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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:26:18

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast who knows exactly how dangerous a

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single finger can be.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm Todd.

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And my pussies come back looking like it's been dragged through a

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hedge backwards.

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It's one of those very special missions that requires all 4 of us

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downtown Perivale in survival.

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It's a true story, too.

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Firstly, I would like to say, welcome back, Todd.

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Bit away for quite a while.

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It seems like ages, actually, but I'm here enjoying my chalk chip

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Madeira cake and the plain Madeira cake.

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Thank you, Brendan.

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And there's other cakes as well, supplied by Richard, so it's cake

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named for a long time.

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No, no, no.

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It was part of our original mission statement.

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So it's kind of nice to come back to it.

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A lot of things have come full circle, haven't they, on this

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story?

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It's nice that we're doing unearthly child again, is it?

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Well, it's skulls and fleas and desultory London.

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Yeah.

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I think it's, I think it's great that it's set in modern London.

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Yeah, like the original episode.

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And rather than, you know, we have a companion who's who's

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visiting London, just as Susan was visiting London, and we then go

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to another world where, as you said, everyone's riddled with

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fleas.

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And his hair like Eileen White?

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And tea.

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And fire is very dangerous on this planet.

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Before we get too deeply into survival, Todd, when we did Time and

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the Rani, I asked Richard for his general views on the Colin Baker

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era.

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So seeing as you haven't been with us for the Sylvester era, but I

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know you've been watching it, what are your thoughts on the

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Sylvester era up till now?

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No, I wasn't prepared for this.

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I thought this was going to be in the retrospective.

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What are my thoughts on it?

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Well, after.

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Enduring season 24.

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Um, and this is my opinions of that season are very different from

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the rest of the team here.

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Very, very different, but I consider it to be a necessary evil

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because without going into too much detail, Eric Saywood's gone

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you've got a new script editor.

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You've got John Nathan Turner taking a backseat.

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There are things that I agree with you about.

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I agree with you in terms of the fact that the tone is all over

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the shop and it just doesn't work for me.

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But behind the scenes, decisions have been made and that

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serendipity stuff's happening.

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Like at the end of the season, Bonnie had to say I'm going so that

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Sophie could come and that influences the rest of it.

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And from that point onwards, like, Rememons of the Daleks is

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fantastic.

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Happiness Patrol is out of this world.

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I mean, the 2 of my favourite stories of all time.

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Ghost Light and Kursa Fenrich are just, you know, amazing.

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And the chemistry between Sylvester and Sophie, that energy in

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season 25 is really nice and season 26, they're just so

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comfortable with each other.

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So I've been really enjoying those 4 particular stories.

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Um, I can honestly say that Sylvester is very likeable, and I love

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his sort of, his quite a moments with characters and then his

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mischievousness or his mysteriousness that I think he does very

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well.

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Can't shout to save himself.

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And sometimes the comedy goes too far, but, you know, he's

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likeable, and I think that's something that I enjoy.

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I never considered him to be my least favourite doctor, but I

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never considered him to be my favourite doctor.

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Right?

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I've got more to ask Todd, but for the retrospective, on the

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levels that, um, Sylvester achieves when he actually, how he

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broaches that, and also what Todd thinks about the Mel and Silv, or

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the Mel and the doctor and how that might have gone.

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So that's more for the retrospective later, do listener.

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Yeah, I might have a few things to say about season 24.

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If you could see Podspace, I think you know he does.

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Yeah, there might be a rant.

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I warned people about that. podcast.

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But you know what?

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Like those 4 stories that I mentioned, if they were in the one

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season, it would be unbeatable.

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Like that's how good I think they are, right?

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And and although...

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Oh, and although Battlefield, Greater Show, and Nemesis are not up

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there with them, there's certainly things in all of those stories

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that I like.

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I would say greater shows is my biggest disappointment.

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Because we have listeners who say it's one of the greatest doctors

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stories of all time.

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It's one of my favourite McCoys, but it depends because there are

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so many good ones.

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Yeah, but it's hard to do.

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So every time I watch Greater Show, I think it's going to be

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really brilliant, but then I come away disappointed, and I might

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talk about that in the retrospective, so an MS is just a pile of

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crap, except for the accent, except for any scene with Fiona

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Walker and the skinheads, which are, she is just phenomenal and so

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entertaining, but the rest of it, Oh my god, just shit that away.

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And of course, as I mentioned in our tweeting, Michael Kerrigan

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the director of, no, he's not a director of Battlefield, is just, I

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can see what the actors are doing with a script that has its

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problems, but is also very entertaining.

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I like Battlefield in spite of the director.

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Yeah, right?

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I don't think anyone's going to disagree with you.

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Yeah, no, right.

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But, you know, I think this season, the costume on Sylvester, just

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things that just stick out.

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I love it when he says, think like a physicist.

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Like, that is, like, it's just a little moment that I love.

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And, and the end of Ghostlight, when he says that line about, what

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do you wish she would have done, she says, I wish I would have

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blown it up instead, and he says, wicked.

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That moment is just phenomenal.

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Phil's rewriting. favourite moment.

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I think it's possibly my favourite moment.

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Like, it was filmed last, obviously, in the whole thing and I just

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kind of, that's in the back of my mind.

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Both were actually being filmed.

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This one and Ghostlight, so there was a bit of backing, tuming and

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throwing, according to production notes.

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Well, they are in the they're in the same production blog.

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So they've got the same direction.

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I think it's really interesting.

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Like, you know, with, at the beginning of the 80s, we have 8

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stories that are very influenced by the script editor, Christopher

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H.

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Bidmead, and then here at the end, you've got 8 stories in these

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in these 2 seasons, which are Stoke Carponal, and they're just

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there's just the themes running through and, and, um, yeah, and

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you know, I just enjoy.

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I've been enjoying it.

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Like it's effortless and when I don't like it.

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Well, besides season 24, which talk about later.

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You know, it's not because I really think performances are

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terrible.

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It's just, it's more the script or the direction.

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Yeah, which is different from, yeah, I need to go back and listen

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to your review of season 23 again, because I'm now thinking if

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you're saying this now, does that mean I have to go back and watch

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trial over time?

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You know?

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And getting to this point, I've discovered that I think that

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Dominic Glynn.

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Yeah, yeah.

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This is just... phenomenal.

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There you go. phenomenal.

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And release, dear listener.

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It's true isn't it?

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And in these 14 episode seasons, like he was Mysterious Planet, 1st

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one, and he's doing the last one.

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Mysterious Planer is one of my all-time favourite scores and then

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Dragonfire, I think, possibly might be one of my, might be my

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favourite score of all time because it holds that story together

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and the actual transitions between when it goes from the dark side

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to the right side, that music in there is just...

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There's lots of nods to Austin Wells in this.

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Every time I listen to that score in Dragonfire, I'm blown away.

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Happiness Patrol. amazing.

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And then, well, we're now here with this and I think it's another

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winner.

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Yeah.

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And of course, every time we mention Dominic Glenn, we must

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mention his very kind permission for us to use his ultimate faux

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soundtrack to score our multi-awward-winning time incorporated

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report.

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Should we go ourselves an award for that?

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Yes, we did.

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And that's not taking anything against Mark Ayres, who I think is

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also really great.

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But then there's that other person.

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No one's mentioned the... the drum machine.

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The multi-Jenny Laird Award winning...

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Yes, yes, I will nominate him like, yeah, yeah.

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Like, the worst scores in this entire era, and possibly, there's 2

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of them that I think are the worst in the history of the show, and

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that is Battlefield and Delton Battleman.

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Oh, great, a great recap.

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And the thing is, I know there's more coming next week in the

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retrospective.

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It's just to wet your appetite.

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Just too late, listeners.

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That's the right way to do this story because everything's in

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reverse.

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We've gone right back to the beginning.

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So in fact, doing a retrospective before we start on the last

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story is actually the way this story is already. coming across.

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But I like with this story, is the fact that besides what we've

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just briefly talked about with, you know, going back to Earth and

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then you will not make fire or whatever, you also have the fact

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that in the 80s, you have the master turning up at the beginning

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of the 80s, like in that 1st season, and now here he is, this long

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running character, like, you know, from season 8 also being here

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at the end, it's sort of quite nice that it's that sort of wrap

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up.

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Even though it looks like he's, you know, been in an old people's

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home and is incontinent and has gotten bad hair dye and all.

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But he's acting really well in this.

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You know, eyes, yellow teeth.

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You know, he's a throw-in.

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He wasn't in Monroe's original script.

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She was one of the few things that she was that was required

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required her to put in, and I think it's sublime.

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And actually, I think it's only his best performance ever.

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Yeah, I do.

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Yeah, Cartmel says about her having to put the master in that the

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production team was a bit worried because, you know, we've seen

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what happens before when the master has to be inserted into

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stories.

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Like, like Mark of the Rani ware.

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It's a tree.

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Where, although, you know, he gets some fun scenes with Kate and

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some fun scenes with colonies completely superfluous.

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Andrew Cartmel has said why he thinks the master works so well in

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this story is when...

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Well, he's not a scarecrow.

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And he's not in the bloody penguin suit.

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But also, um...

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Tim Burton's got a lot to answer, doesn't he?

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But he thinks that Ronan Munro looked at the character and looked

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at the themes of her story and thought, how can I mesh these 2

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together?

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And that's what happens with the master.

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He's inextricably linked with the theme of survival and change and

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corruption.

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Can I throw another word in?

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Patriarchy.

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Oh, yes.

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Because this, to me, is actually about boy's power and girl's

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power.

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And if I was going to actually draw it just to throw the ball in

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Todd, what do you think?

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That's also a pun because, you know, they throw balls to the

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killing side.

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Do you see what I did then?

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But to me, this is direct parable, not just with the fall of the

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Berlin Wall in 1989.

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But that that fall was brought about by ladies functional business

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and pussies.

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This is actually about, I'm not the only one to say this.

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00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:20.879
This is actually a parable.

250
00:12:21.059 --> 00:12:24.240
I'm thinking back to John Molino, one of the greatest people of

251
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.779
all time who used to do mashups of visuals with terrible music.

252
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:30.360
So he did that wonderful thing with Invasion of the Dinosaurs

253
00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:35.340
we've referred to, where he put Jane Birkins Jetin over the score

254
00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:39.360
of the over the visuals of the plastocene dinosaurs and they

255
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:40.379
looked like they were necking.

256
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:41.340
It was hilarious.

257
00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:45.600
He also did it with lots of shots of ace jumping around and

258
00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.519
advertisements for for ladies' personal protection items.

259
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:56.220
And this is, to me, actually about women and women's biology and

260
00:12:56.220 --> 00:13:00.120
women's function as and the power and the and the release of women

261
00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:01.080
as a primal thing.

262
00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:06.240
And that was actually quite a big currency in the 80s in not just

263
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:10.019
in fiction, in fact, fan fiction, but in the polemics at

264
00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:12.899
universities on feminist discourse.

265
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.159
This is, to me, very much about women's bodies and women's power

266
00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:21.600
and that whole lovely woo woo natural thing about the environment

267
00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:25.139
and the person being the same thing, which was also going back to

268
00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:28.320
the Gaia references, which we were getting a lot of at the time.

269
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:32.039
The guy was a term that we were hearing as the planet and the

270
00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:34.440
ecosystem is the one thing and we are part of that.

271
00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:41.159
So this is by Ronan Monroe, of course, who wrote and wrote The

272
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:45.299
Eaters of Light, like last season in season 10.

273
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:49.620
So she's the only person to write for both iterations of the

274
00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:49.919
show.

275
00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:53.759
And both of her stories are really magical and really kind of

276
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:54.840
thematically rich.

277
00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:59.519
And this one is super, as you said, about gender.

