WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:31:14 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.079 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.560 the only Doctor Who podcast, whose hosts have all the clothes and 3 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.619 the breeding, but who talk like some sort of wild things. 4 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:47.700 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:48.899 I'm Todd. 6 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:50.039 I'm James. 7 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:54.179 We're back in the Victorian era, like the talons of Wing Chiang 8 00:00:54.179 --> 00:00:55.560 only slightly less racist. 9 00:00:55.619 --> 00:00:57.179 It's 1869. 10 00:00:57.659 --> 00:01:01.259 We in Cardiff disappointingly, and it's time to confront the 11 00:01:01.259 --> 00:01:02.219 Unquiet Dead. 12 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:19.560 So, my depressing thought about all of this is that we're all the 13 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:20.700 unquiet dead. 14 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:24.480 We're all, sooner or later, dead, and we're still wandering around 15 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:29.159 and making noises and recording podcasts and things like that's 16 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:30.060 never going to happen. 17 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:32.400 Right, that's the end of this. 18 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:33.239 Okay. 19 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:34.980 That's all we have to say. 20 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:41.819 So, Todd, we have been to the future and now we're in the past. 21 00:01:41.939 --> 00:01:45.719 We are, and I think this is what Russell's setting up that we have 22 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:46.319 a present. 23 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:47.340 We have the future. 24 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.760 We have the past, past, past, and future, and that's going to be 25 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:55.920 the go to for the next few seasons where one of these 3 episodes 26 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.980 will be in the present one will be in the future one will be in 27 00:01:58.980 --> 00:02:00.180 the past and then we'll have a 2 parter. 28 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:01.379 So it's a template. 29 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.620 I think, like, he does it, and then Moffatt does it in his 1st 30 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:07.140 season as well in series 5. 31 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:11.039 And I think that he does it again in his last series when he's 32 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:11.759 introducing Bill. 33 00:02:11.819 --> 00:02:13.919 He does the go to the future. go to the past. 34 00:02:13.979 --> 00:02:17.219 But it is so important because, like, we've got to see the Doctor 35 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:18.419 Who can do the past. 36 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.419 Like if we hold off any longer, that would be a problem. 37 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.219 People wouldn't know that that's what to expect. 38 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.340 It would be too jarring and it would probably impact negatively on 39 00:02:26.340 --> 00:02:27.000 the ratings as well. 40 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:31.439 In fact, there's a whole long periods of time where Doctor Who 41 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:33.300 doesn't do the past at all. 42 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:39.360 So in the Pertuy era, we basically have a bit of the time monster 43 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.759 and then the time warrior. 44 00:02:41.819 --> 00:02:44.879 But apart from that, we don't go to the past at all. 45 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:48.539 And, you know, there's a lot of space corridors in the Graham 46 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:49.439 Williams era. 47 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:51.240 I don't think we do the past there. 48 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:53.639 So there are long periods of time where we don't go to the past. 49 00:02:53.699 --> 00:02:56.580 Remember the visitation when it finally came along. 50 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:00.659 It was kind of like, 0 my goodness, it's a period piece and we 51 00:03:00.659 --> 00:03:03.300 just haven't done that on Doctor Who for a while. 52 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:07.139 And I think the new series has to go back to the past because it's 53 00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:10.680 not going to be a story of space corridors anymore. 54 00:03:10.740 --> 00:03:13.560 It's got to show us that it can do a whole bunch of different 55 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:13.919 things. 56 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:17.219 And this era, the BBC do so well. 57 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:18.300 Yeah. 58 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:19.080 Well, that's right. 59 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:20.460 That's always said, isn't it? 60 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:25.259 Whenever anyone mentions things like horror fang rock or talons of 61 00:03:25.259 --> 00:03:28.800 Wang Sheyang, all of which are set sort of within a few decades of 62 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.500 this, you know, they just do it very well. 63 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.080 And here I think they do it better than they've ever done. 64 00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:36.900 You've got massive locations. 65 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.500 You've got that incredible theatre that they use, which is packed 66 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:41.460 full of extras. 67 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.419 You've got great outdoors, things and coaches and horses and 68 00:03:45.419 --> 00:03:46.620 stuff. 69 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.219 I mean, it's only in those sequences at the beginning, and then 70 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:52.319 you get into the house, but they use it very effectively. 71 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:59.099 It also, it probably sets up a template, which the new series 72 00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:03.240 tends to get stuck in, which is, when we go to the past, it 73 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:06.000 generally is always the Victorian era in the new series. 74 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.520 Not always, but generally. 75 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:13.860 I don't mind that because it's an age of before our modern 76 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:15.120 technology, right? 77 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:19.379 But it's not so far in the past that it's like, we're rubbing 2 78 00:04:19.379 --> 00:04:21.000 sticks together to make fire. 79 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:21.540 Yeah. 80 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:25.680 You've got to be, you've got to be modern enough, I think, in 81 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:27.839 order for characters to be able to understand what's going on if 82 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:28.620 they're meeting the doctor. 83 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:33.899 And I think, too, that there is a kind of Victorian sort of feel 84 00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:36.839 to the doctor's character anyway as that sort of eccentric 85 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:39.120 inventor adventurer thing. 86 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:41.639 No, no, like it's a bit steampunk. 87 00:04:41.699 --> 00:04:46.319 Especially, especially with Eccleston and his TARDIS. 88 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:52.620 Like they're that sort of steampunk sort of, you know, Jules Verne 89 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:53.639 kind of... 90 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.500 Yeah, there's a lot of brass. 91 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:58.980 Yeah, you can understand why that meshes so well. 92 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:03.899 I like the fact that they build it around an historical 93 00:05:03.899 --> 00:05:04.319 character. 94 00:05:04.379 --> 00:05:07.319 It's something that Doctor Who has done before in the Common Baker 95 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:08.819 era with George Stevenson. 96 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:12.839 And here, you've got Simon Callow, who's the go to for playing 97 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:17.279 Charles Dickens in every theatre production, television spectacle 98 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:19.980 on the BBC, ITV, whatever it happens to be. 99 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:23.339 And I always like it when the doctor meets a real historical 100 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:25.379 character who has some sort of journey with the doctor and there's 101 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:27.120 some sort of influence of the doctor on that character. 102 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.759 Look, I think that this story is a little bit thin in a way that 103 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:37.139 the end of the world's plot was thin and was really not the focus 104 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:38.100 of the story. 105 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:41.819 Here, I think the focus of the story is kind of the various world 106 00:05:41.819 --> 00:05:43.740 views of all of the characters involved. 107 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.500 And Charles Dickens starts off. 108 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.420 He's tired and kind of estranged from his family. 109 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:54.600 I don't know the historical details about Dickens's family. 110 00:05:54.660 --> 00:05:58.500 And I do know that he didn't go to Cardiff and do a performance at 111 00:05:58.500 --> 00:05:59.699 any point that's made up. 112 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:05.939 But he's ready to do his performance and he is going on stage to 113 00:06:05.939 --> 00:06:09.060 tell the story of a Christmas carol and, you know, it's Christmas 114 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:09.600 Eve. 115 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.540 This is a kind of proso Christmas episode. 