WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:03:31

1
00:00:45.299 --> 00:00:46.560
Hello, everyone.

2
00:00:46.619 --> 00:00:50.039
Welcome to a very special episode of Flight Through Entirety, the

3
00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.039
only Doctor Who podcast whose space expands to accommodate the

4
00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.280
time necessary to encompass its dimensions, and with the amount of

5
00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:57.899
cake we eat, That's a very good thing.

6
00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.039
I'm Brendan.

7
00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:03.000
I'm Nathan I'm a pull back Rolykin in exotic livery for this

8
00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:03.299
episode.

9
00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:08.459
So as you probably guess by the music and that introduction, today

10
00:01:08.459 --> 00:01:10.319
is all about the Cushing films.

11
00:01:10.379 --> 00:01:12.420
Nathan, would you like to explain to the listeners why we're doing

12
00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:13.319
the Cushing films now?

13
00:01:13.379 --> 00:01:16.859
You know, we could have done them at sort of separate times.

14
00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.560
The 1st Cushing film came out in the sort of interim between

15
00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:21.659
seasons 2 and three.

16
00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:24.420
You're really the history.

17
00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:26.879
I'm not...

18
00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:31.680
It was after, it was after the chase, and it was...

19
00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.459
The point is that the 1st one came out, there's a lot of things to

20
00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:37.980
say about these, isn't the, you know, why were they not as

21
00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:40.319
successful, perhaps, as they might have been.

22
00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:42.000
Everything was glowing on the board.

23
00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:44.159
It should have been the best thing.

24
00:01:44.219 --> 00:01:46.799
The 1st one came out right in the spirit of Dalek mania.

25
00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:52.019
The 2nd one came out, I think, 6 days after Britain won World War

26
00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:56.099
3 in the World Cup, which is pretty much how won England being

27
00:01:56.099 --> 00:01:56.939
Britain in those days.

28
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:01.799
And I've got a lot to say on the 2nd film as to why, because I

29
00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:04.980
guess you can probably get which one I'd like the more, but you

30
00:02:04.980 --> 00:02:07.859
know, why it really should have done pretty well and kind of

31
00:02:07.859 --> 00:02:08.400
didn't.

32
00:02:08.460 --> 00:02:12.060
Well, I mean, But yes, it was mid-seasonal thing.

33
00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:13.919
They both came out at times.

34
00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:18.180
The 1st one came out when Hartner was at his peak and doing, you

35
00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:20.759
know, really well when the show was being talked about, ITV were

36
00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:22.439
looking nervous still.

37
00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.439
What else do you want to say about that?

38
00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:28.860
Well, I just wanted to say that the 2nd one comes out, you know, at

39
00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:31.020
a time when the show is floundering.

40
00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.360
When the Raiders went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

41
00:02:33.419 --> 00:02:36.419
And that has to be laid at least partially at the feet of the

42
00:02:36.419 --> 00:02:39.599
production team chopping and changing and being so tumultuous that

43
00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:41.400
the show didn't know what the hell it was doing.

44
00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:43.919
No, it was doing a lot of other things it wants, wasn't it?

45
00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.680
We spent hours complaining about what I was doing.

46
00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:48.120
So the hours and hours.

47
00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:50.280
Thank you for showing that with us, do listen to this.

48
00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:55.080
So this is this is something of an addendum and an antidote to

49
00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.099
that rather chaotic period of the show.

50
00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.560
I want to say gruesome.

51
00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:02.699
Gruesome.

52
00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:12.060
Not tiresome, which really took the conventions of the show and

53
00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:12.960
did something new with them.

54
00:03:13.020 --> 00:03:13.919
Have a drink.

55
00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:17.699
We're having a...

56
00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:21.780
Dear listener, we do have our Flying Pots, Honda Valley, Blanc de

57
00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:26.400
Blanc, as we have to call it.

58
00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:27.180
Thank you, friends.

59
00:03:27.180 --> 00:03:32.039
With some very shiny Jill Curzon inspired wallpaper. effect on

60
00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:32.340
it.

61
00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:35.400
It does look like it does look like the cushion, the whose front

62
00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:36.419
room, doesn't it?

63
00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.219
The nice, the good room, the parlour.

64
00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:38.699
Yes.

65
00:03:38.699 --> 00:03:42.300
And we'll keep the tone suitable for the wallpaper.

66
00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:43.379
Yes.

67
00:03:43.379 --> 00:03:45.000
So Doctor Who and the Daleks.

68
00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:53.400
Doctor Who's in the title of that?

69
00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:54.479
So it's still a major thing.

70
00:03:54.539 --> 00:03:58.379
Well, yes, but when you look at the publicity things.

71
00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.819
I mean, it really is a film for people who want to see the Daleks

72
00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:03.180
again.

73
00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:08.939
And, you know, they change the premise of the show quite

74
00:04:08.939 --> 00:04:09.900
substantially.

75
00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.240
They change the regular characters quite substantially.

76
00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:15.780
But the things that look the same and sound the same, who have

77
00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:17.819
they got back if they've got David Graham back?

78
00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:21.779
They've got, you know, people from the TV show to do the Daleks.

79
00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:25.199
The Daleks are faithful to the way that they appear in the show.

80
00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:30.060
And so it is very definitely a film about Daleks, with sort of

81
00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.879
Doctor Who in it, sort of incidentally, despite the fact that he

82
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:33.540
gets billing.

83
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.519
And of course, he doesn't get billing in the title of the next

84
00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:35.819
one.

85
00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:36.899
It's um Darlic.

86
00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:37.620
No, he doesn't.

87
00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:39.959
But they're very, very different films with very different

88
00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:41.879
precepts and they do very different things.

89
00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:45.839
And if you want to look at, no, that's usually what I do, isn't

90
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:45.959
it?

91
00:04:46.019 --> 00:04:48.300
You want to look at what else is happening in cinema and

92
00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:51.720
television at the time, but it might as well be 20 year, 30 years

93
00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:53.459
apart in the way they're made.

94
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.920
They do feel just so different.

95
00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:57.360
They feel you watch them back to back.

96
00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:58.019
So different.

97
00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.980
And actually for me, the 2nd film is more like a 40s European

98
00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:02.279
film.

99
00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:10.379
And the 1st film is actually kind of that gorgeous, um, uh

100
00:05:10.379 --> 00:05:13.620
visionary, almost panto, can we say panto?

101
00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:18.180
But that sense of, we've talked before about the Edwardian

102
00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:22.800
sensibility in British fantasy writing of Edith Nesbit, of the

103
00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.939
kind of more of the child riders that came after Wells, but the

104
00:05:26.939 --> 00:05:31.139
sensibility in the aura of it, if you like, especially when you

105
00:05:31.139 --> 00:05:33.899
get to the petrified forest, the little cupboard, the quiet

106
00:05:33.899 --> 00:05:34.620
inventor.

107
00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.339
It feels very much like a children's award, an adventure story, and

108
00:05:38.339 --> 00:05:39.180
I really like it for that.

109
00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:40.199
Just the mood of it.

110
00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:43.500
And when I was 7 or 8, the 1st time I saw this film, it was on

111
00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:46.860
black and white TV on a Sunday afternoon, but seeing the TARDIS

112
00:05:46.860 --> 00:05:51.660
and it's still my favourite outer plasmic shelf, every, of

113
00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:54.540
anything, that prop, sitting in the forest with the transparent

114
00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:55.019
windows.

115
00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:59.160
It's the little things like that, the tick, the amygdala, and the

116
00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:03.180
canvas, bits of the fanboy brain to go into, just cortisol

117
00:06:03.180 --> 00:06:03.720
overload.

118
00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:04.920
This is too exciting.

119
00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:06.120
And it's gorgeous.

120
00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:08.939
Yeah, I was building a lot of Lego tard-eye in petrified.

121
00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:09.959
It does look.

122
00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:11.459
And then when you finally see it in colour.

123
00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:12.779
It's so lurid.

124
00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:15.540
It's kind of like those sequences in the Wizard of Oz, again, where

125
00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:18.720
you just go, which is, again, another one of that narromantic

126
00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:19.139
style.

127
00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:21.600
It's actually kind of Vincent Manelli.

128
00:06:21.660 --> 00:06:24.000
The 1st one is a bit like, is it American in Paris?

129
00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:26.579
No, it's Cushing in a patch of pine forest because they're doing

130
00:06:26.579 --> 00:06:27.300
it on a budget.

131
00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.439
But it's, but it actually has that same sort of sensorial, very

132
00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:35.579
emotional style of that neo Hollywood.

133
00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:36.779
I actually called it Neo.

134
00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:38.819
I think it's neo-realism.

135
00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:40.500
I think it's expressionism.

136
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:41.279
Can we use that one?

137
00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:42.060
Oh, please.

138
00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:42.660
Have a drink.

139
00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:47.160
That very expression of style of Hollywood cinema, which is

140
00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:52.019
actually Both of them, if you like, when we took at American

141
00:06:52.019 --> 00:06:52.860
cinema.

142
00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:55.500
And I think these, I think both of these films are really

143
00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:59.579
interesting for looking at in exactly in a way that what would the

144
00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:02.759
Yanks have done if they'd got hold of Doctor Who in the 60s?

145
00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:06.120
Well, I was just going to say, it's funny you should say that

146
00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.980
because these films were used to try and launch Doctor Who in

147
00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:15.779
America because the 1st film was adapted for, uh, it was adapted

148
00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:19.379
as comic and that was published in the UK and America.

149
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.500
It was also novelized and only published in America.

150
00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.879
And there was an attempt to spin off a international

151
00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:29.519
internationally distributed radio series.

152
00:07:29.579 --> 00:07:33.540
Totally separate from all of nations goes with the destructors and

153
00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:34.379
serials.

154
00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:34.920
Yeah, absolutely.

155
00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:41.459
And this was, it was, I believe, Aru focussing on all this.

156
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.519
Terry Nation was naturally involved, and the BBC were naturally

157
00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:48.180
involved, and I think that may have had a hand in why it didn't

158
00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:53.879
quite launch as well as the dwindling popularity of the Daleks, as

159
00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:55.620
we'll discuss later on with the 2nd film.

160
00:07:55.680 --> 00:08:00.120
So, I actually remember watching this for the 1st time, you

161
00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:01.860
mentioned your 1st experience of watching it.

162
00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.579
I was actually kind of horribly disappointed and I can't

163
00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:06.300
remember.

164
00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:13.980
I think I have only seen, I think, I think I had only seen the 2nd

165
00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:14.279
one.

166
00:08:14.339 --> 00:08:19.500
Right. before recently watching them for the podcast.

167
00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:20.699
I think it was the 2nd one.

168
00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.519
Yes, it definitely is because it's the one with all the coloured

169
00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:25.800
ward going down the plug hole as the time.

170
00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:27.060
That's right.

171
00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:29.939
Yeah, it actually it actually is Doctor Who does Psycho.

172
00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.639
Whereas the 1st one sort of lies.

173
00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:35.220
We didn't mention Jill Curzon's part yet, did we?

174
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.679
That's going to go quite well. would be unfair.

175
00:08:37.740 --> 00:08:40.559
We're not up to Dual Curtson yet.

176
00:08:40.620 --> 00:08:42.720
Sorry, dear listener, we are getting ahead of ourselves.

177
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:47.580
And I think I think the disappointment came straight away from the

178
00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:48.960
fact that the music was different.

179
00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:54.840
Because, you know, it wasn't the I'd only ever experienced the 70s

180
00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:56.039
style title sequence.

181
00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:58.259
It just shows you how powerful Delia Darbyshire.

182
00:08:58.259 --> 00:08:59.519
Wow.

183
00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:00.600
We still miss her.

184
00:09:00.659 --> 00:09:02.700
Yeah, even in especially this year.

185
00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:05.460
Just to jump forward of you.

186
00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:09.480
I'm kind of like it. quite good this year.

187
00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:12.299
But anyway, he's getting way ahead of us.

188
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:16.440
You know, like, I didn't really have enough sort of knowledge

189
00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.500
obviously, back then of sort of 60s Doctor Who to have any sort of

190
00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:21.000
particular opinion about the rest of it.

191
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:25.799
But I think I must have been Tom Baker or John Pert.

192
00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:27.720
We must have been the only doctors I ever saw.

193
00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:32.879
And so this, which was a lot about the Daleks and not very

194
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.779
interested in the doctor. didn't really grab me.

195
00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:39.779
And so it was only, it was only in the last few weeks that I've

196
00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:41.940
actually sat down and properly looked at them for the 1st time

197
00:09:42.059 --> 00:09:43.440
interesting.

198
00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:48.480
I remember the 1st time I saw the 1st one.

199
00:09:48.539 --> 00:09:53.399
I was staying with my uncle and my cousins, they lived about a 20

200
00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:56.519
minute walk from our house, so quite often I did their weekends or

201
00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:58.259
they big rounded hours weekends.

202
00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:04.259
Um, and my uncle who knew I loved Doctor, my cousin's wife Doctor

203
00:10:04.259 --> 00:10:06.179
Who, I just got it out from the video shop.

204
00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:07.259
He had no idea what it was.

205
00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:10.919
Oddly, the person who knew what it was was my mother, who's not a

206
00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:12.419
big science fiction fan at all.

207
00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:16.620
But I will never forget the way she described it.

208
00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.220
She said, it's Peter Cushing doing his family friendly movie.

209
00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:25.500
Oh, because she remembered Peter Cushing as um, that Helsing and

210
00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:29.940
Dracula and as Dr. Frankenstein and even as Grandmoth Tarken, you

211
00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:32.100
know, she remembered him always as playing villains.

212
00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.080
This is the film where he's not being villain.

213
00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:35.639
This is the film he can take his children to.

214
00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:40.200
However, he's still keeping the Caesar Romero moustache just so

215
00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:41.460
you don't feel too comfortable.

216
00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:43.860
There's just a little bit of, you still don't know what's going to

217
00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:44.700
come, kids, do you?

218
00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:45.899
In the same way.

219
00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:47.759
No, I don't remember that he does.

220
00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:49.440
Frankenstein doesn't.

221
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.139
So do you think that he's doing the moustache?

222
00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:53.279
Because I hate the moustache.

223
00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:55.320
He's really confronting.

224
00:10:55.379 --> 00:11:00.179
It's worse than Nicholas Courtney's worst thrown across the broom

225
00:11:00.179 --> 00:11:02.279
and landed slideways on his face, moustache.

226
00:11:02.340 --> 00:11:02.940
It's terrible.

227
00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.759
We have now, you know, in...

228
00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:08.279
She waxes.

229
00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:11.159
Oh, she looks...

