WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:41:28

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through

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Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast found Carrying in a cupboard when the

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werewolf arrives.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James I'm Liz.

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It's Doctor Who's 2nd annual celebrity historical this week, so

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we're off to Scotland to find out what Queen Victoria thinks of

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Rose and our new, new doctor.

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It's the 2nd episode of series 2, Tooth and Claw.

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So, this is another celebrity historical just about a year after

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our last one.

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How do we think this one compares to The Unquiet Dead?

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Um, I've enjoyed a lot more than I expected to.

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I rewatched it again for the 2nd time in the past couple of months

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because I was I'm doing a new who rewatch and I hadn't seen it for

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it must have been like almost 10 years and in my head, couldn't

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stand it.

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It's like the pinnacle of the smug 10th doctor and rose thing that

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I'm not a fan of.

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But I ended up, I watched it this time.

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I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, they're kind of smug.

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Their roses like, I can't stand the treating Victoria is like an

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amusement park, but actually I really enjoy this.

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I really, really like it.

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It's a great story, great characters.

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It's really exciting and it's in Scotland.

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And obviously, it's an incredible depiction of my beautiful

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country.

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I absolutely love that they got the ninja monks in there and our

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werewolves, which if there's one thing Doctor Who does, it's to

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pick Scotland beautifully.

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So this is Wales standing for Scotland, isn't it?

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But it is true that there aren't ninja monks.

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Am I right?

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Oh yeah, yeah.

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Go down the shops, go go pop along to your local loch with its

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miniature monster in it. out when we go hunting haggis, they're

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they're in labour, yeah.

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Brilliant I actually did want to talk about the monks because, you

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know, they do kind of play a role in the plot, but their big role

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is this sort of pre-credit sequence, which seems very much to have

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been designed to kind of beef up the next time trailer last week.

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Yeah, I think you could easily argue that that was, it's

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superfluous.

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It doesn't fit the plot, but I think it's one of those things that

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gosh, it's just so cool that I don't care in all honest state.

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If it was a story that I hated and I wanted to find things to

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nitpick at it, then I could totally understand if you didn't like

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the story having a go at it, but because I really enjoy it.

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I'm like, yes, let us have just some random jumping through air

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and slow-mo fighting against people stuff.

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That fine.

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That's cool.

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I think too, that it is the sort of thing that you want Doctor Who

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to do.

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You know, like if you're asking for sort of some kind of credible

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science fiction explanation for where they got the outfits from

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and, you know, where they've been training and are they Catholic

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or Protestant or, you know, like if you're trying, you know, if

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you're asking yourself those questions, you're really approaching

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the whole sort of thing the wrong way.

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I think I actually remember watching this.

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I was like, are they Catholic?

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It was bothering me because I was like, do we do we call prod to

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do because there are Protestant monasteries.

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Do we call the people there in charge, father?

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Is that something we do?

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And I didn't know.

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It's not really bothering me though.

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They do some Latin. which is sort of worth mentioning later on.

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They say the wolf is god and the wolf is brave over and over again

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when they sort of finally reveal who they are.

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So I'm going for Catholic, but I'd be prepared to be proved

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wrong.

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I would assume Catholic just because it's the kind of, what's the

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right word?

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I don't want to say trope.

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The stereotype.

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If you're dealing with spooky stuff, then they tend to be Catholic

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because they're like more qualified in it.

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Like if you, if you want an exorcism done, don't call a Protestant

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call a Catholic priest, that's, that's who's going to actually get

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rid of the ghost day for you.

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They actually believe in God.

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Well, no, no, I think they're just, you know, the problems are a

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bit more bloodless a little bit more, you know, yeah.

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Um, I also think that the monks are actually playing a role in

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distinguishing this historical from the previous historicals

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because I think, you know, Russell is quoted as saying, they

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needed a good kick up the arse.

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I think that was actually Julie Gardner.

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Right.

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Yeah, and so what you had, I think, with the Unquiet Dead, was

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like a very kind of, you know, BBC costume drama.

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There's a little bit of stuff outside, but we're basically in the

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studio for a lot of it and everyone's wearing lovely frocks and

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speaking very formally.

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And then, so we start this historical in a really vastly different

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way and directed a very different way as well.

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It's Eros Lynn, I think.

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And his shooting, you know, everything's speeded up.

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You've got sort of matrix bullet time and all of that sort of

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stuff happening.

