WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:04:47

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast who would like to fly away from

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trouble, as would a politician's expense account.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and we're going in for a spot of light, green zone

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blowflies and torture, in vengeance on Tharos.

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So this is a story that critiques us for watching it, isn't it?

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And we've had this before.

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Do you remember Carnival of Monsters, where Katie Manning suggests

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that we must be terrible people to want to tune in and watch her

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being chased by monsters.

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Here the same thing happens.

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And there's something a little bit brilliant about giving us a

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substitute audience to identify with.

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I want to leap in and say, I think this story is terribly

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overrated, but I do think that one of the best things about it is

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Arak and Etta.

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Yes, played by the wonderful Stephen Yardley, previously seen in

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Genesis of the Daleks as the Muto, who helps Sarah.

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Oh my goodness, it's Severance.

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Yeah, it's Sever.

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He's also the XXY man from the series of the same name.

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He was in Day of the Triffords.

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He's great actor.

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Sheila Reed, of course, classic actress, most familiar to Doctor

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Who fans as Clara's Gran.

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I love the fact that they're the goggle box.

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Of Doctor Who.

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They are just a joy, Nathan.

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They are just a joy to watch.

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And the fact that they recorded all their scenes at the end of the

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recording blog.

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So they actually pumped the images through the television.

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So they were seeing what the other actors are doing for the 1st

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time and reacting to that. makes it even more glorious.

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And the whole framing of that within the story works wonderful.

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And my favourite moment is Cliffhanger to episode one where

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Colin's dying of thirst, and both of them are thirsty, like they

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vote.

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I particularly love when he says, I'm going to go to bed and tells

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her to vote for him and she threatens to dob him in because it's a

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homesian kind of world building move.

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I'm going to be critical of some of Philip Martin's writing

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choices in this.

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I don't think this is an overrated story.

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I do think this is one of the best quality stories of the era.

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I would agree with that.

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Yeah, but it's terrible.

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But I think something Philip Martin does masterfully here, we do

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have Martin Jarvis occasionally telling us what this culture is

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like, but we have Eric and Etta actually showing us in their

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interactions with each other.

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And because we're discussing them, let's jump to the last scene

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right now where they realise they're free and they don't know what

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to do with themselves with nothing on the television.

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It's weird because it's hopeful and it's funny and it's sad all at

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the same time that they don't know what to do.

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And I think ending a Doctor Who episode on a screen full of static

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is very daring at this type in history.

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No, I love the ending.

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I love this.

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The previous time I watched this, I wasn't that in love with it.

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But this time watching it in order, I actually liked it even

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more.

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My biggest criticism, besides the crap power couple, which we'll

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come to talk about, for me, is the fact the doctor and pairing are

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trapped in the TARDIS for too long. 25 minutes.

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That's right.

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And of course, Eric Seywood instructs his writers, well, what do

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we do?

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Well, we have to then have a bitch scene between them.

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I actually suspect that that's Eric Saywood writing that scene.

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Am I right?

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Is there no way of knowing?

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But it's a really nasty thing.

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The one thing that I do like is Perry saying that he keeps burning

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the dinner and all of that sort of thing, and that's more of that

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Collins doctor's incompetence at things and getting things wrong

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and being rather silly and a bit loveable.

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But I wish we'd kind of seen that rather than just having these

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giant wodges of unconvincing dialogue.

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I do feel for them in that they have to act through this.

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The previous time I watched it, I watched it out of order and I

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really detested that scene.

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This time because of what's gone on in the twin dilemma and their

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bumpy relationship.

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I got to the point where it was like, okay, enough now.

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Do I need to see anymore?

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But then it stopped.

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Whereas the previous time, right from the beginning, I was just

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going, oh, please.

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So, Depending on what mood I'm in, I either go, well, I can live

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with it or, we've then got the wonderful plot device, that the

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TARDIS is running out of this special ore, which can only be found

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on one planet, which you've never heard of before.

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Last week, didn't we have a special mineral that blew up the cyber

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control?

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And 2 weeks before that.

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Well, sorry, not 2 weeks, but 2 stories before that, we had

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Spectrox, the most valuable substance in the universe.

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One of the most valuable substances in the universe.

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But this one you see had a trademark.

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Oh, okay.

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So my biggest criticism for the story is that Tartist stuff.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And Colin, why does Colin?

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He just sort of becomes defeated and slumps into a chair and

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stuff.

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And it is, Saywood doesn't want us to have a hero.

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And he keeps keeping the doctor out of stories.

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I don't know who's responsible for the structure here, and I'll

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talk more about it later when we talk about the story's

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resolution.

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But he keeps wanting to undermine Collin's doctor all the time.

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And so have him sort of just petulantly slump in a chair and give

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up and talk about waiting for death.

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Like, that's in no way entertaining, and it damages the character

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and the character keeps being damaged, and I don't think it's

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Colin's fault.

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It's something I've criticised a much later story for and that is

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it's an effort to make the companion look intelligent and

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resourceful.

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But rather than just allowing Perry to be intelligent and

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resourceful, it has to come because the doctor's being stupid.

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Yeah.

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But at the same time, watching these stories in order, something

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I'm picking up on is, The 6 doctors lack of self-esteem.

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And if you consider the character as being someone who actually

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lacks self-esteem, the tantrums and the despondency, but also the

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mania, start to make a little more sense.

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And you know what?

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Hand on my heart, I am sure I am reading something that isn't

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there because Colin has never discussed that.

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And Colin is very happy to discuss his character and his approach

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to the character.

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But if you look at his character as someone who is actually not

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very sure of themselves, suddenly the patchwork costume makes a

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lot of sense.

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He's saying, look at me, look at me, look at me, don't look at me

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look at me, look at me, don't look at me.

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And I do think at least Nicola kind of rises to the fact that, you

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know, she brings in the TARDIS manual and throws it at him and

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tells him to stop sighing like a steam engine and feeling sorry

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for yourself.

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And then Perry's still taking on the role here of his nurse and

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his carer, you know.

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I'm not saying it's perfect, but I am saying there is some kind of

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value there.

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In terms of the structure of the story, This is, I was referring

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to last week, an example of where when you break them up into 25

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minutes, it's really terrible because the cliffhanger to episode

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one of this story is them arriving on Varos, the guard shooting at

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the TARDIS, it's actually, I wonder who's coming towards us.

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That's actually...

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Oh yes, you're right. right.

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The better clip hangout would have been if he'd shot at the

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TARDIS.

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And then it had gone to Cliffhanger.

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Yeah.

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But of course, it's one of these things where who's ever viewing

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the tapes just goes, okay, there it is.

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It doesn't bother to look 25 seconds either side. see this

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better.

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The episode 31 is even worse because it's during the

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transmogrification scene, right?

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And after they've shot the machine, they've run up to where

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they're transmogrified and they think it hasn't worked.

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And you think that's the perfect cliffhanger.

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You know, you cut to Perry and Areta, and they're still in their

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beast forms, if you like.

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The actual cliffhanger is when it has worked and they pick them up

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off the thing.

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And Nicola has that beautiful line where she says, I thought I

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could fly.

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You know, she delivers it in such a delirious way.

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It' lovely.

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The doctor responds, walking all is all that's required for now.

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What the hell is that?

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That is the worst cliffhanger in the history of the series.

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I think that I think that one is because they just walk off the

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screen, don't they?

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Yeah, they just start to walk off.

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That might be that might be the worst one of these fake

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cliffhangers of the season.

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But I still hadn't tweaked.

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As a kid, I still hadn't tweaked that the structure was any

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different because in the middle, you've got that episode 2

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Cliffhanger, which is cut it now, right?

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Which is just spectacular.

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It's genius.

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Yeah, genius.

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And so you get these cliffhangers that are the actual

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cliffhangers.

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And you get one that's a bit dodgy and one that's probably crap.

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But I just didn't pick up.

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So can we talk about that episode too, Cliffhanger, because it's

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the doctor in peril, which is what we expect from a cliffhanger.

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But instead of seeing it directly, we see it on television.

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We get the governor doing the director's job and saying, cut it

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now.

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We get a laugh from seal that bleeds over the closing credits, and

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the show dutifully obeys what the governor's direction is and cuts

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as the governor directs.

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And so it is that we're watching people watching television with

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the doctor in it.

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Just as Eric and Etta are watching the doctor on television as

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well while we're watching them.

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And the fact that in this story, and this story, I think, suffers

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from the problem that it's said in an artificial environment, the

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punishment dome, where all of the peril is kind of engineered and

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things.

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So it's a little bit too easy to come up with these sort of

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various different kinds of peril.

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And the peril is not generally very interesting or well realised.

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So sometimes it's a green light that makes you smile and walk off

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into the distance.

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Sometimes it's too green lights that aren't all that perilous

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after all.

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Sometimes it's like, I like the house fly.

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I think it looks really fabulous.

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But all of those artificial video game perils that you just have

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to overcome one after another.

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But you do have to consider that element is of its time, and I'm

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glad you brought up video games.

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It's partially cashing in on that.

