WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:54:42

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who commentary podcast whose knives are sterilised before sacrifices.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm Todd.

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I'm James.

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James, I thought I told you that you were allowed to be on the podcast.

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Richard cannot join us today.

7
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He has family commitment.

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So he has nominated James in his stead.

9
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So James finally gets to be on an episode of Flight through Entirety, where he's not playing the master.

10
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Oh, are you not playing the master?

11
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And that's the only reason I was prepared to let you in the room.

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No, I am actually going to play the master.

13
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Okay, great.

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Fans of the podcast may have also noted this week that Big Finish have announced the Time Incorporated Masterbox set, which will feature James in adventures based in and around the Matrix after Time Incorporated.

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So today we are watching The Stones of Blood, which was nominated by Richard and Todd as a story.

16
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Um, So yes, your code word, uh, we're currently sitting on the DVD menu of um, the key to time, box set edition of The Stones of Blood, your code word will be Diploss.

17
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So, uh, the next time.

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Sorry.

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The next time you hear me say that word, I would like you to press play.

20
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Are you ready, dear listener?

21
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Diplos.

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And we're off.

23
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Well this is exciting.

24
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I love Mary Tan.

25
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I love this.

26
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No, you don't, tonsure. you don't.

27
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You never stop bad mouthing Mary Tam when you're off mic.

28
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Well, yeah, no, because I met her once.

29
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Did we all meet, sir?

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I certainly know.

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I wasn't at who mentioned too.

32
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She was lovely. was far too young. lovely.

33
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It is kind of heartbreaking.

34
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Let's get it out of the way.

35
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It is heartbreaking that she's no longer with us.

36
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She really was spectacular.

37
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And I think we spent a lot of time praising her ironic detachment and her bravery and having a little sabbatical from acting about you.

38
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I love that that crossfade between the Tartars and that.

39
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And the segments, yeah.

40
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And this very expensive set that we have here.

41
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I loved this set as a kid.

42
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Like it, it, it, just, it, It got across to me the idea that they can just press a few buttons in the console room and this room can be anything.

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I'll just love her. is the 1st time, isn't it?

44
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It's the 1st time that the companion has been just vastly more competent than the doctor.

45
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And I think Tom works that way.

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The same way that Colin does when he's being silly and incompetent as well, when he gets something wrong.

47
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Tom works terrifically well, having both Romanas with him, just because he gets to be the sort of silly anti-establishment one.

48
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He doesn't, you know, he's ostensibly in charge, but he gets someone to kind of rebel against as well, and that suits him perfectly, I think.

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Um, Yeah, now this is our 1st and only story this season set on earth.

50
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Yes.

51
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I love that shot.

52
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It's got footage.

53
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We still managed to get space corridors.

54
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That's true.

55
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And I think, yeah, this would be the 1st story set on Earth since Image of the Fendal.

56
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Okay, so we've had 6 consecutive non-earth stories.

57
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Oh, it's good to come back too.

58
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It does feel very image of the Fendal, doesn't it?

59
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Better than that.

60
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Oh, well, yes.

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Yeah, well, I think I think we discussed at the time on the podcast that, you know, there's 2 stories where Graham Williams does the Hinchcliffe thing of menace in the home counties.

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Or three.

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I mean, I, you know, does there's horror fang rock counts?

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I mean, everyone.

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That's true, I suppose, but that is semi-historical as well.

66
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Whereas Imogen, this are, um, present day, but I suppose, you know, um, Pyramids of Mars was the historical.

67
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People are, people always claim horror of fang rock for Philip Hinchcliffe on the grounds that they can't believe that Graham Williams would produce a good story.

68
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I mean, I really disagree with that.

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I think that's terrible.

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And I think both image of the Fendal, which is not totally successful, and this story, do Hinchcliffe things more interestingly than weekly. and with less sort of dark sort of attitudes and menacing of the companion in a horrific way.

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And they have ladies in them as well.

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Yes, more than one lady.

73
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More than one lady.

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Here's one lady.

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Martha.

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Martha.

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At least one guest lady.

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Not two.

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This one has three, doesn't it?

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Yeah, so it's got Martha and later we'll have, of course, Professor Romilio Rumford and her nipples.

81
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And her sausage sandwich.

82
00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:02.939
And amphibian Fay.

83
00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:13.980
Now, when I was a kid, this is the scene my VHS copy cut in on exactly this shot of the door.

84
00:05:14.339 --> 00:05:16.920
So you thought that's where the toy started?

85
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Well, yeah, it meant until literally until I bought the American DVD set because I'll get into the DVD release in a moment.

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Literally when I bought the American DVD said in 2003, that was the 1st time I saw those opening scenes. love her outfit.

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I do too. and her shoes.

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I love those shoes.

89
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It's actually really, it's actually really quite timeless.

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And like, you know, it doesn't look that sort of 70s.

91
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I mean, the...

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They heard disco stew.

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I forgot about that.

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I want that hat.

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It's very Burberry, isn't it?

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Oh, it is a burberry hat, isn't it?

97
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Where?

98
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The Black Garden or something?

99
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Yeah, I think here, because does she know about the Black Guardian at this point?

100
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No, no, this is where she finds out because she thinks she was sent by the president.

101
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And this is literally the scene where the doctor's explaining that it wasn't the president, who was the white guardian who sent you.

102
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And I think it is about time that we reestablished the premise of the season as well.

103
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Yeah, well, this is mid-season now, so it's a good time to remind us.

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And also of note, this is the 100th Doctor Who story.

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They were going to take a cake out of that fridge.

106
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Yeah, yeah.

107
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I wish the doctor...

108
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There's that cut scene, isn't there?

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from the BBC VG tapes?

110
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Well, I don't think they ever shot it.

111
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Oh, they did.

112
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Okay, because I get, um, the story Daryl Blake tells is they ordered the cake, um, and then didn't get, didn't get to shoot the scene, so everyone just had cake.

113
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Hooray.

114
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But perhaps it was short.

115
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In a prescient march to flight through entirety.

116
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Yeah, that's right.

117
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We're having crisps today in olives rather than cake.

118
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And I bought, I bought a cake.

119
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Oh, we did have carrot cake.

120
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Yes, sorry.

121
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It was ogre themed carrot cake, actually, for those of you at home.

122
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Turn to ashes in your mouth.

123
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And last week when we talked about Dragonfire, of course, Richard made us a lovely lemon poppy seed and gin cake.

124
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Oh, that was so terrific.

125
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Such gin.

126
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So, so cream.

127
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It was a good cake print. 13 out of 10.

128
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Yeah.

129
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Would eat again.

130
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And of course, you know, the benefit of having this limbo set is, you know, you just focus on these 2 completely.

131
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Ah, Kane.

132
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See, I bought it.

133
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I bought it as this is a Noll space.

134
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Yeah, as a kid.

135
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Like I didn't go, oh, they went out of money.

136
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Like they've just hung some black drapes in a studio.

137
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No, it's very well done.

138
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It's very well done.

139
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And yeah, and then we've got this shot of them framed in the door, which... doesn't look like it's in 4 by 3.

140
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No, it looks like it's someone shooting portrait on their iPhone.

141
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Damn it. those people.

142
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Can you not do that?

143
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Have you people never seen a television screen or a cinema screen?

144
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Stop shooting video in portrait, please.

145
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Okay, I work in reality TV.

146
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And so we have contestants auditioning. for shooting their own stuff.

147
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They're given several pages worth of literature saying don't shoot in portrait, at least one in 10.

148
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I don't think they understand what a portrait is.

149
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Oh, another bit of comedy. love this.

150
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Yes.

151
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Back when Doctor Who was fun.

152
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Yeah.

153
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I loved that.

154
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See, if the doctor had kept like a secret like that from the companion, you know, the whole, it wasn't the president was white garden thing, but like, what is it, 12 episodes now or 8 episodes?

155
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12 episodes?

156
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Um, That would have been a huge thing, you know, it would have been a betrayal of trust in the new series.

157
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Love the way he throws that umbrella away.

158
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Little bug.

159
00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:05.220
Actually, no, you're right, James.

160
00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.139
It is 8 episodes because this is the 3rd story.

161
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Oh, and were they all 4 parties?

162
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Until until...

163
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Except for Armadillo, what?

164
00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:15.299
So, yeah.

165
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The armadillo faction.

166
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Yes.

167
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Oh, the K1 robots been through here.

168
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Can I just say that, you know, how fabulous is someone that can just put the heel of their shoe into a ditch like this and work out the massive of a creature or whatever?

169
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Do you think it's a reference?

170
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Do you remember the dandelion in robot where the doctor works out?

171
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How much?

172
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Because of how crushed the dandelion is.

173
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So she's like a version of the doctor who's just vastly more glamorous.

174
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Yeah, yeah.

175
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And you know, she's got her her tracer slash sonic screwdriver.

176
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Yeah.

177
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I love these these long shots of the circle and coming to it.

178
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I think by this time they had stopped running a wire up Mary Tam's leg and down her arm to light up the tracer.

179
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Because you're not gonna see the light on location.

180
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Um, because that's what she said about Ribos operation.

181
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You know, there was this little man running around after her and taping things onto her neck and, you know, uninsulated wires so they were getting hot.

182
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Why didn't they have batteries, for God's sake, in 1970.

183
00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:24.899
And also uninsulated what?

184
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tried to kill her.

185
00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:31.740
Well, sorry, you know, insulated from electricity, but not insulated from heat.

186
00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:36.299
Just like mentioning a bear copper Wyatt running down her arm.

187
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Spark, Spark.

188
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Now, the director Daryl Blake, of course, takes the, it takes the very wise decision here to, um, uh, fill, to shoot everything on video.

189
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So the exteriors are done on video, the internals, the studios are done on video as well because he hated the typical look of film outside and video inside and you get a visually jarring contrast switching between the two, which is tradition for Doctor Who.

190
00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:09.419
And in fact, in this season, in Androids of Tara, that's what they do.

191
00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.460
Yeah, yeah, you get the film.

192
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Here she is.

193
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Until, until, um, Season 23, when it became traditional to use video everywhere, it was just this robot... and... experiment where everything was done on video.

194
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I think I think it actually lends quite a sort of Ethereal, otherworldly quality to the image, because the way the video picks up the brightness of the sky.

195
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I think it looks cheaper, and I think it looks more like children's television, and I think it's a shame.

196
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I don't like the jarring thing as well because it makes it really obvious when we're in the studio and when we aren't.

197
00:11:50.820 --> 00:12:00.419
And here, because you've got nighttime scenes in the circle that are shot in the studio, I think, you know, I have to say, those are pretty convincing, those nighttime scenes.

198
00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:03.419
And only because the daytime scenes are on videotape.

199
00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.779
If they weren't, you would see that, that jarring thing.

200
00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:13.679
And I always, this stuff here, I always think, looks like, um, it's soft focus on purpose for all the cast.

201
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I don't know why.

202
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I always thought that as a kid.

203
00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.600
Well, I think it's, I think it's what James said.

204
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I think it's to give it an ethereal quality and it looks to me like a filter or lens on the camera because the colours are bleeding.

205
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Oh my god.

206
00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:29.639
Oh, that's amazing look from Tom.

207
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God, he looks older than in leisure hive.

208
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She's so funny delivering this.

209
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Like just the way that she does it.

210
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It's like she's reaching into her memory to struggle to remember the line.

211
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You could actually see it visibly coming to the service.

212
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:49.259
Yeah, yeah.

213
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:50.879
She's such, such a good actress.

214
00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.899
And she had such an amazingly fun time working on this show.

215
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You know, famously, she saw John Leeson wander around taking photos.

216
00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:05.940
So gave her, gave him her old Lika camera from 1930 or something like that.

217
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:12.419
Um, but, A, um, a friend of the podcast, and I cannot remember who now, so I do apologise.

218
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:19.200
Discovered that a Christopher Isherwood novel is dedicated to Beatrix Lehman and her husband.

219
00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:20.220
Wow.

220
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:21.659
I don't know which one.

221
00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:22.620
I can't remember that.

222
00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.000
Which husband?

223
00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:26.879
I don't know.

224
00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:32.039
Beatrix Lim, the 1st openly lesbian at this time.

225
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:34.740
She had actually come out at this time, hadn't she?

226
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:35.820
Oh, I didn't realise that.

227
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:36.539
Maybe it's not her husband.

228
00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:37.919
Well, no, no, no.

229
00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:44.700
I think she was married earlier on, but by this point it was in a relationship with a woman.

230
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:48.960
Is she the 1st openly lesbian guest cast member?

231
00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:49.860
I don't.

232
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:51.539
I didn't even know she was.

233
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.720
We had a number of years where they weren't very many...

234
00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:56.639
I could be completely wrong, but I always thought she was lesbian.

235
00:13:56.700 --> 00:13:59.580
Um, I don't know.

236
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:13.559
Susan Engel is just wonderful here in that pink vision and she's just so charming, too suave. you know, you just know there's something not quite right straight away, you know, you can't quite put your finger on it.

237
00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:15.419
I think it's fabulous.

238
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.279
You've got 3 wonderful women characters here with the doctor and you just don't see that.

239
00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:20.759
No.

240
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:23.100
It's it's so refreshing.

241
00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:28.799
It is one of my favourite classic series stories probably because of the strength of female guest cast.

242
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:32.700
I just love Ramana with her shoes.

243
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.220
So, so Nathan, you're going to the UK next, aren't you?

244
00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:39.539
Yes.

245
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:46.440
You should go to the national portrait gallery because there are 12 portraits of Beatrix Lehman in the national portrait gallery.

246
00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:49.139
But they probably went to, you take photos of them.

247
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.340
Not even selfies with them. wouldn't that be great?

248
00:14:53.820 --> 00:14:56.460
Hanging with Professor Rumford.

249
00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:03.720
I would like a hat like that.

250
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:05.820
Typical man.

251
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:11.279
Let's come back to my house with some sausage sandwiches.

252
00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:13.139
And a little bit something more.

253
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.759
But she's still a bit less lazy than Juno Watt to face from canine and company.

254
00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:18.779
Oh, yes, yes, yes.

255
00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.940
Yeah, the poor man's Susan Engel.

256
00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:21.360
Correct.

257
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.759
Yeah, there is something terribly light and fun about this, isn't there?

258
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:33.600
Does any, you know, any story with Tommy gomping around the countryside.

259
00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:37.919
And, you know, there's very few people you can describe as yomping, but I think Tom Baker is definitely one of them.

260
00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.039
Um, Here we are.

261
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:46.559
In Christopher Ashwood's diaries, Issuwood describes meeting Mick Jagger, the Australian outback, where he was filming Ned Kelly.

262
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:52.919
Mick Jagger, very pale, quiet, good tempered, full of fun, ugly, beautiful, a bit like Beatrix Lehman.

263
00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.480
I think Beatrix Leyman is more beautiful, ugly, isn't she?

264
00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:07.379
Well, I actually think that probably Mick Jagger would be indistinguishable from Beatrix Lehman, like in a police lineup by this stage.

265
00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:09.600
Despite the fact he's a lot younger.

266
00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:12.480
Probably not by now.

267
00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:13.740
No, no, no, no.

268
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:14.759
I meant back then.

269
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:15.179
Okay.

270
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.659
Yeah, so here we are in the studio.

271
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.080
Is he about to put out this rather poorly?

272
00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:27.240
Like, you know, when he's put the lid on it, sort of...

273
00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:30.419
Yeah, it's almost like he's an actor who doesn't want to burn his hand off.

274
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:31.799
Caliak.

275
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:33.659
Caliak.

276
00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:37.019
Don't you know?

277
00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:40.379
And that's about as much as we can get away with without being sued by apples.

278
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:41.159
Oh, sorry.

279
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:46.080
So these 2 are terrible, aren't they?

280
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:50.340
Oh, I think he's a bit over the top, but I really like her.

281
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:52.379
No, I'm not going to leave you.

