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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:09:03

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through

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Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast who quite enjoys brain alteration.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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And after our spending 4 seasons accusing Doctor Who of playing a

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bit safe.

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It's bloody Mind Wharf.

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Before we get into some of the more traditional aspects discussed

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of this story, I just have to say, it's really well directed.

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The art direction is lovely.

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We've turned the lights down.

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Ron Jones has learned from vengeance on Barros, where sort of

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everything was various shades of brown.

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So instead we have dark blues and purples and bright pinks.

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We have curved sets like Crozier's laboratory.

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So he's really trying to get away from this notion of square walls

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and dank brown colours.

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The performances are fascinating to watch and mostly very good.

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The costume designs, great.

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The casting's excellent.

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Um, you know, Ron Jones is really back on form for this his last

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story.

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The music is extremely good as well.

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Richard Hartley, most famous for the Rocky Horror picture show, is

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the composer of this story.

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It's his only Doctor Who story.

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And he does a really great job of it.

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He gives the mentors a really sort of majestic theme, but at the

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same time, you know you're not meant to be rooting for them.

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Um, something I find fascinating that each time I watch this story

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is none of the villains come across as, you know, we're evil

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because that's the thing. really evil people don't believe that

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they're evil.

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In fact, I mean, is anyone really horrifically evil?

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I guess the mentors are, but they're more kind of, you know, money

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obsessed and kind of thoughtless and and, you know, lacking in

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empathy.

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They're amoral.

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Yeah, crozier.

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He's really amoral as well.

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Like, he is kind of a terrible person.

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But it's such a great performance.

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He's so good.

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Like when like when Kiv goes into cardiac arrest.

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And he finishes his tea before he does anything.

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Fish faced thing.

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I mean, whatever he says.

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He's got that way of delivering things, which is completely

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affectless.

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Like he shows no emotion at all and he's got a really growly voice

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and everything is played just super, super straight. and serious.

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I think he's really, really good.

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Yeah, yeah.

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He uses those eyebrows to crack effects too, in the latter

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episode.

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Like, you know, I think he gives Capaldi a run for his money when

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it comes to highbrow acting.

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Yeah, no, I think he's really tremendous.

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And, you know, Trevor Laird, who is in it much more than I

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remembered.

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And I was Frax, the guard captain.

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Yeah, who'll go on to be Martha's father, Clive, in the new

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series.

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I actually hadn't liked his performance as a child, but watching

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it now, I think he is extremely good.

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I think he's very good.

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And Tuza, who you said you liked during the live tweet, Brendan

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and I kind of slammed.

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I think he's actually not bad either.

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Which ones that?

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So he's the leader of the rebels.

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He's a bit he's a bit wet, but he's not as terrible as I

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remember.

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Okay, I just have to just say, I loathed him as a child.

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I thought he was a terrible terrible actor.

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He's come from the Jason Connery school of I'm a leader of the

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rebels acting, right?

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And we had a discussion about Martha's father and ages ago and I

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said, oh, he was terrible in mind warp, but I really liked him in

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the episode that we saw him in her time.

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So when I started watching this, I'm going, oh, I'm waiting for

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Martha's father, and I'm waiting for Martha's father, and, well, no

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I thought my, episode 3 is when, is it 2 turns up in episode

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three?

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And I went, hmm.

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I've been wrong all these years because that's not Martha's

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father.

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Who the hell is Martha's father?

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And I went, oh, it's actually...

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And I actually, well, I really liked him.

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So I was under this mistaken impression that Martha's father was

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the one I didn't like.

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There you go.

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He's super handsome too, I think.

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He's very pretty.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And he's really good in this.

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I think he's great.

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And he has a sort of strange, like he does get angry in things, but

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he's also a little bit sort of unflappable and stuff.

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No one's chewing the scenery apart from Sill and Kyv and they're

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self-consciously designed, I think, to be comedy roles, both of

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them.

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And they both play it extremely well.

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I mean, and the other old mentor as well, I found in episode four

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extremely funny too.

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I mean, it still has just some, you know, he's sucking up to Kiv

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and, you know, his dislike of Perry and, you know, there's so many

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you know, the great Morgo, how wonderfully wise.

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Like little lines like that, you know, he actually gets, I think

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well, is one of the most striking lines in the story, which is, and

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we'll obviously get to this again at the end.

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But that horrific final scene, which is, again, I think, extremely

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well done.

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And really like a huge gut punch.

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And he gets that comedy line about...

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I only wish you could have found a more attractive body.

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Yeah, more attractive body and he's kind of a bit embarrassed when

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he delivers it and it's a funny line and it really works in the

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context of this really, really horrendous, horrendous scene.

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It's so well done.

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The tone is sort of managed really well.

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There's a massive kind of feeling of impending doom hanging over

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all of episode four.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think what I said about this in the live Tweed along is the

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premise seems to be what happens in a Doctor Who story where

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everything goes wrong?

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Well, do you know what I think it is?

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I don't think it is quite that.

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I think that what happens is that the trial comes in and smashes

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this story to pieces and it does it both inadvertently and

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deliberately, but most obviously it comes in at the point where

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the doctor is about to mount a heroic rescue of his companion and

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he's pulled out of the story at that point.

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And so the story goes pear shaped.

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And the people at the trial claim that it was already too late, but

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that's not how Doctor Who works.

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We're supposed to think it's too late before the doctor comes in

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that's how, you know, the climax happens.

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So they deform this story.

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But I think the trial deforms the story on a much more fundamental

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level as well.

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Yeah, because we have these scenes where we're meant to wonder if

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what we're seeing is real or we're meant to wonder if the doctor's

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brain has been affected, but we never really get a chance to think

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about it for ourselves because we immediately cut back to the

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trial room with the doctor saying, no, that's not how it happened

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and the value of saying, yes, that is how it's happened and

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nothing is really brought to any conclusion.

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Of course, famously.

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Colin Baker sought answers for, okay, so in this scene where I'm

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interrogating Perry on the beach, is this really happening, is the

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doctor really mad?

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Is it a ploy?

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Has the content been manipulated?

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And Eric Saywood said, I don't know, go and ask the writer.

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And the writer Philip Martin said, I don't know, go ask Eric.

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See, I think that story is problematic because I think the script

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and again, I've really only noticed it this time, I think the

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script is quite clear what's happening.

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And I think what's definitely happening is that it is a ploy that

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the doctor is pretending to be in with the mentors in order to get

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close enough to them, to shut the thing down.

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And that also, as the doctor says, pretty much everything the

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doctor says in, I think it's episode 3 about what's going on is

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actually what's going on.

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So the matrix evidence is altered.

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And I think the most obvious place where it's clearly being

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altered is when Perry's tied up and being menaced by the doctor

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and the doctor bends in and sort of conspiratorially speaks to

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Perry.

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And we all expect, and I think this is a very well written scene

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as well.

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We all expect him to say, no, no, it's a ploy just playing along

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but he doesn't.

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And I think that we're meant to understand that that's been

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altered.

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Yes.

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And it's a real gut punch.

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It really works terribly well, except I think that scene is

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awful.

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Yeah, I agree with you.

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Not technically awful.

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But I didn't really want to see it.

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You know, we've seen back in the twin dilemma, the doctor being

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horrible to Perry, and I don't think we need to see it ever

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again.

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No, and particularly Perry being tied up and physically menaced

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again.

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Again.

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As a younger fan.

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I struggled with this story because when the doctor gets brains

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out.

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Yeah.

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Like, I'm very linear when it comes to things.

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And so when I originally watched this and for many years, it was

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sort of like, well, from this point to this point is when the

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Matrix is lying.

