WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:39:11

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast Tired of all this talk about Daleks

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and just wanting to know where to collect our prize money from.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm James and I'm elegantly bronzed for this episode.

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Well, we've spent an exhausting week trapped on that spaceship

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surrounded by megabytes of CGI pedal bins.

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Still, I imagine the doctor will be along to rescue us any 2nd

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now.

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So while we're waiting, let's talk about the series one finale, the

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Parting of the Waves.

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How does this episode begin?

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They do the reprise, and it cuts straight into the next...

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Into the opening credits?

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No, no, no, into the next scene.

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So it literally just flows as if it's the one scene.

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Like they just cut that scene in half.

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My 1st lot of notes here, say the missiles launched at the TARDIS

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and there's an impossible explosion a la survival and the doctor

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and motorbikes, but that's not the 1st shot, is it?

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Yeah, but we don't actually see the doctor sort of get into the

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TARDIS and set the coordinates for anything or anything like

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that.

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We're on the ship, aren't we?

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And Rose is being told to predict the doctor's movements and she

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refuses to do it.

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And then she says, oh, you know, the TARDIS has no defences if you

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fire a missile at it, he'll die.

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And then they say you have predicted correctly.

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The Daleks actually do great dialogue when Russell is writing.

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You know, we saw it with Sherman as well, but this is the 1st kind

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of big giant Dalek story that has more the one Dalek and has good

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fun, excellent dialogue.

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You don't need Davros along to do that.

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And that's exactly what Russell wanted, but he loved those century

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21 backpage strips and they were pithy and ironic one-liners.

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There was wit in those as well.

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The dog's very boring when written by Terry Nation.

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I think it went spread out.

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But they have great little moments.

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I think they're funny in the chase.

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Yeah.

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Especially that one digging itself out of the sand.

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There might be the fact that, you know, a lot of terry nation

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starlic stuff is in the mid 60s.

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So it's a different feel to television.

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So I can understand where you're coming from with that.

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But the Daleks themselves here, up until the emperor is

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introduced.

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Have their own little personalities.

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They're willing to converse, they're willing to move back with

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their eye stalks and back away from the doctor and all that sort

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of thing.

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So it's nice to see them have some sort of characteristics other

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than just be Davros's army.

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I think they're super interesting here too.

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Russell has occasionally sort of had digs at religion.

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You know, religion was one of the weapons that was forbidden on

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platform one in the end of the world.

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And here the Daleks use all of this explicitly religious language

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about blasphemy.

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It's the biggest thing about this story and the thing I wanted to

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bang on about because it really does feel like it's the Hillsong

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Church or whatever you have in the UK.

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But it's the Daleks are Pentecostals.

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I had originally thought that given that this is a post 911 series

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of Doctor Who, that maybe we were sort of fundamentalist

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terrorists.

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But watching it this time, all I could get was that they were kind

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of conservative, fundamentalist Christians.

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Super far-right Bush family acolytes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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They would have voted for Trump in 2016.

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Totally Starlakes.

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The big killer lion is the line about how they hate their own

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flesh.

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They hate their humanity.

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They've been made from human beings and they hate the fact that

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they're human and subject to sort of human frailty.

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There's also that incredibly cheeky line, which I think has been

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observed heaps of times before.

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When Rose says the Daleks are half human and the Daleks respond

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with that is blasphemy, which is exactly what Gallifrey Base said

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I think, when the doctor said he was half human in the TV movie.

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Of course, that's what he's lap shading.

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Of course it is.

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Those lines around there are really, really good.

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And the filleting line.

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Yeah.

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Oh, sifted and filleted.

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It's even the words that are used.

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The way it's enunciated.

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Yeah, it's very visceral.

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Well, it's poetry.

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I mean, he's chosen those words, not just for their meaning, but

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also for their sound, I think.

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It's very well written.

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And also words that you wouldn't usually hear from a dalek.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Dalek language is usually quite boring.

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Seek location extermination.

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Yes, well, scientific, factual.

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It's not descriptive.

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It's not poetic like you say.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, so this is an amazing kind of reconception of the Daleks

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because we've talked about them being communists before and about

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being Nazis.

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We've had them as...

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Amway salesman, consumerists and so on.

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And now they're the religious.

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And I think that when Russell introduces old monsters to his new

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series. does try and find something new to say about them.

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He certainly does.

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And it's always about the abuse and misuse of modern technology.

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The ease and fun and the way it was meant to bring us all together

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and all that we've allowed it to do in the way that we debase the

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fundament of anything that we get a hold of, say Big Brother or

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whatever is meant to, you know, be familial and bring people

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together and it's actually just become the Hunger Games. defeated.

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The side men next series.

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Yeah, more of that next year.

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What do we think about the emperor?

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Richard has opinions?

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think I'm okay with it.

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Well, I think he's meant to be the US, isn't he?

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He's really meant to be cultural imperialism.

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George W.

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Bush.

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James?

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I prefer the original.

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What, the white pepper pot?

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The lady emperor.

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The black and white Empradale from Evil of the Daleks.

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Because it looks so different.

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This one just looks fat.

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Though, it is, it is, it is, it is a Mike Tucker prop.

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I think it's amazing.

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It's beautiful.

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And is huge.

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Like for a prop.

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How big was it?

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It's a large scale miniature.

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It's about 6 feet tall.

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I guess when I was watching this, and looking at that, on the Blu

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ray, all the Daleks around it, not just the ones floating in the

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air, but in the background doing little things, I never realised

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how many different ones there were.

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That's sort of what drew my attention.

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It's the kind of thing that Terry Nation would always have wanted

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to do.

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And he tries to do it in planet of the Daleks and they're reduced

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to using the little toy Daleks.

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Yeah.

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And it's 10,000 Daleks astonishingly.

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So this is a mere half 1000000 of them, but they really give that

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impression.

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It's amazing.

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It is like finally having the entire toy box to play with.

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The doctor materialises around rose and a dalek.

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And a dalek.

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That's the 1st time a dalek has ever been in the tartis.

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I don't think we've ever materialised around anyone before.

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Well, that was my point.

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I was going, is this the 1st time?

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Yeah.

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It's happened again a bunch of times now, I think.

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I think they've gone there again, but that is the 1st time.

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And that's great.

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You know, the doctor does something amazing.

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I think it's in TV comic.

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We need to we need to ask Gary Russell, friend of the podcast.

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I'm pretty sure it's happened in one of the comics in the 70s.

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Yeah, the televisual antecedent of that is gobless.

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But Time Monster.

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Oh, yeah, Lagopolis.

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Because Time Monce is the funniest Doctor Who episode...

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Materialising around Tartises.

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Yeah, that's the closest we've ever got.

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Yeah.

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Fan, fan, fan.

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Bang, bang, bang.

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But it's good.

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You know, the doctor does something very clever, something that no

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one who's written for the show before has ever thought of.

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So he's bringing his A game to this rescue, I think.

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And his massive comic back catalogue.

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Yes.

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I really like Eckles in this one.

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He does gravitas really beautifully and all the gurning and all

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the rest of it.

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It's really nicely referenced in this because you can see, you

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were actually just putting on a mask.

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It always felt a bit fake and we make lots of jokes.

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I'm under Ionucci spent an entire year making cracks about

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Christopher Eccleston's gurning on every radio show he was on.

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The guy who wrote the thick of it and, you know, in the loop and

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all the rest, um, and Veep.

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So, you know, he's, but he, a massive Dr. Ivan was always joking.

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And that was the, the parlance of the criticism at the time was

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that, you know, he really isn't comfortable being humourous and

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doing work for children.

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No, no, no, you all missed the and you can see it here.

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That is his frailty and that is his mask because underneath is

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just abject horror at what he's seen and utter defeat and the

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feebleness that he feels of just trying to be optimistic, faking

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it.

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Yeah.

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And you can see that he admits it here.

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And there are all these moments.

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We're not at the end yet, but all these little moments that

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presage the end moments for Eccleston, where you see, oh, I can

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really see where you've been going with this, and it's very

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impressive.

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He goes straight from giving them noul point, like a Eurovision

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charge.

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And then when he gets back into the Tartar, there's that

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incredible scene where he's resting his head against the door and

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listening to the Daleks say exterminate and firing at the TARDIS

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and just not saying anything and no one comments on it.

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But it is exactly what you said.

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It's a mask, all that discomfort that he's felt with the levity

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and stuff all along, is really deliberately in service of the

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character.

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It's a great point.

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Like, I mean, that mask is there, obviously, with the whole Delta

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Wave project and giving people hope, whether it be Linda or Jack

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or Rose and then sending her away and you see that mask slip.

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Because that is what the doctor does that, like, he brings people

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hope.

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Yeah.

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And that's not been foregrounded so much in the original series.

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No, he kind of sidestepped it and Genesis of the Daleks is a good

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one for that, isn't it?

