WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:42:08 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:37.859 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who's under imminent danger foam of Bendrilops warhead. 2 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:39.420 Yes, all 500 of us. 3 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:40.079 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:40.799 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:45.359 I'm Todd, and it's that famous anagram lovers Doctor Who story, Timelash. 6 00:01:00.420 --> 00:01:21.659 You know, sometimes with the Doctor Who story, a whole heap of elements come together, and here, you know, there's the script, there's the direction, the costuming, the set design, the music, and the actors' performances all come together to make this really an utterly, utterly horrific example of mid-80s Doctor Who. 7 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:28.379 There's not a single one of those elements that even reaches a minimal level of acceptability. 8 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:35.459 And so for me, this is easily Colin Baker's worst story and one of the worst stories in Doctor Who history. 9 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:36.719 Todd. 10 00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:38.219 Okay. 11 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.299 I've criticised a lot of 80s stories and you know which ones I don't like. 12 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:46.439 For all of those elements that you have mentioned, right? 13 00:01:46.500 --> 00:01:55.920 The script falls in upon itself, the costuming and the sets and various performances, some of which I quite like and some of which I think are just terrific. 14 00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:03.840 But I can sit here and I can actually laugh away at it and enjoy, I actually quite enjoy episode one. 15 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:07.379 I think it completely collapses halfway through episode two. 16 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:12.240 If you were doing a bottom 10 of Doctor Who, it probably would make my number 10 in that list. 17 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:12.900 Right? 18 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:14.159 That's like 10th from the bottom. 19 00:02:14.219 --> 00:02:15.539 That's right. from the bottom. 20 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:21.780 But unlike other things that I've been bored through or enraged by, for me, it's not the worst thing ever. 21 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.520 What do you think is going on here? 22 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:25.199 Like, what do you think they're aiming for? 23 00:02:25.259 --> 00:02:31.199 It really is the most kind of generic set of space rebels in a bunch of space corridors. 24 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:34.860 Well, obviously they need, you know, this is the cheapy of the season, right? 25 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:38.580 So, but it's so underwritten. in that 2nd episode. 26 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.639 I mean, what is Eric Sabre doing? 27 00:02:41.699 --> 00:02:46.500 Well, obviously he's off writing revelation of the Daleks and not script editing the 2nd episode of this in any way. 28 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:48.599 Does he write the big padding scene? 29 00:02:48.659 --> 00:02:49.139 He does. 30 00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:50.099 He does. 31 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:52.500 And a phrase, I don't use very often. 32 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.020 I think this is possibly only the 3rd time in the history of the podcast. 33 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:56.520 In Eric, say with his defence. 34 00:02:56.580 --> 00:03:08.400 He did actually have to perform a ground up rewrite on this to the dialogue because the writer, Glenn McCoy, had never written for Doctor Who before and has never written for Doctor Who again. 35 00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:10.080 He did have a proper career. 36 00:03:10.139 --> 00:03:11.400 I mean he did write for things. 37 00:03:11.460 --> 00:03:15.479 He wrote 4 things like Angels, and I believe, casualty. 38 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:19.919 You know, he was an up and coming writer, and that's part of the reason that they got him in. 39 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:25.020 The problem was, of course, you know, not being very experienced with Doctor Who. 40 00:03:25.259 --> 00:03:41.699 We've also had massive problems with the previous story in broadcast 2 stories ago in production, the 2 doctors, of course, which had a rejected script from an American writer, then a rejected script from Bob Holmes because of the location change. 41 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:47.219 Eric Say would, of course, in some way or another wrote Attack of the Cybermen. 42 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:55.080 Even when this script was completed, Pennant Roberts read it, and he didn't like the way the characters spoke. 43 00:03:55.139 --> 00:04:04.080 He said, this is a completely alien planet, and apparently it was written in very human vernacular and metaphor and similarly and that sort of thing. 44 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:16.079 So Eric Zaywood had to perform that ground up rewrite while he was, well, before he went off to write Revelation, because to write Revelation, he actually had to finish his contract to script editor first. 45 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:24.000 Well, I mean, if you need the dialogue not to sound like anything an actual human being from Earth would say, Eric, say, what's the right to get? 46 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:33.600 I think one of the things that sums up this story for me is the fact that in one of those 1st sequences with the 1st mail-in and his son-in-law, what's his name? 47 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:39.060 Men and Renis, and they go into that cubicle thing. 48 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.980 Oh, the power roof. 49 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:43.860 And he pulls off the power knob. 50 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:49.199 And then, so just he puts it back on and you actually see this happening. 51 00:04:49.259 --> 00:04:51.899 How can the director not go? 52 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:52.860 That's not acceptable. 53 00:04:53.339 --> 00:04:58.560 And a big problem I have with this is a lack of establishing shots. 54 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:00.779 It's very hard to get a sense of place. 55 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.720 Like we get one establishing shot of the citadel. 56 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.300 But we have no sense of scale. 57 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:11.100 You know, we don't know how big it is aside from the fact that it's got 500 people in it. 58 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:11.699 We know that. 59 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:12.300 Thank you. 60 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.879 Tyler or God, whatever you know. 61 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:16.800 We've got horrible 2 sill names. 62 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:18.480 Oh, yeah, but that's the other thing. 63 00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:26.459 Everyone has, we had, you know, good names like Dastarian, Chesini, and we're going to have, you know, Tarkas and Lilt and Tassambika next week. 64 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:29.160 This week they all have horrific 2 syllable names. 65 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.399 They're all Kendron and Vina and Mecross and things. 66 00:05:32.459 --> 00:05:33.600 They're all sort of terrible. 67 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:46.379 And there's a terrible scene early on where Me Cross and Vina are having an argument for no reason other than to explain the structure of this society to all. the people at home. 68 00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:53.339 And I just can't possibly care about anyone on this planet. 69 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:56.279 There are 500 people in these sort of terrible space corridors. 70 00:05:56.339 --> 00:06:02.519 Later on, when we learn that the Bender Lips warhead is heading to Carfell, we learn that there are 1000000s of lives at stake. 71 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:05.519 I bet I think that's written by Eric Saywood much later. 72 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.699 But I just don't care about them. 73 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.259 They are the planet Zog. 74 00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:16.259 They're literally the Zog people being menaced by the Zog monster and I just don't care. 75 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:24.779 And there's really nothing here that we haven't seen done before a lot of times and done better. 76 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:32.699 And I do feel that Glenn McCoy has a feeling that this is the sort of thing that Doctor Who does, that does rebels in space corridors. 77 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:42.180 And it's clear that the high concept that he wants to pin this on is the time lash, and it's called time lash, and there's some timey stuff. 78 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:56.699 So when the borad shoots someone, they age, you know, the time lashes, this sort of fearsome thing, but the time lash looks like something in a light entertainment set, like something in a game show, and it's in no way impressive looking. 79 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:04.259 It's got those sort of tinsel lights, the sort of crappy sequins all over it, people just fade into it and scream. 80 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:12.420 You know, the lights go up like it's a special round on the weakest link, and that's what we're pinning it on. 81 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:15.779 And that's the only thing that distinguishes this from anything else. 82 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:27.899 And we've seen plenty of stories where the doctor comes in and overthrows for government, but the government is interesting in an interesting way or is a political satire in some way, but that's not what the show does anymore in this period. 83 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.839 So, you know, what do we learn here? 84 00:07:30.899 --> 00:07:33.180 That dictatorships are bad. 85 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:34.740 It's really so empty. 