WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:31:14 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.479 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.500 the only Doctor Who podcast with absolutely no idea who Harriet 3 00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:44.100 Jones is. 4 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:45.240 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:45.299 --> 00:00:46.439 I'm James. 6 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:47.460 And I'm Max. 7 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.179 Well, we're finally back on Earth after a 12 hour jaunt through 8 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:53.939 time and space, and everything seems to be completely normal. 9 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.500 The city is gridlocked. 10 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.799 Big Ben doesn't work anymore, and the government is run by fat 11 00:00:58.799 --> 00:00:59.939 flatulent aliens. 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.479 Is it real life or is it just aliens of London? 13 00:01:26.099 --> 00:01:31.319 So, uh, Max, can you talk to us a little bit about when you first 14 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:32.340 saw this episode? 15 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:33.000 I can. 16 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:39.180 This episode was the first episode I saw, and I, as a kid, as I 17 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:42.719 saw, I was 7 years old, and I, I'll just, I'll drop that in 18 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:42.900 there. 19 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:46.319 And then, no, but I was 7 years old and I, um, I saw the trailer 20 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:51.420 on ABC, and it's had the spaceship hitting Big Ben moment. 21 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.420 That was about the most exciting thing a seven-year-old could 22 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:56.640 possibly say, or at least it was like a dream. 23 00:01:56.700 --> 00:01:57.420 It was fantastic. 24 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:01.140 And I think my parents were worried that it was going to be too 25 00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:02.280 scary for me. 26 00:02:02.340 --> 00:02:07.019 So they taped episodes and then I sort of didn't, and I just was, I 27 00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:09.539 think I was only interested in seeing the carnage of Big Ben at 28 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:09.900 that point. 29 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:11.340 I wasn't really interested in anything else. 30 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:16.319 So then I finally sat down and watched the episode and it hooked 31 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:19.500 me from the moment from that scene where there roses on the 32 00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:23.879 rooftop and she's talking about like the things I've seen and no 33 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:26.639 one's seen them and then the lorry sound and the spaceship flies 34 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:27.000 over. 35 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:30.000 And I think my dad was saying that he saw in that moment, he 36 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.699 thought, well, he's not interested in cricket or football, but at 37 00:02:32.699 --> 00:02:33.900 least he's got Doctor Who. 38 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:34.800 And that was it. 39 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:36.479 And that I was hook clone and sinker. 40 00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:37.020 That was me. 41 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:37.319 Yeah. 42 00:02:37.379 --> 00:02:39.659 And so that was the 1st doctor who you'd ever see. 43 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:41.400 Yeah, yeah, pretty well. 44 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:45.180 I think I'd seen the classic reruns before the new series came 45 00:02:45.180 --> 00:02:46.199 back Yeah. 46 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:46.500 Yeah. 47 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.520 Because I have a vague memory of Sylvester McCoy crouching in a 48 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:51.780 quarry, but I don't know. 49 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.719 That's sort of that's a vague. 50 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:55.740 Maybe it was could be anything. 51 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:56.400 Could be anything. 52 00:02:56.460 --> 00:02:59.819 But no, but that was in earnest, that was the 1st time. 53 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:01.680 Time of the rhyming? 54 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:04.379 Well, it could have been, but it could have been any of those, Alan 55 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:05.580 Waring ones on location. 56 00:03:05.699 --> 00:03:06.479 Yeah. 57 00:03:06.539 --> 00:03:08.400 Yeah, but effectively, yes. 58 00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:12.060 And then it became like sort of playground, like, in my 59 00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:15.000 imagination, every kid was watching Doctor Who and pretending to 60 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.759 be Doctor Who at lunchtime from that point on, probably wasn't the 61 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.360 case, but from that point on, all of our year one class or 62 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.879 whatever, reenacting Doctor Who all week. 63 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:27.599 That's such a great thing to hear because I think there is very 64 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:32.699 definitely a sort of conscious effort from RTD to make Doctor Who 65 00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:35.099 something that gets reenacted in the playground. 66 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:36.900 Yeah, when I when I watched it again. 67 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.060 The sort of zip in the forehead moment. 68 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:41.520 I realise it's just perfectly distilled kind of playground 69 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:42.780 fodder. 70 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.379 I remember hearing him interview where he talks about how he loved 71 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:48.780 the idea of like slightly chubbier children being able to just 72 00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:52.020 sort of menacingly, like start to unzip their foreheads and 73 00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:53.819 everyone would scream and run away. 74 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:58.199 I think RTD probably does have a little bit of an issue with 75 00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:58.680 ways. 76 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:03.120 And not always in a good way, but it might be something that we 77 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:03.659 get back to. 78 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.539 But I think, you know, in the ones that we've done already this 79 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:10.319 year, I think things like the bin, I don't know if we said that in 80 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:12.539 the rose episode, but I like to imagine kids. 81 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:17.579 Oh, you know, dodging bins as they walk down the street just so 82 00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:21.420 that they don't suffer Mickey's fate, um, and giving the aliens 83 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:23.759 catchphrases like pity the Gelf and stuff like that. 84 00:04:23.819 --> 00:04:26.220 I mean, it was just perfect for the playground. 85 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:30.600 Or even just the way the doctor's given a normal key. 86 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.220 Yeah. 87 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:37.860 As, you know, in this early 70s, they had that gorgeous spade 88 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:42.540 design, that per wind baker had, which they brought back in the TV 89 00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:43.079 movie. 90 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:48.420 But giving, giving the doctor, you know, a household key. 91 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.439 Yeah, for the TARDIS means that any key can be a TARDIS key. 92 00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:56.519 Any door can be an opening to adventure. 93 00:04:56.579 --> 00:04:57.120 Yeah. 94 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.120 You know, like he's he's very evidently going, this is a family 95 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:00.660 show. 96 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.740 I want kids to, you know, have the same experience I had growing 97 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:07.980 up watching this where, yeah, the whole world was this adventure. 98 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:09.480 Yeah, I think that's it. 99 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:11.819 I think I've said before, he kind of enchants the world. 100 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:16.199 You know, like he imbues it with things, so that a kid looking out 101 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.879 the window as they drive along in London and seeing Big Ben thinks 102 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.959 about the ship crashing into it or even sort of seeing a London 103 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:29.339 bus or driving down Westminster Bridge or the London eye, you know 104 00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:30.420 like all of those things. 105 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.180 Oh, or a yeti on the loop. 106 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:34.319 Precise. 107 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:37.860 Tooting Beck's not a real place, James. 108 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:39.240 Yes, it is. 109 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:41.699 So we're talking about family. 110 00:05:41.819 --> 00:05:45.720 And of course, the episode opens, the cold open, doesn't do what a 111 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.839 Doctor Who story normally does, which is show you the monsters or 112 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:49.740 show you the threat. 113 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:53.399 The role of a cold open is to tell you what the episode's about. 114 00:05:53.459 --> 00:05:57.180 And the cold open is entirely about Rose's family. 115 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:58.620 So the doctor brings Rose back. 116 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.740 She thinks she's been gone for 12 hours, but the doctors made a 117 00:06:01.740 --> 00:06:02.040 mistake. 