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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:11:30

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast Tired of all this talk about Daleks and just wanting to know where to collect our prize money from.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm James and I'm elegantly bronzed for this episode.

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Well, we've spent an exhausting week trapped on that spaceship surrounded by megabytes of CGI pedal bins.

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Still, I imagine the doctor will be along to rescue us any 2nd now.

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So while we're waiting, let's talk about the series one finale, the Parting of the Waves.

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How does this episode begin?

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They do the reprise, and it cuts straight into the next...

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Into the opening credits?

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No, no, no, into the next scene.

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So it literally just flows as if it's the one scene.

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Like they just cut that scene in half.

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My 1st lot of notes here, say the missiles launched at the TARDIS and there's an impossible explosion a la survival and the doctor and motorbikes, but that's not the 1st shot, is it?

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Yeah, but we don't actually see the doctor sort of get into the TARDIS and set the coordinates for anything or anything like that.

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We're on the ship, aren't we?

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And Rose is being told to predict the doctor's movements and she refuses to do it.

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And then she says, oh, you know, the TARDIS has no defences if you fire a missile at it, he'll die.

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And then they say you have predicted correctly.

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The Daleks actually do great dialogue when Russell is writing.

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You know, we saw it with Sherman as well, but this is the 1st kind of big giant Dalek story that has more the one Dalek and has good, fun, excellent dialogue.

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You don't need Davros along to do that.

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And that's exactly what Russell wanted, but he loved those century 21 backpage strips and they were pithy and ironic one-liners.

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There was wit in those as well.

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The dog's very boring when written by Terry Nation.

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I think it went spread out.

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But they have great little moments.

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I think they're funny in the chase.

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Yeah.

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Especially that one digging itself out of the sand.

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There might be the fact that, you know, a lot of terry nation starlic stuff is in the mid 60s.

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So it's a different feel to television.

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So I can understand where you're coming from with that.

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But the Daleks themselves here, up until the emperor is introduced.

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Have their own little personalities.

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They're willing to converse, they're willing to move back with their eye stalks and back away from the doctor and all that sort of thing.

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So it's nice to see them have some sort of characteristics other than just be Davros's army.

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I think they're super interesting here too.

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Russell has occasionally sort of had digs at religion.

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You know, religion was one of the weapons that was forbidden on platform one in the end of the world.

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And here the Daleks use all of this explicitly religious language about blasphemy.

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It's the biggest thing about this story and the thing I wanted to bang on about because it really does feel like it's the Hillsong Church or whatever you have in the UK.

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But it's the Daleks are Pentecostals.

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I had originally thought that given that this is a post 911 series of Doctor Who, that maybe we were sort of fundamentalist terrorists.

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But watching it this time, all I could get was that they were kind of conservative, fundamentalist Christians.

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Super far-right Bush family acolytes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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They would have voted for Trump in 2016.

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Totally Starlakes.

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The big killer lion is the line about how they hate their own flesh.

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They hate their humanity.

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They've been made from human beings and they hate the fact that they're human and subject to sort of human frailty.

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There's also that incredibly cheeky line, which I think has been observed heaps of times before.

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When Rose says the Daleks are half human and the Daleks respond with that is blasphemy, which is exactly what Gallifrey Base said, I think, when the doctor said he was half human in the TV movie.

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Of course, that's what he's lap shading.

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Of course it is.

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Those lines around there are really, really good.

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And the filleting line.

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Yeah.

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Oh, sifted and filleted.

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It's even the words that are used.

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The way it's enunciated.

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Yeah, it's very visceral.

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Well, it's poetry.

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I mean, he's chosen those words, not just for their meaning, but also for their sound, I think.

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It's very well written.

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And also words that you wouldn't usually hear from a dalek.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Dalek language is usually quite boring.

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Seek location extermination.

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Yes, well, scientific, factual.

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It's not descriptive.

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It's not poetic like you say.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, so this is an amazing kind of reconception of the Daleks, because we've talked about them being communists before and about being Nazis.

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We've had them as...

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Amway salesman, consumerists and so on.

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And now they're the religious.

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And I think that when Russell introduces old monsters to his new series. does try and find something new to say about them.

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He certainly does.

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And it's always about the abuse and misuse of modern technology.

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The ease and fun and the way it was meant to bring us all together and all that we've allowed it to do in the way that we debase the fundament of anything that we get a hold of, say Big Brother or whatever is meant to, you know, be familial and bring people together and it's actually just become the Hunger Games. defeated.

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The side men next series.

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Yeah, more of that next year.

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What do we think about the emperor?

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Richard has opinions?

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think I'm okay with it.

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Well, I think he's meant to be the US, isn't he?

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He's really meant to be cultural imperialism.

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George W.

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Bush.

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James?

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I prefer the original.

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What, the white pepper pot?

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The lady emperor.

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The black and white Empradale from Evil of the Daleks.

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Because it looks so different.

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This one just looks fat.

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Though, it is, it is, it is, it is a Mike Tucker prop.

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I think it's amazing.

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It's beautiful.

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And is huge.

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Like for a prop.

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How big was it?

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It's a large scale miniature.

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It's about 6 feet tall.

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I guess when I was watching this, and looking at that, on the Blu-ray, all the Daleks around it, not just the ones floating in the air, but in the background doing little things, I never realised how many different ones there were.

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That's sort of what drew my attention.

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It's the kind of thing that Terry Nation would always have wanted to do.

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And he tries to do it in planet of the Daleks and they're reduced to using the little toy Daleks.

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Yeah.

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And it's 10,000 Daleks astonishingly.

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So this is a mere half 1000000 of them, but they really give that impression.

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It's amazing.

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It is like finally having the entire toy box to play with.

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The doctor materialises around rose and a dalek.

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And a dalek.

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That's the 1st time a dalek has ever been in the tartis.

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I don't think we've ever materialised around anyone before.

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Well, that was my point.

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I was going, is this the 1st time?

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Yeah.

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It's happened again a bunch of times now, I think.

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I think they've gone there again, but that is the 1st time.

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And that's great.

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You know, the doctor does something amazing.

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I think it's in TV comic.

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We need to we need to ask Gary Russell, friend of the podcast.

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I'm pretty sure it's happened in one of the comics in the 70s.

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Yeah, the televisual antecedent of that is gobless.

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But Time Monster.

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Oh, yeah, Lagopolis.

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Because Time Monce is the funniest Doctor Who episode...

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Materialising around Tartises.

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Yeah, that's the closest we've ever got.

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Yeah.

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Fan, fan, fan.

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Bang, bang, bang.

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But it's good.

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You know, the doctor does something very clever, something that no one who's written for the show before has ever thought of.

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So he's bringing his A game to this rescue, I think.

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And his massive comic back catalogue.

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Yes.

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I really like Eckles in this one.

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He does gravitas really beautifully and all the gurning and all the rest of it.

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It's really nicely referenced in this because you can see, you were actually just putting on a mask.

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It always felt a bit fake and we make lots of jokes.

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I'm under Ionucci spent an entire year making cracks about Christopher Eccleston's gurning on every radio show he was on.

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The guy who wrote the thick of it and, you know, in the loop and all the rest, um, and Veep.

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So, you know, he's, but he, a massive Dr. Ivan was always joking.

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And that was the, the parlance of the criticism at the time was that, you know, he really isn't comfortable being humourous and doing work for children.

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No, no, no, you all missed the and you can see it here.

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That is his frailty and that is his mask because underneath is just abject horror at what he's seen and utter defeat and the feebleness that he feels of just trying to be optimistic, faking it.

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Yeah.

