WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:29:29

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back at last to Flight Through

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Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who actually did order the

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champagne, and we're drinking it now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Brendan.

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And I'm here too.

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So we've been off the air for nearly 10 years now, so we're all

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well rested and raring to commit some fairly major acts of

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domestic terrorism at tea time on BBC one.

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That's right.

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It's the 1st episode of the new series, Rose.

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What I did, did you?

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Oh, absolutely.

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I always rise to the occasion.

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Yeah, there's not a major department store in London still

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standing as we speak.

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I'm still in shock from this story, and I'm talking about seeing

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it in 2000.

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When did we say it's 6 five?

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Yeah, 2005, yeah. in Australia.

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Well, it's a very long time.

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Very long time ago.

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I was just sitting here relieved thinking, oh, at least this will

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be a really short run for FTE because it's only been going a short

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time.

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It hasn't, has it?

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No.

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We're actually up to where Liz, is Liz is almost about to take a

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stuff down and tell him where to put his aspidistra, isn't she?

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In real time, yeah, in real time.

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That's right.

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Yeah it's terrifying.

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Just as well that everyone agrees that the show is entirely lovely

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and that there's no controversy with any production staff for the

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entire 13 years run.

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So it'll be very smooth.

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It has been very, very peaceful, but that's mostly because all the

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people involved are still alive.

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And we can't bitch about them behind their backs.

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Can we talk about the new series?

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Can we?

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I think we can.

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Yeah.

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So I remember, and my Doctor of the Complete History is telling me

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that the new series was announced.

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I'm plumbing for 2003.

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Yeah, that would be my guess as well.

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Wednesday, September 24th.

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2003.

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2003.

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Where were you sitting, Todd?

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It wasn't comfortable.

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My memory cheats.

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I thought it was 2004, but yeah.

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I was sitting at work.

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I remember absolutely being naughty looking at the interweb in

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2003, which you had to do through your workstation, so everyone

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knew what you were doing, but nobody actually was that skilled to

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be able to see what you were doing.

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And it came up.

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Eccles cakes was going to be the new doctor.

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And I thought, that'll be a really lovely one off special or maybe

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a cup of yes.

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Yeah, it's hard to believe that it was going to kind of last as

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long as it did. didn't quite believe it. was just a thing.

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I think I was in denial because it had been off the air and we had

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the audio series with Big Finish was sort of what I assumed that

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we would have forever.

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And, well, actually my 1st reaction was, well, that's it.

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We're stuffed because I was organising another Doctor Who

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convention.

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And so it was going to be the last one of the team of the

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conventions that I'd been running for like, you know, 7 or 8 years

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and we were trying to get Peter Davidson, and we had India Fisher

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who was the Doctor Who girl in terms of audios, and we were trying

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to promote her.

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And I think we had Louise Jemison, and then we pulled out, and

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then Louise pulled out.

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Barbara Joss pulled herself.

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And I think Fraser came on board so we had a black and white

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companion, an audio companion, and then this was announced and I

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went, well, that's it.

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We're just...

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Who's gonna care?

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Yeah, we're just stuffed.

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I didn't use that word.

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We're not going to get anybody because everybody would want

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somebody from the new series.

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No, no, I remember that.

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And I flashing forward because I may not be here to discuss this.

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I remember, do you remember, Todd, you tried to get Annette

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Badland?

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Well, she actually contacted us.

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Oh, right.

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And what she wanted as a guest star was more than what we'd ever

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paid for doctors.

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I'm not free.

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Which was, you know, which fair enough, you know, it's a new time

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a new century, you know, and I fully expected that, but it sort of

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sort of made me go, okay, we're entering a brand new sort of era

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of things here, like in terms of conventions and stuff and it's

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not going to be nice little intimate things anymore.

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It's going to change forever.

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Try her now, see how much she is.

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I think she's got a soap at the moment.

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I think she's on our telly all the time, if unless I'm much

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mistaken.

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She's been in EastEnders.

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He's an EastEnders?

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Yes, I think so.

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No, she wasn't the first.

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And Bonnie.

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Bonnie.

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But recently.

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So that was mine, that was mine initial thing.

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Well that's it.

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Yeah, wow.

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Did we hear rumours about it beforehand?

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Um, there had been rumours since 2000, and it was always Russell's

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name attached to it.

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And Russell was talking to the BBC from 1999 after the success of

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Queer as folk.

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But the thing was, Russell thought the BBC weren't serious about

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it, which for some people led to a knock-on effect of, oh, I

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thought Russell T. Davies really wanted to do Doctor Who, but he

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doesn't seem to.

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He's not returning calls to set the other, there was also the

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problem that the rights still rested with BBC films.

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After the telly movie.

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And so there was a complicated right situation there.

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Mark Gators and Gareth Roberts had pitched a 21 half hour episode

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series made up of seven, three-part stories with their dream

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casting was Derek Jacobeers, the doctor, that was written about in

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Dwim a couple of years ago.

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And the one thing I really remember was sort of 2 or 3 stories in

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the episode Cliffhanger would be UFO lands, a Dalek slides out

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companion turns around.

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What is it, doctor?

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And the doctor says, I've no idea.

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Yeah.

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But that was their idea of the time war.

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He'd forgotten it.

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Yeah, instead they were.

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That would have been a zinger, wouldn't it?

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They were constantly after Russell, but Jane Tranter, who became a

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champion of the series, when she finally cornered Russell and got

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him to agree to a meeting, suddenly went off on maternity leave.

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So this is in 2002.

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So it doesn't come up until 2003.

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In terms of what I remember from the time, I remember the

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announcement because I was so excited for a little thing, which

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was going to be the continuation of Doctor Who called Scream of

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the Sharka.

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So Scream of the Shalaka was announced around, I think, June or

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July, and then the very next month, it gets gazumped by Doctor Who

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is coming back to television.

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But screen... isn't that a cartoon thing?

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Yeah, yeah, we've done...

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Richard D. Grant.

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Richard D. Grant, in Stephen Moth, Inverness Cape.

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Yes.

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And massive blue mobile phone. which he does everything.

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And a fantastic companion.

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Yeah, Oscar winner, Sophie Okanido.

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Who is Liz 10, isn't she?

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Exactly.

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The Beast Below, and of course, Derek Jacobi playing the master

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which is something I'm surprised they never thought to do again.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It really is very good except for the fact that it's not.

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Yeah, and except for except for the fact that Richard E. Grant has

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no idea what Doctor Who is.

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He saw a Dalek once during a charity special.

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But that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to play a poor

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doctor, and this is probably where we lead into Eccles.

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Not being a non-wi can actually help.

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An actor should come to a part.

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Freshly.

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Yes.

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Um, I saw the news on uh, Doctor Who news.com, as is now, Outpost

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Gallifray back then, and they had to shut down the forum for a day

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just because people got so, yeah, so excited and so angry.

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Like it must be 25 minute episodes.

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No, it must not be 25 minute episodes and J.

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Sean Lyon stepping in and saying, guys, we literally know

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nothing.

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Because at this point, the BBC didn't even know how many episodes

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they were going to make.

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Initially they offered Russell 6.

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Russell counted with eight.

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Julie Gardner is then the one who came in and said, actually

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here's the sums for 13.

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Bless Julie.

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Oh my goodness.

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Going to be the patron saint of the podcast over the next 4 years

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I think.

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Can I can I give my stupid fanboy reaction, though, my stupid

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angry fanboy reaction or something?

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So a year after the initial announcement on October 18 in 2004?

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They released the logo.

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Yeah.

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My cat was doing it for several years beforehand on the side.

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Friend of the podcast.

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I mean that in a nice publishable way.

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Yes.

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Friend of the podcast, Blaine Cochlan of JCBC films, actually sent

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me a picture of it because he was living back in the UK by that

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point.

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He's like, isn't this amazing?

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And I don't know what it was.

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It was a couple of days after my birthday and I remember I was at

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work and I was still working at KFC, so maybe I was annoyed about

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that, but I hated it.

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I said it looked amateurish and cheap.

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I hated the font.

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I hated the background.

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I said it was a ripoff and fast.scape.

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Yes, the typeface.

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Sorry, darling.

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No, I just do that to him.

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By the time it rocked around, I quite liked it, but I was just

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really, really abstreperous on that day and I just remember that.

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No one liked it.

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Except for me.

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Because it was new and shiny.

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We thought it was unworthy of the diamond logo, frankly. was not

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impressed.

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You didn't like it?

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No.

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No.

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I can't say anything more that. didn't like it.

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In retrospect, I think it is amazingly good. sensational in red

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perspective.

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And it captures that London thing, which we're going to come back

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to over and over again during Russell's era because Dr. just like

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a taxi sign.

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Exactly.

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It does actually.

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And the way that he's dressed.

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No, it really does.

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He is a delivery man.

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He's delivering us hope.

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Oh, that's so beautiful.

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That's awful.

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And chips.

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So I worried that if it was 45 minute episodes that the doctor

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would be presented with things that were quite easy to solve, you

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know what I mean?

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And over the years the doctors got better at solving things, you

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know, normally it used to take him 6 episodes and, you know, per

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twe sort of slowed down at the beginning, it would take him 7

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episodes to solve something.

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And then eventually Sylvester Coy came along and he would just

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solve something in 3 episodes.

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He was a genius.

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But now we'd have a doctor who would solve things in 45 minutes.

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But I think in retrospect, it's the only possible choice that they

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could have made.

260
00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:22.259
You can't do that kind of thing where most people are tuning in on

261
00:11:22.259 --> 00:11:24.120
a Saturday night to watch a quarter of a story.

262
00:11:24.179 --> 00:11:25.379
But that's the point.

263
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.659
This would not have been this way if it wasn't Russell.

264
00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.779
This is more a Russell T. Davies piece of writing than it is a

265
00:11:30.779 --> 00:11:31.980
Doctor Who piece of writing.

266
00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:35.279
It is absolutely his way of approaching the world in his writing.

267
00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:39.120
Just happens to be that he's entirely sued, in who he is.

268
00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.100
Well, he's not pitching it to fans.