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But yes, he seemed to sort of feel that sacrifice is something

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people have to make, but he never wanted to face it head on.

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So they get back to the station, and they have to come up with a

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plan to save Earth and to save the people on the station.

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Linda is there and our male and female controllers or

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programmers.

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It's very interesting to watch the doctor's interactions with

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Linda, how perhaps awkward they are with Rose looking on, and you

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also see Roses, a bit of jealousy there, which comes up again

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later in the series with Martha.

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Like it's, I just found that really intriguing just to see Billy's

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performance throughout those sequences.

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It's really rough, isn't it?

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The doctor says you could come with me, I think maybe last episode

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but the offer is kind of repeated only in front of Rose and when

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she goes off to sort of monitor her station.

254
00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:06.120
She actually touches the TARDIS a bit proprietorily as she goes

255
00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.399
past us and Rose sees it.

256
00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:14.279
And Rose is kind of a bit sort of self-centred and self-absorbed, I

257
00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:17.460
think, as a person and she only gets worse next year.

258
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:18.840
Look how she treats Mickey.

259
00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:21.179
Message you, no, there's nothing here for me.

260
00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:22.320
And Mickey says, what?

261
00:12:22.379 --> 00:12:22.860
Nothing?

262
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:23.820
No, nothing.

263
00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:28.259
It's the most callous, cold moment of the whole season for me.

264
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.659
He stands there with a broken heart.

265
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.360
You watched Boomtown this morning.

266
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.919
Yeah, but...

267
00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:36.299
We get it again in this one.

268
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:37.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

269
00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:39.000
Just a hammer at home, you sucker.

270
00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:45.659
But like the moment in this episode where she treats him like that

271
00:12:45.659 --> 00:12:53.039
and then he and her mother still go out of their way to help her

272
00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:54.960
get back to the future to save the doctor.

273
00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:58.500
It shows the quality of those characters.

274
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:00.840
Let's talk about that bit.

275
00:13:00.899 --> 00:13:04.919
Like, the Dr. Tricks rose into getting into the TARDIS so that she

276
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:10.500
can escape and Murray Gold conspires with the doctor as well

277
00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:13.500
because the doctor does this sort of, oh, I've suddenly cracked it

278
00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:17.879
and Murray goes in, like tries to sell that moment to ask as well

279
00:13:17.940 --> 00:13:19.259
swell of music.

280
00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.860
And then, as Richard said, before, the mask drops once she's

281
00:13:22.860 --> 00:13:28.379
safely in the TARDIS because he never intends to see her again, and

282
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:29.700
he sends her back home.

283
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:33.299
And there's that breathtaking moment where the doctor's ghost

284
00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:36.299
speaks to her in the Tartar saying he's dead.

285
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.620
That just gives me chills every single time that speech happens.

286
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:42.899
I'm still vivid in my memory.

287
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.200
The moment that goes turns to her.

288
00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.220
Yeah, he turns to camera, all the interference patterns are gone.

289
00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:54.360
It's just Christopher Eccleston and the voice treatment changes as

290
00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:54.539
well.

291
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:56.279
Like it suddenly becomes real.

292
00:13:56.340 --> 00:14:00.240
It's so incredibly beautiful and it's really sold.

293
00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:02.940
And I think, you know, for a little while, even though I've

294
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.539
watched this 100s and 100s of times because it is, as I said

295
00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:09.419
before, possibly my favourite Doctor Who story.

296
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.019
For a moment, I thought, oh, they're never going to see one

297
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:13.620
another again.

298
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:17.279
You know, that's really what's being said at that moment.

299
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:18.659
Have a good life.

300
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:19.620
Have a good life.

301
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:20.820
Do that for me.

302
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:22.799
Have a fantastic life.

303
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:24.059
So beautiful.

304
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.080
Chill.

305
00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:25.860
Yeah, yeah.

306
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:26.460
Yeah.

307
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:31.259
And then, of course, we just cut to those chickens revolving in

308
00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:36.000
that revolting rotisserie thing in the restaurant where they're

309
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:36.539
eating chick.

310
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:37.799
I love.

311
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.700
I'm just thinking, is that a predicate of Eccles's future career?

312
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.440
No, he's told them all to knobble.

313
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.139
I think Russell was being a complete bitch.

314
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.259
I just laugh every time.

315
00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:50.879
Oh, they've gone off market.

316
00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.419
Yeah, they do little tubs of...

317
00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:55.559
They tastes kind of clinical.

318
00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:58.019
So like the pizza shop.

319
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.720
You know, have you seen the new pizza shop in whatever road?

320
00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:01.740
Oh what does it have?

321
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:02.639
Old pizza.

322
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:07.259
You know, like it is the most banal conversation ever conducted as

323
00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.120
part of a television program.

324
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:14.399
And Rose has just left, you know, the year 200,000 where Daleks

325
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:15.539
are destroying the world.

326
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:18.419
And they're just talking absolute nonsense.

327
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.639
And that speech, that thing is wonderful.

328
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:24.600
And she's trying the whole time not to seem arrogant.

329
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:25.919
That's a really good point.

330
00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:31.440
Because she is like that to Mickey later on, but at this point, her

331
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:32.279
mask hasn't dropped.

332
00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:33.600
Yeah.

333
00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:37.919
I mean, you talk about Richard, that horrible speech that inspires

334
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.980
Mickey to kind of just say, all right, I'm going to help her go.

335
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:47.519
And, of course, the speech that she gives to Jackie is about her

336
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.200
father from Father's Day.

337
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:50.580
Was that little girl?

338
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.100
Oh, yeah, it's wonderful.

339
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.139
But it's also incredibly cruel.

340
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:59.220
And it's, it's, the character of Rose pushing against the people

341
00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:04.980
that she loves because they ground her in, in the normal, everyday

342
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:08.519
world and she could be safe and happy there.

343
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:09.299
Yeah.

344
00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:12.960
And she she needs to not be.

345
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:18.240
She needs to alienate them so that she can get back to what she

346
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:18.480
wants.

347
00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:19.440
Well, yes.

348
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:22.860
Yeah, she's, she's, like you say, Nathan, incredibly selfish

349
00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:23.340
character.

350
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.759
She's super emotionally manipulative and like she's rubbing

351
00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:31.019
Jackie's husband's death, you know, rubbing it in her face. in

352
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.100
order to get her to go away.

353
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:33.179
Is she?

354
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.080
Well, I think what's happening here is that Rose thinks that

355
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:41.399
Jackie and Mickey are dragging her back, that they're holding her

356
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.460
back, and the reason that she had such a dull life.

357
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:49.860
The reason that she nearly decided not to go with a doctor was...

358
00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:51.840
Yeah, Mickey and Jackie need me.

359
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:53.039
I'm the grown-up here.

360
00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:56.820
I'm, you know, doing all the emotional labour, but she's wrong

361
00:16:56.820 --> 00:17:01.740
because the 2 of them are the people who get together and enable

362
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:03.299
her to resume that life.

363
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:04.140
Yes.

364
00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:10.259
And I think that they come off just amazingly great in this and

365
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:11.460
Mickey particularly.

366
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.299
But Jackie is wonderful when she comes back with that big jet, big

367
00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:20.279
yellow truck. the love they have for her And they're willing to

368
00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:25.200
put aside whatever manipulation or feelings to give her what she

369
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:29.700
wants. is just incredibly moving and incredible.

370
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.299
And Jackie with that truck and, you know, you've got it for 2

371
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:35.339
hours, like Regrigo or whatever.

372
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.960
And Mickey being able to be there in his little mini trying to get

373
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.339
the heart of the TARDIS open.

374
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:47.819
It just shows what a character is he is and how he has grown as a

375
00:17:47.819 --> 00:17:48.119
character.

376
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.480
This is a defining moment, a real pivoting turning point in that

377
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:51.720
character.

378
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:56.819
And the timing of it as well is he's like, we need something

379
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.259
stronger than my little mini.

380
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.759
Something like this.

381
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:06.420
I think too, that it is amazing that in a story set in the year

382
00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:13.559
200,000 that the people who end up saving the world, in fact, they

383
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.059
don't save the world and we'll get to that.

384
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.539
But the people who end up saving the doctor are just ordinary

385
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:22.140
people on earth in the present day.

386
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.859
And Russell, you know, has talked about Planet Zog, we've

387
00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:27.599
referenced it many times before.

388
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.359
That's not what he's interested in.

389
00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:31.980
He's interested in people.

390
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.660
And for that reason, all of his other season finales are set on

391
00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:41.640
earth in the present day, and a big sort of climactic apocalyptic

392
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.839
things happening to our world.

393
00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:48.240
Here he said it in the distant future, but it's still our main

394
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:49.259
characters.

395
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.640
It's still Jackie and Mickey who actually managed to save the

396
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:53.880
world.

397
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:55.440
And Rose.

398
00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:55.799
Yeah.

