Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety
the only Doctor Who commentary podcast coming to you live from a
bunker underneath Australia.
Hungary?
Where are we?
I don't know.
I am Brendan.
I'm Nathan I'm relieved.
I'm disappointed.
It's not the massacre.
But it is still a story about duplicates.
This is our long-awaited commentary on the enemy of the world.
Your code word in a moment is going to be swan dive.
So when I say that, press play on your copy, we're watching the
iTunes copy, but you can watch the DVD edition as well.
So are you ready?
Of course none of us could be asked to buy the DVD that we've all
mysteriously lost our copies, haven't we?
Yeah, isn't that isn't that ironic, right?
We all have... volcano somewhere in Australia.
Yeah.
I think the only one of us who knows where his DVD is is Todd, who
was already driving here by the time I realised I couldn't find
mine.
So without any further ado, dear listener, swan dive.
Oh, Doctor Who theme.
Isn't that, what, they're bringing Pierce Brosnan back at Dublin.
It does sound like a sort of modern bond. as the newborn.
Jane Bond.
No, no, it's Gillian Anderson.
So I'm relieved that for this podcast, I'm not sitting between
Richard and Nathan after the harassment that went down on the keys
of Mariners.
Your knees got a lot of attention, I seem to recall.
My knees, my ears, my, you know, whatever my comments.
My everything. episode one.
David Whittaker. memory of that commentary at all. don't know
why.
Climate change, this is what Australian beaches look like.
No memory of the earth.
Yeah, now, this, of course, is one of 2 stories that was recovered
from Zambia, I think.
Or Nigeria, by Philip Morris.
And I just remember, uh, this came out, I think it was October
because Todd, you bought me an iTunes gift card for my birthday to
buy these.
And I just remember getting chills watching them step out of the
Tartars.
Now this sequence here.
The doctor is just scripted to take off his boots and paddle and
Pat said to Barry Letts, they've worked together before.
Oh, you know, wouldn't it be fun if I just stripped off to my long
jobs and dove right in?
It's so lovely.
Look at him.
He gets to do physical comedy and...
He's so joyous.
And, uh, Matt Smith.
He reminds me of Matt Smith, the joy that he brings when he's the
doctor, just that look he gets on the face.
Look, there it is now.
Like, you know, and he's, oh, yeah.
I like to think, oh, isn't it great?
The very the very 1st Barry Letts thing is actually that he
directs or associated with the program is it does have a hover
craft in it.
It ran over Terry Walsh.
That would be fantastic.
Well, skin type, fleshy coloured...
What's he doing?
He's insane.
Roll necks with slightly...
And pervy men on the beach.
They're checking out.
I think they're looking at Jamie.
Yeah.
Well, those legs.
No, I think they're definitely checking out.
Actually, you know what?
What, don't say it?
He's he's no slouch.
There is a photo of him topless, hugging Fraser on location in
abominable snowman and you go, oh, hello.
Then you realise who it is and then you realise you have to go and
stop yourself right now.
It's like, it's like you suddenly go, oh, okay.
So suddenly Christopher Eccleston isn't the 1st doctor I had
sexual feelings for.
It's like, no, that's the 3 musketeers.
Could you imagine Billy doing that?
And he's married.
Pete showing how she got the part?
It was a Malaysia Zoom.
She almost turned it down because in the original script, she
disappears after episode 4 and she said, no, it's such a glorious
part.
I'm not just disappearing and Barry Let's rewrote the last 2
episodes.
So he could secure her. type girl, didn't we?
She was.
They make Victoria such a damsel in distress in this season that
they have these alternative female strong characters in a run of
stories and of course she's one of them.
And the marvellous one next story as well.
It's not very fair. the weather fair?
Yeah, is it Anne Travers?
Yeah, yeah.
It's not very fair to Victoria at all to the Debbie, is it
really?
Well, I mean, it is what it is, you know?
I mean, do you think she would have been able to?
Yeah, maybe the character wouldn't have been able to address it.
But the way the character's written.
Yeah, yeah.
Because when when Debbie gets gutsy stuff to do, like the stuff
with the gun in tube and there's a scene in this where she's
really gutsy, she's actually really good, they just write her as a
damsel.
I think it comes back to what you were talking about, Richard.
They were trying to sell it to the US.
So it's like when they watered down the character of MRP or for
the colour season of the Avengers. you know, it's like that's what
women do on US television.
Apparently.
Well, his long joins must be self-drying.
Special Gallifreyan technology.
That's why those foam covered car seats are all worn out by the
time Eccles got them.
I mean, you know, all those damp patches.
This hovercraft...
Like a sea monster doctor. put it away It did run over its owner.
One of the actors ran over the owner and I think broke his angle.
Given them the idea for pertweed to run over Barry Letts, that
one.
Barry was up for it.
Do you think he was like, that's his thing.
I just think it's incredible that, you know, 18 months ago.
Like Doctor Who was like on location, it was like a big thing to
be on location and they were still, you know, with the smugglers
was a big location shoot, like the 1st big one and now we're at
this where we've got hovercrafts and we're going to have other
things at a moment at seaside.
It's, you know, it's just technology and filming techniques and
how far it's come like within 2 years, isn't it?
It was such a surprise to see it too, when it came.
There's so much sort of length-ish location.
There was going to be more.
Martin Leesmore, who was the production assistant. wasn't he the
JNT all the time, but he had to simplify it, Todd, isn't it
right?
There was going to be more...
Twice scattered through the the 6 episodes.
It would have been great, but it makes this 1st episode really
just stand out as something that money's thrown at.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And really, you can't the rest of the season.
You know, this just nails it and supports it, doesn't it?
Well, we'd said at the time, I think, when we were doing our
regular run of episodes at this, well, I might have mentioned that
I find this season rather time. despite it's um it's incredible
reputation.
Have you got your bingo cards?
But I think this is probably the best story of the season and
maybe the best trail.
Yeah, it, I think there was a consensus.
Obviously not everyone, but a strong consensus, when these 2
stories came back, this and the web of fear.
People kind of went, wow, who knew this was the good one?
Yeah, yeah. was the other thing, wasn't it?
Everyone expected the web of fear to be the best one.
Not me.
No, this has always been a dark horse, and I think the fact that
it is so different from everything else that stands out, but it's
even better than what you...
He didn't say Brigadoon.
Okay, the subtitles, dear listener.
Say Brigadude.
He says Crigantur.
You changed it.
Oh, God.
Sorry, which is... sorry.
Yeah, like, I mean, here we go.
Like having a chopper.
A chopper in this, you know?
And Deborah's on record for saying this was absolutely
terrifying.
Yeah of course.
Who was terrifying?
Deborah. going up in this thing.
That's it.
No, they just, she just never knew whether her trousers or her
skirt had been loosened, you know, before she got up.
I love how she's...
She's cosplaying as Jamie the story.
Yeah, yeah, she is.
Yes.
This doesn't actually make very much sense, does it?
I actually don't really understand what's going on here because
they're her goons, aren't they?
that are pursuing, like these people are on the same side as
Mary.
Yeah, yeah, but true.
But she's a triple...
Look at that shot.
I mean, a year ago we would not have even had that.
And they almost crashed the chopper because...
Oh, Lord, because the pilot went up with the camera operator, but
the camera operator didn't say, I'm going to lean out.
So, like, they got about 20 feet off the ground and came down very
quickly.
So Barry Letts was on the other side leaning out the other side of
the chopper to balance the weight.
Wow, what a trooper.
And this is how we know it's set in 2017 or 2018 is.
Oh my goodness.
I never seen that before.
And no one knew.
Friend of the podcast, Dallas Jones was incredibly excited about
that.
Like, the episode had been up on iTunes for an hour and he posted
a screen grab saying, now we know when it's set.
And it was that exciting too. only a year away.
It's actually right now.
It set right now.
Okay, as we sit on this couch and speak.
This stuff's happening in Cape Arrow just a few 1000 kilometres
west of us.
The only thing that got wrong is despite very loud orange people.
It's not Mexico causing the problem.
Yes.
Do you think salamander is busy building a wall to keep the
Americans out?
at this point?
Titan comics who have the rights for Doctor Who comics now.
They've done a limited 5 issue pertwi comic, and in the 4th and
5th issues.
It reveals the villain is salamander.
He survives the end of this story.
Spoiler alert.
Well, but it's up on galafropase.
And really, you should have bought it by now, dear listener.
I haven't.
It's Cornell, isn't it?
It's so much fun.
Yeah, it's it's so it's really good.
But yeah, it's salamander at the mast.
I'm so pleased that they can numb overload helicopter.
I do love Jamie and Victoria's reactions.
Because, you know, Jamie's sitting a lot of stuff, but still, I
want to see Mary zip up her helmet, which would completely cover
her nose and mouth. used to have a hoodie like that.
Yes, it's amazing that Victoria and Jamie are coping so well with
this being both out of time.
Yeah.
But I mean, budget.
They are very thinly characterised though, aren't they?
At this point.
It's Gillian and John, really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It really is.
And I don't know for sure, but this may be the same chopper they
end up using for a fury from the deep.
But in Fury from the Deep, it's just a bit stupid, as I remember
saying at the time.
Make a zipper helmet off so she can't breathe.
Who stupid?
Who directed the invasion?
we know?
Dr. Campfield?
Oh of course he did.
Oh, hello.
And my dear.
Where's the kitchen?
She's like an oven basting chook, isn't she?
It's got the same layer of elf oil underneath.
Pat's really enjoying taking her clothes.
There's a lot of that in this.
Well, it is carry-on doctors.
Yeah, this scene is beautiful because she flirts outrageously with
him and he loves it.
I think that's possibly the actor rather than the character.
Because, you know, he did have his 2 wives and that's quite public
now we can talk about that.
Those whom we know.
The 2 different families, like the sons from the 2 different
families talk about what it was like and stuff.
And both of them have been in Doctor Who recently.
Yeah, here he is at Christmas.
Pat's flirting now.
You know that, well, Pat was making several loud noises about the
complexities he was having, you know, pre-filming for the next
story while recording current ones.
So he turns out he was even busier than all of us knew.
They have great chemistry.
Oh, they do.
They really do.
I mean, Mary Peach is such a great actress.
Victoria and Jamie look like brother and sister here.
Now, dear listener, if you can hear that, there are construction
works going on next to me, so we do apologise.
We're just going to bear through.
We'd edit this out normally.
Yeah.
It's actually just Nathan grinding his teeth because he's finding
it tires.
No, I'm not.
That's why I'm grinding my tea.
Oh dear.
Not careful.
You're not careful.
I induce a exposition comb. think we're free of those in this
story.
I had completely forgotten about the exposition comb run until you
brought it up the other week.
I was so pleased.
I even snuck it into the show notes.
Richard.
You are looking meaningfully at Lawrence Miles and Town.
I am looking at the little notes.
I'm just very interested to see that Peter Diamond played salamand
at salamander in certain moments.
But, you know, you were just talking about the helicopter sequence
and how absolutely terrifying it all was for everyone.
Um, Yeah, but the stock footage of, you see, helicopters is
actually from Russia with love.
So it's a nice crossover to Bondfingers.
Yes, that's right.
And I believe the sea devils uses helicopter footage from a bond
film as well.
I think that's why the helicopter changes completely between
sharks.
Yes.
Yeah, I mean, given that it's exploding here, it doesn't really
matter.
It's a different helicopter. one exploding helicopter looks much
like another, you might say.
I heard that.
Now, of course, this is Barry Lett's 1st involvement with the
program and he would go on to become producer, of course, and
continue directing for the show.
However, he initially came to the attention of the production team
as a potential writer.
He pitched stories to Jerry Davis, including a story about a race
of humanoids evolving into insectoid creatures.
He pitched the mutants.
Wow.
What a great topic for a podcast.
Shut up, Richard.
We'll be announcing...
Oh, look at that wallpaper.
Fantastic.
It's kind of the 3 musketeers in space, isn't it?
so far without the Oh hello.
I think he's stolen that beard from the judges back in Keys and
Mariners.
That's a podcast.
Oh.
Ow.
That really hurts.
And I'm just looking at the wallpaper.
It is fabulous.
Now, I remember when we were watching this rod was just joygasming
over the chairs.
He likes a bit of chair.
It doesn't show no.
So r show, aren't they?
Sorry, you mean that?
No, it doesn't shoot from studio to location, I'm afraid.
It's been like that Monty Python sketch.
We're completely surrounded by film.
They keep it ducking into the dunes and behind.
Oh, look at that shot. tissues.
Oh, hello.
Right up to Barry Litz.
There we go.
It'll it will too, Mary.
It will. there it is.
And you can see that it's a different canopy, but it doesn't
really matter. because we have an exploding helicopter in Doctor
Who.
James Bond helicopter.
So that's 2 people down for the count.
Who is this guy?
That's Ed Straker.
Bill Kerr. is his name.
He's Aussie, isn't he?
Yeah, Aussie.
Fresh from Tony Hancock's.
Yes.
Fabulous.
Is it another Doctor Who's?
I don't think so.
He's just very familiar. covering up his man. manly bottom.
He's one of those faces in the 60s he was in everything.
Um, I love, I love I love this whole bit with Jamie and Victoria
flanking the doctor.
It just shows that these 3 when they're, especially for Victoria
when they're given a good script, they are such a great team and
have such great chemistry.
I like that bit of a joke about, like, they've been away, they've
been on ice action. the last one.
Yeah, now, Bill Kerr absolutely loved doing Doctor Who.
There's another guest actor in this who we'll discuss later who
hated working on Doctor Who and he saw it as slumming it.
We'll talk about him when he appears.
Is it Clive Swift again?
It's not Clive Swift again.
Here we go.
Now, it's hard to tell, but they have even given him slight
prosthetics to build up his cheekbones as salamander to try and
make him look as different as possible.
Yes, you can see it now.
Yeah.
But just the part in the hair and Oh, it's just so glorious.
He is slightly blacked up, isn't he?
And, well, yes, he does have a fake tan.
And a severe side parting.
So the parallels are astounding.
Well, it is 2017, isn't it?
anti, yes, the anti isn't just over the border.
Except he believes in energy from the sun.
At spoiler alert, he does have a little race of dum-dums hidden
under the ground.
Dumb, dumb white people, let's point out. very pale white people.
But you know, 53% of some Amanda's voters in 2016 were white
women.
America?
Oh, really?
Well, in our universe, it's Trump.
Yeah, 53%.
Well, well, as as the doctor will shortly point out, he is quite
handsome.
