WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:35:44 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.780 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the 2 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:43.259 only Doctor Who podcast, which absolutely doesn't get the whole 3 00:00:43.259 --> 00:00:44.700 Don't Wander off thing. 4 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:46.140 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:47.880 Sorry, I wandered off. 6 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:48.479 Brendan. 7 00:00:48.539 --> 00:00:51.719 And I'm just trying this out, but I'm feeling the latex is pushing 8 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:52.560 up my throat a bit. 9 00:00:54.060 --> 00:00:59.219 So we've taped up the windows, put Dane Vera Lynn on the wireless 10 00:00:59.219 --> 00:01:01.859 and we're cowering in a shelter with nothing for company, but a 11 00:01:01.859 --> 00:01:03.240 massive roast leg of pork. 12 00:01:03.299 --> 00:01:05.760 It must be time for the empty child. 13 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:31.920 Now, you see, if it were modern dress, if we were doing this in 14 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:35.819 modern dress, we'd actually have Gracie Fields rotating away. 15 00:01:35.819 --> 00:01:40.500 You know that Lisa Stansfield, who is Gracie Field's niece and a 16 00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:42.659 certain J.D. Whittaker all come from the same little bit. 17 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:47.640 Oh, and they all have exactly the same accent, which I'm not going 18 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:48.120 to try and do. 19 00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:49.620 That's exactly the same. 20 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:49.859 Yes. 21 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.459 We don't know when this is going out exactly, but it's entirely 22 00:01:53.459 --> 00:01:57.000 possible that you, dear listener, have already seen Jody in 23 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:57.239 action. 24 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:02.879 Yes, which would be rather apropos, because as we record, we've 25 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.480 just seen her in action for the 1st time in the Comic Con trailer 26 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.620 and stealing a catwalk. 27 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:11.939 It's a hot topic. 28 00:02:12.900 --> 00:02:17.699 Actually, the t-shirt I'm wearing right now, I got from Hot Topic 29 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:20.939 while I was in America, because Hot Topic do all sorts of geeky 30 00:02:20.939 --> 00:02:25.199 things, and I'm wearing a t-shirt that has the 1st 12 slash 13 31 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.860 Doctor Who's, because it does have Peter Capaldi and John Hurt on 32 00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:29.099 there. 33 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:31.979 It doesn't have Jodie Whittaker. going to scrawl her on here. 34 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:34.020 Go to wall scrawl my own shirt. 35 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.180 You can actually just colour in Peter Davidson. 36 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:39.300 Give him slightly longer hair. 37 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:39.599 Yes. 38 00:02:39.659 --> 00:02:40.620 I think not even. 39 00:02:40.620 --> 00:02:42.539 She was the P. 40 00:02:42.539 --> 00:02:43.259 Davidson all the time. 41 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.539 No, I think the same person does their highlights. 42 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.219 That's definitely a thing. 43 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:51.479 I'm just waiting for the 1st fanboy online to say, who on earth 44 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.479 you know, what Doctor Who has ever had their hair blonded and 45 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:55.080 bleached? 46 00:02:55.139 --> 00:02:56.580 Where and where are we? 47 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:57.360 Colin Baker. 48 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.919 Possibly even Billy, if... 49 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.879 Well, actually, there was a lovely gilded rinse on Mr. Pertwe this 50 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:09.659 week on day of the Daleks, day of the Daleks. 51 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:11.879 Was that your weekly viewing? 52 00:03:11.939 --> 00:03:12.300 Yes. 53 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:13.979 I'm currently up to Pertz. 54 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.139 And yes, yes, there's definitely a gilded hue. 55 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:17.879 So yeah, it's been going on for quite a while. 56 00:03:17.939 --> 00:03:20.939 Hey, cover everything on this planet. 57 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.360 It numb in baker light. 58 00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:25.439 We cover it in bake light. 59 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:25.979 We do. 60 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:29.580 So this isn't the 1st time that we've been back to the 2nd World 61 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:29.939 War. 62 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:33.419 It was something that the show kind of avoided, partly because I 63 00:03:33.419 --> 00:03:36.840 think it was just, you know, kind of the recent past when the show 64 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:37.259 began. 65 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:38.759 Yes, yeah. 66 00:03:38.819 --> 00:03:41.819 I think we've mentioned this way, way back in the dawn of single 67 00:03:41.819 --> 00:03:48.719 digit episodes that the 1st World War 2 story looted was Operation 68 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:54.120 Werewolf, which was conceived by Douglas Campfield for Patrick 69 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.780 Troughton. 70 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:58.800 And yet, the whole reason that was turned down was actually, this 71 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:02.520 is quite recent too soon. too soon. 72 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:04.800 And Mr. Letts agreed with that, didn't he? 73 00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:05.400 Yes, yeah. 74 00:04:05.460 --> 00:04:05.939 Yeah. 75 00:04:05.939 --> 00:04:06.479 Yeah. 76 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:09.360 And Douglas sort of said, oh, yes, yes, I take your point. 77 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:10.319 Absolutely fair enough. 78 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:14.400 But yes, yeah, I think they weren't allowed to go back to World 79 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.800 War 2 until 1989. 80 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.100 So it was like 40 odd years was deemed. 81 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:21.420 Yeah, all right, we can do that now. 82 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.980 And I think that that's a sort of cart milish thing is to sort of 83 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:29.040 set stories in a much more recent past. 84 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:32.399 And that's something that the new series has obviously sort of 85 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:33.540 been able to do. 86 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:40.019 How do we think the production goes at recreating 1940. 87 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:44.579 Well, I think you could ask, how does the production go recreating 88 00:04:44.579 --> 00:04:45.360 2005? 89 00:04:45.899 --> 00:04:48.660 And it goes because it's so long ago. 90 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:49.980 And it goes the same way. 91 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:53.220 I really find watching these because we haven't talked about 92 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:56.279 watching the new shoe yet, have we other than Rose? 93 00:04:56.339 --> 00:04:59.399 And it does feel like a completely new and fresh thing. 94 00:04:59.459 --> 00:05:04.259 And seeing it now, it is the human drama, and it is soap, it large 95 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:07.079 but it's bigger than soap, and the characters are somewhat 96 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:11.100 hapertrophied and intensely coloured in a way much like the 97 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:13.139 Whitaker posters of the new companion. 98 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:17.279 Oh, sorry, best friends. are also that intensely coloured thing. 99 00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:20.160 It's very different from what we end up with just a few years 100 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.639 later when we see an animated comic strip under the next producer 101 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:27.420 where the characters become somewhat less fleshed and 2D. This is 102 00:05:27.420 --> 00:05:28.319 hyper real. 103 00:05:28.379 --> 00:05:30.060 And it's the same with 1940. 104 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.120 The way they present 2005 is the way they present 1940. 105 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:37.139 And intense, just that point, maybe, between childhood and 106 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:40.259 adolescence, where everything is saturated with emotion and 107 00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:40.680 colour. 108 00:05:40.740 --> 00:05:42.600 And that's the experience I'm getting from this. 109 00:05:42.660 --> 00:05:46.680 I'd forgotten how good this 1st RTD series really is. 110 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:47.759 Absolutely. 111 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:51.600 And how good Eccleston is and how he isn't he isn't gurning face 112 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.899 forward as Amanda Ianucci was always joking about at the time. 113 00:05:54.899 --> 00:06:00.060 He was constantly pushing jokes armed about Eccleston's gurneying 114 00:06:00.060 --> 00:06:01.199 into the lens. 115 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:03.300 I'm not finding that at all. 116 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.040 I actually feel he's holding back a bit. 117 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:08.279 Yeah, something that Christopher Eccleston has said in recent 118 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.579 years that he felt he got wrong was comedy. 119 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.300 But I think he pictures comedy perfectly. 120 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:20.579 Yeah, we have that bit in the cocktail bar at the beginning, which 121 00:06:20.579 --> 00:06:23.639 I remember seeing that in 2005. 122 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.360 And that's one of the moments to see it on my memory because the 123 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.060 doctor standing in the doorway watching the singer. 124 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:33.480 And I remember just sitting there going, so is she going to be 125 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:39.420 sort of the Cathica of this story or the Harriet Jones MP for 126 00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:40.019 Flydale North? 127 00:06:40.139 --> 00:06:42.000 Is she going to be the main character because there's a bit of 128 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:43.259 flirtation going on? 129 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.740 But Stephen Moffatt just brilliantly then throws her away. 130 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.959 You know, we have this glamorous nightclub singer. 131 00:06:49.019 --> 00:06:50.040 But no, we're not gonna follow her. 132 00:06:50.100 --> 00:06:52.680 We're going to follow this street urchin later on. 133 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:55.740 But then Eccleston gets up on stage and does his whole bit of has 134 00:06:55.740 --> 00:06:57.600 anything fallen out of the sky recently. 135 00:06:57.660 --> 00:07:00.060 The semitones fell very flat. 136 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.279 I hope she ended up with the alley cats. 137 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:06.660 But that's the whole thing of, you know, that scene is immensely 138 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:07.019 funny. 