And Basil Brush returns at the same time next week.
This is BBC One.
Coming up later at 8 o'clock.
Beryl Reed is amongst the guests joining Terry Wogan for Blankety
Blank, and at 9 p.m. it's good night from him and good night from
him with the 2 Ronnies.
Now, though, we begin an exciting new adventure for the flythrough
entirety team as they join Peter Davidson in Doctor Who meets the
Enlightenment.
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety
the only Doctor Who commentary podcast exhilarated by the
confusion in Janet Fielding's mind.
I'm Nathan.
I'm James.
I'm Colin.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Todd, and I appear to be an anachronistic Dyson that sucked up
Turlo as a spacesuit for this. episode.
Watch for these, watch me stupid plastic head.
So, you're probably like us on the menu screen for the
Enlightenment DVD.
But before we go on, let me welcome friend of the podcast, Colin
Neal, who's joined us here from the UK.
Hi, thanks for joining.
Let me join.
Hey, thanks for joining me. just nervous.
Colin's come all in black as a tribute to Valentine dials.
Exactly.
This bird on my head. won't go away.
That's why you're dressed in black.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a thing.
Did you have to choose an ibis on your head, though.
That's my only question.
We call them beaten chickens here.
So in June 2017, would you believe?
In June 2017, we asked you to vote on 4 possible stories for a
Peter Davison commentary.
Arc of Infinity, Resurrection of the Daleks, 4 to Doomsday, and
Enlightenment.
And the winner with 40% of the vote was Richard's choice
enlightenment.
So that's what we're doing today. fixed it.
It was the Trumpian allegiate vote.
No, you need 40% to win.
No, exactly.
No, he put his thumb on the Google Sheet.
I think friend of the podcast, Stephen Bea voted 3 times for in
line.
Let's have a look at it.
Stephen is well done, Steve.
Checks in them.
Anyway, so we've got our DVD ready to go.
James's finger is hovering over the over the button of the
PlayStation 4 controller.
And we are going to press the play button the next time you hear
me say the code word, hornpipe.
Okay, are we ready?
No, it's not rack.
Okay, all right, everyone, let's get ready to go, James.
Hornpipe.
Help me.
Here comes Doctor Who in the TARDIS.
It's only 12 o'clock.
No one's been drinking.
Haven't I?
Susan Carmen conducts the crankies.
Don't expect anything in life.
Right, right, right.
They're allowed?
They're very few and far between.
Just not on the podcast, apparently.
Yes.
Is she the first?
Is she the 1st woman to write for the show?
Solo, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
The R has a co-writing credit, doesn't it?
And this is the episode where they change the lights to match. very
nice.
This is what this is what Jameson is terribly racist.
It is.
How can ginger be racist?
He was saying that this is how he wanted the TARDIS to look all
the time, as in flattering to his so-called 29-year-old bonds.
And it diminishes the show. yeah Well, it diminishes the size of
his hair, doesn't it?
What do they all come as?
His hair's rather long here, isn't it?
It's whereas Tegan's isn't.
Not until later.
It's like they've all had a go with the garden shears, doesn't
it?
I got the 80s blunt cut was awful.
And what about the costumes?
Can we start on the frocks?
Start what we mean to finish.
I don't mind the poop tube.
She was no fond.
Was she?
She was no fondler of the blue cheese. stuffed into that, isn't
she?
It's my least favourite.
She's got an extra pair of boobs.
She's actually got four.
If you look at them, or at least, or at least three, centric a
Columbus.
She large one underneath.
She was the original concept for Deanna Troy all the time because
Deanna Troy was going to have 3 breasts.
And Gene Ronbury only relented when Marina Surtees asked, how are
they to be arranged?
He is.
I'm actually not Oh my god.
It was whining her up.
She could have worn one as a humble.
When are we doing the TNG podcast?
We're not doing it now, no, we're not doing it.
I've given you everything you've.
Oh, it is you, in it?
In it.
Oh dear.
Always comes in one of those lovely fish scale. mobiles that we
used to have in the 70s.
Remember those?
Those lovely things that used to tinkle and annoy.
And what's he got in his ear?
He's wearing a sequence dress.
He is.
It's such a bad take on this character, like a truly, truly
terrible take on this character.
So he's completely passive.
He can't do anything Whereas before we saw him, he was that sort
of fabulous colonial guy on a sort of plastic plantation
somewhere.
With racial, well, with solid racialist overtones and utter
bastard intent.
Yes.
Yes, but besides not doing anything.
Like previously, he wasn't going to let the doctor do anything
ever.
So here, it's I agree with you, Nathan. such a terrible take.
Well, it's turning him into a science fiction character instead of
a sort of bizarre, homesian kind of weird archetype.
It does remind me a bit of of Q. like the 1st episodes of Q from
the next generation, where Q would be sitting in a similar
colonialist chair and he continued that character the whole way
through, whereas he's just become a vague plot device with a duck
on his head.
At least at least Valentine Dale comes in and just eats the whole
scene.
But why does the Black Guardian have more seem to have more
power.
Like it's just ridiculous.
Because the universe is out of balance.
No, it's a well-known topic in moral philosophy that evil is
actually much better than good, like much cooler.
You ask a manual.
Good to know.
And much more powerful than it.
I mean, what happened in America in 2016.
They do seem to get more work done, don't they?
The, the, yes, the tar covered pigeons.
Chicks and looks so shifty all the time.
It's so good.
I wonder if you squeeze her, she sounds like one of those rubber
chickens.
Janet, because we're watching this with the sound turned down.
I wonder if all her lines have been delivered as the vocal tones
of a rubber chicken.
I'm gonna throw myself against this fricking wall again.
Well, that was that was good coordinator done.
It was, wasn't it?
Coordination by the team out of kilter hair.
Oh, look at his hair.
I think it's competing with the ducks.
One of my favourite things that fanboys do now because he's
complained about Jody Whittaker getting her hair blonded and it's
kind of like, who cares?
What's this?
No doctor in history ever had their hair dye?
No, that's not the colour.
Good Lord intended, is it?
Or bleached and then scrunch permed while in a harness flying with
Bonnie Langford.
Yes, that's real...
That was Colin Baker's real hair colour.
But we had all of those things done except with the Bonnie
Langfords.
Well, there's some stories about conventions, Richard, but you
know. can I say the roundles look so dirty.
I just want to get some cleaning.
I've been going...
It looks like the pointy end of Tegan's head has hollowed them all
out.
She is conical for this story.
Like a big nib.
They're always doing this, aren't they?
Coming out of the box with a torch.
You never saw torches before.
Now they've got these lovely classy cylindrical, earth shocking
and things.
Well, they can only do overlit or underlit.
They couldn't do just right.
This is true.
So, but I do remember our Dave talking about the how much he loved
the lighting in this.
That's our Dave up there.
And Mark, of course, is hogging the scenery.
I don't know how he manages to do that.
Oh, me moves more than anybody else.
Twitching about.
Yeah.
Twitching about and there's several scenes where he just doesn't
blink. from a day.
How many other flightless hat chickens were, you know, hidden
about his person?
makes a man uncomfortable.
I'm annoyed by the way that the uh, that the subtitles misspell
the words suppose every time it appears.
We must mention that constantly then each time because that's got
me angry already and I haven't even noticed it.
I love the way Peter Davidson always ducks down in a hurry.
Oh, yeah, he does it really well.
Right behind, right behind those misspelt cases that say striker.
You know, it's kind of really meant to say that.
They kind of collapses out of shot, doesn't he?
He does.
Inflatable.
It's like airplane.
No, his hair takes slightly longer to go down than he does, which
is...
It's got a drag effect.
Turn your fricking light off if you don't want to be seeing your
nuts.
Oh, whoops.
I never noticed that before.
Oh, everything is an 80s video, isn't it?
Look at Steve Strange fading to gray.
Who made that point?
Was it Pip Madley?
Oh, we all did back in the day.
That was that was common parlance in my playground.
Oh, and you got big hands.
They're so reassuring.
How is he holding the TARDIS?
It just looks wrong.
He's feeling up the...
Isn't it, isn't the camera supposed to be in the light?
Well.
Can she see him?
Creepy.
It's very nice.
There's a whole lot of antigenes in this, isn't there?
There's a whole lot of stagey Shakespeare, silliness in this.
I quite like.
Everyone's full of portentous doom and stuffed doves.
Here's the White Guardians exposition coma.
Exposition coma.
Tick the box, dear listener.
Otherwise, there's Basil.
Who did the frocks for this one?
Young Brandon?
Do we not?
The frocks for this one were done by Dinah Collins.
Yeah, well, who put in a lot of effort.
When the console, um, yeah, yeah, she really wanted to research
the proper historical stuff and the spacesuits we see later on in
the stuff.
Imagineering.
Yes, the stuffed ducks as well, which Cyril Luckam found
hilarious.
Now, the reason that we...
For the palindromes alone, the reason that the concert will just
exploded was Mike, this was Mike Kelt's 1st story on Doctor Who, I
believe, and he was so appalled by it, he asked JNT, do we have
the budget to rebuild it?
And JNT said maybe next season.
And Mike said, right, can I blow it up then?
And so they knew that this was the last time that they were going
to, they were going to use it, which is why in the king's demons
you get lots of close-up shots in the Tartars console room and not
many wide shots because they had to paint over the scorch marks.
