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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:36:51

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast where the world ends if we do dance.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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And I'm just back from up the butchers where he's really been

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extending the mints.

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Sausage casing.

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So we've spent a week trapped in a dingy hospital wards, surviving

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only on becks and back rubs, so it must be time.

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I miss Medicare.

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It must be time for us to finally get round to confronting this

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slowly advancing army of gas mask wearing zombies.

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Welcome at last.

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To Brexit. to the doctor dances.

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Did we get enough left wing jokes in there?

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I'm not sure.

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Not quite as much left-wing stuff as the actual story gets in

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because Tony Ben cited by don't forget the welfare stage.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So last week, and we didn't mention it, the doctor suggested that

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Nancy's little group of street urchins stealing food from the rich

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was kind of Marxism in action.

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And then this time we get, you know, the great post-war

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achievement of Britain, which was the welfare state, the fact that

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people in Britain had learned that they were kind of all on the

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same side, despite the massive sort of class divides, you know

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that plague and continue to plague Britain.

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There was a kind of mentality of pulling together and a kind of

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understanding that misfortune is not something that happens to you

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because you're particularly feckless or wicked or lazy, but just

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that you're unlucky.

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And so the great post-war project of the welfare state, you get, uh

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we've had a little bit of sort of left wingery sneaking its way

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into the season so far with this very working class doctor.

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But I think Moffat is the one who really kind of makes it explicit

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this story.

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It's kind of, it's funny saying this, for the time it was written

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it's only 13 years ago, but it's before even the UK had gay

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marriage.

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And it was just after the 1st attempt at it had been defeated here

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by both major parties.

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So let's not forget.

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And absolutely rammed through Parliament. in a very, very fast

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measure to put us in our place.

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Yeah, still better.

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But it takes one of the few straight members of the production

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team because, of course, the production team was headed up by 2

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gay men and architectural women, you know.

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I say that, you know, Mal Young was an executive producer, but

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even Mal Young said, you know, my job was to sort of smooth

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relations between a BBC in-house production, which we hadn't

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really done in a long time and the BBC.

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He wasn't a creative force on the show.

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It was an administrative force.

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But, you know, Russell T. Davies said at the time, we've got me.

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We've got Mark Gatis.

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We've got Phil Collins, but it's Stephen Moffat who comes in and

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puts in all the gay characters.

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And I think it's very important that we have someone like Stephen

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Moffat, who, you know, he is kind of a definition of someone who

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has all the privilege in the world.

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You know, he is relatively well off in a country where he can be

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successful in a creative role, he is a heterosexual white man.

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And he chooses in his texts to put in strong female characters

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strong queer characters.

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He writes a Scottish character.

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We Scottish characters.

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You know, he writes in people from societally disadvantaged

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backgrounds and gives them power and agency.

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I think what's interesting here is too, that none of the movies

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that we said that this was referencing would have been able to

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have been quite so explicit about the existence of gay people as

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this is.

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They didn't exist.

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Yeah, that's right. weren't there.

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And it's the same conversation that we end up having in thin ice

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with Bill, about non-white characters in the past.

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And it's great that Moffatt does this.

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And one of the things, like people, I think, correctly identify

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sometimes that Moffatt's writing can be a bit problematic.

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But I have absolutely no doubt that his heart is in the right

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place.

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And you can see during the course of his tenure on Doctor Who, that

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he learns in his 1st season of Doctor Who, there aren't any gay

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characters.

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And then he goes, actually, that's a real oversight.

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And here he gets to do a good gay character or a couple of good

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gay characters in Algae and Jack, and then the evil Mr. Lloyd, who

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has been exchanging, you know, pork for pork.

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Or for crackling.

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If I may jump in there.

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I've had a bit of a journey with this story because when it was

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1st on, it was my favourite of the entire season, and it is now my

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favourite of the entire season as well.

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But over the course of the last 13 years, I did actually go off it

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a bit and it was because of the character of Mr. Lloyd and because

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Nancy threatens to expose his queerness in order to get what she

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wants.

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And also that's played for comedy, which I objected to.

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But looking at it, it's like, well, no, this is accurate for the

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time.

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And here's a hypocrite.

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And he is a hypocrite. absolutely.

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And exceeding his bounds, he's taking more than his fair due.

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Yes, yes.

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I really think that's the impetus for it, not any form of...

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No, absolutely.

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And that's that's the conclusion I came to as well.

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It's like, well, hold on.

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This is both accurate to the time, but also no one threatens algae

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in that way.

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You know, so it's not, it's not a punishment of queer characters.

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It a punishment of an ignoble character.

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And also something I didn't pick up until I was watching this this

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week.

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When he's talking about I pay for the food on this table, the

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sweat on my brow, that is.

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That's the sweat on my brow.

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And I thought, yes, I'm sure it is, even if you're in the cool

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room, dear.

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Nancy gets a great callback to that because, of course, he's

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sweating at the threats and just as she leaves.

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She just says, there you go.

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There's the sweat on your brow.

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Yeah, yeah, beautiful.

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I think if we want representation, I think that we have to get to

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be villains.

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I think that we have to get to be ignoble and cowardly and selfish

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in if we're only that, then that's a problem.

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Absolutely.

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There's been a discussion recently in making video games because

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video games are starting to include more queer characters as well

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because video games as a storytelling narrative are often behind

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film, simply because the story usually takes a backseat too, say

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gameplay, you know, and how the game actually plays.

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But there's a very famous video game called The Last of Us, which

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is about 2 characters, a man and sort of an adopted surrogate

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daughter figure in the 1st game in the 2nd game.

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This character, Ellie, I believe she's called, is going to be a

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stronger lead character.

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And also they've introduced that she is a lesbian and she's having

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a relationship with another woman.

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And that prompted an author on Kataku, the website, to write an

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article entitled, Let queer characters and games be happy.

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And the author then cites all these examples of queer characters

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and games who come to a sticky end.

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It's kill your gaze.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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And the point she makes towards the end is, of course, queer

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characters can die as any character can die because if you have

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queer characters being immortal in games, there is no tension of

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whether they will survive.

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It would just be nice if some did.

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And I think that's a very important point.

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We need to be able to be villains.

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And to have bad things happen to our characters.

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So long as that's not the only thing, because when Stephen Moffatt

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does eventually introduce 2 gay characters, they're the fat, thin

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gay atheists, why would we need names and one of them is killed

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and his partner never finds out?

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And it's just like, yeah, yeah.

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And then he does better later down the line.

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Culminating in Bill, obviously.

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Yeah, yeah, the last main character that Stephen Moffat introduces

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is a lesbian of colour.

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He comes full circle.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, that's kind of been my journey with this story of going

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oh, actually, that's a bit horrible to, well, that means that this

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character of Mr. Lloyd.

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He's got what, 2 or 3 scenes, but we find out so much about him.

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Is he actually queer?

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Or is he just, you know, doing it for the pork, as it were?

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Yeah.

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Is this his wartime sacrifice?

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That defence always a little trickly a nebulous, really.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But, you know, it raises mystery about his character.

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Whereas we're told in no uncertain terms in the story that algae

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exclusively goes for men.

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Yeah, so there's that distract the guards moment.

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And, of course, Rose, who has watched plenty of genre TV knows

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that that's her job and she goes off the...

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And of course, Jack says, no, you're really not his type. is off

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to distract him.

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She has a real moment of this is just not clicking.

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The funny thing about Rose's reaction in that is it shows, and I

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think it's deliberate.

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It shows, despite her intelligence and her resourcefulness, Rose

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is quite a naive character.

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The idea of bisexuality, shocks and surprises her.

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She's quite young.

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But she's got this kind of look on her faces, but he was flirting

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with me.

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How can he now be flirting with her?

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And we'll also see next season.

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And even later on this season that she finds the idea of the

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doctor relating to anyone else, the way he relates to her, she

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finds that very confusing and hurtful. as you do when you're

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young.

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Absolutely.

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You know, this is my relationship.

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How can that relationship exist elsewhere?

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And it's very well played by Billy.

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Some people have quoted it as like a character oversight, but it's

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like, no, I think that is the character.

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This is her first true love.

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I think too, that there is a very definite attempt to, uh, like

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contrast the 3 time zones that our characters are from in so far

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as their kind of sexual mores are concerned.

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And it's a little bit like the unearthly child, not the empty

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child, an unearthly child, where you have very harsh criticism of

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Carol Anne.

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Well, she hasn't even had a sandwich.

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Take a drink.

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You know how you get the Doctor Who's from the far future.

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Barbara and Ian who are from the present and then the tribe of gum

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who are from, you know, 100,000 BC.

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Here you get the people from the 1940s with their sexual ethics.

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Then you get Billy, you get Rose, who's from 2005 with her sexual

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ethics, and then you get Jack from the 51st century, and it is a

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small...

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With his Magnus Greel ethics. where he just picks his bints out of

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a rotisserie, doesn't he?

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Oh my gosh.

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Like it turns out Todd was right all along.

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Why was Magnus Briel not picking up young men and putting them in

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the machine?