86 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:45.240 And so there are bits that are charming, and there's one character in particular, whom I like a great deal, even though I think he's a mistake in some ways. 87 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:46.560 And who is that? 88 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:48.360 I really like her, but. 89 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:50.639 I adore her, but yeah. 90 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:52.019 Why couldn't we keep him on? 91 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:53.279 He would have been a great companion. 92 00:07:53.339 --> 00:08:00.060 Look, in his 1st sequences with the doctor in that hut and he's trying to like exercise exorcise, not exercise. 93 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:01.500 Although he could do with that. 94 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.899 And then bash him with the book. 95 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:06.180 Like, I actually find it really funny and adorable. 96 00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:07.620 He's charming, isn't he? 97 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.040 And in a bumbling sort of way, and he has a great relationship with the doctor. 98 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.980 And in that hideous padding scene in episode two, which Eric Seward had to write because the episode was running under time. 99 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:23.100 Like, Colin Baker's face, when he looks at Herbert, when Herbert's doing whatever. 100 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:27.839 And it just burst out laughing. like even though like the scene is complete padding. 101 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:34.080 There's something I like about her, but I don't like the, you know, the fact that he's revealed to be HD Wells and that sort of thing is... 102 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:38.519 Well, that's the bit that I think is stupid because he's nothing at all like HG Wells. 103 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:41.340 Yeah, HG Wells was a socialist and a Hugs list. you know. 104 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:52.799 Of course, he had religion growing up in the time he grew up in, but he was not devoutly religious and certainly was not sort of conscious of devils and probably wasn't experimenting with ouija boards. 105 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:54.539 I don't believe he was ever even a teacher. 106 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:57.120 He studied to be a teacher, but he never completed. 107 00:08:57.179 --> 00:08:58.860 He was known as George. 108 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:00.720 Like he said, Herbert George Wells. 109 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:01.860 He was called George. 110 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.720 He had a northern accent, I think. 111 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:07.679 You know, like he's really nothing like her, but, and in a sense, that doesn't matter. 112 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:16.139 But if you're going to have a celebrity historical, and this is the 2nd celebrity historical this season, and the 1st time we've ever had celebrity historicals, actually. 113 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.059 Well, since Marco Polo. 114 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:19.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. 115 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.720 So there's not very much point. 116 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:40.080 In fact, I think that the point is that this lamentably bad Doctor Who story is the inspiration for the science fiction career of one of the great science fiction writers of all time, who borrows the name Vina and the Morlockses and stuff. 117 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:44.039 The Island of Dr. Monroe, Invisible Man, all of that stuff. 118 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:57.960 And look, HG Wells was capable of some really incredible crap, if you've ever read in the days of a comet, which is just rubbish, but it has a political kind of socialist message. 119 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:05.820 You know, the idea that he was in any way inspired by this dreary runaround is really just kind of insulting. 120 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.580 It's a missed opportunity, isn't it? 121 00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:18.779 The story could be political because it is about a rebellion against an oppressive government and you've got this really incredibly political science fiction writer, but we get no politics in this story. 122 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:27.480 After what you just said, I find it quite funny that this crummy doctor story actually ends up inspiring all of these works of literature. 123 00:10:27.539 --> 00:10:32.639 Like I think there's something deliciously, well, just humourous in that. 124 00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:36.480 If I was to do this, can I just indulge me for a moment? 125 00:10:36.539 --> 00:10:38.159 Yeah, sort of fantasy directing. 126 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:42.299 So somebody out there can do this for me, right? 127 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:50.940 So I'd have, I'd have Mikos and the mail in about to go into the power room, have their scene, cut to the doctor and Perry in the TARDIS. 128 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.899 They know that the time tunnel thing's there and they're heading for like doomsday. 129 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:05.159 Cut back to the mainland being taken to the Borad, cut back to the doctor impairing the TARDIS, cut back to Mikos and Vina having a bit of a conversation to set the scene. 130 00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:14.700 Cut back to the Dr. Imperi and the TARDIS cut back to the main being killed and our good friend Paul Darrow taking over, cut back to the Dr. Imperi and the TARDIS. 131 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:16.379 Like, you know, little brief snippets. 132 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:22.379 Then cut back to Paul Darrow's striding in and saying, you know, your father's dead, right? 133 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.659 Cut back to the doctor and Miriam Matata. 134 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.960 Cut back to, you know, that pathetic person that pleads for Gazak, his people. 135 00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:35.100 What's the, I don't even know what the lines of dialogue are, but you know, he pleads for his people. 136 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:39.360 He gets shoved down the time lash. doesn't it all hell break loose at that point? 137 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.100 or am I am I? 138 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:42.360 Yeah, and that's where Vina. 139 00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:44.340 Okay, steel... 140 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:45.059 Cut back to the doctor. 141 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:47.220 Imperi Natana's, Vina goes through, right? 142 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:55.200 Cut back to Carfell, and then you cut to the TARDIS coming up the corridor. 143 00:11:55.259 --> 00:11:56.639 It's just such a bad. 144 00:11:56.700 --> 00:12:06.059 But then you cut to the boy going, it appears the doctor is making a return visit to Carfell. queue opening title sequence. 145 00:12:06.179 --> 00:12:07.679 Or end of episode, right? 146 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:08.639 Right? 147 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:10.860 So you're just doing a huge edit on all of those things. 148 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:20.039 Because in that 1st sequence of stuff, you see like bland corridors of those that robot thing and people getting captured and you don't care. 149 00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:21.419 Like, I think the girl's okay. 150 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:22.980 The rebel cats. 151 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:25.080 Yeah, she's actually she's actually quite good. 152 00:12:25.139 --> 00:12:27.960 Vina, I, I'm just going to say this. 153 00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:41.460 I absolutely adore her in this entire story, the fact that she's obviously on Xanax or something, except that that one sequence where she has to get up on a chair and stop the Borhead from looking through his video monitor or whatever she does. 154 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.740 But I really love her performance. 155 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:44.759 It's just so wooden. 156 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:46.500 It's just I just love it, you know? 157 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:48.720 And then we just constantly spaced out. 158 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:51.899 And then having Nikos going, you're just a figurehead. 159 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:53.220 I love his little performance. 160 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.200 Pour down nearly acceptable. 161 00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:58.200 Nicola looks fantastic, right? 162 00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:01.679 Yeah, 1st proper decent outfit she's had. 163 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:16.440 I think the highlight scene for me, the highlight, the whole thing, which I just burst out laughing every time, is when Paul Darrow's character gets killed by the borat, and the skeleton drops to the floor, the skull goes, thump. 164 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:17.700 Thump. 165 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.620 It's a double bang on the floor. 166 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:28.080 I remember this as a kid and I just burst out laughing and I just wait for that moment every time it is the moment I wait for. 167 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:32.580 His little sidekick, Kendron, might be one of the worst before. 168 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:37.980 Like, I think he makes some Leonard Sachs look like, you know, Robert De Niro, frankly. 169 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:39.059 I have been faithful to you. 170 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.639 Doesn't the boy do obey with him too? 171 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:42.120 Yes. 172 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.360 He's got this giant IMDb page. 173 00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:46.740 He's in a Bond film. 174 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:48.600 Like he's in tomorrow, never dies. 175 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:50.940 He's in the last king of Scotland. 