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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:01:50

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which has a wingspan of 50 feet and blows fire from its nostrils.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm James.

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We're 5000000000 years in the future.

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We've got canapes, cocktails, and several 1000000 gallons of sunscreen, which means that we're ready to face the end of the world.

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So, James, apparently you're allowed on the podcast now.

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Apparently.

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Welcome James.

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Yeah, welcome.

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This is great.

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This is the 1st and last time.

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Yes, that's right. very, very well behaved.

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You won't be back.

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So let's talk about this because this is a crucial episode in the history of Doctor Who because, oh my god, we've actually had some news since the last episode aired.

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And that being that the doctor's leaving?

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Yeah. already.

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I know.

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It was heartbreaking at the time, don't you think?

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I was really crushed by it because this is something we talked about this last week about how incredibly excited we all were.

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It's sort of makes you feel like, 0 my goodness, like change already, or is it going to jeopardise the future of the show, really, you know, and we're only just getting an audience now.

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Well, they stick with it if somebody's already leaving.

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Yeah, I mean, I was questioning whether it would actually be back. off the 2nd series, if it couldn't keep, I mean, it just, it just threw the entire sort of future of the show into kind of question.

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I mean, obviously that's not what happened.

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And whatever people personally think of David Tennant, he made the role his own and Yeah, became incredibly popular.

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Had he been announced at this point?

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No, I don't think so.

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I think were there rumours?

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Well, I think the smart money was on David Tennant because he'd been in RTD's Casanova and he actually had been with Mark Gatas in a live action version of the Quatermass experiment.

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And I think that he knew about that then.

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So I think he was kind of big and I don't think anyone was particularly surprised when it was announced that it was going to be him.

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There's an in joke in the Quage Mass experiment remake, where I think it's actually Geisha's character says, the doctor, I presume, or something along those lines.

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Yeah.

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So he'd found out, I think the day before it was made, because it's filmed live. and and they slipped that line in there.

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Right, right. interesting.

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It's very good, actually.

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It is well worth a look.

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It's kind of amazing that they managed to do it.

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And there was only one kind of line fluff in the entire sort of 90 minutes or however long it runs for.

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Wow.

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But of course, we've got Christopher here, and of course, this starts off, you know, segueing straight away from the previous episode, straight into this, and they're in the TARDIS. so organic.

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I just find it as a classic series fan, you know, all the pumping of the Fiston thing and the turning of the stuff, like straight at the beginning of this episode, it's so different from the classic series who, like the way in which he's dealing with the TARD.

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Yeah, well, the last 3 doctors apart from mum, that one fateful night, one night in the 1990s, had a TARDIS console that was just buttons essentially and had one lever.

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And so running around.

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I mean, they did do a little bit of running around and business with the console.

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But here you've got an incredibly physical console and a really physical kind of working class doctor who's pumping things and using all sorts of physical effort.

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He's got that bong on the console that he turns around.

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I never thought of it like that.

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Oh, dear.

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It's actually a really funny scene.

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And we will come back to it later because they do think that it does talk a little bit about Russell T. Davies' conception of the future and the way that he uses the future in Doctor Who.

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But let's talk about the role of this episode, because this episode has an amazingly important job to do, which is to kind of convince us that this show is a going concern and to kind of show us what the show is capable of.

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Yeah, it's so crucial.

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I mean, I consider it to be Rose Part 2.

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Because it just segues into it.

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And in the 1st 15 minutes, it's very much Rose dealing with a lot of new things and the audience dealing with it as well.

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But as we'll see in our discussions, I think it then changes throughout the episode and suddenly to the doctor's story and and the audience getting little bits of information before a final sort of scene where there is a payoff to that.

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But yes, you're very right.

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This, I mean, this sets the scene of what the tone of the show's going to be like.

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And straight away, I mean, we're out of the TARDIS onto this platform.

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And I'm absolutely amazed at the visual effects, like straight up with the earth and the sun and the platform that could never have been done in original who.

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You know, they spent most of the budget of series one on that one episode.

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This episode.

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Yes.

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I'm not surprised.

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Well, it has a massive number of effect shots, like a huge, huge number.

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Slightly over 200 special effect shots in that episode.

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It was, we need to throw everything and the kitchen sink at this to sell how Doctor Who is going to look now.

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Uh, you know, this is Doctor Who.

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This is not the creaky old cardboard set show that you saw when you were a kid back in the 1970s.

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This is big.

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There's a very definite attempt to ground this season on Earth.

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And a lot of fanboys, you know, complained that we never left Earth this season and there weren't any alien planets.

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We were all around Earth.

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And I think Russell T. Davies was afraid of Doctor Who's reputation as being a bunch of stuff that happens in space corridors.

