WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:11:25 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:44.159 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that has decided to quit Doctor Who completely. 2 00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:50.340 Do a series of commentary podcasts on Thor 2 and then spend a long period in complete obscurity. 3 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:51.359 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:51.420 --> 00:00:52.439 I'm Todd. 5 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:53.280 I'm James. 6 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:54.780 I'm Richard for today. 7 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:57.240 That's a revelation. 8 00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:07.319 We've reached the end of the 1st series of New Who, so it's time to sit down, take stock and work out what valuable life lessons we learned from the Christopher Eccleston era. 9 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:09.599 Take it away, Chancellor Flavia. 10 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:40.500 Hello, listeners, and welcome to our Christopher Eggleston Retrospective for his one season in the role. 11 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:43.260 Well, let's begin with some of the hard hitting questions. 12 00:01:44.459 --> 00:01:55.140 So Nathan, knowing that Bad Wolf is your favourite episode of the season, Snog, marry a void, stars in their eyes, call my bluff, bear with me. 13 00:01:55.260 --> 00:02:01.200 Okay, I'm totally snocking bear with me for some definition of the word bear, I think, probably. 14 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:07.560 Is that when they revive at Lizabethan Theatre and just throw you into a bear pit with live crushing bears? 15 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:10.139 No, that's the one where they don't they have a bath with a bear? 16 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:11.580 Yeah, the bear gets in the bath. 17 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:12.599 It's the best bit. 18 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.080 And then stars in your eyes. 19 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:16.919 We've all been there. 20 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:17.639 Yeah. 21 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:19.919 I'm keen to avoid stars in their eyes. 22 00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:21.060 I think that sounds terrible. 23 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:22.979 And call my bluff. 24 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:23.580 Was that the other one? 25 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:24.419 With real guns? 26 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:25.020 Yep. 27 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:26.580 I'm going to I'm marrying that. 28 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:27.780 Oh excellent. 29 00:02:27.900 --> 00:02:35.219 It means you married Dennis Norden and the lovely, what was the other lovely fella with the gruffly moustache and all the rest of it? 30 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:37.259 Anyway, it's a very long time ago. 31 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:41.879 Frank Muir, Frank Muir, and Dennis Norden, who were doing call my bluff back in the 50s. 32 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.520 But that was just a nod for us fan folk. 33 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:46.020 Who are a 1000000 years old? 34 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:46.740 Yeah. 35 00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:01.800 Coming back to this 14 years later, What's the thing that stood out for you for this entire series? 36 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:05.580 This is a terribly nerdy story, but I'm going to tell it anyway. 37 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:12.240 Someone at work in 2005 said to me, you look really happy. 38 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.460 And I said, it's because Doctor Who's back on. 39 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:25.439 And this series made me incredibly happy because not only did it come back, but it was really good. 40 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:33.000 And you look at it now and it does look sort of cheap in places, but it is so tremendously great. 41 00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:37.139 And I guess that's what I've been thinking over the past 13 episodes. 42 00:03:37.379 --> 00:03:39.060 Richard? 43 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:47.280 My only take, and I've said it before, is it really shows with a drama, this complex that you need 18 months of script development. 44 00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:56.460 I didn't even, not even talking about design or casting or whatever the directors, you know, then do with the scripts, but each time we've had a hiatus. 45 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.439 And you look at other big shows that are done. 46 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:03.060 This rapid turnover, as they've seen with modern television. 47 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:20.819 We saw how much they got away with and what was acceptable in the 70s and the early 80s with rapid turnover, but I now stop and think of this as seeing just how well-developed the scripts are and that the time for everyone to know what they're doing and know their parts and work with it really well. 48 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:26.819 And I look at the 70s and the 80s and think, It wasn't actually maybe just a matter of budget. 49 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:33.240 Imagine what they would have been able to do if they had another 6 months between seasons back in the day. 50 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:34.740 At a 13 episode season. 51 00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:36.060 Wouldn't it have been interesting? 52 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:39.060 I think we would have had a much better quality for all these years. 53 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.399 Counterpoint season 22. 54 00:04:42.420 --> 00:04:44.459 Oh, nice. 55 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:46.740 And season 23, you know, but... 56 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:49.079 But they were also, you had to see one. 57 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:50.160 Yeah, yeah. 58 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:50.579 Yeah. 59 00:04:50.579 --> 00:04:52.620 Right. going there. 60 00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:55.740 James, coming back to this. 61 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:02.759 I am not this huge a fan of Eccleston as Nathan, but why not? 62 00:05:02.819 --> 00:05:03.420 That's interesting. 63 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:07.319 I think it's more a case if I just preferred tenant. 64 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:12.240 I know that doesn't sit well with Richard, look at his face. dear listener. 65 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:25.319 But I think it's, yeah, look, I mean, I was surprised how much I enjoyed it rewatching it for the podcast because I didn't have as fond a memory. 66 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:32.939 I kind of, I think I got caught up in the, you know, him quitting after a year or after an episode. 67 00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:40.620 And all of that and kind of maybe was a little bitter, you know, because... 68 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:42.240 That was exactly the temperature at the time. 69 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.759 I enjoyed his portrayal, but I was kind of, you know, why couldn't we have more? 70 00:05:47.819 --> 00:06:10.259 If we'd had another season, we had, like he, he was having teething problems and it's not until, say, the doctor dances that you kind of go, well, I think we've said this, well, at least you and Brendan and Richard have said this in those episodes that that's where he really feels like he's getting the role. 71 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:13.920 But it's like any doctor coming in. 72 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:23.399 There's always a shakedown period where they're trying things out and then they sort of, there's a moment where they completely click and from that moment on, there's there's no dull beats, you know? 73 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:23.819 Yeah. 74 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:27.120 And I certainly think around that time, that two-parter onwards. 75 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:28.379 It certainly very clear. 76 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:33.720 And I think that's, that's, it's all coloured by that. 77 00:06:33.779 --> 00:06:49.379 But having rewatched and knowing what's coming, um, and looking at it through eyes that probably hadn't seen those episodes for maybe 5 or 6 years, I really appreciated him in a way that I hadn't before. 78 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:58.620 That's something that I've taken out of this is how much I've appreciated his portrayal as the doctor and what he's actually doing. 79 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:05.579 I think for me, the biggest revelations is how consistent this season is in terms of script, which goes back to what you were saying. 80 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:09.000 Tone and variants as well. 81 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:11.399 It's a very modulated symphonic piece. 82 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:18.660 There's not an episode that I wouldn't go back and rewatch, whereas I can't say that for every other season, necessarily, of the new series. 83 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:25.620 And of course, the other big revelation for me was the dialogue in Bad Wolf, which I'd forgotten like over a 3rd of it. 84 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:29.040 I thought I was coming back to a brand new re-edit of the episode. 85 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:32.699 So that was, I was just there going, what's happened to my brain? 86 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:36.000 And also the other thing is the special effects. 87 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:38.579 I think they do look more dated now and a bit more ropey. 