Which, you know, you can't you can't say that's the reason for
that.
It's just so lovely to see Patrick doing a different character and
knowing that his portrayal of the doctor is acting.
Yeah, not just.
Well, I mean, it's obviously himself, but acting as well, you
know?
So good at it at defining the difference between the two.
Well, I mean, you get that with in the massacre, for goodness
sake.
The difference between the two.
Is there a huge difference?
Yeah, there is.
I think we'll have to do the Green Death because of Pertwee's
washerwoman.
Todd's really nodding here.
Well, the weird the weird thing is, um, Well, it will be for me.
Pertwi is the only doctor of the 1st 5 not to have a doppelganger
story.
No, he does.
He appears as a duplicate in what, Day of the Daleks, is it?
Yeah, yeah, I suppose that's the closest it comes.
Where, how, what?
Don't they have that's a time duplicate.
Oh, okay.
I love how just then the doctor didn't ask Victoria if she found
salamander attractive.
He asked Jamie.
Just pointing that out. movie was closer.
In so many ways.
Gosh, it's so good.
So I sat here and ate cake.
In my in my role next to my turtleneck. doesn't it show?
I don't think you're allowed to be over 25 and just like get
straight up from your face.
It's not awesome.
I do quite like the tack at that.
Man bottom.
Yeah, yeah.
Have a drink, listen.
Oh, hello.
It's a young Vladimir Putin.
It is true.
Oh, and George W.
Bush?
I think bad tea.
Do you know the YouTube guys, the French addicts?
They watch Doctor Who, and they're French, and one of them
discovered the series and seen it all, and the other one hasn't.
And so they were watching the new series and then they go back to
the beginning and start watching various episodes.
And one of the guys' reactions is just hilarious because when they
do like the time meddler and like there's a TARDIS and and all
these little, like the 3 doctors and like he's going, oh, it's, you
know, hard on getting really excited, it's really wonderful.
They should do this one just to see Patrick do these dual wrongs.
Oh that's great.
No, I haven't heard of that.
Please do send this to me.
I'm in space.
Don't be rude.
No, they speak in French.
I don't understand a word, but just the excitement of him watching
the different episodes.
Doctor Who podcast enfonseis.
We should do that.
I'll brush up.
Je ne comre pas.
What's trusting?
Because it's a similar concept.
It is a similar concept.
Oh, they're beating us, you know.
They're way ahead.
They're a battlefield.
Gosh.
Dylan keeps quoting Gene Marr.
And quite right too.
She's fabulous.
I love how they flatter the doctor here into doing it.
He's so great, isn't he?
He's so great.
He's the best actor in the old series.
And you wouldn't know he was so knackered, because as Richard was
saying earlier, he, the filming before on the beach was in the
middle of rehearsals for the Ice Warriors episode three, I
believe.
So they're having to do all that stuff with the Ice Warriors and
then going off to film that.
And it's not just, when you mentioned, the smugglers earlier, Todd
you know, they just kind of wander around, the story happens in
studio.
It's just for a bit of colour.
But this was, and a supremely energetic shoot.
And Barry Letts was very clever in that.
I think he had 4 days to shoot it.
He only required, and he only required the regulars for the 1st
day and a half.
And so he saved all... close-ups that didn't require their face.
So hands, stuff from behind, that sort of thing.
He saved that and used stand ins.
Right, okay.
Because he was aware of how Patrick was?
Yeah exactly.
And even though they had worked together before.
They'd worked together as actors before, and Pat was actually a
bit wary of Barry being a director now.
Uh, whereas, um, Fraser was just, yeah, perfectly happy.
Um, But Barry said he ran into a bit of problems with Pat getting
them to stop playing cards to actually come to the studio to shoot
things.
All shouting at once.
I love how he manoeuvres him into this.
It just sets him up as not necessarily a hero very early on.
A little less eccentric, brilliant.
Considering what we see him wearing in the next episode, I think
that's very cruel.
Oh dear.
He really is just such a pleasure to watch.
I'd kind of forgotten.
This is so awesome.
And here we go.
Oh, that's a great outfit.
It's Reuben the Rooten.
Is it?
Yeah, it is, isn't it?
Who, um...
Who, uh, told Debbie Watling while he was working on this.
This is the worst thing I've ever done.
I'm certainly not coming back and I don't want to be asked.
Well, obviously that changes when you're made into a big green
blob.
Yeah, he's fabulous.
Yeah, yeah, he's good on this.
I mean, the fact is he has to maintain a sort of just, I'm pissed
off with everyone thing for 6 episodes.
So maybe it's not...
It's a very prototype Roger Delgado master outfit, isn't it?
She looks very impressed.
You know, a friend of the podcast, Dallas Jones, has his Anley
master cosplay.
If he ever took the gold off it.
He could play Bruce from Bruce.
Yeah.
The accent.
Are you doing that?
He would have to shape that.
I've never known Dallas not to have the beard.
So yeah, probably best he sticks with the master.
Given out, honestly, give an actor a prop.
Look, he's just waving it about it everywhere.
Rip the scenery apart with it.
Maybe he's just a method.
So he's just playing that.
Actually, it's really, it's...
What was his name, the buggery old root?
Reuben.
Reuben the Ruten.
Oh, a hat.
Why are you wearing that inside?
You'd only get to mischief, you know that.
Oh, hurrah.
Oh, he's wearing a tactile neck.
Did he did he jaffer up for this one?
No.
Tell, can we?
Not yet.
He will.
A halub was.
I'm Anstabler Blufffeld.
It really is the bond we should have had all the time.
It's a superb cliffhanger, too. very good.
And definitely Barry's answer to Bond.
Yeah, since everyone was more obsessed with that in the media than
any other piece of entertainment at the time.
The original script, um, Colin Douglas, unsurprisingly for writer
David Whittaker, was apparently a lot wordier, and Barry took out
not lots of words, but enough words to add in action sequences.
Yeah, there wasn't much of pet, was there?
It was Jamie.
Next time.
Yeah, next episode.
Next time.
Um, Yeah, so here we are with episode two.
I like these opening credits.
The beautiful, aren't they?
Simple and modern.
Like a butterfly.
And the way that Pat appears.
I think is...
Like a spider with 8 eyes.
Reassuring all the children.
And it's still called Dr. Ohho, which is nice.
A little bit.
And these always reminded me of brains as a child.
David Whitaker.
It's beautiful.
David Whittaker.
I've just been watching Power of the Daleks colour.
Oh, what's it like?
Well, it's any version I've watched, so I really liked it.
We went to the cinema and saw it in black and white with no
cliffhangers or anything, and that was enjoyable, but, uh, Two
people in front of us who wouldn't shut up.
I know.
Not many terrible people.
I hope they listen to the podcast and they feel very bad about
themselves.
Oh dear.
There's another thing, Barry Let's decided, was not to have much
in the way of reprises.
So here it's it was just one line.
It was actually reshot. really neatly done.
Was this going to be Janie and Victoria playing chess a lot?
You know the script that Whitaker actually wanted to write and
then progressed to the target novelisation and then he cruelly was
with us no more.
Ian Marta picked it up and had to redo it, but it was much more
wordy and cerebral and non-visual in his bookish form.
Did he write, he wrote the Crusades, didn't he?
I loved that one, yes.
Well, in his original...
In his original script, because as we'll see, in, as we'll see
coming up, Jamie becomes a rubber clad guard for a bit.
In the original script, Victoria was going to become a guard as
well, and the production team just kind of said, no, no, put her
in the kitchen.
Nice.
Who's the producer of this one?
I think we are still on Peter Bryant for this one.
Okay.
Yeah, I think in as Lloyd's gone now.
Peter Bryant.
Derek Sherwin, I believe.
They are all interchanging around here.
It's all like whatever jobs for the boys.
We training people up.
I can't even remember.
No, I find it confusing.
I'm not really up to speed on any of that in the 60s. really liked
it.
Oh, that's just fantastic.
This was around the time where Derek Sherwin, who had his eyes on
the producership anyway, despite the fact he was script editor
brought in Terence Dix as associate, um, junior unofficial
associate, script...
But it's all succession planning, which, you know, which is a good
thing.
Oh, I tell a lie.
Story editor is still Peter Bryant at this stage.
And producer is still in as Lloyd.
So Derek Sherwin was the unofficial, unpaid, unannounced script
editor and contacted Terence Dix during the production of this
saying, when I become script editor, have it, you become my
assistant.
Okay.
Yeah.
It probably changes within a story or two.
Oh, God, yeah.
Actually, hold on.
Let's have a look at the next story of her hair.
Her hair reminds me of Lucille Ball.
Yeah, it is. from here's Lucy.
Well, of course, they're both wearing wigs.
It's a Lego clip on piece of hair.
It is.
It's made of...
I love Victoria's hair in this story.
I just like the way it's been...
It is, it's lovely.
She's very, still very Alice in Wonderland.
Yeah, yeah.
She hasn't escaped that part at all.
Bill Kearr's really chewing up this strange pictures there, isn't
he?
Oh, hand acting.
I think he's do you think he's playing Jamie right now?
He looks so much younger.
Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?
Not that he looked old, but I'm just saying he looked, he just
looks younger.
Well, maybe maybe maybe I mean sexier.
Well, he...
Oh, God.
They lived up, didn't they?
Oh, well, yeah, no, he enjoyed himself. 1986 when he passed away
he was 67.
So, math is hard.
I've got to say, I didn't look like that at 44.
He has more hair.
Yeah, he's got more hair. more hair than me.
She's not going to unzip any further, is she?
I mean, it must be must be having a bit of a brisk climate
frisking.
Australia of 2017.
It's been very hot.
I do like that even though I believe this is Villiers house, this
external.
Even though...
No, this is a factory.
Do you have a plantary part?
I do have a planetary pass.
It's just thinking, I wish I'd brought it with me today, but it's
in my desk drawer.
Oh good grief.
It's your castellan tot.
It's my castellan.
I think he looks like one of the lemon heads off adventure time.
That's what that is, but anyway, he really does.
What else is he apart from the castellan?
Oh, his guy crave?
Oh, yes, going.
I've got my iPad up there.
That is terrific, isn't it?
So hideous.
He's really, really good though.
Really quite terrifying.
Well, I mean, the hair, to begin with, and it is.
I think he's actually like in terms of nastiness.
He's a worse villain in this than salamander.
Oh, yeah.
We should say we're talking about Milton John.
Yes, yes, that's right.
The wonderful Milton Johns, who, even when he is Guy Crayford
who's one of the biggest idiots ever in the history of the series
plays it really well.
I think his greatest calendar as well, isn't he?
He must be really young here.
Yeah, well, he looks really babyfaced, which is why the sadism
thing works really well.
Bates Motel.
No, he looks very Plantagenet actually. there's a whole line of
English leaders who look just like that. behave just like this
too.
Look at that wonderful.
Is that wallpaper or just some sort of grid mesh thing?
Oil wallpaper?
It's probably, it's probably, yeah, foil.
Um, you know, anytime, is it a flat or is it a 3D sculptural
piece?
It's probably a flat because they're cheaper.
Well, living in the future now.
Thank God we're not wearing that.
Well, I was going to say, I want my snazzy outfit and I want my
pill popping wallpaper.
Yes.
Yeah, I'd decorate a house like that.
There might be a few people in town tonight wearing this.
You'll keep the rain off.
We are recording this, dear listener, the day of the Mardi Gras
parade.
I'm not in it this year, but the wrestlers do have a float.
Is anyone in it or going standing on a milk crate?
Been there, done that, wrote the book.
Yeah, I was going to have a cup of tea, perhaps.
And watch the massacre.
SBS are doing some sort of live.
They are doing live coverage at last, but no, it's on Sunday.
I think it's on Sunday.
Oh, but they're doing an Edison version on Sunday, but they are
doing a live stream.
I think on SBS 2...
I'm sitting down and watching 14 episodes of a story.
You're going to do trial of a timeline in one go?
No, like hell.
We did a political parade a couple of years ago and I did all the
masks for it, but we were cut out of the commentary because SBR
said it was too political.
So after that, my friend who I can't name on this, who's been
involved since day one, after 20 something years has dropped out.
Todd, what did you want to say?
It's salamander.
And salamander.
And this dude.
Yes.
And is it the father of new series director Daniel Netheim?
Playing Federator?
Uncle, I think.
I think it's uncle.
So he directed her time?
Yeah, he directed Zion Invasion and Zion Inversion.
Oh, he's the dude from...
Is he from the Mutants?
No, oh, this guy?
No, the other one.
The other guy is, um, is from, from...
Is he from the...
Oh, Deadly Assassin.
Yeah, deadly crafts.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's not right.
Yeah, that's good.
Deadly accent. and the mutants.
He is from the mutants.
Yes, he's in the mutants.
He's actually the best series of all...
But...
Veteran is...
Oh, look.
For real.
Oh, God, she's amazing.
I had a moment thinking it was Elizabeth from the Tomorrow when I
1st saw this one, but she's...
Don't be cruel.
Isn't she?
I think she's the best girl to appear in Doctor Who's so far.
Did you say Carmen Canax?
Carmen, Carmen Monroe's fabulous.
This girl?
Yeah, Carmen Monroe.
Yes.
I'm sorry.
I do disagree.
I actually think she's quite ropey.
That's I think she's quite wooden and roping.
I just do.
When a scene comes up where you feel. make sure you sing out.
She has actually recorded with who talk, who are a part of a
company who run wonderful conventions in the UK phantom films
phantom publishing.
Uh, then now...
Oh no, he's turning around now.
They're now doing commentaries for stories that either don't have
commentaries or they're doing them with people who weren't on
them.
You can buy them on CD.
And Carmen Monroe is on some of the episodes for enemy of the
world.
And therefore, fabulously not dead.
But this is Gooch.
Gooch.
Oh, of course.
Oh, look.
And here's the lovely sound of music scene.
I'm only 16.
We have.
I'll soon be 17.
Yes, that's right, Jamie, you will be.
Indoor outdoor.
Barry's back projection.
Oh, because there's a bit coming up where Jamie is walking towards
them.
That's actually a back projected screen.
So that's a film trim being played that they shot on location
especially.
He's using all of his tricks.
Yeah, yeah.
Sean Sutton cast a few of them as well.
Sean Sutton, later ahead of cereals as a director on Zed Cars, had
used it to great success and that's why Barry used it.
Well, it actually goes right back to silent.
No period.
Can we mention German expressions to anyone playing bingo?
Go on.
No one knows when this was shot.
No one knows.
