WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:29:04 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.539 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:39.539 --> 00:00:43.560 the only Doctor Who podcast, which has a wingspan of 50 feet and 3 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:45.299 blows fire from its nostrils. 4 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:46.259 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:47.280 I'm Todd. 6 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:48.179 I'm James. 7 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:50.640 We're 5000000000 years in the future. 8 00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:54.240 We've got canapes, cocktails, and several 1000000 gallons of 9 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:57.840 sunscreen, which means that we're ready to face the end of the 10 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:58.020 world. 11 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:14.159 So, James, apparently you're allowed on the podcast now. 12 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:15.540 Apparently. 13 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:17.519 Welcome James. 14 00:01:17.579 --> 00:01:18.599 Yeah, welcome. 15 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:19.260 This is great. 16 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:21.180 This is the 1st and last time. 17 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:24.120 Yes, that's right. very, very well behaved. 18 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:24.900 You won't be back. 19 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:29.760 So let's talk about this because this is a crucial episode in the 20 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.900 history of Doctor Who because, oh my god, we've actually had some 21 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:36.719 news since the last episode aired. 22 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:39.900 And that being that the doctor's leaving? 23 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.540 Yeah. already. 24 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:43.319 I know. 25 00:01:43.379 --> 00:01:45.780 It was heartbreaking at the time, don't you think? 26 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.560 I was really crushed by it because this is something we talked 27 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:52.680 about this last week about how incredibly excited we all were. 28 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:57.900 It's sort of makes you feel like, 0 my goodness, like change 29 00:01:57.900 --> 00:02:00.900 already, or is it going to jeopardise the future of the show 30 00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:04.920 really, you know, and we're only just getting an audience now. 31 00:02:04.980 --> 00:02:07.079 Well, they stick with it if somebody's already leaving. 32 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:10.500 Yeah, I mean, I was questioning whether it would actually be back 33 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:15.539 off the 2nd series, if it couldn't keep, I mean, it just, it just 34 00:02:15.539 --> 00:02:18.000 threw the entire sort of future of the show into kind of 35 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:18.479 question. 36 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:20.520 I mean, obviously that's not what happened. 37 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:26.400 And whatever people personally think of David Tennant, he made the 38 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.699 role his own and Yeah, became incredibly popular. 39 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:31.379 Had he been announced at this point? 40 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:32.819 No, I don't think so. 41 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.039 I think were there rumours? 42 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.460 Well, I think the smart money was on David Tennant because he'd 43 00:02:38.460 --> 00:02:45.900 been in RTD's Casanova and he actually had been with Mark Gatas in 44 00:02:45.900 --> 00:02:51.000 a live action version of the Quatermass experiment. 45 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:54.900 And I think that he knew about that then. 46 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:58.680 So I think he was kind of big and I don't think anyone was 47 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.139 particularly surprised when it was announced that it was going to 48 00:03:01.139 --> 00:03:01.560 be him. 49 00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:06.000 There's an in joke in the Quage Mass experiment remake, where I 50 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:09.780 think it's actually Geisha's character says, the doctor, I presume 51 00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:11.219 or something along those lines. 52 00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:12.120 Yeah. 53 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:17.280 So he'd found out, I think the day before it was made, because 54 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.639 it's filmed live. and and they slipped that line in there. 55 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:22.680 Right, right. interesting. 56 00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:24.000 It's very good, actually. 57 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:25.080 It is well worth a look. 58 00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:27.419 It's kind of amazing that they managed to do it. 59 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:31.439 And there was only one kind of line fluff in the entire sort of 90 60 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:33.000 minutes or however long it runs for. 61 00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:33.599 Wow. 62 00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:37.620 But of course, we've got Christopher here, and of course, this 63 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:40.560 starts off, you know, segueing straight away from the previous 64 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.319 episode, straight into this, and they're in the TARDIS. so 65 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:43.680 organic. 66 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:48.180 I just find it as a classic series fan, you know, all the pumping 67 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:51.300 of the Fiston thing and the turning of the stuff, like straight at 68 00:03:51.300 --> 00:03:54.300 the beginning of this episode, it's so different from the classic 69 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:58.620 series who, like the way in which he's dealing with the TARD. 70 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:02.639 Yeah, well, the last 3 doctors apart from mum, that one fateful 71 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:07.080 night, one night in the 1990s, had a TARDIS console that was just 72 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:09.300 buttons essentially and had one lever. 73 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:10.680 And so running around. 74 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:13.620 I mean, they did do a little bit of running around and business 75 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:14.580 with the console. 76 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:18.480 But here you've got an incredibly physical console and a really 77 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:22.800 physical kind of working class doctor who's pumping things and 78 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.019 using all sorts of physical effort. 79 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:28.980 He's got that bong on the console that he turns around. 80 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:31.259 I never thought of it like that. 81 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:33.060 Oh, dear. 82 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:35.040 It's actually a really funny scene. 83 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.740 And we will come back to it later because they do think that it 84 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:42.180 does talk a little bit about Russell T. Davies' conception of the 85 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:48.060 future and the way that he uses the future in Doctor Who. 86 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:56.160 But let's talk about the role of this episode, because this 87 00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:00.300 episode has an amazingly important job to do, which is to kind of 88 00:05:00.300 --> 00:05:07.500 convince us that this show is a going concern and to kind of show 89 00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:09.060 us what the show is capable of. 90 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:11.459 Yeah, it's so crucial. 91 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.500 I mean, I consider it to be Rose Part 2. 92 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:16.379 Because it just segues into it. 93 00:05:16.379 --> 00:05:20.279 And in the 1st 15 minutes, it's very much Rose dealing with a lot 94 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:23.279 of new things and the audience dealing with it as well. 95 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:26.879 But as we'll see in our discussions, I think it then changes 96 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:31.680 throughout the episode and suddenly to the doctor's story and and 97 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:34.800 the audience getting little bits of information before a final 98 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.339 sort of scene where there is a payoff to that. 99 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:40.560 But yes, you're very right. 100 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:42.779 This, I mean, this sets the scene of what the tone of the show's 101 00:05:42.779 --> 00:05:43.199 going to be like. 102 00:05:43.259 --> 00:05:46.500 And straight away, I mean, we're out of the TARDIS onto this 103 00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:46.980 platform. 104 00:05:47.220 --> 00:05:51.839 And I'm absolutely amazed at the visual effects, like straight up 105 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:56.519 with the earth and the sun and the platform that could never have 106 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:57.600 been done in original who. 107 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.920 You know, they spent most of the budget of series one on that one 108 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:02.399 episode. 