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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:22:51

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast whose theories appal you.

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Our heresies outrage you.

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We never answer your letters and we're not even wearing ties.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm a pre-Raphaelite spangly chandelier for this one in

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a very high pitched voice.

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And we're off to see some animals.

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It's ghost light.

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So, uh, much like last season, uh, this season is a bit wibbly

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wobbly in production order, so despite the fact that this is the

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2nd story broadcast, it was originally intended to be broadcast

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3rd and was in fact the last Doctor Who story shot at getting this

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piece of trivia out of the way, the scene where Mrs. Pritchard and

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Gwendolen are frozen into stone was the last scene shot for the

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classic series. which you might say is metaphoric.

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This is really, really amazing, this story.

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I just think it's incredible.

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And I have to say that despite, you know, a lot of fanboy

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protestation, it doesn't actually really make very much sense.

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Well, yes, it's a very split fan reception, isn't it?

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and indeed viewers reception.

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It's one of those things you can't watch as a Doctor Who story

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alone, and those fans who we were young at the time, of course, but

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the folk who do come to it youthfully and in the middle of a

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Doctor Who series, expect Doctor Who.

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It not.

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It's a student's piece on everything he's ever watched and ever

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written that he loved.

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It's the most literary Doctor Who story I've ever seen.

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And goodness, that means we'll have a lot to say about it.

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Yes.

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So in theory, the idea is that this house is built on top of a

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stone space ship that's been here for ever.

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Yes, or it's just slipped back.

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The novel suggests, yes.

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But anyway, there is the suggestion that was built on the

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foundations of wrongness.

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Yeah, and out of time, out of sync, out of evolutionary phase and

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out of God's domain.

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Yeah, and so light is this sort of powerful entity that is

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cataloguing everything in the world and the way that works is you

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have a survey agent, which is released into the world, and

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presumably recapitulates all of evolution until it reaches kind of

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like the highest rung on the evolutionary ladder, which is

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obviously the white landed Victorian gentleman, whereas the

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control creature stays behind as a control control.

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But of course, none of that really makes any sense at all.

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And it doesn't actually, you know, become clear that that's what's

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happening.

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There is some attempt to explain it in dialogue.

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In the end, it makes sense because you've realised that everyone's

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evolved and everything's changed.

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People's thinking changes.

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Light also manifests as the dominant life form, which is a cockney

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barrel bloke who has appeared in EastEnders and the Blackadder.

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Yes, yes.

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He's quite terrifying in the blackadder on a sort of big horse.

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Yes.

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He was also Brian Blessed's wingman in Flash Gordon.

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Oh God, yes.

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Pun intended.

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Yes.

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God, I adore this story.

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And I adore it because of its depth and complexity and because of

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its rough edges.

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In a way, the lack of fully developed explanation and the fact

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that we have to fill in some blanks ourselves is kind of

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lovecraftian.

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Whatever light is, and, you know, the doctor never says he's a Zog

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monster from the planet Zog in the style system, Zogos.

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They never talk about what species he is, which would be a very

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Star Trek thing to do.

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They never establish exactly what kind of being he is.

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He is just light and he is knowledge and he has the power to

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influence evolution and we as mere mortals just have to kind of

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accept that that's going to happen.

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That brilliantly macabre scene where he's confused and calls the

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maid over and the next time we see her, she's dead and he's got

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her arm and he says, I wanted to understand how it worked.

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So I dismantled it.

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It's this concept that an intelligence so far ahead of our own

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will not view us as intelligent life.

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In a sense, I would be disappointed if we got a proper explanation

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and I literally don't care that it doesn't make any sense.

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Yeah, and if it was trek, it'd be tied back to the mutants because

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they blow the same or we'd know that light was actually just

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another part of this survey.

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And that in fact, the manufacturers or the, you know, the

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controlling intelligence is some other species entirely.

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Yeah, you can have a lot of fun guessing who that is.

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Absolutely doesn't matter because what we have is a story that is

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unbelievably, beautifully choreographed and directed.

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It looks like a merchant ivory film of the time for TV.

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Yeah, yeah, merchant ivory film on videotape.

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But when the doctor and ace appear in the 1st scene, they

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materialise in the upper observatory.

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A doll's house.

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I love this is a boy that it felt like you were playing Doctor

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Who.

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Well, she picks up this and it's sort of thrown away.

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I think it's emphasised probably more in the novelisation, but she

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picks up a toy, which is clockwork, which has figures spinning

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around inside it, like an ice ring.

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And in fact, the whole house is like that, particularly for the

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1st episode.

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So, you know, when it strikes six, these doors open and all of

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these people come out.

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It's all just sort of incredibly beautifully choreographed and the

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music is absolutely extraordinary.

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So it's all atmosphere and set pieces.

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And that's fine by me.

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And keys right into the reviewers very recent memories of BBC

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television period dramas, which they had done so well.

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And this was done as an homage to that because just with Mrs

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Thatcher's government of the last few years, that was no longer

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done in house.

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There were all these costumes and all these experts who was lying

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fallow trying to look busy.

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And yeah, so everyone who worked on this went to town as a last

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nod to what had once been a really good factory working thing for

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the bee.

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They only ever did them in these, they were doing them at the time

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but with American money, usually or German money.

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It's the same way they did downton.

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So.

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Yeah, well, this, I mean, this is...

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Well, I mean, that's the thing that kills Doctor Who, isn't it?

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The move to outside production, the fact that the BBC is no longer

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made.

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Wales killed Doctor Who.

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But, you know, the fact that BBC's not making drama in house

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anymore.

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And those of us who are alive at the time will remember, you know

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the endless stories of the different production companies that

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might be going to take it over as the years passed after, you know

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Ghostlight was made, and it just never ends up being picked up and

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falls between the cracks, I think.

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So it doesn't survive that transition.

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You know, the Victorian era is something that the BBC has done

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incredibly well in the past and it's something that Doctor Who has

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done very well.

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I mean, for all of the things that you can say about talons of

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Wang Chiang.

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It looks spectacular.

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And a lot of the Hingecliff era, looks so incredibly good because

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it's set in the late 19th century or early 20th century, using the

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sort of sets and costumes and things that the BBC could do

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fantastically well in its sling.

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Suited Tom very well.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But, I mean, here it just looks amazing.

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And the sets are lavish and detailed and kind of terrifying as

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well.

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At the risk of losing friend of the podcast, Chris McDonald for a

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couple of minutes, I'd like to talk about colonialism.

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So, of course, we have read for the Sven Cooper, who is a colonial

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explorer who's been to the deepest, darkest heart of Africa, and

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what have you?

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James Finnamore Cooper's last of the Mohicans, and also, and also

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every Whitey in a linen suit that's ever appeared.

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Yeah, but on film, yeah.

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Yeah, but by accident or design, played by Michael Cochran, who

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last appeared in Doctor Who, playing the brother of a colonial

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explorer.

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Black Hawk, the worst Doctor Who story ever made.

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But the whole story, one of the things it's about is colonialism

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because light is a colonialist as well.

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He expects everything to adhere to his idea of civilisation.

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Yes, it's almost as if he'd want a survey done of why people would

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even want to change.

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What could possibly go wrong with that concept?

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right.

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And, you know, he doesn't he doesn't view the people in the house

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as people.

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He takes them apart.

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He regresses them to soup, but puts them in uniform.

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Puts them in uniform.

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At the end, of course.

