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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:41:53

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast to enjoy Capacayle's in brandy sauce with a stuffing of black pudding made with live pig bloods, herbs, pepper, and, of course, padding.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and Patrick Troughton's back.

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It's the 2 doctors.

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This story came about because of how thrilled John Nathan Turner was watching Patrick Troughton, Fraser Hines, and Wendy Padbury, in the 5 doctors, and sort of said to them on the spot while they were recording, hey, we're planning this 3 part, well, equivalent of a 6 part story in America next year.

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Would you like to come in on it?

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And Patrick and Fraser said, yeah, please.

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I think Wendy was pregnant with Charlie, which is part of the reason she's not back.

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Her daughter Charlie.

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Needless to say, this story is not set in America for a variety of reasons.

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We'll go into a bit later, but it's this strange equivalent of a six-parter.

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John Nathan Doner hated 6 partters.

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This is the only 6 part equivalent story we get in his run.

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And he had Eric Saywood phone, Robert Holmes, recently writer of the Caves of Andrazani and said, okay, we want you to write a big story.

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And Robert Holmes said, okay.

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And Eric Saywood said, it's set in America.

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It's got Patrick Troughton, Fraser Heinz, and Santarons, and the new doctor, and Perry, and Robert Holmes just went, oh, God.

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He always reacted really badly to being given a big kitchen sink script.

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I mean, the last time, I guess, was Power of Kroll, where he was told to include the biggest monster ever and really, really got annoyed and kind of left immediately afterwards.

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But I think that Robert Holmes is obviously one of the great writers that the series ever had.

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And I think it was kind of a strange decision of JNT to kind of veto older writers.

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And so it was a coup to get him back for Caves of Andrazani.

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And I actually think that this is a reasonably good Bob Holmes script.

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And it has some clever things in it, which I don't know, go sort of generally recognised.

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And I think it's a good fit for this season in that this season is all about kind of black comedies and and they don't always come off.

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I've said that before, but Holmes is skilled.

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His instinct is to kind of go nasty, but he does it well and there are scenes here that are genuinely funny.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree.

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What do you think, Todd?

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I love this.

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It's epic.

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You know, it's, um, the 1st 6 episode story since, um, again, factor.

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Yeah, it's the longest story between sort of Armageddon factor and utopia sound of drums last of the time lords, and I don't even think that's one story, really.

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So it is, it is properly epic.

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And I think, you know, like, I think Holmes manages to get enough to happen in this to kind of justify 345 minute episodes.

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I think there is some padding and there are some longers and stuff in it.

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But I think it generally works.

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Patrick Chowton or the 2nd doctor and Jamie Turnup and uh, Yeah, he's on a mission from the time lords.

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Yeah.

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Bit of a continuity problem.

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Now, I'm not sure what that's about, whether or not Holmes just misremembers, you know, the history of the doctor around then.

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He just knows the doctor was exiled to earth.

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I don't know why Eric Saywood may not pick up on it, or Ian Levine, the so-called continuity fan expert, to say, well, look, the doctor's on a run from his own people.

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He's not going to reveal this information, you know?

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I think there's a problem with regarding Doctor Who as a consistent series of stories. that chronicle the adventures of a particular individual.

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And so what's really happening here is that we get guest stars from the 60s.

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And now that the show is about a time lord from the planet Galafray in the constellation of Kosturbus, who occasionally does go on missions to the time lords, that's just how we conceive of the doctor, even though none of that stuff had actually happened.

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And I kind of find it off-putting, to see Patrick Trouton's doctor referred to as a timelord, even, and to have him talk about galafray.

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And I hate the conception that Gallifrey is a political force, and there's the 3rd zone governments, and all of that just seems sort of, you know, tiresome and and sort of Star Trek, you know, as if we're in a consistent universe rather than just a sort of series of stories.

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I dislike that a lot.

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And just the thought that the doctor, like our doctor, Patrick Troughton, would go on a mission for the time, Lord, seems so wrong.

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You know, none of those things ever got mentioned during his, you know, maybe the last 2 episodes of his, uh, time as the doctor, those things come up.

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Yeah, I gather Robert Holmes has sort of, when he was still alive, he didn't live much longer after this about 2 years.

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But someone raised it to him at a convention and he kind of put forward 2 different ideas at 2 different times.

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And one of the ideas he put forward was just saying, oh, you know, I realised after I wrote it and after we shot it, that it was actually John who went, who went on missions, et cetera, et cetera.

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And, you know, I just got confused because I hadn't been involved with the show for that long when John got involved, so I thought it was just always the case.

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The other thing he's actually put forward is what is now known as the season 6 B theory, which we've discussed before, but dear listeners, for those of you who are not aware, the season 6 B theory is that at the end of the war games, the celestial intervention agency who were mentioned in the deadly assassin as having intervened in the doctor's trial, pretty much rescue the doctor and send him on clandestine missions.

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And this is not even the origin of it.

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There was a series of comics published between the war games and Spearhead from Space, where the doctor is an agent for the Time Lords.

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Exiled to earth, but still in the form of Patrick Troughton, and is then lured into the Tartars by a bunch of time-look controlled scarecrows and forced to regenerate and land in a field.

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With the final panel, a reproduction of the 1st shot that John Pertley appears in falling out of the TARDIS.

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So we may never know what was actually going through John Nathan Turner's head, Ian Levine has, I believe, said that he did raise it with the production team, and because the pre-production of this story had been so troubled.

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They just kind of said, look, it's too late to do anything about it now.

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As I mentioned earlier, this story was meant to be set in New Orleans.

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JNT had gone on holiday there in 1980 and thought that the French quarter with its vibrancy would make a fantastic location.

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Um, he tried to secure extra funding from BBC Enterprises, kind of saying, Doctor Who's propping up BBC overseas sales.

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Can we see some more of that money, please?

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That didn't happen.

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So he made a deal with a production company called Lionheart, hired an American writer who wrote a treatment called Way Down Yonder.

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Didn't involve androgums, did involve Santarins, and was set in New Orleans, and one of the big payoffs it would have of the season. was after 3 stories of the doctor constantly berating Perry for her poor English.

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The doctor would have no idea what anyone was saying in America in New Orleans and it would be up to Perry to sort of liaise and translate.

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The co-funding deal fell through.

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Right.

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And that was after Bob Holmes had written a New Orleans-based story and he's like, French quarter, New Orleans food.

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I'll create these gastronomic aliens, an anagram of gourmand, the androgums, and then when it switched to Spain, as he said, I didn't have time to come up with anything else.

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So they just stayed.

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Well, you know, continuity is something that I always like to try and get out of that 6B theory.

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I just going to go, I roll my eyes, listeners.

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I roll my eyes.

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I don't know Maybe the doctor met the precursor of the CIA and they said you have to go on this mission.

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So he mentions it to Jamie and all that's happening, and then just by pure luck, the 6th doctor, the current doctor, they meet, and as you know, when a previous incarnation meets the current incarnation, when they go back into their timeline, the web of time, it raises works to erase that from their history.

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So all of that just, he forgets about it, Jamie thickets about it.

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And, you know, part of the CIA deal is not telling the timelines that he's out there and they've found him.

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You know, there is actually a line of dialogue where Holmes tries to deal with the fact that Colin can't remember this story, which is that when Pat is strapped to a table and being operated on by Dastari, he's given a drug which he recognises and says has an effect on the memory.

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So I think that he was trying to deal with it.

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Look, I think the 6B theory just doesn't work.

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They've just dropped Victoria off to study graphology.

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You know, Jamie remembers the doctor, Jamie knows what time lords are.

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It's just a mistake, you know, I think it is a shame because unlike the 3 doctors and the 5 doctors, I think we get Pat's best performance as the doctor since he left the show.

