WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:26:24

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Hello and welcome to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast, working for the good of your colony.

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Remember, report anyone who thinks there is such thing as, oh, I

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don't know what I was going to say.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm wearing mutant crowd claws and looking a bit perplexed.

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Which can only mean one thing.

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There's no such thing as Richie wearing New York type of crap

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quals and looking at perplexed.

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The insects.

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Yes.

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As we go into the doesn't exist terror.

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Yes.

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This is fine.

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I'm sure it's not fun.

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No, it's not yours.

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I'm not even asterisk here on my notes.

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I can talk about it.

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We've got new credits.

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Exciting new credits.

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We have exciting new credits with Patrick Trouton's mushing them

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which don't exist.

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Well, those ones don't, but we can't sort of see what it looks

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like, and it is the 1st time, and we went a long time in the new

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series without the doctor's face in the credits, and now we've got

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sort of looming terrifying capalli eyebrows coming at us from out

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of a giant clock.

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Yeah, so it is.

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We did briefly have a little bit of Matt Smith's smoky, shadowy

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face.

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A la the original Sylvester McCoy titles.

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I actually quite like that.

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But I like this.

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Sandup, as usual, mentions that this is a doctor who looks out of

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the television at you quite a lot.

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He's quite, you know, often portrayed on screens, looking out and

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stuff.

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And so this is, he's looking out, smiling beneficently at you from

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the television and it does tell us something about his approach to

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Doctor Who in that he is now unashamedly the hero of the show.

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Yes.

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We talked last episode about how the show had bedded itself down

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how it had found the thing it's going to do for the next 47

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years.

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It's going to be bases under siege, spoiler alert.

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And he's the hero of that.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So, and so naturally he gets his face in the opening credits.

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And look at me talking.

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So who's going, is it?

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It's my go.

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Oh, okay.

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Me?

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This is my story.

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And I have to say, I think this one is absolutely the highlight of

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Patrick Troughton's 1st season.

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I know that's quite controversial in a season that also includes

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Power of the Dialects and Evil, but I will I will go on and

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explain.

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Now already we have had in this season the setup of the base

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underseage idea.

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But already we're subverting that because here we do have a base

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under siege.

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We got the colony under siege by grotesque insects, the macro

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which are actually giant crabs, phrasing.

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But the twist here is the base doesn't know it's under siege.

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In all the other base under siege stories we see, sort of when the

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doctor arrives, you've got the leader character saying, oh, yes

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well, we've got this problem here, and, you know, we're going to a

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rescue because you're up this new path, but the doctor says, no

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I'm not.

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Oh, no, you aren't, right?

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You can help us solve it.

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Whereas this one, The doctor turns up and says, oh, there's

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something wrong here.

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And everyone says, no, there isn't.

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We're all happy.

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We're all fine.

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So, Already we're subverting that great idea.

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Although, now this is our, this is our 2nd ever earth colony in

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the future, and the 1st earth colony in the future is power of the

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dialects, and power of the dialects was an earth colony that

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didn't realise it was under threats and thought that everything

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was okay.

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And as the audience, we knew that was all going to sort of turn

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into a sort of giant bloody massacre at the end and we spent some

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time waiting for it.

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Here.

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Here it's very different, isn't it?

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And within the space, like the conception of what an Earth colony

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is going to look like, goes from something that's sort of fairly

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standard to something that's much more crazy and whimsical, and I

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think we'll talk about why that is later.

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But so it is different from the base under siege thing, which we

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just said was, you know, had just been established.

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And we know as viewers, of course, that if there's, uh, if it's a

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Doctor Who story and someone's blathering on about monsters and

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things, uh, that, that, uh, we're going to be on the side, that

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thinks the monsters are real, you know, they're not going to be

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made up.

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And of course, in that role, you have the brilliant Terence

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Launch.

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I think I stayed there on holiday work.

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He plays a very similar role in some early Avengers stories.

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He's in some very good on a black man episodes such as the ringer

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and the man with 2 shadows and in the man with 2 shadows.

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Again, he's playing a brainwash character who has seen something.

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He's seen an enemy plan, but his mind is so broken that he can't

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say what it is.

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So does he meet off?

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He's Me Doc.

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That's right.

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And you've got Peter Jeffrey as well as the colony's pilot.

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He's a great appearance.

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He's always...

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He was a win cast for them.

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They hadn't had a major name on his level before.

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Was he made City?

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Well, you know, BBC at the time.

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Yeah, sure, in-house, but there was a bit of pre-propulosity for

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him.

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Yeah, well, very few photographs exist for the story, but those

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that do exist. tend to put him to the forefront in his very nice

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tunic and whatnot.

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What we can see of the story, it seems to be very well designed

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and a bit like in Stuart Black's previous story of the Savages, you

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know, they've really thought about the designs of this culture

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where everything is not as it seems.

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And in Stuart Black.

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This is his last script for the series, but in the 3 scripts he

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writes, there's a very clear sort of attitude from him, which

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would become quite traditional in 1970s, Doctor Who, of on the

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surface, everything is fine.

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But if you scratch the surface, you get into something really

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really nasty.

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And what's worse, there are people who know how nasty it is and

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they're doing nothing.

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So savages was very much like that.

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Savage was very much like that, yeah.

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And also the war machines, because you've got these respectable

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people, a professor and an ex- army man making these robots to

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take over the world.

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People know what's going on, but they're powerless to act because

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of the bureaucracy of the world itself.

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He's a very complex scriptwriter in Stuart Blake.

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He is not, I would say, as successful when he comes to writing the

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novels, his pro style is rather excitable.

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Again, much like the underwater Venice.

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I've taken a few notes.

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Now, for instance, within the 1st 30 pages of the book.

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I'm cutting you free, the doctor informed him blandly.

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That's not very polite, said the doctor blandly.

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The doctor turned to him blandly.

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I'm only trying to help you.

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Uh, it's just been strange.

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Not a lot of colour and flavour in that.

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You know, I think I think the novel was the 1st time that I ever

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sort of encountered the story and I have to say I quite liked it.

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Oh, I quite like it too.

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It's just it's just the writing style is a bit sort of odd.

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It's bland perhaps.

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Bland, yes.

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They don't improve much of the doctor.

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Did he not realise how desperate the situation was?

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And my own personal favourite.

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What are they doing?

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Polly wanted to know.

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We call that probing Medok Tolman.

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But at the same time, to be fair, something he's able to do in the

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novels is he really gets across the ideas he wants to put forward

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in the story.

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So this is an extract, I just highlighted, not because they amused

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me, but because I really thought it was funny.

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Another way of exercising powers over them, like voices in the

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night.

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The colony was nothing more but a multitude of marionettes, the

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strings being pulled by someone or something that they knew

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nothing about.

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And that short segment has 3 exclamation points, which I believe

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makes it a contender for an article in Doctor Who magazine.

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But in that paragraph.

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He really gets across the point of, you know, these people are

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being controlled.

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It's, he seems to be very much a boy's own writer, but with huge

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ideas and I really love that sort of melding.

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Well, I think that, I mean, I said this before when we were doing

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the savages, I think this is about capitalism and that it's a

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definite satire of capitalism and or maybe an allegory.

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So, you know, Power of Daleks at a very realist kind of approach

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to what a colony was like, this is a sort of strange colony that's

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a bit like a holiday camp and then dancing and there's someone who

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announces, you know, there's an announcer with an American accent

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who talks about, you know, what's happening next in the colony and

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gives you all these messages.

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You know, you will work hard and happily and all of these slogans

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and things and everyone is working in the colony and they're

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working really hard and they're mining gas and no one knows what

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the gas is for, you know, and when the doctor asks what's going

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on.

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Like why are people going to these great lengths and doing all

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this work to produce the gas?

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Everyone's evasive as if they've never, it's never occurred to

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them to ask the question before.

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And it turns out that the gas is being used to benefit the macra

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who are underlying the colony and controlling it.

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And so it is that idea that our labour is alienated from us.

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It's used to enrich other people.

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You know, that we work hard and everything in the colony is about

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working hard. you know, you work hard and happy happily, all of

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that, and it's to enrich, it's to enrich the macra and the macra

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our enemies.

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So, and we don't realise it.

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And the doctor essentially smashes capitalism in the, in, in, in

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this story is sort of resolution, and he's really happy about it

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as well.

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And we saw that in the savages, you know, where they were

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destroying the machinery of the entire system.

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It has the same outcome.

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So um, So I mean, there are sort of potentially dodgy things

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aren't there?

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You know, they've colonised an inhabited planet and, you know

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there are macro there and, you know, why aren't we on the macro

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side?

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But the macra are, you know, just sort of part of the allegory

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they're very ill defined.

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They're bacteria or insects or, you know, crabs, you know, we

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don't know, but they're malevolent and they're not acting in our

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interest, but we are mysteriously doing everything they say and

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working incredibly hard just to keep them alive.

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It's very much the sort of the sort of thing that the occupy

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movement is stating as well.

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You know, the idea that it's not the lower classes who are the

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parasites, because a parasite is something that manages to live

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off the host animal without being noticed, and the occupied

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movement goes on to say a bit like the top one% of people who own

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99% of the world.

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Exactly.

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And so Ben gets hypnotised and ends up supporting the camp.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Which is very, it's very confronting because he is the most

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working class character of the 4 regulars.

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And I think that that's why that's why it happens to him because

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um, like, again, Sandra says this is a holiday camp.

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It's like Buttlands.

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Delta and the Bannerman.

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Perhaps Ben went to one of these on his holidays.

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He does actually mention, yeah, this is like the holiday camps

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when I was a kid.

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And it's also just...

251
00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:58.500
I heard of it.

252
00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.279
And the sound of it is pirate radio, just before radio one started

253
00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:03.120
radio Caroline.

254
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:07.559
You know the story of pirate radio, outside Britain, where the

255
00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:11.460
funky sounds were coming illegally because the BBC was so dull and

256
00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:14.279
they, the mile, you know, just like the Goody's pirate radio

257
00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.200
station, which is a documentary of the time.

258
00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:17.460
Yes.

259
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:22.259
So, so, um, Now I walk into Black Park.

260
00:12:22.379 --> 00:12:27.840
So I think that the reason that Ben falls for this isn't that he's

261
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:30.840
working class and it's a holiday camp.

262
00:12:30.899 --> 00:12:34.919
It's that he's working class and the only way that the working

263
00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.440
class is kept, he's kept compliant.

264
00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:41.399
He's on a steady diet of this sort of mystification. where they're

265
00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.639
constantly reassured that their work is essential for the

266
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.299
functioning of the society, even though they themselves derive no

267
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:48.960
benefit from it.