269
00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.799
He's not, and in order to make a show a success, you should not be

270
00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.620
pitching to a small group of people, you are writing for yourself

271
00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:50.519
and you're writing for general public and television's moved on by

272
00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:51.419
2004.

273
00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:54.480
And if we'd had 25 minute episodes, we would have had one series

274
00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:55.679
and that's that's it.

275
00:11:55.740 --> 00:11:58.919
And I remember at the time going, oh, 45 minute episodes, I'm not

276
00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.460
going to get enough character, sort of development, and, and, you

277
00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:05.940
know, I do think there are some pacing issues at various times, but

278
00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:09.539
it's the right decision and it's television now.

279
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:10.259
Yeah.

280
00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.659
And as for character development, I mean, you get more character

281
00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:17.700
stuff in a 45 minute Doctor Who episode these days than you did in

282
00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:20.159
sort of entire early seasons, to be honest.

283
00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:23.519
Or there's a different approach to character development where it

284
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.360
grows out of the actors' performances and very subtle things in

285
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:31.559
the old series, but the new series is much more explicit and much

286
00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:33.059
more deliberate about it, I think.

287
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.580
I guess what I mean by character development is that the

288
00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:38.639
supporting characters or the guest stars, you real, like, I mean

289
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.519
you know who Harrison Chase and Scorbia, you get to know the

290
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.559
villains or have a real understanding.

291
00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:46.080
Well, they'd be just throw away every week and you don't really

292
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.059
connect.

293
00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:49.500
Yeah, we don't get Greg and Petra back.

294
00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:50.220
Do you know what I mean?

295
00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:52.379
Who we get to know over the course of nearly 2 months.

296
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:54.539
So how was that going to pan out, you know?

297
00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:55.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

298
00:12:55.559 --> 00:13:00.840
One person who was a big proponent of the 45 minute structure, and

299
00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.059
I can't remember when she said it, so I might be getting ahead of

300
00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:04.440
myself, take a drink, dear listener.

301
00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:06.960
Um, But Janet Fielding.

302
00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:10.379
Janet Fielding said the 45 minute structure was great because she

303
00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:13.740
said, you know, back when we were doing it in 25, It takes about

304
00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:16.019
10 minutes for the audience to settle into the program.

305
00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:20.700
And so then you've only got 15 minutes of plot and exploration

306
00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:24.419
whereas with 45 minutes, 10 minutes to settle into the program, and

307
00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:27.000
then you've got 35 minutes to develop story in the characters.

308
00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.039
So she's like, even though the whole story takes less time.

309
00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.879
There's more time of the audience actually being engaged with the

310
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:34.740
idea after the setup.

311
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.460
And, you know, then she complained about Billy Piper's hair for 10

312
00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:39.240
minutes, but...

313
00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:42.299
What was she sticking her salary heart in for?

314
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:44.399
Nothing to do with it.

315
00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:47.820
I really do think if you look at so many classic Doctor Who

316
00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:50.639
stories now, like if you sat down and you actually scripted them

317
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:55.860
as a modern day television event, like a 6 episode story and look

318
00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:58.740
at the per tweeze, it would be completely differently structured

319
00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:01.440
and you'd write it, and I reckon that, you know, a 6 episode story

320
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.559
would be maybe, you know, 50 to 60 minutes, you would actually get

321
00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:05.460
it down to that long.

322
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.879
It's just a different television's changed and the way stories are

323
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.539
changed and the way television is produced and shot and audiences

324
00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:16.620
attention spans, may I say it, or the way we look at things now is

325
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:17.399
all different.

326
00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:18.000
Yeah.

327
00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:21.960
I mean, Stephen Moffatt makes the point, I think, correctly that

328
00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.139
old Doctor Who does consist of lots of people sort of standing

329
00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:28.860
urgently in corridors for long periods of time or...

330
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:34.200
My dinner with Andre action figure set is testing it on my dusted

331
00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.600
bookshelves to just how gripping this concept could be.

332
00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:37.440
Bugger off.

333
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.019
That is the history of small rep theatre.

334
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:43.259
People standing about saying horrible things have just happened

335
00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:44.340
over there behind the Arras.

336
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:48.000
Yeah, but now we can afford to kind of be a visual spectacle in a

337
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.659
way that Doctor Who did aim for and certainly hit, you know.

338
00:14:51.659 --> 00:14:52.980
Yeah, and Marco Polo.

339
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.039
I'm so grateful we got in touch with that Queensland fan and got

340
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:57.240
to catch up with that at Christmas.

341
00:14:57.299 --> 00:14:58.500
Didn't that blow you size?

342
00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:58.799
sideways?

343
00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:00.179
Yeah, no, I really enjoyed that.

344
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.840
Yeah, I just couldn't believe the scene with Meca Godzilla, you

345
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:04.019
know?

346
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.240
It totally wasn't in the script.

347
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:09.600
Yeah, yeah. what happened to the audio recording of that sequence

348
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:10.080
either.

349
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.639
So did we get casting straight away when they announced it?

350
00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:20.460
I think Eccles was right up at the front and that's what got the

351
00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:21.419
momentum, wasn't it?

352
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.419
Because Jane Tranter didn't push the button till they got Eccles.

353
00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:27.840
Yeah, and Eccles himself actually contacted Russell.

354
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:31.320
So the, yeah, the announcement came and I think casting came about

355
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.139
a month later, but Eccleston contacted Russell because they worked

356
00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:38.639
together before on the 2nd coming. which is a drama where

357
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:40.379
Christopher Eccleston plays Jesus.

358
00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:43.080
We'll actually talk about that in our Aliens of London episode

359
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:47.220
because it shares a lot of elements with the 2nd coming, in fact.

360
00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:53.399
But the thing is, what Christopher Eccleston says is he had seen a

361
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:58.019
little bit of Doctor Who in the 70s growing up, he would later say

362
00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:01.259
in interviews, you know, you either watched Doctor Who or you went

363
00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:03.299
and played sport, and I was usually playing sport, but I did see

364
00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:03.960
some of it.

365
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:06.480
But what he found was, everyone's so posh.

366
00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:07.740
There's no one like me on this show.

367
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.639
But then he thought, this guy's always moving.

368
00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:12.480
He's never at home.

369
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.960
And he sent an email to Russell saying that because immediately

370
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:19.080
the character fired his imagination, like how sad is his character

371
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:20.159
how lonely is this character?

372
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:21.360
What's the dramatic potential?

373
00:16:21.419 --> 00:16:25.200
And then as a PS he put, by the way, Russell, I might be

374
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:25.980
interested in this role.

375
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:26.700
Wow.

376
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:30.179
Only to find that Russell had already shortlisted him and

377
00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:34.019
completely unknown to him, he had been shortlisted for the

378
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:34.740
telemovie.

379
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:36.000
Oh, okay.

380
00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.879
He was never contacted, but he had been short-lived.

381
00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:41.159
Also, was Peter Capaldi.

382
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:43.919
John Sessions.

383
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:45.299
I think that was short.

384
00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:45.539
Yes.

385
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.000
Rick Mile, was it?

386
00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:48.539
Rick Mile?

387
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:54.899
So Hugh Grant was the 1st offer for the role because the BBC could

388
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:56.639
pretty much only put half the money in.

389
00:16:56.700 --> 00:17:01.500
So they needed international pre-sales and possibly co-production

390
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:03.960
money from elsewhere, which they eventually got from the Canadian

391
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:08.339
Broadcasting Corporation were a full co-producer for the 1st

392
00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:08.819
series.

393
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.940
Uh, and possibly the 2nd but not beyond that.

394
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.559
But Hugh Grant turned it down.

395
00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:15.660
He didn't want to be tied to a series and he has said in recent

396
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.240
years that he massively regrets it and it would have been

397
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:18.599
fantastic.

398
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:20.039
Have you seen that meme?

399
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:22.859
What would it have been like had Hugh Grant taken on this role?

400
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.019
Not planets have a Sussex.

401
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.539
Have you seen those little gifts?

402
00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:29.099
They're really telling.

403
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:32.339
It's the 2nd season of Cat Weasel without the jokes.

404
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.599
You humans, all you do is sit at Herman, drink beluga caviare.

405
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.200
The accent meaning of work.

406
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.539
I'm doing it now.

407
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:46.500
I don't know whether the series Bible, which has been published

408
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:49.440
you know, Russell's original pitch document for the 1st series.

409
00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:50.940
Rose meets the doctor.

410
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.799
Well, with Mugsy and Judy.

411
00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:53.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

412
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.799
Lola, Lola, and...

413
00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:57.000
Yeah it's so TV comic.

414
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:59.640
I was hoping for that as a reboot, frankly.

415
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.539
But he does say that he doesn't want the doctor to be the neutered

416
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:06.180
public schoolboy that he so often was in the past.

417
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.880
I've never known public schoolboys to be neuted anymore.

418
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:12.539
No, but I think that that's Hugh Grant's family motto, I think.

419
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.119
New to public school.

420
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

421
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:20.460
So, but perhaps perhaps they'd already decided to go into a sort

422
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.700
of more working class direction with Eccleston in a way that they

423
00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:28.619
kind of sort of kind of not really touch on with McCoy, who at

424
00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:30.180
least doesn't have an RP accent.

425
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.660
But he just has a whole lot of rollickings, doesn't he?

426
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.539
Yeah, but I mean, even the fact that Northern accent needs to be

427
00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:39.660
lampshaded in this episode with lots of planets having north.

428
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.099
How do we feel about that?

429
00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:43.799
I thought it was brilliant?

430
00:18:43.859 --> 00:18:47.279
Because it's taking the fact that people are going to say, oh, he

431
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.259
doesn't sound like a proper Doctor Who.

432
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.880
And it's providing an explanation while kind of saying the

433
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:54.900
explanation doesn't matter.

434
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.279
Yeah, we don't care.

435
00:18:56.339 --> 00:19:00.180
You know, for the people who need to understand why there's a

436
00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:04.079
certain voice and we'll get a scene like this cut from the

437
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:04.980
Christmas invasion.

