WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:36:39

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Hello and welcome to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast with the subliminal centre you're trained to see.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm a Spangly fly curtain in a dry ice meat free, sir.

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And that can only mean one thing that it is time for season 5 of

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Doctor Who.

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So, uh, with uh, I'm doing a muted hooray.

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With mixed enthusiasm.

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This whole season.

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Should we go through?

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what is this season?

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We talk about season season five.

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But if you're not a regular viewer, what does season 5 mean on the

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list of Doctor Who stories?

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What were they?

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Well, it is constantly described as the monster season, isn't it?

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Six out of the 7 stories have a definable monster menace.

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In 2 cases, they are a returning monster, and we even have another

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2 stories with the same monster in the same season.

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And interestingly, we'll talk about this more next episode.

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But the one story that doesn't have a monster was for years

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derided as the most terrible story in Patrick Trown's era.

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And yet now that it's turned up, that would be the enemy of the

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world.

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Now that it's turned up, people are reassessing it, which is very

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interesting.

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So there's been a lot of reassessing with this season.

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We're headed into the classic or is it 2 of the side men.

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Two of the side of them was very famously lost for some period of

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time before a copy of all 4 episodes were discovered in the

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basement of a Mormon church in Hong Kong, I believe, much to

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Deborah Watling's surprise.

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I think we're all surprised.

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What would the Mormons be doing with...

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Why are they in Hong Kong?

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It had this mythic status. of how wonderful it was because it

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didn't exist.

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And then when it turned up, it's still regarded very highly, but a

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lot of that kind of went away because you get things like the

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dummy cyber controller.

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You can see the Kirby wires when Togerman's being thrown across

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the room.

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You know, it...

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But really, all it's done is it's only a fence, if you like, was

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coming down to the same level as the rest of 1960s Doctor Who, when

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everyone else had elevated it to being like the mummy movies that

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so clearly inspired.

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Or in fact, it's like every other series of 1966, 67 TV that is

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about doing one thing and doing it very, very well to get those

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overseas sales.

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We've talked before about how the colour Diana Riggs season of the

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Avengers is the same plot, slightly different face costume

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slightly different comedy accents for whatever villain it is each

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week.

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We've got Batman directly opposite Paddy on the ITV network

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swamping this show, doing the same plot each season, which will

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actually end up being the death of that show.

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As it kind of was for the Avengers as well.

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Doctor Who seems to be, we talked about this being a very very

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programmed and received idea of how to do Doctor Who.

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I think this is actually the most radical season of Doctor Who

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since the beginning, because it's actually looking, maybe for the

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1st time, although I think with Patrick, it was always doing this

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at what the TV show doctor who is actually about, and being

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terribly self-conscious, and very much about going right back to

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being the TV set inside the TV set inside the TV, it's kind of

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interesting.

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Okay, a lot of people have said, it's the same story, each with a

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different head on it.

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But there's a lot of variation and interest within that.

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What did you think of abominable sermon?

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It's your story.

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Fairwell living too.

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Oh, did I get those too confused?

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I do, but that must be...

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This is...

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I mean, if we're talking about the season as a whole.

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I have to completely confess that I haven't quite reached the end

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of it and that I have no idea what happens in Fury from the D. Oh

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you're gonna love it.

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Really?

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But it's, is it 5 out of 7 that feature the yeti, the cybermen or

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the ice warriors in some form?

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Yes.

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Yeah, so you've got 2 sidemen, 2 yeti, and an ice warriors.

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And they're interchangeable.

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They sort of vaguely robot shaped people in stupid costumes

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menacing a bunch of people on a base.

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And I have to say that I found this a bit of a slog really, like I

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actually kind of found this sort of hard to get through.

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Well, unfortunately, Jennifer, I'm actually going to have to be

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the one who disagrees with you. as we go forward.

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That's going to be very interesting.

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So looking at Tomb of the Sidemen, it picks up from the end of

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evil of the Daleks.

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So we leave Scarrow, we've got the new companion in the shape of

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Victoria, so Victoria's replaced Polly.

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Ben has been replaced by the BBC foam machine, which makes its 1st

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of many appearances in this story.

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And the weird thing is, this story, it is so derivative.

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Two of the side minutes, so derivative.

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So many other works.

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Yeah, so many other shows.

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Absolutely.

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But it is confidently so.

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It's deliberately derivative.

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It's like what we would eventually get in the field of Hingecliff

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era about 8 years later.

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You know, it's Doctor Who, being other shows, as you preferred to

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it already, Richard, but very confidently doing so.

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It's not trying to rip off other shows.

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It's trying to pay homage.

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The weird thing is, Tomb of the Sidemen is so successful, because

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it is so derivative, and it's this weird tension of, it's actually

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quite good, but it's only good because you've seen it all before.

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Yeah, it's hard to make television in 66, 67 for and this is the

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catch. for overseas sales.

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Everyone was trying to jump on the Lou Gray, Jerry Anderson hit of

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the Saint and the Thunderbirds and all those other shows of making

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big money with overseas sales.

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Doctor Who was always already doing actually quite well in

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Australia.

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You know, it didn't get immodest fees.

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The Saudis liked it.

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Really?

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Yeah, they did.

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It's sold to the South that they picked up on Billy very quickly.

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I'm just segueing for a moment.

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It's amazing how much overseas sales are still so important in

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television.

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Well, isn't it interesting that this season, I wanted to say, we

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start with tomb of the side, and then we then go to abominable

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snowmen.

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We then have...

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The Ice Warrior.

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The ice Warriors and we then, and, you know, other than the James

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Bond segue with Enemy of the World, we've pretty much got the same

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story each time.

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We haven't we seen that again with Impossible Astronaut, and

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that's that season of Matt Smith's block that seems very much a

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mirror of the way that they were making TV in this season, the way

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you put ideas, as you were saying, from other shows that have been

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successful, because that's how people are watching at the moment.

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So this is a really interesting window into what was going on in

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1967 on that little box in the room, and therefore maybe in a

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wider way of just how people were responding to culture at the

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time.

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So 2 of the Cybermen is a beautiful show because of it, it's got

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that internal dichotomy that it, as all the ones do, that there

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are some really great things about it and some others are maybe

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not so great, but it doesn't look iconic, isn't it?

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Isn't it actually the Cyberman story?

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Oh, the go to side of the main story?

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Absolutely. sort of in that it's terrible. you know what I mean?

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The sidemen are kind of disappointing at the best of times, really

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because you kind of just wish it would be the Daleks, you know.

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And, you know, since the 10th planet, we've had the moon base

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which is sort of terribly generic.

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And now we have this, and I just think this is a bit of a mess

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really.

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Like, you know, it's got a beautiful set piece.

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It has some great stuff, shock films.

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You've got a cyber leader that's actually kind of, I know what

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they all say, it's Michael Kilgariff, but, you know, Stephen Fry's

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quite a tall chat.

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It does sound like he's Lord Melcher, doesn't it, with a boy

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scotter?

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But, you know, I just think it's just too much like everything

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that is around it.

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And maybe we can understand.

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We can understand why that is and syndication and things, but it

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just doesn't make for a terribly entertaining show.

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Oh, what about the cast?

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Well, except for the cast.

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So you've got a bunch of people trying to do American accents, I

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suppose they're American and one of them's Clive Merrison, who

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will go on to be the deputy chief caretaker in Paradise Towers.

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He was too, wasn't he?

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And they're considered the greatest Sherlock Holmes radio version

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of all time, along with Michael Williams, who was doing Judy

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Dench's husband as Watson.

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And they're on BBC.

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And on, um, the one that you quote all the time audible. to

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download?

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Yeah, I've just listened to them a lot on the radio.

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They are superb.

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So, yeah, Cladmer isn't a fantastic in later career.

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But then he's also in this.

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That's right.

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And then you've got, and then what have you got?

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Your Professor Harry, who is yet another sort of slight, you know

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middle-aged white guy in charge of the...

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No, we're getting to see.

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Oh, Cyril Chapley's gone China.

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And he is fantastic, obviously.

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That's not a reference to his leg of alcoholism, is it?

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He's a little bit.

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It should be a great cast, but it's really making Thunderbirds

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sound fantastic, isn't it?

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And then you put the villains.

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You know what I mean?

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And this is this is the famous thing, you know, so you've got Eric

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Cle, you've got Betty Cathay.

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And then you've got our 2nd mute black strongman in a row.

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So in as many stories.

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Just in case you missed the idea the 1st time, right?

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Oh, it's not the idea, is it?

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It's more of a trope.

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But it's a trope, but it's really sort of lazy, insulting, and

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kind of racist.

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Yeah.

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Now, what I'm going to say about the characters, yes.

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First of all, I am just going to say that Toberman's

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characterisation is unforgivable.

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And a lot of people cite that, oh, well, the thing is he was meant

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to be deaf and that's why he didn't speak.

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So it's like, right, so not only was it meant to be a racist

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caricature, he was also meant to make fun of the sable.

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Yeah, that doesn't make it better.

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And, you know, at the end, when spoiler alert, Toberman has been

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semi-converting into a cyberman, Betty Kaftan is dead, the doctor

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has to explain to him that killing people is bad.

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He's also treated like he's got no basic morality, no intelligence

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whatsoever.

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Is that because of his colour or is it just, you know, that that's

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look, again, this is going back, and you talked about this being a

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lot of other shows and other films.

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It really, Doctor Who does go back to the heyday of British

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fantasy fiction, which is late Victorian Edwardian writing, and

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you've always got a big blokey black fellow who's a bit of a

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thickie, and when they haven't hung up propensity to hitting.

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I'm not saying it's good, but it's almost, it's nostalgic racism.

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This is the same kind of thing that we criticise the arc for

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because it's one thing to say that this is like a past text, but

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really, most of the time when Doctor Who takes a past text and

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reimagines it, it will try to make the shortcomings of that text

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better and that just doesn't happen here.

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However, Something I do like about the characters in these

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stories.

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And there is a great deal of discussion as well around the fact

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that the 2 villains, Betty, Captain, and Eric Kleeg, are both non

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British with comedy accents.

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With comedy.

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Well, apart from George Pastel, who's probably using his own

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name.

247
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Yes, that is his own act.

248
00:11:55.860 --> 00:11:59.940
You know, they are non-British characters.

249
00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.179
They are the other, whereas everyone else is British or American

250
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:08.159
in terms of the and actually equally offensive in both.

251
00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:09.299
Is it?

252
00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:10.080
But that's the thing.

253
00:12:10.139 --> 00:12:14.519
The 2 villains are the only guest characters with any

254
00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:15.120
intelligence.

255
00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:17.100
Or motivation. or motivation.

256
00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:17.820
Everyone indeed.

257
00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:18.899
Yeah, actually doing that.

258
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.940
What is the doctor doing in this adventure?

259
00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.519
Again, that's not horrible.

260
00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:27.000
He does explain his behaviour, I think, sometime in episode 3

261
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.940
where he says, you know, I was trying to work out what you were

262
00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:33.539
doing, Cleave, and see, you know, you know, find out what your

263
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:34.139
plan was.

264
00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.159
But it's completely strange in episode one.

265
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:40.919
So their plan is because they learned on this planet.

266
00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:45.600
But it's just like a lovely big density quarry type affair, which

267
00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.120
is still surprising and a bit exalting when we see it in this

268
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:48.299
story.

269
00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.460
I haven't really seen it that many times before.

270
00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.500
I think just the savages, really?

271
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:53.159
That was it.

272
00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:54.120
Yeah, that's it.

273
00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:55.799
Yeah, it's stunning.

274
00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:57.240
Gorgeous use of library music.

275
00:12:57.299 --> 00:12:59.700
Visually, I think this thing is just great.

276
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:03.480
There's that lovely opening moment where, again, you've got HR

277
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.320
right at HR, or you've got King Solomon's Minds, and they have to

278
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.500
open the great doors of this tomb, which we, the viewers already

279
00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:13.019
know something's up because there's a logo on those doors and it

280
00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:15.960
is a very happy smiley friendly face, isn't it?

281
00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:17.159
It's got junkies.

