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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:07:55

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which absolutely doesn't get the whole Don't Wander off thing.

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I'm Nathan.

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Sorry, I wandered off.

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Brendan.

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And I'm just trying this out, but I'm feeling the latex is pushing up my throat a bit.

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So we've taped up the windows, put Dane Vera Lynn on the wireless, and we're cowering in a shelter with nothing for company, but a massive roast leg of pork.

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It must be time for the empty child.

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Now, you see, if it were modern dress, if we were doing this in modern dress, we'd actually have Gracie Fields rotating away.

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You know that Lisa Stansfield, who is Gracie Field's niece and a certain J.D. Whittaker all come from the same little bit.

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Oh, and they all have exactly the same accent, which I'm not going to try and do.

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That's exactly the same.

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Yes.

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We don't know when this is going out exactly, but it's entirely possible that you, dear listener, have already seen Jody in action.

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Yes, which would be rather apropos, because as we record, we've just seen her in action for the 1st time in the Comic Con trailer and stealing a catwalk.

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It's a hot topic.

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Actually, the t-shirt I'm wearing right now, I got from Hot Topic, while I was in America, because Hot Topic do all sorts of geeky things, and I'm wearing a t-shirt that has the 1st 12 slash 13 Doctor Who's, because it does have Peter Capaldi and John Hurt on there.

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It doesn't have Jodie Whittaker. going to scrawl her on here.

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Go to wall scrawl my own shirt.

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You can actually just colour in Peter Davidson.

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Give him slightly longer hair.

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Yes.

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I think not even.

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She was the P.

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Davidson all the time.

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No, I think the same person does their highlights.

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That's definitely a thing.

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I'm just waiting for the 1st fanboy online to say, who on earth, you know, what Doctor Who has ever had their hair blonded and bleached?

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Where and where are we?

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Colin Baker.

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Possibly even Billy, if...

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Well, actually, there was a lovely gilded rinse on Mr. Pertwe this week on day of the Daleks, day of the Daleks.

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Was that your weekly viewing?

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Yes.

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I'm currently up to Pertz.

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And yes, yes, there's definitely a gilded hue.

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So yeah, it's been going on for quite a while.

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Hey, cover everything on this planet.

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It numb in baker light.

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We cover it in bake light.

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We do.

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So this isn't the 1st time that we've been back to the 2nd World War.

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It was something that the show kind of avoided, partly because I think it was just, you know, kind of the recent past when the show began.

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Yes, yeah.

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I think we've mentioned this way, way back in the dawn of single digit episodes that the 1st World War 2 story looted was Operation Werewolf, which was conceived by Douglas Campfield for Patrick Troughton.

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And yet, the whole reason that was turned down was actually, this is quite recent too soon. too soon.

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And Mr. Letts agreed with that, didn't he?

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Yes, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And Douglas sort of said, oh, yes, yes, I take your point.

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Absolutely fair enough.

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But yes, yeah, I think they weren't allowed to go back to World War 2 until 1989.

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So it was like 40 odd years was deemed.

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Yeah, all right, we can do that now.

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And I think that that's a sort of cart milish thing is to sort of set stories in a much more recent past.

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And that's something that the new series has obviously sort of been able to do.

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How do we think the production goes at recreating 1940.

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Well, I think you could ask, how does the production go recreating 2005?

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And it goes because it's so long ago.

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And it goes the same way.

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I really find watching these because we haven't talked about watching the new shoe yet, have we other than Rose?

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And it does feel like a completely new and fresh thing.

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And seeing it now, it is the human drama, and it is soap, it large, but it's bigger than soap, and the characters are somewhat hapertrophied and intensely coloured in a way much like the Whitaker posters of the new companion.

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Oh, sorry, best friends. are also that intensely coloured thing.

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It's very different from what we end up with just a few years later when we see an animated comic strip under the next producer, where the characters become somewhat less fleshed and 2D. This is hyper real.

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And it's the same with 1940.

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The way they present 2005 is the way they present 1940.

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And intense, just that point, maybe, between childhood and adolescence, where everything is saturated with emotion and colour.

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And that's the experience I'm getting from this.

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I'd forgotten how good this 1st RTD series really is.

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Absolutely.

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And how good Eccleston is and how he isn't he isn't gurning face forward as Amanda Ianucci was always joking about at the time.

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He was constantly pushing jokes armed about Eccleston's gurneying into the lens.

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I'm not finding that at all.

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I actually feel he's holding back a bit.

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Yeah, something that Christopher Eccleston has said in recent years that he felt he got wrong was comedy.

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But I think he pictures comedy perfectly.

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Yeah, we have that bit in the cocktail bar at the beginning, which I remember seeing that in 2005.

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And that's one of the moments to see it on my memory because the doctor standing in the doorway watching the singer.

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And I remember just sitting there going, so is she going to be sort of the Cathica of this story or the Harriet Jones MP for Flydale North?

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Is she going to be the main character because there's a bit of flirtation going on?

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But Stephen Moffatt just brilliantly then throws her away.

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You know, we have this glamorous nightclub singer.

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But no, we're not gonna follow her.

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We're going to follow this street urchin later on.

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But then Eccleston gets up on stage and does his whole bit of has anything fallen out of the sky recently.

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The semitones fell very flat.

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I hope she ended up with the alley cats.

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But that's the whole thing of, you know, that scene is immensely funny.

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And the only funny bit Eccleston gets is just his sort of sigh at the end when he realises how hard it's going to be to find something that's fallen out of the sky.

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And I think Eccleston pitches that perfectly.

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It's what Tom Baker said Nicholas Courtney was so good at in that Nicholas Courtney, quite often when he was getting a funny line, didn't get the joke, but just kind of played it as completely straight.

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This week I've been watching the new season 12 box set.

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And Tom says on the commentary, like Nicholas Courtney's last line in robot of, oh, yes, well, I suppose I'll tell Her Majesty you'll be a little late.

