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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:09:08

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast where the world ends if we do dance.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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And I'm just back from up the butchers where he's really been extending the mints.

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Sausage casing.

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So we've spent a week trapped in a dingy hospital wards, surviving only on becks and back rubs, so it must be time.

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I miss Medicare.

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It must be time for us to finally get round to confronting this slowly advancing army of gas mask wearing zombies.

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Welcome at last.

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To Brexit. to the doctor dances.

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Did we get enough left wing jokes in there?

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I'm not sure.

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Not quite as much left-wing stuff as the actual story gets in because Tony Ben cited by don't forget the welfare stage.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So last week, and we didn't mention it, the doctor suggested that Nancy's little group of street urchins stealing food from the rich was kind of Marxism in action.

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And then this time we get, you know, the great post-war achievement of Britain, which was the welfare state, the fact that people in Britain had learned that they were kind of all on the same side, despite the massive sort of class divides, you know, that plague and continue to plague Britain.

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There was a kind of mentality of pulling together and a kind of understanding that misfortune is not something that happens to you because you're particularly feckless or wicked or lazy, but just that you're unlucky.

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And so the great post-war project of the welfare state, you get, uh, we've had a little bit of sort of left wingery sneaking its way into the season so far with this very working class doctor.

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But I think Moffat is the one who really kind of makes it explicit. this story.

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It's kind of, it's funny saying this, for the time it was written, it's only 13 years ago, but it's before even the UK had gay marriage.

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And it was just after the 1st attempt at it had been defeated here by both major parties.

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So let's not forget.

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And absolutely rammed through Parliament. in a very, very fast measure to put us in our place.

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Yeah, still better.

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But it takes one of the few straight members of the production team because, of course, the production team was headed up by 2 gay men and architectural women, you know.

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I say that, you know, Mal Young was an executive producer, but even Mal Young said, you know, my job was to sort of smooth relations between a BBC in-house production, which we hadn't really done in a long time and the BBC.

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He wasn't a creative force on the show.

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It was an administrative force.

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But, you know, Russell T. Davies said at the time, we've got me.

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We've got Mark Gatis.

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We've got Phil Collins, but it's Stephen Moffat who comes in and puts in all the gay characters.

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And I think it's very important that we have someone like Stephen Moffat, who, you know, he is kind of a definition of someone who has all the privilege in the world.

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You know, he is relatively well off in a country where he can be successful in a creative role, he is a heterosexual white man.

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And he chooses in his texts to put in strong female characters, strong queer characters.

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He writes a Scottish character.

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We Scottish characters.

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You know, he writes in people from societally disadvantaged backgrounds and gives them power and agency.

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I think what's interesting here is too, that none of the movies that we said that this was referencing would have been able to have been quite so explicit about the existence of gay people as this is.

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They didn't exist.

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Yeah, that's right. weren't there.

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And it's the same conversation that we end up having in thin ice with Bill, about non-white characters in the past.

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And it's great that Moffatt does this.

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And one of the things, like people, I think, correctly identify, sometimes that Moffatt's writing can be a bit problematic.

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But I have absolutely no doubt that his heart is in the right place.

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And you can see during the course of his tenure on Doctor Who, that he learns in his 1st season of Doctor Who, there aren't any gay characters.

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And then he goes, actually, that's a real oversight.

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And here he gets to do a good gay character or a couple of good gay characters in Algae and Jack, and then the evil Mr. Lloyd, who has been exchanging, you know, pork for pork.

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Or for crackling.

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If I may jump in there.

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I've had a bit of a journey with this story because when it was 1st on, it was my favourite of the entire season, and it is now my favourite of the entire season as well.

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But over the course of the last 13 years, I did actually go off it a bit and it was because of the character of Mr. Lloyd and because Nancy threatens to expose his queerness in order to get what she wants.

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And also that's played for comedy, which I objected to.

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But looking at it, it's like, well, no, this is accurate for the time.

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And here's a hypocrite.

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And he is a hypocrite. absolutely.

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And exceeding his bounds, he's taking more than his fair due.

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Yes, yes.

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I really think that's the impetus for it, not any form of...

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No, absolutely.

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And that's that's the conclusion I came to as well.

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It's like, well, hold on.

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This is both accurate to the time, but also no one threatens algae in that way.

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You know, so it's not, it's not a punishment of queer characters.

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It a punishment of an ignoble character.

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And also something I didn't pick up until I was watching this this week.

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When he's talking about I pay for the food on this table, the sweat on my brow, that is.

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That's the sweat on my brow.

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And I thought, yes, I'm sure it is, even if you're in the cool room, dear.

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Nancy gets a great callback to that because, of course, he's sweating at the threats and just as she leaves.

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She just says, there you go.

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There's the sweat on your brow.

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Yeah, yeah, beautiful.

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I think if we want representation, I think that we have to get to be villains.

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I think that we have to get to be ignoble and cowardly and selfish in if we're only that, then that's a problem.

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Absolutely.

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There's been a discussion recently in making video games because video games are starting to include more queer characters as well because video games as a storytelling narrative are often behind film, simply because the story usually takes a backseat too, say gameplay, you know, and how the game actually plays.

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But there's a very famous video game called The Last of Us, which is about 2 characters, a man and sort of an adopted surrogate daughter figure in the 1st game in the 2nd game.

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This character, Ellie, I believe she's called, is going to be a stronger lead character.

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And also they've introduced that she is a lesbian and she's having a relationship with another woman.

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And that prompted an author on Kataku, the website, to write an article entitled, Let queer characters and games be happy.

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And the author then cites all these examples of queer characters and games who come to a sticky end.

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It's kill your gaze.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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And the point she makes towards the end is, of course, queer characters can die as any character can die because if you have queer characters being immortal in games, there is no tension of whether they will survive.

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It would just be nice if some did.

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And I think that's a very important point.

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We need to be able to be villains.

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And to have bad things happen to our characters.

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So long as that's not the only thing, because when Stephen Moffatt does eventually introduce 2 gay characters, they're the fat, thin, gay atheists, why would we need names and one of them is killed and his partner never finds out?

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And it's just like, yeah, yeah.

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And then he does better later down the line.

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Culminating in Bill, obviously.

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Yeah, yeah, the last main character that Stephen Moffat introduces is a lesbian of colour.

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He comes full circle.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, that's kind of been my journey with this story of going, oh, actually, that's a bit horrible to, well, that means that this character of Mr. Lloyd.

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He's got what, 2 or 3 scenes, but we find out so much about him.

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Is he actually queer?

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Or is he just, you know, doing it for the pork, as it were?

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Yeah.

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Is this his wartime sacrifice?

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That defence always a little trickly a nebulous, really.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But, you know, it raises mystery about his character.

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Whereas we're told in no uncertain terms in the story that algae exclusively goes for men.

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Yeah, so there's that distract the guards moment.

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And, of course, Rose, who has watched plenty of genre TV knows that that's her job and she goes off the...

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And of course, Jack says, no, you're really not his type. is off to distract him.

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She has a real moment of this is just not clicking.

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The funny thing about Rose's reaction in that is it shows, and I think it's deliberate.

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It shows, despite her intelligence and her resourcefulness, Rose is quite a naive character.

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The idea of bisexuality, shocks and surprises her.

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She's quite young.

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But she's got this kind of look on her faces, but he was flirting with me.

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How can he now be flirting with her?

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And we'll also see next season.

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And even later on this season that she finds the idea of the doctor relating to anyone else, the way he relates to her, she finds that very confusing and hurtful. as you do when you're young.

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Absolutely.

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You know, this is my relationship.

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How can that relationship exist elsewhere?

