WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:03:53 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.619 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, whose hosts have all the clothes and the breeding, but who talk like some sort of wild things. 2 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:47.700 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:48.899 I'm Todd. 4 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:50.039 I'm James. 5 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:55.560 We're back in the Victorian era, like the talons of Wing Chiang, only slightly less racist. 6 00:00:55.619 --> 00:00:57.179 It's 1869. 7 00:00:57.659 --> 00:01:02.219 We in Cardiff disappointingly, and it's time to confront the Unquiet Dead. 8 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:20.700 So, my depressing thought about all of this is that we're all the unquiet dead. 9 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:30.060 We're all, sooner or later, dead, and we're still wandering around and making noises and recording podcasts and things like that's never going to happen. 10 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:32.400 Right, that's the end of this. 11 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:33.239 Okay. 12 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:34.980 That's all we have to say. 13 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:41.819 So, Todd, we have been to the future and now we're in the past. 14 00:01:41.939 --> 00:01:46.319 We are, and I think this is what Russell's setting up that we have a present. 15 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:47.340 We have the future. 16 00:01:47.400 --> 00:02:00.180 We have the past, past, past, and future, and that's going to be the go to for the next few seasons where one of these 3 episodes will be in the present one will be in the future one will be in the past and then we'll have a 2 parter. 17 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:01.379 So it's a template. 18 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:07.140 I think, like, he does it, and then Moffatt does it in his 1st season as well in series 5. 19 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:11.759 And I think that he does it again in his last series when he's introducing Bill. 20 00:02:11.819 --> 00:02:13.919 He does the go to the future. go to the past. 21 00:02:13.979 --> 00:02:18.419 But it is so important because, like, we've got to see the Doctor Who can do the past. 22 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.419 Like if we hold off any longer, that would be a problem. 23 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.219 People wouldn't know that that's what to expect. 24 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:27.000 It would be too jarring and it would probably impact negatively on the ratings as well. 25 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:33.300 In fact, there's a whole long periods of time where Doctor Who doesn't do the past at all. 26 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:41.759 So in the Pertuy era, we basically have a bit of the time monster and then the time warrior. 27 00:02:41.819 --> 00:02:44.879 But apart from that, we don't go to the past at all. 28 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:49.439 And, you know, there's a lot of space corridors in the Graham Williams era. 29 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:51.240 I don't think we do the past there. 30 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:53.639 So there are long periods of time where we don't go to the past. 31 00:02:53.699 --> 00:02:56.580 Remember the visitation when it finally came along. 32 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:03.300 It was kind of like, 0 my goodness, it's a period piece and we just haven't done that on Doctor Who for a while. 33 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:10.680 And I think the new series has to go back to the past because it's not going to be a story of space corridors anymore. 34 00:03:10.740 --> 00:03:13.919 It's got to show us that it can do a whole bunch of different things. 35 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:17.219 And this era, the BBC do so well. 36 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:18.300 Yeah. 37 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:19.080 Well, that's right. 38 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:20.460 That's always said, isn't it? 39 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:31.500 Whenever anyone mentions things like horror fang rock or talons of Wang Sheyang, all of which are set sort of within a few decades of this, you know, they just do it very well. 40 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.080 And here I think they do it better than they've ever done. 41 00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:36.900 You've got massive locations. 42 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:41.460 You've got that incredible theatre that they use, which is packed full of extras. 43 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:46.620 You've got great outdoors, things and coaches and horses and stuff. 44 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:52.319 I mean, it's only in those sequences at the beginning, and then you get into the house, but they use it very effectively. 45 00:03:52.860 --> 00:04:06.000 It also, it probably sets up a template, which the new series tends to get stuck in, which is, when we go to the past, it generally is always the Victorian era in the new series. 46 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.520 Not always, but generally. 47 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:15.120 I don't mind that because it's an age of before our modern technology, right? 48 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:21.000 But it's not so far in the past that it's like, we're rubbing 2 sticks together to make fire. 49 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:21.540 Yeah. 50 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:28.620 You've got to be, you've got to be modern enough, I think, in order for characters to be able to understand what's going on if they're meeting the doctor. 51 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:39.120 And I think, too, that there is a kind of Victorian sort of feel to the doctor's character anyway as that sort of eccentric inventor adventurer thing. 52 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:41.639 No, no, like it's a bit steampunk. 53 00:04:41.699 --> 00:04:46.319 Especially, especially with Eccleston and his TARDIS. 54 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:53.639 Like they're that sort of steampunk sort of, you know, Jules Verne kind of... 55 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.500 Yeah, there's a lot of brass. 56 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:58.980 Yeah, you can understand why that meshes so well. 57 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:04.319 I like the fact that they build it around an historical character. 58 00:05:04.379 --> 00:05:08.819 It's something that Doctor Who has done before in the Common Baker era with George Stevenson. 59 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:19.980 And here, you've got Simon Callow, who's the go to for playing Charles Dickens in every theatre production, television spectacle on the BBC, ITV, whatever it happens to be. 60 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:27.120 And I always like it when the doctor meets a real historical character who has some sort of journey with the doctor and there's some sort of influence of the doctor on that character. 61 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:38.100 Look, I think that this story is a little bit thin in a way that the end of the world's plot was thin and was really not the focus of the story. 62 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:43.740 Here, I think the focus of the story is kind of the various world views of all of the characters involved. 63 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.500 And Charles Dickens starts off. 64 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.420 He's tired and kind of estranged from his family. 65 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:54.600 I don't know the historical details about Dickens's family. 66 00:05:54.660 --> 00:05:59.699 And I do know that he didn't go to Cardiff and do a performance at any point that's made up. 67 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:09.600 But he's ready to do his performance and he is going on stage to tell the story of a Christmas carol and, you know, it's Christmas Eve. 68 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.540 This is a kind of proso Christmas episode. 