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According to Tom Nick didn't get that that was funny.

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But he said that, you know, that's why Nicholas Courtney is so funny because he doesn't know he's being funny.

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And when you say to him, oh, Nick, that was hilarious.

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He would just sort of defer and demure it.

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Oh, what's a Tokyo?

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It's one of Tom's sticks or tropes. about other actors.

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He said it constantly of Arthur Lowe.

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That the reason he was so brilliant in comedy and he was one of Tom's favourite comedic actors.

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Artholow, of course, played Captain Mannering in Dad's Army.

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Yes.

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He didn't even prepare this earlier.

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It's just this beautiful solidipity. of not knowing what you're doing.

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And we can't say that of this season because we know how many rewrites went into every damn scene we're watching.

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So, yeah.

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And of course, this has probably been mentioned on every episode this year, but every episode of this season was underrunning by 5 minutes.

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And so you get scenes that were added in at a later date.

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I think this episode suffered less than others.

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I don't know of any scenes that were filler in this episode, but I'll talk about some next episode.

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I've heard it said that the next time trailers are the result of that as well.

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Exactly.

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I mean, that is something that Russell did do in both Queer as folk and in the 2nd coming.

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I don't know about Casanova.

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And I actually quite like it because it gives us a 2nd cliffhanger, I think, or a cliffhanger in episodes that wouldn't otherwise have one, a way of getting strategic next week.

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This, of course, is Stephen Moffatt's 1st contribution to the program.

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And he's someone who will go on to be the person who has written more Doctor Who screen time than anyone else.

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He beats Robert Holmes at some point during series 9, I want to say.

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Um, And just like the other stories this season, This is the story that Stephen Moffat had wanted to write for Doctor Who, I think, for, you know, decades, literally, everyone is bringing to the show the thing that they most wanted to do during the wilderness years.

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And it does have the moffety tropes in it, but in a way that we're not sort of sick of yet.

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And I think, I think, particularly, I remember, do you remember the 1st episode leaked onto the internet, uh, rose leaked onto the internet and was sort of made available and some unscrupulous people, none of whom we know or, you know, indeed are, um, sort of watch it beforehand.

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But after at least, Stephen Moffat actually came out to Sydney and did a Doctor Who day event, and I had the opportunity to speak to him.

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And being a big fan of press game, the 1st thing I asked him was, so do you do a telephone gag?

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And of course he does. sort of very early on we get the TARDIS exterior phone ringing for the 1st time.

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It's perfectly realised and perfectly articulated and also paced.

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It feels like an Herge comic to me.

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It's as if Tantown was actually played by Eccleston and set in Britain, World War II. the pace and the action and the high points.

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There's a high point of drama or action.

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Almost every 3rd beat.

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Bang, bang, bang, there's another event.

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And it's expensive to look at, and it's complex and it's timed perfectly.

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And the thing, if we're going to get onto, maybe it's too soon, but the thing that holds all together for me, is not the introduction of Jack.

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It's not even Eccleston.

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It's Billy.

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It's Billy, it's Billy's vault facing and actually throwing, she throws more lines away than she, much more than Eccles does with comedy.

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They both actually have a kind of two-handed style that they're mirroring each other.

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He separates them both really quite quickly.

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And they don't actually meet up until the end of the episode.

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So they get sort of different things to do.

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And so you get Eccleston sort of wandering around, really just learning about the world that he's in, uh, and, you know, meeting Nancy and experiencing an air raid and all that sort of thing.

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And then you get that sort of spectacular scene, which is something that, again, Moffatt is famous for pushing further what could appear on screen, uh, and that incredible scene where she's hanging from a barrage balloon during an air raid and that there are German sort of bombers going past her.

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And I don't think for a 2nd that that scene looks realistic.

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No, not at all.

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It feels ailing level, really.

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Yeah, that's the thing, though.

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It feels like a 1940s war movie and they're being very careful with the special effects in that there's only a few shots where the Billy and the planes are in the same shot and the rest of the time, you know, it's Billy Piper hoisted up on a crane in the middle of the night above a crash mat, you know?

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I love that because it does have that level of adventure that we've come to expect from this new incarnation of the show.

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And I think there's a bit of serendipity involved because I remember at the time with Aliens of London, World War 3, there was a disappointment in the viewership that the 2nd episode was pretty much about the doctor being locked in a cupboard.

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So this time instead, they're kind of pushing the boat out.

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I don't know if the production team felt that, okay, no, we need to have a more action-packed two-parter than the two-parter we've already had.

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Yeah, viewed it all as a whole.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It was all in the can before it was shown.

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That's true. yeah.

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But yeah, we get that action set piece straight away.

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I love the bantering we get before that of do a scan for alien tech.

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Give me give me some Spock.

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And the sort of thrill that in the Doctor Who universe.

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Star Trek is a television program, you know.

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That was a thrill.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, all of that Joss Whedon thing of citing modern stuff.

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Yeah.

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My goodness, we're modern now.

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And it was sort of part of the program's sort of rebit.

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I mean, there's a very definite buffy vibe to rose in that 1st episode.

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Like I, Moffatt doesn't strike me as a massive Star Trek fan.

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But it is a really sort of fun thing.

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And the way it pays off, of course, she meets Captain Jack, who is like the doctor only sort of sexier and more sort of self-confident and a little bit less kind of ramshackle and haphazard.

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And obviously we'll talk more about how that turns out in the next episode.

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But I think that that 1st scene, obviously, is, you know, something that a show could never have conceived of doing before.

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Like, you know, you couldn't have had Debbie Wattling hanging from a crane with some sort of air fix, you know, model planes on wise, sort of seeing pasta.

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We could never have had that before.

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And it does look great.

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Not with her notorious Nick or Elastic.

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I'm just imagining that now, Victoria hanging from there.

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Oh, Jimmy, you're swine. you're swine.

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Could I just say one more thing about that 1st scene before we move on?

