WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:02:15

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Hello, and we are coming to you live through your earholes.

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This is the 1st podcast for Flight through Entirety, where we're

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going to be going through the entire duration of Doctor Who season

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by season.

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And as this is the 1st podcast, this is episode zero.

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My name's Brendan, and I will be one of your presenters.

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Hello, I'm Nathan.

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And I'm Richard breaking the binary duality.

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What being third?

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Just because we're starting at zero.

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Yes, hooray.

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So, um, a little bit about what we are going to be doing on this

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podcast.

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Today we are going to be looking at the beginnings of Doctor Who.

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So we'll be looking at the pilot episode, the untransmitted pilot

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as well as Mark Gatis's and Adventure in Space and Time.

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I believe Space comes 1st before time.

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Is that right?

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Did I get the title right?

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Do any of this know?

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I never had Spain in time.

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Spain in time.

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An adventure in Spain and time. in gloves. of time.

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And then we will be going through Doctor Who season by season

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after that.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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In its entire season.

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In its entire season.

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You know you want to.

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We're not dry and without alcohol. feel free to start before us.

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Yes, we haven't had alcohol, but we have had cake.

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Yes, that's something of the cake.

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We are recording this live from the sofa of Reasonable Comfort

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Newtown Branch.

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And to set the scene for you, the coffee table we are recording on

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is covered in cake crumbs, a William Hartnell action figure.

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A William Hartnell TARDIS, which I'm told is quite inaccurate

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outer scale size wise.

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It is not anatomically correct.

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And just force me incongruity. some Steed and Mrs. Peel comics

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based on the Avengers.

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Avengers.

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It is a Fonaguchi coffee table for people who are fond of the

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bleep your Naguchi coffee table website.

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We urge you to go and have a look after you've enjoyed this

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podcast.

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I never knew it was phone again.

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I never knew it was a phone, a Gucci.

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All of this will end up on a cutting.

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Yeah, yeah. post, I think probably.

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So where we're going to start from is having a look at some

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extracts from the original pitch documents for Doctor Who.

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So we're going back roughly to the middle of 1963.

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Where were you?

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Where were any of us?

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None of us was born.

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I think outside time and space.

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No adventures had been had so far.

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I think my parents were 14.

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So that's um, that's where I was.

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That's where I was.

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So where are you getting these from?

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Is this robbed the BBC?

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I have I've ransacked the biggest thing.

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For the lead up to Doctor Who's anniversary last year, the Doctor

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Who news website actually did a 30 part series on the genesis of

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Doctor Who and part of that was looking at some of the original

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pitch documents.

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Did you read that?

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Did you read it?

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I didn't read all of it.

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I skimmed.

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I kind of felt like I ought to be reading.

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Yes, but I couldn't really bring myself to do it.

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So if any writers of that rather wonderful 30 part series, It was

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great.

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I didn't miss a word.

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I didn't miss a word either because I didn't try to read all of

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them.

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Now, I just want to, 1st of all, relate what the series was

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originally going to be about and get your opinion on it

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gentlemen.

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It was originally going to be a series called The Troubleshooters

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with a team of a young man and a young woman and an older man.

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There was no teenage girl or child because it was believed that

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they didn't command the attention of anyone older than themselves

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in the audience.

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So you had an older scientist, um, an older man being, a man in

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his late 40s was defined as older in the document.

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And in real life, in those days, in real life.

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People didn't make it past the 50 line.

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That's very true It sounds like a mashup of Newman's Avengers

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pitch that he'd just done with ITV.

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Do you think that might have been?

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I think that's part of the storm of it.

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Well, no, I gathered that it was Newman who kind of actually

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vetoed it and just sort of said that a group of scientists

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wouldn't really need, you know, the doctor character to tell them

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things.

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Or, indeed, young people.

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Yeah, well, I mean, I gather that was it.

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They go through the pitch document in the, is it the origins

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documentary on the edge of destruction?

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DVD.

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And it seemed that Newman wanted the teenage girl and Newman

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didn't like the idea of the scientists.

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He kind of vetoed it.

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But it's obviously a place where Doctor Who eventually ends up

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going.

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I mean, in the 70s, that's actually pretty much the premise, isn't

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it?

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You've got, they're not a group of scientists, but it's a sort of

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troubleshooting group that the doctor advises and he's a bit older

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than in his 40s, but he's not the old man that aren't always.

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It's interesting that they vetoed it because it's still very much

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the post-war, the future looking post-festival of Britain way of

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seeing, we're still part of an organisation.

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We're still Britain and we have something of an empire and we're

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still recognising structure and organisation.

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But the thing that, like, the reason I reckon that Doctor Who did

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so well right at the time, I guess we'll get into that in a bit, is

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that it broke the mould and it broke it on every single line.

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It didn't allow for anything except maybe the tradition of C.S

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Lewis.

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And Huxley were instrumental in this, of the talented amateur.

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The man who exists outside of structure and outside of, well

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conformity and.

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And does his own thing.

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And muddles through.

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There's a great tradition in British writing, British fantasy

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writing, indeed. that kind of that kind of character.

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We wouldn't have had anything like that if it had been the

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troubleshooters that would have been unit and it would have been

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the unit adventures, yeah, by some other means.

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And when you sort of look at TV, English TV in the late 60s, early

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70s, there were a succession of series like that, the persuaders.

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Yes, but all on the road.

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All on the rival network.

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And made for the American market who were set up for that kind

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of...

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And arguably not as successful as Doctor Who.

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Or indeed the Avengers, which they were really trying to get on

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the back of since they had done so well in the US.

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Yeah, and I think it does come back to what you were saying in

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that part of the appeal of Doctor Who, and certainly part of the

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appeal of the Avengers.

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Most of the most of the Avengers is you have at least one major

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character who is not a trained professional. exists outside of the

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normative structures.

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We don't really know who he is, where he's from, who he works for

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who he answers to, most importantly, what he's going to do next.

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And that brings us very neatly to the point where, as you alluded

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to, Nathan, Sidney Newman, Z. No, I don't want this.

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This is this is safe.

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I want something risky and out there.

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And so we then got the famous pitch document which included

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characters such as Cliff, Biddy, and Lola, McGiven, Lola, McGovern

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played by Oona Stuff, and the red double-decker bus.

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But that's enough now.

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Iris wild time.

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I love that.

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No, I was referring back to Summer Holiday, Cliff Richard's

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movie.

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Yes, sorry.

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With the double-decker bus that went over a cliff.

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Or is that the young ones?

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The young ones.

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They did have a picture of Cliff Richard in the origins

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documentary, which is...

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Yes, well, that's where Cliff gets his name from.

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And then they decided, well, actually, no, Cliff Cliff has gone a

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bit past being popular with teenagers and is now a symbol for

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being sort of unpopular with teenagers and people trying to be

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cool with teenagers will mention Cliff Richard.

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So they were still going to call him Cliff for a while and

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actually have it as a character point that Biddy, later Susan

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would kind of be.

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Oh, you think you're so cool being Cliff.

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You're not cool.

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Cliff's not cool anymore.

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And then they came to their census and did they?

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He gets replaced by Ian.

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He gets replaced by Ian.

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Dances in a very stylish way throughout the show, particularly a

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chase episode one.

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And you know what?

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Having been a supervising teacher at a 7th form disco, I have to

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say that, yes, teachers do dance like that.

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That's good, that's good.

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There will be a gift of this, a comedy podcast for your

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entertainment pleasure.