230
00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:14.580
Yeah, yeah.

231
00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:18.419
Terrible tombstone teeth. mirroring up at you.

232
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.580
We're still on the 1st one.

233
00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.940
Yeah, no, I find the moustache really off putting, but he's

234
00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:26.820
clearly doing it to distance himself from scary hammer horror

235
00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:27.240
role.

236
00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:30.000
It's like when Tom Baker quit Doctor Who and cut off all his

237
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:30.179
hair.

238
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.539
Yeah, cut his head very short, so it wasn't curry anymore.

239
00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:35.220
So he had a completely different silhouette.

240
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:35.879
Yeah.

241
00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:38.820
So how do we find, how do we find it?

242
00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:39.899
was going to say Capaldi.

243
00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:41.159
How do we find pushing?

244
00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:42.779
How do we find pushing in the role?

245
00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:43.620
Oh, yeah.

246
00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:47.039
He approaches it, approaches it in the same way that Billy does

247
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:51.059
but you end up with a very different reading in the way that there

248
00:11:51.059 --> 00:11:54.659
are ticks and mannerisms and there, you know, vocal things.

249
00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.139
I like the way he uses his physicality in the film in a similar

250
00:11:58.139 --> 00:11:58.919
way that Billy does.

251
00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.240
Cushing, you know, the way he hobbles about, kind of actually kind

252
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.320
of, actually like, kind of like golem.

253
00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:10.500
But in a long velvet prop coat, right?

254
00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:14.519
The whole thing, you know, he takes up a lot of space and these

255
00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.460
actors have a way of making you look at them even though there's a

256
00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:18.899
big set with a wide screen.

257
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:21.299
No, no, you're going to look at me because I'm doing things you

258
00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:24.240
don't expect a body and a person to be doing at this moment.

259
00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:26.580
It is very cheeky like that, yeah.

260
00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.559
It's very different from TV, is it?

261
00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:31.080
Yeah, you're in medium, you're in medium close-up.

262
00:12:31.139 --> 00:12:32.340
You know, Billy.

263
00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:36.240
I think, again, Sandafar. you know, Billy does a lot with his

264
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:36.720
hands.

265
00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:40.740
Billy is performing for the small screen. his chin, that sort of

266
00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:41.039
thing, yeah.

267
00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:44.820
Whereas you've got you've got him in a giant giant screen.

268
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.360
And so he's stooping, you know, he still vocally does a lot of

269
00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:49.559
stuff that Hartnell does.

270
00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:52.320
He still does the sort of fascinating. sort of thing.

271
00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:56.039
And he seems to be playing it older the way that Billy does as

272
00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:56.220
well.

273
00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:01.320
He just seems a little bit more generic and he's certainly more

274
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.720
he's more cuddly and family friendly.

275
00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:08.039
Yeah, he's more mischievous, whereas Billy was more menacing.

276
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:11.220
And I don't think Billy ever lost that sense of being slightly

277
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:12.419
dangerous and slightly menacing.

278
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:13.259
No, he never did.

279
00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.200
Even after, he is humanised in the 2nd season.

280
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:19.139
But right up to when Ian and Barberley.

281
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.600
He can still turn on them and shout at them and what have you.

282
00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:25.740
You can't imagine Peter Cushing's doctor shouting at Ian for

283
00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:30.059
falling over and breaking something, sitting on a box of

284
00:13:30.059 --> 00:13:34.320
chocolates, when arguably, you know, it's all soft centres.

285
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:36.720
Roy Castles.

286
00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:41.220
Ian is far more deserving of a telling off than William Russell

287
00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:42.120
Ian ever was.

288
00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:47.039
So can we talk about the other regular cast, people in the Dalek.

289
00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:50.820
So Ian, Ian is new.

290
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.320
He's not known to Barbara.

291
00:13:52.379 --> 00:13:54.960
It's like the 1st date or their 2nd date.

292
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:56.879
They kind of know each other, but he's taking away.

293
00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:01.259
Now is getting more complicated than the 8 doctors in the novels

294
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:03.120
you know, because you've got TV, Ian.

295
00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:06.720
You've got Doctor Who in an exciting adventure, Dalexy, and where

296
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.419
he's a research scientist, but of course he is because he's

297
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:10.019
telling the story.

298
00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:14.039
And you've got Roy Castle's Ian, who's a prat falling buffoon.

299
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:18.779
It is, I mean, because it's trying to be family friendly and

300
00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:22.019
that's the most obvious. attempt to do it.

301
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.259
There's very little humour in the TV version of the Daleks, is

302
00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:25.440
there?

303
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:27.960
Yeah, there's like, you know, you've got people dying of radiation

304
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:29.340
poisoning and death rays.

305
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:30.059
Oh, don't know.

306
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:31.440
There is like costume. squids.

307
00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:35.519
But it is, it is Terry Nation and he's terribly gone.

308
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.039
And, you know, like he doesn't want us to have too much fun.

309
00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:41.820
And some of those costumes in San Francisco, by the way.

310
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:42.539
Please go on.

311
00:14:42.659 --> 00:14:44.519
On the same thing.

312
00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:45.120
Better.

313
00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:47.759
Still going.

314
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.539
So all of that sort of funny physical comedy in the in the 1st

315
00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:55.200
scene and he has another scene trying to get in the they're going

316
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.860
into the Dalek city for the 1st time and they have to split up and

317
00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:00.720
he tries to go through a door.

318
00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:04.259
Yeah, he can't go through the door because he keeps closing and

319
00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:05.039
all of that sort of thing.

320
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:09.659
And so, you know, that gives him something to do, given that he's

321
00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:12.419
you know, doesn't have an established character who we've been

322
00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:16.980
with for 4 episodes or, you know, who we've by this time been with

323
00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.820
for 2 years.

324
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.899
And he's sort of funny and he's sort of fairly amiable.

325
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.299
And the interesting thing is because of that.

326
00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:30.840
Um, he actually gets the most character development out of anyone

327
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.860
in the film because he starts off just as this accident prone

328
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:38.039
idiot and everyone underestimates him.

329
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:40.919
But in the end, he is the one who risks his life.

330
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.600
Quite knowingly.

331
00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:45.299
You know, he knows what he's doing when he says, oh, he dialects

332
00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:46.440
and throws himself on the floor.

333
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.179
And he gets up and makes a joke about it.

334
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.000
It's like, actually, he's completely saved the day, which is very

335
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.000
sort of modern new Doctor Who.

336
00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:55.200
If you look at Nicky.

337
00:15:55.259 --> 00:15:57.000
Micky starts off as a complete buffoon.

338
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:00.240
That's a really nice reading, actually, because, yeah, the Roy

339
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.740
Castleian is Nicky over there, just transposed to 2 seasons

340
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:07.559
Constantined into one little picture.

341
00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:08.039
You're right.

342
00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:11.759
Except they don't really, like they don't push it that far.

343
00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:12.600
Do you know what I mean?

344
00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:15.539
Like by then, I think, you know, the film's just a bunch of stuff

345
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:16.200
that happened.

346
00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:19.379
And so the arc isn't very clearly signposted.

347
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:20.220
I think you're probably right.

348
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:24.059
The fact that the person who's the idiot in the 1st scene saves it

349
00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:27.840
in the final scene, but I never really kind of felt that as a sort

350
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:28.980
of character progression.

351
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.620
There's no moments leading up to that or anything.

352
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:33.360
No, not really.

353
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:35.100
I mean, he...

354
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.820
Even though he has that development, he is pretty much still the

355
00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:40.200
buffoon until that happens.

356
00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:45.059
You know, it's, Which doesn't leave a lot for everyone else to do

357
00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.899
except he's suffering, scared females, plucky young girls or

358
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.580
Dottery.

359
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.679
Where does Cushing fit into this?

360
00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:56.879
Do you know why I feel they actually didn't do as well as they

361
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.700
might have been expected to, considering there are good moments in

362
00:16:59.700 --> 00:16:59.940
it?

363
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.879
I just think that it's the laziness of the production team.

364
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:07.319
Why would you use a script that's already been seen on TV and

365
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.220
familiar and redone because it really is never going to do as

366
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:11.460
well.

367
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.240
I think the answer to that might partly be, I do want to know what

368
00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.299
you think, but we've got 2 things we've touched on before that you

369
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:19.319
only ever saw at once.

370
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:22.920
So the collective memory is, what was it like?

371
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:25.559
And, you know, seeing it again at the cinema, this would have

372
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.619
become how people actually remembered the 1st Dalek story because

373
00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:33.240
this was much more, and this was much more viewable than that very

374
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:33.779
1st story.

375
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.359
And in fact, for decades afterwards.

376
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.200
Do you know what I mean?

377
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.319
They didn't repeat the Daleks on television over and over again.

378
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:42.539
But they did repeat, you know, it was a sort of bank holiday

379
00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:45.180
Monday thing, I gather, where you would see those films.

380
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:49.380
And they had a really strontium 90 half life for 20 or 30 years

381
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:52.500
before video and before, yeah, TVF scene.

382
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:54.420
And they did they did kind of well for that.

383
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.140
But the other thing is that it's a way films were made back then

384
00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:02.279
we might see it as kind of laziness or playing too safe, but then

385
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.400
it was you take the familiar and you put in your little twist on

386
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:05.579
it.

387
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.180
Stories were re-read, culture, if you like.

388
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.579
We have so much that's now available.

389
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:12.480
Press another button.

390
00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:14.460
There's a whole other branch of stories.

391
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.359
Stories are kind of simpler.

392
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:17.339
People grew up on repetition of stories.

393
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.220
This is, well, this is like grim fairy tales or like your

394
00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:22.140
favourite books or your favourite shows.

395
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.200
Repetition was seen as something that was actually a structured

396
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.039
useful thing.

397
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:30.599
But we do live in a world of like sequels to every blockbuster is

398
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:31.200
a sequel to something.

399
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:35.099
But also, notice, what's our 1st reaction as a culture and

400
00:18:35.099 --> 00:18:37.140
especially as geek culture when we hear that something is being

401
00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:37.799
remade?

402
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:38.579
We scoff.

403
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.279
We immediately go, why are they no original, I guess?

404
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.099
But of course, back then, when we did have, as you say, Richard

405
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:45.900
that whole thing of you only see it once and it's gone.

406
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.180
Do you know the 1st British sequel?

407
00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:53.640
Ever was only 3 mainstream sequel was only two.

408
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:58.140
I'm not talking about things like Gladys Jones in her mermaid

409
00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:00.720
pictures in Miranda, the mermaid, she'd done a sequel, that was

410
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:01.200
kind of exciting.

411
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.380
British fantasy.

412
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.720
It's almost a trope, isn't it?

413
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:08.220
But she's...

414
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:09.720
But cheers.

415
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:14.339
The very 1st successful sequel that was from Russia with Love.

416
00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:19.319
Britain didn't do sequel sequel cinema until 007.

417
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.619
And actually, I've got the I've got the Blu-ray set of the James

418
00:19:22.619 --> 00:19:26.460
Bonds and they do say on the extra features, you know, we didn't

419
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:27.839
expect to get a 2nd film.

420
00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:31.500
We got the options for the extra books, but we didn't we expected

421
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:32.640
the 1st film to be popular.

422
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:34.920
We didn't expect it to be so popular that we could go straight

423
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:35.700
back into production.

424
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:38.099
Cinema didn't do sequel.

425
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:42.000
And what I'm saying is laziness, that was at the time seen is, oh

426
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.740
the audience isn't going to ride with you on this one.

427
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.119
You're just rehashing an old.

428
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:45.779
Yeah.

429
00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:50.039
Actually, I'm all for abandoning the Doctor Who podcast at this

430
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.700
point. and doing a bond one. wouldn't that be awesome?

431
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.900
Can I?

432
00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.599
I'd actually like to say there are little points where you can

433
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.980
jump on and off because some of the lovely stuff about this film

434
00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:03.000
the set designs.

435
00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:04.920
And that it's very Dr. No.

436
00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:09.839
It's very in Adam, you've got these huge sets with tiny figures

437
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:10.200
inside.

438
00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:13.019
I actually think it's Ken Adam after he suffers a serious blow to

439
00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:13.500
the hand.

440
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:16.019
I remember picking that at the time.

441
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.779
I believe that's what we call you only live twice.

442
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.960
Well, I just, oh, no, come on.

443
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:23.819
That's a brilliant, superb set.

444
00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:26.519
Yeah, I just mean the film in general.

445
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:29.700
That's when that's you've even got the hood from Thunderbirds

446
00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:31.619
taking over as Blowfeld.

447
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:33.599
All his eyes don't light up.

448
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.140
She only lived twice his Thunderbirds in Bond.

449
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.400
I love that film.

450
00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:42.180
Really, I'm really seriously considering abandoning this.

451
00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:45.900
You know, it's clear to see through this discussion just how

452
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:47.640
ghosty these films are.

453
00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:48.480
Are they?

454
00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:52.380
The music and the opening credits for the Daleks could have been a

455
00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:52.980
Bond film.

456
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.460
You know, like Dr. No doesn't start with the with the sort of song

457
00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:57.599
that we're sort of used.

458
00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:00.240
No, Street Blind Mice, Jamaican Calypso.

459
00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:01.440
But yeah, yeah.

460
00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:04.380
And so it's that instrumental thing, which is exactly how this

461
00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:05.039
thing begins.

462
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:09.359
I mean, it could be the opening credits to Dr. No.

463
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:14.039
So it is, and that's something that this film loses that the TV

464
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:15.119
show has.

465
00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:20.819
And I think spoiler alert will probably come down on the on the

466
00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.940
side of this is inferior to the TV.

467
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:26.460
This is inferior to the transmitted version.

468
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.140
The transmitter version has terrible problems.

469
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:31.920
But the film is not as good.

470
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:36.180
And one of the reasons is that that all of...

471
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.299
Well, at this point, there's no Jacqueline.

472
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.019
No jacket.

473
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:42.000
There's no Carol Anne.

474
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:44.039
Oh, yeah.

475
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.539
They, they, all the things, you know, you hear these stories about

476
00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:53.519
people being scared of the Doctor Who theme, um, that it's the

477
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.339
Doctor Who is putting something on television that's strange and

478
00:21:56.339 --> 00:22:00.720
unprecedented. and for all of its rough edges and all of its sort

479
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:01.859
of various cracknesses.

480
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.859
It's trying to do something weird.

481
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.960
This is much safer than that, isn't it?

482
00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:10.920
The Daleks, I don't think, are scary in these films.

483
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.900
It's really sad that they're not.

484
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.880
And they're made to be poppy and fun.