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And it's only really this time through that I've actually worked

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out and gone, well, no, the Matrix, sometimes is actually telling

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you the complete truth, and you can see it in Colin's performance

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like it's actually very doctor-ish, like in certain scenes. and

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you go, yeah, yeah, doctor.

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Then there's other scenes where he's quite blank and you kind of

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think, well, maybe there's some sort of bit of, you know

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manipulation there, but not too much, just a slight sort of, you

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know, something's happened.

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And then there's the full on, it's been completely changed.

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And it used to do my head in to try and work out when that was

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happening.

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And it is also, you know, the Doctor Who tradition is that up

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until a new series, everything was sort of presented to you as if

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you were there.

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You know, everything was deliberately representational.

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You never got any German expressionism in the sense that what we

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were meant to be seeing was reality and it wasn't really being

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distorted by the points of view of the characters.

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And this breaks that rule.

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Because much of what we see doesn't happen.

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But I actually think that there is a problem that Colin highlights

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in that anecdote that you told Brendan, in that I don't think

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Colin knows what's going on in the script.

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And so consequently, the whole thing is muddied by a performance

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that isn't really telling the story that the script is telling.

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So Colin plays it in a bunch of different ways.

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There's his really, really funny comedy way that he plays it

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immediately after the episode one mind jolt thing where he, you

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know, um, your carnos goes on about getting weapons and he goes

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weapons, you know, we'll...

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No you wouldn't.

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And he's really funny and silly.

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And, you know, that Colin Baker comic timing is perfect.

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And that works, you know, we've just had his brain altered, and I

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think probably that's intended to happen.

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Then when he meets still in the induction centre, and he's like

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super over the top pantomime.

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I'm evil and I only look out for myself, which is not, it's not a

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subtle or convincing performance.

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And it's hard to know what's going on.

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And then after that, he switches back to just being completely

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doctor-ish.

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Yes.

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And quite likeable.

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And like, I don't know what that middle performance is.

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And then it's muddied by the fact that when the doctor shoots the

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rock in episode one, he's clearly seen to point the gun at the

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rock and deliberately press the button, and then he denies that on

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the trial and says it was an accident.

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00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:25.679
And when he originally says it was a ploy, he's playing it like

253
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.919
he's lying or he's trying to convince himself.

254
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:31.320
Yeah, like he can't really remember.

255
00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:32.700
He's come up with his story.

256
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:36.539
But that is, I think, what we're meant to understand is

257
00:12:36.539 --> 00:12:36.899
happening.

258
00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:40.620
But because Colin doesn't play it with any conviction, it kind of

259
00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:41.639
muddies the waters.

260
00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:45.600
And, you know, it is the director's job, I think, to have an

261
00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:49.379
opinion and to direct Colin and say what's going on.

262
00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.740
And that's why I can't agree with Brendan that this is well

263
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.340
directed by Ron Jones in every respect because it's his job to

264
00:12:56.340 --> 00:12:57.960
work this out as the director.

265
00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:01.679
And in my opinion, inform the lead actor what is actually going

266
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:01.919
on.

267
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.759
And the direction of that scene with Colin with the thing.

268
00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:09.120
That would have been, you know, he is the director, should have

269
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:10.320
found a way to make that work.

270
00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:15.059
Yeah, well, I mean, the way to make it work with the phaser being

271
00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:18.419
accidentally discharged is to show the doctor holding the phaser

272
00:13:18.419 --> 00:13:20.460
but then when the phaser goes off to have it off screen.

273
00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.000
Well, I think the problem is that the phaser is a physical prop

274
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.259
where a button needs to be pressed in order for it to light up.

275
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.840
If like the doctor's fighting the rock, right?

276
00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:34.320
And the phaser is above his head and then slowly he brings his arm

277
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.980
down to offscreen and then you hear the gun go off.

278
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.600
So you can't see whether it's deliberate.

279
00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:41.340
You can't see whether it's deliberate or not.

280
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:47.399
I would like to think from an in universe point of view that that

281
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.759
is the 1st indication that stuff's been tampered with, but

282
00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:54.059
unfortunately, I do have to agree with you there, Todd, that I

283
00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:57.600
think it's just Ron Jones has screwed up a bit there, because

284
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.379
something we've discussed with Ron Jones is he's just, he's not as

285
00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:05.460
stylistic as, say, Graham Harper or Fiona coming, you know, he

286
00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:06.720
points the cameras and he shoots.

287
00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:10.919
He's done a great job on the design here and for most of the

288
00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:11.460
cast.

289
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:13.139
He's done a great job on characterisation.

290
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.500
I totally accept that column and he's dropped the ball there and

291
00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:17.879
yeah, also with the phaser sequence.

292
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:18.600
Yeah.

293
00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:20.399
But I mean, I'm going to go back.

294
00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:22.799
To your point about Colin, I think there's a lot of lightness in

295
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:23.039
here.

296
00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:27.360
I love his, like, the skedaddle test and the old young Crozier and

297
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.259
he gets the direction wrong where he's going and that's happened

298
00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:33.419
in the previous story and will happen in the next story.

299
00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.100
And I think it even happens in the 4 story.

300
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:36.419
Like this is this little...

301
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.480
Yeah, well, I think that that's one of his strengths is when he's

302
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.120
less competent, you know, he's super blustering and stuff, but

303
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.000
he's actually rather silly and a bit incompetent sometimes.

304
00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.299
And I think he plays that so well and it is so terrifically

305
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:48.899
likeable.

306
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.840
And the other thing that he does, which I think you pointed out in

307
00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.620
the live tweet, Brendan, is where the companion says, let's leave

308
00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:56.639
or something like that.

309
00:14:56.700 --> 00:15:01.919
And he just goes, hmm, and doesn't listen and sort of carries on

310
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:02.700
regardless.

311
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:06.720
And he doesn't seem obnoxious or arrogant there.

312
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.940
He just seems rather sweet and preoccupied.

313
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:10.080
He's in his own little world.

314
00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:10.860
Yeah, yeah.

315
00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:13.320
And I think all of those things are really good.

316
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:15.480
There's really a lot to say for this.

317
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:19.740
You brought up something about his, the face that he gives Sill in

318
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.980
episode 2 when the turncoat doctor.

319
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:27.899
And it's sort of, is it coquettish sort of face this turns and

320
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:29.340
looks at him, does this sort of look?

321
00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:32.940
And I, every time I watch this, it always jumps out at me is why

322
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:33.720
are you giving that face?

323
00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:34.500
Yeah.

324
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:37.500
Well, that whole pantomime thing where he says, oh, I look out for

325
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:38.759
myself now and all of that.

326
00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:40.860
Like, still's not stupid.

327
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.720
I don't know what Colin is doing there.

328
00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:45.720
And I don't find that to be necessary, Colin's fault.

329
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:47.639
The director needed to say, well, look, we're not going to use

330
00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:48.000
that take.

331
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:49.200
We're gonna do something different.

332
00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:54.120
And also too, when SIL offers the doctor later on his marshmallows

333
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.000
and the doctor takes that and there's his expression of absolute

334
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.039
disgust that comes over the doctor's face.

335
00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:01.200
To me, that's always the point in the story where I kind of think

336
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.139
the doctor's brain suddenly, what the effect of that thing has

337
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:07.440
suddenly kicked it in like suddenly he's himself again, you know

338
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.980
it's just, it's just, in that moment, I just kind of go, you've

339
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:11.940
suddenly recovered.

340
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:18.000
Yeah, because that's the 1st indication to us that Colin is faking

341
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.759
it in order to impress Sill.

