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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:47:43

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast who may not be with you corporeally, but we are enjoying ourselves immensely.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm Todd, and it's time to wrap up this trial with the final segment known as the Ultimate Foe.

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It's been a long, long 14 weeks to get to this point, or 572 weeks, depending on how you look at it.

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Yeah, so we have this two-parter, which was shot third.

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It was shot before Terror of the Belvoids.

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These 6 episodes were shot as a 6 parter, which is why we get all this lovely location work in the industrial museum with all those lovely buildings and pride in every cog and piston.

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So this is Bonnie Langford's 1st work on the show chronologically, and also, as we know, Robert Holmes' last work on the show, as he passed away while writing the final episode.

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Yeah, so that's that's pretty much the background of this one.

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I think it is a giant mess.

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And I think it exhibits all of the problems that we've talked about with the trial before, that they didn't go into it with any coherent plan about what was going on or how the bits of evidence fitted together.

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And so, at the end, it just becomes kind of clear that no one is on the same page.

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And the whole thing is just massively exacerbated by Holmes's death.

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He doesn't finish episode 14.

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He writes episode 13, which I think is probably the best single episode of the trial.

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He doesn't get to write episode 14.

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Say would write a script for episode 14, but then has a giant dummy spit and walks taking it with him.

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And who else do we get in to do a sort of a sudden patch up job at very short notice with very short turnaround time than Pip and Jane Baker?

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Question about episode 13.

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I thought Bob did a pass of it, and he was ill, and I thought Popplewick was actually Eric Saywood's creation.

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That's quite possible because Eric Saywood does massively rewrite the script from the moment the doctor enters the Matrix.

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So the plot, if you like, is Robert Holmes and some of the dialogue might be, but from various reports, it looks like from halfway through the episode, it's 90% Eric Saywood.

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And Robert Holmes' name ends up on it for 2 reasons.

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One, it was still frowned upon at the BBC for script editors, too, commission themselves.

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And also Eric had such deep respect for Robert Holmes and took the attitude that if he could have finished writing it, he would have done.

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The reason that Eric's part 14 doesn't end up going on screen is the reason that Eric left the show and gave that explosive interview in Starburst where he called everyone horrible.

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And that is in the initial conception of the season.

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Spoiler alert, the Valiard is a future incarnation of the doctor, or as he ends up being a distillation of the doctor's evil impulse, somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation.

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But in the initial thought, which was agreed to by Eric, by John, and by Robert Holmes, the doctor in the Valiard, we're going to end up in a sort of Reichenbach fall situation where they fall into something and there's a season cliffhanger as to whether the doctor gets out or not.

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Now, it's never been confirmed, but it's been suggested that part of the reason for that is JNT knew that this was meant to be his final year again.

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And he also knew that once he left, people could make whatever changes to the show they wanted.

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So in JNT's mind at that stage when they were 1st scripting everything.

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If they decided they wanted to get rid of everyone, including Colin, you can have a regeneration offscreen and do that.

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During the development of the season.

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JNT realised that you were going to have 13 weeks of cliffhangers followed by another cliffhanger.

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And thought, well that's not very fair to the audience.

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You know, originally when I'd heard rumours of what, say, what's initial script for episode 14 was like, I thought that, you know, a giant cliffhanger liked that at the end would have been terribly exciting, but now I think it would have been a terrible mistake.

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I think you've put us through all this nonsense for 14 weeks and you're going to leave us there like that.

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It's just not really good enough.

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And it's sort of say word drama.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Oh, we'll kill the companion.

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Oh, you know, we're going to be very gritty.

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The doctor's going to be off his face on Vox, Nick.

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You know, we're real grown ups here.

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But in fact, it is a sort of cheap and sort of rather dismal end to something that's been going on for a long time, and I think the audience probably deserves something better than that.

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Agreed.

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The audience deserves answers, you know, and it deserves a proper conclusion.

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But the problem is, as we've discussed, the trial was never really set up properly anyway, to resemble a real trial.

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And I think another problem is the fact that they give themselves just 2 episodes to do it in.

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And when you watch that big expose on the DVD for the last episodes of trial about the whole making of it, He goes into the fact like the 1st story is not actually supposed to be a trial. an inquiry.

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You know, I really think that should have been 3 episodes, and then 4 episodes with Perry's death in the middle, 4 episodes, and then give us 3 episodes at the end of actual, you know, time to actually process everything and give us answers and actual danger.

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Like, you know, we haven't had real danger.

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And this is why I think I like this episode the best out of all the season.

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Like the fact that suddenly the doctor is put into danger and is not in a box in a room commenting on the TV.

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You know, I look back and I can't give it to a single Pip and Jane Baker episode.

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I have problems with the 1st story, you know, with all the terrible puns on Neckajard and all that sort of stuff and I think episode 4 and episode 5 have the worst bits of that in it.

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Then you've got the two episodes in middle of mine, where the doctor, Izzy, or isn't he, and I think that's a problem.

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And then you've got all the, the last episode of mine will wear all the dialogue for the inquisitor should really be the valley yards.

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So I think by default, this episode, because it gives us some answers, right, to a degree.

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And there's and there's real danger happening, ends up, I think, probably been the best written.

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And then this whole concept about the value I'd been, this distillation between the 12th and final incarnation, the doctor like came in.

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Well, how did that come about?

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Did the timelords create him?

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Because he found out about Ravelocks or was it some sort of future experiment that's gone wrong with the master?

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You know?

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There's no answer.

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I actually don't mind that so much.

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I think, you know, we've kind of seen things like Choji and the Watcher and stuff who are kind of adjuncts to a time lord around about the time of their regeneration and we can kind of sort of squint and see that maybe the valleyard's the same thing.

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And I think any kind of real explanation would be a little bit leaden.

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I don't think it's any coincidence that the Valiard hasn't found his way into Doctor Who mythology, really.

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He does get a throwaway reference in a Matt Smith episode, I think.

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Yes, in the name of the doctor.

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Yeah.

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So he does get reference there.

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But, you know, the new adventures deliberately went out of their way to avoid him as a kind of, it's a bit of a mess.

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He doesn't really make his way into our mythology.

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And I think because he is sort of slightly half baked.

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I think the thing that makes the Valiard good is Michael Jason's performance, but he's not, he's either master.

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I think the masters are kind of terrible character that's only saved by some of the actor's performances.

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But essentially he's just, or she is just someone who's evil for no particular reason.

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And the same with the valiard.

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I think, in fact, it's not where the valiard comes from sort of metaphysically, but why the doctor's evil impulses are kind of lawful evil, as it were.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He's not a maniac and he's been sitting around for the last 12 weeks going, I'm going to go through this charade of a trial.

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You know, he's not insane.

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No.

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And the doctor is someone who rebels against bureaucracy and laws and strictures, and that's a particularly homes-in conception of what the doctor's about.

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Whereas the valiard's quite the opposite of that.

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It's not just that the valiard's evil, but the valiard is interested in procedure and rules and laws and all of those kinds of things.

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So he's the doctor's opposite.

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But, you know, like the doctor secretly fantasises about filling in lots of forms and stuff. you know, is that is that what we're to understand?

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It doesn't really make any sense.

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And it's not helped by the fact that we have a change of writers.

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And Pipp and Jane Baker have to write that script in 3 or 4 days.

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And so they put their own take on it.

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So he goes from wanting the future incarnations to suddenly, you know, wanting to destroy all the time lords in the trial room, which is going to cause the downfall of the high council.

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Like it makes no real sense.

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Like, has have Gallifrey all been watching this trial from the beginning?

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It seems to indicate that when insurrectionists are running a Mark on Gallifre, Well, they could only have been watching this trial because, you know, the high counsellor corrupt and the doctor is a champion of the people.

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Do you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah, and it's terrible word peril as well.

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I mean, nothing could be less interesting than insurrectionists running a mark on Gallifrey, I think.

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But we don't even see that.

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You know, it is just something that's said by someone to up the stakes and it really muddies the water of what the trial's about.

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In fact, I think it's a perfect metaphor for the trial.

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No one making the show had any idea what the trial was about.

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And so bringing Pip and Jane in at the last minute to kind of wreck it kind of works on some level.

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Yeah, there's even a line early on from the Inquisitor in one of the earlier stories where she says that this is a secret tribunal, and yet everyone on Gallifrey seems to have been watching it sitting in Zorak's box on their laptops, you know what I mean?

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Something I do love about this particular episode.

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So we've had...

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We've had Doctor Who basically adopt this new structure and it's not even terribly good.

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It's 3 people sitting in a room commentating on the action.

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So what they do in episode 13 is the master turns up and breaks the show, which is what the master is meant to do.

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That light, you know, where the inquisitor says you have no part in these proceedings and he says, no, but I'm enjoying myself immensely.

