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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:05:52

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast who's under imminent danger foam of

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Bendrilops warhead.

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Yes, all 500 of us.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and it's that famous anagram lovers Doctor Who story

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Timelash.

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You know, sometimes with the Doctor Who story, a whole heap of

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elements come together, and here, you know, there's the script

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there's the direction, the costuming, the set design, the music

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and the actors' performances all come together to make this really

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an utterly, utterly horrific example of mid-80s Doctor Who.

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There's not a single one of those elements that even reaches a

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minimal level of acceptability.

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And so for me, this is easily Colin Baker's worst story and one of

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the worst stories in Doctor Who history.

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Todd.

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Okay.

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I've criticised a lot of 80s stories and you know which ones I

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don't like.

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For all of those elements that you have mentioned, right?

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The script falls in upon itself, the costuming and the sets and

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various performances, some of which I quite like and some of which

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I think are just terrific.

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But I can sit here and I can actually laugh away at it and enjoy, I

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actually quite enjoy episode one.

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I think it completely collapses halfway through episode two.

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If you were doing a bottom 10 of Doctor Who, it probably would

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make my number 10 in that list.

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Right?

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That's like 10th from the bottom.

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That's right. from the bottom.

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But unlike other things that I've been bored through or enraged by

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for me, it's not the worst thing ever.

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What do you think is going on here?

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Like, what do you think they're aiming for?

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It really is the most kind of generic set of space rebels in a

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bunch of space corridors.

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Well, obviously they need, you know, this is the cheapy of the

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season, right?

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So, but it's so underwritten. in that 2nd episode.

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I mean, what is Eric Sabre doing?

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Well, obviously he's off writing revelation of the Daleks and not

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script editing the 2nd episode of this in any way.

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Does he write the big padding scene?

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He does.

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He does.

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And a phrase, I don't use very often.

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I think this is possibly only the 3rd time in the history of the

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podcast.

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In Eric, say with his defence.

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He did actually have to perform a ground up rewrite on this to the

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dialogue because the writer, Glenn McCoy, had never written for

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Doctor Who before and has never written for Doctor Who again.

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He did have a proper career.

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I mean he did write for things.

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He wrote 4 things like Angels, and I believe, casualty.

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You know, he was an up and coming writer, and that's part of the

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reason that they got him in.

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The problem was, of course, you know, not being very experienced

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with Doctor Who.

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We've also had massive problems with the previous story in

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broadcast 2 stories ago in production, the 2 doctors, of course

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which had a rejected script from an American writer, then a

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rejected script from Bob Holmes because of the location change.

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Eric Say would, of course, in some way or another wrote Attack of

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the Cybermen.

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Even when this script was completed, Pennant Roberts read it, and

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he didn't like the way the characters spoke.

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He said, this is a completely alien planet, and apparently it was

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written in very human vernacular and metaphor and similarly and

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that sort of thing.

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So Eric Zaywood had to perform that ground up rewrite while he was

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well, before he went off to write Revelation, because to write

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Revelation, he actually had to finish his contract to script

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editor first.

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Well, I mean, if you need the dialogue not to sound like anything

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an actual human being from Earth would say, Eric, say, what's the

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right to get?

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I think one of the things that sums up this story for me is the

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fact that in one of those 1st sequences with the 1st mail-in and

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his son-in-law, what's his name?

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Men and Renis, and they go into that cubicle thing.

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Oh, the power roof.

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And he pulls off the power knob.

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And then, so just he puts it back on and you actually see this

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happening.

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How can the director not go?

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That's not acceptable.

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And a big problem I have with this is a lack of establishing

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shots.

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It's very hard to get a sense of place.

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Like we get one establishing shot of the citadel.

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But we have no sense of scale.

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You know, we don't know how big it is aside from the fact that

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it's got 500 people in it.

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We know that.

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Thank you.

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Tyler or God, whatever you know.

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We've got horrible 2 sill names.

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Oh, yeah, but that's the other thing.

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Everyone has, we had, you know, good names like Dastarian, Chesini

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and we're going to have, you know, Tarkas and Lilt and Tassambika

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next week.

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This week they all have horrific 2 syllable names.

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They're all Kendron and Vina and Mecross and things.

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They're all sort of terrible.

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And there's a terrible scene early on where Me Cross and Vina are

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having an argument for no reason other than to explain the

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structure of this society to all. the people at home.

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And I just can't possibly care about anyone on this planet.

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There are 500 people in these sort of terrible space corridors.

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Later on, when we learn that the Bender Lips warhead is heading to

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Carfell, we learn that there are 1000000s of lives at stake.

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I bet I think that's written by Eric Saywood much later.

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But I just don't care about them.

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They are the planet Zog.

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They're literally the Zog people being menaced by the Zog monster

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and I just don't care.

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And there's really nothing here that we haven't seen done before a

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lot of times and done better.

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And I do feel that Glenn McCoy has a feeling that this is the sort

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of thing that Doctor Who does, that does rebels in space

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corridors.

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And it's clear that the high concept that he wants to pin this on

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is the time lash, and it's called time lash, and there's some

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timey stuff.

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So when the borad shoots someone, they age, you know, the time

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lashes, this sort of fearsome thing, but the time lash looks like

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something in a light entertainment set, like something in a game

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show, and it's in no way impressive looking.

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It's got those sort of tinsel lights, the sort of crappy sequins

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all over it, people just fade into it and scream.

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You know, the lights go up like it's a special round on the

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weakest link, and that's what we're pinning it on.

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And that's the only thing that distinguishes this from anything

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else.

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And we've seen plenty of stories where the doctor comes in and

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overthrows for government, but the government is interesting in an

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interesting way or is a political satire in some way, but that's

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not what the show does anymore in this period.

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So, you know, what do we learn here?

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That dictatorships are bad.

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It's really so empty.

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And so there are bits that are charming, and there's one character

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in particular, whom I like a great deal, even though I think he's

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a mistake in some ways.

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And who is that?

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I really like her, but.

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I adore her, but yeah.

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Why couldn't we keep him on?

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He would have been a great companion.

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Look, in his 1st sequences with the doctor in that hut and he's

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trying to like exercise exorcise, not exercise.

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Although he could do with that.

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And then bash him with the book.

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Like, I actually find it really funny and adorable.

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He's charming, isn't he?

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And in a bumbling sort of way, and he has a great relationship

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with the doctor.

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And in that hideous padding scene in episode two, which Eric

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Seward had to write because the episode was running under time.

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Like, Colin Baker's face, when he looks at Herbert, when Herbert's

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doing whatever.

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And it just burst out laughing. like even though like the scene is

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complete padding.

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There's something I like about her, but I don't like the, you know

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the fact that he's revealed to be HD Wells and that sort of thing

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is...

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Well, that's the bit that I think is stupid because he's nothing

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at all like HG Wells.

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Yeah, HG Wells was a socialist and a Hugs list. you know.

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Of course, he had religion growing up in the time he grew up in

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but he was not devoutly religious and certainly was not sort of

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conscious of devils and probably wasn't experimenting with ouija

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boards.

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I don't believe he was ever even a teacher.

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He studied to be a teacher, but he never completed.

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He was known as George.

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Like he said, Herbert George Wells.

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He was called George.

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He had a northern accent, I think.

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You know, like he's really nothing like her, but, and in a sense

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that doesn't matter.

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But if you're going to have a celebrity historical, and this is

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the 2nd celebrity historical this season, and the 1st time we've

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ever had celebrity historicals, actually.

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Well, since Marco Polo.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

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So there's not very much point.

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In fact, I think that the point is that this lamentably bad Doctor

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Who story is the inspiration for the science fiction career of one

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of the great science fiction writers of all time, who borrows the

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name Vina and the Morlockses and stuff.

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The Island of Dr. Monroe, Invisible Man, all of that stuff.