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Something I really wanted to pick up from this pitch document is

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The Secret of Doctor Who.

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Are we familiar with this gentle look?

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In his own day, somewhere in our future?

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He decided to search for a time or for a society or for a physical

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condition which is ideal.

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Well, he did share, too, digs with Charles Hortrait.

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And having found it to stay there.

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He stole the machine and set forth on his quest.

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He is the extension of the scientist who has opted out, but opted

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farther out than ours can do.

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One symptom is his hatred for scientists, inventors, improvers.

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He can get into a rare paddy when faced with a caveman trying to

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event the wheel.

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And this then developed into an idea that...

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The doctors or rather Doctor Who's ultimate ambition is actually

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to stop technological progress wherever he sees it.

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In order that his own future, which is highly cop part mentalized

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and highly mechanised, will never exist.

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Yeah, no, it's a terrible idea, isn't it, really?

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I mean, stealing the, stealing the TARDIS obviously uh, makes its

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way into the series a few years later.

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But again, I remember that Newman's reaction to this was that he

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didn't want the doctor to be a reactionary.

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You know, I mean, the doctor just would have been politically

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horrifying had that been the case.

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I mean, I guess there's sort of some sense of, I mean, they say

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dropping out.

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So maybe that's a sort of leftist hippie reaction to progress or

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something, but it just would have made him monstrous, I think.

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I think we've got to look at, we're not going to get to the

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dialects as a teaser, their kids, till the next one of these.

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But we need to look in context of the Bay of Pigs and Kennedy

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being really the only face against which the Western world was

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facing off Khrushchev and the bomb, and it was a very real thing.

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There were kids were hiding behind the sofa, but they weren't

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doing it behind Doctor Who.

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They were doing it at the 6 o'clock news.

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Because those bombs were about to go off and that's certainly what

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children at school, at Susan's age, were believing.

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So you're saying that that, the idea of a doctor who prevents that

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kind of future from happening by being a bit of a Ludd eyes.

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I'm feeling that where would that have come from, but other than

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saying technology was a dual-edged sword very much for Britain at

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the time, it was they were seeing their way out of economic

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turpitude, but also seeing where it was spinning out of control.

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I guess that you do later in the program get, you know, the Doctor

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Who digs at computers, you know, who says negative things about

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them.

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They're, you know, something in the robot about them being sort of

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sophisticated idiots.

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You do get that, don't you?

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even with pert wheat, but that seems to be once we move into the

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70s and you've got the ecological viewpoint that started to come

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into it.

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Doesn't Trout and hate computers in...

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And actually, even...

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Even William Hartnell says, in the full 1st season, which we'll be

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00:12:01.139 --> 00:12:05.340
covering in the next episode in the Keys of Mariners, he says, I

252
00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:09.000
do not believe machines were made to govern man. machines can set

253
00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.220
laws, but man has to administer them.

254
00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.080
So that, I mean, I think that sort of marries the 2 ideas of that

255
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.820
he's not anti-technology, but he does not want technology taking

256
00:12:20.820 --> 00:12:22.740
over every aspect.

257
00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:24.840
Yeah, that's a weird one, isn't it?

258
00:12:24.899 --> 00:12:27.419
I mean, we'll get to that next time, but that only gets sort of

259
00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:30.539
tacked on the end of episode 6 and they all seem sort of quite

260
00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:34.620
happy to reinstate the scary brain.

261
00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:36.179
Mind controlling computer.

262
00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:38.759
Which, because it's written by Terry Nation, is a brilliant idea.

263
00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:43.799
Do you know, I'm the only person that I've ever met who loves Keys

264
00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:44.639
of Mariners to Dare.

265
00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:46.200
I quite enjoy it. it's fun.

266
00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:49.740
Anyway, we're getting we're getting off topic.

267
00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:51.419
As happens with Doctor Who.

268
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.299
We're going to be talking about the actual pilot itself now.

269
00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.059
For those of you who don't know, the 1st episode of Doctor Who was

270
00:12:57.059 --> 00:13:01.080
in fact, recorded twice, and the 1st recording, which was beset

271
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.539
with technical problems, but also had some very different

272
00:13:03.539 --> 00:13:08.159
characterisation and performances of its leads, was rejected

273
00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.419
rerecorded later.

274
00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.200
And Richard, I believe you've got some things you want to say on

275
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.139
the characterisation of Susan in the pilot, because she is very

276
00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:17.519
different to what we eventually see.

277
00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:20.279
She and Bailey are both very different, aren't they?

278
00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:22.500
And at cross purposes.

279
00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:25.200
Do you want to talk about the doctor first?

280
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:26.820
Or do you want to talk about Susan?

281
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:28.620
I think let's go with Susan.

282
00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.299
Because she is the title character.

283
00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.659
She is, and she is an unearthly child, but watching it from our

284
00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:38.759
perspective and thinking, where we are now with however many years

285
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.860
since the show's rebooted.

286
00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:46.320
And with Russell, Russell T. Davis, when he was brought back the

287
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.340
series and called his 1st episode Rose, he said, I was never very

288
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:53.340
interested in the character or the role of the doctor.

289
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:55.500
It was the companion who was significant for me.

290
00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:59.519
That's why my premiere episode is called Rose, not Doctor Who.

291
00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.759
Um, and we have it right from the beginning.

292
00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:07.200
My strong feeling watching this again is that Carol Anne Ford is

293
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.240
Russell T. Davis in apotheosis.

294
00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.159
And Russell, you'd look great in that dress.

295
00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.740
If you're watching, if you're listening now, I'd love to see it.

296
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:17.639
I really thought I was watching watching a fan.

297
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:23.519
And a fan from our time, not a fan contemporaneous with the

298
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:24.120
production.

299
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.940
It's called an unearthly child, but it could have also been called

300
00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:28.080
A Little Queer.

301
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.720
And when I say that, I mean, not just the queerness and oddness of

302
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:39.600
Susan herself, but the juxtaposition of her inner story set in the

303
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:39.840
time.

304
00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.519
She's a fan from now.

305
00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:47.580
She's interested in history, she's interested in science, gobbled

306
00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:48.299
she's a geek.

307
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:48.960
She a nerd.

308
00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:51.000
She's not a kid of the 60s.

309
00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:51.659
They did exist.

310
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.120
They just didn't have, we didn't even have the comfort of a word

311
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.679
fan back then.

312
00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:58.620
I think she would have stood out just as much as any science

313
00:14:58.620 --> 00:14:59.580
fiction fan did.

314
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.360
She's us watching the show, a box within a box within a box.

315
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:06.960
You see, I guess, I guess when they replace her with Vicky, again

316
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.440
you know, spoiler alert for a few episodes, for a few episodes.

317
00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:11.759
For those of you who haven't seen that.

318
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:12.720
Yeah, sorry.

319
00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:17.340
Um, uh, that Vicky is very much more contemporaneous, and she is

320
00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:18.659
actually much more hip.

321
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.120
Which is funny because her character is from the future.

322
00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:23.340
But she's a Mersey beat girl.

323
00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.080
Yeah, she would have...

324
00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:27.240
Yeah, it's sort of a modern characterisation.

325
00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:30.480
It's kind of saying that we're not going to change that much in

326
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:31.259
500 years.

327
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:37.019
Teenagers are still going to be these excitable, enthusiastic

328
00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:39.179
plucky, young people.

329
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.580
But she's also kind of cool and fashionable.

330
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.240
There is the, the Xander for Lyon in the, in his review of the

331
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.960
chase where he, you know, she's much hipper than the Beatles.

