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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:59:34

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who knows exactly how dangerous a single finger can be.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm Todd.

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And my pussies come back looking like it's been dragged through a hedge backwards.

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It's one of those very special missions that requires all 4 of us, downtown Perivale in survival.

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It's a true story, too.

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Firstly, I would like to say, welcome back, Todd.

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Bit away for quite a while.

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It seems like ages, actually, but I'm here enjoying my chalk chip Madeira cake and the plain Madeira cake.

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Thank you, Brendan.

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And there's other cakes as well, supplied by Richard, so it's cake named for a long time.

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No, no, no.

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It was part of our original mission statement.

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So it's kind of nice to come back to it.

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A lot of things have come full circle, haven't they, on this story?

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It's nice that we're doing unearthly child again, is it?

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Well, it's skulls and fleas and desultory London.

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Yeah.

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I think it's, I think it's great that it's set in modern London.

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Yeah, like the original episode.

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And rather than, you know, we have a companion who's who's visiting London, just as Susan was visiting London, and we then go to another world where, as you said, everyone's riddled with fleas.

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And his hair like Eileen White?

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And tea.

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And fire is very dangerous on this planet.

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Before we get too deeply into survival, Todd, when we did Time and the Rani, I asked Richard for his general views on the Colin Baker era.

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So seeing as you haven't been with us for the Sylvester era, but I know you've been watching it, what are your thoughts on the Sylvester era up till now?

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No, I wasn't prepared for this.

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I thought this was going to be in the retrospective.

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What are my thoughts on it?

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Well, after.

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Enduring season 24.

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Um, and this is my opinions of that season are very different from the rest of the team here.

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Very, very different, but I consider it to be a necessary evil because without going into too much detail, Eric Saywood's gone, you've got a new script editor.

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You've got John Nathan Turner taking a backseat.

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There are things that I agree with you about.

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I agree with you in terms of the fact that the tone is all over the shop and it just doesn't work for me.

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But behind the scenes, decisions have been made and that serendipity stuff's happening.

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Like at the end of the season, Bonnie had to say I'm going so that Sophie could come and that influences the rest of it.

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And from that point onwards, like, Rememons of the Daleks is fantastic.

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Happiness Patrol is out of this world.

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I mean, the 2 of my favourite stories of all time.

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Ghost Light and Kursa Fenrich are just, you know, amazing.

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And the chemistry between Sylvester and Sophie, that energy in season 25 is really nice and season 26, they're just so comfortable with each other.

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So I've been really enjoying those 4 particular stories.

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Um, I can honestly say that Sylvester is very likeable, and I love his sort of, his quite a moments with characters and then his mischievousness or his mysteriousness that I think he does very well.

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Can't shout to save himself.

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And sometimes the comedy goes too far, but, you know, he's likeable, and I think that's something that I enjoy.

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I never considered him to be my least favourite doctor, but I never considered him to be my favourite doctor.

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Right?

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I've got more to ask Todd, but for the retrospective, on the levels that, um, Sylvester achieves when he actually, how he broaches that, and also what Todd thinks about the Mel and Silv, or the Mel and the doctor and how that might have gone.

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So that's more for the retrospective later, do listener.

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Yeah, I might have a few things to say about season 24.

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If you could see Podspace, I think you know he does.

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Yeah, there might be a rant.

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I warned people about that. podcast.

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But you know what?

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Like those 4 stories that I mentioned, if they were in the one season, it would be unbeatable.

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Like that's how good I think they are, right?

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And and although...

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Oh, and although Battlefield, Greater Show, and Nemesis are not up there with them, there's certainly things in all of those stories that I like.

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I would say greater shows is my biggest disappointment.

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Because we have listeners who say it's one of the greatest doctors, stories of all time.

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It's one of my favourite McCoys, but it depends because there are so many good ones.

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Yeah, but it's hard to do.

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So every time I watch Greater Show, I think it's going to be really brilliant, but then I come away disappointed, and I might talk about that in the retrospective, so an MS is just a pile of crap, except for the accent, except for any scene with Fiona Walker and the skinheads, which are, she is just phenomenal and so entertaining, but the rest of it, Oh my god, just shit that away.

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And of course, as I mentioned in our tweeting, Michael Kerrigan, the director of, no, he's not a director of Battlefield, is just, I can see what the actors are doing with a script that has its problems, but is also very entertaining.

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I like Battlefield in spite of the director.

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Yeah, right?

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I don't think anyone's going to disagree with you.

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Yeah, no, right.

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But, you know, I think this season, the costume on Sylvester, just things that just stick out.

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I love it when he says, think like a physicist.

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Like, that is, like, it's just a little moment that I love.

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And, and the end of Ghostlight, when he says that line about, what do you wish she would have done, she says, I wish I would have blown it up instead, and he says, wicked.

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That moment is just phenomenal.

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Phil's rewriting. favourite moment.

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I think it's possibly my favourite moment.

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Like, it was filmed last, obviously, in the whole thing and I just kind of, that's in the back of my mind.

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Both were actually being filmed.

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This one and Ghostlight, so there was a bit of backing, tuming and throwing, according to production notes.

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Well, they are in the they're in the same production blog.

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So they've got the same direction.

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I think it's really interesting.

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Like, you know, with, at the beginning of the 80s, we have 8 stories that are very influenced by the script editor, Christopher H.

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Bidmead, and then here at the end, you've got 8 stories in these, in these 2 seasons, which are Stoke Carponal, and they're just, there's just the themes running through and, and, um, yeah, and, you know, I just enjoy.

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I've been enjoying it.

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Like it's effortless and when I don't like it.

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Well, besides season 24, which talk about later.

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You know, it's not because I really think performances are terrible.

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It's just, it's more the script or the direction.

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Yeah, which is different from, yeah, I need to go back and listen to your review of season 23 again, because I'm now thinking if you're saying this now, does that mean I have to go back and watch trial over time?

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You know?

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And getting to this point, I've discovered that I think that Dominic Glynn.

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Yeah, yeah.

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This is just... phenomenal.

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There you go. phenomenal.

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And release, dear listener.

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It's true isn't it?

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And in these 14 episode seasons, like he was Mysterious Planet, 1st one, and he's doing the last one.

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Mysterious Planer is one of my all-time favourite scores and then Dragonfire, I think, possibly might be one of my, might be my favourite score of all time because it holds that story together and the actual transitions between when it goes from the dark side to the right side, that music in there is just...

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There's lots of nods to Austin Wells in this.

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Every time I listen to that score in Dragonfire, I'm blown away.

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Happiness Patrol. amazing.

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And then, well, we're now here with this and I think it's another winner.

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Yeah.

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And of course, every time we mention Dominic Glenn, we must mention his very kind permission for us to use his ultimate faux soundtrack to score our multi-awward-winning time incorporated report.

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Should we go ourselves an award for that?

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Yes, we did.

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And that's not taking anything against Mark Ayres, who I think is also really great.

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But then there's that other person.

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No one's mentioned the... the drum machine.

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The multi-Jenny Laird Award winning...

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Yes, yes, I will nominate him like, yeah, yeah.

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Like, the worst scores in this entire era, and possibly, there's 2 of them that I think are the worst in the history of the show, and that is Battlefield and Delton Battleman.

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Oh, great, a great recap.

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And the thing is, I know there's more coming next week in the retrospective.

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It's just to wet your appetite.

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Just too late, listeners.

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That's the right way to do this story because everything's in reverse.

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We've gone right back to the beginning.

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So in fact, doing a retrospective before we start on the last story is actually the way this story is already. coming across.

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But I like with this story, is the fact that besides what we've just briefly talked about with, you know, going back to Earth and then you will not make fire or whatever, you also have the fact that in the 80s, you have the master turning up at the beginning of the 80s, like in that 1st season, and now here he is, this long-running character, like, you know, from season 8 also being here at the end, it's sort of quite nice that it's that sort of wrap-up.

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Even though it looks like he's, you know, been in an old people's home and is incontinent and has gotten bad hair dye and all.

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But he's acting really well in this.

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You know, eyes, yellow teeth.

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You know, he's a throw-in.

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He wasn't in Monroe's original script.

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She was one of the few things that she was that was required. required her to put in, and I think it's sublime.

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And actually, I think it's only his best performance ever.

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Yeah, I do.

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Yeah, Cartmel says about her having to put the master in that the production team was a bit worried because, you know, we've seen what happens before when the master has to be inserted into stories.

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Like, like Mark of the Rani ware.

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It's a tree.

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Where, although, you know, he gets some fun scenes with Kate and some fun scenes with colonies completely superfluous.

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Andrew Cartmel has said why he thinks the master works so well in this story is when...

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Well, he's not a scarecrow.

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And he's not in the bloody penguin suit.

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But also, um...

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Tim Burton's got a lot to answer, doesn't he?

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But he thinks that Ronan Munro looked at the character and looked at the themes of her story and thought, how can I mesh these 2 together?

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And that's what happens with the master.

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He's inextricably linked with the theme of survival and change and corruption.

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Can I throw another word in?

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Patriarchy.

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Oh, yes.

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Because this, to me, is actually about boy's power and girl's power.

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And if I was going to actually draw it just to throw the ball in, Todd, what do you think?

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That's also a pun because, you know, they throw balls to the killing side.

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Do you see what I did then?

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But to me, this is direct parable, not just with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989.

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But that that fall was brought about by ladies functional business and pussies.

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This is actually about, I'm not the only one to say this.

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This is actually a parable.

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I'm thinking back to John Molino, one of the greatest people of all time who used to do mashups of visuals with terrible music.

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So he did that wonderful thing with Invasion of the Dinosaurs we've referred to, where he put Jane Birkins Jetin over the score of the over the visuals of the plastocene dinosaurs and they looked like they were necking.

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It was hilarious.

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He also did it with lots of shots of ace jumping around and advertisements for for ladies' personal protection items.