69 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:28.379 And he kind of thinks he knows everything at this point, you know, that he knows what the world is like and doesn't think there's anything more to learn and he's cast off, you know, ideas of sort of superstition and ghosts and stuff like that. 70 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.399 And that's left the world sort of rather unenchanted. for him. 71 00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:39.420 Yeah, he's he's a he's a man who has no life left in him. 72 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.740 Tired of life. 73 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:41.279 Yes. 74 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:42.839 Yeah, I think so. 75 00:06:42.899 --> 00:06:46.560 Um, and he's he's the unquiet dead as well. 76 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.660 He is only a year away from his death, we learn at the end. 77 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:57.120 He dies the following year, but he doesn't have much life in him. 78 00:06:57.180 --> 00:07:06.300 And, you know, this is a story about sort of dead bodies wandering around the place, still doing the thing that they were going to do anyway in this sort of rather mechanical way. 79 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:12.120 And I do think that that is a sort of reasonably bleak commentary on the human condition, sort of generally. 80 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:27.000 They're terrifying you, miss. 81 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.660 Like, they really look terrifying, like the old biddy at the beginning. 82 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:35.160 I think their plan is to try and get the time vortex of the opening credits out of their mouth. 83 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:37.560 It doesn't quite work, but it's almost there. 84 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:43.860 But also when they're down in the cellar at the end where they all come to life and there's one of them that's just completely freaky when he turns to the camera. 85 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.100 Like I think they look really, really scary. 86 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:49.199 And that's all just done with makeup. 87 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:50.879 There were no prosthetics on any of those actors. 88 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.879 Does Doctor Who do zombies before these? 89 00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:55.560 I guess it does Captain Cook. 90 00:07:55.620 --> 00:07:58.980 That's the only zombie that I can think of for just a brief moment. 91 00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:02.819 It's certainly gone back to zombies quite a lot. 92 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:03.540 I think it has. 93 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:03.899 No. 94 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:04.980 No, they are, aren't they? 95 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.060 Like, I'm just trying to, my brain's trying to go like animated corpses, really. 96 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:09.720 Yeah. 97 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:11.939 And I mean, this whole story is about death. 98 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.339 It's set largely in a funeral parlour. 99 00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:21.240 And even sort of Gwyneth's spoiler alert at the end becomes an animated corpse as well. 100 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:23.579 Like there's dead people walking around. 101 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:29.339 And I do think they're sort of fabulously scary, but it is also wonderfully funny in places as well. 102 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:36.299 Certainly, the scene at the very beginning in the cold open is funny because of Sneed's reaction. 103 00:08:36.419 --> 00:08:47.879 So the old lady gets up and, you know, strangles her grandson and Sneed walks in, but instead of being horrified, It's something that he's seen before a whole bunch of times and he's sort of struggling. 104 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:50.220 You know, oh, it's happening again, you know. 105 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:52.740 Gwyneth, we've got another one. 106 00:08:54.659 --> 00:09:00.299 So all of that sort of atmospheric stuff is something that Gatus does particularly well. 107 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:03.539 We'll see him do it again in The Crimson Horror. 108 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:09.240 He's someone who loves the Victorian era and also loves the sort of trappings of traditional horror. 109 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:12.120 So Mark Gatis has written this. 110 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:16.379 So he's the 1st non-Russell T. Davies writer. 111 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.659 Yeah, that's true. for the new series. 112 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:24.240 And he will go on to play significant roles in Doctor Who? 113 00:09:24.299 --> 00:09:33.899 Well, at both as an actor and as a writer, he's written quite a large number of Doctor Who stories all the way through, you know, the 10 seasons that we've had. 114 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.059 And he was running for Big Finish. 115 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:45.419 He wrote Phantasmagoria, and Simon Callow's character gets to say, what sort of Phantasmagoria is this in such a stagey way? 116 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:48.360 And I kind of sit there going, oh, you shoehorned that reference. 117 00:09:48.419 --> 00:09:49.019 Oh, yeah. 118 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:50.399 Quite honestly. 119 00:09:50.460 --> 00:10:09.419 I, until that big finish your day came out, I'd never really heard of that word, like I've heard of Phantasms, but not Phantasmagoria, and then when this came out, I'm going, oh, please, like, it's a very Gaitus word and a very sort of Victorian word, you know, who knew that the vocabulary of the Time Lords could be so antediluvian? 120 00:10:09.659 --> 00:10:14.759 I think that Simon Kello delivers that line in such a stagey way. 121 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:18.840 It almost sounds like I'm going to say that I really get irritated by his performance. 122 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:22.320 I think it's very old school Doctor Who performance. 123 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:25.620 I could imagine him being a doctor back in the old days. 124 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:29.100 Like that sort of performance that he does give. 125 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:49.679 I think that he is capable of some subtlety too, and he certainly conveys the shift in Dickens mood throughout things, but it is, you know, we talk about the different performances where the sort of British tradition is to convey information about a character through their performance, and certainly that's what Callo's doing here. 126 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:58.320 Whereas there's a sort of more modern or more American approach where you're kind of trying to convey a real person's interior life. 127 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:03.840 And I think that, that's something that happens a little bit more in the new series as it goes on. 128 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:11.279 But certainly Callow is giving a very good performance, but a performance that would absolutely not be out of place in the old series. 129 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:18.840 You have to bear in mind also the lineage of of Simon Cullo as an actor. 130 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.539 He's a stage actor. 131 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.559 He's done a lot of Shakespeare, a lot of Dickens. 132 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:27.960 He is not a young man. 133 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:33.419 I think that very much feeds into the way he plays a part. 134 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:40.799 Like you say, It's not a bad performance, but it's a very actly performance. 135 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.500 And we've seen his Willy. 136 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:47.279 Not in, not in the unquiet dead, but in Room of a View. 137 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:54.779 He plays a sort of hilarious old reverend in a period piece, and there's sort of lots of running around naked with Rupert Graves. 138 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:56.340 I do love Rumour View. 139 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:56.700 Yeah. 140 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:59.639 There are 2 other performances which are central to this. 141 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:01.980 Mr. Sneed. 142 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.679 I think he does a really great job as the undertaker. 