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He and Jack are from the same century and we've got a much more

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sort of enlightened and permissive attitude towards who we're

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prepared to dance with.

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Well, he was the butcher of Brisbane.

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Maybe he's a descendant of Lyle Shelton.

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Yeah.

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Ooh, Bangtish, which would involve anyone descending with Lyle

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Shelton. added great distance.

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Is this point where I can get all fanboyish and say, I don't

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understand how the sigma particle experiments, which wound up its

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own fundamental algae, possibly have anything to do with Jack.

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Why were they picking 51st centuries?

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Because we could just do another casual nod as longtime viewers?

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as in as in insane fanboys, i.e. yeah.

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Well, I think we've said before that Russell tries to get out of

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the way of Doctor Who continuity by setting everything in the sort

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of 2001st century or in the year 5000000000 or whatever, and they

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haven't wanted to go quite so far ahead.

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And Magnus Grill does talk about time agents.

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He does believe the doctor is a time agent.

250
00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:55.679
You're damn right.

251
00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.620
But so was was, I'm so sorry to do this to you.

252
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:03.059
But I know you're itching as much as I am, and it's not just the

253
00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:06.480
dogs on the sofa, of whom we have 2 lovely ones here, and Nathan

254
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.200
and Brendan.

255
00:14:07.259 --> 00:14:10.980
So there's Sigma experiments were going on parallel, but

256
00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:15.840
discreetly from the main, main time, and that maybe Greal was

257
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.019
looking to be another Elon Musk, because that can only go well.

258
00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:23.700
I think that I think that he thought that it was rather day class

259
00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.879
A to travel through time with a watch and he wanted to find a way

260
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.700
of travelling through time in our Chinese like a cabinet.

261
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:34.139
And that took a lot more energy than the watchers did, you see?

262
00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.779
So I think it all fits in very nice. beautifully.

263
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:37.740
Now you've explained it.

264
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.200
I can say, I don't know how I could have been so foolish not to

265
00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:40.799
have seen it, yeah.

266
00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:45.419
I think also, Magnus Greel is based on Earth, whereas Jack implies

267
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.059
several times he's been to other planets and other times.

268
00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:53.399
But in terms of the continuity, they had a very difficult job this

269
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:58.019
year, in that they had to appease fans by stating, you know, this

270
00:14:58.019 --> 00:14:59.940
is the same series, it is a continuation.

271
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.840
So if they're going to refer back to something, they need to make

272
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.399
damn sure they've got it right.

273
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:10.500
So if the script includes references to time agents, it doesn't

274
00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:13.080
surprise me at all that someone, whether it was Moffat or whether

275
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:17.879
it was Russell would say, okay, in that case, then Jack is from

276
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.700
the 51st century and that way we can tie it in.

277
00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.960
And it's the kind of continuity reference that we will get, but

278
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.379
the audience won't feel the general audience won't feel that

279
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:29.340
they've missed something.

280
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.259
No, they won't notice that it's a preference.

281
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.019
Yeah, any more than the sort of stuff about the eyesop galaxy or

282
00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:35.519
venom grubs.

283
00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:36.240
No, exactly.

284
00:15:36.299 --> 00:15:40.320
And yeah, I think it's the same reason that a few weeks ago, we

285
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:46.500
had a 60s, 70s cyberhead in the museum because it's like, what

286
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.440
kind of cyber stories got the largest amount of viewers.

287
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:50.279
What do people remember?

288
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:51.299
What do people remember?

289
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:55.200
And so fans will go, oh, well, that's ahead from the invasion

290
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:59.159
whereas casual viewers would go, oh, I think I watched that with

291
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:00.179
my dad.

292
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.379
Yeah, I remember that one.

293
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:01.860
Yeah.

294
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:03.299
They had flares.

295
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:08.879
Yeah, so I think this year they tread very deftly with

296
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:09.779
continuity.

297
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:12.840
And I remember being terribly excited when I could spot a

298
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:17.460
reference, you know, and even all these 13 years later, I still

299
00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:21.960
only just catch the reference to the ISOP galaxy in the long

300
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:22.259
game.

301
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.860
Oh, yeah, there's one in Bad Wolf as well, but there's one in the

302
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:27.179
long game on one of the news channels.

303
00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:27.779
Right, right.

304
00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:31.019
The face of Bo is referred to as being from the ISOP Galaxy.

305
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:32.940
Beautiful.

306
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.519
So, as always, I think we should get back to the topic of sex.

307
00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:49.200
So, the doctor dances, it's obviously an oblique way to talk about

308
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.759
the doctor having sex.

309
00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:52.919
The world doesn't end if the doctor dances.

310
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:57.240
And this season, we've talked about that show Bible before where

311
00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.000
Russell says that he doesn't want the doctor to be that new to

312
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.139
public schoolboy.

313
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:06.059
So the doctor very clearly, I think, this season sort of comes out

314
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:11.460
as heterosexual in a more explicit way than he has before, and

315
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:15.359
perhaps a less explicit way than he will next year, I think, with

316
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:15.900
Billy.

317
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.200
And we've always had Pat flirting with the female guest stars.

318
00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:27.000
Tom desperately trying to put his hands on Judith Paris. threw up

319
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.119
a row of psychone fencing and it still didn't stop him.

320
00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:30.539
No.

321
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.599
But here we have, you know, like this season we've had people ask

322
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.660
about the, whether the Dr. and Rose have a sexual relationship.

323
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:41.400
We have the doctor kind of going on a date with Jabe, and here we

324
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.160
do get the question of whether the doctor has sex.

325
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.880
And I think associated with that is. the 1st reference ever to the

326
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.200
doctor shaving as well.

327
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:49.920
Yes.

328
00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:50.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

329
00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:52.500
Although he had a shaving mirror, as we know.

330
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:53.940
Yes, that's true.

331
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:59.519
In the secondary console. which we used between season 10 and 11

332
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.400
when he asked Victoria to travel with him again in one of the

333
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.660
decalogues, I believe it was.

334
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.700
I'm a very passionate person.

335
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.599
You have my entire attention.

336
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:17.819
What I what I really love and adore about that scene where the Dr

337
00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:20.940
and Rose are trapped in that cupboard waiting for Jack to rescue

338
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:27.359
them is just the doctor's hurtness and defensiveness that Rose

339
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:33.720
assumes that he doesn't have desires and passions and loves. know

340
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:35.819
he has referred to the fact that he's lost everyone.

341
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:41.039
And so we get the implication here that he may have lost someone

342
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:41.880
he loves.

343
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.839
And Christopher Eccleston, of course, didn't do as many interviews

344
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:49.019
as his successors would do about the role.

345
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.839
But one thing he said about his interpretation of the character

346
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.700
that is always stuck with me is he said, the doctor's at Time Lord

347
00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:59.160
and Time Lords have 2 hearts, which means they can both be

348
00:18:59.160 --> 00:18:59.519
broken.

349
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:05.819
It brings back that melancholy that Sylvester McCoy is so often

350
00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:09.720
brought into the character and, you know, the doctor seems quite

351
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.380
hurt that Rose would just assume that he doesn't have this element

352
00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:14.099
to his life.

353
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.000
Yes.

354
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.500
And it's possible that the reason he presents himself that way.

355
00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:22.559
And I think the doctor's kind of thinking about that. hold on, is

356
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.900
that what I've shown you that I can't love?

357
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.460
And yeah, well, it kind of is, because you've been pushing away

358
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:33.000
love and affection, like when Jay reaches out to him, he doesn't

359
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:33.359
say anything.

360
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.859
I think also it's about the doctor not being that sort of matinee

361
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:40.079
idol hero that Jack is.

362
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:45.119
So Jack is very definitely presented to someone who dances, you

363
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.299
know, and he is handsome.

364
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.039
He dances on the top of his sheep.

365
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:53.220
He gives champagne to Rose, you know, all of that.

366
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:57.839
He's sort of sexy and she's been complaining that the doctor isn't

367
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:02.039
a proper hero at the very opening of last week's episode.

368
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:06.059
She talks about how they never leave earth and they nip back for

369
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:10.500
milk. and there's nothing sort of particularly glamorous or sexy

370
00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:12.240
or techie about the doctor.

371
00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:14.220
He's a little bit sort of ramshackle.

372
00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:18.960
And she says, you know, give me some spark, scan frailian tech, do

373
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.180
something really cool and science fiction-y.

374
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:24.240
Then Jack comes along and Jack is beating the doctor.

375
00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:28.259
The doctor's kind of being cucked a bit by Jack at this point.

376
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:32.220
And Jack comes along and he's dashing and he's got a big gun and

377
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:36.000
he makes fun of the doctor's tiny sonic screw.

378
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.779
And, you know, talks about how stupid it is and the doctor's

379
00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:42.779
visibly embarrassed about this screwdriver.

380
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.960
Yeah, and he struggles to sort of justify the screwdriver.

381
00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:48.660
He's like, haven't you ever been bored or had a lot of cabinets to

382
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:49.079
put up?

383
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.799
I get the impression there that the doctor suddenly thinks

384
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.059
actually why do I have this?