438
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:09.059
They need some kind of explanation for the people who are living

439
00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:12.599
in the North and, you know, constantly been told, oh, if you want

440
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.400
to be actors, you have to learn to speak RP.

441
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.900
And Colin said at the casting of Christopher Eccleston, I hope he

442
00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:22.319
gets to keep the accent because I wasn't allowed because he's he's

443
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:23.039
from Manchester.

444
00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.359
Now, he didn't mean in Doctor Who.

445
00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:27.420
He meant generally when he came down in the 70s and became an

446
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:31.200
actor, he was told, you have to get rid of the Mancunian accent.

447
00:19:31.259 --> 00:19:34.440
Tom had to get rid of the Liverpool accent.

448
00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:36.119
He did that at a very early age.

449
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:36.900
So, yeah.

450
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.700
And Liz to a certain extent as well.

451
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:40.619
Although with Lisladen, it does creep through sometimes.

452
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.240
She was actually a bit naughty.

453
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:44.880
Barry Letts didn't want her to murder that cup of tea because it

454
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.579
was cruel and it would encourage aberrant behaviour.

455
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:49.200
But no, she was throwing things like gear off.

456
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:53.039
And they almost cut them because Terence Styx doesn't like

457
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.799
colonialism, except when it's done by the British Empire.

458
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:59.339
See, I knew nothing about Christopher Eccleston. didn't even know

459
00:19:59.339 --> 00:19:59.940
who he was.

460
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.380
You seen him in films, though.

461
00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:02.579
No, well, no.

462
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.039
I knew there, is he in 28 days?

463
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.980
That's the only thing I'd ever seen him in.

464
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:09.779
And like I couldn't even remember him from that.

465
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.220
So for me, I'm the same.

466
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:14.160
So for me, it was just a new person coming in playing the doctor

467
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.079
which I kind of liked that I didn't know anything about him.

468
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.539
So I was completely fine with whatever they went with.

469
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.960
Doctor Who was coming back for a year or 2 or whatever.

470
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:25.500
On the topic of conventions, which you mentioned earlier, Todd.

471
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.859
I was running the day events at the time, the mini conventions.

472
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.160
And so we decided it was a wonderful idea.

473
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:35.160
If we had a day looking at the work of Christopher Eccleston and

474
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:35.759
Billy Piper.

475
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:37.799
Yeah.

476
00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:39.299
How'd that go?

477
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:43.140
So Eccleston had done an episode of the League of Gentlemen, which

478
00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:45.599
we couldn't show in mixed company because it's the League of

479
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:46.140
Gentlemen.

480
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.599
So we showed the 2nd coming.

481
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:50.339
Oh, that's a good choice.

482
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.339
But in terms of Billy, Billy was very new to acting at this point

483
00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:55.559
she'd done the Canterbury Tales, but hadn't been released in

484
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.839
Australia yet, because it was on the strength of the Canterbury

485
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:58.799
Tale, she gets cast here.

486
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:05.339
So we played a Victoria Wood, as seen on TV special, where Billy's

487
00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:06.240
in it for 30 seconds.

488
00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:08.579
You could have played one of her music videos.

489
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.400
Actually, I think we did play because we want to in Honey to the

490
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:12.420
Bee and then I was told to stop.

491
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:14.460
And not day day and night.

492
00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:16.259
The day.

493
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.099
That's all I can sing.

494
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:19.200
I still got those CDs.

495
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:21.119
I actually like that song.

496
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:21.839
I love her music.

497
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.059
Yes, dear listeners, I have CDs.

498
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.279
They are physical objects.

499
00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:27.900
No I've never heard of them.

500
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.579
So what do we think of Billy?

501
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.099
I do remember at the time there was this sort of negative fan

502
00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:34.380
reaction because she...

503
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.019
I'm sorry, I mean, before the viewing. yeah.

504
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.279
Oh, well, it was spectacularly implosive. wasn't it much like

505
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:42.900
everything that was coming out?

506
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:47.400
I think the interesting thing about this period of Doctor Who is

507
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.960
that it is entirely interweb with fandom and that the voice of the

508
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.920
fan is absolutely entrenched in and interwoven with what we're

509
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.660
seeing on screen and wasn't like that before.

510
00:21:57.779 --> 00:21:59.220
We were just saying that nothing was new.

511
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.220
The casting of regional...

512
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:04.079
Well, we've seen all this in 87.

513
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:08.039
I think, though, that this season is unique.

514
00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:13.019
This series is unique because it's more or less in the can before

515
00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:14.339
there's any fan reaction.

516
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:21.359
And it is very, very conscious of not putting off new viewers.

517
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:23.880
You know, it doesn't want to be too science fiction-y.

518
00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:24.900
And it really...

519
00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:25.680
Well, it wasn't.

520
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:26.519
Until...

521
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.279
Well, not even in the castle.

522
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:30.359
Do you know what I mean?

523
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:31.680
Yeah, I sort of pretend that didn't happen.

524
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:33.359
I agree with you, Nathan.

525
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:36.960
And that's why Christopher Eckeston's interpretation, the doctor

526
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.480
is unique because it's the only one in the history of the show

527
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.259
where his entire performance.

528
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.279
There is no feedback from the public.

529
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:47.880
Oh, he, you know, even William Hart, or initially, yes, he's doing

530
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.400
what he's doing, but then, you know, he'd be, he'd have to be

531
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.680
talking to his grandchildren getting, you know, and other people

532
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.140
saying things, you know, whereas here it's unique.

533
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.680
Christopher has to make decisions based on what he's seeing in

534
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.539
daily rushes and that sort of thing, on the performance.

535
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.299
And I think you can see that as he goes through in terms of the

536
00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:06.779
comic perhaps aspects of it or how intense he is.

537
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.279
And it's completely unique.

538
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:11.519
Every other doctor that comes after him measures themselves

539
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:14.640
against him and they do more than one season, so they get to have

540
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.079
time to reflect and change things.

541
00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:19.380
I think Capaldi's a great example of that, actually.

542
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.119
Yes, perhaps anyone else.

543
00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:26.160
In terms of Billy, the papers were talking about it being Billy

544
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.299
Piper before Russell T. Davis and Julie Gardner spoke to Billy

545
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:30.839
Piper.

546
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:37.079
Because she was a very successful pop star, who never had a big

547
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.700
scandal the way a lot of successful pop stars do at the time she

548
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:47.160
had a successful marriage to a very successful person, now that

549
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.420
broke down over the course of this filming, partially due to them

550
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:53.759
being separated and apart from each other.

551
00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:58.140
But, you know, also that commented in later years that it was

552
00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.779
something with a sort of finite lifespan on it.

553
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.700
And so this successful pop star then moves into acting.

554
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:08.339
And she's got all the tabloids behind her.

555
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:11.759
And I just think that's interesting that they were saying that she

556
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.420
was the new Doctor Who companion before the production team had

557
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:16.079
even spoken to her.

558
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:19.440
And also auditioned, of course, as we know, now was Georgia

559
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.160
Moffat.

560
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:23.099
The daughter of Peter Davidson.

561
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.420
And she was apparently very successful.

562
00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:27.299
And I...

563
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:29.640
Stephen Woffett, the daughter of Peter Davidson and Stephen.

564
00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:32.940
That's right I also recall...

565
00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:33.960
She was the Pierce Brosnan.

566
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:37.859
I also recall, and I don't know if she was joking or not, but

567
00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:39.720
India Fisher said she put her name in.

568
00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:41.039
I don't know if she got an audition.

569
00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:42.359
I can't remember.

570
00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:45.660
Main thing I remember about India Fisher is she wanted us to find

571
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:48.119
a surfer husband and she kept screaming at us.

572
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:49.019
It's all very well.

573
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:53.339
You gaze liking me, but for God's sake, I'm in Sydney and I need a

574
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:54.180
surfer husband.

575
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.160
I need service.

576
00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:58.019
Kenneth Williams used to say.

577
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.259
I was really excited by Billy Piper's casting.

578
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:01.799
Me too.

579
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:06.000
Like, there were aspects of fandom that were not. and very vocal

580
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:06.359
about it.

581
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:08.700
How can a pop star possibly do this, but I kind of looked at it

582
00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:12.359
like, you know, if you're doing pop videos, you are acting like in

583
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:13.019
those.

584
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:16.200
And, you know, and I just kind of put it down to things like, you

585
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.440
know, when you see comics, comedians often make really good

586
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:20.160
dramatic actors.

587
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:23.039
And I just kind of went, you know, there's nothing to say that

588
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.059
she's not going to, you know, excel and of course, she's

589
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:27.480
fantastic.

590
00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:28.980
She knocks it out of the park.

591
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:31.799
How did we, how did, how did Russell Knight?

592
00:25:31.859 --> 00:25:32.339
That was the thing.

593
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.700
But wasn't she repositioning herself as an actor because after her

594
00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:39.420
pop career had sort of fizzled, then didn't she go away and do

595
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:44.700
courses and stuff and and dust was coming back reinventing her

596
00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:45.599
career as an actress?

597
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:46.680
Yes, absolutely.

598
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.859
And what's interesting is around the same time, Britney Spears

599
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:51.119
attempted to do the same thing.

600
00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:52.259
How did that go?

601
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.559
Well, she's got residency at Vegas.

602
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:57.960
So, you know, she went back to the singing and that was fine.

603
00:25:58.019 --> 00:26:03.599
But Billy was very savvy in that the roles she pursued.

604
00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:06.420
Now, okay, this is a leading role, but the series is not called

605
00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:07.079
Rose.

606
00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:08.400
The series is called Doctor Who.

607
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:13.019
Now, arguably with the new series, they do make it into co-leads.

608
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:16.259
But unlike a lot of American singers who try and get into acting

609
00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:18.900
and they're like, I'm going to headline my own movie straight off

610
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:23.039
the bat, Billy Piper was prepared for, no, I'll take smaller roles

611
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.240
and I'll take supporting roles.

612
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:26.099
I'll do the Canterbury Tales.

613
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.259
Oh my god, I've got Doctor Who.