118 00:06:02.100 --> 00:06:05.759 And it's a kind of hilarious mistake that we're used to the doctor 119 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.480 making, but we suddenly see that it has this massive impact on 120 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:10.680 Rose's family. 121 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:12.779 She actually has a real life. 122 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:13.500 Yeah. 123 00:06:13.500 --> 00:06:15.180 She's a real person. 124 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:18.360 And it's even with the, I think the doctor's going up to that 125 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:19.139 missing poster. 126 00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:23.100 And even like Marigold's music is kind of just like really sort of 127 00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:26.279 pleasantly and then it just sort of goes sour and there's like 128 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:30.180 this really like huge cheesy stick that just starts to, and as 129 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:32.579 these sort of face drops and horror. fantastic. 130 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.759 I think it's such a good as the music tells you how to feel. 131 00:06:35.819 --> 00:06:37.319 It tells you exactly how to feel. 132 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:43.680 I like Jackie's reaction because she has been such a sort of 133 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.519 hilarious, oblivious comedy character and just the look on her 134 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.060 face, like she's seen a ghost and she drops the thing. and it is 135 00:06:51.060 --> 00:06:54.899 all intercart with the discovery of the missing poster. and I 136 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:57.540 think Rose looks across a table and there's heaps of missing 137 00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:00.959 posters and it's clear that Jackie's entire year has been about 138 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:02.639 Rose being missing. 139 00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:08.939 And I think I was, I was reading sad for sentry on this, and she 140 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:13.560 talks about the idea that there is concurrently with Doctor Who, a 141 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:18.060 kind of EastEnders style soap going on, and that the 2 of them are 142 00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:22.500 crashing into each other, and every 3 weeks we come back to Rose's 143 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:27.480 family in season one, and there are clearly episodes of the soap 144 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:31.920 going on while we've been enjoying the end of the world and the 145 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:32.759 unquiet dead. 146 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:37.680 Like, yeah, you get Mickey and Jackie's life is just is happening 147 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:38.579 while we're away. 148 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.420 Like, even in Mickey's terrible apartment, you know, like that 149 00:07:42.420 --> 00:07:44.939 sort of like, like, there's the stop sign on the wall. 150 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.779 But there's all his UFO books and you get the sense he's just been 151 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:51.839 like, it's just built into the world of the show that, oh, you 152 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:53.459 know sort of what he's been. 153 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:57.000 And I love the detail that like Jackie just assumed that he'd 154 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:57.720 murdered him. 155 00:07:57.779 --> 00:07:59.879 It's just sort of simmering away underneath it. 156 00:07:59.939 --> 00:08:03.600 But it's sort of, it's, it's a really, it's kind of terrifyingly 157 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:06.360 dark thing that's just sort of thrown by the wayside. 158 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:06.720 Yeah. 159 00:08:06.779 --> 00:08:11.459 Yeah, there's it's played for laughs, in fact, when Rose asks him 160 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:16.139 later if he's been with anyone in the last 12 months and he says 161 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:19.019 no, but mostly because everyone thinks I murdered you. 162 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.160 And, you know, the idea of a black man being called in by the 163 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:24.899 police for the murder of a white woman. 164 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:29.639 Like, the show is kind of too light to deal with that really 165 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:30.779 properly. 166 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:35.159 But I do think there is a pretty good bit in the middle where the 167 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:38.700 doctor and Rose step out of the TARDIS with Mickey and there's a 168 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:42.360 helicopter and they're going to be escorted to number 10 and the 169 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:45.240 moment that Mickey sees these soldiers, he knows that he has to 170 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.600 run, you know, like he doesn't have the kind of charmed life that 171 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:49.620 the doctor and Rose have. 172 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:50.100 Exactly. 173 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.080 Like, I mean, and that's really subtle. 174 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:56.700 And like, on 1st viewing, when you're much younger, you don't 175 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:58.200 realise the coding there. 176 00:08:58.259 --> 00:08:58.860 Yeah. 177 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:02.100 I mean, I was 24 when I 1st got this. 178 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.259 And I didn't even get that coding. 179 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:08.159 Um, I like what you say about it being an EastEnder style. 180 00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:11.940 Soap going on in the background, I much prefer this to the last 181 00:09:11.940 --> 00:09:14.340 time Doctor Who didn't, he send his cell soap. 182 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:18.059 We'll put that in the show. 183 00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:21.960 What it reminds me of, and I think I've said this before, is that 184 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:26.820 it's like the Pertwee ear is sort of small semi-regular cast, and 185 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:30.240 particularly after kind of season eight, they do become sort of 186 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.419 very semi-regular, but they're always there and we go back to them 187 00:09:33.419 --> 00:09:36.179 and it's nice to see them again and they're there for season 188 00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:37.559 finales and stuff like that. 189 00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:41.039 But they're sort of a ridiculous TV army. 190 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:45.899 And having them instead being a ridiculous TV sort of soap opera 191 00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:49.919 family, particularly at a time where Doctor Who doesn't know if 192 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:54.059 it's going to be popular, it doesn't know whether it's got an 193 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:55.200 audience. 194 00:09:55.259 --> 00:10:00.419 And I think pitching it at just normal people and having normal TV 195 00:10:00.419 --> 00:10:02.039 depictions of normal people. 196 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:04.980 I mean, I don't think Jackie's a normal person, but she's a TV 197 00:10:04.980 --> 00:10:05.519 mum. 198 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:09.899 And the soap opera is so engrained in British culture by this 199 00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:10.080 point. 200 00:10:10.139 --> 00:10:12.659 Yeah, yeah. much more so than for us, I think. 201 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:15.360 Yeah, and much more so than it. 202 00:10:15.419 --> 00:10:20.100 I mean, soaps were very popular back in the 60s and 70s as well 203 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:23.460 but not in the same way they are in modern Britain now. 204 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:28.500 I mean, I think both EastEnders and Coronation Street are some of 205 00:10:28.500 --> 00:10:33.120 the highest rated programs on television, like soap is still, most 206 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.379 British drama. 207 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:39.299 And, you know, soap and science fiction have a lot in common, I 208 00:10:39.299 --> 00:10:41.700 think, and there's a scene in queer as folk. 209 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:45.960 And I think, again, I probably have to credit Dr. Sand for this 210 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:46.259 again. 211 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:51.720 But there's a scene in Quira's folk where Vince goes to a straight 212 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:56.759 pub with people from work and he meets a girl and they bond over 213 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:02.580 Coronation Street and talk about how Doctor Who was put up against 214 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:06.480 Corey in the 80s and ended up suffering in the ratings. 215 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:09.240 And most people would have assumed that the audiences for the 2 216 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.759 shows were quite different, but of course they weren't. 217 00:11:11.820 --> 00:11:17.340 And soap creates a involved world where there are a lot of things 218 00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:19.919 to know about a lot of different characters. 219 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:24.360 And science fiction does exactly that, particularly in the 80s as 220 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.279 well, Doctor Who's completely doing that. 221 00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:29.759 So I think they're a natural fit. 222 00:11:29.820 --> 00:11:33.600 But I do think it was met with a bit of hostility from Doctor Who 223 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:34.080 fans. 224 00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:39.360 Yeah, and I'd be interested to see with season 11 coming up 225 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.919 whether that's the same approach that is used because I think as 226 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.120 an exercise in grounding the show and making it much more open to 227 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:49.919 families and to anyone. 228 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:50.639 Yeah. 229 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.779 Like, it's proved an incredibly worthwhile tactic, like, since the 230 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:56.100 70s, you know, for doctors. 