WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:06:44

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast who's very often forced to come in

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through the side door.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm not the great healer.

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And we're finishing off season 22 with Revelation of the Daleks.

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Well, this is my story, and I'm gonna say something surprising.

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I think this is Eric Saywood's best script for the program.

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And I think the reason is that he has taken inspiration from 2

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good previous texts.

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When, say, would 1st write for the program, he did a sort of

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substandard ripoff of the Time Warrior with all of the fun bits

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taken out.

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Here, what he's doing is he's recreating last year's Caves of

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Andrazani, and you can see right from the 1st shot, where we're

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zooming into a photograph of a planet, and then the TARDIS

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immediately materialises on location, where we have a whole heap

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of different people with different interests, plotting against one

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another.

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There's a big sort of conflagration at the end.

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A lot of people are killed.

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It is very, very like caves of and Rosani.

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But, Cleverly, it takes inspiration from one of my favourite books

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which is the loved one by Evelyn Waugh.

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And when I 1st saw this, I had already read it because we actually

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did it at school when I was in year 9.

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And, you know, there's a lot of that book that I didn't understand

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at the time, but I've since reread it, and it's a really, really

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vicious satirical black comedy.

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I really, really recommend that everyone listening to this podcast

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read it.

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It's not very long and it's really, really funny.

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It's, uh, set in California. around a big kind of necropolis

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called Whispering Glades and it's a satire of sort of horrific

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American bad taste around death.

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It's unbelievably funny and vastly, vastly darker and nastier than

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anything that we've seen in season 22.

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But it is wonderful, and say what has chosen the right things to

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be inspired by here, and added to that, you've got Graham Harper

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who directed Andrazani last year.

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I don't think this is Colin Baker's best story or maybe it is.

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It's either his best or his 2nd best story for me, along with the

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2 doctors.

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I thought this was good.

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I think this is beautifully directed, superbly acted by 99% of the

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cast.

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I adore Colin and Nicola in this.

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I draw the fact that he's wearing a blue coat over the costume in

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episode one.

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And I can see why people regard this as the best of the era.

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I'm completely biased because I adore Attack of Assault so much

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and always love that.

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And I love the 2 doctors and I love Vintage Embarrass and I love

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this.

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And so that's 4 big hits for me this season.

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I also feel like I've had 4 big hits, so it's, for me, attack

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Baros, Mark of the Rani, and this, and even the last 2 stories.

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Aren't complete misses for me.

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There's still things I enjoy in them.

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So, handle my heart.

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I came into season 22.

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Expecting I would enjoy it.

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I've enjoyed it even more than I expected, I would.

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And I thought that our dear listeners have probably already

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noticed that something I do is I try and look for the good in

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almost every story.

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I didn't have to reach very far in most of these to find not just

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good moments, but a good thread through each story that I could

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follow.

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And I do think, even though I would say 2 doctors is the worst

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story for pacing issues and scripting issues which I mentioned.

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I think the hardest one that sort of hangs together with a

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cohesion is time lash.

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Getting back to your comment on 99% good performances.

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I take it the other one% is Jenny Thomasson.

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I think she's fantastic.

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Thank you.

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So do I. I don't know where this is coming from.

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She plays Tessanika to absolute perfection.

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She's supposed to be this fawning little thing and, you know

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frustrated and whatever.

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I think it's one of the most brilliant performances.

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And I've been wondering why people don't like her.

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And the only conclusion I can come to is, in Doctor Who, very

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often, you'll divide your characters into goodies and baddies and

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baddies will have certain qualities and goodies all have certain

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qualities.

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And ostensibly, she's not a baddie.

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And yet.

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She kills in the course of the story and she has some negative

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emotions, like there's there's a lot of jealousy and envy in her

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character and she's prone to very quick anger.

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And I think it's because her character is very hard to define and

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pin down that people may not be comfortable watching her because

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she's unpredictable.

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And there's so many good performances in this.

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She's the standout for me because as good as everyone else is, you

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can predict their actions.

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You can never quite predict what Tasambika's going to do.

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And I'm going to jump straight to her ending here.

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Of course, growing up watching the ABC version.

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When she stabs Jobel.

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It's incredibly cut down.

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You kind of see her arm go down and then suddenly she's running

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down a corridor.

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You don't see him collapse.

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You don't see that wonderful bit with the toupee falling off, which

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was the suggestion of wardrobe and makeup.

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They suggested it to Clive Swift, who suggested it to Graham

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Harper, and he's like, yes, that's brilliant.

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Let's do that on a crane, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And as someone who has been losing his hair since he was 18

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someone served it to me very early on when I was at uni, you know

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why don't you just get a toupee, it's like...

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What?

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Well, I said, look.

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I'm sure there are good toupees out there that are

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indistinguishable from the original, but one, they probably cost

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1000s of dollars.

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And two, Everyone who currently knows me knows I'm losing my

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hair.

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Anyone I then meet afterwards.

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I can never see them without the toupee.

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What is the, what is the point of a toupee?

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and the point is to highlight this character's vanity?

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I agree with you, Nathan.

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This is his best script.

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For once he nails characterisations and he gives us interesting

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characters that aren't just cyphers.

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And in each of his stories, he has managed to provide characters

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who aren't just cyphers, but also characters who are just

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cyphers.

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Yeah, well, think about his 1st story about the visitation, which

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essentially hangs the entire story on one guest star.

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And that's a reasonably good guest star, and it's a sort of Bob

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Holmes style, big, larger than live character.

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Whereas here you've got a whole heap of people, all of whom are

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quite well characterised.

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There are some wonderful people, like Kara, Eleanor Bronze, Kara

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is amazing, vogel is wonderful.

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Clive Swift is just phenomenal.

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The mutant.

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So John Gilgood.

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There was some story that they were going to offer the mutant to

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Sir John Gilgood.

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And to Sir Lawrence.

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I believe that wrong.

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I believe they even went as far as determining Lawrence's dates

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and he simply wasn't available.

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So they didn't actually get round to offering him the part, but

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they did say to him, look, it's a small part.

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You'd only be needed for 2 days because we understand you're very

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busy and he just wasn't available for the days.

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He wouldn't have gone on in that cup, though.

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Please, he wouldn't have like, no.

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No, he probably looked like that by 1984.

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Eleanor Brom as Kara and her offside of Ogle. are just so

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delicious.

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I just love the way she talks about, oh, the great healer and

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she's so sucky up and and their little, you know, just their

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relationship with each other and their little looks whenever

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they're dealing with people.

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I remember being in the playground and doing her whole, we did a

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whole death thing, like, you know, where she goes, it's a bomb

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great big bomb.

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I love that line.

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I adore it. like we would literally do.

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It's a bomb.

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It a great big bomb.

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You fool.

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Now we both die and then it's you before me.

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Well, I think her great moment is where she declares that she's

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going to have control of the food supply of the entire galaxy and

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she stands up and the music goes...

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That feels like a cliffhanger.

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It's not, but it feels like it should be.

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No, she's tremendous and you're right.

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The politeness with which she treats the great healer while she's

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sending an assassin to kill him, you know, is just tremendous.

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I think the one thread of the story that doesn't quite work is

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Natasha and Gregorian, I think the his character is too nasty. like

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he comes in with an actual hip flask dangling around his neck.

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And I do think that some of that stuff is a little bit too over

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the top.

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I think that's a kind of a misstep tonally.

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But everything else is terrific.

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We haven't mentioned Alexi Sales DJ who I think is lovely, just

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lovely.

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That's my .one%.

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You don't quite like that.

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I don't like him during when he's the DJ.

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Like a number of those characters.

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I kind of go, oh, please just get off my screen.

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When he drops the persona and is himself, he's beautiful.

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And I recognise the fact that to appreciate that, I've got to not

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appreciate the other.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So for me, that's the one thing that always jars when I watch

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this.

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But if you think about what Saywood's been doing, those endless

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stories of people shooting guns in corridors at each other, it's

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hard to imagine, Eric, say, we're putting something like the DJ

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in.

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And I think it's a real development.

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I think he's moved from just wanting to do stories about Space

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Marines to wanting to do something a little bit more interesting.

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And like maybe it doesn't all come off.