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And you can see that he admits it here.

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And there are all these moments.

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We're not at the end yet, but all these little moments that presage the end moments for Eccleston, where you see, oh, I can really see where you've been going with this, and it's very impressive.

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He goes straight from giving them noul point, like a Eurovision charge.

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And then when he gets back into the Tartar, there's that incredible scene where he's resting his head against the door and listening to the Daleks say exterminate and firing at the TARDIS and just not saying anything and no one comments on it.

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But it is exactly what you said.

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It's a mask, all that discomfort that he's felt with the levity and stuff all along, is really deliberately in service of the character.

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It's a great point.

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Like, I mean, that mask is there, obviously, with the whole Delta Wave project and giving people hope, whether it be Linda or Jack or Rose and then sending her away and you see that mask slip.

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Because that is what the doctor does that, like, he brings people hope.

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Yeah.

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And that's not been foregrounded so much in the original series.

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No, he kind of sidestepped it and Genesis of the Daleks is a good one for that, isn't it?

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But yes, he seemed to sort of feel that sacrifice is something people have to make, but he never wanted to face it head on.

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So they get back to the station, and they have to come up with a plan to save Earth and to save the people on the station.

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Linda is there and our male and female controllers or programmers.

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It's very interesting to watch the doctor's interactions with Linda, how perhaps awkward they are with Rose looking on, and you also see Roses, a bit of jealousy there, which comes up again later in the series with Martha.

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Like it's, I just found that really intriguing just to see Billy's performance throughout those sequences.

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It's really rough, isn't it?

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The doctor says you could come with me, I think maybe last episode, but the offer is kind of repeated only in front of Rose and when she goes off to sort of monitor her station.

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She actually touches the TARDIS a bit proprietorily as she goes past us and Rose sees it.

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And Rose is kind of a bit sort of self-centred and self-absorbed, I think, as a person and she only gets worse next year.

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Look how she treats Mickey.

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Message you, no, there's nothing here for me.

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And Mickey says, what?

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Nothing?

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No, nothing.

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It's the most callous, cold moment of the whole season for me.

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He stands there with a broken heart.

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You watched Boomtown this morning.

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Yeah, but...

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We get it again in this one.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Just a hammer at home, you sucker.

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But like the moment in this episode where she treats him like that, and then he and her mother still go out of their way to help her get back to the future to save the doctor.

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It shows the quality of those characters.

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Let's talk about that bit.

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Like, the Dr. Tricks rose into getting into the TARDIS so that she can escape and Murray Gold conspires with the doctor as well because the doctor does this sort of, oh, I've suddenly cracked it and Murray goes in, like tries to sell that moment to ask as well. swell of music.

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And then, as Richard said, before, the mask drops once she's safely in the TARDIS because he never intends to see her again, and he sends her back home.

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And there's that breathtaking moment where the doctor's ghost speaks to her in the Tartar saying he's dead.

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That just gives me chills every single time that speech happens.

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I'm still vivid in my memory.

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The moment that goes turns to her.

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Yeah, he turns to camera, all the interference patterns are gone.

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It's just Christopher Eccleston and the voice treatment changes as well.

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Like it suddenly becomes real.

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It's so incredibly beautiful and it's really sold.

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And I think, you know, for a little while, even though I've watched this 100s and 100s of times because it is, as I said before, possibly my favourite Doctor Who story.

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For a moment, I thought, oh, they're never going to see one another again.

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You know, that's really what's being said at that moment.

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Have a good life.

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Have a good life.

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Do that for me.

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Have a fantastic life.

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So beautiful.

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Chill.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And then, of course, we just cut to those chickens revolving in that revolting rotisserie thing in the restaurant where they're eating chick.

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I love.

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I'm just thinking, is that a predicate of Eccles's future career?

218
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No, he's told them all to knobble.

219
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I think Russell was being a complete bitch.

220
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I just laugh every time.

221
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Oh, they've gone off market.

222
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Yeah, they do little tubs of...

223
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They tastes kind of clinical.

224
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So like the pizza shop.

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You know, have you seen the new pizza shop in whatever road?

226
00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:01.740
Oh what does it have?

227
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:02.639
Old pizza.

228
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:09.120
You know, like it is the most banal conversation ever conducted as part of a television program.

229
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:15.539
And Rose has just left, you know, the year 200,000 where Daleks are destroying the world.

230
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:18.419
And they're just talking absolute nonsense.

231
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.639
And that speech, that thing is wonderful.

232
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:24.600
And she's trying the whole time not to seem arrogant.

233
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:25.919
That's a really good point.

234
00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:32.279
Because she is like that to Mickey later on, but at this point, her mask hasn't dropped.

235
00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:33.600
Yeah.

236
00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:40.980
I mean, you talk about Richard, that horrible speech that inspires Mickey to kind of just say, all right, I'm going to help her go.

237
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:49.200
And, of course, the speech that she gives to Jackie is about her father from Father's Day.

238
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:50.580
Was that little girl?

239
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.100
Oh, yeah, it's wonderful.

240
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.139
But it's also incredibly cruel.

241
00:15:55.139 --> 00:16:08.519
And it's, it's, the character of Rose pushing against the people that she loves because they ground her in, in the normal, everyday world and she could be safe and happy there.

242
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:09.299
Yeah.

243
00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:12.960
And she she needs to not be.

244
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:18.480
She needs to alienate them so that she can get back to what she wants.

245
00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:19.440
Well, yes.

246
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:23.340
Yeah, she's, she's, like you say, Nathan, incredibly selfish character.

247
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:32.100
She's super emotionally manipulative and like she's rubbing Jackie's husband's death, you know, rubbing it in her face. in order to get her to go away.

248
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:33.179
Is she?

249
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:44.460
Well, I think what's happening here is that Rose thinks that Jackie and Mickey are dragging her back, that they're holding her back, and the reason that she had such a dull life.

250
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:49.860
The reason that she nearly decided not to go with a doctor was...

251
00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:51.840
Yeah, Mickey and Jackie need me.

252
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:53.039
I'm the grown-up here.

253
00:16:53.100 --> 00:17:03.299
I'm, you know, doing all the emotional labour, but she's wrong because the 2 of them are the people who get together and enable her to resume that life.

254
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:04.140
Yes.

255
00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:11.460
And I think that they come off just amazingly great in this and Mickey particularly.

256
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:29.700
But Jackie is wonderful when she comes back with that big jet, big yellow truck. the love they have for her And they're willing to put aside whatever manipulation or feelings to give her what she wants. is just incredibly moving and incredible.

257
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:35.339
And Jackie with that truck and, you know, you've got it for 2 hours, like Regrigo or whatever.

258
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:41.339
And Mickey being able to be there in his little mini trying to get the heart of the TARDIS open.

259
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:48.119
It just shows what a character is he is and how he has grown as a character.

260
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.720
This is a defining moment, a real pivoting turning point in that character.

261
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:58.259
And the timing of it as well is he's like, we need something stronger than my little mini.

262
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.759
Something like this.

263
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:15.059
I think too, that it is amazing that in a story set in the year 200,000 that the people who end up saving the world, in fact, they don't save the world and we'll get to that.

264
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:22.140
But the people who end up saving the doctor are just ordinary people on earth in the present day.

265
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:27.599
And Russell, you know, has talked about Planet Zog, we've referenced it many times before.

266
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.359
That's not what he's interested in.

267
00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:31.980
He's interested in people.

268
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:42.839
And for that reason, all of his other season finales are set on earth in the present day, and a big sort of climactic apocalyptic things happening to our world.