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When Redfers rejects colonialism to take control, who is not yet

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quite refined to a refined event, Josiah actually appeals to him

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you know, on the grounds of colonialism.

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It's actually a country.

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Yes, gone.

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And Redver's response is, oh, forget Redver's.

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Forget colonialism.

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He's only ever talking about himself.

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That's a really good point because George Monant Shaw, in his

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writing of Pygmalion, where the whole, I'm a ladylike now, et

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cetera. boulderized for my fair lady, but he was a prime socialist

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and vegetarian, a nudist.

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Whenever he got to the fans... inclement weather.

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It wasn't mad.

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But yeah, which was the whole thing about, as you're saying, about

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just tilting the social order and just so he never...

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Well, maybe in St.

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Joan, he did actually, but I was going to say, he didn't really

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propose radical change or any outcome.

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He just said tilted slightly and let the light hit the edges and

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then see exactly what it is we're looking at and we're performing

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and you'll find that we're all dancing around on a glass dish.

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We're all dancing on a petri edish and we're much smaller than we

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think we are.

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The antecedents to this aren't merely visual or rhetorical.

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They're actually really cultural and literary of the 20th century

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and the changes that have come on.

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I think the reason a lot of fans, especially at the time, loathed

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and despised this.

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And friends like cough Dan Hogarth. you know, one of the finest

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minds in fandom, I know, absolutely detests this.

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On every single level, he says a complete waste, blah, blah.

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All the rest of it.

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But I think that's the point because they're so disappointed

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because it's not really Doctor Who.

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It's one of the things, it's, for me, it's reached the coin in the

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slot, apotheosis of what Doctor Who's supposed to do and that does

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everything else.

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Yeah, well, I mean, I think maybe it's nearest antecedent is the

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mind robber, which also sort of plunders Victorian literature.

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Especially Lewis Carroll as does this.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Alice, she gets called Alice.

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Cross dresses.

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The lift is explicitly called the rabbit hole by the doctor.

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They go underground.

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They're dressed animals underground, just like there are animals

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in Wonderland.

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I mean, it is very explicitly taking from that.

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There's that whole Victorian idea of evolution.

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I mean, evolution predates Darwin.

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Darwin really only discovers the mechanism for it.

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But the idea of evolution as a ladder as something that you go up

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and you reach a pinnacle, which is not what evolution is or how it

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works at all.

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And, you know, all sorts of eugenics and sort of racialist ideas

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being thrown into the mix.

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So Josiah, the survey agent gets released and he becomes the most

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evolved thing in the in Earth's biosphere, which is a landed

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Victorian gentleman.

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You know, that's what he's evolved into.

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And that's once controls released, she evolves into a ladylike

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into a Victorian lady as well.

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So it's not a story that is scientific.

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It's not a story that has, you know, pteroreptils in it or

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anything like that.

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It's a story that takes place in a kind of weird amalgam of sort

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of Victorian obsessions and Victorian literature.

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It happens in a kind of land of fiction that some localised within

249
00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:31.620
this sort of one strange house.

250
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:35.100
Much like Britain at the time. and the way that it had

251
00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:38.879
fictionalised its own history, certainly its own Victorian values

252
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.500
as Mrs. Thatcher was fond of saying.

253
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:44.039
And we'll have a lot more to say about Lewis Carroll coming up for

254
00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:48.299
Fenrick because there's even more of him in that. as in as in

255
00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:48.539
this.

256
00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:51.480
It wasn't merely his writings on...

257
00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:53.940
He was really writing about maths, wasn't he?

258
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:55.320
Great deal. an order.

259
00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:57.240
But he was also a social critic.

260
00:13:57.299 --> 00:14:00.240
So when he talked about the topsy-turvy world and the confusion

261
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:01.080
that was going on.

262
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:04.259
He was really talking about the stuff that Blake and that we've

263
00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:04.980
talked about before.

264
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.139
I'm not putting us up with William Blake.

265
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.600
But hey, if you want to make that connection, we shan't complain.

266
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:14.100
Is that is that nothing was actually function. under a capitalist

267
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:18.360
industrialist empire, that people were falling through the cracks

268
00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.500
in the stone temples that we've built to Gog and Magog.

269
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:28.200
Light is actually way back to a Tigris Euphrates' deity.

270
00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:30.000
Yeah, he's an angel.

271
00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:33.899
Remember that there's an angel with a flaming sword that prevents

272
00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.200
Adam and Eve from getting back into the Garden of Eden.

273
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:38.639
And that's what light is.

274
00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:43.440
And one of the reasons that light opposes evolution is because

275
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.379
he's from a mythology that contradicts it.

276
00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.039
And that mythology is, of course, represented by the Reverend

277
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:53.639
Matthews, whose objections, whose...

278
00:14:53.700 --> 00:14:57.120
Is it not, he says at the end of every sentence, so you know he's

279
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:57.899
Victorian.

280
00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:04.379
But Reverend Matthews prefigures light in the same way that Red

281
00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:06.480
for Sven Cooper does as well.

282
00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:10.559
So he objects to change an evolution in the 1st episode, and then

283
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:14.460
light comes along, who's an angel from Matthew's own Christian

284
00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:18.179
mythology, who also objects to evolution as well.

285
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.120
And it's very telling that light comes along after Matthews has

286
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.659
been sent away to Java and fulfilled his plot purpose.

287
00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.480
Now, we've talked before about characters and Doctor Who stories

288
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.419
who are just killed off when they no longer serve the plot, but at

289
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:35.220
least in the case of Reverend Matthews.

290
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:41.700
His death serves the plot by showing us what Josiah is capable of

291
00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:45.779
but it also fulfils the plot because he is out evolved by someone

292
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:47.039
who doesn't want to evolve.

293
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:51.360
Yeah, you know, light is so much better at doing what the Reverend

294
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.460
Matthews does because the Reverend Matthews is just reading

295
00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:54.120
scripture.

296
00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:55.559
Light is scripture.

297
00:15:55.799 --> 00:16:01.019
I think also, like the deaths in this are so hilarious.

298
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:06.720
Like the death of Matthews, like when he raises his hands into

299
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.139
shot and they're covered with like their gorilla hands all of a

300
00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:10.500
sudden.

301
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.600
It sort of shocking and hilarious.

302
00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:17.340
We've already had the, that's the way to the zoo song.

303
00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:19.919
We should mention for the casual listener that that was not

304
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:23.460
written for the program, but actually discovered at the 11th hour

305
00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.620
in Book of Victorian songs.

306
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:26.940
Isn't it perfect?

307
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:32.460
And as detailed in antecedent and worshipful and ancient law of

308
00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:38.519
splendid chaps that was sung in their Sylvester McCoy episode by

309
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:43.740
John Richards and Petra Elliott to Ben Mackenzie, who had to

310
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:47.820
scream at them to stop because for God's sake, it's about death.

311
00:16:49.019 --> 00:16:53.580
You know, it's about passing into the afterlife and being

312
00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:54.299
stuffed.

313
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.500
Oh, it was a Pestiche on Darwin at the time or on evolutionary

314
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:01.799
theories.

315
00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:05.880
This is one of those parlour ditties that it sits perfectly, and

316
00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.880
I'm really glad that Catherine Schlesinger is allowed to sit and

317
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.359
she doesn't play the piano in the end, someone else, and did it in

318
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:12.839
2 takes.

