WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:05:39 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.979 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which triggers its info spike by Whistling 3 Guitars Mood 2, and we're doing it now. 2 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:48.060 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:49.799 I'm Todd, and I'm Peter. 4 00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:50.159 Hello. 5 00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:53.939 Well, judging by the architecture, I'd say we're about the year 200,000. 6 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:58.079 Adam's still with us and someone really should think about turning the heating down. 7 00:00:58.140 --> 00:01:00.000 It's time for the long game. 8 00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:22.500 So, Peter, when this episode first came out, I had no idea what a long game was, so perhaps you can explain it to us. 9 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:29.879 A long game with someone who's keeping their eye on the future and I have no idea what the answer to that question is. 10 00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:30.840 How do you define a long game? 11 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:39.420 Aren't they playing something that you don't actually see what's going on at this point in time, but they've got the eye on the prize, which might be 6 months a year down the track? 12 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.799 and they're building things in the background and making little moves. 13 00:01:43.859 --> 00:01:49.379 And their moves are not really obvious to anyone else. but they know what they're doing and they're seeding the ground. 14 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:59.519 Yeah, and I think it's the production team, really, that's playing the long game here in that this is episode 7 and it's setting up a whole heap of stuff for episode 12. 15 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:10.800 And in fact, the story kind of works on its own, but it is sort of a little bit low stakes, but in retrospect, it becomes vastly more important, I think. 16 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:12.960 I have to say that I would agree. 17 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:14.219 Like when I 1st watched this. 18 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:20.099 This was probably my least favourite episode of this series, I don't think that anymore. 19 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:32.819 And I think sandwiched between Dalek and Father's Day, which quite, which have emotional stakes, quite emotional stakes, this doesn't seem to have those stakes in in the same way, it's in any way, shape or form. 20 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:55.139 Obviously, in hindsight, you can see all the sets being reused from the finale, but also linking back to sort of platform one, even in episode 2, sort of, you know, the space station, or the space platform outside the Earth's atmosphere, as far as Christopher Eccleston appears to get away from Earth during the entire run of his series, even though other things are mentioned. 21 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.219 But it just sort of links everything from the beginning to the end. 22 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:05.939 And as you said, and as the name suggests, um, yeah, there's things going on here that we don't see until the finale. 23 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:13.740 I think there are rumours that this was a story that Russell had written a long time ago and perhaps even submitted. 24 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:15.300 Did I dream that? 25 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:16.620 Maybe I dreamt that. 26 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:18.659 There's something along those lines. 27 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:19.080 Yeah. 28 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:20.879 But it is very trad. 29 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.699 I mean, it's super old-fashioned. 30 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:28.740 It doesn't look very expensive and it is completely studio bound. 31 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.860 It's a very sort of traditional Doctor Who story, I think. 32 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:36.780 And it doesn't really participate in the ark as far as we can see up front. 33 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:42.180 It looks cheap Yeah, in fact, I remember being disappointed the 1st time I saw it. 34 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:51.060 I went over to a friend of the podcast, Matthew Farrow's place to watch it because, you know, Doctor Who was back and we had the chance to watch it together. 35 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:56.159 And it was that thing where every new Doctor Who episode was absolutely crucial. 36 00:03:56.219 --> 00:04:00.900 You know, if there was a single terrible one, who knows the show might be cancelled again. 37 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.360 It was so important that it was good. 38 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:09.360 And I remember kind of feeling like I was forcing myself to say it was good. 39 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:15.780 In retrospect, I think I've had the same journey as you in that I think it's much, much better than I thought it was the 1st time round. 40 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:18.000 But that's what's cool about this episode as well. 41 00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:20.519 I mean, you mentioned kind of, you know, every episode was an event. 42 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:23.100 I think this is the 1st episode of New Doctor Who. 43 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:24.120 That's not an event. 44 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:28.319 It's not, you know, Rose being introduced or going to the future for the 1st time. 45 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:31.920 It's not the Daleks coming back or a statement 2 parter. 46 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:33.540 It's just an ordinary episode. 47 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:34.800 It's kind of daring to be average. 48 00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:35.459 Yeah. 49 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:41.879 Yeah, I think we said last week that Dalek was kind of the start of a new kind of era for the show. 50 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:50.100 It had done all of its initial things and shown us what sort of things it would do, the past, the future, you know, adventures on earth and things. 51 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:51.660 And then we have a break. 52 00:04:51.720 --> 00:05:00.000 It's the 1st story that doesn't really, you know, immediately reference previous events that have gone on and it's our 1st story, but it's so huge. 53 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:07.620 It's so important, Dalek, that this is kind of like, yeah, the 1st kind of regular Doctor Who episode. it's great for that. 54 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:24.779 So let's talk a little bit about the beginning, because I think you've spotted something, Todd, which is that this is a redo of the end of the world, only with Rose as the doctor and Adam as the companion. 55 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:37.860 And so they both come out of the TARDIS, the doctor and Rose, and the doctor quickly briefs her about where we are, and then Adam comes out, Rose pretends that she knew all along where we were. 56 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:43.019 We're sometime in the future, but because Rose isn't quite so good at being the doctor as the doctor is. 57 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:48.959 It's only, you know, 200,000 years in the future rather than 5000000000 years in the future. 58 00:05:49.019 --> 00:05:52.079 It's a much crappier space station. 59 00:05:52.139 --> 00:05:59.339 We get the shot of them looking out the window, you know, onto, onto earth, just like in the end of the world. 60 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:01.259 And then of course, Adam faints. 61 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.120 That is comedy goal. 62 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.060 He is such a good fainter, just that whole collapse. 63 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:12.540 I just burst out laughing Every time I watch that and as the doctor says, he's your boyfriend. 64 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:14.759 Not anymore. just love it. 65 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:19.980 The thing that's so perfect is that both of them fail completely to react at all to him fainting. 