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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:34:30

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast brought to you by Vitex Health

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Drinks.

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That's VITEX and use the offer code Useless at checkout.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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And I'm Daniel.

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It's 1987, Margaret Thatcher's prime minister again, and it looks

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like the driver of that oncoming car isn't paying close attention

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to the road.

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Doctor Who finally gets its teeth into some real family drama.

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It's Father's Day.

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Oh, man, I'm so excited to do this one.

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I've always loved this story, and I'm so thrilled to be on.

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Thanks for having me.

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Oh, no problem at all.

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Thank you for agreeing to join us.

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So, what is it about this story that puts it up among your

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favourites?

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Well, it's a few different things.

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I am a soccer for, and I don't do it very often in who, and I

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think it's probably a good thing.

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I'm a sucker for sort of things where characters kind of recurse

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upon themselves where they're in, there's 2 people in the same

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time thing and they're not supposed to touch each other.

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I like that stuff.

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I think if you overused it.

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It would be rubbish.

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But I just like the idea of playing with little bits about time

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travel, and I think it's just such a, like a rich vein to mine if

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you're a writer.

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There's so many ways to go with it.

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And I think this one goes, it keeps it, keeps it to a small story

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which is really great.

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It's one of the best things about, um, one of the, the 1st season

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of um, Nuhu in 2005, as most of the stories are quite small, and

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focus on family, and this one's just got a lot of great writing

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and I just love the character of the dad.

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I think he's Sean Dingwall, who plays him, is just so great.

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He holds the whole thing together.

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And there's some, there's a lot of, there's a lot of good

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emotional stuff in here.

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Sometimes it's a bit cheesy, but on the whole, it's wonderful.

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Yeah.

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I have to confess that this is one of the ones that I cry in and

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like I'm fairly stoic.

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You know, I'm fairly well known for my high level of emotional

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control, but, you know, like I cry at supermarket openings and

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school fates and things like that.

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But this is one of... that's right.

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This is one of the 10 or 11 episodes of series one that I cry.

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But perhaps I'm not ashamed to. not ashamed to admit that I'm cold

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and dead inside, as most of my friends know.

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Yeah, I get a quick catch up today just to catch up with it and

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watch it again and I was tearing up a couple of times.

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It's great. powerful.

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Yeah, I think, I think two.

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Like, it's something that we haven't really had the opportunity to

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have in Doctor Who very often, and that is a regular fam that's

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part of the show.

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So we're back, you know, every 3 weeks, we've been back to the

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Tyler family, and we've heard Rose's dad mentioned, we know that

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he's died from the Unquiet Dead, I think.

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We're invested in her.

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We've seen enough of Jackie to have a sort of past version of

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Jackie work, you know, like we know her well enough in the present

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in her relationship.

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Yeah, it's mostly the hair.

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She just works the hair.

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Yeah, we've gotten to nowhere enough that you're safe to go back

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and explore like a past, even angrier version of Jackie and sort

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of know where you are. know where you stand.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think I think you're right.

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I think Sean Dingwell is yet another superb guest star this

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series.

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Another character who is inspired by the doctor to do the right

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thing and kind of solve the puzzle.

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He's great.

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He's just great.

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Partly because he's so ordinary.

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Like he's, you know, he's Rose's dad, he's, and she's been sort of

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raised to think he's amazing.

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And it's one of those great sort of ideas, another thing of great

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writing, like that sort of thing where you, I don't know about

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being disappointed by your parents or, you know, Rose discovers

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that he's not all that she was led to believe he was.

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It's just a great little idea.

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And it also taps into that thing. everyone goes through. you know

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when you sort of get to your teens.

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And it seems like such a silly thing to realise. but when you 1st

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time you sort of realised that your parents were real people

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before you were even around and they, you know, they had a

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relationship and they're real people now.

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And it's such a silly, obvious, selfish thing for a child to

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realise. the 1st time you sort of get that.

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It's a big thing.

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And this is where she gets, she actually gets to go back and see

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it, which, you know, we don't get to do.

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I totally agree with that.

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I mean, this episode just, I'm bawling by about halfway through.

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It's just so beautifully put together.

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I mean, it's almost as if the story has been written as a eulogy

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to her father.

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It starts with that line.

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Um, Peter Allen Tyler, my dad, the most wonderful man of the world

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born 15th September, 1954, and then ends with like his his, um, the

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day he died.

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Like, it's the same line just with the date change.

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Yeah, and the whole episode is like a, it's like a memorial to his

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father, she never knew, and then, I think in fact, the very end of

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the cold open is the photo of Smiling Pete, and then the very end

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of the entire episode is that as well.

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That's the last shot, the same photo.

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Oh, I think they're walking towards the TARDIS, but it's the last

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close-up episode.

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But there's something really beautiful about, I mean, let's just

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go straight to the end.

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We are the ramblingest Doctor Who podcast currently available.

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Rose gets to fix her father's death.

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Do you know what I mean?

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She can't change it.

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She tries to change it.

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She tries.

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Yeah, she tries to stop it happening.

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But Jackie is telling the story at the end, and it's different

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from the story that we hear.

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And it's fixed in 2 ways, and both of them, I think, are

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terrifically humane.

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I mean, the most obvious way is that he doesn't die alone, that

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there's someone there that we now know was his daughter comforting

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him.

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But also, the thing that I like is that in the 1st version, it was

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a hit and run, you know, where someone presumably spent the rest

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of their life feeling guilty about what they've done.

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And, He's tearing up as he's tearing up.

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At the end, he gets forgiven.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like Jackie forgives that guy and says he was just a young kid and

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it wasn't his fault.

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He stayed and waited for the police to come.

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And so he gets forgiven.

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And I just think that's so extraordinarily beautiful.

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And it's what he was saying before is, you know, the small scale

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of the story, that it matters on a level of human interactions and

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things like loss and forgiveness and love.

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You know, what drives this whole story.

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There's hardly any space corridors or guns or, you know, anything

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like that.

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And, you know, like I just think that ending is spectacularly well

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judged.

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I just love, I love how it starts and ends in the same way.

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I think her original intent is just to be the someone there to be

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there so he doesn't die on his own.

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Uh, and um, I think it's still sort of up in the air about whether

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she actually planned to save them or not.

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I don't think she, she did.

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But I mean, at the end, that's what happens.

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She's just there, you know, so he's not alone.

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And also he knows who she is.

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So, you know, it means more to him than if it was just a

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stranger.

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And I just think it's beautiful that the whole, the way it's fixed

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isn't that he gets to live because that would be a little bit

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strange and against the rules of Doctor Who generally.

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But just the fact that he didn't die alone.

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I think that's just so simple and powerful and wonderful.

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I also think it would be a bit sort of science fiction-y and

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magic.

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Like in reality, you don't get to save a dead parent, all that you

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get to do is change the way that you think about what happened.

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You know, one of the reasons that going ahead, that blue suit

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metacrises doctor doesn't quite work is, you know, how do you feel

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when a magic replica of your boyfriend, you know?

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like it's so science fiction-y that it's hard to relate to.

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But here, you know, we could never go back and save Pete.

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We know how TV works.

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We know how Doctor Who works.

