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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:41:15

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who would like to fly away from trouble, as would a politician's expense account.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and we're going in for a spot of light, green zone, blowflies and torture, in vengeance on Tharos.

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So this is a story that critiques us for watching it, isn't it?

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And we've had this before.

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Do you remember Carnival of Monsters, where Katie Manning suggests that we must be terrible people to want to tune in and watch her being chased by monsters.

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Here the same thing happens.

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And there's something a little bit brilliant about giving us a substitute audience to identify with.

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I want to leap in and say, I think this story is terribly overrated, but I do think that one of the best things about it is Arak and Etta.

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Yes, played by the wonderful Stephen Yardley, previously seen in Genesis of the Daleks as the Muto, who helps Sarah.

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Oh my goodness, it's Severance.

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Yeah, it's Sever.

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He's also the XXY man from the series of the same name.

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He was in Day of the Triffords.

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He's great actor.

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Sheila Reed, of course, classic actress, most familiar to Doctor Who fans as Clara's Gran.

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I love the fact that they're the goggle box.

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Of Doctor Who.

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They are just a joy, Nathan.

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They are just a joy to watch.

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And the fact that they recorded all their scenes at the end of the recording blog.

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So they actually pumped the images through the television.

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So they were seeing what the other actors are doing for the 1st time and reacting to that. makes it even more glorious.

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And the whole framing of that within the story works wonderful.

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And my favourite moment is Cliffhanger to episode one where Colin's dying of thirst, and both of them are thirsty, like they vote.

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I particularly love when he says, I'm going to go to bed and tells her to vote for him and she threatens to dob him in because it's a homesian kind of world building move.

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I'm going to be critical of some of Philip Martin's writing choices in this.

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I don't think this is an overrated story.

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I do think this is one of the best quality stories of the era.

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I would agree with that.

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Yeah, but it's terrible.

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But I think something Philip Martin does masterfully here, we do have Martin Jarvis occasionally telling us what this culture is like, but we have Eric and Etta actually showing us in their interactions with each other.

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And because we're discussing them, let's jump to the last scene right now where they realise they're free and they don't know what to do with themselves with nothing on the television.

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It's weird because it's hopeful and it's funny and it's sad all at the same time that they don't know what to do.

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And I think ending a Doctor Who episode on a screen full of static is very daring at this type in history.

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No, I love the ending.

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I love this.

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The previous time I watched this, I wasn't that in love with it.

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But this time watching it in order, I actually liked it even more.

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My biggest criticism, besides the crap power couple, which we'll come to talk about, for me, is the fact the doctor and pairing are trapped in the TARDIS for too long. 25 minutes.

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That's right.

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And of course, Eric Seywood instructs his writers, well, what do we do?

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Well, we have to then have a bitch scene between them.

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I actually suspect that that's Eric Saywood writing that scene.

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Am I right?

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Is there no way of knowing?

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But it's a really nasty thing.

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The one thing that I do like is Perry saying that he keeps burning the dinner and all of that sort of thing, and that's more of that Collins doctor's incompetence at things and getting things wrong and being rather silly and a bit loveable.

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But I wish we'd kind of seen that rather than just having these giant wodges of unconvincing dialogue.

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I do feel for them in that they have to act through this.

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The previous time I watched it, I watched it out of order and I really detested that scene.

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This time because of what's gone on in the twin dilemma and their bumpy relationship.

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I got to the point where it was like, okay, enough now.

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Do I need to see anymore?

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But then it stopped.

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Whereas the previous time, right from the beginning, I was just going, oh, please.

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So, Depending on what mood I'm in, I either go, well, I can live with it or, we've then got the wonderful plot device, that the TARDIS is running out of this special ore, which can only be found on one planet, which you've never heard of before.

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Last week, didn't we have a special mineral that blew up the cyber control?

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And 2 weeks before that.

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Well, sorry, not 2 weeks, but 2 stories before that, we had Spectrox, the most valuable substance in the universe.

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One of the most valuable substances in the universe.

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But this one you see had a trademark.

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Oh, okay.

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So my biggest criticism for the story is that Tartist stuff.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And Colin, why does Colin?

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He just sort of becomes defeated and slumps into a chair and stuff.

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And it is, Saywood doesn't want us to have a hero.

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And he keeps keeping the doctor out of stories.

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I don't know who's responsible for the structure here, and I'll talk more about it later when we talk about the story's resolution.

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But he keeps wanting to undermine Collin's doctor all the time.

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And so have him sort of just petulantly slump in a chair and give up and talk about waiting for death.

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Like, that's in no way entertaining, and it damages the character, and the character keeps being damaged, and I don't think it's Colin's fault.

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It's something I've criticised a much later story for and that is, it's an effort to make the companion look intelligent and resourceful.

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But rather than just allowing Perry to be intelligent and resourceful, it has to come because the doctor's being stupid.

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Yeah.

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But at the same time, watching these stories in order, something I'm picking up on is, The 6 doctors lack of self-esteem.

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And if you consider the character as being someone who actually lacks self-esteem, the tantrums and the despondency, but also the mania, start to make a little more sense.

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And you know what?

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Hand on my heart, I am sure I am reading something that isn't there because Colin has never discussed that.

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And Colin is very happy to discuss his character and his approach to the character.

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But if you look at his character as someone who is actually not very sure of themselves, suddenly the patchwork costume makes a lot of sense.

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He's saying, look at me, look at me, look at me, don't look at me, look at me, look at me, don't look at me.

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And I do think at least Nicola kind of rises to the fact that, you know, she brings in the TARDIS manual and throws it at him and tells him to stop sighing like a steam engine and feeling sorry for yourself.

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And then Perry's still taking on the role here of his nurse and his carer, you know.

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I'm not saying it's perfect, but I am saying there is some kind of value there.

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In terms of the structure of the story, This is, I was referring to last week, an example of where when you break them up into 25 minutes, it's really terrible because the cliffhanger to episode one of this story is them arriving on Varos, the guard shooting at the TARDIS, it's actually, I wonder who's coming towards us.

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That's actually...

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Oh yes, you're right. right.

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The better clip hangout would have been if he'd shot at the TARDIS.

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And then it had gone to Cliffhanger.

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Yeah.

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But of course, it's one of these things where who's ever viewing the tapes just goes, okay, there it is.

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It doesn't bother to look 25 seconds either side. see this better.

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The episode 31 is even worse because it's during the transmogrification scene, right?

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And after they've shot the machine, they've run up to where they're transmogrified and they think it hasn't worked.

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And you think that's the perfect cliffhanger.

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You know, you cut to Perry and Areta, and they're still in their beast forms, if you like.

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The actual cliffhanger is when it has worked and they pick them up off the thing.

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And Nicola has that beautiful line where she says, I thought I could fly.

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You know, she delivers it in such a delirious way.

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It' lovely.

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The doctor responds, walking all is all that's required for now.

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What the hell is that?

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That is the worst cliffhanger in the history of the series.

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I think that I think that one is because they just walk off the screen, don't they?

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Yeah, they just start to walk off.

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That might be that might be the worst one of these fake cliffhangers of the season.

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But I still hadn't tweaked.

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As a kid, I still hadn't tweaked that the structure was any different because in the middle, you've got that episode 2 Cliffhanger, which is cut it now, right?

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Which is just spectacular.

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It's genius.

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Yeah, genius.

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And so you get these cliffhangers that are the actual cliffhangers.

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And you get one that's a bit dodgy and one that's probably crap.

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But I just didn't pick up.

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So can we talk about that episode too, Cliffhanger, because it's the doctor in peril, which is what we expect from a cliffhanger.

