WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:39:03 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.539 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety 2 00:00:39.539 --> 00:00:43.439 the only Doctor Who podcast that has decided to quit Doctor Who 3 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:44.159 completely. 4 00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:48.359 Do a series of commentary podcasts on Thor 2 and then spend a long 5 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:50.340 period in complete obscurity. 6 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:51.359 I'm Nathan. 7 00:00:51.420 --> 00:00:52.439 I'm Todd. 8 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:53.280 I'm James. 9 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:54.780 I'm Richard for today. 10 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:57.240 That's a revelation. 11 00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:01.140 We've reached the end of the 1st series of New Who, so it's time 12 00:01:01.140 --> 00:01:05.159 to sit down, take stock and work out what valuable life lessons we 13 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:07.319 learned from the Christopher Eccleston era. 14 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:09.599 Take it away, Chancellor Flavia. 15 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:36.900 Hello, listeners, and welcome to our Christopher Eggleston 16 00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:40.500 Retrospective for his one season in the role. 17 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:43.260 Well, let's begin with some of the hard hitting questions. 18 00:01:44.459 --> 00:01:49.620 So Nathan, knowing that Bad Wolf is your favourite episode of the 19 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:54.480 season, Snog, marry a void, stars in their eyes, call my bluff 20 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:55.140 bear with me. 21 00:01:55.260 --> 00:01:59.879 Okay, I'm totally snocking bear with me for some definition of the 22 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:01.200 word bear, I think, probably. 23 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:05.219 Is that when they revive at Lizabethan Theatre and just throw you 24 00:02:05.219 --> 00:02:07.560 into a bear pit with live crushing bears? 25 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:10.139 No, that's the one where they don't they have a bath with a bear? 26 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:11.580 Yeah, the bear gets in the bath. 27 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:12.599 It's the best bit. 28 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.080 And then stars in your eyes. 29 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:16.919 We've all been there. 30 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:17.639 Yeah. 31 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:19.919 I'm keen to avoid stars in their eyes. 32 00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:21.060 I think that sounds terrible. 33 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:22.979 And call my bluff. 34 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:23.580 Was that the other one? 35 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:24.419 With real guns? 36 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:25.020 Yep. 37 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:26.580 I'm going to I'm marrying that. 38 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:27.780 Oh excellent. 39 00:02:27.900 --> 00:02:32.340 It means you married Dennis Norden and the lovely, what was the 40 00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:35.099 other lovely fella with the gruffly moustache and all the rest of 41 00:02:35.099 --> 00:02:35.219 it? 42 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:37.259 Anyway, it's a very long time ago. 43 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.500 Frank Muir, Frank Muir, and Dennis Norden, who were doing call my 44 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:41.879 bluff back in the 50s. 45 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.520 But that was just a nod for us fan folk. 46 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:46.020 Who are a 1000000 years old? 47 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:46.740 Yeah. 48 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.039 Coming back to this 14 years later, What's the thing that stood 49 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:01.800 out for you for this entire series? 50 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:05.580 This is a terribly nerdy story, but I'm going to tell it anyway. 51 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:12.240 Someone at work in 2005 said to me, you look really happy. 52 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.460 And I said, it's because Doctor Who's back on. 53 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:22.259 And this series made me incredibly happy because not only did it 54 00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:25.439 come back, but it was really good. 55 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:30.180 And you look at it now and it does look sort of cheap in places 56 00:03:30.180 --> 00:03:33.000 but it is so tremendously great. 57 00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:36.479 And I guess that's what I've been thinking over the past 13 58 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:37.139 episodes. 59 00:03:37.379 --> 00:03:39.060 Richard? 60 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.780 My only take, and I've said it before, is it really shows with a 61 00:03:42.780 --> 00:03:46.800 drama, this complex that you need 18 months of script 62 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.280 development. 63 00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:51.539 I didn't even, not even talking about design or casting or 64 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:54.719 whatever the directors, you know, then do with the scripts, but 65 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:56.460 each time we've had a hiatus. 66 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.439 And you look at other big shows that are done. 67 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:03.060 This rapid turnover, as they've seen with modern television. 68 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:07.680 We saw how much they got away with and what was acceptable in the 69 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:11.460 70s and the early 80s with rapid turnover, but I now stop and 70 00:04:11.460 --> 00:04:15.719 think of this as seeing just how well-developed the scripts are 71 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:19.199 and that the time for everyone to know what they're doing and know 72 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:20.819 their parts and work with it really well. 73 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:24.660 And I look at the 70s and the 80s and think, It wasn't actually 74 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:26.819 maybe just a matter of budget. 75 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:31.079 Imagine what they would have been able to do if they had another 6 76 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.240 months between seasons back in the day. 77 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:34.740 At a 13 episode season. 78 00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:36.060 Wouldn't it have been interesting? 79 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.759 I think we would have had a much better quality for all these 80 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:39.060 years. 81 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.399 Counterpoint season 22. 82 00:04:42.420 --> 00:04:44.459 Oh, nice. 83 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:46.740 And season 23, you know, but... 84 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:49.079 But they were also, you had to see one. 85 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:50.160 Yeah, yeah. 86 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:50.579 Yeah. 87 00:04:50.579 --> 00:04:52.620 Right. going there. 88 00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:55.740 James, coming back to this. 89 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:02.759 I am not this huge a fan of Eccleston as Nathan, but why not? 90 00:05:02.819 --> 00:05:03.420 That's interesting. 91 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:07.319 I think it's more a case if I just preferred tenant. 92 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:11.759 I know that doesn't sit well with Richard, look at his face. dear 93 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:12.240 listener. 94 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:19.560 But I think it's, yeah, look, I mean, I was surprised how much I 95 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:24.180 enjoyed it rewatching it for the podcast because I didn't have as 96 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:25.319 fond a memory. 97 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:30.240 I kind of, I think I got caught up in the, you know, him quitting 98 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.939 after a year or after an episode. 99 00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:39.720 And all of that and kind of maybe was a little bitter, you know 100 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.620 because... 101 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:42.240 That was exactly the temperature at the time. 102 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.279 I enjoyed his portrayal, but I was kind of, you know, why couldn't 103 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:47.759 we have more? 104 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:53.879 If we'd had another season, we had, like he, he was having 105 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:58.319 teething problems and it's not until, say, the doctor dances that 106 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.160 you kind of go, well, I think we've said this, well, at least you 107 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:05.519 and Brendan and Richard have said this in those episodes that 108 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:10.259 that's where he really feels like he's getting the role. 109 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:13.920 But it's like any doctor coming in. 110 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:16.379 There's always a shakedown period where they're trying things out 111 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:18.959 and then they sort of, there's a moment where they completely 112 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.040 click and from that moment on, there's there's no dull beats, you 113 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:23.399 know? 114 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:23.819 Yeah. 115 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:27.120 And I certainly think around that time, that two-parter onwards. 116 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:28.379 It certainly very clear. 117 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:33.720 And I think that's, that's, it's all coloured by that. 118 00:06:33.779 --> 00:06:39.540 But having rewatched and knowing what's coming, um, and looking at 119 00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:43.740 it through eyes that probably hadn't seen those episodes for maybe 120 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:49.199 5 or 6 years, I really appreciated him in a way that I hadn't 121 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:49.379 before. 122 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:54.720 That's something that I've taken out of this is how much I've 123 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.079 appreciated his portrayal as the doctor and what he's actually 124 00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:58.620 doing. 125 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.920 I think for me, the biggest revelations is how consistent this 126 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.339 season is in terms of script, which goes back to what you were 127 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:05.579 saying. 128 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:09.000 Tone and variants as well. 129 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:11.399 It's a very modulated symphonic piece. 130 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:15.180 There's not an episode that I wouldn't go back and rewatch, whereas 131 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:18.240 I can't say that for every other season, necessarily, of the new 132 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:18.660 series. 133 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:22.980 And of course, the other big revelation for me was the dialogue in 134 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:25.620 Bad Wolf, which I'd forgotten like over a 3rd of it. 135 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:28.740 I thought I was coming back to a brand new re-edit of the 136 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:29.040 episode. 137 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:32.699 So that was, I was just there going, what's happened to my brain? 138 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:36.000 And also the other thing is the special effects. 139 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:38.579 I think they do look more dated now and a bit more ropey. 140 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.860 There's still some spectacular ones. 141 00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:44.699 Not saying that there isn't, but I was surprised at certain times 142 00:07:44.699 --> 00:07:47.339 where I kind of thought, oh, I thought it would hold up better or 143 00:07:47.339 --> 00:07:48.779 I thought it was better at the time. 144 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:52.500 Well, it was great at the time, but I just suddenly went, it's 145 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:55.079 aged a bit compared to what's happening now, bit more than I 146 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:55.259 thought. 