WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:39:26 1 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:31.620 Hello everyone. 2 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:39.000 I'm Brendan and this is the 2nd episode of Flight Through Entirety, where we're going to be covering part of Doctor Who's 1st season. 3 00:00:39.060 --> 00:00:43.920 We actually recorded it altogether, but as it is, we've discovered we don't have time for the whole thing. 4 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:49.740 You're actually saying this before we've recorded the episode, Brad. 5 00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:51.539 How do you know that? 6 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:54.240 Well, I'm the editor. 7 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:58.140 So, you see, I actually have to know what's going to come up before we even say it. 8 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.539 I mean, for instance, I can make you say this. 9 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:02.700 Lush, aggressive vegetation. 10 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:04.079 You see what I mean? 11 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:07.140 It's almost as if it's happening in real time. 12 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:08.219 I'm Brendan. 13 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:09.900 Oh, I'm Nathan. 14 00:01:10.019 --> 00:01:11.819 I'm the other one. 15 00:01:13.379 --> 00:01:16.920 So I'm Razzle on, he's OmeGarron, he's the other. 16 00:01:16.980 --> 00:01:19.019 Yes, I'm... 17 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:22.980 Although everyone seems to be Linda Bellingham for this episode. 18 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:25.319 Especially if you use gravy. 19 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:34.739 Now, last time we discussed the pilot episode of Doctor Who, and this time around, we're looking at William Hartnell's 1st season proper. 20 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:37.140 So the actual broadcast episodes. 21 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:48.000 So we're going to start off with the broadcast version of an unearthly child and the following 3 episodes, sometimes referred to as the Tribe of Gum, or 100,000 BC. 22 00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:49.859 Hello, Toms Bilsbury, if you're listening. 23 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:58.260 So, gentlemen, what do we think of the transmitted version of an unearthly child versus the pilot version we were discussing before? 24 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.480 Well, I have no opinion. 25 00:02:00.540 --> 00:02:03.299 I'm probably the wrong person have on this podcast. 26 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:04.260 Never the wrong person. 27 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:04.859 Well, get out. 28 00:02:05.219 --> 00:02:07.079 What about you, Red? 29 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:28.439 I'd prefer the pilot to the transmitter, just simply because Billy and Susan, I think, are closer together and whatever nights were handed down from the control box, the gods, about, I don't know, well, if you can remember loosening it up or more naturalistic or just having some more flow, because nothing was working, they said, it was all felt very stilted. 30 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:34.199 I kind of liked that it felt silted, it is meant to feel strange and surprising and alien and dangerous and nothing you've ever seen before. 31 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:38.039 You know, taking them back off the TV set and finding you can dive into it. 32 00:02:38.099 --> 00:02:41.340 And I don't get that so much from the transmitted version. 33 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:59.520 But mostly it's just, um, feeling that very much in that raw state of the 1st of the trans, untransmitted, that Carol Anne Ford is the centrepiece, the guiding, the guiding light in the story, just as, just as Russell understood it when he rebooted for Rose. 34 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:02.219 It's about the companion. 35 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:13.860 It's interesting that Sydney Newman was really disappointed in her casting as a granddaughter, just to stop the sniggering from the, from the ranks, you know, the thought, you know, we can't have her travelling with a young girl. 36 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:33.599 So I can't, I can see what he means because there's a problem that's built up that we'll guess we'll talk about as this, as this talk about the season goes on, that she's too close to a narrative, but also an alien, so she's neither us nor them. 37 00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:35.280 I actually think really like that. 38 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:52.080 I don't think she, she would have worked as well had she been entirely familiar in just a schoolgirl, the idea of her being outside both of our world and, The, um, the worlds of Barbara and Ian make her between the doctor and us very much so. 39 00:03:52.259 --> 00:03:55.259 I think it's a real shame that that wasn't explored. 40 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:59.580 But we get moments of it as we're going to discover this season. 41 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:01.680 Can I disagree with Richard? 42 00:04:01.740 --> 00:04:21.959 I actually think that I actually think that the that Susan in the transmitted version is vastly worse and as I've said before, I think, you know, does Morris take her aside and say, listen, love, if you're nowhere near stupid or panicky enough, you know, like I don't and so I don't quite know what they're aiming for. 43 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:22.980 She's much, much better. 44 00:04:23.040 --> 00:05:07.680 And it, I think it, um, it, fatally, uh, it fatally damns the character, that, that, and we'll talk about this next time, I think, when, uh, when we discuss season 2 and the introduction of Vicky, where you have a character from the future, who is strange and alien, who gets to, um, you know, look condescendingly at Barbara and Ian, um, and be that sort of Starchild that Susan was meant to be, but she's having fun and she's plucky, whereas Susan is just sort of panicky and stupid, and it's not Caroline Ford's fault, but right from, well, you know, right from very early on, I think that she's 45 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:09.360 she sort of damns herself as a character. 46 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:19.500 Whereas I think that the decision to get Bill Hartnell to tone it down and be more lovely was precisely the right decision. 47 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.259 Oh, with added loveliness. 48 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:31.920 You see him, you see him do doctor-ish things in episode one, things that you can imagine, you know, all of the other doctors, except Pert, we probably doing. 49 00:05:32.459 --> 00:05:35.279 And again, we talked about this last time. 50 00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:46.560 He's looking at things in the junkyard and not paying attention to Ian and Barbara and being distracted and and, you know, being a little bit silly and absent-minded and irritating. 51 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:54.600 And that's the doctor, whereas the sort of grumpy old man from the pilot isn't really in the same vein. 52 00:05:54.660 --> 00:05:59.100 So I think it's, I think it is an improvement from the point of view of the doctor. 53 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.019 And then just technically it's an improvement. 54 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:02.459 The whole thing looks a bit better. 55 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:16.920 Technically, I definitely agree, but performance wise, I would have liked us to have had some time to go from Cranky Billy to Grandfatherly Billy, because he's certainly got the range, certainly does it, and he does it even in that in that 1st story. 56 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:19.019 Oh, some great moments there. 57 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:20.399 Turkish, you're going to get to. 58 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:23.040 But it's what they were trying to do with Colin Baker. 59 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:28.199 And maybe stretching that out too far, but I think it's... 60 00:06:28.259 --> 00:06:29.279 It's a, how did that go? 61 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.199 But it's a really worthy experiment. 62 00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:35.519 Give the audience time to look, this is meant to be shocking and surprising. 63 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:43.740 And for me, that's why the pilot is better because I really don't know where we are with it and I don't know what to think of these initial characters other than Billy is a dangerous figure. 64 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:51.899 A big thing that shows that difference between the doctor's characterisation and the pilot and the transmitted version is that scene you were talking about when he's picking things up and looking at them. 65 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:55.980 In the pilot, you get the impression that he's going, oh, now look at this, da da. 66 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:56.939 Are they still listening? 67 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:57.779 Are they still there? 68 00:06:57.899 --> 00:07:01.980 And he's sort of trying to distract Ian and Barbara by going, oh, look at this. 69 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.899 Whereas in the televised version, it's like, no, he's genuinely seen this thing and he's genuinely interested in it. 70 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:07.740 Oh, people are still here. 71 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:12.000 You know, he's not trying to be obfuscatious anymore. 72 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:13.500 He's just gone, ooh, shiny thing. 73 00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:21.480 I mean, that is an aspect of every doctor's personality, the slight shiny thingness, even pertwee. especially if it was sandwiches. 74 00:07:21.540 --> 00:07:23.160 Ooh, shiny sandwiches. 75 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:25.079 Cheesy whiny. tea. 76 00:07:25.139 --> 00:07:26.160 Well, tea. 77 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:31.379 I mean, Susan in the transmitted 1st episode isn't vastly different. 78 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:33.959 She's a little more scared and a little less aloof. 79 00:07:34.019 --> 00:07:41.339 I think the damage really starts to come in a scene you've talked about before where I, I, um, I think I'll let you say it. 80 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:50.519 No, I mean, that is that scene in episode 2 where she like just falls over and has a big giant panic and a cry while the doctor sort of has wandered off somewhere. 81 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:53.160 I mean, it's just embarrassing, really. 82 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:55.139 And it's not some... 83 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:57.300 I mean, it's something that they do again over and over again. 84 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.779 If we get up to the reign of terror. 85 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:10.199 That's, I mean, it really reaches its nadia and the reign of terror where, where she's panicking and so we decide not to escape from the cell or we decide not to escape. 86 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:11.339 I'm looking forward to getting to that. 87 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:16.019 There isn't a real idea for Susan's character at the end of it and for Carol's performance. 