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But instead of seeing it directly, we see it on television.

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We get the governor doing the director's job and saying, cut it now.

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We get a laugh from seal that bleeds over the closing credits, and the show dutifully obeys what the governor's direction is and cuts as the governor directs.

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And so it is that we're watching people watching television with the doctor in it.

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Just as Eric and Etta are watching the doctor on television as well while we're watching them.

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And the fact that in this story, and this story, I think, suffers from the problem that it's said in an artificial environment, the punishment dome, where all of the peril is kind of engineered and things.

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So it's a little bit too easy to come up with these sort of various different kinds of peril.

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And the peril is not generally very interesting or well realised.

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So sometimes it's a green light that makes you smile and walk off into the distance.

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Sometimes it's too green lights that aren't all that perilous after all.

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Sometimes it's like, I like the house fly.

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I think it looks really fabulous.

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But all of those artificial video game perils that you just have to overcome one after another.

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But you do have to consider that element is of its time, and I'm glad you brought up video games.

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It's partially cashing in on that.

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It's also cashing in on the rise of horror movies on video and the fact that rating systems had yet to catch up with the home video market.

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Getting back to something you said about the green lights, 2 of them.

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I think that's so brilliant because so often in Doctor Who, we've had alien creatures just expressed by lights, most recently, the gum, you know, who starts off as 2 lights.

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It subverts because we're expecting it to be this monster and then older viewers are probably like, yeah, it's going to be a crap monster.

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And the doctor goes, no, it really is just 2 lights on a stick.

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But you see what it's saying about the show.

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Do you know what I mean?

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If Harry and Etta are essentially watching Doctor Who of this period, what they're tuning in for is just a series of kind of unmotivated threats that the doctor defeats or initially succumbs to and then maybe defeats.

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And increasingly those threats are nasty, and Arak and Etta are, you know, they're quite sweet, but they're also pretty bluntthirsty as well.

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You know, they're discussing scenes where people are blinded, executions, all of that sort of thing.

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And so this is, I think, a fairly savage attack, not only on us as viewers for still watching this crap, but also on the show itself, and not just this era, but, you know, the show is a show about various things assailing the doctor, people being killed, bloodthirsty things, and here we all are enjoying it, like Eric and Etar.

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I sometimes wonder if it is a satire on a bloodthirsty audience, or if it's a satire on the kind of people who now say that violent video games beget violence.

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Because as a gamer, I am constantly exposed to that idea.

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I have a friend who is a primary school teacher, who gotten a discussion with me about that once.

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He's like, you're an ex-teacher.

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How can you enjoy playing video games when they cause this violence and I see it in my students?

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And I'm kind of like, well, actually, no, there's lots of studies that say that just watching violence does not itself make you violent.

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I actually worry about ragtime music causing violence.

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Not to mention reefer madness.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, this is not very deep.

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I just sit there and if violence happens.

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Well, you know how bloodthirsty I was.

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So I'm one of these people that just says, yes, give me more of it, give me more of it, but to be quite honest, you know, at the time, I think there's a lot of Hollywood movies around this time that it's all now guns and violence and this is what we are, you know, maybe I'm desensitised to it. don't know.

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I don't know if I really thought about it on that level.

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And I think that's the best kind of commentary, the commentary that doesn't exactly tell you what to think, but just the commentary that makes you think.

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I think it is a strangely revealing kind of picture of the show.

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I think if nothing else, it is asking the audience to consider what they watch.

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Yeah.

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And, um, in a way, one of its antecedents is Nigel Neil's the year of the sex Olympics.

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This is from the same writer as Quator Mass. et cetera.

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And the concept of it was a world where reality TV has become the norm.

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I mean, God, awful people who work in reality television.

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And this show has started and it's about a young couple with a baby and they're living in this desolate environment and the idea is they're going back to basics.

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They don't have their technology and everyone at home is watching them live, et cetera, et cetera.

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And then a psychopath breaks into the studio and rather than stop the psychopath.

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Like, well, let's find out what happens next.

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So the weird thing is, I believe in the context of the show, the year of the sex Olympics.

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The Sex Olympics is another show, a competing show that they're referring to that they never show on screen because this is 1968, but everyone else is watching this survivalist show and wondering if these this young couple in this snowbound wasteland and their young baby is going to survive being in the same environment as a psychopath and they don't know it's there.

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But this idea of presenting a TV show or film, we're watching other people watching it.

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It's something that's never really gone away since then.

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You know, we've had the Truman show.

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We've had the Matrix, which was about beings watching humans as entertainment.

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Doctor Who's done it again.

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In, in perhaps my favourite story over Bad Wolf, the Parting of the Ways, which I just think is wonderful and also creates a disc topic future society by critiquing the things that they watch on television.

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And it kind of stretches the absolute boundaries of realism by having those things be exactly what we were watching on television in 2005.

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But those things are terribly funny.

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I think that's part of the reason I will always like the story and I will always rate it highly.

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It may not be perfect in this execution, and I certainly think there are pacing issues as we've previously discussed.

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But it, It is an attempt to do something really quite new and interesting and of the time.

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And something we discussed in our Peter Davidson retrospective a few weeks ago is quite often they're just doing Doctor Who stories because we make Doctor Who stories and that's what we do and it's not really about social commentary.

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You were saying earlier when we were recording, Todd, that you, like, I think you really like this story.

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I quite enjoy it and Nathan thinks it's terrible.

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Well, I think it's got some things going for it.

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But I think it has really serious problems that I think often go unacknowledged.

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I mean, I think this is a fairly highly regarded Colin Baker story.

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And I think there must be quite a few people for whom this is their favourite story.

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Uh, just get your shot glasses ready, but Sandra thinks that this is perhaps the only Colin Baker story that might be accorded the status of a classic.

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But I just think it has some flaws in it that really, really spoil that.

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And I want to start by referring to John Darr and Areta.

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Oh, dear God.

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Jason Connery.

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And I don't even know her name.

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I don't even want to know her name.

199
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:31.319
I don't think does she, she does eventually get a name in episode two.

200
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.359
No, no, no, her acting.

201
00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.740
Yeah, the actor, but Areta is just ancient Greek for virtue, I think.

202
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:39.299
And they're both blonde, aren't they?

203
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:40.200
So they're heroes.

204
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.660
She is Geraldine Alexander.

205
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:48.539
I think the thing with them is that they're so cardboard and wooden.

206
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.240
But listeners, I was just going to say that.

207
00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:55.380
I quite like the fact that they're so earnest beyond all.

208
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.519
Like, you know, they both have some speeches somewhere in one of their rooms.

209
00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:03.720
She in particular has this thing, which you could be reading from the telephone directory.

210
00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:09.000
You know, it's a really badly written speech and it's really poorly delivered.

211
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:11.759
And John Darr gets to do speeches as well.

212
00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:14.819
And I think the show is making fun of them.

213
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:24.599
I mean, they're both poor performances, and I know that Jason Connery has gone on to do other things, and I don't think he's necessarily a terrible actor, but he is terrible in this.

214
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:42.779
But the moment where he comes upon the cannibals in nappies, who really, really deserve to be mentioned to anyone who calls this story a classic, the moment he comes up to the cannibals in nappies and says, fellow prisoners, and then Colin shuts him down and tells him it's no time for political speeches.

215
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.859
I think that that's the moment where it becomes clear that they're being satirised.

216
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:51.119
Is it too late to change the name of the podcast for cannibals in now?

217
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:53.220
I just, okay.

218
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.599
So Ron Jones directed this.

219
00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:58.319
That is one of the most bizarre choices in the history of Doctor Who.