176 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.200 He's got a proper career. 177 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:58.679 He looks like he is from the year 10 production of an inspector calls. 178 00:13:58.740 --> 00:13:59.519 He's so bad. 179 00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:03.840 I love the fact that he's so bad and so feeble and so crap and meets that end. 180 00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:05.940 I just take perverse pleasure. 181 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:06.840 That's what I take. 182 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:12.179 The 1st pleasure, you know, performances and things in this that are just going to, that's so crap, but I'm laughing with it and going with it. 183 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.480 Pennant Roberts was actually trying to get him into Doctor Who for ages. 184 00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:22.799 He was meant to be either Tomas or Caleb in the face of evil. 185 00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.259 He was meant to be one of the principal younger men. 186 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:32.399 And I'm so glad we didn't get him because Leslie Schofield and the really hot chap who plays Tomas, whose name I can't remember. 187 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:34.379 They're perfect in those roles. 188 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.080 He's not replacing Tomas ever. 189 00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:37.740 Thank you. 190 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:38.460 Thank you. 191 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:39.720 Or David Garfield. 192 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:41.820 That was a really good looking cast. 193 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:42.419 Can we go back there? 194 00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:51.059 Something I do love in this story, though, is the HG Wells references aren't hammered into your skull. 195 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:58.620 They are subtle Easter eggs there for people who either know the works of HG Wells or... 196 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:12.240 And this is possibly a bit ambitious after they watch the story might go and read some HG Wells, which is very much in keeping with what Colin Baker wanted the program to be. wanted it to inspire children to learn new words and new ideas. 197 00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:15.840 This to me feels like a 1960s story. 198 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:21.659 This was another one I took Richard's advice and watched him black and white and it really lifts it. 199 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:31.559 Another way I look at this story to help me get through it, is it's another example, and there's so much of it this season of making it like a Shakespeare. 200 00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:34.379 So you have your principal cast. 201 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:43.320 You have the doctor, you have Perry, you have Tekka, the Borad, Herbert, and they're sort of the bigger characters and everyone else fades into the background a little bit. 202 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:46.500 Literally in the case of some of their costumes. 203 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:53.519 And Tekka's characterisation, Paul Darrow's performance is magnetic to watch. 204 00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:55.559 I really hate it. 205 00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:57.000 I really, really hate it. 206 00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:57.600 I love it. 207 00:15:57.659 --> 00:15:58.500 People going over the top. 208 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:00.120 I love Jackie Pierce last week. 209 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:01.139 I thought she was glorious. 210 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.960 He's horrible to watch. 211 00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:09.840 And they lost so much studio time because they kept having to order retakes because he was putting in even more than that. 212 00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:13.080 But I really like it. sabotaging it. 213 00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:32.580 Well, I do wonder that sometimes because famously, and we'll come back to this next week, um, this is sort of a two-part anecdote, Colin Baker played Babe in the Butcher in an episode of Blake 7 in a very similar way to Paul Darrow playing techa here, but arguably better. enjoyable in that episode. 214 00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:42.299 Well, I find Paul Darrow enjoyable here as well, but I do sometimes wonder if Paul Darrow is playing it like this because of the way Colin Baker came into his show to play that. 215 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:46.740 But I think that's an urban myth and I think it's something that people have suggested and then he's played on. 216 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:47.639 That's what I think. 217 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:53.159 I mean, the other thing is that, you know, he had an argument with John Nathan Turner about what he was doing. 218 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:55.019 Well, he wanted to be Richard III. 219 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.120 He literally wanted to have a hump. 220 00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:03.179 But I do find it so hilarious when he goes like, we'll do a tour of the citadel for your assistant. 221 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:07.079 And then he has that plant and shoves that plant into the doctor's face or whatever. 222 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:12.299 Like, these little things like that I do like, but I do get the fact that it is such an overthrop performance. 223 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.039 You're either going to... 224 00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.900 I think you can't be in the gray area. 225 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:29.220 You either really love it or you really don't, and I can understand exactly where you're coming from, but for me, it's sort of like it's the, it's one thing that keeps me glued to the screen when there's other beige sets with beige people with, you know, things I don't really care about. 226 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.059 I actually think that Colin's visibly uncomfortable acting opposite him. 227 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:36.059 And it could just be me reading into it. 228 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.160 But I just think that Colin doesn't like it. 229 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:40.019 When was this recorded in order? 230 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.240 No, it is the 2nd last story recorded? 231 00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:46.019 It is the 2nd last because suddenly Collins kind of horrible. 232 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.359 And again, I think it's Collins studio problem. 233 00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:51.900 That 1st scene with Perry and all that stuff in the TARDIS. 234 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.099 He's just obnoxious. 235 00:17:53.400 --> 00:18:02.279 I put that down again to say word and having to have these delaying tactics before we get to whatever and it's another one of these bitch scenes. 236 00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:04.500 I don't think it's as bad as Varos. 237 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.700 But it is like, okay, at this point in the season, we don't really need it anymore. 238 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:09.660 No, that's right. 239 00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:11.819 It was actually even worse in the script. 240 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:15.660 There's a line in the script to the effect of... 241 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:22.799 The doctor says, while Perry's in the room, but not directly to her, This girl vexes me so much, I might as well kill myself. 242 00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:25.319 Well, I'm glad they didn't do that. 243 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:29.819 Well, it's Pennant Roberts, Colin Baker, and Nicola Bryant just said, no, we're not doing this anymore. 244 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:36.180 For me, there's only one bit of that scene that's really bad and that's when he screams bad at her and she cringes. 245 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.980 You know, that's really horrible. 246 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:45.660 The rest of it, I don't mind so much like when he's giving this description of this place and she's like, that's exactly what you say about the eyebrow. 247 00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:46.619 And he has a tank. 248 00:18:46.680 --> 00:19:01.019 And another thing I actually really love is the beginning of that padding scene where Perry's insisting on coming with him and they're actually showing genuine concern and affection for one another. 249 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:09.180 And it's it's a really good balance for the characters because it's it's sort of the equivalent of that scene in the hand of fear where I worry about you, but I worry about you. 250 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:13.259 But these 2 characters would never quite put it in those words. 251 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.900 They're both a little bit too proud. 252 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.759 So it turns into an argument. 253 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:24.660 But I agree with you, and I do like that bit because you know the doctor is concerned and wants her out of the Tartar, in case he doesn't come back. 254 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.220 And I do like that bit of it. 255 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:38.220 The thing that gets to me is the fact that episode one was overrunning by several minutes, and Pennant Roberts wanted to move the cliffhanger earlier, he felt there was a point and the rest of that stuff could go into episode 2 and they wouldn't be a problem. 256 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:40.500 John Nathan Turner wouldn't have it. 257 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:47.640 Yeah, because the episode cliffhanger had to be the doctor in peril, where Pennant wanted to move it was Perry in peril. 