614
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:32.519
Billy Piper didn't seem to push herself out there as, no, no, no, I

615
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:33.839
must be front and centre.

616
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:36.960
So I think what you're saying, Todd is right.

617
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:39.960
She learned her craft and that's possibly why she was more

618
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:43.019
successful than other singers turned actors.

619
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:43.799
Yeah.

620
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:45.960
And she's British.

621
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:50.400
It's a different ethos because the acting industry is different

622
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.700
there.

623
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.839
So, we've talked about the lead up to the show, but can we talk

624
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.619
about the show itself?

625
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.420
We better start talking about that.

626
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:03.779
Yeah.

627
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.339
So I think the 1st most striking thing about it is how much it

628
00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:10.200
borrows per to his iconography.

629
00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:14.339
So the opening titles are a version of Pertu, his original opening

630
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:18.779
titles with a red sort of swirly thing and the use of Futura, the

631
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:19.200
font.

632
00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:20.400
Yeah.

633
00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:25.079
And what he does, what Russell does, is creates a large regular

634
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:25.799
cast.

635
00:27:25.859 --> 00:27:28.500
And that's always a problem with Doctor Who, particularly, I think

636
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:32.279
in a modern TV environment that you essentially have 2 leads and

637
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:34.140
everyone else is new every week.

638
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.819
You just have a guest cast.

639
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:37.619
And I think that's hard to do.

640
00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:41.039
And I don't think it happens all that much in TV.

641
00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:46.619
And so Russell creates a sort of extended cast of characters.

642
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:48.119
So can we talk about them?

643
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:50.099
Jackie and Mickey.

644
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.640
Yeah.

645
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.319
So Jackie.

646
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:53.880
Todd.

647
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:58.559
Camille Cudry is just the B's knee.

648
00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:03.180
I will have to say that she is my favourite character in those 1st

649
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:04.019
2 years of the show.

650
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:08.460
Yeah, I just adore her and the way she pictures all the jokes

651
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:11.819
throughout the episode, but she cares for her daughter.

652
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:14.519
I believe they've, I haven't read it yet.

653
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:19.019
The new novelisation makes Jackie a bit more bit cheaper, perhaps

654
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:21.240
and not as good relationship with Rose.

655
00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:21.779
I don't know.

656
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.559
But I love the fact that in this, she's not unlikeable.

657
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:28.920
And she's so warm and but she's so real.

658
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.839
She's just, I just love her.

659
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.039
I love. can't say, you know.

660
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:34.740
She strikes me as someone who would never have been in Doctor Who

661
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:36.539
before, like someone's mom.

662
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:37.319
Do you know what I mean?

663
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:40.140
Doctor Who's previous attempts to do this, give us Meg Sealia, I

664
00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:40.380
think.

665
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.700
You know?

666
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:42.480
so true.

667
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:42.960
Yeah.

668
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:45.420
So, you know, like a sort of normal working class person.

669
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:49.740
Make it all sick. generally where we've gone with mother

670
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:50.279
characters.

671
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:55.259
And I guess the setting as well is where we last left off proper

672
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:58.200
Doctor Who was survival, where we're in a council estate in

673
00:28:58.200 --> 00:28:58.619
London.

674
00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:01.920
And so we're in contemporary London and we have this character who

675
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.700
could easily have been sort of from EastEnders or something with

676
00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:07.259
great comic timing.

677
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:09.359
And she's also someone who would never have watched Doctor Who in

678
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:10.019
a 1000000 years.

679
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:13.619
And so when she talks about what's going on, she talks like one of

680
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.799
the not we, she talks like a person at home who's just watching

681
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:21.119
this with all her talk of planet Earth and spacemen and stuff like

682
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:21.359
that.

683
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:23.039
She doesn't use the vocabulary.

684
00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:26.400
She does represent everybody else's mum, doesn't she, though?

685
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.059
Yeah, it's mum.

686
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:31.619
This is really made about Russell as a young person as a lady

687
00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:31.980
person.

688
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:36.180
Yeah, well, Russell and Rose share the same 1st name just about

689
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:36.960
don't they?

690
00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:38.519
I think that's deliberate.

691
00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:40.980
And he'd used the name tile before.

692
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.519
Vince, who was basically wrestling, queer as folk, his last name's

693
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:44.880
Tyler.

694
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:47.819
There are Tyler characters in Damaged Goods.

695
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:48.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

696
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:50.519
Bob and Rose.

697
00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:51.240
Yeah.

698
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:55.019
I think the only show he made that didn't have a Tyler was mine or

699
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:57.720
mine, which had a character called.

700
00:29:57.779 --> 00:29:58.859
Oh, okay.

701
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:02.519
Well, you see, like Rose is very definitely Russell, in the very

702
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.339
1st kind of Doctor Who annual or whatever the equivalent to that

703
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:10.259
was that year, Rose's birthday is given as 27th of April, which is

704
00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:14.400
the same day as Russell's, and mine, as it happens.

705
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:17.220
If you want to take a look at my Amazon wish list.

706
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.920
So she's very definitely him in the show, I think.

707
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:26.400
And I think that when he was a kid and he was watching Doctor Who

708
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.339
he always imagined he was Joe or he was Sarah.

709
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:30.720
No, exactly.

710
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:36.720
People often ask me why I cosplay as Doctor Who girls sometimes to

711
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.619
the point that one of the actresses I cosplayed at thought I was

712
00:30:40.619 --> 00:30:41.700
taking the Mick out of her.

713
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:43.559
But it's more that.

714
00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:44.160
Yeah.

715
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:44.880
Who?

716
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:46.859
Oh, no, I won't say.

717
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.019
I won't say because and yeah, it's a short list.

718
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:50.220
I've only done like 3 or four.

719
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.380
Eileen Wayne.

720
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:54.960
I was just going to say exactly.

721
00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:59.220
The greatest piece of miscasting is not bringing Eileen way back.

722
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:01.680
I'm thinking that I'll get Brendan to tell me off mic and then

723
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.579
I'll sneak into the show.

724
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.599
I'll tell you now.

725
00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:04.740
It was Daphne Ashbrook.

726
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.559
And you know, I think we've said that on the podcast before.

727
00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:09.599
I think it's because of a different mentality.

728
00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:11.220
And you were doing it in a wheelchair.

729
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:12.660
I mean, it was really offensive.

730
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.640
So many levels. calling everyone Julian.

731
00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:23.279
As a kid, I realise often you're not looking to be the doctor.

732
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:26.039
You don't want to be the doctor because you can't imagine being

733
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.680
the doctor because the doctor's this alien, but you can imagine

734
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:29.519
being the human.

735
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:33.059
Nice people want to be the companions and the rest of us want to

736
00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:33.839
be the doctors.

737
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:35.039
I always did doctor.

738
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:36.539
Companion who?

739
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:37.259
No idea.

740
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:40.500
No, I want to be I want always wanted to be a companion, but I had

741
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:41.640
the ability to regenerate.

742
00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:44.099
Oh, so you're river song.

743
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.720
Well we're getting ahead of ourselves.

744
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:47.039
You're Romana.

745
00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:48.059
You're Romana, darling.

746
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.500
Romana, darling.

747
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.519
Ramana, darling.

748
00:31:50.579 --> 00:31:52.799
I suppose it's a bit like the Rick and Morty fans who think

749
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:53.339
they're Rick.

750
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:53.940
Yeah.

751
00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:54.839
Yeah, they're not.

752
00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:56.279
They're Jerry.

753
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:57.059
They're Jerry.

754
00:31:57.660 --> 00:32:00.599
Camille gives the show what it needs.

755
00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.740
And it's something we talked about with the early Tom Baker era

756
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:07.380
because you've just had the unit era.

757
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.240
So every time you go back to Earth, you don't have to introduce a

758
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:13.380
whole bunch of new characters.

759
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.140
You introduce half a new cast because you've got the unit people.

760
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.039
Whereas I think we particularly talked about it in hand of fear.

761
00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:23.819
The doctor and Sarah come back to earth and it doesn't feel real

762
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:26.279
because we've got nothing to latch onto.

763
00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:28.140
Well, it is the hand of fear though.

764
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.599
It is also there, Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

765
00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:32.160
Why didn't they bring them back for the new series?

766
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:33.599
They were both alive when it started.

767
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:35.400
Any thoughts on that, Todd?

768
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:37.259
No comment.

769
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:44.640
But yeah, having Jackie and Mickey, it gives us that grounding and

770
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:50.160
it gives us that basis and and it gives us the alternative rose

771
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:50.819
could be living.

772
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:56.160
Because when we introduce companions in the old series, Very often

773
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.400
the alternative to being with the doctor is being killed.

774
00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:01.740
You know, the doctor saves something.

775
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.740
Whereas Rose's alternative here isn't dying.

776
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.920
It's just living a boring mundane life.

777
00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:11.339
And it raises the question, is that better?

778
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:13.920
Is that worse than the threat of death?

779
00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:17.880
I think, too, that there is a sense here.

780
00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:21.480
And the idea that the companion's an audience surrogate or an

781
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.240
audience identification figure isn't necessarily right.

782
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:28.019
But here it's the story where the doctor could land and take any

783
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:31.319
one of the members of the audience off with him.

784
00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:33.000
You know, she's from our world.

785
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.559
She lives a fairly ordering woman.

786
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:35.400
Could have been Camille.

787
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:37.380
Liner notes, pert we, and a penny.

788
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:38.519
Really?

789
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.160
If you want old home values.

790
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:44.579
And while we're on the regular cast, what about Mickey?

791
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.539
Mugsy.

792
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:47.940
Well, okay.

793
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.880
So I really loathed him in this episode when I 1st saw it.

794
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:55.619
I loathed his acting.

795
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:57.660
Richard's nodding his head, okay?

796
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:03.299
And I hated the performance, the character was just set up to be

797
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.480
this horrible cypher that you just...

798
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:08.039
You just thought he was a buffoon.

799
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:10.619
And the fact that Rose couldn't even tell the difference between a

800
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:14.519
plastic replica and the real thing in the car, just sort of, I

801
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.440
think, undermined the character.

