WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:10:44

1
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.179
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through

2
00:00:33.179 --> 00:00:33.719
Entirety.

3
00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:37.259
The only Doctor Who podcast whose syllogism merely requires its

4
00:00:37.259 --> 00:00:38.280
grim conclusion.

5
00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:38.939
I'm Brandon.

6
00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.320
I'm Nathan I'm Todd.

7
00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:42.119
And do we know what a syllogism is?

8
00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:44.759
Would you like to explain to the listeners at home?

9
00:00:44.820 --> 00:00:48.539
So you have 2 sort of statements that are logically connected that

10
00:00:48.539 --> 00:00:50.939
lead to the truth of a 3rd statement.

11
00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:52.679
So all men are mortal.

12
00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:56.219
Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal.

13
00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:57.899
Elephant to pink.

14
00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.640
Nelly is an elephant, therefore Nelly is pink.

15
00:00:59.700 --> 00:01:00.119
Exactly.

16
00:01:00.179 --> 00:01:04.200
Well, in this case, our facts are that we are a Doctor Who podcast

17
00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:08.219
we have covered every story to date up to an including mind warp.

18
00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:10.859
So the grim conclusion is it means it's time for terror of the

19
00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:11.640
vervoids.

20
00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:27.060
Right, what can I just say?

21
00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:27.959
A few things at this point.

22
00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.040
No.

23
00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:30.299
Oh thank you.

24
00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:36.659
One, the Bogus Megarian did not switch on his translator.

25
00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:38.939
Two.

26
00:01:39.060 --> 00:01:41.099
I'd never been to Stella Stora.

27
00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:42.840
You're obviously confusing me with someone else.

28
00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:45.480
Three.

29
00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:48.359
Compliments. are undergoing a change.

30
00:01:49.260 --> 00:01:51.959
You should see the faces, dear listener.

31
00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:56.219
Because it was on a previous time, the doctor's path crossed

32
00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:56.459
mine.

33
00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.159
I find myself in a web of mayhem and intrigue.

34
00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:03.180
You know, I really like the line about the guy being pushed into

35
00:02:03.180 --> 00:02:05.640
the pulverizer and in my book, that's murder.

36
00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:10.680
And of course, when exactly does Edwards want Mel to break her

37
00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:10.919
neck?

38
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:15.360
I never realised that like at the end of that cliffhanger, until

39
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:19.620
it was pointed out by the commentary or whatever it was, that he's

40
00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:22.439
obviously going to murder people and do things, but you know, he

41
00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:23.159
gets killed first.

42
00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.400
There is a slightly more innocent interpretation of that sentence

43
00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.400
which is we don't want you breaking your neck, at least not until

44
00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:30.780
you're not my responsibility.

45
00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:33.659
I think he was being cute and funny there.

46
00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:35.159
Yeah, yeah, cute.

47
00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:37.680
It's funny by taking her down a Darkened Dally and talking about

48
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:38.580
breaking her neck.

49
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.439
Is he a member of Gamer Gate or something?

50
00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:41.580
He is charming.

51
00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:45.539
So Todd, I think he might be pinpointing a really horrific flaw in

52
00:02:45.539 --> 00:02:49.139
not only this story, but in fact, the rest of the trial.

53
00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:51.780
Well, that is written by Pip and Jane Baker.

54
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:55.740
Terrible, terrible dialogue He's not signing on as a martyr yet

55
00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:56.159
you know.

56
00:02:56.219 --> 00:02:58.620
I'm not going to completely diss this story.

57
00:02:58.740 --> 00:02:59.340
Okay.

58
00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:03.000
I have alluded to the fact before that I really have not liked

59
00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:03.479
this.

60
00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:07.319
And if I watch it in isolation, I probably give it about a 6.5 out

61
00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:07.500
of 10.

62
00:03:07.740 --> 00:03:10.560
But when I find that I actually watch it after Mind Warp, I

63
00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:13.199
actually give it a bit more, like 7.one, I actually enjoy it more

64
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.900
than mine more, perhaps because of its simplicity.

65
00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:19.919
But I do find it's like this deck of cards that has been set up

66
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:21.659
you know, with different beats along the way.

67
00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:24.960
And you just have to flick one of the cards and that whole premise

68
00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:25.860
just falls apart.

69
00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:29.340
I mean, I have to give some kudos to Pip and Jane Baker that they

70
00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:32.400
asked to come in and write this after, you know, other writers

71
00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:38.039
fail to be able to deliver a script or or at least, you know, other

72
00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:42.060
writers fail to deliver a script that Eric Saywood was prepared to

73
00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:42.780
go with.

74
00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.460
Okay, yeah, that's fair enough.

75
00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.520
I think that you've identified something good about the shift in

76
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:53.699
tone at this and it's commented on in the trial where the Valiant

77
00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:58.259
asks the doctor, is his defence that he improves.

78
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.939
And it is, you know, very definitely, we've had a horrifically

79
00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:08.340
cynical story that exemplifies all of the horrible things that

80
00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:11.219
have gone on in this era, particularly with the mistreatment of

81
00:04:11.219 --> 00:04:15.780
Perry, but also with that just, say, would adolescent cynicism

82
00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:18.000
that's plagued the story for quite some time.

83
00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:21.360
And this is actually a real relief from that.

84
00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:24.480
Yeah, I think that's what I get when I get to it.

85
00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:26.519
It is a relief from that oppression.

86
00:04:26.579 --> 00:04:28.680
And so he's not around because he's quit.

87
00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:33.180
Now, this was filmed 4th after the ultimate faux episodes 13 and

88
00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:37.620
14, which, of course, led to Eric leaving as script editor.

89
00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:42.660
As you alluded to, they had horrible troubles filling this slot in

90
00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:43.079
the season.

91
00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.300
So initially they thought they could have 2 connected 2 part

92
00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:51.660
stories using the same sets, much like the Ark and Space and

93
00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:52.740
Revenge of the Cybermen.

94
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:53.819
Or the Ark.

95
00:04:53.819 --> 00:04:55.079
Or the Ark, indeed.

96
00:04:55.139 --> 00:04:56.459
Who are the writers?

97
00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:59.699
The writers were David Halliwell and Jack Trevor story.

98
00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:01.259
So both completely new to Doctor Who.

99
00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:05.279
David Halliwell came up with full scripts.

100
00:05:05.339 --> 00:05:09.300
They do exist for a two-part story called Attack of the Mind, which

101
00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:11.699
dealt with the Freds and the Penelopeians.

102
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:16.019
The Freds are tunnelling Rodent Society, and the Penelopeans are

103
00:05:16.019 --> 00:05:19.500
these beautiful people and who say they're under attack from the

104
00:05:19.500 --> 00:05:22.199
Freds, but actually they're using their psychic powers to attack

105
00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:25.259
the Freds, and the doctor and Mel barely escape having caused a

106
00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:25.860
civil war.

107
00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.560
So it was another piece of prosecution from the valiard.

108
00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:32.100
The 2nd coming, which, as the title suggests, was meant to be the

109
00:05:32.100 --> 00:05:35.519
doctor coming back, there's not much known about it because Jack

110
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.240
Trevor Story, the writer, according to Eric Saywood, couldn't get

111
00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:41.939
his head around writing for Doctor Who and would just get fixated

112
00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:43.379
on just images.

113
00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:46.199
Like, sort of Eric would say to him, like, okay, what are you

114
00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:46.620
considering?

115
00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.860
And he'd say, I'm considering a man playing a saxophone in a

116
00:05:49.860 --> 00:05:50.519
gasometer.

117
00:05:50.699 --> 00:05:53.459
And Eric would say, and the story?

118
00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:55.620
Yeah, well, that's coming, you know.

119
00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:56.879
So that got rejected.

120
00:05:56.939 --> 00:06:00.779
So, Eric thought, let's go with an experienced writer and

121
00:06:00.779 --> 00:06:02.759
approached Christopher Hamilton Bitmead.

122
00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:04.079
Didn't he just say no?

123
00:06:04.139 --> 00:06:07.980
No, no, he came up with an idea called The Last Adventure, also

124
00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:14.519
known as Pinacophica, which was to be set in a museum of key times

125
00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.079
and places within history.

126
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.240
And again, full scripts of that were written.

127
00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:23.160
But Eric didn't reject it by talking to Bidmead.

128
00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.779
Eric said to John Nathan Turner, this is boring and unuseable.

129
00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.740
Bid me then contacted the production office a month later to say

130
00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:32.879
to John, I haven't heard from Eric.

131
00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:37.620
Now, the next story to be commissioned for this slot was Paradise

132
00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:40.019
5, which one of the missing audios.