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And so the 1st time that he goes to the future, he takes us to a beautiful kind of, what's the location called?

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Platform one.

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No, but I mean, it's like a hotel in Cardiff or something.

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It's temple.

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Yeah, it's a temple and it's used over and over again.

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You see it all the time in Doctor Who, even in the Moffatt era.

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This location comes back.

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But it is incredibly beautiful and, you know, impressive looking.

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And because we've got to sell rose's kind of dislocation about being in the future, it throws just heaps and heaps of ridiculous aliens at us.

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And they're not just men in suits, although there's plenty of men in suits, but there's, you know, the face of Bo, who's in a giant big tank, and then you've got Jimmy V as the mocks of Balhoon, and they're all sort of strange, odd looking aliens.

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And when they're introduced, none of them are like Sontarans or Cybermen.

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Like they're not from a particular alien race.

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They're from financial family 7 or, you know, from a company or a family or a forest.

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You know, they're they're not just sort of generic alien races from the planet Zog.

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They're strange and sort of incomprehensible, even, I think, to people who've watched Doctor Who before.

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It does your head in.

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It really does.

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I sit there going, what does that actually mean?

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But at the same time, I'm sort of laughing at the names that have been thrown at me, like they bring a smile to my face.

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Yeah.

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I think it is really quite significant that the steward is the 1st alien that we actually see as classic series fans since 1989.

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Last week we had the nesting consciousness with the plastic autons, but the classic series fans, that's something that we know.

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And they're not characters.

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They't speak or anything.

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No, that's right.

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Whereas here, he is the 1st real alien.

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And then Rose is suddenly confronted with this litany of different looking aliens.

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Yeah, and the audience is having to deal with this as well.

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I think it's a wonderful scene.

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It's comedic, but at the same time, you also have Christopher or the doctor being introduced to these, these aliens and how he interacts and Rose is watching that and you're what.

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I mean, when I was rewatching this, I'm watching her reactions to him and his reactions to her, it's quite, it's very cleverly written, and also to intimacy that the doctor has with Jade or the intimacy that she shows back, and seeing Rose's reaction to that.

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So Jabe says she's from, um, she's descended from the planet below and she's a direct descendant of the tropical rainforest.

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She's a village in South London.

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Yeah, it's a real place.

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It's not a sort of crazy planet.

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Yeah, until I lived in London, I had no idea.

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It was just like, oh, that's a funny sounding name.

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But no, it's literally she's from South London.

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It's trerendous.

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And, you know, she's one of many races that have evolved on the surface of the planet.

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And you've got to think that that's a reference to the Silurians, which are, you know, yet another race that evolved on earth.

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So humans, Silurians, trees, all of them reached sentience and then sort of developed spaceships and, you know, headed off world.

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Even those bird head creatures that appear, what's her name?

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Mrs. what is it?

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Mr. Mrs. Pacoo, is that there?

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I really think it's very clever, the way the way that whole scene is set up and then, you know, then Rose does have a moment and she has to leave the situation.

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And that's really well told using something that we've never actually seen in Doctor Who before, which is the use of tainted love, which whose lyrics actually tell us what Rose is feeling, and she has to get away.

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You know, she is overwhelmed by sort of culture shock.

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In a way that we probably are as well, the way you were talking about your reaction to all these aliens, Todd.

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I mean, they're sort of funny, but they're incomprehensible and they're nothing that we've ever seen before.

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And that means that we're experiencing a kind of disorientation the same way that rose is.

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You are very overwhelmed by lots of things and things have been thrown at you.

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Like, we've already had at this point, the introduction of psychic paper.

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And it's a very subtle introduction.

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It's something that as a classic series fan, you kind of go, well, how are they going to do these 45 minute episodes, because in the original series, the doctor turns up, gets accused of something, it's put in jail, a cell, a dungeon, and then has to spend time breaking out and proving himself.

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The middle part of the 4 parter.

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Or even the 1st episode, James.

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Whereas here it's like, okay, we've got our in.

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We can get into the story and we can be whoever we need to be, which I think is just brilliant and it's just done quickly.

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It's over with, but I'm processing that going, oh, oh, oh.

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And then when Rose leaves that scene, Jade scans the doctor.

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And she's looking at her little device going, this is impossible.

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As a classic series of stands, I'm going, well, I know why it's impossible because you're a timelord, but do new series fans really, do you pick up on what's on that little scanner and what's going on?

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It's just this, it just seems, it seems, well, there's something about the doctor, you know?

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And then we have a little break.

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Where we're trying to process all this stuff, but it sort of just, it goes from being really rushed to rose talking to Raffello.

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Is that...

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And wasn't that scene added later or am I...