258 00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:54.779 It was the scene where they're in the caves and she realises she's dropped the note and the guards burst in and shoot one of the rebels. 259 00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:57.420 And Pennant said, look, I've got these shots. 260 00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.519 I can make it look like Perry's been shot. 261 00:19:59.579 --> 00:20:03.960 Like Tomb of the Cybermen, episode 3 where we don't know who's been shot. 262 00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:06.299 And it's like, actually, that would have worked. 263 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:13.799 But instead, yeah, they had to cut stuff out of episode one to make it fit and then put this stuff into episode two. 264 00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:28.859 Even then, there was some stuff they managed to move out of episode one into episode two, like Perry being dragged along to the Morlocks, but that creates this kind of weird thing where she's dragged along and tied up near a Morlocks, and then she's dragged back to a cell, and then she's dragged back to the Morlocks again. 265 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:30.779 I hate that. 266 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.259 I hate that she has a thing around her neck and she's being dragged along. 267 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:44.220 I think that this story, it may be, apart from that scene in Twin Dilemma, might be the worst treatment that Perry receives. 268 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.960 It's the 2nd time this season where she's going to be transformed into something against her will. 269 00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:56.160 She's tied up and menaced by the least convincing alien threat since... 270 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:57.779 Brontosaur penis head. 271 00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.579 Yeah, it's awful. 272 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:05.160 And it is like you joke about, you know, brontosaur penis head, but it is phallic. 273 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.500 It is, you know, a phallus tentatus. 274 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.640 She is pathetic in her response to it. 275 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.940 She just screams until a man comes along and rescues her. 276 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:23.279 And kudos to Herbert, who I think is lovely and gets to have a hero moment there rescuing Perry, but it's just pathetic that Perry needs rescuing again. 277 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:27.599 And the threat is she's going to be forced to breed with the Borad. 278 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:45.779 So it's sexual, you know, and when she says, don't I get a say in this at the very end, and the doctor says, no, of course not, shut up, which is meant to be a funny line, Colin delivers it that way, it's just a little bit depressing, but that's exactly the point. 279 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:54.000 And this is where the whole thing falls down is because the moment she goes on the tour of the citadel, she's just then there's a victim, right? 280 00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:57.420 Which is so 1960s and should not be now in the 1980s. 281 00:21:57.539 --> 00:21:59.700 Even the 1960s didn't do it that much. 282 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.339 But the Borads plan is insane. 283 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:11.579 Like, he's not even going to breed with a person from his own planet, and it all comes down to the fact that this gas and the thing has to attack her at the, like, there's no scientific, reasonable rhyme. 284 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:13.319 The doctor even calls him out on that. 285 00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:16.619 You know, he says that's hardly a scientific experiment. 286 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:17.460 Where's your control? 287 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:23.220 Couldn't he clone a whole bunch of borants as well, given that he has a few spares in his closet somewhere? 288 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.220 Do you know, every time I watch this story, I forget the terrific plot trist that he's cloned himself, right? 289 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.299 I always forget, and then it's like, well, we've got 15 minutes to go, what's going to happen? 290 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.319 Then suddenly it's a clone and I'm going, every time I watch it, I forget. 291 00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:40.019 Yeah, and is that with a different coloured eye as well? 292 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.259 I think the makeup, I think the makeup on the borat. 293 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.160 Yeah, is great. 294 00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.140 And his performance is great. 295 00:22:46.140 --> 00:23:00.539 And I love his little set thing, you know, you know, I do like that set and I don't mind not in the timelash set, which looks like, but that other big set, like, is quite good, but then all the other sets are just rubbish. 296 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.960 But I like the Borad stuff. 297 00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:04.680 Okay? 298 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.079 I do like Paul Darrow at times. 299 00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:11.640 I think Colin gives a good performance in what is a terrible script. 300 00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:18.059 But when we're in the time lash room and the doctor has the crystal thing, okay? 301 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:20.220 So he stands there and he turns it off, right? 302 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.619 Now, surely it should then project him there. 303 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.480 He should move away to the console. 304 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.839 The bride should then fire the laser to this projection. 305 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:31.019 Then the doctor should move to the console, we should fire it there. 306 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:36.299 So he's actually not in the beam, but the way it shot is he's still standing as the beam goes through him. 307 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.099 So he should technically drop dead. 308 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:39.119 It's wrong. 309 00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:47.819 We've had a 15, 20 minute scene of him explaining how that thing works and then it doesn't work directed incorrectly. 310 00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:49.319 He is shot with that beam. 311 00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:50.220 It's really bad. 312 00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:55.680 I don't understand how the director could get it that wrong in that sequence. 313 00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:56.640 It's really an app. 314 00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:10.799 I actually think that there is something slightly sweet about that and that he has a gun that sends you back in time and he has a magic time crystal that does things and clearly the story was meant to be about a society that uses time as a weapon or something like that. 315 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:18.539 Yeah, in Glenn McCoy's original outline, there was a lot more about time and also his original outline was a Dalek story. 316 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:25.920 The Daleks were going to be the bandrels invading this planet, and it was going to be about the car felons fighting them off, and Eric Saywood said, no, sorry, I'm writing the Dalek story. 317 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:28.140 So that didn't happen. 318 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:29.880 Oh, the banjals. 319 00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:31.380 The bandreals are coming. 320 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.119 The glove puppets are coming. 321 00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:34.980 I love the bandals. 322 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.759 They are actually 30 foot tall cyborg. 323 00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:44.339 I love them and I love all that stuff and I also love, you may remember this. 324 00:24:44.400 --> 00:25:05.759 Friends of the podcast, Simon Moore, Peter Griffithson, I think Kate Orman, back many years ago, when they was film students, did a re-edit of that, and Simon had a sock on his hand, and so he does the whole Bandral thing with this sock, and I just let, and the final sequence was when it drops out of sight reminds me of the drashings. 325 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:09.000 I wish I had I think I've got it on video. 326 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.220 I need to dig it up, but it was just so funny. 327 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.380 Like, I love the band draws. 328 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:25.200 But in that padding scene, the doctor could have explained something about using the crystal to deflect the, you know, just some bit of dialogue in there rather than what we get when he gets back and he says to Perry, oh, I'll tell you later. 329 00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:28.079 We get no explanation as to how that happens. 330 00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:34.680 And I just sit there going, if you're going to write a padding scene, give me some scientific, you know, mumbo jumbo. 331 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:35.160 Give me something. 332 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.640 And there was, in the script, there was a technobabble explanation. 333 00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:42.420 It still didn't make any sense, but there's no reason to cut it. 334 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:44.880 I mean, Colin Baker was not John Bertwick. 335 00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:47.279 Colin Baker could do techno babble, for God's sake. 336 00:25:47.339 --> 00:26:01.500 Speaking of which, this is the other thing that gets to me with this story. is the fact that we have to then have this continuity thing where it's referencing a previous adventure that the perjury doctor has gone on, which no one has ever seen. 337 00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:06.299 Like, you know, I'm sure when they pitch this, they might have thought, oh, fans will get something out of this. 338 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:12.720 Ooh, it's an adventure we've never seen, but to the general public, they'd be going like, well, you know, it's an alienating thing. 