WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:13:34

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through

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Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast pressed onto two plastic discs for

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your listening pleasure.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Richard.

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And today we are having a whistle stop tour through the big finish

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range, focussing on the adventures produced with Colin Baker as

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the doctor, and the 1st story we're going to be looking at is

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Jubilee.

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Well, this is yours, isn't it, Nathan?

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Yeah, I chose this one.

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Without actually having heard it before, it was really just on the

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reputation of Rob Shearman, who wrote Dalek, and who was kind of

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asked to somehow adapt Jubilee for the screen or to use elements

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of Jubilee for the TV program, and in particular, it's the

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incredible, I think, Cliffhanger, who episode one of the audio

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that he virtually reproduces years later with Christopher

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Eccleston, which is the reveal that the prisoner in the Tower is

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in fact, a single Dalek who's been chained up and tortured for

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decades.

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And so this shares a lot, I think, with Dalek.

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But nevertheless, the kind of setting is extremely different.

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And I think so is the message.

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I remember, um, years ago when Rob Sherman was at a Huvention, he

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was talking about the writing process for adapting garlic, and he

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said the 1st draft was very much like Jubilee.

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And then in the 2nd draft, I changed it slightly so that the owner

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of the dialect wanted to make the Dalek sing happy birthday for

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his wife.

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And yeah, then it became very different on television.

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But this is, it's an amazing piece of satire, I find.

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Jubilee.

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It's a beautiful piece like all of Robbie Schumann's work.

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Have you seen his books?

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There are some of his short stories you can get through big finish

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as well, or at least, you know, via the website, you'll find

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them.

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I've downloaded those and I've been reading those as well.

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He's got a really acerbic, cynical, Charlie Brooker kind of feel.

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It's the closest Doctor Who's got to Black Mirror, if you've

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watched any of those.

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Yeah, so it's really beautifully done. sort of a near future.

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In this case, it's an alternative future, we have a British Empire

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again, to whom the, to which the Americans kowtow with hilarious

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results, and indeed every other nation, and a president and his

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wife.

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But not the queen.

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Anyway, they're in a fantastic couple.

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You can see they're definitely sending up.

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There's so much in this.

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The underlying structures behind power and why power is never

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actually something to be sought or why capitalism confines it.

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Humans themes are vast and really nicely contained.

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It's extraordinary.

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He shoves that much into one little disc.

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So the titular Jubilee is the commemoration of a 100 years since

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the doctor defeated the dialects.

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Correct.

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And that gives rise to this.

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It's actually worse than a British Empire. an English empire.

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That's right, it is an English empire.

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With all of the racism, you know, and colonialism that that

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implies and doing this podcast while we're in the throes of Brexit

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just makes it resonate even further, actually.

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You said, we're, you see, you're meant to have said, we are.

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Sorry, I'm doing contraction. which are not allowed under the

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English empire.

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Nathan, had you listened to many audios before?

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No, I have to admit that it's not a medium that I like very much

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usually because all of my listening kind of happens when I'm

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walking the dog in the morning and I don't really want to pay much

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attention to a narrative.

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So I mostly listen to just old episodes of Flight through Entirety

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actually.

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Every morning.

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There is no plot, I assure you.

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So coming to this, as somebody who hasn't listened to the 6th

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doctor on audio, what did you think of the interpretation of the

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doctor and Collins performance?

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So Colin, I think, is really quite different from what we've seen

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before.

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And I think I've mentioned in previous episodes, because this

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isn't the 1st episode we've recorded since I've listened to

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Jubilee, I think he benefits enormously from being up against

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Evelyn Smythe, who is a really, really great character.

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It took me a little while to warm to her.

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I think she's a little bit staging, a sort of very talky initial

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scene at the beginning of this story, but she settles down.

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She's really good and she just can't be bullied by the 6th doctor

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and the 6th doctor isn't mean to her.

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And this is clearly set at a time after the 6 doctor has kind of

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settled down and stopped being quite so obnoxious.

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And so you get to see Colin at his best when he's being funny.

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You know, he's almost immediately wrong about things.

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You know, the TARDIS suffers this malfunction, which causes the

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entire problem.

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And, you know, he dismisses it and gets it wrong.

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And I think that he really benefits from that and she's a really

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great character and a sort of shame that it would literally be

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impossible to conceive of her as a companion on television.

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Did that put you off listening to this or like initially, did you

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find it hard to break into that having never listened to any of

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her introductory stories?

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Yeah, I had never heard her before, but because Jubilee has such a

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reputation.

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You know, I was kind of happy to give it a listen.

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And I was hugely impressed by it.

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There are some really great performances, and I think this is

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Martin Jarvis's best work. isn't it great?

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Yeah, we need to cite Jarvis.

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Yeah, so he's president of England.

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Yeah, President Rochester and his real life wife, Rosalind Ayres

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is Miriam Rochester.

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So they're a real couple.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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And doesn't it show?

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I imagine. they had a lot of fun.

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Yes, you putrescent ugly cat bags.

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I really am fantastically ugly.

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Yes, you are.

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I think Shiman is also riffing a bit on Mindwarp as well because

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Rochester at one point takes the doctor aside and says to him, no

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don't you realise everyone in the city's undermined control?

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I'm not really like this.

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I'm having to play along.

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And then that whole thing comes around full circle. like no, he

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really is insane.

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But the lie he tells himself is that he's not insane.

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I think there's a lot of Tony and Cherie in this as well.

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Of course, because this was getting towards the end of Tony and

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Cherie. very true.

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At that moment that I'd forgotten about because I had heard this

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before.

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I re-listen to it for the podcast.

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The bit I'd forgotten about when they're flying about in the Dalek

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solar disc, the bit where Rochester says, oh, no, this, you know

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all this rubble and damage isn't from the Daleks.

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This is from us.

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I'm like, oh, wow, you know, yeah, that's that's really quite

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biting for now.

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Yeah, well, in Sandra's review, take a drink.

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He compares the fact that Rochester is spending money on the

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Jubilee instead of providing housing.

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He compares that to the Olympic Games, of course, in 2012, where

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we have people on 0 hour contracts preparing for the games, money

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being spent on the games, the whole of London being militarised

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with missiles placed on the top of tower blocks and things like

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that.

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And the fact that this whole thing is a celebration of sort of

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English imperialism, at the expense of the actual well-being of

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the English people, and Rochester actually says they would much

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prefer a big street party, though I'd much prefer a jubilee to

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adequate housing.

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And so there's something obviously about that sort of

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neoliberalism thing and just the idea of using history and

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patriotism in order to get people to ignore their own welfare

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essentially.

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And so we do get these giant crowds. the end, the whole thing

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culminates, doesn't it, of the Jubilee, which is this massive

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giant celebration of English nationalism.

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It's very prescient for now, isn't it?

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You could feel as if it was just made to shear or last year.

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And June the 8th, well, no. how close it is.

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Yes.

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Did you find yourself comparing it to the episode on television

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like trying to find similarities all the way through or did you

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forget about that once you got into the story and that sort of

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thing?

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I pretty much think that after episode 2 where we really get to

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see the Dalek and the doctor interact, there isn't actually much

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in common between this and the actual story Dalek?

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Because you've got less time in Dalek and because the job of Dalek

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is to reintroduce the Daleks to a completely new audience.

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And so Dalek is fairly simple.

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It is just a dalek escaping a base and killing a whole bunch of

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people.

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Whereas here, it kind of relies on the fact that we know who the

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Daleks are.

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It also relies on in terms of Evelyn.

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This is about Evelyn's, I don't know, 7th or 8th story.

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She's already met the Daleks in her timeline.

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So she still takes on the role that Rose would later take on of

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saying, you know, this is a creature in pain, but she doesn't have

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the naivety Rose has.

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I'm not using naivety in the pejorative sense.

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Rose literally doesn't know what the Daleks are capable of, whereas

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Evelyn does, but at the same time she distinguishes that, hold on

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this Dalek is very different to other Daleks, and she even pulls

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the doctor up on it far more strictly than Rose does.

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She says to the doctor, in that case, I cannot see the difference

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between you.

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Yeah, yeah, it's the you would make a good Dalek line from Dalek.

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And in fact, that dalek does become a character and Nick Briggs

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does just an incredible job.

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Like, he really is a superb choice for the new series and for Big

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Finish, as someone who does these monster voices, because I think

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they introduce Davros in the 70s and keep him going in the 80s

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because, generally speaking, the Daleks are sort of fairly boring

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conversationalists.

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But here, he's given a real character and all of that stuff about

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needing orders and stuff, I guess, stays in in Dalek.

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You know, he's been abandoned, he's got no sort of purpose.

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And I guess we discover through his complete lack of purpose that

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in a sense, the Daleks don't make any sense as a threat because

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they define themselves against the other.

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Their whole purpose is to destroy everyone else.

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And so once they've done that, the only thing that they can do is

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invent another within their own ranks and fight against each other

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until there's literally only one left.

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And what's the point of that?

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And I guess that that is supposed to be a commentary on the humans

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themselves.

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I mean, the doctor tells this story about this sort of warlike

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race of people who fight until everyone's sort of eliminated, and

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he's giving that as a big speech at the Jubilee, and we're all

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supposed to think he means the Daleks, but he doesn't.

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He means the English Empire.

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He means the human race.