133
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.500
Yeah, which due to the unavailability of Bonnie Langford, they

134
00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:45.480
adapted instead with Nicola Bryant.

135
00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:47.339
And that's quite good.

136
00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:48.839
It's written by P.J.

137
00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.420
Hammond of Sapphire and Steel and Torchwood fame.

138
00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:52.860
You know, it's not brilliant.

139
00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:54.540
It shares some similarities with this.

140
00:06:54.660 --> 00:06:56.819
But the creatures in there could never have been realised.

141
00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.279
No, they were sort of chariubs who could speak.

142
00:06:59.339 --> 00:07:05.459
So with all of those falling through, they turned to Pip and Jane

143
00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:09.300
Baker to write this story very quickly, as you've said, Todd, and

144
00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:12.600
also with John Nathan Turner script editing rather than Eric

145
00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.300
Saywood, because Eric Saywood had left and was just about to do

146
00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:16.439
his tell all interview.

147
00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:19.800
Did say would commission Pip and Jane Baker or did that all happen

148
00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:20.639
after he left?

149
00:07:20.699 --> 00:07:24.000
No, I think he commissioned them because I think the scripts came

150
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.439
in and he just, that was it.

151
00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.620
Yeah, he just kind of went, yeah, all right. regardless of what

152
00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:31.800
else he may have thought, he did also know they were a pair of

153
00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:32.220
safe hands.

154
00:07:32.699 --> 00:07:37.500
And it is a competent script and it does do some things, you know

155
00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:38.759
that don't happen in this era.

156
00:07:38.819 --> 00:07:42.060
I've complained that these stories are always set in underground

157
00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:46.379
space tunnels that all look the same to Perry and that sort of

158
00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:47.939
nasty, cynical things happen.

159
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:50.639
You know, they set up this world and then just have the doctor run

160
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.579
around being captured and menaced and escaping and that kind of

161
00:07:53.579 --> 00:07:55.079
thing and nothing really happens.

162
00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:59.399
Whereas this story develops a bit and it does have a mystery and

163
00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:02.100
like various different things happen.

164
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.819
I just love your face as you're describing this because it's like

165
00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:08.399
you're screwing up your face going, ooh, you know?

166
00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:10.620
Yeah, look, I don't think it's great, and it's certainly not

167
00:08:10.620 --> 00:08:11.220
inventive.

168
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:16.439
I guess the best analogue from a previous story is robots of death

169
00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.339
where you've got people on a confined luxury vessel being picked

170
00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:21.600
off one by one.

171
00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:25.500
Here, it's a little bit more diffuse because you've got Raj, and

172
00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:28.980
you've got Howard, and you've got Lasky, and you've got the

173
00:08:28.980 --> 00:08:31.500
Megarians, you know, you've got a whole bunch of people who all

174
00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:34.139
want to take over the ship for one reason or another.

175
00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:38.100
So it's not particularly clear, but it does mean that a bunch of

176
00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:40.080
different things go on.

177
00:08:40.139 --> 00:08:43.799
And so it's not just a sort of linear capturing and escaping

178
00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:44.340
plot.

179
00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:46.320
In fact, it's not really that at all.

180
00:08:46.379 --> 00:08:48.360
Like the doctor doesn't get captured at all.

181
00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:53.100
Mel gets knocked out. once, but essentially they're given free run

182
00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:56.159
of the ship and they get to find out what's going on.

183
00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:57.659
They investigate things.

184
00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.419
And then given the free run of the ship, because the doctor has

185
00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:02.820
met Tonka Travers.

186
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:06.419
What a name. his old friend.

187
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.659
And it's one thing that I absolutely detest in Doctor Who when we

188
00:09:09.659 --> 00:09:10.559
meet an old friend.

189
00:09:10.620 --> 00:09:16.919
And he's also met Mr. Hallett, who he describes as being, he

190
00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.360
admired him or some such thing.

191
00:09:18.419 --> 00:09:21.840
And unfortunately because of the casting of the most pathetic

192
00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:22.200
actor.

193
00:09:22.259 --> 00:09:24.899
You just kind of think, why is the doctor, why does the doctor

194
00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:26.100
admire this man?

195
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.200
Because he's just he's just a cretin?

196
00:09:28.259 --> 00:09:31.860
See, for once, I don't have a problem with, you know, the doctor

197
00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:34.860
running into old friends because we already know that this is at

198
00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:36.120
some point in his future.

199
00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:40.019
And as you said last week, Nathan, it gives us gaps in the

200
00:09:40.019 --> 00:09:42.299
doctor's timeline where we can imagine this has happened.

201
00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:44.220
And I don't know.

202
00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:49.679
I think possibly also because of the relationship between the

203
00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:53.940
doctor and Travers, it does feel like 2 people who've met before

204
00:09:53.940 --> 00:09:57.059
you know, it's not the people of Carfell saying, oh, doctor, you

205
00:09:57.059 --> 00:09:59.580
know, you came here several generations ago, but there's no

206
00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:00.600
chemistry between anyone.

207
00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:06.299
Because Colin is now in full-blown, cuddly Colin mode, you know

208
00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:10.620
he's lovely and he's sweet and he's silly and Travers is just like

209
00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:12.059
I don't want you on my ship.

210
00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:14.639
For God's sake, why are you here?

211
00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:17.399
Like Michael Craig is playing at Lake Judith Lucy, and it's rather

212
00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:17.879
fabulous.

213
00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:20.220
I think the relationship between the 2 is good.

214
00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.539
I think I agree with Todd, that having the doctor made 2 old

215
00:10:24.539 --> 00:10:28.440
friends is incredibly lazy, and we did see that in the pretend

216
00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:31.919
season 23 that never happened, which was just lousy with the

217
00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.620
doctor meeting old friends in sort of every story.

218
00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:38.340
But it does give us a bit of shorthand.

219
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.340
You know, it's the psychic paper for this episode.

220
00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:45.120
It's why he doesn't have to prove himself to the authorities.

221
00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.000
And the relationship between him and Michael Craig's character is

222
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:48.360
pretty good.

223
00:10:48.419 --> 00:10:49.559
It is, actually.

224
00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:52.080
I do like the way they play against each other.

225
00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:56.399
I do think Michael Craig, however, does have this thing where you

226
00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.039
take an actor from a real-life setting and put him into a science

227
00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:02.100
fiction show and he has to deliver lines in a stilted sort of

228
00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:02.340
way.

229
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.940
So I actually don't particularly think he's great.

230
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:11.519
He, of course, start in the ABC TV series GP after this.

231
00:11:11.580 --> 00:11:12.659
He was great in that.

232
00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:16.379
But he's in a real world situation like on earth, not in a fake

233
00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:17.159
spaceship.

234
00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:21.240
But having said all of that, you know, as much as I criticising, I

235
00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:22.019
actually do like him.

236
00:11:22.139 --> 00:11:26.100
Whereas the actor playing Hellot or Mr. Grenville is so pathetic.

237
00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:29.460
And there's an outtake which you can never unsee.

238
00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:30.720
So people go and watch them.

239
00:11:31.259 --> 00:11:33.600
You know, he's just spoken to Mr. Kimber.

240
00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:36.600
Mr. Kimber's revealed that he's actually, you know, was an

241
00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:37.259
investigator.

242
00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:41.399
And this outtake, oh my goodness, he walks into his cabin, sits

243
00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.019
down, bumps his hand on his knee, as if annoyed, then he has to

244
00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:48.600
think about what he's going to do next, so he takes a pistol grip

245
00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:51.720
to his chin and sort of scratches his chin, and then he gets a

246
00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.779
bright idea, and he clicks his fingers and gets up and walks out.

247
00:11:54.840 --> 00:12:00.059
It is so, so pathetic and it is one of the best decisions in this

248
00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:01.980
story not to include that scene.

249
00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.500
I like how he's got a sort of slightly northern accent.

250
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.440
And so when his dresses are Megarian, he's a Megarian with a

251
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.899
slightly northern accent as well, which is quite good.

252
00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:10.860
Alert.

253
00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:11.820
Alert.

254
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.759
See, the thing that does my head in with this whole story is the

255
00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:15.600
fact that it's in the future.

256
00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:17.879
And so the Matrix can just extrapolate all this.

257
00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:21.419
Well, in the Deadly Assassin, they do say that they use the Matrix

258
00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:24.419
to extrapolate possible futures. just don't buy it.

259
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.940
That underlining premise just doesn't sit well with me.

260
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.860
Well, I mean, it is kind of stupid.

261
00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.220
Imagine that this is a real trial, presumably during the recess.