282
00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:19.559
Yeah, and of course, the 1st bodies already get the floor before

283
00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:20.220
the door is open.

284
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:21.539
Before the door's even open.

285
00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:23.220
Yeah, it's got a nicer pace to it.

286
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.220
So, if people are saying they don't like it, and the racism thing

287
00:13:26.220 --> 00:13:29.279
is the most clacksam like thing in it, because, yeah, it's pretty

288
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.139
awful to look at for that.

289
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.500
It's just the inherent dumbness of the character's reactions.

290
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:35.940
And something that we all know.

291
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.559
We've seen this story many times before.

292
00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:39.600
We know what they should be doing to get it right.

293
00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:42.059
They don't internally know themselves.

294
00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.759
They're making shocking mistakes all the way through it, aren't

295
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:44.879
they?

296
00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:48.360
You know, I think this too, and discovering this lost race of side

297
00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:48.659
of it.

298
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:50.279
It's the doctor's behaviour, though.

299
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:51.480
That's the weirdest, right?

300
00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:55.139
Because they get in there and they actually can't get in.

301
00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.019
You know, they can't work out how to do the levers to open the

302
00:13:58.019 --> 00:13:58.980
match or anything like that.

303
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.419
And a doctor can't resist showing them all and showing off and, you

304
00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:05.759
know, doing the logic puzzles and all of that.

305
00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:09.240
And it is this very strange thing where, um, you know, people go

306
00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.820
oh, it's the dark and manipulative trout and he's, you know

307
00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:13.919
anticipating Sylvester McCoy is really trying to.

308
00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:14.700
Yeah, we see it now.

309
00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:15.120
Yeah, yeah.

310
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:18.360
But really, in fact, it's just something that doesn't make a great

311
00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:19.019
deal of sense.

312
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.019
It's more like the meddling monk in the story than he is, the

313
00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:23.460
doctor that we've known.

314
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:24.419
It doesn't.

315
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.779
I just don't think there's a sensible in story reason for it.

316
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.539
And he's so propelling his own narrative.

317
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:32.879
Well, yeah, it's better about it.

318
00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:36.120
Well, he doesn't want to see one episode.

319
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.100
We can't get in.

320
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.600
All right.

321
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.279
We'll go, have families to support.

322
00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:44.700
See, when I actually think about this one is, you know, he's just

323
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:49.259
done the Daleks in, and I think his thought process is he can now

324
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:51.600
do the same to the Cyberman that he needs to get in there.

325
00:14:51.659 --> 00:14:55.919
Are you getting lots of silver watching this, what, rewatching

326
00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:56.519
these seasons?

327
00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:58.860
I'm really seeing a lot of, not just Matt.

328
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.740
I'm surprised how much of Matt is in these, especially obviously

329
00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:04.919
this story, because this is the one that Matt Smith saw, apparently

330
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.559
when was his defiant, how he played the doctor.

331
00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:10.740
But the, yeah, the troublemaking hit.

332
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:14.100
There are many colours and shades to this doctor.

333
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.039
He's a much more interesting doctor than I found he'd previously

334
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:18.000
viewing.

335
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:20.639
And he even says at the end of the story.

336
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:23.879
You know, they were just asleep for centuries.

337
00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:25.320
Now it must be forever.

338
00:15:25.379 --> 00:15:30.960
It's the doctor just trying to, in this case, not destroy the

339
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.019
cybermen so much, but take them out of the equation and really it

340
00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:36.600
doesn't matter who gets hurt in the pro.

341
00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:38.639
He's really great on the collateral, isn't he?

342
00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:39.840
This whole season.

343
00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:40.440
Good luck.

344
00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:41.700
It's the red shirt principle.

345
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.299
If you're wearing a Tommy, if you're carrying a Tommy gun and

346
00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:48.360
looking a bit working class, you're not picking for a good story.

347
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:52.440
But that being said, we also have in their story that part of what

348
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.960
has happened previously with the collateral, with the death of

349
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:59.399
Edward Waterfield, that he has taken Victoria under his wing.

350
00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:03.240
And of course, we get that lovely off-quoted scene of him

351
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.940
discussing the notion of family Victoria.

352
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:10.440
Oh, I can remember my family if I really want to, but the rest of

353
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:11.940
the time they sleep in my mind.

354
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:16.320
Or actually on a bomb site in deserted London in a 100 or

355
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:17.159
something years time.

356
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.559
But, you know, we might worry about that, will we?

357
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.679
Yeah, but I mean, and that leads me to something else.

358
00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:26.279
I wanted to say about the story in that I think, and I'll be

359
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.440
discussing this more as the season goes on, the Victoria.

360
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.740
And especially Deborah Watley gets a really short shrift.

361
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:32.879
I think so too.

362
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:35.220
But I think that's turning around now with the recently discovered

363
00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:35.519
episodes.

364
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.340
No, I think she gets a deservedly short shrift.

365
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.480
Oh, really?

366
00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:42.659
But in this story, you know, for example, yes, there's that lovely

367
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:43.860
moment that we all talk about.

368
00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:47.460
But it's only a few 10 seconds, 30 seconds under the rest of it.

369
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.139
She's as dumb as 6 coats of lead paint on a Victorian facade.

370
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:53.820
She's given nothing.

371
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.480
She moans, she squirrels, she does dumb things in cupboards.

372
00:16:57.539 --> 00:17:00.840
She takes on, she takes it, she takes on capstan and wins.

373
00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:06.480
She also has like a fun line in teasing the, um, Crimea, like

374
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.220
Americans.

375
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:09.420
Yeah, actually, thank you.

376
00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:10.019
She does do that.

377
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.779
So you're willing to back off a bit on that position.

378
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:13.500
No, I'm not.

379
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.140
So it's a very sort of strange thing.

380
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.380
We introduced a sort of, you know, and she's the new companion.

381
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.079
She's from the Victorian era.

382
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.640
She's just lost her father.

383
00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:25.019
You know, she's all.

384
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:25.799
And her entire world.

385
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.059
Yeah, that's interesting.

386
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.539
So the 1st thing she does is pull on a mini skirt for those sort

387
00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:34.140
of redly discernable reasons and a very proper pointy bra.

388
00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:37.380
An uplift, cobble, concord was being launched at the time.

389
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:37.920
You know?

390
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.980
Howard Hughes had already done it for Jane Russell, with the cues

391
00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:43.079
on a cut shoving a couple of cues on our walks, done it.

392
00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:46.079
You know, the story that Howard Hughes invented the great, the tip

393
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.619
up wired underwired suspension bra for Jane Russell's.

394
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:52.200
So, how we thing?

395
00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:55.380
So how would Victoria even know what that was?

396
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.440
Well, the TARDIS has many rooms we've still not seen.

397
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:01.140
I mean, because that some of them are costume museums.

398
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.660
There must have been somewhere along the paths, there have been

399
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:06.539
doctors who have been all the aspects of the doctor we don't know

400
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.119
and one of them is that he's besties with.

401
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:13.200
Hell of a lot of people at Victoria and Albert. she's I think he's

402
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.599
a bit of a cosplay queen on the TV.

403
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:17.940
Well, he's certainly got a lot of outfits in that.

404
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.880
He was married to Marilyn Monroe, so she might have lectured in

405
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.160
bras, you know, fine for...

406
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:24.660
Thank you, Stephen Moffatt for doing that again.

407
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:30.359
You see, I actually think that this is perfectly in keeping with

408
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:31.380
Victoria's character.

409
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.579
She's had a massive shock.

410
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.279
Richard, you and I were discussing this earlier before the podcast

411
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.180
and people who do have massive shocks will kind of sort of change

412
00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:39.720
everything.

413
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:41.640
You know, I must change.

414
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:45.299
I must renew myself. based behaviour and it does take on the

415
00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:47.400
appearance of addiction and some of them can be.

416
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:49.559
Yeah, some can be those huge.

417
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:52.019
And she does have her moment of doubt, but don't you think this

418
00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:53.160
skirt is too short?

419
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.920
She sort of says to the doctor, you know, she's obviously thrown

420
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.259
it on and kind of go, oh, okay, this is interesting.

421
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.980
Okay, I'll go out wearing this, but then it's caught up with her

422
00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:03.660
and actually was just such a good idea.

423
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.440
Yeah, I like to think that there are like the big finish things.

424
00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:09.720
There are stories in between the stories we see where we get

425
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.960
character development because it's the only way to explain the

426
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.539
quantum leaps that don't actually make a lot of sense of

427
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:16.619
characters development.

428
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.920
Somehow Jamie's able to read not only the console in later

429
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.859
episodes, but read London underground maps, even though he's never

430
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:24.119
seen an underground train before.

431
00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:26.880
And there's a whole, yeah, we just have to read that as being

432
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:27.660
under the story.

433
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:28.500
You don't.

434
00:19:28.619 --> 00:19:33.119
Well, no, I just think, I think, you know, it is this thing where

435
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.839
the characters kind of have an origin story because of the story

436
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.480
that they're introduced in, but we're not really particularly

437
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:40.319
interested in that.

438
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:45.839
And it is kind of, um, you know, essentially Victoria's role isn't

439
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.420
to be, you know, a well-rounded, interesting person.

440
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.819
It's to be menaced by monsters for a year.

441
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.200
And she does that very well.

442
00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:55.740
She has lots of screaming and lots of, oh, Chaney, you know, sort

443
00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:56.880
of little skirts.

444
00:19:56.940 --> 00:20:00.839
And, and, you know, like this week she's wearing, you know, a shop

445
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:02.039
girl frog.

446
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:05.519
And then next week she's back in sort of Victorian attire, you

447
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.920
know, when she gets to London Underground, she's wearing a sort of

448
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.880
hippie frock, it just all doesn't really make any sense, you know

449
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:12.720
as far as I can see.

450
00:20:12.779 --> 00:20:16.319
See, I disagree because even in evil of the dialects, we saw that

451
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.039
Victoria was quite rebellious and independent, especially for a

452
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:21.660
young girl of that time period.

453
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.059
You know, she talks back to the Daleks.

454
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:28.500
She is friends with a servant and a black servant.

455
00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:30.000
Big black servant.

456
00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:32.819
I think there's a lot of reasons she's wearing a push-up or a

457
00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:33.359
little skirt.

458
00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:34.619
You know, she's not a little girl.

459
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:38.700
No, I just think I think she's, you know, like again, we've met

460
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:41.700
Debbie Waddling at conventions and she's absolutely lovely.

461
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:42.480
Do you know what I mean?

462
00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:47.519
Like, then the character is just, like, smug cigars and swirl beer

463
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.779
like a soda.

464
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:49.920
No, well, that's what I meant.

465
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:50.640
Probably, yeah.

466
00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:52.500
She only a black eye once.

467
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.420
She did too, yeah.

468
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.619
Listen, she did.

469
00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.000
Watch it.

470
00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:01.619
Anyway, we meant to duck, you know, it was some playful journey.

471
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:02.759
Oh, yes, yes, I know.

472
00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:04.500
We have to take the hit.

473
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.160
I secretly wanted to. punched me in the face.

474
00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.119
It was flaws.

475
00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:12.779
That's the type of my upcoming autobiography.

476
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:15.420
So there's lots unaddressed.

477
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.059
We have, but we kind of know it because you know what?

478
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.480
If we've missed the points of the plot, this story, we'll get you

479
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:22.859
within the next one.

480
00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:24.900
And the one after that as well.

481
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:30.599
So, yeah, we're off on retreat in Tibet with the abominable

482
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:31.200
snowman.

483
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:32.339
What are those spots that sit out?

484
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.059
Unfortunately, we're now back to stories which are largely

485
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:42.299
missing.

486
00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:47.220
But where we have the benefits of this one of the really good

487
00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:53.160
loose cannon reconstruction complete with CGI yetis, which are one

488
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:54.599
of the greatest things.

489
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:56.339
How do they move?

490
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.619
I'll be the casual listener.

491
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:00.839
I have a Chambly sort of move..

492
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:10.019
They move sorted, as you might imagine, someone in that kind of

493
00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:11.039
suit moving.

