WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:40:16

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Hello, everyone.

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Welcome to a very special episode of Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast whose space expands to accommodate the time necessary to encompass its dimensions, and with the amount of cake we eat, That's a very good thing.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm a pull back Rolykin in exotic livery for this episode.

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So as you probably guess by the music and that introduction, today is all about the Cushing films.

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Nathan, would you like to explain to the listeners why we're doing the Cushing films now?

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You know, we could have done them at sort of separate times.

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The 1st Cushing film came out in the sort of interim between seasons 2 and three.

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You're really the history.

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I'm not...

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It was after, it was after the chase, and it was...

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The point is that the 1st one came out, there's a lot of things to say about these, isn't the, you know, why were they not as successful, perhaps, as they might have been.

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Everything was glowing on the board.

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It should have been the best thing.

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The 1st one came out right in the spirit of Dalek mania.

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The 2nd one came out, I think, 6 days after Britain won World War 3 in the World Cup, which is pretty much how won England being Britain in those days.

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And I've got a lot to say on the 2nd film as to why, because I guess you can probably get which one I'd like the more, but you know, why it really should have done pretty well and kind of didn't.

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Well, I mean, But yes, it was mid-seasonal thing.

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They both came out at times.

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The 1st one came out when Hartner was at his peak and doing, you know, really well when the show was being talked about, ITV were looking nervous still.

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What else do you want to say about that?

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Well, I just wanted to say that the 2nd one comes out, you know, at a time when the show is floundering.

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When the Raiders went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And that has to be laid at least partially at the feet of the production team chopping and changing and being so tumultuous that the show didn't know what the hell it was doing.

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No, it was doing a lot of other things it wants, wasn't it?

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We spent hours complaining about what I was doing.

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So the hours and hours.

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Thank you for showing that with us, do listen to this.

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So this is this is something of an addendum and an antidote to that rather chaotic period of the show.

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I want to say gruesome.

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Gruesome.

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Not tiresome, which really took the conventions of the show and did something new with them.

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Have a drink.

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We're having a...

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Dear listener, we do have our Flying Pots, Honda Valley, Blanc de Blanc, as we have to call it.

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Thank you, friends.

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With some very shiny Jill Curzon inspired wallpaper. effect on it.

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It does look like it does look like the cushion, the whose front room, doesn't it?

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The nice, the good room, the parlour.

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Yes.

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And we'll keep the tone suitable for the wallpaper.

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Yes.

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So Doctor Who and the Daleks.

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Doctor Who's in the title of that?

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So it's still a major thing.

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Well, yes, but when you look at the publicity things.

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I mean, it really is a film for people who want to see the Daleks again.

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And, you know, they change the premise of the show quite substantially.

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They change the regular characters quite substantially.

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But the things that look the same and sound the same, who have they got back if they've got David Graham back?

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They've got, you know, people from the TV show to do the Daleks.

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The Daleks are faithful to the way that they appear in the show.

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And so it is very definitely a film about Daleks, with sort of Doctor Who in it, sort of incidentally, despite the fact that he gets billing.

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And of course, he doesn't get billing in the title of the next one.

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It's um Darlic.

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No, he doesn't.

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But they're very, very different films with very different precepts and they do very different things.

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And if you want to look at, no, that's usually what I do, isn't it?

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You want to look at what else is happening in cinema and television at the time, but it might as well be 20 year, 30 years apart in the way they're made.

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They do feel just so different.

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They feel you watch them back to back.

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So different.

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And actually for me, the 2nd film is more like a 40s European film.

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And the 1st film is actually kind of that gorgeous, um, uh, visionary, almost panto, can we say panto?

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But that sense of, we've talked before about the Edwardian sensibility in British fantasy writing of Edith Nesbit, of the kind of more of the child riders that came after Wells, but the sensibility in the aura of it, if you like, especially when you get to the petrified forest, the little cupboard, the quiet inventor.

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It feels very much like a children's award, an adventure story, and I really like it for that.

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Just the mood of it.

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And when I was 7 or 8, the 1st time I saw this film, it was on black and white TV on a Sunday afternoon, but seeing the TARDIS, and it's still my favourite outer plasmic shelf, every, of anything, that prop, sitting in the forest with the transparent windows.

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It's the little things like that, the tick, the amygdala, and the canvas, bits of the fanboy brain to go into, just cortisol overload.

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This is too exciting.

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And it's gorgeous.

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Yeah, I was building a lot of Lego tard-eye in petrified.

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It does look.

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And then when you finally see it in colour.

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It's so lurid.

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It's kind of like those sequences in the Wizard of Oz, again, where you just go, which is, again, another one of that narromantic style.

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It's actually kind of Vincent Manelli.

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The 1st one is a bit like, is it American in Paris?

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No, it's Cushing in a patch of pine forest because they're doing it on a budget.

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But it's, but it actually has that same sort of sensorial, very emotional style of that neo Hollywood.

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I actually called it Neo.

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I think it's neo-realism.

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I think it's expressionism.

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Can we use that one?

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Oh, please.

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Have a drink.

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That very expression of style of Hollywood cinema, which is actually Both of them, if you like, when we took at American cinema.

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And I think these, I think both of these films are really interesting for looking at in exactly in a way that what would the Yanks have done if they'd got hold of Doctor Who in the 60s?

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Well, I was just going to say, it's funny you should say that because these films were used to try and launch Doctor Who in America because the 1st film was adapted for, uh, it was adapted as comic and that was published in the UK and America.

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It was also novelized and only published in America.

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And there was an attempt to spin off a international internationally distributed radio series.

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Totally separate from all of nations goes with the destructors and serials.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And this was, it was, I believe, Aru focussing on all this.

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Terry Nation was naturally involved, and the BBC were naturally involved, and I think that may have had a hand in why it didn't quite launch as well as the dwindling popularity of the Daleks, as we'll discuss later on with the 2nd film.

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So, I actually remember watching this for the 1st time, you mentioned your 1st experience of watching it.

97
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I was actually kind of horribly disappointed and I can't remember.

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I think I have only seen, I think, I think I had only seen the 2nd one.

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Right. before recently watching them for the podcast.

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I think it was the 2nd one.

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Yes, it definitely is because it's the one with all the coloured ward going down the plug hole as the time.

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That's right.

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Yeah, it actually it actually is Doctor Who does Psycho.

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Whereas the 1st one sort of lies.

105
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We didn't mention Jill Curzon's part yet, did we?

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That's going to go quite well. would be unfair.

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We're not up to Dual Curtson yet.

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Sorry, dear listener, we are getting ahead of ourselves.

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And I think I think the disappointment came straight away from the fact that the music was different.

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Because, you know, it wasn't the I'd only ever experienced the 70s style title sequence.

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It just shows you how powerful Delia Darbyshire.

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Wow.

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We still miss her.

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Yeah, even in especially this year.

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Just to jump forward of you.

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I'm kind of like it. quite good this year.

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But anyway, he's getting way ahead of us.

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You know, like, I didn't really have enough sort of knowledge, obviously, back then of sort of 60s Doctor Who to have any sort of particular opinion about the rest of it.

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But I think I must have been Tom Baker or John Pert.

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We must have been the only doctors I ever saw.

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And so this, which was a lot about the Daleks and not very interested in the doctor. didn't really grab me.

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And so it was only, it was only in the last few weeks that I've actually sat down and properly looked at them for the 1st time. interesting.

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I remember the 1st time I saw the 1st one.

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I was staying with my uncle and my cousins, they lived about a 20 minute walk from our house, so quite often I did their weekends or they big rounded hours weekends.

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Um, and my uncle who knew I loved Doctor, my cousin's wife Doctor Who, I just got it out from the video shop.

126
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He had no idea what it was.

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Oddly, the person who knew what it was was my mother, who's not a big science fiction fan at all.

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But I will never forget the way she described it.

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She said, it's Peter Cushing doing his family friendly movie.

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Oh, because she remembered Peter Cushing as um, that Helsing and Dracula and as Dr. Frankenstein and even as Grandmoth Tarken, you know, she remembered him always as playing villains.

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This is the film where he's not being villain.

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This is the film he can take his children to.

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However, he's still keeping the Caesar Romero moustache just so you don't feel too comfortable.

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There's just a little bit of, you still don't know what's going to come, kids, do you?

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In the same way.

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No, I don't remember that he does.

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Frankenstein doesn't.

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So do you think that he's doing the moustache?

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Because I hate the moustache.

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He's really confronting.

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It's worse than Nicholas Courtney's worst thrown across the broom and landed slideways on his face, moustache.

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It's terrible.

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We have now, you know, in...

144
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She waxes.

145
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Oh, she looks...

146
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Yeah, yeah.

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Terrible tombstone teeth. mirroring up at you.

148
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We're still on the 1st one.

149
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Yeah, no, I find the moustache really off putting, but he's clearly doing it to distance himself from scary hammer horror role.

150
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It's like when Tom Baker quit Doctor Who and cut off all his hair.

151
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Yeah, cut his head very short, so it wasn't curry anymore.

152
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So he had a completely different silhouette.

153
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Yeah.

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So how do we find, how do we find it?

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was going to say Capaldi.

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How do we find pushing?

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How do we find pushing in the role?

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Oh, yeah.

159
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He approaches it, approaches it in the same way that Billy does, but you end up with a very different reading in the way that there are ticks and mannerisms and there, you know, vocal things.

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I like the way he uses his physicality in the film in a similar way that Billy does.

161
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Cushing, you know, the way he hobbles about, kind of actually kind of, actually like, kind of like golem.

162
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But in a long velvet prop coat, right?

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The whole thing, you know, he takes up a lot of space and these actors have a way of making you look at them even though there's a big set with a wide screen.

164
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No, no, you're going to look at me because I'm doing things you don't expect a body and a person to be doing at this moment.

165
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It is very cheeky like that, yeah.

166
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It's very different from TV, is it?

167
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Yeah, you're in medium, you're in medium close-up.

168
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You know, Billy.

169
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I think, again, Sandafar. you know, Billy does a lot with his hands.

170
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Billy is performing for the small screen. his chin, that sort of thing, yeah.

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Whereas you've got you've got him in a giant giant screen.

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And so he's stooping, you know, he still vocally does a lot of stuff that Hartnell does.

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He still does the sort of fascinating. sort of thing.

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And he seems to be playing it older the way that Billy does as well.

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He just seems a little bit more generic and he's certainly more, he's more cuddly and family friendly.

176
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Yeah, he's more mischievous, whereas Billy was more menacing.

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And I don't think Billy ever lost that sense of being slightly dangerous and slightly menacing.

178
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No, he never did.

179
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Even after, he is humanised in the 2nd season.

180
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But right up to when Ian and Barberley.

181
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He can still turn on them and shout at them and what have you.

182
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You can't imagine Peter Cushing's doctor shouting at Ian for falling over and breaking something, sitting on a box of chocolates, when arguably, you know, it's all soft centres.

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Roy Castles.

184
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Ian is far more deserving of a telling off than William Russell Ian ever was.

185
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So can we talk about the other regular cast, people in the Dalek.

186
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So Ian, Ian is new.

187
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He's not known to Barbara.

188
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It's like the 1st date or their 2nd date.

189
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They kind of know each other, but he's taking away.

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Now is getting more complicated than the 8 doctors in the novels, you know, because you've got TV, Ian.

191
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You've got Doctor Who in an exciting adventure, Dalexy, and where he's a research scientist, but of course he is because he's telling the story.

192
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And you've got Roy Castle's Ian, who's a prat falling buffoon.

193
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It is, I mean, because it's trying to be family friendly and that's the most obvious. attempt to do it.

194
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There's very little humour in the TV version of the Daleks, is there?

195
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Yeah, there's like, you know, you've got people dying of radiation poisoning and death rays.