It's not in the episode 2 script. not in any of the shooting
scripts.
The presumption is it was shot along with this scene in episode
four.
And if you're listening to this on the train, that's Mary Pickford
whispering into her tranny.
Yeah, which should be updated to mean a transistor radio for the
young people listening.
It's not quite as scurrilous as you think.
But also part of the reason that's assumed as well is Pat doesn't
have time to get out of costume and back into costume here.
So do you think the boy can handle it?
Oh, I know James Selwood would be just... for this one wouldn't
he?
Oh, a prisoner phone.
Now, that phone children is actually from the set of the prisoner
because, 0 no, the what?
It's the real thing, but they did use the same model.
I thought they were being precinct in this one and cutting the
chords off and pretending they're all radio phones because no such
thing existed, of course, back in 60, 7.
Yes, this is the year we were all born.
Hooray, a disused yeti.
I was born in 67. 66, yeah.
Now, this is 67.
Yeah, 67,68.
Christmas 67.
This episode went out on the... just fresh for this.
I think I was born during the war game.
Much like this podcast.
We'll do that next.
I was born during the mutants.
So many reasons to vote for that one, do you?
I was born during in Australian terms during a repeat run of
Terror of the Zygons.
Oh, that's quite lovely.
That's quite...
What was the most recently?
A month before the 5 doctors.
Oh, isn't she gorgeous?
She's gorgeous.
Yeah. this bit is great.
She's about to tell him about the drink.
Now, what does that mean?
I don't know.
Okay, but it's in Spanish.
I know what Todd means.
She's very much engrenue, but I kind of like that she just has so
much energy and feist and really means when she spits out these
words.
It's such a funny thing, isn't it fair?
I think only Whizaker would have a character called Faria, and a
character called Faria in the same.
And Federate.
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, it's...
No one ever gets them confused.
Well, they don't look the same.
That's true.
And they are literally on different sides in the plot.
I mean, not in terms of their personal politics, if you like, but
yeah.
I want my crazy futuristic vinyl onesie.
This is funny.
I'm wearing one.
This is so funny.
I am so. brilliant.
Now, Speaking of tasting bitter, Nathan made me lick something
before the podcast.
Oh, dear listen.
Surely you've completed your bingo card by now.
No, I've, I've...
You're gonna have any...
I've recently, I've got nothing to say.
I've recently bought a Nintendo Switch, and there's been, there's
been these articles about how the game cartridges for it.
Tastes bad, and I just went, well, why are you tasting them?
But it turns out when I got here, Nathan made me lick it.
I can still taste it.
It has this terrible bitter aftertaste and the theory is... theory
is that Nintendo have done it to discourage children eating them.
Because they're really tiny.
You could inhale.
We could do this, we should do the same with them.
It's action, Fraser.
With Brendan's Nerf gun.
He's a kid now. squid now, so I think we use Splatoon fan.
A little bit Jane Fonda, but blustier, isn't it?
Actually, Fasia's really good.
It's a great big bomb.
Oh, we both die.
You perform me.
Donald.
Oh, that's good to have it in the studio.
That was a very dad's army level explosion.
Explode that backdrop.
But I do, I do like the salamanders cosplaying as perwee.
It's a great hustle.
Oh, hello.
And the robomen.
Yes.
Bird of Crewman's in vinyl.
I was going, where have these people come from?
Yes.
Cribbon's closet, yes.
It is amazing, and I think we said...
Well, we don't see the doctor for a while. you know, for quite a
while.
But he's just compelling as salamander.
Oh yes, I will have a drink.
Thank you, Richard.
We have an exciting competition to announce at the end of this one
too, dear listen.
You have to listen to the end of this then.
And if it's not exciting, well.
Oh, is exciting.
Well, we're excited.
That doesn't take much, though.
Oh, I should also mention that.
Yes.
Friend of the podcast, Elijah Crayling.
Has his own part.
Is he in this as well?
has his own podcast?
Of course he does. called Who Tells Your Story?
and it's now available on iTunes.
And he's interviewed Adrian Salmon.
And me.
Do you get the sense that everybody's podcasting, but nobody's pod
listening?
Yeah, no, no.
I think that's right.
I'm available to guest on podcasts, by the way, Brendan.
Brendan is the voice of F2, every other podcast.
What a boy, huh?
But no, he's...
Speaking of, Elijah's a lovely young man.
He's 17 and he has a podcast.
I think he's being youngest...
What?
Yes.
And I don't know that we have any colour photos of this costume.
It's been rendered with the highlights in pink and in purple.
I didn't know there was a weeping angel in the background of this
shot.
What does Brujo mean?
We're all asking for that.
Oh there you go.
In Mexican.
Yeah.
I think there used to be a magazine I subscribe to called.
Oh, actually, I'm good.
Oh, look, yeah, that's terribly funny.
Yeah, yeah.
That's the kind of thing that we were using on Zed cars to kind of
extend... inventive.
Like, you know, there's not as much budget in this episode.
You just walked out of out of the film.
Yeah, it's good No, but you know, the whole veranda set and the
bomb and using that.
Very clever.
Well, I mean, and that's really a hallmark of his period on the
show as producer, isn't it?
pushing the boundaries of technology and seeing what you can do.
And look, I don't care that it fails sometimes.
And in fact, I think that I think we might have said when we did
our tour of the autons episode that that it was actually really
exciting.
It was like a comic book.
Yeah, it's better to take risks and, you know.
We have to remember, though, we're watching this in isolation and
you only have to go sideways.
Oh my god, that outfit.
You don't have to go sideways and look at, um, say even on a
Blackman Avengers at the time to realise this is actually really
well made because, you know, even the top level dramas at the time
as you say, like Z cars.
They were all using the same techniques and it looks clunky to us
now.
Yeah, Rod and I are watching the Kathy Gales now and it's his 1st
time watching them and he keeps asking me, this is before Doctor
Who. yeah I'm like, no, by now, we are we are up to the same and
he's like, God, it looks like it's 3 or 4 years before.
And that's just how innovative.
I'm writing her more this time through because I'm seeing a lot
more of her smiling and being happy and that sort of thing, whereas
I think the previous time I watched this, it was just like stony
faced.
Yes, yes, yes.
Without because, dear listener, of course, we watch this without
the sound and with the subtitles.
Possibly it's without the voice because sometimes someone's voice
just gets to you.
You know what I mean?
What are you looking at when you're saying?
I was looking at told, actually.
I was looking at him, but I was talking about, never mind.
And this is a...
Salamander swallowed it.
The boy is very confident.
He's a big lizard.
He's near enough.
I'll give him to him.
George Bravta is wonderful.
I love his accent.
I love always love his deliveries.
It is kind of a silly sort of boy zone bond, but they are
delivering it with as much gravitas as they can manage. has
truthiness written all over his lovely face.
Mary is more pretty than she is anything else.
It's more performative, isn't it?
Yes, yeah.
But, I mean, the bond thing, they throw it away before it gets
tiresome.
Which is the right thing to do.
Yeah, in an absolutely mental direction.
I just realised we have another future villain in a very small
part in this story.
I'll point him out when we get to him.
Actually, I will just check.
I'm right on that by checking the castle list, but I just
remembered.
Ooh.
I think he's going to turn up next episode.
And I'm wearing that tonight, actually, then those are those
trousers.
They were actually standing above them.
That is a 2 level set.
It's not a cutaway to somewhere else.
It's kind of a shame that they don't pull back, but they would
have just shown how small the set was.
Yeah, exactly.
And shoot off the set now.
But he's a great, the lighting as well. so that works so well
we're we're Yes, we're reproducing it in this very room, aren't
we?
We are actually.
We're all under Brendan's coffee table.
The doctor doesn't mean this episode, has he?
I have your elbows in my, in my, Can you just thanks, stunning.
He was in a cutaway earlier.
Oh was he?
Yeah.
But they shot it.
I believe they shot it later for episode four.
There's no document.
Oh, yes, you were talking about that. forgotten to squeeze Todd's
neighbour into episode two.
No, no, I'm leaving him alone.
I've been given a thorough talking to I think we were a bit
tactile with the lovely Todd last podcast.
Well, it was very gripping.
Actually, I was wrong.
I thought that laughing on the inside, Richard.
I can feel it.
I'm right next to you on the coffee turtle.
I thought that one of the guards in the next episode was Jerome
Willis later to play Jocelyn Stevens in the Green Death, but it's
not...
I'm clutching my Phantom Cardigan, right now.
That's excitement.
But it's not.
It's not him.
It looks like Pat's actually got eye shadow.
Yeah, she's done something with her eyebrows, hasn't she?
Yeah, Sylvia James has done a wonderful job delineating the
makeup.
Of course, she was responsible for the ice warrior face makeup and
giving them the pebbledash chink.
Rice Crisp is gone to waste, but for a higher purpose.
And Sylvia is also one of the commentary contributors on the
Phantom Films commentary of this.
Is there a commentary on the DVD?
No, there isn't.
They rush them out to DVD. no commentary.
Oh, Brendan, actually, or any of you, Todd, maybe you know.
There's lots of fan talk when these 1st came out that, oh, we're
going to get the special edition later on with the commentaries
and everything else. and they, does anyone know are they coming?
I gather it was...
It was discussed.
Oh, stock a stock of volcanic eruptions, just like he told
Castellan Spandrel was going to happen.
But you can almost get away with it in black and white.
Yes, it works.
There's less of a joint.
Like the Colin Baker era, yes.
Well, I've been finding that, Richard. you're absolutely right I
find, actually, I enjoy watching it when I'm in another room all
day.
As audio because Colin is great on audio, as we have discussed, and
as we will be discussing in a few weeks time.
I've actually started listening and I'm really liking it.
Yeah.
So I might have positive things to say, which will be jarring for
everyone.
I don't think I can, but both have listened to that.
Now, as we announced last week on Revelation of the Daleks.
Richard has changed his mind instead of looking at crisscross.
Yes because he caught me in a moment.
Oh, hello.
We're going to be, we're going to be looking at, it's from the
last adventure, which is a box set. looking at the final story
which I think is called the Brink of Death.
Yes, with the lovely Michael Jason.
Yes, and I'd listen to the whole thing, dear listener, but you
know...
Bonnie to Melody Lice at Bangford.
It's just beautifully written for a colony.
He's just so nice in it. been enjoying all of the BF audios with
Colin.
Have you heard it?
I'm not up to that in the run of audio, so I actually won't be
listening to it.
You can jump around because it does as a story.
I understand, but no, I won't be...
We may spoil you.
Yeah, it's okay, but I, you know...
Do you know that he regenerates at the end?
Bumps his head?
Yeah, yeah, bumps his head on the...
It's a really good reason.
Yeah, there's a far better.
Well, don't spoil that, but we won't spoil that for you.
What are you, what's yours?
Nathan?
I picked Jubilee, actually.
You picked Jubilee?
I hadn't heard it, but I just knew it from its reputation and knew
that...
I gave you a copy of that.
Yeah, no.
How loving of you to listen to.
No, I've now downloaded. downloaded on the big finish hat.
Have with my face, right?
Have we done all that?
Doctor Who Salamand.
I was actually Ronnie Barker on a slingdown version with a beard
isn't it?
That's another great question.
Everyone looked like Rolf Harris, which was Entertainment or Mary
Peach.
It's true.
We all have that look. funny, both of these cliffhangers aren't
necessarily somebody in peril.
Well, so Amanda or the doctor or some a statement.
They all like that.
Someone learns something.
Yeah.
Because that's how good Lets and Whittaker is.
Isn't it nice that Peter Bryant totally predicted the hipster
movement?
Penis.
Things.
Think about the things.
And we're back with F3.
Did that auto play, Brendan?
That auto plays, yeah. brilliant The reason we're taking strange
little pauses, listeners, we weren't sure whether the iTunes
version would autoplay, but it does, so there we are.
In terms of the commentary for this.
So this episode three...
You can get commentary.
So episode one is Deborah Watling.
Episode 2 is Mary Peach.
Episode 3 is Carmen Monroe and Bill Lyons, who plays the chief
guard.
Episode 4 is Carmen Monroe.
Episode 5 is Milton Johns and Mary P.
And episode 6 is Milton Johns and Sylvia James, and all of those
are, of course, moderated by the lovely Toby Haygo.
Hey, Doc, how delicious.
Now this is, I believe this is Bill Lyons.
He's fabulous.
I love him.
Oh we know.
Oh, no, I tell, like, that's Gordon Faith.
Bill Lyons is the guard on Danish.
Now, throwing shade. over there.
Jamie in the outfit.
This is the reason Joe Orton came a fan of Doctors.
And that was that close-up of Jamie was also the clip.
They used in Resurrection of the Daleks.
Yes.
Did you know that Orton wanted to cast young, Fraser, in
entertaining Mr. Sloan as the ruffian?
Well, the ruffian in the stairs written before, but because of
this episode.
And it's the only one mentioned in the diaries, and it's a little
bit risque.
So if you're a young listener, I suggest you dash and read it
right now, you need to learn these things.
Similarly, Kenneth Williams mentioned, an episode of, seem to have
a mentioned episode of the faceless ones in his diaries, where he
said, put on Dr. Fortenate.
Complete rubbish, but there was a boy with very nice legs.
So it was either Fraser or Andred.
Andred was in that episode.
I like D'Andrea.
Or WandaVenthem.
Now, this is the episode.
This is the episode that was recovered by the BBC in the early
80s.
Yeah, so this was the only one we'd seen.
Which made no sense.
And it was the one, this episode, like there's no location
filming.
It's all on sets.
This was Barry's money saver for the 1st episode, and he expressed
in his autobiography, who and me, that he was bitterly
disappointed that this was the episode that existed because he's
like, we did wonderful things at the beginning and at the end, and
this was the money saver.
It's just people in corridors.
He's like, it's not bad as part of the whole, but on its own.
It's the 1st example of my Doctor Who work.
And I'm so sorry that we don't have everything else.
Was he still with us when the rest of it was found?
I don't think he was.
Oh, he just passed that year or the year before.
He passed.
Sorry, he passed 2012, I think.
Yeah, he had been ill for a long time, like his successive
appearances.
DVD extras, his sicker and sicker, I think.
That was part of Ian Levine's objection to apparently, apparently
and I don't know what truth there is in this, but these 2 stories
were recovered about a year before they were released.
Right.
And of course, part of that is restoration work, but we later
found out that part of it was because episode 3 of the Web of Fear
had been sold on after it was found and they were trying to get it
back for that year and also try to track down other things as
well.