88 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.860 There's still some spectacular ones. 89 00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:48.779 Not saying that there isn't, but I was surprised at certain times where I kind of thought, oh, I thought it would hold up better or I thought it was better at the time. 90 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:55.259 Well, it was great at the time, but I just suddenly went, it's aged a bit compared to what's happening now, bit more than I thought. 91 00:07:55.319 --> 00:08:05.699 It's that thing when you teach kids and they talk about Doctor Who back in the old days when the effects were crappy and you realised they're talking about series one. you know, rather than the 1960s. 92 00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:08.160 I just want to vomit. 93 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.920 But what are the ropey effects if we're already there? 94 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:16.319 I think that there are some really poorly directed moments with the Savine in World War III. 95 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:18.660 I think that they're really quite bad. 96 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:20.579 Who was the director on that one? 97 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:21.180 Keith Boke. 98 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:22.500 We've mentioned him a bunch of young. 99 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:24.899 Chi fans in the end of the world. 100 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:33.419 I think, yeah, those aren't convincing, but I think that I think the idea that the special effects are trying to present a convincing version of reality is wrongheaded. 101 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.159 They're trying to be impressive special effects. 102 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:46.440 We're talking about direction, though, here, because I know how hard it is and I did it for a very small time, but getting the CG right is just time and bankruptcy. 103 00:08:46.500 --> 00:08:48.899 I'm impressed just watching Father's Day again yesterday. 104 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:54.299 How good the vortosaurs are, which I insist on calling them that, because they're an obvious nod, to storm warning. 105 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.159 The chronos 1st story. 106 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:57.600 Aren't they coronavores? 107 00:08:57.659 --> 00:08:59.580 what I want. 1st of all, maybe. 108 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:00.360 So it's the same thing. 109 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:07.679 They exist in the vortex and when Charlie Pollard has them one as a pet because she couldn't get an Australian surfer of heterosexual domain. 110 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.399 I mean, I do agree with you. 111 00:09:11.460 --> 00:09:21.480 I mean, it is budget is time, and I think over time, as the years have gone on, with special effects, you can get better effects more quickly and people have worked out how to do things. 112 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:25.559 I think at certain times here it's the shading, all the shadows and stuff like that. 113 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:32.279 I'm not saying like it's a breaking point or anything like that and they're appalling, but there's a little less reality to it. 114 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:36.120 Like I kind of look at it and go, I just wince a little bit at times. 115 00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:37.860 It's the matching and the green screening. 116 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.080 But that is a visual thing. 117 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:47.580 I care about being able to see the actors' faces, their reaction and how they interplay together and how they play against the FX. 118 00:09:47.639 --> 00:10:00.840 Look at Snow White, or, you know, original animation was not, well, you know, it doesn't stand up to what you're talking about now, but pace, tambler, and pause, that the time that you need for actors to do their work is given it. 119 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:04.799 I think Father's Day is the most successful story that does that, but so is Bad Wolf. 120 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:13.860 And so I can't really think of actually any stories other than the directors that you just talked about, Mr. Bogue stories, where that doesn't really happen in this season. 121 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:19.679 I think now the special effects are trying to be realer. 122 00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:31.679 And, you know, there is a type of special effect where you don't realise it's a special effect where they'll match something out or, you know, do something like that when you think about, you know, Mad Max Fury Road. 123 00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:40.139 There weren't many special effects, but most of them were things like wiping out cables and stuff like that, not creating CG worlds, like Phantom Menace or something. 124 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:54.899 Whereas something like the end of the world is very much saying, look at our new toys and what we can do, and those special effects, I think, would be spoiled by being so subtle that we didn't realise they were effects. 125 00:10:55.019 --> 00:10:59.700 They needed to be sort of big brash computer effects just to say that's what we can do. 126 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.240 Well, let's just talk about Christopher Eckleston, because this is his retrospective. 127 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:10.620 What do you think his legacy is? 128 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:12.960 Acting. 129 00:11:13.019 --> 00:11:18.179 He gets it right, and I don't believe it's not finding the part. 130 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.519 He said that he wasn't comfortable doing children's. 131 00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:23.820 He saw it as children's television. as did Tom, as did everyone. 132 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:31.019 We actually, everyone, even if we don't necessarily love them, the ones that the majority of the viewers, and that's the reason the show is back on the air. 133 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:32.100 It wasn't made for us. 134 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.120 Let's remember. 135 00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:35.940 All we get is ice hop galaxy on a monitor. 136 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:36.659 That's for us. 137 00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:39.240 The rest of it is for the not we. 138 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:47.580 So, the point of their customs performance, I believe, or the punctiliousness of it and the repetition. 139 00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:50.039 Again, it's very it's very symphonic. 140 00:11:50.100 --> 00:12:04.259 He really does modulate what he's doing and he'll start off, that timorousness or that sense of uncertainty is actually the actor's trope, that he is playing a man who was recently, as he saw it, came into a body. 141 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:22.799 He read, he was very careful with Russell for all that time to consider the time war, and we know that they had complete fan spas, where they all got together into a bubbling round pool of fan chattiness and talked about the character in the development, because that's what a theatre actor does dining. 142 00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:24.120 And then he's how they treated it. 143 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:25.259 You can really feel it. 144 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:29.519 I don't think he's I don't feel that he was coming from a place of uncertainty. 145 00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:30.960 I feel that he was very carefully. 146 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:32.279 Like you mentioned Todd. 147 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:40.259 It's the Colin Baker principle of starting off cool and warming him up as he comes into it as he gets used to being here as we get used to him. 148 00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:42.960 It's a really sterling performance watching them again. 149 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:47.639 And I think that's the reason the series went so well afterwards for so long. 150 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:49.440 Nathan? 151 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:51.720 I think that Richard's right. 152 00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:55.740 And I want to take another kind of look at it. 153 00:12:55.799 --> 00:13:01.860 Every time the story comes out that the doctor's leaving and we're going to cast a new doctor, we get, it'll be Ken Dodd. 154 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:06.179 It'll be Jeanette Cranky, you know, like it'll be someone hilarious from TV. 155 00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:16.440 And partly, I think, too, that it was a result of the idea in the 80s that it was a job for a light entertainment star. 156 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:22.620 And it was really important, I think, to Russell that it was a proper actor. 157 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:39.059 And Eccleston was such a proper actor that it seemed unlikely that he would even agree to do it, despite having worked with Russell before, on a project, which is the 2nd coming, that is not that dissimilar from his role as Doctor Who. 158 00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:43.919 And it turned out, he was an actor who wasn't going to stick ground for the part. 159 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:55.259 And so I think we were super lucky to have him for the short time that we did the sort of crankiness that we get from the sort of behind the scenes stories. 160 00:13:55.320 --> 00:14:00.059 Maybe that's the flip side of the kind of actor he was. 161 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:16.559 And that kind of discomfort with the role, which I think is visible, is a good thing because I think that this season, and I have said it before, doesn't know whether it's going to be successful. 162 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:18.360 It doesn't know what it's going to be. 163 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:22.620 They're making this without realising that in a few months time. 164 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.379 It's going to be the biggest show on British television. 