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Speaking of that, Ross, with all the lines in the beginning about

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the prisoner in the wheelchair in the tower.

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Now you hadn't heard this before.

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I did actually know this though.

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I had been spoiled.

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So that is another doctor, the doctor from 1903, who had gone back

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in time and he'd been captured and horribly mutilated and stuffed

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in the tower for 100 years.

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And Colin gets to do some proper acting.

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You know, he's not normally called upon to be anything other than

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himself sort of slightly louder.

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And I think he's really good there.

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But I think that's one of the strengths of big finish and

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certainly their vision and Gary Russell is that they wanted to

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regenerate this doctor in the eyes of fandom and really change the

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character or give common, you know, different things to do to show

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what he could do, which, as we've discussed, you know, behind the

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scenes stuff on the show, just never really gave him that

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opportunity fully.

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Well, I think this is the best Colin story that I've seen or

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heard.

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I think it's certainly better than anything that made it to

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television.

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It's much more complicated and much more interesting.

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00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.240
While still being sort of camp and silly and funny.

248
00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:32.159
But funny in a way that's increasingly unpleasant, you know, and

249
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.179
difficult to tolerate.

250
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:34.200
Yes.

251
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.419
Well, the poor little people in the Daleks, especially the one

252
00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:37.799
from America who doesn't fit.

253
00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:40.259
Yeah, so what he saws his arm off or something.

254
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:40.740
Yeah.

255
00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.179
So he fits in the dalek.

256
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.659
Like all of that stuff is gross and black comedy, but it's black

257
00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:49.620
comedy that's actually done well as opposed to the sort of black

258
00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:56.399
comedy that Seward does, which is kind of not very sophisticated.

259
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:57.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

260
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.320
I mean, that's the thing, because especially when Rochester does

261
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.740
cut off that guy's hand, his immediate reactions doctor is, just

262
00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:07.259
saying, no, remember, I'm not actually evil.

263
00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.500
I'm just pretending, the doctor's like, no, you just chopped off

264
00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:11.279
someone's head.

265
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:12.000
That's evil.

266
00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:14.220
You keep that in mind, Nathan.

267
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:15.179
Yeah, sorry.

268
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:19.080
I won't do it again Something I love about that old doctor in the

269
00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:24.240
wheelchair scene is Colin has that rare talent in an actor where

270
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.059
you know, you've got the whole storytelling thing of show don't

271
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:27.899
tell.

272
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:32.159
But in about 30 seconds, the doctor tells us what he suffered in

273
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:33.059
the last 100 years.

274
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.360
And I think the most affecting part is when he talks about how

275
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.600
Evelyn died, his version of evil and died.

276
00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:44.100
And he just has that line of I had your bones to talk to, but then

277
00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:44.879
they took them away.

278
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:48.360
And, you know, it's like one of those things of, you know, write a

279
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.360
sad story in 10 words kind of thing.

280
00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:56.340
But it's just the way that he says it, not exactly without emotion

281
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:57.840
but without an extreme of emotion.

282
00:14:57.899 --> 00:14:59.340
You know, he's all cried out.

283
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.279
He's not gone insane, but he's just like, he's done.

284
00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:03.179
He's just done.

285
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:04.139
He's resigned to it.

286
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.200
And then his scene with the Dalek at his dare.

287
00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:11.100
I mean, I can just imagine Colin going, hey, I get to die as the

288
00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:14.700
doctor and keep going all in the one script.

289
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.159
We all love a good death scene. dear listener.

290
00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:21.179
We just recorded our time incorporated, and I think Nathan and

291
00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:23.580
Todd had the most amount of fun when I told them they had to

292
00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:26.700
grapple in the time vent and scream at each other.

293
00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.480
Yeah, no, we've already arranged a date to reenact that. much like

294
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:31.740
this podcast, indeed.

295
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.820
There's a lots of cod Shakespeare in this too, which is also

296
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.279
something that Rodri Schimman does really nicely.

297
00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:42.779
So, you know, they are, as Cherie and Tony were, the current Lord

298
00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:44.039
and Lady Macbeth.

299
00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:45.059
Yes exactly.

300
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.080
Well, and she's sort of fabulously scheming too, Miriam is really

301
00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:50.039
really terrifically good.

302
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:53.519
Is Miriam our favourite big finish, naughty girl?

303
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:54.840
I think she might be one of them.

304
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:56.759
She is really terrific.

305
00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:00.059
So there's even that very opening scene and it's not entirely

306
00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:00.960
clear what's going on.

307
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:05.759
But they're playing naughty sort of games with each other and

308
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.259
contracting their words.

309
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.600
So they're saying isn't mustn't to each other.

310
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:12.659
And Rochester slaps her.

311
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:16.980
Then we discover that she's actually plotting against him and we

312
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:19.320
think, you know, the slaps. absolutely fantastic.

313
00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:23.700
Yeah, and but the reason is, no, she's even more evil than him.

314
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.539
Yeah, yeah, because she doesn't believe that she's doing this

315
00:16:27.539 --> 00:16:31.200
because she has to hide the fact that she's a good person.

316
00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:32.940
No, she's like, no, we want revolution.

317
00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:36.360
Well, in fact, the slab, which is meant to be a signifier that

318
00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.820
Rochester's evil and that she isn't.

319
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.139
Her actual objection is that the slap wasn't hard enough and that

320
00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:44.519
he never once broke her skin.

321
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.360
And this is a world where women are sort of subjugated and

322
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.620
relegated to 2nd class status and where foreigners aren't allowed

323
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:55.320
into the country and once you leave the country, you're not

324
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:55.919
allowed back.

325
00:16:55.980 --> 00:17:00.600
And, you know, it's really, it's a really, really gruesome

326
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:01.559
dystopia.

327
00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:06.240
And it's kind of funny that the doctor doesn't kind of remark upon

328
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.299
it initially and it's not entirely clear how it's arisen.

329
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.019
And so for a while, we think that this is what the world is like.

330
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:17.940
And apparently, Schumann had wanted big finish to actually leave

331
00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:21.960
this world in place and maybe go back and revisit it.

332
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:26.759
And I've read a comment on Santa's blog by him where he actually

333
00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:30.779
says that he thinks that episode 4 is a bit talky and doesn't

334
00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:31.319
quite work.

335
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:36.299
And that's partly because Big Finish wouldn't let him keep this as

336
00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:40.259
the status quo and everything had to sort of revert back to normal

337
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:40.920
at the end.

338
00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:45.599
So it is really kind of dark and I really, really like the

339
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.680
alternative creepy, horrific world that it creates. alternative

340
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.279
anymore, is it?

341
00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:52.980
Well, I think that that's the point of alternative worlds, isn't

342
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:53.160
it?

343
00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:55.980
You know, a lot of science fiction set in the future is actually

344
00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:57.299
just set in the present day.

345
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.440
British asset. specialised on in that since before the war.

346
00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:03.599
And it's not just Orwell and Huxley.

347
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:04.920
We've had so many of them doing this.

348
00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:06.720
All the great writers have looked at it.

349
00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:07.500
We're just getting closer.

350
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.640
Well, in fact, there's an adaptation on American television at the

351
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.559
moment of Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's tab.

352
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:15.599
I was just thinking of Handmaid's Total when we were talking about

353
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:16.019
Miriam.

354
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:16.980
Yeah, it's very close.

355
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.420
Well, that's about the present.

356
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.200
You know, that's not about a speculative future. about how women

357
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:22.920
are treated now.

358
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:27.720
And I think this sort of strain of English fascism has sort of

359
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.859
been present in Britain for, you know, decades and decades.

360
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.519
And so the doctor's done something that really unleashes it here.

361
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:43.559
So from an alternative present to a rather distorted version of

362
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:45.660
the past, it's Doctor Who and the Pirates.

363
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.359
Was this your choice, Brendan?

364
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:18.119
This was my choice, and why did you choose this one?

365
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.119
Apart from being able to go...

366
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.220
Um, there's a few reasons I chose this one.

367
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.259
One of them, of course, is Billy...

368
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.700
Bill Ody is the... playing Bill Ody.

369
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:33.480
But also, you know, Bill Oddie, famous for being in the goodies

370
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.839
comedian, you don't expect him to play a villain and he's funny

371
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.059
and chilly in this story.

372
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.420
It bookends nicely with the previous story, doesn't it?

373
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:47.099
Because you're not quite sure which side the villains are and then

374
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:48.660
are they as, ooh, they are.

375
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.079
Ooh.

376
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:54.299
Oh, I also enjoy the story because it works on a few levels.

377
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.119
So the story starts with evil and visiting one of her old students

378
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.240
who is quite upset about something.

379
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:03.779
So Evelyn starts telling her the story of when she and the doctor

380
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:04.619
met some pirates.

381
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.140
She's rescued her from the chip vat, hasn't she?

382
00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.880
Down in the uni canteen.

383
00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:09.839
That's right, yes.

384
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.299
Yeah, it is a bit Bill, isn't it?

385
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:14.579
Yeah, and so starts telling her the story.

386
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:17.460
And Sally, this girl who...

387
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.900
It's Helen playing the part again.

388
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.619
Helen Goldwin.

389
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.700
She's so good, yeah.

390
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.640
And for a moment I thought, oh, is this Sally who later turns up

391
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.920
as a companion to the 7th doctor, but no, it isn't.

392
00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:28.259
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

393
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.019
So Evelyn's telling the story.