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The Rafallo scene was was a late edition to the script because it was underrunning, yes.

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But it's so crucial because it just gives us time to process.

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Rose is talking to a real person in this environment, finding out that this real person does real things.

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Yeah, she's a plumber.

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We still have plumbers in the future.

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That's right.

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And I just really love that connection.

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Of course, it's the kiss of death because in the last episode Clive only interacted with Rose, not the doctor, and he got killed off.

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And here again, this character only interacts with Rose and, well, she's gone, you know, moments later.

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Gee, I'm really worried about Gwyneth next week.

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But she does get to interact with the doctor, but it's sort of it's setting a precedence.

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But those characters die so pointlessly as well.

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You know, they just die off screen.

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But of like, from the point of view of the lead characters.

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They die without any lodge of that.

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I think that that is a really great economical scene that sells the threat really early.

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Like, we don't really know what happens to Rafallo.

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But she's very funny and very sweet and very human and super likeable.

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And it's interesting that they cast a woman to play that part.

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I think that's really good.

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But it does what Doctor Who does.

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You know, it's what Clive said in the 1st episode, like death and destruction follows him and that is a feature of Doctor Who.

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And it's reinforcing that to the new audience, you know, that, as you said, death and destruction do follow the doctor even when he's not around.

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It influences what events are taking place.

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And that builds and builds over the next 9 seasons.

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And and sort of reaches its apotheosis that last year's Christmas special.

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The doctor being in someone's life is, is, is kind of a death sentence. is the way Moffatt tends to have sort of aimed towards...

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Yeah, I think Moffatt...

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You know, Russell does interrogate that a little bit later on in his in his run, but I do think that that is something that Moffatt really kind of plays with.

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And, you know, I think we also do need the alternative story which does happen, which is that the doctor is called the doctor because he makes people's lives better.

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Which is what they're reaching for.

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But but they're doing it by going, oh, well, look at all this death and destruction, but he, you know, he's trying.

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Yeah.

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But we then get another scene, which I just think is so crucial.

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And that is the doctor and rose.

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Having an art, well, she is, you know, questioning why, who are you?

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Why am I here?

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What's going on?

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They have one of their arguments, and I think they have disagreement, I should say.

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And they have it in this episode and they have it in the next episode as well, where they they argue about something.

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It's really interesting to see their dynamic working through that process.

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But it's so, it's so interesting to me here again.

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Rose is making it all about her.

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She wants to know about the doctor.

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She wants to know what's going on her feelings.

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The doctor is not ready to give her certain information at this point.

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He can only go so far, but, you know, he has to connect her with Jackie.

191
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You know, he's we're getting fed a bit of information.

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Again very cleverly.

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It's explained how everybody speaks English.

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Another thing that's not really dealt in the classic series except for once with Sarah.

195
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But I never thought of it like it invades your head and is not given permission.

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Like, it's, again, a very clever thing from Russell, it really questions for those of us who are original series fans, how preconceptions or what we believe to be the show.

197
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So it's like a really, it makes a really interesting point about consent.

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Yeah.

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And and whether Rose is a character really consented to what like is happening to her life.

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She's jumped into it without all of the, all of the information that she necessarily needs.

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Yeah, well, I mean, that's what that whole thing is about, isn't it?

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Like it's, she even says to Raffallo that she didn't know what she's doing.

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She's jumped into this thing with a stranger, she doesn't know who he is.

204
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And there's a sense in which she goes on the attack.

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Like when she tells the doctor, like demands to know where he's from, and he sort of accuses her in some ways of being racist, you know, the deep south line.

206
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But that aggressively asking someone what their background is, is kind of impolite in a sort of normal human context.

207
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:05.880
Especially if you're British.

208
00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:06.900
Yeah, yeah.

209
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:19.380
And so, and so, um, she backs off and they do repair it, but they repair it in a nice subtle way, and it is what you said, Todd, where he fixes her phone so that she can speak to Jackie.

210
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:26.279
Did you notice that that that's actually a flashback that she's ringing Jackie before Hendrix explodes?

211
00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:42.480
Yes, I will say that because I was watching it going, like, is this even Jackie's flat with those trees outside and I'm going, like, is this set before the events of Rose because, you know, in a couple of episodes time, like she's never gone back after the events of Rose.

212
00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:45.779
Like, so it must be before that.

213
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.180
So I was trying to place that. like I...

214
00:17:48.240 --> 00:18:00.119
Well, I think that Jackie actually says that she wants Rose to put some money into the lottery syndicate, which is run by Wilson, which is, you know, the very, very 1st time that we see Rose last episode.

215
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:04.500
So I think it is explicitly like the Wednesday before or something like that.

216
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.599
I've got a big spot on my face.