165 00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:29.519 And so there's no complacency here. 166 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:35.580 They're all really bringing their A game and trying as hard as possible. 167 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:37.679 And I think that's why this season's good. 168 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.799 And I think that that's why Eccleston is so good. 169 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:43.559 James. 170 00:14:44.100 --> 00:15:02.159 I would tend to agree with Nathan that it's having such a serious actor in the role really did make the entire production team work that much harder to try and make a success. 171 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:14.759 And it also proved to the viewing audience that Doctor Who is a serious, or at least back then it was a serious program that had to, you know, had good actors. 172 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:21.899 It wasn't, you know, that sort of fondly remembered creaky TV show that had those sort of be great actors. 173 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:29.100 You know, which is how the viewing public remembered it, rightly or wrongly, wrongly. 174 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:38.639 And so casting such a well-regarded actor in the role, I think, is it probably actually made it survive. 175 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:49.740 I don't think you could have cast. someone not of his higher calibre without, um, without it possibly not having been renewed the next season. 176 00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:53.399 So it's changing the perception of the public of what the show actually is. 177 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:58.320 His job is so much harder than anybody's come after him apart from Jody. 178 00:15:58.379 --> 00:15:59.399 Yeah. 179 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:05.100 It's like Pat, you know, like Pat is there to prove that the doctor can be a new actor. 180 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.879 Chris proves that the show works in the 21st century. 181 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.480 Again, yes, I agree with all that you're saying. 182 00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:19.860 He sets a benchmark for everybody who comes after him to realise that you have to take this seriously. 183 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:21.299 You have to bring your A game. 184 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.799 You can be funny, you can be heartbreaking, you can be angry. 185 00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:32.580 And I think without that, you know, the performances of his successes may not be what we actually ended up getting. 186 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.940 Well, Christopher's one part of the of the duo, that is the stars of the show. 187 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.139 The other one is Billy Piper. 188 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.320 Let's talk about belief for a moment in the role of Rose. 189 00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:47.879 What did Billy bring to the table? 190 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:49.740 Oh, the fact that we've still got a show. 191 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.039 I only look at her when she's on. 192 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:55.559 Is that Charlie Brooker game? 193 00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:56.879 Have we mentioned it before? 194 00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:01.080 Where you're looking at her and trying to decide which of her facial features is the biggest? 195 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:02.460 Since she's done the work. 196 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.400 When she comes back, spoiler alert, and it really is. 197 00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:09.420 Oh, my God, why are they using an anamorphic lens on her shots? 198 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:10.980 Oh my god, no, it's her new tea. 199 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:11.940 That's weird. 200 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.980 But I'm not even a fan. 201 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:14.640 I'm really not. 202 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:19.079 I couldn't care less, but of anything she does outside. blithely disinterested. 203 00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:21.539 Didn't even know who she was or that she'd had a recording career. 204 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.420 Of course, you know, hey, BBC listener. 205 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:33.240 But sticking her on there, the subtleties, she gives Eccles heart and warmth and she's the reason the doctorates were propelled. 206 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:38.039 And the reason we're actually interested in the doctor is the character of Rose and it is Billy's performance. 207 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:44.099 Because when she says to him, I know you, and she throws the line really nicely, not dwelling on it, because she's not cruel, you're sad. 208 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.819 You will disappear and you'll be waiting for me at that box and I'm going to make you wait a long time. 209 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.980 That didn't mean to sound as naughty as it just did. 210 00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:55.319 She brings some real kind of TV style realism to the part. 211 00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:57.839 She's just a bloody good naturalist actor. 212 00:17:57.900 --> 00:17:58.740 Yeah, yeah. 213 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:00.480 I just can't get over. 214 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:11.940 I'm sure I said this just a couple of weeks ago. that on the weakest link, The success of that entire sequence just hinges on her performance, you know, she's amused and then terrified. 215 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.460 She's so good. 216 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.599 She's so terrific. 217 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.420 And she'll be great again next year. 218 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.900 I just think she's extraordinary and we were really lucky to have her. 219 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.759 I actually don't remember the bit where all the fans said, oh, she's a pop star, Shelby Crap, you know, what's going on. 220 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:27.420 Oh yes. 221 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:28.319 I don't remember that. 222 00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:32.160 All the forums were lit up again. was Christmas every day. 223 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.759 I had a moment where I thought you were going to say, oh, she's back with Jody next year. 224 00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:40.019 Ooh, better get a bit late seasons, Buffy, wouldn't it? 225 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:42.480 Which one's the witch? 226 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:51.660 I think one of the things in rewatching this is that Rose is a lot more selfish and quite unlikeable at times. 227 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.559 Like, how she's treating Mickey and various... 228 00:18:55.619 --> 00:19:04.619 And I didn't realise that it was quite like that, but that's one of the biggest revelations I got, but her performance throughout the entire season. 229 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:16.019 There's just a realism and a grounding that she brings to the role that even despite those things in rose, you can't help but love the character and that's because of what she brings to the part as an actress. 230 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:16.980 Yeah. 231 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:23.160 I remember being disappointed in the end of the world when she gets knocked on the head and then just sort of recovers. 232 00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:32.160 You know, like you get smacked on the head by one of the adherents of the repeated meme and everyone knows that you go straight to A and E and, you know, have concussion and things. 233 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:36.000 And she had been so sort of TV realistic up to that point. 234 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:43.500 I thought, oh, really, is she going to be menaced and thrown downstairs and knocked unconscious and stuff, like used to happen back in the classic series? 235 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:50.460 And in fact, she more or less avoided that and did get to be like a person reacting to this stuff. 236 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:54.299 And the other characteristic she has is that she's really smart. 237 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.440 Like, she is quick to work out what's going on. 238 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:05.819 So she does seem to be a more well-rounded character than we've had before, I think. 239 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.900 She's a clever person, even though she doesn't necessarily have like an education. 240 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:10.680 Yeah, that's exactly it. 241 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:11.400 She's not an idiot. 242 00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:11.880 Yeah. 243 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:12.960 I think that's that's right. 244 00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:22.619 And, you know, when they bring in Pete, they make Pete smart. like clever at working out what's going on and that's where Rose sort of seems to get it from. 245 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:27.359 And so already we've got a character who has some personality traits. 246 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:37.319 She isn't just from the Sever team or a time lady or a journalist whose character is more or less completely defined by the actor's performance. 247 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:43.019 She is actually a person with more personal characteristics. 248 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:44.220 And I think that's a step up. 249 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.259 James, do you have anything to add? 250 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.359 Look, I have seen. 251 00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:55.799 I mean, I'm one of those fans who, when they see someone in Doctor Who will go, where have I seen them before? 