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And in fact, it's a little bit hard to know what the DJ's for.

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But do you think he's looking at what happened in Vincent and

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Paris, where you've got our 2 Google Box characters there and seen

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how that works and sort of, you know?

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Yeah, he's explicitly in front of a television screen, isn't he?

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And he switches channels, so he actually gets to see all of the

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different plots going on and he gets to narrate them to the

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audience.

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And there's a particular moment too, where, do you remember, we

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get that shot of the corridors and various people walking through

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the corridors and there's a black line that goes up the screen?

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And I can see that you don't think that's very successful.

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I think it's good for what it is.

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But what it is, is reminding us that this is television because it

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looks exactly like the black bars that used to go up the screen

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when the vertical hold would go off.

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Yeah, that's true.

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Yeah, no, no.

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This is where I'm coming from too.

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You thought it?

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I thought the very hold.

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And I actually thought it doesn't come off because if it was going

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up like that, you'd actually see the whole, the whole corridor, not

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part of it.

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Yeah, but it's not like the camera's going up along different

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floors of the building.

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But it's that's what I think it is.

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But I can see what you're saying.

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Yeah, so it's about it's about television.

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And so one of the big flaws in this era is, of course, that the

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doctor doesn't get involved until too late in the story.

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Here, I think, it almost works, and I don't know whether it's

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deliberate.

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You go to great lengths to set up this really complicated world

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and then you crash the doctor and the Daleks into it to smash the

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place up at the end.

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Well, of course, Colin and Nicola are off doing pantomime for John

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Nathan Turner, directed by Fiona Cumming.

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I think it might have been Cinderella.

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Thus, they were not available for certain recording blocks.

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00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:25.200
So they actually had to be written out of studio recordings so

250
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.019
they could only be on location during that 1st episode.

251
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.899
Because they're not in the studio at all in episode one. right.

252
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.840
And I've said before that Collins performance benefits from not

253
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:38.940
being in the studio and it's such a relief to have them in a real

254
00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:42.179
place interacting with each other for a period of time.

255
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.419
I know that's all really short on incident that stuff, but it's

256
00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:46.019
really entertaining.

257
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.299
What seems to be the problem?

258
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:49.980
The doctor says to that mutant?

259
00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:51.000
Maybe a taxi?

260
00:12:51.059 --> 00:12:54.179
It's a really clever line, of course, because it's what the doctor

261
00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:56.039
says when you see the doctor.

262
00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:57.960
Yeah, and say what has proved.

263
00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:01.080
He still can't write dialogue that's convincing, but he can

264
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.059
actually write good jokes, I think.

265
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:03.899
Yeah, yeah.

266
00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:07.320
And when they go up over that wall, you know, and you've broken it

267
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:08.039
and all that sort of thing.

268
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:11.519
Like, even as a kid, I kind of, like, like, he talking about

269
00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:12.960
talking about his penis in that scene.

270
00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:17.279
But the way in which both Colin and Nicola play it, I personally

271
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:17.940
think is perfect.

272
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.120
Like, you know, I really love that sequence.

273
00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:24.600
In fact, he does a little bit of petty revenge because his strands

274
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:25.259
are on the wall.

275
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.559
Yeah, yeah, get down herself very ungraceful.

276
00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:33.539
They are so charming together in that and, you know, I think as

277
00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:39.000
far back as Mark of the Rani, they mostly get the bickering

278
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:39.480
right.

279
00:13:39.539 --> 00:13:44.279
And I just think in Mark the Rani 2 doctors and time lash, there's

280
00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:47.340
just a little bit of moment of nastiness that reminds you that.

281
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.460
Oh, no, they haven't quite got it right yet.

282
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.299
Whereas here, I think the bickering and the back and forth is

283
00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:57.240
actually well balanced and you have that charming moment where she

284
00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.600
finds the plant and sort of shows it to him and he reacts like

285
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:01.379
it's harmful.

286
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:03.179
And she says, oh, is it dangerous?

287
00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.279
He's like, oh, not really.

288
00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:09.600
And it's just a nice cute little joke between them when the

289
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.840
mutant's dying and the way the doctor comforts the mute, like...

290
00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:14.159
Yeah, he's holding the mutant's hand.

291
00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:16.620
Yeah, because the mutant says, would you believe I once looked

292
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:17.039
like you?

293
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:20.519
So instead of a mutant saying, oh, you know, I miss looking like a

294
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.820
normal person, it's subtext and the doctor realises what this

295
00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:27.240
person really needs right now is someone to hold his hand and

296
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:31.980
Perry's reaction, like her horror at what she's done and the

297
00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:37.019
doctor's consoling of her, you know, it's not over the top and

298
00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:40.500
it's it's a situation of, you know, you had to make a split 2nd

299
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:43.559
decision to save our lives.

300
00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:48.480
You know, he understands that and he he didn't want to go on.

301
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.179
And it doesn't comfort Perry either.

302
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:52.200
I love her reaction to it.

303
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:55.860
And there's a wonderful shot in that sequence where Collins stands

304
00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:59.460
up into shot and he's clearly furious about the great healer.

305
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:00.179
Yeah.

306
00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:01.679
It's so well directed.

307
00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:02.639
It's so good.

308
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:03.299
Yeah.

309
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:07.440
There's not a single scene in the Tartars in this story.

310
00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:09.299
And that's such a relief.

311
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:14.220
I love it when she throws that nut roast roll, whatever it is into

312
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:15.720
the lake and everything.

313
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:17.279
Yeah, and that's just...

314
00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:18.539
And it's well directed too.

315
00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:20.159
Yeah, the direction is fantastic.

316
00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:23.519
But Colin and Nicola are really hitting their stride, you know.

317
00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:26.340
And, you know, even towards the end of the episode, you know, with

318
00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:30.600
the whole fake face falling down and I love that bit with the

319
00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.360
dalek behind her, which was done on location.

320
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:35.759
Like, that was, that was not on the original script. pulling the

321
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:36.720
Dalek along with a string.

322
00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.419
I love it when they meet Tess and Beaker and they sit down and

323
00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:40.320
they're having that conversation.

324
00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:42.480
There's just that look they give each other when she's going off

325
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.460
like this woman is completely insane.

326
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:45.419
I just love that moment.

327
00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:46.919
I always just...

328
00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.940
And there's a great bit with Tasambika that was cut just for time

329
00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:54.179
where after the doctor says, no, no, you don't understand.

330
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:55.799
I'm not interested in getting buried.

331
00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:58.019
I'm interested in why there's this statue of me.

332
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.620
Tezembika's scripted to get really angry that I've gone through

333
00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.440
the whole sales pitch and you weren't even listening.

334
00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:07.799
How dare you not listen to our services?

335
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.539
She does yell at the doctor.

336
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:13.500
Yes, when he asks her about Joe Bell and she says, what business

337
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:14.580
is it of yours?

338
00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:17.039
And Collins's reaction there is priceless as well.

339
00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:21.779
What I find so sweet about Perry in this story is she finally

340
00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:26.399
meets a man who doesn't want to impregnate her or eat her or

341
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.240
modify her body and is just utterly charmed that she can tell him

342
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.779
about the culture he's so interested in, like her scenes with the

343
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:37.919
DJ and her reaction to his death, which we only get with audio

344
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:38.460
really.

345
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.360
And then the doctor hears that and that affects him.

346
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:46.559
It's a wonderful touch that we don't, we don't see her screaming

347
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.399
at the Daleks.

348
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.759
We see the doctor's reaction to the possibility that Perry's

349
00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:50.879
dead.

350
00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.299
I think it's a good choice too, because we do like Alexi Sales

351
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:58.139
character by that and seeing him die or it'd be unpleasant.

352
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.799
And I think that scene where we hear the audio of it's really

353
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:02.279
effective.

354
00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:07.559
And I'm a huge fan of Alexi Sale destroying 2 Daleks with a beam

355
00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:09.000
of concentrated rock and roll.

356
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:10.079
That's so Doctor Who.

357
00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:10.920
It's very good.

358
00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:12.480
In a way that we haven't had.

359
00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:14.579
Can you imagine Dr. Styles?

360
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:17.940
with a beam of concentrated rock and roll?

361
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:18.720
It's hard to imagine.

