Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast who knows the secret of the old
times.
So it's salt, pepper, paprika tarragon.
Oh, wait, I'm reading the wrong thing.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Nathan And I'm Frankie Howard for this one because if you say
it in his voice, it's no missus.
We've finally reached the 25th anniversary despite almost being
cancelled twice.
It Silvan Emezis.
What's this about?
Good question.
It's about yomping through the countryside.
Some Nazis.
Five go mad in Windsor, isn't it?
So, right.
So, yeah, 25th anniversary special.
As we discussed last week, this was meant to go out last, but was
moved 3rd because of scheduling issues, which does lead to two
hilarious. continuity errors, which I didn't bloody notice until
the discontinuity guide came out.
But we'll discuss those more next week. should have been Cliff
Richard.
Anton differing was so overcast in this one.
Well, you know who was the 1st choice?
Charles Gray.
Betty to his mate.
Who kind of said, oh, you know, can it be a bit of a bigger part?
But it turned, it turned out, I believe, he just wasn't available
but also they...
He actually had a job because, you know, he was a working actor
yeah.
But they also assured him he would not have to speak with a job.
Yeah, you wouldn't have to do the accent.
Because you know, they're not actually meant to be Nazis.
Because RTL had bought the series from the crunch of RTL was
actually Luxembourgian.
You know what those Borges got up to.
But they broadcast directly into Germany, and the
Prussianwegians.
And so, of course, you know, we didn't mention...
No, we just didn't.
It wasn't something done.
But then, of course, lovely director Chris Clough thought, let's
snash swastickers.
Sticker.
Come on, where's your banners?
It's not livelier.
Come on, your home's not home without them.
Mrs. Smith everywhere, didn't he?
When a bit Mrs. Bid made and stuff.
No, coloured up all over the walls.
Yeah, yeah.
Actually, they're not meant to be.
The script is really careful. to just make them fascists.
Yeah, well, that...
And they cast Anton Diffwing with that accent.
Well, they were so damn sick.
This is the last thing he ever did all his whole career.
And being an anti-Nazi and getting out because he was queer, of
course, so he had to get out of the Germany and, you know, 33, 34
I think it got out, but Nazis the whole rest of it.
He said, oh, God.
He said, I don't understand and it's terrible.
I'm only here for the tennis.
Yeah exactly.
Like, he didn't understand the script.
He was just there for Wimbledon.
He hated playing another Nazi because he whinged and moaned.
The whole time on set.
So Kevin Clark and Andrew Cartmel had worked very hard on the
script.
Kevin Clark had seen 2 episodes of Doctor Who before this and
wasn't terribly impressed by either of them.
I don't know what they were.
No, they were the underwater menace part five.
Now sadly lost.
Joe Walton's diaries.
Yes.
And the Space really helps.
Yeah, I think it really helps that he hadn't seen them.
This is as far away from the Pip and Jane Niverse as it's possible
to be, isn't it?
and still be Pippin Janey.
It is still a bit, Pip and Jane.
Very different, Jane.
They're the ones who came up with, hey, let's have Nazis in it, and
it was sort of at the 5th stage of giraffe that John said, you do
realise we're screening in Germany now, Andrew.
Maybe let's take them out.
So every reference in the script was changed to paramilitaries.
You know they're carrying Utsis, don't you?
Which are Israeli military handguns and rifles.
Yeah, I think they're very generous on what they declare to be
okay now, these neo-coff.
Look, I'm gonna...
How beautiful did this look?
We turned this on at the time.
My goodness.
Doctor Who looks as good as everything else on TV.
It's inexplicable, I think, that it took them so long to get out
of the studio.
And part of the problem with the Colin Baker era is it's so studio
bound and so many space corridors.
And here we're actually in Windsor.
We're inside buildings, which has almost never happened on
location.
We had nice houses in sunshine.
I believe it was South America.
Yeah, well, inside that building, which has been dressed up.
You're inside the, you know, the cafe in Windsor.
It looks just terrific.
I really like it.
There's something really fresh and light about it.
It is actually a bit of a mess.
You know, it doesn't really work.
There's a lot of running around.
Yeah, for me, the big problem is actually the Nazi slash
paramilitaries.
You can take them out and it really doesn't affect the story that
much.
And 2 weeks.
Don't lose the skinheads, though.
Oh, no, God, no.
Two weeks ago, when we were talking about remembrance of Daleks
Ben Aronovich had been trying to get into TV writing for 5 years
and he was desperate to impress on Doctor Who, as you alluded
Richard, he did pitch the story which eventually became
Battlefield.
It's called Nightfall or something originally?
Nightfall was his 1st pitch, then Storm over Avalion.
Say that 3 times and it'll be a big Finnish.
The reason they asked him to write remembrance of the Daleks is
they were really impressed with his grasp of action sequences.
And so they said, hey, we want to do a Dalek story.
Why don't you do it?
Now, the thing is, when he was writing it, you know, he took home
Dalek tapes and he researched the Daleks because he's like, I want
this to be proper.
