WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:39:10 1 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:34.679 Hello, and we are coming to you live through your earholes. 2 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:44.460 This is the 1st podcast for Flight through Entirety, where we're going to be going through the entire duration of Doctor Who season by season. 3 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.579 And as this is the 1st podcast, this is episode zero. 4 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.820 My name's Brendan, and I will be one of your presenters. 5 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:51.960 Hello, I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:55.679 And I'm Richard breaking the binary duality. 7 00:00:55.859 --> 00:00:57.899 What being third? 8 00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.219 Just because we're starting at zero. 9 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:00.659 Yes, hooray. 10 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:06.000 So, um, a little bit about what we are going to be doing on this podcast. 11 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:10.260 Today we are going to be looking at the beginnings of Doctor Who. 12 00:01:10.379 --> 00:01:17.819 So we'll be looking at the pilot episode, the untransmitted pilot, as well as Mark Gatis's and Adventure in Space and Time. 13 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:19.920 I believe Space comes 1st before time. 14 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:20.519 Is that right? 15 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:21.420 Did I get the title right? 16 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:22.500 Do any of this know? 17 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:23.879 I never had Spain in time. 18 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:24.599 Spain in time. 19 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:28.560 An adventure in Spain and time. in gloves. of time. 20 00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:32.519 And then we will be going through Doctor Who season by season after that. 21 00:01:32.579 --> 00:01:33.959 Yes. 22 00:01:34.019 --> 00:01:34.439 Yes. 23 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:35.700 In its entire season. 24 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:37.019 In its entire season. 25 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:38.159 You know you want to. 26 00:01:38.459 --> 00:01:42.840 We're not dry and without alcohol. feel free to start before us. 27 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:46.079 Yes, we haven't had alcohol, but we have had cake. 28 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:48.239 Yes, that's something of the cake. 29 00:01:48.299 --> 00:01:53.400 We are recording this live from the sofa of Reasonable Comfort Newtown Branch. 30 00:01:53.400 --> 00:02:02.159 And to set the scene for you, the coffee table we are recording on is covered in cake crumbs, a William Hartnell action figure. 31 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:08.400 A William Hartnell TARDIS, which I'm told is quite inaccurate outer scale size wise. 32 00:02:08.460 --> 00:02:09.719 It is not anatomically correct. 33 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:16.680 And just force me incongruity. some Steed and Mrs. Peel comics based on the Avengers. 34 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:17.580 Avengers. 35 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:24.419 It is a Fonaguchi coffee table for people who are fond of the bleep your Naguchi coffee table website. 36 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:27.360 We urge you to go and have a look after you've enjoyed this podcast. 37 00:02:27.419 --> 00:02:29.639 I never knew it was phone again. 38 00:02:29.699 --> 00:02:31.439 I never knew it was a phone, a Gucci. 39 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:32.699 All of this will end up on a cutting. 40 00:02:32.819 --> 00:02:35.400 Yeah, yeah. post, I think probably. 41 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:47.340 So where we're going to start from is having a look at some extracts from the original pitch documents for Doctor Who. 42 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:52.439 So we're going back roughly to the middle of 1963. 43 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:53.819 Where were you? 44 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.199 Where were any of us? 45 00:02:55.259 --> 00:02:56.879 None of us was born. 46 00:02:56.939 --> 00:02:59.580 I think outside time and space. 47 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:01.259 No adventures had been had so far. 48 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:03.240 I think my parents were 14. 49 00:03:03.419 --> 00:03:06.900 So that's um, that's where I was. 50 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:08.400 That's where I was. 51 00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:10.199 So where are you getting these from? 52 00:03:10.259 --> 00:03:13.080 Is this robbed the BBC? 53 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.900 I have I've ransacked the biggest thing. 54 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:29.219 For the lead up to Doctor Who's anniversary last year, the Doctor Who news website actually did a 30 part series on the genesis of Doctor Who and part of that was looking at some of the original pitch documents. 55 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:30.060 Did you read that? 56 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:30.659 Did you read it? 57 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:31.979 I didn't read all of it. 58 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:32.580 I skimmed. 59 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:34.800 I kind of felt like I ought to be reading. 60 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:37.500 Yes, but I couldn't really bring myself to do it. 61 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:41.879 So if any writers of that rather wonderful 30 part series, It was great. 62 00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:42.960 I didn't miss a word. 63 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.919 I didn't miss a word either because I didn't try to read all of them. 64 00:03:46.979 --> 00:03:56.159 Now, I just want to, 1st of all, relate what the series was originally going to be about and get your opinion on it, gentlemen. 65 00:03:56.219 --> 00:04:07.139 It was originally going to be a series called The Troubleshooters with a team of a young man and a young woman and an older man. 66 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:14.939 There was no teenage girl or child because it was believed that they didn't command the attention of anyone older than themselves in the audience. 67 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:23.819 So you had an older scientist, um, an older man being, a man in his late 40s was defined as older in the document. 68 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.060 And in real life, in those days, in real life. 69 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:29.220 People didn't make it past the 50 line. 70 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:36.839 That's very true It sounds like a mashup of Newman's Avengers pitch that he'd just done with ITV. 71 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:37.860 Do you think that might have been? 72 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:40.139 I think that's part of the storm of it. 73 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:49.920 Well, no, I gathered that it was Newman who kind of actually vetoed it and just sort of said that a group of scientists wouldn't really need, you know, the doctor character to tell them things. 74 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:51.899 Or, indeed, young people. 75 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:53.639 Yeah, well, I mean, I gather that was it. 76 00:04:53.699 --> 00:04:59.399 They go through the pitch document in the, is it the origins documentary on the edge of destruction? 77 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:00.540 DVD. 78 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:07.319 And it seemed that Newman wanted the teenage girl and Newman didn't like the idea of the scientists. 79 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:08.339 He kind of vetoed it. 80 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.699 But it's obviously a place where Doctor Who eventually ends up going. 81 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.819 I mean, in the 70s, that's actually pretty much the premise, isn't it? 82 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:26.639 You've got, they're not a group of scientists, but it's a sort of troubleshooting group that the doctor advises and he's a bit older than in his 40s, but he's not the old man that aren't always. 83 00:05:26.699 --> 00:05:36.120 It's interesting that they vetoed it because it's still very much the post-war, the future looking post-festival of Britain way of seeing, we're still part of an organisation. 84 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:40.860 We're still Britain and we have something of an empire and we're still recognising structure and organisation. 85 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:50.939 But the thing that, like, the reason I reckon that Doctor Who did so well right at the time, I guess we'll get into that in a bit, is that it broke the mould and it broke it on every single line. 86 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:56.519 It didn't allow for anything except maybe the tradition of C.S. Lewis. 87 00:05:56.579 --> 00:06:00.660 And Huxley were instrumental in this, of the talented amateur. 88 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:08.699 The man who exists outside of structure and outside of, well, conformity and. 89 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.759 And does his own thing. 90 00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:13.379 And muddles through. 91 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:20.639 There's a great tradition in British writing, British fantasy writing, indeed. that kind of that kind of character. 92 00:06:20.699 --> 00:06:28.139 We wouldn't have had anything like that if it had been the troubleshooters that would have been unit and it would have been the unit adventures, yeah, by some other means. 93 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:37.379 And when you sort of look at TV, English TV in the late 60s, early 70s, there were a succession of series like that, the persuaders. 94 00:06:37.379 --> 00:06:40.439 Yes, but all on the road. 95 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:41.699 All on the rival network. 96 00:06:41.699 --> 00:06:45.660 And made for the American market who were set up for that kind of... 97 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:48.420 And arguably not as successful as Doctor Who. 98 00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:55.740 Or indeed the Avengers, which they were really trying to get on the back of since they had done so well in the US. 99 00:06:55.860 --> 00:07:03.959 Yeah, and I think it does come back to what you were saying in that part of the appeal of Doctor Who, and certainly part of the appeal of the Avengers. 