217
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:07.440
That's fantastic.

218
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.059
I hadn't really picked that up.

219
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:16.920
And it's just a clever sort of subtle little throwaway that you just, unless you're really listening to the lies, you don't get.

220
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:18.779
But it doesn't matter if you don't get it.

221
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.819
But it's also to the fact that we're speaking to one of the semi-regulars as well.

222
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.599
We haven't quit completely detached from the earth that we know.

223
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:41.759
So it's also sending out this signal that those characters can still be at least Jackie or whatever can be involved in a small way, but not just in space away from the earth that we know.

224
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:56.700
I do find it intriguing that this is one episode where there's not a significant other than the doctor male in the cast.

225
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:02.819
If you look at this season, next week we're going to have Simon Callow as Charles Dickens.

226
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:03.359
Thank you.

227
00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:07.019
Then we've got a two-parter where Mickey is back.

228
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.559
Then we've got the companion that ever was in 2 episodes.

229
00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:15.240
Then we've got Rose's dad, and then we've got Captain Jack or Mickey for the rest of the season.

230
00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:16.019
Right.

231
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:20.220
So this is the one episode where we don't have another supporting male character.

232
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:26.700
Yeah, we've got the steward, but they kill him quite quickly and he's more of a comedy performance than an actual character.

233
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.960
And I think that's important because we've got to start focussing on the doctor.

234
00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:34.500
And that scene, going back to that scene with Rose and the doctor.

235
00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:42.779
There are questions there, and you want those questions answered, but we, like Rose, have not earned the right to those answers as yet.

236
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:47.099
And that will suddenly, you know, play out throughout the episode.

237
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:52.559
The doctor's relationship with Jade. is beautiful.

238
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:53.460
Yeah.

239
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:54.660
She's terrific.

240
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:55.680
Has she been back?

241
00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:59.400
Yasmin Bannerman, who plays Dana in the big finish audios.

242
00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:05.220
Is that right Oh, and she is fantastic as Dana in Blake 7.

243
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.519
I don't I don't know if she's been back to Doctor Who?

244
00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.640
No, not in the TV series.

245
00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:19.259
Big finish has just brought her back as James's...

246
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:21.000
Clone...

247
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:21.720
Sapling?

248
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.720
I'm surprised there isn't a Jab box set, actually.

249
00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:28.740
In their new spinoff series, New Earth.

250
00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:30.779
Oh, Tales from New Earth.

251
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.539
But I'm surprised that those trees have not been back to Doctor Who.

252
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.019
We've had trees in that, what's that horrible Christmas special?

253
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.039
The Andrazani one.

254
00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:42.599
The Doctor the Widow and the Wardrobe.

255
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.279
Yeah, in the forest of the night.

256
00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:52.799
And then we've had tree character in that wood episode with Capaldi and Pearl Mackie, you know, yeah, that's terrible.

257
00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:53.460
Knock knock.

258
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.980
But she's such a great character.

259
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.640
They have some wonderful moments and she's so intimate with the doctor.

260
00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:07.319
Like, just her concern over him, like, and you know there's more there when she puts her hand on his arm.

261
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:16.920
And the tears that Christopher Eccleston gives in his eyes, like at that moment when she talks about his race or being the last of his kind.

262
00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:20.400
I can't remember the exact words, but I'm just thinking, 0 my goodness.

263
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:24.599
I still tear up in that scene, even watching it in preparation for this.

264
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:32.339
And I remember at the time thinking that that's a difference between the new series and the classic series...

265
00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:34.859
Is that the 1st time we've ever actually seen the character cry?

266
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:36.059
The doctor.

267
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:37.980
Possibly, yeah.

268
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:44.880
It's certainly the 1st time he has the same kind of interiority as another...

269
00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:48.180
Yeah, it's a real human and it is really, really good.

270
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:54.660
And it also shows that the doctor is hiding this the whole time.

271
00:21:54.720 --> 00:22:01.259
And we saw that in the fight with Rose, where he just says, all that matters is the hero now, and that's me.

272
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:08.759
And Jabe says, you know, maybe someone seeks excitement or danger or something when that's all he has left.

273
00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:19.799
Yeah, and the tears thing, he instantly pulls himself together and gets on with the adventure, which just we see the mask go back on almost immediately.

274
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:27.900
That character, just the way she connects with the doctor, the intimacy of it.

275
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:33.539
And he doesn't, in their initial meeting, he doesn't, he sort of flirts with it, but he doesn't realise he's doing it.

276
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:38.039
But she trusts him and ultimately she makes the ultimate sacrifice.

277
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:50.940
That sequence where she burns in the background as he's trying to save the platform is just for me anyway, heartbreaking that she, you know, and it's the music.