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And this is, to me, actually about women and women's biology and women's function as and the power and the and the release of women as a primal thing.

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And that was actually quite a big currency in the 80s in not just in fiction, in fact, fan fiction, but in the polemics at universities on feminist discourse.

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This is, to me, very much about women's bodies and women's power, and that whole lovely woo woo natural thing about the environment and the person being the same thing, which was also going back to the Gaia references, which we were getting a lot of at the time.

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The guy was a term that we were hearing as the planet and the ecosystem is the one thing and we are part of that.

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So this is by Ronan Monroe, of course, who wrote and wrote The Eaters of Light, like last season in season 10.

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So she's the only person to write for both iterations of the show.

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And both of her stories are really magical and really kind of thematically rich.

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And this one is super, as you said, about gender.

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And so the theme survival, I think it's the 1st Doctor Who story, where the title is an abstract noun, that is just the theme of the story.

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It's the sort of thing that happens on other TV shows all the time, but we're used to having, you know, the horror of the terror of the planet in space kind of titles for Doctor Who story.

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So survival is really unusual.

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Yeah.

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You know how that came about, though, too, because JNT was concerned there wasn't a monster in this.

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And, you know, it was actually he that was saying bring Ainley back in.

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We still got him for one season.

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You know, he's still had that contract.

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So we're paying him.

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So get him in here.

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But I think it was a stroke of genius.

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The women don't achieve that, like an Angie on the street, standing in front of all those annuals.

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You know, everything, including the labels on the cat food and the annuals in the shop outside the shop where Ange is talking to Ace.

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They were all handpicked or handprinted for this production.

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This is a whole...

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Yeah, to be thematically involved.

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The cats poster on the wall.

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The women are powerless under this patriarchy. and you've got people like the sergeant until they get to the place of the cats.

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Julian Stanley Holloway, son Julian Holloway.

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From up the Khyber.

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He was in up the car.

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Yes I know.

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The thing is, with the gender politics in this, it's the women who are right, and it's mostly the women who survive at the end of the story.

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You know, the master's fate is left ambiguous.

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Midge is killed Sergeant Patterson is killed, and all those characters have been saying all the way through Mite is right.

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Whereas Ace and Kara, Ace and Kara just want to run and hunt, but hunt to live and survive rather than it's the men who come in and corrupt this feminine power because we only really meet Kara out of the cheetah people.

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But there is an implication that they are feminine because cats in media are often seen as feminine, dogs are seen as masculine.

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Ronan Monroe again in eaters of light has a very strong central female role.

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You know, the leader of the young Picts.

195
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And also, when Bill falls in with the Romans, they're completely fine with the fact that she's a woman.

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Yeah.

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Oh, it's like, oh, you're a woman.

198
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Oh, oh, you only fancy women like, like, like Bob over there. only fancies men.

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How modern.

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Yeah, it's like, oh, this thing, the survival of the fittest thing is expressed in different ways among the male characters and the female characters.

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And we've talked in our ghost light episode about how survival of the fittest, which is also a theme in Ghost Light, parallels that kind of greed is good Thatcherst 80s thing where people saw financial success and being able to exploit other people as evidence that they were the fittest.

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They survive.

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The wasters go to the wall, the strong survive, you know, the weak die in order to enable the strong to survive.

204
00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:30.359
And the way that's played out among the men is, of course, through violence and hierarchy, eventually Midge, in episode 3 comes back and he's basically a barrow boy, you know, those sort of working class people who end up working in the city as sort of, you know, stockbrokers and stuff and make a lot of money and he ends up with a sharp suit and the sunglasses, he steals a motorcycle, and he comes in, you know, looking incredibly sort of slick and rich.

205
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:40.440
So he is representing that kind, that strand of survival, which is hierarchical, which is violent, but it's also dominated.

206
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.819
Yeah, but it's also financial.

207
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:42.599
Do you know what I mean?

208
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:43.740
It's social.

209
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.440
Whereas the women are also violent.

210
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.180
Like Cara kills that boy.

211
00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:58.799
And that boy is weak, remember, because he doesn't want to be violent towards the boy that he's fighting in episode one in the self-defence class.

212
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.279
So he's weak because he cares.

213
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:15.299
It's like when the doctor says you don't mind losing your friend, you know, whereas the women enjoy their own physicality and that's, you know, even though they commit violence, the thing that they, they're exhilarated by running.

214
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.160
They're exhilarated by hunting.

215
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:21.539
You know, they're excited by the experience of their own physicality.

216
00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:32.279
And I think that, that it's really, really amazingly gendered and super interesting and such an argument for getting women to write for the program.

217
00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:34.920
Because it's something that we've just never seen before.

218
00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:37.740
Wow.

219
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.980
Okay. something to think about, really?

220
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:52.079
You know, I was just going to come in and say like, you know, it's interesting how all the people chosen to be transported to all these men 25 to 35 and they all end up dying.

221
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.000
Even Midge.

222
00:18:54.059 --> 00:19:06.539
And we should reference the grooming that Midge undergoes under the master's hand to get to where he, but all the old biddies, like, you know, the woman tapping its sylvester and get shoe cats, like they don't get taken.

223
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.180
They're all, you know, just behind their neck.

224
00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:12.059
Todd's looking at us when he says...

225
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:22.140
But I mean, no, I was thinking about this because like when I was watching Curse of Fenwick, I felt that Fenwick was turning all the women into hemovores, but a lot of the men who they encountered got killed.

226
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.279
Like, so I was just thinking about that like in terms of those sort of things.

227
00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:38.940
When I was watching this for the live feet, when I was watching it with James, the very 1st guy who gets taken, the guy who's washing the car and calling out to his mum, Kathleen Bidmead, Kathleen Bidmead.

228
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.240
Yes.

229
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.099
Chris Bid meets mum.

230
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.319
James just said something lines off.

231
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.359
And of course, the 1st guy who gets killed is gay.

232
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.380
I'm like, what do you mean?

233
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.759
He said, it's 1989.

234
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.819
He's a man about 30.

235
00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:52.440
He lives with his mum.

236
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:53.640
He's out washing the car.

237
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.019
He's got a pink sponge.

238
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.079
You've got a pink sponge. always a giveaway.

239
00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:01.680
And, you know, it's we are still in an era of coding.

240
00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:07.500
When you see Midge's death, if I'm, you know, precursing that one, yeah, you know, with that fabulous motorcycle thing.

241
00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:11.400
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, where it appears that the doctor just magics himself away.

242
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:12.779
I really like that bit, actually.

243
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.859
I mean, you know, and he's done his finger doorbell on everybody else this season.

244
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.500
But Mitch doesn't appear to die so much of the injuries.

245
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:21.000
I think he's dying of a broken heart.

246
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.039
Yes, the masters dropped him.

247
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:27.960
Yeah, yeah, he has failed and the master tells him to die. really sinister.

248
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:30.180
You're too old for me now, love.

249
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.160
Well, you know what?

250
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:37.259
In the making of Will Barton, who played Midge, does say that...

251
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:45.660
But between takes out on, out on the common, they were, he was sitting in the car with Anthony Anley listening to the cricket because, of course, Anthony Anley was all about cricket.

252
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.140
And Sylvester's like, you know, you didn't really get to know Anthony Ainley and he was just as scary off cameras.

253
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:52.980
Yes, he was.

254
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:56.099
Yeah, that was mostly the wig, though, per course, to Peter Davidson.

255
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.259
But he really didn't connect with people.

256
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.980
Yeah, but you cut to Sophie Aldred and she says, yeah, you didn't connect with people.

257
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:14.700
But he said to me, Sophie, you're my friend, which I always thought was, oh, and I think it's because I was into cricket and we'd set up the rehearsal rooms with stumps at either end at lunchtime and we play, and you know, I didn't realise, but I became Anthony's friend through that.

258
00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:18.779
And of course, Anthony, Sylvester, and Sophie all share the same birthday.

259
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.720
And it happened during production.

260
00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:24.000
I don't want astrology, to be true.

261
00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:25.920
Stop it.

262
00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:37.440
But, you know, of course, like, I think Ainley was 10 years older than Silv, and Sophie was 20 years younger and still is, or about that, possibly less, because I think...

263
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.880
It's hard to tell with the upper middle class.

264
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.759
Yeah, no, they don't age the same way there is.

265
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:42.599
Last chance to say.

266
00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:43.319
Oh, no.

267
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:44.579
There's a few more.

268
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.880
Sophie does admit in the making off of this.

269
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:55.440
I think a should have been more street as she puts it, but the BBC wouldn't have it, much like the original title.

270
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:56.579
Or Dodo.

271
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.099
Yeah, well, that's just Dodo.

272
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:00.119
Nothing to do with the accent.

273
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.619
No, you can't do it with that accent.

274
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.640
Oh, okay, I'll do it like this.

275
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:03.779
No, no, no, you don't understand.

276
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.740
You.

277
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.819
You're gone, love.

278
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:09.839
But the original title of the story was, of course, Cat Flap.

279
00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:12.059
Richard.

280
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:20.640
It's just a, well, apparently this week, dear listener, segueing, but not very, not at all.

281
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:24.720
A black hole has been seen to actually emit matter for the very 1st time.

282
00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:27.779
So no, it's not something I need to fall into, right?

283
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.759
Was that Erica Betts?

284
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:30.539
No, NASA.

285
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.680
Same difference though, just as much of a void.

286
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:35.819
But yeah, yeah, it turns out.

287
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:41.039
Well, Andrew Cartmell got the script for Cat Flap and thought, we can't get Kenneth Williams.

288
00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:44.460
But Julian Holloway was in...

289
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:49.920
So he gets to the script for Cat Flap and he'd been trying to get Ronan Monroe for ages.

290
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.759
She's already done 4 productions for the BBC, 4 plays.

291
00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:57.539
But she was still on the list of young emerging talents being a lady person.