319
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:14.519
No, it's wonderful.

320
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:16.920
And I love how it goes on in the background of the following

321
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:17.339
scene.

322
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:21.059
Well, it has something like 10 verses in the actual...

323
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:21.480
Yeah, yeah.

324
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:23.940
And we're about to sing them all.

325
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.839
No, I couldn't possibly replicate the legend that is John Richards

326
00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:29.099
friend of the podcast.

327
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:33.779
But on the DVD, there is actually raw, the full-time...

328
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:34.319
Raw footage.

329
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:34.859
Yes.

330
00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:40.019
There's the full take of Catherine with 2 A's singing that song

331
00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:44.279
and she sort of gets to the end and I did that rather well.

332
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.640
They're all having so much fun.

333
00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.559
There's Rocky Horror sighted in this.

334
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:50.339
That dinner party.

335
00:17:50.460 --> 00:17:52.380
Is the rocky horror picture show?

336
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:53.640
Oh, it is too.

337
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:54.480
It really is.

338
00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:57.480
Where they're serving meatloaf is the...

339
00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:58.980
Oh, it's missing.

340
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.099
And the Douglas Adams, like the hitchhunkers...

341
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:03.599
Douglas Adams is canon now.

342
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:04.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

343
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:05.940
Because what does the doctor say?

344
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.880
Who said that Earthmen never invite their ancestors around for

345
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.119
dinner?

346
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:11.339
That either means...

347
00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:13.440
Ooh, figure of 8 on its side.

348
00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:18.599
That either means that that show that Douglas Adams was editing

349
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.259
was Professor X or, oh, where are we going to end up with this?

350
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.980
But yeah, yeah, I'd like to think that the hitchhiker universe is

351
00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.500
part of the...

352
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:30.900
No, no, it's later established in the Christmas invasion.

353
00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:32.759
Arthur Dent's a lovely man.

354
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:36.299
And of course, Doctor Who and the Cricket Man is coming out next

355
00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:39.299
year as transcribed by James Goss.

356
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:44.519
So it's part of the Douglas Adams increasingly inaccurately named

357
00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.079
unnovelized trilogy.

358
00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:48.539
Fantastic.

359
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:53.400
This story is so very rich.

360
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:58.200
And it also continues the trend we saw last year of emphasising

361
00:18:58.200 --> 00:18:59.400
the role of the companion.

362
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.160
And how good is Sophie in this?

363
00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.380
You can see this is...

364
00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:06.000
Is this her favourite that she did?

365
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:07.859
No, I think she likes Fenrick, doesn't she?

366
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.519
Yeah, I think she does say Fenrick's her favourite, but she does

367
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.460
get that brilliant speech in F1.

368
00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:16.799
Yeah, well both of them are good in that, I think.

369
00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:17.819
Yeah, yeah.

370
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:22.440
Sylvester, we've talked about before that one of his driving

371
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.859
forces of the role was the melancholy of the man who has outlived

372
00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:29.220
his friends and that really comes across when he's talking about

373
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:30.660
burnt toast and bus shelters.

374
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.640
You're kind of looking at him going, you don't actually care about

375
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.119
those things, but you won't say what you do care about, whereas

376
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.599
Ace is just staring off into the middle distance and telling us

377
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.500
exactly.

378
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.039
It's all, it's all on the surface for her now, whereas the

379
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:50.759
doctor's still hiding and that feeling she ends with of, I didn't

380
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:51.240
care anymore.

381
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:56.579
I mean, before this podcast we were discussing, of course, the

382
00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:59.279
awful survey we're being put to at the moment.

383
00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:03.720
And sometimes it does feel you get so angry that you don't care

384
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.240
anymore, but you don't not care anymore.

385
00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:11.579
What's happening is your mind is protecting you by saying, you've

386
00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:14.279
got to go on fighting and for that, I have to remove the emotion

387
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:14.819
from somewhere.

388
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.819
So when Ace says, I didn't care anymore and the doctor says, I

389
00:20:17.819 --> 00:20:18.539
think you cared a lot.

390
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:19.319
That's the whole point.

391
00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:23.940
She cared so much. that she was able to put her feelings aside to

392
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.880
take action to destroy the evil.

393
00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:31.019
You know, there is something that is a critique of the doctor in

394
00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:35.220
this and it's a bit subtle, I think, but the doctor lists the

395
00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:37.859
things apart from burnt toast and bus stations.

396
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:43.079
He says there's unrequited love and tyranny and cruelty and aces

397
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.000
responses to right.

398
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:48.180
You know, yeah, there's cruelty and you're doing it to me.

399
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah, because it's an initiative test.

400
00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:51.420
Remember that?

401
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.500
Which is a very strange thing, which isn't properly played up, but

402
00:20:55.500 --> 00:21:00.420
clearly the idea is that this week, a little bit like how Missy is

403
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:03.599
going to be the doctor, you know, in world enough in time.

404
00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:06.539
This week, Ace has to work out what the place is.

405
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.380
And so the doctors brought her here and, you know, she's drawing

406
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:13.980
conclusions and stuff and he's sort of patronising her and the

407
00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:18.000
whole while he knows that this is the house that terrified her as

408
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.200
a child and he's deliberately brought her here and is forcing her

409
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:24.960
to find out for herself that that's what that is.

410
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:28.319
And I always think that the new adventures conception of the

411
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.359
doctor is this sort of manipulator.

412
00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:34.319
I think I actually think that that's reading a little bit too much

413
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:35.940
depth into this era.

414
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.259
But here, I think there is a sort of, it's underplayed, but there

415
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:43.079
is a sort of an intention here that the doctor is being rather

416
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.559
callous in the way that he exposes Ace to this.

417
00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:50.220
And, you know, she achieves some sort of catharsis, I think, as a

418
00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:50.519
result.

419
00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:54.599
Yeah, and the important thing to note is getting back to that

420
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:58.380
dinner scene, the doctor doesn't know the full story before he

421
00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:59.099
brings her here.

422
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:01.319
He doesn't know that she burnt down the house.

423
00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:05.160
And when he finds that out, he is genuinely sad that he's done

424
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:05.279
it.

425
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:09.240
He has a lot of faith, not just in her, but in, I think, in

426
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:10.619
circumstances to resolve.

427
00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:13.500
The man is essentially an optimist or he wouldn't keep going.

428
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:18.240
So he does that thing, that full, he's the holy fool, if you like

429
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.619
call the tarot card zero.

430
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.220
He's the one that jumps in and trusts his people around him and

431
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:27.539
trusts that people will, when shown a better way, perhaps choose

432
00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:28.019
them.

433
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.779
He does always give an alternative, doesn't he?

434
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:31.980
He does always give them a chance.

435
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:36.599
It gets more callow and constraint and I think colder in the new

436
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:40.140
series, which is a literal fan interpretation through the new

437
00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:43.380
adventures of the last full television doctor.

438
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:47.160
I think we, our current doctors are much harder than our classic

439
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.480
series doctors actually were.

440
00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:53.279
And also, in terms of the new series, a lot more inconsistent.

441
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:57.779
Like, if you look at early, early on in David Tennant's tenure, the

442
00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:00.720
Christmas invasion, you know, he drops the Sicorax leader off the

443
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:02.700
side of the ship saying no 2nd chances.

444
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.940
Meanwhile, Cassandra poisons a whole hospital full of people in

445
00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:06.359
it.