231 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.559 So I'm interested to see whether that's an approach that Chris 232 00:11:58.559 --> 00:11:59.639 Chibnell takes as well. 233 00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:02.940 Because in a way, it is sort of, I think, coming from the same 234 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:05.700 place and that they want this show to appeal to the most amount of 235 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:06.179 people possible. 236 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:06.840 Yeah. 237 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:07.200 Yeah. 238 00:12:07.259 --> 00:12:07.559 Yeah. 239 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:10.980 I think just having a regular cast of 2 is problematic even just 240 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:12.539 from a TV production point of view. 241 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:16.559 It looks, I mean, and this is probably certainly fan rumour. 242 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:21.720 But it looks like series 11 is probably hitting down more of a 243 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:25.379 like, you know, police procedural crime drama. 244 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:29.220 You know, probably season 11 will all have been screened by the 245 00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:31.080 time I managed to get this. 246 00:12:31.139 --> 00:12:33.480 Well, it's supposed to be out in October. 247 00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:34.440 Yeah, yeah. 248 00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:39.000 Yes, it came out in October. 249 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:49.679 So we take a little bit of time away from the Tyler family to just 250 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.399 go upstairs and have a breather while mum's downstairs having a 251 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:54.299 little bit of a panic. 252 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.419 And so the doctor and Rose get to have this conversation where 253 00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:00.480 they talk about, you know, kind of the story so far. 254 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.559 That's a great scene, but there are bits of it that aren't land, in 255 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:11.159 my opinion, especially coming from a gay writer. chucking in, you 256 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.059 know, and look, we all grew up with this, you know, with the word 257 00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:17.159 gay being an insult in the playground. 258 00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:20.580 And the fact that Russell chucks in, oh, you're so gay. 259 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.139 And what is it? 260 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:27.120 It's in response to the doctor saying that it hurt when Jackie hit 261 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:27.720 him. 262 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.799 And yeah, look, I mean, yeah, yes. 263 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:35.220 But we should be expecting better from a gay writer. 264 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.460 If you were writing it now, I don't think you would do it, you 265 00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:39.299 know, obviously. 266 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.240 But I think, yeah, it's interesting. 267 00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:43.080 It is an interesting choice. 268 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:47.940 Like he said in defence of that scene at the time, you know, I 269 00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:51.240 wanted to put that in there because I am a gay writer and I wanted 270 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:55.379 to make people stop and think and go, oh, if a gay writer is 271 00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:55.799 writing this. 272 00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:56.759 Is it okay? 273 00:13:56.820 --> 00:13:57.600 Is it okay? 274 00:13:57.659 --> 00:13:59.580 It's not the 1st use of the word game. 275 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:01.139 Because it gets used in rose. 276 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:02.700 Remember, you know, that won't work. 277 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:04.139 He's gay and she's an alien. 278 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:06.960 Yeah, but that's a different sort of thing. 279 00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:09.179 I mean, that's not being used as an insult. 280 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.840 And the sort of general ask with Slaven talks about his previous 281 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.200 host, having a wife, a mistress, and a young farmer. 282 00:14:16.259 --> 00:14:18.419 Again, again, that's normalising. 283 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:19.080 Yeah, yeah. 284 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.919 That's normalising being gay or at least... sort of representing 285 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:23.399 it itself. 286 00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:24.779 Yeah, representing in some way. 287 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:30.299 Look, yes, you can read it that way. is that Russell coming up 288 00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:35.879 with a reason for using something which he possibly should have 289 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:36.419 questioned. 290 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.899 Or, I mean, I don't have a problem with that scene if the doctor 291 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:40.860 calls her out on it. 292 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:41.940 Or somebody... 293 00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.399 I just think it's too it's complex and distracting. 294 00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:50.279 And that's a scene where the focus is on that incredible rose 295 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:54.480 tireless smugness about knowing something that no one in the whole 296 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:57.720 world knows and then suddenly getting the rug pulled out from 297 00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:58.200 under. 298 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:01.320 Yeah, and then I think the lorry sound as the spaceship comes over 299 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.600 is just an incredible masterstroke. 300 00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:05.460 Because you hear it before you see it. 301 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:05.879 Yeah. 302 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:08.700 And so you're not quite sure what's happening and then just this 303 00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:10.019 massive spaceship. 304 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:14.279 I just think as a sort of trailer moment and as a scene, I think 305 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:14.879 it's fantastic. 306 00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:23.279 So Doctor Who's had alien invasions before, but I think that this 307 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:27.899 is vastly different from anyone that we've ever seen in that it's 308 00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:30.779 the most public alien invasion ever. 309 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.200 Well, we're talking about the Saigon gambit with the Loch Ness 310 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:35.639 monster or the yetis in the underground. 311 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:39.000 Yeah, I guess they have been public in the past, haven't they? 312 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:40.379 We've evacuated London twice. 313 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.080 Or the invasion of the dinosaur. 314 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:46.860 I think what makes it feel particularly new obviously is looking 315 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.259 at it through the prism of the media. 316 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.679 The scene where the flicking through the channels and the doctors 317 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.679 just in this sort of, it's just forced to be in this in, like 318 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.799 everyone's just bickering about, you know, like, I think Jackie's 319 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.159 talking about like an old relationship or or like something like 320 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:05.340 he characterises it as some talking about where you can get cheap 321 00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:06.240 top-up cards. 322 00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:07.019 Yeah, yeah. 323 00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:11.039 And I love, but then like seeing the spaceship in Blue Peter. 324 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:14.639 And then seeing, obviously, like the US media, like as the 325 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.759 episodes go on, as it becomes sort of more, a more sort of global 326 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:19.679 UN getting drawn into it. 327 00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:22.799 And it becomes such a staple of the Russell T. Davis era. 328 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:27.120 Yeah, even the US newsreader has a name and has a character and 329 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:28.139 Trinity Wells. 330 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:28.980 Wells. 331 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.740 And I remember in the writer's tale, he talks about wanting to 332 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:35.279 bring her in a sort of fantastic cameo appearance in the stolen 333 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:39.120 earth where she has to be your badass and kind of, I think, but I 334 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.000 just, I love that there's this extended world and it's pretty 335 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.940 quickly drawn and it's sort of quite surface, but I like having 336 00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:46.679 actual BBC anchors. 337 00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:48.179 Yeah, like Andrew Marr. 338 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.279 Andrew Mar talking about and he's fantastic. 339 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:53.159 Yeah, like he's just such such a natural kind of... 340 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.620 And he's just in it a lot and he's giving this little sarcastic 341 00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:57.059 snipes throughout the entire episode. 342 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:01.679 He just takes it up slightly one level sort of bigger than 343 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:02.399 reality. 