WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:06:43 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:43.799 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast brought to you by Vitex Health Drinks. 2 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:48.479 That's VITEX and use the offer code Useless at checkout. 3 00:00:48.539 --> 00:00:49.679 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:50.460 I'm James. 5 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:51.299 And I'm Daniel. 6 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:58.979 It's 1987, Margaret Thatcher's prime minister again, and it looks like the driver of that oncoming car isn't paying close attention to the road. 7 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:02.520 Doctor Who finally gets its teeth into some real family drama. 8 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:03.960 It's Father's Day. 9 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.219 Oh, man, I'm so excited to do this one. 10 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.579 I've always loved this story, and I'm so thrilled to be on. 11 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:30.180 Thanks for having me. 12 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:31.500 Oh, no problem at all. 13 00:01:31.620 --> 00:01:33.299 Thank you for agreeing to join us. 14 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:37.560 So, what is it about this story that puts it up among your favourites? 15 00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:39.599 Well, it's a few different things. 16 00:01:39.659 --> 00:01:43.560 I am a soccer for, and I don't do it very often in who, and I think it's probably a good thing. 17 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:52.140 I'm a sucker for sort of things where characters kind of recurse upon themselves where they're in, there's 2 people in the same time thing and they're not supposed to touch each other. 18 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:53.099 I like that stuff. 19 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:54.780 I think if you overused it. 20 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:55.680 It would be rubbish. 21 00:01:55.739 --> 00:02:02.219 But I just like the idea of playing with little bits about time travel, and I think it's just such a, like a rich vein to mine if you're a writer. 22 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:03.900 There's so many ways to go with it. 23 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:07.560 And I think this one goes, it keeps it, keeps it to a small story, which is really great. 24 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:20.520 It's one of the best things about, um, one of the, the 1st season of um, Nuhu in 2005, as most of the stories are quite small, and focus on family, and this one's just got a lot of great writing, and I just love the character of the dad. 25 00:02:20.580 --> 00:02:23.340 I think he's Sean Dingwall, who plays him, is just so great. 26 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:24.360 He holds the whole thing together. 27 00:02:24.419 --> 00:02:27.479 And there's some, there's a lot of, there's a lot of good emotional stuff in here. 28 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:30.419 Sometimes it's a bit cheesy, but on the whole, it's wonderful. 29 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:30.659 Yeah. 30 00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:36.960 I have to confess that this is one of the ones that I cry in and like I'm fairly stoic. 31 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:45.659 You know, I'm fairly well known for my high level of emotional control, but, you know, like I cry at supermarket openings and school fates and things like that. 32 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.479 But this is one of... that's right. 33 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:52.319 This is one of the 10 or 11 episodes of series one that I cry. 34 00:02:52.379 --> 00:02:58.560 But perhaps I'm not ashamed to. not ashamed to admit that I'm cold and dead inside, as most of my friends know. 35 00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:04.319 Yeah, I get a quick catch up today just to catch up with it and watch it again and I was tearing up a couple of times. 36 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:05.759 It's great. powerful. 37 00:03:05.819 --> 00:03:07.379 Yeah, I think, I think two. 38 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:17.159 Like, it's something that we haven't really had the opportunity to have in Doctor Who very often, and that is a regular fam that's part of the show. 39 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:30.539 So we're back, you know, every 3 weeks, we've been back to the Tyler family, and we've heard Rose's dad mentioned, we know that he's died from the Unquiet Dead, I think. 40 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:32.639 We're invested in her. 41 00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:42.659 We've seen enough of Jackie to have a sort of past version of Jackie work, you know, like we know her well enough in the present in her relationship. 42 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:44.460 Yeah, it's mostly the hair. 43 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:45.599 She just works the hair. 44 00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:54.479 Yeah, we've gotten to nowhere enough that you're safe to go back and explore like a past, even angrier version of Jackie and sort of know where you are. know where you stand. 45 00:03:54.539 --> 00:03:55.740 Yeah, yeah. 46 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:57.240 I think I think you're right. 47 00:03:57.300 --> 00:04:01.979 I think Sean Dingwell is yet another superb guest star this series. 48 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:08.340 Another character who is inspired by the doctor to do the right thing and kind of solve the puzzle. 49 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:09.300 He's great. 50 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:10.020 He's just great. 51 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:11.879 Partly because he's so ordinary. 52 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:16.019 Like he's, you know, he's Rose's dad, he's, and she's been sort of raised to think he's amazing. 53 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:27.420 And it's one of those great sort of ideas, another thing of great writing, like that sort of thing where you, I don't know about being disappointed by your parents or, you know, Rose discovers that he's not all that she was led to believe he was. 54 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:29.220 It's just a great little idea. 55 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:34.139 And it also taps into that thing. everyone goes through. you know, when you sort of get to your teens. 56 00:04:34.259 --> 00:04:44.879 And it seems like such a silly thing to realise. but when you 1st time you sort of realised that your parents were real people before you were even around and they, you know, they had a relationship and they're real people now. 57 00:04:44.939 --> 00:04:49.620 And it's such a silly, obvious, selfish thing for a child to realise. the 1st time you sort of get that. 58 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:50.939 It's a big thing. 59 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:55.079 And this is where she gets, she actually gets to go back and see it, which, you know, we don't get to do. 60 00:04:55.139 --> 00:04:57.120 I totally agree with that. 61 00:04:57.180 --> 00:05:01.800 I mean, this episode just, I'm bawling by about halfway through. 62 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.500 It's just so beautifully put together. 63 00:05:04.620 --> 00:05:11.399 I mean, it's almost as if the story has been written as a eulogy to her father. 64 00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:13.800 It starts with that line. 65 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:24.420 Um, Peter Allen Tyler, my dad, the most wonderful man of the world, born 15th September, 1954, and then ends with like his his, um, the day he died. 66 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.720 Like, it's the same line just with the date change. 67 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:45.360 Yeah, and the whole episode is like a, it's like a memorial to his father, she never knew, and then, I think in fact, the very end of the cold open is the photo of Smiling Pete, and then the very end of the entire episode is that as well. 68 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:47.639 That's the last shot, the same photo. 69 00:05:47.699 --> 00:05:52.019 Oh, I think they're walking towards the TARDIS, but it's the last close-up episode. 70 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:56.459 But there's something really beautiful about, I mean, let's just go straight to the end. 71 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.019 We are the ramblingest Doctor Who podcast currently available. 72 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:04.500 Rose gets to fix her father's death. 73 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:05.939 Do you know what I mean? 74 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:06.720 She can't change it. 75 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:08.459 She tries to change it. 76 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:09.000 She tries. 77 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:11.040 Yeah, she tries to stop it happening. 78 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:17.519 But Jackie is telling the story at the end, and it's different from the story that we hear. 79 00:06:17.579 --> 00:06:23.160 And it's fixed in 2 ways, and both of them, I think, are terrifically humane. 80 00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:31.860 I mean, the most obvious way is that he doesn't die alone, that there's someone there that we now know was his daughter comforting him. 81 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:43.319 But also, the thing that I like is that in the 1st version, it was a hit and run, you know, where someone presumably spent the rest of their life feeling guilty about what they've done. 82 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:48.540 And, He's tearing up as he's tearing up. 83 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.000 At the end, he gets forgiven. 