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He's so much more like the actual doctor than he is, he's kind of like an elder statesman when he comes back in the 3 doctors, and he doesn't do that sort of panicky, panting pat, which I really, really love, which I think that Pete kind of references a little bit in his performance.

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And that's terrific.

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I think he's really funny.

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His his sort of mercurial.

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He's, you know, he's the old pat rather than, uh, I'm here doing a guest star turn for this very special anniversary occasion.

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So I think that's really good.

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I think he's having terrific fun as um Andragum Pat as well.

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I think he's really really enjoying himself.

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That is, that is a whole weird sequence, especially when Shockeye played wonderfully by John Stratton wakes up and gets, gets to do that whole wonderful speech about how he's been betrayed.

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And, you know, for the 1st time shows what we would consider real sort of human emotion and vulnerability.

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You know, he cannot believe that Cecini has done this to him.

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But then, 2 hours later when they come back from their beal, all is forgiven. not even thinking about it.

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Yeah, no, he's distracted by food.

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Namely, on Tarin's leg, but we'll come back to that.

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I think Shockeye is extremely good in this.

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And I think that the Androgums are a really amazing monster.

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And people criticise this story because of Peter Moffatt's direction, and I don't think Peter Moffatt's direction is particularly good.

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But the big critique is that when the Santarans 1st appear, they aren't given a sort of close-up or anything like that.

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There's really no sort of fanfare about it.

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And I think that that's because this isn't a story where the Santarans are monsters.

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Stike and Varlet just characters.

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Holmes is not interested really in monsters.

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And the Androgums are, I think, a critique of the idea of monsters.

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And this is a point that Sandifer has made as well.

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But I think it's, it's really clear that what he's created is a monster that looks essentially like human.

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I mean, Shockeye is like a sort of camp, you know, dissolute old queen, you know, um, who's dressed for a pantomime, uh, and just looks like uh, a kind of old guy with sort of giant eyebrows.

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But whenever any of the characters describe the Androgums, they're like super strong and powerful, you know, shockeye can drink 6 bottles of wine and eat an entire suckling pig and half a family paella at lunch with no ill effects, you know, he's superhuman and terrifying.

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So he's described as a monster, but he just looks like a person.

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And so everyone who talks about Androgums all throughout this story just seems like a horrific racist, you know, because they're essentially just people.

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And even to the point where, where Colin, you know, ends up gassing shockeye with Oscar's cyanide, and that seems terrible because it's just Colin killing a person.

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But the person is spoken of as being a monster all the way through.

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And it kind of serves as a critique of the idea of monsters, that monsters are a kind of basically xenophobic or racist idea that, uh, that the androgums evil because they're androgums and you can't genetically engineer them.

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Pat compares Cecini to a monkey in like a really horrifically racist line.

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And so I think that's intentional.

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I don't think that the material is getting away from homes here.

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I think he's setting out to deliberately critique the idea of monsters in Doctor Who.

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There seems to be a scene in every story of this season where the doctor gets to be violent and that's become a focal point of what people talk about.

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I have no problem with the gassing scene because we have seen that shockeye does not have what we would consider a sense of reason.

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So the doctor saying, hold on, can't we discuss this?

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Well, the doctor has just had to rescue both Perry and Jamie from being literally butchered by this man.

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And the doctor has a massive gash in his leg.

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It is bleeding profusely from that enough to leave a blood trail.

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So the doctor's just in the situation of, I've got no choice here.

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And The thing is, it's very different to the situation of the doctor going and pointing a gun in Davros's face, as I know you objected to last year, Nathan, because it's the doctor being pursued rather than the doctor doing the pursuing.

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Even the just desserts line, I don't see that as a gloating line, that is an expression of relief like this situation is over.

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He doesn't really take any pleasure in the killing.

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Like when he comes back, he he sort of just obliquely refers to what he's done.

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Just like Shockeye's been mockballed and let's move on and let's not discuss it.

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I actually object more strongly to other things this season, like the doctor gunning, the cyber controller in the face and the doctor shooting Daleks with a big gun in Revelation.

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I don't like very much, but I'm not that worried about this, partly because it's sold by the kind of desperation that the doctor's in and the chase and all of that sort of thing.

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And partly because I think it intends to be problematic.

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It is the doctor gassing a guy in the face, but the guy's a monster and the doctor kills monsters, you know.

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So I don't think that that's bad at all.

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And in fact, that chase is wonderfully well directed.

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I'm laughing my head off because I came in here thinking that I would have to have a battle on my hands to justify that sequence with actually with Nathan. been in my head all week.

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So I've been very silent listening to you both, and I agree, and that chase is brilliant, and I think Peter Moffatt's direction on location.

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I really love it.

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Yeah, I think I think he does one or 2 good shots in the studio as well.

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I don't think it's that interesting, but there are one or 2 shots, which I think are good.

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The direction's a bit flat and a bit unremarkable, um, but it's not terrible.

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And certainly, you know, the big complaint about the reveal of the Sonterans.

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I think is a problem at all.

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The music helps too.

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The chase.

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The music in the chases one.

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I can't do the music.

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Yeah, with the guitar.

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Oh, great.

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No, no, no, no.

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That's fantastic.

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And I also love the Santara and like the battle, you know, music.

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This on Taran music is great.

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Yeah, it's wonderful.

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Something I love about the Santara and reveal is actually the reveal in dialogue when their ships are coming towards it and the computer tells the fabulous Jacqueline Pierce, Santara, and Battle Cruises approaching.

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I think that's a great touch because fans who've been watching since 1978 or had the Doctor Who Monster book will go, oh my god, the Santarans are back.

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And people who don't know the Santarans will just go, what was that word?

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What does that mean?

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And it creates, it creates intrigue.

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I actually have a note here, which is, I think this is the worst Colin Baker story.

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I think it might be the best.

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But, I think part of the reason for that is when they lose the American location and they have to lose all the word play that was going to be in there because instead of having our core cast of characters who speak British English and another core cast of characters who speak American English, we have our core cast of characters who speak English, and then if we have a core cast of Spanish characters, they have to speak Spanish or they have to speak English as well, like Anita.

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So you lose that language play.

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And I just feel there are long bits where not a lot happens and I kind of feel that maybe they should have looked at the script and gone, I know we wanted to make this a six.

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Let's look at what we can do with this other episode somewhere in the season and make it a 2 parter.

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Certainly, the stuff in the ducting at the end of episode one and the beginning of episode 2 is a bit boring.

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In the 6 part version.

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Yeah, right, so we've got episode one.

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Oh, yes.

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With Pat getting there, the doctor's off fishing.

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Don't do that.

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You'll frighten the fish is one of my all-time favourite lines ever.

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Like I just burst out laughing every time.

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Like I've been fishing and I've been bored and throwing things going, when are we going to catch you?

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Catch some fish.

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I can understand Paul Perry's predicament.

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The doctor being incompetent in a rather sweet way as well. catchers.

187
00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:46.680
And we've got the most valuable fish in the universe at this time is the home script.

188
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:50.460
And Gumble Jack is such a Bob Holmes word. is, isn't it?

189
00:18:50.519 --> 00:19:08.880
But then, of course, they, at the end of that, episode one of the six-part version, of course, Perry and the doctor have arrived on the station and they're assessing the situation and we've got that wonderful cliffhanger, you know, the doctor says it threatened no one and then the computer says, it threatened the time lords, Q Sting, which I just think it's a fantastic.

190
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:20.339
But then we've got 25 minutes, another 20 minutes of this, the 2nd half of this, this um, 45 minute episode, where basically it's the Dr. Perry bitching at each other through the ducting and all around the station.

191
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.920
And I think it's, in terms of the season.

