WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:54:08

1
00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:58.500
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who promises you unlimited suet pudding.

2
00:00:58.560 --> 00:00:59.100
I'm Brendan.

3
00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:04.439
I'm Nathan, and I'm a curious amoeboid with oddly grafted features.

4
00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.019
Just what you'd expect to find in 1963 shortage.

5
00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:11.459
It's remembrance of the Daleks.

6
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.260
Can I just be Pamela?

7
00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:36.060
I'd like to start this episode with a correction from a friend of the podcast.

8
00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:36.719
I do apologise.

9
00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:42.719
I've looked through Twitter and I can't find the original tweet, but it turns out that Doctor Who last season did not go up against Coronation Street.

10
00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:47.939
It was went out on Mondays in the UK, but this year it is going up against Coronation Street.

11
00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:48.420
Really?

12
00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:51.599
Yeah, it's against all Lawrence Miles and Tutwood received wisdom.

13
00:01:51.659 --> 00:01:55.739
Yes I know. perish that those 2 would move him. make an error.

14
00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:58.439
Rock's the faction paradox to its foundation.

15
00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:04.200
I think it's also a good time to mention Jody Bleeding Whittaker, gentlemen.

16
00:02:04.260 --> 00:02:05.219
How exciting.

17
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:06.540
I'm terrible excited.

18
00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:07.379
Is that her middle name?

19
00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:08.099
I thought it was David.

20
00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.259
Or Davo to her mate.

21
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.560
Um...

22
00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:16.199
Yes, Borian Levine.

23
00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:18.780
I don't think there's a lot to be said, but at the end of the day.

24
00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:34.259
J.D. Whittaker's been gone now and we're done. we've said everything My friend Drew, I'm not sure if she listens to the podcast, but she put up a wonderful imagined conversation between the various doctors, the 1st doctor that just says, what are you talking about, change?

25
00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:35.099
Who are you people?

26
00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:38.819
Well, I mean, that is exactly the point.

27
00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:45.180
You know, people keep talking about the doctor being a shape shifting alien, which I just think is kind of ridiculous.

28
00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:48.479
It's just a person who gets recast every year.

29
00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.560
The idea that there's no one's told him.

30
00:02:52.620 --> 00:02:56.159
There's some sensible in universe reason for it.

31
00:02:56.219 --> 00:02:57.300
It's just absurd.

32
00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:04.379
They don't invent regeneration until, you know, well and truly into the 1970s after it's kind of happened twice.

33
00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:12.120
And, uh, it's just a way of getting rid of Bill Hartnell and casting Pat Trout and there's nothing sort of really...

34
00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:16.080
And then a woman, if you're, yes.

35
00:03:16.139 --> 00:03:22.919
I was going to say Tom Baker, but no, if you're the lovely founder of our lovely program, David Williams slash Sydney Newman.

36
00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:24.539
Yes, that's right.

37
00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:28.439
I wonder, that's an interesting combination, fiction effort, isn't it?

38
00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:31.080
I'm fiction for Sydney here.

39
00:03:31.139 --> 00:03:33.360
The funny thing is I...

40
00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:34.560
She can come back as a woman.

41
00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:43.860
I think for this podcast, I would block you off that we need to celebrate the introduction of Jody, Whitaker, by supposing what would other characters be like?

42
00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.400
I would like to recast the nemesis as Brian Blessed.

43
00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:51.840
And both is lady painful. of my life, fire of my loin.

44
00:03:51.900 --> 00:03:53.580
I want to say that.

45
00:03:55.620 --> 00:03:57.780
Have you never wondered who he is?

46
00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:03.060
I'm 57 and I shag everything.

47
00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.280
You know, he said that too, my llama.

48
00:04:05.340 --> 00:04:06.419
We've all been discussing it this week.

49
00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:07.740
I'm 57.

50
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:08.699
I can't keep it.

51
00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:11.939
The statues are alive.

52
00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:16.500
Look, I'm...

53
00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:18.720
The thing is, I'm in the...

54
00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:22.319
I think wonderful situation of I've never seen Jodie Whittaker in anything.

55
00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:24.300
I saw her last night and hardly noticed her.

56
00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:26.819
She's in Titanic slash Dunkirk.

57
00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:28.319
Oh, right. whatever.

58
00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:29.639
She's a Geordie, isn't she?

59
00:04:29.699 --> 00:04:30.660
she's northern.

60
00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.459
She does a northern accent in a film.

61
00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:33.480
She is actually northern.

62
00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:36.060
I've seen her interviewed on a breakfast Prague.

63
00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.040
She's Gracie Fields.

64
00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:39.240
We're going to be hearing.

65
00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:42.540
Because that's but just threaten the world or the universe sung out there.

66
00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:50.579
Well, she does that accent in adult life skills, but I watched her in Attack the Block last night and I thought, I thought that was really fun.

67
00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:52.199
That might be my pick of the week later.

68
00:04:52.259 --> 00:04:54.120
And, um, you.

69
00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:58.439
And she's just doing a sort of standard sort of London accent.

70
00:04:58.500 --> 00:04:59.220
Nice accent.

71
00:04:59.279 --> 00:04:59.519
Yeah.

72
00:04:59.579 --> 00:05:01.560
I'm actually more concerned.

73
00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:03.480
This is an honest to goodness.

74
00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:04.800
I am more concerned.

75
00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:07.439
I'm so bloody relieved at the casting.

76
00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:08.879
You know, it's 8 years too late.

77
00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:10.800
We've all, we've all thought it and said it.

78
00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:15.899
It does feel like a drastic repitch for falling ratings, but it's about bloody time.

79
00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.019
But my real concern is what's she going to do with the accent?

80
00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:20.399
I really am.

81
00:05:20.459 --> 00:05:21.120
I'm really...

82
00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:21.839
Russell said it.

83
00:05:21.899 --> 00:05:24.300
I don't want to hear us rattling around the Midlands.

84
00:05:24.420 --> 00:05:28.079
Yeah, well, we've had I mean, we've just had a Scottish accent.

85
00:05:28.139 --> 00:05:30.300
I think probably they'll go traditional.

86
00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:31.139
I hope so.

87
00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.740
I'm looking to do Lumley. like a super posh accent.

88
00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:36.480
Well, because, you know, it's Canon now.

89
00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:38.879
Yeah, the 13th doctor's a woman again.

90
00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:39.420
Yeah.

91
00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:44.100
It was a raised eyebrow from radio.

92
00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:52.800
But, um, I, as I say, I haven't seen her in anything, and I'm actually kind of determined not to, because with Matt Smith, I'd never...

93
00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:55.319
Not going to watch you and Ian Levine, you're refusing to.

94
00:05:56.459 --> 00:05:59.579
I'm going to see the program, but Matt Smith and Christopher Eccleston.

95
00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.819
I'd never seen in anything before I watched them in Doctor Who.

96
00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:10.079
So I came I came to Doctor Who without expectations, whereas Peter Capaldi, I was familiar with, for, you know, he did an early Poirot.

97
00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:11.459
He did guest spots in lots of things.

98
00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:13.439
He did the thick of it. familiar with all that.

99
00:06:13.500 --> 00:06:16.680
Brendan personally with vile Scottish himself.

100
00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:18.899
I wish whenever I see him interviewed.

101
00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:20.339
He just seemed so lovely.

102
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:27.899
I think I've told the story where I almost ran it, literally ran into him in Coffin Garden when I was living there in lush.

103
00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:29.160
I know.

104
00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:30.480
I'm waiting for the euphemism.

105
00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.100
I was right there.

106
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:34.319
You didn't even have to pause and draw breath.

107
00:06:34.379 --> 00:06:38.399
I was bounding down if I was he was coming up and even though I almost ran into him.

108
00:06:38.459 --> 00:06:40.620
He stood off to one side. and he said, oh, I'm so sorry, please.

109
00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.920
Please, would you care to share my bars?

110
00:06:43.980 --> 00:06:46.860
Given that he was only Malcolm Tucker at the time?

111
00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:53.160
I fully expected to be given some instructions on how to do impossible things to my anatomy in a Scottish accent.

112
00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:54.660
And he didn't If you have suggestions.

113
00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.220
Anatomy, please do writing on a piece of soap.

114
00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:10.800
But, you know, I thought to myself, oh, I should go off and watch Broadchurch, and I should watch Attack the Block, and I should watch all these things she's in, and then I thought, no, wait, and have the 1st thing you see, Jodie, were to get in, be Doctor Who.