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It's the 2nd reset. we get this year because Dalek at episode 6 that was seen as a 2nd opening night.

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Yeah.

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And this one about two-thirds of the way through the series.

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In the 1st scene, we get an explanation of what the psychic paper is.

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We get the doctor saying 900 years of phone box travel.

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We get don't wander off.

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We get, I don't have a name.

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All the kind of things you need to know about these characters.

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We get in the 1st 5 minutes.

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And I think this is a conscious thing of, you know, people know that the Daleks are going to come in, they might start watching from this point.

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People know the end of the series is coming up.

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They might start watching at this point and it's very cleverly done.

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It never quite feels as bad as you well know, Bob, kind of thing.

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I think the psychic paper is a bit of an asthma.

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And I think she says, yes, I know or something.

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I think that that's really interesting given that from our point of view, we're about to see a season that's presenting itself as a reboot in a place where you can onboard, but now instead of happening 3 times a season, we get those, you know, every 3 seasons or so.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think series 10 was very much designed as a place you could start watching.

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But before that, what series 5 was maybe.

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So, yeah, I think that one of the charming things about this season is they don't know that it's going to be a massive success.

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They don't know whether anyone's gonna want to watch it at all.

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And so they're a little bit less kind of cocky. you know, and much, much more careful about not putting the audience off and giving the audience an in.

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And I think that that's definitely right here.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Movin is already famous, I think, for his romantic comedy staff.

206
00:16:52.259 --> 00:17:00.600
And we've got some of that, I think, in series 8 in all of those stories that he co-authored, but here he gets. coupling with bow ties.

207
00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:01.620
Yes.

208
00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.259
They really are the same.

209
00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:04.799
No offence.

210
00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:06.660
Maybe on the same show.

211
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:13.319
But I think he does a great job here, and I think Billy sells the hell out of it when she 1st meets Jack.

212
00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:18.900
There's that wonderful thing where he says, oh, you know, you look like you're about to faint.

213
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.420
And then she says...

214
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:21.900
What about you?

215
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.000
You're not even in focus and then she fails.

216
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:26.819
Yeah.

217
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.819
And yeah, I love things like, can you please switch off your mobile phone?

218
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.940
No, really, it interferes with my instruments. stays with me.

219
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:33.420
Yeah.

220
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:34.799
It's perfect scripting.

221
00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:39.299
Moffat just shows how brilliant he really is when he's given 12 months to do one story.

222
00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:42.480
There'll be more of this anon.

223
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:52.859
Yeah, but at the time, this just felt so fresh and no Doctor Who writer had done the kind of things that Moff doesn't. weren't allowed to.

224
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:53.880
And it wasn't even.

225
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:55.500
It wasn't even Doctor Who.

226
00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.819
It was really until Secret Army.

227
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:58.500
The BBC didn't tackle this stuff.

228
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:09.359
You've got to remember, the people working on the show, in our day, in the 1970s, grew up at a time, British film didn't talk about evacuations during the war.

229
00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:15.900
It didn't talk about allied pilots or allied soldiers from Europe working with.

230
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.420
There were whole lots of things that were not discussed.

231
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.299
Any of the concentration terrible business.

232
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.059
That was never referred to, although they knew about it, the bodies.

233
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.900
So British wartime films, which this is very much and yes, I'm back.

234
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:32.460
This is very, very much sourcing visually with little high note jokes.

235
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:40.740
So you got it with the static horizontal line model shock work, which is very much how these things were done.

236
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.819
Although there are some beautiful, and the Danbusters is a lot of model work and it looks gorgeous.

237
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:52.440
So this then jumps out of the TV screen and throws us into the 3rd or whatever dimension.

238
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:53.039
We're up to.

239
00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:58.319
Now, by exploring what if, and the what if is in the presence of Nancy.

240
00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:03.420
And I believe that Moffat will always put himself in apotheosis in a script, but as a girl.

241
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.400
I think he's Nancy.

242
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.380
I think he's always puts himself in as the girl.

243
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.420
I think, and they're always the best parts.

244
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.000
I think as we own Carrie Mulligan.

245
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:16.259
I believe that that's also Mufford's voice in Blink, because we're getting up to, so.

246
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:17.579
Yeah, always.

247
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:28.920
Or he's, if you like, Moffatt was doing mindfulness before the rest of us, but his mindfulness is a very smart. swanky, sarcastic Julia Swala, who's always just, you know, perched on your shoulder in the room.

248
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.880
That's a position.

249
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.799
Go to go on.

250
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:37.740
Getting back to that, just let me drop another name here.

251
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.599
The same name again.

252
00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:43.319
Getting back to that conversation with Stephen Moffatt that I actually got to have.

253
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:46.200
Was this while you were holding Camille Kajuri's handbag as well?

254
00:19:46.259 --> 00:19:48.180
before I neck come in.

255
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:53.880
He was super proud of the gags about Eccleston's nose and ears.

256
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.279
Oh, that he puts in Nancy's mouth.

257
00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:57.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.400
And that is quite a mouthful.

259
00:19:59.460 --> 00:19:59.819
Yeah.

260
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:05.400
You know, being that I'm back on the podcast, I have to mention the silent podcast partner.

261
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:06.960
So watching this the other night with Rod.

262
00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:16.319
Who, of course, for once in this story, made no comments about homoeroticism, but did say... actual homosexuality.

263
00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:17.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

264
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.480
He just turned to me at one point. the whole reason this story works is her.

265
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:22.799
And he pointed at Nancy.

266
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.519
Florence Hoef does an amazing job as Nancy.

267
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:27.960
Extraordinary child actress.

268
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:29.220
She's 67 in this.

269
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.079
Amazing word.

270
00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:32.759
Deborah Watling is here.

271
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:46.200
But what makes her work so well is we get a few characters this season who are characters who need to step up and be extraordinary, often quite reluctantly.

272
00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:49.500
So we get Kathika, who just, you know, leave me out of it.

