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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:00:18

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Hello, dear listeners and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who shoves ferrets down your trousers.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm Todd.

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Richard for this one.

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Ah, hooray.

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And we've made it to the end of another doctor and he's the last doctor for a while.

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It's the Sylvester McCoy retrospective.

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Yay!

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I've been around.

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What did I say, guys?

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I'm going crazy, oh.

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Oh, heaven help me.

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Because he didn't sound like Kirth McCullen.

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On that note, Richard.

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Snob marry a void.

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Right in there.

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Not even a little bit of warm water in the bath.

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Not straight in.

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Dominic Glynn, Mark Ayers, or Kef McCulloch?

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It's so easy, isn't it?

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I'd like to actually see Dominic Glynn and Mark is in a pillow fight, stripped down, but jumping around on the bed with Keth McCulloch with the CO2 cannister, and he can just pour that down his own throat.

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But I am seeing a whole kind of Bill Murray walking in going, yep, this is definitely lost in translation for Doctor Who.

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Who would you snog?

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Yeah, no, no, I'm sorry, that's the best I could do on that one.

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That's fine.

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You know, you never quite answer them, but I want to, you know, all really good.

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But Marcus was, you know, cut his jib nicely in his day, so I think him doing a Tom Cruise jumping up and down as a sort of lost in translation Japanese hotel room scene would work really well.

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I think he's the cuddly one.

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I think you probably want to marry him.

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Dominic.

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You can have him.

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It's more of a night of passion.

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Yeah, I'm happy to rent them, so...

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Excellent.

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Yeah, I agree with Nathan.

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So, Brendan.

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Yes.

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Sorry.

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I just have to do this one.

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As an old man again.

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Oh, am I that cliche?

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Small Mario Void, the Candyman, the ancient one or the Destroyer.

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So just a bit then.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Look, I would look, I'd have to snog the candy man, because, you know, it tastes really nice.

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I think that's filthy, but I'm not sure why.

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And, you know, you couldn't marry the Candyman because every time you come home, every... time do you call this?

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Marry, I'd have to marry the destroyer because it's Marok bloody Anton under there.

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Which means I'm avoiding the ancient one because he's a bit sludgy.

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It's a she too.

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Oh, she.

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I beg your pardon, she was a lady person.

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No, she's a bit sludgy.

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Needs a cream for that.

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Sorry.

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Nathan.

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Snug Mario void.

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Lady Painfort, Helen A, or more gain of the Fay.

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He always gets the best words.

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I have to be kind because he may not be kind later when I start talking about a certain season.

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Well, I'd avoid Helen A because she kills half a 1000000 people in that entire story.

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Including men wearing pink triangles, you know?

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Yeah, she's well and truly worth keeping away from.

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So it's a question.

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I think that I would have to snog Lady Payne for it because she's so crazy. she's probably contact with her is probably best kept to a minimum. 400 and something year old teeth, though.

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But I'd be totally happy to marry Gene Marsh, you know, Pert, we did and look how that turned out.

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Excellent.

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Right.

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Well, I might do Snog Mary avoid myself.

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Time in the Rani Paradise Towers, and Joshua the Bannerman.

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So I would definitely snog time the Rani.

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Because it initially has brightness and colour and pizzazz, but then you just lose all interest.

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I'm avoiding Paradise Towers because it's just awful.

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And thus of the three, I'm actually going to marry Delta Vannerman because there are actually things that I actually like in Delta Vannerman.

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Despite... much that I don't like.

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And so, yeah, there you go.

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That's my.

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Have we talked about your Delta and the Bannerman history on the podcast?

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Yes, you've mentioned it many times, then we're not going...

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We are not going there at this point because I'm not ready to talk about it.

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We are going to hear it from your mouth at some point, yes?

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Yes.

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Good.

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No other parts.

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Yes, very much so.

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All right, so here we are at the end of the era.

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And so what do we think of these 3 years of Sorghast?

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What have you got out of it?

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What's new for you?

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When I was a little boy in the 1970s?

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I know.

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Used to take ¢10 piece and go to the corner shop.

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Sometimes even before school because I was that lower middle class.

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Sophie Aldred.

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And you could you could get something called a mixed bag of lollies.

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And within them, you didn't pay much for them.

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You didn't have high expectations, and a lot of it was really just sweet and colourful, but some of them were gobstoppingly brilliant.

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I think I'll just park that there.

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Because that's what it's been like for me.

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I think it's an extraordinary Renaissance, and it takes a while to kick in for them to work out what they're doing.

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But the show under Eric Saywood, was a bit of a grind, creatively, you know, just kind of, It varied between dull and horrific, I think.

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And suddenly someone new comes along, solves the problem that Doctor Who had had all throughout the 70s and early 80s, which was getting people to write for the program.

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I think the 70s had like a reliable stable of people who could produce a story each season.

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But it was always a bit tight, I think.

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And I think Andrew Cartmel is the 1st person to come along and just find all of these young writers.

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Fresh new, interesting people.

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Yeah, so there's only Pip and Jane Baker in the entire era who've written for the program before.

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And so they get people who have a sort of memory of Doctor Who, but none of them write about space corridors and none of them write, you know, be, you know, like just big dull gun battles.

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There's the odd big dull gun battle.

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I'm looking at you battlefield, but basically it's taking the show in directions that had never gone before like the recent past.

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You know, there's a lot more stuff set on earth.

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It's feminism.

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Yeah, it's so much more interesting than it's been for such a long time.

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Politics.

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Okay, we did see Mind of Evil.

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I think I think that's a really good thing.

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It's so much more cutting edge and pushing boundaries and going in new directions.

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I mean, if we go a long way back to, like, perhaps Barry Letts with all the ecological stuff in the 1970s, where it was referencing stuff that was going on.

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Here, there is this new wave, and listening to you guys talk about the show even when I, you know, on certain shows I don't particularly like.

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I understand.

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Andrew Carton or, is he's the biggest revelation.

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And it's also a revelation how much John Nathan Turner also takes a step back, but he allows that space for that man to implement his vision, whereas he really didn't allow that prime.

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And that and that's huge.

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I mean, we said before that, that, say, would sought to be apolitical and you can't be apolitical.

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If you're trying to be apolitical.

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You supporting the status quo.

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And so there's an unpleasant militarism and just a kind of thoughtless, you know, reactionary kind of feel to the show under him. once we decide to become explicitly political.

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And once we have a target in Thatcher, we actually have a show that says interesting things again in a way that it hadn't for a long time.

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The extraordinary thing that seems to happen with Andrew Cartmel is, um, Season 18, we had Christopher Hamilton Bidmead, who was strong on ideas.

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And the story then came from the scientific idea.

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With the advent of Eric Saywood, and according to what Eric Saywood says in documentaries and interviews.

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JNT was sort of sticking his nose in with the story.

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So Eric would commission a story and then JNT would come in and say, oh, well, no, we'll do this and you must have a monster here, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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And it sounds like there was a fair bit of interference there, which Andrew Cartmel doesn't seem to have encountered.

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And I think what may have been the turning point was actually, say, would leaving halfway through trial, leaving JNT to then script edit the last 6 episodes and possibly JNT going, story is really not my thing.

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So, and of course, the revenge.

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The reason he did trial was because the show was in trouble and he didn't want to abandon it, but he honestly wasn't expecting to come back for season 24 to the point he was told, no, you're not coming back.

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He went off on holiday, came back and was told, no, you are.

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So I think at that point, he no longer wanted to be involved in story.

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And that, with the producer role as it was then, that's actually a really good thing.

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It's good for the producer to have an idea of these are the kind of stories I want to tell, like Barry Letts did, and he occasionally wrote some as well, or Philip Hinchcliffe.

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But Philip Hinchcliffe didn't write stories.

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He said to Bob, I want this kind of tone.

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I want this kind of feel.

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Bob Brief, the writer, and that's the way it worked.

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JNT script interference in the Silveira.

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It seems to be mainly limited to give me some monsters in ghost light, make the cheetah people big furry leopards.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Put the master in survival.

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So I think probably the difference that we identify in Nathan Turner's approach.

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I mean, we don't know.

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And we'll never know he's gone.

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The say would account of the era is so partisan.

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You know, that I don't think we ever will get to the truth there, but it's not inconsistent with the terrible relationship between Saywood and J and T meant that J and T suggestions are now retrospectively characterised as, you know, intolerable interference.

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Whereas Carmel never experienced them in that way.

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And that he still made suggestions and story suggestions, but that they weren't received in the same way as they had been during the Sabre era.

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Yeah, so they would seem to look at suggestions like, hey, let's put the master in us.

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Oh, God, not again.

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Whereas Cartmel would go, oh, okay.

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Well we need to figure out a way to make that organic to the story.

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Even with ghost light, where the animal husks of Josiah don't really make a lot of sense.

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No, and they contradict, for instance, as I said, they contradict what happens to control.

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Yeah, exactly We don't see her husks.

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But they are they are de-emphasized enough.

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You know, they're put in there to give us the 1st episode Cliffhanger.

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And then when they're dispatched in the last episode and they're blowing up, the doctor says some rungs have gone on his evolutionary ladder, it gives us, it gives us a joke about them. know what I mean?

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It's not like the gum. which to me is kind of the the ultimate bad idea of let's just put a monster in to have a monster in there.

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The magma creature?

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Well, the magma creature.

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At the very least.

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Robert Holmes taking them.

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Yeah, but the thing is, they shoot they shoot around the magma creature, whereas the garm gets all these bloody close-ups.

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The idea of the gum isn't bad, but the execution is.

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Whereas something I found watching so through because, of course, I watched it all through with Rod, and then I watched it over 3 days.

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Live tweeting, everything in a row.

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It is a mixed bag as you say, Richard.

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But there is also a consistency of chewiness.

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Yeah, yeah, there is a consistent density of blue aliens.

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They're all blue.

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All blue.

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And texture to the stories, you know, even if we've got one which is played a bit more farcically, like Paradise Towers compared to something more serious, like Curse of Fenrick, it's very clear from the visual look that they're the same show.

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There's no story in these 12, in my opinion, that looks significantly cheaper than the others, like say time lash or terminus or time flight.

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But they're dealing with shorter seasons and budgets easier to control.

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And so time-wise, it's easy to control.

186
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But it still feels like you've seen 6 years in three, doesn't it?

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Just in the leaps, technically narratively, not, and not just production, but in performance as well.

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That's very true, Richard, I agree with you.

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And I think there's just this layering in this building every, every season for me.

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And although I think there's missteps in that 1st season, they'd learn it from them, and you can see in Sylvester's performance, like in Paradise Towers, I can still see his doctor from, like, that's my favourite performance of his in that, in that season, since 24.

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And I see flashes in that that then are there to the forefront at the beginning of 25 and just, he's like a ability, his likeability is something, I can't explain it.

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I just I like him.

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I like his quiet moments.

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I like the moments when he's building with not only with ace, but with other characters that he has, like whether it be the inspector in Ghostlight, or whether it be another female character, like who's the blue, who's the secondary red Kang that's not Julie Brennan?

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Fire escape?

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Oh, yeah, well, she, they have a...

197
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Sorry, Ben Liner.

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Not Fire Escape, because she's terrible.

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Binliner.

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Binliner. and there's moments with her and it builds.

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He's an inability to shout is something that I will, you know, it just irritates me.

202
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Although there is a moment in ghost night where he shouts and it's not that bit.

203
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Sorry, that was really bad.

204
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I was doing the whole hand movement thing.

205
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There's there's one challenge annoying.

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There's one shouting bit in that story where it actually shouts and I actually go, oh my god, you've got it right.

207
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After 3 years you've got it right, you know?

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Is comic stuff, sometimes it's absolutely phenomenal and other times I think, oh, please just point back.

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But I really like him and I really respect him so much.

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Oh, wow.

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So I, people who I know who just gave up on the series in 24 and have just written him off as, you know, the worst doctor.

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Like, I'm there going, well, no, he's a really good doctor.

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In terms of an actor, perhaps I think because of the production in the scripts and that sort of thing.

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I don't necessarily think that his 2 predecessors and the 80s had to deal with a lot, I think, badder situations that they had to try and dig this show out of.

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So I kind of, like, you know, I'm not saying that he's a worse actor than them, but I'm just saying that he's had less sort of to deal with in that sort of respect.

216
00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:00.179
Generally, I get what you mean.

217
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.500
But I really like him.

218
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:04.980
I really like him and his relationship with Sophie Aldred.

219
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:13.259
Like in that one scene, at the end of Dragonfire, there is more chemistry there than with Bonnie Langford in the entire previous 13 episodes.

220
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:14.399
Like it's just incredible.

221
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.620
Now, you were going to ask...

222
00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:27.059
I was just going to ask, how do you think it would have gone if the roles had been flipped and Sylvester had played the 6th and Colin had played the 7th because I don't know that Sylvester would have necessarily been able to pull together.

223
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:34.500
And my knowledge of Colin's ear is still not full, but pulled together 22 and 23 in the same way.

224
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:35.340
What do you think?

225
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.960
I don't think even Colin...

226
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.299
It's not an...

227
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.460
But he was towards the end there.

228
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:45.360
23.

229
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:50.460
Look, it's so hard because now going back and looking backwards.

230
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:56.399
Defaults in the stories that Colin had to deal with are immeasurable.