332
00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:50.519
You know, she hears the Beatles.

333
00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:52.379
They're playing classical music.

334
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.320
You know, she's she is just much more hip and up to date.

335
00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:56.940
But Susan's not like that.

336
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.740
I mean, she's just strange.

337
00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:03.419
And in the pilot, like, I'm not sure that she's vastly different

338
00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:05.700
like her portrayal is vastly different.

339
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.480
But the one scene where it did strike me was the scene where she's

340
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:14.159
trying to persuade the doctor, you know, to let Cliff and Lola

341
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:14.519
go.

342
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:21.120
And, um, uh, rather than the sort of panicky, you know, pleading

343
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.460
Susan that we get in the transmitted version.

344
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:27.360
I think she is a little bit more distant and a little bit more

345
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.460
alien and a little bit more in control.

346
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:35.340
In the pilot, most definitely. in her quasi-futuristic outfit.

347
00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.960
Yes And when in above push... push their way into the Tartars.

348
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.360
The doctor barely interacts with them at all.

349
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:43.559
He just sort of dismisses them.

350
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:45.899
But it's Susan saying things like, you don't know what you've done

351
00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:46.500
coming here.

352
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.759
It's not fearful.

353
00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.639
It's, I don't know what's going to happen next.

354
00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:51.360
Isn't that exciting?

355
00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:53.460
Yeah, you've broken the 4th wall, kids.

356
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:55.679
And the kids are actually the adults now.

357
00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.840
Yeah, yeah, you're through the looking glass.

358
00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:58.259
Yeah.

359
00:16:58.259 --> 00:16:58.679
Yeah.

360
00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:00.600
You're in our world, in our fanzine.

361
00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:02.460
This is our domain.

362
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:02.759
Yeah.

363
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:07.619
And she only becomes worried and panicky when people start getting

364
00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:08.039
hurt.

365
00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:12.240
And it's all, it's...

366
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.339
Well, when he elects... on the console.

367
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:16.920
And it's kind of... which is a nice touch, isn't it?

368
00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:19.319
It's the 1st time that you actually get physicality.

369
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:22.920
It's the 1st time that these people from the real world go through

370
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.519
the junkyard, if you like the junking of old BBC drama and all the

371
00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:30.599
tropes that they pass through the portal of security with the word

372
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:34.019
police on the outside into the world of television itself, you're

373
00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:36.119
gone inside the TV box now, kids.

374
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:41.160
It's this weird tension of Susan's character in that she's, she is

375
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.339
mature and she is intelligent, but there are things she doesn't

376
00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:45.900
know, as we've already discovered.

377
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.599
She's being playful with Ian and Barbara.

378
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:50.039
You don't know what you've done coming here.

379
00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:52.799
I don't know what's going to happen now, but as soon as someone

380
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:53.460
gets hurt.

381
00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:59.160
She becomes concerned, and that is a very childish, childlike, I

382
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.299
should say, quality, because, you know, children, it's all fun and

383
00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:05.519
games until someone falls over and gets hurt.

384
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:10.980
So she does have this childlike quality, even though she's very

385
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.599
confident and self-assured.

386
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:16.319
And then something happens to push her out of her comfort zone.

387
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:17.400
So Ian's been pushed.

388
00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:19.500
Everyone's been pushed out of their comfort zone so far.

389
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:21.839
Like the doctor doesn't want Ian and Barbara there.

390
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.839
Ian and Barbara are suddenly in this huge spaceship that they

391
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:25.440
don't understand.

392
00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:29.640
Susan is the last person who's comfortable, relatively comfortable

393
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:30.240
with the situation.

394
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:32.940
She's just like, oh, this is a minor irritation.

395
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.279
No, it'll be fine because no one will believe what they say.

396
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:39.599
But then suddenly, oh, wait, no, what we're taking off, you've

397
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:40.920
electrocuted him, you've hurt him.

398
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:41.759
Everyone's knocked out.

399
00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:42.900
What the hell is going on?

400
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.039
But in the broadcast version, all of those things in that line, you

401
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:50.220
know, you don't know what you've done coming here is all delivered

402
00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:53.759
in a much more sort of panicky way.

403
00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:55.140
As soon as they come in.

404
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.720
She's she's panicking and she's worried.

405
00:18:57.779 --> 00:19:01.799
You know, you, um, in the transmitted version, you lose that sense

406
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:06.599
of her, what Tom Baker would like to do of not reacting like a

407
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:07.019
human being.

408
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:07.799
Exactly.

409
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:12.359
It's the beat in the drama where you get in dramatic speak, with

410
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.180
the pause, the beat in the drama, where you bring the visual

411
00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:19.740
bacteria reality that these characters actually have feelings and

412
00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:20.160
can be hurt.

413
00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:22.500
This is where it becomes truly dramatic.

414
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.119
It's for real.

415
00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:28.740
So do we think that after Newman saw the pilot, he said, you know

416
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:32.339
no, the girl, she needs to be more stupid?

417
00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:37.200
I think that's the sentiment, but I think I think he had

418
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.099
introduced her to the concept in order that children would have an

419
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.240
identification character.

420
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:47.099
And so he kind of said she needs to be more identifiable and I

421
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.019
think it went too far in the other direction.

422
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.619
She became identifiable, but also she became someone that I think

423
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:55.319
children would have been watching thinking, oh, I'd be more brave

424
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:55.619
than her.

425
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:57.779
Yeah, which is unfortunate.

426
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.140
I think they watered it down and made it something comfortable and

427
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:03.299
familiar when it wasn't going to be that at all.

428
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.799
And, you know, even as early in the Daleks, you can see Carol Anne

429
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.299
Ford's performance, perhaps separating itself from the centre.

430
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.359
She really did a appear to be the centre of the show in that 1st

431
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:15.720
episode.

432
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:19.859
I think it really takes only till episode 2 when she's having a

433
00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:22.740
giant panic because the doctor's gone off for a smoke somewhere, if

434
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:23.339
you know what I mean?

435
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.359
She's rolling around on the ground and that kind of thing.

436
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:30.299
I mean, she really, you know, loses it straight away.

437
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.059
But there is something very centred and something very kind of

438
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:39.539
alien about her performance in that scene, you know, in a way that

439
00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:42.839
we don't really see very much until the sensorizes, probably.

440
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:48.180
What I found so interesting about Susan is Ian's line when he says

441
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:51.480
she's absolutely brilliant at some things and excruciating at the

442
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:51.839
rest.

443
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.920
Now, we're not talking about acting, we're talking about the

444
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.599
character and how she plays it.

445
00:20:57.660 --> 00:20:58.980
I think she's actually terrific.

446
00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:01.980
And the only reason her acting, as some people have criticised

447
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:05.759
Caroline Ford, further on is that she's bored and feels left out

448
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:07.140
and takes it personally.

449
00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:08.819
You know, they're sensitive people.

450
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:09.839
It's going to come across.

451
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:11.519
You can see Billy doing it later on.

452
00:21:11.579 --> 00:21:15.720
I don't think it's purely because of his arteriosclerosis that he

453
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:17.039
starts to fluff his lines.

454
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:18.779
I think it's because he's utterly miserable.

455
00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:21.960
If someone's unhappy, they're not going to do a good job.

456
00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:25.140
Well, and that's the adventures in space and time take on it as

457
00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:25.380
well.

458
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:25.740
Exactly.