268
00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:53.399
And so I think I think that that's why Ben falls prey to it.

269
00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:57.600
But the fun thing, of course, is the Ben isn't a robot or anything

270
00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:58.019
like that.

271
00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:59.279
He's not an automaton.

272
00:12:59.340 --> 00:13:06.419
He's not Jackie Lane or even Polly mesmerised by Wotan.

273
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.039
He's still, you know, Ben.

274
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:09.899
It's just that he's...

275
00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.899
It's a really beautiful point that you bring up, and that's why I

276
00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:14.460
think their writing in this is very elegant.

277
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.179
And this is actually, possibly, politically and socially the most

278
00:13:18.179 --> 00:13:21.120
significant trout and story or Doctor Who story of this season.

279
00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:25.019
It's such a shame that the prisoner comes along later in the year

280
00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:27.840
and does it on a bigger budget so much better.

281
00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:31.799
Because the ideas are as salient and just as strong.

282
00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:36.179
You could say that this is about all, um, and that, you know, you

283
00:13:36.179 --> 00:13:38.759
know, that this, this is about brainwashing and the it Chris file

284
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:42.360
and the smilest people stuff that we've seen with the Lacaro films

285
00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:43.860
and um, Alec Guinness.

286
00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.259
These are not the spies you're looking for.

287
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.159
That sort of thing.

288
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:48.840
Well, it's actually, you're right.

289
00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.440
It's about Saltzen Heightsen, Alexander Salton Heightsen and his

290
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:54.659
novels, but it's also just as much about the USA.

291
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:58.139
And the same way that we were being fed in misinformation about

292
00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:03.600
what was going on, Vietnam, and the psychology that Madison Avenue

293
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.000
was using to tell us to be good little consumers.

294
00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:07.080
It's really clever.

295
00:14:07.259 --> 00:14:12.120
Because this is the 1st use of like radio jingles, which I don't

296
00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:13.139
think, do you know what I mean?

297
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.000
Which is a Radio Caroline sound.

298
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:15.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

299
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.879
But also it is ITVs.

300
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:20.940
It's kind of a spoof as well on the opposing network, isn't it?

301
00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:22.980
Turnover and this is what the earths sound like.

302
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:24.539
And isn't it hell?

303
00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:27.960
staying with us and just get nice programming.

304
00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:30.000
So we've...

305
00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:34.679
So essentially, you know, we're anticipating the happiness patrol

306
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:35.039
I think.

307
00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:36.299
Yeah, you know what I mean?

308
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:41.399
Which again, is an earth colony in the future, but reasonably

309
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:45.899
vague about when and where and why, where everything is sort of

310
00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:51.419
hyper real and sort of strange and where a definite, you know

311
00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:57.539
message is more important than kind of a realistic, um, sort of

312
00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:58.799
setting, really.

313
00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:04.200
Um, and it's not just the macra that are lifted from this story

314
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:05.700
and put into gridlock.

315
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.840
It's that whole attitude of maintaining the status quo, even

316
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.299
though you know there's something terrible underneath.

317
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:16.440
And, you know, it's in this story, they're being brainwashed by

318
00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:19.980
radio in that story, they're kept together and have a sense of

319
00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:24.120
community, thanks to the ability to radio one another, but it's no

320
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.220
substitute for actual contact.

321
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.860
And their religion as well.

322
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:29.759
Redlock.

323
00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:32.279
We'll talk about gridlock in 2028.

324
00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:33.059
Yes.

325
00:15:33.059 --> 00:15:35.039
I'm a huge fan of Gridlock.

326
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:35.759
Absolutely.

327
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.759
He's only just now that it strikes me that it's terribly

328
00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:40.559
appropriate that the MacBook should show up.

329
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.879
Yeah, even though like the macra in gridlock aren't the thinking

330
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:47.279
intelligent creatures they are in the macraterra.

331
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:51.480
They're still the commonality of theme, which is very nice.

332
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:56.879
Getting back to Ben and specifically to Michael Craze, I think

333
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:01.919
this is his best performance in the series as he struggles with

334
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:07.320
the conflict between his programming that he receives in the camp

335
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.580
and his sense of loyalty and sense of self.

336
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.179
And when I was reading Anika Will's autobiographies.

337
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:20.159
She talks about Michael Craigs, who, sadly, is no longer with us

338
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:24.120
and how talented an actor he was and how she was always amazed

339
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.580
that he didn't go on to have a huge career.

340
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.039
When I read that, I kind of went.

341
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:32.279
Okay, yeah, he's all, you know, he's all riding war machines

342
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:33.120
because I hadn't seen.

343
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.120
I hadn't seen or heard any of these at that point.

344
00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:40.320
But then when I watched the Macroterra, I went, well, you know

345
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.820
just from the audio, I can tell that this guy is an amazing actor

346
00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:49.080
and it made me feel all the sadder that, one, he's shortly to be

347
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.100
gone from the series.

348
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:56.159
And 2, that he didn't achieve high heights later on in his

349
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:56.519
career.

350
00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:00.120
I think he really should have done because it's a very subtle

351
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:00.720
performance.

352
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:04.019
And as you said, Richard, this story has a lot in common with the

353
00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:05.940
prisoner further down the line.

354
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:11.099
And yeah, I think that Michael Graves could have become a big

355
00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:14.519
leading man in the same way that Patrick McGillan was.

356
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:18.299
I think they do share some of the subtleties of acting in their

357
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:20.819
performance and it's just a shame we didn't get to see more of

358
00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:21.000
it.

359
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:22.319
It's very short though.

360
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:24.660
Yeah, I was going to say, he's a big leading man.

361
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:29.160
It's more a kind of shame or high noon, Gary Cooper kind of, you

362
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:31.019
know, on a box.

363
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:33.000
Don Adams was very short.

364
00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:34.799
Dawn Adams.

365
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:36.420
She was.

366
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.220
Polly's hair.

367
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.079
Yeah.

368
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.640
She surprised everyone going all me at Farrow, Twiggy...

369
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:48.900
Really hot with the with the razor cut gaman style, and it's

370
00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:49.319
gorgeous.

371
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:51.420
She gotten some short shrift.

372
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.799
Yeah, she got a troubled lucers.

373
00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:53.099
Yeah.

374
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:56.160
Yeah, but it really just makes her eyes and mouth look bigger when

375
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:56.700
she screams.

376
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:57.240
It works really well.

377
00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:58.380
She looks lovely.

378
00:17:58.440 --> 00:17:59.819
I mean, she just looks fantastic.

379
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:02.099
And the whole outfit that she wears in, this is great.

380
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.759
But, uh, they obviously travel around in the TARDIS for a while

381
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:08.640
between this and the faceless ones because it's grown out

382
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.519
completely by uh, by the next story.

383
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:15.720
Well, I believe that's where Big Finish put all their, uh, Hanging

384
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:17.160
Chronicles, so that works.

385
00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:21.599
So did she mention like every few episodes in those companion

386
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.460
chronicles that she's decided to grow ahead.

387
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.200
My hair was getting much longer now.

388
00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:30.960
Although she is amazing in those.

389
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:33.539
I met Anika.

390
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:37.559
I was very lucky she came to a convention and she was just lovely

391
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.740
and I told her I was a Latin teacher and she told me she was an

392
00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:43.380
ancient Roman in a previous life and we just hit it off.

393
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.099
It was...

394
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:45.000
With the same haircut.

395
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.200
But she's just gorgeous, absolutely lovely.

396
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:51.059
Ben and Polly.

397
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:55.319
Ah, shortly to be written out and only replaced by one character

398
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.259
because the writers felt, oh, you know, you can't have 3

399
00:18:58.259 --> 00:19:00.839
characters running about, 3 companions running about.

400
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:03.480
But in their story, they use 3 companions to great effect.

401
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:07.559
You know, you've got you've got Ben struggling with his control.

402
00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:12.180
You've got Polly working in the mines, and you've actually got

403
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:15.000
Jamie as the one who tries to escape and is menaced by the

404
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.359
monsters in what would have been a traditional role for the female

405
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.299
character, whereas Polly then gets paired up with the doctor and

406
00:19:21.299 --> 00:19:22.740
helps him do scientific things.

407
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:25.859
Yeah, I think it's less...

408
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.019
Oh, the writers can't do anything with 3 characters.

409
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:32.819
As maybe for some of the stories this season, they chose the wrong

410
00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:35.460
writers because Ian Stewart Black can clearly do something with 3

411
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:35.819
characters.

412
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.440
It's funny, isn't it?

413
00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.380
Because it hasn't really settled down to what we kind of regard as

414
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:42.960
the default mode, which is the doctor travels with a human girl

415
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.319
and what we're going to get for the next 2 years is the doctor

416
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.740
travelling with Jamie and Victoria.

417
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.200
Victoria and Zoe.

418
00:19:53.099 --> 00:19:55.259
No, that's someone else.

419
00:19:56.099 --> 00:20:00.900
The thing that is going to make me sad and will come up, you know

420
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:05.220
will get there in a moment, is that we're not going to have any

421
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:11.099
recognisable human beings or audience identification characters

422
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:14.759
from here on in until the 1970s.

423
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:21.180
It's going to be Victoria in a crazy frock. or Zoe, but we don't

424
00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:25.079
have anyone who can make contemporary earth reference.

425
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.940
Sure. 2 episodes in.

426
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:31.019
They're into miniskirts and hippie beads and or MMP or cat suits

427
00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:34.259
and saying exactly the same stuff that Maureen O'Brien was made to

428
00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:34.500
say.

429
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.019
No, I don't think that's true at all.

430
00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:39.720
I think Victoria is a much blander character than Vicky.

431
00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:41.099
Well, say she's not black.

432
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:42.720
She's not there.

433
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:43.559
We're not there yet.

434
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:46.799
We may we may proceed towards that.

435
00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:56.640
I know this is your one, Nathan, but I'm just gonna say 1st and

436
00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.059
foremost.

437
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:00.059
We have Dr. Pickering and Wanda Bentham for the 1st time.

438
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.480
Yay, in Gatwick Airport.

439
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:07.259
They're Benedict Cumberbun's parents, very sort of-ish.

440
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.279
Well, no, she is.

441
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:10.319
I'm not sure of it, no, not as such.

442
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:14.460
Although, that means that Benedict Cumberbatch is part Lucertian

443
00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:21.240
and part air traffic controller. cabin pressure, that's right.

444
00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:25.200
We'll put a link to that at the end, please, in my favourite sick

445
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.680
radio sitcom of all time that launched Benedict Cumberbatch's

446
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.180
career and it's joyous.

447
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.140
The final episode is aired this Christmas.

448
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.900
And it's Stephanie Cole as well, isn't it?