115
00:07:10.860 --> 00:07:19.199
So it's it's a matter of, you know, if if Rod Sudley said to me, oh, I fancy watching Broadchurch, I'd watch it, but I'm not going to go out of my way to watch anything Jodie Whittaker.

116
00:07:19.259 --> 00:07:20.459
I want to come to it completely fresh.

117
00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:22.439
So a long time to wait, though.

118
00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:28.620
Bring back the doctor. don't hesitate Have you seen the people on Twitter have started writing doctor in address?

119
00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:32.459
Dr. in a dress?

120
00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:35.759
He's a doctor, not a doctor.

121
00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:37.980
Make an address.

122
00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:40.139
Bring back his cock.

123
00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:41.639
We won't take lessons.

124
00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:52.019
Yeah, so should we have a little Delphic bay leaf chewing moment, oracle moment and say what we feel is going to happen with the show?

125
00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:52.860
Is that correct?

126
00:07:52.860 --> 00:07:54.600
appropriate thing, do this and that?

127
00:07:54.660 --> 00:08:00.600
I think my favourite daily match headline has been 1st Doctor Who story with Jodie Whittaker will just be men telling her how time travel works.

128
00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:20.459
But no, I think a wonderful way to do it would be if We do say get some returning characters maybe Kate and all is good, and if they do react differently to the doctor who then uses that as a point to make, no, you don't have to react differently because I'm a woman.

129
00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:21.660
I'm still the same person.

130
00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.339
I am still the doctor.

131
00:08:23.459 --> 00:08:26.040
I think Kate would say you've based yourself on me.

132
00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:35.039
And well, not only that, but remember, Bill's last words that the doctor heard were, you know how I'm into girls and people around my own age?

133
00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:36.480
I'm glad you know that.

134
00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:39.240
I thought he said, I thought he heard stay.

135
00:08:39.299 --> 00:08:40.200
I thought you said stay warm.

136
00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:43.679
That ended on the cutting room floor, didn't it?

137
00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:44.879
Dirty old mug.

138
00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:46.019
Because that's the thing.

139
00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:52.559
I think they are going to address the change in gender. somehow in the dialogue and in the narrative. you've hit it right there.

140
00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:53.279
It's actually built.

141
00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:56.580
You say that, I just think, will your partner say that?

142
00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:58.799
Yes, yes.

143
00:08:58.799 --> 00:08:59.519
Not really.

144
00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:01.019
I still hear that as William Hartner.

145
00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.960
And he could he could carry it off too.

146
00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:05.399
Yeah, no, that's why.

147
00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:07.980
Just I don't mind that there's an excuse.

148
00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:14.639
There's a reason that he picks up faces and that he picks up accents in the same way. the only way to excuse David Tennant.

149
00:09:15.779 --> 00:09:23.700
Well, I mean, I'm more interested in seeing what Chris Chibnall's going to do because I kill it, obviously.

150
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.940
Yeah, I don't think it's that good a writer, but he's...

151
00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:27.600
Is it wounds?

152
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.019
Cyberwoman person, but also the power of three.

153
00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.480
Yeah, the power of 3 is pretty good.

154
00:09:33.539 --> 00:09:36.299
Yeah, but how much of that was Moffat fingering?

155
00:09:36.299 --> 00:09:37.799
With his finger of omega.

156
00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:39.240
Moffat slash.

157
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.440
You know, it seemed a step above the stuff Moff was doing that year, I have to say.

158
00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:45.240
To say, I'm in like power of three.

159
00:09:45.299 --> 00:09:45.720
Yeah.

160
00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:47.039
It was homey again.

161
00:09:47.100 --> 00:09:49.019
It had people that we liked.

162
00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.419
Actually, that's what I want to see.

163
00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:56.279
Whoever the companion is, and I think they are going to go from a male primary companion.

164
00:09:56.340 --> 00:09:57.960
They may also bring in a female companion.

165
00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.179
John and Julian, yes.

166
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.779
Yeah, whoever the companion is, yeah. want them to have a family again.

167
00:10:04.139 --> 00:10:05.940
Really good legs.

168
00:10:06.059 --> 00:10:09.659
Yeah, bring back a young Jamie type in a...

169
00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.320
He could wear skimpy clothes and be hot and ask dumb questions.

170
00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:15.120
What's happening, doctor?

171
00:10:15.179 --> 00:10:16.259
That be awesome.

172
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.080
Let's bring back Jeff from the 11th hour.

173
00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:20.279
Yes.

174
00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:21.000
Yeah, why not?

175
00:10:21.059 --> 00:10:22.500
The one with the one with the laptop.

176
00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:24.779
She'll remember that too.

177
00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:26.700
She'll dash right.

178
00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.059
Didn't they tell you to get a girlfriend, Jeff?

179
00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:30.840
Jump at my box.

180
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:36.600
Well, we're about 3 hours into our...

181
00:10:36.659 --> 00:10:37.740
Remembrance of the Daleks.

182
00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:42.120
First story with Ben Aronovich. as a writer.

183
00:10:42.179 --> 00:10:43.620
Have you read his other stuff?

184
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:47.639
I really like his London plodder books. you read those?

185
00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:49.860
No, like Rippers of London and things.

186
00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:51.360
There'll be Rivers of London.

187
00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:56.519
It's a great speech in Parliament by Sir Ian Benerangovic Paisley.

188
00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:58.500
No, they're really good.

189
00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:09.179
It's kind of like, you know, slight psychic and woo-woo stuff, but it's a, so it's a crossover and it's very 270s, 80s TV cop show with, with Doctor Who mashed up in it.

190
00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.600
Well, the novelisation was amazingly good.

191
00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:13.200
I remember that.

192
00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:15.059
It is, sorry, tear once.

193
00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:16.799
It is the best target novelisation.

194
00:11:16.860 --> 00:11:18.539
I think it is.

195
00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.980
Well, it has, I think the new adventures owe a lot to it.

196
00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:24.480
Yeah, it wouldn't have commented.

197
00:11:24.539 --> 00:11:25.139
Absolutely.

198
00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:38.039
And also, not that I think it's a direct influence by any means, but if you haven't read, say, the novelisation of Remembrance of the Daleks, and I should mention, where about the 5th Australian podcast doing a remembrance of the Daleks episode this month?

199
00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:39.000
No.

200
00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:40.500
Like new to who's done one.

201
00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.080
I think Crinoid podcast has done one in the UK.

202
00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:45.720
Just serendipity that all these people are doing those.

203
00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:48.539
But I was going to say that...

204
00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.440
But Game of Thrones, the Game of Thrones.

205
00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:57.480
He's doing a podcast on Remembrance of the Daleks because the books are told.

206
00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:00.720
Each chapter is from the perspective of a different character.

207
00:12:00.779 --> 00:12:07.740
So instead of having chapter one, chapter 2, chapter 3, you've got Arya one and then a few other people and then Arya 2 and then a few other people, Arya 3.

208
00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:09.720
I have no idea what he's talking about.

209
00:12:09.779 --> 00:12:16.980
It's the way Christopher Nolan makes films and the new Dunkirk one is the same thing he's documented before and he talks about it as time comparisons.

210
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:19.379
But yes, you reshoot the scene from a different perspective.

211
00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:24.659
It's confusing for a viewer, but as the narrative goes on, you feel even more drawn in.

212
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:25.559
Well, that's the idea.

213
00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:27.240
You either do that or you're not off.

214
00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:56.940
Well, that it really works in this novelisation of this story, because we are constantly shifting characters and we're getting some insight into them, and it just shows how much thought Beneronovich put into his characters, because as explored, getting ahead of ourselves, later in the countermeasures spinoff, which features characters from this, Rachel, Professor Rachel Jensen, is Jewish, and that comes up in the novel and her feelings 20 years after the war and what have you.

215
00:12:57.539 --> 00:13:02.279
And also comes up with these spoiler alert racism of Mike Smith.

216
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:05.039
You know the original character boots in this, don't you?

217
00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:10.080
Well, I can always just 1st off say this is so much better than unit ever was.

218
00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:11.279
Yeah.

219
00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:16.500
And that's a little bit embarrassment-y to say that, but it really, really, really is.

220
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:23.820
But before we talk about antecedents, we should really talk about the characters because Rachel was, of course, written as Dr. Rachel Israel.

221
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:26.220
Yeah, yeah, it was really sort of pointed.

222
00:13:26.220 --> 00:13:28.919
Yes, just in case you missed it the 1st time around.

223
00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:31.740
And of course, Ratcliffe was Mr. Gummer.