220
00:18:58.380 --> 00:18:59.700
Cannibals and nappies.

221
00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:06.599
And we do see them before that because Arak and Etta are watching them punch one another on television.

222
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:13.440
And when one of them is killed, the other one drags him back to his lair to eat, presumably later.

223
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:17.940
Which I just think's hilarious. actually sit there and I just laugh at it. just laugh at it.

224
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:24.000
What I find so odd about the cannibals in nappies is, I suppose it's about subverting expectation.

225
00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:35.400
You know, you might expect them to be physically fit if they're constantly killing people and eating them, but they're these 2 mid-50s building bank managers from Worthing. you know?

226
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:36.119
They're terrible.

227
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:37.319
It's an old choice.

228
00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:43.440
I like my cannibals in bright colours and lovely cardigans, I have to say.

229
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:47.039
Well, I think we'll get that in a couple of years time.

230
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:53.279
I actually think Jason Carey gets better. through this when he's not paired with her of the perm.

231
00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:58.019
Like that perm that she has makes her look at least 10 years older than him.

232
00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:59.099
I'm just going to say.

233
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:00.180
But it's very 80s though.

234
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.039
That's the thing. very period.

235
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:06.299
Besides those 2 performances, which I think are great.

236
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.779
I think Rondell and Maldak are both terrible as well.

237
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.519
I actually think they're quite good.

238
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.819
Rondo's killed quite quickly, which is a relief.

239
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:21.599
No, I quite like Owen Teal as Maldak because, you know, especially when the governor is appealing to him to let Perry go.

240
00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:24.779
There is some interiority there and he is thinking it over.

241
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:32.400
And thankfully, Owen Teal, who played him, has gone on to have a very long career and he's appeared in torchwood, but we won't hold that against him.

242
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:34.200
Actually, he's quite good in torture.

243
00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:34.980
He's in countryside.

244
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:35.819
Oh really?

245
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:40.559
He's the one who at the end when Gwen asks him why he's done what he's done.

246
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:42.900
He just says to her, because I enjoy it.

247
00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:49.319
And he's a, he's played a villain in a few things and he's, oh, actually, Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones.

248
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.819
He is Sir Alastair Thorne.

249
00:20:50.880 --> 00:21:12.599
John Snow's antagonist in the Knights Watch, and he is brilliant in it, because it is sometimes difficult for people to watch Game of Thrones, I won't spoil too much his role in season. 5 and 6, but he takes an action, which, as a viewer who likes John Snow as you're meant to, you immediately are opposed to him in that action.

250
00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:15.720
But when he explains his motivation for it.

251
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:22.680
An objective person will have to look at that and say, look, working with what you believe in the facts you have.

252
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:26.940
You can understand his action, and Owen T will plays out really well.

253
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.440
So he's become a very experienced actor.

254
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:32.400
In Jason Connery's defence, I believe this was his 1st television.

255
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:32.940
Right.

256
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:37.980
And it wasn't long after this that he started doing his Robin Hood series in which he is much better.

257
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:38.819
Right, okay.

258
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.140
And he plays Ian Fleming, I think, in something later in a film or something.

259
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:43.920
Is that a thing?

260
00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:45.720
wouldn't be at all surprised.

261
00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:46.920
Look, I think he's quite pretty.

262
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:52.259
And although he's only got one. 5 abs on each side, visible above those high waisted pants.

263
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:58.380
I think it's a terrible waste. is I'm just ignored it. all week.

264
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:00.180
I'm sorry.

265
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.119
Do carry on, Todd, and I'm sorry, dear listener.

266
00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:13.799
Like, we'll point it out the performances in Stellar, but neither is it like one that I, you know, I've ranted about other people, how empathetic they've been recently in the twin dilemma.

267
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.000
Like it's nowhere near that.

268
00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:20.039
But I think there's, I think that's because there's other people around that I really like.

269
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.839
I think Martin Jarvis is the governor.

270
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:25.319
His performance is amazing.

271
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:30.420
Yes. and his relationship with Perry and what Nicola has to do in those scenes and...

272
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.700
Seal.

273
00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:33.359
Yeah.

274
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.359
Abil Shabin is just amazing.

275
00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:36.960
I think.

276
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:39.599
So can we discuss each of them in turn?

277
00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:48.059
I really think Martin Jarvis lifts this. and he is probably going to be my favourite guest actor of the Colin Baker period.

278
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:49.380
I think he's just terrific.

279
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.579
He was one hell of a great monoptera all those years ago.

280
00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:56.759
Butler, an Invasion of the Dinosaurs.

281
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:58.619
He's really, really good here.

282
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.319
And people talk about the nobility of his character.

283
00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:03.720
But in fact, he's a really horrible person.

284
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:14.339
And he is kind of Tony Blair, who's, you know, going to rescue us from decades of Tory government because he's utterly lacking in principle.

285
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:21.660
He is prepared to organise executions in order to take the heat off himself.

286
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:26.640
He's completely happy to sell torture videos to other planets.

287
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:31.259
And yet when Seal appears to be enjoying the videos, he's watching.

288
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:35.640
He has the gall to kind of sneer at seal.

289
00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:48.539
And one of the things that I maybe like about this story is in fact that Varos is left at his mercy at the end of it, and I have no confidence that the doctor has solved that planet's problems.

290
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:57.299
See, I think Martin Jarvis's governor character goes on a little bit of a journey because there is the seed in his mind.

291
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:01.440
At the beginning of the story that what is happening on Baros is wrong.

292
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:09.240
Like when it backs suggests the torture method and execution method for John Darr to neutralise the cue switch and build up the laser.

293
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:19.680
The governor is visibly disgusted by that idea and the chief, who's played rather wonderfully by Forbes Collins, who says, the chief is great.

294
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:21.660
And who's the other guy with the Quillum?

295
00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:22.980
Quillum, Nicholas Chagrin.

296
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.720
I think he I think he's very good too.

297
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:28.619
I actually think that he is one of the worst things about this story.

298
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:35.759
But when the chief objects to the execution, it's simply because, oh, it'll be too quick.

299
00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:36.359
Too quick.

300
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:37.980
No, no one will notice.

301
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:44.339
Later on, when the governor has been chatting to Perry, it shared a little joke with her about Sill's translation unit.

302
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.339
Like, don't tell him this translator doesn't work as my only source of amusement.

303
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.160
And Perry begins to see this could be a sympathetic person.

304
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:57.660
And then he says, we'll use the girl to get to the doctor and she says, I thought you were better than these other brutes.

305
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.759
He is visibly hurt by that.

306
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:05.460
And you said earlier, Nathan, that perhaps the doctor doesn't have much of an impact in this story.

307
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:17.759
Perhaps he doesn't, but I believe that the governor's changing character is because for the 1st time in his life, he's met someone who cares for others more than herself and her own self-preservation.

308
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.480
And I think that slowly changes him over the course of the 2nd episode.

309
00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:37.500
I would hope that that's intentional, that that's really visible, because one of the glaring problems with this story, is that it seems to me that if the doctor and Perry had gone somewhere else, that things would have played out pretty much the same as they did.

310
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:51.420
The only reason that the governor is able to kind of change the political system and throw off their oppressors, like the Galatron mining corporation has been ripping them off and oppressing them and buying their stuff cheaply.

311
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:59.519
In fact, the only reason that that situation changes is, firstly, the governor persuades Maldak to let him escape.

312
00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:15.960
And then secondly, a series of messages appear on the screen saying that by chance we found another source of Zeiton 7 on biosculptor, and now you just have to pay the people of Varos as much money as they ask.