196
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Oh, don't know.

197
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There is like costume. squids.

198
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But it is, it is Terry Nation and he's terribly gone.

199
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And, you know, like he doesn't want us to have too much fun.

200
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And some of those costumes in San Francisco, by the way.

201
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Please go on.

202
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On the same thing.

203
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Better.

204
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Still going.

205
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So all of that sort of funny physical comedy in the in the 1st scene and he has another scene trying to get in the they're going into the Dalek city for the 1st time and they have to split up and he tries to go through a door.

206
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Yeah, he can't go through the door because he keeps closing and all of that sort of thing.

207
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And so, you know, that gives him something to do, given that he's, you know, doesn't have an established character who we've been with for 4 episodes or, you know, who we've by this time been with for 2 years.

208
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And he's sort of funny and he's sort of fairly amiable.

209
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And the interesting thing is because of that.

210
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Um, he actually gets the most character development out of anyone in the film because he starts off just as this accident prone idiot and everyone underestimates him.

211
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But in the end, he is the one who risks his life.

212
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.600
Quite knowingly.

213
00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:46.440
You know, he knows what he's doing when he says, oh, he dialects and throws himself on the floor.

214
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.179
And he gets up and makes a joke about it.

215
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:54.000
It's like, actually, he's completely saved the day, which is very sort of modern new Doctor Who.

216
00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:55.200
If you look at Nicky.

217
00:15:55.259 --> 00:15:57.000
Micky starts off as a complete buffoon.

218
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:07.559
That's a really nice reading, actually, because, yeah, the Roy Castleian is Nicky over there, just transposed to 2 seasons, Constantined into one little picture.

219
00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:08.039
You're right.

220
00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:11.759
Except they don't really, like they don't push it that far.

221
00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:12.600
Do you know what I mean?

222
00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:16.200
Like by then, I think, you know, the film's just a bunch of stuff that happened.

223
00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:19.379
And so the arc isn't very clearly signposted.

224
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:20.220
I think you're probably right.

225
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:28.980
The fact that the person who's the idiot in the 1st scene saves it in the final scene, but I never really kind of felt that as a sort of character progression.

226
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.620
There's no moments leading up to that or anything.

227
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:33.360
No, not really.

228
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:35.100
I mean, he...

229
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:40.200
Even though he has that development, he is pretty much still the buffoon until that happens.

230
00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:50.580
You know, it's, Which doesn't leave a lot for everyone else to do except he's suffering, scared females, plucky young girls or Dottery.

231
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.679
Where does Cushing fit into this?

232
00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:59.940
Do you know why I feel they actually didn't do as well as they might have been expected to, considering there are good moments in it?

233
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.879
I just think that it's the laziness of the production team.

234
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:11.460
Why would you use a script that's already been seen on TV and familiar and redone because it really is never going to do as well.

235
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:19.319
I think the answer to that might partly be, I do want to know what you think, but we've got 2 things we've touched on before that you only ever saw at once.

236
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:22.920
So the collective memory is, what was it like?

237
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:33.779
And, you know, seeing it again at the cinema, this would have become how people actually remembered the 1st Dalek story because this was much more, and this was much more viewable than that very 1st story.

238
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.359
And in fact, for decades afterwards.

239
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.200
Do you know what I mean?

240
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.319
They didn't repeat the Daleks on television over and over again.

241
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:45.180
But they did repeat, you know, it was a sort of bank holiday Monday thing, I gather, where you would see those films.

242
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:52.500
And they had a really strontium 90 half life for 20 or 30 years before video and before, yeah, TVF scene.

243
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:54.420
And they did they did kind of well for that.

244
00:17:54.480 --> 00:18:05.579
But the other thing is that it's a way films were made back then, we might see it as kind of laziness or playing too safe, but then it was you take the familiar and you put in your little twist on it.

245
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.180
Stories were re-read, culture, if you like.

246
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.579
We have so much that's now available.

247
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:12.480
Press another button.

248
00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:14.460
There's a whole other branch of stories.

249
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.359
Stories are kind of simpler.

250
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:17.339
People grew up on repetition of stories.

251
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:22.140
This is, well, this is like grim fairy tales or like your favourite books or your favourite shows.

252
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.039
Repetition was seen as something that was actually a structured useful thing.

253
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:31.200
But we do live in a world of like sequels to every blockbuster is a sequel to something.

254
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:37.799
But also, notice, what's our 1st reaction as a culture and especially as geek culture when we hear that something is being remade?

255
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:38.579
We scoff.

256
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.279
We immediately go, why are they no original, I guess?

257
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.900
But of course, back then, when we did have, as you say, Richard, that whole thing of you only see it once and it's gone.

258
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.180
Do you know the 1st British sequel?

259
00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:53.640
Ever was only 3 mainstream sequel was only two.

260
00:18:53.759 --> 00:19:01.200
I'm not talking about things like Gladys Jones in her mermaid pictures in Miranda, the mermaid, she'd done a sequel, that was kind of exciting.

261
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.380
British fantasy.

262
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.720
It's almost a trope, isn't it?

263
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:08.220
But she's...

264
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:09.720
But cheers.

265
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:14.339
The very 1st successful sequel that was from Russia with Love.

266
00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:19.319
Britain didn't do sequel sequel cinema until 007.

267
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:27.839
And actually, I've got the I've got the Blu-ray set of the James Bonds and they do say on the extra features, you know, we didn't expect to get a 2nd film.

268
00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:32.640
We got the options for the extra books, but we didn't we expected the 1st film to be popular.

269
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:35.700
We didn't expect it to be so popular that we could go straight back into production.

270
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:38.099
Cinema didn't do sequel.

271
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:43.740
And what I'm saying is laziness, that was at the time seen is, oh, the audience isn't going to ride with you on this one.

272
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.119
You're just rehashing an old.

273
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:45.779
Yeah.

274
00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:53.700
Actually, I'm all for abandoning the Doctor Who podcast at this point. and doing a bond one. wouldn't that be awesome?

275
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.900
Can I?

276
00:19:54.900 --> 00:20:03.000
I'd actually like to say there are little points where you can jump on and off because some of the lovely stuff about this film, the set designs.

277
00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:04.920
And that it's very Dr. No.

278
00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:10.200
It's very in Adam, you've got these huge sets with tiny figures inside.

279
00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:13.500
I actually think it's Ken Adam after he suffers a serious blow to the hand.

280
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:16.019
I remember picking that at the time.

281
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.779
I believe that's what we call you only live twice.

282
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.960
Well, I just, oh, no, come on.

283
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:23.819
That's a brilliant, superb set.

284
00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:26.519
Yeah, I just mean the film in general.

285
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:31.619
That's when that's you've even got the hood from Thunderbirds taking over as Blowfeld.

286
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:33.599
All his eyes don't light up.

287
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.140
She only lived twice his Thunderbirds in Bond.

288
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.400
I love that film.

289
00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:42.180
Really, I'm really seriously considering abandoning this.

290
00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:47.640
You know, it's clear to see through this discussion just how ghosty these films are.

291
00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:48.480
Are they?

292
00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:52.980
The music and the opening credits for the Daleks could have been a Bond film.

293
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:57.599
You know, like Dr. No doesn't start with the with the sort of song that we're sort of used.

294
00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:00.240
No, Street Blind Mice, Jamaican Calypso.

295
00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:01.440
But yeah, yeah.

296
00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:05.039
And so it's that instrumental thing, which is exactly how this thing begins.

297
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:09.359
I mean, it could be the opening credits to Dr. No.

298
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:15.119
So it is, and that's something that this film loses that the TV show has.

299
00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:23.940
And I think spoiler alert will probably come down on the on the side of this is inferior to the TV.

300
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:26.460
This is inferior to the transmitted version.

301
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.140
The transmitter version has terrible problems.

302
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:31.920
But the film is not as good.

303
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:36.180
And one of the reasons is that that all of...

304
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.299
Well, at this point, there's no Jacqueline.

305
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.019
No jacket.

306
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:42.000
There's no Carol Anne.

307
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:44.039
Oh, yeah.

308
00:21:44.039 --> 00:22:01.859
They, they, all the things, you know, you hear these stories about people being scared of the Doctor Who theme, um, that it's the Doctor Who is putting something on television that's strange and unprecedented. and for all of its rough edges and all of its sort of various cracknesses.

309
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.859
It's trying to do something weird.

310
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.960
This is much safer than that, isn't it?

311
00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:10.920
The Daleks, I don't think, are scary in these films.

312
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.900
It's really sad that they're not.

313
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.880
And they're made to be poppy and fun.

314
00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:16.799
And guess that's the point of difference, isn't it?

315
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.000
is what Nathan's saying.

316
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:24.299
The original television series has a kind of naturalistic greet and a playing out of time.

317
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:29.880
Again, you don't even know how long the story is going to take, just like this podcast folks, to get to the point.

318
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:41.099
So you are very much enmeshed in the narrative and you are really, as much as you can be in a small screen in your front room on a Saturday afternoon, taken along for the ride.

319
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.740
Cinemas are very different approach.

320
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:53.880
I think the failing again in this, especially more so for the 1st film, is trying to just ape the 1st TV series rather than just saying, let's just do something fresh and surprising.

321
00:22:53.940 --> 00:23:00.000
Yes, the Daleks aren't threatening because they're on the big screen and they've now become a piece of Warhol pop art.

322
00:23:00.059 --> 00:23:03.480
British pop, actually, just a Peter Blake piece of pop art.

323
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.759
And they're quite powerful for that.

324
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:12.359
But the thing is, they could have actually been made to be very menacing and that could have been used to even heighten the fear.

325
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.579
There's nothing as scary as a clown face, is there?

326
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.019
All that colour and shininess.

327
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:22.259
And these, but these anodised anodyne, little solatropes that are spinning around there.

328
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:30.000
Yeah, we've kind of got to the point that I'm expecting Sylvester McCoy to come in and blow a raspberry because they're just so silly at this point.

329
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:32.339
You're really easy to push down a tube, aren't they?

330
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.799
Or is that Jill person's wrong in a 2nd?

331
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:40.079
Can we go back to talking about the regular class for a second?

332
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.579
Like, the new regular cars.

333
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:46.559
So they've made the decision to make Susan a little girl.

334
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:47.640
Yeah.

335
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:48.900
Doctor Who.

336
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:49.500
How do you feel about that?

337
00:23:49.559 --> 00:24:01.980
Well, you know, like, I have to say that I actually really like Susie, in both films, and I was really surprised by that, it's clearly an attempt to be child friendly.

338
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:02.759
Do you know what I mean?

339
00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:04.079
We're bringing children to the cinema.

340
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.880
It's an sort of identification character.

341
00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.339
She's not at all unearthly.

342
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:17.039
You know, she's not that weird man at performance that we get from Carol Anne Ford, but she's really plucky and she's sort of really fun.

343
00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:19.259
She's British Empire youth.

344
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.799
She's very much British atwardian fantasy, Edith Nesbit heroin.

345
00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:24.420
I've got to say, I love her.

346
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.619
I think she's she is what she is, isn't she?

347
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:36.059
Were you thinking watching this what would season, is that season 10 have been like if we'd had Amelia rather than Amy Pond?

348
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.160
Oh, a new series.

349
00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:38.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

350
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:39.240
Yeah.

351
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.299
I mean, I mean, Where am I these?

352
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.519
But no, yeah, it's...

353
00:24:44.519 --> 00:25:00.000
As soon as we did have Amelia in that series, I did kind of go, this reminds me of Susie and, you know, she's she's plucky and she's got a bit of attitude without being precocious and irritating.

354
00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:16.079
She really propels the story too. when she's the one that goes off and picks up the, you know, the hootch that the spangly man in the what the... walking around London, like dressed like that.