88 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:17.279 Right. 89 00:08:17.339 --> 00:08:21.360 We haven't talked about much about it. 90 00:08:21.420 --> 00:08:27.600 There's not much to say about them, really, except right away, Doctor Who seems to be doing political satire. 91 00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:33.899 You know, the tribe of gum, Karl and Tsar are the leaders of the labour and the conservative party. 92 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:35.220 That's interesting. 93 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.460 Because Cal, um, czar, rather. 94 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:49.440 You know, he wants he wants to protect his tribe, but he wants to be the one in power providing the protection, which is very labour and very union, whereas Cal is very conservative. 95 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:51.419 Like, I'm going to tell as many lies as I can. 96 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:54.539 Sorry, controversial. 97 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:55.440 Okay. 98 00:08:55.500 --> 00:09:03.600 Cali's very conservative in that he... waits for an opportune situation to prevent to present his point of view. 99 00:09:04.139 --> 00:09:17.220 Discards what doesn't really relate or discards anything which might make him weaker in his position and then takes his enemy's weakness and uses that as strength. 100 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.019 And to be fair, so does Zaar. 101 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:19.980 You know? 102 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:22.259 So you've got the 2 sides of politics there. 103 00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:31.500 Not that I'm saying conservative politics is built on lies, but remember a lot of Carl's argument and attack is based on lying about czar. 104 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:34.200 Now, Tzar, there's a lot of problems to Tzar. 105 00:09:34.259 --> 00:09:39.899 He imprisons our regulars, you know, he does lie to them, that he doesn't lie to his own tribe. 106 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.000 Whereas that's something cow does. 107 00:09:42.059 --> 00:09:50.100 There's also that the fact that the back 3 episodes parallel the 1st one. 108 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:59.399 So we have time travellers going back into the distant past and dealing with primitive people, you know what I mean? 109 00:09:59.460 --> 00:10:06.059 So, um, Ian and Barbara get to see what it's like for the doctor and um, and Susan in some sense. 110 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:09.960 And then someone, it's almost certainly Santa. 111 00:10:10.019 --> 00:10:19.019 For someone talking about the power struggle between the 2 men, being like the power struggle between other doctor and Ian about who's going to be the star of the show. 112 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:25.980 And so you get, so you do get these parallels, but despite all of that, like as sort of entertainment, it's a bit rough. 113 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:38.340 And I have a friend who every so often watches it and then rings me up and does a caveman with a Rada accent. must make fire. 114 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:40.440 The old woman now. 115 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:47.399 Well, I'm glad you raised the point of there shall be no fire because there was a lot of fire in that episode and it's all called Eileen Wayne. 116 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:51.840 And we have a great deal to thank Ms. Way for. 117 00:10:51.899 --> 00:10:53.759 It's not just the sound of a cat singing. 118 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:54.659 Did you know that? 119 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.620 Apparently she had, she recorded a cat singing and just played it to Tom Baker. 120 00:10:58.679 --> 00:10:59.700 Really? 121 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.039 Yes, yes, she's had a real thing for her singing cats. 122 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:04.019 She's an amazing woman on so many levels. 123 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:07.019 Crazy. think she's great. she still with us? 124 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:08.039 Sadly, nice. 125 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:12.419 But her spirit lives on in a young man called Philip Van Pelton. 126 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:13.620 Hello, Philip, if you're listening. 127 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.200 Yes, channelling her as we speak. 128 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:24.059 But she's terrific in this, and she really does hold it together, and I love that there's spinning around out of, what are we seeing here? 129 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:25.919 We're seeing revolutions. 130 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:27.000 We've got... 131 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.539 Okay, we're before the Perfumer Scandler of 64, only just. 132 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:37.080 We're already getting this kind of sub-level free song of the. 133 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:43.139 The political climate's starting to get agitated and people starting to question what's going on. 134 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.279 You've got beyond the fringe just heading out. 135 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:48.539 They're just starting to appear. 136 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:53.100 There is such a thing as political satellite finally appearing on the BBC. 137 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.639 Maybe we're getting a reflection of that in the way that you're seeing. 138 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.500 This fractiousness of a tiny tribe set before civilisation. 139 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:02.820 It's a really nice take on it. 140 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:03.779 I haven't thought of that before. 141 00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:08.940 It is a, It's a bit of a slog though, isn't it? 142 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:17.639 That, that, that, that's the thing, for all the sort of political commentary, it's still people kind of jumping up and down and going, ugh. 143 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:20.879 A lot of bad BBC wigs as well. 144 00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:24.779 And just thinking, a thing about the Rada accents. 145 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:31.200 If I were the kind of fan to rationalise things with crazy theories, which, coincidentally enough, I am. 146 00:12:31.259 --> 00:12:33.960 I have... 147 00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:45.000 It could be that, um, for the 1st say, 7 of the doctor's lives that the TARDIS's translation circuits, telepathic circuits are set to RP. 148 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.440 They are a bit posh, aren't they? 149 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:48.419 Yeah, generally bit bosh. 150 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:56.820 And then lo and behold, done for one night of the 8 doctor's life, they seem to be confused as to whether they're in America or Canada. 151 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:02.340 I blame Dodo Chaplet. she did something when she walked in. 152 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.580 Yeah, actually, yeah, Dodo has broken Dodo. 153 00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:10.679 Dodo broke every circuit she ever touched on so many levels. 154 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:25.740 And then, you know, when the doctor went from being ultra received pronunciation, John Hurt, to being the northerner, that just completely broke them and you got all the accents at once for the Russell T. Davis era. and it's lovely. 155 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:29.759 Oh what was that? 156 00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:34.559 I think that's the noise that tells us it's time to move on and talk about the Daleks. 157 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:35.580 Ah, good, good. 158 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.139 Can we use it for other stories as well? 159 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.059 It's not the cake cue. 160 00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:40.500 It's not the cake cue. 161 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:49.620 Oh, listen, we haven't introduced the cake, which is, in fact, pecan slice prepared by my boyfriend, and we will be making the recipe available to you. 162 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.399 Moist and nutty, like most of this proceeding. 163 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:54.240 Yes, indeed. 164 00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:55.559 So let's have the noise again. 165 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.860 And it's time to talk about the Daleks. 166 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:00.299 Very 1st Dalek story. 167 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:01.740 Is it? 168 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:03.059 Oh, no, no, obviously. 169 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.259 Is it, but is it actually about the Duck X? 170 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:19.080 I actually, I would put it out there that it's the 1st story that isn't really about the Daleks at all, but it's in fact about a whole lot of other things and it really has nothing to do with the rest of the Dalek saga at all. 171 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:23.700 The Daleks only become the Daleks in the next story to follow, which we'll get to next year. 172 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:31.799 It's, for me, it's an interesting composition on what science fiction is on the telly in 1963, 64. 173 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:33.899 It's a soundscape and a lightscape. 174 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:41.519 It has much more to do with scoring and much more to do with visually playing around with what a TV show can do. 175 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:43.259 The Daleks themselves. 176 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:46.379 I'll leave it there for the moment and I'll get back to it. 177 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:46.919 What did you think? 178 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:56.759 Well, I think, I mean, clearly that 1st episode where it's just the regulars, um, or did I dream that? 179 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:59.279 No, it's just the regulars and the conjure. 180 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:02.220 Oh, and a hand and a metal lizard. 181 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:14.279 And and that really is, um, It is sort of about visuals, but you know, you've got a tiny telly in the corner of the room and so you're kind of very limited in the impact of the visuals. 182 00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:17.100 I'm jumping ahead into the centre of the story, yeah. 183 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:20.039 But, but, um, it is sound. 184 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:28.679 And certainly that the huge climactic scene at the end where Barbara is just being menaced by a whole bunch of doors and stuff. 185 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:37.500 But because the corridors are really interestingly shaped and because the sound is so good, it's really, really tense and quite terrifying. 