344 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:04.380 Yeah, yeah. yeah exactly. 345 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.519 And it's, and I love, and I just think seeing an alien invasion 346 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:13.980 through contemporary 24 hour news is something that feels 347 00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:15.299 incredibly fresh for the program. 348 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.420 And if you're thinking about likes of the capolia, they kind of 349 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:24.359 jettison it because it became such a staple and a tribe of the of 350 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:28.140 the Russell T. Davis era, but I think it's it feels fantastically 351 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:29.940 fresh in these 2 episodes, I think. 352 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.740 They basically jettison it from, yeah, from, from, it's the 11th 353 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:35.700 hour onwards practice. 354 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:37.680 It's in the power of it's in the power of 3 a little bit. 355 00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:40.799 But that feels more like a bit of a callback when they bring Brian 356 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:42.480 Cox on, all that kind of stuff. 357 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:46.680 Yeah, or that sort of episode 11 sort of montage of various people 358 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.079 that happens in the Russell T. Davies thing as well. 359 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:51.539 It is something that he did in the 2nd coming. 360 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.259 Like he partly tells that story through media as well. 361 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:59.519 And in fact, this is very similar, I think, in some ways to the 362 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.000 2nd coming, which is absolutely definitely worthwhile watching. 363 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:03.900 Yeah, it's fantastic. 364 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.140 Absolutely, definitely him going, I'm trying to make Doctor Who 365 00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:08.099 but I can't do it. 366 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:09.059 Not yet. 367 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.400 So how can I tell a story? 368 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:12.720 Kind of a bit like Doctor Who. 369 00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:15.299 Ah, I know, I'll bring back Jesus. 370 00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:20.819 But he actually uses it sort of quite deftly to push the story 371 00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:21.599 along as well. 372 00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:26.160 I mean, part of the story is that the aliens have done something 373 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.640 huge and public and dramatic to create an impact. 374 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:34.380 But then he actually moves the story from the doctor in Rose, where 375 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.940 it stays for quite a lot of that 1st episode into the hospital and 376 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:42.359 then we move away from them and have scenes without them for the 377 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:42.839 1st time. 378 00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:49.200 Of course we get the 1st introduction of Tashiko Sato. 379 00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:53.880 Yeah, so she's credited as Dr. Sato, and we discover, I think, in 380 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:57.599 Torchwood series two, that... 381 00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.220 Is that episode 11 or series two, I think? 382 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.460 But Owen Owen was hung over. 383 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:04.980 He was supposed to do it because he's actually a doctor. 384 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.859 And so she was just there pretending to be a doctor. 385 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.160 And that's how she sort of comes to be just a really rough day. 386 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:15.119 I mean, there's no sign that she's tortured and obviously they 387 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.700 didn't think of that until later and it was just a sort of cute 388 00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:18.539 recon. 389 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.400 Those are quite good scenes, I think. 390 00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:24.420 Yeah, I love the whole, again, I think maybe because it's quite 391 00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:28.079 fresh in my head from when I saw it and I was devastated by the 392 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.400 shooting of the big man. 393 00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:33.180 Like, I, that was, I mean, I'm pretty easy tears, but, but that I 394 00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:37.380 was, I was sort of very, um, and I think, I, I don't know. 395 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.819 It seems like one of Russell T. Davis's where you can be quite 396 00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:45.059 brutal in just killing off this poor little... 397 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.059 It's sort of quite a devastating scene, and it seems, and it's 398 00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:51.960 quite, it's a bit of a tonal shift, certainly, from the episode 399 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.539 that it's been set up before that point. 400 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:58.619 It's very clever because it goes from being kind of horror with 401 00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:01.980 the thing banging inside the sort of mortuary drawer. 402 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.559 And then it goes to comedy when the pig sort of sticks its head 403 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:05.220 around the corner. 404 00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:06.240 It's clearly peak. 405 00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:09.240 It makes a pig noise and then it runs off in this sort of comedy 406 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.579 way and then suddenly it shot dead. 407 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.539 And I think it's Eccleston who sells that with the, it was scared 408 00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:16.079 line. 409 00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:18.839 He says it twice and he really feels it. 410 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:22.440 Like, and I think you're right, identifying Russell as brutal. 411 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.279 I mean, he does have this light tea time tone, but there's a lot 412 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.920 of kind of horrible nastiness. 413 00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:32.160 Even I'm skipping ahead slightly, but even when all the experts 414 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:34.740 are killed in the cliffhanger, and there's just a room full of 415 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:37.200 dead scientists, like it feels... 416 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:40.980 I mean, I mean, Doctor Who does that a fair bit, but I think maybe 417 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:44.700 even coming from the Moffatt era where I think you just see less 418 00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:48.599 of that sort of willingness to just kill an entire room of people 419 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:51.599 and then just sort of like flippantly kind of move on. 420 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.259 But I mean, it is he's he's pretty good at making it sort of wash 421 00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.599 over your head while you're watching, but it's sort of taking a 422 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:01.380 step back and going, there's some incredible sort of, I mean 423 00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:05.519 Doctor Who is incredible at definitely navigating massive tonal 424 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:10.319 shifts from comedy to what otherwise would be horrific. 425 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:10.619 Yeah. 426 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.759 No, I think there's a real kind of dark cynicism behind Russell's 427 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:16.200 really sunny exterior. 428 00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:18.359 You know, that sort of public persona. 429 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:22.140 He has all the way through the publicity of his time, all of the 430 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:24.059 DVD commentaries and stuff. 431 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:26.339 Everything's marvellous and everything's just lovely. 432 00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:29.279 It's just so jovial, but like under the surface. 433 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:31.200 Yeah, it'd be really horrible. 434 00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:35.160 I think that episode, I think it's episode 6 of cucumber is the 435 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.259 most upsetting piece of television I've ever seen. 436 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:38.460 Yeah, don't. 437 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.319 Can we talk about the Slovene? 438 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.779 Maybe the most controversial part of the episode? 439 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.900 The Slakeen, the Slakeen, as Jackie calls them. 440 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.599 Maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves because it is in the next 441 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.019 episode. 442 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.440 Do you read the most controversial part of the episode because of 443 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:06.000 the farting or because of or because of the terrible cliffhanger 444 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.500 that goes on for 25 minutes? 445 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.640 Well, we'll talk about the Cliffhanger, but let's talk about the 446 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:16.559 Sabine because it is kind of, this one is in fam memory as the one 447 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:17.880 with the farting aliens. 448 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:21.539 And I know that there's a lot of people who are really angry about 449 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:21.960 that. 450 00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:26.640 And I think that Russell is definitely kind of rubbing it in our 451 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.339 faces, like it's very deliberate, I think. 