292
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:10.619
So she was up for the grant thing and that she would, therefore, she was part of Carmel's Catch Net because he was only using writers from that little pool that they had and that they were identified and he was very keen to use her.

293
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:19.619
I'm really glad he did Yeah, well, so am I, because he got the script and saw the title Cat Flap and thought, oh, okay, she still thinks Doctor Who is just for kids.

294
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:26.579
She's not taking it seriously, but as he read it, he suddenly realised the meaning of the title cat flap is, it can let your cat out, but it can let things in.

295
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.259
And that was her concept.

296
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.500
The reason they didn't go with it is actually related.

297
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:32.220
It's rude.

298
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:36.000
But it's also related to the happiness patrol.

299
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.940
Because during season 25, JNT was still giving information to fandom, like, these are the story titles coming up.

300
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:48.539
And when there's a story called the Happiness Patrol, fans were outraged.

301
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.420
No, you're turning it into a joke, how dare you, blah, blah.

302
00:23:51.480 --> 00:24:03.539
So he said to Carmel, look quite beyond any innuendo, I like the title, I like the idea, but the fans will backlash against it, and that'll create negative press.

303
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.460
So let's go with the title that's ambiguous, but sums up the tone and that's where survival comes in.

304
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.440
They could have called it cat flap of death.

305
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.019
Oh yeah, that's the thing.

306
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.539
Out of death at the end, the fans are fine.

307
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.700
Cake of death.

308
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.559
Okay, Gordef.

309
00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:24.000
Cat flap of fear would have actually...

310
00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:24.960
Fear is awesome.

311
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:31.859
And really, and far more closer to the narrative, because I think we're actually all fearing what the lady's secret powers are.

312
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:36.240
It's interesting how in, um, her story for series 10.

313
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:40.140
She also has that portal where things can come out, can go back in as well.

314
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.440
I mean, this is like Narnia, isn't it?

315
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:53.220
I mean, this is that sort of children's literature thing. where there's a magical world that you get transported to and it is essentially magic.

316
00:24:53.279 --> 00:25:03.720
You know, the idea that cats are planet hopping around the place taking people home to another planet to feed, you know, their cheetah masters, all of that sort of stuff is nonsense.

317
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:09.240
And so is the planet's breaking up because it's a metaphor for the cheetahs fighting and stuff.

318
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:11.099
You know, that's how magic works.

319
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.220
The other things that we happen to have been doing.

320
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:22.380
Well, yeah, and maybe Cold War, you know, the idea that human conflict could destroy the world is, you know, pretty much a given.

321
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.640
But the whole thing works the way that magic works.

322
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:36.299
So they're transported to another planet to another world where there are dressed up animals and we talked about that in connection with ghost light.

323
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:39.000
We haven't mentioned hail and pace yet, have we?

324
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:39.359
No.

325
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:39.720
No.

326
00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:44.279
But the idea that, you know, that it's a magical world with dressed animals.

327
00:25:44.339 --> 00:25:50.220
I think it's, it's, I love that logic for Doctor Who, and it's something that, you know, the show.

328
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:52.079
They were very pettable though, weren't they?

329
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:55.079
It does actually look like a Furby convention, doesn't it?

330
00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:56.819
I actually quite like them.

331
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:06.660
There's one that we used to call pumpkin heads. who has a little roundhead who I think he's the one he's the one who's eating like eating some carcass.

332
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.440
Some lovingly constructed horse carcass.

333
00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:11.579
I am at your command.

334
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:12.599
Oh, no, a cheetah.

335
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:13.019
Sorry.

336
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.599
Pumpkin head.

337
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:16.980
Oh, crack me up.

338
00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:20.339
Speaking of sort of pumpkin heady type things.

339
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:24.420
There is the animatronic cat. which I'm sure.

340
00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:28.799
Well, I think it's pretty ropey, but for 1989.

341
00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:30.900
I actually thought it was pretty good at the time.

342
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.720
It's little motors inside it.

343
00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:35.339
Perhaps at the time.

344
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:36.839
Now I look at it and I just laugh.

345
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:40.319
I think it keep thinking of Sabrina, the teenage witch, and that's 7 years later.

346
00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:51.180
The thing I like about it is that it gets to turn to the camera and its mouth opens and it bears its fangs and then Dominic Glynn adds a sound to it.

347
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:55.259
That looks fabulous and you could never have achieved that with a real cat.

348
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:56.700
It doesn't look real for a second.

349
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:01.079
Yeah, but just the fact that it turns to camera and looks terrifying is really good.

350
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:10.259
There's one shot later where they achieve a close-up of a kitling before it transports someone with a real cat and that's much less effective, I think.

351
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:16.259
Yeah, pretty much when they when Alan Waring went down to the workshop to see the cat, he's like, right, we need to get a real cat as well.

352
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.740
And there is on the DVD.

353
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.759
There are some like, not exactly outtakes, not bloopers, but setting up for a shot.

354
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:28.140
The shot where the master's walking into the youth centre. has got the cat over his shoulder.

355
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:33.599
And so you get Alan Waring saying to the cat's handler, okay, we'd like the cat's face to be about here.

356
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:40.559
So she puts it up on Anthony Ainley and he sort of puts his hand around it and she says to him, yeah, just put your, just put your hand behind their head, but her head there.

357
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:41.700
Don't press too hard.

358
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.339
Oh, she's a difficult bugger.

359
00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:45.359
Don't you walk?

360
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:48.180
The cat or the woman?

361
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.880
The woman the woman walks off, half to say, oh, it's a difficult bugger.

362
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.039
Was she referring to only?

363
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:56.279
Is that recorded?

364
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.619
She would have said she's a different one.

365
00:27:58.680 --> 00:27:59.759
She was referring to it.

366
00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:00.599
Oh, get her.

367
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:08.579
I will say, though, as as you know, Richard, Rod, my partner, is a huge fan of cats.

368
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.440
He has had many cats over the years.

369
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:14.640
He hates the animatronic cat in this, but not for the reasons you might think.

370
00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:19.200
He has no problem with the special effects because he's like, you know, it's Doctor Who.

371
00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:19.980
They did the best they could.

372
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.359
Now what he has a problem with is the villainising of black cats.

373
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.859
Because he has owned many black cats.

374
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:29.940
We hitting all our memes today.

375
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:39.720
He's owned many black cats and they're lovely, but he also knows they sort of end up in shelters and people don't take them because of things like this and Salem's lot.

376
00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:46.440
So the thing is, as soon as that happened in episode one, I don't think he's seen this one before because he gave up on Sylvan Sophie the 1st time around.

377
00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:55.079
But 5 minutes into episode one, he just tends to up and he never, he never relaxed throughout the rest of the story.

378
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:56.039
It was just 3 out of 10.

379
00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:03.900
So I don't, yeah, I don't think he was in a frame of mind to watch the rest of the story because he's just like, nah, nah, you're making fun of a black cat.

380
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:04.319
I'm out.

381
00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:06.299
It's an interesting take.

382
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:23.220
I think a lot of viewers had the same reaction at the time as well because one of those things that you've actually got to be either a student in the 80s or just have friends who are just like the people in the story or the people around you watching it, who are fans to get it because it's all metaphor.

383
00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:23.819
Yeah.

384
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:32.759
And in a way that when we look back on the last 3 seasons, maybe every single story was, even the ones we didn't identify as such starting off.

385
00:29:32.819 --> 00:29:36.119
We've already covered time in the Rani as being a very strong one.

386
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:43.259
Well, I think that this one is much, much more metaphorical than anything that we've done before.

387
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:44.160
Very much so.

388
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.319
It's all allegory, isn't it?

389
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:50.039
Yeah, and that just thematic richness that we've identified.

390
00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:57.599
And I think, you know, it's a strong contender for a real transition into where the show is when it comes back.

391
00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:00.119
Like, I think that this is...

392
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:01.140
Segway is really nice.

393
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:04.019
Yeah, anyway, just stylistically, it really falls into a pattern.

394
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:11.160
Well, that it's not about an alien invasion, particularly or anything like that, that it is about a concept and an idea.

395
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.700
It's not a science fiction story in any sort of real sense.

396
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.200
And it features real people, like living on a council estate.

397
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:25.079
We go up to, you know, midges flat and there's our 1st tiny little girl.

398
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:28.079
Who's later in, what is it, Emmerdale?

399
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:31.980
Emmerdale, as the as the sex symbol, bitch, vixen.

400
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:34.319
That makes me feel really old.

401
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:40.980
She's well known for doing, you know, calendars with farm animals, but not in a nice way.

402
00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.980
Yes, we do need to talk about that.

403
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:49.140
Well, there's some reality, but there's also a character called Fly, who's apparently married Darth Bay Duck.

404
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.700
Do remember that moment?

405
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:51.720
Brain dead plumber.

406
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:53.039
Yeah, he's a brain dead plumber.

407
00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:55.019
I think Padme must have just been getting stroppy.

408
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:55.920
You sort of bugger off.

409
00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.079
She's probably off with the cheetah chatty folk right now.

410
00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:00.480
Sand is so coarse.

411
00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.839
It's another metaphor.

412
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:04.619
You ask my cat.

413
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.299
My pussy.

414
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.099
She'll only use paper products.

415
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:16.500
Besides the impossible escape from the motorbike explosion, which is impossible, and you can say it lands on some sofas.

416
00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:18.420
Yeah, like how far away?

417
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.180
Like, 1000 metres away?

418
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:24.900
He teleports himself. so beautiful, magic. flies, it's cannon.

419
00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:26.039
Yeah, city of death.

420
00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:26.940
He's done it in Paris.

421
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.920
You know the original scene, don't you, Todd?

422
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:29.519
What?

423
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:31.259
They were going to kick Midge to death.

424
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:33.839
No, that's money.

425
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:35.640
That's in Monroe's original squid.

426
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:39.240
No, they're talking to him. is much more effective.