459
00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:29.819
Like once his friends leave, one's verity and Cliff and Lola are

460
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:30.420
out the door.

461
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.140
Do you know what I mean?

462
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:32.640
He's...

463
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:34.019
Clifford, all around the door.

464
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.619
There's Ian, it's a good point because Ian follows that up when he

465
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:40.619
talks about the character, about Susan in the classroom and then

466
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.839
he says of himself, I take things as they come.

467
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:47.220
And I think that's quite an interesting point going to where the

468
00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:49.079
series was going to go with these characters.

469
00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:54.119
Ian and Barbara represent order, structure, and the Newtonian

470
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.779
reason, the universe of absolutes and constants.

471
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:04.079
Whereas Susan drawing away with her Rorschach blot and her little

472
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.900
hexagon is extra dimensionality.

473
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.799
She mentions currency and alchemy of change when she talks about

474
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:16.440
the decimal system or can't we just chuck this red to blue thing

475
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:19.079
and start making acid tabs and hootch juice and get onto something

476
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:19.740
more interesting.

477
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:25.019
You wanted to make bombs. make acid bomb, acid bombs, and go and

478
00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:28.019
join Abby Hoffman and try and raise the pentagon.

479
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.240
In preparation of this podcast.

480
00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:34.680
I did wonder how the scene of Susan getting the French Revolution

481
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.680
book would be different if it had been Ace.

482
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:40.140
Oh, what a beautiful idea.

483
00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:42.299
And, you know, you could have had the little radio playing some

484
00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:43.559
Kef drum solo.

485
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:45.779
I think Susan should have been ace.

486
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.200
Yes.

487
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.259
Well, I mean, there's a deliberate thing though, isn't there?

488
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.680
She's from London and it's 16 and she doesn't know the decimal

489
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:57.000
system either, of course, Ace doesn't know how many shillings to a

490
00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:58.920
pound anymore than Susan does.

491
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.460
Actually, in the pilot, not many people know this, but I'm a

492
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:05.880
little bit of a Doctor Who nerd and it's always annoyed me

493
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:09.779
enormously that the French Revolution book that Ace gets doesn't

494
00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:17.640
have a white paper dust cover, like the one in the brand in the

495
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.599
transmitted version.

496
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:19.619
And I know I'm not alone.

497
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:24.599
But the one in the pilot doesn't have that dust cover either.

498
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:29.400
So my theory is that Asa actually comes from a parallel universe

499
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:31.440
where the pilot is canon.

500
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.779
Oh, that's kind of beautiful.

501
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:34.380
What do you mean?

502
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:35.220
Yeah, like that.

503
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.519
I think the pilot has to become because drug references abound.

504
00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:41.880
We can't forget that the vortex when the TARDIS takes off comes

505
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.000
spewing out of Susan's left nostril.

506
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:47.759
It really does.

507
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.720
And her eyes go...

508
00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:53.160
Her eyes go bling.

509
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:55.440
It's an interesting thing again about her that she can't actually

510
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.960
focus on anyone in the pilot.

511
00:23:58.019 --> 00:23:59.339
Her eyes dart about left to right.

512
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.240
She also gets those strange close-up camera things too, doesn't

513
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:03.420
she?

514
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.019
Like we're deliberately made uncomfortable with her just because

515
00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:11.279
she's this giant face in kind of, you know, extreme close-up

516
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:15.420
whenever she kind of appears, everyone else is in sort of normal

517
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.819
medium close-up shots.

518
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.319
But Susan, Susan's face is there, you know, right in front of

519
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:22.500
her.

520
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.339
So I think that, you know, there is that attempt to make her kind

521
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:30.839
of unearthly, unearthly and alien, which in those days meant

522
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:31.380
foreign.

523
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.779
It's not just the Vidal Sassoon haircut.

524
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.619
And the Corage style dress that she's wearing, the camera

525
00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:41.880
technique that you're talking about is very much God-ars of Gene

526
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.880
Seaberg in a bouffe du souffle or Breathless just a few years

527
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:45.240
before.

528
00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:50.279
I believe that Susan is there to represent the Nouvelle Vague

529
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:53.339
young woman who is very much not at this time, not at our

530
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:55.980
generation, completely different with a twiggy haircut.

531
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:57.359
And it's all there.

532
00:24:57.420 --> 00:25:00.539
And she likes walking home in the English form.

533
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:01.619
She must be foreign.

534
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.440
She must be, which, of course, Ian had to stop her saying that

535
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.359
because that's a filthy word foreign, you know.

536
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:08.880
Well, I mean, they did get rid of that for the broadcast version

537
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.460
because she likes walking alone in the dark.

538
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:12.420
It's mysterious.

539
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.680
Yeah, it's mysterious.

540
00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:15.180
She might need to avoid.

541
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:17.460
Something would be so normal.

542
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.500
And therefore unlikely.

543
00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:25.380
That's quite interesting about her physicality, is that she only

544
00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:26.279
sits down.

545
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.380
We only see her sitting down.

546
00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:33.000
Um once. aside from the flashbacks when she's in class and, you

547
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.160
know, so obviously she's going to be sitting down and even then

548
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:36.180
she jumps up.

549
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.700
Of course, the decimal system hasn't started yet.

550
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.000
She jumps up out of her seat practically into the camera and it's

551
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:42.599
a really big moment.

552
00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:44.640
The only time she sits down.

553
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.259
Aside from that is when she's doing her raw shot ink block.

554
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:52.559
She sits down, she's relaxed and she just sort of starts putting

555
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.500
ink on the paper, putting ink on the paper, folds it, and it makes

556
00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:56.220
2 lines.

557
00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:01.079
She then encloses the 2 lines in a hexagon and suddenly she's

558
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:04.019
terrified of what she's just done and sort of scrunches it up.

559
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.779
And it's never elaborated as to what you do.

560
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.960
In fact, doesn't the documentary, the Origins documentary has

561
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:13.319
marginal note from Sidney Newman saying what the hell does the

562
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:13.859
girl draw?

563
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.119
Yeah, what is she doing?

564
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:16.619
But I think it's very interesting.

565
00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:18.839
That happens.

566
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:20.339
A, she gets scared by what she's doing.

567
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.500
So it's like she's not aware of what she's doing, and it only

568
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.019
happens when she relaxes, when she sits down.

569
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.420
The rest of the time she's on her feet, she's on her guard.

570
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:31.920
When she lets her guard down, this strange thing happens when she

571
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.799
draws a simple shape, which I always have thought, represents the

572
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.640
TARDIS console.

573
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:37.200
Oh, beautiful.

574
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.819
With the 2 lines being the central column, but just it's kind of

575
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:43.140
like just drawing it.

576
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.019
Oh my god, if someone finds this, I'm going to be in trouble.

577
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:50.940
And that is mirrored later on because in the transmitted version

578
00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:54.839
the doctor says, I can't let them go because they'll tell everyone

579
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.960
about us in the in the pilot, rather.

580
00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:02.640
He says, I can't let them go because they'll tell everyone about

581
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.680
the science here and the world isn't ready for it.

582
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:05.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

583
00:27:05.940 --> 00:27:07.140
He's worried about changing time.

584
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.920
And he doesn't have examples like giving Napoleon an iPod or

585
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:12.480
something, like, what is it?

586
00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:13.019
I can't remember.

587
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.380
Yes, I think that's a goon episode giving Napoleon an inflatable.

588
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:17.759
Yeah, yeah, something like that.