339 00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:14.099 It's another continuity thing. 340 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:25.559 And the fact that M Perry has to be versed in having like who Joe Grant is and we have to have the locket with Joe. And then it seems at one moment, there's one companion, but in the dialogue, it's like, oh, there's only one of you this time. 341 00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:26.880 So there must have been somebody else. 342 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:28.259 Mike Yates. 343 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:30.660 Well, that's the only one that could be, you know? 344 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.960 I think Paul Cornell reconed that in speed of flight. 345 00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:35.579 I think that was written by Paul Cornell. 346 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:43.019 And at the end, sort of, that's Mike Yates going off and having an adventure with the doctor and Joe, and at the end, they're heading to Carfell in the epilogue. 347 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:43.680 Oh wow. 348 00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:50.400 But, you know, as a kid, I kind of liked, you know, the shattering of the mirror wall or whatever it is and the picture of them. 349 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:53.700 Like, I liked that, like, as a little nerd fanboy. 350 00:26:53.759 --> 00:27:07.680 But I think it's just, it robs, it robs the story of them having to prove who they are to the rebels or to who's trying to overthrow and, and I just don't like that in Doctor Who, where it's some person we've met before. 351 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:09.240 Like it's just a shorthand. 352 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.140 It's just a shorthand to get into it without really having a payoff. 353 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.400 There's a real problem we've said before about continuity in this era. 354 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:21.960 And I've said that when they do it, they get it wrong like last week. 355 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.680 And now here we have just completely invented continuity. 356 00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:43.380 And, you know, if having continuity references has any value at all, and, you know, the new series has shown that it does, is that you get a flicker of recognition from longtime fans, you know, I love the recreation of the 1st doctor's TARDIS console room towards the end of series nine. 357 00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:52.259 I thought that stuff was really great But here, now we're inventing continuity and putting it in and it's hard to know what possible reason we could have it. 358 00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:58.619 And I think it is because Glenn McCoy has got the idea that that's the sort of thing that Doctor Who does. 359 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.259 Yeah, I remember years ago. 360 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:06.420 When Doctor Who magazine started doing their special editions, they do 3 of a year. 361 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.740 Their 1st run was special editions based on the doctors. 362 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:17.099 So there was the complete 6th doctor, and the forward, I believe, was written by Gareth Roberts. 363 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:28.079 And he has a wonderful line in that where he says, in this era of the show, the doctor becomes the show's fetishistic raison d'etre. 364 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:38.160 And if you look at this past season and the twin dilemma, Vengeance on Baros is the only story where people don't know who Time Lords are. 365 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:40.799 Yeah, that's boring, isn't it? 366 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:44.700 I hate the constant references to regeneration that we get throughout this year. 367 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.779 You know, it just reminds us that Colin never gets to be the doctor. 368 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:55.799 He's always the 6th doctor and even that terrible, terrible nickname for him that you used the other day in chat. 369 00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:56.400 What, 60? 370 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:05.160 Yeah, don't ever say that in my presence again. acknowledges the fact that he's just one of many doctors and the references to regeneration do that as well. 371 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:07.380 And I hate it. 372 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.039 Yeah. 373 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:14.400 I mean, the bit with the Borat referring to his ability to regenerate, like that won't save you. 374 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:19.920 That was put in, you know, because fans might object, but I think it's something that takes you out of the moment. 375 00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:31.500 It's kind of like at every episode ending and every time the doctor's under threat, we have to shoehorn some dialogue in explaining, yes, we're aware that the doctor regenerates, you know, like, do we have to do that? 376 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:36.180 The show got on for like 14, 15, 16 years without it. 377 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:45.779 And, you know, we've got the continuity of the doctor having met the Borad when he was a scientist, some sort of past history that, you know, really in the end means nothing. 378 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:46.500 Yeah. 379 00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:50.220 It would be an interesting touch if we didn't do it so often already. 380 00:29:50.339 --> 00:30:02.339 Like, you know, in recent stories we've had as male, we've had the cyber controller, who we're meant to believe, at least in mind, is the same cyber controller, as the doctor had previously met, we've had the master and the Rani. 381 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.099 We've had Destari, who's an old friend of the doctors. 382 00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:10.380 In a way, it's a bit more valid in the story because this story needs a bit more depth. 383 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.380 But as you say, it doesn't mean much in the end. 384 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:18.420 You know, it's just this line of, yes, we've met before, doctor, and it's like, well, so bloody what? 385 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:29.460 You know, I really would, I really think if they'd done a complete edit of this whole thing, like as a, as a 45 minute or 50 minute episode and really cut it down, a 10 minute children in need episode. 386 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.640 Well, yes, that's extreme. 387 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:43.259 Like, you know, the edit that I was talking about earlier, but then going through part 2 and just really just it's the borat and it's the missile coming and just leave it at that and really cut it back. 388 00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:48.299 You might have something that's acceptable and ditch a lot of this other continuity stuff. 389 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:53.819 I mean, all the stuff with the rebels and the Felch and rocks and that sort of thing is just like... 390 00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:55.200 Like, who cares? 391 00:30:55.259 --> 00:31:03.299 You know, there is one thing this story gets right that rarely gets done right in this era and that's letting the doctor solve the problem. 392 00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:05.700 And so the doctor does something clever. 393 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:12.900 He tricks the borad into shooting himself with his own laser, so he defeats him without, you know, just gunning him in the face. 394 00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:19.920 Then he sacrifices himself to save them from the oncoming missile. 395 00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:23.099 You know, he does have a proper role in resolving the story. 396 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:33.599 The oncoming missile, though, is absolutely ruined by the fact that there is that 10 minute padding scene in the middle of it that robs it of any urgency whatsoever. 397 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:38.519 So the missiles coming, but we have time to bitch and talk in the TARDIS for ages and ages. 398 00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:41.099 Yeah, I find that scene so charming. 399 00:31:41.160 --> 00:32:04.440 You know, it's almost the opposite of that 7 minute scene I mentioned last week in Dastari's office, which had a few moments of charm. but just feels like it should have been interspersed with other things, whereas having this almost in real time with just one cutaway back there, it lets George Chandler as Herbert shine a little bit more as well because he goes from being all gung-ho and oh, we're going to save the world too. 400 00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.000 Oh, I didn't realise we were going to die. 401 00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:08.339 I sit between you two. 402 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.720 Like, I mean, I know it's padding. 403 00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:15.180 There's parts of it that I like and there's other parts where I'm going to go, like, give me more, give me explanations, that sort of thing. 404 00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:20.579 I think it just robs the story of pace at a time when it really needs it because that's a really dramatic bit. 405 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.839 There's no music either. 406 00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:27.720 I think the music here is extremely inept, but there's no music there to help sell it. 407 00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:31.980 You know, like we're all in terrible danger, but it's all word peril. 408 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.799 We just have the banjals telling us they've sent a missile. 409 00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:37.619 We have a lot of standing around in the TARDIS talking about this terrible missile. 410 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:38.519 All of that. 411 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:40.799 We only have the budget for one bandrol ship. 412 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:46.200 So the other 2 ships of the fleet are represented by little green asterisks. 