427
00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:48.779
Besides that motorbike scene, which I just roll my eyes at, I have a problem with Patterson and his gang of thugs or whatever you want to call them.

428
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:51.839
I just find a lot of those sequences really, I find embarrassing.

429
00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:53.640
You're a bit grain chill, aren't they?

430
00:31:53.700 --> 00:32:10.380
And I guess it's just at the time being at the end of high school and we had Cadet Corps and we had like sergeant people like that and I just kind of, like, no, no, every scene where he's going off and they're all there and I just cringe through it.

431
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:10.920
I just do.

432
00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:14.759
I just don't, dialogue or whatever it is, just doesn't resonate with me.

433
00:32:14.819 --> 00:32:24.539
And then you've got this gang, one of who looks like he's like the lead singer from that band wearing his hat backwards, EMF or something, you know, unbelievable.

434
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.000
Like, it's just unbelievable.

435
00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:31.619
Like I just go, yeah, I just, you know, that's the one thing that I just kind of go, well, that's so nice.

436
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:37.079
There's a slight sort of casting for prettiness that's coming in in that gang.

437
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:43.799
Yeah, and and the thing is, you look at all of them and they are all physically fit, you know, but...

438
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:48.059
You know, I don't...

439
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.779
If there was any more wind on that field, they'd all just blow away.

440
00:32:51.839 --> 00:33:01.680
There's there's no there's no muscle. don't do them And it's kind of like, but they seem to be scripted to be, if you like, a physical match for the cheetahs.

441
00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:05.220
You know, they are the analogue for the cheaters in our world.

442
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:11.819
And even the scene where they're advancing on Ace, and Sophie's giving it her all, like, you know, somebody help me.

443
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:17.339
She's selling it and then you cut back to bloody pipe cleaner patrol coming towards you.

444
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:20.519
I clean patrol.

445
00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:26.400
And, you know, I'm not, I don't want to be insulting to anyone who is fit in that way.

446
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:26.880
That's fine.

447
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:29.039
It's just, it doesn't quite match the intent.

448
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:40.140
Something I love, though, is this is kind of the unexpected end of a loose trilogy of stories, exploring ace's growth.

449
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:43.380
So in the curse of Fenrick, You know, I'm not a little girl anymore.

450
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.579
And then Ghostlight is about her confronting fears of her past.

451
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:59.579
And this kind of is about where she might go in the future because the whole her whole through line in this is if she is violent.

452
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:04.259
That will be her life forever and she will always be violent and she will lose herself.

453
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.779
And the thing is, we have seen her character.

454
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:08.099
She likes fire.

455
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:10.800
She likes explosions in the original script for this.

456
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:18.000
She puts Kara's body on a funeral pyre and burns it, and that was Ronan Monroe saying, hey, in your character outline, she likes Big Bangs.

457
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:18.960
She likes fire.

458
00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:20.340
I know she's burnt down a house.

459
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.519
And that was that was changed because they didn't want.

460
00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:29.280
I suppose they didn't want to encourage emulation of that.

461
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.260
You know, kids playing fireable.

462
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:31.739
Exactly.

463
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:41.340
But it's interesting that over the course of this season, Ace has become less violent than she was in season 25.

464
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:46.739
In Battlefield, of course, you know, she gets excited about blowing up a spaceship.

465
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.039
She blows up a wall in Fenwrick, but that's just so they can get through.

466
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.500
And when she distracts a guard in Fenrick.

467
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:54.599
It's not about going up and clobbering him from behind.

468
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:59.820
It's about drawing him away and flirting with him and being mysterious and, you know, as she says, I'm not a little girl.

469
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:03.719
In ghost light, she actually implores control.

470
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:05.099
No, don't burn the house down.

471
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.619
That's what I did and that was a mistake.

472
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.000
But then she says I would have blown it up.

473
00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:10.260
So there's still that tension there.

474
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:11.159
She could go either way.

475
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:17.579
Well, I mean, she enjoys the influence of being a cheater. like you know, she loves that.

476
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:19.739
It's exhilarating for her.

477
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.960
But that thing you say about if she embraces violence, that'll be her destiny.

478
00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:27.900
Like there's a real kind of social commentary in that.

479
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:29.340
It's those boys.

480
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:33.960
I mean, Patterson is teaching them that the way to survive is through violence.

481
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:37.320
Yeah, yeah, that's how that's how you survive.

482
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.480
That's the whole purpose of that self-defence class.

483
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:47.760
Yeah, and the boy at the beginning who refuses to, if you like, deliver the killing blow to his opponent, he's saying, well, I've already beaten him.

484
00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:48.539
He's subdued.

485
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:50.519
Why do I need to inflict more pain?

486
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:58.440
And in fact, he does get killed by the cheater and partly because of that, but also partly because he warns Ace about the cheetah.

487
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:02.760
So because he cares for other people, he doesn't survive.

488
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:14.579
You know, it's the joke that Halen Pace tell in the supermarket about outrunning the lion and the doctor says, well, that works really well, provided you don't mind losing your friend.

489
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

490
00:36:16.019 --> 00:36:21.599
And so there's a tension between this survival of the fittest thing and altruism or friendship.

491
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:25.320
I like hail and pace in this.

492
00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:28.980
I think they're really appropriately placed.

493
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:33.719
It's really, it's really opposite to the giant and perfect casting for perfect timing.

494
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:37.019
The odd thing, they were a double act of 2 straight men.

495
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:46.019
So they're really antithetical to all of the other stuff that's happening in this, but they're perfect for that side of it because this is all about dualities and opposites.

496
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:57.780
It might have been distracting stunt casting at the time, but given that they've completely fallen out of our consciousness and disappeared, you know, from the record.

497
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.340
It actually doesn't matter.

498
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:00.960
And they do work quite well together.

499
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:03.780
I think that scene with Sylvester and them is terrific.

500
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.079
It could have equally been done with Victoria Wood.

501
00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:10.800
And, I was going to say, her best mate, Julie.

502
00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:16.079
Julie Walters, because that and that would have been really fabulous, but I think we're probably a bit busy.

503
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:19.800
I kind of like the fact that they're kind of tired, middle-aged men.

504
00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:24.599
And they therefore reflect the pair of all of...

505
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:26.039
Sylvester shopping.

506
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.019
I do too.

507
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:34.019
I think with the doctor shopping, you know, doctor ever gone shopping?

508
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.179
Yeah, he ever has. silly and wonderful.

509
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.940
It's that's leading into the new series.

510
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.000
It's showing it's in the last Doctor Who story ever.

511
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:46.980
This suburban environment where we've never seen the doctor operate at all before.

512
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:56.219
I think a lot of people complain about Sylvester in episode one spooning out the cat food onto the street and hiding in that woman's front garden.

513
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.480
That's hilarious.

514
00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:58.440
Go, wait, dog.

515
00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:03.179
And she's going, tap, that old bitty keeps going. think it's hilarious.

516
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:13.920
Well, I think the dog is really funny, the wrong cat, you know, and Sophie walking away. and then just looking at him with just out of contempt and shaking her head at how stupid he is.

517
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.360
I've lived lived that.

518
00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:28.679
I spent 4 days out at Rudy Hill and Mount Drewitt hunting for my very own lost pussy, which I'm very happy to say he's now been returned to us, as it turns out, through the power of visionary prayer. seriously. lovely Vicky and her name is Vicky Deary.

519
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.860
Oh, brilliant. saw the posters and prayed and said I was compelled.

520
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:35.699
I had to go and she found her in exactly where she said the pic.

521
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.099
Now, everyone else thinks, of course, she had an erratic for 4 days.

522
00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:40.679
But the rest of us.

523
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:41.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

524
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:44.039
So no, this is very powerful story right now.

525
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:46.139
So many of us.

526
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:50.340
You know, though, really, there's a lot of Hammer horror in this as well.

527
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.980
Oh, yeah, I mean, you know, you've got...

528
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:59.460
They just don't happen to be lesbian vampires, but apart from anything else, what did one lesbian vampire say to another lesbian vampire online?

529
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:00.840
I don't know.

530
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.760
I mean, face pics or an ain't happening.

531
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:03.719
They never met.

532
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:11.219
Well, I'm very glad I don't have to use the girl from Epanema on that bit because I don't get it.

533
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:14.940
Is that part of the joke as well?

534
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.079
I didn't hear that version.

535
00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:30.239
For me, the hail and pace bit was fascinating because at the time this went out and also still a few years later, they had, they were big news and they had a weekly sketch comedy show, which no one watched that we know.

536
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:33.059
My parents watched it and I was allowed to stay up and watch it.

537
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:34.559
That's the thing with my folks.

538
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:38.280
So were happy with me watching, if you like, adult content or adult humour.

539
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.860
So long as they were there to explain anything.

540
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:42.780
And there were scientists.

541
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.059
So if it was about sex, I got a vivid explanation.

542
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:52.619
With Hale and Pace, it was like Doctor Who had suddenly stepped into another TV show.

543
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:57.840
It was like Doctor Who had stepped into a hail and pace sketch, which I absolutely loved.

544
00:39:57.900 --> 00:39:59.519
More of that next season.

545
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:02.880
Oh, wait, yes.

546
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:09.059
No, we do have another season after this now. it's not like the 90s And for that reason I always accepted it.

547
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:17.280
Like, you know, if they had been sort of main characters throughout, I think that wouldn't have worked because I've never seen them in dramatic roles.

548
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:22.260
I think Gareth Hale has done some dramatic work since, but I've never seen any of that.

549
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:29.400
But as sort of a single scene and then delivering the punchline where the doctor walks out without paying and it's like, have you forgot something?

550
00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:29.880
Money.

551
00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:30.960
No, it's not that.

552
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:32.760
And he just shakes his head and walks off.

553
00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:46.739
I actually love the bit of that scene where the camera is the Kitling's viewpoint. looking from inside the shelf at Sylvester and he points to it and then the camera rushes out at him and then it's the cat.