224
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:32.820
Do you know who Gumma was?

225
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:34.620
I had to write it down myself.

226
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:44.519
Um, but he was, um, Industry secretary, John Selwyn Gummer, and he loudly and formally resigned from the Church of England when they ordained Dawn French.

227
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:51.360
It is amazingly, amazingly good, isn't it?

228
00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:53.879
Like it's a massive, massive jumping quality.

229
00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:57.179
I didn't think season 24 was bad.

230
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:58.200
But do you remember, Richard?

231
00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:02.399
They actually showed remembrance of the Daleks with season 24.

232
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.460
So we 1st saw it tagged after Dragonfire.

233
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:06.360
And we didn't expect it.

234
00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:09.960
And it was so good instantly, just so amazing.

235
00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:13.860
And it manages to constantly reference things.

236
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.340
So it, it does unit only well, you know.

237
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:31.019
And, you know, like I loved unit, unit was, you know, the family, you know, back in the 1970s. it was sort of sweet and fun and it's comfort food, but it was always a sort of uh sort of incompetent television army.

238
00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.200
Whereas this is it sort of reimagined as something else.

239
00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:38.580
But this is absolutely packed full of references to previous Doctor Who.

240
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.740
Without, you know, requiring you to have the Doctor Who Monster book on hand.

241
00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:45.960
Well, that's a bit of a relief, isn't it?

242
00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:55.980
Because it's entirely about It's entirely about contemporary Britain's take on the present and the past at the same time, just like Christopher Nolan.

243
00:14:56.039 --> 00:15:12.059
Yeah, like Ben Aronovich said, one of his purposes in setting the story in 1963 is he didn't want to sugarcoat the past and he wanted to point out that, okay, yeah, we defeated the Nazis and one of ideas with the Daleks was Nazism.

244
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.240
We also discussed that communism was an influence way back in episode one.

245
00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:25.440
But Benoranovich's perspective was, that doesn't mean we defeated racism, and that still existed in the 1960s, and he said to Andrew Cartmel, I'm not going to sugarcoat it, and Cartmel said, yep, brilliant.

246
00:15:25.500 --> 00:15:27.779
And we get these dynamics between the characters.

247
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:35.580
There's a deleted scene between Rachel, Allison and Mike, where they're waiting for Ace to come out of the boarding house.

248
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:42.059
Rachel and Alison kind of tease Mike that he fancies Ace and Mike says, oh, not yet.

249
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:42.779
Yeah, I know.

250
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:46.500
But not yet, but I want to know more about her and then say, what do you mean?

251
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.600
And he says, well, I wouldn't want it to be foreign, would I?

252
00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:51.059
That's cut out though, isn't it?

253
00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:51.779
It's cut out.

254
00:15:51.840 --> 00:16:06.480
And I think it's a good thing it's cut out because it makes his, it makes his bigotry a bit more nuanced, but at the same time, that is something someone would have said without, without shame in the 19th.

255
00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:07.019
It is.

256
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:12.960
And also, and it's nice that Mike's racism is so received from his mum.

257
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:16.740
We need to talk about who his mum is too, because she crops up quite a bit.

258
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.779
She's Mrs. Bigmead.

259
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:20.399
Kathleen bit me.

260
00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:24.480
No, she may not be our Mrs. B. But she, but bid me did use her.

261
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:25.799
So said, oh, God.

262
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:35.460
Aronovich wasn't the only one looking at the early 60s and certainly around this Bay of Pigs, Kennedy's assassination time. just happened to be 25 years, but a lot of other contemporary fiction TV shows.

263
00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:39.360
Britain just generally politically socially was looking at this stuff.

264
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:50.580
And as we've talked about Judge Dread, and we've talked about Alan Moore, and we've talked about films of the time, scandal comes out 2 years later about the Profumo affair with Ian McKellen, as John Profumo.

265
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.240
But not in a gray, a lovely long gray curtain.

266
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:55.500
We just have the outline around.

267
00:16:55.559 --> 00:17:08.700
British culture was reanalyzing its post-war past, and finally, not as the golden age that our parents professed it had been, you know, and there were people like Nathan and I who were born a little while ago.

268
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:18.599
I think that Mike's final funeral is actually a funeral for the blanket blinkered optimism of our parents' generation about this time.

269
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:24.180
We're reappraising it in a truthful way, and you're seeing it all across TV and film at the time.

270
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:33.119
The novel is clearer about that because it deals with the characters, thoughts about the war.

271
00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:35.339
Like, think about the title, right?

272
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:40.559
By this point, you have to have blank off the Daleks ever since.

273
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:45.599
But you have Genesis Destiny, and then it's our word of the Daleks, isn't it, after that?

274
00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:53.400
Yeah, ritual reticule of the Daleks. relocation, rehash of the Daleks, repetition of the Daleks.

275
00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.019
Reticular vector gate.

276
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.380
But, um, Recidivism.

277
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:06.420
Remembrance is, because it ends with a funeral, it sort of makes sense. on the in the televis show, it doesn't really make sense as a title.

278
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:11.220
Apart from the fact that we're remembering the origins of Doctor Who as a show.

279
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:16.559
But in the novel, what we're remembering is the war, like we're remembering the Second World War.

280
00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:21.359
It's telling, you know, TV of the period is so post-war, isn't it?

281
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:30.359
You know, even when you watch Fulty Towers, you know, the war is still there in people's minds and that's in the early 70s, you know.

282
00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:34.799
So it's an important thing in the lives of everyone.

283
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:43.200
And that having the villains literally be Nazis is, or, you know, fascists, British fascists, is fantastic.

284
00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:55.500
And, and for the novel, I think Aronovic invents Manisha, doesn't, yeah, Ace's friend Manisha, who will become a bigger part of her story next season and through to the new adventures.

285
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.359
Yeah, yeah.

286
00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:12.000
So you've got, you know, like her Asian friend who's flat is fire bombed by sort of white supremacist by skinheads in the 1980s and uh, you know, that's why Ace takes that thing so, so seriously.

287
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:25.559
And I love the scene where she finds the no coloured sign because it's the kind of thing that Doctor Who hasn't had, you know, Doctor Who very rarely goes back to the recent past, it very...

288
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:26.220
No.

289
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:27.900
That was quite an issue at the time.

290
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.119
You know, that's the scene that GNT wanted to cut out.

291
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:32.640
Yeah, because it was too political, I imagine.

292
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:47.220
And yet when they took it to show it to Jonathan Powell, famously, um, Cartmel, tell us a story that Jonathan Powell took a phone call during the episode and so it was turned away from the screen when that scene went on and Andrew Cartmel did something that he found out later.

293
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.240
You just do not know.

294
00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:49.079
You're not allowed to do it, yeah.

295
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:51.599
He grabbed the remote and said to Jonathan, I'm so sorry.

296
00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:54.660
I think it's very important you see the scene, rewound it and played it.

297
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.720
And at the end of the episode, Jonathan Powell said, thank you for rewinding it.

298
00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.700
That scene is the point of the episode.

299
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:01.019
She should have torn the sign up.

300
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.180
And then punched Mrs. Smith in the face.

301
00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:19.619
It is such a powerful moment, especially because, you know, we've seen with Ace already, just in 2 stories, that she is the kind of person who will take actions before she considers them, not all the time.

302
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.259
But the thing is, she goes to challenge Mrs. Smith and then kind of just goes.

303
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:31.980
Besides, yeah, what's the point, you know, and I'm going out for some fresh air, like, no, I can't I can't be here with you.

304
00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:34.500
I would rather go fight a bunch of Daleks.

305
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.740
And I think, which is a proper British or small.

306
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.220
Yeah, it is actually.

307
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:50.039
There's the thing of taking on the tune. also a very wartime thing of, you know, there was candour in not in non-disclosure.

308
00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:52.920
So yeah, intimacy was expressed by what you didn't say.

309
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:55.319
Oh, I shouldn't say, it just me, intimacy.

310
00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:59.940
But understanding and compassion was conveyed by what isn't said.

311
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.619
As a kid watching that?

312
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.920
I didn't know what coloured meant in that sense.

313
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.920
So my parents had to explain it to me.

314
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:12.240
And I think I said during a live tweet, I think that was my 1st knowledge of what racism was.

315
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:19.680
We kind of said last season that Doctor Who is being they're attempting to make Doctor Who on several levels again.

316
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:27.359
And here they're more capturing the child teenage and older audience, I think, in this story than last year.