109 00:06:02.459 --> 00:06:03.720 This episode. 110 00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:04.259 Yes. 111 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:05.459 I'm not surprised. 112 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.120 Well, it has a massive number of effect shots, like a huge, huge 113 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:09.420 number. 114 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:13.079 Slightly over 200 special effect shots in that episode. 115 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:16.920 It was, we need to throw everything and the kitchen sink at this 116 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:21.120 to sell how Doctor Who is going to look now. 117 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:24.060 Uh, you know, this is Doctor Who. 118 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:28.620 This is not the creaky old cardboard set show that you saw when 119 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:31.019 you were a kid back in the 1970s. 120 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:32.220 This is big. 121 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.000 There's a very definite attempt to ground this season on Earth. 122 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:39.480 And a lot of fanboys, you know, complained that we never left 123 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:42.779 Earth this season and there weren't any alien planets. 124 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:43.860 We were all around Earth. 125 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:48.420 And I think Russell T. Davies was afraid of Doctor Who's 126 00:06:48.420 --> 00:06:51.779 reputation as being a bunch of stuff that happens in space 127 00:06:51.779 --> 00:06:52.800 corridors. 128 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:57.360 And so the 1st time that he goes to the future, he takes us to a 129 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:00.480 beautiful kind of, what's the location called? 130 00:07:00.540 --> 00:07:01.740 Platform one. 131 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:06.600 No, but I mean, it's like a hotel in Cardiff or something. 132 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:07.560 It's temple. 133 00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:09.839 Yeah, it's a temple and it's used over and over again. 134 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:12.899 You see it all the time in Doctor Who, even in the Moffatt era. 135 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:14.639 This location comes back. 136 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:20.399 But it is incredibly beautiful and, you know, impressive looking. 137 00:07:20.459 --> 00:07:24.360 And because we've got to sell rose's kind of dislocation about 138 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:29.519 being in the future, it throws just heaps and heaps of ridiculous 139 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:30.899 aliens at us. 140 00:07:30.899 --> 00:07:33.779 And they're not just men in suits, although there's plenty of men 141 00:07:33.779 --> 00:07:37.199 in suits, but there's, you know, the face of Bo, who's in a giant 142 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:41.279 big tank, and then you've got Jimmy V as the mocks of Balhoon, and 143 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.699 they're all sort of strange, odd looking aliens. 144 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:49.079 And when they're introduced, none of them are like Sontarans or 145 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:49.860 Cybermen. 146 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:51.720 Like they're not from a particular alien race. 147 00:07:51.779 --> 00:07:57.779 They're from financial family 7 or, you know, from a company or a 148 00:07:57.779 --> 00:08:00.060 family or a forest. 149 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.300 You know, they're they're not just sort of generic alien races 150 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:04.620 from the planet Zog. 151 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.639 They're strange and sort of incomprehensible, even, I think, to 152 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:09.959 people who've watched Doctor Who before. 153 00:08:10.019 --> 00:08:11.339 It does your head in. 154 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:11.879 It really does. 155 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:13.800 I sit there going, what does that actually mean? 156 00:08:13.860 --> 00:08:16.980 But at the same time, I'm sort of laughing at the names that have 157 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:19.319 been thrown at me, like they bring a smile to my face. 158 00:08:19.379 --> 00:08:20.040 Yeah. 159 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:23.879 I think it is really quite significant that the steward is the 1st 160 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:29.519 alien that we actually see as classic series fans since 1989. 161 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:34.019 Last week we had the nesting consciousness with the plastic autons 162 00:08:34.019 --> 00:08:36.600 but the classic series fans, that's something that we know. 163 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:38.460 And they're not characters. 164 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:39.179 They't speak or anything. 165 00:08:39.299 --> 00:08:40.200 No, that's right. 166 00:08:40.259 --> 00:08:43.200 Whereas here, he is the 1st real alien. 167 00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:47.100 And then Rose is suddenly confronted with this litany of different 168 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:48.360 looking aliens. 169 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:52.379 Yeah, and the audience is having to deal with this as well. 170 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.179 I think it's a wonderful scene. 171 00:08:54.299 --> 00:08:58.500 It's comedic, but at the same time, you also have Christopher or 172 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:02.039 the doctor being introduced to these, these aliens and how he 173 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.799 interacts and Rose is watching that and you're what. 174 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:07.620 I mean, when I was rewatching this, I'm watching her reactions to 175 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:11.100 him and his reactions to her, it's quite, it's very cleverly 176 00:09:11.100 --> 00:09:14.639 written, and also to intimacy that the doctor has with Jade or the 177 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:18.659 intimacy that she shows back, and seeing Rose's reaction to that. 178 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.639 So Jabe says she's from, um, she's descended from the planet below 179 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.299 and she's a direct descendant of the tropical rainforest. 180 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.659 She's a village in South London. 181 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:32.279 Yeah, it's a real place. 182 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:34.019 It's not a sort of crazy planet. 183 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.019 Yeah, until I lived in London, I had no idea. 184 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.720 It was just like, oh, that's a funny sounding name. 185 00:09:39.899 --> 00:09:43.080 But no, it's literally she's from South London. 186 00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:44.940 It's trerendous. 187 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.779 And, you know, she's one of many races that have evolved on the 188 00:09:48.779 --> 00:09:49.860 surface of the planet. 189 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.860 And you've got to think that that's a reference to the Silurians 190 00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:56.519 which are, you know, yet another race that evolved on earth. 191 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.960 So humans, Silurians, trees, all of them reached sentience and 192 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.740 then sort of developed spaceships and, you know, headed off 193 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:05.039 world. 194 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:08.580 Even those bird head creatures that appear, what's her name? 195 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:09.419 Mrs. what is it? 196 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:11.519 Mr. Mrs. Pacoo, is that there? 197 00:10:17.580 --> 00:10:21.539 I really think it's very clever, the way the way that whole scene 198 00:10:21.539 --> 00:10:25.139 is set up and then, you know, then Rose does have a moment and she 199 00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:26.820 has to leave the situation. 200 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:30.179 And that's really well told using something that we've never 201 00:10:30.179 --> 00:10:34.320 actually seen in Doctor Who before, which is the use of tainted 202 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:40.139 love, which whose lyrics actually tell us what Rose is feeling, and 203 00:10:40.139 --> 00:10:41.580 she has to get away. 204 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.419 You know, she is overwhelmed by sort of culture shock. 205 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.659 In a way that we probably are as well, the way you were talking 206 00:10:48.659 --> 00:10:51.299 about your reaction to all these aliens, Todd. 207 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:53.879 I mean, they're sort of funny, but they're incomprehensible and 208 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:55.440 they're nothing that we've ever seen before. 209 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:00.779 And that means that we're experiencing a kind of disorientation 210 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:02.159 the same way that rose is. 211 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:06.539 You are very overwhelmed by lots of things and things have been 212 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:07.080 thrown at you. 213 00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:10.259 Like, we've already had at this point, the introduction of psychic 214 00:11:10.259 --> 00:11:10.679 paper. 215 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.620 And it's a very subtle introduction. 