66 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:28.259 Like they don't, you know, there's no eyebrow rays or anything, they just deadpam their comedy lines immediately afterwards without realacting at all. 67 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.899 I think they've been watching Tams and Grieg in rehearsal. 68 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:32.339 Oh, yeah, let's do it like that. 69 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:41.519 And of course, even after that, this is a thing that Russell does, and he'll do it again in gridlock, where suddenly a whole heap of people appear. 70 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:55.079 So the doctor and Rose and Adam get to explore the space, and it looks deserted, and then suddenly all of those booths open and all of these people sort of come in and there's a whole heap of activity and we had it in the end of the world. 71 00:06:55.139 --> 00:06:57.839 He'll do it again in gridlock and he does it here. 72 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.800 And it's, I think it's a, you know, a deliberate callback. 73 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:04.920 It's almost as if that would be the end of episode one. 74 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:06.600 You know, it's like Ark in space. 75 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:09.120 We get episode one where we wander around and kind of look at things. 76 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:11.639 Convinced into the teaser, yeah. 77 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:13.620 And then we get all of these people. 78 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.839 And it looks it looks cheap. 79 00:07:15.899 --> 00:07:16.620 They look cheap. 80 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:18.660 And those sets look so small. 81 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:27.300 Like, and they just reuse that area, you know, and redress it and even the other white space where they lie down and get headspites. 82 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:29.040 Like that's redressed a couple of times. 83 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:31.860 The director on this is Brian Grant. 84 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.259 Who the hell is Brian Grant people? 85 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:35.639 I've never heard of him? 86 00:07:35.699 --> 00:07:37.620 He's never directed anything again? 87 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:38.399 It's a legend. 88 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:39.240 Is he? 89 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:40.319 Absolutely. 90 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:42.540 Do you not know his pedigree? 91 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:44.519 I think he's in a terrible director. 92 00:07:44.579 --> 00:07:48.899 Oh, I think he's a marvellous director, but also he started off in music videos. 93 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:56.459 He directed things like, um, I want to dance with somebody for Whitney Houston and private dancer for Tina Turner. pop music. 94 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:57.839 Oh my. 95 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:01.379 He's got a proper pedigree and he's done loads of TV before he came to this. 96 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:06.360 I think the reason he only did one episode is he's a bit above Doctor Who in his pay grade. 97 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:07.500 Oh really? 98 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:11.639 Because I don't, I actually don't, I don't really like the direction in this quite a lot. 99 00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:16.199 I think it's, I just think that it's distant and I don't know. 100 00:08:16.259 --> 00:08:16.980 There's something about it. 101 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.259 I really at times just think it's weak. 102 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.100 It's hard to pin down what his style is, I think. 103 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.819 It is very kind of season one Doctor Who direction. 104 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:27.120 I think. 105 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:29.459 He's not clever with his camera work. 106 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:32.700 Like he's not sort of, you know, swoops and camera moves and everything. 107 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:37.980 But what he does to is he makes the episode look a lot better than otherwise. 108 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:39.539 What it could have looked like the Space Museum. 109 00:08:39.659 --> 00:08:41.279 Instead, it looks like leisure hive. 110 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:44.879 And the reason is that he foregrounds a lot of objects and lights. 111 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:50.700 And so when he's shooting things, you'll notice on a lot of shots it's subliminal, you don't even notice it half the time. 112 00:08:50.759 --> 00:09:00.720 He'll have the action in the background, he'll have shimmering lights in the foreground or an object which is out of focus in the foreground, which lends a lot of depth of field to the story. 113 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:04.080 And I think without that, it would look like you were shooting in a corner of the studio. 114 00:09:04.139 --> 00:09:13.500 I do think that that scene with everyone sort of pouring in and buying Cronkburgers and things looks a lot busier and a lot more populated than it probably was. 115 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:19.620 It is, and the few wide shots that you get, where you actually get to place where different things are on the set. 116 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:26.279 So you'll get Rose and Adam sitting down and then you'll get the doctor with Cathica at the cash machine in the background. 117 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:28.139 You realise they're only about 2 feet from each other. 118 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:39.000 But, you know, like the Android invasion and East Hagborn, if you've ever been there, it's one corner and it's made to look like an entire village and Brian Grant does the same thing. 119 00:09:39.059 --> 00:09:43.440 He turns this set, which is really very, very small, into quite a vast space. 120 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.019 What Brian Grant is not is showy. 121 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.000 He doesn't impress you. 122 00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:52.200 He doesn't set out to impress you, but he just does a really good job under the radar. 123 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.059 Right, listeners. 124 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:54.899 I've just learned something. 125 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.120 I have to go back and watch this episode again. 126 00:09:57.179 --> 00:09:59.580 See, I am open to new ideas. 127 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:01.919 Maybe his direction isn't as bad as I thought. 128 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:04.139 It is bad and I want to dance with somebody. 129 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:09.600 I can tell you that because I've watched that video clip recently and it is shockingly awful. 130 00:10:09.779 --> 00:10:17.399 Especially Whitney Houston's little CSO Ed in the top of some stupid poll thing to the one side. 131 00:10:17.460 --> 00:10:18.840 You know what I'm talking about, Peter, don't you? 132 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:19.500 I do indeed. 133 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:20.039 Awful. 134 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:21.659 But also, Toadie did some Kim Wild. 135 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:22.799 I know you're a fan of Kim. 136 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:23.460 Yes, yes, yes. 137 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:25.139 I'm not exactly sure. 138 00:10:25.620 --> 00:10:26.759 Well, there you go. 139 00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:29.820 Brian Branch has gone up in my opinion by 10 points. 140 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:31.139 But also, he did a lot of drama. 141 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.220 He did things like bugs, and I think he might have done some episodes of Highlander, actually. 142 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:45.539 And he did clocking off, which I'm going to guess is where Russell knew his work from because clocking off was written by Paul Abbott, who I think Russell Either Nose or his friends with. 143 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.059 He's another very, very good writer. 