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And I think the rest of the episode delivers on that promise in

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that there's heaps of sort of handheld and and, you know, the

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interiors are shot on location and stuff. locations.

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Really?

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That's amazing.

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Yeah, they use 7 different, like, stately homes, basically.

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I think the is the corridor a set?

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There's some, some, Yeah, a lot of the corridors were sets.

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I don't know about the staircase.

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No, well, the staircase is massive.

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It's definitely location.

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But a lot of the running up and down corridors that those are

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sets.

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Yeah, so instead of people sort of delivering kind of, you know

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sort of portentous lines in sort of proper BBC RP English at each

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other.

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You have people running up and down corridors and running up and

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downstairs and not just sort of the small length of corridor that

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you can fit into the studio, but until... studio, one at Mime

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Grove. that's right.

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It does very much feel like this is still, they're kind of in that

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early knew who mood of, we must distinguish ourselves from classic

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coup and showing that we have a little bit more money and can do

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it a little bit more epic.

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So when we have a chase scene here, like I said, it's huge.

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There's so much space.

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There's, it's so fast paced.

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You feel like they're really racing away from this terrifying

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thing.

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And the direction during that, I absolutely love because you

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barely see the wolf, but you've got it from its perspective, you've

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got the sound and you feel like it's chasing you, even though

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they're desperately trying to save money by not actually showing

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it up.

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It's a good example of how budgetary restrictions can actually

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improve something because that wolf costs so much money.

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And they actually had to bring a guest, CG artist onto the show

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who would specialise in animals because of the hair and the close

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up shots.

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And so the cost of that was so colossal, that they had to, they

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had to do the POV shots and lots of fast cuts and it actually

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improves it, that you, they didn't have the money.

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Yeah, no, I think it works so much better, especially because CGI

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no matter how good it is, is always going to age really badly

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really quickly.

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But I still think the wolf looks reasonably good here.

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I think it looks much better than the one in Harry Potter and the

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prisoner of Azkaban.

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And that had quite a lot more money for it.

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It might have been a bit earlier, but still, you know, where

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you're like, our Doctor Who Werewolf is better than one of the

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biggest movies of like 2 or 3 years earlier.

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I think I might have got that wrong.

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Um, that's still pretty impressive.

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It still looks good.

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It doesn't look like it's a real wolf, but it's pretty nifty.

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I mean, you know, like it's never going to.

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We knew at the time it was CG.

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Like, no, it was kind of fooled.

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I mean, the and you didn't think it was a man in a suit at any

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point, I don't think.

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It wasn't real werewolf.

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And it wasn't a werewolf.

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They're so difficult to cast, aren't they?

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But...

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Keep biting.

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I think too, it's trying to improve on the sort of the CG Slothine

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like last year, which I actually, I actually don't mind.

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I have a very, like, a soft spot for the CG, so then in World War

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3 just because they were in that very 1st trailer and it was kind

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of like, 0 my god, you know, we can do CG monsters now on Doctor

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Who.

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It was so exciting.

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But this with the hair and the teeth.

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And that wonderful sort of alien 3 close-up as well that it gets

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to do.

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Yeah, I think it's impressive.

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We'll put a link if we can find it in the show notes to that.

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I don't know if you've heard this, Liz, but there's an interview

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where David Tennant talks about the guy who's in the MoCap suit.

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No, no, I haven't.

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It's just, it's completely improper.

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But David Tennant says that he was distractingly distractingly

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well proportioned, perhaps intimidatingly well proportioned, I

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think, is how Tennant put it.

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And so people had typically looking at the ping-pong ball. you

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know, the on the on the ping-pong.

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The ping-pong ball on the stick on top of the on top of the helmet

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that was that was supposed to give them the eye line was nowhere

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near as compelling as the guy himself.

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So, yeah.

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So it's footage of that.

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There is, I think there is actually footage of the guy in the

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motion capture thing, some special feature somewhere.

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Well, it's not confidential.

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Oh yeah.

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Okay.

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You watch confidential in preparation for this.

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Yes.

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I've got to up your pay.

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He's not paying me.

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There's a theme, I think, that runs through this entire series.

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Um, And it really starts in this episode.

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Um, the whole arrogance and um, of hubris.

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Yeah, of the Doctrine Rose.

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How do we feel about the handling of that?

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I have a lot of negative feelings about it?