362
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.140
Davros, the great healer.

363
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:27.299
I think that he is extremely good.

364
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:31.799
I think that this is his best performance as Stavros.

365
00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:36.119
I think that having him in that tube, and there's something

366
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:41.039
amazing about how quickly he can turn around in the head turning

367
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:41.220
around.

368
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.859
Like, I mean, obviously in the last story, we saw that gunk coming

369
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:45.839
out of him and the spaceship was going to explode.

370
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:50.640
So, you know, I was fooled as a kid thinking, somehow, it got away

371
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.339
but because of all that stuff, it's just the head.

372
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:59.940
To get himself around on that, he had these sort of 4 bars at the

373
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.460
compass point so he could grab the bars and sort of twist his body

374
00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:04.440
around underneath it, Terry Malloy.

375
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:09.299
But the problem was, there were also these girders at knee level.

376
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.880
So the 1st time he did it he almost broke his knees.

377
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:17.460
So on the swivel chair, he is kneeling with his legs tucked and

378
00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:18.720
tied under himself.

379
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.539
So, you know, he couldn't stay in there for a long period of time

380
00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:24.000
because otherwise he would block off blood supply to his feet.

381
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:27.480
But yeah, he gets amazing speed on that.

382
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.440
And it's so effective and it does convince you that he is just

383
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.279
ahead in a jar.

384
00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:37.619
You know, we're in Futurama now, head of Nixon and headless body

385
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:39.359
of Agnew kind of territory.

386
00:18:39.420 --> 00:18:41.640
I love all of his scenes with Chess and Baker.

387
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.220
Yeah, that seduction scene is really amazing.

388
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:48.660
And he does the quiet thing that Michael Wisher used to do.

389
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.740
He does it so well.

390
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:51.660
Like he gets to rant.

391
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.119
He gets to be quiet, all of that stuff.

392
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:58.740
Even when he 1st talks about Tess and Baker and says, what a

393
00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:00.660
pleasing personality shit.

394
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:04.440
It's, it's, it's really effective.

395
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:06.599
That's a great bit of episode two, I think.

396
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:09.839
The surprising thing is you know how we do notes for this.

397
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:13.140
I've got, like, too busy watching it.

398
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.180
Yeah, there's very few rates.

399
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:16.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

400
00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:20.279
It's bizarre because this has a lot of the things we've criticised

401
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.940
other stories for, namely the Dr. and Perry taking ages to get

402
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:24.779
involved in the story.

403
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.460
But it's so strange because they have a warmer relationship and

404
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:30.660
they're more fun to watch.

405
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.700
It doesn't bother you so much.

406
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.539
In fact, the whole situation is resolved by Tarkas and Lilt

407
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:39.779
calling for the other Daleks. to arrive.

408
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.220
And really the doctor doesn't do anything very much materially and

409
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:47.700
then Orsini, you know, blows up the thing.

410
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:49.859
Orseni and Boston.

411
00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:52.259
Another great double act.

412
00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:57.240
I love the way the 6 doctor attacks him and then comments only I

413
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.119
could do such a thing, attack a grand knight at the odour of

414
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:01.140
Auberon or whatever it is.

415
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.440
And not only that, I saw something new in Collins performance I

416
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:08.160
hadn't seen before, when he attacks Orsini, as Orsini's sort of

417
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.920
bringing his arm back up, there's this look on the doctor's face

418
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:12.900
of, I have made a terrible mistake.

419
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:18.960
The idea that Boston stinks, you know, and does nothing about his

420
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.920
personal dieting. is just a really fun idea.

421
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:23.759
It doesn't matter.

422
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.740
It's just a little bit of character colour.

423
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.859
And the 2 of them are really terrific together.

424
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:35.160
And, You know, Orsini is sort of pompous and self-important and a

425
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:39.660
bit ridiculous and gets given a noble death and I think that's

426
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:40.680
really terrific.

427
00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:43.859
I don't know that there's a dud character in this.

428
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.839
Orcini, of course, is played by William Gaunt, who has a long

429
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.119
career and I believe is still acting.

430
00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:54.720
Most famous, possibly to you, dear listener, as one of the leads

431
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.160
of the champions.

432
00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:57.900
Les Champignon.

433
00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:59.099
Les Champignon. right.

434
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.960
And the inspiration for his character actually came from Colin

435
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:04.440
Baker.

436
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:09.119
And this is part 2 of a story I was telling last week because when

437
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.000
Eric Saywood found out Colin Baker was going to be the doctor

438
00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:12.839
didn't know much about him.

439
00:21:13.019 --> 00:21:19.500
So he got a copy of City at the end of the world, the Blake 7

440
00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:23.339
episode where Colin was the assassin, Babe and the Butcher, and he

441
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:25.740
watched it with increasing horror, thinking he's not going to play

442
00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:27.180
the doctor like that, is he?

443
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:31.380
And actually went up to Colin and kind of said, oh, I've seen you

444
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:32.880
in your Blake 7 episode, you did.

445
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:38.759
Um, Were you taking the Mick with your performance a bit there?

446
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:41.400
And Con's like, well, how would you have played it?

447
00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:44.099
I, you know, I played it unstable, so you never know what this

448
00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:46.319
character's going to do, and Eric said, well, personally, I would

449
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.779
have played it straight down the line and terrified everyone, and

450
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:50.579
Colin's response was, well, that's your opinion.

451
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:52.799
That was his conception of Orsini.

452
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:54.839
He's like, well, I've said to Colin this is what I would do.

453
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:56.400
There's no point in saying something.

454
00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:57.720
I'm not going to back it up with that.

455
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:02.700
So I'm going to write this assassin character who's not shouting

456
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:03.180
at people.

457
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:06.900
He just, he always keeps a very level, calm voice except when he's

458
00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:07.380
in battle.

459
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.420
And I think it's really effective.

460
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:12.960
He's a charming character who you like, but you kind of left with

461
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.940
the impression that, yeah, he could mess you up.

462
00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:20.759
He does kind of come off as a bit of a pompous diluted idiot

463
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:21.000
though.

464
00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:22.259
And I like that.

465
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.440
Like, I don't know whether that's intentional or not, but all of

466
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.980
his stuff about mortality and his stupid leg and that ridiculous

467
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:32.519
gun that doesn't work properly and all of that sort of thing.

468
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.440
He's a little bit silly.

469
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:39.240
And maybe that's why it's so shocking and so fabulously effective

470
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:43.799
when he pulls out that knife and stabs Eleanor Brock at the end so

471
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:45.720
quickly, like he turns on a dime.

472
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.839
And suddenly we see for the 1st time him actually being genuinely

473
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:49.259
deadly.

474
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.519
I love a few other aspects as a fanboy.

475
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:55.740
I love the different Daleks.

476
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:57.539
I actually think those Daleks.

477
00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.339
And remember, this is the 1st time we've seen them.

478
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:04.920
I mean, we will see them later on in a couple of years time, and

479
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:08.039
they do look slightly better in that story, but they look

480
00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:12.059
fabulously deco, and they fit in wonderfully with the decor of

481
00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:13.200
tranquil repose.

482
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:14.460
I think they're terrific.

483
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:18.059
I actually love the gruesomeness and horror of the glass dalek as

484
00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:18.180
well.

485
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.680
Yeah, I think it really works.

486
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.819
So this is this is kind of the kill me virus scene, isn't it?

487
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.180
It's almost as if, you know, we were aware that we weren't allowed

488
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:31.259
to do that in arc in space and so we try and do it again.

489
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:34.319
And I think that is really good.

490
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:38.460
It's a great performance and the perspex dalek looks amazing.

491
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:40.680
Like it really looks extraordinary.

492
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.039
They were going to do a flying dalek on location, actually.

493
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:46.980
The one that Orsini blows up was going to be flying.

494
00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:48.059
Yeah, but they couldn't.

495
00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:49.380
I think it was actually wind.

496
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.400
They had the they had the equipment on set, but on the DVD, you'll

497
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:57.299
notice as part of the making of, they have, um, the film trims of

498
00:23:57.299 --> 00:24:00.059
that scene where they blow up the Dalek and immediately the smoke

499
00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:01.019
just blows over the camera.

