WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:49:07

1
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.140
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

2
00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:38.820
The only Doctor Who podcast pressed onto two plastic discs for your listening pleasure.

3
00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:39.420
I'm Brendan.

4
00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:40.079
I'm Nathan.

5
00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:41.039
I'm Todd.

6
00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:41.640
I'm Richard.

7
00:00:41.700 --> 00:00:55.619
And today we are having a whistle stop tour through the big finish range, focussing on the adventures produced with Colin Baker as the doctor, and the 1st story we're going to be looking at is Jubilee.

8
00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.180
Well, this is yours, isn't it, Nathan?

9
00:01:18.299 --> 00:01:19.379
Yeah, I chose this one.

10
00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:55.739
Without actually having heard it before, it was really just on the reputation of Rob Shearman, who wrote Dalek, and who was kind of asked to somehow adapt Jubilee for the screen or to use elements of Jubilee for the TV program, and in particular, it's the incredible, I think, Cliffhanger, who episode one of the audio that he virtually reproduces years later with Christopher Eccleston, which is the reveal that the prisoner in the Tower is, in fact, a single Dalek who's been chained up and tortured for decades.

11
00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.280
And so this shares a lot, I think, with Dalek.

12
00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:03.060
But nevertheless, the kind of setting is extremely different.

13
00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:04.560
And I think so is the message.

14
00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:16.259
I remember, um, years ago when Rob Sherman was at a Huvention, he was talking about the writing process for adapting garlic, and he said the 1st draft was very much like Jubilee.

15
00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:23.580
And then in the 2nd draft, I changed it slightly so that the owner of the dialect wanted to make the Dalek sing happy birthday for his wife.

16
00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.000
And yeah, then it became very different on television.

17
00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:31.379
But this is, it's an amazing piece of satire, I find.

18
00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:32.520
Jubilee.

19
00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:35.219
It's a beautiful piece like all of Robbie Schumann's work.

20
00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.300
Have you seen his books?

21
00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:43.379
There are some of his short stories you can get through big finish as well, or at least, you know, via the website, you'll find them.

22
00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:45.960
I've downloaded those and I've been reading those as well.

23
00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.599
He's got a really acerbic, cynical, Charlie Brooker kind of feel.

24
00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:55.680
It's the closest Doctor Who's got to Black Mirror, if you've watched any of those.

25
00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:59.580
Yeah, so it's really beautifully done. sort of a near future.

26
00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:13.500
In this case, it's an alternative future, we have a British Empire, again, to whom the, to which the Americans kowtow with hilarious results, and indeed every other nation, and a president and his wife.

27
00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:14.879
But not the queen.

28
00:03:14.939 --> 00:03:16.740
Anyway, they're in a fantastic couple.

29
00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.740
You can see they're definitely sending up.

30
00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:21.060
There's so much in this.

31
00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:28.800
The underlying structures behind power and why power is never actually something to be sought or why capitalism confines it.

32
00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:34.319
Humans themes are vast and really nicely contained.

33
00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:35.159
It's extraordinary.

34
00:03:35.219 --> 00:03:37.620
He shoves that much into one little disc.

35
00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:44.699
So the titular Jubilee is the commemoration of a 100 years since the doctor defeated the dialects.

36
00:03:44.699 --> 00:03:45.360
Correct.

37
00:03:45.419 --> 00:03:47.460
And that gives rise to this.

38
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.699
It's actually worse than a British Empire. an English empire.

39
00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:52.139
That's right, it is an English empire.

40
00:03:52.139 --> 00:04:04.319
With all of the racism, you know, and colonialism that that implies and doing this podcast while we're in the throes of Brexit, just makes it resonate even further, actually.

41
00:04:04.379 --> 00:04:07.680
You said, we're, you see, you're meant to have said, we are.

42
00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:11.759
Sorry, I'm doing contraction. which are not allowed under the English empire.

43
00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:14.580
Nathan, had you listened to many audios before?

44
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:27.360
No, I have to admit that it's not a medium that I like very much, usually because all of my listening kind of happens when I'm walking the dog in the morning and I don't really want to pay much attention to a narrative.

45
00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:31.259
So I mostly listen to just old episodes of Flight through Entirety, actually.

46
00:04:31.259 --> 00:04:32.879
Every morning.

47
00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.220
There is no plot, I assure you.

48
00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:45.000
So coming to this, as somebody who hasn't listened to the 6th doctor on audio, what did you think of the interpretation of the doctor and Collins performance?

49
00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:50.459
So Colin, I think, is really quite different from what we've seen before.

50
00:04:50.459 --> 00:05:06.240
And I think I've mentioned in previous episodes, because this isn't the 1st episode we've recorded since I've listened to Jubilee, I think he benefits enormously from being up against Evelyn Smythe, who is a really, really great character.

51
00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:08.519
It took me a little while to warm to her.

52
00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:15.480
I think she's a little bit staging, a sort of very talky initial scene at the beginning of this story, but she settles down.

53
00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:22.620
She's really good and she just can't be bullied by the 6th doctor and the 6th doctor isn't mean to her.

54
00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:30.839
And this is clearly set at a time after the 6 doctor has kind of settled down and stopped being quite so obnoxious.

55
00:05:30.899 --> 00:05:34.379
And so you get to see Colin at his best when he's being funny.

56
00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:37.980
You know, he's almost immediately wrong about things.

57
00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:42.720
You know, the TARDIS suffers this malfunction, which causes the entire problem.

58
00:05:42.779 --> 00:05:47.819
And, you know, he dismisses it and gets it wrong.

59
00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:59.279
And I think that he really benefits from that and she's a really great character and a sort of shame that it would literally be impossible to conceive of her as a companion on television.

60
00:05:59.819 --> 00:06:07.379
Did that put you off listening to this or like initially, did you find it hard to break into that having never listened to any of her introductory stories?

61
00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:12.540
Yeah, I had never heard her before, but because Jubilee has such a reputation.

62
00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.540
You know, I was kind of happy to give it a listen.

63
00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:17.699
And I was hugely impressed by it.

64
00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:23.339
There are some really great performances, and I think this is Martin Jarvis's best work. isn't it great?

65
00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:24.899
Yeah, we need to cite Jarvis.

66
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.759
Yeah, so he's president of England.

67
00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:32.399
Yeah, President Rochester and his real life wife, Rosalind Ayres, is Miriam Rochester.

68
00:06:32.459 --> 00:06:33.600
So they're a real couple.

69
00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:34.680
Really?

70
00:06:34.740 --> 00:06:35.100
Yeah.

71
00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.319
And doesn't it show?

72
00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.540
I imagine. they had a lot of fun.

73
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.079
Yes, you putrescent ugly cat bags.

74
00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.420
I really am fantastically ugly.

75
00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:46.139
Yes, you are.

76
00:06:49.319 --> 00:07:01.620
I think Shiman is also riffing a bit on Mindwarp as well because Rochester at one point takes the doctor aside and says to him, no, don't you realise everyone in the city's undermined control?

77
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:02.639
I'm not really like this.

78
00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:03.720
I'm having to play along.

79
00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:07.860
And then that whole thing comes around full circle. like no, he really is insane.

80
00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:12.120
But the lie he tells himself is that he's not insane.

81
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.120
I think there's a lot of Tony and Cherie in this as well.

82
00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:20.579
Of course, because this was getting towards the end of Tony and Cherie. very true.

83
00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:24.720
At that moment that I'd forgotten about because I had heard this before.

84
00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:26.699
I re-listen to it for the podcast.

85
00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:36.300
The bit I'd forgotten about when they're flying about in the Dalek solar disc, the bit where Rochester says, oh, no, this, you know, all this rubble and damage isn't from the Daleks.

86
00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:37.199
This is from us.

87
00:07:37.259 --> 00:07:44.699
I'm like, oh, wow, you know, yeah, that's that's really quite biting for now.

88
00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.699
Yeah, well, in Sandra's review, take a drink.

89
00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:54.839
He compares the fact that Rochester is spending money on the Jubilee instead of providing housing.

90
00:07:54.899 --> 00:08:14.040
He compares that to the Olympic Games, of course, in 2012, where we have people on 0 hour contracts preparing for the games, money being spent on the games, the whole of London being militarised with missiles placed on the top of tower blocks and things like that.

