WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 13:59:41

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Hello and welcome to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, working for the good of your colony.

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Remember, report anyone who thinks there is such thing as, oh, I don't know what I was going to say.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm wearing mutant crowd claws and looking a bit perplexed.

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Which can only mean one thing.

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There's no such thing as Richie wearing New York type of crap quals and looking at perplexed.

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The insects.

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Yes.

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As we go into the doesn't exist terror.

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Yes.

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This is fine.

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I'm sure it's not fun.

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No, it's not yours.

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I'm not even asterisk here on my notes.

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I can talk about it.

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We've got new credits.

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Exciting new credits.

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We have exciting new credits with Patrick Trouton's mushing them which don't exist.

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Well, those ones don't, but we can't sort of see what it looks like, and it is the 1st time, and we went a long time in the new series without the doctor's face in the credits, and now we've got sort of looming terrifying capalli eyebrows coming at us from out of a giant clock.

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Yeah, so it is.

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We did briefly have a little bit of Matt Smith's smoky, shadowy face.

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A la the original Sylvester McCoy titles.

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I actually quite like that.

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But I like this.

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Sandup, as usual, mentions that this is a doctor who looks out of the television at you quite a lot.

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He's quite, you know, often portrayed on screens, looking out and stuff.

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And so this is, he's looking out, smiling beneficently at you from the television and it does tell us something about his approach to Doctor Who in that he is now unashamedly the hero of the show.

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Yes.

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We talked last episode about how the show had bedded itself down, how it had found the thing it's going to do for the next 47 years.

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It's going to be bases under siege, spoiler alert.

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And he's the hero of that.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So, and so naturally he gets his face in the opening credits.

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And look at me talking.

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So who's going, is it?

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It's my go.

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Oh, okay.

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Me?

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This is my story.

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And I have to say, I think this one is absolutely the highlight of Patrick Troughton's 1st season.

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I know that's quite controversial in a season that also includes Power of the Dialects and Evil, but I will I will go on and explain.

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Now already we have had in this season the setup of the base underseage idea.

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But already we're subverting that because here we do have a base under siege.

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We got the colony under siege by grotesque insects, the macro, which are actually giant crabs, phrasing.

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But the twist here is the base doesn't know it's under siege.

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In all the other base under siege stories we see, sort of when the doctor arrives, you've got the leader character saying, oh, yes, well, we've got this problem here, and, you know, we're going to a rescue because you're up this new path, but the doctor says, no, I'm not.

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Oh, no, you aren't, right?

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You can help us solve it.

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Whereas this one, The doctor turns up and says, oh, there's something wrong here.

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And everyone says, no, there isn't.

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We're all happy.

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We're all fine.

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So, Already we're subverting that great idea.

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Although, now this is our, this is our 2nd ever earth colony in the future, and the 1st earth colony in the future is power of the dialects, and power of the dialects was an earth colony that didn't realise it was under threats and thought that everything was okay.

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And as the audience, we knew that was all going to sort of turn into a sort of giant bloody massacre at the end and we spent some time waiting for it.

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Here.

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Here it's very different, isn't it?

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And within the space, like the conception of what an Earth colony is going to look like, goes from something that's sort of fairly standard to something that's much more crazy and whimsical, and I think we'll talk about why that is later.

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But so it is different from the base under siege thing, which we just said was, you know, had just been established.

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And we know as viewers, of course, that if there's, uh, if it's a Doctor Who story and someone's blathering on about monsters and things, uh, that, that, uh, we're going to be on the side, that thinks the monsters are real, you know, they're not going to be made up.

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And of course, in that role, you have the brilliant Terence Launch.

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I think I stayed there on holiday work.

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He plays a very similar role in some early Avengers stories.

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He's in some very good on a black man episodes such as the ringer and the man with 2 shadows and in the man with 2 shadows.

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Again, he's playing a brainwash character who has seen something.

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He's seen an enemy plan, but his mind is so broken that he can't say what it is.

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So does he meet off?

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He's Me Doc.

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That's right.

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And you've got Peter Jeffrey as well as the colony's pilot.

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He's a great appearance.

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He's always...

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He was a win cast for them.

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They hadn't had a major name on his level before.

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Was he made City?

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Well, you know, BBC at the time.

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Yeah, sure, in-house, but there was a bit of pre-propulosity for him.

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Yeah, well, very few photographs exist for the story, but those that do exist. tend to put him to the forefront in his very nice tunic and whatnot.

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What we can see of the story, it seems to be very well designed and a bit like in Stuart Black's previous story of the Savages, you know, they've really thought about the designs of this culture where everything is not as it seems.

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And in Stuart Black.

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This is his last script for the series, but in the 3 scripts he writes, there's a very clear sort of attitude from him, which would become quite traditional in 1970s, Doctor Who, of on the surface, everything is fine.

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But if you scratch the surface, you get into something really, really nasty.

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And what's worse, there are people who know how nasty it is and they're doing nothing.

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So savages was very much like that.

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Savage was very much like that, yeah.

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And also the war machines, because you've got these respectable people, a professor and an ex- army man making these robots to take over the world.

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People know what's going on, but they're powerless to act because of the bureaucracy of the world itself.

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He's a very complex scriptwriter in Stuart Blake.

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He is not, I would say, as successful when he comes to writing the novels, his pro style is rather excitable.

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Again, much like the underwater Venice.

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I've taken a few notes.

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Now, for instance, within the 1st 30 pages of the book.

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I'm cutting you free, the doctor informed him blandly.

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That's not very polite, said the doctor blandly.

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The doctor turned to him blandly.

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I'm only trying to help you.

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Uh, it's just been strange.

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Not a lot of colour and flavour in that.

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You know, I think I think the novel was the 1st time that I ever sort of encountered the story and I have to say I quite liked it.

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Oh, I quite like it too.

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It's just it's just the writing style is a bit sort of odd.

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It's bland perhaps.

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Bland, yes.

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They don't improve much of the doctor.

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Did he not realise how desperate the situation was?

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And my own personal favourite.

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What are they doing?

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Polly wanted to know.

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We call that probing Medok Tolman.

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But at the same time, to be fair, something he's able to do in the novels is he really gets across the ideas he wants to put forward in the story.

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So this is an extract, I just highlighted, not because they amused me, but because I really thought it was funny.

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Another way of exercising powers over them, like voices in the night.

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The colony was nothing more but a multitude of marionettes, the strings being pulled by someone or something that they knew nothing about.

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And that short segment has 3 exclamation points, which I believe makes it a contender for an article in Doctor Who magazine.

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But in that paragraph.

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He really gets across the point of, you know, these people are being controlled.

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It's, he seems to be very much a boy's own writer, but with huge ideas and I really love that sort of melding.

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Well, I think that, I mean, I said this before when we were doing the savages, I think this is about capitalism and that it's a definite satire of capitalism and or maybe an allegory.

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So, you know, Power of Daleks at a very realist kind of approach to what a colony was like, this is a sort of strange colony that's a bit like a holiday camp and then dancing and there's someone who announces, you know, there's an announcer with an American accent who talks about, you know, what's happening next in the colony and gives you all these messages.

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You know, you will work hard and happily and all of these slogans and things and everyone is working in the colony and they're working really hard and they're mining gas and no one knows what the gas is for, you know, and when the doctor asks what's going on.

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Like why are people going to these great lengths and doing all this work to produce the gas?

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Everyone's evasive as if they've never, it's never occurred to them to ask the question before.

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And it turns out that the gas is being used to benefit the macra, who are underlying the colony and controlling it.

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And so it is that idea that our labour is alienated from us.

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It's used to enrich other people.

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You know, that we work hard and everything in the colony is about working hard. you know, you work hard and happy happily, all of that, and it's to enrich, it's to enrich the macra and the macra our enemies.

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So, and we don't realise it.

129
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And the doctor essentially smashes capitalism in the, in, in, in this story is sort of resolution, and he's really happy about it as well.

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And we saw that in the savages, you know, where they were destroying the machinery of the entire system.

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It has the same outcome.

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So um, So I mean, there are sort of potentially dodgy things, aren't there?

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You know, they've colonised an inhabited planet and, you know, there are macro there and, you know, why aren't we on the macro side?

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But the macra are, you know, just sort of part of the allegory, they're very ill defined.

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They're bacteria or insects or, you know, crabs, you know, we don't know, but they're malevolent and they're not acting in our interest, but we are mysteriously doing everything they say and working incredibly hard just to keep them alive.

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It's very much the sort of the sort of thing that the occupy movement is stating as well.

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You know, the idea that it's not the lower classes who are the parasites, because a parasite is something that manages to live off the host animal without being noticed, and the occupied movement goes on to say a bit like the top one% of people who own 99% of the world.

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Exactly.

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And so Ben gets hypnotised and ends up supporting the camp.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Which is very, it's very confronting because he is the most working class character of the 4 regulars.