342
00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:24.840
But I think the script is clear that all the way through Colin is

343
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:29.039
pretending to be cooperative in order to get close enough to the

344
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:30.779
mentors to bring them down.

345
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.620
And, you know, by the end, by episode 4 where he breaks your

346
00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:38.820
carnos out of the cell and does the typical doctor-ish thing.

347
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:41.340
He's going to bring the mentors down, and of course, that's what

348
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:43.559
he was going to do all along because he's the doctor.

349
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:49.080
And unlike Philip Martin's previous script, it's going to give the

350
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.399
doctor a heroic moment in which he overthrows the government by

351
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.899
doing something positive, except that the trial, you know, blunders

352
00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:58.980
in and wrecks the whole thing.

353
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.519
I have problems with the trial in this quite a bit because at

354
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.519
times, like in the 1st episode, the sagacity.

355
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:06.539
We get this word sagacity.

356
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:07.259
What does that actually mean?

357
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.180
It just means sort of wisdom.

358
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.160
Yeah, she's wise, sagacious.

359
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:15.539
You know, and the doctor complains about the actual trial again.

360
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.480
And so it sort of undermines it.

361
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:23.460
And then in episode 4 when everything goes wrong and sagacity

362
00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:26.940
steps in to say what actually happened, I kind of think, is it

363
00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:29.579
actually her dialogue, shouldn't it be the valid saying this is

364
00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:32.519
because he's representing the high council, but she's saying it

365
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.059
and she's known it all along since the last 7 episodes, but said

366
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:37.140
you know, nothing to the doctor.

367
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.900
And so at times I kind of think she's actually working against the

368
00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:41.519
doctor in these episodes.

369
00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:44.880
I think it's just them dividing up the dialogue so that Michael

370
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.700
Jason doesn't have to do a big info dump at the end.

371
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:48.240
But you're right.

372
00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:51.960
It's wrong to give her that dialogue. because she's the judge.

373
00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:55.920
Not necessarily this should be the 1st time she knows about it, but

374
00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:01.619
in order to be impartial, She needs to consider the evidence as it

375
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:04.920
happens, as it were, rather than having this preconceived thing

376
00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.160
that she's going to pull out and say to the doctor, ah, but this

377
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:12.720
improper legal circles, the prosecution and defence share evidence

378
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.640
before they go into the courtroom.

379
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:19.259
Well, we've already established, I think, a. not properly... to

380
00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:19.980
hear how trials were.

381
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:25.259
There's... years ago on Outpost Galafrail Gallifray Base, and I

382
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:27.779
apologise for bringing this up without remembering who you are.

383
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:31.019
So dear listener, if you're the person who came up with this idea

384
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:31.740
please let us know.

385
00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:37.079
Someone said the way they would improve trial is that Mysterious

386
00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:39.839
Planet and Mind Warp would just be ordinary Doctor Who stories, no

387
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:41.339
trial scenes whatsoever.

388
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.420
Then at the end of Mind Warp, the doctor gets abducted, and the

389
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.660
end of Mind Warp is, as we see what happens to Perry, but it's

390
00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:51.480
also the doctor stumbling into the courtroom for the 1st time, and

391
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.220
them saying we had to intervene.

392
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.059
This has gone too far.

393
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:55.559
You are now on trial for your life.

394
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:59.220
At the beginning of the next episode, we have a recap of clips

395
00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:03.119
from the 1st to 8 episodes and the trial of a time lord is only 6

396
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.980
episodes long as a season ender.

397
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:12.420
Someone on YouTube has actually re-edited the End of Mind Warp as

398
00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:13.019
a cold open.

399
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.660
So with the doctor stumbling about and then being dragged into the

400
00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:19.859
Tartars, and then into the space station, and then the titles kick

401
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:19.980
in.

402
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:25.079
Although I have to say that that scene, like the music, I think, in

403
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:28.319
that scene really, really sells it. and Colin just walking

404
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:33.539
backwards into the TARDIS and the music's really terrifying and

405
00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:35.099
funereal.

406
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:42.900
And I actually think that it's very clear to us that something's

407
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:47.519
going to go wrong much, much earlier in the episode than the

408
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:52.619
doctor's abduction because the whole thing is set up as a race

409
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:53.099
isn't it?

410
00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:59.640
Um, we know that Crozier wants to implant Kiv's brain in Perry's

411
00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:01.259
body, but the doctor doesn't know that.

412
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.680
Crozier suggests it to the doctor and the doctor really

413
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.680
unconvincingly tries to tell him, and no, that's a terrible idea.

414
00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:09.359
She's a woman, such a flippity.

415
00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.839
Yes, yeah, but what he doesn't know is that he knows that Perry's

416
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.839
been taken from the cell, but he doesn't know that Crozier has

417
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.240
decided that she's a perfect donor and that he's going to go ahead

418
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:18.720
with it.

419
00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:23.400
And so he lets your Karnos, gives your Karnos his head a bit and

420
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.279
you know, goes and frees the slaves and trades jokes with the

421
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:27.660
mentor and stuff like that.

422
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:31.380
And he's not moving urgently enough.

423
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:35.460
And so we're worried that he's going to come too late to save

424
00:20:35.460 --> 00:20:36.359
Perry.

425
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:40.140
And the moment that they say shave her head, and then we can't

426
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:43.019
back to her and we see that her head's been shaved and she's in

427
00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:44.160
that helmet.

428
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.619
It's kind of, what are they going to do?

429
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.180
Like, that's really it.

430
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:53.819
And so for about half the episode, if not more, we know that this

431
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:55.859
story is going horrifically wrong.

432
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.640
And I think we'll talk about whether we think this is a good idea

433
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.500
or not later, but it's so good and so terrifying for such a long

434
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:04.920
time.

435
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:09.059
You know, it's the 1st time that um, you know, that this show has

436
00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:14.339
made me feel so, so incredibly anxious, um, just watching it.

437
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:17.220
And my 1st experience watching it.

438
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:20.519
Do you remember when it 1st came out, Todd, it was shown on

439
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:23.220
Saturday night and they edited 2 episodes?

440
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:24.240
double episodes, wasn't it?

441
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:28.440
Yeah, so there are cliffhangers, all of the odd-numbered stories

442
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.160
episode cliffhangers I actually don't know as well because I

443
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:33.660
watched this over and over again.

444
00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.920
But I recorded it and I'd had terrible experiences trying to

445
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.619
record Doctor Who. still really angry about snake dance episode

446
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:43.740
one, which I thought I would never, ever get to see again when the

447
00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:44.579
video failed.

448
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.759
So I had to walk the dog while it was on.

449
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:49.079
And so I walked the dog.

450
00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:49.859
I got back home.

451
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.319
I saw that the tape had recorded, so I just rewound it a few

452
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.440
minutes to see whether it had recorded okay.

453
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:02.039
And Colin said, you killed Perry.

454
00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:07.859
So I've never watched this kind of unspoiled, unfortunately.

455
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.819
It's so funny because when I was watching this as a kid, we had to

456
00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:14.339
go out to somebody else's house for a dinner party.

457
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.380
So I had to record it.

458
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:17.700
And I didn't set it correctly.

459
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.460
I didn't, you know, VCR things were very new.

460
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:21.839
Do you know what they are, listeners?

461
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:22.619
Do you know what they are?

462
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.759
But luckily when we were over there, one of they had one kid

463
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:27.900
similar age.

464
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.500
And so I managed to wrangle, we need to watch Doctor Who.

465
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:32.700
So I actually managed to watch it.

466
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:35.400
I mean, if I hadn't have watched it, then I wouldn't have got to

467
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:35.759
watch it.