91
00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:29.819
And the fact that this whole thing is a celebration of sort of English imperialism, at the expense of the actual well-being of the English people, and Rochester actually says they would much prefer a big street party, though I'd much prefer a jubilee to adequate housing.

92
00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:46.799
And so there's something obviously about that sort of neoliberalism thing and just the idea of using history and patriotism in order to get people to ignore their own welfare, essentially.

93
00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:56.639
And so we do get these giant crowds. the end, the whole thing culminates, doesn't it, of the Jubilee, which is this massive giant celebration of English nationalism.

94
00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:00.000
It's very prescient for now, isn't it?

95
00:09:00.059 --> 00:09:02.639
You could feel as if it was just made to shear or last year.

96
00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.779
And June the 8th, well, no. how close it is.

97
00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:07.559
Yes.

98
00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:18.600
Did you find yourself comparing it to the episode on television, like trying to find similarities all the way through or did you forget about that once you got into the story and that sort of thing?

99
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:31.679
I pretty much think that after episode 2 where we really get to see the Dalek and the doctor interact, there isn't actually much in common between this and the actual story Dalek?

100
00:09:31.740 --> 00:09:39.899
Because you've got less time in Dalek and because the job of Dalek is to reintroduce the Daleks to a completely new audience.

101
00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.580
And so Dalek is fairly simple.

102
00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:47.580
It is just a dalek escaping a base and killing a whole bunch of people.

103
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:52.559
Whereas here, it kind of relies on the fact that we know who the Daleks are.

104
00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.519
It also relies on in terms of Evelyn.

105
00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.240
This is about Evelyn's, I don't know, 7th or 8th story.

106
00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:03.120
She's already met the Daleks in her timeline.

107
00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:13.440
So she still takes on the role that Rose would later take on of saying, you know, this is a creature in pain, but she doesn't have the naivety Rose has.

108
00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:15.299
I'm not using naivety in the pejorative sense.

109
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:30.539
Rose literally doesn't know what the Daleks are capable of, whereas Evelyn does, but at the same time she distinguishes that, hold on, this Dalek is very different to other Daleks, and she even pulls the doctor up on it far more strictly than Rose does.

110
00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:34.019
She says to the doctor, in that case, I cannot see the difference between you.

111
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:38.340
Yeah, yeah, it's the you would make a good Dalek line from Dalek.

112
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:43.980
And in fact, that dalek does become a character and Nick Briggs does just an incredible job.

113
00:10:44.039 --> 00:11:04.379
Like, he really is a superb choice for the new series and for Big Finish, as someone who does these monster voices, because I think they introduce Davros in the 70s and keep him going in the 80s because, generally speaking, the Daleks are sort of fairly boring conversationalists.

114
00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:14.580
But here, he's given a real character and all of that stuff about needing orders and stuff, I guess, stays in in Dalek.

115
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.179
You know, he's been abandoned, he's got no sort of purpose.

116
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:31.500
And I guess we discover through his complete lack of purpose that, in a sense, the Daleks don't make any sense as a threat because they define themselves against the other.

117
00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:33.659
Their whole purpose is to destroy everyone else.

118
00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:46.740
And so once they've done that, the only thing that they can do is invent another within their own ranks and fight against each other until there's literally only one left.

119
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:47.879
And what's the point of that?

120
00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:54.480
And I guess that that is supposed to be a commentary on the humans themselves.

121
00:11:54.539 --> 00:12:09.000
I mean, the doctor tells this story about this sort of warlike race of people who fight until everyone's sort of eliminated, and he's giving that as a big speech at the Jubilee, and we're all supposed to think he means the Daleks, but he doesn't.

122
00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:10.919
He means the English Empire.

123
00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:12.000
He means the human race.

124
00:12:12.419 --> 00:12:18.840
Speaking of that, Ross, with all the lines in the beginning about the prisoner in the wheelchair in the tower.

125
00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:20.100
Now you hadn't heard this before.

126
00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.679
I did actually know this though.

127
00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:23.940
I had been spoiled.

128
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:36.960
So that is another doctor, the doctor from 1903, who had gone back in time and he'd been captured and horribly mutilated and stuffed in the tower for 100 years.

129
00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:39.480
And Colin gets to do some proper acting.

130
00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:45.360
You know, he's not normally called upon to be anything other than himself sort of slightly louder.

131
00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:47.820
And I think he's really good there.

132
00:12:47.820 --> 00:13:12.600
But I think that's one of the strengths of big finish and certainly their vision and Gary Russell is that they wanted to regenerate this doctor in the eyes of fandom and really change the character or give common, you know, different things to do to show what he could do, which, as we've discussed, you know, behind the scenes stuff on the show, just never really gave him that opportunity fully.

133
00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:17.820
Well, I think this is the best Colin story that I've seen or heard.

134
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.820
I think it's certainly better than anything that made it to television.

135
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.820
It's much more complicated and much more interesting.

136
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.240
While still being sort of camp and silly and funny.

137
00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:33.179
But funny in a way that's increasingly unpleasant, you know, and difficult to tolerate.

138
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:34.200
Yes.

139
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:37.799
Well, the poor little people in the Daleks, especially the one from America who doesn't fit.

140
00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:40.259
Yeah, so what he saws his arm off or something.

141
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:40.740
Yeah.

142
00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.179
So he fits in the dalek.

143
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:56.399
Like all of that stuff is gross and black comedy, but it's black comedy that's actually done well as opposed to the sort of black comedy that Seward does, which is kind of not very sophisticated.

144
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:57.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

145
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:07.259
I mean, that's the thing, because especially when Rochester does cut off that guy's hand, his immediate reactions doctor is, just saying, no, remember, I'm not actually evil.

146
00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.279
I'm just pretending, the doctor's like, no, you just chopped off someone's head.

147
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:12.000
That's evil.

148
00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:14.220
You keep that in mind, Nathan.

149
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:15.179
Yeah, sorry.

150
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:27.899
I won't do it again Something I love about that old doctor in the wheelchair scene is Colin has that rare talent in an actor where, you know, you've got the whole storytelling thing of show don't tell.

151
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:33.059
But in about 30 seconds, the doctor tells us what he suffered in the last 100 years.

152
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.600
And I think the most affecting part is when he talks about how Evelyn died, his version of evil and died.

153
00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:44.879
And he just has that line of I had your bones to talk to, but then they took them away.

154
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:51.360
And, you know, it's like one of those things of, you know, write a sad story in 10 words kind of thing.

155
00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:57.840
But it's just the way that he says it, not exactly without emotion, but without an extreme of emotion.

156
00:14:57.899 --> 00:14:59.340
You know, he's all cried out.

157
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.279
He's not gone insane, but he's just like, he's done.

158
00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:03.179
He's just done.

159
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:04.139
He's resigned to it.

160
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.200
And then his scene with the Dalek at his dare.

161
00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:14.700
I mean, I can just imagine Colin going, hey, I get to die as the doctor and keep going all in the one script.

162
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.159
We all love a good death scene. dear listener.

163
00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:26.700
We just recorded our time incorporated, and I think Nathan and Todd had the most amount of fun when I told them they had to grapple in the time vent and scream at each other.

164
00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:31.740
Yeah, no, we've already arranged a date to reenact that. much like this podcast, indeed.

165
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:38.279
There's a lots of cod Shakespeare in this too, which is also something that Rodri Schimman does really nicely.

166
00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:44.039
So, you know, they are, as Cherie and Tony were, the current Lord and Lady Macbeth.

167
00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:45.059
Yes exactly.

168
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.039
Well, and she's sort of fabulously scheming too, Miriam is really, really terrifically good.

169
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:53.519
Is Miriam our favourite big finish, naughty girl?

170
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:54.840
I think she might be one of them.

171
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:56.759
She is really terrific.

172
00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:00.960
So there's even that very opening scene and it's not entirely clear what's going on.

173
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:07.259
But they're playing naughty sort of games with each other and contracting their words.

174
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.600
So they're saying isn't mustn't to each other.

175
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:12.659
And Rochester slaps her.

176
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:19.320
Then we discover that she's actually plotting against him and we think, you know, the slaps. absolutely fantastic.

177
00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:23.700
Yeah, and but the reason is, no, she's even more evil than him.

178
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:31.200
Yeah, yeah, because she doesn't believe that she's doing this because she has to hide the fact that she's a good person.

179
00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:32.940
No, she's like, no, we want revolution.