278
00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:04.860
And so the theme survival, I think it's the 1st Doctor Who story

279
00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:09.059
where the title is an abstract noun, that is just the theme of the

280
00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:09.360
story.

281
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.000
It's the sort of thing that happens on other TV shows all the time

282
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.059
but we're used to having, you know, the horror of the terror of

283
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:18.779
the planet in space kind of titles for Doctor Who story.

284
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:20.340
So survival is really unusual.

285
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:21.000
Yeah.

286
00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.120
You know how that came about, though, too, because JNT was

287
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.440
concerned there wasn't a monster in this.

288
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:29.220
And, you know, it was actually he that was saying bring Ainley

289
00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:29.519
back in.

290
00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:32.100
We still got him for one season.

291
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.259
You know, he's still had that contract.

292
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:35.279
So we're paying him.

293
00:14:35.340 --> 00:14:36.360
So get him in here.

294
00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:37.919
But I think it was a stroke of genius.

295
00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:42.000
The women don't achieve that, like an Angie on the street, standing

296
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.379
in front of all those annuals.

297
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.960
You know, everything, including the labels on the cat food and the

298
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:49.080
annuals in the shop outside the shop where Ange is talking to

299
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:49.440
Ace.

300
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:52.919
They were all handpicked or handprinted for this production.

301
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:54.000
This is a whole...

302
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.159
Yeah, to be thematically involved.

303
00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:57.960
The cats poster on the wall.

304
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.960
The women are powerless under this patriarchy. and you've got

305
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.080
people like the sergeant until they get to the place of the cats.

306
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:06.960
Julian Stanley Holloway, son Julian Holloway.

307
00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:09.059
From up the Khyber.

308
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.159
He was in up the car.

309
00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:11.940
Yes I know.

310
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:18.419
The thing is, with the gender politics in this, it's the women who

311
00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:22.559
are right, and it's mostly the women who survive at the end of the

312
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:22.980
story.

313
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.679
You know, the master's fate is left ambiguous.

314
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:29.100
Midge is killed Sergeant Patterson is killed, and all those

315
00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:31.259
characters have been saying all the way through Mite is right.

316
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:37.500
Whereas Ace and Kara, Ace and Kara just want to run and hunt, but

317
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:41.399
hunt to live and survive rather than it's the men who come in and

318
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:46.860
corrupt this feminine power because we only really meet Kara out

319
00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:48.539
of the cheetah people.

320
00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:54.059
But there is an implication that they are feminine because cats in

321
00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:57.299
media are often seen as feminine, dogs are seen as masculine.

322
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.980
Ronan Monroe again in eaters of light has a very strong central

323
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:02.879
female role.

324
00:16:02.940 --> 00:16:05.700
You know, the leader of the young Picts.

325
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:11.220
And also, when Bill falls in with the Romans, they're completely

326
00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:12.659
fine with the fact that she's a woman.

327
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:13.139
Yeah.

328
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.340
Oh, it's like, oh, you're a woman.

329
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.700
Oh, oh, you only fancy women like, like, like Bob over there. only

330
00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:18.360
fancies men.

331
00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:19.740
How modern.

332
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:24.779
Yeah, it's like, oh, this thing, the survival of the fittest thing

333
00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:29.460
is expressed in different ways among the male characters and the

334
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:30.480
female characters.

335
00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:35.940
And we've talked in our ghost light episode about how survival of

336
00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:39.539
the fittest, which is also a theme in Ghost Light, parallels that

337
00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:43.620
kind of greed is good Thatcherst 80s thing where people saw

338
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:49.379
financial success and being able to exploit other people as

339
00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:51.779
evidence that they were the fittest.

340
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:53.159
They survive.

341
00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:57.059
The wasters go to the wall, the strong survive, you know, the weak

342
00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:00.360
die in order to enable the strong to survive.

343
00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:04.859
And the way that's played out among the men is, of course, through

344
00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:09.720
violence and hierarchy, eventually Midge, in episode 3 comes back

345
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.500
and he's basically a barrow boy, you know, those sort of working

346
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:17.819
class people who end up working in the city as sort of, you know

347
00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:21.299
stockbrokers and stuff and make a lot of money and he ends up with

348
00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:26.279
a sharp suit and the sunglasses, he steals a motorcycle, and he

349
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.359
comes in, you know, looking incredibly sort of slick and rich.

350
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:36.059
So he is representing that kind, that strand of survival, which is

351
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:40.440
hierarchical, which is violent, but it's also dominated.

352
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.819
Yeah, but it's also financial.

353
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:42.599
Do you know what I mean?

354
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:43.740
It's social.

355
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.440
Whereas the women are also violent.

356
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.180
Like Cara kills that boy.

357
00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:53.700
And that boy is weak, remember, because he doesn't want to be

358
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:57.720
violent towards the boy that he's fighting in episode one in the

359
00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.799
self-defence class.

360
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.279
So he's weak because he cares.

361
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:04.799
It's like when the doctor says you don't mind losing your friend

362
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:09.779
you know, whereas the women enjoy their own physicality and that's

363
00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:12.900
you know, even though they commit violence, the thing that they

364
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:15.299
they're exhilarated by running.

365
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.160
They're exhilarated by hunting.

366
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.640
You know, they're excited by the experience of their own

367
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.539
physicality.

368
00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:26.400
And I think that, that it's really, really amazingly gendered and

369
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:31.319
super interesting and such an argument for getting women to write

370
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.279
for the program.

371
00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:34.920
Because it's something that we've just never seen before.

372
00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:37.740
Wow.

373
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.980
Okay. something to think about, really?

374
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.640
You know, I was just going to come in and say like, you know, it's

375
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.359
interesting how all the people chosen to be transported to all

376
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:52.079
these men 25 to 35 and they all end up dying.

377
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.000
Even Midge.

378
00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:57.839
And we should reference the grooming that Midge undergoes under

379
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:02.160
the master's hand to get to where he, but all the old biddies, like

380
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.700
you know, the woman tapping its sylvester and get shoe cats, like

381
00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:06.539
they don't get taken.

382
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.180
They're all, you know, just behind their neck.

383
00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:12.059
Todd's looking at us when he says...

384
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.099
But I mean, no, I was thinking about this because like when I was

385
00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:17.099
watching Curse of Fenwick, I felt that Fenwick was turning all the

386
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:21.059
women into hemovores, but a lot of the men who they encountered

387
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:22.140
got killed.

388
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.680
Like, so I was just thinking about that like in terms of those

389
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:26.279
sort of things.

390
00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:30.299
When I was watching this for the live feet, when I was watching it

391
00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:33.839
with James, the very 1st guy who gets taken, the guy who's washing

392
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.400
the car and calling out to his mum, Kathleen Bidmead, Kathleen

393
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:38.940
Bidmead.

394
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.240
Yes.

395
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.099
Chris Bid meets mum.

396
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.319
James just said something lines off.

397
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.359
And of course, the 1st guy who gets killed is gay.

398
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.380
I'm like, what do you mean?

399
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.759
He said, it's 1989.

400
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.819
He's a man about 30.

401
00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:52.440
He lives with his mum.

402
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:53.640
He's out washing the car.

403
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.019
He's got a pink sponge.

404
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.079
You've got a pink sponge. always a giveaway.

405
00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:01.680
And, you know, it's we are still in an era of coding.

406
00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:05.220
When you see Midge's death, if I'm, you know, precursing that one

407
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:07.500
yeah, you know, with that fabulous motorcycle thing.

408
00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:10.019
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, where it appears that the doctor

409
00:20:10.019 --> 00:20:11.400
just magics himself away.

410
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:12.779
I really like that bit, actually.

411
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.539
I mean, you know, and he's done his finger doorbell on everybody

412
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:16.859
else this season.

413
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.500
But Mitch doesn't appear to die so much of the injuries.

414
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:21.000
I think he's dying of a broken heart.

415
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.039
Yes, the masters dropped him.

416
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:27.359
Yeah, yeah, he has failed and the master tells him to die. really

417
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.960
sinister.

418
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:30.180
You're too old for me now, love.

419
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.160
Well, you know what?

420
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:37.259
In the making of Will Barton, who played Midge, does say that...

421
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.680
But between takes out on, out on the common, they were, he was

422
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.720
sitting in the car with Anthony Anley listening to the cricket

423
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.660
because, of course, Anthony Anley was all about cricket.

424
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.900
And Sylvester's like, you know, you didn't really get to know

425
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:52.140
Anthony Ainley and he was just as scary off cameras.

426
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:52.980
Yes, he was.

427
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:55.559
Yeah, that was mostly the wig, though, per course, to Peter

428
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:56.099
Davidson.

429
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.259
But he really didn't connect with people.

430
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.440
Yeah, but you cut to Sophie Aldred and she says, yeah, you didn't

431
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:01.980
connect with people.

432
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:05.220
But he said to me, Sophie, you're my friend, which I always

433
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.619
thought was, oh, and I think it's because I was into cricket and

434
00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:10.259
we'd set up the rehearsal rooms with stumps at either end at

435
00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:13.319
lunchtime and we play, and you know, I didn't realise, but I

436
00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:14.700
became Anthony's friend through that.

437
00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:18.059
And of course, Anthony, Sylvester, and Sophie all share the same

438
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:18.779
birthday.

439
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.720
And it happened during production.

440
00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:24.000
I don't want astrology, to be true.

441
00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:25.920
Stop it.

442
00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:30.720
But, you know, of course, like, I think Ainley was 10 years older

443
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:35.160
than Silv, and Sophie was 20 years younger and still is, or about

444
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.440
that, possibly less, because I think...

445
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.880
It's hard to tell with the upper middle class.

446
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.759
Yeah, no, they don't age the same way there is.

447
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:42.599
Last chance to say.

448
00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:43.319
Oh, no.

449
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:44.579
There's a few more.

450
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.880
Sophie does admit in the making off of this.

451
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:53.339
I think a should have been more street as she puts it, but the BBC

452
00:21:53.339 --> 00:21:55.440
wouldn't have it, much like the original title.

453
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:56.579
Or Dodo.

454
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.099
Yeah, well, that's just Dodo.

455
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:00.119
Nothing to do with the accent.

456
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.619
No, you can't do it with that accent.

457
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.640
Oh, okay, I'll do it like this.

458
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:03.779
No, no, no, you don't understand.

459
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.740
You.

460
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.819
You're gone, love.

461
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:09.839
But the original title of the story was, of course, Cat Flap.

462
00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:12.059
Richard.

463
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:19.140
It's just a, well, apparently this week, dear listener, segueing

464
00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:20.640
but not very, not at all.

465
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:24.240
A black hole has been seen to actually emit matter for the very

466
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:24.720
1st time.

467
00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:27.779
So no, it's not something I need to fall into, right?

468
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.759
Was that Erica Betts?

469
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:30.539
No, NASA.

470
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.680
Same difference though, just as much of a void.

471
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:35.819
But yeah, yeah, it turns out.

472
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:40.079
Well, Andrew Cartmell got the script for Cat Flap and thought, we

473
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:41.039
can't get Kenneth Williams.

474
00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:44.460
But Julian Holloway was in...

475
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.779
So he gets to the script for Cat Flap and he'd been trying to get

476
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:49.920
Ronan Monroe for ages.

477
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.759
She's already done 4 productions for the BBC, 4 plays.

478
00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:57.059
But she was still on the list of young emerging talents being a

479
00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:57.539
lady person.

480
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.960
So she was up for the grant thing and that she would, therefore

481
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:05.640
she was part of Carmel's Catch Net because he was only using

482
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.759
writers from that little pool that they had and that they were

483
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:10.619
identified and he was very keen to use her.

484
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.039
I'm really glad he did Yeah, well, so am I, because he got the

485
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.039
script and saw the title Cat Flap and thought, oh, okay, she still

486
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.619
thinks Doctor Who is just for kids.