468
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:40.200
That was how I watched episode some 13 and 14 and we had to go to

469
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.619
someone's place and they heard that I'd been watching this for 6

470
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:47.099
weeks and it was the final episode and they kind of had pity on me

471
00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:47.880
and let me watch it.

472
00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:52.140
This is when I had great difficulty watching as a child, not

473
00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:55.740
because I didn't have it, but just because the visuals of the

474
00:22:55.740 --> 00:23:00.059
opening episode and those dark colours and the rock and sort of

475
00:23:00.059 --> 00:23:02.279
you can't quite see what's happening in the fight thing.

476
00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:03.420
That all scared me so much.

477
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:09.240
I have a memory of the 1st time I tried to rewatch it because I

478
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.460
think I mentioned with Frontier, so it was a handful of Doctor Who

479
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:14.160
stories, which I didn't watch for about 5 or 6 years because they

480
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.119
had scared me so much.

481
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:16.380
And this was one of them.

482
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:23.220
And when I was on this particular rewatch, there was a massive

483
00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:27.599
storm brewing outside and I was sitting on the sofa under a Duna

484
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:28.740
my parents were out somewhere.

485
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.119
I think it must have been school holidays.

486
00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:34.500
And yeah, so watching Mind Walk with a massive storm raging

487
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:34.859
outside.

488
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:35.880
It was brilliant.

489
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.220
Brendan, you're not allowed to watch that one.

490
00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:42.359
It does begin very brightly, however, on the beach.

491
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:48.180
I think that's kind of unsuccessful, but I'm grateful that they

492
00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:48.900
attempted it.

493
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:52.680
And I think the planet in the distance behind the TARDIS looks

494
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:53.099
terrific.

495
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.460
You know, they were trying new technology again, which, of course

496
00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:58.799
they used also the beginning of episode one.

497
00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:00.599
They're trying to push the envelope on those things.

498
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.660
They do that more successfully in greater show in the galaxy a

499
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:05.400
couple of years later with the planet in the background.

500
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:09.119
But here all the blues and the pinks all blend in, so you can't

501
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:10.559
tell half the time what's going on.

502
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:13.559
But it's nice to have some outside location work.

503
00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:14.220
Yeah I agree.

504
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:16.740
Can we talk about some of the other characters?

505
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:17.400
Sure.

506
00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:17.880
Go for it.

507
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:20.099
So I like the leucosa.

508
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.839
I think he looks fantastic.

509
00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:23.519
I think the makeup is really strong.

510
00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:24.420
He's a werewolf.

511
00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:26.160
Hey, it's a great performance.

512
00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:26.700
Yeah.

513
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:29.640
And makeup is also, I think, pretty, it stands up today.

514
00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.240
I think so too.

515
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:33.119
And the fact that he always has his mouth open, like that's the

516
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.599
actor doing it, he's always baring those teeth so you can see them

517
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:37.200
all the time.

518
00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:41.759
And that little bit where, you know, Carnos and he fights over

519
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:48.059
Perry, like where Perry's patting the dog and and Jochanus kind of

520
00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:51.660
turns on him for paving like a dog and he just goes jealous, you

521
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:51.900
know.

522
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.700
Like all of that's very sweet.

523
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:55.980
I think he's a really, really good character and a great

524
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:59.579
performance and I'm really kind of sad when he dies. yeah, yeah.

525
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.880
And Brian's reaction as he a carnos to that.

526
00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:06.299
Like, he's clearly grieving, but at the same time, he's kind of

527
00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:08.759
happy that his friend has died a warrior's death.

528
00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:09.539
Like he deserves.

529
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.720
That's a wonderful scene, actually, because he's really he's

530
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:13.319
really shaken.

531
00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:14.339
Yeah, yeah.

532
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:18.599
I often think that critics of this particular story just go, oh

533
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.420
Yukanos is like so over the top and just dominates everything.

534
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.119
But when you actually watch this show, Yes, there's the big

535
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.700
moments, but then he pulls it back and there's a warmth and

536
00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:28.859
there's a real character going on there and I really like what he

537
00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:29.039
does.

538
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:30.660
I think he's extremely good.

539
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.000
And it's something that Brian Blessed always does very well.

540
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:36.000
I mean, not when he's the king in Blackadder, but when he's

541
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.680
Augustus in I Claudius, sometimes he's hugely big and bombastic

542
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.480
and terrifying and loud.

543
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:46.440
But he's got that very soft voice that he does where he pictures

544
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:50.819
it a little bit higher, and he does this as Jocanos, and I think

545
00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:52.019
he's extremely good.

546
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.220
And I think pairing him with Nicola Bryant is genius.

547
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:57.839
It's extraordinary.

548
00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:00.779
Like her performance in this entire story is phenomenal.

549
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:06.059
Perry, the way which Perry is written and combining her with him

550
00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:07.980
and just the whole interaction.

551
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:13.740
And, you know, you look at the interviews on the disc and how he's

552
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:17.339
you know, Brian just talks about, you kind of been in love with

553
00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.380
Perry, but of course Nicola's going, I don't buy it.

554
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.619
But in the performance, I actually buy it, that there is a

555
00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:26.519
connection there and he loves her and maybe she can learn to love

556
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:26.880
him.

557
00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:31.619
Like, I can see why later on, decisions are then made to try and

558
00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:33.299
make a lovey dovey.

559
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:35.519
I can see why they, you know, we're going to try and wrap it up in

560
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.920
a bow, but it's a great dynamic.

561
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:39.000
Yeah, I agree.

562
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:42.180
And giving her in her last story, someone like him to play off.

563
00:26:42.299 --> 00:26:45.720
Like, if you think about it as, as, you know, Perry's story, the

564
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.140
last time she really sees the doctor, the doctor's betraying her

565
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:53.579
and that's kind of awful, and that he doesn't come through and

566
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:54.119
save her.

567
00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:58.440
But Jocanos and her are really funny, like she bosses him around.

568
00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:00.660
She gives as good as she gets.

569
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.339
She's still kind of scared of him.

570
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.960
But that scene, you know, the way that she tells him off, the way

571
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.539
that she uh, she sort of patronises him.

572
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:13.380
And then that scene, and it's super cheesy and corny, you know

573
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:17.819
what is this earth thing you call love, that final scene, and the

574
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:21.960
music is kind of treakly and stuff, but it is so good.

575
00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:24.240
And she's so terrific in it.

576
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:28.019
It's the best example I've seen of that kind of, what is this

577
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:32.759
other thing you call love scene because they don't come to the

578
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.180
same understanding of what love is, but they just accept what the

579
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:37.079
other person's saying.

580
00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:42.960
Like that wonderful bit where, yeah, he passionately believes in

581
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.619
why fighting is a good thing and he makes a good case for it.

582
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:49.140
And then he says, and then when we die, we fight some more, and

583
00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:50.579
she just laughs her head off.

584
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.960
Yeah, of course you do.

585
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:56.400
And it is also, because it's so dark and doom laden at that point

586
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:01.380
she kind of exposes his whole belief system as just sort of

587
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:05.039
fundamentally futile and sort of crazy, but the response to that

588
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:08.039
is just to laugh at how absurd it is.

589
00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:10.859
And he laughs and there's a real warmth between them.

590
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:16.019
It's a really, really great scene, which could, like on paper look

591
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:17.640
you know, horrifically cheesy.

592
00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:21.359
And then the other thing, when she's taken out of that cell.

593
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:25.500
And I think they spoil this for me like completely in episode 12.

594
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.039
But that scene where he says die well, my lady.

595
00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:34.140
And she's leaving, and being very brave, and they touch one

596
00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:34.859
another's hands.

597
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.140
I think he's so good.