394
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.839
And the great thing is all the way through part one, Sally's

395
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.599
breaking in with, hold on. no that doesn't make any sense.

396
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:41.759
I think in the story, like Evelyn Gibbs, Bilotti's character, 2

397
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:43.259
peg legs and hooks for hands.

398
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.779
And it's kind of like, well, how does he walk?

399
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:49.500
How did he draw a sword, you know, and she complains that all of

400
00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.039
the pirate tropes are actually sort of historically inaccurate.

401
00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:55.920
Yeah, and all the pirates are called Bill Billson and John Johnson

402
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.960
and they all, but they all sound the same.

403
00:20:58.019 --> 00:20:59.279
You've already done that.

404
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.039
Remind me, who wrote this one again?

405
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:06.420
This one was written by Jacqueline Rayner, who also created Evelyn

406
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:10.140
and she Jack Rayner does a fantastic job with historical.

407
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.400
She's great with sci-fi as well.

408
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:12.720
She's got a good blog too.

409
00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:16.680
And she also writes wrote that page in Doctor Who magazine for

410
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:17.099
ages.

411
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:21.720
Yeah, about introducing her children, Doctor Who, which is so

412
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.359
lovely and heartwalling and you get you get things in there like

413
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.779
they're watching time flight or time lash and really loving it and

414
00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:29.519
enjoying it, you know, that sort of thing.

415
00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:35.099
So we have a level of artifice in this story because it's evil and

416
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.079
elated the doctor telling Sally.

417
00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:40.380
This story about meeting up with pirates.

418
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.660
It's funny too, isn't it?

419
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:47.160
Because the whole thing is a very definite short story kind of

420
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:47.819
premise.

421
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:52.680
You know, it's the evening, the doctor and and Evelyn turn up to

422
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.180
tell a story to Sally and they resolve something in Sally's life

423
00:21:57.180 --> 00:21:57.900
by doing it.

424
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.799
And it's not entirely clear that the pirate story is going to

425
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:03.660
matter or indeed go anywhere.

426
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.500
But that story really develops and becomes engaging.

427
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.940
At the end of episode one.

428
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.599
I think at one point in episode one, there's some throwaway line

429
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.480
from someone suggesting that the story actually doesn't matter or

430
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.000
there isn't really a proper story or anything like that.

431
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:23.700
And I found myself a little bit irritated by the inset story while

432
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:28.079
still enjoying the framing story, but that inset story actually

433
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.240
becomes quite compelling, I think.

434
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:31.440
Yeah, yeah.

435
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:33.000
It does become compelling.

436
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.299
And again, it kind of becomes compelling almost entirely because

437
00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:37.920
of Maggie Stables as Evelyn.

438
00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:42.660
You know, the doctor's companions are always the human touch and

439
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:47.279
identifying the human emotion, and Evelyn is so incredibly human.

440
00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:51.240
You know, she tries to stop the pirates fighting by giving them

441
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.500
all a piece of dairy milk.

442
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:55.380
Only she could do that.

443
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:56.160
Exactly.

444
00:22:56.220 --> 00:22:58.980
And she's like one for you and one for you and one for you.

445
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:02.460
But then Red Jasper jumps across to a pirate who's contradicted

446
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:04.920
him just before that and rips out his tongue anyway.

447
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:10.440
You know, we have this combination of Evelyn's great humanity and

448
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.640
jolly hockey sticks kind of attitude, counterpointed with this

449
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:20.400
extreme and possibly historically accurate violence and punishment

450
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.119
and torture.

451
00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:24.539
And we also get the sense that we're not sure where the story ends

452
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:28.559
and the truth begins and not to preempt, but at the end, it seems

453
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.660
that all of these things were in part way true.

454
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.099
Yeah, absolutely.

455
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:37.380
And yeah, as the story goes on, we discovered that something has

456
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:40.079
happened in Sally's life and she's been responsible for someone's

457
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:44.039
death, which is why Evelyn has come to see her and Evelyn starts

458
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:49.140
to imply that she knows what that's like and she's like, no, sorry

459
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:50.700
look, I can't tell any more of this story.

460
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.779
And so the doctor says, I think you need cheering up and says, how

461
00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:56.279
about a musical?

462
00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.559
The cliffhanger team. going to sing.

463
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:00.480
That's the cliffhang of the episode too.

464
00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:05.160
And it is it is Colin going, oh, and the cliffhanger cuts in.

465
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:08.039
And the weird thing is with the music and I don't know if it just

466
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:12.000
takes some getting used to, but at the beginning, the musical is

467
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.019
just bloody horrible.

468
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:18.000
It is Colin very cleverly, Segigo, a rewrite of, I am a very model

469
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.140
of a modern major general.

470
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.500
Well, in fact, most of the songs are taken from Pirates of

471
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:23.700
Penzance, but there is also...

472
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:24.960
There's a bit of pinafore in there as well.

473
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:27.839
Because they had been talking about Gilbert and Sullivan

474
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:29.519
beforehand in the plot.

475
00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:32.940
But the songs, I think, become very good.

476
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.079
There's one occasion where Sally starts singing in the present day

477
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.079
which is a ballad and that intertwines with the stuff from the

478
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:40.799
pirate ship.

479
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:44.339
In fact, I think that that's terrifically clever because the only

480
00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:48.000
reason the pirates are singing is because Evelyn and the doctor

481
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.680
are telling the story in that way.

482
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.160
But suddenly in the real world, in the framing story.

483
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:56.039
She starts to sing to express her emotions as well.

484
00:24:56.099 --> 00:25:00.539
So that artifice leaks into the framing story, which I think is

485
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:01.619
terrifically clever.

486
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:05.819
And that's really where we discover that what Evelyn wants to do

487
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:12.359
is actually try and persuade Sally not to kill herself in remorse

488
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:15.240
at the death that she's caused.

489
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:18.180
And one of the ways she does that is, of course, showing that

490
00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:22.799
she's in the same position, but is still managing to live on

491
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.099
despite her own loss and her own feelings of guilt and

492
00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:26.700
responsibility.

493
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:27.660
Yeah.

494
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:30.480
I think it's one of the things I really like about these audios is

495
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:35.220
that it allows original series actors and their doctors to

496
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.460
actually be able to be put into a more modern day context and be

497
00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:43.980
given these really heavier plots or, you know, stopping her

498
00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:46.740
killing herself is something that we see on television today.

499
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:50.579
Whereas back in, you know, 1986 or whatever, these things weren't

500
00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:51.839
really explored with any complexity.

501
00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:54.660
That's one of the things that I like in these audios that you can

502
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:59.400
actually go there with the cast and see how it all develops.

503
00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:00.539
Yeah, absolutely.

504
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.559
And as you say, there's some real modern kind of storytelling

505
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:04.799
here.

506
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:09.839
Not only with kind of the 4th wall breaking, but particularly when

507
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:16.559
Jasper starts to kill Jem, the character who's sort of become

508
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:18.299
Evelyn's companion during this.

509
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.880
He the cabin boy of the ship that the pirates rob, and he's

510
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.400
resourceful and plucky and charming and sweet.

511
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:23.819
Exactly.

512
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:29.819
And unwittingly, he knows where the treasure Jasper is looking for

513
00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:32.160
is, but he doesn't know that he knows.

514
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:34.559
So when Jasper's asking for information, he can't tell.

515
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:36.660
And that's when Evelyn says, look, I can't tell any more of this.

516
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.339
And when we see Evelyn again, it's already too late and we get a

517
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:44.339
beautiful scene between her and Colin, where there's hardly even

518
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.160
any words, it's just the sounds the actors are making.

519
00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:52.799
And it's shortly before then that instead of poking holes in the

520
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:53.160
story.

521
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:55.799
Whenever we cut back to Sally, she's saying, but what about this?

522
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:56.700
And what about that?

523
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:58.920
You know, she's like a five-year-old kid wanting more

524
00:26:58.920 --> 00:26:59.339
information.

525
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:04.980
And it kind of proves where Eric Sayward was on a bit of a false

526
00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:07.380
premise in this era of the show, where he's talking about, you

527
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.680
know, in order for violence to be effective, you must, you know

528
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.339
you must show the blood.

529
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:12.839
And it's like, not really.

530
00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:16.500
You know, the violence there is effective, not because we don't

531
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:16.980
show the blood.

532
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.920
It's because we show the human reaction afterwards.

533
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:25.980
And not only that, it's also not a gratuitous death because Evelyn

534
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:27.420
is able to...

535
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.799
I hate to use the word use, but Evelyn is able to show the other

536
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.559
pirates and sailors, look, this is what's happened to Jen.

537
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:36.119
This is what it will happen to all of you.

538
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:37.920
This guy doesn't care about you.

539
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:39.420
We're giving you a chance to escape.

540
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.859
So he doesn't die in vain in a way because all those other lives

541
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:46.079
are saved, which is a very modern Doctor Who thing as well.

542
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.500
But it's not just those lives that are saved, but Sally's life

543
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:50.579
that's saved as well.

544
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.460
It's that death that enables her to connect with Sally and really

545
00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:54.299
reach her.

546
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.799
And I think that's really good.

547
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:58.259
You know, there's, there are superficial things about the big

548
00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:01.380
finish audios, like the 4 episode structure and all of that sort

549
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:06.720
of thing, which just makes it seem like they're there for sort of

550
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:10.559
fanboys to kind of slot chronologically into their appropriate

551
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:11.099
spots.