And that was part of the delay.
But yeah, Ian Levine was very upset that Barry wasn't able to find
out, hey, this whole story's back.
Personally, I think Barry probably had bigger things on his mind.
But...
And here we got the waiting.
Or the security corridor, which is not actually very secure at
all.
It's easier to guard him. locked with an inch of its life, too
isn't it?
Look at that wallpaper.
That outfit.
Brendan, really, I think we need to be expanding your cosplay.
Oh, hello.
Oh, hello, yes.
Who's that?
He's known as prison rations.
I thought that was Jerome Willis, but apparently that's Bill
Lyons.
How lovely.
It's beautifully tense, though, and elegantly scripted.
It does feel like.
Oh, security kitchen. beautifully shot.
No, it's Sandford.
Nathan, did you want to touch on this?
Sand of a says about this episode.
I think I remember him saying, and I didn't read it in preparation
so I'm just sort of my memories of reading it on the loo over the
past few years.
Best place to do it.
Is that the interesting thing about Griffin is he's a character
who would never sort of appear in Doctor Who before he's something
someone that you would just sort of never normally see. critiques
the rest of this story beautifully.
So in a very Brechtian way.
He's a downstairs character.
Yeah, exactly.
He, in fact, yes, he's the Jonah Lumley in the downtown abbey
sipping off all the time.
Remember when she did the yes?
That Downton Abbey at Downton Abbey.
Upstairs downtown Abbey?
Yeah, yeah.
With French and Saunders and China Lumley.
Yes, which you should be watching that while you're listening to
it.
It's a really, really great character, isn't he?
So funny.
He's funny. saturnine and duer and very funny, and this is the
point, the Doctor Who, when it does comedy, I think it does it
blithely and succinctly and perfectly. and this is this is it.
Great comedy.
Yeah, importantly, Doctor Who tends to put comic characters in
serious situations.
Yeah, rather than comic situations.
Like even the unicorn and the wasp in the new series, which is a
comedy.
The situation is serious.
There are murders happening.
The unicorn and the wasps.
Oh, right, I see.
You know, and you have that one...
You have that wonderful bit at the end where Christopher Benjamin
confesses he, that's who you've been able to walk all this time
and Agatha Christie says, actually, I was going to say you were
completely innocent.
And he says, oh, shall I sit down?
All the, all the intro.
Interference in the kitchen.
Oh, well, we've all been there.
I love Victoria's face there.
She's obviously had to deal with this with her servants.
Yes.
Yes, her servants.
That's what she calls them too.
So the comedy foregrounds, salamander, and the kind of world that
we live in as well.
Yeah, poo poos this episode, but it actually ties the entire story
together and makes it that much darker.
Yeah, by the contrast.
Oh, hello.
I mean, Sandifer wrote his essay before he'd seen it.
And he said that he thought it was probably the best trout and
just on the basis, I think, of the soundtrack or the recons or
whatever it was he watched.
The BBC audio of this.
And I still listen to it other than watch it because it just, it's
well, again, their audio plays.
They work beautifully.
Oh, with this episode in particular.
I think you'd miss out because episode one is so remarkably...
At least Jamie and Victoria, actually, are doing something with
wild. like them in this, don't you?
Yeah, yeah, I think both of them.
Well, I mean, I always like, I think Fraser always delivers a good
performance, whether or not Jamie is written generically or
whatever.
He does a lot with the character, doesn't he?
He's visually interesting.
Victoria, for me, unfortunately, I just think they make her be
damsel in distress so often.
So it's good when she gets other moments and I think her best
moment in the whole series is in this story, which we haven't seen
yet.
So are they off next week?
Yeah, I think it's next week they're off.
Yeah, it's next week.
It's next week.
I can only imagine what Pat made of that.
There's like, I have to play 2 parts and they get a holiday.
Well, he spends a fair amount of his run unconscious on holiday
does he?
Yeah, played by Chris Jeffries.
Now that's definitely used in Inferno.
But that is so clever.
Like starting on the screen and pulling out.
I was about to say, that looks so fake like it's on a television.
And now we've got Giles Caravan.
Which is rather amazing.
So what's...
They're scoping out the place in a caravan.
It's weird delaying tactics too, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, that's the thing.
Like, the doctor spends, like, all of this story going, no, I
don't have enough evidence yet.
I don't have enough evidence to go after this dictator.
It's like, when do you ever wait for evidence ever?
We've got 6 episodes and we have to delay the big...
Is that his own picture on the wall or is that someone else?
I think it's meant to be his dad or maybe it's him as a young
man.
Because there is a resemblance.
Seems like for ever since we've seen the doctor.
Yeah, yeah. only had one scene last episode. like a cushion like
that.
Whereas, you know, now we had salamander at the beginning, and
then we had 2 scenes without him to get Pat. into his proper
makeup, and you'll notice that his his doctor hair is a little
less scruffy during this story, where he has to change out of
being salamander, because they rough it up as much as they can, but
it's not truly unruly.
So you can still see the remains of the side parting there.
I mean, there would have been a recording break as well to strip
off the makeup and whatnot.
That's a lot link.
They're never going to look in there. wonderful.
He totally looked at his man.
This is hello, low.
That's caravan.
So would you.
I might have known.
So we're still in Australia here.
Yeah, Australia, Turkey or something?
Hungry.
Yeah.
So Jamie and Victoria are now in Hungary.
Their transport system is instantaneously.
Well, that was always the thing, though, that people imagined in
the future that you would be able to get from country to country
in sort of half an hour.
You know, they didn't realise in 2017.
You can't even get from suburb to suburb in half an hour.
It's actually got worse and worse isn't it?
Well, well, well.
Who's the daddy?
Oh, so we do know who it is.
Oh, no.
Okay, yeah.
So it does seem to be his old photo.
I have no right to our clutch your arms.
Why do you push your arms out?
Why did we all carry around fire extinguishers in the future?
In the future now?
How odd that we are sitting here in the future?
talking about something that's it.
We have done that in a security kitchen.
I mean, think about watching the 10th Planet, for instance, or
Space 90s.
That wasn't in 79.
Oh, not like this.
Ruin all those nice things.
Oh, and that's that...
That beautiful line that...
Yeah, it's coming up, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, just wait for it.
It's a really, really great doctor.
Well, particularly Troughton, but very much a doctor line, which I
think is lovely.
We are all aware the press had now been, you know, fully opened.
A lot of artists were still communists were signed up to the party
but we knew that Stalin was doing this to artists and writers.
So.
Hover craft wearing. of a craft.
It's full of eels.
Oh, you see, yeah.
Yeah, no, I don't.
Oh, but do we understand that the doctor knows who Giles Candy
is?
Yeah, I think, yeah, there's a payoff later that he suspects.
People spend all their time making nice things. people come along
and break them.
That's beautiful.
That's lovely.
That's now, isn't it?
Yeah, no, it's it's us. people.
Yeah, but this is also, in fact, us saying, you know, when are we
going to intercede and stop this regime?
Right now?
No, no, no.
She's in her new outfit for the episode.
You know, is it okay to punch a natural disaster causing fascist
in the face?
Yes.
Captain America would.
So there you go.
She seems to be able to get into these places rather easily.
She's fabulous.
No, I'm not saying she's not.
The bouncers just waver straight in.
Well, this guy's going to because he's about to chatter up, which
is an incredibly sweet moment.
I love this.
I mean, yeah, it's stereotyping, but...
Oh, look at her smile.
She's evil, gorgeous.
Cut himself.
Oh, yes, I'll come back all right.
I actually think world leaders should have the title leader.
I think that's fabulous Yes.
Leader Trumbull.
This beard reminds me of Captain Sisko's beard from Deep Space 9
in the very 1st episode where he has the beard where it's not
quite right.
It's too bushy down below.
Sorry, I just thought I'd picture it.
No, you're right.
And then there's that episode where they give him the new 1st
contract, 1st contact uniforms, but it doesn't quite fit and his
comb badge is up too high and it's on the gray bit.
You remember that?
I do know when it happens.
Yeah.
That's the thing.
You don't really notice in a run of episodes, but once you see
it...
Yes.
Meanwhile, back in the security kitchen.
You just wish it all together.
Oh shut up.
He's sit down.
This is me.
That was him being chivalrous standing when a woman enters the
room.
It's lovely Gods everywhere.
It's like duh.
They have everyone's kind of sidelined, aren't they?
We're just enjoying the things going on around us with Mary and
Danish and all of these people.
Um, it works quite well.
Where's where's salamander?
Oh, here we go.
He's getting back into makeup.
God, there are editors like this at work.
And he's the only one doing the accent and he's not even in
Australia.
Actually, there is a guy exactly like this, except he has hair.
Oh, God, it's Nathan.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
It tiresome.
This food is so tiresome.
The firing squad would be...
Oh, he's a stoic. practising negative visualisation.
Yeah, yeah.
He's so strikingly weird looking as well.
Yes.
Liberty Hall, Dr. Tyler.
Liberty Hall.
Oh, this is her standouts moment coming up.
For real.
Yeah.
Yeah, aside from the very unfortunate scene which happens the next
episode and it's very distressing because she's so lovely.
Spoilers.
Yeah.
Oh, this bit, yeah.
Yeah, what do you know?
And it's, it's world building as well as well as characterisation
like we're learning a bit about the world, and it doesn't all have
to be explained to us.
Yeah, well.
Yes, that makes me assuming we have intelligence.
Yeah, it's nice, isn't it?
It's not, you know, where where the short, where the short, where
the short, tall, fat, thin, gay atheists, why would we have
names?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, which works for a second, but it's like, oh.
And then one of them gets horribly decapitated. you know, yay
representation.
Yeah, that was really Moffat's response for being to being told
off that there weren't enough gay people. in his Doctor Who is to
put the Fat one and the thin one in.
The funny thing is, Good man goes to war, is it?
Yeah, yeah.
But under Russell, he constantly has men flirting with men and
women flirting with women.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean maybe that's Russell rewriting it.
But according to Russell, the whole thing with all the all the gay
characters in the doctor dances came from Moffatt.
Yeah.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.
Oh, dear.
This is where's the salt?
Make Victoria look like an idiot.
Why isn't he going on about eggs, boiled eggs?
Yes, no.
He's got this poison to give to George Pravda.
What if he doesn't take salt?
Everyone did back then.
Everyone had high blind...
Everyone had salt, everyone smoked.
Everyone had 2 wives.
Cocaine injected directly into the buttocks.
I'm doing that now.
LDS.
L alphabet of leisure drugs.
You just forget it's the doctor, then.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's that's the highest compliment.
We can pay him, really.
They flared his eyebrows. had a career before this show.
And what's what's telling about it is the Abbot of Amboise came
around because Hartnell petitioned to play a duplicate of
something.
I want to stretch myself down there.
Patrick didn't know he was he was playing a duplicate until he got
the script.
That's a nice way to do.
And, you know, he was a bit worried about the load, but, um, he
kind of just said, look, you know, let's just sit down and figure
out a way where it's not too, where it's still like, it's like
playing one part in terms of the volume.
Yeah.
But, you know, I'm happy to do it.
And that's the thing.
Like, he constantly after the show talked about how tiring it was
but you never, it never translates on screen, how tight he was, and
by the end, how kind of, I think, uh, it was, Dominate as a mind
robber, he was really getting frustrated, and that's why mind
dropper episodes are so short, but it never comes across in his
performance, that he's really angry.
I think he's throwing it a bit in the dominators.
I think he's he's cross.
Yeah, but that's a script.
Yeah, well, I think that's what he's cross at.
You know, maybe it's not that he's tired.
Maybe it's that this is really terrible and he's going to, and
actually, I think when he clowns around in that final episode of
The Dominators, it's pretty much the only enjoyable thing in the
entire story.
Oh, he couldn't do it.
Oh, well, that's not going to do him any good, is it?
Poor Daniel Netheim.
David May time?
Daniel that time?
David and that time.
David at home.
Daniel at home is a director.
And I, I have to say, despite the, despite the fact that Daniel
Nedheim has a full head of hair. resemblance because we saw him at
the Doctor Who festival, giving a talk.
Yeah, there's definitely a family resemblance there.
Oh, you're in trouble when Salamander smiles at you.
And when you've given him back the poison and he offers you a
drink veteran.
Pay attention, veteran, for God's sake.
How did you get to be controller of the 7th sector or whatever the
hell you are?
What is he?
Yeah, good health.
Come on.
We have politicians who think getting a helicopter ride when they
have a car waiting for them is a pretty neat idea.
Great death.
Actually, he gets 2 appearances in Doctor 2 and 2 great debts.
Yeah.
Get shrunk, my friend.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
Of course.
I mean, that's so Bondi and that's he disagreed with something
that ate him.
Or Alan Rickman in Die Hard.
Mr. Yama Mertero won't be joining us for the rest of his life.
Do you know I've never seen Die Hard?
Neither should I. Neither have I. just seen the Alan Rickman
bits.
That's a good word, you see.
Maybe next Christmas.
It is a Christmas movie.
Yeah, no I know.
It's joining us under the coffee table.
It's getting damn proud of them.
Why would anyone ever leave Woolamaloo?
That's the question I asked.
And so yeah.
In universe.
That's why he left Woolamaloo.
Oh.
Action.
Sorry, she actually says sorry, Anos there.
And shot in the back.
Trolly acting.
So yeah, there...
Wasn't it weird?
Um, one thing Barry Letz does say about working on this and
something he he learned not to do was he kind of only shot as much
as he needed and that would, that does present a problem later in
this story, but that's why you get such sudden cuts.
And by the time he's directing in the Pertwee era, he's learned
okay, even if I think I finished the shot, just leave it for a few
seconds.
And we see that in Carnival of Monsters because there's an
extended cut of one of those episodes.
But yeah, that's why there's kind of a weird cut there because
Barry would call cut very, like he was a very energetic director
which comes as a surprise because he's such a, you know, calm
measure. super chilled, isn't he?
But apparently when he's directing, he's almost like Graham
Harper.
Um, And yet, they're being taken off for a week in Skegness.
Off you go.
Off you go, guys.
So let's direct.
Does he direct during the poetry era?
Terror of the Autons?
Carnival of Monsters.
Who does spiders?
He does spiders.
I think he does Time Monster.
Does he do green death?
Yeah.
No, Michael Bryant.
Does Green Death.
But yeah, you're thinking the inadvisable overuse of CSO in that
story.
No, he's a triple threat.
He a writer, director, producer.
Actor as well in his previous life.