452 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:35.160 I mean, yes, you say that, but it's like there are 4 episodes with 453 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:36.720 gassy aliens this season. 454 00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:38.700 We've had the we've had the gals. 455 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:39.480 Yes. 456 00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:42.299 Yeah, and then these two, and then Boomtown. 457 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:43.079 Is there another one? 458 00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:44.339 No, I think that's it. 459 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:49.200 But I mean, Bob Holmes has that entire planet living off Kroll's 460 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:51.900 farts joke in the power of Kroll? 461 00:22:52.019 --> 00:22:53.759 Or the terceron? 462 00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:55.980 by more of it. 463 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:58.740 But I think this is the 1st time it's been on screen in Doctor 464 00:22:58.740 --> 00:22:59.099 Who. 465 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.700 And I think we've seen from, say, the last Jedi backlash that 466 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:07.380 people who are proprietorial over their science fiction franchises 467 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:10.920 want them to be super, super serious. 468 00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:13.259 And it's not just the farting. 469 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:21.180 It is that kind of childish glee. that the Slavene, you know 470 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:21.779 exhibit. 471 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.539 I think I loved them when I was a kid. 472 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.740 And then when I was 11 or 12, I sort of thought, you know, oh, it 473 00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:29.819 thought who should be serious. 474 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.160 Yeah, and that's ridiculous and stupid. 475 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:33.059 They're very teenager. 476 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:34.079 Very teenage thing. 477 00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:38.460 And I think then I've come back around to I think they're perfect 478 00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:42.779 for the story that they've been put in because I think it's the 479 00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:46.259 idea that you would put what is effectively sort of a bit of an 480 00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:50.039 urban kind of thriller, you know, returning to earth and telling 481 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.759 this, like the longer story so far in the season about this sort 482 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:55.319 of strange alien arrival. 483 00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:59.220 The fact that you would put then silly green monsters that when 484 00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:01.980 they're putting in, you know, on their human bodies, I think it's 485 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:05.640 fantastic and it's just, it's a way of not appearing to take the 486 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:06.720 whole thing too seriously. 487 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:07.559 And I think, yeah. 488 00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:11.579 I think too, the conception of the aliens where they actually sort 489 00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:15.299 of tear people's skin off and sort of live in the skin is actually 490 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:16.440 really kind of horrible. 491 00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:19.380 And when you get Harriet Jones cowering in the cupboard watching 492 00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:22.140 it happen and sort of reacting like it's a real, horrible, scary 493 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:22.920 thing. 494 00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:26.279 So selling the fact that this is horrific what's happening. 495 00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:31.440 Yeah, but then having Annette and Joseph being just sort of truly 496 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:32.220 hilarious. 497 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:33.180 Fantastic. 498 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:34.799 The juxtaposition. 499 00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:35.220 Yeah. 500 00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:36.839 I had a neighbour. 501 00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:40.680 Our next door neighbour was the spitting image of Annette. 502 00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:46.619 And so the combination of that and having her like evil, yeah, it's 503 00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:48.180 that sort of evil glee that she has. 504 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:51.000 And she just steals the entire... 505 00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:52.500 So you can totally understand why. 506 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.440 I mean, I don't, was it reflective of a performance why they came 507 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:56.460 back to her character? 508 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:57.180 I think so. 509 00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.940 Like, I think they bring her back for Boomtown. 510 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.819 I think something falls through or something like it's a bit of a 511 00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:03.539 late thing. 512 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.599 I'm not entirely sure. of the production history, but I think they 513 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.339 bring her back on the strength of that performance. 514 00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:11.759 And then, of course, they cast her in wizards versus aliens as 515 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.740 well as a result of it too. 516 00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:18.839 Friend of the podcast, Peter Griffiths says that Annette tells a 517 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.380 story about being kind of stared at by a small child on the tube 518 00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:26.039 one time and her sort of turning around and going to zip her 519 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:28.259 forehead open at the child. 520 00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:31.319 And like I can just totally imagine that. 521 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:32.700 She's really, really wonderful. 522 00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:36.059 But I think all of them are really sort of terrific and funny. 523 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:41.759 And um, look, I'm not sure that all of the farts land quite as 524 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:42.720 well as they might. 525 00:25:42.779 --> 00:25:46.559 And I think we can talk more about that next week when we talk 526 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:48.420 about Keith Folks' direction. 527 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.099 But I have absolutely no objection to it and I really like. 528 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:57.180 I mean, you know, Russell makes the doctor say, would you mind not 529 00:25:57.180 --> 00:26:00.900 farting while I'm saving the world, you know, and puts it, I think 530 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:03.599 in the next time trailer for the previous episode. 531 00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:05.400 Like, he totally leans into it. 532 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:11.339 So it is a very definite attempt, I think, to alienate the show 533 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:16.680 from sort of 80 style science fiction fandom and to say this is 534 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.180 for kids and families as well. 535 00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:19.740 This is going to be funny. 536 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:23.039 And it's not like this story is without any serious intent. 537 00:26:23.099 --> 00:26:26.819 It's got serious things to say, but it has a lightness and a 538 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:30.000 comedy and a refusal to take itself too seriously, I think. 539 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:38.819 So, who do we think was the prime minister in the cupboard? 540 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.299 Well, I mean, was definitely actually supposed to be Tony Blair? 541 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:46.019 I actually like the, there's a little bit of banter when they're 542 00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:48.480 in the car on the way to number 10. 543 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:53.279 Because on the posters, it says that Rose disappears on the 6th of 544 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.700 March 205, 2005. 545 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.920 And so... 546 00:26:58.920 --> 00:26:59.519 I don't know. 547 00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.980 I'm quite old. 548 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:09.299 And so this story is set nearly 12 months into the future. by time 549 00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:10.019 of broadcast. 550 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.680 And since 2003, Brown and Blair had been clearly having conflict 551 00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:20.640 over whether Blair should step down and whether Brown would take 552 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:20.940 over. 553 00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:25.259 So, Rose, Rose doesn't know who the prime minister is. 554 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.940 Well, there's that, but if it had been brown, they could have 555 00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:31.559 actually just replaced the prime minister. 556 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:32.400 With a saline. 557 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.440 Oh, absolutely. 558 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:41.819 No, they actually did employ a Tony Blair lookalike to play the 559 00:27:41.819 --> 00:27:44.160 dead private on the floor. 560 00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:49.259 But when he turned out not to look very alike to Tony Blair, they 561 00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:50.880 decided to not really show his face. 562 00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.160 I like the fact that he just falls out of a cupboard. 563 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.380 And it sort of, it's completely humiliating. 564 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.839 They've just shoved him in a cupboard. 