598
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:42.000
And for such a big cartoon character is your Canos, to dial it

599
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.420
back so much and to have a little bit of sort of realism and

600
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:46.079
warmth there.

601
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:46.980
I think is really good.

602
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:50.640
You know, if you've got the opportunity to cast Brian blessed to

603
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.440
do something like that, then you do it.

604
00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:53.640
You know, he's really good.

605
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:56.819
It's astounding that he'd never been in Doctor Who before, and

606
00:28:56.819 --> 00:28:57.720
he's really good in this.

607
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:00.900
There's a real strength to pair in this, which harks back to

608
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:01.799
Planet of Fire.

609
00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:03.960
Like, you know, the spunk that she had back then.

610
00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:06.960
And you can see the maturity in the character now, especially in

611
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:08.640
laughing with Yakana.

612
00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:11.279
So, you know, once you probably would have not reacted that way.

613
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:15.779
Yeah, and I just think Nicola just, you know, this is this is her

614
00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:16.079
moment.

615
00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:16.619
Yeah.

616
00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:22.799
And it, of course, leads up to the horrific death and her being

617
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:24.539
actually Nicola playing Kiv.

618
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:26.819
Yeah, so this is horrible.

619
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.920
She's like mentally annihilated and then has her body taken over

620
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.500
by a creepy old man, and this is just the culmination of the many

621
00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:41.640
creepy old men that had wanted to get their hands on her body, and

622
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:44.940
it is, you know, exactly where the character's been going right

623
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:46.559
since her 1st episode.

624
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:51.480
She exists to be manhandled by men and it's awful.

625
00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:56.099
And, you know, we complained that Liz Sladen's character had a

626
00:29:56.099 --> 00:29:59.640
terrible time travelling with the doctor, but no one has had a

627
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:00.900
worse time than Perry.

628
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:04.200
And no one's bodily autonomy has been threatened in the way that

629
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:05.460
Perry's has.

630
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.279
And this is the culmination of all of that.

631
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.960
But her performances Kyiv is actually nothing like Christopher

632
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:16.740
Ryan, who's really funny and silly and a great comedy role.

633
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:21.299
So there's a sense in which it doesn't work in the story.

634
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:26.759
But it's a grotesque and terrifying performance which she pulls

635
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:28.440
off in the most amazing way.

636
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:34.019
And her final line when your carnos breaks in, which again is

637
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:37.859
heartbreaking given the tender way that they parted and what he's

638
00:30:37.859 --> 00:30:38.460
forced to do.

639
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:42.180
Like, it's such a good choice, and it is, again, giving the chance

640
00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:46.559
for Nicola to do some really, really fabulous, terrifying acting

641
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.779
and to drop the accent as well.

642
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.440
Protect me or I'm your lord and master.

643
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:53.220
Yeah, yeah.

644
00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:58.680
And really well played by Brian Blessed as well, who has to have a

645
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.940
big reaction to it, but he doesn't just scream no, like he's Ewan

646
00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:04.440
McGregor shouting at a green screen.

647
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:08.160
His face crumples and he shuts his eyes.

648
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.420
He doesn't want to see it and then he jumps into action and just

649
00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:17.819
destroys everything because there's no point anymore.

650
00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:24.119
Um, the conclusion I came to with this one is just, it's actually

651
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:30.059
a really, really, really well-made Doctor Who story. which should

652
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:30.900
never have been made.

653
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:32.579
Yeah, it's a horrific mistake.

654
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.200
And I think it's bizarre.

655
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:36.660
Look, I think killing the companions is always, always a bad

656
00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:37.140
idea.

657
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.220
And they kind of get away with it with Adric because he's part of

658
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:43.920
an ensemble and because no one really liked him very much.

659
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:48.599
But with Perry, she's been a character that we've known for a long

660
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:48.960
time.

661
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:51.539
She's been someone that we like and is plucky.

662
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.539
We've got a backstory, you know, she's a student, she was

663
00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:55.140
travelling.

664
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:59.880
And like I believe that what you need to do with the companions is

665
00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:03.960
to show that travelling with a doctor makes their lives better.

666
00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:08.400
And they don't always successfully do that in the new series, but

667
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:11.940
that seems to be kind of the idea.

668
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.759
I don't think the companion should look back on their time with

669
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:16.019
the doctor and regret it.

670
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:20.940
Because, you know, like I want to travel with the doctor and you

671
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:22.200
want to travel with the doctor.

672
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.500
Yes, yes.

673
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.539
And like if they don't appreciate it, it was like what we said

674
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.019
about having a reluctant Tegan, you know, we want to travel with a

675
00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:28.380
doctor.

676
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.440
If Tegan doesn't want to travel with a doctor, we don't like her

677
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.779
but we can't sympathise with her.

678
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:37.500
And so that's a problem and they eventually solve it with Tegan

679
00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:39.480
because they drop all that nonsense quite soon.

680
00:32:39.539 --> 00:32:43.740
But having this likeable companion, the only companion who's

681
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:46.500
travelling with the doctor at the moment, the only person who saw

682
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:50.099
him regenerate from Pete into Colin, you know, the doctor's only

683
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:50.460
friend.

684
00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:53.460
This is not a time where there are secondary tertiary characters

685
00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:54.420
that the doctor knows.

686
00:32:54.900 --> 00:33:00.720
And to do that to her in the most horrifying way possible, I just

687
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.119
think is a really, really bad mistake.

688
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:07.380
And it's something that the show hasn't done since.

689
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.099
Like the show has had upsetting companion departures and sort of

690
00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:14.759
slap dash crappy companion departures as we see next year.

691
00:33:14.819 --> 00:33:19.619
But this is a big nasty, cynical mistake.

692
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:24.660
Do you think because of the nature of the trial and what they're

693
00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:28.380
trying to go for, like all roads led to this point because of the

694
00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:30.539
way in which he set it up and wanted it to happen?

695
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.200
Well, I think they choose, like they choose to do a story where

696
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:39.900
the trial breaks into the show and ruins it.

697
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:43.259
And, you know, so they fridge her in order to make the doctor

698
00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:44.940
upset in the next story.

699
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:50.160
And they throw it away much worse than they do in, um, oh, what's

700
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.720
the plasmaton story, Brendan?

701
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:52.380
Time fly.

702
00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:53.160
Time fly.

703
00:33:53.220 --> 00:33:56.039
You know, where we're all off to the Great Exhibition and we've

704
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:57.900
completely forgotten Adrik 5 minutes in.

705
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:01.140
And they even lampshade that, you know, at the beginning of terror

706
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:04.619
of the vervoids where the Valiard complains that we've just, you

707
00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:06.839
know, he's a new companion.

708
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:08.159
Yeah, that's right.

709
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:11.579
And we're supposed to assume that some time has passed.

710
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.519
The doctor's been off preparing his defence.

711
00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:15.599
The court's been in recess.

712
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:18.300
We haven't, you know, there's been weeks or whatever.

713
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:19.860
And that's cheating.

714
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:20.699
That's not good enough.

715
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:25.679
And it is kind of an admission that really we're not interested in

716
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.619
the companion as a person or as a character.

717
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.920
And the introduction of Mel, and we'll talk about this next week

718
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:34.079
really kind of cements that.

719
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:36.840
You know, we don't really care what her relationship with the

720
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:40.380
doctor is provided there's a woman to be kind of captured and

721
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:43.380
menaced and scream and ask the doctor questions.

722
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.820
We're fine.