144 00:10:48.120 --> 00:11:04.919 So he did shameless, for instance, and was slated to do episode 11 this year. through episode 11 and I'm not entirely sure, but I think they might have been holding it open for him if he got the chance to do it because he's a very busy writer. 145 00:11:04.980 --> 00:11:06.360 And in the end he wasn't. 146 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:08.279 So Russell ended up stepping into the void. 147 00:11:11.820 --> 00:11:23.220 It does have one link to the ongoing dialogue of things that it mentions the Bad Wolf Channel and the face of Beau is pregnant, right? 148 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:24.120 Yeah, yeah. 149 00:11:24.179 --> 00:11:25.620 And so we have the face of Beau. 150 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:33.840 And I don't know whether this is deliberate or not, but obviously the face of Beau, therefore, in the end of the world is over 5000000000 years old. 151 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:38.700 And I don't know whether that was kind of a thing that he didn't think of or didn't care about. 152 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:40.500 Yeah, well, that's right. 153 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.440 And I think they're definitely trying to create a world. 154 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:48.840 It's a difficult job in Doctor Who to do that because we're in a different place every week. 155 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:55.019 But one of the things that season one does is create a whole universe for this story to take place in. 156 00:11:55.080 --> 00:12:02.100 Yeah, and I think the story does a really good job of Russell's world building because what Russell does. 157 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:05.820 His vision of the future is not Zog from the planet Zog. 158 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:10.440 It's people and then nature essentially unchanged throughout the millennia. 159 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:19.919 And so it's ordinary people reacting to whatever unreal situation they've put in because it's 200,000 years in the future or 5000000 years in the future or whatever, 5 billion. 160 00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:23.340 And um, the long game sets a lot of that up. 161 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:31.919 The long game is Russell's vision of the future and he adheres to that in kind of new earth and gridlock and all of those other future different stories. 162 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:38.399 Well, even utopia, which is, you know, the very, very end of the future, the human race remains unchanged. 163 00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:45.419 It's not like Star Trek where we all kind of, you know, get rid of money and greed and we're all sort of fabulous, enlightened people. 164 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:46.919 We're just people. 165 00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:51.720 And the other thing that Russell does with the future is he plays it for comedy as well. 166 00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:55.740 And sort of fish out of water comedy and there's some great stuff here. 167 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.580 The doctor compares time travel to going to Paris. 168 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:05.700 Uh, you know, tourism and next week, he'll compare sort of 1987 to the Isle of Wight. 169 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.340 You know, it's just tourism. 170 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:13.620 And those scenes where that guy is selling them Cronk burgers. 171 00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:16.019 What did you just say? 172 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:16.919 No cheese. 173 00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:19.860 Kronk burgers. 174 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:20.399 What a name. 175 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:21.899 That would be 2 credits 20, love. 176 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.899 I love how he says sweetheart as well. 177 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.019 That's a particularly Russell thing, I think, calling people sweetheart. 178 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.659 Everything is that his thing is that he wants people at the end of the line. 179 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:31.980 Doesn't want anyone at the start of line. 180 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:33.120 Everyone has to go to the end of the line. 181 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:34.919 Yeah, he's really good. 182 00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:46.259 And Billy's delighted discovery. that her slush puppy is beef flavoured, which is just so deeply revolting sounding, but she's absolutely delighted by it. 183 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:52.379 You know, there's a real kind of fun to the whole sort of time travel thing which I think is really, really terrific. 184 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:57.000 Rose always gets into those kind of future flavours when she's in the impossible planet. 185 00:13:57.059 --> 00:14:00.179 She likes protein one with just a kicker 3 or something. 186 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:16.559 It reminds me of midnight where Sky and the doctor are wondering whether they're having the chicken or the beef and he tastes it and decides that it's both, which is, again, just kind of deeply revolting, I think, the taduck in a future. 187 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:20.159 Yeah, that's right, or some gross hybrid of some kind. 188 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.580 That's the hybrid, the real hybrid. 189 00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:35.940 So, we get to meet a few characters here in Satellite 5. 190 00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:39.899 We've got Suki, Cattrell, whatever the rest of her name. 191 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:41.159 Mick McGram Cantrell. 192 00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:41.639 Okay. 193 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:43.500 And we've got Kafka. 194 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:44.759 Yeah, Kafka. 195 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:45.480 Kathika. 196 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:46.200 Kafka. 197 00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:46.919 Kafka. 198 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:50.759 You know when you get one of those inserted. 199 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:57.480 I really like how that's actually just a common future name because she has to specify that it's with a C, as if it was Catherine. 200 00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:59.039 It's kind of she's space Catherine. 201 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:01.679 She's also space actor. 202 00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:06.179 She was one of the things I really disliked about this episode when I 1st watched it. 203 00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:11.639 I just thought that she just was so blank and emotionless. in her acting and very wooden. 204 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.100 Christine Adams plays her. 205 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:21.299 But I've reevaluated that because I've watched her in, um, she's the wife on Black Lightning, the CW Superheroes Show. 206 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:25.679 Okay. which they're just filming season 2 of as we record this. 207 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:27.600 And I really like her in that. 208 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:30.120 And she plays all the emotional stuff really well. 209 00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:39.600 So when I came back to watch this, her performances the one that I was most intrigued at to see whether or not I felt that she was doing more than the 1st time around, and I think she is doing a lot more. 210 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:47.820 Perhaps my eye was drawn to Suki because like she's the one that gets promoted and is pretending to be somebody she's not and driving that part of the plot. 211 00:15:47.879 --> 00:16:00.720 But I really do like Christine's performance in this as this character that wants to be promoted, you know, and is desperate for that promotion, but ultimately has to face up to the reality of things and actually save the day. 212 00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:11.580 I think she does a great job too, because she's a journalist, of course, you know, despite all that sort of space brainhead thing, the job that she has is journalism. 