565 00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:01.319 I think it will become very clear next episode why the hostility 566 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:02.519 to Tony Blair. 567 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.599 It gives them a little bit of like a room to say, no, it's 568 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:09.779 actually a fictional Prime Minister, but on the staircase in 569 00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:12.180 number 10 where they have the photos of all the Prime Ministers 570 00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:13.920 the very last one there is John Major. 571 00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:15.059 There's no photo after that. 572 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:19.380 So let's say it's Tony Blair and we'll talk about why next week. 573 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:26.099 Well, there's also that line from Harriet Jones where she says, I'm 574 00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:27.059 hardly one of the babes. 575 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:27.960 Yeah. 576 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:35.220 And after Labour one, the landslide election 1987, there were, I 577 00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:39.059 think, 100, 101 new feet. 578 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:43.259 Well, not necessarily new, but elected female labour MPs in 579 00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:43.740 parliament. 580 00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:47.339 It's one of the highest representations of women in British 581 00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:48.299 Parliament ever. 582 00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.119 Still to this day, I believe. 583 00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:57.359 And in Parliament that year, there were 120 women elected. 584 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:01.920 So, like there was in the media, in typical sort of misogynist 585 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.400 fashion at the time, they were dubbed Blair's babes. 586 00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:06.000 Right. 587 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:12.420 Because, you know, like, let's trivialise the fact that, you know 588 00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:14.640 instead of Instagram, wow, this is amazing. 589 00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:18.599 We've got the highest representation of women ever in British 590 00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:19.200 Parliament. 591 00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.000 Let's just trivialise it. 592 00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:23.160 Trivialise them as babes, basically. 593 00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:25.680 Okay, so that is Blair. 594 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.220 Yeah, and that was deliberate foregrounding the fact that it was 595 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:32.220 supposed to be Blair, but they cut everything else out when it 596 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:36.420 turned out the guy that they'd hired as a lookalike. wasn't that 597 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:40.680 good or like, which is sort of failing at the 1st post if you're 598 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:42.480 if you're billing yourself as a blender. 599 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:43.680 Yeah, yeah, you had one job. 600 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:49.500 You've lost your shot to be the murdered Tony Blair and Doctor 601 00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:49.799 Who. 602 00:29:57.059 --> 00:30:00.420 So what do you guys think about the doctor and Rose in this 603 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:00.660 story? 604 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:05.460 Like, I was reading Sandifer's thing as well. jumped on that 605 00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:06.240 bandwagon. 606 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:09.000 And it was interesting how it's saying the walk, because the 1st 3 607 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.000 episodes are clearly story of the week and sort of dealing with 608 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.259 this is what Doctor Who is. 609 00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.140 But this is sort of the 1st occasion where the doctor in Rose sort 610 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:20.519 of particularly Rose's character starts to impose itself on the 611 00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:23.039 whole show rather than rather than a sort of textbook. 612 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:24.000 This is Doctor Who. 613 00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:24.900 Yeah, yeah. 614 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:28.319 I think that the overall arc thing, because there is a big story 615 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:31.079 about what Rose is doing in her relationship with her family, which 616 00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:35.039 really becomes clear, I think, in the very final scene of next 617 00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:35.640 episode. 618 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:40.559 But I think that there is something about the relationship between 619 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.519 them that is already kind of slightly problematic and that is how 620 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:46.259 much they enjoy what's going on around them. 621 00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:49.559 And it's really sweet seeing them both in the car and both being 622 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:51.660 super excited about going to number 10. 623 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:57.000 But I think that the show as early as this is starting to kind of 624 00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.440 look askance at that. 625 00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:06.420 And it sort of reaches its apotheosis in series 2 with Rose and 626 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:12.539 the 10th doctor and the fall at the end of series 2 and her ending 627 00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:16.019 up in other universe because of their hubris, basically. 628 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:21.839 Um, as a character arc, I actually quite like that. 629 00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:25.980 The fact that the show is going, you know, there are costs to the 630 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:28.079 way you approach the world. 631 00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:33.299 Um, you know, you, you, you're enjoying the fact that you could 632 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:37.440 die any minute and the thrill and the adrenaline of that and, but 633 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:38.220 there are costs. 634 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.279 There's a price you have to pay if you keep approaching the world 635 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:41.759 in that way. 636 00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:45.480 And they return to that in season 9 with Clara's ark quite 637 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.299 deliberately and probably a bit more sort of explicitly. 638 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:52.500 But it's interesting, I think, because both of those characters 639 00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:55.740 have the longest kind of, I suppose Amy does as well. 640 00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:00.119 But they have the longer sort of one-on-one relationship with the 641 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.319 doctor that we see in this. 642 00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:04.440 And I think it's treated as an almost inevitable if you stay with 643 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.000 the doctor too long, this... 644 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.660 Their lives are forever altered by interacting with him. 645 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:14.460 And unless you sort of get out like Martha does or tragic 646 00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:18.539 circumstances before you like Donna, it's almost like a corruption 647 00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:19.859 or something. 648 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.480 It's just this sort of altering of these adventures and this 649 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.980 danger will definitely change. 650 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.359 You could backwards construct that onto Sarah Jane Smith as well. 651 00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:34.380 I mean, not that it's a deliberate thing in the classic series, but 652 00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:36.660 well, school reunion does that as well. 653 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.259 But when you were talking about this in the classic series of 654 00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:43.200 flight through entirety way, you were talking about how after her 655 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.380 1st couple of stories, she's not really a real person anymore. 656 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:52.380 And she becomes corrupted by travelling with the doctor. 657 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:57.900 I think it'll come up later on next series where Jackie suggests 658 00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:01.079 that at some point Rose won't even be human anymore as she keeps 659 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:02.099 travelling with the doctor. 660 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.460 She'll be on some moon somewhere and she'll have forgotten who 661 00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:06.660 everyone is. 662 00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:09.180 And all of that, I think, is yet to come. 663 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.259 But I think here, that feeling manifests itself most of all, in 664 00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:18.059 the kind of cavalier way that the doctor wrecks, Jackie, and 665 00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:19.200 Mickey's life. 666 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:23.579 And, you know, he runs into the room at the end of the cold open 667 00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:26.759 and just goes, I'm sorry, you know, you've been gone 12 months 668 00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:31.200 sorry and then gives that smile, that sort of embarrassed smile. 669 00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:35.579 And then we just cut back to this sort of, you know, weeping 670 00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:37.980 Jackie, like all of these terrible things have happened. 