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He just turns up and wrecks everything because when he comes in, he sends glitz there to give us the exposition of what was happening in the 1st story and why the doctor is on trial.

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And even though it's an info dump, because it's glitz, kind of just giving the information off hand, because he doesn't think it's important, that makes it interesting.

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And then when the master makes the big reveal that the valleyard is actually the doctor or a distillation of the doctor or whatever, again, it's just conversational because I don't care, you know, but we don't care because we don't care about this program.

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So are you saying like it's like they don't really care?

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No, no, I'm saying it's really good because it kind of reestablishes the master because a big complaint we've had about the Ainley master is at his worst, he just turns up to kill the doctor and that's his raise of d'etre, whereas here he's seen the doctor is in trouble and he's just like, oh, while he's in trouble and everyone's looking that way, I can go in and plunder the matrix.

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Oh, and by the way, he's your evil twin, didn't you know?

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Anyway, I'm off.

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Yeah, it is a throwaway line, is it?

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It's a throwaway line and it helps to establish that he's got his own stuff going on.

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It's not just about you, Colin.

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I think that's a good take.

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Like, I mean, when I watched it as a kid.

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Like, it's just his throwaway line. going, what?

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What?

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That's how you're going to reveal this, you know?

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Now I think it does work in that way.

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Yeah, well, I think how it kind of works is that the masters turned up and he takes control of the show for a bit.

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And then after that reveal, Colin stands up and he's just incredibly still and he repeats the information and we're back on him now.

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So that episode, there's kind of a bit of a tussle for control of the show, but it works.

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I think Colin's really good when he learns that the Valliards him, that Revelation should halt this trial immediately.

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I really like that line and I think that's quite tense.

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For an episode, that has mostly been people standing around and talking.

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And of course, the Italian gets away because the guards are just standing there doing nothing.

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I think that's one of the things I kind of think, you know, I've commented about the black studio floor before.

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And I used to think it was like supposed to be like a big abyss or something like that, but instead it's like, oh, no, we're just going to have you run across the front of the camera and then around the back, you know, the limitations of this trial room.

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But of course, you know, Anthony's also under contract to do his appearance for the seasons and they have to work him in somewhere.

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Well, they could just pay him and not have him appear.

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They do that sometimes.

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Well, they did that for Colin and Nicola last year.

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Well that's it.

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Colin got paid for a whole extra season.

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So we do get 2 witnesses, right?

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We get Sabalong glitz.

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And I do love it when they're in the Matrix and that spear comes out of nowhere and just goes straight into his stomach.

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I always laugh my head off.

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But it is again a rewriting of the whole Matrix concept that you can physically go into the Matrix.

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But in a sense, I don't care very much about that.

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I actually think it's better to have them go through a door than it is to have them lie down on a bench and strap a big thing to their head.

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You know what I mean?

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That's boring.

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So that never really worried me.

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I think that this version of the Matrix is obviously vastly less interesting than the one we got in episode 3 of The Deadly Assassin, which was really tense and sort of terribly interesting.

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This is a lot of running around and a lot of sort of fake out peril and things that make no sense, but not in a sort of weird kind of fabulously surreal kind of way.

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It's kind of like poison gas and quicksand and, you know, the whole thing kind of just falls to pieces.

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And that's why I'm not sorry that we only have 2 episodes of it because once we leave the trial and everyone's just sitting around the trial room kind of watching everything else on telly.

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What actually happens in the Matrix isn't all that good, really.

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Well, I just love the fact that the doctor's out there and in peril and at least something's happening, at least when not just, you know?

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But I think Melanie comes off worse for wear in this one.

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I mean, it's her 1st story, but things like Melanie known as Mel, and she goes, that's it, doc.

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Now we're getting at the dirt, like just lines of dialogue that just don't really add to her character.

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Well, they don't work because they're written by Pip and Jane Baker, you know, a lot of the time.

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Or Eric Saywood. or Eric Saywood.

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We're never sure.

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And the other thing is, of course, that we said last week, the way that Mel performs it, the way that Bonnie Langford chooses to perform it at this stage is very theatrical and very big.

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And so she's unable to rescue those lines, just by acting.

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And we know that she is a good actor.

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And we've seen her have moments of it, but her standard way of presenting herself at this stage really does the dialogue kind of no favours at all.

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She does get very good moments, though.

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I actually, it's a bit too large, but I love the moment with the fake trial and her objection to that.

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And she sums it up really well with, The doctors convinced he must sacrifice to himself and you're prepared to let him do that.

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I think she plays the disgust of that very well.

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Again, it's a bit too loud.

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Getting back to something you said earlier about this interior of the Matrix, I actually like it more than the Deadly Assassin, because, you know, we're told that this is the Valeyards domain and he's creating it.

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So it is more disciplined and more structured.

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And I think all the stuff in the sort of Victorian steamworks is in a way critiquing the show because the doctor has always had this Victorian or Edwardian sensibility.

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And the Valiards using that against him.

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He's using all this grand grinol, as the 6 doctor says, which the doctor loves so much. and turning it in on itself and he's using bureaucracy as well, which he knows the doctor hates.

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I think it's actually not quite taken far enough.

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Yeah, especially the bit on the beach then has no connection.

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No.

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It's striking visually.

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It just has no connection.

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Well, it's not that striking.

190
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It's like the world's most miserable day at the beach.

191
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:31.799
But the wind and the sort of desolation with the valley are then popping in and out of reality, and his lines start before he pops into reality, and it kind of breaks what you would expect to happen, which is he would appear, deliver a line of dialogue, and then have to stand very still while they line up the film and disappear.

192
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:38.400
And this time because they're working on video and they have that stability, instead of working on film, they're just like, no, we're just going to do it this way.

193
00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:41.579
And there's some really good shot composition there as well.

194
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:46.980
Like when Glitz is suggesting insults for the doctor at the valleyard creeps up behind him over his shoulder.

195
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:48.359
Oh, microbe.

196
00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:49.920
I do love that sequence.

197
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:58.559
And obviously that's Spip and Jane Baker at the beginning of episode 14, but I also love it when they go through the waiting room and the doctor says, this is a very odd waiting room.

198
00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:00.119
I just love that particular one.

199
00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.539
I like the 2nd waiting room where I think Mel opens the door and there's a dragon.

200
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.140
It is fabulously silly and random, isn't it?

201
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:07.859
Yeah, yeah.

202
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.240
And, you know, Colin and Bonnie are great together.

203
00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:13.920
And to Colin's great credit.

204
00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:28.019
When Bonnie comes into the trial room, he plays it differently than he plays it in vervoids, because in vervoids, they've known each other for ages and they have kind of verbal shorthand together and they bounce off each other, whereas here he's actually really wary of her.

205
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.740
He calls her Melanie rather than Mel because he hasn't met her yet.

206
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.259
And when he goes into the Matrix.

207
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:35.640
He takes glitz with him.

208
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:39.059
He doesn't take Mel because of Perry's death.

209
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:41.519
And he knows Glitz and doesn't know Mel.

210
00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:42.059
Yeah.

211
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:48.119
But also because Mel's a girl and we just need her to stand around rather than getting involved in the action.

212
00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:50.460
There's that hilarious bit, right?

213
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.220
Where the keeper trips her over and you think, oh, that's a bit rubbish.

214
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:57.480
But that is brilliantly cut down sort of 2 things later where he tries to trip her over again.

215
00:19:57.539 --> 00:20:01.259
It looks really pleased with himself and she kicks him in the shin and nicks the key.

216
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.559
I really love that because you're like, that 1st one was crap.

217
00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:09.660
And she's like, well, full me once, shame on you, full me twice.

218
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:10.740
I won't be fooled again.

219
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.660
I love the fact that you love all that.

220
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:13.920
It's just so stupid.

221
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.579
I actually think they're going, really?

222
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:18.660
We're kicking each other.

223
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.299
This is how we get into the matrix.

224
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:28.019
And, you know, a few minutes ago we talked about these wonderful lines that she has, like, she goes, you know, when the master goes, one must destroy the utterance.

225
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:31.200
She goes, how utterly evil, how utterly over the top.

226
00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:34.319
And then she goes, the value has taken...

227
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.900
Advantage of the doctor's romantic nature.

228
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.700
I just want to vomit at this.

229
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:44.400
I actually think that there's there's another remember the Megarian who forgot to switch on his translator.

230
00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:50.700
There's another one of those scenes, which again makes no sense, but Pip and Jane clearly think is sort of terribly clever.

231
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:58.559
When it's the fake trial room, uh, and we pull back and we're in the real trial room watching the other trial room in the trial room.

232
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:14.940
I just want to say before we go on criticising that, that's a beautiful shot, but she says that the doctor refuted the charge of genocide and then later on the doctor says, but that's how I knew it was all a simulation because you weren't there and you wouldn't have made that mistake.