143 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:10.620 Well, because he does the sombre undertaker thing, but he also kind of drops that every so often to talk about stiffs. 144 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:12.179 It's tough. 145 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:19.500 He's kind of, uh, you know, shifty and appropriate and slightly creepy and he's got a perfect Dickens character name as well. 146 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.720 And of course, the other one is Eve Miles as Gwyneth. 147 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:27.779 I think it's a stunning, stunning performance. 148 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.759 And even watching it originally. 149 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:33.840 She just stands out, every scene that she is in. 150 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:35.460 She's magnetic on the screen. 151 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.159 And I can see why they would then cast her in torchwood. 152 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:38.759 Yeah. 153 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:42.840 Of course, she's the 1st of the torchwood people to appear here in Doctor Who. 154 00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:46.679 There will be one next week and one coming up later the season. 155 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:54.360 But there's classic series characters that stand out for me, like, you know, Pamela Salem as 2 or Amelia Rump. 156 00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:58.379 She's another one that just stands out when she's, she's just magnetic. 157 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.080 And I just think she's a tremendous actress. 158 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:16.980 And she just sells this character and her view of the world of that time and and when she shifts from having to be to go from being the maid or this insistent person in the house to her psychic ability. 159 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:20.220 Like, it's very subtle, but it's done so well. 160 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:31.320 I think that that scene, we talked last week about the scene where Rose and Rufallo speak, but we get a really tremendous scene with Eve Miles and Rose talking. 161 00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:40.620 And I've got to think that that has to be part of the script rather than something added for time reasons because it just sort of feeds thematically into everything that's going on. 162 00:13:40.679 --> 00:14:01.019 But the 2 of them are chatting in the kitchen, and we see a huge difference between the past and the present, which is not just, you know, frocks and hansom cabs and stuff like that, but it is about their conception of the universe and how different it is. 163 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.139 And kind of like Charles Dickens. 164 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:09.299 Rose lives in a kind of world that's sort of post-religion in a sense. 165 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:26.580 It seems very strange to us to hear about how Gwyneth went to Sunday school and that was where she had her education and that though her parents are dead, she's super confident that they're waiting up for her in heaven and that she'll rejoin them. 166 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:33.299 And Rose doesn't quite know how to react to that, and particularly since we discovering that scene that her father's dead. 167 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.740 And that's the 1st indication of Eve's psychic powers in this, isn't it? 168 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:45.539 Because she knows without having been told that Rose's father is dead and that she's been thinking a lot about him lately. 169 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:52.860 Yes, and she mentions the metal birds in the sky and then the darkness and we get the big bad wolf. 170 00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:55.259 What did you think of that at the time? 171 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:56.700 What did you think that was a reference to? 172 00:14:57.179 --> 00:15:03.840 I really had no idea, but I somehow knew that this word was significant to the season. 173 00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:05.879 I don't know if I'd been spoiled by it. 174 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:07.919 Like, I was suddenly from this point on looking for it. 175 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:15.000 Obviously next week it's going to be written on the side of the TARDIS, but there's suddenly 3 episodes in a row where it is, but am I misremembering? 176 00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:15.840 Can't remember, James. 177 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:23.100 I think the publicity for aliens of London, World War 3 had already started appearing. 178 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:37.080 So we probably saw a shot of the Tartars with Bad Wolf on the side and maybe that was deliberate on the part of the production team to sort of release that just before that episode went out so people would go, oh, is that on the Tartars? 179 00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:37.679 What does that mean? 180 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:38.820 And then they'd hear it in the episode? 181 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:43.200 Do you remember when they released all of the upcoming episode titles? 182 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:44.879 Like they actually released them all? 183 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:54.000 And I don't know whether it was by this point or not, but they didn't tell us that episode 12 was going to be called Bad Wolf. but all the other titles were kind of released. 184 00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:59.279 Like they even said, we're holding this back. we know what to spoil you or something to that effect. 185 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:08.580 I think of all of the new series, linking plot devices, arc storylines. 186 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:12.299 Bad Wolf is the one that I enjoy the most. 187 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:15.000 I'm not saying it's the best. 188 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:18.179 I think maybe it's because the subtlety of it for the most part. 189 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.620 Do you think also too, because it then comes back into play at certain points as well? 190 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:35.759 I actually wonder whether it's because at this point of watching Doctor Who, we don't know that it does season arcs, and so we don't know what to make of that. 191 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:45.480 We're so used to discrete stories, you know, and a lot of the time, all of the characters have forgotten the previous week's story in episode one of the next week's story. 192 00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:46.500 We never speak of it again. 193 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:51.120 I mean, there are exceptions to that, like in the heart and the era or the Davison era. 194 00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:55.080 But we don't know that Doctor Who does season arcs. 195 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.000 And so that does start to be intriguing. 196 00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:05.339 I actually think in context, the Big Bad Wolf sounds like it's going to be a reference to the doctor. 197 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:11.460 Or some sort, or the master or like a big villainous character at the end. 198 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:18.359 The fact that it turns out to be rose, spoiler alert, that twist is actually not what you expect. 199 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:34.380 The bad wolf is the iconic, frightening predator that humans are sort of threatened by, you know, the big bad wolf lives in a forest and eats people and it's a very, very old primal fear. 200 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.619 So I kind of like it in context. 