84 00:06:51.060 --> 00:06:51.779 Do you know what I mean? 85 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:56.399 Like Jackie forgives that guy and says he was just a young kid and it wasn't his fault. 86 00:06:56.459 --> 00:06:58.800 He stayed and waited for the police to come. 87 00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:00.720 And so he gets forgiven. 88 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:03.540 And I just think that's so extraordinarily beautiful. 89 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:17.819 And it's what he was saying before is, you know, the small scale of the story, that it matters on a level of human interactions and things like loss and forgiveness and love. 90 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:20.339 You know, what drives this whole story. 91 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:25.500 There's hardly any space corridors or guns or, you know, anything like that. 92 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:30.060 And, you know, like I just think that ending is spectacularly well judged. 93 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:33.660 I just love, I love how it starts and ends in the same way. 94 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:39.180 I think her original intent is just to be the someone there to be there so he doesn't die on his own. 95 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:44.220 Uh, and um, I think it's still sort of up in the air about whether she actually planned to save them or not. 96 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:45.839 I don't think she, she did. 97 00:07:45.899 --> 00:07:48.240 But I mean, at the end, that's what happens. 98 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:50.100 She's just there, you know, so he's not alone. 99 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:52.079 And also he knows who she is. 100 00:07:52.139 --> 00:07:55.740 So, you know, it means more to him than if it was just a stranger. 101 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:02.699 And I just think it's beautiful that the whole, the way it's fixed isn't that he gets to live because that would be a little bit strange and against the rules of Doctor Who generally. 102 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.819 But just the fact that he didn't die alone. 103 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:07.680 I think that's just so simple and powerful and wonderful. 104 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:11.819 I also think it would be a bit sort of science fiction-y and magic. 105 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:19.800 Like in reality, you don't get to save a dead parent, all that you get to do is change the way that you think about what happened. 106 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:32.879 You know, one of the reasons that going ahead, that blue suit metacrises doctor doesn't quite work is, you know, how do you feel when a magic replica of your boyfriend, you know? 107 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:34.860 Do you know what I mean? 108 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:37.440 Like it's so science fiction-y that it's hard to relate to. 109 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:41.340 But here, you know, we could never go back and save Pete. 110 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.139 We know how TV works. 111 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:44.580 We know how Doctor Who works. 112 00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:49.980 And for it to have any emotional resonance at all, it has to be kind of real, I think. 113 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:56.279 And like, like he says, he, he, it's not like he didn't think about going back and saving his entire race of people on the planet he's from. 114 00:08:56.340 --> 00:08:58.200 If he could he would, but he can't. 115 00:08:58.259 --> 00:08:59.399 So that's not yet. 116 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:00.899 No, no, you wait. 117 00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:02.580 Flash forward to 2013. 118 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:08.220 But, um, but it's you're right. but everyone's got a dad, you know? 119 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:10.440 and everyone thinks about when their dad's going to die. 120 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:11.279 Yeah. 121 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:23.399 One of my favourite lines in the entire episode, the that line, where, where Pete says, I'm your dad is, like, yeah, it's my, it's my job for it to be my fault. 122 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:28.379 That's actually a quote from Paul Cornell's father. 123 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:37.259 Yeah, I read that, so Paul Cornell's dad is, I mean, that Pete's sort of loosely and partly based on, on Paul Cornell's own dad, who's a bit of a dell boy himself. 124 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:38.100 I love that. 125 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:59.399 Yeah, no, like, that's the story that Paul tells at least, is that his father was, you know, very similar to the character that he wrote, he, um, had went through dozens of jobs, like, trying to, like, find something that worked and, including selling health drinks, and eventually ended up running a, like, a vetting shop. 126 00:09:59.399 --> 00:09:59.759 Right. 127 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:00.299 Yeah. 128 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:00.539 Yeah. 129 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:10.320 So, um, it's just, I think maybe that's why this story has so much emotional depth to it is that he's writing what he knows. 130 00:10:10.379 --> 00:10:23.639 I think too, that we kind of have Paul Cornell to thank for introducing this sort of emotional depth into Doctor Who, in the sense that he did that during the wilderness years, in the new adventures. 131 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:27.419 You know, he's one of the very 1st people to put a new adventure out. 132 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:30.539 And it's a very strange story. 133 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:34.139 So it's timeworm revelation. 134 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:41.100 And, you know, it's a sort of strange mindscape and a sort of internal examination of what the doctor is like. 135 00:10:41.220 --> 00:10:52.139 But it does hinge on ideas of sort of forgiveness and sacrifice and that kind of thing in a way that we hadn't really seen that much of. 136 00:10:52.200 --> 00:11:03.240 And I think it's, you know, I think that if you're putting together a stable of writers to bring Doctor Who back in 2005, you know, you'd be absolutely crazy to not include Paul Cornell for that reason. 137 00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:08.700 Yeah, absolutely crazy not to include book on now when you're putting Dr. back together in 2018. 138 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:09.480 Oh, well. 139 00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:11.460 He's very busy. 140 00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:28.320 I've always felt like the 1st season of New Who has a tiny little echo of a feeling of the last couple of seasons of classic coup and a little bit of tiny bit of new adventures DNA in it as well, especially with the Paul Cornell bits. 141 00:11:28.379 --> 00:11:35.220 And yeah, like focussing on companion stories a little more than just straight up doctor or having the doctor in the background, which is which he kind of is a lot in this one. 142 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.279 But I feel like all that emotional stuff with the dad really carries the whole thing. 143 00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:47.519 And one of the bits that really gets me and, you know, made me moisten up a little bit was when he he's got Rose alone in the church and he, you know, he figures out who he is and what's going on. 144 00:11:47.580 --> 00:11:50.039 And he, the 1st question he asks is, am I a good dad? 145 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:51.120 in the future. 146 00:11:51.179 --> 00:11:52.980 And that's, that, got me so bad. 147 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:54.960 That's like one of those things that all parents want to know. 148 00:11:55.019 --> 00:12:00.120 All dads are insecure about whether or not they're good and he gets to ask his future daughter and find out. 149 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:08.100 And not only is that so loaded with emotion, but also if she can't, she can't answer the question because, but she can't tell him he's dead and that's just such a, I love that moment. 150 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.240 In fact, there's a perfect blend of comedy too because it's like, am I bald? 151 00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:18.299 Yeah, you know, like, you know, she he starts asking questions. 152 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:20.399 It's like, 0 my god, I've realised something terrible. 153 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:21.240 Am I bald? 154 00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:24.360 It turns out to be, you know, much, much worse than that. 155 00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:43.679 I think what's clever about that scene as well is how smart Pete is because, like, Rose is smarter than Jackie, I think are just sort of more competent generally than Jackie is, and you kind of wonder, well, you know, where they should get it from. 156 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:46.019 And Pete is an ordinary person. 157 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:50.460 He doesn't know he's in a science fiction program where people can travel back in time from the future. 158 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.779 That's just not a possibility that is open to him to think about. 159 00:12:54.840 --> 00:13:03.539 But he pieces it together in a really clever way, and we're allowed to watch him do that, and he even shows us a little bit of his working. 160 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:09.960 And so you get this overall feeling that he's a smart, clever, caring man. 161 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:14.940 Whereas Jackie, I think, comes off really badly in this story. 