192
00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:26.400
And in terms of this story, I think it's the 25 minutes that I like the least.

193
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:33.779
The moment that they meet Jamie, again, having that 3rd person in with them just improves everything, you know?

194
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:41.880
And then there's that wonderful scene where it actually, you know, finds the fake deaths of Perry and that is really concerned and everything, that's at the beginning of the next episode, I think, or...

195
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:42.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

196
00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:43.740
And everything just picks up from there.

197
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.240
But all that ducting stuff.

198
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.559
Yeah, yeah, you know.

199
00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:54.960
And then Jamie attacking Perry, like, yeah, I don't know why it becomes a strange monster from the trauma of seeing the doctor killed or whatever.

200
00:19:55.380 --> 00:20:02.640
Something I found watching that 1st episode, and it was when I was watching that scene with the doctor and Perry in Destari's office.

201
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:13.319
And on the commentary, you have Colin Nicola, Peter Moffatt, Fraser and Jackie Pierce, and they slightly, they slightly vary.

202
00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:15.299
But that's a 7 minute scene.

203
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:20.640
And Colin and Nicola are praising Peter Moffat and, you know, nobody was doing that on television anymore.

204
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.259
Yeah, because you get bored.

205
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:29.700
But what I was thinking when I was watching that was, imagine if the story started with the doctor and Perry fishing.

206
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:30.720
Yeah.

207
00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:40.380
Then you go into the TARDIS, the doctor collapses and you flash back to Pat and you tell the 2 stories on the station simultaneously with each other.

208
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:48.059
So when the doctor and Perry are into Starry's office, you then cut back to Patrick and Jamie in Dastari's office having a go at him.

209
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.680
When the doctor and Perry are going through the ducks, you then have Jamie seeing the doctor.

210
00:20:52.740 --> 00:21:08.339
Because the problem with Collins, Dr. and Perry exploring the station is that the plot is now happening with Patrick elsewhere and we have to delay them getting to that plot in order for Patrick's plot to sort of move on a bit.

211
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:11.819
I really like the doctor and Perry relationship in this story.

212
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:16.500
And when they're going through the ducting, I think the bitching is actually at the perfect level.

213
00:21:16.619 --> 00:21:25.859
For instance, the doctor's being pompous, but he's not being nasty and Perry's being fed up, but she's not traumatised, you know what I mean?

214
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:32.160
There's that bit where Perry has something really important to say, like, I think there's a creature following us.

215
00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:35.579
And the doctor tells her off for interrupting him, but she should feel privileged.

216
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:37.920
I can't tell you how privileged.

217
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:38.460
I feel.

218
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.019
She's great.

219
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:43.079
There's that whole bit with, hold your arms up and slide down.

220
00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:43.859
What if I get stuck?

221
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:44.759
Well, I shouldn't have buyed that.

222
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:45.420
Be right behind you.

223
00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:49.980
Colin in this is amazing.

224
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:51.599
He's got these wonderful speeches.

225
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:58.019
He's got that speech about death and decay, which is horrifying, but it's so well delivered.

226
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:04.259
He's got that speech about the possible death of the universe and he brings it all down to there'll be no more butterflies.

227
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:05.700
No more gumblejacks.

228
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:06.539
No more gumblejack.

229
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:10.319
That is the worst kind of word peril though, isn't it?

230
00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:12.359
And we throw it away quite quickly.

231
00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:18.539
For a little while, we think the universe is going to be destroyed, but we're just told that in a speech by Colin and then it goes away.

232
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:26.759
See, this is why having a nonlinear story would work because if we didn't know whether Patrick was still alive at that point or not, it would actually raise the barrel.

233
00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:28.019
We don't actually know that.

234
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:32.400
Have we seen Pat being carried by the Santarians in episode one?

235
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:33.779
Yeah, that happened.

236
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:34.799
Backup of episode one.

237
00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:35.339
Okay.

238
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.799
Because it's a long time that we don't see him, isn't it?

239
00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:41.700
It's strangely paced and it does suffer from that 45 minute thing.

240
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:44.579
It's 10 minutes before Colin and Nicola are even in it.

241
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:49.380
That's okay because the stuff with the doctor and Jamie is kind of. exactly.

242
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:51.059
You know, the doctor has arrived in the story.

243
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.940
Yeah, a doctor has, but Colin doesn't get to be in the story until well into episode two.

244
00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:59.160
And so that is a bit of a problem.

245
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:02.940
I love your idea of running all that parallel.

246
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:08.579
Brendan, I think one of the listeners out there needs to do a re-edit and post it up to YouTube because that would be very, very interesting.

247
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.339
Obviously, in this 1st episode, we introduced to other characters.

248
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.059
Do you know, I'd forgotten that Jacqueline Pierce was in this.

249
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:17.460
But it's not Serverland.

250
00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:24.539
It's pitched so perfectly between being just to camp and just the right sort of, you know, villainous sort of thing.

251
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:25.259
I don't know.

252
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:26.400
It's just something that's delicious.

253
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:38.819
I think everybody in this story pictures their performance. very similarly, like within a range that works, and I think we've seen in other stories this season, certainly one coming up, where you've suddenly got a huge range, who you can see who's over the top and who's really crap.

254
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.579
Whereas in this, I think everybody's universally very good.

255
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.819
Justari, I think, is one of the performances of the year.

256
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.740
He was in the gunfighters, wasn't he?

257
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:47.160
Yes.

258
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:54.660
And he just manages to have that warmth and you can see the whole character journey and it just holds everything together.

259
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.740
It's so believable.

260
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.680
He's Morix in episode one of the leisure hive as well.

261
00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:04.259
Oh, the original, who I really liked too, is the original...

262
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:11.759
He's got a great thing in episode 3 where he gradually becomes more and more sort of disgusted and disappointed with Cassini, which I think he sells quite well.

263
00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:16.619
And I think also disappointed in himself because Cassini is his achievement.

264
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.299
She is a possession to him.

265
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:31.380
Then he's got this realisation that actually she's got her own personality and her own thoughts, which kind of intrigues him, and then I think it's when she orders the conversion of the doctor into an androgum.

266
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:31.799
Yeah.

267
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.740
Oh, she kills people as well.

268
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.740
Oh yeah, well, yeah, she kills people on the base.

269
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:39.779
But that's part, you know, he's part of the plan.

270
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:41.640
Yeah. in that.

271
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:44.400
But when she breaks free in, she starts doing her own thing.

272
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:50.519
And then when she starts to regress, Jackie Pearce in that scene where she just lays down on the ground and rubs blood in her face.

273
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:59.220
You know, for years, we, as genre fans, of course, Todd, you refer to Serverland, Jacqueline Pierce's famous role for 4 years in Blake 7.

274
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.559
That's how we know Jacqueline Pierce.

275
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:05.339
She is utterly sophisticated and utterly ruthless.

276
00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:14.460
To see her playing a character here, who is also sophisticated and also ruthless, but then regresses into savagery, and she sells it completely.

277
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:19.440
You know, there are actors who they've got their niche and they play their niche and they're very good at.

278
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:37.440
And Jacqueline Pierce, for the 1st 2 episodes of the story, you'd say, okay, it's this niche where she's the strangely sexy and alluring intelligent villainess, but then you get that scene and you're just like, wow, you know, she can she can play what we would see a savage character as well.

279
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.039
Peter Moffatt may not be a great visual director, but reflecting on his stories.

280
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.000
He gets good performances out of people.

281
00:25:48.180 --> 00:25:53.339
So maybe he's one of these people you would call an actor's director, you know.

282
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:55.259
Can I ask the question?

283
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.680
When you watch this, Brendan, did you know Jacqueline as Servoland?

284
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:03.059
Because as a kid, I hadn't really watched Blake Seven.