139 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:12.240 And the only funny bit Eccleston gets is just his sort of sigh at 140 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.180 the end when he realises how hard it's going to be to find 141 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:16.620 something that's fallen out of the sky. 142 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:19.860 And I think Eccleston pitches that perfectly. 143 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.240 It's what Tom Baker said Nicholas Courtney was so good at in that 144 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.180 Nicholas Courtney, quite often when he was getting a funny line 145 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:31.259 didn't get the joke, but just kind of played it as completely 146 00:07:31.259 --> 00:07:31.980 straight. 147 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:35.939 This week I've been watching the new season 12 box set. 148 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:39.360 And Tom says on the commentary, like Nicholas Courtney's last line 149 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.180 in robot of, oh, yes, well, I suppose I'll tell Her Majesty you'll 150 00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:42.600 be a little late. 151 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.720 According to Tom Nick didn't get that that was funny. 152 00:07:45.899 --> 00:07:50.040 But he said that, you know, that's why Nicholas Courtney is so 153 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.620 funny because he doesn't know he's being funny. 154 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:54.540 And when you say to him, oh, Nick, that was hilarious. 155 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:56.519 He would just sort of defer and demure it. 156 00:07:56.579 --> 00:07:57.360 Oh, what's a Tokyo? 157 00:07:57.420 --> 00:08:01.500 It's one of Tom's sticks or tropes. about other actors. 158 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.360 He said it constantly of Arthur Lowe. 159 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:07.319 That the reason he was so brilliant in comedy and he was one of 160 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.540 Tom's favourite comedic actors. 161 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.839 Artholow, of course, played Captain Mannering in Dad's Army. 162 00:08:12.899 --> 00:08:13.439 Yes. 163 00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:17.040 He didn't even prepare this earlier. 164 00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:20.279 It's just this beautiful solidipity. of not knowing what you're 165 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:20.519 doing. 166 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:23.819 And we can't say that of this season because we know how many 167 00:08:23.819 --> 00:08:26.339 rewrites went into every damn scene we're watching. 168 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:28.139 So, yeah. 169 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.860 And of course, this has probably been mentioned on every episode 170 00:08:31.860 --> 00:08:35.700 this year, but every episode of this season was underrunning by 5 171 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:36.120 minutes. 172 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:41.039 And so you get scenes that were added in at a later date. 173 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:43.200 I think this episode suffered less than others. 174 00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:46.980 I don't know of any scenes that were filler in this episode, but 175 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:48.480 I'll talk about some next episode. 176 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:53.039 I've heard it said that the next time trailers are the result of 177 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:53.519 that as well. 178 00:08:53.580 --> 00:08:54.240 Exactly. 179 00:08:54.299 --> 00:08:58.620 I mean, that is something that Russell did do in both Queer as 180 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:00.120 folk and in the 2nd coming. 181 00:09:00.179 --> 00:09:02.399 I don't know about Casanova. 182 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:05.940 And I actually quite like it because it gives us a 2nd cliffhanger 183 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:09.779 I think, or a cliffhanger in episodes that wouldn't otherwise have 184 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:12.419 one, a way of getting strategic next week. 185 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:16.620 This, of course, is Stephen Moffatt's 1st contribution to the 186 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:17.159 program. 187 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.220 And he's someone who will go on to be the person who has written 188 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:23.220 more Doctor Who screen time than anyone else. 189 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:28.980 He beats Robert Holmes at some point during series 9, I want to 190 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:29.220 say. 191 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:34.860 Um, And just like the other stories this season, This is the story 192 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.279 that Stephen Moffat had wanted to write for Doctor Who, I think 193 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:43.139 for, you know, decades, literally, everyone is bringing to the 194 00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:46.980 show the thing that they most wanted to do during the wilderness 195 00:09:46.980 --> 00:09:47.639 years. 196 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:53.220 And it does have the moffety tropes in it, but in a way that we're 197 00:09:53.220 --> 00:09:54.600 not sort of sick of yet. 198 00:09:54.659 --> 00:10:00.240 And I think, I think, particularly, I remember, do you remember 199 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:06.000 the 1st episode leaked onto the internet, uh, rose leaked onto the 200 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.779 internet and was sort of made available and some unscrupulous 201 00:10:09.779 --> 00:10:17.039 people, none of whom we know or, you know, indeed are, um, sort of 202 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:18.299 watch it beforehand. 203 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:21.000 But after at least, Stephen Moffat actually came out to Sydney and 204 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:24.600 did a Doctor Who day event, and I had the opportunity to speak to 205 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:24.840 him. 206 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:28.320 And being a big fan of press game, the 1st thing I asked him was 207 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.539 so do you do a telephone gag? 208 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:38.220 And of course he does. sort of very early on we get the TARDIS 209 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:41.340 exterior phone ringing for the 1st time. 210 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:46.379 It's perfectly realised and perfectly articulated and also paced. 211 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:49.019 It feels like an Herge comic to me. 212 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:52.559 It's as if Tantown was actually played by Eccleston and set in 213 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.340 Britain, World War II. the pace and the action and the high 214 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:56.879 points. 215 00:10:56.940 --> 00:10:58.799 There's a high point of drama or action. 216 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:00.600 Almost every 3rd beat. 217 00:11:00.659 --> 00:11:02.039 Bang, bang, bang, there's another event. 218 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:06.000 And it's expensive to look at, and it's complex and it's timed 219 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:06.539 perfectly. 220 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.360 And the thing, if we're going to get onto, maybe it's too soon, but 221 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.179 the thing that holds all together for me, is not the introduction 222 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:12.600 of Jack. 223 00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:13.620 It's not even Eccleston. 224 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:14.580 It's Billy. 225 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.659 It's Billy, it's Billy's vault facing and actually throwing, she 226 00:11:18.659 --> 00:11:22.559 throws more lines away than she, much more than Eccles does with 227 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:23.039 comedy. 228 00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:26.399 They both actually have a kind of two-handed style that they're 229 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:27.539 mirroring each other. 230 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.899 He separates them both really quite quickly. 231 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.100 And they don't actually meet up until the end of the episode. 232 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.340 So they get sort of different things to do. 233 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.879 And so you get Eccleston sort of wandering around, really just 234 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.840 learning about the world that he's in, uh, and, you know, meeting 235 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:50.100 Nancy and experiencing an air raid and all that sort of thing. 236 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:53.279 And then you get that sort of spectacular scene, which is 237 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:58.440 something that, again, Moffatt is famous for pushing further what 238 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.759 could appear on screen, uh, and that incredible scene where she's 239 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.360 hanging from a barrage balloon during an air raid and that there 240 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.820 are German sort of bombers going past her. 241 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:13.139 And I don't think for a 2nd that that scene looks realistic. 242 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:14.039 No, not at all. 243 00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:15.899 It feels ailing level, really. 244 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.360 Yeah, that's the thing, though. 245 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:23.580 It feels like a 1940s war movie and they're being very careful 246 00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:27.059 with the special effects in that there's only a few shots where 247 00:12:27.059 --> 00:12:31.200 the Billy and the planes are in the same shot and the rest of the 248 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:34.559 time, you know, it's Billy Piper hoisted up on a crane in the 249 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.139 middle of the night above a crash mat, you know? 250 00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:43.200 I love that because it does have that level of adventure that 251 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:48.059 we've come to expect from this new incarnation of the show. 252 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.580 And I think there's a bit of serendipity involved because I 253 00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:55.320 remember at the time with Aliens of London, World War 3, there was 254 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:59.700 a disappointment in the viewership that the 2nd episode was pretty 255 00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:01.559 much about the doctor being locked in a cupboard. 256 00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:05.940 So this time instead, they're kind of pushing the boat out. 257 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.179 I don't know if the production team felt that, okay, no, we need 258 00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:13.559 to have a more action-packed two-parter than the two-parter we've 259 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:13.980 already had. 260 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:15.360 Yeah, viewed it all as a whole. 261 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:16.259 Yeah, yeah. 262 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.820 It was all in the can before it was shown. 263 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:19.320 That's true. yeah. 264 00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:22.980 But yeah, we get that action set piece straight away. 265 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:27.600 I love the bantering we get before that of do a scan for alien 266 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:27.960 tech. 267 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.299 Give me give me some Spock. 