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And for it to have any emotional resonance at all, it has to be

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kind of real, I think.

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And like, like he says, he, he, it's not like he didn't think

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about going back and saving his entire race of people on the

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planet he's from.

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If he could he would, but he can't.

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So that's not yet.

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No, no, you wait.

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Flash forward to 2013.

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But, um, but it's you're right. but everyone's got a dad, you

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know?

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and everyone thinks about when their dad's going to die.

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Yeah.

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One of my favourite lines in the entire episode, the that line

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where, where Pete says, I'm your dad is, like, yeah, it's my, it's

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my job for it to be my fault.

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That's actually a quote from Paul Cornell's father.

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Yeah, I read that, so Paul Cornell's dad is, I mean, that Pete's

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sort of loosely and partly based on, on Paul Cornell's own dad

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who's a bit of a dell boy himself.

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I love that.

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Yeah, no, like, that's the story that Paul tells at least, is that

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his father was, you know, very similar to the character that he

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wrote, he, um, had went through dozens of jobs, like, trying to

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like, find something that worked and, including selling health

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drinks, and eventually ended up running a, like, a vetting shop.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, um, it's just, I think maybe that's why this story has so much

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emotional depth to it is that he's writing what he knows.

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I think too, that we kind of have Paul Cornell to thank for

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introducing this sort of emotional depth into Doctor Who, in the

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sense that he did that during the wilderness years, in the new

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adventures.

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You know, he's one of the very 1st people to put a new adventure

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out.

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And it's a very strange story.

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So it's timeworm revelation.

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And, you know, it's a sort of strange mindscape and a sort of

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internal examination of what the doctor is like.

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But it does hinge on ideas of sort of forgiveness and sacrifice

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and that kind of thing in a way that we hadn't really seen that

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much of.

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And I think it's, you know, I think that if you're putting

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together a stable of writers to bring Doctor Who back in 2005, you

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know, you'd be absolutely crazy to not include Paul Cornell for

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that reason.

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Yeah, absolutely crazy not to include book on now when you're

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putting Dr. back together in 2018.

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Oh, well.

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He's very busy.

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I've always felt like the 1st season of New Who has a tiny little

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echo of a feeling of the last couple of seasons of classic coup

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and a little bit of tiny bit of new adventures DNA in it as well

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especially with the Paul Cornell bits.

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And yeah, like focussing on companion stories a little more than

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just straight up doctor or having the doctor in the background

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which is which he kind of is a lot in this one.

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But I feel like all that emotional stuff with the dad really

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carries the whole thing.

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And one of the bits that really gets me and, you know, made me

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moisten up a little bit was when he he's got Rose alone in the

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church and he, you know, he figures out who he is and what's going

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on.

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And he, the 1st question he asks is, am I a good dad?

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in the future.

247
00:11:51.179 --> 00:11:52.980
And that's, that, got me so bad.

248
00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:54.960
That's like one of those things that all parents want to know.

249
00:11:55.019 --> 00:11:57.480
All dads are insecure about whether or not they're good and he

250
00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:00.120
gets to ask his future daughter and find out.

251
00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:03.059
And not only is that so loaded with emotion, but also if she can't

252
00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:06.360
she can't answer the question because, but she can't tell him he's

253
00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.100
dead and that's just such a, I love that moment.

254
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:11.460
In fact, there's a perfect blend of comedy too because it's like

255
00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:12.240
am I bald?

256
00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:18.299
Yeah, you know, like, you know, she he starts asking questions.

257
00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:20.399
It's like, 0 my god, I've realised something terrible.

258
00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:21.240
Am I bald?

259
00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:24.360
It turns out to be, you know, much, much worse than that.

260
00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:30.000
I think what's clever about that scene as well is how smart Pete

261
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:36.419
is because, like, Rose is smarter than Jackie, I think are just

262
00:12:36.419 --> 00:12:40.740
sort of more competent generally than Jackie is, and you kind of

263
00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:43.679
wonder, well, you know, where they should get it from.

264
00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:46.019
And Pete is an ordinary person.

265
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.960
He doesn't know he's in a science fiction program where people can

266
00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.460
travel back in time from the future.

267
00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.779
That's just not a possibility that is open to him to think about.

268
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:59.340
But he pieces it together in a really clever way, and we're

269
00:12:59.340 --> 00:13:02.820
allowed to watch him do that, and he even shows us a little bit of

270
00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:03.539
his working.

271
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:09.000
And so you get this overall feeling that he's a smart, clever

272
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.960
caring man.

273
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:14.940
Whereas Jackie, I think, comes off really badly in this story.

274
00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:17.820
Um, you know, I adore Jackie.

275
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.759
I think she's sort of really lovely, but she's so horrible too

276
00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:24.779
that awful fight that they have outside the church in front of all

277
00:13:24.779 --> 00:13:25.320
their friends.

278
00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:26.700
That's great.

279
00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.799
And that's, I feel like that's the 1st moment that Rose realises

280
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:32.220
that her mom, you know, is kind of an embellishing all those years

281
00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:34.740
telling stories about her dad, you know, telling her how he was

282
00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:36.539
perfect and wonderful and they were really happy and, you know

283
00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:39.059
that's not necessarily the truth and I love that sort of reveal

284
00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:40.019
and you see it on her face.

285
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.519
Yeah, yeah.

286
00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:42.240
Yeah.

287
00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:44.639
She calls out you're not like this or something.

288
00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:45.539
Yeah, yeah.

289
00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:49.500
In fact, those stories, I think, actually do reflect really well

290
00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:52.980
on Jackie and having her just sitting there, you know, not being

291
00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:57.480
big giant performance Jackie, but just being sort of quiet, Jackie

292
00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:58.860
talking to her daughter about her dad.

293
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.980
There's something really sweet about those things.

294
00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:03.360
But funny in the story.

295
00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:07.019
He has actually become the best dad in the world.

296
00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:07.620
Yeah.

297
00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:10.559
I mean, like he's a bit rubbish to start off with, but then he

298
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.360
becomes a hero.

299
00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:16.799
Yeah, he's become the father that her mother always told her he

300
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:16.980
was.

301
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:21.120
Yeah, like, oh, no, say, I'm now getting emotional.

302
00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:21.840
Yeah, yeah.

303
00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:23.820
But it answers the question.

304
00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:24.659
Am I a good dad?

305
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:25.860
And the answer is yes.

306
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:27.179
You know, he does say.

307
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.279
I can't be there to bring you up.

308
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.399
I can't do the picnics or any of those sorts of things, but I can

309
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:32.820
do these.

310
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.659
Yeah, he can't get his life together. can't do simple things like

311
00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:40.379
be on time or, you know, he's generally useless, but, you know

312
00:14:40.379 --> 00:14:41.340
this is the one thing that he can do.

313
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:42.899
He can die to save everyone else.

314
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:44.759
I thought that was really, and I love how he figures.

315
00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.299
Obviously, by then he's figured out who, you know, that Rose is

316
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:48.659
his daughter.

317
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.080
But at the end, the last hit where he figures out that he is dead

318
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:53.820
he's in the future, he's dead and he's not meant to be there.

319
00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:57.059
And then he even figures out that it's the car outside.