147 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.439 It's that thing when you teach kids and they talk about Doctor Who 148 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.079 back in the old days when the effects were crappy and you realised 149 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:04.800 they're talking about series one. you know, rather than the 150 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:05.699 1960s. 151 00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:08.160 I just want to vomit. 152 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.920 But what are the ropey effects if we're already there? 153 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:14.579 I think that there are some really poorly directed moments with 154 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:16.319 the Savine in World War III. 155 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:18.660 I think that they're really quite bad. 156 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:20.579 Who was the director on that one? 157 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:21.180 Keith Boke. 158 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:22.500 We've mentioned him a bunch of young. 159 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:24.899 Chi fans in the end of the world. 160 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:29.339 I think, yeah, those aren't convincing, but I think that I think 161 00:08:29.339 --> 00:08:31.439 the idea that the special effects are trying to present a 162 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.419 convincing version of reality is wrongheaded. 163 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.159 They're trying to be impressive special effects. 164 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:38.220 We're talking about direction, though, here, because I know how 165 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:43.379 hard it is and I did it for a very small time, but getting the CG 166 00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:46.440 right is just time and bankruptcy. 167 00:08:46.500 --> 00:08:48.899 I'm impressed just watching Father's Day again yesterday. 168 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.960 How good the vortosaurs are, which I insist on calling them that 169 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.299 because they're an obvious nod, to storm warning. 170 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.159 The chronos 1st story. 171 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:57.600 Aren't they coronavores? 172 00:08:57.659 --> 00:08:59.580 what I want. 1st of all, maybe. 173 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:00.360 So it's the same thing. 174 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:04.139 They exist in the vortex and when Charlie Pollard has them one as 175 00:09:04.139 --> 00:09:06.659 a pet because she couldn't get an Australian surfer of 176 00:09:06.659 --> 00:09:07.679 heterosexual domain. 177 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.399 I mean, I do agree with you. 178 00:09:11.460 --> 00:09:15.960 I mean, it is budget is time, and I think over time, as the years 179 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:19.440 have gone on, with special effects, you can get better effects 180 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.480 more quickly and people have worked out how to do things. 181 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:24.899 I think at certain times here it's the shading, all the shadows 182 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:25.559 and stuff like that. 183 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:28.740 I'm not saying like it's a breaking point or anything like that 184 00:09:28.740 --> 00:09:32.279 and they're appalling, but there's a little less reality to it. 185 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:35.759 Like I kind of look at it and go, I just wince a little bit at 186 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:36.120 times. 187 00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:37.860 It's the matching and the green screening. 188 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.080 But that is a visual thing. 189 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:42.899 I care about being able to see the actors' faces, their reaction 190 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:47.580 and how they interplay together and how they play against the FX. 191 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.519 Look at Snow White, or, you know, original animation was not, well 192 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:53.340 you know, it doesn't stand up to what you're talking about now, but 193 00:09:53.340 --> 00:09:58.799 pace, tambler, and pause, that the time that you need for actors 194 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:00.840 to do their work is given it. 195 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.419 I think Father's Day is the most successful story that does that 196 00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:04.799 but so is Bad Wolf. 197 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:07.740 And so I can't really think of actually any stories other than the 198 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:11.340 directors that you just talked about, Mr. Bogue stories, where 199 00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:13.860 that doesn't really happen in this season. 200 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:19.679 I think now the special effects are trying to be realer. 201 00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:23.399 And, you know, there is a type of special effect where you don't 202 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.879 realise it's a special effect where they'll match something out or 203 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:30.419 you know, do something like that when you think about, you know 204 00:10:30.419 --> 00:10:31.679 Mad Max Fury Road. 205 00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:33.960 There weren't many special effects, but most of them were things 206 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:38.759 like wiping out cables and stuff like that, not creating CG worlds 207 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:40.139 like Phantom Menace or something. 208 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:44.159 Whereas something like the end of the world is very much saying 209 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:50.220 look at our new toys and what we can do, and those special effects 210 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:53.820 I think, would be spoiled by being so subtle that we didn't 211 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:54.899 realise they were effects. 212 00:10:55.019 --> 00:10:58.860 They needed to be sort of big brash computer effects just to say 213 00:10:58.860 --> 00:10:59.700 that's what we can do. 214 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:08.460 Well, let's just talk about Christopher Eckleston, because this is 215 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:09.240 his retrospective. 216 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:10.620 What do you think his legacy is? 217 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:12.960 Acting. 218 00:11:13.019 --> 00:11:18.179 He gets it right, and I don't believe it's not finding the part. 219 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.519 He said that he wasn't comfortable doing children's. 220 00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:23.820 He saw it as children's television. as did Tom, as did everyone. 221 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:26.820 We actually, everyone, even if we don't necessarily love them, the 222 00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:30.059 ones that the majority of the viewers, and that's the reason the 223 00:11:30.059 --> 00:11:31.019 show is back on the air. 224 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:32.100 It wasn't made for us. 225 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.120 Let's remember. 226 00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:35.940 All we get is ice hop galaxy on a monitor. 227 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:36.659 That's for us. 228 00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:39.240 The rest of it is for the not we. 229 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:45.059 So, the point of their customs performance, I believe, or the 230 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:47.580 punctiliousness of it and the repetition. 231 00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:50.039 Again, it's very it's very symphonic. 232 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:53.820 He really does modulate what he's doing and he'll start off, that 233 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:58.860 timorousness or that sense of uncertainty is actually the actor's 234 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.659 trope, that he is playing a man who was recently, as he saw it 235 00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:04.259 came into a body. 236 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.740 He read, he was very careful with Russell for all that time to 237 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:12.779 consider the time war, and we know that they had complete fan spas 238 00:12:12.779 --> 00:12:18.059 where they all got together into a bubbling round pool of fan 239 00:12:18.059 --> 00:12:20.759 chattiness and talked about the character in the development 240 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:22.799 because that's what a theatre actor does dining. 241 00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:24.120 And then he's how they treated it. 242 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:25.259 You can really feel it. 243 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.919 I don't think he's I don't feel that he was coming from a place of 244 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:29.519 uncertainty. 245 00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:30.960 I feel that he was very carefully. 246 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:32.279 Like you mentioned Todd. 247 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:36.059 It's the Colin Baker principle of starting off cool and warming 248 00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:39.720 him up as he comes into it as he gets used to being here as we get 249 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:40.259 used to him. 250 00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:42.960 It's a really sterling performance watching them again. 251 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.980 And I think that's the reason the series went so well afterwards 252 00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:47.639 for so long. 253 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:49.440 Nathan? 254 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:51.720 I think that Richard's right. 255 00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:55.740 And I want to take another kind of look at it. 256 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.740 Every time the story comes out that the doctor's leaving and we're 257 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:01.860 going to cast a new doctor, we get, it'll be Ken Dodd. 258 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:04.559 It'll be Jeanette Cranky, you know, like it'll be someone 259 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.179 hilarious from TV. 260 00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:12.480 And partly, I think, too, that it was a result of the idea in the 261 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:16.440 80s that it was a job for a light entertainment star. 262 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:21.299 And it was really important, I think, to Russell that it was a 263 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:22.620 proper actor. 264 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:27.419 And Eccleston was such a proper actor that it seemed unlikely that 265 00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:31.259 he would even agree to do it, despite having worked with Russell 266 00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:36.419 before, on a project, which is the 2nd coming, that is not that 267 00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:39.059 dissimilar from his role as Doctor Who. 268 00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:42.899 And it turned out, he was an actor who wasn't going to stick 269 00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:43.919 ground for the part. 270 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:47.100 And so I think we were super lucky to have him for the short time 271 00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:53.700 that we did the sort of crankiness that we get from the sort of 272 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:55.259 behind the scenes stories. 273 00:13:55.320 --> 00:14:00.059 Maybe that's the flip side of the kind of actor he was. 274 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:05.220 And that kind of discomfort with the role, which I think is 275 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:12.720 visible, is a good thing because I think that this season, and I 276 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.779 have said it before, doesn't know whether it's going to be 277 00:14:15.779 --> 00:14:16.559 successful. 278 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:18.360 It doesn't know what it's going to be. 279 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:22.620 They're making this without realising that in a few months time. 280 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.379 It's going to be the biggest show on British television. 