262
00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:35.879
Colin's gone and just watched a whole bunch of his future stories

263
00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:37.919
and has picked the best one.

264
00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:43.799
And so he'll leave here knowing all about going to happen. doesn't

265
00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:45.059
pick the Marion conspiracy.

266
00:12:45.299 --> 00:12:48.179
He doesn't pick arrangements for war.

267
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:48.899
I mean honestly.

268
00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.340
Is he the one doctor?

269
00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:56.820
But there's another problem here, which is that what seems to

270
00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:01.559
happen is that the doctor actually seems to successfully defend

271
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:06.720
himself and his defence isn't that in all of the prosecution

272
00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.759
evidence he was actually doing the right thing.

273
00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:12.899
He's intervened to make that point from time to time during those

274
00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:13.559
stories.

275
00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:21.000
But here, it's played as if he actually delivers a decisive blow

276
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:26.159
on the prosecution, when we see Travers asking for him to solve

277
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:26.820
the problem.

278
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:32.100
And he says, you know, I'm explicitly asked for help, and then and

279
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:37.320
only then do I intervene, and the Inquisitor says, yes, uh, and

280
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:39.720
that's irrefutable evidence, Valeyard.

281
00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:45.179
And so all he has to prove is on this one occasion, like his

282
00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:47.220
interference was asked for.

283
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.919
And that just doesn't make any sense.

284
00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:55.379
And then it's the genocide thing that comes in that gets him in

285
00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:58.799
trouble again, but it almost is meant to look, and it's too

286
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.080
ineptly done to actually sort of come off.

287
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:04.379
But it looks like the script is saying that the doctors actually

288
00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:09.600
won the case at that and then it's derailed by the genocide

289
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:09.840
thing.

290
00:14:09.899 --> 00:14:12.899
But isn't the genocide thing just in the next story, just then

291
00:14:12.899 --> 00:14:13.379
dismissed?

292
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.059
Aren't you forgetting about article seven?

293
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.240
Like, isn't it isn't it the case with all of all of these stories

294
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.279
that we're going to forget about the secrets?

295
00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:21.600
We going to forget about Perry's death.

296
00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:23.279
We going to forget about the genocide.

297
00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:25.559
It's just like we get to a and then it's like reset button.

298
00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:26.279
Yeah.

299
00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:29.460
So it's not one big giant 14 episode epic at all.

300
00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:33.000
It is just business as usual with some trial scenes thrown in.

301
00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:36.779
And the trial scenes at this point do really start to detract from

302
00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:37.320
the story.

303
00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:41.519
And it's probably going to come as a surprise to no one listening

304
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.399
that this is my favourite story of the season.

305
00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:47.100
What was your favourite story last season?

306
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:48.059
Mark of the Rani.

307
00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:49.200
And is it for the same reason?

308
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:52.860
It's Pip and Jane Baker, write fun, Doctor Who.

309
00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:57.419
It's not necessarily sophisticated by any means, but it's fun

310
00:14:57.419 --> 00:14:59.759
reliable Doctor Who with the beginning, middle, and end.

311
00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.580
There's clearly defined characters.

312
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.720
And in all 3 of their Doctor Who stories, and I suppose we can say

313
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:07.679
3.5 really.

314
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:13.139
They do rely on the series mythos, you know, they've got time

315
00:15:13.139 --> 00:15:15.779
lords and they've got old friends of the doctor and what have you

316
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:18.899
but it never feels as leaden as when other writers do it for some

317
00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:19.259
reason.

318
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:23.159
Now, I think it's possibly because as you say, Nathan, when they

319
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.620
do it, it's it's right to shorthand.

320
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.620
It's saying, you know, the reason doctor can ingratiate himself in

321
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:31.799
this situation. not going to spend 20 minutes of him doing it, is

322
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.659
because he knows the captain of this ship.

323
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.679
And yeah, it is a convenience that 2 old friends of the doctor

324
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:39.779
happen to be on the same ship at the same time.

325
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.820
I won't deny that for a second.

326
00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.279
But, You know what?

327
00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:47.159
I never noticed that convenience until you mentioned it just now

328
00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.639
Todd, and I think it's possible because the story just breezes

329
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:51.720
along at a clip.

330
00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:54.179
You know, we don't have to wait 25 minutes for the doctor and Mel

331
00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:55.379
to arrive in the story.

332
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.759
They're there right at the beginning, getting in amongst it.

333
00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:05.639
And I quite like the doctors. perceived reluctance to get

334
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:06.000
involved.

335
00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:10.259
You know, he's still getting involved, but it means also that Mel

336
00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:13.080
who, as we don't have an introduction story for her, this is her

337
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.039
introduction story.

338
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:18.000
She gets involved in the investigation and she's coming to the

339
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.159
doctor and saying, well, this is what I think is going on.

340
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:22.019
She's taking a proactive role.

341
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:27.419
The screaming at this stage is not a character problem.

342
00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.840
You know, she screams in understandable situations except for the

343
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.600
cliffhanger to episode nine, which is just bloody ridiculous.

344
00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:35.759
Like, he screams in the right key.

345
00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:39.059
So that the closing sting fits.

346
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:44.879
Yeah, like, I think Mel's screams are far more effective in the

347
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.299
last episode when they're just little yelps of fear, like because

348
00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:51.960
she is surrounded by killer plant monsters in a dark room, you

349
00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.500
know, it's like that's an understandable thing, but the kind of

350
00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:59.159
sustain a scream note for 5 seconds.

351
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.799
I don't blame Bonnie for this.

352
00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:04.440
I don't even think I really blame Chris Clough.

353
00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.240
I think this was coming from JNT.

354
00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:07.799
Oh yeah, no, it very definitely was.

355
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:11.640
Do you remember the sort of publicity around Bonnie Langford when

356
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.660
she was 1st cast where she was presented as a return to the

357
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.240
companions from the 60s who screamed?

358
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:22.799
And she doesn't play it like Victoria at all?

359
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:26.579
You know, she's much more plucky, she's much more brave.

360
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.220
I really like Bonnie Langford.

361
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.240
I think she's really good.

362
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:32.700
I like her character a lot.

363
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:41.400
I think she's overly stagey here and it is a problem that will

364
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:42.059
continue.

365
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.019
She's a bit too presentational and she's playing it as kind of

366
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:47.579
children's television.

367
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:49.440
She's not playing it naturalistically.

368
00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:54.359
And that is compounded by the terrible artificiality of the

369
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.359
dialogue that she's given, that makes it worse.

370
00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:02.339
But, you know, at least she's not being menaced by anyone and her

371
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:05.519
relationship with Colin is not antagonistic, it's nice.

372
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:08.460
I agree with a lot of what you've just said.

373
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:12.420
I can't fault Bonnie's enthusiasm and the way in which she throws

374
00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:15.960
herself into the role during her time on the show, but she is very

375
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:16.500
stagey.

376
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:19.619
And I think it's heightened here because the doctor has to take a

377
00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:20.640
backseat, right?

378
00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:23.400
And so the companion has to be the one driving it.

379
00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:25.559
So it's sort of heightened a bit more.

380
00:18:25.619 --> 00:18:30.119
Yeah, and there is times when she does drop it back a bit. in this

381
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.000
but I love her relationship with the Colin Baker doctor.

382
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.180
Like I actually think they work for me, they work, they work.

383
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.299
Whereas next year I think it does become a problem in the 1st 8

384
00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:43.319
episodes where she's like 150% full throttle and that really

385
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:44.160
undermines things.

386
00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:47.400
And it's a shame that it takes so long for the character of Mel to

387
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:48.240
actually get onto earth.

388
00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:48.839
Yeah.

389
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.240
Because you've mentioned this before, that when we do get to

390
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:52.680
Delton Man and she's on Earth.

391
00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:55.079
There's a more naturalistic performance there.

392
00:18:55.140 --> 00:19:00.299
But we're going to get 12, 14 episodes of that children's acting

393
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:03.779
and that for me becomes a problem.

394
00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:04.920
At the moment, it's not.

395
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.339
The other thing too is, you know, there's a character called Janet

396
00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:09.420
in this, the stewardess.

397
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.660
And unfortunately, the actress passed away a few years ago from

398
00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:16.859
cancer, but she's so natural in her performance.

399
00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:20.099
And with Colin, she has little scenes with Colin, very few, but

400
00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:22.859
there's just this, there's just this wonderful moments with them.

401
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:24.359
And it's sort of like when I watch it.

402
00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:26.640
I mean, yeah, melon the doctor's great, right?

403
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.460
I go, why couldn't you have come with the doctor?

404
00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:30.180
Yeah.