723
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:49.380
Yeah, the problem is, if you look at, say, Star Trek Next

724
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:52.079
Generation, which at this stage is just around the corner, in the

725
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.380
1st year of that, we have skin of evil, where Tashi Yar is killed

726
00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:58.739
midway through an episode, and even though the plot has to be

727
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:03.239
resolved, the nature of the show then allows them to discuss

728
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.880
Tasha's death and have a funeral scene at the end.

729
00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:08.219
And it's also not forgotten.

730
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.639
There are several episodes after that that bring up Tasha.

731
00:35:11.699 --> 00:35:15.360
Like her sister is in an episode when data is asked about his

732
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:16.139
humanity.

733
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:20.400
He relates the fact that he and Tasha were briefly involved and

734
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.579
he's also reluctant to, so, you know, she's a real person.

735
00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:28.559
After the best of both worlds, where Picard is kind of killed and

736
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.260
resurrected as a Borg and then brought back.

737
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:34.800
We have a whole episode dealing with the emotional fallout of

738
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:35.159
that.

739
00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:37.320
Doctor Who doesn't do that.

740
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:41.340
Doctor Who can't do that by its nature of being this series where

741
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:43.139
we go off and have rollicking adventures.

742
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.639
Even in the new series.

743
00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:50.880
Okay, so Rose's dad dies, Pete Tyler, we kind of have some stuff

744
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:53.460
dealing with that, but even then it's just 5 minutes in an episode

745
00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:55.139
and it's to move the plot along.

746
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.139
Donna's death of personality.

747
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:02.400
You know, again, we don't have a cliffhanger leading into the next

748
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.000
doctor.

749
00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:05.400
By the time in the next doctor, we're meant to believe some time

750
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:06.119
has passed.

751
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:10.679
With Amy and Rory dying, if you like.

752
00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:13.920
Again, some time passes before the next episode.

753
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:18.719
When Clara dies, the doctor gets his memory wipe.

754
00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:22.500
So the show, the show sets up these whole things of companions

755
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:26.519
dying or being in some way inaccessible and not being able to

756
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:28.860
continue their relationship with the doctor.

757
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:33.480
But because of the nature of the show that all has to be swept

758
00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:34.320
under the carpet.

759
00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:37.920
It's actually a problem with the very premise of the show, isn't

760
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:38.099
it?

761
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.119
So when the show starts and the doctor can't control the TARDIS

762
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:46.920
then he can't go back and see how Barbara and Ian are going on

763
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:48.659
earth and he can't drop them off.

764
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:54.719
And then once he can control the Tartars, he kind of becomes a

765
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:58.019
horrible person for never going back for Sarah Jane Smith.

766
00:36:58.019 --> 00:36:59.880
He has to drop her off.

767
00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:03.659
He's got no choice, but he could go back and visit it, but he

768
00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:04.380
chooses not to.

769
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:09.059
And the new show tries to interrogate that, but not really very

770
00:37:09.059 --> 00:37:12.719
successfully, certainly not in a way that makes the doctor not

771
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:13.980
appear callous.

772
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:18.119
And you have this series of companions in the new series who

773
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:21.179
declare openly that they'll never stop travelling with the

774
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:21.599
doctor.

775
00:37:21.659 --> 00:37:25.559
And so they have to be prevented from travelling with him in these

776
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:30.300
sort of increasingly complicated and baroque ways.

777
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:36.000
I think that maybe Martha's departure is handled the best.

778
00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:37.739
I agree with you with that.

779
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.000
She makes a choice.

780
00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:42.480
Yeah, and it's not that she doesn't like the doctor or she regrets

781
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.500
her time with the doctor, but something inherent in her character

782
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:49.679
which is looking after people, the 1st time we see Martha, she's

783
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.400
managing her family on the phone and that's what she leaves to

784
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:53.639
do.

785
00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:56.639
And it's a choice that's presented as a positive choice, something

786
00:37:56.639 --> 00:38:01.019
that she should do, is leave the doctor to look after her family.

787
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.860
Andrew Hodson, friend of the podcast, has a theory which he calls

788
00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:09.900
contract roulette, which is the companion will just leave on

789
00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:13.559
whatever planet the story happens to be set when their contract

790
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:14.280
runs out.

791
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:16.679
And that explains Stephen.

792
00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:19.739
It is the only explanation for what happens to Mel.

793
00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:24.000
Yep, it's literally the explanation for what happens to Vicky.

794
00:38:24.059 --> 00:38:24.719
Yeah, yeah.

795
00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:25.380
And Dodo.

796
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:27.300
Ben and Polly?

797
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:28.139
Ben and Polly.

798
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.599
Yeah, you know, they just leave wherever they happen to be.

799
00:38:30.659 --> 00:38:32.820
And it works out for Ben and Polly.

800
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:35.579
It kind of works out for Doto because that story is on earth.

801
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.699
It's weird that even at this stage of the program, they would

802
00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:41.760
never think to shoot something on a city street that just goes for

803
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.340
5 minutes where the doctor drops someone off at the end of a story

804
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:48.360
like he does to Rory and Amy in the god complex.

805
00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:50.639
And I guess he does that to Sarah.

806
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:54.960
Yeah, I mean, it was after Mind was produced, but not that long

807
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:58.860
after because the ultimate foe was actually shot next.

808
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.900
Episodes 13 and 14 was shot after this.

809
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.860
And it was during the production of that, that JNT said, oh, maybe

810
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:09.059
we've gone a bit far and let's add in that stupid little love

811
00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:10.139
heart vignette.

812
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:13.019
And that's that scene which I talked about before.

813
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:14.940
That's the die well, my lady, see.

814
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:18.960
And I think that's ruined by that marriage thing.

815
00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:23.460
And I think the marriage compounds the problem that Perry has, for

816
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:28.679
all of her run, been someone that men lust over, and that's what

817
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:29.460
happens to her.

818
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:30.300
She gets married off.

819
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:34.980
I have a problem with it because she's essentially disappears from

820
00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:37.619
a holiday and she's never seen her again.

821
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:38.579
You know?

822
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.760
Like her family get no closure, you know?

823
00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:42.780
And there's no thought about that.

824
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.079
You know, if they're going to do it, maybe they could have just

825
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:49.619
said something along the lines, like you actually defeated the

826
00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:51.659
mentors and saved Perry, but she wanted to leave.

827
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:52.559
She'd had enough.

828
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:53.519
You returned it to earth.

829
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:56.639
And, you know, and not they couldn't have shot that.

830
00:39:56.699 --> 00:39:57.480
Do you know what I mean?

831
00:39:57.539 --> 00:39:59.099
Like, it's not like they couldn't have shot that.

832
00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:03.119
But I guess the problem with that is that there were so many

833
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:07.320
problems with Eric Saywood leaving and having to get Pip and Jane

834
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:09.960
to write an episode in 4 days and, you know, all that sort of

835
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:10.139
thing.

836
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:13.139
So, you know, but again, it comes down to the fact that this whole

837
00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:17.099
season should have been completely written before a single frame

838
00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:17.880
was shocked.

839
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:18.539
Yeah, exactly.

840
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:19.260
They had the time.

841
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:23.280
You know, if they'd thought 3 weeks before, when they did

842
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:26.639
eventually think of, oh, you know, let's marry Perry off to Brian

843
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:29.039
Blessed, if they'd thought of it while they were still shooting

844
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:32.039
Mind Warp, they could have said, you know what, let's shoot a

845
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:36.300
scene where the doctor bursts into the lab and grabs Perry and

846
00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:39.780
runs out again and tag that on the end of part 14.

847
00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:40.500
Yeah.

848
00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:42.179
You know, the doctor says to Male, right?

849
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:44.099
I'm dropping you off in your proper timeline and then there's

850
00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:44.820
something I have to do.

