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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:08:18

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through

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Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast you can have as many as six husbands

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but they're not all necessarily ours.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Don.

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And it's gonna be a trial for you and for us.

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It's the mysterious planet, the 1st part of Trial of a Time Lord.

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So welcome to Trial of a Time Lord.

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Episodes one to four.

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I've talked before about the fact that things working against the

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show and a lot of decisions were made that just a culmination of a

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series of errors that were just going to get worse and worse.

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So here at this point, we've had 18 months off the air.

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The BBC are not supporting the show.

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If you actually watch the extras on trial of the time load, there's

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some interviews with various people, um, Eric Seywood, Michael

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Grade and Jonathan Powell, I think head of drama, and it's obvious

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that he doesn't like the show.

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They've done absolutely nothing to replace the production team.

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Interesting.

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Eric Seward says that he and Jonathan Turner were talking about a

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theme for the new season.

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Which is always not a good thing.

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Key to time was a good thing.

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But a way of alienating perhaps the audience if you've got a theme

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going on.

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And of course, during those discussions, then word came through

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that they were getting a reduced number of episodes.

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So, Eric says in his interview. that he's trying to think of the

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theme.

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So he's talking to his partner, June, or she's one of the

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production people in the doctor office.

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And just like what happened with the Oscars recently, you know how

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Warren Beatty just didn't know quite what was going on and just

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gave the envelope the best film to Faye Dunaway and threw her

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under the bus.

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Here in this interview.

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He just throws June under the bus because she says to him, what's

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going on in the show?

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And he goes, well, we're on trial.

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And she goes, well, there, you've got your theme, the trial of a

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timelord.

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So in 1000 swoop in this interview, if you watch it.

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He's blaming somebody else for this.

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Anyway, he takes this wonderful idea of the trial to John Nathan

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Turner.

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Now, of course, what they've done before is every season they look

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back at something in the past and they try and outdo it from

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gazillion years ago.

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So here we put the drop draw on trial for 14 weeks, we can have

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the longest running story in the history of the show.

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And even by episode three, JNT kind of thought, maybe this was a

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bad idea.

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So we start getting recaps during the continuity announcements

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which, of course, means that the continuity announcer can't

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pronounce things like Thorus Peter, but they are present on the

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DVD as well.

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It just proves that John should have gone.

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Right?

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as producer.

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You're off there for 18 months.

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What you actually need is you need to have like more than one

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night only.

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By doing 14 episodes story.

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Youve got one night to capture everybody.

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What, you know, you want to be able to have different stories so

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that if something doesn't work, then you've got a new night.

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Whereas here everything is about, yes, it's a new episode of the

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trial or a new segment of the trial, right?

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And then, of course, Eric's fleshing this out with the wonderful

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idea based on the Christmas Carol, that we'll have one in the past

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one in the present, and one in the future, in terms of evidence.

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Well, how does that actually work, Eric, like the future?

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Does that mean the doctor actually has a future?

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And, well, what about the past?

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Why would you just show something recent when you've got 23 years

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of Doctor Who to actually do clips from?

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And who's actually putting the doctor on trial?

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Spoiler alert people.

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It's actually the time lords, and it's a specific time lord, which

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is actually what an amalgamation of the doctor's 12th and 13th in

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between his lives.

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How does that work?

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Please explain that to me.

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But you know, we're going to do a trial because, you know, Eric's

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written so many trial dramas before.

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And we're going to take this up to Jonathan Powell, who actually

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approves it.

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And then you would think, well, okay, we're going ahead with this

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concept.

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Maybe we should write the whole thing and get everything scripted

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before we start so we know it's going to work.

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And so the whole thing is a huge giant disaster when, of course

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Eric Say would eventually leaves taking his script for episode 14

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with him.

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Which is a blessing, really, because it's all terrible.

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And it becomes clear that no one really knows what's going on.

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So the whole thing is a massive misfire.

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And the DVD extra that you refer to, Todd, is called trials and

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tribulations.

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And I actually think that it is one of the best DVD extras in the

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entire range.

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I've spoken perhaps about the incredible hour long documentary

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that accompanies Doctor Who and the Silurians, which I think is a

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brilliant, brilliant documentary and something that we're lucky to

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have.

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And the DVD range has other just occasional gems.

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And I think this is remarkable.

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And I think one of the most telling things about it is that Seward

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thinks that Jonathan Powell doesn't like the show for no reason at

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all.

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And it's pretty clear to me that he doesn't like the show because

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it's not very good in his opinion and he's the head of drama at

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the BBC.

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And what happens is he looks at the scripts for episodes one to 4

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and then sends them back with notes, and those notes survive and

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you actually see those notes on screen.

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And all of the things that he says, and I encourage you to put the

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DVD on and press the pause button at this point, because you can

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actually read them.

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And all of the things that he says.

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He's actually identifying bits of the plot that don't work.

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And he's kind of right about it.

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Isn't that he's just set against the program for no reason because

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he's mean?

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He's kind of set against the program because he has strong

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opinions about what makes drama work.

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And he kind of has an idea and all of the points that he makes are

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flaws in the story.

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And in particular, the framing story with the sleepers and all of

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that, which is meant to play into the greater trial, but doesn't

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properly because no one who's making the show has any idea about

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what the greater trial is actually going to do.

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All of those points are right.

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And so we're in a terrible situation, I think, where we've been

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cancelled for 18 months.

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And we had the opportunity to go back to the drawing board and

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think about what's not been working.

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But we don't have enough talent or insight to work out what that

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is.

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And in fact, we double down on it.

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And I've said before, I hate the Time Lords.

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I think they're terrible, they kill any story, stone dead.

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And here we're going to have 12 weeks of time lords, fools in

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stupid hats.

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It's a big misstep and it's not why people tune in for Doctor

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Who.

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Now, that doesn't mean that I think the whole season's a failure.

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I think there are things that I like about it.

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I watch it, you know, every so often with enjoyment, but I just

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think the whole trial thing is just a huge fundamental stumble.

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It's a big mistake.

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And even going further back, Eric say would on this documentary

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trials and tribulations does say upfront, I'd just done Revelation

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of the Daleks and I should have left.

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I should have left after doing revelation.

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And I think if he had, and especially we hadn't had that meltdown

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interview, that he conducts where he just throws everyone else on

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the production under the bus and how terrible it was for him.

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And you know what?

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I am sure at that point it was a toxic environment for him to work

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in.

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But I don't think what's gone wrong is all one person's fault, you

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know what I mean?

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I think if Eric had left after a revelation of the Daleks and we

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had a new script editor to hear, that he would be a lot more

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fondly remembered, and this would have gone a lot better.

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John Nathan Turner didn't want to be there anymore.

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He stayed on for 2 reasons.

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One, he was a staff producer at the BBC and he was one of the last

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ones and they refused to find him another show to go on to.

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And Jonathan Powell says on that documentary there was no show to

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move John on to.

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Whether that's true or not I don't know.

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Jonathan Powell also says no one else was putting up their hand

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for Doctor Who, and that is a lie.

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Because I have recently discovered that an ex-writer for the show

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wrote to John Nathan Turner offering to replace him on the show if

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John had something else to move on to.

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Who was that?

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Terence Dudley.

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We could have had Terrence Dudley as the producer of Doctor Who.

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So remember when he was almost Verity Landit?

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That's right, I'm explored by this fact because all I can think of

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is the doors in in Sarah Jane's spinoff, canine and company.

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There would have been a lot of phones, a lot of doors, you know

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that kind of thing.

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Yeah, so we almost got T-Duds.

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So it's even worse.

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This is the thing, you know?

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The show gets put on suspension and John feels like he can't leave

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or just can't leave because, you know, he's responsible.

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Eric feels like, well, he should be going, but he can't leave

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because he needs to help the show continue.

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And so it's just these decisions, you know, if John had been

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stronger, he may have turned around to Eric and say, look, we need

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a new script editor.

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I need to find somebody else goodbye.

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But, you know, John's coming back, you know, we've been away for

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18 months.

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This would mean the perfect time for a brand new title sequence

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because we've had this Starfield effect for God knows how long.

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Maybe, and also to get rid of Colin's coat and change it.

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But of course, he's so locked into his ideas that each doctor has

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to have their own title sequence, their own costume.

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I mean, you look at John and Tom and how their outfit changes

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every single season in between stories.

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And so none of that occurs.