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I had a lot more negative feelings before I rewatched the season

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late last year and it's not as bad as what I remember.

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At the time, I was about it, which is a very accurate and

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meaningful Scottish word that you just heard there.

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But I think it's, and I think it's at its worst here, but seeing

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seeing the way it goes through.

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I'm just I feel less angry and frustrated at it and more just very

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embarrassed by it and I'm like, oh, no, no, stop, just stop.

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Which isn't the best feeling to feel about your Tardis crew and

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your heroes, but, you know, if the story around it's great, then

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I'm prepared to go with it.

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I think that my main problem with it is I never really feel like

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there's a proper payoff.

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I mean, yes, there's torture at the end.

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Yes, this ends up with them getting separated, but I never get the

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sense that they realise, oh, if we hadn't been quite so

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appallingly rude and laughing whilst people were dying around us

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when Victoria was there, maybe this wouldn't have happened, maybe

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maybe we should self-reflect a little bit.

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And um, I didn't, I don't get the feeling that ever happens, but

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she, you know, would be nice. don't need.

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I don't need a lot of self-reflection, just a little bit, just a

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little acknowledgement that, oh god, the walking away at the end

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of this adventure, and it's clearly deliberate.

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They're walking away, they're having a laugh about whorls.

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We cut back to the torchwood house, and we've got 2 widows here

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one of them, brand new widow, grieving, and uh, and the contrast

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is like, we're meant to think they're behaving like, I don't know

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if I can say asses.

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Is that okay?

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They're making like utter acids and we're we're absolutely meant

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to condemn that behaviour.

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But where's my gosh darned payoff by the end of the season?

245
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Where they're like, oh, maybe, you know, learn something from it.

246
00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:05.700
You know, originally I had thought that the reason was that

247
00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:10.259
Billy's departure had meant that, like that there'd been some kind

248
00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:14.639
of long-term plan that Russell didn't get to do, but it turns out

249
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.240
that I think it was during the shooting of this, that the scripts

250
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:24.720
for the two-parter at the end, like Army of Ghosts and Doomsday

251
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:26.460
like actually arrived.

252
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.480
So it's clear that this is working up to kind of a known end.

253
00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:32.879
And like it is a massive problem.

254
00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:38.159
Like, just seeing them suffer as payoff for this behaviour isn't

255
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.220
enough if they don't learn a valuable lesson.

256
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:46.559
And like even in series 3, the doctor hasn't learned a valuable

257
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:46.919
lesson.

258
00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.340
He just sort of sulking and upset because not sulking, that's his

259
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:50.639
girlfriend.

260
00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:54.779
Well, that's unfair, but he's upset at the loss of rose, but he

261
00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:56.340
hasn't learned anything as such.

262
00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:01.019
And I also think it's a bit complicated too, that even if he had

263
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:05.399
learnt something in episode 13, that still doesn't mean that we

264
00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:08.879
don't have a whole bunch of episodes where he's just being super

265
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.539
obnoxious and that kind of matters, I think.

266
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:16.379
Yeah, because we were still left this adventure.

267
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.700
If you imagine this is another sort of doctor era.

268
00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:22.620
It just, it wouldn't be like that.

269
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.279
It wouldn't be, and it, oh, it would make it better if you didn't

270
00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.820
leave it thinking, oh my god, my TARDIS team.

271
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:30.299
Why?

272
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:31.019
Why, why?

273
00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.200
If you could leave with them with them cheering or with them being

274
00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.480
a little bit, you know, say something to Laura.

275
00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:39.419
The poor woman's just lost her husband, a little bit of compassion

276
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:44.039
and empathy there instead of a final attempt to get Victoria to

277
00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:45.179
say she's not amused.

278
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:49.320
It's, it's, I want to be on side with the Tardis team.

279
00:14:49.379 --> 00:14:50.100
Is that wrong?

280
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.019
No, no, I think that's right.

281
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.399
I think, I think, so you talked about the, you know, trying to get

282
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.220
her to say we're not amused.

283
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.419
And it is this sort of thing, this tendency that we have to just

284
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:06.960
regard people from earlier historical periods is just sort of

285
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:07.740
being stupid.

286
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:13.440
And I also think it's kind of magnified slightly, you know, like I

287
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.360
think Russell brings religion back into Doctor Who.

288
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.460
Just an odd thing.

289
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.759
Russell T is as far as I know is an atheist, yes?