413 00:32:46.259 --> 00:33:00.359 The music is by Elizabeth Parker, who, unless I'm very much mistaken, is Doctor Who's 1st female incidental music composer, I know we've had like the Delian mode in Inferno, but that wasn't written specifically for it. 414 00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:06.119 And I think she may remain to date, Doctor Who's only female music composer. 415 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.920 And she's not back again, is she ever? 416 00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:08.640 No, no. 417 00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.440 But she had done a lot of work on Blake 7. 418 00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:20.700 Yeah, in fact, there's only one episode of Blake 7 that isn't scored by Dudley Simpson, and that's the episode that Dougie Campfield directs called Duel in season one. 419 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.940 Of course, Dougie Campfield wouldn't have anything to do with Dudley Simpson. 420 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.759 And so Elizabeth Parker does do the incidental music on that. 421 00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:28.559 Right, just the one episode then. 422 00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:30.960 But you did do sound and stuff, I think. right. 423 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:36.240 I have to say, I do like the fact that the doctor and Perry are pleased to see each other at the end. really nice. you know? 424 00:33:36.299 --> 00:33:37.200 It's nice moment. 425 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:45.359 Now, can you tell me what the fake cliffhangers are for episode one and 3 in the Australian edits? 426 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:50.339 Is it, it appears the doctor is making return visit or have I got that wrong? 427 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.240 I thought it was just before that I thought it was. 428 00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:55.619 And don't go wandering off. 429 00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:56.099 Yes, sir. 430 00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:58.319 Yeah. 431 00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:00.000 And what about in episode three? 432 00:34:00.059 --> 00:34:01.799 Is it Perry versus the Morlocks? 433 00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:02.759 Is that a cliffhanger? 434 00:34:02.819 --> 00:34:03.299 Yes. 435 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.359 So that at least feels like a proper cliffhanger. 436 00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:10.440 And it kind of has her scream leading into the cliffhanger. 437 00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:10.860 Right. 438 00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:13.500 And the actual cliffhanger in the middle is... 439 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:14.760 He's also going into the time lash. 440 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:15.719 Goodbye, doctor. 441 00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.559 Unpleasant journey with a close-up on Colin's face. doing that tongue thing. 442 00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:20.639 Yeah. 443 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.280 Oh, I'm in the pain is never... 444 00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:25.739 And we get a crash zoom on the time. 445 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:26.699 Timelash as well. 446 00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.519 Oh, can I just say another continuity thing? 447 00:34:29.579 --> 00:34:31.320 Another continuity thing, right? 448 00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:39.420 So the time lash, like the doctor suffers the terrible threat that he might end up in 12th century Scotland or something. you know, and we already kind of know that. 449 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.840 At the end, the Borad goes through the time, she should do and ends up as the Loch Ness Monster. 450 00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:50.039 Because we've never had a Doctor Who story that explains the Loch Ness monster before. 451 00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:54.780 Not only do we have 3 Atlantis, we now have 2 Loch Ness Monsters. 452 00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:56.340 It's Doctor Who, it's imperfect. 453 00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:57.300 I laugh at that. 454 00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:58.139 Okay, I agree. 455 00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:59.099 I agree. 456 00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:03.780 But it's something that you think that they would they care about that in this year. 457 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:04.800 So why are they doing that? 458 00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:05.940 Where's Ian Levine? 459 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:06.719 he on holiday? 460 00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:11.940 Fans pointed that out and John Nathan Turner's response was exactly what you just said, well, there's 2 of them now. 461 00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:15.599 Right. lovely. 462 00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:16.199 Lovely. 463 00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:19.500 Something this story comes in for criticism of. 464 00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:23.039 I don't think I've said this explicitly, but yeah, I quite enjoy this one. 465 00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:30.780 I enjoy it more than the 2 doctors, but something the story comes into criticism of is the doctor's dispatching of the 2nd Borad. 466 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.239 Well, in a sense, I don't mind that. 467 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:40.500 And there is something fairy tale about him being defeated by the side of a mirror, and it really, you know, the story is leading up to it. 468 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:51.059 It's laid in the mirror thing, it's deliberately designed sets that look incredibly boring and dull as Perry points out because of the mirror thing and his anxiety about how he looks. 469 00:35:51.119 --> 00:36:02.099 And so, like, I've already talked about the awful dialogue between the doctor and Perry and the fact that once again, Perry's going to be forcibly bred with an all of that's awful. 470 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:17.400 But, you know, like, I think that having him shrinking away from the mirror is fine, I think there's no way that he can't end up being pushed in the timelash, you know, the narrative, just, yeah, heading towards that. 471 00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:28.860 Yeah, I mean, some people have said he's bullying the Borat based on his looks and I watched this story in a new light this time based on current political events. 472 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.880 Tekka is Trump because Tekka has no idea how to do his job. 473 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:39.000 So he just makes grandiose claims and calls up their nearby allies and says, no, we're not going to give you any grain. 474 00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:40.019 Sure, what are you going to do? 475 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:41.219 Bomas kind of thing. 476 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.659 Whereas. 477 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:43.559 So who's the Borat? 478 00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:44.460 Well, that's the thing. 479 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:45.480 I was looking at... 480 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:46.320 Steve Bannon. 481 00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:48.599 I was looking at that scene going. 482 00:36:48.659 --> 00:36:53.400 People always say, is it all right for the doctor to throw the ball out in the time lash. 483 00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:56.880 And another part of my brain just said, is it all right to punch a Nazi in the face? 484 00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:59.159 And it's like, well, you know what? 485 00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:02.460 It's always all right for the doctor to throw a dictator down a pit. 486 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:03.239 Yeah, yeah. 487 00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:06.480 And we might look at that and go, well, the doctors can be violent. 488 00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:07.980 Well, what else is he going to do in that situation? 489 00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.679 We keep coming back to this with Colin? 490 00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:13.019 And it's a way it didn't quite happen with Peter. 491 00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.920 I know you kind of raised Nathan that, for instance, in Resurrection of Dialect. 492 00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.260 It's a situation the doctor shouldn't be put in. 493 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:24.539 Whereas in these situations where Colin has to attack cybermen or Shockeye or the Borad. 494 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:31.260 It feels like more of a natural progression than the doctor saying I have to go kill Davros. 495 00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:43.500 Yeah, it's a situation he has to react to, which in itself is a problem, which the next script editor will seek to redress, that the doctor is a reactionary character now. 496 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:52.440 I think that pushing the Borad isn't really particularly violent, and it's more like tripping Eldred with your scarf, you know? 497 00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:55.860 Yeah, it's very different from sort of gunning someone in the face, I think. 498 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.219 And even different from poisoning shock eye last week. 499 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:01.260 I think it's hard to object to. 500 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.219 One of the puzzling things in this story for me as a kid was the robot. 