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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:02:11

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back at last to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who actually did order the champagne, and we're drinking it now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Brendan.

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And I'm here too.

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So we've been off the air for nearly 10 years now, so we're all well rested and raring to commit some fairly major acts of domestic terrorism at tea time on BBC one.

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That's right.

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It's the 1st episode of the new series, Rose.

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What I did, did you?

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Oh, absolutely.

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I always rise to the occasion.

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Yeah, there's not a major department store in London still standing as we speak.

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I'm still in shock from this story, and I'm talking about seeing it in 2000.

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When did we say it's 6 five?

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Yeah, 2005, yeah. in Australia.

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Well, it's a very long time.

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Very long time ago.

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I was just sitting here relieved thinking, oh, at least this will be a really short run for FTE because it's only been going a short time.

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It hasn't, has it?

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No.

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We're actually up to where Liz, is Liz is almost about to take a stuff down and tell him where to put his aspidistra, isn't she?

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In real time, yeah, in real time.

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That's right.

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Yeah it's terrifying.

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Just as well that everyone agrees that the show is entirely lovely and that there's no controversy with any production staff for the entire 13 years run.

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So it'll be very smooth.

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It has been very, very peaceful, but that's mostly because all the people involved are still alive.

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And we can't bitch about them behind their backs.

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Can we talk about the new series?

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Can we?

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I think we can.

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Yeah.

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So I remember, and my Doctor of the Complete History is telling me that the new series was announced.

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I'm plumbing for 2003.

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Yeah, that would be my guess as well.

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Wednesday, September 24th.

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2003.

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2003.

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Where were you sitting, Todd?

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It wasn't comfortable.

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My memory cheats.

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I thought it was 2004, but yeah.

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I was sitting at work.

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I remember absolutely being naughty looking at the interweb in 2003, which you had to do through your workstation, so everyone knew what you were doing, but nobody actually was that skilled to be able to see what you were doing.

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And it came up.

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Eccles cakes was going to be the new doctor.

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And I thought, that'll be a really lovely one off special or maybe a cup of yes.

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Yeah, it's hard to believe that it was going to kind of last as long as it did. didn't quite believe it. was just a thing.

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I think I was in denial because it had been off the air and we had the audio series with Big Finish was sort of what I assumed that we would have forever.

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And, well, actually my 1st reaction was, well, that's it.

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We're stuffed because I was organising another Doctor Who convention.

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And so it was going to be the last one of the team of the conventions that I'd been running for like, you know, 7 or 8 years, and we were trying to get Peter Davidson, and we had India Fisher, who was the Doctor Who girl in terms of audios, and we were trying to promote her.

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And I think we had Louise Jemison, and then we pulled out, and then Louise pulled out.

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Barbara Joss pulled herself.

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And I think Fraser came on board so we had a black and white companion, an audio companion, and then this was announced and I went, well, that's it.

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We're just...

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Who's gonna care?

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Yeah, we're just stuffed.

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I didn't use that word.

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We're not going to get anybody because everybody would want somebody from the new series.

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No, no, I remember that.

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And I flashing forward because I may not be here to discuss this.

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I remember, do you remember, Todd, you tried to get Annette Badland?

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Well, she actually contacted us.

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Oh, right.

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And what she wanted as a guest star was more than what we'd ever paid for doctors.

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I'm not free.

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Which was, you know, which fair enough, you know, it's a new time, a new century, you know, and I fully expected that, but it sort of sort of made me go, okay, we're entering a brand new sort of era of things here, like in terms of conventions and stuff and it's not going to be nice little intimate things anymore.

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It's going to change forever.

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Try her now, see how much she is.

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I think she's got a soap at the moment.

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I think she's on our telly all the time, if unless I'm much mistaken.

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She's been in EastEnders.

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He's an EastEnders?

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Yes, I think so.

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No, she wasn't the first.

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And Bonnie.

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Bonnie.

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But recently.

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So that was mine, that was mine initial thing.

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Well that's it.

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Yeah, wow.

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Did we hear rumours about it beforehand?

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Um, there had been rumours since 2000, and it was always Russell's name attached to it.

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And Russell was talking to the BBC from 1999 after the success of Queer as folk.

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But the thing was, Russell thought the BBC weren't serious about it, which for some people led to a knock-on effect of, oh, I thought Russell T. Davies really wanted to do Doctor Who, but he doesn't seem to.

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He's not returning calls to set the other, there was also the problem that the rights still rested with BBC films.

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After the telly movie.

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And so there was a complicated right situation there.

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Mark Gators and Gareth Roberts had pitched a 21 half hour episode series made up of seven, three-part stories with their dream casting was Derek Jacobeers, the doctor, that was written about in Dwim a couple of years ago.

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And the one thing I really remember was sort of 2 or 3 stories in the episode Cliffhanger would be UFO lands, a Dalek slides out, companion turns around.

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What is it, doctor?

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And the doctor says, I've no idea.

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Yeah.

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But that was their idea of the time war.

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He'd forgotten it.

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Yeah, instead they were.

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That would have been a zinger, wouldn't it?

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They were constantly after Russell, but Jane Tranter, who became a champion of the series, when she finally cornered Russell and got him to agree to a meeting, suddenly went off on maternity leave.

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So this is in 2002.

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So it doesn't come up until 2003.

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In terms of what I remember from the time, I remember the announcement because I was so excited for a little thing, which was going to be the continuation of Doctor Who called Scream of the Sharka.

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So Scream of the Shalaka was announced around, I think, June or July, and then the very next month, it gets gazumped by Doctor Who is coming back to television.

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But screen... isn't that a cartoon thing?

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Yeah, yeah, we've done...

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Richard D. Grant.

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Richard D. Grant, in Stephen Moth, Inverness Cape.

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Yes.

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And massive blue mobile phone. which he does everything.

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And a fantastic companion.

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Yeah, Oscar winner, Sophie Okanido.

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Who is Liz 10, isn't she?

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Exactly.

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The Beast Below, and of course, Derek Jacobi playing the master, which is something I'm surprised they never thought to do again.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It really is very good except for the fact that it's not.

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Yeah, and except for except for the fact that Richard E. Grant has no idea what Doctor Who is.

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He saw a Dalek once during a charity special.

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But that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to play a poor doctor, and this is probably where we lead into Eccles.

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Not being a non-wi can actually help.

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An actor should come to a part.

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Freshly.

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Yes.

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Um, I saw the news on uh, Doctor Who news.com, as is now, Outpost Gallifray back then, and they had to shut down the forum for a day, just because people got so, yeah, so excited and so angry.

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Like it must be 25 minute episodes.

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No, it must not be 25 minute episodes and J.

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Sean Lyon stepping in and saying, guys, we literally know nothing.

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Because at this point, the BBC didn't even know how many episodes they were going to make.

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Initially they offered Russell 6.

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Russell counted with eight.

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Julie Gardner is then the one who came in and said, actually, here's the sums for 13.

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Bless Julie.

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Oh my goodness.

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Going to be the patron saint of the podcast over the next 4 years, I think.

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Can I can I give my stupid fanboy reaction, though, my stupid, angry fanboy reaction or something?

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So a year after the initial announcement on October 18 in 2004?

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They released the logo.

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Yeah.

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My cat was doing it for several years beforehand on the side.

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Friend of the podcast.

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I mean that in a nice publishable way.

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Yes.

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Friend of the podcast, Blaine Cochlan of JCBC films, actually sent me a picture of it because he was living back in the UK by that point.

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He's like, isn't this amazing?

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And I don't know what it was.

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It was a couple of days after my birthday and I remember I was at work and I was still working at KFC, so maybe I was annoyed about that, but I hated it.

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I said it looked amateurish and cheap.

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I hated the font.

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I hated the background.

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I said it was a ripoff and fast.scape.

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Yes, the typeface.

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Sorry, darling.

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No, I just do that to him.

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By the time it rocked around, I quite liked it, but I was just really, really abstreperous on that day and I just remember that.

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No one liked it.

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Except for me.

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Because it was new and shiny.

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We thought it was unworthy of the diamond logo, frankly. was not impressed.

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You didn't like it?

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No.

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No.

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I can't say anything more that. didn't like it.

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In retrospect, I think it is amazingly good. sensational in red perspective.

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And it captures that London thing, which we're going to come back to over and over again during Russell's era because Dr. just like a taxi sign.

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Exactly.

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It does actually.

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And the way that he's dressed.

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No, it really does.