282
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:58.259
Sorry, I'm sure that one of the worst decisions made by a supporting character in the history of the show.

283
00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.759
It's like, no, really you can.

284
00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:04.259
I really like this shot.

285
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.839
Look at that, isn't that spectacular?

286
00:17:06.900 --> 00:17:08.940
That gate just looks terrific.

287
00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:16.319
The, um, that reminds me, like, I always, I always thought this scene was in, um, image of Fendal.

288
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:17.880
I always matched the 2 of them together.

289
00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:20.400
Is there another scene in image of the pendal with him walking down the street?

290
00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:22.200
Like past a wall.

291
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.140
Yes, yes, when he's on his way to the priory.

292
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.559
Is this the same place as Seeds of Doom?

293
00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:31.920
Like, like, that just reminds me of them going inside.

294
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:34.140
I'm being reminded of it as well.

295
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:36.539
Like all of them have the big old Gothic house.

296
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:38.819
It's a kind of, it's a sort of Avengers style thing.

297
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.319
It's a true?

298
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:40.920
Yeah, yeah.

299
00:17:40.980 --> 00:18:03.480
It is definitely an Avengers trope, like possibly the easiest to find example of it is one of the very early colour episodes from Venus with Love, which features John Pertwee as an old, as an old army man, and he's recording his memoirs, and he's surrounded by these record players to play the sound effects, but he's in a big country house.

300
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:04.500
Right, yeah.

301
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.200
That's not the only one that pert is in.

302
00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:09.240
Is he in the hidden tiger or did I dream that?

303
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.299
No, no, he's not in the hidden tiger.

304
00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:13.799
Ronny Barker's in the Hidden Tiger.

305
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:14.039
Really?

306
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:14.519
Yeah.

307
00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:16.619
But no, Pertwi's only in one.

308
00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:17.220
Okay.

309
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:21.180
And, um, he is the only doctor who appears in an Avengers episode.

310
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:22.500
Doesn't dr never appear?

311
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:23.039
No.

312
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:25.680
Um, Anika Wills?

313
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.000
is into Avengers episodes?

314
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:33.359
Um, But I think that's also it for Doctor Who companions.

315
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:45.900
It's an interesting shot, this one, because when I watch it and when I watch as a kid, Your eye is drawn to those 3 missing portraits, which of course will come into play later.

316
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.180
It's actually quite good, isn't it?

317
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:52.380
I quite like the window as well.

318
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.740
It's very rare to have windows in shot and they don't look terrible.

319
00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:04.799
Now, I'm going to ask James directly because I have a feeling Nathan and Todd, you may not remember it.

320
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:08.220
James, do you remember the ghosts of Motley Hall?

321
00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:09.779
Yes.

322
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:11.339
Very vaguely.

323
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.299
Very vaguely.

324
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:13.019
That's the thing.

325
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.680
As a kid, these Doctor Who stories in old houses reminded me of that.

326
00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:19.079
It was this old house haunted by all these ghosts.

327
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:29.759
It was kind of like a British version of Casper because they were friendly ghosts and they, um, I think the family who lived there were trying to sell the house and the kid didn't want to move, so the ghosts helped the kid.

328
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:31.619
Was it Cosgrove Hall series?

329
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.059
I think it was, but live action.

330
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.079
Yeah, yeah.

331
00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:34.440
Yeah.

332
00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:38.039
Like it kind of reminds me of things like Billy Webb.

333
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:39.599
Do you remember Billy Webb?

334
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.640
Terrible, terrible kids TV show from the late 80s, early 90s.

335
00:19:46.019 --> 00:19:49.259
That a child with a watch that could turn back time.

336
00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:50.039
Oh, right.

337
00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:52.319
Bit like Hermione.

338
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:54.359
Yes, yes.

339
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:57.839
I'm surprised they didn't sue Shay K. Rowling.

340
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:02.819
What, like go back in time using the watch and then sue J.K. Rowling.

341
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.579
Now, I just, no, because it was made before JK.

342
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:06.599
I do Potter.

343
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:13.799
I do like the way Mr. DeFreece just drops in doctor into the conversation, having actually never been introduced to the doctor.

344
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:16.259
Because the raven told him.

345
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:17.579
Is it a crow?

346
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:18.480
Raven. same thing.

347
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:20.279
That's what I...

348
00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:26.640
It used to really get to me as it's like when I watched this as a kid, like, you know, that's you can't have that, but now I think it's just a bit of fun.

349
00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:27.119
It's nice.

350
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:33.900
I think they are crows because Vivian identifies them as crows shortly, I think.

351
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:50.160
Um, And just, you know, the way this shot is composed as well, just then you had, Well, here, you've got a really strong triangle in the frame of the 3 women and they're in a similar colour palette.

352
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:51.960
They're all wearing shades of pink.

353
00:20:52.019 --> 00:21:03.059
Um, Professor Rumford under her, under her coat, but it ties them together and kind of emphasises how strong this story is for women characters.

354
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.299
Apart from DeFreece's lover.

355
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:08.880
That's true I suppose, yeah.

356
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:19.920
But, you know, at the moment, we're meant to believe that Professor Romford and Vivian Faye are on the doctor and Romana's side and the other side is DeFries and Marfa.

357
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.400
Yeah.

358
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:23.460
It is a big fake out, this story, isn't it?

359
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:24.839
I mean, I guess we'll talk more about it.

360
00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:27.299
As the best Doctor Who stories are, really.

361
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:27.779
Yeah.

362
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.759
Well, they trained those birds, like the shots that they're doing?

363
00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:34.440
They went to Rada, darling.

364
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:37.980
How do you know that Crow went to Rada?

365
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:38.640
He tells you.

366
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.220
I'm just interested.

367
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:42.660
Welcome to the podcast.

368
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.619
It just looks like, you know what I mean?

369
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.420
They're on the stones and that sort of thing.

370
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:49.619
Do they just take advantages of them?

371
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.039
know.

372
00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:53.099
Well, um, crows and ravens are very intelligent birds.

373
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.339
So they're easier to train than, say, pigeons or parrots.

374
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.500
You don't think they stapled them to the stones.

375
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.339
No, I don't think so.

376
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:04.859
I mean, you know, that being said, parrots are very intelligent as well, but I think crows are a bit more wilful.

377
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:13.799
There's been all these studies done where crows will be able to figure out, for instance, you know, if they're given 3 switches, which each give them a different amount of seed.

378
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:17.819
It only takes them about 5 minutes to figure out which switch gives them the most amount of seed.

379
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:19.500
And just go straight for that.

380
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:24.960
Yeah, a crow is actually intelligent enough to have script edited Doctor Who for 5 years. you know that?

381
00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:26.579
At FCE Hoo Fax.

382
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:31.200
What, between 1981 and 1986?

383
00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:32.579
Oh, okay.

384
00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:35.640
Someone's smoking.

385
00:22:35.700 --> 00:22:36.720
Why is he smoking?

386
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:38.700
Well, this is evil.

387
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:43.259
Actually, now we can say it was because he's evil back then it's just like, eh, no, that's what people did.

388
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.180
It doesn't happen very often in Doctor Who.

389
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:45.900
No, that's true.

390
00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:50.460
And generally, it's evil or suspicious looking characters that do it as well.

391
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:58.200
Although those people in Resurrection of the Daleks are smoking just because I think, say you would think it's good.

392
00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:03.240
Like sand in uncomfortable places.

393
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.059
The where, the raven, all the crowd.

394
00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.940
Oh, that's a nice thing.

395
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:10.740
So it's a raven or a crow.

396
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:11.700
It is.

397
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:23.160
So, um, the exterior location we were talking about earlier is uh, the Reid Business School in um, in uh, Little Compton, Warwickshire.

398
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.680
Was it even then?

399
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.660
Oh, that's what it was then, yes.

400
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:28.680
And whack.

401
00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:29.400
Here we go.

402
00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:32.819
Probably being converted into a stately home or something now.

403
00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:37.319
I think I think keeping focus on the face is a good thing. blood is warm.

404
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:38.039
I know what to do.

405
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:54.240
You see, here, you see, so, so, the evil, uh, uh, big in phase had to come back up to the house just for that one. to nip in, be evil, then that changed, go back, prepare some sausage sandwiches.

406
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:54.900
Yes.

407
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.400
I went I went to outpost-gunner for once and somebody was walking around in a costume like that.

408
00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:00.720
Like was that good?

409
00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.519
Oh, you mean Gallifrey won?

410
00:24:02.579 --> 00:24:04.319
Oh, sorry, app was going.

411
00:24:04.380 --> 00:24:04.859
What am I saying?

412
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:05.640
Can I pray one, yes?

413
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:06.420
the same thing.

414
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.319
Sorry.

415
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:11.640
Oh, a man is going for a stroll.

416
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:25.380
Now, this is this is the moment, of course, where Tom refused to appear physically because he didn't want the doctor to be a symbol of danger for children, which I kind of understand.

417
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:31.259
And as a child, this, that made, that made the scene all the freakier because I got that Romana could see something I couldn't see.

418
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:32.099
Did you?

419
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:32.579
I didn't.

420
00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:33.059
No.

421
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.440
I had no idea what was going on.

422
00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:36.779
Yeah, it renders this scene incomprehensible.

423
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:50.400
And it is almost certainly because just Tom was being a dick. and refusing to cooperate because he was quite happy to lunge at Princess Strella's android with a big sword, you know, you know, the following story.

424
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:51.180
That's true.

425
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:51.599
That is true.

426
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:53.940
I read it in the same way as Brendan.

427
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:55.680
I just didn't get it.

428
00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:02.700
It was only, as I got older, that I worked out, but now Mary Thames, just seeing the script for timelash.

429
00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:07.319
And that drop was about a metre.

430
00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.079
She's not a great screamer.

431
00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:13.740
No, but that's good. we want to. to be a good screamer.

432
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:16.619
Yeah, see, in 2 stories time in Power of Crawl.

433
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:21.299
She's going to give a traditional Doctor Who scream of just, I'm going to hit a musical note.

434
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:24.779
Whereas that was a guttural, I'm about to die square.

435
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:26.519
That's a realistic scream.

436
00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:33.960
It's like when the very rare occasions where Nissa screams, you know, it's a proper from the diaphragm.

437
00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:34.859
I'm actually terrified.

438
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:35.460
Yeah.

439
00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:38.339
Well, it's a scream in context.

440
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:40.980
It's not just a scream because I'm a doctor who go and I have to scream.

441
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.259
It's a scream because she's actually scared.

442
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:45.059
It's believable.

443
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:53.099
But I agree with you, Todd, in that the scream and the power of Kroll that she does at the end of episode one is one of the worst screams ever in Doctor.

444
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:54.599
Mary's not a screamer.

445
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.140
She's no.

446
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:56.640
Well, that's the point of her.

447
00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:57.839
You know, it...

448
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.819
That's the end of the power of crawl.

449
00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:08.759
All right, Luke, how are we watching about, of course?

450
00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:12.539
Little, do you know that that's actually Tom screaming?

451
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:23.579
See, I still, like, in this day and age, they could have got away with, like it was done now, Tom could have been, like, sort of see-through or some sort of effect to make it seem.

452
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:26.160
But back then it would he would have physically had to have been there.

453
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:33.119
So I kind of understand that he didn't want to see the doctor doing damage to his companion, but, um, you know, I have to give it to Romana here.

454
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.779
She hangs onto this cliff edge, like, you know, there's no tomorrow.

455
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:45.720
If anybody's actually seen, um, the new Wonder Woman movie, it reminds me of a moment in Wonder Woman, where, but I'll just say nothing more.

456
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:47.400
Thank you. not seen it yet.

457
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:51.359
I'm hoping it's a very good film apart from the last 15 minutes.

458
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:55.680
I'm hoping to go see it tomorrow, but it's a battle of wills.

459
00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:58.440
I want to see Wonder Woman 1st and Rod wants to see the mummy first.

460
00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:03.779
Watch the mummy 1st because then you can build to Wonder Woman because it's actually worth watching.

461
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:06.900
No, no, I don't like this only just now, Martha.

462
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:07.859
Like, you know?

463
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.920
No, it was chicken in the 1st episode, you know.

464
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:13.799
She was expressing reservations earlier, wasn't she?

465
00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:21.119
I think that that's her one character note is that she's actually like realises this is all really rather silly.

466
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:21.900
Yeah, yeah.

467
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.619
She was just in it for the shiny cloaks and now they're trying to cut this guy's throat, you know.

468
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:26.519
Space stewards.

469
00:27:26.579 --> 00:27:27.720
The space drugs.

470
00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:29.640
It is kind of weird.

471
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:31.980
It's some, you know what?

472
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.279
I think it's the same kind of material they use for front tacks, your projection.

473
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:37.319
That's what I was thinking You know, when they shine a light into it.

474
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.180
So goodness knows why they don't.

475
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.759
Oh, the CSA's a great thing.

476
00:27:41.819 --> 00:27:49.559
Yeah, and of course, you know, at the same time, this was on as a kid, when I was a kid, postcards from the edge was broadcast on television.

477
00:27:49.619 --> 00:28:00.420
So there's that scene where, um, is it Meryl Streep in postcards, the Edge of Glen, Meryl Street is hanging off the side of a building, a director calls cut, and she just sort of shrugs and lifts her.

478
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:05.279
So I've always found that scene vaguely comical.

479
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:14.640
That being said, the actual cliffhanger where she falls off is much like Dragonfire last week, one of the moments I could not watch as a kid and I had to leave the room.

480
00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:16.140
That's great.

481
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.599
For different reasons from Dragonflower.

482
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.720
So here is a day for night filming?

483
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:23.099
Well, that's the studio.

484
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:25.259
Oh, I know that, but the shopping...

485
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:26.039
Yes, stay for night.

486
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.819
I really like it.

487
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.079
It's like dusk.

488
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:29.519
I really like the day for night in this.

489
00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:32.220
And they have that establishing shot of it being dusk.

490
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:35.039
It's like, you know, it establishes.

491
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.259
It's just after the sun is falling.

492
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:39.299
What are you doing?

493
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:40.740
Well, I just tied myself to a rock.

494
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:41.579
Exactly.

495
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:44.819
Well, that's the thing.

496
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.559
She's an academic. all of this.

497
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:47.759
Yes, that's right.

498
00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:49.799
How did you manage that, doctor?

499
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:56.220
You know, it, I reckon if Beatrix was still alive.

500
00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:00.059
And of course, she was, what, in her 60s here, I think?

501
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:01.799
Possibly 70s.

502
00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:03.000
I reckon.

503
00:29:03.059 --> 00:29:03.299
Yeah.

504
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:08.759
I reckon if Beatrix was still alive, big finish would have had her back by now to work with Tom.

505
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:09.779
With her own spinoff series.

506
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:15.599
Well, even just with Tom, because, I mean, Tom talks on the commentary that he adored, of course.

507
00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:16.380
Yeah, of course.

508
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:21.059
Yes, grit your teeth, Mary.

509
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:30.720
I think I kind of liking that saying, yes, she's worried she's hanging on the cyberclip, but also, oh, this is getting terribly boring. tedious, friend in one that's...

510
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:34.559
She's rather attractive.

511
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:35.519
She's lost on the moor.

512
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:38.759
James has just found a glamour shot of Beryl Reed.

513
00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:40.019
I'm guessing from the 40s.

514
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:42.180
Lehman.

515
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:46.019
All our fabulous, older women in Doctor...

516
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:47.339
She looks like Greta Garbo.

517
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.019
Oh, she was fantastic, doesn't she?

518
00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:51.720
Shoes are important people.

519
00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:53.880
So I was just trying to find out what her age was.

520
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.940
She died in in July 1979.

521
00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:00.000
Only the following year. year after this.

522
00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:01.980
Is the last thing?

523
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.920
Yeah, maybe he or she would have been about 75 then.

524
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:07.500
You're a genius.