671 00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:39.480 Unfortunately, he does pay for it. 672 00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:40.740 I mean she does smack him in the face. 673 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:43.319 It would have been perfect if that smack had come. 674 00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.720 At the end of the cold open. 675 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:47.700 Or at the beginning. 676 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:50.039 At the beginning of the credits. 677 00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:51.059 So it would have been perfect. 678 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.460 And that stuff is great as well. 679 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.700 They give Chris things to do that the doctor's never done before 680 00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:01.980 which is, you know, push a toddler off his lap while he's trying 681 00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:03.299 to watch television. 682 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.920 Um, even when he sort of has to stay, and they, because the police 683 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:11.400 officer comes around at the end of the coal open, and he sort of 684 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.219 has to sort of sheepishly, sheepishly stand there, sort of, you 685 00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:16.079 know, being questioned by... 686 00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:17.280 Is this a sexual relationship? 687 00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:18.300 Well, shouldn't have that. 688 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.260 That's never a question that gets asked of the classic series at 689 00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:25.619 all, even when the doctor and Lala are running hand in hand 690 00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:26.460 through Paris. 691 00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:31.800 But, but, but, I mean, companion was always quite an innocent 692 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.199 thing. you know, what was that lied about? 693 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.860 Isn't a companion, uh, something that dowager aunts had? 694 00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.300 What's that from? 695 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:40.260 I don't remember. 696 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:46.139 Companion has only really got that meaning between the classic 697 00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:47.280 series and the new series. 698 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:50.639 Companion has gained this sexual innuendo. 699 00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:54.119 Which is interesting, particularly because the news series has 700 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.320 dropped the word companion from the entire format of the series 701 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.539 when they had their big sort of worldwide launch. 702 00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:01.860 They don't call them companions. 703 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:02.820 They're the doctor's friends. 704 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.320 Yeah, every reference to companion seems to sort of be kind of 705 00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.219 pushed away. 706 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.760 It's that weird Fanish construct where you get to argue about 707 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.800 whether Katerina is a companion or not. 708 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:16.380 And it's sort of nonsense. like what is that? 709 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:21.300 I was reading feminist critique of Doctor Who recently. 710 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:27.599 Which was, you know, interesting, but they counted Caterino's 711 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:31.800 companion, but not Sarah Kingdom, which I was like, is Brett Vine 712 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.280 a companion? 713 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.400 How could you count someone who's there for like an episode 714 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:38.940 really? 715 00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:42.239 to someone who's throughout an entire story. 716 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:45.719 Well, I mean, anyway, the whole thing is a sort of silly idea, and 717 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.260 the word companion is a sort of stupid word, and kind of the 718 00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:51.119 doctor gets slapped down for using it. 719 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:55.440 But he is also kind of sexualised in a way that he hasn't really 720 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.460 been much before. 721 00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.639 I mean, we had Pat Trouton flirting with various female guest 722 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:00.480 stars, but... 723 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.820 From the moment Jackie meets him, he's sexualised. 724 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:03.900 Yeah, yeah. 725 00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:07.559 Even when he's walking away from the power estate to his TARTA 726 00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.019 someone calls out from the balconies and come back to the party 727 00:36:10.019 --> 00:36:12.480 handsome, too, which I really like. 728 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.119 And he sort of just, and you can tell that he's heard it and 729 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.260 registered it. 730 00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:30.000 We're kind of nearing the end of our discussion and it's not a 731 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.019 real Doctor Who series unless there are some cliffhangers. 732 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.840 So this is our 1st cliffhanger of the new series, and it's one of 733 00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:38.340 3 cliffhangers. 734 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.280 We're not getting a cliffhanger every 25 minutes anymore. 735 00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:44.400 How do we think this one lands? 736 00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.380 It's definitely the worst one. 737 00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:50.699 Probably the worst cliffhanger of the entire new series. 738 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:53.519 Possibly the entire series altogether. 739 00:36:53.579 --> 00:36:54.480 Why do you say? 740 00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:57.000 It's almost as if they'd forgotten. 741 00:36:57.059 --> 00:37:00.659 I mean, well, you know, it's the new people making this show. 742 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.039 So they haven't forgotten, but it's almost as if the show doesn't 743 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:06.360 know how to do it, Cliffharing. 744 00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:08.400 Okay, they work it out by the next time. 745 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:12.179 But it's so bloody prolonged. 746 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.719 It's like, how many peril monkeys can you have? 747 00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:19.679 Can 3 different cliffhangers intercutting backwards and forwards 748 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:20.219 constantly? 749 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:25.139 It could have worked if there were 2 3 is just overkill and it's 750 00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:25.800 just so slow. 751 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:27.480 It's like, oh, they're undoing their zips. 752 00:37:27.539 --> 00:37:28.500 They're undoing their zips. 753 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:29.579 They aren't doing their zips. 754 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:30.780 They aren't doing their zip. 755 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:33.780 Like, when is somebody going to die, please? 756 00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:38.940 And then straight after the cliffhanger, we get the next time 757 00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:39.539 trailer. 758 00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:41.519 And it's just... 759 00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:45.239 I mean, you can tell they're they're, you know, they, it's a new 760 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.699 show that like, it's the 1st recording block, isn't it? 761 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:48.539 Yeah, yeah. 762 00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:52.019 And I think that scene with the doctor and the experts doesn't 763 00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:54.179 really land, I think, at all. 764 00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:57.719 It feels orchestrated, but I need to get to the cliffhanger rather 765 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.659 than a sense of, I mean, I know that there's the sense of, oh 766 00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:04.139 we're getting experts and it is sort of part of the Sadine's plan 767 00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:06.719 to get rid of get rid of these people in this room. 768 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:11.820 So I get that, but I just feel like it sort of comes, I don't know 769 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:13.019 it comes out of the blue a little bit. 770 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.380 It's almost like RTD went, well, they're all here. 771 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:17.340 How am I going to kill them? 772 00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:19.559 Oh, security passing. 773 00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:24.900 I think what's odd about it too is Chris's demeanour in that scene 774 00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:25.739 is very strange. 775 00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:30.480 Yeah, I think when he's talked about not landing the comedy right 776 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.320 I always think of that scene where it's a bit, I think, well, maybe 777 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:35.699 because it's the 1st recording block. 778 00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:38.880 Yeah, he handles the comedy with sort of quite heavily. 779 00:38:38.940 --> 00:38:40.679 I think he's talked about in the part. 780 00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:44.699 Yeah, he's not natural to him. when he works it out, when he 781 00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:46.019 actually gets the rhythm of it. 782 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:47.280 He's quite charming. 