355
00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:19.259
No, well, that's why I'm dressed like that for this recording.

356
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.859
I shaved my chest and put some serious eye makeup on.

357
00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:24.119
I did wonder.

358
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:32.220
In fact, dear listener, we've had to close the blinds because passing planes were reflecting line with fake chest and blinding local wildlife.

359
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:37.619
Do you remember that story, Barrying, whom we own because he's Paris in...

360
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:38.759
The myth for makers.

361
00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:59.819
But as Alanon, do you remember him telling that story of the, um, Thal extras, the big muscly blokes hanging around in the background were mostly costermongers from Coffin Garden, big burly gut blokes with, you know, with cockney accents who were apparently constantly blowing kisses to each other and camping it up and trying to do Kenneth Williams voices while they were just trying to shoot or just off the...

362
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:01.380
Because they were wearing eye makeup.

363
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:05.640
And I heard that they didn't want their chest show.

364
00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:07.259
Yeah, they had to be paid extra.

365
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:12.779
But and weren't they sort of placated by the fact that it was sort of gorgeous female makeup assistants doing it.

366
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:14.640
That yeah, that helped.

367
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.700
But I think they also got a couple of extra shillings to shake their chest.

368
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.640
Outrageous. what they would have done for a quid.

369
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.200
I mean, the files look stupid in the TV transmitted.

370
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:28.380
However, but they don't know how stupid as they do in the film.

371
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:29.220
Oh, I know.

372
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:34.680
It's like, we are peaceful agrarian farmers who spend 2 hours there. every day.

373
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:36.539
What the heck is going on?

374
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:37.680
Right.

375
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.759
But yeah, um, we can blame George Powell again, okay?

376
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:43.140
Oh, yes, it's very George Palin.

377
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.640
Very easy, George.

378
00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:49.799
But the thing is, the e-lawyer, not the whole point of the time machine is you're not meant to emulate the Eoy.

379
00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:55.859
It's no good being beautiful and fabulous if you're going to be picked up one by one because you don't know how to fight.

380
00:26:55.980 --> 00:27:02.160
So the moment that we were talking about is Susan's hero moment.

381
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:19.079
Yeah, where she goes through, and in both, in both the TV version and the, and the film, she goes to the TARDIS to retrieve the anti-radiation gloves, uh, drugs from the, from the, from the...

382
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:20.640
That's true for the price.

383
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:24.720
From the TARDIS and bring it back to the Dalek city.

384
00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:32.279
And in the TV version, Susan is sort of sort of tragic and flailing our arms around and panicking and things.

385
00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:35.819
But Susie in the film is actually, she's scared.

386
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:42.059
She's got a much bigger set to contend with, you know, more frightening for her.

387
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.599
He's actually able to run instead of running on the spot while people slap all the twists.

388
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:53.279
And so look, she still sells it as a scary moment, but she's just a little bit more comfortable.

389
00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:54.119
I think she's amazing.

390
00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:56.460
She saves this film in every scene she's in.

391
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:58.559
I wouldn't have said that 20 years ago.

392
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.079
What's doubly amazing.

393
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:06.900
And a little bit troubling about how brave Susie is, is it seems to happen at the expense of the character of Barbara.

394
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.819
Because doesn't it, though?

395
00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:10.019
Jenny Linden is Barbara.

396
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.940
There is, you know, there is nothing wrong with her performance.

397
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.420
And I like Jenny Linden in other films I've seen her in at the time.

398
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.480
She's got a lovely comic style and she's, yeah, she's terrific.

399
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.180
But her Barbara is given very little...

400
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.319
A lot of backcoming.

401
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:23.220
Just give me, you know.

402
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.000
Yeah, yeah.

403
00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:24.539
Yeah, right?

404
00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:27.059
Even more backcoming than Jackie Hill, I guess.

405
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:29.700
Yeah, so she makes Jackie Hill look like Sinead O'Connor, really.

406
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:31.200
The hair is higher.

407
00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:32.279
So she is closer to God.

408
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:44.220
But the weird thing is, in the TV version, Barbara sort of gets, Barbara does get a few sort of key moments over the course of the TV version of the Dalek.

409
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.059
There's the cliffhanger she gets, there's coming up with the way to Blind.

410
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:49.980
Yes, the cliffhanger, which is so brilliant.

411
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:55.740
And in fact, that whole, she does, like, I think Jenny's Barbara does sort of wander through the corridors.

412
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:57.480
The very boring looking corridor.

413
00:28:57.539 --> 00:28:59.519
Yeah, yeah, they're not anywhere near as exciting.

414
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.759
And that cliffhanger is there's no sort of suspense to it.

415
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:07.740
Later on with the whole blinding the Dalek thing, you don't see Barbara come up with that idea.

416
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.099
She's just suddenly got the food, the mucky food in her hand.

417
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.400
Actually, she does she does sort of pick it up and look at it thoughtfully.

418
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:16.740
So, wait, this is they're in the prison.

419
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:17.880
They're in the prison.

420
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.839
They're trying to escape.

421
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.180
She shoves some Plato on the dark eye.

422
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:34.140
Yeah, and but the thing that's really missing, I think, which helped define Barbara's character in the TV version is when she's actually agreeing with the doctor and saying, no, we should leave, you know, we've got to save ourselves and Ian brings her around.

423
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:41.880
Jenny Linden's Barbara doesn't do any of that. completely silent throughout that whole thing in the film and it's kind of like the 2 men sort out the problem.

424
00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:44.400
It's a great scene in the TV version too.

425
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:47.640
And I think we did talk about it when we covered it in the podcast.

426
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:53.759
They have a proper marital dispute, you see, in an opera about the ethics of this. a big blowup.

427
00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:54.480
Yeah, yeah.

428
00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:59.039
And so really everything and that's going to be an issue in both films.

429
00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:08.819
Everything cool that Barbara does in the in the TV version gets taken away and given to the men to do in the films and it's a huge shame.

430
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:14.700
I can barely think of anything that totally sucks them, which is why Toby, I think, gets to shine, really.

431
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:22.079
Because she's not sexualised yet, so she's allowed to actually be part of the story and yeah, can we get a little bit feministy here?

432
00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:24.299
No, she doesn't need to be protected.

433
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:28.259
She doesn't need to be, you know, patronised and coddled.

434
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:29.819
Yeah, because no one wants to date her yet.

435
00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:30.539
Yeah, yeah.

436
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.720
Give a 5 years love and you'll be just the same as the rest of it.

437
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:34.859
Oh, where's Jermaine Gregg?

438
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:36.420
Oh, we've got to wait another 5 years.

439
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:59.579
In general, the story streamlined at the expense of characterisation and relationship, because on the TV, because I suppose it was part of an ongoing narrative, you've got lots of character development for the 4 regulars in the TV version, you don't have that here, the characters are so changed and their rough edges are so smoothed out to be that family friendly thing.

440
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:00.299
Yeah.

441
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:14.220
Either by convenience or design, that means it's just, as you said earlier, it's the series of events that happen, rather than the soul of the TV version, it's just the plot in the building blocks.

442
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:22.140
You do have to remember, though, that the TV version has huge amounts of padding, and that's something that I said at the time.

443
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.339
Like it is, it is at the expense of some of the horrendous padding.

444
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:46.259
And in particular, there's that appalling indefensible thing that got the Jenny Laird aboard when I did it before, which was we finished the story in 4 episodes, the doctor pats his pockets and goes, ooh, you know, I've left the fluid link or I must have dropped the time ring in the car led city or something, you know, we'd all better go back.

445
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:48.779
Road trip.

446
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:51.539
And here that's streamlined.

447
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:52.380
Do you know what I mean?

448
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.359
Daleks, take the fluid link from the doctor.

449
00:31:54.420 --> 00:32:00.359
And everyone mysteriously forgets about its existence and has to go back.

450
00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:23.220
But in fact, that leads to a really sort of cool set piece in the film where the files are attacking the Dalek city from the front and then Barbara and Ian and and the nurse and the, uh, heading around the tinnitus and anodyne. heading around the back going by the pipes.

451
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.559
But all of that is so much.

452
00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:29.819
So, like, I think we get a whole episode of them going across that abyss.

453
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.559
Oh my god.

454
00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.940
And the abyss.

455
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.160
Is actually an abyss?

456
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:37.740
Oh, if they go across the abyss, the abyss looks fantastic.

457
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:43.259
Anatodidus has a giant panic attack or whatever he's called.

458
00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:51.599
And in the Terry Nation theme, because Terry Nation is just horrible. he has a sort of huge panic.

459
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:59.220
He falls down the thing and then he cuts himself, he cuts the rope and plummets.

460
00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:03.720
Because he wasn't a man and because he experienced fear, he must die.

461
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:06.960
But in this one, because he's the queerest character in the narrative.

462
00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.339
So therefore he must die.

463
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.019
But in film, he's just mysteriously okay.

464
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:17.279
I know, I cut myself off, but then there was this convenient ledge exactly shaped my hand.

465
00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:18.839
But you're kind of like, you know what, we don't care.

466
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:19.440
We like you.

467
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:21.299
And so he survives.

468
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:22.380
I mean, it is...

469
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:24.420
I mean, who else is going to do all the hair and makeup, yeah.

470
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.180
Intrinsic to foul culture, yeah.

471
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.759
Oh, dear.

472
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:31.259
So what do you reckon about the 1st one?

473
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:32.160
How are you feeling?

474
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:32.700
You know what?

475
00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:37.859
Even though it's got its problems, and it's nowhere as good as the TV version.

476
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:38.880
I still enjoy it.

477
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:42.720
It's a nice bit of 60s pop cinema.

478
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:49.559
And I think what really helps is unlike some of the problems we had with season 3 of Doctor Who.

479
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:55.259
There's, Not as much in it that is offensive.

480
00:33:55.319 --> 00:34:03.000
For the fact that Barbara is a weakened character, We do have the fact that Susan is strengthened because of that.

481
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:09.599
And, you know, there is never any question, because quite often Susan on the TV show, there was the whole thing of, no, you can't do that.

482
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:10.260
You're a young woman.

483
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:14.039
But there's never any question that Susie can't do things.

484
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:17.039
And in fact, she's the most intelligent character in the show.

485
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.739
She's the most responsive to the narrative within the narrative, isn't she?

486
00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:24.900
To the point that Cushing is really just there to be a mirror to the original series.

487
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.500
He's much.

488
00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:28.380
He has much less content and flavour than Billy has.

489
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:29.099
Yeah, absolutely.

490
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.320
Could it be Susan Who and the Daleks?

491
00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:32.039
Yeah, absolutely.

492
00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:32.460
Cool.

493
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:32.880
Yeah.

494
00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:41.340
And I think I think for that, for that alone, that's the great success of the film, that Susie is such a strong character.

495
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.420
And really, she's written the way she should have been written on television.

496
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.119
And look, I mean, it is more accessible.

497
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:49.260
It is more straightforward.

498
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:51.840
The Daleks goes on for like 3 hours, doesn't it?

499
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.420
I mean, it is, it's a bit of a slog.

500
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:55.440
And you know, it was...

501
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:57.360
We should really say it goes on for almost 2 months.

502
00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:00.239
Yeah, but look at how people would have watched it.

503
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:01.079
No, no, of course.

504
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:05.039
And would have forgotten the 1st 3rd by the time the latter 3rd was on.

505
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:06.000
Yeah, yeah.

506
00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:06.900
No, I mean, that's fair enough.

507
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:10.440
No one was forced to sit through it for 3 hours in the 60s.

508
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:16.380
This does sand off, you know, the rough edges of the TV show.

509
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.920
But I think the rough edges of the TV show are what I really like about it.

510
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:20.820
Yeah, agree.

511
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:22.199
But seeing it as adults.

512
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:27.420
As a kid, this was very beautiful when we 1st got colour TV in 77, 78.