Gee, these sailors do live in confined quarters, don't they?
Yes, it must be very rough for them.
It's all Latestian. creating all static.
And there's Turlow wincing because he's right back at school.
Who did the hair for this episode?
we know?
Cyril Lockham.
It actually, yeah, it does actually feel like terror hawks, doesn't
it?
They've all got those really wrong wonkies, misshapen wigs and
just slightly off.
And and the revelation that Turlo's and Andrew Gum with those
eyebrows.
Any story now?
You're right about him not blinking, Colin.
What he got?
What he got on his person that's Superclue, I think.
Another one of Janet's chickens.
So who do we have doing the makeup and hair and makeup?
Hair and makeup is Gene Stewart, and she is joined by Carolyn
Perry for the remainder of the story when we start seeing people
from more cultures, if you like, or impersonating more cultures, as
the case may be.
Appropriating more cultures.
Quite literally because, you know, they're nicking them.
I do love this episode.
I know it's slow and long, but it really just builds up to that
great reveal.
Just the whole concept coming together.
Just, it's really good.
I really loved it at the time.
The pace is great, isn't it?
The slowness of it.
It's sapphire and steel with things happening.
There's Barry from EastEnders.
Ooh, it is too.
Barry from EastEnders. from extras. really good in there.
He's one of the good guys, isn't he?
As a kid, I found this episode quite dull. but I was mourning the
loss of Misa.
Oh, yeah, of course.
It's always a thing isn't it?
Yeah.
And so I actually found...
She would have really added...
She would have stayed in the TARDS.
She would have held that torch with a surety as she stepped out.
Tell me biogenesis would have come in.
That's it.
A major plot point.
It is just an incredible cliffhanger revelation though, isn't it?
Janet looks so disturbed, you answer.
You can see how excited Janet actually is to be in it. smoking
going on in the background too.
Are they smoking?
Yes, uprageous.
That's been smoking for a long time after this, do they?
On British television?
I mean, you can still smoke, but it has to be period smoking.
No, no, we're smoking in resurrection next year.
It's everything in resurrection.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like smoking was not banned at this point in British television.
But it's not technically bad now.
It's just dealt with a plot reason for it.
Oh, hello, yeah.
Mr. Creepy.
How true.
He's good though.
He's very good. grind to date with that guy.
He has that great matinee idol, British thick lips.
Everything's too thick.
What did you say, James?
We're glossing over.
No.
So it looked like it.
Could he read your mind?
Well, what you were thinking, did you, darling?
What a town my thoughts would tell.
God, the sailors are all a bit rough, aren't they?
It's a bit disappointing.
Well, not that one next to Taylor.
Less hello salary.
So hell, no salad.
Have they misspelt mariner as well?
No, no.
So Marin is felt with 2 R's.
That's his name.
Yeah.
It's it's the same confusion we have with Baron as well because
there's 2 people called Baron in the cast.
Hence the title of our flights for entirety episode on this one.
So there's Linda Barron with 2 R's and then that other guy, Keith
Barron with one.
Is that right?
Or the other way around, possibly.
And Keith Barron is, is her mother, yes.
Yes, yes.
That's right.
But there's a story, isn't there, about, we had to remount the
shoot.
Does anyone remember this?
Yes, there was another captain person, nidge that was bollocked
off.
Can they cast someone else and then he had to pull out or died or
something?
Yeah, that's correct.
It was Peter Salas.
Yes, the lovely Peter Salis.
Yeah, who had appeared in the Ice Warriors as scientist Penley, and
was famous for Last of the Summer Wine, and later for playing
Wallace in Wallace and Gromit, and he had to pull out because of
the industrial action that affected Terminus, pushed the shooting
dates back for this.
And there's a famous story where he came into rehearsal and the
director, Uh, there's a famous story where he came into rehearsal
and the director Fiona coming said, and then you walk over here
and he said, oh, and oh, oh, no, I was told this was a sitting
part.
I don't do walking.
And waited a good 10 seconds before getting up and walking to the
spot.
Jesus how old was he?
No, no, I think he was just, he was tormenting her.
I think Keith Barron's very good in this. very good.
Just, he sells the part of an eternal, just being uncaring.
We're just doing this, just a race for us.
Everything else is entertainment.
It is, I mean, it's about class as well, isn't it?
The Eternals are upper class.
I mean, there's a real sort of class colonialism thing going as
usual.
And so just the impassivity of the eternals is, you know, kind of
class coded.
They're the Jacob Rismoggs of the... the Southern world. right.
Oh, God, imagine if he was eternal.
Imagine if he was straight.
I don't think he's convincing anybody.
Imagine if you'd like the Eternals run Brexit.
Couldn't get involved.
It does feel like a metaphor, doesn't it?
Yeah.
No I think it is.
I mean, you know.
He is a creeper though, isn't he?
Well, at least he's not looking at a rack.
Captain.
I do like, sorry.
Yeah, and I just want to know why she's not allowed to actually
have breasts for this season. but go on, Colin.
It wasn't going to be about that.
No, I like I like the story arc over the next, these 3 or 4
episodes.
I like the way at the end he does the Star Trek thing and says
what is this thing called love and all that?
Spoiler.
He's this thing called, love.
Oh, that's the cheeky one. like the cheeky one with the bead
probably dead now.
It's all the fun ones.
The fun ones tend to die at sea.
He's probably playing daddies now.
Oh, look at his little cheeky little rubicund face.
I can't understand what...
Little bit of Dutch, little bit of Dutch love, he's saying.
Dutch in you.
Yes.
Yes, well, Turo's managed to keep his school uniform on, which is
miraculous for the...
I'm wearing mine now. time and settings, yes you are, actually
aren't you?
Yes.
Yes, and they're pointing into the pipe and Peter Davidson is
conspicuous by having his jumper do all of his acting for this
scene.
And then we'll give give Turlow a tickle.
This is as close to Homeroticism as you got in classic Doctor
Who.
Oh I don't know.
I think there's Those guys in nappies.
Have you seen the Daleks?
Vengeance on Barrow.
Exactly.
It's not exactly Brendan and Peter in canine and company with the
ropes.
Honking like mad.
Hoop quartered.
Yes.
That's not a real word.
Got dark really quickly.
Soul, junk and hard tech, bags, turtle, be the junk.
Yeah, title of our sex tape.
Oh yeah, there you go.
You go from that line about what the sailors are eating to this
room full of the time.
I love this moment.
Did he just see her?
Yeah.
I think we should be doing script I was reading.
Yes, I think we should be doing the voices to assist the listeners
so we're just bothering to listen to this. can't do an Australian
accent.
Twiver could she.
But I'll say this, it's a much different Tegan than a year ago
when she would have been screaming and shouting at this and doing
your heels in.
I really, really like her.
I really do too.
She gets better. spot the moment, didn't you?
Yeah, when she's drunk, yeah.
Yeah, that story that brain down loves.
Well, she's Australian. after all.
Here he is.
Yeah, marvellous.
There is a sense that they don't.
The 2 behind him.
Yeah, they don't actually achieve animation until they have
contact with mortals. until they're observed by mortals and then
they I always loved that.
Oh, changing the costume?
Patelo?
Have they have they refrocked him?
No, he's got a lovely hat on.
He's like the new Malibu Malibu Stacy.
But how's she different?
She has a hat.
Oh, I know how this video ends. there you go.
That's not quite it, but still.
Why are they all getting along so well?
They're a crew.
Yeah, well, you know.
There's all sorts of team building activities that they can do at
the end of their shift.
I like that very modern window in the background.
Yeah, that's odd, isn't it?
Was it the 1st time he says Braveheart to take?
I don't know.
It did say, yeah, for sure yeah.
No, the set design is really good on this one and the historical
accuracy is there.
Yeah, they put a lot of effort into that.
They did, and this one, and the one iPhone window, they did.
It is, they did have steel, they were using steel frame windows on
the audience ships, so, you know, it's just a, it's 1901, I think
supposed to be.
It is the most minuscule dining room, but I guess we're on a
boat.
So that's all right.
I love this other bit as well in a minute where Pete is really
really hungry.
Here we go.
It's like, nope, I'm staying here.
I haven't been able to eat on screen.
That's true. year and a half .
It doesn't have a lot of luck, usually served in the BBC canteen.
I guess.
There we go Wasn't the BBC canteen known for having actually
decent food?
I don't know, but it was always a gag every, like, the 2 Ronnies
or everything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was I was thinking that was a boom. not. lantern.
Now, for the dear kind listeners at home, we remember him from the
1960s, don't we?
It's Chaffier.
Yes, we do.
One in the big...
Yes.
Do we all recall from?
Brendan?
Tony Caunter.
Yes. who is also famous for Zed cars. which conflicted with this
in fact.
So pretty much a Doctor Who at this point was being recorded out
of sequence, but in terms of him, all of his scenes for every
episode were recorded in the same recording session.
So he could get back to Zed cars.
So how late did Zedcars run?
Um, That is a good question.
Okay.
But a long time.
Did it overlap with the bill, because that would have been 9 years
be 900 years.
Well, see, 110,000 years.
Sorry, Richard.