449
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.279
It is definitely Cole.

450
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.980
It was going to be Wanda playing his mother in one episode, but

451
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:45.359
for whatever reason, the lovely Prunilla scales does it and does

452
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.640
it beautifully, but I can't feel sad, but they didn't keep it in

453
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.140
the family like they did with Sheryl.

454
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.339
Sherlock, yeah, yeah.

455
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.900
So this is kind of funny and it's going to be like the faces ones

456
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:58.140
goes for 6 episodes and we have episodes one and three.

457
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:01.859
And for some reason they were kind of widely available even back

458
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:03.539
in the late 80s.

459
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:04.380
I remember.

460
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.420
I'm sure that I had them on videotape.

461
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:09.720
I'm sure that I had evil and the 2 episodes of the faceless ones.

462
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:13.859
I think they were returned quite early on when the BBC put out a

463
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:16.740
call and said, actually, we don't have these, if you have them, can

464
00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:17.400
you send them back?

465
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:19.559
So I think they may have been returned by a TV station.

466
00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:20.579
Right.

467
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:21.480
I could be wrong on that.

468
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:21.779
Right.

469
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.720
So, um, I mean, I kind of like this one.

470
00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:26.160
It's a little bit strange.

471
00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:28.920
It's a little bit formless and the funny thing is that it doesn't

472
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:29.460
really end.

473
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.420
You know, Ben and Polly disappear and then the doctor and Jamie

474
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:36.119
just sort of wander off because the TARNIS is gone or something.

475
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:39.059
So it's not, it's, you know, the beginning of sort of 7 episodes

476
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:40.619
where they're just hanging around on earth.

477
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:44.759
And it's set the day that Ben and Polly leave at the end of the

478
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:45.359
war machine.

479
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:48.779
So they've been gone no time at all, which I think is sort of

480
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:49.740
rather fabulous.

481
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.880
So it's set in the recent past and it's set in Gatwick Airport and

482
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:57.359
you get this fantastic, uh, like, you know, most of Gatwick

483
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.000
Airports just sort of crummy sets, obviously, but there are some

484
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:05.339
really, really great, huge location shots of, you know, um, planes

485
00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:08.700
landing and things and escalators and these huge concourses and

486
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:09.000
stuff.

487
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:10.859
And that's that's really fun.

488
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.119
Very Mauld.

489
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:15.420
It is. trying to find just how cool and movie it can be.

490
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.119
And we kind of forget too.

491
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.779
And this is something that, you know, that when we do our, you

492
00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:25.980
know, flight through Russia with love podcast, we'll talk about

493
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:28.859
this, but part of the appeal of the Bond films in the 60s is that

494
00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:30.720
people don't really travel abroad.

495
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:32.099
No, it was a big groovy thing.

496
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.740
You did it if you were young and you spent all your savings from

497
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:38.039
working that year on a summer package trip, which meant you turned

498
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:39.299
up at the airport.

499
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:40.740
Chameleons, yeah.

500
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:41.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

501
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:48.059
But so airports are, you know, for us, an airport kind of leads to

502
00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:49.859
that sort of sinking feeling, doesn't it?

503
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:54.000
But, um, because we've often felt going to...

504
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:57.180
You know how they have their own police force and they've always

505
00:23:57.180 --> 00:24:00.839
had their own completely independent force with their own rights

506
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:02.099
and rules and regulations.

507
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:07.019
Yeah, which is why it's so very much like an episode of Thought

508
00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:09.299
about air we could Gapport, the famous Gapport.

509
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.059
I think that's what he was to send to the lavatory.

510
00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:17.880
So But the other funny thing about it too.

511
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:21.119
And it's completely incidental to the original intention of the

512
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.099
story is just how crazy it is.

513
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.519
So there's one point where they have to ring up foreign countries

514
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.819
to find out what's happened to the planes and we're terribly

515
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:33.180
worried about how much that will cost because, you know, like

516
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:38.400
overseas, like making phone calls overseas. these sort of horribly

517
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:39.119
expensive.

518
00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:43.920
Spectacularly twee mobulousness, script riding in the middle of

519
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.839
something that's meant to be glamorous and international.

520
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:46.319
Is it?

521
00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:50.819
The doctor pretends to throw a bomb at someone like...

522
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:56.759
That is this story is about territoriality and fear of...

523
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.880
We hadn't actually had hijackings yet or had we?

524
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:04.440
This is a thing that was more with Paddy Hearst syndrome in the

525
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.160
early 70s. and the Simbionese liberation army and, you know, a

526
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:12.180
group of ash tons of intellectuals and kids that, you know, done a

527
00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:15.180
lot of asset and got a bit cranky about Vietnam and said, let's do

528
00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:15.420
some.

529
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:16.859
I'm not meaning to belittle it.

530
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.579
Because, you know, there's arguments on both sides, but Sinn Fein

531
00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:25.019
had been agitating, but not to the point that is familiar to ask

532
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:25.559
kids now.

533
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:29.220
So people weren't thinking the fact that the security and things

534
00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:34.559
are so lax and all of that, we haven't yet had, um, uh, hijackings

535
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:34.799
and stuff.

536
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.859
We haven't as such, but we did have a knock Powell doing his

537
00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:42.660
rivers of blood speech and we were terrified about immigration and

538
00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:46.799
the whole white Australia policy that we had operating in this

539
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:50.220
time here, which is, you know, if you're English or South Africa

540
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:51.420
you look like us.

541
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:52.319
It's fine.

542
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:55.019
You can come in and you're probably nice, but if you're not, well

543
00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:55.920
it's going to be a lot harder.

544
00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:59.700
Now, Britain's colonies, of course, were devolving, and you had a

545
00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:02.700
lot of immigrants coming from the West Indies and from other parts

546
00:26:02.700 --> 00:26:04.380
of the Monster Empire.

547
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:09.119
This was causing a lot of chat in Parliament, as in the media, who

548
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:11.220
knows if it was causing that much problem on the streets.

549
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.619
It's just like now, isn't it, when we're getting stirred up for

550
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:14.279
whatever reason.

551
00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:16.980
But do you think that this is, so you're saying there's an

552
00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:18.960
immigration kind of metaphor happening here?

553
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:22.380
I suspect so, since a lot of it's about what's going on there.

554
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.180
Well, where is the, where is the Frisson?

555
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.440
Where is the agitation coming?

556
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:28.559
So the chameleon tours have lost there.

557
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:30.000
Was it a galaxy accident?

558
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:31.259
In a galaxy accident?

559
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:33.359
They lost their identities in a galaxy accident.

560
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:34.019
Was it?

561
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:35.039
That wasn't the Refusians?

562
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:35.640
No.

563
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.480
Just wait for Moffat to start picking up on this one.

564
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:40.680
There be a galaxy accident.

565
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:43.740
Anyway, some kind of terrible galaxy accident has happened.

566
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:45.660
I'm sure it was there a few.

567
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.779
You're probably right, but everything's a galaxy.

568
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.380
Yes, a galaxy accident where although they weren't all horribly

569
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:53.039
killed.

570
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:57.420
They did way managed to get up the next day. and realise, oh, we

571
00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:59.700
don't know who we are, what we're doing, but I don't know, let's

572
00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:04.440
go to Earth and make spaceships that look like VC 10s and start up

573
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.019
in an international business and appetize to a niche teenage

574
00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:07.319
market.

575
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:08.279
How about that?

576
00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:11.160
Really, if you're going to have those sort of objections, we need

577
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:12.660
to stop watching this show.

578
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.519
Because, you know, running.

579
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:18.119
I haven't even got to the whole why Polly is an alien pretending

580
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.420
to be someone else pretending not to be Polly, when she doesn't

581
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:24.180
just say, oh, they, well, the doctor's appearing to be a

582
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:26.099
difficulty to our plans.

583
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.359
Why not just squeeze her into that and she can sabotage whatever

584
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:31.259
he's doing?

585
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.660
Nah, I'm just going to sit here and pretend to be something.

586
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.019
It's sitcom land really without the loud jokes.

587
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.440
And yeah, it does rather imply, and it's never really settled.

588
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:44.039
Is there actually a Michelle P out there who looks just like

589
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:44.579
polish.

590
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.279
Ooh, now that's an interesting other story all in itself.

591
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:49.380
And so they're stealing human idea.

592
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:54.539
They're miniaturising humans, stealing their identities, which is

593
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:58.140
the kind of thing that racists fear, you know, they come over and

594
00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:01.140
they're going to take our place, invasion of the body snatchers

595
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:01.440
kind of.

596
00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:05.039
But what does, I mean, you know, does that mean that this is a

597
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:06.720
kind of racist parable then?

598
00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:07.740
Do you know what I mean?

599
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:09.900
Because aren't we right to fear them?

600
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:15.299
I mean, I guess the doctor does resolve it by, you know, helping

601
00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:18.299
them out and coming to an agreement and no one's blown up and no

602
00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:18.599
one.

603
00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:23.339
There's the evil Donald Pickering, who, you know, he's evil, but

604
00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:25.259
not all of them are evil.

605
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:30.119
Well, I think there's definitely an immigration, possibly refugee

606
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:36.119
theme to it because the chameleons are coming here because they

607
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:41.220
are in such dire straits and they're coming here to have a life.

608
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.220
Now, their methods may be questionable.

609
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:46.619
But when they're confronted about earth methods and given an

610
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:48.480
alternative, which isn't going to hurt anyone.

611
00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:49.859
They go, oh yes, definitely, let's do that.

612
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.619
It's quite a typical ending, that ending.

613
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:56.579
Um, with the doctor saying, well, how about you try this

614
00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:58.680
scientific method and they go, oh, you know what?

615
00:28:58.740 --> 00:28:59.579
Yes, that's wonderful.

616
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:01.740
We didn't have the science to do that, but yes, that's definitely

617
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:05.160
what we'd like to do because we hate that we have to do this

618
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:05.400
thing.

619
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:06.779
What do they do?

620
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.720
They have to put you in a cupboard and then put on your identity?

621
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:11.160
Yeah, exactly.

622
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:14.759
This is also coming from, I mean, if you want to look at what, why

623
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.900
this story is here, it's kind of, well, the laziness of this

624
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:19.200
Lloyd.

625
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.599
There was a film that just came out a few years before called so

626
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.960
long at the fair, starring Dirk Bogart, who we already mentioned

627
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.400
as being the glamour boy of 60s, um, Britain, the thinking set

628
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:29.940
night.

629
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.119
He's the kind of the Tony Perkins of Britain at the time has

630
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.180
certainly seen as a simulacer, that guy, you know, all swab and

631
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:36.779
satinine.