233
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.779
And you kind of go, well, actually, she wouldn't have made that mistake.

234
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.980
How could she have made a mistake by accidentally remembering something that she didn't see?

235
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.559
I mean, it all just kind of really makes no sense.

236
00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:31.380
And then, of course, it gets taken out in that sort of tumbl through the Victorian streets.

237
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:40.380
You'd have to think the doctor would have twigged by then that he was in the Matrix if he's, you know, in a horse drawn carriage somehow on Gallifray.

238
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:46.259
It's all just a bit inconsequential and all a bit of a runaround and it doesn't really go anywhere.

239
00:21:46.319 --> 00:22:02.400
And the moments that try and talk about the nature of the trial, don't come off, that whole sort of sleepers thing, the reveal that Glitz does in episode 13 about Ravelocks and the sleepers and all of that makes just literally no sense at all.

240
00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:15.480
And there's no way that the valiard would have chosen that bit as a segment of prosecution evidence, if it contained all of this sort of stuff that was going to implicate the high council.

241
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:17.460
No one's motive is clear.

242
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:25.019
We're running around and escaping and falling into quicksand and stuff and it all just sort of falls to bits, doesn't it?

243
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:29.940
Well, yes, I guess it does, but I can't help but like it.

244
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.660
Oh, no, no, that's those 2 things aren't in any way contradictory.

245
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:49.440
I actually really enjoy these 2 episodes, all the runaround, the fact there's action, and I like a lot of the visuals, and you also have like the keeper of the Matrix, played by James Bre, um, Oh, what a stupid fool he is.

246
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:52.619
Matrix, my Matrix?

247
00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:53.940
Please.

248
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.940
And Popplewick, who I really love Popplewick.

249
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:02.220
Yeah, I think Popplewick seems homes in, but we reckon he's by say we're doing.

250
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:07.920
By the time the character was written, it was Saywood, but there was always that character in there.

251
00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:12.779
Do you think he was always going to be revealed as the valleyard in a latex mask, though?

252
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:15.420
I, you know what, I think probably not.

253
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:21.660
But a lot changed from sort of conception to execution because in Robert Holmes' initial idea.

254
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.339
The master was behind the whole trial.

255
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:31.440
And Eric Saywood gave him the same advice he gave Terence Dix in the 5 doctors where he said, well, everyone's going to expect that.

256
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:48.539
So, like in the 5 doctors, it was, no, let's have Barusa is the evil one rather than the master, and in this, say, it was like, well, A, if as soon as the master turns up, everyone thinks he's created this, when he's actually just taken advantage of it, and B, no, we've been establishing the Valiard as the villain for 12 weeks.

257
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:49.500
So that's what we need to have.

258
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.119
And I think that's a very wise decision.

259
00:23:51.180 --> 00:24:00.180
Because as I said earlier, it gives Anthony Ainley's master, the rare opportunity to actually have a life outside of wanting the doctor dead.

260
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.440
We get to see Anthony Ainley's master in his Tartars.

261
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:06.420
Is that a different set?

262
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.799
Like, or is it just like?

263
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:09.299
No, it's the same set, painted black.

264
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.960
So, um, what, they come in and they just planted the white set black?

265
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:13.319
Yeah.

266
00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:14.940
And then paint it back again.

267
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:16.019
And then paint it back again.

268
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:17.460
Which is insanity.

269
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.680
I believe that is also what they had to do on this occasion because this was filmed before vervoids.

270
00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:26.940
And vervoids was the 1st time we had seen it this season.

271
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.500
We haven't seen it in the previous 2 stories.

272
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:39.539
We also get to see in one of the worst props ever, which could have come out of a panto, which is the pirate treasure that glitz seems to be really enamoured with.

273
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:44.099
It's just so rubbish. sort of plastic, rudely spray painted gold.

274
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.400
Yes, yes, I just kind of go, oh, really?

275
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.619
We have learned at least that the BBC budget does run to paint, though, which is nice to know.

276
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:59.759
Although, the whole thing with the pantomime chest is the master says, will this appeal to your crass soul?

277
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:02.759
He knows he's dealing with someone who likes shiny baubles.

278
00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:05.759
I love the mastering glitz together in this.

279
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:16.920
I mean, I think they're pretty good, but again, they're part of the plot involves sort of hypnotising the doctor and all sorts of really tiresome things that we've seen 100s of times before.

280
00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:21.839
And then Paul Pip and Jane Baker have to pull all of this stuff together, right?

281
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:22.859
having not really been involved.

282
00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:36.359
And so we end up changing the premise where they're going to destroy all the time laws in the trial room, which is apparently going to cause this insurrection on Galifre, and the doctor discovers a megabyte modem.

283
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:38.220
I don't even like, what is that?

284
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:39.779
Did she have one of those in her house?

285
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:40.680
Her modem.

286
00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:45.119
She was connected to the internet by a big steampunk wooden box with sort of flashing lights on it.

287
00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:49.079
If you watch their interview on the...

288
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:50.279
Pip and Jane's box set.

289
00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:57.839
They go to great pains to say that they rang up some computer scientist people who came up with this wonderful idea for them, right?

290
00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:00.480
But of course, we didn't have modems back then.

291
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:06.420
So they've gone, well, we've got a thing called a modem, and then we know this term called megabyte, right?

292
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.440
We're just going to put them together and Pip and Jane won't know the difference and, you know, there it is.

293
00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:22.259
Do you remember back in the day when on the back of exercise books on the back cover, they would have common computer terms and it would be things like cobalt and, you know, what a bite is and stuff like that.

294
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.740
Yeah, I reckon someone...

295
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:30.720
Yeah, yeah, they've just picked 2 of those words at random and put them together. it doesn't actually go anywhere.

296
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:36.180
I mean, I guess the idea is to establish Mel as a computer scientist.

297
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.160
Although, so she says computer-y things.

298
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:39.180
Computery things.

299
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:41.339
That's right, but it's not that at all.

300
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:43.380
And then I don't understand what's going on.

301
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:59.160
Like, it does seem that something happens in the trial room and all of these sort of video effect spidery things come out to attack everyone in the trial room and we have to evacuate the trial room and then something happens back in the Matrix and then we cut back.

302
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:02.880
But instead of evacuating the trial room, they've all just sort of fallen over on their desks.

303
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:05.279
Yeah, because they can't move in those collars.

304
00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:07.200
Yeah, maybe that's they're there for the day.

305
00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:09.779
There's a ray phase shift.

306
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:10.500
Is that?

307
00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:11.940
It's triggered a ray phase shift.

308
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.279
And so are those rays coming out of that thing?

309
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:20.519
And so the screen's going to explode and all they can do is bow down and have their their special Time Lord helmety things protect them.

310
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:21.480
Oh maybe that's it.

311
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:23.339
It's Galafrand, duck and cover.

312
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:24.059
That's what those are for.

313
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:25.200
Yeah maybe that's it.

314
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:27.000
But then it doesn't disseminate anyway.

315
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:30.299
I mean, the valliard just kind of falls over and stuff.

316
00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:34.859
It doesn't get... pulls over and puts his hand out as if to say, ah, yeah, no, it's...

317
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:35.579
Which is another good shot.

318
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.200
Yes, I agree.

319
00:27:37.259 --> 00:27:43.619
Okay, how I understand that scene, and I totally get that, it frustrates people even to this day.

320
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:47.039
So Mel opens the cupboard and she says, it's a megabyte modem.

321
00:27:47.099 --> 00:27:49.380
And the doctor comes in and says, it's amazing.

322
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.119
I think the missing word is there no.

323
00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:53.579
No, it's amazing.

324
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:55.019
Yeah, that's the thing.

325
00:27:55.079 --> 00:28:00.720
She's meant to get it wrong because part of her character brief is despite the fact she's a computer programmer, she can't work the TARDIS.

326
00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:02.460
So she doesn't know Gallifran technology.

327
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:09.720
Why she would think a modem with her, you know, even if you look at a 56 K modem from the 90s, the lights are not that big.

328
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:12.660
No, they look like they're from the top of a police car.

329
00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:13.799
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

330
00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:19.319
So it is amazing, which is another acronym that Pip and Jane Baker liked to educate us.

331
00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:19.980
Yeah.

332
00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:24.299
Well, Maze's were an established thing, especially in Japanese science fiction.

333
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:31.079
Kaiju films, Godzilla, Gamera, had mazes and were matter amplification through stimulated emission of radiation.

334
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:34.440
It's a laser, but instead of using light, it uses matter.

335
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:37.380
I suppose in Star Trek that might call it, a particle beam.

336
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:38.220
Maybe.

337
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:39.180
Maybe.