281 00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:29.519 And so there's no complacency here. 282 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:34.139 They're all really bringing their A game and trying as hard as 283 00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:35.580 possible. 284 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:37.679 And I think that's why this season's good. 285 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.799 And I think that that's why Eccleston is so good. 286 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:43.559 James. 287 00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:51.840 I would tend to agree with Nathan that it's having such a serious 288 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:59.159 actor in the role really did make the entire production team work 289 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.159 that much harder to try and make a success. 290 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:08.879 And it also proved to the viewing audience that Doctor Who is a 291 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.360 serious, or at least back then it was a serious program that had 292 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:14.759 to, you know, had good actors. 293 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:18.960 It wasn't, you know, that sort of fondly remembered creaky TV show 294 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.899 that had those sort of be great actors. 295 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:27.539 You know, which is how the viewing public remembered it, rightly 296 00:15:27.539 --> 00:15:29.100 or wrongly, wrongly. 297 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:35.519 And so casting such a well-regarded actor in the role, I think, is 298 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.639 it probably actually made it survive. 299 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:43.799 I don't think you could have cast. someone not of his higher 300 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:49.139 calibre without, um, without it possibly not having been renewed 301 00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:49.740 the next season. 302 00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.740 So it's changing the perception of the public of what the show 303 00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:53.399 actually is. 304 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:57.779 His job is so much harder than anybody's come after him apart from 305 00:15:57.779 --> 00:15:58.320 Jody. 306 00:15:58.379 --> 00:15:59.399 Yeah. 307 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:04.019 It's like Pat, you know, like Pat is there to prove that the 308 00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:05.100 doctor can be a new actor. 309 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.879 Chris proves that the show works in the 21st century. 310 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.480 Again, yes, I agree with all that you're saying. 311 00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:17.340 He sets a benchmark for everybody who comes after him to realise 312 00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:19.860 that you have to take this seriously. 313 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:21.299 You have to bring your A game. 314 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.799 You can be funny, you can be heartbreaking, you can be angry. 315 00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:30.240 And I think without that, you know, the performances of his 316 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.580 successes may not be what we actually ended up getting. 317 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.399 Well, Christopher's one part of the of the duo, that is the stars 318 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:41.940 of the show. 319 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.139 The other one is Billy Piper. 320 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.320 Let's talk about belief for a moment in the role of Rose. 321 00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:47.879 What did Billy bring to the table? 322 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:49.740 Oh, the fact that we've still got a show. 323 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.039 I only look at her when she's on. 324 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:55.559 Is that Charlie Brooker game? 325 00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:56.879 Have we mentioned it before? 326 00:16:56.940 --> 00:16:59.639 Where you're looking at her and trying to decide which of her 327 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:01.080 facial features is the biggest? 328 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:02.460 Since she's done the work. 329 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.400 When she comes back, spoiler alert, and it really is. 330 00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:09.420 Oh, my God, why are they using an anamorphic lens on her shots? 331 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:10.980 Oh my god, no, it's her new tea. 332 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:11.940 That's weird. 333 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.980 But I'm not even a fan. 334 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:14.640 I'm really not. 335 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:18.539 I couldn't care less, but of anything she does outside. blithely 336 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:19.079 disinterested. 337 00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:21.119 Didn't even know who she was or that she'd had a recording 338 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:21.539 career. 339 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.420 Of course, you know, hey, BBC listener. 340 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:29.579 But sticking her on there, the subtleties, she gives Eccles heart 341 00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:33.240 and warmth and she's the reason the doctorates were propelled. 342 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:36.059 And the reason we're actually interested in the doctor is the 343 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.039 character of Rose and it is Billy's performance. 344 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:40.980 Because when she says to him, I know you, and she throws the line 345 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:43.920 really nicely, not dwelling on it, because she's not cruel, you're 346 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.099 sad. 347 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.259 You will disappear and you'll be waiting for me at that box and 348 00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:47.819 I'm going to make you wait a long time. 349 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.980 That didn't mean to sound as naughty as it just did. 350 00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:55.319 She brings some real kind of TV style realism to the part. 351 00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:57.839 She's just a bloody good naturalist actor. 352 00:17:57.900 --> 00:17:58.740 Yeah, yeah. 353 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:00.480 I just can't get over. 354 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.079 I'm sure I said this just a couple of weeks ago. that on the 355 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.339 weakest link, The success of that entire sequence just hinges on 356 00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:11.940 her performance, you know, she's amused and then terrified. 357 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.460 She's so good. 358 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.599 She's so terrific. 359 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.420 And she'll be great again next year. 360 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.599 I just think she's extraordinary and we were really lucky to have 361 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:21.900 her. 362 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.480 I actually don't remember the bit where all the fans said, oh 363 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:26.759 she's a pop star, Shelby Crap, you know, what's going on. 364 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:27.420 Oh yes. 365 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:28.319 I don't remember that. 366 00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:32.160 All the forums were lit up again. was Christmas every day. 367 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:34.799 I had a moment where I thought you were going to say, oh, she's 368 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:35.759 back with Jody next year. 369 00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:40.019 Ooh, better get a bit late seasons, Buffy, wouldn't it? 370 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:42.480 Which one's the witch? 371 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:48.119 I think one of the things in rewatching this is that Rose is a lot 372 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.660 more selfish and quite unlikeable at times. 373 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.559 Like, how she's treating Mickey and various... 374 00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:59.700 And I didn't realise that it was quite like that, but that's one 375 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:03.180 of the biggest revelations I got, but her performance throughout 376 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.619 the entire season. 377 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.500 There's just a realism and a grounding that she brings to the role 378 00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:12.480 that even despite those things in rose, you can't help but love 379 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.480 the character and that's because of what she brings to the part as 380 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:16.019 an actress. 381 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:16.980 Yeah. 382 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:20.519 I remember being disappointed in the end of the world when she 383 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.160 gets knocked on the head and then just sort of recovers. 384 00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:26.519 You know, like you get smacked on the head by one of the adherents 385 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.579 of the repeated meme and everyone knows that you go straight to A 386 00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.160 and E and, you know, have concussion and things. 387 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:36.000 And she had been so sort of TV realistic up to that point. 388 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:38.759 I thought, oh, really, is she going to be menaced and thrown 389 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:42.000 downstairs and knocked unconscious and stuff, like used to happen 390 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.500 back in the classic series? 391 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:47.940 And in fact, she more or less avoided that and did get to be like 392 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:50.460 a person reacting to this stuff. 393 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:54.299 And the other characteristic she has is that she's really smart. 394 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.440 Like, she is quick to work out what's going on. 395 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:03.660 So she does seem to be a more well-rounded character than we've 396 00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:05.819 had before, I think. 397 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.339 She's a clever person, even though she doesn't necessarily have 398 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:09.900 like an education. 399 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:10.680 Yeah, that's exactly it. 400 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:11.400 She's not an idiot. 401 00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:11.880 Yeah. 402 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:12.960 I think that's that's right. 403 00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:16.980 And, you know, when they bring in Pete, they make Pete smart. like 404 00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:21.660 clever at working out what's going on and that's where Rose sort 405 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:22.619 of seems to get it from. 406 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.519 And so already we've got a character who has some personality 407 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:27.359 traits. 408 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.759 She isn't just from the Sever team or a time lady or a journalist 409 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.900 whose character is more or less completely defined by the actor's 410 00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:37.319 performance. 411 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:43.019 She is actually a person with more personal characteristics. 412 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:44.220 And I think that's a step up. 413 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.259 James, do you have anything to add? 414 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.359 Look, I have seen. 415 00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:53.460 I mean, I'm one of those fans who, when they see someone in Doctor 416 00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.799 Who will go, where have I seen them before? 