385
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.579
Why did I choose a screwdriver?

386
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.059
Going all the way back to the very beginning last week when the

387
00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:02.039
doctor says it's like a mauve alert?

388
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:04.019
And even Rose was like, that's not proper.

389
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:04.980
It's red alert.

390
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.319
Doctor's like only by your standards, you know?

391
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:10.079
It's all about, as we've been talking about, it's the different

392
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.900
Marais and customs.

393
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.440
And, you know, the doctor can kind of walk in and observe the

394
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.019
customs of someone else, but he doesn't necessarily take them on

395
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:19.500
board.

396
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:26.460
Whereas Jack does nothing to hide his 51st century sensibilities.

397
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.240
You know, when he flirts with algae, algae enjoys it, but he's, you

398
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.059
know, he's very worried and concerned about being found out.

399
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:36.059
Yeah, he's a little shocked by Jack's full witness.

400
00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:41.220
There's this undercurrent with the sexuality in this story that

401
00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:45.839
it's kind of like, it's a period of war, they don't think they're

402
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.619
going to get out of this.

403
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.740
You know, Nancy even says what future.

404
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.240
Hold on.

405
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:54.119
If you're a Londoner from the future, how come you sound English?

406
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:55.319
Why aren't you German?

407
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:57.359
They don't think that they're going to win this.

408
00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:59.759
So it's like, I've been kind of a good boy all my life.

409
00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:01.859
You can imagine algae thinking, I've been a good boy all my life

410
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:02.579
and gone for the girls.

411
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.859
Well, I'm going to be dead next week.

412
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.240
So no, I like boys.

413
00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:07.920
I'm like now.

414
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.519
I'm not going to shout it from the rooftops because I feel like I

415
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.500
can't, but I'm going to bloody indulge.

416
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:17.279
And, you know, Mr. Lloyd, if he is enjoying his trips to the

417
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:17.819
butchers.

418
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.279
He's going, well, this is the time for it.

419
00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:25.980
Nancy, 5 years ago, as a teenager, has obviously fallen for

420
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:29.700
someone who said he would be there in the original draft of the

421
00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:30.119
script.

422
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.160
Jamie's father was in the story.

423
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:33.000
Right.

424
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.259
And pretty much he was this mysterious figure who was helping

425
00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:39.420
Nancy from the periphery.

426
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.259
So, you know, he might scout out the building and call Nancy in.

427
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.240
And that was then streamlined for 2 reasons.

428
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:47.339
One, it's like, why do you need that character?

429
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.259
Nancy gets to be the one who goes in.

430
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:53.400
But two, it lends that degree of ambiguity of, okay, did he

431
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:55.200
abandon Nancy, was he a soldier?

432
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:56.519
Did he have to go off and fight?

433
00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:58.319
Was he a much older man?

434
00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:59.819
Did he already have a family?

435
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:01.140
and was this going on?

436
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.420
We're not given any of that information.

437
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:07.380
I think it is eventually made clear that she was very young.

438
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:12.180
And like if he'd gone off and been killed, she wouldn't have had

439
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:14.819
to say that Jamie was her brother.

440
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:18.779
And the thing that has got us into this mess that has got us into

441
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:24.779
this whole gas mask zombie mess is the sexual ethics prevalent in

442
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:25.859
the 1940s.

443
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:34.440
And if Jamie had known that Nancy was his mother, then the Chula

444
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.740
ambulance thing wouldn't have made the mistakes that it did.

445
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:42.240
And it's only rectified where she's able to stand up and say, I am

446
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:42.900
your mother.

447
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.019
This is a kid who has never known who his mother is.

448
00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:48.299
He doesn't know who his mother is.

449
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.980
He's got a big sister, but because it's outrageous and impossible

450
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:58.920
for her to stand up and say, yes, I wasn't married, but this is my

451
00:23:58.920 --> 00:23:59.339
son.

452
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.900
Just as it would be impossible for Mr. Lloyd to stand up and say

453
00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:04.920
that butch is hot.

454
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:09.720
I'm leaving Mrs. Lloyd for him or algae can't come out either.

455
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:15.420
All of this sort of oppressive mid-20th century sexual morality is

456
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:16.380
the problem here.

457
00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:18.720
And the solution to it is...

458
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:19.859
It's not the bombs, do you?

459
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:24.119
The solution is the 51st sexual morality that Jack brings to the

460
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.460
table or the couch or, yeah.

461
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:28.859
Pop dick.

462
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.720
So for extreme comfort.

463
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:35.880
Well, I mean, Moffat wrote, joking apart is like a really kind of

464
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.339
slightly embarrassing sex comedy.

465
00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:43.019
It predates coupling, which is slightly less embarrassing sex

466
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:43.619
comedy.

467
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.039
But, you know, Moffatt, that's where Moffatt made his name in TV.

468
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:50.279
And it's nice for the 1st time, I think, to have a Doctor Who

469
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:53.940
story that comments on sexual ethics is a central part of it, sort

470
00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:56.039
of thematic architecture.

471
00:24:56.099 --> 00:25:00.000
Again, it links back to the Sylvester McCoy era.

472
00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:03.420
And the interesting thing was when the series was being publicised

473
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:06.660
before it came back, Russell T. Davies had said in an interview

474
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:09.660
when he was talking about the tone of the series, oh, you know

475
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:12.839
we're looking back to older eras of the show, like the Hinchcliffe

476
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:13.200
era.

477
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.740
And some tabloids, and I believe I mentioned this back in Rose.

478
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:20.700
Some tabloids then picked that up as the series is going to carry

479
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:24.660
on from season 14 and ignore everything that came afterwards, and

480
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:25.740
it's a semi-reboot.

481
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:27.960
And Russell then had to come out and give an interview and say, no

482
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:30.720
no, no, I love all eras of Doctor Who.

483
00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:35.279
And he even cited, for instance, a lot of people think the last 3

484
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.859
years of Doctor Who were terrible was Sylvester McCoy.

485
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.440
But we are building on that a lot.

486
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:44.400
We have a character who's from London and we, and he even said, we

487
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.579
probably wouldn't be able to do this without the groundwork that

488
00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:51.420
Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred had laid because I remember then

489
00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:53.640
Sophie Aldred said in an interview, they're talking about the

490
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:56.339
stuff we did and saying it's an antecedent of what they're doing

491
00:25:56.339 --> 00:25:57.059
which is amazing.

492
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:59.460
We didn't think anyone was watching. you know.

493
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.559
Back in the curse of Fenrick.

494
00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:03.779
It starts introducing Ace's sexuality.

495
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.420
You know, there'd been hints beforehand.

496
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.420
But again, that's the World War 2 setting.

497
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:13.380
And the whole reason that Ace is able to seduce that guard is

498
00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:17.759
because she acts in a way contrary to how a woman would act.

499
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:20.940
And of course, we have Kathleen being shocked at the idea that

500
00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:22.619
Audrey might be born out of wedlock.

501
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.539
Yeah, that's the same thing, isn't it?

502
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:28.259
Where Ace just casually assumes that Kathleen's not married

503
00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:31.680
because she's young and like none of Ace's friends are married

504
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:31.980
probably.

505
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.200
And then Kathleen's quite shocked by that.

506
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:35.640
Yeah, shocked and offended.

507
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:36.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

508
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:38.880
You know, I'm not I'm not that kind of girl.

509
00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:42.059
And, of course, we've got Mrs. Hardacre saying, you know, any

510
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.980
expression of female sexuality is evil.

511
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:45.720
Because she was that kind of girl.

512
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:48.720
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah subtext there.

513
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:53.759
Whereas here, people are set free by acknowledging.

514
00:26:53.819 --> 00:26:54.960
Actually, this is a bit stupid.

515
00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:55.680
This is my son.

516
00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:56.759
Yeah.

517
00:26:56.819 --> 00:27:03.420
That scene is so powerfully played because the realisation leading

518
00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:06.539
up to the moment where the doctor figures it all out.

519
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.819
It's mostly played with looks.

520
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.839
The monsters are around saying, are you my mummy, are you my

521
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:13.079
mummy?

522
00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:14.099
And Nancy says it's all my fault.

523
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.680
And the doctor says, how can it be your, and then it's just

524
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:21.180
cutting between the zombies and the doctor and Nancy and just

525
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:22.319
their looks to each other?

526
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.839
And then the doctor spells it all out.

527
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.119
And yeah, we praised her last week.

528
00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:30.000
But yeah, Florence Howath puts in a great job again here.

529
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:34.799
Now, I don't know exactly which scene it is, but there's one scene

530
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:39.119
in this episode with Nancy, which was a Philocine, and for ages

531
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.779
that I heard it was the scene with the typewriter, with one of the

532
00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:45.240
kids writing a letter to his dad, and then the child takes control

533
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.880
of the typewriter, and I believe Stephen Moffatt said in

534
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.279
interviews, yes, I had to write that scene quite late, and that's

535
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.339
why it doesn't make much sense because the kid can control

536
00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:54.299
speakers.

537
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.799
Not any machine.