278
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:17.940
So, music is now playing such a huge part of this selling the emotion of what's going on.

279
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.859
It's modern television.

280
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:27.420
Yeah, there were a lot of people who complained about it, you know, who said, oh, well, here's Murray telling us how to feel and how to be a motive.

281
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.420
But that's what music is for.

282
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:39.359
That's a common complaint of all grumpy old men who watch television these days is that you're telling me how to feel constantly.

283
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.839
But I mean, that's what that's what drama is supposed to do.

284
00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:45.000
We could go back to Aristotle for that.

285
00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:55.619
You know, we meant to feel in a particular way, and we now have a massive orchestra and a talented composer, and that's a cinematic technique as well.

286
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:06.180
I mean, that's one of the reasons why we continue to love Star Wars, even after it's had so many misses, is that the music is always so great.

287
00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:11.819
I actually found that the mix on the Blu-rays was kind of strange.

288
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:17.220
The mix on the 1st few seasons of Doctor Who is strange, right?

289
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.500
Like, you know, like there was like music.

290
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:24.539
Yes, we've got a great composer, music, music, music, music, music, and then they don't get it right in the mix.

291
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:30.839
I thought that at the time when I was watching, I was just like, oh, this is jarring.

292
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:39.180
Like, I mean, I love Marigold's music. for Doctor Who, but it, in those 1st few seasons, it just drowns the production.

293
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:47.339
There are whole swathes of rose where you're looking at the scene and you're going, what are they saying?

294
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:48.059
I can't hear them.

295
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.119
You don't think it's just that we were all quite old?

296
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:52.740
By the time you watched it.

297
00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:53.819
Wow.

298
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:55.079
Oh, you weren't.

299
00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:56.940
No, you weren't.

300
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.259
Oh, no, what?

301
00:24:58.259 --> 00:24:59.940
Like dear Brendan, listeners.

302
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.500
James is a decade younger than the rest of us, at least.

303
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:30.839
Yeah, but having a talent composer, Russell is still willing to go with modern music, and I put that in quotes, like the iPod will play toxic by Britney Spears, that classic ballad.

304
00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:38.519
Like any, I love the fact that it's, it's a modern music track for the time, but he plays with the humour of it.

305
00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:40.140
Like, they get it wrong.

306
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.460
Well, in fact, Cassandra quotes burn baby burn as well.

307
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.640
So this is a future, 5000000000 years into the future.

308
00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:56.160
The only earth music that survives is disco and you've got to think that's that's a pretty impressive conception of the future.

309
00:25:56.220 --> 00:26:03.900
And in fact, I love the conception of the future here because like there's new numbers that have been invented, you know, Apple and Cup are now numbers.

310
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:12.359
And I think that stuff is really funny and it draws from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I think.

311
00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:16.019
And it also plays with the idea.

312
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:25.980
I think it kind of sells the idea that the future in Doctor Who has always been slightly ridiculous and it kind of leans into that and lampshades that.

313
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:34.079
And Doctor Who was sort of always a cheesy program where people in rubber monster suits would stand around in corridors talking to one another.

314
00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:41.880
And Russell knows that that's how people or just, you know, the ordinary TV viewer has conceived it.

315
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.079
And he leans into it.

316
00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:44.400
And I think it's really successful.

317
00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:49.259
This is a massively, massively successful season of television.

318
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:59.759
And I think it knows how to talk to a general audience in a way that the show really hadn't for, you know, quite a considerable amount of time.

319
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:08.940
It does it with humour. with throwaway lines that aren't crucial to the plot, so you can pick and choose what you get out of it.

320
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:14.279
But for the casual view it, you can still follow what's going on after something's thrown at you.

321
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:17.579
I love the fact that Raffello is from, not even from a planet.

322
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:20.460
It's from some other thing and I'm going, what the hell does that mean?

323
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.140
You've just blown my mind.

324
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:23.759
You've blown my mind.

325
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.440
Like everybody has to come from a planet.

326
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:26.759
No, I just come from...

327
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:27.839
The jacket brocade.

328
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:29.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah. whatever that might happen to me.

329
00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:33.359
It's elusive affiliation around Scarlet Junction.

330
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:37.440
Well, there's the silver devastation gets its 1st name call here too.

331
00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:39.900
No one seems to be from our planet.

332
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:49.619
And I think that that's a really good thing because it puts the old fans and the new fans, you know, in the same footing with respect to what the universe is like.

333
00:27:49.680 --> 00:28:02.819
And I think too, there's a very deliberate attempt to move out of Doctor Who continuity by setting the future stories vastly, vastly further in the future than we've ever been before except maybe the Ark.

334
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.980
And even the arc is clever enough to, you know, not have a year.