285
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:04.019
I might have seen an episode.

286
00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:04.799
I thought, what is this?

287
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:05.579
I never going to watch it.

288
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:06.779
This is Sub Doctor Who.

289
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.000
Like I was very anti-anything but Doctor Who.

290
00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:13.680
So I didn't really recognise her from that and I just loved Cassini, right?

291
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:15.480
So that was my journey.

292
00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:19.680
I don't think I did know her because I vividly remember.

293
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:24.720
I remember knowing what Blake 7 was, probably from the Doctor Who special effects book by Matt Irvine.

294
00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:32.220
But I distinctly remember when I was about 12 watching Blake 7 for what I believe is the 1st time.

295
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:37.500
And it was the edited movie compilation of the 1st 3 episodes.

296
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:45.779
So, yeah, I remember being terrified by the sequence where Nova gets killed in Space Fall, you know, with the perforated walls.

297
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:47.460
And the BBC foam machine.

298
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:52.259
Yeah, but you know, when you're 12, you didn't really know her as Superland.

299
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:52.980
No, absolutely not.

300
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.019
I mean, it's the dialogue in this story.

301
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:56.339
I mean, it's homes, right?

302
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:57.180
Yeah, yeah.

303
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.779
And she get, you know, I'm going back to episode one of the 3 parter.

304
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.440
She gets that moment.

305
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:02.099
What does it say?

306
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.380
That noble history lies behind us.

307
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.299
But ahead lies a vision.

308
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:12.119
And somebody somewhere has done an edit of that shot, goes straight into the Blake 7 and credits.

309
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:12.779
It's hilarious.

310
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:13.980
It's just wonderful.

311
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.759
But there's other things like, you know, Shockeye will talk about Tulurians, you know?

312
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:18.599
Yeah, yes.

313
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.539
Which was Holmes's word for Earth people in Carnival of Monsters.

314
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.359
Yeah, things like that that I just love.

315
00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:31.259
I love shock eye catching the ration bite to get to it and saying, smoke dried, it might just be tolerable.

316
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:37.799
In fact, that scene is incredibly funny, and people say, oh, you know, it's terribly totally inappropriate, and it is kind of totally inappropriate.

317
00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:42.180
And in the context of the season, maybe it's a bit too much, but gee, it's funny.

318
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.299
Like, he twists its neck and takes a bite out of it.

319
00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:51.480
And then this, like, a rat with a big cartoon bite taken out of the side of it that he's waving around.

320
00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:57.359
The other thing, which is really horrible, is the way that he's clearly eaten the donya.

321
00:27:57.420 --> 00:27:59.099
That is so fantastic.

322
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.900
Like, oh, I detect great age. and then she hobbles in.

323
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:06.539
What does she say something about your English, nor care, or whatever?

324
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:07.859
That's the other thing too.

325
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:15.660
So it's it's Dastari who's from the 3rd zone and this sort of stupid space station, some Santarans and some Andrigams.

326
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.799
Walk into a bath.

327
00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:17.819
Walk into a bar.

328
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:20.099
And the Dona Arana hears them speak.

329
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:22.920
I think it's Shockey says it cannot see.

330
00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:25.799
And she goes, you are English?

331
00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:34.079
So clearly in the Doctor Who universe. everyone speaks English except for non-English speaking people on earth.

332
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:52.019
But again, and it has that hilarious thing where she goes away from an altar, like she's been praying and you get, you get that line of dialogue from Shockey where he says, I'm not interested in the beliefs of primitives only in what they taste like.

333
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:57.180
And then a few scenes later when Chasidi's talking about the knowledge he's getting from the Dona Arada.

334
00:28:57.240 --> 00:28:59.940
Shockeye says something like, oh, can we find another one?

335
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.559
There was not much meat on the boat.

336
00:29:01.619 --> 00:29:04.619
It's fantastic. laughing my head off now.

337
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:06.000
Just, just, just...

338
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:07.500
I just had this black sins of humour.

339
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:09.059
It just tickles my fancy.

340
00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:10.440
But the great thing is too.

341
00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:17.220
Where I said that the Androgums are coded as monsters and that's what's so weird about them is that he's also really, really human.

342
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:21.180
I mean, there is this implication that human beings are monsters.

343
00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:41.039
And, you know, this season has a lot of cannibalism in it, which is not anything we've had to say about Doctor Who before, but, you know, as human beings, we're basically sort of chewing our way through entire ecosystems and seeing 1000000s and 1000000s of animals every year killed in order to feed us.

344
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:45.779
And You know, that's not that different from shockeye.

345
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.359
The implication is that Shockey is going to eat a lot of people.

346
00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:51.779
Remember, this planet is grossly overpopulated.

347
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.940
And he says that by the time he leaves the planet, that may no longer be a problem.

348
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:03.960
And of course, when he's tenderising Jamie, he's saying that the writhing and the screaming, oh no, that's just a reflex action.

349
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:06.539
These animals don't feel pain the way you or I do.

350
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:11.339
Yeah, yeah, all of those justifications that we make for our treatment of animals.

351
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:25.680
And like I'm not a vegetarian, I'm not going to be a vegetarian anytime soon, but the moral argument for vegetarianism is pretty strong and it's not hard to imagine that if we all survive the climate change crisis, which seems increasingly unlikely.

352
00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:31.740
Our descendants will look back on us and think, what on earth were we doing, eating all of these animals.

353
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:33.839
It is a real kind of moral blind spot that we have.

354
00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:38.759
And home satirises it, I think, in a sensible way, they're like us only worse.

355
00:30:38.819 --> 00:30:41.940
Yeah, because Holmes, of course, was vegetarian himself.

356
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:48.059
Nicola Bryant is vegetarian and it was actually Nicola Bryant who walked up to him with the script and said, are you a vegetarian?

357
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.000
And he said, yeah, and she said, I thought so.

358
00:30:51.059 --> 00:31:19.440
She was kind of like one of the few people who got that aspect of the script, that it was an indictment on our practises, and it's why the last line of the story is from now on, it's a healthy vegetarian diet for both of us, as the discontinuity guide points out, having the 2 doctors, as a message for vegetarianism, is like having a Peter Greenaway film tried to criticise pornography. or Sam Peckon Park criticising a slasher film.

359
00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:37.019
Speaking of slasher films, of course, we've had a slasher film influence earlier this year with vengeance on Baros, which was not only a sort of reaction to the growing horror film market, but a satire of it.

360
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:43.019
A lot of people have compared, especially the location scenes, especially the chase scenes involving shockeye.

361
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:47.099
So when he's chasing down Perry when he's chasing down the doctor to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

362
00:31:47.160 --> 00:32:00.599
Which was about made about 10 years before this, but was still a horror icon, and especially with the resurgence in slasher films towards the end of the 70s beginning of the 80s and right through till now.

363
00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:05.759
Friday the 13th was still going, Nightmare on Elm Street, I think, premiered 1984.

364
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:12.180
So, It's Doctor Who doing what other shows do, as Richard would always point out.

365
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.920
And that, I think, is part of the reason I don't have a big problem with the violence in this story.

366
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.980
You know, I've said, I considered this the worst Colin Baker story.

367
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:20.940
It's still very watchable.

368
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:29.400
It's just the long pauses sometimes between anything happening, but thankfully, those long pauses are filled with excellent performances.

369
00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:33.539
So when I say it's the worst Colin Baker story, I don't think it's bad.

370
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.279
I just think.

371
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.980
A 70 minute edit would be lovely.

372
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:41.519
There's 2 cliffhangers that I want to talk about.

373
00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:46.259
The end of the 45 minute part 2 where Perry is being pursued by Shockeye.

374
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.720
I think it's more evidence that he's the monster.