180
00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:38.820
Well, in fact, the slab, which is meant to be a signifier that Rochester's evil and that she isn't.

181
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:44.519
Her actual objection is that the slap wasn't hard enough and that he never once broke her skin.

182
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:55.919
And this is a world where women are sort of subjugated and relegated to 2nd class status and where foreigners aren't allowed into the country and once you leave the country, you're not allowed back.

183
00:16:55.980 --> 00:17:01.559
And, you know, it's really, it's a really, really gruesome dystopia.

184
00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:09.299
And it's kind of funny that the doctor doesn't kind of remark upon it initially and it's not entirely clear how it's arisen.

185
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.019
And so for a while, we think that this is what the world is like.

186
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:21.960
And apparently, Schumann had wanted big finish to actually leave this world in place and maybe go back and revisit it.

187
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:31.319
And I've read a comment on Santa's blog by him where he actually says that he thinks that episode 4 is a bit talky and doesn't quite work.

188
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:40.920
And that's partly because Big Finish wouldn't let him keep this as the status quo and everything had to sort of revert back to normal at the end.

189
00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:50.279
So it is really kind of dark and I really, really like the alternative creepy, horrific world that it creates. alternative anymore, is it?

190
00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:53.160
Well, I think that that's the point of alternative worlds, isn't it?

191
00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:57.299
You know, a lot of science fiction set in the future is actually just set in the present day.

192
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.440
British asset. specialised on in that since before the war.

193
00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:03.599
And it's not just Orwell and Huxley.

194
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:04.920
We've had so many of them doing this.

195
00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:06.720
All the great writers have looked at it.

196
00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:07.500
We're just getting closer.

197
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:13.559
Well, in fact, there's an adaptation on American television at the moment of Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's tab.

198
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:16.019
I was just thinking of Handmaid's Total when we were talking about Miriam.

199
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:16.980
Yeah, it's very close.

200
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.420
Well, that's about the present.

201
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.920
You know, that's not about a speculative future. about how women are treated now.

202
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:31.859
And I think this sort of strain of English fascism has sort of been present in Britain for, you know, decades and decades.

203
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.519
And so the doctor's done something that really unleashes it here.

204
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:45.660
So from an alternative present to a rather distorted version of the past, it's Doctor Who and the Pirates.

205
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.359
Was this your choice, Brendan?

206
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:18.119
This was my choice, and why did you choose this one?

207
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.119
Apart from being able to go...

208
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.220
Um, there's a few reasons I chose this one.

209
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.259
One of them, of course, is Billy...

210
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.700
Bill Ody is the... playing Bill Ody.

211
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:39.059
But also, you know, Bill Oddie, famous for being in the goodies comedian, you don't expect him to play a villain and he's funny and chilly in this story.

212
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.420
It bookends nicely with the previous story, doesn't it?

213
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:48.660
Because you're not quite sure which side the villains are and then are they as, ooh, they are.

214
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.079
Ooh.

215
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:54.299
Oh, I also enjoy the story because it works on a few levels.

216
00:19:54.359 --> 00:20:00.240
So the story starts with evil and visiting one of her old students who is quite upset about something.

217
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:04.619
So Evelyn starts telling her the story of when she and the doctor met some pirates.

218
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.140
She's rescued her from the chip vat, hasn't she?

219
00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.880
Down in the uni canteen.

220
00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:09.839
That's right, yes.

221
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.299
Yeah, it is a bit Bill, isn't it?

222
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:14.579
Yeah, and so starts telling her the story.

223
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:17.460
And Sally, this girl who...

224
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.900
It's Helen playing the part again.

225
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.619
Helen Goldwin.

226
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.700
She's so good, yeah.

227
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:25.920
And for a moment I thought, oh, is this Sally who later turns up as a companion to the 7th doctor, but no, it isn't.

228
00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:28.259
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

229
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.019
So Evelyn's telling the story.

230
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:36.599
And the great thing is all the way through part one, Sally's breaking in with, hold on. no that doesn't make any sense.

231
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:43.259
I think in the story, like Evelyn Gibbs, Bilotti's character, 2 peg legs and hooks for hands.

232
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.779
And it's kind of like, well, how does he walk?

233
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:53.039
How did he draw a sword, you know, and she complains that all of the pirate tropes are actually sort of historically inaccurate.

234
00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:57.960
Yeah, and all the pirates are called Bill Billson and John Johnson and they all, but they all sound the same.

235
00:20:58.019 --> 00:20:59.279
You've already done that.

236
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.039
Remind me, who wrote this one again?

237
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:10.140
This one was written by Jacqueline Rayner, who also created Evelyn, and she Jack Rayner does a fantastic job with historical.

238
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.400
She's great with sci-fi as well.

239
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:12.720
She's got a good blog too.

240
00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:17.099
And she also writes wrote that page in Doctor Who magazine for ages.

241
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:29.519
Yeah, about introducing her children, Doctor Who, which is so lovely and heartwalling and you get you get things in there like they're watching time flight or time lash and really loving it and enjoying it, you know, that sort of thing.

242
00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:37.079
So we have a level of artifice in this story because it's evil and elated the doctor telling Sally.

243
00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:40.380
This story about meeting up with pirates.

244
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.660
It's funny too, isn't it?

245
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:47.819
Because the whole thing is a very definite short story kind of premise.

246
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:57.900
You know, it's the evening, the doctor and and Evelyn turn up to tell a story to Sally and they resolve something in Sally's life by doing it.

247
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.660
And it's not entirely clear that the pirate story is going to matter or indeed go anywhere.

248
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.500
But that story really develops and becomes engaging.

249
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.940
At the end of episode one.

250
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:18.000
I think at one point in episode one, there's some throwaway line from someone suggesting that the story actually doesn't matter or there isn't really a proper story or anything like that.

251
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:30.240
And I found myself a little bit irritated by the inset story while still enjoying the framing story, but that inset story actually becomes quite compelling, I think.

252
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:31.440
Yeah, yeah.

253
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:33.000
It does become compelling.

254
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:37.920
And again, it kind of becomes compelling almost entirely because of Maggie Stables as Evelyn.

255
00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:47.279
You know, the doctor's companions are always the human touch and identifying the human emotion, and Evelyn is so incredibly human.

256
00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:52.500
You know, she tries to stop the pirates fighting by giving them all a piece of dairy milk.

257
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:55.380
Only she could do that.

258
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:56.160
Exactly.

259
00:22:56.220 --> 00:22:58.980
And she's like one for you and one for you and one for you.

260
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:04.920
But then Red Jasper jumps across to a pirate who's contradicted him just before that and rips out his tongue anyway.

261
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:21.119
You know, we have this combination of Evelyn's great humanity and jolly hockey sticks kind of attitude, counterpointed with this extreme and possibly historically accurate violence and punishment and torture.

262
00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:30.660
And we also get the sense that we're not sure where the story ends and the truth begins and not to preempt, but at the end, it seems that all of these things were in part way true.

263
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.099
Yeah, absolutely.

264
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:50.700
And yeah, as the story goes on, we discovered that something has happened in Sally's life and she's been responsible for someone's death, which is why Evelyn has come to see her and Evelyn starts to imply that she knows what that's like and she's like, no, sorry, look, I can't tell any more of this story.

265
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:56.279
And so the doctor says, I think you need cheering up and says, how about a musical?

266
00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.559
The cliffhanger team. going to sing.

267
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:00.480
That's the cliffhang of the episode too.

268
00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:05.160
And it is it is Colin going, oh, and the cliffhanger cuts in.

269
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:13.019
And the weird thing is with the music and I don't know if it just takes some getting used to, but at the beginning, the musical is just bloody horrible.

270
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:19.140
It is Colin very cleverly, Segigo, a rewrite of, I am a very model of a modern major general.

271
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:23.700
Well, in fact, most of the songs are taken from Pirates of Penzance, but there is also...

272
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:24.960
There's a bit of pinafore in there as well.

273
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.519
Because they had been talking about Gilbert and Sullivan beforehand in the plot.

274
00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:32.940
But the songs, I think, become very good.

275
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:40.799
There's one occasion where Sally starts singing in the present day, which is a ballad and that intertwines with the stuff from the pirate ship.

276
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:49.680
In fact, I think that that's terrifically clever because the only reason the pirates are singing is because Evelyn and the doctor are telling the story in that way.

277
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.160
But suddenly in the real world, in the framing story.