186 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.100 And that, I mean, that cliffhanger is sort of unequal, isn't it? 187 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:42.419 Just utterly spectacular. 188 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:43.440 It's a beautiful thing. 189 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:58.080 It's probably worth noting at this point that, you know, we've mentioned Mervyn Penfield last time. in his featured in the adventures in time and space, as the inventor of the pinny prompter, as he called it, or the auto queue as everybody else. 190 00:15:58.139 --> 00:16:01.320 And there's that lovely moment where he's acknowledged for doing that. 191 00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:02.159 He was old school. 192 00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:11.879 Um, and But old school for the BBC in the late 50s, early 60s was actually still very expressive. and I've been hoping on about German expressionism. 193 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.159 I'm going to do that when we get to the sensor rights later on. 194 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:21.539 But there was a big thing in the BBC at the time with creating new visuals and new sounds. 195 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:27.659 So they were more interested in things like bringing those German expressionist ideas and new things. 196 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:39.059 So you get past, you get very VCUs, close-ups of people's faces, half a face, and you'll get a black curtain with white objects floating, like a Juan Mero image of to symbolise things. 197 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.919 It was actually very expressionistic. 198 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.080 And the new guys were saying, no, bugger that. 199 00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:43.740 Let's get some more. 200 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:46.440 Bug, we did feature in the BBC. 201 00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:50.220 Let's get some more, get some actual naturalism here. 202 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:55.679 So let's sort of have real-time real movement, have some real action, not quite so stagey. 203 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:56.940 So constructed. 204 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:09.720 So even though we see Pinfield as being old school, to our eyes, now he would probably be more animal guard than the new new school, which was make it real, make it natural, make it post John Osborn, give it a bit of kitchen sink realism. 205 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:15.420 I think the German expressionism you mentioned. does come back to that 1st episode. 206 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.519 It's very Dr. Kalagari. 207 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:20.759 And strange corridors, the shadows. 208 00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:21.779 Thank you. 209 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:30.299 That's what I wanted to say because Ray Kouzik was one of the new boys who was going for symbolism, rather than metaphor. 210 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.000 We'll get to this, if you want to get to it, we'll get to it later. 211 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:38.039 But Cusick's big hero, architecturally appears to be gaudy. 212 00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:40.680 The cars are familiar, the bus or anything. 213 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:43.980 But he has a trope with circles. 214 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.880 There are circles in the corridors of of power of the Dalek city. 215 00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:49.799 There's circles on the sensor right spaceship. 216 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:55.680 There's um, it's a, it's a nice kind of thing with, with, there's no right ankles. 217 00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:57.299 It's a semi-organic space. 218 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:04.619 The music then is music concrete, um, reinterpreted and um, carrying on by Tristan Carey's workshop. 219 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:14.460 We should maybe take a moment to just have a little worship of Tristan Carey and the extraordinary things he did for early electronic music. 220 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.359 Yes, it's just so it comes out of the atmosphere of the forest. 221 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:27.660 Like it's almost like it's a sound you could hear in the forest, but then it becomes a strange, unnatural sound and then it goes back into natural sound. 222 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:28.680 That's very unnerving. 223 00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:31.019 Very unnerving and there's very dreamlike space. 224 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:38.279 The whole thing and the way it's shot and the slowness and then the quickness of the camera cuts and the narrative itself is very odd. 225 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:40.259 It's a beautiful piece, that 1st episode. 226 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.160 Dead planet. 227 00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:44.039 Something that really affects me. 228 00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:56.339 Not having the same knowledge as you do about design and architecture, but the design of the Dalek city and those curved doorways, which then permeate throughout Dalek designs everywhere. 229 00:18:56.460 --> 00:19:01.500 You're sort of, it makes you feel uneasy. when you're watching. 230 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.259 Sounds and vision, you get everything on radio. 231 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.660 The rills have one of those. 232 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:10.380 Yes. 233 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:10.859 They do. 234 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:11.759 I don't know what it was. 235 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:13.680 Something that must come with alien garden centres. 236 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:15.000 That's it. 237 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:26.519 What is unnerving about those corridors and you don't necessarily pick up on it when you're watching it as a child because I think I 1st watched this story when I was about eight. 238 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:33.119 But as an adult, you suddenly realise it's unnerving because A human would not make those shapes. 239 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:38.940 A human would not have doors like that in, you know, just as a functional thing. 240 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:48.720 So who builds something to be that functional and it ends up being these aliens, the likes of which had never been seen. and has often been copied afterwards. 241 00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:52.680 And you know you've gotten iconic design when other people copy it. 242 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.980 So that that to me is. 243 00:19:56.220 --> 00:20:04.259 The immediate effect of that design, it just makes you feel uneasy because you can see that's a building. 244 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:05.460 You can see that's a doorway. 245 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:10.140 But why on earth would you design a doorway like that because you're not on earth, that's why. 246 00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:11.880 Exactly. 247 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.160 Makes me pretty pictures too. 248 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:14.759 Yes. 249 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.359 I mean, that looks spectacular, though. end of the scene. 250 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:21.059 So does it all go to hell when the Daleks appear in episode two? 251 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.160 Um, I don't think so. 252 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:23.460 No. 253 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:33.960 But I do agree with the critique by Cornell Day and topping in the discontinuity guide, which is it's a 7 part story and it's a story of 2 halves. 254 00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:46.259 And for the 1st 4 episodes, You have this sort of tense, almost a thriller, um, based on, What will alien life actually be like? 255 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:50.759 Will it be so different to us that it is impossible to have anything up than hostility? 256 00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:52.619 You know, it's very thought provoking sci-fi. 257 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:57.480 And the last 3 episodes are Flash Gordon, Dan, Dan making our way across dangerous landscapes. 258 00:20:57.539 --> 00:20:58.980 Both halves are very good. 259 00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:11.099 And it's interesting because it sets up the 2 kinds of science fiction that Doctor Who will do and eventually meld, which is the thought-provoking allegorical science fiction. 260 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:23.039 I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that Terry Nation got the idea of the Daleks and their dependence on their dependence on... static electricity and radiation from the 2nd World War. 261 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:23.880 Yeah. 262 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:29.460 How much of that is Whitaker, though, because he's such a thing on static electricity. 263 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:33.420 And then pairing that with sci-fi runaround. 264 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:34.559 Yeah. 265 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:40.200 And, you know, in this in this case, they're almost entirely split up, but in the future, they would be melded together. 266 00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:46.259 And so is episodes 2 to 4 racist. 267 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:53.700 See, I don't, I, you know, I know that the Daleks are based on fascism and Nazism. 268 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.859 This is where I would question that. 269 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:56.759 Are they? 270 00:21:56.819 --> 00:22:02.940 Or is that a reconning from Nation when he gets 1975 with Genesis of the Daleks? 271 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:23.220 Because at this point, when we look at what's going on with communism and the split from China's CPC and Russia's Soviet state, only just having occurred in the last decade, we've got things like, and we'll get to this with sensorites and reign of terror where you're getting this commentary on what's happening right now. 272 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:25.259 I think the Daleks symbolise communism. 273 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:30.059 It's the straight down the line, it's the lack of individual personality. 274 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:34.140 It's all the fears, the very Huxley-like fears of what communism would say. 275 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.480 And I think people have kind of moved on at this stage. 276 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:38.339 The war, although it was 20 years ago. 277 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:43.259 With the rapidity of cultural changes, it was seen as something that happened back then. 278 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:55.740 The threat here and now was the Cold War, was nuclear, as you say, nuclear holocaust, and this distalt state of being a nothingness that is communism. 