320
00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:00.000
And just the scene where he's sort of saying goodbye to them

321
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.700
that's the bit where I really, I was like, I'm just going to stop

322
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:06.360
trying not to cry because it was just so, it's, it's heavy and

323
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:06.720
it's great.

324
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:09.659
And, you know, he gets the chance to say to meet his daughter, uh

325
00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:12.120
and say goodbye to her, which is like not something that most

326
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.639
people who have died before that you ever have grown up get to

327
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:14.759
do.

328
00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.220
And I thought that bit where he said, you know, she says it's not

329
00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:17.460
fair.

330
00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:20.580
And he says, you know, I'll think of all the extra hours I've had

331
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.559
you know, people don't, no one else in the world has had that.

332
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:23.879
And I thought that was wonderful.

333
00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:28.080
The beautiful thing about it is that you're not crying because

334
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:28.860
it's sad.

335
00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:31.980
You're not crying because Rose is losing her father, you're crying

336
00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:36.480
because there's something so incredibly humane and warm about it

337
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:37.080
all.

338
00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:42.960
And like Paul Cornell is a religious man and his wife is an

339
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:43.860
Anglican priest.

340
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:47.820
And you know, he puts at the centre of this story.

341
00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:52.740
A story of self-sacrifice, you know, a man who saves the world by

342
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:53.759
laying down his life.

343
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:55.139
In front of a church.

344
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

345
00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:58.259
And, well, yeah.

346
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.139
And you know, like the, he had that big church character in

347
00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:02.399
timeworm revelation as well.

348
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:07.379
It's such a resonant story because it's something that is, you

349
00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:11.159
know, embedded so deep in our culture and that we've heard told so

350
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:11.879
many times.

351
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.879
And I think it's really well told here.

352
00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:23.159
It's beautiful. quite different.

353
00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:27.779
No, um, Simon Pegg is originally of, well, of Pete Taylor.

354
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:29.039
What?

355
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:30.240
Yeah.

356
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.159
Perfect.

357
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:38.940
Um, but he couldn't do the dates. and so, uh, not sure on doing

358
00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:44.700
well instead, would gave him the role of the editor in one game.

359
00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.539
Would he have put on the accent to be Pete Tyler?

360
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:49.259
I don't know.

361
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.000
Would he have been would that have been any good?

362
00:16:51.059 --> 00:16:53.759
What do you have just have been Simon Pegg?

363
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:54.360
You know what I mean?

364
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:57.720
Where he always kind of, I think I prefer what we got.

365
00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:01.440
Yeah, well, he's very, the guy, well, Sean Dingwell, kind of

366
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.299
played it as almost as a dell boy.

367
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.940
Like, he's kind of wearing the shabby suit and he's got the same

368
00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:07.440
sort of East London accent.

369
00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:08.579
And the hair.

370
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:13.019
Yeah, that looks like he's going to go bald any minute. like just

371
00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:13.440
in that second.

372
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:14.460
Love that.

373
00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.480
And yeah, it's great. he had by the next the next series.

374
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:19.980
Oh, well, he was older then, right?

375
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:24.660
So, I mean, there are some actors that take over a role.

376
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:26.519
You can't see them as anything but themselves.

377
00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:29.880
And sometimes that works in sort of small parts and things like

378
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.819
Tams and Greg last week as the nurse in the long game.

379
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:37.740
But, uh, I think that Simon Pegg would have been completely wrong

380
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:39.420
uh, for Pete.

381
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:40.440
Oh, totally agree.

382
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:44.819
And I don't know that he does warmth quite so well as Sean Dingle

383
00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:45.059
does.

384
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.460
Sean Dingwell is just, he just plays it.

385
00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:50.279
He plays it so kind of, he exudes uselessness.

386
00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:52.559
But at the same time, he does.

387
00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:53.339
I don't know how he does it.

388
00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:56.819
Maybe it's just the 80s, the suit and the with the sleeves pulled

389
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.859
up, it just makes people look like idiots to me.

390
00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:02.579
But, um, he plays are generally sort of flappy and useless, but

391
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.400
he's got that warmth and, you know, he's got self-doubt and he's

392
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.940
he's really trying. this character, you know, to make it make it

393
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:10.500
happen and get their lives together.

394
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.980
And by the end of it, one of the reasons it's so heavy to watch

395
00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:16.799
him walk out there and it means so much for that goodbye scene is

396
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.859
that you've been made to like him, despite his obvious faults and

397
00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:20.220
flaws.

398
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:21.299
He's only human.

399
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:22.980
But, you know, he loves his family.

400
00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:31.380
I did read recently that they were planning to make this one like

401
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:34.559
a sort of a low budget story just about character and about family

402
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.700
but so the monsters weren't even going to be in it to start with

403
00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:40.019
but they were sort of...

404
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.000
Well, they were grim Reaper characters.

405
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:43.440
Are they called Reapers?

406
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:47.099
Well, they're not referred to as reapers on screen, but they do

407
00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:50.099
have like a big sort of scythe thing.

408
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.160
You can see it more clearly in some of the photos, but the tail

409
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.299
has a big scythe on it.

410
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.180
But the idea was that they would be guys in costumes.

411
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.700
Yeah, they're going to be like death figures.

412
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:00.180
Right.

413
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:01.980
Actual Grim Reapers.

414
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.819
Yeah, basically, sort of weird, ethereal, grimly for characters.

415
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:11.460
But I believe. they were too similar to the adherence of the

416
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:12.539
repeated meme.

417
00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:16.920
Any of the world and also they went, no, we want we want more

418
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:17.400
monsters.

419
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.980
And yeah, so the budget blew out.

420
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:20.759
Yeah, that's what I read.

421
00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:22.319
They blew the budget out after they suggested.

422
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:24.779
I think it was even Cornell that suggested the monsters and then

423
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:27.599
they just had to, they were completely, obviously completely CG.

424
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.319
I guess they just wanted a monster, some monster antagonists.

425
00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:36.299
He suggested the rapers, and I think then Jane Tranter suggested

426
00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:42.359
that, or maybe let's make it more sort of action in more science

427
00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:47.400
fiction, and and so they, they, um, turn them into these sort of

428
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:53.039
weird half shark, half fat, sort of dragon things, I think.

429
00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:54.599
There was a trailer.

430
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:58.259
I don't know if you remember this at the time that, um, that

431
00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:02.339
showed, it did show a few CG monsters, including the sort of

432
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:06.480
running Civine from Aliens of London in their sort of CG form and

433
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:08.160
and the reapers.

434
00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:13.079
And I think that because there hadn't been CG and Doctor Who

435
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.140
before, they clearly wanted to foreground this sort of new

436
00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:17.579
technology that they were using.

437
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.319
And I think they do a really good job.

438
00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:24.720
I like, um, There's one scene where the vicar gets killed and one

439
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:28.859
of them sort of sweeps down to attack the vicar, and then it sort

440
00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:33.599
of decorously puts its wing in the way between the vicar that it's

441
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.140
eating and the camera just to maintain our kind of PG.

442
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.839
Well, like when it when it goes after the dad.

