WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:40:59 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.479 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.200 the only Doctor Who podcast, whose analysis of any given Doctor 3 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.380 Who episode does not in any way constitute a form of legal 4 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:46.799 contract. 5 00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:48.000 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:48.060 --> 00:00:48.899 I'm Todd. 7 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:49.859 I'm James. 8 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.219 I'm a thinly stretched plot device for this episode. 9 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:55.259 Happy year, everyone. 10 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:59.579 Yeah, so it's a new year, a new season, and a new, new doctor 11 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:02.640 which means it must be time for us to see what we think of new 12 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.799 whose difficult 2nd album. 13 00:01:04.859 --> 00:01:08.280 Let's start by taking a trip to New Earth. 14 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.879 The windiest place in Wales, not the air that buffets between 15 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.780 Billy's teeth whenever she grins on a landmark, but... 16 00:01:33.780 --> 00:01:35.040 I thought she's breathing out through a note. 17 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:36.420 Yes, ouch. 18 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:38.879 Has she got new, new, new, new, new, taken this? 19 00:01:38.939 --> 00:01:39.540 Not yet. 20 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:40.799 Not yet. 21 00:01:40.859 --> 00:01:42.900 They're her season 4 teeth. 22 00:01:43.019 --> 00:01:48.299 We refer to the gentle listener to the big chief, 12 inch dolly of 23 00:01:48.299 --> 00:01:53.879 her that is possibly the cruellest piece of casting I've ever seen 24 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:55.260 since. 25 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:57.239 Oh, actually, no, there's some pretty cruel casting in this 26 00:01:57.239 --> 00:01:58.140 episode too. 27 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:04.319 When we did Black Orchid, I suggested that the garden party in 28 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:07.799 Black Orchid was taking place on the Planet Castria after all the 29 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:08.759 barriers had fallen. 30 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:14.639 And this is very much the same. next door. 31 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:16.139 Yeah, just next door. 32 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:18.900 And it was still warm enough to let Janet fall. 33 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:20.340 Exactly. 34 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:26.580 So it is, I mean, it's a beautiful location and it is our 1st 35 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:27.539 alien planet. 36 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:32.580 They've obviously been very reluctant to do an alien planet for a 37 00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:33.180 couple of reasons. 38 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:36.780 I think to not alienate the audience, but also because they didn't 39 00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:38.580 want to do it crackly. 40 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.979 They didn't want to just go to a quarry endorse it, you know. 41 00:02:40.979 --> 00:02:43.199 They went to a cliff edge in Wales. 42 00:02:43.259 --> 00:02:44.460 Exactly. 43 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:48.060 This is their 1st alien planet, isn't it? 44 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:48.659 Yeah, yeah. 45 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:49.500 Yeah, okay. 46 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:51.300 But before that happens, of course. 47 00:02:51.419 --> 00:02:53.879 We have a little introduction to the new series. 48 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:56.520 So the pre-credits teaser. 49 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:00.780 Very, very quickly and efficiently reestablishes what the series 50 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:01.319 is about. 51 00:03:01.379 --> 00:03:05.400 So we get Jackie and Mickey and a farewell. 52 00:03:05.460 --> 00:03:06.060 Yes. 53 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:06.539 Yeah. 54 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:10.139 I guess we assume that this is them leaving after the Christmas 55 00:03:10.139 --> 00:03:10.860 invasion. 56 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:16.020 Yes, I think so, and part of their contractual obligations for the 57 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:16.259 season. 58 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:17.639 Oh, just to have them back. 59 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:20.340 Well, you know, got to be in 6 episodes. 60 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:21.840 Here you go, here's your cameo. 61 00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:27.180 It's implied in latest stories and in, I think, some of the books 62 00:03:27.180 --> 00:03:30.719 that they actually stayed there for quite a while. 63 00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:32.520 It's actually quite a while after Christmas. 64 00:03:32.580 --> 00:03:35.639 It is actually, doesn't, doesn't look it on the telly. 65 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:40.379 I guess, so that you can fit big finish stories in between them. 66 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:42.780 I always think there's a couple of days max. 67 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:47.879 Yeah, I liked it a lot, actually, because it recaptured the moment 68 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:49.560 at the end of World War three. 69 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:53.939 You notice that Jackie can't bear to watch the TARDIS materialise 70 00:03:53.939 --> 00:03:59.639 and she walks off and Mickey is just there, you know, staring at 71 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:00.360 it as it goes. 72 00:04:00.419 --> 00:04:06.539 And notice, too, that both Jackie and Mickey say, I love you, I 73 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:10.199 think, to Rose, and Rose says it back to Jackie, but not to 74 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:10.680 Mickey. 75 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:12.780 Not to Mickey because she's a cow. 76 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:15.120 She's really, she really is. 77 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:19.379 She's awful. you'll be hearing a lot more of that this year. 78 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:25.379 I don't think David's very nice too. splashing the Nashes in this 79 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:26.339 episode, aren't they? 80 00:04:26.459 --> 00:04:27.839 There's a lot of gnashing. 81 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:29.100 A lot of new teeth. 82 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:29.819 Oh man. 83 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:31.259 I think you've said this before. 84 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:33.360 Rose is supposed to be a unlikeable character. 85 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:35.579 Well, Billy says she is. 86 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:37.259 That's how she was playing her. 87 00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:40.379 Yeah, I don't know that she's unlikeable, but I do think that 88 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:41.339 she's kind of selfish. 89 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.819 But Russell's also said that's himself when he was younger. 90 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:49.980 So, well, he's, you know, he's given her the name Tyler, which is 91 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:51.839 the name that he gives all his characters. 92 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.899 He's basically named her after himself. 93 00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:00.420 Like, you know, it's very definitely who he imagined he was when 94 00:05:00.420 --> 00:05:02.279 he was watching Doctor Who in the 70s, I think. 95 00:05:02.819 --> 00:05:04.980 Russell Tyler Davies. 96 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.560 Yeah, Russell Tyler Davies, Russell Ver Davies. 97 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:11.339 Is that what the T actually stands for? 98 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:12.480 No, stands for not. 99 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:13.139 TARDIS. 100 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:18.060 It was already a Russell Davis in equity, and so he just added the 101 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:18.360 tea. 102 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:20.220 Tiberius TARDIS. 103 00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:22.199 It stands for tea. 104 00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:29.220 It's interesting. 105 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:34.319 This series opener of the 4 that Russell writes is always the one 106 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.899 that I always considered to be not as good as all the others. 107 00:05:37.019 --> 00:05:38.160 I agree. 108 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:41.519 However, the day after. 109 00:05:41.579 --> 00:05:48.899 In this rewatch, you know, I think a year later after Rose, already 110 00:05:48.899 --> 00:05:52.860 the graphics work looks so much better in this than the previous 111 00:05:52.860 --> 00:05:54.420 year, which looks really dated. 112 00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:58.560 And I actually think the story itself hangs together much better 113 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:01.259 than all the set pieces in Rome. 114 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:06.600 So even if I don't think it's necessarily realised towards the end 115 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:08.519 the best. 116 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:10.319 But I actually enjoyed this. 117 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:14.639 Certainly the 1st 30 minutes a lot more than I previously had. 118 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:17.639 And I was talking to friends of the podcast, someone more about 119 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:19.319 this during the week. 120 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:24.060 And we were saying like in these 1st 2 seasons, because I think we 121 00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:26.579 were so worried that the show could get cancelled either because 122 00:06:26.579 --> 00:06:29.819 it's new or it's new doctor, whenever there's an episode that's 123 00:06:29.819 --> 00:06:33.120 slightly, whatever we perceive to be below quality, we think the 124 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.120 ratings are going to crash in and we sort of project onto it that 125 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:37.079 it's really that terrible. 126 00:06:37.139 --> 00:06:41.339 So I was actually really surprised at, certainly for the first, you 127 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:44.819 know, half an hour or so, that I was actually really enjoying it 128 00:06:44.819 --> 00:06:48.540 and found down the performances and what was going on and the 129 00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:49.019 story. 