513
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:29.760
I should add, in Australia, I think, much like Britain.

514
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:32.880
It was on pretty much at least twice a year.

515
00:35:32.940 --> 00:35:36.420
I remember it being able to see it around the same time.

516
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.519
Catwizzle was repeated in the summer holidays.

517
00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:40.199
So it was Doctor Who and the Dialects.

518
00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:41.460
Was it on the ABC?

519
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:45.000
I seem to, I can't recall that far back.

520
00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:51.960
We can check it out for you, but just sitting there with a big box of Lego making lots of the crunchy noises that you get really did help, right?

521
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:53.940
In the narrative while watching this.

522
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.159
I remember when I was a kid.

523
00:35:56.219 --> 00:36:03.360
It was once or twice a year, Channel 7's midweek movie in the school holidays.

524
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:04.139
That's right.

525
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:04.800
Midday movie.

526
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:05.519
It was seven.

527
00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:05.760
Yep.

528
00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:12.000
Although the 1st time I saw the next film, it was a late night movie on channel 10 and we taped it.

529
00:36:12.059 --> 00:36:14.579
So was this a segue onto the next film?

530
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.139
I think it is a segue?

531
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:16.980
Sound effect?

532
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:17.519
Music.

533
00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:28.199
I don't know what the sound effect is.

534
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:29.340
I don't know.

535
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.500
Gosh, I'm just thrown then.

536
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:32.519
Oh, sorry.

537
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:33.719
That was fantastic.

538
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:34.559
No, no.

539
00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:36.119
I'm chatting away.

540
00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:44.280
Well, can I, am I allowed to have my little moment of indulgence here as we break out the albino chocolate crackles?

541
00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:45.599
But in foul eye makeup.

542
00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:48.360
Now, what we have here. edible ball be.

543
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:49.260
Eagle eyed viewers.

544
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:50.460
Eagle eyed viewers.

545
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:56.940
Eagle eye viewers of the 2nd film may have noticed a theric beam locators.

546
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:07.739
Eagle eye views of the 2nd film may have noticed one or 2 subtle art signs of sugar puffs in the background of the 2nd film.

547
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:15.539
Now, I did my research and sugar puffs aren't really available anymore as sugar puffs.

548
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:23.699
They are available as honey puffs in the United States and as honey something else in Great Britain.

549
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.500
And for those of you who don't know, dear listener.

550
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:31.800
I was just in the United States and actually found... known as Honeypuff to many of his dearest friends.

551
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:38.820
Well, I found a box, but I didn't have room to bring it back in my luggage, and that's what I discovered, but here in Australia, make makes honey wheat.

552
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:41.099
Because what sugar puffs were.

553
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:43.440
They were sugar encrusted puffed wheat.

554
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:45.179
Do we...

555
00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:46.199
Is it product placement?

556
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:48.119
Well, can we contextualise this?

557
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:54.659
So all throughout the underground and all throughout the film, the 2nd film, there are posters for sugar.

558
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.960
There are very, very, very 5 foot tall posters.

559
00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:59.579
Is it product placement?

560
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:00.599
Do you think they paid for it?

561
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:02.340
It the sponsorship.

562
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:03.480
Bankrolled the film.

563
00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:04.139
Really?

564
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:04.619
Yes.

565
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:05.039
Yeah.

566
00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:05.940
Wow.

567
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.820
So you can relive family and friends.

568
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.699
Your memories of waking up in the middle of the bloody blitz.

569
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:13.980
It's really going to sell it.

570
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.860
What do you want to say about yes?

571
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.500
Wait, wait, so what these are?

572
00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:24.360
These, dear listener, are Dalek sugar puff treats.

573
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:29.039
And so they are primary colours, as you can see, on our website.

574
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:36.719
And also I've gone out and got coloured edible ball bearings or couchos, I believe they're pronounced.

575
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:40.679
So, gentlemen, would you like to try a darlic sugar puff treat?

576
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:43.139
You've also...

577
00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:50.400
Very simitudinally. match matched, matched theatheric thing locators.

578
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:55.320
They blue in the 1st film, but a lovely, pleasing shade of mauve in the 2nd film on the drone.

579
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.940
I'm going to grab a yellow one.

580
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:01.860
And they're very simple to make, dealers.

581
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.920
As you'll see, they're only a few ingredients.

582
00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:06.599
I probably should have agreed.

583
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:09.119
We all enjoying the folding at home right now, aren't we?

584
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.300
Yeah, it's all through everyone's Apple eye buds.

585
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.960
I bug. as their nose.

586
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:16.559
AirPods.

587
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:17.460
Cheers to everyone.

588
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.099
They are literally called the earpods, summarised at the side, man.

589
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:20.820
That what they're called.

590
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:21.539
They certainly are.

591
00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:32.639
Well, I really think this 2nd film is interesting as a film, not just as a little bit of hooniness.

592
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:34.860
Well, baking inspiration.

593
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:36.059
Is it the blitz?

594
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.280
I mean, is it, it's several things at once.

595
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:39.780
That's why I reckon it's interesting.

596
00:39:39.840 --> 00:40:06.000
If we can have my usual indulgence here, unlike the way it starts, it's got several styles of filmmaking or thrown in at once, just as what was happening with world cinema at the time, mainstream cinema was conflation of several different things all happening and you had the Hollywood musical, doing really well on top of, well, the colours and the lights on top of some of the styles that were post-war.

597
00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:09.480
We start off with this thing that's almost Krit Kubrick.

598
00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:15.119
It almost presages... almost... almost...

599
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:21.059
In that neorealistic style of the bark, cantata being played over the hood sitting in the car.

600
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:22.079
I love that.

601
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.679
And it's very much you're waiting for Alex to come along with the concert.

602
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:33.840
But this style is actually post-war European, actually starting off with Italians and the Germans are doing it as well.

603
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:37.139
The Bark cantata transposes to a lot.

604
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.860
Then you get a beautiful Michelle Le Grand Free jazz lilting score.

605
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:43.500
And it's really kind of a violent scene.

606
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:45.059
I actually thought it was quite surprised.

607
00:40:45.059 --> 00:40:48.960
Because, you know, poor old Wilf really gets it in the Nadgets, doesn't he?

608
00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:52.079
So it's in the, it's the opening, okay?

609
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:54.420
So, Will, Tom Campbell, um...

610
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:56.039
Tom Campbell...

611
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:57.900
PC Plod, Tom Campbell.

612
00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:58.800
Is it Sir Bernard?

613
00:40:58.860 --> 00:41:02.460
Is that, I believe he, uh, yes, he's, he's better than...

614
00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:03.059
He is in my heart.

615
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:03.780
Yeah, anyway.

616
00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:06.780
Actually, no, I won't get ahead of myself.

617
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:08.699
So he's a copper doing his beat in London.

618
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:09.539
That's right.

619
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:15.360
And it opens with a villain in the car and you get that, the bark played on the piano.

620
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:28.500
And it's partly there, I think, to serve as a queue to indicate that we've gone back there in a very timey, whimey and Stephen Moffati kind of way in the final scene because you actually get the same scene, which is the same very distinctive musical queue.

621
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:35.039
And of course, a lot of TV screenings cut out that pre-title sequence.

622
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:37.260
Gosh, that would be a bit trashy.

623
00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:40.320
Maybe not these days, but...

624
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:43.079
Well, I think I think just because it's slow.

625
00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:45.960
The same reason the MGM wanted to cut out somewhere over the rainbow.

626
00:41:46.019 --> 00:41:47.159
Oh my god.

627
00:41:47.219 --> 00:41:47.820
I know.

628
00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:50.219
Sorry, things better.

629
00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:54.059
You get those little moments of using a classical score.

630
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:57.239
The prisoner does it beautifully as well. film did it.

631
00:41:57.300 --> 00:42:05.579
Slashinger did it. film was doing something, you get a piece of well-known classical music or on this toatcase baroque over a moment of ultraviolence.

632
00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:09.300
It's not quite ultravience, but it is...

633
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.280
That's pretty, that's pretty much ultraviolence.

634
00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:19.559
There's a significant episode of Danger Man, the paper chase it's called with Joan Greenwood and Patrick Magoo and Pat.

635
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:27.960
The scene goes for about 3 or 4 minutes of John Drake being beaten up to a very similar piece of bark on the obstacle.

636
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:29.820
It's just a thing that folk were doing.

637
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:35.760
Then we switch suddenly and violently to London Blitz.

638
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:43.679
It worked really well on TV, but I'm looking at this thinking, Come on, you're 6 weeks out of winning the World Cup.

639
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:49.019
Britain is ruling the world right now and you're wanting to take everybody back to.

640
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:53.039
And what's more, because it's such a bigger production value than the TV version.

641
00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:53.880
It looks so realistic.

642
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:54.659
Doesn't it?

643
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:55.619
And it looks beautiful.

644
00:42:55.619 --> 00:43:02.579
And the model work, when you see the girders land on the police box, that's all a model work and the glass paintings are lovely.

645
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:03.840
Get to that in a second.

646
00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:09.420
But what you then, we jump then from neuralism, realism to, um, what was called Truma film.

647
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.599
Or literally rubble film.

648
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:21.179
And from 46, 47, 48, 49, you had people like Vittorio Dosico bicycle thieves, you might remember that amazing film.

649
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:22.019
Very sad.

650
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.920
The little moments of this that actually mirror images in there.

651
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:26.519
There really are.

652
00:43:26.579 --> 00:43:27.960
And I'll find them, I'll stick them up.

653
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:29.039
I promise this time I will.

654
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:39.119
The film was a style most eponymous with Wolfgang, a stalker, and it, I'll spell his name on the, on the website.

655
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:40.500
I'll put it in the in the show now.

656
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:46.920
Or he's more significantly more well-known Roberto Rossellini's Germany year zero, which is also 1947.

657
00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:54.539
And there are moments, okay, there aren't anodyne Daleks, but the kids in the rubble, the young boy, it's that's what it's harking back to.

658
00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:03.059
So we've suddenly gone from London now, a bit mod, a bit happening now, a little bit of ultraviolence, too, why are we back in the blitz?

659
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:05.820
Even though we've gone into the future.

660
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:07.739
So it is, it is like going back in time.

661
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.139
Yeah, this future thing and we go back in time.

662
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:17.579
I just think it's an appalling mistake and just to preempt the end of this, I reckon this is why the film bombed because the rest of it's actually not that bad.

663
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:23.400
But the, um, I mean, how much was the blitz present in the TV version?

664
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:25.920
Well, you did see...

665
00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.420
You really only saw rubble in the area where they 1st landed.

666
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:46.139
It's true, but for me, my memory of it, 1st time I saw Dialect Invasion of Earth, subsequently, my significant image from the TV episode, are the CUs and middle close-ups of Jackie Hill running through the wasteland, looking terrified.

667
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:50.820
That's the image, which is entirely Roberto Rossellini.

668
00:44:50.880 --> 00:45:04.739
But the, I mean, the thing that's absent from the film, which is so iconic, um, in the, in the TV shows, the Trafalgar Square stuff and the Westminster Bridge stuff where, where the Daleks, you know, that's completely absent.

669
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:06.119
There's no tagging.

670
00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:11.159
No, and the thing is, I think there's a, there's like a painting of St.

671
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:12.300
Paul's Dome in the background.

672
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.639
But where are the vetoed elephants?

673
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:16.380
where the vetoed everything.

674
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:19.199
You know, in the TV version, that...

675
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:34.679
In the TV version, that is where the whole dalek as fascism and Nazism really started because you've got the, you know, you've got the Daleks, they have invaded us and they are wandering up and down in front of our landmarks doing the Nazi salute, you know, and that doesn't happen in the film.