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And look, HG Wells was capable of some really incredible crap, if

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you've ever read in the days of a comet, which is just rubbish, but

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it has a political kind of socialist message.

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You know, the idea that he was in any way inspired by this dreary

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runaround is really just kind of insulting.

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It's a missed opportunity, isn't it?

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The story could be political because it is about a rebellion

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against an oppressive government and you've got this really

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incredibly political science fiction writer, but we get no

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politics in this story.

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After what you just said, I find it quite funny that this crummy

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doctor story actually ends up inspiring all of these works of

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literature.

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Like I think there's something deliciously, well, just humourous

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in that.

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If I was to do this, can I just indulge me for a moment?

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Yeah, sort of fantasy directing.

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So somebody out there can do this for me, right?

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So I'd have, I'd have Mikos and the mail in about to go into the

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power room, have their scene, cut to the doctor and Perry in the

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TARDIS.

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They know that the time tunnel thing's there and they're heading

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for like doomsday.

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Cut back to the mainland being taken to the Borad, cut back to the

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doctor impairing the TARDIS, cut back to Mikos and Vina having a

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bit of a conversation to set the scene.

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Cut back to the Dr. Imperi and the TARDIS cut back to the main

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being killed and our good friend Paul Darrow taking over, cut back

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to the Dr. Imperi and the TARDIS.

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Like, you know, little brief snippets.

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Then cut back to Paul Darrow's striding in and saying, you know

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your father's dead, right?

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Cut back to the doctor and Miriam Matata.

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Cut back to, you know, that pathetic person that pleads for Gazak

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his people.

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What's the, I don't even know what the lines of dialogue are, but

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you know, he pleads for his people.

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He gets shoved down the time lash. doesn't it all hell break loose

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at that point?

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or am I am I?

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Yeah, and that's where Vina.

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Okay, steel...

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Cut back to the doctor.

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Imperi Natana's, Vina goes through, right?

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Cut back to Carfell, and then you cut to the TARDIS coming up the

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corridor.

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It's just such a bad.

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But then you cut to the boy going, it appears the doctor is making

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a return visit to Carfell. queue opening title sequence.

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Or end of episode, right?

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Right?

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So you're just doing a huge edit on all of those things.

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Because in that 1st sequence of stuff, you see like bland

250
00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:18.960
corridors of those that robot thing and people getting captured

251
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.039
and you don't care.

252
00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:21.419
Like, I think the girl's okay.

253
00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:22.980
The rebel cats.

254
00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:25.080
Yeah, she's actually she's actually quite good.

255
00:12:25.139 --> 00:12:27.960
Vina, I, I'm just going to say this.

256
00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:31.379
I absolutely adore her in this entire story, the fact that she's

257
00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:34.919
obviously on Xanax or something, except that that one sequence

258
00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.460
where she has to get up on a chair and stop the Borhead from

259
00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:41.460
looking through his video monitor or whatever she does.

260
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.740
But I really love her performance.

261
00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:44.759
It's just so wooden.

262
00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:46.500
It's just I just love it, you know?

263
00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:48.720
And then we just constantly spaced out.

264
00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:51.899
And then having Nikos going, you're just a figurehead.

265
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:53.220
I love his little performance.

266
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.200
Pour down nearly acceptable.

267
00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:58.200
Nicola looks fantastic, right?

268
00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:01.679
Yeah, 1st proper decent outfit she's had.

269
00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:07.259
I think the highlight scene for me, the highlight, the whole thing

270
00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:10.559
which I just burst out laughing every time, is when Paul Darrow's

271
00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:14.279
character gets killed by the borat, and the skeleton drops to the

272
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.440
floor, the skull goes, thump.

273
00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:17.700
Thump.

274
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.620
It's a double bang on the floor.

275
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:24.000
I remember this as a kid and I just burst out laughing and I just

276
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.080
wait for that moment every time it is the moment I wait for.

277
00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:32.580
His little sidekick, Kendron, might be one of the worst before.

278
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:36.419
Like, I think he makes some Leonard Sachs look like, you know

279
00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:37.980
Robert De Niro, frankly.

280
00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:39.059
I have been faithful to you.

281
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.639
Doesn't the boy do obey with him too?

282
00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:42.120
Yes.

283
00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.360
He's got this giant IMDb page.

284
00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:46.740
He's in a Bond film.

285
00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:48.600
Like he's in tomorrow, never dies.

286
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:50.940
He's in the last king of Scotland.

287
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.200
He's got a proper career.

288
00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:58.139
He looks like he is from the year 10 production of an inspector

289
00:13:58.139 --> 00:13:58.679
calls.

290
00:13:58.740 --> 00:13:59.519
He's so bad.

291
00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:03.299
I love the fact that he's so bad and so feeble and so crap and

292
00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:03.840
meets that end.

293
00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:05.940
I just take perverse pleasure.

294
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:06.840
That's what I take.

295
00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:09.360
The 1st pleasure, you know, performances and things in this that

296
00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.759
are just going to, that's so crap, but I'm laughing with it and

297
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:12.179
going with it.

298
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.940
Pennant Roberts was actually trying to get him into Doctor Who for

299
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:15.480
ages.

300
00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:22.799
He was meant to be either Tomas or Caleb in the face of evil.

301
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.259
He was meant to be one of the principal younger men.

302
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:29.279
And I'm so glad we didn't get him because Leslie Schofield and the

303
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.399
really hot chap who plays Tomas, whose name I can't remember.

304
00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:34.379
They're perfect in those roles.

305
00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.080
He's not replacing Tomas ever.

306
00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:37.740
Thank you.

307
00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:38.460
Thank you.

308
00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:39.720
Or David Garfield.

309
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:41.820
That was a really good looking cast.

310
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:42.419
Can we go back there?

311
00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:47.580
Something I do love in this story, though, is the HG Wells

312
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:51.059
references aren't hammered into your skull.

313
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:55.679
They are subtle Easter eggs there for people who either know the

314
00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.620
works of HG Wells or...

315
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:02.039
And this is possibly a bit ambitious after they watch the story

316
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:06.120
might go and read some HG Wells, which is very much in keeping

317
00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.539
with what Colin Baker wanted the program to be. wanted it to

318
00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:12.240
inspire children to learn new words and new ideas.

319
00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:15.840
This to me feels like a 1960s story.

320
00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:18.419
This was another one I took Richard's advice and watched him black

321
00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:21.659
and white and it really lifts it.

322
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.840
Another way I look at this story to help me get through it, is

323
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:29.399
it's another example, and there's so much of it this season of

324
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.559
making it like a Shakespeare.

325
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:34.379
So you have your principal cast.

326
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.500
You have the doctor, you have Perry, you have Tekka, the Borad

327
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:41.220
Herbert, and they're sort of the bigger characters and everyone

328
00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:43.320
else fades into the background a little bit.

329
00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:46.500
Literally in the case of some of their costumes.

330
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.440
And Tekka's characterisation, Paul Darrow's performance is

331
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:53.519
magnetic to watch.

332
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:55.559
I really hate it.

333
00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:57.000
I really, really hate it.

334
00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:57.600
I love it.

335
00:15:57.659 --> 00:15:58.500
People going over the top.

336
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:00.120
I love Jackie Pierce last week.

337
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:01.139
I thought she was glorious.

338
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.960
He's horrible to watch.

339
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:06.720
And they lost so much studio time because they kept having to

340
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.840
order retakes because he was putting in even more than that.

341
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:13.080
But I really like it. sabotaging it.

342
00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:17.700
Well, I do wonder that sometimes because famously, and we'll come

343
00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:21.840
back to this next week, um, this is sort of a two-part anecdote

344
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.340
Colin Baker played Babe in the Butcher in an episode of Blake 7 in

345
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:30.840
a very similar way to Paul Darrow playing techa here, but arguably

346
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.580
better. enjoyable in that episode.