417 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:57.599 I would like it, where can I see them? 418 00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:03.420 And so I did seek out a lot of her television following this. 419 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.099 Well, I assume she didn't really have a TV. 420 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:05.819 Really in the smoke? 421 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:12.900 Yeah, so I did track down Ruby and the Smoke and Secret Diver, Call 422 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:15.960 Girl, and various other things that she'd done. 423 00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:19.980 And it's not just Doctor Who. 424 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:21.720 She is a bloody good actress. 425 00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:26.880 I've seen her in Penny Dreadful, and she is a consumptive 426 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.359 prostitute. 427 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:31.559 She's struggling with her new teeth and an Irish accent, which is 428 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.539 really quite terrible, but she still manages. 429 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.980 So often go together, don't they? 430 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.259 She still manages to do an amazing job. 431 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:38.279 She is very good. 432 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:44.579 Strawberry avoid. 433 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:45.539 The Lady Cassandra. 434 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.480 Trisha Delaney, Margaret Slavine. 435 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:53.160 I'd snug Trisha Delaney because I was having trouble getting over 436 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:53.700 Rose. 437 00:21:56.700 --> 00:22:03.000 I think I would avoid the Lady Cassandra, because she'd outlive me 438 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.440 and probably make me into a kaftan or something. 439 00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:12.240 A high waisted evening jacket with Chanel buttons. 440 00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:14.640 Or a blue Kagool. 441 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.119 That leaves you with Margaret Slovine. 442 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:24.539 Oh, I marry Margaret Slippin because I just loving it Badland and 443 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:25.740 everything I've ever seen her in. 444 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.400 And he'd end up being the lady mayoress of Cardiff as well if he 445 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:29.759 did that. 446 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.160 Or her handbag. 447 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.180 There's another aspect I'd like to talk about, which is the 448 00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:40.619 console room, which we just see, the room itself for budgetary 449 00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:41.039 reasons. 450 00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:45.059 What was our initial impressions of that when we saw it and what 451 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:45.720 do we think of it now? 452 00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:48.960 Look, it was so refreshing at the time. 453 00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:55.079 I, as a classic series fan, as we all are in this room, you expect 454 00:22:55.079 --> 00:23:03.059 it to be this modern, white, Spartan technological space and the 455 00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:08.519 boldness of reinventing that in an sort of organic, coral, sort of 456 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:14.759 crystalline kind of way was so different from everything that's 457 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:15.240 gone before. 458 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:22.440 I think the problem with that is that that established for every 459 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:23.819 console room since. 460 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:30.059 You know, we have to go with dark and moody instead of modern and 461 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:37.079 and the closest you get is the late Matt Smith and the Capoldi 462 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.160 console room, which is the closest you get to the classic series 463 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.960 in that it's obviously technological, but it's still dark and 464 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.500 brooding. 465 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:51.839 And I think that makes the whole show dark and brooding after a 466 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:52.079 while. 467 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:54.599 I wasn't taken with it at 1st. 468 00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:56.039 I was actually quite anti-it. 469 00:23:56.099 --> 00:23:59.339 I guess in my head, I thought they'd either go very classic, like 470 00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:02.759 the white one, or they'd go like a telly movie, much more like 471 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.680 Jules Verne type sort of thing. 472 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:08.579 So it was it was a shocking surprise to me to see what they went 473 00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:10.920 with and it took me quite a while to sort of warm to it. 474 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:17.940 I think that the attempts in later designs to be quirky are 475 00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.859 terribly tiresome. 476 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.440 And Matt Smith's 1st console room. 477 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:24.599 I think is horrific. 478 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:30.000 And I think Capaldi's console room is a little bit too TV moving a 479 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.579 little bit too self-consciously Jules Verne. 480 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.140 And so this is technological without being sort of 60s kind of 481 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.000 modernist technological. 482 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:45.420 It doesn't have the skill or ambition of the original design, but 483 00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:50.700 I think it's very good, and I think it does the job of telling us 484 00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:56.160 what the doctor is like because this is where the doctor lives, and 485 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:01.200 in this enormous space, he is a very small figure. 486 00:25:01.259 --> 00:25:05.700 So the console tells us that the doctor is lonely. 487 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:07.259 Just to look at it. 488 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.720 It's not a homely place. 489 00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:13.440 It's not stuffed full of sofas and lovely books to read. 490 00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:20.099 It's a dark place that should have more people in it and should be 491 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:23.279 more brightly lit, but it doesn't because the doctor's on his 492 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:23.519 own. 493 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:27.299 And I think it also serves to reinforce at the doctor's working 494 00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:30.779 class with the sort of metal grating. you know, the kind of 495 00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:33.599 roughness to it, that it's... 496 00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:35.579 Well, it's the job of a mechanic to run it, not a computer 497 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:36.539 programmer. 498 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.319 And I think that that's another good thing as well. to the north. 499 00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:42.299 Yeah, I get a lot of that. 500 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.660 Look, my main disappointment when I saw it was, oh, you're just 501 00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:50.579 taking Jeffrey Sax's principles. of the overarching um flying 502 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:54.059 buttresses meeting the console and you just you just taking out 503 00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:54.779 the steampunk. 504 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:59.339 And I thought the oversimplicity of the mushroom set, the big dome 505 00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:04.259 wasn't going to lead to interesting shots, and the murkiness of it 506 00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:08.039 is just like every fanboys dig when they're a student. a lot of it 507 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:08.339 was nice. 508 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.859 It works as a film set. 509 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:15.900 I actually prefer the Philip Siegel one, even though I know all of 510 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:19.920 the rest of it and was doing all the Victoriana steampunk stick 511 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.460 that we really don't like, but it just had a more interesting 512 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:26.940 dynamics around the certain ways to shoot it and would have been 513 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:29.880 more engaging as a long term. 514 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:31.920 Because we've got that same principle. 515 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:34.319 And that's what's really disappointed me with the Jody set, but we 516 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:34.920 won't go there now. 517 00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:39.240 Um, look, I really like what you're saying about isolating the 518 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:42.660 doctor or the sense that this is an alien thing that the Titus 519 00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:43.319 never was before. 520 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.420 It certainly works for what the show's trying to do. 521 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:58.680 I think this is a really hard question. to answer, because there's 522 00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:00.779 so many strengths to this season. 523 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:02.880 I was thinking about asking you all. 524 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:09.180 If you eliminate Christopher and Billy, who is the MVP on screen? 525 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.000 But there's just so many people you could choose. 526 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.859 Yeah. 527 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.240 Yep, that's my answer. 528 00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:16.140 The correct answer? 529 00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:17.759 What does MVP mean? 530 00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:18.960 Most valued player. 531 00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:20.160 It's a sports thing, James. 532 00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:21.359 I don't do sports ball. 533 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:22.440 Sports ball, yes. 534 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.380 I don't do sports. 535 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.960 Okay, and your favourite guest star of the year. 536 00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:31.619 I actually really love Sean Dignant, I really love. 537 00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:36.119 The way Rose is rounded out by seeing both parents. 538 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.339 And Camille's performance in Father's Day is fabulous. 539 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:46.619 She really does drama very nicely and angry, not very bright 540 00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:47.519 vituperous person. 541 00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:50.940 And then we can see how she developed to the person she is now. 542 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.480 I think she's one of the, she's really a great performer. 543 00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.880 Yeah, there's some real good proper acting. 544 00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.460 She's playing 2 different characters in Paris Day. 545 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.099 And she's different in each role. 546 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.599 And, you know, she's someone who, I said this before, I think 547 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:06.839 too. 548 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:11.880 She would never have been in a Doctor Who story before, she would 549 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:13.920 never have watched Doctor Who if it was on. 550 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.640 She's someone from a completely different world and she just works 551 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:18.480 so well. 552 00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:21.599 And she's there's a real warmth. 