446
00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:09.240
Okay, yeah, I'll take you back and give you closure. 2 weeks later

447
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.180
with brother Lassar in school reunion.

448
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.460
He's just like, no, I'm going to put you down.

449
00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:16.920
And then I'm going to use my robot dog to blow you up.

450
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:18.420
It's like, what are you doing?

451
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.559
And that's because of the virgin new adventures, reinterpretation

452
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:24.180
I think, of Silv's doctor.

453
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.779
But he's actually, I feel much more, let's just go and have a look

454
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.779
something's a bit odd here, but I trust everything and more

455
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:33.960
importantly, everyone to do their best and it will turn out.

456
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:36.420
It is foolhardy.

457
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.720
But I do believe he works from acts of faith.

458
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:41.039
Yeah, absolutely.

459
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:43.799
And we are sounding a bit songs of praise on a Sunday.

460
00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:48.539
For a good reason, because Silv himself goes through life that

461
00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:48.720
way.

462
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.299
And when he talks about his childhood and those fantastic issues

463
00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:55.920
of Doctor Who monthly, well, all magazine as it's now called for

464
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.640
you young people.

465
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:01.619
Yeah, the last one he did was really superb when he's talked many

466
00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:06.000
times about how he works in faith in his life and just, you know

467
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.119
give people the benefit and hopefully they'll come good because

468
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:10.140
that's really all you can do.

469
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.759
That's actually one of the best lessons I took from this series in

470
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:15.420
this doctor.

471
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:17.160
That's why he is actually one of my favourite doctors.

472
00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:22.200
Yeah, because here, even though he is being a bit cruel and a bit

473
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.420
callous, he's not setting out to hurt.

474
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.319
Is it callousness though?

475
00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:28.319
I don't think testing, because we all get tested.

476
00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:33.480
Is testing a callous act, or is it merely you have these tools, we

477
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:35.640
expect you to evolve into who you're meant to be?

478
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.140
I think that not giving her the choice, you know, that just

479
00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:42.960
springing this on her. does choose to travel with him.

480
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:45.779
Yeah, I know, but springing this on her is thoughtless.

481
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:48.839
And of course, it turns out for the best because this is Doctor

482
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:49.319
Who.

483
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:52.319
But certainly she interprets it as cruelty in that speech.

484
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:55.980
But the show doesn't dwell on that because that's not what it's

485
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:56.220
about.

486
00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.180
I mean, this is more characterisation and more driven by the

487
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:03.299
companion's background and stuff than we've ever been used to, but

488
00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:04.740
it's still not the new series.

489
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:09.359
It's still not, you know, quite as soapy and character driven as

490
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:10.440
the new series becomes.

491
00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:12.299
No, it's entirely different from that.

492
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.019
The metaphor of the testing is actually of the greater narrative

493
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:19.019
and is that we are all being tested to see how we can live with

494
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:22.740
each other and respect each other's humanity in a society that is

495
00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:26.759
now structured on growth for its own sake, and change for its own

496
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.400
sake, and improvement, and all of this simply means capital

497
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:30.119
improvement.

498
00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:33.480
It doesn't mean improvement of character, sensibility or intent

499
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.680
which is why Lady Pritchard and Gwendolen had to be frozen in

500
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.000
stone because that's their...

501
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:41.460
Oh, we never used karma in the old series.

502
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:48.480
So that's a misreading of contemporary styles, but that is their

503
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.259
evolution based on how they have conducted themselves into this

504
00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:52.440
point.

505
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:58.019
This is really very much an, you can see, if Mark Platt didn't go

506
00:25:58.019 --> 00:26:01.559
to Anglican Sunday school under the Reverend Nicholas Parsons, I'd

507
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:04.500
like to know who he was under because this really does feel like

508
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:09.000
Sunday school parables in the best possible ladybird illustrated

509
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:09.599
book way.

510
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:12.779
If you treat people well, you may not have a good life, but your

511
00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:15.779
intentions will propel you honourably, and that will be your

512
00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:16.259
companion.

513
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:19.440
Certainly, Lady Pritchard and Gwendolen are...

514
00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:20.039
Are buggers?

515
00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:21.539
Well, they're judged by the doctor.

516
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:23.880
Like the doctor says, you know, I could have forgiven her sending

517
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:26.819
all those pyjama if she hadn't enjoyed it so much.

518
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.599
And there's actually, she's, it's the closest we get to the

519
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.480
tenant's coldness, isn't it, to the 10th doctor's coldness.

520
00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:36.359
Well, and he's really very, like he doesn't dwell on that.

521
00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:38.339
It's just a very clear judgement.

522
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:43.079
And Gwendolen is sexualised in a really...

523
00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:47.640
Well, but in a really sort of creepy way, her enjoyment of sending

524
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.299
the Reverend Matthews to Java. you know, like she's kind of

525
00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:54.180
straddling Josiah at that point.

526
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:58.559
And there is a very kind of definite sexual element to the

527
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:03.299
environment and early sexualisation is always hand in glove, isn't

528
00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:03.480
it?

529
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:08.160
Yeah, not to mention the queerness of Ace and Gwendolyn running

530
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.400
around in... like a music hall trollop. like a music hall

531
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:12.000
trollop.

532
00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:13.920
That's also very Lewis Carr or whatever.

533
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:17.940
But the reveal of that is kind of sexualised as well because

534
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.880
they're behind the screen and say, oh, we can't go out like this.

535
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:26.460
A lot of fan thought had gone into what was going on behind the

536
00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:28.380
screens, matron, for that one.

537
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.980
And, you know, Gwendolen and Ace fighting on the bed while

538
00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:33.839
controlling egging them on.

539
00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:37.740
But of course, with control, it's like, new gameplay. control go

540
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:38.039
next.

541
00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:40.140
God, she's brilliant.

542
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:42.000
I love Sharon Deus's control.

543
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:43.559
She's wonderful isn't she?

544
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:45.240
She's terribly good.

545
00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:47.819
Can I pivot?

546
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.640
There is one thing in the storytelling, which I think is really

547
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:55.140
unusual, and that is that incredible way.

548
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:59.160
You know, Doctor Who isn't very good at telling us when it's night

549
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:01.559
and day and things just sort of go on and on.

550
00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:05.519
You know, like the doctor arrives on Scaro and leaves 6 episodes

551
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:09.000
later, but who knows how many days he's been there or whatever.

552
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:12.599
Here, there's a night that happens.

553
00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:15.000
Like, things happen at night.

554
00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:19.559
And so Ace falls asleep and while she's been asleep all night

555
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.740
suddenly we wake up and the doctor's been doing all of this stuff

556
00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:26.220
in the background and it is that sort of muddling through with

557
00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:30.660
faith that you mentioned Richard because he's sort of said all

558
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:33.420
these things in motion without really knowing what's going to

559
00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:35.099
happen or how it's going to turn out.

560
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:39.660
It really wrongfoots you, I think, because you're used to in the

561
00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:43.079
narrative following the doctor and seeing what the doctor does, but

562
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.500
wireless is asleep, we don't get to see what's going on as well.

563
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:50.279
So she wakes up and we suddenly see that the whole plot has moved

564
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.519
on while we haven't been sort of privy to her.

565
00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:56.400
Which is something that the new adventures will pick up on.

566
00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:59.579
And I have, I did take a bit of a break from my blog, but it's

567
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:00.000
back now.