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He is a delivery man.

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He's delivering us hope.

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Oh, that's so beautiful.

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That's awful.

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And chips.

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So I worried that if it was 45 minute episodes that the doctor would be presented with things that were quite easy to solve, you know what I mean?

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And over the years the doctors got better at solving things, you know, normally it used to take him 6 episodes and, you know, per twe sort of slowed down at the beginning, it would take him 7 episodes to solve something.

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And then eventually Sylvester Coy came along and he would just solve something in 3 episodes.

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He was a genius.

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But now we'd have a doctor who would solve things in 45 minutes.

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But I think in retrospect, it's the only possible choice that they could have made.

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You can't do that kind of thing where most people are tuning in on a Saturday night to watch a quarter of a story.

181
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But that's the point.

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This would not have been this way if it wasn't Russell.

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This is more a Russell T. Davies piece of writing than it is a Doctor Who piece of writing.

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It is absolutely his way of approaching the world in his writing.

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Just happens to be that he's entirely sued, in who he is.

186
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Well, he's not pitching it to fans.

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He's not, and in order to make a show a success, you should not be pitching to a small group of people, you are writing for yourself and you're writing for general public and television's moved on by 2004.

188
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And if we'd had 25 minute episodes, we would have had one series and that's that's it.

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And I remember at the time going, oh, 45 minute episodes, I'm not going to get enough character, sort of development, and, and, you know, I do think there are some pacing issues at various times, but it's the right decision and it's television now.

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Yeah.

191
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And as for character development, I mean, you get more character stuff in a 45 minute Doctor Who episode these days than you did in sort of entire early seasons, to be honest.

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Or there's a different approach to character development where it grows out of the actors' performances and very subtle things in the old series, but the new series is much more explicit and much more deliberate about it, I think.

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I guess what I mean by character development is that the supporting characters or the guest stars, you real, like, I mean, you know who Harrison Chase and Scorbia, you get to know the villains or have a real understanding.

194
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Well, they'd be just throw away every week and you don't really connect.

195
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Yeah, we don't get Greg and Petra back.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Who we get to know over the course of nearly 2 months.

198
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So how was that going to pan out, you know?

199
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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One person who was a big proponent of the 45 minute structure, and I can't remember when she said it, so I might be getting ahead of myself, take a drink, dear listener.

201
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Um, But Janet Fielding.

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Janet Fielding said the 45 minute structure was great because she said, you know, back when we were doing it in 25, It takes about 10 minutes for the audience to settle into the program.

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And so then you've only got 15 minutes of plot and exploration, whereas with 45 minutes, 10 minutes to settle into the program, and then you've got 35 minutes to develop story in the characters.

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So she's like, even though the whole story takes less time.

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There's more time of the audience actually being engaged with the idea after the setup.

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And, you know, then she complained about Billy Piper's hair for 10 minutes, but...

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What was she sticking her salary heart in for?

208
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Nothing to do with it.

209
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I really do think if you look at so many classic Doctor Who stories now, like if you sat down and you actually scripted them as a modern day television event, like a 6 episode story and look at the per tweeze, it would be completely differently structured and you'd write it, and I reckon that, you know, a 6 episode story would be maybe, you know, 50 to 60 minutes, you would actually get it down to that long.

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It's just a different television's changed and the way stories are changed and the way television is produced and shot and audiences, attention spans, may I say it, or the way we look at things now is all different.

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Yeah.

212
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I mean, Stephen Moffatt makes the point, I think, correctly that old Doctor Who does consist of lots of people sort of standing urgently in corridors for long periods of time or...

213
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My dinner with Andre action figure set is testing it on my dusted bookshelves to just how gripping this concept could be.

214
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Bugger off.

215
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That is the history of small rep theatre.

216
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People standing about saying horrible things have just happened over there behind the Arras.

217
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Yeah, but now we can afford to kind of be a visual spectacle in a way that Doctor Who did aim for and certainly hit, you know.

218
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Yeah, and Marco Polo.

219
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I'm so grateful we got in touch with that Queensland fan and got to catch up with that at Christmas.

220
00:14:57.299 --> 00:14:58.500
Didn't that blow you size?

221
00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:58.799
sideways?

222
00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:00.179
Yeah, no, I really enjoyed that.

223
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.019
Yeah, I just couldn't believe the scene with Meca Godzilla, you know?

224
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.240
It totally wasn't in the script.

225
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.080
Yeah, yeah. what happened to the audio recording of that sequence either.

226
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.639
So did we get casting straight away when they announced it?

227
00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:21.419
I think Eccles was right up at the front and that's what got the momentum, wasn't it?

228
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.419
Because Jane Tranter didn't push the button till they got Eccles.

229
00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:27.840
Yeah, and Eccles himself actually contacted Russell.

230
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:40.379
So the, yeah, the announcement came and I think casting came about a month later, but Eccleston contacted Russell because they worked together before on the 2nd coming. which is a drama where Christopher Eccleston plays Jesus.

231
00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:47.220
We'll actually talk about that in our Aliens of London episode because it shares a lot of elements with the 2nd coming, in fact.

232
00:15:47.340 --> 00:16:03.960
But the thing is, what Christopher Eccleston says is he had seen a little bit of Doctor Who in the 70s growing up, he would later say in interviews, you know, you either watched Doctor Who or you went and played sport, and I was usually playing sport, but I did see some of it.

233
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:06.480
But what he found was, everyone's so posh.

234
00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:07.740
There's no one like me on this show.

235
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.639
But then he thought, this guy's always moving.

236
00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:12.480
He's never at home.

237
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:20.159
And he sent an email to Russell saying that because immediately the character fired his imagination, like how sad is his character, how lonely is this character?

238
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:21.360
What's the dramatic potential?

239
00:16:21.419 --> 00:16:25.980
And then as a PS he put, by the way, Russell, I might be interested in this role.

240
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:26.700
Wow.

241
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:34.740
Only to find that Russell had already shortlisted him and completely unknown to him, he had been shortlisted for the telemovie.

242
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:36.000
Oh, okay.

243
00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.879
He was never contacted, but he had been short-lived.

244
00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:41.159
Also, was Peter Capaldi.

245
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:43.919
John Sessions.

246
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:45.299
I think that was short.

247
00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:45.539
Yes.

248
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.000
Rick Mile, was it?

249
00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:48.539
Rick Mile?

250
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:56.639
So Hugh Grant was the 1st offer for the role because the BBC could pretty much only put half the money in.

251
00:16:56.700 --> 00:17:08.819
So they needed international pre-sales and possibly co-production money from elsewhere, which they eventually got from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation were a full co-producer for the 1st series.

252
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.940
Uh, and possibly the 2nd but not beyond that.

253
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.559
But Hugh Grant turned it down.

254
00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:18.599
He didn't want to be tied to a series and he has said in recent years that he massively regrets it and it would have been fantastic.

255
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:20.039
Have you seen that meme?

256
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:22.859
What would it have been like had Hugh Grant taken on this role?

257
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.019
Not planets have a Sussex.

258
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.539
Have you seen those little gifts?

259
00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:29.099
They're really telling.

260
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:32.339
It's the 2nd season of Cat Weasel without the jokes.

261
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.599
You humans, all you do is sit at Herman, drink beluga caviare.

262
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.200
The accent meaning of work.

263
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.539
I'm doing it now.

264
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:49.440
I don't know whether the series Bible, which has been published, you know, Russell's original pitch document for the 1st series.

265
00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:50.940
Rose meets the doctor.

266
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.799
Well, with Mugsy and Judy.

267
00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:53.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

268
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.799
Lola, Lola, and...

269
00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:57.000
Yeah it's so TV comic.

270
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:59.640
I was hoping for that as a reboot, frankly.

271
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:06.180
But he does say that he doesn't want the doctor to be the neutered public schoolboy that he so often was in the past.

272
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.880
I've never known public schoolboys to be neuted anymore.

273
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:12.539
No, but I think that that's Hugh Grant's family motto, I think.

274
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.119
New to public school.

275
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

276
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:30.180
So, but perhaps perhaps they'd already decided to go into a sort of more working class direction with Eccleston in a way that they kind of sort of kind of not really touch on with McCoy, who at least doesn't have an RP accent.

277
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.660
But he just has a whole lot of rollickings, doesn't he?

278
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:39.660
Yeah, but I mean, even the fact that Northern accent needs to be lampshaded in this episode with lots of planets having north.

279
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.099
How do we feel about that?