338
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.059
Yeah, it's meant to disseminate.

339
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:46.200
And the doctor realises that the matrix screen is the conduit.

340
00:28:46.259 --> 00:29:05.220
So, again, I think it's a slight attempt to be a little bit metatextual in that the television is now dangerous and the television will send rays out, which will get you, which was something horror films were doing at the time, Halloween 3 season of The Witch, and the Nightmare on Elm Street in particular have a few television related deaths in them.

341
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:12.660
You must have felt that way about the television screen towards the end of your sort of marathon live tweets. story.

342
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:19.920
The thing is like Todd, I watched these last 2 episodes and it's actually a wonderful romp and the energy really picks up.

343
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.220
And if you look back on it later, you go, what's a megabyte modem?

344
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.660
Why wasn't anyone disseminated?

345
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:30.420
And I think the whole thing with the ray phase shift is actually related to black holes and singularities.

346
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:36.059
When light is stretched through a black hole, that is related to a ray phase shift.

347
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:41.819
So the idea is that in, to quote, to quote Stephen Moffatt.

348
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.660
The megabyte modem slash mazer will not only explode, it will implode.

349
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:53.759
It really does look like just here's a random assortment of half understood scientific terms, which we're going to throw at the dialogue at this point.

350
00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:57.299
Yeah, I mean, episode 14 is 5 minutes over.

351
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:58.980
It's almost 30 minutes long.

352
00:29:59.039 --> 00:29:59.579
Yeah.

353
00:29:59.579 --> 00:30:02.099
It was originally, I think, about 42.

354
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.859
So I think a lot of the explanation is cut and it is just made a Doctor Who thing off.

355
00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:13.319
It's going to explode and that's bad and there's going to be little squiggles.

356
00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:18.839
But at the same time, I can kind of watch it and go, okay, I can see what you're trying to do.

357
00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:20.339
I don't think you quite pull it off.

358
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:35.579
But I think you don't quite pull it off in a much better way than terminus doesn't quite pull it off with the whole, if we don't move this lever back to the start, with a dog robot, then the universe will be destroyed.

359
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.920
Yeah, that's peak word peril right there, isn't it?

360
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:40.140
So then we get the ending.

361
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:43.259
Where 2 things.

362
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:49.440
First of all, Perry is living as warrior queen with Yakanos.

363
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.859
And I think we did talk about that when we did Mind Warp.

364
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:57.900
I think it doesn't help and it's just, you know, adding insult to injury at this point.

365
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:05.339
But it's also one of the reasons why Eric Seyward also left because John Nathan Turner wanted happy endings and that was not part of the original breed.

366
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:06.180
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:09.720
I think Eric's exact words were panto walkdown ending.

368
00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:11.400
Why couldn't it have been something a bit different?

369
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:12.539
Like she could have got back to earth.

370
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:16.619
Well, because we don't know all of that stuff could have been all, you know, faked.

371
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:21.839
The ending of it could have been the doctor did actually save the day and Perry said, I've had enough return me home.

372
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:23.519
I think it is what we said the other week.

373
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:27.359
It's Andrew Hodson's contract casino or whatever we said.

374
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:28.079
Contract roulette.

375
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:29.039
Contract roulette.

376
00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:29.640
That was it.

377
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.940
It's just she happened to be with Jokanos at the end.

378
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.579
You know, they had a nice scene together.

379
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:46.859
We decided very ill advisedly that that was the basis for happy or indeed acceptable marriage and will tinged the screen a bit pink and everything will be okay.

380
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.460
The novelisation of Mind Warp does it much, much better.

381
00:31:50.579 --> 00:32:03.900
So the final chapter of the novelisation ends with the courtroom actually emptying and the doctors just left there standing alone and utterly distraught by himself with no one to comfort him.

382
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:10.859
The epilogue is then Perry is back in the States and a time storm whipped up.

383
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:12.420
She's back there with Yakanos.

384
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:13.619
She doesn't know how she got back there.

385
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.000
She doesn't know what's happened to the doctor.

386
00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:17.700
She hopes he's okay, but she's his wrestling manager.

387
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:23.579
She's Yukanos' wrestling manager and she's just had to explain to him, no, you don't actually kill people.

388
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:28.680
It's just pretend, but he's very happy because people seem to be happy with it.

389
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.900
And you know, sometimes she thinks about the doctor.

390
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.000
And in that ending as well.

391
00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:37.019
There's a hint of romance between them, but it's not really overtly stated.

392
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.480
It's just that she's very fond of Yukanos.

393
00:32:39.539 --> 00:32:45.059
And so we get our cake and we eat it as well in that ending because the doctor doesn't know what's happened to her.

394
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:48.900
So we get the emotional impact of her death.

395
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.920
But then we find out that she's had an unconventional ending.

396
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:59.099
She hasn't just been married off, which was Nicola's like one demand was don't marry me off.

397
00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:01.740
And she's happy.

398
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:10.680
Um, there's there's a great bit on the DVD where they record a commentary just for that reveal scene at the end with Colin and Nicola.

399
00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:15.240
And I think it's called a fate worse than death, i.e. being married to Brian Blessard.

400
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.720
Nicola all the way through is just like, yeah, yeah.

401
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:21.660
Yeah, they decided to do this.

402
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:22.799
Oh god, yes.

403
00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:23.279
Okay.

404
00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:25.619
Colin's laughing his head off.

405
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:33.960
And then we've got the 6th doctor and Mel going into the TARDIS with, of course, his last lines, characters, characters, characters.

406
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:37.140
But there's no attempt to even say, well, well, I need to return you home.

407
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:46.140
Look, as a fan, as a continuity person, I just kind of go, look, couldn't he have returned to home, like, because we've only got 2 episodes, we don't even have time to do that.

408
00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:49.380
I also think it is just that they don't care.

409
00:33:49.500 --> 00:34:12.300
And it probably has something to do with the fact that there's this sort of hastily rewritten ending, we weren't going to have the doctor and Mel get into the Tardisan leave originally at the end of the trial, but now we have to do it and any dialogue about returning her would have been kind of a bit leaden and uninteresting at the end.

410
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:22.440
But there is this sense we don't get to see Mel meet the doctor, you know, next year when she leaves him, she leaves him for no reason at all.

411
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:23.579
Her contracts are.

412
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.420
And so she's really kind of poorly served, I think.

413
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.659
And her backstory makes no sense at all.

414
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:43.019
Gary Russell wrote a novel called Business Unusual, in which he tried to kind of write a story where they meet that was in some way consistent with the kind of character outline that had been written.

415
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:51.840
The thing is, though, even the ultimate foe, isn't consistent with the character outline that was written because in a character outline, she meets the doctor during a story involving the master.

416
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:55.679
And in the ultimate foe, she sees the master and says, who's that?

417
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:57.360
Yeah, yeah, she's never heard of him.

418
00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:00.780
And not only that, but he sent her there.

419
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.480
So as it says in the discontinuity guide.

420
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:05.579
It appears that some force has been involved.

421
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:08.519
He didn't just ask her to get into the casket nicely.

422
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:11.400
That's it.

423
00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:13.380
None of it, none of it makes any sense at all.

424
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:15.059
And they don't care.

425
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.039
It's just, we've got Bonnie Langford in.

426
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:18.420
She's the Doctor Who girl now.

427
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:22.500
We don't really care about her as a character in a drama.

428
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:26.820
It's a bit of a throwback to, you know, the late heart and all era.

429
00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:30.599
Or, you know, the 60s where they're just sort of dumping people left, right?

430
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:33.659
And centre in the middle of a story when their contract ended.

431
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:42.000
Or, you know, that terrible Graham Williams thing where he kind of forgets to contract anyone except for Tom for season 17.

432
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:45.360
So, you know, I think it's pretty unfortunate.

433
00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:51.900
And Mel suffers not only from that because we don't know what she's like as a person before she meets the doctor.

434
00:35:51.900 --> 00:36:01.619
And she suffers from the fact that of her 1st 10 episodes, 9 of them are written by Pip and Jane Baker who can't do dialogues.

435
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:03.539
So it's unfortunate.

436
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.320
I like her.

437
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:13.559
I think she's very charming and she's got a lot of charisma as a performer, but she doesn't get to be a character really at any stage.

438
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:16.800
Yeah, the only thing that really saves me as a character is Bonnie Langford.

439
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:26.219
Because, and the strange thing is, other actors who have come into Doctor Who have approached it with reverence and not necessarily done so well.

440
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:38.039
You know, I'm thinking maybe of Matthew Waterhouse, who was very reverent to the program, but was given, I would say, character material as deficient as the character material Mel is given.

441
00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:52.619
And yet not constructed as clear a character because even though Mel doesn't get much character in her dialogue, you know, you look at Bonnie and the way Bonnie plays her, she's like, right, I'm enthusiastic, I'm prone to being scared, but I recover quickly.