Even more.
Was you?
Wait, are we getting towards the cliffhanger?
We are, and it's a sudden realisation.
Someone like you.
Yeah, again, another brilliant cliffhanger where someone learns
something.
Oh, exciting.
Now, salamander knows about the doctor.
Someone else, a double ganger.
Could be a, could be an auton.
Could be a robot replica.
And that's, uh, that could be something from, um, Stigron and the
crafts.
Why are they back?
Oh, they are a big finish.
Of course.
Oh, everybody's back with...
The aside and adventure.
Oh Barry, we love you.
That's where, yeah.
And we are back with episode four.
Is this thing on?
That thing is on.
Good.
It does feel like you're in a car wash, doesn't it?
It's that moment in the 67 Casino Royale when Mary Peach comes
over and presses her mouth against the windscreen wipers, while
you're having an important chat.
You know, even though I seen Casino Royale 3 times in the last 12
months, I'm not entirely convinced that doesn't happen in it
because it's the strangest movie ever made.
Isn't it also one of the best?
I was lucky enough to see it when I was 7 on TV and it was shown
every year.
Oh, hello.
We actually have been a lot like Desi Watling, and I'm not being
unkind.
It might just be the amount of makeup, the shape of the face, or
the panic, but in his case, he remembers his loans.
Sorry, I, I, I, I, I, I've never noticed Debbie stumbling over her
lines except the character.
Sorry, are they all just quoting Adele lines at each other?
someone like you.
Patience, Mr. when the sky falls, when it crumbles.
That's why we had a pre-filmed insert, of course, because in this
episode, Pat has to start as the doctor.
And you can already see his hair is more bouffon.
I thought that those bit looked like it was...
Yeah, it was a film. different quality?
Insert.
Better.
Have you noticed, Todd?
Because I know this is something that you have said about...
I know this is something that you've said about Pertwee before, but
have you noticed that Peter Capaldi's hair is getting more
involved before as he shows a lot?
It is quite amazing how I've been watching a bit of deep breath
and how short it is there, but how it's getting more wilder and
he's listening up as the doctor.
When he finishes, he's actually just going to be played by an
English sheet.
I'll have this hair.
Now, this is the reason the theory that the shot we saw in episode
2 of Giles and the doctor in his office was actually shot during
episode 4 to save erecting the set for episode 2 when it's already
in episode four. smart thing to do.
He's not happy.
So Guy Craven, there, isn't he?
And he's on an early moon base alpha communication station.
And industrial washing machine.
But it's all on the spin cycle at the moment, so it's just all
white and sun.
I love it when we're in the near future and we get words like
identity print.
Futuris.
I love all that.
I also love that so much of this is shot in the magic roundabout
caravan.
She does very good stoic face acting.
Look at my face, look at my face.
What was going to happen?
She wasn't going to be in episodes 5 and six.
Yeah, she was just going to disappear after this episode.
Because episodes 5 and six, she gets involved with the underground
dwellers.
Now, I...
I will say that I'm not...
Girl on Girl.
I'm not fond of Faria's raincoat.
The, her, her other costume is just lovely, lovely and light.
And even when Astrid puts on a coat of compliments, the other
thing.
She just looks like she's wearing a bin liner.
She's just come from the planet Phosphoron.
I like her Barbara homage booth.
Yes, yes.
It's just a lot of Bondi exposition, isn't it?
Two female characters actually talking to each other.
Yeah, they aren't talking about a man though, so...
But they will, I believe, go on to talk about plans, like his
plans, and I think under the Bechter rules that counts.
The official Bechdel, the board.
The board is ruled.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, they're, they're, along with all the, all the all the
liberal cucks.
God, I wish that was a wig.
Yeah, that's right, it's...
It is really unfortunate, but I guess he's bald, is he?
or something?
Reminds me of the valleyards skull cap with his hat.
That was the original revelation in Eric Saywood's trial part 14.
He was Bennick all along.
I was bennick all along.
Vanard, as I've always known him, Benick.
I love how they obviously can't afford a backdrop here and his
window, his gorgeous window just leads to a brick wall.
Is this a sense of the compartmentalisation that comes under
dictatorships, which we all place ourselves in smaller and smaller
boxes and try and manage in a rat's maze, smaller and smaller
things.
I think sand of the bingo.
So it's something similar about this story.
What's happening here in Sydney?
Well, very much so, or indeed in the world, and we can talk about
the trumpy things because this is so prescient, isn't it?
But there's the way that we deal with the larger threat is by
making our lives smaller and more compact and more manageable and
we shrink down to further and further.
And these tiny little peregrinations of arguments because it does
seem to be, you could say, okay, it's also plot fill.
But I think Sandov does talk about this, doesn't he?
I can't quite remember.
No, it has been a while.
Suck it in, Giles, come on.
Yeah, I know, it's really not doing anything for him, is he?
In the script, but not revealed in dialogue, I believe.
The blackmail related to Fourier's brother.
Whom Salamander had had killed but still had information on him
that would damage her and her family if he revealed it.
So she's working for him in memory of her brother.
I quite like that we don't find out.
We don't have to find out.
Yeah Oh, look how charming.
I'll get the back.
I think we could actually get what the doctor in this is on about
not interfering.
When he does interfere, as you say, on planet Zog, it's fair or
complete.
We don't know the history of the place that you could argue
neither does he, but it's that he has no other choice.
It is so obviously gone wrong.
And here he's, I really, he really doesn't get involved with
politics.
He has always run the other way up until now.
I do think, like, I think it's obviously stalling in a way, but it
does give us the chance to see, you know, everyone else and the
rest of the world and give everyone, like, gives him a chance to
be Salamander, gives us him a chance to, you know, gives us a
chance to see what's going on in the rest of the world.
Um, Do you not also think, though, it shows just how circumspect
the doctor actually is and that he's more noble because of that.
And that when we do see him jump right in and and defeat the
cosmic, villainous, chompy things.
It's.
Does he normally construct for himself a sort of band of outsiders
who then, you know, I'm thinking about.
He is a bit passive, aggressive.
Well, you know, I'm thinking about the invasion where, you know
there ends up being just a little group of people, like his
friends and unit and things who then go in and sort of solve the
problem.
Um, because they, it's a displacement to the cyber personages
should not be here.
In this case, he will put, this is what he said, you know, he
hasn't stopped the 2nd World War.
He didn't stop.
We could go on Because it's part of the natural events of
history.
He didn't kill the Daleks off because, well, he might not.
We don't know that's going to happen yet because we're only not in
during 2017.
Yeah, but I mean, there is dialogue coming up saying that I was, I
just knew that Giles Kent was a bad guy and that's, that's what I
was kind of waiting for.
Yeah, because that's the thing.
Like, you know, in 21st century, Doctor Who, we do.
Tell all men. to shoot on site.
And they do.
Joe Wharton did scripted this, didn't he?
I didn't mean that.
Yeah, but it worked.
I actually really like this set and this whole sequence, I think
is really, really good.
And it's kind of like, it's cleverly shot, like, you know, for
interior looking at the window and all that sort of thing.
Yeah, there's a sense of space, you know.
Look, up there.
This is really...
Look out there too.
Another thing.
Oh no, this is terrific.
They push that baby off them.
Oh, this is, oh, how fantastic.
Some days you can't get rid of a bomb.
No, that shot with the, with the, with the, it's, um, God, what is
it?
Potemkin?
Ventilator sharks.
Yes, yes, battleship per tem.
Yes, the steps.
Which is amazing.
She was just passing through and refused to get out of shop.
No, no, no, that was planned.
But no, you're right. battleship attempt. picking up on those
fantastic.
Yeah.
Yeah, this is all very, very messy, clever.
But yeah, those exteriors were recorded at Villiers house, which
is the BBC building that years later when it was being
decommissioned.
They were clearing out a cupboard and found 4 episodes of the Ice
Warriors just sitting in a cupboard.
Billy's house.
Someone probably left them here while they were shooting that.
Yeah maybe.
But yeah, it's the episodes we now have one, four, 5, and six.
Oh, you kicked me in the balls.
Well, she grabbed him by the hand.
Get the Avengers girl.
Get a girl who can do both.
Kick you in the ball.
She had just been in the running for the...
Well, actually, before she she auditioned for the an appeal
character.
She was in the last 5 couch.
She was kind of 5 with Nari Dawn Porter.
Um, this was after um, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Shepard.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, because they'd always wanted Diary Dawn Porter.
Elizabeth Sladden was passed on, yes.
Is she in other things?
Mary Peach.
I think much like, um, there she is.
She's impeached cobbler, which was a hilarious send-up.
She's in James and the...
Giant Mary P.
The daughter of Bill Peach, who only our Australian.
Oh, no.
Oh.
That's horrid.
But she's fabulous in this too, isn't she?
She's seen it.
Looks like she's not enjoying it.
And it's like a horrible mistake. you know, like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And but Bennett comes along and she even sort of, Like she beats
him.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's...
It's it's amazingly adult.
Yeah, this is this really is.
Not the Doctor Who has ever just been for kids, but...
The criticisms that Baker's series Comm Baker series gets, this is
just as bad.
No, I don't think it's...
I think it's just that old and nasty.
No, no, adult and adult is one thing.
Oh, did I think that Milton's being a bit nasty right now?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But look at her.
Look how triumphant she is.
Yes, but we're talking about how a child is going to receive this
scene.
Yeah, I mean, it's still all cops and robbers.
There's no guns.
I have no guns.
There's no guns.
There's no blood or anything.
I finally saw vengeance on Baros this year.
I'd never seen it all the way through.
I have to say, Colin does not push people into the acid bath.
He really isn't or the doctor anyway.
It really isn't as monstrous as the received wisdom habit.
Todd's nodding furiously.
Yeah, I talked to you, yeah.
Oh, what's it?
idiot.
I'll say this so sad.
The moment she gets shot, I think she's pretty weak when she
collapses.
I don't like that moment.
But that final triumphant, I really like that confrontation with
Bennett.
I think I need to go and watch her again with some sound on it.
Well, that well, that's the thing.
I mean, all 4 of us have, even in the course of our recordings
when we're discussing something, gotten new appreciations for
things, things we think are awful.
Black Orchid is still the bottom of my list.
I actually I actually came up with a bottom 10 the other week, a
black orchid.
Number one.
With a bullet. hang on.
Is he wearing Missy's clasp?
He was missing all along.
Listeners, I apologise.
You're about to hear me eat a cookie.
Carry on, Richard.
You want to hear this?
Holy.
How are we feeling about... slower progress.
But no one is, no one is breaking the rules here or the 4th wall
or the tension.
I, I, I'm thoroughly believing all of this code because, my God.
Milton Johns is just a monster, isn't he?
It's a strange performance too, isn't it?
I think it's the most believable in the whole in the whole lot of
them.
Even more so than Perth. here we go.
Now suddenly the story's going to take a sort of crazy, crazy left
turn.
But I do like that the people are always encased in this, in this
case, in us, you know, lovely big thermo mixer with a monitor on
it.
Yeah, this is gorgeous too, and he's got them right under the
office.
It's superb.
The reconstruction of this, and the woman's name always escapes me
unfortunately.
She's a great computer animator.
She does the cybermen stuff for the wheel in space
reconstruction.
We were talking about that before.
It's really good.
But for this, because we've got all this waiting for this pod to
come out.
She does this amazing animation where salamander's getting
impatient and tapping his foot and pacing about because there's
very little visual reference for this scene.
And then when we get it, it's just bloody Patrick Troughton
standing on the spot. like, come on, Pat.
Is this from the reconstruction?
Yes.
Oh, really?
Do you know, I don't think I've ever seen them.
I think the 1st time I saw it was after this, you know, it was
fun.
As I say, I forget her name, but she's the one who did the wheel
in space and did that wonderful alien inspired trailer using all
her animations for the wheel in space.
Yeah, terribly good.
They were gorgeous, yes.
Oh, no, that is fantastic.
Look at that.
And there's a great model shot?
Is it a model shot?
Yeah, there's a model shot coming up.
Oh, Patrick's holding on for dear life.
Honda bird does he get ejected into?
Thunderbird Swan?
Meanwhile, on film.
Oh, isn't that awesome?
Yeah. wonderful.
Oh, it's virtual. all the time.
No, that really is very impressive.
Well, of course, this was the year after Thunderbirds.
The movie, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I think this was the same year as Thunderbird 6, 1968.
Yeah, which no one ever saw.
Because we're in 1968 now.
Ever.
Rod loves Thunderbirds, and he hates the end of Thunderbirds 6
everyone does.
It was a biplane all the time.
Has nobody actually ever...
Questioned this before.
Like, you know, obviously some Amanda goes down his little chute
quite often.
But then all these people are something around here going, well
can I see him?
No, I can't.
Like, where have they been for the last?
It just gives them a nice opportunity to tweet from his phone, you
see.
Yeah, something sensible.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
This is, I think, Sandoval was touching on the, this, the, the
people down there are the listeners.
And if you want to look at it politically, the boaters.
Yeah, they're English people, aren't they?
Just normally with a nice white folk from the sitcoms and we've
been thrown into this quasi bond film that's about, that's
actually upstairs is about the, you know, the ostensible reality
but the reality of the viewer, other people in the bunker
downstairs being fed dross and believing everything they're told.
It's so strange.
Bowie song, isn't it?
Full Bowie.
I love this set too.
Oh, no, that's what we need.
Dalek bump wallpaper.
Yes, they're etheric beam locations, apparently.
And now he has a 3rd hairstyle.
And outfit.
I suppose maybe the reason Pat enjoyed doing this so much, even
though he was so tired.
Remember, when he became the doctor, he actually wanted to play
him, even, yeah, there's the blacked up idea he had, but even when
that was vetoed, he still said, you know, heavy makeup, fake
moustaches, fake eyebrows, he loved disguising himself the less
that would get him recognised the better.
By his other wives.
Now, this guy here has been in Doctor Who after this.
Yes, he's in Terror of the Autons.
Professor Phillips?
Ah, Goodjin Phillips, RFC.
Barry Letts, yes, re-employed them.
And he's in Planet of the Spiders.
He's Lupton's officer.
Oh, yes, of course, that wonderful guy who, when Lupton has his
big rant about everything he wants, he says, I just want peace of
mind.
Here they are. stupid.
The dynamic duo destroying.
What's that?
Poland and Bloody Mary.
Colin Mary, bless you.
Oh, he's fantastic.
The gentleman right here.
Colin, also a big chair. of time.