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And it's very well played by Billy.

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Some people have quoted it as like a character oversight, but it's like, no, I think that is the character.

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This is her first true love.

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I think too, that there is a very definite attempt to, uh, like contrast the 3 time zones that our characters are from in so far as their kind of sexual mores are concerned.

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And it's a little bit like the unearthly child, not the empty child, an unearthly child, where you have very harsh criticism of Carol Anne.

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Well, she hasn't even had a sandwich.

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Take a drink.

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You know how you get the Doctor Who's from the far future.

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Barbara and Ian who are from the present and then the tribe of gum who are from, you know, 100,000 BC.

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Here you get the people from the 1940s with their sexual ethics.

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Then you get Billy, you get Rose, who's from 2005 with her sexual ethics, and then you get Jack from the 51st century, and it is a small...

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With his Magnus Greel ethics. where he just picks his bints out of a rotisserie, doesn't he?

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Oh my gosh.

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Like it turns out Todd was right all along.

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Why was Magnus Briel not picking up young men and putting them in the machine?

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He and Jack are from the same century and we've got a much more sort of enlightened and permissive attitude towards who we're prepared to dance with.

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Well, he was the butcher of Brisbane.

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Maybe he's a descendant of Lyle Shelton.

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Yeah.

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Ooh, Bangtish, which would involve anyone descending with Lyle Shelton. added great distance.

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Is this point where I can get all fanboyish and say, I don't understand how the sigma particle experiments, which wound up its own fundamental algae, possibly have anything to do with Jack.

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Why were they picking 51st centuries?

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Because we could just do another casual nod as longtime viewers?

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as in as in insane fanboys, i.e. yeah.

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Well, I think we've said before that Russell tries to get out of the way of Doctor Who continuity by setting everything in the sort of 2001st century or in the year 5000000000 or whatever, and they haven't wanted to go quite so far ahead.

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And Magnus Grill does talk about time agents.

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He does believe the doctor is a time agent.

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You're damn right.

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But so was was, I'm so sorry to do this to you.

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But I know you're itching as much as I am, and it's not just the dogs on the sofa, of whom we have 2 lovely ones here, and Nathan and Brendan.

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So there's Sigma experiments were going on parallel, but discreetly from the main, main time, and that maybe Greal was looking to be another Elon Musk, because that can only go well.

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I think that I think that he thought that it was rather day class A to travel through time with a watch and he wanted to find a way of travelling through time in our Chinese like a cabinet.

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And that took a lot more energy than the watchers did, you see?

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So I think it all fits in very nice. beautifully.

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Now you've explained it.

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I can say, I don't know how I could have been so foolish not to have seen it, yeah.

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I think also, Magnus Greel is based on Earth, whereas Jack implies several times he's been to other planets and other times.

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But in terms of the continuity, they had a very difficult job this year, in that they had to appease fans by stating, you know, this is the same series, it is a continuation.

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So if they're going to refer back to something, they need to make damn sure they've got it right.

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So if the script includes references to time agents, it doesn't surprise me at all that someone, whether it was Moffat or whether it was Russell would say, okay, in that case, then Jack is from the 51st century and that way we can tie it in.

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And it's the kind of continuity reference that we will get, but the audience won't feel the general audience won't feel that they've missed something.

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No, they won't notice that it's a preference.

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Yeah, any more than the sort of stuff about the eyesop galaxy or venom grubs.

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No, exactly.

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And yeah, I think it's the same reason that a few weeks ago, we had a 60s, 70s cyberhead in the museum because it's like, what kind of cyber stories got the largest amount of viewers.

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What do people remember?

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What do people remember?

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And so fans will go, oh, well, that's ahead from the invasion, whereas casual viewers would go, oh, I think I watched that with my dad.

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Yeah, I remember that one.

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Yeah.

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They had flares.

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Yeah, so I think this year they tread very deftly with continuity.

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And I remember being terribly excited when I could spot a reference, you know, and even all these 13 years later, I still only just catch the reference to the ISOP galaxy in the long game.

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Oh, yeah, there's one in Bad Wolf as well, but there's one in the long game on one of the news channels.

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Right, right.

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The face of Bo is referred to as being from the ISOP Galaxy.

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Beautiful.

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So, as always, I think we should get back to the topic of sex.

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So, the doctor dances, it's obviously an oblique way to talk about the doctor having sex.

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The world doesn't end if the doctor dances.

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And this season, we've talked about that show Bible before where Russell says that he doesn't want the doctor to be that new to public schoolboy.

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So the doctor very clearly, I think, this season sort of comes out as heterosexual in a more explicit way than he has before, and perhaps a less explicit way than he will next year, I think, with Billy.

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And we've always had Pat flirting with the female guest stars.

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Tom desperately trying to put his hands on Judith Paris. threw up a row of psychone fencing and it still didn't stop him.

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No.

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But here we have, you know, like this season we've had people ask about the, whether the Dr. and Rose have a sexual relationship.

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We have the doctor kind of going on a date with Jabe, and here we do get the question of whether the doctor has sex.

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And I think associated with that is. the 1st reference ever to the doctor shaving as well.

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Yes.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Although he had a shaving mirror, as we know.

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Yes, that's true.

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In the secondary console. which we used between season 10 and 11 when he asked Victoria to travel with him again in one of the decalogues, I believe it was.

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I'm a very passionate person.

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You have my entire attention.

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What I what I really love and adore about that scene where the Dr. and Rose are trapped in that cupboard waiting for Jack to rescue them is just the doctor's hurtness and defensiveness that Rose assumes that he doesn't have desires and passions and loves. know, he has referred to the fact that he's lost everyone.

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And so we get the implication here that he may have lost someone he loves.

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And Christopher Eccleston, of course, didn't do as many interviews as his successors would do about the role.

200
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But one thing he said about his interpretation of the character that is always stuck with me is he said, the doctor's at Time Lord and Time Lords have 2 hearts, which means they can both be broken.

201
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:14.099
It brings back that melancholy that Sylvester McCoy is so often brought into the character and, you know, the doctor seems quite hurt that Rose would just assume that he doesn't have this element to his life.

202
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.000
Yes.

203
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.500
And it's possible that the reason he presents himself that way.

204
00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:24.900
And I think the doctor's kind of thinking about that. hold on, is that what I've shown you that I can't love?

205
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:33.359
And yeah, well, it kind of is, because you've been pushing away love and affection, like when Jay reaches out to him, he doesn't say anything.

206
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:40.079
I think also it's about the doctor not being that sort of matinee idol hero that Jack is.

207
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:48.299
So Jack is very definitely presented to someone who dances, you know, and he is handsome.

208
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.039
He dances on the top of his sheep.

209
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:53.220
He gives champagne to Rose, you know, all of that.

210
00:19:53.279 --> 00:20:02.039
He's sort of sexy and she's been complaining that the doctor isn't a proper hero at the very opening of last week's episode.

211
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:12.240
She talks about how they never leave earth and they nip back for milk. and there's nothing sort of particularly glamorous or sexy or techie about the doctor.

212
00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:14.220
He's a little bit sort of ramshackle.

213
00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:21.180
And she says, you know, give me some spark, scan frailian tech, do something really cool and science fiction-y.

214
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:24.240
Then Jack comes along and Jack is beating the doctor.

215
00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:28.259
The doctor's kind of being cucked a bit by Jack at this point.

216
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:36.000
And Jack comes along and he's dashing and he's got a big gun and he makes fun of the doctor's tiny sonic screw.

217
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:42.779
And, you know, talks about how stupid it is and the doctor's visibly embarrassed about this screwdriver.