317
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:39.960
And I think the whole story sends a really good message about racism, especially when Mike tries to justify his actions and uses the words, you know, you've got to keep everyone out to give your own people a chance and Ace just rounds on him.

318
00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:40.799
Yeah.

319
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.180
And, you know, it makes it clear.

320
00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:46.079
Five of them rapidly. makes it clear that I could have liked you.

321
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:49.200
We could have been something, but...

322
00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:52.559
It could have been someone, but you just keep rattling on about Adam Faith.

323
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:55.140
These pretty blonde hair.

324
00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:56.700
I've got blonde hair.

325
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:58.140
He freaks out and fake.

326
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:05.279
But that's what makes this so good is that the Daleks are having a racial divide.

327
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:07.140
Rachel Divine.

328
00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:09.599
Rachel Divine. great, isn't it?

329
00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:11.579
Make sure Sue is crisis.

330
00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:14.400
Rachel Panama.

331
00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:15.779
No, we're not going there again.

332
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.740
What do you call it?

333
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.019
What do you call a divisive article in a tabloid?

334
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:20.279
Miranda Divide.

335
00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:20.519
Okay.

336
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:24.000
The Daleks have a racial divide.

337
00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:27.180
And you know, we're as humans go, oh, I could see the viewers for the listener in the UK.

338
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:27.660
Yeah.

339
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:29.940
And we go, oh, we're so much better than Daleks.

340
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:30.539
It's like, really?

341
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:30.900
Are we?

342
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:44.220
You know, we've got a boarding house who doesn't allow, quote unquote, as the episodes as coloured people in there, but we also have a speaking black character in the form of Joseph Marcel in the cafe scene.

343
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:50.640
Which is another beautiful scene where the doctor comes to get his cup of tea late at night and the whole bit about...

344
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:51.599
It is a bit good, isn't it?

345
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.019
Sure.

346
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:57.720
I think that's a little secret name they have for each other. anything to do with what appeared on screen.

347
00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:13.680
Well, I quite like that because it gives the doctor a little bit of interiority because what does the doctor think about, you know, overthrowing the Daleks or uniting Paradise Towers or doing whatever the hell it is he does in Dragonfire.

348
00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:16.920
Um, here, he's planning to do.

349
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:18.599
He's planning to do something.

350
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:20.099
He's planning to do something big.

351
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:25.019
You know, he's planning to destroy Skaro and it's all in his mind from the very beginning.

352
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.519
And so we get a scene where he thinks about whether that's the right thing to do or not.

353
00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:32.220
And the way that's told.

354
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:38.519
We don't directly get to see what the doctor's thinking, but we do get him to have that lovely conversation with the cafe owner.

355
00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:44.940
And I love that the cafe owner, just, not the cafe owner because he's, um, That's Harry, isn't it?

356
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:45.960
Yeah, the guy working.

357
00:23:46.019 --> 00:23:50.099
Barry Fowler. you know his 1st film is in 1947, Ewan cry.

358
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:55.079
And in the 50s, he played paramour to Joan Collins.

359
00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:58.740
I had enough of that.

360
00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:00.599
That's why they called him...

361
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:01.859
He's had another...

362
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.299
That's why that's why they just called him Harry because she can't, you know, everyone, everyone knew him.

363
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:07.559
No, there's lots of old faces in this.

364
00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:09.960
But Joseph Marcel plays John.

365
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:14.460
So I love the fact that he just dismisses the whole angst about it.

366
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.460
He has no sort of particular philosophy.

367
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:19.380
It's just best thing is to get on with it.

368
00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:24.660
And you know, all of that agonising gets kind of laughed at and thrown out the window.

369
00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:25.440
It's very cool.

370
00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:29.160
And another thing I love about that scene is actually where they cut it.

371
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:36.960
They cut it after that line of best thing is just to get on with it, which is the human reaction, and it's showcasing the human reaction versus the doctor's alien reaction.

372
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:45.059
The scene as originally shot then goes on that the little girl is standing outside looking at the doctor, the girly dalek controller.

373
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:51.359
And she runs off and the doctor says to John, uh, look, I think you should get away for a few days.

374
00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:54.420
Things are likely to get nasty around here and John's like, yeah, sure, whatever.

375
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.519
The doctor leaves a pound coin on the bench, goes outside.

376
00:24:56.579 --> 00:25:02.819
John picks up the coin that says 1991 and the doctor's looking at him through the window and gives him a nod and walks off.

377
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.180
And I'm glad they didn't include that because it changes the emphasis of the scene.

378
00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:09.480
Because the emphasis of the scene is the doctor's interiority.

379
00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:15.779
But that end of the scene is the doctor doing something quirky for the sake of being quirky.

380
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:21.480
You know, when he's when he's just given ace, a bag of proper currency so she can blend in.

381
00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:25.920
He chucks in a 1991 £one coin and then lectures ace.

382
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:29.099
Oh, you know, someone had found your tape deck, they could have reversed engineered it.

383
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:30.000
Well, what about this?

384
00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:36.599
Yeah, they could have reverse engineered the pound coin and we would have had pound coins, you know, decades before they ever existed.

385
00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:38.099
It's post-defin currency.

386
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.740
And then we would have never had that glorious scene.

387
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.839
Carol Anne Ford.

388
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.059
Well, that's a reference.

389
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.779
Again, it's one of these references is the fact that...

390
00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:50.039
Caroline Ford can't add up.

391
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.339
Okay, no, that Ace doesn't know about pre-decimal currents.

392
00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:54.480
Yeah.

393
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:58.200
And it's full of references, just overflowing with them.

394
00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:15.599
No, we're not just, I think we like Nathan's reference from wherever it was 300 years ago when we 1st started this, that this is actually from the universe of the pilot rather than the broadcast series because of the dust jacket being... revolution.

395
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.720
I'm actually quite one with that one, yes.

396
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:19.440
Yeah.

397
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.079
Yeah, well, you know, it doesn't look the same.

398
00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:25.440
A friend of the podcast, I believe it was Hooa Pete, but I apologise.

399
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:34.440
If it wasn't, and it's someone else pointed out that maybe while she was travelling through time and space, Clara actually swapped, swapped the books around.

400
00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:43.259
So, Moffatt, he'll always be here because he had to put his grubby little protuberances into everything, didn't he?

401
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:53.160
I think that's actually kind of died for me. that's here a time for me when he just had to he just had to put himself in every moment of every story that's ever been. couldn't just carry on.

402
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.660
I think that is actually a good point.

403
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:57.240
Doctor Who dies when it becomes self-referential.

404
00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:04.380
But in this case, it isn't because it's referencing what everybody else is doing, which is razor glass.

405
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:05.460
Weve moved on from Germany.

406
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.299
We are in England.

407
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:08.099
So we're talking about postmodernism.

408
00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.940
Hooray!

409
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:13.799
Or even to the point where we have a sitting down to watch the show that she's in.

410
00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:14.519
Within the show.

411
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:14.819
Thank you.

412
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.019
Absolutely there.

413
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:21.480
And the cornerstone of... thing, which really was what we were talking about at the time.

414
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:30.480
It's to analyse and reinvent the past with constant referencing and deflation of that past and then reinterpretation as to what is realistic.

415
00:27:30.539 --> 00:27:34.680
But the humour of the 80s came from that deflation from that self mocking.

416
00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:45.119
There were ads on British TV, in grainy black and white of products from that time, and then someone would come in in colour and make a deadly piece steak on it, or do you remember that?

417
00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:54.839
And Ben Elton's entire career, and therefore Rowan Atkinson's, and therefore the young ones, and therefore, really all the stuff that we've got, are Sandy Toxic would not exist if it wasn't for remembrance.

418
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:59.400
She was in one, you know, when Rachel says, I think I'm going to be sick.

419
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:00.359
It was.

420
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:02.819
Very, very cruel, yeah.

421
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.599
Or to be Susan Coleman now, wouldn't it?

422
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:08.759
I tweeted her and told her that.

423
00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:09.420
She didn't respond.

424
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:10.319
So she better look out.

425
00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:12.779
She did mention being cast as the doctor.

426
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:13.319
A doctor.

427
00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:14.460
Yes, she did, yes.

428
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:24.359
You know, I have wondered to myself because Ben Aronovich deliberately decided it was his choice to tie this story in with an unearthly child.

429
00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:33.900
The 1963 setting in Shoreditch and Andrew Cartmel and John Nathan Turner were only too happy to because they did want this to be the, you know, this is the 25th anniversary.

430
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:35.700
Really would think it was a JNT idea, wouldn't you?