851
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:49.739
But the show isn't interested in the stories of the characters at

852
00:40:49.739 --> 00:40:50.280
this point.

853
00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:53.340
They really just perform a plot function.

854
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:58.739
And I think even at the time, that was kind of unsatisfactory

855
00:40:58.739 --> 00:41:03.599
particularly, I think, because JNT had done such a good job at the

856
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.800
beginning of the 80s, making us care about the characters.

857
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:11.219
Again, you know, like Nissa leaves in terminus because of contract

858
00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:12.239
roulette.

859
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:19.079
But they do kind of sort of attempt to set up her departure.

860
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:22.079
And I think we talked in the actual episode about how they could

861
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.960
have done that better, how they could have given her a bit more

862
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:28.139
agency rather than just, I'm staying here because they're not

863
00:41:28.139 --> 00:41:29.099
going to pay me next week.

864
00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:32.639
But, you know, Turlow's departure is sort of well set.

865
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:36.599
Tegan has given a great leaving scene, which critiques the program

866
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:38.099
you know, and works really well.

867
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:40.800
Niss is a rival as well handled.

868
00:41:40.860 --> 00:41:43.739
Tegan's arrival as well handled, all of that stuff about the

869
00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:46.860
companions, which is kind of, I think, a reaction against the sort

870
00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:50.400
of rather slapdash approach that Graham Williams had taken. you

871
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:54.239
know, I'll wait, we forgot to book Mary for next year.

872
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:58.500
You know, we, oh, we forgot to book John Leason for next year.

873
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:02.219
You know, like that was all sort of very slapdash and there's, of

874
00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:05.519
course, the, you know, horrifically insulting departure of Leila

875
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:07.679
which is just appalling.

876
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:12.360
So John Nathan Turner does a good job of that at the beginning, but

877
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.539
now it's just all gone to hell, I think, in the trial.

878
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:21.480
And the trial is also the 1st time, too, that Doctor Who hasn't

879
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:23.940
been a series of adventures presented chronologically.

880
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.900
The 1st time explicitly that we now have a whole bunch of Doctor

881
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:32.400
Who stuff that we haven't seen and things that we haven't seen

882
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:36.179
properly and things that we have to conjecture happened because

883
00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:39.179
the show's been careless or presented out of order.

884
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.960
So like Mel's arrival is never seen, for instance, and that's a

885
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:43.380
mess.

886
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:48.480
And we never see them getting to know one another. you know, we

887
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.579
don't know what happens after he leaves the trial.

888
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:53.940
Like there's a big kind of hole in the kind of story that's told

889
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:56.880
by Doctor Who as a result of the trial.

890
00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:57.780
Yes.

891
00:42:57.780 --> 00:42:58.739
It's a mess.

892
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.599
We've said that last week.

893
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:01.920
The trial part of this is a mess.

894
00:43:01.980 --> 00:43:02.699
Yeah, yeah.

895
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:06.179
Only you talked about the incidental music and how wonderful do

896
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:06.719
you think it is?

897
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:10.980
I'm not as enamoured with it in this story.

898
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:15.300
I like the stuff at the end, but the actual transition from the

899
00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:17.400
trial back into the evidence.

900
00:43:17.460 --> 00:43:20.639
There's this sting that he uses in this story.

901
00:43:20.699 --> 00:43:23.039
Actually, they do it in all three, but in this one, there's this

902
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:24.300
diddle-lun, or something like that.

903
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:32.099
I don't know what it is, but every time I watch this story, I

904
00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:35.340
actually get a headache, halfway through episode three, it's

905
00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:36.119
just...

906
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.159
I think it's because you're channelling the mentor from episode

907
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:39.000
four.

908
00:43:39.059 --> 00:43:43.500
I have no idea, but that piece of music just drives me insane for

909
00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:44.280
the rest of the story.

910
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:53.159
Something I actually quite like about the some, a couple of the

911
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:54.599
trial room scenes in this one.

912
00:43:54.659 --> 00:43:57.300
There's one particular one where we come back to the trial room

913
00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:02.159
and we're focussing on the screen and Colin jumps up into shot and

914
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:06.179
the camera moves over to him and the composited shot of what's

915
00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:08.820
happening on the trial screen moves in the correct way as well.

916
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.460
And Colin says, I don't remember that.

917
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:16.739
It's one of the very few dynamic shots in this courtroom set and

918
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:17.340
it works well.

919
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.300
I think too, the scene where Perry is picking her way through the

920
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:24.239
sea and then we come back to the trial room and the vision

921
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.480
continues on the screen while some kind of action and dialogue is

922
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:28.320
going on in the trial.

923
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:30.119
That's the 1st time we've seen that.

924
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:31.980
That doesn't happen in the mysterious planet.

925
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:35.400
But in spite of that, I think that the trial scenes are more

926
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.519
ineptly directed than they were in Mysterious Planet.

927
00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:42.300
I agree with you because you get to see the black floor and the

928
00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:45.239
joins with the wall. and it's just like, really?

929
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:48.000
Like, you know, I think Nicholas Mellon was trying not to show

930
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.760
that, but Ron just plonks the camera and there it is.

931
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.219
I think we said last week, didn't we, that it would have been

932
00:44:53.219 --> 00:44:56.460
better to have the trial scenes directed consistently by one

933
00:44:56.460 --> 00:44:57.360
director.

934
00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:57.960
That's right.

935
00:44:58.019 --> 00:45:01.320
And you know, bring in a really good director to do that.

936
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:04.139
Bring him Graham Harper or Fiona coming, even though you're giving

937
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:06.420
them a pretty rubbish job to do.

938
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:11.280
Give it to someone who will, if you like overdirect those scenes

939
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:14.579
and not just go, right, it's a room with 3 walls, they'll go, right

940
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:17.460
well, what if I, you know, what if I shoot from down here and hold

941
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:20.460
the camera up at a 45 degree angle and that sort of thing?

942
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:24.239
Because all you've got is 3 people standing or sitting in boxes

943
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:26.760
talking and you've got to do something with that.

944
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:28.860
Ratings.

945
00:45:30.179 --> 00:45:31.860
They did go up.

946
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:36.539
So after last week's disaster of 3.7, it jumps up to 4.8.

947
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.199
Then it drops back to 4.6, 5.one and 5 million.

948
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:45.239
So it takes 7 episodes to break the 5000000 barrier and it sort of

949
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:48.840
places, the 1st episode 76, the rest are all in the 80s.

950
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:52.860
Is the publicity at the time, you know, that a new story is

951
00:45:52.860 --> 00:45:53.400
starting?

952
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:55.440
A new piece of evidence?

953
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.500
Because it is a sort of a part one sort of spike, isn't it?

954
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:02.400
So they try and sell it like, it's a new story, but you've still

955
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:06.179
got that whole trial. five, part six, part seven, part eight.

956
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.940
Yeah, no, I mentioned last week, the thing before Doctor Who

957
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:10.019
wasn't even on the chart.

958
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:12.119
So Doctor Who's doing this heavy lifting to try and get the

959
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:12.900
audience to watch.

960
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:16.079
But anyway, you know, it takes, as I said, 7 episodes to break

961
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:17.400
that 5000000 barrier.

962
00:46:17.460 --> 00:46:19.679
But at least it's gone up from the threes.

963
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:24.960
So overall, like, if you were giving a mark of this story out of

964
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.239
10, what is a place for you, like, as a story?

965
00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:29.519
For me, it places at a six.

966
00:46:29.699 --> 00:46:35.039
And that's mainly because of the ending.

967
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:40.320
If the ending had later been modified with the doctor actually

968
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:43.320
rescuing Perry, I'd rate this story much higher.