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You know, I think Eric loses started the fact that, you know, we

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want to make this about a better relationship between Perry and

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the doctor, which does occur in this story, but then in the very

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next adventure, they're going to have the matrix lying and having

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the doctor do cruel things.

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I mean, how does that work, you know?

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Have you actually thought about how Perry is actually going to

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leave?

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This woman, and she's now a beautiful woman, a mature woman.

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A couple of years ago, has been disappeared from earth, whether

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she drowned or some people on a beach in Majorca, saw her being

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carted off by some guy into a blue box that she been captured.

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What is Perry's ultimate fate going to be?

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Have actually thought these things through?

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I agree with you that the whole thing is a miscalculation.

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And at some point, Eric should have had enough guts to say this is

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not working in script, we need to jettison it, but that never

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happened.

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I don't think he saw a problem with it, and that's what he seems

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to say on a documentary.

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I don't think he thinks it's bad.

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Eric's catch cry on these documentaries and it comes up quite a

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bit.

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You can make a drinking game out of it is, he says, some variation

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on it worked when it left my desk.

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So in, you know, at that point, he's saying it's the director's

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fault and it's the actor's fault.

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And I think there are some cases in Doctor Who, where you might be

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able to say that, where you might be able to look at a performance

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and say there is nothing wrong with this dialogue, but the actor

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is not giving a good performance.

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Jill Tarrant anyone.

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But to say that about a whole season, to say that about 4 whole

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years of Doctor Who.

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That is not a fair criticism.

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And that is not a self-aware criticism, no.

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But let's think about this, okay?

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00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.700
We've got a courtroom for the trial for 14 episodes.

249
00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.059
Surely you would decide, well, if we're going to have a courtroom

250
00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:32.460
we've got to make this courtroom feel real.

251
00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:33.419
We're going to think about the doctor.

252
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.740
I detest beyond all belief, the courtroom set.

253
00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:40.919
You've got the doctor in a small box on one side, the value on

254
00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.039
another, and basically the inquisitor is on a ramp, right?

255
00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:48.360
And it's in the one side of the studio, you know, up to this video

256
00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:48.960
monitor.

257
00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:53.220
Now, I guess it's just me. used to American courtroom dramas where

258
00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:55.799
you've got the judge at the back and you've got a big space

259
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.080
between where the prosecution and the defences.

260
00:12:58.139 --> 00:12:58.919
You've got people behind.

261
00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:01.139
You've got the jury down one side and you've got a big space where

262
00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:04.259
if they're making arguments, they can walk up and down and you can

263
00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:07.019
have witnesses in a witness box, right?

264
00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.620
But none of this, which I consider to be in a courtroom trial is

265
00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:12.120
actually going to happen, you know?

266
00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:16.980
And so, We're limiting ourselves by, you know, by this concept of

267
00:13:16.980 --> 00:13:17.759
what it looks like.

268
00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:21.600
Now, I realise that it looks like a lot of now that I've seen a

269
00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.600
lot of British shows, like a lot of British shows, the actual

270
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.379
courtrooms in Britain are much closer together than American ones

271
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:32.039
but I just have a problem with, well, but I think it's a corner of

272
00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:32.519
the studio.

273
00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:34.679
I think the courtroom looks plasticky.

274
00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:36.899
There's an attempt to make it look gothic.

275
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.440
There's sort of Gothic arches and things, but this story, in

276
00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.679
particular, you go from a really impressive initial model shot to

277
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.200
a really sort of wobbly cardboard set.

278
00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.100
And, and, you know, the fact of the matter is the courtroom is, you

279
00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:53.460
know, their big concept, but basically what they do is just cough

280
00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:57.840
up 3 fairly standard Doctor Who stories, which are, you know

281
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.679
slowed down and constantly interrupted by pretty inconsequential

282
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:06.299
and boring scenes, culminating in their sort of big two-part story

283
00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:07.679
which is supposed to cap it off.

284
00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:13.080
But the courtroom drama is really so undercooked, that it's not

285
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.039
really what they're doing.

286
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:16.620
You know, they think they're putting the doctor on trial, but all

287
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:20.279
they're doing is having a sort of Greek chorus over business as

288
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:20.580
usual.

289
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.679
Yeah, they're doing what we're doing.

290
00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:24.960
The show should be better than this.

291
00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:28.679
There's lines of dialogue that the doctor says, you know, wake me

292
00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:29.759
when this is over and other things.

293
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:30.899
Oh, it doesn't help.

294
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.379
And they have no idea that by him actually saying these things

295
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:35.580
about what's going on.

296
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.480
It's a judgement within the actual show that we're seeing on the

297
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:39.659
show.

298
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.019
Yeah, Colin says he was aware about this and questioned this.

299
00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.259
He says this on the documentary that as soon as he heard that this

300
00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:48.899
season was going to be a trial before he even started getting

301
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:49.440
scripts.

302
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:51.299
He said to JNT, this sounds risky.

303
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.679
You know, it sounds risky to parody this element of ourselves, and

304
00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:56.399
I agree with him.

305
00:14:56.460 --> 00:15:01.740
My big problem with the courtroom scenes is, It's just the 4

306
00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:05.460
pedestal cameras, so one wide shot, one close up for the 3

307
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:09.360
speaking leads, the doctor, the inquisitor, the valley yard, and

308
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:10.559
you just cut between those.

309
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:11.820
There's no visual flair.

310
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.840
And I think part of that is we've got 3 directors having to work

311
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:16.679
with this courtroom.

312
00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:18.960
We've got Nicholas Mallet for the 1st story.

313
00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:23.279
We've got Ron Jones for the 2nd story, and we have Chris Gloff

314
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.299
coming in for the last two.

315
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.919
And so rather than try and put their sort of directorial stamp on

316
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:33.299
it, they all go middle of the road so it all matches up.

317
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.659
I think what the trial scenes needed is they needed a dedicated

318
00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:42.539
director to think, how am I going to make this 3 wall proscenium

319
00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:44.100
arch set look interesting?

320
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.399
And the 1st thing would have been to turn the lights down.

321
00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:51.299
When the doctor 1st walks in and everything's in shadow, doesn't

322
00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:55.679
it look just like what is happening here?

323
00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:56.639
It's mysterious.

324
00:15:56.700 --> 00:16:01.919
When we get there next week with the 2nd element, Mind Warp.

325
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:05.100
In spite of what you may want to say about the story.

326
00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:07.740
The lighting is dark.

327
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.519
It's confusing, which feeds into the confusing elements of the

328
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:11.879
story.

329
00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.879
But for ones in the 80s, they've turned the goddamn lights down to

330
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.179
make things atmospheric, and that continues in the last 2 stories

331
00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:19.500
of the season as well.

332
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:24.600
But then we come back to this floodlit gold plastic set with as

333
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:25.980
wonderful as she is.

334
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:30.360
The mum from the Oxo commercials as the inquisitor, and Linda

335
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.440
Bellingham is fabulous, and she's in that 1st scene in the

336
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.799
mysterious planet where she just swans in and practically ignores

337
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:38.580
the doctor.

338
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.700
I quite like how the doctor sort of stands up because she's so

339
00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:44.220
fabulous and then goes, no, wait a 2nd supposed to be crossed.

340
00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:46.200
Yeah, that's great.

341
00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:49.980
And Michael Jason establishes himself well in those scenes.

342
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:55.259
The 3 of them are the ones saving grace of these scenes because

343
00:16:55.259 --> 00:17:01.559
they are good actors, being given really thankless dialogue and

344
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:03.360
just trying to make the best they can out of it.

345
00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:07.319
And the whole boatyard, knacker's yard, brickyard, junkyard

346
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:07.740
stuff.

347
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:10.740
Have you got a list of all of them, Todd?

348
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.019
I hated this.

349
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.960
I hated them beyond the It belittles the doctor.

350
00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:16.559
It does.

351
00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:21.539
Boatyard, graveyard, farmyard, scrapyard, knackers yard, brickyard

352
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:24.059
rail yard, stockyard, errex, a yard.

353
00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:27.180
No, it's poor.

354
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.839
I mean, Colin does get some good speeches in the trial, and it

355
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.839
kind of plays to his strengths because he's big and bombastic and

356
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:34.680
oratorical.

357
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:38.460
So he gets to give big speeches in a context where big speeches

358
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:39.180
are appropriate.

359
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.720
But, you know, I just think those scenes are terribly boring and

360
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.559
they completely slow to a crawl the pace of any, you know, scene

361
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:47.400
that they appear in.