802
00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:17.340
That's my opinion.

803
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.500
No, I think there's a lot to be said for that.

804
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.920
And I think it's, for me, it's, I feel it's a misstep or mistake.

805
00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:26.400
Having watched this only a few days ago.

806
00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:30.599
You know, there's there's a bit of the Mickey that we know at the

807
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.699
beginning, but you don't know him at the beginning.

808
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:34.440
Like there's just a little bit there.

809
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:37.679
You don't get enough of a sense of him before they turn him

810
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:38.760
into...

811
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.579
Just the way he goes, don't go rose the way he acts, that sort of

812
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:41.760
thing.

813
00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:44.760
It still annoys me.

814
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:49.860
But what I gathered out of this particular doing. was actually how

815
00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:54.539
fantastic he is as evil Mickey, knowing the Mickey that he

816
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:55.019
becomes.

817
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:57.900
And that performance with all the plastic and everything right, he

818
00:34:57.900 --> 00:34:59.639
is absolutely nailing it at that point.

819
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:01.380
Simon Cowell, really.

820
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:04.320
But I really, really enjoyed that this time.

821
00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:07.800
But I do think there are problems with his character through this

822
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.199
that just set him up for failure and not really liking it.

823
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:13.019
He's so emasculated, which I think is the unfair thing.

824
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.199
Peter, well, Davidson would say, what's then for the boys?

825
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:21.780
Yeah, and just, you know, the fact that he is so, I don't know

826
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:26.280
weak and sort of like scared and it's like really like, and so

827
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:28.860
they have to do a lot of, I don't know, rewriting or backpedalling

828
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:32.219
or in future episodes to try and get that character back.

829
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.260
And for me, it takes quite quite a few episodes.

830
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.079
Even later in the season when he's talking about that Delaney girl

831
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.679
like he's still like a whingeing whining thing at points.

832
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:42.179
It's like, come on, come on.

833
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.900
I want more because he is a good actor and by the end, you know.

834
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.840
You're wanting him to be there, you know?

835
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:52.380
I have to say that I think there probably is a deliberate arc in

836
00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:54.719
this 1st recording block because...

837
00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:55.139
Is it, though?

838
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:57.539
Because Todd, weren't you saying that he wasn't going to be in

839
00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:58.440
subsequent episodes?

840
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:01.260
Always going to be in the 1st three, apparently.

841
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:02.219
First three.

842
00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:03.420
The 1st 3 recorded.

843
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.840
So this aliens of London and World War three. that right, Brendan?

844
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.739
That's correct.

845
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.460
So the last we were officially going to see of him was when the

846
00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:16.320
doctor and Rose go off at the end of World War 3 and he's left

847
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.719
sitting on the bins, looking up at the sky, waiting for her to

848
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:19.079
come.

849
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:19.860
It's all about the bin.

850
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:21.840
But he's better in those episodes.

851
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:24.960
Oh, yes, they do stuff with his character where you kind of think

852
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:26.280
okay, you know, this is better.

853
00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:28.920
Don't want to jump ahead because you'll discuss that later on.

854
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.780
But maybe it's the director.

855
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.900
I think it's partly the director and I think there's a reason

856
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:36.539
Keith Bowick doesn't come back after these episodes.

857
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:41.039
He does he does direct very broadly, and, you know, we do have

858
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:45.900
that ridiculous Mickey Auton makeup job that Rose seems not to

859
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:49.320
notice, you know, and...

860
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:53.039
Possibly not, but it's difficult to find stuff up about this time

861
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:57.300
because it's only now 13 years later that the production team and

862
00:36:57.300 --> 00:36:59.760
actors are talking about the difficulties they faced on the job

863
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.500
because it was so tumultuous.

864
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:06.659
In terms of Noll, his star was on the rise because he was in RV to

865
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:06.900
St.

866
00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:13.019
Pet, and his scenes for Rose were mostly recorded in 5 days, they

867
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:15.659
had to fly him back from Thailand, where our Vita's own pet was

868
00:37:15.659 --> 00:37:20.039
being shot, shoot for 5 days, and then the Monday after that.

869
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.739
So he shot Monday to Friday, the Monday after that, he actually

870
00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:27.360
had the funeral of Pat Roach, who was an actor in Alvita's own pet

871
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:29.219
who had passed away suddenly during the shoot.

872
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:33.539
So I don't know if that feeds into Noll's performance at all

873
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:38.519
because he is so much better in the next time he appears, and then

874
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:39.780
he keeps getting better throughout.

875
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:44.760
But I think it's also the fact that no one really knew what they

876
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:45.179
were doing.

877
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.119
There's a great interview with Phil Collinson, who explains that 2

878
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:49.019
weeks into the shoot.

879
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:49.980
There were 3 weeks behind.

880
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:53.280
Yeah. in terms of what they were meant to be shooting, and that's

881
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.719
where Susie Liggett came on board as a production unit manager who

882
00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:58.980
later became producer.

883
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.219
So yeah, it was it was a tumultuous production, but I think you

884
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:06.539
can, as broad as Mickey has played in this story, You can begin to

885
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:10.440
see the seed of the braver character he will become.

886
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:15.659
Something I still find is very odd is there's an implication that

887
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:17.940
he soils himself in the nestine lair.

888
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:22.440
Yeah, which because when Rose finds him, he says, and she says, oh

889
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:23.039
you're stinking.

890
00:38:23.099 --> 00:38:25.019
And originally I thought, oh, that's the bin.

891
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.199
But at the end of the episode where they're stumbling out, he's

892
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.119
kind of walking bow-legged.

893
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:31.380
I think, yeah.

894
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.780
He's like RuPrech the Monkey Boy at that point.

895
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:37.739
It's really unfortunate And I do think I do want to blame Keith

896
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:38.280
Boke.

897
00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:39.059
I just do that?

898
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.599
I think he's not a very good one. you were the only one?

899
00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:44.460
No, I don't think I was.

900
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:47.639
And we'll get more of that later because some of the very earlier

901
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:52.380
scenes shot where in like World War 3 and they're astonishingly

902
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:52.800
poor.

903
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:55.860
But they do walk back from that stuff almost immediately.

904
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.800
So the bright saturated colours in roses flat.

905
00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:04.619
All of that sort of hyper real kind of children's TV look that he

906
00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:05.280
brings to it.

907
00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:08.579
Now, there are things about it that I like enormously, things like

908
00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:11.880
the montage at the very beginning, you know, the way that we get

909
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:15.179
the story of Rose's life to hold in a way that would just never

910
00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:17.820
ever have been possible in the original show.

911
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:20.820
And even, you know, people complained about the bin and the

912
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:22.260
burping bin and stuff like that.

913
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.079
But I think that's tremendously good.

914
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:28.019
And, you know, it...

915
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:28.739
Yep.

916
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.440
I don't think it's necessarily well realised, but I think it's a

917
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:32.099
really good idea.

918
00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:34.800
And I certainly remember walking down the street for weeks

919
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:38.880
afterwards feeling tentative about touching the tops of any bins.

920
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:40.980
And I certainly knew that there were 10 year olds that were

921
00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:41.579
feeling the same way.

922
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:45.719
Dear listener, can you feel the grimace on Todd's face at this

923
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:45.900
point?

924
00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:47.400
was Russell's idea?

925
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.559
In is just pathetic.

926
00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:50.699
I'm sorry.

927
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.559
But it's that kind of thing.

928
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:53.940
You know, it's the same thing.

929
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.519
And I think Russell is doing it quite deliberately and he will do

930
00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:58.079
it with the farting aliens as well.

931
00:39:58.139 --> 00:40:03.360
Don't get me started. is that he's doing stuff that hasn't been on

932
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.659
Doctor Who before, and he's doing things that don't sit well with

933
00:40:06.659 --> 00:40:09.840
finally ending up as TARDIS Wikia pages.

934
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:10.800
Do you know what I mean?

935
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:13.800
There was a whole heap of people who didn't like the last Jedi

936
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.500
because it contradicted some of their favourite Wookipedia

937
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:17.159
articles.

938
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:21.179
And I think that Russell, by doing that sort of stuff and the burp

939
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:27.599
joke, which occurs no less than 3 times in Return of the Jedi, is

940
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:32.820
a sort of signify that this is not just for people who have all of

941
00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:37.019
Peter Haning's, you know, coffee table books on their shelves, but

942
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:39.420
it is for the kids at home and for the adults as well.

943
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:42.900
And it's a sign that we're not going to be taking this show that

944
00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:43.500
seriously.

945
00:40:43.619 --> 00:40:45.599
Regarding the bin.

946
00:40:45.659 --> 00:40:48.659
I do wonder if that was a little bit of a tribute to the Dear

947
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:54.300
Departed Craig Hinton's novel, Synthespians, which was a BBC book

948
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:59.699
which preceded the new series, which dealt with a TV broadcaster

949
00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:02.159
in Deep Space, but all the actors are autons.

950
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:06.360
But also various other plastic things come to life, including in a

951
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:11.039
deleted scene, a murderous thallus, shall we say?

952
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:15.179
And, you know, Rose gets that line later, you know, the phone

953
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:17.219
lines, this, that, the breast implants.

954
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.699
I have to say that when I learned that the 1st episode was going

955
00:41:20.699 --> 00:41:24.840
to be about autons and that they were shooting in a street outside

956
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:28.860
a bridal shop and I sort of suddenly realised they'd be autons in

957
00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:29.699
bridal gowns.

958
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.199
I was so incredibly excited because they're all wearing sort of

959
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:39.719
really terrible 70s clothes in spearhead from space.

960
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:43.619
But having them in sort of active wear and bridal outfits.

961
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.380
And in fact, if you read the script, the scriptbook for season one

962
00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:47.579
is published.

963
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.460
And Russell writes the autons and they're not directed this way at

964
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:52.199
all, of course, because Keith.

965
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:57.719
He writes the autons as being very elegant and well dressed and

966
00:41:57.719 --> 00:41:59.340
that that's how they carry themselves.