130 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:50.459 Really good. 131 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:55.019 I think we've talked a little bit before about how much weight. we 132 00:06:55.019 --> 00:06:59.399 put on Doctor Who, each new episode back then when it was 1st 133 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:02.519 starting, and that's exactly what you were saying, because New 134 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:07.500 Earth wasn't as good as Rose or wasn't as, you know, explosive and 135 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:11.759 and interesting as Rose, we were worried that the show was going 136 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.000 to, you know, had lost its mojo. 137 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:18.720 And I think because we've got the Christmas invasion as well 138 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.839 introducing the 2nd season, really. 139 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.800 The opening episode doesn't have to do everything that the 140 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.040 previous opening episodes and the 2 subsequent opening episodes 141 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.699 have to do. 142 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.560 It doesn't have to introduce a new character. 143 00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:34.680 It really is just us off and adventure together. 144 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:36.120 But it is interesting. 145 00:07:36.180 --> 00:07:39.779 I think the fact that, you know, here you've got Mickey and Jackie 146 00:07:39.779 --> 00:07:43.079 there at the beginning, you've got a recurring villain in the Lady 147 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:46.439 Cassandra, you've got New New Earth, which is like right next door 148 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.160 to platform 5 or one or whatever it was back in. 149 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:52.860 The 2nd episode, you've got the face of bow. 150 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:57.480 There's a lot of elements here that are trying to, you know, say 151 00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:58.920 to the audience, This is still the same show. 152 00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:00.300 In a coherent world. 153 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:02.939 Even if we've got a new doctor, because, you know, we've only had 154 00:08:02.939 --> 00:08:05.519 the new doctor really for, you know, 20 minutes or whatever. 155 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:07.560 This is his 1st big outing. 156 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:08.759 Yeah. 157 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:12.480 His, you know, we didn't do a proper episode of the Christmas 158 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:13.079 invasion. 159 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:16.259 Obviously, we just did a commentary, but, you know, the big thing 160 00:08:16.259 --> 00:08:19.860 about the Christmas invasion is it works because it's full of 161 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:23.579 characters that we already like and that enables Russell to keep 162 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:25.980 the doctor off stage for a long time. 163 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:31.019 Now he's here, giving him a world that we already know from a, you 164 00:08:31.019 --> 00:08:34.440 know, well liked previous episode, a pretty well-remembered 165 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:35.039 episode, I think. 166 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:37.860 Boomtown, because you've got that big Welsh cultural centre. 167 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:41.519 Yeah, slap bang as the obvious hospital. 168 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.299 It's the millennium, the millennium centre on Cardiff Bay 169 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:45.779 which... 170 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:46.860 Oh, as a hospital. 171 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:47.639 Yeah, yeah. 172 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:50.340 Yeah, I was watching it going, oh, I've been in that foyer. 173 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.000 In fact, that toy... can't remember. 174 00:08:54.059 --> 00:08:58.379 That foyer will be another hospital in the girl who waited in a 175 00:08:58.379 --> 00:09:01.860 few years, and of course, that building provided all of the 176 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:06.299 corridors for Van Staten's base in Dalek, and it appears over and 177 00:09:06.299 --> 00:09:07.320 over again. 178 00:09:07.379 --> 00:09:08.580 So that's Millennium Stadium. 179 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.159 It's the basement of the football stadium. 180 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:13.080 Oh, just see, they've got that one. 181 00:09:13.139 --> 00:09:15.960 There's more than one public building in Wales. you sure? 182 00:09:16.019 --> 00:09:18.240 Yes, they're all called millenniums. 183 00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:21.299 Because that's the only time they ever spend any money. 184 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:26.220 But it's very interesting in those 1st few minutes how well the 185 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:28.980 doctor and rows are getting on and how, you know, they're smiling 186 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:31.980 at each other and they're sort of, you know, reinforcing this is 187 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:33.120 our 1st date and everything. 188 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.659 And she's accepted him as the new man after the, you know, the 189 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:38.039 Christmas special. 190 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:40.080 So sort of, you know, Sandy's audience. 191 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:43.200 Yes, he's the doctor and she loves him, so you need to as well. 192 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:46.259 In fact, it's upped a bit, hasn't it? 193 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:51.840 Like the relationship is much more clearly approaching boyfriend 194 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:52.740 girlfriend. 195 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:54.179 Oh, I love being here. 196 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:54.899 I love it. 197 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.240 I can't believe that's not Billy Piper. 198 00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:02.700 I can't believe it's not Sophie. 199 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:06.960 We've just got the, I've just got the whole tourism, Wales, spend 200 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:10.440 your honeymoon on the grass and we'll spray it with apple cider. 201 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:16.799 No, they're already completely abominable. obnoxious and I just 202 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.899 want them to have something horrible happen to them. 203 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.279 Fortunately, it does. 204 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:22.799 Really quickly. 205 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:26.220 The wet t-shirt competition is the most jarring thing. 206 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.940 And the only thing that actually revived my my attention this time 207 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:30.240 around. 208 00:10:30.299 --> 00:10:31.500 I remember this being quite dull. 209 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.360 And it certainly hits a lot of beats. 210 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.100 And it also looks incredibly cheap. 211 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:37.139 And yet it's the most expensive prosthetics. 212 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:37.799 I think they would have. 213 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.019 It's a very costly thing to do for TV. 214 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:44.399 But again, if I had all the dollies, you feel this is just like 215 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:46.980 finding a lot of toys in the toy bus and going, I'll put them all 216 00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:48.240 on the table and have an adventure. 217 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:50.519 I think that's how he writes his synopsis. 218 00:10:50.580 --> 00:10:52.080 What were you going to say about the wet t-shirt? 219 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:53.279 T-shirt competition. 220 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:57.059 Billy Piper did not know that she was going to get sprayed with 221 00:10:57.059 --> 00:10:57.419 me. 222 00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:59.159 So that's a real reaction? 223 00:10:59.220 --> 00:10:59.879 Yes, yes. 224 00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:01.440 Russell did not tell her. 225 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:05.039 And the director didn't tell her that that was going to happen. 226 00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:08.220 And so that is her real reaction. 227 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:09.240 But she doesn't swear. 228 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:11.700 But they, like, pro. 229 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:12.960 And her teeth staying. 230 00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:17.039 But they kept it in because it was so hilarious. 231 00:11:17.100 --> 00:11:18.179 I like that. 232 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.039 I like that whole. so silly. 233 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:23.759 Well, I think Russell says in the commentary that it makes them 234 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:24.299 part of the world. 235 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:29.519 So they're not just wandering around on obvious set or, you know, a 236 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.259 public building in Cardiff. 237 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.840 They are wet. 238 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:35.159 They are in the world. 239 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:37.440 Something happens to them that makes them part of the world. 240 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:42.240 And it's a fun, silly comedy bit that is ends up being crucial to 241 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:44.220 the way that the episode is finally resolved. 242 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.460 So I think it's really very good. 243 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:51.960 And again, it's Russell's obsession with verticality and lifts and 244 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:52.679 things as well. 245 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.340 They get in different lifts by mistake and one goes up and one 246 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:56.759 goes down. 247 00:11:56.820 --> 00:11:59.639 Billy gets out to the wrong lift. 248 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:00.779 Oh, does she? 249 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:01.019 Yeah. 250 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.059 She gets into the right lift, gets out the left. 251 00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:04.740 There you go. 252 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.019 That could have been the tradesman's entrance or something. 253 00:12:07.259 --> 00:12:09.659 It was sideways very quickly. 