252 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:57.599 I would like it, where can I see them? 253 00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:03.420 And so I did seek out a lot of her television following this. 254 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.099 Well, I assume she didn't really have a TV. 255 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:05.819 Really in the smoke? 256 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:15.960 Yeah, so I did track down Ruby and the Smoke and Secret Diver, Call Girl, and various other things that she'd done. 257 00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:19.980 And it's not just Doctor Who. 258 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:21.720 She is a bloody good actress. 259 00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:27.359 I've seen her in Penny Dreadful, and she is a consumptive prostitute. 260 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:33.539 She's struggling with her new teeth and an Irish accent, which is really quite terrible, but she still manages. 261 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.980 So often go together, don't they? 262 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.259 She still manages to do an amazing job. 263 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:38.279 She is very good. 264 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:44.579 Strawberry avoid. 265 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:45.539 The Lady Cassandra. 266 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.480 Trisha Delaney, Margaret Slavine. 267 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:53.700 I'd snug Trisha Delaney because I was having trouble getting over Rose. 268 00:21:56.700 --> 00:22:07.440 I think I would avoid the Lady Cassandra, because she'd outlive me and probably make me into a kaftan or something. 269 00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:12.240 A high waisted evening jacket with Chanel buttons. 270 00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:14.640 Or a blue Kagool. 271 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.119 That leaves you with Margaret Slovine. 272 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:25.740 Oh, I marry Margaret Slippin because I just loving it Badland and everything I've ever seen her in. 273 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.759 And he'd end up being the lady mayoress of Cardiff as well if he did that. 274 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.160 Or her handbag. 275 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:41.039 There's another aspect I'd like to talk about, which is the console room, which we just see, the room itself for budgetary reasons. 276 00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:45.720 What was our initial impressions of that when we saw it and what do we think of it now? 277 00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:48.960 Look, it was so refreshing at the time. 278 00:22:49.019 --> 00:23:15.240 I, as a classic series fan, as we all are in this room, you expect it to be this modern, white, Spartan technological space and the boldness of reinventing that in an sort of organic, coral, sort of crystalline kind of way was so different from everything that's gone before. 279 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:23.819 I think the problem with that is that that established for every console room since. 280 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:46.500 You know, we have to go with dark and moody instead of modern and and the closest you get is the late Matt Smith and the Capoldi console room, which is the closest you get to the classic series, in that it's obviously technological, but it's still dark and brooding. 281 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:52.079 And I think that makes the whole show dark and brooding after a while. 282 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:54.599 I wasn't taken with it at 1st. 283 00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:56.039 I was actually quite anti-it. 284 00:23:56.099 --> 00:24:04.680 I guess in my head, I thought they'd either go very classic, like the white one, or they'd go like a telly movie, much more like Jules Verne type sort of thing. 285 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:10.920 So it was it was a shocking surprise to me to see what they went with and it took me quite a while to sort of warm to it. 286 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:19.859 I think that the attempts in later designs to be quirky are terribly tiresome. 287 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.440 And Matt Smith's 1st console room. 288 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:24.599 I think is horrific. 289 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:32.579 And I think Capaldi's console room is a little bit too TV moving a little bit too self-consciously Jules Verne. 290 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:39.000 And so this is technological without being sort of 60s kind of modernist technological. 291 00:24:39.240 --> 00:25:01.200 It doesn't have the skill or ambition of the original design, but I think it's very good, and I think it does the job of telling us what the doctor is like because this is where the doctor lives, and in this enormous space, he is a very small figure. 292 00:25:01.259 --> 00:25:05.700 So the console tells us that the doctor is lonely. 293 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:07.259 Just to look at it. 294 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.720 It's not a homely place. 295 00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:13.440 It's not stuffed full of sofas and lovely books to read. 296 00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:23.519 It's a dark place that should have more people in it and should be more brightly lit, but it doesn't because the doctor's on his own. 297 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:33.599 And I think it also serves to reinforce at the doctor's working class with the sort of metal grating. you know, the kind of roughness to it, that it's... 298 00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:36.539 Well, it's the job of a mechanic to run it, not a computer programmer. 299 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.319 And I think that that's another good thing as well. to the north. 300 00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:42.299 Yeah, I get a lot of that. 301 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:54.779 Look, my main disappointment when I saw it was, oh, you're just taking Jeffrey Sax's principles. of the overarching um flying buttresses meeting the console and you just you just taking out the steampunk. 302 00:25:54.779 --> 00:26:08.339 And I thought the oversimplicity of the mushroom set, the big dome wasn't going to lead to interesting shots, and the murkiness of it is just like every fanboys dig when they're a student. a lot of it was nice. 303 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.859 It works as a film set. 304 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:29.880 I actually prefer the Philip Siegel one, even though I know all of the rest of it and was doing all the Victoriana steampunk stick that we really don't like, but it just had a more interesting dynamics around the certain ways to shoot it and would have been more engaging as a long term. 305 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:31.920 Because we've got that same principle. 306 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:34.920 And that's what's really disappointed me with the Jody set, but we won't go there now. 307 00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:43.319 Um, look, I really like what you're saying about isolating the doctor or the sense that this is an alien thing that the Titus never was before. 308 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.420 It certainly works for what the show's trying to do. 309 00:26:54.480 --> 00:27:00.779 I think this is a really hard question. to answer, because there's so many strengths to this season. 310 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:02.880 I was thinking about asking you all. 311 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:09.180 If you eliminate Christopher and Billy, who is the MVP on screen? 312 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.000 But there's just so many people you could choose. 313 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.859 Yeah. 314 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.240 Yep, that's my answer. 315 00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:16.140 The correct answer? 316 00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:17.759 What does MVP mean? 317 00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:18.960 Most valued player. 318 00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:20.160 It's a sports thing, James. 319 00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:21.359 I don't do sports ball. 320 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:22.440 Sports ball, yes. 321 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.380 I don't do sports. 322 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.960 Okay, and your favourite guest star of the year. 323 00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:31.619 I actually really love Sean Dignant, I really love. 324 00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:36.119 The way Rose is rounded out by seeing both parents. 325 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.339 And Camille's performance in Father's Day is fabulous. 326 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:47.519 She really does drama very nicely and angry, not very bright, vituperous person. 327 00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:50.940 And then we can see how she developed to the person she is now. 328 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.480 I think she's one of the, she's really a great performer. 329 00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.880 Yeah, there's some real good proper acting. 330 00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.460 She's playing 2 different characters in Paris Day. 331 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.099 And she's different in each role. 332 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.839 And, you know, she's someone who, I said this before, I think, too. 333 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:13.920 She would never have been in a Doctor Who story before, she would never have watched Doctor Who if it was on. 334 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:18.480 She's someone from a completely different world and she just works so well. 335 00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:21.599 And she's there's a real warmth. 