116 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.199 And he kind of thinks he knows everything at this point, you know 117 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:20.519 that he knows what the world is like and doesn't think there's 118 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:25.860 anything more to learn and he's cast off, you know, ideas of sort 119 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:28.379 of superstition and ghosts and stuff like that. 120 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.399 And that's left the world sort of rather unenchanted. for him. 121 00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:39.420 Yeah, he's he's a he's a man who has no life left in him. 122 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.740 Tired of life. 123 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:41.279 Yes. 124 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:42.839 Yeah, I think so. 125 00:06:42.899 --> 00:06:46.560 Um, and he's he's the unquiet dead as well. 126 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.660 He is only a year away from his death, we learn at the end. 127 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:57.120 He dies the following year, but he doesn't have much life in him. 128 00:06:57.180 --> 00:07:00.720 And, you know, this is a story about sort of dead bodies wandering 129 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:03.899 around the place, still doing the thing that they were going to do 130 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:06.300 anyway in this sort of rather mechanical way. 131 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:09.839 And I do think that that is a sort of reasonably bleak commentary 132 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.120 on the human condition, sort of generally. 133 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:27.000 They're terrifying you, miss. 134 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.360 Like, they really look terrifying, like the old biddy at the 135 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:30.660 beginning. 136 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.959 I think their plan is to try and get the time vortex of the 137 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:35.160 opening credits out of their mouth. 138 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:37.560 It doesn't quite work, but it's almost there. 139 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:39.660 But also when they're down in the cellar at the end where they all 140 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:42.600 come to life and there's one of them that's just completely freaky 141 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:43.860 when he turns to the camera. 142 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.100 Like I think they look really, really scary. 143 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:49.199 And that's all just done with makeup. 144 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:50.879 There were no prosthetics on any of those actors. 145 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.879 Does Doctor Who do zombies before these? 146 00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:55.560 I guess it does Captain Cook. 147 00:07:55.620 --> 00:07:58.620 That's the only zombie that I can think of for just a brief 148 00:07:58.620 --> 00:07:58.980 moment. 149 00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:02.819 It's certainly gone back to zombies quite a lot. 150 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:03.540 I think it has. 151 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:03.899 No. 152 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:04.980 No, they are, aren't they? 153 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:08.339 Like, I'm just trying to, my brain's trying to go like animated 154 00:08:08.339 --> 00:08:09.060 corpses, really. 155 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:09.720 Yeah. 156 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:11.939 And I mean, this whole story is about death. 157 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.339 It's set largely in a funeral parlour. 158 00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:19.319 And even sort of Gwyneth's spoiler alert at the end becomes an 159 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:21.240 animated corpse as well. 160 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:23.579 Like there's dead people walking around. 161 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:26.339 And I do think they're sort of fabulously scary, but it is also 162 00:08:26.339 --> 00:08:29.339 wonderfully funny in places as well. 163 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:33.720 Certainly, the scene at the very beginning in the cold open is 164 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.299 funny because of Sneed's reaction. 165 00:08:36.419 --> 00:08:40.980 So the old lady gets up and, you know, strangles her grandson and 166 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:44.399 Sneed walks in, but instead of being horrified, It's something 167 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.279 that he's seen before a whole bunch of times and he's sort of 168 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:47.879 struggling. 169 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:50.220 You know, oh, it's happening again, you know. 170 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:52.740 Gwyneth, we've got another one. 171 00:08:54.659 --> 00:08:59.279 So all of that sort of atmospheric stuff is something that Gatus 172 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:00.299 does particularly well. 173 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:03.539 We'll see him do it again in The Crimson Horror. 174 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.440 He's someone who loves the Victorian era and also loves the sort 175 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.240 of trappings of traditional horror. 176 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:12.120 So Mark Gatis has written this. 177 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:16.379 So he's the 1st non-Russell T. Davies writer. 178 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.659 Yeah, that's true. for the new series. 179 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:24.240 And he will go on to play significant roles in Doctor Who? 180 00:09:24.299 --> 00:09:28.200 Well, at both as an actor and as a writer, he's written quite a 181 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:32.639 large number of Doctor Who stories all the way through, you know 182 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:33.899 the 10 seasons that we've had. 183 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.059 And he was running for Big Finish. 184 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:40.740 He wrote Phantasmagoria, and Simon Callow's character gets to say 185 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:45.419 what sort of Phantasmagoria is this in such a stagey way? 186 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:48.360 And I kind of sit there going, oh, you shoehorned that reference. 187 00:09:48.419 --> 00:09:49.019 Oh, yeah. 188 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:50.399 Quite honestly. 189 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:53.279 I, until that big finish your day came out, I'd never really heard 190 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:57.299 of that word, like I've heard of Phantasms, but not Phantasmagoria 191 00:09:57.299 --> 00:10:01.440 and then when this came out, I'm going, oh, please, like, it's a 192 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.399 very Gaitus word and a very sort of Victorian word, you know, who 193 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.340 knew that the vocabulary of the Time Lords could be so 194 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:09.419 antediluvian? 195 00:10:09.659 --> 00:10:14.759 I think that Simon Kello delivers that line in such a stagey way. 196 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:18.059 It almost sounds like I'm going to say that I really get irritated 197 00:10:18.059 --> 00:10:18.840 by his performance. 198 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:22.320 I think it's very old school Doctor Who performance. 199 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:25.620 I could imagine him being a doctor back in the old days. 200 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:29.100 Like that sort of performance that he does give. 201 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:33.120 I think that he is capable of some subtlety too, and he certainly 202 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:40.019 conveys the shift in Dickens mood throughout things, but it is, you 203 00:10:40.019 --> 00:10:42.840 know, we talk about the different performances where the sort of 204 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:45.360 British tradition is to convey information about a character 205 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:49.440 through their performance, and certainly that's what Callo's doing 206 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:49.679 here. 207 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:53.039 Whereas there's a sort of more modern or more American approach 208 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:57.960 where you're kind of trying to convey a real person's interior 209 00:10:57.960 --> 00:10:58.320 life. 210 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:02.220 And I think that, that's something that happens a little bit more 211 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:03.840 in the new series as it goes on. 212 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:07.080 But certainly Callow is giving a very good performance, but a 213 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:10.679 performance that would absolutely not be out of place in the old 214 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:11.279 series. 215 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:18.480 You have to bear in mind also the lineage of of Simon Cullo as an 216 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:18.840 actor. 217 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.539 He's a stage actor. 218 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.559 He's done a lot of Shakespeare, a lot of Dickens. 219 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:27.960 He is not a young man. 220 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:33.419 I think that very much feeds into the way he plays a part. 221 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:40.379 Like you say, It's not a bad performance, but it's a very actly 222 00:11:40.379 --> 00:11:40.799 performance. 223 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.500 And we've seen his Willy. 224 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:47.279 Not in, not in the unquiet dead, but in Room of a View. 225 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:51.360 He plays a sort of hilarious old reverend in a period piece, and 226 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:54.779 there's sort of lots of running around naked with Rupert Graves. 227 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:56.340 I do love Rumour View. 228 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:56.700 Yeah. 229 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:59.639 There are 2 other performances which are central to this. 230 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:01.980 Mr. Sneed. 231 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.679 I think he does a really great job as the undertaker. 232 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:07.740 Well, because he does the sombre undertaker thing, but he also 233 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:10.620 kind of drops that every so often to talk about stiffs. 234 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:12.179 It's tough. 235 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:16.019 He's kind of, uh, you know, shifty and appropriate and slightly 236 00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:19.500 creepy and he's got a perfect Dickens character name as well. 237 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.720 And of course, the other one is Eve Miles as Gwyneth. 238 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:27.779 I think it's a stunning, stunning performance. 239 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.759 And even watching it originally. 