268 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.299 And the sort of thrill that in the Doctor Who universe. 269 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:35.340 Star Trek is a television program, you know. 270 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:36.600 That was a thrill. 271 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:37.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 272 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:42.000 Yeah, all of that Joss Whedon thing of citing modern stuff. 273 00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:42.960 Yeah. 274 00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:44.940 My goodness, we're modern now. 275 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.419 And it was sort of part of the program's sort of rebit. 276 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:53.039 I mean, there's a very definite buffy vibe to rose in that 1st 277 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:53.639 episode. 278 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:57.840 Like I, Moffatt doesn't strike me as a massive Star Trek fan. 279 00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:00.240 But it is a really sort of fun thing. 280 00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:04.919 And the way it pays off, of course, she meets Captain Jack, who is 281 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:09.539 like the doctor only sort of sexier and more sort of self 282 00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:12.899 confident and a little bit less kind of ramshackle and haphazard. 283 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:17.279 And obviously we'll talk more about how that turns out in the next 284 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:17.759 episode. 285 00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:21.720 But I think that that 1st scene, obviously, is, you know, something 286 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.720 that a show could never have conceived of doing before. 287 00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:28.620 Like, you know, you couldn't have had Debbie Wattling hanging from 288 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:34.860 a crane with some sort of air fix, you know, model planes on wise 289 00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:36.360 sort of seeing pasta. 290 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:37.919 We could never have had that before. 291 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:39.419 And it does look great. 292 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.940 Not with her notorious Nick or Elastic. 293 00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:45.840 I'm just imagining that now, Victoria hanging from there. 294 00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:47.639 Oh, Jimmy, you're swine. you're swine. 295 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.840 Could I just say one more thing about that 1st scene before we 296 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:52.259 move on? 297 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:58.259 It's the 2nd reset. we get this year because Dalek at episode 6 298 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:01.200 that was seen as a 2nd opening night. 299 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:01.860 Yeah. 300 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:06.419 And this one about two-thirds of the way through the series. 301 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.679 In the 1st scene, we get an explanation of what the psychic paper 302 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:10.980 is. 303 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.340 We get the doctor saying 900 years of phone box travel. 304 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:15.960 We get don't wander off. 305 00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:17.580 We get, I don't have a name. 306 00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:22.080 All the kind of things you need to know about these characters. 307 00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:24.059 We get in the 1st 5 minutes. 308 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:29.580 And I think this is a conscious thing of, you know, people know 309 00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:31.740 that the Daleks are going to come in, they might start watching 310 00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:33.179 from this point. 311 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.100 People know the end of the series is coming up. 312 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.980 They might start watching at this point and it's very cleverly 313 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:38.340 done. 314 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:43.379 It never quite feels as bad as you well know, Bob, kind of thing. 315 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.860 I think the psychic paper is a bit of an asthma. 316 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.559 And I think she says, yes, I know or something. 317 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:53.100 I think that that's really interesting given that from our point 318 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:56.220 of view, we're about to see a season that's presenting itself as a 319 00:15:56.220 --> 00:16:00.240 reboot in a place where you can onboard, but now instead of 320 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.019 happening 3 times a season, we get those, you know, every 3 321 00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:05.039 seasons or so. 322 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:06.659 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 323 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.440 I think series 10 was very much designed as a place you could 324 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:11.580 start watching. 325 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.759 But before that, what series 5 was maybe. 326 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.259 So, yeah, I think that one of the charming things about this 327 00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:21.659 season is they don't know that it's going to be a massive 328 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:22.139 success. 329 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.320 They don't know whether anyone's gonna want to watch it at all. 330 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:31.919 And so they're a little bit less kind of cocky. you know, and much 331 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:37.080 much more careful about not putting the audience off and giving 332 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:38.460 the audience an in. 333 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.159 And I think that that's definitely right here. 334 00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:42.600 Yeah, yeah. 335 00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:52.200 Movin is already famous, I think, for his romantic comedy staff. 336 00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:55.799 And we've got some of that, I think, in series 8 in all of those 337 00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:00.059 stories that he co-authored, but here he gets. coupling with bow 338 00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:00.600 ties. 339 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:01.620 Yes. 340 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.259 They really are the same. 341 00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:04.799 No offence. 342 00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:06.660 Maybe on the same show. 343 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:11.099 But I think he does a great job here, and I think Billy sells the 344 00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:13.319 hell out of it when she 1st meets Jack. 345 00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:17.460 There's that wonderful thing where he says, oh, you know, you look 346 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:18.900 like you're about to faint. 347 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.420 And then she says... 348 00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:21.900 What about you? 349 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.000 You're not even in focus and then she fails. 350 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:26.819 Yeah. 351 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.160 And yeah, I love things like, can you please switch off your 352 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:29.819 mobile phone? 353 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.940 No, really, it interferes with my instruments. stays with me. 354 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:33.420 Yeah. 355 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:34.799 It's perfect scripting. 356 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:38.220 Moffat just shows how brilliant he really is when he's given 12 357 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:39.299 months to do one story. 358 00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:42.480 There'll be more of this anon. 359 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:48.660 Yeah, but at the time, this just felt so fresh and no Doctor Who 360 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:52.559 writer had done the kind of things that Moff doesn't. weren't 361 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:52.859 allowed to. 362 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:53.880 And it wasn't even. 363 00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:55.500 It wasn't even Doctor Who. 364 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.819 It was really until Secret Army. 365 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:58.500 The BBC didn't tackle this stuff. 366 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.940 You've got to remember, the people working on the show, in our day 367 00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:07.259 in the 1970s, grew up at a time, British film didn't talk about 368 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:09.359 evacuations during the war. 369 00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:14.759 It didn't talk about allied pilots or allied soldiers from Europe 370 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:15.900 working with. 371 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.420 There were whole lots of things that were not discussed. 372 00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.299 Any of the concentration terrible business. 373 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.640 That was never referred to, although they knew about it, the 374 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.059 bodies. 375 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.720 So British wartime films, which this is very much and yes, I'm 376 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:27.900 back. 377 00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:32.099 This is very, very much sourcing visually with little high note 378 00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:32.460 jokes. 379 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:37.680 So you got it with the static horizontal line model shock work 380 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.740 which is very much how these things were done. 381 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.140 Although there are some beautiful, and the Danbusters is a lot of 382 00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:44.819 model work and it looks gorgeous. 383 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:51.480 So this then jumps out of the TV screen and throws us into the 3rd 384 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:52.440 or whatever dimension. 385 00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:53.039 We're up to. 386 00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:57.660 Now, by exploring what if, and the what if is in the presence of 387 00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:58.319 Nancy. 388 00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:02.279 And I believe that Moffat will always put himself in apotheosis in 389 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:03.420 a script, but as a girl. 390 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.400 I think he's Nancy. 391 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.380 I think he's always puts himself in as the girl. 392 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.420 I think, and they're always the best parts. 