216 00:11:13.740 --> 00:11:17.279 It's something that as a classic series fan, you kind of go, well 217 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.740 how are they going to do these 45 minute episodes, because in the 218 00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:22.500 original series, the doctor turns up, gets accused of something 219 00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:26.279 it's put in jail, a cell, a dungeon, and then has to spend time 220 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:27.539 breaking out and proving himself. 221 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.240 The middle part of the 4 parter. 222 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:31.980 Or even the 1st episode, James. 223 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:35.279 Whereas here it's like, okay, we've got our in. 224 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:38.039 We can get into the story and we can be whoever we need to be 225 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:41.460 which I think is just brilliant and it's just done quickly. 226 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:45.720 It's over with, but I'm processing that going, oh, oh, oh. 227 00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:51.000 And then when Rose leaves that scene, Jade scans the doctor. 228 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.779 And she's looking at her little device going, this is impossible. 229 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:57.960 As a classic series of stands, I'm going, well, I know why it's 230 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.379 impossible because you're a timelord, but do new series fans 231 00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:04.019 really, do you pick up on what's on that little scanner and what's 232 00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:04.320 going on? 233 00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:07.740 It's just this, it just seems, it seems, well, there's something 234 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.000 about the doctor, you know? 235 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:10.559 And then we have a little break. 236 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:14.639 Where we're trying to process all this stuff, but it sort of just 237 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:19.799 it goes from being really rushed to rose talking to Raffello. 238 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:20.460 Is that... 239 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:23.039 And wasn't that scene added later or am I... 240 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:27.539 The Rafallo scene was was a late edition to the script because it 241 00:12:27.539 --> 00:12:28.860 was underrunning, yes. 242 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.639 But it's so crucial because it just gives us time to process. 243 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:37.080 Rose is talking to a real person in this environment, finding out 244 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:38.580 that this real person does real things. 245 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.379 Yeah, she's a plumber. 246 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:41.399 We still have plumbers in the future. 247 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:42.299 That's right. 248 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.700 And I just really love that connection. 249 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:49.019 Of course, it's the kiss of death because in the last episode 250 00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:52.740 Clive only interacted with Rose, not the doctor, and he got killed 251 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:53.159 off. 252 00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:56.879 And here again, this character only interacts with Rose and, well 253 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.000 she's gone, you know, moments later. 254 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:02.639 Gee, I'm really worried about Gwyneth next week. 255 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.100 But she does get to interact with the doctor, but it's sort of 256 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:09.059 it's setting a precedence. 257 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.659 But those characters die so pointlessly as well. 258 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:15.000 You know, they just die off screen. 259 00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:18.179 But of like, from the point of view of the lead characters. 260 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:21.419 They die without any lodge of that. 261 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:25.799 I think that that is a really great economical scene that sells 262 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:27.059 the threat really early. 263 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.179 Like, we don't really know what happens to Rafallo. 264 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:34.799 But she's very funny and very sweet and very human and super 265 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:35.639 likeable. 266 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.779 And it's interesting that they cast a woman to play that part. 267 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:40.860 I think that's really good. 268 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:45.059 But it does what Doctor Who does. 269 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.820 You know, it's what Clive said in the 1st episode, like death and 270 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:51.179 destruction follows him and that is a feature of Doctor Who. 271 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:55.740 And it's reinforcing that to the new audience, you know, that, as 272 00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.259 you said, death and destruction do follow the doctor even when 273 00:13:58.259 --> 00:13:58.919 he's not around. 274 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:01.740 It influences what events are taking place. 275 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:07.200 And that builds and builds over the next 9 seasons. 276 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:12.539 And and sort of reaches its apotheosis that last year's Christmas 277 00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:13.080 special. 278 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:18.840 The doctor being in someone's life is, is, is kind of a death 279 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:23.700 sentence. is the way Moffatt tends to have sort of aimed 280 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:24.419 towards... 281 00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:26.639 Yeah, I think Moffatt... 282 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:28.980 You know, Russell does interrogate that a little bit later on in 283 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:32.220 his in his run, but I do think that that is something that Moffatt 284 00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:33.600 really kind of plays with. 285 00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:38.340 And, you know, I think we also do need the alternative story which 286 00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:43.679 does happen, which is that the doctor is called the doctor because 287 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:45.000 he makes people's lives better. 288 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:47.220 Which is what they're reaching for. 289 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:51.960 But but they're doing it by going, oh, well, look at all this 290 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.779 death and destruction, but he, you know, he's trying. 291 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:55.200 Yeah. 292 00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:59.039 But we then get another scene, which I just think is so crucial. 293 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:01.500 And that is the doctor and rose. 294 00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:06.539 Having an art, well, she is, you know, questioning why, who are 295 00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:06.779 you? 296 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:07.679 Why am I here? 297 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:08.700 What's going on? 298 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:12.600 They have one of their arguments, and I think they have 299 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:13.559 disagreement, I should say. 300 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:15.480 And they have it in this episode and they have it in the next 301 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.879 episode as well, where they they argue about something. 302 00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:20.940 It's really interesting to see their dynamic working through that 303 00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:21.899 process. 304 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.740 But it's so, it's so interesting to me here again. 305 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:27.960 Rose is making it all about her. 306 00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:29.340 She wants to know about the doctor. 307 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.980 She wants to know what's going on her feelings. 308 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.639 The doctor is not ready to give her certain information at this 309 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:35.940 point. 310 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.320 He can only go so far, but, you know, he has to connect her with 311 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:41.039 Jackie. 312 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:43.860 You know, he's we're getting fed a bit of information. 313 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:45.120 Again very cleverly. 314 00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:49.200 It's explained how everybody speaks English. 315 00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:52.440 Another thing that's not really dealt in the classic series except 316 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:53.580 for once with Sarah. 317 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:58.080 But I never thought of it like it invades your head and is not 318 00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:58.740 given permission. 