201 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:48.000 I don't think it sticks out the same way the bad wolf scenario did last week and the phrase will be shoehorned in in some wildly inappropriate ways sort of coming up. 202 00:17:48.059 --> 00:18:03.000 But the mere fact that someone paints bad wolf onto the TARDIS next episode made me think at the time that it was about the doctor, you know, that thing that we said about the doctor last week where he brings death and destruction in his wake, that there's something dangerous about him. 203 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:14.579 And so I like that scene and I certainly like the way that Eve Miles delivers that line because she's immediately frightened by what she's seen and by what she's said. 204 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.799 I'm not a huge fan of Bad Wolf. 205 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:26.099 I really didn't like, at the time, the resolution of it. 206 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.480 I thought, 0 god, that's so weak. 207 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:32.279 But I have grown to like it a lot more now. 208 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:37.559 And over time too, when it comes back into playing, like it's a very powerful. 209 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:44.220 Whenever it comes up, it's like, ooh, you know, unlike you are not alone or whatever, you know. 210 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.700 But that whole scene, both of those 2 actresses. 211 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:53.640 They just totally kill that scene. in a good way. 212 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:55.619 I think it's a really good scene as well. 213 00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:25.980 It's well written in the sense that we are given the opportunity to see that the world has changed in more ways than just our means of transportation and the population density and, you know, our architecture, that we think in fundamentally different ways about the world and what it's like, and that that's all told in a fairly believable, interesting scene, which is acted by 2 superb performers. 214 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:35.160 I mean, I don't know how much time we're going to spend talking about what a great actor Billy Piper is, but it almost certainly won't be enough. 215 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:37.259 I mean she is amazing. 216 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:39.779 And Eve Miles is amazing in that scene. 217 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:45.539 In this season. really just kills it and she doesn't has this subtlety. 218 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.200 I don't know whether and we'll talk about this later in season two. 219 00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:53.339 I think the performance does change, but I think in this season, she's new. 220 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.299 She's really into it, and she just sells so many things. 221 00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.259 Yeah. 222 00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:04.319 And again, last story, we had a confrontation between the doctor and Rose. 223 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:17.940 And again, in this story, we're going to have one over not only Gwyneth's involvement in the events that are about to occur, but in allowing pity the Gelf to inhabit cadavers. 224 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:27.420 Yeah, and I think too, that that confrontation is a mirror of the conversation between Rose and Gwyneth that we just talked about. 225 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:36.539 So the doctor has a different morality from Rose, and he's not really prepared to put up with her take on this. 226 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:42.000 Rose doesn't think that we should allow the Gelf to inhabit human cadavers. 227 00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:55.920 But her reason for that is that it's just wrong or it's just improper, that she has an idea, which we all share, that we need to treat dead bodies respectfully, that that would be desecrating the dead. 228 00:20:55.980 --> 00:21:07.259 But, you know, the doctor is beyond that belief, in the same way that rose is beyond Gwyneth's kind of simplistic Sunday school take on religion. 229 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:27.180 And it's a little bit like what they do in an unearthly child, where Barbara and Ian confront the sort of futuristic Dr. and Susan in episode one and then they become the people from the future in episodes 2 to 4. 230 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:31.079 And I think that that's a sort of very deliberate thing. 231 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.140 And certainly I like that a great deal. 232 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:46.380 And I do like too, the way that Rose is shown to be wrong about Gwyneth, but Gwyneth isn't stupid despite the fact that she has this belief about heaven and angels and things like that. 233 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:57.900 And she is entitled to her own agency, that she's entitled to make decisions for herself in her own world, in her own time, in which she finds herself. 234 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.019 And again, it's another one that Eve Miles plays beautifully. 235 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:01.619 Do you know what I mean? 236 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.819 She's not angry at Rose. 237 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:12.539 She smiles at Rose, but sort of gently castigates her for, you know, thinking that she's stupid and refusing to allow her to make her own decision. 238 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.200 I mean, all those sequences are brilliantly paid by all three. 239 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:21.059 And it's easy to forget these early disagreements between Rose and the doctors. 240 00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:31.500 We're discovering their relationship and their building their relationship and how they come to their different point of views and can work together to overcome an obstacle or a problem. 241 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:40.980 The girls are interesting because when they appear, like, Pity the Gelf, as I just said. 242 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:48.059 As a classic series fan, you're going, okay, like, yeah, pity the girl for, right, but honestly, they're going to be evil. 243 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.559 I remember thinking of this at the time, I was like, I really wanted them not to be evil. 244 00:22:52.680 --> 00:23:08.519 You know, Modron and those guys who look, they're all set up to be evil and they've got horrible spaghetti brains and stuff like that, but instead they're kind of merely tragic and like Doctor Who has gone for periods of time where it's not that interested in evil aliens. 245 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.819 It could have even been something like Modern Undead, and I'd never thought I would say that. 246 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.599 Where the twist is that they're desperate. 247 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:28.559 I mean, and it is pointed out that they are desperate, but then they're made to be unequivocally evil. 248 00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:30.299 In that last scene. 249 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:31.559 Like, you know. 250 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:37.440 Oh yes, you know, like we're not just doing this because we we need to survive. 251 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:42.480 We're doing this because we've decided to invade your world and take care of the entire population. 252 00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:43.500 Yeah. 253 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:51.720 Maybe it's also modern storytelling in that you've got to keep heightening the tension and the odds and the danger in that last act. 254 00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:56.220 Like if suddenly they were all good and we'll just transport you in the TARDIS, you'd be there going, really? 255 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.220 Like, oh, like it could be a bit of a letdown. 256 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:20.400 So, I mean, I think it's one of the things with Doctor Who is that it writes itself into that corner where you've got that denouement that has to happen. whether you agree with it or not, or whether it seems cliche or not. 9 times out of 10, that's where we're going to go and we're so early on in the series, we really need to go there because if we didn't, it'd be a fizzler and people would go, hmm. 257 00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:24.660 You kind of really need to establish the pattern before you break it. 258 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:34.619 And we don't have the luxury of an audience that's watched all the way through Doctor Who, like, you know, or who's cared about it. 259 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.900 And so I think you are kind of stuck with that idea. 260 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:40.019 But it's not an idea that the program started with. 261 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:46.440 I mean, I know that we had the Daleks, but, you know, that 1st season also has the sensorites and various other things happening. 