431
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:38.819
No, I mean, he supported it, but it was Aronovich's idea.

432
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:45.480
But Aronovic then discovered that Attacker the Cyberman had been back to the junkyard as well.

433
00:28:45.539 --> 00:28:48.059
So he actually toned down some of the references.

434
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.400
But it gets me wondering, in a show.

435
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.960
Yeah, exactly.

436
00:28:52.019 --> 00:29:09.359
In Attack of the Cybermen, in episode two, we have that, oh, like 3 or 4 minute info dump scene where the doctor and Lytton explain how the Cybermen came from Mondas, but then they went to Telos, and then they invaded Earth, and then...

437
00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:10.680
And then all the...

438
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:11.460
I can't remember.

439
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:12.119
Oh, I've seen it.

440
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:20.039
And then all the dinosaurs died and turned into oil and then Charles started wearing all of Lady Dye's dresses. can't believe it Anyway, that's actually in it.

441
00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:21.119
Yeah.

442
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:24.299
I must have slipped into a coma at that part of it.

443
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.839
But in this, we do get another info dump scene.

444
00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:35.819
It's where the doctor has explained Ace what the hand of Omega is and why it came into being and who the 2 factions of Daleks are.

445
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:39.480
It does sound like a lavatory product, doesn't it?

446
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:43.859
A remote.

447
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:48.599
A remote manipulator, indeed.

448
00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:53.579
But I was thinking to myself, what makes the attack of the cyberman saying, you know what?

449
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:58.559
I quite like attack of the cyberman, but what makes that scene quite leaden, but makes this one really electric?

450
00:29:58.680 --> 00:29:59.819
and I think it's 2 things.

451
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:06.000
First of all, the stuff in remembrance of the Daleks is all new information.

452
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:12.839
The only thing that sort of comes back in there is other names wrestle on and Omega and then the story.

453
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:15.299
But then the story does new things with them in the post-modern way.

454
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.140
Whereas Attack of the Siamen is just bringing us up to speed on something in the park.

455
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:20.339
You know what this really is.

456
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:24.779
This was as if David Whittaker, Jody, to his mates had never... retired.

457
00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:27.299
This is the Dalek Whittaker universe.

458
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.660
Did you notice the planet reference fan people?

459
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:32.519
I had to write it down as well.

460
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:33.480
Phoebius.

461
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:40.680
Three ringed planet who were in Scuro's system is in the Daleks Whitaker strip.

462
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:43.740
And there's a little corner of it, pink with 3 rings around it.

463
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:44.880
When Scaro explodes.

464
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:46.559
Yeah, just in case you missed it.

465
00:30:46.619 --> 00:30:48.000
David Wood owns the universe.

466
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:53.220
I actually think he has reincarnated as Jody, I think. to find out.

467
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.880
He's just acquired an extra tea and taken our back to it.

468
00:30:56.940 --> 00:30:58.559
Stop it there.

469
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.839
Gotten rid of his Thunderbird's eyebrows.

470
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:03.059
I think the Daleks are fantastic in this.

471
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:04.200
I mean, they're really good.

472
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:06.180
And I remember rattlingly good, aren't they?

473
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:16.259
At the time, I remember wondering about the 2 factions because of course that's introduced in Revelation, which it manages to reference without being boring.

474
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:19.799
You see, I didn't have a copy of Revelation as a kid didn't matter.

475
00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:20.640
I understood this.

476
00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:27.720
Yeah, no, you don't need to, but the reason I've been rattling around so much in this podcast is that I'm now sporting an extra inflatable ball.

477
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:35.099
Well, yes, because, of course, the Daleks on this at Silv is want to tell anyone who will listen.

478
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:48.119
He was in the Hobbit, you know, but the Daleks in this, instead of having wheels, have 3 balls, which is why they sort of, but it was so they could get over the cobblestones easier, but it does rather make them look drunk.

479
00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:52.500
Yeah, in the 60s, they used to put down a bit of fibreboard and just have them...

480
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.299
Well, they couldn't afford it anymore.

481
00:31:55.079 --> 00:32:03.180
I remember the 1st time I watched it thinking that they'd got the continuity wrong because I had my copy of the Doctor Who Monster book on hand.

482
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:06.420
Which is amazing because it doesn't even cover the car.

483
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:07.500
No, you get that car.

484
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:17.099
So, Davros was picked up by normal coloured daleks after creating a race of sort of white and gold.

485
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:21.420
Yeah, that suited the kind of loveliness.

486
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:22.019
Yeah.

487
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:22.920
Have you noticed that?

488
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:26.400
Can we have a little nerdy tech moment that Dalek tech from now on?

489
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:27.539
Is Art Deco?

490
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:28.740
The trans mat.

491
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.200
Yeah, the game show set, as you mentioned.

492
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:32.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

493
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:34.319
I think they look fantastic too.

494
00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:39.059
They don't have the light bulbs from a Morris minor anymore and they don't have a sync plunger.

495
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.400
You know, all of that stuff has been updated.

496
00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:44.220
They look really good and I think the colours look great.

497
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:49.980
Yeah, and that wasn't a feature of the of those cream coloured Daleks in Revelation.

498
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:58.980
But of course, you know, we are led to believe that Davros is leading the gray daleks from his, from his little motorcycle.

499
00:32:59.039 --> 00:32:59.700
How does that work?

500
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:00.599
He captured them.

501
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:01.200
Yeah exactly.

502
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:04.859
And that the white Daleks, Supreme Daleks are being led by.

503
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:05.819
But the emperor.

504
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.859
But then shock horror.

505
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:11.160
The emperor looks terrible, doesn't it?

506
00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:13.440
Like, it's straightly shockingly bad.

507
00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:16.740
Yeah, yeah, someone wants to describe the dessert.

508
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.380
A shrieking airball, I see.

509
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:24.420
Sophie Aldred's had a glittering career since this, isn't she?

510
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:24.839
Really?

511
00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:30.059
Putting on makeup and chanel earrings and pouting about being upper middle class.

512
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:31.680
Sorry, Soph.

513
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:36.660
I loved you, but then on all the bloody DVD extra say, well, she and I were terribly up in middle class.

514
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:39.000
It was lovely of them to give me a girly chum.

515
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:40.200
Every story.

516
00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:45.779
My lovely girly chum in this one was Alison Bleep because now one can fricking remember what she is or watching it.

517
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:46.680
Who is she in this?

518
00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:53.880
Listen to countermeasures, he still wafts about in a number 2 prisoner scarf. and, you know, looks tries to look useful.

519
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:55.079
I think she makes the two.

520
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.599
So much feminine. very good actually.

521
00:33:57.660 --> 00:33:59.400
Green Garson. who it is?

522
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:00.480
Yeah.

523
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.039
Karen Gladhill.

524
00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:03.119
She's charming.

525
00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:04.500
Yeah, yeah. doesn't do anything.

526
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:13.500
She has she has a couple of great lines and one of them is when Mike Clobber's that that pretty ginger soldier.

527
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:15.539
Oh, hello.

528
00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:18.900
And Rachel says to Alison, is he all right?

529
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.659
And Alison responds, I don't know, I'm the physicist.

530
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:29.400
I think that's a dig at Liz Shaw, who just conveniently becomes a medical doctor for no reason at some point in info. like to think they thought that way.

531
00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:33.659
But the brigadier does say that Liz has degrees in half a dozen other subjects.

532
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:35.699
We've covered this.

533
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:36.719
She only looks 28.

534
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.960
Any doctorate takes at least 4 years.

535
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:45.360
Well, remember, her husband is the master, so he absorbs life energy and gives it to her.

536
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:50.460
That'd be an interesting take on breakfast table conversation, wouldn't it?

537
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.860
What have you got for me to absorb sporting date?

538
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.559
Sarah Sutton's career.

539
00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:01.739
God, that's like a value out of torping the doctor's future lives, isn't it?

540
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:17.880
I think part of what makes this story works so well and what makes this season works so well. what makes the continuity work so well is Sylvester's insistence that Sophie's character as ace gets more to do.

541
00:35:17.940 --> 00:35:23.880
And it was something that Andrew Cartmel was very passionate about as well, because as much as he thought too much has been revealed about the doctor.

542
00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:32.280
As much as he thought, the doctor is not a positive influence on stories, which is something we complained about during Collins era.

543
00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:40.139
He also thought that the companion, you know, if the doctor is being pushed down in the order of the story, the companion gets pushed down with him.

544
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.000
So bring them both up together at the same time.