240 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:33.840 She just stands out, every scene that she is in. 241 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:35.460 She's magnetic on the screen. 242 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.159 And I can see why they would then cast her in torchwood. 243 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:38.759 Yeah. 244 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:42.299 Of course, she's the 1st of the torchwood people to appear here in 245 00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:42.840 Doctor Who. 246 00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:46.679 There will be one next week and one coming up later the season. 247 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:50.279 But there's classic series characters that stand out for me, like 248 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.360 you know, Pamela Salem as 2 or Amelia Rump. 249 00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:57.899 She's another one that just stands out when she's, she's just 250 00:12:57.899 --> 00:12:58.379 magnetic. 251 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.080 And I just think she's a tremendous actress. 252 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:05.340 And she just sells this character and her view of the world of 253 00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:11.279 that time and and when she shifts from having to be to go from 254 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:15.899 being the maid or this insistent person in the house to her 255 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:16.980 psychic ability. 256 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:20.220 Like, it's very subtle, but it's done so well. 257 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.539 I think that that scene, we talked last week about the scene where 258 00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:29.399 Rose and Rufallo speak, but we get a really tremendous scene with 259 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:31.320 Eve Miles and Rose talking. 260 00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:35.340 And I've got to think that that has to be part of the script 261 00:13:35.340 --> 00:13:38.279 rather than something added for time reasons because it just sort 262 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.620 of feeds thematically into everything that's going on. 263 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:45.240 But the 2 of them are chatting in the kitchen, and we see a huge 264 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:51.539 difference between the past and the present, which is not just, you 265 00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:56.879 know, frocks and hansom cabs and stuff like that, but it is about 266 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.019 their conception of the universe and how different it is. 267 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.139 And kind of like Charles Dickens. 268 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:09.059 Rose lives in a kind of world that's sort of post-religion in a 269 00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:09.299 sense. 270 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:15.539 It seems very strange to us to hear about how Gwyneth went to 271 00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:20.279 Sunday school and that was where she had her education and that 272 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.220 though her parents are dead, she's super confident that they're 273 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:26.580 waiting up for her in heaven and that she'll rejoin them. 274 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:30.360 And Rose doesn't quite know how to react to that, and particularly 275 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.299 since we discovering that scene that her father's dead. 276 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.259 And that's the 1st indication of Eve's psychic powers in this 277 00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:37.740 isn't it? 278 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:42.720 Because she knows without having been told that Rose's father is 279 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.539 dead and that she's been thinking a lot about him lately. 280 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:51.000 Yes, and she mentions the metal birds in the sky and then the 281 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:52.860 darkness and we get the big bad wolf. 282 00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:55.259 What did you think of that at the time? 283 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:56.700 What did you think that was a reference to? 284 00:14:57.179 --> 00:15:01.679 I really had no idea, but I somehow knew that this word was 285 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.840 significant to the season. 286 00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:05.879 I don't know if I'd been spoiled by it. 287 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:07.919 Like, I was suddenly from this point on looking for it. 288 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.440 Obviously next week it's going to be written on the side of the 289 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.559 TARDIS, but there's suddenly 3 episodes in a row where it is, but 290 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.000 am I misremembering? 291 00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:15.840 Can't remember, James. 292 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:20.940 I think the publicity for aliens of London, World War 3 had 293 00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:23.100 already started appearing. 294 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:27.899 So we probably saw a shot of the Tartars with Bad Wolf on the side 295 00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:32.100 and maybe that was deliberate on the part of the production team 296 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:35.399 to sort of release that just before that episode went out so 297 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:37.080 people would go, oh, is that on the Tartars? 298 00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:37.679 What does that mean? 299 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:38.820 And then they'd hear it in the episode? 300 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:42.419 Do you remember when they released all of the upcoming episode 301 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:43.200 titles? 302 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:44.879 Like they actually released them all? 303 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.700 And I don't know whether it was by this point or not, but they 304 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:52.440 didn't tell us that episode 12 was going to be called Bad Wolf. but 305 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.000 all the other titles were kind of released. 306 00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:56.940 Like they even said, we're holding this back. we know what to 307 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.279 spoil you or something to that effect. 308 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:07.259 I think of all of the new series, linking plot devices, arc 309 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:08.580 storylines. 310 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:12.299 Bad Wolf is the one that I enjoy the most. 311 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:15.000 I'm not saying it's the best. 312 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:18.179 I think maybe it's because the subtlety of it for the most part. 313 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.600 Do you think also too, because it then comes back into play at 314 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.620 certain points as well? 315 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:28.200 I actually wonder whether it's because at this point of watching 316 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:34.259 Doctor Who, we don't know that it does season arcs, and so we 317 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:35.759 don't know what to make of that. 318 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:40.679 We're so used to discrete stories, you know, and a lot of the time 319 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:43.740 all of the characters have forgotten the previous week's story in 320 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:45.480 episode one of the next week's story. 321 00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:46.500 We never speak of it again. 322 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.500 I mean, there are exceptions to that, like in the heart and the 323 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.120 era or the Davison era. 324 00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:55.080 But we don't know that Doctor Who does season arcs. 325 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.000 And so that does start to be intriguing. 326 00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:01.139 I actually think in context, the Big Bad Wolf sounds like it's 327 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:05.339 going to be a reference to the doctor. 328 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:11.099 Or some sort, or the master or like a big villainous character at 329 00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:11.460 the end. 330 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.140 The fact that it turns out to be rose, spoiler alert, that twist 331 00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:18.359 is actually not what you expect. 332 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:23.579 The bad wolf is the iconic, frightening predator that humans are 333 00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:28.920 sort of threatened by, you know, the big bad wolf lives in a 334 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:34.380 forest and eats people and it's a very, very old primal fear. 335 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.619 So I kind of like it in context. 336 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.559 I don't think it sticks out the same way the bad wolf scenario did 337 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:45.900 last week and the phrase will be shoehorned in in some wildly 338 00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:48.000 inappropriate ways sort of coming up. 339 00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:51.180 But the mere fact that someone paints bad wolf onto the TARDIS 340 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:54.599 next episode made me think at the time that it was about the 341 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.539 doctor, you know, that thing that we said about the doctor last 342 00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:01.019 week where he brings death and destruction in his wake, that 343 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:03.000 there's something dangerous about him. 344 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:08.339 And so I like that scene and I certainly like the way that Eve 345 00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:12.000 Miles delivers that line because she's immediately frightened by 346 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.579 what she's seen and by what she's said. 347 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.799 I'm not a huge fan of Bad Wolf. 348 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:26.099 I really didn't like, at the time, the resolution of it. 349 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.480 I thought, 0 god, that's so weak. 350 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:32.279 But I have grown to like it a lot more now. 351 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:36.779 And over time too, when it comes back into playing, like it's a 352 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:37.559 very powerful. 