So he thought of including fowls, and he thought of including
Ogrons, but he decided, no, I'm going to keep it simple because my
1st one.
I'm not going to bore the tits off everyone.
I wish someone had suggested this to Kevin Clark.
I wish someone at some point had said, Kevin, what are the Nazis
actually doing?
Because really their purpose just exists to get the bow into the
story and even then the doctor goes to Windsor Castle to get the
bow, he could pick up the bow there, they threaten Ace in episode
one, but the cybermen show up.
And this is another example of slightly poor communication on this
story.
Kevin Clark's script says that the cybermen appear and distract
the paramilitaries.
Chris Clough got that and went, oh, they appear.
They must appear in a spaceship.
But what Kevin Clark actually meant was, no, they appear out of a
portal making them.
Yeah, appear out of Peter Miles.
That's the great sadness of this, that there is no nider in this.
Thank you.
That's what I wanted.
Yes.
Can you imagine if as a 25th anniversary, they'd brought back
Katie as Lady Katie Miles.
Who else would you have liked?
Pat Trouton, just as the screaming rock, Philip Maddock in
Fishnets.
Again, I think it was Pat Trouton would have loved that because he
constantly wanted to come back under a monster mask so nobody knew
who he was.
Tom.
In fact, Tom as the screamer, really.
We should probably name check just a correction.
Ruth Maddock was never Philip Maddock's daughter, although she was
the same age as his daughter at a previous marriage.
She was his wife all the time.
I put that in the show notes.
Did you?
throw that in because it's saucy.
There should be laws against that kind of... yes.
Says the Jones.
So who else would we cast if we had a mythic go at being cartinal
for this or JNT for this, considering it's a 25th anniversary?
I mean, we've already nominated Brian Blessard as Lady Painful.
Yes, that's right.
I like Katie as as lady.
Katie is Lady Punkfoot. works for me too.
Carol Anne Ford as Richard.
I thought you were going to say as the police car with a siren.
My uncle, my uncle, my ankle.
Caralan Ford Anglia.
So it's going to be dad jokes.
It's a 25th anniversary.
Come on. dad jokes and cherries.
I love this show.
Can we just say how much I love this story?
Fiona Walker.
There's a reason that Nathan is sitting here with crossed legs
because he can't contain himself because it's got Fiona Walker.
She's wonderful, isn't she?
And she's in Keys of Marin?
Well, really, in fact, I should have just used the entire cast of
the Keys of Marriage.
Yeah, Altos. and repent.
Sabitha.
The other blokes.
A lot of white people on Mariners, aren't there?
There are a bitch.
George Calu is sadly no longer with us.
The resurrected skull of George Caluris.
In one of the Morpherton brain jars.
Yes, see, that works.
She's so good.
Why are people maligning this as being stupid in Athena because it
is.
But I mean, you know, there are so many illusions.
Winter's Tale.
Yes.
Such thing.
Such things only happen in the theatre.
I think the problem is that the conception of the of the story is
you have 3 groups of villains racing each other to get hold of
them. the wacky races.
Yeah, yeah.
And so that's light, that's fun, that kind of works, but as you
point out, Brendan, one of those groups of people is actually
surplus to requirements.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And Nazis.
And, you know, also, Nazis should not be funny unless they played
as in the 1st season of 1970s Wonder Woman by Jewish members of
Mel Brooks' own cast. right.
I'm going to recommend to the listeners, go out and see Mel
Brookson and Bancroft in to be or not to be.
Oh, that's my pick of the week.
Because that has nothing to do with this show at all. yes.
And it's so good.
It's incredibly funny and incredibly tragic and incredibly moving
and all these amazing things.
And, you know, even though it is a Mel Brooks, it's not your
spaceballs, Dracula dead and loving it, men in tights kind of
humour.
It is based on an earlier film, of course, but that's all I'll say
about it.
Um, you know, how do the Nazis find out about the bloody nemesis
for God's sake?
Painful knows about it because it's hers, in a way. because we
haven't mentioned them because they're the silver reflective
mirrors from the last story in the room, but how do the cyber folk
know about?
This must be the lady painful.
They were in space.
They're space people.
This makes people can find things out.
Well, they are terrible, aren't they?
Is this their worst story?
No, they're the best.
They're pretty.
They're shiny and pretty and they put their hands on their hips.
Gold.
I mean, what the hell?
We're doing sure Shirley Bassey again.
No, no, it's David Banks.
He always has an incredibly posh sidekick who says things like
promises to aliens have no Belida chair.
You know, like...
I must protest, Lita.
So bad.
Oh my god.
The gold thing.
Okay.
In revenge of the side men and in earth shock, you have to get
right up next to the side men and sort of shove it down there.
Here, literally, when a cyberman is 5 feet away from gold, he wets
his pants.
Well, I actually think it's really hilarious that they're a big
camp in this and all, aren't they?
terrible.
And this carry on cyber league.
Yeah, so they can't approach that tomb thing while Lady Painfort's
firing gold arrows out there.