676
00:45:34.739 --> 00:45:50.760
No, and that's, and as we said again, at the time, there was a whole genre of stories about, you know, what if the Nazis had won. you know, like even before that, like surprisingly early, that exists as a thing.

677
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:53.280
And so that's what they're playing often.

678
00:45:53.340 --> 00:46:03.179
Clearly it's still present in the, in this film because you've got collaborators and you've got, you know, the evil Philip Maddock more.

679
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:06.840
More of whom later. the best thing in the entire film.

680
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:12.659
And so you do have all of those sort of things that are that do hark back to World War II.

681
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:22.199
But what you don't get is the absolutely, you know, best moment of Darlic invasion of Earth, which is that incredible location tuning.

682
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:39.059
But they don't get that, they honestly have the patience for it because they immediately jump into a whole other pop style, which I would say, is also very dated and is much more like the neo surrealism or the Louis Bunelle style.

683
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:43.679
There are moments in this that are very much like Bernelles, the young and the damned.

684
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:47.699
Now, Bunyol was the collaborator with Salvador Dali.

685
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:59.400
He later went on to make his own films and was very much, they're a very, the whole thing of that gorgeous, Don't you love how they've taken a flying saucer and mashed it with a 1953 Ford Thunderbird?

686
00:46:59.460 --> 00:47:02.400
That's now the Daleks get round in a hot rod.

687
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:08.880
But there's all the mashup of all these different significances with pop art on the top is pure new surrealist cinema.

688
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:11.699
And those 2 together made Uchianand loud, didn't they?

689
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.360
Yes, yes.

690
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:22.500
Which, of course, does have not quite examples of ultraviolence, but sort of microviolence, you know, you get very focussed images of very violent things happening.

691
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:26.219
And in this film, the dialects actually become a bit scarier again.

692
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:35.460
The one that comes out of the water, which, by the way, that 1st episode is told in 10 minutes, and that includes about 3 minutes of original material and titles.

693
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:36.719
Yeah, absolutely.

694
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:43.199
But it comes out of the water at breakneck speed, and you are actually scared of it this time rather than the TV version, which is...

695
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:46.860
And then it does a jolly little Ursula Andrews hip shake.

696
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:47.820
Did you notice that?

697
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:50.099
just at the end of it, just to sort of go and look at me.

698
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:55.800
But also, when the saucer lands and they're escorting slaves and that one makes a break for it.

699
00:47:55.860 --> 00:47:58.559
And the Daleks hunt him down and no one will help him.

700
00:47:58.619 --> 00:47:59.820
Is that David Graham?

701
00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:02.219
It looks a lot like David.

702
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.159
It is, it's actually professional stuntman.

703
00:48:05.219 --> 00:48:07.320
And when he climbed up on the awning and fell through.

704
00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:07.920
He broke his leg.

705
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:08.579
Really?

706
00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:08.880
He does.

707
00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:10.559
And he just was watching it.

708
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:11.219
It keeps on going.

709
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.639
We were saying, it looks a really violent fall through 3 stories.

710
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:16.800
Yeah, and the thing is, he then has to get up again.

711
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:21.960
So he sort of half gets up and then he shot down because he kind of went, well, I can't do it again.

712
00:48:22.019 --> 00:48:23.340
So I'll just get on with it.

713
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:27.239
And because of that, because of his frenzy action.

714
00:48:27.300 --> 00:48:38.940
That makes the Dalek scary again, plus, with the exception of the Daleks in charge, this time around all the Daleks in uniform, they're that beautiful silver and blue, which is one of my, that's one of my favourite Dalek designs.

715
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:43.739
It's less pop art. you know, we are soldiers.

716
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:44.400
We mean business.

717
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:45.599
We are here in uniforms.

718
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:51.659
And we get them on the streets at night, lit front lip and back lip, and they look amazing.

719
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:53.820
Yeah, lots of good things in this.

720
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:56.219
And it's maybe it's the whole tooting beck.

721
00:48:56.219 --> 00:49:03.300
Yawning more of the scary furry dummy effect that having them in London does work.

722
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:04.139
It really does.

723
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:06.480
There's certainly a better directed film than the 1st one.

724
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:07.199
Yeah, it is.

725
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:12.599
There's a lot more going on for the viewer, but the 1st time felt like a Edwardian fantasy story, just transposed.

726
00:49:12.659 --> 00:49:17.099
This one is doing huge amounts of things all over everybody into everyone.

727
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:21.360
It's Quatermatt and Triffords and Chuck Jones as well.

728
00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:31.500
If you leap forward to the saucer scenes, you've got Bernard Cribbons doing Chuck Jones' Daffy Duck in the 24th and a half centuries.

729
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:33.000
With the boot machine.

730
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.679
And the same helmet as mum.

731
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:36.659
It really is.

732
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:37.800
Can we have a little moment?

733
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:40.320
Do we all jump forward to the to the source of scene?

734
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:42.480
So wealth is in there.

735
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:47.039
We haven't got the companions from the previous film back and I don't know why.

736
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:49.320
Why is Jenny Linden not in this?

737
00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:50.519
I don't know.

738
00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:51.840
She had a career?

739
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.119
I assume it's just availability.

740
00:49:54.179 --> 00:49:55.920
I mean, Roy Castle was in very high demand.

741
00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:57.840
Yeah, they were lucky to get...

742
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.460
No, he was a big...

743
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.280
Well, vaudeville was still a big thing, which is why you're getting the slapstick.

744
00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:04.320
And he's actually a very, very talented dancer.

745
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:05.820
Really?

746
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:06.179
Yeah.

747
00:50:06.179 --> 00:50:06.599
Yes.

748
00:50:06.659 --> 00:50:09.780
And so he was, he was too busy dancing and being strange.

749
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:13.199
He was the Michael Crawford of his generation.

750
00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:14.340
And you know what?

751
00:50:14.340 --> 00:50:15.300
He really was.

752
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:17.519
And one of the highest paid stars in Britain.

753
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:22.619
I imagine if they couldn't get one of them, they probably just went, you know, there's meant to be a unit, a relationship there.

754
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.119
So, yeah, yeah.

755
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:33.239
So we have Louise instead of Barbara, Louise who, and we have, and we, and we have Bernard Cribbons as Tom Campbell.

756
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:41.400
And, and like, we all love Bernard Cribbons because Wilf, Donna's grandfather is so incredibly fantastic.

757
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:48.179
And part of the fun of watching it now, which wouldn't have been present when you 1st watched it, is seeing little wilf moments.

758
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.980
Yes. in Tom Campbell.

759
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:54.360
Especially in his face, just so... that they just make you love him so much.

760
00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:58.739
Do you notice how much the camera focusses on cribbers in this cinema?

761
00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.880
He's using this film.

762
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:01.800
He's given a lot of close-ups.

763
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:04.019
I think he's actually extraordinary to watch.

764
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:05.280
He's really good.

765
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:06.840
And so the scene you were talking about.

766
00:51:06.900 --> 00:51:10.980
He's dressed in vinyl Bernard Cribbons in vinyl.

767
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:11.940
Thank you, Ron.

768
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:12.179
Rod.

769
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.179
So he's dressed in vinyl.

770
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:19.860
He's pretending to be a robo man, trying to goose step and falling out.

771
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:21.480
Yeah, the roba mineral.

772
00:51:21.539 --> 00:51:23.880
And the robamen are sort of crummy.

773
00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:25.260
Who dresses them in vinyl?

774
00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:27.000
How does that happen?

775
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.440
They dress each other, therefore.

776
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.360
Well, just at gunpoint to dress each other in vine.

777
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:32.159
Haven't you noticed that before undergoing the process?

778
00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:34.139
I have been to San Francisco before.

779
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:46.860
That moment where there's the goose stepping, he's falling out of step, is actually intrinsically violent and intrinsically frightening because we know that there's an ontological threat.

780
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:48.900
If he does fall out of step.

781
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:53.400
This silly sequence, unlike all the Roy Castle stuff where it's just prep balls in the 1st film.

782
00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:56.400
If this goes wrong, he'll be noticed and shot.

783
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:01.980
I have, except that there aren't really any Daleks there watching them.

784
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:06.719
Oh, one of the other guys, you don't, you know, the point is there's tension where there wouldn't have been in the 1st film.

785
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:08.099
Yeah, it is tension and comedy.

786
00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:12.239
Yeah, which is what and one heightens the other and that's the classic thing to do.

787
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.679
And he is wonderful in it.

788
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.239
I mean, he is really terrific.

789
00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:18.420
And Bernard Cribbons was sort of a star on the rise.

790
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:22.619
This was a couple of years after he was the star of Carry on Jack.

791
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.079
Carry on Columbus, as it was remade.

792
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:29.940
With Julian Clary playing the part of Bernard Cribbins.

793
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:31.980
There you go, dear listener.

794
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.579
Rick Male was in that too. as the...

795
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:36.360
Alexi Sale.

796
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:38.639
John Pertley was in it and Bernard Cribbens as well.

797
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.579
Because everyone was the reanimated corpse.

798
00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:42.599
Yeah, I couldn't get that.

799
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:44.039
Oh, no, it was 1993.

800
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:44.699
Oh, okay.

801
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:45.900
John was still with us.

802
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:46.860
Apologies.

803
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:50.639
Yeah, John and Jim Dale. moving moving back.

804
00:52:50.699 --> 00:53:02.820
Bernard Cribbens was, he was in a very interesting stage in his career at that point because he was getting lead roles as a romantic lead, as he is in this film as he was in Carry on Jack.

805
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.639
But he was also the comedy lead.

806
00:53:05.699 --> 00:53:09.900
He was the prat falling guy who got the girl at the end of the film.

807
00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:18.119
It was kind of, it was a coup for them to get Roy Castle because he was big and it was a coup for them to get Bernard Cribbons as well.

808
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:23.699
But I think Berner Cribbens is far more successful in the formula of the story.

809
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.360
His comedy in the story doesn't distract in a way.

810
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:37.139
I felt that the Royal Castle comedy did, which, you know, it's not the fault of Roy Castle, but just Bernard Cribbon seems a bit more naturalistic and fits in a bit.

811
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:43.920
Yeah, and he has a bumbling, innocent, blokey charm, a child, blokey charm that isn't in the 1st picture.

812
00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:53.039
But, I mean, for me, it is just impossible to divorce him from Will, and I just rewatched the end of time parts one and two.

813
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:57.300
And like you just see moments of Wilf in his face.

814
00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:58.860
He thinks it's just glorious.

815
00:53:58.980 --> 00:54:02.099
It's really special, I think.

816
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:05.760
And so anyone who hasn't seen it, who's familiar with fear.

817
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:09.900
New series should go and watch it immediately because it is really funny for that.

818
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:12.300
Can we talk about Louise who?

819
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:13.739
And we've done.

820
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:15.840
I think we've seen everything that needs to be sent.

821
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:18.840
So she has she has moments of drama.

822
00:54:18.900 --> 00:54:35.039
She's, you know, she's escaping the Roberman and she suddenly finds a nice slidy pantry cupboard door with the same door handles that your grandma had on her cupboard and goes into what looks like the gimp closet with all the Roberman helmets on a normal shelf far too high for a dialect to reach.

823
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:38.039
And then all the whips nicely array on little hooks.

824
00:54:38.099 --> 00:54:42.719
She has a moment of pause there and she thinks, what the hell am I doing in this film?

825
00:54:43.019 --> 00:54:45.599
She stays there about half an hour.

826
00:54:45.659 --> 00:54:47.579
Oh, yeah, you know, she's a game girl, I guess.

827
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.340
She's wearing a lovely outfit.

828
00:54:50.400 --> 00:55:05.039
Well, that really is a sort of theory about that. that she later when we found a read that she later ends up running a lady boy bar in Cooter Beach Bangkok, Sherlock Homosexuals and...