487
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:21.900
She's not taking it seriously, but as he read it, he suddenly

488
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:24.839
realised the meaning of the title cat flap is, it can let your cat

489
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:26.579
out, but it can let things in.

490
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.259
And that was her concept.

491
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.500
The reason they didn't go with it is actually related.

492
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:32.220
It's rude.

493
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:36.000
But it's also related to the happiness patrol.

494
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.019
Because during season 25, JNT was still giving information to

495
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:41.940
fandom, like, these are the story titles coming up.

496
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:47.220
And when there's a story called the Happiness Patrol, fans were

497
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:48.539
outraged.

498
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.420
No, you're turning it into a joke, how dare you, blah, blah.

499
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.279
So he said to Carmel, look quite beyond any innuendo, I like the

500
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:01.019
title, I like the idea, but the fans will backlash against it, and

501
00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:03.539
that'll create negative press.

502
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.079
So let's go with the title that's ambiguous, but sums up the tone

503
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:08.460
and that's where survival comes in.

504
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.440
They could have called it cat flap of death.

505
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.019
Oh yeah, that's the thing.

506
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.539
Out of death at the end, the fans are fine.

507
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.700
Cake of death.

508
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.559
Okay, Gordef.

509
00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:24.000
Cat flap of fear would have actually...

510
00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:24.960
Fear is awesome.

511
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:28.859
And really, and far more closer to the narrative, because I think

512
00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:31.859
we're actually all fearing what the lady's secret powers are.

513
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:36.240
It's interesting how in, um, her story for series 10.

514
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.839
She also has that portal where things can come out, can go back in

515
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:40.140
as well.

516
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.440
I mean, this is like Narnia, isn't it?

517
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:46.799
I mean, this is that sort of children's literature thing. where

518
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:52.259
there's a magical world that you get transported to and it is

519
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:53.220
essentially magic.

520
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.880
You know, the idea that cats are planet hopping around the place

521
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.720
taking people home to another planet to feed, you know, their

522
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.720
cheetah masters, all of that sort of stuff is nonsense.

523
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.500
And so is the planet's breaking up because it's a metaphor for the

524
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:09.240
cheetahs fighting and stuff.

525
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:11.099
You know, that's how magic works.

526
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.220
The other things that we happen to have been doing.

527
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.299
Well, yeah, and maybe Cold War, you know, the idea that human

528
00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:22.019
conflict could destroy the world is, you know, pretty much a

529
00:25:22.019 --> 00:25:22.380
given.

530
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.640
But the whole thing works the way that magic works.

531
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:31.920
So they're transported to another planet to another world where

532
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.740
there are dressed up animals and we talked about that in

533
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:36.299
connection with ghost light.

534
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:39.000
We haven't mentioned hail and pace yet, have we?

535
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:39.359
No.

536
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:39.720
No.

537
00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:43.740
But the idea that, you know, that it's a magical world with

538
00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:44.279
dressed animals.

539
00:25:44.339 --> 00:25:48.539
I think it's, it's, I love that logic for Doctor Who, and it's

540
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:50.220
something that, you know, the show.

541
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:52.079
They were very pettable though, weren't they?

542
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:55.079
It does actually look like a Furby convention, doesn't it?

543
00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:56.819
I actually quite like them.

544
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.779
There's one that we used to call pumpkin heads. who has a little

545
00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:04.980
roundhead who I think he's the one he's the one who's eating like

546
00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:06.660
eating some carcass.

547
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.440
Some lovingly constructed horse carcass.

548
00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:11.579
I am at your command.

549
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:12.599
Oh, no, a cheetah.

550
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:13.019
Sorry.

551
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.599
Pumpkin head.

552
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:16.980
Oh, crack me up.

553
00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:20.339
Speaking of sort of pumpkin heady type things.

554
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:24.420
There is the animatronic cat. which I'm sure.

555
00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:28.799
Well, I think it's pretty ropey, but for 1989.

556
00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:30.900
I actually thought it was pretty good at the time.

557
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.720
It's little motors inside it.

558
00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:35.339
Perhaps at the time.

559
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:36.839
Now I look at it and I just laugh.

560
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:39.420
I think it keep thinking of Sabrina, the teenage witch, and that's

561
00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:40.319
7 years later.

562
00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:45.359
The thing I like about it is that it gets to turn to the camera

563
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.920
and its mouth opens and it bears its fangs and then Dominic Glynn

564
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:51.180
adds a sound to it.

565
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:54.720
That looks fabulous and you could never have achieved that with a

566
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.259
real cat.

567
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:56.700
It doesn't look real for a second.

568
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.339
Yeah, but just the fact that it turns to camera and looks

569
00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:01.079
terrifying is really good.

570
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:05.400
There's one shot later where they achieve a close-up of a kitling

571
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.700
before it transports someone with a real cat and that's much less

572
00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:10.259
effective, I think.

573
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:13.380
Yeah, pretty much when they when Alan Waring went down to the

574
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:15.599
workshop to see the cat, he's like, right, we need to get a real

575
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:16.259
cat as well.

576
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.740
And there is on the DVD.

577
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.039
There are some like, not exactly outtakes, not bloopers, but

578
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:23.759
setting up for a shot.

579
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:27.119
The shot where the master's walking into the youth centre. has got

580
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.140
the cat over his shoulder.

581
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.160
And so you get Alan Waring saying to the cat's handler, okay, we'd

582
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:33.599
like the cat's face to be about here.

583
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:36.720
So she puts it up on Anthony Ainley and he sort of puts his hand

584
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.000
around it and she says to him, yeah, just put your, just put your

585
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.559
hand behind their head, but her head there.

586
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:41.700
Don't press too hard.

587
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.339
Oh, she's a difficult bugger.

588
00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:45.359
Don't you walk?

589
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:48.180
The cat or the woman?

590
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.519
The woman the woman walks off, half to say, oh, it's a difficult

591
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:50.880
bugger.

592
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.039
Was she referring to only?

593
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:56.279
Is that recorded?

594
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.619
She would have said she's a different one.

595
00:27:58.680 --> 00:27:59.759
She was referring to it.

596
00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:00.599
Oh, get her.

597
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:07.680
I will say, though, as as you know, Richard, Rod, my partner, is a

598
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:08.579
huge fan of cats.

599
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.440
He has had many cats over the years.

600
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:14.339
He hates the animatronic cat in this, but not for the reasons you

601
00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:14.640
might think.

602
00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:18.480
He has no problem with the special effects because he's like, you

603
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:19.200
know, it's Doctor Who.

604
00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:19.980
They did the best they could.

605
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.359
Now what he has a problem with is the villainising of black cats.

606
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.859
Because he has owned many black cats.

607
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:29.940
We hitting all our memes today.

608
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.779
He's owned many black cats and they're lovely, but he also knows

609
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:37.079
they sort of end up in shelters and people don't take them because

610
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:39.720
of things like this and Salem's lot.

611
00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:42.720
So the thing is, as soon as that happened in episode one, I don't

612
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.940
think he's seen this one before because he gave up on Sylvan

613
00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:46.440
Sophie the 1st time around.

614
00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:53.039
But 5 minutes into episode one, he just tends to up and he never

615
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.079
he never relaxed throughout the rest of the story.

616
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:56.039
It was just 3 out of 10.

617
00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:00.720
So I don't, yeah, I don't think he was in a frame of mind to watch

618
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.000
the rest of the story because he's just like, nah, nah, you're

619
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:03.900
making fun of a black cat.

620
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:04.319
I'm out.

621
00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:06.299
It's an interesting take.

622
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:10.380
I think a lot of viewers had the same reaction at the time as well

623
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:13.619
because one of those things that you've actually got to be either

624
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:18.119
a student in the 80s or just have friends who are just like the

625
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.000
people in the story or the people around you watching it, who are

626
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.220
fans to get it because it's all metaphor.

627
00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:23.819
Yeah.

628
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:28.980
And in a way that when we look back on the last 3 seasons, maybe

629
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:32.039
every single story was, even the ones we didn't identify as such

630
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:32.759
starting off.

631
00:29:32.819 --> 00:29:35.759
We've already covered time in the Rani as being a very strong

632
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:36.119
one.

633
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:42.000
Well, I think that this one is much, much more metaphorical than

634
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.259
anything that we've done before.

635
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:44.160
Very much so.

636
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.319
It's all allegory, isn't it?

637
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:50.039
Yeah, and that just thematic richness that we've identified.

638
00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:53.700
And I think, you know, it's a strong contender for a real

639
00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:57.599
transition into where the show is when it comes back.

640
00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:00.119
Like, I think that this is...

641
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:01.140
Segway is really nice.

642
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:04.019
Yeah, anyway, just stylistically, it really falls into a pattern.

643
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:07.680
Well, that it's not about an alien invasion, particularly or

644
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.160
anything like that, that it is about a concept and an idea.

645
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.700
It's not a science fiction story in any sort of real sense.

646
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.200
And it features real people, like living on a council estate.

647
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:24.240
We go up to, you know, midges flat and there's our 1st tiny little

648
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.079
girl.

649
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:28.079
Who's later in, what is it, Emmerdale?

650
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:31.980
Emmerdale, as the as the sex symbol, bitch, vixen.

651
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:34.319
That makes me feel really old.

652
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:40.019
She's well known for doing, you know, calendars with farm animals

653
00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:40.980
but not in a nice way.

654
00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.980
Yes, we do need to talk about that.

655
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.740
Well, there's some reality, but there's also a character called

656
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:49.140
Fly, who's apparently married Darth Bay Duck.

657
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.700
Do remember that moment?

658
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:51.720
Brain dead plumber.

659
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:53.039
Yeah, he's a brain dead plumber.

660
00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:55.019
I think Padme must have just been getting stroppy.

661
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:55.920
You sort of bugger off.

662
00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.079
She's probably off with the cheetah chatty folk right now.

663
00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:00.480
Sand is so coarse.

664
00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.839
It's another metaphor.

665
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:04.619
You ask my cat.

666
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.299
My pussy.

667
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.099
She'll only use paper products.

668
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:13.380
Besides the impossible escape from the motorbike explosion, which

669
00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:16.500
is impossible, and you can say it lands on some sofas.

670
00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:18.420
Yeah, like how far away?

671
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.180
Like, 1000 metres away?

672
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:24.900
He teleports himself. so beautiful, magic. flies, it's cannon.

673
00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:26.039
Yeah, city of death.

674
00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:26.940
He's done it in Paris.

675
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.920
You know the original scene, don't you, Todd?

676
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:29.519
What?

677
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:31.259
They were going to kick Midge to death.

678
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:33.839
No, that's money.

679
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:35.640
That's in Monroe's original squid.

680
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:39.240
No, they're talking to him. is much more effective.

681
00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:44.579
Besides that motorbike scene, which I just roll my eyes at, I have

682
00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:48.119
a problem with Patterson and his gang of thugs or whatever you

683
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:48.779
want to call them.

684
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:51.839
I just find a lot of those sequences really, I find embarrassing.

685
00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:53.640
You're a bit grain chill, aren't they?

686
00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:58.440
And I guess it's just at the time being at the end of high school

687
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:02.279
and we had Cadet Corps and we had like sergeant people like that

688
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:07.980
and I just kind of, like, no, no, every scene where he's going off

689
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.380
and they're all there and I just cringe through it.

690
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:10.920
I just do.

691
00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:14.460
I just don't, dialogue or whatever it is, just doesn't resonate

692
00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:14.759
with me.

693
00:32:14.819 --> 00:32:18.660
And then you've got this gang, one of who looks like he's like the

694
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:23.519
lead singer from that band wearing his hat backwards, EMF or

695
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:24.539
something, you know, unbelievable.