269
00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:49.259
Here he said it in the distant future, but it's still our main characters.

270
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.880
It's still Jackie and Mickey who actually managed to save the world.

271
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:55.440
And Rose.

272
00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:55.799
Yeah.

273
00:18:55.859 --> 00:19:00.359
Well, none of the other characters could save the world because they all bloody die.

274
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:04.740
Just all keep dying, don't you?

275
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:08.640
They literally the only people who don't die in this episode.

276
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:09.539
Jack.

277
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.660
Well, no, Jack dies and the doctor dies.

278
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:14.099
He gets brought back to life.

279
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:19.380
But the only characters that don't die are Rose, Mickey and Jackie.

280
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.900
So our present day contemporaries.

281
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.640
Yeah, they are the heart of the show.

282
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:30.779
It's actually, I think this is the 1st time since Horror Fang Rock, the entire guest cast is killed off.

283
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:37.200
So, unfortunately, Linda, with a Y is in for the killing zone.

284
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.200
I think that's incredible.

285
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:48.599
When the dalek comes up the window and just the lights flash and you know that they're saying exterminate because of the rhythm with which the lights flash.

286
00:19:48.720 --> 00:20:01.980
It's a great misdirection too for classic fans in that, you know, she's in that platform and you're expecting them to come through the door with a cutting device which we've seen numerous times in the classic series and that's what's happening.

287
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:14.759
But then just that moment when you see it in her eye, the close-up in her face, and then it's like, you're turning to behind her with the glass, that is just, you just know that's the end.

288
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:19.319
There's also a line in there about the glass being...

289
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:20.640
It's exoglass or something.

290
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:25.079
Like, take a like a meteor to break through that or something.

291
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.460
He says it's protected against meteors.

292
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:27.180
That's what he says.

293
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:31.259
Yeah, and that sells the power of the Daleks.

294
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:40.920
They are so powerful that this thing that's supposed to withstand meteor strike is just shattered by them.

295
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:48.720
And that sort of plays into the conception of the Daleks and the new series is being all powerful.

296
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:51.779
Yeah, completely invulnerable being.

297
00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:26.819
Besides Linda dying, we've then got Jack and the programmers and all the wannabe winner contestants or people staying on the station down on level 0, and it's really satisfying to see the winner of the weakest link, get exterminated.

298
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:34.140
We talked about this on a previous episode that Russell writes stories that are very vertical.

299
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.880
You know, there's always lifts in them and he makes it very clear what the Daleks are doing.

300
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.880
And their only reason to go down there.

301
00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:43.500
They don't need to go down there.

302
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:48.359
Remember they come in at floor 446 or whatever it is and they're going, they're going to go up.

303
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:51.180
That's the bit that's protected by the extrapolator's force field.

304
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:55.319
But the only reason they go down is because there's a bunch of people there that they can kill.

305
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:57.900
There's no strategic reason for it at all.

306
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:04.380
Just to show how evil they are. and just before she dies, Linda gets to hear that happening.

307
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.859
And it's in that scene and she is so effective.

308
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.039
Like she's so broken up by it.

309
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:16.799
And I think too, in the scene just before she dies, you can see her realising that she's about to die.

310
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.299
It's so well done.

311
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.900
She's really fantastic. really is.

312
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:22.500
Yeah.

313
00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.859
I shed no tears for Roderick's death at all.

314
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.019
You astound me.

315
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:43.259
He's all the bad bosses and the weak people we've always known, and that's the whole point of his moment or his arc, flat though it is, is to show us how people who don't have, anyway, in touch with the humanity, you could say.

316
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:48.720
We've already said that the world that's created by last week's episode is horrible.

317
00:22:48.779 --> 00:23:00.059
And it's sort of told in a slightly comic way because we've got all these sort of parodic versions of our favourite TV shows, but the world is horrifically appalling.

318
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:07.859
It's a terrible place and Roderick is the sort of person who wins in that world, you know, and so he's an ultimate winner.

319
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:09.299
Yeah, he's the winner in that world.

320
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.759
And so... every corporate success story.

321
00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:12.539
Yeah, exactly.

322
00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:25.980
It's really interesting that the doctor's influence on Jack inspires some of those people in that world to take a stand and to fight, the controllers, and also the girl who's the assistant director on the weakest link.

323
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.039
Yeah, she's the floor manager, I think, is the name, the right character.

324
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:29.880
Okay.

325
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.980
But she's not credited.

326
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:33.059
Oh, isn't she?

327
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:33.900
She's really good.

328
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:42.480
Yeah, they appear to have accidentally not credited her because she has a pretty main role in both his episodes, but she doesn't appear in the credit six.

329
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:50.460
I love that scene where she is firing bullets at the Daleks and they don't work, they're doing sort of bullet time and she says, you lied to me.

330
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.559
Did you notice what the bullets were on?

331
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:56.279
It's a revelation of the Daleks?

332
00:23:56.339 --> 00:24:00.299
Their bastic bullets invented by Eric Seward himself.

333
00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:05.819
Or the 1985 classic Revelation of the Diaries.

334
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.200
Yeah, Orsini uses them.

335
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:10.140
We see a Dalek get blown up by bastic bullets.

336
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.160
Not anymore.

337
00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:12.240
Really?

338
00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:13.319
Yeah, yeah.

339
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:14.819
How do I miss these things?

340
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:16.619
How am I missing these things?

341
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.240
Of course, the Delta Wave, it was the reference to Kinder.

342
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:23.579
When I blanked that out of my mind.

343
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.220
What did that do to Nissa's brain?

344
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:27.059
Yeah, yeah.

345
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:27.599
Fried it.

346
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:31.079
Exposed it to a huge amount of ancestine energy.

347
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:35.460
And save gin to your paycheque, probably.

348
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:36.599
That's it.

349
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:39.720
So the program has died.

350
00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:49.980
There's a nice moment between the ongoing little, will they go on a date dialogue between the male and female programmer, which I quite like through out both episodes?

351
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:50.279
Yeah.

352
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:54.779
Just to give them a bit of character and a bit of humour in the face of annihilation, I guess.

353
00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:04.619
And also to make her death more horrifying because there's someone who to mourn for, and in fact, their little exchange, which is super trope aware, isn't it?

354
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.240
Like, perhaps I should ask you.

355
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:07.380
Is that the title for this episode?

356
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.579
That's right.

357
00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:10.140
Perhaps I should ask you out.

358
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.420
You know, well, then tough.

359
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:16.259
I'm not going to go out with you and then they smile at each other and she winks.

360
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:20.640
Like it's a very sweet, very quickly sweet thing.

361
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.700
And she was someone, remember, the doctor yelled at her last episode.

362
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:36.660
One of my favourite lines last episode is where the doctor criticises the staff and she says, well, they're just doing their jobs and he says, well, with that sentence, you've just lost the right even to speak to me.

363
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:42.000
But she's humanised by then and her death's horrifying and so is the male controllers.

364
00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:43.859
It's almost fridging, isn't it?

365
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:48.539
She's horribly murdered and then it spurs him on to try and kill the Daleks and then he does as well.

366
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.079
Well, yeah, I mean, fridging is more about sort of long-term emotion.

367
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:53.339
Very brief reaching.

368
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:54.299
A free change.

369
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.920
It's an escape.

370
00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:56.819
It's an ice tray.

371
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:57.660
Yeah, that's right.

372
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:07.440
Around this time is one of my favourite moments in the episode, which is when the Daleks enter floor 495.

373
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:14.640
Somebody says, what's on 495, and then they come in, and I completely forgotten. and there's the Android taking on the Daleks.