494
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:14.279
Like, the legs sort of have a circular motion as they they come

495
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.700
around. and yak skirts with kamboos.

496
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.079
Georgia State dances after a bit of champagne, I would imagine.

497
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:24.059
By the way, cheers, dear listen.

498
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:30.420
They actually got John Levine in to do motion capture like a whole

499
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:30.779
week.

500
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:35.400
He was in a sort of tracksuit covered in dots and that's how they

501
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:36.420
animated the Essie.

502
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.559
You're looking at me as if, uh, No, I had the same Tibetan primate

503
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.259
body movement by John Levine.

504
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.180
Is it John Levine?

505
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:46.200
Yeah, he is.

506
00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:47.700
Oh, no.

507
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:54.599
He's in Webber Theatre. as we are getting ahead of ourselves.

508
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.299
He is also the yeti who turns up for a cameo in the war game.

509
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:02.579
He's the go- he's the go-to 2nd banana for full brigadier in all

510
00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:03.480
the 70s series.

511
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:07.019
I forget that some of the friends listeners actually covered for

512
00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:07.559
shows.

513
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:09.299
So we're getting ahead of us.

514
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.440
Is Martin Jarvis in one of his...

515
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:14.579
And Rosalind De Winter.

516
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.019
Rosal's doing to see what?

517
00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:16.980
And several Shep.

518
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.720
Michael Sheen, Michael Sheen.

519
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.420
Michael Sheen plays the monastery.

520
00:23:21.539 --> 00:23:24.299
Oddly enough as well.

521
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.819
But this is the American Jackie Lane.

522
00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:28.259
I mean, that episode gets mustered.

523
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:28.740
Yeah, of course.

524
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.240
Just before we go on with this episode.

525
00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:34.680
I'd like to introduce our baked good for this episode.

526
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:40.740
I have made a ginger and lime yeti cake, and the recipe will be on

527
00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:44.819
the website, and as you will see on the website, it is topped with

528
00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:47.039
a yeti made out of crystalised ginger.

529
00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:49.920
And we've already whooped out.

530
00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:51.359
Yeah, so we'd rather enjoying that.

531
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:55.799
Is it is it the is it the ECSE or the or the weather?

532
00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:59.039
No, no, the well, it was pretty fat yet, although I couldn't

533
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.039
resist putting in eyes because I still had some couchos from my

534
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:03.240
teacher cushing treats.

535
00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:05.759
Now, abominable snowmen.

536
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:07.799
It's quite an interesting story.

537
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:09.420
It sounds beautiful.

538
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:10.619
Love this show.

539
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:11.940
No music, is there?

540
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.759
It's like a tone of it, the voice joke, because yeah, it's a so

541
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:15.180
new.

542
00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:16.920
I know this from the target novel.

543
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:19.680
Again, it's a ripper, and I think one of the reasons this season

544
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.819
is so well fondly remembered is that people of our generation, one

545
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:26.579
generation, grew up with these as target books, they didn't exist

546
00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:27.420
in any other form.

547
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:28.859
This is a scorcher.

548
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:32.279
It's one of the novels I've read.

549
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.579
I read as child, along with leather fear, which is probably even

550
00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:36.539
better, actually.

551
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:37.440
Yeah, absolutely.

552
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.380
The ending of that novel form was terrifying.

553
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:44.700
I mean, as you say, Richard, the soundscape in this one is

554
00:24:44.700 --> 00:24:45.660
absolutely amazing.

555
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.799
One of the great things is each of the main locations, you pretty

556
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:51.839
much got the mountain, you've got the cave, and you've got the

557
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.380
monastery.

558
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:57.960
Each of those has its own soundscape, the monastery sort of has a

559
00:24:57.960 --> 00:24:59.700
bit of an echo, usually has chanting in the background.

560
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.420
The mountain has that sort of ever-present wind and the cave has

561
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:06.059
the thrumming of the yeti spheres.

562
00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:09.960
It is such a texturally rich story in that way.

563
00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:12.000
It's also very rich in terms of character.

564
00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:15.480
You know, after we had the cliche characters of Tomb of the

565
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:15.960
Cybermen.

566
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:21.420
We have a collection of very complex supporting characters.

567
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.700
For the 1st couple of episodes.

568
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:28.619
Uh, you know, Creissong and Travellers sort of seem to be uh

569
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:30.420
taking the role of the villain between them.

570
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.740
But as the story goes on, they're actually given a bit of depth

571
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:36.420
and a bit of motivation to their actions.

572
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.579
Can we can we say who they are?

573
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:43.859
So Krisong is Norman Jones, who is Major Baker from the Siberia

574
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:48.240
and also Auronymus. where his goose lays adult eggs.

575
00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:49.380
Yes, from the mask.

576
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:51.900
He's cock froze 3 times before breakfast.

577
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:52.859
You get to see him do that.

578
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.640
And of course, Professor Travis, wonderful Professor Travis.

579
00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:58.500
The famous Jack Watling.

580
00:25:58.559 --> 00:25:58.859
Yes.

581
00:25:58.859 --> 00:26:00.180
Also the father.

582
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.039
The grandson of Jeffrey Watling.

583
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:04.380
It's really good to see.

584
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:07.619
And it was actually she who suggested him for the part, you know

585
00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:10.680
she was talking to some of the production stuff and there was this

586
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:15.119
role coming up for an explorer and adventurer and she said, well

587
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.980
you know, daddy's not doing anything at the moment.

588
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:17.880
How about you get him in?

589
00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:20.160
And he was a big coop because he was a big film actor.

590
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:26.099
And I have to say he's very handsome and swarthy, you know, he

591
00:26:26.099 --> 00:26:29.579
feels like the Indiana Jones of the 1960s.

592
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.940
This works because it's a stage production with stage act is

593
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:36.119
actually a lot of Welsh blokes and a few English ones pretending

594
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:37.500
to be Tibetan.

595
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:43.740
You got Jack doing that whole stagey, India, as you say, um, out

596
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:45.720
of quarter mate from Kicks on Spines.

597
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:48.420
This story, and I think this Doctor Who is doing that whole

598
00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:49.019
thing.

599
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.839
I actually think this whole season of Doctor Who is tapping in in

600
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.039
a tiny whining way to Nathan's randomiser and just putting in 3 or

601
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.460
4 ideas, pressing the button, you get 3 or 4 ideas each story.

602
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:04.440
So we just had Mummy's tombs, cybermen, robots, um, big black

603
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.400
Strong eye and ooh, did you forget your phone last story?

604
00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:10.859
Yes, yes, we got some phone shaving creeks.

605
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:12.119
That's right.

606
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.099
Oh, no, you get what we go machine.

607
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:15.119
It was cooked into the soup.

608
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:18.240
So this story we get default phone.

609
00:27:18.299 --> 00:27:19.619
Yes, we do.

610
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:21.180
We get...

611
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:24.900
The abominable snowman, the monster assist, but we also get these

612
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:28.440
lovely things of, like, I like that you mentioned Indiana Jones

613
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.380
because we're going back to what's another great adventure story

614
00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:32.160
we could lift off?

615
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:34.859
It's James Hilton's Lost Horizon from 1933.

616
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.440
Yeah, that's the famous Tibet fan.

617
00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:38.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

618
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.700
Listen to a really nice radio version that had actually Stuart

619
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:42.119
Head in it.

620
00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:43.799
Jurassic Dune show.

621
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:46.980
There's a, well, it's actually all based on a good show story, but

622
00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:49.920
he saw it was a good show that works really well like that.

623
00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:53.160
But again, this is this nice thing of I really like this period of

624
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.400
60s TV where you can just throw everything into the oven and see

625
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:56.880
what comes out.

626
00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.940
Do you think this is a successful story?

627
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.559
I do actually think it's very successful and part of what makes it

628
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:10.200
successful for me is it manages to play with expected roles.

629
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:17.339
For various groups of people with really only a very small cast of

630
00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:17.700
characters.

631
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:20.339
You do have a lot of supporting monks who get lines, but really

632
00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:23.460
the only ones are croissant and songstand, the Abbot.

633
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.500
Oh, and Tommy.

634
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:27.359
Oh, and Tommy, of course, Tommy.

635
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:31.619
For us, I do want to mention, Tommy is the late David Spencer, who

636
00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:36.180
passed away last year, life partner of one of the script editors

637
00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:37.680
the Doctor of Time Victor Penderton.

638
00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:38.819
I didn't know any of that.

639
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.380
I think he's terrific in this.

640
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.059
In the only episode we get to see.

641
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:44.759
This one's directed by Gerald Blake.

642
00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:50.039
Beautifully lit, is directed again, like a great British cafe film

643
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:50.880
of the 30s.

644
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:52.859
It has a really lovely feel at that period.

645
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:59.160
And it has enough confidence to say, we can remake this era. reshow

646
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.160
you this era of great film tradition and get it and do it right

647
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:03.119
and do it even better.

648
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:04.859
It's okay to be borrowing.

649
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:06.599
It's okay to be throwing things in.

650
00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:08.940
The audience didn't mind if they enjoyed it and recognised it.

651
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:10.500
I'm enjoying it for the same reason.

652
00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:15.599
Well, I got shown a film by a friend of the podcast, Robert. called

653
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:17.160
The Abominable Snowman.

654
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:20.160
Oh, yeah, and it starts me to Cushing.

655
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:21.059
We own it.

656
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:21.660
Yeah, yeah.

657
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.859
And it is Yeti attacking a monastery in Tibet.

658
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.359
And it's from a few years earlier.

659
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.640
I think it's from the sort of late 50s of town.

660
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.579
And so it's clearly, do you know what I mean?

661
00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:35.400
Like, again, it's Doctor Who's fantastic to see that one.

662
00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:38.339
So it is another example of Doctor Who sort of pondering popular

663
00:29:38.339 --> 00:29:40.440
culture and stuff and all that's very laudable.

664
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:42.539
That's exactly what we want the show to do.

665
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.660
But I have to say, again.

666
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:50.519
I can see the word tiresome heading inexorably towards this part

667
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:51.119
of the podcast.

668
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:53.519
Look, I mean, I sort of think it's okay.

669
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:57.900
I think it's laudable to do like a non-European thing for once.

670
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:01.319
Cree song actually looks like he might be Tibetan.

671
00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:03.900
No one else looks like there's...

672
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:05.220
Yeah, that's okay.

673
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.660
Yeah, it's a...

674
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.759
You see it more as rep theatre.

675
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:09.240
Yeah exactly.

676
00:30:09.299 --> 00:30:14.519
You know, thankfully they don't try to say do, if you like yellow

677
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:20.279
face, they put on, they put on a bit, a bit of makeup colour, but

678
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:24.119
you know, they don't try to approach it in a stereotypical.

679
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.960
Not Stan doesn't look like he's been anywhere sort of east of

680
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.140
except maybe Covent Garden, calling a couple of prize marrows.

681
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:32.819
Yeah, that's what I mean.

682
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.480
It could be like something that Doctor Who does later that's very

683
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:42.000
controversial and actually build up the brow and make narrower

684
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.059
eyes to make a Caucasian actor look Asian.

685
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:46.079
They wouldn't do that, sure.

686
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:46.980
No, no, no.

687
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:47.700
That's crazy.

688
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:50.759
And you see, that's actually why I quite like it because, you know

689
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.220
it does involve the suspension of disbelief.

690
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:58.680
But also you've got an inversion of gender roles, in my opinion.

691
00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:00.420
Now 1st of all, just on the surface level.

692
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.859
Victoria is wandering around in really quite masculine

693
00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:06.900
mountaineering gear, you know.

694
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.940
She's wearing a coat, she's wearing trousers.

695
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.740
Jamie's wearing a skirt and carrying a man bag.

696
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:13.200
I know, but she's cinched at the waist, you know what I mean?

697
00:31:13.259 --> 00:31:14.339
She's got a little fluffy thing.

698
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:17.819
She looks very Victorian. like this outfit a lot more. like her in

699
00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:18.000
this.

700
00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:19.980
Yeah, she's so proactive.

701
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:21.059
Again, she is.

702
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:21.839
I'm strong.

703
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:22.980
I love this.