525
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:10.799
So she was 75.

526
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:20.640
I like I do like the way David Fisher uses K9 in his story. like, you know, it's not, he's not necessarily with them here, but then he's called into action.

527
00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:21.480
Yeah.

528
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:29.759
Even the way that he, I know this is controversial on the podcast, but the way that he writes him out of the leisure hive, I actually quite like.

529
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:37.619
Well, also, you have to remember with the leisure hype, that was very heavily rewritten to suit the new production team as well.

530
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:38.819
Who buy?

531
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:44.579
By David Fisher, but also by a patron of the podcast, Christopher Hamilton bit me.

532
00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:48.599
Talented man who should have been script editor for a lot longer.

533
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:51.359
Well, we were talking to him about...

534
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:51.839
Yeah, yeah.

535
00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:58.920
He said that we should get a Kickstarter happening and raise enough money for him to hop into the TARDIS go back in time and do it.

536
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:00.720
And I'd like to support that.

537
00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:04.440
So we'll put a link in the show notes to the Kickstarter page.

538
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:05.880
No, we won't.

539
00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:13.680
I think what also helps with the day for night filming here is they try not to show the sky because that's the giveaway in day for night filming.

540
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:14.279
Okay.

541
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:17.940
But yeah, that's what makes it more effective.

542
00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:23.099
And getting back to what you were saying, Todd, about the way David Fisher uses K9.

543
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:28.200
I'm laughing because it's always like, let's get on the railway track.

544
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:29.700
He's not getting direction.

545
00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:31.740
He's doing a 15 point turn.

546
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:32.460
Here we go.

547
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:33.000
Here we go.

548
00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:35.579
And onto the duckboards.

549
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:39.900
We're about to go...

550
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.480
It's such a terrible prop.

551
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:50.099
But David Fisher is very conscious to not just to use K9 as a gun.

552
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.619
You know, he tracks Romana here.

553
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:54.839
He tracks Romana in the androids of Tara.

554
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.299
He's familiar with boats.

555
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:59.460
He knows nothing about tennis.

556
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:04.140
But he does he does know all about hyperspace and how to explain it.

557
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.480
I mean, who does understand I Spain?

558
00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:07.619
I do, shut up.

559
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.539
I'm not giving you a second chance.

560
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.799
Oh, I love Romana.

561
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.119
There was a rope built into his scarf for the scene.

562
00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:15.720
Oh really?

563
00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:16.859
Yeah, it's behind the scarf.

564
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:27.720
Because, you know, by this point, the scarf is horribly moth eaten and patched up and what have you, you can pause the DVDs at certain points and he has little tart.

565
00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:28.799
Oh, bad, bad, bad.

566
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:29.460
Yeah, shot.

567
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:36.660
Yeah, this is a bad, um, and it's kind of the thing of, and it's, it's still the same tracking down um, archive footage.

568
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.980
Um, At this point, it would have been even harder.

569
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:46.920
He would have just, Daryl Blake would have just sent him for archive footage of, you know, a twilight skyline.

570
00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:48.720
And if this is what they send back to him.

571
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:49.740
That's what he got.

572
00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:50.700
That's what he got.

573
00:32:50.759 --> 00:33:00.420
You did not have time to then do it, which is why he frames the setting sun behind the actors heads as much as possible to try and disguise it.

574
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.480
You can see that he's like trying to use it as little as possible.

575
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:04.500
Yeah, yeah.

576
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:13.680
And of course, it's from this story and several shots of Tom without his scarf that Daypole had their image references.

577
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:14.819
Oh, really?

578
00:33:14.819 --> 00:33:21.059
To make their Tom Baker action figure, which is why it doesn't come with a scarf because they weren't sent photos of him with a scarf.

579
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:23.700
And who knew that Tom Baker's doctor wore a scarf?

580
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.019
Oh, day poll.

581
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:28.200
And I actually love this...

582
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:30.180
I just love it.

583
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:31.859
I think it's her best hair.

584
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.259
Oh, I was about to say, I love her hair down.

585
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:40.440
I have to say, I think my favourite hairstyle for this season is actually from the Armageddon factor.

586
00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:42.299
Oh, that's pretty German too.

587
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:46.740
But I love this as a sort of day-to-day outfit.

588
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:52.140
I love the frock. and there's kind of a green petticoat under it. which you get a bit of a flash off occasionally.

589
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:55.859
Um, you know, just as a, just as a um, contrast in colour.

590
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:56.339
It's lovely.

591
00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:59.160
This is another great scene of comedy.

592
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:03.299
And some fabulous acting there for Mary.

593
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:03.779
Look at her.

594
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.759
You can tell exactly what she's thinking.

595
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:08.639
I am...

596
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:31.559
I recently re-listened to the Auntie Matter, which is the 1st Mary Tam, Big Finish Tom story, and it was released posthumously, and in the special features, David Richardson, the producer says, you know, Mary wasn't Welsh. when she was recording these, but she was determined to do the 72 parters.

597
00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:36.000
And that's interspersed with a lovely interview from Mary herself talking about how much she loves Doctor Who.

598
00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:40.199
She's so good in those audios. those audios are fantastic.

599
00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:42.179
I actually don't have that 1st one.

600
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:44.159
I've got all the rest, but I've got to listen to it.

601
00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:46.199
See, and this is just wonderful.

602
00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:50.340
The framing of all of these actors, the doctor and Romana and canine, and now these two.

603
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.280
I think he's doing a great job.

604
00:34:53.340 --> 00:35:07.139
He puts, yeah, he puts such thought into his composition of shots, which wasn't always a priority for Doctor Who directors because they're working on multicam. for the very small budget. time.

605
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.000
Let's just join.

606
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:10.860
What's that, darling?

607
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.360
What's that?

608
00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:18.480
Actually, that's what I would like to answer that, but I'm not allowed to because there's not supposed to be an innuendo at this podcast.

609
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:21.480
Oh dear, I didn't think of it that way ever.

610
00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:23.159
Is that what Vivian was after?

611
00:35:23.219 --> 00:35:24.360
Yes.

612
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.900
You can use it to shine your shoes.

613
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:30.059
Vivian, not Surfing.

614
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:31.619
Does it pay your potatoes and things?

615
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.440
Look, I think it's a sonic potato peeler.

616
00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:35.280
So clever.

617
00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:36.239
That shot again.

618
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:38.340
Yeah, you can see all their faces, can't you, Todd?

619
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:40.559
Everyone's acting and everyone's reacting. wonderful.

620
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:48.539
But also too descript, like, the doctor knows there's something wrong and he knows that it's not Amelia.

621
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:54.119
Like he suspects Vivian, but without really giving the game away.

622
00:35:54.179 --> 00:35:55.260
Yeah, yeah.

623
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:56.219
Come on, girls.

624
00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:03.059
I think David Fisher is like an unsung hero of the Williams era.

625
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.820
And you know what, especially of women?

626
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:12.659
Like, even the next story, which only has one speaking female character, aside from Romana.

627
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.920
Madame Larmia is a really well drawn character and a tragic character.

628
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:20.159
Goddess of mercy.

629
00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:21.539
She's not happy.

630
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.320
It's not your week. mercy on us.

631
00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:26.219
Stop acting.

632
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:28.260
Oh my god.

633
00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:36.840
I don't think we agreed with about this, did we, Brandon, but these giant glowing fibreglass turds are ridiculous.

634
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:38.159
I like them.

635
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:39.300
I think they're fantastic.

636
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.420
I want I want these to come back.

637
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:46.739
I actually want them to be able to levitate like and actually get into 2nd floors.

638
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.920
So I actually do want the ogry back.

639
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:52.920
And to horrifically drain people's life energy.

640
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:53.760
Yeah.

641
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:03.480
If they did come back, I would like them to appear as per David Fisher's original idea, which is they are stones, which then morph into bipedal rock people.

642
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:06.179
Yeah, see that would have been cool, but we're too cheap to do that.

643
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:07.739
Yeah, and, you know, you know what?

644
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:11.099
I think for the extra amount of money it would have cost.

645
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.380
This is still effective.

646
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.199
You know, and you've got to decide where you're spending the money.

647
00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.539
I love how he covers canine's eyes, so he doesn't.

648
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:21.840
But it also draws your attention away from that body that's there.

649
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:23.400
Oh, and his blood and stuff.

650
00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:23.699
Yeah.

651
00:37:23.699 --> 00:37:24.239
Yeah.

652
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:30.480
And, you know, he's he's really actually quite well contorted himself into what looks like a slightly unnatural angle.

653
00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:33.119
Oh, I think it's Zanium.

654
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:35.340
Heaven help us.

655
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.880
Yeah, she's got a bit of a temper on her.

656
00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:40.860
Like, you know, failer and...

657
00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:42.599
It's real Maconite, you know?

658
00:37:42.659 --> 00:37:44.639
Yeah, yeah.

659
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.039
It just came canine, a helping hand, as you do.

660
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.440
Yep, position K9 for the next shot.

661
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:58.980
You know, if there wasn't a recording break there, I do wonder if a stage hand quickly runs in and moves, K died like 2 extra feet.

662
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:06.300
I think it just looks like Harrison Chase's place after one of his really more extravagant parties, don't you?

663
00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:09.840
after he's been playing all night in his ring cathedral.

664
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:12.300
Someone ate a cucumber and it just wasn't pretty after that.

665
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:23.760
Next thing you'll be saying, like, you know, we'll see some sort of comedy movie with the dead body and Harrison and his butler will be having to card it around. weekend with DeFreeze.

666
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:28.380
Oh dear.

667
00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:33.420
Now, I found I actually found those things really scary.

668
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:37.860
You know, um, as a kid, that's the stones, like, we did.

669
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:39.659
I think it's also the heartbeat sound.

670
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:42.599
Yeah, I think the sound is...

671
00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:44.880
Because it's a primeval sound.

672
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:52.199
You know, it's the same reason that most people when they hear a baby crying will feel uneasy and feel distressed because we're genetically hardwired.

673
00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:53.699
Yeah, program for it.

674
00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:54.119
Yeah.

675
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:58.619
Um, and, you know, so also low sounds.

676
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:03.539
Yes, it sounds like a heartbeat, but it also sounds like an animal growling.

677
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:05.039
Sausage sandwiches.

678
00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:09.239
I use that in a Doctor Who charades thing once as an object.

679
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:11.880
It was Vivian face sausage sandwiches.

680
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:13.019
I love this.

681
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:13.980
I love sausage sand.

682
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:15.780
That's what we should have called the podcast.

683
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:19.320
The only thing better than a sausage sandwich is curried sausage.

684
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.320
That's so lucky euphemism.

685
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:33.719
It wasn't, it wasn't, and I think during this scene, for sausage sandwiches, we should give a shout out to friend of the podcast, who were Pete on Twitter, who is a massive fan of The Stones of Blood.

686
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:36.059
I think it may actually be his favourite Doctor Who story.

687
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.039
He's a man of rare taste.

688
00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:39.300
Good taste, yeah.

689
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:49.139
He actually has this great, It almost a reaction GIF coming up from this scene where Vivian gives kind of gives Romana side eye about her theories.

690
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.119
I'll point it out when we get there, which shot.

691
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:58.980
Um, but yeah, I love the fact that while the doctor's off getting knocked out, it's the 3 women who are working on the mystery.

692
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.599
And not talking about him.

693
00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:03.239
Yeah, and again, the companion is getting...

694
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:05.039
Oh, except for that.

695
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:06.599
Wonderful line.

696
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:09.000
And 10 maybe 8.

697
00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:16.440
But the fact that Romana is investigating, again, which we'll do next week as well, and another David Fisher script is just delightful.

698
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:18.599
What else did he do?

699
00:40:18.659 --> 00:40:19.739
He did leisure high.

700
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:20.219
Did he?

701
00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:21.239
What did he do the following year?

702
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:22.079
from the pit.

703
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:23.760
See, that's great as well.

704
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:24.659
It's this shot.

705
00:40:27.179 --> 00:40:30.480
Oh, yes.

706
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:33.960
Oh, yes.

707
00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:36.659
Oh, I think I need to make that into a gift.

708
00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:40.980
But yeah, so he this is his 1st Doctor Who story.

709
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:48.780
And then he was very quickly asked to write Androids of Tara, which was a replacement script for another story that fell through.

710
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:55.260
Uh, he then he did write a um, a plot outline for what became City of Death.

711
00:40:55.380 --> 00:40:57.360
I think he did, I thought he did more than that.

712
00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:00.179
I think he actually did a script and then they had to rewrote it without the casino.

713
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:01.320
Maybe I'm wrong.

714
00:41:01.380 --> 00:41:02.460
Maybe he did do a full script.

715
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:07.500
And he did creature from the pit, and then, of course, he did the leisure hive.

716
00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:08.760
Which, yeah, was.

717
00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:10.139
Yeah, had all the jokes taken out.

718
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:10.860
Yeah.

719
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:16.380
You know, I think, you know, he did do a script for Christopher Bidmead, who then wrote it again.

720
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:22.559
So there was a script he did for Graham Williams, then a version he did for Bidmead and J and T, which changed before it made the screen again.

721
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:29.219
I think Bidmead has actually said that it was a mistake to take all of the jokes or quite so many of the jokes out of Fisher's script.

722
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.199
But that's only because it was the 1st one.

723
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:32.519
They were reacting against that.

724
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:37.079
Yeah, you know, even so, it's still got like Leisurehive still has humour in it.

725
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:39.179
I think it's spectacular. like it a lot.

726
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:43.139
Yeah, Paul, Paul love it, Bickford, though, and the BBCs.

727
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.260
Understandable policy on...

728
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:48.300
Here we go.

729
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:49.260
Yes, I'll come back to that.

730
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:51.000
Hooray.

731
00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:52.320
Oh, yes.

732
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:56.159
Who in America is getting arrested so carrying an offensive weapon, for God's sake.

733
00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:58.199
What's the 1970s?

734
00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:01.559
Well, okay, I was I was talking about a friend of mine before we started recording.

735
00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:06.179
She's a lady in my wrestling club and maybe going to the Commonwealth Games.

736
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.880
She grew up in Australia and America.

737
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:24.179
And because she has jujitsu training in several other forms of martial arts, If she is tacked in America, And defends herself, she can be countersued for assaulting someone with a dangerous weapon.

738
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.659
If you have that kind of training and then the only...

739
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:28.679
She is the dangerous weapon.

740
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:30.360
Yeah, well, actually, you know what?

741
00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:31.559
Yes, I have never won.

742
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:33.119
I've never won. pinned her.

743
00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:34.920
I have never won a wrestling doubt against her.

744
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:35.400
She is amazing.

745
00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:40.139
Now, all of this bits and pieces and shredded paper.

746
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:43.800
Yeah, it's a bit, you know, unconvincing.

747
00:42:43.860 --> 00:42:48.000
I was really disturbed by this as a kid because of course I loved K9.

748
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:51.539
Yeah, and so, you know, it's practically canine having his gut spilled out.

749
00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:54.119
Oh, I know this where he says, you know, leave me.

750
00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:57.119
And then they cannibalise me for spare parts.

751
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.840
Yeah, and then they walk away and kind of talk about, you know, putting him to sleep and things.

752
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.219
Oh, here we go.

753
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:04.199
It'll be all right, listeners, by the way.

754
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:09.780
And you can tell it's the empty prop canine because he's got the yellow tartan collar.

755
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:12.900
Whereas the real canine has the red and green tartan collar.

756
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.480
I don't know why they did 2 different ones.

757
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:19.079
If it was just a matter of on the studio floor, we need to make sure we grab the right one.

758
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:25.619
So whenever you see anyone logging canine around, it's usually the yellow one.

759
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:29.039
I like these little... tits they have.

760
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:31.860
Yeah, the little technical stuff, which never sounds stupid.

761
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.880
It's never like an 80s style techno babble thing.