290
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:21.899
Yeah, I think so.

291
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.779
And I think he writes about religion wonderfully.

292
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.720
I think he does a great job in it, Joe. My experience, generally

293
00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:32.639
speaking, is I find atheist writers actually tend to write really

294
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:33.840
thoughtfully about religion.

295
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:35.340
I really appreciate it.

296
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.960
Yeah, it was certainly like Eve Miles character last year wasn't

297
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:44.279
patronised for being religious.

298
00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.279
And in fact, she gets to sort of slap Rose down a little bit.

299
00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:51.240
Not, you know, not very forcibly, but says you just think I'm an

300
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:52.919
idiot, but I'm not.

301
00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:53.820
I know this world.

302
00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:58.200
Um, You know, there was no religion in Doctor Who in the 70s and

303
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.379
80s unless you were a cultist, you know, if you worship Demnos or

304
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:03.299
Logar or something, you got to be religious.

305
00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:04.320
Yeah, that's right.

306
00:16:04.379 --> 00:16:07.740
But no actual proper religious people.

307
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:15.659
And I think that making her religious in a way that the doctor and

308
00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:19.980
rose aren't, and that sort of reflexive modern sort of arrogance

309
00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:24.779
towards that sort of really heartfelt religion, which is obviously

310
00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:28.320
not universal because plenty of people are religious.

311
00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:32.399
Like, I think that that sort of reinforces for me that sort of

312
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.019
arrogance, you know, the doctor and Rose know how the world works

313
00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:39.779
really, you know, because they're from space and they're from the

314
00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:40.620
future and stuff.

315
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.879
And so Queen Victoria is, you know, like a simple primitive to

316
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.600
them. despite being the queen.

317
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:49.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

318
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:51.659
It's so disrespectful.

319
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:54.000
Yeah, I completely agree.

320
00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:57.299
I'm not suggesting the bounds great because she's the queen.

321
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.600
It's like, just treat her as though she's not there for your

322
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.240
amusement, you know, as though she's a real person.

323
00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:04.440
That'd be good, you know?

324
00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:07.740
And you can tell that Victoria knows what's going on.

325
00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:13.319
Rose is so obvious and so sort of blunt and flat-footed in the way

326
00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:14.339
that she tries to do it.

327
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:18.660
And you can sense, I think, Queen Victoria getting more and more

328
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:19.799
irritated with it.

329
00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:24.960
Yeah, and um, it's, uh, yeah, it, oh, it just makes me cringe.

330
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.839
It's just one of those words where I have to look away for the

331
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:28.259
delic.

332
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.940
Oh no, don't stop.

333
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.119
Stop. when the doctor at the start is like, no, no, no, no, don't

334
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:33.599
don't do that.

335
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:35.279
And yet he lets this happen.

336
00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:39.839
It's no, I'd have preferred the very dodgy Scottish accent.

337
00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:40.680
That would have been fine.

338
00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:41.519
No cringing there.

339
00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:41.940
That's cool.

340
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:42.599
You want to do that?

341
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:43.859
I don't mind.

342
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.940
I have to say that David Tennant doing the Scottish accent, like

343
00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:52.859
doing his own accent is significantly better than his Cod

344
00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:53.400
Cockney.

345
00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.259
Yeah, Dick Van Dyke.

346
00:17:55.799 --> 00:18:00.180
It's this sort of thing where I'd kind of like David Tennant, but

347
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:03.420
had sort of started to find his performance a bit more mannered or

348
00:18:03.420 --> 00:18:05.640
a bit too mannered as it sort of went on.

349
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.819
And then suddenly seeing him in Broadchurch, just doing his normal

350
00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:12.539
voice and being sort of vastly, vastly sexier all of a sudden.

351
00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:17.279
And I think it's because he's not having to sort of...

352
00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:17.700
Yeah.

353
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.039
Yeah, I know, I completely agree.

354
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:22.259
I remember, this is actually, was the 1st thing that I saw David

355
00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:22.980
Tennant in.

356
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:27.359
And then when it was outside in another performance, it was, oh, I

357
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.720
think it was Blackpool I was watching with, yeah, because it

358
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:32.759
because it had, there was a nice jiff of him dancing in it or

359
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:32.940
something.

360
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.559
And I was like, whoa, whoa, this guy's actually really, really

361
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:37.799
good.

362
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.880
Um, and I went to see him when he was doing his hamlet and that

363
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.700
was like, wow, that was amazing.