280
00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:43.799
I thought it was brilliant?

281
00:18:43.859 --> 00:18:49.259
Because it's taking the fact that people are going to say, oh, he doesn't sound like a proper Doctor Who.

282
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:54.900
And it's providing an explanation while kind of saying the explanation doesn't matter.

283
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.279
Yeah, we don't care.

284
00:18:56.339 --> 00:19:04.980
You know, for the people who need to understand why there's a certain voice and we'll get a scene like this cut from the Christmas invasion.

285
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:14.400
They need some kind of explanation for the people who are living in the North and, you know, constantly been told, oh, if you want to be actors, you have to learn to speak RP.

286
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:23.039
And Colin said at the casting of Christopher Eccleston, I hope he gets to keep the accent because I wasn't allowed because he's he's from Manchester.

287
00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.359
Now, he didn't mean in Doctor Who.

288
00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:31.200
He meant generally when he came down in the 70s and became an actor, he was told, you have to get rid of the Mancunian accent.

289
00:19:31.259 --> 00:19:34.440
Tom had to get rid of the Liverpool accent.

290
00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:36.119
He did that at a very early age.

291
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:36.900
So, yeah.

292
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.700
And Liz to a certain extent as well.

293
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:40.619
Although with Lisladen, it does creep through sometimes.

294
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.240
She was actually a bit naughty.

295
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:47.579
Barry Letts didn't want her to murder that cup of tea because it was cruel and it would encourage aberrant behaviour.

296
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:49.200
But no, she was throwing things like gear off.

297
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:55.799
And they almost cut them because Terence Styx doesn't like colonialism, except when it's done by the British Empire.

298
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:59.940
See, I knew nothing about Christopher Eccleston. didn't even know who he was.

299
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.380
You seen him in films, though.

300
00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:02.579
No, well, no.

301
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.039
I knew there, is he in 28 days?

302
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.980
That's the only thing I'd ever seen him in.

303
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:09.779
And like I couldn't even remember him from that.

304
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.220
So for me, I'm the same.

305
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:16.079
So for me, it was just a new person coming in playing the doctor, which I kind of liked that I didn't know anything about him.

306
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.539
So I was completely fine with whatever they went with.

307
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.960
Doctor Who was coming back for a year or 2 or whatever.

308
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:25.500
On the topic of conventions, which you mentioned earlier, Todd.

309
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.859
I was running the day events at the time, the mini conventions.

310
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.160
And so we decided it was a wonderful idea.

311
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:35.759
If we had a day looking at the work of Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper.

312
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:37.799
Yeah.

313
00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:39.299
How'd that go?

314
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:46.140
So Eccleston had done an episode of the League of Gentlemen, which we couldn't show in mixed company because it's the League of Gentlemen.

315
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.599
So we showed the 2nd coming.

316
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:50.339
Oh, that's a good choice.

317
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:58.799
But in terms of Billy, Billy was very new to acting at this point, she'd done the Canterbury Tales, but hadn't been released in Australia yet, because it was on the strength of the Canterbury Tale, she gets cast here.

318
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:06.240
So we played a Victoria Wood, as seen on TV special, where Billy's in it for 30 seconds.

319
00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:08.579
You could have played one of her music videos.

320
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.420
Actually, I think we did play because we want to in Honey to the Bee and then I was told to stop.

321
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:14.460
And not day day and night.

322
00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:16.259
The day.

323
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.099
That's all I can sing.

324
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:19.200
I still got those CDs.

325
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:21.119
I actually like that song.

326
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:21.839
I love her music.

327
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.059
Yes, dear listeners, I have CDs.

328
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.279
They are physical objects.

329
00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:27.900
No I've never heard of them.

330
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.579
So what do we think of Billy?

331
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:34.380
I do remember at the time there was this sort of negative fan reaction because she...

332
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.019
I'm sorry, I mean, before the viewing. yeah.

333
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:42.900
Oh, well, it was spectacularly implosive. wasn't it much like everything that was coming out?

334
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:57.660
I think the interesting thing about this period of Doctor Who is that it is entirely interweb with fandom and that the voice of the fan is absolutely entrenched in and interwoven with what we're seeing on screen and wasn't like that before.

335
00:21:57.779 --> 00:21:59.220
We were just saying that nothing was new.

336
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.220
The casting of regional...

337
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:04.079
Well, we've seen all this in 87.

338
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:08.039
I think, though, that this season is unique.

339
00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:14.339
This series is unique because it's more or less in the can before there's any fan reaction.

340
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:21.359
And it is very, very conscious of not putting off new viewers.

341
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:23.880
You know, it doesn't want to be too science fiction-y.

342
00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:24.900
And it really...

343
00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:25.680
Well, it wasn't.

344
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:26.519
Until...

345
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.279
Well, not even in the castle.

346
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:30.359
Do you know what I mean?

347
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:31.680
Yeah, I sort of pretend that didn't happen.

348
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:33.359
I agree with you, Nathan.

349
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:43.259
And that's why Christopher Eckeston's interpretation, the doctor, is unique because it's the only one in the history of the show, where his entire performance.

350
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.279
There is no feedback from the public.

351
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:55.140
Oh, he, you know, even William Hart, or initially, yes, he's doing what he's doing, but then, you know, he'd be, he'd have to be talking to his grandchildren getting, you know, and other people saying things, you know, whereas here it's unique.

352
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.539
Christopher has to make decisions based on what he's seeing in daily rushes and that sort of thing, on the performance.

353
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:06.779
And I think you can see that as he goes through in terms of the comic perhaps aspects of it or how intense he is.

354
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.279
And it's completely unique.

355
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:16.079
Every other doctor that comes after him measures themselves against him and they do more than one season, so they get to have time to reflect and change things.

356
00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:19.380
I think Capaldi's a great example of that, actually.

357
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.119
Yes, perhaps anyone else.

358
00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:30.839
In terms of Billy, the papers were talking about it being Billy Piper before Russell T. Davis and Julie Gardner spoke to Billy Piper.

359
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:53.759
Because she was a very successful pop star, who never had a big scandal the way a lot of successful pop stars do at the time she had a successful marriage to a very successful person, now that broke down over the course of this filming, partially due to them being separated and apart from each other.

360
00:23:53.819 --> 00:24:00.779
But, you know, also that commented in later years that it was something with a sort of finite lifespan on it.

361
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.700
And so this successful pop star then moves into acting.

362
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:08.339
And she's got all the tabloids behind her.

363
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:16.079
And I just think that's interesting that they were saying that she was the new Doctor Who companion before the production team had even spoken to her.

364
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:20.160
And also auditioned, of course, as we know, now was Georgia Moffat.

365
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:23.099
The daughter of Peter Davidson.

366
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.420
And she was apparently very successful.

367
00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:27.299
And I...

368
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:29.640
Stephen Woffett, the daughter of Peter Davidson and Stephen.

369
00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:32.940
That's right I also recall...

370
00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:33.960
She was the Pierce Brosnan.

371
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:39.720
I also recall, and I don't know if she was joking or not, but India Fisher said she put her name in.

372
00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:41.039
I don't know if she got an audition.

373
00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:42.359
I can't remember.

374
00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:48.119
Main thing I remember about India Fisher is she wanted us to find a surfer husband and she kept screaming at us.

375
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:49.019
It's all very well.

376
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:54.180
You gaze liking me, but for God's sake, I'm in Sydney and I need a surfer husband.

377
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.160
I need service.

378
00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:58.019
Kenneth Williams used to say.

379
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.259
I was really excited by Billy Piper's casting.

380
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:01.799
Me too.

381
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:06.359
Like, there were aspects of fandom that were not. and very vocal about it.

382
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:13.019
How can a pop star possibly do this, but I kind of looked at it like, you know, if you're doing pop videos, you are acting like in those.

383
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:20.160
And, you know, and I just kind of put it down to things like, you know, when you see comics, comedians often make really good dramatic actors.

384
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:27.480
And I just kind of went, you know, there's nothing to say that she's not going to, you know, excel and of course, she's fantastic.

385
00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:28.980
She knocks it out of the park.

386
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:31.799
How did we, how did, how did Russell Knight?

387
00:25:31.859 --> 00:25:32.339
That was the thing.

388
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:45.599
But wasn't she repositioning herself as an actor because after her pop career had sort of fizzled, then didn't she go away and do courses and stuff and and dust was coming back reinventing her career as an actress?

389
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:46.680
Yes, absolutely.