254 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:10.980 Sideways, really quickly. 255 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:12.840 No, I'm not going to touch that remark. 256 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.740 Yeah, every Shakespeare had a forested Arden, didn't he? 257 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.799 But, you know, well, doors off stage, but it's a nice little 258 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:21.539 theatre trope 1st of the year. 259 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.220 But yeah, not like that whole lift sequence. 260 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.080 I just, yeah, it's just delightful. 261 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.019 And it's so silly, like, you know, the fact that, you know, it 262 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:33.480 gets totally drenched, then totally dried with powder and 263 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.460 everything and it's just perfectly fine to walk out, you know? 264 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.200 It doesn't quite make sense. 265 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:39.480 Like you kind of think, no, you couldn't be completely dry. 266 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:40.019 But you are. 267 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:41.820 So, you know, yeah. 268 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:43.440 You know, it's a fast drying poison. 269 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:43.799 I mean. 270 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:48.960 You know, it reminds me of Peter Tottenham shouting out, sterile 271 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.879 area in arc in space. 272 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.899 And notice it would have been called decontamination in the 273 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:58.080 Hinchcliffe era, but here it's just called disinfectant because 274 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.860 you know, we're trying to keep it comprehensible to the viewers at 275 00:13:01.860 --> 00:13:02.399 home, I think. 276 00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:06.960 Yeah, because viewers back in the 70s actually had wide vocabulary 277 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:08.820 because they read things. 278 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:10.019 They did. 279 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.259 I was alive in the 70s. 280 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:14.039 I do understand. 281 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:16.620 Constant fear of nuclear war. 282 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:18.480 That helped too. 283 00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:24.840 So one goes up and one goes down. 284 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:26.100 What do we want to talk about first? 285 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:30.299 So we knew Cassandra was going to be in it because we'd heard her 286 00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:35.340 voice and we had seen the little spider thing creeping through the 287 00:13:35.340 --> 00:13:38.340 apple grass when we were still on location. 288 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:45.720 I was a little bit disappointed, kind of, at the incredibly pat. 289 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:48.899 Well, as Richard said, sort of plot device that enables her to 290 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:49.500 come back. 291 00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:56.519 You remember when we did the end of the world, I said that, well, I 292 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:59.340 think James said that Cassandra was literally mooning the audience 293 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:03.720 that the whole, that the whole directly behind her mouth was her 294 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:08.879 bum hole, um, she'd had everything removed and was just, uh, like 295 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.779 all of us are sort of, um, hollow tube. 296 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:15.000 Oh, the other. 297 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.259 Nothing in between. 298 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.600 It's alimentary to Watson. 299 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:19.379 That's it. 300 00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:23.100 It is extremely obvious in end of the world. 301 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:24.960 Yeah, it's meant to be that. 302 00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:28.080 But here they kind of throw that away and say that was her front 303 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.120 half and this is her back half and it makes no sense. 304 00:14:30.179 --> 00:14:32.100 I like that we get to see her all halves. 305 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:35.879 It's lovely to see Zoe Wanamaker in a frock camping it up. 306 00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:38.279 With a whole lot of Nelly Queens. 307 00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:40.559 It's like, you're not getting lots of attention in this one other 308 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.460 than comments on your dress. 309 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.399 No wonder, no wonder no one told you you're beautiful. 310 00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:45.960 Exactly. 311 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.799 It's nice. actually nice to see her on screen in the film 312 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:50.340 projection. 313 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.000 I assume that that's recorded as a film projection because she was 314 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.720 that film was taken at a 1920s party, so they decided to do it 315 00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.220 like that because... 316 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:02.519 I also just sort of think that looks cooler than just a sort of 317 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:03.299 dumb old screen. 318 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.360 Like, again, it gives it a little bit more physicality and stuff. 319 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:11.340 And Doctor Who, you know, like leaning into the fact that their 320 00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:14.580 technology is always going to look a little bit crummy or a little 321 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:15.480 bit store bored. 322 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:18.299 I thought that was a nice choice. 323 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.659 Yeah, but it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in your head 324 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:24.899 Canon, Todd, does a pretty good job of dealing with it, I think. 325 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.259 She filmed everything in one day. 326 00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:29.879 In that dress? 327 00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:32.399 Yes, in that dress. 328 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:33.120 And stretched it out. 329 00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:36.000 Yeah, and she is very good. 330 00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:38.519 And you can see why they want her back and she's funny. 331 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:44.100 So in my research, I discovered that apparently, sorry, Wanamaker 332 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:46.080 is in stage for decay episode two. 333 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:47.039 What? 334 00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:50.220 According to IMDb, so that might all just... 335 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:55.019 Well, it's IMDb. as a child villager. 336 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.639 She wasn't that young. 337 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.600 I thought she was Mr. Kimber or whatever that name. person's name 338 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:00.840 is. 339 00:16:00.899 --> 00:16:02.279 She's a bit older than me. 340 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:05.759 Actually, though, that was a while ago, isn't it? 341 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:08.159 isn't it? 342 00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:10.379 Actually, that's possible because she came over, her dad's same 343 00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:13.379 want to make her as the American director and actor who had to get 344 00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:15.779 out because of the MacArthy stuff. 345 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:16.860 He didn't work for a long time. 346 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.879 He's in lots of episodes of the Avengers, the champions, the Baron 347 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.360 the Saint. 348 00:16:21.419 --> 00:16:24.120 That's instrumental in the recreation, the globe. 349 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.360 Exactly, which he was going to say, which he's most famous for, is 350 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.899 his theatre work, because he did not shite tea, is not just me. 351 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:35.700 And he was, he would have had a better career, but the anger that 352 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:39.840 he presents on screen is exactly how he presents in theatre and he 353 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:41.279 wasn't an easy dad to grow up with. 354 00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:45.120 And Zoe has kind of said that and also apparently presents a 355 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:45.600 similar thing. 356 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:47.580 I'm really sorry she wasn't in more Harry Potter. 357 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:48.840 Well, you know what? 358 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:49.799 But she's a bit mouthy. 359 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.580 Yeah, yes. 360 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.320 We back to the teeth. 361 00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:55.080 Well, I've got a couple of reaction shots. 362 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:55.740 There, sorry. 363 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.899 I'm way too French and short now. 364 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.139 But she got really angry that the, what the American actors were 365 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:02.940 paid more than the English actors or that. 366 00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:03.600 That's right. 367 00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:04.740 Bloody fair enough. 368 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:05.160 I agree. 369 00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:05.940 I absolutely agree. 370 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.640 I think it was also the kids were being paid so much because they 371 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.299 complained and they were the stars, even though all of the, you 372 00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:14.279 know, you have Dame Bloody Maggie Smith. 