Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast who's under imminent danger foam of
Bendrilops warhead.
Yes, all 500 of us.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Todd, and it's that famous anagram lovers Doctor Who story
Timelash.
You know, sometimes with the Doctor Who story, a whole heap of
elements come together, and here, you know, there's the script
there's the direction, the costuming, the set design, the music
and the actors' performances all come together to make this really
an utterly, utterly horrific example of mid-80s Doctor Who.
There's not a single one of those elements that even reaches a
minimal level of acceptability.
And so for me, this is easily Colin Baker's worst story and one of
the worst stories in Doctor Who history.
Todd.
Okay.
I've criticised a lot of 80s stories and you know which ones I
don't like.
For all of those elements that you have mentioned, right?
The script falls in upon itself, the costuming and the sets and
various performances, some of which I quite like and some of which
I think are just terrific.
But I can sit here and I can actually laugh away at it and enjoy, I
actually quite enjoy episode one.
I think it completely collapses halfway through episode two.
If you were doing a bottom 10 of Doctor Who, it probably would
make my number 10 in that list.
Right?
That's like 10th from the bottom.
That's right. from the bottom.
But unlike other things that I've been bored through or enraged by
for me, it's not the worst thing ever.
What do you think is going on here?
Like, what do you think they're aiming for?
It really is the most kind of generic set of space rebels in a
bunch of space corridors.
Well, obviously they need, you know, this is the cheapy of the
season, right?
So, but it's so underwritten. in that 2nd episode.
I mean, what is Eric Sabre doing?
Well, obviously he's off writing revelation of the Daleks and not
script editing the 2nd episode of this in any way.
Does he write the big padding scene?
He does.
And a phrase, I don't use very often.
I think this is possibly only the 3rd time in the history of the
podcast.
In Eric, say with his defence.
He did actually have to perform a ground up rewrite on this to the
dialogue because the writer, Glenn McCoy, had never written for
Doctor Who before and has never written for Doctor Who again.
He did have a proper career.
I mean he did write for things.
He wrote 4 things like Angels, and I believe, casualty.
You know, he was an up and coming writer, and that's part of the
reason that they got him in.
The problem was, of course, you know, not being very experienced
with Doctor Who.
We've also had massive problems with the previous story in
broadcast 2 stories ago in production, the 2 doctors, of course
which had a rejected script from an American writer, then a
rejected script from Bob Holmes because of the location change.
Eric Say would, of course, in some way or another wrote Attack of
the Cybermen.
Even when this script was completed, Pennant Roberts read it, and
he didn't like the way the characters spoke.
He said, this is a completely alien planet, and apparently it was
written in very human vernacular and metaphor and similarly and
that sort of thing.
So Eric Zaywood had to perform that ground up rewrite while he was
well, before he went off to write Revelation, because to write
Revelation, he actually had to finish his contract to script
editor first.
Well, I mean, if you need the dialogue not to sound like anything
an actual human being from Earth would say, Eric, say, what's the
right to get?
I think one of the things that sums up this story for me is the
fact that in one of those 1st sequences with the 1st mail-in and
his son-in-law, what's his name?
Men and Renis, and they go into that cubicle thing.
Oh, the power roof.
And he pulls off the power knob.
And then, so just he puts it back on and you actually see this
happening.
How can the director not go?
That's not acceptable.
And a big problem I have with this is a lack of establishing
shots.
It's very hard to get a sense of place.
Like we get one establishing shot of the citadel.
But we have no sense of scale.
You know, we don't know how big it is aside from the fact that
it's got 500 people in it.
We know that.
Thank you.
Tyler or God, whatever you know.
We've got horrible 2 sill names.
Oh, yeah, but that's the other thing.
Everyone has, we had, you know, good names like Dastarian, Chesini
and we're going to have, you know, Tarkas and Lilt and Tassambika
next week.
This week they all have horrific 2 syllable names.
They're all Kendron and Vina and Mecross and things.
They're all sort of terrible.
And there's a terrible scene early on where Me Cross and Vina are
having an argument for no reason other than to explain the
structure of this society to all. the people at home.
And I just can't possibly care about anyone on this planet.
There are 500 people in these sort of terrible space corridors.
Later on, when we learn that the Bender Lips warhead is heading to
Carfell, we learn that there are 1000000s of lives at stake.
I bet I think that's written by Eric Saywood much later.
But I just don't care about them.
They are the planet Zog.
They're literally the Zog people being menaced by the Zog monster
and I just don't care.
And there's really nothing here that we haven't seen done before a
lot of times and done better.
And I do feel that Glenn McCoy has a feeling that this is the sort
of thing that Doctor Who does, that does rebels in space
corridors.
And it's clear that the high concept that he wants to pin this on
is the time lash, and it's called time lash, and there's some
timey stuff.
So when the borad shoots someone, they age, you know, the time
lashes, this sort of fearsome thing, but the time lash looks like
something in a light entertainment set, like something in a game
show, and it's in no way impressive looking.
It's got those sort of tinsel lights, the sort of crappy sequins
all over it, people just fade into it and scream.
You know, the lights go up like it's a special round on the
weakest link, and that's what we're pinning it on.
And that's the only thing that distinguishes this from anything
else.
And we've seen plenty of stories where the doctor comes in and
overthrows for government, but the government is interesting in an
interesting way or is a political satire in some way, but that's
not what the show does anymore in this period.