485
00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:16.799
And guess that's the point of difference, isn't it?

486
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.000
is what Nathan's saying.

487
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:22.200
The original television series has a kind of naturalistic greet

488
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:24.299
and a playing out of time.

489
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:26.759
Again, you don't even know how long the story is going to take

490
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.880
just like this podcast folks, to get to the point.

491
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:35.940
So you are very much enmeshed in the narrative and you are really

492
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:38.579
as much as you can be in a small screen in your front room on a

493
00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:41.099
Saturday afternoon, taken along for the ride.

494
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.740
Cinemas are very different approach.

495
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.640
I think the failing again in this, especially more so for the 1st

496
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.660
film, is trying to just ape the 1st TV series rather than just

497
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:53.880
saying, let's just do something fresh and surprising.

498
00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:57.059
Yes, the Daleks aren't threatening because they're on the big

499
00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:00.000
screen and they've now become a piece of Warhol pop art.

500
00:23:00.059 --> 00:23:03.480
British pop, actually, just a Peter Blake piece of pop art.

501
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.759
And they're quite powerful for that.

502
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:08.339
But the thing is, they could have actually been made to be very

503
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:12.359
menacing and that could have been used to even heighten the fear.

504
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.579
There's nothing as scary as a clown face, is there?

505
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.019
All that colour and shininess.

506
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:21.059
And these, but these anodised anodyne, little solatropes that are

507
00:23:21.059 --> 00:23:22.259
spinning around there.

508
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.799
Yeah, we've kind of got to the point that I'm expecting Sylvester

509
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.799
McCoy to come in and blow a raspberry because they're just so

510
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.000
silly at this point.

511
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:32.339
You're really easy to push down a tube, aren't they?

512
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.799
Or is that Jill person's wrong in a 2nd?

513
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:40.079
Can we go back to talking about the regular class for a second?

514
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.579
Like, the new regular cars.

515
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:46.559
So they've made the decision to make Susan a little girl.

516
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:47.640
Yeah.

517
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:48.900
Doctor Who.

518
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:49.500
How do you feel about that?

519
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:54.000
Well, you know, like, I have to say that I actually really like

520
00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:00.240
Susie, in both films, and I was really surprised by that, it's

521
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.980
clearly an attempt to be child friendly.

522
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:02.759
Do you know what I mean?

523
00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:04.079
We're bringing children to the cinema.

524
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.880
It's an sort of identification character.

525
00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.339
She's not at all unearthly.

526
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.359
You know, she's not that weird man at performance that we get from

527
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:16.380
Carol Anne Ford, but she's really plucky and she's sort of really

528
00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:17.039
fun.

529
00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:19.259
She's British Empire youth.

530
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.799
She's very much British atwardian fantasy, Edith Nesbit heroin.

531
00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:24.420
I've got to say, I love her.

532
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.619
I think she's she is what she is, isn't she?

533
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.819
Were you thinking watching this what would season, is that season

534
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:36.059
10 have been like if we'd had Amelia rather than Amy Pond?

535
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.160
Oh, a new series.

536
00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:38.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

537
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:39.240
Yeah.

538
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.299
I mean, I mean, Where am I these?

539
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.519
But no, yeah, it's...

540
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:50.279
As soon as we did have Amelia in that series, I did kind of go

541
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:54.480
this reminds me of Susie and, you know, she's she's plucky and

542
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.339
she's got a bit of attitude without being precocious and

543
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:00.000
irritating.

544
00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:03.480
She really propels the story too. when she's the one that goes off

545
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:08.400
and picks up the, you know, the hootch that the spangly man in the

546
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:16.079
what the... walking around London, like dressed like that.

547
00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:19.259
No, well, that's why I'm dressed like that for this recording.

548
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.859
I shaved my chest and put some serious eye makeup on.

549
00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:24.119
I did wonder.

550
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.359
In fact, dear listener, we've had to close the blinds because

551
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:30.900
passing planes were reflecting line with fake chest and blinding

552
00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:32.220
local wildlife.

553
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:35.220
Do you remember that story, Barrying, whom we own because he's

554
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:37.619
Paris in...

555
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:38.759
The myth for makers.

556
00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:42.480
But as Alanon, do you remember him telling that story of the, um

557
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:45.180
Thal extras, the big muscly blokes hanging around in the

558
00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:49.920
background were mostly costermongers from Coffin Garden, big burly

559
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.099
gut blokes with, you know, with cockney accents who were

560
00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:55.559
apparently constantly blowing kisses to each other and camping it

561
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.319
up and trying to do Kenneth Williams voices while they were just

562
00:25:58.319 --> 00:25:59.819
trying to shoot or just off the...

563
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:01.380
Because they were wearing eye makeup.

564
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:05.640
And I heard that they didn't want their chest show.

565
00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:07.259
Yeah, they had to be paid extra.

566
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.680
But and weren't they sort of placated by the fact that it was sort

567
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.779
of gorgeous female makeup assistants doing it.

568
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:14.640
That yeah, that helped.

569
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.160
But I think they also got a couple of extra shillings to shake

570
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.700
their chest.

571
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.640
Outrageous. what they would have done for a quid.

572
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.200
I mean, the files look stupid in the TV transmitted.

573
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:28.380
However, but they don't know how stupid as they do in the film.

574
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:29.220
Oh, I know.

575
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:32.700
It's like, we are peaceful agrarian farmers who spend 2 hours

576
00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:34.680
there. every day.

577
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:36.539
What the heck is going on?

578
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:37.680
Right.

579
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.759
But yeah, um, we can blame George Powell again, okay?

580
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:43.140
Oh, yes, it's very George Palin.

581
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.640
Very easy, George.

582
00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:47.640
But the thing is, the e-lawyer, not the whole point of the time

583
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.799
machine is you're not meant to emulate the Eoy.

584
00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:53.640
It's no good being beautiful and fabulous if you're going to be

585
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.859
picked up one by one because you don't know how to fight.

586
00:26:55.980 --> 00:27:02.160
So the moment that we were talking about is Susan's hero moment.

587
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.880
Yeah, where she goes through, and in both, in both the TV version

588
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:12.180
and the, and the film, she goes to the TARDIS to retrieve the anti

589
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:19.079
radiation gloves, uh, drugs from the, from the, from the...

590
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:20.640
That's true for the price.

591
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:24.720
From the TARDIS and bring it back to the Dalek city.

592
00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:29.339
And in the TV version, Susan is sort of sort of tragic and

593
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:32.279
flailing our arms around and panicking and things.

594
00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:35.819
But Susie in the film is actually, she's scared.

595
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:41.460
She's got a much bigger set to contend with, you know, more

596
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:42.059
frightening for her.

597
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.400
He's actually able to run instead of running on the spot while

598
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:45.599
people slap all the twists.

599
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:51.299
And so look, she still sells it as a scary moment, but she's just

600
00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:53.279
a little bit more comfortable.

601
00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:54.119
I think she's amazing.

602
00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:56.460
She saves this film in every scene she's in.

603
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:58.559
I wouldn't have said that 20 years ago.

604
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.079
What's doubly amazing.

605
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:04.740
And a little bit troubling about how brave Susie is, is it seems

606
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:06.900
to happen at the expense of the character of Barbara.

607
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.819
Because doesn't it, though?

608
00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:10.019
Jenny Linden is Barbara.

609
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.940
There is, you know, there is nothing wrong with her performance.

610
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.240
And I like Jenny Linden in other films I've seen her in at the

611
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:15.420
time.

612
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.480
She's got a lovely comic style and she's, yeah, she's terrific.

613
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.180
But her Barbara is given very little...

614
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.319
A lot of backcoming.

615
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:23.220
Just give me, you know.

616
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.000
Yeah, yeah.

617
00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:24.539
Yeah, right?

618
00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:27.059
Even more backcoming than Jackie Hill, I guess.

619
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:29.700
Yeah, so she makes Jackie Hill look like Sinead O'Connor, really.

620
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:31.200
The hair is higher.

621
00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:32.279
So she is closer to God.

622
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:39.180
But the weird thing is, in the TV version, Barbara sort of gets

623
00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:42.900
Barbara does get a few sort of key moments over the course of the

624
00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:44.220
TV version of the Dalek.

625
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:46.980
There's the cliffhanger she gets, there's coming up with the way

626
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:48.059
to Blind.

627
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:49.980
Yes, the cliffhanger, which is so brilliant.

628
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:54.059
And in fact, that whole, she does, like, I think Jenny's Barbara

629
00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:55.740
does sort of wander through the corridors.

630
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:57.480
The very boring looking corridor.

631
00:28:57.539 --> 00:28:59.519
Yeah, yeah, they're not anywhere near as exciting.

632
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.759
And that cliffhanger is there's no sort of suspense to it.

633
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:06.539
Later on with the whole blinding the Dalek thing, you don't see

634
00:29:06.539 --> 00:29:07.740
Barbara come up with that idea.

635
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.099
She's just suddenly got the food, the mucky food in her hand.

636
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.859
Actually, she does she does sort of pick it up and look at it

637
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:14.400
thoughtfully.

638
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:16.740
So, wait, this is they're in the prison.

639
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:17.880
They're in the prison.

640
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.839
They're trying to escape.

641
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.180
She shoves some Plato on the dark eye.

642
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.799
Yeah, and but the thing that's really missing, I think, which

643
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.279
helped define Barbara's character in the TV version is when she's

644
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.619
actually agreeing with the doctor and saying, no, we should leave

645
00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:34.140
you know, we've got to save ourselves and Ian brings her around.

646
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.380
Jenny Linden's Barbara doesn't do any of that. completely silent

647
00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:40.259
throughout that whole thing in the film and it's kind of like the

648
00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:41.880
2 men sort out the problem.

649
00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:44.400
It's a great scene in the TV version too.

650
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:47.279
And I think we did talk about it when we covered it in the

651
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:47.640
podcast.

652
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:51.960
They have a proper marital dispute, you see, in an opera about the

653
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:53.759
ethics of this. a big blowup.

654
00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:54.480
Yeah, yeah.

655
00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:58.619
And so really everything and that's going to be an issue in both

656
00:29:58.619 --> 00:29:59.039
films.

657
00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:04.380
Everything cool that Barbara does in the in the TV version gets

658
00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:08.160
taken away and given to the men to do in the films and it's a huge

659
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:08.819
shame.

660
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.359
I can barely think of anything that totally sucks them, which is

661
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:14.700
why Toby, I think, gets to shine, really.

662
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.299
Because she's not sexualised yet, so she's allowed to actually be

663
00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:21.960
part of the story and yeah, can we get a little bit feministy

664
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:22.079
here?

665
00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:24.299
No, she doesn't need to be protected.

666
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:28.259
She doesn't need to be, you know, patronised and coddled.

667
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:29.819
Yeah, because no one wants to date her yet.

668
00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:30.539
Yeah, yeah.

669
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.539
Give a 5 years love and you'll be just the same as the rest of

670
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:33.720
it.

671
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:34.859
Oh, where's Jermaine Gregg?

672
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:36.420
Oh, we've got to wait another 5 years.

673
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:42.119
In general, the story streamlined at the expense of

674
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:46.740
characterisation and relationship, because on the TV, because I

675
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:49.079
suppose it was part of an ongoing narrative, you've got lots of

676
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.960
character development for the 4 regulars in the TV version, you

677
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.099
don't have that here, the characters are so changed and their

678
00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:59.579
rough edges are so smoothed out to be that family friendly thing.

679
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:00.299
Yeah.

680
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:06.059
Either by convenience or design, that means it's just, as you said

681
00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:10.740
earlier, it's the series of events that happen, rather than the

682
00:31:10.740 --> 00:31:13.680
soul of the TV version, it's just the plot in the building

683
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:14.220
blocks.

684
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:18.299
You do have to remember, though, that the TV version has huge

685
00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:22.140
amounts of padding, and that's something that I said at the time.

686
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.799
Like it is, it is at the expense of some of the horrendous

687
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:26.339
padding.

688
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.359
And in particular, there's that appalling indefensible thing that

689
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:35.039
got the Jenny Laird aboard when I did it before, which was we

690
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.880
finished the story in 4 episodes, the doctor pats his pockets and

691
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.700
goes, ooh, you know, I've left the fluid link or I must have

692
00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:45.359
dropped the time ring in the car led city or something, you know

693
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:46.259
we'd all better go back.

694
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:48.779
Road trip.

695
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:51.539
And here that's streamlined.

696
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:52.380
Do you know what I mean?

697
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.359
Daleks, take the fluid link from the doctor.

698
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:59.819
And everyone mysteriously forgets about its existence and has to

699
00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:00.359
go back.

700
00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:04.319
But in fact, that leads to a really sort of cool set piece in the

701
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.579
film where the files are attacking the Dalek city from the front

702
00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:15.180
and then Barbara and Ian and and the nurse and the, uh, heading

703
00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:22.259
around the tinnitus and anodyne. heading around the back going by

704
00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:23.220
the pipes.

705
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.559
But all of that is so much.

706
00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:28.980
So, like, I think we get a whole episode of them going across that

707
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:29.819
abyss.

708
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.559
Oh my god.

709
00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.940
And the abyss.

710
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.160
Is actually an abyss?

711
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:37.740
Oh, if they go across the abyss, the abyss looks fantastic.

712
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:43.259
Anatodidus has a giant panic attack or whatever he's called.

713
00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:47.940
And in the Terry Nation theme, because Terry Nation is just

714
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:51.599
horrible. he has a sort of huge panic.

715
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:58.140
He falls down the thing and then he cuts himself, he cuts the rope

716
00:32:58.140 --> 00:32:59.220
and plummets.

717
00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:02.220
Because he wasn't a man and because he experienced fear, he must

718
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:03.720
die.

719
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:06.420
But in this one, because he's the queerest character in the

720
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:06.960
narrative.

721
00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.339
So therefore he must die.

722
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.019
But in film, he's just mysteriously okay.

723
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:16.079
I know, I cut myself off, but then there was this convenient ledge

724
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.279
exactly shaped my hand.

725
00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:18.839
But you're kind of like, you know what, we don't care.

726
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:19.440
We like you.

727
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:21.299
And so he survives.

728
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:22.380
I mean, it is...

729
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:24.420
I mean, who else is going to do all the hair and makeup, yeah.

730
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.180
Intrinsic to foul culture, yeah.

731
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.759
Oh, dear.

732
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:31.259
So what do you reckon about the 1st one?

733
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:32.160
How are you feeling?

734
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:32.700
You know what?

735
00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:37.079
Even though it's got its problems, and it's nowhere as good as the

736
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:37.859
TV version.

737
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:38.880
I still enjoy it.