347
00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:35.580
Well, I find Paul Darrow enjoyable here as well, but I do

348
00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:38.639
sometimes wonder if Paul Darrow is playing it like this because of

349
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.299
the way Colin Baker came into his show to play that.

350
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.460
But I think that's an urban myth and I think it's something that

351
00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:46.740
people have suggested and then he's played on.

352
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:47.639
That's what I think.

353
00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:51.299
I mean, the other thing is that, you know, he had an argument with

354
00:16:51.299 --> 00:16:53.159
John Nathan Turner about what he was doing.

355
00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:55.019
Well, he wanted to be Richard III.

356
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.120
He literally wanted to have a hump.

357
00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:01.500
But I do find it so hilarious when he goes like, we'll do a tour

358
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:03.179
of the citadel for your assistant.

359
00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:06.420
And then he has that plant and shoves that plant into the doctor's

360
00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:07.079
face or whatever.

361
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:09.720
Like, these little things like that I do like, but I do get the

362
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.299
fact that it is such an overthrop performance.

363
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.039
You're either going to...

364
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.900
I think you can't be in the gray area.

365
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.900
You either really love it or you really don't, and I can

366
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:21.180
understand exactly where you're coming from, but for me, it's sort

367
00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:24.660
of like it's the, it's one thing that keeps me glued to the screen

368
00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:28.140
when there's other beige sets with beige people with, you know

369
00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:29.220
things I don't really care about.

370
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:32.460
I actually think that Colin's visibly uncomfortable acting

371
00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:33.059
opposite him.

372
00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:36.059
And it could just be me reading into it.

373
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.160
But I just think that Colin doesn't like it.

374
00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:40.019
When was this recorded in order?

375
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.240
No, it is the 2nd last story recorded?

376
00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:46.019
It is the 2nd last because suddenly Collins kind of horrible.

377
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.359
And again, I think it's Collins studio problem.

378
00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:51.900
That 1st scene with Perry and all that stuff in the TARDIS.

379
00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.099
He's just obnoxious.

380
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:57.839
I put that down again to say word and having to have these

381
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.619
delaying tactics before we get to whatever and it's another one of

382
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:02.279
these bitch scenes.

383
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:04.500
I don't think it's as bad as Varos.

384
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.099
But it is like, okay, at this point in the season, we don't really

385
00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:08.700
need it anymore.

386
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:09.660
No, that's right.

387
00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:11.819
It was actually even worse in the script.

388
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:15.660
There's a line in the script to the effect of...

389
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:19.799
The doctor says, while Perry's in the room, but not directly to

390
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.799
her, This girl vexes me so much, I might as well kill myself.

391
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:25.319
Well, I'm glad they didn't do that.

392
00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:28.200
Well, it's Pennant Roberts, Colin Baker, and Nicola Bryant just

393
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.819
said, no, we're not doing this anymore.

394
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.720
For me, there's only one bit of that scene that's really bad and

395
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.180
that's when he screams bad at her and she cringes.

396
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.980
You know, that's really horrible.

397
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:42.059
The rest of it, I don't mind so much like when he's giving this

398
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:44.640
description of this place and she's like, that's exactly what you

399
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:45.660
say about the eyebrow.

400
00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:46.619
And he has a tank.

401
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:52.440
And another thing I actually really love is the beginning of that

402
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.819
padding scene where Perry's insisting on coming with him and

403
00:18:56.819 --> 00:19:00.660
they're actually showing genuine concern and affection for one

404
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:01.019
another.

405
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:03.960
And it's it's a really good balance for the characters because

406
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.140
it's it's sort of the equivalent of that scene in the hand of fear

407
00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:09.180
where I worry about you, but I worry about you.

408
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:13.259
But these 2 characters would never quite put it in those words.

409
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.900
They're both a little bit too proud.

410
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.759
So it turns into an argument.

411
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:21.900
But I agree with you, and I do like that bit because you know the

412
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:24.180
doctor is concerned and wants her out of the Tartar, in case he

413
00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:24.660
doesn't come back.

414
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.220
And I do like that bit of it.

415
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.039
The thing that gets to me is the fact that episode one was

416
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.279
overrunning by several minutes, and Pennant Roberts wanted to move

417
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.819
the cliffhanger earlier, he felt there was a point and the rest of

418
00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:37.980
that stuff could go into episode 2 and they wouldn't be a

419
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:38.220
problem.

420
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:40.500
John Nathan Turner wouldn't have it.

421
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.440
Yeah, because the episode cliffhanger had to be the doctor in

422
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:47.640
peril, where Pennant wanted to move it was Perry in peril.

423
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:51.359
It was the scene where they're in the caves and she realises she's

424
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.299
dropped the note and the guards burst in and shoot one of the

425
00:19:54.299 --> 00:19:54.779
rebels.

426
00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:57.420
And Pennant said, look, I've got these shots.

427
00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.519
I can make it look like Perry's been shot.

428
00:19:59.579 --> 00:20:03.599
Like Tomb of the Cybermen, episode 3 where we don't know who's

429
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:03.960
been shot.

430
00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:06.299
And it's like, actually, that would have worked.

431
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.960
But instead, yeah, they had to cut stuff out of episode one to

432
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.799
make it fit and then put this stuff into episode two.

433
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:16.440
Even then, there was some stuff they managed to move out of

434
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.640
episode one into episode two, like Perry being dragged along to

435
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.519
the Morlocks, but that creates this kind of weird thing where

436
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:26.279
she's dragged along and tied up near a Morlocks, and then she's

437
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.019
dragged back to a cell, and then she's dragged back to the

438
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:28.859
Morlocks again.

439
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:30.779
I hate that.

440
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.539
I hate that she has a thing around her neck and she's being

441
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:34.259
dragged along.

442
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:40.619
I think that this story, it may be, apart from that scene in Twin

443
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:44.220
Dilemma, might be the worst treatment that Perry receives.

444
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.519
It's the 2nd time this season where she's going to be transformed

445
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.960
into something against her will.

446
00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:55.319
She's tied up and menaced by the least convincing alien threat

447
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:56.160
since...

448
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:57.779
Brontosaur penis head.

449
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.579
Yeah, it's awful.

450
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.380
And it is like you joke about, you know, brontosaur penis head, but

451
00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:05.160
it is phallic.

452
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.500
It is, you know, a phallus tentatus.

453
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.640
She is pathetic in her response to it.

454
00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.940
She just screams until a man comes along and rescues her.

455
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.940
And kudos to Herbert, who I think is lovely and gets to have a

456
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:21.480
hero moment there rescuing Perry, but it's just pathetic that

457
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.279
Perry needs rescuing again.

458
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:26.880
And the threat is she's going to be forced to breed with the

459
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.599
Borad.

460
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:32.099
So it's sexual, you know, and when she says, don't I get a say in

461
00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:35.759
this at the very end, and the doctor says, no, of course not, shut

462
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:40.140
up, which is meant to be a funny line, Colin delivers it that way

463
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:45.779
it's just a little bit depressing, but that's exactly the point.

464
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.019
And this is where the whole thing falls down is because the moment

465
00:21:49.019 --> 00:21:52.680
she goes on the tour of the citadel, she's just then there's a

466
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:54.000
victim, right?

467
00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:57.420
Which is so 1960s and should not be now in the 1980s.

468
00:21:57.539 --> 00:21:59.700
Even the 1960s didn't do it that much.

469
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.339
But the Borads plan is insane.

470
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.619
Like, he's not even going to breed with a person from his own

471
00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:07.380
planet, and it all comes down to the fact that this gas and the

472
00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:09.839
thing has to attack her at the, like, there's no scientific

473
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.579
reasonable rhyme.

474
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:13.319
The doctor even calls him out on that.