362
00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:49.859
A lot of my problem is the fact that I don't like a lot of the

363
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:53.940
dialogue, and Colin is a big performer, and so rather he doesn't

364
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:56.099
have the space to perform, and so he's got to use his voice.

365
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.460
So the overemphasis on some lines annoys me.

366
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.539
I like Linda Bellingham, but at times I think some of her dialogue

367
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:06.660
should be the valley yards and sometimes I think his dialogue

368
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.160
should be her dialogue throughout this.

369
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:12.480
And what I do like about these 1st 4 or 5 episodes is the fact

370
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.980
that Michael Jason's value is very still, very still, and very

371
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:20.039
controlled, whereas the doctor is like a caged animal and is

372
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.579
trying to get out of the cage and increasingly coming across as

373
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:27.119
more and more desperate and, you know, his little tempered

374
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.599
tantrums and everything like that because he can't. convey what he

375
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:31.380
needs to convey.

376
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.500
And that's, I guess that's the one thing I got more this time, but

377
00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:37.619
I've grown more numb to the trial scenes over the years.

378
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.559
Like I just sit there and I watch them and yeah, okay.

379
00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:43.980
I actually think Ron Jones is a poorer job than the other 2

380
00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:47.400
directors because you actually see the black floor and all the

381
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.160
lines, whereas the other 2 are trying to mask that as much as

382
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:50.579
possible.

383
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.420
But in Ron Jones's defence, I would like to say that those early

384
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:57.180
atmospheric scenes before the lights come on were done by Ron

385
00:18:57.180 --> 00:18:57.779
Jones as well.

386
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.500
They were a remount because the set was erected in the wrong place

387
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:04.079
for Nicholas Mallett's 1st trial session.

388
00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.519
So he lost time.

389
00:19:05.579 --> 00:19:09.900
But the thing is, you've got that magnificent shock to begin the

390
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:13.380
season with, right, of the actual space station costing over £8000

391
00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:17.819
and the 1st time they'd used that to scan technology to actually

392
00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:21.299
you know, when you see that, you then expect something like end of

393
00:19:21.299 --> 00:19:23.640
the world, the carter should land and there should be a huge open

394
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:27.119
area that is walking through, you should be able to see out to

395
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:28.259
space with big windows.

396
00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:29.400
You don't get any of that.

397
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:32.220
It could be anywhere, not this space station.

398
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:32.819
That's the thing.

399
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:33.299
Where is it?

400
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:34.319
Is it one of those domes?

401
00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:36.059
Is it in, why is it in this little corner?

402
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:37.559
Why do the time Lords have this?

403
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.380
A time Lords committing these crimes every other day or are they

404
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:42.960
judging other species and they're supposed to be non

405
00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:42.960
interference?

406
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:45.000
And then what's with the matrix?

407
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:47.099
Like, you know, something that the public have never really heard

408
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:50.039
of, and we've only ever gone into mentally, but later we're going

409
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:52.200
to be able to physically penetrate it, and now it can record

410
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:53.400
anything from a TARDIS.

411
00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:56.339
It's like compromise after compromise in order to get the evidence

412
00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:56.819
on the screen.

413
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.019
Yeah.

414
00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:01.440
Something I wish these trial scenes had been like.

415
00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:06.420
About 10 years later, Babylon 5, and I talk about it a lot.

416
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.500
But Babylon 5.

417
00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:09.059
No, I've never heard of it.

418
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.380
The creator of Babylon 5 has gone on record as saying he loved

419
00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:16.440
classic Doctor Who and it was one of the influencers.

420
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.519
The whole twist in frontier in space of how their war started

421
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:21.839
between Earth and Draconia.

422
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:27.420
He stole that idea and freely admits it for the Earth Minbari

423
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:28.079
conflict.

424
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:32.039
And the Minbari are this mystical kind of race.

425
00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:34.920
But when they put someone on trial or when they have secret

426
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:38.400
meetings, it's just this black space with people standing in

427
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.460
spotlights and it's immediately mysterious.

428
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.220
It's like the war games with this abstract space.

429
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:49.920
And part of the problem is now, Doctor Who has become a show which

430
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.339
does not any longer take visual risks or storytelling risks.

431
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.539
Next week it'll take a big storytelling risk, and then a few weeks

432
00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.779
later we'll completely say, oh, no, no, it's all traditional in

433
00:21:00.779 --> 00:21:01.619
Disney all along.

434
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.920
But there's no longer any visual risks.

435
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:07.680
Everything is literally represented visually.

436
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.180
The trial set just could have been negative space with just those

437
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:12.960
3 actors.

438
00:21:13.019 --> 00:21:16.319
We don't need those bloody 12 time lords sitting up there.

439
00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:17.880
You know, they're just...

440
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.900
There to be peril monkeys in the last episode and we still don't

441
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:22.619
care about them.

442
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.019
Well, I mean, they aren't there for that reason because they're

443
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:28.019
being peril monkeys in the last episode is a late invention by Pip

444
00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:28.859
and Jane Baker.

445
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:29.700
That was never there.

446
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.319
So they're really just set dressing.

447
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:34.440
And I think they're just there so that we have some, you know

448
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.019
stupid galafrean collars.

449
00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:42.359
I think that that trial set looks terrible.

450
00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:43.859
It is really shockingly bad.

451
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.240
And I think a contrast between that space exterior and some sort

452
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.660
of big Gothic stone cathedral like space would have been fun to

453
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:52.799
experiment with as well.

454
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:55.140
Yeah, It really undermines things.

455
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.299
All right, well, that's the trial.

456
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.900
Why don't we talk about the evidence, which I call the mysterious

457
00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:02.519
planet, the actual evidence that we've seen.

458
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:06.119
I think this is a bit of a return to form.

459
00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:07.799
It's nothing spectacular.

460
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:13.440
But it starts with the Dr. and Perry just chatting and wandering

461
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.099
through the rain and making jokes at each other, but laughing

462
00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:20.759
together, and he teases her, she teases him.

463
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:24.720
She's really clever in pointing out that this, if this planet has

464
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.819
been ravaged by fire, then this shouldn't be here and that

465
00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:27.900
shouldn't be here.

466
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.039
It's clear that some time has passed, and they've made a conscious

467
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.579
effort to show that in the characterisation, also the fact that, as

468
00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:38.339
you alluded to earlier, Todd, Perry looks older, this, to me, feels

469
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:40.019
like they've been together for a few years now.

470
00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:43.319
A week ago as we discussed this.

471
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:47.460
I actually sat down and watched every episode of Trial of a Time

472
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:50.700
Lord back to back over a period of about 7 hours, you know, and

473
00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:51.720
live tweeted it.

474
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.940
Nathan, you joined me for the mysterious planet.

475
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:58.980
And just coming off the back of season 22, which, you know, we all

476
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:01.799
said there were at least 4 stories in there we enjoyed.

477
00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:07.500
But it started to feel very claustrophobic for me, season 22

478
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:10.500
because there was so much studio stuff that everyone in this

479
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.559
universe is horrible to each other and what have you, to then come

480
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:18.299
into this scene and we're outdoors in this ethereal wood and the

481
00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:21.900
doctor and Perry are just wandering along, chatting amiably and

482
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:22.799
being nice to each other.

483
00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.619
I think that's a really strong opening.

484
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.380
I actually remember at the time feeling the same way.

485
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:32.400
I hadn't liked season 22 when it 1st came out and when I saw it

486
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:33.240
for the 1st time.

487
00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:35.519
And I wanted to like it.

488
00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:36.720
You know, it's Doctor Who.

489
00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:37.680
I wanted to like it.

490
00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:41.039
And here, I think Colin gets it right.

491
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:42.059
He's really likeable.

492
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.160
He's still all of the things he is.

493
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:48.240
He's still pompous and self-regarding and all of those, but he's

494
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:50.339
toned down the nastiness.

495
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:54.779
And the 2 of them together are really great and the jokes that

496
00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:56.460
they make at each other's expense.

497
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:01.019
And the interaction, once the 2 of them get down out of the

498
00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:05.460
location and into the studio, into Mob Station, and she gets that

499
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:10.140
speech about her world being destroyed, and the doctor's response

500
00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:13.859
to that is otherworldly and alien, and precisely what the doctor

501
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:18.299
was originally conceived to be when Colin took over, and it works

502
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:18.960
really well.

503
00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:20.400
He's never unlikeable.