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And I think that that's why that's why it happens to him because, um, like, again, Sandra says this is a holiday camp.

143
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It's like Buttlands.

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Delta and the Bannerman.

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Perhaps Ben went to one of these on his holidays.

146
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He does actually mention, yeah, this is like the holiday camps when I was a kid.

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And it's also just...

148
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I heard of it.

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And the sound of it is pirate radio, just before radio one started, radio Caroline.

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You know the story of pirate radio, outside Britain, where the funky sounds were coming illegally because the BBC was so dull and they, the mile, you know, just like the Goody's pirate radio station, which is a documentary of the time.

151
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Yes.

152
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So, so, um, Now I walk into Black Park.

153
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So I think that the reason that Ben falls for this isn't that he's working class and it's a holiday camp.

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It's that he's working class and the only way that the working class is kept, he's kept compliant.

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He's on a steady diet of this sort of mystification. where they're constantly reassured that their work is essential for the functioning of the society, even though they themselves derive no benefit from it.

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And so I think I think that that's why Ben falls prey to it.

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But the fun thing, of course, is the Ben isn't a robot or anything like that.

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He's not an automaton.

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He's not Jackie Lane or even Polly mesmerised by Wotan.

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He's still, you know, Ben.

161
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It's just that he's...

162
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It's a really beautiful point that you bring up, and that's why I think their writing in this is very elegant.

163
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And this is actually, possibly, politically and socially the most significant trout and story or Doctor Who story of this season.

164
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It's such a shame that the prisoner comes along later in the year and does it on a bigger budget so much better.

165
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Because the ideas are as salient and just as strong.

166
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You could say that this is about all, um, and that, you know, you know, that this, this is about brainwashing and the it Chris file and the smilest people stuff that we've seen with the Lacaro films and um, Alec Guinness.

167
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These are not the spies you're looking for.

168
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That sort of thing.

169
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Well, it's actually, you're right.

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It's about Saltzen Heightsen, Alexander Salton Heightsen and his novels, but it's also just as much about the USA.

171
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And the same way that we were being fed in misinformation about what was going on, Vietnam, and the psychology that Madison Avenue was using to tell us to be good little consumers.

172
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It's really clever.

173
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Because this is the 1st use of like radio jingles, which I don't think, do you know what I mean?

174
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Which is a Radio Caroline sound.

175
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

176
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But also it is ITVs.

177
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It's kind of a spoof as well on the opposing network, isn't it?

178
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Turnover and this is what the earths sound like.

179
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And isn't it hell?

180
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staying with us and just get nice programming.

181
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So we've...

182
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So essentially, you know, we're anticipating the happiness patrol, I think.

183
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Yeah, you know what I mean?

184
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Which again, is an earth colony in the future, but reasonably vague about when and where and why, where everything is sort of hyper real and sort of strange and where a definite, you know, message is more important than kind of a realistic, um, sort of setting, really.

185
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Um, and it's not just the macra that are lifted from this story and put into gridlock.

186
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It's that whole attitude of maintaining the status quo, even though you know there's something terrible underneath.

187
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And, you know, it's in this story, they're being brainwashed by radio in that story, they're kept together and have a sense of community, thanks to the ability to radio one another, but it's no substitute for actual contact.

188
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And their religion as well.

189
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Redlock.

190
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We'll talk about gridlock in 2028.

191
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Yes.

192
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I'm a huge fan of Gridlock.

193
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Absolutely.

194
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He's only just now that it strikes me that it's terribly appropriate that the MacBook should show up.

195
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Yeah, even though like the macra in gridlock aren't the thinking intelligent creatures they are in the macraterra.

196
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They're still the commonality of theme, which is very nice.

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Getting back to Ben and specifically to Michael Craze, I think this is his best performance in the series as he struggles with the conflict between his programming that he receives in the camp and his sense of loyalty and sense of self.

198
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And when I was reading Anika Will's autobiographies.

199
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She talks about Michael Craigs, who, sadly, is no longer with us, and how talented an actor he was and how she was always amazed that he didn't go on to have a huge career.

200
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When I read that, I kind of went.

201
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Okay, yeah, he's all, you know, he's all riding war machines because I hadn't seen.

202
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I hadn't seen or heard any of these at that point.

203
00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:50.100
But then when I watched the Macroterra, I went, well, you know, just from the audio, I can tell that this guy is an amazing actor and it made me feel all the sadder that, one, he's shortly to be gone from the series.

204
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:56.519
And 2, that he didn't achieve high heights later on in his career.

205
00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:00.720
I think he really should have done because it's a very subtle performance.

206
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:05.940
And as you said, Richard, this story has a lot in common with the prisoner further down the line.

207
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:14.519
And yeah, I think that Michael Graves could have become a big leading man in the same way that Patrick McGillan was.

208
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:21.000
I think they do share some of the subtleties of acting in their performance and it's just a shame we didn't get to see more of it.

209
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:22.319
It's very short though.

210
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:24.660
Yeah, I was going to say, he's a big leading man.

211
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:31.019
It's more a kind of shame or high noon, Gary Cooper kind of, you know, on a box.

212
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:33.000
Don Adams was very short.

213
00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:34.799
Dawn Adams.

214
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:36.420
She was.

215
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.220
Polly's hair.

216
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.079
Yeah.

217
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.640
She surprised everyone going all me at Farrow, Twiggy...

218
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:49.319
Really hot with the with the razor cut gaman style, and it's gorgeous.

219
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:51.420
She gotten some short shrift.

220
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.799
Yeah, she got a troubled lucers.

221
00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:53.099
Yeah.

222
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:56.700
Yeah, but it really just makes her eyes and mouth look bigger when she screams.

223
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:57.240
It works really well.

224
00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:58.380
She looks lovely.

225
00:17:58.440 --> 00:17:59.819
I mean, she just looks fantastic.

226
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:02.099
And the whole outfit that she wears in, this is great.

227
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:11.519
But, uh, they obviously travel around in the TARDIS for a while between this and the faceless ones because it's grown out completely by uh, by the next story.

228
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:17.160
Well, I believe that's where Big Finish put all their, uh, Hanging Chronicles, so that works.

229
00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:23.460
So did she mention like every few episodes in those companion chronicles that she's decided to grow ahead.

230
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.200
My hair was getting much longer now.

231
00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:30.960
Although she is amazing in those.

232
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:33.539
I met Anika.

233
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:43.380
I was very lucky she came to a convention and she was just lovely and I told her I was a Latin teacher and she told me she was an ancient Roman in a previous life and we just hit it off.

234
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.099
It was...

235
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:45.000
With the same haircut.

236
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.200
But she's just gorgeous, absolutely lovely.

237
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:51.059
Ben and Polly.

238
00:18:51.119 --> 00:19:00.839
Ah, shortly to be written out and only replaced by one character because the writers felt, oh, you know, you can't have 3 characters running about, 3 companions running about.

239
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:03.480
But in their story, they use 3 companions to great effect.

240
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:07.559
You know, you've got you've got Ben struggling with his control.

241
00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:22.740
You've got Polly working in the mines, and you've actually got Jamie as the one who tries to escape and is menaced by the monsters in what would have been a traditional role for the female character, whereas Polly then gets paired up with the doctor and helps him do scientific things.

242
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:25.859
Yeah, I think it's less...

243
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.019
Oh, the writers can't do anything with 3 characters.

244
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:35.819
As maybe for some of the stories this season, they chose the wrong writers because Ian Stewart Black can clearly do something with 3 characters.

245
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.440
It's funny, isn't it?

246
00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:49.740
Because it hasn't really settled down to what we kind of regard as the default mode, which is the doctor travels with a human girl and what we're going to get for the next 2 years is the doctor travelling with Jamie and Victoria.

247
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.200
Victoria and Zoe.

248
00:19:53.099 --> 00:19:55.259
No, that's someone else.

249
00:19:56.099 --> 00:20:14.759
The thing that is going to make me sad and will come up, you know, will get there in a moment, is that we're not going to have any recognisable human beings or audience identification characters from here on in until the 1970s.

250
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:25.079
It's going to be Victoria in a crazy frock. or Zoe, but we don't have anyone who can make contemporary earth reference.

251
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.940
Sure. 2 episodes in.

252
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:34.500
They're into miniskirts and hippie beads and or MMP or cat suits and saying exactly the same stuff that Maureen O'Brien was made to say.

253
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.019
No, I don't think that's true at all.

254
00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:39.720
I think Victoria is a much blander character than Vicky.

255
00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:41.099
Well, say she's not black.

256
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:42.720
She's not there.

257
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:43.559
We're not there yet.

258
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:46.799
We may we may proceed towards that.

259
00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:57.059
I know this is your one, Nathan, but I'm just gonna say 1st and foremost.

260
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:00.059
We have Dr. Pickering and Wanda Bentham for the 1st time.

261
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.480
Yay, in Gatwick Airport.

262
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:07.259
They're Benedict Cumberbun's parents, very sort of-ish.