262 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:55.920 And I think we tend to date the shows kind of obsession with monsters as a kind of artefact of the Patrick Troughton era. 263 00:24:55.980 --> 00:25:07.500 And, you know, the Patrick Trouton era is full of bases under siege where the monsters are outside is trying to get in and there's that sort of very cold war feel to that conception of monsters. 264 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:18.180 And here, you've got these people who are presenting as refugees, who are victims of a war that they didn't start. 265 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.000 And they mentioned the time war. 266 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:27.180 So it's sort of like the stakes of this time war have just been raised again, and it seems to be affecting everyone. 267 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:33.240 Well, the nestines as well, remember in rows that their feeding planets had been destroyed in the time war as well. 268 00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:42.000 So these are people who come in need of help, and then suddenly the moment that we let them in, we discover that they're evil. 269 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.640 And the doctor is culpable for that. 270 00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:46.140 Yeah, yeah, he's to blame. 271 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:51.960 No, we don't know that. yet, but he feels guilty, which is why he chooses to help them really. 272 00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:55.680 He's driven by his guilt for having been in that war. 273 00:25:55.859 --> 00:26:09.299 So when this episode comes out, Lawrence Miles, who was a new adventures author and a sort of famous internet curmudgeon, attacked Mark Gaters for writing something that seemed to be hostile to refugees. 274 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:24.240 And it's hard to avoid that, you know, there's certainly some truth to that, but it seems massively unlikely that Gaitis would, like we know Gaitis and we have some idea of his politics and his personality and stuff like that. 275 00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:27.779 It seems massively unlikely that that was something that he intended to say. 276 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.200 He's not Hazman and Lincoln, for God's sake. 277 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:36.000 You could argue that he should have been aware of the possible reading of that. 278 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:38.759 But it's a problem with Doctor Who, isn't it? 279 00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:49.619 And it's a thing that Doctor Who does try and escape, but the fact of the matter is it's the doctor meeting monsters in various locations and defeating them. the outsiders are generally evil. 280 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:50.339 Yeah exactly. 281 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:57.299 And I guess you need to be aware of events that are going on in the world and how things can be read into what you're writing. 282 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:02.279 You need to think about how that's structured and how that's delivered and when that goes out. 283 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:10.319 I mean, you've mentioned all this now, but I didn't even think of it at the time and until you mentioned it, I hadn't really picked up on it. 284 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:13.500 Yeah, well, you wonder if the Zigons in Terror of the Zigons are the same. 285 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:14.279 Do you know what I mean? 286 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:16.019 Their world's been destroyed, they come to earth. 287 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:17.640 I mean, they don't ask for help, do they? 288 00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:20.099 They just smash up oil rigs and stuff. 289 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:27.960 But, you know, it is something built into the program that is sometimes problematic and that the show sometimes interrogates. 290 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.799 Yes, in a much better way in many more years. 291 00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.960 Well, even next week. 292 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:46.619 We're going to have a story which has a massively obvious subtext that is deliberately intended to comment on contemporary politics, but that's not what Gatus tends to do. 293 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:53.759 Gatus tends to go for kind of nostalgia and stuff in a way, maybe that sort of Bob Holmes and Terrence Dix did. 294 00:27:53.819 --> 00:28:00.839 You know, you get all that inadvertent racism which you get at the beginning of pyramids of Mars or all the way through talons of Weng Chiang. 295 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.720 And it's not because Holmes is necessarily a big racist. 296 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:18.059 It's just that he likes to trade in nostalgia and he is writing stories set in a world with racial attitudes that we now recognises pretty appalling. 297 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:28.559 So I'm not sure that the tone of the attack was necessarily fair, but it's not without some sort of foundation anyway. 298 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:44.039 The death of the Gwyneth character is interesting because like, the doctor says she's already been dead for 5 minutes, but her essence is still alive. 299 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.059 Like, it sort of does my head in a bit to try and think about that. 300 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:56.460 I mean, obviously the girl for sustaining her because she is the gateway, but she has enough of her own personality to still destroy them or close that gateway. 301 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:07.980 But it's something often in the writing of the new series with Russell, where I kind of go, if I think about that, I don't understand it, and I'm not going to think about it because it just does my headache. 302 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:22.740 I actually think that there's a deliberate thing going on there because as we said before, Dickens comes to us living in a world emptied of kind of magic and wonder where everything is sort of well understood and well categorised. 303 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:25.440 Do you know, like light in ghost light? 304 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:34.500 His aim is as a sort of Victorian kind of character, to have everything catalogued and understood and have a world that's... 305 00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.299 Enlightenment thinking. 306 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:38.880 Yeah, everything that's very pinned down. 307 00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:42.779 So you're saying that here we're presented with magic. 308 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:53.700 Yeah, well, so he is initially annoyed or upset that he appears to be wrong about ghosts that they apparently exist and so do mediums and things like that. 309 00:29:53.819 --> 00:30:06.119 But then eventually he uses his knowledge of science to draw the Gelf out of the zombies and prevent their attack by opening all the gas. 310 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.940 You know, he clearly knows something about... 311 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:09.720 Bones and burners. 312 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:26.460 And so then he's sort of excited by the world again, the world is full of things that he doesn't know yet and that he doesn't understand and he finds that thrilling and invigorating and we find him sort of brought back to life at the end. 313 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:32.099 And then he turns to the doctor and says, and you know, this thing about Gwyneth being dead for 5 minutes. 314 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.740 You don't understand that either, doctor. 315 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.700 There's more things than I dreamt of in your philosophy. 316 00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:51.119 And that's not just directed to him. directed at the doctor. and I think that there is a deliberate attempt to leave that unexplained, to have that as something magical that not even the doctor understands. 317 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:59.400 Look, I think the death of Gwyneth is also a, is a deliberate parallel between the character of Rose. 318 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:01.920 She's a shop girl. 319 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.380 You know, she doesn't have an education. 