442
00:36:52.679 --> 00:37:02.820
There are distinct elements to her personality you can pull out, whereas Adric, you're like, oh, he's a bit sulky, and then you wonder, well, is he being sulky, or is Matthew Waterhouse being sulky?

443
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:10.679
But I mean, think about Adric, and even think about Nissa and Tegan, all of whom are really foregrounded in their 1st story.

444
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:15.420
We get to see them in their own world, in their own context before they join the doctor.

445
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:21.000
And season 18 is very, very careful about the introduction of all of those characters.

446
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:23.219
And then who's the next person to be introduced?

447
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:24.300
Turlow, again?

448
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.360
You know, even though he's really sketchily outlined.

449
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:30.480
You know, we don't know really where he comes from or anything very much about him.

450
00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:35.280
A lot of care is taken to introduce what kind of person he is.

451
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.440
That's very true.

452
00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:42.000
You know, we're we're recording this the day before.

453
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:43.320
Can I say this?

454
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:49.800
We're recording this the day before the pilot comes out, introducing Pearl Mackey's character, Bill.

455
00:37:49.860 --> 00:38:01.559
And we know from just all the pre-publicity stuff that the 1st episode is very largely going to be about introducing her and giving her an in into the doctor's world.

456
00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:04.199
And that's the right approach.

457
00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:12.539
I think, think about the 1st episode of Doctor Who, which is all about Barbara and Ian discovering the doctor and ending up in his world.

458
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:14.039
And we don't bother to do that anymore.

459
00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:22.500
Yeah, and really, there was no reason that terror of the vervoids couldn't have been written with Mel as the stewardess aboard the Hyperion 3.

460
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:27.119
You know, she didn't have to be the 1980s computer programmer.

461
00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:33.239
If she's a stewardess aboard the Hyperion 3, a 1000 years in the future, it'd be quite understandable that she would have some computer knowledge.

462
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:35.340
Yeah she'd know what a megabyte modem was.

463
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:36.119
Yeah, exactly.

464
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:40.440
And then she stows away at the end and the value I could say, ah, well, you've taken another companion.

465
00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:41.699
The doctor says, well, it wasn't my choice.

466
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:47.880
You know, you can see she stowed away and then she turns up in there and we have an introduction story for her.

467
00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:48.480
And you know what?

468
00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:49.980
That has never occurred to me before.

469
00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:53.340
I just came up with that in the last 10 seconds he was talking.

470
00:38:53.579 --> 00:39:06.420
As for what we get instead where he wanders off with her at the end, you know, I thought for years, okay, the reason they haven't done a drop Mel back off with her own doctor is, you know, they have to set up a scene and do that and blah, blah, blah.

471
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:20.639
And again, I just thought, well, no, put Colin in his verboids costume, and while the doctor is talking to the inquisitor in the courtroom, Another 6 doctor pokes his head around the door in the vervoids outfit and says, oh, Mel, I've been looking everywhere for you.

472
00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:21.179
Come on.

473
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.360
And as she runs out, the inquisitor is just like, what?

474
00:39:24.420 --> 00:39:25.920
Well, she is from my future, you know.

475
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:32.159
Time for me to be off, and the other Colin leaves as well, and you get like maybe 2 Tartises next to each other disappearing at the same time.

476
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:40.260
And that, I think, gets the idea across without having to set up this whole scene and without having to have the leaden dialogue of, come along, Mel.

477
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.940
And with the resources they have, they don't have to hire any other actors will build any extra sets.

478
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:48.659
I had to see that vervoid tie again, though.

479
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.000
Oh, no, no, no, I don't want to go back there.

480
00:39:51.179 --> 00:40:00.360
And then we get the very typical Pip and Jane Baker ending where they like to end on some sort of cliffhanger note. right?

481
00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:07.739
Where, of course, you know, everything's wrapped up, the inquisitor, I think, is going to take charge of Gallifrey or whatever she's going to do.

482
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.619
And I really do love Linda Bellingham in these 2 episodes.

483
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:17.099
It's nice to see you actually walk into the out of the trial room and then back into the trial room rather than just sitting behind her at desk.

484
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:18.480
Poor love.

485
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:22.019
And then we get the final sequence of the keeper.

486
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:24.900
And then him turning to the camera to reveal.

487
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:27.599
It was the van.

488
00:40:27.659 --> 00:40:29.039
Do you think he was the val all along?

489
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:32.159
I always thought he came out on one of those squiggly line things.

490
00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:37.199
Because as he collapses, you see one go into his face and fly out of his face.

491
00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:42.719
So you reckon he just smacks James Bre on the head, you know, and took his clothes.

492
00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:47.099
Maybe there's a naked James Breed trussed up in a cupboard somewhere on that space station.

493
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:48.300
Don't tell Richard Franklin.

494
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:49.019
Maybe now.

495
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:50.099
Maybe even now.

496
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.679
I don't know what to say.

497
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:57.900
Look, the master alludes to the valiant's got control of the matrix.

498
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:01.860
So why can't he then be like the keeper of the Matrix?

499
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:04.079
Like, I'm thinking back to the pirate plant.

500
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:08.219
You know, you have like that old queen and then her young nurse projection, like that sort of thing.

501
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:13.019
That's how I've always thought of it, like a projection of him, but with just with a different face.

502
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:17.940
And then when it comes to it, you know, he has escaped because he's in control of the Matrix and he's from the Matrix.

503
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:21.599
And I do think that Michael, Jason does a great James Bri voice, you know?

504
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.579
Because when he goes, yes, my lady.

505
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:25.800
I actually thought it was like, yeah, yeah.

506
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:29.760
Yeah, you think there's something odd about his voice, but you don't immediately think it's Michael Jason.

507
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:33.059
And Todd, I think you might be onto something there because...

508
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:44.940
The keeper is constantly denying the possibility that anyone's broken into the Matrix, and he's constantly denying the possibility that someone can be based in the Matrix, and when it happens, he just goes, oh, I'm terribly surprised about that.

509
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:47.039
Yeah, maybe you're right, Todd.

510
00:41:47.099 --> 00:41:53.039
Maybe he's not the stumbling buffoon he appears, but he's just another popplewick style servant of the valleyard.

511
00:41:53.099 --> 00:41:54.059
Maybe.

512
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:55.559
I think it's a cute ending.

513
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:57.119
I do like it.

514
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:07.559
Like, it's great that, you know, throughout the trial, we've had so many zooms on the doctor's face, you know, constantly, constantly, and in episode 13, you know, you've got the, no, when he's going to the centre.

515
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:08.639
Oh, I hate, but here.

516
00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:09.960
Sorry, go on.

517
00:42:10.019 --> 00:42:11.940
But it still ends.

518
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:13.559
On the doctor's space.

519
00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:14.880
Yes, it's just a different face.

520
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:15.719
It's brilliant.

521
00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:17.519
The reason I hate that.

522
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.340
Is Colin's fat tongue?

523
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:21.420
Well, no, no.

524
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:22.139
That's fine.

525
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:24.659
Colin sells the danger well in that moment.

526
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:28.559
But you're just like, oh, for goodness sake, fortify yourself, man.

527
00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:31.980
You've had a train barrelling down on you in the Matrix and you didn't scream.

528
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:32.760
No.

529
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:35.639
You're just sinking, for God's sake.

530
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.800
And, you know, you've distributed your weight.

531
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:38.699
Don't struggle.

532
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:40.980
Certainly don't wiggle your butt into it the way you do.

533
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:43.679
You're not gonna sink if you remain calm.

534
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:46.320
If you just stand there screaming. when your spats get covered in mud.

535
00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:49.139
It's a mess, that scene. really poorly realised.

536
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.400
I think it's poorly directed.

537
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:56.940
Like, because Paul Colin has to collapse down and then you see him actually move one of those hands to grab his side.

538
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:05.400
Much like that creature in mind where, you know, where he has to move his hand to make it obvious with the gun, the URAC or whatever.

539
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:09.840
It's the same sort of thing where it's like it's the direction letting down what has to happen.

540
00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:10.380
Yeah.

541
00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:21.900
So, um, ratings wise with this, um, 4.400000 viewers tuned in to episode 13 and then 5.600000 for the final episode, coming 80th.

542
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.000
So the highest rating of the season is the last.

543
00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:30.659
And it's the only time that the show preceding Doctor Who, Roland Rattle, whatever it was, was actually in the top 100.

544
00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:31.679
Right?

545
00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:34.380
So the only time it gives it a bit of a boost.

546
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:47.880
But it is interesting that, you know, I think there is viewer fatigue after 12, 13 weeks that you suddenly go from 5.2 or 5.3, the end of vervoids, then there is like literally almost a 1000000 viewers less.