373 00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:18.119 Yeah, yeah. it's not just the bee is silent, is it? 374 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:19.019 It's the full time. 375 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:21.900 Yeah. 376 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:23.519 Anyway, what else happens in this show? 377 00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:24.480 Oh, cats. 378 00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:26.819 I think Russell's actually spot on with cats. 379 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.099 So the cats thing as nuns. 380 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:29.640 Where is that going? 381 00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:30.960 It is very strange. 382 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:32.460 They're cat nun nurses. 383 00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:36.299 Well, you just said, stick an animal head on a dolly and you've 384 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:36.900 got a monster. 385 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:37.920 Yeah, yeah. 386 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:40.140 Well, he'll do it later with the Jadoon as well. 387 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.299 The cat. 388 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:46.500 The cat people would be back for the sequel to this, obviously, as 389 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:46.799 well. 390 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:49.500 I think the prosthetics look amazingly good. 391 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:54.779 Like, I was hugely impressed by how expressive the actors can be 392 00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:55.920 under those. 393 00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:57.900 You know, they clearly move with the actors. 394 00:17:58.019 --> 00:17:59.460 What do we think at the time? 395 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.460 Was it just the freshness and bling of it and not the sharp 396 00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:03.000 editing? 397 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:05.400 We should give a throw to the director. 398 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:06.480 It's James Hawes again? 399 00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.900 I think it is because it's just neatly done. 400 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.119 You can see they've put everything into getting it right. 401 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.680 Yes, it is James. 402 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:15.420 The editing I really, really like. 403 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.900 And then sometimes it's almost too quick, but again, that needs to 404 00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:19.319 be done. 405 00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:22.619 And it actually still feels quite fresh 80 years later. 406 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:24.119 How long has it been? 407 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:25.140 about that long. 408 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.119 The cats the cats look wonderful. 409 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.480 I mean, obviously the one budgetary thing is when they all have 410 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:35.039 the veils over the top. you know, in the latter part of the 411 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:35.279 episode. 412 00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:39.000 But the 3 main cats are all played by really amazingly strong 413 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:39.480 actors. 414 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:41.880 Hairy hursuit actors. 415 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:44.339 Well, including, including Francine. 416 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:48.000 Martha's mother who plays Julius Caesar. 417 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.039 Yeah, who plays Matron Jatt. 418 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:51.660 No, Casp. 419 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:52.380 Casp. 420 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:53.160 One of them. 421 00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:56.940 Anyway, not the older one, but the middle one who meets the 422 00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:57.180 doctor. 423 00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.240 You can always tell her... 424 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.440 She did Julius Caesar at RSC, which is apparently extraordinary 425 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:04.980 love to see. 426 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.940 Russell had her back for cucumber and she was very good in that as 427 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:09.180 well. 428 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:16.019 So she obviously will get a bigger role in next season. 429 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:20.579 And, of course, in Mumcon when I finally organise it. 430 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.299 She'll be one of the 3 main guests. right. 431 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:28.440 And I think that they're really amazingly good. 432 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:32.519 And it is also kind of Russell having another sly dig at religion 433 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:34.440 because, is there? 434 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:35.400 I think so. 435 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:39.059 I think the fact that, well, he kind of brings religion back into 436 00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:39.779 Doctor Who. 437 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.740 You know, in the future that we used to have in Doctor Who, in 438 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:44.700 Classic Doctor Who. 439 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:47.700 There wasn't really religion except for sort of weird occultists 440 00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:49.559 on sort of strange planets and stuff. 441 00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:54.299 And someone being Marestron Orthodox in Planet of Evil. 442 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:59.460 But now we do have religion and we're always slightly suspicious 443 00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:03.599 of it, I think, in Russell's Doctor Who, and here, obviously, these 444 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:09.660 nuns are making complicated and dodgy ethical judgements. 445 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:13.200 And so naturally they're kind of religious. 446 00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:16.140 I just like the way they sort of, they move and they just 447 00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:18.900 conspiratorily like talk to each other and the looks that they 448 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:24.059 give and when she flares up her claws and, yeah, they're a great 449 00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:25.140 little villain to have. 450 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.880 They're catlike in the sense that they glide and they're complete 451 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:30.960 psychopaths. 452 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:33.839 They kind of slink everywhere. 453 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.279 They rub their arse. 454 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.519 Again, they didn't strike me as particularly feline having lived 455 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:42.599 with one for so long. 456 00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:47.279 This feels like a lovely post-New Year Panto. 457 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:50.519 It actually feels like the panto we didn't get for Christmas in 458 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.640 that there's the numbered players doing the serial things. 459 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:55.980 They've even got all those green doors that open up and we're 460 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:56.339 behind you. 461 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:57.900 It's very, very panted. 462 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:01.019 And then there's lots of squishy zitty things to squeeze if you're 463 00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:03.420 a teenage boy watching this in the privacy of your own video 464 00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:04.440 bedroom. 465 00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:07.500 You know, there's callouts to most of the audience here. 466 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:12.299 I think my problem with this one is tonally, it all looks great 467 00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:16.500 but tonally, it doesn't give me very much, and I'd like to feel 468 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:19.200 more, say, for pretty much anyone in this. 469 00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:23.220 But the real, the real horror of what's going on, maybe it struck 470 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:26.880 you, but I just found this all again a bit panto villains. 471 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:29.220 I didn't really care for any of the people who were suffering. 472 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.759 And then they moon about like they're on the set of Oprah, after 473 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.440 all, being given a beauty treatment. 474 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.720 It's all very woo-woo at the end of it. 475 00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:40.140 I didn't gentle touching, although actually that probably could 476 00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:41.220 have been a bit saucier. 477 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:41.940 I couldn't it? 478 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:47.700 You know, in the original draft of the script, All of the diseased 479 00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:50.039 people were supposed to be killed by the doctor. 480 00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:51.240 Yeah, yeah. 481 00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:52.200 Really? 482 00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:53.460 That's so Russell isn't it? 483 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.940 Well, because he's absolutely kind of bleak and cynical. 484 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.599 He was going to put them all on a bus and have the Bannermen sort 485 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:01.680 of fire a gun at it. 486 00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:07.559 But Moffatt, Moffatt, criticised him, but creating interesting 487 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.880 characters and then melting. 488 00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:09.839 Melting them, yeah. 489 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:14.400 But I mean, the thing is that it's got to establish that David 490 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.599 Tennant is the doctor. 491 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:20.339 And so having him cure a whole bunch of sick people and say if 492 00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:21.539 their lives seems obvious. 