405
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.779
My favourite moment with Janet in this, it is such a little tiny

406
00:19:33.779 --> 00:19:38.099
moment, it's when Grenville slash Hallet has been killed.

407
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.880
And Kimba says, I recognise him, remember?

408
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:44.160
And you come to Janet and she actually shakes her head.

409
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:47.160
It's like, I'm not going to remember that tiny little thing.

410
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:49.799
You know, I attend to all these needs on the cruise ship.

411
00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:51.779
And it just makes her a real character.

412
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.500
You know, very often in Agatha Christie's because this was

413
00:19:55.500 --> 00:19:59.160
inspired by Murder on the Orient Express, um, and then there were

414
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:00.000
none, et cetera.

415
00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:04.680
Very often in Agatha Christie stories, characters will remember

416
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.279
tiny little details which you wouldn't remember as a real person

417
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.119
and it makes her a real person, and that bit at the end where the

418
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:16.259
ship's under siege, and when it's over, she just sort of cuddles

419
00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:17.700
up to one of the security guards.

420
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:19.559
You're right, Todd.

421
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:22.920
She is such a naturalistic, likeable character.

422
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:29.519
And it's kind of weird because she's not given anymore to do than

423
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:34.920
say, Madame Katrona, who was fabulous last week, and we just

424
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.380
didn't get around to mentioning her, and she was fabulous.

425
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:42.779
But Janet makes more of an impact just by sort of inhabiting a

426
00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:44.279
reality within her world.

427
00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:47.400
She plays it real, whereas I think other people in this production

428
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.359
and I've talked about, you know, Michael Craig play it like, well

429
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:52.559
we're acting on a spaceship.

430
00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:55.019
Yeah, you know, a sheet entertainment set.

431
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.180
Yeah, where she actually does play it real.

432
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.440
And that relationship with the 6th doctor, which I think is just

433
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:01.740
lovely.

434
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.920
And Colin is, as you said, is never more cuddly than he is here.

435
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:07.019
I think there's a lightness of touch.

436
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:09.839
There's the whole going down the wrong corridor, sort of thing.

437
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:13.559
I will say this, however, this is my least favourite look for him

438
00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:18.240
in his entire time of the show, that hideous, hideous waistcoat

439
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.859
with that awful yellow bow tie, and then his hair is never as long

440
00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:24.240
as it is red.

441
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.500
It just looks dreadful.

442
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.900
And then the director chooses to put him and Bonnie Langford

443
00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:30.359
against a green screen thing in space.

444
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:32.400
So you get all that fringing around their curly hair.

445
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:34.799
How are you doing?

446
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:38.400
Yeah, I mean, this is another Doctor Who episode where the model

447
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.920
shots are done on video because they've spent all the money at the

448
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.039
beginning of the season on the trial spaceship. they don't look

449
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:44.220
good.

450
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:45.240
They don't look good.

451
00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:48.000
But that being said, I do like the tracking shot into the lounge

452
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.579
at the beginning where you see the side of the ship and then it

453
00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:51.660
comes up into the lounge.

454
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.200
And I like the idea of that green screen looking out the

455
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:56.220
observation dome.

456
00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:58.440
The fringing, as you say, Todd, is a problem.

457
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:00.299
They have cleaned it up slightly for the DVD.

458
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.779
And the heads up display on the bridge where it was great.

459
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.240
The black hole of Tartarus and all that, that looks quite good.

460
00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:09.779
And they actually need it for a plot thing because we need to see

461
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:12.779
that Bruckner is driving the ship into the black hole.

462
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:16.559
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, it's supposed to be this luxury liner

463
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:16.859
is that correct?

464
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.220
It looks really cheap and tacky, like with the chairs and the

465
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:23.519
really small cabins that don't seem to look out into anywhere.

466
00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:24.839
Like, I just find it looks really cheap.

467
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.019
There's a sort of deco thing, which is kind of looking at murder

468
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:29.039
on the Art Express.

469
00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:32.220
So I think the problem was... lighting?

470
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.279
The lighting's a problem, but I also think just the complete lack

471
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:36.420
of extras.

472
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:41.220
Yeah, yeah, seem to be, you know, maybe 5 people on this.

473
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.579
Oh, especially when the Mogarians or whoever does that voiceover

474
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:45.779
thing saying stay in your cabins.

475
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.799
How convenient.

476
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.839
Which is bizarre because the scene where Grenville Hallett slips

477
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.799
into the Hydroponics Bay, there's about 10 technicians there who

478
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:58.380
you think just put them in some other costumes and have them

479
00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:00.720
sitting in the back of shots just to fill out the space.

480
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:04.440
Yeah, I mean, the doctor wanders into the gym at one and it's

481
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.380
empty and he wanders into the lounge at one and it's completely

482
00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:07.859
empty.

483
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.319
I mean, the ship is largely deserted.

484
00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:12.660
See, I have a problem with the gym set.

485
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.539
Oh, it's really cheap and tactic. terrible, you know?

486
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.900
But I like the hydroponics, but, you know, there's things like

487
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.319
well, you've got these creatures in these pods, but you're going

488
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.599
to booby trap the whole thing, sort of explodes, and they're

489
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.900
released, and then you've got this assistant who's obviously, you

490
00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:31.680
know, infected, but it undermines, I don't know, the security

491
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:34.980
guard and the captain, like, these are the things that annoy me

492
00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:35.279
about it.

493
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:36.720
Then when you start to think about these things.

494
00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:39.480
It's sort of like it's all artificially created so that we can get

495
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:41.700
to certain cliffhangers and certain beats in the plot.

496
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.720
But when you pull it apart, I find that it falls apart in certain

497
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:46.440
aspects.

498
00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:49.559
And that's what I, that's a continuing problem that I will have

499
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.720
with Pip and Jane Baker's scripts from this point on.

500
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.500
Speaking of cliffhangers, one cliffhanger in this story, I

501
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:57.779
particularly hate and it could have been really good.

502
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.980
It's like, okay, so they use that display on the ship to show that

503
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:04.019
the ship is headed into the black hole of Tartarus.

504
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:04.980
Okay, that's the cliffhanger.

505
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.380
Okay, no, no, we're getting a really good shot of Bruckner's face

506
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.660
looking in awe at the black hole.

507
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:10.619
That's the cliffhanger.

508
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:12.720
Oh, no, no, we're back out in the corridor now.

509
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:17.279
And it has to be a close-up of Colin Baker saying, your colleague

510
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.859
is aiming this ship into the black hole of Tartarus.

511
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.960
It's like, we did not need that.

512
00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:24.900
A terrible, terrible cliffhanger too, because that seems like 2

513
00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:25.500
minutes long.

514
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:29.640
Like they just come in and it just gives Colin the chance to turn

515
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.400
what could have been a visual threat into word peril.

516
00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:34.680
You know, we're standing in a corridor.

517
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:38.940
I love the delivery of that line into the black hole of Tartarus.

518
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.180
It cuts to Laski's face and she goes, whatever.

519
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.240
And then it should go to Cliffhanger if we're going to be in the

520
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:46.440
corridor, but it has to come back to him.

521
00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:49.980
And it's like when they find the mutant, like they open it up.

522
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:52.440
Mel screams and then it zooms in on Colin's face.

523
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:54.240
It's like, are you thinking about this people?

524
00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:56.099
Just the reveal of the mutant would be enough?

525
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:56.759
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:58.200
Colin screaming?

527
00:24:58.259 --> 00:25:00.960
Well, Colin's face is covered by a gas mask.

528
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.920
You do like when everything explodes in episode one and she

529
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:06.539
screams.

530
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:10.019
Yeah, I think that is a good cliffhanger. that coming out.

531
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.980
Something that has often been raised about the story is, you know

532
00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:16.980
Lasky says, oh, you know, the verboids are designed to be servants

533
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:19.019
and they don't need food and blah, blah.

534
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:22.319
And it's like, why give them a bloody deadly sting then?

535
00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:24.779
But she does have a line.

536
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.420
It's sort of an aside, so it's often overlooked.

537
00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:30.240
She does have a line where she says something must have gone wrong

538
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.559
with the DNA profile.

539
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:34.259
So some mutation has happened, which allows them to be aggressive

540
00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:38.339
and it's implied and not, it should be more explicitly stated, but

541
00:25:38.339 --> 00:25:39.900
it's implied that's Dolan's work.

542
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.339
But the thing is this, to me, it's sort of like, they're so

543
00:25:44.339 --> 00:25:47.579
paranoid about everything down there in these things getting out

544
00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:47.940
right?

545
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.099
Does that mean they've actually hatched one before?