313
00:26:16.019 --> 00:26:25.559
So, in fact, the doctor has absolutely nothing to do with that, and the plot is completely resolved by a few messages from the Galatron mining corporation appearing on the screen.

314
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:30.539
And even when that happens, Martin Jarvis is so stupid that he only increases.

315
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.559
He's seen that message and he increases the asking price from 7 to 20.

316
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:36.779
When it was like, pay any price.

317
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.619
I'd be going up to, you know, a 1000, 2000 a unit, you know.

318
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:45.660
So the doctor absolutely has no role in resolving anything that happens here.

319
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:52.980
And that is a big problem under Eric, say, would generally, and I think this is the worst example of it.

320
00:26:53.039 --> 00:27:04.859
It's a shame because it would have been very simple to solve it by saying that the doctor sent a message to somewhere he knew had Ziton and said, hey, tell this planet you've got, tell this corporation you've got it to take the heat off this planet.

321
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.339
You know, that would have been a simple way to fix that.

322
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:17.940
In fact, the big hero moment where he resolves things is where he instructs John Darner ranted to fling poisonous vines at Quillum and the chief.

323
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:18.960
Do you know what I mean?

324
00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:21.299
And and that's unpleasant.

325
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.339
That's not particularly heroic.

326
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.480
He doesn't actually do anything and he encourages them to kill some people.

327
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:34.500
And I just think that, The show now has a big problem with the doctor being a hero.

328
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.259
That Seward doesn't believe in heroes.

329
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:39.660
No one in this story is a good guy at all.

330
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:45.059
And now that's not even the doctor, you know, not even the doctor gets to fix the problem.

331
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.220
And we saw it in season 21.

332
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:54.960
It's not purely a Colin Baker phenomenon, but it's increasingly something that the show does and I think it's a, it's a bad mistake.

333
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.400
It just becomes the doctor turns up somewhere and a whole bunch of science fiction things happen and then he leaves.

334
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:03.359
Do you know what I mean?

335
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:08.640
It's no longer the doctor turns up somewhere, overthrows the government in an evening and then he leaves.

336
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.000
I love those stories, you know, the show has no shape.

337
00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:15.960
There's no reason for us to be interested in what the doctor's doing.

338
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:24.900
And say it certainly doesn't think that because everything's about these environments that he's created and the tertiary characters that he's peopled them with.

339
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.299
Very insightful.

340
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:34.859
I think that's a really good take. on the core structure of Eric Saywood's Time as script editor.

341
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:39.900
One of the things is that the doctor's constantly going on a holiday, right?

342
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:40.619
Yeah, yeah.

343
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:43.380
And I can see where you're coming from with that.

344
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:54.240
I do think that without them arriving, then John Dar wouldn't have got away and a series of events wouldn't have occurred to put the governor in the position for change to happen, right?

345
00:28:54.299 --> 00:29:02.220
So even though their impact on what's going on is quite minimal.

346
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:05.819
Yeah, I mean, you need to structure the story around the doctor solving a problem.

347
00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:07.680
That doesn't worry me.

348
00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:08.220
Yeah.

349
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:08.700
Okay?

350
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:10.319
listeners, it doesn't worry me.

351
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:13.920
I like the fact that they're there involved with these trials.

352
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:23.759
It's been commented on, and things happen, and yeah, maybe they haven't had the impact, but I enjoy, I enjoy so many of the characters.

353
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:29.400
I enjoy Colin's performance in this once they get to the, or even in the Tartar scene.

354
00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:34.140
I still think, you know, he's doing a good job with situation that's not great.

355
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.059
Two of my favourite sequences or 3 of them.

356
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.339
One is the joke of Perrier at the end.

357
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.339
I love that, which I didn't get as a kid, and I just think it's lovely.

358
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:42.839
And there's a warmth there with the characters.

359
00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:45.000
Once they have their bitch scene, oh, this is the thing.

360
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.759
Once they have their bit of tetar tent over and done with in episode one.

361
00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:50.640
You know, when they both fling their heads around the, what is it?

362
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:54.299
Around the wall, going, hi, you know, there's more room.

363
00:29:54.299 --> 00:29:55.140
Yeah, that's really cute.

364
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.440
There's more warmth and throughout, you know, he is concerned about Perry.

365
00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:03.240
I think one of the biggest criticisms of the era is his lack of concern for her and their relationship.

366
00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:06.420
But I again think in this, that it's generally quite good.

367
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.420
I mean, and even in the last story, it is quite good.

368
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:17.519
I think I said about the twin dilemma that it actually leads up to a climax where we see the doctor who has been really horrible express concern for Perry.

369
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:18.359
Do you know what I mean?

370
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:21.059
I think that that's something that they try to turn around quite quickly.

371
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.220
So they're 2 of my favourite moments.

372
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:28.980
The other one I really love, and you probably will disagree with me is the hanging scene.

373
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.920
And I really like Colin's performance leading up to it.

374
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.180
I think it's wonderful.

375
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:41.220
And I always forget about it, like I'm going, why is a doctor acting like, it's just slightly, there's something just slightly not right, and he's twigged as to what's going on.

376
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.500
Again, Collins come in.

377
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:48.839
He's got the energy of a new doctor, you know, he knows what he wants to do, right?

378
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:51.480
Even if the writing is not always where it needs to be.

379
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:56.279
And, you know, I say to any naysayers out there, you watch that scene.

380
00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:07.619
The bit where Martin Jarvis asks him, like, if he wants to make a statement or have a last request or something, and he's not listening, like, he's just pretending not to listen and then he sort of suddenly reacts.

381
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:08.400
I think he's really good.

382
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:19.619
Again, I think he does give a sort of fairly unfortunate political speech, which is poorly written, the poor quality of which is only kind of amplified by the theatricality of his performance.

383
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.319
But I think he's really doctor-ish in that scene.

384
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:27.059
And there's something like he does, he nails doctor-ish.

385
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:33.539
For me, he nails doctorish in a way that his predecessant didn't do for me.

386
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.200
He didn't very often for me either, but he does sometimes, I think.

387
00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:43.859
Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't, but I'm just saying in this context. having gone through 3 years or not doctor-ish.

388
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:46.200
I've latched onto this as a kid, right?

389
00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:52.380
And, and those doctrish moments throughout this season are there for me, right?

390
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:58.380
And the other flaws, writing character or whatever, don't have much of an impact.

391
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:03.359
I mean, I quite like a lot of the dark humour and the sort of some of the put downs and that sort of thing.

392
00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:03.839
That's me.

393
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:06.180
I actually quite like that in movies and that sort of thing.

394
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.480
And I know that a lot of fans don't really like that and it's not for them.

395
00:32:09.539 --> 00:32:15.960
The whole thing with Colin being a bit more, Colin's doctor being a bit more unpredictable and a bit more violent.

396
00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:25.740
I think is a crystalisation of trying to address the problems with the Davison characterisation and the gentleness of that.

397
00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:34.619
A scene I love so much in this story is when Perry and Aretta are under that transmogrification beam, and John Dar is...

398
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:40.559
I won't say beside himself because Jason Connery doesn't quite convey that, but is very concerned and shouting.

399
00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:43.619
And the doctor's just having a nice conversation with Quillerman.

400
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.759
Oh, and how does this work?

401
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.519
And, oh, and what kind of laser are you using?

402
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.880
And then grabs a gun and points it at Quilum.

403
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:55.319
And Quilum's like, well, you need me to operate the machine and the doctor's like, oh, it's that machine, is it?

404
00:32:55.380 --> 00:32:56.759
and blows up the machine.