353 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:42.599 Whenever it comes up, it's like, ooh, you know, unlike you are not 354 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.220 alone or whatever, you know. 355 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.700 But that whole scene, both of those 2 actresses. 356 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:53.640 They just totally kill that scene. in a good way. 357 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:55.619 I think it's a really good scene as well. 358 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:59.099 It's well written in the sense that we are given the opportunity 359 00:18:59.099 --> 00:19:04.079 to see that the world has changed in more ways than just our means 360 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.279 of transportation and the population density and, you know, our 361 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.539 architecture, that we think in fundamentally different ways about 362 00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:19.920 the world and what it's like, and that that's all told in a fairly 363 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:25.319 believable, interesting scene, which is acted by 2 superb 364 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:25.980 performers. 365 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.000 I mean, I don't know how much time we're going to spend talking 366 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.200 about what a great actor Billy Piper is, but it almost certainly 367 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:35.160 won't be enough. 368 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:37.259 I mean she is amazing. 369 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:39.779 And Eve Miles is amazing in that scene. 370 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:45.000 In this season. really just kills it and she doesn't has this 371 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:45.539 subtlety. 372 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.720 I don't know whether and we'll talk about this later in season 373 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.200 two. 374 00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:52.140 I think the performance does change, but I think in this season 375 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:53.339 she's new. 376 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.299 She's really into it, and she just sells so many things. 377 00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.259 Yeah. 378 00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:03.599 And again, last story, we had a confrontation between the doctor 379 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.319 and Rose. 380 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.220 And again, in this story, we're going to have one over not only 381 00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:11.940 Gwyneth's involvement in the events that are about to occur, but 382 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:17.940 in allowing pity the Gelf to inhabit cadavers. 383 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:23.400 Yeah, and I think too, that that confrontation is a mirror of the 384 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.420 conversation between Rose and Gwyneth that we just talked about. 385 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:32.759 So the doctor has a different morality from Rose, and he's not 386 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.539 really prepared to put up with her take on this. 387 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.859 Rose doesn't think that we should allow the Gelf to inhabit human 388 00:20:40.859 --> 00:20:42.000 cadavers. 389 00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:45.720 But her reason for that is that it's just wrong or it's just 390 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.140 improper, that she has an idea, which we all share, that we need 391 00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:55.140 to treat dead bodies respectfully, that that would be desecrating 392 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:55.920 the dead. 393 00:20:55.980 --> 00:21:00.839 But, you know, the doctor is beyond that belief, in the same way 394 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:05.519 that rose is beyond Gwyneth's kind of simplistic Sunday school 395 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:07.259 take on religion. 396 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:12.779 And it's a little bit like what they do in an unearthly child 397 00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:17.940 where Barbara and Ian confront the sort of futuristic Dr. and 398 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:24.240 Susan in episode one and then they become the people from the 399 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.180 future in episodes 2 to 4. 400 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:31.079 And I think that that's a sort of very deliberate thing. 401 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.140 And certainly I like that a great deal. 402 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.279 And I do like too, the way that Rose is shown to be wrong about 403 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:42.960 Gwyneth, but Gwyneth isn't stupid despite the fact that she has 404 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.380 this belief about heaven and angels and things like that. 405 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:51.960 And she is entitled to her own agency, that she's entitled to make 406 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:56.940 decisions for herself in her own world, in her own time, in which 407 00:21:56.940 --> 00:21:57.900 she finds herself. 408 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.019 And again, it's another one that Eve Miles plays beautifully. 409 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:01.619 Do you know what I mean? 410 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.819 She's not angry at Rose. 411 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:08.460 She smiles at Rose, but sort of gently castigates her for, you 412 00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:11.579 know, thinking that she's stupid and refusing to allow her to make 413 00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:12.539 her own decision. 414 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.200 I mean, all those sequences are brilliantly paid by all three. 415 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.579 And it's easy to forget these early disagreements between Rose and 416 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:21.059 the doctors. 417 00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:23.460 We're discovering their relationship and their building their 418 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:26.640 relationship and how they come to their different point of views 419 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:31.500 and can work together to overcome an obstacle or a problem. 420 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:40.019 The girls are interesting because when they appear, like, Pity the 421 00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:40.980 Gelf, as I just said. 422 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.240 As a classic series fan, you're going, okay, like, yeah, pity the 423 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.059 girl for, right, but honestly, they're going to be evil. 424 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.240 I remember thinking of this at the time, I was like, I really 425 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.559 wanted them not to be evil. 426 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.759 You know, Modron and those guys who look, they're all set up to be 427 00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:59.700 evil and they've got horrible spaghetti brains and stuff like that 428 00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:03.599 but instead they're kind of merely tragic and like Doctor Who has 429 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.920 gone for periods of time where it's not that interested in evil 430 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.519 aliens. 431 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:13.799 It could have even been something like Modern Undead, and I'd 432 00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:14.819 never thought I would say that. 433 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.599 Where the twist is that they're desperate. 434 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:24.299 I mean, and it is pointed out that they are desperate, but then 435 00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:28.559 they're made to be unequivocally evil. 436 00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:30.299 In that last scene. 437 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:31.559 Like, you know. 438 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:36.359 Oh yes, you know, like we're not just doing this because we we 439 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:37.440 need to survive. 440 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:41.160 We're doing this because we've decided to invade your world and 441 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:42.480 take care of the entire population. 442 00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:43.500 Yeah. 443 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:47.279 Maybe it's also modern storytelling in that you've got to keep 444 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.819 heightening the tension and the odds and the danger in that last 445 00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:51.720 act. 446 00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:53.940 Like if suddenly they were all good and we'll just transport you 447 00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:56.220 in the TARDIS, you'd be there going, really? 448 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.220 Like, oh, like it could be a bit of a letdown. 449 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:02.460 So, I mean, I think it's one of the things with Doctor Who is that 450 00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:07.319 it writes itself into that corner where you've got that denouement 451 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.220 that has to happen. whether you agree with it or not, or whether 452 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.819 it seems cliche or not. 9 times out of 10, that's where we're 453 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.519 going to go and we're so early on in the series, we really need to 454 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:19.920 go there because if we didn't, it'd be a fizzler and people would 455 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.400 go, hmm. 456 00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:24.299 You kind of really need to establish the pattern before you break 457 00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:24.660 it. 458 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:30.299 And we don't have the luxury of an audience that's watched all the 459 00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:34.619 way through Doctor Who, like, you know, or who's cared about it. 460 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.900 And so I think you are kind of stuck with that idea. 461 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:40.019 But it's not an idea that the program started with. 462 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.779 I mean, I know that we had the Daleks, but, you know, that 1st 463 00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:45.900 season also has the sensorites and various other things 464 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:46.440 happening. 