That's how people call Colin Speak in Doctor Who, if you've seen
Arc of Infinity.
Did you say he's an invasion of time, Richard?
Yes, he plays the deck chair beside the title.
That's fantastic.
Oh, go away to see the sun...
You know who these two?
Mary, Mary.
That's the splash shot.
Leonard, I'm not going to leave you.
Sorry.
These 2 retroactively remind me of the Armageddon factor.
Men out there.
Young men are dying for it.
Exactly.
Binky Huckabatch. and Dame Celia Maltstrangle.
Who are these actors, by the way?
Do you know?
Do we know?
Yes, so this actor on screen right now is...
Christopher Burgess.
That's it.
And he, he passed away not long after, um, Biss.
Not long. not long after the story was recovered.
I think when the recovery was announced, I should say, because I
remember.
It sort of came it came out about a month before we recorded our
podcast and he passed away between for 2 days.
Colin is played by Adam Verney.
And Mary is played by Margaret Hickey.
Vernie and Hickey.
You know what?
I am gonna journey.
Isn't that a name of like Tegan's grandfather?
Yes, all the time.
Well, maybe related to Tegan.
But then he's mysteriously disappeared, another one of her
problems.
That's why this is perfect because they are playing the John and
Marcia characters from all the soaps.
That's why she's called Mary.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's the most generic kind of name they can imagine.
I do love that they're wearing sort of hilarious.
Where else did we have these?
Was it ice Warriors that everyone's wearing these?
Resort futurology?
Yeah, yeah.
So Adam Verney, who is Colin...
Oh, thank goodness.
Kool-Aid.
As 10 credits to his name, including 3 episodes of Doctor in the
House.
I love that show.
I think we should all dress in these outfits for next Mardi Gras
actually.
Well, Brendan does anyway.
I didn't know as the files were coming back.
And as for Margaret Hickey, let's look her up on internet movie
database, because the funny thing is sometimes these...
Please don't tell me they acted again.
Yeah, the next suck was named after her.
She had a pretty brutal career. at least as far as the rest of the
cast were concerned.
Okay, Margaret Hickey.
It was like when we found out that Kendron was in a bond film.
Kendron.
Oh, God.
So Adam Verney has 10 credits to his name.
Margaret Hickey has won.
Oh, this is her...
And what did she do after that?
She became a brain surgeon or something, an astronaut, possibly.
Let's find out.
Actually, I think she's...
She reminds me of that girl off the Harry Potter movies, the...
Luna Lovegood.
Yes.
She does.
Or anyone on Crystal Myth.
Maybe she was cryogenically frozen until like 2007.
I love that.
Margaret Hickey was an actress known for Doctor Who.
She died on June the 1st, 2010.
Oh, that's it.
That's it.
That's the extent.
I think it's time we added...
A full an event for life.
Come on.
Write in with your suggestions.
I'm editing IMDb as we speak.
Todd, B or B thinks, she's awful.
Brilliant.
We could have a hashtag, couldn't we?
I've got Vernie's career.
Margaret Hickey's career.
Do you think any of our dear descended relatives on any...
Oh, this is the family will be listening to this when we've all
carved it and go, oh, gee, that would have such a legacy.
No, Bruce Forsyte was in this.
I think the potential for us having descendants is very low.
Well, I was saying relatives.
That's actually not a bad thing.
I mean, I'm sorry, like all those old men, like as if they're
going to repopulate the air.
Like, you know, they all need to be Collins.
Well, actually, it looks like the oldest woman there is about 40.
So it's it's the whole Donald and Ivanka thing.
Do you think?
Oh, wait, sorry, Melania.
No, you meant his daughter, the one that he says.
Actually, yeah, fair enough.
I'm just going have a wank.
Salamander.
They're used to it though.
Jana Panda was a dishonour.
The designer of this was Martin Martin Bo or Martin Boff?
how that pronounced.
But he does the ice Warriors as well with their psychedelic
outfits.
He does quite a few pats.
I love this.
He's just off and away on a cigar.
No, but he said it was.
It's a thing.
It's a it's a chiquito.
No bad happens here.
You can actually see him being in a bar like with a drink and a
cigar in real life, can't you?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, wonderful Astrid's doing his makeup.
Turning him into a monoid.
It's Eric Saywood.
Do you look like a spotlight photo, dude?
The thing, for motivation, Pat did actually look through his old
spotlight photos and said to the makeup designer, make me look
like this because he's like salamander is young and vital.
And oh, Cliffhanger.
Is that the 1st time it's got slash salamander?
Yeah, the ones that just says...
Yeah.
But yeah, Pat did look through his 50s photos and found one.
I think from when he was doing Shakespeare, where he had like a
bit of, not blacked up, but a bit of tang.
And he said, here's the one.
Margaret, we love you, Margaret.
Me too.
Margaret.
Not back next week after.
Christopher Pem soul, yes.
Salamander's come down the chute, Margaret.
Margaret.
George and Margaret.
I heard they're going to be in the new series.
Colin and Mary this season coming.
Here we go again.
Episode 5.
I'm sorry, they always look like claws like opening. gorgeous
isn't it?
No, I just think that was the listener's reaction.
I'm so glad we've all reached a consolidation to only do 6
partners.
So the Pete one is going to be Black Orchid.
Are you excited?
Oh, none of you are going to get a word in Edgway.
You know that thing I did?
We've already done a Pete one.
Well, yeah, we did 5 doctors, but we're going to do a proper Pete
one.
Okay, black orchid.
What's the other one?
I just realised this...
Things demons.
See the other ones for nominating.
All 3 of them.
There's, I just, I just realised there's no rules to say you can't
all nominate Black Hawk.
That'd be fun.
No, that is actually my official choice.
Is the 3 two-parters back to back.
Yeah, my official choice is season 20.
We can have a running body count, Todd, and we can go, oh, he's
dead.
Oh no, he's alive. zero.
Still zero.
Shit.
No, we'll just watch Arc of Infinity full-time, though.
There is a New Zealand podcast.
I think it's called the worst idea in the world where they do a
podcast on the same movie every week, but I can't remember the
movie.
They mentioned it on the flop house.
It's like one bad movie.
Hold on. just look it up.
It's called the worst the worst idea in the world.
That's ridiculous. couldn't possibly do that.
Why?
Look at Pat.
Dressed to salamander.
That's gorgeous, isn't it?
And again, he's measuring his own meta.
Wonderful.
As Mary Pete showing that her jawline is still bigger than a
week.
And her collar, actually. sticking out.
There it is.
And this is what episode five.
So she wasn't going to be in this.
Yeah, so I imagine that Kent in the original draft just brought
him there alone.
Right.
Would she have been killed off in that room?
Yes.
No, she, according to, according to Barry and Mary, in the
original script, she just disappears.
Like, it's like, you go off and do this.
Oh, they do that, don't they, in the war games with lady, whatever
name is?
Yeah, Lady Jennifer Buckingham, who's wonderful.
I miss her terribly.
Even now I wish that she would be in things.
She's running for the green.
How did we do?
Why didn't we do the war games?
We didn't nominate that, did we?
No.
I did suggest.
You know, I actually really like this scene because I think Bruce
is terrific.
You know, just that Bruce is another one of those characters like
Cree Song in, um, the, abominable snowman, where he seems like a
sort of harsh, um, inflexible, horrible character, but ends up
being very kind of honourable and sensible.
And in fact, the kind of the kind of figure that children really
do gravitate to because they are, there is an air of authority and
predictability and rationality.
So in fact, they do become the moral centre of drama.
It is interesting.
He's painted as a bad guy at the beginning, but it all shifts.
Yeah, yeah, he's the marginalia of reason in this.
Everyone else is flying off centre, but he's the centre of the
flower.
We also, um, said that about Brazen as well, in Brontios.
Yeah, season seems like a horrible person, but...
Oh, she's got the more teen can now.
It's not going to go well.
He's not impressed.
It's a Colin Baker look.
So the worst idea of all time.
Yes.
They're up to their 3rd year.
So they watch the same movie.
Hey, Jamie and Victoria back from holiday there, but they're still
asleep, the lazy buggers.
They watch the same week, the same movie once a week for 52 weeks
and do a weekly podcast.
So they've done grown-ups too.
What's that?
Seth Rogan.
I think, kind of new...
Bro comedy.
Sex and the City 2.
They've done for 52 weeks and they're currently in the middle of
doing a film called We Are Your Friends, which I don't know about
but I think it might have Tina Fey in it.
Well, please never, ever get the idea that we're going to watch
the same doctor.
What would it be?
The twin dilemma.
Even I will veto that.
Black Orchid.
Well, at least...
The trial of a timelord.
Yeah, I'd have to give up my job though, I think, probably.
Oh dear.
Oh, no.
No, to be, um, what's that story?
I can't stand.
Season 24.
Delta and the Banner.
Correct.
That would be...
I've watched you enjoying Delta.
You say that every time, Nathan, and I refuse to believe that I
ever liked any of it.
And the good thing is, you're not going to be on that episode.
So we can say it again.
No, but earlier on, when we were talking about how serious Milton
John's is Bennick, he actually kind of reminds me of Gavrock from
Delta and the Batman, because Gav...
This is a gorgeous moment.
And that to me is what the doctor's always about.
Hand them back their instruments.
And it's really good when Pete does it as well.
Don Henderson as Gavrock plays it so deadly straight that you
believe in him as a villain when it's quite frankly a ridiculous
but enjoyable the rest.
The rest of it's a cartoon.
Yeah.
This...
It does look like...
It's a James Bond romp.
And as we've discussed on Bondfinger, it's okay to have comedy in
Bond films, but you have to have the villain being serious.
It's the, yeah, it's the whole abfab season one to the rest of the
series thing.
You have to believe in your own characters or the whole thing
falls apart.
So the whole thing can be a fast, but you must believe in your own
performance.
Yeah.
And, and, and...
And the lovely thing, Billy and Pat.
And John, well, John up to a certain point, always held to that.
Tom didn't.
No.
And I don't think Pete does all the time as well because we've
discussed that...
Yeah, I think I was going to say after Tom, the rules all go out
of the... anyway, but I think I think Colin does.
Colin stays very true to his performance and Sylvester, once he
figures out what his performance is, tries to as well.
I think this will be an interesting discussion for the end of the
podcast series. which I know the listeners are waiting for with
Bait and Grey.
I watch that girl.
Oh yeah, go on.
Watch that girl.
It's um, it's, it could so easily be fast, but and it is fast, but
I love that they keep lampooning the fast with drama.
This is actually an inversion of the comedic trope.
Did we mention that yet?
But, yeah, no, a comedy celebrates itself as a comedy.
This is a drama celebrating itself as a drama by laughing at it.
Oh, these 2 Yeah, they are wonderful.
Didn't he actually, isn't isn't he also an axon?
No, no, that's not Bernard Holly.
No, he just feels sort of plastic.
Well, just, just, yeah.
If if you scrubble the gold off him.
Was that mail axe on ever in Doctor Who again?
Bernard Holly.
He had been in Doctor Who previously.
He, he, um, he is in Tomb of the Sidemen.
Yeah, he's a true artist because his buttocks follow you around
the screen.
There's some...
There's a rather charming DVD special feature.
I don't know which it is, but it's the one all about action
figures, and someone chose Bernard Holly, his axon action figure
and he is so chuffed that someone's made a toy of him.
Like, he's really just sweet and charming.
Oh, I had a good body then, didn't he?
He pretty much says that, yeah.
So who's preparing all this food?
Is it the guy in the kitchen?
Like, you know?
Is it Griffin?
to Australia?
No, but where does, like, Salamand has to organise all this
stuff.
He must have someone.
Well, I suppose he's just kind of sending him tinned peaches and
things.
So he, you know, he just gets a bulk by...
Yeah, we have Costco here now. sad face.
No, we think you are.
But I like that we, did you just say they didn't let people
think?
Yes, you do.
How prescient?
Sightless worms.
It's got to be intentional.
Of course it is.
Yeah, deliberately like wet and ridiculous.
See, I think this might be a little...
It's I think this is a gentle lampooning of the anti-war
movement.
Whereas the dominators is, if you don't like, well, we're going to
put you in a dress because you're stupid.
And you'll be killed.
Yes.
This is written with great intelligence and the other one may not
be.
Yeah Yeah.
Oh, well, and I just think Whitaker is vastly less nasty than...
Yeah, Hazman and Lincoln.
And that's the thing.
I think he's not presenting.
If Colin and Mary are sort of anti-war student revolutionary type
characters, He's not presenting them as stupid, he's presenting
them as naive.
Well, feckless at worst.
Yeah, but the thing is, meat is fragile. meat fragile.
It's in glass jars.
Oh no.
It's the app.
Oh, brilliant.
It's the newspaper.
But it's a beautiful inversion as well, because they have no
internet, do they?
No, but he's just about to learn that Adele has released a new
album.
Well, that La La Land is...
It's a lie.
Salamander, I'm going to let you finish, but Moonlight was the
best picture of 2016.
Do you know how that Oscar gate happened, don't you?
They have been for a story.
I've spoken to each other for years. literally years, Beatty and
Dunaway. they fought all day.
Who was going to pretend?
Two cats in a Hishing sack.
And the guy who was handing out the envelopes left of stage was
tweeting, it's so trumpy and tweeting constantly, and because he
was so busy on Twitter, he gave the wrong envelope.
He was handed out and it said best actress, Lala, which is why
which is why Baiti, everyone thought he was sticking.
Yeah.
And he he handed it to, he just, and he was saying, what the
hell?
had it to Dunaway and threw her under the bus.
Well, the thing is, I've watched that, though, and he does sort of
give her a look as if to silently say, hold on, is this right?
No. no?
But they both don't have their contacts lenses in.
They can only see the big font.
Well, in fact, she, yeah, no, he's really... anyway, we're getting
off track, aren't we?
There was a brilliant article about the typography of those pieces
of paper and the fact that best actresses written in tiny letters
down the bottom of that.
I just love how salamander manages to convince him or almost
convince him that these horrible nuclear mutants on the surface
have pleasure.
Have a lovely holiday.
They're deformed in mind and body.
It's the inverse of Futurama.
On those cruises, yeah. you know, cruise lines.
I thought you were going to say one of those doctors.
I haven't been on an Atlantis cruise, but I do have to wonder.
Yeah, terribly devoid of all feeling, hope.
You know, I did love love boats.
Love both the next wave though.
I was a huge fan of that.
How long did that go?
10 episodes?
Not the next wave.
Did I remember?