374
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:25.079
I just love it when she tells them you are the weakest link and, you know, then the fact that she has to say, you are the weakest link before firing, gets her kick, well, gets her head blown off.

375
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:35.819
It is also just the incredible comedy world that was created in the beginning of Bad Wolf gets to have a little brief go at the Daleks before we sort of forget about it forever.

376
00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:37.920
So now you've brought up Bad Wolf.

377
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:47.519
Obviously, in the playground on Earth, the bad wolf thing appears everywhere and suddenly it's a message that is sent to Rose.

378
00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:48.960
Is that what she says, a message.

379
00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:53.460
And so this is the 1st time that it sort of, well, actually, no, it's mentioned before this, isn't it?

380
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.700
Because the doctor has a conversation with the emperor Dalek.

381
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:10.799
It's one of those things like last week where the 2 different plot strands are running in parallel and rose and the doctor both find out that bad wolf isn't what they thought it was at sort of roughly the same time in the episode.

382
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:17.880
I find it interesting because you've been led up to believe that it was something and now it suddenly changed.

383
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:19.140
What will it actually be?

384
00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:20.220
Yeah.

385
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:25.380
I think the bad wolf on the playground is incredibly cheap because it's clearly just done with chalk.

386
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:32.039
I really like that she's whispering into so many little kiddies ears, go on, do it.

387
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:35.519
Come on. throughout eternity.

388
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:38.039
She's actually been fostering tagging.

389
00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:41.519
She's the cause of it all, right from the beginning.

390
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:45.119
Banksy is actually Rose.

391
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.680
So Jack is exterminated.

392
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:54.839
The doctor's going to be exterminated.

393
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:59.940
For the 1st and only time. that I was actually sorry to see it happen.

394
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:02.759
Every subsequent time.

395
00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:07.680
It's the same with Barrowman, I've said it before when we were early, early on when we were doing the old podcast.

396
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:13.319
I only like him when he's in Doctor Who and the character only works for me when he's in Doctor Who.

397
00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:15.720
Soon as he jumps into torture or anything else.

398
00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:16.319
It's awful.

399
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.319
It's just too much cheese, as Mickey would say.

400
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:23.640
It's crotch from Maggio performance levels.

401
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:27.599
But in this, it's really poignant and lovely and really touching.

402
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:40.319
And the fact that it's just done as any great Kurosawa film does or the magnificent 7 or any great Western is this posited hero, this chief identifier for our morality just disappears in slidestone.

403
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:43.319
There's nothing else to it because that's what meaningless death is.

404
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:45.539
There's no ceremony, it's just wasteful.

405
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:50.880
Yeah, it's that sort of thing too, where they say exterminate and he says...

406
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.779
I kind of figured...

407
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.680
Yeah, kind of figured.

408
00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:55.140
Yes, and that's it, yeah. bang.

409
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.660
And then, of course, it turns out he was holding his breath all the time.

410
00:28:57.720 --> 00:28:58.559
The big cheat.

411
00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:01.619
Oh, that's something new I've discovered.

412
00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:04.680
That thing with the Daleks as well.

413
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:08.039
At this point, they're all pouring out of the spaceships and destroying the earth.

414
00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:12.420
In the most exciting way that we've only imagined that that should have happened since we were 4 years of age.

415
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.420
We've been living this moment in our little heads all this time.

416
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:21.180
Although I have to say that most of the destruction of the earth is realised by some sort of fairly low-res graphics.

417
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.299
Australia melts. doesn't it?

418
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:25.440
Yeah, they're all gone.

419
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.859
We have new continents back then, but they all look the same as the old continents.

420
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.279
Pacifica and Europa and stuff.

421
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:37.019
Is it like a 100 and something 1000 years, enough time for...

422
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.500
No, actually, maybe Maybe it's just political...

423
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.740
Yeah, the American Alliance and Pacifica and Australasia.

424
00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:45.900
They were going a bit all well with it, weren't they?

425
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:46.319
Yeah, yeah.

426
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:53.579
But that's what I was going to say about this story and why I liked it so much because Russell again has picked up in Bad Wolf and really cemented it with this one.

427
00:29:53.640 --> 00:30:03.960
The chief alternatives in British writing of the 20th century where you have industry, and it's always been dystopian because the Brits really get how awful society can be.

428
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:07.740
They always know that what they've got is quite thin and actually not that fun anyway.

429
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:09.059
So it's why I say, right?

430
00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:10.019
So, Brexit.

431
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:12.779
Exactly, which is why, well, yeah, I was going with it.

432
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:14.759
This is why they write such great dystopian fiction.

433
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:20.519
You've got all wall on one side saying it's militarised and conditioned and very programmed and obvious.

434
00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:30.660
Then you've got Huxley saying, no, no, no, it's going to be exactly like that, but you won't feel it because you'll be anaesthetized with sugary sweetness and affable vaporousness.

435
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.359
And that's exactly how we are living right now.

436
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:35.640
The Daleks of climate change.

437
00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:43.079
Well, Teresa May or whatever else you want to see it, but really they're just about the threat that none of us are admitting.

438
00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:48.180
Well, remember last episode, like the whole planet's atmosphere was destroyed.

439
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.440
You couldn't breathe outside.

440
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:51.839
There's smog storms and stuff like that.

441
00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:58.740
And I think that climate change was clearly sort of a living concern in 2005.

442
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:06.299
But obviously since then, the people in charge of scene reason and sorted it out once and for all 12 years later.

443
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:11.400
But yeah, I think the Dalek says climate change and having the Daleks come in and just destroy the world.

444
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:17.819
And the doctor doesn't really do anything about it and we never kind of hear about it again.

445
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:41.819
In fact, the only reference to it is in Pudsy Cutaway, which is the little red nose taste sketch that 1st introduces David Tennant to the world, as the doctor, where he says that Captain Jack is back on trying to rebuild human society or something like that, as if the doctor had locked him out of the Tartars, because he'd fallen in love with a Scottish rebel of some kind.

446
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:51.480
Oh, of course, I thought it was that Rose reversed all the incidents that had happened and removed the dialects from this moment of time and that none of that had ever happened.

447
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:53.099
Oh, okay, that's possible.

448
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:58.200
I always thought it was a sort of weird kind of loose end and a sort of strangely downbeat ending.

449
00:31:58.259 --> 00:31:59.640
I thought the same as you.

450
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:04.440
I just thought that she brought him back because she had a connection to him and could see that.

451
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.720
I didn't ever think that she'd.

452
00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:11.700
She got rid of the Daleks as they were then, not reversing everything that happened on earth.

453
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:17.099
But then, as you say, if she does do that, which is resuscitation, then they're all indestructible.

454
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:19.859
It's a planet of Captain Scarlet, so that doesn't happen.

455
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.599
We know that doesn't happen.

456
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.880
So yeah, what you're saying could be true.

457
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:25.259
So there is this point.

458
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.619
We know there are huge gaps in this Doctor Who universe of Russell's.

459
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.980
So in the next time we see the earth, it's the year 5 billion, isn't it?

460
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:33.059
Yeah, yeah.

461
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:39.839
So I think that he doesn't worry about that and doesn't let that stop him from telling the story that he wants to tell.

462
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:47.819
And I also think he's unleashing his inner cynic because, again, we've said this before on television, everything's lovely and marvellous.

463
00:32:47.880 --> 00:33:01.559
And, you know, he couldn't be more jovial and likeable, but there is a kind of deep vein of cynicism that runs through his writing in a really kind of upsetting way at times.

464
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:07.680
And so here he smashes the earth up as a sort of background to this story that he's trying to tell.