263
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.279
Well, no, she is.

264
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:10.319
I'm not sure of it, no, not as such.

265
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:21.240
Although, that means that Benedict Cumberbatch is part Lucertian, and part air traffic controller. cabin pressure, that's right.

266
00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:30.180
We'll put a link to that at the end, please, in my favourite sick radio sitcom of all time that launched Benedict Cumberbatch's career and it's joyous.

267
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.140
The final episode is aired this Christmas.

268
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.900
And it's Stephanie Cole as well, isn't it?

269
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.279
It is definitely Cole.

270
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:49.140
It was going to be Wanda playing his mother in one episode, but for whatever reason, the lovely Prunilla scales does it and does it beautifully, but I can't feel sad, but they didn't keep it in the family like they did with Sheryl.

271
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.339
Sherlock, yeah, yeah.

272
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:58.140
So this is kind of funny and it's going to be like the faces ones goes for 6 episodes and we have episodes one and three.

273
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:03.539
And for some reason they were kind of widely available even back in the late 80s.

274
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:04.380
I remember.

275
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.420
I'm sure that I had them on videotape.

276
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:09.720
I'm sure that I had evil and the 2 episodes of the faceless ones.

277
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:17.400
I think they were returned quite early on when the BBC put out a call and said, actually, we don't have these, if you have them, can you send them back?

278
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:19.559
So I think they may have been returned by a TV station.

279
00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:20.579
Right.

280
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:21.480
I could be wrong on that.

281
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:21.779
Right.

282
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.720
So, um, I mean, I kind of like this one.

283
00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:26.160
It's a little bit strange.

284
00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:29.460
It's a little bit formless and the funny thing is that it doesn't really end.

285
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:36.119
You know, Ben and Polly disappear and then the doctor and Jamie just sort of wander off because the TARNIS is gone or something.

286
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:40.619
So it's not, it's, you know, the beginning of sort of 7 episodes where they're just hanging around on earth.

287
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.359
And it's set the day that Ben and Polly leave at the end of the war machine.

288
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:49.740
So they've been gone no time at all, which I think is sort of rather fabulous.

289
00:22:49.799 --> 00:23:09.000
So it's set in the recent past and it's set in Gatwick Airport and you get this fantastic, uh, like, you know, most of Gatwick Airports just sort of crummy sets, obviously, but there are some really, really great, huge location shots of, you know, um, planes landing and things and escalators and these huge concourses and stuff.

290
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:10.859
And that's that's really fun.

291
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.119
Very Mauld.

292
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:15.420
It is. trying to find just how cool and movie it can be.

293
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.119
And we kind of forget too.

294
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:30.720
And this is something that, you know, that when we do our, you know, flight through Russia with love podcast, we'll talk about this, but part of the appeal of the Bond films in the 60s is that people don't really travel abroad.

295
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:32.099
No, it was a big groovy thing.

296
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:39.299
You did it if you were young and you spent all your savings from working that year on a summer package trip, which meant you turned up at the airport.

297
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:40.740
Chameleons, yeah.

298
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:41.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

299
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:49.859
But so airports are, you know, for us, an airport kind of leads to that sort of sinking feeling, doesn't it?

300
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:54.000
But, um, because we've often felt going to...

301
00:23:54.059 --> 00:24:02.099
You know how they have their own police force and they've always had their own completely independent force with their own rights and rules and regulations.

302
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:09.299
Yeah, which is why it's so very much like an episode of Thought about air we could Gapport, the famous Gapport.

303
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.059
I think that's what he was to send to the lavatory.

304
00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:17.880
So But the other funny thing about it too.

305
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:23.099
And it's completely incidental to the original intention of the story is just how crazy it is.

306
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:39.119
So there's one point where they have to ring up foreign countries to find out what's happened to the planes and we're terribly worried about how much that will cost because, you know, like overseas, like making phone calls overseas. these sort of horribly expensive.

307
00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:45.839
Spectacularly twee mobulousness, script riding in the middle of something that's meant to be glamorous and international.

308
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:46.319
Is it?

309
00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:50.819
The doctor pretends to throw a bomb at someone like...

310
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:56.759
That is this story is about territoriality and fear of...

311
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.880
We hadn't actually had hijackings yet or had we?

312
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:15.420
This is a thing that was more with Paddy Hearst syndrome in the early 70s. and the Simbionese liberation army and, you know, a group of ash tons of intellectuals and kids that, you know, done a lot of asset and got a bit cranky about Vietnam and said, let's do some.

313
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:16.859
I'm not meaning to belittle it.

314
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:25.559
Because, you know, there's arguments on both sides, but Sinn Fein had been agitating, but not to the point that is familiar to ask kids now.

315
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:34.799
So people weren't thinking the fact that the security and things are so lax and all of that, we haven't yet had, um, uh, hijackings and stuff.

316
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:51.420
We haven't as such, but we did have a knock Powell doing his rivers of blood speech and we were terrified about immigration and the whole white Australia policy that we had operating in this time here, which is, you know, if you're English or South Africa, you look like us.

317
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:52.319
It's fine.

318
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:55.920
You can come in and you're probably nice, but if you're not, well, it's going to be a lot harder.

319
00:25:55.980 --> 00:26:04.380
Now, Britain's colonies, of course, were devolving, and you had a lot of immigrants coming from the West Indies and from other parts of the Monster Empire.

320
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:11.220
This was causing a lot of chat in Parliament, as in the media, who knows if it was causing that much problem on the streets.

321
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.279
It's just like now, isn't it, when we're getting stirred up for whatever reason.

322
00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.960
But do you think that this is, so you're saying there's an immigration kind of metaphor happening here?

323
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:22.380
I suspect so, since a lot of it's about what's going on there.

324
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.180
Well, where is the, where is the Frisson?

325
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.440
Where is the agitation coming?

326
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:28.559
So the chameleon tours have lost there.

327
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:30.000
Was it a galaxy accident?

328
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:31.259
In a galaxy accident?

329
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:33.359
They lost their identities in a galaxy accident.

330
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:34.019
Was it?

331
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:35.039
That wasn't the Refusians?

332
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:35.640
No.

333
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.480
Just wait for Moffat to start picking up on this one.

334
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:40.680
There be a galaxy accident.

335
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:43.740
Anyway, some kind of terrible galaxy accident has happened.

336
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:45.660
I'm sure it was there a few.

337
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.779
You're probably right, but everything's a galaxy.

338
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:53.039
Yes, a galaxy accident where although they weren't all horribly killed.

339
00:26:53.099 --> 00:27:07.319
They did way managed to get up the next day. and realise, oh, we don't know who we are, what we're doing, but I don't know, let's go to Earth and make spaceships that look like VC 10s and start up in an international business and appetize to a niche teenage market.

340
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:08.279
How about that?

341
00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:12.660
Really, if you're going to have those sort of objections, we need to stop watching this show.

342
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.519
Because, you know, running.

343
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:26.099
I haven't even got to the whole why Polly is an alien pretending to be someone else pretending not to be Polly, when she doesn't just say, oh, they, well, the doctor's appearing to be a difficulty to our plans.

344
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:31.259
Why not just squeeze her into that and she can sabotage whatever he's doing?

345
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.660
Nah, I'm just going to sit here and pretend to be something.

346
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.019
It's sitcom land really without the loud jokes.

347
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.440
And yeah, it does rather imply, and it's never really settled.

348
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:44.579
Is there actually a Michelle P out there who looks just like polish.

349
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.279
Ooh, now that's an interesting other story all in itself.

350
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:49.380
And so they're stealing human idea.

351
00:27:49.440 --> 00:28:01.440
They're miniaturising humans, stealing their identities, which is the kind of thing that racists fear, you know, they come over and they're going to take our place, invasion of the body snatchers, kind of.

352
00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:06.720
But what does, I mean, you know, does that mean that this is a kind of racist parable then?

353
00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:07.740
Do you know what I mean?

354
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:09.900
Because aren't we right to fear them?

355
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:18.599
I mean, I guess the doctor does resolve it by, you know, helping them out and coming to an agreement and no one's blown up and no one.

356
00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:25.259
There's the evil Donald Pickering, who, you know, he's evil, but not all of them are evil.

357
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:41.220
Well, I think there's definitely an immigration, possibly refugee theme to it because the chameleons are coming here because they are in such dire straits and they're coming here to have a life.

358
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.220
Now, their methods may be questionable.

359
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.480
But when they're confronted about earth methods and given an alternative, which isn't going to hurt anyone.

360
00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:49.859
They go, oh yes, definitely, let's do that.

361
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.619
It's quite a typical ending, that ending.

362
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:58.680
Um, with the doctor saying, well, how about you try this scientific method and they go, oh, you know what?

363
00:28:58.740 --> 00:28:59.579
Yes, that's wonderful.

364
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:05.400
We didn't have the science to do that, but yes, that's definitely what we'd like to do because we hate that we have to do this thing.