100 00:07:04.019 --> 00:07:12.899 Most of the most of the Avengers is you have at least one major character who is not a trained professional. exists outside of the normative structures. 101 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:19.680 We don't really know who he is, where he's from, who he works for, who he answers to, most importantly, what he's going to do next. 102 00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:26.040 And that brings us very neatly to the point where, as you alluded to, Nathan, Sidney Newman, Z. No, I don't want this. 103 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:27.420 This is this is safe. 104 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:30.899 I want something risky and out there. 105 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:44.819 And so we then got the famous pitch document which included characters such as Cliff, Biddy, and Lola, McGiven, Lola, McGovern, played by Oona Stuff, and the red double-decker bus. 106 00:07:46.139 --> 00:07:48.060 But that's enough now. 107 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:49.139 Iris wild time. 108 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:50.699 I love that. 109 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:54.779 No, I was referring back to Summer Holiday, Cliff Richard's movie. 110 00:07:54.899 --> 00:07:55.259 Yes, sorry. 111 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:58.740 With the double-decker bus that went over a cliff. 112 00:07:58.740 --> 00:07:59.459 Or is that the young ones? 113 00:07:59.459 --> 00:08:00.240 The young ones. 114 00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:03.600 They did have a picture of Cliff Richard in the origins documentary, which is... 115 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:06.000 Yes, well, that's where Cliff gets his name from. 116 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:20.399 And then they decided, well, actually, no, Cliff Cliff has gone a bit past being popular with teenagers and is now a symbol for being sort of unpopular with teenagers and people trying to be cool with teenagers will mention Cliff Richard. 117 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:28.800 So they were still going to call him Cliff for a while and actually have it as a character point that Biddy, later Susan, would kind of be. 118 00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:30.959 Oh, you think you're so cool being Cliff. 119 00:08:31.019 --> 00:08:31.620 You're not cool. 120 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:32.639 Cliff's not cool anymore. 121 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:35.159 And then they came to their census and did they? 122 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:36.120 He gets replaced by Ian. 123 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:37.019 He gets replaced by Ian. 124 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.639 Dances in a very stylish way throughout the show, particularly a chase episode one. 125 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:43.080 And you know what? 126 00:08:43.139 --> 00:08:50.940 Having been a supervising teacher at a 7th form disco, I have to say that, yes, teachers do dance like that. 127 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:52.379 That's good, that's good. 128 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:57.779 There will be a gift of this, a comedy podcast for your entertainment pleasure. 129 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:04.200 Something I really wanted to pick up from this pitch document is The Secret of Doctor Who. 130 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:06.600 Are we familiar with this gentle look? 131 00:09:06.659 --> 00:09:09.179 In his own day, somewhere in our future? 132 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:15.120 He decided to search for a time or for a society or for a physical condition which is ideal. 133 00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:17.700 Well, he did share, too, digs with Charles Hortrait. 134 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:19.620 And having found it to stay there. 135 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:23.700 He stole the machine and set forth on his quest. 136 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:28.500 He is the extension of the scientist who has opted out, but opted farther out than ours can do. 137 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:33.480 One symptom is his hatred for scientists, inventors, improvers. 138 00:09:33.539 --> 00:09:37.740 He can get into a rare paddy when faced with a caveman trying to event the wheel. 139 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.919 And this then developed into an idea that... 140 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:49.080 The doctors or rather Doctor Who's ultimate ambition is actually to stop technological progress wherever he sees it. 141 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:56.580 In order that his own future, which is highly cop part mentalized and highly mechanised, will never exist. 142 00:09:57.899 --> 00:10:01.019 Yeah, no, it's a terrible idea, isn't it, really? 143 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:07.259 I mean, stealing the, stealing the TARDIS obviously uh, makes its way into the series a few years later. 144 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:13.139 But again, I remember that Newman's reaction to this was that he didn't want the doctor to be a reactionary. 145 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.940 You know, I mean, the doctor just would have been politically horrifying had that been the case. 146 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:21.840 I mean, I guess there's sort of some sense of, I mean, they say dropping out. 147 00:10:21.899 --> 00:10:29.159 So maybe that's a sort of leftist hippie reaction to progress or something, but it just would have made him monstrous, I think. 148 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:35.519 I think we've got to look at, we're not going to get to the dialects as a teaser, their kids, till the next one of these. 149 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:49.080 But we need to look in context of the Bay of Pigs and Kennedy being really the only face against which the Western world was facing off Khrushchev and the bomb, and it was a very real thing. 150 00:10:49.139 --> 00:10:53.460 There were kids were hiding behind the sofa, but they weren't doing it behind Doctor Who. 151 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:55.019 They were doing it at the 6 o'clock news. 152 00:10:55.019 --> 00:11:00.720 Because those bombs were about to go off and that's certainly what children at school, at Susan's age, were believing. 153 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:07.919 So you're saying that that, the idea of a doctor who prevents that kind of future from happening by being a bit of a Ludd eyes. 154 00:11:07.980 --> 00:11:24.360 I'm feeling that where would that have come from, but other than saying technology was a dual-edged sword very much for Britain at the time, it was they were seeing their way out of economic turpitude, but also seeing where it was spinning out of control. 155 00:11:24.419 --> 00:11:33.179 I guess that you do later in the program get, you know, the Doctor Who digs at computers, you know, who says negative things about them. 156 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:40.259 They're, you know, something in the robot about them being sort of sophisticated idiots. 157 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.820 You do get that, don't you? 158 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:48.120 even with pert wheat, but that seems to be once we move into the 70s and you've got the ecological viewpoint that started to come into it. 159 00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:53.879 Doesn't Trout and hate computers in... 160 00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:56.940 And actually, even... 161 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:11.220 Even William Hartnell says, in the full 1st season, which we'll be covering in the next episode in the Keys of Mariners, he says, I do not believe machines were made to govern man. machines can set laws, but man has to administer them. 162 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:22.740 So that, I mean, I think that sort of marries the 2 ideas of that he's not anti-technology, but he does not want technology taking over every aspect. 163 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:24.840 Yeah, that's a weird one, isn't it? 164 00:12:24.899 --> 00:12:34.620 I mean, we'll get to that next time, but that only gets sort of tacked on the end of episode 6 and they all seem sort of quite happy to reinstate the scary brain. 165 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:36.179 Mind controlling computer. 166 00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:38.759 Which, because it's written by Terry Nation, is a brilliant idea. 167 00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:44.639 Do you know, I'm the only person that I've ever met who loves Keys of Mariners to Dare. 168 00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:46.200 I quite enjoy it. it's fun. 169 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:49.740 Anyway, we're getting we're getting off topic. 170 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:51.419 As happens with Doctor Who. 171 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.299 We're going to be talking about the actual pilot itself now. 172 00:12:54.360 --> 00:13:09.419 For those of you who don't know, the 1st episode of Doctor Who was, in fact, recorded twice, and the 1st recording, which was beset with technical problems, but also had some very different characterisation and performances of its leads, was rejected, rerecorded later. 173 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:17.519 And Richard, I believe you've got some things you want to say on the characterisation of Susan in the pilot, because she is very different to what we eventually see. 174 00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:20.279 She and Bailey are both very different, aren't they? 175 00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:22.500 And at cross purposes. 176 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:25.200 Do you want to talk about the doctor first? 177 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:26.820 Or do you want to talk about Susan? 178 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:28.620 I think let's go with Susan. 179 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.299 Because she is the title character. 180 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:40.860 She is, and she is an unearthly child, but watching it from our perspective and thinking, where we are now with however many years since the show's rebooted. 