231
00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:56.940
Yeah.

232
00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:04.859
And and I think his performance throughout the lot is actually phenomenal. what he's had to deliver.

233
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.259
I don't want to go back and rehash all of that.

234
00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:11.160
Can I see some of this to doing that in the same respect?

235
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:24.900
It's an impossible question to ask because he's dealt a different hand, and he's got a script editor who's with him, and they've got a vision together, and he's actively working to his strengths.

236
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.819
I just can't say, you know?

237
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.460
Imagine Colin in 24 to 27.

238
00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:35.940
I think we would have very much had a big finish, 6th dog.

239
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:42.299
Well, I think, I think you can't do, say what you're, Colin in those stories.

240
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.839
Because the stories are structured around the doctor.

241
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:47.220
A different character.

242
00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:51.059
Well, he lurks on the periphery of things. and Colin can't do that in that code.

243
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.839
I mean, he can't even turn up on earth in the present day in that outfit.

244
00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:56.700
I think we would have seen changes.

245
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:58.799
Yeah, well, I think so.

246
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:09.420
He would have had to play it like the Stranger and Miss Brown or something. you know, where he pulls it back in and he would have been, I mean, he would definitely have been up for that, I think.

247
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.039
I would think it would have been interesting.

248
00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:18.539
But I think the Sylvester McCoy era benefits from sitting back a bit and saying, all right, what do we want the doctor to be?

249
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.720
We can't just do the thing that we've done?

250
00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:26.519
with Pete and Colin and just react against the previous actor.

251
00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:32.220
So, you know, the brief for the 5th doctor was he mustn't have curly hair?

252
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:33.299
Do you know what I mean?

253
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.279
I mean, that was that was actually a thing.

254
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:37.559
And then Pete was not.

255
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:47.880
Like, I don't know who watches that 3 years of Doctor Who and thinks that Pete Davidson's doctor is nice because he's snarky and and it was kind of angry and dismissing.

256
00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.160
Passive aggressive, really.

257
00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:51.900
So we have to go nasty.

258
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:53.759
So we have to go nasty with the next doctor.

259
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.160
We have a doctor who puts in a subtle performance.

260
00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:57.420
So we have to go big.

261
00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:59.940
They don't do that Whistlevester.

262
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.160
They don't say let's have someone who's not Colin.

263
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:05.519
They say, what is this character like?

264
00:19:05.579 --> 00:19:07.079
And you've brought up, Brendan.

265
00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:12.119
Uh, you know, Sylvester's thoughts about the doctor's sort of sadness.

266
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:19.259
And I think Kartmel has thought about how the doctor solves the problems that he finds himself in.

267
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:25.859
And I think we've got memories of trout and not coming in and hogging the limelight.

268
00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:31.019
And even just his look, the whole thing is just thought about it bit more carefully.

269
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:33.059
Yeah, and it's still Pat Godfrey.

270
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.619
The last 3 doctors, same designer.

271
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:35.339
Yeah, yeah.

272
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:45.359
Well, I think that Colin was just pointed in the direction of the studio and told to do something, but I don't think he was given much of a brief about what his doctor was like.

273
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:50.160
I think another difference between the way Sylv and Colin played the role.

274
00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:55.019
They both passionately love the character.

275
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:56.700
There is no doubt about that.

276
00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:07.380
But if you look at Colin's stories and also the way Colin talks about his stories, all of Colin's stories pretty much have a sci-fi conceit.

277
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:14.759
You know, where moving planets to change time zones, where rewriting history, people turning into plants, that sort of thing.

278
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:17.339
Whereas all sylves stories.

279
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:24.420
They have more of, This is the shape of a society idea about them.

280
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:32.279
And I think that also reflects the actors' approaches because when Colin talks about his scripts and why they didn't work.

281
00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:34.859
He talks about logical inconsistencies in the scripts.

282
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:52.799
Whereas when Silv talks about his scripts, he talks a lot more about emotional, a lot more about feeling, and he famously says in interviews things like, you know, I didn't understand the science stuff, which is why I gave so much of it to Sophie, because Sophie loves science, and, you know, I just trusted the writers to get it right.

283
00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:57.960
Whereas Colin would say things like, well, hold on, no, this isn't how time travel works back on page two.

284
00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:00.059
You know, you can't change that now.

285
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.680
We need to, we need to sort this out.

286
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:19.799
So I think possibly if Colin had stayed around, we would, even with Carmel coming in, who likes sort of world building, I think we would have had a lot harder sci-fi, and I don't think that's necessarily good or bad, but that's Colin's passion.

287
00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:26.880
And with Cartmel being such a collaborative writer and, you know, working with his actors and what do you want to do with your character?

288
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:38.819
I think, It would have been really great for Colin to work with Cart Mill, because he had such strong ideas about the character, which weren't quite executed well enough because you also had a script editor who wanted to make a very dark show.

289
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.519
Whereas Cartmel wants to make a hopeful show that still has darkness in it.

290
00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:47.640
I think you both touched on some really wonderful things.

291
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:58.440
You said sadness and sorrow in the character, and that is something that that just resonates when I watch it, and I watch those moments with those sad moments that Sylvester has. getting emotional.

292
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:05.759
Like, this is, you know, this is what one of the greatest things about being on this journey is discovering this, you know?

293
00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:07.980
Even stuff that I didn't like.

294
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:09.420
I can appreciate.

295
00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:14.759
And it's just been a revelation, these last 2 seasons, even aspects of season 24.

296
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.619
I don't think Sylvester is a terrific actor.

297
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:31.740
I think he's compelling to watch, but he has strengths and that quiet, reflective, allergic thing that he does and he does it.

298
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:34.200
He starts doing it in season 24, I think.

299
00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:35.940
Is there a moment?

300
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:38.400
That stands out for you?

301
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:45.539
for him, that appended by his doctor or moments that you would say, there he is, that's, that is him.

302
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.359
He's kind of indomitable speech.

303
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:54.000
You know, Tom arrives in that indomitable space in space.

304
00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:00.720
I like him hugging the electric guitar at the end of Delta and the Bannerman.

305
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:08.099
I don't think it's a particularly well-written scene, but it's such such a different choice from any of his predecessors.

306
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:12.720
You know, he's hugging it and saying love has never been known for its rationality and stuff.

307
00:23:12.779 --> 00:23:15.000
And it's not a deeply sad thing.

308
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:19.980
Like I don't believe for a 2nd that, you know, that gives us some insight into the doctor's character.

309
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:28.619
But it's such a nice choice and it probably is the 1st sign that he's not just going to be the clown that he is in time Rani.

310
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:29.819
It's the contrast.

311
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.019
It's the mixed bag again.

312
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:37.019
You get the acid drops with the really fantastic juicy fruits.

313
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.579
And then my juiciest fruit for here is probably, again, in battlefield.

314
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.880
You've got the terrible moment that Brendan I'm hoping will recap for us.

315
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.619
Okay.

316
00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:51.180
There we go.

317
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.299
But you've also got just get that out between your teeth, listener.

318
00:23:54.359 --> 00:24:02.099
But he also has that speech, which I think only goes for 25 minutes with he and Gene Marsh at the end when he talks about pressing the button.

319
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:06.420
That's an extraordinary moment for any doctor and I think he delivers it superbly.

320
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.759
It really, for me, it's his greatest moment.

321
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:18.599
There, there, there are 2 moments for me because I love that big speech and I love his speech about consequences in remembrance and confronting Davros and what have you.

322
00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:23.099
Um, there are 2 moments for me and they're very, very quiet.

323
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.299
One is blink and you'll miss it.

324
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:31.380
It's actually in time in the Rani, because I think towards the end of shooting time in the Rani, Silv starts to get an idea of where he wants to go with this.

325
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:35.519
And it's when Bayes, Donald Pickering says, no, I'll stay.

326
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:44.880
And the doctor pushes Faroon out of the room and just looks at Bayes with this mixture of shock and respect and sadness.

327
00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:47.039
And it's just this very quick moment.

328
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:50.039
We then get the bit outside where he does the whole.

329
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.819
Oh, you know, Bayos was wonderful speech, which was shot 3 weeks previously.

330
00:24:53.880 --> 00:25:00.359
But that just little exit, you know, it's not just a turn and run. doesn't even get a close-up.

331
00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.720
And I didn't I didn't properly notice it until this time around.

332
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:18.539
The other moment for me that does it is, and I've said before that Silver Nemesis is my least favourite Silver Story, but there's that bit where he and Ace are wandering through the woods and Ace says she's actually scared.

333
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.240
And the doctor's immediate reaction is, I'm so sorry.

334
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:22.680
I didn't even think about this.

335
00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:24.299
Do you want to go back to the TARDIS?

336
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:26.460
And she just says, no, no way.

337
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.960
I'm coming with you and walks off and he just looks utterly bemused, like what just happened?

338
00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:39.180
And it emphasises his compassion, but it also emphasises his alienness because he thinks he knows what she wants.

339
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:40.680
But actually she doesn't.

340
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:41.460
He doesn't, rather.

341
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:50.039
There is so many little moments to his character, but just that one in Silver Nemesis really sticks out for me, possibly because I enjoy a lot of the story less.

342
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:55.559
But yeah, it's just that familiarity, yet unfamiliarity with human nature.

343
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:59.099
They're all lovely, lovely moments.

344
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:03.359
I mean, I still like him in the cafe with in remembrance of the dark.

345
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:04.140
With John.

346
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:04.799
I still love that.

347
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:05.279
I love that.

348
00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:10.440
I talked about last week, the ending of Ghostlight, where he says weekend.

349
00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:12.480
Like it's just sublime.

350
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:25.019
But there's another moment and it's in Paradise Towers when he looks down at his watch, you know, when he's, the rule book thing and he looks down at his watch and, like, you know, making up the time. that's actually the moment where he becomes the doctor for me.

351
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:26.039
Yeah, yeah.

352
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.259
So it's really that moment.

353
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:33.240
And I kind of thought, okay, okay, I've endured, I'm during this.

354
00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:36.660
But I can, but there's something in you.

355
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.759
My brother said the exact same thing.

356
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:47.339
And also, I mentioned the other week that when this 1st came on in 1987, as soon as Ace appeared and started calling him Professor, Rod stopped watching.

357
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.680
He's like, they're disrespecting the character now.

358
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:51.000
Now they're making the character into a joke.

359
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:58.019
We then went to a convention where Silv was and anyone who's seen Silv at a convention is just a force of nature.

360
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:03.359
Like, actually, I went to one convention where the interviewer didn't show up and it was for Silva, Nick Courtney.

361
00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:06.420
It was meant to be sil for 15 minutes and then Nick would come in.

362
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:12.180
And so Silv was there for 5 minutes and just picked up the microphone and said, well, right, I don't think he's coming.

363
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:13.319
Let's do this.

364
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:19.740
And just wandering around and Nick Courtney comes in, Sylvester, what's, uh, what, what, what, what's happening?

365
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.319
And Sylvester turns around and he's got an eye.

366
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.319
Well, Nicky's not turned up.

367
00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:26.039
So we're just doing this.

368
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:27.839
I said, oh, you're wandering about.

369
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:28.980
Do you mind if I sit up here?

370
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.119
No, darling, you sit up there.

371
00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:31.559
Who has a question for Nicholas?

372
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.720
He's superb at this.

373
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:41.400
Yeah, so when Rod saw him at a convention and we were up to, I think, pert we by that point, he said, okay, I'm looking forward to Sylvester now.

374
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:47.880
And for him and my brother, that moment in Paradise Towers that you just mentioned was the moment where they went, oh, I see what he's doing.

375
00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:58.680
My brother's perspective on Sylvester is very interesting because Sylvester and Tom are his 2 favourite doctors and he says he likes both of them because they both do the exact same thing.

376
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:00.480
They walk into a room.

377
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:04.980
And they might be standing at the back of the room for 10 minutes, but as soon as they...

378
00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:06.180
Quietly breaking wind.

379
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.759
Just offending everyone else on.

380
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:10.079
They work the curse of fending.

381
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.160
Are they working at what's going on?

382
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:12.539
They're working out what's going on.

383
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:16.200
But the moment they speak, all eyes turn to them.

384
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:17.819
And he's like, that's what I like.

385
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:21.900
And he said, Tom Baker does it because Tom Baker is 6 foot 2 and in a giant coat.

386
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:25.319
And he says, that's why I think I like Sylvestermore.

387
00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:26.640
Because Sylvester's 5 foot six.

388
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:27.240
He tiny.

389
00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:28.380
He's in silly clothes.

390
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:32.220
And yet he just stands at the back of the room and says, no, I don't think we're going to do that.

391
00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:36.299
You know, that's classified information, heaven, eh?

392
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.099
And that's a big thing.

393
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:40.019
And that's what he does in the Paradise Tower scene.

394
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:41.519
It's just he's been sitting there for a while.

395
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:46.920
He's been cogitating and there's even a bit in that scene where he kind of goes, I'm bored with this now.

396
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:47.460
Let's go.

397
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.519
Like, there's just this look on his face of, yeah, done everything I can do here.

398
00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:51.900
Time to get out.

399
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:59.579
It's also an extremely doctor-ish moment because, you know, if that Holmes idea that the doctor's enemy is bureaucracy.

400
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.599
Yes, yes.