632
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.799
Anyway, this film was set in the 1899 World's Fear, but it was

633
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:45.240
about a bloke who was assisting a young girl's hunt for her

634
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:45.960
missing brother.

635
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:48.299
It was based on a true story or her missing brother.

636
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:49.500
Brother.

637
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.900
That's right, because, of course, we have the girl now played by

638
00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:52.500
Sula Black.

639
00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:55.019
No, she's pretty.

640
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:56.519
Isn't she meant to be silver black?

641
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.660
Oh, wasn't she being groomed?

642
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:02.220
in this story to be?

643
00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:03.359
Yeah, what was that?

644
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:05.519
She does look like she's a replacement companion.

645
00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:09.900
Well, they have this weird thing with Michael Craze and Anika

646
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:13.019
Wills's contracts that they're actually contracted up until the

647
00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:16.740
end of Evil of the Daleks, episode two, but they decided let's

648
00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:19.859
actually write them out as early as possible for reasons we

649
00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:21.900
mentioned when we were talking about the macro terror.

650
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.980
There was this conception that 3 companions weren't working.

651
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.779
But it was apparently when they saw how Pauline Collins was

652
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:34.200
working with Fraser Heinz, they offered her the job.

653
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:38.579
Much like they did with Fraser. like they kind of went, oh, we

654
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:39.779
like this up a lot of you a job.

655
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:41.099
They did that with her and she turned it down.

656
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:41.700
Right.

657
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.660
She, I mean, she's terrifically funny in it, and she gets to do

658
00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:50.160
the accent that Dodo would have liked to have been able to do for

659
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.140
longer. liveable.

660
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.160
She's a Liverpool girl.

661
00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:54.299
She was a mate with the Beatles.

662
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:58.079
He was talking about Sam or... or Sealer Black.

663
00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:59.099
Not sylla black.

664
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:03.119
She's she's Northern, so it's possible.

665
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.019
I mean, she, Pauline Collins will be known to new who fans as

666
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:07.859
Queen Victoria.

667
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.799
She does come back and play Queen Victorian.

668
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:12.960
Without a Liverpool accent without the accent.

669
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.599
But not amused.

670
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.920
But she's really sweet with Jamie and like she kisses him.

671
00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:24.720
She kind of fancies him and stuff and makes that clear and that's

672
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.140
that's kind of modern, you know, that skirts the problem of Susan

673
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:29.160
a bit, doesn't it?

674
00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:32.220
It's like young female sexuality and she kisses him.

675
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:35.460
But he takes the opportunity to steal her ticket and all of that

676
00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:39.480
sort of thing and she's bullshy and demanding and stuff and she's

677
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:40.140
really plucky.

678
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.500
She helps the doctor and she does work really well with Jamie.

679
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:46.559
I think she would have been she would have been terrific.

680
00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:50.279
But, like, they're writing Ben and Polly out, but they choose to

681
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.339
write them out in episode one. like they don't even get to go on

682
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:54.240
it.

683
00:31:54.299 --> 00:31:56.160
Yeah, and then Polly reappeared.

684
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.819
Oh, Polly reappears, the pens, or...

685
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:03.539
Yeah, it's very, very strange.

686
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.940
And what I find even stranger about it is.

687
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.619
The story is about the absence of Ben and Polly.

688
00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:15.720
You know, because that's the doctrine that Jamie's driving force

689
00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:18.539
you know, they're constantly mentioned, what about them?

690
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:19.259
What about Polly?

691
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.359
about halfway through the story, they forget for a bit, and then

692
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.339
start mentioning them again in episode five?

693
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:25.859
But yes, it is very strange.

694
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.400
And because their appearance in episode 6 is a pre-filmed insert

695
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:33.000
at the Epic Airport, They didn't have to come into the studio

696
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.619
after that 2nd episode.

697
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.519
So it's, it's kind of odd because the doctor and Jamie spent the

698
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:39.119
next few episodes.

699
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:40.380
Oh, we must rescue Ben and Polly.

700
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:41.519
We must rescue Ben and Polly.

701
00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:43.680
We never see them and they're not even there.

702
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.460
So...

703
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:47.279
Have they learned nothing from Dodo?

704
00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:50.519
But I think they handle it better than Dodo, though.

705
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:53.759
And I remember thinking, because we've had this discussion before

706
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.180
about how poorly served the 60s companions are in their departures

707
00:32:57.180 --> 00:33:01.500
and Dodo, in particular, who also leaves midstory and just never

708
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.339
gets heard of again.

709
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:07.500
But I actually thought that the final scene with Ben and Polly was

710
00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:08.640
actually quite sweet.

711
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:09.599
You know what I mean?

712
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:13.140
Like, that they did say a proper goodbye.

713
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.339
And like it was.

714
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.160
I don't I don't know, you know, I think it's a shame that they

715
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:20.880
decided to abandon the idea of contemporary human companions.

716
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.640
I always think it's a good idea whenever anyone in the new series

717
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.819
is, but they're always girls from London, you know, like what's

718
00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:27.119
going on.

719
00:33:27.180 --> 00:33:32.220
I kind of think, well, you know, just think about the long 80s or

720
00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:36.599
you know, the late 60s when you don't get contemporary humans and

721
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:41.819
that will cure you, I think, of that desire because, um, you know

722
00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:45.660
it's the, it's the contrast between contemporary humans and the

723
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:47.819
crazy adventures that they end up in.

724
00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:51.420
That's the fun, that's the free song of it.

725
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.920
And I've talked about hating historicals, but, you know, again

726
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.099
Santa points out these people belong in history.

727
00:33:59.160 --> 00:33:59.759
Do you know what I mean?

728
00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:02.940
You can't do a historical, if your companions are Jamie and

729
00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:03.539
Victoria.

730
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:04.740
Do you know what I mean?

731
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.420
Because they're from the past.

732
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.000
What do you do?

733
00:34:09.059 --> 00:34:13.619
sort of send them to mediaeval England or czars cave or something

734
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:14.460
you know what I mean?

735
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.860
Like, you know, there's kind of no point.

736
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:19.320
I think this needs more jokes.

737
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:25.139
I mean, I think it's, I think it's pretty entertaining.

738
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.280
Do you know what I mean?

739
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:27.539
Like, I think it does what it needs to do.

740
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:28.619
The recon.

741
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:30.599
So, of course, we only have episodes one and three.

742
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:35.099
So loose cannon reconstructions have made a fabulous CG plane and

743
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:38.639
a fabulous CG space station that the plane goes in.

744
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.519
Which look very close to the existing telly snaps.

745
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:44.880
They did a really good job in terms of design and in terms of

746
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:45.599
their direction.

747
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:48.000
Yeah, of the shots.

748
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:52.559
I was pretty impressed and it was a fun surprise.

749
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:53.880
I wasn't expecting it at all.

750
00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:57.539
So, but, you know, like it moves along and stuff and it's got some

751
00:34:57.539 --> 00:35:00.059
fun bits and it's got Wanda and Donald Pickering.

752
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.820
And it still manages to be different from time flight.

753
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:10.079
Yeah, how can you build a convincing air traffic control room in

754
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.199
the studio in 196667.

755
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:18.719
And then have air traffic control at Heathrow, a bigger airport as

756
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.960
one little computer terminal in a cupboard in 1982.

757
00:35:22.139 --> 00:35:23.340
I do not understand.

758
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.579
It's really not that convincing United States.

759
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:29.579
Still manages to be better almost 20 years.

760
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:30.960
No, no, no.

761
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:31.739
This is quite fun.

762
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.079
It's not the train wreck that time flight is.

763
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:35.699
Spoiler alert.

764
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.679
I am going to have fun when we get to time point, though, because

765
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:38.760
even though it's a train wreck.

766
00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:39.719
I kind like it.

767
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:44.340
It's a good thing and it balances humour and scariness and, you

768
00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:46.920
know, an intriguing spectacle better than a lot of other shows.

769
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:49.380
It's if you want to look at what it is.

770
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.400
It's, you're looking at this show, um, now it's Doctor Who.

771
00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:54.659
We haven't quite got to the point yet.

772
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.559
Later on, as we do, is what's the new gimmick monster this week?

773
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:02.099
It's what's the new gimmick situation scenario.

774
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.519
We've been to the moon because that's what everyone's doing.

775
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.579
Apollo had just learned, 1st Apollo had just launched.

776
00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:11.940
We're now in an airport because that's what groovy things are

777
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:12.179
doing.

778
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:14.340
So where worthy are we going to next week?

779
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.760
He's got a ticket to ride.

780
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:21.659
He's got a ticket to ride.

781
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:26.579
He's got to take it to ride. but he don't care.

782
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.760
That's pretty groovy, really.

783
00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:32.280
I think it was indistinguishable from the original, actually.

784
00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:35.280
Well, it's all we're allowed to use now because, as you know, from

785
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:40.019
the audio versions of this, paperback writer was broadcast as part

786
00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:43.500
of their 1st episode of the interminably groovy and a bit

787
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:48.239
spectacular evil of the Daleks, as was the seekers, nobody's known

788
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.659
the trouble I've seen. and that is still on their BBC audio that

789
00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:54.179
said they'll be missing paperback writer, but we've got the next

790
00:36:54.179 --> 00:36:54.780
best things.

791
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:56.579
Thank you very much, Brendan, for that.

792
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:58.980
There's so much in this that's so much fun.

793
00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:02.579
Nathan, you were saying, the 1st episode is pretty much radically

794
00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:05.579
different from anything else this season or anything else in this

795
00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:05.880
story.

796
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.300
Yeah, so the TARDIS has gone missing.

797
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:12.599
And I think that that's announced at the end of the faces one

798
00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:16.619
someone you know, you know what, though, don't you?

799
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:18.480
It was grabbed by the leather men.

800
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:20.760
That's the removal company.

801
00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:24.239
I mean, it's not there's a hell of a lot of this Joe Wharton

802
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:25.440
referencing going on in this.

803
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:29.699
We didn't mention that Mr. Orton, in his diaries, singled out

804
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:33.780
Fraser Hines as being someone he'd really liked to have cast in

805
00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:36.360
his notorious entertaining Mr. Sloan.

806
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.579
It's being a lovely little boy.

807
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:39.119
Yeah.

808
00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:40.619
There's a lot of that going on.

809
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.260
That's when he was jumping up and down in his one piece rubber

810
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:44.639
onesie wetsuit thingy.

811
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:46.139
We don't get much of that in this story.

812
00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:49.139
We get a lot of other carry-on dialogue.

813
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:53.340
If you listen to it as an audio as I do, it's very carry on.

814
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.460
I mean, the funny thing about it, and again, it's another attempt

815
00:37:56.460 --> 00:38:00.300
to be really modern and as you were saying, really modern up to

816
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:00.719
the minute.