181 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:53.340 And with Russell, Russell T. Davis, when he was brought back the series and called his 1st episode Rose, he said, I was never very interested in the character or the role of the doctor. 182 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:55.500 It was the companion who was significant for me. 183 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:59.519 That's why my premiere episode is called Rose, not Doctor Who. 184 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.759 Um, and we have it right from the beginning. 185 00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:09.240 My strong feeling watching this again is that Carol Anne Ford is Russell T. Davis in apotheosis. 186 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.159 And Russell, you'd look great in that dress. 187 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.740 If you're watching, if you're listening now, I'd love to see it. 188 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:17.639 I really thought I was watching watching a fan. 189 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:24.120 And a fan from our time, not a fan contemporaneous with the production. 190 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:28.080 It's called an unearthly child, but it could have also been called A Little Queer. 191 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:39.840 And when I say that, I mean, not just the queerness and oddness of Susan herself, but the juxtaposition of her inner story set in the time. 192 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.519 She's a fan from now. 193 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:48.299 She's interested in history, she's interested in science, gobbled. she's a geek. 194 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:48.960 She a nerd. 195 00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:51.000 She's not a kid of the 60s. 196 00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:51.659 They did exist. 197 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.679 They just didn't have, we didn't even have the comfort of a word fan back then. 198 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:59.580 I think she would have stood out just as much as any science fiction fan did. 199 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.360 She's us watching the show, a box within a box within a box. 200 00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:10.440 You see, I guess, I guess when they replace her with Vicky, again, you know, spoiler alert for a few episodes, for a few episodes. 201 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:11.759 For those of you who haven't seen that. 202 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:12.720 Yeah, sorry. 203 00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:18.659 Um, uh, that Vicky is very much more contemporaneous, and she is actually much more hip. 204 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.120 Which is funny because her character is from the future. 205 00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:23.340 But she's a Mersey beat girl. 206 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.080 Yeah, she would have... 207 00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:27.240 Yeah, it's sort of a modern characterisation. 208 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:31.259 It's kind of saying that we're not going to change that much in 500 years. 209 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:39.179 Teenagers are still going to be these excitable, enthusiastic, plucky, young people. 210 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.580 But she's also kind of cool and fashionable. 211 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:48.960 There is the, the Xander for Lyon in the, in his review of the chase where he, you know, she's much hipper than the Beatles. 212 00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:50.519 You know, she hears the Beatles. 213 00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:52.379 They're playing classical music. 214 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.320 You know, she's she is just much more hip and up to date. 215 00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:56.940 But Susan's not like that. 216 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.740 I mean, she's just strange. 217 00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:05.700 And in the pilot, like, I'm not sure that she's vastly different, like her portrayal is vastly different. 218 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:14.519 But the one scene where it did strike me was the scene where she's trying to persuade the doctor, you know, to let Cliff and Lola go. 219 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:23.460 And, um, uh, rather than the sort of panicky, you know, pleading Susan that we get in the transmitted version. 220 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:29.460 I think she is a little bit more distant and a little bit more alien and a little bit more in control. 221 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:35.340 In the pilot, most definitely. in her quasi-futuristic outfit. 222 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.960 Yes And when in above push... push their way into the Tartars. 223 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.360 The doctor barely interacts with them at all. 224 00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:43.559 He just sort of dismisses them. 225 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:46.500 But it's Susan saying things like, you don't know what you've done coming here. 226 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.759 It's not fearful. 227 00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.639 It's, I don't know what's going to happen next. 228 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:51.360 Isn't that exciting? 229 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:53.460 Yeah, you've broken the 4th wall, kids. 230 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:55.679 And the kids are actually the adults now. 231 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.840 Yeah, yeah, you're through the looking glass. 232 00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:58.259 Yeah. 233 00:16:58.259 --> 00:16:58.679 Yeah. 234 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:00.600 You're in our world, in our fanzine. 235 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:02.460 This is our domain. 236 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:02.759 Yeah. 237 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:08.039 And she only becomes worried and panicky when people start getting hurt. 238 00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:12.240 And it's all, it's... 239 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.339 Well, when he elects... on the console. 240 00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:16.920 And it's kind of... which is a nice touch, isn't it? 241 00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:19.319 It's the 1st time that you actually get physicality. 242 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:36.119 It's the 1st time that these people from the real world go through the junkyard, if you like the junking of old BBC drama and all the tropes that they pass through the portal of security with the word police on the outside into the world of television itself, you're gone inside the TV box now, kids. 243 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:45.900 It's this weird tension of Susan's character in that she's, she is mature and she is intelligent, but there are things she doesn't know, as we've already discovered. 244 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.599 She's being playful with Ian and Barbara. 245 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:50.039 You don't know what you've done coming here. 246 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:53.460 I don't know what's going to happen now, but as soon as someone gets hurt. 247 00:17:53.579 --> 00:18:05.519 She becomes concerned, and that is a very childish, childlike, I should say, quality, because, you know, children, it's all fun and games until someone falls over and gets hurt. 248 00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:12.599 So she does have this childlike quality, even though she's very confident and self-assured. 249 00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:16.319 And then something happens to push her out of her comfort zone. 250 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:17.400 So Ian's been pushed. 251 00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:19.500 Everyone's been pushed out of their comfort zone so far. 252 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:21.839 Like the doctor doesn't want Ian and Barbara there. 253 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.440 Ian and Barbara are suddenly in this huge spaceship that they don't understand. 254 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:30.240 Susan is the last person who's comfortable, relatively comfortable with the situation. 255 00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:32.940 She's just like, oh, this is a minor irritation. 256 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.279 No, it'll be fine because no one will believe what they say. 257 00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:40.920 But then suddenly, oh, wait, no, what we're taking off, you've electrocuted him, you've hurt him. 258 00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:41.759 Everyone's knocked out. 259 00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:42.900 What the hell is going on? 260 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:53.759 But in the broadcast version, all of those things in that line, you know, you don't know what you've done coming here is all delivered in a much more sort of panicky way. 261 00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:55.140 As soon as they come in. 262 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.720 She's she's panicking and she's worried. 263 00:18:57.779 --> 00:19:07.019 You know, you, um, in the transmitted version, you lose that sense of her, what Tom Baker would like to do of not reacting like a human being. 264 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:07.799 Exactly. 265 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:20.160 It's the beat in the drama where you get in dramatic speak, with the pause, the beat in the drama, where you bring the visual bacteria reality that these characters actually have feelings and can be hurt. 266 00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:22.500 This is where it becomes truly dramatic. 267 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.119 It's for real. 268 00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:32.339 So do we think that after Newman saw the pilot, he said, you know, no, the girl, she needs to be more stupid? 269 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:42.240 I think that's the sentiment, but I think I think he had introduced her to the concept in order that children would have an identification character. 