And so the Nazis say, well, we don't know.
We are immute to these things.
Unless they put us in the fan.
Not the face, not the face.
They're poison tipped arrows.
Like, why not see something into that?
And like, I think that they really missed a trick by not having
the arrows dipped in nail polish removed. taking out the cyberman
that way.
Because we all know that word.
Because, you know...
After Leslie French makes a time calculation. taking into account
the change in calendar 200 years after his own time.
1753 Gregorian calendar.
And also he predicts Newton and, you know, the planetal shift.
No, no, it's very good.
Well, this is why he should have been the 1st doctor.
And we all know he's in this because he was the 1st casting
choice.
And he wasn't available or he said, no, NAF off.
Ive got a career.
And they said, Billy's sitting around doing nothing but moaning.
So they put Billy Hart on him.
And I'm very glad they did...
Yeah, he could have whipped up some nail polish remover easily.
It was Leslie franchise.
Richard, you were saying why is this considered a bad story?
Now, recently on Facebook, there was a meme going around to give
your favourite and least favourite story per doctor.
It was really fun that.
Yeah, very nice.
And, you know, me having to spend 20 Facebook posts explaining to
people why Black Orchid is horrible.
Even my own sister, my own sister betrayed me.
Anyway, moving on.
She's not with us.
I list this story.
She's in a fibreglass rock in orbit, right?
Covered in front tax of your projections.
And cupboard.
How the hell did it get cobwebs up there?
Space spiders.
It's very Space 1999.
The spiders of Wrestleon.
But I list this story as my least favourite.
Oh, you know you are, darling.
But I still give this 6 out of 10.
I think it's a bit harsh.
Well, I love this.
I think it is telling that what dollies of it, Tony Bird.
I think this is the worst Sylvester McCoy story, but that doesn't
mean that it's bad.
You know, like I would...
No, I think you can look at season 24 and find an example.
Yeah, maybe Dragonfire actually.
Although, actually, it's my favourite of season 24.
Well, you see, they're all good. they are all good.
And so, you know, Silver Nemesis is a giant mess.
But the thing is, even the bits of silver nemesis, which are a
giant mess, are somehow satisfying.
So, you know, episode two and half of episode three.
The Dr. and Ace just spend it wandering around the countryside. but
they spend it wandering around the countryside defeating the
cybermen with jazz. which is sort of really. whistling weirdly and
like listening to jazz and lying in fields.
Because it's because Clark was a fan, and so was Cartmull and
Courtney Pine, the acid jazz movement, it was called.
And he'd only been, he'd been in the charts for about 2 months.
This was his new sound.
That thing you're hearing, you think, oh, yeah, I hear that in a
100 soundtracks and they use it an version of it as a sampling for
tennis matches now.
That was Courtney Pinestown.
Okay, it's Sonny Rowlands and it's John Coltrane and every great
sex player that ever lived, but it was Courtney Pine's take.
And for a musician, this is a really exciting new thing, as much
as all of this is an exciting new thing.
I want the duck to stay in.
Why didn't we get that done?
Okay.
Nathan, do you know about the duck?
So Noel Edmund's house party had this thing where he was going to
on his house party program, had a thing where did you spot the
duck in this week's drama?
And then he would get BBC dramas to film a special scene with a
duck so he could show it on the show and say, no, really, that was
in it.
So they shot an alternative version of the 1st ghetto blaster
scanner screen scene where Ace is calling out to the doctor, he's
in the TARDIS and he says, duck, and because they've just been
attacked, she ducks.
I'm having a massive duck.
Oh, doesn't it make it to the, there's a special edition?
Do you remember there was a VHS release that had extra footage and
I think the duck is in it and the games for a portrait is in it?
Yeah, and Silv actually wanted the duck scene to be in the final
program because he made friends with the duck.
Yes, he did.
The duck was following silver around all day and cracking after
him like, yeah, because he kept feeding it.
So he thought it was his mother.
It's lovely.
Dr. Seuss wrote all the dialogue for the duck for that.
When I was a teenager.
My brother had a duck as a pet for a few years and they are
incredibly affectionate, lovely.
Like it was a really, really cute duck.
I can't repeat its name because we would need the explicit tank.
So the Gainsborough portrait scene, on the VHS, there is the
extended edition for the DVD.
They made it just deleted scenes and there are actually some
deleted scenes missing because it was a, it was a very quick
package. because they're gorgeous.
It was a quick package, wasn't it, so to speak?
I gather there's some kind of rights issues tied up, which was
also tied up in the American making of special that was made for
this as well, because that's only on the video.
The Doco, and they kept following them around and annoying the
buggery out of everyone.
This was apparently, according to Sylv and Sophie, the hardest one
to film of every single story they ever did.
They said this was so tough.
Time was against them.
It wasn't the story that bankrupted the Hooniverse, and, you know
one of the reasons they say it was axed, was not actually Michael
Grade's dissociation and indifference.
It was because the happiness patrol.
You wouldn't get it.