335
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:12.779
It's set in the 57th segment of time and, you know.

336
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.779
So it clears all of that stuff.

337
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:22.799
We can still have our space war between the Earth Empire and the Draconians and that gets left untouched.

338
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:27.420
Isn't the 57th segment of time when the Earth originally burnt up.

339
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:29.519
No, we're never speaking of that again.

340
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.400
You make a really good point there.

341
00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:34.799
It means that we're all on the same page.

342
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.799
Old fans and new fans.

343
00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:42.839
And Russell's redrafting what it means to be Doctor Who rewriting. not rewriting.

344
00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:48.059
He's telling us this is what the show is now, and we have to be on the same page, moving forward.

345
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.400
We get lots of the Tanoi voice.

346
00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.059
I love that voice.

347
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:14.579
Whoever does that voice, you know, earth filter descending and there's little throwaway things outside when we see the visuals as well, that we forbid the use of teleportation and weapons and religion on platform one.

348
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:20.940
We get another throwaway line by the mocks of Belhoon, about the, this is a bad wolf scenario.

349
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:22.380
This is a bad scenario.

350
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.359
I don't think that's going to be important in any ways.

351
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:25.680
We don't watch all.

352
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.980
Do you know what that tanoi voice reminds me of?

353
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.059
What?

354
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:31.500
Earth shuffle arriving.

355
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.380
Yes, from the leisure hive.

356
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.119
Yes, yes, very true.

357
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:40.200
I mean, it's obviously it's nowhere near as iconic.

358
00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:44.880
But it has the same sort of Tom, bro.

359
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.380
Yeah, the same feel to it.

360
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.200
Yeah, totally agree. totally agree.

361
00:29:49.259 --> 00:30:02.640
So there is one other thing that Russell does to put us old fans on the same footing as the new fans, and that is the mystery of the doctor, which is finally revealed.

362
00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:13.380
And I think that you talked earlier, Todd, about how both Rose and the audience needed to earn that revelation about who the doctor is.

363
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:30.059
And I think that the way that Rose earns it is, because their 1st date, the doctor takes Rose to the future so that she can see her planet burning.

364
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:47.579
And so when she reacts to that and she reacts to that with sadness, because the world ended and they were caught up in this stupid capture and escape and pressing buttons plot, and no one was paying attention to the world, and she has a little moment of kind of mourning for something that's passed.

365
00:30:47.640 --> 00:31:03.480
And that's the moment where he says what happened to him, and neither the new fans nor the old fans knew that during the time when the show was off the air, that the doctor's home planet was destroyed, and that he's the last of his kind.

366
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:10.920
And that revelation gives the doctor a kind of more epic backstory.

367
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:17.940
And, uh, it obviously sweeps away all those sofas that were scattered around Galifre and gets rid of.

368
00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:18.960
Yeah, yeah.

369
00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:23.819
Like gets rid of Gallifrey, which is terrible and, you know, I hope never ever comes back.

370
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:29.940
But it also gives the doctor this sort of, you know, tragic scale.

371
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.799
And I think it's so well done.

372
00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:33.180
It's so cleverly seated.

373
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.799
We had references to the last great time war in the last episode.

374
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.880
And we'll learn more about the time war as things go on.

375
00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:49.200
But I remember watching the series for the 1st time and being intrigued, like wondering what the time war was.

376
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:52.799
And, of course, being terribly grateful that Russell had got rid of Gallifrey.

377
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:57.660
And it's, you know, Jade even calls, like even says, stop wasting time, time lord.

378
00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:59.640
So again, we had the word time lord last week.

379
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:04.079
We've got it again, but Rose hasn't necessarily heard it properly until the end of this episode.

380
00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.759
But yes, it's great.

381
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:09.359
Getting rid of Gallifrey and giving him a backstory that we're intrigued about what has happened.

382
00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:14.579
It just gives him emotional depth and there's a pain behind everything.

383
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.059
And when Jada dies.

384
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:21.000
He gets really angry, you know?

385
00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:25.380
Christopher just turns on a dime to deal with the character.

386
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.180
We have not talked about yet, which is Cassandra, O'Brien.belta 17.

387
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:36.240
He was once a little boy, which is another amazing line that at the time I kind of, what?

388
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:37.200
And he just gets thrown away.

389
00:32:37.259 --> 00:33:04.920
Do you know, this is my most favourite thing and it's slightly spoiled by new earth, but my favourite thing about the conception of Cassandra. is that when we 1st see her, the camera goes around so that we can see how flat she is, and then on her backside, just immediately behind her mouth, there's a hole, and I am absolutely certain that that's her asshole, yeah.