443
00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:43.019
You really hear like, you know, thwacking sounds of like flesh

444
00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:46.140
being penetrated. but there's there's no, there's no blood flying

445
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:47.759
but you can tell that that guy is in pieces.

446
00:20:47.819 --> 00:20:52.140
He's totally eaten See, the sound effect there is a vulture.

447
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:53.099
Okay.

448
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.799
Yeah, a very coded vulture, probably.

449
00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:00.000
I do like the effect they leave behind where you start to realise

450
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.980
that it's not just happening at the church that it's happening all

451
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:05.339
over the area, like I knew you end up with young Mickey at the

452
00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:08.039
playground, and everyone just sort of disappears around him in

453
00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:11.099
that sort of haunting 80s crappy playground.

454
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.099
I do like that, it's the streets are sort of deserted.

455
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.400
There's something really strange about that scene too, where you

456
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.859
have a whole heap of people, like you've got like a homeless

457
00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:22.140
person drinking a bottle of wine and you've got someone kind of

458
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.099
pruning roses and someone hanging out the laundry and stuff and

459
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:29.579
you know that they're going to die because like why else are we

460
00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:30.359
showing them?

461
00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:31.440
You know what that reminds me of?

462
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:32.759
survival.

463
00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:33.660
Oh, yeah.

464
00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:37.200
Kittlings, like in their point of view and then like, yeah

465
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:38.099
scream.

466
00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:39.960
Smash milk bottle. true.

467
00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:43.319
I mean, those are the only 3 things that British people really do

468
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:43.799
outside.

469
00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:45.059
Yeah, you know, hang.

470
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:46.019
Yeah, that's it.

471
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.720
Otherwise it's indoors and talking about tennis and stuff.

472
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:54.000
But, um, uh, despite what we identified as a small scale, there is

473
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.079
also kind of a massive scale too, because even though it is a sort

474
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.559
of small emotional story in the confines of a church, it is about

475
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.319
the destruction of the world being at stake.

476
00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:09.299
But it's in a really kind of weird way because the way that time

477
00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:10.200
is presented.

478
00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:13.319
I mean, the way that time is presented in Doctor Who, it's never

479
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:14.819
like a physicist would present it.

480
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:19.440
But here time is sort of weird and mythical and has these sort of

481
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:20.519
strange powers.

482
00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:22.380
It's odd and magical.

483
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.160
In the same way that we criticise the uh, telling movie.

484
00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:28.019
It's magic dust.

485
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.720
Yeah, I just think that people who criticise Doctor Who for having

486
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.980
magic in it are silly.

487
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.359
I mean, what have they been watching?

488
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:39.539
Because I think the reason that we get to see Rose try to go and

489
00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:45.480
help her father and then fail is to kind of up the emotional

490
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:46.200
tension.

491
00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:50.220
Like it's a really scary thing and it reminds you how confronting

492
00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:51.000
that would be.

493
00:22:51.059 --> 00:22:51.420
Yeah, yeah.

494
00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.519
Like it really, it kind of ups the stakes.

495
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:57.119
But then it also offers this sort of science fiction hand wavy

496
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.900
explanation for why, um, it's so disastrous.

497
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.000
You know, there's 2 of them present in the same place.

498
00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:06.059
The doctor's aware that he's sort of breaking the rules, but he's

499
00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:08.099
he's an answerable to anyone these days.

500
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.559
There's Mary a mention of the Blunovic limitation.

501
00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:14.400
Well, I'm really, I'm really happy they don't mention the awfully

502
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.039
named stupid, stupid Blenovic limitation effect.

503
00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:19.079
I hate that. whenever people bring that up, I just go to sleep.

504
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:20.400
I do really...

505
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.900
It's in it.

506
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:25.559
It's not mentioned by name, but Rose gets told not to touch baby

507
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:26.099
Rose.

508
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.599
Yeah, like the concepts there.

509
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:31.980
I just really like how when there's the, they shoot the scene the

510
00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:34.680
same way the 2nd time, you know, he says, she says, can I have

511
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:35.160
another go?

512
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:38.759
And he says, oh, I guess, all right. yeah they they but they're

513
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.440
shot the same. you know, it comes around, the camera comes around

514
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.140
the corner and you see them standing on the edge of that, um, awful

515
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:43.920
looking housing estate.

516
00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:47.220
By the way, it's suppressing how easily you can make a modern kind

517
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:50.640
of housing estate area in any British city look like the 80s with

518
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:51.539
very minimal effort.

519
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.640
Like I think they just took down some satellite dishes.

520
00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.579
I think they put some rave posters up and that was really

521
00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:57.059
basically it.

522
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.640
Well, they looked like they were in the 80s and the 60s.

523
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.039
Well, no, that's I mean, because I grew up in Britain in the 80s

524
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.380
and it is all concrete bollards and knackered playgrounds and it

525
00:24:04.380 --> 00:24:07.019
does feel like it does feel like a mishmash of different decades.

526
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:10.079
Like that's one of the reasons why remembrance of the Daleks was

527
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.599
so easy to do just because so many parts of Shoreditch look like

528
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:12.960
that time.

529
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.400
They've barely changed.

530
00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:17.940
But I like how they sort of do the same shot coming around the

531
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.799
corner and they're still standing the same place, but then you

532
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.019
realise that you're actually with another Dr. and Rose who are

533
00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:24.059
looking around the corner of that building at them.

534
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.940
And he, you know, they don't go on They don't waffle on about time

535
00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:29.940
and how you shouldn't blower into yourself and how you shouldn't

536
00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.279
blah, blah, blah, but he he's very serious and he says, this is

537
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.380
the last chance you have to do this because we can't come back

538
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:36.059
again because it's too weird.

539
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:37.200
Too many freaky things will happen.

540
00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:37.980
I just like that.

541
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.220
And then once she runs out there and saves him, the older version

542
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:44.279
of Rose and the Doctor disappear and they don't explain it at

543
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:44.460
all.

544
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:45.420
They don't tell you why.

545
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:46.440
And I quite like that.

546
00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:49.559
Obviously, it's because that timeline's sort of been short

547
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.500
circuited and they never go to do what they did because they just

548
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:55.920
saw future versions of themselves, save Pete.

549
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:58.200
I just like that they don't really explain it, but it just happens

550
00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:59.759
and it's sort of like, if you know what that is.

551
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:02.579
There are all sorts of other weird things that happen like that

552
00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:05.339
1st phone call that everyone's getting on their phone.

553
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.819
Um, that the father of the bride is getting and that rose is

554
00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:10.380
getting the...

555
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.299
Yeah, that 1st phone call.

556
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:15.839
I mean, that doesn't work in any sort of real proper sort of

557
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:16.920
physical sense of time.

558
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:22.140
It's because time is in some way magical and the 1st phone call is

559
00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:25.980
you know, there's something essential to the 1st phone call that

560
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:30.180
makes it available as a kind of thing that would happen when time

561
00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:31.319
is going weird.

562
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:37.619
And, and I also think too, the, the car that appears around the

563
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:41.819
corner from the church, like the other rose appearing, in a sense

564
00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.220
it's just sort of plot convenienced, do you know what I mean?

565
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:45.599
It's like, well, we're done with them.