553 00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:25.500 One of the things that made me sad when I heard that Billy was 554 00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:28.559 leaving the show, was that I didn't think that they would find a 555 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:30.180 way of bringing Camille back. 556 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.180 And so I thought that that would be the last that we'd see of 557 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:33.779 Jackie. 558 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.660 And I'm glad I was wrong, spoiler alert. 559 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:41.099 She is an absolute revelation and probably the best thing about 560 00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:41.579 the season. 561 00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:43.259 James? 562 00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:47.640 I agree that Sean Dingwall is great. 563 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:49.980 And I think that's possibly because he comes back. 564 00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:51.960 And next season. 565 00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:53.640 Well, I'm not thinking towards the future. 566 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.420 Yeah, but I mean, to me, to me, he has so much potential in this 567 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:00.299 story, which is realised in series two. 568 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:07.980 Um, my favourite guest star of the season is um, Florence Hoth. 569 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:12.480 Oh, she's wonderful in Empty Child of Doctor Dances. 570 00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:17.460 Not just because she's a very good actress and plays that part 571 00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:24.900 with such, I don't know, like warmth and realism. and yet power as 572 00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:25.140 well. 573 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.000 I want to keep calling her Florence Horter. 574 00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:28.200 That would be wrong. 575 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:36.779 But also, the character, when you realise towards the end of the 576 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:43.259 2nd episode that she had a child out of wedlock and she's been 577 00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:46.500 struggling without her entire life and that, you know, the 578 00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:52.140 societal judgement that she had to hide her son away as her 579 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:52.500 brother. 580 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:58.200 That character just really, having studied history for a long time 581 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:03.779 especially 20th century history and knowing that period so well. 582 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:06.720 That character just resonated with that, I think. 583 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.180 I love Murray's music. 584 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:16.440 I think it's impossible to imagine the 1st 10 seasons of the new 585 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.339 series without him. 586 00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:22.500 I think there are lots of issues with it in the mix in series 587 00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:23.039 one. 588 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:27.900 I find that quite often you can't hear any dialogue. 589 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.779 Maybe, look, maybe that's on rewatching it or the way it's been 590 00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:35.579 remastered for Blu-ray. 591 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:42.599 I don't know, but the music itself is joyous, it's exciting 592 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:43.380 adventurous. 593 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:48.720 It's pitched exactly where Russell, I think, intended it to be. 594 00:30:48.779 --> 00:30:50.160 That's why he chose Murray. 595 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:52.559 He worked with Murray before on queer folk. 596 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:56.759 It encapsulates the show that he's making. 597 00:30:56.819 --> 00:30:59.279 And I don't think you can imagine the new series without it. 598 00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.079 I love Murray's music, but there was a really extraordinary 599 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:04.619 article. 600 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.359 I don't know if any of you guys read it. 601 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:07.859 I dropped it into the chat during the week. 602 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.420 It was an article in the New Yorker about the music of Doctor Who 603 00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:17.519 which talked about Segun Archinola's music for the new series and 604 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:20.160 his new version of the theme. 605 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:24.539 And we've been saying in Jody into Terra over the past few weeks 606 00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:27.000 that we like the music. 607 00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:31.200 And I found, after 10 years of Murray Gold, that it has been a 608 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.779 relief to not be told what to feel. 609 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:38.579 Except that I, we said this before because I think that he has 610 00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:42.599 taken the approach and it's with Russell's direction, that his job 611 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:45.000 is to tell us what to feel. 612 00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:49.200 And that's one of the roles of incidental music. 613 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:54.119 And it's a particularly kind of Star Wars-y, you know, a big 614 00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:56.220 bombastic genre. 615 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.059 Very John Williams. 616 00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:57.660 Yeah. 617 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:00.960 And you can see that they do want to get away from sort of weird 618 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.900 plinky kind of see devil's music because that's kind of 619 00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:08.160 alienating. 620 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:12.480 And while they're introducing it to a new audience and a broad 621 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.279 audience, they're trying to be conservative. 622 00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:16.859 And I think that they took the right approach. 623 00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.380 That's not what Verity did though. 624 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.759 No, no, that's quite right. 625 00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:21.240 I agree. 626 00:32:21.299 --> 00:32:24.359 The New Yorker article cites Malcolm Cole, which I think is the 627 00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:27.119 worst piece of scoring to have ever been done for the history of 628 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.059 the series for the sea devils, because all I'm aware of is the 629 00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:34.380 terrible score, and it overwrites the action to the point that I'm 630 00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:36.000 dissociated from what I'm seeing. 631 00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:39.359 However, there's no mention of Tristram Carey, who we've mentioned 632 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.359 before in the old days as being, I think, one of the greatest 20th 633 00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:46.380 century electronic composers, and his score for the Daleks, his 634 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:48.599 score, even for the mutants later on. 635 00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:52.380 Just beautiful and censorious and odd and strange. 636 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.599 But I'm getting this now. 637 00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:59.039 This feels like Carrie with the new series with Carrie and Dudley 638 00:32:59.039 --> 00:32:59.519 Simpson. 639 00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:01.859 Yeah, the underscoring in the subtleties. 640 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.339 I like that, but I do love Murray's approach. 641 00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:07.259 And I do think it was the right approach. 642 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.519 I agree, I agree for this season. 643 00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:09.539 It's the right approach. 644 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.099 Maybe not for 10 seasons. 645 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:11.940 No, no. 646 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.380 The the reimagining of the the theme tune is fantastic. 647 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.180 And all the little personal themes, especially Rose's theme, just 648 00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:22.980 underscore everything, and I just think it's beautiful. 649 00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.180 All right, it's not Mary Avoya. 650 00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:40.680 The Temple of Peace, St. 651 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.559 Albion's Hospital, and the Powell Estate. 652 00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:47.279 I don't think you give me all the warm relationship alternatives 653 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:49.500 here. architectural things. 654 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.980 You know all things about architecture. pretend to. 655 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:56.819 I really love the hospital, the Alban hospital and it was a 656 00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:57.539 hospital, wasn't it? 657 00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.319 It's the genuine thing. 658 00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.099 It's just gorgeous. 659 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:00.720 And you get Richard Wilson as a surprise. 660 00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:03.240 And, you know, he's a great recontour. 661 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:04.079 He's a great wit. 662 00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:06.900 Believe me, he's his autobiography and I thoroughly recommend 663 00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:08.159 everyone run out and listen to it. 664 00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:09.179 You can get it on audible. 665 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.179 And he grew up with Sean Connery and plays tennis to this day, so 666 00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:13.380 a great pair of pins. 667 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:17.219 So I'm definitely marrying that hospital with Dr. Constantine as 668 00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:18.960 it's cracker delight. 669 00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:23.340 The other one was the was that decon platform one, wasn't it? 670 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:24.780 Which is an empty cold set. 671 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.960 I don't think that's going to offer me much except, you know, the 672 00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.179 opportunity of leaving Bruno behind. 673 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.840 So that in itself is a reason to leave it alone. 674 00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:35.039 And what was the 3rd one, Todd? 675 00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:36.900 The Palestate. 676 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:38.639 The Palestate. the Palestate. 677 00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:41.280 Oh, that means I have to snog. 678 00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:43.199 Mind you, there's a lot of totty on the Palestate. 679 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:46.559 There's all those, you know, there's all those lubatorium and 680 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.659 mechanical offices just next door. 681 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:49.619 I mean, where does Mickey work? 682 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.059 He works at the Palace State. 683 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:52.920 Yeah, no, I'm fine with the Palacedale. snog that. 684 00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:53.940 Why not? 685 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:54.900 Excellent. 686 00:34:55.619 --> 00:35:02.219 So sitting here now, thinking about each of those episodes, as a 687 00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:04.739 snapshot, there's a moment in the episode that stands out in your 688 00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:05.579 head, right? 689 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:10.260 A moment, maybe visual, align, something from each of those that 690 00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:10.860 sits with you. 691 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.119 Do you know where I'm going with this? 692 00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:12.659 Yep. 693 00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:13.320 All right. 