552
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:16.019
But here I think it uses that episode structure and really kind of

553
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:17.400
subverts it.

554
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:19.859
It does something that Doctor Who could never, ever, possibly have

555
00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:23.339
done during Holland Baker's era or indeed during the entire

556
00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:24.240
classic series.

557
00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:28.980
Yeah, and I love how it takes, you know, we've always said, and

558
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:32.160
fans always say, the 3rd episode is run around, get captured and

559
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.359
talk in lots of corridors.

560
00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:35.940
So it kind of goes, right, if the plot never advances in episode 3

561
00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:39.299
anyway, We'll make that into a musical where, you know, the doctor

562
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:41.940
drinks a sailor under the table and throws him overboard.

563
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.599
Yeah, it's just the plot doesn't really go anywhere in that

564
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:45.960
episode.

565
00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:47.099
But hey, who cares?

566
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:52.619
It's using an otherwise useless part of the story in an

567
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:53.279
interesting way.

568
00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:58.319
Yeah, and then we get the beautiful ending where the thing is, evil

569
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.660
and doesn't kind of say to Sally, this is what I think you should

570
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:00.960
do.

571
00:29:01.019 --> 00:29:03.720
Evelyn just says, look, that's the end of the story.

572
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.960
I don't know if it helped and maybe it was the wrong story to

573
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:07.319
tell.

574
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:08.759
But by then it's morning.

575
00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:11.759
And I think it's really very sweet.

576
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.799
This is a historical story.

577
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:18.000
I think that really benefits from not having any pteroreptils in

578
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.180
it.

579
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:22.200
That's a first.

580
00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:27.660
Well, after all, that sadness and death, I think it's time to pop

581
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:31.259
down to the great plaza of Generios for a party in the one

582
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:31.619
doctor.

583
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:14.759
I approach this a bit differently from everybody else.

584
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.720
In terms of, although we've been talking about go and listen to

585
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.480
these things, I kind of think that some of our listeners won't

586
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.299
because they're not into audio.

587
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.640
They might only like Doctor Who on screen.

588
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.519
They're very busy people too, I think, Todd generally.

589
00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:31.319
That's right.

590
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:34.079
And very attractive people, which has to be said.

591
00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:35.880
So fun at parties.

592
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.700
So I just want to say, I'm not a big fan of Doctor Who in other

593
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:41.880
mediums other than what we see on the screen.

594
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:43.380
I'm not into the books.

595
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:45.839
I find after a while with reading the books when they start

596
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.039
introducing you characters.

597
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.319
I lose interest because I can't visualise them.

598
00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:51.359
They're not real people that I've seen on screen.

599
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:54.119
I'm not into comics, so that means nothing to me.

600
00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:57.059
And so I like the Doctor 2 movies.

601
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.660
They a bit of fun.

602
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:00.839
But when it comes to audio, I guess, you know, we've got missing

603
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.680
episodes of Doctor Who, which we can only now hear on audio.

604
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:08.220
So for this, I thought, well, I wanted to try and appeal to

605
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:12.480
perhaps those of you out there who don't particularly like other

606
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:16.319
mediums, but might be prepared to listen to the actual original

607
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:17.519
stars of the show.

608
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.240
And so when I chose this, I basically said, well, I'm not going to

609
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.519
choose Evelyn, who I really love and think is fantastic.

610
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:26.819
So the choice was either Perry or Mel.

611
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:31.859
And of course, Perry has got so many audios with not only the 6

612
00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:34.680
doctor, but the 5th doctor, so I thought, well, I'm going to go

613
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:35.220
with Mel.

614
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.819
Now, if you've been listening to the podcast, you know that I'm

615
00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:42.599
not a huge fan of Mel, and I do prefer her with the 6th doctor

616
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:43.799
over the 7th doctor.

617
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:49.200
So when coming to this, I think in deciding to do the one doctor, I

618
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.079
thought, well, let's have a look at the entire range, and I

619
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:55.079
decided that I wanted to actually go with the very 1st one that

620
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:56.819
they've recorded together, right?

621
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.059
And this is fairly early on in the big finish range.

622
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.779
Bonnie's only done one before this, the fires of Vulcan with

623
00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:06.000
Sylvester, which is, I think, number 12 in the range.

624
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:09.299
This the one doctor is number 27.

625
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:10.619
So it's still very early on.

626
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:15.059
I personally think that big finish are fairly variable in their

627
00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:16.380
1st 50 to 60 titles.

628
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:20.400
But the titles that actually do work are actually all the

629
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:20.880
Collins.

630
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:24.119
Later on now, I think they work really well with all the doctors

631
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.779
and have really honed the companions and the doctors and getting

632
00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:28.559
strips that work.

633
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:32.579
But at this point in time, for me, like 90% of the colon or the 6

634
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:34.619
doctor scripts work.

635
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:36.779
So anyone I don't particularly warm to is probably, I think, the

636
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:39.539
1st one, which is the whispers of terror with Perry.

637
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.579
So anyway, so I decided to go with Mel.

638
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:45.660
Now, for me to choose Mel, I think does say something about the

639
00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:46.619
big finish audios.

640
00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:51.299
I don't buy all the audios anymore, and really, for me, the

641
00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:53.880
pinnacle of the audios are the 6 doctor and Eve.

642
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:57.240
The only other ones that I will always buy.

643
00:32:57.299 --> 00:33:00.539
Are the 6 Dr. Mel or the 7th Dr. Mel.

644
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:01.259
Wow.

645
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:05.579
And what's the one and of course, the common factor there is Mel.

646
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:10.079
And I just think Bonnie Langford is absolutely brilliant in the

647
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:10.619
audios.

648
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.019
Not only her performance.

649
00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:16.200
But like the rehabilitation they've done at the 6th doctor, they

650
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.259
finish do the same thing here with Mel.

651
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.559
Bonnie's allowed to use her own intelligence in the part and

652
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.319
actually, and therefore flesh out a character that really wasn't

653
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:29.220
much more than a daisy duck without the bustle.

654
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.200
Yeah, no, it was just getting Bonnie in.

655
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:33.539
That is a costume, Brendan. looking at you.

656
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:35.579
Yeah.

657
00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:37.920
But you see, this chronologically is the 1st one that she does

658
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.299
with the 6th doctor.

659
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.339
It's a damn good one too.

660
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:43.019
I agree.

661
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.839
And I think one of the things here is that they actually allow

662
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.740
light and shade. when he gives it light and shade.

663
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:51.359
She's still plucky.

664
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.660
I've actually just watched Time and the Rani, and one of the

665
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:58.740
biggest problems is that Mel screams and is given just terrible

666
00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:00.599
dialogue that Bonnie has to contend with.

667
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:03.839
And I actually now appreciate what she's trying to do. in that

668
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:04.259
performance.

669
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.420
And here, she's given much better dialogue.

670
00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:08.820
And the character can actually make fun of herself.

671
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:11.280
And that's one of the strengths, I think of this one doctor story

672
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:14.280
is that if you've been listening to the range so far, you would

673
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.219
already be in the mode of the new 6 doctor, right?

674
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.139
So you already know what he's going to be like.

675
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.539
But here with Mel, it's sort of like, well, is she going to be

676
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:22.320
like she is on screen?

677
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:26.400
One of the things I just enjoys the fact that she can be earnest

678
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.159
and forthright and, you know, is going to succeed.

679
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:32.340
But at the same time, she can rid the doctor, the doctor can rib

680
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:34.559
her, she can make fun of herself, and that's throughout this

681
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:35.280
entire script.

682
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:39.719
Now, this script is by Clayton Hickman and Gareth Roberts.

683
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:44.460
And Gareth, of course, has written a number of stories on screen

684
00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:49.440
such as The Shakespeare code, the lodger, closing time, Unicorn

685
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:49.980
and the Wasp.

686
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.440
And there's a lot of comedy in those.

687
00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:54.119
And I like comedy in Doctor Who.

688
00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:56.820
And this is like their Christmas special.

689
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:00.780
It's also fairly early on in the range in that all the doctors are

690
00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:04.440
still using the pert we Tom Baker theme in their 4 episode

691
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:05.699
format.

692
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.340
They haven't done all the individual titles.

693
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:13.079
So if you're listening to this for the 1st time, you'll get what

694
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:18.179
you think is the wrong title sequence, but just... didn't have the

695
00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:18.780
rights at that time.

696
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.300
But just listen for...

697
00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:22.079
I think it's episode three.

698
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:23.460
And that's all.

699
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:25.139
It's a carnival, isn't it?

700
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:25.619
wonderful.

701
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:27.420
That's all I say.

702
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.760
Okay, so that's why I chose this.

703
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:32.760
I mean, that's very long winded, but, you know, I wanted, I

704
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:34.380
absolutely adore Bonnie Langford.

705
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:39.599
So the story, the doctor and his companion, Sally Ann, have just

706
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:43.739
defeated the evil Skeloids on the planet of Generios, and they

707
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:48.179
couldn't possibly take payment, you know, for their services, but

708
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.019
they are going to.

709
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:55.320
Then the real doctor and Mel turn up and are suitably outraged by

710
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.139
Mel is certainly by this situation.