399
00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:58.920
Well, none of the other characters could save the world because

400
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:00.359
they all bloody die.

401
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:04.740
Just all keep dying, don't you?

402
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:08.640
They literally the only people who don't die in this episode.

403
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:09.539
Jack.

404
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.660
Well, no, Jack dies and the doctor dies.

405
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:14.099
He gets brought back to life.

406
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:18.900
But the only characters that don't die are Rose, Mickey and

407
00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:19.380
Jackie.

408
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.900
So our present day contemporaries.

409
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.640
Yeah, they are the heart of the show.

410
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:28.920
It's actually, I think this is the 1st time since Horror Fang Rock

411
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:30.779
the entire guest cast is killed off.

412
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:37.200
So, unfortunately, Linda, with a Y is in for the killing zone.

413
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.200
I think that's incredible.

414
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:43.920
When the dalek comes up the window and just the lights flash and

415
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.859
you know that they're saying exterminate because of the rhythm

416
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.599
with which the lights flash.

417
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.259
It's a great misdirection too for classic fans in that, you know

418
00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:55.980
she's in that platform and you're expecting them to come through

419
00:19:55.980 --> 00:20:00.000
the door with a cutting device which we've seen numerous times in

420
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.980
the classic series and that's what's happening.

421
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.720
But then just that moment when you see it in her eye, the close-up

422
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:12.119
in her face, and then it's like, you're turning to behind her with

423
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.759
the glass, that is just, you just know that's the end.

424
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:19.319
There's also a line in there about the glass being...

425
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:20.640
It's exoglass or something.

426
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:25.079
Like, take a like a meteor to break through that or something.

427
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.460
He says it's protected against meteors.

428
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:27.180
That's what he says.

429
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:31.259
Yeah, and that sells the power of the Daleks.

430
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.319
They are so powerful that this thing that's supposed to withstand

431
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.920
meteor strike is just shattered by them.

432
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.839
And that sort of plays into the conception of the Daleks and the

433
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.720
new series is being all powerful.

434
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:51.779
Yeah, completely invulnerable being.

435
00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:12.059
Besides Linda dying, we've then got Jack and the programmers and

436
00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:16.259
all the wannabe winner contestants or people staying on the

437
00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:23.339
station down on level 0, and it's really satisfying to see the

438
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:26.819
winner of the weakest link, get exterminated.

439
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:32.400
We talked about this on a previous episode that Russell writes

440
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.140
stories that are very vertical.

441
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.680
You know, there's always lifts in them and he makes it very clear

442
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.880
what the Daleks are doing.

443
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.880
And their only reason to go down there.

444
00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:43.500
They don't need to go down there.

445
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:47.339
Remember they come in at floor 446 or whatever it is and they're

446
00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:48.359
going, they're going to go up.

447
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:50.700
That's the bit that's protected by the extrapolator's force

448
00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:51.180
field.

449
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.299
But the only reason they go down is because there's a bunch of

450
00:21:54.299 --> 00:21:55.319
people there that they can kill.

451
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:57.900
There's no strategic reason for it at all.

452
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:02.519
Just to show how evil they are. and just before she dies, Linda

453
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.380
gets to hear that happening.

454
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.859
And it's in that scene and she is so effective.

455
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.039
Like she's so broken up by it.

456
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:14.700
And I think too, in the scene just before she dies, you can see

457
00:22:14.700 --> 00:22:16.799
her realising that she's about to die.

458
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.299
It's so well done.

459
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.900
She's really fantastic. really is.

460
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:22.500
Yeah.

461
00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.859
I shed no tears for Roderick's death at all.

462
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.019
You astound me.

463
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:33.000
He's all the bad bosses and the weak people we've always known, and

464
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.059
that's the whole point of his moment or his arc, flat though it is

465
00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:41.819
is to show us how people who don't have, anyway, in touch with the

466
00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:43.259
humanity, you could say.

467
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.579
We've already said that the world that's created by last week's

468
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:48.720
episode is horrible.

469
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:52.799
And it's sort of told in a slightly comic way because we've got

470
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:57.240
all these sort of parodic versions of our favourite TV shows, but

471
00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.059
the world is horrifically appalling.

472
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.480
It's a terrible place and Roderick is the sort of person who wins

473
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.859
in that world, you know, and so he's an ultimate winner.

474
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:09.299
Yeah, he's the winner in that world.

475
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.759
And so... every corporate success story.

476
00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:12.539
Yeah, exactly.

477
00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.480
It's really interesting that the doctor's influence on Jack

478
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:20.220
inspires some of those people in that world to take a stand and to

479
00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:23.880
fight, the controllers, and also the girl who's the assistant

480
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:25.980
director on the weakest link.

481
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.619
Yeah, she's the floor manager, I think, is the name, the right

482
00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:29.039
character.

483
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:29.880
Okay.

484
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.980
But she's not credited.

485
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:33.059
Oh, isn't she?

486
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:33.900
She's really good.

487
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.500
Yeah, they appear to have accidentally not credited her because

488
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:41.640
she has a pretty main role in both his episodes, but she doesn't

489
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:42.480
appear in the credit six.

490
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:46.680
I love that scene where she is firing bullets at the Daleks and

491
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.740
they don't work, they're doing sort of bullet time and she says

492
00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:50.460
you lied to me.

493
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.559
Did you notice what the bullets were on?

494
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:56.279
It's a revelation of the Daleks?

495
00:23:56.339 --> 00:24:00.299
Their bastic bullets invented by Eric Seward himself.

496
00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:05.819
Or the 1985 classic Revelation of the Diaries.

497
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.200
Yeah, Orsini uses them.

498
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:10.140
We see a Dalek get blown up by bastic bullets.

499
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.160
Not anymore.

500
00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:12.240
Really?

501
00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:13.319
Yeah, yeah.

502
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:14.819
How do I miss these things?

503
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:16.619
How am I missing these things?

504
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.240
Of course, the Delta Wave, it was the reference to Kinder.

505
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:23.579
When I blanked that out of my mind.

506
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.220
What did that do to Nissa's brain?

507
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:27.059
Yeah, yeah.

508
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:27.599
Fried it.

509
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:31.079
Exposed it to a huge amount of ancestine energy.

510
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:35.460
And save gin to your paycheque, probably.

511
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:36.599
That's it.

512
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:39.720
So the program has died.

513
00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:43.799
There's a nice moment between the ongoing little, will they go on

514
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:47.940
a date dialogue between the male and female programmer, which I

515
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:49.980
quite like through out both episodes?

516
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:50.279
Yeah.

517
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.980
Just to give them a bit of character and a bit of humour in the

518
00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:54.779
face of annihilation, I guess.

519
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:58.740
And also to make her death more horrifying because there's someone

520
00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:02.940
who to mourn for, and in fact, their little exchange, which is

521
00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:04.619
super trope aware, isn't it?

522
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.240
Like, perhaps I should ask you.

523
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:07.380
Is that the title for this episode?

524
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.579
That's right.

525
00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:10.140
Perhaps I should ask you out.

526
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.420
You know, well, then tough.

527
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:15.299
I'm not going to go out with you and then they smile at each other

528
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:16.259
and she winks.

529
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:20.640
Like it's a very sweet, very quickly sweet thing.

530
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.220
And she was someone, remember, the doctor yelled at her last

531
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:23.700
episode.

532
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:27.420
One of my favourite lines last episode is where the doctor

533
00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:31.380
criticises the staff and she says, well, they're just doing their

534
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:35.039
jobs and he says, well, with that sentence, you've just lost the

535
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.660
right even to speak to me.

536
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:41.099
But she's humanised by then and her death's horrifying and so is

537
00:25:41.099 --> 00:25:42.000
the male controllers.

538
00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:43.859
It's almost fridging, isn't it?

539
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:47.579
She's horribly murdered and then it spurs him on to try and kill

540
00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:48.539
the Daleks and then he does as well.

541
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.660
Well, yeah, I mean, fridging is more about sort of long-term

542
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:52.079
emotion.

543
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:53.339
Very brief reaching.

544
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:54.299
A free change.

545
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.920
It's an escape.

546
00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:56.819
It's an ice tray.

547
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:57.660
Yeah, that's right.

548
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.720
Around this time is one of my favourite moments in the episode

549
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:07.440
which is when the Daleks enter floor 495.

550
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.279
Somebody says, what's on 495, and then they come in, and I

551
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.980
completely forgotten. and there's the Android taking on the

552
00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.640
Daleks.

553
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.220
I just love it when she tells them you are the weakest link and

554
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:20.819
you know, then the fact that she has to say, you are the weakest

555
00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:25.079
link before firing, gets her kick, well, gets her head blown off.

556
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:29.339
It is also just the incredible comedy world that was created in

557
00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:33.359
the beginning of Bad Wolf gets to have a little brief go at the

558
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.819
Daleks before we sort of forget about it forever.