500
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:01.740
Right.

501
00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:04.200
So because of the wind, they couldn't really do the flying dial.

502
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:05.579
Like, it had to be a lightweight prop.

503
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.819
And if you had the wind, it would just be blowing in the wind like

504
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:09.480
wind chimes.

505
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:11.819
So they just decided to make it static.

506
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.920
I think it worked. a huge explosion.

507
00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:14.819
I think it's.

508
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.799
All the location stuff is terrific.

509
00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:19.079
They're like the IBM building.

510
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:20.220
Yeah, yeah, it's great.

511
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:20.819
Yeah.

512
00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:23.220
And we do get a levitating down Ross.

513
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:24.539
I think that quite works for me.

514
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.599
It's a bit too kind of video affecting that shot.

515
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:31.859
There's too many video effects because you've got his beams, you've

516
00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:34.619
got something coming out of the bottom of Davros's chair.

517
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.240
You've got the removal of William Gaunt's artificial leg, you know

518
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.299
and so there's just, it's just a little bit too ambitious.

519
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.880
It's beyond what they can actually convincingly pull off.

520
00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:48.420
It's something I quite like and I don't know if you're going to

521
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:48.779
like it.

522
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:53.759
Deveros's hand gets blown off and then goes to shake it.

523
00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:57.960
See, that's my dark sense of humour and I actually like...

524
00:24:58.019 --> 00:25:01.500
And I just, I just burst out laughing.

525
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.779
He does an armless pun too.

526
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.240
No arm in trying.

527
00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:06.960
No, I'm in trying.

528
00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:09.119
I mean, it's just my pathetic.

529
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.220
I thought all we could have done without the fingers on the floor

530
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:12.000
to be honest.

531
00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:15.359
Okay, but I'm just saying like just going for that and I just love

532
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:15.539
it.

533
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.680
To top it all off, the action figure comes with a changeable

534
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:20.099
hand.

535
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:23.400
So you can have Davros's hand in there or you can have the stumpy

536
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:24.539
green bandage.

537
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:29.099
You know, the funny thing is that when Russell brings Davros back

538
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:33.359
he obviously wants to bring classic Davros from Genesis of the

539
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:34.140
Daleks back.

540
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.980
And so he gives him a robotic hand, with big long fingernails, just

541
00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:42.119
like that Rosso's hand, because if you've only got one hand, it's

542
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.039
really hard to trim your fingernails.

543
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:47.819
And so that sort of works terribly well.

544
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.819
The next time we see Davros, we don't see his arms at all because

545
00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:53.099
he's in that sort of airball thing.

546
00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:53.700
Spoiler it.

547
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.980
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

548
00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:01.799
Clearly, this story is kind of important enough for it to be

549
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.500
referenced the next time we see the Daleks and then to be

550
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.819
referenced finally when Davros gets brought back in the new show.

551
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:14.640
And not much of the Colin Baker era kind of survives in fan memory

552
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.519
in the sense that it doesn't get referenced very much in

553
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.480
subsequent stories.

554
00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:21.480
Yeah, I think the only other element that's really been referred

555
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.259
to in the new series is some, The Valley Yard. was briefly

556
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:27.359
referred to by the great intelligence department.

557
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:27.839
It's about it.

558
00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:30.299
So ratings for this story.

559
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:35.099
7.400000 for the 1st episode, 7.7.

560
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:40.980
And in terms of chart placing, they were 2 of the top ones of the

561
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:41.400
season.

562
00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:47.460
So 65th and then 58th for the final episode of the year, which, you

563
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:51.240
know, those chart placings compared to over the last 3 years are

564
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:52.380
up there with the best of them.

565
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.039
And in fact, that's Collins's highest placed episode at 58.

566
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:58.259
And is that the Daleks, do you think?

567
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.319
It's a combination of the announcement of the cancellation and the

568
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:02.880
fact that Daleks are in it this week.

569
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:05.339
Well, that's the last episode of the season.

570
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:07.019
So, yes, I think it's the cancellation.

571
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.799
It's the Daleks. people even liking the previous episode.

572
00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:11.400
Who knows?

573
00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:15.359
Of course, by this point, I think it took less than a week for the

574
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.180
BBC to backtrack and say, oh, no, we're just resting the series

575
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:22.799
for 18 months, which, you know, is unheard of these days, having

576
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:24.480
to weigh 18 months for a new season.

577
00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:25.319
Outrage.

578
00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:29.220
I do have to wonder if them noticing the ratings picked up also

579
00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:33.180
helped the show a little bit, but then, okay, getting ahead of

580
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:36.059
ourselves here, but next year the budget's going to be slashed, the

581
00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:38.579
episode count is going to be slashed, and there's going to be

582
00:27:38.579 --> 00:27:41.880
slashed, and there's going to be a lot of other bad decisions

583
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:42.779
going on.

584
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:47.099
Um, Yeah, you know, I think even if the story had gotten 100

585
00:27:47.099 --> 00:27:49.680
million, the writing was on the wall and we were going to be

586
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:54.299
moving to 14, 25 minute episodes, even if the series came back.

587
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.599
No, the series, unless you're a soap is doing that in Britain.

588
00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:59.819
It's because it's a weird hangover.

589
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:00.779
Yeah, it is.

590
00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:03.539
We never sat down and thought, what are we doing here?

591
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.420
And, you know, one of the things a new series got right.

592
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.859
And I remember at the time thinking, like being a bit anxious

593
00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:14.579
about it, because it didn't seem like Doctor Who, but the one

594
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:18.000
thing the new series got right was, if it's going to be 45 minute

595
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.140
episodes, and if we can afford it, they should really be self

596
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:22.740
contained stories.

597
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:26.279
It's not that great to have a show where you tune in and you only

598
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:28.380
get to see half or a quarter of a story.

599
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:31.859
But I mean, if you look at original who and the pacing.

600
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:35.220
I think a lot of time you can get 3 episodes into that 45

601
00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:35.579
minutes.

602
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:39.960
Yeah, because if you consider it, especially with Russell T

603
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:40.380
Davies.

604
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:45.420
The incident that happens in part one of a classic Doctor Who 4

605
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:49.380
parter is the incident that happens in the pre-title sequence of a

606
00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:51.059
Russell T. Davies era, Doctor Who.

607
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:54.000
And quite often in the Stephen Moffat doctor, he loves condensed

608
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.160
storytelling in his opening teasers.

609
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:58.079
And then you've got episodes.

610
00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:02.519
Really, religious episodes 2 and 4 because classically speaking, 3

611
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.839
is padding, runaround, escape, think we've won, and then, oh, but

612
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:10.140
Terminus is going to destroy the universe unless we get a giant

613
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:12.960
dog robot thing to move this lever.

614
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.240
And that's how television is. changed.

615
00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:18.359
You know, time lash could have been like a dream sequence.

616
00:29:18.420 --> 00:29:20.819
Doctors knocked out a few flashes, boom, boom, boom.

617
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:21.299
That's it.

618
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:22.380
That's just reminded me.

619
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.579
There were these 2 rumours for Davidson's last season.

620
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:31.319
The 1st one was that Malcolm Hulk's, The Hidden Planet, which was

621
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.980
an unmade Hartnell story, had in fact been partially filmed and

622
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:38.519
they were going to film linking material with Davison to make it

623
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:39.299
into a new story.

624
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:40.619
That was an April fool's thing.

625
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:45.900
But the other rumour was, and people associated this with Frontios

626
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:48.299
for some reason, that there was going to be a story where the 5th

627
00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:51.960
doctor would hit his head and remember a 1st doctor adventure and

628
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.900
they were going to make it with Richard Herndle and Carol Anne

629
00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:55.440
Ford.

630
00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:58.500
And there's no indication that the production team ever actually

631
00:29:58.500 --> 00:29:59.099
thought of this.

632
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.799
And of course, famously Richard Herndle died before he got paid

633
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:06.420
for the 5 doctors, but yeah, sorry, Todd, you just reminded me of

634
00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:08.700
that. never heard of this before in my life.

635
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:14.880
Do you know, it reminds me of Richard's idea of a whole season of

636
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:20.940
story starring the doctor, Ian, Barbara and Susan with the cast of

637
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:22.559
an adventure in space and time.