270 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:49.019 And so he kind of said she needs to be more identifiable and I think it went too far in the other direction. 271 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:55.619 She became identifiable, but also she became someone that I think children would have been watching thinking, oh, I'd be more brave than her. 272 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:57.779 Yeah, which is unfortunate. 273 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:03.299 I think they watered it down and made it something comfortable and familiar when it wasn't going to be that at all. 274 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:12.299 And, you know, even as early in the Daleks, you can see Carol Anne Ford's performance, perhaps separating itself from the centre. 275 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.720 She really did a appear to be the centre of the show in that 1st episode. 276 00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:23.339 I think it really takes only till episode 2 when she's having a giant panic because the doctor's gone off for a smoke somewhere, if you know what I mean? 277 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.359 She's rolling around on the ground and that kind of thing. 278 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:30.299 I mean, she really, you know, loses it straight away. 279 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:42.839 But there is something very centred and something very kind of alien about her performance in that scene, you know, in a way that we don't really see very much until the sensorizes, probably. 280 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:51.839 What I found so interesting about Susan is Ian's line when he says she's absolutely brilliant at some things and excruciating at the rest. 281 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:57.599 Now, we're not talking about acting, we're talking about the character and how she plays it. 282 00:20:57.660 --> 00:20:58.980 I think she's actually terrific. 283 00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:07.140 And the only reason her acting, as some people have criticised Caroline Ford, further on is that she's bored and feels left out and takes it personally. 284 00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:08.819 You know, they're sensitive people. 285 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:09.839 It's going to come across. 286 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:11.519 You can see Billy doing it later on. 287 00:21:11.579 --> 00:21:17.039 I don't think it's purely because of his arteriosclerosis that he starts to fluff his lines. 288 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:18.779 I think it's because he's utterly miserable. 289 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:21.960 If someone's unhappy, they're not going to do a good job. 290 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:25.380 Well, and that's the adventures in space and time take on it as well. 291 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:25.740 Exactly. 292 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:30.420 Like once his friends leave, one's verity and Cliff and Lola are out the door. 293 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.140 Do you know what I mean? 294 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:32.640 He's... 295 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:34.019 Clifford, all around the door. 296 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:42.839 There's Ian, it's a good point because Ian follows that up when he talks about the character, about Susan in the classroom and then he says of himself, I take things as they come. 297 00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:49.079 And I think that's quite an interesting point going to where the series was going to go with these characters. 298 00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:57.779 Ian and Barbara represent order, structure, and the Newtonian reason, the universe of absolutes and constants. 299 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:06.900 Whereas Susan drawing away with her Rorschach blot and her little hexagon is extra dimensionality. 300 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:19.740 She mentions currency and alchemy of change when she talks about the decimal system or can't we just chuck this red to blue thing and start making acid tabs and hootch juice and get onto something more interesting. 301 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:28.019 You wanted to make bombs. make acid bomb, acid bombs, and go and join Abby Hoffman and try and raise the pentagon. 302 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.240 In preparation of this podcast. 303 00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:37.680 I did wonder how the scene of Susan getting the French Revolution book would be different if it had been Ace. 304 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:40.140 Oh, what a beautiful idea. 305 00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:43.559 And, you know, you could have had the little radio playing some Kef drum solo. 306 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:45.779 I think Susan should have been ace. 307 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.200 Yes. 308 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.259 Well, I mean, there's a deliberate thing though, isn't there? 309 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:58.920 She's from London and it's 16 and she doesn't know the decimal system either, of course, Ace doesn't know how many shillings to a pound anymore than Susan does. 310 00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:18.599 Actually, in the pilot, not many people know this, but I'm a little bit of a Doctor Who nerd and it's always annoyed me enormously that the French Revolution book that Ace gets doesn't have a white paper dust cover, like the one in the brand in the transmitted version. 311 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:19.619 And I know I'm not alone. 312 00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:24.599 But the one in the pilot doesn't have that dust cover either. 313 00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:31.440 So my theory is that Asa actually comes from a parallel universe where the pilot is canon. 314 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.779 Oh, that's kind of beautiful. 315 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:34.380 What do you mean? 316 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:35.220 Yeah, like that. 317 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.519 I think the pilot has to become because drug references abound. 318 00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:45.000 We can't forget that the vortex when the TARDIS takes off comes spewing out of Susan's left nostril. 319 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:47.759 It really does. 320 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.720 And her eyes go... 321 00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:53.160 Her eyes go bling. 322 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:57.960 It's an interesting thing again about her that she can't actually focus on anyone in the pilot. 323 00:23:58.019 --> 00:23:59.339 Her eyes dart about left to right. 324 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.420 She also gets those strange close-up camera things too, doesn't she? 325 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:17.819 Like we're deliberately made uncomfortable with her just because she's this giant face in kind of, you know, extreme close-up whenever she kind of appears, everyone else is in sort of normal, medium close-up shots. 326 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.500 But Susan, Susan's face is there, you know, right in front of her. 327 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:31.380 So I think that, you know, there is that attempt to make her kind of unearthly, unearthly and alien, which in those days meant foreign. 328 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.779 It's not just the Vidal Sassoon haircut. 329 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:45.240 And the Corage style dress that she's wearing, the camera technique that you're talking about is very much God-ars of Gene Seaberg in a bouffe du souffle or Breathless just a few years before. 330 00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:55.980 I believe that Susan is there to represent the Nouvelle Vague young woman who is very much not at this time, not at our generation, completely different with a twiggy haircut. 331 00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:57.359 And it's all there. 332 00:24:57.420 --> 00:25:00.539 And she likes walking home in the English form. 333 00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:01.619 She must be foreign. 334 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.359 She must be, which, of course, Ian had to stop her saying that because that's a filthy word foreign, you know. 335 00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:11.460 Well, I mean, they did get rid of that for the broadcast version because she likes walking alone in the dark. 336 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:12.420 It's mysterious. 337 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.680 Yeah, it's mysterious. 338 00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:15.180 She might need to avoid. 339 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:17.460 Something would be so normal. 340 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.500 And therefore unlikely. 341 00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:26.279 That's quite interesting about her physicality, is that she only sits down. 342 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.380 We only see her sitting down. 343 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:36.180 Um once. aside from the flashbacks when she's in class and, you know, so obviously she's going to be sitting down and even then she jumps up. 344 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.700 Of course, the decimal system hasn't started yet. 345 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.599 She jumps up out of her seat practically into the camera and it's a really big moment. 346 00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:44.640 The only time she sits down. 347 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.259 Aside from that is when she's doing her raw shot ink block. 348 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:56.220 She sits down, she's relaxed and she just sort of starts putting ink on the paper, putting ink on the paper, folds it, and it makes 2 lines. 349 00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:04.019 She then encloses the 2 lines in a hexagon and suddenly she's terrified of what she's just done and sort of scrunches it up. 350 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.779 And it's never elaborated as to what you do. 351 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:13.859 In fact, doesn't the documentary, the Origins documentary has marginal note from Sidney Newman saying what the hell does the girl draw? 352 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.119 Yeah, what is she doing? 