554
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.820
And I think there's some incredible, incredible direction in this.

555
00:40:50.880 --> 00:41:00.659
And one of my standout things that they do is when the Kitling sees someone just before transporting them.

556
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:08.219
The camera goes up on the crane, and it's initially just a neutral viewpoint.

557
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:18.179
But by the time it reaches the top of the crane, it's become the point of view shot of a cheater person during the course. of the one shot.

558
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:23.880
And the person, you know, sees it and regards the camera and runs off.

559
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.639
So it's such an incredible choice.

560
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:38.219
And then when there's that flash, we never stay on the same camera shot, like the flash when someone disappears coincides with a complete change of perspective from the point of view of the camera.

561
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.619
Because the perspective character is now gone.

562
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:42.000
Yeah, it's really clever.

563
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:44.460
Yeah, I like that direction.

564
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:49.500
Alan Waring was chosen for this specifically because he saved Greater Show in the Galaxy.

565
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:50.280
Yeah.

566
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:56.039
But with Greater Show in the Galaxy, he felt that with the problems, he might be blamed for that.

567
00:41:56.099 --> 00:42:06.360
So when he was invited back, he was delighted and immediately accepted it because he's like, you know, I liked working on it, but we didn't do everything I wanted and I thought, well, you know, that's it for Doctor Who.

568
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:07.500
For me, for Doctor Who.

569
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:11.579
And then he's asked back to do 50% more, 2 stories.

570
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.739
Can you do basically our biggie?

571
00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:23.699
And it's actually because the production team were really happy with his work because not only did he make a story in very difficult circumstances, but it also looked great.

572
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.400
Yeah, he's, I think he's the best director.

573
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:28.260
I think I've said this before of this era.

574
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:33.780
I think of the 80s, the 3 standout directors are, you know, him, Graham Harper.

575
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:37.199
And I've still got a soft spot for love at Bigford.

576
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:38.219
Oh yes, of course.

577
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:38.820
Yeah.

578
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:40.019
Love and love it.

579
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.599
Bigford just bends his arm back till it breaks off, doesn't he?

580
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:48.179
So ratings. 5000000 for the 1st episode and 89th for the week.

581
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:52.019
That's the highest rating of the season and placing of the season as well.

582
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:56.699
And then 4.8 and then 5000000 and this is the only story that hits 5000000 this season.

583
00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:01.980
It's, At least it goes out like with half decent rating.

584
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.059
Yeah, yeah, you know.

585
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:08.880
I mean, last year, the lowest rating was 4.8, you know, so, but here it's sort of like at the top of the scale.

586
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.340
And, and, and so...

587
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:18.360
But it was also being seen and not getting any publicity, but still known and talked about, and the hail and post thing certainly helped.

588
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:24.599
But at the time, we were not there yet, but it wasn't so much that the BBC wanted to kill it.

589
00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:28.679
It was what was going on within the BBC dying itself as to what it had always been.

590
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:36.360
It was still pulling in over twice in the revenue in both merchandising and overseas sales than it cost to make.

591
00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:42.780
So it wasn't actually, we've always talked about it as being Mile Michael Grade's death wish to see this gone.

592
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:44.039
Well, Michael Grade's gone.

593
00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:45.719
So we've got John Burt.

594
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:57.539
It's like a bird with expectorance, but who had very strong ideas about the BBC being all about news and everything else being made outside because that's what Tory Britton wanted to do.

595
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:58.800
Everything was made out of house.

596
00:43:58.860 --> 00:44:03.360
So, of course, it was now Doctor Who was up for grabs, and we'll get onto that because there was a lot going on.

597
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:06.300
But it wasn't, it wasn't seen as the death of the show.

598
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:07.019
They just...

599
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:08.940
I don't think they knew what to do with it.

600
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:17.400
No, they were determined that they wanted someone else to pick up all the tabs and they would just bring the money in themselves, which is a very neo Conway of seeing art.

601
00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:19.739
Funny what happens to art when you do that though.

602
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:25.320
Yeah, Peter Cregin, who was head of series and serials at the time.

603
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:35.219
He's the one who made the final decision, but it was always his perspective that it would come back in 1992 or 1993 once they'd found a new producer and a new script editor.

604
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:44.880
And we might remember that back around Trial of a Timelord, I said that Terence Dudley was willing to take over the Reigns as producer.

605
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.340
Thank God, that didn't happen.

606
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:50.099
So was Terry Nation, for God's sake.

607
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:54.119
He set up his own little company to try and do it with Jerry Davis. you imagine?

608
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:57.059
There was even talk of Verity Lambert's production.

609
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:57.840
Yeah, cinema verity.

610
00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:08.940
Cinema verity was the only one being taken for as real and it's because she's not, she wasn't in any of the publicity at the time talking about it because there were background deals going on with her to bring Pertwee back. aren't all of those?

611
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:15.539
I thought all of those discussions like with those deterioration, all of them happened like 1990, 91.

612
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:16.800
I thought that's when it was all happening.

613
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:18.059
CBS as well.

614
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:19.320
We were the obvious contender.

615
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:22.079
There's never a cancellation announcement, is there?

616
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:22.619
No, no.

617
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:23.159
Yeah, yeah.

618
00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:25.019
We were just waiting for it to come back.

619
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:26.760
The agony of it, do you remember?

620
00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:29.400
Every single month you go out and buy Doctor Who Monthly.

621
00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:29.940
Where is he there?

622
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:30.420
Is he there?

623
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.460
Didn't Sylvester sign a contract for another season?

624
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:33.599
Yes, yes, he did.

625
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:42.360
So midway through the 2nd season because I think he'd signed a contract for 2 because the BBC were wary of another Colin Baker situation where they wanted to get rid of the actor.

626
00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:43.199
Yes.

627
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:46.320
No offence, Silv, but...

628
00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:47.219
No, exactly.

629
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:57.659
And the thing is, Silv was perfectly happy to only sign 2 years because JNT came up to and said, we'd like you to do a 3rd year, and Silv says, well, you know, Peter and Patrick both said to me 3 years.

630
00:45:57.659 --> 00:46:05.159
And John said, But we'd like you to do a 3rd year and a 4th year, and if you don't do a 4th year, the show will just end with this season.

631
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:10.019
And Silv just kind of went, well, I can't be the one who is responsible for that.

632
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:25.559
But Silv also then said, right, let's talk about where this character is going and why we get a bit more arcing this season is because they were leading into stuff next season, which Cartmel and Ben Aronovich both say, look, we had written 4 scenes that we wanted to put in episodes.

633
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.980
In no way did we have. storylines or breakdowns.

634
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.380
Here are writers we were thinking about, et cetera, et cetera.

635
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.960
But yeah, so Silv had signed up for a 4th year.

636
00:46:34.019 --> 00:46:40.199
I don't think it was a um, a pay or play contract, so he didn't get paid for the following season.

637
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:46.260
Sophie hadn't signed on, but it was understood she would only do half of the next year and then be written out.

638
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:58.079
However, at this point, unlike with trial, when Terrence Dudley was sounded out as being producer, John Nathan Turner was actually offered it on the job at last.

639
00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:02.219
So, you know, he's been trying to leave for 5 years and the BBC keeps saying to him, no, you're still on doctor.

640
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:03.179
We're not offering you anything else.

641
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:05.940
It was a job in the BBC canteen to be fair.

642
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.380
It was pretty.

643
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:07.860
What was it?

644
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:10.440
It was, it was producing Bergerac.

645
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:11.280
Wow.

646
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:13.440
Which was a big show.

647
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:14.099
Yeah, exactly.

648
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:18.960
And I think, you know, in that sense, the BBC did actually acknowledge, you know what?

649
00:47:19.019 --> 00:47:24.360
We've been trying to kill this show for 5 years, but this but this guy has kept it afloat.

650
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:25.559
He can do stuff.

651
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:29.699
And the thing is, John Nathan Turner being John Nathan Turner.

652
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.219
His reaction was, ah, Bergerac.

653
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:33.960
Set in Jersey with John Nettles.

654
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:36.300
Don't particularly like John Nettles.

655
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:37.920
So, and I don't particularly like Jersey.

656
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:43.980
So I'll do it if we can get rid of John Nagels and move it out of Jersey.

657
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:49.739
He came back and said that to Andrew Carp, they're like, oh, they offered me this, but I'm staying on Doctor Who.

658
00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:56.280
And Andrew Cumpton was like years later he said to me, probably should have gone to Jersey and Andrew's like, yes, you should have, because you would have taken me with you.

659
00:47:57.059 --> 00:48:06.900
Because Cartmel was kind of sounding out either Colin Brake, who went on to write Doctor Who novels or Ben Aronovich as his possible successor.

660
00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:10.739
Ben Aronovich would never have got the script.

661
00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:11.760
No, he would have lost them.

662
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:13.739
But it is in the wash with his son.

663
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:18.239
It's interesting how he's standing out people because something that we commented about so often.

664
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:22.079
Like, suddenly it's like, 0 my goodness, who's going to come in and actually script edit, like we're suddenly at this point.

665
00:48:22.139 --> 00:48:23.940
And succession planning.

666
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.619
What I can't will go on to do.

667
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.360
Did he script anything else of significance?

668
00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:29.159
He went on to casualty after this.

669
00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:31.199
Which was quite a big thing.

670
00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:31.980
And that was the thing.

671
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:42.300
The doctor production office stayed open, I believe, for a year after survival went out with JNT there and a skeleton staff.

672
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:48.300
And a few months after Doctor Who wasn't cancelled, but nobody knew what was happening.

673
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:52.019
That's when Cartmel got the offer of casualty and he went to JNT and said, look, what should I do?

674
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.840
And JNT said, you've got to work. and it's a good opportunity for you.

675
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:56.099
Go, do it.

676
00:48:56.219 --> 00:49:02.940
You know, if Doctor Who comes up will figure something out, but at that point, even JNT, like, doesn't look good.