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It's also cashing in on the rise of horror movies on video and the

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fact that rating systems had yet to catch up with the home video

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market.

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Getting back to something you said about the green lights, 2 of

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them.

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I think that's so brilliant because so often in Doctor Who, we've

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had alien creatures just expressed by lights, most recently, the

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gum, you know, who starts off as 2 lights.

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It subverts because we're expecting it to be this monster and then

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older viewers are probably like, yeah, it's going to be a crap

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monster.

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And the doctor goes, no, it really is just 2 lights on a stick.

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But you see what it's saying about the show.

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Do you know what I mean?

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If Harry and Etta are essentially watching Doctor Who of this

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period, what they're tuning in for is just a series of kind of

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unmotivated threats that the doctor defeats or initially succumbs

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to and then maybe defeats.

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And increasingly those threats are nasty, and Arak and Etta are

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you know, they're quite sweet, but they're also pretty

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bluntthirsty as well.

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You know, they're discussing scenes where people are blinded

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executions, all of that sort of thing.

250
00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.539
And so this is, I think, a fairly savage attack, not only on us as

251
00:12:03.539 --> 00:12:08.159
viewers for still watching this crap, but also on the show itself

252
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.899
and not just this era, but, you know, the show is a show about

253
00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:17.340
various things assailing the doctor, people being killed

254
00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:20.759
bloodthirsty things, and here we all are enjoying it, like Eric

255
00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:21.539
and Etar.

256
00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:27.000
I sometimes wonder if it is a satire on a bloodthirsty audience, or

257
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:32.340
if it's a satire on the kind of people who now say that violent

258
00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:33.659
video games beget violence.

259
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:38.100
Because as a gamer, I am constantly exposed to that idea.

260
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:43.980
I have a friend who is a primary school teacher, who gotten a

261
00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:45.360
discussion with me about that once.

262
00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:46.679
He's like, you're an ex-teacher.

263
00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:49.679
How can you enjoy playing video games when they cause this

264
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.379
violence and I see it in my students?

265
00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:54.720
And I'm kind of like, well, actually, no, there's lots of studies

266
00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.080
that say that just watching violence does not itself make you

267
00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:58.860
violent.

268
00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:03.779
I actually worry about ragtime music causing violence.

269
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.519
Not to mention reefer madness.

270
00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:06.419
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

271
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:06.840
Yeah.

272
00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:08.279
Well, this is not very deep.

273
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.899
I just sit there and if violence happens.

274
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:14.940
Well, you know how bloodthirsty I was.

275
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:19.919
So I'm one of these people that just says, yes, give me more of it

276
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.919
give me more of it, but to be quite honest, you know, at the time

277
00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:25.379
I think there's a lot of Hollywood movies around this time that

278
00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:30.000
it's all now guns and violence and this is what we are, you know

279
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.340
maybe I'm desensitised to it. don't know.

280
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.460
I don't know if I really thought about it on that level.

281
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.639
And I think that's the best kind of commentary, the commentary

282
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.179
that doesn't exactly tell you what to think, but just the

283
00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:43.440
commentary that makes you think.

284
00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:48.480
I think it is a strangely revealing kind of picture of the show.

285
00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:53.340
I think if nothing else, it is asking the audience to consider

286
00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:54.179
what they watch.

287
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:55.379
Yeah.

288
00:13:55.440 --> 00:14:00.360
And, um, in a way, one of its antecedents is Nigel Neil's the year

289
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:01.559
of the sex Olympics.

290
00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:05.460
This is from the same writer as Quator Mass. et cetera.

291
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:10.799
And the concept of it was a world where reality TV has become the

292
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:11.159
norm.

293
00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:14.279
I mean, God, awful people who work in reality television.

294
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:18.960
And this show has started and it's about a young couple with a

295
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:23.100
baby and they're living in this desolate environment and the idea

296
00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:24.720
is they're going back to basics.

297
00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:27.480
They don't have their technology and everyone at home is watching

298
00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:28.980
them live, et cetera, et cetera.

299
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:33.840
And then a psychopath breaks into the studio and rather than stop

300
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:34.799
the psychopath.

301
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:36.480
Like, well, let's find out what happens next.

302
00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:41.700
So the weird thing is, I believe in the context of the show, the

303
00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:43.200
year of the sex Olympics.

304
00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:46.440
The Sex Olympics is another show, a competing show that they're

305
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.620
referring to that they never show on screen because this is 1968

306
00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:52.860
but everyone else is watching this survivalist show and wondering

307
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:56.639
if these this young couple in this snowbound wasteland and their

308
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.639
young baby is going to survive being in the same environment as a

309
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:01.379
psychopath and they don't know it's there.

310
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:09.840
But this idea of presenting a TV show or film, we're watching

311
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:10.980
other people watching it.

312
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.340
It's something that's never really gone away since then.

313
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.139
You know, we've had the Truman show.

314
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:21.179
We've had the Matrix, which was about beings watching humans as

315
00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:21.899
entertainment.

316
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.700
Doctor Who's done it again.

317
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:28.200
In, in perhaps my favourite story over Bad Wolf, the Parting of

318
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:32.159
the Ways, which I just think is wonderful and also creates a disc

319
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:36.659
topic future society by critiquing the things that they watch on

320
00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:37.379
television.

321
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.460
And it kind of stretches the absolute boundaries of realism by

322
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:45.240
having those things be exactly what we were watching on television

323
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:46.559
in 2005.

324
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.960
But those things are terribly funny.

325
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:55.019
I think that's part of the reason I will always like the story and

326
00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:56.399
I will always rate it highly.

327
00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:01.799
It may not be perfect in this execution, and I certainly think

328
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.799
there are pacing issues as we've previously discussed.

329
00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:14.399
But it, It is an attempt to do something really quite new and

330
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:16.259
interesting and of the time.

331
00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.519
And something we discussed in our Peter Davidson retrospective a

332
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:25.679
few weeks ago is quite often they're just doing Doctor Who stories

333
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.980
because we make Doctor Who stories and that's what we do and it's

334
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:30.779
not really about social commentary.

335
00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:35.220
You were saying earlier when we were recording, Todd, that you

336
00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:36.960
like, I think you really like this story.

337
00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:39.059
I quite enjoy it and Nathan thinks it's terrible.

338
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.279
Well, I think it's got some things going for it.

339
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:44.940
But I think it has really serious problems that I think often go

340
00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:45.720
unacknowledged.

341
00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:48.720
I mean, I think this is a fairly highly regarded Colin Baker

342
00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:49.980
story.

343
00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:52.320
And I think there must be quite a few people for whom this is

344
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.879
their favourite story.

345
00:16:53.940 --> 00:17:00.240
Uh, just get your shot glasses ready, but Sandra thinks that this

346
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:05.819
is perhaps the only Colin Baker story that might be accorded the

347
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:06.779
status of a classic.

348
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:13.559
But I just think it has some flaws in it that really, really spoil

349
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:13.859
that.

350
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:20.700
And I want to start by referring to John Darr and Areta.

351
00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:22.440
Oh, dear God.

352
00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:23.759
Jason Connery.

353
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:25.799
And I don't even know her name.

354
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:26.940
I don't even want to know her name.

355
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:30.960
I don't think does she, she does eventually get a name in episode

356
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:31.319
two.

357
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.359
No, no, no, her acting.

358
00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.440
Yeah, the actor, but Areta is just ancient Greek for virtue, I

359
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:37.740
think.

360
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:39.299
And they're both blonde, aren't they?

361
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:40.200
So they're heroes.

362
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.660
She is Geraldine Alexander.

363
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:48.059
I think the thing with them is that they're so cardboard and

364
00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:48.539
wooden.

365
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.240
But listeners, I was just going to say that.

366
00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:55.380
I quite like the fact that they're so earnest beyond all.

367
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.859
Like, you know, they both have some speeches somewhere in one of

368
00:17:58.859 --> 00:17:59.519
their rooms.

369
00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:02.460
She in particular has this thing, which you could be reading from

370
00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:03.720
the telephone directory.

371
00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:07.799
You know, it's a really badly written speech and it's really

372
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.000
poorly delivered.

373
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:11.759
And John Darr gets to do speeches as well.

374
00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:14.819
And I think the show is making fun of them.

375
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.480
I mean, they're both poor performances, and I know that Jason

376
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.420
Connery has gone on to do other things, and I don't think he's

377
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:24.599
necessarily a terrible actor, but he is terrible in this.

378
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:29.519
But the moment where he comes upon the cannibals in nappies, who

379
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.000
really, really deserve to be mentioned to anyone who calls this

380
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.539
story a classic, the moment he comes up to the cannibals in

381
00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:40.559
nappies and says, fellow prisoners, and then Colin shuts him down

382
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.779
and tells him it's no time for political speeches.

383
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.839
I think that that's the moment where it becomes clear that they're

384
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:46.859
being satirised.

385
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:50.700
Is it too late to change the name of the podcast for cannibals in

386
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:51.119
now?

387
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:53.220
I just, okay.

388
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.599
So Ron Jones directed this.