545
00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:48.659
So in that scene, where the doctor's explaining the hand of Omega, rather than Nate's just saying, what is it, Doctor Who's Omega Doctor?

546
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.079
Whats this?

547
00:35:49.139 --> 00:35:49.500
WhatsApp?

548
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.460
She asks questions like, so it manipulates starts.

549
00:35:53.519 --> 00:36:02.400
You know, she asks for clarification, using information, and when the doctor slips up and says, didn't we have trouble with the prototype, she is immediately on it.

550
00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:07.860
Yes, we and it'll come back again in Silver Nemesis as well.

551
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:13.559
You know, Sudech is very talkative today. everyone's got something to say about this story.

552
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:25.440
I really like that hilarious response where the doctor says it's called the Hand of Omega because Time Lords have an infinite capacity for pretention, much like this. much like this podcast.

553
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:30.480
She just says, yeah, I've noticed that. which I just think is wonderful.

554
00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:38.460
And you know, she uses the anti-Tank rocket on the Dalek and the doctor's like, you destroyed it?

555
00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:39.900
She like, I aim for the eye.

556
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:44.099
Okay, yeah, aim for the eyepiece with a handgun.

557
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:46.679
It doesn't particularly matter when you use an anti-tank rocket.

558
00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:48.420
That actually is an ATR.

559
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:52.199
And she was, and that is a powder burn on the back wall.

560
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.300
And she did get the recoil in the shoulder.

561
00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:00.900
You can tell my every little girl of a certain inclination and age, I've done it frame.

562
00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:05.760
I've done that frame by frame and you see the backblast, make the make the burn mark.

563
00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:08.400
She also did the jump through the window herself.

564
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:11.820
No, she didn't.

565
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.960
That was tip tipping's wife, but she did all the shots before and on.

566
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:18.300
She wanted to, but it was the one thing they would not let.

567
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:18.659
Oh, okay.

568
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:19.559
Okay, okay.

569
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:21.360
Because, oh, that's right.

570
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.000
Yeah, she does, sorry. being a girl, she'll sprain her ankle.

571
00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:26.039
And actually, she does that.

572
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:28.920
Yeah, so she jumps towards the window.

573
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:36.480
They use the other shot. with the stuntwoman going through the window, but she then does crash into the wall, does the running through the corridor, et cetera, et cetera.

574
00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:40.860
And tip tipping kind of said to her, okay, after that take was done.

575
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:45.840
He took her by the arm, took her to a chair, sat her down, and he said, now you sit here.

576
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.280
And she's like, why?

577
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:53.099
And he said, you just sit here and she says, you know, a few minutes later, I was essentially in shock.

578
00:37:53.099 --> 00:37:58.619
And he said, look, that happens even to experience stunt people and I just, I knew it was going to happen.

579
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.699
Pushy cows like you, they got jobs away from a lot of workers.

580
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:07.440
Well, that will eventually see the end of tip tipping on the show, won't it?

581
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:08.460
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

582
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:11.579
No, not Sophie Aldred, but a stuntman situation.

583
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:13.320
Yeah, but you didn't tell Doctor Who.

584
00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:14.400
No, no, no, no.

585
00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:16.079
Just everyone else's career.

586
00:38:16.139 --> 00:38:17.460
Yeah, a couple of years later.

587
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:18.960
He's bit lovely too.

588
00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:21.780
He's the he's the lad that brings in Mike.

589
00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:22.860
It's Mike.

590
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:24.420
For a get about Tommy.

591
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:26.460
He's really got a bit of a Jesus fixation.

592
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:28.079
He dies 3 or 4 times in this show.

593
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:32.820
You seem quite clearly in the junkyard. quite clearly corralling the troops.

594
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.320
Of course, he'd been in the SA yes.

595
00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:36.119
He got all that precision happening.

596
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:46.260
And the big thing in fan crap at the time was that that extra at the end was out of sync and they said, no, no, that's an homage to Clive Dunn in dad's army.

597
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.219
Oh, right.

598
00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:50.639
Was it Luddy fans?

599
00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:56.519
It works because this is the best dialect story in Doctor Who so far?

600
00:38:56.579 --> 00:38:57.360
No.

601
00:38:57.420 --> 00:39:02.280
I think Power of the Daleks is the best Doctor Who story. the best Dalek story.

602
00:39:02.340 --> 00:39:03.719
It is very, very good though.

603
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:07.679
And we haven't had a good Dalek story for, well, maybe since Genesis.

604
00:39:07.739 --> 00:39:12.000
You're right, because at the time we thought it was, but no one had seen power since the time.

605
00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:13.260
You know what?

606
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:19.380
It knocks spots off the other Deveraux stories mainly because Deveraux's innocent in it so much. in a roll-on.

607
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:19.800
Yes.

608
00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:21.780
That's not a slight against Terry Malloy.

609
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.000
Terry Malloy is a really...

610
00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:28.920
I'd like a saucy calendar of him floating in a bathtub of rice pudding.

611
00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:32.699
But I think in the mask, obviously.

612
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:41.400
Well, you know, we've discussed before that Terry Nation was of the opinion that he had to create Davros because Daleks can't deliver dialogue for sustained periods of time.

613
00:39:41.460 --> 00:39:42.059
What?

614
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:46.260
We've discussed... shown that that's not necessarily the case.

615
00:39:46.380 --> 00:39:47.579
Russell as well.

616
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:49.980
I mean, it was a long time before Dave Ross was reintroduced.

617
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:53.519
There are plenty of Dalek stories. and they're fine.

618
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:55.320
You know, you just have to write for them.

619
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:56.940
Nick Priggs has the range.

620
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.079
He does.

621
00:39:58.139 --> 00:39:59.340
Well, he does.

622
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:00.960
No, quite literally has the range.

623
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:06.420
But the thing is, Terry Terry Nation, of course, still had vetting rights on scripts at this point.

624
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.079
Yes.

625
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:15.780
Originally, Ben Aronovich discussed not using Dabros at all, and JNT said to him, no, he's got to be he has to be in there somewhere because otherwise we won't get it past tearing.

626
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:19.079
And even then, when Terry got the scripts that...

627
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:23.219
Even then when Terry got the scripts and Davros was only revealed like in the last 10 minutes.

628
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.199
Terry did complain.

629
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:28.320
He said Davro should be in it more, Deborah, should be in it more.

630
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:36.960
And John Nathan Turner pointed out, ah, yes, but you see, this Dalek controller that we've got on the other side. is going to look like Davros from behind.

631
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:45.239
So everyone's going to think Davros is on the side of the black Daleks until it's revealed to be the little girl and then we revealed Davros.

632
00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:52.079
And at that point, Terry Nation was happy because Davros would be felt, as it were, throughout the story, without actually being in it.

633
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:57.659
I think this is a good time, though, to talk about Yasmin breaks as the girl.

634
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:04.800
One of many little girls in the Sylvester McCoy era of Andrew Carmel's Little Girls.

635
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:09.239
The last one, Stella, was not particularly successful.

636
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.360
Yeah, like really terrible and we couldn't work out why she was even in it.

637
00:41:12.420 --> 00:41:14.639
They owe a lot to the 1962 film.

638
00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:16.380
We've already addressed the bad seed.

639
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:29.699
Which is John one of John Walter's greatest favourite films of all time, which has a little girl, exactly, like Jasmine Brakes, who knocks about in some poor bloke's nicked bike helmet. with a torch on the end of it.

640
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:33.599
Yeah, well, you know she's got the bicycle helmet over the incontinence chair.

641
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:41.579
We're kind of used to children being in Doctor Who now, but they weren't really in it very much at all in the classic series.

642
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:42.420
Good reason.

643
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:45.420
I mean, yeah, I'm thinking...

644
00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:47.219
Reign of Terror, had a child.

645
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:47.820
Yeah.

646
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:49.920
And he's good.

647
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.059
Yeah, probably.

648
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.059
Debbie Watling, lovely our Debbie Watling, played a child.

649
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:55.440
She was only meant to be a child.

650
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.420
Yeah, and as we record today.

651
00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:59.460
Yeah, Debbie passed away yesterday.

652
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.460
Yeah, which is, which is very sad.

653
00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:04.019
We'd met her at a convention.

654
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:10.199
Yeah, yeah. was lovely. highly encased in cylinder of smoke, just like the hand of home.

655
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:12.179
It was a Nikoner at the right every moment.

656
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:13.320
Don't forget gin.

657
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:16.320
But I do like a woman who likes a gin movie suit.