967
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:03.659
Yeah, one thing Russell was particularly on happy with was the

968
00:42:03.659 --> 00:42:08.280
sort of very, very jerky robotic motion because he didn't want

969
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.440
people to think they were robots.

970
00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:13.139
He wanted people to think they were solid plastic and to move sort

971
00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:16.199
of slowly in the way the original series Autons did.

972
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:20.760
But, you know, I'm not going to harp on it, Keith, because of that

973
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.780
because that is the 1st thought you would go to, that these are

974
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:25.800
robots, you know.

975
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:27.780
And at this point, communication was difficult.

976
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:29.699
It is how the original autons move.

977
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:33.420
Maybe Keith is more of an underfan than anyone had realised.

978
00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:35.639
But they're not actually called autons, are they, at any point?

979
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:38.519
They only mentioned is the nesting consciousness.

980
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.440
They're credited as autons.

981
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:42.719
I think it's autons created by Robert Holmes in the closing

982
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:43.079
credit.

983
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:47.039
But yeah, I suppose I suppose they didn't want to introduce too

984
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:48.780
many space work.

985
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:49.619
Space Words.

986
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:54.360
Like, we've already got Sonic Screwdriver, TARDIS, nestine, um

987
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:58.980
anti-flashing, time war, proclamation, shadow proclamation.

988
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:03.239
It's one of the biggest strengths of this script is that he's not

989
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:08.159
giving us like the 1996 telly movie in the 1st minute, you know

990
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:12.059
Time Lords Master, Skyro, Daleks, regeneration, you know, it's not

991
00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:12.960
a list of things like that.

992
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:17.340
And it's, as I've said before, it's not aimed at the fans.

993
00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:19.739
You know, you want the general public to come in.

994
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.320
And I just think that's the right approach.

995
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:26.099
It's funny you should say that, though, because Lorraine Hegasy

996
00:43:26.099 --> 00:43:29.460
and Jane Tranter, who were the BBC controllers, who were really

997
00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:30.360
behind this project.

998
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:33.119
When Russell turned in the 1st script, one of them said, where's

999
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:33.539
the master?

1000
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:35.280
and one of them said, where's the Daleks?

1001
00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:38.340
You know, we need a big draw.

1002
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:41.579
And it was actually Julie Gardner who went into bat and said, no

1003
00:43:41.579 --> 00:43:43.860
he's the last of the time lords now, so we don't have to explain

1004
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:45.420
Gallifrey or anything like that.

1005
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.780
He's the last of his kind, so there's no danger of people running

1006
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:49.800
around in silly hats.

1007
00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:52.980
And as for Daleks, they're going to be halfway through to get bums

1008
00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:53.639
on seats again.

1009
00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:54.960
And everyone was happy.

1010
00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:58.199
Something I didn't mention earlier is that Michael Grade almost

1011
00:43:58.199 --> 00:43:58.679
killed it again.

1012
00:43:58.739 --> 00:43:59.400
Really?

1013
00:43:59.460 --> 00:43:59.940
What?

1014
00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:02.639
So he just does that in his sleep at this point.

1015
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:04.440
It's a reflex.

1016
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:08.219
He stumps his toe and cancels...

1017
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:13.199
No, that makes that internet pick of scowling rustle and scowling

1018
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:16.920
Steve, Michael Gray did a book signing all the more relevant

1019
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:17.340
doesn't it?

1020
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:20.940
So while it was in pre-production, Michael Grade had been

1021
00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:25.380
reappointed as BBC one controller.

1022
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.519
And Valiard.

1023
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:30.539
And so he appointed a new director general, Mark Thompson.

1024
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:33.960
Now, 1st of all, Michael Grade had been asked, you know, what do

1025
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:36.599
you think about Doctor Who coming back because, of course, you

1026
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:39.659
cancelled it in the 80s and his response was very diplomatic in

1027
00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:41.820
that, you know, pretty much I trust the people working at the

1028
00:44:41.820 --> 00:44:42.420
BBC.

1029
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.460
Otherwise, I wouldn't be in charge here.

1030
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.460
I am not directly responsible for commissioning programs.

1031
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.639
Doctor Who can come back so long as I don't have to watch it.

1032
00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:53.940
However, that wasn't very supportive.

1033
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.019
No, no.

1034
00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:59.219
However, he did appoint a new director general, Mark Thompson.

1035
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:03.119
And Mark Thompson was concerned, is there actually audience demand

1036
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:03.960
for Doctor Who?

1037
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.440
And the production team had commissioned a single report about

1038
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:12.780
audience demand with a very low appreciation for whether Doctor

1039
00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:13.619
Who should come back.

1040
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:15.119
Not people saying it shouldn't.

1041
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:16.199
They don't really care.

1042
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:21.900
So what Jane Trant did when he asked, is there any audience report

1043
00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:23.579
she said, no, we haven't done one.

1044
00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:28.500
And Julie Gardiner then said, and you know, we've sunk so much

1045
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:31.079
money into this that if we give it up, we're going to lose twice

1046
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:32.460
as much as if we carry on.

1047
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:34.320
I love these women.

1048
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:35.400
Yeah, me too.

1049
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:38.400
Reading, you know, reading this, Doctor Who, the complete history

1050
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:43.199
which gives, I'm not sponsored, which gives a great rundown.

1051
00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:47.099
There are so many women involved in bringing back Doctor Who.

1052
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:51.059
It feels like, in terms of the production side, the only men

1053
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:54.659
involved are Russell T. Davies and Mal Young, and latterly Phil

1054
00:45:54.659 --> 00:45:56.820
Collinson, and you've got Julie Gardin, you've got Lorraine

1055
00:45:56.820 --> 00:46:01.019
Heggesi, you've got Jane Tranter, and you have other senior women

1056
00:46:01.019 --> 00:46:04.980
at the BBC as well, who are all involved in bringing it back, and

1057
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:08.219
it seems to be half they want to bring back Doctor Who, and half

1058
00:46:08.219 --> 00:46:09.719
they want to with Russell T. Davies.

1059
00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:14.579
And those 2 desires seem intertwined.

1060
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.579
And, you know, Russell then has this five-year journey of bringing

1061
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:18.659
Doctor Who back to the screen.

1062
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:24.059
What I adore about this, as opposed to the 1996 telly movie, which

1063
00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:27.360
gets it so wrong, is the fact that obviously we come in with

1064
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:32.460
Rose's eyes, and the doctors introduced several minutes into the

1065
00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:33.480
actual sequence.

1066
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:37.500
And you've had the opening credits where there's a police box and

1067
00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:39.780
you see a little, the 1st time you see the doctor then in the

1068
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:42.239
background after that explosion, you see a little bit of a police

1069
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:43.260
box.

1070
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.079
Then the doctor goes away and comes back again and they have that

1071
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:49.619
the 2nd time and then they have their walk and then you see the

1072
00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:53.039
police box in full and he goes to the police box with the key

1073
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:53.340
right?

1074
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:55.800
She walks away and you hear a noise and then it's gone.

1075
00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:59.280
Then he's away again and she does her investigation.

1076
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:00.840
So you know a bit more about the doctor.

1077
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:03.000
So you're learning a little bit more about the doctor, like these

1078
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:04.139
little titbits.

1079
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:06.300
You're not trying to overwhelm the audience.

1080
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.619
And then, um, Plastic Mickey goes insane, and then you've got the

1081
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:11.460
full police box.

1082
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:12.840
He goes in, right?

1083
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:16.500
And as a classic series fan, like you're wanting her to go in to

1084
00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:17.099
see what it is.

1085
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:20.340
She goes in and you don't see it and you're going, 0 my goodness.

1086
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.739
Oh my goodness, you don't see inside and like, you know, I assume

1087
00:47:22.739 --> 00:47:24.539
for a new audience, it's like, well, what is this?

1088
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.840
And she goes around it and then you go in and see it, right?

1089
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:31.619
And the whole thing, like, and that's 27 minutes into the

1090
00:47:31.619 --> 00:47:31.980
episode.

1091
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:35.880
Which is, you know, it's not like...

1092
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:36.360
That's right.

1093
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:37.079
What the hell is this?

1094
00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:39.300
And I just think that's absolutely brilliant.

1095
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:43.019
But then it moves and he talks about being alien and TARDIS.

1096
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.300
You just get a little bit of information. don't get overload

1097
00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:45.719
dump.

1098
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.719
And it's moved to a different location, but you still don't see it

1099
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:49.860
appear, right?

1100
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:50.400
Yeah.

1101
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:55.380
And then at the end, of course, they get out of the exploding

1102
00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:57.000
nesting area.

1103
00:47:57.179 --> 00:47:59.880
Do we see it land then, I can't remember.

1104
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:04.019
We see it land for the 1st time, but she still hasn't seen it take

1105
00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:04.739
off or land.

1106
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:08.400
And at the end of the episode, obviously, you know, he disappears

1107
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:10.500
and she sees it disappear and reappear.

1108
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.639
And it just struck me like how many Doctor Who companions in the

1109
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:15.420
history of the show.

1110
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.400
They meet the doctor, right?

1111
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:20.219
And then they go into the TARDIS, but have they actually seen the

1112
00:48:20.219 --> 00:48:22.440
TARDIS appear or disappear?

1113
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:24.599
At this point, they're always inside the Tartars.

1114
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.000
They don't actually see that dematerialisation.

1115
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:31.920
And to me, it's often the last thing they see in their time with

1116
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.159
the doctor is actually, they finally see the demotrial centre, the

1117
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:37.619
TARDIS, at the end of their run, never.

1118
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:41.159
And I only just thought about this, like when I was watching it.

1119
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.380
I'm going, how many actually see that?

1120
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.900
They just meet the doctor and do you know what I'm saying?

1121
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:48.420
Yeah, yeah, they only finally see it disappear when it leaves

1122
00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:48.780
without me.

1123
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:49.679
When they're gone.

1124
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:52.380
I just got chills like thinking about that.

1125
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:53.639
God that's brilliant.

1126
00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:54.300
Yeah.