353 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:16.619 But I think it's very interesting. 354 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:18.839 That happens. 355 00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:20.339 A, she gets scared by what she's doing. 356 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:25.019 So it's like she's not aware of what she's doing, and it only happens when she relaxes, when she sits down. 357 00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.420 The rest of the time she's on her feet, she's on her guard. 358 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:35.640 When she lets her guard down, this strange thing happens when she draws a simple shape, which I always have thought, represents the TARDIS console. 359 00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:37.200 Oh, beautiful. 360 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:43.140 With the 2 lines being the central column, but just it's kind of like just drawing it. 361 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.019 Oh my god, if someone finds this, I'm going to be in trouble. 362 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:57.960 And that is mirrored later on because in the transmitted version, the doctor says, I can't let them go because they'll tell everyone about us in the in the pilot, rather. 363 00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:04.680 He says, I can't let them go because they'll tell everyone about the science here and the world isn't ready for it. 364 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:05.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 365 00:27:05.940 --> 00:27:07.140 He's worried about changing time. 366 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:12.480 And he doesn't have examples like giving Napoleon an iPod or something, like, what is it? 367 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:13.019 I can't remember. 368 00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.380 Yes, I think that's a goon episode giving Napoleon an inflatable. 369 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:17.759 Yeah, yeah, something like that. 370 00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:24.000 It's, it's, some sort of unmechanized culture giving, giving them the steam engine or something like that. 371 00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:26.880 Steam engine, for God's sake. 372 00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:28.259 It's a joy. 373 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:31.980 It will lead to steampunk and ruinous fiction. and tea. 374 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.119 It will lead to tea. 375 00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:37.920 It's a lovely thing that they're referencing so there's a lot of cleverness in this pilot. 376 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:47.279 I reckon that the notion of the Rorschach test goes back to Jung's writings and the unveiling of the unconscious and the shadow self. 377 00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:53.759 Perhaps it's that Susan is also saying you'll get to see inside my head if they see this. 378 00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:59.400 I'm starting to reveal some of them, which means something to her and of course, nothing to us because we can't read it, but, you know. 379 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:09.059 To segue into something about the doctor, sort of in his 1st scene when he's talking to Ian and Barbara in the junkyard. 380 00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:22.799 Something I found very interesting, and I hadn't noticed until I rewatched the pilot to talk about it, is that the bit where he's talking to Ian, do you think it's reasonable that a young girl would be locked up in there? 381 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:29.099 He takes Ian away from Barbara, and the thing is, up until that point, Barbara's been the one challenging him more. 382 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:37.980 So it's this very odd thing of, you know, 1963, the Avengers has been on, on a Blackman's been in the Avengers for about a year. 383 00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:44.039 So one of the very strong, 1st very strong female characters on British television. 384 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.759 It's like the doctors kind of going, right, she's the smart one. 385 00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:50.339 But he's a man, he's in control. 386 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.019 So if I convince him to go. 387 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.740 Get her, like not talk to her, I'll talk to him. 388 00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:56.880 If he goes, she'll go. 389 00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:01.259 Because he know, he seems to kind of go, right, I can't challenge Barbara. 390 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.119 She's very feisty. 391 00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:05.460 So I'll challenge the man because he seems like an idiot. 392 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:15.299 That was the impression I got from that scene, which is quite subversive because yes, you know, it's the doctor dismissing a woman, but it's the doctor dismissing the woman because she's too clever. 393 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.799 It's very interesting. 394 00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:18.119 She is too clever. 395 00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:20.160 I mean, she's terribly clever. 396 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:31.079 One of the great pleasures last night, watching the documentary was just the DVD menu for the edge of destruction, which has Barbara calling the doctor a stupid old man. 397 00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:37.380 Yes, you know, explaining what he owes them and she really is just truly spectacular. 398 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:39.539 And the performance is fully formed here. 399 00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.319 Do you know what I mean? 400 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.859 She's instantly superb even in the pilot. 401 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:48.779 I'd say she is the one person out of the 4 of them whose performance does not change. 402 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.059 How do you think Ian changes? 403 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:57.180 Something I felt watching Adventure in Space and Time is when they've got Ian recording the pilot. 404 00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:59.400 He's very stiff and wooden. 405 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.539 And I thought, that's very unfair. 406 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:07.079 And then watching the pilot's like, actually, yeah, William Russell seems very uncomfortable in that pilot recording. 407 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:10.380 He's very muted compared to how he would later perform. 408 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:19.920 Whereas, you know, the doctor and Susan are brought down a few notches, Ian seems to be brought up a few notches, but Jacqueline Hill is just perfect all the way through. 409 00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:25.619 Just to warn you, folks, for the 1st few episodes of the podcast, you're going to hear a lot of praise for Jacqueline Hill. 410 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:30.480 So if you're not about, if you're not a Barbara fan, how are you still alive? 411 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:36.779 He is a bit, it's true, he is a bit stiff in his 1st performance. 412 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.940 But one of his opening lines is we're looking for a young girl. 413 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:46.619 To which Billy doesn't say, well, that's nice and normal, I suppose, unlike keeping them in this cupboard. 414 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.500 Oh, look, here's one I prepared earlier. 415 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:57.119 Well, it is funny in that there seems to be this undercurrent throughout the whole thing of... 416 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:04.559 I suppose child neglect and child mistreatment because Barbara says... 417 00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:06.960 Well, that wasn't Kathy come home? 418 00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:07.200 No. 419 00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:07.859 What year is that? 420 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:14.160 We keep referring to Philip Sandeth's blog on this as well, and we'll see a note, of course, which is... 421 00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:23.160 And he cites Kathy come home as being as potent a force for radical social change on British media as anything of the time. 422 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:28.619 I don't think Doctor Who quite reaches those levels of social really. 423 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:32.819 No, no, despite the fact that we have a neglected 16, 15-year-old in a cupboard. 424 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.319 But what Barbara says, which I found very interesting, and I hadn't really listened to the words before. 425 00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:50.759 She says to Ian, sort of I want to push this whole thing further about her living in a junkyard with her grandpa who doesn't like strangers, but I don't, she says, I don't want to get the girl in trouble. 426 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:59.039 And it's like, okay, how would pushing her specialising in history get her in trouble? 427 00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:03.900 How how would contacting her grandfather get her in trouble? 428 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:07.559 And it's a sort of slightly sinister undertone. 429 00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.240 And then they go spying on her. 430 00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:13.740 And then, as you say, Richard, she gets locked in a cupboard. 431 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:23.519 We've also got to look at social tropes at the time and structures and that, you know, a child really didn't have very much say and really didn't have a voice at all. 432 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:29.759 I think Doctor Who is great, and the reason we love it and still do, is that it's a palmsist. 