762
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:40.739
But I like how they sort of look off the camera to one side and like they're still talking to each other like it's, it's, yes.

763
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:46.619
Tom also seems to be aware in this scene that his hair's getting slightly too long because he's had to push it out of his eyes twice.

764
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:50.159
Mind you, it's not as bad as when Colin Baker gets along.

765
00:43:50.219 --> 00:43:51.480
Or is he just doing a hair flip?

766
00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:54.000
He's whipping his hair back and forth.

767
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:57.840
There we go again..

768
00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:05.579
So my recent sort of blood tests actually show that I'm actually a little bit low on globulin.

769
00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:11.760
So I did explain to the doctor that I wasn't so worried about that because it would make me less vulnerable to it.

770
00:44:11.820 --> 00:44:12.719
I agree, it's wrong.

771
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.059
They'd go for they'd go for Tom, probably.

772
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.159
Maybe we should give you some variety.

773
00:44:17.219 --> 00:44:19.920
I'm really unimpressed by these comments.

774
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:22.260
I'm still getting over the Twitter comments from yesterday.

775
00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:24.539
Oh, here she is.

776
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:25.619
This is like hilarious.

777
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:27.239
Oh, is that Martha?

778
00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:30.300
Oh, it's yeah, yeah, that's Martha and DeFreece.

779
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:39.900
Um, and the script specifies, and you can kind of make it out that um, pretty much their heads are smashed.

780
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.300
I was about to say, if you're globally and deficient, does that make you one of the stones of blood and we can't touch you?

781
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:47.639
Yeah, it may in fact be unwise.

782
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:49.980
This is why we've never been allowed to touch Nathan.

783
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:51.119
But I do have that.

784
00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:58.500
I do love the fact, James, that, um, like she has to get dressed up in all this paraphernalia just to do her little ceremony.

785
00:44:58.559 --> 00:44:59.880
Like, do you know what I mean?

786
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:01.079
Like, just don't know who she is.

787
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:02.940
I have to put this on.

788
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:05.340
Despite the fact that there's no one around.

789
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.099
There's only 2 dead people and some oak creeps.

790
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:09.000
But you know what it is?

791
00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:16.079
It's the whole Midsomer Murders thing or if you come across someone in a stone circle and they're just dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, you're going to say, what are you doing here?

792
00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:20.400
If you come across someone in a stone circle and they're dressed in some ridiculous queen of the mayout.

793
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:22.860
It's a local festival.

794
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:24.420
Of death.

795
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.860
It's the festival. the festival of the Bergeracs or something, you know.

796
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:34.380
There is a trope, isn't there, that you go off and you get dressed up in your evil outfit.

797
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.139
You know, like Barusa does that in 5 doctors.

798
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:44.880
He goes off, puts his evil gloves on, moves some people around, then gets his coronet of bastard...

799
00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:49.500
And of course, Sir Eric Roberts.

800
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:50.699
Yes, dressing for the occasion.

801
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:51.960
I love that outfit.

802
00:45:52.019 --> 00:46:05.760
I think in Assassin too, Caroline Holdaway in Assassin, uh, uh, who gets dressed up, who gets fabulous makeup and stuff done and then uh, and does her hair and then menaces Avon.

803
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:14.880
I really love this, the fact that you're in an old house and he links the raven and the crow and then you're waiting for the secret.

804
00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:17.940
You're waiting for the secret room or the thing to move.

805
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:20.579
I actually think that looks really great.

806
00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:23.280
Oh, yeah, I want that fireplace.

807
00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:24.300
Yeah.

808
00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:30.300
I saw a really bittersweet animation during the week.

809
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:37.800
It's just Robin leaning over the bust of Shakespeare just constantly opening the bat doors to the bat poles and closing it again.

810
00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:42.480
I saw that too. just love her enthusiasm and her little looks, you know?

811
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:52.139
And now here we've got whatever that is, which looks like it's a beta out of it, and like electric, you know, beta where your mother makes the frosting for a cake.

812
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:54.960
And this is just a box of flashing limes.

813
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:55.619
Or where I do.

814
00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:03.360
But she just makes it so convincing and plugs in a few little audio... that's right Is that an audio in or an audio out?

815
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:07.860
Oh yes.

816
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:11.159
And yeah, she's just quite pleased with herself.

817
00:47:11.219 --> 00:47:11.880
Yeah, he's fine.

818
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:12.900
I'm going outside.

819
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:14.820
Is that him for this story?

820
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:15.659
Does he come back?

821
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:16.440
No, he comes back.

822
00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:19.260
I do love how that shot's slightly higher than usual.

823
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:21.480
Like they've got the camera up on a...

824
00:47:21.539 --> 00:47:25.559
Yeah, I think they I think they have a chrome because they used it earlier in DeFreeze's house as well.

825
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:26.579
What other...

826
00:47:26.579 --> 00:47:28.079
Doctor Who's did this guy direct?

827
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:29.460
Because I'm really liking his direction.

828
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:31.079
I believe this is his only one.

829
00:47:31.139 --> 00:47:32.820
That's a criminal.

830
00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.320
Daryl Blake.

831
00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:36.059
He's not flashy, is he?

832
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.519
Like, there's no camp field or anything.

833
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:43.619
He's not... doing anything sort of particularly special.

834
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:45.239
But hearty.

835
00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:46.679
It's just super, super competent.

836
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:49.739
But he's thinking about the framing and how to make it.

837
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:50.340
Yeah.

838
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:53.400
And I mean, this is fabulous.

839
00:47:53.460 --> 00:47:54.960
Like, I just love this in the script.

840
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:56.219
It's a great reveal too.

841
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:57.539
It's super smart.

842
00:47:57.599 --> 00:47:58.920
It was set up. forgotten it.

843
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:07.079
But as a kid, it's like you always suspected her, you know, and and you thought it could be, you know, she's involved in that sort of thing.

844
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:10.559
So it's that thing where, as the audience you didn't feel like, oh, yes, I knew it.

845
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:12.780
And so it's positive reinforcement, you know?

846
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.780
And I just love the stories about her too.

847
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:17.699
You know, like she's from different areas.

848
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:19.440
She comes over from Brazil.

849
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:20.699
She kills her husband.

850
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.880
You know, she's she's really just terrific.

851
00:48:23.940 --> 00:48:26.099
That's a great scene and a great reveal.

852
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:28.980
And now we're back in studio for.

853
00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:30.840
Oh, I love this.

854
00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:36.599
Oh, should we get, like, again, a lovely, I love the shots of this, and now, da da.

855
00:48:36.659 --> 00:48:39.719
Oh, yes, and I'm still wearing my um.

856
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.960
Yes, but Romana seems not to notice because it's kind of out of shot.

857
00:48:43.619 --> 00:48:45.719
Shall we see?

858
00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:52.559
Actually, the Romana is the perfect companion for that to happen to because to Romana.

859
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:54.840
She knows nothing about earth culture.

860
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:55.559
Yeah it's great.

861
00:48:55.619 --> 00:48:56.579
This is just evening wear.

862
00:48:58.260 --> 00:49:02.460
That's an interesting thing how Romana's down and then she's sitting like a statue.

863
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:07.260
I mean, obviously that's limitation of the technology at the time, but you know Romana's now.

864
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:09.239
Who knows?

865
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:09.659
Who knows?

866
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:14.280
Disintegrated, probably. and that and that wasn't even the original cliffhanger, of course.

867
00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:18.059
The original cliffhanger was, you should recognise that face.

868
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:19.500
It's your friend Miss Faye.

869
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:22.199
And then an ogry was going to come up behind them.

870
00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:26.699
But the episode was underrunning by about 30 seconds.

871
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:28.380
So we get that scene.

872
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:33.539
I like that kind of cliffhanger, though, where it's a new bit of information that's revealed.

873
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.980
A one-two sort of punch.

874
00:49:35.099 --> 00:49:35.880
Yeah.

875
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:38.099
It would have been better if it had been the original.

876
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:38.760
Yeah.

877
00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:46.260
Um Uh, I've been reading the new adventures each day.

878
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.579
I'm still very early on.

879
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.340
I'm currently in At time of recording.

880
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:51.659
I'm currently in time worm.

881
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:53.940
But by the time this goes out.

882
00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:56.820
At least you're not in cat's cradle.

883
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:01.380
But I, um, yeah, I'm reading...

884
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:04.440
Timeworm Revelation by Paul Cornell.

885
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:09.659
And it's amazing, but I just finished Time Worm Apocalypse by Nigel Robinson, which is Middling.

886
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:17.039
And one of the problems I raise in it is you have to wait until the last 20% of the book to get any answers.

887
00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:20.880
Whereas here we get and we get an answer.

888
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:22.139
You drip you drip fed them.

889
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:22.619
Exactly.

890
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:23.039
Exactly.

891
00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:26.940
And I said, you know, that's a, that's an example of good Doctor Who.

892
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:31.440
It's a big failing of the new adventures that they try to be clever.

893
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:34.559
Sometimes they out clever themselves.

894
00:50:34.619 --> 00:50:37.079
Yeah, and they just end up being tiresome, I think.

895
00:50:37.139 --> 00:50:38.159
It makes it boring.

896
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:42.239
Like you're waiting for answers and you don't get them until too late in the thing you don't care.

897
00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:43.260
No, that's right.

898
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:44.400
You forgotten the questions by then.

899
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:45.239
Yeah, yeah.

900
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:47.219
Oh, look, has it been going on?

901
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.219
So yes, you're right. sandwich convention. go and have a look.

902
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.380
But he did to Doomwatch.

903
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:54.599
And Ace of Wands.

904
00:50:54.659 --> 00:50:55.440
Oh.

905
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.539
I love how she sort of just prances.

906
00:50:57.539 --> 00:50:58.320
And Paul Temple.

907
00:50:58.320 --> 00:50:59.579
Throws her and then...

908
00:50:59.579 --> 00:51:01.380
And the trances to get her staff.

909
00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:04.079
Oh boy.

910
00:51:04.139 --> 00:51:05.639
And crossroads.

911
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:09.059
Directed in crossroads.

912
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:09.599
Oh, wow.

913
00:51:09.659 --> 00:51:11.579
And some episodes of Corey.

914
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:19.980
He's on the commentary for this as well with Mary and Tom's on a second.

915
00:51:20.099 --> 00:51:20.760
And triangle.

916
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:26.519
Oh, yeah, so...

917
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:29.760
Sorry, it wasn't that the episode the previous episode was underrunning.

918
00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:31.800
It was overrunning, so they had to move this shot.

919
00:51:31.860 --> 00:51:32.639
That's what it was.

920
00:51:32.699 --> 00:51:33.900
Yeah.

921
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.719
Because this is quite quite a lengthy scene that we build up to.

922
00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:42.239
But it's why we get a sort of weird cut coming up.

923
00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:45.300
This weird car.

924
00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:48.179
It was to cut the fact that this was 2 separate shots.

925
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:49.679
It wasn't a continuous shot.

926
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.019
Oh, dear.

927
00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:54.059
Really, Brendan?

928
00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:55.260
Oh, and there's an arm.

929
00:51:55.320 --> 00:52:01.199
Oh, and there's so, and you could also briefly see the person behind it pushing out.

930
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:04.920
So there was just a bloke standing in the archway.

931
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:06.360
Oh dear.

932
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:11.579
Maybe that's someone ate earlier that was dragging along, slowly sucking the life energy out of.

933
00:52:11.699 --> 00:52:12.780
Good head cannon there.

934
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:13.380
Yes.

935
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:13.800
Yes, yes.

936
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:19.139
And this is also one of the few Doctor Who stories of the 70s and 80s where Dick Mills doesn't do the special sound.

937
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:20.099
This is Liz Parker.

938
00:52:20.219 --> 00:52:23.099
Who, of course, would do much of the special sound for Blake 7.

939
00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:23.400
Yeah.

940
00:52:23.460 --> 00:52:25.559
Well, so it's women all round.

941
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:27.900
Apart from the director.

942
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:29.460
And the producer.

943
00:52:29.579 --> 00:52:30.420
I'm the star.

944
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:31.260
And the star.

945
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:32.579
Unlisted de Freeze.

946
00:52:32.699 --> 00:52:33.480
And canine.

947
00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:33.840
Yeah.

948
00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:36.239
I mean, the jury's still allowed Mr. DeFreeze.

949
00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:37.800
The and the Magara.

950
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:39.480
The Pagara women?

951
00:52:39.539 --> 00:52:41.699
No, no. they Michael Wisher?

952
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:43.199
Are they?

953
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:43.440
No.

954
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.420
Oh, this is fantastic.

955
00:52:45.539 --> 00:52:47.280
Oh, yes.

956
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:49.079
Bless her. at this.

957
00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:52.559
I want her to be a companion.

958
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:57.599
Yeah, let's have a whole series where her and the doctor go on adventures in the name of science.

959
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:00.239
She's some, she's good, Tom.

960
00:53:00.300 --> 00:53:03.780
She's kind of proto Maggie Stables.

961
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:04.320
Yes.

962
00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:04.980
Yes, yeah.

963
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:11.579
I think when they were when they were writing in Evelyn, they very much had Amelia Rumford and Amelia Ducan in mind.

964
00:53:11.940 --> 00:53:16.199
Well, and it works with Colin for the same reason it works with Tom, you know.

965
00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:18.420
Because he's so bompous and he needs to be brought down.

966
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.139
Donald Blake also did EastEnders.

967
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.420
Oh, and it's oh, here we go.

968
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:26.219
I think this is a little bit.

969
00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:27.539
Embarrassing.

970
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:30.840
The music is a bit on the nose.

971
00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:32.340
But at least she's trying to sell it.

972
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:33.059
Yeah.

973
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.900
Yeah, and that line is just perfect.

974
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:39.420
And the ogre is on the canine track.

975
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:41.460
Yeah, that's it.

976
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:47.159
They look ridiculous. twigs. hold up those twigs. look like it's got some weight behind it.

977
00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:48.300
Oh, dear.

978
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:52.619
It's like when one of the goodies falls off a cliff, isn't it?

979
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:55.860
Now, that's an interesting shot, that one.

980
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:57.480
That's quite good.

981
00:53:57.539 --> 00:54:01.139
That was taken wholesale from a film.

982
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:03.599
And unfortunately, I did have it written down.

983
00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:04.559
I can't find my notes.

984
00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:05.820
But yes, it...

985
00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:06.780
Was it the Muppet babies?

986
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:08.340
Yes, it was the Muppet Babies.

987
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:09.900
Was it?

988
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:11.460
Yeah, but it...

989
00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:15.420
Meanwhile, Monty Python and the strokes of blood.

990
00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:18.420
The same Raiders.

991
00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:19.320
Fire.

992
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:19.920
Come on.

993
00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:21.420
What are you doing, Susan?

994
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.099
For God's sake, keep it pointed.

995
00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:24.119
He's got a wide angle.

996
00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:25.320
Oh here we go.

997
00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:31.260
She shouldn't be holding the staff in front of a face.

998
00:54:32.340 --> 00:54:35.579
Oh, she's like super evil now.

999
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:37.320
I just remember.

1000
00:54:37.380 --> 00:54:38.760
Roger Moore eyebrows, yes.

1001
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:39.179
Yes.

1002
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:48.719
Yeah, great villain delivery.

1003
00:54:48.780 --> 00:54:56.519
There are very, very few female villains in the Tom Baker era, and she would have to be really well and truly one of the best.

1004
00:54:56.579 --> 00:55:00.480
You see, I quite like the nurse from the previous story.

1005
00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:03.179
And I really like, um, addressed her.

1006
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:04.980
Yep, another David Fisher.

1007
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:06.059
Yep, script.

1008
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:08.219
Adrast is fabulous, actually. really really good.

1009
00:55:09.059 --> 00:55:10.800
Who else do we have?

1010
00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:11.579
Hilda Winters.

1011
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.360
Yeah, as villains, yeah, Hilda Winters.