638
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.420
What, refilming classic?

639
00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:25.859
No, no, just new ones.

640
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.119
Yeah, it would have been awesome.

641
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:27.660
Yeah.

642
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.720
Although I think he did also suggest a telemovie of Marco Polo

643
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:31.799
because, hey, why not?

644
00:30:31.859 --> 00:30:32.759
Because that's brilliant.

645
00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:33.599
That'd be great.

646
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:38.339
Um, we haven't mentioned um, very much. uh, the gay couple in this

647
00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:38.759
story.

648
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.019
Tarkas and Lt. I actually think they're a little bit too horrible

649
00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:44.039
in one of their scenes.

650
00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:45.119
There's that scene.

651
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:46.200
It is weird, yeah.

652
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:50.700
So I already mentioned that I'm not a big fan maybe of Grigory, but

653
00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:55.259
when Natasha and Grigory are chained to the wall, like Tarkas and

654
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:58.859
Lilt, you know, shove gun butts in their in their stomachs and

655
00:30:58.859 --> 00:31:02.460
they make Gregory drunk and they threaten to cut Natasha's face.

656
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.099
And I think that that is taking it a bit too far.

657
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:10.559
I think that's that's probably just unnecessarily nasty. a little

658
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:11.099
bit too nasty.

659
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.220
Especially seeing as most of the time they're, they're not comedy

660
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:16.859
characters, but they are comic characters and they have a sense of

661
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:19.680
humour and they teased Hazenbika together and not that I'm saying

662
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:23.220
that's necessarily a nice thing, but it's not holding a knife up

663
00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:25.619
to someone's eyeball and saying let me mark her.

664
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.519
Yeah, yeah.

665
00:31:26.579 --> 00:31:27.720
And they survive at the end.

666
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:31.200
They're the people who actually survive to rebuild Necros.

667
00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:33.359
So they're not in any way punished for that.

668
00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:36.779
And I think that there's an attempt again to recreate K's of

669
00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:39.059
Andrazani by having no good characters.

670
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:44.759
Like no one is a good guy here, just as no one on Andrazani, major

671
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:46.259
or minor. were good guys either.

672
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:47.880
Only the DJ.

673
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:49.980
Yeah, the DJ's a good guy, isn't he?

674
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:51.299
Yeah, who gets horribly murdered.

675
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:54.000
Now, something I realised watching this, of course, because

676
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.279
there's a shot with all 3 of them together when they're

677
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:56.640
conspiring.

678
00:31:56.700 --> 00:32:01.200
This may be the classic doctor story with the most actors who've

679
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.279
returned in the new series.

680
00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:07.200
Because, um, Colin Spall, who plays lilt, was in the Age of Steel

681
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:08.220
and Rise of the Cyberman.

682
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:09.839
Also directed by Graham Harper.

683
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:13.740
Also directed by Graham Harper, Clive Swift, of course, is back in

684
00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:15.359
Voyage of the Damned.

685
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.960
And he's a famous miserable bastard, and we'll be linking to that

686
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:19.619
interview again.

687
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:20.819
Fabulous.

688
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:21.359
Is he?

689
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:24.299
There's this wonderful interview of him in Doctor Who magazine

690
00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:27.000
just for one page interview where, you know, he gets those

691
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.460
questions like, yeah, what's it like being in such a legendary

692
00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:30.240
program twice.

693
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:31.440
Oh, is it legendary?

694
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.359
Very dry.

695
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:35.039
He's really rude, actually.

696
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:36.299
It's kind of like I did this work.

697
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:36.960
I don't care.

698
00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:39.660
Why the hell are you still doing a magazine about this nonsense?

699
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.900
He's really, he's really horrible.

700
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.619
It's really funny.

701
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:44.400
Richard loves it.

702
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:46.859
There are some, including Richard, who've expressed the thought

703
00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:51.000
that he's actually sending up the whole interview process and that

704
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.920
the interviewer is in on it as well.

705
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:55.559
And you can read it either way and still enjoy it.

706
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:57.720
So they're 2 of the people.

707
00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:59.339
Harper, is that the other one?

708
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:00.119
No, no.

709
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.019
Tarkas.

710
00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:02.940
Tarkas, is he the bear one?

711
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:04.680
Yeah, yeah, he's the big bear.

712
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:07.079
He's Friar Tuck in Robot of Sherwood.

713
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:07.859
No.

714
00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:09.119
Yes.

715
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.039
Yeah, that's him.

716
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:13.319
That's crazy.

717
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.779
I've got a sea robot.

718
00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:16.500
I've got to watch it.

719
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:18.480
Like, is he really old in robot of Sherwood?

720
00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:20.400
He's aged surprisingly well.

721
00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:22.920
I think he's probably younger than he is.

722
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:23.940
Yes, I think you're right.

723
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:25.859
He must be only in his 20s.

724
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:26.279
Yeah.

725
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:26.700
Yeah.

726
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:30.359
I think Eric Saywood actually gets the balance of violence right

727
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:31.680
here for the 1st time.

728
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:34.259
You know, he's always said that thing about if you're going to

729
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:36.119
show violence, you have to show its consequences.

730
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:39.720
I agree, the interrogation of Natasha and Gregory.

731
00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:41.160
It's not quite right.

732
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:42.599
It needs to be pulled back a little.

733
00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:46.740
But, you know, considering we've got a story with Dalek Mutants

734
00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:50.700
begging to be shot, a hand being shot off, a woman being stabbed

735
00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:54.119
through the heart, a man being stabbed through the heart with a

736
00:33:54.119 --> 00:34:00.180
syringe, But it still doesn't feel like the violence is

737
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:00.660
excessive.

738
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:03.660
And it's not just that tiresome gun violence.

739
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.480
There's sort of fantasy violence and there's sort of.

740
00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:08.219
There's laser guns and stuff.

741
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:11.880
I just feel that having explored this season.

742
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:14.579
This is just for me and last season was a lot of gun violence.

743
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.400
This season it's more pointed and I don't know.

744
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.739
Violence is not necessarily the word I would use.

745
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:21.780
I think there's a lot of gruesome moments.

746
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:22.980
That's the thing I feel.

747
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.139
Well, it's very gruesome at times.

748
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:28.559
And I said last week that I liked Shockeye eating the rat.

749
00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:29.880
I think that's terribly funny.

750
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.519
So I'm not opposed to the gruesomeness.

751
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:37.500
I think fingers on the floor is something that I would prefer that

752
00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:38.519
they had decided not to do.

753
00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:43.260
Yeah, I think that what I objected to in the violence isn't just

754
00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:47.039
the violence, but the kind of, the way it's just monochromatic

755
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.619
it's just people with guns shooting each other, resurrection of

756
00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:53.039
the Daleks devalues the Daleks because it just turns them into

757
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:54.420
people with guns shooting each other.

758
00:34:54.420 --> 00:34:58.679
Here, because it's more grotesque, it's a fantasy environment.

759
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:00.960
It isn't just endless guns.

760
00:35:01.019 --> 00:35:03.059
I object to the violence much less.

761
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:05.219
I think this is much more inventive and interesting.

762
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.880
Doctor Who's always been violent and has always contained death.

763
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:10.380
And that's not a problem.

764
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:14.639
And I also think protracted depictions of people suffering are a

765
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:16.800
problem and I think that the show shouldn't do that.

766
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:20.400
Yeah, here when people die, they get shot or they get stabbed and

767
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:20.940
they fall over dead.

768
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.719
You know, it's not, it's not lit in getting his hands crushed.

769
00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:27.539
It's not the guy reaching up out of the acid bath.

770
00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:32.340
One thing that confused me about the violence though, and this is

771
00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:34.079
just a bit of a frivolous point, really.

772
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:37.260
But it's like Natasha has this really sleek laser gun.

773
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:41.159
And everyone else has submachine guns and there's a bit where

774
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.760
Natasha and Grigory attack their 1st guard and kill their 1st

775
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:48.900
guard and they find the laser and the machine gun at them and that

776
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:50.039
alerts the Daleks.

777
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.340
It's like, maybe if you just find the laser, which just goes

778
00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:55.920
people might not have heard you.

779
00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:00.539
Why bring a bloody submachine gun to a stealth mission?