547
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:55.440
How are we promoting this, the final 2 episodes of the trial that people are going, well, we're still at another week, we can tune in next week, I guess, to see.

548
00:43:55.500 --> 00:44:04.559
And it's back to the whole argument that this whole concept of having one story just doesn't lend itself to having new people come in during the season.

549
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:08.519
And the one I described is that I think the ratings are soft, right?

550
00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:13.800
There's some episodes that are higher than five, but then you'll get one that does dip down to the mid fours.

551
00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:18.900
You can't just draw a line of best fit to say that the audience is actually increasing week to week.

552
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:26.219
The overall rating for the season is 4.8 million, right, which is 2200000 down from last season.

553
00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:31.440
Like next year, we're going back to what, you know, they said they're going to go do a traditional format this year.

554
00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:33.480
Next year, they're going back to individual stories.

555
00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:37.440
And what you get is you get 5.one coming in to see the new doctor.

556
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:40.739
Then there is a drop to 4.24.3.

557
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:43.320
And episode one of Power.

558
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:44.760
Power gets 4.5.

559
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:46.679
But episode 2 gets 5.2.

560
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:47.219
Right.

561
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:49.619
So people are going into work in school and talking about it.

562
00:44:49.679 --> 00:45:01.739
And then indulge in Banham, 5.3 for episode one for Dragonfire, 5.5, and all of our episodes from that 5.2 onwards are above 5000000 except for the last episode of the season.

563
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.760
If you draw a line of best fit, you can actually see this gradual increase.

564
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:07.679
It's a new story.

565
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:09.480
You can tune into a new story.

566
00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:10.619
It's not this.

567
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:11.699
Oh it's still going on business.

568
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:12.360
Yeah.

569
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:17.039
A big problem I have with this story and you've both just touched on it now.

570
00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:22.980
It feels very enclosed and private and claustrophobic.

571
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:26.460
You know, we do have guest cast.

572
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:29.219
But 2 of the 3 guest cast.

573
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:31.260
The mastering glitz are characters we've seen before.

574
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:33.239
And Popplewick is a cypher.

575
00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:35.699
He's not really a character for plot reasons.

576
00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:49.619
Whereas the previous 3 stories, there has really been an attempt, and I would argue some success in creating distinct identifiable worlds which these characters live in.

577
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:57.659
You know, we praised, for instance, the characterisation of Katrika and Humker and Tandril and even Murdine.

578
00:45:57.719 --> 00:45:59.579
You know, these were people we believed in.

579
00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:08.699
In mind warp, we spoke about Madame Katrona and Crozier and Frax, and how each time we watch it, we kind of come away with a bit more appreciation.

580
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:10.500
Sils in that, I mean...

581
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:11.039
Yeah, of course.

582
00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:14.460
And Lord Kiv as well, you know, dead worse than that.

583
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:14.880
Paul.

584
00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:26.820
In vervoids, you know, it's a mystery story, so we have to have people with readily identifiable character traits like the belligerent one and the mad one and the mercantile one and what have you.

585
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.619
But still, they're really well performed.

586
00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:35.820
And, you know, the Commodore and Lasky and Brookner and Kimba, you know, they're memorable, they're memorable characters.

587
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:42.900
We come to this and certainly they're a memorable visuals, but it just feels, it feels so insular.

588
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:47.579
It's the same problem I had with hell bent, which I really enjoyed.

589
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:51.900
But because, you know, we're on Gallifrey and all the characters we meet at people we've met before.

590
00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:55.800
You lose a bit of interest.

591
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:04.679
I still enjoy it, and I don't really fault it on that, but it's just like, this doesn't feel as much fun as the other ones because I'm not learning anything new.

592
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:12.780
And I guess we're split between a room that we're already thoroughly sick of and a location that isn't real.

593
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:13.679
Yeah.

594
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:17.519
So there's something inconsequential about it.

595
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:29.340
And if it had been a venue for all sorts of really thrilling political intrigue based on the trial, which is clearly what they're attempting to do, but failing to do, then perhaps they could have pulled it off.

596
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:42.420
But as it is, it's just a sort of fairly standard bunch of running around and being hypnotised and having harpoons shot at you and stuff, but nothing, nothing really actually happening.

597
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.840
And so I think it does fall to bits.

598
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.619
But, you know, overall, I really enjoy this.

599
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:50.460
I enjoy it.

600
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:53.400
Like, I mean, I give this 8 out of 10.

601
00:47:53.579 --> 00:48:15.360
Like, I mean, I mean, in that sense, insane despite, despite, you know, all these problems with the script and what it's doing and all this sort of stuff, I can sit there and I feel like at the end, there's a weight being lifted from this trial thing that's sitting there and, you know, you know, we aren't getting resolutions, I guess, you know, and we're not just sitting in a trial room for the 2 episodes.

602
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:18.300
But, you know, I've just given it 8 out of 10.

603
00:48:18.539 --> 00:48:21.840
So I kind of, you know, have made it my favourite story.

604
00:48:21.900 --> 00:48:27.300
But it's not really like it gets it because it's wrapping up everything else before it.

605
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:29.219
I don't know if I'm making much sense there.

606
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:30.119
No, no.

607
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.219
And in the end, for me, for the trial, the trial still comes back to being 7 out of 10.

608
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:39.119
Like, even even if my schoolers are above that.

609
00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:46.739
But the lightness that Colin brings into the role this year is something that I think that you, Nathan, have pointed out.

610
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:52.079
And there's just lots of things that I've really enjoyed within the stories, but then all this sort of trial stuff that's crap.

611
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.960
With some exceptions, I like the tone of this better than I like, the tone of season 22.

612
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:12.059
I think that they have learned some things, but I also think that we're still in a show where all these tunnels look the same to me and more so because Eric Sayard really doesn't know what he wants.

613
00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:15.059
Or John, Nathan Turner, really, either of them.

614
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:15.780
Yeah.

615
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:23.219
I do think that had John Nathan Turner had a different script editor or had Eric Saywood had a different producer.

616
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:27.239
In either situation, they each would have produced better work.

617
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:38.099
As much as I do believe the failings of the last 5 years of Doctor Who can mostly be ascribed to Eric Saywood.

618
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.739
I am not going to say that J and T is without fault for these flaws.

619
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:48.059
I think it's something that we can discuss perhaps in the retrospective because I've come to the same conclusion.

620
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:59.460
We've lampooned Eric Seywood, but there's underlying decisions that are made that have put him in this situation and they come from J and T. and other people in the BBC.

621
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.159
I have to agree with your scoring though, Todd.

622
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:04.500
I actually give this two-parters 9 out of 10.

623
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:06.000
And the whole trial.

624
00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:07.679
I give a 7 out of 10.

625
00:50:07.860 --> 00:50:12.599
I enjoy this in the same way you can enjoy earth shock in that, you know what?

626
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:14.579
It's great fun and it's fantastic.

627
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.320
Just don't try and think about it too hard.

628
00:50:16.380 --> 00:50:25.320
But there's 2 other cool bits that I have forgotten to mention earlier, I'm looking back over my tweets from our hashtag FTE trial marathon.

629
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:28.440
I will be doing this again for season 24 all in one day.

630
00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:38.519
There's the bit where the master mentioned summary execution and the rhubarb rhubarb of the time lords sitting around is they all turn to each other and whisper summary execution.

631
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:48.420
And there's also the bit where Glitz is holding Popplewick at gunpoint and the Dr. and Bella having a conversation and walk between them.

632
00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:52.199
And at 1st you might think, strategically wise, that's a really terrible move.

633
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:55.019
It's like, no, these 2 are bloody cooler than you.

634
00:50:55.079 --> 00:50:55.619
Shut up.

635
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:57.300
It's nice shot.

636
00:50:57.420 --> 00:50:58.980
It's a very nice shot.

637
00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:00.960
You know, I love these 2 together.

638
00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:04.920
I wish we'd gotten another year of them together, Colin and Bonnie.

639
00:51:04.980 --> 00:51:09.300
I think they get the chemistry so right, including in this.

640
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:14.219
There's that great scene where she runs up to him and has that horrible line you're not signing on as a martyr yet.

641
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:16.800
But it's kind of like opera.

642
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:24.539
Don't listen to the words, listen to the emotion and listen to them arguing the next second, like the doctor saying, I knew what was going on.

643
00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:31.260
You're never feeling the tension that you feel between Colin and Nicola as the doctor and Perry.

644
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:37.500
It is that kind of playful arguing sibling arguing that they were trying to go for.

645
00:51:37.739 --> 00:51:41.639
And I don't think it's the fault of the actors that it didn't work before.

646
00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:51.000
I think the emphasis was wrong and I think the emphasis has changed now and Colin and Bonnie play that perfectly and they're so visually striking together because he's huge and she's tiny.