389
00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:57.900
That is one of the most bizarre choices in the history of Doctor

390
00:18:57.900 --> 00:18:58.319
Who.

391
00:18:58.380 --> 00:18:59.700
Cannibals and nappies.

392
00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:04.440
And we do see them before that because Arak and Etta are watching

393
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.599
them punch one another on television.

394
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:10.619
And when one of them is killed, the other one drags him back to

395
00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:13.440
his lair to eat, presumably later.

396
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:16.440
Which I just think's hilarious. actually sit there and I just

397
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:17.940
laugh at it. just laugh at it.

398
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.380
What I find so odd about the cannibals in nappies is, I suppose

399
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:24.000
it's about subverting expectation.

400
00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:28.619
You know, you might expect them to be physically fit if they're

401
00:19:28.619 --> 00:19:32.700
constantly killing people and eating them, but they're these 2 mid

402
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:35.400
50s building bank managers from Worthing. you know?

403
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:36.119
They're terrible.

404
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:37.319
It's an old choice.

405
00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:43.200
I like my cannibals in bright colours and lovely cardigans, I have

406
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:43.440
to say.

407
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:47.039
Well, I think we'll get that in a couple of years time.

408
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:51.420
I actually think Jason Carey gets better. through this when he's

409
00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:53.279
not paired with her of the perm.

410
00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:57.299
Like that perm that she has makes her look at least 10 years older

411
00:19:57.299 --> 00:19:58.019
than him.

412
00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:59.099
I'm just going to say.

413
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:00.180
But it's very 80s though.

414
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.039
That's the thing. very period.

415
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:06.299
Besides those 2 performances, which I think are great.

416
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.779
I think Rondell and Maldak are both terrible as well.

417
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.519
I actually think they're quite good.

418
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.819
Rondo's killed quite quickly, which is a relief.

419
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.720
No, I quite like Owen Teal as Maldak because, you know, especially

420
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.599
when the governor is appealing to him to let Perry go.

421
00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:24.779
There is some interiority there and he is thinking it over.

422
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:28.440
And thankfully, Owen Teal, who played him, has gone on to have a

423
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.740
very long career and he's appeared in torchwood, but we won't hold

424
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:32.400
that against him.

425
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:34.200
Actually, he's quite good in torture.

426
00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:34.980
He's in countryside.

427
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:35.819
Oh really?

428
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:40.019
He's the one who at the end when Gwen asks him why he's done what

429
00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:40.559
he's done.

430
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:42.900
He just says to her, because I enjoy it.

431
00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:47.339
And he's a, he's played a villain in a few things and he's, oh

432
00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:49.319
actually, Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones.

433
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.819
He is Sir Alastair Thorne.

434
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:55.019
John Snow's antagonist in the Knights Watch, and he is brilliant

435
00:20:55.019 --> 00:20:58.619
in it, because it is sometimes difficult for people to watch Game

436
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:04.859
of Thrones, I won't spoil too much his role in season. 5 and 6, but

437
00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:09.180
he takes an action, which, as a viewer who likes John Snow as

438
00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:12.180
you're meant to, you immediately are opposed to him in that

439
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:12.599
action.

440
00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:15.720
But when he explains his motivation for it.

441
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:20.220
An objective person will have to look at that and say, look

442
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.680
working with what you believe in the facts you have.

443
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:26.759
You can understand his action, and Owen T will plays out really

444
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:26.940
well.

445
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.440
So he's become a very experienced actor.

446
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:31.859
In Jason Connery's defence, I believe this was his 1st

447
00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:32.400
television.

448
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:32.940
Right.

449
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:36.180
And it wasn't long after this that he started doing his Robin Hood

450
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.980
series in which he is much better.

451
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:38.819
Right, okay.

452
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:42.839
And he plays Ian Fleming, I think, in something later in a film or

453
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:43.140
something.

454
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:43.920
Is that a thing?

455
00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:45.720
wouldn't be at all surprised.

456
00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:46.920
Look, I think he's quite pretty.

457
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:50.819
And although he's only got one. 5 abs on each side, visible above

458
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.259
those high waisted pants.

459
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:58.380
I think it's a terrible waste. is I'm just ignored it. all week.

460
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:00.180
I'm sorry.

461
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.119
Do carry on, Todd, and I'm sorry, dear listener.

462
00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.900
Like, we'll point it out the performances in Stellar, but neither

463
00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:10.859
is it like one that I, you know, I've ranted about other people

464
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:13.799
how empathetic they've been recently in the twin dilemma.

465
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.000
Like it's nowhere near that.

466
00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:17.940
But I think there's, I think that's because there's other people

467
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.039
around that I really like.

468
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.839
I think Martin Jarvis is the governor.

469
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:25.319
His performance is amazing.

470
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:29.279
Yes. and his relationship with Perry and what Nicola has to do in

471
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.420
those scenes and...

472
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.700
Seal.

473
00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:33.359
Yeah.

474
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.359
Abil Shabin is just amazing.

475
00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:36.960
I think.

476
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:39.599
So can we discuss each of them in turn?

477
00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:44.579
I really think Martin Jarvis lifts this. and he is probably going

478
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:48.059
to be my favourite guest actor of the Colin Baker period.

479
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:49.380
I think he's just terrific.

480
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.579
He was one hell of a great monoptera all those years ago.

481
00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:56.759
Butler, an Invasion of the Dinosaurs.

482
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:58.619
He's really, really good here.

483
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.319
And people talk about the nobility of his character.

484
00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:03.720
But in fact, he's a really horrible person.

485
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:09.480
And he is kind of Tony Blair, who's, you know, going to rescue us

486
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:13.680
from decades of Tory government because he's utterly lacking in

487
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.339
principle.

488
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:20.400
He is prepared to organise executions in order to take the heat

489
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.660
off himself.

490
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:26.640
He's completely happy to sell torture videos to other planets.

491
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.900
And yet when Seal appears to be enjoying the videos, he's

492
00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:31.259
watching.

493
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:35.640
He has the gall to kind of sneer at seal.

494
00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:39.960
And one of the things that I maybe like about this story is in

495
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:44.160
fact that Varos is left at his mercy at the end of it, and I have

496
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.539
no confidence that the doctor has solved that planet's problems.

497
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.559
See, I think Martin Jarvis's governor character goes on a little

498
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:57.299
bit of a journey because there is the seed in his mind.

499
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:01.200
At the beginning of the story that what is happening on Baros is

500
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:01.440
wrong.

501
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:05.940
Like when it backs suggests the torture method and execution

502
00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.819
method for John Darr to neutralise the cue switch and build up the

503
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:09.240
laser.

504
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:15.599
The governor is visibly disgusted by that idea and the chief, who's

505
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.380
played rather wonderfully by Forbes Collins, who says, the chief

506
00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:19.680
is great.

507
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:21.660
And who's the other guy with the Quillum?

508
00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:22.980
Quillum, Nicholas Chagrin.

509
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.720
I think he I think he's very good too.

510
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:28.319
I actually think that he is one of the worst things about this

511
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:28.619
story.

512
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:34.740
But when the chief objects to the execution, it's simply because

513
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:35.759
oh, it'll be too quick.

514
00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:36.359
Too quick.

515
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:37.980
No, no one will notice.

516
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:42.000
Later on, when the governor has been chatting to Perry, it shared

517
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.339
a little joke with her about Sill's translation unit.

518
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.440
Like, don't tell him this translator doesn't work as my only

519
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:47.339
source of amusement.

520
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.160
And Perry begins to see this could be a sympathetic person.

521
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:55.079
And then he says, we'll use the girl to get to the doctor and she

522
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.660
says, I thought you were better than these other brutes.

523
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.759
He is visibly hurt by that.

524
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:04.200
And you said earlier, Nathan, that perhaps the doctor doesn't have

525
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:05.460
much of an impact in this story.

526
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.000
Perhaps he doesn't, but I believe that the governor's changing

527
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.359
character is because for the 1st time in his life, he's met

528
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:17.759
someone who cares for others more than herself and her own self

529
00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:17.759
preservation.

530
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.180
And I think that slowly changes him over the course of the 2nd

531
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:21.480
episode.

532
00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:25.619
I would hope that that's intentional, that that's really visible

533
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:29.400
because one of the glaring problems with this story, is that it

534
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:33.420
seems to me that if the doctor and Perry had gone somewhere else

535
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:37.319
that things would have played out pretty much the same as they

536
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:37.500
did.

537
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.400
The only reason that the governor is able to kind of change the

538
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:46.980
political system and throw off their oppressors, like the Galatron

539
00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:49.380
mining corporation has been ripping them off and oppressing them

540
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:51.420
and buying their stuff cheaply.

541
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:56.819
In fact, the only reason that that situation changes is, firstly

542
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:59.519
the governor persuades Maldak to let him escape.

543
00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:03.359
And then secondly, a series of messages appear on the screen

544
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.859
saying that by chance we found another source of Zeiton 7 on

545
00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:14.700
biosculptor, and now you just have to pay the people of Varos as

546
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:15.960
much money as they ask.