538
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:58.980
How can he suddenly control a typewriter, but, you know, we had 2

539
00:27:58.980 --> 00:27:59.640
minutes to fill.

540
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:04.019
It's also the same beat that he does earlier in the episode as

541
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:07.980
well, where, which I think is fabulous, where they're playing the

542
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:12.359
recordings of Dr. Tate, talking to Jamie when he 1st arrived in

543
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:16.440
the hospital. and you hear him speaking, but you can hear this

544
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.200
crackling sound. and it's really well directed because if you're

545
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.480
paying attention, you actually know what's going on.

546
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.599
The tape has reached its end and it's just making that sort of

547
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:28.019
noise of a reel-to-reel tape going around and the sort of crinkly

548
00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:31.799
bit of tape, hitting it, but the voices are still going, and then

549
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:35.339
we suddenly realise that in fact the tape has reached its end and

550
00:28:35.339 --> 00:28:38.279
it's actually Jamie approaching, controlling the speaker.

551
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:42.420
Now we have everyone's talking, the typewriter's still going, and

552
00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:45.599
then it turns out the kid's not typing any longer because it's

553
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:46.500
Jamie approaching.

554
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.240
So it does dilute that a bit.

555
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:50.880
But the 1st version of it is so moffety.

556
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:53.039
So brilliantly moffity and so scary.

557
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:58.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah. especially Eccleston's reaction, because he

558
00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:03.000
plays it both as like utter fascination with what's happening, but

559
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.319
slowly building terror, because he kind of goes, it's got the

560
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:07.920
power of a God.

561
00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:08.880
I've sent it to its room.

562
00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:10.380
This is its room.

563
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:14.819
I think that he realises what's going on too, because Rose nags

564
00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:17.759
him a couple of times about what the sound is, what that crackling

565
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:19.440
noise is, and he ignores her.

566
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:20.160
Yeah, yeah.

567
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.680
I think he knows that that's Jamie coming.

568
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:26.160
And you know, then we've get the whole thing with the banana.

569
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:32.039
See, I think that's where the doctor starts to win.

570
00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:37.380
I think that had this sort of phase where Jack is the better hero

571
00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:40.319
than the doctor because he's sort of sexier and more techie and

572
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.859
has more Spock going and the doctor seems a little bit

573
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:44.519
embarrassed.

574
00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:48.900
But then he's sort of surreptitiously stealing Jack's squareness

575
00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:52.920
gun and going back in time to destroy the place that comes from

576
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:55.019
and replace it with a banana plantation.

577
00:29:55.079 --> 00:30:01.200
And like his sort of much sillier, much less violent approach to

578
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:01.740
being a hero.

579
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.859
Yeah, he wins because he's not a yank and the British will always

580
00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:05.579
side with their own.

581
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:07.259
He's the George Formby in this comedy.

582
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:13.140
If Jack is whomever you want to Paul Hein Reid, whomever you want

583
00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:15.660
to cast, is the glamorous matinee idol.

584
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.519
And of course, the home counties always win.

585
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.359
But, well, that's, yes, we have no bananas.

586
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:23.640
It's actually referencing that's great.

587
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.019
Which was a wartime here.

588
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:26.160
Yes, yes.

589
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:26.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

590
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.519
It can't have been easy to get bananas in London actually.

591
00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:30.299
They weren't around.

592
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:31.859
They were doing U SATs bananas.

593
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.960
Made out of jackfruit and jack boots.

594
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:34.740
Donuts.

595
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.099
And all the other bits of jack that weren't necessary.

596
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.460
This precise moment for any other deeds, yes.

597
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:51.000
Every generation. loves and seems to reboot when they come of age

598
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.099
the period just when they were born.

599
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:58.140
You know, which is why you tend to get fashion and theatre tropes

600
00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:03.839
and indeed, aesthetics on a wider socialist level. sort of kind of

601
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:04.740
spinning every 20 years.

602
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:09.539
The 70s were very 1930s, 40s in, in film references and in clothes

603
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.619
of course, of that generation.

604
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.160
We're seeing a bit of 80s, 90s, redundancy now.

605
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.079
Those kids, as poor children.

606
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:17.099
That's all they had.

607
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.259
That's all we left to revive.

608
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.079
And we were interested in the mod aspects and well, Doctor Who.

609
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:25.920
But this now, we also have that other point where that generation

610
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.740
was starting to properly leave us the very last of them.

611
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:34.380
And there's a real heartburning of the great loss and that have

612
00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:37.740
been in British films a long time, but it was really starting to

613
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:38.160
come up.

614
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.140
And it's interesting seeing it now.

615
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.140
It's something of our Anzac, our own in Australia.

616
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:46.380
We have the Anzac memory or the Anzac Memorial, which has become

617
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:50.039
in both in its physical presence and in its march each year, which

618
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:54.539
has become something really quite extreme and not at all what it

619
00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:58.140
was when those diggers were still alive, which was, oh, yes, we

620
00:31:58.140 --> 00:31:59.759
honour them, but we don't make a fuss about it.

621
00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:01.440
It's no big thing.

622
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:04.140
It's actually something, you know, there's a lot of shame in this

623
00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.759
on every level.

624
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:08.220
We'll just acknowledge quietly.

625
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:13.079
And this was kind of the last beat of that before, I think you'll

626
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:13.559
start to see.

627
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:16.440
We mentioned it last week, but you'll start to see with Brexit

628
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.559
coming that you'll be getting, I think, something a little bit

629
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:25.319
boulderized and perhaps overweening in the 40s nostalgia that's

630
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:25.980
about to come up.

631
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.420
But this is a lovely point in between the 2 and the films that we

632
00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:33.240
were just talking about and my pick of the week later on.

633
00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:37.559
So, again, there's a lot to be thankful to Moffatt for, to Mr

634
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:38.460
Stephen Moffatt.

635
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.140
He doesn't like being called Moffat.

636
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.579
Apparently, he's not a brand.

637
00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:47.099
Or, you know, or brute 33, whatever it is.

638
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.519
But he it's a beautiful balancing act.

639
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:54.180
This 2 powder, and I was terribly excited at the time because I

640
00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:57.000
thought, oh, goody, we're getting back to 4 parties, again, being

641
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.619
a loyal big finish.

642
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.920
I can split this up and pretend it's 4 episodes.

643
00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:05.640
It is 4 episodes only without quite so much standing around

644
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:06.720
cheaply in corridors.

645
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:07.859
How true, isn't it?

646
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.579
The thing is, there is still a bit of urgent standing in corridors

647
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.660
and hospital wards.

648
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:15.480
You know, which, yeah, Stephen Moffatt says Doctor Who is about

649
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.160
urgent standing at corridors.

650
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:21.119
Actors speaking to each other and reading its theatre.

651
00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:22.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

652
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:26.880
I have to say one of one of the sort of most heartrending moments

653
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.619
in this for me.

654
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:33.119
It's the beginning of the redemption of Jack, because the whole

655
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:36.660
thing is, yeah, okay, Jack is your matinee idol.

656
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:37.859
He's the hero with the gun.

657
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:38.880
He's the sexy one.

658
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:43.200
He's he's Captain Kirk, but the situation starts to get out of

659
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:43.619
control.

660
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.960
And the situation for Jack gets out of control.

661
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:47.940
And John Barriman plays it really well.

662
00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:51.839
Again, it's all about looks, is when he approaches Algae and Algae

663
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:53.640
turns around and says, are you my mummy?

664
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:58.680
And the look on Jack's face is heartbreaking, because until this

665
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.319
point, you're kind of led to believe that as flirty as Jack is, he

666
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:04.319
doesn't actually care about anyone, you know, it's all just a

667
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:04.799
con.

668
00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:08.219
It's, you know, yeah, I go to Pompeii, but I get out before

669
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:10.800
volcano day, you know, he doesn't care that all those people have

670
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.519
died, but he likes algae and when he sees that happen to algae and

671
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.619
begins to realise that this is his fault.

672
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.179
It's actually a really bittersweet moment, and I think it's the

673
00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:24.360
1st time we see him show kind of genuine emotion that's not just

674
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.440
about the con, and that's where his redemption begins.

675
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:31.860
And he becomes so desperate to say, this isn't my fault.

676
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:33.119
This isn't my fault. isn't my fault.

677
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:36.420
And when the doctor points out, well, actually, it's this.

678
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.900
Again, he's horrified and his only defence is I didn't know.

679
00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:42.480
Didn't stand up in the Hague.

680
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:47.039
No, but I mean, but that is what prompts his actual redemption.

681
00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:51.000
So he gets kind of the doctor's winning at this point because he

682
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.780
cares more and because he's more fun and more silly than Jack.

683
00:34:54.780 --> 00:35:00.300
And Jack realises that he has to make it rise in order to save

684
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:00.900
everyone.

685
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.699
So he gets to die heroically, like a sort of proper hero in a way

686
00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:07.260
that sort of immediately subverted.

687
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:11.159
We get that wonderful Doctor Strange love.

688
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.199
God, yes.

689
00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:15.000
That was another filming reference.