213 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:21.240 And she hasn't even thought to look into the 1st thing that Rose notices when she gets off the TARDIS, which is that it's hot in here. 214 00:16:21.299 --> 00:16:21.960 Why? 215 00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:24.779 And it's never occurred to her to investigate it. 216 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:35.399 And, um, I think that there's more to this story than their 1st appears because I think it is just very definitely a story about Fox, Fox News. 217 00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:37.440 And I think that that's where Bad Wolf comes from. 218 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:39.720 Like the name Bad Wolf comes from this story. 219 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:44.399 And, you know, 90 years later, the Bad Wolf are still in charge. 220 00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:56.159 And what we have is a world where a consortium of banks controls all of humanity, frightens them, makes them xenophobic. 221 00:16:56.220 --> 00:17:05.579 You notice there's a sort of budget saving measure of not having any aliens because we used all our aliens in the end of the world, but he lampshades it. 222 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:19.740 The reason there are no aliens is because satellite 5 is producing a kind of journalism that causes fear and xenophobia and seduces people into not asking why things are the way they are. 223 00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:30.299 So for instance, you know, Max, the Jagrafess is named after Max Hastings, who was, you know, longtime editor-in-chief of the Daily Telegraph. 224 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:38.279 And he is the boss and he sends heat downwards, you know, like he makes it a hot environment to work in. 225 00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.039 And he's controlling humanity. 226 00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:43.920 And at this point, there's no idea that they're the Dalek's doing it. 227 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.220 When we're asked who it is, It's a consortium of banks. 228 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:59.279 You know, it's the rich who are allowing this kind of journalism to keep humanity under control to stop them from asking why things are the way they are, why things are going wrong. 229 00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:00.720 Spread and circuses. 230 00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:01.140 Yeah. 231 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.880 But it's really interesting, like, like all that you've just said back in 2005. 232 00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:13.319 And then what's happening now with Trump, you know, the quote here, create a climate of fear, easy to keep borders closed. 233 00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:14.880 It's happening now. 234 00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.779 Well, you watch this episode now and it feels really on the nose, but 10 years ago. 235 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:20.160 Yeah, yeah. 236 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:20.880 It wasn't. 237 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:34.740 I mean, things weren't quite what they were, and the whole idea that you have in America, a whole sort of subset of the population who listened to, you know, news beaming direct out of satellite 5 and believe everything that they hear. 238 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:43.319 And you've got a president who encourages that and constantly dismisses other news sources as being fake. 239 00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:47.519 This is much, much more timely now. 240 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:50.279 And you really believe that Trump's Twitter feed comes direct from satellite 5. 241 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:56.400 It's just that sort of inchoate roaring coming from the ceiling. 242 00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:59.339 Don't look up. 243 00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:11.519 What do you think of the actual effects of the monster, like that giant... 244 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:12.299 What do we call it? 245 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:23.759 Well, I think the fun thing about it is, you know the story about the drashings being called Dishrags by Bob Holmes, because he just expected they would be massively poorly realised. 246 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:29.279 I think that Russell calls the Jaggerfest something that makes a rotten foe. 247 00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:33.599 You know, like the Jagrafess of the holy hydrojassic maxa roden foe. 248 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:39.900 I think it's very, very deliberately him saying it's going to be a bit crap. 249 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:43.440 And the meal is just bringing their A game to it. 250 00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:48.180 You know, it's a labour of love and I think it's better than we had any right to expect. 251 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.579 So I think it looks really great. 252 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:54.900 But, you know, it's cheap to get the ceiling and replace it. 253 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.859 You know how in in the TV movie. 254 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:03.960 You've got the ceiling of the TARDIS is just replaced by, you know, visual effects and stuff. 255 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:05.819 And you could do that because there's nothing in the way. 256 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:07.619 You don't have to mat around anything. 257 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:08.880 It's simpler. 258 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:17.339 So having it on the ceiling, I think, is a budget saving measure, and I think that they didn't expect it to turn out as well as it did. 259 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:21.960 I think Max is a pretty good effect, but what on does it slightly is the perspective. 260 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:29.160 So you get those low angle shots with Billy and the doctor in front and Max above them and the perspective doesn't look quite right. 261 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.140 It seems like it's higher up. 262 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:40.380 When Simon Pegg is looking up and talking to it, the camera seems further away from him than the effect kind of does. 263 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:48.420 And you've got a lot of people walking into this room where there's a sort of big blobhead thing on the ceiling and no one looks up or even seems to notice. 264 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:50.759 Well, I didn't notice when we walked in today. 265 00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:51.420 I mean what's that? 266 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.799 Yeah, I really need to do something about that. 267 00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:58.740 What do you think of Simon Pegg? 268 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.319 Um, truthfully, he's not my favourite part of the episode. 269 00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:07.680 I think in an amazing guest cast for what's not an event episode, he's probably the least of them. 270 00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:09.420 And that's fine. 271 00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:10.500 I have that opinion, Peter. 272 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:13.740 Why are you laughing, Nathan? 273 00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:15.539 Am I just gonna dismiss Peter's opinion? 274 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.859 Like, I actually quite like him. 275 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.160 But initially, no, I didn't really know who he was. 276 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:25.079 Like, I think he'd done, had he done the Star Trek movies or the Mission Impossible stuff by this stage? 277 00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:25.500 No. 278 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:25.740 No. 279 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:28.019 No, he Don Shaun of the Dead, which was quite a big hit. 280 00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:29.160 And spaced. 281 00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:30.059 Spaced, yeah. 282 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:31.559 Okay, which neither of which I'd seen. 283 00:21:31.619 --> 00:21:33.599 So I knew the name, but I didn't really know him. 284 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:37.079 So, but I quite liked his sort of like, you know, I'm the editor. 