465 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:51.420 And I think we tend to date the shows kind of obsession with 466 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:55.920 monsters as a kind of artefact of the Patrick Troughton era. 467 00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:58.920 And, you know, the Patrick Trouton era is full of bases under 468 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:03.420 siege where the monsters are outside is trying to get in and 469 00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:06.839 there's that sort of very cold war feel to that conception of 470 00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:07.500 monsters. 471 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:14.220 And here, you've got these people who are presenting as refugees 472 00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:18.180 who are victims of a war that they didn't start. 473 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.000 And they mentioned the time war. 474 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:24.299 So it's sort of like the stakes of this time war have just been 475 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:27.180 raised again, and it seems to be affecting everyone. 476 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:31.140 Well, the nestines as well, remember in rows that their feeding 477 00:25:31.140 --> 00:25:33.240 planets had been destroyed in the time war as well. 478 00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:39.119 So these are people who come in need of help, and then suddenly 479 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:42.000 the moment that we let them in, we discover that they're evil. 480 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.640 And the doctor is culpable for that. 481 00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:46.140 Yeah, yeah, he's to blame. 482 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.519 No, we don't know that. yet, but he feels guilty, which is why he 483 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:51.960 chooses to help them really. 484 00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:55.680 He's driven by his guilt for having been in that war. 485 00:25:55.859 --> 00:26:00.180 So when this episode comes out, Lawrence Miles, who was a new 486 00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:03.779 adventures author and a sort of famous internet curmudgeon 487 00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:07.680 attacked Mark Gaters for writing something that seemed to be 488 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:09.299 hostile to refugees. 489 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:15.180 And it's hard to avoid that, you know, there's certainly some 490 00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:19.680 truth to that, but it seems massively unlikely that Gaitis would 491 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.859 like we know Gaitis and we have some idea of his politics and his 492 00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:24.240 personality and stuff like that. 493 00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:26.940 It seems massively unlikely that that was something that he 494 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:27.779 intended to say. 495 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.200 He's not Hazman and Lincoln, for God's sake. 496 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:35.220 You could argue that he should have been aware of the possible 497 00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:36.000 reading of that. 498 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:38.759 But it's a problem with Doctor Who, isn't it? 499 00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:42.720 And it's a thing that Doctor Who does try and escape, but the fact 500 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.599 of the matter is it's the doctor meeting monsters in various 501 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.619 locations and defeating them. the outsiders are generally evil. 502 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:50.339 Yeah exactly. 503 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:54.000 And I guess you need to be aware of events that are going on in 504 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.299 the world and how things can be read into what you're writing. 505 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.720 You need to think about how that's structured and how that's 506 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.279 delivered and when that goes out. 507 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:06.420 I mean, you've mentioned all this now, but I didn't even think of 508 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:09.960 it at the time and until you mentioned it, I hadn't really picked 509 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:10.319 up on it. 510 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:13.259 Yeah, well, you wonder if the Zigons in Terror of the Zigons are 511 00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:13.500 the same. 512 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:14.279 Do you know what I mean? 513 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:16.019 Their world's been destroyed, they come to earth. 514 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:17.640 I mean, they don't ask for help, do they? 515 00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:20.099 They just smash up oil rigs and stuff. 516 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:23.640 But, you know, it is something built into the program that is 517 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.960 sometimes problematic and that the show sometimes interrogates. 518 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.799 Yes, in a much better way in many more years. 519 00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.960 Well, even next week. 520 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:39.240 We're going to have a story which has a massively obvious subtext 521 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:43.559 that is deliberately intended to comment on contemporary politics 522 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.619 but that's not what Gatus tends to do. 523 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:50.940 Gatus tends to go for kind of nostalgia and stuff in a way, maybe 524 00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.759 that sort of Bob Holmes and Terrence Dix did. 525 00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:57.420 You know, you get all that inadvertent racism which you get at the 526 00:27:57.420 --> 00:27:59.940 beginning of pyramids of Mars or all the way through talons of 527 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:00.839 Weng Chiang. 528 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.720 And it's not because Holmes is necessarily a big racist. 529 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:11.099 It's just that he likes to trade in nostalgia and he is writing 530 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:15.839 stories set in a world with racial attitudes that we now 531 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.059 recognises pretty appalling. 532 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:25.079 So I'm not sure that the tone of the attack was necessarily fair 533 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.559 but it's not without some sort of foundation anyway. 534 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:39.000 The death of the Gwyneth character is interesting because like, the 535 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:43.140 doctor says she's already been dead for 5 minutes, but her essence 536 00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:44.039 is still alive. 537 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.700 Like, it sort of does my head in a bit to try and think about 538 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:48.059 that. 539 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.339 I mean, obviously the girl for sustaining her because she is the 540 00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:54.119 gateway, but she has enough of her own personality to still 541 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.460 destroy them or close that gateway. 542 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.779 But it's something often in the writing of the new series with 543 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.619 Russell, where I kind of go, if I think about that, I don't 544 00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:07.079 understand it, and I'm not going to think about it because it just 545 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:07.980 does my headache. 546 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.339 I actually think that there's a deliberate thing going on there 547 00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:16.019 because as we said before, Dickens comes to us living in a world 548 00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:19.259 emptied of kind of magic and wonder where everything is sort of 549 00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:22.740 well understood and well categorised. 550 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:25.440 Do you know, like light in ghost light? 551 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:30.720 His aim is as a sort of Victorian kind of character, to have 552 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.500 everything catalogued and understood and have a world that's... 553 00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.299 Enlightenment thinking. 554 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:38.880 Yeah, everything that's very pinned down. 555 00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:42.779 So you're saying that here we're presented with magic. 556 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:48.240 Yeah, well, so he is initially annoyed or upset that he appears to 557 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.920 be wrong about ghosts that they apparently exist and so do mediums 558 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:53.700 and things like that. 559 00:29:53.819 --> 00:30:01.200 But then eventually he uses his knowledge of science to draw the 560 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:05.579 Gelf out of the zombies and prevent their attack by opening all 561 00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:06.119 the gas. 562 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.940 You know, he clearly knows something about... 563 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:09.720 Bones and burners. 564 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:15.720 And so then he's sort of excited by the world again, the world is 565 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.960 full of things that he doesn't know yet and that he doesn't 566 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:24.059 understand and he finds that thrilling and invigorating and we 567 00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.460 find him sort of brought back to life at the end. 568 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.819 And then he turns to the doctor and says, and you know, this thing 569 00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:32.099 about Gwyneth being dead for 5 minutes. 570 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.740 You don't understand that either, doctor. 571 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.700 There's more things than I dreamt of in your philosophy. 