218
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.960
Yeah, and he struggles to sort of justify the screwdriver.

219
00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:49.079
He's like, haven't you ever been bored or had a lot of cabinets to put up?

220
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:54.059
I get the impression there that the doctor suddenly thinks, actually why do I have this?

221
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.579
Why did I choose a screwdriver?

222
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:02.039
Going all the way back to the very beginning last week when the doctor says it's like a mauve alert?

223
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:04.019
And even Rose was like, that's not proper.

224
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:04.980
It's red alert.

225
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.319
Doctor's like only by your standards, you know?

226
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:12.900
It's all about, as we've been talking about, it's the different Marais and customs.

227
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:19.500
And, you know, the doctor can kind of walk in and observe the customs of someone else, but he doesn't necessarily take them on board.

228
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:26.460
Whereas Jack does nothing to hide his 51st century sensibilities.

229
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:33.059
You know, when he flirts with algae, algae enjoys it, but he's, you know, he's very worried and concerned about being found out.

230
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:36.059
Yeah, he's a little shocked by Jack's full witness.

231
00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:46.619
There's this undercurrent with the sexuality in this story that it's kind of like, it's a period of war, they don't think they're going to get out of this.

232
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.740
You know, Nancy even says what future.

233
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.240
Hold on.

234
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:54.119
If you're a Londoner from the future, how come you sound English?

235
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:55.319
Why aren't you German?

236
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:57.359
They don't think that they're going to win this.

237
00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:59.759
So it's like, I've been kind of a good boy all my life.

238
00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:02.579
You can imagine algae thinking, I've been a good boy all my life and gone for the girls.

239
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.859
Well, I'm going to be dead next week.

240
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.240
So no, I like boys.

241
00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:07.920
I'm like now.

242
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:13.500
I'm not going to shout it from the rooftops because I feel like I can't, but I'm going to bloody indulge.

243
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:17.819
And, you know, Mr. Lloyd, if he is enjoying his trips to the butchers.

244
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.279
He's going, well, this is the time for it.

245
00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:30.119
Nancy, 5 years ago, as a teenager, has obviously fallen for someone who said he would be there in the original draft of the script.

246
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.160
Jamie's father was in the story.

247
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:33.000
Right.

248
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:39.420
And pretty much he was this mysterious figure who was helping Nancy from the periphery.

249
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.259
So, you know, he might scout out the building and call Nancy in.

250
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.240
And that was then streamlined for 2 reasons.

251
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:47.339
One, it's like, why do you need that character?

252
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.259
Nancy gets to be the one who goes in.

253
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:55.200
But two, it lends that degree of ambiguity of, okay, did he abandon Nancy, was he a soldier?

254
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:56.519
Did he have to go off and fight?

255
00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:58.319
Was he a much older man?

256
00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:59.819
Did he already have a family?

257
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:01.140
and was this going on?

258
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.420
We're not given any of that information.

259
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:07.380
I think it is eventually made clear that she was very young.

260
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:14.819
And like if he'd gone off and been killed, she wouldn't have had to say that Jamie was her brother.

261
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:25.859
And the thing that has got us into this mess that has got us into this whole gas mask zombie mess is the sexual ethics prevalent in the 1940s.

262
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:37.740
And if Jamie had known that Nancy was his mother, then the Chula ambulance thing wouldn't have made the mistakes that it did.

263
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:42.900
And it's only rectified where she's able to stand up and say, I am your mother.

264
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.019
This is a kid who has never known who his mother is.

265
00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:48.299
He doesn't know who his mother is.

266
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:59.339
He's got a big sister, but because it's outrageous and impossible for her to stand up and say, yes, I wasn't married, but this is my son.

267
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:04.920
Just as it would be impossible for Mr. Lloyd to stand up and say, that butch is hot.

268
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:09.720
I'm leaving Mrs. Lloyd for him or algae can't come out either.

269
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:16.380
All of this sort of oppressive mid-20th century sexual morality is the problem here.

270
00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:18.720
And the solution to it is...

271
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:19.859
It's not the bombs, do you?

272
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:26.460
The solution is the 51st sexual morality that Jack brings to the table or the couch or, yeah.

273
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:28.859
Pop dick.

274
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.720
So for extreme comfort.

275
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:38.339
Well, I mean, Moffat wrote, joking apart is like a really kind of slightly embarrassing sex comedy.

276
00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:43.619
It predates coupling, which is slightly less embarrassing sex comedy.

277
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.039
But, you know, Moffatt, that's where Moffatt made his name in TV.

278
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:56.039
And it's nice for the 1st time, I think, to have a Doctor Who story that comments on sexual ethics is a central part of it, sort of thematic architecture.

279
00:24:56.099 --> 00:25:00.000
Again, it links back to the Sylvester McCoy era.

280
00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:13.200
And the interesting thing was when the series was being publicised before it came back, Russell T. Davies had said in an interview when he was talking about the tone of the series, oh, you know, we're looking back to older eras of the show, like the Hinchcliffe era.

281
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.740
And some tabloids, and I believe I mentioned this back in Rose.

282
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:25.740
Some tabloids then picked that up as the series is going to carry on from season 14 and ignore everything that came afterwards, and it's a semi-reboot.

283
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:30.720
And Russell then had to come out and give an interview and say, no, no, no, I love all eras of Doctor Who.

284
00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:37.859
And he even cited, for instance, a lot of people think the last 3 years of Doctor Who were terrible was Sylvester McCoy.

285
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.440
But we are building on that a lot.

286
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:57.059
We have a character who's from London and we, and he even said, we probably wouldn't be able to do this without the groundwork that Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred had laid because I remember then Sophie Aldred said in an interview, they're talking about the stuff we did and saying it's an antecedent of what they're doing, which is amazing.

287
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:59.460
We didn't think anyone was watching. you know.

288
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.559
Back in the curse of Fenrick.

289
00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:03.779
It starts introducing Ace's sexuality.

290
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.420
You know, there'd been hints beforehand.

291
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.420
But again, that's the World War 2 setting.

292
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:17.759
And the whole reason that Ace is able to seduce that guard is because she acts in a way contrary to how a woman would act.

293
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:22.619
And of course, we have Kathleen being shocked at the idea that Audrey might be born out of wedlock.

294
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.539
Yeah, that's the same thing, isn't it?

295
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:31.980
Where Ace just casually assumes that Kathleen's not married because she's young and like none of Ace's friends are married, probably.

296
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.200
And then Kathleen's quite shocked by that.

297
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:35.640
Yeah, shocked and offended.

298
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:36.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

299
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:38.880
You know, I'm not I'm not that kind of girl.

300
00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:43.980
And, of course, we've got Mrs. Hardacre saying, you know, any expression of female sexuality is evil.

301
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:45.720
Because she was that kind of girl.

302
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:48.720
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah subtext there.

303
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:53.759
Whereas here, people are set free by acknowledging.

304
00:26:53.819 --> 00:26:54.960
Actually, this is a bit stupid.

305
00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:55.680
This is my son.

306
00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:56.759
Yeah.

307
00:26:56.819 --> 00:27:06.539
That scene is so powerfully played because the realisation leading up to the moment where the doctor figures it all out.

308
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.819
It's mostly played with looks.

309
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:13.079
The monsters are around saying, are you my mummy, are you my mummy?

310
00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:14.099
And Nancy says it's all my fault.

311
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:22.319
And the doctor says, how can it be your, and then it's just cutting between the zombies and the doctor and Nancy and just their looks to each other?

312
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.839
And then the doctor spells it all out.

313
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.119
And yeah, we praised her last week.

314
00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:30.000
But yeah, Florence Howath puts in a great job again here.