375
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:50.579
He gets the big final.

376
00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:54.420
Yeah, DMI pretty one. and the music and her running away. fantastic.

377
00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:06.059
But in the 6 part story in the middle of that episode, of course, we get, I think, one of the best cliffhangers of all time, where I think the doctor or someone says, like, where is this hacienda?

378
00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:08.099
And Anita goes, it is this way.

379
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:09.180
They walk off.

380
00:33:13.619 --> 00:33:15.779
I just laughed my head off.

381
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.220
I think it's a fantastic little.

382
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.539
And the very next scene is the 2nd doctor freaking out because he thinks Jamie's dead.

383
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:26.400
It's like, well, that's a better cliffhanger, even though we know Jamie's alive, at least it shows some distress.

384
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:28.680
But yeah, the hacienda is this way.

385
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:30.480
I love Anita and Oscar.

386
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:31.440
Yeah.

387
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.319
That actor is 27 years old, I think.

388
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:35.339
At that time.

389
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:36.000
Yeah, yeah.

390
00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:38.039
I don't think this is with us any longer.

391
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.099
I think he's I think he's really good.

392
00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:50.039
I think he's really funny and he helps to reinforce that theme of human beings being evil because when we 1st see him, he's gassing moths.

393
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

394
00:33:51.059 --> 00:34:02.940
And, you know, it's it's telling that that cyanide is used to kill Shockeye later, but is using poison to kill animals for his pleasure.

395
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.819
And Anita critiques that a little bit.

396
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:11.280
But he's that kind of typical homesian, you know, huge performance.

397
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.539
And we've got 2 of them here.

398
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:14.039
We've got Shockeye as well.

399
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:19.019
In fact, we get Shockeye and Pat as a fantastic Holmesey and double act.

400
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:19.320
Yeah.

401
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:22.860
I think Oscar's really funny and sort of terribly sweet.

402
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:29.820
And one of the criticisms that gets levelled against this story is the way that he's killed in episode three.

403
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:37.619
And, you know, he doesn't need to be killed, the Spanish truck driver who gets killed, doesn't need to be killed either.

404
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.320
But Shockeye is a monster.

405
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:47.760
And in order to make him not just be a comedy panto character, he does need to kill people.

406
00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:53.940
And I think, you know, the scene where Oscar is killed is funny and kind of touching.

407
00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:01.619
You know, he's sort of pompous, he's ludicrous belief that he could ever do a definitive Hamlet. is like terribly sweet.

408
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:05.880
And a very cruel reference to Matthew Waterhouse, if I say.

409
00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:11.159
But the doctor gets to do a little bit of good acting there and Perry reacts to it.

410
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:13.139
It works really well and he's safe.

411
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.940
You know, those comedy characters.

412
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.280
Those Christopher Benjamin style characters in a Bob Holmes story don't get killed.

413
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:25.019
And so it is homes being cynical and it is homes being nasty.

414
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:30.659
But I think it's intentional and I don't think it fails.

415
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.679
I think that scene works.

416
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.619
I think so too And it's got to be upsetting.

417
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:36.539
You know, killing Adrigoff, who cares?

418
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.039
But killing Oscar Botchubi.

419
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:39.300
You know, we care about that.

420
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:40.860
That's what drama's supposed to do.

421
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:46.619
Um, look, I am... going to dissent on a point.

422
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:58.199
I think the death of Oscar is one of the biggest tone deaf moments of this entire era. simply because it's a massive missed opportunity.

423
00:35:58.260 --> 00:36:14.460
His character has been painted and built up as this camp, Hammy ex-actor who's done something in his old theatre group and is in self-imposed exile.

424
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:18.539
Yeah, like Anita says, maybe the consulate will forgive you or you on a forthcoming tour.

425
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:20.880
So we don't know what he's done or to whom he's done it.

426
00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:25.619
Is this around the time Richard Marson was having to fend Gary Downey off with a scripted time flight?

427
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:26.760
I wonder if that's a reference.

428
00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:44.400
But every time I watch that scene as a kid, I expect at the end when Anita's sobbing into his shirt for her to get up, slap him and say, you're still breathing. and walk off, you know, it feels to me like that is him doing his hammy death scene because he thinks he's going to die, but then actually he'll be okay.

429
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.500
But I mean, I think that would work.

430
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.860
Holmes is, well, we've said this before.

431
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.380
Holmes is really cynical and he needs reining in.

432
00:36:52.440 --> 00:37:02.400
And Terrence Dix was able to rein him in during the Pertuy era, and his scripts, I think, for Pertuy are the best scripts of that era.

433
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:14.460
I think Eric Saywood is disinclined probably even to edit him very much because Eric Saywood has the good taste to realise that he's an extremely good Doctor Who writer.

434
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:28.079
But he does tend towards the cynical, and there is a feeling to botch of his death, which is, I'm going to get the Doctor Who fans here, you know, because Botchubi is a comedy character who should be safe.

435
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.480
He's going to shock us.

436
00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:33.420
And he actually writes the novelisation for this.

437
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:34.559
Do you remember this, Todd?

438
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:36.420
It's the 100th target novelisation.

439
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.280
It's the only one he writes.

440
00:37:38.340 --> 00:37:39.480
It's specially released.

441
00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:43.139
I listen to it reasonably recently because Colin actually reads it.

442
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:43.980
Oh, wow.

443
00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:45.480
And he does a great job.

444
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:46.860
You know, he's got a terrific voice.

445
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:49.380
He does a terrific 6 doctor impression.

446
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:50.579
It's really something.

447
00:37:50.940 --> 00:38:03.539
And there is an extremely revoltingly nasty scene where Shockeye imagines in detail, what it would be like for Perry to be cooked in an oven.

448
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.460
And it's really, really revolting.

449
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:10.320
And so Holmes is always tending in that direction and he probably does need to be reined in.

450
00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:12.539
He's not being reined in here.

451
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:24.539
And the next script that he does for the program, because a lot of history's happened between now and then, he's super careful and actually ends up writing something completely anodyne and fairly uninteresting.

452
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:26.699
Here when he's kind of given his head.

453
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:35.940
Yeah, you know, maybe he goes too far, but it's still, it's Bob Holmes going too far and that's so much better than, you know, Glenn McCoy going too far.

454
00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:49.139
See, on the one hand, I kind of object because The only other function that Anita and Oscar have in the plot is showing them where the hacienda is, and it's not like they're that far away from it anyway.

455
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.539
So, you know, they probably would have found it themselves without them.

456
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:56.099
So it becomes the only function of them in the plot is cannon fodder.

457
00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:56.579
Right.

458
00:38:56.579 --> 00:39:03.119
But on the other hand, If this is a satire of slasher films.

459
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:04.800
Anita's the final girl.

460
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:06.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

461
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:11.340
Because, you know, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, too.

462
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.340
There's always a young girl left alive at the end.

463
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:30.059
The other thing I love about their characters, and because I've watched this recently, one of Rod's Christmas presents was also the complete enterprise on Blu-ray, so we've been watching season one of that, and there's a subplot in season one of a young female crew member developing a crush on Dr. Flox.

464
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:42.719
And as the actress says in an interview, she's like, oh, you know, yeah, I could have had a crush on the chief engineer who's a hunk, but Dr. Flox, he's kind of like the comforting older man, uncle kind of figure, and that's much more interesting to play.

465
00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:51.960
And it's like, you can see that Anita fancies Oscar a little bit for some reason, like when they're out moth hunting and he doesn't notice because he's after his boss.

466
00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:55.380
And there's something very sweet and probably gay.

467
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:02.099
There's something very sweet about those 2 characters together and when she's bossing him around in the restaurant and whatnot.