568
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:05.220
And, you know, most recently I've read Cat's Cradle, Warhead by

569
00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:09.779
Andrew Cartmel, which is it's lousy with the doctor running around

570
00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:11.460
in the background while other things happen.

571
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:16.440
But something Cartmel does well is experimenting with story

572
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:17.220
structure.

573
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:19.140
And that's an example here as well.

574
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.920
Mark Platt had been trying to write for the series since 1975.

575
00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:27.839
The 1st story he submitted to Robert Holmes was called Fires of

576
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:31.680
the Star Mind, and it was a story set on Gallifrey.

577
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:33.720
Wow, it sounds terrible.

578
00:29:33.779 --> 00:29:35.400
It sounds totally fan.

579
00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:38.880
Now, this is this is pre-deadly assassin.

580
00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:39.420
Yes.

581
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:44.220
But he came to the conclusion that Time Lords store their data on

582
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:49.619
beams of light, and a creature made of light uses this to invade

583
00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:51.539
Gallifre. actually really sexy.

584
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:57.720
And also kind of pretty on top of the pops, glam pop rock at the

585
00:29:57.720 --> 00:29:57.960
time.

586
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:03.359
We had been to Galifre, and it did look like a game show. didn't

587
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:03.480
it?

588
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:05.400
We could have had Nicholas Parsons again.

589
00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:06.839
But here's the thing.

590
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:07.920
Sale of the century, go on.

591
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:10.500
Robert Holmes rejects that on the grounds that it doesn't have

592
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:13.200
like a tangible villain, which was of course...

593
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:16.559
It's a big thing that Hinchcliffe and Holmes always did is, you

594
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.240
know, you always had a villain.

595
00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:20.700
You had your Su Tech, you had your Harrison Chase, you had your

596
00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:21.000
master.

597
00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:26.220
But the next year they do deadly assassin with information stored

598
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:27.119
as holograms.

599
00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:31.319
The year after that, Graham Williams...

600
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:35.220
Graham Williams does aliens who invade Gallifre on thought waves.

601
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:37.920
So they don't...

602
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.000
What bugger?

603
00:30:39.059 --> 00:30:39.839
Yeah, exactly.

604
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:44.460
So then for season 23. expire to Shepherd's Bush.

605
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:47.400
For season 23, television centre.

606
00:30:47.460 --> 00:30:51.960
Mark Platt submitted Cat's Cradle, which became the novel Cat's

607
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.839
Cradle, Time is Crucible, which God is hard to get through.

608
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.359
We've all read them, but no one can remember a single thing, can

609
00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:57.720
we?

610
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.599
Has it got a giant slug in it?

611
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:01.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

612
00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:02.940
Dr. Doolittle, yeah.

613
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.740
Eric Saywood turned it down for reasons of prohibitive cost.

614
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:08.279
Oh, okay.

615
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:10.619
And it's like, yeah, it would have been really hard to make, and

616
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:13.440
the compromises that would have to be done to it to get it on

617
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:14.880
screen would have robbed it of its power.

618
00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:19.259
So this story, it started life as lung barrow.

619
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:23.039
So the house was going to be the doctor's ancestral house, et

620
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:23.759
cetera, et cetera.

621
00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:27.299
And John Nathan Turner and Andrew Cartmel liked it, but said

622
00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:29.700
unfortunately, we're going in this direction where we don't want

623
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:30.900
to reveal stuff about the doctor.

624
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:32.519
Let's keep the haunted house.

625
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:35.099
But why don't we make it about Ace?

626
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:38.099
And that's when it became Beastieary and eventually Ghost Bise.

627
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:39.900
And of course, set in the 70s.

628
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.839
As a sort of Sweeney minder kind of thing.

629
00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:44.759
But that's what Platt wanted.

630
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:47.279
And it was, oh, no, no, it's too recent history.

631
00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:48.059
It's too recent.

632
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.380
Now it won't feel historical.

633
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.859
I'm really glad they did that because you've got all the BBC frock

634
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:53.279
department.

635
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:57.359
And yeah, I mean, having it set in the 70s as the house that Ace

636
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:01.319
will go back to in 10 years doesn't feel like something exciting.

637
00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:04.140
It would have been more sapphire. steel.

638
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:04.740
Yeah.

639
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:05.039
Yeah.

640
00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:07.920
But it's like, you know, having it as the house that she will

641
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:09.900
destroy in a 100 years time.

642
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.859
And somehow for me, and I'm not exactly sure why.

643
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.240
Maybe you guys have got an opinion on this.

644
00:32:15.299 --> 00:32:20.940
A lot of time travel stories will look at it and go, like Rose

645
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:24.660
does in The Unquiet Dead, but I know that the earth wasn't invaded

646
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:28.680
by zombies in 1869. from 1918, 1988.

647
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.180
James Selwood would often say.

648
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:33.900
No one brings it up in this story that, you know, history can't

649
00:32:33.900 --> 00:32:37.140
change because it's already been burned down in 1883.

650
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.079
Ace, of course, says no control, don't burn the house down.

651
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:40.740
That's what I did.

652
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:45.000
But it never occurs to me watching this that, well, hold on.

653
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:46.319
I know everything's going to be all right.

654
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:48.960
They somehow managed to avoid that.

655
00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:51.480
Well, it's Doctor Who and you know everything's going to be all

656
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:51.720
right.

657
00:32:51.779 --> 00:32:54.059
You know, the world's not going to be destroyed.

658
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:54.960
The doctor will save it.

659
00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:57.779
I mean, I always thought that sort of was a rather pointless

660
00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:57.960
thing.

661
00:32:58.019 --> 00:32:58.859
You know what I mean?

662
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.380
Yes, of course, the doctor's going to defeat Zue Tech, for God's

663
00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:01.619
sake.

664
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.400
Have you been watching the show?

665
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.700
Luckily, she is back with Australia.

666
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.160
After 2 weeks lost in the wilderness.

667
00:33:08.220 --> 00:33:09.839
We might put something up on the blog about that.

668
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:11.940
It's an extraordinary story.

669
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.700
Yeah, I hadn't I hadn't alluded to that, Richard, because I didn't

670
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:17.339
know if you wanted people to realise that.

671
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.559
Yeah, she was lost out in Mount Druitt.

672
00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:22.559
She climbed Mount Druitt for the, for the, yes, we've all had an

673
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.740
epic adventure, but she's back here with us now and being quiet.

674
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:27.180
But yeah, I'm sure we'll hear from her soon.

675
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:29.519
We're going to give her our own mic, can't we?

676
00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:31.559
Yeah, silent villains, I think.

677
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:37.200
I agree that these, this is, I would suggest Nathan's definition

678
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:41.279
of high concept, and I feel it's successful.

679
00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:44.579
The thing that really grabs me with this, we haven't talked much

680
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:48.000
about the story because like just everybody knows it, but I would

681
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.779
really just like to know if people feel it's successful in its own

682
00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:52.079
terms.

683
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:56.460
I had to, I have to admit, I did have to watch it more than once

684
00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:00.119
when it 1st came out and we had VHS, but mostly because that you

685
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:03.000
need a United Nations simultaneous translator for whenever

686
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:04.440
Sylvester McCoy opened his mouth.

687
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:06.420
Oh, I think that you encarted.

688
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.480
The music is loud for middle-aged young people.

689
00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:10.320
It is.

690
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.980
And and Marquez has gone on record as saying I didn't write it

691
00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:14.639
that loud.