336 00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:30.180 One of the things that made me sad when I heard that Billy was leaving the show, was that I didn't think that they would find a way of bringing Camille back. 337 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.779 And so I thought that that would be the last that we'd see of Jackie. 338 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.660 And I'm glad I was wrong, spoiler alert. 339 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:41.579 She is an absolute revelation and probably the best thing about the season. 340 00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:43.259 James? 341 00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:47.640 I agree that Sean Dingwall is great. 342 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:49.980 And I think that's possibly because he comes back. 343 00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:51.960 And next season. 344 00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:53.640 Well, I'm not thinking towards the future. 345 00:28:53.759 --> 00:29:00.299 Yeah, but I mean, to me, to me, he has so much potential in this story, which is realised in series two. 346 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:07.980 Um, my favourite guest star of the season is um, Florence Hoth. 347 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:12.480 Oh, she's wonderful in Empty Child of Doctor Dances. 348 00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:25.140 Not just because she's a very good actress and plays that part with such, I don't know, like warmth and realism. and yet power as well. 349 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.000 I want to keep calling her Florence Horter. 350 00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:28.200 That would be wrong. 351 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:52.500 But also, the character, when you realise towards the end of the 2nd episode that she had a child out of wedlock and she's been struggling without her entire life and that, you know, the societal judgement that she had to hide her son away as her brother. 352 00:29:52.559 --> 00:30:03.779 That character just really, having studied history for a long time, especially 20th century history and knowing that period so well. 353 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:06.720 That character just resonated with that, I think. 354 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.180 I love Murray's music. 355 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:17.339 I think it's impossible to imagine the 1st 10 seasons of the new series without him. 356 00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:23.039 I think there are lots of issues with it in the mix in series one. 357 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:27.900 I find that quite often you can't hear any dialogue. 358 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:35.579 Maybe, look, maybe that's on rewatching it or the way it's been remastered for Blu-ray. 359 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:43.380 I don't know, but the music itself is joyous, it's exciting, adventurous. 360 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:48.720 It's pitched exactly where Russell, I think, intended it to be. 361 00:30:48.779 --> 00:30:50.160 That's why he chose Murray. 362 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:52.559 He worked with Murray before on queer folk. 363 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:56.759 It encapsulates the show that he's making. 364 00:30:56.819 --> 00:30:59.279 And I don't think you can imagine the new series without it. 365 00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.619 I love Murray's music, but there was a really extraordinary article. 366 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.359 I don't know if any of you guys read it. 367 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:07.859 I dropped it into the chat during the week. 368 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:20.160 It was an article in the New Yorker about the music of Doctor Who, which talked about Segun Archinola's music for the new series and his new version of the theme. 369 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:27.000 And we've been saying in Jody into Terra over the past few weeks that we like the music. 370 00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:33.779 And I found, after 10 years of Murray Gold, that it has been a relief to not be told what to feel. 371 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:45.000 Except that I, we said this before because I think that he has taken the approach and it's with Russell's direction, that his job is to tell us what to feel. 372 00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:49.200 And that's one of the roles of incidental music. 373 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:56.220 And it's a particularly kind of Star Wars-y, you know, a big bombastic genre. 374 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.059 Very John Williams. 375 00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:57.660 Yeah. 376 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:08.160 And you can see that they do want to get away from sort of weird plinky kind of see devil's music because that's kind of alienating. 377 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:14.279 And while they're introducing it to a new audience and a broad audience, they're trying to be conservative. 378 00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:16.859 And I think that they took the right approach. 379 00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.380 That's not what Verity did though. 380 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.759 No, no, that's quite right. 381 00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:21.240 I agree. 382 00:32:21.299 --> 00:32:36.000 The New Yorker article cites Malcolm Cole, which I think is the worst piece of scoring to have ever been done for the history of the series for the sea devils, because all I'm aware of is the terrible score, and it overwrites the action to the point that I'm dissociated from what I'm seeing. 383 00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:48.599 However, there's no mention of Tristram Carey, who we've mentioned before in the old days as being, I think, one of the greatest 20th century electronic composers, and his score for the Daleks, his score, even for the mutants later on. 384 00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:52.380 Just beautiful and censorious and odd and strange. 385 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.599 But I'm getting this now. 386 00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:59.519 This feels like Carrie with the new series with Carrie and Dudley Simpson. 387 00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:01.859 Yeah, the underscoring in the subtleties. 388 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.339 I like that, but I do love Murray's approach. 389 00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:07.259 And I do think it was the right approach. 390 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.519 I agree, I agree for this season. 391 00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:09.539 It's the right approach. 392 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.099 Maybe not for 10 seasons. 393 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:11.940 No, no. 394 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.380 The the reimagining of the the theme tune is fantastic. 395 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:22.980 And all the little personal themes, especially Rose's theme, just underscore everything, and I just think it's beautiful. 396 00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.180 All right, it's not Mary Avoya. 397 00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:40.680 The Temple of Peace, St. 398 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.559 Albion's Hospital, and the Powell Estate. 399 00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:49.500 I don't think you give me all the warm relationship alternatives here. architectural things. 400 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.980 You know all things about architecture. pretend to. 401 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:57.539 I really love the hospital, the Alban hospital and it was a hospital, wasn't it? 402 00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.319 It's the genuine thing. 403 00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.099 It's just gorgeous. 404 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:00.720 And you get Richard Wilson as a surprise. 405 00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:03.240 And, you know, he's a great recontour. 406 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:04.079 He's a great wit. 407 00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:08.159 Believe me, he's his autobiography and I thoroughly recommend everyone run out and listen to it. 408 00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:09.179 You can get it on audible. 409 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:13.380 And he grew up with Sean Connery and plays tennis to this day, so a great pair of pins. 410 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:18.960 So I'm definitely marrying that hospital with Dr. Constantine as it's cracker delight. 411 00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:23.340 The other one was the was that decon platform one, wasn't it? 412 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:24.780 Which is an empty cold set. 413 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:30.179 I don't think that's going to offer me much except, you know, the opportunity of leaving Bruno behind. 414 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.840 So that in itself is a reason to leave it alone. 415 00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:35.039 And what was the 3rd one, Todd? 416 00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:36.900 The Palestate. 417 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:38.639 The Palestate. the Palestate. 418 00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:41.280 Oh, that means I have to snog. 419 00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:43.199 Mind you, there's a lot of totty on the Palestate. 420 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:48.659 There's all those, you know, there's all those lubatorium and mechanical offices just next door. 421 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:49.619 I mean, where does Mickey work? 422 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.059 He works at the Palace State. 423 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:52.920 Yeah, no, I'm fine with the Palacedale. snog that. 424 00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:53.940 Why not? 425 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:54.900 Excellent. 