393 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.000 I think as we own Carrie Mulligan. 394 00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:15.420 I believe that that's also Mufford's voice in Blink, because we're 395 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:16.259 getting up to, so. 396 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:17.579 Yeah, always. 397 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.640 Or he's, if you like, Moffatt was doing mindfulness before the 398 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:25.079 rest of us, but his mindfulness is a very smart. swanky, sarcastic 399 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:28.500 Julia Swala, who's always just, you know, perched on your shoulder 400 00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:28.920 in the room. 401 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.880 That's a position. 402 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.799 Go to go on. 403 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:37.740 Getting back to that, just let me drop another name here. 404 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.599 The same name again. 405 00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:42.839 Getting back to that conversation with Stephen Moffatt that I 406 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:43.319 actually got to have. 407 00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:46.200 Was this while you were holding Camille Kajuri's handbag as well? 408 00:19:46.259 --> 00:19:48.180 before I neck come in. 409 00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:53.880 He was super proud of the gags about Eccleston's nose and ears. 410 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.279 Oh, that he puts in Nancy's mouth. 411 00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:57.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 412 00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.400 And that is quite a mouthful. 413 00:19:59.460 --> 00:19:59.819 Yeah. 414 00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:03.720 You know, being that I'm back on the podcast, I have to mention 415 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:05.400 the silent podcast partner. 416 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:06.960 So watching this the other night with Rod. 417 00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:11.819 Who, of course, for once in this story, made no comments about 418 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:16.319 homoeroticism, but did say... actual homosexuality. 419 00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:17.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 420 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:20.400 He just turned to me at one point. the whole reason this story 421 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:21.480 works is her. 422 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:22.799 And he pointed at Nancy. 423 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.519 Florence Hoef does an amazing job as Nancy. 424 00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:27.960 Extraordinary child actress. 425 00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:29.220 She's 67 in this. 426 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.079 Amazing word. 427 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:32.759 Deborah Watling is here. 428 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:39.480 But what makes her work so well is we get a few characters this 429 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:45.000 season who are characters who need to step up and be extraordinary 430 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.200 often quite reluctantly. 431 00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:49.500 So we get Kathika, who just, you know, leave me out of it. 432 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.140 I don't want to be part of this, but steps up and saves the day. 433 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.259 We get Harriet Jones, who is overwhelmed, but steps up and saves 434 00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:55.619 the day. 435 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.039 When the doctor arrives in this story, Nancy has already stepped 436 00:20:59.039 --> 00:20:59.400 up. 437 00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:03.839 You know, she has suffered a tragedy, and so she is looking after 438 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.920 these children, and the scene around the dinner table is so 439 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.220 charming where despite the fact that they are coming into this 440 00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:13.200 home and taking the food. 441 00:21:13.259 --> 00:21:16.319 She's like, we will not make negative remarks about the people in 442 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:20.700 this house, and we will each only take one piece, and we will wash 443 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:21.779 up when we are done. 444 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:23.819 You know, she doesn't, though. 445 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.079 No, no, she doesn't. 446 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.500 Dinner is interrupted. 447 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.640 And we get that lovely bit where the doctor's suddenly around the 448 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.640 table and Nancy is just cool and unflappable about that. 449 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:37.319 Don't worry about him. 450 00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:38.460 He's not meant to be here either. 451 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.200 He's not here to arrest us. 452 00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:41.039 He's not a copper. 453 00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:46.619 But yet, she's just so charming and brave and funny and vulnerable 454 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:49.500 and all those things we like in Doctor Who characters. 455 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.740 Yeah, I mean, we'll see next week though, that she still does have 456 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:56.700 to overcome something and is inspired by the doctor to step up. 457 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:01.380 There was a big complaint, I think, when this series 1st aired 458 00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:03.839 that the doctor didn't seem to solve any of the problems. 459 00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.480 But I think it's really deliberate. 460 00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:10.559 And, uh, you know, that over and over again, Mickey is another 461 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:15.180 example in World War 3 where someone is reluctant, but they're 462 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:16.980 inspired by the doctor to be better. 463 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.759 And, you know, John Sim makes fun of that when he comes as the 464 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.299 master in a couple of years time, where he sneers at the doctor 465 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:28.380 for choosing the name doctor, the person who makes people better. 466 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:33.240 But I think that that's so much more interesting than just having 467 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.859 a superhero come in and waiver thing and joins and wires together 468 00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:41.400 and stuff like in power of growl and everything sort of picks. 469 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.099 Throw the, just LSU tech leaf. 470 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.400 Yeah, it is true, isn't it? 471 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.319 But that was what Tom did so well. 472 00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:53.400 Except when he was when he knew he was doing it. 473 00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.619 And then he just said, no, bugger this, I'm not going to. 474 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:58.859 He had a whole bit of that Peter Cook and Dudley Moore thing is 475 00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:00.359 well, I don't know if you're going to pay me to do it. 476 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.019 I'm not going to. 477 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.900 So again, that's why we still have dialects. 478 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:05.640 It's not has to do with Rob Schumann. 479 00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:07.200 It says bloody fuse wires. 480 00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.599 It's 3 amp fuse wise. 481 00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:10.380 He just refused. 482 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:10.799 Honestly. 483 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.259 This is before the threat of Brexit. 484 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.720 I mean, maybe there just weren't enough Polish electricians in the 485 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:20.160 Khalid bumper, but really, I've been catching up on Doctor Who and 486 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:22.019 Dark Eyes from Big Finish. 487 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.559 And there's, there's a few, there's a few references in that 488 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.900 basically, whenever the doctor complains about the Daleks, a Time 489 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:28.799 Lord will say to him. 490 00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:31.440 Well, if you'd done your job properly, we wouldn't be having this 491 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:32.099 conversation. 492 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.079 Twice really. 493 00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:41.339 Well, that also starts off with a lovely wartime theme. 1st 494 00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:42.359 episode. my favourite thing. 495 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:43.740 And very interestingly. 496 00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:49.680 Usually when Doctor Who goes back to World War 2 with one notable 497 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.480 exception, which we'll talk about in a few years. 498 00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:54.779 But usually when it goes back to World War II, it avoids showing 499 00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:56.519 the Nazis. 500 00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:59.099 They are this off-screen. 501 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.359 Yeah, I agree as well. 502 00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:03.119 It's because, and we mentioned this back in cursor, Fenrick. 503 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:08.160 I think if you are going to show them, it can be difficult to tell 504 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:13.980 a story and get across just how vile they were as an ideological 505 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:15.480 and physical force. 506 00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.079 Indiana Jones does it very well because the whole thing is comic 507 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:21.059 book and kind of pastiche. 508 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.299 And it's writ large and it has a momentum behind it that sweeps 509 00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:24.900 everyone along. 510 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.619 Exactly. 511 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.680 Otherwise, you end up with, if you do it on the small screen, LOL. 512 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:29.700 Yeah. 513 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:35.220 Yeah, it's like, yeah, you can only kind of do it as fast or as 514 00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:39.180 yeah, the weird thing is with Indiana Jones, the Nazis come in and 515 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:42.599 make it a lot more serious than it was, and they raise the stakes 516 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.839 you know, whereas it's a jolly romp, and then the Nazis turn up 517 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.339 and, oh my god, this is deadly serious. 