547
00:26:16.019 --> 00:26:19.920
So, in fact, the doctor has absolutely nothing to do with that, and

548
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.740
the plot is completely resolved by a few messages from the

549
00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:25.559
Galatron mining corporation appearing on the screen.

550
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.279
And even when that happens, Martin Jarvis is so stupid that he

551
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:30.539
only increases.

552
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.440
He's seen that message and he increases the asking price from 7 to

553
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:34.559
20.

554
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:36.779
When it was like, pay any price.

555
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.619
I'd be going up to, you know, a 1000, 2000 a unit, you know.

556
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:45.000
So the doctor absolutely has no role in resolving anything that

557
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:45.660
happens here.

558
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:51.180
And that is a big problem under Eric, say, would generally, and I

559
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:52.980
think this is the worst example of it.

560
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.099
It's a shame because it would have been very simple to solve it by

561
00:26:56.099 --> 00:26:59.339
saying that the doctor sent a message to somewhere he knew had

562
00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:02.460
Ziton and said, hey, tell this planet you've got, tell this

563
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:04.859
corporation you've got it to take the heat off this planet.

564
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.339
You know, that would have been a simple way to fix that.

565
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.059
In fact, the big hero moment where he resolves things is where he

566
00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:17.339
instructs John Darner ranted to fling poisonous vines at Quillum

567
00:27:17.339 --> 00:27:17.940
and the chief.

568
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:18.960
Do you know what I mean?

569
00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:21.299
And and that's unpleasant.

570
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.339
That's not particularly heroic.

571
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.519
He doesn't actually do anything and he encourages them to kill

572
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:27.480
some people.

573
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:33.420
And I just think that, The show now has a big problem with the

574
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:34.500
doctor being a hero.

575
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.259
That Seward doesn't believe in heroes.

576
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:39.660
No one in this story is a good guy at all.

577
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:43.799
And now that's not even the doctor, you know, not even the doctor

578
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:45.059
gets to fix the problem.

579
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.220
And we saw it in season 21.

580
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.839
It's not purely a Colin Baker phenomenon, but it's increasingly

581
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.599
something that the show does and I think it's a, it's a bad

582
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:54.960
mistake.

583
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:00.000
It just becomes the doctor turns up somewhere and a whole bunch of

584
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.400
science fiction things happen and then he leaves.

585
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:03.359
Do you know what I mean?

586
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.660
It's no longer the doctor turns up somewhere, overthrows the

587
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:08.640
government in an evening and then he leaves.

588
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.000
I love those stories, you know, the show has no shape.

589
00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:15.660
There's no reason for us to be interested in what the doctor's

590
00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:15.960
doing.

591
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:20.220
And say it certainly doesn't think that because everything's about

592
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:23.519
these environments that he's created and the tertiary characters

593
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:24.900
that he's peopled them with.

594
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.299
Very insightful.

595
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:31.740
I think that's a really good take. on the core structure of Eric

596
00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:34.859
Saywood's Time as script editor.

597
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.579
One of the things is that the doctor's constantly going on a

598
00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:39.900
holiday, right?

599
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:40.619
Yeah, yeah.

600
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:43.380
And I can see where you're coming from with that.

601
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.859
I do think that without them arriving, then John Dar wouldn't have

602
00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:50.460
got away and a series of events wouldn't have occurred to put the

603
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:54.240
governor in the position for change to happen, right?

604
00:28:54.299 --> 00:29:02.220
So even though their impact on what's going on is quite minimal.

605
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.920
Yeah, I mean, you need to structure the story around the doctor

606
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:05.819
solving a problem.

607
00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:07.680
That doesn't worry me.

608
00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:08.220
Yeah.

609
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:08.700
Okay?

610
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:10.319
listeners, it doesn't worry me.

611
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:13.920
I like the fact that they're there involved with these trials.

612
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:18.779
It's been commented on, and things happen, and yeah, maybe they

613
00:29:18.779 --> 00:29:23.279
haven't had the impact, but I enjoy, I enjoy so many of the

614
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:23.759
characters.

615
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:28.319
I enjoy Colin's performance in this once they get to the, or even

616
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:29.400
in the Tartar scene.

617
00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:33.000
I still think, you know, he's doing a good job with situation

618
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:34.140
that's not great.

619
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.059
Two of my favourite sequences or 3 of them.

620
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.339
One is the joke of Perrier at the end.

621
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.099
I love that, which I didn't get as a kid, and I just think it's

622
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:41.339
lovely.

623
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:42.839
And there's a warmth there with the characters.

624
00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:45.000
Once they have their bitch scene, oh, this is the thing.

625
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.279
Once they have their bit of tetar tent over and done with in

626
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:47.759
episode one.

627
00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:50.519
You know, when they both fling their heads around the, what is

628
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:50.640
it?

629
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:54.299
Around the wall, going, hi, you know, there's more room.

630
00:29:54.299 --> 00:29:55.140
Yeah, that's really cute.

631
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:57.900
There's more warmth and throughout, you know, he is concerned

632
00:29:57.900 --> 00:29:58.440
about Perry.

633
00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:01.500
I think one of the biggest criticisms of the era is his lack of

634
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:03.240
concern for her and their relationship.

635
00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:06.420
But I again think in this, that it's generally quite good.

636
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.420
I mean, and even in the last story, it is quite good.

637
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.539
I think I said about the twin dilemma that it actually leads up to

638
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:15.480
a climax where we see the doctor who has been really horrible

639
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:17.519
express concern for Perry.

640
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:18.359
Do you know what I mean?

641
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:20.759
I think that that's something that they try to turn around quite

642
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:21.059
quickly.

643
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.220
So they're 2 of my favourite moments.

644
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.819
The other one I really love, and you probably will disagree with

645
00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:28.980
me is the hanging scene.

646
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.920
And I really like Colin's performance leading up to it.

647
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.180
I think it's wonderful.

648
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.839
And I always forget about it, like I'm going, why is a doctor

649
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.240
acting like, it's just slightly, there's something just slightly

650
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:41.220
not right, and he's twigged as to what's going on.

651
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.500
Again, Collins come in.

652
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.640
He's got the energy of a new doctor, you know, he knows what he

653
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:48.839
wants to do, right?

654
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:51.480
Even if the writing is not always where it needs to be.

655
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:55.980
And, you know, I say to any naysayers out there, you watch that

656
00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:56.279
scene.

657
00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:00.299
The bit where Martin Jarvis asks him, like, if he wants to make a

658
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.119
statement or have a last request or something, and he's not

659
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.480
listening, like, he's just pretending not to listen and then he

660
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.619
sort of suddenly reacts.

661
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:08.400
I think he's really good.

662
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:12.119
Again, I think he does give a sort of fairly unfortunate political

663
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:16.619
speech, which is poorly written, the poor quality of which is only

664
00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:19.619
kind of amplified by the theatricality of his performance.

665
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.319
But I think he's really doctor-ish in that scene.

666
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:27.059
And there's something like he does, he nails doctor-ish.

667
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:33.119
For me, he nails doctorish in a way that his predecessant didn't

668
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:33.539
do for me.

669
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.079
He didn't very often for me either, but he does sometimes, I

670
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:37.200
think.

671
00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:40.140
Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't, but I'm just saying in this context

672
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.859
having gone through 3 years or not doctor-ish.

673
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:46.200
I've latched onto this as a kid, right?

674
00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:51.299
And, and those doctrish moments throughout this season are there

675
00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:52.380
for me, right?

676
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:57.599
And the other flaws, writing character or whatever, don't have

677
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:58.380
much of an impact.

678
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.680
I mean, I quite like a lot of the dark humour and the sort of some

679
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.359
of the put downs and that sort of thing.

680
00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:03.839
That's me.

681
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:06.180
I actually quite like that in movies and that sort of thing.

682
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.180
And I know that a lot of fans don't really like that and it's not

683
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:09.480
for them.

684
00:32:09.539 --> 00:32:14.099
The whole thing with Colin being a bit more, Colin's doctor being

685
00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:15.960
a bit more unpredictable and a bit more violent.

686
00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:22.619
I think is a crystalisation of trying to address the problems with

687
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:25.740
the Davison characterisation and the gentleness of that.

688
00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:30.420
A scene I love so much in this story is when Perry and Aretta are

689
00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:34.619
under that transmogrification beam, and John Dar is...

690
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.859
I won't say beside himself because Jason Connery doesn't quite

691
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:40.559
convey that, but is very concerned and shouting.

692
00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:43.619
And the doctor's just having a nice conversation with Quillerman.

693
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.759
Oh, and how does this work?

694
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.519
And, oh, and what kind of laser are you using?

695
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.880
And then grabs a gun and points it at Quilum.

696
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.460
And Quilum's like, well, you need me to operate the machine and

697
00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:55.319
the doctor's like, oh, it's that machine, is it?

698
00:32:55.380 --> 00:32:56.759
and blows up the machine.

699
00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.700
I think that is a wonderfully doctor-ish thing to do.

700
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.539
I don't really have a problem with the doctor pointing a gun at

701
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:08.220
someone as a dramatic device and something that often happens in

702
00:33:08.220 --> 00:33:08.700
the 80s.