465
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:12.180
Yeah, it is bleak and it did seem like a loose end to me.

466
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:24.000
When I 1st watched this, uh, and he clearly thought it was a loose end because he made that remark about it in Pudsy Cutaway, which I am definitely calling it.

467
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.960
The official name for it was born again.

468
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:29.880
Yeah, that's crap.

469
00:33:38.940 --> 00:34:00.180
Dear Rose turns up to rescue the doctor, with the time vortex running through her head, and she has some superpowers to stop the Dalek rays, and she announces that she is the bad wolf and scatters herself messaged through time and space to send a message to herself.

470
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.259
So, what did we think of that at the time?

471
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.680
Because I thought it was crap.

472
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:08.639
Why?

473
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:11.219
I just hated it at the time.

474
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:12.059
I just went...

475
00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:13.320
To Deus X Makina?

476
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.659
Yes, she scatters this message.

477
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.820
She's this bad wolf message.

478
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:21.420
I just thought it was really weak and I just thought that's it.

479
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:28.320
I think that if Euripides does the Deus X Martin. then Russell T. Davies can.

480
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:30.960
It is definitely a Deus X marker.

481
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:33.239
I'm not sure that it makes sense.

482
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:36.000
And certainly in subsequent commentaries.

483
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:37.559
DVD commentaries.

484
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:50.940
There was a wonderful commentary on Forest of the Dead with David Tennant and Russell and Moffat, and I think they gently rib Russell for the bad wolf thing, because it doesn't quite work.

485
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:52.559
It's a little bit sort of formless.

486
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:54.480
And her suddenly going, it's a message.

487
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:57.000
Like, I'm not quite sure how she gets there.

488
00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:57.719
James?

489
00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:00.179
Yes, no, it's crap.

490
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.159
It is it's a crap day, sex mashing up.

491
00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:11.880
But it's also kind of fabulous because she's wearing all that gold body pain and she's quoting her own song lyrics.

492
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:13.800
What?

493
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:15.179
Okay. explain.

494
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:16.980
I see everything.

495
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:26.159
The sun, the moon, the day and night. night Oh, and I've got that album too, people, so I should know that song.

496
00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:28.079
It is actually a very good song.

497
00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:29.940
I might have to recommend it.

498
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:30.960
Remind me.

499
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:34.500
That's very, that's very clever of you, German.

500
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:42.179
I'm surprised you didn't notice That's the 1st thing I noticed when I was watching this episode in 2005 was, oh my god, it's a Billy Piper song.

501
00:35:42.239 --> 00:36:05.519
I've actually changed my tune on this over the years, and I think part of changing the tune is what happens in season 4 or whenever they refer back to the Bad Wolf, whether it be Bad Wolf Bay or that message that she sends in turn left, it suddenly has a big resonance and very emotional and very impactful.

502
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:10.619
So down the track, it's influenced me to actually quite like this.

503
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:16.619
Yes, it's a little bit, as you say, seems very rushed and that's it.

504
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:18.239
But I actually quite like it now.

505
00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:22.860
I absolutely don't object to that way of resolving the story because it's all been set up.

506
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:23.820
It all makes sense.

507
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:25.500
It has consequences.

508
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:26.579
It's really emotional.

509
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:27.900
I think it's wonderful.

510
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:29.400
And I think that scene is absolutely lovely.

511
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:37.739
The only bit I don't quite buy is that she gets the message that she can go back from Bad Wolf being written in chalk on that playground.

512
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.719
Why bad wolf, like, you know?

513
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:44.579
Oh, well, I mean, it is Bad Wolf because it's something linked to that time and place.

514
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.119
It's a message from Satellite 5 in that year.

515
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:52.320
You don't believe that she was actually the Rupert Murdoch all the time.

516
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:55.380
Yeah. created Bad Wolf TV.

517
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.480
Wolf Media Enterprises.

518
00:36:57.539 --> 00:37:02.400
No, I actually think that she gets the word from them and then scatters it through the rest of the series.

519
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:12.840
And the other thing that I think is good is it's the 1st time we very definitely get things happening and having consequences earlier in the show.

520
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:24.239
And we're about to have that in series 3 where the master dematerialises in episode 11 and rematerializes in an earlier Christmas special.

521
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:26.760
And I think that's amazing.

522
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.860
Like, I think that's absolutely incredible.

523
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:33.179
So he's definitely had a 2nd go at this idea and done it a bit better.

524
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.619
But I think this is still pretty good.

525
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:42.239
And then Moffatt will do it constantly. yeah Well, I was going to say that Russell's playing the long game with that one.

526
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:43.679
But I won't.

527
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.059
So she saves the day.

528
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:52.139
And then she needs a doctor to kiss her.

529
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:55.079
So that all the new fans will be satisfied.

530
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:58.619
And the old might not tongue out.

531
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.039
We forgot the other kiss.

532
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:06.840
Oh, Captain Jack saying goodbye to Rose and the doctor.

533
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:15.659
Barriman made sure when filming that scene that he kissed them exactly the same.

534
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:21.659
Yeah, to show that this is an enlightened guy from the future who doesn't have hang-ups like we do now.

535
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:26.820
There's also a great story about that where like when he kissed Eccleston.

536
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.460
There was one take where he just didn't stop.

537
00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:34.199
And he just keeps snocking his face off until they fall, fall in a heap on the floor.

538
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.880
Where they laughing?

539
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:40.980
Well, it's good to know that Chris was having a fun time on the set.

540
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:43.500
For at least a moment anyway.

541
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:44.579
Yeah.

542
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.380
No, he had everyone together.

543
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.119
They were doing a bit of a pert we for him.

544
00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:49.260
So his favourite director.

545
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.539
The people around him that he liked.

546
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.900
I know that people would have worked well with him and wished him the very best.

547
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:56.219
He did a beautiful job for everyone.

548
00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:58.260
And he worked damn hard on this.

549
00:38:58.320 --> 00:38:59.280
He really cared.

550
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:05.760
He's a perfectionist and perfectionists are the 1st people to feel downtrodden and hurt and affronted.

551
00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:09.420
Because those levels, you never really reach them.

552
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:12.360
But he has moments where he pretty much does.

553
00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:13.440
He actually really does.

554
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:14.219
Yeah.

555
00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:14.579
Oh, no.

556
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:20.400
I think he's incredible More of this in our Eccleston retrospective, which will just be lousy with panegyric, I think.

557
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:22.679
Yes, I'll take two.

558
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:23.159
Thank you.

559
00:39:23.219 --> 00:39:24.599
And a scotch.

560
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:33.420
So the doctor does kiss Rose in order to extract the time vortex from her head and just because he loves her as well.

561
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.340
Really?

562
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:36.719
Yes, absolutely.

563
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:38.699
I hate, you know, there's that.

564
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:44.940
Well, in fact, the doctor is a time lord from the planet Gallifray and the constellation of Consurberus and they don't kiss.

565
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.519
They just squeeze one another's left elbows.

566
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:51.179
And this is purely for a science fiction reason.

567
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:52.199
It's a kiss.

568
00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.900
So even if there's a science fiction reason for it.

569
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.760
It's a kiss. you know.

570
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.420
And so he loves her and she's done all of this stuff.

571
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.119
She's nearly sacrificed her life to save him.

572
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:07.980
Not to save the world because they don't manage to do that, but to save him.

573
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:10.500
I feel like a naughty schoolboy thing.

574
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.699
Yes, I'm telling you off.

575
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.739
It's definitely a kiss.

576
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.079
They're in love. and they're kissing as well.