475
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:16.619
You know, he says that's hardly a scientific experiment.

476
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:17.460
Where's your control?

477
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:21.240
Couldn't he clone a whole bunch of borants as well, given that he

478
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:23.220
has a few spares in his closet somewhere?

479
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.539
Do you know, every time I watch this story, I forget the terrific

480
00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:29.220
plot trist that he's cloned himself, right?

481
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.460
I always forget, and then it's like, well, we've got 15 minutes to

482
00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:33.299
go, what's going to happen?

483
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.019
Then suddenly it's a clone and I'm going, every time I watch it, I

484
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:37.319
forget.

485
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:40.019
Yeah, and is that with a different coloured eye as well?

486
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.259
I think the makeup, I think the makeup on the borat.

487
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.160
Yeah, is great.

488
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.140
And his performance is great.

489
00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:51.660
And I love his little set thing, you know, you know, I do like

490
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:55.559
that set and I don't mind not in the timelash set, which looks

491
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.279
like, but that other big set, like, is quite good, but then all

492
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:00.539
the other sets are just rubbish.

493
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.960
But I like the Borad stuff.

494
00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:04.680
Okay?

495
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.079
I do like Paul Darrow at times.

496
00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:11.099
I think Colin gives a good performance in what is a terrible

497
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:11.640
script.

498
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:16.380
But when we're in the time lash room and the doctor has the

499
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.059
crystal thing, okay?

500
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:20.220
So he stands there and he turns it off, right?

501
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.619
Now, surely it should then project him there.

502
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.480
He should move away to the console.

503
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.839
The bride should then fire the laser to this projection.

504
00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:30.779
Then the doctor should move to the console, we should fire it

505
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:31.019
there.

506
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.319
So he's actually not in the beam, but the way it shot is he's

507
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.299
still standing as the beam goes through him.

508
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.099
So he should technically drop dead.

509
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:39.119
It's wrong.

510
00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:43.259
We've had a 15, 20 minute scene of him explaining how that thing

511
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:47.819
works and then it doesn't work directed incorrectly.

512
00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:49.319
He is shot with that beam.

513
00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:50.220
It's really bad.

514
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.599
I don't understand how the director could get it that wrong in

515
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:55.680
that sequence.

516
00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:56.640
It's really an app.

517
00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:59.759
I actually think that there is something slightly sweet about that

518
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.940
and that he has a gun that sends you back in time and he has a

519
00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:06.839
magic time crystal that does things and clearly the story was

520
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.079
meant to be about a society that uses time as a weapon or

521
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:10.799
something like that.

522
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.400
Yeah, in Glenn McCoy's original outline, there was a lot more

523
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.539
about time and also his original outline was a Dalek story.

524
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.839
The Daleks were going to be the bandrels invading this planet, and

525
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.880
it was going to be about the car felons fighting them off, and

526
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:25.920
Eric Saywood said, no, sorry, I'm writing the Dalek story.

527
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:28.140
So that didn't happen.

528
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:29.880
Oh, the banjals.

529
00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:31.380
The bandreals are coming.

530
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.119
The glove puppets are coming.

531
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:34.980
I love the bandals.

532
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.759
They are actually 30 foot tall cyborg.

533
00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:43.859
I love them and I love all that stuff and I also love, you may

534
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:44.339
remember this.

535
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.180
Friends of the podcast, Simon Moore, Peter Griffithson, I think

536
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:52.680
Kate Orman, back many years ago, when they was film students, did

537
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:58.259
a re-edit of that, and Simon had a sock on his hand, and so he

538
00:24:58.259 --> 00:25:01.559
does the whole Bandral thing with this sock, and I just let, and

539
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.920
the final sequence was when it drops out of sight reminds me of

540
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:05.759
the drashings.

541
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:09.000
I wish I had I think I've got it on video.

542
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.220
I need to dig it up, but it was just so funny.

543
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.380
Like, I love the band draws.

544
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.200
But in that padding scene, the doctor could have explained

545
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.500
something about using the crystal to deflect the, you know, just

546
00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:22.500
some bit of dialogue in there rather than what we get when he gets

547
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.200
back and he says to Perry, oh, I'll tell you later.

548
00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:28.079
We get no explanation as to how that happens.

549
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:29.940
And I just sit there going, if you're going to write a padding

550
00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:34.680
scene, give me some scientific, you know, mumbo jumbo.

551
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:35.160
Give me something.

552
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.160
And there was, in the script, there was a technobabble

553
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:38.640
explanation.

554
00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:42.420
It still didn't make any sense, but there's no reason to cut it.

555
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:44.880
I mean, Colin Baker was not John Bertwick.

556
00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:47.279
Colin Baker could do techno babble, for God's sake.

557
00:25:47.339 --> 00:25:50.099
Speaking of which, this is the other thing that gets to me with

558
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:53.940
this story. is the fact that we have to then have this continuity

559
00:25:53.940 --> 00:25:58.380
thing where it's referencing a previous adventure that the perjury

560
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:01.500
doctor has gone on, which no one has ever seen.

561
00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:04.920
Like, you know, I'm sure when they pitch this, they might have

562
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:06.299
thought, oh, fans will get something out of this.

563
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:09.240
Ooh, it's an adventure we've never seen, but to the general public

564
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:12.720
they'd be going like, well, you know, it's an alienating thing.

565
00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:14.099
It's another continuity thing.

566
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.279
And the fact that M Perry has to be versed in having like who Joe

567
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.160
Grant is and we have to have the locket with Joe. And then it

568
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.220
seems at one moment, there's one companion, but in the dialogue

569
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:25.559
it's like, oh, there's only one of you this time.

570
00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:26.880
So there must have been somebody else.

571
00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:28.259
Mike Yates.

572
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:30.660
Well, that's the only one that could be, you know?

573
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.960
I think Paul Cornell reconed that in speed of flight.

574
00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:35.579
I think that was written by Paul Cornell.

575
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.880
And at the end, sort of, that's Mike Yates going off and having an

576
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.519
adventure with the doctor and Joe, and at the end, they're heading

577
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.019
to Carfell in the epilogue.

578
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:43.680
Oh wow.

579
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:46.859
But, you know, as a kid, I kind of liked, you know, the shattering

580
00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:50.400
of the mirror wall or whatever it is and the picture of them.

581
00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:53.700
Like, I liked that, like, as a little nerd fanboy.

582
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.920
But I think it's just, it robs, it robs the story of them having

583
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.640
to prove who they are to the rebels or to who's trying to

584
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.180
overthrow and, and I just don't like that in Doctor Who, where

585
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:07.680
it's some person we've met before.

586
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:09.240
Like it's just a shorthand.

587
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.779
It's just a shorthand to get into it without really having a

588
00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:13.140
payoff.

589
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:16.799
There's a real problem we've said before about continuity in this

590
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:17.400
era.

591
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:21.539
And I've said that when they do it, they get it wrong like last

592
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:21.960
week.

593
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.680
And now here we have just completely invented continuity.

594
00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.220
And, you know, if having continuity references has any value at

595
00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:33.839
all, and, you know, the new series has shown that it does, is that

596
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:38.339
you get a flicker of recognition from longtime fans, you know, I

597
00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:41.579
love the recreation of the 1st doctor's TARDIS console room

598
00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:43.380
towards the end of series nine.

599
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.640
I thought that stuff was really great But here, now we're

600
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.519
inventing continuity and putting it in and it's hard to know what

601
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:52.259
possible reason we could have it.

602
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:57.059
And I think it is because Glenn McCoy has got the idea that that's

603
00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:58.619
the sort of thing that Doctor Who does.

604
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.259
Yeah, I remember years ago.

605
00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:05.460
When Doctor Who magazine started doing their special editions, they

606
00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:06.420
do 3 of a year.