711
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:02.400
And uh, it gets more competitive because then some actual aliens

712
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.780
do turn up and want to, you know, destroy the 17 planets of

713
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:08.460
Generius or whatever it happens to be.

714
00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:13.619
And this is where I think it gets really funny, is that I can just

715
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:19.860
imagine Gareth and Clayton, much like perhaps Nathan and Richard

716
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:24.840
having a few drinks one night and then deciding to get more and

717
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:29.099
more outrageous and then coming up with a way to sort of poke fun

718
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:31.980
at the show, but also refer back to things that they really do

719
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:33.719
like in terms of the show.

720
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:36.719
So they have to go on a quest. right?

721
00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.519
A bit like the key to time, right?

722
00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:39.539
To do a few different activities.

723
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.239
I actually think it's more like it's more like the keys of

724
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:42.780
mariners.

725
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.639
Oh, yes, actually, you're right.

726
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.280
With a nod to Douglas Adams.

727
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:51.420
But what's really wonderful is the fact that this fake doctor

728
00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:54.900
played wonderfully by Christopher Biggins, right, takes an instant

729
00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:59.099
shrine to Mel, like in a, yeah, in a way that, you know, Mel's got

730
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:01.199
to sort of, she likes him, but she's got to vend off his

731
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:01.619
advances.

732
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:02.400
It's very funny.

733
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.679
The doctor can't stand him, so there's this friction.

734
00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:09.719
Likewise, Sally Ann finds the 6 doctors so attractive and, you

735
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:13.320
know, wants to get her on with him, much to the annoyance of Mel

736
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:13.800
right?

737
00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:16.500
So this is just wonderful interplay between all of these

738
00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:18.119
characters, like the opposites.

739
00:37:18.179 --> 00:37:20.760
And then they've got to go off on their little separate missions.

740
00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.980
And it's just, I just find it delicious.

741
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:26.159
I have to say that I think that the beginning part is stronger

742
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.239
than the rest of it.

743
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:32.099
And the best thing is, of course, the take that Christopher

744
00:37:32.099 --> 00:37:34.500
Biggins's character who's called Banto, I think.

745
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:35.519
Banto Zane.

746
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:39.119
Yeah, and Sally Ann have, you know, and when the president of

747
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:42.539
Generios leaves the room, they start cracking open beers and kind

748
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:45.840
of snogging and stuff like that and all sorts of things that the

749
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.219
doctor and Mel would never do.

750
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:51.539
And all of that's really funny because you've got Colin Baker

751
00:37:51.539 --> 00:37:54.179
who's a large sort of bombastic performance.

752
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.960
And then you've got Christopher Biggins, who is, of course, TV's

753
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:03.300
Nero from Claudius, and he's sort of famously Anto.

754
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:05.400
Yeah, yeah, huge Enpanto.

755
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:10.860
And so you've got 2 characters, both Mel and Colin Baker's doctor

756
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.880
are big.

757
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.360
And so Christopher Biggins and Sally Ann.

758
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.340
But after that, I do think it gets a little bit tiresome because

759
00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:26.880
they do head off and their quest involves some fairly kind of some

760
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.559
fairly kind of generic satire.

761
00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:29.280
Do you know what I mean?

762
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.539
Like IKEA furniture.

763
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:32.940
Gosh, is an IKEA furniture hard to assemble?

764
00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:35.039
Let's make a cliffhanger about that.

765
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:39.659
Yeah, or when you're waiting for a delivery, you get given this

766
00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:43.860
like 4 hour time window and the moment you nip out for a sliced

767
00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:45.599
loaf, that's when they come and deliver.

768
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:50.099
And those are sort of fairly well-worn kind of observations.

769
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:53.340
And they're sort of charmingly done and there's some wonderful

770
00:38:53.340 --> 00:38:57.960
sort of fun performances, but the things themselves are just a

771
00:38:57.960 --> 00:38:59.579
little bit kind of predictable.

772
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.360
Yeah, I do think, though, that just sort of gives more strength to

773
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:04.139
the performances.

774
00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:07.500
Like, um, spoiler alert, the IKEA furniture bit, that's something

775
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.800
Mel and Banto have to do, the fake doctor played by Biggins.

776
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:14.760
And there's a bit where Banto wants to give up and Mel gives this

777
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.179
really stirring speech about how she never gives up on anything

778
00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:20.280
and she tells a story about her childhood.

779
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:24.000
And I won't spoil it, but there's a bit at the end of that, that

780
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.039
it takes a turn.

781
00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:30.179
You just don't expect from Mel and it's just really, really

782
00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:30.599
funny.

783
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:33.719
Similarly, the doctor and Sally Ann, like you said, Todd, she

784
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:37.380
can't keep her hands off him and the doctor's just a mixture of

785
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:39.360
annoyed and confused by this.

786
00:39:39.420 --> 00:39:41.699
Like what on earth is going on, but again, that's something that

787
00:39:41.699 --> 00:39:44.760
pays off at the end of the story, again, in a way I won't

788
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:45.000
explain.

789
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:49.739
See, I like, I really like the whole IKEA furniture thing with the

790
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:54.719
dissemblers, because the dissembler, they remind me of the stones

791
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:58.980
of blood and the Megara, the justice machines and like, you know

792
00:39:58.980 --> 00:40:03.599
Mel and Banto are, you know, up against it with this IKEA

793
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:06.539
furniture and their their instructions and they're going to be

794
00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:09.059
dissembled if they spoil alert, don't finish it.

795
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:11.880
But she's also having to fend off his advances at the same time.

796
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:13.679
I just keep laughing and laughing.

797
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:17.699
And their solution to that problem is actually genius.

798
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:18.780
It is genius.

799
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:21.179
This was recorded, I think, in 2001.

800
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:22.199
So it's 16 years ago.

801
00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:23.400
This is before the new series.

802
00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:28.559
And so the doctor and Sally Anne have stumbled upon this quiz show

803
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:29.820
which is sort of like the weakest link.

804
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

805
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:32.340
And it's got this super brain.

806
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.840
Mentos is the super brain.

807
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:35.579
Yes, it's plain toss. sometimes.

808
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.219
But I kind of think, well, okay, so they're sending up not only

809
00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:41.820
the weakest link, but also their super brain is sort of like Aurak

810
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:43.860
from Blake 7.

811
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.739
And of course, you know, the whole thing with the 6 doctor

812
00:40:46.739 --> 00:40:49.139
thinking, you know, he's going to get it right, but of course, he

813
00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:49.980
doesn't.

814
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:52.980
And, you know, Collins sort of the sort of fumbling around and

815
00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:54.239
sort of the embarrassment at that.

816
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.360
But then giving Sally Anne the opportunity to actually solve that

817
00:40:57.360 --> 00:40:57.719
problem.

818
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:59.579
Is I just...

819
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:00.420
One Essex way.

820
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:03.360
Do you love the name check of Sally Anne as well?

821
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:07.619
Do you remember the math show in the mid 70s that some of us were

822
00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:08.280
forced to watch?

823
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.940
It is on YouTube, and there's the phonus, and there's some bloke

824
00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:17.099
in a sort of really roony-oed version of, what's his name, who

825
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:19.920
does all the Dead Ringers audio?

826
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:24.780
Yes, a really many times a roonyoed version of John Colshaw, as

827
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:25.199
Tom.

828
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:28.860
And he's a companion is Sally Ann with the little bobbles in her

829
00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:32.039
hair and being just as plucky and annoying as we loved it.

830
00:41:32.099 --> 00:41:35.280
It was so exciting to see Pastasia Doctor Who in school in the

831
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:36.119
70s.

832
00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:39.000
But now they've done her as an Essex character, and she's really

833
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:41.400
nicely foreshadows the character of Rose.

834
00:41:41.460 --> 00:41:45.119
I do agree with you, Nathan, that I think the last segment with

835
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:47.699
the Jelloid is the weakest of the three.

836
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.500
And you know who's the Jelloid is.

837
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:53.880
The geloid is Matt Lucas, who, of course, plays Nadol in the

838
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:55.559
current series of Doctor Who.

839
00:41:55.619 --> 00:42:00.300
He's also the voice, I think, of the actual aliens that are going

840
00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:00.840
to destroy the system.

841
00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:02.400
It's a great voice too.

842
00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:05.820
And that Jelloid character is really funny and terribly sweet.

843
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:10.019
It reminds me of, um, there's a Futurama episode where they go to

844
00:42:10.019 --> 00:42:11.159
planet that's all sand.

845
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.539
Yeah, the creature from the pig.

846
00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:16.260
And I think fry drinks, like there's a glass and drinks the king

847
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:17.519
whereas this is sort of in reverse.

848
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:21.119
Like, so it is, I do find that quite funny, but I do think it does

849
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:22.440
run out of steam in that sense.

850
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:26.820
I just think for people out there who perhaps aren't into audio

851
00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:29.340
and not even necessarily into Mel.

852
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.760
I think this is a really good example of how the characters can be

853
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.039
regenerated or rehabilitated.

854
00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:39.119
And if you like a bit of offbeat humour like I do, then it's not

855
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.599
too heavy and you can, and if you're willing to go with it sending

856
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:45.780
up things, but in a fun way, I think, you know, it's a great

857
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:49.139
enjoyable hour of your time or hour and a half of your time.