426 00:34:55.619 --> 00:35:05.579 So sitting here now, thinking about each of those episodes, as a snapshot, there's a moment in the episode that stands out in your head, right? 427 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:10.860 A moment, maybe visual, align, something from each of those that sits with you. 428 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.119 Do you know where I'm going with this? 429 00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:12.659 Yep. 430 00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:13.320 All right. 431 00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:14.820 Rose. 432 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:17.400 It's the bride Autons. 433 00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:29.820 I said this on the actual podcast itself, the realisation that because autons were mannequins, they could be wearing dresses and that would be deeply hilarious. 434 00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:30.659 So it's that. 435 00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:35.519 Oh, for me, it was it's Camille. 436 00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:40.139 When she sexualises the doctor and his reaction to it. 437 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.780 I'm thinking, what would pert we do? 438 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.679 He'd probably jump right in. 439 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.900 It was really shocking and surprising. 440 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.119 I thought, my goodness, we are in the 21st century. 441 00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.619 It's an amazing scene. 442 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:53.519 James? 443 00:35:53.519 --> 00:36:16.440 Mine would have to be the scene towards the end of the episode where Rose does the whole speech about winning the bronze in the gymnastics and saves the day by thinking, like thinking on her feet and going, well, you know, the doctors being held captive, Mick is useless. 444 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.480 I have to save the world. 445 00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.579 And I just love that scene. 446 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:31.679 It's kind of like, look, this character is not just going to scream and fall down, like so many before her, she is a, like, she's a driving force in the, in the narrative of, of this story. 447 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:36.239 Okay, for me, it's Camille in the bedroom, blow drying a hair. 448 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:43.860 Like, that's, you know, when the doctor walks in, that's, that's, that's, that, that just, so it is that potent that, you know, I thought it was just me. 449 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.539 Good, good. anything could happen. 450 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.320 All right. 451 00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:47.159 End of the world. 452 00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:49.860 It's Britney. 453 00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.019 Yeah, toxic. 454 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:52.679 Yeah, yeah. 455 00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.539 And the iPod and all of that sort of joke. 456 00:36:54.599 --> 00:37:00.599 The realisation that the future's not going to be sort of drab space corridors, it's going to be clever and funny. 457 00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:02.159 Richard. 458 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.260 Oh, Mrs. Wood. 459 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.800 Mrs. Tree when she gives him, you know, the exchange a bit of wood. 460 00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:09.539 I just love the actress. 461 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:11.639 I'm sorry, I can't remember who it is. off the top of my head. 462 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.239 The woman. 463 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:12.900 Yasmin Bannum. 464 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:13.500 Yes, madam. 465 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:15.059 Of course, we own her now. 466 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:19.199 She's doing Blake 7 Big Finish audios as the non-Dana. 467 00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:20.400 The non-data Dana. 468 00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:34.199 And she's superb, and she's marvellous in this, and again, we've got a flirty doctor, and it's really poultritudinous and cheeky, and she does a lot of pouty mouth action, and he does a lot of cool introspective northern I could be up for this eye action back at it. 469 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:34.980 It's just so exciting. 470 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:41.820 And then they go and have a lovely testament to wood chipping industries and how and how cruel they are. 471 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:48.360 I think it was, it's the just that establishing shot of the space station. 472 00:37:48.420 --> 00:38:08.099 Um, and and and the ships flying in and going, as somebody who, like all of us grew up watching this show when it wasn't quite so uh, highly produced and and, you know, we look back at it now and go, oh, these special effects look a bit, don't you love, didn't you get that moment where the rings were a bit nerve a beacon? 473 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.420 that little moment. 474 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.739 Yes. 475 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:19.559 But when I rewatched the episode for the podcast, hey, there were other shots that I thought, well, this doesn't quite stand the test of time. 476 00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:29.639 I think that one still does because it's so iconic and it's and it's the 1st time you get to go, well, this is what this show can do now. 477 00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:36.179 And it's still, it's still to this day, is one of the most impressive shots in the show. 478 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.179 Okay, it's either the giant fans. 479 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:42.539 The doctor having to go through them, which I think is just hilarious. 480 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:46.559 It just cracked me up and it's the moment that spider hits the television camera. 481 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:47.579 Oh, yeah. 482 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:48.420 That's genius. 483 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.800 It's a Doctor Who fan, you know? 484 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:52.079 Okay, I'm Quiet Dead. 485 00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:54.960 I have no memory of that episode. 486 00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:56.760 Was it a bit tiresome? 487 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:58.980 What Phantasmagore area is this? 488 00:38:59.039 --> 00:38:59.880 the only thing I can remember. 489 00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:03.780 My moment, sir, with Gwen and Rose. 490 00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:34.079 Again, it's when the actors are doing a beautiful piece and Gwen is talking, they're talking about boys, and it's really poignant and, you know, you're getting to see the, well, just the opening of a person who is so restricted in their lives, but you can say, oh, yes, we look at, Well, I wouldn't know about that, madam, but then she talks about being able to read rows and the steel planes in the sky and that is to her more displacing and more shocking and more revelatory than actually talking about the sexualising of life, which was utterly forbidden. 491 00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:41.159 So there's just these layers of a girl then and the girl from now, and that's really a beautiful, poignant scene. 492 00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:43.980 And yeah, that's the 1st thing that comes to mind for me. 493 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:49.739 All right, and the two-parter, moments from that, from Aliens of London, World War II. 494 00:39:49.800 --> 00:40:19.739 It's the scene where a toddler is crawling on the doctor's lap and he's trying to get the toddler out of the way so that he can watch television, and it is because nothing ever remotely like that had ever been in Doctor Who before, and it's emblematic of that 2 parter, which is absolutely extraordinary, the best alien invasion, either since the invasion or to date, because you just never know what it's going to do next. 495 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.920 It's amazing, incredibly great story. 496 00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:39.300 I like the way that he takes to Harriet and as he does through all of these stories where it's not necessarily the underdog, it's the person who is meek and who is hesitant to speak, but they actually are the person who is going to reform and rebuild. 497 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:40.800 In fact, all of these stories. 498 00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:59.159 I'm quite astounded at how socialist the base of this is, if you'll indulge me, because the powers that be, I would say, are conservative, in that they are reductive, in that they are formalised, and that they do not listen to anything that is peripheral, they have a, they have a direction, and that's what they stick to. 499 00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:01.079 The doctor never does that. 500 00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:05.460 It used to, only even in Pertweese day, where we saw him. 501 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:11.340 I suppose most is the antithesis of the Eccleston doctor, I don't remember him doing what Eccleston does. 502 00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:12.300 He does it slightly. 503 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:20.699 He does it with Bilal, but he does, but there's this lovely moment of, no, the doctor recognises Penelope Wilton's character and listens and that's what changes the world. 504 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.719 And though Rose does it first. 505 00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:34.619 I think my favourite scene is uh, it's Margaret Slithine, confronting the doctor and him saying, you know, I'm going to stop you and her going, what, you in your box? 506 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:39.719 That's a great confrontation is all just done with looks and dialogue. 