390
00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:13.680
Because, you know, basically human beings are a sort of giant tube with an elementary canal sort of starting at the mouth and ending at the other end.

391
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.440
If you remove the middle, that's all you have left.

392
00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:21.359
So this is the 1st character whose bum hole has actually appeared on screen.

393
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.000
She's literally mooning the audio.

394
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:30.119
I'm just going to go past that for a moment. as we grapple with that.

395
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:32.700
You're welcome to ignore that completely now, Todd.

396
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:36.599
It's a wonderful performance by Zoe.

397
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:41.819
And it's also an amazing piece of special effect.

398
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:42.839
Yeah.

399
00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.960
But the doctor at the end lets her die.

400
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:52.500
He brings her back and because of that, his actions actually kill her. and every's in action.

401
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:53.460
Oh, he brings her back.

402
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:55.380
Yeah, but he doesn't help her.

403
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:56.099
He doesn't help her.

404
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:57.299
Like, he doesn't help her.

405
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.299
And then he says everything has its time and everything dies.

406
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:03.119
He knows that he's sentenced her to death.

407
00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:06.180
So it sets up the sort of person that he actually is.

408
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.680
He is dangerous, you know?

409
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:13.440
You push him too far and he will get to a point where, you know, I take no prisoners.

410
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:15.900
Like, you know, there are consequences for your actions.

411
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:22.920
And he's just got this gravitas about him, which I don't think any doctors had.

412
00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:25.139
I think Capaldi's got it.

413
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.380
I don't know whether his success has quite got there.

414
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:29.460
Yeah, yeah.

415
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:46.440
I think the idea that the doctor's performance is a mask is something that tenant does in silence of the library or the sequel to it, where River tells him his name, and he's really shaken by that, and then he's instantly back to being doctor-ish.

416
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:59.699
And I think that's a great, great conception of the character because you've got doctors who are, you know, charismatic in the way that Tom Baker is charismatic or Colin is charismatic, but neither of them have much interiority.

417
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:00.719
Do you know what I mean?

418
00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:06.059
There's not much idea that there's something behind that or under it.

419
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:10.260
And it's not something that you get very much in the classic series at all.

420
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

421
00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:15.239
No, I'm not I'm not dissing the classic series at all.

422
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:26.099
But I do think that this was a much more interesting direction to take it rather than having a sort of happy wisecracking hero who's just travelling through the universe for fun.

423
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:40.440
The idea that the doctor's travelling through the universe to escape something, which still allows him to have fun still allows him to be charismatic and funny, but allows him also to be just a bit more complicated and interesting.

424
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:42.119
You push those triggers.

425
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:48.000
And that hurt and that pain and that anger come bubbling to the surface.

426
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:50.460
Something Christopher does really, really well.

427
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:54.360
I often think that this episode is overlooked.

428
00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:59.219
I think people often talk about Dalek or Father's Day or the empty child.

429
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:01.320
We remember Cassandra.

430
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.000
We should remember this story.

431
00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:03.960
Yeah.

432
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:14.579
And it's just so important, along with Rose, as this handle at the beginning of the season, sort of mirrors the end of the season, we're on, we're now on platform one, platform's going to come back.

433
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.199
Bad Wolf is introduced.

434
00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:21.719
We've got psychic paper, TARDIS, Last of the Time Lords, time all of this stuff you set up.

435
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:25.559
And from here on, it's just little bits seeding us through the rest of the season.

436
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:34.619
Well, I mean, you are someone who has said over and over again that the TV movie doesn't work because it introduces all of those things in the 1st 30 seconds.

437
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:42.480
Whereas here, there's a lot of backstory that's introduced here, but they keep the rest of the plot fairly light.

438
00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:46.980
You know, it's a sort of whodunit plot and doesn't really have all that much going for it.

439
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:54.059
But it does allow us time to get to know both rows and the doctrine to learn more about what this new show is going to be.

440
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.840
I have to say, there are 2 things that I really love in this.

441
00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:00.960
Those stupid fans that are just impossible, right?

442
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:13.260
always reminds me of Sigourney Weaver in Galaxy Quest, when she's going, what are these chomping, chompy, chompy things that we have to go through, the writers just don't know, you know, they're just hackneyed writers, and the fact that all these fans are speeding up and the doctor has to go through them.

443
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.019
It's an impossible thing to get to the switch that he has to pull.

444
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:20.639
I just love that, like, Russell sort of sending up that whole genre. does lampshade it, doesn't it?

445
00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:30.539
The doctor kind of goes, oh, yes, you know, of course that's where they would be. 42 is, I think, the worst new series story for inconveniently placed controls.

446
00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:33.719
But this...

447
00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:35.099
But it does it with humour.

448
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:37.800
And the other thing is I love the spiders.