315
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:54.299
Now, I don't know exactly which scene it is, but there's one scene in this episode with Nancy, which was a Philocine, and for ages that I heard it was the scene with the typewriter, with one of the kids writing a letter to his dad, and then the child takes control of the typewriter, and I believe Stephen Moffatt said in interviews, yes, I had to write that scene quite late, and that's why it doesn't make much sense because the kid can control speakers.

316
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.799
Not any machine.

317
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:59.640
How can he suddenly control a typewriter, but, you know, we had 2 minutes to fill.

318
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:21.480
It's also the same beat that he does earlier in the episode as well, where, which I think is fabulous, where they're playing the recordings of Dr. Tate, talking to Jamie when he 1st arrived in the hospital. and you hear him speaking, but you can hear this crackling sound. and it's really well directed because if you're paying attention, you actually know what's going on.

319
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:38.279
The tape has reached its end and it's just making that sort of noise of a reel-to-reel tape going around and the sort of crinkly bit of tape, hitting it, but the voices are still going, and then we suddenly realise that in fact the tape has reached its end and it's actually Jamie approaching, controlling the speaker.

320
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:46.500
Now we have everyone's talking, the typewriter's still going, and then it turns out the kid's not typing any longer because it's Jamie approaching.

321
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.240
So it does dilute that a bit.

322
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:50.880
But the 1st version of it is so moffety.

323
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:53.039
So brilliantly moffity and so scary.

324
00:28:53.160 --> 00:29:07.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. especially Eccleston's reaction, because he plays it both as like utter fascination with what's happening, but slowly building terror, because he kind of goes, it's got the power of a God.

325
00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:08.880
I've sent it to its room.

326
00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:10.380
This is its room.

327
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:19.440
I think that he realises what's going on too, because Rose nags him a couple of times about what the sound is, what that crackling noise is, and he ignores her.

328
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:20.160
Yeah, yeah.

329
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.680
I think he knows that that's Jamie coming.

330
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:26.160
And you know, then we've get the whole thing with the banana.

331
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:32.039
See, I think that's where the doctor starts to win.

332
00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:44.519
I think that had this sort of phase where Jack is the better hero than the doctor because he's sort of sexier and more techie and has more Spock going and the doctor seems a little bit embarrassed.

333
00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:55.019
But then he's sort of surreptitiously stealing Jack's squareness gun and going back in time to destroy the place that comes from and replace it with a banana plantation.

334
00:29:55.079 --> 00:30:01.740
And like his sort of much sillier, much less violent approach to being a hero.

335
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:05.579
Yeah, he wins because he's not a yank and the British will always side with their own.

336
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:07.259
He's the George Formby in this comedy.

337
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:15.660
If Jack is whomever you want to Paul Hein Reid, whomever you want to cast, is the glamorous matinee idol.

338
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.519
And of course, the home counties always win.

339
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.359
But, well, that's, yes, we have no bananas.

340
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:23.640
It's actually referencing that's great.

341
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.019
Which was a wartime here.

342
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:26.160
Yes, yes.

343
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:26.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

344
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.519
It can't have been easy to get bananas in London actually.

345
00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:30.299
They weren't around.

346
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:31.859
They were doing U SATs bananas.

347
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.960
Made out of jackfruit and jack boots.

348
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:34.740
Donuts.

349
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.099
And all the other bits of jack that weren't necessary.

350
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.460
This precise moment for any other deeds, yes.

351
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:53.099
Every generation. loves and seems to reboot when they come of age, the period just when they were born.

352
00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:04.740
You know, which is why you tend to get fashion and theatre tropes, and indeed, aesthetics on a wider socialist level. sort of kind of spinning every 20 years.

353
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:10.619
The 70s were very 1930s, 40s in, in film references and in clothes. of course, of that generation.

354
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.160
We're seeing a bit of 80s, 90s, redundancy now.

355
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.079
Those kids, as poor children.

356
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:17.099
That's all they had.

357
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.259
That's all we left to revive.

358
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.079
And we were interested in the mod aspects and well, Doctor Who.

359
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:28.740
But this now, we also have that other point where that generation was starting to properly leave us the very last of them.

360
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:38.160
And there's a real heartburning of the great loss and that have been in British films a long time, but it was really starting to come up.

361
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.140
And it's interesting seeing it now.

362
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.140
It's something of our Anzac, our own in Australia.

363
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:59.759
We have the Anzac memory or the Anzac Memorial, which has become in both in its physical presence and in its march each year, which has become something really quite extreme and not at all what it was when those diggers were still alive, which was, oh, yes, we honour them, but we don't make a fuss about it.

364
00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:01.440
It's no big thing.

365
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:05.759
It's actually something, you know, there's a lot of shame in this on every level.

366
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:08.220
We'll just acknowledge quietly.

367
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:13.559
And this was kind of the last beat of that before, I think you'll start to see.

368
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:25.980
We mentioned it last week, but you'll start to see with Brexit coming that you'll be getting, I think, something a little bit boulderized and perhaps overweening in the 40s nostalgia that's about to come up.

369
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:33.240
But this is a lovely point in between the 2 and the films that we were just talking about and my pick of the week later on.

370
00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:38.460
So, again, there's a lot to be thankful to Moffatt for, to Mr. Stephen Moffatt.

371
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.140
He doesn't like being called Moffat.

372
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.579
Apparently, he's not a brand.

373
00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:47.099
Or, you know, or brute 33, whatever it is.

374
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.519
But he it's a beautiful balancing act.

375
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:58.619
This 2 powder, and I was terribly excited at the time because I thought, oh, goody, we're getting back to 4 parties, again, being a loyal big finish.

376
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.920
I can split this up and pretend it's 4 episodes.

377
00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:06.720
It is 4 episodes only without quite so much standing around cheaply in corridors.

378
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:07.859
How true, isn't it?

379
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:12.660
The thing is, there is still a bit of urgent standing in corridors and hospital wards.

380
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:17.160
You know, which, yeah, Stephen Moffatt says Doctor Who is about urgent standing at corridors.

381
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:21.119
Actors speaking to each other and reading its theatre.

382
00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:22.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

383
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:28.619
I have to say one of one of the sort of most heartrending moments in this for me.

384
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:36.660
It's the beginning of the redemption of Jack, because the whole thing is, yeah, okay, Jack is your matinee idol.

385
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:37.859
He's the hero with the gun.

386
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:38.880
He's the sexy one.

387
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:43.619
He's he's Captain Kirk, but the situation starts to get out of control.

388
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.960
And the situation for Jack gets out of control.

389
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:47.940
And John Barriman plays it really well.

390
00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:53.640
Again, it's all about looks, is when he approaches Algae and Algae turns around and says, are you my mummy?

391
00:33:53.700 --> 00:34:04.799
And the look on Jack's face is heartbreaking, because until this point, you're kind of led to believe that as flirty as Jack is, he doesn't actually care about anyone, you know, it's all just a con.

392
00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:16.619
It's, you know, yeah, I go to Pompeii, but I get out before volcano day, you know, he doesn't care that all those people have died, but he likes algae and when he sees that happen to algae and begins to realise that this is his fault.

393
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:28.440
It's actually a really bittersweet moment, and I think it's the 1st time we see him show kind of genuine emotion that's not just about the con, and that's where his redemption begins.

394
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:31.860
And he becomes so desperate to say, this isn't my fault.

395
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:33.119
This isn't my fault. isn't my fault.

396
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:36.420
And when the doctor points out, well, actually, it's this.

397
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.900
Again, he's horrified and his only defence is I didn't know.

398
00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:42.480
Didn't stand up in the Hague.