858
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:55.079
Now, before we go on to our last story, Todd is going to leave us

859
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:59.280
because we're discussing a story called The Brink of Death, which

860
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:03.480
is part of a 4 story box set called The Last Adventure, which has

861
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:07.500
4 adventures featuring Collins Doctor, the last one of which is

862
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:12.659
the Brink of Death, which finally, with Colin in the role and

863
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:15.900
performing it, shows the events leading up to his regeneration.

864
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.320
Now, Todd, last time we were talking recording, you actually told

865
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.320
me why you didn't want to stick around for this one and I thought

866
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:23.699
it was a really lovely thing to say.

867
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.900
So would you mind telling the listeners?

868
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.019
I don't want to actually listen to this until such time.

869
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:32.880
And so such time when we can't record any more stories with this

870
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:33.239
doctor.

871
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:36.119
If people understand what I'm saying there.

872
00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:39.900
There will come a time when Big Finish won't be able to have the

873
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:41.400
previous doctors working.

874
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:43.980
So I actually want to leave this until that time.

875
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.460
Like, this is the end of that, and that will be the end for me.

876
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:50.219
I listen to everything else, but I'm just, at the moment, I'm just

877
00:43:50.219 --> 00:43:54.420
decided that I'm just going to wait, you know, another 15 years

878
00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:58.619
before I actually, you know, listen to it.

879
00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:22.739
So, Todd has stepped out, and we're going to discuss the brink of

880
00:44:22.739 --> 00:44:23.880
death, which...

881
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:25.139
I think we should talk about him, actually.

882
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:27.659
Well, that's really what this episode is actually all about.

883
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:28.500
It's Todd.

884
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:29.400
That's right.

885
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:34.619
I get where Todd's coming from and I kind of like to put them in

886
00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:35.460
order of listening.

887
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:36.780
I just have to throw this in.

888
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.099
I know I've said it before, probably.

889
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:44.340
Audio is my prime favourite way of experiencing Doctor Who, and it

890
00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:47.760
came about through the missing episodes of the Hartnell and

891
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:52.500
Troutens, which I love more than watching them on television, even

892
00:44:52.500 --> 00:44:53.579
the rediscovered ones.

893
00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:57.480
Webber fears a lot more exciting when you don't know what it looks

894
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:01.500
like or how when it drags, you've just got the musical cues.

895
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.340
Doctor Who works best in a dreamlike state, like a lot of good

896
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:08.940
cinema, there's that suspension when you're in the dark room and

897
00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:11.400
you're, there isn't any other interference.

898
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:14.639
I just think it's a purer way of presenting the narrative.

899
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:18.000
I think this really takes advantage of the medium as well.

900
00:45:18.059 --> 00:45:19.019
Really does.

901
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:20.519
It's a great little piece.

902
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:22.739
They're 4 little set pieces.

903
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:26.699
They need to be heard all together, as we were saying, Brink of

904
00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:28.800
Death is just the final of the four.

905
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:32.400
We get back all the surviving companions, extraordinary that even

906
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:35.940
in the audio period that makes it really salient, what Todd's

907
00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:36.119
saying.

908
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:37.559
We've lost Maggie Stables.

909
00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:39.360
So of course she doesn't get a chance to do this.

910
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:45.719
We have the fantastic Miranda raisin with 2 L's and no wine.

911
00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:49.559
You know, it was Tallula in Daleks in Manhattan, who's now the new

912
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:50.039
companion.

913
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.679
And that's who we thought, I 1st thought, well, we should go with

914
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.099
her because she's just so fun and she's a Bletchley Park girl and

915
00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:56.460
all the rest.

916
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:57.480
So we get to meet her.

917
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:01.139
We get some lovely moments and some clever things and I want, if

918
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:03.360
you haven't, I don't know, it's hard to talk about something in

919
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:05.159
case the listener hasn't listened to it.

920
00:46:05.219 --> 00:46:06.119
So we'll just assume you have.

921
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.420
Yeah, I think now, I think, you know, this episode is going to go

922
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:10.440
out with a spoiler warning.

923
00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:11.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

924
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.360
They all should.

925
00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:13.500
But I really recommend.

926
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:16.679
I, as I said to you, I couldn't do the wrap-up thing because I

927
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:19.320
hadn't been able to get through Collins era and I couldn't in the

928
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:20.880
80s and I really can't now.

929
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:22.980
But I love him in the audios.

930
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:27.179
And so for me, this doctor exists in the audios, much more than he

931
00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:28.019
does on TV.

932
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:33.179
I think the advantage of this particular story, the brink of death

933
00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:39.420
is that instead of trying to be a four-part traditional Doctor Who

934
00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:43.440
story, it frees itself up by just being an hour long.

935
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:47.639
And a lot of it isn't set in any kind of real place.

936
00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:50.940
I think it is very, very clever.

937
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:53.940
Set in Sapphire and Steelland for the 1st episode, isn't it?

938
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:54.900
Very much so.

939
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:55.380
Oh, yeah.

940
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.960
But we didn't want to talk about the other stories, do we?

941
00:46:58.019 --> 00:46:58.800
We should talk about this one.

942
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.300
Quick rundown of the other stories.

943
00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:03.239
The 1st one with Miranda Raison is Constance Clark, as you said, is

944
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:06.539
the end of the line, which is set in a sort of weird netherworld

945
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:07.440
railway station.

946
00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:11.159
The 2nd episode, the red house is on a planet of werewolves with

947
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:14.760
India Fisher as Charlie Pollard, and the 3rd episode stage fright

948
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.639
features Jago and Lightfoot.

949
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.219
And the audio companion flip.

950
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:20.880
Yes.

951
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:26.219
But linking all 4 stories is...

952
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:27.599
Yes, so the Valley Yard appears.

953
00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:28.500
Our own Nathan.

954
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.360
Well, I say all four.

955
00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:33.840
The Valiard appears in he's sort of pressaged in the 1st three and

956
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:34.920
then it appears in the last three.

957
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:36.239
So it doesn't appear in the first.

958
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:39.900
Michael Jason is so fabulous in this too, listening to him again.

959
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:44.760
Have you ever heard him on BBC 4 reading Rogue Male Jeffrey

960
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:46.500
Household thriller?

961
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:52.079
Written before, Hitler came to prominence, but about a single X

962
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:54.480
Soldiers game to assassinate Hitler?

963
00:47:54.539 --> 00:47:58.139
And it's so true of people who've lived in the trenches and

964
00:47:58.139 --> 00:48:01.860
because this man spends most of his time literally in a burrow in

965
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:05.219
this novel and chased and is just, anyway, everything he brings to

966
00:48:05.219 --> 00:48:06.059
it is fantastic.

967
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:09.840
So, of course, it just works so much better in this one.

968
00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:14.219
There's a really clever ways that they play with the threat of

969
00:48:14.219 --> 00:48:18.059
losing tenure of losing life and it almost happens and then it

970
00:48:18.059 --> 00:48:18.659
almost happens.

971
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.539
And then Colin just deals with it in the most beautiful way that

972
00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:22.500
the doctor should do.

973
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.980
And it's a very current series way of you give up your life for a

974
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:26.219
friend.

975
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:31.019
It explains the opening of time in the Rani, which you would have

976
00:48:31.019 --> 00:48:33.420
assumed would be inexplicable beautifully.

977
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.880
It really does a very good job of that, I think.

978
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:36.960
It's really nice.

979
00:48:37.019 --> 00:48:37.860
It's satisfying.

980
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.059
It also gives Colin something really interesting to do because

981
00:48:42.059 --> 00:48:46.199
what happens at the very beginning is, you know, the Valiard and

982
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.320
the doctor change places kind of inexplicably.

983
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:54.119
And for a 2nd it's hard to work out what's going on, whether we

984
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:58.019
hear Michael Jason's voice so that we know that it's the Valiard

985
00:48:58.019 --> 00:49:03.059
because it's audio, but Mel is seeing the 6th doctor, but it does

986
00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:06.659
actually turn out that they've swapped places and now thinks that

987
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:07.800
Jason is the doctor.

988
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:09.059
And it's a doctor.

989
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:09.539
Exactly.

990
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:12.000
It works beautifully in audio and couldn't work in any other

991
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:12.360
medium.

992
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:14.699
And also, you get this exciting here.

993
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.159
What were the value I'd have been like, had he been able to have a

994
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:22.019
life outside trial and be, of course, he's wonderful and much more

995
00:49:22.019 --> 00:49:23.820
horrid than the master could have ever managed.

996
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:24.840
Yeah, yeah.

997
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:28.440
And I love Jason and Bonnie together.

998
00:49:28.500 --> 00:49:29.400
Yes, they're great.

999
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:32.940
Because the weird thing is, Bonnie Asmel is still sort of bright

1000
00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:34.199
and bubbly and what have you.

1001
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:37.079
And Michael Jason. his line's on paper.

1002
00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:40.679
He's been quite charming and what not, but just the way he

1003
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.639
delivers them behind every line is, I'm going to kick you out of

1004
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:48.239
the 1st airlock combined with no one else around.

1005
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:49.860
Miss Bush.

1006
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.380
Yeah, it's nice he keeps calling her my dear.

1007
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:54.719
Okay, kind of old-fashioned doctor.

1008
00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:59.760
But in the meantime, Colin is like this weird, you know, for...

1009
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.039
His shadow of his former self.

1010
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:04.619
In fact, it's the hiatus colin, isn't it?

1011
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.559
I'm just trapped in this non-reality on hold.