559
00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:37.920
So now you've brought up Bad Wolf.

560
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:42.660
Obviously, in the playground on Earth, the bad wolf thing appears

561
00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:47.519
everywhere and suddenly it's a message that is sent to Rose.

562
00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:48.960
Is that what she says, a message.

563
00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:52.380
And so this is the 1st time that it sort of, well, actually, no

564
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:53.460
it's mentioned before this, isn't it?

565
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.700
Because the doctor has a conversation with the emperor Dalek.

566
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.599
It's one of those things like last week where the 2 different plot

567
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.680
strands are running in parallel and rose and the doctor both find

568
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:09.119
out that bad wolf isn't what they thought it was at sort of

569
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.799
roughly the same time in the episode.

570
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:15.059
I find it interesting because you've been led up to believe that

571
00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:17.880
it was something and now it suddenly changed.

572
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:19.140
What will it actually be?

573
00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:20.220
Yeah.

574
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:23.759
I think the bad wolf on the playground is incredibly cheap because

575
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.380
it's clearly just done with chalk.

576
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.539
I really like that she's whispering into so many little kiddies

577
00:27:30.539 --> 00:27:32.039
ears, go on, do it.

578
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:35.519
Come on. throughout eternity.

579
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:38.039
She's actually been fostering tagging.

580
00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:41.519
She's the cause of it all, right from the beginning.

581
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:45.119
Banksy is actually Rose.

582
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.680
So Jack is exterminated.

583
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:54.839
The doctor's going to be exterminated.

584
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:59.640
For the 1st and only time. that I was actually sorry to see it

585
00:27:59.640 --> 00:27:59.940
happen.

586
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:02.759
Every subsequent time.

587
00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:05.279
It's the same with Barrowman, I've said it before when we were

588
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.680
early, early on when we were doing the old podcast.

589
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:11.339
I only like him when he's in Doctor Who and the character only

590
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:13.319
works for me when he's in Doctor Who.

591
00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:15.720
Soon as he jumps into torture or anything else.

592
00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:16.319
It's awful.

593
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.319
It's just too much cheese, as Mickey would say.

594
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:23.640
It's crotch from Maggio performance levels.

595
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:27.599
But in this, it's really poignant and lovely and really touching.

596
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:31.319
And the fact that it's just done as any great Kurosawa film does

597
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:35.880
or the magnificent 7 or any great Western is this posited hero

598
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.599
this chief identifier for our morality just disappears in

599
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:40.319
slidestone.

600
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:42.960
There's nothing else to it because that's what meaningless death

601
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:43.319
is.

602
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:45.539
There's no ceremony, it's just wasteful.

603
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.500
Yeah, it's that sort of thing too, where they say exterminate and

604
00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:50.880
he says...

605
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.779
I kind of figured...

606
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.680
Yeah, kind of figured.

607
00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:55.140
Yes, and that's it, yeah. bang.

608
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.299
And then, of course, it turns out he was holding his breath all

609
00:28:57.299 --> 00:28:57.660
the time.

610
00:28:57.720 --> 00:28:58.559
The big cheat.

611
00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:01.619
Oh, that's something new I've discovered.

612
00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:04.680
That thing with the Daleks as well.

613
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:07.259
At this point, they're all pouring out of the spaceships and

614
00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:08.039
destroying the earth.

615
00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:10.680
In the most exciting way that we've only imagined that that should

616
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:12.420
have happened since we were 4 years of age.

617
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.420
We've been living this moment in our little heads all this time.

618
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.180
Although I have to say that most of the destruction of the earth

619
00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:21.180
is realised by some sort of fairly low-res graphics.

620
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.299
Australia melts. doesn't it?

621
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:25.440
Yeah, they're all gone.

622
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:27.960
We have new continents back then, but they all look the same as

623
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:28.859
the old continents.

624
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.279
Pacifica and Europa and stuff.

625
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:37.019
Is it like a 100 and something 1000 years, enough time for...

626
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.500
No, actually, maybe Maybe it's just political...

627
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.740
Yeah, the American Alliance and Pacifica and Australasia.

628
00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:45.900
They were going a bit all well with it, weren't they?

629
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:46.319
Yeah, yeah.

630
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:48.359
But that's what I was going to say about this story and why I

631
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.079
liked it so much because Russell again has picked up in Bad Wolf

632
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:53.579
and really cemented it with this one.

633
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:58.200
The chief alternatives in British writing of the 20th century

634
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.200
where you have industry, and it's always been dystopian because

635
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.960
the Brits really get how awful society can be.

636
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:06.299
They always know that what they've got is quite thin and actually

637
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:07.740
not that fun anyway.

638
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:09.059
So it's why I say, right?

639
00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:10.019
So, Brexit.

640
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:12.779
Exactly, which is why, well, yeah, I was going with it.

641
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:14.759
This is why they write such great dystopian fiction.

642
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.240
You've got all wall on one side saying it's militarised and

643
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.519
conditioned and very programmed and obvious.

644
00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:23.460
Then you've got Huxley saying, no, no, no, it's going to be

645
00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:25.799
exactly like that, but you won't feel it because you'll be

646
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:30.660
anaesthetized with sugary sweetness and affable vaporousness.

647
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.359
And that's exactly how we are living right now.

648
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:35.640
The Daleks of climate change.

649
00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:40.559
Well, Teresa May or whatever else you want to see it, but really

650
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.079
they're just about the threat that none of us are admitting.

651
00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:47.339
Well, remember last episode, like the whole planet's atmosphere

652
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:48.180
was destroyed.

653
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.440
You couldn't breathe outside.

654
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:51.839
There's smog storms and stuff like that.

655
00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:55.920
And I think that climate change was clearly sort of a living

656
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.740
concern in 2005.

657
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:02.759
But obviously since then, the people in charge of scene reason and

658
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:06.299
sorted it out once and for all 12 years later.

659
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.240
But yeah, I think the Dalek says climate change and having the

660
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:11.400
Daleks come in and just destroy the world.

661
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:14.579
And the doctor doesn't really do anything about it and we never

662
00:31:14.579 --> 00:31:17.819
kind of hear about it again.

663
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.920
In fact, the only reference to it is in Pudsy Cutaway, which is

664
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:28.500
the little red nose taste sketch that 1st introduces David Tennant

665
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:31.859
to the world, as the doctor, where he says that Captain Jack is

666
00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:36.599
back on trying to rebuild human society or something like that, as

667
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:39.420
if the doctor had locked him out of the Tartars, because he'd

668
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:41.819
fallen in love with a Scottish rebel of some kind.

669
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.420
Oh, of course, I thought it was that Rose reversed all the

670
00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:48.960
incidents that had happened and removed the dialects from this

671
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.480
moment of time and that none of that had ever happened.

672
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:53.099
Oh, okay, that's possible.

673
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.339
I always thought it was a sort of weird kind of loose end and a

674
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:58.200
sort of strangely downbeat ending.

675
00:31:58.259 --> 00:31:59.640
I thought the same as you.

676
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:02.940
I just thought that she brought him back because she had a

677
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:04.440
connection to him and could see that.

678
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.720
I didn't ever think that she'd.

679
00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:10.559
She got rid of the Daleks as they were then, not reversing

680
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:11.700
everything that happened on earth.

681
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.539
But then, as you say, if she does do that, which is resuscitation

682
00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:17.099
then they're all indestructible.

683
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:19.859
It's a planet of Captain Scarlet, so that doesn't happen.

684
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.599
We know that doesn't happen.

685
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.880
So yeah, what you're saying could be true.

686
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:25.259
So there is this point.

687
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.140
We know there are huge gaps in this Doctor Who universe of

688
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:28.619
Russell's.

689
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.680
So in the next time we see the earth, it's the year 5 billion

690
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:31.980
isn't it?

691
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:33.059
Yeah, yeah.

692
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.140
So I think that he doesn't worry about that and doesn't let that

693
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:39.839
stop him from telling the story that he wants to tell.

694
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:44.279
And I also think he's unleashing his inner cynic because, again

695
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.099
we've said this before on television, everything's lovely and

696
00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:47.819
marvellous.

697
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:53.220
And, you know, he couldn't be more jovial and likeable, but there

698
00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:57.059
is a kind of deep vein of cynicism that runs through his writing

699
00:32:57.059 --> 00:33:01.559
in a really kind of upsetting way at times.

700
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:05.880
And so here he smashes the earth up as a sort of background to

701
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.680
this story that he's trying to tell.

702
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:12.180
Yeah, it is bleak and it did seem like a loose end to me.

703
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:17.819
When I 1st watched this, uh, and he clearly thought it was a loose

704
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:22.799
end because he made that remark about it in Pudsy Cutaway, which I

705
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.000
am definitely calling it.

706
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.960
The official name for it was born again.

707
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:29.880
Yeah, that's crap.