518 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:51.359 Whereas I think if you tried that in Doctor Who, it would rob some 519 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:52.259 of the magic of it. 520 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.720 So having them as this offscreen force is much better. 521 00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:56.339 They're barely mentioned. 522 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.480 I think the doctor mentions Hitler in like next episode. 523 00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:03.539 I don't think anyone actually uses the word Nazi in this story. 524 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.519 I think it's the right idea. 525 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:09.180 I mean, you know, we think that Doctor Who is very important. and 526 00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:12.000 serious and things, but it really doesn't have the dramatic weight 527 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.500 to deal with nancism. 528 00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.920 And I think that attempting to get it to do it is a mistake. 529 00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:22.380 Do you remember years ago, there was this talk about, I think Paul 530 00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:25.740 Cornell suggested that the 7th doctor was the only doctor who had 531 00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:30.720 the moral gravity to walk through a concentration camp. 532 00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:34.079 But I think that that's completely wrong. 533 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:37.619 I think that the doctor has never had that kind of moral gravity 534 00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:43.319 but that's something so horrific and so unimaginable, but it means 535 00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:44.700 it to put it in Doctor Who. 536 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.940 And Doctor Who can deal with that stuff as metaphor, I think 537 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:52.500 really well, and has had kind of rubber suited Nazis in it ever 538 00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:55.859 since the sort of 1960s. although perhaps they were mostly 539 00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:56.460 communists. 540 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:01.019 But I think it's wise to keep them out of this. 541 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:05.759 And they are represented literally by a computer-generated cartoon 542 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.640 in episode one and that's really all we see of them. 543 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:10.079 I agree. 544 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:13.740 It's, it, it, well, we've talked again ostensible threats in 545 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:14.279 Doctor Who. 546 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:15.599 It is about metaphor. 547 00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.660 Well, it's about the child's experience, which is always filtered 548 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:21.000 through other means and other mediums. 549 00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:22.440 That's what Doctor Who is for. 550 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.539 If you are experiencing these horrors 1st off. 551 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:26.640 I don't know the Doctor Who's the place that's going to be able to 552 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:27.839 help you deal with these things. 553 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:29.339 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 554 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:34.859 We learn through inference and metaphor and and other means of 555 00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:35.579 expression. 556 00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:41.579 This one's very musical. 557 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:42.599 What do you think of the score? 558 00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:46.380 Because it does feel like an Elgar triumphal march. 559 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:47.940 Just stomping along. 560 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.539 I think it's a little bit less sort of obviously thematic and 561 00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:54.720 stuff, you know, like it's, there are other stories, I think, that 562 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:57.180 have a more distinctive sound to them. 563 00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.240 But I think that perhaps that's because there's a sort of generic 564 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:04.440 war movie thing going on here that Murray wants to bring out. 565 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:08.400 And he likes throwing in his references, just like, you know, well 566 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.299 indeed anyone, the state of the British composer, to be Lloyd 567 00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:15.900 Webber and just nick anything that no one else is over for a few 568 00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:16.140 years. 569 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:20.339 But there's quite a bit of corn gold and there's quite a bit of 570 00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:24.000 wartime scoring in this generally. which is a great thing. 571 00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:25.740 Why would you want to reboot? 572 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.319 I like to be reminded of a source of material. 573 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:31.500 Yeah, well, I think that there's still an approach. 574 00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:33.599 You know, this isn't gritty. 575 00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:35.160 This isn't in any way realistic. 576 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:36.779 This isn't really the 1940s. 577 00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.180 It's our memories of the 1940s. 578 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.599 I love the couple whose... 579 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:43.559 The Anderson Shelters. 580 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.140 Mr. and Mrs. Lloyd. 581 00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:51.180 They're the Lloyds. with her big kind of freely apron and her sort 582 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:55.019 of angry demeanour and stuff like that and her expostulating 583 00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:57.420 husband and the sound of air raids. 584 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:01.200 And even the nightclub that we mentioned before, which is clearly 585 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.559 some kind of sort of secret speakeasy thing. 586 00:28:04.619 --> 00:28:09.359 Like it's just hidden. behind a door and and it's underground and 587 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:09.720 stuff. 588 00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:14.460 All of that stuff is kind of movie style. 589 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:20.640 I love the bit where they're going into the shelter and Mrs. Lloyd 590 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:21.960 says, get underground. 591 00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:22.740 It's an air raid. 592 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.660 And Mr. Lloyd says, I know it's an air raid. 593 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.119 And that's where Eccleston really lends his own, and I think 594 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.180 that's why, I don't know, he may well be my favourite of the new 595 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:38.400 era doctors so far, is that he does lend gravitas in the middle of 596 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.880 enlightness as well. with the duality of that in the middle of 597 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:42.480 great horror. 598 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:48.299 There were 71 air raids, almost 20,000 Londoners killed twice, you 599 00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:51.960 know, almost twice that injured, and a 1000000 homes destroyed. 600 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:54.599 There was a picture that turned up on Twitter just a couple of 601 00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:58.259 days ago of like London scene from the point of view of St. 602 00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:02.460 Paul's immediately after the war was over and just, you know, block 603 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:05.759 after block of London, 1965. 604 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.799 Oh, blessed Twitch. 605 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.319 I really like what you're saying about wartime movie troops. 606 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:24.059 And no, it was right, not cast Eccleston in this role, but where 607 00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:25.440 was our matinee idol? 608 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:30.240 And it's the 1st and I feel still the best, dare I say, only time 609 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.420 that I have really warmed to the character of Captain Jack. 610 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.019 He just works beautifully and that the positioning is perfect, the 611 00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:38.400 size and shape of him is perfect. 612 00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:41.880 He really is, though, interestingly, the only 2 dimensional 613 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.160 character in a 3 dimension. 614 00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:45.900 Which is as it should be. 615 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:51.180 Something I love about the introduction of Jack is that he's 616 00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:52.140 introduced like a monster. 617 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:54.299 We don't see his face. 618 00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.880 We see him holding the binoculars up and then we see his vision. 619 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:57.720 It's just a flash. 620 00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:01.259 So the 1st thing you think is, hold on, was that like electronic 621 00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:01.740 stuff across it? 622 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.380 And then we get a longer look through the binoculars? 623 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.119 And the thing is, he's spying on Rose. 624 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:07.920 He's spying on the doctor's friend. 625 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.339 So he is introduced like a monster, but then he turns around and 626 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:13.019 we get that matinee idol smile. 627 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:15.839 And of course, in this story, he is an anti-hero. 628 00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:19.740 You know, he is an exploitative character. 629 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.980 So we're not quite sure whether we trust him or not. 630 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:24.839 We like him because Rose likes him. 631 00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:30.119 But, um, even at the end of the story where they don't have much 632 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.000 screen time together, the doctor is very sceptical of him. 633 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:35.579 So we had this tension with the character. 634 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:40.200 The character, of course, was created by Russell T. Davies and 635 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.700 sort of given to Stephen Moffat. 636 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.180 Okay. 637 00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:46.259 But Stephen really streamlined the character because in the 638 00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:52.619 initial outline, he's an alien called Jax, posing as a person 639 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:56.400 Captain Jack Harkness, and Stephen Moffatt streamlined that for 2 640 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.759 reasons. 641 00:30:56.819 --> 00:30:59.700 He's like, Jax is very similar to Jackie. 