433 00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:31.500 It's a cypher for everything else. 434 00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:32.700 It can be anything else. 435 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:33.599 You can apply it. 436 00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:42.900 You can see it through the window of the TV to as a filter for every other production and every other story and it can go into any other story. 437 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.759 Nathan, you said something interesting about it. 438 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:48.000 What was it, Sanderford? 439 00:32:48.059 --> 00:32:49.079 TV. 440 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:56.519 It's so easy to get me too confused. in that when Billy talks about how the TARDIS works and... 441 00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:58.380 Yeah, well, that it works via television. 442 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.000 It actually strikes me, is that in the pilot? 443 00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:04.259 You know, in the broadcast thing he goes, you've discovered television, haven't you? 444 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:08.160 And he explains that that's how the TARDIS works. 445 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.819 You can get a small building on television into a small box. 446 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:22.980 And of course, you know, the, um, the title sequence has always been sort of, I mean, it's literally a camera pointing at a TV monitor and that's how the doctor travels through time, isn't it? 447 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.660 You know, it is the power of television. 448 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.839 And that's pretty much what you were saying earlier, I think. 449 00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.720 Yeah, anyway, weren't we going with that? 450 00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:32.220 I don't know. 451 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.000 What about the doctor? 452 00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.740 The descriptor. 453 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:39.539 I always heard about his performance in the pilot before I 1st saw it was nasty. 454 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:40.920 Hmm. 455 00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:45.779 And I don't necessarily think he's any nastier in the pilot than years later. 456 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.259 He's colder, certainly, but I'm not sure if I'd use the word nasty. 457 00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.680 He's he's uh, he's colder. 458 00:33:52.799 --> 00:34:05.099 And I think the big, I mean, the big difference between the pilot and the transmitted version as far as Hartnell's performance is concerned, is that scene where they're confronting him in the junkyard. 459 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:17.159 And in the transmitted version, you know, he's going from object to object, he's picking up a frame and, you know, like and looking at things and going, hmm, you know, and throwing them around and saying, oh, I meant to get that fixed up and stuff. 460 00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:23.400 And so he's not really paying attention to Ian and Barbara in that sort of irritating way. 461 00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:25.980 And he seems vaguely amused by them. 462 00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:30.000 Whereas he's very definitely irritated and angry at them. 463 00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:40.500 And like, I think that shift, you know, that in the transmitted version, he really is the doctor, even as we know him today. 464 00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:43.500 You know, he's sort of slightly distracted. 465 00:34:43.559 --> 00:35:03.000 He's amused his, you know, irritating, um, whereas the kind of, um, angry, you know, um, high-handed sort of doctor that we get in the pilot in that scene at least, um, is very different from what what we eventually end up with, I think. 466 00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:35.760 I think the big difference between what we see with the pilot and Billy's performance further on, and it's also really shown in the origins, Adventures and Time and Space show, is the difference between Billy's generous detachment, of his own feelings, in his performance and the role, and how he softened it, and how, in David Bradley's performance, you've got the actor's sensibility, sensibilities, and the actor's performance. being very much at the forefront. 467 00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:50.460 That's the thing that actually struck me as a bit of a loss or a little bit sad about the Gatus production is that we didn't get to see how good nuanced Billy really was. 468 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.019 We just get the one beat. 469 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:53.099 Sure, it's 90 minutes. 470 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.079 You've just got to get an idea across. 471 00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:56.280 You've got to get the story there. 472 00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:20.159 But the subtleties of the doctors being able to Step back, sometimes be present in others, allow the companions to have the floor, and then come forward radically opposed to the narrative or be a part of it, and not actually knowing which way he was going to go. 473 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.579 Was what made him really interesting and exciting. 474 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:25.860 And I think that really did propel the series. 475 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:29.400 He was very much the outsider at the centre. 476 00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:32.159 And so was Susan in the beginning. 477 00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:33.780 I think the show really lost something. 478 00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:43.019 Perhaps it lost something that really would have made it extraordinary had they just continued with the 2 of them being allowed to be outside their own narrative. 479 00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:53.039 In the end, I guess, as it had to be, only the doctor remained so everyone else had to follow the tropes of drama and be the mum, the dad, or the teenager. 480 00:36:53.880 --> 00:37:07.559 Yeah, yeah, really until, yeah, the mid 70s with Mary Tam, who was allowed to be doctors, but even she decided to leave when her character was being watered down. 481 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:08.280 Exactly. 482 00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:11.639 And in fact, the only, the only really... 483 00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:18.780 The only really naughty actors were gone, got in it, who play with a narrative, a Billy. 484 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.739 It's early Susan and then Tom and then throws it all up in the air. 485 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.760 Yeah, absolutely. 486 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.840 And Katie Manning, obviously. 487 00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:25.800 And Katie Manning, obviously. 488 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:34.920 And very sad, you know, not long before she died, that the only actor who could really, she felt replaced Billy was Tom because he was dangerous. 489 00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:41.820 After all the political politeness had gone, she could say what she wanted to say. 490 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:42.420 Yeah. 491 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:52.739 So now we move on to our 1st award for this podcast, which is the Jenny Laird award, the most puzzling creative choice. 492 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.539 I think that one's rather self-explanatory. 493 00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:02.280 And for me, it's got to be the question, where was David Whittaker in an adventure in space and time. 494 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:06.300 Yeah, I think, I mean, I think the greatest omission of all. 495 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:13.679 I think Gaitus said that he sort of keenly felt the emission of David Whisaker. 496 00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:22.619 Like he acknowledged, I think, publicly that Whittaker deserved to be there, but just said, you know, with kind of collapsing it in, you know, we've got 90 minutes. 497 00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:24.059 We can't. 498 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:26.639 Oh, yeah, it's not like I blame him personally. 499 00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:28.440 What would Whitaker have been doing? 500 00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:30.719 Whittaker would have been doing? 501 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.519 I think some of the Mervyn Pinfield role. 502 00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:35.639 He wouldn't have just been sitting at a table, editing scripts. 503 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.500 Huffing something. 504 00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:38.340 Did he huff things? 505 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.599 Huffing Mercury, probably. 506 00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:41.699 Thing is, even if they just had him in 2 scenes. 507 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:47.099 You know, that would have been better than not having him at all, I think. 508 00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:50.099 Maybe everyone could have mentioned him. 509 00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.480 He could have been like Poochie. 510 00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:54.780 Like when he's not in the room, everyone could have been saying, where's David Whittaker? 511 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.059 Would have done something? 512 00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.219 Yes, that would have been much better. 513 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.920 And the thing is, the man looks amazing. 514 00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.380 He looks like Jeff Tracy in human form. 515 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.739 He's got this wonderful shock of white hair with black eyebrows. 516 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:09.300 Is Alistair Darling? 517 00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.099 He's a badger. 518 00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:11.940 He's a badger. 519 00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:12.840 But a proper darling. 