738
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:42.720
It's a nice bit of 60s pop cinema.

739
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:46.859
And I think what really helps is unlike some of the problems we

740
00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:49.559
had with season 3 of Doctor Who.

741
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:55.259
There's, Not as much in it that is offensive.

742
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:58.680
For the fact that Barbara is a weakened character, We do have the

743
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:03.000
fact that Susan is strengthened because of that.

744
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:06.539
And, you know, there is never any question, because quite often

745
00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:09.420
Susan on the TV show, there was the whole thing of, no, you can't

746
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:09.599
do that.

747
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:10.260
You're a young woman.

748
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:14.039
But there's never any question that Susie can't do things.

749
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:17.039
And in fact, she's the most intelligent character in the show.

750
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.320
She's the most responsive to the narrative within the narrative

751
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:19.739
isn't she?

752
00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:24.059
To the point that Cushing is really just there to be a mirror to

753
00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:24.900
the original series.

754
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.500
He's much.

755
00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:28.380
He has much less content and flavour than Billy has.

756
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:29.099
Yeah, absolutely.

757
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.320
Could it be Susan Who and the Daleks?

758
00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:32.039
Yeah, absolutely.

759
00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:32.460
Cool.

760
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:32.880
Yeah.

761
00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:37.559
And I think I think for that, for that alone, that's the great

762
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.340
success of the film, that Susie is such a strong character.

763
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.000
And really, she's written the way she should have been written on

764
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:45.420
television.

765
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.119
And look, I mean, it is more accessible.

766
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:49.260
It is more straightforward.

767
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:51.840
The Daleks goes on for like 3 hours, doesn't it?

768
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.420
I mean, it is, it's a bit of a slog.

769
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:55.440
And you know, it was...

770
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:57.360
We should really say it goes on for almost 2 months.

771
00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:00.239
Yeah, but look at how people would have watched it.

772
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:01.079
No, no, of course.

773
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.739
And would have forgotten the 1st 3rd by the time the latter 3rd

774
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:05.039
was on.

775
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:06.000
Yeah, yeah.

776
00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:06.900
No, I mean, that's fair enough.

777
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:10.440
No one was forced to sit through it for 3 hours in the 60s.

778
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:16.380
This does sand off, you know, the rough edges of the TV show.

779
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.380
But I think the rough edges of the TV show are what I really like

780
00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:19.920
about it.

781
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:20.820
Yeah, agree.

782
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:22.199
But seeing it as adults.

783
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:26.880
As a kid, this was very beautiful when we 1st got colour TV in 77

784
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:27.420
78.

785
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:29.760
I should add, in Australia, I think, much like Britain.

786
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:32.880
It was on pretty much at least twice a year.

787
00:35:32.940 --> 00:35:36.420
I remember it being able to see it around the same time.

788
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.519
Catwizzle was repeated in the summer holidays.

789
00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:40.199
So it was Doctor Who and the Dialects.

790
00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:41.460
Was it on the ABC?

791
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:45.000
I seem to, I can't recall that far back.

792
00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:47.340
We can check it out for you, but just sitting there with a big box

793
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:51.059
of Lego making lots of the crunchy noises that you get really did

794
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:51.960
help, right?

795
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:53.940
In the narrative while watching this.

796
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.159
I remember when I was a kid.

797
00:35:56.219 --> 00:36:02.880
It was once or twice a year, Channel 7's midweek movie in the

798
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:03.360
school holidays.

799
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:04.139
That's right.

800
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:04.800
Midday movie.

801
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:05.519
It was seven.

802
00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:05.760
Yep.

803
00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:10.559
Although the 1st time I saw the next film, it was a late night

804
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:12.000
movie on channel 10 and we taped it.

805
00:36:12.059 --> 00:36:14.579
So was this a segue onto the next film?

806
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.139
I think it is a segue?

807
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:16.980
Sound effect?

808
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:17.519
Music.

809
00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:28.199
I don't know what the sound effect is.

810
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:29.340
I don't know.

811
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.500
Gosh, I'm just thrown then.

812
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:32.519
Oh, sorry.

813
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:33.719
That was fantastic.

814
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:34.559
No, no.

815
00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:36.119
I'm chatting away.

816
00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:40.739
Well, can I, am I allowed to have my little moment of indulgence

817
00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:44.280
here as we break out the albino chocolate crackles?

818
00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:45.599
But in foul eye makeup.

819
00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:48.360
Now, what we have here. edible ball be.

820
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:49.260
Eagle eyed viewers.

821
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:50.460
Eagle eyed viewers.

822
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:56.099
Eagle eye viewers of the 2nd film may have noticed a theric beam

823
00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:56.940
locators.

824
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:03.900
Eagle eye views of the 2nd film may have noticed one or 2 subtle

825
00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:07.739
art signs of sugar puffs in the background of the 2nd film.

826
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:13.500
Now, I did my research and sugar puffs aren't really available

827
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:15.539
anymore as sugar puffs.

828
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:20.519
They are available as honey puffs in the United States and as

829
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.699
honey something else in Great Britain.

830
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.500
And for those of you who don't know, dear listener.

831
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:29.159
I was just in the United States and actually found... known as

832
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:31.800
Honeypuff to many of his dearest friends.

833
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.320
Well, I found a box, but I didn't have room to bring it back in my

834
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.679
luggage, and that's what I discovered, but here in Australia, make

835
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:38.820
makes honey wheat.

836
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:41.099
Because what sugar puffs were.

837
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:43.440
They were sugar encrusted puffed wheat.

838
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:45.179
Do we...

839
00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:46.199
Is it product placement?

840
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:48.119
Well, can we contextualise this?

841
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:51.780
So all throughout the underground and all throughout the film, the

842
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:54.659
2nd film, there are posters for sugar.

843
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.960
There are very, very, very 5 foot tall posters.

844
00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:59.579
Is it product placement?

845
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:00.599
Do you think they paid for it?

846
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:02.340
It the sponsorship.

847
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:03.480
Bankrolled the film.

848
00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:04.139
Really?

849
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:04.619
Yes.

850
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:05.039
Yeah.

851
00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:05.940
Wow.

852
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.820
So you can relive family and friends.

853
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.699
Your memories of waking up in the middle of the bloody blitz.

854
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:13.980
It's really going to sell it.

855
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.860
What do you want to say about yes?

856
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.500
Wait, wait, so what these are?

857
00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:24.360
These, dear listener, are Dalek sugar puff treats.

858
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:29.039
And so they are primary colours, as you can see, on our website.

859
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:34.019
And also I've gone out and got coloured edible ball bearings or

860
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:36.719
couchos, I believe they're pronounced.

861
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:40.679
So, gentlemen, would you like to try a darlic sugar puff treat?

862
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:43.139
You've also...

863
00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:49.860
Very simitudinally. match matched, matched theatheric thing

864
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:50.400
locators.

865
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:53.280
They blue in the 1st film, but a lovely, pleasing shade of mauve

866
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:55.320
in the 2nd film on the drone.

867
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.940
I'm going to grab a yellow one.

868
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:01.860
And they're very simple to make, dealers.

869
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.920
As you'll see, they're only a few ingredients.

870
00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:06.599
I probably should have agreed.

871
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:09.119
We all enjoying the folding at home right now, aren't we?

872
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.300
Yeah, it's all through everyone's Apple eye buds.

873
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.960
I bug. as their nose.

874
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:16.559
AirPods.

875
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:17.460
Cheers to everyone.

876
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:19.920
They are literally called the earpods, summarised at the side

877
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:20.099
man.

878
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:20.820
That what they're called.

879
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:21.539
They certainly are.

880
00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:29.760
Well, I really think this 2nd film is interesting as a film, not

881
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.639
just as a little bit of hooniness.

882
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:34.860
Well, baking inspiration.

883
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:36.059
Is it the blitz?

884
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.280
I mean, is it, it's several things at once.

885
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:39.780
That's why I reckon it's interesting.

886
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.239
If we can have my usual indulgence here, unlike the way it starts

887
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:49.619
it's got several styles of filmmaking or thrown in at once, just

888
00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:53.460
as what was happening with world cinema at the time, mainstream

889
00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:57.059
cinema was conflation of several different things all happening

890
00:39:57.059 --> 00:40:01.679
and you had the Hollywood musical, doing really well on top of

891
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:05.159
well, the colours and the lights on top of some of the styles that

892
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:06.000
were post-war.

893
00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:09.480
We start off with this thing that's almost Krit Kubrick.

894
00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:15.119
It almost presages... almost... almost...

895
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:19.800
In that neorealistic style of the bark, cantata being played over

896
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.059
the hood sitting in the car.

897
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:22.079
I love that.

898
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.139
And it's very much you're waiting for Alex to come along with the

899
00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:25.679
concert.

900
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:31.260
But this style is actually post-war European, actually starting

901
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:33.840
off with Italians and the Germans are doing it as well.

902
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:37.139
The Bark cantata transposes to a lot.

903
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.440
Then you get a beautiful Michelle Le Grand Free jazz lilting

904
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:40.860
score.

905
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:43.500
And it's really kind of a violent scene.

906
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:45.059
I actually thought it was quite surprised.

907
00:40:45.059 --> 00:40:48.300
Because, you know, poor old Wilf really gets it in the Nadgets

908
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:48.960
doesn't he?

909
00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:52.079
So it's in the, it's the opening, okay?

910
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:54.420
So, Will, Tom Campbell, um...

911
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:56.039
Tom Campbell...

912
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:57.900
PC Plod, Tom Campbell.

913
00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:58.800
Is it Sir Bernard?

914
00:40:58.860 --> 00:41:02.460
Is that, I believe he, uh, yes, he's, he's better than...

915
00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:03.059
He is in my heart.

916
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:03.780
Yeah, anyway.

917
00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:06.780
Actually, no, I won't get ahead of myself.

918
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:08.699
So he's a copper doing his beat in London.

919
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:09.539
That's right.

920
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:13.739
And it opens with a villain in the car and you get that, the bark

921
00:41:13.739 --> 00:41:15.360
played on the piano.

922
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:19.260
And it's partly there, I think, to serve as a queue to indicate

923
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:22.079
that we've gone back there in a very timey, whimey and Stephen

924
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.500
Moffati kind of way in the final scene because you actually get

925
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:28.500
the same scene, which is the same very distinctive musical queue.

926
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:34.559
And of course, a lot of TV screenings cut out that pre-title

927
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.039
sequence.

928
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:37.260
Gosh, that would be a bit trashy.

929
00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:40.320
Maybe not these days, but...

930
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:43.079
Well, I think I think just because it's slow.

931
00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:45.539
The same reason the MGM wanted to cut out somewhere over the

932
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:45.960
rainbow.

933
00:41:46.019 --> 00:41:47.159
Oh my god.

934
00:41:47.219 --> 00:41:47.820
I know.

935
00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:50.219
Sorry, things better.

936
00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:54.059
You get those little moments of using a classical score.

937
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:57.239
The prisoner does it beautifully as well. film did it.

938
00:41:57.300 --> 00:42:00.239
Slashinger did it. film was doing something, you get a piece of

939
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.320
well-known classical music or on this toatcase baroque over a

940
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:05.579
moment of ultraviolence.

941
00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:09.300
It's not quite ultravience, but it is...

942
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.280
That's pretty, that's pretty much ultraviolence.

943
00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:17.039
There's a significant episode of Danger Man, the paper chase it's

944
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:19.559
called with Joan Greenwood and Patrick Magoo and Pat.

945
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:24.239
The scene goes for about 3 or 4 minutes of John Drake being beaten

946
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.960
up to a very similar piece of bark on the obstacle.

947
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:29.820
It's just a thing that folk were doing.

948
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:35.760
Then we switch suddenly and violently to London Blitz.

949
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:40.619
It worked really well on TV, but I'm looking at this thinking, Come

950
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:43.679
on, you're 6 weeks out of winning the World Cup.

951
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:46.559
Britain is ruling the world right now and you're wanting to take

952
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.019
everybody back to.

953
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.260
And what's more, because it's such a bigger production value than

954
00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:53.039
the TV version.

955
00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:53.880
It looks so realistic.

956
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:54.659
Doesn't it?

957
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:55.619
And it looks beautiful.

958
00:42:55.619 --> 00:42:58.800
And the model work, when you see the girders land on the police

959
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:02.579
box, that's all a model work and the glass paintings are lovely.

960
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:03.840
Get to that in a second.

961
00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:07.739
But what you then, we jump then from neuralism, realism to, um

962
00:43:07.739 --> 00:43:09.420
what was called Truma film.

963
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.599
Or literally rubble film.

964
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:18.360
And from 46, 47, 48, 49, you had people like Vittorio Dosico

965
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:21.179
bicycle thieves, you might remember that amazing film.

966
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:22.019
Very sad.

967
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.920
The little moments of this that actually mirror images in there.

968
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:26.519
There really are.

969
00:43:26.579 --> 00:43:27.960
And I'll find them, I'll stick them up.

970
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:29.039
I promise this time I will.

971
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:35.400
The film was a style most eponymous with Wolfgang, a stalker, and

972
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:39.119
it, I'll spell his name on the, on the website.

973
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:40.500
I'll put it in the in the show now.

974
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.400
Or he's more significantly more well-known Roberto Rossellini's

975
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.920
Germany year zero, which is also 1947.

976
00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:50.460
And there are moments, okay, there aren't anodyne Daleks, but the

977
00:43:50.460 --> 00:43:54.119
kids in the rubble, the young boy, it's that's what it's harking

978
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:54.539
back to.

979
00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:00.000
So we've suddenly gone from London now, a bit mod, a bit happening

980
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:02.699
now, a little bit of ultraviolence, too, why are we back in the

981
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:03.059
blitz?

982
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:05.820
Even though we've gone into the future.

983
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:07.739
So it is, it is like going back in time.

984
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.139
Yeah, this future thing and we go back in time.

985
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.960
I just think it's an appalling mistake and just to preempt the end

986
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:16.500
of this, I reckon this is why the film bombed because the rest of

987
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:17.579
it's actually not that bad.

988
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:22.679
But the, um, I mean, how much was the blitz present in the TV

989
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:23.400
version?

990
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:25.920
Well, you did see...

991
00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.420
You really only saw rubble in the area where they 1st landed.

992
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:34.559
It's true, but for me, my memory of it, 1st time I saw Dialect

993
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.800
Invasion of Earth, subsequently, my significant image from the TV

994
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:43.500
episode, are the CUs and middle close-ups of Jackie Hill running

995
00:44:43.500 --> 00:44:46.139
through the wasteland, looking terrified.

996
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:50.820
That's the image, which is entirely Roberto Rossellini.