279 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:57.960 There are no individuals, there's just the state. 280 00:22:58.019 --> 00:23:10.140 It was pretty terrifying for the West who still had its fundament in the humanities to see that a machine state, which is kind of what communism was certainly meant to be. 281 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.839 Mao talked about the great leap forward. 282 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:14.700 Yeah, it's not just a Billy Bragg song. 283 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:26.759 In 58 that these five-year plan of massive pogroms against the people and enforced um, enforced famine, actually, deliberately going around and doing horrid things to people. 284 00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:44.160 Um, and denying them, denying them that the, the, their own crops lying in their own food, taking half of the, the reserves and putting it into central storage seems to be kind of a symbol between the wandering files and the centrist government of the Dalek city. 285 00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:53.400 I also think, though, I mean, you know, the whole thing goes back to the time machine, you know, where you have humanity splits into 2 into 2 races. 286 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:56.819 And the film makes that much more about... 287 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.660 Oh, well, you know, it's it's A she whales and all of that sort of thing. 288 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:02.519 So it's about class in HG Wells. 289 00:24:02.579 --> 00:24:03.180 Do you know what I mean? 290 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:13.920 The aristocrats turning to the Eloy, who can't even speak, you know, um, and, you know, they, they lounge around by the river eating river fruits and that kind of thing. 291 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.579 And someone falls in and starts to drown and they're like, oh, dear. 292 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:22.259 And yeah. and then you've got the morox morons. 293 00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:23.880 Morlocks, thank you. 294 00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:27.539 And they're industrial workshop people and all of that sort of thing. 295 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:32.460 So you've got you've got, um, and it seems to me that he's got the idea from that. 296 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:40.559 So the thals are... blonde white people who Susan recognises as being perfect. 297 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.039 Scandalwegian. 298 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:48.539 Yeah, it's very much George Powell's time machine of the 50s, yeah. 299 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:54.720 And then, you know, you've got the morally corrupt, ugly people. 300 00:24:54.779 --> 00:25:02.339 I mean, I think I think it's at least slightly accidentally racist in that. the thals are all blonde white people. 301 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:18.480 And maybe maybe we go back and think of the Daleks as a Nazi analogue just to kind of expunge from our memory how Aryan, the conception of the files is in its in its original, even in the Planet of the Daleks. 302 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.140 Bernard, horseful in a blonde wig. 303 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:22.920 Do you know what I mean? 304 00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:24.660 Like everyone's horribly blonde. 305 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.180 You know. 306 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.460 So, I mean, I think there is something... 307 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:31.200 They're horribly blind. 308 00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:33.240 I think that's the title of this episode. 309 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.319 We can get a musical. 310 00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:39.359 A broadband... 311 00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:43.859 Yeah, so I think I think the racism is inadvertent, but it is kind of weirdly there. 312 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:53.400 Um, uh, and and I think that, like all of Terry Nation stuff, it's all just a bit less clever than it would like to think it is. 313 00:25:53.460 --> 00:26:06.779 And so, you know, that whole thing, the, you know, evil science fiction monsters on one hand and beautiful people is all sort of really very much being done before. 314 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:11.339 And the thing that really lifts it is that the Daleks are fantastic. 315 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.140 You know, they just look great. 316 00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.940 The voices are perfect. 317 00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:16.380 They do look lovely. 318 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:30.180 It's probably worth noting at this point that Mervyn Pinfield did suggest to, um, Cusick, that the Daleks could actually be actors in silver painted cardboard tubes on their arms and legs, just like you can do to cats with smarty toes. 319 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:33.660 And that would be... to do to cats. 320 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.559 Yeah, it's fantastic. 321 00:26:34.619 --> 00:26:40.500 But to do to actors and maybe I don't think we'd quite have the series. kind of the 60s cyberman really, though, isn't it? 322 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.440 Yeah, it's very German theatre. 323 00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:47.400 Thank you, Raven. sticking to your guys. 324 00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.740 Or you, Georgian state dances. 325 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:54.240 Now, there is something that was, I think, meant to happen in the story. 326 00:26:54.240 --> 00:27:07.380 And I can't remember at the moment, whether it was Inter Nation's original script, but got cut because people thought it would be too subtle, or if it's something David Whitaker introduced in the novelisation, because it's been about 2 years since I last read it. 327 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:13.500 But during the conversation where Susan finally meets Aladdin. 328 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.920 She says, they said you were mutations, but you're not. 329 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:17.519 You're beautiful. 330 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:23.880 Either in the original script or in the novelisation, Aladdin actually says, what do you mean we're beautiful, we're hideous? 331 00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:26.339 Because that's... reading that as well. 332 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:27.720 I think that's in the Whittaker. 333 00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:28.079 Oh okay. 334 00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:29.160 Yeah, it's not in the script. 335 00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:33.059 I thought she said you're perfect, which is just... 336 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:34.200 Yes, not a little girl anymore. 337 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.660 Okay, so the Whittaker novelisation. 338 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:49.019 And that's a very interesting concept that what is a human notion of beauty is not the thoul notion of beauty. 339 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:55.440 To them, they are mutations and maybe they did have 4 eyes and 3 noses before and to them that was beautiful. 340 00:27:55.500 --> 00:28:11.039 Um, That actually brings me to the 1st of several moments I'm going to mention because I've actually been for the last year and a half sitting down with my boyfriend and we've been watching one or 2 episodes of Doctor Who were Knights. where currently halfway through Tom Baker. 341 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:13.500 But I've been taking notes on what he says. 342 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:34.200 So if you could just pass me that notebook next to you, because I've, um, I've chosen a few key things, he said, and one of them is from Daleks, um, where all I've written is the note homoeroticism, which I think he was mainly relating to Antidus and Ganitus, um, the 2 brothers who were constantly moaning to each other. 343 00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:38.519 I don't I don't think he was actually being serious, but I think he just kind of went at one point. 344 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:44.460 Okay, so we have 2 muscular blonde boys in leather trousers with holes cut out fighting on the side of a beach. 345 00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:47.279 No, I... 346 00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:48.359 No, no. 347 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:53.279 No, neither can I. But, you know, there's so much to interpret, isn't there? 348 00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:54.900 And that's the thing. 349 00:28:54.960 --> 00:29:05.940 I thought it would be interesting to occasionally bring up Rod's observations because although he's been a casual viewer, really, he was watching his 1st memories of Doctor Who are watching 1st round Patrick Troughton. 350 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:06.900 That's pretty interesting. 351 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:11.099 Yeah, um, see to death is his 1st memory of Doctor. 352 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:11.700 How do you know that? 353 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.359 Just the foam. 354 00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:14.339 I remember the doctor struggling through foam. 355 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:15.900 That's what he remembers. 356 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:21.059 He remembers the doctor struggling through foam, the bubble blowing up behind him and the ice warrior silhouetted coming over the hill. 357 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:26.640 But I thought it'd be interesting to throw in his observations occasionally because unlike us, he doesn't live eat and breathe. 358 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.779 The series. 359 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:30.779 Well, it sounds like he does if he's up to Tom Baker. 360 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:36.059 Oh, but yeah, but, you know, he couldn't, for instance, we were watching an episode of The Avengers morning. 361 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:37.140 He says, oh, I know that guy. 362 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:38.519 He's been in other Avengers episodes. 363 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:39.839 I said he was in Spearhead from Space. 364 00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:42.779 He played Channing, who was assisting the... 365 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:43.559 Oh yes, that's right. 366 00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:44.759 Yeah. 367 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:45.240 Yeah. 368 00:29:45.299 --> 00:29:47.640 So he's not a sad sack, right? 369 00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:49.980 So anything else to say on the Dialects traps? 370 00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.500 Well, I mean, the last 3 episodes are boring, are they? 371 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:57.240 Well, they're not boring so much as they're, you know, they're standard sci-fi fair. 372 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:04.380 As we can see from the film version and we'll be doing a podcast for the films later, as we can see from the film version. 