607
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.740
Their 1st run was special editions based on the doctors.

608
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:15.599
So there was the complete 6th doctor, and the forward, I believe

609
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.099
was written by Gareth Roberts.

610
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:22.920
And he has a wonderful line in that where he says, in this era of

611
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.539
the show, the doctor becomes the show's fetishistic raison

612
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:28.079
d'etre.

613
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:34.920
And if you look at this past season and the twin dilemma, Vengeance

614
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.980
on Baros is the only story where people don't know who Time Lords

615
00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:38.160
are.

616
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:40.799
Yeah, that's boring, isn't it?

617
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.740
I hate the constant references to regeneration that we get

618
00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:44.700
throughout this year.

619
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.420
You know, it just reminds us that Colin never gets to be the

620
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:48.779
doctor.

621
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.140
He's always the 6th doctor and even that terrible, terrible

622
00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:55.799
nickname for him that you used the other day in chat.

623
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:56.400
What, 60?

624
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.839
Yeah, don't ever say that in my presence again. acknowledges the

625
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.660
fact that he's just one of many doctors and the references to

626
00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:05.160
regeneration do that as well.

627
00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:07.380
And I hate it.

628
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.039
Yeah.

629
00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:11.940
I mean, the bit with the Borat referring to his ability to

630
00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:14.400
regenerate, like that won't save you.

631
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:18.119
That was put in, you know, because fans might object, but I think

632
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:19.920
it's something that takes you out of the moment.

633
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:23.880
It's kind of like at every episode ending and every time the

634
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.819
doctor's under threat, we have to shoehorn some dialogue in

635
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:30.480
explaining, yes, we're aware that the doctor regenerates, you know

636
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.500
like, do we have to do that?

637
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:36.180
The show got on for like 14, 15, 16 years without it.

638
00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:40.380
And, you know, we've got the continuity of the doctor having met

639
00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.920
the Borad when he was a scientist, some sort of past history that

640
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:45.779
you know, really in the end means nothing.

641
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:46.500
Yeah.

642
00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:49.740
It would be an interesting touch if we didn't do it so often

643
00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:50.220
already.

644
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:54.660
Like, you know, in recent stories we've had as male, we've had the

645
00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:57.720
cyber controller, who we're meant to believe, at least in mind, is

646
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:00.900
the same cyber controller, as the doctor had previously met, we've

647
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:02.339
had the master and the Rani.

648
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.099
We've had Destari, who's an old friend of the doctors.

649
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:09.119
In a way, it's a bit more valid in the story because this story

650
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:10.380
needs a bit more depth.

651
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.380
But as you say, it doesn't mean much in the end.

652
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.500
You know, it's just this line of, yes, we've met before, doctor

653
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:18.420
and it's like, well, so bloody what?

654
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.079
You know, I really would, I really think if they'd done a complete

655
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.920
edit of this whole thing, like as a, as a 45 minute or 50 minute

656
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.039
episode and really cut it down, a 10 minute children in need

657
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:29.460
episode.

658
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.640
Well, yes, that's extreme.

659
00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:35.700
Like, you know, the edit that I was talking about earlier, but

660
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:38.940
then going through part 2 and just really just it's the borat and

661
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.660
it's the missile coming and just leave it at that and really cut

662
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:43.259
it back.

663
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.559
You might have something that's acceptable and ditch a lot of this

664
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.299
other continuity stuff.

665
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.180
I mean, all the stuff with the rebels and the Felch and rocks and

666
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:53.819
that sort of thing is just like...

667
00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:55.200
Like, who cares?

668
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:58.440
You know, there is one thing this story gets right that rarely

669
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:02.819
gets done right in this era and that's letting the doctor solve

670
00:31:02.819 --> 00:31:03.299
the problem.

671
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:05.700
And so the doctor does something clever.

672
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.660
He tricks the borad into shooting himself with his own laser, so

673
00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:12.900
he defeats him without, you know, just gunning him in the face.

674
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:19.259
Then he sacrifices himself to save them from the oncoming

675
00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:19.920
missile.

676
00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:23.099
You know, he does have a proper role in resolving the story.

677
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:27.660
The oncoming missile, though, is absolutely ruined by the fact

678
00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:30.900
that there is that 10 minute padding scene in the middle of it

679
00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:33.599
that robs it of any urgency whatsoever.

680
00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:37.259
So the missiles coming, but we have time to bitch and talk in the

681
00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:38.519
TARDIS for ages and ages.

682
00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:41.099
Yeah, I find that scene so charming.

683
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.160
You know, it's almost the opposite of that 7 minute scene I

684
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:46.799
mentioned last week in Dastari's office, which had a few moments

685
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.880
of charm. but just feels like it should have been interspersed

686
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:54.359
with other things, whereas having this almost in real time with

687
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:59.640
just one cutaway back there, it lets George Chandler as Herbert

688
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.579
shine a little bit more as well because he goes from being all

689
00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:04.440
gung-ho and oh, we're going to save the world too.

690
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.000
Oh, I didn't realise we were going to die.

691
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:08.339
I sit between you two.

692
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.720
Like, I mean, I know it's padding.

693
00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:12.420
There's parts of it that I like and there's other parts where I'm

694
00:32:12.420 --> 00:32:14.880
going to go, like, give me more, give me explanations, that sort

695
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.180
of thing.

696
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.940
I think it just robs the story of pace at a time when it really

697
00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:20.579
needs it because that's a really dramatic bit.

698
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.839
There's no music either.

699
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:26.160
I think the music here is extremely inept, but there's no music

700
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:27.720
there to help sell it.

701
00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:31.319
You know, like we're all in terrible danger, but it's all word

702
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:31.980
peril.

703
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.799
We just have the banjals telling us they've sent a missile.

704
00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:36.779
We have a lot of standing around in the TARDIS talking about this

705
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:37.619
terrible missile.

706
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:38.519
All of that.

707
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:40.799
We only have the budget for one bandrol ship.

708
00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:44.880
So the other 2 ships of the fleet are represented by little green

709
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:46.200
asterisks.

710
00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:50.339
The music is by Elizabeth Parker, who, unless I'm very much

711
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:54.779
mistaken, is Doctor Who's 1st female incidental music composer, I

712
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:58.619
know we've had like the Delian mode in Inferno, but that wasn't

713
00:32:58.619 --> 00:33:00.359
written specifically for it.

714
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:05.579
And I think she may remain to date, Doctor Who's only female music

715
00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:06.119
composer.

716
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.920
And she's not back again, is she ever?

717
00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:08.640
No, no.

718
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.440
But she had done a lot of work on Blake 7.

719
00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:14.160
Yeah, in fact, there's only one episode of Blake 7 that isn't

720
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:18.059
scored by Dudley Simpson, and that's the episode that Dougie

721
00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:20.700
Campfield directs called Duel in season one.

722
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.039
Of course, Dougie Campfield wouldn't have anything to do with

723
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:23.940
Dudley Simpson.

724
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.759
And so Elizabeth Parker does do the incidental music on that.

725
00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:28.559
Right, just the one episode then.

726
00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:30.960
But you did do sound and stuff, I think. right.

727
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:33.599
I have to say, I do like the fact that the doctor and Perry are

728
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:36.240
pleased to see each other at the end. really nice. you know?

729
00:33:36.299 --> 00:33:37.200
It's nice moment.

730
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:41.880
Now, can you tell me what the fake cliffhangers are for episode

731
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.359
one and 3 in the Australian edits?

732
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:49.920
Is it, it appears the doctor is making return visit or have I got

733
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:50.339
that wrong?

734
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.240
I thought it was just before that I thought it was.

735
00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:55.619
And don't go wandering off.

736
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:56.099
Yes, sir.

737
00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:58.319
Yeah.

738
00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:00.000
And what about in episode three?