There's all these little clues going on, like, um, wetsuits on a
awardian sailing ship and all these things that sort of gradually
make you think it's not quite what it's supposed to be.
Oh, there we go.
I like that.
It makes you feel clever when you're proven correct.
Yeah.
I mean, this is very similar, isn't it, to Carnival of Monsters?
One, in that you're made to think you're in a historical time
period and then you discover, no, it's a sort of science fiction
thing.
But, um, Carnival of Monsters, which I think is a better story
than this.
And doesn't have head chickens?
No.
Well, he does box chickens, got caged chickens.
Yeah.
So this is one up then, isn't it?
Well, and I think this reveal, too, the reveal at the end of
episode one is spectacularly interesting in a way that just some
dumbass puppet monster, you know, bursting through the time.
Spoilers.
And here we go.
It's a single...
What's she doing with the Sinclair on an Igwardian racing yacht?
You're what I sketch.
Right in time with her lips just said it was fantastic.
Oh, wow.
Devastating.
Actually, really good special effects. really good.
That isn't bad.
They look better than the CG versions on the special edition.
I think the CG version though is pretty good.
If they took all the CG from the special edition. and inserted it
into this and replaced it.
That would have made a better thing than doing a special edition, I
think.
Yeah, the special edition's not very good.
But the, um, that shot where the camera's going along in front of
the ships so that you've got a real sense of how many they are and
how they are in relation to one another.
I think is really good.
And there's lots of racing shots as well.
You can see the ships going really, really fast.
Whereas in this, they're sort of just fluttering around a bit.
Can I issue a correction?
Oh, because ZedCars ended in 1978.
Of course, this is 1982.
Juliet Bravo.
He was a lead in Juliet Bravo.
I think we're now up to the 7th Juliet.
There's been 7 Juliet so far.
For some reason, that's a running gag on Twitter at the moment
everyone's treating Juliet Bravo like it's Doctor Who, and there's
been 7 Juliet. and, you know, the 3rd Juliet.
I didn't even know what Juliet Bravo is listeners.
It's kind of like a forerunner to the bill almost.
But with a woman.
It was groundbreaking.
Okay, so he's part two.
Are we swapping microphones around or are we happy?
Well, Todd has swapped his microphone to me, but we will be
sharing when he wants something, he's he's got a very sharp shock
stick that he's going to poke me with.
That stick is not with you.
Little does he know that's like my favourite thing.
My favourite thing is Janet in the rubber chicken for this
episode.
It's nothing like a bit of light electrocution on a Saturday
morning.
Can I just say DVD controversy?
It's actually the wrong girth of font that in the recreated
titles.
It's not quite thick enough. did notice that.
Naughty, naughty restoration team.
I'm also noticing just as little tony, little bit of picture
distortion, which will hopefully be sorted out with the Blu-ray.
Sorry, the tone of my voice.
They're alarmed not.
What you mean?
Um, I'm just seeing little sort of digital artefacts, which I
think will be cleaned up for Blu-ray.
Are you talking about the horizontals?
Yeah, especially down the bottom of the screen, you might be able
to notice.
I mean, hopefully, dear listener, you can't at home, possibly
because it's being upscaled through a PS4 Pro, I believe.
Is that a pro, James?
Yes, I've only got the standard one.
All pros here.
It's funny how the other side live.
Old pros.
Just what you said.
Oh, dear.
Yes.
Poor Janet just looked at the next script.
So I know we can't hear it, but I want to say how awesome I think
the music is.
This entire thing, I think it's... apart from that.
For some reason, I've just got the harp music from 5 doctors in my
head constantly.
Hard to rustle on, again.
Is it Patty Kingsland?
The story.
It's Malcolm Clark.
Oh, oh.
Have we forgiven him now?
Well, I think this is I think this is his good one.
I was hoping for a sea devil's rift.
You were very cross about sea devils.
Really distracting.
Yeah, yeah.
A lot. shall I do it?
Yes.
That's what this.
I'm hoping the chicken hats will start.
Should we all do the London saxophone quarter as well?
Back to the action.
You are our guest, not our prisoners.
Oh, that's always warming to hear that in it.
Oh, yes.
Oh, and she's got lost to see, lady.
She actually spends most of the season being hungover.
What is it?
Rohypnol.
Even I'm not going to drink that, and I got drunk at Cranley Manor
where a woman locked up her disabled son.
No, I will not let it go.
It's good to know.
Good to know.
I love this room.
I love all the little touches that it's like, you know, There's
quite a few little touches.
And those other...
Thanks, Richard.
Yeah, but I like those little coolbacks, like, you know, aren't
even necessary and all the other stuff.
Oh, here we sorry.
And what was lovely with the upcoming photo of Auntie Vanessa.
They actually got Dolore in and paid her for a photo shoot.
It's not just her spotlight headshot.
They specialise.
Exactly.
Like, you know, they could have they could have at least got her
in the same hat, the lovely hat she was wearing when she was
hideously murdered.
They should put the doll on it. bedside table as well.
Aunt even Nessa, you're just like I remember you.
But smaller.
Oh.
Keep your knees together, love.
Mrs. frocks in the background?
There she is.
There she is, honey, Vivisa.
No, it's...
She's got a bloody, of course, they put...
Romana's chair, yeah.
Oh, a planet.
Actually, that could have been Cyril Luckam's old chair.
I wonder where he stuffed turkeys.
Where's his where's his absinthe gimlet that he was drinking?
Oh, yes.
Sorry, gim...
You can say that, I'm having one.
Oh, hello.
I was going to say, it's Magneto.
It's Ian McKellen when he could pull it off.
Well, it could be...
I'm not sure it is him because he's covering his crotch.
Yeah, that's true.
Oh, there you go.
She missed it the 1st time.
Just at the right moment.
Zooming in on that red ruby thing.
No, it's not a Nicola Bryant's photo shoot.
This is a pub.
To focus on that ring, that red ring.
Yes.
I didn't see it.
No, you're looking at something else.
But as a kid, it's like, why, like, it just stood out.
Like, I remember going, why are they focussing on that?
Right.
So later on, you feel special that you work it out.
Thanks for flagging that, Fiona coming.
Is that Cyril Lockham's chair from...
It feels like a joining.
I'm sorry.
I will say Mark Strickson checked out for a second.
Yeah, well, you were looking at the Greek.
Mark Strickson, when he comes in, when he discovers the drink and
Tegan unconscious, he does do this little, just this little facial
thing of, 0 my God, she's been drugged. have to help her.
He does sell the complexity of his character in these 3 stories of
someone who has to, has to do something horrible that doesn't
really want to.
And I can see why Mark became frustrated where literally from next
week onwards.
He's basically just locked in a room everywhere.
Oh that is a nice picture.
Was she ever in prisoner?
She certainly looks like she should have been.
She was in prison, I'd say.
She doesn't talk about, does Auntie Vanessa get any sort of
dialogue, name check and dialogue or anything?
No.
Well, she just, she just said, it's my, I don't believe it.
Auntie.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
You know, she doesn't say...
Thanks for joining us, Nathan.
You know, she doesn't say, she was killed by the master, who's an
evil time lord from the planet Galafre, the constellation of
Casturberus, who shrunk her when I met the doctor, and we went to
Lagopolis, and I demanded to know where the toilet was.
Yeah.
Well, say what isn't riding this week. though, is he?
There we go.
That's our line.
Beautiful.
He's so good.
Well, he just, exactly, by doing almost nothing.
Yeah, yeah.
And the concept that there's someone more powerful out there than
the time lords.
Well, at the moment, it's that Mr. Dyson.
Put your hat on.
A Dyson hat.
He's with a back back on the back.
That's why there's no dust on this ship.
Sheep.
I like that they're, that they're, um, more powerful than the Time
Lords, but they basically don't interact with Doctor Who's
mythology in any way.
Like they don't do anything.
They have no position.
They're not from a planet.
They're not, you know there's literally nothing that we know about
them.
They get name checked again, maybe in, I want to say, army of
ghosts.
Really?
Yeah, but basically, they're just this thing.
And I love that.
More of that.
Don't worry, I'm sure there's a...
For series, box set, coming.
Maybe the frog from last week's Doctor Who, the puppet frog, was
an eternal.
The reason they were able to get Tony Corner, who was an in demand
actor and part of a popular drama to play this role, which feels
like a small role, is because in this episode, all this stuff
about the rum cabinet was added at a very late stage because the
script for episode 2 was underrunning.
And once they added that and expanded the part, they realised we
can approach an actor of Tony Corner's calibre.
But it's all, who likes rum?
But it's also why once the rum cabinet subplot is out of the way
he kind of only has one or 2 more lines.
Yeah.
I think there's something spectacularly romantic as well about
having the race take place in the solar system and go past Venus
and stuff rather than going past, you know, Rascu, Al, Colos or
whatever the hell, you know, like, um, it's, it's just sort of
terribly, terribly, you know, it's not very science fiction-y.
Yeah, and it doesn't, it doesn't go into that territory of like
we're flying into Earth, like, with the queen waving at you, you
know.
It's just there.
Who would ever do that?
I also like that there's, and I'm hoping it's just brilliant
casting, but probably just a fluke, that there's kind of an Aryan
similarity between Keith Baron and Mr. Stroker, sorry, Striker.
It's the Australian expert.