694 00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:14.820 Rose. 695 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:17.400 It's the bride Autons. 696 00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:22.380 I said this on the actual podcast itself, the realisation that 697 00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:27.480 because autons were mannequins, they could be wearing dresses and 698 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.820 that would be deeply hilarious. 699 00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:30.659 So it's that. 700 00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:35.519 Oh, for me, it was it's Camille. 701 00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:40.139 When she sexualises the doctor and his reaction to it. 702 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.780 I'm thinking, what would pert we do? 703 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.679 He'd probably jump right in. 704 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.900 It was really shocking and surprising. 705 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.119 I thought, my goodness, we are in the 21st century. 706 00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.619 It's an amazing scene. 707 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:53.519 James? 708 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.300 Mine would have to be the scene towards the end of the episode 709 00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:05.340 where Rose does the whole speech about winning the bronze in the 710 00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:10.500 gymnastics and saves the day by thinking, like thinking on her 711 00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:15.059 feet and going, well, you know, the doctors being held captive 712 00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:16.440 Mick is useless. 713 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.480 I have to save the world. 714 00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.579 And I just love that scene. 715 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:23.340 It's kind of like, look, this character is not just going to 716 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.780 scream and fall down, like so many before her, she is a, like 717 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:31.679 she's a driving force in the, in the narrative of, of this story. 718 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:36.239 Okay, for me, it's Camille in the bedroom, blow drying a hair. 719 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:39.179 Like, that's, you know, when the doctor walks in, that's, that's 720 00:36:39.179 --> 00:36:43.199 that's, that, that just, so it is that potent that, you know, I 721 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:43.860 thought it was just me. 722 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.539 Good, good. anything could happen. 723 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.320 All right. 724 00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:47.159 End of the world. 725 00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:49.860 It's Britney. 726 00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.019 Yeah, toxic. 727 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:52.679 Yeah, yeah. 728 00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.539 And the iPod and all of that sort of joke. 729 00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.780 The realisation that the future's not going to be sort of drab 730 00:36:57.780 --> 00:37:00.599 space corridors, it's going to be clever and funny. 731 00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:02.159 Richard. 732 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.260 Oh, Mrs. Wood. 733 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.619 Mrs. Tree when she gives him, you know, the exchange a bit of 734 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:07.800 wood. 735 00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:09.539 I just love the actress. 736 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:11.639 I'm sorry, I can't remember who it is. off the top of my head. 737 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.239 The woman. 738 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:12.900 Yasmin Bannum. 739 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:13.500 Yes, madam. 740 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:15.059 Of course, we own her now. 741 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:19.199 She's doing Blake 7 Big Finish audios as the non-Dana. 742 00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:20.400 The non-data Dana. 743 00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:22.920 And she's superb, and she's marvellous in this, and again, we've 744 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:26.099 got a flirty doctor, and it's really poultritudinous and cheeky 745 00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:29.039 and she does a lot of pouty mouth action, and he does a lot of 746 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:33.659 cool introspective northern I could be up for this eye action back 747 00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:34.199 at it. 748 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:34.980 It's just so exciting. 749 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.579 And then they go and have a lovely testament to wood chipping 750 00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:41.820 industries and how and how cruel they are. 751 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:47.639 I think it was, it's the just that establishing shot of the space 752 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:48.360 station. 753 00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:54.179 Um, and and and the ships flying in and going, as somebody who 754 00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:58.260 like all of us grew up watching this show when it wasn't quite so 755 00:37:58.260 --> 00:38:01.619 uh, highly produced and and, you know, we look back at it now and 756 00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:05.880 go, oh, these special effects look a bit, don't you love, didn't 757 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.099 you get that moment where the rings were a bit nerve a beacon? 758 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.420 that little moment. 759 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.739 Yes. 760 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:16.019 But when I rewatched the episode for the podcast, hey, there were 761 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:18.900 other shots that I thought, well, this doesn't quite stand the 762 00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:19.559 test of time. 763 00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:25.679 I think that one still does because it's so iconic and it's and 764 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.219 it's the 1st time you get to go, well, this is what this show can 765 00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:29.639 do now. 766 00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:34.559 And it's still, it's still to this day, is one of the most 767 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:36.179 impressive shots in the show. 768 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.179 Okay, it's either the giant fans. 769 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:42.059 The doctor having to go through them, which I think is just 770 00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:42.539 hilarious. 771 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.420 It just cracked me up and it's the moment that spider hits the 772 00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:46.559 television camera. 773 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:47.579 Oh, yeah. 774 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:48.420 That's genius. 775 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.800 It's a Doctor Who fan, you know? 776 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:52.079 Okay, I'm Quiet Dead. 777 00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:54.960 I have no memory of that episode. 778 00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:56.760 Was it a bit tiresome? 779 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:58.980 What Phantasmagore area is this? 780 00:38:59.039 --> 00:38:59.880 the only thing I can remember. 781 00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:03.780 My moment, sir, with Gwen and Rose. 782 00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:06.960 Again, it's when the actors are doing a beautiful piece and Gwen 783 00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:09.780 is talking, they're talking about boys, and it's really poignant 784 00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:13.980 and, you know, you're getting to see the, well, just the opening 785 00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:17.699 of a person who is so restricted in their lives, but you can say 786 00:39:17.699 --> 00:39:19.800 oh, yes, we look at, Well, I wouldn't know about that, madam, but 787 00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:24.480 then she talks about being able to read rows and the steel planes 788 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:28.260 in the sky and that is to her more displacing and more shocking 789 00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:31.980 and more revelatory than actually talking about the sexualising of 790 00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:34.079 life, which was utterly forbidden. 791 00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:38.340 So there's just these layers of a girl then and the girl from now 792 00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:41.159 and that's really a beautiful, poignant scene. 793 00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:43.980 And yeah, that's the 1st thing that comes to mind for me. 794 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:48.900 All right, and the two-parter, moments from that, from Aliens of 795 00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:49.739 London, World War II. 796 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:54.300 It's the scene where a toddler is crawling on the doctor's lap and 797 00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:57.539 he's trying to get the toddler out of the way so that he can watch 798 00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:02.400 television, and it is because nothing ever remotely like that had 799 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:06.900 ever been in Doctor Who before, and it's emblematic of that 2 800 00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:12.599 parter, which is absolutely extraordinary, the best alien invasion 801 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:18.360 either since the invasion or to date, because you just never know 802 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:19.739 what it's going to do next. 803 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.920 It's amazing, incredibly great story. 804 00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:27.719 I like the way that he takes to Harriet and as he does through all 805 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:31.559 of these stories where it's not necessarily the underdog, it's the 806 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:35.340 person who is meek and who is hesitant to speak, but they actually 807 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:39.300 are the person who is going to reform and rebuild. 808 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:40.800 In fact, all of these stories. 809 00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:44.219 I'm quite astounded at how socialist the base of this is, if 810 00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:48.599 you'll indulge me, because the powers that be, I would say, are 811 00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:52.139 conservative, in that they are reductive, in that they are 812 00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:55.500 formalised, and that they do not listen to anything that is 813 00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:58.500 peripheral, they have a, they have a direction, and that's what 814 00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.159 they stick to. 815 00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:01.079 The doctor never does that. 816 00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:05.460 It used to, only even in Pertweese day, where we saw him. 817 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.780 I suppose most is the antithesis of the Eccleston doctor, I don't 818 00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:11.340 remember him doing what Eccleston does. 819 00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:12.300 He does it slightly. 820 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.360 He does it with Bilal, but he does, but there's this lovely moment 821 00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:18.599 of, no, the doctor recognises Penelope Wilton's character and 822 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:20.699 listens and that's what changes the world. 823 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.719 And though Rose does it first. 824 00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:28.380 I think my favourite scene is uh, it's Margaret Slithine 825 00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:32.880 confronting the doctor and him saying, you know, I'm going to stop 826 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:34.619 you and her going, what, you in your box? 827 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:38.940 That's a great confrontation is all just done with looks and 828 00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:39.719 dialogue. 