704
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:27.539
She's got that sort of entitled European thing and you get it with

705
00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:31.259
Travis as well, where the monks kind of automatically defer to

706
00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:34.140
Travers, because he's an Englishman.

707
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:35.099
Big Whitey.

708
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.559
He's an Englishman and he's trustworthy.

709
00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:44.880
And she, like Victoria's kind of arrogates to herself the high

710
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.539
position that as a European, she sort of deserves.

711
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:51.660
And so like there is a sort of respect to the whole sort of

712
00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:52.440
Buddhist thing.

713
00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:55.740
No one, you know, openly makes fun of her or anything, but there

714
00:31:55.740 --> 00:32:01.680
is, there is a kind of, a sort of inadvertent, not racism exactly

715
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:04.559
but sort of Euro-centrism or a Victorian attitude.

716
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:05.160
Yeah.

717
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:06.000
Yeah, that's it.

718
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.559
It's a Victorian attitude to the...

719
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:11.039
But it's also harking back to that stronger writing, that period

720
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:11.460
right?

721
00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:13.920
This is a period, please, not from the 60s, but from the 30s.

722
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:16.200
Nathan, I know you're not convinced stressed by the fact that

723
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:17.400
Victoria's wearing trousers.

724
00:32:17.460 --> 00:32:18.599
So I am just going to buy this.

725
00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:20.099
Only you could see his face, listener.

726
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.140
He looks utterly convinced.

727
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:28.079
The other thing I want to talk about in terms of Victoria. is the

728
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.700
fact that she's such a strong driving force in the narrative.

729
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:37.019
It's Victoria, who is constantly trying to get in to see Pava

730
00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:38.400
Samovar and find out what's going on.

731
00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:40.859
Now, the thing is, it is padding because she drives about 3 times

732
00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:41.759
it keeps being driven away.

733
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:42.900
But she's pushing it.

734
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.980
Yeah, she's pushing it.

735
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:50.099
But it's actually the monk's dedication to their faith that keeps

736
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:50.400
her out.

737
00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:53.819
So in a way, even though she is trying to go against their

738
00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:54.299
traditions.

739
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:56.339
She does respect them because when she's caught, she's like, okay

740
00:32:56.339 --> 00:32:56.759
I'll back off.

741
00:32:56.819 --> 00:33:01.680
When they think she's revived the yeti, they're ready to sacrifice

742
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:01.920
her.

743
00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:05.819
You know, they're ready to put her out there with the yeti. let

744
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:06.420
them take her.

745
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.019
So, I mean, I don't think it's entirely there's a great white hope

746
00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:15.480
colonial. is kind of pulling the rug out from under that because

747
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.059
yes, Victoria does kind of back what she owns the place and then

748
00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:19.619
almost gets killed because of it.

749
00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:23.579
Victoria does lose some of the initiative in the last 2 episodes

750
00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:25.740
when she's hypnotised by Pamba Sambatore.

751
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.740
But the interest is... also quite interesting and threatening it

752
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:29.579
is. pretty good.

753
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.019
Yeah, it's very invasive.

754
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:33.839
And also, the doctor picks up that something is wrong with her

755
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.859
because she's panicking and screaming and the doctor's reaction is

756
00:33:37.859 --> 00:33:38.819
like, that's not Victoria.

757
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:41.460
Well, no, I mean, she repeats the same sentence with the same

758
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:42.960
intonation over and over again.

759
00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:45.000
It's a fairly characteristic sentence.

760
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:45.779
Do you know what I mean?

761
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.779
It's like, doctor, we must leave, whatever, but she's...

762
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:52.859
It's a great little note on what the season itself is doing, isn't

763
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:53.039
it?

764
00:33:53.220 --> 00:33:56.819
And Patrick's actually not buying a bar.

765
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:57.720
I like that.

766
00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:01.740
And the thing is when she sort of wakes up, she doesn't go, oh, it

767
00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:02.700
was horrible enough.

768
00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:05.039
She just kind of goes, oh, that was a bit weird.

769
00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:05.759
I'm very tired.

770
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:11.039
Yeah, I, I am continuing to think Victoria is great here and she

771
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:12.900
has a great relationship with Tommy.

772
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.719
It's actually Jamie, who throughout the whole story, the doctor

773
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:16.980
feels needs supervision.

774
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.300
And he's absolutely Victoria on her own to her own devices, but he

775
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:22.619
has to take Jamie with him.

776
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:26.639
And it sums up in that line in the existing 2nd episode of Doctor

777
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:28.380
I've got an idea for dealing with the yeti.

778
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:30.360
The doctor's responses, come along, Victoria.

779
00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:32.219
Discretion is the better part of ballot.

780
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:33.300
JB has an idea.

781
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.559
Isn't it a great?

782
00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:38.460
And it's not the only one that I, it's like the complete nettle

783
00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:45.179
break, breakdown joke in, to me. apologises.

784
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:45.539
Yeah.

785
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.119
We haven't mentioned the thing that's really great about this when

786
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:49.079
we talk about sound.

787
00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:50.400
Adam Sandoval.

788
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:51.599
Oh yes, that voice.

789
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:53.400
And the way that's lit.

790
00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:58.440
Both voices, of course, because he's always a pen in December, but

791
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.739
coming from the one actor, very subtle difference.

792
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:02.880
It's a beautiful.

793
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:03.960
It's really trippy.

794
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:06.360
And that's the other thing I wanted to say about this.

795
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:09.000
This is the whole Abby Hoffman, Alan Ginsberg.

796
00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:10.199
Woo, woo.

797
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:13.980
She asked the beginning of Timothy Leary, LSD stuff that's hitting

798
00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:15.539
Britain in popular culture.

799
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.420
Tibet was a big hot topic at the time.

800
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.079
Yes.

801
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.320
Not the history of, and because I'm really looking forward to what

802
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.320
you want to say about the history of at the time previously in

803
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:26.880
what was going on with Tibet politically.

804
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:29.820
But the English and the Yaks, and the Australians.

805
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.519
We're looking at this at Tibetan being, you know, the whole cock

806
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.480
counterculture period of what it is, consciousness, what it is to

807
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.340
be a person in the world, we were looking.

808
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:43.559
Towards Buddhism as a notion of transcendence.

809
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:46.380
How amazing is the great intelligence.

810
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:48.539
And we'll pick this up with web of fear.

811
00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:51.900
It exists in, and it's referred to in the novel and again in the

812
00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:53.639
audio, this in the script. it's in the scripts.

813
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:55.139
It exists in the astral plane.

814
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.559
Padma Samatha encountered the great intelligence on the astral

815
00:35:58.559 --> 00:35:59.820
plane where he's meditating.

816
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:03.840
It's an ancient sage head of the lamasary, and that brings this

817
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.519
evil to earth, without realising the consequences, just by meeting

818
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:10.079
this guy, this great mind.

819
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:12.599
The TARDIS encounters it within the vortex.

820
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:16.199
The vortex in Doctor Who is the astral plane.

821
00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:19.920
There's a whole lot of really wahippie woo woo great stuff.

822
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:22.440
Timothy Leary would have been watching this show and loving it.

823
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:25.079
And it goes back to something you said before about the time I

824
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.179
said, it can move through time space in different stages of matter

825
00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:28.320
and consciousness.

826
00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:30.420
What is the TARDIS?

827
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.260
Not that nervous song that we get when we start talking about what

828
00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:35.099
the TARDIS actually is.

829
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.460
Guilty, not so guilty pleasure.

830
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:42.059
This is my favourite story of the season because of the sound of

831
00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:43.619
lightscaping. from what we can see.

832
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.099
Again, I know it as a title book from that, but just the pace of

833
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:49.860
it, the feel of it, the antecedence of this story that I really

834
00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:50.159
love.

835
00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:55.260
I love the 1937 Frank Capra version of Lost Horizon that I would

836
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:58.800
be my pick of the of this podcast.

837
00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:01.920
It's useful, everything that Capra does.

838
00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:04.380
You might know him from, it's a wonderful life that everybody

839
00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:06.480
watches every day at Christmas and so he should.

840
00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:10.199
Because it actually makes Christmas sufferable if you're sitting

841
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.699
with your family at home.

842
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:17.519
It's that and it picks up on it beautifully.

843
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:19.139
And again, little moments.

844
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.420
So this isn't just a plot and characters.

845
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:22.079
It's lighting.

846
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:23.880
It sounds as we've said.

847
00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:25.199
It does all those other things.

848
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:26.219
Thank you, Gerald Blake.

849
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:27.000
It does it beautifully.

850
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:28.619
It holds beautifully.

851
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:30.360
People have a part to play.

852
00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:33.480
And those hats, the performance is so great.

853
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:37.019
Even those fantastic Mardi Gras, mango slice hats.

854
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.179
How great are the hats in this?

855
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.239
You don't need it, you don't need to get any.

856
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:44.039
Do you like a bit of an enemy of the world?

857
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:46.500
Look, I've known it longer.

858
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:47.639
I like them both.

859
00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:49.079
I like them both for very different reasons.

860
00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:51.719
It's Iamada who wrote Enemy of the World.

861
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:53.039
As an organisation, yes.

862
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:53.940
I love that as well.

863
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:54.840
But I was a little older.

864
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:57.840
So again, so much of Doctor Who is nostalgia when you 1st came to

865
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:58.860
it for me.

866
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.039
Yeah, actually, because of the antecedents, because of the Capra

867
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:03.480
film, because of what it does so well.

868
00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:06.119
I would actually say it is my favourite of the season.

869
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:09.360
Is this the 1st pseudo-historical?

870
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:10.739
Oh I like that.

871
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.119
No, that would be time.

872
00:38:12.179 --> 00:38:12.599
Yeah, yeah.

873
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:15.840
The time they like, I mean, the time they But yes, because it's

874
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.980
really playing with golf.

875
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:18.840
Well, I think the time it was special.

876
00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:19.619
Do you know what I mean?

877
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:24.119
It is clearly like a historical that you drop another timeload

878
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:24.780
into and stuff.

879
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.719
But this is just, you know, the 1st time the past has been invaded

880
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:28.380
by aliens.

881
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:29.820
Normally if we've gone to the past.

882
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:31.739
We just have people.

883
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.099
But now it's the 1st time that the past is invaded by aliens.

884
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:36.719
And maybe that's another reason.

885
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:37.199
Thank you.

886
00:38:37.260 --> 00:38:41.280
Because this is the template of how to do New Doctor Who.

887
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:43.440
I said, oh, just throwing Queen Victoria.

888
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.659
And you've got, honestly, actually, she would have been a bit long

889
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:46.739
in the tooth by now, wouldn't she?

890
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.239
She's going for...

891
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:52.980
She's going for... and Edward the 8th. and you've got, and George

892
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:53.460
the 6th.

893
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:55.920
So you've really, you've pretty much all, just, yeah, you've got

894
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.019
the werewolves in the...

895
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.440
Aren't they yeti just incredibly stupid looking?

896
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:03.539
Are they the worst northern?

897
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:04.079
Yes or no?

898
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:06.179
Oh yeah, I don't think that's stupid looking at all.

899
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.719
I think it's more a matter of appearance for line function.

900
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:10.320
Yeah.

901
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:13.500
They look cute, but then they do all 4 things.

902
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:16.619
And I like that it's the whole thing of the reason why in later

903
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:20.340
stories you get children's toys being quite threatening as we

904
00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:22.619
really jump into the next level in Doctor Who.

905
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:23.639
We're still at the stage.

906
00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:26.039
This is the 1st time we see something benign and cubby looking

907
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:26.880
actually being terrifying.

908
00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:29.940
Is it of air shaped and featureless spaces and stuff?

909
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.400
I mean, I notice you're looking at me when you say it.

910
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:33.360
No, no, no.

911
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.159
I'm a bit pear shaped.

912
00:39:35.219 --> 00:39:35.519
Anyway.

913
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:37.860
Yeah, it's all going a bit.

914
00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:44.159
I think my big objection to this season as a whole is we just

915
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.940
cycle between 3 groups of terrible things.

916
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:50.039
Yeah, you know what?