829
00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:08.519
Well, I mean, she's kind of dressed dressed in that, Louise, who?

830
00:55:09.300 --> 00:55:14.039
Spicy dressed as a future campy Benedict Cumberbatch, you know.

831
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:16.860
Yeah, it's a sort of Tweedy... outfit.

832
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:18.539
I love it. she looks fabulous.

833
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:19.920
What I think it ends.

834
00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:22.260
It's the producer said.

835
00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:25.199
We obviously can't afford Diana Rigg.

836
00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:30.119
Let's get someone who looks like it, put her in an outfit that Diana Rig would wear and cash in on the Avengers thing.

837
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:33.119
She's wearing the courageous little yellow go-go boots, yeah.

838
00:55:33.179 --> 00:55:34.800
She's hugely pretty.

839
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.539
I mean, she's she's gorgeous.

840
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:38.219
But she's given literally nothing to do.

841
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:48.960
I mean, if you want if you want someone to emulate Diana Rigg, you shouldn't get all of Barbara's cool moments from the TV version and then give them to other people.

842
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:53.820
So Barbara gets to, you know, mow down.

843
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:54.300
Don't worry.

844
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:55.079
Yeah, that's right.

845
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:56.639
That's now a bloke stuff.

846
00:55:56.699 --> 00:55:57.840
Yeah, that's bloke stuff.

847
00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:00.360
And she's even wearing Perkwee's Inverness cape English.

848
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:01.380
She could have done it really well.

849
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:07.380
I love that you mentioned that Bedford van thing because this is where it really just drains and it starts off.

850
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:11.579
It looks so potent, you've got six, seven, 8 Daleks, and they get into the Red Bedford Mac.

851
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:14.880
Do we think we can actually get an inkling into Dalek religion in this moment?

852
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:18.719
We realise that Daleks worship the god of Bedford.

853
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:23.579
Because not only do they not fire on this little red dinky car when it comes to them.

854
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:25.019
They scarp her out of their shells.

855
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:26.760
When things get knocked over, they're hollow.

856
00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:28.679
Yeah, no, terrible.

857
00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:30.960
Emergency temporal.

858
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:34.019
Only, only ground, only ground crew, darling.

859
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:35.039
Only drone darlic.

860
00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:37.800
Sauce of Darlic Scone, I will boggle the hell out of the ball.

861
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:38.460
Oh, we'll blow it.

862
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:41.940
And then they come in and it's just and bang, and then it's gone.

863
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.719
It melts down and it's just like you burnt your tall corgy cars back in the 70s.

864
00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:46.860
That's a great moment.

865
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:48.300
Except, of course, it's a little bit.

866
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:50.820
You think, where's Roberto Tovey in the scene?

867
00:56:50.820 --> 00:56:53.639
And suddenly Wiley gets up and there she was.

868
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.659
Robert I mean, Roberta Tovey gets things to do.

869
00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:58.920
She gets things done.

870
00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:09.300
Yeah, yeah, she leads a note for the doctor, which he completely misses despite the fact it's huge and written on a wall and foregrounded in the shot, like the director foreground.

871
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:13.440
Suddenly enough, would be used by Derek Sherwin later in the invasion.

872
00:57:13.500 --> 00:57:14.519
You can't lose a wall.

873
00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:15.840
So write a message on the wall.

874
00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:17.159
Oh, of course.

875
00:57:17.219 --> 00:57:18.059
Fantastic.

876
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:21.179
But I mean, the really interesting thing about character in this film.

877
00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:22.199
Unlike the 1st film.

878
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:24.960
Characters here are changed.

879
00:57:25.019 --> 00:57:27.059
Jenny, for instance is completely absent.

880
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:28.500
The character of Jenny.

881
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:29.280
Oh, God, I hate you.

882
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.119
I know you hate Jenny.

883
00:57:30.179 --> 00:57:38.400
Louise replaces Craddock in the plot because Craddock gets robotised here, whereas in the TV version, he travels with Ian.

884
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:41.159
Instead, it's Louise travelling with the Ian character of Tom.

885
00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:42.960
She doesn't actually do anything.

886
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:45.659
No, well, and really neither does credit.

887
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:50.880
Kind of just is an exposition machine for saying, well, this happened to her, and that happened to her.

888
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:51.960
Oh, there's my dead brother.

889
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:53.159
Oh, I'll kill us both.

890
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:55.320
Susan replaces Barbara.

891
00:57:55.380 --> 00:58:02.039
She doesn't drive the truck, but Susan and Weiler. who replaces who replaces Jenny travel along together.

892
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:10.800
And there's a lovely little character moment where Wiler and Susan are wandering around a wood on their way to Bedfordshire or wherever they're heading.

893
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:14.639
And Susan runs ahead and hides behind a tree and jumps out and boom.

894
00:58:14.699 --> 00:58:17.820
Which is like the one kiddie childish thing.

895
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.880
She does in 2 films and he just turns around, knock that off.

896
00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:24.239
Don't do that in this post-apocalyptic wasteland.

897
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:25.800
It serves no hot purpose.

898
00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:26.519
It's for trying.

899
00:58:26.579 --> 00:58:28.260
But it really works.

900
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:36.659
Possibly because, you know, Susie is about 7 and David Campbell is still in his early 20s, the doctor travels with David instead.

901
00:58:36.719 --> 00:58:38.280
And that leads to a...

902
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:41.099
Not David Campbell, of course. isn't it?

903
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:44.880
No, no, he's David, but he doesn't get a last name because Tom has the last name.

904
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.320
Of Campbell. right.

905
00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:53.159
But it leads to another one of my favourite scenes in the film, which is the doctor and David are walking along and looking at a map.

906
00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:56.940
And the guy who played David, I've forgotten his name.

907
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:57.659
Ray Brooks.

908
00:58:57.719 --> 00:58:58.860
Ray Brooks.

909
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:00.059
He's good.

910
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:06.239
He was, he was, he had just started a film called The Knack, which is why in the trailers, he's the boy with the knack.

911
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:09.360
So he was kind of England's answer. how to get it.

912
00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:10.559
It's a great little film too.

913
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:15.360
He was kind of England's answer to James D. You know, he was this young heartthrob.

914
00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:20.099
So they give him this rather incongruous action scene.

915
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.219
He and Doctor Who are wandering along and checking the map, what have you?

916
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:33.360
And suddenly a roberman appears out of nowhere in this forest and Ray Brooks throws Peter Cushing to the side, has a fight scene, deals with the guy and Peter Cushing just gets up and picks up the map.

917
00:59:33.420 --> 00:59:35.760
Yes, we're headed to Bedfordshire as if nothing's happening.

918
00:59:35.820 --> 00:59:37.980
And it's a great ultra cool moment.

919
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:39.059
It is, really.

920
00:59:39.179 --> 00:59:43.260
Do you know what I've just remembered is, doesn't the transmitted version have crocodiles in the sewer?

921
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:44.699
Yes.

922
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:46.679
Where are the crocodiles in the sewer?

923
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:48.119
Yes, why do we not get that?

924
00:59:48.179 --> 00:59:50.699
We don't get the sleeper birds did that.

925
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.659
They did.

926
00:59:51.659 --> 00:59:52.739
Where's the slither?

927
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:55.679
That's a very effective movie.

928
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.599
That's one of the reasons that I...

929
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:04.920
Also, there are characters referenced that we never get to see in this form, the most significant one for me, and we haven't got to Eileen Way yet.

930
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:12.480
You know, when they 1st go to the underground rebel HQ and meet the bloke in the winter.

931
01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:14.699
Dortmund, Dortmund, who looks like Kenneth Brannhard.

932
01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:16.199
What's the 1st...

933
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:18.420
Exactly.

934
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:20.159
But what's the 1st thing they say when they open the door?

935
01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:21.539
Did you notice the password?

936
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.159
Mildred Coachwire?

937
01:00:23.219 --> 01:00:24.719
No, I don't know what that is.

938
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:25.619
It's the 1st thing I say.

939
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:27.840
Mildred K When are we going to see Mildred Kobe?

940
01:00:27.900 --> 01:00:28.380
She never appeared.

941
01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:31.260
Well, I think it's either away.

942
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:43.800
Playing a part of Mildred Coatwire and she's unspecified as a, and they're all bloody terrified of her as they should be because she has 2 or 3 just there's 2 or 3 moments on the centre of the screen and she's the scariest thing.

943
01:00:43.860 --> 01:00:44.699
You don't need a thing.

944
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:46.559
She's far scarier than the TV counterpart.

945
01:00:46.619 --> 01:00:48.539
Isn't she a great actor?

946
01:00:48.599 --> 01:00:50.159
So, but it is...

947
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:53.639
So, one of the things a woman who says humans for soup, yeah.

948
01:00:53.699 --> 01:00:55.199
We sacrifice all of these...

949
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:58.679
And Sheila Staple, of course, who's the younger woman.

950
01:00:59.579 --> 01:01:01.500
It's terrifying.

951
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:06.840
We sacrifice all of this fantastic location shooting in London, which we get in the TV version.

952
01:01:06.900 --> 01:01:13.679
But we do get this fantastic location stuff in the country, which I think works really well in the 2nd half of the film.

953
01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:26.519
And so Susie and Wyler end up, you know, at the house of the collaborators who make the frocks for the people who are working in the Bedford mine.

954
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:27.719
And of course...

955
01:01:27.780 --> 01:01:30.300
It's Eileen Way.

956
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:34.980
And the house is beautiful and spectacular, like the whole thing looks great.

957
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:42.539
And Eileen Way is every bit as menacing as she is in, uh, in, uh, creature from the pit.

958
01:01:42.539 --> 01:01:43.440
The creature from the pit.

959
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:49.199
And she really, she really still, she's a much better actress than she's given credit for.

960
01:01:49.260 --> 01:01:51.900
I could be wrong because I watched these films before I went to America.

961
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:55.500
I could be wrong, but I believe in Eileen's way house that there is no fire.

962
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:00.000
And if I am wrong, it's still a good joke.

963
01:02:00.059 --> 01:02:01.260
So, you know, don't write in.

964
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:12.239
With this whole, you know, Louise is kind of just put there to look like Emma Peel in the trailer.

965
01:02:12.420 --> 01:02:19.260
And then, so once you get in, you know, you won't realise that she doesn't have much of a character because your cinema's already got your money.

966
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.380
Barbara is sidelined as well.

967
01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:26.099
But in both films, character...

968
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:27.300
But in the 1st film.

969
01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:28.380
Oh, sorry, yes, yes.

970
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:32.280
So Barbara is sidelined as well in the 1st film.

971
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:39.360
It seems like the attitude is you can only have one strong woman per film.

972
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:42.179
And it's got to be Roberta Toby.

973
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:51.179
Now, of course, I have no objection to refer to Toby being a strong character, but it just feels so... that you can only have one strong woman per film.

974
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:58.980
Well, I don't even know why Louise is there, I guess, because you want, like, you've got the old guy and then you want a male and female lead.

975
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:01.079
But Louise doesn't do anything.

976
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:15.059
Louise is there as a she's there as a motivation for Tom Campbell. to impress her and save her and, you know, we shouldn't still have to talk about this in 2014, but that was my problem with the new Godzilla film.

977
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:17.460
Spoiler alert for those of you who haven't seen it.

978
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:20.639
The women in the film exist solely as motivations for the male characters.

979
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:21.780
It's really poorly done.

980
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:23.340
Otherwise, it was a very good film.

981
01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:27.179
But they have no character other than I've said this about that film as well.

982
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:28.139
It really stands up.

983
01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:29.340
You don't expect it anymore.

984
01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:33.300
But I guess in 1963, there was just a lot of unrevolution going on.

985
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.840
Yeah, it's kind of weird because...