642 00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.079 And also very early on, Jackie was going to be shortened to Jax. 643 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:06.240 Like her friends would call her Jack. 644 00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:12.000 So J-A-C-K-S, whereas this was J-A-X. And Stephen Moffatt kind of 645 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.420 went, well, if he's called Captain Jack Harkness, you know, why 646 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.180 have that complexity of my real name is Jax. 647 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.200 Well, who cares? 648 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.859 on the planet Z. Yeah, it's like, and Ernst Stavlo Bluff out, you 649 00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:23.099 know? 650 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.640 It's that moment of dramatic reveal for no reason. 651 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:32.640 The other thing was Big Finish had just introduced Hex a couple of 652 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.519 years beforehand, the BBC books had had tricks. 653 00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:38.759 So it's like Doctor Who becomes the show where you have a 654 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.660 character whose name ends with X, which is a sci-fi trope. 655 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.960 So Stephen Moffatt was kind of like, no, no, no, have him as 656 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:50.819 normal on the outside. and then you go beneath the surface and 657 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:52.680 he's a bit odd and a bit strange. 658 00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:56.880 And I think that works really well because he's introduced as this 659 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.599 odd, possibly villainous force, but then the very next thing he 660 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.980 does is turns around and, you know, Pat's one of his army 661 00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:06.119 colleagues on the arse. 662 00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.619 That's where he stops being Walker from dad's army. 663 00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:13.980 With the Hershey Buzz and Nylon stockings and her sets everything 664 00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:14.279 else. 665 00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:17.940 Yeah, and then it becomes very much in modern dress, doesn't it? 666 00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:22.019 Well, that's when we get the sort of fabulous rom-com stuff too. 667 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.680 We do, but we also have to remember that, okay, we're slightly 668 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.799 just beyond the point, but one of the antecedents, this film that 669 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.960 really works for me, and I will be going on about that, is John 670 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.660 Borman's 1987 film Hope and Glory. 671 00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.339 I don't know if any of you remember it. 672 00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.019 I just left school when it was on. 673 00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:41.220 And it was full of wartime nostalgia, but it also touched on the 674 00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:42.359 truths and realities. 675 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:47.279 And the 2 couple going to the Anderson Shelter are exactly 2 676 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.660 characters from hope and glory when woman yells out, boy, Mr 677 00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:53.940 Hitler, go and hit that woman in number 16. 678 00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:54.900 She's a right cow. 679 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.119 Yeah, I miss that was Mrs. Evans. 680 00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:07.319 My favourite line in that film is with the schoolteacher with the 681 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.980 kids all yelling away just as Catherine Tate would do in her own 682 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.859 show and he turns and he yells at them and throws some chalk at 683 00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:17.460 them and says, men are fighting and trying to save all the pink 684 00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.400 bits for you ungrateful little twerps. 685 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.380 And I thought that was proper filthy. 686 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.799 I was 21 and I think it's even filthier now. 687 00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:28.259 It's... 688 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:33.420 It's funny that you mentioned Catherine Tate because for Christmas 689 00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:36.359 last year I bought right a whole heap of Victoria would DBDs. 690 00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:41.700 And there's a bit where she's doing a mock movie tone news in 691 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:44.279 wrecked London during the blitz kind of thing. 692 00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:48.119 And she's playing this housewife and she's standing on a pile of 693 00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.519 rubble, you know, calling back to that famous photo of the 694 00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:53.700 housewife, sipping a cup of tea while sitting on a pile of rubble 695 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:54.660 that used to be her house. 696 00:33:54.660 --> 00:34:00.119 But Victoria Woods says, Yep, we're digging through here because 697 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:03.180 under there is my Christmas pudding, which has been steeping for 6 698 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:05.160 months, and I believe also my husband. 699 00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:07.500 So if we find them both, it will be a very good day. 700 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.420 I think next week we get on a bit more about British attitudes 701 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:27.000 towards the war. when we'll be joined by David Cameron and Porris 702 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:28.260 Johnson and Theresa. 703 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:33.000 I do have to say the other thing Stephen Moffatt does so well here 704 00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:37.619 is he does the throwaway lines that make Doctor Who a bigger 705 00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:40.019 universe so very well. so good at these. 706 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:41.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 707 00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:43.860 Russell will start doing it more, but certainly at the beginning 708 00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:47.039 of the season, There's a big shying away from mentioning other 709 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:47.400 things. 710 00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:51.420 You know, we see a cyberman head in Dalek kind of thing and later 711 00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:55.500 on in the season we're going to get just in a couple of weeks time 712 00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:58.139 my father would have fed me to the venom grubs, you know. 713 00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.679 But here, Stephen Moffatt decides, it's a Chula warship and we've 714 00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:02.880 never heard of a Chula before. 715 00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:07.019 And I spent the rest of the Russell T. Davies era waiting for a 716 00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:08.039 chula to show up. 717 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:09.900 And in my head, can I... 718 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:10.739 Dutch flower people. 719 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:11.760 Yeah. 720 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.179 In my head cannon, until they were named as cat kind. 721 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.679 I thought that the cat people on new earth were the chula. 722 00:35:19.739 --> 00:35:23.039 I thought that's a very that's a very feline name, but then they 723 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.539 were named, you know, the cat kind. 724 00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:25.980 But that's the thing. 725 00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:30.360 My head cannon was that the Chula were these... 726 00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:33.599 We all know they're actually the lost cat people of Gallifrey who 727 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.840 are romping about with Andrew now in the waist, aren't they? 728 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:42.300 It was a restaurant, I think, that the series one writers, an 729 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:44.579 Indian restaurant that they used to go to. 730 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:45.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 731 00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:48.300 It's where all the other writers, except for Russell, went to to 732 00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.519 celebrate their commissions, and apparently where it was Mark 733 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.699 Gators, who said, oh, God, now we actually have to do this, and 734 00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:56.940 now we have to make it work, and now if it sucks, we are going to 735 00:35:56.940 --> 00:36:01.320 be blamed forever more, which, you know, according to Rob Sheaman 736 00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:02.880 really brought the mood down a bit. 737 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.039 Yes, those puppadums didn't crinkle quite so crisply after that 738 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:08.519 didn't they? 739 00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:14.219 Big Finisher's short trips range, which has recently included 740 00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:19.559 Joseph Lidster writing for Camille Kadouri, which are fabulous, and 741 00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:20.579 you should go. 742 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:22.260 I haven't downloaded it, but I haven't listened to it yet. 743 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.480 I need to get back to Joe and tell him how good it was. 744 00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:28.920 But it's also recently had a short story called Erasure, read by 745 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.099 Sean Carlson as Narvan, who's one of the characters from the 746 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:33.119 Gallifrey Audios. 747 00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:37.800 He's a CIA operative, but in his framing narrative for that, when 748 00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.500 he's about to start telling the story, he talks about, you know 749 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:43.559 the crises, the time lords has faced and he mentions, you know, the 750 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:46.920 killer cats of ginseng, but we removed that from the records 751 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:48.659 because it wasn't our proudest moment. 752 00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:53.579 So it references how, you know, we got it the invasion of time. 753 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:57.960 So, you know, they left the invasion of time in, but removed the 754 00:36:57.960 --> 00:36:59.340 killer cats of Ginseng. 755 00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.639 So it tells you how crappy that was. all true. 756 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:08.400 And then Richard Bloody Wilson turns up. as Dr. Constantine. 757 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:12.179 Fave, he's actually, again, after Nancy, my favourite character 758 00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:12.960 piece in this. 759 00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:14.760 It's some amazing cast. 760 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.519 He's so sensitive and poignant, and he plays a proper queer. 