708
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:44.519
Dear Rose turns up to rescue the doctor, with the time vortex

709
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:49.500
running through her head, and she has some superpowers to stop the

710
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:55.920
Dalek rays, and she announces that she is the bad wolf and

711
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.640
scatters herself messaged through time and space to send a message

712
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:00.180
to herself.

713
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.259
So, what did we think of that at the time?

714
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.680
Because I thought it was crap.

715
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:08.639
Why?

716
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:11.219
I just hated it at the time.

717
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:12.059
I just went...

718
00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:13.320
To Deus X Makina?

719
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.659
Yes, she scatters this message.

720
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.820
She's this bad wolf message.

721
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:21.420
I just thought it was really weak and I just thought that's it.

722
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:27.719
I think that if Euripides does the Deus X Martin. then Russell T

723
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:28.320
Davies can.

724
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:30.960
It is definitely a Deus X marker.

725
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:33.239
I'm not sure that it makes sense.

726
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:36.000
And certainly in subsequent commentaries.

727
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:37.559
DVD commentaries.

728
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:40.920
There was a wonderful commentary on Forest of the Dead with David

729
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:46.800
Tennant and Russell and Moffat, and I think they gently rib

730
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.940
Russell for the bad wolf thing, because it doesn't quite work.

731
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:52.559
It's a little bit sort of formless.

732
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:54.480
And her suddenly going, it's a message.

733
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:57.000
Like, I'm not quite sure how she gets there.

734
00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:57.719
James?

735
00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:00.179
Yes, no, it's crap.

736
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.159
It is it's a crap day, sex mashing up.

737
00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:07.079
But it's also kind of fabulous because she's wearing all that gold

738
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:11.880
body pain and she's quoting her own song lyrics.

739
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:13.800
What?

740
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:15.179
Okay. explain.

741
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:16.980
I see everything.

742
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:24.119
The sun, the moon, the day and night. night Oh, and I've got that

743
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:26.159
album too, people, so I should know that song.

744
00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:28.079
It is actually a very good song.

745
00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:29.940
I might have to recommend it.

746
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:30.960
Remind me.

747
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:34.500
That's very, that's very clever of you, German.

748
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.199
I'm surprised you didn't notice That's the 1st thing I noticed

749
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:41.280
when I was watching this episode in 2005 was, oh my god, it's a

750
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:42.179
Billy Piper song.

751
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.559
I've actually changed my tune on this over the years, and I think

752
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:51.960
part of changing the tune is what happens in season 4 or whenever

753
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:55.860
they refer back to the Bad Wolf, whether it be Bad Wolf Bay or

754
00:35:55.860 --> 00:36:01.980
that message that she sends in turn left, it suddenly has a big

755
00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:05.519
resonance and very emotional and very impactful.

756
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:10.139
So down the track, it's influenced me to actually quite like

757
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:10.619
this.

758
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:16.380
Yes, it's a little bit, as you say, seems very rushed and that's

759
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:16.619
it.

760
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:18.239
But I actually quite like it now.

761
00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:21.179
I absolutely don't object to that way of resolving the story

762
00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:22.860
because it's all been set up.

763
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:23.820
It all makes sense.

764
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:25.500
It has consequences.

765
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:26.579
It's really emotional.

766
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:27.900
I think it's wonderful.

767
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:29.400
And I think that scene is absolutely lovely.

768
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.360
The only bit I don't quite buy is that she gets the message that

769
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:37.079
she can go back from Bad Wolf being written in chalk on that

770
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:37.739
playground.

771
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.719
Why bad wolf, like, you know?

772
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.079
Oh, well, I mean, it is Bad Wolf because it's something linked to

773
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:44.579
that time and place.

774
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.119
It's a message from Satellite 5 in that year.

775
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:52.139
You don't believe that she was actually the Rupert Murdoch all the

776
00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:52.320
time.

777
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:55.380
Yeah. created Bad Wolf TV.

778
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.480
Wolf Media Enterprises.

779
00:36:57.539 --> 00:37:00.659
No, I actually think that she gets the word from them and then

780
00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:02.400
scatters it through the rest of the series.

781
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:06.960
And the other thing that I think is good is it's the 1st time we

782
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.619
very definitely get things happening and having consequences

783
00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:12.840
earlier in the show.

784
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:17.099
And we're about to have that in series 3 where the master

785
00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:22.980
dematerialises in episode 11 and rematerializes in an earlier

786
00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:24.239
Christmas special.

787
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:26.760
And I think that's amazing.

788
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.860
Like, I think that's absolutely incredible.

789
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:32.820
So he's definitely had a 2nd go at this idea and done it a bit

790
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.179
better.

791
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.619
But I think this is still pretty good.

792
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:40.139
And then Moffatt will do it constantly. yeah Well, I was going to

793
00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:42.239
say that Russell's playing the long game with that one.

794
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:43.679
But I won't.

795
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.059
So she saves the day.

796
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:52.139
And then she needs a doctor to kiss her.

797
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:55.079
So that all the new fans will be satisfied.

798
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:58.619
And the old might not tongue out.

799
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.039
We forgot the other kiss.

800
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:06.840
Oh, Captain Jack saying goodbye to Rose and the doctor.

801
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:13.440
Barriman made sure when filming that scene that he kissed them

802
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:15.659
exactly the same.

803
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:19.739
Yeah, to show that this is an enlightened guy from the future who

804
00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:21.659
doesn't have hang-ups like we do now.

805
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.980
There's also a great story about that where like when he kissed

806
00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:26.820
Eccleston.

807
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.460
There was one take where he just didn't stop.

808
00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:33.539
And he just keeps snocking his face off until they fall, fall in a

809
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:34.199
heap on the floor.

810
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.880
Where they laughing?

811
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:40.739
Well, it's good to know that Chris was having a fun time on the

812
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:40.980
set.

813
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:43.500
For at least a moment anyway.

814
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:44.579
Yeah.

815
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.380
No, he had everyone together.

816
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.119
They were doing a bit of a pert we for him.

817
00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:49.260
So his favourite director.

818
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.539
The people around him that he liked.

819
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.179
I know that people would have worked well with him and wished him

820
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:54.900
the very best.

821
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:56.219
He did a beautiful job for everyone.

822
00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:58.260
And he worked damn hard on this.

823
00:38:58.320 --> 00:38:59.280
He really cared.

824
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:03.119
He's a perfectionist and perfectionists are the 1st people to feel

825
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:05.760
downtrodden and hurt and affronted.

826
00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:09.420
Because those levels, you never really reach them.

827
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:12.360
But he has moments where he pretty much does.

828
00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:13.440
He actually really does.

829
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:14.219
Yeah.

830
00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:14.579
Oh, no.

831
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.219
I think he's incredible More of this in our Eccleston

832
00:39:17.219 --> 00:39:20.400
retrospective, which will just be lousy with panegyric, I think.

833
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:22.679
Yes, I'll take two.

834
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:23.159
Thank you.

835
00:39:23.219 --> 00:39:24.599
And a scotch.

836
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:28.860
So the doctor does kiss Rose in order to extract the time vortex

837
00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:33.420
from her head and just because he loves her as well.

838
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.340
Really?

839
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:36.719
Yes, absolutely.

840
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:38.699
I hate, you know, there's that.

841
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:42.300
Well, in fact, the doctor is a time lord from the planet Gallifray

842
00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:44.940
and the constellation of Consurberus and they don't kiss.

843
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.519
They just squeeze one another's left elbows.

844
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:51.179
And this is purely for a science fiction reason.

845
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:52.199
It's a kiss.

846
00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.900
So even if there's a science fiction reason for it.

847
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.760
It's a kiss. you know.

848
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.420
And so he loves her and she's done all of this stuff.

849
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.119
She's nearly sacrificed her life to save him.

850
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:07.440
Not to save the world because they don't manage to do that, but to

851
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:07.980
save him.

852
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:10.500
I feel like a naughty schoolboy thing.

853
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.699
Yes, I'm telling you off.

854
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.739
It's definitely a kiss.

855
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.079
They're in love. and they're kissing as well.

856
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:19.440
I just like to say that I'd actually don't believe that at all.

857
00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:21.000
And I don't, it doesn't sit well with me.

858
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:22.019
They shouldn't be kissing ever.

859
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.440
Isaac just sucking her golden essence out.

860
00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:29.820
You've said this before, Richard, I think.

861
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.800
It is don't snog the companions.

862
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:32.519
It's yucky.

863
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.179
I don't know if it's simply, to quote our Nathan.

864
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.340
It's not lampshading the telly movie.

865
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.280
Or did it Russell feel, I have to acknowledge this is what

866
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:42.300
television is now.

867
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.500
We have intimacy.

868
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:47.400
We can't have Dr. Magnus Pike in space anymore.

869
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:51.420
There actually has to be, you know, a dental hygiene and a

870
00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.440
willingness to engage.

871
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.480
He's not a new to public schoolboy.