504
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:22.319
He's sort of funny and silly.

505
00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:26.519
You know, when she stumbles after he leaves and he quickly sort of

506
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:28.140
sticks his head back around the corner.

507
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:30.000
He's nice.

508
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:30.779
He's funny.

509
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.680
I think this is perhaps the only time they get this relationship

510
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.660
right and they will throw it away immediately in the next story.

511
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:41.460
I think that's a great shame.

512
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:44.220
These are my favourite scenes of the 2 of them acting together.

513
00:24:44.700 --> 00:24:50.339
Oh, look, I love them in season 22 and here it's just icing on the

514
00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:53.519
cake, the fact that there is no bitchiness and, you know, I don't

515
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:56.099
think it was actually originally written quite that way in the

516
00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:56.579
script.

517
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:57.839
They both comment about that.

518
00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:02.160
And some of the outtakes indicate perhaps it was not as all rosy

519
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.460
but they play against typing those scenes purposely to ensure that

520
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:06.599
they just have a wonderful relationship.

521
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:09.599
And I think there's just a lightness of touch to Colin in this

522
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:11.400
which I just really, really love.

523
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.180
And plus he's got the blue bow tie, which is my favourite one of

524
00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:18.359
all of his bow ties because it brings out the greens and the blues

525
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:19.019
and the coat.

526
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:23.039
In this story, like his hair does need about 2 inches off the

527
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:23.460
bottom.

528
00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:29.759
He's not as overweight as in later in the season.

529
00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:32.700
You can tell he's put on a bit of weight, but it's not too

530
00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:33.480
distracting in this.

531
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:36.180
And I just think both of their performances in this are just

532
00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:40.079
beautiful, and I think if you don't like the 6th doctor, This is

533
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.160
the one story that you should watch to get a different opinion.

534
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:44.819
Yeah.

535
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:49.140
I mean, the weight thing, I think, it is something fair for us to

536
00:25:49.140 --> 00:25:51.119
mention, because it's going to become a plot point in a later

537
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:51.660
story.

538
00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:55.079
It kind of comes back to what you were saying earlier, Todd, of

539
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.359
whiting they get rid of the costume because all of Collin's

540
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:58.799
costumes in this season are brand new.

541
00:25:58.859 --> 00:26:01.680
They recut because he has put on weight.

542
00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.799
Then none of them are the original coats from last year.

543
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:08.819
It was a perfect opportunity to give him a new coat.

544
00:26:08.940 --> 00:26:13.440
When he would later do the ultimate adventure stage play, they

545
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:18.480
gave him a new coat, which was still patchwork, but it was red and

546
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.279
purples just all the way through.

547
00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:23.160
And I've only seen a photo from the front, but it doesn't look

548
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:25.140
like it has any greens or blues in it.

549
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:28.440
It's just red and purple with velvet lapels.

550
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:35.579
And it is still out there and strange, but it has symmetry and it

551
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:37.619
has complementary colours on it.

552
00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:41.880
And it just would have been a great time to give him the same cut

553
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.460
of coat and maybe even still patchwork.

554
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:49.079
But bring it in line with complimentary colours, you know, to

555
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:50.819
indicate that this character has mellowed.

556
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.680
I think that Matt Smith's 2nd costume, the one that he wears when

557
00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.059
he's with Clara is very definitely an attempt to get that costume

558
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:00.660
right.

559
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.160
Do you think that's a mistake?

560
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:06.299
No, no, I quite like that. outfit and I think it does work.

561
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:08.700
And I think Colin would have looked much better.

562
00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:12.660
And it would have had, you know, a knock-on effect with the

563
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:13.619
visuals of the rest of the show.

564
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:14.519
Yeah.

565
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.940
Now, this story, I think, is very much a rewrite of the crotons

566
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:18.900
for me.

567
00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:20.880
It's really very safe.

568
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:25.980
It's Bob Holmes' greatest hits and it is, you know, Bob Holmes has

569
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:28.440
come into the show before and kind of relaunched it.

570
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.259
You know, he did at the beginning of season 7 and then again at

571
00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:33.720
the beginning of season 8 and then sort of at the beginning of

572
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:38.160
season 11 and 16, you know, like he's done it a bunch of times.

573
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:44.640
I think he's really out of ideas at this and what they've decided

574
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.220
to do is something really very safe and traditional.

575
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:52.019
And so I think it's all just a little bit low rent.

576
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:57.000
We talked about the sort of high concept of the terrible ultimate

577
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.039
evil last week.

578
00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:03.119
Here we've got people who live in a station underground where

579
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:06.299
there's no water and they're high tech people and then you have

580
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:11.759
people living outside in a sort of Iron Age society.

581
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:16.140
And all of that's been sort of more or less done before, you know

582
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:20.460
humpker and tantral who live with the giant robot in the base

583
00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:24.180
underground are very definitely taken from the crotons, aren't

584
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:24.420
they?

585
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.599
And the Immortal's Palace is like the Crocodile.

586
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:30.180
You've got to do something to get into the palace and all that

587
00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:30.660
sort of thing.

588
00:28:30.779 --> 00:28:33.240
And if they're outside the system, they're going to be killed and

589
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:33.779
that sort of thing.

590
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.259
But having said that, I just find this story so whimsical and I

591
00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:38.819
just sit there and I just laugh all the way through it.

592
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.380
Well, it's less nasty.

593
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.119
They have toned the nastiness down.

594
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:46.440
There's one yucky bit where the leaders of the tribe of the free

595
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.299
are kind of melted by drathrow.

596
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:51.960
And that seems to me to be the kind of traditional yucky Doctor

597
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.519
Who death that is what we do now, you know, when people die and

598
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.420
that's fun and yucky, but nothing's unpleasant.

599
00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:03.720
But because we haven't had people with their hands being crushed

600
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.259
leading up to that or guns being broken or strangled by cybermen

601
00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:08.400
or whatever, that's effective.

602
00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:11.519
And no one wants to have sex with Perry this time, which is a

603
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:12.119
relief.

604
00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:15.480
Although, Joan Sims is trying to pimper out.

605
00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:19.859
But that's a matter of their culture. that in order for their

606
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:22.980
culture to survive, they have a polygamous society.

607
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:25.619
No, it's polyandrous, really, isn't it?

608
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:26.759
Oh yes, I suppose so.

609
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:31.019
That's, I mean, that is really fun and silly, and it gives Perry

610
00:29:31.019 --> 00:29:34.740
the opportunity for that really fun line about husbands that you

611
00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:36.480
riffed on earlier, Brendan.

612
00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:38.819
So all of that's fun.

613
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.079
You know, Bob Holmes, right?

614
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:43.619
funny dialogue and stuff, but, you know, it's a giant robot

615
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:45.660
underground threatening people.

616
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.559
One piece of casting I particularly loved is actually Joan Sims.

617
00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:52.319
I think she's perfect for the role as this matriarch.

618
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:55.079
She's taking it seriously.

619
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:57.720
She's not doing a silly voice and sending it up.

620
00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:00.960
And, you know, when she's saying things to Perry, like, you know

621
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.440
you're most welcome to join us, and I will find many good husbands

622
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:04.920
for you.

623
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.539
She completely, it's hilarious.

624
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:10.440
It's so funny But she completely believes it as well.

625
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:13.500
And when she's saying, you know, we will go and kill the

626
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:14.160
immortal.

627
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:17.819
As I tweeted at the time, is there any more purer sight than Joan

628
00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:19.680
Sims holding 2 laser rifles?

629
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:21.359
She looks completely comfortable.

630
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:29.400
You know, I believe that she is this bronze age queen of a tribe.

631
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:32.039
It's the Beryl Reed thing again.

632
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:35.279
She's come into it and even if she doesn't necessarily understand

633
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:35.819
it.

634
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:37.380
And we know Beryl didn't.

635
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:38.400
I don't know if Joan did.

636
00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:42.240
But she's just kind of going, I have a truth in this character.

637
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:46.559
And I think she's kind of glad also to be playing someone who

638
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.920
wouldn't be in a carry-on film or wouldn't be portrayed that way

639
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:54.359
in a carry-on film because actresses of this time, actresses of

640
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:54.900
her age.

641
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.940
Like Beryl Reed, like Molly Sugden, would get typecast in that

642
00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:00.960
kind of role.

643
00:31:01.019 --> 00:31:04.200
Like Molly Sogden come back, Mrs. Noah after that was basically

644
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.059
just Mrs. Slocum in space.