739
00:34:00.059 --> 00:34:01.799
Is it Perry versus the Morlocks?

740
00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:02.759
Is that a cliffhanger?

741
00:34:02.819 --> 00:34:03.299
Yes.

742
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.359
So that at least feels like a proper cliffhanger.

743
00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:10.440
And it kind of has her scream leading into the cliffhanger.

744
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:10.860
Right.

745
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:13.500
And the actual cliffhanger in the middle is...

746
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:14.760
He's also going into the time lash.

747
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:15.719
Goodbye, doctor.

748
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.079
Unpleasant journey with a close-up on Colin's face. doing that

749
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:19.559
tongue thing.

750
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:20.639
Yeah.

751
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.280
Oh, I'm in the pain is never...

752
00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:25.739
And we get a crash zoom on the time.

753
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:26.699
Timelash as well.

754
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.519
Oh, can I just say another continuity thing?

755
00:34:29.579 --> 00:34:31.320
Another continuity thing, right?

756
00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:34.559
So the time lash, like the doctor suffers the terrible threat that

757
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:38.340
he might end up in 12th century Scotland or something. you know

758
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:39.420
and we already kind of know that.

759
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:44.099
At the end, the Borad goes through the time, she should do and

760
00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:45.840
ends up as the Loch Ness Monster.

761
00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:49.260
Because we've never had a Doctor Who story that explains the Loch

762
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:50.039
Ness monster before.

763
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:54.780
Not only do we have 3 Atlantis, we now have 2 Loch Ness Monsters.

764
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:56.340
It's Doctor Who, it's imperfect.

765
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:57.300
I laugh at that.

766
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:58.139
Okay, I agree.

767
00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:59.099
I agree.

768
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:02.280
But it's something that you think that they would they care about

769
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:03.780
that in this year.

770
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:04.800
So why are they doing that?

771
00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:05.940
Where's Ian Levine?

772
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:06.719
he on holiday?

773
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:10.019
Fans pointed that out and John Nathan Turner's response was

774
00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:11.940
exactly what you just said, well, there's 2 of them now.

775
00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:15.599
Right. lovely.

776
00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:16.199
Lovely.

777
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:19.500
Something this story comes in for criticism of.

778
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.619
I don't think I've said this explicitly, but yeah, I quite enjoy

779
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:23.039
this one.

780
00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:26.099
I enjoy it more than the 2 doctors, but something the story comes

781
00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:30.780
into criticism of is the doctor's dispatching of the 2nd Borad.

782
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.239
Well, in a sense, I don't mind that.

783
00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:36.300
And there is something fairy tale about him being defeated by the

784
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:40.139
side of a mirror, and it really, you know, the story is leading up

785
00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:40.500
to it.

786
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:43.500
It's laid in the mirror thing, it's deliberately designed sets

787
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:48.059
that look incredibly boring and dull as Perry points out because

788
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:51.059
of the mirror thing and his anxiety about how he looks.

789
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.619
And so, like, I've already talked about the awful dialogue between

790
00:35:55.619 --> 00:35:58.260
the doctor and Perry and the fact that once again, Perry's going

791
00:35:58.260 --> 00:36:02.099
to be forcibly bred with an all of that's awful.

792
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:07.500
But, you know, like, I think that having him shrinking away from

793
00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:12.300
the mirror is fine, I think there's no way that he can't end up

794
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:16.380
being pushed in the timelash, you know, the narrative, just, yeah

795
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:17.400
heading towards that.

796
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:21.719
Yeah, I mean, some people have said he's bullying the Borat based

797
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:25.739
on his looks and I watched this story in a new light this time

798
00:36:25.739 --> 00:36:28.860
based on current political events.

799
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.880
Tekka is Trump because Tekka has no idea how to do his job.

800
00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:37.320
So he just makes grandiose claims and calls up their nearby allies

801
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:39.000
and says, no, we're not going to give you any grain.

802
00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:40.019
Sure, what are you going to do?

803
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:41.219
Bomas kind of thing.

804
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.659
Whereas.

805
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:43.559
So who's the Borat?

806
00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:44.460
Well, that's the thing.

807
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:45.480
I was looking at...

808
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:46.320
Steve Bannon.

809
00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:48.599
I was looking at that scene going.

810
00:36:48.659 --> 00:36:52.199
People always say, is it all right for the doctor to throw the

811
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:53.400
ball out in the time lash.

812
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:55.920
And another part of my brain just said, is it all right to punch a

813
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:56.880
Nazi in the face?

814
00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:59.159
And it's like, well, you know what?

815
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:02.159
It's always all right for the doctor to throw a dictator down a

816
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:02.460
pit.

817
00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:03.239
Yeah, yeah.

818
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:06.179
And we might look at that and go, well, the doctors can be

819
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:06.480
violent.

820
00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:07.980
Well, what else is he going to do in that situation?

821
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.679
We keep coming back to this with Colin?

822
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:13.019
And it's a way it didn't quite happen with Peter.

823
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:15.780
I know you kind of raised Nathan that, for instance, in

824
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:16.920
Resurrection of Dialect.

825
00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.260
It's a situation the doctor shouldn't be put in.

826
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:23.400
Whereas in these situations where Colin has to attack cybermen or

827
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:24.539
Shockeye or the Borad.

828
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:29.699
It feels like more of a natural progression than the doctor saying

829
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:31.260
I have to go kill Davros.

830
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:36.900
Yeah, it's a situation he has to react to, which in itself is a

831
00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:41.400
problem, which the next script editor will seek to redress, that

832
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.500
the doctor is a reactionary character now.

833
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:48.840
I think that pushing the Borad isn't really particularly violent

834
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:52.440
and it's more like tripping Eldred with your scarf, you know?

835
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:55.440
Yeah, it's very different from sort of gunning someone in the face

836
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:55.860
I think.

837
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.219
And even different from poisoning shock eye last week.

838
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:01.260
I think it's hard to object to.

839
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:04.860
One of the puzzling things in this story for me as a kid was the

840
00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:05.219
robot.

841
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.960
And the fact that the burning one gets sent back in time.

842
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:11.159
Actually, I quite like that.

843
00:38:11.219 --> 00:38:12.900
I think it's good.

844
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.380
Like, I like it now, but I never understood as a kid that there

845
00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:17.400
were actually different ones.

846
00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:19.019
I just thought it was the same one.

847
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.480
And so it always confused me.

848
00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:25.619
And dear listeners, this was the 1st time I actually worked it out

849
00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:27.599
that it was actually a different one.

850
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:28.980
The 1st time.

851
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.500
Bestie doesn't say very much, does she?

852
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:32.400
No she doesn't.

853
00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:33.000
Oh dear.

854
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:35.760
Okay, ratings.

855
00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:38.039
I just want to take a moment.

856
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:41.760
I'd like to apologise to the 1000000s of people who saw this on

857
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:42.719
1st transmission.

858
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:47.820
Well, believe it or not, episode one, got 6.7 million.

859
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:52.380
So 200,000 less people than the previous week. decided not to tune

860
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:52.559
in.

861
00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:57.900
But that did put it 69th on the chart for the week, which is, you

862
00:38:57.900 --> 00:39:01.139
know, still above Attack of the Cybern in part one, which got 8.9

863
00:39:01.139 --> 00:39:01.500
million.

864
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:07.500
So, episode 2 then jumps up to 7.4, which I think is the weaker

865
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:08.880
episode of the 2 by far.

866
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:12.300
But it falls 10 places on the chart to 79th.

867
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:16.739
So again, as I said previously, what's going on, like everything's

868
00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:22.139
all over the place, but suddenly, since the cancellation, which

869
00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:25.500
was at 6 million, we're now back to 7.4 million.

870
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:27.119
So interesting.

871
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.840
Bit of a rise, but for the completely the wrong episode.