692
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:17.099
Alan Waring pumped it up in the dub.

693
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:18.480
Alan Waring, yes.

694
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:19.679
He does like things his own way.

695
00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:24.360
And in fact, Mr. Waring. and Mr. McCoy did have differences of

696
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.519
artistic opinion during this shoot, didn't they?

697
00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:30.780
Although wearing, I think, is the best director of the McCoy era.

698
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:32.760
I think he gets it very tight.

699
00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:34.800
I like actually, I really like Nicholas Mallett.

700
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.139
But yeah, he does.

701
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.539
But I think the conflict actually helps because the conflict

702
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:42.599
within the story within any narrative will actually be reflected

703
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:43.559
in people's behaviour.

704
00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:46.980
You look at any project or any job you're working on, we assume

705
00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:49.980
the mantle, the emotional mantle of whatever we're doing.

706
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:51.960
That's what art history is.

707
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:53.460
Yeah, owning it.

708
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:55.800
I do think it works.

709
00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:58.019
I think it's extremely accomplished.

710
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:02.219
And I, I think, you know, part of the reason that it's difficult

711
00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:08.280
to understand is a, the plot isn't like hugely well thought out.

712
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.039
Is it just that it has a circular plot?

713
00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:13.980
It works better as a novel.

714
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:15.960
It works better as a piece of writing.

715
00:35:16.019 --> 00:35:18.840
And like all good writing, it's constantly alluding to other works

716
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.119
to enrich the text.

717
00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:23.820
Yeah, I think it's too much a page that's filmed.

718
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:26.699
Well, I think you need to read it more like the mind robber than

719
00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:30.719
the Zygon, which is also entirely literary-based.

720
00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:34.320
Yeah, you know, the idea that these are aliens that are

721
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.619
interacting in a certain way and, you know, that this is straight

722
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.960
science fiction, that's just nonsense.

723
00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:43.559
It's all kind of weird and metaphorical and cultural and stuff.

724
00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:46.980
I mean, you know, evolution works in this story, the way that

725
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:49.260
Victorian gentlemen thought it worked.

726
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.199
It doesn't work the way it actually works.

727
00:35:52.440 --> 00:36:00.360
The husks in the basement are there to kind of do the episode one

728
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.860
cliffhanger, kind of fulfil the insistence that they needed to be

729
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:08.940
a monster in it, and also to kind of reference the dressed animals

730
00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:11.099
of Alice in Wonderland.

731
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:12.239
But they don't make sense.

732
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:15.659
I mean, control doesn't leave a series of husks behind her as she

733
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:16.260
evolves.

734
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:19.380
You know, so none of that stuff matters.

735
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:22.440
You know, that background, you know, which is there's a sort of

736
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:26.880
thrown away exchange about, you know, control is me and the survey

737
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.880
is just sire, which I think happens in episode two.

738
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:32.219
And Nimrod is in the book of Genesis.

739
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a mighty hunter.

740
00:36:35.340 --> 00:36:36.719
But it doesn't matter.

741
00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:37.739
Like none of that matters.

742
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:42.420
What matters is how incredibly beautiful it looks, what the music

743
00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:46.199
is like, the way it's choreographed, the way that it moves

744
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.420
effortlessly from scene to scene.

745
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:53.340
It suffers slightly from the cart more problem, which is scripts

746
00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:57.000
that run too long and then need to be chopped up. to reach, you

747
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.500
know, a sensible running time.

748
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.760
But anyone who's watching this, expecting it to be like claws of

749
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.699
axos or something is just reading it the wrong way.

750
00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:12.659
And I think it ends on such a powerful scene when Control Nimrod

751
00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:18.960
Josiah and Redburz depart because they depart to go travelling to

752
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.139
see the universe, not to control and restrict it.

753
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.619
You know, they sort of say, we'll go visit other cultures, and we

754
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.579
will do a survey.

755
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.719
But the surveys in the sense of we'll look around and see what's

756
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:31.019
out there.

757
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.340
And Ace's speech, which we've spoken of before, and, you know

758
00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:39.360
whether a white character saying white kids fire bomber is mawkish

759
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:39.780
or not.

760
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:44.519
But Ace kind of sees herself as postracial.

761
00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:48.059
She doesn't see any difference between herself and Manisha and

762
00:37:48.059 --> 00:37:50.760
cannot get inside the heads of people who do.

763
00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:53.460
And that's the message of the story.

764
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.519
The message of the story is acceptance.

765
00:37:56.579 --> 00:38:01.559
Not tolerance, but acceptance, accepting of others who are

766
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:06.539
different and not seeking to diminish or control them, but to go

767
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:07.380
out and meet them.

768
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:13.139
And control says to the doctor, you are not in our catalogue, nor

769
00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:13.980
will you ever be.

770
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:20.400
Now, she has no pun intended, the control and the power to put him

771
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.820
in the catalogue and to tell everyone that there's this traveller

772
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:27.300
who's going to come around and mess your stuff up if you screw

773
00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:27.900
up.

774
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.780
But instead, she's going out to see the universe now.

775
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:31.980
She's not going out to rule it.

776
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:35.460
She's not going out to take over planets like Josiah.

777
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.699
So there's no need to warn people about the doctor because the

778
00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:40.980
people who are going out to explore the universe don't need to be

779
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:42.360
warned about the doctor.

780
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:43.619
Hello, travellers.

781
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:44.460
Yeah, exactly.

782
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:48.420
And even when they leave, you know, there's there's this sense of

783
00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:51.360
danger with the doctorate ace running away from takeoff and

784
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:52.679
they're saying we need to get away from the blast.

785
00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:55.079
And the doctor's, no, they're already gone.

786
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:58.739
Even their form of transport is peaceful and non-disruptive.

787
00:38:58.860 --> 00:38:59.639
It's a passing thaw.

788
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:04.260
It's, you know, like they've, again, it mythologises them, doesn't

789
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:04.440
it?

790
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:06.119
They travel by the panel.

791
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.980
Is it made of calcium silicate?

792
00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:09.719
Who cares?

793
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.559
Great many fan listeners.

794
00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:15.360
This is most important thing.

795
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:19.559
Well, I do think, you know, like it's a stone spaceship. grown

796
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:20.579
from the earth, I'd like to believe.

797
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:23.340
Well, I just sort of think it's like the fortress of solitude, but

798
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:24.840
rockier and therefore cheaper.

799
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:30.599
Without Marlon Brando's floating head in it. like doing a lovely

800
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:32.639
melee pre-Raphaelite angel.

801
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:35.940
I mean, look, there is any point on which we want to focus on this

802
00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:36.300
story.

803
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:41.699
We can harp and soliloquy on how, on how resonant and radiant it

804
00:39:41.699 --> 00:39:41.940
is.

805
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:47.820
But I think coming from the social aspect and as in the Carmel, and

806
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:49.320
McCoy is.

807
00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:53.099
And I think JNT needs to be included, simply allowing them their

808
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:57.179
heads, is that they're actually about social commentary, which

809
00:39:57.179 --> 00:39:59.099
living in at the time and being there.

810
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:00.300
Of course, it's contemporary.

811
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:00.840
You don't see it.

812
00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:05.280
But this is really very much a series that, as Kart more later

813
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:09.119
admitted, that was doing exactly what we now have, the news quiz

814
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:10.199
or we now have.