696
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.000
Like, it's just unbelievable.

697
00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:30.240
Like I just go, yeah, I just, you know, that's the one thing that

698
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:31.619
I just kind of go, well, that's so nice.

699
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:36.059
There's a slight sort of casting for prettiness that's coming in

700
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:37.079
in that gang.

701
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:40.740
Yeah, and and the thing is, you look at all of them and they are

702
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:43.799
all physically fit, you know, but...

703
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:48.059
You know, I don't...

704
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.420
If there was any more wind on that field, they'd all just blow

705
00:32:51.420 --> 00:32:51.779
away.

706
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:56.039
There's there's no there's no muscle. don't do them And it's kind

707
00:32:56.039 --> 00:33:00.000
of like, but they seem to be scripted to be, if you like, a

708
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.680
physical match for the cheetahs.

709
00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:05.220
You know, they are the analogue for the cheaters in our world.

710
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.779
And even the scene where they're advancing on Ace, and Sophie's

711
00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:11.819
giving it her all, like, you know, somebody help me.

712
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:16.079
She's selling it and then you cut back to bloody pipe cleaner

713
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.339
patrol coming towards you.

714
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:20.519
I clean patrol.

715
00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:25.079
And, you know, I'm not, I don't want to be insulting to anyone who

716
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:26.400
is fit in that way.

717
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:26.880
That's fine.

718
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:29.039
It's just, it doesn't quite match the intent.

719
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:36.119
Something I love, though, is this is kind of the unexpected end of

720
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.140
a loose trilogy of stories, exploring ace's growth.

721
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.960
So in the curse of Fenrick, You know, I'm not a little girl

722
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:43.380
anymore.

723
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.579
And then Ghostlight is about her confronting fears of her past.

724
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:53.279
And this kind of is about where she might go in the future because

725
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:59.579
the whole her whole through line in this is if she is violent.

726
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:03.480
That will be her life forever and she will always be violent and

727
00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:04.259
she will lose herself.

728
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.779
And the thing is, we have seen her character.

729
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:08.099
She likes fire.

730
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:10.800
She likes explosions in the original script for this.

731
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:14.280
She puts Kara's body on a funeral pyre and burns it, and that was

732
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.519
Ronan Monroe saying, hey, in your character outline, she likes Big

733
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:18.000
Bangs.

734
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:18.960
She likes fire.

735
00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:20.340
I know she's burnt down a house.

736
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.519
And that was that was changed because they didn't want.

737
00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:29.280
I suppose they didn't want to encourage emulation of that.

738
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.260
You know, kids playing fireable.

739
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:31.739
Exactly.

740
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:37.860
But it's interesting that over the course of this season, Ace has

741
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:41.340
become less violent than she was in season 25.

742
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:45.480
In Battlefield, of course, you know, she gets excited about

743
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.739
blowing up a spaceship.

744
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.679
She blows up a wall in Fenwrick, but that's just so they can get

745
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.039
through.

746
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.500
And when she distracts a guard in Fenrick.

747
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:54.599
It's not about going up and clobbering him from behind.

748
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.360
It's about drawing him away and flirting with him and being

749
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.820
mysterious and, you know, as she says, I'm not a little girl.

750
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:03.719
In ghost light, she actually implores control.

751
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:05.099
No, don't burn the house down.

752
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.619
That's what I did and that was a mistake.

753
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.000
But then she says I would have blown it up.

754
00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:10.260
So there's still that tension there.

755
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:11.159
She could go either way.

756
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:16.139
Well, I mean, she enjoys the influence of being a cheater. like

757
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:17.579
you know, she loves that.

758
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:19.739
It's exhilarating for her.

759
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.239
But that thing you say about if she embraces violence, that'll be

760
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:24.960
her destiny.

761
00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:27.900
Like there's a real kind of social commentary in that.

762
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:29.340
It's those boys.

763
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:33.179
I mean, Patterson is teaching them that the way to survive is

764
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:33.960
through violence.

765
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:37.320
Yeah, yeah, that's how that's how you survive.

766
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.480
That's the whole purpose of that self-defence class.

767
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:42.960
Yeah, and the boy at the beginning who refuses to, if you like

768
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:47.099
deliver the killing blow to his opponent, he's saying, well, I've

769
00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:47.760
already beaten him.

770
00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:48.539
He's subdued.

771
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:50.519
Why do I need to inflict more pain?

772
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:54.719
And in fact, he does get killed by the cheater and partly because

773
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.440
of that, but also partly because he warns Ace about the cheetah.

774
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:02.760
So because he cares for other people, he doesn't survive.

775
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:06.840
You know, it's the joke that Halen Pace tell in the supermarket

776
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:11.039
about outrunning the lion and the doctor says, well, that works

777
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.579
really well, provided you don't mind losing your friend.

778
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

779
00:36:16.019 --> 00:36:18.840
And so there's a tension between this survival of the fittest

780
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:21.599
thing and altruism or friendship.

781
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:25.320
I like hail and pace in this.

782
00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:28.980
I think they're really appropriately placed.

783
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:32.820
It's really, it's really opposite to the giant and perfect casting

784
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:33.719
for perfect timing.

785
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:37.019
The odd thing, they were a double act of 2 straight men.

786
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:41.099
So they're really antithetical to all of the other stuff that's

787
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:43.980
happening in this, but they're perfect for that side of it because

788
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:46.019
this is all about dualities and opposites.

789
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.920
It might have been distracting stunt casting at the time, but

790
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:55.260
given that they've completely fallen out of our consciousness and

791
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:57.780
disappeared, you know, from the record.

792
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.340
It actually doesn't matter.

793
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:00.960
And they do work quite well together.

794
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:03.780
I think that scene with Sylvester and them is terrific.

795
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.079
It could have equally been done with Victoria Wood.

796
00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:10.800
And, I was going to say, her best mate, Julie.

797
00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:14.099
Julie Walters, because that and that would have been really

798
00:37:14.099 --> 00:37:16.079
fabulous, but I think we're probably a bit busy.

799
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:19.320
I kind of like the fact that they're kind of tired, middle-aged

800
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:19.800
men.

801
00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:24.599
And they therefore reflect the pair of all of...

802
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:26.039
Sylvester shopping.

803
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.019
I do too.

804
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:33.360
I think with the doctor shopping, you know, doctor ever gone

805
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:34.019
shopping?

806
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.179
Yeah, he ever has. silly and wonderful.

807
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.940
It's that's leading into the new series.

808
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.000
It's showing it's in the last Doctor Who story ever.

809
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:45.659
This suburban environment where we've never seen the doctor

810
00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:46.980
operate at all before.

811
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:50.820
I think a lot of people complain about Sylvester in episode one

812
00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:54.659
spooning out the cat food onto the street and hiding in that

813
00:37:54.659 --> 00:37:56.219
woman's front garden.

814
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.480
That's hilarious.

815
00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:58.440
Go, wait, dog.

816
00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:02.699
And she's going, tap, that old bitty keeps going. think it's

817
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:03.179
hilarious.

818
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:06.780
Well, I think the dog is really funny, the wrong cat, you know, and

819
00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:11.639
Sophie walking away. and then just looking at him with just out of

820
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:13.920
contempt and shaking her head at how stupid he is.

821
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.360
I've lived lived that.

822
00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:18.780
I spent 4 days out at Rudy Hill and Mount Drewitt hunting for my

823
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:21.960
very own lost pussy, which I'm very happy to say he's now been

824
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:25.139
returned to us, as it turns out, through the power of visionary

825
00:38:25.139 --> 00:38:28.679
prayer. seriously. lovely Vicky and her name is Vicky Deary.

826
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.440
Oh, brilliant. saw the posters and prayed and said I was

827
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:31.860
compelled.

828
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:35.699
I had to go and she found her in exactly where she said the pic.

829
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.860
Now, everyone else thinks, of course, she had an erratic for 4

830
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:38.099
days.

831
00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:40.679
But the rest of us.

832
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:41.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

833
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:44.039
So no, this is very powerful story right now.

834
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:46.139
So many of us.

835
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:50.039
You know, though, really, there's a lot of Hammer horror in this

836
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:50.340
as well.

837
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.980
Oh, yeah, I mean, you know, you've got...

838
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:55.500
They just don't happen to be lesbian vampires, but apart from

839
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:58.800
anything else, what did one lesbian vampire say to another lesbian

840
00:38:58.800 --> 00:38:59.460
vampire online?

841
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:00.840
I don't know.

842
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.760
I mean, face pics or an ain't happening.

843
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:03.719
They never met.

844
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.139
Well, I'm very glad I don't have to use the girl from Epanema on

845
00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:11.219
that bit because I don't get it.

846
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:14.940
Is that part of the joke as well?

847
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.079
I didn't hear that version.

848
00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:21.179
For me, the hail and pace bit was fascinating because at the time

849
00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:25.559
this went out and also still a few years later, they had, they

850
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:29.039
were big news and they had a weekly sketch comedy show, which no

851
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:30.239
one watched that we know.

852
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:33.059
My parents watched it and I was allowed to stay up and watch it.

853
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:34.559
That's the thing with my folks.

854
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:37.679
So were happy with me watching, if you like, adult content or

855
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:38.280
adult humour.

856
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.860
So long as they were there to explain anything.

857
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:42.780
And there were scientists.

858
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.059
So if it was about sex, I got a vivid explanation.

859
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.059
With Hale and Pace, it was like Doctor Who had suddenly stepped

860
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:52.619
into another TV show.

861
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:56.579
It was like Doctor Who had stepped into a hail and pace sketch

862
00:39:56.579 --> 00:39:57.840
which I absolutely loved.

863
00:39:57.900 --> 00:39:59.519
More of that next season.

864
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:02.880
Oh, wait, yes.

865
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:05.760
No, we do have another season after this now. it's not like the

866
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:09.059
90s And for that reason I always accepted it.

867
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:12.119
Like, you know, if they had been sort of main characters

868
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.719
throughout, I think that wouldn't have worked because I've never

869
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:17.280
seen them in dramatic roles.

870
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:21.659
I think Gareth Hale has done some dramatic work since, but I've

871
00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:22.260
never seen any of that.

872
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.619
But as sort of a single scene and then delivering the punchline

873
00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:28.860
where the doctor walks out without paying and it's like, have you

874
00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:29.400
forgot something?

875
00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:29.880
Money.

876
00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:30.960
No, it's not that.

877
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:32.760
And he just shakes his head and walks off.

878
00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:36.780
I actually love the bit of that scene where the camera is the

879
00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:42.480
Kitling's viewpoint. looking from inside the shelf at Sylvester

880
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:45.900
and he points to it and then the camera rushes out at him and then

881
00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:46.739
it's the cat.

882
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.579
And I think there's some incredible, incredible direction in

883
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:50.820
this.

884
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:58.320
And one of my standout things that they do is when the Kitling

885
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:00.659
sees someone just before transporting them.

886
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:07.440
The camera goes up on the crane, and it's initially just a neutral

887
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.219
viewpoint.

888
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:12.659
But by the time it reaches the top of the crane, it's become the

889
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:17.579
point of view shot of a cheater person during the course. of the

890
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:18.179
one shot.

891
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:23.579
And the person, you know, sees it and regards the camera and runs

892
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:23.880
off.

893
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.639
So it's such an incredible choice.

894
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:31.440
And then when there's that flash, we never stay on the same camera

895
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.639
shot, like the flash when someone disappears coincides with a

896
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:37.920
complete change of perspective from the point of view of the

897
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.219
camera.

898
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.619
Because the perspective character is now gone.

899
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:42.000
Yeah, it's really clever.

900
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:44.460
Yeah, I like that direction.

901
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:48.119
Alan Waring was chosen for this specifically because he saved

902
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:49.500
Greater Show in the Galaxy.