572 00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:42.240 And that's not just directed to him. directed at the doctor. and I 573 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.099 think that there is a deliberate attempt to leave that unexplained 574 00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:50.339 to have that as something magical that not even the doctor 575 00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:51.119 understands. 576 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:56.160 Look, I think the death of Gwyneth is also a, is a deliberate 577 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.400 parallel between the character of Rose. 578 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:01.920 She's a shop girl. 579 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.380 You know, she doesn't have an education. 580 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.319 She doesn't have much going for her, in her own words. 581 00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:10.619 Um, when you meet her in the series. 582 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:15.240 And and there's that last line, you know, she was a, you know, she 583 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:15.900 was a servant. 584 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.940 Yeah, no one believes. 585 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.200 Seven girl, Save the World. 586 00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:20.759 No one will even know. 587 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:25.680 And it says sort of normal, ordinary people can change the world 588 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:32.220 which is something that is woven throughout Russell's era of 589 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:32.819 Doctor Who. 590 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.200 And even Moffatt, who I think shows a great deal of respect and 591 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.859 affection for Russell's Doctor Who, picks up on that as well. 592 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.859 Do you remember the line in a Christmas carol where the doctor 593 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:47.519 says, you know, in so many 100 years of travelling through time 594 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:50.579 and space, he's never just met anyone who doesn't matter. 595 00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:55.319 The idea that ordinary people are important that they matter. 596 00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.119 Yeah, it's a nice sentiment. 597 00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:59.460 He also says to Gwyneth, I'm sorry. 598 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:04.259 And it's interesting, like, in the new series, it often says like 599 00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:05.220 I'm sorry, so sorry. 600 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:08.519 And all the doctors sort of say that, but it hasn't, that phrase 601 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:13.319 hasn't quite formulated yet, but you watch these early episodes 602 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:15.299 and next week as well. 603 00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:18.059 And the doctor will say sorry at a certain time. 604 00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:21.720 It doesn't necessarily, I'm sorry, but it's just something that I 605 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:24.119 picked up on when I was watching this, that it wasn't quite the 606 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:25.559 phrase that he always goes with. 607 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:31.200 But the gestation of this, I'm sorry, so sorry business is just 608 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:32.700 something that I think is starting. 609 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:37.019 I wonder what it's for, actually, because he does it next week. 610 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.559 You know, he actually will say sorry next week to another 611 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.299 character who's died. 612 00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:46.380 And like there's an attempt this week to portray him as alien and 613 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:49.319 having a sort of advanced morality or a different morality from 614 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:50.160 us. 615 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:53.220 And that's something that Doctor Who probably hasn't done 616 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:57.720 explicitly so much before, although it has happened from time to 617 00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.200 time, I think. 618 00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:04.140 But is it that there's a kind of level of realism in modern 619 00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:08.819 television that doesn't allow us to just let people get killed and 620 00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:13.019 then never mention it again, but you don't want to weigh the story 621 00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:15.720 down with a lot of handwringing and mourning and stuff. 622 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.339 And you need to show the lead character of this series where a lot 623 00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:24.660 of people die is feeling something for all the people that are 624 00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:25.619 dying around him. 625 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:29.279 So when he witnesses it, you have to draw attention to the fact 626 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.700 that he feels remorse for them for their needless death. 627 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:36.480 In a way where, in the classic series, it's just like, bang. 628 00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.900 Yeah, now that whole bus exploded and we'll never mention those 629 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:40.619 people again. 630 00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:43.980 Lord, we're going back to that. 631 00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:46.440 Sorry, listeners, I've blocked that out of my mind. 632 00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:51.299 I always liked to think that the bus had actually managed to 633 00:33:51.299 --> 00:33:55.140 dematerialise before it was blown up, indulge the better man. 634 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:55.799 It was terrible. 635 00:33:55.859 --> 00:33:57.779 Um, the direction. 636 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.599 Neurosthen has directed these 2 episodes in this block. 637 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.220 I do think, and also in the 1st episode, and even in the next 638 00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:09.539 episode, I do think at times, some of the direction when it comes 639 00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:11.099 to really tense scenes. 640 00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:14.699 The way it's cut together, I kind of think, oh my goodness, just 641 00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:15.179 get on with it. 642 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.420 Like in the 1st episode, yeah, Jackie, you know, with the 643 00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:21.719 mannequins going to fire at her and then it cuts to rose and I 644 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:23.340 just kind of think that's a bit... 645 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:26.639 It's a bit cut, it cuts backwards and forwards way too much. 646 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:27.840 It's too slow. 647 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.579 And then like, it belabours the point. 648 00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:32.940 And next week, again, Paul Jackie is menaced in the kitchen, but 649 00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:34.980 by all means, like that thing takes forever to kill her. 650 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:38.639 This week, I find that down in the cellar when they go behind 651 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.139 the... 652 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:41.940 Like there's a grill, isn't there? 653 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.820 And it just seems to go on and on, I'm thinking, oh, my goodness. 654 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.440 I can't they get in there? 655 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:47.699 Like, it's just ridiculous. 656 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.480 But then there's this conversation that Rose has with the doctor 657 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.079 which has never sat well with me about her dying in the past, but 658 00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:56.940 I don't, it makes no sense. 659 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:01.800 Look, and fans at the time were like, oh, wow, this is, you know 660 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:06.780 this is the modern series redoing that classic Pyramids of Mars 661 00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:11.940 scene where, you know, the doctor takes Sarah to 1980 and says 662 00:35:11.940 --> 00:35:17.460 1980, Sarah, if you want to get off and shows her that if, if they 663 00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:21.780 don't stop Sutek in 1911, her future will be destroyed and she 664 00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:26.400 says, oh, I'm from 1980. and time is in flux, he says, time is in 665 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:26.699 flux. 666 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.880 That's what they're trying to get at with this. 667 00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:31.800 But she says it works. 668 00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:34.500 I'm born in the present, but how can I die in the past? 669 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:36.780 And that's where it loses me. 670 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:42.239 Because it's like, in pyramids, it's very much a, well, I am from 671 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:42.900 the future. 672 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.300 If my past is destroyed, then I'm dead. 673 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.039 I never existed. 674 00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:51.719 Whereas this is saying, I think the line is can be born in the 675 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:53.460 20th century and die in the 19th. 676 00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:56.400 Well, yes, that's obvious. 677 00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.159 If you've got a time machine. 678 00:35:59.219 --> 00:35:59.699 Yeah. 679 00:35:59.699 --> 00:36:04.079 Um, that scene always fell flat with me in Unquiet Dead. 680 00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:05.940 Is that because we're classic series fans? 681 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:06.719 Yeah, I think so. 682 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:07.920 We're looking at it through that lens. 683 00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:13.559 I think probably that is an instance of underestimating the 684 00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:14.340 audience a little bit. 685 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:19.739 I think it was the right decision to have the doctor explain that 686 00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:22.320 your whole world could be rewritten in an instant. 