815
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:14.099
So many other programs that are satirical, that comment, but at

816
00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.079
the time, we had this.

817
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:21.059
Well, remember that there are 2 stories this season with evolution

818
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:26.280
or survival of the fittest as their theme, and it is also a theme

819
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:30.480
I guess, in Curse of Fenrick as well, given where the ancient

820
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:31.619
hemivore comes from.

821
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:39.659
And that idea of competition for resources was kind of part of the

822
00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:43.619
ideological justification for that sort of neoliberalism, that

823
00:40:43.619 --> 00:40:49.559
Thatcherite capitalism, where, you know, the idea of helping

824
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:53.820
people and supporting the needy and using the taxes you collect in

825
00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:58.559
order to alleviate the suffering of people who are badly off were

826
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.719
seen as a temptation, a distortion.

827
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:04.139
Yeah, there's no such thing of society.

828
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:08.159
There's individuals, you know, and there are so that's where

829
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:10.019
that's coming from.

830
00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:18.480
And also the rigidity of light who wants everything categorised

831
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.360
and whom the doctor condemns is lacking imagination.

832
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:23.639
You know, he wants everything stopped.

833
00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:27.059
He wants it to be simple, he wants it to be able to be understood

834
00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:29.940
but what survives, light doesn't survive.

835
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.840
What survives is this incredibly bizarre, random assortment of

836
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.059
people who end up in the spaceship.

837
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.739
You know, like it's not like, and there's there's a Neanderthal

838
00:41:40.739 --> 00:41:44.519
and then there's this woman who used to be like a sort of scary

839
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:48.480
monster in the basement and there's a sort of crazy...

840
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:49.980
You're already at me.

841
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.960
I live on the top floor.

842
00:41:52.019 --> 00:41:53.400
I've had my basement moments.

843
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.440
Ladies and gents.

844
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:59.099
We haven't talked much about Ian Hoggs, Josiah, or indeed, why

845
00:41:59.099 --> 00:42:03.119
Josiah is so reprehensible to Reverend Matthews.

846
00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:07.079
What is it that's so appalling about wanting to be a Victorian

847
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:07.559
gentleman?

848
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.900
Matthews does say, you know, you're a worse scoundrel than

849
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:13.800
Darwin.

850
00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:21.719
And so it is the idea that, you know, evolution poses a threat to

851
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:26.460
Matthew's sort of fairly rigid conceptions of what the world is

852
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:28.019
like and how it got here.

853
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:33.960
And I think that that's because he is, as I said before, kind of a

854
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:35.159
precursor to light.

855
00:42:35.219 --> 00:42:41.579
And also, Josiah, Josiah is a bit interesting in his desire to be

856
00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:46.199
a Victorian gentleman, because it seems to all be about the

857
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:49.559
physical form of the Victorian gentleman, because Matthews is

858
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.860
there telling him how a Victorian gentleman should behave.

859
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:57.119
When Matthews 1st sees Ace, of course, he reacts in horror to her

860
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:03.960
off the shoulder, Blousson, whereas when Josiah sees Ace and

861
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:09.719
Gwendolen in their men's suits, he's just like, oh, how

862
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:11.579
interesting and inventive.

863
00:43:11.699 --> 00:43:16.559
Josiah, as a Victorian gentleman, is obsessed by novelty and

864
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:19.380
newness because there are evolutions and changes.

865
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:24.900
He comes up with this insane plan, which never is really explained

866
00:43:24.900 --> 00:43:28.980
why he thinks assassinating Queen Victoria will mean he's able to

867
00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:29.820
become king.

868
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:34.679
But I think I think he's basically attempting a political coup.

869
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:37.199
So he's going to kill the Queen and then take over as emperor

870
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:38.099
rather than king.

871
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:41.460
I actually think it's a little bit overstaffed, the script.

872
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:43.619
I wonder why that's...

873
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:46.860
I actually think this is Platt's take on the dichotomy within

874
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:51.239
neoliberal thinking because to me, it's Nietzschean.

875
00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:56.280
There's a line in there that from beyond good and evil, that

876
00:43:56.280 --> 00:44:00.059
Josiah quotes, and I actually think this is the really interesting

877
00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:03.480
and unworking dichotomy within the politics of the time.

878
00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:05.039
You are meant to be a self-made man.

879
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:07.500
You are meant to be jet propelled and self-propelled and wear a

880
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:08.880
cape and be the greatest thing.

881
00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:11.519
But that, of course, is blasphemous because you must also be

882
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:11.940
humble.

883
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.739
So the structure itself crumbles within and of itself just as

884
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:22.079
Josiah's skin crumbles, as his, as his carapace is moved from one

885
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:22.559
to the other.

886
00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:27.719
The entire postulate of this, of this concept of the self-made man

887
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:32.400
is itself counterdistinctive to what they're supposed to be.

888
00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:36.719
And so you've even got critiquing of the narrative itself within

889
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.940
the narrative between Matthews.

890
00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:40.739
That's how bloody clever this really is.

891
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.579
Because the Nietzschean concept of the Superman.

892
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:49.079
Is it odds with the Victorian values of these, well, when you

893
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:50.639
because, and that's what it comes down to.

894
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:55.380
You can't actually ally scripture or the base concept of the New

895
00:44:55.380 --> 00:45:00.179
Testament with the notion of overweening capitalism or huburistic

896
00:45:00.179 --> 00:45:01.500
intent for expansion.

897
00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:02.579
They don't work together.

898
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:04.739
Yeah, I think it's true.

899
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:10.079
And this story kind of shows that of any set doctrine or scripture

900
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:15.960
or set of rules, if you try to live your life by them entirely, you

901
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:18.480
won't live a life, you'll become like the Reverend Matthews.

902
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:24.840
You'll become like Josiah, whereas you should be more like control

903
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:26.940
or Redvers or Nimrod.

904
00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:30.599
Now, they're all a bit odd, and Redvers, literally.

905
00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:31.739
Yay, Soo Tech.

906
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.519
Redvers, literally, you know, goes mad during the course of the

907
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:38.099
story and finds himself again and by the end is still referring to

908
00:45:38.099 --> 00:45:39.059
himself in the 3rd person.

909
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.199
So he might not quite be there, but he is his own person, as shown

910
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.579
by the fact when he invites control to the dinner instead of

911
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:48.119
desire.

912
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:48.780
Yes.

913
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:53.460
Despite the fact that he understands she may not be a lady, but

914
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:55.800
she's a ladylike, and he likes her.

915
00:45:55.860 --> 00:45:59.400
So he doesn't even say at one point, I don't care for social

916
00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:00.420
niceties.

917
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.320
You know, in a sort of wildian thing, like when Algernon says, I

918
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.300
don't give a damn about Cecily's profile.

919
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:08.400
I'm glad you mentioned world.

920
00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:10.380
Do you know who Mark Platt's parents actually are?

921
00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:12.420
Oscar Wild?

922
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:13.920
Mr. and Mrs. Platt.

923
00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:14.880
And Lord Douglas.

924
00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:17.760
Hurst Platt and Gwendolyn Platt.

925
00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:19.320
Ernest and Gwendoline.

926
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:23.039
I'm really not joking.

927
00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:24.179
That's lovely.

928
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:28.199
Marcus said this and his obsession with Wild goes back to his

929
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:32.639
preteen years because they were always making jokes of it and

930
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.639
quoting earnest at each other.

931
00:46:35.699 --> 00:46:37.199
Have you got a cucumber, dear?