399
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:47.039
No, but I mean, but that is what prompts his actual redemption.

400
00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:54.780
So he gets kind of the doctor's winning at this point because he cares more and because he's more fun and more silly than Jack.

401
00:34:54.780 --> 00:35:00.900
And Jack realises that he has to make it rise in order to save everyone.

402
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:07.260
So he gets to die heroically, like a sort of proper hero in a way that sort of immediately subverted.

403
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:11.159
We get that wonderful Doctor Strange love.

404
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.199
God, yes.

405
00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:15.000
That was another filming reference.

406
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:25.139
I have heard somewhere that the script reads Jack is sitting on the bomb and they viewed it, I believe, in the original script.

407
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.619
Russell T Davies sort of saw him as, you know, he's sitting on it like a park bench.

408
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.920
You know, he's sitting, he's sitting side saddle, as it were.

409
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:33.300
Well, it is Jack.

410
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:40.920
But apparently it was John Barriman when he got into the studio, he just got astride it and they went, actually, there you go.

411
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:50.460
That also gives us our bad wolf reference for this episode because the bomb has on the side of it written Schleichter Wolf.

412
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:56.639
But the problem is the translation's really dodgy and it actually translates to naughty wolf rather than bad.

413
00:35:56.699 --> 00:35:58.500
It's like rummy wolf.

414
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.139
You chose the wrong German word.

415
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:05.460
It's like we have a very precise language, you know, it's this or this.

416
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:15.119
Also, in that moment, and this is something that James has pointed out to me in the past, we start getting the strings from the Doctor Who theme in the incidental music.

417
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:24.360
And at the time this episode went out, James's partner was a musician and DJ and wasn't big into Doctor Who, but loved the music of Doctor Who.

418
00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:27.239
And so James learned a lot about music as well.

419
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:34.139
And because the Doctor Who theme is not owned by the BBC, it is licensed from, I believe, Warner Music owned the copyright.

420
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:40.739
And that's why when this was coming on and also with the telemovie, there was doubt as to whether they would be able to retain the theme.

421
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:49.320
So in Murray Gold's theme arrangement, he introduces the strings as a counter melody, so he can use those in the incidental music.

422
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:58.079
Whereas using the actual sort of melody of the Doctor Who theme could incur, you know, an extra usage fee.

423
00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:07.500
He can use the bits he's introduced to the theme to link the incidental music to the theme and sort of make that, you know, this is the theme of when the doctor starts to win.

424
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:17.280
But that's also part of the reason that he will go on to develop themes for each doctor and each character, because, you know, we know that that's I am the doctor.

425
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:20.880
We know that that's am I a good man and that is the music for this character.

426
00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:30.300
But yeah, it's when Jack is sitting on the bomb and we're getting the strings that are just lifted from the theme, but it's really effective because it ties that in.

427
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:40.320
From another production standpoint, before we get to the ending, I love the cinematography and the light and the colouring in this story.

428
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:42.179
It is so cold.

429
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:43.260
It feels so cold.

430
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:48.480
And the whole thing happens at night, you know, which is so rare.

431
00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:53.880
I don't think we've ever had a Doctor Who story with external filming that's been entirely at night.

432
00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:02.579
I think the closest and it's not external, but things like the horror, Wing Chiang, horror fang rock happens in one night kind of thing.

433
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:05.880
But yeah, there's so much external stuff happening here.

434
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.940
And... happiness patrol.

435
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:13.619
Something else I picked up on with the cinematography. was last week.

436
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:20.400
The 2 phone calls the doctor gets when the phone rings, the shots are framed in a similar way.

437
00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:22.500
So you've got the phone on one side of the screen.

438
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:23.760
You've got the doctor on the other side of the screen.

439
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:26.099
You've got Nancy standing behind in the distance.

440
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:33.420
And then, so the 1st one, the TARDIS phone is on the right, doctor's on the left. 2nd one, phone is on the left, doctor's on the right.

441
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:39.599
And also there's a there's a Batman angle just to make you feel uneasy and make you feel strange.

442
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:42.960
And speaking of that whole four-parter thing.

443
00:38:43.019 --> 00:38:48.719
The great thing is, if you were to divide last week's episode into 2 parts.

444
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:52.139
The cliffhanger is when the doctor opens the door for the child.

445
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.260
And just imagine that as a cliffhanger.

446
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:55.980
Doctor opens the door.

447
00:38:56.039 --> 00:39:02.039
You don't see what's on the other side of the door, credits, and then the reprise, and then the solution is, the kid's gone.

448
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:04.619
It's a great falling action there.

449
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:06.900
And that's another great moment for Eccleston.

450
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:11.519
You know, he's he's been the child left out in the cold, which is a theme Stephen Moffatt will run with.

451
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:13.980
The more he writes for the character.

452
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.380
So he feels sympathy for this child.

453
00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:21.659
And yeah, it's it's the doctor's sort of detached curiosity that he always has.

454
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:25.500
But at the same time, you know, he has to know and he has to save this child.

455
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.599
And with the ending as we get to it, We've had so much death this season.

456
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:37.019
And so much of other characters solving the problem.

457
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:53.460
Like, um, I remember one story that came in for a lot of criticism at the time was the long game because basically the doctor is restrained during the whole denouement and it's, it's all down to him having inspired someone half an hour ago who then, who then comes up and solves the problem.

458
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.960
But here, yeah, the doctor gets to do it instead.

459
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.300
I think he inspires 2 people.

460
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:03.900
He inspires Jack to go back and kind of fix the problem.

461
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:09.599
And then he inspires Nancy to make her admission and he's right there doing it.

462
00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:11.519
And he also gets to do some magic.

463
00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:14.039
You know, like he gets to do some...

464
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:15.300
Well, some very Harry Potter effects.

465
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.260
Yeah, yeah.

466
00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:18.059
And I think that that's very deliberate as well.

467
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:20.280
You know, the doctor doesn't solve things with guns.

468
00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:21.659
He solves things with magic.

469
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.519
He's the doctor.

470
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.159
It's the Maggie Smith of the production all along.

471
00:40:26.219 --> 00:40:26.639
Yeah.

472
00:40:26.699 --> 00:40:28.500
It's doing the accent.

473
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:35.579
Like the nano genes are established very clearly and mentioned a bunch of times in the 1st episode.

474
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:39.900
Jack has the ability to take control of speakers.

475
00:40:40.079 --> 00:41:00.780
So all of this sort of stuff, because Moffat will create monsters that are whatever shape is needed for the plot, and people talk about blink being sort of great, but blink cheat horrifically by making the monsters be and do whatever. he thinks will look cool and will serve the plot.

476
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:05.760
And he brilliantly takes them out of context the following year and actually uses them for something else.

477
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:18.420
But you couldn't take the Chula Warship ambulance things out of context because they're completely dependent on whatever it is that the plot needs to happen or whatever visual set pieces we need. you know.

478
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:19.980
Yeah, hexacromite gas.

479
00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:23.219
Lethal to reptile and marine life.

480
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:24.900
Yeah, we just have it hanging around.

481
00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:37.920
But it does give us that fantastic moment and it's maybe one of Eggleston's best moments in the series where, just of excitement, just give me this one, just this once.

482
00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:42.960
Everybody lives. that so many times in the past, haven't we, Mr. Seward?

483
00:41:43.019 --> 00:41:43.739
We have.

484
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.579
And that's actually a whole go-at say, wasn't it?

485
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:49.619
It's the opposite of resurrection of the time.

486
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:55.739
You can see Janet Fielding sitting at home saying, I would have bloody stayed at that time.

487
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:58.739
Even that woman's leg.

488
00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:02.820
My leg's grown back.