589
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:22.559
It's, it's, some sort of unmechanized culture giving, giving them

590
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.000
the steam engine or something like that.

591
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:26.880
Steam engine, for God's sake.

592
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:28.259
It's a joy.

593
00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:31.980
It will lead to steampunk and ruinous fiction. and tea.

594
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.119
It will lead to tea.

595
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:36.660
It's a lovely thing that they're referencing so there's a lot of

596
00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:37.920
cleverness in this pilot.

597
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:43.319
I reckon that the notion of the Rorschach test goes back to Jung's

598
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.799
writings and the unveiling of the unconscious and the shadow

599
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.279
self.

600
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:51.720
Perhaps it's that Susan is also saying you'll get to see inside my

601
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.759
head if they see this.

602
00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:56.640
I'm starting to reveal some of them, which means something to her

603
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.160
and of course, nothing to us because we can't read it, but, you

604
00:27:59.160 --> 00:27:59.400
know.

605
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:06.119
To segue into something about the doctor, sort of in his 1st scene

606
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.059
when he's talking to Ian and Barbara in the junkyard.

607
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.539
Something I found very interesting, and I hadn't noticed until I

608
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:18.839
rewatched the pilot to talk about it, is that the bit where he's

609
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.900
talking to Ian, do you think it's reasonable that a young girl

610
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:22.799
would be locked up in there?

611
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.059
He takes Ian away from Barbara, and the thing is, up until that

612
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:29.099
point, Barbara's been the one challenging him more.

613
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:35.279
So it's this very odd thing of, you know, 1963, the Avengers has

614
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.980
been on, on a Blackman's been in the Avengers for about a year.

615
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:42.839
So one of the very strong, 1st very strong female characters on

616
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.039
British television.

617
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.759
It's like the doctors kind of going, right, she's the smart one.

618
00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:50.339
But he's a man, he's in control.

619
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.019
So if I convince him to go.

620
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.740
Get her, like not talk to her, I'll talk to him.

621
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:56.880
If he goes, she'll go.

622
00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.599
Because he know, he seems to kind of go, right, I can't challenge

623
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:01.259
Barbara.

624
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.119
She's very feisty.

625
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:05.460
So I'll challenge the man because he seems like an idiot.

626
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.880
That was the impression I got from that scene, which is quite

627
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.119
subversive because yes, you know, it's the doctor dismissing a

628
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.000
woman, but it's the doctor dismissing the woman because she's too

629
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:15.299
clever.

630
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.799
It's very interesting.

631
00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:18.119
She is too clever.

632
00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:20.160
I mean, she's terribly clever.

633
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:23.700
One of the great pleasures last night, watching the documentary

634
00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:28.500
was just the DVD menu for the edge of destruction, which has

635
00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:31.079
Barbara calling the doctor a stupid old man.

636
00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:36.180
Yes, you know, explaining what he owes them and she really is just

637
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:37.380
truly spectacular.

638
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:39.539
And the performance is fully formed here.

639
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.319
Do you know what I mean?

640
00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.859
She's instantly superb even in the pilot.

641
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.759
I'd say she is the one person out of the 4 of them whose

642
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:48.779
performance does not change.

643
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.059
How do you think Ian changes?

644
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:55.140
Something I felt watching Adventure in Space and Time is when

645
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:57.180
they've got Ian recording the pilot.

646
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:59.400
He's very stiff and wooden.

647
00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.539
And I thought, that's very unfair.

648
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.000
And then watching the pilot's like, actually, yeah, William

649
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.079
Russell seems very uncomfortable in that pilot recording.

650
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:10.380
He's very muted compared to how he would later perform.

651
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.859
Whereas, you know, the doctor and Susan are brought down a few

652
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:18.180
notches, Ian seems to be brought up a few notches, but Jacqueline

653
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:19.920
Hill is just perfect all the way through.

654
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:23.279
Just to warn you, folks, for the 1st few episodes of the podcast

655
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.619
you're going to hear a lot of praise for Jacqueline Hill.

656
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:30.059
So if you're not about, if you're not a Barbara fan, how are you

657
00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:30.480
still alive?

658
00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:36.779
He is a bit, it's true, he is a bit stiff in his 1st performance.

659
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.940
But one of his opening lines is we're looking for a young girl.

660
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.220
To which Billy doesn't say, well, that's nice and normal, I

661
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:46.619
suppose, unlike keeping them in this cupboard.

662
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.500
Oh, look, here's one I prepared earlier.

663
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:55.140
Well, it is funny in that there seems to be this undercurrent

664
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.119
throughout the whole thing of...

665
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:02.579
I suppose child neglect and child mistreatment because Barbara

666
00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:04.559
says...

667
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:06.960
Well, that wasn't Kathy come home?

668
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:07.200
No.

669
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:07.859
What year is that?

670
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.220
We keep referring to Philip Sandeth's blog on this as well, and

671
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:14.160
we'll see a note, of course, which is...

672
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:19.380
And he cites Kathy come home as being as potent a force for

673
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:23.160
radical social change on British media as anything of the time.

674
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:27.839
I don't think Doctor Who quite reaches those levels of social

675
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:28.619
really.

676
00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:32.279
No, no, despite the fact that we have a neglected 16, 15-year-old

677
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:32.819
in a cupboard.

678
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.180
But what Barbara says, which I found very interesting, and I

679
00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:37.319
hadn't really listened to the words before.

680
00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:42.000
She says to Ian, sort of I want to push this whole thing further

681
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.539
about her living in a junkyard with her grandpa who doesn't like

682
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:50.339
strangers, but I don't, she says, I don't want to get the girl in

683
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:50.759
trouble.

684
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.599
And it's like, okay, how would pushing her specialising in history

685
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:59.039
get her in trouble?

686
00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:03.900
How how would contacting her grandfather get her in trouble?

687
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:07.559
And it's a sort of slightly sinister undertone.

688
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.240
And then they go spying on her.

689
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:13.740
And then, as you say, Richard, she gets locked in a cupboard.

690
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:18.839
We've also got to look at social tropes at the time and structures

691
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:22.019
and that, you know, a child really didn't have very much say and

692
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:23.519
really didn't have a voice at all.

693
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:27.180
I think Doctor Who is great, and the reason we love it and still

694
00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:29.759
do, is that it's a palmsist.

695
00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:31.500
It's a cypher for everything else.

696
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:32.700
It can be anything else.

697
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:33.599
You can apply it.

698
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:38.460
You can see it through the window of the TV to as a filter for

699
00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:42.059
every other production and every other story and it can go into

700
00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:42.900
any other story.

701
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.759
Nathan, you said something interesting about it.

702
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:48.000
What was it, Sanderford?

703
00:32:48.059 --> 00:32:49.079
TV.

704
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:54.240
It's so easy to get me too confused. in that when Billy talks

705
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.519
about how the TARDIS works and...

706
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:58.380
Yeah, well, that it works via television.

707
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.000
It actually strikes me, is that in the pilot?

708
00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:03.180
You know, in the broadcast thing he goes, you've discovered

709
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:04.259
television, haven't you?

710
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:08.160
And he explains that that's how the TARDIS works.

711
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.819
You can get a small building on television into a small box.

712
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:16.319
And of course, you know, the, um, the title sequence has always

713
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:19.619
been sort of, I mean, it's literally a camera pointing at a TV

714
00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:22.980
monitor and that's how the doctor travels through time, isn't it?

715
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.660
You know, it is the power of television.

716
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.839
And that's pretty much what you were saying earlier, I think.