390
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:51.119
And what's interesting is around the same time, Britney Spears attempted to do the same thing.

391
00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:52.259
How did that go?

392
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.559
Well, she's got residency at Vegas.

393
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:57.960
So, you know, she went back to the singing and that was fine.

394
00:25:58.019 --> 00:26:03.599
But Billy was very savvy in that the roles she pursued.

395
00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:07.079
Now, okay, this is a leading role, but the series is not called Rose.

396
00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:08.400
The series is called Doctor Who.

397
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:13.019
Now, arguably with the new series, they do make it into co-leads.

398
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:24.240
But unlike a lot of American singers who try and get into acting and they're like, I'm going to headline my own movie straight off the bat, Billy Piper was prepared for, no, I'll take smaller roles and I'll take supporting roles.

399
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:26.099
I'll do the Canterbury Tales.

400
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.259
Oh my god, I've got Doctor Who.

401
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:33.839
Billy Piper didn't seem to push herself out there as, no, no, no, I must be front and centre.

402
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:36.960
So I think what you're saying, Todd is right.

403
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:43.019
She learned her craft and that's possibly why she was more successful than other singers turned actors.

404
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:43.799
Yeah.

405
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:45.960
And she's British.

406
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:50.700
It's a different ethos because the acting industry is different there.

407
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:01.619
So, we've talked about the lead up to the show, but can we talk about the show itself?

408
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.420
We better start talking about that.

409
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:03.779
Yeah.

410
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:10.200
So I think the 1st most striking thing about it is how much it borrows per to his iconography.

411
00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:19.200
So the opening titles are a version of Pertu, his original opening titles with a red sort of swirly thing and the use of Futura, the font.

412
00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:20.400
Yeah.

413
00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:25.799
And what he does, what Russell does, is creates a large regular cast.

414
00:27:25.859 --> 00:27:34.140
And that's always a problem with Doctor Who, particularly, I think, in a modern TV environment that you essentially have 2 leads and everyone else is new every week.

415
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.819
You just have a guest cast.

416
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:37.619
And I think that's hard to do.

417
00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:41.039
And I don't think it happens all that much in TV.

418
00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:46.619
And so Russell creates a sort of extended cast of characters.

419
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:48.119
So can we talk about them?

420
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:50.099
Jackie and Mickey.

421
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.640
Yeah.

422
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.319
So Jackie.

423
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:53.880
Todd.

424
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:58.559
Camille Cudry is just the B's knee.

425
00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:04.019
I will have to say that she is my favourite character in those 1st 2 years of the show.

426
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:11.819
Yeah, I just adore her and the way she pictures all the jokes throughout the episode, but she cares for her daughter.

427
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:14.519
I believe they've, I haven't read it yet.

428
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:21.240
The new novelisation makes Jackie a bit more bit cheaper, perhaps, and not as good relationship with Rose.

429
00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:21.779
I don't know.

430
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.559
But I love the fact that in this, she's not unlikeable.

431
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:28.920
And she's so warm and but she's so real.

432
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.839
She's just, I just love her.

433
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.039
I love. can't say, you know.

434
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:36.539
She strikes me as someone who would never have been in Doctor Who before, like someone's mom.

435
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:37.319
Do you know what I mean?

436
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:40.380
Doctor Who's previous attempts to do this, give us Meg Sealia, I think.

437
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.700
You know?

438
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:42.480
so true.

439
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:42.960
Yeah.

440
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:45.420
So, you know, like a sort of normal working class person.

441
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:50.279
Make it all sick. generally where we've gone with mother characters.

442
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:58.619
And I guess the setting as well is where we last left off proper Doctor Who was survival, where we're in a council estate in London.

443
00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:07.259
And so we're in contemporary London and we have this character who could easily have been sort of from EastEnders or something with great comic timing.

444
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.019
And she's also someone who would never have watched Doctor Who in a 1000000 years.

445
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:21.359
And so when she talks about what's going on, she talks like one of the not we, she talks like a person at home who's just watching this with all her talk of planet Earth and spacemen and stuff like that.

446
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:23.039
She doesn't use the vocabulary.

447
00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:26.400
She does represent everybody else's mum, doesn't she, though?

448
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.059
Yeah, it's mum.

449
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:31.980
This is really made about Russell as a young person as a lady person.

450
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:36.960
Yeah, well, Russell and Rose share the same 1st name just about. don't they?

451
00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:38.519
I think that's deliberate.

452
00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:40.980
And he'd used the name tile before.

453
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.880
Vince, who was basically wrestling, queer as folk, his last name's Tyler.

454
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:47.819
There are Tyler characters in Damaged Goods.

455
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:48.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

456
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:50.519
Bob and Rose.

457
00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:51.240
Yeah.

458
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:57.720
I think the only show he made that didn't have a Tyler was mine or mine, which had a character called.

459
00:29:57.779 --> 00:29:58.859
Oh, okay.

460
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:14.400
Well, you see, like Rose is very definitely Russell, in the very 1st kind of Doctor Who annual or whatever the equivalent to that was that year, Rose's birthday is given as 27th of April, which is the same day as Russell's, and mine, as it happens.

461
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:17.220
If you want to take a look at my Amazon wish list.

462
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.920
So she's very definitely him in the show, I think.

463
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:29.339
And I think that when he was a kid and he was watching Doctor Who, he always imagined he was Joe or he was Sarah.

464
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:30.720
No, exactly.

465
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:41.700
People often ask me why I cosplay as Doctor Who girls sometimes to the point that one of the actresses I cosplayed at thought I was taking the Mick out of her.

466
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:43.559
But it's more that.

467
00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:44.160
Yeah.

468
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:44.880
Who?

469
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:46.859
Oh, no, I won't say.

470
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.019
I won't say because and yeah, it's a short list.

471
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:50.220
I've only done like 3 or four.

472
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.380
Eileen Wayne.

473
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:54.960
I was just going to say exactly.

474
00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:59.220
The greatest piece of miscasting is not bringing Eileen way back.

475
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.579
I'm thinking that I'll get Brendan to tell me off mic and then I'll sneak into the show.

476
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.599
I'll tell you now.

477
00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:04.740
It was Daphne Ashbrook.

478
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.559
And you know, I think we've said that on the podcast before.

479
00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:09.599
I think it's because of a different mentality.

480
00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:11.220
And you were doing it in a wheelchair.

481
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:12.660
I mean, it was really offensive.

482
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.640
So many levels. calling everyone Julian.

483
00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:23.279
As a kid, I realise often you're not looking to be the doctor.

484
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:29.519
You don't want to be the doctor because you can't imagine being the doctor because the doctor's this alien, but you can imagine being the human.

485
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:33.839
Nice people want to be the companions and the rest of us want to be the doctors.

486
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:35.039
I always did doctor.

487
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:36.539
Companion who?

488
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:37.259
No idea.

489
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.640
No, I want to be I want always wanted to be a companion, but I had the ability to regenerate.

490
00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:44.099
Oh, so you're river song.

491
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.720
Well we're getting ahead of ourselves.

492
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:47.039
You're Romana.

493
00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:48.059
You're Romana, darling.

494
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.500
Romana, darling.

495
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.519
Ramana, darling.

496
00:31:50.579 --> 00:31:53.339
I suppose it's a bit like the Rick and Morty fans who think they're Rick.

497
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:53.940
Yeah.

498
00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:54.839
Yeah, they're not.

499
00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:56.279
They're Jerry.

500
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:57.059
They're Jerry.

501
00:31:57.660 --> 00:32:00.599
Camille gives the show what it needs.

502
00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:07.380
And it's something we talked about with the early Tom Baker era because you've just had the unit era.

503
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:13.380
So every time you go back to Earth, you don't have to introduce a whole bunch of new characters.

504
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.140
You introduce half a new cast because you've got the unit people.

505
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.039
Whereas I think we particularly talked about it in hand of fear.

506
00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:26.279
The doctor and Sarah come back to earth and it doesn't feel real because we've got nothing to latch onto.

507
00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:28.140
Well, it is the hand of fear though.

508
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.599
It is also there, Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

509
00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:32.160
Why didn't they bring them back for the new series?

510
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:33.599
They were both alive when it started.

511
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:35.400
Any thoughts on that, Todd?

512
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:37.259
No comment.

513
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:50.819
But yeah, having Jackie and Mickey, it gives us that grounding and it gives us that basis and and it gives us the alternative rose could be living.