489
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:04.440
And it wants to go to E's room.

490
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.880
It's saying I've got a really horrible dress.

491
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:14.039
And this is the greatest comedic throwaway line, which is so British comedy.

492
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:15.300
Well, there is a war on.

493
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:24.719
That scene just made me so, so sad that Eccleston was going.

494
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:36.000
Because you can see what Russell T. Davies was doing is he's like, we're going to do the Colin Baker thing. going to have a very long arc to get to know this character, and for God's sake, never say that.

495
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:39.059
Never ends well.

496
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:40.920
It's so true, isn't it?

497
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:57.900
So, you know, this is obviously we're going to have sort of a year and towards the end of that year is when he gets better and he starts being the doctor and being, you know, the sort of happy figure the doctor should be and we're going to build up to that.

498
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.179
And then, you know, in a few weeks just to finish off.

499
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.519
He is going to wipe out the Daleks once and for all.

500
00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:09.780
He's going to end the time war and, you know, then we'll go on to him, you know, being all chummy with Queen Victoria and, oh God, now we've lost our lead actor.

501
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:14.159
And dare I say it, and I may say this in future appearances.

502
00:43:14.219 --> 00:43:17.159
I think that's why losing Eccleston.

503
00:43:17.219 --> 00:43:26.699
It sets the series back because we're not able to finish that idea of him healing.

504
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:34.679
And so when he regenerates, David Tennant's doctor has to carry that and really he has to carry it all through his tenure.

505
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:40.559
And it's not even until Matt Smith that we're able to start to get over that guilt.

506
00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:43.619
I mean, it's explicitly got over in day of the doctor.

507
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:44.760
Exactly.

508
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:45.480
It takes all that time.

509
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:47.820
Maybe it was supposed to, but I certainly agree with you.

510
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:54.480
I'm really pacing myself for season 2 and now we'll be watching it, imagining what would Eccleston have done?

511
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:59.219
I also think losing Billy at the end of season 2 has a big effect on what he planned to do as well.

512
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.559
Was she going to stay?

513
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:02.699
Was that the plan to stay longer?

514
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:04.199
I thought 2 years was good.

515
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.840
I don't think that his original intention was to change cast every year, which is what he ends up doing.

516
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:15.360
And that series Bible says we're not even going to mention regeneration because it just might not come to that.

517
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:25.079
And then he discovers that he's going to be doing, you know, what happened during the Heartnal era where or the Trout era where you have a change of cast every year.

518
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:29.280
And I think that the thing that he intended to set up doesn't come off.

519
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:31.260
We'll get more of that when we talk about season two.

520
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:35.820
But yeah, I mean, this is the story that made me miss Eccleston in advance.

521
00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:39.900
It's like, 0 God, the end is coming and I'm really not ready for it.

522
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:41.699
I feel like I've just met you kind of thing.

523
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:43.019
I'm just getting to know you.

524
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:47.820
And suddenly the party's over and you're getting on a plane tomorrow, you know, is how it feels.

525
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:49.739
And it's like, you know, what might have been?

526
00:44:49.800 --> 00:45:02.760
And what might have been is Eccleston, who feels like he doesn't get happiness and doesn't get comedy right, is that appropriately enough for an episode entitled The Doctor Dances, he doesn't set a foot wrong in this story.

527
00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:09.119
You know, he pictures everything perfectly from the vulnerability of kind of saying to Rose.

528
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:10.619
Look, I am capable of that.

529
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:12.659
I am capable of romance.

530
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:13.679
I am capable of caring.

531
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.579
Right through to his utter triumph at the end.

532
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:23.760
And, you know, Rose even comments, look at you beaming away like your father Christmas, you know, Rose comments, basically.

533
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:25.139
I've never seen you this happy.

534
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:38.940
Yeah, it's it's powerful and if we hadn't known that he was going, thank you, BBC publicity department for totally cocking that up, if we hadn't known that he was going, how happy would we have been?

535
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:47.579
Because that's the thing, this whole season has that undercurrent of knowing that he's a Mayfly. going to be gone soon.

536
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.239
How did he get on with James Hawes?

537
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.559
How was all of that working up?

538
00:45:52.619 --> 00:46:09.119
Uh, we don't know, but eventually, I think the plan had been originally for Graham Harper to do the final recording block, uh, and he said that he wanted Joe Hearn, and he was pretty insistent that Joe Hearn should do it instead.

539
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:13.739
I think James Horse does a good job of this. backed for the Christmas invasion.

540
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:15.000
He's good, I think.

541
00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:15.719
Yeah.

542
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:20.820
I think the only director, actually, 2 directors that Eccleston apparently didn't get on.

543
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.380
Well, we know he didn't get on with Keith Boke.

544
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:28.800
And I have heard that he also didn't gel well with thumb Brian Gant, who directed The Long Game.

545
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:39.420
I haven't heard anything particularly about him and James Hawes, but yeah, there is that whole thing of he pretty much he wanted Joe Hearn to direct everything.

546
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.159
He got on really well with Joe O Hearn.

547
00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:44.820
And even 5 years ago when he was talking about not doing the anniversary special.

548
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.699
He said, I might come back if Joe Aherne directs.

549
00:46:47.820 --> 00:47:04.619
And of course, we've heard from other sources that Joe Hearn will never direct again for Doctor Who because basically his partner said, it's me or Doctor Who, because just because Eccleston demanded him back on the show, he was incredibly overworked and incredibly overstretched.

550
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:10.440
And, you know, it's a bit like there are certain media companies that Rod said to me, you're not allowed to work for them again.

551
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:12.719
You're absolute hell when you're working for them.

552
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:17.460
It's a matter of if I had to take a job with him, he would disapprove.

553
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.440
He wouldn't actually react all that badly.

554
00:47:19.500 --> 00:47:23.400
But it is that kind of thing of, you know, jobs can affect you in that way.

555
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:28.199
Because you're off in Cardiff doing it as well. presumably away from home.

556
00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:31.139
That's a long way from Newtown for Brendan.

557
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:44.760
And especially with the finale being apparently such a tense environment to nobody really talking to anyone and having to have your 3 leads shot entirely separately.

558
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:46.559
Yeah.

559
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:56.940
I believe it was this episode that was shot at the same time as the long game, and also, if you look at the long game, entirely studio bound.

560
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.800
If you look at this, lots of location work.

561
00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:07.980
If you look at the long game, there's lots of scenes without Chris and Billy, if you look at this in the 1st episode, Chris and Billy are separated for ages.

562
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:17.519
So it wasn't as the Dr. Light episodes would be, you know, shot entirely at the same time, but there was a lot of overlap to allow for that kind of scheduling.

563
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:21.659
Boomtown next week will essentially be the Doctor Light episode.

564
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:23.639
And again, they split everyone into three.

565
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:29.280
So you can have essentially 13rd of the usual workload for each of the leads.

566
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:40.019
And yeah, here, of course, I think it's more, the traditional Doctor Who structure of doctor and companion get separated, doctor and companion come back together later in the story and compare notes.

567
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:41.159
Yeah.

568
00:48:50.219 --> 00:48:55.500
I think at the time, I knew that Jack was going to become a regular.

569
00:48:55.559 --> 00:49:04.559
I don't think they were shy about that because the casting of Barrowman was very heavily announced because, of course, he was such a name and remained such a name, you know.

570
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:11.400
And of course, from our perspective, we heard, oh, my God, you know, we've got an openly gay man playing regular on the poop.

571
00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:18.300
That being said, that final seed is very much shot like, you know, this character is going to make a sacrifice.