320 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.319 She doesn't have much going for her, in her own words. 321 00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:10.619 Um, when you meet her in the series. 322 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:15.900 And and there's that last line, you know, she was a, you know, she was a servant. 323 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.940 Yeah, no one believes. 324 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.200 Seven girl, Save the World. 325 00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:20.759 No one will even know. 326 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:32.819 And it says sort of normal, ordinary people can change the world, which is something that is woven throughout Russell's era of Doctor Who. 327 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:40.859 And even Moffatt, who I think shows a great deal of respect and affection for Russell's Doctor Who, picks up on that as well. 328 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:50.579 Do you remember the line in a Christmas carol where the doctor says, you know, in so many 100 years of travelling through time and space, he's never just met anyone who doesn't matter. 329 00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:55.319 The idea that ordinary people are important that they matter. 330 00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.119 Yeah, it's a nice sentiment. 331 00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:59.460 He also says to Gwyneth, I'm sorry. 332 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:05.220 And it's interesting, like, in the new series, it often says like, I'm sorry, so sorry. 333 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:15.299 And all the doctors sort of say that, but it hasn't, that phrase hasn't quite formulated yet, but you watch these early episodes and next week as well. 334 00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:18.059 And the doctor will say sorry at a certain time. 335 00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:25.559 It doesn't necessarily, I'm sorry, but it's just something that I picked up on when I was watching this, that it wasn't quite the phrase that he always goes with. 336 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:32.700 But the gestation of this, I'm sorry, so sorry business is just something that I think is starting. 337 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:37.019 I wonder what it's for, actually, because he does it next week. 338 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:42.299 You know, he actually will say sorry next week to another character who's died. 339 00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:50.160 And like there's an attempt this week to portray him as alien and having a sort of advanced morality or a different morality from us. 340 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:58.200 And that's something that Doctor Who probably hasn't done explicitly so much before, although it has happened from time to time, I think. 341 00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:15.720 But is it that there's a kind of level of realism in modern television that doesn't allow us to just let people get killed and then never mention it again, but you don't want to weigh the story down with a lot of handwringing and mourning and stuff. 342 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:25.619 And you need to show the lead character of this series where a lot of people die is feeling something for all the people that are dying around him. 343 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:32.700 So when he witnesses it, you have to draw attention to the fact that he feels remorse for them for their needless death. 344 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:36.480 In a way where, in the classic series, it's just like, bang. 345 00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:40.619 Yeah, now that whole bus exploded and we'll never mention those people again. 346 00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:43.980 Lord, we're going back to that. 347 00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:46.440 Sorry, listeners, I've blocked that out of my mind. 348 00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:55.140 I always liked to think that the bus had actually managed to dematerialise before it was blown up, indulge the better man. 349 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:55.799 It was terrible. 350 00:33:55.859 --> 00:33:57.779 Um, the direction. 351 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.599 Neurosthen has directed these 2 episodes in this block. 352 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:11.099 I do think, and also in the 1st episode, and even in the next episode, I do think at times, some of the direction when it comes to really tense scenes. 353 00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:15.179 The way it's cut together, I kind of think, oh my goodness, just get on with it. 354 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:23.340 Like in the 1st episode, yeah, Jackie, you know, with the mannequins going to fire at her and then it cuts to rose and I just kind of think that's a bit... 355 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:26.639 It's a bit cut, it cuts backwards and forwards way too much. 356 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:27.840 It's too slow. 357 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.579 And then like, it belabours the point. 358 00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:34.980 And next week, again, Paul Jackie is menaced in the kitchen, but by all means, like that thing takes forever to kill her. 359 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:40.139 This week, I find that down in the cellar when they go behind the... 360 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:41.940 Like there's a grill, isn't there? 361 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.820 And it just seems to go on and on, I'm thinking, oh, my goodness. 362 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.440 I can't they get in there? 363 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:47.699 Like, it's just ridiculous. 364 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:56.940 But then there's this conversation that Rose has with the doctor, which has never sat well with me about her dying in the past, but I don't, it makes no sense. 365 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:26.699 Look, and fans at the time were like, oh, wow, this is, you know, this is the modern series redoing that classic Pyramids of Mars scene where, you know, the doctor takes Sarah to 1980 and says, 1980, Sarah, if you want to get off and shows her that if, if they don't stop Sutek in 1911, her future will be destroyed and she says, oh, I'm from 1980. and time is in flux, he says, time is in flux. 366 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.880 That's what they're trying to get at with this. 367 00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:31.800 But she says it works. 368 00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:34.500 I'm born in the present, but how can I die in the past? 369 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:36.780 And that's where it loses me. 370 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:42.900 Because it's like, in pyramids, it's very much a, well, I am from the future. 371 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.300 If my past is destroyed, then I'm dead. 372 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.039 I never existed. 373 00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:53.460 Whereas this is saying, I think the line is can be born in the 20th century and die in the 19th. 374 00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:56.400 Well, yes, that's obvious. 375 00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.159 If you've got a time machine. 376 00:35:59.219 --> 00:35:59.699 Yeah. 377 00:35:59.699 --> 00:36:04.079 Um, that scene always fell flat with me in Unquiet Dead. 378 00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:05.940 Is that because we're classic series fans? 379 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:06.719 Yeah, I think so. 380 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:07.920 We're looking at it through that lens. 381 00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:14.340 I think probably that is an instance of underestimating the audience a little bit. 382 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:22.320 I think it was the right decision to have the doctor explain that your whole world could be rewritten in an instant. 383 00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:23.340 That's what he says. 384 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:33.119 And that's the right thing to do, and we establish that there can still be stakes in a story set in the past. 385 00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:37.440 Now, in practice, we know that that won't actually happen. 