872
00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:55.920
No, we haven't got Matt Smith.

873
00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:56.639
No, that's right.

874
00:40:56.699 --> 00:41:00.780
But also, you know, he loves Rose. that doesn't mean that they're

875
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:03.480
going to shag or anything like that, but it means that he really

876
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:04.139
loves her.

877
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:09.420
And so kissing her is an expression of his love for her as much as

878
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:12.420
it is about sucking out her golden juicy essence.

879
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:14.579
God, you can't keep that.

880
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.440
You said it.

881
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.380
Yours was worse. juicy essence.

882
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:24.420
Richard, Richard, Richard, I'm ignoring this listeners.

883
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:27.420
Richard, does it sit well with you or not?

884
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.400
The Kissy Facey.

885
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:33.659
I'm trying to picture anyone upfront mouth snogging Billy Hartnall

886
00:41:33.659 --> 00:41:35.400
when they're saying goodbye.

887
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.480
Can I just can't see it happening?

888
00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:41.519
No, it really doesn't because I think, although it does work in

889
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.320
this and I'm completely fine with it.

890
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:48.239
But if we're looking at it from a wider angle, it's he's 900 years

891
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:48.719
old.

892
00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:50.699
She's supposed to be 19.

893
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:52.440
Yeah, but what is age?

894
00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:55.380
What is age, but where you are in your body right now and the

895
00:41:55.380 --> 00:41:56.579
amount of hormones you've got.

896
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:57.840
So his body's not that old.

897
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.739
We're not suggesting that Captain Jack kissed the doctor for

898
00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:02.940
science fiction reasons.

899
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.039
He kissed him goodbye.

900
00:42:05.099 --> 00:42:09.599
And so the kiss doesn't have to mean we're snogging, but, you know

901
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:13.079
he doesn't do a Vulcan mind meld and put his fingers on her

902
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.460
temples.

903
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:16.260
You know what does actually kiss her?

904
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.519
Yeah, and you're right.

905
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:20.639
You know why it works because Eccles has been given an arc and

906
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:21.900
he's worked beautifully with it.

907
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.320
There is no way the Doctor of Rose would have done anything, even

908
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:28.139
holding a hand was award's a bit out there for him.

909
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:28.679
It was.

910
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:32.280
It was, and that was really one of the 1st tactile moments.

911
00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:36.000
You've seen, okay, Nicola and Colin were always trying to infuse

912
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.000
humanity into a relationship that didn't really seem to have very

913
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.000
much ridden into it at all, but they were trying to do that sort

914
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:43.920
of thing, certainly by mysterious planet.

915
00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:46.800
That was really quite lovely and jolly because they knew the

916
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.019
characters if it's going to work.

917
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.559
There has to be some connection that the audience can also enjoy.

918
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:55.920
But Eccles did it really beautifully coming out of, we know, he's

919
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:56.460
a war hero.

920
00:42:56.519 --> 00:43:01.199
What he is, is a lot of lads in the UK as well, but coming back

921
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:02.280
from a war zone.

922
00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:04.980
Now the British had troops stationed overseas and always have

923
00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:05.280
done.

924
00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:06.840
He's in Afghanistan.

925
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:09.659
He is...

926
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.420
Martin Freeman of our show. by any other ways.

927
00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:14.219
He's suffering from PTSD.

928
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:15.119
Yeah, he definitely is.

929
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:16.320
Definitely is.

930
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:20.099
I just wanted to say, like, with the kiss thing.

931
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:23.099
I have a lot of baggage from Classic Who?

932
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:24.300
Because that's what I'm used to.

933
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:28.380
And so I was never comfortable with the kissing in the telly

934
00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:28.619
movie.

935
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.000
Oh, it was awful.

936
00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:32.699
But I do buy it here.

937
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:36.960
I don't like necessarily seeing it often. but I'm okay with it.

938
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:38.280
I just like to clarify that.

939
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:44.940
Even though I was berated, like, for that point, Nathan.

940
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:48.300
I don't mind it.

941
00:43:48.420 --> 00:43:54.000
I do find it really interesting that he seems to have the vortex

942
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:58.679
in him for like all of 3 seconds compared to how long it runs

943
00:43:58.679 --> 00:43:59.340
through Billy.

944
00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:04.320
And she seems to come out of it completely fine, but he doesn't.

945
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:08.760
Maybe it's because he has to return it out of an essence.

946
00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:10.980
I don't know. sticky wickets here, isn't it?

947
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:15.179
But I do just have a problem with how short he contains it for.

948
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:16.380
I just wanted to see...

949
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:18.300
Oh, he's a bloke from the north, you know, they don't muck

950
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:18.539
around.

951
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:31.199
So the Dalek emperor asks him whether he is a coward or a killer.

952
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:36.719
And then we have, I think, possibly a defining moment for

953
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.159
Christopher Equiston as the doctor.

954
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:39.960
He gets a redo.

955
00:44:40.019 --> 00:44:43.380
He's put in a position that's identical with the position that we

956
00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:47.460
assume that he was in in the time war, where he got to press a

957
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:51.599
button to destroy the Daleks and his own people, and the decision

958
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:53.519
that he made was to do that.

959
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:59.039
And he has learned since then, and he gets the chance to reenact

960
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.440
it, that that wasn't what he should have done.

961
00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:03.420
It's so important.

962
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:08.880
Yeah, I think this, even before day of the doctor, we've had a

963
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:12.179
reenactment of that crucial moment in the time war, and we get it

964
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:14.940
here, and his decision is different.

965
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:15.659
Yeah.

966
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:16.980
Yeah.

967
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:19.380
Nicely put, Nathan. because he's going to wipe out the entire

968
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:20.280
world, isn't he?

969
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:24.659
There's not enough time to calibrate or whatever, the Delta wave

970
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:24.960
thing.

971
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:26.460
So that's his choice.

972
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:27.840
Hail the doctor.

973
00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:29.099
The great exterminator.

974
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:33.599
Yeah, well, we've already seen our friend the Dalek from Dalek, our

975
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:38.699
eponymous Dalek, accuse the doctor of being like a Dalek, and now

976
00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:42.659
we get the emperor doing the same thing, and he realises that his

977
00:45:42.659 --> 00:45:48.659
decision to destroy his home planet, and all of the Daleks was the

978
00:45:48.659 --> 00:45:50.460
wrong one, that he can't do that.

979
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:55.139
Even if it needs to be done, even if morally speaking, it's the

980
00:45:55.139 --> 00:45:56.099
right decision.

981
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:01.079
It's such a morally toxic thing to do beyond the utilitarian

982
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:04.559
argument is another argument about whether you're going to be the

983
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:05.519
agent of that or not.

984
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:09.239
I actually think, though, that it does suffer a bit from being

985
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:13.440
rather undramatically directed and scored. don't know that it is.

986
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:15.960
It certainly still strikes the heartstrings.

987
00:46:16.019 --> 00:46:20.639
I was watching it again today after so many years thinking, yeah, I

988
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.460
would have done it, and I would have taken on that karmic

989
00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:27.960
backlodge and, you know, paid for it seeing how many lives hens

990
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:29.760
because it was the right thing to do.

991
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:33.300
We're not saying the comics is of these 2 episodes, like the

992
00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:35.579
doctor's already given a gun back earlier.

993
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.820
And so here again, it's showcasing that he's not willing just to

994
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:40.980
take life for the sake of taking life.

995
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.539
But it's not fresh for him.

996
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:43.500
He's already done that.

997
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.559
Yes, he's done that before. he doesn't want to repeat the same

998
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:47.159
mistake.

999
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:48.059
I think that's it.

1000
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:49.559
He can only bring himself to do it once.

1001
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:51.840
This is a Buddhist parable.

1002
00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:52.860
We ever mention that before.

1003
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.920
It's not a trolly problem because there's more than sort of

1004
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.440
consequentialism in the sort of moral calculus.

1005
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:01.440
It is kind of the wrong thing to do because of what it will do to

1006
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.239
you because of the kind of person you become.

1007
00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:04.920
This is the point and that's the beauty of it.

1008
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:08.519
He says, I'm willing to take on the great pain of the rest of the

1009
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:11.699
world and be worse than everyone because it will ultimately

1010
00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:12.420
spare.

1011
00:47:12.539 --> 00:47:17.159
Look how far he's grown from being Tom from that 4th doctor you

1012
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:17.460
said.

1013
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.639
I can't put these fuse wise together because, you know, it's a

1014
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.059
couple of fuse wires. and yes, all of that sort of thing.

1015
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:27.480
Well, you've actually faced your moral responsibility, which is

1016
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:31.199
yes, your ego is not bigger than this situation and you actually

1017
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:32.699
do have to sublimate yourself.

1018
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:36.300
Like, I don't think that the story wants to come down on a

1019
00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:37.380
particular side or anything.