514
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:59.400
Because when we introduce companions in the old series, Very often, the alternative to being with the doctor is being killed.

515
00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:01.740
You know, the doctor saves something.

516
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.740
Whereas Rose's alternative here isn't dying.

517
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.920
It's just living a boring mundane life.

518
00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:11.339
And it raises the question, is that better?

519
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:13.920
Is that worse than the threat of death?

520
00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:17.880
I think, too, that there is a sense here.

521
00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:24.240
And the idea that the companion's an audience surrogate or an audience identification figure isn't necessarily right.

522
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:31.319
But here it's the story where the doctor could land and take any one of the members of the audience off with him.

523
00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:33.000
You know, she's from our world.

524
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.559
She lives a fairly ordering woman.

525
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:35.400
Could have been Camille.

526
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:37.380
Liner notes, pert we, and a penny.

527
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:38.519
Really?

528
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.160
If you want old home values.

529
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:44.579
And while we're on the regular cast, what about Mickey?

530
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.539
Mugsy.

531
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:47.940
Well, okay.

532
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.880
So I really loathed him in this episode when I 1st saw it.

533
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:55.619
I loathed his acting.

534
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:57.660
Richard's nodding his head, okay?

535
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:06.480
And I hated the performance, the character was just set up to be this horrible cypher that you just...

536
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:08.039
You just thought he was a buffoon.

537
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:16.440
And the fact that Rose couldn't even tell the difference between a plastic replica and the real thing in the car, just sort of, I think, undermined the character.

538
00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:17.340
That's my opinion.

539
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.500
No, I think there's a lot to be said for that.

540
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.920
And I think it's, for me, it's, I feel it's a misstep or mistake.

541
00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:26.400
Having watched this only a few days ago.

542
00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:32.699
You know, there's there's a bit of the Mickey that we know at the beginning, but you don't know him at the beginning.

543
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:34.440
Like there's just a little bit there.

544
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:38.760
You don't get enough of a sense of him before they turn him into...

545
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.760
Just the way he goes, don't go rose the way he acts, that sort of thing.

546
00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:44.760
It still annoys me.

547
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:55.019
But what I gathered out of this particular doing. was actually how fantastic he is as evil Mickey, knowing the Mickey that he becomes.

548
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:59.639
And that performance with all the plastic and everything right, he is absolutely nailing it at that point.

549
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:01.380
Simon Cowell, really.

550
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:04.320
But I really, really enjoyed that this time.

551
00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:10.199
But I do think there are problems with his character through this, that just set him up for failure and not really liking it.

552
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:13.019
He's so emasculated, which I think is the unfair thing.

553
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.199
Peter, well, Davidson would say, what's then for the boys?

554
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:32.219
Yeah, and just, you know, the fact that he is so, I don't know, weak and sort of like scared and it's like really like, and so they have to do a lot of, I don't know, rewriting or backpedalling or in future episodes to try and get that character back.

555
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.260
And for me, it takes quite quite a few episodes.

556
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:40.679
Even later in the season when he's talking about that Delaney girl, like he's still like a whingeing whining thing at points.

557
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:42.179
It's like, come on, come on.

558
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.900
I want more because he is a good actor and by the end, you know.

559
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.840
You're wanting him to be there, you know?

560
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:54.719
I have to say that I think there probably is a deliberate arc in this 1st recording block because...

561
00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:55.139
Is it, though?

562
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.440
Because Todd, weren't you saying that he wasn't going to be in subsequent episodes?

563
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:01.260
Always going to be in the 1st three, apparently.

564
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:02.219
First three.

565
00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:03.420
The 1st 3 recorded.

566
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.840
So this aliens of London and World War three. that right, Brendan?

567
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.739
That's correct.

568
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:19.079
So the last we were officially going to see of him was when the doctor and Rose go off at the end of World War 3 and he's left sitting on the bins, looking up at the sky, waiting for her to come.

569
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:19.860
It's all about the bin.

570
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:21.840
But he's better in those episodes.

571
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:26.280
Oh, yes, they do stuff with his character where you kind of think, okay, you know, this is better.

572
00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:28.920
Don't want to jump ahead because you'll discuss that later on.

573
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.780
But maybe it's the director.

574
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:36.539
I think it's partly the director and I think there's a reason Keith Bowick doesn't come back after these episodes.

575
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:49.320
He does he does direct very broadly, and, you know, we do have that ridiculous Mickey Auton makeup job that Rose seems not to notice, you know, and...

576
00:36:49.320 --> 00:37:01.500
Possibly not, but it's difficult to find stuff up about this time because it's only now 13 years later that the production team and actors are talking about the difficulties they faced on the job because it was so tumultuous.

577
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:06.900
In terms of Noll, his star was on the rise because he was in RV to St.

578
00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:20.039
Pet, and his scenes for Rose were mostly recorded in 5 days, they had to fly him back from Thailand, where our Vita's own pet was being shot, shoot for 5 days, and then the Monday after that.

579
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:29.219
So he shot Monday to Friday, the Monday after that, he actually had the funeral of Pat Roach, who was an actor in Alvita's own pet, who had passed away suddenly during the shoot.

580
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:39.780
So I don't know if that feeds into Noll's performance at all, because he is so much better in the next time he appears, and then he keeps getting better throughout.

581
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:45.179
But I think it's also the fact that no one really knew what they were doing.

582
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:49.019
There's a great interview with Phil Collinson, who explains that 2 weeks into the shoot.

583
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:49.980
There were 3 weeks behind.

584
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:58.980
Yeah. in terms of what they were meant to be shooting, and that's where Susie Liggett came on board as a production unit manager who later became producer.

585
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:10.440
So yeah, it was it was a tumultuous production, but I think you can, as broad as Mickey has played in this story, You can begin to see the seed of the braver character he will become.

586
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:17.940
Something I still find is very odd is there's an implication that he soils himself in the nestine lair.

587
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:23.039
Yeah, which because when Rose finds him, he says, and she says, oh, you're stinking.

588
00:38:23.099 --> 00:38:25.019
And originally I thought, oh, that's the bin.

589
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:30.119
But at the end of the episode where they're stumbling out, he's kind of walking bow-legged.

590
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:31.380
I think, yeah.

591
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.780
He's like RuPrech the Monkey Boy at that point.

592
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:38.280
It's really unfortunate And I do think I do want to blame Keith Boke.

593
00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:39.059
I just do that?

594
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.599
I think he's not a very good one. you were the only one?

595
00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:44.460
No, I don't think I was.

596
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:52.800
And we'll get more of that later because some of the very earlier scenes shot where in like World War 3 and they're astonishingly poor.

597
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:55.860
But they do walk back from that stuff almost immediately.

598
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.800
So the bright saturated colours in roses flat.

599
00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:05.280
All of that sort of hyper real kind of children's TV look that he brings to it.

600
00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:17.820
Now, there are things about it that I like enormously, things like the montage at the very beginning, you know, the way that we get the story of Rose's life to hold in a way that would just never, ever have been possible in the original show.

601
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:22.260
And even, you know, people complained about the bin and the burping bin and stuff like that.

602
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.079
But I think that's tremendously good.

603
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:28.019
And, you know, it...

604
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:28.739
Yep.

605
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.099
I don't think it's necessarily well realised, but I think it's a really good idea.

606
00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:38.880
And I certainly remember walking down the street for weeks afterwards feeling tentative about touching the tops of any bins.

607
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.579
And I certainly knew that there were 10 year olds that were feeling the same way.

608
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:45.900
Dear listener, can you feel the grimace on Todd's face at this point?

609
00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:47.400
was Russell's idea?

610
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.559
In is just pathetic.

611
00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:50.699
I'm sorry.

612
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.559
But it's that kind of thing.

613
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:53.940
You know, it's the same thing.

614
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.079
And I think Russell is doing it quite deliberately and he will do it with the farting aliens as well.

615
00:39:58.139 --> 00:40:09.840
Don't get me started. is that he's doing stuff that hasn't been on Doctor Who before, and he's doing things that don't sit well with finally ending up as TARDIS Wikia pages.

616
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:10.800
Do you know what I mean?

617
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:17.159
There was a whole heap of people who didn't like the last Jedi because it contradicted some of their favourite Wookipedia articles.

618
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:39.420
And I think that Russell, by doing that sort of stuff and the burp joke, which occurs no less than 3 times in Return of the Jedi, is a sort of signify that this is not just for people who have all of Peter Haning's, you know, coffee table books on their shelves, but it is for the kids at home and for the adults as well.