677
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:19.559
They must have had some idea that this was a possible ending because the whole of survival is kind of lyrical and poetic and the dialogue is not realistic and you do have that long final scene where the doctor's absent, then Sophie becomes the doctor.

678
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:24.420
You know, she gets her his hat and his umbrella.

679
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:26.820
And then finally the doctor comes back.

680
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:32.099
You know, there's closure, she's decided the TARDIS is her home and not pair of ale.

681
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:33.840
And then they walk off arm in arm.

682
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:41.519
Which was meant to be shot against a sunset, wearing had timed that so carefully that that, the thing for tea.

683
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:43.199
So they were aware that was coming up.

684
00:49:43.260 --> 00:49:44.940
It wasn't a complete afterthought.

685
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.940
But because the makeup lady who I won't mention.

686
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.599
Spent so much time faffing around with Lisa Bowman's hair.

687
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.659
But yeah, that's why that thing just went on so long.

688
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:55.920
And they were so tight for time.

689
00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:59.099
They were getting temperatures of over 40 degrees, 110.

690
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:03.840
Yeah, they were expecting it to be warm and it was the same sand pit they shot, greater show in.

691
00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:07.980
But it was actually freakishly warm for an English summer.

692
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:17.039
So Lisa Bowman's cheetah person head, if you like, was a hero, cheetah person head, but then you had a whole bunch of less well fitted ones, which were twice.

693
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:18.300
They were mostly made of asbestos.

694
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.960
Yeah, they were twice the weight and twice as heavy.

695
00:50:22.019 --> 00:50:28.860
So Lisa Bowman is kind of like, it was hot for me, but then you've got all these extras over here getting paid tuppence.

696
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.579
With one famous girl said, that's it.

697
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.840
I'm buggering off and left, walked off the set. pull a costume off.

698
00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:39.480
We just watched Sylvester McCoy interviewed about that.

699
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:53.880
And his fanciful recollection of it was that the actor in question didn't remember that the only thing she was wearing under the costume was a tiny G string and then she walked off into the sunset with nothing on but a G string.

700
00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:56.699
And I think that that sounds fairly implausible.

701
00:50:56.760 --> 00:51:00.119
Sylvester, that's how Sylvester likes to remember it.

702
00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:01.619
Is that a Doctor Who fact?

703
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:05.460
Like, like the asbestos headset.

704
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:05.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

705
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:09.659
I look forward to reading about this. on Twitter or whatever, very soon.

706
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:10.800
Definitively true.

707
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:19.559
So, so, um, so the cheetah women of survival, artist Sylvester McCoy as the cyberman in Silver Nemesis, artist.

708
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:22.019
Oh, my goodness.

709
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:38.699
We wish, but what Nathan's saying is really lovely and really true, and I've forgotten that, even though I've just watched it again, that yes, Ace becomes the Romana or the doctor for that little moment, which is kind of like presaging rose and how she has more than a quality in the 1st story coming.

710
00:51:38.699 --> 00:51:43.619
Well, I think she becomes the doctor because she has to learn not to use violence to solve the problem, you know.

711
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.800
And so she's, when she says...

712
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:49.079
And they both have the same struggle, both a doctor and ace.

713
00:51:49.380 --> 00:51:49.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

714
00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:51.119
When she's saying please help me.

715
00:51:51.179 --> 00:51:55.320
It's not like Ace couldn't beat the crap out of all of those skinny, you know, guys.

716
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:58.380
It's that she doesn't want to find. help me because I can't find.

717
00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:04.920
We see it as being casting because that's all you could get in the 80s because nobody went to the gym in the late 80s.

718
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:06.119
But that's right.

719
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:09.719
No, maybe it was, well, yes, maybe there's just a bit of serendipity, like everything else.

720
00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:14.460
Well, I think also that's the look that denoted fitness in the time.

721
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:23.460
You know, the jogging craze, milk causes jogging and everyone knows that jogging gives you heart attacks, but, you know, that was the typical look.

722
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:32.280
Now, like the sort of desire look now that you see on all the of the men's fitness magazines is the Chris Hemsworth Jason Momoa model.

723
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:34.320
Much, much like us here on this podcast.

724
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.380
Especially after eating this wonderful cake.

725
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:40.920
I'm Jason Mimosa. that a drink?

726
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:46.920
Jason Momoa is the new Aquaman and Carl Drago from Game of Thrones.

727
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:49.079
And he was in Stargate Atlantis.

728
00:52:49.139 --> 00:52:52.920
I have seen a picture graph of the Aquaman thing.

729
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:56.760
I just thought he was another Kardashian.

730
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:00.840
All that hair.

731
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:02.039
Pouting.

732
00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:07.079
Because we didn't have the internet, and we only had like certain sources of information about the show.

733
00:53:07.139 --> 00:53:12.420
Throughout this entire season, I was very worried that Ace was going to be killed off, right?

734
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.980
Not like now we sort of know when actors are leaving and all that sort of thing, so you know that something's going to happen.

735
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:31.139
So I actually was expecting, in this final episode, one of the 2 main characters possibly to die, either be the doctor or A. So when we have the motorcycle thing or when she's going to go on it, I was having heart palpitations that, you know, this is it, you know?

736
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.260
It's just very interesting, like very different from now.

737
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:38.099
Yeah, even knowing now that that doesn't happen.

738
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:41.400
You get that sense from those final scenes.

739
00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:43.139
It is particularly doom laden.

740
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.079
And yeah, the motorcycle stunt is terrible.

741
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:53.340
And of course, they lost the services of tip tipping because they used stunt driver Eddie Kidd, who wasn't a member, I think, of equity.

742
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:57.179
And Tip said, you know, this isn't properly covered by insurance.

743
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:59.639
I am not just the stunt guy, I'm the stunt arranger.

744
00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:01.860
And he did it, but then he walked off.

745
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:06.599
He said, I'll do this one, so you get the shot, but that's my end with the show.

746
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:08.579
And of course, he didn't live long after this.

747
00:54:08.699 --> 00:54:10.199
A few years later, he died doing a stunt.

748
00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:13.139
Due to a gypsy curse from JNT.

749
00:54:13.619 --> 00:54:15.719
He's in aliens.

750
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:18.300
And he is in Batman.

751
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:21.239
It was a parachute accident that tore him off.

752
00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:23.460
Was it after it was it wasn't during the Batman?

753
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:24.539
No, no.

754
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:29.579
I think it was around 1992 on like a rescue 911 style show.

755
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:35.579
So, yeah, he was doing a reenactment of a parachute accident and his shoot, failed to deploy.

756
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:43.679
But yeah, there is a certain feeling of doom there and there's the wonderful confrontation between Sylvan Anthony.

757
00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:47.460
And I think of all the doctors that Anthony's worked with.

758
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:49.860
He has actually has the best chemistry with silv.

759
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:54.780
We get that wonderful quiet scene with them in the ruins talking about what the planet's like.

760
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:58.380
And neither of them are shouting at each other or snarling.

761
00:54:58.619 --> 00:55:08.699
And so, you know, with Davidson, Davidson, of course, did the Breathy shouty thing and Ainley did the sort of snarling because the directors were always telling him to ham it up with Colin.

762
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:14.159
He didn't get much of a fair goat with Colin, really, because Kate was there and then in Ultimate though, he doesn't get too much.

763
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:18.119
So he gets some real stuff too, no pun intended. sink his teeth into.

764
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:19.320
Can I ask a question?

765
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:25.440
So at the end of this, like they're fighting on that mat and the doctor goes, if we fight like animals with dialogue animals.

766
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:31.079
And then he, like, he raises that bone or whatever the skull is to either bash the master, whatever.

767
00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:34.559
And then he gets transported back to the Tartars.

768
00:55:34.619 --> 00:55:37.199
Now I've always gone, well, why?

769
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:43.679
Oh, well, I think at that point he's got the yellow eyes because he's being drawn into fighting.

770
00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:49.320
Remember violence on that planet causes you to be possessed by the planet?

771
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.679
And so because he's got the yellow eyes, he can transport himself home.

772
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:54.179
But don't you have to be running?

773
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:55.800
Doesn't somebody have to have looped you?

774
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:57.179
No, no, no, no.

775
00:55:57.239 --> 00:55:57.719
No.

776
00:55:57.780 --> 00:56:01.320
So he loops Midge because Midge is turning into a wild animal.

777
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:04.500
So it's so he can piggyback on Midge if you like.

778
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:06.059
Well, it's not just been done before.

779
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:09.719
Like when Kara or somebody else comes, they're going hunting.

780
00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:12.119
Yeah, no, I think that's okay.

781
00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:16.440
I think that sort of weird music video clip scene.

782
00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:23.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is like massively over kind of produced with all of those sort of video effects and stuff.

783
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:37.260
I think it works terrifically well because what it does is it takes an instance of violence where the doctor and the master are trying physically to kill one another and it makes it real.

784
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:39.539
Like it's a metaphor for that struggle.

785
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:44.400
And he rejects that struggle, which just makes it right that he should leave that scene.

786
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:48.119
Yeah, and and also, you know, he gets teleported home.

787
00:56:48.179 --> 00:56:53.159
He gets teleported to the TARDIS, but also, interestingly, he gets teleported to a suburban street in London.

788
00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:57.539
Yeah, which he we haven't seen since Hand of Fear, with the Tartar sonor.

789
00:56:57.659 --> 00:56:59.880
Suburban Street Corner. right.

790
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah, no we really haven't.

791
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:07.619
But also, nice parallel with like the new series where we're often in suburban streets in London.

792
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:19.139
So what you were saying before, Nathan, about, you know, this moving towards what we see in the new series, it very much is like present day, thematic issues and locate.

793
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:28.860
And yeah, Russell T. Davies has gone on record as saying, yeah, what Andrew Cartmel and Silv and Sophie and JNT were doing in the last few years, that has set up what we're doing now.