687 00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:23.340 That's what he says. 688 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:28.920 And that's the right thing to do, and we establish that there can 689 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:33.119 still be stakes in a story set in the past. 690 00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:37.440 Now, in practice, we know that that won't actually happen. 691 00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:41.099 You know, that the Doctor Who story set in the past don't actually 692 00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:43.019 tend to rewrite history completely. 693 00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:47.699 With, well, we get the exception of the next doctor, of course 694 00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:49.920 which does very strange things to the past. 695 00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:52.440 But generally speaking, that's not something that Doctor Who 696 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:52.739 does. 697 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:58.619 But I think that the audience is literate enough with the kind of 698 00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:02.699 basic tropes of science fiction to understand that the characters 699 00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:05.460 themselves can still be killed if they go back in the past. 700 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.420 It just isn't an objection that makes sense and it does make Rose 701 00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:10.800 seem a bit stupid. 702 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:16.139 But she seems to be playing it as if she's trying to convince 703 00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:19.019 herself of that in a tight spot as well. 704 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:20.099 Do you know what I mean? 705 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.800 The objection is, I can't die in the past. 706 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.739 And the reason that she really wants to think that is that she's 707 00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:29.579 behind this flimsy grate being sort of threatened by a whole bunch 708 00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:30.659 of zombies. 709 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.719 But yeah, no, I think I probably have the same feeling as you. 710 00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:36.119 I'm not quite sure why we needed to be told that. 711 00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.460 But and without that line, it works. 712 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:42.360 Without that one line it works, you know, it's it does write the 713 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:47.760 character as as being stupider than she normally is. 714 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:48.900 Normally she's very smart. 715 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.559 Yeah, and I mean, you can explain that away. you know, she's about 716 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:52.920 to die. 717 00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:56.340 She's freaking out, but that scene just doesn't really work for 718 00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:56.519 me. 719 00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:07.739 The one thing that we haven't really talked about is the fact that 720 00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:14.099 here we talk about the rift, a weak point in time and space, which 721 00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:17.460 the TARDIS will use to refuel. 722 00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:20.820 It'll also be the central point of torture, but it's introduced 723 00:38:20.820 --> 00:38:24.659 here in this episode, which again is significant, but we don't 724 00:38:24.659 --> 00:38:25.260 realise that yet. 725 00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:30.059 I think that they're trying to find excuses to set stories in 726 00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:32.340 Cardiff because it's BBC Wales. 727 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.699 So if we've got this, then they have to come back to Cardiff in 728 00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:36.719 the present, in the future. 729 00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:40.079 And that's our budget and this riff thing is going to be 730 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.480 significant, it's a device. 731 00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:44.519 I don't think it's just a budget thing too. 732 00:38:44.579 --> 00:38:49.800 I think it's actually a locally produced TV drama thing. 733 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:54.300 I think you actually had to set some of it in Wales originally at 734 00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:54.780 the beginning. 735 00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:56.760 Yeah, onto the BBC's guidelines. 736 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:58.019 I could be misremembering that. 737 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:02.699 No, but I can understand that they would want to show Wales 738 00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:04.559 because it is a Welsh production. 739 00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:07.860 There's lots of Welsh voices a lot more than you kind of might 740 00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:13.440 expect and we've got Boomtown later in the series where we go back 741 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:14.280 to Cardiff. 742 00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:17.579 But we don't actually end up going back to Cardiff very much at 743 00:39:17.579 --> 00:39:17.940 all. 744 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:20.940 It doesn't seem to be something that we pick up on and we kind of 745 00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:26.340 seem to delegate the responsibility for representing Cardiff to 746 00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:30.360 the spinoff torchwood, where the rift is doing the job of, you 747 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:34.380 know, the hell mouth or whatever the hell it is in class that lets 748 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:35.519 all those aliens come through. 749 00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:36.900 Whatever the hell about. 750 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:38.940 Who cares, people? 751 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:39.480 Who cares? 752 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.719 I do love the shadow reference. 753 00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:46.500 Where? 754 00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.039 What? 755 00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:51.300 First left, 2nd right, 3rd on the left, goes straight ahead, under 756 00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:54.539 the stairs, past the bins, 5th door on your left, and he's telling 757 00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:58.739 her where to find the wardrobe. is a reference to Shada. 758 00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 759 00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:03.179 It's great you brought that up because, like, we don't see the 760 00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:05.219 rest of the Tartars, we can't afford the rest of the Tartars. 761 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:06.539 For another 5 seasons. 762 00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:11.340 Well, no, for a while, but it's telling people that it's more than 763 00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:12.000 just this one room. 764 00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:14.039 I like that it has been as well. 765 00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.260 I wonder who collects the bins. 766 00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:20.099 It might be that cyberman that was left in the TARDIS after 767 00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:24.300 Earthshock who got a job as a bin man and he empties the doctor's 768 00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:24.780 beins. 769 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:25.679 That's just my theory. 770 00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:27.119 It's Dodo. 771 00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:32.760 So like Utah, I'm a little bit surprised that we managed to go 772 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.280 this long on this, because it is a first. 773 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:39.000 So there are things to say about it, but it's not one, I have to 774 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.320 say that I look back with a great deal of affection, and it does 775 00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:46.920 seem to be a little bit disposable. 776 00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:49.139 You know, it's well directed. 777 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:50.219 It has some good images. 778 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:57.179 It's nice to see what the BBC in 2005 can do to recreate the past 779 00:40:57.179 --> 00:41:01.079 but I guess the big thing about it is the introduction of Eve 780 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:03.780 Miles to the kind of world of Doctor Who. 781 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.500 Yeah, I quite liked it when I watched it again. 782 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:12.000 But it's not something that I want to necessarily revisit. 783 00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:13.679 Like, I'm happy to watch End of the World again. 784 00:41:13.739 --> 00:41:18.119 Like, of these 1st three, like, that's the one that I like to go 785 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:19.800 back and possibly rewatch. 786 00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:23.280 I like rose, but it's rough around the edges, whereas I think end 787 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.920 of the world for me is much funnier and polished. 788 00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:29.159 I would say that over and over again. 789 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:35.820 This is the thing I noticed on rewatching the series recently is 790 00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:40.739 Series one looks like someone smeared Vaseline on the lens. 791 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.739 Everything's in soft focus. 792 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.340 There's a sort of glossy kids show thing, but I know what you mean 793 00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:51.059 particularly there's some scenes, and I think partly because it's 794 00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:56.400 emphasising gaslight for plot reasons here, that it is sort of 795 00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.380 slightly hazy and stuff like that. 796 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.800 But that's that's the case throughout series one. 797 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.619 Not so much in series two, series one. 798 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:10.739 It reminds me of of season one of RuPaul's Drag Race, which is 799 00:42:10.739 --> 00:42:17.460 referred to by many people as the lost season because logo that 800 00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:21.000 the channel that's on basically didn't ever repeat it. 801 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:26.820 And they'd have this crazy soft focus on the lens, which didn't 802 00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:29.820 lend itself well to review it. 803 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:30.360 Right. 