717
00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.720
Yeah, anyway, weren't we going with that?

718
00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:32.220
I don't know.

719
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.000
What about the doctor?

720
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.740
The descriptor.

721
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.099
I always heard about his performance in the pilot before I 1st saw

722
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:39.539
it was nasty.

723
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:40.920
Hmm.

724
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:45.059
And I don't necessarily think he's any nastier in the pilot than

725
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:45.779
years later.

726
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.720
He's colder, certainly, but I'm not sure if I'd use the word

727
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:49.259
nasty.

728
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.680
He's he's uh, he's colder.

729
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.940
And I think the big, I mean, the big difference between the pilot

730
00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:00.960
and the transmitted version as far as Hartnell's performance is

731
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.319
concerned, is that scene where they're confronting him in the

732
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:05.099
junkyard.

733
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:09.119
And in the transmitted version, you know, he's going from object

734
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.599
to object, he's picking up a frame and, you know, like and looking

735
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.239
at things and going, hmm, you know, and throwing them around and

736
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.159
saying, oh, I meant to get that fixed up and stuff.

737
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:22.260
And so he's not really paying attention to Ian and Barbara in that

738
00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:23.400
sort of irritating way.

739
00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:25.980
And he seems vaguely amused by them.

740
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:30.000
Whereas he's very definitely irritated and angry at them.

741
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:36.539
And like, I think that shift, you know, that in the transmitted

742
00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:40.500
version, he really is the doctor, even as we know him today.

743
00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:43.500
You know, he's sort of slightly distracted.

744
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:51.360
He's amused his, you know, irritating, um, whereas the kind of, um

745
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:57.179
angry, you know, um, high-handed sort of doctor that we get in the

746
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:01.679
pilot in that scene at least, um, is very different from what what

747
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.000
we eventually end up with, I think.

748
00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:08.940
I think the big difference between what we see with the pilot and

749
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:12.780
Billy's performance further on, and it's also really shown in the

750
00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:16.320
origins, Adventures and Time and Space show, is the difference

751
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:21.119
between Billy's generous detachment, of his own feelings, in his

752
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:25.739
performance and the role, and how he softened it, and how, in

753
00:35:25.739 --> 00:35:30.719
David Bradley's performance, you've got the actor's sensibility

754
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:35.219
sensibilities, and the actor's performance. being very much at the

755
00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:35.760
forefront.

756
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:42.420
That's the thing that actually struck me as a bit of a loss or a

757
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:46.139
little bit sad about the Gatus production is that we didn't get to

758
00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:50.460
see how good nuanced Billy really was.

759
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.019
We just get the one beat.

760
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:53.099
Sure, it's 90 minutes.

761
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.079
You've just got to get an idea across.

762
00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:56.280
You've got to get the story there.

763
00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:06.780
But the subtleties of the doctors being able to Step back

764
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:10.559
sometimes be present in others, allow the companions to have the

765
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:16.980
floor, and then come forward radically opposed to the narrative or

766
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:19.800
be a part of it, and not actually knowing which way he was going

767
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:20.159
to go.

768
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.579
Was what made him really interesting and exciting.

769
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:25.860
And I think that really did propel the series.

770
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:29.400
He was very much the outsider at the centre.

771
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:32.159
And so was Susan in the beginning.

772
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:33.780
I think the show really lost something.

773
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.260
Perhaps it lost something that really would have made it

774
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.980
extraordinary had they just continued with the 2 of them being

775
00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:43.019
allowed to be outside their own narrative.

776
00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:46.619
In the end, I guess, as it had to be, only the doctor remained so

777
00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:51.719
everyone else had to follow the tropes of drama and be the mum, the

778
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:53.039
dad, or the teenager.

779
00:36:53.880 --> 00:37:02.519
Yeah, yeah, really until, yeah, the mid 70s with Mary Tam, who was

780
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:06.179
allowed to be doctors, but even she decided to leave when her

781
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:07.559
character was being watered down.

782
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:08.280
Exactly.

783
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:11.639
And in fact, the only, the only really...

784
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:15.719
The only really naughty actors were gone, got in it, who play with

785
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:18.780
a narrative, a Billy.

786
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.440
It's early Susan and then Tom and then throws it all up in the

787
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:22.739
air.

788
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.760
Yeah, absolutely.

789
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.840
And Katie Manning, obviously.

790
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:25.800
And Katie Manning, obviously.

791
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:29.579
And very sad, you know, not long before she died, that the only

792
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:34.380
actor who could really, she felt replaced Billy was Tom because he

793
00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:34.920
was dangerous.

794
00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:40.980
After all the political politeness had gone, she could say what

795
00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:41.820
she wanted to say.

796
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:42.420
Yeah.

797
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:49.079
So now we move on to our 1st award for this podcast, which is the

798
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:52.739
Jenny Laird award, the most puzzling creative choice.

799
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.539
I think that one's rather self-explanatory.

800
00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:00.179
And for me, it's got to be the question, where was David Whittaker

801
00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:02.280
in an adventure in space and time.

802
00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:06.300
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think the greatest omission of all.

803
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:12.659
I think Gaitus said that he sort of keenly felt the emission of

804
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:13.679
David Whisaker.

805
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:17.460
Like he acknowledged, I think, publicly that Whittaker deserved to

806
00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:21.179
be there, but just said, you know, with kind of collapsing it in

807
00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:22.619
you know, we've got 90 minutes.

808
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:24.059
We can't.

809
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:26.639
Oh, yeah, it's not like I blame him personally.

810
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:28.440
What would Whitaker have been doing?

811
00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:30.719
Whittaker would have been doing?

812
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.519
I think some of the Mervyn Pinfield role.

813
00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:35.639
He wouldn't have just been sitting at a table, editing scripts.

814
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.500
Huffing something.

815
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:38.340
Did he huff things?

816
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.599
Huffing Mercury, probably.

817
00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:41.699
Thing is, even if they just had him in 2 scenes.

818
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:46.679
You know, that would have been better than not having him at all, I

819
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:47.099
think.

820
00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:50.099
Maybe everyone could have mentioned him.

821
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.480
He could have been like Poochie.

822
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:53.699
Like when he's not in the room, everyone could have been saying

823
00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:54.780
where's David Whittaker?

824
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.059
Would have done something?

825
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.219
Yes, that would have been much better.

826
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.920
And the thing is, the man looks amazing.

827
00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.380
He looks like Jeff Tracy in human form.

828
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.739
He's got this wonderful shock of white hair with black eyebrows.

829
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:09.300
Is Alistair Darling?

830
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.099
He's a badger.

831
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:11.940
He's a badger.

832
00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:12.840
But a proper darling.

833
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:14.760
Can I offer an award?

834
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:15.119
Yes.

835
00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:18.719
I guess the obvious Jenny later award for most puzzling and

836
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.980
creative choice in the pilot and the broadcast thing is Susan's

837
00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:27.179
hand movements during the during John Smith of the Common Man.

838
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.820
I mean, that is unearthly.

839
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:30.420
Do you know what I mean?

840
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.579
But then there's unbelievable.

841
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.500
Again, it's, to me, it's picking up on what the French were doing

842
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:41.519
God on, then the Nouveau Vag, and you see, that kind of movement

843
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:44.699
is foreign being alien.

844
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:45.780
So everyone's doing it?

845
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.900
Well, well, everyone, if they're called Gen Seaberg, really.

846
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.000
Coffee shops across Paris.