285 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:38.460 What is he? 286 00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:39.480 He's not editor in chief, is he? 287 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.440 No, he's the editor. 288 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:41.640 He's the editor. editor. 289 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:47.880 I liked the fact that we had this human person controlling things and you knew that there was somebody above and I quite liked his performance in it. 290 00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:50.220 I mean, I think, is it Tens and Greg? 291 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:52.500 Oh, yeah, she steals the episode, but... 292 00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:53.640 She steals the season, I think. 293 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:54.180 She's incredible. 294 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:55.680 She steals anything she's in. 295 00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:58.500 No, I thought he I actually quite liked him. 296 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.480 Yes, no, he's all right. 297 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:02.700 I just I don't think he's the best part of the episode. 298 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.640 It is a classic kind of Holmesian villain, I think. 299 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:16.500 Like someone who is sort of technocratic and has, you know, a bunch of people, sort of pushing buttons and things, but he also has someone above him whom he has to be kind of obsequious too. 300 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:24.539 So it is, it's a little bit like uh, gatherer Hade from the sun makers, only not quite so big, uh, a performance. 301 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.079 And it's done by a really, really talented comic actor. 302 00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:30.660 And it is massive overcasting too, isn't it? 303 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.839 But the whole episode is massive overcasting. 304 00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.720 So you get someone like Anna Maxwell Martin who plays Suki. 305 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.500 And she's now, I would say, as famous as David Tennant in Britain. 306 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:41.880 She's huge, isn't she? 307 00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:42.720 Probably she? 308 00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:43.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 309 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:44.039 What has she done? 310 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.779 So she did Pembley. 311 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:53.339 She was Elizabeth Bennett in the sort of BBC's sequel to Pride and Prejudice, which was based on a novel by PD James, I think. 312 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:59.940 And directly after this, she was the star of the BBC adaptation of Bleak House, which was absolutely amazing. 313 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:12.839 It was made in half hour chunks. and was just a fantastic adaptation and went out after EastEnders, I think, in half hour chunks, or underlining the parallels between like the soaps of the day and, you know, Dickens. 314 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:21.480 But she is, yeah, she's done a 1000000 drama series and won a 1000000 awards and, you know, she's not a Carrie Mulligan or Andy Garfield, but she's not far off. 315 00:23:21.539 --> 00:23:25.619 I really like her and I really like when I initially watched this straight away. 316 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:30.599 She was the one character on this station that I that I sort of felt connected to. 317 00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:37.740 I think the actor who plays Catholica, very deliberately lets her be foregrounded because we are going to follow her. 318 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:44.700 Because the other thing about this story is, I think it's designed to give Chris and Billy a break. 319 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.259 Yeah, they're backgrounded, aren't they? 320 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:47.759 They're not in it all that much. 321 00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:56.880 And we've already had that thing and we'll see it again next week where the doctor's job isn't so much to solve the problem as to inspire someone else to solve the problem. 322 00:23:56.940 --> 00:24:01.799 And that structure allows them to just have a sort of few scenes. 323 00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:11.880 And so Suki actually drives the episode for a good sort of 5 minutes when she goes up to floor 500 and we kind of discover what's really happening through her eyes. 324 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:15.900 And the doctor and Rose kind of know that they've been backgrounded in the story. 325 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.359 They just kind of amble around and then decide to do something about it. 326 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:26.400 They sort of turn up, eat a Cronkberger, watch demonstration, go upstairs and get slobbed on by Max, which is, you know, just a Saturday night. 327 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:30.900 Yes, listeners, I believe that is true. 328 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.400 I have witnessed that. 329 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:46.259 There's one thing that does annoy me is the fact that Max dies because it gets too hot, right? 330 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.000 and just falls apart like within seconds. 331 00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:53.880 Heaven forbid anything would ever go wrong with the actual cooling system at any point. 332 00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:57.660 But when Suki goes up and she fires her stays up. 333 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.900 Like, he's immune to that, obviously, you know? 334 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.119 just kind of get a bit sort of like, really? 335 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:03.839 Like, okay. 336 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:11.460 I think that the heat thing is a simple kind of solution, but it is also doing some kind of metaphorical job as well. 337 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:16.740 I do love how he looks like he's crapping himself when he gets on. 338 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:20.279 And like all of these chunks are falling down and it's all... 339 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:37.559 It is such a great character design with the teeth and the way the jaws snap, you know, like it's super, super angry and it super fits with the just the sort of incoherent growling noise that it makes when it speaks, which I just think is really terrific. 340 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.140 You'd be angry if you were stuck on the ceiling all the time. 341 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:41.220 It is funny. 342 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:48.299 It is parallel back to episode one where the doctor talks to the nesting consciousness and it goes and the doctor can talk to it. 343 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.920 Here, he can talk to Max and nobody else understands, you know, what's going on. 344 00:25:52.980 --> 00:26:05.099 It's interesting as well because what I thought was one of the deficiencies in rows was that when they're talking to the nestine and it's basically not talking back, you don't get a doctor villain confrontation in the traditional sense. 345 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:14.339 And what I thought you really needed there was like a Channing character from Spearhead from Space, which is putting the human face on the villain, enabling a conversation with the doctor. 346 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.299 In the long game, you get that because you've got the editor there. 347 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.700 And so the editor is fulfilling the confrontation role. 348 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:21.839 And so it works a lot better. 349 00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:26.099 And it's a great confrontation because he doesn't know who they are for a lot of it. 350 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.839 And then all of a sudden it all just kicks, kicks in with Adam and his spike. 