319 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:03.000 Like, it's, again, a very clever thing from Russell, it really 320 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.379 questions for those of us who are original series fans, how 321 00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:11.580 preconceptions or what we believe to be the show. 322 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.100 So it's like a really, it makes a really interesting point about 323 00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:14.580 consent. 324 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:15.419 Yeah. 325 00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:22.919 And and whether Rose is a character really consented to what like 326 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:24.240 is happening to her life. 327 00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:28.019 She's jumped into it without all of the, all of the information 328 00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:30.840 that she necessarily needs. 329 00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:33.840 Yeah, well, I mean, that's what that whole thing is about, isn't 330 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:34.019 it? 331 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.919 Like it's, she even says to Raffallo that she didn't know what 332 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:38.580 she's doing. 333 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.399 She's jumped into this thing with a stranger, she doesn't know who 334 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:41.820 he is. 335 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.360 And there's a sense in which she goes on the attack. 336 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:49.019 Like when she tells the doctor, like demands to know where he's 337 00:16:49.019 --> 00:16:55.200 from, and he sort of accuses her in some ways of being racist, you 338 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.759 know, the deep south line. 339 00:16:56.820 --> 00:17:00.779 But that aggressively asking someone what their background is, is 340 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:04.259 kind of impolite in a sort of normal human context. 341 00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:05.880 Especially if you're British. 342 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:06.900 Yeah, yeah. 343 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:12.660 And so, and so, um, she backs off and they do repair it, but they 344 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:16.200 repair it in a nice subtle way, and it is what you said, Todd 345 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.380 where he fixes her phone so that she can speak to Jackie. 346 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.220 Did you notice that that that's actually a flashback that she's 347 00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:26.279 ringing Jackie before Hendrix explodes? 348 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:30.960 Yes, I will say that because I was watching it going, like, is 349 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.960 this even Jackie's flat with those trees outside and I'm going 350 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:39.000 like, is this set before the events of Rose because, you know, in 351 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.759 a couple of episodes time, like she's never gone back after the 352 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:42.480 events of Rose. 353 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:45.779 Like, so it must be before that. 354 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.180 So I was trying to place that. like I... 355 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.480 Well, I think that Jackie actually says that she wants Rose to put 356 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:55.500 some money into the lottery syndicate, which is run by Wilson 357 00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:59.759 which is, you know, the very, very 1st time that we see Rose last 358 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:00.119 episode. 359 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:04.079 So I think it is explicitly like the Wednesday before or something 360 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.500 like that. 361 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.599 I've got a big spot on my face. 362 00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:07.440 That's fantastic. 363 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.059 I hadn't really picked that up. 364 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.779 And it's just a clever sort of subtle little throwaway that you 365 00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:16.920 just, unless you're really listening to the lies, you don't get. 366 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:18.779 But it doesn't matter if you don't get it. 367 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.519 But it's also to the fact that we're speaking to one of the semi 368 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:23.819 regulars as well. 369 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.599 We haven't quit completely detached from the earth that we know. 370 00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:31.559 So it's also sending out this signal that those characters can 371 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:36.779 still be at least Jackie or whatever can be involved in a small 372 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:41.759 way, but not just in space away from the earth that we know. 373 00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:51.960 I do find it intriguing that this is one episode where there's not 374 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.700 a significant other than the doctor male in the cast. 375 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.880 If you look at this season, next week we're going to have Simon 376 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.819 Callow as Charles Dickens. 377 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:03.359 Thank you. 378 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:07.019 Then we've got a two-parter where Mickey is back. 379 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.559 Then we've got the companion that ever was in 2 episodes. 380 00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:14.220 Then we've got Rose's dad, and then we've got Captain Jack or 381 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:15.240 Mickey for the rest of the season. 382 00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:16.019 Right. 383 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:19.559 So this is the one episode where we don't have another supporting 384 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:20.220 male character. 385 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.880 Yeah, we've got the steward, but they kill him quite quickly and 386 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.700 he's more of a comedy performance than an actual character. 387 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.359 And I think that's important because we've got to start focussing 388 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:30.960 on the doctor. 389 00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:34.200 And that scene, going back to that scene with Rose and the 390 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:34.500 doctor. 391 00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:38.039 There are questions there, and you want those questions answered 392 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.400 but we, like Rose, have not earned the right to those answers as 393 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:42.779 yet. 394 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.799 And that will suddenly, you know, play out throughout the 395 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.099 episode. 396 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:52.559 The doctor's relationship with Jade. is beautiful. 397 00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:53.460 Yeah. 398 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:54.660 She's terrific. 399 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:55.680 Has she been back? 400 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:59.400 Yasmin Bannerman, who plays Dana in the big finish audios. 401 00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:05.220 Is that right Oh, and she is fantastic as Dana in Blake 7. 402 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.519 I don't I don't know if she's been back to Doctor Who? 403 00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.640 No, not in the TV series. 404 00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:19.259 Big finish has just brought her back as James's... 405 00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:21.000 Clone... 406 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:21.720 Sapling? 407 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.720 I'm surprised there isn't a Jab box set, actually. 408 00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:28.740 In their new spinoff series, New Earth. 409 00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:30.779 Oh, Tales from New Earth. 410 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.000 But I'm surprised that those trees have not been back to Doctor 411 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:36.539 Who. 412 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.019 We've had trees in that, what's that horrible Christmas special? 413 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.039 The Andrazani one. 414 00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:42.599 The Doctor the Widow and the Wardrobe. 415 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.279 Yeah, in the forest of the night. 416 00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:48.599 And then we've had tree character in that wood episode with 417 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.799 Capaldi and Pearl Mackie, you know, yeah, that's terrible. 418 00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:53.460 Knock knock. 419 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.980 But she's such a great character. 420 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.220 They have some wonderful moments and she's so intimate with the 421 00:20:59.220 --> 00:20:59.640 doctor. 422 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:04.319 Like, just her concern over him, like, and you know there's more 423 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.319 there when she puts her hand on his arm. 424 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:12.000 And the tears that Christopher Eccleston gives in his eyes, like 425 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.319 at that moment when she talks about his race or being the last of 426 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:16.920 his kind. 427 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:20.039 I can't remember the exact words, but I'm just thinking, 0 my 428 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:20.400 goodness. 