520 00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:14.760 Can I offer an award? 521 00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:15.119 Yes. 522 00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:27.179 I guess the obvious Jenny later award for most puzzling and creative choice in the pilot and the broadcast thing is Susan's hand movements during the during John Smith of the Common Man. 523 00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.820 I mean, that is unearthly. 524 00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:30.420 Do you know what I mean? 525 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.579 But then there's unbelievable. 526 00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:44.699 Again, it's, to me, it's picking up on what the French were doing, God on, then the Nouveau Vag, and you see, that kind of movement is foreign being alien. 527 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:45.780 So everyone's doing it? 528 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.900 Well, well, everyone, if they're called Gen Seaberg, really. 529 00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.000 Coffee shops across Paris. 530 00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:58.380 People are sitting there with a baguette in one hand, a string of onions around their neck. and their hand movements doing this sort of little... 531 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:07.019 We should probably mention that half the wardrobe budget went on for the homosexuals listening at home went on Carol Anne Ford's Vidal Sassoon haircut. 532 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.559 It was apparently the 1st wedge, not wedge. 533 00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:12.239 The 1st wedge scene on TV. 534 00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:22.920 And I think we should also say for anyone worried about the French stereotyping of necklace of onions, I would like to point out that Nathan did not mention wearing a beret. 535 00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:24.539 So we're not about stereotypes at all. 536 00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:25.559 No, no, we're not. 537 00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:26.460 That would be wrong. 538 00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:31.860 And of course, the gloriously titled, what would Stephen Moffatt do? 539 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:41.280 Because I've been thinking to myself, We should look at how Stephen Moffat would approach some of the classic moments in Doctor Who as we look at them going through. 540 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:51.000 And for me, a, you know, a classic moment of this, you could obviously go with walking into the TARDIS, which every subsequent producer has had their way of doing. 541 00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:57.659 And I did actually quite enjoy Stephen Moffat's moment where Jenna Louise Colbert says, it's smaller on the outside. 542 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.980 I thought I thought that was a nice simple inversion. 543 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:12.719 So I'm going to go for the scene in which Susan, who doesn't want to attract any undue attention to herself, immediately acts very strangely in front of her teacher. 544 00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:14.460 I like walking in the English fog. 545 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:30.659 It's mysterious So I'm going to say if Stephen Moffatt were in charge of that, the Susan in that scene is actually from, After Susan has left the TARDIS and she's come back in time in order to get Ian and Barbara interested and pique their curiosity. 546 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.639 Susan's actually already left for the day. 547 00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:34.440 She doesn't want to book on the bloody French Revolution. 548 00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:38.099 She just wants to go home to a space television inside the TARDS. 549 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:40.980 To snug a boy, perhaps. 550 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:42.780 Through a space-time visualiser. 551 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:44.219 Through the space time visualise. 552 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:45.780 Which they don't have yet. 553 00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:50.760 But again, she could have brought, she's Nick's the space-time visualiser, which is why we never see it after the chase. 554 00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:52.619 She's come back, she's put it in the TARVS. 555 00:41:52.679 --> 00:42:00.719 And then she's gone to Coal Hill School to pique Ian and Barbara's interest, which is why when they turn up at the ship, Susan's like, what are you doing here? 556 00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:02.400 I haven't even spoken to you today. 557 00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.199 Get out of my house. 558 00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:09.239 So that's what I think Stephen Moffatt would do if he were given this script. 559 00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:10.320 Okay. 560 00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:11.880 I think he'd kill Ian. 561 00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:12.599 Yeah. 562 00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:14.639 And then bring him back. 563 00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:15.659 Yeah, maybe a couple of times. 564 00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:18.719 Yeah, when he drops the torch, he actually falls over and hits his head. 565 00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:23.219 Yeah, well, maybe Ian sort of magically pregnant in some way. 566 00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:25.980 Would that be a thing as well? 567 00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:26.699 I offer to do that. 568 00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:27.360 Yes, yes. 569 00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:28.739 Yes, I think so. 570 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.420 Ian gets pregnant to a caveman. 571 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:39.599 I can actually see this particular segment of the podcast having a limited future because it seems to me that Moffatt only does about 3 or 4 things. 572 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.719 So, kill them, get pregnant. 573 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:44.519 Cross your own time. 574 00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:45.000 That's it. 575 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.400 Something with statues. 576 00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:53.400 I think it's there's also, you know, the creepy one where the doctor meets his companion as a little girl. 577 00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.099 Yes. 578 00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:57.000 Yes. 579 00:42:57.059 --> 00:42:59.400 It keeps happening and it creeps me out every time. 580 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.280 Anyway, so enough about me. 581 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.539 Okay, so I suppose we're coming to the end now. 582 00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:13.199 But I'd like to hear, gentlemen, if you have any recommendations for our listeners to go out and experience. 583 00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:17.460 Oh, well, I have to I have to plug my own website. 584 00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.079 What is your website, mate? 585 00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.360 So it's the Randomiser.net. 586 00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:28.980 And basically the idea of it is that say you're planning an evening of watching Doctor Who. 587 00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:40.199 Well, you could, you could let, you know, quality or entertainment value dictate what story you end up watching or you could do it completely at random. 588 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:42.539 And that's what the randomiser is for. 589 00:43:42.539 --> 00:43:50.039 So all you do is point your browser at the randomiser.net, and it will pick a Doctor Who story for you at random. 590 00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:50.699 It's very simple. 591 00:43:50.760 --> 00:44:09.659 Although it does have a complicated system of preferences, which allows you to exclude certain doctors or make sure it doesn't pick a story that you've seen before or if you're not keen on loose cannon reconstructions, you can get it to pass over stories that don't exist in their entirety. 592 00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.099 So there you are. 593 00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:17.880 That would might be the only thing that would ever motivate you to watch, uh, you know, time flight or or the dominators. 594 00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:24.360 Uh, uh, but it exists and, and uh, you can follow it on Twitter at uh, DW Randomiser. 595 00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:25.800 Excellent. 596 00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:27.059 Just a quick question. 597 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.579 Have you added Knight of the Doctor to the Paul McGann section? 598 00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:30.360 No, no. 599 00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:30.659 Okay. 600 00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:31.679 It's not canon. 601 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:32.760 It didn't happen. 602 00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:37.320 Shock and horror. 603 00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:40.019 The C word has come up. 604 00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:42.659 Richard said canon before, actually. 605 00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:44.699 I think I'm going to say it a few times an episode. 606 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:47.400 Yeah, yeah, yes, but I agreed with you the 1st time. 607 00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:50.880 Richard, do you have anything for the listeners? 608 00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:58.380 The randomiser for me every time because I was constantly young each time I pressed it, although it would only give me Peter Davidson story. 609 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.780 So obviously it is being run by Valentine Dial. 610 00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:02.760 It's from a darker universe. 611 00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:05.219 It's been possessed by the marlas, I think. 