405
00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.700
I think that is a wonderfully doctor-ish thing to do.

406
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:08.700
I don't really have a problem with the doctor pointing a gun at someone as a dramatic device and something that often happens in the 80s.

407
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:13.859
The doctor's pointed a gun at a few people, and it is used as a dramatic device to varying effect.

408
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:19.200
I think the best time it's been used is when the doctor then gives his gun to Commander Vorsak in Warriors of the Deep.

409
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:27.000
But I think this is a wonderful heroic moment on the doctor's part in that it shows how different he is to his predecessor.

410
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.440
And also shows the lengths he's willing to go to to rescue Perry.

411
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:34.619
The thing with the vines, it is.

412
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:53.579
An uncomfortably violent moment from the doctor, but the other thing is, the doctor has always stated he is averse to violence, but he has no problem with people performing violence on his behalf, even if we were to look at the 2nd doctor who is arguably the least violent doctor we've had.

413
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.359
Except for the time that he shoots all those ice Warriors.

414
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:59.099
Shoots all those nice warriors.

415
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.019
Rams are lawyers head into a desk, et cetera.

416
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:02.400
But that's the thing.

417
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:06.539
As soon as he's got Jamie, he's quite happy for Jamie to run around clobbering people and stabbing people.

418
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:15.539
The 4th doctor says to Leila, stop stabbing people about 3 weeks after he's punched a chauffeur unconscious in a gravel pit.

419
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.519
So the doctor has never been averse to violence.

420
00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:26.699
And in that scene with the vines, I think it's very important to note that the doctor does not approach Quillum and the chief.

421
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:36.599
It's almost the whole Russell T. Davis 10th doctor thing of the doctor has to walk up to the villain and say, you need to leave or I'm going to do something.

422
00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:38.880
That's what's happening here.

423
00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:42.659
The doctor is in an area that they know have the poison vines.

424
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.940
How does he know the vines are poisonous?

425
00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:49.380
Yeah, I believe he identifies the scientific name of them when they walk in.

426
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:50.940
He says, oh, it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

427
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:59.880
Even though the doctor orchestrates the trap, he is very clearly, He's very clearly upset that he has to pull it.

428
00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:04.079
You know, he is very quiet and subdued afterwards and let's get away from here.

429
00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:14.579
And there's the infamous acid bath scene, which, as Colin says, if you watch it, the doctor with the with the trolly bed between him and the attendant, Colin is pulling.

430
00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:17.519
It really doesn't look like that.

431
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:19.199
And I did keep an eye out for it.

432
00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:20.699
It looks like he's trying to push the guy.

433
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:21.900
No, he doesn't.

434
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:27.420
He's actually trying to defend himself, and that's what I see every time as a kid, I saw that.

435
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:33.119
One of the things that's really annoyed me over the years is when I came into fandom, there was this thing where it says the doctor pushes these people into the acid path.

436
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:34.619
Well, no, he gets up.

437
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:42.179
The 1st person is a fool and gets startled and falls in and then his assistant just turns around and starts to go for the doctor and the doctor's actually defending himself.

438
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.619
I see that every single time.

439
00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:46.860
And then the other person pulls the other guy in.

440
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:56.820
That is what happens, but I think I think that the fight scenes in this story are ineptly directed just generally, and it's Ron Jones, for God's sake.

441
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.780
He can't direct fights.

442
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.420
He can direct traffic, though, because there's those little cards.

443
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.199
But it does look like the doctor's trying to push him in.

444
00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:14.760
And I think that there, it's a mistake to show the guy, with all his skin dissolving off, coming up to pull the other guy in, because A, why would he do that and be like yuck?

445
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:17.159
Well, he's not trying to pull the other guy in.

446
00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:18.360
He's just trying to pull himself out.

447
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:19.440
You're desperate.

448
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:20.219
You're grasping.

449
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.400
I think the biggest problem with that scene is, do you mind if I don't join you?

450
00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:32.820
That is cruel. and callous, and that is the complete opposite of the scene I just mentioned where the doctor is upset with what he's had to do to Quillem and the chief.

451
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:36.539
He does a moment of little horrified acting where he thinks about it for a second.

452
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.280
Yeah, but the thing is, it's not really horrified.

453
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:40.139
It's more, ooh, I'm not eating that.

454
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:44.400
You know, it's kind of mild irritation. disagree with you.

455
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:45.300
Okay, fair enough.

456
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:46.920
I think he downplays it.

457
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:48.179
And it's a dark moment.

458
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:55.079
I'm not going to disagree, but he could have been what people think, like really like enjoying that.

459
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:58.800
I actually think it's his way of sort of trying to justify in his head what's just happened.

460
00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:00.840
That's my personal reading of it.

461
00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:04.860
And look, of course, should it have been shot the way it was shot?

462
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:06.179
should it really have happened?

463
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:07.920
Probably not, okay?

464
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:23.280
But I remember as a kid watching various Hollywood movies and a lot of henchmen get dispatched in sort of cruel sort of humourous ways, like, you know, sucked into aeroplane propellers, and then the hero has some sort of witty line.

465
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:28.500
And I can sort of see, listeners, I'm sorry, I'm just going to give up here and just say, look, I've got a dark sense of humour.

466
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:29.639
Every time I watch this scene.

467
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:31.199
I had no sympathy for those attendants.

468
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:34.260
I think they're absolute fools. and no, I'm sorry.

469
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:34.920
I'm sorry.

470
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:42.119
I know you're laughing, Nathan, but I really just, I just sit there and I just actually just go, well, you're an idiot, you know?

471
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:42.900
I'm sorry.

472
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:44.699
You're brought out upon yourself.

473
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:45.960
There you go, woman.

474
00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:47.519
You gonna take the doctor now, well, good luck.

475
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:50.159
And I have no problem at all with him even saying.

476
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:58.739
I'm just imagining those 2 attendants having a chat 5 minutes before that saying, so I asked for them to put a rail around this pool of acid and they're not going to.

477
00:37:58.800 --> 00:37:59.400
Do you know why?

478
00:37:59.460 --> 00:37:59.820
Why?

479
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.559
Because they say we'll be leaning on it.

480
00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:05.159
Oh, well, that would have been wonderful to have a scene like that.

481
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:07.500
Divine scene actually I had more problem with.

482
00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:10.920
That's a contradict because all of those people die.

483
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:13.380
Even the 2 in the background.

484
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:15.900
They didn't need to necessarily the 2 other guards.

485
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:18.900
It could have just been those horrible 2 that have caused a lot of problems.

486
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:34.139
But, you know, in context of the new series where Russell T has gone about the doctor uses other people as weapons, it's just, you know, and the doctor doesn't do it all the time, whether it be, you know, blowing up fleets of things or whatever, he does use other people and that survives them.

487
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.579
And rather darkly.

488
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:40.679
Had the chief and Quillum been left alive, they're in Seal's pocket.

489
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:44.820
With them gone, still has no power on Varos.

490
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.019
Okay.

491
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.679
But I mean, he is then undermined by the Galatron mining corporation anyway.

492
00:38:49.739 --> 00:38:50.579
Yeah, exactly.

493
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:55.980
Interestingly enough, over on the A team, which is still in competition with Doctor Who at this point.

494
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.559
We do have lots of guns.

495
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:10.980
The big thing, though, about the A-Team, and the thing everyone comments on is the 18 themselves never shoot people, they only shoot cars, they shoot cars off the road, and then when the car goes off the road, they have to have a shot showing everyone getting out of the car.

496
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:21.960
So it's like the A team's thing was violence and explosions, but very visibly showing, yeah, no one's died from this, which is exactly the kind of thing Eric Saywood argues against.