546
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.579
Like, to me, it's sort of like they've actually had to deal with a

547
00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:56.579
real vervoid, because would they then actually know that it's

548
00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:57.359
actually going to be successful?

549
00:25:57.420 --> 00:26:01.799
Yeah, Brugner knows too, that once the vervoids escape, everyone's

550
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:02.940
in terrible danger.

551
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.799
Yeah, so maybe she does know they have a stinger.

552
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.380
I think that they've just read Day of the Triffords and they know

553
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.680
that genetically engineered plants inevitably rise up and wipe out

554
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:11.880
all of human civilisation.

555
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.059
You know, I think, come to think of it, I think that's another

556
00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:18.059
thing I like about Pip and Jane Baker stories is that they take

557
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:21.059
the David Whittaker approach if they take a scientific idea and

558
00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:22.380
construct a story around it.

559
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:27.539
So for Marco the Rani, it was the idea that an amoral scientist

560
00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:31.559
would see humanity is just walking piles of chemicals.

561
00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:35.579
In this story, it was because in their research they found out

562
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:39.660
that plants and humans had at that point recently been revealed to

563
00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:41.160
share some of the same hormones.

564
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:43.380
So what would that work include?

565
00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:47.880
Later on in time in the Rani, it's the idea of a cerebral mass

566
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.400
changing time, you know, and it gets a bit more esoteric.

567
00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:51.960
Oh, and strange matter.

568
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:52.619
And strange matter.

569
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:53.940
Because that was only recently discovered.

570
00:26:54.059 --> 00:26:54.960
Yeah, yeah.

571
00:26:55.019 --> 00:27:00.839
So, you know, they, unlike, say timelash, you know, timelash has

572
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:05.039
science fiction ideas, but it's not about taking real recognisable

573
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:09.000
science, copyright, Christopher Hamilton, Bidmead and turning it

574
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.200
into science fiction.

575
00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:15.359
Now, we, of course, have spoken about Brian Blessed as the big

576
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.940
guest star last week and Joan Sims 2 weeks beforehand.

577
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.339
Of course, this time we have honour Blackman.

578
00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:24.059
I actually really like her in this.

579
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:26.940
I think it's a bit thankless and it is a bit wasted.

580
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.640
Like, it's kind of overcasting, isn't it?

581
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:35.279
But she, I mean, she is so brilliantly fabulous in Goldfinger.

582
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:40.440
Like, she must be one of the best Bond girls in the history of the

583
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.160
show until that roll in the hay, which is, you know, deeply

584
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.859
insulting and kind of embarrassing on all sorts of levels.

585
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:51.180
She's, you know, a cut above everyone else when it comes to actual

586
00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:51.539
acting.

587
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:54.299
She has a class about it.

588
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.119
I think she's got it written into her contract that this is my

589
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:58.259
best side of my face.

590
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.180
At some point she gets knocked out or killed.

591
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.980
Like you have to show this part of it.

592
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.900
I think people need to play the Demeter seat game. where she's in

593
00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:10.259
the lounge in pink and then somebody will come up to her and say

594
00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:11.579
well, there's a problem.

595
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.339
Go and check the hydroponics, have a Demeter seed.

596
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.700
Then she's in her purple outfit in the gym.

597
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:22.019
Somebody interrupts her, oh, quick go and check the isolation room

598
00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:23.099
have a Demeter seat.

599
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.400
Then she's had it allowed in her pink outfit, reading something

600
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.039
and something happens to me to see.

601
00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:30.599
Then she's back into the gym again.

602
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.640
It's very funny if you actually watch.

603
00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:34.259
There's a couple instances where that doesn't happen.

604
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.480
But throughout the whole thing, I just kind of go, okay, she's

605
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.579
there, she's there. all the way through.

606
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:41.880
And in fact, she does hate having her routine interrupted, doesn't

607
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:42.359
she?

608
00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:42.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

609
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:46.980
But, you know, a routine seems to be, you know, a bit of reading

610
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:48.359
and then the gym.

611
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:51.779
And that's that seems to be her routine and let her minions sort

612
00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:54.900
of worry about everything else, which is quite fabulous and quite

613
00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:55.140
funny.

614
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.960
And she's got that wonderful scene with the doctor and Mel with

615
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.180
the Demeter seed in the lounge, which I really do like.

616
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.539
And that's something that we've done before where the doctor's

617
00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:07.680
companion is much better at dealing with people than the doctor is

618
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:09.240
but the doctor thinks he's better.

619
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.940
You know, like Mary and Tom in the pirate planet.

620
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:14.940
And I think that that's terrifically good.

621
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.039
I like her relationship with Colin.

622
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:18.720
I think that's really funny.

623
00:29:18.779 --> 00:29:22.619
And the great thing about that Demeter seed scene is the men in

624
00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:25.200
the scene are completely locked out by the women having a

625
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.460
scientific conversation.

626
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:27.900
It's really great.

627
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:31.740
And then, of course, you know, when Raj finally turns up, Lasky's

628
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:32.579
like, oh, what do you want?

629
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.859
And it's actually the doctor who jumps through his face.

630
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:35.940
You said for him.

631
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.839
This is your fault.

632
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:39.839
You know, they're things that I don't particularly like.

633
00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:43.140
Like you talked about the key, like, you know, in the dialogue.

634
00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:46.859
The key 6 is, no, it's key 9, your luggage is, like, I mean...

635
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:47.460
How does she get in?

636
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:48.359
Yeah, yeah.

637
00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:49.740
If it's the wrong key handed she get in.

638
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:54.240
And then, you know, we put old towels in a bucket and we're just

639
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.180
going to put them into a furnace, like, you know, you know, so

640
00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:58.500
Mel's going to be put into furnaces.

641
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.099
Everything, like, it just seems like a complete waste of, you know

642
00:30:02.099 --> 00:30:05.099
rather than washing it or whatever. just right down there.

643
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:06.299
Like, do you know what I'm saying?

644
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:09.960
When you start to think about it, that makes no sense.

645
00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:13.619
Yeah, I mean, why couldn't the line earlier have been, whoever was

646
00:30:13.619 --> 00:30:15.900
in that bucket has been thrown into the washing machine and give

647
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:18.119
it a solid rinse ticket in my book, that's murder.

648
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.680
Things like that just drive me up the wall.

649
00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:29.339
I think too, there's something really kind of childish about the 6

650
00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:33.299
and 9 thing. you know, and it's like the McGarian who doesn't

651
00:30:33.299 --> 00:30:36.660
switch on his translator, which goes on for about 15 minutes, that

652
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:40.019
scene, and it's not, you don't have to be that smart, you know?

653
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.799
Sign posted in episode one when, you know, Janet encounters a

654
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:45.539
Megarian and doesn't switch on his translator.

655
00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:47.940
Like, I mean, that's the thing I have with this, is the fact that

656
00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:51.420
I find that it is pitched very childish, which, you know, fair

657
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:55.200
enough, but when I watch it, I just kind of think, okay, didn't

658
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:55.680
switch it on.

659
00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:57.720
Oh, Rudge, she's up to something.

660
00:30:57.779 --> 00:31:00.420
This is a complete slide plot just so that we have an episode

661
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:01.619
three. you know how we don't.

662
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:04.380
And then so when the doctor actually vocalises that, you know, this

663
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.380
is just a sideshow, well, I go, yes, it's just a side plot to

664
00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:09.059
continue the story for an extra episode.

665
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.880
Whereas in other Doctor Who's, there are side plots that do that

666
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:13.619
but you don't think that as that happens.

667
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:15.299
Yeah, it's not a sign person.

668
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.359
I think, though, you know, what could have happened is the doctor

669
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:21.299
could have been locked up for episode 3 to prevent us from getting

670
00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:23.279
to the resolution.

671
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:24.660
That's peaky.

672
00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:25.799
That's pizza, right?

673
00:31:25.859 --> 00:31:26.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

674
00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:29.519
At least the story develops and there's a series of different

675
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:33.839
threats, which aren't related to one another, but, you know, are

676
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:34.920
reasonably interesting.

677
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:39.779
But I think it is TV written by kind of dumb people who think

678
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.039
they're being smart.

679
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.779
And obviously that's really clear in all of the dialogue.

680
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.140
You know, the way that words are used, like big words are

681
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:53.519
unnecessarily used and make everyone sound sort of terribly

682
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:54.059
artificial.

683
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:57.420
Is your study of all 1980s, Doctor Who's so antidiluvian?

684
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.359
Yeah, the antediluvian and the brown study and all of that sort of

685
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:03.960
stuff, which is just like hanging a lampshade on the fact that no

686
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.960
one talks normally, everyone sort of speaks in these sort of

687
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:11.940
stupid, stupid, abstruse, weird, rare words.