365
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:06.779
What do they do?

366
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.720
They have to put you in a cupboard and then put on your identity?

367
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:11.160
Yeah, exactly.

368
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:19.200
This is also coming from, I mean, if you want to look at what, why this story is here, it's kind of, well, the laziness of this, Lloyd.

369
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:29.940
There was a film that just came out a few years before called so long at the fair, starring Dirk Bogart, who we already mentioned as being the glamour boy of 60s, um, Britain, the thinking set night.

370
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:36.779
He's the kind of the Tony Perkins of Britain at the time has certainly seen as a simulacer, that guy, you know, all swab and satinine.

371
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:45.960
Anyway, this film was set in the 1899 World's Fear, but it was about a bloke who was assisting a young girl's hunt for her missing brother.

372
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:48.299
It was based on a true story or her missing brother.

373
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:49.500
Brother.

374
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.500
That's right, because, of course, we have the girl now played by Sula Black.

375
00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:55.019
No, she's pretty.

376
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:56.519
Isn't she meant to be silver black?

377
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.660
Oh, wasn't she being groomed?

378
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:02.220
in this story to be?

379
00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:03.359
Yeah, what was that?

380
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:05.519
She does look like she's a replacement companion.

381
00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:21.900
Well, they have this weird thing with Michael Craze and Anika Wills's contracts that they're actually contracted up until the end of Evil of the Daleks, episode two, but they decided let's actually write them out as early as possible for reasons we mentioned when we were talking about the macro terror.

382
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.980
There was this conception that 3 companions weren't working.

383
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:34.200
But it was apparently when they saw how Pauline Collins was working with Fraser Heinz, they offered her the job.

384
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:39.779
Much like they did with Fraser. like they kind of went, oh, we like this up a lot of you a job.

385
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:41.099
They did that with her and she turned it down.

386
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:41.700
Right.

387
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:52.140
She, I mean, she's terrifically funny in it, and she gets to do the accent that Dodo would have liked to have been able to do for longer. liveable.

388
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.160
She's a Liverpool girl.

389
00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:54.299
She was a mate with the Beatles.

390
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:58.079
He was talking about Sam or... or Sealer Black.

391
00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:59.099
Not sylla black.

392
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:03.119
She's she's Northern, so it's possible.

393
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.859
I mean, she, Pauline Collins will be known to new who fans as Queen Victoria.

394
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.799
She does come back and play Queen Victorian.

395
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:12.960
Without a Liverpool accent without the accent.

396
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.599
But not amused.

397
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.920
But she's really sweet with Jamie and like she kisses him.

398
00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:29.160
She kind of fancies him and stuff and makes that clear and that's that's kind of modern, you know, that skirts the problem of Susan a bit, doesn't it?

399
00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:32.220
It's like young female sexuality and she kisses him.

400
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:40.140
But he takes the opportunity to steal her ticket and all of that sort of thing and she's bullshy and demanding and stuff and she's really plucky.

401
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.500
She helps the doctor and she does work really well with Jamie.

402
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:46.559
I think she would have been she would have been terrific.

403
00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:54.240
But, like, they're writing Ben and Polly out, but they choose to write them out in episode one. like they don't even get to go on it.

404
00:31:54.299 --> 00:31:56.160
Yeah, and then Polly reappeared.

405
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.819
Oh, Polly reappears, the pens, or...

406
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:03.539
Yeah, it's very, very strange.

407
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.940
And what I find even stranger about it is.

408
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.619
The story is about the absence of Ben and Polly.

409
00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:18.539
You know, because that's the doctrine that Jamie's driving force. you know, they're constantly mentioned, what about them?

410
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:19.259
What about Polly?

411
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:23.339
about halfway through the story, they forget for a bit, and then start mentioning them again in episode five?

412
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:25.859
But yes, it is very strange.

413
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:34.619
And because their appearance in episode 6 is a pre-filmed insert at the Epic Airport, They didn't have to come into the studio after that 2nd episode.

414
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:39.119
So it's, it's kind of odd because the doctor and Jamie spent the next few episodes.

415
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:40.380
Oh, we must rescue Ben and Polly.

416
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:41.519
We must rescue Ben and Polly.

417
00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:43.680
We never see them and they're not even there.

418
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.460
So...

419
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:47.279
Have they learned nothing from Dodo?

420
00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:50.519
But I think they handle it better than Dodo, though.

421
00:32:50.579 --> 00:33:02.339
And I remember thinking, because we've had this discussion before, about how poorly served the 60s companions are in their departures, and Dodo, in particular, who also leaves midstory and just never gets heard of again.

422
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:08.640
But I actually thought that the final scene with Ben and Polly was actually quite sweet.

423
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:09.599
You know what I mean?

424
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:13.140
Like, that they did say a proper goodbye.

425
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.339
And like it was.

426
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:20.880
I don't I don't know, you know, I think it's a shame that they decided to abandon the idea of contemporary human companions.

427
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:27.119
I always think it's a good idea whenever anyone in the new series is, but they're always girls from London, you know, like what's going on.

428
00:33:27.180 --> 00:33:47.819
I kind of think, well, you know, just think about the long 80s or, you know, the late 60s when you don't get contemporary humans and that will cure you, I think, of that desire because, um, you know, it's the, it's the contrast between contemporary humans and the crazy adventures that they end up in.

429
00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:51.420
That's the fun, that's the free song of it.

430
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:59.099
And I've talked about hating historicals, but, you know, again, Santa points out these people belong in history.

431
00:33:59.160 --> 00:33:59.759
Do you know what I mean?

432
00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:03.539
You can't do a historical, if your companions are Jamie and Victoria.

433
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:04.740
Do you know what I mean?

434
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.420
Because they're from the past.

435
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.000
What do you do?

436
00:34:09.059 --> 00:34:14.460
sort of send them to mediaeval England or czars cave or something. you know what I mean?

437
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.860
Like, you know, there's kind of no point.

438
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:19.320
I think this needs more jokes.

439
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:25.139
I mean, I think it's, I think it's pretty entertaining.

440
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.280
Do you know what I mean?

441
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:27.539
Like, I think it does what it needs to do.

442
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:28.619
The recon.

443
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:30.599
So, of course, we only have episodes one and three.

444
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:38.639
So loose cannon reconstructions have made a fabulous CG plane and a fabulous CG space station that the plane goes in.

445
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.519
Which look very close to the existing telly snaps.

446
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:45.599
They did a really good job in terms of design and in terms of their direction.

447
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:48.000
Yeah, of the shots.

448
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:52.559
I was pretty impressed and it was a fun surprise.

449
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:53.880
I wasn't expecting it at all.

450
00:34:53.940 --> 00:35:00.059
So, but, you know, like it moves along and stuff and it's got some fun bits and it's got Wanda and Donald Pickering.

451
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.820
And it still manages to be different from time flight.

452
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:13.199
Yeah, how can you build a convincing air traffic control room in the studio in 196667.

453
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:21.960
And then have air traffic control at Heathrow, a bigger airport as one little computer terminal in a cupboard in 1982.

454
00:35:22.139 --> 00:35:23.340
I do not understand.

455
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.579
It's really not that convincing United States.

456
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:29.579
Still manages to be better almost 20 years.

457
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:30.960
No, no, no.

458
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:31.739
This is quite fun.

459
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.079
It's not the train wreck that time flight is.

460
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:35.699
Spoiler alert.

461
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.760
I am going to have fun when we get to time point, though, because even though it's a train wreck.

462
00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:39.719
I kind like it.

463
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:46.920
It's a good thing and it balances humour and scariness and, you know, an intriguing spectacle better than a lot of other shows.

464
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:49.380
It's if you want to look at what it is.

465
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.400
It's, you're looking at this show, um, now it's Doctor Who.

466
00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:54.659
We haven't quite got to the point yet.

467
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.559
Later on, as we do, is what's the new gimmick monster this week?

468
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:02.099
It's what's the new gimmick situation scenario.

469
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.519
We've been to the moon because that's what everyone's doing.

470
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.579
Apollo had just learned, 1st Apollo had just launched.

471
00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:12.179
We're now in an airport because that's what groovy things are doing.

472
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:14.340
So where worthy are we going to next week?

473
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.760
He's got a ticket to ride.

474
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:21.659
He's got a ticket to ride.

475
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:26.579
He's got to take it to ride. but he don't care.

476
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.760
That's pretty groovy, really.

477
00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:32.280
I think it was indistinguishable from the original, actually.

478
00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:54.780
Well, it's all we're allowed to use now because, as you know, from the audio versions of this, paperback writer was broadcast as part of their 1st episode of the interminably groovy and a bit spectacular evil of the Daleks, as was the seekers, nobody's known the trouble I've seen. and that is still on their BBC audio that said they'll be missing paperback writer, but we've got the next best things.

479
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:56.579
Thank you very much, Brendan, for that.

480
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:58.980
There's so much in this that's so much fun.