So, you know, what do we learn here?
That dictatorships are bad.
It's really so empty.
And so there are bits that are charming, and there's one character
in particular, whom I like a great deal, even though I think he's
a mistake in some ways.
And who is that?
I really like her, but.
I adore her, but yeah.
Why couldn't we keep him on?
He would have been a great companion.
Look, in his 1st sequences with the doctor in that hut and he's
trying to like exercise exorcise, not exercise.
Although he could do with that.
And then bash him with the book.
Like, I actually find it really funny and adorable.
He's charming, isn't he?
And in a bumbling sort of way, and he has a great relationship
with the doctor.
And in that hideous padding scene in episode two, which Eric
Seward had to write because the episode was running under time.
Like, Colin Baker's face, when he looks at Herbert, when Herbert's
doing whatever.
And it just burst out laughing. like even though like the scene is
complete padding.
There's something I like about her, but I don't like the, you know
the fact that he's revealed to be HD Wells and that sort of thing
is...
Well, that's the bit that I think is stupid because he's nothing
at all like HG Wells.
Yeah, HG Wells was a socialist and a Hugs list. you know.
Of course, he had religion growing up in the time he grew up in
but he was not devoutly religious and certainly was not sort of
conscious of devils and probably wasn't experimenting with ouija
boards.
I don't believe he was ever even a teacher.
He studied to be a teacher, but he never completed.
He was known as George.
Like he said, Herbert George Wells.
He was called George.
He had a northern accent, I think.
You know, like he's really nothing like her, but, and in a sense
that doesn't matter.
But if you're going to have a celebrity historical, and this is
the 2nd celebrity historical this season, and the 1st time we've
ever had celebrity historicals, actually.
Well, since Marco Polo.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
So there's not very much point.
In fact, I think that the point is that this lamentably bad Doctor
Who story is the inspiration for the science fiction career of one
of the great science fiction writers of all time, who borrows the
name Vina and the Morlockses and stuff.
The Island of Dr. Monroe, Invisible Man, all of that stuff.
And look, HG Wells was capable of some really incredible crap, if
you've ever read in the days of a comet, which is just rubbish, but
it has a political kind of socialist message.
You know, the idea that he was in any way inspired by this dreary
runaround is really just kind of insulting.
It's a missed opportunity, isn't it?
The story could be political because it is about a rebellion
against an oppressive government and you've got this really
incredibly political science fiction writer, but we get no
politics in this story.
After what you just said, I find it quite funny that this crummy
doctor story actually ends up inspiring all of these works of
literature.
Like I think there's something deliciously, well, just humourous
in that.
If I was to do this, can I just indulge me for a moment?
Yeah, sort of fantasy directing.
So somebody out there can do this for me, right?
So I'd have, I'd have Mikos and the mail in about to go into the
power room, have their scene, cut to the doctor and Perry in the
TARDIS.
They know that the time tunnel thing's there and they're heading
for like doomsday.
Cut back to the mainland being taken to the Borad, cut back to the
doctor impairing the TARDIS, cut back to Mikos and Vina having a
bit of a conversation to set the scene.
Cut back to the Dr. Imperi and the TARDIS cut back to the main
being killed and our good friend Paul Darrow taking over, cut back
to the Dr. Imperi and the TARDIS.
Like, you know, little brief snippets.
Then cut back to Paul Darrow's striding in and saying, you know
your father's dead, right?
Cut back to the doctor and Miriam Matata.
Cut back to, you know, that pathetic person that pleads for Gazak
his people.
What's the, I don't even know what the lines of dialogue are, but
you know, he pleads for his people.
He gets shoved down the time lash. doesn't it all hell break loose
at that point?
or am I am I?
Yeah, and that's where Vina.
Okay, steel...
Cut back to the doctor.
Imperi Natana's, Vina goes through, right?
Cut back to Carfell, and then you cut to the TARDIS coming up the
corridor.
It's just such a bad.
But then you cut to the boy going, it appears the doctor is making
a return visit to Carfell. queue opening title sequence.
Or end of episode, right?
Right?
So you're just doing a huge edit on all of those things.
Because in that 1st sequence of stuff, you see like bland
corridors of those that robot thing and people getting captured
and you don't care.
Like, I think the girl's okay.
The rebel cats.
Yeah, she's actually she's actually quite good.
Vina, I, I'm just going to say this.
I absolutely adore her in this entire story, the fact that she's
obviously on Xanax or something, except that that one sequence
where she has to get up on a chair and stop the Borhead from
looking through his video monitor or whatever she does.
But I really love her performance.
It's just so wooden.
It's just I just love it, you know?
And then we just constantly spaced out.
And then having Nikos going, you're just a figurehead.
I love his little performance.
Pour down nearly acceptable.
Nicola looks fantastic, right?
Yeah, 1st proper decent outfit she's had.
I think the highlight scene for me, the highlight, the whole thing
which I just burst out laughing every time, is when Paul Darrow's
character gets killed by the borat, and the skeleton drops to the
floor, the skull goes, thump.
Thump.
It's a double bang on the floor.
I remember this as a kid and I just burst out laughing and I just
wait for that moment every time it is the moment I wait for.
His little sidekick, Kendron, might be one of the worst before.
Like, I think he makes some Leonard Sachs look like, you know
Robert De Niro, frankly.
I have been faithful to you.