780
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:05.219
It's such a stealth mission, actually, that at the very beginning

781
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:10.440
where you get Mr. Joe Bell being introduced and talking to the

782
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.179
staff at Tranquil Repose.

783
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.900
That scene finishes and Natasha and Gregory walk through the same

784
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:20.159
shot with machine guns and nobody notices them.

785
00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:22.440
I think that's terrifically stylish.

786
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:25.679
I love all the blue palace that they all wear.

787
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:29.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and all that, which goes with the cold and the

788
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.000
snow and everything like that.

789
00:36:30.059 --> 00:36:33.300
It's beautifully designed and compared to last week, which was so

790
00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:33.780
boring.

791
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:34.800
This is so lovely.

792
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.920
And something I noticed this time around that I hadn't noticed

793
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:39.599
before, or rather than I thought was a mistake.

794
00:36:39.659 --> 00:36:42.900
There's that bit where Joe Bell's addressing his complete staff

795
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:46.079
and telling them, you know, don't speak unless you're spoken to

796
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.559
and treat the president's wife with respect, et cetera, et

797
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:49.920
cetera.

798
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.739
And I was watching it, this time going, oh, yeah, they haven't

799
00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.360
quite dyed the tunics the right colour.

800
00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:57.840
But then I realised it's different shades for male and female

801
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:58.559
stars.

802
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.639
And then I thought it was also different shades for the bandoleers

803
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:04.500
but the bandoleers are translucent plastic.

804
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.800
So they look like different colours when they're over the top of

805
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:07.980
that.

806
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.860
And I thought it could have been so easy to just have the same

807
00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:11.880
colour for everyone.

808
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:16.800
But either the designer pack Godfrey or Graham Harper's gone.

809
00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:18.599
No, we're gonna, we're gonna do it this way.

810
00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:23.159
The design of the um, Alec Linstead, Dalek Mutant.

811
00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:26.099
So it's Mr. Jellicoe inside that Dalek from Robot.

812
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.119
Yes.

813
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:27.900
What?

814
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:33.119
Oh my goodness. was done by Dorkan Radzik, the makeup designer

815
00:37:33.179 --> 00:37:36.360
sort of Graham Williams caper can't blanch, and she read the

816
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:39.059
script, and she thought, well, if this mutant's growing, and if

817
00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:41.340
you look if you look at it, she's like, I'm going to put the

818
00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:44.639
kidneys and the liver on the outside of the head.

819
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:48.420
Because there's blood filtration.

820
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:52.019
Best place for blood filtration is next to the brain because that

821
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:53.400
way the brain stays clear.

822
00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:55.440
It's like, what an amazing idea.

823
00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:58.920
There's an interview with her in one of the Doctor Who annuals

824
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.039
where she talks about the time she's assigned to Doctor Who and

825
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:04.559
she's like, it's so great because, you know, other shows you get

826
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:05.579
to do basic makeup.

827
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.440
Doctor Who, I'm designing monsters.

828
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:08.400
This is great.

829
00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:09.179
This is amazing.

830
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:15.000
Hugh Walters, who's Vogel, and had been Runcible, the fatuous in

831
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:16.380
Deadly Assassin.

832
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.599
Oh, my goodness.

833
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:19.860
I've made that link.

834
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.699
I didn't.

835
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.300
He put so much thought into his character.

836
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.639
Like on the making of he talks about it and he's like, you know

837
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:30.480
it's, I know it's not a big role, but with this role, I had to

838
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:31.920
decide who this person was.

839
00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:35.760
So, and then I had to be shot by a Dalek, and I had this death

840
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.699
scene, and it decided in the death scene, you know, I, I said to

841
00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:40.739
Graham, what's it like, oh, it's like being electrocuted.

842
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.360
So I threw my arms about and screamed.

843
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:45.000
But then just before I fall, he looks at Kara.

844
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:47.699
And as the viewer, you're like, is there something there?

845
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.659
Are they in love?

846
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:51.659
And then he falls on the ground and you're not in love?

847
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:52.260
He's gay.

848
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:54.480
She's a gay icon.

849
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.519
But it's just one little brief moment where he drinks in her

850
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.519
fabulosity for one last time before dying.

851
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:03.179
Correct.

852
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:04.019
Who wouldn't do that?

853
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.420
It's very sweet.

854
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.739
I love how in that scene, they're drinking a lovely cocktail with

855
00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:13.980
their arms linked around each other before the Daleks come in.

856
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:15.059
It's so incongruous.

857
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.659
It's wonderful And I mean, getting back to her, we discussed it

858
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:22.619
earlier, but I've gone through the full journey with Jenny Thomas

859
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:23.940
and as Tassen Baker.

860
00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:28.679
As a kid, I loved her, and then as a teenager, I read some fan

861
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.079
wisdom that she was terrible, and so for a few years, I thought

862
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:31.679
she was terrible.

863
00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:35.820
But the last couple of times I've watched it, I'm like, no, like

864
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:38.699
you are a complex character.

865
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.840
And it's it's kind of like, it's kind of like a high school drama

866
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:51.539
where you've got the geek who is transformed at the end to reveal

867
00:39:51.539 --> 00:39:55.980
her inner beauty, which makes her look like all the other outer

868
00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.420
beauty kind of people, you know?

869
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.219
But no, it's a subversion of that.

870
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:04.739
It's like just because she's not the quote unquote popular girl or

871
00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:05.340
cool girl.

872
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.880
She still has emotions and feelings.

873
00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:10.619
She still needs love.

874
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:14.280
She still needs affection and like all of us.

875
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:16.619
There are going to be times where she shows that love and

876
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:20.579
affection to the wrong people, but love makes her blind.

877
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:25.980
And then when she discovers that Joe Bell won't give her the time

878
00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:31.260
of day, but he's quite happy to flirt with other people, but won't

879
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:34.199
just give her a straight answer and kind of strings are along a

880
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:34.679
little.

881
00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:40.559
Even then, She tries to help him and then kind of says, you've got

882
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:41.099
to get away.

883
00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:46.139
And then when she kills him, she shows immediate remorse and is

884
00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:47.219
then horribly killed herself.

885
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.900
She's incredibly tragic character.

886
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:50.820
It's Shakespearean again, Nathan.

887
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.360
She, I mean, she gets killed because while she does kill him, she

888
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:57.900
does warn him about the great healer, and I think that that's why

889
00:40:57.900 --> 00:40:59.519
he has her killed.

890
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:03.239
I love all of his little, the gray healers like looking at him and

891
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:06.960
Clive Swift looking at the camera and, oh, no, you know.

892
00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:08.940
That's a brilliant piece of direction as well.

893
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:13.139
We never once see a camera in tranquil repose, but we know that

894
00:41:13.139 --> 00:41:17.099
there are cameras everywhere, not because anyone actually mentions

895
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:17.460
them.

896
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.420
But because from time to time, the characters will just regard the

897
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:25.019
pretend camera and Colin does one and he does a terrific

898
00:41:25.019 --> 00:41:25.440
reaction.

899
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:30.599
But Joe Bell is making sure that his best side is the camera.

900
00:41:30.659 --> 00:41:32.219
It's really well done.

901
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:35.280
Something else I absolutely love in terms of the cameras.

902
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:36.960
You know, we talked about earlier on.

903
00:41:37.019 --> 00:41:40.440
The DJ is kind of watching what's going on, but so's Davros.

904
00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:45.539
So for the 1st episode, control of the episode is being fought

905
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.360
over by the DJ and Davros.

906
00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:49.980
They're controlling what we see.

907
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:55.500
And it alternates between them and that you got that great bit

908
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:58.739
where Dapro says, suddenly everyone sees and knows too much.

909
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.860
Well, maybe if you weren't vision switching to everything, Davros.

910
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.139
It's such a clever conceit.

911
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:09.000
Made even cleverer by the fact that this is the 1st time I've

912
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.019
noticed that it's a storytelling conceit to get us from one

913
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:15.659
location to the other because a complaint about this story is

914
00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:16.920
there are so many characters.

915
00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:18.599
So you have 2 hubs.

916
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:20.460
You have Danveross and you have the DJ.