619
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.500
And it's a sign that we're not going to be taking this show that seriously.

620
00:40:43.619 --> 00:40:45.599
Regarding the bin.

621
00:40:45.659 --> 00:41:02.159
I do wonder if that was a little bit of a tribute to the Dear Departed Craig Hinton's novel, Synthespians, which was a BBC book which preceded the new series, which dealt with a TV broadcaster in Deep Space, but all the actors are autons.

622
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:11.039
But also various other plastic things come to life, including in a deleted scene, a murderous thallus, shall we say?

623
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:17.219
And, you know, Rose gets that line later, you know, the phone lines, this, that, the breast implants.

624
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:29.699
I have to say that when I learned that the 1st episode was going to be about autons and that they were shooting in a street outside a bridal shop and I sort of suddenly realised they'd be autons in bridal gowns.

625
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:39.719
I was so incredibly excited because they're all wearing sort of really terrible 70s clothes in spearhead from space.

626
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:43.619
But having them in sort of active wear and bridal outfits.

627
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.579
And in fact, if you read the script, the scriptbook for season one is published.

628
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:52.199
And Russell writes the autons and they're not directed this way at all, of course, because Keith.

629
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:59.340
He writes the autons as being very elegant and well dressed and that that's how they carry themselves.

630
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:10.440
Yeah, one thing Russell was particularly on happy with was the sort of very, very jerky robotic motion because he didn't want people to think they were robots.

631
00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:16.199
He wanted people to think they were solid plastic and to move sort of slowly in the way the original series Autons did.

632
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:25.800
But, you know, I'm not going to harp on it, Keith, because of that because that is the 1st thought you would go to, that these are robots, you know.

633
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:27.780
And at this point, communication was difficult.

634
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:29.699
It is how the original autons move.

635
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:33.420
Maybe Keith is more of an underfan than anyone had realised.

636
00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:35.639
But they're not actually called autons, are they, at any point?

637
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:38.519
They only mentioned is the nesting consciousness.

638
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.440
They're credited as autons.

639
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:43.079
I think it's autons created by Robert Holmes in the closing credit.

640
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:48.780
But yeah, I suppose I suppose they didn't want to introduce too many space work.

641
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:49.619
Space Words.

642
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:58.980
Like, we've already got Sonic Screwdriver, TARDIS, nestine, um, anti-flashing, time war, proclamation, shadow proclamation.

643
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:12.960
It's one of the biggest strengths of this script is that he's not giving us like the 1996 telly movie in the 1st minute, you know, Time Lords Master, Skyro, Daleks, regeneration, you know, it's not a list of things like that.

644
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:17.340
And it's, as I've said before, it's not aimed at the fans.

645
00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:19.739
You know, you want the general public to come in.

646
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.320
And I just think that's the right approach.

647
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:30.360
It's funny you should say that, though, because Lorraine Hegasy and Jane Tranter, who were the BBC controllers, who were really behind this project.

648
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:33.539
When Russell turned in the 1st script, one of them said, where's the master?

649
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:35.280
and one of them said, where's the Daleks?

650
00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:38.340
You know, we need a big draw.

651
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:45.420
And it was actually Julie Gardner who went into bat and said, no, he's the last of the time lords now, so we don't have to explain Gallifrey or anything like that.

652
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.800
He's the last of his kind, so there's no danger of people running around in silly hats.

653
00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:53.639
And as for Daleks, they're going to be halfway through to get bums on seats again.

654
00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:54.960
And everyone was happy.

655
00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:58.679
Something I didn't mention earlier is that Michael Grade almost killed it again.

656
00:43:58.739 --> 00:43:59.400
Really?

657
00:43:59.460 --> 00:43:59.940
What?

658
00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:02.639
So he just does that in his sleep at this point.

659
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:04.440
It's a reflex.

660
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:08.219
He stumps his toe and cancels...

661
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:17.340
No, that makes that internet pick of scowling rustle and scowling Steve, Michael Gray did a book signing all the more relevant, doesn't it?

662
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:25.380
So while it was in pre-production, Michael Grade had been reappointed as BBC one controller.

663
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.519
And Valiard.

664
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:30.539
And so he appointed a new director general, Mark Thompson.

665
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:42.420
Now, 1st of all, Michael Grade had been asked, you know, what do you think about Doctor Who coming back because, of course, you cancelled it in the 80s and his response was very diplomatic in that, you know, pretty much I trust the people working at the BBC.

666
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.460
Otherwise, I wouldn't be in charge here.

667
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.460
I am not directly responsible for commissioning programs.

668
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.639
Doctor Who can come back so long as I don't have to watch it.

669
00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:53.940
However, that wasn't very supportive.

670
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.019
No, no.

671
00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:59.219
However, he did appoint a new director general, Mark Thompson.

672
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:03.960
And Mark Thompson was concerned, is there actually audience demand for Doctor Who?

673
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:13.619
And the production team had commissioned a single report about audience demand with a very low appreciation for whether Doctor Who should come back.

674
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:15.119
Not people saying it shouldn't.

675
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:16.199
They don't really care.

676
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:23.579
So what Jane Trant did when he asked, is there any audience report, she said, no, we haven't done one.

677
00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:32.460
And Julie Gardiner then said, and you know, we've sunk so much money into this that if we give it up, we're going to lose twice as much as if we carry on.

678
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:34.320
I love these women.

679
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:35.400
Yeah, me too.

680
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:43.199
Reading, you know, reading this, Doctor Who, the complete history, which gives, I'm not sponsored, which gives a great rundown.

681
00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:47.099
There are so many women involved in bringing back Doctor Who.

682
00:45:47.159 --> 00:46:09.719
It feels like, in terms of the production side, the only men involved are Russell T. Davies and Mal Young, and latterly Phil Collinson, and you've got Julie Gardin, you've got Lorraine Heggesi, you've got Jane Tranter, and you have other senior women at the BBC as well, who are all involved in bringing it back, and it seems to be half they want to bring back Doctor Who, and half they want to with Russell T. Davies.

683
00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:14.579
And those 2 desires seem intertwined.

684
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.659
And, you know, Russell then has this five-year journey of bringing Doctor Who back to the screen.

685
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:33.480
What I adore about this, as opposed to the 1996 telly movie, which gets it so wrong, is the fact that obviously we come in with Rose's eyes, and the doctors introduced several minutes into the actual sequence.

686
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:43.260
And you've had the opening credits where there's a police box and you see a little, the 1st time you see the doctor then in the background after that explosion, you see a little bit of a police box.

687
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:53.340
Then the doctor goes away and comes back again and they have that the 2nd time and then they have their walk and then you see the police box in full and he goes to the police box with the key, right?

688
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:55.800
She walks away and you hear a noise and then it's gone.

689
00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:59.280
Then he's away again and she does her investigation.

690
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:00.840
So you know a bit more about the doctor.

691
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:04.139
So you're learning a little bit more about the doctor, like these little titbits.

692
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:06.300
You're not trying to overwhelm the audience.

693
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:11.460
And then, um, Plastic Mickey goes insane, and then you've got the full police box.

694
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:12.840
He goes in, right?

695
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:17.099
And as a classic series fan, like you're wanting her to go in to see what it is.

696
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:20.340
She goes in and you don't see it and you're going, 0 my goodness.

697
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:24.539
Oh my goodness, you don't see inside and like, you know, I assume for a new audience, it's like, well, what is this?

698
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.840
And she goes around it and then you go in and see it, right?

699
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:31.980
And the whole thing, like, and that's 27 minutes into the episode.

700
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:35.880
Which is, you know, it's not like...

701
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:36.360
That's right.

702
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:37.079
What the hell is this?

703
00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:39.300
And I just think that's absolutely brilliant.

704
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:43.019
But then it moves and he talks about being alien and TARDIS.

705
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.719
You just get a little bit of information. don't get overload dump.

706
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:49.860
And it's moved to a different location, but you still don't see it appear, right?

707
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:50.400
Yeah.

708
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:57.000
And then at the end, of course, they get out of the exploding nesting area.

709
00:47:57.179 --> 00:47:59.880
Do we see it land then, I can't remember.

710
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:04.739
We see it land for the 1st time, but she still hasn't seen it take off or land.

711
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:10.500
And at the end of the episode, obviously, you know, he disappears and she sees it disappear and reappear.

712
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:15.420
And it just struck me like how many Doctor Who companions in the history of the show.

713
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.400
They meet the doctor, right?