Stroker?
didn't even look it up.
Oh, the 2 Ronnies are on when, Colin?
9 o'clock on BBC One.
When are we doing the 2 Ronnies podcast?
We're doing it now, darling.
Isn't that Nathan's line?
Sorry.
I know.
This is, you know, it's a new leveller friend of the podcast.
It's like kind of like wife of the podcast. like that.
You think they're not bad, are they?
Oh, they're beautiful.
Yeah, yeah.
What I haven't even looked at the CG version. doesn't blink at all
but...
Oh, he is now. for like 3 people.
And then the Eternals take their hats off.
And it's like, this is all a game to them, but they're respecting
it.
They're going, they're like full on cosplay and, you know, acting
the part.
That's gamesmanship.
But only for the Eternals that have just died, not for humans. good
point Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like winnership winnership blows up
all, you know, sinks to use earth parlance.
You take your hat off and you observe a moment.
You don't feel the emotion of the moment because we know they
can't feel emotion, but that's what you do.
It is the dumb thing.
And yeah, everything they do is because it's the dumb thing.
Right.
Yeah.
That's a nice shot Look at his, look at Mark Strickson's eyebrow.
But isn't that great?
Who's doing Janet's makeup this week?
She looks really pale.
The lights in her dressing room were out.
She wasn't the one with the torch.
It's funny, from behind, she always looks like, was it, with this
haircut, I mean, was it, um, was it Jill in Day of the Triffords?
Was that her character name?
Always makes me think of her when I see Janet with this haircut.
Dragged through a hedge backwards.
Well, now that Adrick's not on the show anymore, they don't need
to dye her hair red so that they can be told apart.
No, really.
That's what John did.
That's what John said.
And Mark Strickson gets the same treatment, so he doesn't look
like Peter Davidson in long shot.
Despite the fact, you know, he's about 5 inches shorter and
wearing a completely opposite coloured costume.
I think JNT just fancy gingers that week.
It doesn't feel dated so much as it feels period and is there a
distinction between the two?
I can, I know this is 80s TV without, I can step aside from this
being Doctor Who and I can feel the period that it's made in.
And therefore, and it could be this use of long static shots, the
way the actors stand and direct their talking at each other.
A well-cooked meal just out there.
And I had to leave it to come here and throw these lines at you.
You're no Beryl Reed in a sock, even if you tried.
You can hear him.
Yeah, it's it's the tragedy of of Davidson that this, you can tell
this is where he's really starting to enjoy the role, but he's
also, he's already had to resign.
Um, or rather opt not to continue after next series.
And you know, he said he said in interviews.
It was at the end of the 2nd year.
I started getting scripts that I thought, you know, 0 yeah, I can
sync my date.
Well, actually good.
But, you know, by that time, I think it was possibly even during
it was before the 5 doctors. that they announced that he'd be
leaving before the end of the next series.
So it's not far off.
And so at this point he knows he's going.
Possibly not in production, but around the time of broadcast.
Oh, he's got that bathroom tap again.
Not even once.
I didn't I didn't know that Turlo had an ice addiction.
Oh.
I'm Morton.
Please welcome to the stage.
What meth addiction?
Crystal Beth.
It's Mariner's drag name, is it?
Yes.
These scenes are amazing.
These 2 together.
Um, Janet and Christopher Brown.
Uh, it's sort of in my head, Canon.
Chameleon should have taken the form of Christopher Brown.
Yeah, kind of doing it. in this episode.
Is he even in it?
Well, no, no, he's not around here. he's coming next week.
Yeah, it's like, you know, when they're like, oh, we can't operate
the robot.
I think they should have asked Christopher Brown back and said
okay, Chameleon reaches into Tegan's mind and because he likes
messing with people, he chooses a form that's going to creep her
out.
Yeah.
You've really thought about this.
Yeah, and then he spends a year sexually harassing him.
From a cupboard.
Just taking the form of Auntie Vanessa, literally.
Volunteer.
But there's lots of really nice variance on shots here.
Close-up crystal acting.
I think it's really well directed.
Yeah, it is.
Have you seen the, um, there is a documentary on the DVD talking
about the special edition, and poor old Fiona Cumming seems
completely bewildered by the whole idea. technology and things.
And it just seems to have been...
Yeah, where she seems to really have not had that much to do with
it, I think.
On the other hand, the 2 stories that get this treatment, which
was Peter Davidson's idea of, you know, let's re-edit some of my
stories as if they're the new series, the 2 stories that get the
treatment are Fiona coming.
So I think she was open to the idea if perhaps not quite
understanding how the execution might be.
I think that's fair enough.
What's the other one?
Planet of Fire, which is dreadful.
Yeah, yeah, that's a shocker.
They get rid of the music.
They get rid of Peter Howell's school. brilliant school.
Yeah, and the, I'm sorry.
And for this, a special edition of this, they insert lots of music
that isn't Malcolm Clark into it, and it really does my head in
because it doesn't fit at all.
Yeah, it's just kind of stock, hornblower soundtrack.
Yeah.
We just missed Valentine Dial's comical, hilarious, bad laugh.
They will come back.
Yeah.
Is Burgess Meredith?
We just need you on the podcast all the time, Brandon, to do all
of these.
Just stop the whole thing.
I'll get you to record a soundboard.
I just press Brendan buttons.
Oh, great shot.
Excellent nap and good.
Hmm.
There was lots of excited fan chat that we finally got the
celestial toy maker reprise.
We've always wanted.
Do you remember all of that at the time?
Finally look, they're just like the celestial toy maker.
It was a big thing.
Really?
racist.
Well, that well, really?
But the was stuff was going on.
Remember TARDIS magazine?
Oh yes, it was terribly excitement.
It was such a weird period that I don't recall that to you
Brendan.
Yeah, no, they're too young.
But there was this sort of feeling that the celestial toy maker
was an absolute sort of lost classic.
Yeah, because no one had seen it.
Yeah.
Well, Gary Russell loved it and was writing about it at the time
in fact.
I'm saying it was...
Now, now we've seen it, and it's shockingly...
But for a child.
It's the point of difference.
And it was lampooning children's TV perfectly, the one-on-one
thing.
Give them exactly what they, what they see already and then make
it horrid.
I actually watched a bit of it during the week and 0 my god, Jackie
Lane's accent is so bizarre.
Like it's so, so off-putting. and welcome to the stage Janet
Fielding.
I will say in terms of the celestial toy maker.
It's in my bottom 5 TV stories, but the novelisation is excellent
and it's scary.
It's Jerry Davis.
Oh, and Alison Bingjman.
I'm not some binge chicken.
Yeah, I'm not sure who she is.
Perhaps she was an editor or proofreader who ended up writing some
of it because, you know, we do get stories that Jerry Davis isn't
actually that good with pros in the 80s.
But yeah, I see what you mean about.
To me, Richard, this is kind of the celestial toy maker done right
in that he's not making sort of corporeal.
Oh, look, it's a toy, but he's making people into toys, but not in
a sort of literal marionette kind of way.
Well, not in a James mucky mouth way.
Excuse me, I don't know what you mean.
I've never sworn in my life.
Miss Mucky James.
I'm going to suck you right off the deck, missing my Dyson space
that you watch me.
I could never be that filthy.
Not on this podcast.
Why has no one said, you've got a vegetable on your person.
He does.
Look at Mark Strickson in the back.
Yes.
Taking up.
All the scenery he can. that's right Well, he's mugging really
rather than an actor, isn't he?
He did that a lot.
He's looking at look at me.
Are you looking at his face?
Look at the face.
I wonder if it's because, you know, with Mark Strickson's casting
he had the choice between doing Doctor Who and doing angels, which
was very popular at the time.
I wonder if he is just so determined that he's not going to slip
into the background like Matthew Waterhouse and Sarah Sutton often
did.
And that's not critical of their performances.
But I think he's he's watched last season of Doctor Who and gone
right, I'm going to do it this way.
Well, we've talked before about how a lot of classic companions
are just the actor's performance, but he is he's got a character.
That other guy looks a bit like John Sim, that 3rd officer, that
keeps coming around.
I'm sorry, I was just trying to think who was he?
And yeah, it just looks like...
It's actually Sam Tyler.
He's travel back in time.
I love how disappointed the doctor is in Turlo there.
Because he's already suspicious about Turlow.
We know that from Modern Undead, but just his his disappointment
that Turlow would do.
What really is quite a minor betrayal.
And, you know, foreshadowing that he's going to discover just how
much Turlo has betrayed him.
This is lovely.
It is lovely.
Yeah, I mean, Barbara Clegg is so deaf because Mariner is creepy.
But.
He's he's not creepy in the way that, you know, everyone who lusts
after Perry is creepy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You should not understand what it's all about, isn't it?
He's trying to understand.
He's creepy as opposed to a creeper.
I also like their technology as well, the eternals, that they're
not space people from the future.
Like that they've just...
No, they're from the... spectrum in there.
No, no, no, that's right.
It's all.
They're from the ed.
And they're kind of like very peaceful, very old people in that
you want to, are you awake, dear?
Are you listening to us?
There's just no super ego left.
So anything.
Oh, look at that.
Black people.
I mean, you just get everything that comes out of their heads at
the 1st moment, don't you?
They're the Vorons.