572
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:33.900
And because we've had several sacrificial characters over the course of this year, you know, we have Pete, we had um, Clive, we had Harriet Jones, who was willing to sacrifice herself, but she's fine.

573
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:36.059
You know, we have Suki.

574
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.880
It's played like, yeah, this is this week's sacrifice.

575
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.480
But the thing is, the doctors already said, no, everyone lives this time.

576
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:44.039
So he has to come in.

577
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:47.099
And that wonderful pullback shot.

578
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:51.059
I remember watching that thinking and we're just going to see it explode now and oh, that's so sad.

579
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:54.420
Then we pull back through the doors and Glenn Miller's playing again.

580
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:56.280
And we're in the tart.

581
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:57.179
We're in the tartars.

582
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.699
And because the doctor's not even hanging out saying, go away, go away.

583
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.139
No, he's like, no, I'm dancing with Rose.

584
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:02.460
You can come in if you like, you know.

585
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:04.559
Do you think, is that mattered?

586
00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:08.579
I think it looks so good that I just want to, in my head, cannon.

587
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:13.320
They just built the 2 sets next to one another and he just sort of walks through from one end to the other.

588
00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:14.639
I think it's so great.

589
00:50:14.699 --> 00:50:15.539
It's so well done.

590
00:50:15.659 --> 00:50:16.500
Yeah, yeah.

591
00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:18.719
And again, sort of just moffity and clever.

592
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.460
No, I'm pretty sure they did do that.

593
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:28.440
They did attach that set to the Tartis Outer Dorks because that whole Tartis console room was a standing set with the exterior doors outside.

594
00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:32.579
It's basically the toy that they later released and is out again, Richard.

595
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:34.440
So if you missed out on getting it last time.

596
00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:39.239
I mean, I like to make my own, but this one is quite fiddly, all those curves.

597
00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:46.199
Like literally the only reason I haven't bought it is I have the Matt Smith one and it's been sitting in the garage for 6 years because I don't have any room for it.

598
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:47.099
Yes, we don't.

599
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:47.760
We don't.

600
00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:50.880
Yeah, it's a beautiful shot and a beautiful moment.

601
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:57.300
But also it sums up the relationship between the 3 characters as it's developing.

602
00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:06.179
Because, you know, when he steps aboard the Tartars, Rose immediately wants to dance with him, but with this threat, the doctor needs to assert himself.

603
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:12.420
And, you know, he needs to assert himself as I'm the manager, but he does it by swing dancing around the console room.

604
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.760
You know, he doesn't go, I've got a bigger gun.

605
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:18.659
He goes, look, yeah, yeah, you can do all that.

606
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:20.340
Well, I can do what you do too, mate.

607
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:34.860
And I feel a bit uncomfortable with that, but I think I'm meant to because the last shot after the doctor takes a rose for a dip is he looks over at Jack and we end on the doctor looking at Jack and sort of challenging him.

608
00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:39.840
And again, it's this promise of what could have been if Christopher Eccleston had stuck around longer.

609
00:51:39.900 --> 00:51:47.219
It's deliberately setting up that there might be a bit of tension between these two, 4 roses affections and 4 leadership.

610
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.139
You know where that was also going to go.

611
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:51.119
The red bicycle.

612
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.579
Red bicycle when you were 12.

613
00:51:53.820 --> 00:52:01.139
The next story was going to look at how the doctor had been manipulating Rose's timeline to make the perfect companion.

614
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.480
This was Paul Abbott's rejected script.

615
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:17.039
So Paul Abbott, who created Shameless, who was a TV writer in the UK, sort of comparable to RTD, his sort of influence and stuff, and they tried to get Paul Abbott to write for the show, but it didn't pan out.

616
00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:19.619
But he was such a fan of cartmole.

617
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:20.639
Yes.

618
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:22.860
I'm glad they didn't.

619
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:24.300
It was just a bit too silver.

620
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:25.440
Yes, really.

621
00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:25.920
Yeah.

622
00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:35.039
Or what ends up happening with the Moffatt characters who, you know, they're all women that the doctor has met when they were small children. somewhat creepy way.

623
00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:39.000
In a Elon Muskie sort of way.

624
00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:40.199
Yeah, yeah.

625
00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:43.019
And the dilemma of that story was going to be, does Jack tell Rose?

626
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:57.599
And I'm really glad they didn't do that as well because it just feels wrong for the Eccleston Dr. and Rose relationship in that Eccleston is a Doctor Who's learning to be with other people again.

627
00:52:57.659 --> 00:53:06.119
And I think that if they had introduced a storyline where he's manipulating his best friend into what he wants, that is an evil action.

628
00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:11.219
Well, it's that's a more sort of Moffat thing in RTD's world.

629
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:19.139
The companions are people that we like and identify with people who we hope, you know, leave the doctor better.

630
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:21.599
The trust in happenstance and coincidence.

631
00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:24.119
Actually, RTD has faith in the human condition.

632
00:53:24.179 --> 00:53:25.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

633
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:32.099
Whereas the Moffatt characters tend to be much more science fiction-y and much more high concept, much more duty comicky.

634
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:34.199
Well, a little alienating, I think, for that reason.

635
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:39.840
They're like kind of the DC universe where everyone's a bit flat and gray and with lots of dark shadows.

636
00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:42.059
Yeah, it's not really where I want to be going.

637
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:43.320
But luckily, that hasn't happened.

638
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:55.860
All right, so it's part two, which means that it's time for picks of the week.

639
00:53:55.980 --> 00:53:56.699
Hurra.

640
00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:59.280
So my pick of the week.

641
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:02.820
It is on YouTube, but it's an audio adventure.

642
00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:07.800
It's called Doctor Who, the Ninth Doctor Adventures Cold Open.

643
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:13.800
And it's a fan-made production with a very, very good Christopher Eccleston impersonator.

644
00:54:13.860 --> 00:54:15.179
That's Jodie Whitaker.

645
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:15.780
Yes.

646
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:20.219
And the idea is it happens just before the 1st series.

647
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:24.780
They've only released one episode so far called Cold Open, as I say.

648
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:26.219
It's 33 minutes long.

649
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:36.059
And for me, it kind of feels like the audio visuals plays, which I know I've mentioned before, which were the forerunner to the big finish plays.

650
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:37.679
It's very professionally done.

651
00:54:37.739 --> 00:54:40.800
It's quite a simple story.

652
00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:42.719
It's only got a few characters.

653
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:47.159
But as I say, the Eccleston is very good and I highly recommend it.

654
00:54:47.219 --> 00:54:48.539
So we'll include a link for that on the website.

655
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:52.440
Always assuming BBC Enterprises hasn't made them take it down.

656
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:54.000
Oh, it's been up for 4 months.

657
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:54.780
It's still there.

658
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:55.920
I can see it here on my screen.

659
00:54:55.980 --> 00:54:58.920
So we're okay for now. listen to that right now.

660
00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:01.739
Well, my thing's always antecedents.

661
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:03.480
So I just throw a few at us.

662
00:55:03.539 --> 00:55:16.860
I didn't mention Gri Garson last week in Mrs. Miniver, which is William Wyler's lovely 1942 piece on how the Brits were coping with the Blitzes, but it's set in Cornwall in Judy Cornwall.

663
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:26.219
And it's the film about which Churchill said that was worth more to us than 100 warships.

664
00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:32.519
He cites this film as the one that brought the Yanks into the war as much as anything else.

665
00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:33.719
Really, isn't that good?

666
00:55:33.780 --> 00:55:34.619
Well it's Greek arson.

667
00:55:34.679 --> 00:55:35.880
And it's Morgan Milo.

668
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.019
Well, there's some other ones.