612 00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:05.940 That's the one. 613 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:12.119 I think Paddy Kingsland gets royalties whenever you watch a story with one of his jaunty scores. 614 00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:13.320 That would be it. 615 00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:14.099 I do love it. 616 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:15.900 If only you've got an electric shock every time. 617 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.639 Anyway, sorry. 618 00:45:17.699 --> 00:45:19.139 Yes, but it's live. 619 00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:38.159 Uh, my recommendation, uh, in um, in keeping with the theme of the podcast, is the pre-series Audio Adventures featuring Art Carolan Ford, there have been some companion chronicle set before the series. 620 00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:41.460 One of them is... 621 00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:42.780 Quiz. 622 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.000 Is there Quinnus? 623 00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:46.260 Quinnus. 624 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:47.219 In the 4th universe. 625 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:48.059 Could they go there? 626 00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:50.699 Yes, Quinnus in the 4th universe. in the 4th universe? 627 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:51.960 Written by Mark Platt. 628 00:45:52.019 --> 00:45:53.400 Wow, is it good? 629 00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:54.960 It's quite good, yes. 630 00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:56.579 Almost as good as ghost light. 631 00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.539 So there is the beginning. 632 00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:01.800 Oh, P road spare parts. 633 00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:12.960 There is the beginning, which is, which does actually tie in with where we see Billy in the name of the doctor. 634 00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:28.139 There's even a bit where Susan says, grandfather pushed me into it, pushed me into one of the capsules, and he, he was outside for an awful long time, and then he reached it out and pulled me into a different capsule, because that moment where Clara says, you can take that one, but this one's far more interesting. 635 00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:29.219 So it ties in. 636 00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:32.219 I'm just saying we have to... 637 00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.619 There is Quinus in the 4th universe. 638 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:39.900 There's the Alchemists, which is set in 1930s Berlin. 639 00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.420 I don't even know how these work. 640 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.599 So does Caroline Ford do a comedy Billy Hartnell impersonation? 641 00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:46.199 Is that what happened? 642 00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:48.420 She does a not bad Billy. 643 00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:49.019 She really does? 644 00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:51.119 She gets the tone, right? 645 00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:56.820 More, you know, obviously she can't get a spot on impersonation, but she does get the tone and the mannerisms quite well. 646 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.239 So is it a 1st person narrative told from Susan's point of view? 647 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:01.800 I just know nothing about these. 648 00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:06.840 Yes, the companion chronicles are a 1st person narrative told by the particular companion. 649 00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:13.380 What's slightly different is her story in the destiny of the doctor range. 650 00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.280 Hunters of Earth. 651 00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:18.780 Actually, it's been a few months since I've listened to it, but I believe she told me. 652 00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:19.980 You don't listen to it every week? 653 00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:21.719 I don't listen to it every week, no. 654 00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:23.519 So, yes, pretty much. 655 00:47:23.579 --> 00:47:26.400 It her telling the story in 1st person with one additional voice as well. 656 00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:33.059 So the beginning, for instance, has Terry Malloy as Quadrig of Stoyne, who... 657 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:37.260 He's a timelord technician who's inside the TARDIS when they steal it. 658 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:38.820 Oh, I think I've heard of this. 659 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:40.500 Yes, spoiler alert. 660 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:41.519 It's very good. 661 00:47:41.579 --> 00:47:43.739 Well, that's the 1st 5 minutes. 662 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:43.980 Okay. 663 00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:44.820 So there you go. 664 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:46.199 And that's on the cover. 665 00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:48.179 Okay, all right. 666 00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:49.440 Sorry. all right to me. 667 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:49.980 Go, man. 668 00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:54.420 So yeah, I would recommend those audio adventures. 669 00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:00.059 They're about an hour long, so you can listen to them in the car or on the bus on the train. 670 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:07.500 I wouldn't recommend listening to them on the bike as I do sometimes see other cyclists with their headphones in and then... 671 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.860 That's an age. ironing. ironing is a good time to listen to these. 672 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:12.360 Yes, ironing is. 673 00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:14.699 I was wondering where we were going by mentioning the word. 674 00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:15.659 No, no. 675 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:25.800 It's just a little recommendation for the viewers. that's absolutely right Now, as this is a podcast by fans, we would like to hear from you if you've listened to us. 676 00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:27.179 We hope that someone has. 677 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:37.619 You can actually find our website, flightthroughentirety.com, and we are going to be having a comment section there. 678 00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:40.260 Please write in with any thoughts you have. 679 00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:42.539 Abuse is entirely acceptable. 680 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:43.619 Abuse is entirely. 681 00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:44.820 Almost inevitable, I would think. 682 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.599 Yes, indeed. 683 00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:47.940 It's actually how Richard gets through the week. 684 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.400 Yeah, under a pseudonym. 685 00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:56.820 Mrs. Mary Whitehouse rent has already written some, owns some poems for us, which will be in the next exciting podcast. 686 00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:58.019 Tune in for that. 687 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:12.239 And if there's any topics or observations you have, or if you disagreed with anything we've said, by all means, leave a comment at flightthroughentirety.com, subscribe to the RSS feed there, and you'll be able to get the podcasts direct to you. 688 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:17.219 We will also be on iTunes so you can find us that way. 689 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.800 So just remember, flightthroughentirety.com. 690 00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:33.360 We will have Nathan's Twitter handle there, DW Randomiser, as well as mine, which is critical theory, but instead of the 2nd C in critical, it's a cue. 691 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:36.179 And it's not critical theory then. 692 00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:42.719 Um, Well, quite frankly, I'm considering changing it because it's very hard to explain each time I do have to explain it. 693 00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:47.219 So it may be something completely, I may regenerate it before the next podcast. 694 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:48.900 This is going to be like audio visuals. 695 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:58.739 Our next podcast will hopefully be out in one month's time, and we will be looking at the entirety of William Hartnell's 1st season. 696 00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:03.059 So that is an unearthly child through to the reign of terror. 697 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:12.360 And, well, who knows, by the time we record it, Marco Polo may have been found in a Mormon basement in Hong Kong or somewhere. 698 00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:14.039 They don't have... 699 00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:14.760 Hong Kong. 700 00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:17.340 You tell that to Deborah Watling. 701 00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:18.539 I'm not going to disagree with her. 702 00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:20.880 So I'm going to sign off. 703 00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:28.139 And I would like to thank Richard and Nathan, who may also like to sign off in their own voices as well. 704 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:29.880 Well, it's good night for me. 705 00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:30.840 And it's good night from him. 706 00:50:35.219 --> 00:50:46.619 You have been listening to Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Botomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone, episode zero, A Little Queer, was reported in Newtown, New South Wales, Australia, on Sunday, the 6th of April, 2014. 707 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:53.039 You can find us on our website at flightthroughentirety.com or on Twitter under FTE podcast. 708 00:50:53.099 --> 00:50:56.519 And now I'm off to walking the Australian Sun. 709 00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:57.539 It's mysterious.