1012
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:18.840
Kind of Madeline, Agrisi from Space Pirates.

1013
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:20.340
Oh, between Tom Baker.

1014
00:55:20.340 --> 00:55:21.119
In the Tom Baker.

1015
00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:22.380
Oh, just in the Tom Baker era.

1016
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.679
Eldrad?.

1017
00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:28.199
Not very many.

1018
00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:29.760
No, no, there really isn't.

1019
00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:33.360
Certainly, there are hardly any women in the Hinchcliffe era.

1020
00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:33.659
Yeah.

1021
00:55:33.659 --> 00:55:33.960
Yeah.

1022
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.320
I suppose you could say the Countess Scarlione?

1023
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.639
No.

1024
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:40.139
She's a dupe.

1025
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:43.860
A very glamorous and spectacular, but she doesn't.

1026
00:55:43.860 --> 00:55:46.079
The king, the queen in, um, so.

1027
00:55:46.139 --> 00:55:47.820
Oh, yes, Camilla.

1028
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:48.059
Yeah.

1029
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:53.039
Lexa is a bit of a villain?

1030
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:54.300
No, she's lovely.

1031
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:55.860
We love Lexus.

1032
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:59.099
She's just the intrans- intransigent base commander.

1033
00:55:59.159 --> 00:55:59.460
Yes.

1034
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:06.179
Well, the chaplain. intransigent bass chaplain. can't imagine Father Mulcahy acting like that.

1035
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:17.880
So this is where the story takes a really weird turn because you do expect it to be like image of the Fendal or like the way we imagine all those Hinchcliffe stories to be.

1036
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:23.219
Um, and it goes into like ludicrously fun science fiction.

1037
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:24.840
I love the twist.

1038
00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:35.880
Do you know, I'm actually surprised by that because, um, I love it as well, but I would have guessed before I knew that you might have thought it too silly.

1039
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:41.099
I, That's very interesting that you have that impression of me.

1040
00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:41.699
I don't know.

1041
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:44.460
It's just something that I've always liked about this story.

1042
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:51.239
I really like the Megara and their silly little talk and trial and everything like that, which of course, you know, is coming up.

1043
00:56:51.300 --> 00:56:58.380
But it is kind of, it is, it is intercut with this device and, and, with a tea towel on it.

1044
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:02.099
And Amelia having to send off the ogre with K 9.

1045
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:03.599
So there's there's other stuff going on.

1046
00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:14.760
If it had just been like in the ship for the rest of it, a bit like when, like in the face of evil, when they go into the city of those people, where it all just goes horribly wrong, perhaps not.

1047
00:57:14.820 --> 00:57:18.780
But I really do like, really do, oh, this sound effect.

1048
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:19.500
Oh, it's bad.

1049
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:20.820
Oh, I like it.

1050
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.980
And and it coincides with him taking the detail off.

1051
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:35.699
Okay, if we're going to be casting burboid like aspersions on the protuberance of this thing.

1052
00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:37.380
I'm not allowed to say anything.

1053
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:42.960
Okay, listeners, okay, dear listeners, if yours looks like that, see a doctor.

1054
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:45.960
Which one?

1055
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:47.699
a bit vividly red, isn't it?

1056
00:57:50.340 --> 00:57:58.019
Oh, I love someone has described this scene as canine throwing shade.

1057
00:57:59.460 --> 00:58:01.800
This is...

1058
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:02.639
Oh, shut up, Kate.

1059
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.440
So nicely done.

1060
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:05.159
Yeah.

1061
00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:07.860
And again, you've got canine framed in between the 2 of them there.

1062
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.300
So everyone's faces on screen.

1063
00:58:10.019 --> 00:58:18.539
But just the question she asks and his explanations and and you feel a bit like that, I think, is a viewer.

1064
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:20.760
Like you accept it, but it's sort of like, you know?

1065
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:27.119
I also like, too, that she's asking questions not because she's stupid, but because this isn't her area.

1066
00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:29.219
Yeah, he has an acquiring mind.

1067
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:29.760
Yeah, yeah.

1068
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:34.139
And she knows stuff about relatively even though she's not a physicist.

1069
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:37.500
You know, like all of that stuff's fun.

1070
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:41.460
So she's fun and smart and curious and is asking exposition.

1071
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:48.360
You don't have to be a character who has no educational knowledge to ask the right questions to move on the plot.

1072
00:58:48.539 --> 00:58:50.460
You don't have to be stupid.

1073
00:58:50.519 --> 00:59:07.679
Yeah, and so it serves to characterise her and her funny dismissive line about this. all that stuff about academia is just tremendous I think there's a real, I don't know, was it, is it synergy between the script and Anthony Reid and David Fisher?

1074
00:59:07.739 --> 00:59:08.820
I just think they work really well.

1075
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:13.139
Yeah, well, um, the impression you get watching...

1076
00:59:13.139 --> 00:59:19.139
The various making of is that Anthony Reid just seem to get on with everyone.

1077
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:26.280
You know, and he was, he seems to be very much someone who sort of gave the writers their head.

1078
00:59:26.340 --> 00:59:29.579
And, you know, just communicated with them.

1079
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:33.179
It comes across as very personable in interviews, doesn't he?

1080
00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:33.900
Yeah.

1081
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:43.440
Whereas, yeah, even even Douglas Adams next year, you kind of get the impression that he rewrote a lot himself, which the writers didn't object to.

1082
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:46.139
Yeah, in a time.

1083
00:59:47.699 --> 00:59:54.360
And now, of course, in the late 80s, there was a science fiction film called inner space.

1084
00:59:54.420 --> 01:00:03.840
So, you know, again, that was just something that my childish mind sort of mashed together inner space sort of being a comedic version of Fantastic Voyage.

1085
01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:08.940
We would have been watching this in the late 80s, early 90s when it was constantly repeated on the ABC.

1086
01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.420
Yes.

1087
01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:12.420
Some of us a bit earlier.

1088
01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:17.519
I think I remember seeing it the 1st time it aired on Australian television, which was so exciting.

1089
01:00:17.579 --> 01:00:20.579
Like we had no idea of how it would work.

1090
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:27.119
Actually, that's quite true because like we'd had the repeats and I remember Sarah leaving and then Leila leaving and then that happened.

1091
01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:29.639
And then suddenly we had Romana.

1092
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:31.380
And, yeah.

1093
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:38.039
I think I think I was definitely aware that this was new when I watched it.

1094
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:56.460
She, and I certainly remember the beginning of season 17 as well, but I remember ringing my friend, you know, after the 1st episode of Rebos operation and going, ooh, I wonder whether they'll find a segment of the key to time next week. because I didn't know that it was going to be 6 stories, each one about segment of the key.

1095
01:00:56.579 --> 01:01:00.960
The other thing I really like about this is that there are cuts from like her house.

1096
01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:01.679
They're back here.

1097
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:11.159
And when, and even when they're running away from the ogre, they're in the mansion and they're suddenly at the cliff, like it's very much new style sort of storytelling, rather.

1098
01:01:11.219 --> 01:01:14.219
Yeah, rather than we're going to follow them being chased all the way.

1099
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:15.420
So suddenly boom, boom.

1100
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:19.860
Like it's like dashing from one place to another, but you're not actually showing the dash. moves the story on.

1101
01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:20.280
Yeah.

1102
01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:20.820
Yeah.

1103
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:30.599
You know, years ago, I was thinking to myself, what makes soap operas so different to regular dramas?

1104
01:01:30.659 --> 01:01:32.099
And I figured out what it was.

1105
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:34.019
And this is especially true of American soaps.

1106
01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:37.980
It's less true of British soaps and Australian soaps, but especially American soaps.

1107
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:39.420
You don't get that.

1108
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:52.139
You'll cut away from family A, family B. But then when you cut away to cut back to family A, They'll recap their previous conversation before continuing.

1109
01:01:52.260 --> 01:01:53.400
Nothing's happened off screen.

1110
01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:58.739
And I think that's where good drama succeeds, where, you know, you cut out the boring bits.

1111
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:05.760
I think soap opera has to work for an audience that isn't paying attention or isn't tuning in every day.

1112
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:06.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1113
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:08.940
So it needs to be constant during the washing.

1114
01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:09.719
Yeah, whilst watching.

1115
01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:11.159
That's so good.

1116
01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:14.579
Just her reaction to that thing exploding in, you know?

1117
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:17.880
I'm also struck by how long Roman is being kept offscreen.

1118
01:02:17.940 --> 01:02:19.440
Oh, in this episode.

1119
01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:20.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1120
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:29.579
And she's she's really selling the, oh, my friend is actually evil and and has kidnapped your friend.

1121
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.019
Like she's really worried.

1122
01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:33.599
Yeah, it's like, what...

1123
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.860
Okay, one minute 20.

1124
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:39.000
I'm going to play.

1125
01:02:39.059 --> 01:02:42.000
One hour, 20. doing so well.

1126
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:43.559
I know, I know.

1127
01:02:43.619 --> 01:02:45.119
I forgot this is not bond finger.

1128
01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:49.199
Bond thing is the one with the champagne.

1129
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:50.219
Yeah.

1130
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:51.840
Yeah, and I'm not even drunk.

1131
01:02:51.900 --> 01:02:54.360
Yeah, it's like 11.30 AM.

1132
01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:55.320
We're not drinking yet.

1133
01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:56.880
Nathan, you're right.

1134
01:02:56.940 --> 01:03:00.599
Romani is missing for a long time in this episode.

1135
01:03:00.659 --> 01:03:01.559
Yeah, yeah.

1136
01:03:01.619 --> 01:03:02.880
I think that's good.

1137
01:03:02.940 --> 01:03:10.619
I think that's really good But you don't necessarily always feel like she's missing because you've got Amelia there and Romana's been doing the investigating.

1138
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:14.760
Now that you've mentioned it, yes, obviously, but why does he do that?

1139
01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:16.019
Why does he have to spin like that?

1140
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:17.340
He thinks he's being funny.

1141
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:18.239
Well, you know what?

1142
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:21.659
I think he's probably said to Daryl, hey, Daryl, what is this effect going to look like?

1143
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:22.739
Well it's going to look like a spiral.

1144
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:24.420
Oh, well, how about I spin in the spiral?

1145
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.519
And the directors obviously said, okay.

1146
01:03:26.579 --> 01:03:33.420
Oh, yeah, no, yes, I do agree, but I'm just saying like, you know, really come off.

1147
01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:38.519
Something you were saying earlier about the structure, Nathan.

1148
01:03:38.579 --> 01:03:44.760
You know, we go from this being our Hinchcliffe style horror to this strange kind of spacy thing.

1149
01:03:44.820 --> 01:03:54.119
Before we started recording listeners, last week as we record was Empress of Mars, the episode, and she's gone painted herself silver.

1150
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:58.860
And Nathan and I were discussing whether it might have been better as a two-parter.

1151
01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:04.619
And Nathan brought up the interesting point that in the new series, the two-parters work best when the 2 episodes are very different from each other.

1152
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:06.119
And that's what happens here.

1153
01:04:06.179 --> 01:04:12.000
In new series terms, episodes one and 2 would be the 1st part, which is the horror style story.

1154
01:04:12.059 --> 01:04:13.260
And then episode two.

1155
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:18.000
We get this science fiction explanation with the fake skeleton and him looking really guilty.

1156
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:22.920
It does it does kind of kick the pace up the...

1157
01:04:22.980 --> 01:04:24.300
Oh how hilarious.

1158
01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:30.000
I managed to sense myself that time.

1159
01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:31.739
That's all right.

1160
01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:33.119
Don't go on about it.

1161
01:04:33.179 --> 01:04:34.320
Oh dear.

1162
01:04:34.380 --> 01:04:36.780
Crow Android with big lips, yeah.

1163
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:41.760
Now, I find it.

1164
01:04:41.820 --> 01:04:49.559
I do find it strange here that they talk about hyperspace being an impossibility where we've had hyperspace in the show before, but maybe this is a different kind of hyperspace.

1165
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:51.599
Or a different script editor, right?

1166
01:04:51.659 --> 01:04:52.440
Well exactly.

1167
01:04:52.920 --> 01:05:01.559
But you know, something something like that, you know, they never say something like, oh, warp drive doesn't exist because warp drive is used on the show a couple of times.

1168
01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:04.619
Looks like the Sylvester McCoy title sequence in the background.

1169
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:06.119
Sorry.

1170
01:05:09.179 --> 01:05:10.199
Love this.

1171
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:11.579
Loved it.

1172
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:16.619
And to be fair, I still can't draw on a computer like that.

1173
01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:17.159
So, you know.

1174
01:05:17.219 --> 01:05:24.960
No, I mean, I mean, you know, they're using the technology at the time and it helps you to understand where it is and that sort of thing.

1175
01:05:25.019 --> 01:05:25.679
It's effective.

1176
01:05:26.159 --> 01:05:32.340
Now, I should mention now because at the time of recording season 24, I wasn't sure if we were going to do this.

1177
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:41.099
Our new flight through entirety, Sylvester McCoy era logo was designed by my friend Anthony Wells of pro bono publico design.

1178
01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:43.739
And yeah, he did an amazing job.

1179
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:45.900
So this is my, this is my 1st mention of that.

1180
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:48.000
Of course, it's been in the show notes for several weeks now.

1181
01:05:48.059 --> 01:05:49.260
That's right.

1182
01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:50.460
You have seen it, in fact.

1183
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:52.860
You've seen him, but, you know, I wanted to give a verbal mention.

1184
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:57.119
I can attest to that, Brendan showed it to me the other day and the logo.

1185
01:05:59.099 --> 01:06:02.039
Now, this ship is terrible.

1186
01:06:02.099 --> 01:06:06.059
Made of Space 1999 Eagle commercial model kits.

1187
01:06:06.360 --> 01:06:09.420
And at the back there, microphones.

1188
01:06:09.539 --> 01:06:10.199
Yep.

1189
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:12.239
Like the ones we're using now, actually.

1190
01:06:12.300 --> 01:06:13.800
It's terrible, isn't it?

1191
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:20.820
And the problem is that thing where the model is so small that you can't shoot it close up and so it just looks small.

1192
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:27.420
I think the main problem is, um, you know, it's shot on video and then done on green screen, so there's no depth of field.

1193
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:29.039
No, that doesn't help either.

1194
01:06:29.159 --> 01:06:30.900
Yeah, I think...

1195
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:33.599
I understand why they never shoot these things from below either.

1196
01:06:33.659 --> 01:06:35.099
That would help too, wouldn't it?

1197
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:39.420
Um, I, that, you know what they did in the invasion of time.

1198
01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:42.840
The Varden ship was always shot, was almost always shot from below.

1199
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:44.880
Oh, for the film shots.

1200
01:06:44.940 --> 01:06:46.260
There are a few video shots of it.

1201
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:52.139
But yeah, you know, I understand Daryl Blake here is trying to avoid any filming as a cost-saving measure.

1202
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:56.099
And I suppose there are so few shots of the ship you can get away with it.

1203
01:06:56.099 --> 01:07:06.059
And we did get that wonderful shot earlier with the doctor walking through the window and you see him from the outside, which would have been more difficult to achieve on film for a Doctor Who budget.

1204
01:07:06.119 --> 01:07:09.599
But yeah, it is a shame because I don't think the model's at fault.

1205
01:07:09.659 --> 01:07:19.800
I think the way you shoot it is like if you look at the the empress next year, the empress and the Hekate, those are really good looking models, but they look so terrible on video.

1206
01:07:19.860 --> 01:07:23.639
And even the Hyperion 3 looks terrible, doesn't it, many years later?

1207
01:07:23.699 --> 01:07:27.179
Maybe they should re-release all these things with CG effects.

1208
01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:28.320
Like a different option.

1209
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:32.760
To remember the darken space?

1210
01:07:32.820 --> 01:07:34.920
Can I just say?