986
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:38.579
You know, this is now 66.

987
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:39.300
Yeah.

988
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:44.940
It's very strange because visually, Barbara and Louise are strong screen presences.

989
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:46.559
You know, they've got a very strong silhouette.

990
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:48.539
They're both wearing trousers.

991
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:48.840
Yes.

992
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:57.000
You know, they they are taking on what would be considered a modern feminine appearance.

993
01:03:57.059 --> 01:04:06.239
They are challenging the notions of femininity in the way they dress and in the way they appear, but then they're given nothing to do.

994
01:04:06.300 --> 01:04:08.579
It's very, very strange.

995
01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:13.800
And I mean, it's particularly strange for Doctor Who, where women were getting strong roles.

996
01:04:16.380 --> 01:04:25.440
The outstanding parts of this film are, the little bits that are inside it, little bits that are tertiary level.

997
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:40.980
The best characters are the fleeting ones, and maybe that's a nice way to take away from a film you've mentioned, wow, that little moment with the Bedford, um, Bedfordshire map and that great little moment with David and the whole, and the doctor just completely ignoring it.

998
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:42.599
It's the characters that are almost ignored.

999
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:43.559
You've got ironingway.

1000
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:45.300
Oh, you've got Philip Maddock.

1001
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:46.800
He's spectacular.

1002
01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:48.539
I mean that performance is so great.

1003
01:04:48.599 --> 01:05:01.860
He's the darkest thing in this film. a transcript, playing a kind of John Lacare figure, but a Smiley's people character from, you know, with just, again, we've had the Burgess Willby McLean scandals blown up.

1004
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:08.699
He's straight out of the Cambrigeshire backlot of nefarious baddies who you think you're on your side, but you can never trust them.

1005
01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:16.320
I mean, it is a character that is in the TV version. but never meets the doctor in the TV He gets killed quite quickly, actually.

1006
01:05:16.619 --> 01:05:17.820
Yes, yeah, by the sliver.

1007
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:19.380
By the slither.

1008
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:22.199
See, this is what you lose from not having the slither in your film.

1009
01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:32.219
He's so sort of oleaginous and so he sort of underplays it and there's a smile and you like at the very end.

1010
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:36.059
I have to say, you know, I'd seen the film decades ago.

1011
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:42.300
But I actually thought at the very end where he offers to help that he was actually really offering to help.

1012
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:53.099
And then when the doors open and the Daleks are all out there and the doctor says, I mean, sorry, Doctor Who says, oh, you know, don't worry, I expected you to betray us.

1013
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:59.579
I was actually slightly disappointed because I actually thought he was, you know, like he had enough self-interest to do the right thing.

1014
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:01.260
He was just terrific.

1015
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:07.380
And, you know, they're cooking the beans and the doctor and David says, oh, they smell nice.

1016
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:09.960
And then he just kicks the beans over for no reason.

1017
01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:11.340
He's terrific.

1018
01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:14.820
That scene with Doctor Who talking to.

1019
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.159
I think he's still called Ashton.

1020
01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:19.199
Philip made its character.

1021
01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:26.400
I think that's Peter Cushing's best scene in the 2 films because his doctor finally shows a bit of guile.

1022
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.239
When he steps when he steps out and just completely unflappable.

1023
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:30.840
That's all right.

1024
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:31.920
I expected you to betray me.

1025
01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:33.420
Yeah, I can imagine Billy doing that.

1026
01:06:33.480 --> 01:06:37.320
But, you know, Billy would have turned around and how dare you?

1027
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:39.239
But Peter Cushion's just like, no, I'm just very quiet.

1028
01:06:39.300 --> 01:06:42.900
I'm very calm, but It's actually very sanguine, you know, and you're very cool.

1029
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:46.679
So he will see he knows he's going to be taken prisoner, whereas he's going to be shot.

1030
01:06:46.739 --> 01:06:50.400
We will see more Philip Maddock in series 6.

1031
01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:53.579
Yes. subsequently a bunch of times as well.

1032
01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:56.940
He's really a highlight, I think, in this film, he's fabulous.

1033
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:10.019
So, can we go on to talk about why we didn't get a 3rd film?

1034
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.780
There was some talk of there being a 3rd film.

1035
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:14.400
We did speak about this.

1036
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:16.019
We touched on this briefly, yeah.

1037
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:20.159
We've seen the trailer for it, which we will put up the link again because it's brilliant.

1038
01:07:20.219 --> 01:07:21.719
Mr. Orton.

1039
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:22.139
Well done.

1040
01:07:22.199 --> 01:07:30.599
There was some talk about it being keys of mariners because it was 3 nation scripts that they bought. deal with Terry Nation, yeah.

1041
01:07:30.659 --> 01:07:45.119
But I mean, the absolute lack of interest in the production, on the production team's part, in the doctor and his companions suggests that it would have had to be the chase, which I just think would have been spectacular.

1042
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:51.360
See, I think you could make peace of mariners, put the Daleks in instead of the board, because they already changed this script a fair bit.

1043
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:58.980
I put the Daleks in instead of the board, had them chasing them around Marinus, because you remember one of the complaints I had about Keisha Marinus as the board just sitting there doing nothing.

1044
01:07:59.099 --> 01:08:02.639
And you know, and you could have the Daleks chasing them in the Mac.

1045
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:03.719
That would have been really interesting.

1046
01:08:03.780 --> 01:08:09.059
And also maybe go get away from the Doctor Who character and the target, just have different people doing it.

1047
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:11.699
Might have been...

1048
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.199
Yeah, it's hard to see the Daleks take, take, take 1st step rather than just...

1049
01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:18.779
I actually think they're just not really interesting enough.

1050
01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:19.800
Daleks.

1051
01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:20.640
Yeah, yeah.

1052
01:08:20.699 --> 01:08:25.079
Maybe in the new series, they've got a bit more interesting, but essentially, you know, they're just not.

1053
01:08:25.140 --> 01:08:25.979
They can't move very well.

1054
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:27.720
They don't have CG and all this.

1055
01:08:27.779 --> 01:08:33.119
You do get a lot of distance shots of them just standing static around an explosion. for too long.

1056
01:08:33.180 --> 01:08:38.640
In fact, I actually found some of the direction in the Dalek ship in the in the 2nd film really off putting.

1057
01:08:38.699 --> 01:08:49.680
So they're using a handheld camera and it's really juddery and like they're tracking daleks going up and down ramps and things and the whole thing is sort of really off putting and actually really not very much fun to watch.

1058
01:08:49.979 --> 01:08:56.159
And so I actually found the Daleks a bit tiresome.

1059
01:08:56.220 --> 01:08:59.399
They're very easily defeated.

1060
01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:00.479
Oh, and that's fantastic.

1061
01:09:00.539 --> 01:09:01.319
No, no.

1062
01:09:01.380 --> 01:09:02.039
That's awesome.

1063
01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:07.380
I love the fact that they speed down corridors and fall down the hole, you know, all of that sort of thing is.

1064
01:09:07.380 --> 01:09:09.960
Yeah, their safety rail seems to be made out of toenails.

1065
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:11.819
It's terrific.

1066
01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:13.739
All of that stuff is really great.

1067
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:16.800
But a lot of the direction is sort of really weird.

1068
01:09:16.859 --> 01:09:18.779
And I just don't think they're very interesting.

1069
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:35.039
I think, you know, I think that, um, Whoever told Terry Nation, no, we're not going to do a TV show based on the Daleks, whoever did that deserves a medal or an OBE or something because it just would have been terrible.

1070
01:09:35.100 --> 01:09:36.779
I mean, who's kind of interested?

1071
01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:42.960
a few other people agreed with you back in the day Anyway, we'll get to the Daleks next episode.

1072
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:44.159
Yeah, will.

1073
01:09:44.220 --> 01:09:57.060
This film did have a bit of an afterlife. as well in that, I alluded earlier, there was an attempt at a radio series and there was a pilot recorded Doctor Who Journey into Time.

1074
01:09:57.060 --> 01:09:58.380
Now very little is known about it.

1075
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:10.619
The recording's been lost, but the script has been published by Richard Bignall in an issue of his magazine, Nothing at the end of the lane, which focusses on unproduced Doctor Who, unmade stories, that sort of thing.

1076
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:17.039
And I believe there is a fan group trying to get a recording off the ground who have recorded it.

1077
01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:18.960
I haven't been able to find it in time for this podcast.

1078
01:10:19.020 --> 01:10:21.239
If I find it during editing, I'll put up the link.

1079
01:10:21.300 --> 01:10:28.079
But it was going to feature Doctor Who, Susan and a character called Mike.

1080
01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:33.720
But there is no concrete, um, indication of who was playing who.

1081
01:10:34.199 --> 01:10:44.340
It was publicised as a 52 episode radio series that would start Peter Cushing, but there's no indication as to whether he actually recorded it.

1082
01:10:44.399 --> 01:10:49.439
He was asked in his later years, and he said he couldn't remember it, but that doesn't mean he's been remembered.

1083
01:10:50.340 --> 01:10:53.699
We would have had to have a series of podcasts about that.

1084
01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:55.439
Yes, it's been nice.

1085
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:56.460
Can you imagine?

1086
01:10:56.819 --> 01:11:00.359
But you think of Cushing's performance overall in this?

1087
01:11:02.039 --> 01:11:04.020
I think it's...

1088
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:06.180
It's okay.

1089
01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:07.199
It's inoffensive.

1090
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:11.880
But then he has moments where you think, yeah, he's a cinema actor and you've mentioned 2 of them.

1091
01:11:11.939 --> 01:11:12.359
Yeah.

1092
01:11:12.420 --> 01:11:21.239
And it's just like, you know, I wish you could have played it like that the whole time, but I just think back to what my mother said of this was him going, I don't have to be a mean person.

1093
01:11:21.300 --> 01:11:24.720
I can just play this as a character who is exactly as he appears.

1094
01:11:24.779 --> 01:11:28.199
He is a kind old, intelligent, slightly dotty man.

1095
01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:30.600
I don't need to play someone with hidden depths.

1096
01:11:30.659 --> 01:11:32.520
It could have been very refreshing.

1097
01:11:32.579 --> 01:11:33.420
I think.

1098
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:36.960
He has the worst wig, this out of keeper of Tracans.

1099
01:11:37.020 --> 01:11:38.460
Especially in this one, girl.

1100
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:41.220
And in this 2nd film, he has an auton face.

1101
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:42.060
It's all shiny.

1102
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:44.640
Yes, it is, which is weird too, in itself.

1103
01:11:44.640 --> 01:11:46.319
What was it of Day of the Daleks?

1104
01:11:46.380 --> 01:11:49.020
Yeah, exactly. controller.

1105
01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:49.500
Yes exactly.

1106
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:54.359
I think there's a bit of slap that's left over for the 1000s.

1107
01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:56.880
The thars gave him makeup, yes, the last film.

1108
01:11:57.060 --> 01:12:00.180
William Hartnell snuck into his dressing room and replaced his foundation.

1109
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:04.079
Harold died.

1110
01:12:07.140 --> 01:12:07.979
What I was going to say.

1111
01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:19.920
I just wonder how good this film or how different these films would have been if you'd had Billy and say, you know, Jacqueline Hill or just like, you know, a few of the other members of the original cast, but 2 have had Hartnell doing this.

1112
01:12:19.979 --> 01:12:21.539
I think he would have really shown.

1113
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:25.199
It would have been his chance to say, I am a cinema actor and I can feel the screen.

1114
01:12:25.319 --> 01:12:26.939
And he's certainly done it before.

1115
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:27.899
Yes, he's been.

1116
01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:29.520
Yeah, he was a film actor.

1117
01:12:29.579 --> 01:12:32.460
I think it would have been really interesting to see.