Doesn't the boy do obey with him too?
Yes.
He's got this giant IMDb page.
He's in a Bond film.
Like he's in tomorrow, never dies.
He's in the last king of Scotland.
He's got a proper career.
He looks like he is from the year 10 production of an inspector
calls.
He's so bad.
I love the fact that he's so bad and so feeble and so crap and
meets that end.
I just take perverse pleasure.
That's what I take.
The 1st pleasure, you know, performances and things in this that
are just going to, that's so crap, but I'm laughing with it and
going with it.
Pennant Roberts was actually trying to get him into Doctor Who for
ages.
He was meant to be either Tomas or Caleb in the face of evil.
He was meant to be one of the principal younger men.
And I'm so glad we didn't get him because Leslie Schofield and the
really hot chap who plays Tomas, whose name I can't remember.
They're perfect in those roles.
He's not replacing Tomas ever.
Thank you.
Or David Garfield.
That was a really good looking cast.
Can we go back there?
Something I do love in this story, though, is the HG Wells
references aren't hammered into your skull.
They are subtle Easter eggs there for people who either know the
works of HG Wells or...
And this is possibly a bit ambitious after they watch the story
might go and read some HG Wells, which is very much in keeping
with what Colin Baker wanted the program to be. wanted it to
inspire children to learn new words and new ideas.
This to me feels like a 1960s story.
This was another one I took Richard's advice and watched him black
and white and it really lifts it.
Another way I look at this story to help me get through it, is
it's another example, and there's so much of it this season of
making it like a Shakespeare.
So you have your principal cast.
You have the doctor, you have Perry, you have Tekka, the Borad
Herbert, and they're sort of the bigger characters and everyone
else fades into the background a little bit.
Literally in the case of some of their costumes.
And Tekka's characterisation, Paul Darrow's performance is
magnetic to watch.
I really hate it.
I really, really hate it.
I love it.
People going over the top.
I love Jackie Pierce last week.
I thought she was glorious.
He's horrible to watch.
And they lost so much studio time because they kept having to
order retakes because he was putting in even more than that.
But I really like it. sabotaging it.
Well, I do wonder that sometimes because famously, and we'll come
back to this next week, um, this is sort of a two-part anecdote
Colin Baker played Babe in the Butcher in an episode of Blake 7 in
a very similar way to Paul Darrow playing techa here, but arguably
better. enjoyable in that episode.
Well, I find Paul Darrow enjoyable here as well, but I do
sometimes wonder if Paul Darrow is playing it like this because of
the way Colin Baker came into his show to play that.
But I think that's an urban myth and I think it's something that
people have suggested and then he's played on.
That's what I think.
I mean, the other thing is that, you know, he had an argument with
John Nathan Turner about what he was doing.
Well, he wanted to be Richard III.
He literally wanted to have a hump.
But I do find it so hilarious when he goes like, we'll do a tour
of the citadel for your assistant.
And then he has that plant and shoves that plant into the doctor's
face or whatever.
Like, these little things like that I do like, but I do get the
fact that it is such an overthrop performance.
You're either going to...
I think you can't be in the gray area.
You either really love it or you really don't, and I can
understand exactly where you're coming from, but for me, it's sort
of like it's the, it's one thing that keeps me glued to the screen
when there's other beige sets with beige people with, you know
things I don't really care about.
I actually think that Colin's visibly uncomfortable acting
opposite him.
And it could just be me reading into it.
But I just think that Colin doesn't like it.
When was this recorded in order?
No, it is the 2nd last story recorded?
It is the 2nd last because suddenly Collins kind of horrible.
And again, I think it's Collins studio problem.
That 1st scene with Perry and all that stuff in the TARDIS.
He's just obnoxious.
I put that down again to say word and having to have these
delaying tactics before we get to whatever and it's another one of
these bitch scenes.
I don't think it's as bad as Varos.
But it is like, okay, at this point in the season, we don't really
need it anymore.
No, that's right.
It was actually even worse in the script.
There's a line in the script to the effect of...
The doctor says, while Perry's in the room, but not directly to
her, This girl vexes me so much, I might as well kill myself.
Well, I'm glad they didn't do that.
Well, it's Pennant Roberts, Colin Baker, and Nicola Bryant just
said, no, we're not doing this anymore.
For me, there's only one bit of that scene that's really bad and
that's when he screams bad at her and she cringes.
You know, that's really horrible.
The rest of it, I don't mind so much like when he's giving this
description of this place and she's like, that's exactly what you
say about the eyebrow.
And he has a tank.
And another thing I actually really love is the beginning of that
padding scene where Perry's insisting on coming with him and
they're actually showing genuine concern and affection for one
another.
And it's it's a really good balance for the characters because
it's it's sort of the equivalent of that scene in the hand of fear
where I worry about you, but I worry about you.
But these 2 characters would never quite put it in those words.
They're both a little bit too proud.
So it turns into an argument.
But I agree with you, and I do like that bit because you know the
doctor is concerned and wants her out of the Tartar, in case he
doesn't come back.
And I do like that bit of it.
The thing that gets to me is the fact that episode one was
overrunning by several minutes, and Pennant Roberts wanted to move
the cliffhanger earlier, he felt there was a point and the rest of
that stuff could go into episode 2 and they wouldn't be a
problem.
John Nathan Turner wouldn't have it.