481
00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:05.880
Nathan, you were saying, the 1st episode is pretty much radically different from anything else this season or anything else in this story.

482
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.300
Yeah, so the TARDIS has gone missing.

483
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:16.619
And I think that that's announced at the end of the faces one. someone you know, you know what, though, don't you?

484
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:18.480
It was grabbed by the leather men.

485
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:20.760
That's the removal company.

486
00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.440
I mean, it's not there's a hell of a lot of this Joe Wharton referencing going on in this.

487
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:36.360
We didn't mention that Mr. Orton, in his diaries, singled out Fraser Hines as being someone he'd really liked to have cast in his notorious entertaining Mr. Sloan.

488
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.579
It's being a lovely little boy.

489
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:39.119
Yeah.

490
00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:40.619
There's a lot of that going on.

491
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:44.639
That's when he was jumping up and down in his one piece rubber onesie wetsuit thingy.

492
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:46.139
We don't get much of that in this story.

493
00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:49.139
We get a lot of other carry-on dialogue.

494
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:53.340
If you listen to it as an audio as I do, it's very carry on.

495
00:37:53.400 --> 00:38:00.719
I mean, the funny thing about it, and again, it's another attempt to be really modern and as you were saying, really modern up to the minute.

496
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:01.860
And so it's a coffee shop.

497
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:03.840
It's like a cool coffee shop with a French name.

498
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:09.059
And in fact, the funny thing about it is that trickleur, yeah.

499
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:09.960
Yes, that's it.

500
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.500
Nothing at all really happens for the 1st episode.

501
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.000
It's a lot of marking time.

502
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:15.840
It is.

503
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:17.340
Richard Lester or the NAC.

504
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:18.900
It's one of those Beatles Chase movies.

505
00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:22.079
We're waiting for TARDES, place over there.

506
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:23.519
A bit of that as well.

507
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.659
There's some great lines.

508
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:28.139
And finally, then we end up doing Budum and Crash.

509
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:34.019
Comic-Con, 2011, where you've got Professor Waterfield dressed as a Matt Smith fan.

510
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.780
Exactly the same costume. really is.

511
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:58.920
And the whole show then starts to do probably the biggest thing, you know, as we've said before, this whole season is not so much about the monsters, I think it's more interesting because it says, what can what else can Doctor Who be as a TV show in other TV shows, carrying on straight from that 1st episode when we look into the TARDIS monitor and see the whole world as a TV set.

512
00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:01.739
This one is doing what's the biggest hit right now on TV.

513
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:06.300
It's the foresight saga, Donald Wilson's production.

514
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:06.840
Yeah, exactly.

515
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:10.260
The guy who's almost started Doctor Who kind of almost started Doctor Who.

516
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.539
From the John Galsworthy novels.

517
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:14.760
It was the hugest, hugest thing.

518
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:18.480
It ran for 6 months, and it was still being repeated.

519
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:22.679
I saw it as a little boy in the early 1970s on Australian TV bits of it.

520
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:25.019
It was it went on for more than 10 years.

521
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:29.699
It was just, I guess, before upstairs downstairs, one of those programs.

522
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.800
Proto Downton Abbey.

523
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:32.820
Yeah, exactly.

524
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:33.360
Thank you.

525
00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:36.659
But about the politics of the upstairs and the downstairs.

526
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:48.780
And the 1st one to talk about real class cataclysm, class clashes, but without all of the stern drum, melodrama and soapiness of some of the later ones, it took itself reasonably seriously.

527
00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:53.039
But yeah, it was surprisingly for everyone concerned, phenomenally successful.

528
00:39:53.159 --> 00:40:00.360
And I think we'll start to see where the character of the young girl, who, in her 1st scenes is kind of fabulous, isn't she?

529
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:01.139
Molly?

530
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:03.119
Ah, how interesting.

531
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:21.000
Yes, for about 5 or 6 episodes, 4 or 5 episodes of this, we get a plucky young girl again who has lots of great interaction with the young male lead who really has a winning and vibrant affiliation with the with the lead casting, who you think is just going to fit in so beautifully.

532
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:25.559
And then, of course, she disappears completely, and it's the other one who's a bit whiny, but looks good in a frog.

533
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.320
Big eyes, pretty big eyes.

534
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:30.059
And she is very, she is very beautiful.

535
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:31.739
Of course, we're talking about Debbie Watling.

536
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:36.900
And when we mentioned Peter Jeffrey before, as being some coup casting for this season.

537
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:41.099
Debbie Watling is apparently the biggest star doctor who had ever had up to this point.

538
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:42.539
She was a child actor?

539
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:43.619
Very much so.

540
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.679
She played Alice in Wonderland.

541
00:40:46.739 --> 00:40:52.559
And that was so Keystone, Big BBC Pro. BBC thing, but she was not.

542
00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:56.219
Yeah, she was wildly known as a child actor and really, very good.

543
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:58.320
I think she's amazing in that scene.

544
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:02.460
This is David Whittaker doing, do not feed the flying.

545
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:04.320
So, do not make up.

546
00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:10.380
Yeah, you know, she's clearly scared, but she's not petrified at the point of being meek.

547
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:17.579
You know, she's quite bullshy with the Dalek, but still being realistically scared as a young Victorian lady would be.

548
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.320
You know, it's a bit silly that, oh, we've got this new character from the Victorian era.

549
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:23.039
What shall we call her?

550
00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:23.760
Victoria.

551
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:27.659
They all went home early, you see, after they came up with that.

552
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:36.900
But, you know, if the young if the young princess of the time was called Victoria, and then you had a daughter, it's quite understandable that you might call her Victoria.

553
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:47.099
You know, there's probably going to be a lot of Kate's and George's being born in the next few years because the Princess Kate and the young Prince George. with just as much.

554
00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:51.539
Just as much narrative truth and reason for about it as well.

555
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:56.880
Oh, yeah, look, this is carry on up. up the downstairs upstairs, isn't it, really?

556
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.920
And then there is more to it than that, though, isn't there?

557
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:05.280
Because there's Maxtable and he's a really sort of sinister.

558
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:06.239
Oh he's gorgeous.

559
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:19.199
Yeah, and he outshines the later on in the story when you get to the big bad boys in the team suits, he manages to actually outshine both Paddy and the Daleks in the series, he's in with them.

560
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:23.579
Because, yeah, it's like, it's one thing to have a dalek that's evil.

561
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:24.480
You just go, yeah, okay.

562
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:28.139
But he is just utterly selfish and evil.

563
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:29.400
Like, he wants his gold.

564
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.079
He wants his alchemic secret.

565
00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:32.940
And if you get in the way.

566
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:34.559
Forget you.

567
00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.340
He's very much contrasted with Waterfield.

568
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:43.739
I was thinking, waddling, I was thinking, Travers, you know, thinking.

569
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:45.780
So in this?

570
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:51.659
Straight out of the Poachers season 7 shed or Dickens book, yes.

571
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:53.820
Or Joe Alton play, actually.

572
00:42:53.880 --> 00:43:01.199
So he's he's really worried about Kennedy dying and then someone else dies and he remembers, do you know what I mean?

573
00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:02.940
And his hand ringing about it.

574
00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:11.579
And that's contrasted with Maxstable, and it gives us the chance to see how manipulative Maxstable is and how insincere.

575
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:21.480
And so, you know, um, Waterfield and Maxville, Waterfield thinks they're accomplices, but Max Stables playing Waterfield the entire time.

576
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:33.840
And what they've done is they've used electrified mirrors that have attracted Daleks into the past or something in this sort of crazy demented way.

577
00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:38.039
The alchemic way that David Whitaker writes static electricity.

578
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.199
Yes, yeah. everything he does. gorgeous.

579
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:41.460
It was static electricity.

580
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:46.440
And so it is, it's this mad steampunk Victorian thing.

581
00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:47.159
Thank you.

582
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:54.420
Where, you know, you've got all of these sort of strange machines and then you've got the Daleks gliding through looking for all the world as if they belong.

583
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:55.260
They look terrific.

584
00:43:55.320 --> 00:44:04.199
But they're not given very much to do, and it is, I actually think, you know, power of the Daleks makes us wait for the Daleks to be threatening.

585
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:08.159
Here, we are here.

586
00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:15.719
I think the weight is a bit less successful and it just feels a bit longer and a bit more padded than power.

587
00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:22.019
And so, uh, even though you've actually got episode 2 of evil of the Daleks to watch.

588
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:28.860
I actually do think it does start to wear out its welcome a little bit until we're off to Scaro.

589
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:33.119
There is a lot of that chasing about corridors again, although we can't see it.

590
00:44:33.179 --> 00:44:37.619
There's a whole lot of visual impact in the description.

591
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:57.539
Again, a lot of this feels like it's doing, um, contemporary plays and again, Joe Orton at the time, the image of Jamie and the Turkish camel, rottering about the corridors in, in such a way as if it depicted by Tom of Finland in the graphic covers for a Commonwealth Games brochure for nighting.