1118
01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:43.800
I think what's nice, though, is there was a fan conception in the 80s that the reason it didn't have the TV cast was that the producer said, oh, they're not big names.

1119
01:12:43.859 --> 01:12:46.859
I think they might have also not been available for contracting.

1120
01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:48.659
Well, exactly, exactly right busy.

1121
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:50.399
Verity has said in later years.

1122
01:12:50.460 --> 01:12:57.840
You know, there was some talk, but we all agreed that they wouldn't have time to do it because we would have had to stop the TV series and Hartnell didn't want to do that.

1123
01:12:57.899 --> 01:13:01.020
He wanted to keep going on television rather than appear in the film.

1124
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:04.859
Yeah, if he would have said, you know, maybe along the lines.

1125
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:05.579
We've already done that.

1126
01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:06.180
Yes.

1127
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:10.199
I mean, you know, if he had the chance to do both, he probably would have jumped at it because he loved the role.

1128
01:13:10.260 --> 01:13:16.260
But yeah, it is nice that they were considered to be... didn't know that.

1129
01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:17.460
Yeah. glad that they were.

1130
01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:21.600
Interestingly, we've got another segment on what does Rob think?

1131
01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:26.399
Shortly before we started watching everything in order.

1132
01:13:26.460 --> 01:13:32.340
Um, I said, oh, you'll probably like it more when we get up too, the 4th doctor.

1133
01:13:32.460 --> 01:13:35.039
And he said, oh, John Pertway.

1134
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:39.060
And I said, no, no, no, no, no.

1135
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:40.739
John Pertley is the 3rd doctor.

1136
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:42.539
No, Patrick Trouton is the 3rd doctor.

1137
01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:46.500
And I just went, Okay, Patrick Carton's the 3rd doctor.

1138
01:13:46.560 --> 01:13:47.460
Who's the 2nd doctor for you?

1139
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:48.539
Peter Cushing.

1140
01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:52.739
Rob thought that Hartnell turned into Cushing.

1141
01:13:53.159 --> 01:13:56.100
But a couple of films. did a couple of films.

1142
01:13:56.220 --> 01:14:02.159
So Rob thought that, you know, you had the TV, they did a couple of films, and then it went back to TV afterwards.

1143
01:14:02.220 --> 01:14:04.859
And I had to explain to him that, no, that's not the case, I did.

1144
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:06.899
Now, Rod is a huge Godzilla fan.

1145
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:14.039
And the way he rationalised this because, you know, when you've thought something is true for a very long time, you need to remind yourself that it's not.

1146
01:14:14.100 --> 01:14:19.020
The way you rationalised this was, there was a rather terrible Godzilla film in 1998 made in America.

1147
01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:20.760
Just the one that...

1148
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:21.479
Matthew Broderick.

1149
01:14:21.539 --> 01:14:22.560
With Matthew Broderick.

1150
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:26.579
Sarah, Jessica Parker, play the eponymous.

1151
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:27.479
Yes, she did.

1152
01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:28.560
Yeah, she was Godzilla.

1153
01:14:28.619 --> 01:14:32.880
But the thing was, was they are married in what is known as real life in Hollywood.

1154
01:14:32.939 --> 01:14:49.859
That film is widely regarded by Godzilla fans as pretty terrible as in, as in, you know, worse than a lot of Doctor Who fans consider the Paul McGann movie or even these movies and he was just trying to say, but he is the doctor.

1155
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:55.859
And I said, he's the doctor in the same way that the American Godzilla from 1998 is Godzilla.

1156
01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:57.779
And he said, oh, so he's Dino.

1157
01:14:57.840 --> 01:14:59.100
I'm like what?

1158
01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:01.619
And he said, well, we call that Godzilla Gino.

1159
01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:03.840
So he's Dino.

1160
01:15:03.899 --> 01:15:06.300
No, no, no.

1161
01:15:06.420 --> 01:15:07.500
I know this one.

1162
01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:09.720
Doctor in name only.

1163
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:15.060
Because that Godzilla, that terrible Godzilla from 1998 is Godzilla in Nemo.

1164
01:15:15.060 --> 01:15:18.720
So he's Dino. and that's how I think of him now as well.

1165
01:15:18.779 --> 01:15:21.420
So I don't refer to the Cushing doctor anymore when I'm talking to Rod.

1166
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:24.180
I say, oh yeah, it's the Dino movies and he knows exactly what I'm talking about.

1167
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:25.680
I think you should call them Duino.

1168
01:15:25.739 --> 01:15:26.939
Doctor Who.

1169
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:29.100
Otherwise it becomes a rat-pack film.

1170
01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:30.119
Exactly.

1171
01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:35.399
What's your final word on the film's name?

1172
01:15:35.460 --> 01:15:39.180
Oh, you know, they passed an agreeable amount of time.

1173
01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:45.539
I did take 2 sittings to watch Dalek's Invasion Earth 2150 AD. I will watch them again.

1174
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:46.439
Do you know what I mean?

1175
01:15:46.500 --> 01:15:48.659
But it is, I think I've said what I want to say.

1176
01:15:48.720 --> 01:16:16.319
I think the thing that I like about the, um, the transmitted versions with all their sort of slithers and, and, you know, sort of ludicrous unmotivated trips across abysses and stuff, um, is that they are trying to do something new and different, that they aren't particularly family friendly, that they're a little bit rougher and a little bit stranger.

1177
01:16:16.380 --> 01:16:30.659
So, you know, these versions which look fantastic, you know, um, and move at a sort of reasonable pace, still not as fun as the sort of creaky old TV show that I love, I guess.

1178
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:52.079
Now, we've only got one recommendation for this month because, of course, there's less about these films than there is about anything else, but I'm actually recommending the Doctor Who fanual, which was published earlier this year, uh, through Soft Centre Limited, and uh, the uh, fanual.

1179
01:16:52.140 --> 01:16:53.399
I like the art lines.

1180
01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:55.979
Fannual Broadcasting Corporation.

1181
01:16:56.039 --> 01:17:03.420
And what this is, this is a world distributors style annual for the Doctor Who films.

1182
01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:13.619
And so it's got the sort of traditional stories and comic strips that you will find in your other Doctor Who annuals.

1183
01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:18.779
It's been produced in hardback and softback, hard centre and soft centre.

1184
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:21.180
And it is available to order online.

1185
01:17:21.239 --> 01:17:22.859
We'll put up the links on the website.

1186
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:27.359
But it's just, it looks like it was produced in 1966.

1187
01:17:27.539 --> 01:17:29.460
There's a variety of stories.

1188
01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:32.939
The artwork style varies from story to story.

1189
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:37.739
I actually suspect Peter Capaldi was responsible for some of the fan art in it.

1190
01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:44.699
I think one of my favourite, a favourite pieces of art, and I'm going to show this off, is Barbara here in Day of the Automatons.

1191
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:55.500
And unfortunately, we won't share the image online because we don't have the artist's permission, but I do heartily recommend you buy this book.

1192
01:17:55.560 --> 01:18:09.600
The other nice thing is it pretty much fits in between the 2 films. some stories set after the last film, but that means it also covers where Barbara and Ian went and how Louise came in and what have you.

1193
01:18:09.659 --> 01:18:13.380
And it's just the most glorious book.

1194
01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:16.260
It is a beautiful piece of...

1195
01:18:16.319 --> 01:18:28.500
The same people did the wonderful book of Doctor Who, 1965, which we'd previously spoken about. and they are currently preparing the unit manual in the same style.

1196
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.560
So, and some...

1197
01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:32.699
Corporal B in it?

1198
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:34.680
Corporal Bell is allowed to be in it.

1199
01:18:34.800 --> 01:18:35.640
Fantastic.

1200
01:18:35.699 --> 01:18:47.640
I believe their stipulation was it can include the brig, Captain Yates, Sergeant Benton, Corporal Bell, Joe Grant, and Harry Sullivan, other characters who can be included.

1201
01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:49.260
Not Liz Sloan.

1202
01:18:49.319 --> 01:18:50.880
Not Liz, it's...

1203
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:58.020
It is set, I believe they've planned to set it at some point, any point between season 8 and season 10.

1204
01:18:58.020 --> 01:19:01.560
And yeah, they just decided to cut it off there.

1205
01:19:01.619 --> 01:19:04.020
But I suppose they could bring Liz in.

1206
01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:09.779
I may be wrong, but we'll include that link as well because I think it should be available for pre-order soon.

1207
01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:15.420
But yeah, that's our recommendation, the Doctor Who fanual. include the links for that.

1208
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.439
How exciting.

1209
01:19:16.500 --> 01:19:23.819
And there is a tiny segue, and if you're wondering further references of this film in popular culture.

1210
01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:37.020
I believe you can't go wrong or can't go further than listening to the 1st episode of Round the Horn, which subtly references the introduction of Ian in this scene with Doctor Who.

1211
01:19:37.079 --> 01:19:50.880
When Julian sits with Kenneth Horn and says, you might have seen me on the telly where I'm alone in a room with a beautiful girl and we put out the lights and test chocolates. to see which of the yard and which of the soft centres.

1212
01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:55.140
And you know, you know that really this film could have been shot just like that.

1213
01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:55.800
Yes.

1214
01:19:55.859 --> 01:19:56.640
Absolutely.

1215
01:19:56.699 --> 01:20:00.239
That's probably the saddest thing about these films is there isn't a Kenneth Williams in it.

1216
01:20:01.020 --> 01:20:10.739
Right, on that note, I think it's time to say we will be back next week returning to regular programming with the 1st 3 stories of season 4 appropriate.

1217
01:20:10.800 --> 01:20:11.819
Now...

1218
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:12.960
Season 3 is over.

1219
01:20:13.020 --> 01:20:13.680
Yes.

1220
01:20:15.539 --> 01:20:21.479
That means it's also time to attribute our stories that each of us are going to spearhead.

1221
01:20:21.539 --> 01:20:23.100
So Nathan.

1222
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:27.960
You will be spearheading discussion on the Highlanders, the moonbase, and the faceless ones.

1223
01:20:28.020 --> 01:20:35.460
Richard, you will be spearheading discussion on the 10th planet, the underwater menace, and evil of the Daleks.

1224
01:20:35.699 --> 01:20:42.659
And I will be spearheading probably a very short discussion on the smugglers.

1225
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:49.439
In fact, it's over already. followed by discussions on Power of the Daleks and the macraterra.

1226
01:20:49.500 --> 01:20:51.180
So it's good night for me, gentlemen.

1227
01:20:51.239 --> 01:20:52.500
Do you have anything further to say?

1228
01:20:52.619 --> 01:20:54.960
Night from both of them as well.

1229
01:20:55.020 --> 01:20:56.340
No, good night from me too.

1230
01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:57.239
Good night.

1231
01:21:04.739 --> 01:21:10.079
You've been listening to Flight Your Entirety with Brendan Jones, Nathan Botany, and Richard Stone.

1232
01:21:10.140 --> 01:21:14.939
Episode 10, Jill Curzon inspired wallpaper, was recorded on Sunday, October 5th.

1233
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.399
The next episode will be released on Sunday the 19th.

1234
01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:24.539
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight your entirety on Facebook and iTunes or FTE podcast on Twitter.

1235
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:26.220
Where so thrilling, you must be there.

1236
01:21:33.180 --> 01:21:35.279
The TV version.

1237
01:21:35.340 --> 01:21:36.479
Barbara sort of gets.

1238
01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:41.579
We pause now, dear listener, to share a picture of Helen Shapiro.

1239
01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:45.359
Which we were sharing this with you.

1240
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:49.739
We feel that she's something of her inspiration.

1241
01:21:49.739 --> 01:21:52.439
Something of a Priscillaizing influence on this whole podcast, yeah.

1242
01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:54.600
Barbara does get a few sort of key.