162 00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:17.820 Um, you know, I adore Jackie. 163 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:25.320 I think she's sort of really lovely, but she's so horrible too. that awful fight that they have outside the church in front of all their friends. 164 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:26.700 That's great. 165 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:40.019 And that's, I feel like that's the 1st moment that Rose realises that her mom, you know, is kind of an embellishing all those years telling stories about her dad, you know, telling her how he was perfect and wonderful and they were really happy and, you know, that's not necessarily the truth and I love that sort of reveal and you see it on her face. 166 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.519 Yeah, yeah. 167 00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:42.240 Yeah. 168 00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:44.639 She calls out you're not like this or something. 169 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:45.539 Yeah, yeah. 170 00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:58.860 In fact, those stories, I think, actually do reflect really well on Jackie and having her just sitting there, you know, not being big giant performance Jackie, but just being sort of quiet, Jackie, talking to her daughter about her dad. 171 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.980 There's something really sweet about those things. 172 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:03.360 But funny in the story. 173 00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:07.019 He has actually become the best dad in the world. 174 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:07.620 Yeah. 175 00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:12.360 I mean, like he's a bit rubbish to start off with, but then he becomes a hero. 176 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:16.980 Yeah, he's become the father that her mother always told her he was. 177 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:21.120 Yeah, like, oh, no, say, I'm now getting emotional. 178 00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:21.840 Yeah, yeah. 179 00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:23.820 But it answers the question. 180 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:24.659 Am I a good dad? 181 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:25.860 And the answer is yes. 182 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:27.179 You know, he does say. 183 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.279 I can't be there to bring you up. 184 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.820 I can't do the picnics or any of those sorts of things, but I can do these. 185 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:41.340 Yeah, he can't get his life together. can't do simple things like be on time or, you know, he's generally useless, but, you know, this is the one thing that he can do. 186 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:42.899 He can die to save everyone else. 187 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:44.759 I thought that was really, and I love how he figures. 188 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.659 Obviously, by then he's figured out who, you know, that Rose is his daughter. 189 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:53.820 But at the end, the last hit where he figures out that he is dead, he's in the future, he's dead and he's not meant to be there. 190 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:57.059 And then he even figures out that it's the car outside. 191 00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:06.720 And just the scene where he's sort of saying goodbye to them, that's the bit where I really, I was like, I'm just going to stop trying not to cry because it was just so, it's, it's heavy and it's great. 192 00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:14.759 And, you know, he gets the chance to say to meet his daughter, uh, and say goodbye to her, which is like not something that most people who have died before that you ever have grown up get to do. 193 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.460 And I thought that bit where he said, you know, she says it's not fair. 194 00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:22.559 And he says, you know, I'll think of all the extra hours I've had. you know, people don't, no one else in the world has had that. 195 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:23.879 And I thought that was wonderful. 196 00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:28.860 The beautiful thing about it is that you're not crying because it's sad. 197 00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:37.080 You're not crying because Rose is losing her father, you're crying because there's something so incredibly humane and warm about it all. 198 00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:43.860 And like Paul Cornell is a religious man and his wife is an Anglican priest. 199 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:47.820 And you know, he puts at the centre of this story. 200 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:53.759 A story of self-sacrifice, you know, a man who saves the world by laying down his life. 201 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:55.139 In front of a church. 202 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 203 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:58.259 And, well, yeah. 204 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.399 And you know, like the, he had that big church character in timeworm revelation as well. 205 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:11.879 It's such a resonant story because it's something that is, you know, embedded so deep in our culture and that we've heard told so many times. 206 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.879 And I think it's really well told here. 207 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:23.159 It's beautiful. quite different. 208 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:27.779 No, um, Simon Pegg is originally of, well, of Pete Taylor. 209 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:29.039 What? 210 00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:30.240 Yeah. 211 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.159 Perfect. 212 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:44.700 Um, but he couldn't do the dates. and so, uh, not sure on doing well instead, would gave him the role of the editor in one game. 213 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.539 Would he have put on the accent to be Pete Tyler? 214 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:49.259 I don't know. 215 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.000 Would he have been would that have been any good? 216 00:16:51.059 --> 00:16:53.759 What do you have just have been Simon Pegg? 217 00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:54.360 You know what I mean? 218 00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:57.720 Where he always kind of, I think I prefer what we got. 219 00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:03.299 Yeah, well, he's very, the guy, well, Sean Dingwell, kind of played it as almost as a dell boy. 220 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.440 Like, he's kind of wearing the shabby suit and he's got the same sort of East London accent. 221 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:08.579 And the hair. 222 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:13.440 Yeah, that looks like he's going to go bald any minute. like just in that second. 223 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:14.460 Love that. 224 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.480 And yeah, it's great. he had by the next the next series. 225 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:19.980 Oh, well, he was older then, right? 226 00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:24.660 So, I mean, there are some actors that take over a role. 227 00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:26.519 You can't see them as anything but themselves. 228 00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:32.819 And sometimes that works in sort of small parts and things like Tams and Greg last week as the nurse in the long game. 229 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:39.420 But, uh, I think that Simon Pegg would have been completely wrong, uh, for Pete. 230 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:40.440 Oh, totally agree. 231 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:45.059 And I don't know that he does warmth quite so well as Sean Dingle does. 232 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.460 Sean Dingwell is just, he just plays it. 233 00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:50.279 He plays it so kind of, he exudes uselessness. 234 00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:52.559 But at the same time, he does. 235 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:53.339 I don't know how he does it. 236 00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:58.859 Maybe it's just the 80s, the suit and the with the sleeves pulled up, it just makes people look like idiots to me. 237 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:10.500 But, um, he plays are generally sort of flappy and useless, but he's got that warmth and, you know, he's got self-doubt and he's he's really trying. this character, you know, to make it make it happen and get their lives together. 238 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:20.220 And by the end of it, one of the reasons it's so heavy to watch him walk out there and it means so much for that goodbye scene is that you've been made to like him, despite his obvious faults and flaws. 239 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:21.299 He's only human. 240 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:22.980 But, you know, he loves his family. 241 00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:40.019 I did read recently that they were planning to make this one like a sort of a low budget story just about character and about family, but so the monsters weren't even going to be in it to start with, but they were sort of... 242 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.000 Well, they were grim Reaper characters. 243 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:43.440 Are they called Reapers? 