364
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:46.440
It was fantastic, was it?

365
00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:47.220
So great.

366
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.299
Just, I just, I love the direction and stuff of that as well, the

367
00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:53.640
way they got the spookiness across, which just, whoa.

368
00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:57.599
But it's, I, I often feel like he's, he's really done a sort of

369
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.740
disservice in Doctor Who because it doesn't, it, I don't think

370
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.599
it's one of his best performances.

371
00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:06.059
I think his best performance in Doctor Who is in human nature and

372
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:06.599
family blood.

373
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:09.900
Um, because he's not paying the doctor.

374
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.220
Terrible.

375
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:12.660
I feel terrible saying that.

376
00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:17.759
There's there's that moment in, is it silence in the library where

377
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.440
um, uh, river reveals that she knows his name.

378
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:26.940
And then the mask drops and it becomes clear that all of this

379
00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:29.880
stuff, which seems like a mannered performance actually is a

380
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.099
mannered performance and the character.

381
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.700
Yeah, and if that if that had happened a little bit more often, I

382
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:39.180
would have been on board with it, like if it was clear.r.

383
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:40.980
That makes sense.

384
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.819
Because the doctor is someone who we learned last year has

385
00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:48.359
undergone this sort of frightful, horrific loss.

386
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:53.640
And I think Christopher Ecklson made it clear when he was being

387
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.579
jolly and putting a mask on.

388
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:03.420
But in this 1st David Tennant series, because he's so self

389
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:06.720
satisfied, you very rarely see that mask drop at all.

390
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:10.140
Yeah, there are some really, really nice moments though.

391
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.900
Now you've mentioned that I'm remembering a couple.

392
00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:15.720
There's really a nice one to fear her when he says, um, I was a

393
00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.359
father once and you're like, a little bit of heartbreak there

394
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.319
because it's, it's just, as you said, it just drops away the whole

395
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:26.579
mask thing and you just see this, this old grief in him and it's

396
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:27.299
like, whoa.

397
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.559
And um, I think there's some really good stuff in um, with Sarah

398
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.819
Jane as well. where he feels, it's like he allows himself to be

399
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:39.539
more vulnerable with her than he does around Rose, who he, it

400
00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:43.680
feels like for her, he has to put on a performance because kind

401
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:45.299
kind of because, because that's what she wants.

402
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:51.000
She wants this, this fun and and, oh, no, no, I'm sorry, I've got

403
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:51.900
half a thought here.

404
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.380
So it's not actually sentences because I'm just, I'm speaking as

405
00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:56.099
I'm thinking it.

406
00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:01.500
But yeah, no, it's, um, Yeah, yeah, I think what you're saying is

407
00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:01.920
absolutely right.

408
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:04.920
I mean, it's right from that 1st scene where they're together in

409
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.400
the TARDIS and they're playing injury on the blockheads and, you

410
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:11.640
know, the TARDIS lands and they fall over and they're just sort of

411
00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:12.660
laughing and things.

412
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.279
It just sort of sets this whole scene that for them, this is going

413
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:17.940
to be a game.

414
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.359
This is going to be funny all the way through and they're here

415
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.259
just for the laughs.

416
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.019
And maybe he's overcompensating.

417
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:28.680
Like, you know, they should have hung a lantern on that.

418
00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:29.640
Yeah, yeah.

419
00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.599
I think that's it.

420
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:33.779
We can't just sort of head cannonet into sort of some kind of

421
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:35.160
psychological realism.

422
00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:36.000
It just, yeah.

423
00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:37.200
Oh, I can.

424
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:41.039
That's how I get, that's how I get through the dodgy Doctor Who.

425
00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:44.640
Hey, this is how I get through the twin dilemma.

426
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:46.019
I can do it for that.

427
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.099
I can do it here.

428
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.579
But yeah, I appreciate that.

429
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.099
I mean, this is a lot of people's favourite season.

430
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.279
Um, which I completely legitimate.

431
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:57.299
That's absolutely fine.

432
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:03.119
And it does work for a lot of fans, which, you know, but then the

433
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:04.920
Time Monster doesn't for some reason.

434
00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:10.680
So I, I, I, I can see how if you feel, You, if Rose maybe is your

435
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.140
if Rose is your, like, identifying figure, if she's the one you're

436
00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:16.259
really connected with, then this is kind of what you want, you're

437
00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:20.220
in this little club of 2, the doctor adores you, he wants to

438
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:20.700
entertain you.