566
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:49.920
Let's not follow them, or let's not have Pete go looking for the

567
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.079
car, so he can throw himself in front of it.

568
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:55.680
The car appears there for a sort of plot convenience reason, but

569
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.539
it also appears there because time is giving Pete the chance to

570
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:01.079
fix it.

571
00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:02.039
Do you know what I mean?

572
00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:03.539
It works on a magical level.

573
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.180
And even the idea that old things.

574
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.000
Here, it's old things are...

575
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:13.079
Old things that offer more protection from the Reapers because

576
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:16.559
they've been there longer, like the Reapers are sort of future

577
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:17.759
backwards through time.

578
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:19.019
Yeah, in a way.

579
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.740
So they're more solid because they exist in a longer sort of

580
00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:24.000
duration of time.

581
00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.059
And that's just sapphire and steel, isn't it?

582
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:28.980
That's how time works in Sapphire and Stale.

583
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:30.240
Yeah, me too.

584
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:31.920
When are we doing the saffron steel?

585
00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:32.819
We're doing it now, darling.

586
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.740
Sorry, I'm signing up for that right now.

587
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:42.240
Let's do it But I love, yeah, I even love the doctor steps in

588
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.400
front of everyone because he's older than everything there, but

589
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.759
they all go inside a church that to me seems quite old to the

590
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:48.720
doctor, it's not old at all.

591
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:50.700
He says, you know, the church is not going to last forever because

592
00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:51.299
it's not that old.

593
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.400
Yeah, it's not as old as him, is it?

594
00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:56.099
Like, there's no way it's as old as him.

595
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:58.980
A couple 100 years is a drop in the bucket, you know, yeah.

596
00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:03.599
But again, you know, there's that religious idea of the church as

597
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.420
a sanctuary of going to the church for safety.

598
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:11.039
It's not just a terribly old tire warehouse that they hide in.

599
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:15.180
Like it's very definitely a quarry or a quarry.

600
00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.960
His quarry's been here since the middle age.

601
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.259
Apparently, look, I don't remember this at all.

602
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:36.839
At the time, fans nicknamed the Reaper's Flying Killer Time

603
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:37.440
Monkeys.

604
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:43.440
And they would use that as like, you know, like, you know

605
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:48.539
shorthand for, for when, um, you know, some, something, you know

606
00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:53.039
plot convenience wise happened, which was science fiction, sort of

607
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:54.779
magic and didn't really make much sense.

608
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:55.799
They just go, oh.

609
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:57.539
Um, time monkeys.

610
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.059
But I mean, that's a Doctor Who thing.

611
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.099
Like, blink, everyone loves blink.

612
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:04.019
It's lousy with Thai monkeys.

613
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.559
You know, like, but we don't type. that's exactly right.

614
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.240
I guess they're really just there.

615
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.400
So there's something to be scared of and something to hide from

616
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:12.480
something physical to hide from.

617
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:15.599
I mean, if they weren't there, I suppose there would just be sort

618
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.720
of a shimmering wall of time changing the surrounding area or

619
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:20.759
something like that, and it wouldn't be quite as something to be

620
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:21.839
as terrified of.

621
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:24.420
So I guess they're just there to move the plot along, really.

622
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:25.319
I'm not a huge fan of them.

623
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.900
I mean, it's Doctor Who.

624
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.740
And they kind of want there to be monsters and it, you know, builds

625
00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:35.640
the world a little bit, and it is nice to have sort of flying CG

626
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:38.400
animals in a way that we haven't really ever had before.

627
00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:39.720
Yeah, yeah.

628
00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

629
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.519
I think it holds up a little bit.

630
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:45.240
It was it was like kind of a shock to see all the CG in the 1st

631
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:46.680
season and it was kind of nice, actually.

632
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:49.319
So, there's a Vaseline on the lens.

633
00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:52.019
I keep going on about this, but the Vaseline on the lens in that

634
00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:55.740
1st series of new who is just crazy.

635
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:58.380
It takes a while for them to get over that.

636
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.720
It does have a very definite look, though.

637
00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.079
Yeah, like the 1st series of Drag Race.

638
00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:09.539
Like, oh, we're not quite sure how this is going to come across.

639
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.279
Craig rubs the vessel on the lane.

640
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:15.000
But it kind of works for this story because it's set in the past

641
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:16.079
that kind of work.

642
00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:20.220
And apparently I don't remember this either, but apparently the

643
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.440
original DVD release, they put a whitewash.

644
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:26.759
On the episode, so it was even more pale and pasty and washed

645
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:26.940
out.

646
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.759
I kind of think it works because it is said in 1987, but it's

647
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.839
eventually said in a sort of magic alternative 1987 that's called

648
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.220
in a sort of weird time eddy and subject to these sort of strange

649
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.619
time magical monkey forces.

650
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.539
And so I think that level of like unreality really works.

651
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:52.619
The monsters even remind me of this other, something else.

652
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.380
I don't know if you guys ever saw the crap, late 90s American

653
00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:56.220
adaptation.

654
00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.119
It's like a TV, TV miniseries movie of the Stephen King story at

655
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:00.960
the Langoliers.

656
00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:06.059
It's about like Banky from Perfect Strangers and some other fools

657
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:08.700
are on a plane that somehow doesn't go through to tomorrow.

658
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:10.559
They got caught in some storm and they get stuck in yesterday

659
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:13.259
which is a great idea, but the thing they're supposed to be scared

660
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:16.079
of is that there are these sort of similar to the reapers, these

661
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.440
sort of crap looking CG monsters that fly around everywhere and

662
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.079
eat up, you know, and eat up and destroy yesterday so that it's

663
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:22.200
gone.

664
00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:24.960
I actually think I remember the Langolias.

665
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.900
Are they sort of, have they got lots and lots of tea?

666
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:29.400
Yeah, they're sort of like balls.

667
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:32.579
There's sort of giant chicken nuggets that have a sort of three

668
00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:33.420
way mouthful of teeth.

669
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:36.000
Yeah, do they revolve like revolving teeth?

670
00:30:36.059 --> 00:30:38.700
Yeah, they spin and they sort of, they sort of just fly through

671
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:40.680
everything and just eat sort of tubes through everything.

672
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:42.779
This story always reminds me of that.

673
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.759
It's much better than a Langol is because I thought it was a bit

674
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:45.000
crap.

675
00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:47.460
But it was just around that time in the late 90s when they were

676
00:30:47.460 --> 00:30:50.160
adapting all these Stephen King books into miniseries like the

677
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.599
stand and it's kind of a similar story.

678
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:58.980
One of the things I love in this story is that they immediately

679
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:02.279
almost immediately take away the TARDIS, which is, you know, it's

680
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:03.900
a safe place that you always can go back to.

681
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:06.839
And in Classic Hoo, it was something that the companion would

682
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:08.519
always say, can we please just go back to the TARDIS?

683
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.539
And the doctor would say no.

684
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.819
But in this story, the doctor goes back to the TARDIS.

685
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.240
And I love that bit where he opens up and it's just a regular

686
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:15.960
police box.

687
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.940
Or it's just an empty, empty box.

688
00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.859
And yeah, even the sanctuary has been taken away.