429 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:24.359 I still tear up in that scene, even watching it in preparation for 430 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:24.599 this. 431 00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:28.740 And I remember at the time thinking that that's a difference 432 00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:32.339 between the new series and the classic series... 433 00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:34.859 Is that the 1st time we've ever actually seen the character cry? 434 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:36.059 The doctor. 435 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:37.980 Possibly, yeah. 436 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:42.720 It's certainly the 1st time he has the same kind of interiority as 437 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.880 another... 438 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:48.180 Yeah, it's a real human and it is really, really good. 439 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:54.660 And it also shows that the doctor is hiding this the whole time. 440 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.319 And we saw that in the fight with Rose, where he just says, all 441 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.259 that matters is the hero now, and that's me. 442 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.819 And Jabe says, you know, maybe someone seeks excitement or danger 443 00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:08.759 or something when that's all he has left. 444 00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:13.200 Yeah, and the tears thing, he instantly pulls himself together and 445 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:18.299 gets on with the adventure, which just we see the mask go back on 446 00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:19.799 almost immediately. 447 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:26.819 That character, just the way she connects with the doctor, the 448 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:27.900 intimacy of it. 449 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.859 And he doesn't, in their initial meeting, he doesn't, he sort of 450 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:33.539 flirts with it, but he doesn't realise he's doing it. 451 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.500 But she trusts him and ultimately she makes the ultimate 452 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:38.039 sacrifice. 453 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.619 That sequence where she burns in the background as he's trying to 454 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:48.539 save the platform is just for me anyway, heartbreaking that she 455 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:50.940 you know, and it's the music. 456 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:15.960 So, music is now playing such a huge part of this selling the 457 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:17.940 emotion of what's going on. 458 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.859 It's modern television. 459 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.859 Yeah, there were a lot of people who complained about it, you know 460 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:26.099 who said, oh, well, here's Murray telling us how to feel and how 461 00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:27.420 to be a motive. 462 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.420 But that's what music is for. 463 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:35.279 That's a common complaint of all grumpy old men who watch 464 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.700 television these days is that you're telling me how to feel 465 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:39.359 constantly. 466 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.839 But I mean, that's what that's what drama is supposed to do. 467 00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:45.000 We could go back to Aristotle for that. 468 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:49.500 You know, we meant to feel in a particular way, and we now have a 469 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:54.599 massive orchestra and a talented composer, and that's a cinematic 470 00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:55.619 technique as well. 471 00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.839 I mean, that's one of the reasons why we continue to love Star 472 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:04.920 Wars, even after it's had so many misses, is that the music is 473 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:06.180 always so great. 474 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:11.339 I actually found that the mix on the Blu-rays was kind of 475 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:11.819 strange. 476 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:17.220 The mix on the 1st few seasons of Doctor Who is strange, right? 477 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.500 Like, you know, like there was like music. 478 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.680 Yes, we've got a great composer, music, music, music, music, music 479 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:24.539 and then they don't get it right in the mix. 480 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:30.000 I thought that at the time when I was watching, I was just like, oh 481 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:30.839 this is jarring. 482 00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:36.059 Like, I mean, I love Marigold's music. for Doctor Who, but it, in 483 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:39.180 those 1st few seasons, it just drowns the production. 484 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:45.359 There are whole swathes of rose where you're looking at the scene 485 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.339 and you're going, what are they saying? 486 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:48.059 I can't hear them. 487 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.119 You don't think it's just that we were all quite old? 488 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:52.740 By the time you watched it. 489 00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:53.819 Wow. 490 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:55.079 Oh, you weren't. 491 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:56.940 No, you weren't. 492 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.259 Oh, no, what? 493 00:24:58.259 --> 00:24:59.940 Like dear Brendan, listeners. 494 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.500 James is a decade younger than the rest of us, at least. 495 00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:22.980 Yeah, but having a talent composer, Russell is still willing to go 496 00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:27.599 with modern music, and I put that in quotes, like the iPod will 497 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.839 play toxic by Britney Spears, that classic ballad. 498 00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:35.700 Like any, I love the fact that it's, it's a modern music track for 499 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:38.519 the time, but he plays with the humour of it. 500 00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:40.140 Like, they get it wrong. 501 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.460 Well, in fact, Cassandra quotes burn baby burn as well. 502 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.640 So this is a future, 5000000000 years into the future. 503 00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:52.259 The only earth music that survives is disco and you've got to 504 00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:56.160 think that's that's a pretty impressive conception of the future. 505 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:59.339 And in fact, I love the conception of the future here because like 506 00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:02.519 there's new numbers that have been invented, you know, Apple and 507 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:03.900 Cup are now numbers. 508 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:09.240 And I think that stuff is really funny and it draws from 509 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:12.359 Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I think. 510 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:16.019 And it also plays with the idea. 511 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.319 I think it kind of sells the idea that the future in Doctor Who 512 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:23.819 has always been slightly ridiculous and it kind of leans into that 513 00:26:23.819 --> 00:26:25.980 and lampshades that. 514 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.299 And Doctor Who was sort of always a cheesy program where people in 515 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:33.539 rubber monster suits would stand around in corridors talking to 516 00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:34.079 one another. 517 00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:39.180 And Russell knows that that's how people or just, you know, the 518 00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:41.880 ordinary TV viewer has conceived it. 519 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.079 And he leans into it. 520 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:44.400 And I think it's really successful. 521 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:49.259 This is a massively, massively successful season of television. 522 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:55.619 And I think it knows how to talk to a general audience in a way 523 00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:59.160 that the show really hadn't for, you know, quite a considerable 524 00:26:59.160 --> 00:26:59.759 amount of time. 525 00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:04.740 It does it with humour. with throwaway lines that aren't crucial 526 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:08.940 to the plot, so you can pick and choose what you get out of it. 527 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.880 But for the casual view it, you can still follow what's going on 528 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.279 after something's thrown at you. 529 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:17.579 I love the fact that Raffello is from, not even from a planet. 