1127
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:59.099
I mean, they obviously are some that have, but also, as you say

1128
00:48:59.099 --> 00:49:03.659
because Rose is now seeing it for the 1st time, we're seeing it as

1129
00:49:03.659 --> 00:49:06.239
well, because we do see it leave the nestine thing.

1130
00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:07.679
But as well explosions are going on.

1131
00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:09.900
Mike Tucker is back doing models by the way.

1132
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.320
But because there's explosions going on, it's not until Rose

1133
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.519
watches it go and the doctor goes off for a few seconds and has 57

1134
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:18.599
box sets at big finish.

1135
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:21.900
Is that coming soon?

1136
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:22.800
That's coming soon.

1137
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.059
He's only said it once.

1138
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:26.639
Let's not startle him.

1139
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:32.760
But yeah, Rose then sees it come back at the same time, we do, and

1140
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:34.679
then we find out it travels in time.

1141
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.139
That gorgeous last line.

1142
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.960
But it's just brilliant.

1143
00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:41.880
I think it's just brilliant how these little bits all the way

1144
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:45.900
through enough for classic series fans to be going, ooh, but the

1145
00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:47.219
public not to be overwhelmed.

1146
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.559
And I just think it gets so right in this, you know?

1147
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:53.280
I also think it gets Rosa's arc right in a way that the tele movie

1148
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:53.760
doesn't.

1149
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:59.519
So we get to see how it might have played out if she decided not

1150
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.920
to go with a doctor because for a 2nd she doesn't.

1151
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:07.260
And then she's instantly so dejected, like really sells it

1152
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:09.900
completely and she's going back to her life of looking after her

1153
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:13.199
mother and looking after Mickey and just sort of generally being

1154
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.420
underappreciated and things like that.

1155
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:18.539
And then she gets this spectacular 2nd chance.

1156
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:20.880
And it's, it's wonderful.

1157
00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:22.019
Yes, yeah.

1158
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:22.739
It really is.

1159
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:26.340
Now, Richard, something you said earlier before we started

1160
00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:26.940
recording.

1161
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:31.860
This story is kind of remixed elements of what we've seen before.

1162
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:35.400
So why do you think it works in a way that the telly movie, which

1163
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:37.679
was also remixed elements, doesn't?

1164
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:42.000
Okay, apart from the fact that you can't just make a millange or a

1165
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.719
trifle, a mere foolish thing of rebooted elements.

1166
00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:49.739
I think it just works because it has a linear plot.

1167
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:51.059
It has consistency.

1168
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:52.139
It has expert.

1169
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:54.239
I think this should be the top of the list, expert

1170
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:55.619
characterisation and casting.

1171
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:00.119
And it's interesting that the tenure of this of us today is maybe

1172
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:01.619
the direction isn't that great.

1173
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:05.400
I thought it was really pacy and surprising and fun and terrific.

1174
00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:10.440
And reminded me actually of Sylvester's motorcycle stunts in his

1175
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:14.940
last stories because it felt that sort of thing but done with, you

1176
00:51:14.940 --> 00:51:16.019
can see the evident cash.

1177
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:20.820
It feels incredibly nostalgic, but oddly enough for a time, maybe

1178
00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:23.940
only 7 years before it was broadcast.

1179
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:29.159
It feels like it's nostalgic for the early Blair years, that where

1180
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:32.820
we are politically, and you know, because this is my shtick with

1181
00:51:32.820 --> 00:51:33.780
FTE.

1182
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:38.400
But politically, we're already looking back, not just as the show

1183
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.940
to the lovely golden times of when, you know, the country was

1184
00:51:41.940 --> 00:51:45.300
blacked out and people were only working 3 day weeks, but still, it

1185
00:51:45.300 --> 00:51:47.940
wasn't at almost so much better with Hovah's bread ads and all the

1186
00:51:47.940 --> 00:51:48.300
rest of it.

1187
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:51.900
But there's also just for that recent hope and maybe it's not too

1188
00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:55.320
late and maybe we just need to look at who we are and what we do

1189
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:55.860
so well.

1190
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.860
And I think really the impetus for the show and why it picked up.

1191
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:00.300
The timing was perfect.

1192
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:01.980
People were wanting.

1193
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:06.360
Well, just feeling that we still have a little bit of hope and we

1194
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:09.780
still have some impetus and things can be done, but it's still in

1195
00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:13.139
the way that Britain is even at its most forward thinking.

1196
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:15.480
It's still conservative in that it always looks to the past.

1197
00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:18.480
It is that London thing.

1198
00:52:18.539 --> 00:52:20.340
It's so London, this 1st episode.

1199
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.619
You've got the London eye, you've got London buses.

1200
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.320
You've got Westminster Bridge and...

1201
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:25.619
It was.

1202
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:28.260
Well, it was the original title, Fear of a Welsh planet, wasn't

1203
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:28.380
it?

1204
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:35.699
But it's also, it's also running, queer as folk, which Marigold

1205
00:52:35.699 --> 00:52:39.840
also did the music for, has so much running, like, and there's a

1206
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:40.679
theme to it.

1207
00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:43.139
You know, whenever the characters are running from place to

1208
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:43.500
place.

1209
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:44.579
There's a theme to it.

1210
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.559
And it's the 1st word that the doctor says.

1211
00:52:46.619 --> 00:52:51.239
And they spend the entire episode running and there's something so

1212
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:55.920
breathless and exciting and they're running through recognisable

1213
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:56.400
places.

1214
00:52:56.460 --> 00:52:58.500
They're not running through a sleepy English village.

1215
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.599
They're not running down a cardboard corridor.

1216
00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:04.199
They're running down Westminster Bridge with London landmarks in

1217
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:04.739
the background.

1218
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.320
London will become such a part of it.

1219
00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:11.340
It is something, you know, Britain is the most hip and interesting

1220
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:15.179
place in the world as far as Doctor Who is concerned or London

1221
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:16.019
itself is.

1222
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:19.559
And I think that that's, you know, a historical attitude that

1223
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:21.119
they're looking back onto.

1224
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:25.320
I think they were very much seeing that Britain had not gone in

1225
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:29.579
the way they'd hoped, and Gordon Brown casting his very thin and

1226
00:53:29.579 --> 00:53:30.659
pallid shadow.

1227
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.260
No one had confidence in him, and yet, looking back now, he looked

1228
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:37.980
actually like a man with, if not vision, he certainly was sturdy.

1229
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.159
He was the John Major of his times and offered more, but this was

1230
00:53:41.159 --> 00:53:42.780
not a Britain that would have talked about Brexit.

1231
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:43.320
No.

1232
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:43.739
No.

1233
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.260
This is not a story that would have talked about throwing

1234
00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:46.920
everything away.

1235
00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:51.119
This was a story about, what have we done in the past that was at

1236
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.940
its best and how we can use that to move on?

1237
00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:01.440
It's also extraordinary, how this revival led to other revivals or

1238
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:02.579
talk of other revivals.

1239
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:06.599
So it did lead to a revival of the Tomorrow people as an American

1240
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:07.380
co-production.

1241
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.739
It almost led to a revival of sapphire and steel.

1242
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:12.840
That was pitched.

1243
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:15.840
And this is still in development.

1244
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:19.139
There is a revival of the Avengers in development that's been

1245
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:23.280
talked about since 2005 from the director of Iron Man 3, which is

1246
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:26.579
a very, very stylish and very avengers-ish movie.

1247
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:28.199
Unset in the 60s.

1248
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:30.420
Well, you would want to hope so.

1249
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:35.099
But what is very interesting is that the time tunnel opening

1250
00:54:35.099 --> 00:54:39.599
sequence, of course, is terribly nostalgic for Doctor Who in the

1251
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:45.000
70s, the other idea was an Avengers style opening sequence with

1252
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.639
symbols and faces and what have you.

1253
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:51.539
But somewhere out there, there's sort of an intermediate phase of

1254
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:53.940
the time tunnel with Eccleston's face in it.

1255
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.079
The footage has never been released.

1256
00:54:55.139 --> 00:54:55.920
Love to see that.

1257
00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:56.880
Is it gurney?

1258
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:57.659
It was created.

1259
00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:58.619
I don't know.

1260
00:54:58.679 --> 00:54:59.639
It's never been.

1261
00:54:59.699 --> 00:55:01.559
And that's the thing.

1262
00:55:01.619 --> 00:55:05.699
This episode is shrouded still in so much mystery because we don't

1263
00:55:05.699 --> 00:55:06.960
have the deleted scenes.

1264
00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:10.739
They've never appeared on any DVD or Blu-ray edition. despite the

1265
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:11.460
fact they do exist.

1266
00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:15.719
And also, Eccleston, you know, has recently commented about

1267
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:20.699
directors right from the beginning not taking care of their

1268
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:22.559
supporting artistes.

1269
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:23.940
Crashing sofas.

1270
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:25.860
Yeah, well, that's my theory, right?

1271
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:30.059
There was as part of the Henrix explosion, Hendrix.

1272
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.440
No, that's a gin.

1273
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:35.699
There was as part of the Henriks explosion, a burning sofa that

1274
00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:38.460
was meant to fall onto the street and it was shot, and the

1275
00:55:38.460 --> 00:55:42.780
official line is that the visual effects supervisor Dave Houghton

1276
00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:46.440
wasn't happy with it, and so they composited in an explosion

1277
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:46.860
later.

1278
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:49.860
But to me, it's like, that still doesn't explain why you get rid

1279
00:55:49.860 --> 00:55:51.119
of the debris crashing down.

1280
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:56.639
And I just wonder if, from Eccleston's perspective, there wasn't

1281
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:59.699
due care taken in a dangerous stunt against extras.

1282
00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:03.119
And if Bowick kind of went, oh, you know, we're behind schedule

1283
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:04.199
we're just going to get on with it.

1284
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:10.980
That could have easily, um, annoyed Eccleston, who, He takes pride

1285
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:15.539
in whether you're the extra or whether you're the star, you're

1286
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:18.780
important to this production and, you know, he attributes that to

1287
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:20.699
his working class roots.