689
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:23.099
It's some, like, uh, wheel in space?

690
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.539
No, is it women's space?

691
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:28.259
Someone takes the time, blah, blah, blah, out of it and it's just

692
00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:29.460
an empty police box.

693
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:30.420
Oh, no, no, no.

694
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.160
No, we do it to the meddling monkey.

695
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.039
But it is something that we sort of have seen before, but we've

696
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.500
obviously never seen it in the new series and it creates a new

697
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:38.700
thing for the TARDIS to do.

698
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.160
And it is more time magic, you know.

699
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:44.220
And it's great how it's just the outside doors inside.

700
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:45.900
Yeah, it's not a white box.

701
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.779
It's like it's folded in on itself.

702
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:50.819
Originally it's scripted.

703
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:55.980
The police box prop was supposed to, like, disintegrate around

704
00:31:55.980 --> 00:31:56.400
him.

705
00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:59.160
It was supposed to fall apart around him, like he'd just become

706
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:00.180
paper or something.

707
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.519
All the panels fall out like a big couple books.

708
00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:06.240
Yeah, they decided not to do that for budgetry and safety

709
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:06.599
reasons.

710
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:12.119
There is a scene, isn't there, where there's a sort of giant fake

711
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:15.240
out because you do think that the doctor is going to throw the

712
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:19.859
lever and send Sutec back in time by doing some sort of

713
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:25.019
technological, you know, by doing some sort of techno battle

714
00:32:25.019 --> 00:32:26.160
solution to the problem.

715
00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.799
And it very much looks like it's going to work.

716
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:33.660
It's just perhaps a little bit too early in the episode for us to

717
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:35.160
completely fall for it.

718
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:40.200
But then it sort of fails horribly and ups the antique.

719
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:40.920
Well, he's killed.

720
00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:43.740
You know, the doctor's, he's, he's gone.

721
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.460
Well, I, because I love the idea in, I mean, in Doctor Who, it's

722
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.400
so rare that he swoops in with the TARDIS and everyone gets into

723
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:51.839
the TARDIS and he saves them at the end.

724
00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:54.660
That, I mean, that happens only a handful of times if I remember

725
00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:54.900
right.

726
00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:57.000
So, yeah.

727
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.519
And so, so, so adventure's over though.

728
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.299
So as soon as he says, you know, we'll get the TARDIS, we'll get

729
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:04.619
you all in, we'll get out of here and we'll fix it.

730
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:06.900
As soon as he says that, I don't quite believe it.

731
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.200
And I do like that they take that option away again a 2nd time, you

732
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:11.400
can't get into the TARDIS.

733
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.660
The TARDIS doesn't fix everything.

734
00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:15.119
And I, because that's just, you know, too easy to happen.

735
00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.519
And like, so I like it when riders remove that from the equation.

736
00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:18.660
He does it twice in this.

737
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:21.720
It's great that it just sort of disappears in all that's left of

738
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:22.980
the doctor and the TARDIS.

739
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:23.940
Because he's dead.

740
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.779
He's been great.

741
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:27.420
You don't quite believe it, but he's totally gone.

742
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.279
And she picks up the key and she's like, I'm on my own.

743
00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:31.619
Well, they make up for that later in this series.

744
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.920
And and the whole whole new series as well.

745
00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.440
It's like, oh, quick, get them out, get them out.

746
00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:40.619
Like, it's constantly using an escape, Bruce, the new series much

747
00:33:40.619 --> 00:33:41.460
more than it was in the classic.

748
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.119
Yeah.

749
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:44.759
I like it when they take it out And then at the end, the doctor's

750
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:46.200
gone, and so Rose has got to figure it out.

751
00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:49.799
Not only Rose, but Pete's got to figure out that he's dead and

752
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:51.839
he's got to fix it by going out there.

753
00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:54.180
So at the end, he, without even the doctor there to help them.

754
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.160
He's the one who sort of saves the whole thing.

755
00:33:56.220 --> 00:33:59.880
And then I just love our, um, I think when he's hit by the car

756
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:03.599
Rose is standing in the church door watching and he and the doctor

757
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.359
comes out from behind her, like, just like, like, it's such a

758
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:07.799
great...

759
00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:09.599
But he just appears, doesn't he?

760
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.880
Like, there's no sort of magic flash or anything like that.

761
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:14.579
It's just fixed now and the doctor's back.

762
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:22.500
And there is that thing where the doctor is standing in for pay

763
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:24.539
you know, for Rose's absent father.

764
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:30.000
And so, you know, Pete not only realises that he has to die to fix

765
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.639
this situation, but he actually realises that the doctor knew that

766
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:37.800
all along and that the big complicated plan with the TARDIS was

767
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.599
just his way of saving Pete, making sure that Pete didn't have to

768
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.840
go through that and that Rose didn't have to have a childhood

769
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:46.619
without a father.

770
00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:51.300
You know, he does all that stupid humans, you know, stupid apes

771
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:53.219
out for what they can get. thing.

772
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:58.019
But he really, really shows so much respect for Rose's feelings

773
00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:00.539
about the loss of her father.

774
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.119
You know, before when we were talking about him giving Rose a 2nd

775
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:06.539
chance.

776
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:10.320
Like anyone who's watched any Doctor Who at all would have to

777
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.260
think that he's gonna say, no, are you kidding?

778
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.000
You know, like, we're already here.

779
00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:18.960
There's the 53rd law of time, which expressly forbids doing this

780
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:20.760
blah, blah, blah.

781
00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:24.840
And he says, yeah, all right, you know, because it's important.

782
00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:26.880
The 53rd law thing.

783
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.280
That's what happens in fan fiction when you let fans write, Doctor

784
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:29.579
Who.

785
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.880
But if you let, you know, when you've got to write a, Yeah, I just

786
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:35.280
love how he's like, yeah, no, we'll just we'll try one more time

787
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:36.719
but this is the only time you can't do it again.

788
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.800
Yeah, yeah.

789
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:40.920
And that is a proper rule. you know, like, you know, there's a

790
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:42.119
proper rule and a reason for that.

791
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:46.920
But he does do something risky because he recognises that it's

792
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.619
important for Rose to do this.

793
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:54.300
It's interesting that he's standing here for Rose's father

794
00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:55.019
throughout this series.

795
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:58.139
And then, yeah, he regenerates him.

796
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.539
That's a kind of creepy kind of.

797
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.400
That's so true.

798
00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:03.119
I never thought of that.

799
00:36:03.179 --> 00:36:05.340
Well, we all marry our fathers.

800
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:09.480
It was from from daddy to love interest.

801
00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:11.400
It is a bit creepy, very creepy.

802
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.360
I really like the custom in this.

803
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:25.019
I like, I do like at the start when I'm, they're in the flat and

804
00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:28.260
he's sort of kind of, he's got his arms folded. he's given her the

805
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:28.860
silent treatment.

806
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.559
He's kind of insinuating that, uh, is this why he came along with

807
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:33.539
me in the 1st place all those episodes ago?

808
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.659
Was this just your plan all along just to like sneak out and save

809
00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:36.960
your dad?

810
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.960
Space, like, it travels in space.