688
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:13.140
Here's the question.

689
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:14.579
We call them vervoids.

690
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:15.900
Why?

691
00:32:16.019 --> 00:32:20.519
I think there's a kind of plant called vervain. and that's what

692
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:21.480
they're named after.

693
00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:23.579
But yeah, no, I don't know.

694
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:24.359
Are you making that up?

695
00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:25.619
No, that's a real thing.

696
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:26.460
It's a real thing.

697
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:27.779
Kelly Ann Conway told me.

698
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:30.960
They also apparently slightly look like volvers but I wouldn't

699
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:31.140
know.

700
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.680
Oh yeah, well, it's a great tradition of Doctor Who monsters that

701
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:35.279
look somewhat rude.

702
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:37.200
I never understood.

703
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:39.359
No, I still don't really wonder why that is.

704
00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:41.880
I think they look like cauliflower.

705
00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:44.220
With the sort of Banksia for a mouth.

706
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.220
But it's quite funny because they, you know, when they do their

707
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:48.720
gas out of their, whatever.

708
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:51.359
And there's a little bit that comes out sometimes.

709
00:32:51.420 --> 00:32:53.640
And then other times when people are in showers and stuff, it's

710
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:58.799
like they've farted rather than... something like stacks and

711
00:32:58.799 --> 00:32:59.279
stacks of it.

712
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:00.000
Do you know what I'm saying?

713
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.220
Like when you watch it, you kind of go... it's just a little bit

714
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:04.079
coming out and then all of a sudden it's like...

715
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.599
And then, of course, when Mel covers her mouth, it's like, oh, God

716
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:07.980
that's...

717
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:10.559
I would have been eating.

718
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.000
You know, a sign from old man from the state of decay.

719
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:17.759
What do we think of the verbo performances?

720
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:21.720
I think they're hilarious.

721
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:27.660
We are doing splendidly. for the next 30 minutes, at least.

722
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:32.819
And they come out speaking English and knowing who everyone is.

723
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:33.900
Do you know what I mean?

724
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:35.579
They know Professor Lasky.

725
00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:36.599
Yeah, yes, we know who you are.

726
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:37.079
Yeah, yeah.

727
00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:39.359
They're actually a bit terrifying when they actually do confront

728
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:42.299
everybody in a group, like in the corridor and drag them back to

729
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:42.480
that.

730
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.339
Yeah, I think that's quite good.

731
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.599
And I think Mel's best reaction is when she sees that compost

732
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:49.259
heap.

733
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:53.279
And it does the thing that was kind of promised with Collins

734
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:57.599
doctor where he's alien and has different values because he

735
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:02.339
interprets that as the vervoids following instinct and compares it

736
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.039
to the compost heat that Mel had at home.

737
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:09.420
And that's a true way of looking at it, but a different way from

738
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:13.619
how Mel's looking at it, but he still respects her feelings enough

739
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:14.639
to comfort her.

740
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:18.000
And her reaction to that, her being upset, I think, is well

741
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.599
played.

742
00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:22.619
I think that whenever she's given a proper emotional reaction to

743
00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:25.980
things, even though her tendency is to overplay things.

744
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:27.599
I think that that's when she's at her best.

745
00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:31.559
One of the things Eric Saywood says in the various interviews he

746
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.260
has on these discs is that, you know, he was against her casting

747
00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:38.280
but he wrote a specific circular logic scene for her and Colin to

748
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.059
play, and they did it as an audition, and he actually says that he

749
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:45.000
was actually quite surprised at how, like, she actually did it

750
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.360
well, and he actually says this could work. actually admits to

751
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:48.480
that.

752
00:34:48.539 --> 00:34:52.139
Yeah, it was a big problem because, of course, she was a famous

753
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:57.179
child actor in the Just William TV series where she played Violet

754
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:00.840
Elizabeth Bott, who was always going to scream and scream and

755
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.940
scream until she was sick or something like that.

756
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:06.659
And so she grew up being kind of hated on television.

757
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:10.679
And then there's that terrible kind of Noel coward line about her

758
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:15.480
in that play, which let's not repeat it.

759
00:35:15.539 --> 00:35:17.519
But I might link to it in the show.

760
00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:18.239
No, no, no.

761
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:19.019
I think we're going to.

762
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:20.519
So she was in a play with an elephant.

763
00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:22.199
No, no, I think it was just a horse.

764
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:23.639
There was a horse on stage.

765
00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:24.239
Oh, right.

766
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:26.579
And the horse defecated on stage.

767
00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:29.400
And Noel Coward said that the 2 biggest problems in the play could

768
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.639
have been solved by kind of inserting the child actor into the

769
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:33.059
horse.

770
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:37.739
Oh my lord, which is really horrible.

771
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.199
And I mean, I love Bonnie Langford.

772
00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:41.340
I just think she's terrific.

773
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:42.659
And she's all funny.

774
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:43.800
It is really funny.

775
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:45.719
But I think she's lovely in the show.

776
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:52.320
It's unfortunate that her 1st what, 14 episodes or something or

777
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.500
1st 10 episodes are written by Pip and Jane Baker.

778
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:59.219
So that's a big problem for establishing her character.

779
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:00.900
But I think she's really plucky.

780
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:01.980
She's likeable.

781
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:06.539
She has some advantages over Perry in that they don't have the

782
00:36:06.539 --> 00:36:07.980
antagonistic relationship.

783
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:11.280
She's not constantly being threatened in a sort of sexual way.

784
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:13.619
She's never sexualised in the way that Perry is.

785
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.840
And since the show's been on.

786
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:18.000
She's just been lovely, you know, afterwards.

787
00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:21.719
Yeah, I mean, she's now in EastEnders and she's absolutely killing

788
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:22.679
it in the role there.

789
00:36:22.739 --> 00:36:25.559
And her stuff on audio is just amazing.

790
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:28.920
Like, they get the character and she's given light and shade and

791
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.820
um, in this, one of the things that I have a problem with is that

792
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:34.860
I don't know if it's in this story. they say that she's a computer

793
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.019
programmer or whatever, which I never buy.

794
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:41.039
Because the 1st scene she's to do with health and fitness.

795
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:44.579
And it's sort of like I could buy her as like owner of the gym or

796
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:48.360
personal trainer or something like that. referencing Colin's

797
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:52.199
weight in that way in the show, I think, is a mistake in that

798
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:52.440
scene.

799
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:54.539
I mean, they play it for last, but I don't think it really

800
00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:54.780
worked.

801
00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.900
It's not fun And then she's in the gym all the time in this.

802
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:01.380
So it just leads me to that she's a fitness fanatic, you know?

803
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:04.920
The problem with her being a computer programmer is they don't get

804
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.920
anyone to write or edit the scripts who knows anything about

805
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:08.519
computers.

806
00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:13.019
Because, you know, the few references we get to computers over her

807
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:15.239
tenure are written by Pip and Jane Baker.

808
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:17.519
And the whole megabyte modem thing.

809
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:22.199
They do explain that in the making of as Mel is wrong when she

810
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.320
says it's a megabyte modem, but the idea of the megabyte modem was

811
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:27.960
cutting edge technology then, and there was a fear it could be

812
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.519
used in the Cold War, et cetera.

813
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:32.400
So if she sees a piece of advanced technology, she's going to

814
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:36.360
think it's that, and they both say, as it's realised on screen, a

815
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.699
box with flashing lights, it's a stupid line.

816
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:41.039
Well, I mean, it's kind of a stupid line.

817
00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:42.539
Is there really a megabyte modem?

818
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.000
It just sounds like 2 words to do with computers that have been

819
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:45.840
smushed together.

820
00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:48.840
She doesn't strike you as a real person at all, really.

821
00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:50.039
And that is a problem.

822
00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:50.340
Yeah.

823
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:50.699
Yeah.

824
00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:53.579
So other people in this cast.

825
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:55.260
We've got Rudge.

826
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:55.860
Yep.

827
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.219
And Doland and Bruckner?

828
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.159
I think they're all reasonably competent at times.

829
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:06.539
Yeah, I think Brookner can sell that cliffhanger to episode 3 and

830
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:08.820
going slightly crazier as things go along.

831
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.340
He was Stimson in the leisure hive.

832
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:12.179
Yes, that's right.

833
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.059
Doland, I think, is pretty good.

834
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:18.599
He was quite terrifying in one of the English House of Cards

835
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:19.800
miniseries.

836
00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:20.760
He's pretty good in that.