244 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:50.099 Well, they're not referred to as reapers on screen, but they do have like a big sort of scythe thing. 245 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.299 You can see it more clearly in some of the photos, but the tail has a big scythe on it. 246 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.180 But the idea was that they would be guys in costumes. 247 00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.700 Yeah, they're going to be like death figures. 248 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:00.180 Right. 249 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:01.980 Actual Grim Reapers. 250 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.819 Yeah, basically, sort of weird, ethereal, grimly for characters. 251 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:12.539 But I believe. they were too similar to the adherence of the repeated meme. 252 00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:17.400 Any of the world and also they went, no, we want we want more monsters. 253 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.980 And yeah, so the budget blew out. 254 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:20.759 Yeah, that's what I read. 255 00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:22.319 They blew the budget out after they suggested. 256 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:27.599 I think it was even Cornell that suggested the monsters and then they just had to, they were completely, obviously completely CG. 257 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.319 I guess they just wanted a monster, some monster antagonists. 258 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:53.039 He suggested the rapers, and I think then Jane Tranter suggested that, or maybe let's make it more sort of action in more science fiction, and and so they, they, um, turn them into these sort of weird half shark, half fat, sort of dragon things, I think. 259 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:54.599 There was a trailer. 260 00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:08.160 I don't know if you remember this at the time that, um, that showed, it did show a few CG monsters, including the sort of running Civine from Aliens of London in their sort of CG form and, and the reapers. 261 00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:17.579 And I think that because there hadn't been CG and Doctor Who before, they clearly wanted to foreground this sort of new technology that they were using. 262 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.319 And I think they do a really good job. 263 00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:37.140 I like, um, There's one scene where the vicar gets killed and one of them sort of sweeps down to attack the vicar, and then it sort of decorously puts its wing in the way between the vicar that it's eating and the camera just to maintain our kind of PG. 264 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.839 Well, like when it when it goes after the dad. 265 00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:47.759 You really hear like, you know, thwacking sounds of like flesh being penetrated. but there's there's no, there's no blood flying, but you can tell that that guy is in pieces. 266 00:20:47.819 --> 00:20:52.140 He's totally eaten See, the sound effect there is a vulture. 267 00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:53.099 Okay. 268 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.799 Yeah, a very coded vulture, probably. 269 00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:11.099 I do like the effect they leave behind where you start to realise that it's not just happening at the church that it's happening all over the area, like I knew you end up with young Mickey at the playground, and everyone just sort of disappears around him in that sort of haunting 80s crappy playground. 270 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.099 I do like that, it's the streets are sort of deserted. 271 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:30.359 There's something really strange about that scene too, where you have a whole heap of people, like you've got like a homeless person drinking a bottle of wine and you've got someone kind of pruning roses and someone hanging out the laundry and stuff and you know that they're going to die because like why else are we showing them? 272 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:31.440 You know what that reminds me of? 273 00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:32.759 survival. 274 00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:33.660 Oh, yeah. 275 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:38.099 Kittlings, like in their point of view and then like, yeah, scream. 276 00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:39.960 Smash milk bottle. true. 277 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:43.799 I mean, those are the only 3 things that British people really do outside. 278 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:45.059 Yeah, you know, hang. 279 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:46.019 Yeah, that's it. 280 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.720 Otherwise it's indoors and talking about tennis and stuff. 281 00:21:48.779 --> 00:22:04.319 But, um, uh, despite what we identified as a small scale, there is also kind of a massive scale too, because even though it is a sort of small emotional story in the confines of a church, it is about the destruction of the world being at stake. 282 00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:10.200 But it's in a really kind of weird way because the way that time is presented. 283 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:14.819 I mean, the way that time is presented in Doctor Who, it's never like a physicist would present it. 284 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:20.519 But here time is sort of weird and mythical and has these sort of strange powers. 285 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:22.380 It's odd and magical. 286 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.160 In the same way that we criticise the uh, telling movie. 287 00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:28.019 It's magic dust. 288 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.980 Yeah, I just think that people who criticise Doctor Who for having magic in it are silly. 289 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.359 I mean, what have they been watching? 290 00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:46.200 Because I think the reason that we get to see Rose try to go and help her father and then fail is to kind of up the emotional tension. 291 00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:51.000 Like it's a really scary thing and it reminds you how confronting that would be. 292 00:22:51.059 --> 00:22:51.420 Yeah, yeah. 293 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.519 Like it really, it kind of ups the stakes. 294 00:22:53.579 --> 00:23:00.900 But then it also offers this sort of science fiction hand wavy explanation for why, um, it's so disastrous. 295 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.000 You know, there's 2 of them present in the same place. 296 00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:08.099 The doctor's aware that he's sort of breaking the rules, but he's he's an answerable to anyone these days. 297 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.559 There's Mary a mention of the Blunovic limitation. 298 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:17.039 Well, I'm really, I'm really happy they don't mention the awfully named stupid, stupid Blenovic limitation effect. 299 00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:19.079 I hate that. whenever people bring that up, I just go to sleep. 300 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:20.400 I do really... 301 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.900 It's in it. 302 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.099 It's not mentioned by name, but Rose gets told not to touch baby Rose. 303 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.599 Yeah, like the concepts there. 304 00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:35.160 I just really like how when there's the, they shoot the scene the same way the 2nd time, you know, he says, she says, can I have another go? 305 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:43.920 And he says, oh, I guess, all right. yeah they they but they're shot the same. you know, it comes around, the camera comes around the corner and you see them standing on the edge of that, um, awful looking housing estate. 306 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:51.539 By the way, it's suppressing how easily you can make a modern kind of housing estate area in any British city look like the 80s with very minimal effort. 307 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.640 Like I think they just took down some satellite dishes. 308 00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:57.059 I think they put some rave posters up and that was really basically it. 309 00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.640 Well, they looked like they were in the 80s and the 60s. 310 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:07.019 Well, no, that's I mean, because I grew up in Britain in the 80s and it is all concrete bollards and knackered playgrounds and it does feel like it does feel like a mishmash of different decades. 311 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:12.960 Like that's one of the reasons why remembrance of the Daleks was so easy to do just because so many parts of Shoreditch look like that time. 312 00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.400 They've barely changed. 313 00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:24.059 But I like how they sort of do the same shot coming around the corner and they're still standing the same place, but then you realise that you're actually with another Dr. and Rose who are looking around the corner of that building at them. 314 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:36.059 And he, you know, they don't go on They don't waffle on about time and how you shouldn't blower into yourself and how you shouldn't, blah, blah, blah, but he he's very serious and he says, this is the last chance you have to do this because we can't come back again because it's too weird. 315 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:37.200 Too many freaky things will happen. 