493 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:25.200 Like it seems almost like, why are you even setting this in a 494 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.019 hospital if that's not what you're going to do at the end? 495 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.539 First drafts are just getting everything down and they're 496 00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:31.200 unfleshed out. 497 00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:31.859 Yeah. 498 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:34.140 I think it absolutely fleshy metaphor, yeah. 499 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:35.039 It had to be that. 500 00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:38.339 And so it's accident and emergency, isn't it? 501 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.740 No, it's called intensive care, that section. 502 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.980 And we discover that behind this sort of gleaming white hospital 503 00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:48.359 are these sort of catacombs full of people who are being 504 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:49.680 experimented on. 505 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:53.819 The catacombs look great and even the explosions, I think, do as 506 00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:54.059 well. 507 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.839 I mean, this is a big step up from the effects from like one year 508 00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:58.619 ago. 509 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.160 I don't think there's enough of these people, like, you know 510 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.480 downstairs or wherever and just talking about jumping forward and 511 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.059 talking about the resolution, like, you know, yes, I've got one 512 00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:12.059 lift with some liquid water and it goes on a few of them and then 513 00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:12.779 they touch other people. 514 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:16.980 That's the part of the episode that I find visually lets it down. 515 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.279 Like, I want to see, I want to see multiple lifts with multiple 516 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:21.720 lots of water and lots of people going in. 517 00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:23.220 Or feed it into the sprinkler system. 518 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:24.180 Something like that. 519 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.500 That's what falls down for me in terms of resolving the thing. 520 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.019 I just think that looks very weak and cheap. 521 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.500 Yeah, well, they can have, you know, giant catacombs because 522 00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:37.200 they're all just done in the computer, so it doesn't cost any more 523 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:42.299 to make them absolutely massive, but they don't have quite as many 524 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:45.960 extras as that shot would imply. 525 00:23:46.019 --> 00:23:50.819 And as Richard says, they're all just wandering around, you know 526 00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:53.339 like they're on Mogadon or something. 527 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:54.779 Maybe that was one of the cocktails. 528 00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.660 Yeah, maybe that was the Strokeats metaphors in this one. 529 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.960 So for me, that part of things lets things down with this episode 530 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.740 right? 531 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.480 Not the story, but how it's visually had to be represented on 532 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:06.779 screen. 533 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:09.480 What do you think about the doctor's reaction to it? 534 00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:13.440 So you've got this moral calculus where a group of people are 535 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.519 being tortured in order to cure a larger group of people of their 536 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:19.259 diseases? 537 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.759 And so it's a sort of, you know, utilitarian or sort of 538 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.880 consequentialist kind of moral calculation where you're hurting 539 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.000 some people to help a larger number of people. 540 00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:38.460 And I think Doctor Who's morality is very definitely always come 541 00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:41.880 down on, you know, on the opposite side of that, that that's the 542 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:42.599 wrong thing to do. 543 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:47.519 How do you feel about the doctor's reaction when he discovers it? 544 00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:49.799 Doesn't he get very angry and teethy? 545 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:50.940 Yeah, what do we think of that? 546 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.099 Well, there's a lot of teeth. 547 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.200 It was very David Tennant. 548 00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:58.799 Like, I think this aspect of this story is that he's very much the 549 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.099 doctor. you know, there's one aspect I don't particularly like 550 00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:03.900 which is the whole possession thing, but we'll talk about that 551 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:04.559 shortly. 552 00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.380 But he's very established as the doctor. 553 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:09.180 And does he give them one warning? 554 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:09.779 Does he say that? 555 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:10.140 Yeah. 556 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:10.680 Yeah. 557 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:14.519 And that, I'm watching slightly a few episodes ahead and that's 558 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:15.539 come up a few times now. 559 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.480 Like he gives this one morning and he did it last time, but then 560 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.759 it's like, boom, you know, that's it, you know? 561 00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:23.579 Well, I mean, Jody did the New Year's special. 562 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:25.200 She's still giving them one morning. 563 00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:34.740 So, I actually find this a little bit off putting. 564 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.619 I think it's the weakest thing about tenants' performances when he 565 00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:42.779 gets angry and snarly and um, his performance is very mannered 566 00:25:42.779 --> 00:25:44.099 generally. 567 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.579 And uh, it's like an act. 568 00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:50.099 And you kind of get that a little bit with Eccleston, where 569 00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:54.119 Eccleston is playing the doctor and that the doctor is in some 570 00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:56.400 sense a mask and then sometimes that mask drops. 571 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:01.500 And then you get to see Eccleston's real trauma with the part and 572 00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:04.920 his own indecision and insecurity, and that's why he's a 573 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.200 successful doctor, the mask falls. 574 00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:12.839 We never saw the mask full with Tom or Pat or even with John 575 00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:13.980 occasionally with John. 576 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:16.799 But that was actually quite interesting watching those again. 577 00:26:16.859 --> 00:26:19.740 But with David, no, I never see it. 578 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:24.720 It's a very mannered, perfectly presented poised part, and I think 579 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.339 that's why it's grating on me. 580 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:31.019 I'd like to actually see something of the truth of the actor. 581 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:31.799 I'm not getting it. 582 00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:34.920 There's something about the sort of lonely god thing, the fact 583 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:38.759 that he's setting himself up as a kind of moral arbiter who 584 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.579 decides whether something stops or not. 585 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:43.920 He's the one who decides that. 586 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:49.680 And the show is this year, like in 20, well, last year in 2018, has 587 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.619 very definitely moved away from that conception of the doctor. 588 00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:58.140 But here I do find his anger, his arrogance really off putting 589 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:00.539 like really off putting. 590 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:05.339 And I think it's great that the doctor gets angry at injustice and 591 00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:06.059 outrage. 592 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:07.200 And we saw it with Tom. 593 00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:11.819 You know, we saw it with Pertu, even, you know, he would do that. 594 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:16.019 But I just don't like the way that Tennant plays that particular 595 00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:16.740 emotion. 596 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.240 Interesting. 597 00:27:18.299 --> 00:27:21.599 That this is discussion we're having because I didn't come into 598 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.960 this thinking that so soon that we'd be talking about this. 599 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:28.319 And I actually didn't feel it as much as all that. 600 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:31.440 I just thought this is just part of his performance when he starts 601 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.980 boom, it's there, and it's going to break me down the track, but 602 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.619 it's not great here yet, but I, so I didn't actually have a 603 00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:38.460 problem with it at all. 604 00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:43.380 I always find myself surprised by how much I enjoy his performance 605 00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.299 whenever I go back to one of his episodes. 606 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.960 I can't remember, oh yeah, you know, this is why he's so popular. 607 00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:50.759 This is why he was so well liked. 608 00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:56.519 But I always go into it expecting to be annoyed by that. 609 00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:00.299 But I think the mask does slip slightly when he's talking when 610 00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:03.000 they face a bow and who's the cat with him? 611 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.480 Novice Haim is talking about this learning wanderer. 