Yeah, because the episode cliffhanger had to be the doctor in
peril, where Pennant wanted to move it was Perry in peril.
It was the scene where they're in the caves and she realises she's
dropped the note and the guards burst in and shoot one of the
rebels.
And Pennant said, look, I've got these shots.
I can make it look like Perry's been shot.
Like Tomb of the Cybermen, episode 3 where we don't know who's
been shot.
And it's like, actually, that would have worked.
But instead, yeah, they had to cut stuff out of episode one to
make it fit and then put this stuff into episode two.
Even then, there was some stuff they managed to move out of
episode one into episode two, like Perry being dragged along to
the Morlocks, but that creates this kind of weird thing where
she's dragged along and tied up near a Morlocks, and then she's
dragged back to a cell, and then she's dragged back to the
Morlocks again.
I hate that.
I hate that she has a thing around her neck and she's being
dragged along.
I think that this story, it may be, apart from that scene in Twin
Dilemma, might be the worst treatment that Perry receives.
It's the 2nd time this season where she's going to be transformed
into something against her will.
She's tied up and menaced by the least convincing alien threat
since...
Brontosaur penis head.
Yeah, it's awful.
And it is like you joke about, you know, brontosaur penis head, but
it is phallic.
It is, you know, a phallus tentatus.
She is pathetic in her response to it.
She just screams until a man comes along and rescues her.
And kudos to Herbert, who I think is lovely and gets to have a
hero moment there rescuing Perry, but it's just pathetic that
Perry needs rescuing again.
And the threat is she's going to be forced to breed with the
Borad.
So it's sexual, you know, and when she says, don't I get a say in
this at the very end, and the doctor says, no, of course not, shut
up, which is meant to be a funny line, Colin delivers it that way
it's just a little bit depressing, but that's exactly the point.
And this is where the whole thing falls down is because the moment
she goes on the tour of the citadel, she's just then there's a
victim, right?
Which is so 1960s and should not be now in the 1980s.
Even the 1960s didn't do it that much.
But the Borads plan is insane.
Like, he's not even going to breed with a person from his own
planet, and it all comes down to the fact that this gas and the
thing has to attack her at the, like, there's no scientific
reasonable rhyme.
The doctor even calls him out on that.
You know, he says that's hardly a scientific experiment.
Where's your control?
Couldn't he clone a whole bunch of borants as well, given that he
has a few spares in his closet somewhere?
Do you know, every time I watch this story, I forget the terrific
plot trist that he's cloned himself, right?
I always forget, and then it's like, well, we've got 15 minutes to
go, what's going to happen?
Then suddenly it's a clone and I'm going, every time I watch it, I
forget.
Yeah, and is that with a different coloured eye as well?
I think the makeup, I think the makeup on the borat.
Yeah, is great.
And his performance is great.
And I love his little set thing, you know, you know, I do like
that set and I don't mind not in the timelash set, which looks
like, but that other big set, like, is quite good, but then all
the other sets are just rubbish.
But I like the Borad stuff.
Okay?
I do like Paul Darrow at times.
I think Colin gives a good performance in what is a terrible
script.
But when we're in the time lash room and the doctor has the
crystal thing, okay?
So he stands there and he turns it off, right?
Now, surely it should then project him there.
He should move away to the console.
The bride should then fire the laser to this projection.
Then the doctor should move to the console, we should fire it
there.
So he's actually not in the beam, but the way it shot is he's
still standing as the beam goes through him.
So he should technically drop dead.
It's wrong.
We've had a 15, 20 minute scene of him explaining how that thing
works and then it doesn't work directed incorrectly.
He is shot with that beam.
It's really bad.
I don't understand how the director could get it that wrong in
that sequence.
It's really an app.
I actually think that there is something slightly sweet about that
and that he has a gun that sends you back in time and he has a
magic time crystal that does things and clearly the story was
meant to be about a society that uses time as a weapon or
something like that.
Yeah, in Glenn McCoy's original outline, there was a lot more
about time and also his original outline was a Dalek story.
The Daleks were going to be the bandrels invading this planet, and
it was going to be about the car felons fighting them off, and
Eric Saywood said, no, sorry, I'm writing the Dalek story.
So that didn't happen.
Oh, the banjals.
The bandreals are coming.
The glove puppets are coming.
I love the bandals.
They are actually 30 foot tall cyborg.
I love them and I love all that stuff and I also love, you may
remember this.
Friends of the podcast, Simon Moore, Peter Griffithson, I think
Kate Orman, back many years ago, when they was film students, did
a re-edit of that, and Simon had a sock on his hand, and so he
does the whole Bandral thing with this sock, and I just let, and
the final sequence was when it drops out of sight reminds me of
the drashings.
I wish I had I think I've got it on video.
I need to dig it up, but it was just so funny.
Like, I love the band draws.
But in that padding scene, the doctor could have explained
something about using the crystal to deflect the, you know, just
some bit of dialogue in there rather than what we get when he gets
back and he says to Perry, oh, I'll tell you later.
We get no explanation as to how that happens.
And I just sit there going, if you're going to write a padding
scene, give me some scientific, you know, mumbo jumbo.
Give me something.
And there was, in the script, there was a technobabble
explanation.
It still didn't make any sense, but there's no reason to cut it.
I mean, Colin Baker was not John Bertwick.
Colin Baker could do techno babble, for God's sake.