703
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.299
The doctor's pointed a gun at a few people, and it is used as a

704
00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:13.859
dramatic device to varying effect.

705
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.859
I think the best time it's been used is when the doctor then gives

706
00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:19.200
his gun to Commander Vorsak in Warriors of the Deep.

707
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:23.220
But I think this is a wonderful heroic moment on the doctor's part

708
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:27.000
in that it shows how different he is to his predecessor.

709
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.440
And also shows the lengths he's willing to go to to rescue Perry.

710
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:34.619
The thing with the vines, it is.

711
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:39.359
An uncomfortably violent moment from the doctor, but the other

712
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:44.400
thing is, the doctor has always stated he is averse to violence

713
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.420
but he has no problem with people performing violence on his

714
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:52.019
behalf, even if we were to look at the 2nd doctor who is arguably

715
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:53.579
the least violent doctor we've had.

716
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.359
Except for the time that he shoots all those ice Warriors.

717
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:59.099
Shoots all those nice warriors.

718
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.019
Rams are lawyers head into a desk, et cetera.

719
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:02.400
But that's the thing.

720
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:04.740
As soon as he's got Jamie, he's quite happy for Jamie to run

721
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:06.539
around clobbering people and stabbing people.

722
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:10.739
The 4th doctor says to Leila, stop stabbing people about 3 weeks

723
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:15.539
after he's punched a chauffeur unconscious in a gravel pit.

724
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.519
So the doctor has never been averse to violence.

725
00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:21.599
And in that scene with the vines, I think it's very important to

726
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:26.699
note that the doctor does not approach Quillum and the chief.

727
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:33.119
It's almost the whole Russell T. Davis 10th doctor thing of the

728
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:35.880
doctor has to walk up to the villain and say, you need to leave or

729
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:36.599
I'm going to do something.

730
00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:38.880
That's what's happening here.

731
00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:42.659
The doctor is in an area that they know have the poison vines.

732
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.940
How does he know the vines are poisonous?

733
00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:48.599
Yeah, I believe he identifies the scientific name of them when

734
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:49.380
they walk in.

735
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:50.940
He says, oh, it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

736
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.960
Even though the doctor orchestrates the trap, he is very clearly

737
00:34:56.219 --> 00:34:59.880
He's very clearly upset that he has to pull it.

738
00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:03.599
You know, he is very quiet and subdued afterwards and let's get

739
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:04.079
away from here.

740
00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:08.460
And there's the infamous acid bath scene, which, as Colin says, if

741
00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:12.300
you watch it, the doctor with the with the trolly bed between him

742
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:14.579
and the attendant, Colin is pulling.

743
00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:17.519
It really doesn't look like that.

744
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:19.199
And I did keep an eye out for it.

745
00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:20.699
It looks like he's trying to push the guy.

746
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:21.900
No, he doesn't.

747
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.260
He's actually trying to defend himself, and that's what I see

748
00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:27.420
every time as a kid, I saw that.

749
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.400
One of the things that's really annoyed me over the years is when

750
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.380
I came into fandom, there was this thing where it says the doctor

751
00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:33.119
pushes these people into the acid path.

752
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:34.619
Well, no, he gets up.

753
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:38.400
The 1st person is a fool and gets startled and falls in and then

754
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.559
his assistant just turns around and starts to go for the doctor

755
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:42.179
and the doctor's actually defending himself.

756
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.619
I see that every single time.

757
00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:46.860
And then the other person pulls the other guy in.

758
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.179
That is what happens, but I think I think that the fight scenes in

759
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:55.980
this story are ineptly directed just generally, and it's Ron Jones

760
00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:56.820
for God's sake.

761
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.780
He can't direct fights.

762
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.000
He can direct traffic, though, because there's those little

763
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:00.420
cards.

764
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.199
But it does look like the doctor's trying to push him in.

765
00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:08.519
And I think that there, it's a mistake to show the guy, with all

766
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:11.940
his skin dissolving off, coming up to pull the other guy in

767
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.760
because A, why would he do that and be like yuck?

768
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:17.159
Well, he's not trying to pull the other guy in.

769
00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:18.360
He's just trying to pull himself out.

770
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:19.440
You're desperate.

771
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:20.219
You're grasping.

772
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.920
I think the biggest problem with that scene is, do you mind if I

773
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:23.400
don't join you?

774
00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:27.539
That is cruel. and callous, and that is the complete opposite of

775
00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:30.719
the scene I just mentioned where the doctor is upset with what

776
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:32.820
he's had to do to Quillem and the chief.

777
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:35.639
He does a moment of little horrified acting where he thinks about

778
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:36.539
it for a second.

779
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.280
Yeah, but the thing is, it's not really horrified.

780
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:40.139
It's more, ooh, I'm not eating that.

781
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:44.400
You know, it's kind of mild irritation. disagree with you.

782
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:45.300
Okay, fair enough.

783
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:46.920
I think he downplays it.

784
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:48.179
And it's a dark moment.

785
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:52.679
I'm not going to disagree, but he could have been what people

786
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.079
think, like really like enjoying that.

787
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:57.900
I actually think it's his way of sort of trying to justify in his

788
00:36:57.900 --> 00:36:58.800
head what's just happened.

789
00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:00.840
That's my personal reading of it.

790
00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:04.440
And look, of course, should it have been shot the way it was

791
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:04.860
shot?

792
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:06.179
should it really have happened?

793
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:07.920
Probably not, okay?

794
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:14.340
But I remember as a kid watching various Hollywood movies and a

795
00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:18.900
lot of henchmen get dispatched in sort of cruel sort of humourous

796
00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:21.480
ways, like, you know, sucked into aeroplane propellers, and then

797
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.280
the hero has some sort of witty line.

798
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:26.880
And I can sort of see, listeners, I'm sorry, I'm just going to

799
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:28.500
give up here and just say, look, I've got a dark sense of humour.

800
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:29.639
Every time I watch this scene.

801
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:31.199
I had no sympathy for those attendants.

802
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:34.260
I think they're absolute fools. and no, I'm sorry.

803
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:34.920
I'm sorry.

804
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:39.059
I know you're laughing, Nathan, but I really just, I just sit

805
00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:41.940
there and I just actually just go, well, you're an idiot, you

806
00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:42.119
know?

807
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:42.900
I'm sorry.

808
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:44.699
You're brought out upon yourself.

809
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:45.960
There you go, woman.

810
00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:47.519
You gonna take the doctor now, well, good luck.

811
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:50.159
And I have no problem at all with him even saying.

812
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:53.820
I'm just imagining those 2 attendants having a chat 5 minutes

813
00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:56.639
before that saying, so I asked for them to put a rail around this

814
00:37:56.639 --> 00:37:58.739
pool of acid and they're not going to.

815
00:37:58.800 --> 00:37:59.400
Do you know why?

816
00:37:59.460 --> 00:37:59.820
Why?

817
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.559
Because they say we'll be leaning on it.

818
00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:04.980
Oh, well, that would have been wonderful to have a scene like

819
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:05.159
that.

820
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:07.500
Divine scene actually I had more problem with.

821
00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:10.920
That's a contradict because all of those people die.

822
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:13.380
Even the 2 in the background.

823
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:15.900
They didn't need to necessarily the 2 other guards.

824
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:18.539
It could have just been those horrible 2 that have caused a lot of

825
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:18.900
problems.

826
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:22.019
But, you know, in context of the new series where Russell T has

827
00:38:22.019 --> 00:38:25.739
gone about the doctor uses other people as weapons, it's just, you

828
00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:28.619
know, and the doctor doesn't do it all the time, whether it be, you

829
00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:32.340
know, blowing up fleets of things or whatever, he does use other

830
00:38:32.340 --> 00:38:34.139
people and that survives them.

831
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.579
And rather darkly.

832
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:40.380
Had the chief and Quillum been left alive, they're in Seal's

833
00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:40.679
pocket.

834
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:44.820
With them gone, still has no power on Varos.

835
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.019
Okay.

836
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.840
But I mean, he is then undermined by the Galatron mining

837
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:49.679
corporation anyway.

838
00:38:49.739 --> 00:38:50.579
Yeah, exactly.

839
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:54.780
Interestingly enough, over on the A team, which is still in

840
00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:55.980
competition with Doctor Who at this point.

841
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.559
We do have lots of guns.

842
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.619
The big thing, though, about the A-Team, and the thing everyone

843
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:04.619
comments on is the 18 themselves never shoot people, they only

844
00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:07.500
shoot cars, they shoot cars off the road, and then when the car

845
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.139
goes off the road, they have to have a shot showing everyone

846
00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:10.980
getting out of the car.

847
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:15.719
So it's like the A team's thing was violence and explosions, but

848
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:19.079
very visibly showing, yeah, no one's died from this, which is

849
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.960
exactly the kind of thing Eric Saywood argues against.

850
00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:25.800
He says, if you're going to fire a gun, you have to show the

851
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.519
violent impact of that act to get across the firing guns is bad.

852
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:32.699
See, that's why I just think you don't do it in Doctor Who.