273
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.140
I don't want to be part of this, but steps up and saves the day.

274
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.619
We get Harriet Jones, who is overwhelmed, but steps up and saves the day.

275
00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.400
When the doctor arrives in this story, Nancy has already stepped up.

276
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:13.200
You know, she has suffered a tragedy, and so she is looking after these children, and the scene around the dinner table is so charming where despite the fact that they are coming into this home and taking the food.

277
00:21:13.259 --> 00:21:21.779
She's like, we will not make negative remarks about the people in this house, and we will each only take one piece, and we will wash up when we are done.

278
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:23.819
You know, she doesn't, though.

279
00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.079
No, no, she doesn't.

280
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.500
Dinner is interrupted.

281
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:35.640
And we get that lovely bit where the doctor's suddenly around the table and Nancy is just cool and unflappable about that.

282
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:37.319
Don't worry about him.

283
00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:38.460
He's not meant to be here either.

284
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.200
He's not here to arrest us.

285
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:41.039
He's not a copper.

286
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:49.500
But yet, she's just so charming and brave and funny and vulnerable and all those things we like in Doctor Who characters.

287
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:56.700
Yeah, I mean, we'll see next week though, that she still does have to overcome something and is inspired by the doctor to step up.

288
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:03.839
There was a big complaint, I think, when this series 1st aired, that the doctor didn't seem to solve any of the problems.

289
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.480
But I think it's really deliberate.

290
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:16.980
And, uh, you know, that over and over again, Mickey is another example in World War 3 where someone is reluctant, but they're inspired by the doctor to be better.

291
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:28.380
And, you know, John Sim makes fun of that when he comes as the master in a couple of years time, where he sneers at the doctor for choosing the name doctor, the person who makes people better.

292
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:41.400
But I think that that's so much more interesting than just having a superhero come in and waiver thing and joins and wires together and stuff like in power of growl and everything sort of picks.

293
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.099
Throw the, just LSU tech leaf.

294
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.400
Yeah, it is true, isn't it?

295
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.319
But that was what Tom did so well.

296
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:53.400
Except when he was when he knew he was doing it.

297
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.619
And then he just said, no, bugger this, I'm not going to.

298
00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.359
He had a whole bit of that Peter Cook and Dudley Moore thing is, well, I don't know if you're going to pay me to do it.

299
00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.019
I'm not going to.

300
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.900
So again, that's why we still have dialects.

301
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:05.640
It's not has to do with Rob Schumann.

302
00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:07.200
It says bloody fuse wires.

303
00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.599
It's 3 amp fuse wise.

304
00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:10.380
He just refused.

305
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:10.799
Honestly.

306
00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.259
This is before the threat of Brexit.

307
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:22.019
I mean, maybe there just weren't enough Polish electricians in the Khalid bumper, but really, I've been catching up on Doctor Who and Dark Eyes from Big Finish.

308
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:28.799
And there's, there's a few, there's a few references in that, basically, whenever the doctor complains about the Daleks, a Time Lord will say to him.

309
00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:32.099
Well, if you'd done your job properly, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

310
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.079
Twice really.

311
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:42.359
Well, that also starts off with a lovely wartime theme. 1st episode. my favourite thing.

312
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:43.740
And very interestingly.

313
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:51.480
Usually when Doctor Who goes back to World War 2 with one notable exception, which we'll talk about in a few years.

314
00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:56.519
But usually when it goes back to World War II, it avoids showing the Nazis.

315
00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:59.099
They are this off-screen.

316
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.359
Yeah, I agree as well.

317
00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:03.119
It's because, and we mentioned this back in cursor, Fenrick.

318
00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:15.480
I think if you are going to show them, it can be difficult to tell a story and get across just how vile they were as an ideological and physical force.

319
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:21.059
Indiana Jones does it very well because the whole thing is comic book and kind of pastiche.

320
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.900
And it's writ large and it has a momentum behind it that sweeps everyone along.

321
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.619
Exactly.

322
00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.680
Otherwise, you end up with, if you do it on the small screen, LOL.

323
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:29.700
Yeah.

324
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:47.339
Yeah, it's like, yeah, you can only kind of do it as fast or as, yeah, the weird thing is with Indiana Jones, the Nazis come in and make it a lot more serious than it was, and they raise the stakes, you know, whereas it's a jolly romp, and then the Nazis turn up, and, oh my god, this is deadly serious.

325
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:52.259
Whereas I think if you tried that in Doctor Who, it would rob some of the magic of it.

326
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.720
So having them as this offscreen force is much better.

327
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:56.339
They're barely mentioned.

328
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.480
I think the doctor mentions Hitler in like next episode.

329
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:03.539
I don't think anyone actually uses the word Nazi in this story.

330
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.519
I think it's the right idea.

331
00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:13.500
I mean, you know, we think that Doctor Who is very important. and serious and things, but it really doesn't have the dramatic weight to deal with nancism.

332
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.920
And I think that attempting to get it to do it is a mistake.

333
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:30.720
Do you remember years ago, there was this talk about, I think Paul Cornell suggested that the 7th doctor was the only doctor who had the moral gravity to walk through a concentration camp.

334
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:34.079
But I think that that's completely wrong.

335
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:44.700
I think that the doctor has never had that kind of moral gravity, but that's something so horrific and so unimaginable, but it means it to put it in Doctor Who.

336
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:56.460
And Doctor Who can deal with that stuff as metaphor, I think, really well, and has had kind of rubber suited Nazis in it ever since the sort of 1960s. although perhaps they were mostly communists.

337
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:01.019
But I think it's wise to keep them out of this.

338
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:08.640
And they are represented literally by a computer-generated cartoon in episode one and that's really all we see of them.

339
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:10.079
I agree.

340
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:14.279
It's, it, it, well, we've talked again ostensible threats in Doctor Who.

341
00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:15.599
It is about metaphor.

342
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:21.000
Well, it's about the child's experience, which is always filtered through other means and other mediums.