278
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:56.039
She starts to sing to express her emotions as well.

279
00:24:56.099 --> 00:25:01.619
So that artifice leaks into the framing story, which I think is terrifically clever.

280
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:15.240
And that's really where we discover that what Evelyn wants to do is actually try and persuade Sally not to kill herself in remorse at the death that she's caused.

281
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:26.700
And one of the ways she does that is, of course, showing that she's in the same position, but is still managing to live on despite her own loss and her own feelings of guilt and responsibility.

282
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:27.660
Yeah.

283
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:46.740
I think it's one of the things I really like about these audios is that it allows original series actors and their doctors to actually be able to be put into a more modern day context and be given these really heavier plots or, you know, stopping her killing herself is something that we see on television today.

284
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:51.839
Whereas back in, you know, 1986 or whatever, these things weren't really explored with any complexity.

285
00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:59.400
That's one of the things that I like in these audios that you can actually go there with the cast and see how it all develops.

286
00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:00.539
Yeah, absolutely.

287
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.799
And as you say, there's some real modern kind of storytelling here.

288
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:18.299
Not only with kind of the 4th wall breaking, but particularly when Jasper starts to kill Jem, the character who's sort of become Evelyn's companion during this.

289
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:23.400
He the cabin boy of the ship that the pirates rob, and he's resourceful and plucky and charming and sweet.

290
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:23.819
Exactly.

291
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:32.160
And unwittingly, he knows where the treasure Jasper is looking for is, but he doesn't know that he knows.

292
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:34.559
So when Jasper's asking for information, he can't tell.

293
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:36.660
And that's when Evelyn says, look, I can't tell any more of this.

294
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:47.160
And when we see Evelyn again, it's already too late and we get a beautiful scene between her and Colin, where there's hardly even any words, it's just the sounds the actors are making.

295
00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:53.160
And it's shortly before then that instead of poking holes in the story.

296
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:55.799
Whenever we cut back to Sally, she's saying, but what about this?

297
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:56.700
And what about that?

298
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.339
You know, she's like a five-year-old kid wanting more information.

299
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:11.339
And it kind of proves where Eric Sayward was on a bit of a false premise in this era of the show, where he's talking about, you know, in order for violence to be effective, you must, you know, you must show the blood.

300
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:12.839
And it's like, not really.

301
00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:16.980
You know, the violence there is effective, not because we don't show the blood.

302
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.920
It's because we show the human reaction afterwards.

303
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:27.420
And not only that, it's also not a gratuitous death because Evelyn is able to...

304
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:34.559
I hate to use the word use, but Evelyn is able to show the other pirates and sailors, look, this is what's happened to Jen.

305
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:36.119
This is what it will happen to all of you.

306
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:37.920
This guy doesn't care about you.

307
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:39.420
We're giving you a chance to escape.

308
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:46.079
So he doesn't die in vain in a way because all those other lives are saved, which is a very modern Doctor Who thing as well.

309
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:50.579
But it's not just those lives that are saved, but Sally's life that's saved as well.

310
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:54.299
It's that death that enables her to connect with Sally and really reach her.

311
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.799
And I think that's really good.

312
00:27:55.859 --> 00:28:11.099
You know, there's, there are superficial things about the big finish audios, like the 4 episode structure and all of that sort of thing, which just makes it seem like they're there for sort of fanboys to kind of slot chronologically into their appropriate spots.

313
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.400
But here I think it uses that episode structure and really kind of subverts it.

314
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:24.240
It does something that Doctor Who could never, ever, possibly have done during Holland Baker's era or indeed during the entire classic series.

315
00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:33.359
Yeah, and I love how it takes, you know, we've always said, and fans always say, the 3rd episode is run around, get captured and talk in lots of corridors.

316
00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:41.940
So it kind of goes, right, if the plot never advances in episode 3 anyway, We'll make that into a musical where, you know, the doctor drinks a sailor under the table and throws him overboard.

317
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.960
Yeah, it's just the plot doesn't really go anywhere in that episode.

318
00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:47.099
But hey, who cares?

319
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:53.279
It's using an otherwise useless part of the story in an interesting way.

320
00:28:53.339 --> 00:29:00.960
Yeah, and then we get the beautiful ending where the thing is, evil and doesn't kind of say to Sally, this is what I think you should do.

321
00:29:01.019 --> 00:29:03.720
Evelyn just says, look, that's the end of the story.

322
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:07.319
I don't know if it helped and maybe it was the wrong story to tell.

323
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:08.759
But by then it's morning.

324
00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:11.759
And I think it's really very sweet.

325
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.799
This is a historical story.

326
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:18.180
I think that really benefits from not having any pteroreptils in it.

327
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:22.200
That's a first.

328
00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:31.619
Well, after all, that sadness and death, I think it's time to pop down to the great plaza of Generios for a party in the one doctor.

329
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:14.759
I approach this a bit differently from everybody else.

330
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:24.299
In terms of, although we've been talking about go and listen to these things, I kind of think that some of our listeners won't because they're not into audio.

331
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.640
They might only like Doctor Who on screen.

332
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.519
They're very busy people too, I think, Todd generally.

333
00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:31.319
That's right.

334
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:34.079
And very attractive people, which has to be said.

335
00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:35.880
So fun at parties.

336
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:41.880
So I just want to say, I'm not a big fan of Doctor Who in other mediums other than what we see on the screen.

337
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:43.380
I'm not into the books.

338
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:47.039
I find after a while with reading the books when they start introducing you characters.

339
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.319
I lose interest because I can't visualise them.

340
00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:51.359
They're not real people that I've seen on screen.

341
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:54.119
I'm not into comics, so that means nothing to me.

342
00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:57.059
And so I like the Doctor 2 movies.

343
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.660
They a bit of fun.

344
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:04.680
But when it comes to audio, I guess, you know, we've got missing episodes of Doctor Who, which we can only now hear on audio.

345
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:17.519
So for this, I thought, well, I wanted to try and appeal to perhaps those of you out there who don't particularly like other mediums, but might be prepared to listen to the actual original stars of the show.

346
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:23.519
And so when I chose this, I basically said, well, I'm not going to choose Evelyn, who I really love and think is fantastic.

347
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:26.819
So the choice was either Perry or Mel.

348
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:35.220
And of course, Perry has got so many audios with not only the 6 doctor, but the 5th doctor, so I thought, well, I'm going to go with Mel.

349
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:43.799
Now, if you've been listening to the podcast, you know that I'm not a huge fan of Mel, and I do prefer her with the 6th doctor over the 7th doctor.

350
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:56.819
So when coming to this, I think in deciding to do the one doctor, I thought, well, let's have a look at the entire range, and I decided that I wanted to actually go with the very 1st one that they've recorded together, right?

351
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.059
And this is fairly early on in the big finish range.

352
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:06.000
Bonnie's only done one before this, the fires of Vulcan with Sylvester, which is, I think, number 12 in the range.

353
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:09.299
This the one doctor is number 27.

354
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:10.619
So it's still very early on.

355
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:16.380
I personally think that big finish are fairly variable in their 1st 50 to 60 titles.

356
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:20.880
But the titles that actually do work are actually all the Collins.

357
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:28.559
Later on now, I think they work really well with all the doctors and have really honed the companions and the doctors and getting strips that work.

358
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:34.619
But at this point in time, for me, like 90% of the colon or the 6 doctor scripts work.

359
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:39.539
So anyone I don't particularly warm to is probably, I think, the 1st one, which is the whispers of terror with Perry.

360
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.579
So anyway, so I decided to go with Mel.

361
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:46.619
Now, for me to choose Mel, I think does say something about the big finish audios.

362
00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:53.880
I don't buy all the audios anymore, and really, for me, the pinnacle of the audios are the 6 doctor and Eve.

363
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:57.240
The only other ones that I will always buy.

364
00:32:57.299 --> 00:33:00.539
Are the 6 Dr. Mel or the 7th Dr. Mel.

365
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:01.259
Wow.

366
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:05.579
And what's the one and of course, the common factor there is Mel.

367
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:10.619
And I just think Bonnie Langford is absolutely brilliant in the audios.

368
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.019
Not only her performance.

369
00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:19.259
But like the rehabilitation they've done at the 6th doctor, they finish do the same thing here with Mel.

370
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:29.220
Bonnie's allowed to use her own intelligence in the part and actually, and therefore flesh out a character that really wasn't much more than a daisy duck without the bustle.