817
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:01.860
And so it's a coffee shop.

818
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:03.840
It's like a cool coffee shop with a French name.

819
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:09.059
And in fact, the funny thing about it is that trickleur, yeah.

820
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:09.960
Yes, that's it.

821
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.500
Nothing at all really happens for the 1st episode.

822
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.000
It's a lot of marking time.

823
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:15.840
It is.

824
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:17.340
Richard Lester or the NAC.

825
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:18.900
It's one of those Beatles Chase movies.

826
00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:22.079
We're waiting for TARDES, place over there.

827
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:23.519
A bit of that as well.

828
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.659
There's some great lines.

829
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:28.139
And finally, then we end up doing Budum and Crash.

830
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:33.119
Comic-Con, 2011, where you've got Professor Waterfield dressed as

831
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:34.019
a Matt Smith fan.

832
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.780
Exactly the same costume. really is.

833
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:41.940
And the whole show then starts to do probably the biggest thing

834
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:45.360
you know, as we've said before, this whole season is not so much

835
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.880
about the monsters, I think it's more interesting because it says

836
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:52.500
what can what else can Doctor Who be as a TV show in other TV

837
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.679
shows, carrying on straight from that 1st episode when we look

838
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.920
into the TARDIS monitor and see the whole world as a TV set.

839
00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:01.739
This one is doing what's the biggest hit right now on TV.

840
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:06.300
It's the foresight saga, Donald Wilson's production.

841
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:06.840
Yeah, exactly.

842
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:09.480
The guy who's almost started Doctor Who kind of almost started

843
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:10.260
Doctor Who.

844
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.539
From the John Galsworthy novels.

845
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:14.760
It was the hugest, hugest thing.

846
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:18.480
It ran for 6 months, and it was still being repeated.

847
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:22.380
I saw it as a little boy in the early 1970s on Australian TV bits

848
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:22.679
of it.

849
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:25.019
It was it went on for more than 10 years.

850
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:28.139
It was just, I guess, before upstairs downstairs, one of those

851
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:29.699
programs.

852
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.800
Proto Downton Abbey.

853
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:32.820
Yeah, exactly.

854
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:33.360
Thank you.

855
00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:36.659
But about the politics of the upstairs and the downstairs.

856
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:41.219
And the 1st one to talk about real class cataclysm, class clashes

857
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:46.079
but without all of the stern drum, melodrama and soapiness of some

858
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:48.780
of the later ones, it took itself reasonably seriously.

859
00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:52.500
But yeah, it was surprisingly for everyone concerned, phenomenally

860
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:53.039
successful.

861
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:56.940
And I think we'll start to see where the character of the young

862
00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:00.360
girl, who, in her 1st scenes is kind of fabulous, isn't she?

863
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:01.139
Molly?

864
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:03.119
Ah, how interesting.

865
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:07.260
Yes, for about 5 or 6 episodes, 4 or 5 episodes of this, we get a

866
00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:11.400
plucky young girl again who has lots of great interaction with the

867
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:17.460
young male lead who really has a winning and vibrant affiliation

868
00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:20.219
with the with the lead casting, who you think is just going to fit

869
00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:21.000
in so beautifully.

870
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:23.579
And then, of course, she disappears completely, and it's the other

871
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:25.559
one who's a bit whiny, but looks good in a frog.

872
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.320
Big eyes, pretty big eyes.

873
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:30.059
And she is very, she is very beautiful.

874
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:31.739
Of course, we're talking about Debbie Watling.

875
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.340
And when we mentioned Peter Jeffrey before, as being some coup

876
00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:36.900
casting for this season.

877
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.139
Debbie Watling is apparently the biggest star doctor who had ever

878
00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:41.099
had up to this point.

879
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:42.539
She was a child actor?

880
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:43.619
Very much so.

881
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.679
She played Alice in Wonderland.

882
00:40:46.739 --> 00:40:52.019
And that was so Keystone, Big BBC Pro. BBC thing, but she was

883
00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:52.559
not.

884
00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:55.980
Yeah, she was wildly known as a child actor and really, very

885
00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:56.219
good.

886
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:58.320
I think she's amazing in that scene.

887
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:02.460
This is David Whittaker doing, do not feed the flying.

888
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:04.320
So, do not make up.

889
00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:09.420
Yeah, you know, she's clearly scared, but she's not petrified at

890
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.380
the point of being meek.

891
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.860
You know, she's quite bullshy with the Dalek, but still being

892
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:17.579
realistically scared as a young Victorian lady would be.

893
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:21.179
You know, it's a bit silly that, oh, we've got this new character

894
00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:22.320
from the Victorian era.

895
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:23.039
What shall we call her?

896
00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:23.760
Victoria.

897
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:27.659
They all went home early, you see, after they came up with that.

898
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.860
But, you know, if the young if the young princess of the time was

899
00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:34.679
called Victoria, and then you had a daughter, it's quite

900
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:36.900
understandable that you might call her Victoria.

901
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.960
You know, there's probably going to be a lot of Kate's and

902
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:43.320
George's being born in the next few years because the Princess

903
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.099
Kate and the young Prince George. with just as much.

904
00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:51.539
Just as much narrative truth and reason for about it as well.

905
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:56.340
Oh, yeah, look, this is carry on up. up the downstairs upstairs

906
00:41:56.340 --> 00:41:56.880
isn't it, really?

907
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.920
And then there is more to it than that, though, isn't there?

908
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:05.280
Because there's Maxtable and he's a really sort of sinister.

909
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:06.239
Oh he's gorgeous.

910
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:11.280
Yeah, and he outshines the later on in the story when you get to

911
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:15.599
the big bad boys in the team suits, he manages to actually

912
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.019
outshine both Paddy and the Daleks in the series, he's in with

913
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:19.199
them.

914
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:23.400
Because, yeah, it's like, it's one thing to have a dalek that's

915
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:23.579
evil.

916
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:24.480
You just go, yeah, okay.

917
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:28.139
But he is just utterly selfish and evil.

918
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:29.400
Like, he wants his gold.

919
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.079
He wants his alchemic secret.

920
00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:32.940
And if you get in the way.

921
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:34.559
Forget you.

922
00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.340
He's very much contrasted with Waterfield.

923
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:42.420
I was thinking, waddling, I was thinking, Travers, you know

924
00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:43.739
thinking.

925
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:45.780
So in this?

926
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:51.659
Straight out of the Poachers season 7 shed or Dickens book, yes.

927
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:53.820
Or Joe Alton play, actually.

928
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:58.320
So he's he's really worried about Kennedy dying and then someone

929
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:01.199
else dies and he remembers, do you know what I mean?

930
00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:02.940
And his hand ringing about it.

931
00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:07.199
And that's contrasted with Maxstable, and it gives us the chance

932
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:11.579
to see how manipulative Maxstable is and how insincere.

933
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:16.260
And so, you know, um, Waterfield and Maxville, Waterfield thinks

934
00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:21.059
they're accomplices, but Max Stables playing Waterfield the entire

935
00:43:21.059 --> 00:43:21.480
time.

936
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:28.019
And what they've done is they've used electrified mirrors that

937
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:31.739
have attracted Daleks into the past or something in this sort of

938
00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:33.840
crazy demented way.

939
00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:38.039
The alchemic way that David Whitaker writes static electricity.

940
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.199
Yes, yeah. everything he does. gorgeous.

941
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:41.460
It was static electricity.

942
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:46.440
And so it is, it's this mad steampunk Victorian thing.

943
00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:47.159
Thank you.

944
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:50.639
Where, you know, you've got all of these sort of strange machines

945
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:53.400
and then you've got the Daleks gliding through looking for all the

946
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:54.420
world as if they belong.

947
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:55.260
They look terrific.

948
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.280
But they're not given very much to do, and it is, I actually think

949
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:03.539
you know, power of the Daleks makes us wait for the Daleks to be

950
00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:04.199
threatening.

951
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:08.159
Here, we are here.

952
00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:11.159
I think the weight is a bit less successful and it just feels a

953
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:15.719
bit longer and a bit more padded than power.

954
00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:21.179
And so, uh, even though you've actually got episode 2 of evil of

955
00:44:21.179 --> 00:44:22.019
the Daleks to watch.

956
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:26.039
I actually do think it does start to wear out its welcome a little

957
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:28.860
bit until we're off to Scaro.

958
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.400
There is a lot of that chasing about corridors again, although we

959
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.119
can't see it.

960
00:44:33.179 --> 00:44:37.619
There's a whole lot of visual impact in the description.

961
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:42.239
Again, a lot of this feels like it's doing, um, contemporary plays

962
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:45.599
and again, Joe Orton at the time, the image of Jamie and the

963
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:51.059
Turkish camel, rottering about the corridors in, in such a way as

964
00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:54.960
if it depicted by Tom of Finland in the graphic covers for a

965
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:57.539
Commonwealth Games brochure for nighting.

966
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.139
They do sound like they're doing all the trials and tribulations

967
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:01.860
that you do.

968
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.860
It's a knockout or something or what's that?

969
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.380
I mean, I didn't have that then.

970
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:10.559
They had gamesmanship amongst the and that's chaps with, you know

971
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:11.400
chasing hankies.

972
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:15.179
It's very strange and I don't understand why camels mute.

973
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:16.500
Why has Campbell got to be mute?

974
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.239
And why is he's Turkish?

975
00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:20.639
Do they cast a big black guy to be mused?

976
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:24.719
And when Maxwell says, oh, you know, he can't talk because his

977
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:29.400
mind is undeveloped, but he can read, but he can read, he can

978
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:29.760
read.

979
00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:33.179
He can perform complex physical tasks which involve things like

980
00:45:33.179 --> 00:45:37.019
deciding whether a beam can take his weight.

981
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:39.300
You know, he can collude with others.

982
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:41.940
I don't know why they do that.

983
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:42.900
That's just annoying.

984
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:43.980
It's off footing.

985
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:46.619
And of course he has to be killed at the end, which just annoys me

986
00:45:46.619 --> 00:45:46.920
as well.

987
00:45:46.980 --> 00:45:50.880
I mean, maybe they're trying to sort of say, oh, this is what the

988
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.960
Victorian era was like, and this is how people from other

989
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:58.079
countries were treated. and, you know, yeah, but there's nothing

990
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:01.079
they never do anything to reverse that.

991
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:05.460
You know, it could it could have been quite fun if after Kimmel's

992
00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:08.579
adventure with Jamie, which I think goes on for far too long, you

993
00:46:08.579 --> 00:46:12.360
know, it stretches over episodes three, four, and a little bit

994
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:13.139
into 5 as well.

995
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:15.179
Yeah.