872
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:33.900
Maybe they liked episode one, you know, these things, you'd like

873
00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:37.440
an episode, people tune in, and then episode 2 of train wreck.

874
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:42.840
There are still things I like in episode two, though, that we

875
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:43.559
haven't talked about.

876
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:46.920
Like, I actually really like the bit where they lock themselves up

877
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:48.539
in the time lash room.

878
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:52.920
As a kid, I had no, I loved the journey inside the time lash, that

879
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.199
felt dynamic and exciting to me as a child.

880
00:39:55.260 --> 00:40:00.360
I look at it now and yes, I can see the bloody gaffer tape holding

881
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:03.960
on the stanchions and I know that Colin was being slowly

882
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:05.760
emasculated by a Kirby harness.

883
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:09.539
They're all kind of rubbing themselves in a suggestive way up and

884
00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:12.000
down these sort of polystyrene crystals.

885
00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:16.619
You remember when the John Nathan Turner era was really visually

886
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:17.400
inventive?

887
00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:20.880
Remember we would get Peter Grimwade in and do something really

888
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:23.579
remarkable with the way the show looked?

889
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:28.739
This looks vastly worse than the show did back when Graham

890
00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:29.639
Williams had no money.

891
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:34.440
Yeah, I think what's really coming back to bite John Nathan Turner

892
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:38.940
is his reluctance to use people with more experience than

893
00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:39.239
himself.

894
00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:44.159
And, you know, slowly we've seen he's escalated a disagreement

895
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.559
with Peter Grimwade into him never directing for the show again.

896
00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:48.480
And they're never writing for the show again.

897
00:40:48.539 --> 00:40:52.019
Yeah, well, and even then when he did write one more script, it

898
00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:54.420
was only because Eric Saywood went behind JNT's back.

899
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:58.380
You know, we've lost Lovett, Bickford and Paul Joyce, who were the

900
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:01.260
best directors of his 1st season, but it was just kind of like

901
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:03.300
well, no, they've taken too much time.

902
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:04.800
It's like rather than work with them.

903
00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:06.300
They were just never invited back again.

904
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:10.860
And instead, we get Ron Jones and Peter Moffat keep getting work

905
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:15.900
and Pennant Roberts, who is not necessarily a bad director, but by

906
00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:18.360
this point is incredibly lacklustre.

907
00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:21.900
You know, I think the only story he's really put in an amazing

908
00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:25.679
amount of work visually was the face of evil.

909
00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:28.920
He's another one who's an actor's director, but you know, you look

910
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:29.820
at the sun makers.

911
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.159
You look at Warriors of the Deep.

912
00:41:32.219 --> 00:41:35.039
He doesn't really care that much about set design so long as he's

913
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:36.059
got a set to shoot.

914
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.760
But what you've got here in this season is I think every other

915
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:43.380
story, for me in this season, has, has, I think, interesting sets

916
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:50.039
and good location work and there's theatrics and I like, like

917
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:50.579
every other one.

918
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.940
This one, it's sort of like, okay, we spent our money on

919
00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:57.960
everything else and the thing coming up, there is no money, right?

920
00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:01.199
We've only got these big sets that we can't do much with.

921
00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:05.039
And again, as you were saying, like he's casting people who just

922
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.360
aren't delivering performances.

923
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.300
And that combined with the script.

924
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.460
I'm going, that's what you said at the beginning, all these things

925
00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:12.119
mount up.

926
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:16.079
I don't mind Collins coating this because it's very colourful

927
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:17.159
compared to everything else.

928
00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:21.000
Everything else. it's not on earth, so it tends to work.

929
00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:25.679
I've spent a lot of this podcast criticising a lot of elements, but

930
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:29.099
I will say this, that when I actually did watch it, I actually

931
00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:32.280
enjoyed large chunks of it, and then there are other things that I

932
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:33.659
just think need to be edited out.

933
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:37.199
Like 35 minutes of this needs to be edited out and all the peri

934
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.679
stuff needs to be edited out and it just needs, you know, to make

935
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:41.579
something that's better.

936
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:43.440
I don't particularly hate it.

937
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:47.639
But there are just all of these problems.

938
00:42:47.699 --> 00:42:51.960
But I've defended John Nathan Turner's ability to handle money and

939
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.960
get things done, but in this case, that is not the case.

940
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.119
Is he just tired?

941
00:42:57.179 --> 00:43:03.179
Why would you as the producer allow this to be as visually a train

942
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:04.380
wreck as it is?

943
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.500
Look, I think he's learned something from the previous year, at

944
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:12.539
least, where their big blockbuster story is at least the last

945
00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:15.659
story of this season instead of the 2nd last one.

946
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:21.000
And, you know, we were mystified by just the horrific cheapness of

947
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.079
the twin dilemma.

948
00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:26.639
Now we've got horrific cheapness, but at least it's not being done

949
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:28.320
at the end of the season.

950
00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:31.260
So it's hidden in the 2nd last story.

951
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.380
This is the Doctor Who equivalent of what they will come to call

952
00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:35.820
on Star Trek, a bottle show.

953
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:40.139
So there were scripts written for Star Trek Next Generation, which

954
00:43:40.139 --> 00:43:43.260
is now only 2 years away as we talk about the story.

955
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:45.599
There were scripts written for that which were specifically

956
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.440
designed to use standing sets and maybe one planet set.

957
00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:52.860
Now, very often what they would do for those shows is they would

958
00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:55.739
do something character based, something philosophical.

959
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.059
A very good early one is called where silence has lease, where

960
00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:04.440
they're at the mercy of this intelligence, which is, which is

961
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:05.820
testing and trialling them.

962
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.099
I know not everyone considers it to be brilliant.

963
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.159
That thing with a cat face, is it?

964
00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:12.239
Yeah, Gila.

965
00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:14.460
Oh, Brandon.

966
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.760
But the thing is, Doctor Who could have done something like that

967
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:18.300
for once.

968
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:20.940
It could have done a whole story set in the Tartar, which we

969
00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:23.400
hadn't had for a while, you can still have guest actors and you

970
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:26.400
can make it interesting and trippy.

971
00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.119
But instead they do this 1960 story.

972
00:44:30.179 --> 00:44:35.159
If you look at this like a 1960s story, I think you enjoy it a lot

973
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:39.300
more, but as you said earlier, Nathan, there's no excuse for why

974
00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:40.920
we're doing a 1960s story.

975
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:46.139
The corridors outside of the borad and that main timelash set are

976
00:44:46.139 --> 00:44:51.300
lamentable and all of the caves are just useless.

977
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:56.219
And that, the caves need to, we needed 2 days of location work on

978
00:44:56.219 --> 00:44:58.380
caves to just to try and lift it.

979
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:01.920
You know, you might remember back in the dawn of time when we were

980
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:06.059
doing Planet of the Daleks, and all of a sudden, they're outdoors

981
00:45:06.059 --> 00:45:07.500
for one sequence.

982
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:09.300
For the ice cano or something like that.

983
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:11.400
And it just breaks that, you know?

984
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:14.519
And this script needed to be written so that you could film it

985
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.219
indoors completely and that is not the case.

986
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.880
I think if we're going to the 60s, and I think the nearest

987
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.400
analogue for this is probably the savages.

988
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:29.519
And I think the savages as a story is absolutely superior to this

989
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.559
in every possible respect.

990
00:45:31.980 --> 00:45:33.780
It had a message.

991
00:45:33.780 --> 00:45:38.039
Yeah, it actually had a proper political message and this liked

992
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:38.340
that.

993
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.320
It had memorable characters.

994
00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:45.000
It even had a little sword of character arc for Stephen, but it

995
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.280
was just so much better done.

996
00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:53.340
And I think by now, we've had all of these elements so many times

997
00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:58.860
our expectations that the program will be inventive and will say

998
00:45:58.860 --> 00:46:01.920
something worth saying, our expectations that that will happen

999
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.860
have virtually evaporated by now.