Speaking of which, this is the other thing that gets to me with
this story. is the fact that we have to then have this continuity
thing where it's referencing a previous adventure that the perjury
doctor has gone on, which no one has ever seen.
Like, you know, I'm sure when they pitch this, they might have
thought, oh, fans will get something out of this.
Ooh, it's an adventure we've never seen, but to the general public
they'd be going like, well, you know, it's an alienating thing.
It's another continuity thing.
And the fact that M Perry has to be versed in having like who Joe
Grant is and we have to have the locket with Joe. And then it
seems at one moment, there's one companion, but in the dialogue
it's like, oh, there's only one of you this time.
So there must have been somebody else.
Mike Yates.
Well, that's the only one that could be, you know?
I think Paul Cornell reconed that in speed of flight.
I think that was written by Paul Cornell.
And at the end, sort of, that's Mike Yates going off and having an
adventure with the doctor and Joe, and at the end, they're heading
to Carfell in the epilogue.
Oh wow.
But, you know, as a kid, I kind of liked, you know, the shattering
of the mirror wall or whatever it is and the picture of them.
Like, I liked that, like, as a little nerd fanboy.
But I think it's just, it robs, it robs the story of them having
to prove who they are to the rebels or to who's trying to
overthrow and, and I just don't like that in Doctor Who, where
it's some person we've met before.
Like it's just a shorthand.
It's just a shorthand to get into it without really having a
payoff.
There's a real problem we've said before about continuity in this
era.
And I've said that when they do it, they get it wrong like last
week.
And now here we have just completely invented continuity.
And, you know, if having continuity references has any value at
all, and, you know, the new series has shown that it does, is that
you get a flicker of recognition from longtime fans, you know, I
love the recreation of the 1st doctor's TARDIS console room
towards the end of series nine.
I thought that stuff was really great But here, now we're
inventing continuity and putting it in and it's hard to know what
possible reason we could have it.
And I think it is because Glenn McCoy has got the idea that that's
the sort of thing that Doctor Who does.
Yeah, I remember years ago.
When Doctor Who magazine started doing their special editions, they
do 3 of a year.
Their 1st run was special editions based on the doctors.
So there was the complete 6th doctor, and the forward, I believe
was written by Gareth Roberts.
And he has a wonderful line in that where he says, in this era of
the show, the doctor becomes the show's fetishistic raison
d'etre.
And if you look at this past season and the twin dilemma, Vengeance
on Baros is the only story where people don't know who Time Lords
are.
Yeah, that's boring, isn't it?
I hate the constant references to regeneration that we get
throughout this year.
You know, it just reminds us that Colin never gets to be the
doctor.
He's always the 6th doctor and even that terrible, terrible
nickname for him that you used the other day in chat.
What, 60?
Yeah, don't ever say that in my presence again. acknowledges the
fact that he's just one of many doctors and the references to
regeneration do that as well.
And I hate it.
Yeah.
I mean, the bit with the Borat referring to his ability to
regenerate, like that won't save you.
That was put in, you know, because fans might object, but I think
it's something that takes you out of the moment.
It's kind of like at every episode ending and every time the
doctor's under threat, we have to shoehorn some dialogue in
explaining, yes, we're aware that the doctor regenerates, you know
like, do we have to do that?
The show got on for like 14, 15, 16 years without it.
And, you know, we've got the continuity of the doctor having met
the Borad when he was a scientist, some sort of past history that
you know, really in the end means nothing.
Yeah.
It would be an interesting touch if we didn't do it so often
already.
Like, you know, in recent stories we've had as male, we've had the
cyber controller, who we're meant to believe, at least in mind, is
the same cyber controller, as the doctor had previously met, we've
had the master and the Rani.
We've had Destari, who's an old friend of the doctors.
In a way, it's a bit more valid in the story because this story
needs a bit more depth.
But as you say, it doesn't mean much in the end.
You know, it's just this line of, yes, we've met before, doctor
and it's like, well, so bloody what?
You know, I really would, I really think if they'd done a complete
edit of this whole thing, like as a, as a 45 minute or 50 minute
episode and really cut it down, a 10 minute children in need
episode.
Well, yes, that's extreme.
Like, you know, the edit that I was talking about earlier, but
then going through part 2 and just really just it's the borat and
it's the missile coming and just leave it at that and really cut
it back.
You might have something that's acceptable and ditch a lot of this
other continuity stuff.
I mean, all the stuff with the rebels and the Felch and rocks and
that sort of thing is just like...
Like, who cares?
You know, there is one thing this story gets right that rarely
gets done right in this era and that's letting the doctor solve
the problem.
And so the doctor does something clever.
He tricks the borad into shooting himself with his own laser, so
he defeats him without, you know, just gunning him in the face.
Then he sacrifices himself to save them from the oncoming
missile.
You know, he does have a proper role in resolving the story.
The oncoming missile, though, is absolutely ruined by the fact
that there is that 10 minute padding scene in the middle of it
that robs it of any urgency whatsoever.
So the missiles coming, but we have time to bitch and talk in the
TARDIS for ages and ages.
Yeah, I find that scene so charming.
You know, it's almost the opposite of that 7 minute scene I
mentioned last week in Dastari's office, which had a few moments
of charm. but just feels like it should have been interspersed
with other things, whereas having this almost in real time with
just one cutaway back there, it lets George Chandler as Herbert
shine a little bit more as well because he goes from being all
gung-ho and oh, we're going to save the world too.