811
00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:40.559
I said.

812
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:42.539
And then I said, it travels in time.

813
00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:44.039
And then you were interested.

814
00:36:44.820 --> 00:36:45.659
Um, yeah.

815
00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:48.780
I think it's very clear that it wasn't premeditated, was it?

816
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:51.000
It's just that she couldn't bear to watch it a 2nd time.

817
00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:57.900
Well, not as recent, both Russell and Paul, I think, have said on

818
00:36:57.900 --> 00:36:58.980
a number of occasions.

819
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:00.599
We left that ambiguous.

820
00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:04.800
We actually never decided whether she had gone.

821
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.300
Oh, I can save dad.

822
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:13.320
Um, But Billy Piper has said, no, she always saw it as, like, it

823
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.000
was, it was just spur at the moment.

824
00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:17.820
She's overcome with, Oh gosh, I could save my father.

825
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:21.059
So that, I mean, like, that's how she was playing it.

826
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.699
Well, the way the way it plays out on screen is like that.

827
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.500
And when she says, you know, it wasn't my, that wasn't my

828
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:25.860
intention.

829
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:27.179
I didn't know, just kind of did it.

830
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:30.059
I mean, she's got, you know, you don't, the characters can't

831
00:37:30.059 --> 00:37:30.599
really lie to you.

832
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:31.199
You know what I mean?

833
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:32.400
unless it comes out again later.

834
00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:34.739
I like that fight a lot.

835
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:38.820
Like, it's kind of cute that Pete just assumes that it's a, you

836
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:40.559
know, boyfriend trouble and stuff like that.

837
00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:44.880
But, but he storms off and you, like, you know the format of the

838
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:48.179
show and you know that, you know, it's not going to ditch the

839
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:52.619
female lead midway through. an episode, probably, although more of

840
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:53.579
that later in the season.

841
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:58.260
Um, But, um, it's a real proper fight.

842
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.699
He's really properly angry, and she's so horrible to him because.

843
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:09.119
He's one weakness is that he's lost everyone that he ever knew his

844
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.920
family, his home, his planet.

845
00:38:10.980 --> 00:38:13.139
And she just goes, you'll be back.

846
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:14.639
I know how lonely you are.

847
00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:16.139
I know how sad you are.

848
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:18.420
It's so brutal.

849
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.679
She's so horrible to him.

850
00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:24.599
And when they do meet one another again and it's they do it just

851
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:26.940
very briefly before some kind of crisis happens.

852
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.139
It's all okay.

853
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:33.119
And I like when a show will rely on just the performance of the

854
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:37.920
act is to sell sort of forgiveness without having to kind of rub

855
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:38.639
our nose in it.

856
00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:41.039
Yeah, like you say, they're just sort of touching it really

857
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:41.460
briefly.

858
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:43.500
You know, he says, you know, I wouldn't really have left you.

859
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:44.280
She says, oh, no.

860
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:45.780
I just like, that's great.

861
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:46.980
A little shorthand.

862
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.199
And then he just asked her to say sorry.

863
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:53.639
It's kind of weird, but it's a bit weird, but I do like how

864
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:59.159
Eccleston's really good at being sort of Stern and serious and a

865
00:38:59.159 --> 00:38:59.579
bit worried.

866
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:02.280
And then when he just turns that big smile on, you know

867
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:04.440
everything's going to be all right. when he turns that smile on

868
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:04.800
it's huge.

869
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:06.420
Like it's great. really good at it.

870
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.380
He does it again in that moment when he's talking to the two, the

871
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:12.840
bride and the groom, you know, when they come up to him and I love

872
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:13.320
this moment.

873
00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:15.599
Some people think it's a bit cheesy, but I love it.

874
00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:19.199
Like he come up to her and say, you know, are we going to be

875
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.380
okay?

876
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:20.039
Are you going to save us?

877
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:22.500
I know we're not important and I just love that bit. this one line

878
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:24.179
where he says, who says you're not important?

879
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:28.380
And that, to me, I think when I saw that the 1st time, that might

880
00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:29.820
I mean, I did enjoy the episodes before that.

881
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:32.579
I really loved some of the episodes before this, but that's like

882
00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:34.739
that was the 1st time when I was like, wow, this is Doctor Who

883
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:35.820
they're really getting this right.

884
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.300
That little speech she says about, you know, street corner 2 AM

885
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:39.780
that's important.

886
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.440
You guys are important.

887
00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:47.820
It's a little bit like when Sandra says that, take a drink. that

888
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:51.599
Bob Holmes is the is the writer who discovers that the doctor's

889
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:53.940
enemy is bureaucracy, right?

890
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.860
And that is people who are hide bound.

891
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.460
I think Cornell is the person, and I could be wrong.

892
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:03.059
They may be counterexamples to this, but I think Cornell is the

893
00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:06.059
person that puts the ordinary person at the centre of the world

894
00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:09.300
that says that everyone is important.

895
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:16.679
And that the purpose of life, the things that are good, that are

896
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:17.219
worthwhile.

897
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:22.380
In a sense, the thing that the doctor gives up is street corner, 3

898
00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:23.280
o'clock in the morning.

899
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:27.900
And even when he talks about Pete, you know, he's an ordinary

900
00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:28.139
person.

901
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:36.239
It's kind of a much less, um, overt version of the, um, small

902
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.460
beautiful thing speech from earth shock.

903
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:39.599
Much less crap.

904
00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:41.639
Yeah, so I was trying to avoid saying that.

905
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.320
I love that earth shock.

906
00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:44.460
I know it's...

907
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:45.840
It means a lot to me, that one.

908
00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:49.139
I mean, that's probably, well, that's, I mean, you get moments of

909
00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:52.920
charm with her, but like that's probably the 1st time you get that

910
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.659
sort of, you know, this is what life should...

911
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.420
Yeah, look, I think I think the problem with that is that it gets

912
00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:04.260
uh, it, that the doctor loses that argument because the cyber

913
00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:06.599
leader, just so it's Tegan and he just...

914
00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:08.699
That's what we said in our Earthstock episode.

915
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:11.219
I know if you remember, but I've always felt, ever since I saw it

916
00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:14.519
as a kid, that he loses that argument against the Saberman because

917
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.400
he's got no answer for when they, you know, when they say where

918
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.260
they're going to kill his companion and then emotions are a

919
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:19.679
weakness.

920
00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:21.300
And I've always found that to be deeply bleak.

921
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.059
Yeah, yeah, it's very say-wardian, I think.

922
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.159
Well, you know, like, I think there was sort of a debating point.

923
00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:33.659
But here it's something that I think the story is 100% behind.

924
00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:39.780
The show lands on the idea that ordinary people are important and

925
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:44.039
it really has sort of failed to make that point a lot of times in

926
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:44.340
the past.

927
00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:47.639
And it's a point that will be made again.

928
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:52.199
You know, Moffatt adopts it, um, in a Christmas carol, where

929
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:55.980
Sardic says that, uh, you know, this young woman in the freezer is

930
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:59.219
is not important and the doctor goes, wow, that's strange.

931
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:01.260
I've never met anyone who wasn't involved before.

932
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.639
And then and then rewrites his life to make her make her a love

933
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:06.239
interest.