351 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:34.680 So perhaps we should talk about his little subplot and what's going on with him. 352 00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.740 The idea was that this was the companion that would fail. 353 00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:39.779 Yeah, companion who couldn't. 354 00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:42.960 And I really loved him in the previous episode. 355 00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:48.119 Like you're supposed to, you know, I really thought he was cute and sort of, you know, great, come on board. 356 00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:55.079 And then when he faints, you just kind of get this feeling, oh, you know, there's a bit of an unease and then he needs to go off by himself. 357 00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:03.660 You go ahead and when he takes Rose's phone, there's a look and you just kind of, yes, it's all just about to go a little bit pear shaped. 358 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:09.900 I mean, it's that thing that you have to do at the very end of the cold open is the most important part of the episode. 359 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.480 That's when you say what the episode's going to be about. 360 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:15.119 And so that's when he fails. 361 00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:27.420 So we know that he's going to fail, and one of his jobs is to take a lot of the load off Chris and Billy so that we have another plot because there's a problem with having a doctor and a companion, isn't there? 362 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:34.259 that you do want to split the plot up, like we will do, say, in the empty child in a couple of weeks time. 363 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:39.359 But the problem with that is then you don't get to see the doctor and the companion interact for a whole episode. 364 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:45.359 And so we still get to see the doctor and Rose solve the problem or investigate the problem. 365 00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:51.900 But then we get this sort of whole world building thing with Adam and this sort of, I mean, it's a comedy someplot, isn't it? 366 00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:52.920 It is. 367 00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:57.779 And he gets to go and get something put in his head. 368 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.019 I like the fact that he's a bit useless. 369 00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.960 He does what I think most people would do in that situation. 370 00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:06.480 They'd be thinking of a way of profiting from it. 371 00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:08.039 They think, oh, look at this great technology. 372 00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:09.779 Wow, I can make a huge amount of money from this. 373 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.680 Yeah. 374 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:14.400 And, um, I like the fact that he's fails. 375 00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:19.319 He's kind of like Dodo, without the groovy toy maker outfits or the syphilis. 376 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:24.480 But yeah, I like his role in things. 377 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:26.099 And I like the fact that he's an every man. 378 00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:28.859 Yeah, and I think it's set up quite well. 379 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:33.299 I mean, last week, you know, he was in the employ of Van Staten. 380 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:39.599 He was kind of hiding artefacts from him, like he had a collection of guns that he hadn't told Van Staten about. 381 00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:52.980 He was slightly problematic, you know, he was kind of the villain's henchman in a way. and bringing him on board and having him be kind of venal and seeking to profit. 382 00:28:53.039 --> 00:29:00.720 And that whole thing is so wonderfully done because, you know, he gets Rose's phone and rings his parents. 383 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:06.240 And they have an answering machine and I think I'll have to explain in the show notes what one of those is. 384 00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:10.140 But those scenes are just wonderful. 385 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.839 And the thing that makes them wonderful is that little dog. 386 00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:22.559 That little dog, those seats would have been deadly boring, you know, because it's just an answering machine on a table and we're listening to Adam Speak. 387 00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:29.099 But the fact that the dog hears Adam's voice and reacts to it and runs in and sort of jumps up on the table is really terrific. 388 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.140 It just is a little clever. 389 00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:38.640 I don't know whether it's Russell's or the director's idea, but it just adds a little bit of interest in humanity to those scenes. 390 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:45.779 And certainly when we get there at the end, you know, when we get back to Adam's place, it's just a normal suburban house. 391 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:50.099 He's just a kid from the not too distant future, just an ordinary English kid. 392 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:51.539 It's cute, I think. 393 00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:01.619 So, of course, he ends up on floor 16 for medical and meets the wonderful Tens and Greg. 394 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:02.220 Who does she play? 395 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:03.119 What is her character's name? 396 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:04.380 Oh, the nurse, I think. 397 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:05.160 Just the nurse. 398 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 399 00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:08.339 But I just love all of the conversation with her. 400 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:10.259 It's sort of like, who are you? 401 00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:13.920 And then her entire performance is based on looks, little looks. 402 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:16.680 Yeah, and it's sort of like you from what? 403 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:17.099 Mars? 404 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:18.119 Has something to do with that? 405 00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:21.720 Yeah, the University of Mars or something he guesses that that must be a university. 406 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:23.460 Maybe he watched Futurama or something. 407 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:36.480 But it's almost like he's having 2nd thoughts, like, you know, but she just keeps next to question, then he goes back, there's hesitation, but it just sort of comes together, you know, with the unlimited... like a seduction between them. 408 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 409 00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:39.599 It's really well structured. 410 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:43.380 Just keeps dragging back just when you think they're going to, he's going to give up. 411 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:45.660 No, drags you back in, drags you back in. 412 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:51.119 But also, this comes down to the performance as well, because Tamzungri is, you know, a master of that kind of drawl delivery. 413 00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:54.779 Yeah, just absolutely deadpan, you know, really. 414 00:30:54.779 --> 00:31:01.259 Even the absurd comic moment with the vomiter massic, which is so wonderfully stupid. 415 00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:02.640 Brilliant, double taker. 416 00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:05.700 I just love that, the vomitomatic. 417 00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:06.960 It's still that too, you know? 418 00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:10.500 It's just so silly, but it just brings a smile to my face. 419 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.359 It's Russell doing the future for laughs, which he tends to do. 420 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:17.880 And it super humiliates Adam. 421 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:21.059 You know, like he ends up with a sort of spike, the info spike in his head. 422 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:35.819 But this just incredibly stupid moment where he sort of vomits up an ice cube and that's clearly that's what he's left with from now on, you know, like whenever he vomits, it'll just be a neat little ice cube that he can sort of quickly dispose of. 423 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:44.579 It's interesting that they say, Nathan, that his spike is set to the default, which is the click of the fingers. 