Yeah, maybe.
I don't know what you're talking about When are we doing the
Babylon 5 podcast?
I've never heard of that show.
No, for me.
It's quite good until you get to that episode in season 5 with the
cleaners wandering around.
That's Paradise Towers.
Would you like to know something about that episode, James?
What?
You're wrong.
It's brilliant.
Thank you.
I was waiting for that Gents.
I comment on the lovely lighting and optical montaging here.
Why would you change this over?
Now I've got to run away like every dear listener and look at the
CG version just to see how crappy pants it is.
You'd room that straight after this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We doing a commentary on that version.
Did we not mention it?
Will we get you missed it?
You missed the Chesterton reprise.
Will we get off, doctor?
I'll show you my wrath.
Come and have a look at it.
It's over here.
It's marvellous, isn't it?
Perpetual, Tom, except the boat's not going to last all that long
so it's really not much of a threat shit.
Yeah, how is that eternal?
much on the ship. finishes.
Oh, all feisty bottoms say that.
Well, it is very much him noticing that we're 24 minutes into the
heaven.
I mean, the other thing is about the Black Guardian.
You know, he threatens Turlow one set episode for 12 episodes and
it's like, no, no, I'm really, really crossed this time.
I'm really, I'm really gonna do...
I'm really, no, now, now I'm going to hurt you.
Okay, not now, but next time.
I'm really, you know, go to your room.
Go to your room.
No, no, it's like really bad teaching, isn't it?
You'd better not do that again.
Or the Mueller next time.
That's me.
Get me as a teacher.
That's me as a teacher.
And I'm still teaching.
No, really, boys, stop it.
I mean it.
It does feel like present times, doesn't it?
It does feel like the Mueller investigation just never stops.
Where are we up to now?
Eric, say, who's been called up?
Michael Cohen's being told he should have 4 years in jail
substantial prison term.
Very exciting.
It is.
Meanwhile, Turlo's jumped his rail.
Okay, so this is part three.
It's the gripping excitement.
Which is...
Back in his box.
Oh sorry.
Davidson ever get a chance to change his slightly tweaked
expression for his opening titles?
You know, it just looked like he's set on Cyril Luckham's hat.
Yeah, I think it's the Castra Volver commentary where Janet says
Pete, Pete.
Pete, what is it with that photo?
You look like you've been goosed.
Well, that was you, Janet.
Now, can I recommend if you enjoy commentaries on Peter Davidson
stories, then, the commentary on this one with them in it?
You know, is it good?
Anyone or anyone with Janet.
Pete does all of them except for...
The Awakening.
Right.
Who do they have on the Awakening?
I believe it's the director and Eric Saywood.
Scintillating.
A horse, yeah.
The lynch gate itself.
We should do commentaries on the commentaries.
This a very long reprise, isn't it?
Isn't it?
Episode 3 must have been under running.
I love that shot.
I love that show.
Once more with feeling DVD. isn't there a sung through commentary
as well?
Oh, God, I don't know.
It wouldn't be Alison Hannigan because she steadfastly.
That's why she's got 2 lines.
One of which is, I think this line is mostly filler.
Getting Valentine's Dial back is...
Singing always a good idea, isn't it?
I mean, I think the Black Guardians are kind of stupid.
And they are the thinnest possible motivation for season 16 to
happen.
Even William Shatner said that this week.
Yes.
Yeah, that was weird.
It felt like he'd read Wikipedia about Doctor Who.
He just spouted it off.
He said that Willie Parnell's a fantastic doctor..
And he's like, skip the key to time.
But when they switch Romana's just go with it. which one is it?
It's a bad shot.
No, no.
Like, all of this stuff is very good.
I think this is healing.
And the music.
It is healing gorgeous.
Because you've got the flywise.
And I do love how in the in the reprise of the cliffhanger. we
just had.
Instead of the doctor shouting, no, we get Davidson's real emotion
which is shouting at Turlo, don't be an idiot.
It's like, Turlo, this is a minor inconvenience.
But I mean, you know, the idea that Peter's the nice doctor is
absolutely wrong.
You know, he's not.
He's always impatient and grumpy and things.
Speaking of impatient and grumpy, the new season 19, Blu-ray
trailer, which was cut by Pip Madley, of course. has sort of front
and centre that wonderful line of shh, you're spoiling my
concentration.
Like he stops the music and everything.
It's the record scratch moment.
There's there's special effects for Castra Valva.
Yes.
Are they new for the new optional speckled effects?
Right.
That's a little...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Although they have cleaned up the fringing, because I remember the
video version of this is worse.
It's very goodies this moment.
Very good.
Here comes Kitten Kong.
It's such a great choice.
It wasn't just necessitated by the Kirby wire work, was it?
Like they went to Ealing so that they could shoot this on film so
that it looked like it was out.
Or that they happen to have a spare deck from Howard's way that
wasn't being used that week.
No, established that?
Isn't that how GNT did it, just in the same way that, yeah, yeah
yeah. that Russell did it, that, you know, I want, I want pigs in
spacesuits and chorus girls.
So Barbara Clegg said, sure.
Brilliant.
Now we get new people, including Lee John, who is a person.
How many vows?
He has 3 E's.
He's all three.
Well it was the 80s and it was a party.
He still around?
I said I follow him on Twitter.
He still does things.
All right.
The other baron.
You know, by the time I finally saw this in, I think, 1994.
I knew I liked boys, but Leo, Linda Baron.
Well, it's, yeah, all right.
Diana Dawes doing Adamance Prince Charming in a different wig
isn't it, really?
Oh, this got so much publicity.
Do you remember all the little fan mags or the TV week, all the
things?
Mind you, he does know how to work a pair of collots, doesn't he?
He is actually shockingly bad.
He is so canned, isn't he?
But it's not just that his camp.
I mean, we've had good actors playing camp. doing it now.
But he's like he's in a 90s video clip.
Yeah, I'd argue Christopher Robin or whatever that Stroker's real
name is exactly.
Exactly the sort.
Well, that's the thing.
I have no problem with Lee John's performance because he's playing
a pirate.
So he, but, you know, he's an alien playing a pirate.
So he's like, oh, I, um, you know, I've got this movie I can
watch.
What is it?
carry on up the rope or what was the carry on pirate movie?
I'm not sure that argument ever really holds ballast for me, though
in because it's always got to be within context.
In context of everybody else's performances, but she's doing it
very nicely.
Now I'm showing you a really cold fridge with a dead fish in it.
And it's a metaphor for you having it off with me, so don't even
think about it.
You bum.
That's Australian.
I do think I do think there's a parallel here with this scene
where she closes off her thoughts and the scene in Girl in the
Fireplace with a door once opened can be crossed in 2 directions.
Because in both, in both scenes, the sort of, um, long-lived
immortal character underestimates the mortal who then, who the
mortal female, who then goes, well, no, if you can do mind tricks
so could I. And what I love about Mariner there is he's like, oh
okay, if you're going to block me out, I'm going to stop
attempting to read you because this is new.
This is an amusement.
A lady has never done.
Well, a lady's never done anything to him before.
They're all dressed up in nowhere together.
Yes, you are.
So, All the ostensible threats in this. back to Linda Baron where
we get positive proper ruffled threats.
It's true, isn't it?
The boys are all went to Eton, so then, you know, but she actually
knows what it was that they were most afraid of and eaten.
Oh no, I thought that was a pencil.
It is a knife.
But she had to kudos to her for this performance because she's
only into episodes.
And yet it's the character I remember so well.
Oh, she's brilliant.
She's acting entirely with her lower jaw. doing everything.
And a lot of Tim Curry work there as well.
Slab, yes, I've got one, actually.
Or shall I torture you with anticipate?
Poltitude.
Yeah.
I'll do it in the happiness patrol coming.
Oh.
I'd say, if I was the director, I'd keep the shot in him for as
long as I could just to make his eyes freeze.
You're right, he's hardly blinked at all.
No, he doesn't.
Do you remember he says that he was one of the tricks he did
deliberately to keep everyone's attention on him.
And Janet's always pointing it out.
He's always making sure he's looking over his shoulder so everyone
notices him when they're all anytime anyone's got their back to
the camera.
He's the one looking back at the camera.
Yeah, it's, because he's not on the commentary for a resurrection
of the Daleks, they rib him.
Oh, is that seriously about it?
Because when they find Stein, like the doctor and Tegan are
talking about him, talking to Stein in the background and Mark
said to the director, how about while they're doing that, I'm off
here, you know, looking around to see if anyone's coming.
And of course, he's in the bloody foreground of the shot.
Here we go.
Hear and address.
And I love the doctor's reaction.
Exactly.
You've come as Albert.
I've already told you not to do that, Sarah Jane.
I've been here 2 hours and that's what you come out with.
She does a great Eliza Doolittle.
And she does always look under under complete penury and stress
doesn't she?
She really does look like she's starving for anything.
If not more tension.
Oh, breakfast cereal.
Breakfast cereal.
Oh, look, she's brought her breasts with her period.
She has.
Just the one set now.
These new editions or are these original?
No, this is the original.
Okay, it's good to know.
Because the new edition version of this is a cut down 66 minute
wide screen remixed.
Why?