714
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:22.440
And then they go into the TARDIS, but have they actually seen the TARDIS appear or disappear?

715
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:24.599
At this point, they're always inside the Tartars.

716
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.000
They don't actually see that dematerialisation.

717
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:37.619
And to me, it's often the last thing they see in their time with the doctor is actually, they finally see the demotrial centre, the TARDIS, at the end of their run, never.

718
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:41.159
And I only just thought about this, like when I was watching it.

719
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.380
I'm going, how many actually see that?

720
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.900
They just meet the doctor and do you know what I'm saying?

721
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:48.780
Yeah, yeah, they only finally see it disappear when it leaves without me.

722
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:49.679
When they're gone.

723
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:52.380
I just got chills like thinking about that.

724
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:53.639
God that's brilliant.

725
00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:54.300
Yeah.

726
00:48:54.360 --> 00:49:06.239
I mean, they obviously are some that have, but also, as you say, because Rose is now seeing it for the 1st time, we're seeing it as well, because we do see it leave the nestine thing.

727
00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:07.679
But as well explosions are going on.

728
00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:09.900
Mike Tucker is back doing models by the way.

729
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:18.599
But because there's explosions going on, it's not until Rose watches it go and the doctor goes off for a few seconds and has 57 box sets at big finish.

730
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:21.900
Is that coming soon?

731
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:22.800
That's coming soon.

732
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.059
He's only said it once.

733
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:26.639
Let's not startle him.

734
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:34.679
But yeah, Rose then sees it come back at the same time, we do, and then we find out it travels in time.

735
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.139
That gorgeous last line.

736
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.960
But it's just brilliant.

737
00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:47.219
I think it's just brilliant how these little bits all the way through enough for classic series fans to be going, ooh, but the public not to be overwhelmed.

738
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.559
And I just think it gets so right in this, you know?

739
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:53.760
I also think it gets Rosa's arc right in a way that the tele movie doesn't.

740
00:49:53.820 --> 00:50:01.920
So we get to see how it might have played out if she decided not to go with a doctor because for a 2nd she doesn't.

741
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:15.420
And then she's instantly so dejected, like really sells it completely and she's going back to her life of looking after her mother and looking after Mickey and just sort of generally being underappreciated and things like that.

742
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:18.539
And then she gets this spectacular 2nd chance.

743
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:20.880
And it's, it's wonderful.

744
00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:22.019
Yes, yeah.

745
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:22.739
It really is.

746
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:26.940
Now, Richard, something you said earlier before we started recording.

747
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:31.860
This story is kind of remixed elements of what we've seen before.

748
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:37.679
So why do you think it works in a way that the telly movie, which was also remixed elements, doesn't?

749
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:45.719
Okay, apart from the fact that you can't just make a millange or a trifle, a mere foolish thing of rebooted elements.

750
00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:49.739
I think it just works because it has a linear plot.

751
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:51.059
It has consistency.

752
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:52.139
It has expert.

753
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.619
I think this should be the top of the list, expert characterisation and casting.

754
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:01.619
And it's interesting that the tenure of this of us today is maybe the direction isn't that great.

755
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:05.400
I thought it was really pacy and surprising and fun and terrific.

756
00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:16.019
And reminded me actually of Sylvester's motorcycle stunts in his last stories because it felt that sort of thing but done with, you can see the evident cash.

757
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:23.940
It feels incredibly nostalgic, but oddly enough for a time, maybe only 7 years before it was broadcast.

758
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:33.780
It feels like it's nostalgic for the early Blair years, that where we are politically, and you know, because this is my shtick with FTE.

759
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:48.300
But politically, we're already looking back, not just as the show, to the lovely golden times of when, you know, the country was blacked out and people were only working 3 day weeks, but still, it wasn't at almost so much better with Hovah's bread ads and all the rest of it.

760
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:55.860
But there's also just for that recent hope and maybe it's not too late and maybe we just need to look at who we are and what we do so well.

761
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.860
And I think really the impetus for the show and why it picked up.

762
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:00.300
The timing was perfect.

763
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:01.980
People were wanting.

764
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:13.139
Well, just feeling that we still have a little bit of hope and we still have some impetus and things can be done, but it's still in the way that Britain is even at its most forward thinking.

765
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:15.480
It's still conservative in that it always looks to the past.

766
00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:18.480
It is that London thing.

767
00:52:18.539 --> 00:52:20.340
It's so London, this 1st episode.

768
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.619
You've got the London eye, you've got London buses.

769
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.320
You've got Westminster Bridge and...

770
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:25.619
It was.

771
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:28.380
Well, it was the original title, Fear of a Welsh planet, wasn't it?

772
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:40.679
But it's also, it's also running, queer as folk, which Marigold also did the music for, has so much running, like, and there's a theme to it.

773
00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:43.500
You know, whenever the characters are running from place to place.

774
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:44.579
There's a theme to it.

775
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.559
And it's the 1st word that the doctor says.

776
00:52:46.619 --> 00:52:56.400
And they spend the entire episode running and there's something so breathless and exciting and they're running through recognisable places.

777
00:52:56.460 --> 00:52:58.500
They're not running through a sleepy English village.

778
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.599
They're not running down a cardboard corridor.

779
00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:04.739
They're running down Westminster Bridge with London landmarks in the background.

780
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.320
London will become such a part of it.

781
00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:16.019
It is something, you know, Britain is the most hip and interesting place in the world as far as Doctor Who is concerned or London itself is.

782
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:21.119
And I think that that's, you know, a historical attitude that they're looking back onto.

783
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:30.659
I think they were very much seeing that Britain had not gone in the way they'd hoped, and Gordon Brown casting his very thin and pallid shadow.

784
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:37.980
No one had confidence in him, and yet, looking back now, he looked actually like a man with, if not vision, he certainly was sturdy.

785
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:42.780
He was the John Major of his times and offered more, but this was not a Britain that would have talked about Brexit.

786
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:43.320
No.

787
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:43.739
No.

788
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.920
This is not a story that would have talked about throwing everything away.

789
00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:53.940
This was a story about, what have we done in the past that was at its best and how we can use that to move on?

790
00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:02.579
It's also extraordinary, how this revival led to other revivals or talk of other revivals.

791
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:07.380
So it did lead to a revival of the Tomorrow people as an American co-production.

792
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.739
It almost led to a revival of sapphire and steel.

793
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:12.840
That was pitched.

794
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:15.840
And this is still in development.

795
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:26.579
There is a revival of the Avengers in development that's been talked about since 2005 from the director of Iron Man 3, which is a very, very stylish and very avengers-ish movie.

796
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:28.199
Unset in the 60s.

797
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:30.420
Well, you would want to hope so.

798
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:47.639
But what is very interesting is that the time tunnel opening sequence, of course, is terribly nostalgic for Doctor Who in the 70s, the other idea was an Avengers style opening sequence with symbols and faces and what have you.

799
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:53.940
But somewhere out there, there's sort of an intermediate phase of the time tunnel with Eccleston's face in it.

800
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.079
The footage has never been released.

801
00:54:55.139 --> 00:54:55.920
Love to see that.

802
00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:56.880
Is it gurney?

803
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:57.659
It was created.

804
00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:58.619
I don't know.

805
00:54:58.679 --> 00:54:59.639
It's never been.

806
00:54:59.699 --> 00:55:01.559
And that's the thing.

807
00:55:01.619 --> 00:55:06.960
This episode is shrouded still in so much mystery because we don't have the deleted scenes.

808
00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:11.460
They've never appeared on any DVD or Blu-ray edition. despite the fact they do exist.

809
00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:22.559
And also, Eccleston, you know, has recently commented about directors right from the beginning not taking care of their supporting artistes.

810
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:23.940
Crashing sofas.

811
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:25.860
Yeah, well, that's my theory, right?

812
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:30.059
There was as part of the Henrix explosion, Hendrix.

813
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.440
No, that's a gin.

814
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:46.860
There was as part of the Henriks explosion, a burning sofa that was meant to fall onto the street and it was shot, and the official line is that the visual effects supervisor Dave Houghton wasn't happy with it, and so they composited in an explosion later.

815
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.119
But to me, it's like, that still doesn't explain why you get rid of the debris crashing down.

816
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:59.699
And I just wonder if, from Eccleston's perspective, there wasn't due care taken in a dangerous stunt against extras.

817
00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:04.199
And if Bowick kind of went, oh, you know, we're behind schedule, we're just going to get on with it.