343
00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:22.440
That's what Doctor Who is for.

344
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.539
If you are experiencing these horrors 1st off.

345
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.839
I don't know the Doctor Who's the place that's going to be able to help you deal with these things.

346
00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:29.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

347
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:35.579
We learn through inference and metaphor and and other means of expression.

348
00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:41.579
This one's very musical.

349
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:42.599
What do you think of the score?

350
00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:46.380
Because it does feel like an Elgar triumphal march.

351
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:47.940
Just stomping along.

352
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:57.180
I think it's a little bit less sort of obviously thematic and stuff, you know, like it's, there are other stories, I think, that have a more distinctive sound to them.

353
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:04.440
But I think that perhaps that's because there's a sort of generic war movie thing going on here that Murray wants to bring out.

354
00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:16.140
And he likes throwing in his references, just like, you know, well, indeed anyone, the state of the British composer, to be Lloyd Webber and just nick anything that no one else is over for a few years.

355
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:24.000
But there's quite a bit of corn gold and there's quite a bit of wartime scoring in this generally. which is a great thing.

356
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:25.740
Why would you want to reboot?

357
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.319
I like to be reminded of a source of material.

358
00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:31.500
Yeah, well, I think that there's still an approach.

359
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:33.599
You know, this isn't gritty.

360
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:35.160
This isn't in any way realistic.

361
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:36.779
This isn't really the 1940s.

362
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.180
It's our memories of the 1940s.

363
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.599
I love the couple whose...

364
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:43.559
The Anderson Shelters.

365
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.140
Mr. and Mrs. Lloyd.

366
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:57.420
They're the Lloyds. with her big kind of freely apron and her sort of angry demeanour and stuff like that and her expostulating husband and the sound of air raids.

367
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:04.559
And even the nightclub that we mentioned before, which is clearly some kind of sort of secret speakeasy thing.

368
00:28:04.619 --> 00:28:09.720
Like it's just hidden. behind a door and and it's underground and stuff.

369
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:14.460
All of that stuff is kind of movie style.

370
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:21.960
I love the bit where they're going into the shelter and Mrs. Lloyd says, get underground.

371
00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:22.740
It's an air raid.

372
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.660
And Mr. Lloyd says, I know it's an air raid.

373
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:42.480
And that's where Eccleston really lends his own, and I think that's why, I don't know, he may well be my favourite of the new era doctors so far, is that he does lend gravitas in the middle of enlightness as well. with the duality of that in the middle of great horror.

374
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:51.960
There were 71 air raids, almost 20,000 Londoners killed twice, you know, almost twice that injured, and a 1000000 homes destroyed.

375
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:58.259
There was a picture that turned up on Twitter just a couple of days ago of like London scene from the point of view of St.

376
00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:05.759
Paul's immediately after the war was over and just, you know, block after block of London, 1965.

377
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.799
Oh, blessed Twitch.

378
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.319
I really like what you're saying about wartime movie troops.

379
00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:25.440
And no, it was right, not cast Eccleston in this role, but where was our matinee idol?

380
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:33.420
And it's the 1st and I feel still the best, dare I say, only time that I have really warmed to the character of Captain Jack.

381
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.400
He just works beautifully and that the positioning is perfect, the size and shape of him is perfect.

382
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:44.160
He really is, though, interestingly, the only 2 dimensional character in a 3 dimension.

383
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:45.900
Which is as it should be.

384
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:52.140
Something I love about the introduction of Jack is that he's introduced like a monster.

385
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:54.299
We don't see his face.

386
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.880
We see him holding the binoculars up and then we see his vision.

387
00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:57.720
It's just a flash.

388
00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:01.740
So the 1st thing you think is, hold on, was that like electronic stuff across it?

389
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.380
And then we get a longer look through the binoculars?

390
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.119
And the thing is, he's spying on Rose.

391
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:07.920
He's spying on the doctor's friend.

392
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.019
So he is introduced like a monster, but then he turns around and we get that matinee idol smile.

393
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:15.839
And of course, in this story, he is an anti-hero.

394
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:19.740
You know, he is an exploitative character.

395
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.980
So we're not quite sure whether we trust him or not.

396
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:24.839
We like him because Rose likes him.

397
00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:33.000
But, um, even at the end of the story where they don't have much screen time together, the doctor is very sceptical of him.

398
00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:35.579
So we had this tension with the character.

399
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:41.700
The character, of course, was created by Russell T. Davies and sort of given to Stephen Moffat.

400
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.180
Okay.

401
00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:56.759
But Stephen really streamlined the character because in the initial outline, he's an alien called Jax, posing as a person, Captain Jack Harkness, and Stephen Moffatt streamlined that for 2 reasons.

402
00:30:56.819 --> 00:30:59.700
He's like, Jax is very similar to Jackie.

403
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.079
And also very early on, Jackie was going to be shortened to Jax.

404
00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:06.240
Like her friends would call her Jack.

405
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:18.180
So J-A-C-K-S, whereas this was J-A-X. And Stephen Moffatt kind of went, well, if he's called Captain Jack Harkness, you know, why have that complexity of my real name is Jax.

406
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.200
Well, who cares?

407
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:23.099
on the planet Z. Yeah, it's like, and Ernst Stavlo Bluff out, you know?

408
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.640
It's that moment of dramatic reveal for no reason.

409
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:35.519
The other thing was Big Finish had just introduced Hex a couple of years beforehand, the BBC books had had tricks.

410
00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:42.660
So it's like Doctor Who becomes the show where you have a character whose name ends with X, which is a sci-fi trope.

411
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:52.680
So Stephen Moffatt was kind of like, no, no, no, have him as normal on the outside. and then you go beneath the surface and he's a bit odd and a bit strange.

412
00:31:52.740 --> 00:32:06.119
And I think that works really well because he's introduced as this odd, possibly villainous force, but then the very next thing he does is turns around and, you know, Pat's one of his army colleagues on the arse.