1020
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:39.960
Do we applaud him for doing it or is he actually just copying

1021
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:40.139
out?

1022
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:41.460
Is he doing another top?

1023
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:45.599
Is he doing another Tom and he's actually learnt nothing because

1024
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:49.500
his moral duty was to protect these people from this future?

1025
00:47:49.739 --> 00:47:53.940
So in fact, he's simply gone back. oh he's wasted 5 lines.

1026
00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:57.780
But it's one of these things where there isn't a right decision.

1027
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:01.559
When he destroys Galafray, he decides one way and becomes a mass

1028
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:02.099
murderer.

1029
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.360
He just listened to your podcast.

1030
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:04.980
He said what you think about Gallifrey.

1031
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:06.119
All those sofas.

1032
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:09.599
And then he gets to make the decision again, and again, it's the

1033
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.119
wrong decision because he just leaves Earth to be destroyed and

1034
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:13.559
who knows what's going to happen well.

1035
00:48:13.619 --> 00:48:19.079
In fact, Rose, much like Garmin before her comes in and, you know

1036
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:20.880
takes the need for the decision away.

1037
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:25.500
And it's only in Moffat's era where he gets to kind of Kobayashi

1038
00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:29.940
Maru that dilemma and find a 3rd cheat way out of it.

1039
00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:34.860
But I like that that becomes live.

1040
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.679
We don't get to see the doctor in the time war, but we do get to

1041
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:40.320
see him confronted with that same decision.

1042
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:50.400
And so did, since that brings us to the end moments in the TARDIS

1043
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:56.159
with Christopher and Billy and the whole regeneration, which has

1044
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:59.159
come about because Christopher is not continuing on to a 2nd

1045
00:48:59.159 --> 00:48:59.460
series.

1046
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:03.480
This time when I was watching it, I was acutely aware that they

1047
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:05.159
didn't seem to be in the room together.

1048
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:08.039
Were they not in the room together at all?

1049
00:49:08.099 --> 00:49:10.679
Tenant's definitely not in the room with Billy.

1050
00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:16.380
I knew that, but I thought that they were both in that console

1051
00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:17.039
room together.

1052
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:20.820
So I think they are in the same shot initially she wakes up, but

1053
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:24.000
that whole conversation where they're speaking to one another

1054
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.199
across the TARDIS and they're in completely separate shots, whether

1055
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.920
they're not there in the same room or whether a Hearn is directing

1056
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:36.179
it so that it's not jarring when suddenly her and Tennant aren't

1057
00:49:36.179 --> 00:49:37.019
in the room together.

1058
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:40.619
I don't know, but it did look a bit jarring, I think.

1059
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.039
They wrote an alternative version of that scene.

1060
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:48.480
As a red herring to try and keep people off the scent that

1061
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.820
Eccleston was leaving.

1062
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.639
How did that work out?

1063
00:49:53.699 --> 00:49:54.420
Whoops.

1064
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:59.639
Um, where they actually head off to Barcelona.

1065
00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:04.920
There's no regeneration and the closing of the whole series was

1066
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:09.840
supposed to be, the TARDIS having scanned Rose and a little

1067
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.940
message coming up saying life form dying.

1068
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.500
What you were saying before about the time vortex not damaging her

1069
00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:21.239
but killing him, Russell turned that on his head in the scene that

1070
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:26.219
they filmed or were going to film to release on the on the press

1071
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:26.639
tapes.

1072
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:26.940
Right.

1073
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:32.820
Like was actually dealing with the fact that, well, no, it would

1074
00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:33.179
kill her.

1075
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:37.500
I actually didn't know whether they would get to do a proper

1076
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:38.460
regeneration scene.

1077
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:41.400
I didn't know whether it would be like Colin saying carrot juice

1078
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.219
carrot juice, carrot juice, and then we would just turn up the

1079
00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:49.679
next season with a new doctor because there was kind of no way of

1080
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.239
knowing what the production was like.

1081
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:53.579
Clarence of Salford kiss on the console.

1082
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:58.320
He was poisoned by carrot juice in an exercise bike.

1083
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:02.699
You know, I didn't know how whether his resignation had been a

1084
00:51:02.699 --> 00:51:06.840
surprise, whether it had been announced after the series was in

1085
00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:08.280
the can or what.

1086
00:51:08.340 --> 00:51:10.019
You know, there was kind of no way of knowing.

1087
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:13.860
And so I was watching this and I remember being hugely delighted

1088
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:17.940
that we did seem to be getting a regeneration scene.

1089
00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:22.380
In the series Bible, Russell says that there's no need to

1090
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:26.820
introduce the idea of regeneration because he doesn't anticipate

1091
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:28.739
that he's going to be changing cast every year.

1092
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:33.840
But I think it does a pretty good job of kind of selling it to

1093
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:34.800
viewers.

1094
00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:40.019
But can you imagine being a new series fan, and then he's suddenly

1095
00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:42.480
just talking about the fact that all his cells in his body are

1096
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:46.739
dying and he has his little trick, and then it all hell blakes

1097
00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:48.119
loose with that explosion.

1098
00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:50.219
Like you'd be going, what the hell is going on?

1099
00:51:50.219 --> 00:51:51.360
And then there's another person there.

1100
00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:55.920
I liked it back in the good old days where they would just recast

1101
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:57.960
the doctor and not really tell you why.

1102
00:51:58.139 --> 00:52:02.579
And I think ever since they explained it 1st in the war games and

1103
00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:05.880
then again in Planet of the Spiders, the whole thing, kind of lost

1104
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:06.539
its mystery.

1105
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.179
I'd prefer to think of the doctor as someone who just gets recast

1106
00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:11.280
every 3 years or so.

1107
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:15.719
But I think he does kind of a deaf job of introducing that whole

1108
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:17.400
concept of regeneration.

1109
00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:20.699
And I look forward to a future time where, you know, the doctor is

1110
00:52:20.699 --> 00:52:22.380
a generated and he has no head.

1111
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:24.780
Oh, that's right.

1112
00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:26.639
Or no nose or something.

1113
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:28.619
No, that's the dogs on Barcelona.

1114
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:30.539
I'm getting confused again.

1115
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:36.420
Yeah, no, like that whole dialogue is, I think sells it well and

1116
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:39.840
Christopher was always going to get to say the word fantastic a

1117
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:42.300
number of times right there at the end.

1118
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:44.099
It's his catchphrase.

1119
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.440
In fact, that was one of the things that I thought I would most

1120
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.219
miss when Tenant took over because I loved the fact that the

1121
00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:54.059
doctor thought everything was fantastic and I thought that they

1122
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:55.739
wouldn't survive into Tenant.

1123
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:59.639
And I think an original draft of the Christmas invasion had a

1124
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:02.280
thread where he kept trying to say fantastic at not being very

1125
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:04.079
good at eventually dropping.

1126
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:06.179
It didn't work until this came out. right.

1127
00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:08.400
There we go.

1128
00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:10.019
Christopher's gone.

1129
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:12.059
David's there with a bit of dialogue.

1130
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:15.300
We'll find out what we think of the new guy. in a few

1131
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:16.019
commentaries.

1132
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.900
I think his catchphrase is going to be Barcelona.

1133
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:20.400
It's going to be new teeth.

1134
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:21.780
That's weird.

1135
00:53:32.099 --> 00:53:37.139
It's time for pix of the week, and I'm going to let other people

1136
00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:39.300
go first so that I have time to think of one.

1137
00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:47.219
So my pick of the week on the Time War Dalek theme is series 6 of

1138
00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:51.420
the Big Finish Gala Phrase series.

1139
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.119
I really like Galafre.

1140
00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:57.420
It's kind of, it's Gary Russell's own little project.

1141
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:57.960
That's why.

1142
00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:01.500
Yeah, it's Gary, Gary all over it. doing the original House of

1143
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:01.860
Cards.

1144
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.659
But in space and time.

1145
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:05.699
And frogs.

1146
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:11.159
They're really sort of fun and twisty and turny and, you know, it's

1147
00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:14.460
Lala Ward and Louise Jameson, for God's sake.

1148
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:17.039
It's always good, even if it's crap.

1149
00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:25.800
Um, but that ties into in a big way ties into the time war and how

1150
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:26.519
it started.

1151
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:30.059
But I can't say any more than that because it'll ruin it for you.

1152
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:34.079
I look forward to listening to those sometime in 2043.

1153
00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:39.539
My pick of the week is for classic series, fans, or for new series

1154
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:42.239
fans who'd like to go back and visit the classic series, but when

1155
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:46.559
the Daleks were Daleks and had great dialogue between them and

1156
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:51.599
weren't ruled by Davros and the doctor had a friend who made a new

1157
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:56.880
friend on the planet Excelon, so my pick of the week is the John

1158
00:54:56.880 --> 00:54:59.519
Perchby classic Death to the Daleks, go and enjoy.