837
00:38:20.820 --> 00:38:21.599
I think he's okay.

838
00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:22.679
He underplays it here.

839
00:38:22.739 --> 00:38:25.500
I think he has to because he's supposed to be the villain.

840
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.139
But I think that's hilarious because, like, you know, when the

841
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:31.920
Mogarians get their deadly coffee, both he and Janet are not

842
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:32.159
there.

843
00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:33.059
What's Janet doing?

844
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:34.139
Is she filing her nails?

845
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:35.099
like, you know, what's going on?

846
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.920
Because, you know, I reckon she could have been the mastermind of

847
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:38.340
this whole thing.

848
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.300
That would have been hilarious.

849
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:40.920
We did not ask for refreshment.

850
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:44.280
Yeah, I think Pip and Jane are trying to create a red herring

851
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.179
where we think it's.

852
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.820
I kind of hope that she was going to be the sister of the poor

853
00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:52.380
mutant girl and she's after revenge on everyone. being the poor

854
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:53.519
stewardess as well.

855
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:54.539
Yo, that's the thing.

856
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:57.539
At the end of the story, she and the Commodore, who, of course, has

857
00:38:57.539 --> 00:39:00.900
his arm injury, wander off into the dark shadows, then she kills

858
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:01.139
him.

859
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:07.500
Speaking of dark shadows, you know, in the bits of the ducting

860
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:09.300
with the vervoids in their compost peep.

861
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:10.619
Again, we've turned the lights down.

862
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:14.460
So there's a contrast between the bright lights of the cruise ship

863
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:19.500
public areas, which would be brightly lit, and the dim light of

864
00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:22.619
the ventilation shaft, and it's not like a Star Trek ventilation

865
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:26.099
shaft where everything's neat and tidy and in metal tubes. like

866
00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:29.400
well, no, this is behind the scenes of a consumer area.

867
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:33.960
So, you know, it's not a complete mess, but it's utilitarian.

868
00:39:34.019 --> 00:39:40.139
And then we get the sort of emergency red lighting in the

869
00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:43.380
conclusion, which also looks great, and the sets look really good

870
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:45.000
under that, and it does look scary.

871
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:48.000
I think that those whole sequences are great.

872
00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:49.860
And when they use the v, what is it?

873
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:50.579
Viennesium.

874
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.159
Oh, yes, another wonderful rare metal.

875
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:55.500
It's probably the most valuable substance in the universe

876
00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:55.800
actually.

877
00:39:55.860 --> 00:40:00.119
After that substance that was found on the floor of silicone.

878
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:03.300
Of 2 twins, plates. or Maconite. or zanium.

879
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:04.739
That's right on J3.

880
00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:07.619
I was going somewhere. methane.

881
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.840
But, you know, it's really quite gravel.

882
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:13.679
Why do I have to put up with this?

883
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.940
But it's really quite haunting, you know, all of, and they're

884
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:19.679
dying as well, I think is pretty good.

885
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:23.159
There is that shot of the fake doctor's hand with the with the

886
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:23.760
leaf, you know?

887
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:25.679
I don't know, that leaf should blow away.

888
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:27.179
It shouldn't sort of vanish.

889
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:29.099
The whole point of it is it's autumn.

890
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:33.900
You know, they do that great colour thing where the vervoids

891
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:36.300
change colour and they just do that on the video.

892
00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:42.539
And the idea is, uh, and it's a very Pip and Jane idea, it's kind

893
00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:46.500
of trying to be smart and scientific, but not quite coming off, but

894
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:50.820
the idea that they accelerate the life cycle and it goes from

895
00:40:50.820 --> 00:40:54.239
spring to summer to autumn and they all die.

896
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:58.260
And the music kind of sells it as a sad moment.

897
00:40:58.320 --> 00:40:59.699
At that point.

898
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.239
Like some of the music is very clunky, you know, in the 1st scenes

899
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:04.739
like, you know, they're bang, bang.

900
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:06.239
Well, it's Malcolm Cline.

901
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:08.340
Yeah, so Malcolm Clark did twin dilemma.

902
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.260
You did attack of the Cymon, did you?

903
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:12.840
He did attack assignment and he had a bad tendency in attack of

904
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:16.860
the cybermen to underline all of the jokes.

905
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.980
So to do a little comedy sting when something funny happened, and

906
00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:22.860
he does do that here, and that's kind of embarrassing.

907
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:26.159
Oh, yes, is that that sort of panpipe music that you do-doo-doo

908
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:26.340
thing.

909
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.099
Yeah, it's not quite that, but at certain times when the doctor

910
00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:32.639
says some really pathetic jokes, like, don't throw a talent meal

911
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.739
or whatever, then there's a little... happy moment.

912
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.960
Do you know, I hate the line.

913
00:41:37.019 --> 00:41:39.420
I wish I could get rid of my waste as easily.

914
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.539
Because I never read it as W-A-I-S-T. Oh, clearly what it's meant

915
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:45.840
to be.

916
00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:49.920
I always read it as W-A-S-T-E, and it's kind of like, couldn't you

917
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.599
just nip off to the loo, Colin?

918
00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:52.079
Like, really?

919
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:57.300
Sorry, he wants to go in a bucket. to go down to the furnace or

920
00:41:57.300 --> 00:41:57.900
whatever it's called.

921
00:41:57.960 --> 00:41:59.039
Choking in a furnace.

922
00:41:59.099 --> 00:42:00.420
The pulverizer.

923
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:01.440
Is it a pulverizer?

924
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:05.280
It's like a moment out of...

925
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:09.179
Sorry, Galaxy Quest, you know, where she's going, who puts these

926
00:42:09.179 --> 00:42:10.079
chompy things in?

927
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.599
We've got the pulverizer this week.

928
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:14.579
Can I like the iris thing?

929
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:15.599
I think that's.

930
00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:16.619
Yeah, it's really well done.

931
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:18.179
Now, rating.

932
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:20.699
Ratings Mel debuts to 5.2 million.

933
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:23.039
Yeah, I thought that she would probably get a lot of people in

934
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:24.179
because she is famous.

935
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:25.619
This is big casting, isn't it?

936
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:27.119
Then it drops down to 4.6.

937
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:32.280
Then we're back up to 5.3 and I think 5.2 for the final episode.

938
00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:34.980
So, you know, it's the one it's the one story that does rate above

939
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:40.380
5 million, but it's still all 85 to 93, you know, we're still in

940
00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:42.000
that sort of sort of range.

941
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:44.699
I mean, next week it's going to drop down to 4.4.

942
00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:47.159
Figure that out for the penultimate episode.

943
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:50.579
I think the penultimate episode, spoiler alert for next week might

944
00:42:50.579 --> 00:42:54.119
be the strongest episode of the, not the strongest story, but the

945
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:55.019
strongest single episode.

946
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:56.639
It's always the way, isn't it?

947
00:42:56.699 --> 00:43:01.500
that often really great strong doctor episodes don't rate as

948
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:01.739
much.

949
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:03.840
And then the next week, because the final episode of season will

950
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:09.059
get 5.6. suddenly like then the one after gets the viewers in to

951
00:43:09.059 --> 00:43:12.239
see something that perhaps is not quite as good as what they

952
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.380
missed the previous week.

953
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:16.860
But look, you know, I came into this expecting to really dislike

954
00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:17.219
it.

955
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.400
Like with all the, we've discussed all of its sports and they're

956
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:24.300
all there and I consider Pip and Jane Baker scripts to be like

957
00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:27.059
colouring in books with, you know, you've got all, it's all

958
00:43:27.059 --> 00:43:28.920
cenciled out with all the numbers, then you've just got to get

959
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:32.340
your, your crayon and, and, you know, fill it in, right?

960
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.000
And sometimes I go in the lines and I do a really great job and

961
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:38.159
other times it's like, I've just scribbled over everything.

962
00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:42.780
And so I actually quite enjoyed this after doing my head in the

963
00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:43.380
previous story.

964
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:45.300
There's banal dialogue.

965
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.159
There's situations that don't make sense.

966
00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:49.440
There's some poor direction, but there's some good performances.

967
00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:52.739
I think Colin's just lovely throughout the entire thing.

968
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.440
Bonnie's really in there giving it an all.

969
00:43:55.500 --> 00:43:56.820
Lasky's fabulous.

970
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:58.139
I love Janet.

971
00:43:58.199 --> 00:43:59.519
The Commodore works.

972
00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:03.119
I don't particularly like a lot of the costumes, been these

973
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:06.059
jumpsuits and those shoulder paddy things.

974
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.199
I think you like them, don't you?

975
00:44:07.260 --> 00:44:09.239
Well, I don't necessarily like them.