Because Peter Davidson said to Fiona coming on the commentary for
Castro Valver, wouldn't it be wonderful if we could cut some of
our old stories like the new series?
Oh, look, chest hair.
Turns out, no.
He just meant he just meant cut Jenna out.
Yeah.
No, I've been admiring Lee John's chest hair.
Yeah, Lee and Janet were actually having a bit as to who could
show more chest in this story.
I love the way her tiara has a perfectly sized hole in it for the
crystal.
Chekhov's tiara.
Oh, this is our favourite room.
And now we've got the on-off vacuum shield.
This, isn't it?
Look, it's really bloody important that I know what's going to go
on in here.
When I used to go into that convenience store, Turlo, I had no
idea.
I think it looks like the planet Solos, like...
Well, yes, or even Trouton-esque technology.
It's feeling very power of the, isn't it?
There he goes.
Oh, no, she's bumpable.
She said he was actually...
Or perspective.
Yes, I was going to say, well, you know, your sticks are rubbing.
Mechanical buzzing.
Sorry.
Just being filthy.
Fumbling magic.
Same explosion.
Oh, was it?
Like space 1999, yes.
So that's finished in the loo.
I wouldn't go in there for a while. perfect sense now.
Squat over this big eye.
Those weren't asteroids.
Still a black is a license.
That's what I do.
Bondfinger Tom.
Todd, I don't know why you keep bringing up still a black, you
know.
It's completely untoward. would never do that.
Just saying.
Some other gentlemen?
It feels like a future crew call for Doctor Who, doesn't it?
It's for to doomsday.
It does.
I am lord of the salad bar.
I am Willy Wonka.
Right behind you.
I think that chest hair is not real.
I can see spirit gum in there.
He'd be really good in community theatre, I think.
Doing it.
As a tree.
His eyes, he's acting completely with his eyes.
Oh, yeah, I do love a story that gives good frock.
Yeah.
And that's just the men.
I'm scared, doctor.
That's why I got dressed up specifically to come here.
Although it is one of her best scenes, yeah.
They're all in drag.
I think so.
So these are all eternals, aren't they?
Yeah, there's Martin Chuzzlewit.
Where's Martin Chuzzle?
So the Eternals are diverse, despite their, you know, English
upper class, kind of.
Look at the next doctor in the background.
Just thinking, yes.
Actually, I would have loved for Colin to have that costume.
I think Colin would have loved for Colin to have that costume.
Would...
Alcohol and beer, yeah.
I love how you've changed between each episode.
The ducks in the bin.
No, see, Tegan will take any opportunity.
What a large...
Whereas, I think except for the drink in Castra Valver, Davison
always finds a way to get rid of alcohol just quietly.
Like in the 1st episode of this, he hands his glass over to the
officer who loses his.
He orders lemonade and black orchid.
And yeah, he's not going to have a sip of that either, whereas
Pertwee.
Cheeky and sardonic.
Mate, the cheese table.
Did you say you have a wine cellar?
Yeah, I think your house might be haunted, maybe?
We'll have stay the night.
Yeah, maybe get out for a bit.
Make it a week.
Yeah.
And he takes away Tegan's drink here.
Perfect weather for a peace conference.
I was just saying to Tubby the only...
You know, oh, shit, well, I think we know who's got the title of
racking.
As she grasps for the talent, yeah.
Oh, no.
She finds a bit on putting.
Oh, okay.
Can't you throw it out?
What if someone eats that later?
It's been like everywhere.
He's entirely made of Velcro.
What if they mistake it for a sword and use a fire?
Yeah, and just sticks on so easily too.
Self adhesive.
Is it Velcro?
Or did they did June Hudson go out and just buy a new bunch every
every month?
He told us when he was here in 83.
It was felt.
Yeah, felt.
Fuzzy felt.
I did bump into Peter Davidson and Mark Spencer about a year ago.
He was wearing it, wasn't he?
No, he wasn't.
He was wearing the hat.
I was trying to find that celery and I ran out of time before the
checkout.
Next time, next time.
Did you buttonhole him?
I'm going here.
Now, I have a feeling that shot is wrong because the door opens.
It's meant it's meant to close.
But it is still open there, so maybe I'm wrong.
Still a bit whiffy.
In the book, it's not a hole at all.
It's just a grid because it's very silly.
That design reminds me of...
Yeah, or greatest show in the galaxy.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Blue eye.
This, um, when I was a kid, this was the scene that made me think
Mariner would be a really good companion, because he's got these
he's got these abilities, like he's got sort of NISA psychic
abilities, but they actually introduced them and explained them.
Acting eyebrows.
That is spot on.
That is really good.
I'm just imagining him now as a companion.
I think it's brilliant He knows all about telebiogenesis. knows
about everything.
Yeah, yeah.
Great. the Diana Troy all the time, not a total fake.
I feel its pain and suffering.
Oh, and now.
Lush.
I want that sign.
Graham, Graham, let me out.
Tim, Tim, where are you?
It's very goodies.
You're our 1000000th customer.
I've never won anything before.
Well, you're about to win big.
Except ginger hair dye.
But crystals are going to help you now.
Or threats.
Oh, I warned you again.
This time you'll really die.
I mean it.
I'm speaking to your house master.
I'm even going to walk away before I'm sure you're dead.
It comes with a villain license. you know, certain protocols.
Oh, look, he's doing that thing.
Yeah, that thing with the coin thing that was actually Lala
and...
Yeah.
Ignore the distinct conversation. ignore the ignore the corn
choice.
Take a drink.
Look at him, I missed him.
Heres me rack.
Where you going, come my way.
Salad?
Not right in front of it.
Uh, title, right?
Yeah, I was gonna say in front of the commentary.
I was going to say, I know it breaks with tradition, but we should
just call this episode Salad?
That's terrible.
Look at his bar. bum shot.
Look at that bum.
Woohoo.
Any excuse?
I know, but those are very tight trousers.
I'm sure that they would have violated the uniform code.
You could say unicorn.
Unicorn.
They could have violated a unicorn too, if you...
Turlo, you can't wear those trousers.
You'll distract the boys.
Now, so the air is very, very, very, very slowly and not at all
explosively, quite kind of draining from the room.
Is that what's happening?
Yes.
While Peter walks very slowly around the ship waiting, you know
trying to find him.
And now it's Battle of the Brests. round two.
Round four I think.
And hair and earrings and necklace.
And and Janet wobbling incredibly while frozen in time.
Oh, yeah.
She snore is invading rack.
Spinning around.
Now is that German expressionism there?
No, certainly not.
Is it really spinning around?
is it?
Cornell Day and topping, um, speculate that it's the effects of
asphyxiation.
That's what I was thinking.
Yeah, it was like what he's feeling.
Where are they picking their tech from or from whom?
If they can choose...
All of time and space, but only really BBC storage from 1965 to 74
yeah How many times does he say help me?
It's really slow, isn't it?
Look at that wall.
Look at that, actually.
Yeah, yeah.
They've nicked the wall from the Williams era.
Yeah.
You can tell because it's got all the fag ends stumped out.
Speaking of faggins, this is your end, fag.
Why are you overacting so?
I think you're right.
It is cloth.
I mean, you can see in that shop.
I research it, you fool.
Yeah, Davis was slightly accent scene like, I opened the bloody
door.
There is really no great empathy here between the doctor and Turlo
and you could say there never has been.
The doctor works on protocols in this in this period, doesn't he?
I think he's more like an eternal than he is one of the kids.
No, I agree with you there.
There's very little affection from Pete's doctor, I think.
He kind of, you know, Davison likes to kind of touch Sarah.
Possibly can, John.
Oh, there you go.
Like right on Turlo's bum.
Eye of horse.
I like the way he never kind of calls Turlow on the on the
deception bit.
He just tries to be the most positive, the most, you know, to help
him in every situation and that he'll come around.
I think we talk about it in our episode that it's done kind of
subtly, isn't it?
That, that, you know, and there's no kind of recriminations or any
nonsense about it.
I mean, the show isn't the kind of thing that has sort of running
emotional arcs anyway.
But it is kind of refreshing not to have it really brought up
again.
I mean he still gets to be cowardly and kind of annoying and
stuff.
That's such a, that looks terrible.
Yeah, so bad, isn't it?
Has the money run out?
that it?
We are getting towards the end of the season.
They spend all of the money on.
Amsterdam.
But weren't they supposed they were supposed to have the Dalek
story that got canned?
Oh yeah, that's true.
So they would have had to have money somewhere.
Yeah.
I think also, um, the last 3 stories of the season were compressed
in terms of production time because of the various strikes, and
it's why Terminus wasn't finished properly.
So I do wonder if that also affected the labour of building sets
and whatnot.
I mean, do we know who the designer was?
Is it someone who's very good at period stuff and like incredibly
crappy at space corridors?
I don't know.
I think this is his only story.
Okay.
So yes.
Yes.
Let's just hang around in this room that's clearly dangerous and
open to space and hope no one outside pulls the lever again.
That won't happen, Colin.
I've seen it before. of the room.
No, no.
Franklin.
Tried to brain me with a rock?
Not through this year.
Now, why did they want?
Yeah, the visitation. love.
And then someone comes in and goes, stop.
No, and visitation, remember?
Even says, oh, no, not again.
They should go, oh, full Tim.