371
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.200
Yeah, no, it was just getting Bonnie in.

372
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:33.539
That is a costume, Brendan. looking at you.

373
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:35.579
Yeah.

374
00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:39.299
But you see, this chronologically is the 1st one that she does with the 6th doctor.

375
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.339
It's a damn good one too.

376
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:43.019
I agree.

377
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:49.740
And I think one of the things here is that they actually allow light and shade. when he gives it light and shade.

378
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:51.359
She's still plucky.

379
00:33:51.480 --> 00:34:00.599
I've actually just watched Time and the Rani, and one of the biggest problems is that Mel screams and is given just terrible dialogue that Bonnie has to contend with.

380
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:04.259
And I actually now appreciate what she's trying to do. in that performance.

381
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.420
And here, she's given much better dialogue.

382
00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:08.820
And the character can actually make fun of herself.

383
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:17.219
And that's one of the strengths, I think of this one doctor story, is that if you've been listening to the range so far, you would already be in the mode of the new 6 doctor, right?

384
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.139
So you already know what he's going to be like.

385
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:22.320
But here with Mel, it's sort of like, well, is she going to be like she is on screen?

386
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:29.159
One of the things I just enjoys the fact that she can be earnest and forthright and, you know, is going to succeed.

387
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:35.280
But at the same time, she can rid the doctor, the doctor can rib her, she can make fun of herself, and that's throughout this entire script.

388
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:39.719
Now, this script is by Clayton Hickman and Gareth Roberts.

389
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:49.980
And Gareth, of course, has written a number of stories on screen such as The Shakespeare code, the lodger, closing time, Unicorn and the Wasp.

390
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.440
And there's a lot of comedy in those.

391
00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:54.119
And I like comedy in Doctor Who.

392
00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:56.820
And this is like their Christmas special.

393
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:05.699
It's also fairly early on in the range in that all the doctors are still using the pert we Tom Baker theme in their 4 episode format.

394
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.340
They haven't done all the individual titles.

395
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:18.780
So if you're listening to this for the 1st time, you'll get what you think is the wrong title sequence, but just... didn't have the rights at that time.

396
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.300
But just listen for...

397
00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:22.079
I think it's episode three.

398
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:23.460
And that's all.

399
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:25.139
It's a carnival, isn't it?

400
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:25.619
wonderful.

401
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:27.420
That's all I say.

402
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.760
Okay, so that's why I chose this.

403
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:34.380
I mean, that's very long winded, but, you know, I wanted, I absolutely adore Bonnie Langford.

404
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:49.019
So the story, the doctor and his companion, Sally Ann, have just defeated the evil Skeloids on the planet of Generios, and they couldn't possibly take payment, you know, for their services, but they are going to.

405
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:58.139
Then the real doctor and Mel turn up and are suitably outraged by Mel is certainly by this situation.

406
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:08.460
And uh, it gets more competitive because then some actual aliens do turn up and want to, you know, destroy the 17 planets of Generius or whatever it happens to be.

407
00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:33.719
And this is where I think it gets really funny, is that I can just imagine Gareth and Clayton, much like perhaps Nathan and Richard having a few drinks one night and then deciding to get more and more outrageous and then coming up with a way to sort of poke fun at the show, but also refer back to things that they really do like in terms of the show.

408
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:36.719
So they have to go on a quest. right?

409
00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.519
A bit like the key to time, right?

410
00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:39.539
To do a few different activities.

411
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.780
I actually think it's more like it's more like the keys of mariners.

412
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.639
Oh, yes, actually, you're right.

413
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.280
With a nod to Douglas Adams.

414
00:36:47.340 --> 00:37:01.619
But what's really wonderful is the fact that this fake doctor played wonderfully by Christopher Biggins, right, takes an instant shrine to Mel, like in a, yeah, in a way that, you know, Mel's got to sort of, she likes him, but she's got to vend off his advances.

415
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:02.400
It's very funny.

416
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.679
The doctor can't stand him, so there's this friction.

417
00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:13.800
Likewise, Sally Ann finds the 6 doctors so attractive and, you know, wants to get her on with him, much to the annoyance of Mel, right?

418
00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:18.119
So this is just wonderful interplay between all of these characters, like the opposites.

419
00:37:18.179 --> 00:37:20.760
And then they've got to go off on their little separate missions.

420
00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.980
And it's just, I just find it delicious.

421
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:27.239
I have to say that I think that the beginning part is stronger than the rest of it.

422
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:34.500
And the best thing is, of course, the take that Christopher Biggins's character who's called Banto, I think.

423
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:35.519
Banto Zane.

424
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:47.219
Yeah, and Sally Ann have, you know, and when the president of Generios leaves the room, they start cracking open beers and kind of snogging and stuff like that and all sorts of things that the doctor and Mel would never do.

425
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:54.179
And all of that's really funny because you've got Colin Baker, who's a large sort of bombastic performance.

426
00:37:54.239 --> 00:38:03.300
And then you've got Christopher Biggins, who is, of course, TV's Nero from Claudius, and he's sort of famously Anto.

427
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:05.400
Yeah, yeah, huge Enpanto.

428
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:11.880
And so you've got 2 characters, both Mel and Colin Baker's doctor are big.

429
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.360
And so Christopher Biggins and Sally Ann.

430
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:28.559
But after that, I do think it gets a little bit tiresome because they do head off and their quest involves some fairly kind of some fairly kind of generic satire.

431
00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:29.280
Do you know what I mean?

432
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.539
Like IKEA furniture.

433
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:32.940
Gosh, is an IKEA furniture hard to assemble?

434
00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:35.039
Let's make a cliffhanger about that.

435
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:45.599
Yeah, or when you're waiting for a delivery, you get given this like 4 hour time window and the moment you nip out for a sliced loaf, that's when they come and deliver.

436
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:50.099
And those are sort of fairly well-worn kind of observations.

437
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:59.579
And they're sort of charmingly done and there's some wonderful sort of fun performances, but the things themselves are just a little bit kind of predictable.

438
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:04.139
Yeah, I do think, though, that just sort of gives more strength to the performances.

439
00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:10.800
Like, um, spoiler alert, the IKEA furniture bit, that's something Mel and Banto have to do, the fake doctor played by Biggins.

440
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:20.280
And there's a bit where Banto wants to give up and Mel gives this really stirring speech about how she never gives up on anything and she tells a story about her childhood.

441
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:26.039
And I won't spoil it, but there's a bit at the end of that, that it takes a turn.

442
00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:30.599
You just don't expect from Mel and it's just really, really funny.

443
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:39.360
Similarly, the doctor and Sally Ann, like you said, Todd, she can't keep her hands off him and the doctor's just a mixture of annoyed and confused by this.

444
00:39:39.420 --> 00:39:45.000
Like what on earth is going on, but again, that's something that pays off at the end of the story, again, in a way I won't explain.

445
00:39:45.059 --> 00:40:09.059
See, I like, I really like the whole IKEA furniture thing with the dissemblers, because the dissembler, they remind me of the stones of blood and the Megara, the justice machines and like, you know, Mel and Banto are, you know, up against it with this IKEA furniture and their their instructions and they're going to be dissembled if they spoil alert, don't finish it.

446
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:11.880
But she's also having to fend off his advances at the same time.

447
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:13.679
I just keep laughing and laughing.

448
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:17.699
And their solution to that problem is actually genius.

449
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:18.780
It is genius.

450
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:21.179
This was recorded, I think, in 2001.

451
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:22.199
So it's 16 years ago.

452
00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:23.400
This is before the new series.

453
00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:29.820
And so the doctor and Sally Anne have stumbled upon this quiz show, which is sort of like the weakest link.

454
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

455
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:32.340
And it's got this super brain.

456
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.840
Mentos is the super brain.

457
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:35.579
Yes, it's plain toss. sometimes.

458
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:43.860
But I kind of think, well, okay, so they're sending up not only the weakest link, but also their super brain is sort of like Aurak from Blake 7.

459
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:49.980
And of course, you know, the whole thing with the 6 doctor thinking, you know, he's going to get it right, but of course, he doesn't.

460
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:54.239
And, you know, Collins sort of the sort of fumbling around and sort of the embarrassment at that.

461
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.719
But then giving Sally Anne the opportunity to actually solve that problem.

462
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:59.579
Is I just...