401
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:07.859
And so it's him defeating bureaucracy by telling clever or even not particularly clever lies.

402
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:10.740
And so it is a super doctor-ish moment.

403
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:21.059
And I think the thing you identify, Todd, is that the lie is super obvious because he looks at his watch in order to make up a time that's in the rule book.

404
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:28.319
So he's not even bothering to tell a convincing lie at that point, but the caretakers are so dumb that they fall for it anyway.

405
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:31.740
And it's also the fact that after he tells the lie, he closes the book.

406
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:34.559
So if they want to look it up, they're going to have to look through the whole damn book.

407
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.039
Which, even though, you know, they lived it by the book.

408
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:43.319
I think the implication is there like some other people who live by certain books that they haven't actually read it.

409
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:44.579
Ah.

410
00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:50.460
You asked me a question, Richard, about imagining the 2 doctors in the different areas.

411
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:52.140
Now here's the question.

412
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.400
Bonnie Langford could have stayed on for season 25.

413
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:58.200
She was deciding whether or not to stay or not.

414
00:29:58.259 --> 00:30:00.180
Can you, any of you, a mansion?

415
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.759
Like a season 25 with the character?

416
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:08.519
So you've said, Todd, that you like Bonnie and Sylvester on Big Finish.

417
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:18.599
That's the linch because you don't need to imagine you can hear, especially in the latest ones, now they've paired her up with Ace, how male is, much more sophisticated.

418
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.240
She's playing Bonnie's playing itself, clever.

419
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:24.059
And and if we'd been able to have that.

420
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:28.380
But the character at the time, the way she was booted and written, no, it couldn't it wasn't working.

421
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:32.339
The big problem is she arrives massively overcharacterized.

422
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:33.900
But with no base.

423
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:34.380
No.

424
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:37.259
So we don't get to see her meet the doctor.

425
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:38.819
I do think that's a problem.

426
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.500
And like her 1st full story is written by Pip and Jane Baker.

427
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.019
We get one episode by Bob Holmes.

428
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:53.579
Another episode by Pip and Jane Baker, another story by Pip and Jane Baker, and they can't write convincing dialogue.

429
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:58.619
And so she decides to play it really big and theatrical because it's so unnaturalistic.

430
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.759
And I just don't think she ever pulls her performance back from there.

431
00:31:02.819 --> 00:31:07.920
And I think her best story is Delta and the Bannerman.

432
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:14.279
And that's because on earth, somewhere recognisable and she is not in the studio.

433
00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:19.740
And for once, the costume and hair kind of works with a scenario where it's never worked before.

434
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.519
So that's as close as she gets to doing a normal person.

435
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:28.140
But, you know, she's got no origin, no proper characteristics.

436
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:30.900
I just don't think that she works as a character.

437
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:34.799
I think she's absolutely lovely and I really enjoy watching her.

438
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:53.279
But like I'm not totally sold on some of the choices that Sophie makes throughout her era, but I think rebooting, you know, like the traditional screamer girly, which is what she was designed to be, was never going to work properly in the caramel era.

439
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:55.619
Yeah, not even in the in the 80s.

440
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.200
It just wasn't it was an odd choice. a terrible idea.

441
00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:07.079
You know, I see why JNT pitched her at that level because and really, for the 4 years he was producer after Tom left.

442
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:08.880
He was making a decent show.

443
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:14.759
You know, there were misfires, but I still think that in those 4 seasons, there's more hits than misses.

444
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:18.960
Yeah, it wasn't his 1st concept, Janet Fielding's character.

445
00:32:19.019 --> 00:32:21.539
Wasn't his 1st concept, Tegan Javanka.

446
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.339
It's a pretty strong premise.

447
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.059
Yeah, exactly.

448
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:26.640
But then the show gets taken off for 18 months.

449
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:29.339
He's never really given a satisfactory reason.

450
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:32.759
Like he's told it's more violent, but yet on the other channels.

451
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:37.799
You've got Buck Rogers and the A team killing it in the ratings, which are more violent than Doctor Who.

452
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:40.680
So he goes back to 1st principles.

453
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:43.619
He's like, give us a Susan or a Vicky star character.

454
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:47.400
I agree it's completely wrong for the time, but I can kind of see where that comes from.

455
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.160
Now, as for keeping melon in season 25.

456
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:55.140
I've always said I would have loved to see that because You've got the doctors, the head.

457
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:00.539
Ace is the hands, like, you know, the Jamie.

458
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:01.200
Are we going with this?

459
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:04.140
And Mel's and Mel's the heart.

460
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.059
So you got brains brawn and heart.

461
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:07.799
Ah, but nothing to sit on.

462
00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:10.019
But would they have taken on Ace?

463
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.099
Like if she said no?

464
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.579
Well, yeah, I think if they didn't take on Ace, that would be a big mistake.

465
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.319
You see, when I think about this, I always think about keeping the 3 of them together, as big finish do now.

466
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:29.700
But I think the other problem is Mel is so good in Big Finish, because Bonnie Langford has had an extra 15 to 30 years acting experience.

467
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:41.519
And, you know, she's become a household name again and she's given a variety of amazing performances and has then brought that experience back to Big Finish.

468
00:33:41.579 --> 00:33:56.039
In order to fit Mel into the cartel vision of the show, we would have definitely gotten more, say, computer programming stuff because, of course, Ace has brought in as this aggressive character who likes explosives.

469
00:33:56.099 --> 00:34:02.940
And so suddenly we get these stories with explosives and ace's scientific knowledge, having a basis in the plot.

470
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.880
So we would have had more of that with Mel, which would have grounded her more.

471
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:18.780
But if we had have had Mel and Ace, where I'm worried is, If we had have had, say, Mel in remembrance of the Daleks, we've got then no plot role for Professor Rachel Jensen.

472
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:20.639
In Happiness Patrol.

473
00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:24.179
We've got no role for Susie Q. We've got no role for mags.

474
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.760
We've got no role for Kathleen Dudman.

475
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:40.380
So when they write out Mel, they write in these surrogate characters each week and it's something we commented on, it helps ground the doctor in the world because he's directly affecting characters whom we care about.

476
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:48.659
And those audience identification characters were quite often lacking in the later Peter Davidson and Colin Baker eras.

477
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:53.519
I think, you know, the closest I can think of in trial is kind of Janet.

478
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:55.559
And even then, you know...

479
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.820
Splendiferous coffee.

480
00:34:56.940 --> 00:34:59.880
Even then she's very sketchily drawn.

481
00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:00.659
Yeah, exactly.

482
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:03.780
And the actress brings something to it to make it more than what it is.

483
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:04.679
Yeah, exactly.

484
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:09.179
You know, compare Janet to Susan Q. In happiness patrol.

485
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.059
There is no comparison and it's not.

486
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.119
I mean, Leslie Dunlop is a great actress, but I think Yolanda Palfrey.

487
00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:17.760
So it's a great job with, as you say, very little.

488
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:22.800
And I think that would be the problem with keeping Mel on, as much as I love Bonnie, and as much as I love Mel.

489
00:35:23.219 --> 00:35:27.960
I do think that it would have made the series more insular again.

490
00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:28.739
Okay.

491
00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:33.719
So, of course, her replacement is Sophie Aldred's ace thoughts, comments.

492
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:39.179
I'm not convinced that she's the best actor to ever play a companion on Doctor Who.

493
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:48.659
I'm with you on that one Again, like we said with the doctor, there's been some attempt to think about what this character's going to be like.

494
00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:55.139
And she is still a very sort of TV version of an 80s teenager.

495
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:02.579
Yeah, but it is still much closer to being grounded than anyone has been for ages, you know.

496
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.980
Like maybe since Tegan.

497
00:36:05.099 --> 00:36:11.039
Yeah, you know, I think also there is a comparison to be made to Sarah Jane Smith.

498
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:17.579
And of course, during the production of this at one of the many Doctor Who junkets that JNT, like to send the actors to.

499
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:19.559
Sophie Aldred and Elizabeth Slayton met.

500
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.340
And Sophie Aldred said to Elizabeth Slayton, oh my god, it's so good to meet you.

501
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:43.619
I'm, you know, I'm trying to bring what you did in the show and I'm such a fan of it and Elizabeth Swade and turned to her and said, but darling, you're doing so well. you're out there beating up Daleks and explosions and I think you're wonderful, which is a lovely story, but I think it is just like Sarah Jane was a TV version of a feminist with a career.

502
00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:45.000
Yeah.

503
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:46.559
Yeah, it's the same kind of thing.

504
00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:48.300
It's very broad strokes.

505
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:58.860
I think possibly by the 80s we were ready for more sophisticated characterisation, which would have included the accent and even Sophie's gone on to say, of course, that she would have played it a little less.

506
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.440
Tish.

507
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:06.239
I always put that out of my head.

508
00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:11.760
I was actually thinking she's the really only likeable companion since the last upper middle-class character, which was Romano.

509
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:13.320
You know what?

510
00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:16.380
Yeah, I mean, I mean, did you like any of the ones in between?

511
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:17.280
That's the thing.

512
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:20.940
You say you like Mel now, but she wasn't really a rounded.

513
00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:21.960
She was just a cypher.

514
00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:32.579
Yeah, the companions between Romana and Ace really range from being unlikeable to inoffensive and it's because we've snobs and we only like upper middle-class companies.

515
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:35.099
I love Tegan, so you can both shut up.

516
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.039
The thing is, I do kind...

517
00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:45.300
Yeah, possibly with the exception of Tegan, who I think, you know, it shows real vulnerability as well as as well.

518
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.460
And, you know, I like Turlow.

519
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:48.420
I like Nissa.

520
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:54.239
I have a soft spot for Adric, but I don't think he's particularly well written or mostly well played.

521
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:58.920
Nicola Bryant does the best she can do with really quite an obnoxious character.

522
00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:01.260
Well, I don't think she's obnoxious.

523
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.480
I think the way she's treated is obnoxious.

524
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:06.239
Yes, you know, that's upsetting.

525
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:11.039
And in fact, the more likeable she is, the more horrific the way that she's treated seems.

526
00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:18.420
Yeah, maybe I could actually say that this is the 1st companion since Romana treated with respect by the production.

527
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:27.059
Yeah, I'd agree with you there because, you know, even even Turlo, who got a really good intro on a really good outro just gets locked in cupboards whinging.

528
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.019
There's a title.

529
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:30.539
Rockting cupboards whinging.

530
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:33.239
It might be me after I go through season 24.

531
00:38:33.420 --> 00:38:44.460
Yeah, I think Miss Sophie's, or with Ace, is that, you know, she starts off very much a character concept and very tomboyish.

532
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:46.199
And by season 26.

533
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:48.900
In all those stories, she gets to be a woman.

534
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:56.159
Like, and I know, like, I mean, wear womanly things, not just, um, the tomboy type of things.

535
00:38:56.219 --> 00:39:01.500
And yeah, she's still aggressive and has that strength to it, but she has this other side, this maturity, I think.

536
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:13.559
And I think what's important there is, as you say, she starts off as the vision of a tomboy, whereas by season 26, she is combining societal, masculine and feminine expectations.

537
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.400
Does she ever actually escape the confines of the comic book?

538
00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:20.940
She does feel like a Lee Sullivan sketch of an Alan Moore character.

539
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:22.380
She's very late 80s comic.

540
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:24.719
Sorry, graphic novels.

541
00:39:26.579 --> 00:39:28.800
It a proper art form. action figures, not dolls.

542
00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:37.860
There's that moment in Curse of Fenwick, where the doctor is slightly disappointed by the fact that she wants to go and look after Kathleen and the baby and he sort of objects.

543
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:43.800
He says, you know, you once would have dropped everything for a little bit of excitement and she goes off to look after them.

544
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:47.820
And I think that that is fantastic.

545
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:53.880
And if we'd had Mel being the heart of the show, she wouldn't have had the opportunity to do that, that's sort of proper maturity.

546
00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:01.619
I like that Yeah, it's what we will see later in the new adventures where they turn Ace into, quote, hardened space bitch, unquote.

547
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:03.119
Oh so bad.

548
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:05.579
It's such an awful misunderstanding of the character.

549
00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:08.159
And yeah, that's the thing.

550
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:18.360
It would have been Ace was all action, all drawn, all guts, all beating people up, but instead she gets to have a heart and she gets to have emotion.

551
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:31.199
And, you know, I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something about her costume in survival with the red blouse and the black jeans and Chesterton school tie as a belt.

552
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:32.820
Go back and have a look.

553
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:33.659
Is it green and black?

554
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:34.920
I think it is.

555
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.260
You know, with her bomber jacket as well.

556
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:41.099
It makes her look so much more grown up than she did in Dragonfire.

557
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:43.679
It's this kind of weird thing of, you know, back in Dragon Pie, we discussed it.

558
00:40:43.739 --> 00:40:51.599
She doesn't really look 16, but it's like you put her, a picture of her in Dragonfire up against a picture of her in survival and you're like, you know what?

559
00:40:51.659 --> 00:40:52.619
That could be 2018.

560
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:54.119
Definitely.

561
00:40:55.019 --> 00:41:05.760
I think that, um, this character and the growth and what you see there is something that we see in the new series with the companions, whether they're there for a season or two.