424 00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:48.720 So how does one change that default? 425 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:49.440 There must be a way. 426 00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:50.579 There's an iPhone app. 427 00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.380 But of course, he never discovers that. 428 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.200 So if he's stuck with his hole in the head, he has a button in the back of his head. 429 00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:58.559 When we never do find out, you know? 430 00:31:58.619 --> 00:32:02.579 It is such a great closing gag as well. 431 00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.700 On new to who they always talk about the BBC crap joke at the end of a Doctor Who story. you know, every so often. 432 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:16.380 Like the worst one, I think, is Seeds of Doom, like the most embarrassing crap joke at the end of the story. 433 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:28.019 But this is so wonderfully done because I think that you can just about see it coming because she starts to say something that's going to require a click of the fingers so you can just about see it coming. 434 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:29.339 She clicks her fingers. 435 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:30.359 We don't see it. 436 00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:31.559 We hear the sound. 437 00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.940 We don't cut to him. 438 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.920 So they save money on the effect. 439 00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:42.599 But what they get is the mother's just absolutely superb reaction and it's so brilliantly timed straight into the credits. 440 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:46.920 And I think it's the only time this season where we end on just an outright gag. 441 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:49.079 And I think it works just wonderfully well. 442 00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:51.960 Yeah, it sort of catches the tone of the entire episode. 443 00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:54.000 It is a stunning ending. 444 00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:57.720 I just I just watched it to get to that point to see her reaction. 445 00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:59.759 I just think it's so clever and it's just brilliant. 446 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:00.839 I really, really love that. 447 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:05.339 And I love all the stuff before that with the doctor and then, of course, Rose, you know. 448 00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:09.240 Oh, they're torturing him by repeatedly clicking their fingers and stuff. 449 00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:10.319 Yeah. 450 00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:11.160 It's interesting. 451 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:17.339 You were talking about dodo previously, like how poor syphilitic dodo. 452 00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:22.200 Here, Adam sort of, you know, he's the dodo. 453 00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:25.740 He talks about being in the Tartars, but we never get to see that reaction. 454 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.500 It's not missing a trick, right? 455 00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:40.440 It's because he's a failure as a companion, that we never go there, but the potential was to have somebody else new in the TARDIS to see their reaction, but it's not the point of this at all. 456 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:45.299 Do you think it would have given him added legitimacy if we'd seen him sort of in the TARDIS with the doctor and rose? 457 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:52.980 I actually think that Russell is aware of these stupid arguments that we have over whether so-and-so counts as a companion or not. 458 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:57.660 So Sarah Kingdom's a companion, but Brett Vine isn't, you know, and stuff like that. 459 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:03.359 And we have these lists and we have kind of rules about what makes a companion. 460 00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:09.659 And I think just as Russell wants to kind of get us to see stories in a different way as well. 461 00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:19.559 Like the main unit of narrative, I think, in the new series is the episode and the season and stories, you know, there's no part ones or part 2s. 462 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:27.960 Here, I think series one is set up so that we have someone who's there for 2 episodes so that we can argue about whether his accounts as a companion or not. 463 00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:31.199 And then we have Jack for a bunch of episodes as well. 464 00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:37.019 And does he count as a companion and, you know, what happens when he's left behind and things? 465 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:42.599 So I think Russell wants to break our way of thinking about the show. 466 00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:59.280 Like by the time this goes out, series 11 will have started or will be very close to starting and they're very definitely gone away from the idea that the doctor has companions and they're referred to in sort of publicity and things as the doctor's friends. 467 00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:09.539 Because I think we talked about that as well, the companion thing just is this relationship of a sexual nature, you know, like it's such an odd thing to talk about. 468 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:15.900 So it plays with the idea of a companion, but it also kind of wants us to throw it away, Abe, I think. 469 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.920 Well, that lovely line later on in the season with the dialect, said, the doctor, we have your associate. 470 00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:24.420 Yeah, well, the Daleks aren't going to understand what a friend is. 471 00:35:27.300 --> 00:35:30.480 I think Bruno and Langley does a good job of this. 472 00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:35.460 You know, he certainly is up to the task of acting against Tamsen and the others. 473 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.900 No, I think he's underrated. 474 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:43.920 You know, pity about all of his offscreen shenanigans later on with when he was in Coronation Street and letting go of that. 475 00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:48.239 But over these 2 episodes, I've really enjoyed his performance. 476 00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:51.719 Well, remember that at the time, he was well known from Coronation Street. 477 00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:57.300 So even though he was asopactor in voted commas, He was a well-known face. 478 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:01.079 And I think this is one of the brilliant things that Russell does. 479 00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:04.019 He's not against casting soap actors. 480 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.599 He recognises how good soap actors can be. 481 00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:22.440 And so he'll cast some of the most louded talents in the land, you know, Simon Callow and people like that, but up against them, he'll put in Bruno Langley from Coronation Street or Tracy Ann Cyberman, who is in EastEnders as Den Watt's wife, Chrissy. 482 00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:24.360 And it's good. 483 00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:28.260 He doesn't subscribe to that snobby attitude, that a soap actor is only a soap actor. 484 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.780 And 99% of the time it works. 485 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.980 You get great performances. 486 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:35.760 And you can see that he respects soap as a medium, I think. 487 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:53.880 You know, he, there's that scene in, um, clear as folk, where Vince meets a girl at a pub, and they bond over a shared love for Coronation Street, and, you know, they even lament the fact that it was put up against Doctor Who, you know, at one point. 