612 00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.200 You do see at least the look on his face. 613 00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:13.380 So you do, I think that mask is slipping there, but he doesn't let 614 00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:14.339 it slip totally. 615 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.539 It's just like, I think there are later episodes at times when you 616 00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:22.799 do see the mask slip and where the performance is much realer and 617 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:23.579 I do like that. 618 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:27.299 And I like the idea that the doctor is a performance, you know 619 00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:30.660 particularly in this era with a time war and all of that sort of 620 00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:30.839 thing. 621 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.000 It's, you know, I think it's interesting. 622 00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:35.339 It gives him a bit of interiority. 623 00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:45.180 Talking of his performance, he also has to perform as another 624 00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:48.059 character during this episode, which is, of course, the Lady 625 00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:50.400 Cassandra, which I'd love to talk about, right? 626 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 627 00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:57.420 And when I 1st watched this, I really detested his performance as 628 00:28:57.420 --> 00:28:58.500 the Lady Cassandra. 629 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.319 In fact, I detested Billy's performances, Lady Cassandra. 630 00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:05.220 I really, really hated that entire aspect of the entire show. 631 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:09.119 You know, when Billy was playing the Lady Cassandra, she was 632 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:12.720 wearing a Wonderbra... 633 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:18.000 She did. could look nowhere else during those scenes when she's on 634 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.819 screen and she unzips her top and she's got, you know, just 635 00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:24.240 fabulous breasts and it was all I could look at. 636 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:27.000 And then she's like, let's do the bouncing... 637 00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:30.180 Well, that bouncy parcel line is from queer as folk. 638 00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:37.440 So she says it's like being inside a bouncy castle and she sort of 639 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:39.839 jiggles her bum and her breast up and down. 640 00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:42.119 And I think she looks fabulous. 641 00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:45.480 I think there's that sort of problematic trope of women who are 642 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:49.500 kind of sexually aggressive are obviously evil. 643 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.680 But it's, I think she's having fun. 644 00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:58.079 I'm expecting Todd, you to go on and say, however, watching it 645 00:29:58.079 --> 00:29:59.940 this time, I thought it was really great. 646 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.980 However, however, listeners, watching it this time, I actually 647 00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:07.259 thought Billy's performance was really great. 648 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.299 It really is fun. 649 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:10.500 She needs it. 650 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:11.940 And when she kisses the doctor. 651 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.940 I was just bursting out laughing, like, you know, and his and his 652 00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:16.859 reaction to that, like I've still got it all. 653 00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:18.000 No, but he's squeaky. 654 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:19.740 He goes squeaky, squeaky voice. 655 00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:25.380 Yeah, no, I really enjoyed her possession performance this time 656 00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:29.039 which really sold it and improved this episode. so much for me, you 657 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.460 know, and and Chip's the other one who actually, like when he 658 00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:34.019 becomes the Lady Cassandra. 659 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.359 I also think his performance is really affecting as well. 660 00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:41.099 I just don't like, I still don't like the doctor getting possessed 661 00:30:41.099 --> 00:30:42.779 this early on in his reign. 662 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.160 I still... 663 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.900 It's the panto transformation scene. 664 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.240 It just... 665 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.180 But also too, like the fact that she has to get into the body 666 00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:54.960 using that huge device and then she can just zap herself, you know 667 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:56.279 and they're climbing up a big ladder. 668 00:30:56.339 --> 00:30:59.880 Like, not that, when it zaps into you, you don't suddenly let go 669 00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:01.680 of something, you know, for a split second. 670 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.180 You know, I just don't buy that. 671 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.779 Well, remember when Crozier invented technology not quite as 672 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:12.240 sophisticated as the time loads all kind of lost their bundle and 673 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.980 killed off Perry. 674 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.380 You know, like, I know, that's right. 675 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.920 But it was, you know, the most impressive piece of technology even 676 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.599 imaginable and it turns out that Lady Cassandra has it in the 677 00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:27.660 basement of a hospital. don't tell me it's actually called the 678 00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:28.019 same thing. 679 00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:31.740 No, no, but it's called a psychograph, but, you know, the ability 680 00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:37.140 to detach someone's psyche from their body and allow it to turn 681 00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:39.180 into something that travels from person to person. 682 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:43.859 You know, I had thought too that it was too soon to see David 683 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:47.160 Tennant acting odd before we knew what he was really like as a 684 00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:47.519 doctor. 685 00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:51.119 There's the famous thing in Star Trek, The Next Generation, where 686 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:56.220 the 2nd episode, The Naked Now has them all getting drunk and 687 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:58.680 behaving oddly, and it's kind of like, I don't even know who these 688 00:31:58.680 --> 00:31:59.279 people were. 689 00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:02.519 They were incredibly wooden in the 1st episode. 690 00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:05.519 I've got no sense of who any of these people are. 691 00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:09.359 You know, why are we showing them behaving oddly until I know what 692 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:09.839 they're like? 693 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:13.559 But he's actually only Cassandra for a little while, and I think 694 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:18.599 they're doing it to make it very clear how different tenant is 695 00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:20.339 going to be from Eccleston. 696 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:22.259 It was written for Eccles. 697 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:26.519 Eccleston would have torn his own head off rather than do that. 698 00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:29.160 I mean, this would be written for Eccleson at all. 699 00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:32.220 I think Eccles could have done that very, very well and it was 700 00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:34.259 part of his loosening up and one of the reasons he wanted to play 701 00:32:34.259 --> 00:32:34.740 the part. 702 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.380 He said it's for children, but it was also expanding the range. 703 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:39.299 Maybe, yeah, maybe you're right. 704 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:40.859 But it does... 705 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:44.819 I do like when he taunts wrote about loving or... 706 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:46.440 Yeah, finding the doctor attractive. attractive. 707 00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:47.220 I do like that. 708 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:48.180 Like, I mean, I will pay it. 709 00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:49.559 Like, it was better than I thought. 710 00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:54.599 But I don't think his acting's great in some of those. that's his 711 00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:56.460 weakest part of the acting for me in this episode. 712 00:32:56.460 --> 00:33:01.200 I think that what that does, though. 713 00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:06.359 That whole sequence is actually really, really good because it 714 00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.380 looks like a silly science fiction conceit where someone can just 715 00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:14.279 go from body to body and hilarity ensues. 716 00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:19.140 But when there's nowhere left for Cassandra to go, she ends up 717 00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:21.779 going into the body of one of the plague people. 718 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.740 Sorry, I'm laughing, listeners, because I'm just thinking of that 719 00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:26.519 woman's performance. 720 00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.200 Well, God. 721 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:30.180 The thing is, yeah, it's great, isn't it? 722 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.240 Because she's a shambling plague zombie and then she's got a 723 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:37.019 terribly posh voice and all of that, which is really quite fun. 724 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.900 But it's empathy. 