853
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:37.500
There's no blood in New Who just about for the 1st like for the

854
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:38.820
whole Russell T. Davis era.

855
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:42.659
I think we get a bit of blood where the master gets killed in last

856
00:39:42.659 --> 00:39:43.619
of the time lords.

857
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:45.900
There's still terror and violence.

858
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:46.739
There's stakes.

859
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.119
There's people who get killed.

860
00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:52.619
But there's just a kind of relentless nastiness to the program at

861
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:54.420
the moment, which I don't like.

862
00:39:54.480 --> 00:40:00.059
And there is occasionally humour, but, but Eric Saywood can't

863
00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:01.019
write good jokes.

864
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:05.280
I think the best joke is the ad-libbed Perrier joke, which is just

865
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.440
the doctor being sort of rather sweet and silly.

866
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.739
I think there's something unpleasant about this story.

867
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:15.719
The other joke that was cut, which is rather terrible.

868
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.639
You can find it on the DVD.

869
00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.219
So originally the whole, what are we going to do?

870
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:23.760
Dano thing with the static screen wasn't the final shot.

871
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.579
There was a shot back in the TARDIS with the doctor saying to

872
00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:29.159
Perry, look, are you feeling okay after what you've been through?

873
00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:33.480
And she says, well, aside from the residual effects of foul pest, I

874
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:34.260
think I'll be fine.

875
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.260
That's been our 2nd foul pest joke of the era.

876
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.619
Which leads the doctor then to say, well, so long as you stay away

877
00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:43.500
from millet and cuttlefish, and they have a Scooby-Doo laugh, and

878
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:44.340
the titles cut in.

879
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:47.460
And it's not Colin and Nicola's fault.

880
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:50.460
It's a horrible script and it really undermines the whole, what

881
00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:51.059
are we going to do?

882
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:54.059
Dunno ending, which is which is lovely and memorable.

883
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.719
I actually like how both episodes end with a shot of a television

884
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:58.320
screen.

885
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:01.920
You know, one with a cliffhanger on it and one with static.

886
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:04.860
And, you know, the static at the end just makes us think of the

887
00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:05.519
hiatus.

888
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:06.360
Like, what's going to happen?

889
00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:08.159
We've got no Doctor Who for 18 months.

890
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:08.940
What are we going to do?

891
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.199
ahead of ourselves.

892
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:17.519
So we do, of course, have. who I think is actually pretty good and

893
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:20.880
I'm not surprised that he comes back next year.

894
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:23.280
I think he's sort of funny.

895
00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:25.380
I think the laugh that he does is really good.

896
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.980
He looks like a turd that's been working out, doesn't he?

897
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:29.400
Really?

898
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:35.579
He's got a pointy end, you know, and he's sort of a bit some upper

899
00:41:35.579 --> 00:41:36.840
body sort of muscles and stuff.

900
00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:38.519
He is proper buff like.

901
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.039
You're a lying liar.

902
00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:47.699
And I love the fact that he finds her revoltingly ugly.

903
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:51.179
Like, it's just, I just find that so funny because like, she's a

904
00:41:51.179 --> 00:41:51.780
beautiful woman.

905
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.800
And also, you know, throughout this era, she's going to be sleazed

906
00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:56.820
on by aliens.

907
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.099
Mestor thought she was really hot stuff.

908
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:03.000
So it's kind of nice, a little bit of a relief, in fact, that Seal

909
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:04.139
doesn't find her attractive as well.

910
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.019
And then he's got his buffer attendance with him, you know?

911
00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:08.639
I just think that's appalling.

912
00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:13.139
And is it the only time that black people appear in this season?

913
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:18.599
It may be the only, one of them gets to say the word right.

914
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:22.320
So it may be the only black person with the speaking part, and all

915
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:26.280
they are is slaves in fetish gear.

916
00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:30.480
And, you know, we complained about that in terror of the autons

917
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.840
because of poor old Roy Stewart.

918
00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.940
But, you know, it's much later.

919
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.679
It's the 80s now and that's not really defensible, I think.

920
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:43.619
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, it is a problem for

921
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:44.039
the season.

922
00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:47.099
I don't think it's a problem for this story because it very

923
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:50.639
quickly tells you through visual identification, through the fact

924
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:52.860
that these are 2 black actors.

925
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.860
It's only a few years after roots, which was, of course, watershed

926
00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:56.699
television.

927
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.099
It is telling you that Sill has slaves and that is wrong.

928
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:02.039
And therefore he is an villainous character.

929
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:05.639
I had not considered that these are the only 2 black actors in the

930
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:05.880
season.

931
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:09.119
And I agree with you that that is appalling representation.

932
00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:13.980
I hadn't considered either and I think that they wouldn't even

933
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:14.880
have considered it.

934
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:16.440
No, but that's a problem.

935
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:17.639
Like, they just didn't think about it.

936
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:18.599
No.

937
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:20.280
And that's what I'm saying is the problem.

938
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:24.840
The problem is that we have 2 slaves to cast will cast black

939
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:27.960
people and that's the only time we think of doing that this year.

940
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:34.500
And the 80s, Doctor Who isn't that great in the 80s, as far as

941
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:37.199
representation of sort of minorities is concerned.

942
00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:41.099
And it does get a bit better when Sylvester McCoy comes along.

943
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:44.340
But then there are sort of slightly embarrassing token things like

944
00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:47.039
the ringmastery and greater show of the galaxy.

945
00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:50.579
But I do think that it's not really good enough.

946
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:52.800
And those guys too.

947
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.820
They're in the backgrounds are shots, and they're just staring

948
00:43:56.820 --> 00:44:00.900
into the distance, you know, they're barely people, their scenery

949
00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:03.360
and I really think that that's bad.

950
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:07.500
And I think it's no better next year when it turns out that Thoros

951
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:11.159
Beta is the planet of black people who carry slugs around the

952
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:11.400
place.

953
00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:15.059
I will say getting slightly ahead of ourselves next year, though

954
00:44:15.059 --> 00:44:18.000
that Frax and Madame Catriona are characters.

955
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.179
Oh, yeah, yeah. in a way that these guys don't get in a way.

956
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:21.719
Yeah, exactly.

957
00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:26.880
A word on Nabil Shabin, of course, who has been a Doctor Who fan

958
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:29.340
since the Heartnol era.

959
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.699
His 1st Doctor Who story was the 1st Dalek story while he was in

960
00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:33.000
hospital.

961
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:33.780
Right.

962
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:37.860
So he is an actor with a condition called osteogenesis

963
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:40.920
imperfectica, which meant his legs didn't develop.

964
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:41.519
Right.

965
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:44.460
Um, the slug tail are his legs.

966
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.880
So, for me as I look down.

967
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:51.480
I'm looking at the top of my thighs, that is essentially the

968
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:52.440
extent of his legs.

969
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:57.239
So yeah, he was in that and I think he kind of describes it as

970
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:58.500
being like a mermaid tale.

971
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:02.940
And initially he was going to be submerged, partially submerged in

972
00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:03.480
that tank.

973
00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:06.000
But they couldn't figure out a way to make it work, so they just

974
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.019
perched him on top instead.

975
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:11.880
I like how he calls upon the attendance to moisturise him, though.

976
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

977
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.900
I need to look the best, my best for the sort of upcoming

978
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:19.500
conference call.

979
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.679
I find the heat of this Varos type world.

980
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:25.380
Most unpleasant.

981
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.179
I think he's I think he's fun.

982
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:29.400
I think he's the most Doctor Who-ish thing in the story.

983
00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:33.480
And, well, it's kind of the thing we would come to expect from

984
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:36.300
David Tennant in that he's an immense fan of the show.

985
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:41.880
So he puts in 5000% into his performance and is thus magnificent.

986
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:43.380
Yeah, the laugh is really great.

987
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:47.039
And it was a great idea to end episode one on that laugh.

988
00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:48.119
I love that.

989
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:48.960
It's wonderful.

990
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:52.260
And it is, it's the sort of thing you can imitate in the

991
00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:52.679
playground.

992
00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:54.539
Oh, great, it's precisely.

993
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:55.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

994
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:57.420
We, you know, it sticks in my mind to this day.

995
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:01.559
Yeah, he's the 1st imitable villain and indeed alien.

996
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:03.900
In ages.

997
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.880
I'm trying to think of another villain.

998
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:06.239
You might.

999
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:09.659
Well, I think, I remember you saying, Todd, that you and your

1000
00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:11.460
sister would imitate the Mara.

1001
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:13.260
Tegan's Mara voice.

1002
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.559
Yeah, that's more of a person rather than, yeah, yeah.

1003
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.739
We used to, we used to do lots of skibbus and tarpoc, I think.

1004
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.679
Back in the 80s, I seem to remember.

1005
00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:23.519
Excellent.

1006
00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:24.360
Skim us.

1007
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:28.500
But I don't think we didn't we didn't do them on the playground

1008
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:31.139
like, you know, but this was the 1st one, you know.

1009
00:46:31.739 --> 00:46:35.699
The John Nathan Turner era, really, that, you know, you're doing

1010
00:46:35.699 --> 00:46:36.480
in the playground.