997
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.360
But the, I mean, the thing that's absent from the film, which is

998
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:59.760
so iconic, um, in the, in the TV shows, the Trafalgar Square stuff

999
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:03.840
and the Westminster Bridge stuff where, where the Daleks, you know

1000
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:04.739
that's completely absent.

1001
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:06.119
There's no tagging.

1002
00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:10.380
No, and the thing is, I think there's a, there's like a painting

1003
00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:11.159
of St.

1004
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:12.300
Paul's Dome in the background.

1005
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.639
But where are the vetoed elephants?

1006
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:16.380
where the vetoed everything.

1007
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:19.199
You know, in the TV version, that...

1008
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:24.360
In the TV version, that is where the whole dalek as fascism and

1009
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.000
Nazism really started because you've got the, you know, you've got

1010
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:29.460
the Daleks, they have invaded us and they are wandering up and

1011
00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:33.719
down in front of our landmarks doing the Nazi salute, you know, and

1012
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:34.679
that doesn't happen in the film.

1013
00:45:34.739 --> 00:45:38.400
No, and that's, and as we said again, at the time, there was a

1014
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:43.739
whole genre of stories about, you know, what if the Nazis had won

1015
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:49.260
you know, like even before that, like surprisingly early, that

1016
00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:50.760
exists as a thing.

1017
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:53.280
And so that's what they're playing often.

1018
00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:57.480
Clearly it's still present in the, in this film because you've got

1019
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:01.079
collaborators and you've got, you know, the evil Philip Maddock

1020
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.179
more.

1021
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:06.840
More of whom later. the best thing in the entire film.

1022
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:11.159
And so you do have all of those sort of things that are that do

1023
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:12.659
hark back to World War II.

1024
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:18.179
But what you don't get is the absolutely, you know, best moment of

1025
00:46:18.179 --> 00:46:20.820
Darlic invasion of Earth, which is that incredible location

1026
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:22.199
tuning.

1027
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:25.440
But they don't get that, they honestly have the patience for it

1028
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.579
because they immediately jump into a whole other pop style, which

1029
00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:36.239
I would say, is also very dated and is much more like the neo

1030
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:39.059
surrealism or the Louis Bunelle style.

1031
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:42.599
There are moments in this that are very much like Bernelles, the

1032
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:43.679
young and the damned.

1033
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:47.699
Now, Bunyol was the collaborator with Salvador Dali.

1034
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.539
He later went on to make his own films and was very much, they're

1035
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:54.840
a very, the whole thing of that gorgeous, Don't you love how

1036
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.679
they've taken a flying saucer and mashed it with a 1953 Ford

1037
00:46:58.679 --> 00:46:59.400
Thunderbird?

1038
00:46:59.460 --> 00:47:02.400
That's now the Daleks get round in a hot rod.

1039
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:05.219
But there's all the mashup of all these different significances

1040
00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:08.880
with pop art on the top is pure new surrealist cinema.

1041
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:11.699
And those 2 together made Uchianand loud, didn't they?

1042
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.360
Yes, yes.

1043
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:16.619
Which, of course, does have not quite examples of ultraviolence

1044
00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:21.000
but sort of microviolence, you know, you get very focussed images

1045
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.500
of very violent things happening.

1046
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.920
And in this film, the dialects actually become a bit scarier

1047
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:26.219
again.

1048
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:29.820
The one that comes out of the water, which, by the way, that 1st

1049
00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.400
episode is told in 10 minutes, and that includes about 3 minutes

1050
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.460
of original material and titles.

1051
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:36.719
Yeah, absolutely.

1052
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:39.599
But it comes out of the water at breakneck speed, and you are

1053
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:42.239
actually scared of it this time rather than the TV version, which

1054
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.199
is...

1055
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:46.860
And then it does a jolly little Ursula Andrews hip shake.

1056
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:47.820
Did you notice that?

1057
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:50.099
just at the end of it, just to sort of go and look at me.

1058
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:54.780
But also, when the saucer lands and they're escorting slaves and

1059
00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:55.800
that one makes a break for it.

1060
00:47:55.860 --> 00:47:58.559
And the Daleks hunt him down and no one will help him.

1061
00:47:58.619 --> 00:47:59.820
Is that David Graham?

1062
00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:02.219
It looks a lot like David.

1063
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.159
It is, it's actually professional stuntman.

1064
00:48:05.219 --> 00:48:07.320
And when he climbed up on the awning and fell through.

1065
00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:07.920
He broke his leg.

1066
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:08.579
Really?

1067
00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:08.880
He does.

1068
00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:10.559
And he just was watching it.

1069
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:11.219
It keeps on going.

1070
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.639
We were saying, it looks a really violent fall through 3 stories.

1071
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:16.800
Yeah, and the thing is, he then has to get up again.

1072
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:20.460
So he sort of half gets up and then he shot down because he kind

1073
00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:21.960
of went, well, I can't do it again.

1074
00:48:22.019 --> 00:48:23.340
So I'll just get on with it.

1075
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:27.239
And because of that, because of his frenzy action.

1076
00:48:27.300 --> 00:48:31.559
That makes the Dalek scary again, plus, with the exception of the

1077
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:34.320
Daleks in charge, this time around all the Daleks in uniform

1078
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.800
they're that beautiful silver and blue, which is one of my, that's

1079
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:38.940
one of my favourite Dalek designs.

1080
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:43.739
It's less pop art. you know, we are soldiers.

1081
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:44.400
We mean business.

1082
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:45.599
We are here in uniforms.

1083
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:50.400
And we get them on the streets at night, lit front lip and back

1084
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:51.659
lip, and they look amazing.

1085
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:53.820
Yeah, lots of good things in this.

1086
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:56.219
And it's maybe it's the whole tooting beck.

1087
00:48:56.219 --> 00:49:01.800
Yawning more of the scary furry dummy effect that having them in

1088
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:03.300
London does work.

1089
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:04.139
It really does.

1090
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:06.480
There's certainly a better directed film than the 1st one.

1091
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:07.199
Yeah, it is.

1092
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:09.539
There's a lot more going on for the viewer, but the 1st time felt

1093
00:49:09.539 --> 00:49:12.599
like a Edwardian fantasy story, just transposed.

1094
00:49:12.659 --> 00:49:16.860
This one is doing huge amounts of things all over everybody into

1095
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:17.099
everyone.

1096
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:21.360
It's Quatermatt and Triffords and Chuck Jones as well.

1097
00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:27.000
If you leap forward to the saucer scenes, you've got Bernard

1098
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.780
Cribbons doing Chuck Jones' Daffy Duck in the 24th and a half

1099
00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:31.500
centuries.

1100
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:33.000
With the boot machine.

1101
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.679
And the same helmet as mum.

1102
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:36.659
It really is.

1103
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:37.800
Can we have a little moment?

1104
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:40.320
Do we all jump forward to the to the source of scene?

1105
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:42.480
So wealth is in there.

1106
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:46.380
We haven't got the companions from the previous film back and I

1107
00:49:46.380 --> 00:49:47.039
don't know why.

1108
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:49.320
Why is Jenny Linden not in this?

1109
00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:50.519
I don't know.

1110
00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:51.840
She had a career?

1111
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.119
I assume it's just availability.

1112
00:49:54.179 --> 00:49:55.920
I mean, Roy Castle was in very high demand.

1113
00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:57.840
Yeah, they were lucky to get...

1114
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.460
No, he was a big...

1115
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.559
Well, vaudeville was still a big thing, which is why you're

1116
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:02.280
getting the slapstick.

1117
00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:04.320
And he's actually a very, very talented dancer.

1118
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:05.820
Really?

1119
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:06.179
Yeah.

1120
00:50:06.179 --> 00:50:06.599
Yes.

1121
00:50:06.659 --> 00:50:09.780
And so he was, he was too busy dancing and being strange.

1122
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:13.199
He was the Michael Crawford of his generation.

1123
00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:14.340
And you know what?

1124
00:50:14.340 --> 00:50:15.300
He really was.

1125
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:17.519
And one of the highest paid stars in Britain.

1126
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:19.619
I imagine if they couldn't get one of them, they probably just

1127
00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:22.619
went, you know, there's meant to be a unit, a relationship there.

1128
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.119
So, yeah, yeah.

1129
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:30.059
So we have Louise instead of Barbara, Louise who, and we have, and

1130
00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:33.239
we, and we have Bernard Cribbons as Tom Campbell.

1131
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:38.820
And, and like, we all love Bernard Cribbons because Wilf, Donna's

1132
00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:41.400
grandfather is so incredibly fantastic.

1133
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:44.579
And part of the fun of watching it now, which wouldn't have been

1134
00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:48.179
present when you 1st watched it, is seeing little wilf moments.

1135
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.980
Yes. in Tom Campbell.

1136
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.820
Especially in his face, just so... that they just make you love

1137
00:50:53.820 --> 00:50:54.360
him so much.

1138
00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:58.199
Do you notice how much the camera focusses on cribbers in this

1139
00:50:58.199 --> 00:50:58.739
cinema?

1140
00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.880
He's using this film.

1141
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:01.800
He's given a lot of close-ups.

1142
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:04.019
I think he's actually extraordinary to watch.

1143
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:05.280
He's really good.

1144
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:06.840
And so the scene you were talking about.

1145
00:51:06.900 --> 00:51:10.980
He's dressed in vinyl Bernard Cribbons in vinyl.

1146
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:11.940
Thank you, Ron.

1147
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:12.179
Rod.

1148
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.179
So he's dressed in vinyl.

1149
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:19.619
He's pretending to be a robo man, trying to goose step and falling

1150
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:19.860
out.

1151
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:21.480
Yeah, the roba mineral.

1152
00:51:21.539 --> 00:51:23.880
And the robamen are sort of crummy.

1153
00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:25.260
Who dresses them in vinyl?

1154
00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:27.000
How does that happen?

1155
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.440
They dress each other, therefore.

1156
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.360
Well, just at gunpoint to dress each other in vine.

1157
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:32.159
Haven't you noticed that before undergoing the process?

1158
00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:34.139
I have been to San Francisco before.

1159
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:39.480
That moment where there's the goose stepping, he's falling out of

1160
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:43.619
step, is actually intrinsically violent and intrinsically

1161
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:46.860
frightening because we know that there's an ontological threat.

1162
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:48.900
If he does fall out of step.

1163
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:52.139
This silly sequence, unlike all the Roy Castle stuff where it's

1164
00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:53.400
just prep balls in the 1st film.

1165
00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:56.400
If this goes wrong, he'll be noticed and shot.

1166
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:01.440
I have, except that there aren't really any Daleks there watching

1167
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:01.980
them.

1168
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.500
Oh, one of the other guys, you don't, you know, the point is

1169
00:52:04.500 --> 00:52:06.719
there's tension where there wouldn't have been in the 1st film.

1170
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:08.099
Yeah, it is tension and comedy.

1171
00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:11.579
Yeah, which is what and one heightens the other and that's the

1172
00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:12.239
classic thing to do.

1173
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.679
And he is wonderful in it.

1174
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.239
I mean, he is really terrific.

1175
00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:18.420
And Bernard Cribbons was sort of a star on the rise.

1176
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:22.260
This was a couple of years after he was the star of Carry on

1177
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:22.619
Jack.

1178
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.079
Carry on Columbus, as it was remade.

1179
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:29.940
With Julian Clary playing the part of Bernard Cribbins.

1180
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:31.980
There you go, dear listener.

1181
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.579
Rick Male was in that too. as the...

1182
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:36.360
Alexi Sale.

1183
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:38.639
John Pertley was in it and Bernard Cribbens as well.

1184
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.579
Because everyone was the reanimated corpse.

1185
00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:42.599
Yeah, I couldn't get that.

1186
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:44.039
Oh, no, it was 1993.

1187
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:44.699
Oh, okay.

1188
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:45.900
John was still with us.

1189
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:46.860
Apologies.

1190
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:50.639
Yeah, John and Jim Dale. moving moving back.

1191
00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:55.559
Bernard Cribbens was, he was in a very interesting stage in his

1192
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:59.519
career at that point because he was getting lead roles as a

1193
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:02.820
romantic lead, as he is in this film as he was in Carry on Jack.

1194
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.639
But he was also the comedy lead.

1195
00:53:05.699 --> 00:53:09.719
He was the prat falling guy who got the girl at the end of the

1196
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:09.900
film.

1197
00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:14.340
It was kind of, it was a coup for them to get Roy Castle because

1198
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:17.940
he was big and it was a coup for them to get Bernard Cribbons as

1199
00:53:17.940 --> 00:53:18.119
well.

1200
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:22.980
But I think Berner Cribbens is far more successful in the formula

1201
00:53:22.980 --> 00:53:23.699
of the story.

1202
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.360
His comedy in the story doesn't distract in a way.

1203
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:31.019
I felt that the Royal Castle comedy did, which, you know, it's not

1204
00:53:31.019 --> 00:53:35.159
the fault of Roy Castle, but just Bernard Cribbon seems a bit more

1205
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.139
naturalistic and fits in a bit.

1206
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:41.099
Yeah, and he has a bumbling, innocent, blokey charm, a child

1207
00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:43.920
blokey charm that isn't in the 1st picture.

1208
00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:47.940
But, I mean, for me, it is just impossible to divorce him from

1209
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:53.039
Will, and I just rewatched the end of time parts one and two.

1210
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:57.300
And like you just see moments of Wilf in his face.

1211
00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:58.860
He thinks it's just glorious.

1212
00:53:58.980 --> 00:54:02.099
It's really special, I think.

1213
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:05.760
And so anyone who hasn't seen it, who's familiar with fear.

1214
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:09.119
New series should go and watch it immediately because it is really

1215
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:09.900
funny for that.

1216
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:12.300
Can we talk about Louise who?

1217
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:13.739
And we've done.

1218
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:15.840
I think we've seen everything that needs to be sent.

1219
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:18.840
So she has she has moments of drama.

1220
00:54:18.900 --> 00:54:22.019
She's, you know, she's escaping the Roberman and she suddenly

1221
00:54:22.019 --> 00:54:25.320
finds a nice slidy pantry cupboard door with the same door handles

1222
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:28.199
that your grandma had on her cupboard and goes into what looks

1223
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:32.699
like the gimp closet with all the Roberman helmets on a normal

1224
00:54:32.699 --> 00:54:35.039
shelf far too high for a dialect to reach.

1225
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:38.039
And then all the whips nicely array on little hooks.

1226
00:54:38.099 --> 00:54:42.059
She has a moment of pause there and she thinks, what the hell am I

1227
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:42.719
doing in this film?