463
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:00.420
One Essex way.

464
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:03.360
Do you love the name check of Sally Anne as well?

465
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:08.280
Do you remember the math show in the mid 70s that some of us were forced to watch?

466
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:19.920
It is on YouTube, and there's the phonus, and there's some bloke in a sort of really roony-oed version of, what's his name, who does all the Dead Ringers audio?

467
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:25.199
Yes, a really many times a roonyoed version of John Colshaw, as Tom.

468
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:32.039
And he's a companion is Sally Ann with the little bobbles in her hair and being just as plucky and annoying as we loved it.

469
00:41:32.099 --> 00:41:36.119
It was so exciting to see Pastasia Doctor Who in school in the 70s.

470
00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:41.400
But now they've done her as an Essex character, and she's really nicely foreshadows the character of Rose.

471
00:41:41.460 --> 00:41:47.699
I do agree with you, Nathan, that I think the last segment with the Jelloid is the weakest of the three.

472
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.500
And you know who's the Jelloid is.

473
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:55.559
The geloid is Matt Lucas, who, of course, plays Nadol in the current series of Doctor Who.

474
00:41:55.619 --> 00:42:00.840
He's also the voice, I think, of the actual aliens that are going to destroy the system.

475
00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:02.400
It's a great voice too.

476
00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:05.820
And that Jelloid character is really funny and terribly sweet.

477
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:11.159
It reminds me of, um, there's a Futurama episode where they go to planet that's all sand.

478
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.539
Yeah, the creature from the pig.

479
00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:17.519
And I think fry drinks, like there's a glass and drinks the king, whereas this is sort of in reverse.

480
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:22.440
Like, so it is, I do find that quite funny, but I do think it does run out of steam in that sense.

481
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:29.340
I just think for people out there who perhaps aren't into audio and not even necessarily into Mel.

482
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:35.039
I think this is a really good example of how the characters can be regenerated or rehabilitated.

483
00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:49.139
And if you like a bit of offbeat humour like I do, then it's not too heavy and you can, and if you're willing to go with it sending up things, but in a fun way, I think, you know, it's a great enjoyable hour of your time or hour and a half of your time.

484
00:42:49.860 --> 00:43:15.900
Now, before we go on to our last story, Todd is going to leave us, because we're discussing a story called The Brink of Death, which is part of a 4 story box set called The Last Adventure, which has 4 adventures featuring Collins Doctor, the last one of which is the Brink of Death, which finally, with Colin in the role and performing it, shows the events leading up to his regeneration.

485
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:23.699
Now, Todd, last time we were talking recording, you actually told me why you didn't want to stick around for this one and I thought it was a really lovely thing to say.

486
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.900
So would you mind telling the listeners?

487
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.019
I don't want to actually listen to this until such time.

488
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:33.239
And so such time when we can't record any more stories with this doctor.

489
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:36.119
If people understand what I'm saying there.

490
00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:41.400
There will come a time when Big Finish won't be able to have the previous doctors working.

491
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:43.980
So I actually want to leave this until that time.

492
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.460
Like, this is the end of that, and that will be the end for me.

493
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:58.619
I listen to everything else, but I'm just, at the moment, I'm just decided that I'm just going to wait, you know, another 15 years before I actually, you know, listen to it.

494
00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:23.880
So, Todd has stepped out, and we're going to discuss the brink of death, which...

495
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:25.139
I think we should talk about him, actually.

496
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:27.659
Well, that's really what this episode is actually all about.

497
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:28.500
It's Todd.

498
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:29.400
That's right.

499
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:35.460
I get where Todd's coming from and I kind of like to put them in order of listening.

500
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:36.780
I just have to throw this in.

501
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.099
I know I've said it before, probably.

502
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:53.579
Audio is my prime favourite way of experiencing Doctor Who, and it came about through the missing episodes of the Hartnell and Troutens, which I love more than watching them on television, even the rediscovered ones.

503
00:44:53.639 --> 00:45:01.500
Webber fears a lot more exciting when you don't know what it looks like or how when it drags, you've just got the musical cues.

504
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:11.400
Doctor Who works best in a dreamlike state, like a lot of good cinema, there's that suspension when you're in the dark room and you're, there isn't any other interference.

505
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:14.639
I just think it's a purer way of presenting the narrative.

506
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:18.000
I think this really takes advantage of the medium as well.

507
00:45:18.059 --> 00:45:19.019
Really does.

508
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:20.519
It's a great little piece.

509
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:22.739
They're 4 little set pieces.

510
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:28.800
They need to be heard all together, as we were saying, Brink of Death is just the final of the four.

511
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:36.119
We get back all the surviving companions, extraordinary that even in the audio period that makes it really salient, what Todd's saying.

512
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:37.559
We've lost Maggie Stables.

513
00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:39.360
So of course she doesn't get a chance to do this.

514
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:45.719
We have the fantastic Miranda raisin with 2 L's and no wine.

515
00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:50.039
You know, it was Tallula in Daleks in Manhattan, who's now the new companion.

516
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:56.460
And that's who we thought, I 1st thought, well, we should go with her because she's just so fun and she's a Bletchley Park girl and all the rest.

517
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:57.480
So we get to meet her.

518
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:05.159
We get some lovely moments and some clever things and I want, if you haven't, I don't know, it's hard to talk about something in case the listener hasn't listened to it.

519
00:46:05.219 --> 00:46:06.119
So we'll just assume you have.

520
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:10.440
Yeah, I think now, I think, you know, this episode is going to go out with a spoiler warning.

521
00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:11.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

522
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.360
They all should.

523
00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:13.500
But I really recommend.

524
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:20.880
I, as I said to you, I couldn't do the wrap-up thing because I hadn't been able to get through Collins era and I couldn't in the 80s and I really can't now.

525
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:22.980
But I love him in the audios.

526
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:28.019
And so for me, this doctor exists in the audios, much more than he does on TV.

527
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:43.440
I think the advantage of this particular story, the brink of death is that instead of trying to be a four-part traditional Doctor Who story, it frees itself up by just being an hour long.

528
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:47.639
And a lot of it isn't set in any kind of real place.

529
00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:50.940
I think it is very, very clever.

530
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:53.940
Set in Sapphire and Steelland for the 1st episode, isn't it?

531
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:54.900
Very much so.

532
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:55.380
Oh, yeah.

533
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.960
But we didn't want to talk about the other stories, do we?

534
00:46:58.019 --> 00:46:58.800
We should talk about this one.

535
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.300
Quick rundown of the other stories.

536
00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:07.440
The 1st one with Miranda Raison is Constance Clark, as you said, is the end of the line, which is set in a sort of weird netherworld railway station.

537
00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:17.639
The 2nd episode, the red house is on a planet of werewolves with India Fisher as Charlie Pollard, and the 3rd episode stage fright features Jago and Lightfoot.

538
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.219
And the audio companion flip.

539
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:20.880
Yes.

540
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:26.219
But linking all 4 stories is...

541
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:27.599
Yes, so the Valley Yard appears.

542
00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:28.500
Our own Nathan.

543
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.360
Well, I say all four.

544
00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:34.920
The Valiard appears in he's sort of pressaged in the 1st three and then it appears in the last three.

545
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:36.239
So it doesn't appear in the first.

546
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:39.900
Michael Jason is so fabulous in this too, listening to him again.

547
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:46.500
Have you ever heard him on BBC 4 reading Rogue Male Jeffrey Household thriller?

548
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:54.480
Written before, Hitler came to prominence, but about a single X Soldiers game to assassinate Hitler?

549
00:47:54.539 --> 00:48:06.059
And it's so true of people who've lived in the trenches and because this man spends most of his time literally in a burrow in this novel and chased and is just, anyway, everything he brings to it is fantastic.

550
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:09.840
So, of course, it just works so much better in this one.

551
00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:18.659
There's a really clever ways that they play with the threat of losing tenure of losing life and it almost happens and then it almost happens.

552
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:22.500
And then Colin just deals with it in the most beautiful way that the doctor should do.

553
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:26.219
And it's a very current series way of you give up your life for a friend.

554
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:33.420
It explains the opening of time in the Rani, which you would have assumed would be inexplicable beautifully.

555
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.880
It really does a very good job of that, I think.

556
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:36.960
It's really nice.

557
00:48:37.019 --> 00:48:37.860
It's satisfying.