507 00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:41.280 And good actors. 508 00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:49.320 Yes, it just sort of encapsulates his sort of fighting against oppression against sort of... 509 00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:50.519 I mean, look, that's the other thing. 510 00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:56.519 So, I mean, aren't really defined as evil per se just as like capitalists. 511 00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:57.360 Yeah, yeah. 512 00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:58.500 They're just hyper capitalist. 513 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:00.599 Yeah, and capitalist. 514 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:01.679 Invading capitalist. 515 00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:03.000 Mainland Chinese business. 516 00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:03.840 So evil. 517 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.099 Like capitalism. 518 00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:13.199 But capitalism taking to a 10th degree without, you know, with no consideration for life or... 519 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:14.159 Yeah, that'd be crazy. 520 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:19.739 Imagine if we've had it up for fuel and didn't care that we were all going to die. crazy stuff. 521 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:26.039 I guess for me the moments that stick in my mind are Harriet Jones MP for flying down north. 522 00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:27.659 Yep. know who you are. 523 00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.719 Um, and... 524 00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:39.239 In the 2nd episode, it's that shot of the missile. streaking through London. 525 00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:46.380 I just, I, that's just something that just, yeah, that just sticks in my mind and it's the little pig running away too. 526 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.360 That's the other thing in episode, the 1st episode. 527 00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:49.260 That is awesome. 528 00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:00.119 Dalek, the long game and Father's Day. 529 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.780 Is there something that sticks out in your mind from those 3 episodes? 530 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:22.079 I actually think for me, the best moment in that episode is the framing story in Father's Day, the one that's told into different versions by Jackie, and the way that that story fixes the history of Pete's death. 531 00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:36.360 And I said this in the episode in our Father's Day episode and I was tearing up as I was mentioning up not only because of the fact that Pete doesn't die alone, but that the person driving the car gets forgiven in that. 532 00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:39.119 And I think it's an extraordinarily beautiful thing. 533 00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:40.440 I think it's Paul. 534 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:42.539 You know, I think Paul Cornell's responsible for that. 535 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:43.800 And it's great. 536 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:51.239 I guess for me, it's having Rick Astley play never going to give you up in the music track of that episode. 537 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:52.739 Oh, actually, that is better. 538 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:53.219 You're right. 539 00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.039 James? 540 00:43:56.039 --> 00:44:05.820 I think I touched on this in our episode on Dalek is the way that they obviously went... 541 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:09.599 Well, what did what did the general public think was crap about the Daleks? 542 00:44:09.659 --> 00:44:11.460 Let's turn everything on its head. 543 00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:29.699 Um, which ostensibly was, was, uh, Rob Sherman's wife having, like he robbed, apparently chatted to his wife and asked her, what did you think was crap about these things and, and she gave him a list and he debunked every, every one of them in the episode. 544 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:32.340 That's why she gets a Dalek Wrangler credit. 545 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.300 Does she? 546 00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:33.719 No. 547 00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:34.500 Oh. 548 00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:38.460 She's the one that sticks the ramp on the stairs. 549 00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.280 Yeah, she now's the plywood. 550 00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:43.019 The green the green screen ram. 551 00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.139 Okay, the empty child, the doctor dances Boomtown. 552 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.480 I'll just start off. 553 00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:50.340 I guess where's my mummy? 554 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:59.699 And for the mayor, one is just a hilarious chase of chasing Margaret Slovene up and down that corridor, she materialises in and out and in and out. 555 00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:05.280 All right, and the final two, two-parter, is there something that really stands out for you? 556 00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:09.000 I think it is those TV shows. 557 00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:33.659 I think, you know, when you don't know exactly what Doctor Who's going to be like in the 21st century, suddenly seeing that it just openly satirises 3 TV shows that are huge and popular in 2005 and doesn't explain it, there's no kind of space reason why this is happening. 558 00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:42.780 It's happening because the audience watching the show also in 2005 and the show is created and directed at them. 559 00:45:42.840 --> 00:46:10.619 And I think that explicit kind of postmodern approach where the show is being written as a television event that will take place sometime in the middle of 2005, I think, is so daring and so interesting for Doctor Who, and it manages to be funny and clever and so confident, you know, so incredibly confident and ambitious. 560 00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:17.039 And for that reason, that 2 parter is just one of my favourite pieces of Doctor Who ever. 561 00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:24.599 And I think, unlike you, Todd, I have the entirety of bad wolf seared into my memory. 562 00:46:24.659 --> 00:46:31.739 I could do a performance of it for you. here on the sofa at a moment's notice. 563 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.000 I think it's an incredible achievement. just extraordinary. 564 00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:40.679 So that's your favourite episode of the season? 565 00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:51.719 I think it might be my favourite episode ever, but it is my favourite episode of the season with an honourable mention for Aliens of London, World War III. 566 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:53.159 Okay. 567 00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:55.500 You want to do favourite episodes? 568 00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:56.699 What's what we're going to do? 569 00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:57.480 Oh, okay. 570 00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:03.239 Well, it depends what we're looking for if you want my favourite Doctor Who episode. 571 00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:15.659 It's probably Dalek because it rebuilds the whole mythos, if you've been saying, of what Doctor Who is and surprises us all and waggles the finger of opprobrium and says, you see, we're a lot better than you thought we were. 572 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.000 And we were always a bit better than you thought we were. 573 00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:22.559 But if you're talking about heart and feeling, Father's Day is extraordinary. 574 00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:30.780 And if you're talking about venturesome, open-eyed, wonder, um, aliens of London, World War 3, and on the end of the world gives me all of those things. 575 00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.300 End of the World is Galaxy Quest on a budget. 576 00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:34.260 It's that much fun. 577 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:38.159 Especially the fans that they have to get through. 578 00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:41.460 Why do we have these chumpy, chumpy things? 579 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.599 That's great. 580 00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.659 I think that episode is often overlooked. 581 00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.119 Not underrated, just overlooked difference. 582 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:54.900 I think Bad Wolf is my favourite episode. funny or surprising or because it's so contemporaneous? 583 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:55.980 And it's so fresh. 584 00:47:56.340 --> 00:47:58.199 He's never seen it before. 585 00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:04.320 I find it very difficult with series one to actually fault anything. 586 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.780 It works as a whole for me. 587 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:23.699 Like, it builds over the course of the series, I think it works as a single story in that if you're following rose as your like point of reference for the show, that whole 1st season is rose's adventure. 588 00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:26.039 And so I find it very difficult to go. 589 00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:27.179 Well, this one's my favourite. 590 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:27.900 That one's my favourite. 591 00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:33.780 I find something to enjoy in all of them, even the ones which are a bit clunky. 592 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.000 I think it's what Richard said earlier. 