804 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:32.579 You would think it would just be there to help the drag queens out 805 00:42:32.579 --> 00:42:33.300 though, presumably. 806 00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:34.920 Or maybe Rue. 807 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:42.659 I also think, too, that we're doing an episode per episode. 808 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.619 We're doing an FT episode per episode of Doctor Who, but there's a 809 00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:49.559 real way in which this season isn't quite structured the way that 810 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:55.619 a Doctor Who season used to be in that it has more continuity. 811 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:58.860 It is more of an adventure. 812 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:03.300 And thinking of the unquiet dead as something that you might just 813 00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:08.400 pop on a Blu-ray player one afternoon to watch something. 814 00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:13.019 That's not the original intended context of it. 815 00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:18.239 And certainly this season, not just with the arc, not just with 816 00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:23.219 the bad wolf arc, but just generally speaking, is one big giant 817 00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:26.880 adventure that the doctor and Rose go on that goes to different 818 00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:27.659 places. 819 00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:29.820 And so there's a buildup. 820 00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:33.840 You know, we learn more about the doctor, Rose and the doctor 821 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:38.460 their relationship changes, Rose's relationship with all of her 822 00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:41.340 friends and her mother and stuff changes throughout it. 823 00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:45.659 And so, you know, the Unquiet Dead doesn't have to be a giant 824 00:43:45.659 --> 00:43:48.900 blockbuster that we're hugely excited to tune into. 825 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:54.420 It's just there, you know, if we were to decide to rewatch series 826 00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:55.260 one again. 827 00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.340 And I think, you know, it does a good job when seen in that line. 828 00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.480 Well, then, sir, that's all we've got time for this week. 829 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:31.199 We've been away for a while, so we really should head back home to 830 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.739 Earth just in time for aliens to invade for the very first time. 831 00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.659 So tune in next week for our first ever FTE Guest Spot, it's 832 00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:40.679 aliens of London. 833 00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:44.699 In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com 834 00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:48.360 flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE 835 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:49.260 podcast on Twitter. 836 00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:53.400 Over on Bondfinger, if you feel like the James Bond films would be 837 00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:56.639 improved by listening to us talking nonsensically all of the way 838 00:44:56.639 --> 00:45:00.059 through, then why not catch up with us at bondfinger.com 839 00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:03.719 bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and at bondfingercast on 840 00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:04.019 Twitter. 841 00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:08.039 Until next time, may your worldview remain unchallenged by Gas 842 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.880 Monsters, happy mediums are a surprisingly sci-fi ending to the 843 00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:13.440 mystery of Edwin Drood. 844 00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:15.420 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 845 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:16.500 See you soon. 846 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:17.519 Ta-ta. 847 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.320 That was slightly entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley 848 00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:26.340 and James Selwood. 849 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:29.159 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane 850 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:30.300 Orberg. 851 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:33.360 This episode, outside is trying to get in, was recorded on the 852 00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.840 11th of June 2018 and released on the 9th of September. 853 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.639 Here at FDE Home Insurance, customers are warm, but turning on all 854 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.699 the gas taps in the house to exorcise the whispering voices in the 855 00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:51.300 basement may result in an abrupt and cataclysmic cancellation of 856 00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:51.719 your policy. 857 00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:55.860 Okay. anything else? 858 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:57.239 There's nothing else. 859 00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.039 Do you hear me? 860 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:00.360 Do you hear me? 861 00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:02.639 longer on this than we did on the other one. 862 00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:04.800 Cut out, God, it's a lot to cut. 863 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:06.960 All right. 864 00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:09.000 I'm going to try the outro. 865 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.179 Did I mention the wicker placement? 866 00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:16.679 The wicker-faced aliens of the Sisterhood of the Wicker Place 867 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:16.980 match. 868 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.920 I actually thought that they looked like the ends of cigarette. 869 00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:22.619 They were cigarette, they say. 870 00:46:22.619 --> 00:46:23.460 Before we recorded. 871 00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:29.159 They were Ret Condas, the scholars of the University of Rocco, Rago 872 00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.079 56 Rocco in the comic book. 873 00:46:31.139 --> 00:46:32.699 God's sake. 874 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.820 Oh, there you go. from a straightforward planet, either they're 875 00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:36.239 from a university. 876 00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:41.099 And Davies had intended to bring them back in Journey's end in the 877 00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:41.820 shadow. 878 00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:43.079 Oh, he was going to bring everything. 879 00:46:43.139 --> 00:46:43.500 Yeah. 880 00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:46.139 Have you ever seen have you got the writer's tale? 881 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:47.699 Yeah. 882 00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:51.539 Because Davies is a cartoonist, like, and he's a really skilled 883 00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:54.840 cartoonist, and he draws this picture of the shadow proclamation 884 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.780 with, like, literally every alien that they've ever had on the 885 00:46:57.780 --> 00:46:58.980 show in the background. 886 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:00.239 It's just so great. 887 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:01.559 He's so good. 888 00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:05.940 We'll talk more about him next week, James, because we're going to 889 00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:09.300 have we're going to have pics of the week, but we're only going to 890 00:47:09.300 --> 00:47:10.679 do them in episode twos. 891 00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:14.940 We can't do it at the end of the season because that would mean we 892 00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.260 would just never end up doing them. 893 00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:21.239 You know, you know, they've now reconned the psychic paper back to 894 00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:22.139 the 2nd doctor. 895 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:25.500 Can we? 896 00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:26.159 Let's record the thing. 897 00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:27.119 Let's record the thing. 898 00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:28.980 Yeah, because it's getting on for 12. 899 00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:29.880 Yeah. 900 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.079 We want to go out to lunch. 901 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.420 Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week. 902 00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:37.920 We've been away for a while. 903 00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:38.880 No, let me try that again. 904 00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:39.119 Sorry. 905 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:42.780 Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week. 906 00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.000 We've been away for. 907 00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:48.059 We've been away for a while, so we really should back. 908 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.039 We've been away for a while. 909 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:51.059 Yeah, back. 910 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:52.079 Where's Brendan? 911 00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:53.579 Why isn't Brenda doing this? 912 00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:56.820 His contract came to an end. 913 00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:57.539 That's it. 914 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.420 He had to marry Andred and stay behind on Gala. 915 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.099 He's been evicted from life. 916 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.960 God, I love that story. 917 00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:07.860 Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week.