497
00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:29.519
He says, if you're going to fire a gun, you have to show the violent impact of that act to get across the firing guns is bad.

498
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:32.699
See, that's why I just think you don't do it in Doctor Who.

499
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:38.820
There's no blood in New Who just about for the 1st like for the whole Russell T. Davis era.

500
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:43.619
I think we get a bit of blood where the master gets killed in last of the time lords.

501
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:45.900
There's still terror and violence.

502
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:46.739
There's stakes.

503
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.119
There's people who get killed.

504
00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:54.420
But there's just a kind of relentless nastiness to the program at the moment, which I don't like.

505
00:39:54.480 --> 00:40:01.019
And there is occasionally humour, but, but Eric Saywood can't write good jokes.

506
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:07.440
I think the best joke is the ad-libbed Perrier joke, which is just the doctor being sort of rather sweet and silly.

507
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.739
I think there's something unpleasant about this story.

508
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:15.719
The other joke that was cut, which is rather terrible.

509
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.639
You can find it on the DVD.

510
00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.219
So originally the whole, what are we going to do?

511
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:23.760
Dano thing with the static screen wasn't the final shot.

512
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:29.159
There was a shot back in the TARDIS with the doctor saying to Perry, look, are you feeling okay after what you've been through?

513
00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:34.260
And she says, well, aside from the residual effects of foul pest, I think I'll be fine.

514
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.260
That's been our 2nd foul pest joke of the era.

515
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:44.340
Which leads the doctor then to say, well, so long as you stay away from millet and cuttlefish, and they have a Scooby-Doo laugh, and the titles cut in.

516
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:47.460
And it's not Colin and Nicola's fault.

517
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:51.059
It's a horrible script and it really undermines the whole, what are we going to do?

518
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:54.059
Dunno ending, which is which is lovely and memorable.

519
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:58.320
I actually like how both episodes end with a shot of a television screen.

520
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:01.920
You know, one with a cliffhanger on it and one with static.

521
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:05.519
And, you know, the static at the end just makes us think of the hiatus.

522
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:06.360
Like, what's going to happen?

523
00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:08.159
We've got no Doctor Who for 18 months.

524
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:08.940
What are we going to do?

525
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.199
ahead of ourselves.

526
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:20.880
So we do, of course, have. who I think is actually pretty good and I'm not surprised that he comes back next year.

527
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:23.280
I think he's sort of funny.

528
00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:25.380
I think the laugh that he does is really good.

529
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.980
He looks like a turd that's been working out, doesn't he?

530
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:29.400
Really?

531
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:36.840
He's got a pointy end, you know, and he's sort of a bit some upper body sort of muscles and stuff.

532
00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:38.519
He is proper buff like.

533
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.039
You're a lying liar.

534
00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:47.699
And I love the fact that he finds her revoltingly ugly.

535
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:51.780
Like, it's just, I just find that so funny because like, she's a beautiful woman.

536
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:56.820
And also, you know, throughout this era, she's going to be sleazed on by aliens.

537
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.099
Mestor thought she was really hot stuff.

538
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:04.139
So it's kind of nice, a little bit of a relief, in fact, that Seal doesn't find her attractive as well.

539
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.019
And then he's got his buffer attendance with him, you know?

540
00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:08.639
I just think that's appalling.

541
00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:13.139
And is it the only time that black people appear in this season?

542
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:18.599
It may be the only, one of them gets to say the word right.

543
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:26.280
So it may be the only black person with the speaking part, and all they are is slaves in fetish gear.

544
00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:33.840
And, you know, we complained about that in terror of the autons because of poor old Roy Stewart.

545
00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.940
But, you know, it's much later.

546
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.679
It's the 80s now and that's not really defensible, I think.

547
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:44.039
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, it is a problem for the season.

548
00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:52.860
I don't think it's a problem for this story because it very quickly tells you through visual identification, through the fact that these are 2 black actors.

549
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:56.699
It's only a few years after roots, which was, of course, watershed television.

550
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.099
It is telling you that Sill has slaves and that is wrong.

551
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:02.039
And therefore he is an villainous character.

552
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:05.880
I had not considered that these are the only 2 black actors in the season.

553
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:09.119
And I agree with you that that is appalling representation.

554
00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:14.880
I hadn't considered either and I think that they wouldn't even have considered it.

555
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:16.440
No, but that's a problem.

556
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:17.639
Like, they just didn't think about it.

557
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:18.599
No.

558
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:20.280
And that's what I'm saying is the problem.

559
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:27.960
The problem is that we have 2 slaves to cast will cast black people and that's the only time we think of doing that this year.

560
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:37.199
And the 80s, Doctor Who isn't that great in the 80s, as far as representation of sort of minorities is concerned.

561
00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:41.099
And it does get a bit better when Sylvester McCoy comes along.

562
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:47.039
But then there are sort of slightly embarrassing token things like the ringmastery and greater show of the galaxy.

563
00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:50.579
But I do think that it's not really good enough.

564
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:52.800
And those guys too.

565
00:43:53.039 --> 00:44:03.360
They're in the backgrounds are shots, and they're just staring into the distance, you know, they're barely people, their scenery, and I really think that that's bad.

566
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:11.400
And I think it's no better next year when it turns out that Thoros Beta is the planet of black people who carry slugs around the place.

567
00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:18.000
I will say getting slightly ahead of ourselves next year, though, that Frax and Madame Catriona are characters.

568
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.179
Oh, yeah, yeah. in a way that these guys don't get in a way.

569
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:21.719
Yeah, exactly.

570
00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:29.340
A word on Nabil Shabin, of course, who has been a Doctor Who fan since the Heartnol era.

571
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.000
His 1st Doctor Who story was the 1st Dalek story while he was in hospital.

572
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:33.780
Right.

573
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:40.920
So he is an actor with a condition called osteogenesis imperfectica, which meant his legs didn't develop.

574
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:41.519
Right.

575
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:44.460
Um, the slug tail are his legs.

576
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.880
So, for me as I look down.

577
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:52.440
I'm looking at the top of my thighs, that is essentially the extent of his legs.

578
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:58.500
So yeah, he was in that and I think he kind of describes it as being like a mermaid tale.

579
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:03.480
And initially he was going to be submerged, partially submerged in that tank.

580
00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:07.019
But they couldn't figure out a way to make it work, so they just perched him on top instead.

581
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:11.880
I like how he calls upon the attendance to moisturise him, though.

582
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

583
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.500
I need to look the best, my best for the sort of upcoming conference call.

584
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.679
I find the heat of this Varos type world.

585
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:25.380
Most unpleasant.

586
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.179
I think he's I think he's fun.

587
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:29.400
I think he's the most Doctor Who-ish thing in the story.

588
00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:36.300
And, well, it's kind of the thing we would come to expect from David Tennant in that he's an immense fan of the show.

589
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:41.880
So he puts in 5000% into his performance and is thus magnificent.

590
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:43.380
Yeah, the laugh is really great.

591
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:47.039
And it was a great idea to end episode one on that laugh.

592
00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:48.119
I love that.

593
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:48.960
It's wonderful.

594
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:52.679
And it is, it's the sort of thing you can imitate in the playground.

595
00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:54.539
Oh, great, it's precisely.

596
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:55.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

597
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:57.420
We, you know, it sticks in my mind to this day.

598
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:01.559
Yeah, he's the 1st imitable villain and indeed alien.

599
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:03.900
In ages.

600
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.880
I'm trying to think of another villain.

601
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:06.239
You might.