847
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:54.719
People are sitting there with a baguette in one hand, a string of

848
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.539
onions around their neck. and their hand movements doing this sort

849
00:39:57.539 --> 00:39:58.380
of little...

850
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.139
We should probably mention that half the wardrobe budget went on

851
00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:05.760
for the homosexuals listening at home went on Carol Anne Ford's

852
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:07.019
Vidal Sassoon haircut.

853
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.559
It was apparently the 1st wedge, not wedge.

854
00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:12.239
The 1st wedge scene on TV.

855
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:16.559
And I think we should also say for anyone worried about the French

856
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:20.699
stereotyping of necklace of onions, I would like to point out that

857
00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:22.920
Nathan did not mention wearing a beret.

858
00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:24.539
So we're not about stereotypes at all.

859
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:25.559
No, no, we're not.

860
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:26.460
That would be wrong.

861
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:31.559
And of course, the gloriously titled, what would Stephen Moffatt

862
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:31.860
do?

863
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.400
Because I've been thinking to myself, We should look at how

864
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:39.059
Stephen Moffat would approach some of the classic moments in

865
00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:41.280
Doctor Who as we look at them going through.

866
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:44.639
And for me, a, you know, a classic moment of this, you could

867
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:49.139
obviously go with walking into the TARDIS, which every subsequent

868
00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:51.000
producer has had their way of doing.

869
00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:55.199
And I did actually quite enjoy Stephen Moffat's moment where Jenna

870
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:57.659
Louise Colbert says, it's smaller on the outside.

871
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.980
I thought I thought that was a nice simple inversion.

872
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:08.340
So I'm going to go for the scene in which Susan, who doesn't want

873
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.340
to attract any undue attention to herself, immediately acts very

874
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:12.719
strangely in front of her teacher.

875
00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:14.460
I like walking in the English fog.

876
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.059
It's mysterious So I'm going to say if Stephen Moffatt were in

877
00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:24.539
charge of that, the Susan in that scene is actually from, After

878
00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:27.659
Susan has left the TARDIS and she's come back in time in order to

879
00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:30.659
get Ian and Barbara interested and pique their curiosity.

880
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.639
Susan's actually already left for the day.

881
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:34.440
She doesn't want to book on the bloody French Revolution.

882
00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:38.099
She just wants to go home to a space television inside the TARDS.

883
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:40.980
To snug a boy, perhaps.

884
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:42.780
Through a space-time visualiser.

885
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:44.219
Through the space time visualise.

886
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:45.780
Which they don't have yet.

887
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:48.659
But again, she could have brought, she's Nick's the space-time

888
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:50.760
visualiser, which is why we never see it after the chase.

889
00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:52.619
She's come back, she's put it in the TARVS.

890
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:57.000
And then she's gone to Coal Hill School to pique Ian and Barbara's

891
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.820
interest, which is why when they turn up at the ship, Susan's like

892
00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:00.719
what are you doing here?

893
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:02.400
I haven't even spoken to you today.

894
00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.199
Get out of my house.

895
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:07.800
So that's what I think Stephen Moffatt would do if he were given

896
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.239
this script.

897
00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:10.320
Okay.

898
00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:11.880
I think he'd kill Ian.

899
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:12.599
Yeah.

900
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:14.639
And then bring him back.

901
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:15.659
Yeah, maybe a couple of times.

902
00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:18.539
Yeah, when he drops the torch, he actually falls over and hits his

903
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:18.719
head.

904
00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:23.219
Yeah, well, maybe Ian sort of magically pregnant in some way.

905
00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:25.980
Would that be a thing as well?

906
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:26.699
I offer to do that.

907
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:27.360
Yes, yes.

908
00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:28.739
Yes, I think so.

909
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.420
Ian gets pregnant to a caveman.

910
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.920
I can actually see this particular segment of the podcast having a

911
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:38.579
limited future because it seems to me that Moffatt only does about

912
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:39.599
3 or 4 things.

913
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.719
So, kill them, get pregnant.

914
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:44.519
Cross your own time.

915
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:45.000
That's it.

916
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.400
Something with statues.

917
00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:51.000
I think it's there's also, you know, the creepy one where the

918
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.400
doctor meets his companion as a little girl.

919
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.099
Yes.

920
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:57.000
Yes.

921
00:42:57.059 --> 00:42:59.400
It keeps happening and it creeps me out every time.

922
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.280
Anyway, so enough about me.

923
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.539
Okay, so I suppose we're coming to the end now.

924
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:11.280
But I'd like to hear, gentlemen, if you have any recommendations

925
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:13.199
for our listeners to go out and experience.

926
00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:17.460
Oh, well, I have to I have to plug my own website.

927
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.079
What is your website, mate?

928
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.360
So it's the Randomiser.net.

929
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:27.000
And basically the idea of it is that say you're planning an

930
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:28.980
evening of watching Doctor Who.

931
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:34.079
Well, you could, you could let, you know, quality or entertainment

932
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:39.239
value dictate what story you end up watching or you could do it

933
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:40.199
completely at random.

934
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:42.539
And that's what the randomiser is for.

935
00:43:42.539 --> 00:43:47.820
So all you do is point your browser at the randomiser.net, and it

936
00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:50.039
will pick a Doctor Who story for you at random.

937
00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:50.699
It's very simple.

938
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:55.260
Although it does have a complicated system of preferences, which

939
00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:59.460
allows you to exclude certain doctors or make sure it doesn't pick

940
00:43:59.460 --> 00:44:03.420
a story that you've seen before or if you're not keen on loose

941
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:06.960
cannon reconstructions, you can get it to pass over stories that

942
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:09.659
don't exist in their entirety.

943
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.099
So there you are.

944
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:13.679
That would might be the only thing that would ever motivate you to

945
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:17.880
watch, uh, you know, time flight or or the dominators.

946
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:22.079
Uh, uh, but it exists and, and uh, you can follow it on Twitter at

947
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.360
uh, DW Randomiser.

948
00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:25.800
Excellent.

949
00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:27.059
Just a quick question.

950
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.579
Have you added Knight of the Doctor to the Paul McGann section?

951
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:30.360
No, no.

952
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:30.659
Okay.

953
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:31.679
It's not canon.

954
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:32.760
It didn't happen.

955
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:37.320
Shock and horror.

956
00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:40.019
The C word has come up.

957
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:42.659
Richard said canon before, actually.

958
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:44.699
I think I'm going to say it a few times an episode.

959
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:47.400
Yeah, yeah, yes, but I agreed with you the 1st time.

960
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:50.880
Richard, do you have anything for the listeners?

961
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:55.019
The randomiser for me every time because I was constantly young

962
00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:57.360
each time I pressed it, although it would only give me Peter

963
00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.380
Davidson story.

964
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.780
So obviously it is being run by Valentine Dial.

965
00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:02.760
It's from a darker universe.

966
00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:05.219
It's been possessed by the marlas, I think.

967
00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:05.940
That's the one.

968
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.900
I think Paddy Kingsland gets royalties whenever you watch a story

969
00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:12.119
with one of his jaunty scores.

970
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:13.320
That would be it.

971
00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:14.099
I do love it.

972
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:15.900
If only you've got an electric shock every time.

973
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.639
Anyway, sorry.

974
00:45:17.699 --> 00:45:19.139
Yes, but it's live.

975
00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:28.260
Uh, my recommendation, uh, in um, in keeping with the theme of the

976
00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:33.360
podcast, is the pre-series Audio Adventures featuring Art Carolan

977
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:37.559
Ford, there have been some companion chronicle set before the

978
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:38.159
series.