658
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:22.260
A segue to say, the last time I met Debbie, because of course, met her in 2005, we had a convention with her.

659
00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:24.539
Yes, and Fraser?

660
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:25.019
Yeah.

661
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:30.119
A few years later in the UK, I met her at convention again, and she said to me in the bar, I know you.

662
00:42:30.179 --> 00:42:33.780
And I said, yes, but I have less hair now.

663
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:42.960
But then I met her, again, a few years ago at another convention here where I was dressed like Daphne Ashbrook in the telly movie, if we remember.

664
00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:45.960
We dated.

665
00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:53.639
Um, and Debbie just looked at me and said, What is it you're wearing?

666
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:58.980
And I pointed at Daphne and said, oh, well, you see, I like dressing up as Doctor Who Girl, so I'm dressed up as her.

667
00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:05.639
And so the last words Debbie Watling ever spoke to me were, oh, darling, I thought you were one of the normal ones.

668
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.539
I was hoping she was going to say when are you going to do me?

669
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:13.440
Yes.

670
00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:17.940
But that is how I shall remember her thinking I was normal.

671
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:25.079
In such an enclosed petri dish, she would look for a norm.

672
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:33.360
But but sinister children in the 80s were the bread and butter of horror films, you know, children doing horrible things.

673
00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:37.800
And, you know, in the 60s, we'd had Village of the Damned children of the Damned.

674
00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:40.739
Macaulay Culkin.

675
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:42.300
Yes that's right.

676
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:46.619
But I think she does an incredible job.

677
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.139
And I think Cody Olson twins.

678
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.000
If I were to criticise Jasmine breaks for something.

679
00:43:54.059 --> 00:44:00.840
It would be, you know, she's given a few lines and they're not particularly great, but at the same time, she's dialect controlled.

680
00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:03.239
So things like time controller activated.

681
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:08.099
It's just, it's just a little bit, it's just a little bit stagey.

682
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:13.679
But when she's silent and just looking around and looking at things, she's incredibly sinister.

683
00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:19.019
Well, I think she's just it. channelling later 18th season, Lal Awards, isn't she?

684
00:44:19.139 --> 00:44:22.139
It's as if Tom Baker is constantly just off camera.

685
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:25.800
Because that whole slitch as soon as look at you.

686
00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:26.940
You know what?

687
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:28.739
I kind of wish all of her diary was.

688
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:33.539
That's why she was giving him eyes because, you know, women tended to do that to Tom at that period of his life.

689
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:42.900
I kind of wish all of her dialogue had been in the nursery rhyme hopscotch tune that she sings because of course that wouldn't have been irritating at all.

690
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:47.280
But that had been made sinister at the time by the Freddy Krueger films.

691
00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:48.780
No, it would have been really good.

692
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.179
And in iambic pentameter, obviously.

693
00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:57.179
But, you know, that is a minor criticism of a really good use of a character.

694
00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:58.619
She only 12 you bastard.

695
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:03.000
I'm a Doctor Who fan. have to find something to criticise.

696
00:45:03.059 --> 00:45:04.920
We've already criticised the Daleks testicles.

697
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:12.119
Well, you may say that I'm finding them extremely comfortable, but... buoyantly so.

698
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:14.579
I think you'd look really good in that.

699
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:16.559
She is even cosplaying Lala in France.

700
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:19.320
Oh, dear.

701
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:23.039
And as Rachel is cosplaying.

702
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:24.239
Just take a moment.

703
00:45:24.300 --> 00:45:25.079
Barbara.

704
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:26.099
Yeah, Barbara.

705
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:28.019
Oh, that is so deliberate and so wonderful.

706
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:29.219
The cardigan.

707
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.219
You feel like unravelling it or... some great moments.

708
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:38.280
She's in the back of the transit van, which, by the way, that Bedford van is not a 19623 model for the fanboys out there, is a later one.

709
00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:43.380
The black one with the the red prop on the top. when she says, group captain, I've got a man.

710
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.219
Even that's really good.

711
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:53.340
You know, fabulous.

712
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.599
It moves at such a pace.

713
00:45:54.659 --> 00:45:57.420
Yeah, they're starting to do things on location, which are really good.

714
00:45:57.480 --> 00:45:58.559
There's a lot of stuff on location.

715
00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:00.719
People look like they're enjoying themselves.

716
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:02.579
Yeah.

717
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:06.539
And there's action, like there's proper action with stuff exploding and things.

718
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:08.340
Wordgasm, peril.

719
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.000
Yes.

720
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.260
Time Incorporated.

721
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.900
I think everyone's pretended that never happened.

722
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:16.199
Including me and I spent like 2 weeks editing it.

723
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:25.800
Even when we do have WordParel, like when the doctor says the Daleks have weapons capable of cracking this planet open like an egg.

724
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:29.280
No, that works because we have seen their firepower.

725
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:31.920
And it's 1963 and there's a cold war on.

726
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:33.480
Yeah, we just had the Bay of Pigs.

727
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:34.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

728
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:38.760
Well, that hence that opening, you know, the cold open, which so rarely happens in Doctor Who.

729
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:41.460
Is it the 2nd one after Castravalva?

730
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:42.300
only the 3rd time.

731
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:44.639
Flight doctors had a cold open as well.

732
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:44.880
Okay.

733
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:45.300
Yeah.

734
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:47.159
That's a bit harsh on Billy.

735
00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:49.380
He was dead.

736
00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:52.920
Do you know, that was going to be her Madge.

737
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:57.900
It was going to be the queen in that thing. and I asked it, and they approached the palace.

738
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.000
You cannot, cannot, do you?

739
00:47:00.059 --> 00:47:02.760
You cannot sound bite, the queen.

740
00:47:02.820 --> 00:47:05.340
Majesty, but you can add Prince Pillow.

741
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:09.059
That is a bit of Prince Philip in there.

742
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:09.599
Yeah, yeah.

743
00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:12.119
As many a showgirl has attested.

744
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:15.960
Yeah, I think that's a bloody wonderful opening shot as well.

745
00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:19.019
It's weird that it ends in a freeze frame, but the sign from that.

746
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:30.119
My father was at a party in 1968 with Shirley Bassey, where she did something I cannot mention on this podcast, but she was also flirting with him because he was attractive in his day and that she'd had a fling with Prince Philip.

747
00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:35.039
She was very strong about suggesting that to the civil gentleman at the time.

748
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.860
She was having a fling with Prince Philip at the time, 68.

749
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:40.079
So she's in this and all.

750
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:43.559
You're going to be executed for treason.

751
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:44.760
Well, I don't think...

752
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:46.440
I don't think it's tearing the Lord.

753
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:50.039
Prince Philip without makeup.

754
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:54.840
That's really bassy, obviously.

755
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:58.800
I will teach you the fully of your words.

756
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.039
Actually, I think that might catch on.

757
00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:06.719
Jodie Whitaker is the doctor.

758
00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:08.760
Shirley Bassey is Davros.

759
00:48:09.059 --> 00:48:13.800
I think every single person in the news show should be a lady type.

760
00:48:13.860 --> 00:48:15.480
Is the future?

761
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:15.900
I like it.

762
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:16.800
Zion inversion.

763
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:17.219
Yeah.

764
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:18.480
You know what?

765
00:48:18.539 --> 00:48:22.380
I like to see Oswald Oswald coming as the companion for a little while.

766
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:24.780
Charming, but Chipman won't do that because it wasn't his idea.

767
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:25.440
No.

768
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:29.519
I think it's time to move away from all of the Moffat paraphernalia, really.

769
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:33.360
Although, I think it would be a great time to bring Ace back.

770
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.519
School reunion style.

771
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:36.480
Just one story?

772
00:48:36.539 --> 00:48:38.760
She said that on the TVD.

773
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:40.199
I'm up a meal car side.

774
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:42.840
No, people know that.

775
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:50.820
I would I would just like to say one more thing before we go because we've mentioned the rest of the primary guest cast.

776
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:55.800
We should really mention, we should really mention Simon Williams was the brigadier we never had.

777
00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:56.579
Isn't he a bit lovely?

778
00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:57.300
Gilmore.

779
00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:01.559
Were you always downstairs looking at him upstairs or were you upstairs looking at him downstairs?

780
00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:02.519
I never bloody watched it.

781
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:03.420
It looks...

782
00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:06.659
Frizzingly boring, although Lana Ward was in it.

783
00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:08.340
And of course, Gene Martin.

784
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:09.599
Oh no, that's Duchess of Duke Street.

785
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:10.920
Yeah, Gene Marsh was.