413
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.619
That's where he stops being Walker from dad's army.

414
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:14.279
With the Hershey Buzz and Nylon stockings and her sets everything else.

415
00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:17.940
Yeah, and then it becomes very much in modern dress, doesn't it?

416
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:22.019
Well, that's when we get the sort of fabulous rom-com stuff too.

417
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:33.660
We do, but we also have to remember that, okay, we're slightly just beyond the point, but one of the antecedents, this film that really works for me, and I will be going on about that, is John Borman's 1987 film Hope and Glory.

418
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.339
I don't know if any of you remember it.

419
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.019
I just left school when it was on.

420
00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:42.359
And it was full of wartime nostalgia, but it also touched on the truths and realities.

421
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:53.940
And the 2 couple going to the Anderson Shelter are exactly 2 characters from hope and glory when woman yells out, boy, Mr. Hitler, go and hit that woman in number 16.

422
00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:54.900
She's a right cow.

423
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.119
Yeah, I miss that was Mrs. Evans.

424
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:20.400
My favourite line in that film is with the schoolteacher with the kids all yelling away just as Catherine Tate would do in her own show and he turns and he yells at them and throws some chalk at them and says, men are fighting and trying to save all the pink bits for you ungrateful little twerps.

425
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.380
And I thought that was proper filthy.

426
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.799
I was 21 and I think it's even filthier now.

427
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:28.259
It's...

428
00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:36.359
It's funny that you mentioned Catherine Tate because for Christmas last year I bought right a whole heap of Victoria would DBDs.

429
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:44.279
And there's a bit where she's doing a mock movie tone news in wrecked London during the blitz kind of thing.

430
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:54.660
And she's playing this housewife and she's standing on a pile of rubble, you know, calling back to that famous photo of the housewife, sipping a cup of tea while sitting on a pile of rubble that used to be her house.

431
00:33:54.660 --> 00:34:05.160
But Victoria Woods says, Yep, we're digging through here because under there is my Christmas pudding, which has been steeping for 6 months, and I believe also my husband.

432
00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:07.500
So if we find them both, it will be a very good day.

433
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:28.260
I think next week we get on a bit more about British attitudes towards the war. when we'll be joined by David Cameron and Porris Johnson and Theresa.

434
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:40.019
I do have to say the other thing Stephen Moffatt does so well here is he does the throwaway lines that make Doctor Who a bigger universe so very well. so good at these.

435
00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:41.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

436
00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:47.400
Russell will start doing it more, but certainly at the beginning of the season, There's a big shying away from mentioning other things.

437
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:58.139
You know, we see a cyberman head in Dalek kind of thing and later on in the season we're going to get just in a couple of weeks time, my father would have fed me to the venom grubs, you know.

438
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.880
But here, Stephen Moffatt decides, it's a Chula warship and we've never heard of a Chula before.

439
00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:08.039
And I spent the rest of the Russell T. Davies era waiting for a chula to show up.

440
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:09.900
And in my head, can I...

441
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:10.739
Dutch flower people.

442
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:11.760
Yeah.

443
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.179
In my head cannon, until they were named as cat kind.

444
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.679
I thought that the cat people on new earth were the chula.

445
00:35:19.739 --> 00:35:24.539
I thought that's a very that's a very feline name, but then they were named, you know, the cat kind.

446
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:25.980
But that's the thing.

447
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:30.360
My head cannon was that the Chula were these...

448
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:36.840
We all know they're actually the lost cat people of Gallifrey who are romping about with Andrew now in the waist, aren't they?

449
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:44.579
It was a restaurant, I think, that the series one writers, an Indian restaurant that they used to go to.

450
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:45.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

451
00:35:45.900 --> 00:36:02.880
It's where all the other writers, except for Russell, went to to celebrate their commissions, and apparently where it was Mark Gators, who said, oh, God, now we actually have to do this, and now we have to make it work, and now if it sucks, we are going to be blamed forever more, which, you know, according to Rob Sheaman, really brought the mood down a bit.

452
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.519
Yes, those puppadums didn't crinkle quite so crisply after that, didn't they?

453
00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:20.579
Big Finisher's short trips range, which has recently included Joseph Lidster writing for Camille Kadouri, which are fabulous, and you should go.

454
00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:22.260
I haven't downloaded it, but I haven't listened to it yet.

455
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.480
I need to get back to Joe and tell him how good it was.

456
00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:33.119
But it's also recently had a short story called Erasure, read by Sean Carlson as Narvan, who's one of the characters from the Gallifrey Audios.

457
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:48.659
He's a CIA operative, but in his framing narrative for that, when he's about to start telling the story, he talks about, you know, the crises, the time lords has faced and he mentions, you know, the killer cats of ginseng, but we removed that from the records because it wasn't our proudest moment.

458
00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:53.579
So it references how, you know, we got it the invasion of time.

459
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:59.340
So, you know, they left the invasion of time in, but removed the killer cats of Ginseng.

460
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.639
So it tells you how crappy that was. all true.

461
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:08.400
And then Richard Bloody Wilson turns up. as Dr. Constantine.

462
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:12.960
Fave, he's actually, again, after Nancy, my favourite character piece in this.

463
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:14.760
It's some amazing cast.

464
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.519
He's so sensitive and poignant, and he plays a proper queer.

465
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:18.059
Yeah.

466
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:18.420
Yes.

467
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:20.820
Well, he is an out actor and has been for a long time.

468
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:24.659
He also, you know who he grew up with and has the fruitiest stories about Sean Connery.

469
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:28.380
It's a lovely crossover to our bond finger. that's right.

470
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:33.539
Which, hopefully by this point, we've got the complete run maybe by this point.

471
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:36.179
There's got to be another casino royale that we have.

472
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:47.699
But no, Richard Wilson is just so warm and charming and I feel genuine sadness and grief and there's that 2nd point after Nancy's moments, but that 2nd point that we've seen so far with the little children.