We didn't mention it last story, but the Happiness Patrol
bankrupted the Doctor Who production office.
What a good one to do it on though.
But yeah, it also looks the cheap business.
I'll see how they did that.
Yeah, they lost a lot of time with filming, just with a lot of
little accidents, things like so...
The cyberman costumes were completely new, of course.
It was a new kind of lighter suit. but was actually hotter for the
actors to wear.
It split at the crotch.
There were cricket gloves.
Um, the, they have a cricket gloves.
The helmets were redesigned to be cricket boxes.
If only they had those, they would have done fine.
The helmets were designed to...
The helmet.
Well, the helmets were designed to be shiny, but also they were
redesigned to be easily removeable because during Attack at the
side and during Earth Shock as well. just died of asphyxiation.
Well, they had attacks of claustrophobia.
So it was designed to get them out easily.
The problem the problem was, however, because everything was so
rushed, some of the helmets had jagged metal inside of them, which
literally pierced an extras ear.
Oh, God.
So they also had a new coating, a chrome paint that was incredibly
expensive, but it oxidised outside the studio gold.
Yeah, so they had to come up with a different type.
Meta, isn't it?
I've got perfect casting for this story.
Can I just throw it in?
Yep.
It shouldn't have been Anton differing.
It should have been Kenneth Williams.
He was still with us.
It should have been exactly Charles Hawtree.
Could have been Richard.
Yes.
And I think we could have had Hattie Jakes as Lady Painful.
And Barbara Windsor Castle as a Rundle Castle.
We'd all been romping around inside Barbara Windsor.
Yeah, so that works.
So there were actually days where the documentary crew was meant
to go out on the shoot and JNT said, look, I'm really sorry.
We just have so much to do that you cannot come out this day. and
you're really, and you're really annoying.
They really, really were.
And even Gary Downey.
Who had a reputation?
Do you know that he and Sophie, at this point, we can throw it in
now because it's convention circuit gossip, had a bit of a little
bit of a moment, a bit of a discussion.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm like, naffing off.
I'm bogging off in my upper middle class manner, if you, because I
am, it's official. on the DVDs.
I'm up in middle class, you bog, and I'm going at bog face.
Are you?
I'm going to toe rag.
I'm going to off and you can as well.
She did.
She did on set.
She kind of had a reason to because he was being just a little bit
bossy.
But at the same time, being JNT's partner, I think he also
understood, like, oh, I don't know if they were partners. they
were.
Yeah they were. was the point that this thing has no money.
You have to get this in the can.
Yeah, what it was was, she kept flubbing her lines on a certain
scene.
It was also hard being outside.
Yeah, bloody duck.
Just wouldn't let go, would it?
And also for an event they went to for publicity, she had
contracted food poisoning halfway through the shoot.
So it was dealing with that.
It was all of that custard tinned corn, wasn't it?
Yeah, well, greatest show in the galaxy, which had been shot
before this, of course.
Gary Downey also had disagreements on that with the set designer
which we'll discuss next week.
And not only that, but during remembrance of the Daleks, Sophie
and J and T had actually had a falling out, which by this point
had been repaired.
Yeah, Sophie's a good.
Yeah, I forgot to mention this all the time, but pretty much she
had had to stay late for recording, which was absolutely fine.
But she just said to JNT, well, look, can I get a taxi home?
Because it's going to be difficult for me to get home. little girl
sometime.
And apparently JNT lost it, but they rebonded over Greater Show.
But yeah, this was a very tense production.
Not helped by Doctor Who Bulletin. we know about this?
Yeah, Gary Levy, Levy, and oh, the photos they took on site are
just exquisite.
A blackboard or, you know, a bit of wood, silver in the middle of
a field, looking cross.
Anyway, what were they doing?
Well, they bombed the site, in other words.
Photo bombed themselves into the site and interrupted and actually
did a little bit of mock terrorist fan action.
Gary Levy's a bit of a case, isn't he, in his day?
So, the cameo artiste, Dolores Gray, who plays Mrs. Red.
She was in um, God, was she in Follies as well?
Yes, she was.
She was in Follies.
She's wonderful.
I really like her.
It's complete padding.
It's completely able to be excised from the story with no real
effect. entirely refuse that that's ever done.
But it's got some of the greatest lines.
She's really wonderful.
So what happened was Sheldon Collings and Gary Lee from Doctor Who
Bulletin turned up to take photographs of Dolores.
Now, John didn't have a great relationship with Doctor Who
Bulletin, but, you know, still gave them news and whatnot.
But what the problem was here.
No, they'd been at war for several years.
Oh, yeah, but they still got information from the production
office at times.
But what had happened here was the Daily Mail had been given the
exclusive on Dolores Gray being in the show.
So John thought, hold on, if they take photographs, that's going
to break our exclusivity, which of course didn't help the feud
between them.
That's actually going to be.
That's actually going to be season 3 of you.
JNT and DWB.
I'd watch that.
Gary Levy was a bit of a toty in his time.
Yeah, so, you know, with all those problems. wonder the it's a
wonder the episode got made at all.