917
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:52.860
I think that may be true, but I think the more important thing is

918
00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:54.780
what is done with those ideas.

919
00:39:54.840 --> 00:40:00.059
I just feel that even though we may have variations on a theme

920
00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:03.900
this season, the important thing lies in the variations we get.

921
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.860
And that's something I'd like to discuss next, which is the whole

922
00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:08.639
setting of this story.

923
00:40:08.699 --> 00:40:12.840
The writers decided to set it into bet, but not to bet in the

924
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:13.320
modern day.

925
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:15.780
That is only to set it into better 30s.

926
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:19.860
Those of you don't know, depending on your perspective, Tibet is a

927
00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:23.400
part of China or at the very least subject to Chinese rule and

928
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:24.000
jurisdiction.

929
00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:25.139
However...

930
00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:28.500
I don't even stick to the podcasts or whatever. yeah.

931
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:29.760
At the time.

932
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:31.139
At the time, this story was set.

933
00:40:31.139 --> 00:40:33.059
We need to support them, though, don't we?

934
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:36.719
Tibet was in the middle of roughly 50 years of de facto

935
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:37.380
independence.

936
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:41.159
They weren't exactly a sovereign independence state, but the

937
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:46.139
Chinese government of the time didn't really bother with them.

938
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:51.719
However, In 1951 China said, no, you are a part of our country.

939
00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:57.059
In 1966, the year before this story, the China underwent the

940
00:40:57.059 --> 00:40:58.199
cultural revolution.

941
00:40:58.260 --> 00:41:02.699
And as part of that, not so much Chinese forces into it, but more

942
00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:06.780
Tibetan forces, sympathetic to the Chinese rule, started

943
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:09.360
ransacking and attacking the monasteries.

944
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:13.800
And especially lots of reports of Buddhist statues being walled

945
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:14.099
down.

946
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:18.659
And of course, what do we see in abominable snowmen, but when the

947
00:41:18.659 --> 00:41:23.340
1st bottle snowman gains access to the monastery.

948
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:27.420
They pull down the Buddha statue, crushing one of the monks to

949
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:27.840
death.

950
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:29.519
That's a bit horrible.

951
00:41:29.579 --> 00:41:33.360
It's terrific commentary on what is going on, yeah?

952
00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:35.460
Yeah, I mean, are the writers?

953
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:40.139
I'm not showing the idea of Chinese communism in the great

954
00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:40.739
intelligence.

955
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:45.480
There was a lot of fear of China mentioned Nigerian Canada before

956
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:49.019
as being the greater threat than Mother Russia at this period.

957
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:50.280
So yeah, why not?

958
00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:53.400
I think that decision was probably very conscious.

959
00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:56.519
Henry Lincoln, real name are Henry Soskin.

960
00:41:56.579 --> 00:42:00.119
He was a huge researcher into mythologies of various types.

961
00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:03.659
He's actually credited with being one of the authors of a book

962
00:42:03.659 --> 00:42:07.920
which Dan Brown based the da Vinci code upon. interesting.

963
00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:12.539
So we get another source of Joseph Campbell, an apotheosis in the

964
00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:13.199
story as well.

965
00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:14.519
So you can see a few of those.

966
00:42:14.579 --> 00:42:15.300
That's true.

967
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:17.400
And just a little bit of trivia.

968
00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:21.179
Henry Lincoln was also an actor as well as a writer, and getting 2

969
00:42:21.179 --> 00:42:22.380
episodes of the Avengers.

970
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.840
He was in an episode called Defella Cunt as the leader of an Arab

971
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:28.679
country.

972
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:31.320
And he ate everyone else.

973
00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:35.219
He had a wonderful rapport with her on a black moon in that

974
00:42:35.219 --> 00:42:35.519
episode.

975
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:36.900
It's quite a favourite of mine.

976
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:37.920
So there we are.

977
00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:43.079
So at the very end, it turns out that Padma Sandovar, under the

978
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:49.019
control of great intelligence, has built a giant 60s style, like a

979
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:51.360
science fiction control room.

980
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:54.179
And this is something that the great intelligence inspires people

981
00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:54.659
to do.

982
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:59.039
And so, you know, the whole end of it is inexplicably, you know

983
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:04.500
we've been in 1935 in Tibet and then suddenly we jump into this

984
00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:07.380
sort of ludicrous modern sort of control.

985
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.400
I mean, the whole thing just seems, but yet he is so thin.

986
00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:13.500
Like, why, why are they robot?

987
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:18.179
yes It's a great intelligence that can possess, you know, Padma

988
00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:24.000
Sambova, um, and there are actual yeti available in, as we

989
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.360
discover.

990
00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:25.199
Thank you, though.

991
00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:29.760
The spheres, the yeti control spheres, as we're totally against us

992
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:33.360
they're about to become and reduced in the next yearly story.

993
00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:36.960
They seem to be containing nothing more than chi, but they don't

994
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.059
actually have any things in a mechanism.

995
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:40.559
Yeah, they're so light.

996
00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:41.639
There can't be anything in it.

997
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:47.099
I see them as a really interesting link between this corporeality

998
00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:49.320
and the vortex and the astral plane.

999
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:54.539
Because the science-y stuff behind it is totally...

1000
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.940
Hey, Ashbury, essay.

1001
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:00.539
I must say, said, I mean, San Francisco.

1002
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.539
But I do think it backs off from that.

1003
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:07.199
I think that I think that it doesn't want to be too kind of

1004
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:11.159
spiritual and too kind of, like it's it's Doctor Who, so they have

1005
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:12.239
to be crap robots.

1006
00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:13.619
I think it comes in though.

1007
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.380
And I think the control room's the same thing.

1008
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:17.340
Do you know what I mean?

1009
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.239
A little, we flirt with pyramids, we flirt with, you know, the

1010
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:25.199
control things, but essentially, like it turns into a sort of

1011
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:26.579
tiresome science fiction.

1012
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:28.500
James Bondigoo.

1013
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:29.400
Yeah, absolutely.

1014
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:33.659
And like the tube of the cybermen sets were very 10 Adam.

1015
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:35.219
And this is Ken Adam as well.

1016
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.500
You know, you've got to have a giant control room to blow up at

1017
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:37.739
the end.

1018
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.599
And yes, maybe that is tiresome tropes coming into action.

1019
00:44:42.659 --> 00:44:44.639
It's also 1967.

1020
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:46.260
I really love 1967.

1021
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:47.940
That's the thing.

1022
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:51.360
It's also a matter of, yeah, you know, it's happiness cliche, but

1023
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:52.440
you still enjoy it.

1024
00:44:52.500 --> 00:44:56.159
It's a bit like, yeah, I know pizza's bad for me, but I still

1025
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:56.579
enjoy it.

1026
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:59.579
An area is doing even more so.

1027
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.679
It just that we're too close to it to look at it.

1028
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:02.820
Well, absolutely.

1029
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:07.079
Absolutely You know, everyone kind of said, why aren't there why

1030
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:09.599
aren't there commentaries for every episode on the new Doctor Who

1031
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:10.260
box sets?

1032
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:13.380
Because the ones they release in 20 years' time when Christopher

1033
00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:16.619
Eccleston can actually say why he left are going to be far more

1034
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.780
interesting than anything he would record right now.

1035
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:20.699
You know?

1036
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:23.219
I want to hear Russell say by Christopher Eagleston there.

1037
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.099
There are several versions. picked it already.

1038
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.760
Just before we move on, there's also something I noticed in this

1039
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:31.139
which is just me being cheating.

1040
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.940
We have an insidious and duclicitous abbot turning good people

1041
00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:39.659
cynical and violent by the use of self manufactured threats.

1042
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:43.019
This really is a story for all times, including our own.

1043
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.400
And there's only one woman in the cast.

1044
00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:52.320
She sits comfortably on a front bench.

1045
00:45:52.380 --> 00:45:57.659
Listen, I would like point out that this is very hollow.

1046
00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:09.719
The wailing of the ice there, rather than over us than being in

1047
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:12.719
the ice and going whaling can only be, it's time for the ice

1048
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:13.800
warriors.

1049
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:22.320
Please do not adjust your sense. right Anyone who has an axolotle

1050
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.400
with a tank, right?

1051
00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:25.860
sitting around on its back right now, wouldn't it?

1052
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.599
I'm sorry, we're all just 5 years old.

1053
00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:29.760
How good is that opening?

1054
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:31.739
Again, this thing.

1055
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.820
Yeah, we're back on a base under siege, a cottage under siege, and

1056
00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:39.179
it's just that you change the slides and it's going to look

1057
00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:41.519
completely different and have different plays, but that's the

1058
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:41.760
point.

1059
00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:45.840
When you get to the details, how whacked is this story?

1060
00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:47.579
And thank you, Dudley Simpson.

1061
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:51.360
We just had, oh, it's his play on Vaughan Williams and Antarctic

1062
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.659
isn't it, that we just heard then with the sound of the ice, isn't

1063
00:46:54.659 --> 00:46:54.840
it?

1064
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:58.739
this is the opening, like all the time, but in the opening crest.

1065
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.539
Yes, yes. you get you get that.

1066
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.980
And Dully's really letting everything out for this again.

1067
00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:09.480
There's so much in this, it's like, I like, I like costumes, I

1068
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:10.380
like, the look of it.

1069
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:11.219
I love the sound.

1070
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:14.820
Um, actually, the characterisations.

1071
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.099
What's going on between the characters and this is amazing.

1072
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:20.760
So what we've got is TARDIS appears, the 1st, is it the 1st time

1073
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:21.780
on the side?

1074
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:22.440
Yes.

1075
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:23.519
On that side.

1076
00:47:23.579 --> 00:47:24.300
Bang, there you go.

1077
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:29.400
That deal was a was a cider-man falling onto a cake plate.

1078
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:31.980
Because I'm deciding more ginger cake.

1079
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:34.440
So we're playing around with what it does and we're doing it

1080
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:34.800
really well.

1081
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:38.219
We're in, um, what appears to be an ice globe.

1082
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:40.619
Turns out to be the far future.

1083
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.719
When is it 3000?

1084
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.300
Oh, it's always the year two, three, or something, something

1085
00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:46.440
something, something, something, something, something, something

1086
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:47.280
that, isn't it?

1087
00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:47.760
Yeah.

1088
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:49.320
Actually, no, it's not the U 5,000.

1089
00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:50.219
Yes, it is.

1090
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.880
I think it's 3000.

1091
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:54.480
Yep, yeah, 30th century.

1092
00:47:54.539 --> 00:47:58.380
Well, we know we're in the 30th century, not just the sound, but

1093
00:47:58.380 --> 00:47:59.039
because of the sound.

1094
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:00.840
Not of the frocks.

1095
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:02.340
Look at what everyone's wearing.

1096
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:03.239
Oh, really?

1097
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:04.559
We haven't even got there yet.

1098
00:48:04.619 --> 00:48:07.079
We're still on the ice flows and we've got that beautiful sound.

1099
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:08.519
We find a lovely big bubble.

1100
00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:12.599
We've got an interesting Georgian house. sitting under a dome and

1101
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.519
then we realised, hang on, they wouldn't be building those in the

1102
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:15.539
Antarctic, will we?

1103
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:19.260
But it's actually more like we haven't got to Zardors yet.

1104
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:22.260
That's Sean Connery's rock in a in a jockstrap.

1105
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:23.219
That's 1972.

1106
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.500
That was amazing. that.

1107
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:27.300
That's a go-to.

1108
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.000
But we're actually, why are we in a Georgian house?

1109
00:48:30.059 --> 00:48:34.320
And why suddenly everybody dressed as, and not even the girls from

1110
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.559
the moon base in Jerry Anderson's UFO because that's still 3 years

1111
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:37.860
off.

1112
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.000
We're 9067.

1113
00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:40.980
We're in a disco in Paris.

1114
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:45.659
But the costumes apparently, um, Based on printed circuits, is the

1115
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:50.159
same. reason that the when we finally get into the ice warrior

1116
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:53.400
ship, they've got those little groovy printed circuit layouts

1117
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.760
simply because they're using G-claps instead of hand.