1228
00:54:43.019 --> 00:54:45.599
She stays there about half an hour.

1229
00:54:45.659 --> 00:54:47.579
Oh, yeah, you know, she's a game girl, I guess.

1230
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.340
She's wearing a lovely outfit.

1231
00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:55.199
Well, that really is a sort of theory about that. that she later

1232
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:59.099
when we found a read that she later ends up running a lady boy bar

1233
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:05.039
in Cooter Beach Bangkok, Sherlock Homosexuals and...

1234
00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:08.519
Well, I mean, she's kind of dressed dressed in that, Louise, who?

1235
00:55:09.300 --> 00:55:14.039
Spicy dressed as a future campy Benedict Cumberbatch, you know.

1236
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:16.860
Yeah, it's a sort of Tweedy... outfit.

1237
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:18.539
I love it. she looks fabulous.

1238
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:19.920
What I think it ends.

1239
00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:22.260
It's the producer said.

1240
00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:25.199
We obviously can't afford Diana Rigg.

1241
00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:27.780
Let's get someone who looks like it, put her in an outfit that

1242
00:55:27.780 --> 00:55:30.119
Diana Rig would wear and cash in on the Avengers thing.

1243
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:33.119
She's wearing the courageous little yellow go-go boots, yeah.

1244
00:55:33.179 --> 00:55:34.800
She's hugely pretty.

1245
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.539
I mean, she's she's gorgeous.

1246
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:38.219
But she's given literally nothing to do.

1247
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:42.960
I mean, if you want if you want someone to emulate Diana Rigg, you

1248
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:46.920
shouldn't get all of Barbara's cool moments from the TV version

1249
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.960
and then give them to other people.

1250
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:53.820
So Barbara gets to, you know, mow down.

1251
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:54.300
Don't worry.

1252
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:55.079
Yeah, that's right.

1253
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:56.639
That's now a bloke stuff.

1254
00:55:56.699 --> 00:55:57.840
Yeah, that's bloke stuff.

1255
00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:00.360
And she's even wearing Perkwee's Inverness cape English.

1256
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:01.380
She could have done it really well.

1257
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:04.260
I love that you mentioned that Bedford van thing because this is

1258
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:07.380
where it really just drains and it starts off.

1259
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.260
It looks so potent, you've got six, seven, 8 Daleks, and they get

1260
00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:11.579
into the Red Bedford Mac.

1261
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:14.519
Do we think we can actually get an inkling into Dalek religion in

1262
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:14.880
this moment?

1263
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:18.719
We realise that Daleks worship the god of Bedford.

1264
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:22.500
Because not only do they not fire on this little red dinky car

1265
00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:23.579
when it comes to them.

1266
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:25.019
They scarp her out of their shells.

1267
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:26.760
When things get knocked over, they're hollow.

1268
00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:28.679
Yeah, no, terrible.

1269
00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:30.960
Emergency temporal.

1270
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:34.019
Only, only ground, only ground crew, darling.

1271
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:35.039
Only drone darlic.

1272
00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:37.800
Sauce of Darlic Scone, I will boggle the hell out of the ball.

1273
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:38.460
Oh, we'll blow it.

1274
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:41.940
And then they come in and it's just and bang, and then it's gone.

1275
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:44.820
It melts down and it's just like you burnt your tall corgy cars

1276
00:56:44.820 --> 00:56:45.719
back in the 70s.

1277
00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:46.860
That's a great moment.

1278
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:48.300
Except, of course, it's a little bit.

1279
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:50.820
You think, where's Roberto Tovey in the scene?

1280
00:56:50.820 --> 00:56:53.639
And suddenly Wiley gets up and there she was.

1281
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.659
Robert I mean, Roberta Tovey gets things to do.

1282
00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:58.920
She gets things done.

1283
00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:02.579
Yeah, yeah, she leads a note for the doctor, which he completely

1284
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:06.000
misses despite the fact it's huge and written on a wall and

1285
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.300
foregrounded in the shot, like the director foreground.

1286
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:13.079
Suddenly enough, would be used by Derek Sherwin later in the

1287
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:13.440
invasion.

1288
00:57:13.500 --> 00:57:14.519
You can't lose a wall.

1289
00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:15.840
So write a message on the wall.

1290
00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:17.159
Oh, of course.

1291
00:57:17.219 --> 00:57:18.059
Fantastic.

1292
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:20.940
But I mean, the really interesting thing about character in this

1293
00:57:20.940 --> 00:57:21.179
film.

1294
00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:22.199
Unlike the 1st film.

1295
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:24.960
Characters here are changed.

1296
00:57:25.019 --> 00:57:27.059
Jenny, for instance is completely absent.

1297
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:28.500
The character of Jenny.

1298
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:29.280
Oh, God, I hate you.

1299
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.119
I know you hate Jenny.

1300
00:57:30.179 --> 00:57:34.679
Louise replaces Craddock in the plot because Craddock gets

1301
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:38.400
robotised here, whereas in the TV version, he travels with Ian.

1302
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:41.159
Instead, it's Louise travelling with the Ian character of Tom.

1303
00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:42.960
She doesn't actually do anything.

1304
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:45.659
No, well, and really neither does credit.

1305
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:49.500
Kind of just is an exposition machine for saying, well, this

1306
00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:50.880
happened to her, and that happened to her.

1307
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:51.960
Oh, there's my dead brother.

1308
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:53.159
Oh, I'll kill us both.

1309
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:55.320
Susan replaces Barbara.

1310
00:57:55.380 --> 00:57:59.579
She doesn't drive the truck, but Susan and Weiler. who replaces

1311
00:57:59.579 --> 00:58:02.039
who replaces Jenny travel along together.

1312
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:05.400
And there's a lovely little character moment where Wiler and Susan

1313
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:09.840
are wandering around a wood on their way to Bedfordshire or

1314
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:10.800
wherever they're heading.

1315
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:13.920
And Susan runs ahead and hides behind a tree and jumps out and

1316
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:14.639
boom.

1317
00:58:14.699 --> 00:58:17.820
Which is like the one kiddie childish thing.

1318
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.880
She does in 2 films and he just turns around, knock that off.

1319
00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:24.239
Don't do that in this post-apocalyptic wasteland.

1320
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:25.800
It serves no hot purpose.

1321
00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:26.519
It's for trying.

1322
00:58:26.579 --> 00:58:28.260
But it really works.

1323
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:33.840
Possibly because, you know, Susie is about 7 and David Campbell is

1324
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.659
still in his early 20s, the doctor travels with David instead.

1325
00:58:36.719 --> 00:58:38.280
And that leads to a...

1326
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:41.099
Not David Campbell, of course. isn't it?

1327
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:44.340
No, no, he's David, but he doesn't get a last name because Tom has

1328
00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:44.880
the last name.

1329
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.320
Of Campbell. right.

1330
00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:50.519
But it leads to another one of my favourite scenes in the film

1331
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:52.920
which is the doctor and David are walking along and looking at a

1332
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:53.159
map.

1333
00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:56.940
And the guy who played David, I've forgotten his name.

1334
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:57.659
Ray Brooks.

1335
00:58:57.719 --> 00:58:58.860
Ray Brooks.

1336
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:00.059
He's good.

1337
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.019
He was, he was, he had just started a film called The Knack, which

1338
00:59:04.019 --> 00:59:06.239
is why in the trailers, he's the boy with the knack.

1339
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:09.360
So he was kind of England's answer. how to get it.

1340
00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:10.559
It's a great little film too.

1341
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:14.159
He was kind of England's answer to James D. You know, he was this

1342
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:15.360
young heartthrob.

1343
00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:20.099
So they give him this rather incongruous action scene.

1344
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:22.860
He and Doctor Who are wandering along and checking the map, what

1345
00:59:22.860 --> 00:59:23.219
have you?

1346
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:26.940
And suddenly a roberman appears out of nowhere in this forest and

1347
00:59:26.940 --> 00:59:30.960
Ray Brooks throws Peter Cushing to the side, has a fight scene

1348
00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:33.119
deals with the guy and Peter Cushing just gets up and picks up the

1349
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:33.360
map.

1350
00:59:33.420 --> 00:59:35.760
Yes, we're headed to Bedfordshire as if nothing's happening.

1351
00:59:35.820 --> 00:59:37.980
And it's a great ultra cool moment.

1352
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:39.059
It is, really.

1353
00:59:39.179 --> 00:59:41.519
Do you know what I've just remembered is, doesn't the transmitted

1354
00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:43.260
version have crocodiles in the sewer?

1355
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:44.699
Yes.

1356
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:46.679
Where are the crocodiles in the sewer?

1357
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:48.119
Yes, why do we not get that?

1358
00:59:48.179 --> 00:59:50.699
We don't get the sleeper birds did that.

1359
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.659
They did.

1360
00:59:51.659 --> 00:59:52.739
Where's the slither?

1361
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:55.679
That's a very effective movie.

1362
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.599
That's one of the reasons that I...

1363
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:01.380
Also, there are characters referenced that we never get to see in

1364
01:00:01.380 --> 01:00:04.019
this form, the most significant one for me, and we haven't got to

1365
01:00:04.019 --> 01:00:04.920
Eileen Way yet.

1366
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:10.920
You know, when they 1st go to the underground rebel HQ and meet

1367
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:12.480
the bloke in the winter.

1368
01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:14.699
Dortmund, Dortmund, who looks like Kenneth Brannhard.

1369
01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:16.199
What's the 1st...

1370
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:18.420
Exactly.

1371
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:20.159
But what's the 1st thing they say when they open the door?

1372
01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:21.539
Did you notice the password?

1373
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.159
Mildred Coachwire?

1374
01:00:23.219 --> 01:00:24.719
No, I don't know what that is.

1375
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:25.619
It's the 1st thing I say.

1376
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:27.840
Mildred K When are we going to see Mildred Kobe?

1377
01:00:27.900 --> 01:00:28.380
She never appeared.

1378
01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:31.260
Well, I think it's either away.

1379
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:35.579
Playing a part of Mildred Coatwire and she's unspecified as a, and

1380
01:00:35.579 --> 01:00:39.179
they're all bloody terrified of her as they should be because she

1381
01:00:39.179 --> 01:00:42.300
has 2 or 3 just there's 2 or 3 moments on the centre of the screen

1382
01:00:42.300 --> 01:00:43.800
and she's the scariest thing.

1383
01:00:43.860 --> 01:00:44.699
You don't need a thing.

1384
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:46.559
She's far scarier than the TV counterpart.

1385
01:00:46.619 --> 01:00:48.539
Isn't she a great actor?

1386
01:00:48.599 --> 01:00:50.159
So, but it is...

1387
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:53.639
So, one of the things a woman who says humans for soup, yeah.

1388
01:00:53.699 --> 01:00:55.199
We sacrifice all of these...

1389
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:58.679
And Sheila Staple, of course, who's the younger woman.

1390
01:00:59.579 --> 01:01:01.500
It's terrifying.

1391
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:05.159
We sacrifice all of this fantastic location shooting in London

1392
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:06.840
which we get in the TV version.

1393
01:01:06.900 --> 01:01:11.219
But we do get this fantastic location stuff in the country, which

1394
01:01:11.219 --> 01:01:13.679
I think works really well in the 2nd half of the film.

1395
01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:21.239
And so Susie and Wyler end up, you know, at the house of the

1396
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:24.840
collaborators who make the frocks for the people who are working

1397
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:26.519
in the Bedford mine.

1398
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:27.719
And of course...

1399
01:01:27.780 --> 01:01:30.300
It's Eileen Way.

1400
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:34.440
And the house is beautiful and spectacular, like the whole thing

1401
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.980
looks great.

1402
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:41.280
And Eileen Way is every bit as menacing as she is in, uh, in, uh

1403
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:42.539
creature from the pit.

1404
01:01:42.539 --> 01:01:43.440
The creature from the pit.

1405
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:48.300
And she really, she really still, she's a much better actress than

1406
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:49.199
she's given credit for.

1407
01:01:49.260 --> 01:01:51.539
I could be wrong because I watched these films before I went to

1408
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:51.900
America.

1409
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:54.900
I could be wrong, but I believe in Eileen's way house that there

1410
01:01:54.900 --> 01:01:55.500
is no fire.

1411
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:00.000
And if I am wrong, it's still a good joke.

1412
01:02:00.059 --> 01:02:01.260
So, you know, don't write in.

1413
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:09.480
With this whole, you know, Louise is kind of just put there to

1414
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:12.239
look like Emma Peel in the trailer.

1415
01:02:12.420 --> 01:02:16.139
And then, so once you get in, you know, you won't realise that she

1416
01:02:16.139 --> 01:02:18.780
doesn't have much of a character because your cinema's already got

1417
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:19.260
your money.

1418
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.380
Barbara is sidelined as well.

1419
01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:26.099
But in both films, character...

1420
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:27.300
But in the 1st film.

1421
01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:28.380
Oh, sorry, yes, yes.

1422
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:32.280
So Barbara is sidelined as well in the 1st film.

1423
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:38.340
It seems like the attitude is you can only have one strong woman

1424
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:39.360
per film.

1425
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:42.179
And it's got to be Roberta Toby.

1426
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:45.000
Now, of course, I have no objection to refer to Toby being a

1427
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.739
strong character, but it just feels so... that you can only have

1428
01:02:49.739 --> 01:02:51.179
one strong woman per film.

1429
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:54.780
Well, I don't even know why Louise is there, I guess, because you

1430
01:02:54.780 --> 01:02:58.199
want, like, you've got the old guy and then you want a male and

1431
01:02:58.199 --> 01:02:58.980
female lead.

1432
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:01.079
But Louise doesn't do anything.

1433
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:06.059
Louise is there as a she's there as a motivation for Tom Campbell

1434
01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:11.639
to impress her and save her and, you know, we shouldn't still have

1435
01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:14.280
to talk about this in 2014, but that was my problem with the new

1436
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:15.059
Godzilla film.

1437
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:17.460
Spoiler alert for those of you who haven't seen it.

1438
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:20.159
The women in the film exist solely as motivations for the male

1439
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:20.639
characters.

1440
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:21.780
It's really poorly done.

1441
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:23.340
Otherwise, it was a very good film.

1442
01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:26.699
But they have no character other than I've said this about that

1443
01:03:26.699 --> 01:03:27.179
film as well.

1444
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:28.139
It really stands up.

1445
01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:29.340
You don't expect it anymore.

1446
01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:33.179
But I guess in 1963, there was just a lot of unrevolution going

1447
01:03:33.179 --> 01:03:33.300
on.

1448
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.840
Yeah, it's kind of weird because...