725 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:42.539 You know, she inhabits that person's body. 726 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:47.460 She's spent all of her life obsessed with looking beautiful and 727 00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:51.420 has gone to great lengths in order to achieve that. 728 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.559 And she's in this horrific, degraded body. 729 00:33:55.619 --> 00:34:01.440 And when she comes back, when she's back in Rose's body, the 1st 730 00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:05.099 thing she says is that those people have never been touched. you 731 00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:10.019 know she actually learns empathy by inhabiting the body of another 732 00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:10.679 person. 733 00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:14.519 And so it gets to work as a metaphor for that, which I just think 734 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.420 is so beautiful. 735 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:17.099 And that's when the change happens. 736 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.019 Yes, I agree with you. 737 00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.539 The end of the device to get her to that. 738 00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:23.940 You know, that point is great. 739 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.760 And even the fact that she's investigating the whole and 740 00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:28.139 suspicious of these cat people anyway. 741 00:34:28.139 --> 00:34:30.239 Yeah, yeah. shows some sort of change. 742 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.900 Like, and and I think that's, you know, I'm actually sad at the 743 00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:34.079 end. 744 00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:35.039 Yeah. 745 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:39.900 I'm actually sad to see Chip and her reaction as an earlier self 746 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:43.079 that she actually has got warmth and caring there when we just 747 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.420 expect to have this bitchy trampoline. 748 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.380 She wasn't always that. 749 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.159 And that did affect me like actually, almost blumping. 750 00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:54.840 I think that's beautiful because she's also surrounded by, like 751 00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.019 she's expressing concern for someone who is utterly unimportant in 752 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:01.380 that scene when Chip comes back inhabited by her. 753 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:07.199 He's no one and he falls to the ground. everyone else ignores her 754 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.500 pleas for help, like no one else cares about him, and she gets to 755 00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:16.139 comfort herself as she dies. 756 00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.480 And it's that thing about touch as well. 757 00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:23.219 The cure to the disease is transmitted by touch, but also just 758 00:35:23.219 --> 00:35:25.800 concern and compassion are transmitted that way as well. 759 00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:29.639 And so she gets to hold herself as she dies. 760 00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:34.980 Um, and it is actually really good, I think. 761 00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:38.400 And I don't think we forgive Cassandra, particularly, you know 762 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:39.179 should we? 763 00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:42.960 No, typical, he, it was touched on at Boomtown last year. 764 00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.780 I mean, I think that's why I wasn't enjoying this so much. 765 00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:47.340 There wasn't any gravitas. 766 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.579 I know it's a panto and it's an opening thing, but Boomtown just 767 00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:51.239 had so much. 768 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:56.219 There was, I've run around in a chase comedy as well, Keystone 769 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:59.219 cops comedy, but with gravitous and human truth, and some really 770 00:35:59.219 --> 00:36:01.199 salient, perfect one-on-ones. 771 00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:04.440 And I miss that from the Eccleston doctor. 772 00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:06.780 I miss the adultiness. 773 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:12.780 This is all smarty pants kids dressing up and being a bit silly 774 00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:13.559 and fun. 775 00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:14.039 Yeah. 776 00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:18.000 Yeah, and like, I think there's a place for that, but I think that 777 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.980 it's going to become the new normal. 778 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:21.539 Yeah. 779 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:31.079 You were saying earlier, Richard, like, you don't really care very 780 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:32.880 much for many of these people. 781 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:34.380 And I think that's quite true. 782 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.219 Like, like, even up in the ward with, um, The Blue Man, who's not 783 00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:39.780 Blue Man. 784 00:36:39.780 --> 00:36:44.340 Duke of Manhattan and his Osada, which I think is just hilarious. 785 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:46.139 So she's Frau Clovis. 786 00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:49.739 She's the 1st of many women who look like this, who will appear in 787 00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:50.940 Doctor Who. 788 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:55.079 Yeah, Mr. Del Fox and Miss Foster and all of that. 789 00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:56.760 That's a look that we're going to. 790 00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:58.800 That's another avatar of Russell, isn't it? 791 00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:00.059 So, to. 792 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:00.719 That's it. 793 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:02.940 Look convincing in a lady suit. 794 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.480 I think it's, you know, when we were talking about the moral 795 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:07.440 calculus. 796 00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:11.159 The people who are being treated in the hospital are all 797 00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:12.239 incredibly rich. 798 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:15.239 Some of them don't seem to have anything sort of particularly 799 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:18.780 wrong with them, although the Duke of Manhattan was turning into a 800 00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:19.920 statue hilariously. 801 00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:24.179 So I think that needs to factor into the moral calculus, that it's 802 00:37:24.179 --> 00:37:28.800 people being oppressed and imiserated in order to make the rich 803 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.300 better off. 804 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.619 And so it does add a sort of a class thing to that whole kind of 805 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:36.239 moral allegory. 806 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:38.579 It is very funny. 807 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:39.179 I think they are. 808 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.460 Oh, those 1st sequences are very funny. 809 00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:45.960 Yeah, you know, and lots of blue people and white people and red 810 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:46.199 people. 811 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:49.260 But also when they, you know, when they go through there and they 812 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:52.139 look out the window, like all that special effects of what's going 813 00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:54.539 on in new earth flying outside. 814 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.900 Like, I've got the Blu-ray, and I never really had noticed it 815 00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:58.139 before. 816 00:37:58.199 --> 00:37:58.920 It looks winning. 817 00:37:58.980 --> 00:37:59.880 It looks really great. 818 00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.739 Big set with a high ceiling and everything. 819 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:03.599 It does look it does look very good. 820 00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:06.539 But, you know, if she was actually touched, like at the end 821 00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:09.599 because she's such a cow, like with her thing, I wouldn't have 822 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:10.019 cried. 823 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.820 Like if she'd bit in the dust. 824 00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:12.719 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 825 00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:16.019 Like, I mean, she closes the door like the water as quickly as she 826 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:16.380 can. 827 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:22.679 So, um, Rose Cassandra has to jump and go down the, the lift well 828 00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:24.179 with um, David Tennant. 829 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:26.940 I mean, a lot of rope burned there between the legs probably. 830 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:32.940 Did you note that the working titles for this story were Body Swap 831 00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:34.320 and the Sunshine Camp? 832 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:36.539 Why has the sunshine came? 833 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.599 That's from its macraterra phase. 834 00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:42.119 I was thinking that when I was reading that. 835 00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:44.460 I was like, is that looking forward to gridlock? 836 00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:45.960 Well, maybe. 837 00:38:46.019 --> 00:38:48.960 I mean, it is possible that he had more ideas that he wanted and 838 00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.019 spun the others off into a sequel. isn't it? 839 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.980 Well, I mean, the face of Beau was originally supposed to impart 840 00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:57.840 his message and die at the end of this episode. 841 00:38:57.960 --> 00:38:59.219 Oh, was he? 842 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.619 And so he then decided that he would just say, well, we'll meet 843 00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:04.199 for the 3rd time for the last time. out during production that 844 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:05.099 they were getting a 3rd series. 845 00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:06.300 Oh, wow. 846 00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:07.079 Of this episode. 