996
00:46:15.179 --> 00:46:15.539
Yeah.

997
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.960
I think it would have been great if Kimmel had spoken to Jovi.

998
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:21.780
And if people said to him afterwards, well, hold on, why have you

999
00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:24.539
never spoken to us, he could have said, well, he treats me like a

1000
00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:24.780
person.

1001
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.900
You don't treat me like anything, so why would I talk to you?

1002
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:30.840
That would have been a wonderful inversion and would have added a

1003
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:33.480
lot of meaning to Camel and Jamie's relationship.

1004
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:37.739
In fact, the only thing that nearly saves Camel and it doesn't

1005
00:46:37.739 --> 00:46:41.940
really go anywhere near far enough is that Victoria trusts him and

1006
00:46:41.940 --> 00:46:43.500
likes him and...

1007
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:44.400
She's very fond of him.

1008
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:49.199
And that kind of sells him as a human being a bit, but it is lazy

1009
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:54.059
and a bit shoddy, I think, and a bit of a shame in an otherwise

1010
00:46:54.059 --> 00:46:56.760
pretty a pretty good story.

1011
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:00.900
This, of course, is one of the ones where only one episode exists

1012
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:03.840
and of course, we're reaching the end of series four, thank God

1013
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:07.320
where we don't have a single intact story.

1014
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:11.400
Yeah, most we've got is half a story. half of 2 stories, I should

1015
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:11.579
say.

1016
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:12.900
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1017
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.000
It's a bit of a slog.

1018
00:47:15.059 --> 00:47:17.219
But the loose cannon reconstruction.

1019
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:21.119
So really fun. and Richard, you prefer listening to them.

1020
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:22.139
I like listening to them, yeah.

1021
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:24.179
But the loose cannon people.

1022
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:28.739
Actually went back to the location, the hotel in which this was

1023
00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:29.400
shot.

1024
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:32.159
I did a day's filming and they had a Dalek.

1025
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:36.420
They had someone in a Victoria wig and in her frock who could just

1026
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.000
sort of see walking along long corridors and stuff like that.

1027
00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:43.019
And then they do all this CG, they do CG, Jamie, and Campbell

1028
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:45.659
climbing up the balcony to get to Victoria.

1029
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.119
And like some of it's a bit cheesy.

1030
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.219
And there's stacks of CG Daleks everywhere.

1031
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.840
It's really, really fun.

1032
00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:56.340
And they go out of their way to try and not introduce anything new

1033
00:47:56.340 --> 00:47:59.579
because they're, you know, they're a bit OCD and that's how they

1034
00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:00.179
want to do it.

1035
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:00.900
You know what I mean?

1036
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.519
I think they prefer the term purist.

1037
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:03.780
Purists.

1038
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:04.920
That's a much better word.

1039
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:07.019
And they do a terrific job.

1040
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:10.320
Like there's so much work has gone into it and they really, really

1041
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.519
do make it, they do make it watchable, which is kind of fun.

1042
00:48:14.579 --> 00:48:17.460
They do make it a lot of fun, don't they?

1043
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:21.539
And it's a great lead up to the big bang end of the season where

1044
00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:25.739
we once again end up on Planet Scaro, Musical Include.

1045
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:30.239
And those, the final 2 episodes on Scarrow, well, 2.5 episodes on

1046
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.639
Scarrow, they just really, really pick it up.

1047
00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:33.960
It's quite amazing.

1048
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:38.579
It's a bit like the original Daleks, which is a game of 2 halves

1049
00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:40.260
and the 1st half is vastly superior.

1050
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:44.099
But in this one, it's the 2nd half that's vastly superior, and we

1051
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:45.179
get the payoff.

1052
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.139
We get to pay off to the last 5 episodes, but we also get.

1053
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:54.360
We also get the emperor, darling.

1054
00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:58.500
I was going to say we get the payoff to 5 years worth of Dalek

1055
00:48:58.500 --> 00:49:02.219
lore because of course this is the end of the Daleks in Doctor Who

1056
00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:04.320
for the pussyeable.

1057
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:07.559
They thought for truly for the end, and Paddy certainly behaves

1058
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:07.920
that way.

1059
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:09.300
This is where we get them.

1060
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:10.920
Thank you again, David Whittaker.

1061
00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:16.440
His inclusion of his writing for the Century 21 comic strip, the

1062
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.139
Emperor Dalek, from that into the narrative of this.

1063
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.960
So we're really getting a lovely conclusion of the disparate

1064
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:24.960
Doctor Universes coming to the one story at the end.

1065
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:29.099
And what we've neglected is bringing them down to 2 allegorical

1066
00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:29.579
forces.

1067
00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:33.179
And power of the Daleks kind of does this where the Daleks

1068
00:49:33.179 --> 00:49:39.900
represent or come out of the human evil that infest the colony

1069
00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:40.320
politically.

1070
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:43.380
You know, colony and power of the Daleks, everyone's backbiting

1071
00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:45.960
and stuff like that, and that allows the Daleks to emerge.

1072
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:51.000
Here we have, here we have humanity and Dalek kind, rayified as

1073
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.960
the human factor and the Dalek factor, and it allows us to do

1074
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.199
really new things with the Daleks, which include, you know, the

1075
00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:02.159
fabulous Daleks playing, saying, dizzy doctor, that incredible

1076
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:05.820
cliffhanger is that episode four.

1077
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:07.079
With the trains.

1078
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:10.679
Yes, where the Daleks are playing trains and the doctors, you know

1079
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:11.820
riding on the diamonds.

1080
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:12.659
James horrified.

1081
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:17.820
And the Daleks call the doctor friend and all of that sort of

1082
00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:18.059
thing.

1083
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:22.679
So the Daleks, thanks to Jamie and all of that padding in the

1084
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:25.980
middle episodes, there are now 2 factions of Daleks.

1085
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:29.039
There's the human Daleks, the human factor Daleks, and just the

1086
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:30.360
Dalek factor Daleks.

1087
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:33.659
Which are the ones with the pointy heads that look like the Lewis

1088
00:50:33.659 --> 00:50:37.679
Marks pullback friction drive action dialects.

1089
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:39.119
That was Planet of the Dale.

1090
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:40.320
I do it in this one as well.

1091
00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:43.019
They use Lewis Mark.

1092
00:50:43.019 --> 00:50:43.980
Did you?

1093
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:48.420
The doctor gets to see the biggest, baddest badass Dalek in the

1094
00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:49.980
entire history of Dalekness.

1095
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.760
Do you know what the emperor dalek was called on the set by pretty

1096
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:55.260
much most of the production crew?

1097
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:55.800
Gordon.

1098
00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:58.619
I wish, the queen, darling, the queen died.

1099
00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:02.940
To continue my thing. ostensibly maybe because of the honeycomb

1100
00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:03.480
sets.

1101
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:09.840
So this is meant to be the same city that Barbara Ian and Susan

1102
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:15.480
visited all those years ago and Roberta Toby a year after that.

1103
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:20.820
Because you said, Richard, the doctor knows his way out of it.

1104
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:22.860
But the design is so different, isn't it?

1105
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:27.539
And the design is fantastic and it is this thing where a lot of

1106
00:51:27.539 --> 00:51:30.960
trout and sets, you know, they paint the walls black and then they

1107
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.840
use sort of grids and things and so there's sort of negative space

1108
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:34.619
behind the walls.

1109
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:38.639
Like the top of the pops already steady go set for a dusty

1110
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:39.539
Springfield song.

1111
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:43.559
It was really very sensitive to pop iconography on TV.

1112
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:44.579
And it looks great.

1113
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:45.539
It really does.

1114
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:46.260
That's fantastic.

1115
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.199
And so the emperor dialect just sort of emerges out of that giant

1116
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:49.679
sand.

1117
00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:51.960
You want him to start cracking into a song, don't you?

1118
00:51:52.019 --> 00:51:55.380
It'd actually be probably more like a Bernard Crib than this right

1119
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:58.500
set, Fred, or something like that because he's he's getting a bit

1120
00:51:58.500 --> 00:51:58.619
old.

1121
00:51:58.679 --> 00:51:59.699
Do you notice he's a bit deaf?

1122
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:02.820
He actually asks that at one point the doctor, he asks the doctor

1123
00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:03.480
to speak up.

1124
00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:07.980
And he does have a one for a Dalek.

1125
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:11.340
He has a wonderfully pompous voice, you know, he doesn't have that

1126
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:13.860
pissed out.

1127
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:16.320
Like this.

1128
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.119
Very plumbing.

1129
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:21.719
Much more like Nick Briggs does it later on, but he's much more

1130
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:23.099
aesthetic and much more human.

1131
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:24.539
And he introduces himself.

1132
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:29.099
He says, you know, there's no direct speech and so you are the

1133
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:29.460
doctor.

1134
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:34.139
Do any of our little fanboy frontal lobes consider that it might

1135
00:52:34.139 --> 00:52:37.860
be a descendant or clone of a Davros type of...

1136
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:39.119
No, no, it's Yavelling.

1137
00:52:39.179 --> 00:52:42.780
Oh, of course, it was because it's David Wisaker, which could be

1138
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:43.139
coming.

1139
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:45.420
Share a bit of this because I didn't do that last time we were

1140
00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:46.320
talking about...

1141
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.300
I didn't know that much about it. was just trying to be funny.

1142
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:50.880
No, it is the comics you are failing is the original person who

1143
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:54.480
created the Daleks in the sort of comic... tall and blue with

1144
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:55.920
Billy Hartnell wig.

1145
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:57.239
What, silver wig?

1146
00:52:57.300 --> 00:53:01.679
And once again, the altered visitors who have made videos of all

1147
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:07.380
the Dalek Chronicles have also made made a video featuring Yav

1148
00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:10.320
Delling's creation of the Daleks..

1149
00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:11.340
That's what we want to see.

1150
00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:14.340
Something I find very interesting about this one.

1151
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:16.800
Because that's I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of this

1152
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:17.099
story.

1153
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:19.260
I think it's really let down by the padding in the middle.

1154
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:23.400
Could have been a great four, possibly potter, but the ideas it

1155
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:25.500
introduces are wonderful.

1156
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:28.199
And especially when Jamie says to the doctor, you know, people

1157
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.019
have died and you're treating this like a game when this is over

1158
00:53:31.019 --> 00:53:31.739
we're through.

1159
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.820
And, of course, Jamie comes to realise that the doctor has tricked

1160
00:53:35.820 --> 00:53:37.559
the Daleks and it's not like that at all.

1161
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:42.360
But in a way, what Jamie has said is coming true because the

1162
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:47.820
doctor doesn't seem to care that the 3 humanised Daleks he's

1163
00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:51.239
created are beings as well.