969
00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:46.860
It's a bit like in the new series, Sleep No More, when they were

970
00:46:46.860 --> 00:46:49.380
talking about doing a sequel for Sleep No More, to actually

971
00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:52.739
explain what was going on in it, I reserved judgement on it, but

972
00:46:52.739 --> 00:46:54.900
Mark Gaterson said, no, we're not doing a sequel.

973
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:58.139
So Sleep No More is in my bottom 5 Doctor Who stories of all

974
00:46:58.139 --> 00:46:58.320
time.

975
00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:00.119
Mind Warp isn't.

976
00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:04.500
You know, mind warp, it's, for me, a 6 out of 10 because there are

977
00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:07.739
so many things it actually does well and so many good elements of

978
00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:07.920
it.

979
00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:13.800
It just falls apart in the last 5 minutes because it's going

980
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:15.780
against the traditions of Doctor Who.

981
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.260
But it's not critiquing the traditions of Doctor Who.

982
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:23.760
It's just saying, how about we do a story where we kill the

983
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:28.679
companion because um, an external force acts on the doctor?

984
00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:29.519
Okay, lunch.

985
00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:33.840
If you're gonna break the conventions of Doctor, in the way

986
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:34.559
Earthshock did.

987
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:38.519
You have to think about why you're doing it because Earth Shock

988
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:40.320
gives Adric a journey.

989
00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:43.260
It gives a foreshadowing to what's going to happen.

990
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:47.460
Mindwarp gives a foreshadowing to what's going to happen to Perry

991
00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:52.019
but also everything in the plot implies that, no, no, that's not

992
00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:52.500
going to happen.

993
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:53.219
That's not going to happen.

994
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:54.960
And then it pulls out the rug from under you.

995
00:47:55.019 --> 00:47:58.500
And it feels unfair to the viewer.

996
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:03.000
The 1st 95 minutes of this story are presenting a different idea

997
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.320
to the last 5 minutes.

998
00:48:04.619 --> 00:48:09.179
And there's not enough critique of the convention, the doctor, to

999
00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:10.739
justify the bait and switch.

1000
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:13.739
I can't give it a mark out of 10.

1001
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:15.059
No, no, no, no.

1002
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:20.820
I never do, but I think it's mostly well directed by Ron Jones

1003
00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:23.280
certainly better than his previous story.

1004
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:25.440
It's better than Philip Martin's previous story.

1005
00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:27.300
I think the sets look great.

1006
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:31.860
I think Colin is good despite the flaws in his performance, which

1007
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:32.820
weren't his fault.

1008
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:34.860
I think the music's good.

1009
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:39.960
I think pairing up Perry and Brian Blessed is a stroke of genius.

1010
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:41.460
Seal is great.

1011
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:43.079
Christopher Ryan as Kiv is great.

1012
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:45.360
I think it's got an enormous amount going for it.

1013
00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:50.099
And I would put it up there in Colin Baker stories with 2 doctors

1014
00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:52.260
or Revelation of the Daleks.

1015
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:56.400
I think it's an extremely good story, but I think it's massively

1016
00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:00.480
horrible and cynical and it really, really exemplifies everything

1017
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.059
that I hate about this particular era.

1018
00:49:03.179 --> 00:49:05.460
So like I enjoy watching it.

1019
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:08.219
I enjoy experiencing that feeling of impending doom.

1020
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:10.980
I think it's amazing, but it's such a bad idea.

1021
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:14.760
I agree with like 90% of what you're saying.

1022
00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:19.320
I'd probably, by the end of it, my head, as I said, I get a

1023
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:22.079
headache and I'm always, I feel it's a bit all over the place.

1024
00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:25.139
I love so many elements of it and there's other things where I'm

1025
00:49:25.139 --> 00:49:27.780
well, basically the trial stuff where I'm going, yeah, really.

1026
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:29.820
So I'm getting this one a 6.8.

1027
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:33.300
Which is down from my 7.5 from last week.

1028
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:35.219
So very finely calibrated.

1029
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:37.679
I am very finally calibrated on these ones.

1030
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.559
For me, this is the weakest segment of the trial.

1031
00:49:41.099 --> 00:49:43.739
And I thought that's something I'd never say.

1032
00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:16.320
Well, there is now we're taking off from Forrest.

1033
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:17.340
Beta, I think.

1034
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:18.300
I'm not sure.

1035
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:19.260
I can't quite remember.

1036
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:22.559
But please come back next week, as I think we all deserve a bit of

1037
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:25.980
a cruise, so I booked us all some cabins on the Hyperion 3.

1038
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:27.960
Don't worry about your room numbers, because we'll just be able to

1039
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:29.460
get into any room we like.

1040
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:29.940
Anyway.

1041
00:50:30.780 --> 00:50:32.760
Do come back for that.

1042
00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:36.840
You can find us at flight through entirety.sexy, flight through

1043
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:40.199
entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1044
00:50:40.260 --> 00:50:45.300
This week, we also announce our upcoming Tom Baker commentary, and

1045
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:47.159
the 4 options are...

1046
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:49.320
The hand of fear.

1047
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:54.599
The Sunmakers, The Stones of Blood.

1048
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:57.659
And the horns of Nimon.

1049
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:01.199
You can find a link to the poll in the show notes and also at

1050
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.059
flightthroughentirety.sexy.

1051
00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:08.940
Over on Bondfinger, we are in the midst of the Timothy Dalton era

1052
00:51:08.940 --> 00:51:11.820
so that's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and

1053
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:13.739
Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

1054
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.039
Until then, may none of your borrowed bodies be obsessed with

1055
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:17.400
fish.

1056
00:51:17.460 --> 00:51:18.900
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1057
00:51:19.019 --> 00:51:19.800
Good night.

1058
00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:20.280
See you soon.

1059
00:51:22.019 --> 00:51:26.400
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley

1060
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:29.400
and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1061
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.639
This episode, Dark Colours, was recorded on the 1st of April

1062
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:33.420
2017.

1063
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:36.659
The next episode will be released on the 14th of May.

1064
00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:42.840
This episode is dedicated to the memory of Moray Watson, who

1065
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:46.019
passed away this week, and who was so lovely and charming in Black

1066
00:51:46.019 --> 00:51:46.860
Orchid.

1067
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:47.940
Thanks, Sir Robert.

1068
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:48.780
You were a hoot.

1069
00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:55.920
Mind Warp, 1st of April, 2017.

1070
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:04.320
Maybe we should have a 1st of April kind of joke, another thing.

1071
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.739
The new doctor's going to be played by.

1072
00:52:07.739 --> 00:52:12.179
This is the best show in the history of Doctor Who.

1073
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.639
Sorry, April Fool.

1074
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:19.139
No, Bob just said, I preferred to Trial of Time Order is the best

1075
00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:23.039
story of the 1980s and I just had to refrain from saying, really

1076
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:25.199
you know, the competition isn't all that.

1077
00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:29.340
But the competition does include enlightenment, for God's sake.

1078
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:31.619
Oh, let's see.

1079
00:52:31.619 --> 00:52:32.940
Snake dance.

1080
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.340
Like through entirety, April, April fool's gag.

1081
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:37.500
We're finally having a homosexual of the show.

1082
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:40.860
Imagine that.

1083
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:44.219
Applied to Entirety has its 1st straight companion.

1084
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.280
Today is heterosexual day here at Flight.

1085
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:50.340
That's it. scratching my balls as we speak.

1086
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.099
Oh, great. you recording this?

1087
00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:56.940
And it's up to him whether it goes in or not.

1088
00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:58.800
We're in trouble.

1089
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:00.480
Okay.