473
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.320
But that just that moment when you can see his illness and you spot suddenly you spot the scar on his hand.

474
00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:53.099
Yes.

475
00:37:53.099 --> 00:37:54.539
And you realise, oh, he knows.

476
00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:01.739
Yeah, there's that moment too where he says, like before the war, I was a father and a grandfather and now I'm neither.

477
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:08.340
And what he's been doing is just been sitting there heroically looking after these people. playing it as Billy should have.

478
00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:12.239
Yes, he actually cares about his grandchildren.

479
00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.179
But it is incredibly beautiful.

480
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:25.139
And of course, we're back at Albion Hospital because there is, you know, there's this tension with Doctor Who because every story is set in a different place, every episode we're somewhere new.

481
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:39.480
You know, this episode gives us Big Ben again and it gives us the Albion Hospital back from Aliens of London just to create this sort of consistent place for the stories to take place in.

482
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.119
And that scene is proper scary.

483
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:52.440
And of course, that's one of the things that Moffat will become famous for during his time writing for the RTD era is just how scary he can make Doctor Who.

484
00:38:53.280 --> 00:39:08.579
The great thing about using that hospital again is it was, it was a decision based on the fact that they decided to use the same location because, of course, we've mentioned before that 2 weeks into filming, production was 3 weeks behind, so they were grateful of anywhere they could use twice.

485
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.980
But they then said, well, if it's the same location, let's make it the same location.

486
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:15.539
But it occurred to me watching it.

487
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:21.239
It's really good that we never get a line where someone says, oh, I was, you know, the doctor never says, oh, this is where I met the pig person.

488
00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:21.840
Yeah.

489
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:27.599
The other reason for that is, last time the doctor was here, he never saw the place from the outside.

490
00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:29.460
Oh, okay.

491
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.739
So, you know, there's there's no way he can say that.

492
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:37.440
But I'm glad he didn't because we, we, the loyal viewer who has been watching the entire series.

493
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:40.440
Just get that free song of, hold on, is that?

494
00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:41.280
Yes, that's the same.

495
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:42.840
It's the same sign at the front?

496
00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:43.679
Yeah, that's the same place.

497
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:49.440
Yeah, it's a lovely little touch and Richard Wilson just comes in and I love it.

498
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:54.300
It's quite a common thing when they bring in a classic character actor.

499
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.940
They will just sit in a chair and they'll rule the entire scene.

500
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:09.000
I know I've mentioned this before, but I saw Diana Rigg in Pygmalion as Mrs. Higgins, and she would just walk in and sit down and Rupert Everett would just yield the stage to her.

501
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:13.980
And Christopher Eccleston kind of does the same thing here.

502
00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:19.500
And you can kind of see that Christopher Eccleston goes, I'm with a really experienced actor who I respect.

503
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.219
This is your scene, mate, off you go.

504
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.920
And that's the thing, Richard Wilson just comes in.

505
00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:32.219
He sits down, never raises his voice, never shouts or anything like that, doesn't play it to the back row, just plays it very subtly.

506
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:37.079
And there's kind of this weariness to him, obviously, he doesn't ask to see the doctor's papers.

507
00:40:37.139 --> 00:40:38.820
He doesn't say, are you from the war office?

508
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:44.699
He wants to tell someone and pass on the responsibility because he knows he's changing.

509
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:46.260
He knows he's infected.

510
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.139
So he tells the doctor everything before he changes.

511
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.980
So, okay mate, over to you, you do something about this.

512
00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:57.719
And the scene is really, really quite scary.

513
00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:09.960
There's a great moment where the doctor asks what the cause of death is for all these people, and Dr. Constantine just says, there isn't one, and we discover that they're all still alive.

514
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:11.639
They're all suddenly sitting up.

515
00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:13.019
Yeah, he hits the bucket.

516
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:14.159
Yeah, everyone sits up.

517
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:16.800
Yeah, it is really proper frightening.

518
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:19.559
And I guess that brings us to the cliffhanger.

519
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:27.599
We've had one cliffhanger so far, this series, and it wasn't perhaps the most elegant cliffhanger in the show's history.

520
00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:29.159
What do we think about this?

521
00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:41.880
We've got a dual cliffhanger where Nancy is being menaced by Jamie, and at the same time we've got Jack, Rose, and the doctor in the hospital being menaced by all of these zombies.

522
00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:43.199
What do we think?

523
00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:44.159
Superb.

524
00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:47.639
Yeah, yeah, I think it's absolutely wonderful.

525
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:52.440
And something I didn't pick up on until I was watching the upscale on the Blu-ray.

526
00:41:52.500 --> 00:42:02.940
Um, is that you get a great shot of JB and I think part of the reason it doesn't come across is just the similarity in texture, but you get a shot through the eyepieces.

527
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.639
And what it's meant to be is he is empty.

528
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:06.780
The head is hollow.

529
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:08.579
It's just leather at the back.

530
00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:09.840
You know.

531
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:19.139
There's nothing behind the eye holes, which is it's a very hard thing to sell when you've just been looking at the eyepieces and they're dark anyway, but you suddenly realise, no, no, no, they're not dark.

532
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.800
They're see-through and there's nothing there. which is terrifying.

533
00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:24.599
That has never occurred to me.

534
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:25.440
No, I didn't see it.

535
00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:27.840
Yeah. watching it on the old release, so that's very interesting.

536
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:31.260
You have to look really closely and you sort of see as his head moves slightly.

537
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:35.219
There's a parallax effect and it's like, oh, that's quite a bit further back.

538
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:40.739
But I do find it interesting that in aliens of London, we get a triple cliff hangout, which is it's all the same cliffhanger.

539
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.780
It's everyone's being threatened by the Slovine.

540
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:46.860
Here we get a double cliffhanger where everyone's being threatened by the gas mask people.

541
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.639
And in a few weeks time in the finale, we get a single cliffhanger.