1164
00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:54.300
He just sends them off to fight the guards.

1165
00:53:54.420 --> 00:54:00.179
So it's kind of weird because as you say, Nathan, it's the 1st

1166
00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:05.159
time that we don't have an identification character from the

1167
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:08.400
modern day, I mean, even with Vicki, as you said before, Richard

1168
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.659
Vicki was very much a modern girl, we very briefly had a period

1169
00:54:12.659 --> 00:54:17.099
between Vicki and Dodo where we didn't have that sort of present

1170
00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:18.000
day character.

1171
00:54:18.059 --> 00:54:21.300
But this is the 1st time where it's ongoing that way.

1172
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:25.019
So, The season ends just like it began.

1173
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:28.320
It began with a with a reboot of the doctor's character, and this

1174
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:34.739
is kind of another reiteration of you can't really trust him.

1175
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:38.159
You know, he does, he does fight for the good of all, but that

1176
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:39.900
that, that means some sacrifices.

1177
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.840
Do you know, it's never occurred to me to wonder that.

1178
00:54:42.900 --> 00:54:45.179
I don't think the narrative, do you know what I mean?

1179
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:47.760
Do they foreground the idea that the doctor's sacrificing those

1180
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:48.420
dialects?

1181
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:50.400
No one else seems to care.

1182
00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:54.480
That's what I find it to do because the Daleks are so humanised

1183
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:55.679
and so childlike.

1184
00:54:56.039 --> 00:55:00.000
And I think that deliberate decision had to come from somewhere.

1185
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.159
Let me write it off pretty quickly, don't we?

1186
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:05.039
Yeah, no, it never occurred to me, but it is a thing, I think.

1187
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.440
And he does even encounter them, doesn't he?

1188
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:11.219
Does he encounter them on Scaro and talk to them and they have a

1189
00:55:11.219 --> 00:55:11.519
little chat.

1190
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:14.880
And he kind of says to them, you know what you need to do.

1191
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:18.780
And it's hard to tell them, there may be a bit of remorse in his

1192
00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:19.079
voice.

1193
00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:21.840
It's hard to tell without the visuals, but, you know, he still

1194
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.619
sends them in 3 daleks against the emperor and all its guards in a

1195
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:27.300
bloody firefight.

1196
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:31.139
Do they do they infect people or convince them or something or do

1197
00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:35.219
they hand out, I don't know, sandwiches laced with human factor or

1198
00:55:35.219 --> 00:55:36.599
something, like, is it just them?

1199
00:55:36.659 --> 00:55:39.360
Hello, my name is Elder Alpha, and I would like to talk to you

1200
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:40.199
about this amazing book.

1201
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:41.340
Yeah, yes.

1202
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:42.960
Do they do that?

1203
00:55:43.019 --> 00:55:47.400
I think that's more of a Dalek is certainly fearful that that will

1204
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.639
happen. that they will introduce the notion of questioning.

1205
00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:54.539
And I think at one point Daleks do go along to dispatch them and

1206
00:55:54.539 --> 00:55:58.559
the human Daleks start questioning them and the other Daleks are

1207
00:55:58.559 --> 00:55:59.699
like, I don't know what to do with this.

1208
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:01.320
So I'll return to base for orders.

1209
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:06.360
So it does, we see a small breakdown which leads to the line of

1210
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:07.320
the civil war later on.

1211
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:12.659
I actually quite like that ambiguity and for me, it saves the

1212
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:13.019
story.

1213
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:17.219
It's not just about the doctor directly destroying the Daleks

1214
00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:20.699
which is something that Hartnell really didn't do.

1215
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.699
He would only attack the Daleks as a last resort.

1216
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:26.579
You know, most of the time he was just trying to get away with, get

1217
00:56:26.579 --> 00:56:29.460
away from them, but this new doctor's just like, no, I've had

1218
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:31.619
enough of wiping you out.

1219
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.760
I mean, the 2 Dalek stories this season, reimagine the Daleks

1220
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.460
rather than just being an occasional threat.

1221
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:40.619
This is the point at which they actually become iconic

1222
00:56:40.619 --> 00:56:42.300
representations of evil.

1223
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:46.139
And so it's not just their allegorical role in the power of the

1224
00:56:46.139 --> 00:56:48.840
dialects, but also the fact that the doctor needs to face them in

1225
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:51.420
order to become the doctor, you know, the new doctor.

1226
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:55.980
And then here, you know, is this sort of giant empire and things

1227
00:56:55.980 --> 00:56:58.980
and we bring it around full circle by going back to the original

1228
00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:00.059
Dalek city.

1229
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:02.940
And so they have become mythical.

1230
00:57:02.940 --> 00:57:07.380
And, you know, that's the progression, you know, he, the doctor

1231
00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:10.739
meets them in a tiny city, then he meets them in earth, then he

1232
00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:13.860
gets chased through space, then they try and invade the galaxy, and

1233
00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:16.920
then they just become these giant mythic forces, even though their

1234
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:21.059
plans themselves aren't anywhere near as as big a deal.

1235
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.159
They are a big deal in this.

1236
00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:25.679
And I wonder with something of a cinematic quality.

1237
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:27.659
After the Dalek movies.

1238
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:29.159
I think that's achieved by the sound.

1239
00:57:29.219 --> 00:57:32.159
Did either of you notice how good the score is for this?

1240
00:57:32.219 --> 00:57:37.380
It's Dudley Simpson, but it's as good as the last time we had.

1241
00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:41.280
I really like to score to macro, even though it's crazy.

1242
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.980
But this is...

1243
00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:48.059
This is, um, this does really quite beautiful things with with the

1244
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:48.420
score.

1245
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:54.420
He uses hobo, flute, timpani, uh, marimba, and vibrophone, but

1246
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:57.900
then he froze in over that, a processed piano, and he does that

1247
00:57:57.900 --> 00:58:00.059
before George Martin and the Beatles did it.

1248
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:03.119
I wonder if John and George Martin were watching this one and

1249
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:04.860
going, ooh, I like the sound of that one.

1250
00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:05.400
He was that one.

1251
00:58:05.940 --> 00:58:07.320
Wow.

1252
00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:08.340
I don't know.

1253
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:09.420
That's actually Simpson.

1254
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:15.300
But it's the score is gorgeous and it really works to compel the

1255
00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:16.320
story along.

1256
00:58:16.380 --> 00:58:19.920
There are moments, yeah, when it's dull and it's sort of, you kind

1257
00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:22.019
of feel that it's plodding along a little bit too slowly.

1258
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:25.980
But then it'll just throw us into some really different

1259
00:58:25.980 --> 00:58:29.820
environments that are completely unexpected and support that and

1260
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:30.420
go along with it.

1261
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.400
That's the beauty of Whittaker's writing.

1262
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:34.019
He never lets you down in the moment.

1263
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.199
There's always something that'll grab you and that's surprising

1264
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:37.980
and keep you involved.

1265
00:58:38.099 --> 00:58:40.019
In the end with this story.

1266
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:42.900
You know, power of daleks, as you said, Nathan, the doctor had to

1267
00:58:42.900 --> 00:58:45.300
face the Daleks in order to become the doctor.

1268
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:48.360
Now Doctor Who's getting rid of the Daleks because we have this

1269
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:50.460
new doctor, the show survived and we don't need them anymore.

1270
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:52.980
And we're losing the rights to them.

1271
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:56.460
They are kind of alive.

1272
00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:57.420
Try and be poetic.

1273
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:03.000
There is despite what John Peel says, there is a Dalek still

1274
00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:03.840
moving at the end.

1275
00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:07.440
It's a little bit like the shot of the little cybermat heading

1276
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:08.820
away at the end of 2 of the side.

1277
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:10.860
Oh, but we're getting ahead of ourselves.

1278
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:16.019
So starting with Jenny Laird award, for me, I've already mentioned

1279
00:59:16.019 --> 00:59:18.599
it, but Jenny Laird award has to go for Nigel Robinson.

1280
00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:21.179
I don't know whether he came up with slapping Polly into

1281
00:59:21.179 --> 00:59:24.420
submission, but he certainly didn't try to sugarcoat it through

1282
00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:25.619
his novelisation either.

1283
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:28.380
So that's my choice for the Jenny Laird award for puzzling

1284
00:59:28.380 --> 00:59:28.920
creative choice.

1285
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:34.019
Oh, my journey Laird Award is equally obvious, I guess it's poor

1286
00:59:34.019 --> 00:59:37.440
old John Peel, not the radio one DJ that we're talking about radio

1287
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:41.460
but the writer. of the evil of the Daleks novelisation.

1288
00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:42.780
Have either of you read it?

1289
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:43.199
No.

1290
00:59:43.260 --> 00:59:48.179
You know how you get all of that padding in the middle third?

1291
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:50.820
This is kind of like a musical set piece in 3 parts, isn't it?

1292
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:55.320
The middle fur is stretched out. episode four. into 2 episodes.

1293
00:59:55.380 --> 00:59:59.519
And John Peel describes every single moment of it.

1294
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:02.880
You know that Wisaker would have said, okay, that was just part of

1295
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:04.500
what was required for TV.

1296
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:06.480
Let's shrink it down. and make something interesting.

1297
01:00:06.539 --> 01:00:09.119
Isn't it sad that Whittaker didn't write the novelisation of

1298
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:09.659
this?

1299
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:12.840
Yeah, so yeah, once again, John P. or Dong gets mine.

1300
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:14.099
It gets my genie.

1301
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:18.239
You know, mine actually goes to the entire production team.

1302
01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:19.920
And I tell you why.

1303
01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:23.699
And normally we think the Jenny Land award, it's, you know, it's

1304
01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:26.760
for a puzzling creative choice, and not necessarily a bad creative

1305
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:27.300
choice.

1306
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:31.440
Okay. just in case the name confused you in some way.

1307
01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:33.000
Puzzled you.

1308
01:00:33.059 --> 01:00:35.219
And so here it is.

1309
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:39.119
Here I think it is the way that the change in cast is dealt with

1310
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:41.880
in series four, the change in the lead.

1311
01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:46.619
And we've just very recently had this happened.

1312
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:50.219
We've seen Matt Smith go and Peter Capaldi take over as a doctor

1313
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:54.599
and Matt Smith's departure was, you know, massively telegraphed

1314
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:56.280
given huge amounts of publicity.

1315
01:00:56.340 --> 01:00:57.780
We had TV shows about it.

1316
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.780
Um, you know, there was, it was all over the news.

1317
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:05.519
He was given a Christmas special, which was all about growing old

1318
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:10.139
and leaving that was thematically all about what his era had been

1319
01:01:10.139 --> 01:01:13.380
about, that was a giant celebration of his era, that right from

1320
01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:17.400
the beginning was set up as Matt Smith's last story.