The stuff in the hangar at the end, a lot of it was, as the cast
put it, semi-improvised, you know, we had the script, but we
didn't rehearse.
And a bit dangerous.
I'm astounded by how brave Sophie is going on that gantry with
that massive drop below.
Which he was told was 20 feet.
It wasn't.
The novelisation, I think the script originally sets all that
stuff in a building site.
And because you've got this sort of huge, huge space.
Like, I think it looks terrific.
It's a great thing.
It a Nissan hangar.
Do you know what that site is now?
They knocked it down.
It's the millennium Dome. knocked that down too, haven't they?
have to go and have a look.
I mean, they literally...
It is now the side of the millennium dome afterwards, yeah.
They knocked that warehouse down like within a week.
The course of this show.
But yeah, the building site is what it originally was in the
script.
They had a building site lined up, which withdrew permission about
2 weeks before the shoot, and Gary Downey actually contacted the
gas board, who recommended this place.
So it's interesting.
Just happened to be bringing a gas ball because he liked to, you
know, make prank calls.
Me pilot's gone out again, that kind of thing.
You get the drift.
They did find a disused power station they could have used, but
they would have had to pay 30,000 pounds to have it decontaminated
before going in.
Normally they didn't care enough about the anchors to bother doing
that, I think.
Yeah, and well, this was the last story.
To shoot.
Yeah, but despite all that, there is a lot in this story I love.
And you know, a lot of it, I think, is down to Fiona Walker, who
is just exquisite.
Yeah, fabulously crazy, isn't she?
Like really, really great.
I think she's absolutely dead right on tone for this.
She overplays it sure.
But she's doing Jacobean drama, not Shakespearean.
The much darker Jamesie and stuff.
Gerard Murphy was in the IRC at the time and glow as beautifully.
And he's actually, if we want to rescue despots, dictators, and
murderers, I do like that he becomes all lovely and comely and
squishy at the end, but he's a freaking killer. for the beginning
of it.
Yeah, no, he's the dark bastard.
But no, we all love him. and Silv strokes his beard and the
outtakes. to see that.
There's a lot of iambic pentameter actually in the dialogue.
Clark wanted to write all of their lines and they said, no one
actually talked like that.
No, but you want to make them sound like that in 1638.
I think it's really...
I think I'd like to believe that Fiona walked.
Oh, they get the dates all horribly wrong and it's also silly.
And, you know, she's got roundheads in her backyard, hasn't she?
But that was it didn't happen for another 10 years.
The new model army wasn't even formed in 1638.
She gets all horribly horribly wrong.
Can we talk about antecedents where this show comes from?
Yes.
You know what actually does come from somewhere?
Really?
And it's proper...
Wacky races?
A drug fever.
No, this, does everyone remember a lovely bloke who died in the
90s?
I think he died early 90s, actually.
Gene Schumaker.
Not the movie critic on the NBC late night show with Jane Pauley
not that one.
Gene Shermaker, as in the Shoemaker Levy Comet.
Oh, yes. that was in 92 that... after this show.
Interestingly, that they were picking up on Shoemaker stuff
because that's the 1st time that we saw a comet head into
Jupiter's influence and burnup.
So we got to learn lots of new things.
Schoemaker had a bit of a theory that was a bit of a wild one at
the time.
And he was on TV talking about it and he wrote about, it's a
really interesting and lovely and gentleman and he was a humanist
and a humanitarian.
So he's kind of crops up in other things as well.
He talked about, because, hey, it's the late 80s, and we were all
having acid flashbacks, that perhaps soul in Mutter's spiral, it
actually has a twin.
And he was using this to explain things like our odd.
There are odd orbits of our planets, and we have certainly odd
things that going on.
Mercury one, the inclusion of Pluto.
I not an astronomer, so please correct me, do listener.
But one of his suppositions, he wasn't the only one that was
saying it, was that our son is in a 26000000 year cycle with its
binary star, which we can't see because it's a neutron star long
did.
Do you know the name he gave?
That neutron star?
Nemesis.
It was called MSS.
And it's a little theory.
You can look at that.
Little theory at the time.
And he was using it to explain, and of course, the cabalists and
the neo-black aquariums that we've talked about, you know, alcohol
stuff will always come up.
But he also hypothesised that every 26000000 years, all for things
like, oh, those dinosaurs were going to go anyway.
So yes, again, Matthew's entire career. completely wasted killing
himself for no good reason.
Yeah, yeah, every 26000000 years.
And he does posit that when this came about that that's why the
Donis was wiped out.
And actually we're due for it at the beginning of the 21st
century.
Right, so... the idea... the nemesis coming back every 25 years
every time the land dragger is going to swallow the moon. yes, very
bad time.
Your cock is going to crow thrice and lay out will be.
That's right, Nathan.
It's not a duck at all.
Lady Pain Forts horses did turn and eat each other.
Do you know why she's called painful?
Because that's what they did to witches.
It was pressing heavy things upon them.
Yeah.
Brian Blissard.