794
00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:38.460
And also, too, with incidental music, like the themes running through the whole episodes and building and, you know, that sort of thing, which is what Murray Gold does.

795
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:40.079
Yeah.

796
00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:50.579
But yeah, that that walk off at the end, I believe that the production team knew, there might be another hiatus is what they were told.

797
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:52.559
They didn't tell the actors that for several months.

798
00:57:52.619 --> 00:58:01.079
So that scene was seen as, this is our season finale, like Doctor Who Are You was meant to be for season 25.

799
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:12.539
It's kind of this is a nice moment to close out the season, but it was also seen as, look, if we're away for a while, this tells the audience that our characters are still out having adventures and what have you.

800
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:17.519
And it, look, I 1st watched this, I think, around 9293.

801
00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:18.659
It was a few years later.

802
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:24.480
So we're talking 15 years ago, 25 years ago.

803
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:26.219
Ah, you forgot the 90s.

804
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:29.219
We all did. 25 years ago.

805
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:32.280
I watched this and still when I watch it now.

806
00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:34.619
I have a little cry at the end of that bit.

807
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:39.539
Not just because I know what it represents because, of course, we have the new series now and we know it's back.

808
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:50.400
But because we've had all this stuff about the series telling us again that the doctor should stand against violence, even if he uses it occasionally, he comes to his senses and that saves him.

809
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:55.019
But also it tells us what their story is about.

810
00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:57.420
It's about going off and seeing fabulous places.

811
00:58:57.480 --> 00:58:58.800
It's about fighting injustice.

812
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.460
And it's also about having cups of tea because this is British, god damn it.

813
00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:04.679
But it's also that small beautiful things.

814
00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:05.519
Do you know what I mean?

815
00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:07.440
It's Sylvester's well-repared meal.

816
00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:12.539
And of course, you know, no one ever has a well-prepared meal in the Eric's Awood era.

817
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:22.800
But here we do actually have just real proper domestic things, you know, going to the pub, seeing people in the street, you know, kicking a football around the top of Horsenden Hill.

818
00:59:22.860 --> 00:59:25.320
Like this is really the 1st story set.

819
00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:30.239
It's still kind of the TV real world, but it is set in the real world.

820
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:37.079
It's like Doctor Who finally, for the 1st time, is set in the actual present day in an actual real place.

821
00:59:37.139 --> 00:59:42.059
Well, Retardis hasn't been seen in present day London since Attack of the Cybermen, has it?

822
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:43.440
Yeah, think you're right.

823
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:48.000
So we've had and then hand a few in the streets, if everyone's going, check, check, check, check.

824
00:59:48.059 --> 00:59:51.480
Very briefly in Sylvan Nemesis, but not in any meaningful sort of way.

825
00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:54.300
Like, it doesn't interact with the culture, like it does.

826
00:59:54.300 --> 00:59:56.219
Is it on a London street?

827
00:59:56.219 --> 00:59:56.940
Not in London, though.

828
00:59:56.940 --> 00:59:58.019
It's in the Windsor.

829
00:59:58.139 --> 00:59:58.980
Yeah, so known.

830
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:00.900
We haven't been in London since...

831
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:01.679
No, you're quite right.

832
01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:02.219
Quite right.

833
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:04.980
Which was also the beginning of something that should have been.

834
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:06.719
I pretend that twin dilemma never happened.

835
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:10.320
And if you do that, then Collins era starts off really well.

836
01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:12.840
I love episode one of Attack at the side.

837
01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:15.179
I never thought I'd hear myself saying that.

838
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:16.320
I think he's great in that.

839
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:19.019
And I think Sylv and Sophie are at their best in this.

840
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:19.739
Yeah.

841
01:00:19.739 --> 01:00:26.159
One of the things that I've missed in the last few years of the Moffat era is London.

842
01:00:26.219 --> 01:00:27.539
It hasn't been enough London.

843
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:28.019
Yeah.

844
01:00:28.019 --> 01:00:33.480
Or families or, you know, human beings with feelings.

845
01:00:33.539 --> 01:00:34.380
Not enough mums.

846
01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:35.760
Yeah, a lot of angst.

847
01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:39.480
The producers I blame, you know.

848
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:46.019
Sending out all these alien scripts all times of the day, but it's us fans sitting around who have to deal with it.

849
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:48.659
It's us fans who have to watch it, but do they spare any thought?

850
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:50.820
Do they spare any thought for the casting decisions?

851
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:51.239
No.

852
01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:53.219
We're the ones who have to deal with.

853
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:55.260
Dear listener, don't bother going to conventions.

854
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:55.920
Just listen to us.

855
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:57.420
So you say.

856
01:00:57.719 --> 01:01:02.460
It's going to be a few sad mums after this and survival of the death toll.

857
01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:05.159
Sorry, I just ended on that down, are you?

858
01:01:06.539 --> 01:01:10.199
Okay, Jenny Laird awards for puzzling creative choice.

859
01:01:10.260 --> 01:01:13.079
This is another difficult one for me, so I'm going to ask if anyone wants to go first.

860
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:14.519
I've got one.

861
01:01:14.579 --> 01:01:15.119
Okay.

862
01:01:15.179 --> 01:01:22.860
It's really minor because this season's so great and I don't want to wail on Kev McCulloch again. leave him for one of you three.

863
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:29.340
I think it's an odd decision in this story to make Julian Holloway's character a sort of army guy.

864
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.019
Because he was cast as a cop.

865
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:37.500
Yeah, the original script has him as a cop and heaps of the dialogue doesn't make sense if he's not a cop.

866
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:45.599
So all of that stuff in episode one about, you know, we, the police let you off with a warning or was originally we let you off with a warning.

867
01:01:45.659 --> 01:01:48.300
You know, he seems to know that she's disappeared.

868
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.719
He knows that her mother is listed her as a missing person.

869
01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:55.860
It just doesn't, like, I'm not quite sure what the army thing is.

870
01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:04.980
And particularly since, like, presumably they wanted to make his character a sort of symbol of coercive violence.

871
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:08.699
But I'm sure a police uniform would do that just as well.

872
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:11.159
And would have also gone back to an earthly child.

873
01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:12.300
Yeah, yeah.

874
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:24.360
Yeah, the only reason I can think of is, you know, they've gotten in trouble for turning police into villains before, but army officers. fine.

875
01:02:24.420 --> 01:02:29.820
No one minded the police shooting up all of those people in Resurrection of the Daleks episode one.

876
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:31.320
No, that's true, actually.

877
01:02:31.380 --> 01:02:32.219
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

878
01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:33.420
I was thinking back to autons.

879
01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:37.860
But no, I never knew that he was meant to be a police sergeant and it makes a lot more sense.

880
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:38.400
You're right.

881
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:39.420
Yeah.

882
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:42.599
Oh, look, I'm just gonna be shooting fish in a barrel here.

883
01:02:42.659 --> 01:02:43.380
Give it to Kev.

884
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:57.360
It's a joint award for it's a joint award for the director, non-direction of battlefield, which I think is just appalling in so many instances, especially action sequences and long shots and driving of cars.

885
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:09.000
That is then also compounded with Kiff McCulloch's crap music throughout the entire, all of those sequences just doesn't even add a single bit to the story.

886
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:10.019
It's just a boarding.

887
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:11.940
So they get my genuine award.

888
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:16.739
Richard Sorry, Richard, in case I...

889
01:03:16.739 --> 01:03:18.239
Please dig in the night some more.

890
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:19.380
Todd has said nothing.

891
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:25.500
I can disagree with on any level. on this podcast so that, you know, very seldom does.

892
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:30.300
But mine is actually, speaking Murray gold, you can have too much of a good thing.

893
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:34.019
Get a bit brass finger after too much gold fingering.

894
01:03:34.139 --> 01:03:41.280
And I've got to say, I've got to say that the lovely Dominic Glynn, as skilled and talented and varied as he is, at Nick and other people's scores.

895
01:03:41.340 --> 01:03:45.840
There's a whole lot of the Firebird in his work, especially in this one.

896
01:03:45.900 --> 01:03:48.539
If you go back to your Russians.

897
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:52.440
But he insists on telling us exactly how we're supposed to be feeling at this point.

898
01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:56.219
And he loves the films of Hitchcock, and he certainly loves Wells.

899
01:03:56.280 --> 01:04:03.900
So, yes, with happiness patrol, even though I love the score, but it's also to Marquez as well, for Ghost Light, perhaps even more so.

900
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:13.079
Composers at this time were looking at, there was a whole thing in cinema, in cinema and composing in the 80s and universities like, you know, about the emotional content of work.

901
01:04:13.139 --> 01:04:15.420
But stop telling us how to feel.

902
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:20.400
Just give us, go back and actually watch these film wires and you'll see what they did with the scoring. was a lot more subtle.

903
01:04:20.699 --> 01:04:23.460
Isn't that contentious and bitchy?

904
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:25.500
That's what we're here for. right.

905
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:29.340
So my puzzling creative choice.

906
01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:38.159
It could be Keff and Michael, but I think Pointing at Todd and indeed myself.

907
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:39.599
What are you trying to say?

908
01:04:39.659 --> 01:04:41.099
It could be.

909
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:44.639
The moving finger points too.

910
01:04:44.699 --> 01:04:50.639
It could be Keffen Michael, but I'm going to go with something really nitpicky and specific and it's something I mentioned before.

911
01:04:52.860 --> 01:04:53.219
Yes.

912
01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:56.219
No, it's I love Sylvester.

913
01:04:56.280 --> 01:04:56.820
Yes.

914
01:04:56.820 --> 01:05:02.039
And there are very few moments in his era that I can point to where I think he does a poor job.

915
01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:07.380
But this is one of them, and I think it's actually the worst delivery of a line he ever does.

916
01:05:08.099 --> 01:05:10.139
Morgain!

917
01:05:10.139 --> 01:05:13.260
If they're dead. dead.