593 00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:51.300 Richard used the word symphonic to describe this season, and I think that that is exactly right, that this is one coherent story, that the basic unit of narrative in Doctor Who now is the season and so the unquiet dead. 594 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:54.599 Well, it's not, you know, it has a lot going for it. 595 00:48:54.659 --> 00:49:01.619 I don't enjoy it as much as some other episodes, but the show would be poorer without it. 596 00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:04.500 It's just possible the season wouldn't quite work without it. 597 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:08.880 And so it is one big giant thing. 598 00:49:16.619 --> 00:49:20.340 Russell T Davies has redefined the show. 599 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:24.539 What has he done that new that has improved the series? 600 00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:31.139 I think this is all stuff that I've said before, but I think the 45 minute episodes were an obvious thing. 601 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:36.119 I think that having character-based storytelling was the right thing to do. 602 00:49:36.179 --> 00:49:41.039 Having more women in it than Doctor Who had often had. 603 00:49:41.099 --> 00:50:02.099 So broadening the audience, and mining more of Doctor Who than what people remembered from the 80s or going further afield than the Hinge Cliff era, and including things and approaches that we'd only seen in the 60s or that we'd seen in the Sylvester McCoy era. 604 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:24.719 Just the idea that Doctor Who isn't those 3 years of Doctor Who in the 70s, the Doctor Who can be a lot of things that can be fun and funny and silly and character based, it doesn't have to be deadly, serious science fiction designed simply to provide material for TARDIS with KEA entries. 605 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.179 And so it becomes something that everyone can watch. 606 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.159 And that everyone does watch. 607 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:42.420 It becomes the biggest show on TV because Russell knows television. and knows how to be entertaining and knows how to speak to a general audience. 608 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:46.679 And it's something that Doctor Who had lacked for, you know, a very, very long time. 609 00:50:47.340 --> 00:50:51.539 Is it part of also building this family on the show? 610 00:50:51.599 --> 00:51:00.719 I think that's it too, that the premise of Doctor Who, and I think I've said this 4 or 5 times in different episodes over the last 13 weeks. 611 00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:19.739 The premise of the show is 2 people who travel from place to place, and there's a different guest cast on a different location every week, and yet somehow he creates this semi-regular cast, which is a secret that lets cracked in the early 70s with unit. 612 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:24.360 And that makes the show more grounded and more relatable. 613 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:30.059 It gives the characters more things to do because they have more different people to interact with. 614 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:33.179 It's how rep theatre works. 615 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:42.480 Soap, you mentioned it in one of the podcasts this year, soap and SF for sci-fi, have a lot more in common than the SF audience would like to admit. 616 00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:47.280 This works because it's not really Doctor Who. it's a new show It's the Russell show. 617 00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:50.460 Doctor Who doesn't work when it tries to go dark, Stephen. 618 00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.500 No, not for too long. 619 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:58.440 Even just, you know, the idea that he wouldn't show blood or he wouldn't show human beings shooting one another. 620 00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:01.980 You know, he would never have produced earth shock. 621 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:02.639 No. 622 00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:07.559 No, an earth shock wouldn't look how look how much that would stick out in this season. 623 00:52:07.619 --> 00:52:08.760 It just wouldn't work. 624 00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:11.519 Yes, it's something you just mentioned, Nathan. 625 00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:12.539 Like, he wouldn't show blood. 626 00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:14.820 Like there's times where I've gone, oh, they've been shot. 627 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:15.539 I should be seeing blood. 628 00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:19.920 But I mean, people are very rarely shot with just proper guns in Doctor Who. 629 00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:34.739 The one that I can think of is Mr. Saxon at the end of series 3, where he does break his rule and show a bit of blood, but certainly, you know, you don't get Lytton's hands at the end of Attack of the Sidemen too, that's inconceivable in Modern Doctor Who. 630 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.400 And I think that's good because it wants a broad family audience. 631 00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:44.219 It can't just be for teenage train spotters that we all. 632 00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:09.539 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 633 00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:17.579 We'll actually be taking a break for a bit before coming back at you in the new year with new teeth and our shiny new coverage of Series 2. 634 00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:19.559 That's Billy and the doctor. 635 00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:20.099 That's right. 636 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:20.639 That's weird. 637 00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:28.139 You can keep up with our news at Flight3entirety.com, flights through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts on Twitter. 638 00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:46.500 But between now and then, we'll also be releasing a couple of commentary podcasts, including a very special Christmas episode, and we'll still be on air each week to talk about the new episodes of series 11 in Jody interterra, a Doctor Who flashcast where we dispense hot takes about each week's episode. 639 00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:53.519 You'll find that at Jodyintterterra.com, Jody interterra on Apple Podcasts and at Jody interterra on Twitter. 640 00:53:53.579 --> 00:54:01.079 Over on Bondfinger, you can find commentaries on every film in the James Bond franchise, even a view to a kill. 641 00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:02.460 That's bondfinger.com. 642 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:06.599 Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple podcast and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. 643 00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:13.980 Until next time, may you enjoy a refreshing break between seasons, followed by a triumphant return in the new year. 644 00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:16.380 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 645 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:17.159 Good night. 646 00:54:17.219 --> 00:54:18.360 See you soon. 647 00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:18.900 Good then. 648 00:54:22.019 --> 00:54:31.739 That was Fly through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottomley, James Selwood and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg. 649 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:38.639 This episode, you have to bring your A game, was recorded on the 4th of November 2018 and released on the 25th of November. 650 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:54.960 Just in time for Christmas, FDE Enterprises has released Snog Marrier Void in the form of a customisable card game, featuring all of your favourites, including Eric Seyward, the Planet Bravelox, and every extant episode of the John Wilds era. 651 00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:57.179 Could this have been done without her? 652 00:54:57.239 --> 00:54:58.980 Could you ever see anybody else in the role? 653 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:04.500 What do you think of her performance in this particular season in chemistry with Christopher? 654 00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:08.820 I think it was a major industry disappointment that Jeanette Cranky was not cast. 655 00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:11.340 It's a core role with Ken Dodd as the lead. 656 00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:13.440 Who's Jeanette Cranky? 657 00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:15.480 She's a yuppy duppy. 658 00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:20.880 She's the one when French and Saunders do Silence of the Lambs and she's in the cage next door. 659 00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:22.679 Oh great. 660 00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:24.480 I mean, that's just a go to. 661 00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:31.079 She plays Safie's midwife in series 5 of Absolutely Fabulous. 662 00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:37.320 And is a husband and wife, comedy Scottish duo that play a man and a little boy. 663 00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:39.239 Oh, yes, I know who she is now. 664 00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:41.639 Little sort of cap. 665 00:55:41.699 --> 00:56:00.059 In the great tradition of British comedy in the way of Jimmy Clitheroe, who was actually a midget, gentleman playing a boy child for 14 years, I think, on BBC radio, or entertaining Archie, where you had a mannequin for almost 20 years on BBC radio and no one blinked. 666 00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:00.960 Okay, thank you. 667 00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:03.059 So was dismal over them. 668 00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:11.699 And that's the grand tradition of British comedic styles that takes us to the comedic elements in this one. 669 00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.679 Yeah, I mean, obviously it should have been someone like that. 670 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:20.219 So what does Billy what did Billy bring to the table? 671 00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:21.960 Oh, the fact that we've still got to show?