761 00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:18.059 Yeah. 762 00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:18.420 Yes. 763 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:20.820 Well, he is an out actor and has been for a long time. 764 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.219 He also, you know who he grew up with and has the fruitiest 765 00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:24.659 stories about Sean Connery. 766 00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:28.380 It's a lovely crossover to our bond finger. that's right. 767 00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:32.579 Which, hopefully by this point, we've got the complete run maybe 768 00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:33.539 by this point. 769 00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:36.179 There's got to be another casino royale that we have. 770 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.860 But no, Richard Wilson is just so warm and charming and I feel 771 00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:44.400 genuine sadness and grief and there's that 2nd point after Nancy's 772 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.219 moments, but that 2nd point that we've seen so far with the little 773 00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:47.699 children. 774 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:50.519 But that just that moment when you can see his illness and you 775 00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:52.320 spot suddenly you spot the scar on his hand. 776 00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:53.099 Yes. 777 00:37:53.099 --> 00:37:54.539 And you realise, oh, he knows. 778 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.099 Yeah, there's that moment too where he says, like before the war, I 779 00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:01.739 was a father and a grandfather and now I'm neither. 780 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.579 And what he's been doing is just been sitting there heroically 781 00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:08.340 looking after these people. playing it as Billy should have. 782 00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:12.239 Yes, he actually cares about his grandchildren. 783 00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.179 But it is incredibly beautiful. 784 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.079 And of course, we're back at Albion Hospital because there is, you 785 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.780 know, there's this tension with Doctor Who because every story is 786 00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:25.139 set in a different place, every episode we're somewhere new. 787 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.480 You know, this episode gives us Big Ben again and it gives us the 788 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:35.699 Albion Hospital back from Aliens of London just to create this 789 00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:39.480 sort of consistent place for the stories to take place in. 790 00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.119 And that scene is proper scary. 791 00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:44.400 And of course, that's one of the things that Moffat will become 792 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:49.980 famous for during his time writing for the RTD era is just how 793 00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:52.440 scary he can make Doctor Who. 794 00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:57.780 The great thing about using that hospital again is it was, it was 795 00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:00.119 a decision based on the fact that they decided to use the same 796 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.199 location because, of course, we've mentioned before that 2 weeks 797 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.260 into filming, production was 3 weeks behind, so they were grateful 798 00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:08.579 of anywhere they could use twice. 799 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:12.480 But they then said, well, if it's the same location, let's make it 800 00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:13.980 the same location. 801 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:15.539 But it occurred to me watching it. 802 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:18.300 It's really good that we never get a line where someone says, oh, I 803 00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:20.699 was, you know, the doctor never says, oh, this is where I met the 804 00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:21.239 pig person. 805 00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:21.840 Yeah. 806 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:26.639 The other reason for that is, last time the doctor was here, he 807 00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:27.599 never saw the place from the outside. 808 00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:29.460 Oh, okay. 809 00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.739 So, you know, there's there's no way he can say that. 810 00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:36.119 But I'm glad he didn't because we, we, the loyal viewer who has 811 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.440 been watching the entire series. 812 00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:40.440 Just get that free song of, hold on, is that? 813 00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:41.280 Yes, that's the same. 814 00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:42.840 It's the same sign at the front? 815 00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:43.679 Yeah, that's the same place. 816 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:48.659 Yeah, it's a lovely little touch and Richard Wilson just comes in 817 00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:49.440 and I love it. 818 00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:53.579 It's quite a common thing when they bring in a classic character 819 00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:54.300 actor. 820 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.940 They will just sit in a chair and they'll rule the entire scene. 821 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:01.199 I know I've mentioned this before, but I saw Diana Rigg in 822 00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:06.360 Pygmalion as Mrs. Higgins, and she would just walk in and sit down 823 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.000 and Rupert Everett would just yield the stage to her. 824 00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:13.980 And Christopher Eccleston kind of does the same thing here. 825 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:17.280 And you can kind of see that Christopher Eccleston goes, I'm with 826 00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:19.500 a really experienced actor who I respect. 827 00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.219 This is your scene, mate, off you go. 828 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.920 And that's the thing, Richard Wilson just comes in. 829 00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:29.099 He sits down, never raises his voice, never shouts or anything 830 00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.440 like that, doesn't play it to the back row, just plays it very 831 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:32.219 subtly. 832 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.940 And there's kind of this weariness to him, obviously, he doesn't 833 00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:37.079 ask to see the doctor's papers. 834 00:40:37.139 --> 00:40:38.820 He doesn't say, are you from the war office? 835 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:43.920 He wants to tell someone and pass on the responsibility because he 836 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:44.699 knows he's changing. 837 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:46.260 He knows he's infected. 838 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.139 So he tells the doctor everything before he changes. 839 00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.980 So, okay mate, over to you, you do something about this. 840 00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:57.719 And the scene is really, really quite scary. 841 00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:01.199 There's a great moment where the doctor asks what the cause of 842 00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:06.360 death is for all these people, and Dr. Constantine just says, there 843 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:09.960 isn't one, and we discover that they're all still alive. 844 00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:11.639 They're all suddenly sitting up. 845 00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:13.019 Yeah, he hits the bucket. 846 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:14.159 Yeah, everyone sits up. 847 00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:16.800 Yeah, it is really proper frightening. 848 00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:19.559 And I guess that brings us to the cliffhanger. 849 00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:24.000 We've had one cliffhanger so far, this series, and it wasn't 850 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.599 perhaps the most elegant cliffhanger in the show's history. 851 00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:29.159 What do we think about this? 852 00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:34.019 We've got a dual cliffhanger where Nancy is being menaced by Jamie 853 00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:38.519 and at the same time we've got Jack, Rose, and the doctor in the 854 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:41.880 hospital being menaced by all of these zombies. 855 00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:43.199 What do we think? 856 00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:44.159 Superb. 857 00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:47.639 Yeah, yeah, I think it's absolutely wonderful. 858 00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:51.539 And something I didn't pick up on until I was watching the upscale 859 00:41:51.539 --> 00:41:52.440 on the Blu-ray. 860 00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:57.780 Um, is that you get a great shot of JB and I think part of the 861 00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:00.840 reason it doesn't come across is just the similarity in texture 862 00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:02.940 but you get a shot through the eyepieces. 863 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.639 And what it's meant to be is he is empty. 864 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:06.780 The head is hollow. 865 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:08.579 It's just leather at the back. 866 00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:09.840 You know. 867 00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:13.139 There's nothing behind the eye holes, which is it's a very hard 868 00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:16.199 thing to sell when you've just been looking at the eyepieces and 869 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:18.780 they're dark anyway, but you suddenly realise, no, no, no, they're 870 00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:19.139 not dark. 871 00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.380 They're see-through and there's nothing there. which is 872 00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:22.800 terrifying. 873 00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:24.599 That has never occurred to me. 874 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:25.440 No, I didn't see it. 875 00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:27.840 Yeah. watching it on the old release, so that's very interesting. 876 00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:30.539 You have to look really closely and you sort of see as his head 877 00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:31.260 moves slightly. 878 00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:34.619 There's a parallax effect and it's like, oh, that's quite a bit 879 00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:35.219 further back. 880 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.219 But I do find it interesting that in aliens of London, we get a 881 00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:40.739 triple cliff hangout, which is it's all the same cliffhanger. 882 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.780 It's everyone's being threatened by the Slovine. 