530 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:20.279 It's from some other thing and I'm going, what the hell does that 531 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:20.460 mean? 532 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.140 You've just blown my mind. 533 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:23.759 You've blown my mind. 534 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.440 Like everybody has to come from a planet. 535 00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:26.759 No, I just come from... 536 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:27.839 The jacket brocade. 537 00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:29.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. whatever that might happen to me. 538 00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:33.359 It's elusive affiliation around Scarlet Junction. 539 00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:37.079 Well, there's the silver devastation gets its 1st name call here 540 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:37.440 too. 541 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:39.900 No one seems to be from our planet. 542 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.980 And I think that that's a really good thing because it puts the 543 00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:48.059 old fans and the new fans, you know, in the same footing with 544 00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:49.619 respect to what the universe is like. 545 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:54.599 And I think too, there's a very deliberate attempt to move out of 546 00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:58.740 Doctor Who continuity by setting the future stories vastly, vastly 547 00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:02.279 further in the future than we've ever been before except maybe the 548 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:02.819 Ark. 549 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.980 And even the arc is clever enough to, you know, not have a year. 550 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:12.779 It's set in the 57th segment of time and, you know. 551 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.779 So it clears all of that stuff. 552 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:20.819 We can still have our space war between the Earth Empire and the 553 00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:22.799 Draconians and that gets left untouched. 554 00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:27.180 Isn't the 57th segment of time when the Earth originally burnt 555 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:27.420 up. 556 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:29.519 No, we're never speaking of that again. 557 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.400 You make a really good point there. 558 00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:34.799 It means that we're all on the same page. 559 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.799 Old fans and new fans. 560 00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:42.059 And Russell's redrafting what it means to be Doctor Who rewriting 561 00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:42.839 not rewriting. 562 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:46.380 He's telling us this is what the show is now, and we have to be on 563 00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:48.059 the same page, moving forward. 564 00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.400 We get lots of the Tanoi voice. 565 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.059 I love that voice. 566 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.480 Whoever does that voice, you know, earth filter descending and 567 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.980 there's little throwaway things outside when we see the visuals as 568 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:12.480 well, that we forbid the use of teleportation and weapons and 569 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.579 religion on platform one. 570 00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:19.559 We get another throwaway line by the mocks of Belhoon, about the 571 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:20.940 this is a bad wolf scenario. 572 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:22.380 This is a bad scenario. 573 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.359 I don't think that's going to be important in any ways. 574 00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:25.680 We don't watch all. 575 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.980 Do you know what that tanoi voice reminds me of? 576 00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.059 What? 577 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:31.500 Earth shuffle arriving. 578 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.380 Yes, from the leisure hive. 579 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.119 Yes, yes, very true. 580 00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:40.200 I mean, it's obviously it's nowhere near as iconic. 581 00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:44.880 But it has the same sort of Tom, bro. 582 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.380 Yeah, the same feel to it. 583 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.200 Yeah, totally agree. totally agree. 584 00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:54.720 So there is one other thing that Russell does to put us old fans 585 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.839 on the same footing as the new fans, and that is the mystery of 586 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:02.640 the doctor, which is finally revealed. 587 00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:08.940 And I think that you talked earlier, Todd, about how both Rose and 588 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:12.839 the audience needed to earn that revelation about who the doctor 589 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:13.380 is. 590 00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:21.240 And I think that the way that Rose earns it is, because their 1st 591 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:28.799 date, the doctor takes Rose to the future so that she can see her 592 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:30.059 planet burning. 593 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.619 And so when she reacts to that and she reacts to that with sadness 594 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.799 because the world ended and they were caught up in this stupid 595 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:42.000 capture and escape and pressing buttons plot, and no one was 596 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.660 paying attention to the world, and she has a little moment of kind 597 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:47.579 of mourning for something that's passed. 598 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:51.720 And that's the moment where he says what happened to him, and 599 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:56.819 neither the new fans nor the old fans knew that during the time 600 00:30:56.819 --> 00:31:00.599 when the show was off the air, that the doctor's home planet was 601 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.480 destroyed, and that he's the last of his kind. 602 00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:09.359 And that revelation gives the doctor a kind of more epic 603 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:10.920 backstory. 604 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:15.539 And, uh, it obviously sweeps away all those sofas that were 605 00:31:15.539 --> 00:31:17.940 scattered around Galifre and gets rid of. 606 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:18.960 Yeah, yeah. 607 00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:22.559 Like gets rid of Gallifrey, which is terrible and, you know, I 608 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:23.819 hope never ever comes back. 609 00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:29.339 But it also gives the doctor this sort of, you know, tragic 610 00:31:29.339 --> 00:31:29.940 scale. 611 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.799 And I think it's so well done. 612 00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:33.180 It's so cleverly seated. 613 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.799 We had references to the last great time war in the last episode. 614 00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.880 And we'll learn more about the time war as things go on. 615 00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:46.440 But I remember watching the series for the 1st time and being 616 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:49.200 intrigued, like wondering what the time war was. 617 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:51.960 And, of course, being terribly grateful that Russell had got rid 618 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:52.799 of Gallifrey. 619 00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:56.819 And it's, you know, Jade even calls, like even says, stop wasting 620 00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:57.660 time, time lord. 621 00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:59.640 So again, we had the word time lord last week. 622 00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:02.160 We've got it again, but Rose hasn't necessarily heard it properly 623 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.079 until the end of this episode. 624 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.759 But yes, it's great. 625 00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:08.220 Getting rid of Gallifrey and giving him a backstory that we're 626 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:09.359 intrigued about what has happened. 627 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:13.980 It just gives him emotional depth and there's a pain behind 628 00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:14.579 everything. 629 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.059 And when Jada dies. 630 00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:21.000 He gets really angry, you know? 631 00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:25.380 Christopher just turns on a dime to deal with the character. 