903
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:50.280
Yeah.

904
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:54.000
But with Greater Show in the Galaxy, he felt that with the

905
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.039
problems, he might be blamed for that.

906
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:59.820
So when he was invited back, he was delighted and immediately

907
00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:01.920
accepted it because he's like, you know, I liked working on it, but

908
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.280
we didn't do everything I wanted and I thought, well, you know

909
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:06.360
that's it for Doctor Who.

910
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:07.500
For me, for Doctor Who.

911
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:11.579
And then he's asked back to do 50% more, 2 stories.

912
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.739
Can you do basically our biggie?

913
00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:16.440
And it's actually because the production team were really happy

914
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:21.059
with his work because not only did he make a story in very

915
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:23.699
difficult circumstances, but it also looked great.

916
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.400
Yeah, he's, I think he's the best director.

917
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:28.260
I think I've said this before of this era.

918
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:32.699
I think of the 80s, the 3 standout directors are, you know, him

919
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:33.780
Graham Harper.

920
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:37.199
And I've still got a soft spot for love at Bigford.

921
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:38.219
Oh yes, of course.

922
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:38.820
Yeah.

923
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:40.019
Love and love it.

924
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.599
Bigford just bends his arm back till it breaks off, doesn't he?

925
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:48.179
So ratings. 5000000 for the 1st episode and 89th for the week.

926
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:51.539
That's the highest rating of the season and placing of the season

927
00:42:51.539 --> 00:42:52.019
as well.

928
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.500
And then 4.8 and then 5000000 and this is the only story that hits

929
00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:56.699
5000000 this season.

930
00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:01.980
It's, At least it goes out like with half decent rating.

931
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.059
Yeah, yeah, you know.

932
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:07.019
I mean, last year, the lowest rating was 4.8, you know, so, but

933
00:43:07.019 --> 00:43:08.880
here it's sort of like at the top of the scale.

934
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.340
And, and, and so...

935
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:15.360
But it was also being seen and not getting any publicity, but

936
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.820
still known and talked about, and the hail and post thing

937
00:43:17.820 --> 00:43:18.360
certainly helped.

938
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:23.579
But at the time, we were not there yet, but it wasn't so much that

939
00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:24.599
the BBC wanted to kill it.

940
00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:28.079
It was what was going on within the BBC dying itself as to what it

941
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.679
had always been.

942
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:33.659
It was still pulling in over twice in the revenue in both

943
00:43:33.659 --> 00:43:36.360
merchandising and overseas sales than it cost to make.

944
00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:40.440
So it wasn't actually, we've always talked about it as being Mile

945
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.780
Michael Grade's death wish to see this gone.

946
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:44.039
Well, Michael Grade's gone.

947
00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:45.719
So we've got John Burt.

948
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:50.940
It's like a bird with expectorance, but who had very strong ideas

949
00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:54.300
about the BBC being all about news and everything else being made

950
00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:57.539
outside because that's what Tory Britton wanted to do.

951
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:58.800
Everything was made out of house.

952
00:43:58.860 --> 00:44:01.559
So, of course, it was now Doctor Who was up for grabs, and we'll

953
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:03.360
get onto that because there was a lot going on.

954
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:06.300
But it wasn't, it wasn't seen as the death of the show.

955
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:07.019
They just...

956
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:08.940
I don't think they knew what to do with it.

957
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:11.820
No, they were determined that they wanted someone else to pick up

958
00:44:11.820 --> 00:44:14.039
all the tabs and they would just bring the money in themselves

959
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.400
which is a very neo Conway of seeing art.

960
00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:19.739
Funny what happens to art when you do that though.

961
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:25.139
Yeah, Peter Cregin, who was head of series and serials at the

962
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:25.320
time.

963
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:28.980
He's the one who made the final decision, but it was always his

964
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:32.880
perspective that it would come back in 1992 or 1993 once they'd

965
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:35.219
found a new producer and a new script editor.

966
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:40.139
And we might remember that back around Trial of a Timelord, I said

967
00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:44.519
that Terence Dudley was willing to take over the Reigns as

968
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:44.880
producer.

969
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.340
Thank God, that didn't happen.

970
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:50.099
So was Terry Nation, for God's sake.

971
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:53.460
He set up his own little company to try and do it with Jerry Davis

972
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:54.119
you imagine?

973
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:57.059
There was even talk of Verity Lambert's production.

974
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:57.840
Yeah, cinema verity.

975
00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:00.900
Cinema verity was the only one being taken for as real and it's

976
00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:03.780
because she's not, she wasn't in any of the publicity at the time

977
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:06.239
talking about it because there were background deals going on with

978
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.940
her to bring Pertwee back. aren't all of those?

979
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.599
I thought all of those discussions like with those deterioration

980
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:15.539
all of them happened like 1990, 91.

981
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:16.800
I thought that's when it was all happening.

982
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:18.059
CBS as well.

983
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:19.320
We were the obvious contender.

984
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:22.079
There's never a cancellation announcement, is there?

985
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:22.619
No, no.

986
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:23.159
Yeah, yeah.

987
00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:25.019
We were just waiting for it to come back.

988
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:26.760
The agony of it, do you remember?

989
00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:29.400
Every single month you go out and buy Doctor Who Monthly.

990
00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:29.940
Where is he there?

991
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:30.420
Is he there?

992
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.460
Didn't Sylvester sign a contract for another season?

993
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:33.599
Yes, yes, he did.

994
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:36.179
So midway through the 2nd season because I think he'd signed a

995
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:40.320
contract for 2 because the BBC were wary of another Colin Baker

996
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:42.360
situation where they wanted to get rid of the actor.

997
00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:43.199
Yes.

998
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:46.320
No offence, Silv, but...

999
00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:47.219
No, exactly.

1000
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:49.800
And the thing is, Silv was perfectly happy to only sign 2 years

1001
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:53.400
because JNT came up to and said, we'd like you to do a 3rd year

1002
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:57.360
and Silv says, well, you know, Peter and Patrick both said to me 3

1003
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:57.659
years.

1004
00:45:57.659 --> 00:46:01.860
And John said, But we'd like you to do a 3rd year and a 4th year

1005
00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:04.920
and if you don't do a 4th year, the show will just end with this

1006
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:05.159
season.

1007
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:09.179
And Silv just kind of went, well, I can't be the one who is

1008
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:10.019
responsible for that.

1009
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.500
But Silv also then said, right, let's talk about where this

1010
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:16.739
character is going and why we get a bit more arcing this season is

1011
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:20.579
because they were leading into stuff next season, which Cartmel

1012
00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:24.239
and Ben Aronovich both say, look, we had written 4 scenes that we

1013
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.559
wanted to put in episodes.

1014
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.980
In no way did we have. storylines or breakdowns.

1015
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.380
Here are writers we were thinking about, et cetera, et cetera.

1016
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.960
But yeah, so Silv had signed up for a 4th year.

1017
00:46:34.019 --> 00:46:38.880
I don't think it was a um, a pay or play contract, so he didn't

1018
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.199
get paid for the following season.

1019
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:44.280
Sophie hadn't signed on, but it was understood she would only do

1020
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.260
half of the next year and then be written out.

1021
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.420
However, at this point, unlike with trial, when Terrence Dudley

1022
00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:56.760
was sounded out as being producer, John Nathan Turner was actually

1023
00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:58.079
offered it on the job at last.

1024
00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:00.599
So, you know, he's been trying to leave for 5 years and the BBC

1025
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:02.219
keeps saying to him, no, you're still on doctor.

1026
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:03.179
We're not offering you anything else.

1027
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:05.940
It was a job in the BBC canteen to be fair.

1028
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.380
It was pretty.

1029
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:07.860
What was it?

1030
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:10.440
It was, it was producing Bergerac.

1031
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:11.280
Wow.

1032
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:13.440
Which was a big show.

1033
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:14.099
Yeah, exactly.

1034
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.579
And I think, you know, in that sense, the BBC did actually

1035
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:18.960
acknowledge, you know what?

1036
00:47:19.019 --> 00:47:23.039
We've been trying to kill this show for 5 years, but this but this

1037
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:24.360
guy has kept it afloat.

1038
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:25.559
He can do stuff.

1039
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:29.699
And the thing is, John Nathan Turner being John Nathan Turner.

1040
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.219
His reaction was, ah, Bergerac.

1041
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:33.960
Set in Jersey with John Nettles.

1042
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:36.300
Don't particularly like John Nettles.

1043
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:37.920
So, and I don't particularly like Jersey.

1044
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:43.500
So I'll do it if we can get rid of John Nagels and move it out of

1045
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:43.980
Jersey.

1046
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:48.059
He came back and said that to Andrew Carp, they're like, oh, they

1047
00:47:48.059 --> 00:47:49.739
offered me this, but I'm staying on Doctor Who.

1048
00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:52.559
And Andrew Cumpton was like years later he said to me, probably

1049
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:54.900
should have gone to Jersey and Andrew's like, yes, you should have

1050
00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:56.280
because you would have taken me with you.

1051
00:47:57.059 --> 00:48:02.880
Because Cartmel was kind of sounding out either Colin Brake, who

1052
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:06.000
went on to write Doctor Who novels or Ben Aronovich as his

1053
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:06.900
possible successor.

1054
00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:10.739
Ben Aronovich would never have got the script.

1055
00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:11.760
No, he would have lost them.

1056
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:13.739
But it is in the wash with his son.

1057
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.980
It's interesting how he's standing out people because something

1058
00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:18.239
that we commented about so often.

1059
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:20.159
Like, suddenly it's like, 0 my goodness, who's going to come in

1060
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.079
and actually script edit, like we're suddenly at this point.

1061
00:48:22.139 --> 00:48:23.940
And succession planning.

1062
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.619
What I can't will go on to do.

1063
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.360
Did he script anything else of significance?

1064
00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:29.159
He went on to casualty after this.

1065
00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:31.199
Which was quite a big thing.

1066
00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:31.980
And that was the thing.

1067
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:36.119
The doctor production office stayed open, I believe, for a year

1068
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:42.300
after survival went out with JNT there and a skeleton staff.

1069
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:47.340
And a few months after Doctor Who wasn't cancelled, but nobody

1070
00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:48.300
knew what was happening.

1071
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:50.940
That's when Cartmel got the offer of casualty and he went to JNT

1072
00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:52.019
and said, look, what should I do?

1073
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.719
And JNT said, you've got to work. and it's a good opportunity for

1074
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:54.840
you.

1075
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:56.099
Go, do it.

1076
00:48:56.219 --> 00:48:59.820
You know, if Doctor Who comes up will figure something out, but at

1077
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:02.940
that point, even JNT, like, doesn't look good.

1078
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.719
They must have had some idea that this was a possible ending

1079
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:11.880
because the whole of survival is kind of lyrical and poetic and

1080
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:16.079
the dialogue is not realistic and you do have that long final

1081
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:19.559
scene where the doctor's absent, then Sophie becomes the doctor.

1082
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:24.420
You know, she gets her his hat and his umbrella.

1083
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:26.820
And then finally the doctor comes back.

1084
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:30.780
You know, there's closure, she's decided the TARDIS is her home

1085
00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:32.099
and not pair of ale.

1086
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:33.840
And then they walk off arm in arm.

1087
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:38.039
Which was meant to be shot against a sunset, wearing had timed

1088
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:41.519
that so carefully that that, the thing for tea.

1089
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:43.199
So they were aware that was coming up.

1090
00:49:43.260 --> 00:49:44.940
It wasn't a complete afterthought.

1091
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.940
But because the makeup lady who I won't mention.

1092
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.599
Spent so much time faffing around with Lisa Bowman's hair.

1093
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.659
But yeah, that's why that thing just went on so long.