316 00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:37.980 I just like that. 317 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:44.460 And then once she runs out there and saves him, the older version of Rose and the Doctor disappear and they don't explain it at all. 318 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:45.420 They don't tell you why. 319 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:46.440 And I quite like that. 320 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:55.920 Obviously, it's because that timeline's sort of been short circuited and they never go to do what they did because they just saw future versions of themselves, save Pete. 321 00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:59.759 I just like that they don't really explain it, but it just happens and it's sort of like, if you know what that is. 322 00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:05.339 There are all sorts of other weird things that happen like that 1st phone call that everyone's getting on their phone. 323 00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:10.380 Um, that the father of the bride is getting and that rose is getting the... 324 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.299 Yeah, that 1st phone call. 325 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.920 I mean, that doesn't work in any sort of real proper sort of physical sense of time. 326 00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:31.319 It's because time is in some way magical and the 1st phone call is, you know, there's something essential to the 1st phone call that makes it available as a kind of thing that would happen when time is going weird. 327 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:44.220 And, and I also think too, the, the car that appears around the corner from the church, like the other rose appearing, in a sense, it's just sort of plot convenienced, do you know what I mean? 328 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:45.599 It's like, well, we're done with them. 329 00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:52.079 Let's not follow them, or let's not have Pete go looking for the car, so he can throw himself in front of it. 330 00:25:52.140 --> 00:26:01.079 The car appears there for a sort of plot convenience reason, but it also appears there because time is giving Pete the chance to fix it. 331 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:02.039 Do you know what I mean? 332 00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:03.539 It works on a magical level. 333 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.180 And even the idea that old things. 334 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.000 Here, it's old things are... 335 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:17.759 Old things that offer more protection from the Reapers because they've been there longer, like the Reapers are sort of future backwards through time. 336 00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:19.019 Yeah, in a way. 337 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:24.000 So they're more solid because they exist in a longer sort of duration of time. 338 00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.059 And that's just sapphire and steel, isn't it? 339 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:28.980 That's how time works in Sapphire and Stale. 340 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:30.240 Yeah, me too. 341 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:31.920 When are we doing the saffron steel? 342 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:32.819 We're doing it now, darling. 343 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.740 Sorry, I'm signing up for that right now. 344 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:48.720 Let's do it But I love, yeah, I even love the doctor steps in front of everyone because he's older than everything there, but they all go inside a church that to me seems quite old to the doctor, it's not old at all. 345 00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:51.299 He says, you know, the church is not going to last forever because it's not that old. 346 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.400 Yeah, it's not as old as him, is it? 347 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:56.099 Like, there's no way it's as old as him. 348 00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:58.980 A couple 100 years is a drop in the bucket, you know, yeah. 349 00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:06.420 But again, you know, there's that religious idea of the church as a sanctuary of going to the church for safety. 350 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:11.039 It's not just a terribly old tire warehouse that they hide in. 351 00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:15.180 Like it's very definitely a quarry or a quarry. 352 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.960 His quarry's been here since the middle age. 353 00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.259 Apparently, look, I don't remember this at all. 354 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:37.440 At the time, fans nicknamed the Reaper's Flying Killer Time Monkeys. 355 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:54.779 And they would use that as like, you know, like, you know, shorthand for, for when, um, you know, some, something, you know, plot convenience wise happened, which was science fiction, sort of magic and didn't really make much sense. 356 00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:55.799 They just go, oh. 357 00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:57.539 Um, time monkeys. 358 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.059 But I mean, that's a Doctor Who thing. 359 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.099 Like, blink, everyone loves blink. 360 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:04.019 It's lousy with Thai monkeys. 361 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.559 You know, like, but we don't type. that's exactly right. 362 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.240 I guess they're really just there. 363 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.480 So there's something to be scared of and something to hide from something physical to hide from. 364 00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:21.839 I mean, if they weren't there, I suppose there would just be sort of a shimmering wall of time changing the surrounding area or something like that, and it wouldn't be quite as something to be as terrified of. 365 00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:24.420 So I guess they're just there to move the plot along, really. 366 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:25.319 I'm not a huge fan of them. 367 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.900 I mean, it's Doctor Who. 368 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:38.400 And they kind of want there to be monsters and it, you know, builds the world a little bit, and it is nice to have sort of flying CG animals in a way that we haven't really ever had before. 369 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:39.720 Yeah, yeah. 370 00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:40.500 Yeah, yeah. 371 00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.519 I think it holds up a little bit. 372 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:46.680 It was it was like kind of a shock to see all the CG in the 1st season and it was kind of nice, actually. 373 00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:49.319 So, there's a Vaseline on the lens. 374 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:55.740 I keep going on about this, but the Vaseline on the lens in that 1st series of new who is just crazy. 375 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:58.380 It takes a while for them to get over that. 376 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.720 It does have a very definite look, though. 377 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.079 Yeah, like the 1st series of Drag Race. 378 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:09.539 Like, oh, we're not quite sure how this is going to come across. 379 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.279 Craig rubs the vessel on the lane. 380 00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:16.079 But it kind of works for this story because it's set in the past that kind of work. 381 00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:22.440 And apparently I don't remember this either, but apparently the original DVD release, they put a whitewash. 382 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:26.940 On the episode, so it was even more pale and pasty and washed out. 383 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:43.619 I kind of think it works because it is said in 1987, but it's eventually said in a sort of magic alternative 1987 that's called in a sort of weird time eddy and subject to these sort of strange time magical monkey forces. 384 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.539 And so I think that level of like unreality really works. 385 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:52.619 The monsters even remind me of this other, something else. 386 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.220 I don't know if you guys ever saw the crap, late 90s American adaptation. 387 00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.960 It's like a TV, TV miniseries movie of the Stephen King story at the Langoliers. 388 00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:08.700 It's about like Banky from Perfect Strangers and some other fools are on a plane that somehow doesn't go through to tomorrow. 389 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:22.200 They got caught in some storm and they get stuck in yesterday, which is a great idea, but the thing they're supposed to be scared of is that there are these sort of similar to the reapers, these sort of crap looking CG monsters that fly around everywhere and eat up, you know, and eat up and destroy yesterday so that it's gone. 390 00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:24.960 I actually think I remember the Langolias. 391 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.900 Are they sort of, have they got lots and lots of tea? 392 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:29.400 Yeah, they're sort of like balls. 393 00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:33.420 There's sort of giant chicken nuggets that have a sort of three-way mouthful of teeth. 