883 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.480 Here we get a double cliffhanger where everyone's being threatened 884 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:46.860 by the gas mask people. 885 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.039 And in a few weeks time in the finale, we get a single 886 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:50.639 cliffhanger. 887 00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:54.300 But it works perfectly because again, it's the playground threat 888 00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:58.260 with the upstakes and that's how Moffatt, when he works at his 889 00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:00.840 best, deals with what terrified you as a child. 890 00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.760 How can I make bring this straight up? 891 00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:03.059 No. 892 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.300 There's a lot of amateur Freud in the way that Moffin writes, you 893 00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.559 know, how jolly that guy can be. 894 00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:10.920 But the whole thing when you're playing chasings or you're forced 895 00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:14.159 into a corner, that thrill and excitement as a child and just how 896 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:15.659 thrilling it was and they'd squeal. 897 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:17.639 But, oh, no, no, no, it's for real this time. 898 00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:20.340 But it's also kind of playing the same and they're all a little 899 00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:20.940 bit dressed up. 900 00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:23.400 And isn't it? 901 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:26.039 It's a beautiful thing that the alien monster is actually just a 902 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:27.239 kid in a gimp mask. 903 00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:32.880 Yeah It doesn't take a lot of CG or tons of latex to produce that 904 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:33.420 outfit. 905 00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:37.019 And it is, you know, like we kind of think that Doctor Who must 906 00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:40.500 always have done catchphrases for the alien baddies so that we 907 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:43.800 could play it in the playground, but that's a very moffity thing 908 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:43.980 really. 909 00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:48.599 Although, where they don't exist, Doctor Who fans tend to make 910 00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:53.039 them up anyway, the quest is the quest, the great journey of life 911 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:57.300 you know, we pick phrases from the monsters and we use them. 912 00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:59.760 My entire body aches for it. 913 00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:02.639 All praise to the great one. 914 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:04.920 Sorry, I should... 915 00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:07.679 And so much time in the playground. 916 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:12.059 Oh, look, praise to the great one. 917 00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:23.760 I think what Stephen Moffat does is being a fan, as much as any of 918 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:29.099 us are, he decides, you're going to do this anyway, I'm going to 919 00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:29.820 give you something here. 920 00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:31.679 And that's the thing at home. 921 00:44:31.739 --> 00:44:34.559 If I want to talk about this story, I don't say the empty child 922 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.840 the doctor dances, because I've said that before to Rodney, he's 923 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:37.500 just sort of squinted at me. 924 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:38.400 I said, are you my mummy? 925 00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:39.480 He's like, oh, okay, right. 926 00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:40.139 Yeah, I like that. 927 00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:43.380 Well, I think the show itself will call back that catchphrase 928 00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:43.860 twice. 929 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.519 Yes. 930 00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:45.239 Yes, yes. 931 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:48.659 But the other thing I love about that cliffhanger, at least to me 932 00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:54.239 it seems there's a deliberate visual reference to the 1980s 933 00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:59.820 invasion of the body snatchers with Donald Sutherland because the 934 00:44:59.820 --> 00:45:04.739 pod people in there act in a very similar way, just when they're 935 00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:05.519 sort of milling around. 936 00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:08.400 And then they do the whole screech thing. 937 00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:12.480 And instead, the screech here is mummy, mummy, are you my mummy? 938 00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:13.139 are you my mummy? 939 00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:13.860 Are you my mummy? 940 00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:15.780 And they can say other things. 941 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.960 Like at the beginning of the story, Jamie says, balloon. you know 942 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:20.159 in a very childlike way. 943 00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:23.760 And next week he'll be much more articulate and perhaps even a 944 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:25.380 little scarier for that reason. 945 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.340 Yeah, yeah. 946 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.780 But the catchphrase continues over the credits just slightly. 947 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.260 I don't think that the sound ends when the sting comes in. 948 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:35.099 I think it's still going. 949 00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:04.559 Well, dear listener, it looks like we'll be stuck in this hospital 950 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.460 ward for the next week or so, so I'm off to find some bandages and 951 00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:09.360 rubbing alcohol. 952 00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:12.300 We'll see you next week for the second part of this story, the 953 00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:13.079 doctor dances. 954 00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:17.039 In the meantime, you can find us at Flight through Entirety.com 955 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:20.639 flight through Entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FT 956 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:21.719 podcast on Twitter. 957 00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:25.380 Over on Bondfinger, you can find any number of James Bond 958 00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:28.739 commentary podcasts covering every era of the film series and 959 00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:28.980 more. 960 00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.519 That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts 961 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:34.440 and at bondfingercast on Twitter. 962 00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:38.219 Until next time, may you meet a tall, dark and handsome stranger 963 00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:39.840 willing to give you some Spock. 964 00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:41.699 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 965 00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.539 Good night. 966 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:44.219 I'm just after a bed pan. 967 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:45.059 I'll see you then. 968 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:51.960 That was Flight for Entirety starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan 969 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.079 Jones, and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb 970 00:46:55.079 --> 00:46:56.820 Strings Performance by Jane Orberg. 971 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.119 This episode, Debbie Watling hanging from a crane, was recorded on 972 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:04.019 the 22nd of July 2018, and released on the 21st of October. 973 00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.900 If you're tired of our all considered takes on Doctor Who series 974 00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:13.800 one, why not listen to Jody Interterterra, which features our ill 975 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.300 considered takes on Doctor Who series 11. 976 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:19.980 That's Jodyintaterra.com and Jody Intaterra on Apple Podcasts. 977 00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.739 Just wait one sec. 978 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.400 It was Calvin bringing snacks. 979 00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:27.300 I got excited. 980 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:28.739 It's a sex pit. 981 00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:31.320 Bobby, outside mate. 982 00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:32.099 Come on. 983 00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:34.559 That's sex pics. 984 00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:37.019 Look at all that cake stuff over there. 985 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.039 It's an interesting house. 986 00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:40.019 I know you're listening to this, aren't you? 987 00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:45.300 I did look over there earlier and think, is that cake, but I think 988 00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:47.460 it's some kind of soap. same difference. 989 00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.539 What is in that box? 990 00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:50.219 Is that cake? 991 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.360 Is that soap? 992 00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:52.739 Hey, I was right. 993 00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:55.320 I did a soap thing. 994 00:47:55.380 --> 00:48:00.900 So, um, we have... 995 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.119 Well, you know, Brexit is coming. 996 00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:05.880 We'll be living on that. 997 00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:09.360 Speaking of which, there's going to, this is just going to be a 998 00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:10.800 little tintinabulation. 999 00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:12.179 This is a little fairy bell. 1000 00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:16.920 We're going to be seeing a lot more of these sorts of dramas come 1001 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:17.940 a year or 2 hands. 1002 00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:20.940 We were nostalgic for when we won. 1003 00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:23.159 For rationing. 1004 00:48:23.219 --> 00:48:24.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1005 00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:28.860 So we have an episode where the entire tag is just Alfie 1006 00:48:28.860 --> 00:48:30.000 interrupting Brendan. 1007 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:33.179 Is that it just then? 1008 00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:35.940 Yeah, so I just pull the toddler fence across. 1009 00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.219 He did start doing... 1010 00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:39.659 The topclophane defence. 1011 00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:40.079 Yes. 1012 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.039 So, so Captain Jack, yeah.