558
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:49.320
It also gives Colin something really interesting to do because what happens at the very beginning is, you know, the Valiard and the doctor change places kind of inexplicably.

559
00:48:49.320 --> 00:49:07.800
And for a 2nd it's hard to work out what's going on, whether we hear Michael Jason's voice so that we know that it's the Valiard, because it's audio, but Mel is seeing the 6th doctor, but it does actually turn out that they've swapped places and now thinks that Jason is the doctor.

560
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:09.059
And it's a doctor.

561
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:09.539
Exactly.

562
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:12.360
It works beautifully in audio and couldn't work in any other medium.

563
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:14.699
And also, you get this exciting here.

564
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:23.820
What were the value I'd have been like, had he been able to have a life outside trial and be, of course, he's wonderful and much more horrid than the master could have ever managed.

565
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:24.840
Yeah, yeah.

566
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:28.440
And I love Jason and Bonnie together.

567
00:49:28.500 --> 00:49:29.400
Yes, they're great.

568
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:34.199
Because the weird thing is, Bonnie Asmel is still sort of bright and bubbly and what have you.

569
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:37.079
And Michael Jason. his line's on paper.

570
00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:48.239
He's been quite charming and what not, but just the way he delivers them behind every line is, I'm going to kick you out of the 1st airlock combined with no one else around.

571
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:49.860
Miss Bush.

572
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.380
Yeah, it's nice he keeps calling her my dear.

573
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:54.719
Okay, kind of old-fashioned doctor.

574
00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:59.760
But in the meantime, Colin is like this weird, you know, for...

575
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.039
His shadow of his former self.

576
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:04.619
In fact, it's the hiatus colin, isn't it?

577
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.559
I'm just trapped in this non-reality on hold.

578
00:50:07.619 --> 00:50:10.079
I might not even exist or you won't, actually.

579
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:10.860
You've got 6 minutes.

580
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.380
Yeah, and that's that's why it's called the brink of death.

581
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.480
You know he's constantly just a moment away from death.

582
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:18.900
And we have a lovely new Scousey companion, don't we?

583
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:19.800
wonderful, isn't she?

584
00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:20.340
Janesta.

585
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:27.539
She's a uh, a time-lord technician or a galifrain technician who spent some time like in Birmingham or something.

586
00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:29.820
And she's really, really funny.

587
00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:34.380
And the doctor doesn't have to explain to her any of his earth idioms or anything like that.

588
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:36.360
Rodan all the time, wasn't she?

589
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:40.800
Not the chompy monster, but the other chompy monster for invasion of time.

590
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:46.079
And if you're familiar with Big Finish, you kind of know that this situation could lead to her becoming a companion.

591
00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:52.860
So when spoiler alert, she's revealed to have either been taken over by the valiard or to have been the valiard all the time.

592
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.719
It quite affecting. awful.

593
00:50:54.780 --> 00:51:06.659
What I find really strange is something we've criticised the Davison and Colin Baker era a lot for is, you know, whenever they want the villain to get a bit further ahead in the plot, they just lock the doctor in a room for a while.

594
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:07.380
Yes.

595
00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:15.000
It's like Nick Briggs has said, right, well, you know, I'm writing for a particular era and that's something that happens in this era.

596
00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:16.559
How can I make it interesting?

597
00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:33.900
And he makes it interesting by still giving the doctor a difficulty to overcome, which is in convincing Janesta to help him when he has so little time and then concocting a plan, despite the fact he can't physically influence the universe using what's at his disposal.

598
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:42.900
And it really emphasises the best part of Collin's interpretation of the character, which is the doctor's mind, his intelligence and his vocabulary.

599
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.920
So it's like, let's just give him those things and see him work his way out of it.

600
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:54.000
I think Briggs also does something that this era of the program does that I don't like quite so much.

601
00:51:54.360 --> 00:52:00.420
And I guess it is kind of slightly unavoidable given who the Valiard is and what the conception of his character is.

602
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:10.860
And that is that the resolution all becomes about the matrix and symbiotic nuclei and all of those kinds of time, laudy, horrible...

603
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:15.059
Well, and you know, the Valiard has given an explanation, which is pretty...

604
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:15.900
I like the explanation.

605
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:17.460
No, I like that he has a reason.

606
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:19.500
He's not a midi-chlorian. not that bad.

607
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.059
No, it is pretty bad, though.

608
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:21.840
I liked it.

609
00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:27.659
Because that wasn't one of the most unsatisfying things for me, this era of Doctor Who and why I didn't watch much of it.

610
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:29.099
It just none of it made sense.

611
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:32.039
It's all a bit too time-lordy, I think.

612
00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:33.239
And yeah, I know.

613
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:39.900
If you're going to do it, do it in this story, but I've already said that I really hate the Time Lords, and I'm glad Russell killed them all.

614
00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:47.159
And so, you know, I don't think you can have an audio where it isn't all word peril from beginning to end, can you?

615
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:50.280
Because it's an audio, but it is very word parole.

616
00:52:50.340 --> 00:53:07.260
You see, I quite like the whole thing of, you know, it's the Matrix and it wrestle on imprimatches and that sort of thing because it retroactively creates a story arc for the era that ties together season 22, 23 and the audios.

617
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:15.599
I agree with you that it's continuity heavy, but big finish for the last, they're coming up on 20 years, producing Doctor Who plays.

618
00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:23.400
They have sought to redress that failing in the colon era of too much reliance on continuity.

619
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:31.380
And I think this is an effort by them to say, okay, we're honouring what we did, but at the same time, we're not ignoring what happened on TV.

620
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.300
So it's like, how can we smush those together?

621
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:47.460
And also, it's a matter of the only people who are really interested in, oh yeah, but how did the 6 doctor regenerate, are people who are going to know what a megabyte modem is and a particle disseminator and a time vent?

622
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:50.699
It's okay to include all those.

623
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.400
Bloody time vent. gets you every time, doesn't it?

624
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:55.320
Oh, we prime the bolts, you know.

625
00:53:55.440 --> 00:54:01.199
So it does do one thing which I do think is amazing where it does turn.

626
00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:15.300
Colin just accidentally hitting his head on the console and falling over into the doctor sacrificing his life to save the entirety of the universe and the time lords and everything.

627
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:17.760
By giving the console a Liverpool case.

628
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:18.659
Yeah, yeah.

629
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:20.760
Yeah. that is really terrific.

630
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:29.519
And I think I think it was a brave idea to have, you know, the last half of the audio, have the 6 doctor played by Sylvester McCoy in a wig.

631
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:32.760
Spoilers.

632
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:37.079
You got a lovely little moment there with Silver, don't you?

633
00:54:37.139 --> 00:54:38.340
I love this story.

634
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:41.159
Thank you, Brent, because Brennan was saying, no, you need to get this one.

635
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:42.239
This is really good.

636
00:54:42.300 --> 00:54:43.679
The last adventure is worth it.

637
00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:48.900
And since he said that to me, I've actually been buying all of them and I've been enjoying all of them.

638
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:49.980
Yeah, yeah.

639
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:54.119
I think when, and this is just a comment on the range in general.

640
00:54:54.179 --> 00:55:03.059
When Nicholas Briggs took over as executive producer, there was a run of maybe one or 2 years when things weren't bad, but there were no real standouts.

641
00:55:03.179 --> 00:55:03.960
That's correct.

642
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:13.440
There was none of the Baroque silliness that you were getting with, say, some of the stories we've discussed earlier, Todd's one doctor, is a really great example, but we haven't had anything of the level of Jubilee.

643
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:17.340
Yeah. or Holy Terror or what is the parts?

644
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:18.960
Bare parts is extraordinary.

645
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:21.719
But it's also that those riders have now gone on to bigger things.

646
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:22.500
Yeah.

647
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:27.480
Whereas now they have been getting new writers in off the back of things like the Lost Stories range.

648
00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:29.699
And yeah, there's a lot more of variety now.

649
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:31.500
There is, there's so much.

650
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:34.739
In fact, it's really hard to keep up and it's expensive, but it is worth it.

651
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:44.039
But yeah, I mean, really, there's any point you can jump in on, even, even that early sort of Briggs period, it's still good and it's good.

652
00:55:44.099 --> 00:55:46.980
And, you know, that's when they started, that's when they got Janet Fielding back.

653
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:48.059
Oh, yes.

654
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:49.260
In fact, what a coup.