577
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:19.440
I just like to say that I'd actually don't believe that at all.

578
00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:21.000
And I don't, it doesn't sit well with me.

579
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:22.019
They shouldn't be kissing ever.

580
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.440
Isaac just sucking her golden essence out.

581
00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:29.820
You've said this before, Richard, I think.

582
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.800
It is don't snog the companions.

583
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:32.519
It's yucky.

584
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.179
I don't know if it's simply, to quote our Nathan.

585
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.340
It's not lampshading the telly movie.

586
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:42.300
Or did it Russell feel, I have to acknowledge this is what television is now.

587
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.500
We have intimacy.

588
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:47.400
We can't have Dr. Magnus Pike in space anymore.

589
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:52.440
There actually has to be, you know, a dental hygiene and a willingness to engage.

590
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.480
He's not a new to public schoolboy.

591
00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:55.920
No, we haven't got Matt Smith.

592
00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:56.639
No, that's right.

593
00:40:56.699 --> 00:41:04.139
But also, you know, he loves Rose. that doesn't mean that they're going to shag or anything like that, but it means that he really loves her.

594
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:12.420
And so kissing her is an expression of his love for her as much as it is about sucking out her golden juicy essence.

595
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:14.579
God, you can't keep that.

596
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.440
You said it.

597
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.380
Yours was worse. juicy essence.

598
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:24.420
Richard, Richard, Richard, I'm ignoring this listeners.

599
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:27.420
Richard, does it sit well with you or not?

600
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.400
The Kissy Facey.

601
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:35.400
I'm trying to picture anyone upfront mouth snogging Billy Hartnall when they're saying goodbye.

602
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.480
Can I just can't see it happening?

603
00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:43.320
No, it really doesn't because I think, although it does work in this and I'm completely fine with it.

604
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:48.719
But if we're looking at it from a wider angle, it's he's 900 years old.

605
00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:50.699
She's supposed to be 19.

606
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:52.440
Yeah, but what is age?

607
00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:56.579
What is age, but where you are in your body right now and the amount of hormones you've got.

608
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:57.840
So his body's not that old.

609
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:02.940
We're not suggesting that Captain Jack kissed the doctor for science fiction reasons.

610
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.039
He kissed him goodbye.

611
00:42:05.099 --> 00:42:14.460
And so the kiss doesn't have to mean we're snogging, but, you know, he doesn't do a Vulcan mind meld and put his fingers on her temples.

612
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:16.260
You know what does actually kiss her?

613
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.519
Yeah, and you're right.

614
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:21.900
You know why it works because Eccles has been given an arc and he's worked beautifully with it.

615
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:28.139
There is no way the Doctor of Rose would have done anything, even holding a hand was award's a bit out there for him.

616
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:28.679
It was.

617
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:32.280
It was, and that was really one of the 1st tactile moments.

618
00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:43.920
You've seen, okay, Nicola and Colin were always trying to infuse humanity into a relationship that didn't really seem to have very much ridden into it at all, but they were trying to do that sort of thing, certainly by mysterious planet.

619
00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:49.019
That was really quite lovely and jolly because they knew the characters if it's going to work.

620
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.559
There has to be some connection that the audience can also enjoy.

621
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:56.460
But Eccles did it really beautifully coming out of, we know, he's a war hero.

622
00:42:56.519 --> 00:43:02.280
What he is, is a lot of lads in the UK as well, but coming back from a war zone.

623
00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:05.280
Now the British had troops stationed overseas and always have done.

624
00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:06.840
He's in Afghanistan.

625
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:09.659
He is...

626
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.420
Martin Freeman of our show. by any other ways.

627
00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:14.219
He's suffering from PTSD.

628
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:15.119
Yeah, he definitely is.

629
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:16.320
Definitely is.

630
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:20.099
I just wanted to say, like, with the kiss thing.

631
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:23.099
I have a lot of baggage from Classic Who?

632
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:24.300
Because that's what I'm used to.

633
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:28.619
And so I was never comfortable with the kissing in the telly movie.

634
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.000
Oh, it was awful.

635
00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:32.699
But I do buy it here.

636
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:36.960
I don't like necessarily seeing it often. but I'm okay with it.

637
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:38.280
I just like to clarify that.

638
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:44.940
Even though I was berated, like, for that point, Nathan.

639
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:48.300
I don't mind it.

640
00:43:48.420 --> 00:43:59.340
I do find it really interesting that he seems to have the vortex in him for like all of 3 seconds compared to how long it runs through Billy.

641
00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:04.320
And she seems to come out of it completely fine, but he doesn't.

642
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:08.760
Maybe it's because he has to return it out of an essence.

643
00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:10.980
I don't know. sticky wickets here, isn't it?

644
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:15.179
But I do just have a problem with how short he contains it for.

645
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:16.380
I just wanted to see...

646
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:18.539
Oh, he's a bloke from the north, you know, they don't muck around.

647
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:31.199
So the Dalek emperor asks him whether he is a coward or a killer.

648
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:38.159
And then we have, I think, possibly a defining moment for Christopher Equiston as the doctor.

649
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:39.960
He gets a redo.

650
00:44:40.019 --> 00:44:53.519
He's put in a position that's identical with the position that we assume that he was in in the time war, where he got to press a button to destroy the Daleks and his own people, and the decision that he made was to do that.

651
00:44:53.699 --> 00:45:01.440
And he has learned since then, and he gets the chance to reenact it, that that wasn't what he should have done.

652
00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:03.420
It's so important.

653
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:14.940
Yeah, I think this, even before day of the doctor, we've had a reenactment of that crucial moment in the time war, and we get it here, and his decision is different.

654
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:15.659
Yeah.

655
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:16.980
Yeah.

656
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:20.280
Nicely put, Nathan. because he's going to wipe out the entire world, isn't he?

657
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:24.960
There's not enough time to calibrate or whatever, the Delta wave thing.

658
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:26.460
So that's his choice.

659
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:27.840
Hail the doctor.

660
00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:29.099
The great exterminator.

661
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:50.460
Yeah, well, we've already seen our friend the Dalek from Dalek, our eponymous Dalek, accuse the doctor of being like a Dalek, and now we get the emperor doing the same thing, and he realises that his decision to destroy his home planet, and all of the Daleks was the wrong one, that he can't do that.

662
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:56.099
Even if it needs to be done, even if morally speaking, it's the right decision.

663
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:05.519
It's such a morally toxic thing to do beyond the utilitarian argument is another argument about whether you're going to be the agent of that or not.

664
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:13.440
I actually think, though, that it does suffer a bit from being rather undramatically directed and scored. don't know that it is.

665
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:15.960
It certainly still strikes the heartstrings.

666
00:46:16.019 --> 00:46:29.760
I was watching it again today after so many years thinking, yeah, I would have done it, and I would have taken on that karmic backlodge and, you know, paid for it seeing how many lives hens, because it was the right thing to do.

667
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:35.579
We're not saying the comics is of these 2 episodes, like the doctor's already given a gun back earlier.

668
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:40.980
And so here again, it's showcasing that he's not willing just to take life for the sake of taking life.

669
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.539
But it's not fresh for him.

670
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:43.500
He's already done that.

671
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:47.159
Yes, he's done that before. he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake.

672
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:48.059
I think that's it.

673
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:49.559
He can only bring himself to do it once.

674
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:51.840
This is a Buddhist parable.

675
00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:52.860
We ever mention that before.

676
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:58.440
It's not a trolly problem because there's more than sort of consequentialism in the sort of moral calculus.

677
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:03.239
It is kind of the wrong thing to do because of what it will do to you because of the kind of person you become.