818
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:20.699
That could have easily, um, annoyed Eccleston, who, He takes pride in whether you're the extra or whether you're the star, you're important to this production and, you know, he attributes that to his working class roots.

819
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:22.679
Now, I don't know if that's true.

820
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:24.119
That's me reading between the lines.

821
00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:25.199
That's my thing, what I do.

822
00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:40.739
But the fact that this year of Doctor Who is still shrouded in so much secrecy, it kind of mirrors what we're getting now in that Chris Chibnall and his team are being very careful to release very little information about their production.

823
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:45.780
And Russell T. Davis was a master at releasing information.

824
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:50.039
But it'd take you a few minutes to realise actually you didn't really know much at all.

825
00:56:50.280 --> 00:57:05.219
It was a great little piece that I think Dan Hogarth put together or just episodes completely tied together with taxis standing on streets and people with outside supermarkets and bin liners and such like.

826
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:05.460
Yeah.

827
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:17.219
I remember the 1st picture of Christopher Eccleston that escaped from the set was from the end of World War 3 when he's walking down a street and judging from the position and whatnot.

828
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:21.059
It's the bit where he's telling Rose that Harriet Jones will bring in a golden age for Britain.

829
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:24.300
Because there was a photo of Penelope Wilton like shouting to people.

830
00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:28.380
And Eccleston just wandering through the background, his mouth open.

831
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:33.179
But for ages, aside from the official publicity, that was the only shot we have him in action.

832
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:36.059
And people kept compositing it onto DVD covers.

833
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:43.739
I was astounded at one of those corner window TVI interviews that was loudly touted as, you know, the costume being revealed.

834
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:44.460
No, it's not.

835
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:45.539
He's just on his civvies.

836
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:46.679
He's just walking off the street.

837
00:57:46.739 --> 00:57:48.119
A scarf.

838
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:49.440
Where's the stick of salary?

839
00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:52.019
And the jaw-droppingness that is that the?

840
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:52.920
No, is that the costume?

841
00:57:52.980 --> 00:57:53.579
No, no.

842
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:55.860
So how they reveal these things is very important.

843
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.400
It was done poorly and I. I'm saying it's not a costume.

844
00:57:59.460 --> 00:58:00.119
It's not a costume.

845
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:05.099
It's not what the 80s became, you know, he could be wearing it anywhere, which is exactly right.

846
00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.719
So this production just ticks so many boxes correctly.

847
00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:19.619
You know, um, and it feeds old series fans, it feeds those people who aren't slightly familiar with the show back in the 70s like with the autumns, they may remember it.

848
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.320
It's ticking for new people to come in, making it very easy.

849
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:27.420
There's just so many different areas that they are managing to hit.

850
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:32.940
And it also, you know, sends up the fans with the whole, you know, one of your nutters has arrived.

851
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:41.940
Oh, it's a she, you know, a little not, you know, not to us, where it's a fun thing that if you know Doctor Who fandom, you know.

852
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:47.880
Yeah, it's little things like that, which are little icing on the cake, I think, in terms of for some of it.

853
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:56.460
Yeah, and with Clive sort of being a bit comedic and a bit fanish, when Rose leaves him in the original script anyway.

854
00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:58.199
She doesn't just go straight back out to Mickey.

855
00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:04.800
We actually see her walk out of the shed and Carolyn's there, um, wheeling along a load of bricks because Clive never does anything around the house.

856
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:09.780
And they just have this moment where Rose says, I'm sorry, and Carolyn says, yeah, I know.

857
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:32.039
But the thing, but the thing with Clive is, and with the whole script, as much as there is comedy and action and that sort of thing, there is one other element in this, in the fact that Clive dies, and Russell manages to introduce the fact that there is danger and there is death there, and it's something that is real, and there are consequences.

858
00:59:53.099 --> 01:00:03.599
Well, dear listener, we're getting ready to run very, very slowly into the Tartar so that Christopher Eccleston can whisk us away to the Ear 5.5/apple/26.

859
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.539
So do come back next week for the end of the world.

860
01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:17.340
In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find over 130 episodes covering our flight through the entirety of the classic series.

861
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:22.380
We're also flying through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

862
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:28.559
Over on Bondfinger, you can find our commentary podcasts on literally 100s of James Bond films.

863
01:00:28.619 --> 01:00:33.599
That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

864
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:36.900
Including the 57 versions of Casino Royale.

865
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:37.920
Yeah and counting.

866
01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:46.860
So until next time, may you have an astonishingly successful night next Saturday and wake up on Sunday morning to discover that you're now the biggest thing on television.

867
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.420
In a red hoodie. yes.

868
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.519
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

869
01:00:50.699 --> 01:00:52.320
See you soon.

870
01:00:52.380 --> 01:00:53.219
Bye.

871
01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:03.300
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Richard Stone, and Gay Games grappling champion, Brendan Jones.

872
01:01:03.420 --> 01:01:04.500
He got the bronze.

873
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:08.219
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

874
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:15.239
This episode, Fear of a Welsh Planet, was recorded on the 27th of May 2018 and released on the 26th of August.

875
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:18.119
Here at FDE.

876
01:01:18.179 --> 01:01:28.199
We'd like to congratulate friend of the podcast, Pete McTie, for his gig as a writer on series 11 of Doctor Who, and to tell him that we look forward to seeing a remake of the massacre in the near future.

877
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.159
Um, Rick Mile, was it Rick Mile?

878
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:35.159
But Hugh Jack, not Hugh Jack.

879
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:35.579
Huge.

880
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:37.320
Huge Grant.

881
01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:39.719
Hugh Grant was offered.

882
01:01:39.780 --> 01:01:40.619
Huge grant.

883
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:44.760
That's right, was offered the role and turned it down and has said in...

884
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:46.320
Dishwasher?

885
01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:47.519
No, that's the dog.

886
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.420
Um, Pincho.

887
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:52.019
Okay.

888
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:52.800
Look, it's fine.

889
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:53.940
The memory of Pink Chong.

890
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.880
We get we get police cars and helicopters, it might.

891
01:01:56.940 --> 01:01:59.639
Um, drugging.

892
01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:01.739
So what were we were with?

893
01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:02.760
Huge ground.

894
01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:04.559
We will start with you, guys.

895
01:02:04.619 --> 01:02:05.699
Just give it a say.

896
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:06.960
It's all you darling.

897
01:02:07.019 --> 01:02:09.059
So yep.

898
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:10.380
I need to go to the toilet.

899
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:11.099
We'll do it.

900
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:11.940
Yeah, do it now.

901
01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:14.400
I'll leave it on, leave it on.

902
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:15.480
In fact, take it in.

903
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:17.940
Can't be any worse.

904
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:20.280
Great.

905
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.559
Any noise did you now hear on this podcast are not me, people.

906
01:02:25.619 --> 01:02:26.880
Tag.

907
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:29.579
Well, none of us had even thought about that, so well done.

908
01:02:33.059 --> 01:02:35.519
Yeah, I think that's a title.

909
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:39.719
Yeah.

910
01:02:41.219 --> 01:02:45.719
God It was so mature.

911
01:02:45.780 --> 01:02:47.460
I'm 35 in October.

912
01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:50.460
Same age as some.

913
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:51.360
Me.

914
01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:52.079
Barbara.

915
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.360
As as Jackie Hill.

916
01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:55.019
Jackie Hill.

917
01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:56.159
Oh, she was actually...

918
01:02:56.219 --> 01:02:58.800
Did did you see those photos of Jackie Hiller?

919
01:02:58.860 --> 01:02:59.099
Yes.

920
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:01.679
Oh, I put one through Colorised Bot.

921
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:02.519
It did a very good job.

922
01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:06.960
There's a Twitter account, colorised bot, and it uses algorithm.

923
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:07.500
Still rude.

924
01:03:07.619 --> 01:03:09.480
It uses algorithms.

925
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:12.300
It colourizes the entire the entire lower area.

926
01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:15.420
For short, short.

927
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:18.119
Colonic colourisation.

928
01:03:18.179 --> 01:03:19.019
Tag.

929
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:23.099
Actually...

930
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:27.179
When are we doing the old podcast?

931
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:29.639
That's redo.

932
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:30.960
When are we doing that?

933
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:33.239
When are we doing the massacre too?

934
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:35.280
Huguenot boogaloo.

935
01:03:36.420 --> 01:03:38.699
Huganoo boogaloo.

936
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:39.960
You can do boogaloo.