655
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:49.860
And our Tom.

656
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:51.179
Yeah, yeah.

657
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:52.619
Whoever thought that he would come back.

658
00:55:52.679 --> 00:56:06.719
Yeah, and whoever thought that he'd be recording with Lala Ward, although they squeeze Tom into that old perspex octahedron that they had to squeegee Billy out of, don't they, for when he's recording with Lala?

659
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:08.039
not actually allowed to leave it.

660
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:09.659
Todd had been using that.

661
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:10.980
I hope they cleaned it first.

662
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:15.659
And he's back in the room?

663
00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:17.400
I am here listeners.

664
00:56:50.460 --> 00:57:03.119
Well, look, uh, Colin has recorded over 60 plays for next finish, as well as guest appearances in Jacob and Lightfoot, the Worlds of Doctor Who, the Excelus Range...

665
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.519
Bag puss, rhubarb, and custards.

666
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:06.659
And weasel.

667
00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:13.500
Well, and also including not as the doctor, sapphire and steel.

668
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.199
The Avengers where...

669
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:19.139
Game of Thrones version.

670
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:26.219
I, you know, I've been wrecking my brain and I've been trying to think of a bad 6 doctor audio and I just can't think of that.

671
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:27.179
No, there aren't any.

672
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:27.960
Todd, are there?

673
00:57:28.019 --> 00:57:30.300
Besides that one that I mentioned.

674
00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:31.860
That one-ish.

675
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:33.960
Initial whispers of terracotta.

676
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:35.219
But yeah, the 1st few aren't that great.

677
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:39.179
But they're still not bad, but they're better than the ones around them by the other doctors.

678
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:40.320
Yeah, they are actually, yes.

679
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:47.159
I agree with you. 95, 99% of the 6 doctor ones are actually, they're just written for him.

680
00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:57.059
He knows how to play it from the get go with which companions, and they just rehabilitate the entire character, if you don't like the character from the series.

681
00:57:57.179 --> 00:58:05.579
And whereas I think other doctors aren't as well catered for initially, but as I said now, I think it's much more an even playing field.

682
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:18.900
Yeah, or indeed, I think the big thing is, the reason we didn't do Peter Davidson, one of the reasons we're not going to do a Sylvester McCoy one is, well, we might, but we're not currently planning to, is that... as good as they are.

683
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:24.239
There's not much in the audios that they didn't get a chance to do on television.

684
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:37.739
Whereas, as you say, Collins audios are about rehabilitating the character, redressing the kind of damage done to the character by production decisions, whereas Pete's doctor and Silv's doctor weren't as badly affected.

685
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:42.659
Yeah, they had stronger support behind the scenes as Connell was pretty much by himself. exactly.

686
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:52.980
But they also get variation like in the show. like, you know, Peter does do 3 years and Sylvester doesn't have a season of an overarching one story, basically.

687
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:53.820
Yeah, yeah.

688
00:58:53.880 --> 00:59:07.559
So that's the main reason that we thought we definitely had to focus on a make a big finish special because he has worked so very hard to create this new characterisation of the doctor.

689
00:59:07.619 --> 00:59:11.159
And it's really good, even if you don't check out the fall we've talked about today.

690
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:18.239
All of the ones he did up to the 50th big finish story, they're $3 to download.

691
00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:20.519
So do go and check them out.

692
00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:30.239
In the meantime, you can find us online at Flight Through Entirety.sexy, Flight Through Entirety on Facebook, Apple Podcasts, and Google Play and at FTE Podcasts on Twitter.

693
00:59:30.300 --> 00:59:41.639
Don't forget, you can vote in our Tom Baker commentary, and the 4 options are the hand of fear, the sun makers, the stones of blood, and the horns of Nimon.

694
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:46.980
You can find a link to the poll in the show notes and also at flightthrough entirety.sexy.

695
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:48.840
Over on Bondfinger.

696
00:59:48.900 --> 00:59:52.380
We've recently completed the Timothy Dalton era of James Bond.

697
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.380
We may even have started on Pierce Legs.

698
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:56.639
Brosnan by this point.

699
00:59:56.699 --> 01:00:04.619
You can find that at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook, Apple Podcasts, and Google Play, and Bondfingercast on Twitter.

700
01:00:04.739 --> 01:00:08.579
Until next time, may none of you hit your heads on the console.

701
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:09.960
Thank you very much for listening good night.

702
01:00:10.019 --> 01:00:10.559
Good night.

703
01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:11.099
See you soon.

704
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:12.119
Good, everyone.

705
01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:18.659
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley, Brandon Jones, and Richard Stone.

706
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:21.179
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lann.

707
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:25.559
This episode, rehabilitation, was recorded on the 23rd of April 2017.

708
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:28.920
The next episode will be released on the 11th of June.

709
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:41.219
FDE productions are proud to announce a new range of full cast audio dramas, including the Doctor Who Technical Manual, Travels Without the TARDIS, and the Pit by Neil Penswick.

710
01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:47.099
This is my final recording with the team.

711
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.480
Joking.

712
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:49.500
Okay.

713
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:51.539
Don't do it again, Tom.

714
01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:52.260
That was magic.

715
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:55.679
What are you talking about, Richard?

716
01:00:55.739 --> 01:00:57.059
Don't spoil it.

717
01:00:57.059 --> 01:00:59.880
It's you don't know when you used to come in and do your sound segues.

718
01:00:59.940 --> 01:01:06.420
And I said once that you were floating in that, and then it became the meme and then he stuck the little tinkleation music over you.

719
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.340
Is Tom doing that, has he?

720
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:11.400
No, that's how that's the only way they could actually get Lana into the room.

721
01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:16.619
That's right The first, he won't allow her to record with him because he's too old in his words.

722
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:22.559
Not quite, but I don't think they're actually, when the 1st ones they were doing, they weren't in the room together, were they?

723
01:01:22.619 --> 01:01:24.000
They weren't in the studio together.

724
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:24.840
Yeah, different days.

725
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:26.460
Are they still doing them that way?

726
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:27.059
believe so.

727
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:27.539
Wow.

728
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:28.739
She looks really well.

729
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:32.519
He's fine with, like, they're okay.

730
01:01:32.579 --> 01:01:35.219
Like they're okay, but he doesn't want her to see him as an old man.

731
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:36.119
No.

732
01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:37.500
He could watch.

733
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:39.239
Day of the Doctor.

734
01:01:39.300 --> 01:01:43.199
Yeah, basically that's in tailor. not recording them at the same time.

735
01:01:43.260 --> 01:01:44.280
Good God.

736
01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:46.019
Wibbly wobbly.

737
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:55.380
I'd also heard that he gets to the studio 1st and sneaks into one of the booths and insists that she's putting a booth where she has no eyeline with him.

738
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:56.760
Rubs himself all over it.

739
01:01:56.820 --> 01:02:02.760
So I have heard that for some of them they've been in the studio together and talking, but he's just like, no, don't let her see me.

740
01:02:03.420 --> 01:02:05.400
God, that's fantastic.

741
01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:06.960
He's like Shara's Jack.

742
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:08.460
They're doing feud next year.

743
01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:09.360
Did you hear?

744
01:02:09.420 --> 01:02:10.440
Yeah, shooting that.

745
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:13.920
With Tom Baker and Lala Ward season 18.

746
01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:18.900
You know that actually feud is as a concept going to go on with other stories.

747
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:21.960
Yeah, this is only the 1st one.

748
01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:23.699
Charles and Diana.

749
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:24.960
Yeah, Tom and Lala.

750
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:26.039
David Nathan Turner.

751
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:27.179
Yeah, Tom and Lala.

752
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:27.659
Yeah, yeah.

753
01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:28.500
No, truly.

754
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:32.699
Charles and Diana are the next one, yeah. and everyone else.

755
01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:37.019
I was going to say John Wiles, but hey, Janet and Liz.

756
01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:40.679
Janet and everyone else except for Todd, whom she loves.

757
01:02:41.219 --> 01:02:46.019
Deny that. really love Janet.

758
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:48.480
I think we should do it, Janet season. talk about Janet.

759
01:02:48.539 --> 01:02:50.400
Christopher Eccles doing Keith Boke.

760
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:54.179
Christopher Eccleston and eventually everybody's in the production.

761
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:57.059
Except for Camille. we still here?

762
01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:58.199
Yeah, okay.