468
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:08.639
But I like how she likes the 6th doctor and gives him kisses and poor Jamie's left, you know, waiting for his.

469
00:40:08.699 --> 00:40:10.019
I like those little comedy moments.

470
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.699
Yeah, he does get a kiss from Perry, but he kind of, he inflicts himself on for a bit.

471
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:18.659
He's always played for comic purposes, really.

472
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:21.960
Apart from, you know, when he's discovered in his nest in episode two.

473
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:29.460
He gets a lot of position coma. yeah An expedition comrade, forgotten about expedition coma.

474
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:33.719
So we have exposition code, but we have word peril.

475
00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:36.719
We have the most valuable fish in the universe.

476
00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:46.679
The moment this moves from the space station, onto location, around the hacienda, in the hacienda, all the runarounds down in Seville.

477
00:40:46.739 --> 00:40:48.360
I just love it.

478
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:56.940
I just love all that location work, all the bits of dialogue, you know, double cross Centaurans and, and, oh, I'm just sitting here listening to you guys loving it.

479
00:40:56.940 --> 00:41:01.320
And I, and I, and as I said earlier in this podcast, I was, I thought you weren't going to.

480
00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:04.440
And so I'm just so thrilled that is the case.

481
00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:15.960
I think that there's a bit of a problem with the location work in, in that, I think it is a big shame that it's, it's like 17 minutes into episode 3 before we get to Seville, we've been talking about it.

482
00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:19.440
The scenes in Seville look beautiful, like they look amazing.

483
00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:21.960
All of those scenes in alleyways and stuff.

484
00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:23.519
We've got everyone on location.

485
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:36.719
I think it's bizarre that Stike and Val get to be on location and discussing things that they could equally have done in that sort of giant seller, you know, studio, but instead they're outside the hacienda having a chat.

486
00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:38.219
I think that's terribly good.

487
00:41:38.340 --> 00:41:45.119
I love seeing Dastari walking through the streets of Seville and no one really kind of noticing.

488
00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:46.500
I think all of that's really great.

489
00:41:46.619 --> 00:42:00.300
Friends of the podcast, Brian Lindsay and Summermore, have been there, and they actually said Seville is even more beautiful, and the locations that they use are literally like little back alleys and things that don't really show off the city, like, and we think that's beautiful.

490
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:01.619
They said you should see the rest of it.

491
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:06.420
Yeah, they probably did that to avoid avoid tourists and get clean shots.

492
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.760
I think it takes too long for the 2 doctors to meet.

493
00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:10.739
Like, you really are wanting them to get together.

494
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:11.880
I would have liked to have seen them.

495
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:16.079
Perhaps a bit like the 3 doctors where they meet earlier and then get separated and then come back together.

496
00:42:16.139 --> 00:42:19.559
I mean, it's not until part 3 of the 45 minute thing that we get.

497
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:26.219
You know that little scene where they sort of they meet briefly and then you're just going, I want them to talk to each other, you know?

498
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.199
Yeah, yeah, they get snap wrong.

499
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:32.400
You know, they look at each other and go snack, which is actually quite a funny line, but they miss timer.

500
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:38.940
You can see the actors watching each other to try and get the timing right and they don't, but we don't go again because it's Pete them off.

501
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:39.539
Yeah, exactly.

502
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:41.039
That's the thing. blame them for that.

503
00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:42.659
I blame Peter more.

504
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.260
I love the explosion of the Santaran spaceship.

505
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:48.420
It was twice the size that it needed it to be.

506
00:42:48.480 --> 00:43:01.260
If you watch the documentary on the actual DVD, they explain that they had to buy pyrotechnics in, they didn't, they couldn't get it into the country and then it was all, it was too big to exploit.

507
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:09.599
You know, the typical thing where it's like, oh, yes, it's only going to be, like, yay big, and then it's suddenly 3 times the size and people down the road thought there was some massive problem, you know?

508
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:10.559
Yeah, yeah.

509
00:43:10.619 --> 00:43:15.179
I think I think it's because surprisingly enough, even then they didn't like explosives going on planes.

510
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:25.619
But I gather it's also they had a certain budget for it based on what they would pay in England, but for some reason, explosives are much cheaper in Spain at the time with the exchange rate.

511
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:34.199
So instead of going, okay, well, you know, we were going to buy X amount or buy X amount. like, oh, we can buy 3 X. Okay, let's let's do that.

512
00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:37.500
What's the end of episode 5 in the six-part version?

513
00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:39.119
Is that the doctor putting his head in that fountain?

514
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:42.360
So the doctor starts fantasising about eating cats.

515
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:52.860
And then he, uh, and then he sort of douses his head in a fountain and says something about how it's only going to get worse and that was our kind of cliffhanger.

516
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.019
I think all of that stuff is fine.

517
00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:59.460
You know, it doesn't really go anywhere, but it puts an extra bit of pressure on the 6th doctor.

518
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:15.300
You know, there's something about Colin's performance here in this story, which I really like, and I really like him on location, and it turns out when he's not in a garish studio set trying to outshout the studio lighting.

519
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.820
Uh, and when he's just on location in a normal place, he plays it down.

520
00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:28.619
And initially, I had thought it was because it was really hot and he didn't have the energy to kind of do his normal kind of overacting.

521
00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:37.619
But he'll do it again in Revelation of the Daleks, where he gets an entire episode where he's only on location, and it's really cold there.

522
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:38.760
So it's not the temperature.

523
00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:50.579
I think it is something to do with just, it's easier to act on location because you're in a real situation, and there's a temptation, when you're in a kind of crummy light entertainment set, to go big.

524
00:44:50.639 --> 00:45:02.099
And Colin is still recognisably the 6th doctor in those scenes, but there's just something underplayed about it, and I do wish he'd underplayed it more because he is charming and he is funny.

525
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:20.219
And even when he's being a little bit obnoxious, he's not unlikeable, and I guess it goes back to my idea that making the doctor unlikeable was always a terrible idea, particularly when it's clear that JNT casts Colin because Colin is charming, you know, and witty, you know, and clever.

526
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:23.760
Do you think it also helps the fact that he's not wearing the coat on location?

527
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:26.760
I really like the waistcoat.

528
00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:27.539
It's a good one.

529
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:27.900
Yeah.

530
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:31.739
It's better than Pete's horrible woolly one on Lanzarote.

531
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:42.900
There's a big finish Doctor Who box set called The Six Doctor, The Last Adventure, which is a story arc of 4 stories at different points in the Six Doctor's Life leading up to his regeneration.

532
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.619
The one with India Fisher as Charlie Pollard.

533
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:48.719
A fan did a fan cover of that.

534
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:59.519
And because it's referred to, I believe in the script, it's been a while since I listened to it, the doctor actually loses coaching it, in the cover, the artist has put him on in that waistcoat.

535
00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:02.219
And it's like, yeah, we need more of that as well.

536
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.820
There exists a customised action figure of him in that waistcoat.

537
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.039
Wonderful customiser called Selky.

538
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:13.800
It is such a nice costume touch and yeah, wouldn't wouldn't it have been great to actually just have a doctor without a coat for a little while.

539
00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:15.539
You know, we've got another 2 stories this season.

540
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:23.099
Let's just keep him in that And it would have been an in universe explanation as to why we're getting rid of the coat.

541
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:33.480
In fact, it is kind of boring, isn't it, that all of JNT's doctors until Sylvester McCoy all have knee length coats, as if that's what the doctor has to wear.

542
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:38.340
He has to wear knee length of coats, but they're all sort of different colours, and that's how we tell the doctors apart.

543
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:44.699
And I think there are problems with Sylvester McCoy's costume, but I was so relieved to get rid of the knee length code.

544
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:49.559
And here, I really think that Collins costume works here.