394 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:36.000 Yeah, do they revolve like revolving teeth? 395 00:30:36.059 --> 00:30:40.680 Yeah, they spin and they sort of, they sort of just fly through everything and just eat sort of tubes through everything. 396 00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:42.779 This story always reminds me of that. 397 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:45.000 It's much better than a Langol is because I thought it was a bit crap. 398 00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:51.599 But it was just around that time in the late 90s when they were adapting all these Stephen King books into miniseries like the stand and it's kind of a similar story. 399 00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:03.900 One of the things I love in this story is that they immediately, almost immediately take away the TARDIS, which is, you know, it's a safe place that you always can go back to. 400 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:08.519 And in Classic Hoo, it was something that the companion would always say, can we please just go back to the TARDIS? 401 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.539 And the doctor would say no. 402 00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.819 But in this story, the doctor goes back to the TARDIS. 403 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.960 And I love that bit where he opens up and it's just a regular police box. 404 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.940 Or it's just an empty, empty box. 405 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.859 And yeah, even the sanctuary has been taken away. 406 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:23.099 It's some, like, uh, wheel in space? 407 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.539 No, is it women's space? 408 00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:29.460 Someone takes the time, blah, blah, blah, out of it and it's just an empty police box. 409 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:30.420 Oh, no, no, no. 410 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.160 No, we do it to the meddling monkey. 411 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:38.700 But it is something that we sort of have seen before, but we've obviously never seen it in the new series and it creates a new thing for the TARDIS to do. 412 00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.160 And it is more time magic, you know. 413 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:44.220 And it's great how it's just the outside doors inside. 414 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:45.900 Yeah, it's not a white box. 415 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.779 It's like it's folded in on itself. 416 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:50.819 Originally it's scripted. 417 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:56.400 The police box prop was supposed to, like, disintegrate around him. 418 00:31:56.460 --> 00:32:00.180 It was supposed to fall apart around him, like he'd just become paper or something. 419 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.519 All the panels fall out like a big couple books. 420 00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:06.599 Yeah, they decided not to do that for budgetry and safety reasons. 421 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:26.160 There is a scene, isn't there, where there's a sort of giant fake out because you do think that the doctor is going to throw the lever and send Sutec back in time by doing some sort of technological, you know, by doing some sort of techno battle solution to the problem. 422 00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.799 And it very much looks like it's going to work. 423 00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:35.160 It's just perhaps a little bit too early in the episode for us to completely fall for it. 424 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:40.200 But then it sort of fails horribly and ups the antique. 425 00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:40.920 Well, he's killed. 426 00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:43.740 You know, the doctor's, he's, he's gone. 427 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:51.839 Well, I, because I love the idea in, I mean, in Doctor Who, it's so rare that he swoops in with the TARDIS and everyone gets into the TARDIS and he saves them at the end. 428 00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:54.900 That, I mean, that happens only a handful of times if I remember right. 429 00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:57.000 So, yeah. 430 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.519 And so, so, so adventure's over though. 431 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:04.619 So as soon as he says, you know, we'll get the TARDIS, we'll get you all in, we'll get out of here and we'll fix it. 432 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:06.900 As soon as he says that, I don't quite believe it. 433 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:11.400 And I do like that they take that option away again a 2nd time, you can't get into the TARDIS. 434 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.660 The TARDIS doesn't fix everything. 435 00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:15.119 And I, because that's just, you know, too easy to happen. 436 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.519 And like, so I like it when riders remove that from the equation. 437 00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:18.660 He does it twice in this. 438 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:22.980 It's great that it just sort of disappears in all that's left of the doctor and the TARDIS. 439 00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:23.940 Because he's dead. 440 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.779 He's been great. 441 00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:27.420 You don't quite believe it, but he's totally gone. 442 00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.279 And she picks up the key and she's like, I'm on my own. 443 00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:31.619 Well, they make up for that later in this series. 444 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.920 And and the whole whole new series as well. 445 00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.440 It's like, oh, quick, get them out, get them out. 446 00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:41.460 Like, it's constantly using an escape, Bruce, the new series much more than it was in the classic. 447 00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.119 Yeah. 448 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:46.200 I like it when they take it out And then at the end, the doctor's gone, and so Rose has got to figure it out. 449 00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:51.839 Not only Rose, but Pete's got to figure out that he's dead and he's got to fix it by going out there. 450 00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:54.180 So at the end, he, without even the doctor there to help them. 451 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.160 He's the one who sort of saves the whole thing. 452 00:33:56.220 --> 00:34:07.799 And then I just love our, um, I think when he's hit by the car, Rose is standing in the church door watching and he and the doctor comes out from behind her, like, just like, like, it's such a great... 453 00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:09.599 But he just appears, doesn't he? 454 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.880 Like, there's no sort of magic flash or anything like that. 455 00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:14.579 It's just fixed now and the doctor's back. 456 00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:24.539 And there is that thing where the doctor is standing in for pay, you know, for Rose's absent father. 457 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:46.619 And so, you know, Pete not only realises that he has to die to fix this situation, but he actually realises that the doctor knew that all along and that the big complicated plan with the TARDIS was just his way of saving Pete, making sure that Pete didn't have to go through that and that Rose didn't have to have a childhood without a father. 458 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:53.219 You know, he does all that stupid humans, you know, stupid apes out for what they can get. thing. 459 00:34:53.280 --> 00:35:00.539 But he really, really shows so much respect for Rose's feelings about the loss of her father. 460 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.539 You know, before when we were talking about him giving Rose a 2nd chance. 461 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:13.260 Like anyone who's watched any Doctor Who at all would have to think that he's gonna say, no, are you kidding? 462 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.000 You know, like, we're already here. 463 00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:20.760 There's the 53rd law of time, which expressly forbids doing this. blah, blah, blah. 464 00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:24.840 And he says, yeah, all right, you know, because it's important. 465 00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:26.880 The 53rd law thing. 466 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.579 That's what happens in fan fiction when you let fans write, Doctor Who. 467 00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:36.719 But if you let, you know, when you've got to write a, Yeah, I just love how he's like, yeah, no, we'll just we'll try one more time, but this is the only time you can't do it again. 468 00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.800 Yeah, yeah. 469 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:42.119 And that is a proper rule. you know, like, you know, there's a proper rule and a reason for that. 470 00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:49.619 But he does do something risky because he recognises that it's important for Rose to do this. 471 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:55.019 It's interesting that he's standing here for Rose's father throughout this series. 