1012
00:50:07.619 --> 00:50:10.079
I might not even exist or you won't, actually.

1013
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:10.860
You've got 6 minutes.

1014
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.380
Yeah, and that's that's why it's called the brink of death.

1015
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.480
You know he's constantly just a moment away from death.

1016
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:18.900
And we have a lovely new Scousey companion, don't we?

1017
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:19.800
wonderful, isn't she?

1018
00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:20.340
Janesta.

1019
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:25.320
She's a uh, a time-lord technician or a galifrain technician who

1020
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:27.539
spent some time like in Birmingham or something.

1021
00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:29.820
And she's really, really funny.

1022
00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:33.000
And the doctor doesn't have to explain to her any of his earth

1023
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:34.380
idioms or anything like that.

1024
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:36.360
Rodan all the time, wasn't she?

1025
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:40.559
Not the chompy monster, but the other chompy monster for invasion

1026
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:40.800
of time.

1027
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:43.739
And if you're familiar with Big Finish, you kind of know that this

1028
00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:46.079
situation could lead to her becoming a companion.

1029
00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:49.500
So when spoiler alert, she's revealed to have either been taken

1030
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:52.860
over by the valiard or to have been the valiard all the time.

1031
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.719
It quite affecting. awful.

1032
00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:57.900
What I find really strange is something we've criticised the

1033
00:50:57.900 --> 00:51:03.000
Davison and Colin Baker era a lot for is, you know, whenever they

1034
00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:05.280
want the villain to get a bit further ahead in the plot, they just

1035
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:06.659
lock the doctor in a room for a while.

1036
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:07.380
Yes.

1037
00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:11.820
It's like Nick Briggs has said, right, well, you know, I'm writing

1038
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:14.579
for a particular era and that's something that happens in this

1039
00:51:14.579 --> 00:51:15.000
era.

1040
00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:16.559
How can I make it interesting?

1041
00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:21.179
And he makes it interesting by still giving the doctor a

1042
00:51:21.179 --> 00:51:24.840
difficulty to overcome, which is in convincing Janesta to help him

1043
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:30.420
when he has so little time and then concocting a plan, despite the

1044
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:33.179
fact he can't physically influence the universe using what's at

1045
00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:33.900
his disposal.

1046
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:38.639
And it really emphasises the best part of Collin's interpretation

1047
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:41.760
of the character, which is the doctor's mind, his intelligence and

1048
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.900
his vocabulary.

1049
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.079
So it's like, let's just give him those things and see him work

1050
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:46.920
his way out of it.

1051
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:51.719
I think Briggs also does something that this era of the program

1052
00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:54.000
does that I don't like quite so much.

1053
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:57.719
And I guess it is kind of slightly unavoidable given who the

1054
00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:00.420
Valiard is and what the conception of his character is.

1055
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.559
And that is that the resolution all becomes about the matrix and

1056
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:09.719
symbiotic nuclei and all of those kinds of time, laudy

1057
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:10.860
horrible...

1058
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:13.980
Well, and you know, the Valiard has given an explanation, which is

1059
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:15.059
pretty...

1060
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:15.900
I like the explanation.

1061
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:17.460
No, I like that he has a reason.

1062
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:19.500
He's not a midi-chlorian. not that bad.

1063
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.059
No, it is pretty bad, though.

1064
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:21.840
I liked it.

1065
00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:25.079
Because that wasn't one of the most unsatisfying things for me

1066
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.659
this era of Doctor Who and why I didn't watch much of it.

1067
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:29.099
It just none of it made sense.

1068
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:32.039
It's all a bit too time-lordy, I think.

1069
00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:33.239
And yeah, I know.

1070
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:36.539
If you're going to do it, do it in this story, but I've already

1071
00:52:36.539 --> 00:52:39.239
said that I really hate the Time Lords, and I'm glad Russell

1072
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:39.900
killed them all.

1073
00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:44.280
And so, you know, I don't think you can have an audio where it

1074
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.159
isn't all word peril from beginning to end, can you?

1075
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:50.280
Because it's an audio, but it is very word parole.

1076
00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:55.079
You see, I quite like the whole thing of, you know, it's the

1077
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:58.440
Matrix and it wrestle on imprimatches and that sort of thing

1078
00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:03.599
because it retroactively creates a story arc for the era that ties

1079
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.260
together season 22, 23 and the audios.

1080
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:11.699
I agree with you that it's continuity heavy, but big finish for

1081
00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:15.239
the last, they're coming up on 20 years, producing Doctor Who

1082
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:15.599
plays.

1083
00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:21.900
They have sought to redress that failing in the colon era of too

1084
00:53:21.900 --> 00:53:23.400
much reliance on continuity.

1085
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:26.579
And I think this is an effort by them to say, okay, we're

1086
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:29.400
honouring what we did, but at the same time, we're not ignoring

1087
00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:31.380
what happened on TV.

1088
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.300
So it's like, how can we smush those together?

1089
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:37.199
And also, it's a matter of the only people who are really

1090
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:41.519
interested in, oh yeah, but how did the 6 doctor regenerate, are

1091
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:44.940
people who are going to know what a megabyte modem is and a

1092
00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:47.460
particle disseminator and a time vent?

1093
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:50.699
It's okay to include all those.

1094
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.400
Bloody time vent. gets you every time, doesn't it?

1095
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:55.320
Oh, we prime the bolts, you know.

1096
00:53:55.440 --> 00:54:00.239
So it does do one thing which I do think is amazing where it does

1097
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:01.199
turn.

1098
00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:05.400
Colin just accidentally hitting his head on the console and

1099
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:12.000
falling over into the doctor sacrificing his life to save the

1100
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:15.300
entirety of the universe and the time lords and everything.

1101
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:17.760
By giving the console a Liverpool case.

1102
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:18.659
Yeah, yeah.

1103
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:20.760
Yeah. that is really terrific.

1104
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:24.780
And I think I think it was a brave idea to have, you know, the

1105
00:54:24.780 --> 00:54:28.739
last half of the audio, have the 6 doctor played by Sylvester

1106
00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:29.519
McCoy in a wig.

1107
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:32.760
Spoilers.

1108
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:37.079
You got a lovely little moment there with Silver, don't you?

1109
00:54:37.139 --> 00:54:38.340
I love this story.

1110
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:40.619
Thank you, Brent, because Brennan was saying, no, you need to get

1111
00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:41.159
this one.

1112
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:42.239
This is really good.

1113
00:54:42.300 --> 00:54:43.679
The last adventure is worth it.

1114
00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:47.280
And since he said that to me, I've actually been buying all of

1115
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:48.900
them and I've been enjoying all of them.

1116
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:49.980
Yeah, yeah.

1117
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:54.119
I think when, and this is just a comment on the range in general.

1118
00:54:54.179 --> 00:54:58.380
When Nicholas Briggs took over as executive producer, there was a

1119
00:54:58.380 --> 00:55:02.280
run of maybe one or 2 years when things weren't bad, but there

1120
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:03.059
were no real standouts.

1121
00:55:03.179 --> 00:55:03.960
That's correct.

1122
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:07.079
There was none of the Baroque silliness that you were getting with

1123
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:09.659
say, some of the stories we've discussed earlier, Todd's one

1124
00:55:09.659 --> 00:55:12.239
doctor, is a really great example, but we haven't had anything of

1125
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:13.440
the level of Jubilee.

1126
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:17.340
Yeah. or Holy Terror or what is the parts?

1127
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:18.960
Bare parts is extraordinary.

1128
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:21.360
But it's also that those riders have now gone on to bigger

1129
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:21.719
things.

1130
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:22.500
Yeah.

1131
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.920
Whereas now they have been getting new writers in off the back of

1132
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.480
things like the Lost Stories range.

1133
00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:29.699
And yeah, there's a lot more of variety now.

1134
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:31.500
There is, there's so much.

1135
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:34.440
In fact, it's really hard to keep up and it's expensive, but it is

1136
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:34.739
worth it.

1137
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:39.119
But yeah, I mean, really, there's any point you can jump in on

1138
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:42.420
even, even that early sort of Briggs period, it's still good and

1139
00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:44.039
it's good.

1140
00:55:44.099 --> 00:55:46.139
And, you know, that's when they started, that's when they got

1141
00:55:46.139 --> 00:55:46.980
Janet Fielding back.

1142
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:48.059
Oh, yes.

1143
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:49.260
In fact, what a coup.

1144
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:49.860
And our Tom.

1145
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:51.179
Yeah, yeah.

1146
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:52.619
Whoever thought that he would come back.

1147
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:56.460
Yeah, and whoever thought that he'd be recording with Lala Ward

1148
00:55:56.460 --> 00:56:02.039
although they squeeze Tom into that old perspex octahedron that

1149
00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:05.820
they had to squeegee Billy out of, don't they, for when he's

1150
00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:06.719
recording with Lala?

1151
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:08.039
not actually allowed to leave it.

1152
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:09.659
Todd had been using that.

1153
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:10.980
I hope they cleaned it first.

1154
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:15.659
And he's back in the room?

1155
00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:17.400
I am here listeners.

1156
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:56.280
Well, look, uh, Colin has recorded over 60 plays for next finish

1157
00:56:56.280 --> 00:57:00.119
as well as guest appearances in Jacob and Lightfoot, the Worlds of

1158
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:03.119
Doctor Who, the Excelus Range...