Preston and Brian Blissard upon them.
Yeah.
Well, she throws herself into her own stature. it's a bit
gorgeous.
We've all had moments like that, haven't we?
Oh, yeah, I'm having it now.
Yeah, I was going to say during the podcast.
But isn't that beautiful that the actual one of the antecedents of
this, which is what I do on this podcast, is proper wibbly wobbly
non-science science.
This is a really good story.
I think that's why I really wish the Nazis weren't in there, so we
had more time.
Yeah, it should have been. and Charles Hortry.
That being said, just looking over my notes, I have realised that
Kevin Clark's thought with the Nazis, of course, was their
obsession with the occult and the quest for the spear of destiny
for which he substitutes the bow and the arrow.
It was much, it was much less silly in the original draft.
I think you know what?
I think the big problem is, as we'll discover next year with one
of the 3 parters as well, that he possibly wrote enough for a four
part story for a three-part slot.
It's actually a problem in the Carmel era, which is that the
scripts come in too long.
This doesn't have to be, like, think about Curse of Fenrick had a
special edition.
We had a special edition of this.
There are some really, really horrific edits, I think, in
Happiness Patrol, where you can see we come into scenes much later
than we should be.
And so that does tend to be a problem and it does affect what's
going on here.
But it does mean it's sort of, it's, you know, it does feel quite
contemporary, doesn't it?
jump.
Yeah.
You know what?
If this had been the studio bound story.
This would have been much worse.
Being on location helps it because there is a sense of movement
fun.
And, you know, the weird thing is, though, it's got llamas.
And as llamas.
It's the 25th time, according to the facts that llamas have
appeared on screen.
Paul McGann's wig is actually made out of fur from wool from those
llamas.
But even with these pacing issues, we still have the scene with
Dolore is great, which is wonderful.
But, you know, is she?
Why is she here?
It's one of 2 vignettes to kind of show Lady Painful interacting
with the modern day, but using Lady Remington and the skinheads as
2 sort of hyper real examples of the modern day.
Many found it so.
I mean, the interaction with Lady Pay it for...
Mrs. Remington is so great just because Lady Painfold has poisoned
one of Mrs. Remington...
I think that scene is slightly more worthy because it's the
explanation of how they get back to the hangar. you know.
But the 2 scenes with the skinheads are complete comic relief, but
they really work because of the punchline.
Like, who did this to you?
social workers.
I don't understand that.
Do their social workers normally strip them to their underwear and
tie them up and hang them from a tree?
Because Lady Painfort and Richard are speaking all plummet and
what have you, they must be social workers.
So they think they're social workers in the 1st scene and try to
mug them at which point they string them up in a tree and burn
their clothes.
And it's just the doctor's reaction of just, Ace, come and help me
get these people down.
And, you know, then we never see them again.
We have no idea if they have to go back to town in their boxes.
And yeah, one of them's wearing like cartoon boxes covered in
kisses.
It's a wonderful, absurd thing that you'd never get in Star Trek
for God's sake.
Well, fun, yes.
But, you know, I'm like the lady rubbing disease.
It just has no plot impact whatsoever, and the Mrs. Ervington
scene has a very little plot impact.
I really love that Dolores Gray is named after an intimate shaving
device.
The lady people.
So in the 1st draft when the American tourist was referred to as
Mr. Remington, they were trying to get Larry Hagman.
Oh, my God.
And they couldn't.
They almost did because one of the cast members had just worked
with him and were mates.
Yeah, I get I get to wear that outfit, like the pearls and the
clothes.
He's actually up for that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
It was really saucy and naughty.
Apparently, he was the he was the scallywag on the set of I Drew
Magini, and the reason the show went so long, and the cast all
stayed together.
You didn't get cast changes like you did in a lot of other 60s
shows.
It's because Hagman was a...
Yeah, exactly.
But Hagman was a real piss taker on set and everyone, it was a
rough working with it.
Super, super clever.
Almost bipolar is in his book, if you ever used to sit and read
that in the school library.
I wonder what my librarian was like.
She used to buy a lot of these things.
But yeah, yeah, he had that very Peter Sellers, manic, depressive
thing, but when he was up, he was really naughty. much like this
podcast.
Well, I gather he was up for it, but it was kind of a scheduling
thing.
Whereas Dolores Gray was performing in the UK at the time.
She was performing in Follies at the time. famously and probably
everyone's heard the story.
But when her chauffeur came to drive her to set.
She got to set and said, where are my jewels?
And she just left this suitcase full of jewels on the pavement
because people just pack her luggage.
That's what they do.
And thankfully, the caretaker of the building had come out and
spotted it and brought it in.
Peter Capaldi. and sent it on.
It was £25,000 worth of uninsured jewels.
The production didn't know she was bringing them, but she just
went, oh, darling, these will go lovely with my dress.
Where are my jewels?
Yeah, and... she...
And horrible in the back of that car.
It was rancid.
You know that look when you've got Richard leaning in?
And she's sitting there and she says, oh, no, you're coming.