917
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:23.039
The DJ has minimal interaction with anyone.

918
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:24.539
He only interacts with Perry.

919
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:25.019
Yeah.

920
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:31.920
Davros interacts with Tasambika, Kara, Orsini, and the doctor

921
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:32.760
pretty much that's it.

922
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:39.480
So they're kind of apart from the plot, but they are then the

923
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:40.440
linking element.

924
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:41.340
We come back to them.

925
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:44.280
We see what their reaction is to what's going on and then we cut

926
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:46.800
to somewhere else at their bidding.

927
00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:50.880
Like the DJ goes, hey, we've got a lady approaching, you know, and

928
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:52.679
we'd go see what the doctor and Perry are doing.

929
00:42:52.739 --> 00:42:54.659
It actually helps.

930
00:42:55.619 --> 00:43:00.360
You make sure that you don't kind of get plot whiplash from going

931
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:03.659
from plot to plot to plot plot because you've got a moment to

932
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:05.519
breathe and go, okay, we were there.

933
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:08.519
This is what we're meant to think about that, and now we're going

934
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:08.639
here.

935
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:11.099
Now, of course, the ending is freeze frame.

936
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:14.400
Because the doctor was going to say, Blackpool.

937
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:17.159
I'll take you to Blackpool, but never gets to say the word

938
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:20.639
Blackpool, because that was going to be the next story, the 1st of

939
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:21.960
season 23.

940
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:27.179
I actually think it's very effective that it ends on a sort of

941
00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:27.719
cliffhanger.

942
00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:28.860
Where's he going to take her?

943
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:30.239
Yeah, who knows?

944
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:32.159
Okinos, Florana.

945
00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:35.519
But it comes back to this thing, the fact that there wasn't going

946
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.820
to be a cliffhanger, and it was just a given that they were going

947
00:43:38.820 --> 00:43:39.119
on.

948
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:41.400
Yeah, yeah, they just thought they were going on.

949
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:44.760
And of course, we'll discuss this more in our in our missing

950
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:46.440
season podcast.

951
00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:49.260
Yeah, so the 1st story was going to be the Nightmare Fair by

952
00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:52.980
Graham Williams with the Return of the Celestial Toy Maker at

953
00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:54.179
Blackpool Pier.

954
00:43:54.179 --> 00:43:57.900
It has been made by Big Finish now, and we'll be discussing the

955
00:43:57.900 --> 00:44:00.539
big finish recordings of the missing stories as well as talking

956
00:44:00.539 --> 00:44:02.340
about the missing stories themselves.

957
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.679
But yeah, there's a good 10 or 12 scripts that were in various

958
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:08.940
stages of development.

959
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:14.219
Like, A lot of the things we've criticised, John Nathan Turner and

960
00:44:14.219 --> 00:44:14.940
Eric Saywood 4.

961
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:17.340
For season 23, they were actually trying to address.

962
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.239
There was already going to be less violence, more humour.

963
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:26.940
They had, as I say, about 12 stories in various stages of

964
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:27.480
development.

965
00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:31.800
So if something fell through, it could be pulled, Eric Sayward

966
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:36.000
didn't want to do time lash, but John Nathan Turner was like, well

967
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:36.840
we don't have anything else.

968
00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:38.639
We're going to have to do it.

969
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.579
And no, you don't have the time or money to commission someone new

970
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:43.320
and you're working on your own script.

971
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:47.219
So they were trying to avoid that problem in future.

972
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:51.539
So it's so frustrating that really, while the ratings had dipped

973
00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:52.139
slightly.

974
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.739
It wasn't that bad that the show had to be cancelled, and they

975
00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:57.780
were already addressing the criticisms.

976
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:02.159
Which were the reasons they were given for being cancelled.

977
00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:04.079
And it was demonstrable.

978
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:06.300
They could have turned up at a meeting and said, look, these are

979
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:07.139
our new stories.

980
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.739
Their heads at the BBC, not Michael Gray, obviously, as controller

981
00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:14.280
but head of serials had read the Nightmare Fair and Mission to

982
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:18.179
Magnus and liked the scripts and commented on the improved amount

983
00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:18.599
of humour.

984
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:22.199
I don't think Mission to Magnus was actually at a script level at

985
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:25.800
that point because it was only commissioned 10 days before the

986
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.420
show was axed, right?

987
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:30.000
Nightmare fair existed, right?

988
00:45:30.059 --> 00:45:30.840
As a full script.

989
00:45:30.900 --> 00:45:34.500
And the others, we mentioned in a previous podcast, but mission to

990
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:39.599
magnus and the ultimate evil was still getting written or just

991
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:40.199
about to be written.

992
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.139
But that's the 1st time I've actually heard that sort of thing.

993
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.179
Colin has said, you know, they were going to make it a better

994
00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:47.280
relationship and maybe they were going to adjust certain things.

995
00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:50.699
But in my mind, it's still like if they'd received no criticism

996
00:45:50.699 --> 00:45:52.739
from their BBC and just said you're getting another series and

997
00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:54.900
we're going ahead, would Eric have taken it?

998
00:45:55.619 --> 00:46:00.300
As a fater complete that he can keep ongoing in this direction?

999
00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:01.260
That's right.

1000
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.820
But, in examination, this story, I think a lot of the so-called

1001
00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:08.880
issues, I think he's addressed, whether or not other writers have

1002
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.980
that ability to do so, I don't know.

1003
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:14.460
We at least know when it does come back after the hiatus, the

1004
00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:17.159
relationship between the doctor and Perry is completely

1005
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:17.699
addressed.

1006
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:18.420
Yeah.

1007
00:46:18.420 --> 00:46:18.780
Yeah.

1008
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:19.860
Or it gets one story.

1009
00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:22.980
Well, it's horribly wrong, but it is like in mysterious planet.

1010
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:23.820
They're good together.

1011
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:25.500
And I think here they're good together.

1012
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:28.320
And I think they're good together a lot earlier than here.

1013
00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:28.920
That's just me.

1014
00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:32.219
Time for our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative

1015
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:32.519
choice.

1016
00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:34.079
For me, it's.

1017
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:38.820
It's got to be Pennant Roberts.

1018
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.500
Because...

1019
00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:45.360
He chooses 3 really great cast members.

1020
00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:48.900
Like, I still think Paul Darrow, George Chandler, and Robert Ashby

1021
00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:51.960
give excellent performances in Time Lash.

1022
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:54.000
Also, Dean Hollingsworth is the Android.

1023
00:46:54.059 --> 00:46:54.960
I love the Android.

1024
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:55.860
I think that's really well done.

1025
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:00.239
And then the rest of the cast, he just kind of fills with pretty

1026
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:06.000
nondescript people who, there's even moments in episode 2 where

1027
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.619
you can't hear what cats is saying.

1028
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:09.780
You know, she's just kind of mumbling her way through.

1029
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:12.599
So yeah, my puzzling creative choice has to go to Pennant Roberts

1030
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:13.980
for his supporting cast.

1031
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:17.400
I just, I don't understand because he's usually done a pretty good

1032
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.539
job of casting up until now.

1033
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:24.480
I think my surprising creative choice is the heavy reliance on

1034
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:29.820
cannibalism as a story element. this season, 3 of the stories

1035
00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.940
feature some form of cannibalism.

1036
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:35.039
Oh, that's true. discuss that with Revelation.

1037
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.800
And also, Eric Saywood claims he's never seen Silent Green.

1038
00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:38.400
Right.

1039
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:38.880
Yeah.

1040
00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:43.679
Yeah, so in Revelation, they're mulching the bodies of the near

1041
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:47.579
dead in order to feed the galaxy, which is kind of fun. delicious.

1042
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:51.780
No, apparently it doesn't taste very good.

1043
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:53.820
They say it in dialogue. a little bit disappointing.

1044
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:55.440
It would have been great. is delicious.

1045
00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:56.340
Yeah, the concept is pretty good.

1046
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.059
We have shockeye, the corns and grig, of course.

1047
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.519
And then we have those 2 charming gentlemen in nappies on

1048
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:03.840
vengeance on Varos.

1049
00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:07.739
So that is a strange creative choice.