1094
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:55.920
And they were so tight for time.

1095
00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:59.099
They were getting temperatures of over 40 degrees, 110.

1096
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:02.099
Yeah, they were expecting it to be warm and it was the same sand

1097
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:03.840
pit they shot, greater show in.

1098
00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:07.980
But it was actually freakishly warm for an English summer.

1099
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:11.699
So Lisa Bowman's cheetah person head, if you like, was a hero

1100
00:50:11.699 --> 00:50:15.179
cheetah person head, but then you had a whole bunch of less well

1101
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:17.039
fitted ones, which were twice.

1102
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:18.300
They were mostly made of asbestos.

1103
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.960
Yeah, they were twice the weight and twice as heavy.

1104
00:50:22.019 --> 00:50:26.460
So Lisa Bowman is kind of like, it was hot for me, but then you've

1105
00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:28.860
got all these extras over here getting paid tuppence.

1106
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.579
With one famous girl said, that's it.

1107
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.599
I'm buggering off and left, walked off the set. pull a costume

1108
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:36.840
off.

1109
00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:39.480
We just watched Sylvester McCoy interviewed about that.

1110
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:45.480
And his fanciful recollection of it was that the actor in question

1111
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:48.179
didn't remember that the only thing she was wearing under the

1112
00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:51.840
costume was a tiny G string and then she walked off into the

1113
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:53.880
sunset with nothing on but a G string.

1114
00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:56.699
And I think that that sounds fairly implausible.

1115
00:50:56.760 --> 00:51:00.119
Sylvester, that's how Sylvester likes to remember it.

1116
00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:01.619
Is that a Doctor Who fact?

1117
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:05.460
Like, like the asbestos headset.

1118
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:05.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1119
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:09.300
I look forward to reading about this. on Twitter or whatever, very

1120
00:51:09.300 --> 00:51:09.659
soon.

1121
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:10.800
Definitively true.

1122
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:15.599
So, so, um, so the cheetah women of survival, artist Sylvester

1123
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:19.559
McCoy as the cyberman in Silver Nemesis, artist.

1124
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:22.019
Oh, my goodness.

1125
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:26.460
We wish, but what Nathan's saying is really lovely and really true

1126
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:28.500
and I've forgotten that, even though I've just watched it again

1127
00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:31.500
that yes, Ace becomes the Romana or the doctor for that little

1128
00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:36.420
moment, which is kind of like presaging rose and how she has more

1129
00:51:36.420 --> 00:51:38.699
than a quality in the 1st story coming.

1130
00:51:38.699 --> 00:51:41.219
Well, I think she becomes the doctor because she has to learn not

1131
00:51:41.219 --> 00:51:43.619
to use violence to solve the problem, you know.

1132
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.800
And so she's, when she says...

1133
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:49.079
And they both have the same struggle, both a doctor and ace.

1134
00:51:49.380 --> 00:51:49.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1135
00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:51.119
When she's saying please help me.

1136
00:51:51.179 --> 00:51:53.820
It's not like Ace couldn't beat the crap out of all of those

1137
00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:55.320
skinny, you know, guys.

1138
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:58.380
It's that she doesn't want to find. help me because I can't find.

1139
00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:02.159
We see it as being casting because that's all you could get in the

1140
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:04.920
80s because nobody went to the gym in the late 80s.

1141
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:06.119
But that's right.

1142
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:08.460
No, maybe it was, well, yes, maybe there's just a bit of

1143
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:09.719
serendipity, like everything else.

1144
00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:14.159
Well, I think also that's the look that denoted fitness in the

1145
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:14.460
time.

1146
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:18.420
You know, the jogging craze, milk causes jogging and everyone

1147
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:20.880
knows that jogging gives you heart attacks, but, you know, that

1148
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:23.460
was the typical look.

1149
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:27.300
Now, like the sort of desire look now that you see on all the of

1150
00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:31.860
the men's fitness magazines is the Chris Hemsworth Jason Momoa

1151
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:32.280
model.

1152
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:34.320
Much, much like us here on this podcast.

1153
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.380
Especially after eating this wonderful cake.

1154
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:40.920
I'm Jason Mimosa. that a drink?

1155
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:46.500
Jason Momoa is the new Aquaman and Carl Drago from Game of

1156
00:52:46.500 --> 00:52:46.920
Thrones.

1157
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:49.079
And he was in Stargate Atlantis.

1158
00:52:49.139 --> 00:52:52.920
I have seen a picture graph of the Aquaman thing.

1159
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:56.760
I just thought he was another Kardashian.

1160
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:00.840
All that hair.

1161
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:02.039
Pouting.

1162
00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:05.099
Because we didn't have the internet, and we only had like certain

1163
00:53:05.099 --> 00:53:07.079
sources of information about the show.

1164
00:53:07.139 --> 00:53:10.559
Throughout this entire season, I was very worried that Ace was

1165
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.420
going to be killed off, right?

1166
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.360
Not like now we sort of know when actors are leaving and all that

1167
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.980
sort of thing, so you know that something's going to happen.

1168
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.719
So I actually was expecting, in this final episode, one of the 2

1169
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:25.920
main characters possibly to die, either be the doctor or A. So

1170
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.019
when we have the motorcycle thing or when she's going to go on it

1171
00:53:28.019 --> 00:53:30.900
I was having heart palpitations that, you know, this is it, you

1172
00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:31.139
know?

1173
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.260
It's just very interesting, like very different from now.

1174
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:38.099
Yeah, even knowing now that that doesn't happen.

1175
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:41.400
You get that sense from those final scenes.

1176
00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:43.139
It is particularly doom laden.

1177
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.079
And yeah, the motorcycle stunt is terrible.

1178
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:49.139
And of course, they lost the services of tip tipping because they

1179
00:53:49.139 --> 00:53:52.320
used stunt driver Eddie Kidd, who wasn't a member, I think, of

1180
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:53.340
equity.

1181
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:57.179
And Tip said, you know, this isn't properly covered by insurance.

1182
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:59.639
I am not just the stunt guy, I'm the stunt arranger.

1183
00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:01.860
And he did it, but then he walked off.

1184
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:05.699
He said, I'll do this one, so you get the shot, but that's my end

1185
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:06.599
with the show.

1186
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:08.579
And of course, he didn't live long after this.

1187
00:54:08.699 --> 00:54:10.199
A few years later, he died doing a stunt.

1188
00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:13.139
Due to a gypsy curse from JNT.

1189
00:54:13.619 --> 00:54:15.719
He's in aliens.

1190
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:18.300
And he is in Batman.

1191
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:21.239
It was a parachute accident that tore him off.

1192
00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:23.460
Was it after it was it wasn't during the Batman?

1193
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:24.539
No, no.

1194
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:29.579
I think it was around 1992 on like a rescue 911 style show.

1195
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.820
So, yeah, he was doing a reenactment of a parachute accident and

1196
00:54:32.820 --> 00:54:35.579
his shoot, failed to deploy.

1197
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:39.480
But yeah, there is a certain feeling of doom there and there's the

1198
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:43.679
wonderful confrontation between Sylvan Anthony.

1199
00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:47.460
And I think of all the doctors that Anthony's worked with.

1200
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:49.860
He has actually has the best chemistry with silv.

1201
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.679
We get that wonderful quiet scene with them in the ruins talking

1202
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:54.780
about what the planet's like.

1203
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:58.380
And neither of them are shouting at each other or snarling.

1204
00:54:58.619 --> 00:55:01.739
And so, you know, with Davidson, Davidson, of course, did the

1205
00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:05.880
Breathy shouty thing and Ainley did the sort of snarling because

1206
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.699
the directors were always telling him to ham it up with Colin.

1207
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:11.699
He didn't get much of a fair goat with Colin, really, because Kate

1208
00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:14.159
was there and then in Ultimate though, he doesn't get too much.

1209
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:17.880
So he gets some real stuff too, no pun intended. sink his teeth

1210
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:18.119
into.

1211
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:19.320
Can I ask a question?

1212
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:22.619
So at the end of this, like they're fighting on that mat and the

1213
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:25.440
doctor goes, if we fight like animals with dialogue animals.

1214
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:29.579
And then he, like, he raises that bone or whatever the skull is to

1215
00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:31.079
either bash the master, whatever.

1216
00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:34.559
And then he gets transported back to the Tartars.

1217
00:55:34.619 --> 00:55:37.199
Now I've always gone, well, why?

1218
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:41.219
Oh, well, I think at that point he's got the yellow eyes because

1219
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:43.679
he's being drawn into fighting.

1220
00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:48.780
Remember violence on that planet causes you to be possessed by the

1221
00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:49.320
planet?

1222
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.440
And so because he's got the yellow eyes, he can transport himself

1223
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:52.679
home.

1224
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:54.179
But don't you have to be running?

1225
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:55.800
Doesn't somebody have to have looped you?

1226
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:57.179
No, no, no, no.

1227
00:55:57.239 --> 00:55:57.719
No.

1228
00:55:57.780 --> 00:56:01.320
So he loops Midge because Midge is turning into a wild animal.

1229
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:04.500
So it's so he can piggyback on Midge if you like.

1230
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:06.059
Well, it's not just been done before.

1231
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:09.719
Like when Kara or somebody else comes, they're going hunting.

1232
00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:12.119
Yeah, no, I think that's okay.

1233
00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:16.440
I think that sort of weird music video clip scene.

1234
00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:21.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is like massively over kind of produced

1235
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:23.820
with all of those sort of video effects and stuff.

1236
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:28.619
I think it works terrifically well because what it does is it

1237
00:56:28.619 --> 00:56:33.300
takes an instance of violence where the doctor and the master are

1238
00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:37.260
trying physically to kill one another and it makes it real.

1239
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:39.539
Like it's a metaphor for that struggle.

1240
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:43.619
And he rejects that struggle, which just makes it right that he

1241
00:56:43.619 --> 00:56:44.400
should leave that scene.

1242
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:48.119
Yeah, and and also, you know, he gets teleported home.

1243
00:56:48.179 --> 00:56:50.760
He gets teleported to the TARDIS, but also, interestingly, he gets

1244
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:53.159
teleported to a suburban street in London.

1245
00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:57.179
Yeah, which he we haven't seen since Hand of Fear, with the Tartar

1246
00:56:57.179 --> 00:56:57.539
sonor.

1247
00:56:57.659 --> 00:56:59.880
Suburban Street Corner. right.

1248
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah, no we really haven't.

1249
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:06.059
But also, nice parallel with like the new series where we're often

1250
00:57:06.059 --> 00:57:07.619
in suburban streets in London.

1251
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:11.039
So what you were saying before, Nathan, about, you know, this

1252
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:15.239
moving towards what we see in the new series, it very much is like

1253
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:19.139
present day, thematic issues and locate.

1254
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.800
And yeah, Russell T. Davies has gone on record as saying, yeah

1255
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:26.159
what Andrew Cartmel and Silv and Sophie and JNT were doing in the

1256
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:28.860
last few years, that has set up what we're doing now.

1257
00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:33.179
And also, too, with incidental music, like the themes running

1258
00:57:33.179 --> 00:57:35.760
through the whole episodes and building and, you know, that sort

1259
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:38.460
of thing, which is what Murray Gold does.

1260
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:40.079
Yeah.

1261
00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:46.380
But yeah, that that walk off at the end, I believe that the

1262
00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:50.219
production team knew, there might be another hiatus is what they

1263
00:57:50.219 --> 00:57:50.579
were told.

1264
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:52.559
They didn't tell the actors that for several months.

1265
00:57:52.619 --> 00:57:58.500
So that scene was seen as, this is our season finale, like Doctor

1266
00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:01.079
Who Are You was meant to be for season 25.