979
00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:41.460
One of them is...

980
00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:42.780
Quiz.

981
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.000
Is there Quinnus?

982
00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:46.260
Quinnus.

983
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:47.219
In the 4th universe.

984
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:48.059
Could they go there?

985
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:50.699
Yes, Quinnus in the 4th universe. in the 4th universe?

986
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:51.960
Written by Mark Platt.

987
00:45:52.019 --> 00:45:53.400
Wow, is it good?

988
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:54.960
It's quite good, yes.

989
00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:56.579
Almost as good as ghost light.

990
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.539
So there is the beginning.

991
00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:01.800
Oh, P road spare parts.

992
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:09.179
There is the beginning, which is, which does actually tie in with

993
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:12.960
where we see Billy in the name of the doctor.

994
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:16.380
There's even a bit where Susan says, grandfather pushed me into it

995
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:20.340
pushed me into one of the capsules, and he, he was outside for an

996
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:22.559
awful long time, and then he reached it out and pulled me into a

997
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:26.280
different capsule, because that moment where Clara says, you can

998
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:28.139
take that one, but this one's far more interesting.

999
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:29.219
So it ties in.

1000
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:32.219
I'm just saying we have to...

1001
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.619
There is Quinus in the 4th universe.

1002
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:39.900
There's the Alchemists, which is set in 1930s Berlin.

1003
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.420
I don't even know how these work.

1004
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.599
So does Caroline Ford do a comedy Billy Hartnell impersonation?

1005
00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:46.199
Is that what happened?

1006
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:48.420
She does a not bad Billy.

1007
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:49.019
She really does?

1008
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:51.119
She gets the tone, right?

1009
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:54.780
More, you know, obviously she can't get a spot on impersonation

1010
00:46:54.780 --> 00:46:56.820
but she does get the tone and the mannerisms quite well.

1011
00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.239
So is it a 1st person narrative told from Susan's point of view?

1012
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:01.800
I just know nothing about these.

1013
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:05.760
Yes, the companion chronicles are a 1st person narrative told by

1014
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:06.840
the particular companion.

1015
00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:12.659
What's slightly different is her story in the destiny of the

1016
00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:13.380
doctor range.

1017
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.280
Hunters of Earth.

1018
00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:17.579
Actually, it's been a few months since I've listened to it, but I

1019
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:18.780
believe she told me.

1020
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:19.980
You don't listen to it every week?

1021
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:21.719
I don't listen to it every week, no.

1022
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:23.519
So, yes, pretty much.

1023
00:47:23.579 --> 00:47:25.920
It her telling the story in 1st person with one additional voice

1024
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:26.400
as well.

1025
00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:30.599
So the beginning, for instance, has Terry Malloy as Quadrig of

1026
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.059
Stoyne, who...

1027
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:37.079
He's a timelord technician who's inside the TARDIS when they steal

1028
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:37.260
it.

1029
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:38.820
Oh, I think I've heard of this.

1030
00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:40.500
Yes, spoiler alert.

1031
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:41.519
It's very good.

1032
00:47:41.579 --> 00:47:43.739
Well, that's the 1st 5 minutes.

1033
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:43.980
Okay.

1034
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:44.820
So there you go.

1035
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:46.199
And that's on the cover.

1036
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:48.179
Okay, all right.

1037
00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:49.440
Sorry. all right to me.

1038
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:49.980
Go, man.

1039
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:54.420
So yeah, I would recommend those audio adventures.

1040
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.940
They're about an hour long, so you can listen to them in the car

1041
00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:00.059
or on the bus on the train.

1042
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.639
I wouldn't recommend listening to them on the bike as I do

1043
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:07.500
sometimes see other cyclists with their headphones in and then...

1044
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.679
That's an age. ironing. ironing is a good time to listen to

1045
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:10.860
these.

1046
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:12.360
Yes, ironing is.

1047
00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:14.699
I was wondering where we were going by mentioning the word.

1048
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:15.659
No, no.

1049
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.880
It's just a little recommendation for the viewers. that's

1050
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:23.699
absolutely right Now, as this is a podcast by fans, we would like

1051
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:25.800
to hear from you if you've listened to us.

1052
00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:27.179
We hope that someone has.

1053
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:34.739
You can actually find our website, flightthroughentirety.com, and

1054
00:48:34.739 --> 00:48:37.619
we are going to be having a comment section there.

1055
00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:40.260
Please write in with any thoughts you have.

1056
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:42.539
Abuse is entirely acceptable.

1057
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:43.619
Abuse is entirely.

1058
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:44.820
Almost inevitable, I would think.

1059
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.599
Yes, indeed.

1060
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:47.940
It's actually how Richard gets through the week.

1061
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.400
Yeah, under a pseudonym.

1062
00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:53.820
Mrs. Mary Whitehouse rent has already written some, owns some

1063
00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:56.820
poems for us, which will be in the next exciting podcast.

1064
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:58.019
Tune in for that.

1065
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.800
And if there's any topics or observations you have, or if you

1066
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.880
disagreed with anything we've said, by all means, leave a comment

1067
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.780
at flightthroughentirety.com, subscribe to the RSS feed there, and

1068
00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:12.239
you'll be able to get the podcasts direct to you.

1069
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:17.219
We will also be on iTunes so you can find us that way.

1070
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.800
So just remember, flightthroughentirety.com.

1071
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:26.639
We will have Nathan's Twitter handle there, DW Randomiser, as well

1072
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:32.219
as mine, which is critical theory, but instead of the 2nd C in

1073
00:49:32.219 --> 00:49:33.360
critical, it's a cue.

1074
00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:36.179
And it's not critical theory then.

1075
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:40.380
Um, Well, quite frankly, I'm considering changing it because it's

1076
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:42.719
very hard to explain each time I do have to explain it.

1077
00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:46.500
So it may be something completely, I may regenerate it before the

1078
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:47.219
next podcast.

1079
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:48.900
This is going to be like audio visuals.

1080
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:53.820
Our next podcast will hopefully be out in one month's time, and we

1081
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:58.739
will be looking at the entirety of William Hartnell's 1st season.

1082
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:03.059
So that is an unearthly child through to the reign of terror.

1083
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.960
And, well, who knows, by the time we record it, Marco Polo may

1084
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:12.360
have been found in a Mormon basement in Hong Kong or somewhere.

1085
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:14.039
They don't have...

1086
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:14.760
Hong Kong.

1087
00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:17.340
You tell that to Deborah Watling.

1088
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:18.539
I'm not going to disagree with her.

1089
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:20.880
So I'm going to sign off.

1090
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:26.699
And I would like to thank Richard and Nathan, who may also like to

1091
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:28.139
sign off in their own voices as well.

1092
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:29.880
Well, it's good night for me.

1093
00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:30.840
And it's good night from him.

1094
00:50:35.219 --> 00:50:38.340
You have been listening to Flight Through Entirety with Nathan

1095
00:50:38.340 --> 00:50:41.820
Botomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone, episode zero, A Little

1096
00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:44.760
Queer, was reported in Newtown, New South Wales, Australia, on

1097
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:46.619
Sunday, the 6th of April, 2014.

1098
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:50.760
You can find us on our website at flightthroughentirety.com or on

1099
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:53.039
Twitter under FTE podcast.

1100
00:50:53.099 --> 00:50:56.519
And now I'm off to walking the Australian Sun.

1101
00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:57.539
It's mysterious.