Oh no, this is what we want for the cliffhanger.
That's great. on.
That is a much better cliffhanger than Pete gets threatened by a
sword again.
But he will live to regret it.
Sorry, I was a bit too butch there.
It does rattle along this one.
I never get tired of it.
I can watch it all the time.
I love it.
Oh yeah, Liege.
Still alive?
Is he still alive?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I said, I'm following him on Twitter.
Really?
He still sort of performs.
The only thing he talks about is this.
We should at him on the.
How old is he?
Mate, can you retweet this without listening?
Sorry.
It's 40,000 years.
He is old.
He's got a shaved head and stuff.
He looks, so, you know, he doesn't look gray.
No, no, I mean, he doesn't look great.
You know what I mean?
He just looks kind of older.
And then he still wears sort of ludicrously camp outfits and
stuff.
He's, you know, he's reasonable value.
I think he's about 60.
Yeah, that sounds right somewhere.
Does he do panto?
doing it now.
Well, here we go.
We're now in, what, part four?
He's 61.
Okay.
It's reasonable.
He's black, so they're like Yoda.
They just, or, you know, they just stay looking really, really
good and then they turn into Yoda, but by the time they get to
80.
They do.
They're completely ageless. ageless and deathless.
Oh God.
That's true.
All old singers.
It's like something, we're told you, we're talking. always knows
what gain.
Just at mentioned Richard.
Mentioned by Richard.
We're getting a lot out of this door, aren't we?
Door.
It does look quite uncomfortable in that shot, doesn't he?
Usually does, yeah.
Well, that's why that's why he cuts his hair so short immediately
after this, it's become, oh, people can grab this.
No, this is terrible.
That really hurt.
Sorry, dear listener, I forgot I wasn't holding a microphone.
He went back.
I like how they recount that.
She doesn't do the evil.
No, no, it's disappointing, isn't it?
He went back to doing all creatures.
That's why he had his hair cut.
Yeah, yeah, Back for 5 doctors, he's got short hair.
Yeah.
The hair of an idiot.
Isn't it the Moffat line about the doctor?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How do you recognise the doctor?
He's got hair of an idiot.
That's great Oh, I thought you were talking about Tegan.
And a pleasant open face.
He's clutching it.
Hang on, I don't feel...
Feel impugned.
And I've come as a sofa.
What have you come as, dear?
They have fun, don't they, the eternal?
I've come as Ron Moody in a scrotty old carry-on sketch, how about
you?
Well, I've come as an egg.
You can't see me because all my lines are getting squashed by that
bastard.
No here I am.
And the background.
No, I'm fascinated by that guy.
He's clearly got a thing on so that he's bald wig doesn't have to
make hours to apply.
That's right, come as the me con from darn dear.
What?
No, I have.
You give, I am empty.
You give me being...
That's just everything's a double entendre on this show, isn't
it?
Carry on doctoring.
Yeah.
It is the closest this season.
But she's pretty unsurpassable in this, isn't she?
She's doing naturalistic on top of everybody else's.
What is love?
It is, it is a really, uh, you know, her trajectory where she does
start with the most appalling children's show acting, like in her
book.
She really did.
It hurt.
It's clearly not, it was clearly just her decision to pitch it
that that must have been what she thought Doctor Who was.
So Jackie Lane continued.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
But then she decides to just do some proper acting. later and I
think she's great.
You know, she's an unsung hero of 80s.
It was spending time.
It might have been Sarah Sutton said, giving her, you know, a
really chunky VHS of the moon stallion, saying, look, I could do
this before I was your age.
You might have a look at this, you know.
This is how you do it, love.
I have it.
When are we doing the moon style?
I love them.
Oh, are we doing it now?
my favourite thing.
We can do it afterwards.
Dave Davidson's also doing, I mean, the recessive acting, and
maybe that's why he's kind of getting lost, because maybe that's
why I'm feeling he's like an eternal.
But no, I think this doctor is, and maybe that's why it's one of
his strongest stories.
Another reason.
He's much closer to the coolness.
I think, I mean, I've said before, I think he's a proper actor.
You know, I think he's one of the best actors to ever take the
role and certainly in the classic series, there's nothing, you
know, he just...
Oh, we'll have a snort of that, love.
Thank you.
He's got such crappy lines and he just works so hard to try and
make them work.
In my rewatch of this.
This is the this is the story where I began to like him.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm with you on this, Todd.
I was never a massive Peter fan, although he was my era, but
watching it again.
He's just, he's standing back, he's very deliberate, he's very
calm. hes very clear.
It's, it's really strong.
And, and, you know, coming off Tom's acting performance as well.
You know, we had such a different expectation.
Oh no, I love Tom.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was just I was trying to do Tom.
Linda, Linda, Linda, darling, what you really needed this scene is
a talking badger.
Oh, oh, I see.
I see you've got one on your head.
Never mind.
Miriam's left me this cabbage because she...
Oh wow.
I got very excited about the winnings just then.
That's when you have good microphone technique, James, when you're
coughing.
So who created Enlightenment and why would do Eternals need it?
Yeah, it's strange, isn't it?
But again, I don't want to know.
Like, I don't need Jodie Whittaker to come in and give me a soil
and tell you...
Yeah, she lady splains everything, doesn't she?
Don't worry, she'll do it again.
It does suggest that, and there's this age, age old cod comic
strip thing that, you know, relative philosophy, that the greatest
position to have is, is um, ephemerality or is vulnerability or is
the freedom of choice and unknowing.
Yeah, well, they've been around for so long and so little at their
lives is ever at stake that they're bored, you know, and I really
really like that.
And I like the idea that if there are gods, they can't possibly
care about it or they can't possibly empathise with us.
And I think that's, you know, that's a very old observation about
what the gods are like.
It's what they're like in the Iliad.
You know, I think it's great.
Oh, looking, he's some very diverse people on television for
1980.
Three?
We're walking the plane.
Whee.
Poor old pink show.
That happened a little bit early.
That sudden edit.
Let him fall off first, I think.
Now if you do not exist in time, therefore, our concept of that
can only mean that you are static.
Yeah.
How's she ever going to finish that drink?
Yeah, exactly.
Priorities.
That's it.
The worst thing about being eternal.
It's completely impossible to be an alcoholic.
Actually, when does she not have a drink in her hand?
Linda or Janet?
And she's fingering Janet's tiara.
Even a mucky one such as yours, she said, yes.
James.
My God, the TV started talking back to us.
I'm sorry, I drowned out my catchphrase just then.
Even this, you know, like, is about Turlow as a character in a way
that this story probably should have been, you know, more than
just Valentine Dial kind of threatening him pointlessly and him
kind of snivelling and stuff, having her talk about his, you know
what he's like as a person, having someone who can read his mind
while all this is going on.
I mean, that whole thing is so massively underdeveloped, isn't
it?
For this whole trilogy.
Like whenever Doctor Who does arcs at this point, they kind of
bolt them on, really.
Yeah.
Is that the inside of next year's console?
Having a snort, yes.
Men heave.
Well, indeed.
I will say, though, that scene with Turlo and Rack is very clever
because this is episode four.
It reestablishes who the Eternals are.
It establishes that they can't die, but also that they can read
minds and they take personalities from people whose minds they
read and it establishes, reestablishes Turlo's relationship with
the Black Guardian and his instinct for self-preservation, all
without speechifying.
Yeah, yeah.
It does it with dialogue.
And I'm quite a fan of Jody speechifying, but that was a masterful
masterful bit of scripture.
Wow, look at the acting.
Look at Lee John.
He's earning his pay this week, isn't he?
Bless him. pumping it out.
Again, there's the sense of it moves at the same paces. wind in
your spinnaker, doesn't it, on a slow day?
And that's a good thing.
That is okay.
I do think that we don't get much of a sense of the race
throughout.
No, we don't.
There's a lot of ships out of bottles.
You know, yeah.
But and I guess that would be the thing that prompted the, you
know, people's desire to do a special edition because the one
thing the special edition does do is a better, you know, a better
job.
Ships moving fast rather than just fluttering away.
You see more of the race.
Yeah, yeah.
And the race is spectacular.
It's a great idea.
And it's so weird for this period of Doctor Who, this period of
sort of tin clavic minds and, you know, bastic explosives and
stuff, you know, where it's all so science fiction-y.
I think there's an Arthur C.
Clark book.
This may have called on the sun jammers or the wind of the sun or
something like this, which is almost exactly like this.
There is, it reminded me as well.
Yep, there is.
If any of the ships had been done by industrial light and magic
though.
No, I like real prop.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, that's what I mean.
Real prop, you know, emotional controlled cameras.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Oh, she's just a poor girl from a poor family.
Part of a duel.
Yes, Caramouche, speak to me.
Oh, and that's a twist too, isn't it?
I'd forgotten about that, that she's... with the black guardian.
She was the shadow all the time.
The shadow that accompanies us all.
I wish.
That would have been fun.
She's only got one nose, though.
Yeah, that's always a disappointment.
See, this isn't the smartest thing that Pete ever does, is it?
Smash it into a lot of pieces that are very hard to become.
As a kid, I'm going, like, it's going to blow up the ship.
Like, there's still some left there.
Get it all.
Why didn't you just pick up the bloody tiara?
Maybe it's a, well, it is a crystal.