976
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:11.699
They're not necessarily something like cosplay in, but I like

977
00:44:11.699 --> 00:44:12.119
that.

978
00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:15.480
There's a design aesthetic in this universe.

979
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:21.480
And the crew of the ship have uniforms whose lines reflect the

980
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.179
casual wear of the society.

981
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.719
Like if you look at military uniforms in our world, they're based

982
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:31.260
around formal attire in the civilian world.

983
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:37.139
So the sort of having the mid-chest panel, which is a common

984
00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:42.300
feature in all the costumes, or most of the costumes, and then

985
00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:47.039
having a similar mid-chest panel on the crew uniforms, it's just a

986
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.780
subtle little thing that makes the world feel connected, and it's

987
00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:55.260
not just, let's put everyone in curtains like in time lash.

988
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.300
That's why I like them.

989
00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.800
I also love Mr. Kimba.

990
00:44:58.860 --> 00:44:59.940
Any show with Mr. Kimberley?

991
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.019
against bonus points.

992
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:02.219
Arthur Hewitt?

993
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:03.059
Arthur Hewlett.

994
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:03.960
I'll have to show you this.

995
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:07.019
He's in a very early episode of The Avengers, along with Ortron

996
00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:08.400
from The Monster of Palette.

997
00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:11.099
Oh, no, they would have been really young.

998
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:17.099
I would say Frank Gatliff is in his 40s and Kimber looks like he's

999
00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:19.500
in his 50s and that's 20 years before things.

1000
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:23.039
He's Steed's boss in that one story.

1001
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:25.500
Because he was in state of decay, wasn't he?

1002
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:26.579
Yes, he was Calmar.

1003
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.840
No, he's charming in this.

1004
00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:28.380
He's lovely.

1005
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:29.820
So, you know, when he dies.

1006
00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:31.559
I really feel sad at that point.

1007
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:33.300
Yeah, Janet's reaction is great.

1008
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:33.960
Yeah, yeah.

1009
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:36.239
Janet's reaction's really good. it's really terrific.

1010
00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:40.440
Look, I like season 23 more than season 22.

1011
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:45.239
I'm kind of glad that the miserable cynicism of the Sabred era is

1012
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:45.900
now over.

1013
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:51.539
I don't think this is very good, but it's pleasant and brightly

1014
00:45:51.539 --> 00:45:58.019
coloured and reasonably enjoyable and it is Colin's doctor looking

1015
00:45:58.019 --> 00:46:01.619
really horrific, but actually being really rather lovely and

1016
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:03.840
playing to Colin's strengths as an actor, I think.

1017
00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:06.719
And I'm just going to say this coming from me.

1018
00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:08.099
You know, I love season 22.

1019
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:11.039
I love I love the friction and I love all that.

1020
00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:17.519
Had this been his doctor from day one, maybe things might have

1021
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:18.659
played out very differently.

1022
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:20.039
I think they would have done.

1023
00:46:20.099 --> 00:46:20.940
I think you're absolutely right.

1024
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:24.119
And that is possibly the reason that this is my favourite Colin

1025
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:24.659
Baker story.

1026
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:28.019
I agree, there's nothing particularly groundbreaking about it.

1027
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:32.099
Not only is it kind of standard Doctor Who tropes.

1028
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:34.380
It's standard Agatha Christie tropes in there as well.

1029
00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:39.059
And even then, you know, when Doland is revealed as the murderer.

1030
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:40.679
It's actually not terribly clear.

1031
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:43.980
I think because Malcolm Tierney's performance is very good, but

1032
00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:47.400
because he's so understated, that moment is understated as well.

1033
00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:49.260
As a kid, I never realised he was the murderer.

1034
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:52.860
But to me, as a kid, who was the murderer didn't matter because

1035
00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:53.519
there was monsters.

1036
00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:57.119
So I think also it fulfils the Doctor Who brief of, you know, it

1037
00:46:57.119 --> 00:46:58.920
works on different levels for kids and adults.

1038
00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:04.320
But yet, it's just Colin is clearly really enjoying himself, that

1039
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:05.639
comes across in the performance.

1040
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:10.139
He has immediate and great chemistry with Bonnie.

1041
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:14.219
The rest of the cast seem to be enjoying themselves on a black man

1042
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:17.880
has said later that while she enjoyed herself on it, she felt that

1043
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.719
the BBC weren't giving the show the support that it used to have

1044
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:22.199
and she was right.

1045
00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:26.280
Michael Craig had was told off by the director several times

1046
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:30.900
because whenever he fired his gun, he'd go, and they had to

1047
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:33.119
explain to him, no, Michael, we do that in post.

1048
00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:34.260
Oh, sorry, I'm just so excited.

1049
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:36.119
Like, he was really happy to be in it.

1050
00:47:36.179 --> 00:47:37.500
It's nice to hear.

1051
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:42.780
Yeah, so it seems to be sort of a callback to those early Peter

1052
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.539
Davidson days where when the guest cars talk about it, they're

1053
00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:47.639
like, oh, you know, we were in Doctor Who and we were having such

1054
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:48.360
a fun time.

1055
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:52.380
Doctor Who is starting to be fun again.

1056
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:53.639
That's why I love this one so much.

1057
00:48:17.699 --> 00:48:21.360
Well, dear listener, we've been charged with genocide, so we're

1058
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.659
going to come back next week, but it had just all that swept onto

1059
00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:28.019
the rug, because, I don't know, we've paid no tax or something.

1060
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.960
It's the ultimate foe next week, so do come back for that.

1061
00:48:31.019 --> 00:48:34.139
In the meantime, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety

1062
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:37.139
sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE

1063
00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:38.280
podcast on Twitter.

1064
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:41.880
Don't forget, you can vote in our Tom Baker commentary, and the 4

1065
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:48.360
options are the hand of fear, the sun makers, the stones of blood

1066
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:50.699
and the horns of Nymon.

1067
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.119
You can find a link to the poll in the show notes, and also at

1068
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:57.900
flightthroughentirety.sexy to see what James Bond was up to at

1069
00:48:57.900 --> 00:49:01.619
roughly the same time as this, or maybe about a year later, check

1070
00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:04.320
out Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and

1071
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.039
Bondfinger cast on Twitter, where we are currently slumming it

1072
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:09.239
with Timothy Dalton.

1073
00:49:09.300 --> 00:49:12.179
Until next week, may none of you forget that you're not supposed

1074
00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:15.059
to be able to have oxygen, so why are you drinking a water-based

1075
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:15.539
beverage?

1076
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:17.159
Thank you very much for listening a good night.

1077
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:17.880
Good night.

1078
00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:18.960
See you soon.

1079
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:24.059
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd BLB, Nathan

1080
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:27.480
Bottomley, and Brendan Jones. theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1081
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:30.900
This episode, the Demeter seed game, was recorded on the 1st of

1082
00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:31.860
April 2017.

1083
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:35.400
The next episode will be released on the 21st of May.

1084
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:39.719
Fans of the Doctor Who cookbook will also enjoy the vegetarian

1085
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:43.139
cookbook we've just released at Flight 3 Entirety Press, including

1086
00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:47.219
recipes for smashed vervoid on toast, Varga primavera, and lush

1087
00:49:47.219 --> 00:49:48.539
aggressive Musaka.

1088
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:51.960
Now, what's my line?

1089
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:54.900
I'm surprised that you didn't say anything really rude about

1090
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:56.579
slumming it with Timothy Dolson.

1091
00:49:57.179 --> 00:50:00.840
I've already been a sexual predator enough about Timothy Dalton, I

1092
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:01.019
think.

1093
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:04.559
Just formulating a line.

1094
00:50:07.619 --> 00:50:09.960
This is Colin's last story.

1095
00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:11.519
This is the last one he filmed.

1096
00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:11.880
Yeah.

1097
00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:13.980
Finally, they get it right for him.

1098
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:16.739
So unfair.

1099
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:21.599
Like, you know, he, he, he's given so much and he's tried, The

1100
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:22.440
character's changed.

1101
00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:26.039
He's really, you know, he doesn't deserve the treatment that he

1102
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:26.280
got.

1103
00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:30.059
Yeah, he's responded to all the criticism. gone above and beyond

1104
00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:34.440
because it's not his job to fix, you know, and yeah, he.

1105
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:36.900
They just don't want the show and they just don't want the show.

1106
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:40.199
Yeah, there are times when I can hardly blame them.

1107
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.400
Yeah, well, yeah, but they make decisions to ensure that they just

1108
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:45.300
don't want the show.

1109
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:45.780
Yeah, yeah.