632 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.819 We have not talked about yet, which is Cassandra, O'Brien.belta 633 00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:30.180 17. 634 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.859 He was once a little boy, which is another amazing line that at 635 00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:36.240 the time I kind of, what? 636 00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:37.200 And he just gets thrown away. 637 00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:41.880 Do you know, this is my most favourite thing and it's slightly 638 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:44.700 spoiled by new earth, but my favourite thing about the conception 639 00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:50.160 of Cassandra. is that when we 1st see her, the camera goes around 640 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:56.579 so that we can see how flat she is, and then on her backside, just 641 00:32:56.579 --> 00:33:02.579 immediately behind her mouth, there's a hole, and I am absolutely 642 00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:04.920 certain that that's her asshole, yeah. 643 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:09.240 Because, you know, basically human beings are a sort of giant tube 644 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.140 with an elementary canal sort of starting at the mouth and ending 645 00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:13.680 at the other end. 646 00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.440 If you remove the middle, that's all you have left. 647 00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:20.880 So this is the 1st character whose bum hole has actually appeared 648 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:21.359 on screen. 649 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.000 She's literally mooning the audio. 650 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:30.000 I'm just going to go past that for a moment. as we grapple with 651 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:30.119 that. 652 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:32.700 You're welcome to ignore that completely now, Todd. 653 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:36.599 It's a wonderful performance by Zoe. 654 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:41.819 And it's also an amazing piece of special effect. 655 00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:42.839 Yeah. 656 00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.960 But the doctor at the end lets her die. 657 00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:50.759 He brings her back and because of that, his actions actually kill 658 00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:52.500 her. and every's in action. 659 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:53.460 Oh, he brings her back. 660 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:55.380 Yeah, but he doesn't help her. 661 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:56.099 He doesn't help her. 662 00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:57.299 Like, he doesn't help her. 663 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.299 And then he says everything has its time and everything dies. 664 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:03.119 He knows that he's sentenced her to death. 665 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:06.180 So it sets up the sort of person that he actually is. 666 00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.680 He is dangerous, you know? 667 00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:12.780 You push him too far and he will get to a point where, you know, I 668 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:13.440 take no prisoners. 669 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:15.900 Like, you know, there are consequences for your actions. 670 00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:22.139 And he's just got this gravitas about him, which I don't think any 671 00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:22.920 doctors had. 672 00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:25.139 I think Capaldi's got it. 673 00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.380 I don't know whether his success has quite got there. 674 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:29.460 Yeah, yeah. 675 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.280 I think the idea that the doctor's performance is a mask is 676 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:37.260 something that tenant does in silence of the library or the sequel 677 00:34:37.260 --> 00:34:43.559 to it, where River tells him his name, and he's really shaken by 678 00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.440 that, and then he's instantly back to being doctor-ish. 679 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:49.139 And I think that's a great, great conception of the character 680 00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:52.860 because you've got doctors who are, you know, charismatic in the 681 00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:56.820 way that Tom Baker is charismatic or Colin is charismatic, but 682 00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:59.699 neither of them have much interiority. 683 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:00.719 Do you know what I mean? 684 00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:05.699 There's not much idea that there's something behind that or under 685 00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:06.059 it. 686 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.480 And it's not something that you get very much in the classic 687 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:10.260 series at all. 688 00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:12.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 689 00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:15.239 No, I'm not I'm not dissing the classic series at all. 690 00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:19.260 But I do think that this was a much more interesting direction to 691 00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:23.699 take it rather than having a sort of happy wisecracking hero who's 692 00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:26.099 just travelling through the universe for fun. 693 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:29.699 The idea that the doctor's travelling through the universe to 694 00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:34.320 escape something, which still allows him to have fun still allows 695 00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:39.059 him to be charismatic and funny, but allows him also to be just a 696 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:40.440 bit more complicated and interesting. 697 00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:42.119 You push those triggers. 698 00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:47.639 And that hurt and that pain and that anger come bubbling to the 699 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:48.000 surface. 700 00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:50.460 Something Christopher does really, really well. 701 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:54.360 I often think that this episode is overlooked. 702 00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:58.980 I think people often talk about Dalek or Father's Day or the empty 703 00:35:58.980 --> 00:35:59.219 child. 704 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:01.320 We remember Cassandra. 705 00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.000 We should remember this story. 706 00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:03.960 Yeah. 707 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:08.940 And it's just so important, along with Rose, as this handle at the 708 00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:11.579 beginning of the season, sort of mirrors the end of the season 709 00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:14.400 we're on, we're now on platform one, platform's going to come 710 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:14.579 back. 711 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.199 Bad Wolf is introduced. 712 00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:20.699 We've got psychic paper, TARDIS, Last of the Time Lords, time all 713 00:36:20.699 --> 00:36:21.719 of this stuff you set up. 714 00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:25.019 And from here on, it's just little bits seeding us through the 715 00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:25.559 rest of the season. 716 00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:29.400 Well, I mean, you are someone who has said over and over again 717 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:33.000 that the TV movie doesn't work because it introduces all of those 718 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.619 things in the 1st 30 seconds. 719 00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:39.480 Whereas here, there's a lot of backstory that's introduced here 720 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:42.480 but they keep the rest of the plot fairly light. 721 00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:45.900 You know, it's a sort of whodunit plot and doesn't really have all 722 00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:46.980 that much going for it. 723 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.699 But it does allow us time to get to know both rows and the 724 00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:54.059 doctrine to learn more about what this new show is going to be. 725 00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.840 I have to say, there are 2 things that I really love in this. 726 00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:00.960 Those stupid fans that are just impossible, right? 727 00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:04.019 always reminds me of Sigourney Weaver in Galaxy Quest, when she's 728 00:37:04.019 --> 00:37:06.420 going, what are these chomping, chompy, chompy things that we have 729 00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:09.059 to go through, the writers just don't know, you know, they're just 730 00:37:09.059 --> 00:37:12.059 hackneyed writers, and the fact that all these fans are speeding 731 00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:13.260 up and the doctor has to go through them. 732 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.719 It's an impossible thing to get to the switch that he has to 733 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.019 pull. 734 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.480 I just love that, like, Russell sort of sending up that whole 735 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:20.639 genre. does lampshade it, doesn't it? 736 00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:23.340 The doctor kind of goes, oh, yes, you know, of course that's where 737 00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:28.139 they would be. 42 is, I think, the worst new series story for 738 00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.539 inconveniently placed controls. 