Oh, I didn't realise we were going to die.
I sit between you two.
Like, I mean, I know it's padding.
There's parts of it that I like and there's other parts where I'm
going to go, like, give me more, give me explanations, that sort
of thing.
I think it just robs the story of pace at a time when it really
needs it because that's a really dramatic bit.
There's no music either.
I think the music here is extremely inept, but there's no music
there to help sell it.
You know, like we're all in terrible danger, but it's all word
peril.
We just have the banjals telling us they've sent a missile.
We have a lot of standing around in the TARDIS talking about this
terrible missile.
All of that.
We only have the budget for one bandrol ship.
So the other 2 ships of the fleet are represented by little green
asterisks.
The music is by Elizabeth Parker, who, unless I'm very much
mistaken, is Doctor Who's 1st female incidental music composer, I
know we've had like the Delian mode in Inferno, but that wasn't
written specifically for it.
And I think she may remain to date, Doctor Who's only female music
composer.
And she's not back again, is she ever?
No, no.
But she had done a lot of work on Blake 7.
Yeah, in fact, there's only one episode of Blake 7 that isn't
scored by Dudley Simpson, and that's the episode that Dougie
Campfield directs called Duel in season one.
Of course, Dougie Campfield wouldn't have anything to do with
Dudley Simpson.
And so Elizabeth Parker does do the incidental music on that.
Right, just the one episode then.
But you did do sound and stuff, I think. right.
I have to say, I do like the fact that the doctor and Perry are
pleased to see each other at the end. really nice. you know?
It's nice moment.
Now, can you tell me what the fake cliffhangers are for episode
one and 3 in the Australian edits?
Is it, it appears the doctor is making return visit or have I got
that wrong?
I thought it was just before that I thought it was.
And don't go wandering off.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
And what about in episode three?
Is it Perry versus the Morlocks?
Is that a cliffhanger?
Yes.
So that at least feels like a proper cliffhanger.
And it kind of has her scream leading into the cliffhanger.
Right.
And the actual cliffhanger in the middle is...
He's also going into the time lash.
Goodbye, doctor.
Unpleasant journey with a close-up on Colin's face. doing that
tongue thing.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm in the pain is never...
And we get a crash zoom on the time.
Timelash as well.
Oh, can I just say another continuity thing?
Another continuity thing, right?
So the time lash, like the doctor suffers the terrible threat that
he might end up in 12th century Scotland or something. you know
and we already kind of know that.
At the end, the Borad goes through the time, she should do and
ends up as the Loch Ness Monster.
Because we've never had a Doctor Who story that explains the Loch
Ness monster before.
Not only do we have 3 Atlantis, we now have 2 Loch Ness Monsters.
It's Doctor Who, it's imperfect.
I laugh at that.
Okay, I agree.
I agree.
But it's something that you think that they would they care about
that in this year.
So why are they doing that?
Where's Ian Levine?
he on holiday?
Fans pointed that out and John Nathan Turner's response was
exactly what you just said, well, there's 2 of them now.
Right. lovely.
Lovely.
Something this story comes in for criticism of.
I don't think I've said this explicitly, but yeah, I quite enjoy
this one.
I enjoy it more than the 2 doctors, but something the story comes
into criticism of is the doctor's dispatching of the 2nd Borad.
Well, in a sense, I don't mind that.
And there is something fairy tale about him being defeated by the
side of a mirror, and it really, you know, the story is leading up
to it.
It's laid in the mirror thing, it's deliberately designed sets
that look incredibly boring and dull as Perry points out because
of the mirror thing and his anxiety about how he looks.
And so, like, I've already talked about the awful dialogue between
the doctor and Perry and the fact that once again, Perry's going
to be forcibly bred with an all of that's awful.
But, you know, like, I think that having him shrinking away from
the mirror is fine, I think there's no way that he can't end up
being pushed in the timelash, you know, the narrative, just, yeah
heading towards that.
Yeah, I mean, some people have said he's bullying the Borat based
on his looks and I watched this story in a new light this time
based on current political events.
Tekka is Trump because Tekka has no idea how to do his job.
So he just makes grandiose claims and calls up their nearby allies
and says, no, we're not going to give you any grain.
Sure, what are you going to do?
Bomas kind of thing.
Whereas.
So who's the Borat?
Well, that's the thing.
I was looking at...
Steve Bannon.
I was looking at that scene going.
People always say, is it all right for the doctor to throw the
ball out in the time lash.
And another part of my brain just said, is it all right to punch a
Nazi in the face?
And it's like, well, you know what?
It's always all right for the doctor to throw a dictator down a
pit.
Yeah, yeah.
And we might look at that and go, well, the doctors can be
violent.
Well, what else is he going to do in that situation?
We keep coming back to this with Colin?
And it's a way it didn't quite happen with Peter.
I know you kind of raised Nathan that, for instance, in
Resurrection of Dialect.
It's a situation the doctor shouldn't be put in.
Whereas in these situations where Colin has to attack cybermen or
Shockeye or the Borad.
It feels like more of a natural progression than the doctor saying
I have to go kill Davros.
Yeah, it's a situation he has to react to, which in itself is a
problem, which the next script editor will seek to redress, that
the doctor is a reactionary character now.
I think that pushing the Borad isn't really particularly violent
and it's more like tripping Eldred with your scarf, you know?