I think it did 2 seasons.
I know that I know that New Fantasy Island with Malcolm McDowell
didn't do very well.
And all of that is happening on the surface right now.
I think I'd rather be down there with the fabulous Darlic
Bullpaper.
See, this is okay.
Like, it's salamander and this guy is good.
This one is good.
Yeah, yeah, Christopher Bird. get back into the room of the
special people.
It's all a bit special, really. to feel that about the special
people.
It's strange, special.
Because we do see him duping people upstairs and now we see him
duping people in a different environment.
That is quite amazing how much time he's now spending down here.
Yeah, you know?
Well, now that we've had the reveal.
It might have been interesting to hear that Salamander was off in
the records room and that's why you can't be in this bit maybe a
bit earlier.
But it is also just an amazing kind of strange switch to how the
story works.
And it does keep it going.
It's a bit genius.
Isn't it interesting that they were right?
Well, they weren't quite in the middle.
We are looking at our current predicament.
They were looking back to the 2nd World War and saying, you know
this has happened.
We must never let it happen again.
We're right here now watching it.
How's your research going, Brendan?
Well, um, love boat the next wave, and ran for 2 seasons of 25
episodes.
A total of 25 episodes.
Oh, only?
Yep.
Fent...
I know Robert Yuri.
Oh, I didn't look up the cast, but I will in a moment.
New Fantasy Island just called Fantasy Island, led by Malcolm
McDowell, 13 episodes.
Michael McDowell.
Do you know, I would kill to watch the love boat again.
Why isn't that on Netflix?
It, you know, it, Richard, it took me 3 seasons to figure out that
Murray from...
Mary Tyler Moore was Captain Stubing.
Because he finally loses all that weighty yo-yos in...
Wait, wait, Collins, Collins...
Colin's doing some acting.
Here we go.
Take me with you.
Don't touch the wallpaper, your dentist.
Does he die?
I've forgotten.
Do these people die?
Because I'm wishing so.
Just wait.
Actually, it's really funny.
I forgot and see what happens to.
You won't believe you get out of here.
We want you to get out of here.
You could park a speedboat in his mouth.
Raising.
We doing phrasing?
It seems like ever since we've seen Victoria and Jamie, but aren't
we about to get her moment?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, and he's really frightening.
You know, every time he walks into a room, you think it could be a
cliffhanger.
He's just that good.
He really does feel like Teresa May with mystectomy, doesn't he?
Yeah.
It's not a sight I wanted to have. we don't we don't body shame
people, but even Jeremy Hardy, I think, said this week.
It is like watching an animated corpse whenever Theresa may
presume.
So to speak, phrasing.
Dead inside.
No.
Oh, look at that love.
Wonderful.
Fabulous.
And there's no mirth in it at all.
No, not in English teeth.
No. resistance.
Boy.
Vim.
I wonder how long you'll last.
Oh, wandering.
Seriously, can we discuss whether we're doing freezer?
10, perhaps, really?
That's optimistic, surely.
Oh, good grief.
This is filth.
Oh, goodness.
That's so terrifying.
I want grunting too.
Look at him.
He's really really good.
And filthy.
Well, what's he doing to?
Oh, not much.
And he's just got this, like, he can freeze parts of his face.
Like he just freezes his eyes and everything else.
B Botox, yeah.
Yeah.
He never really got to be a villain properly again, did he?
He was always just like sidekick. to the villain.
But I think that...
I think that's kind of good though, because he plays 3 parts in
Doctor Who and he shows different parts of his range in each.
Like Kelner, you know, starts off really efficient and then
becomes a toady.
But no, he's always a bit kind of oleaginous, I think, at the, like
even towards the doctor when the doctor's being a weirdo.
Veronica Vimpus?
There's the problem with the... with the subtitle.
I think that was maybe one of her other stage names we never heard
about.
I did say at the beginning you could be watching the DVD, but I
have a feeling the DVD subtitles probably don't screw that up.
Who knows?
Brigadoon.
I think that's what this episode should be cool.
This is horrible, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's, it's, it is as, as dire as anything that season 22 manages.
Well, there's a bit less cannibalism in this than in the season.
Or so far.
We don't know what the fragile meat was.
I mean, you know, Drew Barham, Mary's brother.
Milton John's is strictly a set of ore.
He's not happy.
Yeah, here comes.
I agree with you, Todd. is absolutely one of Victoria's finest
moments.
The doctor's being a bit mean here, though.
Why is he doing this?
Well, he's doing it to convince... he's got to show Bruce, yeah.
Yeah, Bruce.
Call to us.
Yeah, Jamie doesn't step up.
No, he has to prove too.
Yeah, yeah, he has to catch up to Victoria, which is a, is a, it's
an element of his character that comes a lot more to the 4 with
Zoe.
He's constantly competing with Zoe.
Yeah, which is rather sweet.
That lovely scene when they're on the machines in the Crotons, I
think, is just spectacular.
Yeah, she's doing a good job here isn't she?
I think she's terrific.
It is, she is rarely given much to do.
And in the previous story, of course, there was lots of her
running around being menaced.
Yeah, Todd, does this influence your received opinion to the fan
base of the character of Victoria?
She's my least favourite.
Just, doesn't it, um, doesn't it elevate?
Trouton companion.
By far, but that is a fantastic moment.
And that's not Debbie's fault, you know?
No, I agree.
She rises to this, but I just don't I love her in this.
Victoria's whining and screaming and being put in peril all the
time.
But I'm finding Perry...
It's kind of written the same way.
Yeah, I think so too.
But I think I think there is a season 5 problem as well as just a
Victoria problem.
The same story over and over again.
Yeah, very much so.
Same here.
Well, here there's something different to do.
Oh, and slosh it all about. swine, you swine.
Um, as you said, way back when we when we 1st covered these
Richard.
And part of that formula problem is it means, you know, the doctor
gets to do the clever eccentric things, Jamie gets to punch people
in the face and Victoria gets to scream at people.
And the actors really try to do more with it.
But yeah, unfortunately, as much as, you know, watching these and
watching the recons gave me a new appreciation of Victoria, I have
to agree with you, Todd.
I think she's my least favourite trout and companion because
watching the recons with Ben and Polly, I found how just how much
character they jammed into those two.
I really like them.
But it's a hard choice because they're pretty much all good.
You know, it's not like who's your least favourite heart or
companion, Dodo.
Yeah.
Yeah, she's pretty dumb.
Yeah.
I mean, you could you could say the Ormolu clock could be.
She's in some really terrible stories, though.
She's great in gunfighters.
Shockers.
Yeah, she's great in gunfighters.
But you're implementable in the celestial joy maker.
I mean, that is so awful.
No one comes out of that coveting glory.
Gary Russell still likes celestial.
Some people do.
Gary Russell likes you to a kill.
And he hates the spy who love me.
And Dr. Pussy.
Enough.
We're back with Mary in the security caravan.
Um, young Brandon, font of all Wiz and Dom.
What's um, he's not very Dom, but he's quite whiz.
What's your what's your take on Mary Peach's glittering career?
Um, I'm actually quite surprised that film.
I don't know her from other things.
Yeah, exactly.
And we know most of the gills of this era, don't we?
Yeah, she's game girl.
She should do a lot more stuff on stage or other British shows
that I just don't know.
I looked around.
I'll look her up again.
I did look her up earlier, but she was after this primarily a film
actress.
Right.
In other words, she actually managed to get a career after Doctor
Who, which doesn't happen to many girls.
No, but you can see why it would, though.
Well, that's what she was up for, yeah.
She really, she was trying to get into the bond pictures and she
never did, did she?
Yeah, one of her most famous roles was in the 1970 Scrooge film.
Right.
The famous one with was it Albert Finney?
Oh, the musical.
Yeah.
What is she in that?
Do you know that?
I watch it.
That's my favourite version of Scrooge.
Oh, really?
We watch it as kids. and so whenever it was on Wednesday. joy
isn't he?
Watch that.
That's terribly sweet.
Um, she was Marianne Lewis in Disraeli.
Mm, the Disraeli series.
Did we ever see Pat Trouton play Disraeli?
I keep feeling I did once.
She's not got a big part in Scrooge.
She's Fred's wife.
So when you see Fred, I don't even remember Fred.
But, you know, she did, she did films.
She did plays for today, but yeah, I don't think, except possibly
for that Disraeli miniseries that she ever had a big regular
role.
It was always small.
Well, sorry, it was always the guest role in something else.
She have kids?
Look, I'm about to bash someone's head in with a big lead pipe.
Quite right too.
Oh is he dead?
No, it's all tomato sauce.
And it is actually tomato sauce, which is hilarious.
So I was just distracted.
Strike the gun.
Oh, this is great, isn't it?
Someone's not being very...
Richard, have you written this entry on IMDb?
Sturdy, attractive blonde British actress.
Oh, we're back on location.
The most backhanded compliment you can possibly get.
Yeah, Hartnell's entry, isn't it?
Best known as Rock Hudson's wife who must cope with being the
spouse of a military man. and homosexual in a gathering of
eagles.
Fancy.
Now we're about to come up to the cliffhanger.
Is she on location here or back in studio?
No, she's back in she's back in the studio.
But this is we're getting up to the cliffhanger, aren't we?
Yeah, so she's going to wander for a bit.
And then Salamander's gonna...
Oh, yeah.
It's another one of these sort of...
Yeah, conceptual. we already know what she's about to find out.
So the rest of her career, yeah.
Yeah, that's...
Is she going to react?
Now that these 2 halves of the story have finally collided.
Which I think in storytelling terms, it's called dramatic irony.
When the audience knows something that the characters don't know
yet.
A lovely simulac, this movement through the brush is also her fear
and horror of, oh, hello.
Swan.
It is, the dying swan.
Not the black one.
Salamander.
That's a great.
Not the slashes back.
I'm sorry terrific story.
This is delicious.
I hope you're watching it on your iPhone on the train while you're
heading off to school or whatever it is you do.
No, yeah, I'm just...
There's surprises at the end.
Now, I'm just thinking ahead to what Astra does in the last
episode.
And I'm seeing that, you know what?
Yeah.
The last 2 episodes would still function in much the same way.
Astrid's kind of given a separate plot thread, which runs
alongside, you know, finding Swan and whatnot.
But the thing is, as we will discover in the next episode, Kent
already knows about the underground thing.
So it's a very clever thing that Barry and the production team
have done.
Spoilt it for me.
Since we're bleeding right in.
This is in Lloyd's last go, isn't it?
Yes, Peter Bryant becomes producer from next door.
And it's partly because Innisloyd started... thought that the
tenure had been something of a failure, and he was trying all the
same things that J and T was trying with guest stars and new
ideas.
I think he was missing.
What was his 1st story?
Is it celestial toymaker or somewhere around there?
We want to sub blame him for it.
It's, it's, it's, it is, yeah, end of, end of...
This acts the end of Billy.
End of Billy.
It's towards the end of Billy, but is it war machines or is it the
one before?
Or the savages?
I think it might be the savages actually.
But the handover, you're right, Todd. was around that point, so.
So he's been on the show, like, a good 20 months.
Yeah, well, really, it's such an interesting point to go because
we're getting the beginning of the let's, the unofficial beginning
of a let's era.
And it feels so much like, I mean, the pace of it's a pertway
story.
Well, this is Let's, but I think the Let's era is still a little
way off.
No, no, but I mean the sense of it and the pace of it because it's
remarkedly different from even early season four.
Yeah, you're right.
He ran from the celestial toy maker through to enemy of the
world.
Although Celestial Toymaker was the typical thing then of the
time.
I love we don't know how long he's been there.
That feels like it could have been the cliffhanger.
How did she get him down into the cave?
Because she's dragged dragged him by the head wound.
She used her hair.
Tomb of the Cybermen was produced by Peter Bryant as a test piece
for him to then take over.
Um, But I don't, I think his reinvention of the show was a great
success, but I think you're right, Richard.
He got out at the right time because he'd introduced this formula
and it's, yeah, it's pretty telling that even when we get to the
Barry Letts era and there's a formula of where on earth.
That's really the only commonality between the earth stories.
It's not the same beats every week.
I don't get bored.
Yeah.
Do you talk?
Well, later on.
Well, the patchwear is forever evolving and changing.
Like, you know, every season from the start to the finish. even
within stories.
Whereas here the, well, not with this story, but with all the ones
around, this really from, you know, there's that sameness
about...
I think season 6 is a bit more experimental, even though it failed
sometimes.
Different producer.
Yeah, it's.
It's kind of funny, really, that good shot.
Season 5 this season, you don't get the saminess if you dip in and
out of Doctor Who like we have for a lot of our lives, but yeah
sitting down to watch it all together, kind of by the time you get
to Webber Fear, you're just like, oh, God, again?
Again, with the robots.
But you watch them in...
You watch them individually.
Perhaps.
It seems away from me.
Perhaps if you say picked out a story by chance using the
randomiser.net and happened to get...
That was the randomiser.net.
And, you know, you just happen to get those stories.
It's kind of funny that it's not made for the video era, but this
season works really well in the video era. beautifully, doesn't
it?
Well, because it understands cereal, at which developed for cinema
week by week, people go along a Saturday afternoon, watch
something exactly like this.
But, you know, at the same time, we're watching it as critical
adults.
I think the 8 to 10 year olds would have just lapped it up without
thinking, oh, this you know, but this is where the aliens invaded
last month.
I mean, you would have had great appreciation for this having
watched this at 10 because we all had feelings about underworld
didn't we, Tom?
Bleeding from the ears.
Naughty pants.
Oh, good on you.
You've kept me on hold for 10 minutes now.
I'm never using butter.
I want some Kentucky fried chicken and...
Hello, who's that?
Zoe?
Oh, you're coming soon.
You're not listening.
Plenty of public funds, you dirty.
No, I've seen your postcards.
Public phones in 2017.
Because not because it's a lovely alternate history and apps were
banned along with mobiles.
And you know what?
It's probably the greatest vision for the future.
There'd be no Twittering if they want to know that on mobile
phone.
But you get bored at the bus stop.
No, we could just have buses for each other, so we can just...
I do love that Nokia are bringing back the 3310 and it's just a
texting and phone device with snake.
We won't get it here, though, because it's 2G only, and our last
2G networks are being switched off in October.
It's kind of beautiful, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. 4 days before charging.
It's because you couldn't do anything on that. evaporated.
I was tempted.
What is this?
house.
We live in a house.
Why are they lying to him now?
terrific.
Oh, I like the security.
It's a poisoned?