1118
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:58.619
So it's all they can play with.

1119
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:01.739
But we're actually hanging out in a Georgian house, as the rock

1120
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:05.400
starts at the time did, with Mick Jagger and George Harrison, they

1121
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:06.420
both just bought one.

1122
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.480
We're good to see Mix House in Pyramid of Mars in years. time.

1123
00:49:09.539 --> 00:49:12.659
It's not just this thing is not just Sonic power.

1124
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:13.679
It's supersonic.

1125
00:49:13.739 --> 00:49:15.900
This season we get Sonic.

1126
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.179
We get Sonic disrupted weapons in this one, don't we?

1127
00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:19.079
How fantastic.

1128
00:49:19.139 --> 00:49:21.659
And then we get a lovely little fanboy that it's actually, do you

1129
00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:23.639
know how they made the guns work for the ice Warriors?

1130
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:24.960
It's Miralong.

1131
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:27.360
Yes, it is Miron, which is thin Myla.

1132
00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:31.860
The stuff that Warhol had just wrapped his factory in that is and

1133
00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:35.760
made all those big helium silver balloons for his PC walls, I was

1134
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.460
like his favourite colour is silver because everything's reflected

1135
00:49:38.460 --> 00:49:38.760
in it.

1136
00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:40.920
It's meaningless and it's completely thin.

1137
00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:46.079
You might want to say that's the plotline of each story we're

1138
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:48.119
getting this season, but I think that would be unfair.

1139
00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:50.699
Well, potentially unfair.

1140
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.119
But yeah, a stage hand would gently, very gently stand behind.

1141
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:59.159
The little silver mirror thing and gently brush against the

1142
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:01.139
artist's reflection.

1143
00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:02.159
No, distorted the list.

1144
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:03.780
Yes, there's a metaphor.

1145
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:05.400
Yeah, it's almost like mercury.

1146
00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:09.059
And I actually think, you know, the set that you've alluded to, the

1147
00:50:09.059 --> 00:50:13.980
reason that we're in a Georgian house and it has like a fantastic

1148
00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:18.300
sort of candelabra chandelier thing on the on the roof.

1149
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:20.699
And then immediately under it is...

1150
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:22.980
Royce Elson was a giant computer.

1151
00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:24.119
It is true.

1152
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:25.860
Roy Skelton's.

1153
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:29.880
And the computer is hugely, hugely important thematically here

1154
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:35.579
because and so maybe the contrast between the Georgian house and

1155
00:50:35.579 --> 00:50:39.179
the computer is sort of thematically important in that.

1156
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:44.820
We're about, you know, the past versus scientific progress.

1157
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:49.860
And so the 3 main characters who are leader clans in a sort of

1158
00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:54.599
ludicrous outfit of Miss Garrett, in a glamorously ludicrous

1159
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:59.880
outfit, and then Penley do is Wallace and Gromis, or just maybe

1160
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:00.900
one umbrellas.

1161
00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:01.800
And store.

1162
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:02.880
Angus Lenny.

1163
00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:05.699
Yeah, to turn up as Angus.

1164
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.059
But the even in terror of the cycles, yeah.

1165
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:12.480
And but the 3 characters, you know, those 3 characters were bass

1166
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:16.619
personnel and they and yeah, Angus, they all represent sort of

1167
00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:18.119
different attitudes towards that.

1168
00:51:18.179 --> 00:51:23.099
So Miss Garrett and Lita Clinton are will do whatever the computer

1169
00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:23.760
says.

1170
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:28.739
Poor old Angus is terrified of everything that's got to do with

1171
00:51:28.739 --> 00:51:32.099
anything to do with technology and all those scientific things.

1172
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:36.840
Um, and then you've got penley who's rejected the computer thing

1173
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:42.179
wants to live like a person, isn't quite as crazy as, as store, uh

1174
00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:45.239
and, and it's those people and they, well, acted.

1175
00:51:45.300 --> 00:51:46.320
I mean, it's Peter...

1176
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:48.360
Peter Barkworth, Peter Salis.

1177
00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:50.760
Peter Salis, a coup on podcast.

1178
00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:53.940
They didn't expect to be able to get Buckworth for this.

1179
00:51:54.300 --> 00:51:55.320
They asked him and he just turned up.

1180
00:51:55.380 --> 00:52:00.119
They didn't expect to be able to get Bernard Breslaw as Varga, but

1181
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:02.219
he was able to turn up and do it.

1182
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.260
Well, he was a big film star.

1183
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:05.639
He was actually to carry on.

1184
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.340
He was in the middle of carry-on doctor while he was doing this

1185
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:11.159
which is the one where he drags up as the nurse.

1186
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:12.900
Have you seen it?

1187
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.300
It's also got Peter Gilmour, whom we own.

1188
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:19.800
But Peter Gilmore and Barber Windsor also commit the abominable

1189
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:20.940
joke of the century.

1190
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:22.079
I've seen over in that film.

1191
00:52:22.139 --> 00:52:23.760
What number of wins are we own?

1192
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:24.420
Have I said that before?

1193
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:25.440
Well, we do.

1194
00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:26.699
Yeah, Mark Paul.

1195
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:28.079
Yeah, yeah, I know.

1196
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:32.820
This, to me, is just Christmas I am 67 all over. really is.

1197
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:35.400
Peter Bark was just hams and caps it up.

1198
00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:38.400
This story, honestly, I love it, but I really do like it because

1199
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:42.119
it's not just about blokes in a suit, Bernard Breslaw's costume is

1200
00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:44.639
equally way out and hoopy.

1201
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:49.199
And instead of being sent off to see Sandra Reed or Daphne Dare in

1202
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:49.739
their cupboard.

1203
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:51.239
He sent off to a shipyard.

1204
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.199
Did you know that?

1205
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:56.340
The costume is actually built by boat builders out of timber

1206
00:52:56.340 --> 00:53:01.320
framing and fibreglass and he's standing in his outfit, fibreglass

1207
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:05.579
and leathery, leathery, fluffy bits around his joints, dripping

1208
00:53:05.579 --> 00:53:05.880
out.

1209
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:10.260
I swear to you, a pint of sweat, an owl.

1210
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:11.400
Can you imagine?

1211
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:13.500
how much that would go for now, though?

1212
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.099
searching a Toby job. to show hand, it was coloured lovely and

1213
00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:17.940
more emerald green.

1214
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:20.039
There were only just a couple of months too early for St.

1215
00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:20.639
Patrick's Day.

1216
00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:25.800
He's the one who in the in rehearsals came up with the voice and

1217
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:29.400
came up with the other mannerisms of them and making them to be

1218
00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:30.780
like the space lizards.

1219
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:35.039
And the love, that's... which we don't get ever again.

1220
00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:36.840
We don't get the weak whacko head turning.

1221
00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:41.159
But this thing for me, the reason I like it is he also, with the

1222
00:53:41.159 --> 00:53:45.780
bloke who was playing Zondal, developed more of genuine characters

1223
00:53:45.780 --> 00:53:50.099
and genuine identities for these players, this is a show about

1224
00:53:50.099 --> 00:53:53.820
love triangles, pause for reflection.

1225
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:58.320
These songs, we talk about Russell having introduced the soaps of

1226
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:02.880
the ideas of Romance in Doctor Who.

1227
00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:03.420
This is it.

1228
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:07.320
You've got Zwaga and Zondal having, I think, kind of difficult

1229
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:11.099
post-frozen relationship and sorting that out.

1230
00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:14.039
You think I've got the extraordinary love story, love triangle

1231
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:19.619
story between Penley, leader clans, or come on, and and when do

1232
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:20.099
you give it?

1233
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:22.800
I thought you were going to say Henley leader cleans on the

1234
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:23.039
computer.

1235
00:54:23.099 --> 00:54:26.639
Well, that's all your aspects of the same thing and the reason the

1236
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:28.019
relationships don't work.

1237
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:30.599
But you know, this is the 1st time it's actually hinted at, that

1238
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:34.739
when they give this part and so Clint had the past, they did have

1239
00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:35.579
a relationship.

1240
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:36.119
Yeah.

1241
00:54:36.179 --> 00:54:40.139
No, I thought it was Penley and No, no, no, it's a claim to her

1242
00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:42.599
because she she goes to see Penley.

1243
00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:46.380
Remember when he's in the botanical museum and begs him to come

1244
00:54:46.380 --> 00:54:47.099
back?

1245
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:50.579
Because of her affection and relationship.

1246
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.820
Gareth and Clint, Gareth and Clint did have a relationship.

1247
00:54:53.820 --> 00:54:55.320
And it's in the script notes.

1248
00:54:55.980 --> 00:54:56.639
The normalisation.

1249
00:54:57.840 --> 00:54:59.219
Yeah.

1250
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:00.239
Yeah.

1251
00:55:01.019 --> 00:55:06.960
And then you've got Penley is the discarded trying to create a

1252
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:07.800
whole new life with this.

1253
00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:09.719
Oh, no, I'm trying to find someone who's completely different from

1254
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:12.659
you, Clint. going to find someone who's natural and real and into

1255
00:55:12.659 --> 00:55:15.960
the outdoors and needs to start swingy, whiney things.

1256
00:55:16.019 --> 00:55:19.559
If he made an old thing, he's smelling of the chewing oil, and of

1257
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:21.900
course, he's completely gone off him and comes home in the end.

1258
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:24.659
Yeah, the friend is a dysfunctional gay couple since Bert

1259
00:55:24.659 --> 00:55:25.139
learning.

1260
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:25.860
Exactly.

1261
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:29.159
In store. you know, it's a rebound relationship.

1262
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:29.760
That's the thing.

1263
00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:31.739
It should have been, it should have stuck to what they knew.

1264
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:32.280
I'm sorry.

1265
00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:33.300
When do you give it?

1266
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:36.360
I really feel so more sorry for Miss Garrett, because she's the

1267
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:40.139
one, but she's the too hot trophy wife in all of these, when you

1268
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:44.519
get boys of this level, like Lita Clans, who's completely

1269
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:45.780
emotionally unavailable.

1270
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:48.360
I'm sorry, it was her thought for marrying into careers.

1271
00:55:48.539 --> 00:55:51.960
Too hot trophy wise left to look long, you know, just looking

1272
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.139
warmly spectacular where I'm wearing a plastic clipboard over a

1273
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:55.739
face.

1274
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:56.880
That is weird.

1275
00:55:56.940 --> 00:56:00.420
That's the clickboard over. if dropped You probably feeling a

1276
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:00.780
bit...

1277
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:02.159
It was the only thing that's doing the glass.

1278
00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:04.380
Yeah, why not?

1279
00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:05.159
That's what she's wearing.

1280
00:56:05.219 --> 00:56:06.659
See, why not?

1281
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:09.840
See, I actually, I actually think, you know, she had a thing for

1282
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.780
him, but she's just so over it now because they're both so

1283
00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:13.320
ridiculous.

1284
00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:17.400
You know, both Clint and Penley are just so ridiculous.

1285
00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:22.800
She's like the gray spy in the spy versus spy on it.

1286
00:56:22.860 --> 00:56:25.440
You know, while the boys are fighting, she'll make off with the

1287
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:25.679
plans.

1288
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:27.780
Yeah, she is.

1289
00:56:28.619 --> 00:56:30.840
What else can we say about?

1290
00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:32.760
Look, you're talking about casual races?

1291
00:56:32.820 --> 00:56:34.199
They're good to stick out boxes.

1292
00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:35.519
I think instead of anti-Martian?

1293
00:56:35.579 --> 00:56:37.079
I think it's really appalling in this one.

1294
00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:40.199
No, because Victoria doesn't have much to do and I think I think

1295
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:43.260
it's Victoria is a character, probably her weakest story.

1296
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.119
Well, and he's wobbled.

1297
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:47.519
She does a lot of being dragged along by this.

1298
00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:49.980
Although she drove, although, because Burna Bristol is actually

1299
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:51.840
quite short-sighted and couldn't see or hear anything.

1300
00:56:51.900 --> 00:56:56.159
She drags him alive, you know, but she's absolutely desperate not

1301
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:58.500
to go to Africa, the racist.