602
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:11.460
Well, I think, I remember you saying, Todd, that you and your sister would imitate the Mara.

603
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:13.260
Tegan's Mara voice.

604
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.559
Yeah, that's more of a person rather than, yeah, yeah.

605
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.739
We used to, we used to do lots of skibbus and tarpoc, I think.

606
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.679
Back in the 80s, I seem to remember.

607
00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:23.519
Excellent.

608
00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:24.360
Skim us.

609
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:31.139
But I don't think we didn't we didn't do them on the playground. like, you know, but this was the 1st one, you know.

610
00:46:31.739 --> 00:46:36.480
The John Nathan Turner era, really, that, you know, you're doing in the playground.

611
00:46:36.539 --> 00:46:38.940
Yeah, they haven't done great monsters, have they?

612
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:43.440
And I think everyone's since then, like in the new series, they're very careful.

613
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:54.000
And Moffat in particular is particularly good at introducing and creating new high concept, you know, monsters and aliens, but it's really not something that the program's been interested in for a while.

614
00:46:54.059 --> 00:46:58.800
And still is more of a character than a, than a race of aliens, really.

615
00:46:58.920 --> 00:46:59.880
Yeah.

616
00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:14.699
Although we will get to see more of his race next year because JNT was so taken with Nabil's performance because really Nabil creates the mentors here. and creates the idea that they're this ruthless mercantile race.

617
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:23.219
Shortly before production wrapped, Jonathan Turner sent a memo to, I believe it was the props department saying, please retain the costume and the water tank.

618
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.619
I intend to revisit the character.

619
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:30.960
And they disobeyed because he comes back in a different costume than without the water team.

620
00:47:31.019 --> 00:47:33.599
They did keep it, but they decided to do a new right.

621
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:34.260
Yeah.

622
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.579
So yeah, the stuff was kept.

623
00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:38.519
I think the 2nd costume is a little bit more successful.

624
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:43.559
There's a sort of Finn thing around his face, which obscures the join.

625
00:47:43.619 --> 00:47:49.800
Yeah, there's a bit of a problem with the helmet and the face and all of that sort of thing and I think they do a better job of it next time.

626
00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:52.500
I'm not sure about the bright green next time.

627
00:47:52.559 --> 00:48:12.480
But, you know, he, it's not the costume so much as the performance that's fun and it is, you know, it's a fairly bog standard satire of sort of slimy mid 80s capitalism and that's something that will be played up a lot more actually in his next appearance next year.

628
00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:14.579
So speaking of costumes.

629
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:18.960
The doctor actually gets out of his coach during this story, like for quite a bit of it.

630
00:48:19.019 --> 00:48:22.199
I like the fact that the coat's not there for a bit, you know?

631
00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:26.519
I think the coat works better when it's on alien worlds.

632
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:28.079
I know you didn't like it last week.

633
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:33.360
But you see, last week I didn't have a problem with it because you were in the tombs and even when they were running around London.

634
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:39.599
They weren't interacting with many people, so it was just their own little subplot, so I didn't actually have a problem with that.

635
00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:43.500
And I like the fact that it gets ditched for a while here, which is a good thing, but yeah.

636
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:53.820
The costume that's left isn't very flattering because it's got those big yellow pants that are worn up too high and then a big white shirt.

637
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:56.820
And so he's wearing pale colours that really don't flash him.

638
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:04.860
And again, the 2nd doctor, 3rd doctor in a row, whose braces have question marks on them, which I just think is awful.

639
00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:06.599
So I don't like that.

640
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:17.760
I'm going to be a big fan next week of the Flash's Mac that he steals and wears in Mark of the Rani, and I would have liked to have seen him wear that a little bit further.

641
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:22.320
And actually, I suspect that Colin would have been more comfortable in that as well.

642
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:23.159
Probably would have too.

643
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:30.480
There is actually a very hopeful moment where he starts trying on Quillum's clothes, but gets interrupted just a little too soon, thankfully.

644
00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:31.920
Oh, can we?

645
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.840
Unfortunately, I should say.

646
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:34.920
You don't like him?

647
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:42.239
No, I think that the standard disfigured scientist guy is tired.

648
00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:46.139
You know, he's kind of a 5th rate Davros, really.

649
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:50.340
I'm a bit exhausted by how he's coded as gay.

650
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:59.159
There's extravagant hand movements, the way that he speaks, and that famous line, you know, I want to hear him scream until I am deaf with pleasure.

651
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:00.659
Like he's camp.

652
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.059
So I don't like the performance.

653
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:11.039
He's got terrible commander data hair, which I guess is just part of the period, and I don't know what he's doing there.

654
00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:12.119
Do you know what I mean?

655
00:50:12.179 --> 00:50:15.420
I mean, his job is to run that transmogrification thing.

656
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:18.659
But I think the transmogrification thing is a mistake.

657
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:22.559
It's kind of a sci-fi B movie conceit.

658
00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:26.880
And they were never, ever going to be able to pull it off in a convincing way.

659
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:31.500
And so perry with the gloves with feathers sewn onto them.

660
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:33.659
It just looks stewed.

661
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:36.119
I think those look amazing.

662
00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:41.099
To talk about Quillum for a second, his performance changes when his mask gets ripped off.

663
00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:45.300
When he has the mask on, he's very calm and very controlled.

664
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:48.840
As soon as the mask is ripped off, he's ranting and raving.

665
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:56.760
And I think it ties in with that thing I was saying earlier about, is the 6 doctor, a character with actually really low self-esteem, who's acting out.

666
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:58.380
And I think that's the case with Quillum.

667
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:09.360
I think no one has seen him without his mask before and now he is embarrassed and fighting because he's got this disfigurement, which is silly in and of itself.

668
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:11.519
You know, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

669
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:12.539
You would learn to live with it.

670
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:23.940
But the transmogrification, especially the makeup on Geraldine Alexander as a retta, the reptilian makeup, it is Star Trek the next generation level, which everyone was holding.

671
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:26.159
Maybe season one, Star Trek the next generation level.

672
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:29.400
But I really like Nicolas Bird makeup as well.

673
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:33.420
Maybe it's just an eye of the beholder thing, but I think it's done really well.

674
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:37.920
Physical disfigurement and transmogrification is an obsession for Philip Martin.

675
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:39.659
It'll come up in his next Doctor Who story.

676
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.059
He writes a story for Big Finish where it comes up again.

677
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:47.159
Much like Robert Holmes with Space Pirates, Power of Kroll, and K's of Andrazani.

678
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:49.079
Philip Martin writes one story for Doctor Who.

679
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:53.340
I don't mind the transmogrification at all.

680
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:58.440
Yeah, the glove hand looks a bit, but the rest of it, I think, is quite well done.

681
00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:02.219
I never saw the gay code of stuff in Gryllm's performance as a kid.

682
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.380
I just didn't see it and I still didn't pick up on it now.

683
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.300
I don't think it's necessarily there.

684
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:10.800
Can I say one thing in defence of one performance that people were talking about earlier?

685
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:17.519
I quite like Areta's Info Dumps at the beginning of episode one.

686
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.559
I love her scene with Quillum.

687
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:23.340
Or something truly loathsome such as you.

688
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:34.139
It's so Shakespearean, but I also really love her scene with Rondall because it is the unfortunate thing, oh, she has to say things like, you know, the descendants of the officers still rule.

689
00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:41.639
It's an unfortunate line, but I believe the emotion she puts into it, and I believe the emotion that Rondall responds with.

690
00:52:41.699 --> 00:52:48.179
I think having a character called Rondle is a mistake in a series when you've already established the word roundel.

691
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:51.840
It could have been called fondle.