1211
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:37.139
that as a kid?

1212
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:39.000
Burgeoning awakenings?

1213
01:07:39.059 --> 01:07:39.659
Higher.

1214
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:43.079
When this gentleman came out of the tent.

1215
01:07:43.139 --> 01:07:45.179
I always love this scene.

1216
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:48.719
I never quite understood why. many years later.

1217
01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:49.860
That's right.

1218
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:52.619
And of course, yeah, look at him.

1219
01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:54.179
He's well fit.

1220
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:58.199
He's in a rather 70s hairless kind of way.

1221
01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:03.179
Yes, but James, I am from the 70s, so Pat, Pat.

1222
01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:14.760
And of course, Pat making her 2nd appearance in 2 weeks is Sharon Taylor, who we saw last week as you are listening, dear listener, as Stella's mum in Dragonfire.

1223
01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:15.900
Oh God, she was awful.

1224
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:17.640
Oh gosh.

1225
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:20.100
Oh, no, no, no, no.

1226
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:23.220
I can we point to that out when we were doing the live tweet.

1227
01:08:23.220 --> 01:08:25.619
The live tweets and I didn't make the connection.

1228
01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:29.939
I mean, this is just, like, as a chart, I actually had nightmares about this.

1229
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:31.079
Oh yeah, me too.

1230
01:08:31.140 --> 01:08:31.500
Oh, yes.

1231
01:08:31.560 --> 01:08:33.960
Like, it's really, really horrific.

1232
01:08:34.020 --> 01:08:37.140
You know what I said at the time, it looks like a tomorrow person.

1233
01:08:37.859 --> 01:08:46.680
I do think that Graham Williams, when he does horror, actually does it better than Hinchcliffe, because you get the these 2 people who we haven't seen before.

1234
01:08:46.739 --> 01:08:48.119
Obviously we won't see them again.

1235
01:08:48.180 --> 01:08:51.539
But you, you're affected to red.

1236
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:51.779
Yeah.

1237
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:53.579
Yeah, they're normal people.

1238
01:08:53.640 --> 01:09:01.560
In fact, you know, there's a lot of times when Doctor Who opens with 2 people who'll get killed by the monster. you know, think Attack of the Cyberman.

1239
01:09:01.680 --> 01:09:04.680
Yeah, for all about any other criticisms of that story.

1240
01:09:04.739 --> 01:09:06.300
That opening scene is incredibly effective.

1241
01:09:06.420 --> 01:09:09.659
Yeah, whereas here, they're normal people.

1242
01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:10.560
Do you know what I mean?

1243
01:09:10.619 --> 01:09:13.680
And they're, you know, talking about the pub the night before.

1244
01:09:13.739 --> 01:09:16.199
They've just happened to stumble into the plot.

1245
01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

1246
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:19.079
And they've gone into the woods and never to be seen of again.

1247
01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:23.460
I think that must I think that must have been a particularly evil we're in. because it's been locked up.

1248
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:24.539
A naughty wearing.

1249
01:09:24.539 --> 01:09:25.380
A naughty wearing.

1250
01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:29.939
It's not got anything to do with the fact that that's all they can.

1251
01:09:29.939 --> 01:09:34.619
But they're only in it for that short amount of time, but it's so effective.

1252
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:36.659
Yeah, yeah, it's a great scene.

1253
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:38.699
The dying people are the women.

1254
01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:39.960
The dying people.

1255
01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:40.680
Sorry.

1256
01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:43.500
And now...

1257
01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:48.300
And of course, we have to dock down so the visual... and we don't notice it.

1258
01:09:48.359 --> 01:10:11.159
So, um, the, the, the Magara were these little sort of um, sculptures, sculptures of lights, essentially, being carried around and manipulated by 2 black clad puppeteers, but it's the same lights that are used for Arato's voice speaking module the following year.

1259
01:10:11.220 --> 01:10:13.739
It's a similar principle, but they didn't need the puppeteers.

1260
01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:20.340
No, but the way the lights go round and around with the shining central, like it's clearly the same sort of prop.

1261
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:25.500
Um, well, I think these, the light balls themselves were the property of the puppeteers.

1262
01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:28.739
But yeah, I think for creature from the pit, the BBC made their own.

1263
01:10:28.859 --> 01:10:42.060
And of course, we have, we have the central lights being voice activated by Gerard Cross and David McAllister. doing their Michael Wisher impersonation.

1264
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:44.520
No one's eye line is right.

1265
01:10:46.140 --> 01:10:47.939
It doesn't matter.

1266
01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:52.439
Like, you know, I just think, or maybe he's looking away because the light's too bright and they're blinding him.

1267
01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:53.640
More head cannon.

1268
01:10:53.699 --> 01:10:54.720
Yes, good.

1269
01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:56.880
I love this. having their own little chat.

1270
01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:04.380
You know, they're just these flashing lights and, you know, they sneak off and then they get a little bit...

1271
01:11:04.380 --> 01:11:08.520
And then, like, they're not looking at him like they're just, you know, I just love it.

1272
01:11:08.579 --> 01:11:09.180
I love it.

1273
01:11:09.239 --> 01:11:11.340
None can escape the magata.

1274
01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:16.260
I think the script expects them to be floating balls.

1275
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:25.800
Yes, but Star Wars had just come out and there's that scene where Luke is training with a floating ball and Daryl Blake said, I want to avoid a direct comparison.

1276
01:11:25.859 --> 01:11:26.699
Well, I think he made a good choice.

1277
01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:27.600
Yeah, me too.

1278
01:11:27.659 --> 01:11:31.920
I like the lights and it ties in with the mythological idea.

1279
01:11:31.979 --> 01:11:40.140
You know, of course, the Megara were mythological beings in in Celtic and, um, uh, angle mythology.

1280
01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:46.680
Yeah, so, and so to have them as lights and sort of little areas.

1281
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:56.399
Well, I think we, I think I remember in our episode on Stones of Blood, speculating about the person whose job it was to paint her breast, silver.

1282
01:11:56.460 --> 01:11:58.500
Well, the...

1283
01:11:59.100 --> 01:11:59.579
I don't know.

1284
01:11:59.579 --> 01:12:00.479
John Nathan Turner.

1285
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:03.239
Was it Beatrice?

1286
01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:10.199
I would say it was the makeup designer who was Anne Briggs.

1287
01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:12.239
Oh, thank you very much qualification.

1288
01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:13.619
Got that a bit wrong.

1289
01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:15.659
Lesbian and Briggs?

1290
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:16.260
Okay.

1291
01:12:16.979 --> 01:12:20.340
Her pulsing staff is put paid to that other.

1292
01:12:20.340 --> 01:12:22.199
Oh, straight in the camera.

1293
01:12:22.199 --> 01:12:23.819
It's such a good makeup job.

1294
01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:26.699
Oh, agree. or whatever she's saying.

1295
01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:27.899
Oh, agree.

1296
01:12:28.439 --> 01:12:31.739
And she just does this little look at the end here.

1297
01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:33.300
She's having a moment.

1298
01:12:34.140 --> 01:12:39.359
And you can just kind of see behind that, the swirliness.

1299
01:12:39.420 --> 01:12:42.300
The camera is tilting up.

1300
01:12:42.359 --> 01:12:45.840
But because the rocks are in such shadow, it's hard to tell, but I picked that up my last time watching this.

1301
01:12:45.899 --> 01:12:47.760
So she's floating up into the ship.

1302
01:12:47.819 --> 01:12:48.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1303
01:12:49.140 --> 01:12:59.760
But it's interesting that, like, she comes into that and and, like, she's just faded away. and I assume Professor's thing has to go to this point.

1304
01:12:59.819 --> 01:13:02.520
Does that mean that she can just hijack that and come from any point of the ship?

1305
01:13:02.579 --> 01:13:04.380
Do you know what I'm saying rather than standing where on her?

1306
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:05.220
Yeah, yeah. coming in here.

1307
01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:07.739
Yeah, well, I think I think Vivian has complete control.

1308
01:13:08.460 --> 01:13:10.920
So that's actually her swirly thing.

1309
01:13:10.979 --> 01:13:11.340
Yeah.

1310
01:13:11.340 --> 01:13:13.859
Not the professor's swirly thing. right.

1311
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:17.039
Yeah, because she destroyed the swelly thing and then she made her own soy thing.

1312
01:13:17.100 --> 01:13:17.579
Forever.

1313
01:13:19.199 --> 01:13:23.340
And she's got a great laugh for a cliffhanger, it has to be said.

1314
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:28.079
There's nothing wrong with that Tom sort of hugging and clutching Mary there.

1315
01:13:28.140 --> 01:13:32.159
At this stage, and to the end of his tenure.

1316
01:13:32.220 --> 01:13:43.500
Tom's attitude for how does the doctor deal with women is the doctor doesn't have the human heterosexual male attraction to women.

1317
01:13:43.619 --> 01:13:55.560
So he, you know, he will he will just grab them and clutch them clothes because we need to be close for the trans mat, you know, and his whole thing was the doctor doesn't see anything sexual in that because it never occurs to him.

1318
01:13:55.619 --> 01:14:00.539
And it's why at the beginning, um, when Mary's saying, no, no, you can't come in yet.

1319
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:02.399
When he's saying, what do you mean I can't come in?

1320
01:14:02.460 --> 01:14:06.060
He doesn't understand that you can't walk in on someone who's dressing.

1321
01:14:06.060 --> 01:14:13.800
But it was also a way where he could motivate lots of scenes of him clutching his female post-star, probably.

1322
01:14:13.859 --> 01:14:16.500
Especially when they're as attractive as Mary Tam.

1323
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:17.100
Yeah, yeah.

1324
01:14:17.100 --> 01:14:19.439
And even more when they're Lal award.

1325
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:22.859
I think he wouldn't have dared tried it with Louise Jameson.

1326
01:14:23.340 --> 01:14:25.619
Well, he hated her at the time.

1327
01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:31.920
Well, apparently after Horror of Fang Rock, where she just said to him, look, you're being very unfair.

1328
01:14:31.979 --> 01:14:34.079
Maybe you don't want to have a sidekick, but I'm here too.

1329
01:14:34.140 --> 01:14:40.800
Apparently, after that point, it wasn't the friendship it is now, but it was a healthy working relationship.

1330
01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:45.600
I can't believe we're...

1331
01:14:45.659 --> 01:14:47.159
It goes so quickly.

1332
01:14:47.220 --> 01:14:49.859
It's such a joy when you're watching so much fun.

1333
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:51.479
It does seem like a jaw.

1334
01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:53.399
Yeah, he does whip along, doesn't it?

1335
01:14:53.460 --> 01:14:55.560
We're not watching the keys of barrenness again.

1336
01:14:56.100 --> 01:15:02.039
I think the trial scenes in this are so much better than the child seems in trial and time lord.

1337
01:15:02.100 --> 01:15:03.060
You know why?

1338
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:05.039
Because people are standing and moving around the set.

1339
01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:08.819
You know, why wasn't Linda Bellium painted in silver, for God's sake.

1340
01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:10.560
That would have been great.

1341
01:15:10.619 --> 01:15:12.960
Okay, some good cliff.

1342
01:15:13.020 --> 01:15:15.000
Well, not quite cliffhang rending there.

1343
01:15:15.060 --> 01:15:16.020
Acting.

1344
01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:18.300
She smelt the fart.

1345
01:15:18.659 --> 01:15:20.939
Deos ex Megara.

1346
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:24.779
Sorry.

1347
01:15:24.779 --> 01:15:30.119
And I'm, you know, these sloping panels, they don't quite meet the floor, but I like it.

1348
01:15:30.180 --> 01:15:31.920
He is ours, he is ours.

1349
01:15:31.979 --> 01:15:33.300
You may have him afterwards.

1350
01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:34.319
I want four.

1351
01:15:34.319 --> 01:15:36.779
A haircut.

1352
01:15:37.199 --> 01:15:39.840
Yeah, he needs one, you're right, Brendan.

1353
01:15:39.899 --> 01:15:42.180
He's like, he's like pertly.

1354
01:15:42.239 --> 01:15:45.600
It's his 5th season and his hair is at his most buffon.

1355
01:15:45.659 --> 01:15:52.140
Is that console made of like a cushion to model of BBC Television Centre?

1356
01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:55.560
Yes, from the arc in space, probably.

1357
01:15:55.619 --> 01:16:00.119
Yeah, it's another one of those control pedals for the Arkin space that's been, but yeah, you're like, you're right.

1358
01:16:00.180 --> 01:16:02.520
It looks like TV centre, which is...

1359
01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:03.600
Being turned into apartment.

1360
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:04.800
Being turned into flats, yeah.

1361
01:16:04.859 --> 01:16:09.300
I love how she's strained in that shop where she's sitting, like, again.

1362
01:16:09.300 --> 01:16:11.640
I think they've demolished the action, Hilton.

1363
01:16:11.699 --> 01:16:12.960
Yes, yes, they have.

1364
01:16:13.020 --> 01:16:17.880
I actually did a little pilgrimage to the BBC television centre last time I was in London.

1365
01:16:17.939 --> 01:16:22.500
I just sort of sat there in quiet contemplation outside the gates for a little while.

1366
01:16:22.619 --> 01:16:23.819
What did you think about?

1367
01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:26.520
They filmed this in there.

1368
01:16:26.819 --> 01:16:29.699
Pete regenerated in here, you know.

1369
01:16:29.760 --> 01:16:51.479
Amusingly, when I did the same thing when I was living in the UK about eight, 9 years ago, um, as I was walking down, to, to, like, to television centre, a, a garbage truck went past, and the name of the company was, um, disposing of the waste was TARDIS.

1370
01:16:51.899 --> 01:16:54.119
TARDIS waste disposal.

1371
01:16:54.180 --> 01:16:56.220
And it had a picture of a police box on the side of it.

1372
01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:01.439
No one in the BBC is actually looking out because, you know, they'll sue.

1373
01:17:01.500 --> 01:17:02.760
Exactly.

1374
01:17:02.819 --> 01:17:06.239
They even sued to the metropolitan police, didn't they?

1375
01:17:06.300 --> 01:17:06.659
Yeah.

1376
01:17:06.659 --> 01:17:14.100
So I'm just laughing at the Magara telling off Romano. up for the death penalty as well.

1377
01:17:14.579 --> 01:17:17.640
Maybe we should get the Megara to impeach Trump.

1378
01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:21.060
They'd vaporise him on the spot.

1379
01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:25.680
Your testimony is irrelevant and orange.

1380
01:17:29.220 --> 01:17:32.039
She's quite liking them, really.

1381
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:48.119
But I do wonder if they're kind of a counterpoint to the envisioning of Romana as a kind of buy the book character. you know, last story she's talking about in Berkeley's Planetary Gazetteer and what have you.

1382
01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:57.180
And so, you know, she does soften over the season and in the season of Big Finish audios that Mary did with Tom.

1383
01:17:57.239 --> 01:18:06.539
There are, there are several moments where she contemplates whether she should soften slightly, whether she should adopt new ideas and what have you.

1384
01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:11.939
Because she does need to be kind of lawful good so that Tom has someone to rebel again.

1385
01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:12.359
Yeah.

1386
01:18:12.479 --> 01:18:12.899
Yeah, yeah.

1387
01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:13.800
Yeah, exactly.

1388
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:24.060
And yeah, next year instead, when she's more like the doctor, of course, we get fabulous repartee, but we're getting fabulous repartee here as well.

1389
01:18:24.119 --> 01:18:25.020
Another...

1390
01:18:25.140 --> 01:18:28.020
Another framing shop with Vivian in the Middle dance, fantastic.

1391
01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:31.380
Yeah, Daryl Blake has an excellent sense of depth of field.

1392
01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:32.579
It had never really struck me before.

1393
01:18:33.899 --> 01:18:37.859
There's still no one's eyelines are right when...