1288
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:22.679
Now, I don't know if that's true.

1289
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:24.119
That's me reading between the lines.

1290
00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:25.199
That's my thing, what I do.

1291
00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:31.440
But the fact that this year of Doctor Who is still shrouded in so

1292
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:35.519
much secrecy, it kind of mirrors what we're getting now in that

1293
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:39.000
Chris Chibnall and his team are being very careful to release very

1294
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:40.739
little information about their production.

1295
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:45.780
And Russell T. Davis was a master at releasing information.

1296
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:48.840
But it'd take you a few minutes to realise actually you didn't

1297
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:50.039
really know much at all.

1298
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:55.619
It was a great little piece that I think Dan Hogarth put together

1299
00:56:55.619 --> 00:57:00.239
or just episodes completely tied together with taxis standing on

1300
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:04.619
streets and people with outside supermarkets and bin liners and

1301
00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:05.219
such like.

1302
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:05.460
Yeah.

1303
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:08.820
I remember the 1st picture of Christopher Eccleston that escaped

1304
00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:13.260
from the set was from the end of World War 3 when he's walking

1305
00:57:13.260 --> 00:57:17.219
down a street and judging from the position and whatnot.

1306
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.800
It's the bit where he's telling Rose that Harriet Jones will bring

1307
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:21.059
in a golden age for Britain.

1308
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:24.059
Because there was a photo of Penelope Wilton like shouting to

1309
00:57:24.059 --> 00:57:24.300
people.

1310
00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:27.780
And Eccleston just wandering through the background, his mouth

1311
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:28.380
open.

1312
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:31.619
But for ages, aside from the official publicity, that was the only

1313
00:57:31.619 --> 00:57:33.179
shot we have him in action.

1314
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:36.059
And people kept compositing it onto DVD covers.

1315
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:40.559
I was astounded at one of those corner window TVI interviews that

1316
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:43.739
was loudly touted as, you know, the costume being revealed.

1317
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:44.460
No, it's not.

1318
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:45.539
He's just on his civvies.

1319
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:46.679
He's just walking off the street.

1320
00:57:46.739 --> 00:57:48.119
A scarf.

1321
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:49.440
Where's the stick of salary?

1322
00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:52.019
And the jaw-droppingness that is that the?

1323
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:52.920
No, is that the costume?

1324
00:57:52.980 --> 00:57:53.579
No, no.

1325
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:55.860
So how they reveal these things is very important.

1326
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.400
It was done poorly and I. I'm saying it's not a costume.

1327
00:57:59.460 --> 00:58:00.119
It's not a costume.

1328
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:03.300
It's not what the 80s became, you know, he could be wearing it

1329
00:58:03.300 --> 00:58:05.099
anywhere, which is exactly right.

1330
00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.719
So this production just ticks so many boxes correctly.

1331
00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:15.300
You know, um, and it feeds old series fans, it feeds those people

1332
00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:17.940
who aren't slightly familiar with the show back in the 70s like

1333
00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:19.619
with the autumns, they may remember it.

1334
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.320
It's ticking for new people to come in, making it very easy.

1335
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:26.639
There's just so many different areas that they are managing to

1336
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:27.420
hit.

1337
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:31.619
And it also, you know, sends up the fans with the whole, you know

1338
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:32.940
one of your nutters has arrived.

1339
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:38.159
Oh, it's a she, you know, a little not, you know, not to us, where

1340
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:41.940
it's a fun thing that if you know Doctor Who fandom, you know.

1341
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.780
Yeah, it's little things like that, which are little icing on the

1342
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:47.880
cake, I think, in terms of for some of it.

1343
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:52.980
Yeah, and with Clive sort of being a bit comedic and a bit fanish

1344
00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:56.460
when Rose leaves him in the original script anyway.

1345
00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:58.199
She doesn't just go straight back out to Mickey.

1346
00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:01.619
We actually see her walk out of the shed and Carolyn's there, um

1347
00:59:01.619 --> 00:59:04.139
wheeling along a load of bricks because Clive never does anything

1348
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:04.800
around the house.

1349
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.920
And they just have this moment where Rose says, I'm sorry, and

1350
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.780
Carolyn says, yeah, I know.

1351
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:14.280
But the thing, but the thing with Clive is, and with the whole

1352
00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:16.440
script, as much as there is comedy and action and that sort of

1353
00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.699
thing, there is one other element in this, in the fact that Clive

1354
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:24.539
dies, and Russell manages to introduce the fact that there is

1355
00:59:24.539 --> 00:59:29.760
danger and there is death there, and it's something that is real

1356
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.039
and there are consequences.

1357
00:59:53.099 --> 00:59:57.360
Well, dear listener, we're getting ready to run very, very slowly

1358
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:00.840
into the Tartar so that Christopher Eccleston can whisk us away to

1359
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:03.599
the Ear 5.5/apple/26.

1360
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.539
So do come back next week for the end of the world.

1361
01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:10.920
In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com

1362
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:14.699
where you'll find over 130 episodes covering our flight through

1363
01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:17.340
the entirety of the classic series.

1364
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.340
We're also flying through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts

1365
01:00:20.340 --> 01:00:22.380
and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1366
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:25.800
Over on Bondfinger, you can find our commentary podcasts on

1367
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:28.559
literally 100s of James Bond films.

1368
01:00:28.619 --> 01:00:32.219
That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and at

1369
01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:33.599
bondfingercast on Twitter.

1370
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:36.900
Including the 57 versions of Casino Royale.

1371
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:37.920
Yeah and counting.

1372
01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:42.179
So until next time, may you have an astonishingly successful night

1373
01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:45.059
next Saturday and wake up on Sunday morning to discover that

1374
01:00:45.059 --> 01:00:46.860
you're now the biggest thing on television.

1375
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.420
In a red hoodie. yes.

1376
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.519
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1377
01:00:50.699 --> 01:00:52.320
See you soon.

1378
01:00:52.380 --> 01:00:53.219
Bye.

1379
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:59.340
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan

1380
01:00:59.340 --> 01:01:02.760
Bottomley, Richard Stone, and Gay Games grappling champion, Brendan

1381
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:03.300
Jones.

1382
01:01:03.420 --> 01:01:04.500
He got the bronze.

1383
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.559
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1384
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:08.219
Orberg.

1385
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:12.059
This episode, Fear of a Welsh Planet, was recorded on the 27th of

1386
01:01:12.059 --> 01:01:15.239
May 2018 and released on the 26th of August.

1387
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:18.119
Here at FDE.

1388
01:01:18.179 --> 01:01:21.420
We'd like to congratulate friend of the podcast, Pete McTie, for

1389
01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:24.900
his gig as a writer on series 11 of Doctor Who, and to tell him

1390
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:27.719
that we look forward to seeing a remake of the massacre in the

1391
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:28.199
near future.

1392
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.159
Um, Rick Mile, was it Rick Mile?

1393
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:35.159
But Hugh Jack, not Hugh Jack.

1394
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:35.579
Huge.

1395
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:37.320
Huge Grant.

1396
01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:39.719
Hugh Grant was offered.

1397
01:01:39.780 --> 01:01:40.619
Huge grant.

1398
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:43.679
That's right, was offered the role and turned it down and has said

1399
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:44.760
in...

1400
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:46.320
Dishwasher?

1401
01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:47.519
No, that's the dog.

1402
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.420
Um, Pincho.

1403
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:52.019
Okay.

1404
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:52.800
Look, it's fine.

1405
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:53.940
The memory of Pink Chong.

1406
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.880
We get we get police cars and helicopters, it might.

1407
01:01:56.940 --> 01:01:59.639
Um, drugging.

1408
01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:01.739
So what were we were with?

1409
01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:02.760
Huge ground.

1410
01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:04.559
We will start with you, guys.

1411
01:02:04.619 --> 01:02:05.699
Just give it a say.

1412
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:06.960
It's all you darling.

1413
01:02:07.019 --> 01:02:09.059
So yep.

1414
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:10.380
I need to go to the toilet.

1415
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:11.099
We'll do it.

1416
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:11.940
Yeah, do it now.

1417
01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:14.400
I'll leave it on, leave it on.

1418
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:15.480
In fact, take it in.

1419
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:17.940
Can't be any worse.

1420
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:20.280
Great.

1421
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.559
Any noise did you now hear on this podcast are not me, people.

1422
01:02:25.619 --> 01:02:26.880
Tag.

1423
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:29.579
Well, none of us had even thought about that, so well done.

1424
01:02:33.059 --> 01:02:35.519
Yeah, I think that's a title.

1425
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:39.719
Yeah.

1426
01:02:41.219 --> 01:02:45.719
God It was so mature.

1427
01:02:45.780 --> 01:02:47.460
I'm 35 in October.

1428
01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:50.460
Same age as some.

1429
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:51.360
Me.

1430
01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:52.079
Barbara.

1431
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.360
As as Jackie Hill.

1432
01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:55.019
Jackie Hill.

1433
01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:56.159
Oh, she was actually...

1434
01:02:56.219 --> 01:02:58.800
Did did you see those photos of Jackie Hiller?

1435
01:02:58.860 --> 01:02:59.099
Yes.

1436
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:01.679
Oh, I put one through Colorised Bot.

1437
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:02.519
It did a very good job.

1438
01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:06.960
There's a Twitter account, colorised bot, and it uses algorithm.

1439
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:07.500
Still rude.

1440
01:03:07.619 --> 01:03:09.480
It uses algorithms.

1441
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:12.300
It colourizes the entire the entire lower area.

1442
01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:15.420
For short, short.

1443
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:18.119
Colonic colourisation.

1444
01:03:18.179 --> 01:03:19.019
Tag.

1445
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:23.099
Actually...

1446
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:27.179
When are we doing the old podcast?

1447
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:29.639
That's redo.

1448
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:30.960
When are we doing that?

1449
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:33.239
When are we doing the massacre too?

1450
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:35.280
Huguenot boogaloo.

1451
01:03:36.420 --> 01:03:38.699
Huganoo boogaloo.

1452
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:39.960
You can do boogaloo.