1267
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:06.300
It's kind of this is a nice moment to close out the season, but it

1268
00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:09.420
was also seen as, look, if we're away for a while, this tells the

1269
00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:12.059
audience that our characters are still out having adventures and

1270
00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:12.539
what have you.

1271
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:17.519
And it, look, I 1st watched this, I think, around 9293.

1272
00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:18.659
It was a few years later.

1273
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:24.480
So we're talking 15 years ago, 25 years ago.

1274
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:26.219
Ah, you forgot the 90s.

1275
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:29.219
We all did. 25 years ago.

1276
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:32.280
I watched this and still when I watch it now.

1277
00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:34.619
I have a little cry at the end of that bit.

1278
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:37.920
Not just because I know what it represents because, of course, we

1279
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:39.539
have the new series now and we know it's back.

1280
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:44.699
But because we've had all this stuff about the series telling us

1281
00:58:44.699 --> 00:58:47.639
again that the doctor should stand against violence, even if he

1282
00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:50.400
uses it occasionally, he comes to his senses and that saves him.

1283
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:55.019
But also it tells us what their story is about.

1284
00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:57.420
It's about going off and seeing fabulous places.

1285
00:58:57.480 --> 00:58:58.800
It's about fighting injustice.

1286
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.039
And it's also about having cups of tea because this is British, god

1287
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:02.460
damn it.

1288
00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:04.679
But it's also that small beautiful things.

1289
00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:05.519
Do you know what I mean?

1290
00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:07.440
It's Sylvester's well-repared meal.

1291
00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:11.039
And of course, you know, no one ever has a well-prepared meal in

1292
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:12.539
the Eric's Awood era.

1293
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.739
But here we do actually have just real proper domestic things, you

1294
00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:19.980
know, going to the pub, seeing people in the street, you know

1295
00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:22.800
kicking a football around the top of Horsenden Hill.

1296
00:59:22.860 --> 00:59:25.320
Like this is really the 1st story set.

1297
00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:29.820
It's still kind of the TV real world, but it is set in the real

1298
00:59:29.820 --> 00:59:30.239
world.

1299
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:34.559
It's like Doctor Who finally, for the 1st time, is set in the

1300
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.079
actual present day in an actual real place.

1301
00:59:37.139 --> 00:59:40.920
Well, Retardis hasn't been seen in present day London since Attack

1302
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:42.059
of the Cybermen, has it?

1303
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:43.440
Yeah, think you're right.

1304
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:46.440
So we've had and then hand a few in the streets, if everyone's

1305
00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:48.000
going, check, check, check, check.

1306
00:59:48.059 --> 00:59:51.239
Very briefly in Sylvan Nemesis, but not in any meaningful sort of

1307
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:51.480
way.

1308
00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:54.300
Like, it doesn't interact with the culture, like it does.

1309
00:59:54.300 --> 00:59:56.219
Is it on a London street?

1310
00:59:56.219 --> 00:59:56.940
Not in London, though.

1311
00:59:56.940 --> 00:59:58.019
It's in the Windsor.

1312
00:59:58.139 --> 00:59:58.980
Yeah, so known.

1313
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:00.900
We haven't been in London since...

1314
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:01.679
No, you're quite right.

1315
01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:02.219
Quite right.

1316
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:04.980
Which was also the beginning of something that should have been.

1317
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:06.719
I pretend that twin dilemma never happened.

1318
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:10.320
And if you do that, then Collins era starts off really well.

1319
01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:12.840
I love episode one of Attack at the side.

1320
01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:15.179
I never thought I'd hear myself saying that.

1321
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:16.320
I think he's great in that.

1322
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:19.019
And I think Sylv and Sophie are at their best in this.

1323
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:19.739
Yeah.

1324
01:00:19.739 --> 01:00:23.039
One of the things that I've missed in the last few years of the

1325
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:26.159
Moffat era is London.

1326
01:00:26.219 --> 01:00:27.539
It hasn't been enough London.

1327
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:28.019
Yeah.

1328
01:00:28.019 --> 01:00:33.480
Or families or, you know, human beings with feelings.

1329
01:00:33.539 --> 01:00:34.380
Not enough mums.

1330
01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:35.760
Yeah, a lot of angst.

1331
01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:39.480
The producers I blame, you know.

1332
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:43.980
Sending out all these alien scripts all times of the day, but it's

1333
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:46.019
us fans sitting around who have to deal with it.

1334
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:48.659
It's us fans who have to watch it, but do they spare any thought?

1335
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:50.820
Do they spare any thought for the casting decisions?

1336
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:51.239
No.

1337
01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:53.219
We're the ones who have to deal with.

1338
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:55.260
Dear listener, don't bother going to conventions.

1339
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:55.920
Just listen to us.

1340
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:57.420
So you say.

1341
01:00:57.719 --> 01:01:01.860
It's going to be a few sad mums after this and survival of the

1342
01:01:01.860 --> 01:01:02.460
death toll.

1343
01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:05.159
Sorry, I just ended on that down, are you?

1344
01:01:06.539 --> 01:01:10.199
Okay, Jenny Laird awards for puzzling creative choice.

1345
01:01:10.260 --> 01:01:12.360
This is another difficult one for me, so I'm going to ask if

1346
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:13.079
anyone wants to go first.

1347
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:14.519
I've got one.

1348
01:01:14.579 --> 01:01:15.119
Okay.

1349
01:01:15.179 --> 01:01:18.179
It's really minor because this season's so great and I don't want

1350
01:01:18.179 --> 01:01:22.860
to wail on Kev McCulloch again. leave him for one of you three.

1351
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:26.639
I think it's an odd decision in this story to make Julian

1352
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:29.340
Holloway's character a sort of army guy.

1353
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.019
Because he was cast as a cop.

1354
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:34.440
Yeah, the original script has him as a cop and heaps of the

1355
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:37.500
dialogue doesn't make sense if he's not a cop.

1356
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:41.159
So all of that stuff in episode one about, you know, we, the

1357
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:44.940
police let you off with a warning or was originally we let you off

1358
01:01:44.940 --> 01:01:45.599
with a warning.

1359
01:01:45.659 --> 01:01:48.300
You know, he seems to know that she's disappeared.

1360
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.719
He knows that her mother is listed her as a missing person.

1361
01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:55.860
It just doesn't, like, I'm not quite sure what the army thing is.

1362
01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:00.539
And particularly since, like, presumably they wanted to make his

1363
01:02:00.539 --> 01:02:04.980
character a sort of symbol of coercive violence.

1364
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:08.699
But I'm sure a police uniform would do that just as well.

1365
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:11.159
And would have also gone back to an earthly child.

1366
01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:12.300
Yeah, yeah.

1367
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:16.440
Yeah, the only reason I can think of is, you know, they've gotten

1368
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:23.400
in trouble for turning police into villains before, but army

1369
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:24.360
officers. fine.

1370
01:02:24.420 --> 01:02:27.480
No one minded the police shooting up all of those people in

1371
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:29.820
Resurrection of the Daleks episode one.

1372
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:31.320
No, that's true, actually.

1373
01:02:31.380 --> 01:02:32.219
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

1374
01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:33.420
I was thinking back to autons.

1375
01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:36.960
But no, I never knew that he was meant to be a police sergeant and

1376
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.860
it makes a lot more sense.

1377
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:38.400
You're right.

1378
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:39.420
Yeah.

1379
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:42.599
Oh, look, I'm just gonna be shooting fish in a barrel here.

1380
01:02:42.659 --> 01:02:43.380
Give it to Kev.

1381
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:48.900
It's a joint award for it's a joint award for the director, non

1382
01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:52.199
direction of battlefield, which I think is just appalling in so

1383
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:55.739
many instances, especially action sequences and long shots and

1384
01:02:55.739 --> 01:02:57.360
driving of cars.

1385
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:03.000
That is then also compounded with Kiff McCulloch's crap music

1386
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:06.539
throughout the entire, all of those sequences just doesn't even

1387
01:03:06.539 --> 01:03:09.000
add a single bit to the story.

1388
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:10.019
It's just a boarding.

1389
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:11.940
So they get my genuine award.

1390
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:16.739
Richard Sorry, Richard, in case I...

1391
01:03:16.739 --> 01:03:18.239
Please dig in the night some more.

1392
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:19.380
Todd has said nothing.

1393
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:23.579
I can disagree with on any level. on this podcast so that, you

1394
01:03:23.579 --> 01:03:25.500
know, very seldom does.

1395
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:29.340
But mine is actually, speaking Murray gold, you can have too much

1396
01:03:29.340 --> 01:03:30.300
of a good thing.

1397
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:34.019
Get a bit brass finger after too much gold fingering.

1398
01:03:34.139 --> 01:03:37.559
And I've got to say, I've got to say that the lovely Dominic Glynn

1399
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:40.500
as skilled and talented and varied as he is, at Nick and other

1400
01:03:40.500 --> 01:03:41.280
people's scores.

1401
01:03:41.340 --> 01:03:45.539
There's a whole lot of the Firebird in his work, especially in

1402
01:03:45.539 --> 01:03:45.840
this one.

1403
01:03:45.900 --> 01:03:48.539
If you go back to your Russians.

1404
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:51.360
But he insists on telling us exactly how we're supposed to be

1405
01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:52.440
feeling at this point.

1406
01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:55.440
And he loves the films of Hitchcock, and he certainly loves

1407
01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:56.219
Wells.

1408
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:59.880
So, yes, with happiness patrol, even though I love the score, but

1409
01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:03.480
it's also to Marquez as well, for Ghost Light, perhaps even more

1410
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:03.900
so.

1411
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:07.739
Composers at this time were looking at, there was a whole thing in

1412
01:04:07.739 --> 01:04:10.980
cinema, in cinema and composing in the 80s and universities like

1413
01:04:10.980 --> 01:04:13.079
you know, about the emotional content of work.

1414
01:04:13.139 --> 01:04:15.420
But stop telling us how to feel.

1415
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:18.119
Just give us, go back and actually watch these film wires and

1416
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:20.400
you'll see what they did with the scoring. was a lot more subtle.

1417
01:04:20.699 --> 01:04:23.460
Isn't that contentious and bitchy?

1418
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:25.500
That's what we're here for. right.

1419
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:29.340
So my puzzling creative choice.

1420
01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:35.760
It could be Keff and Michael, but I think Pointing at Todd and

1421
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:38.159
indeed myself.

1422
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:39.599
What are you trying to say?

1423
01:04:39.659 --> 01:04:41.099
It could be.

1424
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:44.639
The moving finger points too.

1425
01:04:44.699 --> 01:04:47.340
It could be Keffen Michael, but I'm going to go with something

1426
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:50.280
really nitpicky and specific and it's something I mentioned

1427
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:50.639
before.

1428
01:04:52.860 --> 01:04:53.219
Yes.

1429
01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:56.219
No, it's I love Sylvester.

1430
01:04:56.280 --> 01:04:56.820
Yes.

1431
01:04:56.820 --> 01:05:00.420
And there are very few moments in his era that I can point to

1432
01:05:00.420 --> 01:05:02.039
where I think he does a poor job.

1433
01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:04.679
But this is one of them, and I think it's actually the worst

1434
01:05:04.679 --> 01:05:07.380
delivery of a line he ever does.

1435
01:05:08.099 --> 01:05:10.139
Morgain!

1436
01:05:10.139 --> 01:05:13.260
If they're dead. dead.

1437
01:05:13.739 --> 01:05:15.960
It's like he's in the room.

1438
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:19.500
It's like, what emotion are you going for there?

1439
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:21.300
have no idea what's happening.

1440
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:23.880
I'm so glad you reminded me that.

1441
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:28.440
Because I do agree that's another one of his inability to sort of

1442
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:30.420
shout, et cetera.