373 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:05.759 Yes, I just decided that now. 374 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.700 A lot of the story. 375 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:16.799 A lot of the film version of the story is devoted to that trek through the tunnel sequence because that's the action event. 376 00:30:16.859 --> 00:30:18.240 You know? 377 00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:19.140 Is it done well? 378 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:24.720 Because I mean, it is sort of a bit tiresome in that tiny lime grove studio on a BBC budget. 379 00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:27.299 I think just for 3 episodes, it works. 380 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:32.099 You know, it doesn't, it doesn't require too much mental power, but it doesn't outstay its welcome. 381 00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:39.059 And it does give the doctor a chance to be more heroic. because when he realises the dialects are going to blow up the bomb and destroy everyone. 382 00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:41.880 He says, look, I have this amazing ship. 383 00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:42.660 I will show it to you. 384 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.799 And I'll show you how it works and I'll tell you its secrets, but you have to not kill everyone. 385 00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:50.579 And later on, like in the colour era when the Daleks want the TARDIS. 386 00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.900 The doctor's like, no, fine, kill everyone. 387 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:52.920 I'm not giving you the TARDIS. 388 00:30:53.339 --> 00:31:02.460 And I suppose since he started by being so naughty and selfish in sort of episode one, When's the fluid link come up, episode two? 389 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:07.019 So he has been naughty, so he probably does need to redeem himself with something heroic at the end. 390 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.140 And I think the end is pretty good. 391 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.980 Or the, we're in the control room. 392 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.680 Yeah, there's some cardboard Daleks up against the wall. 393 00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.680 You know, I think the end sort of works. 394 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:23.460 But the 3 episodes sort of leading up to it, I think, a bit of a trial. 395 00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:29.640 So, there's that noise again. 396 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:33.480 So time to go on to the edge of destruction. 397 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:35.819 Right. 398 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:43.859 So, um, 2 episodes written in a hurry to varying stories, the sets for Marco Polo weren't ready yet. 399 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:47.039 They needed to make up 13 episodes just in case they got cancelled. 400 00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:50.339 All they had with a regulars because they'd spent so much money on the Daleks. 401 00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:51.059 Call it what you will. 402 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.319 We got 2 episodes set inside the TARDIS with only the 4 regulars. 403 00:31:55.380 --> 00:32:00.119 And if you'll indulge me for a moment, I just like to say how I 1st came to this story. 404 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:03.359 It was actually reading Nigel Robinson's novelisation. 405 00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:06.180 It's a good, good place to discuss. 406 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.019 It's brilliant. 407 00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:14.460 And there's this really tense and scary couple of chapters where the doctor and Ian go down to the tons engine rooms. 408 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.619 And it's all steampunk, right? 409 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:18.180 It's brass and... 410 00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:28.319 Brass and Ian can hear all these noises and so the doctor goes off in front of him, but then to the side of him, Ian sees shadows and people moving about and it's just so scary and tense. 411 00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:31.559 So then I got... and very well zoomed. 412 00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:33.240 Very, very well said. 413 00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:42.299 And then I got the copy on video, which was like a 3rd generation snowballed copy and the doctor and Anne go off to check the systems. 414 00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:46.740 I'm like, yeah, and then there's a conversation between Barbara and Susan, and then we cut to the doctor and Ian in front of the fort. 415 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:48.059 Okay, they're saying, no, everything's fine. 416 00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:54.180 So to say I was a little disappointed with the televised version. 417 00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:01.619 You've hit something right there that's so much that we can see now being able to review and rewatch these. 418 00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:15.900 May have had parallel with the way viewers watched them then in that they had to use their imaginations and being able to only see something once. 419 00:33:16.019 --> 00:33:19.740 You rewrite it in your head and your memory is not very much of what you've seen anyway. 420 00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:21.420 You've got a 2nd narrative. 421 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.039 If you've already seen the thing once. 422 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:23.460 Exactly. 423 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:29.460 So that engine room thing may well be a memory for some viewers who assumed that to be there. 424 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.900 And it's a really nice way of seeing it. 425 00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:39.059 Being able to go back and look at things and hypercritique them as, you know, we possibly are doing, is if you want to be critical, is. 426 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:43.319 In a way, it's it's unnatural. 427 00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:47.579 It's, it's against the, it's against the viewing principle or the way that we did it at the time. 428 00:33:47.640 --> 00:34:09.300 I think the hard thing to do is actually to try and forget everything in the subsequent sort of 48 years of Doctor Who when you're watching. watching it, you know, um, I've just been watching Time Medler and the, and the, the summary, like the plot synopsis, describes the monk as another time lord. 429 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.840 And it just makes me very cross because they haven't been invented yet. 430 00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:16.559 Yeah, that's not how we're meant to see the doctor's planet. 431 00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:18.179 That's all you need to know. 432 00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:30.239 And so all of the stuff about the TARDIS and and, and, you know, all those years and years of, it's very hard not to sort of bring that back in to while you're watching it. 433 00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:33.360 And, I don't know. 434 00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:41.519 Again, like I don't want to be really critical because I really like seasons one and 2 a lot and I love the Heart and Oleera. really enjoying it. 435 00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:45.780 Um, but I actually think this one's a bit rough as well. 436 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:51.960 And I think the reason is that it never really becomes clear what we're trying to do. 437 00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:54.840 So we get we get lots of sort of weird moments. 438 00:34:54.900 --> 00:35:01.320 We get Susan sort of stamping the, the, um, chair, she stabs a chair. 439 00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:02.880 Or whatever. 440 00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:06.960 And all of that sort of thing, but it's still not very clear what's going on. 441 00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:20.159 Like they've sort of lost their memory or are they sort of possessed and and it's clearly presented as a possibility, um, you know, Susan theorises that someone's in the TARDIS hiding inside them. 442 00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:30.059 And so it's something that we're supposed to be considering, but it's not really done very clearly and it's never really resolved. 443 00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:34.139 And we don't know why Ian's been behaving like an idiot like at the beginning. 444 00:35:34.260 --> 00:35:35.460 I think William Russell knew either. 445 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.599 Judging by his performance. 446 00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:40.139 It's very strange and it does sort of undermine it a little bit. 447 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:45.960 And again, in the novelisation, the great thing in the novelisation is there's that chapter and it's set in the coal hill room. 448 00:35:46.019 --> 00:35:48.119 Yeah, which is... 449 00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:53.099 Which explains why Ian and Barbara are so detached in the 1st scene. 450 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:57.900 Yeah, because, you know, because they just think they're in the staffroom and there's someone sick on the floor in the staffroom. 451 00:35:57.960 --> 00:35:58.619 Oh, no, okay. 452 00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:00.239 Yeah, we've got to deal with that, but don't panic. 453 00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:01.139 Yeah. 454 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:04.500 Because there's a moment where Barbara suddenly goes, of course, we're in the tardise. 455 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:08.639 And that's the 1st inkling you've had that she didn't realise she was in the top. 456 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:14.159 So it is like it doesn't quite, it doesn't quite work. 457 00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:23.400 And, you know, the resolution is sort of slightly silly and things and, you know, like the fast return switch. 458 00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:32.340 Like, you know, I know it's been said a 100 times before, but he could have just pressed that before and taken them home or like pressed it a bunch of times. 459 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:40.860 Maybe it's only got one memory, like an old pocket calculator, you know, but then there is something sort of magical about it still, though, I think. 460 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:48.059 Yeah, and I think I think it's because it helps solidify the character's relationships. 461 00:36:48.119 --> 00:37:00.360 And I think, especially it's the 1st moment where Barbara really becomes the Barbara, we think of, when we think of the series, when she stands up to the doctor and says, you stupid old man, you'd be dead if it wasn't. 462 00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:01.559 Can you do that now, Judith Lucy? 463 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:03.539 You stupid old man. 464 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:08.460 You'd be dead if Ian hadn't made fire for you in the cave of skulls. 