545
00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:55.320
I love the tie that he's got jammed in his pocket that sort of trails around behind him when he's running, that looks really good.

546
00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:01.800
There's some common criticisms of this story we haven't mentioned, so I thought I might mention some of them now.

547
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:14.280
Nathan, you did touch upon briefly earlier, the possibility of, you know, kind of racist to androgums, and people often cite that bit at the beginning where the 2nd doctor is saying, you know, I don't care about the pedigree of an androgum.

548
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:17.159
I'm a timelord, and people are like, oh no, the 2nd doctor wouldn't do that.

549
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:21.000
It's like, well, he would slam a lawyer's head into a desk.

550
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.059
He would gun ice warriors down with a big gun.

551
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:25.559
I mean, that's part of the point.

552
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:26.340
It's about monsters.

553
00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:28.980
Yeah, he would certainly throw his weight back.

554
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:33.719
Look, he does exactly the same thing in the war games when he's pretending to be someone from the War office.

555
00:47:33.780 --> 00:47:35.039
You know, I have no problem with that scene.

556
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:40.079
And later on the 6th doctor says, we've got no time to worry about dead Andrew comes Perry.

557
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:43.440
It's like, you might think, oh, that's cruel and that's harsh.

558
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:45.059
It's like, what else is he going to do?

559
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:46.739
I think it's deliberate.

560
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:55.800
I think it is deliberate that Holmes has created a race of monsters that just look like people and is now critiquing a problematic attitude towards monsters that the show's always had.

561
00:47:55.860 --> 00:48:00.119
And finally, the tall Santarans that people criticise.

562
00:48:00.179 --> 00:48:01.739
I think that Son Tarans are pretty terrible.

563
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:17.159
They look terrible and the, I don't think they've got the mask right since, well, essentially since the Santarin experiment, because it always seemed like Kevin Lindsay's head was kind of encased in a big fibreglass thing, which is because it was.

564
00:48:17.219 --> 00:48:25.619
Whereas here, when Cassini's throwing caronic acid on... like Val kind of deflates because he's killed.

565
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:31.920
But Styke puts his hand on his head and inadvertently like squashes the mask, he presses too hard.

566
00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:34.260
And so I don't think the masks look very good.

567
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:39.480
And they're tall, you know, we never go back to that, and I don't think that matters all that much.

568
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:44.039
And they're funny and pompous and silly military characters of the kind that Holmes creates all the time.

569
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:47.219
I love stokes scenes with the 2nd doctor.

570
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.639
Like when he's saying the loneliness of command.

571
00:48:50.699 --> 00:48:53.280
And the doctor's like, why don't you retire?

572
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:55.500
I may have made a miscalculation.

573
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:56.639
He scratches his head.

574
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:59.880
But the tall thing, way back when?

575
00:49:00.059 --> 00:49:06.480
In the Time Warrior, the doctor does refer to them as being from a high gravity planet, which is why they're so short.

576
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:09.179
So if they're coming, if they know they're coming to a planet.

577
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:15.360
With lower gravity, they might breed a special tallest on Tarin.

578
00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:15.960
I mean why not?

579
00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:20.880
And also, this is the 1st time where we haven't just gone, oh, they've got a probic event.

580
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:21.719
Let's stick something in it.

581
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:23.760
Yeah, it's because they're not the monsters here.

582
00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:24.960
They're just characters.

583
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:26.820
And there's some cars...

584
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:27.539
Yeah, I do too.

585
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:28.139
I think that's great.

586
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.380
When was the last time they were in the show, the invasion of time?

587
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:33.599
Look at how great they were in that.

588
00:49:33.659 --> 00:49:35.460
Yeah, terrible masks, again.

589
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:38.460
Yeah, at least here they've got they've got character again.

590
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:44.639
Because store didn't really have a character, you know, he just got to say doctor.

591
00:49:44.699 --> 00:49:46.380
Going back to your point you made.

592
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:49.260
I love the interaction with both the 2nd doctor and the 6th doctor.

593
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:50.940
I think there's some really witty lines.

594
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:56.280
I love the fact that the 6 doctor fools them into thinking that that, the module is working, you know?

595
00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:58.679
And even as a kid, I was fooled by that.

596
00:49:58.739 --> 00:50:03.599
I thought, oh, oh, okay, it's all primed and ready to go, but of course, yeah, it's not.

597
00:50:03.659 --> 00:50:07.260
It's another thing of Holmes just helping himself to continuity.

598
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:17.400
So the time lords have symbiotic nuclei in their heads that helps them operate the TARDIS, which is something that we will never refer to again, and have never referred to before.

599
00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:19.139
But it is his usual habit.

600
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.139
I mean, he invents timelords having 2 hearts.

601
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:24.119
He invents the 12 regeneration limit.

602
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:25.860
He invents the planet Galafray.

603
00:50:25.860 --> 00:50:28.920
So here he's inventing something else.

604
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:32.219
This one doesn't take, but it is just another example of that.

605
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:35.159
Can I talk about the ratings?

606
00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:42.719
Episode one got 660000000 viewers, which is down by .7 from the previous week.

607
00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:45.179
And it placed 92nd.

608
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:54.179
Episode two, 6000000 viewers, which is the lowest rating of the season, and it came 90th.

609
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:59.579
And it's after that episode that Michael Grade axed the show.

610
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:03.539
Episode three.

611
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:10.440
6.9 million, 66th on the chart. 25 places higher.

612
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:18.599
So weird, it's all over the place, because timelash actually gets higher ratings, but its placings are all over the place as well.

613
00:51:18.659 --> 00:51:24.239
The big criticisms of Doctor Who that lead to the cancellation are happening as early as season 21, aren't they?

614
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:28.320
Things like Warriors of the D, which I didn't like very much.

615
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:36.000
But I didn't think was hugely terrible, but it does have some pretty bad production problems, like the marker.

616
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:39.599
But, you know, grades come in and, you know, he doesn't like the show.

617
00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:53.519
I mean, if you look at the ratings, if you purely, you know, 8.900000 for the 1st episode, we're now down to 6000000 with 2 doctors, you know, he's looking for ammunition, fans are already criticising it for violence, et cetera.

618
00:51:53.579 --> 00:51:56.219
And, you know, so he pulls the pin.

619
00:51:56.280 --> 00:52:03.599
Even though it's 10 weeks away from next season and they've already lined up scripts and even location work for the 1st story.

620
00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:06.599
And I believe even contracted Michael Goff.

621
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:07.739
Oh, really?

622
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:07.980
Wow.

623
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.300
What can I say?

624
00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:10.260
That's where we're at.

625
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:13.500
If the pin hadn't been pulled, Would the ratings have continued to slide?

626
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:17.519
Because actually from this point in, there's this gradual increase to the end of the season.

627
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:20.579
Yeah, because people realise, 0 my god, it's going.

628
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:21.480
You know.

629
00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:29.219
One of the criticisms Michael Gray raised. was shortly after becoming controller of BBC one.

630
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:33.900
He just switched on the TV one night, didn't actually know what was on, and it was Doctor Who.

631
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:40.440
You know, he's never gone into detail about what story it was, but he's like, Return of the Jedi has just come out.

632
00:52:40.619 --> 00:52:48.480
And we're putting out this with cardboard sets and right angles everywhere and bright flood studio lighting.

633
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.000
We can't afford to compete.

634
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.920
And that's why I cancelled it.

635
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:54.059
That's what he says.

636
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:56.760
There are more scurrilous rumours as to the reason.

637
00:52:56.820 --> 00:53:07.679
I mean, I do think that there's a general tiredness due to the fact that John Nathan Turner's been on the show since 1977.

638
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:09.179
Well, since...

639
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:10.260
Tallens of Wing China.