It's gruel.
No, it is it is the happiness patrol plant.
Food, glorious food.
Do you realise, though, this is, in fact, a set from the Colin
Baker season 22 era?
Look at the costumes.
It really is.
What?
I would have timelash.
I would have loved these costumes in time.
I would have killed for some colour variation.
Feels like time rash.
What do think?
It feels like time rash.
It looks like Talmash, but you taste it.
Okay, who's worse?
Mary or Vina?
Oh, Mary.
I love Vina.
Vina does have another world leader.
She's stressed, we don't mean Mary Peach.
No, do this.
No.
Navina has that ability to sort of...
Mary White House.
Float through.
Yeah, float through the wall.
Like the evaporating.
Yes.
It's for your hair love.
Like you get your hair done in there.
You get one of those.
Oh, I think it's a celerium.
It's a machine powering off.
It says so.
I should.
Oh, the wormu.
We're not hiring you again.
Why are they so scared?
I mean, obviously she's a mutant.
It's a hare.
Yeah, yeah, she's got an evil body.
She's going to take off her hair and she have another head.
She doesn't like one of the village of the damned.
Or as you say, Lisa Marie from Mars Attack.
Actually. come to help you.
She's awful.
I'm Teresa May.
I've come to help you How did they get the fight?
Yes exactly.
Where did they get the farming implement?
Under...
Please stop.
Stop hitting me with sticks.
Get back getting back.
We're not doing the demons for years, years.
Oh, there's Margot in the background.
Margot.
Yeah, it looks like Margot.
You must be carrying.
Oh goodness.
Dead?
Yeah, so she really actually plays a massively crucial role, you
know, overthrowning salamander in this in this episode.
Yeah, she's huge.
You know, I woman, no.
Do you think this could have been written for one of the
companions?
Yeah, quite possibly, but also apparently in the 1st draft.
Nathan, you've alluded to a line earlier that explains what
happens to these people.
That wasn't in there.
So they just kind of disappear halfway through episode six.
So I think it kind keeping her on kind of solved a problem.
I just want those fricking resort wear.
So fantastic.
I love what Mary is wearing.
I quite like Colin's shirt.
Marameka's taken over the future.
People did actually wear crap like this.
Yeah, I know, and I've got proof my parents holding me now, if
it's just like, they were on the set, probably.
Oh, yeah, and yet she didn't have a career.
Look at that face.
I mean, surely there's people would have still been doing Dickens
dramas where they needed consumptive.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Girl people. to stare fixedly into the middle distance for 20
minutes.
I'm surprised she made it to the end of the shoot.
This machine's up what?
Oh, thanks.
Right, keep going.
I love Colin.
Did he actually play Janet Fielding's nephew?
so much.
I thought he was going to play that grandfather.
No, it's 2018.
I'm Andrew.
Can you imagine what Janet would have done had she had the Mary
Peach part?
Oh, she'd have been great.
Yeah.
Should have been great in a completely different way.
You're all gnongs down here.
Some object.
I've come to help you.
Is this real contaminated?
What orders?
Strufe.
He just released us.
I was it confirmed?
You know, you do forget that...
You do forget that Fraser Hines is only 2 inches taller than
Patrick Trout.
They did call themselves the smallest show on Earth.
Everyone's terribly sure. in the TARDIS in this beer, don't they?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, Billy was only 510, I think.
Oh, not that.
No?
Maybe 5' eight.
He was taller than Pat.
And Pat was 5'6.
Oh, look, we can all get out.
You can get new hairdos and new...
Look there's a bump on the wall.
There's another bump on the wall.
Look at that bump on the wall.
Back off. is my bump.
Can you tell me how to do your hair like that?
Yeah, I mean, it's so big.
If she's going to be prime minister, if Mary's going to be the
prime minister when Astrid steps down, she'll need to have her
hair done like that.
Yeah.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Oh, now this is...
Evil John.
So hold on.
This is the room that you can't get into and no one can see into
and he can just patch it through in one button.
Oh, no, but he's in collusion.
Yeah, but it's still just one button, you know. you think someone
might have pressed that button by accident.
Exactly, you know.
It may be a finger nominated. you know, maybe an app.
Could be touch ID.
Actually, yeah, we have touch ID now, so I'm hiding in the
corridor.
I'm hiding the corridor.
My ribcage is straining at my turtleneck.
Oh hello.
I resign.
Ah, yes.
Maguan managed to slim down before they shove it.
Yes. was always.
Fit chat.
He's surprisingly sexy Patrick McGuan. for homophobic
misogynistic.
Best mate of Mel Gibson.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, you know that line when he said, never trust a woman, even the
four-legged variety.
Maguan wrote that for that episode of Dance of the Dead because it
wasn't in the original script.
Ew.
And I suppose I really like him.
I love his work, but yeah, I suppose he We shouldn't idolise our
idols too much.
He is the one in Braveheart who mentions that the punishment for
the gay prince is a red hot poker up the...
And he was an actor, so he knew what was called. scene setting.
Method.
Oh, he said the word tiresome.
My liars.
My lawyers will be onto you, Ken.
Finish the bottle.
Halt.
We haven't had a death in a little while.
I need another death.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, no, you know what?
Swan died about 10 minutes ago. wrong with you?
10 minutes.
I need a massacre. those people downstairs.
Great idea.
Do you listen?
Oh, the massacre.
Just riding is a lovely prize.
Well, you could do a writing vote, couldn't you?
Where I say, please put your name, say, you know, screw your
pole.
I want to, yeah, he's a massive.
I want to vote for the NASA.
So Ryan-ins, they're still available.
Oh, dear.
That's pretty good.
It's a fire extinguisher, as we observe.
Oh, actually, that is really good.
That's and that's probably some sort of acetylene.
Yeah, wow.
That was before health and safety came along and you weren't
allowed to risk actors' lives by having them burn bits of the
set.
Pretty much.
Yeah, now you take the shot twice once with the operator using it
and then composite the actor in.
You fooly breed.
I've been with you too many times in the past in this room No, that
leads to. know what it is.
Oh, it's a little bolt hole.
It leads it, oh, camera bump. halfway down the tunnel. leads to a
Batman angle.
Not getting in my tunnel again.
I was here going to Diana Mulder his way down the lift.
Is that what happened?
Oh my god, it's Patrick.
I'd forgotten.
Oh, look at him actually.
I'm like, that's wonderful.
Oh gosh.
So is he in league with Solomon?
He's in league with Salamander.
He took the, he took the, he took Colin and Mary down.
Colin and Mary are his fault.
That's why we hate him.
He needs to die then.
That's a completely different shock because Colin and Mary have
disappeared.
So the studio break, Pat gets back in position.
Oh, I think it's just, they take, they don't, they take the shot
again. cameras or mirrors.
Well, you deserved it, honey.
Oh, look, oh, look at him acting, bless him.
He's so good.
And he does that thing where he turns his lips in on themselves
when he's angry.
Yeah, like a salamander.
The new song by Nicki Minaj.
I thought you said Nicky Webster.
She's relaunching her career, you know.
For Eurovision.
She's 50.
What?
Is she going to be there?
I have no idea.
They were announcing it next week.
She's taking over hosting from Julia Zamira.
Is she?
That's sad I have no idea.
She...
I'm really not happy about that.
You're too easy when I do that, darling.
Never believe me.
But I believe you because you're believable in these podcasts.
Others.
Oh, I love the mop up. is great.
I'd be scared.
I demand a trial.
Okay.
A trial of a time lord.
Trial by combat.
You have to find Haththorpe Bjorn.
I wonder why Colin Dagnas disliked recording this or working on
this.
You thought it was kids TV.
I thought it was beneath him.
But did he have fun?
He doesn't die?
I don't think he does.
No. not in this.
He dies as Reuben.
He dies as Reuben twice.
No, no, no.
I talk about... the nasty little man.
Ah, no, no, no, he gets taken away for a trial because Bruce is a
decent guy.
Yeah.
I've got to admit, if you're inside the maze during this
production, It does feel like a rat maze.
You wouldn't see how good it is.
You've got to actually stand back and see the whole thing put
together, then just.
How clever to be lampooning. what they're actually making, but
yeah they really were.
Ah.
That's twice he's been called a fool in 5 minutes.
That's not going to be good for his ego.
Yeah, poor guy.
So yes, we have this lovely scene between Salamander and Kent.
For a 2nd I thought it was the doctor because the message...
And he's more, as you know, Bob.
I just came.
I didn't know it was a gay love story.
You and me?
It kind of works that way.
Well, they've been alone in that room too many times and we know
where that leads. not the man I'm in.
Oh, and it's wonderful seeing... at shooting someone. want to do
this for quite a while.
Sorry, Todd.
Not in the bum.
Not again.
I think Bill Kurt deliberately trying to make every rock wall
wobble there.
Yeah.
Oh. tomato sauce, though.
As if there wasn't enough reasons to love Mary Peach, she brought
in her 2 young children to meet Patrick Troughton because they
loved watching Doctor Who, but they were scared of the show.
So they're like, no, look.
So they got to watch this scene.
And that jump from a mid-shot to a close-up with essentially the
same angle.
But yeah, you know, you don't see that in Doctor Who.
No, you don't.
Gee, he's hanging along.
Here's some enormous leaders I've prepared earlier.
Oh, so Salamander's dead, obviously.
All screaming.
And Mary's falling and these 2 and there they go.
They disappear from the story, don't they?
Do we see them again?
No, no, we see them against it.
Are you sure?
Oh, actually, yeah, that might be the last shot.
They're gone.
John. what about, man, leave Mary and Colin.
This story just gets better and better.
If, if, if I may quote Stephen Caldwell discussing your death in
there's something about Magnus, the guy who drained me, leave him
leave him.
He's a vegetable anyway, leave him.
Now, this was added in by at Barry Let's request because he's like
hold on.
We've left all these people.
But we've forgotten about Colin and Mary, who are still under that
polystyrene thing over there.
Oh, that's something landed on them there and on the...
That it. what happened to them. lying on the ground.
Were they there with?
Yeah they were.
So they were killed because they're not getting up.
They just never get mentioned again.
Good vanish.
Men out there, young men are dying for it.
Do you know, I think that they probably end up becoming popular
children's television presenters, Colin and Mary, after this is
all over.
Oh, maybe they're taking over the SBS Eurovision coverage.
Now, maybe they are.
This shot here, the boot.
I can't see him, but the boom operator is actually in shot because
he had to get close, but they they lit it in such a way and
dressed him completely in black.
I think he's actually there on the left that you can only just
make out his foot.
Like, it's, it's an amazing piece.
I love during the Tartis's lip.
This is very strange though, this scene, isn't it?
Because we jump like we don't.
Yeah, straight, straight went back, didn't they, and waited for
him in the dark?
So it was sort of set up.
And this is strange.
And this was supposed to be longer, but they had problems with the
equipment for the spit screen.
Yeah, they for the split screen, they recorded it with the other
side masked off and then some of the some of the footage jammed.
So they lost footage that way.
But Barry Letts later discovered that he shouldn't have actually
masked off half the frame, just lock the frame and then shoot it
again.
And then shoot it again.
Yeah.
But yeah, he does pretty well.
But this was the big scene where he decided, okay, in future, I
will shoot more than I need because he had it. had real trouble
editing.
Um, making sure it was good.
The long, the long shot double behind doubles and whatnot is again
Peter Diamond.
Yes.
And oh, Pat is just so good against himself.
So good.
Oh, and that's glorious.
And that's really the only shot.
Oh, yeah, that's the only shot where they're at.
But it's not it's not split screen down the middle sort of
vertically.
Whishing.
That's fantastic.
Yep.
And that's Peter Diamond as well.
Wow.
Fantastic.
And...
Diamonds are forever.
Wow.
What a lovely, lovely way. and again.
But don't worry, he's okay.
He returns to Vic's, John Purwee, in the comics.
So that was that.
Yeah.
Do you have announcements for it?
Um, yes, we are going to be taking a short break of about a month
um, because we have very special things planned for Colin.
Of course, we have our big finish special.
We have trial of a time mode.
We have another special that we're planning.
We have our lost episodes um episode as well.
So basically we want to make sure we have them all in the can
before we start releasing.
Because also there's Richard, you're going to be in some of those
and not others.
And so, you know, we just have to, uh, and of course, um, we are
now going to announce our John.
Are we going to do that?
And of course, when we do come back for trial of a time, Lord.
Our 1st episode back.
Sorry.
When we do come back, that's when we'll announce what the John
Perti commentary is going to be at the end of call. will have won
the lovely prizes kindly donated by Greg Miller, friend of the
podcast.
Richard, beautiful David Howe illustrated book of On Target was
the steaming love story between Philip Hinchcliffe and Patrick
Mowat on the making of the Target TV series.
And we also have the lovely, what's the other stupid thing he gave
us?
Oh, yes, wave of destruction.
The entire history of Tom getting the curling ones done to him by
J and T. So we have both of those lovely things that will go to
some dear listener who has actually bothered to bloody vote.
So we don't know who they are.
Don't we?
Well, we've got your ISP numbers.
We know who you are.
But yeah, just write just write in and say something lovely and
we'll decide who we like and give it to you that way. randomly.
I don't know how it's going to happen, but we're going to have a
Facebook post and we'll and reply to that.
I think it's going to be a...
I think it's going to be a caption competition, isn't it, Richard?
Yeah, I have a photograph you've already asked.
So timy, yeah.
So I've already won it.
So anyway, it's a caption competition and we'll just and we'll
announce when that's finished well.
We're recording this on the Mardi Gras weekend and the picture is
going up this weekend, so you'll have seen it already.
It's terrific.
So we might Facebook and Twitter. that.
Yes, yeah.
And yeah, we will...
We'll get all your responses together and using an entirely
scientific principle of shouting at each other.
We will come to a consensus and prizes will be won.
But yes, we will now be off for a few weeks.
In the meantime.
Because Brenton can't be asked.
I just bought a Nintendo Switch.
I don't have time for this.
Sucking on the battery all morning.
That's why I so bitter.
Sorry listeners.
In the meantime, do check out our website, flightthroughentirety
sexy flight through indicting on Facebook and iTunes and at FT
podcast on Twitter.
Over on Bondfinger this weekend.
We are finally starting the Timothy Dalton era of Bond with the
Living Daylights.
So check that out on bondfinger.com.
Bond Finger on Facebook iTunes Bond Finger cast on Twitter.
Until then, may none of your salamanders blow up a volcano.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
See you soon.
Good everyone.