1302
00:56:58.559 --> 00:56:59.639
Oh, she's not.

1303
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:02.639
Africa. becauses cannibals and do know?

1304
00:57:02.699 --> 00:57:03.840
Tipsy flies.

1305
00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:05.519
The words we can't say on the BBC.

1306
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:06.599
And it's...

1307
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:07.679
No, we can save them on the BBC.

1308
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:11.280
We don't use, we can't say boys.

1309
00:57:11.340 --> 00:57:14.699
She kind of written 1984 unless she's got a copy of it in the

1310
00:57:14.699 --> 00:57:15.300
TARDIS.

1311
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:19.079
Um, you know, she's just, it's just pretty awful.

1312
00:57:19.139 --> 00:57:20.219
And what does Jamie do?

1313
00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:22.440
It's not about them.

1314
00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:24.000
That's why that's why it's good.

1315
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:28.380
At the time, TV shows that were really hot and successful.

1316
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:30.840
And the reason I think this one is so well remembered and yet

1317
00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:34.800
looking at it now, it's a bit flat is because at the time this

1318
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:35.519
sparkled.

1319
00:57:35.579 --> 00:57:39.539
And really good TV drama was people being shouting at each other

1320
00:57:39.539 --> 00:57:44.340
over high tech banks, in control rooms, doing serious space.

1321
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:46.260
This was, wow, this is real life.

1322
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:49.619
We're getting, we move beyond the entire style of Billy's

1323
00:57:49.619 --> 00:57:53.880
naturalism, which to us is very stagey, to this new level of

1324
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:56.519
compact door, the, you know, the hot slopes of the time.

1325
00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:59.699
Oddly enough, you've just described 24 as well.

1326
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:02.699
People shouting over high tech.

1327
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:03.300
Yeah.

1328
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:06.900
Can I just say that one of the things that sets this apart, though

1329
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:11.159
from, say, modern Doctor Who, apart from the fact that it's 400

1330
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:19.199
hours, is, yeah, it is, um, that you've got such a strong theme, uh

1331
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:22.199
among the human beings and with the computer in the middle of the

1332
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:22.380
room.

1333
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:24.780
And the characters are really well drawn.

1334
00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:25.500
Do you know what I mean?

1335
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:28.500
They're not, like, everyone says, you know, Clint has a printed

1336
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:30.960
circuit where his art should be, but he doesn't really.

1337
00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:33.719
He's actually, you know, quite human things.

1338
00:58:33.780 --> 00:58:34.800
He's very emotional.

1339
00:58:34.860 --> 00:58:37.500
Very much afraid of what's going on and playing it by the book

1340
00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:40.320
because he fears he doesn't have the imagination.

1341
00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:43.800
And that's why his relationship with Miss Garrett didn't work

1342
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:44.039
out.

1343
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:46.440
I notice it's never, it's always miscarrett.

1344
00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:48.480
They really isolate her sexuality in this.

1345
00:58:48.539 --> 00:58:52.139
So we've got this strong sort of thematic thing going.

1346
00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:55.500
But the monsters and the threat have nothing at all to do with

1347
00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:56.099
it.

1348
00:58:56.219 --> 00:58:59.460
No, it's only it's only who's going through a divorce at the

1349
00:58:59.460 --> 00:59:00.000
time.

1350
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:01.440
No, no, it doesn't matter what they look like.

1351
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:05.039
I mean, what I mean is that if you've got this thing about sort of

1352
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:10.860
computers and you've got this thing about sort of natural life and

1353
00:59:10.860 --> 00:59:15.000
you've got, you've got, um, yeah, is it the 1st environmentalist

1354
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:15.900
Doctor Who story?

1355
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:18.539
No, no, that environmentalism thing is absolute rubbish.

1356
00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:19.199
I mean, look at it.

1357
00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:23.579
It's like they cut down all the trees, fields, to build, you know

1358
00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:27.780
living units for the human beings and mysteriously because we all

1359
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.599
know that plants produce carbon dioxide.

1360
00:59:31.380 --> 00:59:34.619
There's no more carbon dioxide in the thing, so we all...

1361
00:59:34.619 --> 00:59:35.940
So they get rid of all the plants.

1362
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:37.260
So they get rid of all the plants.

1363
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.320
Instead of that releasing a whole lot of carbon dioxide into the

1364
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:43.619
air and causing global warming, It stops there being carbon

1365
00:59:43.619 --> 00:59:47.639
dioxide and it causes a nice space science.

1366
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:50.639
The monsters need to be cybermen.

1367
00:59:50.699 --> 00:59:51.179
Do you know what I mean?

1368
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:53.099
Well, they kind of are.

1369
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:58.380
But do you because it's all about logic versus human instinct?

1370
00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:02.340
That the human beings win when they start to ignore the computer

1371
01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:03.420
and take risks?

1372
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:04.380
Do you know what I mean?

1373
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.039
So thematically, it's all about, it's all about sort of logic

1374
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:09.000
versus instinct.

1375
01:00:09.059 --> 01:00:11.159
It's all about science versus sort of nature.

1376
01:00:11.219 --> 01:00:17.579
But then, So the side men are kind of a natural, fit thematically

1377
01:00:17.579 --> 01:00:18.300
for the story.

1378
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:22.920
And originally in sort of earlier drafts, the Martians were more

1379
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:25.800
explicitly sideboard.

1380
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:28.679
And they said, well, that's too much like cybermen, we need to put

1381
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:31.920
them in a different sort of stupid fibreglass outfit.

1382
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.260
And so we'll put them in sort of lizard things.

1383
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:38.039
But that does seem to sort of destroy the kind of thematic unity

1384
01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:38.519
of the story.

1385
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:44.280
I still can't help thinking, this is a very well performed and

1386
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:45.659
well characterised one.

1387
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:49.980
It's got a sterling cast. an A gray TV cast for the time.

1388
01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:55.860
But it's just another base under siege and it is exhausting and

1389
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:57.300
the monsters are stupid.

1390
01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:00.119
Forgive me, that's kind of beside the point because that's the

1391
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:02.039
that's the ruin the headlight scene of this season.

1392
01:01:02.099 --> 01:01:03.420
We know that's what it is.

1393
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:08.280
It's what they then do to play around that. and actually make it

1394
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:11.940
more interesting within that steady concrete structure that makes

1395
01:01:11.940 --> 01:01:14.280
it interesting and diverting to watch.

1396
01:01:14.340 --> 01:01:16.139
And that's why I find this one interesting.

1397
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:19.980
I would have thought because you're our heart and all guy.

1398
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:21.239
Do you know what I mean?

1399
01:01:21.300 --> 01:01:25.559
That you would be, by this point, hugely missing the variety of

1400
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:31.019
things that Doctor Who can do, that we saw it do in its 1st 2

1401
01:01:31.019 --> 01:01:31.260
years.

1402
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:35.340
And it's like, oh, you know, here's another room full of white

1403
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:38.519
people being threatened by aliens in stupid outfits.

1404
01:01:38.579 --> 01:01:39.719
But we know that's what it's doing.

1405
01:01:39.780 --> 01:01:41.099
What, Brendan, what are you?

1406
01:01:41.099 --> 01:01:45.420
See, I've got to agree with Richard, Nathan, because these price

1407
01:01:45.420 --> 01:01:47.579
the other thing is not what the threat is.

1408
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:49.860
The important thing is that human reaction to it.

1409
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.679
Now, yeah, we could have had a start moving the story and the

1410
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:56.159
whole thing would have been about man versus machine, you know

1411
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:57.960
logic versus emotion.

1412
01:01:58.019 --> 01:02:01.019
But that is just instead part of the story.

1413
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:05.579
The bigger story here is do we need an alien threat to wipe this

1414
01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:07.440
out or are we just going to wipe ourselves out?

1415
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.599
Because there's 2 threats to overcome in this story.

1416
01:02:09.659 --> 01:02:13.980
The 1st threat to overcome is humanity wiping itself out through

1417
01:02:13.980 --> 01:02:17.280
action or inaction and not knowing what the right thing is, but

1418
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:18.420
following your instincts.

1419
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.179
And then the other threat is, okay, how do we deal from an

1420
01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:22.260
external threat?

1421
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:25.199
It's continuing the idea of self-actualisation from the previous

1422
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:25.619
story.

1423
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:30.300
Humanity has to grow up in itself and accept its own differences

1424
01:02:30.300 --> 01:02:32.340
and stop trying to homogenise everything.

1425
01:02:32.460 --> 01:02:36.360
Otherwise, we're going to become like these homogenised lizard

1426
01:02:36.360 --> 01:02:37.199
monsters on the mountain.

1427
01:02:37.260 --> 01:02:39.420
Are they homogenised?

1428
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:40.920
They have 2 different sorts of outfits.

1429
01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:43.920
Then they have 2 different sorts of outfits, but they acted

1430
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:44.760
exactly the same now.

1431
01:02:44.820 --> 01:02:46.260
Yeah, it's only...

1432
01:02:46.260 --> 01:02:47.699
As the same as men in the Yesi.

1433
01:02:47.820 --> 01:02:52.559
I said for Varga and Zondel, and watching it again, I am getting

1434
01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:57.659
sort of subtleties there, but maybe I'm reading a bit, but there's

1435
01:02:57.659 --> 01:02:59.699
a nice little mirror of what's going on with the humans between

1436
01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:00.119
those two.

1437
01:03:00.179 --> 01:03:03.599
Yeah, the whole, the whole Viking idea that is on paper.

1438
01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:06.539
Which is what, which, yeah, which is what Burna Bristol thought

1439
01:03:06.539 --> 01:03:07.260
he'd be playing.

1440
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:08.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1441
01:03:08.099 --> 01:03:10.559
The thing is, I think it still comes across in the script.

1442
01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:13.139
You know, comes crossing his performance, yeah.

1443
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:16.320
Yeah, they are still very sort of pillage based.

1444
01:03:16.380 --> 01:03:18.239
They don't...

1445
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:20.400
They have a pillage based economy.

1446
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.059
Well, look, you know, they're not like the side.

1447
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:27.900
They don't invade by self and then kind of say you'll be like us.

1448
01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:30.599
They just say, we're gonna smash your stuff and take your left.

1449
01:03:30.659 --> 01:03:32.400
And that's a very...

1450
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:35.099
Even though the Simon were doing in Moonbase?

1451
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:36.539
But myself.

1452
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:37.260
Yeah.

1453
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:40.920
Whereas the ice you can, you can see. ice worries are up and back

1454
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.139
in their shit, it's just like, no, we're going to zap it.

1455
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:46.440
You can see Cleans HR team saying, well, you know, look, we

1456
01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:47.880
managed to get rid of the rape part.

1457
01:03:47.940 --> 01:03:48.420
It's great.

1458
01:03:48.539 --> 01:03:49.500
We just got the pillage.

1459
01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:53.760
And well, as far as being put to the sword, at least to the

1460
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:57.599
supersonic woo-woo gun, well, we've kind of not been able to get

1461
01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:59.219
that, but we have got flea.

1462
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:02.519
So you're actually allowed to flee, flee for your lives.

1463
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:03.960
Now, I do it right now.

1464
01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:05.039
Press them up, please.

1465
01:04:05.099 --> 01:04:06.239
That's it.

1466
01:04:07.139 --> 01:04:08.760
They're great.

1467
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:09.840
There's a reason people love this.

1468
01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:14.940
I would like to have seen what Brian hails, and indeed, what

1469
01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:16.619
Douglas Canfield was pushing at the time.

1470
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:18.360
Did you know the other stories this was going to be?

1471
01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:21.900
This was going to be Doctor Who meets Hitler.

1472
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:25.559
That's what Brian Hale's 1st script synopsis was.

1473
01:04:25.619 --> 01:04:27.960
Jim Masoon, as the...

1474
01:04:28.019 --> 01:04:29.699
Yeah, but the team.

1475
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:33.059
Amazingly, Innis, Lloyd, we've kind of not been very generous to

1476
01:04:33.059 --> 01:04:33.780
him, have we?