739 00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:33.719 But this... 740 00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:35.099 But it does it with humour. 741 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:37.800 And the other thing is I love the spiders. 742 00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:43.440 When they hit the camera in the ventilation duct, which I think is 743 00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:47.579 a nod back to the 1965 classic, the web planet, when one giant ant 744 00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:52.800 hits the camera and the camera moves out of place and then goes 745 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:53.579 back to the shot. 746 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:54.960 I think it's a nod to classic series. 747 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:56.099 I don't know if it is or not. 748 00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:57.000 Yeah, it was. 749 00:37:57.059 --> 00:38:00.119 It was actively, it was like they said that at the time. 750 00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:06.000 Like, I think, does Russell say it in the righteous tale or in a 751 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.539 commentary, he says, no, that was a reference to the web planet. 752 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.280 That was specifically that... 753 00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:15.420 In fact, the web planet gets repeatedly referenced in this season 754 00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:19.260 and it's worth mentioning that the face of Bo is the oldest 755 00:38:19.260 --> 00:38:23.760 inhabitant of the ISOP galaxy, and we'll have venom grubs coming 756 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:25.199 back in Boomtown. 757 00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:26.579 Like, I think. 758 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:30.420 And I think, uh, let's take a drink, dear listener, Elizabeth 759 00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:36.780 Sandefer, um, mentions that this story actually has something in 760 00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:41.159 common with the web planet in that it is an incredible weird 761 00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:45.960 spectacle that's designed to be like nothing else on television 762 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.539 and it does that right up front. 763 00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:52.019 It goes all out to say, this is what we can do. 764 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:56.340 You know, we've done the housing estate and the local shopping 765 00:38:56.340 --> 00:39:00.840 centre and running down Westminster Bridge, but we can be much 766 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.760 much weirder than that if we want to. 767 00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:07.500 And I think it's a really ballsy, really brave 2nd episode and 768 00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:08.940 absolutely the right thing to do. 769 00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:13.860 What I love about this story is that, I mean, we've talked about 770 00:39:13.860 --> 00:39:18.960 the way that it shows what Doctor Who can be now. 771 00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:21.780 It also tells what Doctor Who can be now. 772 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:26.820 Like the the concepts and the just the the seemingly throwaway 773 00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:30.599 lines, the the great line about continental drift, sorry. 774 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:34.619 Um, and, you know, but the continents move. 775 00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:36.300 I saw it on news round extra. 776 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.480 And then the doctor says, well, that's classic earth, the national 777 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:42.119 trust, put it, put it back together. 778 00:39:42.179 --> 00:39:47.039 And, and, and, there's so much imagination there is showing the 779 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:51.059 imagination that this show can have in a way that it probably 780 00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:52.679 hasn't ever done before. 781 00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:53.579 Yeah. 782 00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:55.139 Even in the classic series. 783 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:57.960 And I think it's really important because I think a lot of people 784 00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.059 would have come into Doctor Who thinking that it's a science 785 00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:02.820 fiction program, and especially the American audience, I think 786 00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:06.179 would have a preconception of what science fiction shows should be 787 00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:06.420 like. 788 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.179 And this is really just saying, well, this is Doctor Who. 789 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.880 And like, let's blow your mind. 790 00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:15.000 And if we've blown your mind and you're going, oh my goodness, it's 791 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.039 so different, then join us for this journey. 792 00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:44.699 Well, then, this nomads, all we've got time for this week. 793 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.940 We're off to eat our own body weighting chips before our first 794 00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:51.179 excursion into the world of BBC period drama. 795 00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.940 Do come back next week for the unquiet dead. 796 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.719 In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com 797 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.619 flights through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE 798 00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:02.460 podcast on Twitter. 799 00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:06.719 Over on Bondfinger, you can find commentary podcasts on every era 800 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:08.280 of the James Bond series. 801 00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.639 That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and at 802 00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:13.260 bondfingercast on Twitter. 803 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.860 Until next time, listeners are reminded that Flight through 804 00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:19.260 Entirety is a maximum hospitality zone. 805 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.679 Please keep any lianas or heartbreaking personal backstories 806 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:24.599 concealed at all times. 807 00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.760 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 808 00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:28.019 See you soon. 809 00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:28.679 Good night. 810 00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:34.739 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan 811 00:41:34.739 --> 00:41:38.159 Bottomley, and James Selwood, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb 812 00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:40.199 strings performance by Jane Alberg. 813 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.860 This episode, literally mooning the audience, was recorded on the 814 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:47.639 11th of June 2018 and released on the 2nd of September. 815 00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:55.320 Fans of James's appearance on this podcast will also enjoy his 816 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:59.639 turn as the mastering episode 112 and his upcoming sitcom in which 817 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:03.239 he plays a former Doctor Who club president with a dark secret and 818 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:03.960 a heart of gold. 819 00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:06.840 I'm not picking that up. 820 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.380 Good, fine. 821 00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:10.079 Or you should maybe stop. 822 00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:13.860 So, I don't know. 823 00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:17.159 Just go around the house smashing all the clock. 824 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:19.980 Yeah, we should. 825 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:25.500 Yeah, I think if we delay pressing the fast return switch for long 826 00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:26.940 enough, they'll all just meld. 827 00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:31.079 It's 10 o'clock. 828 00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:32.639 It's gonna be 10 chimes. 829 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:34.619 It's 9.55. 830 00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.099 They're all set to go off a different time. hilariously. 831 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.260 That must be joyous. 832 00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:45.300 So it's sort of like, is that a, is that a sort of analogue 833 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:49.559 version of searching the, searching your, um, your liability? 834 00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:50.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 835 00:42:50.579 --> 00:42:52.079 Oh, God. 836 00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:55.199 Bong. 837 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:57.599 Okay, okay. 838 00:43:00.659 --> 00:43:02.880 But let's talk about the role of this.