918
01:05:13.739 --> 01:05:15.960
It's like he's in the room.

919
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:19.500
It's like, what emotion are you going for there?

920
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:21.300
have no idea what's happening.

921
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:23.880
I'm so glad you reminded me that.

922
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:30.420
Because I do agree that's another one of his inability to sort of shout, et cetera.

923
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:36.659
But to me, the director should be stepping in insane, saying, okay, can we have another?

924
01:05:36.659 --> 01:05:37.440
Give it another go.

925
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:39.719
That is her director's job after all, isn't it?

926
01:05:39.780 --> 01:05:40.739
Could we have a good version?

927
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:43.380
Yeah.

928
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:54.599
Sylvester was always struggling to find his tone, but I think that's a kind of nice mirror on the doctor himself and try and we get that with survival battling against his instincts for because he knows he's right.

929
01:05:54.659 --> 01:06:09.300
It's very difficult for people who are confirmed in their belief that they're right to be able to argue with any semblance of apparent respect as we're seeing right now in the Australian electoral blah that we're all still going through.

930
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:12.900
All right, pics of the week.

931
01:06:13.019 --> 01:06:17.880
Well, I kind of want to pick an up and coming new podcast called New To Who.

932
01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:19.320
Have you heard this, Richard?

933
01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:20.159
No, not at all.

934
01:06:20.219 --> 01:06:20.639
What's that?

935
01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:26.099
Yes, another bloody Doctor Who podcast.com.

936
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:27.300
We don't know her.

937
01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:29.400
And what are they doing?

938
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:30.539
Yeah, what do they do?

939
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:34.320
I have actually picked them before I mostly pick them again just to annoy Richard today.

940
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:40.139
So they're a few episodes in now, their most recent episode.

941
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:44.219
Oh, the one that Paul Cornell can't apparently go into the bathroom without having on.

942
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.260
I need to do that one.

943
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:46.619
Yes.

944
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:47.400
Yes.

945
01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:52.980
So apparently it's ably assisting all functions required for a fan.

946
01:06:53.340 --> 01:06:55.019
A modern fan.

947
01:06:55.139 --> 01:06:55.980
I don't know about that.

948
01:06:56.039 --> 01:07:00.059
But at the very least, it is actually good. really good.

949
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:04.380
And they have the advantage of being able to pick just good Doctor Who stories.

950
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:09.900
Not doing everybody. whose stupid idea was to be every Doctor Who story in order.

951
01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:16.260
Sorry, are they picking stories for people who want to drop into doctors?

952
01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:25.500
Yeah, so the idea is in theory that if you're a fan of the new series, these are good stories and kind of representative stories for you to watch.

953
01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:28.260
And so they tend to be only 4 episodes.

954
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:30.300
There's no arc stories or anything like that.

955
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:34.679
But they have chosen, you know, stories from all over.

956
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:37.260
So they've done, you know, like an unearthly child.

957
01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:42.780
Their most recent episode is on Tomb of the Cybermen at the time of our recording.

958
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:44.340
Yeah, they've done remembrance, for instance.

959
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:45.900
Yeah, yeah.

960
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:48.539
Yeah, I've heard. that the twin dilemma's coming up.

961
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:49.260
It is.

962
01:07:49.260 --> 01:07:52.079
The savages.

963
01:07:52.139 --> 01:07:54.119
Actually, the savages...

964
01:07:54.179 --> 01:07:55.440
And the massacre.

965
01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:56.159
The massacre.

966
01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.980
The celestial toy maker.

967
01:07:59.039 --> 01:07:59.579
Exactly.

968
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:01.440
All 15 episodes.

969
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:04.679
So that's my pick of the week.

970
01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:05.400
Excellent.

971
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:10.260
I would like to pick something slightly related to this episode, but not quite about this episode.

972
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:13.920
Dominic Glynn has recently released the happiness patrol remixes.

973
01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:14.699
Ooh.

974
01:08:14.699 --> 01:08:17.340
And so it's about 30 minutes long.

975
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:18.539
You can get it on iTunes.

976
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:20.520
And yeah, it's still using the same music.

977
01:08:20.579 --> 01:08:25.800
I think he may have even gone back to his original files and he's just been updating it from there.

978
01:08:25.859 --> 01:08:31.260
So yeah, and it was a great score to begin with, but this kind of plays with it in the harmonica music and what have you.

979
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:34.800
So yeah, Dominic Glynn's Happiness Patrol remixes is my pick.

980
01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:45.600
My pick of the wink is the Blu-ray of these movies that are called The Hobbit, because it's got a certain actor in there and a couple of them, and I really like his performance.

981
01:08:45.659 --> 01:08:49.319
Much better in the extended versions than they were in the cinema versions.

982
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:49.800
Yeah?

983
01:08:49.859 --> 01:08:50.880
Whatever.

984
01:08:50.939 --> 01:08:56.039
I think it's, I just have a warm spot for Sylvester in them, and I think he does a great job.

985
01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:57.600
Oh, is Sylvester McCoy in the Hobbit?

986
01:08:57.659 --> 01:08:58.199
didn't realise.

987
01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:59.279
I've never heard of that.

988
01:08:59.819 --> 01:09:04.560
It's almost as if he doesn't mention it every time he opens his mouth.

989
01:09:04.619 --> 01:09:07.979
You can paint me later soon. you later.

990
01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:09.359
Oh dear.

991
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:10.979
Yeah, they are terrible, aren't they?

992
01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:13.800
More like just to be a total fanboy.

993
01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:22.739
I think the only new thing that I've been enjoying this this year are the Titan comics of the ninth doctor and the 12th doctor ones.

994
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:27.779
They're really good story arcing and actually really nicely done. and very true to the feeling of the of the seasons.

995
01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:31.979
They did a Tom one and the pertly one was very good because Cornell wrote it, of course.

996
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:35.939
But yeah, I really do like the Titan comic ones, but I would certainly go for music.

997
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:49.560
I would actually go back and listen to Sam Waxman, listen to some Bernard Herman scores or any of the 40s film wise, Waxman, especially if you like some of the scoring for this season, then go back to some of the great film noir composers. on YouTube.

998
01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:53.880
You just listen to it, but you can really hear where, especially Dominic Glenn are coming, is coming from.

999
01:09:54.300 --> 01:09:57.720
And Marigold has left now, hasn't he?

1000
01:09:57.779 --> 01:09:58.859
We're not, we're not saying.

1001
01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:00.600
I don't think any announcement has been...

1002
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:04.380
No, but my guess is that he will do the Christmas special and that would be the end.

1003
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:07.500
Well, I have nothing awful to say about him until after he's gone, then.

1004
01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:12.000
But really if you just want to go back and watch any old film, you'll hear him again.

1005
01:10:12.359 --> 01:10:14.159
Said that with love.

1006
01:10:32.220 --> 01:10:37.859
Well, dear listener, that is the end of the classic series of Doctor Who, the flight for Entirety.

1007
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:41.399
We will be back next week with a Sylvester Retrospective.

1008
01:10:41.460 --> 01:10:43.560
We will be covering the telly movie.

1009
01:10:43.619 --> 01:10:44.939
A bit of housekeeping.

1010
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:53.279
I know where we are a few commentaries, classic commentaries yet to be recorded for various doctors.

1011
01:10:53.340 --> 01:10:56.399
Next week we're going to give you the nominations for our silver commentaries.

1012
01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:57.479
So what's happening is this.

1013
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:01.380
After we recorded season 25, Richard had a holiday, of course.

1014
01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:18.359
And now Nathan's about to go on holiday, which means that pretty much where we've come back from our break and we're going to have an uninterrupted run through to the telly movie and a classic series overall retrospective as well as our silver retrospective.

1015
01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:21.180
And then we'll be taking a bit of a break till the new series.

1016
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:33.060
But occasionally in that time where we can fit them in, we will be releasing the commentaries for Enlightenment, Revelation of the Daleks, and whatever the silver one will be, and we will be back with the new series sometime in the new year.

1017
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:36.060
A lot of people have been asking, so that is the final confirmation.

1018
01:11:36.119 --> 01:11:44.699
But yeah, we are going to take a bit of a break to simulate the 16 year break, Doctor Who had for television, but not quite as long.

1019
01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:59.279
So, uh, until then, you can find us online at flight through entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter, over on Bondfinger, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfinger casts on Twitter.

1020
01:11:59.340 --> 01:12:03.899
Until next time, may none of your cats turn you into meals for cheaters.

1021
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:05.340
Somewhere else the tea is getting cold.

1022
01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:06.779
Thank you very much for listening, good night.

1023
01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:07.439
Good night.

1024
01:12:07.500 --> 01:12:08.340
See you soon.

1025
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:09.060
Good everyone.

1026
01:12:25.140 --> 01:12:31.020
That was Flat Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1027
01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:34.439
Beam arrangement by Cameron Lamb, logo designed by Anthony Wells.

1028
01:12:35.460 --> 01:12:40.800
This episode, completely superfluous, was recorded on October the 7th, 2017.

1029
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:43.439
The next episode will be released on November 12th.

1030
01:12:47.279 --> 01:12:48.899
Wanted.

1031
01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:50.760
One house sitter for perivale.

1032
01:12:50.819 --> 01:12:54.359
Must like cats, horses, and extreme body modification.

1033
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.560
Survival, survival, 7th of October.

1034
01:13:04.619 --> 01:13:05.699
I think.

1035
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:06.539
Is it?

1036
01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:07.920
Yes, all day.

1037
01:13:07.979 --> 01:13:08.460
Right.

1038
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:09.180
Okay.

1039
01:13:11.220 --> 01:13:13.979
Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, Nathan.

1040
01:13:14.039 --> 01:13:18.060
Red, leather, yellow, leather, red, leather, yellow, I'll see.

1041
01:13:18.119 --> 01:13:18.899
I'm not ready.

1042
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:20.579
I'm just going to stuff that up.