449
00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:53.579
When they hit the camera in the ventilation duct, which I think is a nod back to the 1965 classic, the web planet, when one giant ant hits the camera and the camera moves out of place and then goes back to the shot.

450
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:54.960
I think it's a nod to classic series.

451
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:56.099
I don't know if it is or not.

452
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:57.000
Yeah, it was.

453
00:37:57.059 --> 00:38:00.119
It was actively, it was like they said that at the time.

454
00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:09.539
Like, I think, does Russell say it in the righteous tale or in a commentary, he says, no, that was a reference to the web planet.

455
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.280
That was specifically that...

456
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:25.199
In fact, the web planet gets repeatedly referenced in this season, and it's worth mentioning that the face of Bo is the oldest inhabitant of the ISOP galaxy, and we'll have venom grubs coming back in Boomtown.

457
00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:26.579
Like, I think.

458
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:48.539
And I think, uh, let's take a drink, dear listener, Elizabeth Sandefer, um, mentions that this story actually has something in common with the web planet in that it is an incredible weird spectacle that's designed to be like nothing else on television, and it does that right up front.

459
00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:52.019
It goes all out to say, this is what we can do.

460
00:38:52.079 --> 00:39:02.760
You know, we've done the housing estate and the local shopping centre and running down Westminster Bridge, but we can be much, much weirder than that if we want to.

461
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:08.940
And I think it's a really ballsy, really brave 2nd episode and absolutely the right thing to do.

462
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:18.960
What I love about this story is that, I mean, we've talked about the way that it shows what Doctor Who can be now.

463
00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:21.780
It also tells what Doctor Who can be now.

464
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:30.599
Like the the concepts and the just the the seemingly throwaway lines, the the great line about continental drift, sorry.

465
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:34.619
Um, and, you know, but the continents move.

466
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:36.300
I saw it on news round extra.

467
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:42.119
And then the doctor says, well, that's classic earth, the national trust, put it, put it back together.

468
00:39:42.179 --> 00:39:52.679
And, and, and, there's so much imagination there is showing the imagination that this show can have in a way that it probably hasn't ever done before.

469
00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:53.579
Yeah.

470
00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:55.139
Even in the classic series.

471
00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:06.420
And I think it's really important because I think a lot of people would have come into Doctor Who thinking that it's a science fiction program, and especially the American audience, I think, would have a preconception of what science fiction shows should be like.

472
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.179
And this is really just saying, well, this is Doctor Who.

473
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.880
And like, let's blow your mind.

474
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:17.039
And if we've blown your mind and you're going, oh my goodness, it's so different, then join us for this journey.

475
00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:44.699
Well, then, this nomads, all we've got time for this week.

476
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:51.179
We're off to eat our own body weighting chips before our first excursion into the world of BBC period drama.

477
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.940
Do come back next week for the unquiet dead.

478
00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:02.460
In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flights through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

479
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:08.280
Over on Bondfinger, you can find commentary podcasts on every era of the James Bond series.

480
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:13.260
That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

481
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:19.260
Until next time, listeners are reminded that Flight through Entirety is a maximum hospitality zone.

482
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:24.599
Please keep any lianas or heartbreaking personal backstories concealed at all times.

483
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.760
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

484
00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:28.019
See you soon.

485
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:28.679
Good night.

486
00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:40.199
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottomley, and James Selwood, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Alberg.

487
00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:47.639
This episode, literally mooning the audience, was recorded on the 11th of June 2018 and released on the 2nd of September.

488
00:41:51.059 --> 00:42:03.960
Fans of James's appearance on this podcast will also enjoy his turn as the mastering episode 112 and his upcoming sitcom in which he plays a former Doctor Who club president with a dark secret and a heart of gold.

489
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:06.840
I'm not picking that up.

490
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.380
Good, fine.

491
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:10.079
Or you should maybe stop.

492
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:13.860
So, I don't know.

493
00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:17.159
Just go around the house smashing all the clock.

494
00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:19.980
Yeah, we should.

495
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:26.940
Yeah, I think if we delay pressing the fast return switch for long enough, they'll all just meld.

496
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:31.079
It's 10 o'clock.

497
00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:32.639
It's gonna be 10 chimes.

498
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:34.619
It's 9.55.

499
00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.099
They're all set to go off a different time. hilariously.

500
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.260
That must be joyous.

501
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:49.559
So it's sort of like, is that a, is that a sort of analogue version of searching the, searching your, um, your liability?

502
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:50.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

503
00:42:50.579 --> 00:42:52.079
Oh, God.

504
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:55.199
Bong.

505
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:57.599
Okay, okay.

506
00:43:00.659 --> 00:43:02.880
But let's talk about the role of this.