You know, like maybe you just thought if he smashed it all up, then
it wouldn't have its crystalline structure.
This has been chemistry corn.
Pete, you missed, mate.
She's taking an awful long time to focus.
Oh, no, come on.
There lots of Linda Baronheads now. here we go.
Yes.
Just like Pete's Regeneration.
Only much better.
I'm getting a bit dizzy now.
I can stop. making me giddy.
Linda, you're a wonderful actress Linda, we love you.
Linda, Linda.
Linda, Linda, you must die. wouldn't you just pick up the carpet?
Exactly, James.
Exactly.
What a good observation Are we still doing freezing?
carpet.
Just roll up the carpet.
Oh, no, let's put all these little tiny pieces.
Put them in getting all of them.
Pick that one up.
No.
No, we just have more than limited. fine.
Janet's old knickers.
I love Pete running.
So great.
He's so good.
Round and round the cross.
David Tennant rips that off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, Eccleston's 1st word is run.
I think Pete running is hugely important for how...
No, but I mean the style of running that run.
The tenant does is very Pete.
But then Pete was his doctor, no?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he's massively out of breath now.
Oh here we go.
I was always falling over.
Peed in pain falling over is always great. fun, isn't it?
Why is he in pain?
Because he's out of breath.
I thought he had a respiratory bypass.
That's going to explose.
Will it be the same explosion?
Oh, good question.
No, exploding knickers.
TM.
Janet's exploding knickers.
That is our podcast title.
I did think I would call it Linda Barron's ample commentary.
One of us would have to say that during the commentary for that to
work.
Well, none of us said El Commentary del Mundo in the day, so
that's fine.
That's not our rule.
This is great.
Yeah, it really is.
Yeah, they're empty.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, sorry, Pete. trod on your line.
What is it?
I was gonna make a joke, but it's far too filthy for this
podcast.
Oh here we go.
Oh, lady.
Oh, love you.
He just looked at the camera.
If only if only Matthew Waterhouse was still here to explain to do
that.
Look at the camera.
Unless you're Linda Baron, it's the end it's the end of an episode
yes.
Yes, it really infuriated Richard and Todd when Kim Morton did
that to Richard Todd.
When did you have time to get out of that massive frock?
Yes.
Which took a 2 hours to put on.
Yeah.
Mariner just thought about it.
It was super embarrassing.
Oh, thank you.
Oh, that's right.
It was hidden in his mind.
Yes.
Cool.
I love that. did the world of good.
Rack is completely outstripping Tegan.
Wow, he's so good, isn't he?
Whishing.
Wishingly good.
He's not meant to be able to do that.
I didn't just say warp, warp.
Yeah, or whizzing crooning.
No, stop.
How old do we think she is then?
Because, I mean, obviously she's back in closing time many 100s of
years later.
No, she's still Nurse Gladys Emmanuel, most time.
Do you think she's 40?
Oh yeah.
Yeah, that, that, that could be it.
Every woman of a certain age is 40. 40 right now.
Oh, look at that.
That is a big one.
It is a great one, isn't it?
They're all.
But we're also getting, it's funny you mentioned the Iliad, because
we're getting quite a bit of Greek acting in this, aren't we
standing up and...
Yeah, well, those...
Another 3 shot where they're just looking, not at the camera, but
they're just sort of directed at the camera.
And it gives, she's doing a great job there too.
With them being super impassive. 79 now.
Yeah.
This is 36 years ago.
I don't know.
What age?
Around about that.
So yeah, it should be 43.
I always forget to factor in the 90s when I do this.
I think we all do happen.
They didn't happen to me either.
But it's interesting how, like, she and him get jettisoned and you
see those images go, but the other people get put across the plank
just disappear.
They disappear.
Yeah.
That is a beautiful, whatever the hell that is, isn't it?
Yeah, I do love that line from Mariner.
What is grief?
Because we already know that Mariner doesn't know what love is.
And so we feel sorry for him, but then we realise, oh, this also
means you would never feel sad and you would never feel sorrow.
Yeah.
And just the fact that, you know, Tegan doesn't answer, but
immediately turns up, like, you know, why are we going over
there?
Um, it's just another beautiful scene.
I could watch Christopher Brown and Janet Fielding just in a 2
handed play.
And now we have... 12 episode.
Yes.
It's a king to surprise.
That's the shiny crystalline ship thing.
Yeah.
And also that you don't see what enlightenment means to lots of
people.
It would be good if you would have seen what it meant to Mariner
or Tegan or whatever.
Exactly.
But now it's just like suddenly turns into a little bomb when you
when you push it off a table.
Look at the googly eyes on Cyril Luckham's duck.
That's terrible.
It's it's like it's done a big line of coke or taking a shit.
Oh, it did, all over his head.
Okay, we're marking the time code for this..
One hour and 37 minutes.
I do feel if Bowie had lived just a bit longer, he'd have been
wearing these outfits.
We all were back.
It's Cruise Green.
Guys are too young to remember that.
Is this where the Shadows and the Vorlons came from?
Interesting thought.
Because JMS was a fan.
He was.
That kind of surprise is really annoying me now.
You'll never, Richard's ruined that.
But I agree with Colin, the idea of being able to see what, what
just more of this.
It's really kind of too late in the day, isn't it?
And just a little bit of McGuffin that also works as a night light
and Pokemon.
Yeah, and you wouldn't be able to fight in America, but you could
buy a semi-automatic weapon.
I guess it is a McGuffin, isn't it?
Like, yeah.
Did me own air for this, just like that William Parnell.
Wow, he really does.
If Billy had lived, that's exactly what he would have been like
with a duck on his head.
And a lot of foundation.
Oh, I feel sad to lose them.
It does look like an egg cup, doesn't it?
There's an implication for me there that this whole thing was set
up by the White Guardian because he's the one who sends the
Eternals back and he's the one who sort of dismisses Mariner when
Mariner says I don't want to go.
He's like back, back into the void.
You know, it's...
Oh, the void.
That's why, yeah, yeah.
Now they've taken off the...
Top.
And we see the diamond.
Wow.
That really doesn't look like a diamond.
I think Heston Blumenthal's made that.
Almost like the BBC doing man of steel, isn't it?
Is that what we said all that was for?
Unless, of course.
Ah, yes.
I'm not talking out of my darkness.
Oh goodness.
Those eyebrows are stupid aren't they?
Has anyone ever said that?
Well, I think he's looked at Valentine dial and thought, how can I
achieve the same look?
Yeah.
God, that duh.
That is so bad.
That's what they should have CGI.
Yeah.
Literally, CG.
Yeah, like they could have had the dark blinking and stuff, like
doing reaction.
Smiling. like quirming.
Reaction just before that.
Oh, that really?
That's not a bad effect.
No, not bad.
We did this great effect back in 79.
Let's do it again.
No, but they set fire to that chair.
Yeah, really?
Sorry, I wasn't looking for many hours, 78?
And that way, Pete's just standing at the side, just observing
everything and letting, well, Turlow.
Yeah, Colin.
I want Tegan to have a meltdown.
Oh, he's just throwing a bit of Scomo's coal in as well.
I want to see taking over meltdown.
You mean you were trying to kill us all the time, you certain
person I can't say on a podcast?
No, where she's at.
James can.
She's actually she is cross with them.
Yeah.
Great line.
Yeah, that is good.
It is.
Although Charles Daniels points out, so what was the diamond
then?
What was it?
Why did it make him blow up?
It's all part of an IKEA furniture set.
A bathtub.
So a 3rd encounter.
In big finish.
No, season 12.
Series 12, whatever.
Nah, wait.
Finish has already done it.
And it was better than this.
Uh.
No, we won't be doing that.
No.
I've got the budget.
In fact, we're never going to do that.
It ends on such a Soto note, doesn't it?
It's kind of, should be an end of season thing, really, shouldn't
it?
Yeah.
You can all come back next week for my demons.
So well, let's do the commentary on that now.
Bye.
You've got nothing on.
I know.
I'll take you to...
Blackpool.
So does anyone have any sort of closing remarks because I'm going
to take the better mic off, James?
Rosette.
I enjoyed it.
Enjoyed it thoroughly.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's one of the best, if not the best Davison story
got a good plot, it's got heart, it's got good stuff for all the
regulars.
And a pretty great guest cast.
I mean, even Lee John, who's not a good actor, is entertaining.
So, you know.
Exactly.
I love it.
I think it's one of my favourites as well.
It's beautifully directed.
The script is great.
Mariners, terrific character.
Great music, love it.
James.
I have no particular opinion about this story.
Thanks for joining us.
And that's why you're on the podcast.
All right.
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.
We'll be back soon with a very special Christmas episode and then
back in the new year with our coverage of series 2.
Over on Jody interterra.
You can hear our hot takes on every episode of series 11.
That's Jodieintterra.com, Jodie Interterra on Apple Podcasts and
at Jodie Interterra on Twitter.
And on Bonfinger, you can find commentaries very much like this
one, only drunker and more profane, covering every film in the
James Bond franchise.
That's bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts
and at bondfingercast on Twitter.
Until next time, may you have the wisdom to realise that
Enlightenment wasn't the commentary it was the friends we made
along the way.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
See you soon.
Good night.
Cheerio.
Good night.