592
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.860
They do sound like they're doing all the trials and tribulations that you do.

593
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.860
It's a knockout or something or what's that?

594
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.380
I mean, I didn't have that then.

595
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:11.400
They had gamesmanship amongst the and that's chaps with, you know, chasing hankies.

596
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:15.179
It's very strange and I don't understand why camels mute.

597
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:16.500
Why has Campbell got to be mute?

598
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.239
And why is he's Turkish?

599
00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:20.639
Do they cast a big black guy to be mused?

600
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:29.760
And when Maxwell says, oh, you know, he can't talk because his mind is undeveloped, but he can read, but he can read, he can read.

601
00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:37.019
He can perform complex physical tasks which involve things like deciding whether a beam can take his weight.

602
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:39.300
You know, he can collude with others.

603
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:41.940
I don't know why they do that.

604
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:42.900
That's just annoying.

605
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:43.980
It's off footing.

606
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:46.920
And of course he has to be killed at the end, which just annoys me as well.

607
00:45:46.980 --> 00:46:01.079
I mean, maybe they're trying to sort of say, oh, this is what the Victorian era was like, and this is how people from other countries were treated. and, you know, yeah, but there's nothing. they never do anything to reverse that.

608
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:13.139
You know, it could it could have been quite fun if after Kimmel's adventure with Jamie, which I think goes on for far too long, you know, it stretches over episodes three, four, and a little bit into 5 as well.

609
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:15.179
Yeah.

610
00:46:15.179 --> 00:46:15.539
Yeah.

611
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.960
I think it would have been great if Kimmel had spoken to Jovi.

612
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:24.780
And if people said to him afterwards, well, hold on, why have you never spoken to us, he could have said, well, he treats me like a person.

613
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.900
You don't treat me like anything, so why would I talk to you?

614
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:33.480
That would have been a wonderful inversion and would have added a lot of meaning to Camel and Jamie's relationship.

615
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:43.500
In fact, the only thing that nearly saves Camel and it doesn't really go anywhere near far enough is that Victoria trusts him and likes him and...

616
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:44.400
She's very fond of him.

617
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:56.760
And that kind of sells him as a human being a bit, but it is lazy and a bit shoddy, I think, and a bit of a shame in an otherwise pretty a pretty good story.

618
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:07.320
This, of course, is one of the ones where only one episode exists, and of course, we're reaching the end of series four, thank God, where we don't have a single intact story.

619
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:11.579
Yeah, most we've got is half a story. half of 2 stories, I should say.

620
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:12.900
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

621
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.000
It's a bit of a slog.

622
00:47:15.059 --> 00:47:17.219
But the loose cannon reconstruction.

623
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:21.119
So really fun. and Richard, you prefer listening to them.

624
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:22.139
I like listening to them, yeah.

625
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:24.179
But the loose cannon people.

626
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:29.400
Actually went back to the location, the hotel in which this was shot.

627
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:32.159
I did a day's filming and they had a Dalek.

628
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:39.000
They had someone in a Victoria wig and in her frock who could just sort of see walking along long corridors and stuff like that.

629
00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:45.659
And then they do all this CG, they do CG, Jamie, and Campbell climbing up the balcony to get to Victoria.

630
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.119
And like some of it's a bit cheesy.

631
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.219
And there's stacks of CG Daleks everywhere.

632
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.840
It's really, really fun.

633
00:47:51.900 --> 00:48:00.179
And they go out of their way to try and not introduce anything new because they're, you know, they're a bit OCD and that's how they want to do it.

634
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:00.900
You know what I mean?

635
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.519
I think they prefer the term purist.

636
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:03.780
Purists.

637
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:04.920
That's a much better word.

638
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:07.019
And they do a terrific job.

639
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:14.519
Like there's so much work has gone into it and they really, really do make it, they do make it watchable, which is kind of fun.

640
00:48:14.579 --> 00:48:17.460
They do make it a lot of fun, don't they?

641
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:25.739
And it's a great lead up to the big bang end of the season where we once again end up on Planet Scaro, Musical Include.

642
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:32.639
And those, the final 2 episodes on Scarrow, well, 2.5 episodes on Scarrow, they just really, really pick it up.

643
00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:33.960
It's quite amazing.

644
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:40.260
It's a bit like the original Daleks, which is a game of 2 halves and the 1st half is vastly superior.

645
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:45.179
But in this one, it's the 2nd half that's vastly superior, and we get the payoff.

646
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.139
We get to pay off to the last 5 episodes, but we also get.

647
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:54.360
We also get the emperor, darling.

648
00:48:54.420 --> 00:49:04.320
I was going to say we get the payoff to 5 years worth of Dalek lore because of course this is the end of the Daleks in Doctor Who for the pussyeable.

649
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:07.920
They thought for truly for the end, and Paddy certainly behaves that way.

650
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:09.300
This is where we get them.

651
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:10.920
Thank you again, David Whittaker.

652
00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:19.139
His inclusion of his writing for the Century 21 comic strip, the Emperor Dalek, from that into the narrative of this.

653
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:24.960
So we're really getting a lovely conclusion of the disparate Doctor Universes coming to the one story at the end.

654
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:29.579
And what we've neglected is bringing them down to 2 allegorical forces.

655
00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:40.320
And power of the Daleks kind of does this where the Daleks represent or come out of the human evil that infest the colony politically.

656
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:45.960
You know, colony and power of the Daleks, everyone's backbiting and stuff like that, and that allows the Daleks to emerge.

657
00:49:46.019 --> 00:50:05.820
Here we have, here we have humanity and Dalek kind, rayified as the human factor and the Dalek factor, and it allows us to do really new things with the Daleks, which include, you know, the fabulous Daleks playing, saying, dizzy doctor, that incredible cliffhanger is that episode four.

658
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:07.079
With the trains.

659
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:11.820
Yes, where the Daleks are playing trains and the doctors, you know, riding on the diamonds.

660
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:12.659
James horrified.

661
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:18.059
And the Daleks call the doctor friend and all of that sort of thing.

662
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:25.980
So the Daleks, thanks to Jamie and all of that padding in the middle episodes, there are now 2 factions of Daleks.

663
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:30.360
There's the human Daleks, the human factor Daleks, and just the Dalek factor Daleks.

664
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:37.679
Which are the ones with the pointy heads that look like the Lewis Marks pullback friction drive action dialects.

665
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:39.119
That was Planet of the Dale.

666
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:40.320
I do it in this one as well.

667
00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:43.019
They use Lewis Mark.

668
00:50:43.019 --> 00:50:43.980
Did you?

669
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:49.980
The doctor gets to see the biggest, baddest badass Dalek in the entire history of Dalekness.

670
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:55.260
Do you know what the emperor dalek was called on the set by pretty much most of the production crew?

671
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:55.800
Gordon.

672
00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:58.619
I wish, the queen, darling, the queen died.

673
00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:03.480
To continue my thing. ostensibly maybe because of the honeycomb sets.

674
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:15.480
So this is meant to be the same city that Barbara Ian and Susan visited all those years ago and Roberta Toby a year after that.

675
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:20.820
Because you said, Richard, the doctor knows his way out of it.

676
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:22.860
But the design is so different, isn't it?

677
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:34.619
And the design is fantastic and it is this thing where a lot of trout and sets, you know, they paint the walls black and then they use sort of grids and things and so there's sort of negative space behind the walls.

678
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:39.539
Like the top of the pops already steady go set for a dusty Springfield song.

679
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:43.559
It was really very sensitive to pop iconography on TV.

680
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:44.579
And it looks great.

681
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:45.539
It really does.

682
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:46.260
That's fantastic.

683
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.679
And so the emperor dialect just sort of emerges out of that giant sand.

684
00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:51.960
You want him to start cracking into a song, don't you?

685
00:51:52.019 --> 00:51:58.619
It'd actually be probably more like a Bernard Crib than this right set, Fred, or something like that because he's he's getting a bit old.

686
00:51:58.679 --> 00:51:59.699
Do you notice he's a bit deaf?

687
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:03.480
He actually asks that at one point the doctor, he asks the doctor to speak up.

688
00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:07.980
And he does have a one for a Dalek.

689
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:13.860
He has a wonderfully pompous voice, you know, he doesn't have that pissed out.

690
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:16.320
Like this.

691
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.119
Very plumbing.

692
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:23.099
Much more like Nick Briggs does it later on, but he's much more aesthetic and much more human.

693
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:24.539
And he introduces himself.

694
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:29.460
He says, you know, there's no direct speech and so you are the doctor.

695
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:37.860
Do any of our little fanboy frontal lobes consider that it might be a descendant or clone of a Davros type of...

696
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:39.119
No, no, it's Yavelling.

697
00:52:39.179 --> 00:52:43.139
Oh, of course, it was because it's David Wisaker, which could be coming.

698
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:46.320
Share a bit of this because I didn't do that last time we were talking about...