465 00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:13.260 That can't ever happen again. so beautiful. 466 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:19.739 Actually, I think I've got a friend who's made of of dudes, this will be sent to him. 467 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:20.880 And I just... 468 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:21.960 I do do cross plate. 469 00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:27.059 So, you know, I could cosplay. and it will happen, folks. 470 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:29.579 And there will be pictures on the interweb. 471 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:49.920 A lovely thing you mentioned about Ian that you just reminded me is Nathan was talking last week about the setup of the characters and the internal dynamics and the tensions between them when we were going to have instead of Barbara and Ian, Cliff and Lola McGovern, they were much younger characters. 472 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.539 Lola was about 23. 473 00:37:51.719 --> 00:38:03.900 Cliff was going to be about 28 and and standby for your icky factor to go off, the 2 women were supposed to have a sexual frisson for the cliff character. 474 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:05.820 Oh, yeah, a bit of a love trying. 475 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:11.940 Exactly, and have to resolve that, and this story would have been that place where that would have come up and been resolved. 476 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:22.800 So there's a whole lot of Freud going on with those scissors and sometimes a pair of scissors is just a pair of scissors, going into the sofa, the sofa behind which the rest of us are cowering in Freudian shame. 477 00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:27.360 I don't really want to explore that any further and I'm really glad it didn't happen. 478 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:34.380 But I'm kind of getting maybe Ian is kind of where am I right now because if that had stayed in there? 479 00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.019 I get the sense of watching Edge of Destruction. 480 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:46.679 There's a whole lot of other things that were lying on the cutting room floor again, those scissors that didn't make it to the screen and actually the fact that it's so confusing and it is actually hard to watch. 481 00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:47.880 It's not just the pace of it. 482 00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:54.179 And it's not just the lighting, which is really, you know, if you've eaten a lot of cheese before you've gone to bed, you've probably had visions not that dissimilar. 483 00:38:54.239 --> 00:39:02.639 The fact that it's all so disjointed and really isn't making sense, even even internally, even unto its own story, it's just not making sense. 484 00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:04.739 I mean, its performance kind of works for me for that. 485 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:06.179 Yeah, yeah. 486 00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:13.559 I mean, the thing is, it's kind of like William Russell is such a good actor and so much fun to watch that even when he's not giving a very good performance. 487 00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:15.420 He's still very entertaining. 488 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:19.079 And centred and is the a surety in the narrative. 489 00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.019 He's the one that is actually the really the male lead. 490 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:30.000 Billy's just silly old grandpa sitting on the sofa at home, as most people who are watching this would have, you know, we forget that it was a different life, then different countries. 491 00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:33.239 We didn't tend to have more old older people in the family home. 492 00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:34.199 It was usually their home. 493 00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:34.800 So... 494 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:39.599 They were sitting on the sofa grumbling and making noises, just like Billy. 495 00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:44.280 Just as Ian is the hero, this is the story where Barbara becomes like the moral centre of the group. 496 00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:50.340 Because in the Daleks, when it's revealed, oh, the fluid link is left behind and they're like, what do we do? 497 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.659 The doctor and Barbara, just say, oh, we'll use the files to get it for us and then we'll nick off. 498 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.840 And Ian's one each other and says, well, no, we've got to set them free as well. 499 00:39:57.900 --> 00:39:58.679 And Barbara says, why? 500 00:39:58.739 --> 00:39:59.340 Yeah. 501 00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:03.599 And she gets quite cross at him and he's like the 1st lover's teeth, isn't it? 502 00:40:03.659 --> 00:40:07.739 Yeah, but here it's like she's kind of gone... 503 00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:11.400 She's standing up for herself, but she's standing up for Ian as well as incapacitated. 504 00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:17.940 But what she's really standing up for is we didn't ask to be in this situation, but we have helped you. 505 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:18.960 You have helped us. 506 00:40:19.019 --> 00:40:19.860 We have helped each other. 507 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.199 We cannot turn on each other now. 508 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:30.539 And it's kind of then returned in that lovely scene at the end where the doctor comes to her and apologises and says, you know what? 509 00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:31.500 You were completely right. 510 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:33.719 You've saved all our lives. 511 00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:35.219 I was so foolish. 512 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:38.760 And she's just like, what, why are you even talking to me? 513 00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:41.039 And he says, look, you've taught me something about myself? 514 00:40:41.219 --> 00:40:43.500 And I want to return the favour. 515 00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:55.199 And I'm actually getting I'm actually getting a little lump in my throat talking about it because it's such a beautiful scene and I have a theory that the 1st doctor is in love with Barbara and I think it's... be. 516 00:40:55.260 --> 00:41:09.300 Can you imagine a series set up in the as it is now on the modern premise where it's just the doctor and the stolen younger female companion if it actually had just been Billy and Jackie. for that season without the other two. 517 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.219 I think it would have been a really interesting program. 518 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:15.480 Well, look at all, we'll get to this in a few minutes, but look at all their scenes together in the Aztecs. 519 00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:16.320 I can't wait. 520 00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:19.019 Yeah, all their scenes together and everything. 521 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:19.860 Do you know what I mean? 522 00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:22.860 That's the, I think that's the big win of Edge of Destruction. 523 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:33.659 I don't think it works, but I think it the fact that it ends with 2 spectacular scenes with Jackie and Billy that that really redeems it. 524 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:39.059 And as you said, every time they're on screen together talking to one another, they're just superb. 525 00:41:39.059 --> 00:41:40.739 Absolutely superb. 526 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:46.199 And well, as we're talking about character, let's move on to one of the biggest character pieces in the whole season. 527 00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:48.480 Marco Polo. 528 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:02.760 Oh, echopanthic... 529 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:11.400 What if that gets discovered and returned to the BBC between now our recording and your editing and putting it up on the... 530 00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.039 Well, I'll look even sillier, which is kind of the point. 531 00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:16.199 I'll put in a little disclaimer. 532 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:19.679 And then we can add it to an addendum for the season 2 podcast. 533 00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:20.760 Okay, there we go. 534 00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.559 Easy, easy. easy. 535 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:23.159 I do want it back. 536 00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:24.420 I really... 537 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.000 Do you know, I had never ever seen it before. 538 00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:30.480 And it's one of these things where... 539 00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:39.420 Like I've only listened to a few on audio, like Galaxy 4 and Dialect Masterpie and things, but I'd never even listen to it on audio. 540 00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:48.900 And I have this thing because I'm deeply shallow and childish that if they don't have monsters in them, I'm not quite so interested. 541 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:53.219 This will come up later when we talk about the Aztecs, tragically. 542 00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.340 And so I'd never been sort of really highly motivated. 543 00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:59.880 And then again, I read Sandov's thing and Sandov is sort of a bit dismissive of it. 544 00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:06.780 And so I am doing what you're doing, Brandon, which is watching it all the way through. 545 00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:12.119 Um, Uh, and I'm just up to season three. 546 00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:13.380 So I'm just slightly behind you. 547 00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:14.400 Just a list one. 548 00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:22.199 I am going to give up work, though, so that I can so that I can keep up with the podcast, all right, over the next few months. 549 00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:23.940 Well, I would expect nothing. 550 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.599 No, well, yeah. 551 00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:30.719 And so this was the 1st recon that I had ever watched, you know, and I was really nervous about it. 552 00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:35.639 The recons, like this, for those of you at home who aren't aware of this loose cannon, whoever they are. 553 00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:37.260 I'm sure they're lovely. 554 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.900 They get all of the sort of surviving footage, all of these sort of publicity photos. 555 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:44.639 They get the soundtrack. 556 00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:49.019 Every soundtrack to every episode exists and they created a video of it. 557 00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:53.639 And originally, originally you had to email them a videotape. 