829 00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:41.280 And good actors. 830 00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:46.800 Yes, it just sort of encapsulates his sort of fighting against 831 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.320 oppression against sort of... 832 00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:50.519 I mean, look, that's the other thing. 833 00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:55.559 So, I mean, aren't really defined as evil per se just as like 834 00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:56.519 capitalists. 835 00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:57.360 Yeah, yeah. 836 00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:58.500 They're just hyper capitalist. 837 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:00.599 Yeah, and capitalist. 838 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:01.679 Invading capitalist. 839 00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:03.000 Mainland Chinese business. 840 00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:03.840 So evil. 841 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.099 Like capitalism. 842 00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:11.099 But capitalism taking to a 10th degree without, you know, with no 843 00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:13.199 consideration for life or... 844 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:14.159 Yeah, that'd be crazy. 845 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:18.360 Imagine if we've had it up for fuel and didn't care that we were 846 00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:19.739 all going to die. crazy stuff. 847 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:24.539 I guess for me the moments that stick in my mind are Harriet Jones 848 00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:26.039 MP for flying down north. 849 00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:27.659 Yep. know who you are. 850 00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.719 Um, and... 851 00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:37.920 In the 2nd episode, it's that shot of the missile. streaking 852 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.239 through London. 853 00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:44.039 I just, I, that's just something that just, yeah, that just sticks 854 00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:46.380 in my mind and it's the little pig running away too. 855 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.360 That's the other thing in episode, the 1st episode. 856 00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:49.260 That is awesome. 857 00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:00.119 Dalek, the long game and Father's Day. 858 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.119 Is there something that sticks out in your mind from those 3 859 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:03.780 episodes? 860 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:11.159 I actually think for me, the best moment in that episode is the 861 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:15.360 framing story in Father's Day, the one that's told into different 862 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:20.519 versions by Jackie, and the way that that story fixes the history 863 00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:22.079 of Pete's death. 864 00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:26.460 And I said this in the episode in our Father's Day episode and I 865 00:43:26.460 --> 00:43:30.659 was tearing up as I was mentioning up not only because of the fact 866 00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:33.840 that Pete doesn't die alone, but that the person driving the car 867 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.360 gets forgiven in that. 868 00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:39.119 And I think it's an extraordinarily beautiful thing. 869 00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:40.440 I think it's Paul. 870 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:42.539 You know, I think Paul Cornell's responsible for that. 871 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:43.800 And it's great. 872 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:48.840 I guess for me, it's having Rick Astley play never going to give 873 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:51.239 you up in the music track of that episode. 874 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:52.739 Oh, actually, that is better. 875 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:53.219 You're right. 876 00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.039 James? 877 00:43:56.039 --> 00:44:02.579 I think I touched on this in our episode on Dalek is the way that 878 00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:05.820 they obviously went... 879 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.760 Well, what did what did the general public think was crap about 880 00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:09.599 the Daleks? 881 00:44:09.659 --> 00:44:11.460 Let's turn everything on its head. 882 00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:19.440 Um, which ostensibly was, was, uh, Rob Sherman's wife having, like 883 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.579 he robbed, apparently chatted to his wife and asked her, what did 884 00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:26.519 you think was crap about these things and, and she gave him a list 885 00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:29.699 and he debunked every, every one of them in the episode. 886 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:32.340 That's why she gets a Dalek Wrangler credit. 887 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.300 Does she? 888 00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:33.719 No. 889 00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:34.500 Oh. 890 00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:38.460 She's the one that sticks the ramp on the stairs. 891 00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.280 Yeah, she now's the plywood. 892 00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:43.019 The green the green screen ram. 893 00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.139 Okay, the empty child, the doctor dances Boomtown. 894 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.480 I'll just start off. 895 00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:50.340 I guess where's my mummy? 896 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:54.360 And for the mayor, one is just a hilarious chase of chasing 897 00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:57.960 Margaret Slovene up and down that corridor, she materialises in 898 00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:59.699 and out and in and out. 899 00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:04.380 All right, and the final two, two-parter, is there something that 900 00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:05.280 really stands out for you? 901 00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:09.000 I think it is those TV shows. 902 00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:13.739 I think, you know, when you don't know exactly what Doctor Who's 903 00:45:13.739 --> 00:45:18.900 going to be like in the 21st century, suddenly seeing that it just 904 00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:27.719 openly satirises 3 TV shows that are huge and popular in 2005 and 905 00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:33.239 doesn't explain it, there's no kind of space reason why this is 906 00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:33.659 happening. 907 00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:39.539 It's happening because the audience watching the show also in 2005 908 00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:42.780 and the show is created and directed at them. 909 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:49.500 And I think that explicit kind of postmodern approach where the 910 00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:53.639 show is being written as a television event that will take place 911 00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:58.559 sometime in the middle of 2005, I think, is so daring and so 912 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:04.079 interesting for Doctor Who, and it manages to be funny and clever 913 00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:09.840 and so confident, you know, so incredibly confident and 914 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:10.619 ambitious. 915 00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:15.360 And for that reason, that 2 parter is just one of my favourite 916 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.039 pieces of Doctor Who ever. 917 00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:22.800 And I think, unlike you, Todd, I have the entirety of bad wolf 918 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:24.599 seared into my memory. 919 00:46:24.659 --> 00:46:30.840 I could do a performance of it for you. here on the sofa at a 920 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:31.739 moment's notice. 921 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.000 I think it's an incredible achievement. just extraordinary. 922 00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:40.679 So that's your favourite episode of the season? 923 00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:45.119 I think it might be my favourite episode ever, but it is my 924 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:49.800 favourite episode of the season with an honourable mention for 925 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:51.719 Aliens of London, World War III. 926 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:53.159 Okay. 927 00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:55.500 You want to do favourite episodes? 928 00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:56.699 What's what we're going to do? 929 00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:57.480 Oh, okay. 930 00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:02.159 Well, it depends what we're looking for if you want my favourite 931 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:03.239 Doctor Who episode. 932 00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:06.659 It's probably Dalek because it rebuilds the whole mythos, if 933 00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:10.139 you've been saying, of what Doctor Who is and surprises us all and 934 00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:14.639 waggles the finger of opprobrium and says, you see, we're a lot 935 00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:15.659 better than you thought we were. 936 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.000 And we were always a bit better than you thought we were. 937 00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:21.960 But if you're talking about heart and feeling, Father's Day is 938 00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:22.559 extraordinary. 939 00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:26.760 And if you're talking about venturesome, open-eyed, wonder, um 940 00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:30.000 aliens of London, World War 3, and on the end of the world gives 941 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:30.780 me all of those things. 942 00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.300 End of the World is Galaxy Quest on a budget. 943 00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:34.260 It's that much fun. 944 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:38.159 Especially the fans that they have to get through. 945 00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:41.460 Why do we have these chumpy, chumpy things? 946 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.599 That's great. 947 00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.659 I think that episode is often overlooked. 948 00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.119 Not underrated, just overlooked difference. 949 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:53.460 I think Bad Wolf is my favourite episode. funny or surprising or 950 00:47:53.460 --> 00:47:54.900 because it's so contemporaneous? 951 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:55.980 And it's so fresh. 952 00:47:56.340 --> 00:47:58.199 He's never seen it before. 953 00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:03.960 I find it very difficult with series one to actually fault 954 00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:04.320 anything. 955 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.780 It works as a whole for me. 956 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:13.440 Like, it builds over the course of the series, I think it works as 957 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:18.780 a single story in that if you're following rose as your like point 958 00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:22.559 of reference for the show, that whole 1st season is rose's 959 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:23.699 adventure. 960 00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:26.039 And so I find it very difficult to go. 961 00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:27.179 Well, this one's my favourite. 962 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:27.900 That one's my favourite. 963 00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:32.340 I find something to enjoy in all of them, even the ones which are 964 00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:33.780 a bit clunky. 965 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.000 I think it's what Richard said earlier. 