783 00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:48.000 Yeah, yeah. 784 00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:51.599 I also think those experts are kind of scenery as well. 785 00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:58.920 Yeah, like none of them get aligned, you know, yeah. who are so 786 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:02.760 integral to certain parts of the classic series and are mythical 787 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.400 and just thrown away. 788 00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:10.019 And that's that's a very deliberate thing, Russell's part as well 789 00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:11.880 going... 790 00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:12.960 This is what you think, Doctor Who is. 791 00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:18.599 It's interesting what you say about Chris, you know, looking 792 00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:19.679 uncomfortable at the scene. 793 00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:22.320 I think I like to think that's the scene at which he realised he 794 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:22.920 wanted to leave. 795 00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:28.440 Because that, I mean, essentially the 1st recording block is where 796 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:30.719 he kind of went, oh, this thing is a mess. 797 00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:32.760 I don't like what's going on. 798 00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:35.099 I don't like how they're treating their actors. 799 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:40.320 Like, he read that as a toxic work environment, apparently, from 800 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.880 what he said since, when, you know, it was more a case of they 801 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:45.539 were clueless. 802 00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:46.559 They didn't know what they were doing. 803 00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:50.400 They were overrunning, they were over budget apparently. 804 00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:54.360 And, yeah, it's accident more than design. 805 00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:55.380 Yeah, I think. 806 00:39:55.619 --> 00:40:00.539 But I kind of think if they've got like 3 cliffhangers, they 807 00:40:00.539 --> 00:40:02.039 really need to make them each land. 808 00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:04.860 And so there's a very clear desire, I think, to make this 809 00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:05.940 enormous. 810 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:11.579 And so having the same cliffhanger at sort of 3 plot strands and 811 00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:14.340 building it up, I think you're right, it takes too long. 812 00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:18.960 But I do think it strikes upon something that is genius, which is 813 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.659 having Jackie in peril. love that. 814 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:25.320 I love it's the same cow that she does with the autons, like 815 00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:26.039 notes. 816 00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:26.880 It's just fantastic. 817 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.079 It's like, and it's the same. 818 00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:31.500 I think she's, of all the three, I think, the one in Jackie's 819 00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.380 apartment is the most, there's something fantastic about seeing 820 00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:37.079 the Slavin in just in a normal apartment. 821 00:40:37.139 --> 00:40:37.739 Yeah. 822 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.679 I mean, it is fun seeing them in Downing Street, but having just a 823 00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:44.760 like a huge, like a really like monster monster in a way that the 824 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.340 new series hasn't done before, like, you know, like it's men in 825 00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:51.119 massive suits, you know, leering over, and it's kind of just, I 826 00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.960 like that part of it. 827 00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:52.739 And I think you're right. 828 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:56.340 Like, I think it takes like work to get those to converge at the 829 00:40:56.340 --> 00:40:59.400 right time with 3 separate, very similar, you know. 830 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:01.739 Well, it didn't really work. 831 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:04.019 No, no, but the effort. 832 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:08.340 I sort of, I can see where the intention in creating this sort of 833 00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:10.139 all of the regulars in peril. 834 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.019 If they're all in peril, how can they possibly get out of it? 835 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.840 Yeah, but they could have done that in ways which, you know, would 836 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:19.739 be used later in the series, you know, during split screen or just 837 00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:21.719 much faster intercutting. 838 00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:23.760 I don't think they've quite developed that yet. 839 00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:26.639 And the pace is a problem and it takes up quite a bit of the 840 00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:26.880 episode. 841 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:30.000 Well, it's funny because I was thinking, like, then I was thinking 842 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.900 about Russell's Cliffhanger in Bad Wolf, which is totally 843 00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:34.260 different. 844 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:38.159 I mean, that's clearly a different approach to it that just works 845 00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:39.539 I think, incomparably well. 846 00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.119 Like, it's just, it's funny because I was trying to think of 847 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.760 incidences where they sort of return to that style of cliffhanger 848 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:48.179 where it cuts between everyone in peril, but I kind of was 849 00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:52.079 struggling to, unless they're all, I mean, it sort of happened, the 850 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:53.340 side man one, but they're all together. 851 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:54.539 It's of a big set piece. 852 00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:57.179 But I think they don't really go near it for a long time. 853 00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:59.760 Yeah, they come out, oh, well, that didn't work. 854 00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:25.619 Well, do this, ma'am. 855 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:28.619 There's a nice policeman hacking down our front door, and James is 856 00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:31.739 rummaging around in the pantry for a jar of pickled gherkins, so 857 00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:33.960 it looks like that's all we have time for this week. 858 00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:36.960 Do come back next week for World War III. 859 00:42:37.019 --> 00:42:41.099 In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com 860 00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:44.940 flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE 861 00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:45.960 podcast on Twitter. 862 00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:48.300 Max, where can people find you online? 863 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:51.780 You can find me at max underscore Jailbar on Twitter. 864 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:55.800 It's pretty barren there, but if you wish. 865 00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:59.639 Excellent. and that'll be in the show notes Meanwhile, over on 866 00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:02.880 Bond Finger, you can find a very sober and well-informed series of 867 00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.639 commentaries on nearly all of the James Bond films. 868 00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:09.539 That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts 869 00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:12.059 and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. 870 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.179 Until next time, may your country's head of government not be 871 00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:19.139 replaced by a giant farting alien baby, unless, of course, that's 872 00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:19.920 happened already. 873 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.960 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 874 00:43:22.019 --> 00:43:22.619 Good night. 875 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:23.159 Good night. 876 00:43:29.219 --> 00:43:32.519 That was Flight for Entirety starring Nathan Bodley, Max Shel 877 00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:36.119 Barton, James Selwood, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings 878 00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.619 performance by Jane Orberg. 879 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.219 This episode, Men in Massive Suits, was recorded on the 8th of 880 00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:44.400 July 2018, and released on the 16th of September. 881 00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:50.340 If you want to know more about the Slovene's plans to take over 882 00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:53.519 the Earth, why not check out next week's episode of Flight through 883 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.420 Entirety, or consult the Wikipedia article on neoliberalism? 884 00:44:00.539 --> 00:44:04.380 Seeing a London bar or driving down Westminster Bridge or the 885 00:44:04.380 --> 00:44:06.480 London eye, you know, like all of those things. 886 00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:09.539 Oh, or a yeti on the loop. 887 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:10.559 Precise. 888 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:14.159 Tooting back's not a real play, spread. 889 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:18.059 Let me try that. 890 00:44:18.179 --> 00:44:21.539 No, well, well, no, no, I'll go and ring him. can come and replace 891 00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:21.900 me now. 892 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:25.380 I know I have a 2nd class substitute. 893 00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:27.420 Freudians, lady. 894 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:29.039 There's your excellent. 895 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.380 Let me try that again. 896 00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:33.000 Tooting.