558 00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:55.079 No, I don't think you can do that. 559 00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:56.159 I think it does. 560 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:57.239 It's very modern. 561 00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:00.000 You had to post them a videotape. 562 00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:03.539 And they would copy it on and send it back to you. 563 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:04.559 Happy days. 564 00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:10.380 Now, don't tell anyone, but due to the magic of the internet, a lot of these are available on YouTube. 565 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.300 Will we be able to post a link to this in our friendly happy podcast page? 566 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:16.199 We may well. 567 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:17.340 I'll take a note. 568 00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:19.079 It doesn't infringe anyone's copyright. 569 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:20.579 It's just a YouTube link. 570 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:27.840 So I watched it for the 1st time and I thought I'm not going to make it through a recon because that's going to be terribly boring. 571 00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:30.840 But in fact, it was just spectacular. 572 00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:36.239 And it's partly because the visuals are so stunning. 573 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:39.719 And it's really, really heavily photographed. 574 00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.179 There's stacks and stacks. 575 00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:43.860 And beautiful colour photos. 576 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.119 They really went all out on it. 577 00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:46.679 Oh, no, I'm a bit of a purist. 578 00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:47.159 I wouldn't watch. 579 00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:48.659 What's the colour phase? 580 00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:49.559 There is a version. 581 00:44:49.800 --> 00:45:01.079 It's an interesting thing, though, if we can just segue the performances in this, from what you're saying, like, look, okay, I have to admit, I've listened to the audio many, many times and I've looked at the images, but I haven't watched the loose cannons. 582 00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:14.820 So I find that when I'm listening to it, and I have just an audio experience of it, and that really nice Lucaroti novel, yay, John Lucaroti, everything he touches is gold until other people get their hands on it, I still like to think that his work is pure, we'll get to reign of terror later. 583 00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:16.380 Yeah, what about Eric the Red? 584 00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:17.099 wasn't that one? 585 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:19.559 Yeah That was one of his. 586 00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:26.460 It's an interesting thing that the BBC was going for really highly saturated sets. 587 00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:29.099 Even the Daleks had lots of lovely cyan blue all over it. 588 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:33.599 It wasn't just, it was more like Jane Mansfield's swimming pool. 589 00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:35.219 Yeah, it wasn't tech gray, the sets at all. 590 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:38.519 The floor was a beautiful, shiny sign, poured floor blue. 591 00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:43.739 Um, and the people go in and repaint that every day while it was during the shooting. 592 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:45.119 It's lovely glossy blue. 593 00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:45.840 Yeah. 594 00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:58.199 ITV at the same time, you know, whilst this series was on, was repeating episodes of the Buccaneers, which was already five, six, 7 years old, their sets were largely monochromatic. 595 00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:04.199 They had this thing of the directors of producers, whoever was in charge at the time, saying, I want to see exactly how it's going to go out. 596 00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:11.039 And I can't imagine that the performances you were getting on the rival network were just a little flattered because of it. 597 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:16.079 Are you saying that they were like, that it was like, like the Buccaneers, I don't know anything about that. 598 00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:16.920 Is that the past? 599 00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:18.480 Are they pirates? 600 00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:20.519 I haven't seen it. 601 00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:31.320 It's just one of those things that, you know, British television at the time was largely fun historicals and nice ladies telling children how to play with rob puppets. 602 00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:32.280 Are they sitting? 603 00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.719 Oh, like, what would be your favourite, yes. 604 00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:38.280 So, but you're saying that they would do these sets, you know, it'd be the past, right? 605 00:46:38.340 --> 00:46:41.820 And but the set would all be painted in various shades of... 606 00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:50.159 There was more than one major direct major producer on the ITV networks who were saying, well, see, the cameras, we've got to remember, the tech wasn't there and you would strobe. 607 00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:59.039 So you'd get one of the few concessions that be made was that you never had pure wine in costumes, but the richness of the colours. 608 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:13.260 And they understood they were a lot more cinematic, a lot more older people involved with the tech of it, saying, you know, it works, we've been shooting cinema in Britain for a long time in monochrome, but using colour sets, you don't get the depths of greys if you don't use colours. 609 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.739 It actually doesn't transpose as well onto videotape. 610 00:47:16.860 --> 00:47:19.019 ITV wasn't getting that. 611 00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:24.119 Maybe there's just thinking maybe there's something in this lovely richness you get at the performances. 612 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:26.460 In Marco Polo, and they are. 613 00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:27.719 They're really great to just listen to it. 614 00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:29.340 You don't get that so much on. 615 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:36.239 Well, it does look like this sort of lavish period piece despite the fact that it is, you know, just sets and they're all gray. 616 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:44.400 And I, like I said, there is a colour version, but I wasn't going to watch it because that seemed to violate the spirit of things. 617 00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:47.820 But it looks really spectacular. 618 00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:49.800 It's terribly fun. 619 00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:53.820 There's a lot of time for the regulars to do things because there's not that much plot. 620 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:59.159 Um, And so there's sort of lots of interplay between the characters. 621 00:47:59.219 --> 00:48:01.920 The villain is great, the guy who plays Tagan. 622 00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:02.699 Darren Nesbit. 623 00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:03.659 He's terrific. 624 00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:04.260 Oh, good. 625 00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:05.940 He was the Sean Bean of his generation. 626 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.119 He crops up in the prisoner and lots of ITV series. 627 00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:13.139 He's always the bloke who appears to be a friend, but just don't because he'll cross you. 628 00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:14.340 No, he's terrific. 629 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.280 He doesn't and he's not like a moustache twirling villain, particularly. 630 00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.139 He's sort of fairly straight down. 631 00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:24.119 And his motives are purely political and for his own he's his own people, his own nation. 632 00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:26.519 Yeah, he's strapping down and... 633 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:29.699 Well, evidently, as you do, like covering with ants. 634 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.679 Is that No, no, no, I dream that. 635 00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:32.519 That's the crusade. 636 00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:33.480 Okay, good, all right. 637 00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:35.880 It's coming, folks. 638 00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:40.619 When we do go up to the Crusade, I've got an interesting story about that scene, but we'll leave that for them. 639 00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:40.980 Thank you. 640 00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:44.519 I have actually seen the colour version of Marco Polo. 641 00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:46.800 The reconstruction, everyone. 642 00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:49.019 I do not, I do not, I do not have it. 643 00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:50.219 Please don't check me. 644 00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:53.820 No, the I've seen the colour reconstruction. 645 00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:55.380 And it is... 646 00:48:55.380 --> 00:49:00.239 As you say, those sets, the costumes, they're just sumptuous. 647 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:01.739 They are. 648 00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:04.559 It's begging to be a musical, isn't it? 649 00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:07.079 And yet, thankfully, it never quite means. 650 00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:09.659 Although, although... it looks like the king and Ar. 651 00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:11.219 Although, shall we now... 652 00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:12.360 Zen... 653 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.260 Some fantastic dance number. and that's the main reason why... 654 00:49:16.260 --> 00:49:20.099 A lovely homaged Caroline Ford's moment in her hopefully child. 655 00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:21.599 Only good, probably. 656 00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:35.039 I mean, that's the thing that I would really like to see because again, you know, you see a still, and then this text crawls along the bottom of the screen saying Pingcho does a fabulous dance sequence in which, and that's really all you care. 657 00:49:35.099 --> 00:49:41.519 It's so strange because Doctor Who was meant to have a radio times cover for an unearthly child and it got bumped for something else. 658 00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:44.880 They gave them the radio times cover for Marco Polo's head. 659 00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:47.579 And that's why story is so heavily photographed. 