645
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:10.319
You know, whereas Joan here, she's given an interesting character

646
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.779
to play and she decides I'm going to do this seriously.

647
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:17.519
I think she's smart and that's really fun because she's Iron Age

648
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.480
but she isn't outwitted by Glitz and Dibber and she doesn't

649
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:25.559
believe the doctor because she's canny, you know, and she sort of

650
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:26.339
makes mistakes.

651
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.579
I mean, she makes the mistake of recognising that incredibly

652
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:34.740
crummy L1 L3 robot. through the wall.

653
00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:39.960
So she does make a mistake and she does get herself killed.

654
00:31:40.019 --> 00:31:41.579
But she's never mocked.

655
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.940
You know, she's never regarded as stupid by the story.

656
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.259
And that's nice. yeah.

657
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:50.279
I adore like, I adore so many of the smaller characters.

658
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:51.779
He's the book guy.

659
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:53.099
Bellazar.

660
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:57.599
He's really funny and I love how he calls the planet UK Habitat.

661
00:31:57.660 --> 00:31:58.440
I think that's really great.

662
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:03.000
He was previously in a Blake 7 episode where they were bidding on

663
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:03.599
slaves.

664
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:04.380
Do you remember this?

665
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.440
And he was the one who was on his phone saying that Valeria of

666
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.240
Prin bids 300 VMs.

667
00:32:09.299 --> 00:32:10.259
No way.

668
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:11.099
Yeah, that's him.

669
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:15.539
And he's also subsequently in various Jeeves and Worcester stories

670
00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:15.900
too.

671
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:17.940
And he goes on to play James Bond.

672
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.319
What?

673
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:22.140
Yeah, in the okay, so in the early 2000s, there was a series of

674
00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:25.440
James Bond video games where they had Pierce Brosnan's likeness

675
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.000
but Pierce wouldn't do the voice.

676
00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:29.519
So he's the voice of that James Bond.

677
00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:31.500
And there's one game where they didn't have Pierce's likeness, so

678
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.799
they create a whole new James Bond with Adam Blackwood, but

679
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.460
there's 3 or 4 games where Adam Blackwood is James Bond.

680
00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:41.220
And he's kind of archerish with his delivery.

681
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.420
Sterling archer-ish.

682
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:43.259
He is very good.

683
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.579
The main game where it's him and not Pierce Brosnan's face is

684
00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:48.900
called Agent Under Fire.

685
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.680
I think we can find some cutscenes of that on YouTube to put up

686
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:53.940
but that's quite fun.

687
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.220
Like there's a bit where you've just played a level where you're

688
00:32:56.220 --> 00:33:00.660
driving around Monaco. taking out enemies with rocket launchers

689
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:03.660
and when he arrives at the dock and the car's smashed up, Q comes

690
00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:03.900
out.

691
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:04.500
What did you do?

692
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.539
Sorry, Q. I was delayed.

693
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.420
He's fabulous.

694
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:13.319
Yeah, I love him waiting for the food machine to spew all that

695
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.859
green gung over his face and calling the doctor the old one.

696
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.380
No, I really love him and Merdine.

697
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.400
Tom Chadbourne.

698
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.039
Yeah, so he's Duggan from City of Death.

699
00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:24.839
I think he plays it with gravitas.

700
00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:26.160
Look, I think he does as well.

701
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.640
There's a sort of plot that the cliffhanger to episode 3 hangs on

702
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:33.059
and that's the plot between him and Grell, who's that younger

703
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.440
guard.

704
00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:38.099
And I kind of think Grell's in it so little that that plot doesn't

705
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:41.099
really land and it's trying to give him something to do, but it's

706
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:42.240
not really very interesting.

707
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:46.559
And so he is a little bit wasted, but it's always nice to have

708
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.960
someone good. even if they're in a small park.

709
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.079
You know, I think he's quite watchable and his interactions over

710
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.980
the video phone thing with the immortal are pretty good too.

711
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.819
Yeah, I like the fact that that episode 3 Cliffhanger is actually

712
00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:04.319
shot with like him firing his little arrow gun and that's the end

713
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.599
as opposed to episode four.

714
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:11.039
Colin's face on episodes one and 4 and even episode 2 where he

715
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.800
goes, oh, this could be the end, close up on the rocker's face.

716
00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:15.599
Well, actually, no, because we're actually watching this and this

717
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:16.380
happened.

718
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:17.519
So that's not actually going to happen.

719
00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:18.480
Yeah, yeah.

720
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:21.900
And also, you've literally been chucked out into deep space

721
00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:22.800
several times.

722
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:25.260
You know, you've faced firing squads.

723
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:27.780
I don't think this is actually such a big deal.

724
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.480
The immortal, Drastro.

725
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:35.639
They go on and on and on in the actual DVD about his production

726
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:39.239
and how they were making his parts actually moveable like a robot

727
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:43.380
rather than having like the robots from mind robber where you've

728
00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:45.360
got human joints masked.

729
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:46.800
And it's actually really great.

730
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:48.239
Like I actually think that's really good.

731
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:51.659
It's a pity that the actual top of the head is always at a two

732
00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:53.280
thirds angle rather than full on.

733
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:56.699
But it's one of these things in the story where I kind of go, well

734
00:34:56.699 --> 00:34:58.139
you guys are focussing on this.

735
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.539
They're focussing on that visual effect in episode one.

736
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:03.539
Shouldn't we be focussing on other, more important things like, you

737
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:06.480
know, casual viewers may not even pick up on this fact, is such a

738
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:07.619
small minute detail.

739
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:12.059
Well, I think that just having a big giant out of control robot is

740
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:15.900
massively boring and unoriginal.

741
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.460
And Colin, you know, in theory, Colin should work in a scene where

742
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:26.460
he is having some kind of ethical argument with the robot.

743
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:31.679
But the dialogue there is unusually terrible for Bob Holmes, I

744
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:31.860
think.

745
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:33.179
Yeah, it's very simplistic.

746
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:36.360
It's kind of just the doctor saying, no, things should be left to

747
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.300
be alive because they're alive and life is good.

748
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:43.500
Yeah, I mean, it's even sub a well-prepared meal, that speech, you

749
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:43.739
know.

750
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:45.840
And Colin does the best he can with it.

751
00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:50.820
There is a wonderful bit of that whole scene I love, which is the

752
00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:55.260
doctor saying that the robot is feeling hubris and just the way

753
00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:58.139
they choreographed the robot to look over his shoulder.

754
00:35:58.199 --> 00:35:59.940
That's a hubris.

755
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.500
It's camp, but I think what really sells it, it's Collins outrage

756
00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:08.880
of course, which he's so good at doing, and a robot looking over

757
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:09.900
their shoulder.

758
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:13.980
Like that's kind of, what's the word that, that incongruity of

759
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:14.460
ideas.

760
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:19.440
Two other cast members, of course, are Tony Selby and Glenn Murphy

761
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:21.420
as Glitz and Dipper.

762
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:23.159
He's very pretty.

763
00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:24.539
And he's funny too.

764
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:27.539
I think he actually is really genuinely very funny.

765
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:28.920
He does a great performance.

766
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:32.460
I love his crack about how they've got so much black light in

767
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.039
their ship that sometimes they can hardly even see.

768
00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:36.000
I think that's really good.

769
00:36:36.059 --> 00:36:39.599
I think Tony Selby actually surprised me and I tweeted this as we

770
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:40.380
were watching it.

771
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.440
I actually think he's not very good in this.

772
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:46.980
He's certainly not as good as he is in his subsequent stories.

773
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.360
I think he's really declarative and stagey and unrealistic.

774
00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:55.920
And I also think it is just more of the Holmes playbook.

775
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:59.579
You know, he's Garren, again, essentially.

776
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:01.139
Only a bit nastier.

777
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.679
Interesting, because I actually really like Tony Silby in this

778
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.440
performance, whereas maybe it's the character.

779
00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:10.440
I think the character here, you could imagine him being quite

780
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.400
nasty, whereas I think subsequently down the track, he's much, much

781
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:15.360
kinder and gentle.

782
00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:17.820
They make him more cuddly for his return.

783
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:21.179
It's more his delivery, I think, than his character that I don't

784
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:21.300
like.

785
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:26.519
I do have to say at the time watching it, I was quite obsessed

786
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.079
with Deborah and I couldn't quite work out.

787
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:28.559
Why?

788
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:31.440
I'm rolling my eyes listeners.