386 00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:43.019 You know, that the Doctor Who story set in the past don't actually tend to rewrite history completely. 387 00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:49.920 With, well, we get the exception of the next doctor, of course, which does very strange things to the past. 388 00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:52.739 But generally speaking, that's not something that Doctor Who does. 389 00:36:52.800 --> 00:37:05.460 But I think that the audience is literate enough with the kind of basic tropes of science fiction to understand that the characters themselves can still be killed if they go back in the past. 390 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:10.800 It just isn't an objection that makes sense and it does make Rose seem a bit stupid. 391 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:19.019 But she seems to be playing it as if she's trying to convince herself of that in a tight spot as well. 392 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:20.099 Do you know what I mean? 393 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.800 The objection is, I can't die in the past. 394 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:30.659 And the reason that she really wants to think that is that she's behind this flimsy grate being sort of threatened by a whole bunch of zombies. 395 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.719 But yeah, no, I think I probably have the same feeling as you. 396 00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:36.119 I'm not quite sure why we needed to be told that. 397 00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.460 But and without that line, it works. 398 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:47.760 Without that one line it works, you know, it's it does write the character as as being stupider than she normally is. 399 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:48.900 Normally she's very smart. 400 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.920 Yeah, and I mean, you can explain that away. you know, she's about to die. 401 00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:56.519 She's freaking out, but that scene just doesn't really work for me. 402 00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:17.460 The one thing that we haven't really talked about is the fact that here we talk about the rift, a weak point in time and space, which the TARDIS will use to refuel. 403 00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:25.260 It'll also be the central point of torture, but it's introduced here in this episode, which again is significant, but we don't realise that yet. 404 00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:32.340 I think that they're trying to find excuses to set stories in Cardiff because it's BBC Wales. 405 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:36.719 So if we've got this, then they have to come back to Cardiff in the present, in the future. 406 00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:42.480 And that's our budget and this riff thing is going to be significant, it's a device. 407 00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:44.519 I don't think it's just a budget thing too. 408 00:38:44.579 --> 00:38:49.800 I think it's actually a locally produced TV drama thing. 409 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:54.780 I think you actually had to set some of it in Wales originally at the beginning. 410 00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:56.760 Yeah, onto the BBC's guidelines. 411 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:58.019 I could be misremembering that. 412 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:04.559 No, but I can understand that they would want to show Wales because it is a Welsh production. 413 00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:14.280 There's lots of Welsh voices a lot more than you kind of might expect and we've got Boomtown later in the series where we go back to Cardiff. 414 00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:17.940 But we don't actually end up going back to Cardiff very much at all. 415 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:35.519 It doesn't seem to be something that we pick up on and we kind of seem to delegate the responsibility for representing Cardiff to the spinoff torchwood, where the rift is doing the job of, you know, the hell mouth or whatever the hell it is in class that lets all those aliens come through. 416 00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:36.900 Whatever the hell about. 417 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:38.940 Who cares, people? 418 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:39.480 Who cares? 419 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.719 I do love the shadow reference. 420 00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:46.500 Where? 421 00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.039 What? 422 00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:58.739 First left, 2nd right, 3rd on the left, goes straight ahead, under the stairs, past the bins, 5th door on your left, and he's telling her where to find the wardrobe. is a reference to Shada. 423 00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 424 00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:05.219 It's great you brought that up because, like, we don't see the rest of the Tartars, we can't afford the rest of the Tartars. 425 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:06.539 For another 5 seasons. 426 00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:12.000 Well, no, for a while, but it's telling people that it's more than just this one room. 427 00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:14.039 I like that it has been as well. 428 00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.260 I wonder who collects the bins. 429 00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:24.780 It might be that cyberman that was left in the TARDIS after Earthshock who got a job as a bin man and he empties the doctor's beins. 430 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:25.679 That's just my theory. 431 00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:27.119 It's Dodo. 432 00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:35.280 So like Utah, I'm a little bit surprised that we managed to go this long on this, because it is a first. 433 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:46.920 So there are things to say about it, but it's not one, I have to say that I look back with a great deal of affection, and it does seem to be a little bit disposable. 434 00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:49.139 You know, it's well directed. 435 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:50.219 It has some good images. 436 00:40:50.280 --> 00:41:03.780 It's nice to see what the BBC in 2005 can do to recreate the past, but I guess the big thing about it is the introduction of Eve Miles to the kind of world of Doctor Who. 437 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.500 Yeah, I quite liked it when I watched it again. 438 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:12.000 But it's not something that I want to necessarily revisit. 439 00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:13.679 Like, I'm happy to watch End of the World again. 440 00:41:13.739 --> 00:41:19.800 Like, of these 1st three, like, that's the one that I like to go back and possibly rewatch. 441 00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:25.920 I like rose, but it's rough around the edges, whereas I think end of the world for me is much funnier and polished. 442 00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:29.159 I would say that over and over again. 443 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:40.739 This is the thing I noticed on rewatching the series recently is Series one looks like someone smeared Vaseline on the lens. 444 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.739 Everything's in soft focus. 445 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:58.380 There's a sort of glossy kids show thing, but I know what you mean, particularly there's some scenes, and I think partly because it's emphasising gaslight for plot reasons here, that it is sort of slightly hazy and stuff like that. 446 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.800 But that's that's the case throughout series one. 447 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.619 Not so much in series two, series one. 448 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:21.000 It reminds me of of season one of RuPaul's Drag Race, which is referred to by many people as the lost season because logo that the channel that's on basically didn't ever repeat it. 449 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:29.820 And they'd have this crazy soft focus on the lens, which didn't lend itself well to review it. 450 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:30.360 Right. 