1159
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.519
Bag puss, rhubarb, and custards.

1160
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:06.659
And weasel.

1161
00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:13.500
Well, and also including not as the doctor, sapphire and steel.

1162
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.199
The Avengers where...

1163
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:19.139
Game of Thrones version.

1164
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.320
I, you know, I've been wrecking my brain and I've been trying to

1165
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:26.219
think of a bad 6 doctor audio and I just can't think of that.

1166
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:27.179
No, there aren't any.

1167
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:27.960
Todd, are there?

1168
00:57:28.019 --> 00:57:30.300
Besides that one that I mentioned.

1169
00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:31.860
That one-ish.

1170
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:33.960
Initial whispers of terracotta.

1171
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:35.219
But yeah, the 1st few aren't that great.

1172
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:37.739
But they're still not bad, but they're better than the ones around

1173
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:39.179
them by the other doctors.

1174
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:40.320
Yeah, they are actually, yes.

1175
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:45.539
I agree with you. 95, 99% of the 6 doctor ones are actually

1176
00:57:45.539 --> 00:57:47.159
they're just written for him.

1177
00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:51.719
He knows how to play it from the get go with which companions, and

1178
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:55.440
they just rehabilitate the entire character, if you don't like the

1179
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:57.059
character from the series.

1180
00:57:57.179 --> 00:58:01.619
And whereas I think other doctors aren't as well catered for

1181
00:58:01.619 --> 00:58:05.039
initially, but as I said now, I think it's much more an even

1182
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:05.579
playing field.

1183
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:08.940
Yeah, or indeed, I think the big thing is, the reason we didn't do

1184
00:58:08.940 --> 00:58:10.860
Peter Davidson, one of the reasons we're not going to do a

1185
00:58:10.860 --> 00:58:14.579
Sylvester McCoy one is, well, we might, but we're not currently

1186
00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:18.900
planning to, is that... as good as they are.

1187
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:23.519
There's not much in the audios that they didn't get a chance to do

1188
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:24.239
on television.

1189
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:28.800
Whereas, as you say, Collins audios are about rehabilitating the

1190
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:32.639
character, redressing the kind of damage done to the character by

1191
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:35.760
production decisions, whereas Pete's doctor and Silv's doctor

1192
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.739
weren't as badly affected.

1193
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:41.579
Yeah, they had stronger support behind the scenes as Connell was

1194
00:58:41.579 --> 00:58:42.659
pretty much by himself. exactly.

1195
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:47.219
But they also get variation like in the show. like, you know, Peter

1196
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:51.360
does do 3 years and Sylvester doesn't have a season of an

1197
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:52.980
overarching one story, basically.

1198
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:53.820
Yeah, yeah.

1199
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:57.300
So that's the main reason that we thought we definitely had to

1200
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:02.219
focus on a make a big finish special because he has worked so very

1201
00:59:02.219 --> 00:59:07.559
hard to create this new characterisation of the doctor.

1202
00:59:07.619 --> 00:59:10.500
And it's really good, even if you don't check out the fall we've

1203
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:11.159
talked about today.

1204
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:17.340
All of the ones he did up to the 50th big finish story, they're $3

1205
00:59:17.340 --> 00:59:18.239
to download.

1206
00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:20.519
So do go and check them out.

1207
00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:24.239
In the meantime, you can find us online at Flight Through Entirety

1208
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:27.480
sexy, Flight Through Entirety on Facebook, Apple Podcasts, and

1209
00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:30.239
Google Play and at FTE Podcasts on Twitter.

1210
00:59:30.300 --> 00:59:34.019
Don't forget, you can vote in our Tom Baker commentary, and the 4

1211
00:59:34.019 --> 00:59:39.719
options are the hand of fear, the sun makers, the stones of blood

1212
00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:41.639
and the horns of Nimon.

1213
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:45.059
You can find a link to the poll in the show notes and also at

1214
00:59:45.059 --> 00:59:46.980
flightthrough entirety.sexy.

1215
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:48.840
Over on Bondfinger.

1216
00:59:48.900 --> 00:59:52.380
We've recently completed the Timothy Dalton era of James Bond.

1217
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.380
We may even have started on Pierce Legs.

1218
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:56.639
Brosnan by this point.

1219
00:59:56.699 --> 01:00:00.599
You can find that at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook, Apple

1220
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:04.619
Podcasts, and Google Play, and Bondfingercast on Twitter.

1221
01:00:04.739 --> 01:00:08.579
Until next time, may none of you hit your heads on the console.

1222
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:09.960
Thank you very much for listening good night.

1223
01:00:10.019 --> 01:00:10.559
Good night.

1224
01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:11.099
See you soon.

1225
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:12.119
Good, everyone.

1226
01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:16.739
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan

1227
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:18.659
Bottomley, Brandon Jones, and Richard Stone.

1228
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:21.179
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lann.

1229
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.780
This episode, rehabilitation, was recorded on the 23rd of April

1230
01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:25.559
2017.

1231
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:28.920
The next episode will be released on the 11th of June.

1232
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:34.019
FDE productions are proud to announce a new range of full cast

1233
01:00:34.019 --> 01:00:38.219
audio dramas, including the Doctor Who Technical Manual, Travels

1234
01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:41.219
Without the TARDIS, and the Pit by Neil Penswick.

1235
01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:47.099
This is my final recording with the team.

1236
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.480
Joking.

1237
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:49.500
Okay.

1238
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:51.539
Don't do it again, Tom.

1239
01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:52.260
That was magic.

1240
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:55.679
What are you talking about, Richard?

1241
01:00:55.739 --> 01:00:57.059
Don't spoil it.

1242
01:00:57.059 --> 01:00:59.159
It's you don't know when you used to come in and do your sound

1243
01:00:59.159 --> 01:00:59.880
segues.

1244
01:00:59.940 --> 01:01:02.880
And I said once that you were floating in that, and then it became

1245
01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:06.420
the meme and then he stuck the little tinkleation music over you.

1246
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.340
Is Tom doing that, has he?

1247
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:10.860
No, that's how that's the only way they could actually get Lana

1248
01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:11.400
into the room.

1249
01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:14.699
That's right The first, he won't allow her to record with him

1250
01:01:14.699 --> 01:01:16.619
because he's too old in his words.

1251
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:20.579
Not quite, but I don't think they're actually, when the 1st ones

1252
01:01:20.579 --> 01:01:22.559
they were doing, they weren't in the room together, were they?

1253
01:01:22.619 --> 01:01:24.000
They weren't in the studio together.

1254
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:24.840
Yeah, different days.

1255
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:26.460
Are they still doing them that way?

1256
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:27.059
believe so.

1257
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:27.539
Wow.

1258
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:28.739
She looks really well.

1259
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:32.519
He's fine with, like, they're okay.

1260
01:01:32.579 --> 01:01:35.039
Like they're okay, but he doesn't want her to see him as an old

1261
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:35.219
man.

1262
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:36.119
No.

1263
01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:37.500
He could watch.

1264
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:39.239
Day of the Doctor.

1265
01:01:39.300 --> 01:01:42.960
Yeah, basically that's in tailor. not recording them at the same

1266
01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:43.199
time.

1267
01:01:43.260 --> 01:01:44.280
Good God.

1268
01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:46.019
Wibbly wobbly.

1269
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:51.840
I'd also heard that he gets to the studio 1st and sneaks into one

1270
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.599
of the booths and insists that she's putting a booth where she has

1271
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:55.380
no eyeline with him.

1272
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:56.760
Rubs himself all over it.

1273
01:01:56.820 --> 01:01:59.940
So I have heard that for some of them they've been in the studio

1274
01:01:59.940 --> 01:02:02.579
together and talking, but he's just like, no, don't let her see

1275
01:02:02.579 --> 01:02:02.760
me.

1276
01:02:03.420 --> 01:02:05.400
God, that's fantastic.

1277
01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:06.960
He's like Shara's Jack.

1278
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:08.460
They're doing feud next year.

1279
01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:09.360
Did you hear?

1280
01:02:09.420 --> 01:02:10.440
Yeah, shooting that.

1281
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:13.920
With Tom Baker and Lala Ward season 18.

1282
01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:18.179
You know that actually feud is as a concept going to go on with

1283
01:02:18.179 --> 01:02:18.900
other stories.

1284
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:21.960
Yeah, this is only the 1st one.

1285
01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:23.699
Charles and Diana.

1286
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:24.960
Yeah, Tom and Lala.

1287
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:26.039
David Nathan Turner.

1288
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:27.179
Yeah, Tom and Lala.

1289
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:27.659
Yeah, yeah.

1290
01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:28.500
No, truly.

1291
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:32.699
Charles and Diana are the next one, yeah. and everyone else.

1292
01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:37.019
I was going to say John Wiles, but hey, Janet and Liz.

1293
01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:40.679
Janet and everyone else except for Todd, whom she loves.

1294
01:02:41.219 --> 01:02:46.019
Deny that. really love Janet.

1295
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:48.480
I think we should do it, Janet season. talk about Janet.

1296
01:02:48.539 --> 01:02:50.400
Christopher Eccles doing Keith Boke.

1297
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:53.760
Christopher Eccleston and eventually everybody's in the

1298
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:54.179
production.

1299
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:57.059
Except for Camille. we still here?

1300
01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:58.199
Yeah, okay.