1477
01:04:33.780 --> 01:04:38.039
so far on this, but he rejected it because it's, um, he said it's

1478
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:38.639
complete.

1479
01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:42.960
Well, he said, paraphrasing, completely indulgent, and it odds

1480
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:44.099
with the production codes.

1481
01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:48.420
Is this the operation werewolf script?

1482
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.039
No, that's another one again.

1483
01:04:50.099 --> 01:04:50.400
Thank you.

1484
01:04:50.460 --> 01:04:54.659
Yeah, Dougie Canfield submitted a World War 2 synopsis, which

1485
01:04:54.659 --> 01:04:58.619
sounds really interestingly, curse of Fenrick, that was Nazi

1486
01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:00.239
scientists and teleports.

1487
01:05:00.300 --> 01:05:02.639
So hello, seeds of death just a couple of years later.

1488
01:05:02.699 --> 01:05:05.880
But also there was some vampire thing underneath it as well.

1489
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:10.139
I hope Big Finish gets around to finding it or doing a right of

1490
01:05:10.139 --> 01:05:10.380
it.

1491
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:13.320
Yes, so I cannot download it.

1492
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:18.719
I just might say, I love the big finish, love stories, although I

1493
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:22.440
am quite the same way the Queen of Time, also by Brian Hales, was

1494
01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:22.800
lost.

1495
01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:24.239
Oh.

1496
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:27.780
Yeah, so apart from that and just how beautiful it sounds.

1497
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:30.059
I should really mention that orally.

1498
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:31.199
It's really great.

1499
01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:32.699
Did you watch it or listen?

1500
01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:34.980
I did watch it this time, but I have it as an audio.

1501
01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:37.920
Again, it's I'm 1st known from the Target book, which I think is

1502
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:39.900
actually the best version of this.

1503
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:42.599
Those episodes weren't discovered till like 88 or something.

1504
01:05:42.659 --> 01:05:44.460
There used to be none of it existence.

1505
01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:45.420
Yeah, quite late.

1506
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:45.900
Yeah, yeah.

1507
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:49.260
I actually did a book report on the novelisation when I was in

1508
01:05:49.260 --> 01:05:50.159
year 8 at school.

1509
01:05:50.940 --> 01:05:52.380
Yeah, it's quite that.

1510
01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:57.000
So I, obviously, caught Quasi Homer, a lot in love triangles, got

1511
01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:57.780
a big mention.

1512
01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:00.539
Well, as you can see, it's maybe the mouse.

1513
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:03.360
And Wendy, if it helps...

1514
01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:07.139
Did you notice that there's a victorious theme reprised?

1515
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:09.300
Remember when Evil of the Daleks, she's got a theme.

1516
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:11.099
I really like Dudley Simpson.

1517
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:12.780
He does it here with a Hammond organ.

1518
01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:14.699
I think it's in episode three.

1519
01:06:14.760 --> 01:06:17.639
I've written here episode 3 and he does a surrounder sound.

1520
01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:19.739
This is Shagpile mood lounge.

1521
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:23.880
Hugh Hefner. as close as we get to being in the would-be Concorde

1522
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:24.300
lounge.

1523
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:25.920
Yeah, the little sound mounts.

1524
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:26.699
These are beautiful.

1525
01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:27.239
Yeah.

1526
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:31.019
And I don't think we can finish before we mention the new

1527
01:06:31.019 --> 01:06:35.039
animation on the DVD. by the Kuros team.

1528
01:06:35.099 --> 01:06:36.480
Yes, it's all...

1529
01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:39.300
Oh, that one's not Australia.

1530
01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:43.679
Australian was Moonbase, 10th Planet, and Rain of Terror.

1531
01:06:43.739 --> 01:06:45.179
This was done by a different group.

1532
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.260
Hence, the different side of the show was better at then.

1533
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:50.460
But all good.

1534
01:06:50.519 --> 01:06:52.019
I like this one a lot.

1535
01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:53.579
I like this one a lot too.

1536
01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:56.820
I would have, you know, I'd be quite happy to see either style.

1537
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:58.619
Now this one did look simpler.

1538
01:06:58.679 --> 01:07:03.300
I don't know if it was cheaper. or not, but the odd thing is, start

1539
01:07:03.300 --> 01:07:04.980
looking simpler for animators.

1540
01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:06.960
Yeah, despite looking simpler.

1541
01:07:07.019 --> 01:07:11.400
I feel this one actually got a lot more detail into the facial

1542
01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:12.059
expression.

1543
01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:15.659
There's a few times where Patrick just rolls his eyes and it looks

1544
01:07:15.659 --> 01:07:19.199
like Patrick rolling his eyes, but as a cartoon character.

1545
01:07:19.260 --> 01:07:20.340
It's very well described.

1546
01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:24.239
I think I think, I mean, we'll get to the invasion sort of fairly

1547
01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:24.780
soon as well.

1548
01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:27.780
But I think this one and the invasion actually are the most

1549
01:07:27.780 --> 01:07:28.559
successful ones.

1550
01:07:28.619 --> 01:07:29.820
And they are simpler.

1551
01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:32.820
You know, like they don't try and reproduce 3D movement.

1552
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:35.219
They're much more flat and much more sort of 2 day.

1553
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:39.659
But I think that's using the medium of animation much more

1554
01:07:39.659 --> 01:07:40.260
effectively.

1555
01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:41.940
Do you know what I mean?

1556
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:43.500
It's like archer or something like that.

1557
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:45.840
It was a relief anyway.

1558
01:07:45.900 --> 01:07:47.820
So have a full 6 episode story to watch.

1559
01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:48.719
Absolutely.

1560
01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:51.239
Yeah, these 2 of them were just animated.

1561
01:08:00.300 --> 01:08:04.260
Well, that release is going to continue, Nathan, because in our

1562
01:08:04.260 --> 01:08:09.480
next podcast, We have 2 full stories to watch that just 14 months

1563
01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:09.900
ago.

1564
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:13.440
We could only see 2 episodes off.

1565
01:08:13.500 --> 01:08:14.760
How amazing is that?

1566
01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:19.020
I just, you know, I still can't believe it.

1567
01:08:19.079 --> 01:08:22.020
And I think I think also next time we have to have a little bit of

1568
01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:25.560
a discussion about what's happening or not with all the missing

1569
01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:25.859
episodes.

1570
01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:28.319
Oh, no, let's not do that at all.

1571
01:08:28.380 --> 01:08:30.899
It's not provoked to Philip the god of Philip Morris, like out

1572
01:08:30.899 --> 01:08:31.319
there.

1573
01:08:31.380 --> 01:08:35.460
Now, also before we go stay, I would like to mention our 1st

1574
01:08:35.460 --> 01:08:37.380
flight through entirety competition.

1575
01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:38.760
Gosh.

1576
01:08:38.819 --> 01:08:39.359
Yes.

1577
01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:42.060
I didn.

1578
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:47.039
Friend of the podcast, Tony Galuzo, who is also the president of

1579
01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:48.060
my wrestling club.

1580
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:50.699
How often?

1581
01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:53.699
Really, you're asking yourself. people as wrestler.

1582
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:56.819
I just thought the Turkish wrestling mask you were wearing was

1583
01:08:56.819 --> 01:09:00.539
interesting not to say Andrew Reed in a career.

1584
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:03.659
It's actually filled with yeti cake and crumbs.

1585
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:10.619
No, he came across a box of 1970s target novelisations when he was

1586
01:09:10.619 --> 01:09:13.739
renovating his house and he sort of said, Brendan, you like Doctor

1587
01:09:13.739 --> 01:09:14.039
Who.

1588
01:09:14.100 --> 01:09:14.699
Would you like these?

1589
01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:16.859
And I've had a look at them and to be honest, I've got all of

1590
01:09:16.859 --> 01:09:17.100
them.

1591
01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:21.960
So what we're going to do, every podcast, we're going to give away

1592
01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:23.699
3 target novelisations.

1593
01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:26.579
In order to be in the running to win one of these 3

1594
01:09:26.579 --> 01:09:27.479
novelisations.

1595
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:29.039
What we'd like you to do is this.

1596
01:09:29.100 --> 01:09:32.460
First of all, like us on Facebook, if you already have. wonderful

1597
01:09:32.520 --> 01:09:34.260
are so glad to have you.

1598
01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:38.699
Secondly, we would like you to share the link to this episode of

1599
01:09:38.699 --> 01:09:39.180
the podcast.

1600
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:43.920
And finally, we'd like you to follow that link, go to our website

1601
01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:46.260
and just leave a comment, tell us what you think.

1602
01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:50.340
Tell us what you would like us to discuss in future episodes as we

1603
01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:51.060
make our way through.

1604
01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:54.359
Now, for those of you who aren't following us on a flight through

1605
01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:58.140
entirety on Facebook, if just say you prefer Twitter, you can also

1606
01:09:58.140 --> 01:10:00.420
find us at FTE podcast.

1607
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:05.760
So if you follow us on there and retweet the tweet about this

1608
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:08.220
podcast, that will count as an entry as well.

1609
01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:13.920
We'll keep track of everyone and we'll announce the winner on our

1610
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:16.439
3rd season 5 episode.

1611
01:10:16.500 --> 01:10:19.800
Now we'll be recording that on the 23rd of November, Doctor Who's

1612
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:20.520
anniversary.

1613
01:10:20.579 --> 01:10:23.640
So make sure you are in before then.

1614
01:10:23.699 --> 01:10:26.939
So you'll have a week pretty much from today in order to do that.

1615
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:30.899
So, to recap, Like, share comment.

1616
01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:35.279
Or on Twitter, follow, retweet, comment.

1617
01:10:35.340 --> 01:10:38.220
If you are one of the winners, we'll let you know what books we

1618
01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:40.199
have, and you can choose your own, we'll post it out to you.

1619
01:10:40.260 --> 01:10:41.279
Okay.

1620
01:10:41.279 --> 01:10:42.119
Alright.

1621
01:10:42.180 --> 01:10:45.960
So that's all time we have for this episode of flight through

1622
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:51.119
entirety, but we will be back next week with the enemy of the

1623
01:10:51.119 --> 01:10:51.359
world.

1624
01:10:51.840 --> 01:10:54.000
And the web of fear.

1625
01:10:54.060 --> 01:10:56.220
So do come back for that.

1626
01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:56.880
Thank you very much.

1627
01:10:56.939 --> 01:10:57.300
Good night.

1628
01:10:57.359 --> 01:10:58.619
Good night.

1629
01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:06.300
We've been listening to Flight to Entirety with Nathan Bottomley

1630
01:11:06.300 --> 01:11:07.619
Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1631
01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:11.159
This episode, hauling a couple of prize marrows, was recorded on

1632
01:11:11.159 --> 01:11:12.479
Sunday, the 9th of November.

1633
01:11:12.539 --> 01:11:15.239
The next episode will be released on Sunday the 23rd.

1634
01:11:15.300 --> 01:11:18.420
You can find us online at flatthroughentirety.com, flat your

1635
01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:21.960
entirety on Facebook and iTunes or FTE podcast on Twitter.

1636
01:11:22.020 --> 01:11:24.479
I noticed what those young ladies were wearing too, Jamie.

1637
01:11:24.539 --> 01:11:26.039
I wonder if they have one in my size.

1638
01:11:29.100 --> 01:11:29.760
Let's see.

1639
01:11:35.699 --> 01:11:38.100
I think that's what she's really like.

1640
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:41.880
Yeah, well, my friend Farrah says that she's like that in green

1641
01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:43.020
wing that she's...

1642
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:43.920
Yeah, no, that is her.

1643
01:11:44.220 --> 01:11:46.439
So she's she's classwegian.

1644
01:11:46.500 --> 01:11:47.579
Of course that's who she is.

1645
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:49.500
Should I keep the accent?

1646
01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:52.199
Are you doing that now?

1647
01:11:52.260 --> 01:11:53.340
Is that what you're doing?

1648
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:53.880
Are you doing that?

1649
01:11:54.180 --> 01:11:55.020
You're doing this?

1650
01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:55.500
Hello.

1651
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:56.279
Hello, are you?