472 00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:58.139 And then, yeah, he regenerates him. 473 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.539 That's a kind of creepy kind of. 474 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.400 That's so true. 475 00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:03.119 I never thought of that. 476 00:36:03.179 --> 00:36:05.340 Well, we all marry our fathers. 477 00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:09.480 It was from from daddy to love interest. 478 00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:11.400 It is a bit creepy, very creepy. 479 00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.360 I really like the custom in this. 480 00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:28.860 I like, I do like at the start when I'm, they're in the flat and he's sort of kind of, he's got his arms folded. he's given her the silent treatment. 481 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:33.539 He's kind of insinuating that, uh, is this why he came along with me in the 1st place all those episodes ago? 482 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.960 Was this just your plan all along just to like sneak out and save your dad? 483 00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.960 Space, like, it travels in space. 484 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:40.559 I said. 485 00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:42.539 And then I said, it travels in time. 486 00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:44.039 And then you were interested. 487 00:36:44.820 --> 00:36:45.659 Um, yeah. 488 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:48.780 I think it's very clear that it wasn't premeditated, was it? 489 00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:51.000 It's just that she couldn't bear to watch it a 2nd time. 490 00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:58.980 Well, not as recent, both Russell and Paul, I think, have said on a number of occasions. 491 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:00.599 We left that ambiguous. 492 00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:04.800 We actually never decided whether she had gone. 493 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.300 Oh, I can save dad. 494 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:15.000 Um, But Billy Piper has said, no, she always saw it as, like, it was, it was just spur at the moment. 495 00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:17.820 She's overcome with, Oh gosh, I could save my father. 496 00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:21.059 So that, I mean, like, that's how she was playing it. 497 00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.699 Well, the way the way it plays out on screen is like that. 498 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.860 And when she says, you know, it wasn't my, that wasn't my intention. 499 00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:27.179 I didn't know, just kind of did it. 500 00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:30.599 I mean, she's got, you know, you don't, the characters can't really lie to you. 501 00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:31.199 You know what I mean? 502 00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:32.400 unless it comes out again later. 503 00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:34.739 I like that fight a lot. 504 00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:40.559 Like, it's kind of cute that Pete just assumes that it's a, you know, boyfriend trouble and stuff like that. 505 00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:53.579 But, but he storms off and you, like, you know the format of the show and you know that, you know, it's not going to ditch the female lead midway through. an episode, probably, although more of that later in the season. 506 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:58.260 Um, But, um, it's a real proper fight. 507 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.699 He's really properly angry, and she's so horrible to him because. 508 00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:10.920 He's one weakness is that he's lost everyone that he ever knew his family, his home, his planet. 509 00:38:10.980 --> 00:38:13.139 And she just goes, you'll be back. 510 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:14.639 I know how lonely you are. 511 00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:16.139 I know how sad you are. 512 00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:18.420 It's so brutal. 513 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.679 She's so horrible to him. 514 00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:26.940 And when they do meet one another again and it's they do it just very briefly before some kind of crisis happens. 515 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.139 It's all okay. 516 00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:38.639 And I like when a show will rely on just the performance of the act is to sell sort of forgiveness without having to kind of rub our nose in it. 517 00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:41.460 Yeah, like you say, they're just sort of touching it really briefly. 518 00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:43.500 You know, he says, you know, I wouldn't really have left you. 519 00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:44.280 She says, oh, no. 520 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:45.780 I just like, that's great. 521 00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:46.980 A little shorthand. 522 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.199 And then he just asked her to say sorry. 523 00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:59.579 It's kind of weird, but it's a bit weird, but I do like how Eccleston's really good at being sort of Stern and serious and a bit worried. 524 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:04.800 And then when he just turns that big smile on, you know, everything's going to be all right. when he turns that smile on, it's huge. 525 00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:06.420 Like it's great. really good at it. 526 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:13.320 He does it again in that moment when he's talking to the two, the bride and the groom, you know, when they come up to him and I love this moment. 527 00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:15.599 Some people think it's a bit cheesy, but I love it. 528 00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:19.380 Like he come up to her and say, you know, are we going to be okay? 529 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:20.039 Are you going to save us? 530 00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:24.179 I know we're not important and I just love that bit. this one line where he says, who says you're not important? 531 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:29.820 And that, to me, I think when I saw that the 1st time, that might, I mean, I did enjoy the episodes before that. 532 00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:35.820 I really loved some of the episodes before this, but that's like, that was the 1st time when I was like, wow, this is Doctor Who. they're really getting this right. 533 00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.780 That little speech she says about, you know, street corner 2 AM. that's important. 534 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.440 You guys are important. 535 00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:53.940 It's a little bit like when Sandra says that, take a drink. that Bob Holmes is the is the writer who discovers that the doctor's enemy is bureaucracy, right? 536 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.860 And that is people who are hide bound. 537 00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.460 I think Cornell is the person, and I could be wrong. 538 00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:09.300 They may be counterexamples to this, but I think Cornell is the person that puts the ordinary person at the centre of the world that says that everyone is important. 539 00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:17.219 And that the purpose of life, the things that are good, that are worthwhile. 540 00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:23.280 In a sense, the thing that the doctor gives up is street corner, 3 o'clock in the morning. 541 00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:28.139 And even when he talks about Pete, you know, he's an ordinary person. 542 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:38.460 It's kind of a much less, um, overt version of the, um, small, beautiful thing speech from earth shock. 543 00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:39.599 Much less crap. 544 00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:41.639 Yeah, so I was trying to avoid saying that. 545 00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.320 I love that earth shock. 546 00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:44.460 I know it's... 547 00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:45.840 It means a lot to me, that one. 548 00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:57.659 I mean, that's probably, well, that's, I mean, you get moments of charm with her, but like that's probably the 1st time you get that sort of, you know, this is what life should... 549 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:06.599 Yeah, look, I think I think the problem with that is that it gets, uh, it, that the doctor loses that argument because the cyber leader, just so it's Tegan and he just... 550 00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:08.699 That's what we said in our Earthstock episode. 551 00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:19.679 I know if you remember, but I've always felt, ever since I saw it as a kid, that he loses that argument against the Saberman because he's got no answer for when they, you know, when they say where they're going to kill his companion and then emotions are a weakness. 552 00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:21.300 And I've always found that to be deeply bleak. 553 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.059 Yeah, yeah, it's very say-wardian, I think. 554 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.159 Well, you know, like, I think there was sort of a debating point. 555 00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:33.659 But here it's something that I think the story is 100% behind. 