690
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:20.340
I have heard somewhere that the script reads Jack is sitting on

691
00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:25.139
the bomb and they viewed it, I believe, in the original script.

692
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.840
Russell T Davies sort of saw him as, you know, he's sitting on it

693
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:28.619
like a park bench.

694
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.920
You know, he's sitting, he's sitting side saddle, as it were.

695
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:33.300
Well, it is Jack.

696
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:36.659
But apparently it was John Barriman when he got into the studio, he

697
00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:40.920
just got astride it and they went, actually, there you go.

698
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:45.719
That also gives us our bad wolf reference for this episode because

699
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.460
the bomb has on the side of it written Schleichter Wolf.

700
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.280
But the problem is the translation's really dodgy and it actually

701
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:56.639
translates to naughty wolf rather than bad.

702
00:35:56.699 --> 00:35:58.500
It's like rummy wolf.

703
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.139
You chose the wrong German word.

704
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:05.159
It's like we have a very precise language, you know, it's this or

705
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:05.460
this.

706
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.940
Also, in that moment, and this is something that James has pointed

707
00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:12.719
out to me in the past, we start getting the strings from the

708
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.119
Doctor Who theme in the incidental music.

709
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:20.099
And at the time this episode went out, James's partner was a

710
00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:23.460
musician and DJ and wasn't big into Doctor Who, but loved the

711
00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:24.360
music of Doctor Who.

712
00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:27.239
And so James learned a lot about music as well.

713
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:31.260
And because the Doctor Who theme is not owned by the BBC, it is

714
00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:34.139
licensed from, I believe, Warner Music owned the copyright.

715
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.800
And that's why when this was coming on and also with the telemovie

716
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.440
there was doubt as to whether they would be able to retain the

717
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:40.739
theme.

718
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.420
So in Murray Gold's theme arrangement, he introduces the strings

719
00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:49.320
as a counter melody, so he can use those in the incidental music.

720
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:54.780
Whereas using the actual sort of melody of the Doctor Who theme

721
00:36:54.780 --> 00:36:58.079
could incur, you know, an extra usage fee.

722
00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:02.519
He can use the bits he's introduced to the theme to link the

723
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.880
incidental music to the theme and sort of make that, you know, this

724
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:07.500
is the theme of when the doctor starts to win.

725
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:11.099
But that's also part of the reason that he will go on to develop

726
00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:15.780
themes for each doctor and each character, because, you know, we

727
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:17.280
know that that's I am the doctor.

728
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:20.400
We know that that's am I a good man and that is the music for this

729
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:20.880
character.

730
00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:25.079
But yeah, it's when Jack is sitting on the bomb and we're getting

731
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:28.139
the strings that are just lifted from the theme, but it's really

732
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.300
effective because it ties that in.

733
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:35.760
From another production standpoint, before we get to the ending, I

734
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.960
love the cinematography and the light and the colouring in this

735
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:40.320
story.

736
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:42.179
It is so cold.

737
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:43.260
It feels so cold.

738
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:48.480
And the whole thing happens at night, you know, which is so rare.

739
00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:51.420
I don't think we've ever had a Doctor Who story with external

740
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:53.880
filming that's been entirely at night.

741
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:57.840
I think the closest and it's not external, but things like the

742
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:02.400
horror, Wing Chiang, horror fang rock happens in one night kind of

743
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:02.579
thing.

744
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:05.880
But yeah, there's so much external stuff happening here.

745
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.940
And... happiness patrol.

746
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:13.380
Something else I picked up on with the cinematography. was last

747
00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:13.619
week.

748
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:18.900
The 2 phone calls the doctor gets when the phone rings, the shots

749
00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:20.400
are framed in a similar way.

750
00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:22.500
So you've got the phone on one side of the screen.

751
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:23.760
You've got the doctor on the other side of the screen.

752
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:26.099
You've got Nancy standing behind in the distance.

753
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.579
And then, so the 1st one, the TARDIS phone is on the right

754
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:33.000
doctor's on the left. 2nd one, phone is on the left, doctor's on

755
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:33.420
the right.

756
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:37.920
And also there's a there's a Batman angle just to make you feel

757
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:39.599
uneasy and make you feel strange.

758
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:42.960
And speaking of that whole four-parter thing.

759
00:38:43.019 --> 00:38:48.059
The great thing is, if you were to divide last week's episode into

760
00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:48.719
2 parts.

761
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:52.139
The cliffhanger is when the doctor opens the door for the child.

762
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.260
And just imagine that as a cliffhanger.

763
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:55.980
Doctor opens the door.

764
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.800
You don't see what's on the other side of the door, credits, and

765
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:02.039
then the reprise, and then the solution is, the kid's gone.

766
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:04.619
It's a great falling action there.

767
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:06.900
And that's another great moment for Eccleston.

768
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:09.780
You know, he's he's been the child left out in the cold, which is

769
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:11.519
a theme Stephen Moffatt will run with.

770
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:13.980
The more he writes for the character.

771
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.380
So he feels sympathy for this child.

772
00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:20.760
And yeah, it's it's the doctor's sort of detached curiosity that

773
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:21.659
he always has.

774
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:24.539
But at the same time, you know, he has to know and he has to save

775
00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:25.500
this child.

776
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.300
And with the ending as we get to it, We've had so much death this

777
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:30.599
season.

778
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:37.019
And so much of other characters solving the problem.

779
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.139
Like, um, I remember one story that came in for a lot of criticism

780
00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:45.059
at the time was the long game because basically the doctor is

781
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:48.659
restrained during the whole denouement and it's, it's all down to

782
00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:52.079
him having inspired someone half an hour ago who then, who then

783
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.460
comes up and solves the problem.

784
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.960
But here, yeah, the doctor gets to do it instead.

785
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.300
I think he inspires 2 people.

786
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:03.900
He inspires Jack to go back and kind of fix the problem.

787
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.760
And then he inspires Nancy to make her admission and he's right

788
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:09.599
there doing it.

789
00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:11.519
And he also gets to do some magic.

790
00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:14.039
You know, like he gets to do some...

791
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:15.300
Well, some very Harry Potter effects.

792
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.260
Yeah, yeah.

793
00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:18.059
And I think that that's very deliberate as well.

794
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:20.280
You know, the doctor doesn't solve things with guns.

795
00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:21.659
He solves things with magic.

796
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.519
He's the doctor.

797
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.159
It's the Maggie Smith of the production all along.

798
00:40:26.219 --> 00:40:26.639
Yeah.

799
00:40:26.699 --> 00:40:28.500
It's doing the accent.

800
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:33.960
Like the nano genes are established very clearly and mentioned a

801
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:35.579
bunch of times in the 1st episode.

802
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:39.900
Jack has the ability to take control of speakers.

803
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:44.880
So all of this sort of stuff, because Moffat will create monsters

804
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:49.320
that are whatever shape is needed for the plot, and people talk

805
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.980
about blink being sort of great, but blink cheat horrifically by

806
00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:58.739
making the monsters be and do whatever. he thinks will look cool

807
00:40:58.739 --> 00:41:00.780
and will serve the plot.

808
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.199
And he brilliantly takes them out of context the following year

809
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:05.760
and actually uses them for something else.

810
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:09.900
But you couldn't take the Chula Warship ambulance things out of

811
00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:13.739
context because they're completely dependent on whatever it is

812
00:41:13.739 --> 00:41:17.519
that the plot needs to happen or whatever visual set pieces we

813
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:18.420
need. you know.

814
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:19.980
Yeah, hexacromite gas.

815
00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:23.219
Lethal to reptile and marine life.

816
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:24.900
Yeah, we just have it hanging around.

817
00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:31.199
But it does give us that fantastic moment and it's maybe one of

818
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:35.219
Eggleston's best moments in the series where, just of excitement

819
00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:37.920
just give me this one, just this once.

820
00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:42.480
Everybody lives. that so many times in the past, haven't we, Mr

821
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:42.960
Seward?

822
00:41:43.019 --> 00:41:43.739
We have.

823
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.579
And that's actually a whole go-at say, wasn't it?

824
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:49.619
It's the opposite of resurrection of the time.

825
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:54.300
You can see Janet Fielding sitting at home saying, I would have

826
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:55.739
bloody stayed at that time.

827
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:58.739
Even that woman's leg.

828
00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:02.820
My leg's grown back.

829
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:04.440
And it wants to go to E's room.

830
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.880
It's saying I've got a really horrible dress.

831
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:13.079
And this is the greatest comedic throwaway line, which is so

832
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.039
British comedy.

833
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:15.300
Well, there is a war on.

834
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:24.719
That scene just made me so, so sad that Eccleston was going.

835
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:30.599
Because you can see what Russell T. Davies was doing is he's like

836
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:32.820
we're going to do the Colin Baker thing. going to have a very long

837
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:35.760
arc to get to know this character, and for God's sake, never say

838
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:36.000
that.

839
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:39.059
Never ends well.

840
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:40.920
It's so true, isn't it?