And the reason they look like, it's not because he doesn't know
how to open door handles.
Of course, it stinks like a zoo.
Stinks like a pert wee figure.
It does.
Now, of course, Kevin Clark.
It's it's kind of weird, you know, all the writers brief. was we
want to bring back mystery to the character of the doctor.
So Kevin Clark and Andrew Cartmel interpreted this as, so in Kevin
Glant's script, we'll reveal something huge about him.
So...
Behave.
So Kevin Clark's concept was, let's reveal that the doctor is God
love that.
Well, that's well, Carnwell claims it as his own.
Oh, okay.
Well, JNT hated it and vetoed it.
Of course he did.
But yeah, because they kind of saw it as if he's got Godlike
powers, why doesn't he do this?
Why doesn't he do that?
Does he spend episode 3 locked up?
Yeah, but Carlos point was that, no, his manipulation all through
human history is that, you know, in our world, he is actually our
god across all religions.
Well, you know, because Pertwee was almost Buddha for a little
while.
It does introduce us to fire.
That's true.
He does.
Isn't that St.
Eileen way, though?
But no, no.
She was the Loki all the time, wasn't she?
She wouldn't let us have the phone.
But the problem, I think, with that is, if you do do that and you
follow it to its natural conclusion, what do you get?
You get death comes to time.
Ouch.
No one wants that And you know what?
That comes to time is a very interesting concept, but you think
about the fact that the doctors are god and has these godlike
powers.
He uses them spoiler alert.
No one wants to listen to death comes to time. got it. listened to
it once.
I do apologise because I believe the writer being Colin Meek was
actually Nev found it. thought it was Dan.
Dan the director.
I'm not sure who.
Is it Nev who wrote it?
I could be wrong.
The point is, we all thought this is completely naff and silly, and
we need to also mention as Ace does.
You know how she mentions NAF in this in this show?
Nef is polare for heterosexual.
It was nap and it was boring.
Um, But a lot of these ideas were actually cartwolves, like
sending Ace to Timewald Universityschool.com.
I thought, that's stupid.
But yeah, that was the original plan.
That's what they were going to do, as we'll find out for season 27
perhaps.
The thing is, when death comes to time came out, I loved it, and I
still...
Stephen Fryers, the Minister of Chance.
Jacqueline Pierce is in it?
But I still kind of love the ideas, but how is making the doctor
God and giving him godlike powers?
Yes. any different to having the screwdriver unlock everything and
canine hack into everything.
And in fact, if we hadn't had death comes to time, we wouldn't
have had you in your lovely cosplay, would we?
I have got that on the flight through Entirety Facebook. is a bit
lovely.
The cosplaying as Sylvester in Death comes to time, along with.
In a frock?
Along with friend of the podcast, Aaron Kleimas cosplaying as the
new adventures 7th doctor.
Aaron J.
Clymers went.
I don't think he was even allowed to drink then.
That's how young he was.
Yeah, bit about that, huh?
So instead, I think what we get instead is...
I think what we get instead is better because it's painful
alluding that she knows secrets and it creates fun.
It's fun, exactly.
It's not.
I wasn't born.
It's not the doctor's name is Cecil, you know?
It's Gordon anyway.
We all know.
I shan't tell them.
And that's the beautiful compact.
I can't tell them like, no one can.
Yeah, and I see his response.
No what?
The casual viewer couldn't give us stuff.
Who is watching this?
Who isn't one, you know, who of the not we is watching this?
23rd of November means what?
And if you weren't there in 62. you wouldn't have even known.
And it's the 22nd anyway.
That's the Kennedy assassination.
You wouldn't have even known that that happened.
Well, I think it does tell us something because those mysteries
can't be solved, can't be answered because the answer has to be
uninteresting.
Exactly.
And it's a good idea.
Like Carmel's instinct to kind of reintroduce some kind of
ambiguity about the doctor's origin.
That's a great idea, but he can't ever reveal it without wrecking
it, I think, because then it's just another tedious origin story.
Well, yeah, and and you know, we're all in accord on that.
And Todd and James are in accord on that as well.
That was, in our Stones of Blood commentary a couple of weeks ago
we discussed that and Todger said, I don't ever want to find out.
What is the point of finding out?
Yeah, why does the doctor leave Gallifrey?
tells us nothing.
Yeah.
You know?
Where is he?
Bloody Clara.
I'm thinking it was like he had like massive, massive overdue fees
at civic video.
I think he was trying to get away from his granddaughter.
Oh damn.
Why are you in here?
Anyway, they loom.
Talking of a whoomed granddaughter.
It's like a hand knitted granddaughter.
In Kevin Clark's original script, because he went back and looked
it up in the Doctor Who monster book, because Carol Anne's in
there.
He did have references to...
She's in the monster book.
There's a reason for that.
When Richard and Lady Painful are discussing the doctor, it is he
et cetera, et cetera.
There was going to be more saying, you know, his face has changed
and so has that of the wench and he was going to go on and
describe Billy and Susan.