1050
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.840
And I guess, I guess it is, say, it's moved towards the grotesque

1051
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:16.500
which is not quite skilled enough to pull off without being

1052
00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:20.880
unnecessarily revolting, but which I do think eventually pays off

1053
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:21.599
in this story.

1054
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:22.980
So cannibals.

1055
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:26.699
Mine is the nappy men.

1056
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.619
I just don't understand why.

1057
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:34.440
They're hideous, aren't they?

1058
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:36.480
Right.

1059
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:38.579
Okay, pics of the week.

1060
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:42.179
I haven't plugged the new book for a couple of weeks hating to

1061
00:48:42.179 --> 00:48:43.260
love, so do buy that.

1062
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:47.699
But my actual pick of this season is totally tasteless.

1063
00:48:47.699 --> 00:48:49.860
The life of John Nathan Turner by Richard Marson.

1064
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:54.059
Now, this is essentially the same book as The Life and Scandalous

1065
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:57.659
Times of John Nathan Turner, the previous edition.

1066
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:02.579
This new edition includes entries from Richard Masters diary and

1067
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:08.219
emails he sent and received in response to the surprising and

1068
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.380
controversial content of the 1st edition.

1069
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:15.179
So this is only available in hardback because it has several

1070
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:21.360
sections of colour photos from the Nathan Turner and Downey estate

1071
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:22.440
as well as other sources.

1072
00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:25.920
I'm only about halfway through it at the moment, but it is a

1073
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:31.320
fascinating read, and it does offer a bit of an insight into the

1074
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:31.739
man.

1075
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.960
I'm not up to where he's working on Doctor Who yet.

1076
00:49:34.019 --> 00:49:36.840
So I'm hoping to talk a bit more about that next season.

1077
00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:38.820
But yeah, totally tasteless.

1078
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.519
The life of John Nathan Turner.

1079
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:44.400
I've already recommended the loved one by Evelyn Warr.

1080
00:49:44.460 --> 00:49:48.179
I think it's utterly brilliant and anyone who enjoyed this story, I

1081
00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:49.860
think, will enjoy that even more.

1082
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.280
It's really clever and horrifically nasty.

1083
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:57.900
The last sentence is one of the most appalling things that I've

1084
00:49:57.900 --> 00:49:59.940
ever read in a book anywhere.

1085
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.179
It's really funny and really, really deeply awful.

1086
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:06.360
So I think that you should all go out and buy that.

1087
00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:09.360
But I want to recommend just so that I can put it in the show

1088
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.219
notes because I forgot about it last week.

1089
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:15.480
There's a review of the DVD release of the 2 doctors, which is

1090
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:20.639
vastly more negative about the story than we were, but is really

1091
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:23.039
funny and really insightful.

1092
00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:27.059
And it's by Dr. Graham Nelson, who also wrote a terrific review

1093
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:32.460
for another online publication of the Blake 7 DVD release of

1094
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:33.719
series 3.

1095
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:38.760
But he's the inventor of a computer programming language called

1096
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:44.579
Inform, which allows you to write text adventures, he's a poet and

1097
00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:45.420
a mathematician.

1098
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.860
He's a very, very clever man who really shouldn't be slumming, uh

1099
00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:53.639
slumming it, writing reviews of Doctor Who, but his review of the

1100
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:58.019
2 doctors is is spectacularly good, and brutally negative, if you

1101
00:50:58.019 --> 00:51:01.980
thought that our love in about the 2 doctors was altogether too

1102
00:51:01.980 --> 00:51:02.639
complimentary.

1103
00:51:02.699 --> 00:51:04.019
It was rather surprising.

1104
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:06.480
You can make up for it by reading this review.

1105
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:12.059
It's really good Well, 1st of all, I'm not going to just go

1106
00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:13.079
straight to my pick of the week.

1107
00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:17.519
I do want to thank the team here. for inviting me onto the podcast

1108
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:23.579
because I was asked to do the Colin Baker era and Watching this

1109
00:51:23.579 --> 00:51:24.840
season again is reinforced.

1110
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:25.199
What?

1111
00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:29.099
I love him, and I love the 6th doctor, and I love adore this

1112
00:51:29.099 --> 00:51:29.340
season.

1113
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:35.099
I adore Tom's 1st season adore John's and this season is why he

1114
00:51:35.099 --> 00:51:36.000
became my favourite doctor.

1115
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:40.139
I just can't express my gratitude to you and to Colin.

1116
00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:43.380
Because I just adore him. throughout all of this.

1117
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:46.739
So my pick of the week goes like this.

1118
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:48.480
Ignore fan wisdom.

1119
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:51.179
Come back and watch season 22.

1120
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:52.139
That's my pick of the week.

1121
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:58.260
Ignore, Violence, arguments, pacing.

1122
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:03.360
Because I think, for me, we've discovered a whole lot more to

1123
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.420
Colin, to Nicola, and to other elements in this season, and maybe

1124
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:07.440
they didn't get it all right.

1125
00:52:07.500 --> 00:52:11.639
But Doctor Who is not perfect, and I love those imperfections, and

1126
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:13.619
I love what this season is delivered for me.

1127
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.019
Season 22 is my pick of the week.

1128
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:39.179
Well, dear listeners, we take off for an uncertain future, as, for

1129
00:52:39.179 --> 00:52:42.539
the next few weeks, we will be having a number of special episodes

1130
00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:46.980
including our long awaited commentary track on the enemy of the

1131
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:50.280
world, and you still have a little bit of time to vote on your

1132
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:53.699
John Pertwee story for commentary choice.

1133
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:58.619
Your choices are, Spearhead from Space, the Mutants, the 3 Doctors

1134
00:52:58.619 --> 00:53:00.059
and Death to the Daleks.

1135
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.539
Also, don't forget our upcoming Big Finnish special, for which you

1136
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:07.559
will probably want to listen to, Jubilee, the one doctor, Doctor

1137
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:11.460
Who, and the Pirates, and in a slight change, Richard has decided

1138
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:15.659
he would rather us look at the last adventure rather than

1139
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:16.739
crisscross.

1140
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:20.579
Now, uh, the last adventure is a box set of 4 stories, so we'll be

1141
00:53:20.579 --> 00:53:23.880
mainly focussing on the last story in that, the brink of death.

1142
00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:28.079
If you have already bought crisscross, I do apologise, I do hope

1143
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:28.739
you enjoy it.

1144
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.340
I certainly picked it up last week and it's still very good, but

1145
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:34.440
we'll be discussing the last adventure instead.

1146
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:37.139
All of which are available from bigfinish.com.

1147
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:40.199
You can keep up to date with everything related to flight through

1148
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:43.019
entirety on our website, flight through entirety.sexy, flight

1149
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:46.139
through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on

1150
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:46.500
Twitter.

1151
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:48.239
Over on Bondfinger.

1152
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:51.599
You can also find all of our Roger Moore, David Niven, George

1153
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.480
Lazenby, and Sean Connery, commentaries there as well.

1154
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:57.900
Until next time, may none of you feel consumer resistance from

1155
00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:59.039
eating your own relatives.

1156
00:53:59.099 --> 00:54:00.539
Thank you very much for listening good night.

1157
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:01.380
Good night.

1158
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:02.340
See you soon.

1159
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.300
That was Fight Through Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Bottomley

1160
00:54:12.300 --> 00:54:13.139
and Brendan Jones.

1161
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:15.300
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1162
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:18.840
This episode, famous miserable bastard, was recorded on February

1163
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:20.460
the 11th, 2017.

1164
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:23.099
The next episode will be released on March 12th.

1165
00:54:23.219 --> 00:54:27.480
If Davrox did make everyone a supreme Dalek, but that finally

1166
00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:30.000
answered the question of whether pineapple belongs at a pizza.

1167
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:36.539
How old's Olivia Coleman?

1168
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:38.519
She's in her 40s.

1169
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:41.519
So she's not too old to play the doctor.

1170
00:54:42.900 --> 00:54:46.260
I know these people are doing all this speculation online and

1171
00:54:46.260 --> 00:54:52.019
saying, no, no woman, no woman, but I reckon, to get headlines and

1172
00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:55.199
to get everybody back interested, they should, he should cast her

1173
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:56.699
at least for one season.

1174
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:58.920
She's so good She's so good.