1449
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:38.579
You know, this is now 66.

1450
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:39.300
Yeah.

1451
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:43.860
It's very strange because visually, Barbara and Louise are strong

1452
01:03:43.860 --> 01:03:44.940
screen presences.

1453
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:46.559
You know, they've got a very strong silhouette.

1454
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:48.539
They're both wearing trousers.

1455
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:48.840
Yes.

1456
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:54.659
You know, they they are taking on what would be considered a

1457
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:57.000
modern feminine appearance.

1458
01:03:57.059 --> 01:04:01.079
They are challenging the notions of femininity in the way they

1459
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:05.820
dress and in the way they appear, but then they're given nothing

1460
01:04:05.820 --> 01:04:06.239
to do.

1461
01:04:06.300 --> 01:04:08.579
It's very, very strange.

1462
01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:12.599
And I mean, it's particularly strange for Doctor Who, where women

1463
01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:13.800
were getting strong roles.

1464
01:04:16.380 --> 01:04:22.739
The outstanding parts of this film are, the little bits that are

1465
01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:25.440
inside it, little bits that are tertiary level.

1466
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:29.639
The best characters are the fleeting ones, and maybe that's a nice

1467
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:32.460
way to take away from a film you've mentioned, wow, that little

1468
01:04:32.460 --> 01:04:35.880
moment with the Bedford, um, Bedfordshire map and that great

1469
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:39.659
little moment with David and the whole, and the doctor just

1470
01:04:39.659 --> 01:04:40.980
completely ignoring it.

1471
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:42.599
It's the characters that are almost ignored.

1472
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:43.559
You've got ironingway.

1473
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:45.300
Oh, you've got Philip Maddock.

1474
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:46.800
He's spectacular.

1475
01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:48.539
I mean that performance is so great.

1476
01:04:48.599 --> 01:04:52.320
He's the darkest thing in this film. a transcript, playing a kind

1477
01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:56.699
of John Lacare figure, but a Smiley's people character from, you

1478
01:04:56.699 --> 01:05:00.000
know, with just, again, we've had the Burgess Willby McLean

1479
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:01.860
scandals blown up.

1480
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:05.880
He's straight out of the Cambrigeshire backlot of nefarious

1481
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:08.400
baddies who you think you're on your side, but you can never trust

1482
01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:08.699
them.

1483
01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:13.260
I mean, it is a character that is in the TV version. but never

1484
01:05:13.260 --> 01:05:16.320
meets the doctor in the TV He gets killed quite quickly, actually.

1485
01:05:16.619 --> 01:05:17.820
Yes, yeah, by the sliver.

1486
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:19.380
By the slither.

1487
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:22.019
See, this is what you lose from not having the slither in your

1488
01:05:22.019 --> 01:05:22.199
film.

1489
01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:27.900
He's so sort of oleaginous and so he sort of underplays it and

1490
01:05:27.900 --> 01:05:32.219
there's a smile and you like at the very end.

1491
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:36.059
I have to say, you know, I'd seen the film decades ago.

1492
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:39.360
But I actually thought at the very end where he offers to help

1493
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:42.300
that he was actually really offering to help.

1494
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:46.019
And then when the doors open and the Daleks are all out there and

1495
01:05:46.019 --> 01:05:51.119
the doctor says, I mean, sorry, Doctor Who says, oh, you know

1496
01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:53.099
don't worry, I expected you to betray us.

1497
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:56.159
I was actually slightly disappointed because I actually thought he

1498
01:05:56.159 --> 01:05:59.340
was, you know, like he had enough self-interest to do the right

1499
01:05:59.340 --> 01:05:59.579
thing.

1500
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:01.260
He was just terrific.

1501
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:05.460
And, you know, they're cooking the beans and the doctor and David

1502
01:06:05.460 --> 01:06:07.380
says, oh, they smell nice.

1503
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:09.960
And then he just kicks the beans over for no reason.

1504
01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:11.340
He's terrific.

1505
01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:14.820
That scene with Doctor Who talking to.

1506
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.159
I think he's still called Ashton.

1507
01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:19.199
Philip made its character.

1508
01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:24.179
I think that's Peter Cushing's best scene in the 2 films because

1509
01:06:24.179 --> 01:06:26.400
his doctor finally shows a bit of guile.

1510
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.239
When he steps when he steps out and just completely unflappable.

1511
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:30.840
That's all right.

1512
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:31.920
I expected you to betray me.

1513
01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:33.420
Yeah, I can imagine Billy doing that.

1514
01:06:33.480 --> 01:06:37.320
But, you know, Billy would have turned around and how dare you?

1515
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:39.239
But Peter Cushion's just like, no, I'm just very quiet.

1516
01:06:39.300 --> 01:06:42.239
I'm very calm, but It's actually very sanguine, you know, and

1517
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:42.900
you're very cool.

1518
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:45.840
So he will see he knows he's going to be taken prisoner, whereas

1519
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:46.679
he's going to be shot.

1520
01:06:46.739 --> 01:06:50.400
We will see more Philip Maddock in series 6.

1521
01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:53.579
Yes. subsequently a bunch of times as well.

1522
01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:56.940
He's really a highlight, I think, in this film, he's fabulous.

1523
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:10.019
So, can we go on to talk about why we didn't get a 3rd film?

1524
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.780
There was some talk of there being a 3rd film.

1525
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:14.400
We did speak about this.

1526
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:16.019
We touched on this briefly, yeah.

1527
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:19.199
We've seen the trailer for it, which we will put up the link again

1528
01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:20.159
because it's brilliant.

1529
01:07:20.219 --> 01:07:21.719
Mr. Orton.

1530
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:22.139
Well done.

1531
01:07:22.199 --> 01:07:26.400
There was some talk about it being keys of mariners because it was

1532
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:30.599
3 nation scripts that they bought. deal with Terry Nation, yeah.

1533
01:07:30.659 --> 01:07:34.500
But I mean, the absolute lack of interest in the production, on

1534
01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:39.059
the production team's part, in the doctor and his companions

1535
01:07:39.059 --> 01:07:43.860
suggests that it would have had to be the chase, which I just

1536
01:07:43.860 --> 01:07:45.119
think would have been spectacular.

1537
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:48.420
See, I think you could make peace of mariners, put the Daleks in

1538
01:07:48.420 --> 01:07:50.940
instead of the board, because they already changed this script a

1539
01:07:50.940 --> 01:07:51.360
fair bit.

1540
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:54.599
I put the Daleks in instead of the board, had them chasing them

1541
01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:56.820
around Marinus, because you remember one of the complaints I had

1542
01:07:56.820 --> 01:07:58.800
about Keisha Marinus as the board just sitting there doing

1543
01:07:58.800 --> 01:07:58.980
nothing.

1544
01:07:59.099 --> 01:08:02.400
And you know, and you could have the Daleks chasing them in the

1545
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:02.639
Mac.

1546
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:03.719
That would have been really interesting.

1547
01:08:03.780 --> 01:08:07.320
And also maybe go get away from the Doctor Who character and the

1548
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:09.059
target, just have different people doing it.

1549
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:11.699
Might have been...

1550
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:15.420
Yeah, it's hard to see the Daleks take, take, take 1st step rather

1551
01:08:15.420 --> 01:08:16.199
than just...

1552
01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:18.779
I actually think they're just not really interesting enough.

1553
01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:19.800
Daleks.

1554
01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:20.640
Yeah, yeah.

1555
01:08:20.699 --> 01:08:23.159
Maybe in the new series, they've got a bit more interesting, but

1556
01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:25.079
essentially, you know, they're just not.

1557
01:08:25.140 --> 01:08:25.979
They can't move very well.

1558
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:27.720
They don't have CG and all this.

1559
01:08:27.779 --> 01:08:31.439
You do get a lot of distance shots of them just standing static

1560
01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:33.119
around an explosion. for too long.

1561
01:08:33.180 --> 01:08:36.300
In fact, I actually found some of the direction in the Dalek ship

1562
01:08:36.300 --> 01:08:38.640
in the in the 2nd film really off putting.

1563
01:08:38.699 --> 01:08:42.300
So they're using a handheld camera and it's really juddery and

1564
01:08:42.300 --> 01:08:45.659
like they're tracking daleks going up and down ramps and things

1565
01:08:45.659 --> 01:08:48.060
and the whole thing is sort of really off putting and actually

1566
01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:49.680
really not very much fun to watch.

1567
01:08:49.979 --> 01:08:56.159
And so I actually found the Daleks a bit tiresome.

1568
01:08:56.220 --> 01:08:59.399
They're very easily defeated.

1569
01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:00.479
Oh, and that's fantastic.

1570
01:09:00.539 --> 01:09:01.319
No, no.

1571
01:09:01.380 --> 01:09:02.039
That's awesome.

1572
01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:04.739
I love the fact that they speed down corridors and fall down the

1573
01:09:04.739 --> 01:09:07.380
hole, you know, all of that sort of thing is.

1574
01:09:07.380 --> 01:09:09.960
Yeah, their safety rail seems to be made out of toenails.

1575
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:11.819
It's terrific.

1576
01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:13.739
All of that stuff is really great.

1577
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:16.800
But a lot of the direction is sort of really weird.

1578
01:09:16.859 --> 01:09:18.779
And I just don't think they're very interesting.

1579
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:25.380
I think, you know, I think that, um, Whoever told Terry Nation, no

1580
01:09:25.380 --> 01:09:30.960
we're not going to do a TV show based on the Daleks, whoever did

1581
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:34.439
that deserves a medal or an OBE or something because it just would

1582
01:09:34.439 --> 01:09:35.039
have been terrible.

1583
01:09:35.100 --> 01:09:36.779
I mean, who's kind of interested?

1584
01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:41.460
a few other people agreed with you back in the day Anyway, we'll

1585
01:09:41.460 --> 01:09:42.960
get to the Daleks next episode.

1586
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:44.159
Yeah, will.

1587
01:09:44.220 --> 01:09:50.340
This film did have a bit of an afterlife. as well in that, I

1588
01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:53.399
alluded earlier, there was an attempt at a radio series and there

1589
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:57.060
was a pilot recorded Doctor Who Journey into Time.

1590
01:09:57.060 --> 01:09:58.380
Now very little is known about it.

1591
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:01.140
The recording's been lost, but the script has been published by

1592
01:10:01.140 --> 01:10:05.579
Richard Bignall in an issue of his magazine, Nothing at the end of

1593
01:10:05.579 --> 01:10:10.020
the lane, which focusses on unproduced Doctor Who, unmade stories

1594
01:10:10.020 --> 01:10:10.619
that sort of thing.

1595
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:15.539
And I believe there is a fan group trying to get a recording off

1596
01:10:15.539 --> 01:10:17.039
the ground who have recorded it.

1597
01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:18.960
I haven't been able to find it in time for this podcast.

1598
01:10:19.020 --> 01:10:21.239
If I find it during editing, I'll put up the link.

1599
01:10:21.300 --> 01:10:27.300
But it was going to feature Doctor Who, Susan and a character

1600
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:28.079
called Mike.

1601
01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:33.720
But there is no concrete, um, indication of who was playing who.

1602
01:10:34.199 --> 01:10:40.439
It was publicised as a 52 episode radio series that would start

1603
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:43.680
Peter Cushing, but there's no indication as to whether he actually

1604
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:44.340
recorded it.

1605
01:10:44.399 --> 01:10:47.520
He was asked in his later years, and he said he couldn't remember

1606
01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:49.439
it, but that doesn't mean he's been remembered.

1607
01:10:50.340 --> 01:10:53.699
We would have had to have a series of podcasts about that.

1608
01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:55.439
Yes, it's been nice.

1609
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:56.460
Can you imagine?

1610
01:10:56.819 --> 01:11:00.359
But you think of Cushing's performance overall in this?

1611
01:11:02.039 --> 01:11:04.020
I think it's...

1612
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:06.180
It's okay.

1613
01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:07.199
It's inoffensive.

1614
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:10.560
But then he has moments where you think, yeah, he's a cinema actor

1615
01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:11.880
and you've mentioned 2 of them.

1616
01:11:11.939 --> 01:11:12.359
Yeah.

1617
01:11:12.420 --> 01:11:15.420
And it's just like, you know, I wish you could have played it like

1618
01:11:15.420 --> 01:11:17.579
that the whole time, but I just think back to what my mother said

1619
01:11:17.579 --> 01:11:21.239
of this was him going, I don't have to be a mean person.

1620
01:11:21.300 --> 01:11:24.720
I can just play this as a character who is exactly as he appears.

1621
01:11:24.779 --> 01:11:28.199
He is a kind old, intelligent, slightly dotty man.

1622
01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:30.600
I don't need to play someone with hidden depths.

1623
01:11:30.659 --> 01:11:32.520
It could have been very refreshing.

1624
01:11:32.579 --> 01:11:33.420
I think.

1625
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:36.960
He has the worst wig, this out of keeper of Tracans.

1626
01:11:37.020 --> 01:11:38.460
Especially in this one, girl.

1627
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:41.220
And in this 2nd film, he has an auton face.

1628
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:42.060
It's all shiny.

1629
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:44.640
Yes, it is, which is weird too, in itself.

1630
01:11:44.640 --> 01:11:46.319
What was it of Day of the Daleks?

1631
01:11:46.380 --> 01:11:49.020
Yeah, exactly. controller.

1632
01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:49.500
Yes exactly.

1633
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:54.359
I think there's a bit of slap that's left over for the 1000s.

1634
01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:56.880
The thars gave him makeup, yes, the last film.

1635
01:11:57.060 --> 01:11:59.640
William Hartnell snuck into his dressing room and replaced his

1636
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:00.180
foundation.

1637
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:04.079
Harold died.

1638
01:12:07.140 --> 01:12:07.979
What I was going to say.

1639
01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:11.279
I just wonder how good this film or how different these films

1640
01:12:11.279 --> 01:12:14.760
would have been if you'd had Billy and say, you know, Jacqueline

1641
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:17.100
Hill or just like, you know, a few of the other members of the

1642
01:12:17.100 --> 01:12:19.920
original cast, but 2 have had Hartnell doing this.

1643
01:12:19.979 --> 01:12:21.539
I think he would have really shown.

1644
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:24.479
It would have been his chance to say, I am a cinema actor and I

1645
01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:25.199
can feel the screen.

1646
01:12:25.319 --> 01:12:26.939
And he's certainly done it before.

1647
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:27.899
Yes, he's been.

1648
01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:29.520
Yeah, he was a film actor.

1649
01:12:29.579 --> 01:12:32.460
I think it would have been really interesting to see.