699
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.300
I didn't know that much about it. was just trying to be funny.

700
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:55.920
No, it is the comics you are failing is the original person who created the Daleks in the sort of comic... tall and blue with Billy Hartnell wig.

701
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:57.239
What, silver wig?

702
00:52:57.300 --> 00:53:10.320
And once again, the altered visitors who have made videos of all the Dalek Chronicles have also made made a video featuring Yav Delling's creation of the Daleks..

703
00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:11.340
That's what we want to see.

704
00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:14.340
Something I find very interesting about this one.

705
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.099
Because that's I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of this story.

706
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:19.260
I think it's really let down by the padding in the middle.

707
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:25.500
Could have been a great four, possibly potter, but the ideas it introduces are wonderful.

708
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:31.739
And especially when Jamie says to the doctor, you know, people have died and you're treating this like a game when this is over, we're through.

709
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:37.559
And, of course, Jamie comes to realise that the doctor has tricked the Daleks and it's not like that at all.

710
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:51.239
But in a way, what Jamie has said is coming true because the doctor doesn't seem to care that the 3 humanised Daleks he's created are beings as well.

711
00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:54.300
He just sends them off to fight the guards.

712
00:53:54.420 --> 00:54:18.000
So it's kind of weird because as you say, Nathan, it's the 1st time that we don't have an identification character from the modern day, I mean, even with Vicki, as you said before, Richard, Vicki was very much a modern girl, we very briefly had a period between Vicki and Dodo where we didn't have that sort of present day character.

713
00:54:18.059 --> 00:54:21.300
But this is the 1st time where it's ongoing that way.

714
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:25.019
So, The season ends just like it began.

715
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:34.739
It began with a with a reboot of the doctor's character, and this is kind of another reiteration of you can't really trust him.

716
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:39.900
You know, he does, he does fight for the good of all, but that, that, that means some sacrifices.

717
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.840
Do you know, it's never occurred to me to wonder that.

718
00:54:42.900 --> 00:54:45.179
I don't think the narrative, do you know what I mean?

719
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:48.420
Do they foreground the idea that the doctor's sacrificing those dialects?

720
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:50.400
No one else seems to care.

721
00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:55.679
That's what I find it to do because the Daleks are so humanised and so childlike.

722
00:54:56.039 --> 00:55:00.000
And I think that deliberate decision had to come from somewhere.

723
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.159
Let me write it off pretty quickly, don't we?

724
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:05.039
Yeah, no, it never occurred to me, but it is a thing, I think.

725
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.440
And he does even encounter them, doesn't he?

726
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:11.519
Does he encounter them on Scaro and talk to them and they have a little chat.

727
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:14.880
And he kind of says to them, you know what you need to do.

728
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:19.079
And it's hard to tell them, there may be a bit of remorse in his voice.

729
00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:27.300
It's hard to tell without the visuals, but, you know, he still sends them in 3 daleks against the emperor and all its guards in a bloody firefight.

730
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:36.599
Do they do they infect people or convince them or something or do they hand out, I don't know, sandwiches laced with human factor or something, like, is it just them?

731
00:55:36.659 --> 00:55:40.199
Hello, my name is Elder Alpha, and I would like to talk to you about this amazing book.

732
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:41.340
Yeah, yes.

733
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:42.960
Do they do that?

734
00:55:43.019 --> 00:55:50.639
I think that's more of a Dalek is certainly fearful that that will happen. that they will introduce the notion of questioning.

735
00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:59.699
And I think at one point Daleks do go along to dispatch them and the human Daleks start questioning them and the other Daleks are like, I don't know what to do with this.

736
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:01.320
So I'll return to base for orders.

737
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:07.320
So it does, we see a small breakdown which leads to the line of the civil war later on.

738
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:13.019
I actually quite like that ambiguity and for me, it saves the story.

739
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:20.699
It's not just about the doctor directly destroying the Daleks, which is something that Hartnell really didn't do.

740
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.699
He would only attack the Daleks as a last resort.

741
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:31.619
You know, most of the time he was just trying to get away with, get away from them, but this new doctor's just like, no, I've had enough of wiping you out.

742
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:38.460
I mean, the 2 Dalek stories this season, reimagine the Daleks rather than just being an occasional threat.

743
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:42.300
This is the point at which they actually become iconic representations of evil.

744
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:51.420
And so it's not just their allegorical role in the power of the dialects, but also the fact that the doctor needs to face them in order to become the doctor, you know, the new doctor.

745
00:56:51.480 --> 00:57:00.059
And then here, you know, is this sort of giant empire and things and we bring it around full circle by going back to the original Dalek city.

746
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:02.940
And so they have become mythical.

747
00:57:02.940 --> 00:57:21.059
And, you know, that's the progression, you know, he, the doctor meets them in a tiny city, then he meets them in earth, then he gets chased through space, then they try and invade the galaxy, and then they just become these giant mythic forces, even though their plans themselves aren't anywhere near as as big a deal.

748
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.159
They are a big deal in this.

749
00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:25.679
And I wonder with something of a cinematic quality.

750
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:27.659
After the Dalek movies.

751
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:29.159
I think that's achieved by the sound.

752
00:57:29.219 --> 00:57:32.159
Did either of you notice how good the score is for this?

753
00:57:32.219 --> 00:57:37.380
It's Dudley Simpson, but it's as good as the last time we had.

754
00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:41.280
I really like to score to macro, even though it's crazy.

755
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.980
But this is...

756
00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:48.420
This is, um, this does really quite beautiful things with with the score.

757
00:57:48.480 --> 00:58:00.059
He uses hobo, flute, timpani, uh, marimba, and vibrophone, but then he froze in over that, a processed piano, and he does that before George Martin and the Beatles did it.

758
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:04.860
I wonder if John and George Martin were watching this one and going, ooh, I like the sound of that one.

759
00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:05.400
He was that one.

760
00:58:05.940 --> 00:58:07.320
Wow.

761
00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:08.340
I don't know.

762
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:09.420
That's actually Simpson.

763
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:16.320
But it's the score is gorgeous and it really works to compel the story along.

764
00:58:16.380 --> 00:58:22.019
There are moments, yeah, when it's dull and it's sort of, you kind of feel that it's plodding along a little bit too slowly.

765
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:30.420
But then it'll just throw us into some really different environments that are completely unexpected and support that and go along with it.

766
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.400
That's the beauty of Whittaker's writing.

767
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:34.019
He never lets you down in the moment.

768
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.980
There's always something that'll grab you and that's surprising and keep you involved.

769
00:58:38.099 --> 00:58:40.019
In the end with this story.

770
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:45.300
You know, power of daleks, as you said, Nathan, the doctor had to face the Daleks in order to become the doctor.

771
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:50.460
Now Doctor Who's getting rid of the Daleks because we have this new doctor, the show survived and we don't need them anymore.

772
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:52.980
And we're losing the rights to them.

773
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:56.460
They are kind of alive.

774
00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:57.420
Try and be poetic.

775
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:03.840
There is despite what John Peel says, there is a Dalek still moving at the end.

776
00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:08.820
It's a little bit like the shot of the little cybermat heading away at the end of 2 of the side.

777
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:10.860
Oh, but we're getting ahead of ourselves.

778
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:18.599
So starting with Jenny Laird award, for me, I've already mentioned it, but Jenny Laird award has to go for Nigel Robinson.

779
00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:25.619
I don't know whether he came up with slapping Polly into submission, but he certainly didn't try to sugarcoat it through his novelisation either.

780
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:28.920
So that's my choice for the Jenny Laird award for puzzling creative choice.

781
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:41.460
Oh, my journey Laird Award is equally obvious, I guess it's poor old John Peel, not the radio one DJ that we're talking about radio, but the writer. of the evil of the Daleks novelisation.

782
00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:42.780
Have either of you read it?

783
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:43.199
No.

784
00:59:43.260 --> 00:59:48.179
You know how you get all of that padding in the middle third?

785
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:50.820
This is kind of like a musical set piece in 3 parts, isn't it?

786
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:55.320
The middle fur is stretched out. episode four. into 2 episodes.

787
00:59:55.380 --> 00:59:59.519
And John Peel describes every single moment of it.

788
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:04.500
You know that Wisaker would have said, okay, that was just part of what was required for TV.

789
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:06.480
Let's shrink it down. and make something interesting.

790
01:00:06.539 --> 01:00:09.659
Isn't it sad that Whittaker didn't write the novelisation of this?

791
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:12.840
Yeah, so yeah, once again, John P. or Dong gets mine.

792
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:14.099
It gets my genie.

793
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:18.239
You know, mine actually goes to the entire production team.

794
01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:19.920
And I tell you why.

795
01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:27.300
And normally we think the Jenny Land award, it's, you know, it's for a puzzling creative choice, and not necessarily a bad creative choice.

796
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:31.440
Okay. just in case the name confused you in some way.