562
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:13.559
Is there some sort of arc for them and some sort of understanding, whether Martha, for example, standing our own 2 feet and not just being in love with the doctor and that sort of thing.

563
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:14.880
And that's very now.

564
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:16.019
Yeah.

565
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.360
And I think that that was always a good thing.

566
00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:28.920
I'm mystified by people who complain that there are real emotions instead of just, you know, space guns and people in rubber suits, you know, why do we have to have boyfriends and mothers and stuff?

567
00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:30.960
I don't understand that criticism at all.

568
00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:35.880
And it does start with A's, who she's still a TV person.

569
00:41:35.940 --> 00:41:42.780
She's not really a proper person, but like they make her the jumping off point for a number of the stories.

570
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:44.760
And I think it's a really really good idea.

571
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:49.139
And also, I think she gets the perfect length to develop her character.

572
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:58.139
It's 9 stories here, but if we look at the new series, Martha, Donna, Bill, all really get one season.

573
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:04.500
So far, we don't know what's happening with Bill in the future, but they all get one season. stories have a clear beginning, middle, and end.

574
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:07.380
Whereas if you look at, say, Billy Piper as Rose.

575
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.699
Now she had to stay on for season 2 in order to have some continuity with Christopher Eccleston leaving.

576
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.639
But by the end of season two, you really want to see her go.

577
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:19.199
Yeah, you do. tooth and claw.

578
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:27.000
But the whole point of their characterisation in the 2nd season, they said this is, you know, the doctor and rows are getting too big for their boots. to be brought down a bit.

579
00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:32.400
Amy and Rory ending that 1st season with their wedding and it's triumphant is wonderful.

580
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:34.199
And then look what happens in season 6.

581
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:35.639
And then look what happens.

582
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:43.559
The ridiculous stupid ending in season 7 that makes no logical narrative or emotional sense with being stuck in New York.

583
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:44.940
For God's sake, get on a boat.

584
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:46.380
Clara.

585
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:50.400
Clara's ending in last Christmas is perfect.

586
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.460
You know, she's had a, she's had a long life.

587
00:42:53.519 --> 00:43:05.760
You know, she kind of says, I never found another man to love after Danny or the doctor, but I had a brilliant life and I travelled and I've had fun and that's lovely compared to what we get in series nine, which is still dramatically interesting.

588
00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:09.599
But I think that sort of length of a character is good.

589
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:15.420
And remember, Sophie and Andrew Cartman have said, she would have only stuck around for another half season.

590
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.280
And they had planned her ending.

591
00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:26.219
She was going to go to Gallifrey and stir up the time lords, which, for a script editor who's like, we're getting away from the time lords and we're getting away from Gallifrey is very interesting.

592
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:33.719
But I think what it would then open up is a few years later, you can bring a lord president, Dorothy Dravatrelunda.

593
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:41.340
You know, but yeah, I think the reason she's so good is because they're like, we don't have much time.

594
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:43.619
We've only got 14 episodes a year, we've only got 4 stories.

595
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:50.940
We need to give our leads something to do, and the best thing to do is just show them growing as people and caring about each other.

596
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:59.340
And you go through the companion and I don't think it's ever been as much growth in a companion in the classic series as this character.

597
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:10.980
We've had the Mara stuff with Tegan, but then when you look back, Joe did grow, but it's just not quite the same as what this is and centuring it around her story.

598
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:12.000
Yeah.

599
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:12.420
Yeah.

600
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:18.000
Well, I mean, even if you look at Joe's growth, Joe doesn't grow that much in her 1st season.

601
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:20.280
I've met Cody, she's tiny.

602
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:27.239
You know, even in the Damons, where she, where she throws herself up and says, you know, take me instead.

603
00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:29.760
She was doing that back in Terror of the Autons.

604
00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:42.059
It's her, it's her last 2 seasons, 10 stories, where she actually grows and uses her escapology course and uses her karate and knocks out guards and takes on giant maggots and things like that.

605
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:49.619
Yeah, I think sort of that story length, 10 storylines is a really good, is a really good length for a companion.

606
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:51.780
And look at big finish.

607
00:44:51.840 --> 00:45:00.000
Big Finish did a few solo stories with Ace and the 7th doctor and then straight away introduce another companion, Hex, but really he's Ace's companion.

608
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:03.719
Hex and the doctor don't have, they have a relationship.

609
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:04.860
They don't have much for a relationship.

610
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:06.960
It's more about the relationship between Hex and Ace.

611
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.519
See, my thing is it had the series going on for another season.

612
00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:15.840
You know, I feel that they've sort of wrapped up Ace's story.

613
00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:22.800
What could they really have done with her and I would have been afraid that they might have decided to kill her off, which I think would have been appalling.

614
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:24.960
Where could she go from there?

615
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:25.860
Do you know what I mean?

616
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.139
Like, I really think they needed to have a new companion.

617
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:32.760
I know, of course, big finish have done this season 27 that never was.

618
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:34.739
Birth Charmers's Reign.

619
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:44.639
But, you know, I've tried to listen to 2 of those things and I've just gone, this, to me, just doesn't flow with what I, I don't know in my head or what was going to happen next and I've just given up.

620
00:45:44.699 --> 00:45:49.260
It's fascinating because, of course, I'm doing my new adventures blog.

621
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:50.820
And, of course, bread.

622
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:55.739
I've read Warhead by Andrew Cartmel, and he has very interesting ideas about narrative.

623
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:57.239
Narrative Structure.

624
00:45:57.300 --> 00:46:07.380
I think that's part of the problem with those big finish season 27 stories is that Cartmel has a very heavy hand in them and I think he's a writer who is a really good script editor.

625
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.739
Like he really works well with writers and honing their ideas.

626
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:17.519
But I don't think he's necessarily as good a writer as he is a script editor.

627
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:18.000
Warhead.

628
00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:27.539
I really enjoyed reading, but I was frustrated because it's kind of like, literally, I think it's 50 or 60 pages before the doctor or ace appear.

629
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.420
That's a new adventures trove.

630
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:41.159
But it's also an SF writing trope, and we have come to this show via media and film and other and other TV shows, but we haven't really talked about science fiction writing.

631
00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:49.380
And really, I'd say Kartmall is a big fan of Neil Stevenson's work, Kryptonomicon, which absolutely is about the Turing period.

632
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:51.300
Well, it's got tearing in it.

633
00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:59.159
And also Werner Vinge, Werner Vinge, who was winning lots of Hugo and Nebula Awards back in the day.

634
00:46:59.219 --> 00:47:16.800
Big soaps about big characters doing very complex things with other boys, and the girls that would come along would be feisty and fun and interestingly racially mixed and not wearing terribly much, and like Lara, blah, blah, comic.

635
00:47:16.860 --> 00:47:19.199
That's the one, Lara Flynn Boyle slashcroft.

636
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:20.340
They're all the same.

637
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:29.159
But yeah, these boys were reading books by other straight boys about things like this, and it is very much based in science fiction.

638
00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:31.019
Good, very good science fiction writing.

639
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.960
Kim Stanley Robinson is another one with his Mars series.

640
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:37.500
So, yeah, that it's Stronghandecedents.

641
00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:45.539
It's just not things that probably most people who are listening to this podcast are indeed watching Doctor Who necessarily go to.

642
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:51.179
Doctor Who is not, I feel at base, a totally guns SF fan base.

643
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:51.900
No, not at all.

644
00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:54.420
Red Dwarf would have more of that than we do.

645
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

646
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:58.800
So, Nathan, you mentioned that like we've had all these new writers.

647
00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:04.320
So putting it out to the team, is there a writer that you believe stands out in this era?

648
00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:05.519
Oh, I might jump in.

649
00:48:05.579 --> 00:48:06.300
Yeah, yeah.

650
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:07.079
Let's open anybody.

651
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:09.420
We're all staring at Nathan now, aren't we?

652
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:14.340
You know, as much as Ghost Light is probably my favourite sylve.

653
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:25.500
I think I think I might say Stephen Wyatt is the writer who really stands out for me this season because he's camp as things on a bull, isn't he?

654
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:34.019
But, you know, Paradise Towers, even if the execution doesn't work, the script in its purest form straight away gets to what Cartmel wants to do.

655
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:37.199
He wants to do social commentary with jokes and grotesque characters.

656
00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:40.199
And he talks like Charles Hawtrey in the interviews.

657
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:40.920
What's not to like?

658
00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:43.619
And you know, then we've got greater show in the galaxy.

659
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:48.960
And Cartmel has confirmed that, yeah, Stephen Wyatt would have probably come back again.

660
00:48:49.019 --> 00:48:52.800
The only reason he wasn't in season 26 is his only 4 stories a season. wouldn't that have been amazing?

661
00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:53.340
Yeah.

662
00:48:53.400 --> 00:49:05.639
Cartwell kind of says he literally could have done season 27 with 4 completely new writers that he had on his books, including Robin Mukerji, who wrote a storyline for a three-parter called Elixion.

663
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:11.219
And whose solo went to number one when the NRL played them last week on iTunes, yeah.

664
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.840
You had Robert Perry and Mike Tucker, who later wrote the book Illegal Alien.

665
00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:17.699
Yes, their proper guns, boys, aren't they?

666
00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:19.739
That was pitched for season 26.

667
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:28.860
And what happened was Ben Aronovic was giving them notes on it and said, I've just found out Cartmel's looking at a World War 2 drama.

668
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.579
If you put this in there, you know, it's not going to get through.

669
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:34.079
Submit it for season 27.

670
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:36.659
And we know what happened there.

671
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:42.539
But yeah, for me, Stephen Wyatt, I think, really captures the spirit of this era.

672
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:50.940
So it's Stephen Wyatt, Ian Briggs, and Ben Aronovic, who write 2 stories each for this era.

673
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:51.780
Yes.

674
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:54.000
Then you got Mark Malcolm Cole.

675
00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:55.139
Graham Curry.

676
00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:58.800
Graham Curry, Pipin Jane, Kevin Clark, and Rona.

677
00:49:58.860 --> 00:49:59.579
Monroe.

678
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:06.780
I think that Ronan Monroe's script is the best script of the era.

679
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:08.099
In some senses anyway.

680
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:10.739
I think it's complex and interesting.

681
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.260
It's high, it's high art complex stuff.

682
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:17.760
I don't know visually it comes across as the strongest story or I don't even think viewer satisfaction.

683
00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:19.139
It's the most compelling to watch.

684
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.920
No, and there is a lot of sort of standing around spouting poetry at each other.

685
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:28.860
Much like our action figures do in our own quiet performances, do they not, Brendan?

686
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:29.099
Yes.

687
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.099
Little window into our lives there, dear listener.

688
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:44.760
Shut up So I'm thinking Aronovic. who manages to take sort of elements of Doctor Who Law, like Unit and the Brigadier and the Daleks.

689
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:46.739
Proper bugger them sideways.

690
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:49.380
We do interesting things with them.

691
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:50.519
As you might prefer to put it.

692
00:50:50.579 --> 00:50:50.940
Yes.

693
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:53.340
Aaronovich is just superb.

694
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:54.780
And he's messy.

695
00:50:54.840 --> 00:51:00.900
He's a really messy man in everything that he does and he's riding everything else and the way he talks. love him.

696
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:05.699
That novelisation of remembrance is spectacular.

697
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.420
And it got recognition at the time as an SF book.

698
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.840
Yeah.

699
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:12.539
And, you know, it helps launch the new adventures.

700
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:19.860
It helps make us think that we can do original Doctor Who fiction, not based on the TV show once it ends.

701
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:26.340
And Battlefield is a mess, but I think that's mostly the production and not the script at all.

702
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:27.960
I think it was too optimistic.

703
00:51:28.019 --> 00:51:33.420
So I think there is some problems with the script, like having a helicopter ride that goes on for...

704
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:37.739
There's a lot of great set pieces, but I think it needed...

705
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:41.460
There's a lot of standing around in medium shot yelling at each other.

706
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.320
I mean, that's the production, isn't it?

707
00:51:43.380 --> 00:51:54.480
But I think I'm not convinced the Cardinals are great script editor in the sense that he can get a script and produce a series of 25 minute episodes.

708
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:55.079
Do you mean hands on?

709
00:51:55.139 --> 00:51:55.739
That's true.

710
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:55.980
Yeah.

711
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:59.039
There's a lot of stuff here. 30, 35 minute episodes.

712
00:51:59.099 --> 00:52:00.599
Yeah, well, this is us true.

713
00:52:00.659 --> 00:52:07.559
But are you saying, as he is systematically or as he is simply in the performance of production, or are you saying as an ideas man?

714
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:11.159
Oh, no, I think he's a great ideas, man, I think he commissions great stories.

715
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:13.800
I think he has a really good idea of where the show's going.

716
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:18.539
But I just mean the kind of nuts and bolts of, you know, all of the scripts run long.

717
00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:21.719
You know, there's all kinds of pacing problems all over the place.

718
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:24.059
It's how they do it now. a dramaturk.

719
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:29.099
If he were working for an opera company or a theatre production company, his role is very much defined.

720
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:30.300
They needed a 3rd wheel.

721
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:33.360
They needed someone else to actually be script editor.

722
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:36.239
Yeah, when you consider how the new series does it.