501 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.960 And the fact that the burning one gets sent back in time. 502 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:11.159 Actually, I quite like that. 503 00:38:11.219 --> 00:38:12.900 I think it's good. 504 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:17.400 Like, I like it now, but I never understood as a kid that there were actually different ones. 505 00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:19.019 I just thought it was the same one. 506 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.480 And so it always confused me. 507 00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:27.599 And dear listeners, this was the 1st time I actually worked it out that it was actually a different one. 508 00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:28.980 The 1st time. 509 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.500 Bestie doesn't say very much, does she? 510 00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:32.400 No she doesn't. 511 00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:33.000 Oh dear. 512 00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:35.760 Okay, ratings. 513 00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:38.039 I just want to take a moment. 514 00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:42.719 I'd like to apologise to the 1000000s of people who saw this on 1st transmission. 515 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:47.820 Well, believe it or not, episode one, got 6.7 million. 516 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:52.559 So 200,000 less people than the previous week. decided not to tune in. 517 00:38:52.619 --> 00:39:01.500 But that did put it 69th on the chart for the week, which is, you know, still above Attack of the Cybern in part one, which got 8.9 million. 518 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:08.880 So, episode 2 then jumps up to 7.4, which I think is the weaker episode of the 2 by far. 519 00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:12.300 But it falls 10 places on the chart to 79th. 520 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:25.500 So again, as I said previously, what's going on, like everything's all over the place, but suddenly, since the cancellation, which was at 6 million, we're now back to 7.4 million. 521 00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:27.119 So interesting. 522 00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.840 Bit of a rise, but for the completely the wrong episode. 523 00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:37.440 Maybe they liked episode one, you know, these things, you'd like an episode, people tune in, and then episode 2 of train wreck. 524 00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.559 There are still things I like in episode two, though, that we haven't talked about. 525 00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:48.539 Like, I actually really like the bit where they lock themselves up in the time lash room. 526 00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:55.199 As a kid, I had no, I loved the journey inside the time lash, that felt dynamic and exciting to me as a child. 527 00:39:55.260 --> 00:40:05.760 I look at it now and yes, I can see the bloody gaffer tape holding on the stanchions and I know that Colin was being slowly emasculated by a Kirby harness. 528 00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:12.000 They're all kind of rubbing themselves in a suggestive way up and down these sort of polystyrene crystals. 529 00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:17.400 You remember when the John Nathan Turner era was really visually inventive? 530 00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:23.579 Remember we would get Peter Grimwade in and do something really remarkable with the way the show looked? 531 00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:29.639 This looks vastly worse than the show did back when Graham Williams had no money. 532 00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:39.239 Yeah, I think what's really coming back to bite John Nathan Turner. is his reluctance to use people with more experience than himself. 533 00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:46.559 And, you know, slowly we've seen he's escalated a disagreement with Peter Grimwade into him never directing for the show again. 534 00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:48.480 And they're never writing for the show again. 535 00:40:48.539 --> 00:40:54.420 Yeah, well, and even then when he did write one more script, it was only because Eric Saywood went behind JNT's back. 536 00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:03.300 You know, we've lost Lovett, Bickford and Paul Joyce, who were the best directors of his 1st season, but it was just kind of like, well, no, they've taken too much time. 537 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:04.800 It's like rather than work with them. 538 00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:06.300 They were just never invited back again. 539 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:18.360 And instead, we get Ron Jones and Peter Moffat keep getting work and Pennant Roberts, who is not necessarily a bad director, but by this point is incredibly lacklustre. 540 00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:25.679 You know, I think the only story he's really put in an amazing amount of work visually was the face of evil. 541 00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:29.820 He's another one who's an actor's director, but you know, you look at the sun makers. 542 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.159 You look at Warriors of the Deep. 543 00:41:32.219 --> 00:41:36.059 He doesn't really care that much about set design so long as he's got a set to shoot. 544 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:50.579 But what you've got here in this season is I think every other story, for me in this season, has, has, I think, interesting sets and good location work and there's theatrics and I like, like every other one. 545 00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:57.960 This one, it's sort of like, okay, we spent our money on everything else and the thing coming up, there is no money, right? 546 00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:01.199 We've only got these big sets that we can't do much with. 547 00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:06.360 And again, as you were saying, like he's casting people who just aren't delivering performances. 548 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.300 And that combined with the script. 549 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:12.119 I'm going, that's what you said at the beginning, all these things mount up. 550 00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:17.159 I don't mind Collins coating this because it's very colourful compared to everything else. 551 00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:21.000 Everything else. it's not on earth, so it tends to work. 552 00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:33.659 I've spent a lot of this podcast criticising a lot of elements, but I will say this, that when I actually did watch it, I actually enjoyed large chunks of it, and then there are other things that I just think need to be edited out. 553 00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:41.579 Like 35 minutes of this needs to be edited out and all the peri stuff needs to be edited out and it just needs, you know, to make something that's better. 554 00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:43.440 I don't particularly hate it. 555 00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:47.639 But there are just all of these problems. 556 00:42:47.699 --> 00:42:54.960 But I've defended John Nathan Turner's ability to handle money and get things done, but in this case, that is not the case. 557 00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.119 Is he just tired? 558 00:42:57.179 --> 00:43:04.380 Why would you as the producer allow this to be as visually a train wreck as it is? 559 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:15.659 Look, I think he's learned something from the previous year, at least, where their big blockbuster story is at least the last story of this season instead of the 2nd last one. 560 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:22.079 And, you know, we were mystified by just the horrific cheapness of the twin dilemma. 561 00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:28.320 Now we've got horrific cheapness, but at least it's not being done at the end of the season. 562 00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:31.260 So it's hidden in the 2nd last story. 563 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:35.820 This is the Doctor Who equivalent of what they will come to call on Star Trek, a bottle show. 564 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:43.260 So there were scripts written for Star Trek Next Generation, which is now only 2 years away as we talk about the story. 565 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:49.440 There were scripts written for that which were specifically designed to use standing sets and maybe one planet set. 566 00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:55.739 Now, very often what they would do for those shows is they would do something character based, something philosophical. 567 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:05.820 A very good early one is called where silence has lease, where they're at the mercy of this intelligence, which is, which is testing and trialling them. 568 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.099 I know not everyone considers it to be brilliant. 569 00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.159 That thing with a cat face, is it? 570 00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:12.239 Yeah, Gila. 571 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:14.460 Oh, Brandon. 572 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.300 But the thing is, Doctor Who could have done something like that for once. 573 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:26.400 It could have done a whole story set in the Tartar, which we hadn't had for a while, you can still have guest actors and you can make it interesting and trippy. 574 00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.119 But instead they do this 1960 story. 575 00:44:30.179 --> 00:44:40.920 If you look at this like a 1960s story, I think you enjoy it a lot more, but as you said earlier, Nathan, there's no excuse for why we're doing a 1960s story. 576 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:51.300 The corridors outside of the borad and that main timelash set are lamentable and all of the caves are just useless. 577 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:58.380 And that, the caves need to, we needed 2 days of location work on caves to just to try and lift it. 578 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:07.500 You know, you might remember back in the dawn of time when we were doing Planet of the Daleks, and all of a sudden, they're outdoors for one sequence. 579 00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:09.300 For the ice cano or something like that. 580 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:11.400 And it just breaks that, you know? 581 00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:17.219 And this script needed to be written so that you could film it indoors completely and that is not the case. 582 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:23.400 I think if we're going to the 60s, and I think the nearest analogue for this is probably the savages. 