841
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:45.179
So, you know, this is obviously we're going to have sort of a year

842
00:42:45.179 --> 00:42:48.480
and towards the end of that year is when he gets better and he

843
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:53.579
starts being the doctor and being, you know, the sort of happy

844
00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:57.900
figure the doctor should be and we're going to build up to that.

845
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.179
And then, you know, in a few weeks just to finish off.

846
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.519
He is going to wipe out the Daleks once and for all.

847
00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:05.280
He's going to end the time war and, you know, then we'll go on to

848
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.639
him, you know, being all chummy with Queen Victoria and, oh God

849
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:09.780
now we've lost our lead actor.

850
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:14.159
And dare I say it, and I may say this in future appearances.

851
00:43:14.219 --> 00:43:17.159
I think that's why losing Eccleston.

852
00:43:17.219 --> 00:43:25.380
It sets the series back because we're not able to finish that idea

853
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:26.699
of him healing.

854
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:31.500
And so when he regenerates, David Tennant's doctor has to carry

855
00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:34.679
that and really he has to carry it all through his tenure.

856
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:39.840
And it's not even until Matt Smith that we're able to start to get

857
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:40.559
over that guilt.

858
00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:43.619
I mean, it's explicitly got over in day of the doctor.

859
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:44.760
Exactly.

860
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:45.480
It takes all that time.

861
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:47.820
Maybe it was supposed to, but I certainly agree with you.

862
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:52.679
I'm really pacing myself for season 2 and now we'll be watching it

863
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:54.480
imagining what would Eccleston have done?

864
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:57.719
I also think losing Billy at the end of season 2 has a big effect

865
00:43:57.719 --> 00:43:59.219
on what he planned to do as well.

866
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.559
Was she going to stay?

867
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:02.699
Was that the plan to stay longer?

868
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:04.199
I thought 2 years was good.

869
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:08.039
I don't think that his original intention was to change cast every

870
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:09.840
year, which is what he ends up doing.

871
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:12.900
And that series Bible says we're not even going to mention

872
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:15.360
regeneration because it just might not come to that.

873
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:19.920
And then he discovers that he's going to be doing, you know, what

874
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.579
happened during the Heartnal era where or the Trout era where you

875
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:25.079
have a change of cast every year.

876
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:29.099
And I think that the thing that he intended to set up doesn't come

877
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:29.280
off.

878
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:31.260
We'll get more of that when we talk about season two.

879
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:35.340
But yeah, I mean, this is the story that made me miss Eccleston in

880
00:44:35.340 --> 00:44:35.820
advance.

881
00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:39.599
It's like, 0 God, the end is coming and I'm really not ready for

882
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:39.900
it.

883
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:41.699
I feel like I've just met you kind of thing.

884
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:43.019
I'm just getting to know you.

885
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:45.719
And suddenly the party's over and you're getting on a plane

886
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:47.820
tomorrow, you know, is how it feels.

887
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:49.739
And it's like, you know, what might have been?

888
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:53.940
And what might have been is Eccleston, who feels like he doesn't

889
00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:58.380
get happiness and doesn't get comedy right, is that appropriately

890
00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:01.139
enough for an episode entitled The Doctor Dances, he doesn't set a

891
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:02.760
foot wrong in this story.

892
00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:06.900
You know, he pictures everything perfectly from the vulnerability

893
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:09.119
of kind of saying to Rose.

894
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:10.619
Look, I am capable of that.

895
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:12.659
I am capable of romance.

896
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:13.679
I am capable of caring.

897
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.579
Right through to his utter triumph at the end.

898
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:21.420
And, you know, Rose even comments, look at you beaming away like

899
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:23.760
your father Christmas, you know, Rose comments, basically.

900
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:25.139
I've never seen you this happy.

901
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:31.559
Yeah, it's it's powerful and if we hadn't known that he was going

902
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:35.460
thank you, BBC publicity department for totally cocking that up, if

903
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:38.940
we hadn't known that he was going, how happy would we have been?

904
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:43.800
Because that's the thing, this whole season has that undercurrent

905
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.579
of knowing that he's a Mayfly. going to be gone soon.

906
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.239
How did he get on with James Hawes?

907
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.559
How was all of that working up?

908
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:58.380
Uh, we don't know, but eventually, I think the plan had been

909
00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:03.599
originally for Graham Harper to do the final recording block, uh

910
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:07.139
and he said that he wanted Joe Hearn, and he was pretty insistent

911
00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:09.119
that Joe Hearn should do it instead.

912
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:12.900
I think James Horse does a good job of this. backed for the

913
00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:13.739
Christmas invasion.

914
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:15.000
He's good, I think.

915
00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:15.719
Yeah.

916
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:19.860
I think the only director, actually, 2 directors that Eccleston

917
00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:20.820
apparently didn't get on.

918
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.380
Well, we know he didn't get on with Keith Boke.

919
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:26.460
And I have heard that he also didn't gel well with thumb Brian

920
00:46:26.460 --> 00:46:28.800
Gant, who directed The Long Game.

921
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:34.199
I haven't heard anything particularly about him and James Hawes

922
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:38.039
but yeah, there is that whole thing of he pretty much he wanted

923
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:39.420
Joe Hearn to direct everything.

924
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.159
He got on really well with Joe O Hearn.

925
00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:43.920
And even 5 years ago when he was talking about not doing the

926
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:44.820
anniversary special.

927
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.699
He said, I might come back if Joe Aherne directs.

928
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:50.940
And of course, we've heard from other sources that Joe Hearn will

929
00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:53.880
never direct again for Doctor Who because basically his partner

930
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:59.880
said, it's me or Doctor Who, because just because Eccleston

931
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.539
demanded him back on the show, he was incredibly overworked and

932
00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:04.619
incredibly overstretched.

933
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.860
And, you know, it's a bit like there are certain media companies

934
00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:10.440
that Rod said to me, you're not allowed to work for them again.

935
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:12.719
You're absolute hell when you're working for them.

936
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:16.860
It's a matter of if I had to take a job with him, he would

937
00:47:16.860 --> 00:47:17.460
disapprove.

938
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.440
He wouldn't actually react all that badly.

939
00:47:19.500 --> 00:47:23.099
But it is that kind of thing of, you know, jobs can affect you in

940
00:47:23.099 --> 00:47:23.400
that way.

941
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:27.840
Because you're off in Cardiff doing it as well. presumably away

942
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:28.199
from home.

943
00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:31.139
That's a long way from Newtown for Brendan.

944
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:38.579
And especially with the finale being apparently such a tense

945
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:41.820
environment to nobody really talking to anyone and having to have

946
00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:44.760
your 3 leads shot entirely separately.

947
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:46.559
Yeah.

948
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:51.780
I believe it was this episode that was shot at the same time as

949
00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:56.340
the long game, and also, if you look at the long game, entirely

950
00:47:56.340 --> 00:47:56.940
studio bound.

951
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.800
If you look at this, lots of location work.

952
00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:02.940
If you look at the long game, there's lots of scenes without Chris

953
00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:06.420
and Billy, if you look at this in the 1st episode, Chris and Billy

954
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:07.980
are separated for ages.

955
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:12.960
So it wasn't as the Dr. Light episodes would be, you know, shot

956
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.780
entirely at the same time, but there was a lot of overlap to allow

957
00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:17.519
for that kind of scheduling.

958
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:21.659
Boomtown next week will essentially be the Doctor Light episode.

959
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:23.639
And again, they split everyone into three.

960
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:28.739
So you can have essentially 13rd of the usual workload for each of

961
00:48:28.739 --> 00:48:29.280
the leads.

962
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:34.679
And yeah, here, of course, I think it's more, the traditional

963
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:37.320
Doctor Who structure of doctor and companion get separated, doctor

964
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.659
and companion come back together later in the story and compare

965
00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:40.019
notes.

966
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:41.159
Yeah.

967
00:48:50.219 --> 00:48:54.960
I think at the time, I knew that Jack was going to become a

968
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:55.500
regular.

969
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.460
I don't think they were shy about that because the casting of

970
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:01.920
Barrowman was very heavily announced because, of course, he was

971
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:04.559
such a name and remained such a name, you know.

972
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:07.739
And of course, from our perspective, we heard, oh, my God, you

973
00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:11.400
know, we've got an openly gay man playing regular on the poop.

974
00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:16.380
That being said, that final seed is very much shot like, you know

975
00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:18.300
this character is going to make a sacrifice.

976
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:23.820
And because we've had several sacrificial characters over the

977
00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:29.820
course of this year, you know, we have Pete, we had um, Clive, we

978
00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:33.599
had Harriet Jones, who was willing to sacrifice herself, but she's

979
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:33.900
fine.

980
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:36.059
You know, we have Suki.

981
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.880
It's played like, yeah, this is this week's sacrifice.

982
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.059
But the thing is, the doctors already said, no, everyone lives

983
00:49:42.059 --> 00:49:42.480
this time.

984
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:44.039
So he has to come in.

985
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:47.099
And that wonderful pullback shot.

986
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:49.619
I remember watching that thinking and we're just going to see it

987
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:51.059
explode now and oh, that's so sad.