723
00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:55.079
You have your executive producer, who's your executive producer, your head writer, and really, what we would call the script editor now, whereas the script editor role on the new series is that 3rd person who goes, right, I need to get this down to 50 minutes as well as providing technical notes and saying, this is logical inconsistency, et cetera, et cetera.

724
00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:59.219
But, yeah, I have to agree, Battlefield's, the script for Battlefield is great.

725
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:05.340
And like you said earlier, Richard, the speech about the child looking up into the sky and their eyes turning to cinders.

726
00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:14.099
And there's also lovely moments in there, like when Bambera can't find the keys and Anselm figures out that's what she wants and she still says, no, that's not what I wanted.

727
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.800
Yeah, any scene with the 2 of them.

728
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:22.739
I think that story creates a world that's really a fun place.

729
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:26.760
It does feel like a day out at school. doesn't it?

730
00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:27.780
It's a lovely excuse.

731
00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:31.500
It's really enjoyable, but I think the production is a horrific mess.

732
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:33.179
It was fun at the time though.

733
00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:36.119
I think it's a really good choice.

734
00:53:36.179 --> 00:53:38.699
I think he's he's a good Doctor Who, right?

735
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:40.199
I think so. agree with you.

736
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:47.519
Look, I'm going to choose Graham Curry as a one-off because I just think that story is just sublime.

737
00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:50.880
Happiness Patrol. is my favourite of the era.

738
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.920
I thought it was going to be Ghostlight, but it's not.

739
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.059
Well, I, look, I'm, you know, my favourite period of the year.

740
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:02.340
I'm just going to put up the silver tinsel tree and stick silver nemesis on the top of it because I don't care. really enjoy it.

741
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:03.480
No, no.

742
00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:11.099
I mean, this is the lovely thing about the mixed lolly bag is that there is something no matter what you want and you can put that one aside and enjoy it later if you don't.

743
00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:17.219
It's extraordinary that in just 12 stories, we've got such a complete range of ideas.

744
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.260
I think the closest rider who's come next to it.

745
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:25.559
I know he's, you know, you can argue fast superior writer, but Philip Pullman does things with tone.

746
00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:30.360
He's got his new ones out, the new of the dark materials. his next trilogy.

747
00:54:30.420 --> 00:54:32.460
Yeah, 1st one's just out.

748
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:36.480
That's my pick But of the week. the turnality and the differences.

749
00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:40.440
And Kartmore really understood what a show needed to be.

750
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:51.539
I just wish we'd had another either extended seasons with the old budgets and more time or just another 2 or 2 or 3 seasons with these people would have just been lovely to see where they went.

751
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:55.320
Sylvester's costume changes over the time.

752
00:54:55.380 --> 00:55:03.960
And so we have the initial one with the wrong scarf and then we've got the season 25 costume with question mark umbrella.

753
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:06.719
Then we've got season 26 with the darker coat and the pullover.

754
00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:09.719
Then we've got the linen suit in the books.

755
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:13.139
And then we've got the telly movie, that costume in the hair.

756
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:14.639
So which one of all of those?

757
00:55:14.699 --> 00:55:16.500
So I missed any costumes?

758
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.539
Which one of which one do you think?

759
00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:21.059
I don't like on a costume?

760
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:25.320
Because I think in the end it's less of a costume like Peter and Colin.

761
00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:31.199
It's, you know, he can wear it around the place and not look like a complete. was the idea, wasn't it?

762
00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:31.679
From a distance.

763
00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:33.360
It's only when you get up close.

764
00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:37.679
I love the season 26 one with the overcoat. the dark.

765
00:55:37.739 --> 00:55:38.579
I love the duffle coat.

766
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:39.239
Yeah, yeah.

767
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:43.440
I think it's a relief not to have a jacket that goes to your knees.

768
00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:46.860
You know, like we've had that for so long.

769
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:51.900
Look, I don't think the costume works.

770
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:56.639
It's got a nice sort of 50s and this mid-20th century thing to it.

771
00:55:56.699 --> 00:56:07.019
It isn't Collins costume, but like I hate the question mark pullover and watching survival, like he just about passes, doesn't he?

772
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:15.480
Oh, in the street, in the street. you know, and the trousers are a nice kind of hark back to sort of trout and I guess.

773
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:18.900
So, you know, like I don't think it's super offensive.

774
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:30.960
I still think, though, the problem of the era where we're sort of proleptically designing the action figure when we design the doctor's costume.

775
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:31.980
I think that's a problem.

776
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:34.800
I think they were still doing it with Matt Smith.

777
00:56:34.860 --> 00:56:36.960
Of that final season, Matt Smithing was ridiculous.

778
00:56:37.019 --> 00:56:44.159
It was such a fan art idea and put him in purple because, you know, that's what all fans into, you know, some of us here as well.

779
00:56:44.219 --> 00:56:46.440
It's what we all kind of favour.

780
00:56:46.500 --> 00:56:48.000
Yeah, so everyone's looking at me.

781
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:52.800
But yeah, I think designing is always the wrong idea.

782
00:56:52.860 --> 00:56:54.239
It should be brickolage.

783
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:55.199
Pete's idea was correct.

784
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:56.760
But it was Silv's hat.

785
00:56:56.820 --> 00:56:59.219
And the fair aisle idea.

786
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:02.760
You know, he walked in with that Christie Panama hat.

787
00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:04.679
And the lovely, the Ferrari thing.

788
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:11.519
I actually love the telly movie idea, even though it's the San Francisco designers or, you know, the US designer's idea of what an English gentleman looked like.

789
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:13.019
I just really like it.

790
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.119
But I love the silhouette and I love that.

791
00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:15.900
No, it's gorgeous.

792
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:16.679
Love it.

793
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:17.460
I'd wear it.

794
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.139
Yeah, the telly movie is exactly what Silv wanted the...

795
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:22.920
He said.

796
00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:27.900
Like, he said, you know, a waistcoat instead of instead of the question mark, pull over.

797
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:29.760
He might have been happy with the time.

798
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:32.639
It was, and Armani needed time. yeah, lovely.

799
00:57:32.699 --> 00:57:36.300
But don't forget, Armani also designed for Blade Runner in 81.

800
00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:37.679
They were his.

801
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:39.599
So those little knitted overcheck.

802
00:57:39.719 --> 00:57:39.960
Right.

803
00:57:40.019 --> 00:57:40.800
Oh, okay.

804
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:43.920
Um, in terms of the costume.

805
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:51.420
Silv has said, I mentioned earlier, the whole thing about, he signed on for a 3rd year, but knew that that obliged him for a 4th.

806
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.420
Well, the way he rationalised that to himself is right at the end of year three.

807
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:56.940
I'm going to say to them, right, I've agreed to do your 4th year.

808
00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.579
We're getting rid of the question mark pull over.

809
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:05.519
So in the last season, he would have had a fair, fair aisle pullover or a waistcoat or something like that.

810
00:58:05.579 --> 00:58:07.320
He loved the umbrella.

811
00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:09.960
He thought the umbrella was actually subtle and it is.

812
00:58:10.019 --> 00:58:16.559
He said it's his idea whether or not that's the case, but because, you know, if you put your hand over the joint, it doesn't look like a question mark.

813
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:20.639
Personally, as a kid, I never had a problem with the pullover.

814
00:58:20.699 --> 00:58:25.019
I don't particularly have a problem with it now because as you say, it's that thing of from a distance.

815
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:27.599
You can't see there's anything strange about it.

816
00:58:27.659 --> 00:58:30.119
And even close up, you're looking at self's face.

817
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:36.719
So it's like a surrounding detail that you'll notice that, for me anyway, that you'll notice later.

818
00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:38.639
I know a lot of people say they just can't get past it.

819
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:43.320
And it does go against the bricolage idea of that is bespoke.

820
00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:44.760
You're not just going to find it somewhere.

821
00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:50.159
But everything else is bricolage, like the field jacket and the duffle code, of course.

822
00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:51.300
The accent.

823
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:52.139
The accent.

824
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:54.360
Doing it now.

825
00:58:55.199 --> 00:59:04.800
The hat, the trousers, the shoes. must have own teeth.

826
00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:19.739
You know, so I think the reason the pullover kind of works is that everything else around it, while eccentric is essentially a normal piece, which you put it together and it creates something strange.

827
00:59:20.940 --> 00:59:23.519
What do you think about the question?

828
00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:26.099
Well, actually, sorry, your question was favourite version of the costume?

829
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:26.940
Season 26.

830
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:28.079
Yeah.

831
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:34.920
But I can I can digit a pullover like for the waistcoat from the telly movie quite happily.

832
00:59:34.980 --> 00:59:35.400
Yeah.

833
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:43.440
I'm happy when he gets rid of the mashed up season 24 hat and just gets a hat that hasn't been mashed up.

834
00:59:43.500 --> 00:59:54.539
And so, you know, sometimes when he puts his hat on in season 24, it's so mashed up that he just looks like an idiot, the Paradise Towers, there are a couple of really atrocious hat moments.

835
00:59:54.599 --> 01:00:07.320
But I have to agree with Alan Waring, who tries to get rid of the hat and the umbrella, you know, at the 1st possible opportunity, and so he doesn't wear them in ghost light because he's not an animal and he's inside.

836
01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:09.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

837
01:00:09.659 --> 01:00:18.480
But also, very interestingly, it goes like, he waits to take them off until a servant takes them because that's what you do in polite society.

838
01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:21.599
It's not your responsibility to take your hat off.

839
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:27.119
It is the host's responsibility to have a servant take your hat. part of the welcoming, right?

840
01:00:27.179 --> 01:00:29.460
That's why I'm still wearing my hat now, Brendan.

841
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:31.260
Yeah, but that's because I don't like you.

842
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:33.659
I do like the cherries though.

843
01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:35.760
I think they're quite become it.

844
01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:37.559
Yeah, no, it was Missy's idea.

845
01:00:37.619 --> 01:00:39.360
May week was in June.

846
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:43.559
I think I'm going into a food coma after eating.

847
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:45.719
I'm only halfway through.

848
01:00:46.260 --> 01:00:47.820
The cake.

849
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:48.780
The cake job.

850
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:49.320
Okay.

851
01:00:49.380 --> 01:00:49.980
Don't panic.

852
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:52.619
This podcast.

853
01:00:52.679 --> 01:01:00.239
I guess I need to drag myself back into some sort of, um, not food coma and I'll have to talk about season 24.

854
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:02.639
I had promised to rant.

855
01:01:02.699 --> 01:01:07.739
I don't feel like doing a rant because I'm in a room with people who love this and I'm feeling very...

856
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:09.659
That should just be encouraged.

857
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:10.619
This is a safe space.

858
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:13.139
This is a safe space. can I walk back?

859
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:24.059
I think that we were enthusiastic about those stories, and I think that for me, season 24 came as a relief because it was doing things the show hadn't done before.

860
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:26.460
And and I agree with you.

861
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:31.139
There's a huge relief that it's no longer sober, and it's no longer 14 episodes.

862
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:34.199
And that's obvious in the 1st 2 episodes of the season.

863
01:01:34.260 --> 01:01:35.820
And I really like...

864
01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:43.440
I like Hadamara playing Mel, which I didn't like as a kid, and the doctor having amnesia for those bits.

865
01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:45.900
I hate all the pratforms and the spoon playing.

866
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:50.099
We get to the scene where the doctor meets Mel for the 1st time.

867
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:57.000
And I know Brendan loves that sequence, but I think it's one of the worst sequences ever perpetrated by a lead actor and actress in the history of Doctor Who.

868
01:01:57.059 --> 01:02:00.239
And from that moment, I actually really enjoy it too.

869
01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:02.880
From that, it's no offence.

870
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.059
Of course not, dying. enjoying this.

871
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:09.719
But from that moment on, the whole story just falls apart for me.

872
01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:14.280
I don't like the big performance of the Rani.

873
01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:17.579
I just want to get that nose ring and rip it out of her nose.

874
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:19.440
I hate her TARDIS.

875
01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:22.739
The, the, the, the pet traps really hurt.

876
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:28.500
The tet traps, I just are a waste of space, wider their eyes connect to scanners.

877
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:29.039
I don't know.

878
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:34.380
They're only really there for the Pip and Jane Baker ending so she comes showing up in that crap tartar set.

879
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:37.860
God, I was disappointed that it was not the original one and I know why it wasn't.

880
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:49.440
I'm not an advocate for genocide, but, but, but I will say this that I've never wanted a species to be killed more than the locertians.

881
01:02:49.500 --> 01:02:59.940
And when and when he falls that foot out, I go to bed at night dreaming that those bugs in that globe, get a released and they all just get stung to death.

882
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:01.079
Like, I don't want that to happen.

883
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:03.960
Many of us said that at the fan community at the time.

884
01:03:04.019 --> 01:03:06.719
I like his performance. like his performance.

885
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:07.260
It's good.

886
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:09.360
My Kona's performance is good.

887
01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:17.519
Farun, I mean, honestly, it's either your daughter or your husband who was dead there, you stupid woman, just standing there and then your husband decides to commit suicide because he's a collaborator.

888
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:21.960
I just completely disagree with everything else that you guys had to say on that.

889
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:26.519
And I just, the last 2 episodes were just combined with the music, almost turgent.

890
01:03:26.579 --> 01:03:29.159
But there's a 7 out of 10 in that 1st part of the story.

891
01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:30.480
Then there's Bonnie Langford.