583 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:31.559 And I think the savages as a story is absolutely superior to this in every possible respect. 584 00:45:31.980 --> 00:45:33.780 It had a message. 585 00:45:33.780 --> 00:45:38.340 Yeah, it actually had a proper political message and this liked that. 586 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.320 It had memorable characters. 587 00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:47.280 It even had a little sword of character arc for Stephen, but it was just so much better done. 588 00:45:47.340 --> 00:46:04.860 And I think by now, we've had all of these elements so many times, our expectations that the program will be inventive and will say something worth saying, our expectations that that will happen have virtually evaporated by now. 589 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:15.360 And I think that we're trudging towards the end of the program and something needs to happen to the creative team, to save it from disaster. 590 00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:19.980 Yeah, I feel like this tries to have a message about Daytones. 591 00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:24.119 With the whole, there's a nuclear missile coming and it's going to wipe us out. 592 00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:32.699 But there's perhaps one flicker of that in one scene, it's so thin, you know, it yeah, exactly. 593 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.559 Not firing missiles at people is good, not having missiles fired at you is good. 594 00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:41.639 Those are important messages that we can take from timelash. 595 00:46:41.699 --> 00:46:48.059 You know, that's something the script could have been hinged around and we could have, like the rebels are just rebelling because they're rebels. 596 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:54.900 If the rebels had been rebelling because we know we're on the brink of war and we could be annihilated and we must find a way to make peace. 597 00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:56.880 All of a sudden, you have a story arc. 598 00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:00.960 And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with that idea. 599 00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:02.699 Why they rebelling? 600 00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:03.239 Exactly. 601 00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:13.199 You know, were there other scripts sitting in Eric Saywood's desk at the time that were better than this that could have been made? 602 00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:15.900 With some editing. 603 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:18.420 Now, I know big finish have done a season of missing episodes. 604 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:20.880 I think Song of the Magatra was there. 605 00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:22.019 I think there was... 606 00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:25.079 Song of the Space Whale, which is Song of the Menapjra. 607 00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:27.840 And Leviathan, which is another one. 608 00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:34.199 I don't want to go into too much detail of this because I think we're going to do a podcast on the missing. season coming up. 609 00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:36.000 But there are scripts there. 610 00:47:36.179 --> 00:47:41.460 Now, whether it's because of budget, like they're too bit expensive. 611 00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:45.960 But then to say we're still going to go ahead with this. 612 00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:49.559 Look, I don't hate the whole thing. 613 00:47:49.619 --> 00:47:55.199 I can actually honestly sit down and watch this, unlike other Davison's that I never want to watch again. 614 00:47:55.260 --> 00:48:01.619 I would sit down and watch this and I can laugh with it and laugh at it, but there are bits where I have to fast forward, right? 615 00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.820 Yeah, it's not the worst of the worst for me, but it's very cheap on every level. 616 00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:38.639 Thankfully, dear listeners, we're departing the planet car fell, and unlike doctor in this story, we're actually gonna go rescue all those poor buggers who were in 12th century Scotland. 617 00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:43.079 But do come back next week as we wrap up this season with Revelation of the Daleks. 618 00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:50.039 Until then, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entire he.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 619 00:48:50.099 --> 00:49:00.059 Over on Bondfinger, we either will shortly be starting or have just started the lengthy Timothy Dalton era of Bond films, and you can find all preceding Bond films there as well. 620 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:03.900 Bondfinger.com Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes, Bondfingercast on Twitter. 621 00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:08.820 Don't forget you can vote for your choice of pertwee commentary. 622 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:20.760 The choices are Spearhead from Space, the Mutants, the 3 Doctors, and Death to the Daleks, and also we have our upcoming Colin Baker Big Finish special episode. 623 00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:27.539 So try to get yourself some copies of Jubilee, the one doctor, Doctor Who, and the Pirates, and Chris Cross. 624 00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:32.820 Until next week, may none of your Androids be confusingly played by the same actor. 625 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:34.139 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 626 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:34.800 Good night. 627 00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:36.539 See you at the Falchion Rock. 628 00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:45.059 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley, and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 629 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:49.079 This episode, Planet Zog, was recorded on the 11th of February 2017. 630 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:52.139 The next episode will be released on the 5th of March. 631 00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:59.400 Nearing retirement age, why not start a new life on the planet Carfell. 632 00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:06.059 It's a beautiful place, and its complete lack of reflective surfaces means that you won't even realise when you start to really let yourself go. 633 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:09.119 I think that's probably it. 634 00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:10.079 Yeah, that's good. 635 00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:11.460 I'm actually just looking up. 636 00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.039 Missing stories from season 22. 637 00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:16.199 We could have had the 1st Sontarans. 638 00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:19.079 But they wouldn't have done that because they've just had this on Tyrance. 639 00:50:19.139 --> 00:50:21.719 And there's one by, isn't there one by JP Hammond or something? 640 00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:22.980 That's next season. 641 00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:26.340 We could have had the Guardians of Prophecy, which big finish, mate. 642 00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:26.880 Terrible. 643 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.340 The Johnny Burn. 644 00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:30.059 That's awful. 645 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:31.079 Hexagora. 646 00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:33.960 Well, what became Hexagonora? 647 00:50:34.019 --> 00:50:39.000 Um, There just must have been... 648 00:50:39.059 --> 00:50:41.519 The other scripts must have been too expensive to make. 649 00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:42.239 That's all I can say. 650 00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:52.860 I think it's probably that thing about not hiring like Nathan Turner's reluctance to hire good riders because he was threatened by them. threatened by them, rather, you know, it's like we need new people. 651 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.659 The whole thing's gone horribly toxic. 652 00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:01.679 And we've criticised Eric Saywood a lot, but I think, you know, I mean, I love this season. 653 00:51:01.739 --> 00:51:03.599 Like I've, you know, I've said it a 1000 times. 654 00:51:03.659 --> 00:51:04.139 I still love it. 655 00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:04.800 I love it. 656 00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:09.059 Floors and all, I think Doctor 2 is imperfect and I feed off the imperfections in this. 657 00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:15.840 But the decisions that John Nathan Turner is making now at this point. are not benefitting the show. 658 00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:16.559 They benefitting him. 659 00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:17.159 Yeah. 660 00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:20.760 And that is that is the one criticism I will now have of him. 661 00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:25.079 Yeah, except, you know, when he's working with Bid Meaden when he's working with Kart Mall. 662 00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:29.099 So there's something about the relationship between the 2 of them. 663 00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:30.300 That's the problem. 664 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:35.880 But now, but he's in this corner now where it's like, you know, all those wanting to get out, he's... 665 00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:37.980 If he does, the show's gone. 666 00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:42.000 We could have had a story written by Ian Marta. 667 00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:44.519 Called Volvoc. 668 00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:46.559 I would totally have been up for that. 669 00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:48.719 I think we should wrap this one up. 670 00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:49.380 Yeah, definitely. 671 00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.039 Okay.