Yeah, it's very different from sort of gunning someone in the face
I think.
And even different from poisoning shock eye last week.
I think it's hard to object to.
One of the puzzling things in this story for me as a kid was the
robot.
And the fact that the burning one gets sent back in time.
Actually, I quite like that.
I think it's good.
Like, I like it now, but I never understood as a kid that there
were actually different ones.
I just thought it was the same one.
And so it always confused me.
And dear listeners, this was the 1st time I actually worked it out
that it was actually a different one.
The 1st time.
Bestie doesn't say very much, does she?
No she doesn't.
Oh dear.
Okay, ratings.
I just want to take a moment.
I'd like to apologise to the 1000000s of people who saw this on
1st transmission.
Well, believe it or not, episode one, got 6.7 million.
So 200,000 less people than the previous week. decided not to tune
in.
But that did put it 69th on the chart for the week, which is, you
know, still above Attack of the Cybern in part one, which got 8.9
million.
So, episode 2 then jumps up to 7.4, which I think is the weaker
episode of the 2 by far.
But it falls 10 places on the chart to 79th.
So again, as I said previously, what's going on, like everything's
all over the place, but suddenly, since the cancellation, which
was at 6 million, we're now back to 7.4 million.
So interesting.
Bit of a rise, but for the completely the wrong episode.
Maybe they liked episode one, you know, these things, you'd like
an episode, people tune in, and then episode 2 of train wreck.
There are still things I like in episode two, though, that we
haven't talked about.
Like, I actually really like the bit where they lock themselves up
in the time lash room.
As a kid, I had no, I loved the journey inside the time lash, that
felt dynamic and exciting to me as a child.
I look at it now and yes, I can see the bloody gaffer tape holding
on the stanchions and I know that Colin was being slowly
emasculated by a Kirby harness.
They're all kind of rubbing themselves in a suggestive way up and
down these sort of polystyrene crystals.
You remember when the John Nathan Turner era was really visually
inventive?
Remember we would get Peter Grimwade in and do something really
remarkable with the way the show looked?
This looks vastly worse than the show did back when Graham
Williams had no money.
Yeah, I think what's really coming back to bite John Nathan Turner
is his reluctance to use people with more experience than
himself.
And, you know, slowly we've seen he's escalated a disagreement
with Peter Grimwade into him never directing for the show again.
And they're never writing for the show again.
Yeah, well, and even then when he did write one more script, it
was only because Eric Saywood went behind JNT's back.
You know, we've lost Lovett, Bickford and Paul Joyce, who were the
best directors of his 1st season, but it was just kind of like
well, no, they've taken too much time.
It's like rather than work with them.
They were just never invited back again.
And instead, we get Ron Jones and Peter Moffat keep getting work
and Pennant Roberts, who is not necessarily a bad director, but by
this point is incredibly lacklustre.
You know, I think the only story he's really put in an amazing
amount of work visually was the face of evil.
He's another one who's an actor's director, but you know, you look
at the sun makers.
You look at Warriors of the Deep.
He doesn't really care that much about set design so long as he's
got a set to shoot.
But what you've got here in this season is I think every other
story, for me in this season, has, has, I think, interesting sets
and good location work and there's theatrics and I like, like
every other one.
This one, it's sort of like, okay, we spent our money on
everything else and the thing coming up, there is no money, right?
We've only got these big sets that we can't do much with.
And again, as you were saying, like he's casting people who just
aren't delivering performances.
And that combined with the script.
I'm going, that's what you said at the beginning, all these things
mount up.
I don't mind Collins coating this because it's very colourful
compared to everything else.
Everything else. it's not on earth, so it tends to work.
I've spent a lot of this podcast criticising a lot of elements, but
I will say this, that when I actually did watch it, I actually
enjoyed large chunks of it, and then there are other things that I
just think need to be edited out.
Like 35 minutes of this needs to be edited out and all the peri
stuff needs to be edited out and it just needs, you know, to make
something that's better.
I don't particularly hate it.
But there are just all of these problems.
But I've defended John Nathan Turner's ability to handle money and
get things done, but in this case, that is not the case.
Is he just tired?
Why would you as the producer allow this to be as visually a train
wreck as it is?
Look, I think he's learned something from the previous year, at
least, where their big blockbuster story is at least the last
story of this season instead of the 2nd last one.
And, you know, we were mystified by just the horrific cheapness of
the twin dilemma.
Now we've got horrific cheapness, but at least it's not being done
at the end of the season.
So it's hidden in the 2nd last story.
This is the Doctor Who equivalent of what they will come to call
on Star Trek, a bottle show.
So there were scripts written for Star Trek Next Generation, which
is now only 2 years away as we talk about the story.
There were scripts written for that which were specifically
designed to use standing sets and maybe one planet set.
Now, very often what they would do for those shows is they would
do something character based, something philosophical.
A very good early one is called where silence has lease, where
they're at the mercy of this intelligence, which is, which is
testing and trialling them.
I know not everyone considers it to be brilliant.
That thing with a cat face, is it?
Yeah, Gila.
Oh, Brandon.
But the thing is, Doctor Who could have done something like that
for once.
It could have done a whole story set in the Tartar, which we
hadn't had for a while, you can still have guest actors and you
can make it interesting and trippy.
But instead they do this 1960 story.