660 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:59.579 Except it seems for this one dance sequence, they took 3 photographs of this 3 minute dance routine all about Assassins and what they spoke and where the word comes from kiddies. 661 00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:03.840 And this is an example of... 662 00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:08.639 Yeah, Ian at one point says, do you know we still use the word hashish today in English, Susan? 663 00:50:08.699 --> 00:50:11.760 1964 Britain come round, I'll show you. 664 00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:13.320 They didn't explain. 665 00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:17.820 Yeah, exactly. is still very much alive and contactable. 666 00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:22.860 I think it would be onerous of us not to seek her out and ask her what her memory is. 667 00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:23.460 She could do it. 668 00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:25.380 She would do it for what he created. 669 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.800 She, I'm sure I'm sure she has cam on her laptop. 670 00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:30.119 She'd be upset. 671 00:50:30.179 --> 00:50:32.519 She's a game girl. reenacting. 672 00:50:32.579 --> 00:50:33.539 Oh, really? 673 00:50:33.539 --> 00:50:36.059 Nobody mentioned Space 1999. she'll be up for it. 674 00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:41.039 She married, she married Nigel Havers and Sarah Jane Smith in the... 675 00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:42.840 She was the celibate, yes. 676 00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:52.380 And she was an old, the magical old woman in the cave of Menligato in Wizards versus Aliens in the 2nd series of Wizards versus Aliens. 677 00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:53.880 So and she's fabulous. 678 00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:55.199 I mean, she is just terrific. 679 00:50:55.260 --> 00:51:08.039 And she was always my favourite thing in space 1999 and one of the heartbreaking things about that show limping towards the end of the 2nd season is that she disappears from it, like everyone else. 680 00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:11.639 Well, you may not know this, but this is a nice little coder to that. 681 00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:15.960 About 10 years ago, this huge space 1999 convention was on. 682 00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:18.119 I think it was the 30th anniversary or something. 683 00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:24.960 And they got her in costume against a flat recording a message saying, we found a planet. 684 00:51:25.019 --> 00:51:26.340 We're about to go settle on it. 685 00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:28.980 This is the last transmission from Moonbase Alpha. 686 00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:32.519 And she says stuff about people who, like she explains how people have died. 687 00:51:32.579 --> 00:51:35.159 Yeah, yeah, you know, such and such as died and da, da, da. 688 00:51:35.219 --> 00:51:40.440 And I could be wrong, but I think they did that for the cast members who had passed on. 689 00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:41.699 Oh, lovely. 690 00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.300 We'll find it. 691 00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:43.619 We'll find a clip if we can. 692 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:51.659 It was also something about how it was the, anyway, we're getting far away from things, but the planet meta, that they detect the metal planet. 693 00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:52.739 Get it, get it. 694 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.139 They detect the signal from it in the 1st episode. 695 00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:56.820 They do, and I think that's where they end up setting it. 696 00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:57.480 Yeah, yeah. 697 00:51:57.780 --> 00:51:59.280 Hurrah. 698 00:51:59.340 --> 00:52:00.420 Not many people know that. 699 00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:06.480 To finish talking about Marco Polo, I just want to go back to something I said about the edge of destruction. 700 00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:16.440 At the end, the doctor says to Barbara as a way of sort of saying, as a way of saying, sorry, he says, as we learn about each other, so we learn about ourselves, you teach me something, I'll teach you something. 701 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:20.760 And that is really what happens over the course of Marco Polo. 702 00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:29.159 You know, Barbara's tirade at the doctor in Edge of Destruction. makes him take Ian and Barbara seriously. 703 00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:41.460 And then over the course of Marco Polo, you see them working together and each of them sort of has a function like Susan keeps them in a far better position than they would be because she has her friendship with Pincho and Pincho is able to talk to Marco. 704 00:52:41.940 --> 00:52:46.019 Ian and Marco developer a relationship and a friendship. 705 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:52.980 The doctor and Ian figure out what Tagana's up to and realise, look, Marco won't believe us, but we'll do our best to protect him. 706 00:52:53.039 --> 00:53:02.340 And Barbara also sort of helps Marco to understand, you know, we're not spirits, but at the same time, yes, you're right. 707 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:03.480 We're not of your world. 708 00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:05.880 And the interesting thing about Barbara, there is. 709 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.039 She never talks down to Marco. 710 00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:08.760 Never. 711 00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:13.139 Because, of course, of course, the doctor does because he nicks the doctor's TARDIS. 712 00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:17.400 But, and this would become a habit of Barbara's character. 713 00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:22.980 A bit a bit like Emma Peel would be later because Emma Peel didn't didn't exist yet. 714 00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:24.719 You know, she meets all... 715 00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.039 That Gale was an anthropologist. 716 00:53:26.099 --> 00:53:27.719 Yeah, Kathy, that's true. 717 00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:32.099 Um, Kathy Goer was Steve's companion in the Avengers, which you just know. 718 00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:32.820 Yes, indeed. 719 00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:33.780 After this. 720 00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:34.679 But that's the thing. 721 00:53:34.739 --> 00:53:41.820 Barbara, Barbara accepts the people they meet for the intelligence of their own ears. 722 00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:45.719 Barbara is our informed curiosity active within the narrative. 723 00:53:45.780 --> 00:53:48.659 Barbara is not just our history teacher if we kids at school. 724 00:53:48.719 --> 00:54:00.360 She's our, she's our humanist, creative, sensical self, engaging in the narrative, in a, actually in a fabulous piece of backcombing. 725 00:54:00.659 --> 00:54:05.159 Since we have a little metaphor, the hair things are going on on this. 726 00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:07.019 Yeah, yeah, Babs's hair just gets even better. 727 00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:16.679 In an alternate universe, I suspect in, um, edge of destruction or wherever with the scissors, she just says, give me a number one all over, Susan. 728 00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.800 And the show, the show doesn't, doesn't make it tonight. 729 00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:23.820 This is, yeah, the show never makes it beyond episodes. 13 yeah. 730 00:54:24.780 --> 00:54:34.019 Ah, well, that sound means that it's time for us to end part one of season one, and we've actually just opened the wine. 731 00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:35.760 Chin chin, cheers. 732 00:54:35.820 --> 00:54:36.360 Cheers. 733 00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:37.260 Cheers. 734 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.320 We actually got it scraping the condensation off the walls. 735 00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:43.619 Well, Doctor Who is educational. 736 00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:48.900 So, um, but next week we're going to be... didn't work. 737 00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:54.239 You stole my gag and then... 738 00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:57.179 I think the whole thing could start again, actually. 739 00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:01.920 And of course, for those of you who don't know, Richard there was referring to Marco Polo. 740 00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:07.920 So if you haven't experienced it, listen to it or watch the recon, which, of course, we're not encouraging you to get online. 741 00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:10.440 Well, I think we linked to it in the show notes. 742 00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:11.579 Oh, yeah, yeah, it's on YouTube. 743 00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:14.099 I was just saying that for anyone from the BBC who were listening. 744 00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:28.019 Okay, so next week, next week, your time, but in about 5 minutes our time, we're going to be talking about the 2nd half of William Hartwell's 1st series, working our way through the Keys of Mariners, the Aztecs, the Sensorites. 745 00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:29.219 Right. 746 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:31.619 And the reign of terror. 747 00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:39.659 So, from Brendan, it's good night or good morning, whatever you are, whatever you're doing, do it safely and do it well. 748 00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:42.179 Yes, and it's good night from me. 749 00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:44.039 And it's good night for me too. 750 00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:54.659 You have been listening to flight your entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 751 00:55:54.719 --> 00:56:01.079 Episode one, horribly blonde, was recorded on Sunday, 1st of June, 2014, in city, Australia. 752 00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:04.860 The next episode will be released on Sunday, June 15. 753 00:56:05.219 --> 00:56:10.079 One day we will know all the mysteries of disguise, and then we will end our blatherings. 754 00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:20.099 So yes, that's my theory, the telepathic circuits are set to RP. 755 00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:26.099 Should really turn my television, your telephone off. 756 00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:27.119 That's right. 757 00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:29.699 What a professional podcast. 758 00:56:29.820 --> 00:56:31.739 Telephone off. 759 00:56:31.739 --> 00:56:33.659 Before recording. 760 00:56:33.659 --> 00:56:35.219 That can be our post-credits moment. 761 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:36.960 That will be. 762 00:56:37.019 --> 00:56:40.320 Okay, so anything else to say on unearthly child or shall we move on?