647
00:51:51.059 --> 00:51:59.340
And I haven't even mentioned a fabulous outfit in this, all that blue wispy stuff for the blue high heeled boots, the patent leather boots.

648
00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:00.539
She looks amazing.

649
00:52:00.659 --> 00:52:06.179
You know, we used to complain about Nicola's character not dressing like a student.

650
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:13.679
Whereas Mel really dresses like someone in a crappy, light entertainment science fiction show, doesn't she, really?

651
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.179
I hate her hair in this actually.

652
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:15.780
Yeah, awful.

653
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:16.320
Awful.

654
00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:20.820
I think it's yeah, it's certainly my least favourite of all of her hair.

655
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.320
Why I'm concentrating on that.

656
00:52:22.380 --> 00:52:23.639
I'm still laughing about.

657
00:52:23.699 --> 00:52:25.019
Don't go through that door.

658
00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:30.539
Every time I watch that, that just cracks me up when she opens that and it has to be that big dinosaur guy.

659
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:32.460
Todd, shall we reenact it?

660
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:33.659
Now you be Colin, I'll be Bonnie.

661
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:36.780
Don't go through that. door.

662
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:40.199
It's such flop that, you know?

663
00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:41.940
Oh, I'm gonna give this nine.

664
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.460
And the season still gets a seven.

665
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.880
But what was needed was a nine, but you know.

666
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:50.280
So what's your score out of 10?

667
00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:51.119
I don't give a.

668
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:52.559
You don't give score if you just give us.

669
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:53.940
Yeah, no, it's tiresome.

670
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:56.760
Right.

671
00:52:56.820 --> 00:53:02.579
Speaking of tiresome things, it's time for Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice.

672
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:04.739
So I have one.

673
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:10.739
Um, I was speaking last night on chat to Stephen Busanovsky. friend of the podcast.

674
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:23.519
And I think we agreed that there's a creative choice here, which is not only puzzling, but actually catastrophic, and I think it is the decision to kill Perry at the end of Mind Warp.

675
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:35.760
And in Mind Warp, we said that we thought it was technically well done and that the whole kind of ominous, doom laden atmosphere of episode 4 of Mind Warp was really masterful.

676
00:53:35.820 --> 00:53:46.019
But killing a companion's a bad idea, I think, generally, I think you just get away with killing Adric because, you know, he's a jerk.

677
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:49.739
But also because he's part of an ensemble as well.

678
00:53:49.800 --> 00:54:20.219
But when you have the single character who we've been travelling with for a long time, who the doctor kind of sacrificed his life for, who is supposed to be, you know, an audience identification figure, I think that it comes from a place of a complete misunderstanding of what Doctor Who is, what its tone should be, what its audience is, what it's for, why it's lasted all this time.

679
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:29.219
You know, I think you can kill Tasha Yar in season one of Star Trek, the Next Generation, but you can't kill one of 2 regular characters.

680
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:51.059
And doing it in such a horrific way, a way where her body is taken over by a creepy old man, a way that just utterly reflects the way that she's been manhandled and mistreated and drooled over and lusted at and sexualised for her entire time on the show.

681
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:58.860
I think it's awful and probably one of the worst things ever to happen in the run of classic Doctor Who.

682
00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:05.280
The only comparable thing that I can think of that is just as appalling, just as terrible.

683
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:15.000
You know, something that should never, ever have made it to screen, is Amy Pond's baby turning into a big pile of sick in a good man goes to war.

684
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:17.820
I think that's horrific and indefensible.

685
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.400
And I think that this is similar.

686
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:22.199
It should never have happened.

687
00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:29.880
It's, say, we're trying to be edgy and adult. and failing and simply being cynical and nasty.

688
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:35.880
And it's my puzzling creative choice for the entire run of the classic series.

689
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.260
Wow, yeah.

690
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.039
My creative puzzing choice is the trial.

691
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:45.539
It is the fact that Eric thought it was a good idea.

692
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:47.579
John was sold on the idea.

693
00:55:47.699 --> 00:55:53.940
The powers that be up above, let it pass, but they're not supporting the show. they stopped caring.

694
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:54.900
They'd stop caring.

695
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:56.340
Like, they want it gone.

696
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:57.719
So, oh yes, go ahead with this.

697
00:55:57.780 --> 00:56:00.179
But the fact that they took it to the table.

698
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.219
Colin expressed concern.

699
00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:05.099
And you're not going to listen to your leading man.

700
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:11.159
The whole concept of the trial is just my credit puzzling choice.

701
00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:13.679
My puzzling creative choice.

702
00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:25.800
When Colin was going around during production for Mind Warp asking, am I really bad here or am I pretending or is the Matrix lying what's actually happening here?

703
00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:30.900
My puzzling creative choice there, I can forgive Ron Jones for not knowing the answer.

704
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:40.019
Directors of Doctor Who aren't there to change the story, as they might end a Hollywood film or in any film.

705
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:42.599
I can forgive Eric Saywood for not knowing.

706
00:56:42.659 --> 00:56:47.099
You know, the job of a script editor at this stage is not to impart meaning.

707
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:50.159
The job is to make sure the script is workable and can be filmed.

708
00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:54.360
My puzzling creative choices why Philip Martin couldn't answer that question.

709
00:56:54.420 --> 00:57:11.940
I actually think you're letting people off the hook, because I think the script is pretty clear on what's happening that, you know, he's initially zonked by the cliffhanger to episode one, but essentially what he eventually decides is the case, that the emphasis is being changed.

710
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:17.699
And the bit where he torments Perry on the rock is not what happened.

711
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:19.679
Like, I think that's clear from the script.

712
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:24.059
And I think it's Collins' job to read the script and understand it.

713
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:26.820
It's Eric's job to read the script and understand it.

714
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:31.380
And for God's sake, it's the director's job to read the script and understand it.

715
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:32.639
So he can put it on screen.

716
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:34.380
I think they're all culpable.

717
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:36.960
It is fairly clear what's meant to be happening.

718
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:44.579
Yeah, but I think the buck stops with Philip Martin because Colin asked Ron, who said, I don't know.

719
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:52.079
He asked Eric, who said, I don't know, and via Eric, he asked Philip Martin, who said, ask Eric and Ron.

720
00:57:52.139 --> 00:57:57.360
And at that point, I think the message from Ron was just, oh, play it how you think, darling.

721
00:57:57.420 --> 00:57:59.099
Well, I think he gets it wrong.

722
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:04.260
I also think too, maybe Philip Martin's annoyed by the changes that have happened to his group because of the trial.

723
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:06.840
Look, I don't I don't really know.

724
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:14.639
I mean, in one of the interviews, Con actually says that he asked Eric and he asked wrong, but he couldn't get in contact with.

725
00:58:14.699 --> 00:58:16.079
Oh okay.

726
00:58:16.139 --> 00:58:21.000
Which is a different take than what he says at other points in time. like the memory cheat.

727
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:23.099
So maybe he did speak to him, maybe he didn't.

728
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.219
But ultimately, the script goes through the script editor.

729
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:29.519
The script editor should be able to give some direction to the lead actor.

730
00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:30.239
Yeah, right?

731
00:58:30.300 --> 00:58:30.840
Yeah.

732
00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:32.639
And Colin's struggling with this.

733
00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:39.179
And I agree with you that the director should also be able to to an extent work it out as well.

734
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:42.000
And I think it is this time through, I found it clearer.

735
00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:44.760
Sorry, we seem to be dishing your creative puzzling choice.

736
00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:45.599
That's fine.

737
00:58:45.659 --> 00:58:53.460
I'm fine with that because it is a problem in that story is that different scenes are played different ways and it makes it and I've struggled with it for years.

738
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:54.119
Yeah.

739
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:56.940
Yeah, and, you know, I probably agree with you both.

740
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:58.440
I'm looking for one person to blame.

741
00:58:58.500 --> 00:58:59.760
But no, it's a team effort.

742
00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:01.980
You right. all 3 of them.

743
00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:05.760
Okay, pics of the week.

744
00:59:05.820 --> 00:59:07.139
I've got two.

745
00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:13.619
My 1st pick of the week is the novel Matrix by Robert Perry and Mike Tucker.

746
00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:21.840
Mike Tucker, of course, who was a special effects person on the last few years of classic Doctor Who and also new series Doctor Who.

747
00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:27.300
It's a 7th doctor novel dealing with uh, what happens to the Valiard?

748
00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:27.840
after the trial?

749
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:42.840
It is a fan wanky use of the concept of the valeyard, but it's also really well executed. and tries to explain who and what the Valiard is without kind of going into wrestle on imprimarches and that sort of thing.

750
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:45.539
It's an enjoyable novel of its own right.