934
00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:10.260
And here it's, I mean, they're important because, I mean, not only

935
00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:13.260
yeah, because this sort of doctor sees ordinary people as

936
00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:14.579
important, but they've got a story.

937
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:17.639
You know, immediately they, he says, you know, where'd you meet?

938
00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:17.940
you?

939
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:18.420
Watch your story?

940
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:20.039
they tell them about 2 AM on the street corner.

941
00:42:20.099 --> 00:42:22.199
And, you know, you warm to them immediately because they're sort

942
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:23.639
of looking at each other and they're remembering.

943
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.340
And as soon as they get a story, They're important.

944
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:28.500
And, you know, that's sort of the point, you know, even though

945
00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:30.420
people are ordinary, they've all got a story to tell.

946
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.000
Like, they've all got it, they've brought them to that point.

947
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:35.639
There's something beautiful in their interaction too.

948
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:36.420
Do you know what I mean?

949
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:40.199
When the groom mentions his father and then remembers that his

950
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:44.460
father's just been eaten and the bride comforts him just very

951
00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:46.380
gently and then they go on talking.

952
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.300
And of course, the bride's pregnant.

953
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:53.699
And so they've got a future ahead of them that we're constantly

954
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:55.440
just visually reminded of.

955
00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:59.579
You know, they're important because they have a future and they're

956
00:42:59.579 --> 00:43:01.139
going to affect the future.

957
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.219
And again, there's just something, the scale, the human scale of

958
00:43:05.219 --> 00:43:07.380
that, I think, is spectacular grade.

959
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.019
I've got such a soft spot for them because their wedding looks

960
00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:13.440
exactly like so many 80s weddings I went to in my family as a kid

961
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:13.980
in England.

962
00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:16.559
Right down to the gray suits and like, do you notice the, I think

963
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.840
the groom has got like an earring, like a little stud?

964
00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:20.460
I love that little touch.

965
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:23.039
Someone in, someone in production was like, let's give him a

966
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:23.460
little lyrics.

967
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:24.539
It's great.

968
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.539
Right down to the, yeah, right down to the all the gray suits and

969
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:28.559
the pregnant bride.

970
00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:30.480
It's right straight flashback from me.

971
00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:03.300
Wealthy listener, we've dispelled all those pesky coronivores and

972
00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:06.119
substantially improved the timeline, so it's time to head back to

973
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:10.019
the 1940s to emotionally scar a whole new generation of children.

974
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:12.599
We'll see you next week for the empty child.

975
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:16.980
In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com

976
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:20.699
flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE

977
00:44:20.699 --> 00:44:21.780
podcast on Twitter.

978
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.820
Where can people find you, Dan?

979
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:27.960
Oh, you can follow Noodahoo on Twitter at Noodahoo podcast.

980
00:44:28.019 --> 00:44:31.559
We're on, we are on Facebook in a very limited way, where you can

981
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.380
get our episodes at newtohoo.com or wherever you get your

982
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:34.739
podcasts.

983
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:36.539
Over on Bondfinger.

984
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:39.239
Our flight through the entirety of the James Bond film series is

985
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:40.800
reaching its ultimate termination.

986
00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:44.519
You can find our commentaries at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on

987
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:48.059
Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

988
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:51.960
Until next time, may the next wedding gift you buy not end up

989
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.739
being an ominous symbol of your own ineluctable mortality.

990
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.179
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

991
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:58.260
Good night.

992
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:58.980
Good night.

993
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:07.260
That was Flight to Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, James

994
00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:08.940
Selwood, and Daniel from New to Who.

995
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.000
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane

996
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:12.719
Alberg.

997
00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:16.860
This episode, Moisten Up, was recorded on the 29th of July 2018

998
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:19.019
and released on the 14th of October.

999
00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:25.199
Fans of flights to Entirety will also enjoy Jody InterTara, a

1000
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:28.139
weekly Doctor Who flashcast, where we briefly discuss each new

1001
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:31.679
episode of Series 11 after it airs, available now at

1002
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:35.039
Jodyinterterra.com, and soon on Apple Podcasts.

1003
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:36.900
So what do you think?

1004
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.860
It feels good so far.

1005
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:43.260
Yeah, yeah, I think we're doing good.

1006
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:48.360
I mean, I'd be happy to, unless, you know, if there's, um, I don't

1007
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:51.840
like, I, I, honestly, like I, I don't feel like I've left anything

1008
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:56.159
out, but I was, I'm trying to think of, I'm trying to think of

1009
00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:56.880
some more stuff.

1010
00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:59.760
Well, everything I've written I've already talked about.

1011
00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:01.260
Well, I think we're okay.

1012
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.860
Do you know what I mean?

1013
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:03.900
I think that, yeah, I think that we're okay.

1014
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:08.820
I think that's the only thing I forgot to say is my favourite...

1015
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:11.460
I think my favourite part about Rose, like we said before, like

1016
00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:16.079
how you sort of, um, how am I going to go about this because it's

1017
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:17.579
not, you're not disappointed by your parents.

1018
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:22.019
The fight, one of the, my favourite things about Rose, like I said

1019
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:24.780
before, you sort of learn that your parents are people before they

1020
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:26.820
were parents and that they are still people before their parents.

1021
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:31.199
One of my favourite things about Rose before she even meets her

1022
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:34.559
dad. is that I think they go somewhere, I think it's before he's

1023
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:35.760
on the, they're on the street corner.

1024
00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:36.900
They go somewhere and see him talk.

1025
00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:39.900
And the 1st thing she says is, I thought he'd be taller.

1026
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:43.019
It's the wedding, isn't it?

1027
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:43.860
They go to the wedding.

1028
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:45.179
Is that?

1029
00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:46.920
Yeah, they're standing.

1030
00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:48.300
I think, yeah, I think you're right, Nathan.

1031
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:49.500
They're standing at the back of the wedding.

1032
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:53.039
Oh, I thought he, I thought he was taller.

1033
00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:54.840
I love it.

1034
00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:56.159
He gets Jackie's name wrong.

1035
00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:58.199
He can't remember Jackie. their wedding.

1036
00:46:58.260 --> 00:46:58.980
Oh, that's right.

1037
00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:01.800
That happened at the rehearsal for my wedding.

1038
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:04.679
Yeah, yeah, no, but it happened at Charles and Dyer's wedding.

1039
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.440
She says it's good enough for Lady Day.

1040
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:10.440
Can we cut that out?

1041
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:11.460
Jason, kill me.

1042
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:16.380
But I love that the 1st thing is, you know, the 1st thing in this

1043
00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:18.840
monumental figure that she's been built up by her mother for her

1044
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:20.639
life and she imagines that he'd be taller.

1045
00:47:20.699 --> 00:47:22.440
It's a full that stuff. so great.

1046
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:25.260
And it's like, it's for the best introduction to him because it's

1047
00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:26.219
like, you know, he's nervous.

1048
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.320
He's forgotten his wife's full name.

1049
00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:31.260
Well, she does have a long full name and then, you know, it's sort

1050
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:35.039
of taken, like from there that he's a bit of a bit useless.

1051
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:36.119
I just love that.