789
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:34.800
And I've always liked you, bro, and I've always been bitterly

790
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.000
disappointed that he never came.

791
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.019
Yeah, he's next companion later in the season is terrible.

792
00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:42.420
Terrible, terrible.

793
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:47.340
Also, we may have never had these awakening feelings about Dibba

794
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:50.099
because do you know who the director actually wanted to play these

795
00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:50.519
roles?

796
00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:53.340
Jennifer Saunders.

797
00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:54.300
And Dawn French.

798
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:57.599
French and Saunders were the 1st approach and it was literally

799
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:58.380
just dates.

800
00:37:58.440 --> 00:37:59.400
They couldn't make it work.

801
00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:02.280
Jonathan Bow was perfectly up for these 2 parts being played by

802
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:03.179
women.

803
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:07.920
And I'm just imagining them as their extras personas, as we see in

804
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.719
the trial of a Time Lord sketch, they do.

805
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:14.159
I'm thinking Jen would have had to have been glitz, and Dawn would

806
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:18.360
have had to have been Dibber, because usually in their sketches

807
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:21.719
kind of Gens, the more worldly one, and Dawn is the kind of

808
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:22.619
ditzier one.

809
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:25.380
But strangely, there's this show they made around the same time

810
00:38:25.380 --> 00:38:26.579
called Girls on Top.

811
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:29.940
It was billed as a female version of the young ones.

812
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:33.059
And of course, comic strip presents, all of them will work

813
00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:33.659
together before.

814
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:40.199
So it was Jennifer, Dawn, Ruby Wax, and Tracy Ullman, and they're

815
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:42.119
these 4 young women trying to live in London.

816
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:46.739
They move into like a 2 bedroom flat, which is all they can afford

817
00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:50.940
above this ageing romance novel is played by Joan Greenwood.

818
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:57.119
Now in that, Dawn French is this sort of militant feminist

819
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.519
character who falls apart every time a man looks at her.

820
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:05.579
Whereas Jennifer Saunders is an idiot savant. who just is, you

821
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:08.519
know, plays at kind of ditsy and talks like this and everyone

822
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:11.340
makes jokes at her expense, but when people make jokes at her, it's

823
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:14.400
bed, you suddenly get this extreme close with Jennifer Saunders

824
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.159
with murder in her eyes and then you cut away to something else.

825
00:39:17.219 --> 00:39:19.260
It's all on YouTube.

826
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:20.340
It's a really good series.

827
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.739
So it's possible it could have been the other way around there.

828
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:24.000
It is possible.

829
00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:27.840
Imagine them going up against Joan Sims. great.

830
00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:30.360
I think Bob Holmes would have vetoed it.

831
00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:32.699
He would have got confused if they'd been 3 women in a story.

832
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:37.559
There's not many women in the underground settlement, is there?

833
00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:41.219
No, but apparently they get their women in the tribe of the free.

834
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.739
The reason they have women at all is that they come up from

835
00:39:43.739 --> 00:39:46.199
underground, but I couldn't see any underground at all.

836
00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:49.199
Maybe they'd all come up for the extra husbands that they could

837
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.519
get if they joined the tribe.

838
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.780
Yeah, well, I don't think handbag and handrail or whatever their

839
00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:56.579
names are would be very interesting.

840
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:01.139
My theory is, and I tweeted it, but Humper and Tandril, that Colin

841
00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:04.440
gets their names from a bunch of times, he calls them humbug and

842
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:05.880
handbag at one point.

843
00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:11.820
I think that that is Bob Holmes making fun of crappy 2 syllable

844
00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:12.900
science fiction names.

845
00:40:13.019 --> 00:40:16.440
Because it's a sin he tends not to commit.

846
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:19.739
He tends to come up with much more interesting names than that.

847
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.300
So I think it's making...

848
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:22.019
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

849
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.920
I think he's making fun of that So can we talk about the climax of

850
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.760
the story because I think that this is where it all really falls

851
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:30.599
to pieces.

852
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.079
And that is not Drathrow.

853
00:40:34.139 --> 00:40:38.760
Drathrow, the immortal, is very neatly dealt with my glitz and

854
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:39.900
dipper, which I think is lovely.

855
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:42.360
The doctor doesn't manage to outwit him with the big stupid

856
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:44.519
philosophical conversation.

857
00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:48.000
You know, glitz just tricks him, but it's the black light

858
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:48.900
explosion.

859
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.860
And I tweeted at the time that Black Light was not only a source

860
00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:58.019
of endless, clean energy, but an incredibly great source of word

861
00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:59.280
peril as well.

862
00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:03.840
So all of that is just us talking about a big explosion

863
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.440
happening.

864
00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:08.039
And then Colin talks it up so that the entire universe is at

865
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:08.519
stake.

866
00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:11.519
But it's all just words and flashing lights.

867
00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:13.739
And how is the situation resolved?

868
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.340
They all meet in Jethro's palace and just press a whole bunch of

869
00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:18.480
buttons and then run away.

870
00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:21.840
Yeah, it is a bit disappointing in that regard.

871
00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:26.579
But on the other hand, we have just had a year of stories where

872
00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:30.360
it's very rare that the doctor directly resolves anything.

873
00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:34.440
So if we look at, say, attack of the cybermen, he resolves it by

874
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:38.219
shooting a bunch of sidemen, if we look at vengeance on Varos, as

875
00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:41.099
you complained at the time, Nathan, he does nothing.

876
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:42.239
It's just market forces.

877
00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:47.280
Mark of the Rani, he does actually do something clever to sort out

878
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.159
the problem by fiddling with the Rani's controls, but again, it's

879
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.300
just pushing a bunch of buttons.

880
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:52.619
The 2 doctors.

881
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:57.599
It's kind of, oh, I think I teched the tech and now we're fine.

882
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:00.360
Timelash is just, oh, I'll explain that later.

883
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:03.059
I actually thought Timelash was the one where he solved the

884
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:03.719
problem probably.

885
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:05.639
I think that's the only time when it gets it, right?

886
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:06.840
And the revelation.

887
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:09.900
Yeah, just waits around until Tarkasson lilt phoned the Daleks.

888
00:42:10.019 --> 00:42:10.920
Exactly.

889
00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:13.739
Whereas, unlike here with Time Lunch, we actually see what he's

890
00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:15.539
doing to solve the problem.

891
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:17.699
He talks about containing the energy.

892
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.039
So we at least get some form of explanation.

893
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:24.300
And we get quite a good bit where Colin sends everyone else out of

894
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.219
danger while he continues working.

895
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.199
And as the doctor sort of staggers out.

896
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:31.619
He says, I just hope it was enough and runs away from an explosion

897
00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:34.019
behind him, which is a typical action trope.

898
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:39.840
But what I love about the story is the mysterious planet section

899
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:41.340
of the story.

900
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.199
It's delightfully uncomplicated.

901
00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:45.599
You know where everyone is at all times.

902
00:42:45.659 --> 00:42:48.179
You know what they're working towards, you know what each of the

903
00:42:48.179 --> 00:42:49.079
characters want.

904
00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:52.679
And when the doctor saves the day at the end, even though it's

905
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:53.280
word peril.

906
00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:57.659
You've heard exactly what the stakes are, you know that the doctor

907
00:42:57.659 --> 00:42:58.500
has to fix it.

908
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:02.820
And we are left with a little bit of a mystery at the end, and the

909
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:06.119
doctor identifies that in the dialogue, clearly telling us that we

910
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:07.320
should be concerned about.

911
00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:11.579
Who were the sleepers, what is Earth doing so far away from its

912
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:12.780
original position in space.

913
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:17.340
We do have the utterly stupid moment where you think, Valiard, what

914
00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:21.239
the hell are you doing, where he includes an inconsequential scene

915
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:25.139
that anyone reading lips could then figure out, oh, it's something

916
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:28.139
to do with the matrix, bleep, bleep, bleep.

917
00:43:28.260 --> 00:43:31.380
Yeah, we see, that's because the way the trial is structured is

918
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:37.079
it's 3 normal Doctor Who stories, surrounded by a framing device

919
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:39.179
that has nothing to do with those stories.

920
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:43.019
And so if this was sensible, if this was actually what was

921
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:46.739
happening, the vaniard would have picked something else that

922
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:49.320
didn't raise all these questions.

923
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:50.940
He would have just picked another incident.

924
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.679
I mean, what does this incident prove?