556 00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:44.340 The show lands on the idea that ordinary people are important and it really has sort of failed to make that point a lot of times in the past. 557 00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:47.639 And it's a point that will be made again. 558 00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:59.219 You know, Moffatt adopts it, um, in a Christmas carol, where Sardic says that, uh, you know, this young woman in the freezer is is not important and the doctor goes, wow, that's strange. 559 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:01.260 I've never met anyone who wasn't involved before. 560 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:06.239 And then and then rewrites his life to make her make her a love interest. 561 00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:14.579 And here it's, I mean, they're important because, I mean, not only, yeah, because this sort of doctor sees ordinary people as important, but they've got a story. 562 00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:17.639 You know, immediately they, he says, you know, where'd you meet? 563 00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:17.940 you? 564 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:18.420 Watch your story? 565 00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:20.039 they tell them about 2 AM on the street corner. 566 00:42:20.099 --> 00:42:23.639 And, you know, you warm to them immediately because they're sort of looking at each other and they're remembering. 567 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.340 And as soon as they get a story, They're important. 568 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:30.420 And, you know, that's sort of the point, you know, even though people are ordinary, they've all got a story to tell. 569 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.000 Like, they've all got it, they've brought them to that point. 570 00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:35.639 There's something beautiful in their interaction too. 571 00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:36.420 Do you know what I mean? 572 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:46.380 When the groom mentions his father and then remembers that his father's just been eaten and the bride comforts him just very gently and then they go on talking. 573 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.300 And of course, the bride's pregnant. 574 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:55.440 And so they've got a future ahead of them that we're constantly just visually reminded of. 575 00:42:55.500 --> 00:43:01.139 You know, they're important because they have a future and they're going to affect the future. 576 00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:07.380 And again, there's just something, the scale, the human scale of that, I think, is spectacular grade. 577 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:13.980 I've got such a soft spot for them because their wedding looks exactly like so many 80s weddings I went to in my family as a kid in England. 578 00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:18.840 Right down to the gray suits and like, do you notice the, I think the groom has got like an earring, like a little stud? 579 00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:20.460 I love that little touch. 580 00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:23.460 Someone in, someone in production was like, let's give him a little lyrics. 581 00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:24.539 It's great. 582 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.559 Right down to the, yeah, right down to the all the gray suits and the pregnant bride. 583 00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:30.480 It's right straight flashback from me. 584 00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:10.019 Wealthy listener, we've dispelled all those pesky coronivores and substantially improved the timeline, so it's time to head back to the 1940s to emotionally scar a whole new generation of children. 585 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:12.599 We'll see you next week for the empty child. 586 00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:21.780 In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 587 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.820 Where can people find you, Dan? 588 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:27.960 Oh, you can follow Noodahoo on Twitter at Noodahoo podcast. 589 00:44:28.019 --> 00:44:34.739 We're on, we are on Facebook in a very limited way, where you can get our episodes at newtohoo.com or wherever you get your podcasts. 590 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:36.539 Over on Bondfinger. 591 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:40.800 Our flight through the entirety of the James Bond film series is reaching its ultimate termination. 592 00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:48.059 You can find our commentaries at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at bondfingercast on Twitter. 593 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:55.739 Until next time, may the next wedding gift you buy not end up being an ominous symbol of your own ineluctable mortality. 594 00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.179 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 595 00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:58.260 Good night. 596 00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:58.980 Good night. 597 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:08.940 That was Flight to Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, James Selwood, and Daniel from New to Who. 598 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.719 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Alberg. 599 00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:19.019 This episode, Moisten Up, was recorded on the 29th of July 2018 and released on the 14th of October. 600 00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:35.039 Fans of flights to Entirety will also enjoy Jody InterTara, a weekly Doctor Who flashcast, where we briefly discuss each new episode of Series 11 after it airs, available now at Jodyinterterra.com, and soon on Apple Podcasts. 601 00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:36.900 So what do you think? 602 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.860 It feels good so far. 603 00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:43.260 Yeah, yeah, I think we're doing good. 604 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:56.880 I mean, I'd be happy to, unless, you know, if there's, um, I don't like, I, I, honestly, like I, I don't feel like I've left anything out, but I was, I'm trying to think of, I'm trying to think of some more stuff. 605 00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:59.760 Well, everything I've written I've already talked about. 606 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:01.260 Well, I think we're okay. 607 00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.860 Do you know what I mean? 608 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:03.900 I think that, yeah, I think that we're okay. 609 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:08.820 I think that's the only thing I forgot to say is my favourite... 610 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:17.579 I think my favourite part about Rose, like we said before, like how you sort of, um, how am I going to go about this because it's not, you're not disappointed by your parents. 611 00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:26.820 The fight, one of the, my favourite things about Rose, like I said before, you sort of learn that your parents are people before they were parents and that they are still people before their parents. 612 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:35.760 One of my favourite things about Rose before she even meets her dad. is that I think they go somewhere, I think it's before he's on the, they're on the street corner. 613 00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:36.900 They go somewhere and see him talk. 614 00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:39.900 And the 1st thing she says is, I thought he'd be taller. 615 00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:43.019 It's the wedding, isn't it? 616 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:43.860 They go to the wedding. 617 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:45.179 Is that? 618 00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:46.920 Yeah, they're standing. 619 00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:48.300 I think, yeah, I think you're right, Nathan. 620 00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:49.500 They're standing at the back of the wedding. 621 00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:53.039 Oh, I thought he, I thought he was taller. 622 00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:54.840 I love it. 623 00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:56.159 He gets Jackie's name wrong. 624 00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:58.199 He can't remember Jackie. their wedding. 625 00:46:58.260 --> 00:46:58.980 Oh, that's right. 626 00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:01.800 That happened at the rehearsal for my wedding. 627 00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:04.679 Yeah, yeah, no, but it happened at Charles and Dyer's wedding. 628 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.440 She says it's good enough for Lady Day. 629 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:10.440 Can we cut that out? 630 00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:11.460 Jason, kill me. 631 00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:20.639 But I love that the 1st thing is, you know, the 1st thing in this monumental figure that she's been built up by her mother for her life and she imagines that he'd be taller. 632 00:47:20.699 --> 00:47:22.440 It's a full that stuff. so great. 633 00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:26.219 And it's like, it's for the best introduction to him because it's like, you know, he's nervous. 634 00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.320 He's forgotten his wife's full name. 635 00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:35.039 Well, she does have a long full name and then, you know, it's sort of taken, like from there that he's a bit of a bit useless. 636 00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:36.119 I just love that.