1011
00:46:36.539 --> 00:46:38.940
Yeah, they haven't done great monsters, have they?

1012
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:42.960
And I think everyone's since then, like in the new series, they're

1013
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:43.440
very careful.

1014
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.320
And Moffat in particular is particularly good at introducing and

1015
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.179
creating new high concept, you know, monsters and aliens, but it's

1016
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:53.699
really not something that the program's been interested in for a

1017
00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:54.000
while.

1018
00:46:54.059 --> 00:46:58.619
And still is more of a character than a, than a race of aliens

1019
00:46:58.619 --> 00:46:58.800
really.

1020
00:46:58.920 --> 00:46:59.880
Yeah.

1021
00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:03.960
Although we will get to see more of his race next year because JNT

1022
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:08.340
was so taken with Nabil's performance because really Nabil creates

1023
00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:13.380
the mentors here. and creates the idea that they're this ruthless

1024
00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:14.699
mercantile race.

1025
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:19.199
Shortly before production wrapped, Jonathan Turner sent a memo to

1026
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.780
I believe it was the props department saying, please retain the

1027
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:23.219
costume and the water tank.

1028
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.619
I intend to revisit the character.

1029
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:29.699
And they disobeyed because he comes back in a different costume

1030
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:30.960
than without the water team.

1031
00:47:31.019 --> 00:47:33.599
They did keep it, but they decided to do a new right.

1032
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:34.260
Yeah.

1033
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.579
So yeah, the stuff was kept.

1034
00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:38.519
I think the 2nd costume is a little bit more successful.

1035
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:43.260
There's a sort of Finn thing around his face, which obscures the

1036
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:43.559
join.

1037
00:47:43.619 --> 00:47:46.800
Yeah, there's a bit of a problem with the helmet and the face and

1038
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.320
all of that sort of thing and I think they do a better job of it

1039
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:49.800
next time.

1040
00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:52.500
I'm not sure about the bright green next time.

1041
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:57.420
But, you know, he, it's not the costume so much as the performance

1042
00:47:57.420 --> 00:48:02.400
that's fun and it is, you know, it's a fairly bog standard satire

1043
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:07.739
of sort of slimy mid 80s capitalism and that's something that will

1044
00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:12.239
be played up a lot more actually in his next appearance next

1045
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:12.480
year.

1046
00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:14.579
So speaking of costumes.

1047
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.460
The doctor actually gets out of his coach during this story, like

1048
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:18.960
for quite a bit of it.

1049
00:48:19.019 --> 00:48:22.199
I like the fact that the coat's not there for a bit, you know?

1050
00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:26.519
I think the coat works better when it's on alien worlds.

1051
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:28.079
I know you didn't like it last week.

1052
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:31.139
But you see, last week I didn't have a problem with it because you

1053
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:33.360
were in the tombs and even when they were running around London.

1054
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:35.400
They weren't interacting with many people, so it was just their

1055
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:39.000
own little subplot, so I didn't actually have a problem with

1056
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:39.599
that.

1057
00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:42.179
And I like the fact that it gets ditched for a while here, which

1058
00:48:42.179 --> 00:48:43.500
is a good thing, but yeah.

1059
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:46.860
The costume that's left isn't very flattering because it's got

1060
00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:52.260
those big yellow pants that are worn up too high and then a big

1061
00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:53.820
white shirt.

1062
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:56.820
And so he's wearing pale colours that really don't flash him.

1063
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:01.739
And again, the 2nd doctor, 3rd doctor in a row, whose braces have

1064
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:04.860
question marks on them, which I just think is awful.

1065
00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:06.599
So I don't like that.

1066
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:10.800
I'm going to be a big fan next week of the Flash's Mac that he

1067
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.420
steals and wears in Mark of the Rani, and I would have liked to

1068
00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:17.760
have seen him wear that a little bit further.

1069
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:20.760
And actually, I suspect that Colin would have been more

1070
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:22.320
comfortable in that as well.

1071
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:23.159
Probably would have too.

1072
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:26.940
There is actually a very hopeful moment where he starts trying on

1073
00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:30.000
Quillum's clothes, but gets interrupted just a little too soon

1074
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:30.480
thankfully.

1075
00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:31.920
Oh, can we?

1076
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.840
Unfortunately, I should say.

1077
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:34.920
You don't like him?

1078
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:42.239
No, I think that the standard disfigured scientist guy is tired.

1079
00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:46.139
You know, he's kind of a 5th rate Davros, really.

1080
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:50.340
I'm a bit exhausted by how he's coded as gay.

1081
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:54.719
There's extravagant hand movements, the way that he speaks, and

1082
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.079
that famous line, you know, I want to hear him scream until I am

1083
00:49:58.079 --> 00:49:59.159
deaf with pleasure.

1084
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:00.659
Like he's camp.

1085
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.059
So I don't like the performance.

1086
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:07.019
He's got terrible commander data hair, which I guess is just part

1087
00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:11.039
of the period, and I don't know what he's doing there.

1088
00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:12.119
Do you know what I mean?

1089
00:50:12.179 --> 00:50:15.420
I mean, his job is to run that transmogrification thing.

1090
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:18.659
But I think the transmogrification thing is a mistake.

1091
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:22.559
It's kind of a sci-fi B movie conceit.

1092
00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:26.099
And they were never, ever going to be able to pull it off in a

1093
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:26.880
convincing way.

1094
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:31.500
And so perry with the gloves with feathers sewn onto them.

1095
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:33.659
It just looks stewed.

1096
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:36.119
I think those look amazing.

1097
00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:40.019
To talk about Quillum for a second, his performance changes when

1098
00:50:40.019 --> 00:50:41.099
his mask gets ripped off.

1099
00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:45.300
When he has the mask on, he's very calm and very controlled.

1100
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:48.840
As soon as the mask is ripped off, he's ranting and raving.

1101
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:51.960
And I think it ties in with that thing I was saying earlier about

1102
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:56.159
is the 6 doctor, a character with actually really low self-esteem

1103
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:56.760
who's acting out.

1104
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:58.380
And I think that's the case with Quillum.

1105
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:03.059
I think no one has seen him without his mask before and now he is

1106
00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:07.619
embarrassed and fighting because he's got this disfigurement, which

1107
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:09.360
is silly in and of itself.

1108
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:11.519
You know, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

1109
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:12.539
You would learn to live with it.

1110
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:17.039
But the transmogrification, especially the makeup on Geraldine

1111
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:21.059
Alexander as a retta, the reptilian makeup, it is Star Trek the

1112
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:23.940
next generation level, which everyone was holding.

1113
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:26.159
Maybe season one, Star Trek the next generation level.

1114
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:29.400
But I really like Nicolas Bird makeup as well.

1115
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.880
Maybe it's just an eye of the beholder thing, but I think it's

1116
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:33.420
done really well.

1117
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:37.260
Physical disfigurement and transmogrification is an obsession for

1118
00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:37.920
Philip Martin.

1119
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:39.659
It'll come up in his next Doctor Who story.

1120
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.059
He writes a story for Big Finish where it comes up again.

1121
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:46.079
Much like Robert Holmes with Space Pirates, Power of Kroll, and

1122
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:47.159
K's of Andrazani.

1123
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:49.079
Philip Martin writes one story for Doctor Who.

1124
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:53.340
I don't mind the transmogrification at all.

1125
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.420
Yeah, the glove hand looks a bit, but the rest of it, I think, is

1126
00:51:57.420 --> 00:51:58.440
quite well done.

1127
00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:02.099
I never saw the gay code of stuff in Gryllm's performance as a

1128
00:52:02.099 --> 00:52:02.219
kid.

1129
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.380
I just didn't see it and I still didn't pick up on it now.

1130
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.300
I don't think it's necessarily there.

1131
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:10.199
Can I say one thing in defence of one performance that people were

1132
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:10.800
talking about earlier?

1133
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:17.519
I quite like Areta's Info Dumps at the beginning of episode one.

1134
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.559
I love her scene with Quillum.

1135
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:23.340
Or something truly loathsome such as you.

1136
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:27.059
It's so Shakespearean, but I also really love her scene with

1137
00:52:27.059 --> 00:52:30.480
Rondall because it is the unfortunate thing, oh, she has to say

1138
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:33.659
things like, you know, the descendants of the officers still

1139
00:52:33.659 --> 00:52:34.139
rule.

1140
00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:38.400
It's an unfortunate line, but I believe the emotion she puts into

1141
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:41.639
it, and I believe the emotion that Rondall responds with.

1142
00:52:41.699 --> 00:52:45.659
I think having a character called Rondle is a mistake in a series

1143
00:52:45.659 --> 00:52:48.179
when you've already established the word roundel.

1144
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:51.840
It could have been called fondle.

1145
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:54.000
Fondle.

1146
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:55.559
No, that wasn't an instruction.

1147
00:52:55.619 --> 00:52:58.440
Although, you know, with him, I would.

1148
00:52:58.500 --> 00:53:00.900
Anyway, um, he's dead now.