988
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:54.000
Then we pull back through the doors and Glenn Miller's playing

989
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:54.420
again.

990
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:56.280
And we're in the tart.

991
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:57.179
We're in the tartars.

992
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.519
And because the doctor's not even hanging out saying, go away, go

993
00:49:59.519 --> 00:49:59.699
away.

994
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.139
No, he's like, no, I'm dancing with Rose.

995
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:02.460
You can come in if you like, you know.

996
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:04.559
Do you think, is that mattered?

997
00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:08.579
I think it looks so good that I just want to, in my head, cannon.

998
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:11.820
They just built the 2 sets next to one another and he just sort of

999
00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:13.320
walks through from one end to the other.

1000
00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:14.639
I think it's so great.

1001
00:50:14.699 --> 00:50:15.539
It's so well done.

1002
00:50:15.659 --> 00:50:16.500
Yeah, yeah.

1003
00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:18.719
And again, sort of just moffity and clever.

1004
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.460
No, I'm pretty sure they did do that.

1005
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.179
They did attach that set to the Tartis Outer Dorks because that

1006
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:27.840
whole Tartis console room was a standing set with the exterior

1007
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:28.440
doors outside.

1008
00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:32.280
It's basically the toy that they later released and is out again

1009
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:32.579
Richard.

1010
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:34.440
So if you missed out on getting it last time.

1011
00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:38.639
I mean, I like to make my own, but this one is quite fiddly, all

1012
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:39.239
those curves.

1013
00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:41.940
Like literally the only reason I haven't bought it is I have the

1014
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:44.159
Matt Smith one and it's been sitting in the garage for 6 years

1015
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.199
because I don't have any room for it.

1016
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:47.099
Yes, we don't.

1017
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:47.760
We don't.

1018
00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:50.880
Yeah, it's a beautiful shot and a beautiful moment.

1019
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:56.699
But also it sums up the relationship between the 3 characters as

1020
00:50:56.699 --> 00:50:57.300
it's developing.

1021
00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:00.539
Because, you know, when he steps aboard the Tartars, Rose

1022
00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:04.559
immediately wants to dance with him, but with this threat, the

1023
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:06.179
doctor needs to assert himself.

1024
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:09.780
And, you know, he needs to assert himself as I'm the manager, but

1025
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:12.420
he does it by swing dancing around the console room.

1026
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.760
You know, he doesn't go, I've got a bigger gun.

1027
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:18.659
He goes, look, yeah, yeah, you can do all that.

1028
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:20.340
Well, I can do what you do too, mate.

1029
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:26.159
And I feel a bit uncomfortable with that, but I think I'm meant to

1030
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:29.760
because the last shot after the doctor takes a rose for a dip is

1031
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:33.719
he looks over at Jack and we end on the doctor looking at Jack and

1032
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:34.860
sort of challenging him.

1033
00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:37.980
And again, it's this promise of what could have been if

1034
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:39.840
Christopher Eccleston had stuck around longer.

1035
00:51:39.900 --> 00:51:43.380
It's deliberately setting up that there might be a bit of tension

1036
00:51:43.380 --> 00:51:47.219
between these two, 4 roses affections and 4 leadership.

1037
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.139
You know where that was also going to go.

1038
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:51.119
The red bicycle.

1039
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.579
Red bicycle when you were 12.

1040
00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:57.840
The next story was going to look at how the doctor had been

1041
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:01.139
manipulating Rose's timeline to make the perfect companion.

1042
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.480
This was Paul Abbott's rejected script.

1043
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:08.460
So Paul Abbott, who created Shameless, who was a TV writer in the

1044
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:13.320
UK, sort of comparable to RTD, his sort of influence and stuff, and

1045
00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.260
they tried to get Paul Abbott to write for the show, but it didn't

1046
00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:17.039
pan out.

1047
00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:19.619
But he was such a fan of cartmole.

1048
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:20.639
Yes.

1049
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:22.860
I'm glad they didn't.

1050
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:24.300
It was just a bit too silver.

1051
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:25.440
Yes, really.

1052
00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:25.920
Yeah.

1053
00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:29.099
Or what ends up happening with the Moffatt characters who, you

1054
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:31.500
know, they're all women that the doctor has met when they were

1055
00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:35.039
small children. somewhat creepy way.

1056
00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:39.000
In a Elon Muskie sort of way.

1057
00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:40.199
Yeah, yeah.

1058
00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:42.539
And the dilemma of that story was going to be, does Jack tell

1059
00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:43.019
Rose?

1060
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:47.579
And I'm really glad they didn't do that as well because it just

1061
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:53.519
feels wrong for the Eccleston Dr. and Rose relationship in that

1062
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:57.119
Eccleston is a Doctor Who's learning to be with other people

1063
00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:57.599
again.

1064
00:52:57.659 --> 00:53:01.559
And I think that if they had introduced a storyline where he's

1065
00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:05.820
manipulating his best friend into what he wants, that is an evil

1066
00:53:05.820 --> 00:53:06.119
action.

1067
00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:11.219
Well, it's that's a more sort of Moffat thing in RTD's world.

1068
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.179
The companions are people that we like and identify with people

1069
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:19.139
who we hope, you know, leave the doctor better.

1070
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:21.599
The trust in happenstance and coincidence.

1071
00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:24.119
Actually, RTD has faith in the human condition.

1072
00:53:24.179 --> 00:53:25.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1073
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:27.780
Whereas the Moffatt characters tend to be much more science

1074
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:32.099
fiction-y and much more high concept, much more duty comicky.

1075
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:34.199
Well, a little alienating, I think, for that reason.

1076
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:37.440
They're like kind of the DC universe where everyone's a bit flat

1077
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.840
and gray and with lots of dark shadows.

1078
00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:42.059
Yeah, it's not really where I want to be going.

1079
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:43.320
But luckily, that hasn't happened.

1080
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:55.079
All right, so it's part two, which means that it's time for picks

1081
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:55.860
of the week.

1082
00:53:55.980 --> 00:53:56.699
Hurra.

1083
00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:59.280
So my pick of the week.

1084
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:02.820
It is on YouTube, but it's an audio adventure.

1085
00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:07.800
It's called Doctor Who, the Ninth Doctor Adventures Cold Open.

1086
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:12.780
And it's a fan-made production with a very, very good Christopher

1087
00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:13.800
Eccleston impersonator.

1088
00:54:13.860 --> 00:54:15.179
That's Jodie Whitaker.

1089
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:15.780
Yes.

1090
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:20.219
And the idea is it happens just before the 1st series.

1091
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:24.599
They've only released one episode so far called Cold Open, as I

1092
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:24.780
say.

1093
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:26.219
It's 33 minutes long.

1094
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:32.039
And for me, it kind of feels like the audio visuals plays, which I

1095
00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:35.280
know I've mentioned before, which were the forerunner to the big

1096
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.059
finish plays.

1097
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:37.679
It's very professionally done.

1098
00:54:37.739 --> 00:54:40.800
It's quite a simple story.

1099
00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:42.719
It's only got a few characters.

1100
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.800
But as I say, the Eccleston is very good and I highly recommend

1101
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:47.159
it.

1102
00:54:47.219 --> 00:54:48.539
So we'll include a link for that on the website.

1103
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:52.440
Always assuming BBC Enterprises hasn't made them take it down.

1104
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:54.000
Oh, it's been up for 4 months.

1105
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:54.780
It's still there.

1106
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:55.920
I can see it here on my screen.

1107
00:54:55.980 --> 00:54:58.920
So we're okay for now. listen to that right now.

1108
00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:01.739
Well, my thing's always antecedents.

1109
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:03.480
So I just throw a few at us.

1110
00:55:03.539 --> 00:55:07.980
I didn't mention Gri Garson last week in Mrs. Miniver, which is

1111
00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:13.800
William Wyler's lovely 1942 piece on how the Brits were coping

1112
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:16.860
with the Blitzes, but it's set in Cornwall in Judy Cornwall.

1113
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:23.820
And it's the film about which Churchill said that was worth more

1114
00:55:23.820 --> 00:55:26.219
to us than 100 warships.

1115
00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:30.900
He cites this film as the one that brought the Yanks into the war

1116
00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:32.519
as much as anything else.

1117
00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:33.719
Really, isn't that good?

1118
00:55:33.780 --> 00:55:34.619
Well it's Greek arson.

1119
00:55:34.679 --> 00:55:35.880
And it's Morgan Milo.

1120
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.019
Well, there's some other ones.

1121
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:37.739
There are better films.

1122
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.519
There's, um, fires were started, put that light out.

1123
00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:43.559
Yes, it's about the AFS.

1124
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.980
Oh, the Amateur Boys, but he uses the real boys, and there's some

1125
00:55:46.980 --> 00:55:49.920
moments in this at the bomb site that really reminded me of that

1126
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:50.159
film.

1127
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:52.860
So that's Humphrey Jennings from 1943.

1128
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:57.840
Um, There's Next of King, Thorold Dickinson, didn't they have

1129
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.599
lovely names, just then, which was all about Kayla's talk costing

1130
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:00.960
lives.