692
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:54.000
Fondle.

693
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:55.559
No, that wasn't an instruction.

694
00:52:55.619 --> 00:52:58.440
Although, you know, with him, I would.

695
00:52:58.500 --> 00:53:00.900
Anyway, um, he's dead now.

696
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.639
Have some respect, Brandon.

697
00:53:02.699 --> 00:53:06.300
It's actually better than a lot of other info dumps in the era.

698
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:09.780
But Ira has a tendency towards info dumps.

699
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:12.960
I mean, we're going to hit the Nadir of that in a few stories.

700
00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:15.599
Oh, 500, obviously.

701
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:16.920
It's not necessary.

702
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:17.880
Do you know what I mean?

703
00:53:17.940 --> 00:53:18.900
It's not necessary.

704
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.239
They're writing down to the audience.

705
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:31.079
And the syntax of them is so deadening, you know, that example, something truly loathsome such as you, like, who would say that?

706
00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:35.880
It doesn't need to be supernaturalistic, but it doesn't need to be quite so awkward.

707
00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:46.800
And next week it's going to get worse in a story that I think is less unpleasant than this one, but it has much more florid and preposterous dialogue than this one does.

708
00:53:46.860 --> 00:53:48.480
Yeah, her performance.

709
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:51.000
I'm sorry, no, it just doesn't sell it.

710
00:53:51.059 --> 00:53:52.500
I'm sorry, it just doesn't print.

711
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:56.400
I mean, I think she just becomes a peril monkey after that point.

712
00:53:56.460 --> 00:53:59.219
Yeah, she identifies the Gigi fly.

713
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.619
She screams John Darr a lot.

714
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:05.340
She doesn't stop Perry wandering off and getting caught in the buggy.

715
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:09.960
Those buggies, you can tell when they've been sped up on the video disc.

716
00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:15.599
And yet they keep, they come back at least twice in the series in different forms.

717
00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:16.500
It's ridiculous.

718
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.019
They're back in Happiness Patrol.

719
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:20.039
When else have they back?

720
00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:23.579
I believe they are, I believe they are adapted in mysterious planet.

721
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:31.800
Oh, actually, I mean, they're cute, but they're ridiculous. but they're ridiculous. but I don't mind them.

722
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:34.679
There's an attempt to make it seem a bit less studio-ish.

723
00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:35.460
Do you know what I mean?

724
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:36.900
Yeah, rather than just drive vehicles around.

725
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:40.800
It's like, it's like the horses in the studio in the gunfighters, you know?

726
00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:43.619
So this story, ratings.

727
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:54.780
7.2 and 7 million, which is, you know, pretty much in line with previous, but what's concerning is the placing, which is 108th and 110th.

728
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.219
So obviously it's not even in the top 100.

729
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:57.900
With 7 million.

730
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:02.099
You know, and previous seasons with 7 or 7.5 million.

731
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:03.960
It's like, you know, in the 80s or whatever.

732
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:14.460
Looking at Pete's ratings and the ratings here is that a lot of Peter's episodes are either 7.6 or 6.6. there's this 1000000 gap.

733
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:18.900
And the 7.6 is, when he has like one around 7 million, it tends to be lower.

734
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:24.179
So I reckon there's a lot of television shows, that are between like 7000000 and about 7.6.

735
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:33.659
And if you hit the bottom scale of that, you'll suddenly push down a lot, whereas I think there is a big difference between 7000000 and getting 7.6 million.

736
00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:35.579
I think there's a lot of shows that are probably in there.

737
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:38.460
Is Doc 2 going out, it's going out at 520.

738
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:47.159
See, maybe the fact that it is earlier means that there might be, you know, a few 100,000 viewers that aren't there.

739
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:49.320
It is sort of too early, isn't it?

740
00:55:49.380 --> 00:55:53.460
Yeah, and I think at this stage, they're still pitching the scripts for a later time slot.

741
00:55:53.519 --> 00:56:01.559
Yeah, it does seem unusual to have people fall into baths of acid at sort of quarter to six. on a weekend night.

742
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:05.940
Look, I just want to say, you've brought up a lot of interesting points, Nathan.

743
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.800
I have real respect for your insights.

744
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:22.260
I think the biggest thing that you've brought up here is the fact that the doctor's impact is minimal. and the fact that the slave guards are black men and that and I never even thought about. the only the only the only black actors in the season.

745
00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:32.940
For me, watching this, again, in order, the biggest problem of the era so far is that each story has tried to do something new and not quite succeeded.

746
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:46.320
But I feel like at this point in the Davis and era, we'd had Castro Valver, Fort Doomsday and Kinder, and of those, I would only say Kinder is the most inventive of those.

747
00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:52.739
Whereas twin dilemma, for all its fault, Attack of the Simon and this, are all incredibly inventive.

748
00:56:52.800 --> 00:57:01.739
Possibly to the detriment of the story, but I think that's possibly why I prefer Colin's era to Peters, and I'll discover that more as I go along.

749
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.820
But Collins era, if nothing else, is always inventive.

750
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:36.780
Well, dear listeners, we have refuelled on Argonite/spectrox/methane/ziton 7/ Tesla's electric motor, so we'll be taking off from the planet Varos.

751
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.800
Now, heading to Cube Gardens in the 19th century.

752
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:42.539
It's going to be a great trip.

753
00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:43.739
I'm so looking forward to it.

754
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:46.019
Do come back next week for Mark of the Rani.

755
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:52.380
You can find us online at Flightthrough Entirety.sexy, Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

756
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:53.699
Over on Bondfinger.

757
00:57:53.760 --> 00:58:00.480
We have the complete run of Sean Connery and Roger Moore James Bond films, as well as special guest stars, David Nevin and George Lazenby.

758
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:01.500
Thats in the films, by the way.

759
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:03.480
They didn't come watch them with us.

760
00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:08.699
You can find that at bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bond finger cast on Twitter.

761
00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:17.219
I'm continuing to self-promote by telling you to go by the wonderful book, Hating to Love, which also includes essays from people such as J.R.

762
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:23.760
Southall, and Beth Ward and John Arnold, reassessing 52 of the worst ever Doctor Who stories.

763
00:58:23.820 --> 00:58:25.139
Which Colin Baker ones are in there?

764
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:27.900
Well, you're just going to have to have a look at the book and find out.

765
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:33.659
And finally, may none of your alien slugs get the runs after eating dyed peaches.

766
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:34.860
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

767
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:35.639
Good night.

768
00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:36.360
See you soon.

769
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:47.460
That was Flatthrough Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Boffley and Brendan Jones. theme arrangement by Cameron Ladd.

770
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:52.320
This episode, cardboard and wooden, was recorded on January 15th, 2017.

771
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:54.780
The next episode will be released on February 12th.

772
00:58:54.900 --> 00:59:01.019
Out now on Verosian Broadcasting Company Video, Nappy Cannibals Gone Wild Volume 7.

773
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:04.559
Order now and receive a free copy of synchronised acid bath diving.

774
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:12.719
Like I think there are good things in this story, but I think there are a lot of bad things as well.

775
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:16.860
A lot.

776
00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:20.639
That's okay because I think there's crap in this, but I enjoy it.

777
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:21.780
Yeah.

778
00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:24.119
I enjoyed pathetic performances.

779
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:25.019
Yeah.

780
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.659
Who do you think is pathetic?

781
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:28.800
That woman.

782
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.039
Oh Jesus Christ, she's bad.

783
00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:33.480
Okay, could we save it?

784
00:59:33.539 --> 00:59:37.860
They're a power couple of crap, but I love the fact that they're crap.