678
00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:04.920
This is the point and that's the beauty of it.

679
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:12.420
He says, I'm willing to take on the great pain of the rest of the world and be worse than everyone because it will ultimately spare.

680
00:47:12.539 --> 00:47:17.460
Look how far he's grown from being Tom from that 4th doctor you said.

681
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:24.059
I can't put these fuse wise together because, you know, it's a couple of fuse wires. and yes, all of that sort of thing.

682
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:32.699
Well, you've actually faced your moral responsibility, which is, yes, your ego is not bigger than this situation and you actually do have to sublimate yourself.

683
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.380
Like, I don't think that the story wants to come down on a particular side or anything.

684
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.139
Do we applaud him for doing it or is he actually just copying out?

685
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:41.460
Is he doing another top?

686
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:49.500
Is he doing another Tom and he's actually learnt nothing because his moral duty was to protect these people from this future?

687
00:47:49.739 --> 00:47:53.940
So in fact, he's simply gone back. oh he's wasted 5 lines.

688
00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:57.780
But it's one of these things where there isn't a right decision.

689
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:02.099
When he destroys Galafray, he decides one way and becomes a mass murderer.

690
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.360
He just listened to your podcast.

691
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:04.980
He said what you think about Gallifrey.

692
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:06.119
All those sofas.

693
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:13.559
And then he gets to make the decision again, and again, it's the wrong decision because he just leaves Earth to be destroyed and who knows what's going to happen well.

694
00:48:13.619 --> 00:48:20.880
In fact, Rose, much like Garmin before her comes in and, you know, takes the need for the decision away.

695
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:29.940
And it's only in Moffat's era where he gets to kind of Kobayashi Maru that dilemma and find a 3rd cheat way out of it.

696
00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:34.860
But I like that that becomes live.

697
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:40.320
We don't get to see the doctor in the time war, but we do get to see him confronted with that same decision.

698
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:59.460
And so did, since that brings us to the end moments in the TARDIS with Christopher and Billy and the whole regeneration, which has come about because Christopher is not continuing on to a 2nd series.

699
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:05.159
This time when I was watching it, I was acutely aware that they didn't seem to be in the room together.

700
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:08.039
Were they not in the room together at all?

701
00:49:08.099 --> 00:49:10.679
Tenant's definitely not in the room with Billy.

702
00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:17.039
I knew that, but I thought that they were both in that console room together.

703
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:37.019
So I think they are in the same shot initially she wakes up, but that whole conversation where they're speaking to one another across the TARDIS and they're in completely separate shots, whether they're not there in the same room or whether a Hearn is directing it so that it's not jarring when suddenly her and Tennant aren't in the room together.

704
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:40.619
I don't know, but it did look a bit jarring, I think.

705
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.039
They wrote an alternative version of that scene.

706
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:50.820
As a red herring to try and keep people off the scent that Eccleston was leaving.

707
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.639
How did that work out?

708
00:49:53.699 --> 00:49:54.420
Whoops.

709
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:59.639
Um, where they actually head off to Barcelona.

710
00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:11.940
There's no regeneration and the closing of the whole series was supposed to be, the TARDIS having scanned Rose and a little message coming up saying life form dying.

711
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:26.639
What you were saying before about the time vortex not damaging her, but killing him, Russell turned that on his head in the scene that they filmed or were going to film to release on the on the press tapes.

712
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:26.940
Right.

713
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:33.179
Like was actually dealing with the fact that, well, no, it would kill her.

714
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:38.460
I actually didn't know whether they would get to do a proper regeneration scene.

715
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:51.239
I didn't know whether it would be like Colin saying carrot juice, carrot juice, carrot juice, and then we would just turn up the next season with a new doctor because there was kind of no way of knowing what the production was like.

716
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:53.579
Clarence of Salford kiss on the console.

717
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:58.320
He was poisoned by carrot juice in an exercise bike.

718
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:08.280
You know, I didn't know how whether his resignation had been a surprise, whether it had been announced after the series was in the can or what.

719
00:51:08.340 --> 00:51:10.019
You know, there was kind of no way of knowing.

720
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:17.940
And so I was watching this and I remember being hugely delighted that we did seem to be getting a regeneration scene.

721
00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:28.739
In the series Bible, Russell says that there's no need to introduce the idea of regeneration because he doesn't anticipate that he's going to be changing cast every year.

722
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:34.800
But I think it does a pretty good job of kind of selling it to viewers.

723
00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:48.119
But can you imagine being a new series fan, and then he's suddenly just talking about the fact that all his cells in his body are dying and he has his little trick, and then it all hell blakes loose with that explosion.

724
00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:50.219
Like you'd be going, what the hell is going on?

725
00:51:50.219 --> 00:51:51.360
And then there's another person there.

726
00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:57.960
I liked it back in the good old days where they would just recast the doctor and not really tell you why.

727
00:51:58.139 --> 00:52:06.539
And I think ever since they explained it 1st in the war games and then again in Planet of the Spiders, the whole thing, kind of lost its mystery.

728
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:11.280
I'd prefer to think of the doctor as someone who just gets recast every 3 years or so.

729
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:17.400
But I think he does kind of a deaf job of introducing that whole concept of regeneration.

730
00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:22.380
And I look forward to a future time where, you know, the doctor is a generated and he has no head.

731
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:24.780
Oh, that's right.

732
00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:26.639
Or no nose or something.

733
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:28.619
No, that's the dogs on Barcelona.

734
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:30.539
I'm getting confused again.

735
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:42.300
Yeah, no, like that whole dialogue is, I think sells it well and Christopher was always going to get to say the word fantastic a number of times right there at the end.

736
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:44.099
It's his catchphrase.

737
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:55.739
In fact, that was one of the things that I thought I would most miss when Tenant took over because I loved the fact that the doctor thought everything was fantastic and I thought that they wouldn't survive into Tenant.

738
00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:04.079
And I think an original draft of the Christmas invasion had a thread where he kept trying to say fantastic at not being very good at eventually dropping.

739
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:06.179
It didn't work until this came out. right.

740
00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:08.400
There we go.

741
00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:10.019
Christopher's gone.

742
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:12.059
David's there with a bit of dialogue.

743
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:16.019
We'll find out what we think of the new guy. in a few commentaries.

744
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.900
I think his catchphrase is going to be Barcelona.

745
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:20.400
It's going to be new teeth.

746
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:21.780
That's weird.

747
00:53:32.099 --> 00:53:39.300
It's time for pix of the week, and I'm going to let other people go first so that I have time to think of one.

748
00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:51.420
So my pick of the week on the Time War Dalek theme is series 6 of the Big Finish Gala Phrase series.

749
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.119
I really like Galafre.

750
00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:57.420
It's kind of, it's Gary Russell's own little project.

751
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:57.960
That's why.

752
00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:01.860
Yeah, it's Gary, Gary all over it. doing the original House of Cards.

753
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.659
But in space and time.

754
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:05.699
And frogs.

755
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:14.460
They're really sort of fun and twisty and turny and, you know, it's Lala Ward and Louise Jameson, for God's sake.

756
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:17.039
It's always good, even if it's crap.

757
00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:26.519
Um, but that ties into in a big way ties into the time war and how it started.

758
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:30.059
But I can't say any more than that because it'll ruin it for you.

759
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:34.079
I look forward to listening to those sometime in 2043.

760
00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:59.519
My pick of the week is for classic series, fans, or for new series fans who'd like to go back and visit the classic series, but when the Daleks were Daleks and had great dialogue between them and weren't ruled by Davros and the doctor had a friend who made a new friend on the planet Excelon, so my pick of the week is the John Perchby classic Death to the Daleks, go and enjoy.