892
01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:38.039
I would like to go to one language and say, did the director tell you to look at everybody like they've got a 3rd eye in the middle of their head throughout the entire story?

893
01:03:38.099 --> 01:03:39.599
the entire story.

894
01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:41.340
Does she not look at anybody in the eye?

895
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:43.199
I'm going to have to look.

896
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:48.179
She looks here all the time and I'm going, for God's sake, please just, just look, look, look, look at them.

897
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:50.699
I thought we were doing the cave monster.

898
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:57.900
I do laugh. when all of the Tetrats come out and Mel just keeps having to scream, scream, and scream, and goes into Bay Assam to just laugh at that.

899
01:03:57.960 --> 01:04:00.840
And there's a great cliffhanger. one when she's in that bubble.

900
01:04:00.900 --> 01:04:04.800
But of course, I wish to God that it exploded and she's just a skeleton. that's how I feel.

901
01:04:04.860 --> 01:04:08.340
So, so, but the story has improved dramatically for me.

902
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.480
I just want to say that.

903
01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:13.800
I think there's a 7 out of 10 in there and I really enjoy that 1st episode and a half .

904
01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:19.260
Again, all the jokes that Sylvester does all the way through to the end, like they're getting to do all those stupid puns.

905
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:20.940
It should have just stopped after the amnesia stopped.

906
01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:21.599
It's just terrible.

907
01:04:21.659 --> 01:04:23.579
Okay, so it's time in the money for me.

908
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:25.980
It's not in my top 3 worst Doctor Who's of all the time.

909
01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:26.820
It's now number five.

910
01:04:27.420 --> 01:04:31.079
I'm going somewhere that should be...

911
01:04:31.139 --> 01:04:33.179
Then we have Paradise Towers.

912
01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:34.739
A really good script.

913
01:04:34.860 --> 01:04:38.880
What the hell the director was thinking. do not know.

914
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:40.019
The Kangs.

915
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.539
Oh my god, Julie Brennan is just shrill and awful.

916
01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:47.099
I like the other one and she gets better throughout and has a nice relationship with McCoy.

917
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:50.340
And again, I've said that I like Sylvester's performance generally through this.

918
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:52.739
The music is horrific.

919
01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:54.539
I get a headache.

920
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:59.940
The lighting is appalling, and I know we're trying to do some lighting, but God knows it just doesn't work.

921
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:07.559
Oh, the caretakers, whatever, the residents, whatever. except for Tabby and Tilda, who I quite like, but not as much as I thought.

922
01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:11.219
I like the one that goes cooey, cooey, like...

923
01:05:11.219 --> 01:05:13.139
She is...

924
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:17.099
And if this had a different pitch to it, she would be just, oh, amazing.

925
01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:21.179
The cliffhanger with Mel with that bat toasting fork.

926
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:22.019
Toasting fork?

927
01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:30.480
I have never wanted a moment in Doctor Who history for somebody to go Game of Thrones on us and just stab her in the throat so that in the next episode she just drops dead.

928
01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:32.400
I've never wanted it more in my entire life.

929
01:05:32.460 --> 01:05:34.619
I'm inching towards Richard Mel?

930
01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:38.760
I have to say that Pex and Mel completely destroy this story.

931
01:05:38.820 --> 01:05:40.920
What's going on in Paris, Toast Towers?

932
01:05:40.980 --> 01:05:45.719
Well, I can tell you, honey, if we edit out all your scenes in the corridor and in that lift, it would be just so much better.

933
01:05:45.780 --> 01:05:53.400
You guys mentioned the stuff about the fact that it was like a pantomime and she's a pantomime princess and he's like the comic sidekick.

934
01:05:53.460 --> 01:05:54.059
Well, that's great.

935
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:57.000
Just doesn't work and it's, it's a horrific performance.

936
01:05:57.059 --> 01:05:58.260
Horrific.

937
01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:59.219
Where am I going with this?

938
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:00.599
I'm going with this breath.

939
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:01.199
No, no, no.

940
01:06:01.260 --> 01:06:01.980
I'm not even there yet.

941
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:03.900
Oh, Richard Bryce.

942
01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:06.780
Well, I mean, if that doesn't take the cake, I don't know what does.

943
01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:09.599
He is just appalling throughout the entire thing.

944
01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:11.400
Yeah, we did say that.

945
01:06:11.460 --> 01:06:13.260
I agree with you.

946
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:14.159
But it's the tone.

947
01:06:14.219 --> 01:06:15.360
Everybody's tone is different.

948
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:27.599
And I do think that, for me, the biggest disappointment here is the fact that the script is good and I can recognise that and recognise it in the book and it's just the performances and I just really dislike Melon Pecks, just take the cake.

949
01:06:27.659 --> 01:06:31.980
And again, you love the scene where he rips that thing off the wall and I just kind of go, are you kidding me?

950
01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:34.380
My eyes are rolling and I just want this thing to stop.

951
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:45.960
And you know, I respect you for, and I can understand, but it's just like, like, this is now on the pedestal of the, it's going for gold in the 3 worst Dr. 2 stories of all time.

952
01:06:46.019 --> 01:06:47.519
Who's the director?

953
01:06:48.179 --> 01:06:50.219
Nicholas Mallon.

954
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:52.079
But what else does Nicholas Mallard do?

955
01:06:52.139 --> 01:06:53.280
The curse of Benrik.

956
01:06:53.340 --> 01:06:53.699
Yeah, yeah.

957
01:06:53.820 --> 01:06:59.039
And is it because he's out of the studio that suddenly he... and he does and he also does Mysterious Planet.

958
01:06:59.099 --> 01:06:59.519
You know?

959
01:06:59.579 --> 01:07:00.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

960
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:02.639
So it's like Peter Moffat on location is so much better.

961
01:07:02.699 --> 01:07:04.260
Except in 2 doctors.

962
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:04.920
Okay, go on.

963
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:09.360
So that, so now I like one episode and the other 7 so far. crap.

964
01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:10.019
All right.

965
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:11.099
Delton the Bundman.

966
01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:18.360
This, when it came out in 997 became my gold standard of the most hated Drop 2 story of all time.

967
01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:26.340
And it held that banner for like, 1987, probably 15 years, 16 years.

968
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:27.780
You refused to buy the DVD.

969
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:29.760
I refused to buy the DVD. refused.

970
01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:31.260
I would have I just refused.

971
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:33.659
Didn't James buy it for you in the end of four.

972
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:34.920
Someone gave it to me, I'm sure.

973
01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:40.679
Anyway, the worst thing about children's Batman. is Delta and the Bannerman.

974
01:07:40.739 --> 01:07:43.139
She is so shrill.

975
01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:44.579
I just want her to die.

976
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:50.820
In fact, I'm not an advocate for genocide, but again, but I just want the shimmer dead.

977
01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:52.320
I want her and her child to be destroyed.

978
01:07:52.380 --> 01:07:54.300
I could not agree with Gavrock more.

979
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:58.199
I agree with Richard where he says, Oh, Billy, I mean, he's just a waste of space.

980
01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:00.300
But you were saying like they were going to eat him.

981
01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:10.920
I actually had it the other way around where he takes that stuff and becomes like Mark Gatis in that doctor episode where it becomes that whole scorpion thing just to consume them.

982
01:08:10.980 --> 01:08:12.960
Oh my god, I hate that woman so much.

983
01:08:13.019 --> 01:08:15.119
Then flames.

984
01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:19.260
Then you've got, you've got the Bannerman.

985
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:22.619
The moment they stick out their tongues. just want to reach for a bucket.

986
01:08:22.680 --> 01:08:27.720
And then you were telling us, Brendan, that it was Gavrock's idea, Don Henderson.

987
01:08:27.779 --> 01:08:29.039
I can't stand him.

988
01:08:29.100 --> 01:08:38.220
He looks like he's from an old person's home where he's been allowed to sit in his own faeces and I just...

989
01:08:38.220 --> 01:08:39.239
I just can't.

990
01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:43.319
And when he speaks out that piece of ham, I'm just thinking, oh, my God, just die.

991
01:08:43.380 --> 01:08:45.779
And that old beekeeper.

992
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:46.859
That beekeeper.

993
01:08:46.920 --> 01:08:52.020
I just have all of this manuka honey to fall all over him and put a 1000 bees to sting him to death.

994
01:08:52.140 --> 01:08:56.579
Does he have to hammer it home one more 2nd that she's going through some sort of metamorphosis?

995
01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:57.119
I don't know.

996
01:08:57.180 --> 01:08:59.039
And on top of all of that, people.

997
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:03.840
You then got the worst incidental score in the history of Doctor Who.

998
01:09:03.899 --> 01:09:14.939
I know you love it, Nathan, but I just think it just, it adds no suspense, nothing, nothing at all to the show, and I discovered I really hate late 1950s rock music.

999
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:16.739
I like 1960s pop so much more.

1000
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:23.939
So throughout this entire production of Delta and the Man, these things, in my face that I'm going, I know why I hated this.

1001
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:26.699
You still give it a solid 8 though. don't they?

1002
01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:27.479
Give it a six.

1003
01:09:28.380 --> 01:09:29.939
Six.

1004
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.979
But, and this is what I discovered when I last watched it.

1005
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:37.739
Ken Dodd is fantastic.

1006
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:38.699
Yes.

1007
01:09:38.699 --> 01:09:40.199
It really is.

1008
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:48.420
Burton is one of the best characters in the history of Doctor Who, and I just adore him to death.

1009
01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:54.539
And the other person who I think is just stunning is the bus driver Murray.

1010
01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:57.180
Horrific end.

1011
01:09:57.180 --> 01:09:58.500
He's lovely.

1012
01:09:58.500 --> 01:09:59.880
He's just lovely.

1013
01:09:59.939 --> 01:10:01.199
He is the biggest revelation.

1014
01:10:01.260 --> 01:10:03.359
And those 3 people.

1015
01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:07.439
And one other, keep me watching this show.

1016
01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:09.840
Oh, who's the other?

1017
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:11.880
Bonnie Langford.

1018
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:14.159
I think it's her best performance.

1019
01:10:14.220 --> 01:10:15.060
I agree.

1020
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:25.739
And episode one, that outfit, everybody goes on about the other one, the denim one, but that blue and white thing that she's wearing is just stunning.

1021
01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:28.319
It's super on trend for 1987.

1022
01:10:29.340 --> 01:10:31.020
She's so good.

1023
01:10:31.140 --> 01:10:35.279
Unfortunately, she gets to scream at a green baby and she gets saved again.

1024
01:10:35.279 --> 01:10:36.239
Yes.

1025
01:10:36.300 --> 01:10:38.399
And she gets to say that immortal light.

1026
01:10:38.460 --> 01:10:41.760
I never won anything before in my life, making her such a loser.

1027
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:44.039
I hate it when TV coaches do that.

1028
01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:47.399
I hated this story for so long.

1029
01:10:47.460 --> 01:10:48.840
And then we did watch it together.

1030
01:10:48.899 --> 01:10:51.180
And I did find myself enjoying it.

1031
01:10:51.239 --> 01:10:54.060
And those aspects when I rewatched it this time came through.

1032
01:10:54.119 --> 01:11:01.500
So it's this thing that you guys were saying about the tone of this season, the inconsistency in performance and tone.

1033
01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:03.000
I really have a problem with.

1034
01:11:03.060 --> 01:11:12.420
And for me, incidental scores actually really set a tone for all things and not having, and I think that actively works against more enjoyment, I think.

1035
01:11:12.539 --> 01:11:16.500
Three stories in a row with Kev McCulloch's music.

1036
01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:18.960
I mean, you I know you really love the Delta.

1037
01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:21.239
Well, I'm not sure I don't like that.

1038
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:22.020
But I don't.

1039
01:11:22.079 --> 01:11:25.380
And so it really, by that point, you know, it's really, really tough.

1040
01:11:25.439 --> 01:11:30.239
We then get Dragonfire, and I agree with you all that it's not the best script.

1041
01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:34.739
In fact, I really don't like a lot of the cafe scenes and that woman and that little girl.

1042
01:11:34.859 --> 01:11:36.779
I've never wanted the ogre back more.

1043
01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:41.399
You get my meaning and fans true fans will.

1044
01:11:41.460 --> 01:11:45.720
But it's much more consistent in tone in terms of the villains.

1045
01:11:45.779 --> 01:11:50.880
And I like Kane, and like all of his henchmen, they all have some sort of little story, all those cards, and you get that.

1046
01:11:50.939 --> 01:11:56.399
I like the autumn water mix of Mel and Ace.

1047
01:11:56.460 --> 01:12:01.619
And Brendan, you talked about the I spy stuff and all those sequences.

1048
01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:03.119
I just chuckle through them. fantastic.

1049
01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:12.720
Um, Sylvester's generally good except when he doctor decides to commit suicide and then climb all over um, glitz, which I just roll my eyes going, please.

1050
01:12:12.779 --> 01:12:21.359
So for me, it wins out for the season because it's more consistent. 2 other aspects that I've mentioned is the incidental score.

1051
01:12:21.420 --> 01:12:26.100
And I just think it's phenomenal in this and it knits this story together, right?

1052
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:26.939
It really does.

1053
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:30.180
And the other thing is, is Tony Serby is several on glitz.