925
00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:54.480
It doesn't really prove anything.

926
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:58.739
And, you know, like what's the doctor accused of, meddling in

927
00:43:58.739 --> 00:43:59.699
other planets?

928
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:05.039
You know, well, you know, fling the savages DVD on or watch that

929
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:07.079
you know there's no point to picking this.

930
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:11.699
And so it doesn't really work raising that mystery.

931
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.039
And that mystery is so inconsequential.

932
00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:19.079
This could have been done as a kind of thriller, but no one's

933
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.179
competent enough to do that.

934
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:24.599
And so having this little bit of a mystery, introducing this sort

935
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.539
of weird thing about the sleepers and the matrix and all of that

936
00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:28.860
sort of thing.

937
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.619
In more competent hands could have paid off.

938
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.739
But, you know, in the context of the trial that we have just

939
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:36.539
literally makes no sense at all.

940
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.099
No, I agree completely with you.

941
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:40.619
Like, I mean, why should the valued even put it in there?

942
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:43.679
You're really just implicating ultimately the time lords of the

943
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.860
fans of the audience to sort of work that out, that there's

944
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:49.500
something wrong with this trial that's really about to begin

945
00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:52.019
because we've only had this investigation in these 1st 4

946
00:44:52.019 --> 00:44:52.440
episodes.

947
00:44:52.500 --> 00:44:54.780
It just makes no sense to even put it in the plot.

948
00:44:54.780 --> 00:44:57.059
If they're actually really thinking about what's going on.

949
00:44:57.179 --> 00:45:01.380
What I find so bizarre about the trial setup when we keep coming

950
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:04.380
back to it here is, I think it's the end of episode one where the

951
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:08.460
valiard says, you know, I suggest this inquiry becomes a trial and

952
00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:11.699
the court will demand your life, doctor, and we get our 1st grade

953
00:45:11.699 --> 00:45:15.119
Colin Baker, Zoom, cliffhanger of the season.

954
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:17.460
But when we come back in episode two.

955
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.699
The inquisitor says pretty much, no, it's an inquiry.

956
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:26.699
Shut up, but the rest of the remaining 13 episodes, then treat it

957
00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:31.619
like this is a situation where the doctor will lose his life if he

958
00:45:31.619 --> 00:45:32.579
is found guilty.

959
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.300
And it's like nowhere officially does that changeover happen.

960
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.539
It's just the Valleyard says, oh, wouldn't it be nice if we did

961
00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:39.840
this?

962
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:42.119
And the inquisitor says, no, it wouldn't.

963
00:45:42.179 --> 00:45:44.820
But then somewhere off screen, someone says, oh, no, yes, it

964
00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:45.059
would.

965
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:48.239
And it's like, that's not how the legal system works.

966
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:51.420
No, it's a space legal system. all work like that.

967
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:52.320
Even so.

968
00:45:52.380 --> 00:45:53.519
That's what I'm saying.

969
00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.739
She's totally inconsistent in what they give her in terms of

970
00:45:55.739 --> 00:45:56.340
dialogue.

971
00:45:56.460 --> 00:45:58.679
In one moment, she's complaining about things have been bleeped

972
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.079
and that's a concern and next moment in the next row will just

973
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:02.579
dismiss that, you know, don't worry about that.

974
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:05.099
She knows apparently what's happened to Perry.

975
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:06.059
We'll find that out.

976
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:09.420
You know, the doctor's been taken out of time and space. wouldn't

977
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:10.199
it be bets?

978
00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:12.179
Dirty be checked out medically or something.

979
00:46:12.179 --> 00:46:13.739
Somebody explained it.

980
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:14.639
That would have been interesting.

981
00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:16.380
Do you know what I'm saying?

982
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.019
Like, you know, some other space where we're going to, you know

983
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:20.639
doctor, you're here on this station for this reason.

984
00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:24.480
Like, none of that, it's all just, as you go along, ad hoc

985
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:24.719
whatever.

986
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:28.199
And it's just occurred to me that we have seen a trial on

987
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:30.480
Gallifrey before back in the deadly assassin.

988
00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:33.840
And even then, that was different from an earth trial in that you

989
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:36.420
had this semicircle of desks with everyone facing the people

990
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:39.480
talking and you had everyone standing around and it wasn't just

991
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.400
this neat arrangement of gold plastic.

992
00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:44.940
But again, remember, that's really urgent because you've got the

993
00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:46.559
election and all of that sort of thing.

994
00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:49.199
And so having them all stand around doing this really kind of

995
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.860
makeshift trial and the clock's ticking and all of that, I think

996
00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:55.440
that that's, you know, that is kind of different.

997
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.679
But the previous trial that we saw, you know, which was just

998
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:01.500
people standing in a negative space telling the doctor what a bad

999
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:05.400
boy he'd been, which made the time lords look powerful and

1000
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:06.059
imperious.

1001
00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:11.579
Here, you know, the trial is really not doing anything here.

1002
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:15.659
It occurs to me as well that that I mentioned in Deadly Assassin.

1003
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:19.500
There's kind of a parallel with the doctor here with the boatyard

1004
00:47:19.500 --> 00:47:21.599
knackers yard, graveyard, et cetera, et cetera.

1005
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:24.360
Because back in the deadly assassin, the doctor's drawing

1006
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.360
caricatures of the various people speaking against him.

1007
00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:30.539
But I think the important distinction there is, while the doctor's

1008
00:47:30.539 --> 00:47:33.179
doing that, no one's looking at it.

1009
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.039
It's not a declarative.

1010
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.019
Oh, look how stupid you look.

1011
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.699
I've drawn this picture of you.

1012
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.719
It's a thing that naughty children do to sort of get out their

1013
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:44.699
aggression and frustration.

1014
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:47.460
You know, it's a private thing like writing in a diary.

1015
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:49.860
Whereas the doctor's standing up and saying Nackers Yard

1016
00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:50.400
graveyard.

1017
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:54.780
It weakens the character because he becomes this name calling.

1018
00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:56.880
Kid, really.

1019
00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:00.900
I think, you know, those previous trials had plot reasons for

1020
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:01.320
existing.

1021
00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:05.159
The reason that this one exists is because there were previous

1022
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:07.800
trials, you know, in the show.

1023
00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:12.179
Yeah, yeah, time lords do trials or sit around and access the

1024
00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:12.659
Matrix.

1025
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:14.579
That's what time lords do.

1026
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.260
And that is all time lords do in the 80s.

1027
00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:20.760
Yeah, I'm super grateful to the Daleks for blowing those buckers

1028
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:21.599
up, to be honest.

1029
00:48:21.900 --> 00:48:23.940
Let's talk about ratings.

1030
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:26.159
Oh, it's been so long.

1031
00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:31.019
So I'm just going to say that the powers that be get their wish.

1032
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.719
They ever wanted to cancel the show because the show comes back to

1033
00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:37.320
4.900000 viewers for episodes one and episode two.

1034
00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:41.820
Now, episode one actually places 69th on the chart.

1035
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:46.500
Previous season, we had 8900000 and it came 71st.

1036
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:50.219
But, you know, nobody's going to worry about chart placings.

1037
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:51.840
It's all about bums on seats.

1038
00:48:51.900 --> 00:48:56.639
And Doctor Who is going up against the 18 again and the A team is

1039
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:58.800
getting close to 12000000 viewers, right?

1040
00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:03.300
So, in Doctor Who's defence, the show before it, Roland Rat is not

1041
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:05.400
even on the charts, like less than 2 million.

1042
00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:07.800
So Doctor Who's doing this heavy lifting to try and grab an

1043
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:08.280
audience.

1044
00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:13.679
But it's ITV's biggest night because blind date is on after the A

1045
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:18.000
team, which is their highest rated show on the network, like

1046
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:19.440
coming number 3 or something like that.

1047
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.840
So it's just up against it.

1048
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:27.780
Episode 3 and 4 then collapse in the ratings to 3.9 and 3.7

1049
00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:28.440
million.

1050
00:49:28.500 --> 00:49:31.440
Now, the last time we had those ratings were with Tom Baker, where

1051
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:33.599
he got an episode that got, I think, 3.7.

1052
00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:35.219
Now that came 180th.

1053
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:38.219
These ones came 98th and 97th.

1054
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:41.699
And they're the lowest placed episodes of the season.