1650
01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:37.800
I think what's nice, though, is there was a fan conception in the

1651
01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:42.479
80s that the reason it didn't have the TV cast was that the

1652
01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:43.800
producer said, oh, they're not big names.

1653
01:12:43.859 --> 01:12:46.859
I think they might have also not been available for contracting.

1654
01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:48.659
Well, exactly, exactly right busy.

1655
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:50.399
Verity has said in later years.

1656
01:12:50.460 --> 01:12:53.819
You know, there was some talk, but we all agreed that they

1657
01:12:53.819 --> 01:12:55.560
wouldn't have time to do it because we would have had to stop the

1658
01:12:55.560 --> 01:12:57.840
TV series and Hartnell didn't want to do that.

1659
01:12:57.899 --> 01:13:00.840
He wanted to keep going on television rather than appear in the

1660
01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:01.020
film.

1661
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:04.859
Yeah, if he would have said, you know, maybe along the lines.

1662
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:05.579
We've already done that.

1663
01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:06.180
Yes.

1664
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:08.640
I mean, you know, if he had the chance to do both, he probably

1665
01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:10.199
would have jumped at it because he loved the role.

1666
01:13:10.260 --> 01:13:16.079
But yeah, it is nice that they were considered to be... didn't

1667
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:16.260
know that.

1668
01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:17.460
Yeah. glad that they were.

1669
01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:21.600
Interestingly, we've got another segment on what does Rob think?

1670
01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:26.399
Shortly before we started watching everything in order.

1671
01:13:26.460 --> 01:13:31.560
Um, I said, oh, you'll probably like it more when we get up too

1672
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:32.340
the 4th doctor.

1673
01:13:32.460 --> 01:13:35.039
And he said, oh, John Pertway.

1674
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:39.060
And I said, no, no, no, no, no.

1675
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:40.739
John Pertley is the 3rd doctor.

1676
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:42.539
No, Patrick Trouton is the 3rd doctor.

1677
01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:46.500
And I just went, Okay, Patrick Carton's the 3rd doctor.

1678
01:13:46.560 --> 01:13:47.460
Who's the 2nd doctor for you?

1679
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:48.539
Peter Cushing.

1680
01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:52.739
Rob thought that Hartnell turned into Cushing.

1681
01:13:53.159 --> 01:13:56.100
But a couple of films. did a couple of films.

1682
01:13:56.220 --> 01:14:00.000
So Rob thought that, you know, you had the TV, they did a couple

1683
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:02.159
of films, and then it went back to TV afterwards.

1684
01:14:02.220 --> 01:14:04.859
And I had to explain to him that, no, that's not the case, I did.

1685
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:06.899
Now, Rod is a huge Godzilla fan.

1686
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:10.800
And the way he rationalised this because, you know, when you've

1687
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:13.140
thought something is true for a very long time, you need to remind

1688
01:14:13.140 --> 01:14:14.039
yourself that it's not.

1689
01:14:14.100 --> 01:14:16.140
The way you rationalised this was, there was a rather terrible

1690
01:14:16.140 --> 01:14:19.020
Godzilla film in 1998 made in America.

1691
01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:20.760
Just the one that...

1692
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:21.479
Matthew Broderick.

1693
01:14:21.539 --> 01:14:22.560
With Matthew Broderick.

1694
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:26.579
Sarah, Jessica Parker, play the eponymous.

1695
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:27.479
Yes, she did.

1696
01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:28.560
Yeah, she was Godzilla.

1697
01:14:28.619 --> 01:14:32.220
But the thing was, was they are married in what is known as real

1698
01:14:32.220 --> 01:14:32.880
life in Hollywood.

1699
01:14:32.939 --> 01:14:37.680
That film is widely regarded by Godzilla fans as pretty terrible

1700
01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:42.479
as in, as in, you know, worse than a lot of Doctor Who fans

1701
01:14:42.479 --> 01:14:47.579
consider the Paul McGann movie or even these movies and he was

1702
01:14:47.579 --> 01:14:49.859
just trying to say, but he is the doctor.

1703
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:53.159
And I said, he's the doctor in the same way that the American

1704
01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:55.859
Godzilla from 1998 is Godzilla.

1705
01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:57.779
And he said, oh, so he's Dino.

1706
01:14:57.840 --> 01:14:59.100
I'm like what?

1707
01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:01.619
And he said, well, we call that Godzilla Gino.

1708
01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:03.840
So he's Dino.

1709
01:15:03.899 --> 01:15:06.300
No, no, no.

1710
01:15:06.420 --> 01:15:07.500
I know this one.

1711
01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:09.720
Doctor in name only.

1712
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:13.979
Because that Godzilla, that terrible Godzilla from 1998 is

1713
01:15:13.979 --> 01:15:15.060
Godzilla in Nemo.

1714
01:15:15.060 --> 01:15:18.720
So he's Dino. and that's how I think of him now as well.

1715
01:15:18.779 --> 01:15:21.119
So I don't refer to the Cushing doctor anymore when I'm talking to

1716
01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:21.420
Rod.

1717
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:23.880
I say, oh yeah, it's the Dino movies and he knows exactly what I'm

1718
01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:24.180
talking about.

1719
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:25.680
I think you should call them Duino.

1720
01:15:25.739 --> 01:15:26.939
Doctor Who.

1721
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:29.100
Otherwise it becomes a rat-pack film.

1722
01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:30.119
Exactly.

1723
01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:35.399
What's your final word on the film's name?

1724
01:15:35.460 --> 01:15:39.180
Oh, you know, they passed an agreeable amount of time.

1725
01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:44.760
I did take 2 sittings to watch Dalek's Invasion Earth 2150 AD. I

1726
01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:45.539
will watch them again.

1727
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:46.439
Do you know what I mean?

1728
01:15:46.500 --> 01:15:48.659
But it is, I think I've said what I want to say.

1729
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:54.600
I think the thing that I like about the, um, the transmitted

1730
01:15:54.600 --> 01:15:58.380
versions with all their sort of slithers and, and, you know, sort

1731
01:15:58.380 --> 01:16:03.840
of ludicrous unmotivated trips across abysses and stuff, um, is

1732
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:09.899
that they are trying to do something new and different, that they

1733
01:16:09.899 --> 01:16:13.739
aren't particularly family friendly, that they're a little bit

1734
01:16:13.739 --> 01:16:16.319
rougher and a little bit stranger.

1735
01:16:16.380 --> 01:16:21.960
So, you know, these versions which look fantastic, you know, um

1736
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:26.340
and move at a sort of reasonable pace, still not as fun as the

1737
01:16:26.340 --> 01:16:30.659
sort of creaky old TV show that I love, I guess.

1738
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:35.279
Now, we've only got one recommendation for this month because, of

1739
01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:38.159
course, there's less about these films than there is about

1740
01:16:38.159 --> 01:16:43.500
anything else, but I'm actually recommending the Doctor Who fanual

1741
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:49.079
which was published earlier this year, uh, through Soft Centre

1742
01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:52.079
Limited, and uh, the uh, fanual.

1743
01:16:52.140 --> 01:16:53.399
I like the art lines.

1744
01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:55.979
Fannual Broadcasting Corporation.

1745
01:16:56.039 --> 01:17:01.439
And what this is, this is a world distributors style annual for

1746
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:03.420
the Doctor Who films.

1747
01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:10.380
And so it's got the sort of traditional stories and comic strips

1748
01:17:10.380 --> 01:17:13.619
that you will find in your other Doctor Who annuals.

1749
01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:18.060
It's been produced in hardback and softback, hard centre and soft

1750
01:17:18.060 --> 01:17:18.779
centre.

1751
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:21.180
And it is available to order online.

1752
01:17:21.239 --> 01:17:22.859
We'll put up the links on the website.

1753
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:27.359
But it's just, it looks like it was produced in 1966.

1754
01:17:27.539 --> 01:17:29.460
There's a variety of stories.

1755
01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:32.939
The artwork style varies from story to story.

1756
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:36.420
I actually suspect Peter Capaldi was responsible for some of the

1757
01:17:36.420 --> 01:17:37.739
fan art in it.

1758
01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:41.159
I think one of my favourite, a favourite pieces of art, and I'm

1759
01:17:41.159 --> 01:17:44.699
going to show this off, is Barbara here in Day of the Automatons.

1760
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:51.479
And unfortunately, we won't share the image online because we

1761
01:17:51.479 --> 01:17:54.840
don't have the artist's permission, but I do heartily recommend

1762
01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:55.500
you buy this book.

1763
01:17:55.560 --> 01:18:00.300
The other nice thing is it pretty much fits in between the 2 films

1764
01:18:00.359 --> 01:18:04.020
some stories set after the last film, but that means it also

1765
01:18:04.020 --> 01:18:09.060
covers where Barbara and Ian went and how Louise came in and what

1766
01:18:09.060 --> 01:18:09.600
have you.

1767
01:18:09.659 --> 01:18:13.380
And it's just the most glorious book.

1768
01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:16.260
It is a beautiful piece of...

1769
01:18:16.319 --> 01:18:22.020
The same people did the wonderful book of Doctor Who, 1965, which

1770
01:18:22.020 --> 01:18:26.159
we'd previously spoken about. and they are currently preparing the

1771
01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:28.500
unit manual in the same style.

1772
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.560
So, and some...

1773
01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:32.699
Corporal B in it?

1774
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:34.680
Corporal Bell is allowed to be in it.

1775
01:18:34.800 --> 01:18:35.640
Fantastic.

1776
01:18:35.699 --> 01:18:40.140
I believe their stipulation was it can include the brig, Captain

1777
01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:45.119
Yates, Sergeant Benton, Corporal Bell, Joe Grant, and Harry

1778
01:18:45.119 --> 01:18:47.640
Sullivan, other characters who can be included.

1779
01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:49.260
Not Liz Sloan.

1780
01:18:49.319 --> 01:18:50.880
Not Liz, it's...

1781
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:55.859
It is set, I believe they've planned to set it at some point, any

1782
01:18:55.859 --> 01:18:58.020
point between season 8 and season 10.

1783
01:18:58.020 --> 01:19:01.560
And yeah, they just decided to cut it off there.

1784
01:19:01.619 --> 01:19:04.020
But I suppose they could bring Liz in.

1785
01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:07.920
I may be wrong, but we'll include that link as well because I

1786
01:19:07.920 --> 01:19:09.779
think it should be available for pre-order soon.

1787
01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:14.819
But yeah, that's our recommendation, the Doctor Who fanual. include

1788
01:19:14.819 --> 01:19:15.420
the links for that.

1789
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.439
How exciting.

1790
01:19:16.500 --> 01:19:20.579
And there is a tiny segue, and if you're wondering further

1791
01:19:20.579 --> 01:19:23.819
references of this film in popular culture.

1792
01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:28.920
I believe you can't go wrong or can't go further than listening to

1793
01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:33.600
the 1st episode of Round the Horn, which subtly references the

1794
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:37.020
introduction of Ian in this scene with Doctor Who.

1795
01:19:37.079 --> 01:19:40.680
When Julian sits with Kenneth Horn and says, you might have seen

1796
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:43.979
me on the telly where I'm alone in a room with a beautiful girl

1797
01:19:43.979 --> 01:19:49.560
and we put out the lights and test chocolates. to see which of the

1798
01:19:49.560 --> 01:19:50.880
yard and which of the soft centres.

1799
01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:54.600
And you know, you know that really this film could have been shot

1800
01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:55.140
just like that.

1801
01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:55.800
Yes.

1802
01:19:55.859 --> 01:19:56.640
Absolutely.

1803
01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:59.100
That's probably the saddest thing about these films is there isn't

1804
01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:00.239
a Kenneth Williams in it.

1805
01:20:01.020 --> 01:20:05.159
Right, on that note, I think it's time to say we will be back next

1806
01:20:05.159 --> 01:20:09.060
week returning to regular programming with the 1st 3 stories of

1807
01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:10.739
season 4 appropriate.

1808
01:20:10.800 --> 01:20:11.819
Now...

1809
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:12.960
Season 3 is over.

1810
01:20:13.020 --> 01:20:13.680
Yes.

1811
01:20:15.539 --> 01:20:20.399
That means it's also time to attribute our stories that each of us

1812
01:20:20.399 --> 01:20:21.479
are going to spearhead.

1813
01:20:21.539 --> 01:20:23.100
So Nathan.

1814
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:26.159
You will be spearheading discussion on the Highlanders, the

1815
01:20:26.159 --> 01:20:27.960
moonbase, and the faceless ones.

1816
01:20:28.020 --> 01:20:32.279
Richard, you will be spearheading discussion on the 10th planet

1817
01:20:32.279 --> 01:20:35.460
the underwater menace, and evil of the Daleks.

1818
01:20:35.699 --> 01:20:41.819
And I will be spearheading probably a very short discussion on the

1819
01:20:41.819 --> 01:20:42.659
smugglers.

1820
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:47.699
In fact, it's over already. followed by discussions on Power of

1821
01:20:47.699 --> 01:20:49.439
the Daleks and the macraterra.

1822
01:20:49.500 --> 01:20:51.180
So it's good night for me, gentlemen.

1823
01:20:51.239 --> 01:20:52.500
Do you have anything further to say?

1824
01:20:52.619 --> 01:20:54.960
Night from both of them as well.

1825
01:20:55.020 --> 01:20:56.340
No, good night from me too.

1826
01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:57.239
Good night.

1827
01:21:04.739 --> 01:21:08.699
You've been listening to Flight Your Entirety with Brendan Jones

1828
01:21:08.699 --> 01:21:10.079
Nathan Botany, and Richard Stone.

1829
01:21:10.140 --> 01:21:14.100
Episode 10, Jill Curzon inspired wallpaper, was recorded on Sunday

1830
01:21:14.100 --> 01:21:14.939
October 5th.

1831
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.399
The next episode will be released on Sunday the 19th.

1832
01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:20.880
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight your

1833
01:21:20.880 --> 01:21:24.539
entirety on Facebook and iTunes or FTE podcast on Twitter.

1834
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:26.220
Where so thrilling, you must be there.

1835
01:21:33.180 --> 01:21:35.279
The TV version.

1836
01:21:35.340 --> 01:21:36.479
Barbara sort of gets.

1837
01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:41.579
We pause now, dear listener, to share a picture of Helen Shapiro.

1838
01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:45.359
Which we were sharing this with you.

1839
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:49.739
We feel that she's something of her inspiration.

1840
01:21:49.739 --> 01:21:52.199
Something of a Priscillaizing influence on this whole podcast

1841
01:21:52.199 --> 01:21:52.439
yeah.

1842
01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:54.600
Barbara does get a few sort of key.