669
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:37.739
There are better films.

670
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.519
There's, um, fires were started, put that light out.

671
00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:43.559
Yes, it's about the AFS.

672
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:50.159
Oh, the Amateur Boys, but he uses the real boys, and there's some moments in this at the bomb site that really reminded me of that film.

673
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:52.860
So that's Humphrey Jennings from 1943.

674
00:55:53.099 --> 00:56:00.960
Um, There's Next of King, Thorold Dickinson, didn't they have lovely names, just then, which was all about Kayla's talk costing lives.

675
00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:01.920
But my favourite.

676
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:12.960
It's called Their Finest, and it came out only 2 years ago, 2016, and the director was Lonnie Scherfig, and it stars the podcast's own Gemma Atherton.

677
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:13.860
Did you see it?

678
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:26.280
It's about a girl during the war who is sort of on her own and we don't know exactly why she's on her own or how she's got to be where she is, but she's terribly clever and competent and she ends up writing.

679
00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:32.760
Propaganda or writing the scripts, but she also ends up working within, anyway, I won't spoil it for you.

680
00:56:32.820 --> 00:56:37.019
It's a really lovely piece and even though it comes after this.

681
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:39.480
I'm thinking, oh, come on, you.

682
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:43.019
I mean, we can't just cite this show as being an influence on later films.

683
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:45.420
However, there's some lovely little tonal moments.

684
00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:46.260
It did really well.

685
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:47.219
I think I got a BAFTA.

686
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.760
So yes, fresh from her bond fingering podcast.

687
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:56.880
I just remembered there's something else I wanted to pick of the week for this story and that is Atta girl.

688
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:58.199
Oh yes.

689
00:56:58.260 --> 00:56:58.800
Yes.

690
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.059
Yeah, I know.

691
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:01.320
How could we not?

692
00:57:01.380 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah.

693
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:02.880
What were we thinking?

694
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:05.400
So it's one of the big finish originals.

695
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:11.519
They come up with 7 original ideas, like not based on any other TV show or what have you?

696
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:18.059
So the original concept comes from Louise Jameson, and it's based on the woman's air transport auxiliary.

697
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:23.820
So it was the women who were moving planes where they needed to be in the war, flying without radios.

698
00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:27.599
So they would be shot at by their own people.

699
00:57:27.659 --> 00:57:29.820
So they had to fly under a certain altitude.

700
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:33.780
So the British army would know, oh, that's probably an ATA girl.

701
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:43.980
I think it's something like something between one or 3 and 10 of them died while flying, crashes got shot down, et cetera, et cetera.

702
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:59.340
It's for one hour plays, absolutely beautiful and allergic and heartbreaking, all directed by Louise Jameson, all written by women such as Helen Goldwin and Jane Slaven, who have done big finish for years.

703
00:57:59.579 --> 00:58:05.519
Yes, and I think currently available for $25 or $30 on download.

704
00:58:05.579 --> 00:58:06.780
They may do more.

705
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:07.920
It is labelled as series one.

706
00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:09.780
So there may be more tales.

707
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:11.280
It's a really cracking.

708
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:12.360
Yeah, yeah.

709
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:20.460
What is so amazing about it is they keep the sound design and music to such a minimum to try and emulate the style of an old war movie.

710
00:58:20.460 --> 00:58:26.699
And there are men in the plays, but it's mostly the stories of these women.

711
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:30.900
Not exactly based on true stories, but based on things that happened.

712
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:36.960
And I think Louise actually said there are 2 characters in it who really existed.

713
00:58:37.019 --> 00:58:41.820
And, you know, we've tried to be as loyal to them, but most of them, we've we've made up.

714
00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:47.159
We've put together real people, but it's kind of like the things we're talking about.

715
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:49.199
All of these things happen to someone.

716
00:58:49.260 --> 00:58:53.579
Yeah, continuing the sort of very the very strong Nancy in this story.

717
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.260
Go listen to Atagirl.

718
00:58:55.619 --> 00:59:00.059
Oh, well, I feel like mine's going to be a little bit of a letdown.

719
00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:04.199
Last time we had pics of the week, my peak of the week was television because...

720
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:05.699
Give it a try.

721
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.400
It's really good. recommend it.

722
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:14.519
We've spent a lot of time covering the wilderness years by not putting out an episode of the podcast for several months.

723
00:59:15.059 --> 00:59:22.679
And while that happened, of course, for new Target books came out, all of which you've probably read by now.

724
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:36.480
But given that we spent a lot of time expressing what we're probably fairly minor criticisms of Stephen Moffatt, his novelisation of the day of the doctor is everything that you would expect it to be.

725
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:48.659
It's smug and it's sort of complicated, but it is so wonderfully funny and so terrifically humane and so tremendously well done that it's definitely worth a read.

726
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:51.179
So I think all 4 of them are great.

727
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:59.159
The 2 of them that are set in series one and 2 are also available as audiobooks read by Camil Kaduri.

728
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:12.480
And, you know, definitely worth a listen, but I would really strongly recommend the day of the doctor. which is probably the sort of the last Doctor Whoey thing that we'll get from Offett for a while.

729
01:00:36.539 --> 01:00:41.699
Well, dear, sir, we've saved 1940s London, so we'll be off to threatened Carterville, 2006.

730
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:43.440
Like it hasn't got it coming.

731
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:47.219
And we'll be catching up with some old friends on the way.

732
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:49.679
We'll see you next week for Boomtown.

733
01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:58.260
In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

734
01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:07.739
And if you would like us to spend the evening with you sitting on the couch watching a Bond film, why not grab one of our James Bond commentary podcast over on Bondfinger?

735
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:13.679
That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

736
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:20.039
Can I just say, Moonraker is really good, but probably don't listen to it while you're drinking anything.

737
01:01:20.099 --> 01:01:25.320
Yeah, drink something beforehand because, yeah, you don't want to have a mouthful of liquid when we get to the space station.

738
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:28.559
How many times have I heard people say that?

739
01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:29.820
Gravity.

740
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:38.099
Until next time, may you find to your surprise and delight that you have one more leg than you actually thought you had.

741
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:39.780
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

742
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:41.099
I love it when that happens.

743
01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:43.619
Yes, no referencing Rolf Harris, couldn't I?

744
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:51.480
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan, Jones, and Richard Stone.

745
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:55.260
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Alberg.

746
01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:03.179
This episode, Sofa of Extreme Comfort, was recorded on the 22nd of July 2018, and released on the 29th of October.

747
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:14.820
And of course, you can hear more of this sort of nonsense on Jody interterror. a Doctor Who flash cast in which we chat about each new episode of Doctor Who series 11 near hours after it airs.

748
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:19.079
That's Jody Intetera.com and Jody Intetera on Apple Podcasts.

749
01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:23.699
Should we just talk about the final scene with Jack?

750
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:25.079
Yes.

751
01:02:25.139 --> 01:02:27.179
I've got nothing to say.

752
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.460
Let's try that again.

753
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:35.400
So let's just talk about, oh, do we have anything to talk about the ending or not?

754
01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:38.280
I need to think again.

755
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:45.480
So remember, he's like talking to his computer and ordering a martini and talking about waking up with his with his executioners.

756
01:02:45.539 --> 01:02:46.679
Lovely couple stayed in touch.

757
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:51.480
It's when you realise that Jonathan Frakes could have easily done the entire piece.

758
01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:53.880
With a beard. with a beard.

759
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:57.300
You would have been able to sit in chairs, though, the way that Jack does.

760
01:02:57.360 --> 01:02:58.199
No, this is true.

761
01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:06.900
I think at the time I knew that Jack was going to become a regular...