451 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:33.300 You would think it would just be there to help the drag queens out, though, presumably. 452 00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:34.920 Or maybe Rue. 453 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:42.659 I also think, too, that we're doing an episode per episode. 454 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:55.619 We're doing an FT episode per episode of Doctor Who, but there's a real way in which this season isn't quite structured the way that a Doctor Who season used to be in that it has more continuity. 455 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:58.860 It is more of an adventure. 456 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:08.400 And thinking of the unquiet dead as something that you might just pop on a Blu-ray player one afternoon to watch something. 457 00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:13.019 That's not the original intended context of it. 458 00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:27.659 And certainly this season, not just with the arc, not just with the bad wolf arc, but just generally speaking, is one big giant adventure that the doctor and Rose go on that goes to different places. 459 00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:29.820 And so there's a buildup. 460 00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:41.340 You know, we learn more about the doctor, Rose and the doctor, their relationship changes, Rose's relationship with all of her friends and her mother and stuff changes throughout it. 461 00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:48.900 And so, you know, the Unquiet Dead doesn't have to be a giant blockbuster that we're hugely excited to tune into. 462 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:55.260 It's just there, you know, if we were to decide to rewatch series one again. 463 00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.340 And I think, you know, it does a good job when seen in that line. 464 00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.480 Well, then, sir, that's all we've got time for this week. 465 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:34.739 We've been away for a while, so we really should head back home to Earth just in time for aliens to invade for the very first time. 466 00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:40.679 So tune in next week for our first ever FTE Guest Spot, it's aliens of London. 467 00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:49.260 In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 468 00:44:49.320 --> 00:45:04.019 Over on Bondfinger, if you feel like the James Bond films would be improved by listening to us talking nonsensically all of the way through, then why not catch up with us at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and at bondfingercast on Twitter. 469 00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:13.440 Until next time, may your worldview remain unchallenged by Gas Monsters, happy mediums are a surprisingly sci-fi ending to the mystery of Edwin Drood. 470 00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:15.420 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 471 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:16.500 See you soon. 472 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:17.519 Ta-ta. 473 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:26.340 That was slightly entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley, and James Selwood. 474 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.300 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Orberg. 475 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:36.840 This episode, outside is trying to get in, was recorded on the 11th of June 2018 and released on the 9th of September. 476 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:51.719 Here at FDE Home Insurance, customers are warm, but turning on all the gas taps in the house to exorcise the whispering voices in the basement may result in an abrupt and cataclysmic cancellation of your policy. 477 00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:55.860 Okay. anything else? 478 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:57.239 There's nothing else. 479 00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.039 Do you hear me? 480 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:00.360 Do you hear me? 481 00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:02.639 longer on this than we did on the other one. 482 00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:04.800 Cut out, God, it's a lot to cut. 483 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:06.960 All right. 484 00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:09.000 I'm going to try the outro. 485 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.179 Did I mention the wicker placement? 486 00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:16.980 The wicker-faced aliens of the Sisterhood of the Wicker Place match. 487 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.920 I actually thought that they looked like the ends of cigarette. 488 00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:22.619 They were cigarette, they say. 489 00:46:22.619 --> 00:46:23.460 Before we recorded. 490 00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:31.079 They were Ret Condas, the scholars of the University of Rocco, Rago, 56 Rocco in the comic book. 491 00:46:31.139 --> 00:46:32.699 God's sake. 492 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.239 Oh, there you go. from a straightforward planet, either they're from a university. 493 00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:41.820 And Davies had intended to bring them back in Journey's end in the shadow. 494 00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:43.079 Oh, he was going to bring everything. 495 00:46:43.139 --> 00:46:43.500 Yeah. 496 00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:46.139 Have you ever seen have you got the writer's tale? 497 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:47.699 Yeah. 498 00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:58.980 Because Davies is a cartoonist, like, and he's a really skilled cartoonist, and he draws this picture of the shadow proclamation with, like, literally every alien that they've ever had on the show in the background. 499 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:00.239 It's just so great. 500 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:01.559 He's so good. 501 00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:10.679 We'll talk more about him next week, James, because we're going to have we're going to have pics of the week, but we're only going to do them in episode twos. 502 00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:16.260 We can't do it at the end of the season because that would mean we would just never end up doing them. 503 00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:22.139 You know, you know, they've now reconned the psychic paper back to the 2nd doctor. 504 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:25.500 Can we? 505 00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:26.159 Let's record the thing. 506 00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:27.119 Let's record the thing. 507 00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:28.980 Yeah, because it's getting on for 12. 508 00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:29.880 Yeah. 509 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.079 We want to go out to lunch. 510 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.420 Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week. 511 00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:37.920 We've been away for a while. 512 00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:38.880 No, let me try that again. 513 00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:39.119 Sorry. 514 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:42.780 Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week. 515 00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.000 We've been away for. 516 00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:48.059 We've been away for a while, so we really should back. 517 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.039 We've been away for a while. 518 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:51.059 Yeah, back. 519 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:52.079 Where's Brendan? 520 00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:53.579 Why isn't Brenda doing this? 521 00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:56.820 His contract came to an end. 522 00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:57.539 That's it. 523 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.420 He had to marry Andred and stay behind on Gala. 524 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.099 He's been evicted from life. 525 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.960 God, I love that story. 526 00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:07.860 Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week.