1394
01:18:37.920 --> 01:18:39.060
Oh, I can't win them all.

1395
01:18:40.500 --> 01:18:44.399
Need a tennis ball on a stick like they had for tooth and claw.

1396
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:45.479
Yeah that's exactly right.

1397
01:18:45.539 --> 01:18:48.779
Oh, do you remember David Tennant?

1398
01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:50.520
commentary on tooth and claw?

1399
01:18:50.579 --> 01:18:53.279
talking about the guy in the in the motion capture suit.

1400
01:18:53.340 --> 01:18:57.539
Who's in a very skin tight motion capture suit and David Tennant says he was a big boy.

1401
01:18:58.739 --> 01:19:01.800
I love to look at the tennis ball, apparently.

1402
01:19:02.039 --> 01:19:05.100
It wasn't the tennis ball I was looking at.

1403
01:19:05.159 --> 01:19:09.479
I love the way that Tom just takes this...

1404
01:19:09.539 --> 01:19:11.039
That is fantastic actually.

1405
01:19:11.100 --> 01:19:15.539
Cornell Day and topping hate this. in the discontinuity guide.

1406
01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:23.220
They say the 1st 2 episodes are great lead up and it's all thrown away in the last 2 episodes revolving around the doctor's defensive himself in hyperspace, which is woeful.

1407
01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:25.800
Well, can I just say I completely and utterly disagreed.

1408
01:19:25.859 --> 01:19:32.760
Yeah, so do I. You know, they also say that time and the Rani would only be possible if it was cut down to 3 episodes and keep with the self-lobotomizing kit.

1409
01:19:32.819 --> 01:19:34.500
Well, I do agree with them.

1410
01:19:36.180 --> 01:19:40.979
And Mr. DeVara... get it wrong.

1411
01:19:41.039 --> 01:19:42.720
Yeah, well, that's the thing.

1412
01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:48.840
It written Mr. about Trilunda, but it's all, like, it's almost always pronounced as Mr. Trin.

1413
01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:50.640
Trin...

1414
01:19:50.699 --> 01:19:56.220
No, no, no, like it actually they actually change it halfway through by accident.

1415
01:19:56.279 --> 01:19:58.560
Someone had spelt it and they just kept...

1416
01:19:58.619 --> 01:20:04.739
So in season 16, she's Romana de Varatnalunda. and then she becomes Romana Veratra Lunda in season 17.

1417
01:20:04.859 --> 01:20:05.460
Oh, really?

1418
01:20:05.640 --> 01:20:13.199
And I think in one of the Gallifrey audios, Romana has a passing comment, something on the lines of, oh, you know, I tried different pronunciations once.

1419
01:20:13.260 --> 01:20:17.699
That's good She's really good at repairing.

1420
01:20:17.760 --> 01:20:22.140
Yeah, maybe maybe the 2nd half of your name evolves with each regeneration.

1421
01:20:22.199 --> 01:20:24.119
I'd change my name, like at school.

1422
01:20:24.180 --> 01:20:28.680
Like I'm either BLB or BLB depending on how I like to pronounce my name.

1423
01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:29.579
Fair enough.

1424
01:20:29.699 --> 01:20:33.720
Well, why do other timelines all have 2 syllable names then?

1425
01:20:33.779 --> 01:20:34.739
I don't really understand.

1426
01:20:34.800 --> 01:20:38.579
Well, in the Gallifrey Audios, Android is given a longer name.

1427
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:42.779
Oh, he's Andred Veratralunda.

1428
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:45.720
It's got it's got...

1429
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:48.600
It's got lots of C's in it after the Android.

1430
01:20:48.659 --> 01:20:50.159
I like that.

1431
01:20:50.699 --> 01:20:54.060
Yeah, it's got lots of C's in it after the Android.

1432
01:20:54.119 --> 01:20:57.239
It kind of sounds like a dinosaur name, like Android.

1433
01:20:57.300 --> 01:21:02.340
Um, But yeah, sort of in the Gallifrey series as much as possible.

1434
01:21:02.399 --> 01:21:05.039
Um, like Maxwell is referenced.

1435
01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:06.840
I don't think he appears, but he is referenced.

1436
01:21:06.899 --> 01:21:07.920
Maxel Veratrillon.

1437
01:21:08.039 --> 01:21:08.279
Yeah.

1438
01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:21.359
What is it, the completely useless encyclopedia said, you know, the real secret of Doctor Who is going to be when the master, the, um, when the Doctor, the Master, and the Rani's names are revealed to be Takundravatral, and the Cecil Dravatral, and the Ad Bjork.

1439
01:21:22.380 --> 01:21:24.779
I thought the doctor was Gordon.

1440
01:21:27.899 --> 01:21:29.340
His real name is Dorothy.

1441
01:21:29.399 --> 01:21:32.579
I never actually, ever, ever, ever want to find out his name.

1442
01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:34.140
His surname is Bennett.

1443
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:37.920
Yeah, I've got no interest in finding out the doctor's name.

1444
01:21:37.979 --> 01:21:44.579
I was actually thinking about this the other day because reading Timeworm Revelation where Cornell does amazing things with language.

1445
01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:51.779
There's a moment where the doctor speaks a word that sounds like breaking glass, and that's the description you get, and it got me thinking.

1446
01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:52.979
It's like, no, I don't care.

1447
01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:53.579
It doesn't matter.

1448
01:21:53.640 --> 01:21:57.720
No, there's no possible answer to the question that wouldn't be stupid.

1449
01:21:57.779 --> 01:21:58.619
Yeah.

1450
01:21:58.619 --> 01:21:58.920
Yeah.

1451
01:21:58.979 --> 01:21:59.399
Yeah.

1452
01:21:59.460 --> 01:22:01.920
Um, like name of the doctor.

1453
01:22:01.979 --> 01:22:06.899
Well, that's not a good story, but you did know that you were never going to get the doctor's name.

1454
01:22:06.960 --> 01:22:09.960
Going back to this, which we're actually doing commentary on.

1455
01:22:10.319 --> 01:22:12.840
I do once again?

1456
01:22:13.380 --> 01:22:15.479
I do like this trial.

1457
01:22:15.539 --> 01:22:21.779
The doctor actually has witnesses that he can actually question as opposed to another trial which I've watched recently.

1458
01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:26.520
And, you know, as you as you complained about with Trial of a Time Lord, and I quite agree.

1459
01:22:26.579 --> 01:22:31.079
The doctor making fun of the Valiard belittles his character.

1460
01:22:31.140 --> 01:22:38.340
Whereas here, Tom is acting like he's in a real courtroom and being respectful to the judges.

1461
01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:48.899
Occasionally, he's making snide little asides, but he's not doing knackyard brickers yard all. you're just fairy life. because he's frustrated, not because he's being disrespectful.

1462
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:52.859
And because the scripts are wittier in this era.

1463
01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:56.939
Well, bloody Romana, making the professor carry the tripod.

1464
01:22:57.000 --> 01:23:00.119
Here, here, a 75-year-old woman carry this heavy object.

1465
01:23:01.260 --> 01:23:03.899
She's going to protect her blow dried hair.

1466
01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:10.800
See, you know, this, I really like this.

1467
01:23:10.859 --> 01:23:15.899
And, you know, it's hard to imagine another doctor doing as well with this scene.

1468
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:19.859
Certainly pert we hated acting with green screen performers.

1469
01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:20.939
Yellow screen.

1470
01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:23.880
It's witty, but it's...

1471
01:23:23.939 --> 01:23:25.079
You know, that really sells it.

1472
01:23:25.380 --> 01:23:26.579
Yeah, it's witty dialogue.

1473
01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:27.000
That's true.

1474
01:23:27.060 --> 01:23:28.020
It's clever as well.

1475
01:23:28.079 --> 01:23:29.460
Oh, clever way, that's what I meant.

1476
01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:36.779
But I mean, the way that he finally gets them to probe her mind and solved the mystery. requires him to be smart.

1477
01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:39.420
And so I think that's really good.

1478
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:42.840
And the look on his face there where she's agreed to what I want.

1479
01:23:42.899 --> 01:23:43.319
Oh, dear.

1480
01:23:43.439 --> 01:23:49.020
You know, not that he didn't want her to agree, but he realises she must have...

1481
01:23:49.020 --> 01:23:50.100
Romana has taken that.

1482
01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:51.300
Oh, contraption after all.

1483
01:23:51.359 --> 01:23:52.380
Yes, she must have felt guilty.

1484
01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:58.680
And I didn't mention this earlier, but when Amelia repairs it, the tube, the projector tube is a different colour.

1485
01:23:58.739 --> 01:24:00.539
It has changed colour.

1486
01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:03.060
It was pink and now it's got some yellow in it.

1487
01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:10.680
I don't know if we'll get another good shot of it, but it's showing that there's that progression and that attention to detail.

1488
01:24:13.739 --> 01:24:15.239
Oh, look, the vertical holds gone.

1489
01:24:15.300 --> 01:24:16.800
Mind.

1490
01:24:16.859 --> 01:24:18.600
Oh, it's gone black and white, actually.

1491
01:24:19.439 --> 01:24:22.680
It does look like a black and white shot, doesn't it?

1492
01:24:22.739 --> 01:24:24.779
Just a little bit of colour there.

1493
01:24:24.840 --> 01:24:26.399
It's um, what's that?

1494
01:24:27.180 --> 01:24:27.960
Schindler's list.

1495
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:33.119
I never thought we had to compare...

1496
01:24:33.119 --> 01:24:34.859
Schindler's leg.

1497
01:24:34.920 --> 01:24:39.060
I just love that how she says I did not and it gives like a .6 reading.

1498
01:24:39.119 --> 01:24:41.399
Like, I mean, within the legal definition.

1499
01:24:42.060 --> 01:24:43.319
She wasn't there, she didn't do it.

1500
01:24:43.380 --> 01:24:45.359
Like, it should be a one. 0 if it's out of one.

1501
01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:46.680
Like, it's so funny.

1502
01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:51.060
Or is it is it hearing that she's actually being deceitful in some way?

1503
01:24:51.420 --> 01:25:13.979
You know, yeah, there's something very Douglas Adamsey about the Megara and that sort of stuff, having a legal definition of truth, which is like a number and that the truth can be quantified as a number between 0 and one, all of that stuff, even the stuff about blowing up an entire galaxy in contempt of court, all of that is very Douglas Adams.

1504
01:25:17.699 --> 01:25:19.560
I don't give up.

1505
01:25:19.619 --> 01:25:21.539
So your simplication.

1506
01:25:21.899 --> 01:25:25.680
It's implication that there are people in...

1507
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:27.000
Did I miss that?

1508
01:25:27.060 --> 01:25:31.500
The people like the aliens in the dead aliens in the cells.

1509
01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:34.380
Are they actually had jury?

1510
01:25:34.439 --> 01:25:38.100
They are either prisoners or guards.

1511
01:25:38.159 --> 01:25:39.600
Okay, prisoners.

1512
01:25:39.659 --> 01:25:41.699
Yeah, I want them to be prisoners, I think.

1513
01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:43.260
Okay, so we're going to be a guard?

1514
01:25:43.380 --> 01:25:45.899
Yeah, don't be racist, Don.

1515
01:25:45.960 --> 01:25:48.180
We're in a make a good guard.

1516
01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:50.760
Yeah, yeah, do what I say or I'll improve.

1517
01:25:51.359 --> 01:25:53.460
Or I lay my pupa in you.

1518
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:54.180
Yeah, that's right.

1519
01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:57.659
Maybe they can communicate with them, McGaragang, beep, beep, beep, and going.

1520
01:25:57.720 --> 01:26:00.119
Oh, well, remember the word...

1521
01:26:00.180 --> 01:26:03.119
Leave the arc.

1522
01:26:03.119 --> 01:26:04.260
They could speak.

1523
01:26:05.699 --> 01:26:09.060
Best performance, Kevin, more distance.

1524
01:26:12.119 --> 01:26:17.039
Apparently, those like little beepy noises they made.

1525
01:26:17.100 --> 01:26:19.680
What they're actually saying is, I'm Joe Cross.

1526
01:26:19.739 --> 01:26:21.420
I'm talking to my friend David McAllister.

1527
01:26:21.479 --> 01:26:22.439
And then that's just sped up.

1528
01:26:22.500 --> 01:26:26.399
Yeah, and they are just saying, bliss balls, bap, bap, bap, bap.

1529
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:28.619
Oh dear.

1530
01:26:29.159 --> 01:26:31.979
I love this canine searching the crockery.

1531
01:26:32.039 --> 01:26:32.399
How?

1532
01:26:32.399 --> 01:26:35.279
He's probing the crockery.

1533
01:26:35.340 --> 01:26:42.720
I want a spinoff series with Beatrix Lemon as Romana's companion and K9 as their sidekick.

1534
01:26:42.779 --> 01:26:48.899
But they need to investigate all these sort of druidic circles in in the UK.

1535
01:26:48.899 --> 01:26:50.159
With lots of doors.

1536
01:26:50.159 --> 01:26:55.800
With a slight whiff of satific frontage.

1537
01:26:55.859 --> 01:27:00.539
I think this is actually really cleverness, whole citric, sometimes of meat and all sort of thing.

1538
01:27:00.600 --> 01:27:02.159
I just don't like her blood.

1539
01:27:02.220 --> 01:27:03.420
Like, yeah, yeah.

1540
01:27:03.539 --> 01:27:05.699
Like yours, Nathan.

1541
01:27:05.819 --> 01:27:06.659
Yeah, that's right.

1542
01:27:09.420 --> 01:27:21.359
Well, Todd, well, Todd, you may get an opportunity to play the door game, of course, because Ford of Doomsday was in our Peter Davidson poll, which is now closed, will be announcing the winner at the end of this... at the end of this episode.

1543
01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:24.600
You know what you've got to do.

1544
01:27:24.659 --> 01:27:26.279
Infinity.

1545
01:27:26.340 --> 01:27:28.079
No, it's too late by now.

1546
01:27:28.140 --> 01:27:29.939
They've already heard this. everyone's vote.

1547
01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:31.920
Todd, you'll have to tweet it.

1548
01:27:31.979 --> 01:27:36.119
Yeah, go back in time. using Hermione Granger's thing and make sure that everyone does.

1549
01:27:37.560 --> 01:27:40.380
I'll just have to organise some sort of...

1550
01:27:40.380 --> 01:27:43.079
If we have to do our infinity, I think I'm going to have a family event.

1551
01:27:43.140 --> 01:27:47.039
Speaking of Harmani Granger, I've just finished playing Lego Harry Potter.

1552
01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:48.539
Good.

1553
01:27:48.539 --> 01:27:51.119
I really enjoy Lego games. so much fun.

1554
01:27:51.180 --> 01:27:54.840
We should have Lego stones of blood. would be fantastic.

1555
01:27:54.899 --> 01:27:57.000
There is Lego Doctor Who, so, you know.

1556
01:27:57.840 --> 01:27:59.760
They're not happy.

1557
01:27:59.819 --> 01:28:05.460
I want I want the ogri to appear in Lego dimensions as a monster.

1558
01:28:06.060 --> 01:28:07.800
Oh dear.

1559
01:28:11.699 --> 01:28:13.920
Tom's having fun now.

1560
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:26.100
Um, Susan Engel, and I believe we mentioned this at the time, but was in the frame to replace Diana Rigg in the Avengers.

1561
01:28:26.220 --> 01:28:27.180
Okay.

1562
01:28:27.180 --> 01:28:29.760
Along with Wanda Ventham.

1563
01:28:29.819 --> 01:28:33.840
Both of them auditioned for the role that eventually became Tara King.

1564
01:28:33.899 --> 01:28:35.640
Imagine if it had been WandaVenth.

1565
01:28:35.699 --> 01:28:36.180
Oh my god.

1566
01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:37.859
Um, yeah.

1567
01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:46.140
And the thing is, Wanda had, in a way, had a better chance because they did decide they wanted a blonde.