966 00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:39.179 Richard used the word symphonic to describe this season, and I 967 00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:43.860 think that that is exactly right, that this is one coherent story 968 00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:48.300 that the basic unit of narrative in Doctor Who now is the season 969 00:48:48.300 --> 00:48:51.300 and so the unquiet dead. 970 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:54.599 Well, it's not, you know, it has a lot going for it. 971 00:48:54.659 --> 00:48:59.820 I don't enjoy it as much as some other episodes, but the show 972 00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:01.619 would be poorer without it. 973 00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:04.500 It's just possible the season wouldn't quite work without it. 974 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:08.880 And so it is one big giant thing. 975 00:49:16.619 --> 00:49:20.340 Russell T Davies has redefined the show. 976 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:24.539 What has he done that new that has improved the series? 977 00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:28.079 I think this is all stuff that I've said before, but I think the 978 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.139 45 minute episodes were an obvious thing. 979 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:35.460 I think that having character-based storytelling was the right 980 00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:36.119 thing to do. 981 00:49:36.179 --> 00:49:41.039 Having more women in it than Doctor Who had often had. 982 00:49:41.099 --> 00:49:46.019 So broadening the audience, and mining more of Doctor Who than 983 00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:49.440 what people remembered from the 80s or going further afield than 984 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:55.739 the Hinge Cliff era, and including things and approaches that we'd 985 00:49:55.739 --> 00:50:01.679 only seen in the 60s or that we'd seen in the Sylvester McCoy 986 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:02.099 era. 987 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:08.219 Just the idea that Doctor Who isn't those 3 years of Doctor Who in 988 00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:12.539 the 70s, the Doctor Who can be a lot of things that can be fun and 989 00:50:12.539 --> 00:50:17.699 funny and silly and character based, it doesn't have to be deadly 990 00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:22.440 serious science fiction designed simply to provide material for 991 00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:24.719 TARDIS with KEA entries. 992 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.179 And so it becomes something that everyone can watch. 993 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.159 And that everyone does watch. 994 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:37.320 It becomes the biggest show on TV because Russell knows television 995 00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:41.579 and knows how to be entertaining and knows how to speak to a 996 00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:42.420 general audience. 997 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.840 And it's something that Doctor Who had lacked for, you know, a 998 00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:46.679 very, very long time. 999 00:50:47.340 --> 00:50:51.539 Is it part of also building this family on the show? 1000 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:55.860 I think that's it too, that the premise of Doctor Who, and I think 1001 00:50:55.860 --> 00:51:00.119 I've said this 4 or 5 times in different episodes over the last 13 1002 00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:00.719 weeks. 1003 00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:03.900 The premise of the show is 2 people who travel from place to place 1004 00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:06.900 and there's a different guest cast on a different location every 1005 00:51:06.900 --> 00:51:14.820 week, and yet somehow he creates this semi-regular cast, which is 1006 00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:19.739 a secret that lets cracked in the early 70s with unit. 1007 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:24.360 And that makes the show more grounded and more relatable. 1008 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:28.920 It gives the characters more things to do because they have more 1009 00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:30.059 different people to interact with. 1010 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:33.179 It's how rep theatre works. 1011 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:37.019 Soap, you mentioned it in one of the podcasts this year, soap and 1012 00:51:37.019 --> 00:51:41.519 SF for sci-fi, have a lot more in common than the SF audience 1013 00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:42.480 would like to admit. 1014 00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:45.420 This works because it's not really Doctor Who. it's a new show 1015 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:47.280 It's the Russell show. 1016 00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:50.460 Doctor Who doesn't work when it tries to go dark, Stephen. 1017 00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.500 No, not for too long. 1018 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:56.519 Even just, you know, the idea that he wouldn't show blood or he 1019 00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.440 wouldn't show human beings shooting one another. 1020 00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:01.980 You know, he would never have produced earth shock. 1021 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:02.639 No. 1022 00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:06.420 No, an earth shock wouldn't look how look how much that would 1023 00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:07.559 stick out in this season. 1024 00:52:07.619 --> 00:52:08.760 It just wouldn't work. 1025 00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:11.519 Yes, it's something you just mentioned, Nathan. 1026 00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:12.539 Like, he wouldn't show blood. 1027 00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:14.820 Like there's times where I've gone, oh, they've been shot. 1028 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:15.539 I should be seeing blood. 1029 00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:19.260 But I mean, people are very rarely shot with just proper guns in 1030 00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:19.920 Doctor Who. 1031 00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:24.000 The one that I can think of is Mr. Saxon at the end of series 3 1032 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.579 where he does break his rule and show a bit of blood, but 1033 00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:30.780 certainly, you know, you don't get Lytton's hands at the end of 1034 00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:34.380 Attack of the Sidemen too, that's inconceivable in Modern Doctor 1035 00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:34.739 Who. 1036 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.400 And I think that's good because it wants a broad family audience. 1037 00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:44.219 It can't just be for teenage train spotters that we all. 1038 00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:09.539 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 1039 00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:12.900 We'll actually be taking a break for a bit before coming back at 1040 00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:17.099 you in the new year with new teeth and our shiny new coverage of 1041 00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:17.579 Series 2. 1042 00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:19.559 That's Billy and the doctor. 1043 00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:20.099 That's right. 1044 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:20.639 That's weird. 1045 00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:24.179 You can keep up with our news at Flight3entirety.com, flights 1046 00:53:24.179 --> 00:53:28.139 through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts on Twitter. 1047 00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.559 But between now and then, we'll also be releasing a couple of 1048 00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:35.219 commentary podcasts, including a very special Christmas episode 1049 00:53:35.219 --> 00:53:38.940 and we'll still be on air each week to talk about the new episodes 1050 00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:44.039 of series 11 in Jody interterra, a Doctor Who flashcast where we 1051 00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:46.500 dispense hot takes about each week's episode. 1052 00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:50.760 You'll find that at Jodyintterterra.com, Jody interterra on Apple 1053 00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.519 Podcasts and at Jody interterra on Twitter. 1054 00:53:53.579 --> 00:53:57.960 Over on Bondfinger, you can find commentaries on every film in the 1055 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:01.079 James Bond franchise, even a view to a kill. 1056 00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:02.460 That's bondfinger.com. 1057 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:06.119 Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple podcast and at Bondfingercast on 1058 00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:06.599 Twitter. 1059 00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:11.219 Until next time, may you enjoy a refreshing break between seasons 1060 00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:13.980 followed by a triumphant return in the new year. 1061 00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:16.380 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 1062 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:17.159 Good night. 1063 00:54:17.219 --> 00:54:18.360 See you soon. 1064 00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:18.900 Good then. 1065 00:54:22.019 --> 00:54:25.619 That was Fly through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan 1066 00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:28.860 Bottomley, James Selwood and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by 1067 00:54:28.860 --> 00:54:31.739 Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg. 1068 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:35.039 This episode, you have to bring your A game, was recorded on the 1069 00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:38.639 4th of November 2018 and released on the 25th of November. 1070 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:44.400 Just in time for Christmas, FDE Enterprises has released Snog 1071 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:48.059 Marrier Void in the form of a customisable card game, featuring 1072 00:54:48.059 --> 00:54:51.059 all of your favourites, including Eric Seyward, the Planet 1073 00:54:51.059 --> 00:54:54.960 Bravelox, and every extant episode of the John Wilds era. 1074 00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:57.179 Could this have been done without her? 1075 00:54:57.239 --> 00:54:58.980 Could you ever see anybody else in the role? 1076 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.519 What do you think of her performance in this particular season in 1077 00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:04.500 chemistry with Christopher? 1078 00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:07.559 I think it was a major industry disappointment that Jeanette 1079 00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:08.820 Cranky was not cast. 1080 00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:11.340 It's a core role with Ken Dodd as the lead. 1081 00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:13.440 Who's Jeanette Cranky? 1082 00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:15.480 She's a yuppy duppy. 1083 00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:19.559 She's the one when French and Saunders do Silence of the Lambs and 1084 00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:20.880 she's in the cage next door. 1085 00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:22.679 Oh great. 1086 00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:24.480 I mean, that's just a go to. 1087 00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:31.079 She plays Safie's midwife in series 5 of Absolutely Fabulous. 1088 00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:36.719 And is a husband and wife, comedy Scottish duo that play a man and 1089 00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:37.320 a little boy. 1090 00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:39.239 Oh, yes, I know who she is now. 1091 00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:41.639 Little sort of cap. 1092 00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:46.079 In the great tradition of British comedy in the way of Jimmy 1093 00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:49.679 Clitheroe, who was actually a midget, gentleman playing a boy 1094 00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:54.659 child for 14 years, I think, on BBC radio, or entertaining Archie 1095 00:55:54.659 --> 00:55:59.219 where you had a mannequin for almost 20 years on BBC radio and no 1096 00:55:59.219 --> 00:56:00.059 one blinked. 1097 00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:00.960 Okay, thank you. 1098 00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:03.059 So was dismal over them. 1099 00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:07.920 And that's the grand tradition of British comedic styles that 1100 00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:11.699 takes us to the comedic elements in this one. 1101 00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.679 Yeah, I mean, obviously it should have been someone like that. 1102 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:20.219 So what does Billy what did Billy bring to the table? 1103 00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:21.960 Oh, the fact that we've still got to show?