542
00:42:50.699 --> 00:43:00.840
But it works perfectly because again, it's the playground threat with the upstakes and that's how Moffatt, when he works at his best, deals with what terrified you as a child.

543
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.760
How can I make bring this straight up?

544
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:03.059
No.

545
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:07.559
There's a lot of amateur Freud in the way that Moffin writes, you know, how jolly that guy can be.

546
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:15.659
But the whole thing when you're playing chasings or you're forced into a corner, that thrill and excitement as a child and just how thrilling it was and they'd squeal.

547
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:17.639
But, oh, no, no, no, it's for real this time.

548
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:20.940
But it's also kind of playing the same and they're all a little bit dressed up.

549
00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:23.400
And isn't it?

550
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.239
It's a beautiful thing that the alien monster is actually just a kid in a gimp mask.

551
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:33.420
Yeah It doesn't take a lot of CG or tons of latex to produce that outfit.

552
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:43.980
And it is, you know, like we kind of think that Doctor Who must always have done catchphrases for the alien baddies so that we could play it in the playground, but that's a very moffity thing, really.

553
00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:57.300
Although, where they don't exist, Doctor Who fans tend to make them up anyway, the quest is the quest, the great journey of life, you know, we pick phrases from the monsters and we use them.

554
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:59.760
My entire body aches for it.

555
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:02.639
All praise to the great one.

556
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:04.920
Sorry, I should...

557
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:07.679
And so much time in the playground.

558
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:12.059
Oh, look, praise to the great one.

559
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:29.820
I think what Stephen Moffat does is being a fan, as much as any of us are, he decides, you're going to do this anyway, I'm going to give you something here.

560
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:31.679
And that's the thing at home.

561
00:44:31.739 --> 00:44:37.500
If I want to talk about this story, I don't say the empty child, the doctor dances, because I've said that before to Rodney, he's just sort of squinted at me.

562
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:38.400
I said, are you my mummy?

563
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:39.480
He's like, oh, okay, right.

564
00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:40.139
Yeah, I like that.

565
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:43.860
Well, I think the show itself will call back that catchphrase twice.

566
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.519
Yes.

567
00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:45.239
Yes, yes.

568
00:44:45.300 --> 00:45:05.519
But the other thing I love about that cliffhanger, at least to me, it seems there's a deliberate visual reference to the 1980s invasion of the body snatchers with Donald Sutherland because the pod people in there act in a very similar way, just when they're sort of milling around.

569
00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:08.400
And then they do the whole screech thing.

570
00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:12.480
And instead, the screech here is mummy, mummy, are you my mummy?

571
00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:13.139
are you my mummy?

572
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:13.860
Are you my mummy?

573
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:15.780
And they can say other things.

574
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:20.159
Like at the beginning of the story, Jamie says, balloon. you know in a very childlike way.

575
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:25.380
And next week he'll be much more articulate and perhaps even a little scarier for that reason.

576
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.340
Yeah, yeah.

577
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.780
But the catchphrase continues over the credits just slightly.

578
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.260
I don't think that the sound ends when the sting comes in.

579
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:35.099
I think it's still going.

580
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:09.360
Well, dear listener, it looks like we'll be stuck in this hospital ward for the next week or so, so I'm off to find some bandages and rubbing alcohol.

581
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:13.079
We'll see you next week for the second part of this story, the doctor dances.

582
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:21.719
In the meantime, you can find us at Flight through Entirety.com, flight through Entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FT podcast on Twitter.

583
00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:28.980
Over on Bondfinger, you can find any number of James Bond commentary podcasts covering every era of the film series and more.

584
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:34.440
That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

585
00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:39.840
Until next time, may you meet a tall, dark and handsome stranger willing to give you some Spock.

586
00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:41.699
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

587
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.539
Good night.

588
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:44.219
I'm just after a bed pan.

589
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:45.059
I'll see you then.

590
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:56.820
That was Flight for Entirety starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane Orberg.

591
00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:04.019
This episode, Debbie Watling hanging from a crane, was recorded on the 22nd of July 2018, and released on the 21st of October.

592
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:15.300
If you're tired of our all considered takes on Doctor Who series one, why not listen to Jody Interterterra, which features our ill-considered takes on Doctor Who series 11.

593
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:19.980
That's Jodyintaterra.com and Jody Intaterra on Apple Podcasts.

594
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.739
Just wait one sec.

595
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.400
It was Calvin bringing snacks.

596
00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:27.300
I got excited.

597
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:28.739
It's a sex pit.

598
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:31.320
Bobby, outside mate.

599
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:32.099
Come on.

600
00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:34.559
That's sex pics.

601
00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:37.019
Look at all that cake stuff over there.

602
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.039
It's an interesting house.

603
00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:40.019
I know you're listening to this, aren't you?

604
00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:47.460
I did look over there earlier and think, is that cake, but I think it's some kind of soap. same difference.

605
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.539
What is in that box?

606
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:50.219
Is that cake?

607
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.360
Is that soap?

608
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:52.739
Hey, I was right.

609
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:55.320
I did a soap thing.

610
00:47:55.380 --> 00:48:00.900
So, um, we have...

611
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.119
Well, you know, Brexit is coming.

612
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:05.880
We'll be living on that.

613
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:10.800
Speaking of which, there's going to, this is just going to be a little tintinabulation.

614
00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:12.179
This is a little fairy bell.

615
00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:17.940
We're going to be seeing a lot more of these sorts of dramas come a year or 2 hands.

616
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:20.940
We were nostalgic for when we won.

617
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:23.159
For rationing.

618
00:48:23.219 --> 00:48:24.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

619
00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:30.000
So we have an episode where the entire tag is just Alfie interrupting Brendan.

620
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:33.179
Is that it just then?

621
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:35.940
Yeah, so I just pull the toddler fence across.

622
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.219
He did start doing...

623
00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:39.659
The topclophane defence.

624
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:40.079
Yes.

625
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.039
So, so Captain Jack, yeah.