1443
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:36.059
But to me, the director should be stepping in insane, saying, okay

1444
01:05:36.059 --> 01:05:36.659
can we have another?

1445
01:05:36.659 --> 01:05:37.440
Give it another go.

1446
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:39.719
That is her director's job after all, isn't it?

1447
01:05:39.780 --> 01:05:40.739
Could we have a good version?

1448
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:43.380
Yeah.

1449
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.380
Sylvester was always struggling to find his tone, but I think

1450
01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:50.460
that's a kind of nice mirror on the doctor himself and try and we

1451
01:05:50.460 --> 01:05:53.760
get that with survival battling against his instincts for because

1452
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:54.599
he knows he's right.

1453
01:05:54.659 --> 01:05:57.179
It's very difficult for people who are confirmed in their belief

1454
01:05:57.179 --> 01:06:01.380
that they're right to be able to argue with any semblance of

1455
01:06:01.380 --> 01:06:04.679
apparent respect as we're seeing right now in the Australian

1456
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:09.300
electoral blah that we're all still going through.

1457
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:12.900
All right, pics of the week.

1458
01:06:13.019 --> 01:06:16.260
Well, I kind of want to pick an up and coming new podcast called

1459
01:06:16.260 --> 01:06:17.880
New To Who.

1460
01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:19.320
Have you heard this, Richard?

1461
01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:20.159
No, not at all.

1462
01:06:20.219 --> 01:06:20.639
What's that?

1463
01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:26.099
Yes, another bloody Doctor Who podcast.com.

1464
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:27.300
We don't know her.

1465
01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:29.400
And what are they doing?

1466
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:30.539
Yeah, what do they do?

1467
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:33.119
I have actually picked them before I mostly pick them again just

1468
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:34.320
to annoy Richard today.

1469
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:40.139
So they're a few episodes in now, their most recent episode.

1470
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:43.199
Oh, the one that Paul Cornell can't apparently go into the

1471
01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:44.219
bathroom without having on.

1472
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.260
I need to do that one.

1473
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:46.619
Yes.

1474
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:47.400
Yes.

1475
01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:52.559
So apparently it's ably assisting all functions required for a

1476
01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:52.980
fan.

1477
01:06:53.340 --> 01:06:55.019
A modern fan.

1478
01:06:55.139 --> 01:06:55.980
I don't know about that.

1479
01:06:56.039 --> 01:07:00.059
But at the very least, it is actually good. really good.

1480
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:03.239
And they have the advantage of being able to pick just good Doctor

1481
01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:04.380
Who stories.

1482
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:09.119
Not doing everybody. whose stupid idea was to be every Doctor Who

1483
01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:09.900
story in order.

1484
01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:15.599
Sorry, are they picking stories for people who want to drop into

1485
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:16.260
doctors?

1486
01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:19.380
Yeah, so the idea is in theory that if you're a fan of the new

1487
01:07:19.380 --> 01:07:23.880
series, these are good stories and kind of representative stories

1488
01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:25.500
for you to watch.

1489
01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:28.260
And so they tend to be only 4 episodes.

1490
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:30.300
There's no arc stories or anything like that.

1491
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:34.679
But they have chosen, you know, stories from all over.

1492
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:37.260
So they've done, you know, like an unearthly child.

1493
01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:41.639
Their most recent episode is on Tomb of the Cybermen at the time

1494
01:07:41.639 --> 01:07:42.780
of our recording.

1495
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:44.340
Yeah, they've done remembrance, for instance.

1496
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:45.900
Yeah, yeah.

1497
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:48.539
Yeah, I've heard. that the twin dilemma's coming up.

1498
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:49.260
It is.

1499
01:07:49.260 --> 01:07:52.079
The savages.

1500
01:07:52.139 --> 01:07:54.119
Actually, the savages...

1501
01:07:54.179 --> 01:07:55.440
And the massacre.

1502
01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:56.159
The massacre.

1503
01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.980
The celestial toy maker.

1504
01:07:59.039 --> 01:07:59.579
Exactly.

1505
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:01.440
All 15 episodes.

1506
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:04.679
So that's my pick of the week.

1507
01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:05.400
Excellent.

1508
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:09.360
I would like to pick something slightly related to this episode

1509
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:10.260
but not quite about this episode.

1510
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:13.920
Dominic Glynn has recently released the happiness patrol remixes.

1511
01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:14.699
Ooh.

1512
01:08:14.699 --> 01:08:17.340
And so it's about 30 minutes long.

1513
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:18.539
You can get it on iTunes.

1514
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:20.520
And yeah, it's still using the same music.

1515
01:08:20.579 --> 01:08:23.880
I think he may have even gone back to his original files and he's

1516
01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:25.800
just been updating it from there.

1517
01:08:25.859 --> 01:08:28.619
So yeah, and it was a great score to begin with, but this kind of

1518
01:08:28.619 --> 01:08:31.260
plays with it in the harmonica music and what have you.

1519
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:34.800
So yeah, Dominic Glynn's Happiness Patrol remixes is my pick.

1520
01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:40.619
My pick of the wink is the Blu-ray of these movies that are called

1521
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:43.920
The Hobbit, because it's got a certain actor in there and a couple

1522
01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:45.600
of them, and I really like his performance.

1523
01:08:45.659 --> 01:08:48.840
Much better in the extended versions than they were in the cinema

1524
01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:49.319
versions.

1525
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:49.800
Yeah?

1526
01:08:49.859 --> 01:08:50.880
Whatever.

1527
01:08:50.939 --> 01:08:55.319
I think it's, I just have a warm spot for Sylvester in them, and I

1528
01:08:55.319 --> 01:08:56.039
think he does a great job.

1529
01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:57.600
Oh, is Sylvester McCoy in the Hobbit?

1530
01:08:57.659 --> 01:08:58.199
didn't realise.

1531
01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:59.279
I've never heard of that.

1532
01:08:59.819 --> 01:09:04.199
It's almost as if he doesn't mention it every time he opens his

1533
01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:04.560
mouth.

1534
01:09:04.619 --> 01:09:07.979
You can paint me later soon. you later.

1535
01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:09.359
Oh dear.

1536
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:10.979
Yeah, they are terrible, aren't they?

1537
01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:13.800
More like just to be a total fanboy.

1538
01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:16.560
I think the only new thing that I've been enjoying this this year

1539
01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:22.199
are the Titan comics of the ninth doctor and the 12th doctor

1540
01:09:22.199 --> 01:09:22.739
ones.

1541
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:25.739
They're really good story arcing and actually really nicely done

1542
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:27.779
and very true to the feeling of the of the seasons.

1543
01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:30.899
They did a Tom one and the pertly one was very good because

1544
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:31.979
Cornell wrote it, of course.

1545
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:34.800
But yeah, I really do like the Titan comic ones, but I would

1546
01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:35.939
certainly go for music.

1547
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:39.720
I would actually go back and listen to Sam Waxman, listen to some

1548
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:43.319
Bernard Herman scores or any of the 40s film wise, Waxman

1549
01:09:43.319 --> 01:09:46.619
especially if you like some of the scoring for this season, then

1550
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:49.560
go back to some of the great film noir composers. on YouTube.

1551
01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:52.319
You just listen to it, but you can really hear where, especially

1552
01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:53.880
Dominic Glenn are coming, is coming from.

1553
01:09:54.300 --> 01:09:57.720
And Marigold has left now, hasn't he?

1554
01:09:57.779 --> 01:09:58.859
We're not, we're not saying.

1555
01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:00.600
I don't think any announcement has been...

1556
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:03.840
No, but my guess is that he will do the Christmas special and that

1557
01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:04.380
would be the end.

1558
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:07.199
Well, I have nothing awful to say about him until after he's gone

1559
01:10:07.199 --> 01:10:07.500
then.

1560
01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:11.340
But really if you just want to go back and watch any old film

1561
01:10:11.340 --> 01:10:12.000
you'll hear him again.

1562
01:10:12.359 --> 01:10:14.159
Said that with love.

1563
01:10:32.220 --> 01:10:36.119
Well, dear listener, that is the end of the classic series of

1564
01:10:36.119 --> 01:10:37.859
Doctor Who, the flight for Entirety.

1565
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:41.399
We will be back next week with a Sylvester Retrospective.

1566
01:10:41.460 --> 01:10:43.560
We will be covering the telly movie.

1567
01:10:43.619 --> 01:10:44.939
A bit of housekeeping.

1568
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:49.380
I know where we are a few commentaries, classic commentaries yet

1569
01:10:49.380 --> 01:10:53.279
to be recorded for various doctors.

1570
01:10:53.340 --> 01:10:55.800
Next week we're going to give you the nominations for our silver

1571
01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:56.399
commentaries.

1572
01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:57.479
So what's happening is this.

1573
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:01.380
After we recorded season 25, Richard had a holiday, of course.

1574
01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:07.859
And now Nathan's about to go on holiday, which means that pretty

1575
01:11:07.859 --> 01:11:10.800
much where we've come back from our break and we're going to have

1576
01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.340
an uninterrupted run through to the telly movie and a classic

1577
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:18.359
series overall retrospective as well as our silver retrospective.

1578
01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:21.180
And then we'll be taking a bit of a break till the new series.

1579
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:23.939
But occasionally in that time where we can fit them in, we will be

1580
01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:27.000
releasing the commentaries for Enlightenment, Revelation of the

1581
01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:30.600
Daleks, and whatever the silver one will be, and we will be back

1582
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:33.060
with the new series sometime in the new year.

1583
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:35.340
A lot of people have been asking, so that is the final

1584
01:11:35.340 --> 01:11:36.060
confirmation.

1585
01:11:36.119 --> 01:11:40.859
But yeah, we are going to take a bit of a break to simulate the 16

1586
01:11:40.859 --> 01:11:44.699
year break, Doctor Who had for television, but not quite as long.

1587
01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:47.340
So, uh, until then, you can find us online at flight through

1588
01:11:47.340 --> 01:11:50.100
entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple

1589
01:11:50.100 --> 01:11:54.600
Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter, over on Bondfinger

1590
01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:58.500
Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfinger casts

1591
01:11:58.500 --> 01:11:59.279
on Twitter.

1592
01:11:59.340 --> 01:12:03.239
Until next time, may none of your cats turn you into meals for

1593
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:03.899
cheaters.

1594
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:05.340
Somewhere else the tea is getting cold.

1595
01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:06.779
Thank you very much for listening, good night.

1596
01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:07.439
Good night.

1597
01:12:07.500 --> 01:12:08.340
See you soon.

1598
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:09.060
Good everyone.

1599
01:12:25.140 --> 01:12:29.520
That was Flat Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley

1600
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:31.020
Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1601
01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:34.439
Beam arrangement by Cameron Lamb, logo designed by Anthony Wells.

1602
01:12:35.460 --> 01:12:39.960
This episode, completely superfluous, was recorded on October the

1603
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:40.800
7th, 2017.

1604
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:43.439
The next episode will be released on November 12th.

1605
01:12:47.279 --> 01:12:48.899
Wanted.

1606
01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:50.760
One house sitter for perivale.

1607
01:12:50.819 --> 01:12:54.359
Must like cats, horses, and extreme body modification.

1608
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.560
Survival, survival, 7th of October.

1609
01:13:04.619 --> 01:13:05.699
I think.

1610
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:06.539
Is it?

1611
01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:07.920
Yes, all day.

1612
01:13:07.979 --> 01:13:08.460
Right.

1613
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:09.180
Okay.

1614
01:13:11.220 --> 01:13:13.979
Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, Nathan.

1615
01:13:14.039 --> 01:13:18.060
Red, leather, yellow, leather, red, leather, yellow, I'll see.

1616
01:13:18.119 --> 01:13:18.899
I'm not ready.

1617
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:20.579
I'm just going to stuff that up.