1149
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.639
Have some respect, Brandon.

1150
00:53:02.699 --> 00:53:06.300
It's actually better than a lot of other info dumps in the era.

1151
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:09.780
But Ira has a tendency towards info dumps.

1152
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:12.960
I mean, we're going to hit the Nadir of that in a few stories.

1153
00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:15.599
Oh, 500, obviously.

1154
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:16.920
It's not necessary.

1155
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:17.880
Do you know what I mean?

1156
00:53:17.940 --> 00:53:18.900
It's not necessary.

1157
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.239
They're writing down to the audience.

1158
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:27.780
And the syntax of them is so deadening, you know, that example

1159
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:31.079
something truly loathsome such as you, like, who would say that?

1160
00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:34.800
It doesn't need to be supernaturalistic, but it doesn't need to be

1161
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:35.880
quite so awkward.

1162
00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:40.440
And next week it's going to get worse in a story that I think is

1163
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:44.519
less unpleasant than this one, but it has much more florid and

1164
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:46.800
preposterous dialogue than this one does.

1165
00:53:46.860 --> 00:53:48.480
Yeah, her performance.

1166
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:51.000
I'm sorry, no, it just doesn't sell it.

1167
00:53:51.059 --> 00:53:52.500
I'm sorry, it just doesn't print.

1168
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:56.400
I mean, I think she just becomes a peril monkey after that point.

1169
00:53:56.460 --> 00:53:59.219
Yeah, she identifies the Gigi fly.

1170
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.619
She screams John Darr a lot.

1171
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:04.920
She doesn't stop Perry wandering off and getting caught in the

1172
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:05.340
buggy.

1173
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:09.300
Those buggies, you can tell when they've been sped up on the video

1174
00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:09.960
disc.

1175
00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:14.820
And yet they keep, they come back at least twice in the series in

1176
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:15.599
different forms.

1177
00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:16.500
It's ridiculous.

1178
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.019
They're back in Happiness Patrol.

1179
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:20.039
When else have they back?

1180
00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:23.219
I believe they are, I believe they are adapted in mysterious

1181
00:54:23.219 --> 00:54:23.579
planet.

1182
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:28.800
Oh, actually, I mean, they're cute, but they're ridiculous. but

1183
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.800
they're ridiculous. but I don't mind them.

1184
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:34.679
There's an attempt to make it seem a bit less studio-ish.

1185
00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:35.460
Do you know what I mean?

1186
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:36.900
Yeah, rather than just drive vehicles around.

1187
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:40.260
It's like, it's like the horses in the studio in the gunfighters

1188
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:40.800
you know?

1189
00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:43.619
So this story, ratings.

1190
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:48.239
7.2 and 7 million, which is, you know, pretty much in line with

1191
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:53.880
previous, but what's concerning is the placing, which is 108th and

1192
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:54.780
110th.

1193
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.219
So obviously it's not even in the top 100.

1194
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:57.900
With 7 million.

1195
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:02.099
You know, and previous seasons with 7 or 7.5 million.

1196
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:03.960
It's like, you know, in the 80s or whatever.

1197
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:07.559
Looking at Pete's ratings and the ratings here is that a lot of

1198
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:14.460
Peter's episodes are either 7.6 or 6.6. there's this 1000000 gap.

1199
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:18.539
And the 7.6 is, when he has like one around 7 million, it tends to

1200
00:55:18.539 --> 00:55:18.900
be lower.

1201
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:22.139
So I reckon there's a lot of television shows, that are between

1202
00:55:22.139 --> 00:55:24.179
like 7000000 and about 7.6.

1203
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.960
And if you hit the bottom scale of that, you'll suddenly push down

1204
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:32.280
a lot, whereas I think there is a big difference between 7000000

1205
00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:33.659
and getting 7.6 million.

1206
00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:35.579
I think there's a lot of shows that are probably in there.

1207
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:38.460
Is Doc 2 going out, it's going out at 520.

1208
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:43.980
See, maybe the fact that it is earlier means that there might be

1209
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:47.159
you know, a few 100,000 viewers that aren't there.

1210
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:49.320
It is sort of too early, isn't it?

1211
00:55:49.380 --> 00:55:51.960
Yeah, and I think at this stage, they're still pitching the

1212
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:53.460
scripts for a later time slot.

1213
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:57.059
Yeah, it does seem unusual to have people fall into baths of acid

1214
00:55:57.059 --> 00:56:01.559
at sort of quarter to six. on a weekend night.

1215
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:04.980
Look, I just want to say, you've brought up a lot of interesting

1216
00:56:04.980 --> 00:56:05.940
points, Nathan.

1217
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.800
I have real respect for your insights.

1218
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:11.639
I think the biggest thing that you've brought up here is the fact

1219
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:16.559
that the doctor's impact is minimal. and the fact that the slave

1220
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:20.219
guards are black men and that and I never even thought about. the

1221
00:56:20.219 --> 00:56:22.260
only the only the only black actors in the season.

1222
00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:26.639
For me, watching this, again, in order, the biggest problem of the

1223
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:31.380
era so far is that each story has tried to do something new and

1224
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:32.940
not quite succeeded.

1225
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:37.980
But I feel like at this point in the Davis and era, we'd had

1226
00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:43.019
Castro Valver, Fort Doomsday and Kinder, and of those, I would

1227
00:56:43.019 --> 00:56:46.320
only say Kinder is the most inventive of those.

1228
00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:50.280
Whereas twin dilemma, for all its fault, Attack of the Simon and

1229
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:52.739
this, are all incredibly inventive.

1230
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:56.699
Possibly to the detriment of the story, but I think that's

1231
00:56:56.699 --> 00:57:00.659
possibly why I prefer Colin's era to Peters, and I'll discover

1232
00:57:00.659 --> 00:57:01.739
that more as I go along.

1233
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.820
But Collins era, if nothing else, is always inventive.

1234
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:31.739
Well, dear listeners, we have refuelled on Argonite/spectrox

1235
00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:35.519
methane/ziton 7/ Tesla's electric motor, so we'll be taking off

1236
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:36.780
from the planet Varos.

1237
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.800
Now, heading to Cube Gardens in the 19th century.

1238
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:42.539
It's going to be a great trip.

1239
00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:43.739
I'm so looking forward to it.

1240
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:46.019
Do come back next week for Mark of the Rani.

1241
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:48.659
You can find us online at Flightthrough Entirety.sexy

1242
00:57:48.659 --> 00:57:51.719
Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast

1243
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:52.380
on Twitter.

1244
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:53.699
Over on Bondfinger.

1245
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:56.400
We have the complete run of Sean Connery and Roger Moore James

1246
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:59.760
Bond films, as well as special guest stars, David Nevin and George

1247
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:00.480
Lazenby.

1248
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:01.500
Thats in the films, by the way.

1249
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:03.480
They didn't come watch them with us.

1250
00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:06.780
You can find that at bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and

1251
00:58:06.780 --> 00:58:08.699
iTunes and Bond finger cast on Twitter.

1252
00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:11.760
I'm continuing to self-promote by telling you to go by the

1253
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:15.780
wonderful book, Hating to Love, which also includes essays from

1254
00:58:15.780 --> 00:58:17.219
people such as J.R.

1255
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:22.019
Southall, and Beth Ward and John Arnold, reassessing 52 of the

1256
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:23.760
worst ever Doctor Who stories.

1257
00:58:23.820 --> 00:58:25.139
Which Colin Baker ones are in there?

1258
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:27.420
Well, you're just going to have to have a look at the book and

1259
00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:27.900
find out.

1260
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:32.039
And finally, may none of your alien slugs get the runs after

1261
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:33.659
eating dyed peaches.

1262
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:34.860
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1263
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:35.639
Good night.

1264
00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:36.360
See you soon.

1265
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:44.880
That was Flatthrough Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Boffley and

1266
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:47.460
Brendan Jones. theme arrangement by Cameron Ladd.

1267
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:51.719
This episode, cardboard and wooden, was recorded on January 15th

1268
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:52.320
2017.

1269
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:54.780
The next episode will be released on February 12th.

1270
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:59.400
Out now on Verosian Broadcasting Company Video, Nappy Cannibals

1271
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:01.019
Gone Wild Volume 7.

1272
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:04.139
Order now and receive a free copy of synchronised acid bath

1273
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:04.559
diving.

1274
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:11.340
Like I think there are good things in this story, but I think

1275
00:59:11.340 --> 00:59:12.719
there are a lot of bad things as well.

1276
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:16.860
A lot.

1277
00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:20.639
That's okay because I think there's crap in this, but I enjoy it.

1278
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:21.780
Yeah.

1279
00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:24.119
I enjoyed pathetic performances.

1280
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:25.019
Yeah.

1281
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.659
Who do you think is pathetic?

1282
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:28.800
That woman.

1283
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.039
Oh Jesus Christ, she's bad.

1284
00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:33.480
Okay, could we save it?

1285
00:59:33.539 --> 00:59:37.500
They're a power couple of crap, but I love the fact that they're

1286
00:59:37.500 --> 00:59:37.860
crap.