If you look at this like a 1960s story, I think you enjoy it a lot
more, but as you said earlier, Nathan, there's no excuse for why
we're doing a 1960s story.
The corridors outside of the borad and that main timelash set are
lamentable and all of the caves are just useless.
And that, the caves need to, we needed 2 days of location work on
caves to just to try and lift it.
You know, you might remember back in the dawn of time when we were
doing Planet of the Daleks, and all of a sudden, they're outdoors
for one sequence.
For the ice cano or something like that.
And it just breaks that, you know?
And this script needed to be written so that you could film it
indoors completely and that is not the case.
I think if we're going to the 60s, and I think the nearest
analogue for this is probably the savages.
And I think the savages as a story is absolutely superior to this
in every possible respect.
It had a message.
Yeah, it actually had a proper political message and this liked
that.
It had memorable characters.
It even had a little sword of character arc for Stephen, but it
was just so much better done.
And I think by now, we've had all of these elements so many times
our expectations that the program will be inventive and will say
something worth saying, our expectations that that will happen
have virtually evaporated by now.
And I think that we're trudging towards the end of the program and
something needs to happen to the creative team, to save it from
disaster.
Yeah, I feel like this tries to have a message about Daytones.
With the whole, there's a nuclear missile coming and it's going to
wipe us out.
But there's perhaps one flicker of that in one scene, it's so thin
you know, it yeah, exactly.
Not firing missiles at people is good, not having missiles fired
at you is good.
Those are important messages that we can take from timelash.
You know, that's something the script could have been hinged
around and we could have, like the rebels are just rebelling
because they're rebels.
If the rebels had been rebelling because we know we're on the
brink of war and we could be annihilated and we must find a way to
make peace.
All of a sudden, you have a story arc.
And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with that idea.
Why they rebelling?
Exactly.
You know, were there other scripts sitting in Eric Saywood's desk
at the time that were better than this that could have been made?
With some editing.
Now, I know big finish have done a season of missing episodes.
I think Song of the Magatra was there.
I think there was...
Song of the Space Whale, which is Song of the Menapjra.
And Leviathan, which is another one.
I don't want to go into too much detail of this because I think
we're going to do a podcast on the missing. season coming up.
But there are scripts there.
Now, whether it's because of budget, like they're too bit
expensive.
But then to say we're still going to go ahead with this.
Look, I don't hate the whole thing.
I can actually honestly sit down and watch this, unlike other
Davison's that I never want to watch again.
I would sit down and watch this and I can laugh with it and laugh
at it, but there are bits where I have to fast forward, right?
Yeah, it's not the worst of the worst for me, but it's very cheap
on every level.
Thankfully, dear listeners, we're departing the planet car fell
and unlike doctor in this story, we're actually gonna go rescue
all those poor buggers who were in 12th century Scotland.
But do come back next week as we wrap up this season with
Revelation of the Daleks.
Until then, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entire he.sexy
flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast
on Twitter.
Over on Bondfinger, we either will shortly be starting or have
just started the lengthy Timothy Dalton era of Bond films, and you
can find all preceding Bond films there as well.
Bondfinger.com Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes, Bondfingercast
on Twitter.
Don't forget you can vote for your choice of pertwee commentary.
The choices are Spearhead from Space, the Mutants, the 3 Doctors
and Death to the Daleks, and also we have our upcoming Colin Baker
Big Finish special episode.
So try to get yourself some copies of Jubilee, the one doctor
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Until next week, may none of your Androids be confusingly played
by the same actor.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
See you at the Falchion Rock.
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan
Bottomley, and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, Planet Zog, was recorded on the 11th of February
2017.
The next episode will be released on the 5th of March.
Nearing retirement age, why not start a new life on the planet
Carfell.
It's a beautiful place, and its complete lack of reflective
surfaces means that you won't even realise when you start to
really let yourself go.
I think that's probably it.
Yeah, that's good.
I'm actually just looking up.
Missing stories from season 22.
We could have had the 1st Sontarans.
But they wouldn't have done that because they've just had this on
Tyrance.
And there's one by, isn't there one by JP Hammond or something?
That's next season.
We could have had the Guardians of Prophecy, which big finish
mate.
Terrible.
The Johnny Burn.
That's awful.
Hexagora.
Well, what became Hexagonora?
Um, There just must have been...
The other scripts must have been too expensive to make.
That's all I can say.
I think it's probably that thing about not hiring like Nathan
Turner's reluctance to hire good riders because he was threatened
by them. threatened by them, rather, you know, it's like we need
new people.
The whole thing's gone horribly toxic.
And we've criticised Eric Saywood a lot, but I think, you know, I
mean, I love this season.
Like I've, you know, I've said it a 1000 times.
I still love it.
I love it.
Floors and all, I think Doctor 2 is imperfect and I feed off the
imperfections in this.
But the decisions that John Nathan Turner is making now at this
point. are not benefitting the show.
They benefitting him.
Yeah.
And that is that is the one criticism I will now have of him.
Yeah, except, you know, when he's working with Bid Meaden when
he's working with Kart Mall.
So there's something about the relationship between the 2 of
them.
That's the problem.
But now, but he's in this corner now where it's like, you know, all
those wanting to get out, he's...
If he does, the show's gone.
We could have had a story written by Ian Marta.
Called Volvoc.
I would totally have been up for that.
I think we should wrap this one up.
Yeah, definitely.
Okay.