488 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:57.900 And so I think he likes soap and certainly when he brings the show back. 489 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:08.340 I mean, every 3 weeks having us go back to earth and meet the mum and the boyfriend and that kind of thing, there's definite sort of soap storytelling going on there. 490 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:13.500 Yeah, and I think one of Russell's previous big hits was the grand, which was set in a hotel. 491 00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:16.320 And while it wasn't a soup, it had that kind of structure to it. 492 00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:19.260 I think Russell appreciates soap writing. 493 00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:22.260 He thinks good soap writing is some of the best writing out there. 494 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:23.820 And same with performances. 495 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:38.460 I think it's very strange that science fiction fans kind of look down their nose, it's so, because enjoying something long running like Star Trek and something long running like home and away. they're pretty similar kind of experiences I think. 496 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:39.119 Yeah. 497 00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:46.619 There's one other aspect of this episode that I think is quite unique for this season and that's the musical score. 498 00:37:46.739 --> 00:37:58.079 I think this score for this episode, with all of its bleeps and blops, is very old school Doctor Who, and very different from so many of the other episodes where you got Rose's theme and other themes running through it. 499 00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:04.920 I just think when I watched this back, it was something that just, I noticed that I thought the musical school was quite different. 500 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:06.360 It is different. 501 00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:07.920 It's not my favourite. 502 00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:09.000 Murray work. 503 00:38:09.059 --> 00:38:11.820 When he does sort of whimsical future stories. 504 00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:21.239 He tends to have those kind of tinkly tonkly, um, knowingly comedy scores, and I don't think it necessarily works. 505 00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:24.900 It doesn't add a whole lot, but, you know, he's 50% genius, so that's fine. 506 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.900 I'm a big fan of the score for the end of the world. 507 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:28.739 And the world's great. 508 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:28.980 Yeah. 509 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:35.579 No, I'm just saying it was just thematically very different from all the overarching themes that you get in his work. 510 00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.400 And I just didn't really pick up on any of them in this particular episode. 511 00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:44.820 Murray underscores emotion a lot, and there's not a lot of emotion in this episode, so we sort of left with scoring the action. 512 00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:47.280 Yeah, the stakes are quite low, aren't they? 513 00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:53.099 And the doctor and rows are a bit sidelined and so there isn't really much opportunity for their big thematic things. 514 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:58.139 And so it is action and atmosphere that he has to that he has to create. 515 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:02.099 But as a standard doctor episode, as you mentioned, Peter. 516 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:13.679 I think that this one, it flies under the radar, and I certainly think it's one that people should go back and rewatch and see all of this interesting stuff that's going on with a new perspective. 517 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:19.380 Yeah, and certainly now, you know, now that it is so incredibly timely. 518 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.679 It's so prescient, it has important things to say, I think. 519 00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:26.400 Yeah, sort of, it's an average episode, but that's not a bad thing. 520 00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:29.460 There's a lot of good stuff in an average episode. 521 00:39:53.519 --> 00:40:02.280 Well, Elissa, we've toppled the Murdochracy and dropped Adam off home, so it's time to take a relaxing and not at all emotionally exhausting trip to the 1980s. 522 00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:04.199 We'll see you next week for Father's Day. 523 00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:12.539 In the meantime, you can find us at Flightthrough Entirety.com, flight through Entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FDE podcast on Twitter. 524 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:19.079 Don't forget to check out Bond Finger, our commentary podcast covering 50 years of the James Bond films. 525 00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:24.780 That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. 526 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:30.900 Until next time, may you remember to bring an umbrella when the doctor visits your workplace and detonates your boss. 527 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:32.579 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 528 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:34.320 See you soon Good night. 529 00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:34.920 Thank you very much. 530 00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:46.559 That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Todd BLB, and Peter Griffiths, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Orberg. 531 00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:53.579 This episode, Eater Kronkberger, was recorded on the 5th of August 2018 and released on the 7th of October. 532 00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:03.300 Today is, of course, a historic day for Doctor Who, with the release of the 1st episode of the Jody Whittaker era, The Woman Who Fell to Earth. 533 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:09.599 But be assured that you'll get to hear the definitive FTE take on it sometime in late 2023. 534 00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:19.079 So let me try and do an outro. then we'll go and walk around for a 2nd and then we'll do... 535 00:41:19.139 --> 00:41:21.539 Did you notice, well, talking about world building earlier. 536 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:34.380 So, conversation between us. that when they talk about the floods in Glasgow, it actually cuts to the screen behind Catholica and it says New Caledonia or Caledonia Prime floods. 537 00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.119 And so it's Russell's World Building. 538 00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:37.380 He not talking about real Glasgow. 539 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.860 He's talking about new, new, new, new, new, Glasgow, out. 540 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.760 It's great. 541 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:42.480 I love that stuff. 542 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:57.840 That, that, um, that whole thing, like the, there isn't actually that much journalism you get to see in a story that's ostensibly about journalism, but the little titbits are just, it's silly Doctor Who world stuff, which I just think is wonderful. 543 00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:14.820 Talking about the budget earlier where they couldn't afford aliens and things like that for this story, when they have that little, where they're looking at the info spike for the 1st time, and Kathika says, ladies and gentlemen, multi-sex robot, and undecided, there's no multi-sex robot and undecided that we can see there. 544 00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.559 But I think that might be us. 545 00:42:16.619 --> 00:42:18.900 I'll take robot, Todd, your multisex. 546 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:20.219 Oh, thank you. 547 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:21.239 There you go listeners. 548 00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:22.559 That's what I was waiting for. 549 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:29.760 Help me now. right Let's keep laughing, Nathan. 550 00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:30.539 I will. 551 00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:31.440 I always do. 552 00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.460 All right, here goes. 553 00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:36.480 Well, dear listener, we've toppled the murdocracy.