847 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:13.139 So they he went, oh, I'll crib that and use it in a later story. 848 00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:16.380 That's the most poignant moment for me, is the big rubber rest 849 00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:16.980 ahead. 850 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:21.239 Billy Piper's boyfriend broke the prop. 851 00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:23.340 Yes, he is, like playing with all the knobs. 852 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:28.860 Like you, Nathan, had you been given much of a chance on a set? 853 00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.579 Yes. 854 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.400 It's not John Barriman yet. 855 00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:35.579 I love the face of Bo. 856 00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.820 And I think it was a great way of getting the doctor in, and it is 857 00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:40.139 a bit of a cheat as well. 858 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:45.599 Like, um, and I love the doctor's reaction to its disappearance 859 00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:50.280 the textbook enigmatic line, I think, is beautifully hilariously 860 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:51.119 well delivered. 861 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:52.800 He can do comedy. 862 00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:53.699 It's a very funny line. 863 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.960 He can do comedy. 864 00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:57.960 But it's also very clever, the whole thing because it just, through 865 00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.239 the dialogue, it's just reinforcing that he is alone. 866 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:02.400 The time laws are gone, the war has happened and it's just 867 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:07.559 reinforcing things in the audience's mind. like we've settled 868 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:07.860 already. 869 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.079 Jackie, Mickey, the psychic paper. 870 00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:11.219 Here's the face about. 871 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:12.480 Here's the doctor, here's the rose. 872 00:40:12.539 --> 00:40:15.119 It's just reestablishing everything and just solidifying this is 873 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:16.440 where we are and this is where we're going from. 874 00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:17.760 Yeah, and what the doctor does. 875 00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:19.739 You know, I'm the doctor and I cured them. 876 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.300 That's exactly what he does. 877 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:27.179 Like he comes in, overthrows, a corrupt and oppressive system, and 878 00:40:27.179 --> 00:40:29.639 you know, frees prisoners and cures their disease. 879 00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:31.320 He's Jesus, really, isn't he? 880 00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:33.599 Jesus. 881 00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:35.039 Well, yes, he kind of does. 882 00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:00.719 Well, dear listener, it's time to leave New Earth and head back to 883 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:01.860 the crummy old version. 884 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:06.179 Join us next week in 19th century Scotland to learn more than we 885 00:41:06.179 --> 00:41:09.780 ever wanted to know about the royal family in tooth and claw. 886 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:13.679 In the meantime, you can find us at flights or entirety.com 887 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:17.400 flights through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE 888 00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:18.300 podcast on Twitter. 889 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:23.039 You can also find us at our series 11 flashcast Jody Interterterra 890 00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:26.820 which is at Jody Interterra.com, Jody Interterra on Apple Podcasts 891 00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:30.840 and at Jody Interterra on Twitter, and we're also available at our 892 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:36.059 James Bond Commentary podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com 893 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:39.239 Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcast and at Bondfingercast on 894 00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:39.539 Twitter. 895 00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:43.860 Until next time, may you find someone who looks at you, the way 896 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.420 that Cassandra looks at herself. 897 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:47.940 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 898 00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:48.780 Good night. 899 00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:49.619 See you soon. 900 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.800 How does a vertical trampoline actually work? 901 00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:00.539 That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan 902 00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:02.940 Bottomley, James Selwood and Richard Stone. 903 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.519 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane 904 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:06.780 Orberg. 905 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.900 This episode, already completely abominable, was recorded on the 906 00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:13.619 5th of January 2019 and released on the 17th of March. 907 00:42:15.059 --> 00:42:18.900 This week, we're happy to announce our new FTE dental support 908 00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:22.139 group, providing care, compassion, and contemporary prosthodontics 909 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:26.039 to the dentally distressed, including Rose Tyler, the Hoyks, and 910 00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:27.840 long-term patron Queen Zanxia. 911 00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:28.800 Call us today. 912 00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:33.059 This will never win any, you know, season polls or anything like 913 00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:36.659 that, but it's just gone, it, you know, it's gone up so much in my 914 00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:40.619 opinion, you know, once I was giving it, like, I don't know, if I 915 00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:42.960 go for marks, like, you know, less than 6 out of 10, but now I 916 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.119 think it's a solid 7 and I did enjoy it. 917 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:45.480 Yeah. 918 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.960 Oh, I love Doctor Who fans in their reading. 919 00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:50.400 I always do it James. 920 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:50.940 Get used to it. 921 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.699 I just generally like or dislike things. 922 00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:00.119 Well, it gets improved. improved dramatically for me. 923 00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:02.099 I give it a blue octagon. 924 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:03.300 Oh, thank you. 925 00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:03.900 Did you? 926 00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:04.739 Oh, yes. 927 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.800 Apple, grass, slash. 928 00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:10.500 Alpha 17 then. 929 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:13.019 Were you entertained, Tom? 930 00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:14.579 What by this? 931 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:20.159 I generally was surprised how much I got into this and enjoyed the 932 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:24.539 majority of it. bar a few little things because I was expecting 933 00:43:24.539 --> 00:43:27.719 that I'd be sitting there going, oh, not this, but I was actually 934 00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:32.340 there going, oh, okay, I like that now. 12 years later. 935 00:43:32.460 --> 00:43:35.760 Well, how many years later, a century later? 936 00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:37.139 Nearly 13 years later. 937 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:37.800 Oh my god. 938 00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:40.199 I think, what do you think? 939 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:42.780 We've been going for 46 minutes. 940 00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:44.159 Is there? 941 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.500 In fact, I've used all my notes up. 942 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.500 I don't think I've got anything more to say. 943 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:55.139 I need to go back and find Zoe, you want to make her in state of 944 00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:55.679 decay now? 945 00:43:55.739 --> 00:43:58.619 Oh, you know, I was going to say something maybe we'll tag it. 946 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:04.800 If this was a Moffat episode, I wonder whether Chip going back and 947 00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.860 telling us she's beautiful before she hacks all her bits off in an 948 00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:11.579 effort to look beautiful, whether that would like avert her going 949 00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:14.940 down the sort of bitchy trampoline. path. 950 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:18.659 I think, you know, it doesn't, there's something about that 951 00:44:18.659 --> 00:44:23.880 character where she's super, super self-conscious about not being 952 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:29.400 beautiful and she's gone to these absurd lengths and it's, I think 953 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.179 it's telling that the thing that she gets told that kind of makes 954 00:44:33.179 --> 00:44:34.619 it all right is that she's beautiful. 955 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.539 I think that's nice, you know. 956 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.699 That is nicely done. 957 00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.760 Although it's still, it's still as shallow and thin. 958 00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:44.219 It's not... slender in the plot itself. 959 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:46.920 Really, we're rewarding narcissism by feeding it. 960 00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:49.739 I don't know that that's necessarily the cinosure, is it? 961 00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:50.699 She does die. 962 00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:54.780 Is that all you can do to cure narcissism? 963 00:44:54.780 --> 00:44:55.739 Possibly. 964 00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:58.500 An up note, isn't it? 965 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:01.019 All right. 966 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.420 Okay, let me do.