751
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:53.219
The science fiction concepts are science fiction concepts, they're not just Doctor Who concepts, and it also plays with ideas of identity and memory.

752
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:54.300
So it's very good.

753
00:59:54.360 --> 01:00:06.119
My 2nd recommendation is the big Finnish audio parry and the Piscon paradox, which attempts to reconcile what we saw happen in Mindwarp.

754
01:00:06.179 --> 01:00:08.159
What we heard happened in the ultimate foe.

755
01:00:08.219 --> 01:00:13.559
What we read about in the mind warp novelisation and bad therapy.

756
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:18.599
And tries to give us some closure on Perry's departure.

757
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:21.059
It's a companion chronicle.

758
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:26.099
So it's mostly Nicola Bryant, but the special guest voice in it is Colin Baker.

759
01:00:26.460 --> 01:00:32.039
I won't spoil it too much, but the ending I found particularly emotionally affecting.

760
01:00:32.099 --> 01:00:37.199
Actually, the ending of both halves because it's kind of like 2 connected 2 partters.

761
01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:56.579
And especially the ending of the 1st half as narrated, not only narrated by Nicola, but as told by Perry, and you find out in the 2nd half, there's one kind of one important piece of information that Perry doesn't have when she's narrating that 1st half that really makes it resonate even more.

762
01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:59.219
So Perry and the Piscon paradox written by Nev Fountain.

763
01:00:59.940 --> 01:01:08.099
I think last season I recommended that people read Evelyn Wars, the loved one, which, if you haven't read it, you really should.

764
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:24.780
It's truly tremendous, the BBC has just come out with a three-part adaptation of Evelyn Waugh's 1st novel, Decline and Fall, written in 1928, and I've seen the 1st 2 episodes to date, and it's really, really terrifically funny.

765
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:27.599
Have you seen or heard the 1st 2 episodes?

766
01:01:27.659 --> 01:01:28.739
Did you say it was?

767
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:29.760
No, no, it's a TV show.

768
01:01:29.820 --> 01:01:30.659
Oh, I bet terrific.

769
01:01:30.659 --> 01:01:33.059
It stars Jack Whitehall as Paul Pennyfeather.

770
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:34.079
Oh, I love Jack Whitehall.

771
01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:43.619
It has the late Tim Pigott Smith in what must be one of his last roles because he only just died sort of fairly recently as we record.

772
01:01:43.739 --> 01:01:48.420
And he's in the opening scene and he's really sort of terrifically funny.

773
01:01:48.539 --> 01:01:52.559
It's brutal and horrible like all of Evelyn Moore's stuff.

774
01:01:52.679 --> 01:02:07.559
He's gleefully cruel to all of his characters, and it also features a fantastic Star Turn from the wonderful Eva Longoria, who you might remember from Desperate Housewives, and she's super, super glamorous in it.

775
01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:09.719
It's some laugh out loud, funny.

776
01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:11.219
I've really really been enjoying it.

777
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:25.980
And so if you want to break from cardboard sets and mazes and megabyte modems, there's no robots in this, there's no pteroreptils in it, even though it is said in 1928, it is really, really terrifically funny and I can recommend it wholeheartedly.

778
01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:28.320
I've got one.

779
01:02:28.380 --> 01:02:29.639
Do you know what I'm going to recommend?

780
01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:31.500
I recommend Beauty and the Beast.

781
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:35.880
It's a wonderful movie about a plucky American girl and her wrestler, Warlord.

782
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:41.519
No, we don't go with that.

783
01:02:41.579 --> 01:02:43.860
It's a pretty good recommendation, though.

784
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.980
It's even got a gay in it. like James Bree.

785
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:54.780
I recommend the new CW show Riverdale, because I think that's full of nice young things and lots of angst.

786
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.039
Everyone's very attractive.

787
01:02:56.760 --> 01:03:09.059
I'd recommend any big finish audio with Bonnie Langford and Colin Baker in it because I really do think they are that well written for that pair.

788
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:13.619
If I had to pick one, I'm not going to pick a pick one of those.

789
01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:14.880
I going to pick the Wiran aisle.

790
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:16.019
Oh, yes.

791
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:22.019
Which is which is a 6 doctor with the Wiran and his companion flip.

792
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:30.300
And I really enjoy that one and so, yeah, just for something different, one of the 6 doctors, alternative companions and I think it's a really good story.

793
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:33.420
It also uses the Weiran in an unexpected way.

794
01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:34.559
I found that.

795
01:03:34.619 --> 01:03:35.159
Yeah.

796
01:03:35.219 --> 01:03:38.159
That's by William Gallagher, who's written some very good big finish.

797
01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:09.000
Well, dear listener, we're not quite finished with the Colin Baker era yet.

798
01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:18.119
Do come back next week for a very special episode, and the week after that, we'll be having our big finished special, so you still have time to listen to the one doctor.

799
01:04:18.300 --> 01:04:20.519
Doctor Who and the Pirates.

800
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:28.139
Jubilee, and the brink of death from the Doctor Who, the Last Adventure box set.

801
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:30.539
All of those are available from bigfinish.com.

802
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:44.219
Don't forget, you can vote in our Tom Baker commentary, and the 4 options are, The hand of fear, The sun makers, The stones of blood, And the horns of Nimon.

803
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:50.159
You can find a link to the poll in the show notes and also at flightthroughentirety.sexy.

804
01:04:50.219 --> 01:04:51.960
Over on Bondfinger.

805
01:04:52.019 --> 01:05:15.119
We have recently said goodbye to Timothy Dalton after only just having said hello to him in license to kill, and we also have commentaries for all the Roger Moore films and Sean Connery films, and unlike that lawsuit, because there's a lawsuit at the moment, because the 50th anniversary Bond set says it has every Bond movie, but it doesn't have Casino Royale 67 or never say never again.

806
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:17.219
Well, we do.

807
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:18.900
So you don't have to sue us.

808
01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:22.380
So there, isn't that wonderful?

809
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:38.039
Until then, you can find our websites, flightthroughentirety.sexyandbondfinger.com. bondfinger.com as well has a secret address at the moment and we're not going to tell you what it is, but it's a word that Nathan invented during our living daylights commentary.

810
01:05:38.099 --> 01:05:47.639
So if you type in that word.com, you will be redirected to Bondfinger, you can find us on Twitter at @bondfingercast and at FTE podcast and over on Facebook.

811
01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:52.019
Just search for Flight through Entirety, our Bondfinger, same as iTunes.

812
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:56.280
Until next week, may your matrix get a bit more maintenance than once a millennia.

813
01:05:56.340 --> 01:05:57.480
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

814
01:05:57.539 --> 01:05:58.139
Good night.

815
01:05:58.260 --> 01:05:59.099
See you soon.

816
01:06:00.300 --> 01:06:05.219
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd BLB, Nathan Bodley, and Brandon Jones.

817
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:07.260
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

818
01:06:07.320 --> 01:06:12.119
This episode, Gallifrey and Duck and Cover, was recorded on the 15th of April 2017.

819
01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:15.300
The next episode will be released on the 28th of May.

820
01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:27.719
Now that we've discussed the entire Colin Baker era on television, we'll be travelling back in time to return Todd to the 30th of December 2014, so he can record his 1st ever appearance on the podcast.

821
01:06:27.780 --> 01:06:29.699
See you soon, Todd.

822
01:06:30.539 --> 01:06:32.159
Um...

823
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:34.619
And today is...

824
01:06:34.619 --> 01:06:38.820
Boobidiboo of April. 15th.

825
01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:39.900
April.

826
01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:41.340
April Diggity.

827
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:43.199
I'm gonna turn off all of my things.

828
01:06:43.260 --> 01:06:52.679
I failed hullabaloo. editing the episode 107 and I interrupt your thing with my watch to tell me to drink water.

829
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:58.320
Okay.

830
01:06:59.699 --> 01:07:04.199
Oh, Todd, just hold your microphone at a bit more of an angle.

831
01:07:04.260 --> 01:07:05.639
I was getting breath, that's all.

832
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:09.179
We do get a bit of Todd breath from time to time.

833
01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:10.800
It gives us life.

834
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:12.599
Okay.

835
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:13.260
Okay.

836
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:13.860
Is that better?

837
01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:14.760
That's better, thank you.

838
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:15.719
Okay, I'll just remember.

839
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:19.079
Oh my god, Todd's breathing through his nose.

840
01:07:19.139 --> 01:07:20.460
He's angry.

841
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:22.320
Not only.

842
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:22.860
Not yet.

843
01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:23.760
Not yet.

844
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:25.800
I want to be angry.

845
01:07:25.860 --> 01:07:26.400
I wanna be happy.

846
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:27.000
Can I be happy?

847
01:07:27.059 --> 01:07:27.900
Okay.