1321
01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:22.800
And Peter Capaldi's thing was set up as a dinosaur to parallel how

1322
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:24.239
old Peter Capaldi is.

1323
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.059
There's the half-faced man. you know what I mean?

1324
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:29.460
wondering whether he's still the same person after he's replaced

1325
01:01:29.460 --> 01:01:31.079
all of his bits over the years.

1326
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:36.599
You know, it's thematically all about that change and the change

1327
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:38.579
we're reassured all the way through.

1328
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:39.420
Do you know what I mean?

1329
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:44.460
Like everything is, uh, is geared up these days to ensure that we

1330
01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:47.880
don't go away because we don't like the new guy.

1331
01:01:47.940 --> 01:01:52.199
There's an accidental kind of anticipation of Hartnell's departure

1332
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:56.340
by his collapse and disappearance in episode 3 of the 10th planet

1333
01:01:56.340 --> 01:02:00.900
but the 10th planet is in no way a regeneration story and the way

1334
01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:01.920
that we think about it now.

1335
01:02:01.980 --> 01:02:04.079
There's no celebration of the era.

1336
01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:05.400
There's no mention of anyone.

1337
01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:08.159
It's just heat for the last 5 minutes.

1338
01:02:08.340 --> 01:02:10.800
And then there's no attempt.

1339
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:13.860
And I think this is deliberate and I think it's risky and it's

1340
01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:17.039
amazing that it comes off, but there's no attempt to reassure us

1341
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:18.239
that Trouton is...

1342
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:20.039
Is the doctor.

1343
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:24.960
And in fact, there's plenty of things that put us off. early on in

1344
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:28.800
power of the Daleks and it's such a strange choice of recasting in

1345
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:32.519
the 1st place and it's dealt with in such a surprising way to a

1346
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:35.340
modern Doctor Who audience that that's what gets my award.

1347
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:37.199
I think that's pregnant, yeah.

1348
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:41.940
And now we also have our picks or recommendations.

1349
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:46.739
Someone we've spoken about a lot over the course of these episodes

1350
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:48.480
is Anika Wills.

1351
01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:54.360
She, along with Fraser Hines, other 2 surviving members of the

1352
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:57.179
main cast from this point, Deborah Watling, of course, as well, but

1353
01:02:57.179 --> 01:03:00.420
we'll talk more about Deborah Watling in next month's podcasts.

1354
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:04.139
So I would like to recommend Anika Will's autobiographies.

1355
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:06.119
They 1st came out a couple of years ago.

1356
01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:10.500
They're currently out of print, but I believe, um, There is some

1357
01:03:10.500 --> 01:03:13.199
talk about them going back into print with a new publisher.

1358
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:16.920
They are Anika Will's naked and Anika Will's self-portrait.

1359
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:22.079
Uh, naked covers uh, her time on Doctor Who and her early acting

1360
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:22.380
career.

1361
01:03:22.500 --> 01:03:25.679
But there is so much more to her.

1362
01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:30.360
And it's actually the parts that weren't about Doctor Who that I

1363
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:32.219
found the most interesting in reading these.

1364
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:37.139
They are readily available on Amazon for good prices thrown out of

1365
01:03:37.139 --> 01:03:37.619
print book.

1366
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:44.159
But actually, as we release this episode, a new autobiography, a

1367
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.219
picture autobiography with many rare photos from Anika's

1368
01:03:47.219 --> 01:03:50.340
collection, Anika Wills in focus, will have just been released.

1369
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:53.219
It had a limited release 2 years ago, but this is a general

1370
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:56.280
release and will include the link for that on the website as

1371
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:56.460
well.

1372
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:59.340
I think we had better include the link because I just Google

1373
01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:04.199
searched on Anika Wheels naked and that's not something that I

1374
01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:04.920
don't remember.

1375
01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:10.920
Richard, your recommendations very quickly. very swiftly and

1376
01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:16.260
absolutely on the tail and... generous exposition.

1377
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:20.099
I just thought if you want to get a grip on what was happening at

1378
01:04:20.099 --> 01:04:22.199
the moment and we've talked about the Beatles and we've talked

1379
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:23.579
about the look of feel of the era.

1380
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:26.219
I've plumped for the Joe Wharton diaries.

1381
01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:31.019
If only because, very similarly, there is a reference to the very

1382
01:04:31.019 --> 01:04:35.039
young Fraser Hines and how Mr. Orton wanted to cast him as the

1383
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:38.280
juvenile lead in entertaining Mr. Sloan, opposite Patricia

1384
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:38.940
Rutledge.

1385
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:42.420
She is our very own Hyacinth Duques. think I would have been

1386
01:04:42.420 --> 01:04:42.900
fantastic.

1387
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:45.059
So it's a shame they didn't carry on with it.

1388
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:48.719
He's producer, also called Wiles, said to him, you're going to

1389
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:50.639
have a very jolly time of it, aren't you?

1390
01:04:50.699 --> 01:04:54.480
What a shame that didn't happen and he, well, he was murdered at

1391
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:55.199
the end of that year.

1392
01:04:55.260 --> 01:04:56.340
But yeah, he was right.

1393
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.000
He does mention having watched an episode of Underwater Menace

1394
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:00.659
does he?

1395
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:01.199
Yeah, he does.

1396
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:02.579
And the faceless ones.

1397
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:03.000
Oh, really?

1398
01:05:03.059 --> 01:05:03.900
I've mentioned that too.

1399
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:06.239
He says there was on Doctor Who tonight.

1400
01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:06.960
Oh, sorry, Richard.

1401
01:05:07.079 --> 01:05:08.340
Well, I have it right in front of me here.

1402
01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:12.119
Look at the diaries and he says, well, you've got to just trudge

1403
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:15.239
through it because there's a hell of a lot of Kenneth Williams on

1404
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:16.199
every single page.

1405
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:17.219
Why would you not pick it up?

1406
01:05:17.340 --> 01:05:19.860
He says on Saturday I was watching an episode of Doctor Who and

1407
01:05:19.860 --> 01:05:22.260
spotted a little boy in that called Fraser Hines.

1408
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.739
So I rang John Wiles up and he said, my word, you are going to

1409
01:05:25.739 --> 01:05:27.000
enjoy yourself, aren't you?

1410
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:28.019
That's it.

1411
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:30.599
That's all we get on Doctor Who in the actual, everything else has

1412
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:31.320
been inferred.

1413
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:33.960
You can do that with this kind of man.

1414
01:05:34.019 --> 01:05:37.320
It's just a really great taste of the period and there's so much

1415
01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:41.280
you can look at, as we've said, not just TV wise, but writing wise

1416
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:41.699
on.

1417
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:45.539
This is a fantastic year for England and for creative writing

1418
01:05:45.539 --> 01:05:46.260
generally.

1419
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:50.699
And this season, despite all its many, yeah, not so great success

1420
01:05:50.699 --> 01:05:54.840
as manages to give us a taste, a smoggish beyond, if you like, of

1421
01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:56.699
little bits of all of it. really.

1422
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.820
We got a lot of different shows in Doctor Who this year.

1423
01:05:59.820 --> 01:06:01.019
And Patrick is astounding.

1424
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:03.119
I don't know that many people would have been able to pull it

1425
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:03.300
off.

1426
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:04.860
No, that's very true.

1427
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:09.659
In my pick of the week is, and it's kind of, you know, along the

1428
01:06:09.659 --> 01:06:13.800
same lines that I've come up with many times before, but I had

1429
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:16.500
intended to spend this morning planning lessons for the upcoming

1430
01:06:16.500 --> 01:06:20.880
week, uh, but I became alerted to the fact that uh, volume 5 of

1431
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:24.780
Philip Sanders, TARDIS, a Rudatorum, complete with an interview

1432
01:06:24.780 --> 01:06:28.920
with Gareth Roberts, uh, in which he talks about the Graham

1433
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:32.159
Williams ears, uh, that's out on Amazon.

1434
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:35.699
And so I won't be winging it tomorrow.

1435
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:36.599
I know what I'm doing.

1436
01:06:36.659 --> 01:06:40.380
But the rest of the week, goodness knows what's going to happen.

1437
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:41.460
Looking forward to that one.

1438
01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:46.500
So next month, our next episode will be released on November the

1439
01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:47.099
16th.

1440
01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:52.980
And gentlemen, your story allocations for season five, Doctor

1441
01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:53.400
Who?

1442
01:06:53.460 --> 01:06:58.019
Nathan, you will be leading discussion on the recently recovered

1443
01:06:58.019 --> 01:06:58.679
enemy of the world.

1444
01:06:59.579 --> 01:07:02.099
And sadly, still missing theory from the deep.

1445
01:07:02.219 --> 01:07:08.280
Richard, you will be covering the recently animated, Ice

1446
01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:08.639
Warriors.

1447
01:07:08.699 --> 01:07:10.440
Yes, animating a dead corpse.

1448
01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:11.519
Standby for more.

1449
01:07:11.579 --> 01:07:12.480
Oh, it's really good.

1450
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:17.579
And the mostly recently recovered weather theatre.

1451
01:07:17.699 --> 01:07:18.659
Oh no, this is a good one.

1452
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:19.139
Okay.

1453
01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:22.260
And I will be covering Tomb of the Sidemen.

1454
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:25.559
The abominable snowmen and the wheel in space.

1455
01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:28.679
And the reason I get the tomb of the side men is because you 2

1456
01:07:28.679 --> 01:07:33.059
both have a full or almost full story and otherwise I wouldn't

1457
01:07:33.059 --> 01:07:34.679
have done and that's not bad.

1458
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:36.420
Fair enough.

1459
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:41.400
So, um, as Nathan has to rush off, we're just going to say a very

1460
01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:43.079
quick goodbye and thank you for listening.

1461
01:07:43.139 --> 01:07:43.440
Good night.

1462
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:44.760
Good night.

1463
01:07:44.820 --> 01:07:45.780
Goodbye and thank you.

1464
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:54.539
You've been listening to quite your entirety with Nathan Bottomley

1465
01:07:54.539 --> 01:07:55.920
Brendan Jones, and Richard Shan.

1466
01:07:55.980 --> 01:07:59.639
This episode, Airwick Gapport, was recorded on Sunday, 12th of

1467
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:00.000
October.

1468
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:02.699
The next episode will be released on November 16th.

1469
01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:06.179
You can find us online at 52 Entirety.com, 52 entirety on Facebook

1470
01:08:06.179 --> 01:08:08.760
and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1471
01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:11.820
I am a student of human nature, especially Mikey.

1472
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:12.300
Wow.

1473
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:39.060
That helps.