797
01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:33.000
Puzzled you.

798
01:00:33.059 --> 01:00:35.219
And so here it is.

799
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:41.880
Here I think it is the way that the change in cast is dealt with in series four, the change in the lead.

800
01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:46.619
And we've just very recently had this happened.

801
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:56.280
We've seen Matt Smith go and Peter Capaldi take over as a doctor and Matt Smith's departure was, you know, massively telegraphed, given huge amounts of publicity.

802
01:00:56.340 --> 01:00:57.780
We had TV shows about it.

803
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.780
Um, you know, there was, it was all over the news.

804
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:17.400
He was given a Christmas special, which was all about growing old and leaving that was thematically all about what his era had been about, that was a giant celebration of his era, that right from the beginning was set up as Matt Smith's last story.

805
01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:24.239
And Peter Capaldi's thing was set up as a dinosaur to parallel how old Peter Capaldi is.

806
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.059
There's the half-faced man. you know what I mean?

807
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:31.079
wondering whether he's still the same person after he's replaced all of his bits over the years.

808
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:38.579
You know, it's thematically all about that change and the change, we're reassured all the way through.

809
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:39.420
Do you know what I mean?

810
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:47.880
Like everything is, uh, is geared up these days to ensure that we don't go away because we don't like the new guy.

811
01:01:47.940 --> 01:02:01.920
There's an accidental kind of anticipation of Hartnell's departure by his collapse and disappearance in episode 3 of the 10th planet, but the 10th planet is in no way a regeneration story and the way that we think about it now.

812
01:02:01.980 --> 01:02:04.079
There's no celebration of the era.

813
01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:05.400
There's no mention of anyone.

814
01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:08.159
It's just heat for the last 5 minutes.

815
01:02:08.340 --> 01:02:10.800
And then there's no attempt.

816
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:18.239
And I think this is deliberate and I think it's risky and it's amazing that it comes off, but there's no attempt to reassure us that Trouton is...

817
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:20.039
Is the doctor.

818
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:35.340
And in fact, there's plenty of things that put us off. early on in power of the Daleks and it's such a strange choice of recasting in the 1st place and it's dealt with in such a surprising way to a modern Doctor Who audience that that's what gets my award.

819
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:37.199
I think that's pregnant, yeah.

820
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:41.940
And now we also have our picks or recommendations.

821
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:48.480
Someone we've spoken about a lot over the course of these episodes is Anika Wills.

822
01:02:48.840 --> 01:03:00.420
She, along with Fraser Hines, other 2 surviving members of the main cast from this point, Deborah Watling, of course, as well, but we'll talk more about Deborah Watling in next month's podcasts.

823
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:04.139
So I would like to recommend Anika Will's autobiographies.

824
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:06.119
They 1st came out a couple of years ago.

825
01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:13.199
They're currently out of print, but I believe, um, There is some talk about them going back into print with a new publisher.

826
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:16.920
They are Anika Will's naked and Anika Will's self-portrait.

827
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:22.380
Uh, naked covers uh, her time on Doctor Who and her early acting career.

828
01:03:22.500 --> 01:03:25.679
But there is so much more to her.

829
01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:32.219
And it's actually the parts that weren't about Doctor Who that I found the most interesting in reading these.

830
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:37.619
They are readily available on Amazon for good prices thrown out of print book.

831
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:50.340
But actually, as we release this episode, a new autobiography, a picture autobiography with many rare photos from Anika's collection, Anika Wills in focus, will have just been released.

832
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:56.460
It had a limited release 2 years ago, but this is a general release and will include the link for that on the website as well.

833
01:03:56.519 --> 01:04:04.920
I think we had better include the link because I just Google searched on Anika Wheels naked and that's not something that I don't remember.

834
01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:16.260
Richard, your recommendations very quickly. very swiftly and absolutely on the tail and... generous exposition.

835
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:23.579
I just thought if you want to get a grip on what was happening at the moment and we've talked about the Beatles and we've talked about the look of feel of the era.

836
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:26.219
I've plumped for the Joe Wharton diaries.

837
01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:38.940
If only because, very similarly, there is a reference to the very young Fraser Hines and how Mr. Orton wanted to cast him as the juvenile lead in entertaining Mr. Sloan, opposite Patricia Rutledge.

838
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:42.900
She is our very own Hyacinth Duques. think I would have been fantastic.

839
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:45.059
So it's a shame they didn't carry on with it.

840
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:50.639
He's producer, also called Wiles, said to him, you're going to have a very jolly time of it, aren't you?

841
01:04:50.699 --> 01:04:55.199
What a shame that didn't happen and he, well, he was murdered at the end of that year.

842
01:04:55.260 --> 01:04:56.340
But yeah, he was right.

843
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.659
He does mention having watched an episode of Underwater Menace, does he?

844
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:01.199
Yeah, he does.

845
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:02.579
And the faceless ones.

846
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:03.000
Oh, really?

847
01:05:03.059 --> 01:05:03.900
I've mentioned that too.

848
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:06.239
He says there was on Doctor Who tonight.

849
01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:06.960
Oh, sorry, Richard.

850
01:05:07.079 --> 01:05:08.340
Well, I have it right in front of me here.

851
01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:16.199
Look at the diaries and he says, well, you've got to just trudge through it because there's a hell of a lot of Kenneth Williams on every single page.

852
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:17.219
Why would you not pick it up?

853
01:05:17.340 --> 01:05:22.260
He says on Saturday I was watching an episode of Doctor Who and spotted a little boy in that called Fraser Hines.

854
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:27.000
So I rang John Wiles up and he said, my word, you are going to enjoy yourself, aren't you?

855
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:28.019
That's it.

856
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:31.320
That's all we get on Doctor Who in the actual, everything else has been inferred.

857
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:33.960
You can do that with this kind of man.

858
01:05:34.019 --> 01:05:41.699
It's just a really great taste of the period and there's so much you can look at, as we've said, not just TV wise, but writing wise on.

859
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:46.260
This is a fantastic year for England and for creative writing generally.

860
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:56.699
And this season, despite all its many, yeah, not so great success as manages to give us a taste, a smoggish beyond, if you like, of little bits of all of it. really.

861
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.820
We got a lot of different shows in Doctor Who this year.

862
01:05:59.820 --> 01:06:01.019
And Patrick is astounding.

863
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:03.300
I don't know that many people would have been able to pull it off.

864
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:04.860
No, that's very true.

865
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:32.159
In my pick of the week is, and it's kind of, you know, along the same lines that I've come up with many times before, but I had intended to spend this morning planning lessons for the upcoming week, uh, but I became alerted to the fact that uh, volume 5 of Philip Sanders, TARDIS, a Rudatorum, complete with an interview with Gareth Roberts, uh, in which he talks about the Graham Williams ears, uh, that's out on Amazon.

866
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:35.699
And so I won't be winging it tomorrow.

867
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:36.599
I know what I'm doing.

868
01:06:36.659 --> 01:06:40.380
But the rest of the week, goodness knows what's going to happen.

869
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:41.460
Looking forward to that one.

870
01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:47.099
So next month, our next episode will be released on November the 16th.

871
01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:53.400
And gentlemen, your story allocations for season five, Doctor Who?

872
01:06:53.460 --> 01:06:58.679
Nathan, you will be leading discussion on the recently recovered enemy of the world.

873
01:06:59.579 --> 01:07:02.099
And sadly, still missing theory from the deep.

874
01:07:02.219 --> 01:07:08.639
Richard, you will be covering the recently animated, Ice Warriors.

875
01:07:08.699 --> 01:07:10.440
Yes, animating a dead corpse.

876
01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:11.519
Standby for more.

877
01:07:11.579 --> 01:07:12.480
Oh, it's really good.

878
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:17.579
And the mostly recently recovered weather theatre.

879
01:07:17.699 --> 01:07:18.659
Oh no, this is a good one.

880
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:19.139
Okay.

881
01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:22.260
And I will be covering Tomb of the Sidemen.

882
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:25.559
The abominable snowmen and the wheel in space.

883
01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:34.679
And the reason I get the tomb of the side men is because you 2 both have a full or almost full story and otherwise I wouldn't have done and that's not bad.

884
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:36.420
Fair enough.

885
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:43.079
So, um, as Nathan has to rush off, we're just going to say a very quick goodbye and thank you for listening.

886
01:07:43.139 --> 01:07:43.440
Good night.

887
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:44.760
Good night.

888
01:07:44.820 --> 01:07:45.780
Goodbye and thank you.

889
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:55.920
You've been listening to quite your entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Shan.

890
01:07:55.980 --> 01:08:00.000
This episode, Airwick Gapport, was recorded on Sunday, 12th of October.

891
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:02.699
The next episode will be released on November 16th.

892
01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:08.760
You can find us online at 52 Entirety.com, 52 entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

893
01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:11.820
I am a student of human nature, especially Mikey.

894
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:12.300
Wow.

895
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:39.060
That helps.