1054
01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:38.760
I used to dismiss him as glitz light, but he's just got a warmth team and in every scene that he's in, I just watch him and he brings it all together.

1055
01:12:38.819 --> 01:12:40.739
Sylvester is still trying to find where he's at.

1056
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:42.300
Sophie's new at it.

1057
01:12:42.359 --> 01:12:45.000
Bonnie's dealing with, well, you know, the character that is no character.

1058
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:48.359
And there's just something about him in this.

1059
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:54.060
So, in the end, no, I don't really like watching a lot of it.

1060
01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:56.159
Yes, I can watch it, right?

1061
01:12:56.220 --> 01:13:02.100
Thank God it's not Eric Saywood. thank goodness we don't have to sit through 14 episodes for no resolution.

1062
01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:04.140
We get changes every 4 weeks.

1063
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:06.180
I can see glimpses of Sylvester.

1064
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:09.659
The fact that we don't have the past.

1065
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:13.920
Jonathan Turner allows, Cardinal and the team.

1066
01:13:13.979 --> 01:13:15.840
They don't get it right.

1067
01:13:15.899 --> 01:13:18.600
Sometimes you miss the ball's eye, but you eventually will hit.

1068
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:23.760
And it will hit for the next 2 years, and especially the next story.

1069
01:13:23.819 --> 01:13:28.560
Sorry, I do apologise if I've offended anybody in my rant.

1070
01:13:28.619 --> 01:13:32.760
You know, Dr. Manarin is no longer my worst, least favourite Dr. Story of Time.

1071
01:13:32.819 --> 01:13:37.380
It probably is in the bottom 10 because of various things, but there's characters in there that I enjoy.

1072
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:46.079
I mean, I think that season 24, as we said, is a relief, and I think script wise, it's just streets ahead of anything we've had for years.

1073
01:13:46.140 --> 01:13:51.600
But the show at this time, it's only 14 episodes a year.

1074
01:13:51.659 --> 01:13:53.460
It's shot entirely on videotape.

1075
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:56.340
It really does take on a children's television aesthetic.

1076
01:13:56.399 --> 01:14:16.140
And certainly, I've said this on the podcast before, that I was horrified by the 1st episode of Time and the Rani when I 1st watched it on broadcast, because in Australia, it was 5.30 in the afternoon, remember, it just seemed like a children's show set on a game show set, you know, and...

1077
01:14:16.140 --> 01:14:17.640
Yeah, and I agree.

1078
01:14:17.699 --> 01:14:24.539
And I thought it was horrific, and I thought, I can now see what Monnie Langford is trying to do in all those sequences.

1079
01:14:24.539 --> 01:14:29.819
She's given the worst dialogue ever, and she's trying to inject life and stuff into it with Icona.

1080
01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:33.239
And previously they had superseded her and Pex.

1081
01:14:33.300 --> 01:14:34.680
But now I can see what she's trying to do.

1082
01:14:34.739 --> 01:14:36.600
Yeah, no, I think he's very good.

1083
01:14:36.659 --> 01:14:37.800
Yeah, I think he is.

1084
01:14:37.920 --> 01:14:44.819
And so, you know, like I think it's production problems more than anything else and it's teething issues.

1085
01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:49.380
But just there's so little cannibalism in that sense.

1086
01:14:49.500 --> 01:14:53.520
You know, and and there's...

1087
01:14:53.579 --> 01:14:55.079
There is crochet.

1088
01:14:55.140 --> 01:14:56.220
We're not looking backwards.

1089
01:14:56.279 --> 01:14:57.539
No, we're looking outwards.

1090
01:14:57.600 --> 01:14:58.800
Yeah, yeah.

1091
01:14:58.859 --> 01:14:59.640
There's a relief.

1092
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:05.039
When you watch, you bring back the emotions you had at that time as well, and I'm fighting those.

1093
01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:07.380
Yeah, yeah, smarting from Collins dismissal.

1094
01:15:07.500 --> 01:15:08.159
Yeah, yeah.

1095
01:15:08.220 --> 01:15:11.579
And so when you see a script like Paradise Towers and you know what it could be.

1096
01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:12.300
Yeah.

1097
01:15:12.300 --> 01:15:21.779
I think another thing is, you know, we talked about, well, I talked about with Bonnie being kind of a return to 1st principles of, you know, what is it, what is a companion?

1098
01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:22.739
What is their function in the show?

1099
01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:32.819
A problem the show has had since Douglas Adams is it's trying to appeal to children and it's trying to appeal to adolescents and it's trying to appeal to adults.

1100
01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:37.079
And I think in the 80s it started to skew things more towards the appealing to adults.

1101
01:15:37.140 --> 01:15:41.760
No, I think it's appealing towards to like teenage boys.

1102
01:15:42.300 --> 01:15:44.159
Yep, fair enough.

1103
01:15:44.220 --> 01:15:44.939
But that's the thing.

1104
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:46.199
Until season 24.

1105
01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:52.260
It's been a few years since we've had something that appeals to children 12 and under.

1106
01:15:52.319 --> 01:15:54.779
But I think it's also appealing to adults.

1107
01:15:54.840 --> 01:16:03.180
Like, I think that your parents wouldn't watch the Colin Baker era because it's all space corridors and kind of unmotivated cruelty.

1108
01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:10.439
This, I think the, the, um, the Delta and the Bannerman is precisely the sort of thing that you could watch with your mom.

1109
01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:11.699
Yeah, absolutely.

1110
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:14.159
But I think what they do with Time and the Rani is.

1111
01:16:14.220 --> 01:16:19.140
Andrew Cartmel kind of writes time in the Rani off, he's like, look, I can't really put my stamp on this.

1112
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:20.699
You know, we're too deep into scripting it.

1113
01:16:20.819 --> 01:16:23.760
So time and the Rani is squarely aimed at children.

1114
01:16:24.180 --> 01:16:25.920
Being frank.

1115
01:16:25.979 --> 01:16:27.899
And I watched it when I was seven.

1116
01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:28.560
It was perfect.

1117
01:16:29.579 --> 01:16:31.380
Very quickly.

1118
01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:33.420
We start getting into Doctor Who where, right?

1119
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:39.060
something for the kids and there's something for the teenagers and there's something for mum and dad just like it was with Tom Baker.

1120
01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:41.460
And I think by Delta they do hit that.

1121
01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:56.340
Well, I think one of the ways that we see the show inching towards the new series is that the new series becomes family viewing again and it's not just the sort of thing that bookish teenagers want to watch.

1122
01:16:56.399 --> 01:17:07.920
And point of controversy that I often have with dear JR Southall over at Blue Box, is I do wonder in the last 2 seasons of Peter Capaldi, how much is in there for children?

1123
01:17:07.979 --> 01:17:10.800
You know, it's, the general viewer.

1124
01:17:11.279 --> 01:17:21.600
It's going to be a big challenge for the new showrunner, considering his comments on record, back in 1986 regarding Peter Jane Baker on the state of the show.

1125
01:17:21.779 --> 01:17:24.899
Because he doesn't want that to come around and bite him in the bum.

1126
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:28.680
Yeah, well, as I said, you know, Chris Gibble takes the advice.

1127
01:17:28.739 --> 01:17:31.319
If you don't like it, you drive very seriously.

1128
01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:36.600
Okay, so top 3 stories.

1129
01:17:36.659 --> 01:17:38.819
Mind changes each week.

1130
01:17:39.060 --> 01:17:42.359
I would have to put happiness patrol up there.

1131
01:17:42.420 --> 01:17:45.359
I would have to put Greater Show in the Galaxy up there.

1132
01:17:45.420 --> 01:17:47.279
I would.

1133
01:17:47.819 --> 01:18:01.680
Uh, I'm kind of inclined to put ghost line up there, but that obviously leaves some really incredible stories that I haven't even mentioned, you know, there's more than 3 stone cold classics here.

1134
01:18:02.220 --> 01:18:04.380
And ask me next week and it'll be different.

1135
01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:07.319
Are they the best ones or the ones I enjoy the most?

1136
01:18:07.380 --> 01:18:08.460
No, the 2nd one.

1137
01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:14.760
I think the ones that I had the most fun with, one from each season, I'll be I'll partition it that way.

1138
01:18:14.819 --> 01:18:18.420
The ones that I had the most fun with at the time and still do.

1139
01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:21.899
Delta and the Bannerman, Silver Nemesis.

1140
01:18:22.260 --> 01:18:24.720
I just love it. so much fun.

1141
01:18:24.779 --> 01:18:27.359
I laugh all the way. really do.

1142
01:18:27.420 --> 01:18:33.300
I would stick it on my Christmas tree in whatever metaphor you want.

1143
01:18:33.359 --> 01:18:35.760
I really do. just adore it.

1144
01:18:35.819 --> 01:18:43.319
I even find Battlefield a lot of fun to watch, but I think Fenwick, just because it's set in World War 2 and everything about it is beautifully made.

1145
01:18:43.380 --> 01:18:47.579
But if you're going to say, what's the most fun for me of the 3rd season?

1146
01:18:47.640 --> 01:18:52.619
Um, yeah, it's probably bad. is incredibly fun.

1147
01:18:52.739 --> 01:19:00.119
My personal top three, and it's not necessarily stories, I give 10 out of 10 two, but actually, I'm going to do what Richard did, which is one from each season.

1148
01:19:00.180 --> 01:19:10.260
So, Ghostlight, which I just think is sublime, and even with the stuff cut out, but still works, unlike Fenrick, uh, greater show in the gallery.

1149
01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:11.819
No, sorry, sorry, happiness patrol.

1150
01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:19.800
Happiness patrol for the 2nd season. so angry and sad and +and angry.

1151
01:19:19.859 --> 01:19:22.859
Again, and...

1152
01:19:22.920 --> 01:19:29.460
Look, for the 1st season, this one is entirely subjective, it's time in the Rani.

1153
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:30.000
Yay.

1154
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:32.939
It's by no means the best story of that season.

1155
01:19:33.060 --> 01:19:34.859
You're a little person.

1156
01:19:34.859 --> 01:19:35.520
I was a little person.

1157
01:19:35.579 --> 01:19:36.600
It's still not that big.

1158
01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:41.939
And it's the, it's when I pressed record for the 1st time.

1159
01:19:42.060 --> 01:19:43.739
Oh, that's why.

1160
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:44.880
That's the thing.

1161
01:19:44.939 --> 01:19:57.119
I have memory of being like 10 centimetres away from the screen and pressing the button and just sitting there while Mel got diffused from the bubble until my mum came into the room and told me to get back from the television.

1162
01:19:57.239 --> 01:20:00.720
Like, just because that cliffhanger, I'm like, I need to know.

1163
01:20:00.779 --> 01:20:01.920
I've been at school all day.

1164
01:20:01.979 --> 01:20:02.699
What's happened?

1165
01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:05.579
Yeah, so those are my three.

1166
01:20:05.760 --> 01:20:07.920
Time and the Rani.

1167
01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:13.500
So time in the Rani for the nostalgia, happiness patrol for the politics and ghostlight fruits script.

1168
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:18.239
All right, my top 4 are in this order, coming forward.

1169
01:20:18.720 --> 01:20:23.340
Coming 3rd ghost light, coming 2nd remembrance of the Daleks and 1st Happiness Patrol.

1170
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:25.920
They are sublime, and I can barely fault.

1171
01:20:25.979 --> 01:20:27.600
Any of them.

1172
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.779
Yeah, it's amazing that that's the 1st time.

1173
01:20:30.779 --> 01:20:34.199
Anyone's side of remembrance because that's the one we always go back and watch.

1174
01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:35.340
Yeah.

1175
01:20:35.340 --> 01:20:35.880
Yeah.

1176
01:20:35.939 --> 01:20:37.619
Yeah, I think with me with remembrance.

1177
01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:38.760
It's kind of like, that's a given.

1178
01:20:38.819 --> 01:20:40.140
Yeah, it's actually too easy.

1179
01:20:40.260 --> 01:20:41.460
Okay.

1180
01:20:41.520 --> 01:20:42.420
Bottom three.

1181
01:20:42.479 --> 01:20:43.140
Oh, okay.

1182
01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:46.739
Planet of the bottoms, curse of the fatal bottoms.

1183
01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:48.000
They sound great.

1184
01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:49.920
Yeah, no, it's everyone we know.

1185
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:51.779
Don't have to give bottom 3 if you don't think there is.

1186
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:53.939
No, I'm going to do one from each season again.

1187
01:20:54.000 --> 01:21:06.060
So I'm going to say Dragonfire, not because it's actually bad, but just because I think that evenness of tone that it has compared to everything else makes it less interesting. interesting in itself.

1188
01:21:06.119 --> 01:21:09.779
Second season, it's silver nemesis, which I've said before.

1189
01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:11.520
Again, I don't think it's bad.

1190
01:21:11.579 --> 01:21:15.420
It still gets a 6 out of 10 from me, but just it's surrounded by so much good stuff.

1191
01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:18.060
God, the last season this is hard.

1192
01:21:18.180 --> 01:21:23.880
Look, I can't pick, but it's between Battlefield for poor execution and Fenrick for poor editing.

1193
01:21:23.939 --> 01:21:34.739
I think, yeah, it probably goes to Battlefield because even the special edition of Battlefield doesn't get around the Poor Direction, whereas the special edition of Fenrick solves the problems with the editing.