1159
00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:01.079
Oh, that's the 1st one I ever saw.

1160
00:55:01.139 --> 00:55:02.159
Richard?

1161
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:05.400
Oh, well, mine, I've already mentioned it's Marina Warner's

1162
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:08.639
writing if you want to look at what comes before this, and if you

1163
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:12.480
really like to look at, you know, the stuff that goes underneath.

1164
00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:13.980
She's written some really good ones.

1165
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:14.820
Signs and wonders.

1166
00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:15.539
I really liked.

1167
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.820
Oh, what else?

1168
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:19.440
Really good ones if you want to look at how.

1169
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:24.059
Why people write this way and what's underneath it and where it's

1170
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:24.719
all coming from?

1171
00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:28.260
So, um, no go the bogeyman is one of my favourites and it's about

1172
00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:33.179
male dark archetypes in fiction and mythology.

1173
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.820
But then monuments and maintenance is the feminine one.

1174
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.320
I just go to her for any of the ones.

1175
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.880
The overarching ones.

1176
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:40.079
The lost father's really good.

1177
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:41.820
Yeah, take that, George Lucas.

1178
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:45.119
The myths of our time, a loan of all her sex.

1179
00:55:45.659 --> 00:55:46.440
There's signs and wonders.

1180
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:47.639
I go and look at signs and wonders.

1181
00:55:47.699 --> 00:55:50.219
Just if you want to do further reading or just listen to Big

1182
00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:51.780
Finish, you don't have to work that home.

1183
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:55.079
Oh, I've just realised, my other pick of the week.

1184
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:59.159
Must be Billy Piper's day and night album, where you can listen to

1185
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:03.000
all of the lyrics, to all of the songs and see where they fit into

1186
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:04.800
series one and 2 of Doctor.

1187
00:56:04.860 --> 00:56:05.340
Do they really?

1188
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.199
Do they really though?

1189
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:07.980
If you want to.

1190
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:12.900
It's a little known fact that Russell T. Davis actually based Bad

1191
00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:15.780
Wolf in the Parting of the Ways on that album.

1192
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:22.860
All right, so my one is a complete cheat, and it's also an

1193
00:56:22.860 --> 00:56:25.920
opportunity to make up for how mean I am to James all the time.

1194
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:28.619
We have a new Doctor Who flash cast.

1195
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:30.659
It's called Jody Inter Terra.

1196
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:35.880
And what we do is we just Skype in, like proper podcasting

1197
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:40.079
professionals every week for sort of about 20 minutes and talk

1198
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:44.280
about our sort of hot takes, our 1st impressions of series 11.

1199
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:50.219
James has designed a spectacular website for us and a logo, which

1200
00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:52.800
I am hugely, hugely delighted by.

1201
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:57.840
And any 2nd now, I'm going to make him edit it all from now on.

1202
00:56:58.619 --> 00:57:04.139
But James and James's husband, Jason and Richard and a few others

1203
00:57:04.139 --> 00:57:06.659
are kind of the motive force behind us doing that.

1204
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:10.500
The alternative would have been us reaching series 11 at some time

1205
00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:15.420
in 2023, by which time we would be doing it underwater in scuba

1206
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:15.840
gear.

1207
00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:17.820
That's it.

1208
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.159
It was mainly to get us, well, me out of the house.

1209
00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:21.719
That's it.

1210
00:57:21.780 --> 00:57:25.380
This is why he's constantly suggesting podcast projects, you see.

1211
00:57:25.500 --> 00:57:28.500
We were going to call that one the underweening menace.

1212
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.679
Overweening the underwhelming man.

1213
00:57:31.739 --> 00:57:31.980
Yes.

1214
00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:38.460
So that's it, Jodieintaterterra.com and Apple Podcasts and stuff

1215
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:38.940
like that.

1216
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:42.480
I'm sad he's gone.

1217
00:57:42.539 --> 00:57:43.500
Yeah.

1218
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:47.219
Well, we've got one more episode and we'll certainly be going on

1219
00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:51.420
about how great he was because he really was.

1220
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:56.039
That is a massively special year, I think. certainly for me.

1221
00:57:56.099 --> 00:58:01.199
And I look forward to telling Todd who from that season I would

1222
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:02.760
snog marry or avoid.

1223
00:58:29.940 --> 00:58:34.019
Weldy listener, that's all the time, an emotional energy that we

1224
00:58:34.019 --> 00:58:34.860
have this week.

1225
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:37.920
We'll be back next time for our Christopher Eccleston

1226
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:38.639
Retrospective.

1227
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:42.480
In the meantime, you can find us at Flightthrough Entirety.com

1228
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.780
Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FT

1229
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:46.920
podcast on Twitter.

1230
00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:50.519
Over on Bondfinger, you can find highly expert and deeply

1231
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.519
considered commentaries on every film in the James Bond

1232
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:54.239
franchise.

1233
00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:57.659
That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts

1234
00:58:57.659 --> 00:59:02.039
and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. casino royale.infinitum.

1235
00:59:02.099 --> 00:59:04.440
Any number of versions of that.

1236
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:08.280
Until next time, may your next holiday in Barcelona be as

1237
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:10.320
hilarious as the doctor makes it sound.

1238
00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:12.480
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1239
00:59:12.539 --> 00:59:13.500
See you soon.

1240
00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:13.980
Good night.

1241
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:15.000
How does he smell?

1242
00:59:19.619 --> 00:59:23.280
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan

1243
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.320
Bottomley, James Hellwood, and Richard Stone.

1244
00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:28.380
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane

1245
00:59:28.380 --> 00:59:29.219
Orberg.

1246
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:33.119
This episode, fostering tagging, was recorded on the 14th of

1247
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:36.179
October 2018, and released on the 18th of November.

1248
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:43.260
To counteract our relentless positivity over the past few weeks

1249
00:59:43.260 --> 00:59:46.199
I'll now be travelling backward in time to scatter the word

1250
00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:48.659
tiresome throughout the last 13 episodes.

1251
00:59:48.780 --> 00:59:50.519
I hope you enjoy it.

1252
00:59:53.579 --> 00:59:55.019
So interesting titbit.

1253
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:58.260
I wish we can probably use the tag.

1254
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:06.420
Um, so, um, In, in Harry Potter and the goblet of Fire.

1255
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:13.619
The character and the character of Buddy Crouch Jr. is like has

1256
01:00:13.619 --> 01:00:18.719
his soul sucked out by a mentor in a chapter called The Parting of

1257
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:19.199
the Way.

1258
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:21.599
Oh, spooky.

1259
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:23.880
Is Spider Crab Jr. played by David Tenon?

1260
01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:24.599
Yeah, yeah.

1261
01:00:24.659 --> 01:00:25.380
There you go.

1262
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:27.420
Introducing David Tennant as the doctor.

1263
01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:30.059
What year did that film and book come out?

1264
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:31.139
The book was 2000.

1265
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:34.139
The film came out after Doctor Who.

1266
01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:36.599
Yeah, but the book was out.

1267
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:38.519
By that point, I think.

1268
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:39.719
But hang on.

1269
01:00:39.780 --> 01:00:43.320
Parting of the ways, Buddy Crouch being tenant.

1270
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:45.480
No, it's a coincidence.

1271
01:00:45.539 --> 01:00:47.099
No, it's a total coincidence.

1272
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.420
It's not a deliberate reference.

1273
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.159
It's just, it's just a coincidence.

1274
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:53.400
No, J.K. Rowling scattered it back through time.

1275
01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:55.860
Oh, shit.

1276
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:56.280
Good honest.

1277
01:00:56.340 --> 01:00:59.340
She was the golden suck facing essence all the time.

1278
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:05.159
It's interesting, Nathan, that you just said, um, Introducing

1279
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:06.420
David Tennant as the doctor.

1280
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:10.380
Well, actually introducing David Hennant as Doctor Who. is in the

1281
01:01:10.380 --> 01:01:14.280
credits and is the final time that I think he's referenced as

1282
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:18.780
Doctor Who because didn't David say that he's actually the

1283
01:01:18.780 --> 01:01:19.019
doctor?

1284
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:20.519
Yeah, big fanboy.

1285
01:01:20.579 --> 01:01:23.760
I don't agree with that because he was Doctor Who for the 1st 18

1286
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:25.320
years and should remain Doctor Who.

1287
01:01:25.380 --> 01:01:27.420
I love the fact when it came back, it was Doctor Who.

1288
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:29.159
It's not called The Doctor, is it?

1289
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:33.119
I think I recall you at the time.

1290
01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:38.820
Todd, saying, saying, well, it went to crap when they drop Stock 2

1291
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:39.719
from the end titles.

1292
01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:41.340
It's going to be cancelled.

1293
01:01:41.579 --> 01:01:44.159
Well, that still could happen.

1294
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:45.239
Good next listeners.

1295
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:48.059
But there we go.

1296
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:49.800
All right.