1131
00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:01.920
But my favourite.

1132
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:07.079
It's called Their Finest, and it came out only 2 years ago, 2016

1133
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:11.940
and the director was Lonnie Scherfig, and it stars the podcast's

1134
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:12.960
own Gemma Atherton.

1135
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:13.860
Did you see it?

1136
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:19.079
It's about a girl during the war who is sort of on her own and we

1137
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:21.780
don't know exactly why she's on her own or how she's got to be

1138
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:25.079
where she is, but she's terribly clever and competent and she ends

1139
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:26.280
up writing.

1140
00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:30.239
Propaganda or writing the scripts, but she also ends up working

1141
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:32.760
within, anyway, I won't spoil it for you.

1142
00:56:32.820 --> 00:56:37.019
It's a really lovely piece and even though it comes after this.

1143
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:39.480
I'm thinking, oh, come on, you.

1144
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:42.300
I mean, we can't just cite this show as being an influence on

1145
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:43.019
later films.

1146
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:45.420
However, there's some lovely little tonal moments.

1147
00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:46.260
It did really well.

1148
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:47.219
I think I got a BAFTA.

1149
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.760
So yes, fresh from her bond fingering podcast.

1150
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:55.199
I just remembered there's something else I wanted to pick of the

1151
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:56.880
week for this story and that is Atta girl.

1152
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:58.199
Oh yes.

1153
00:56:58.260 --> 00:56:58.800
Yes.

1154
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.059
Yeah, I know.

1155
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:01.320
How could we not?

1156
00:57:01.380 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah.

1157
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:02.880
What were we thinking?

1158
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:05.400
So it's one of the big finish originals.

1159
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:10.380
They come up with 7 original ideas, like not based on any other TV

1160
00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:11.519
show or what have you?

1161
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:15.539
So the original concept comes from Louise Jameson, and it's based

1162
00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:18.059
on the woman's air transport auxiliary.

1163
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:20.639
So it was the women who were moving planes where they needed to be

1164
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:23.820
in the war, flying without radios.

1165
00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:27.599
So they would be shot at by their own people.

1166
00:57:27.659 --> 00:57:29.820
So they had to fly under a certain altitude.

1167
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:33.780
So the British army would know, oh, that's probably an ATA girl.

1168
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:38.519
I think it's something like something between one or 3 and 10 of

1169
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:43.559
them died while flying, crashes got shot down, et cetera, et

1170
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:43.980
cetera.

1171
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:50.280
It's for one hour plays, absolutely beautiful and allergic and

1172
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:54.119
heartbreaking, all directed by Louise Jameson, all written by

1173
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:58.440
women such as Helen Goldwin and Jane Slaven, who have done big

1174
00:57:58.440 --> 00:57:59.340
finish for years.

1175
00:57:59.579 --> 00:58:05.519
Yes, and I think currently available for $25 or $30 on download.

1176
00:58:05.579 --> 00:58:06.780
They may do more.

1177
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:07.920
It is labelled as series one.

1178
00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:09.780
So there may be more tales.

1179
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:11.280
It's a really cracking.

1180
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:12.360
Yeah, yeah.

1181
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:16.139
What is so amazing about it is they keep the sound design and

1182
00:58:16.139 --> 00:58:19.860
music to such a minimum to try and emulate the style of an old war

1183
00:58:19.860 --> 00:58:20.460
movie.

1184
00:58:20.460 --> 00:58:26.099
And there are men in the plays, but it's mostly the stories of

1185
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:26.699
these women.

1186
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:30.300
Not exactly based on true stories, but based on things that

1187
00:58:30.300 --> 00:58:30.900
happened.

1188
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:36.059
And I think Louise actually said there are 2 characters in it who

1189
00:58:36.059 --> 00:58:36.960
really existed.

1190
00:58:37.019 --> 00:58:40.320
And, you know, we've tried to be as loyal to them, but most of

1191
00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:41.820
them, we've we've made up.

1192
00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:46.440
We've put together real people, but it's kind of like the things

1193
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:47.159
we're talking about.

1194
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:49.199
All of these things happen to someone.

1195
00:58:49.260 --> 00:58:53.280
Yeah, continuing the sort of very the very strong Nancy in this

1196
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:53.579
story.

1197
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.260
Go listen to Atagirl.

1198
00:58:55.619 --> 00:58:58.980
Oh, well, I feel like mine's going to be a little bit of a

1199
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:00.059
letdown.

1200
00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:02.219
Last time we had pics of the week, my peak of the week was

1201
00:59:02.219 --> 00:59:04.199
television because...

1202
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:05.699
Give it a try.

1203
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.400
It's really good. recommend it.

1204
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:12.239
We've spent a lot of time covering the wilderness years by not

1205
00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:14.519
putting out an episode of the podcast for several months.

1206
00:59:15.059 --> 00:59:20.579
And while that happened, of course, for new Target books came out

1207
00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:22.679
all of which you've probably read by now.

1208
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:27.480
But given that we spent a lot of time expressing what we're

1209
00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:30.719
probably fairly minor criticisms of Stephen Moffatt, his

1210
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:35.639
novelisation of the day of the doctor is everything that you would

1211
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:36.480
expect it to be.

1212
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:41.699
It's smug and it's sort of complicated, but it is so wonderfully

1213
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:46.739
funny and so terrifically humane and so tremendously well done

1214
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:48.659
that it's definitely worth a read.

1215
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:51.179
So I think all 4 of them are great.

1216
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:56.639
The 2 of them that are set in series one and 2 are also available

1217
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.159
as audiobooks read by Camil Kaduri.

1218
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:03.000
And, you know, definitely worth a listen, but I would really

1219
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:07.199
strongly recommend the day of the doctor. which is probably the

1220
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:12.239
sort of the last Doctor Whoey thing that we'll get from Offett for

1221
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:12.480
a while.

1222
01:00:36.539 --> 01:00:39.840
Well, dear, sir, we've saved 1940s London, so we'll be off to

1223
01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:41.699
threatened Carterville, 2006.

1224
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:43.440
Like it hasn't got it coming.

1225
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:47.219
And we'll be catching up with some old friends on the way.

1226
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:49.679
We'll see you next week for Boomtown.

1227
01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:53.639
In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com

1228
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:57.360
flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE

1229
01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:58.260
podcast on Twitter.

1230
01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:02.039
And if you would like us to spend the evening with you sitting on

1231
01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:05.400
the couch watching a Bond film, why not grab one of our James Bond

1232
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.739
commentary podcast over on Bondfinger?

1233
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:11.159
That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts

1234
01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:13.679
and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

1235
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:18.719
Can I just say, Moonraker is really good, but probably don't

1236
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:20.039
listen to it while you're drinking anything.

1237
01:01:20.099 --> 01:01:23.460
Yeah, drink something beforehand because, yeah, you don't want to

1238
01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:25.320
have a mouthful of liquid when we get to the space station.

1239
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:28.559
How many times have I heard people say that?

1240
01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:29.820
Gravity.

1241
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.039
Until next time, may you find to your surprise and delight that

1242
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.099
you have one more leg than you actually thought you had.

1243
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:39.780
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1244
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:41.099
I love it when that happens.

1245
01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:43.619
Yes, no referencing Rolf Harris, couldn't I?

1246
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:50.159
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley

1247
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:51.480
Brendan, Jones, and Richard Stone.

1248
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:54.539
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1249
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:55.260
Alberg.

1250
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:59.880
This episode, Sofa of Extreme Comfort, was recorded on the 22nd of

1251
01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:03.179
July 2018, and released on the 29th of October.

1252
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:07.679
And of course, you can hear more of this sort of nonsense on Jody

1253
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:10.920
interterror. a Doctor Who flash cast in which we chat about each

1254
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:14.820
new episode of Doctor Who series 11 near hours after it airs.

1255
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:19.079
That's Jody Intetera.com and Jody Intetera on Apple Podcasts.

1256
01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:23.699
Should we just talk about the final scene with Jack?

1257
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:25.079
Yes.

1258
01:02:25.139 --> 01:02:27.179
I've got nothing to say.

1259
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.460
Let's try that again.

1260
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:34.320
So let's just talk about, oh, do we have anything to talk about

1261
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:35.400
the ending or not?

1262
01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:38.280
I need to think again.

1263
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:40.739
So remember, he's like talking to his computer and ordering a

1264
01:02:40.739 --> 01:02:44.639
martini and talking about waking up with his with his

1265
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.480
executioners.

1266
01:02:45.539 --> 01:02:46.679
Lovely couple stayed in touch.

1267
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:49.679
It's when you realise that Jonathan Frakes could have easily done

1268
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:51.480
the entire piece.

1269
01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:53.880
With a beard. with a beard.

1270
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.699
You would have been able to sit in chairs, though, the way that

1271
01:02:56.699 --> 01:02:57.300
Jack does.

1272
01:02:57.360 --> 01:02:58.199
No, this is true.

1273
01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:06.300
I think at the time I knew that Jack was going to become a

1274
01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:06.900
regular...