932
00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:38.460
No, I can't say that.

933
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:40.619
Wasn't one in the markets for love nor money.

934
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:41.639
This kind of thing.

935
00:46:41.699 --> 00:46:44.460
So he grew up in that really rebald, silly sort of house where

936
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:47.099
there was all of that literary lampooning going on.

937
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:48.960
Of course he's going to write something like this.

938
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:54.480
And of course, he has gone on to write so much.

939
00:46:54.539 --> 00:46:55.920
All good stuff too.

940
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:58.800
Cradle of the snake, spare parts.

941
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:01.800
Whenever any of the Philip Hinchcliffe presents.

942
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:05.219
It's mostly Mark Platt, who's adapting Philip Hinchcliffe's

943
00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:05.940
ideas.

944
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.019
The good too.

945
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:08.039
I like the 1st one.

946
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:12.360
Point of entry, which was one of the most surprising sex doctor

947
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:13.139
lost stories.

948
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:15.480
Double entendres that we've had, yes.

949
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:20.880
With Nicola Bryant pretending to be a British monarch in Jacobe in

950
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:21.179
England.

951
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:21.900
Wow.

952
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:22.800
Which is actually quite good.

953
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:23.400
She is.

954
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:24.780
I mean, from a story...

955
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.380
That's just the accent.

956
00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:27.480
From a story by Barbara Clegg.

957
00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:30.480
So the writers of Enlightenment and Ghostlight having a baby

958
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.920
together at last.

959
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:36.179
Just before we finish, I would like to mention the very last

960
00:47:36.179 --> 00:47:37.079
scene.

961
00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:41.039
So it's, of course, the doctor and ace discussing what will happen

962
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:42.599
to the house in 100 years.

963
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.300
And Ace says that she only has one regret.

964
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.599
She wishes she'd blown it up rather than burnt it down.

965
00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:52.739
Now, in the script, the final line that doctor says was that's my

966
00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:52.980
girl.

967
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:56.400
And it was actually Sylvester.

968
00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:59.099
And this goes back to what I was saying about acceptance.

969
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.639
It was Sylvester who said, no, no, no, you know what?

970
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:07.139
The doctor has been teaching Ace, and he's trying, and at that

971
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:09.960
point, there was talk that Ace would go to the Time Lord Academy

972
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:11.760
and that had been discussed with the actors.

973
00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:15.360
And the doctor was like, he, you know, she's his protégé.

974
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:19.380
We need to show a way that he respects her on her own terms.

975
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:20.699
He's not just trying to turn her into something.

976
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.480
He's trying to train her, so she can take her uniqueness out into

977
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:24.960
the universe.

978
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:28.559
And that's why instead of saying that's my girl, he responds

979
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:29.039
wicked.

980
00:48:29.099 --> 00:48:32.940
That was Sylvester's idea of saying, I want the doctor to accept

981
00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:34.139
days on her own terms.

982
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:38.880
There's no condescensional patronising in the term when he of

983
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:39.119
that.

984
00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:42.659
And it would also be diminutive of a vase.

985
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:44.400
So he simply mirrors her back.

986
00:48:44.460 --> 00:48:48.539
And also shows that I love the intent, but not necessarily

987
00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:50.099
condoning the action.

988
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:52.199
Yes, it is a double meaning.

989
00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:54.599
He does mean, you know, you're a naughty person.

990
00:48:54.659 --> 00:48:56.699
Naughty, naughty girl.

991
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:59.760
I just wish we'd had one of these with sylvan drag.

992
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:01.739
It's so unfair.

993
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.400
This would have been perfect rather than Ace and Gwendolen doing a

994
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:05.940
frock up.

995
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:08.699
It could have been Red Vers and Silv.

996
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:11.639
He would have made the most astonishing Lady Bracknell in this one

997
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:12.719
at the dinner party.

998
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:15.780
And I would have not I wouldn't have clashed at all.

999
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:18.659
He could have sat there and said, I know, very good.

1000
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:23.760
Very good Indian takeaway up Yakaiba Pass, so to speak, and it

1001
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.039
would have worked beautifully, and there would have been also

1002
00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:27.000
filth.

1003
00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:28.500
Cut.

1004
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:59.820
Wilderness, that way, it's getting off from Gabriel Chase, and

1005
00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:02.039
we're off for dinner somewhere, but I don't think I'll eat the

1006
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:02.519
soup.

1007
00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:07.739
Do come back next week, of course, as we take just a minute with

1008
00:50:07.739 --> 00:50:09.119
the curse of Fenrick.

1009
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:12.960
Until then, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entirety Doc

1010
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:16.019
Sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and

1011
00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:17.579
at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1012
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:20.940
Do please leave a five-star review over on Bondfinger.

1013
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.320
We are almost about to finish the Pierce Brosnan era of James

1014
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:25.980
Bond.

1015
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:30.599
And in the coming months, we have a few special Bondfinger

1016
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:32.039
episodes coming for you as well.

1017
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:34.800
Some rather unexpected things, we think.

1018
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:38.940
So do come back for that that you can find Bondfinger at

1019
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:42.719
Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, Bondfingercast on

1020
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.840
Twitter and Bondfinger.com.

1021
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:49.739
Until next week, however, may your freeness not bite.

1022
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:51.300
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1023
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:51.960
Good night.

1024
00:50:52.019 --> 00:50:53.400
A hand button.

1025
00:51:11.460 --> 00:51:14.159
That was slime through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1026
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:17.820
Jones, and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, logo

1027
00:51:17.820 --> 00:51:19.739
designed by Anthony Wells.

1028
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:23.219
This episode, Gog and Magog, was recorded on the 30th of September

1029
00:51:23.219 --> 00:51:24.239
2017.

1030
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.900
The next episode will be released on the 29th of October.

1031
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.440
If you want to be a ladylike, why not enrol in the Gabriel Chase

1032
00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:37.260
finishing school, where you can learn which fork to use when

1033
00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:40.260
eating cockroach, and where the carved's brains are served before

1034
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:42.659
or after the primordial soup called.

1035
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.480
Ghost Light, 30th of September.

1036
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:51.239
Oh, we should try and be hilarious.

1037
00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:57.000
I'm just seeing if they have the savages on Audible.

1038
00:51:57.059 --> 00:51:59.940
Richard, could you just give me your level, please?

1039
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.500
Yeah, it's here.

1040
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.000
Tissu tech.

1041
00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:04.440
Please give me a level.

1042
00:52:04.500 --> 00:52:05.579
Thank you.

1043
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:06.300
Perfect.

1044
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:07.980
It's on there, Les Sauvage.

1045
00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:12.000
The Dan Savages.

1046
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.320
Oh, expect I've already purchased it.

1047
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:15.780
Of course I am.

1048
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:19.559
Okey-dokey.

1049
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:21.840
We all good?

1050
00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:22.739
I think so.

1051
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:23.519
News.

1052
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:31.260
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through

1053
00:52:31.260 --> 00:52:31.800
Entirety.

1054
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:34.320
The only Doctor Who podcast whose heresies appal you.

1055
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:37.320
So what is, damn it.

1056
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:39.179
Oh, what am I this one?

1057
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:40.380
Heresies are for you.

1058
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:41.940
Something outrageous.

1059
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.159
Theories appal you. heresy's outrageous.

1060
00:52:44.219 --> 00:52:44.400
Okay.