640
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:10.980
Dang, yeah.

641
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:11.519
76.

642
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:18.780
And so he's been doing it for a really long time, like getting on for 10 years at this point.

643
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:26.460
And he's not someone with much vision about how the show should work as television.

644
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:30.300
And no one's really thinking about why we're still doing it.

645
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:34.500
I think we've made this point before, yeah. that we're doing an out of habit.

646
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:39.179
And it really, really did need by this point a new...

647
00:53:39.179 --> 00:53:40.679
Producer and script editor.

648
00:53:40.739 --> 00:53:41.460
Yeah, yeah.

649
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:44.519
I mean, I know possibly not on this podcast.

650
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:55.739
I can't remember, but I know speaking with you guys, that I have at times compared the Matt Smith era to the Colin Baker era in that it seems to me at times you have a great actor in the role.

651
00:53:55.800 --> 00:54:00.659
But, They're not being given great material.

652
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:11.880
But I will say that one thing I could never accuse Stephen Moffatt of, is not having a clear vision of what he wants to do.

653
00:54:11.940 --> 00:54:13.920
Oh, look, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

654
00:54:14.340 --> 00:54:15.719
I don't think I would agree with that.

655
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:20.639
I think you can see Moffatt flailing and not sure of what to do.

656
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:22.380
But that's the thing.

657
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.500
JNT never seems to have a creative vision.

658
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:30.360
He leaves that up to the script editor, which, with Christopher Hamilton Bidmeade, was absolutely fine.

659
00:54:30.420 --> 00:54:35.579
I'm currently reading Totally Tasteless, the Life of John Nathan Turner by Richard Marson.

660
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:43.380
And there's a bit in that where Christopher Bidman talks about why he left the show and basically it was because, you know, he had this great vision.

661
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:53.760
He had plans for the show beyond his season that he did, but he viewed his role and sort of his role on paper was just to technically edit the scripts.

662
00:54:53.820 --> 00:54:55.980
The Doctor Who script editor is never that.

663
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.460
And he quite rightly said, look, I'm doing far more work than that.

664
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:01.019
Can I have a rise?

665
00:55:01.260 --> 00:55:11.219
And the head of cereals just said, look, It's the BBC, you know, you get paid for your bracket and he kind of said, okay, look, that is perfectly fair, but I'm going to go.

666
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:20.699
Eric Saywood, as I've said before, if he had only been script editor for 2 years, I think he would be remembered far more fondly than he is.

667
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:22.440
And I'm not saying that's a universal thing.

668
00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:31.380
I know there are people who appreciate his work greatly, just as there are people who don't rate Stephen Moffatt highly, and there are people who think he's the greatest producer of the show ever had, and there's people in between.

669
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:38.820
Eric Saywood's vision, like anyone's vision, is limited to a set amount of time.

670
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:48.719
And I think with this season, we've kind of gone, even further than the furthest we can go with it and the show is starting to repeat itself, unfortunately.

671
00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:53.219
And that's a big shame for Colin, because Colin is bringing something new, but he's bringing something new to stay on material.

672
00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:58.260
Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you about, say, but I'm going to save it for 2 episodes time.

673
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:03.599
I think say it's vision for the show is changing visibly during the Colin Baker era.

674
00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:12.960
And I think it's changing a bit for the better, but I do think all of the things, all of the horrible, horrible things I've been saying about him over the last few episodes are true.

675
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:14.699
He wasn't experienced enough.

676
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.199
He's not quite talented enough.

677
00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:22.320
He has some good instincts, like recognising that Bob Holmes is a great Doctor Who scriptwriter.

678
00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:26.940
But he's a problem and I'd like to blame him for everything.

679
00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:28.619
It's going wrong in the whole world.

680
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:31.079
Moffatt, Delta and the Bannerman.

681
00:56:31.139 --> 00:56:31.920
Yeah, global warming.

682
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:33.960
Eric Roberts.

683
00:56:53.099 --> 00:57:05.340
Well, while we go off to, um, whip up a batch of nut roast rolls, don't forget to come back to ask next week as we explore that anagrammical Doctor Who story, Shamelit.

684
00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:10.019
Until then, we will be opening a poll with this episode.

685
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:12.000
Now, quick update.

686
00:57:12.059 --> 00:57:15.119
We haven't forgotten, we've promised you a commentary on enemy of the world.

687
00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:24.659
The reason we haven't recorded that yet is a couple of weeks ago, Richard actually had an injury which has left it difficult for him to attend recording.

688
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:28.559
So we will be releasing that Patrick Trouton commentary at the end of this season.

689
00:57:28.619 --> 00:57:33.360
We will also be releasing shortly after that Our John Pertwee commentary.

690
00:57:33.420 --> 00:57:35.219
So you know how it works by now.

691
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:40.260
We've all nominated a story, and we would like you to go ahead and vote for those.

692
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:42.239
So I have nominated Spearhead from space.

693
00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:44.639
I have nominated Death to the Daleks.

694
00:57:44.699 --> 00:57:46.440
I'm going to nominate the 3 doctors.

695
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:49.019
And Richard has nominated the mutants.

696
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:52.079
So those are our 4 stories.

697
00:57:52.139 --> 00:57:55.920
No, I thought we had an agreement. 4 episodes stories only.

698
00:57:56.340 --> 00:58:00.960
You do realise that now that you've done that, everyone's going to vote for the mutants.

699
00:58:01.019 --> 00:58:03.119
I think you should cut this whole bit out.

700
00:58:03.179 --> 00:58:04.920
Yes, yes, this gets cut.

701
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:08.039
I almost nominated Inferno, but I didn't.

702
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:15.539
However, we've also thought about the fact that there's not enough Colin Baker to discuss on the podcast.

703
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:17.940
So at some point in the future.

704
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.340
We haven't decided exactly when this is gonna go out.

705
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:23.880
We are going to have a 6 doctor big finish special.

706
00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:28.440
So we're going to be reminding you every episode until then which 6 doctor stories we'll be discussing.

707
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:33.840
So we recommend you go along to the big finish website, bigfinish.com to download these.

708
00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:35.219
So Todd has nominated.

709
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:36.480
The one doctor.

710
00:58:36.539 --> 00:58:37.980
Nathan has nominated?

711
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:38.820
Jubilee.

712
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:43.619
Richard has nominated Chris Cross, which is one of the newer stories, featuring Miranda Raisin.

713
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:50.639
And I have nominated Doctor Who and the Pirates, and we will have links to all of those on the website as well.

714
00:58:50.699 --> 00:58:52.559
To stay up to date with all of that.

715
00:58:52.619 --> 00:59:00.960
Don't forget to check out flightthrough entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter, over on Bondfinger.

716
00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:03.599
We have recently finished the Roger Moore era of James Bond.

717
00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:11.099
So we have all the Roger Moores, all the Sean Connery, including Never Say Never Again, and on a Majesty's Secret Service and Casino Royale, 1967.

718
00:59:12.059 --> 00:59:16.679
So do check that out, Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

719
00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:21.719
Until we see you next week, may no one deny you your red eyebrows.

720
00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:23.159
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

721
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:23.940
Good night.

722
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:24.719
See you soon.

723
00:59:30.780 --> 00:59:37.320
That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

724
00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:42.840
This episode, let's stick something in it, was recorded on the 11th of February 2017.

725
00:59:43.019 --> 00:59:45.659
The next episode will be released on February 26th.

726
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:51.420
I taught him earwig nuclear for 6 months, and it still knows more about uranium than Donald Trump.

727
00:59:57.539 --> 01:00:00.599
Serverland is actually the only person I've ever cosplaying.

728
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:04.980
And I had like black press on nails and everything.

729
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:06.000
It was really something.

730
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:08.219
You fool.