1568
01:28:46.140 --> 01:28:49.979
And so they dyed Linda Fawson's hair when she got the part and it fell out.

1569
01:28:50.039 --> 01:28:51.180
So that's a wig.

1570
01:28:51.239 --> 01:28:55.260
So for her 1st 7 episodes, she wears a variety of wigs and then she wears her own hair.

1571
01:28:55.500 --> 01:29:01.199
I love the fact that they're so intense here. and they've forgotten about the oak.

1572
01:29:01.260 --> 01:29:02.640
I'm actually going to get them.

1573
01:29:02.699 --> 01:29:12.119
But they're also working out the whole Ogross system thing, which I think then cuts back to his questioning of, um, well, here now.

1574
01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:15.779
Finding out the same, similar information.

1575
01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:17.460
Yeah.

1576
01:29:17.460 --> 01:29:28.680
Do you know, it's funny when we saw that door in shot a little bit earlier, I thought, oh, that's that glass that they make out of like toffee. yeah. and there it was smashing.

1577
01:29:28.739 --> 01:29:39.060
I always expect her to be revealed to be the, the, um, she killed the child bride of, um, uh, you know that doctor episode.

1578
01:29:39.119 --> 01:29:41.460
Martha's supposed to episode with that bloodsucking vampire woman.

1579
01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:45.239
Oh, oh, you expect her to be, um, um, Anne Reid?

1580
01:29:45.300 --> 01:29:52.500
No, no, no, but what Anne Reed, did she, she, she murdered the, the, the, the child, princess of whatever, you know, wasn't she tasty?

1581
01:29:52.560 --> 01:29:56.760
I always I always think that she did something simple.

1582
01:29:57.119 --> 01:30:06.239
Yeah, no, she has that same sort of dismissive kind of She's kind of effortlessly just wicked, isn't she?

1583
01:30:06.300 --> 01:30:10.439
Gosh, that's a that's a great episode, isn't it, Smith and Jones?

1584
01:30:10.500 --> 01:30:11.159
really love it.

1585
01:30:14.220 --> 01:30:17.220
All those Michelin star sources.

1586
01:30:17.939 --> 01:30:19.680
She's so good.

1587
01:30:19.739 --> 01:30:22.199
And we've got her coming up in a couple of months.

1588
01:30:22.260 --> 01:30:22.739
We do.

1589
01:30:23.399 --> 01:30:23.880
Yeah, yeah.

1590
01:30:23.939 --> 01:30:25.619
She's in um, Gosa Fenrich.

1591
01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:32.100
Are you going to do the special edition of cursive film?

1592
01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:33.119
haven't decided yet.

1593
01:30:33.180 --> 01:30:34.560
Well, we're not commentary.

1594
01:30:34.619 --> 01:30:36.779
Well, we may do.

1595
01:30:36.840 --> 01:30:39.600
If we do, we'll put up a quick poll.

1596
01:30:39.659 --> 01:30:44.460
The thing is, you could do all the special editions as options because they're actually quite good.

1597
01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:47.520
I like, unlike the Pete special editions.

1598
01:30:47.880 --> 01:30:52.800
Um, Battlefield, Curse of Fenrick.

1599
01:30:52.859 --> 01:30:54.720
That's at least one other one, isn't there?

1600
01:30:54.840 --> 01:30:56.039
Is there Battlefield?

1601
01:30:56.100 --> 01:30:57.600
Yeah, there is, yeah.

1602
01:30:57.659 --> 01:31:04.739
It's got that stuff with the um, the spiral staircase and the, the terrible, like, Christmas lights wrapped around it.

1603
01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:06.000
Look how long his hair is.

1604
01:31:06.060 --> 01:31:07.800
It's sticking up.

1605
01:31:07.859 --> 01:31:10.560
There's a special edition of Paradise Towers.

1606
01:31:10.619 --> 01:31:14.880
You know, the doctor walks out and goes, hello, and then it cuts to the doctor coming back in with Mel going, hello.

1607
01:31:16.199 --> 01:31:17.699
Goodbye.

1608
01:31:17.699 --> 01:31:19.560
Not a fan. not a fan Todd.

1609
01:31:19.619 --> 01:31:20.520
I'm not a fan?

1610
01:31:20.579 --> 01:31:21.659
No, what story this season?

1611
01:31:21.720 --> 01:31:24.119
I love what I tell her.

1612
01:31:24.180 --> 01:31:25.800
I love that effect.

1613
01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:31.020
Yeah, but when they stand, you know, with the arms, like, like, statues.

1614
01:31:31.079 --> 01:31:35.579
Yeah, didn't they do that effect in Dragonfire?

1615
01:31:35.640 --> 01:31:40.199
Well, no, I was going to say, Monks in a Pyramid. was it called?

1616
01:31:40.260 --> 01:31:40.800
Oh, yes.

1617
01:31:40.859 --> 01:31:42.000
Life of the Land.

1618
01:31:42.060 --> 01:31:43.859
Pyramid at the end of the world.

1619
01:31:43.979 --> 01:31:50.880
No, no, the next one where they like, they've got the, like, they stop the bullets with their little sort of lattice work.

1620
01:31:50.939 --> 01:31:53.939
So with your face mats, just repainted.

1621
01:31:54.060 --> 01:31:55.979
Her brain might be damaged.

1622
01:31:57.239 --> 01:32:00.180
This is not Vivian Fay.

1623
01:32:03.060 --> 01:32:04.859
That's brilliant.

1624
01:32:04.920 --> 01:32:05.460
It's James.

1625
01:32:05.880 --> 01:32:07.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah. dog has just been terribly clever.

1626
01:32:07.800 --> 01:32:09.420
A great seal of...

1627
01:32:09.479 --> 01:32:10.079
And you know what?

1628
01:32:10.140 --> 01:32:13.800
That painted floor almost works as a great.

1629
01:32:13.859 --> 01:32:19.380
You know, I've only just really looked at it and noticed it's not actually a cut through grate.

1630
01:32:19.439 --> 01:32:20.279
It is just painted on.

1631
01:32:20.340 --> 01:32:21.420
Are you kidding me?

1632
01:32:21.420 --> 01:32:21.960
It's not a great.

1633
01:32:22.020 --> 01:32:24.479
They've just laid...

1634
01:32:24.600 --> 01:32:28.199
Yeah, no, so did I. They've laid great over it and sprayed painted.

1635
01:32:28.260 --> 01:32:30.899
Yeah, yeah, in sections. that's clever.

1636
01:32:31.020 --> 01:32:31.439
Yeah.

1637
01:32:31.500 --> 01:32:33.899
Because they've got the studio floor. underneath it.

1638
01:32:33.899 --> 01:32:34.680
Yeah.

1639
01:32:34.739 --> 01:32:39.300
I, yeah, I literally only just noticed because I thought I was looking at the VFA.

1640
01:32:39.300 --> 01:32:40.199
I thought it was previously.

1641
01:32:40.260 --> 01:32:42.479
They're too good Foley on it as well, don't they?

1642
01:32:42.539 --> 01:32:44.159
Yeah, they do metal footsteps.

1643
01:32:44.220 --> 01:32:49.680
I thought it was like, you know how I mentioned at the time they kept using that scaffolding, like all those different stories.

1644
01:32:49.739 --> 01:32:52.619
I just thought it was like some of that scaffolding down. over the floor.

1645
01:32:52.680 --> 01:33:03.840
It's a bit like on Red Dwarf, they'll end up using corridors from alien and aliens as walls and floors, which is incredibly effective from series 3 onwards.

1646
01:33:03.899 --> 01:33:15.180
And there's a little kind of brace under the chair. next to Cesera Diplos, which is just kind of a design feature that you might expect to see if that chair is in some way modular or it can be removed.

1647
01:33:15.239 --> 01:33:18.720
Or it's like a... an entry port.

1648
01:33:18.779 --> 01:33:20.159
Yeah, the under floor area.

1649
01:33:21.119 --> 01:33:29.399
My favourite thing about this is, you know, there's all these penalties that are 1000s of years and she's sentenced to serve them consecutively, I think.

1650
01:33:29.460 --> 01:33:31.439
Yeah, that's actually imprisonment.

1651
01:33:31.500 --> 01:33:33.300
Yes. consecutively.

1652
01:33:33.359 --> 01:33:34.260
And look at her face.

1653
01:33:34.319 --> 01:33:34.800
Look at this.

1654
01:33:37.319 --> 01:33:39.239
Fabulous work.

1655
01:33:39.420 --> 01:33:44.819
So I suppose she does a 1500 year sentence 1st and then another one.

1656
01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:46.979
Yeah, and then the indefinite.

1657
01:33:47.100 --> 01:33:53.640
What I love about this is the fact that, um, They've obviously cast the stone, right?

1658
01:33:53.699 --> 01:33:58.199
And so she's then got an act to make it look like she's actually in the shape of the stone.

1659
01:33:59.159 --> 01:34:01.380
Oh, I like her hat.

1660
01:34:01.439 --> 01:34:06.539
And I do, I also like how the key to time part of it is just throwaway.

1661
01:34:06.600 --> 01:34:07.260
It's just...

1662
01:34:07.260 --> 01:34:09.720
We almost found this thing.

1663
01:34:09.779 --> 01:34:10.920
We forgot about a...

1664
01:34:11.039 --> 01:34:13.979
I understand there and do this and there we go.

1665
01:34:14.699 --> 01:34:20.039
It is it's remarkably effective though, you know, you are working backwards from it.

1666
01:34:20.100 --> 01:34:22.859
But yeah, yeah, the whole key to time thing.

1667
01:34:22.920 --> 01:34:26.699
They have been talking about how it's here but it's not here and it's here, but it's not here.

1668
01:34:26.760 --> 01:34:34.079
So, you know, it then ties in with the hyperspace idea that hyperspace, you're occupying the same point, but not the same dimension.

1669
01:34:34.140 --> 01:34:39.960
Yeah, and it's kind of like you forget that they're even looking for it and then he grabs it and you're like, ah, aha.

1670
01:34:40.500 --> 01:34:43.680
And he lets the doctor be clever, doesn't he?

1671
01:34:43.739 --> 01:34:50.579
Yeah, yeah. and uses it to send the Magara back because he fixed their ship.

1672
01:34:50.640 --> 01:34:52.979
But I mean, that's, I mean, to their ship, is that why?

1673
01:34:53.039 --> 01:34:58.020
Like, is that why or was it something to do with the property of the?

1674
01:34:58.380 --> 01:35:10.319
Yeah, I always thought it was to do with the property at the segment because they do mention that it has the power to change objects or at least their appearance. or fix high up loose ends of the plot.

1675
01:35:10.380 --> 01:35:13.199
I love the fact that she has to survey everything all over again.

1676
01:35:13.439 --> 01:35:18.060
Oh, gee, that looks a bit wrong, doesn't it?

1677
01:35:18.119 --> 01:35:19.319
There's a nipple there.

1678
01:35:19.380 --> 01:35:21.239
Left nipple, clearly visible in that.

1679
01:35:25.199 --> 01:35:27.420
She's not wearing a bar.

1680
01:35:27.960 --> 01:35:29.760
You know what, though?

1681
01:35:29.760 --> 01:35:34.800
I do wonder if that is a feminist statement, like a deliberate...

1682
01:35:34.859 --> 01:35:40.920
I think there are, there are, there are mentions, like, there are interviews with Tom where he says, and she refused to abroad.

1683
01:35:40.979 --> 01:35:43.739
He actually, she was, she was a wonderful woman.

1684
01:35:43.800 --> 01:35:45.060
Refused to write, right?

1685
01:35:45.119 --> 01:35:45.479
Yeah.

1686
01:35:45.539 --> 01:35:47.880
And, you know, I that's probably why he liked her so much.

1687
01:35:50.939 --> 01:35:51.840
Ray.

1688
01:35:51.899 --> 01:35:53.699
Oh, isn't this lovely?

1689
01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:56.220
Oh, great line and...

1690
01:35:56.220 --> 01:35:58.680
Lovely delivery.

1691
01:35:58.739 --> 01:36:00.899
Oh, that's wonderful.

1692
01:36:01.020 --> 01:36:01.800
Bless you.

1693
01:36:02.039 --> 01:36:07.739
But no, I do I do think if, you know, if she saw that as an important part of her character.

1694
01:36:07.800 --> 01:36:08.279
And you know what?

1695
01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:14.819
You can believe that because she is this female academic who has obviously had to fight hard to be taken seriously by sexist men.

1696
01:36:14.819 --> 01:36:20.939
So, you know, the idea of quote unquote, I'm simplifying the bra burning feminist.

1697
01:36:21.359 --> 01:36:25.020
Did she put them back into that refrigerator?

1698
01:36:25.079 --> 01:36:27.300
Yeah, they're in a limbo cupboard in limbo.

1699
01:36:27.359 --> 01:36:29.460
The limbo area.

1700
01:36:30.060 --> 01:36:30.899
It's wonderful, isn't it?

1701
01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:33.659
Because again, he can't do the thing because he's more...

1702
01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:34.680
Look at it, look at it.

1703
01:36:34.739 --> 01:36:35.340
Look at her.

1704
01:36:36.420 --> 01:36:38.039
Oh, my God.

1705
01:36:38.100 --> 01:36:39.659
We get a subtitle where hesitating.

1706
01:36:42.479 --> 01:36:44.819
The final shot should have been.

1707
01:36:44.939 --> 01:36:47.520
Yeah, I agree.

1708
01:36:47.579 --> 01:36:49.079
Yeah, it would have been wonderful.

1709
01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:50.220
Oh, thank you, Mary.

1710
01:36:50.279 --> 01:36:51.239
Thank you. you, Mary.

1711
01:36:51.300 --> 01:36:52.020
We miss you, Mary.

1712
01:36:52.079 --> 01:36:52.979
Beatrix.

1713
01:36:53.039 --> 01:36:53.340
Lovely.

1714
01:36:53.760 --> 01:36:56.699
Well that was fantastic. was fantastic.

1715
01:36:56.760 --> 01:36:58.199
Susan Engle is still with us?

1716
01:36:58.260 --> 01:36:59.640
Yes. and still acting?

1717
01:36:59.699 --> 01:37:01.020
She's a silver fox.

1718
01:37:01.140 --> 01:37:03.720
Gerald Cross, David McAllister, right?

1719
01:37:03.779 --> 01:37:04.319
There you go.

1720
01:37:04.380 --> 01:37:08.279
She used the 3rd segment to turn herself into a silver fox.

1721
01:37:09.359 --> 01:37:13.380
So yeah, that brings us to the end of Stone to Blood.

1722
01:37:13.439 --> 01:37:21.840
And I am pleased to announce that at the end of season 25, we hope, commitments pending, we will be releasing our commentary on...

1723
01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:23.399
Enlightenment.

1724
01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:32.220
But next week we will be back with remembrance of the Daleks as well as our nominations for our Colin Baker commentaries.

1725
01:37:32.279 --> 01:37:33.000
So do come back for that.

1726
01:37:33.060 --> 01:37:41.579
In the meantime, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entirety.sexy, Flight Through Entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1727
01:37:41.640 --> 01:37:43.500
Over on Bondfinger.

1728
01:37:43.739 --> 01:37:48.119
We are nearing the end of the Pierce Brosnan era of James Bond.

1729
01:37:48.180 --> 01:37:53.760
You can find that at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

1730
01:37:53.819 --> 01:37:57.899
Until next time, may none of the stones around your tent suck your blood.

1731
01:37:58.020 --> 01:37:59.520
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1732
01:37:59.579 --> 01:37:59.939
Good night.

1733
01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:00.779
See you soon.

1734
01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:01.920
Ta-ta.

1735
01:38:02.039 --> 01:38:03.539
Oh, James.

1736
01:38:03.779 --> 01:38:06.060
I was waiting for that to come in.