761
00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:01.079
Oh, that's the 1st one I ever saw.

762
00:55:01.139 --> 00:55:02.159
Richard?

763
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:12.480
Oh, well, mine, I've already mentioned it's Marina Warner's writing if you want to look at what comes before this, and if you really like to look at, you know, the stuff that goes underneath.

764
00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:13.980
She's written some really good ones.

765
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:14.820
Signs and wonders.

766
00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:15.539
I really liked.

767
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.820
Oh, what else?

768
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:19.440
Really good ones if you want to look at how.

769
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:24.719
Why people write this way and what's underneath it and where it's all coming from?

770
00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:33.179
So, um, no go the bogeyman is one of my favourites and it's about male dark archetypes in fiction and mythology.

771
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.820
But then monuments and maintenance is the feminine one.

772
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.320
I just go to her for any of the ones.

773
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.880
The overarching ones.

774
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:40.079
The lost father's really good.

775
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:41.820
Yeah, take that, George Lucas.

776
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:45.119
The myths of our time, a loan of all her sex.

777
00:55:45.659 --> 00:55:46.440
There's signs and wonders.

778
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:47.639
I go and look at signs and wonders.

779
00:55:47.699 --> 00:55:51.780
Just if you want to do further reading or just listen to Big Finish, you don't have to work that home.

780
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:55.079
Oh, I've just realised, my other pick of the week.

781
00:55:55.139 --> 00:56:04.800
Must be Billy Piper's day and night album, where you can listen to all of the lyrics, to all of the songs and see where they fit into series one and 2 of Doctor.

782
00:56:04.860 --> 00:56:05.340
Do they really?

783
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.199
Do they really though?

784
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:07.980
If you want to.

785
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:15.780
It's a little known fact that Russell T. Davis actually based Bad Wolf in the Parting of the Ways on that album.

786
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:25.920
All right, so my one is a complete cheat, and it's also an opportunity to make up for how mean I am to James all the time.

787
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:28.619
We have a new Doctor Who flash cast.

788
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:30.659
It's called Jody Inter Terra.

789
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:44.280
And what we do is we just Skype in, like proper podcasting professionals every week for sort of about 20 minutes and talk about our sort of hot takes, our 1st impressions of series 11.

790
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:52.800
James has designed a spectacular website for us and a logo, which I am hugely, hugely delighted by.

791
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:57.840
And any 2nd now, I'm going to make him edit it all from now on.

792
00:56:58.619 --> 00:57:06.659
But James and James's husband, Jason and Richard and a few others are kind of the motive force behind us doing that.

793
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:15.840
The alternative would have been us reaching series 11 at some time in 2023, by which time we would be doing it underwater in scuba gear.

794
00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:17.820
That's it.

795
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.159
It was mainly to get us, well, me out of the house.

796
00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:21.719
That's it.

797
00:57:21.780 --> 00:57:25.380
This is why he's constantly suggesting podcast projects, you see.

798
00:57:25.500 --> 00:57:28.500
We were going to call that one the underweening menace.

799
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.679
Overweening the underwhelming man.

800
00:57:31.739 --> 00:57:31.980
Yes.

801
00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:38.940
So that's it, Jodieintaterterra.com and Apple Podcasts and stuff like that.

802
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:42.480
I'm sad he's gone.

803
00:57:42.539 --> 00:57:43.500
Yeah.

804
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:51.420
Well, we've got one more episode and we'll certainly be going on about how great he was because he really was.

805
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:56.039
That is a massively special year, I think. certainly for me.

806
00:57:56.099 --> 00:58:02.760
And I look forward to telling Todd who from that season I would snog marry or avoid.

807
00:58:29.940 --> 00:58:34.860
Weldy listener, that's all the time, an emotional energy that we have this week.

808
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:38.639
We'll be back next time for our Christopher Eccleston Retrospective.

809
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:46.920
In the meantime, you can find us at Flightthrough Entirety.com, Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FT podcast on Twitter.

810
00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:54.239
Over on Bondfinger, you can find highly expert and deeply considered commentaries on every film in the James Bond franchise.

811
00:58:54.300 --> 00:59:02.039
That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. casino royale.infinitum.

812
00:59:02.099 --> 00:59:04.440
Any number of versions of that.

813
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:10.320
Until next time, may your next holiday in Barcelona be as hilarious as the doctor makes it sound.

814
00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:12.480
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

815
00:59:12.539 --> 00:59:13.500
See you soon.

816
00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:13.980
Good night.

817
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:15.000
How does he smell?

818
00:59:19.619 --> 00:59:25.320
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, James Hellwood, and Richard Stone.

819
00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:29.219
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane Orberg.

820
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:36.179
This episode, fostering tagging, was recorded on the 14th of October 2018, and released on the 18th of November.

821
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:48.659
To counteract our relentless positivity over the past few weeks, I'll now be travelling backward in time to scatter the word tiresome throughout the last 13 episodes.

822
00:59:48.780 --> 00:59:50.519
I hope you enjoy it.

823
00:59:53.579 --> 00:59:55.019
So interesting titbit.

824
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:58.260
I wish we can probably use the tag.

825
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:06.420
Um, so, um, In, in Harry Potter and the goblet of Fire.

826
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:19.199
The character and the character of Buddy Crouch Jr. is like has his soul sucked out by a mentor in a chapter called The Parting of the Way.

827
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:21.599
Oh, spooky.

828
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:23.880
Is Spider Crab Jr. played by David Tenon?

829
01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:24.599
Yeah, yeah.

830
01:00:24.659 --> 01:00:25.380
There you go.

831
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:27.420
Introducing David Tennant as the doctor.

832
01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:30.059
What year did that film and book come out?

833
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:31.139
The book was 2000.

834
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:34.139
The film came out after Doctor Who.

835
01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:36.599
Yeah, but the book was out.

836
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:38.519
By that point, I think.

837
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:39.719
But hang on.

838
01:00:39.780 --> 01:00:43.320
Parting of the ways, Buddy Crouch being tenant.

839
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:45.480
No, it's a coincidence.

840
01:00:45.539 --> 01:00:47.099
No, it's a total coincidence.

841
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.420
It's not a deliberate reference.

842
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.159
It's just, it's just a coincidence.

843
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:53.400
No, J.K. Rowling scattered it back through time.

844
01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:55.860
Oh, shit.

845
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:56.280
Good honest.

846
01:00:56.340 --> 01:00:59.340
She was the golden suck facing essence all the time.

847
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:06.420
It's interesting, Nathan, that you just said, um, Introducing David Tennant as the doctor.

848
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:19.019
Well, actually introducing David Hennant as Doctor Who. is in the credits and is the final time that I think he's referenced as Doctor Who because didn't David say that he's actually the doctor?

849
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:20.519
Yeah, big fanboy.

850
01:01:20.579 --> 01:01:25.320
I don't agree with that because he was Doctor Who for the 1st 18 years and should remain Doctor Who.

851
01:01:25.380 --> 01:01:27.420
I love the fact when it came back, it was Doctor Who.

852
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:29.159
It's not called The Doctor, is it?

853
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:33.119
I think I recall you at the time.

854
01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:39.719
Todd, saying, saying, well, it went to crap when they drop Stock 2 from the end titles.

855
01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:41.340
It's going to be cancelled.

856
01:01:41.579 --> 01:01:44.159
Well, that still could happen.

857
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:45.239
Good next listeners.

858
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:48.059
But there we go.

859
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:49.800
All right.