786
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:17.460
Yes, that's right. was actually fingering from the, you know, with a Ian McKellen cape on a pointy hat.

787
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:22.019
Up upstairs, downstairs at the Duchess of Duke Street with the House of Idiot next door.

788
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:22.260
Yeah.

789
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:23.519
You know that's what this was.

790
00:49:23.579 --> 00:49:24.960
The House of Idiot.

791
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:26.280
No, it was Battlefield.

792
00:49:26.340 --> 00:49:32.699
Battlefield is the story he pitched, but they went, oh, no, because we've actually got a show that's a bit like that.

793
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:37.800
So you should do this one, which turns out to be exactly like another one called Silver Nemesis that was coming later in the season.

794
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:41.280
And of course, the working title for this one was Nemesis of the Doctor.

795
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:45.780
Yeah. which is also a comic strip in the Doctor Who Monthly.

796
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:46.920
Well, that's where the title then.

797
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:51.659
I think we're going to implode inside our own fandom, like a tiny neutron star, aren't we?

798
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:55.260
You know earlier where you said that something annoying, yes.

799
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:55.920
Yes.

800
00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:59.219
You said that Moffat had, we'll probably have cut it out.

801
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:01.860
I'll do that this.

802
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:02.340
Everything.

803
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.460
I take up an hour and they only need 5 minutes.

804
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:12.119
Where you said that Stephen Moffat had sort of colonised the whole show by inserting Clara into every scene.

805
00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:22.380
Aronovich does this to the doctor because when the doctor's in London in 1963, he's not a timelord.

806
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:24.659
He's not from the planet Galifre.

807
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:27.239
He's not hiding the hand of Omega somewhere.

808
00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:32.460
You know, he's a mysterious old man from a distant planet.

809
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:40.559
And this is the show kind of trying to rope him back in and make him be what the doctor ended up being.

810
00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:41.639
Right.

811
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:42.960
Is this the rise of the moths?

812
00:50:43.019 --> 00:50:47.940
This is that this is the seed, the kernel, which should all blues.

813
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:52.139
It's the show going back and changing its own past.

814
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:54.599
In a way that Attack of the Sidemen didn't do at all.

815
00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:04.920
No, it was just too busy giving David Banks opportunities to write sort of lead and you know, compendiums of drawings of various cybermen designs.

816
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:10.260
I do think it's Episode one is Colin Baker's greatest moment as the doctor.

817
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:14.099
I think Attack of the Simon episode one is just hilarious with full colon.

818
00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:15.719
Yeah, yeah, running around.

819
00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:17.579
You asked me to say something nice last time.

820
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:19.380
No, but I mean, it really is.

821
00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:21.480
If it had stayed like that, I wouldn't have minded.

822
00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:23.880
Yeah, they're lovely together in it.

823
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:24.719
Be those policemen.

824
00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:27.059
Sad lacking of Brian Blessed in the episode.

825
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.260
Yeah.

826
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:29.760
No, I quite like him in that too.

827
00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:31.800
I think excitement is terrible.

828
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:32.639
Terrific.

829
00:51:32.699 --> 00:51:42.960
Yeah, I mean, I think it's another example of why remembrance works better than Attack of the Sidemen because...

830
00:51:43.019 --> 00:51:53.340
Well, because yes, it does recon, but it recons in a way that doesn't necessarily contradict what we knew before.

831
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:58.320
So even though you sort of look at the 1st doctor and you go, he's not a man with a mission.

832
00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:07.739
Nobody could be a man with a dangerous machine on board that he's trying to keep out of alien hands, especially with his lecture to Susan about how these savages will never understand our technology.

833
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:10.500
So, you know, okay, why bury it in their graveyard?

834
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:11.940
But...

835
00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:13.980
The point is...

836
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:20.639
My, my, it's another Jeffrey Beaver's moment to carry is, my darling.

837
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:25.079
You know why this works?

838
00:52:25.139 --> 00:52:26.519
All that stuff's just for us.

839
00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:37.980
It works because it talks about us now and us back then and us at whatever age sitting there, when our parents were doing the groove in 6263, saying, parents were wrong, they weren't cool.

840
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:40.980
They were actually like this, and we all went, yeah.

841
00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:43.079
And it's got a proper story.

842
00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:47.280
It's garlic shooting each other. you know, like it's very clear.

843
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:52.860
Because every, yeah, because it's got your guns, as you've put it, it's got your frocks, and it's got a bit of truthiness as well.

844
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:54.000
Casual reviewers.

845
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:57.539
If the BBC could, and they did promote this and it didn't do that badly, did it?

846
00:52:57.599 --> 00:52:59.760
No, this guy...

847
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:02.699
This got 5 million. they're going to get even more later in the season.

848
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:07.739
If they just chose to promote, they actually ended up doing quite well, they just tended to ignore it.

849
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.099
Yeah, average ratings for this are around 5.45.5.

850
00:53:11.579 --> 00:53:14.699
Audience appreciation index around the 70s.

851
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:16.920
Which is extraordinary.

852
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:17.699
We haven't that for a while.

853
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:20.820
In fact, I don't think we've had that, gosh, since Revelation.

854
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:25.320
And this is around the time it was up against Coronation Street.

855
00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:27.659
Imagine if they put it on Saturday night.

856
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:37.380
Those ratings would have gone up by at least a million, which would have been what Peter was getting at the end and Colin was getting in his 1st season because Collins ratings in his 1st season were respectable.

857
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:45.840
So, yeah, the BBC is trying to kill it and JNT and Andrew Cartmel are saying, fine, we're going to make the best damn show we can.

858
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:50.460
This is the season where everyone cares a lot and it will show.

859
00:53:50.579 --> 00:53:53.699
Stay tuned to someone used to say.

860
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:19.019
Well, dear listener, that's all the time we have for remembrance of the Daleks as part of Australia's remembrance of the Daleks podcast month.

861
00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:24.360
Do come back next week for the happiness, patrol.

862
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:33.719
In the meantime, in the show notes for this episode, you can vote for your choice of a Colin Baker story commentary and we have 4 stories nominated.

863
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:37.019
Todd has nominated the mark of the Rani.

864
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:39.960
Richard has nominated Revelation of the Daleks.

865
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:43.679
I am nominating the Mysterious Planet, a.k.a.

866
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:48.239
Trial of a Time Lord, episodes one to four, and Nathan has nominated Terror of the Verboids, a.k.a.

867
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.039
Trial of a Time Lord, 9 to 12.

868
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:54.480
So, sorry, folks, you won't get us to watch Time Lash.

869
00:54:54.659 --> 00:55:01.260
Meanwhile, over on Bondfinger, we are about to get 3 quarters of the way through the Pierce Brosnan era of James Bond.

870
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:04.800
Next week we'll be releasing our commentary for the world is not enough.

871
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:07.679
So do check that out on bondfinger.com.

872
00:55:07.739 --> 00:55:11.820
Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

873
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:14.159
We, of course, are flightthrough entiret.sexy.

874
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:18.480
Flights are entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

875
00:55:18.539 --> 00:55:22.619
Until next time, don't bloody throw us in a lake because you better believe there'll be consequences.

876
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:24.119
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

877
00:55:24.179 --> 00:55:25.860
Good night. 3 settings.

878
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:26.219
Good night.

879
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:52.380
That was Flight Your Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brennan Jones and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, logo designed by Anthony Wells.

880
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:56.760
This episode, Daleksa Forever, was recorded on the 22nd of July, 2017.

881
00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:00.420
Next episode will be released on August 6th.

882
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:09.840
We dedicate this episode to the memory of Deborah Watley, who played Victoria in Doctor Who.

883
00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:12.480
She sleeps in our mind, but we won't forget.

884
00:56:18.900 --> 00:56:22.559
I think I've now officially run out of closing credits jokes.

885
00:56:23.699 --> 00:56:25.980
Base them on a line from the episode.

886
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:26.760
That's what I always do.

887
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.480
Okay.

888
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.539
Or just steal them from Steven.

889
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:33.900
Since he's stolen our entire ball now.

890
00:56:34.019 --> 00:56:36.719
And had success.

891
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.179
Tagline.

892
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:42.480
Yeah, no, I hate I hate talented, attractive people.

893
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.679
If I knew someone, I'd probably be all right with that.

894
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:53.159
So you start off by slagging off Stephen Muskovsky.

895
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:56.940
And they just slag off all of our listeners, but then you don't know any attractive people.

896
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.360
Hooray We have very attractive listeners, right?