1194
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:39.899
So, yeah, Dragonfire, Silver Nemesis, Battlefield.

1195
01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:46.079
I think my bottom 3 are probably coincident with Richard's top three.

1196
01:21:46.920 --> 01:22:01.979
I would have to say that I probably actually would have to agree with Brendan, in that I think probably Dragonfire is the worst of the era, just because it's in essential, not because it's poorly made or offensive in any way.

1197
01:22:02.039 --> 01:22:05.100
But just that it is kind of forgettable.

1198
01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:14.579
And then I think Silver Nemesis is a mess and not necessary in a season that has remembrance of the daleks.

1199
01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:26.039
And then battlefield is so spoiled by the direction and the music as Todd said last week that it's my least favourite of that season.

1200
01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:28.140
But they actually...

1201
01:22:28.859 --> 01:22:35.579
Like Bo Silver Nemesis and Battlefield are enjoyable to watch.

1202
01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:42.000
And I think if you have an era, yeah, if you have an era where there, your turkeys.

1203
01:22:42.060 --> 01:22:42.960
Do you know what I mean?

1204
01:22:43.020 --> 01:22:45.359
then you're doing pretty well, I think.

1205
01:22:45.420 --> 01:22:46.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1206
01:22:46.199 --> 01:22:47.399
Like, I agree with you.

1207
01:22:47.460 --> 01:22:50.340
I enjoy battlefield, but it has a lot of faults.

1208
01:22:50.399 --> 01:22:51.180
Yeah, yeah.

1209
01:22:51.180 --> 01:22:52.500
But I'm not going to put into my bottom three.

1210
01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:57.779
Nemesis, I just can't stand any sequence without fan of Walker and the skinheads.

1211
01:22:57.779 --> 01:23:00.359
I mean, that just, what's his name?

1212
01:23:00.420 --> 01:23:03.119
You are the giants and weird.

1213
01:23:03.180 --> 01:23:06.000
We are the Superman, whatever, he's just appalling.

1214
01:23:06.060 --> 01:23:06.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1215
01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:08.220
Like, you can literally cut...

1216
01:23:08.279 --> 01:23:16.079
I'd like somebody out there to actually tell me in terms if you actually added up the timing for Fiona Walker's on-screen appearance.

1217
01:23:16.140 --> 01:23:19.260
Does that give us one full enjoyable episode to see what it is?

1218
01:23:19.380 --> 01:23:21.000
and 2 of Turkey?

1219
01:23:21.060 --> 01:23:25.920
It's either that or greater show, which I always find a disappointment and I really don't like a lot of episode four.

1220
01:23:25.979 --> 01:23:32.520
So my bottom 3 are nemesis, time in the Rani and Paradise Towers in that order.

1221
01:23:32.579 --> 01:23:33.239
Okay?

1222
01:23:33.300 --> 01:23:35.819
Dalton Madam didn't get there, people. get there.

1223
01:23:35.880 --> 01:23:36.420
Well done.

1224
01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:38.100
If you have to.

1225
01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:39.720
You don't have to.

1226
01:23:39.779 --> 01:23:41.399
You can say, you can say you don't want to.

1227
01:23:41.460 --> 01:23:49.619
Look, again, it comes down to narrative enjoyment and plotting and production, and I do actually think the performers in it and whether that's the directors or whatever, but yeah, I have to do.

1228
01:23:49.739 --> 01:23:56.579
I do have to mention Paradise Towers is clunky and difficult to watch, even though it's so there's so many good things in it.

1229
01:23:56.640 --> 01:24:03.960
Um, I agree, Dragonfire, it still has moments that I laugh and enjoy, but it is clunky again and difficult to watch, perform.

1230
01:24:04.020 --> 01:24:10.439
It's mostly down to performances, not meeting the requirements and they're being big gaps.

1231
01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:12.119
Big black holes to fall into.

1232
01:24:12.180 --> 01:24:20.579
And the other one is greatest show, simply because I don't think the performances are really consistent or even working within their own work and there's a lot of padding.

1233
01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:22.140
I agree with you, Richard.

1234
01:24:22.199 --> 01:24:22.979
A lot of padding.

1235
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:23.579
It looks so good.

1236
01:24:23.640 --> 01:24:25.920
The outside stuff. it does.

1237
01:24:25.979 --> 01:24:28.079
It would have worked really well as a three-parter.

1238
01:24:28.140 --> 01:24:29.520
You know what I would have loved?

1239
01:24:29.579 --> 01:24:34.140
I would have loved an episode where Happiness Patrol went over by 10 minutes and then Greatest Show started.

1240
01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:37.260
Like just to just to mess with all the fans.

1241
01:24:37.260 --> 01:24:43.800
Like, because I think it later showed being condensed a little bit and having this a bit more wonderfulness.

1242
01:24:43.859 --> 01:24:48.060
It just would have been, you know, but that comes back to script editing or not script editing.

1243
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:49.560
We do have to wrap things up.

1244
01:24:49.619 --> 01:24:52.439
So looking forward to the next year, huh?

1245
01:24:52.500 --> 01:24:54.180
which is the Paul Magannia, right?

1246
01:24:54.479 --> 01:25:00.420
I remember next year it was like just years and years of waiting for Doctor Who to come back.

1247
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:03.539
Yeah, well, we're not doing the new adventures.

1248
01:25:03.539 --> 01:25:08.520
But are there any expectations going into the town?

1249
01:25:08.579 --> 01:25:20.520
Well, I've heard so much coming up with it, I can't wait to see, you know, Seaview, SV, DSS 19, you know, in a sense, 90210, whatever it's going to be.

1250
01:25:20.579 --> 01:25:23.460
The next era was watching Star Trek, the Next Generation.

1251
01:25:23.579 --> 01:25:24.720
It was, it actually was.

1252
01:25:25.079 --> 01:25:27.899
I'm really looking forward to the spider.

1253
01:25:27.960 --> 01:25:29.760
Alex, that leaked footage looks amazing.

1254
01:25:29.819 --> 01:25:31.439
Is there footage?

1255
01:25:31.500 --> 01:25:32.159
I saw the drawings.

1256
01:25:33.180 --> 01:25:38.340
There's like a there's like a 52nd VFX reel that's very, very grainy.

1257
01:25:38.460 --> 01:25:39.180
Urah.

1258
01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:42.479
I'm glad that they're making Barusa, the doctor's father.

1259
01:25:42.539 --> 01:25:43.619
Yes, that can only go well.

1260
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:52.800
I really like the fact that in the new series, the Doctor Who, the tochlophane, they bring back the chocolate fane from the telemedia, because the chocolate fane are at the beginning of the television.

1261
01:25:53.340 --> 01:25:55.380
Don't you hear their voices?

1262
01:25:56.460 --> 01:26:05.399
And, you know, I think, yeah, they've got to redesign the TARDIS and a pair of wrapping lips on the console with the voice of Nicholas Courtney is the way to go.

1263
01:26:05.460 --> 01:26:10.439
All of these listeners are things that were actually suggested.

1264
01:26:10.800 --> 01:26:12.779
That's just rude.

1265
01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:14.340
But you know what?

1266
01:26:14.399 --> 01:26:17.279
We're a few years away from the 30th anniversary.

1267
01:26:17.340 --> 01:26:23.100
So I'm sure we'll get some really great anniversary special that we can talk about during the telly movie commentary.

1268
01:26:23.159 --> 01:26:24.840
God, we're not watching that, are we?

1269
01:26:24.899 --> 01:26:25.560
No, no, no.

1270
01:26:25.859 --> 01:26:26.819
I'm not doing that to you.

1271
01:26:26.880 --> 01:26:28.140
Although...

1272
01:26:28.140 --> 01:26:31.199
If I didn't know what was coming.

1273
01:26:31.260 --> 01:26:33.840
What I would want is just...

1274
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.899
I'd want more of the same.

1275
01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:40.199
And that's the 1st time I've said this when you've asked that question.

1276
01:26:40.260 --> 01:26:50.939
You know, because kind of each year of Doctor Who, even if you haven't been sick of it by the end, which generally you're not, but it's kind of like, okay, I'm ready for something new now.

1277
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.579
You have used your safety word, at least on one account.

1278
01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:57.239
We're moving into the genocide. moving in the right direction.

1279
01:26:57.359 --> 01:26:58.140
Exactly.

1280
01:26:58.199 --> 01:27:02.640
It's like, I just want more of this, even if it's with a new cast, even if it comes back in a few years.

1281
01:27:02.699 --> 01:27:16.199
I want a doctor who is mysterious and a bit sad and I want a companion who is a driving force in the story and has her own wants and ambitions and desires.

1282
01:27:16.260 --> 01:27:19.800
A love of opera and an annoying boyfriend called Brian.

1283
01:27:19.859 --> 01:27:20.939
And a trumpet.

1284
01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:21.659
Yes.

1285
01:27:21.720 --> 01:27:24.000
And a John Lennon haircut.

1286
01:27:25.319 --> 01:27:28.199
But yeah, that's my other career.

1287
01:27:28.319 --> 01:27:30.479
That's what I want next doctor to have a wig.

1288
01:27:32.100 --> 01:27:34.739
Billy's wig was fantastic.

1289
01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:37.020
We haven't had a doctor with a wig for a long time.

1290
01:27:37.020 --> 01:27:42.479
And I think a big old unconvincing wig would really sell the next doctor for me.

1291
01:27:42.539 --> 01:27:43.439
BBC?

1292
01:27:43.500 --> 01:27:45.239
I like some sort of clock.

1293
01:27:45.300 --> 01:27:47.460
What kind of clock can we have?

1294
01:27:47.520 --> 01:27:49.500
Oh, every different...

1295
01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:50.220
An atomic clock?

1296
01:27:50.279 --> 01:27:52.920
The most accurate atomic clock in the world.

1297
01:27:53.220 --> 01:27:58.079
Maybe some sort of beard that I think it has to be a ginger beard.

1298
01:27:58.140 --> 01:27:59.520
Yes.

1299
01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:01.739
Something called Gareth.

1300
01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:27.960
Well, listener, that's all the time we have for Alsevist McCoy retrospective, but we'll be back next week, watching the Bloody Telly movie.

1301
01:28:28.020 --> 01:28:30.300
I can't tell you how exciting it was 21 years ago.

1302
01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:31.619
Does it hold up?

1303
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:33.000
Come back and find out.

1304
01:28:33.060 --> 01:28:34.260
Spoiler alert?

1305
01:28:34.380 --> 01:28:34.800
No.

1306
01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:44.399
This is, I might or might not be back depending on, if I'm locked, being locked in a cupboard after this.

1307
01:28:46.859 --> 01:28:49.739
Well, we're just a bit worried about whole genocidal thing, Tot.

1308
01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:55.979
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1309
01:28:56.039 --> 01:28:58.199
Do leave us a review over on Bondfinger.

1310
01:28:58.260 --> 01:29:04.500
That is bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

1311
01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:08.399
Gentlemen, nominations for your Sylvester McCoy commentaries, please.

1312
01:29:08.460 --> 01:29:10.260
I'm going to nominate time in the Rani.

1313
01:29:10.319 --> 01:29:12.539
Golly, Silver Nemesis, obviously.

1314
01:29:13.020 --> 01:29:14.819
That's awesome.

1315
01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:18.300
I'm going to nominate the Happiness Patrol.

1316
01:29:18.539 --> 01:29:24.539
God, somebody's done something of quality because I'm going to nominate battle fool.

1317
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:27.840
So that is the Happiness Patrol.

1318
01:29:27.899 --> 01:29:31.020
Battlefield, Silver Nemesis, and Time and the Rani.

1319
01:29:31.079 --> 01:29:32.579
So do vote on that on our website.

1320
01:29:32.640 --> 01:29:36.300
But until next week, may nobody play the spoons on your cleavage.

1321
01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:37.199
Thank you, Sylvester.

1322
01:29:37.260 --> 01:29:37.920
Thank you, Sophie.

1323
01:29:37.979 --> 01:29:42.119
Thank you, Bonnie, Andrew, and JNT, and thank you all for listening and good night.

1324
01:29:42.180 --> 01:29:43.199
Good night.

1325
01:29:43.260 --> 01:29:43.979
See you soon.

1326
01:29:44.039 --> 01:29:44.520
Thank you.

1327
01:30:01.020 --> 01:30:07.020
That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone.

1328
01:30:07.079 --> 01:30:10.439
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, logo designed by Anthony Wells.

1329
01:30:10.500 --> 01:30:15.659
This episode, Advocate for Genocide, was recorded on October the 7th, 2017.

1330
01:30:15.899 --> 01:30:18.899
The next episode will be released on November 26th.

1331
01:30:22.319 --> 01:30:26.880
We wish to dedicate this episode to the memories of Dudley Simpson, Patty Russell.

1332
01:30:26.939 --> 01:30:32.100
Why not pull out your copy of Pyramids of Mars, wrap yourself up in bandages, and have a go on the Marimba.

1333
01:30:36.479 --> 01:30:39.779
The Sylvester McCoy retrospective...

1334
01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:43.140
Sorry, retrospective.

1335
01:30:43.199 --> 01:30:45.779
Thank you, I can't do that. 7th of October.

1336
01:30:46.079 --> 01:30:47.579
Really?