1000
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:09.659
And I think that we're trudging towards the end of the program and

1001
00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:14.820
something needs to happen to the creative team, to save it from

1002
00:46:14.820 --> 00:46:15.360
disaster.

1003
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:19.980
Yeah, I feel like this tries to have a message about Daytones.

1004
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:23.460
With the whole, there's a nuclear missile coming and it's going to

1005
00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:24.119
wipe us out.

1006
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:31.139
But there's perhaps one flicker of that in one scene, it's so thin

1007
00:46:31.139 --> 00:46:32.699
you know, it yeah, exactly.

1008
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.840
Not firing missiles at people is good, not having missiles fired

1009
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:37.559
at you is good.

1010
00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:41.639
Those are important messages that we can take from timelash.

1011
00:46:41.699 --> 00:46:44.099
You know, that's something the script could have been hinged

1012
00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:47.219
around and we could have, like the rebels are just rebelling

1013
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:48.059
because they're rebels.

1014
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:51.179
If the rebels had been rebelling because we know we're on the

1015
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:54.119
brink of war and we could be annihilated and we must find a way to

1016
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:54.900
make peace.

1017
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:56.880
All of a sudden, you have a story arc.

1018
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:00.960
And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with that idea.

1019
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:02.699
Why they rebelling?

1020
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:03.239
Exactly.

1021
00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:09.480
You know, were there other scripts sitting in Eric Saywood's desk

1022
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:13.199
at the time that were better than this that could have been made?

1023
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:15.900
With some editing.

1024
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:18.420
Now, I know big finish have done a season of missing episodes.

1025
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:20.880
I think Song of the Magatra was there.

1026
00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:22.019
I think there was...

1027
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:25.079
Song of the Space Whale, which is Song of the Menapjra.

1028
00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:27.840
And Leviathan, which is another one.

1029
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:30.900
I don't want to go into too much detail of this because I think

1030
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:34.199
we're going to do a podcast on the missing. season coming up.

1031
00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:36.000
But there are scripts there.

1032
00:47:36.179 --> 00:47:40.980
Now, whether it's because of budget, like they're too bit

1033
00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:41.460
expensive.

1034
00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:45.960
But then to say we're still going to go ahead with this.

1035
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:49.559
Look, I don't hate the whole thing.

1036
00:47:49.619 --> 00:47:53.039
I can actually honestly sit down and watch this, unlike other

1037
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.199
Davison's that I never want to watch again.

1038
00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:58.079
I would sit down and watch this and I can laugh with it and laugh

1039
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.619
at it, but there are bits where I have to fast forward, right?

1040
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:04.739
Yeah, it's not the worst of the worst for me, but it's very cheap

1041
00:48:04.739 --> 00:48:05.820
on every level.

1042
00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:33.420
Thankfully, dear listeners, we're departing the planet car fell

1043
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:35.699
and unlike doctor in this story, we're actually gonna go rescue

1044
00:48:35.699 --> 00:48:38.639
all those poor buggers who were in 12th century Scotland.

1045
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.519
But do come back next week as we wrap up this season with

1046
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:43.079
Revelation of the Daleks.

1047
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:46.260
Until then, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entire he.sexy

1048
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.260
flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast

1049
00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:50.039
on Twitter.

1050
00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:54.179
Over on Bondfinger, we either will shortly be starting or have

1051
00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:58.079
just started the lengthy Timothy Dalton era of Bond films, and you

1052
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.059
can find all preceding Bond films there as well.

1053
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:03.300
Bondfinger.com Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes, Bondfingercast

1054
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:03.900
on Twitter.

1055
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:08.820
Don't forget you can vote for your choice of pertwee commentary.

1056
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:13.679
The choices are Spearhead from Space, the Mutants, the 3 Doctors

1057
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:19.019
and Death to the Daleks, and also we have our upcoming Colin Baker

1058
00:49:19.019 --> 00:49:20.760
Big Finish special episode.

1059
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:24.900
So try to get yourself some copies of Jubilee, the one doctor

1060
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:27.539
Doctor Who, and the Pirates, and Chris Cross.

1061
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:32.099
Until next week, may none of your Androids be confusingly played

1062
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:32.820
by the same actor.

1063
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:34.139
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1064
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:34.800
Good night.

1065
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:36.539
See you at the Falchion Rock.

1066
00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:41.760
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan

1067
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:45.059
Bottomley, and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1068
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:48.300
This episode, Planet Zog, was recorded on the 11th of February

1069
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:49.079
2017.

1070
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:52.139
The next episode will be released on the 5th of March.

1071
00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:58.260
Nearing retirement age, why not start a new life on the planet

1072
00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:59.400
Carfell.

1073
00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:02.099
It's a beautiful place, and its complete lack of reflective

1074
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:04.920
surfaces means that you won't even realise when you start to

1075
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:06.059
really let yourself go.

1076
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:09.119
I think that's probably it.

1077
00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:10.079
Yeah, that's good.

1078
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:11.460
I'm actually just looking up.

1079
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.039
Missing stories from season 22.

1080
00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:16.199
We could have had the 1st Sontarans.

1081
00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:18.599
But they wouldn't have done that because they've just had this on

1082
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:19.079
Tyrance.

1083
00:50:19.139 --> 00:50:21.719
And there's one by, isn't there one by JP Hammond or something?

1084
00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:22.980
That's next season.

1085
00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:26.159
We could have had the Guardians of Prophecy, which big finish

1086
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:26.340
mate.

1087
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:26.880
Terrible.

1088
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.340
The Johnny Burn.

1089
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:30.059
That's awful.

1090
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:31.079
Hexagora.

1091
00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:33.960
Well, what became Hexagonora?

1092
00:50:34.019 --> 00:50:39.000
Um, There just must have been...

1093
00:50:39.059 --> 00:50:41.519
The other scripts must have been too expensive to make.

1094
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:42.239
That's all I can say.

1095
00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:46.679
I think it's probably that thing about not hiring like Nathan

1096
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:49.559
Turner's reluctance to hire good riders because he was threatened

1097
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.079
by them. threatened by them, rather, you know, it's like we need

1098
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:52.860
new people.

1099
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.659
The whole thing's gone horribly toxic.

1100
00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:00.659
And we've criticised Eric Saywood a lot, but I think, you know, I

1101
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:01.679
mean, I love this season.

1102
00:51:01.739 --> 00:51:03.599
Like I've, you know, I've said it a 1000 times.

1103
00:51:03.659 --> 00:51:04.139
I still love it.

1104
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:04.800
I love it.

1105
00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:08.280
Floors and all, I think Doctor 2 is imperfect and I feed off the

1106
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.059
imperfections in this.

1107
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:12.420
But the decisions that John Nathan Turner is making now at this

1108
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:15.840
point. are not benefitting the show.

1109
00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:16.559
They benefitting him.

1110
00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:17.159
Yeah.

1111
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:20.760
And that is that is the one criticism I will now have of him.

1112
00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:24.000
Yeah, except, you know, when he's working with Bid Meaden when

1113
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.079
he's working with Kart Mall.

1114
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:28.739
So there's something about the relationship between the 2 of

1115
00:51:28.739 --> 00:51:29.099
them.

1116
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:30.300
That's the problem.

1117
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:34.079
But now, but he's in this corner now where it's like, you know, all

1118
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:35.880
those wanting to get out, he's...

1119
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:37.980
If he does, the show's gone.

1120
00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:42.000
We could have had a story written by Ian Marta.

1121
00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:44.519
Called Volvoc.

1122
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:46.559
I would totally have been up for that.

1123
00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:48.719
I think we should wrap this one up.

1124
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:49.380
Yeah, definitely.

1125
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.039
Okay.