And the idea was much like remembrance of the Daleks, where it's
Billy dropping off the hand of Omega.
It's also when he left Galafraid, that's when he took the Veladium
statue with him. as well as the as well as the worshipful and
ancient law of galafrey.
Yeah.
TARDIS was really full of...
Timothy Dalton's pyjamas. yeah that's right But yeah, this posing
pouch of rational.
This brings us to...
This brings us to what Ace points out in the final scene, whereas
this is exactly what you did to the bloody Daleks.
And I think if this...
Commode of the other.
Do you actually think that there was some intention of actually
wiping out the cybermen completely?
You know, I think it may be that they're trying to restate the
mystery of the show.
So let's kiss goodbye to all the old stuff.
So we get rid of Daleks.
We get rid of the side, but in such a way we can always bring them
back if we want to. system of Christopher Robbie. that in there
didn't he?
But that's the thing.
I think this works so well as the season finale because instead of
just being the same plot as Remembrance of the Daleks, it's a
bookend.
The doctor starts the season by getting rid of the Daleks.
He ends the season by getting rid of the cybermen.
And in the middle, we have 2 strange stories about overthrowing an
evil government and destroying ancient gods.
And hippies.
You know.
So Ace point...
Ace pointing out, oh, you know, that's how you nobbled the
Daleks.
It's a callback rather than a lampshade.
And it also is giving him some kind of purpose.
Remember, he says to the statue that he still needs her because
things are still in perfect.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I kind of think that giving him a mission is kind of what they
sort of need to do.
Bionic woman, 6000000 person.
Well, I mean, I like the idea that the doctor just travels because
he wants to see the universe.
That's what we do because we're lazy.
I don't want to have to do anything.
Like Pierce Davis...
Every other episode of this season, every other story of this
season is a mission.
Yeah, it turns out.
So was Dragonfire?
Yes.
Yep.
But it turns out maybe even Delta was because he was looking for a
warrior companion because he'd realised that Mel could not be what
he needed to achieve in this life and he that he was looking for
his Valkyrie.
His Brunhilda.
I should have just cast Joan Sims.
It should been terrific.
I mean, what do we think about?
Please fight for mysterious planet, do this?
So are we okay with the sort of ripoff factor then?
Mysterious Planner.
I've never watched it, but it's got James Sims. you need to see
it.
Rip-off factor.
Well, I mean, what is Doctor Who ever done but rip off and do it
really nicely by repositing?
It was the 1st postmodern production on television.
There's about what Nathan said in the very 1st story.
It's about TV itself.
Remember when you said that?
I quite liked that.
That was Nathan.
It's the Nathan.
Morgan, whistle, we've had enough running about the battle, Randall
so we're going to try our talents in the audition, but the psychic
circus do come back for the greatest show in the galaxy next
week.
Don't forget, in our show notes, you can vote for the Colin Baker
story, you'd like us to do a commentary on.
The nominations are Mark of the Rani, Revelation of the Daleks, the
Mysterious Planet, and Terror of the vervoids.
You can find that at flightsthroughentirety.sexy, flight through
entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on
Twitter, over on Bondfinger.
We have the 1st 3 Pierce Brosnan Bond films, and all preceding
ones on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts
and at Bondfinger cast on Twitter.
Bond Finger of Omega.
Until next time, may none of your vile neighbours steal your
cook.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
In for me in for me.
That was like your entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan
Jones and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, logo
designed by Anthony Wells.
This episode, Exit Pursued by a Bear, was recorded on the 22nd of
July 2017.
The next episode will be released on the 20th of August.
When the doctor relaunched the Nemesis Statue in 1988, he was sent
into a slightly more distant orbit with a period of 28 to 29 Earth
years, which explains a lot when you've come to think about it.
But, I mean, that's not the initial conception, is it he travels
because he can't control the TARDIS?
Well, no, we think he's escaping, yeah, but as Newman say, Newman's
Newman was boggly awful. when you look at his concepts and his 86
concept, which have we talked about that?
Yeah, we have.
That's great Turn it into a warmer.
After turning it back into Patrick Trown. is the plan.
That's what Pat would have wanted.
There's not enough.
I thought you were being Matt Berry.
No difference, actually.
He's my man crush.
I'll just hold him up for the listener.
There you are.
Delicious.
Okay.
This canon now, because Peter Davidson's his flatmate in Toasted
Canon.
Anything anyone else wants to say?
It's not enough nudity in this story.
It's a little bit As Sylvester would put it, look, there were some
very good looking firefighter type chaps in those side main
costumes, as Sophie discovered to her delight as we were entirely
on location.
He was so naughty to out her as being a little bit frisky and
that's right.
And I've got to say for so, you know, all for so, benefit and and
arger in her role, she's never denied it.
She said, yeah, I had good time.
I had an upper middle class, good time.
Right upper.
Okay.
Wrap it up.
I imagine.
See, I can't look at you when I do this because I'll just
completely break up.
Comet.
Well, dear listener, we've had enough of running about an app.