1055
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:44.699
So if there's one thing about this season is that it doesn't drop

1056
00:49:44.699 --> 00:49:47.760
out of the top 100, unlike last year, which had 4 or 5 episodes

1057
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.699
out of the top 100, but most of the episodes this season are

1058
00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:53.219
between 80 and about and 98.

1059
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:59.400
Episode 5 will rebound to 4.8, but it's not until episode seven

1060
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.219
they get 5.1 million. the 1st time it breaks 5000000 in the

1061
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:02.460
season.

1062
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:08.099
So, you know, if they ever had a case to say, well, it's just not

1063
00:50:08.099 --> 00:50:10.619
popular, it's just not with people, here it is, you know?

1064
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:16.559
Unfortunately, Colin, won't realise it yet, but you know, he's the

1065
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:19.260
face of the show and the fact that they weren't willing to get rid

1066
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:21.960
of the producer and script editor, he's now on the chopping block

1067
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:23.099
with these ratings.

1068
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.320
We'll discuss that later on.

1069
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:28.980
The audience appreciation figures are interesting because the

1070
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:32.219
audience appreciation figures for this season are actually the

1071
00:50:32.219 --> 00:50:34.079
high 60s and the early 70s.

1072
00:50:34.139 --> 00:50:37.440
Now last year it was the mid to low 60s.

1073
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:41.340
And for Davidson, it was generally the mid to high 60s.

1074
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.219
So in fact, who's watching or whoever they're getting their

1075
00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:47.039
audience have actually liked it because it's not violent and it's

1076
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:48.119
funny and it's safe perhaps.

1077
00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:53.699
It's also that it's now so unpopular that it's Doctor Who fans

1078
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:54.539
still watching it.

1079
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:57.000
The lower the ratings get the higher, you would expect the

1080
00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:58.320
appreciation figures to get.

1081
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.199
But, you know, next year they're going to be in the high 50s.

1082
00:51:01.260 --> 00:51:04.440
And the other thing to remember about the audience appreciation

1083
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.360
index is it's a random sampling.

1084
00:51:06.420 --> 00:51:09.719
It's not a volunteer-based thing.

1085
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:11.280
And I believe it still works this way.

1086
00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:14.219
It's a bit like ratings boxes in Australia are a random sampling.

1087
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:18.360
Yeah, the audience appreciation index is the BBC contacting a

1088
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:21.360
bunch of people at random and saying, what did you think of this

1089
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.900
show out of a rating out of 10 or a rating out of a 100 and they

1090
00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:26.099
collate that information.

1091
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:31.500
I wonder if in terms of casual viewership, people enjoyed this

1092
00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:34.980
season more because even though it's not very good as a courtroom

1093
00:51:34.980 --> 00:51:35.519
drama.

1094
00:51:35.579 --> 00:51:37.619
It's more recognisable.

1095
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:43.019
So if someone was coming along and seeing this and they, for

1096
00:51:43.019 --> 00:51:47.639
instance, used to watch Perry Mason or watching reruns of it, they

1097
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.519
would look at this and go, oh, this is a courtroom drama.

1098
00:51:50.579 --> 00:51:52.860
I wonder what's happening and they might only watch one or 2

1099
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:56.219
episodes before they figure out that the mystery being developed

1100
00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.139
isn't very interesting.

1101
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.019
But for those one or 2 episodes, they're going, oh, well, why was

1102
00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:02.039
that bleep down?

1103
00:52:02.099 --> 00:52:03.659
Why aren't we allowed that information?

1104
00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:07.619
Why is the doctor saving the universe a bad thing?

1105
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:13.619
But it is really interesting that there's a 1000000 viewer loss

1106
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:16.139
for those last 2 episodes of this story.

1107
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:20.760
You know, and luckily it then doesn't recover as much as it can.

1108
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:22.920
I mean, the average for the season is actually 4.93.

1109
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:26.159
Which is not going to be much different from next season, which is

1110
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:27.360
4.96, I think.

1111
00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:31.800
But, you know, different factors are at play, but, you know, you

1112
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.460
have to say we took it off and it's come back and, well, there was

1113
00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:37.500
this outcry, but really, where have all the audience gone?

1114
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:42.420
Yeah But I do want to say this, that I really love the mysterious

1115
00:52:42.420 --> 00:52:43.199
planet, the story.

1116
00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:47.460
Yeah, and I personally, despite plot points or whatever, I

1117
00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:50.639
actually give Mysterious Planet 9 out of 10.

1118
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.699
The trial of a time order, episode's one to four.

1119
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:55.739
I give 7.5 out of 10 too.

1120
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:56.159
Yeah.

1121
00:52:56.219 --> 00:52:59.639
Yeah, I think the mysterious planet element of the story itself is

1122
00:52:59.639 --> 00:52:59.940
good.

1123
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:05.639
The trial scenes, while they are banal, are not too intrusive just

1124
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:09.179
yet, and as I said before, they're saved by the fact that we have

1125
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:11.340
3 very good actors performing in them.

1126
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:16.980
But a lot of the time, the commentary from them is just a little

1127
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:20.219
bit too on the nose. like I know what I just watched.

1128
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:25.739
But at the same time, I think as a kid, you might enjoy that

1129
00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:29.280
breathing space and you might enjoy the name calling and you might

1130
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.219
enjoy the fact that Michael Jason, his stillness.

1131
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:34.739
His facial expressions are so evil.

1132
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.380
You are left in no doubt that you are not meant to like this

1133
00:53:37.380 --> 00:53:37.980
character.

1134
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:44.699
I think again, Doctor Who is being made for, Not necessarily for a

1135
00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:48.059
younger audience, but with a younger audience in mind more so than

1136
00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:49.559
the previous 2 scenes.

1137
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:54.900
I think they have learnt something of a lesson and that making it

1138
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:59.940
less nasty and fixing the relationship between the 2 leads has

1139
00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:01.019
helped a lot.

1140
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:04.920
But I think it's a shame that they couldn't be just a little bit

1141
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.980
more imaginative because this is very, very routine.

1142
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:39.539
Hey, listeners, we're taking off from, uh, Errolox, or Raffle, or

1143
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:43.619
whatever it's called, and, uh, we found some rather nasty phases

1144
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:46.440
from the Warlords of Thordon, so we're gonna find out where

1145
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:47.280
they're coming from.

1146
00:54:47.340 --> 00:54:51.719
Do come back next week as we do that with Mind Warp or do we?

1147
00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:56.340
In the meantime, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entirety

1148
00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:59.460
sexy, Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE

1149
00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:01.860
podcast on Twitter over on Bond Finger.

1150
00:55:02.460 --> 00:55:06.300
We are in the midst of the incredibly lengthy Timothy Dalton era

1151
00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.139
of James Bond.

1152
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:10.380
You can find that at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and

1153
00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:12.719
iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

1154
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:16.619
Until next week, may you always remember the name of your blonde

1155
00:55:16.619 --> 00:55:17.280
serving boys.

1156
00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:18.599
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1157
00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:19.320
Good night.

1158
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:19.980
See you soon.

1159
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:24.059
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan

1160
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:25.500
Bottomley, and Brendan Jones.

1161
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:27.360
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1162
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:31.139
This episode, I'm supposed to be cross, was recorded on the 26th

1163
00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:32.159
of March 2017.

1164
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.099
The next episode will be released on the 7th of May.

1165
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.440
This episode of FTE was brought to you by Black Light Energy

1166
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:42.840
switched to Black Light Energy for cheap and abundant lower

1167
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:46.679
mission electricity, and a 50% rebate on your next bill if an

1168
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:49.079
unexpected outage destroys the entire universe.

1169
00:55:52.139 --> 00:55:55.079
I think we should go out on that, but I'm gonna ask a question

1170
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:56.460
that you might want to put beforehand.

1171
00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:01.079
So, Time to choose between the 2 alternative dimensions.

1172
00:56:01.139 --> 00:56:04.500
Would you rather have had the mysterious planet or the nightmare

1173
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:04.800
fair?

1174
00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:07.679
Mysterious planet.

1175
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:09.840
Nightmare Fair.

1176
00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:11.880
I'm mysterious planet as well.

1177
00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:16.860
We could have The Nightmare Fair episode one.

1178
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:21.840
Not only episode one, and just the mysterious planet, the actual

1179
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:25.800
segments we see, nothing to do with...

1180
00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:26.460
There we go.

1181
00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:27.000
Good.

1182
00:56:30.059 --> 00:56:30.719
Wrong.

1183
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:33.719
Wrong finger.

1184
00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:34.980
I was keeping that in.