439
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.599
I get that, but that's that's not what I'm used to for my

440
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:25.259
companions.

441
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.099
I think it works a lot better if you haven't watched Doctor Who

442
00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:32.099
for your like childhood beforehand.

443
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:33.839
Yeah, yeah.

444
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.960
I think, you know, there's sort of technical reasons like series

445
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.039
one is clearly everyone sort of doing the Doctor Who story that

446
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.400
they've had bottled up for like the last 16 years or whatever.

447
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:48.660
You know, they've gone to the top shelf for their Doctor Who idea

448
00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:50.819
and they've been given the opportunity to do it.

449
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:52.319
If we're going to kill it.

450
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:55.019
We're going to make it our very best.

451
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:58.859
Yeah, but I think this one has the sort of difficult 2nd album

452
00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:02.460
feel to it because now what the hell do we do?

453
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.579
But it also has the advantage of knowing what worked and what

454
00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:07.980
didn't work last time as well.

455
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:13.140
I feel I'm being very harsh on it a little bit because I genuinely

456
00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:13.799
does enjoy it.

457
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:16.500
And actually this season, I really enjoy it right through the

458
00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:18.299
Cyberman one, which I've found a bit dull.

459
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:23.940
And, um, then God help me, I don't hate fear her and and uh, Satan

460
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:25.319
Pitt's Impossible Planet.

461
00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:28.079
I think, I think, is one of the best, possibly the best story of

462
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.279
Russell T. Davis era.

463
00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:31.740
Um, but I'm just, yeah, because I feel like I'm being really

464
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:32.039
harsh.

465
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:33.000
I'm being really mean.

466
00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:34.559
I still really like it.

467
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:39.839
Just really not my favourite bit of the 55 plus year.

468
00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:41.940
Yeah.

469
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:46.079
Sorry, I always feel very guilty when I'm quite negative of Birch

470
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:48.359
Akshahoo because it's like, ah, the thing I love, and I'm

471
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:49.799
criticising a part of my child.

472
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.200
That's fine, isn't it?

473
00:23:52.259 --> 00:23:53.640
It's absolutely fine.

474
00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.099
Well, cause any psychological damage.

475
00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:58.079
That's it.

476
00:23:58.140 --> 00:23:59.579
We all record podcasts.

477
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:00.900
Yeah, that's it.

478
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:14.579
So did you know that this story was a really late edition to the

479
00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:15.000
season?

480
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.859
I think so.

481
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:18.240
I did not.

482
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:23.819
Yeah, so initially, initially, because they didn't want to get

483
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:29.039
into a situation where if a script dropped out, they would be left

484
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:34.980
having to desperately write a replacement story, uh, Russell

485
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:39.900
actually commissioned a number of scripts on spec, uh, this was

486
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:40.500
one of them.

487
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.880
It was given to like a writer that never actually ended up writing

488
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:45.779
for Doctor Who.

489
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:48.720
I think Russell has never said who it was.

490
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:49.980
No, no.

491
00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:54.660
And they said, Queen Victoria, monks, werewolf.

492
00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:02.099
And the writer dropped the werewolf and the monks and rewrote the

493
00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:07.740
story as something about Queen Victoria getting a bug in her eye

494
00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:10.920
and The rest has lost her time.

495
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:15.960
But, um, and, and they, they, they did not like where that was

496
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.200
heading, so they dismissed him or, or her.

497
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:20.099
Who knows?

498
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:25.140
Um, and so they actually end up in the situation that we're trying

499
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:29.339
to avoid and Russell had to write the script. pretty much at the

500
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:29.700
last minute.

501
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.700
Seems he does quite well on the last minute thing.

502
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:33.599
Yes.

503
00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:34.140
Yeah.

504
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.799
Well, I think Boomtown was last minute after something dropped, and

505
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.619
we really enjoyed that last year, and I think...

506
00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:41.880
Yeah, no, that was a great one.

507
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:45.599
I think midnight, again, is some a quick replacement. last trip

508
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:45.900
yeah, yeah.

509
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.359
This was actually supposed to...

510
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:51.660
Well, this story initially was actually supposed to be episode

511
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:52.019
six.

512
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:53.339
Yeah.

513
00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:55.140
And they moved it up the running order.

514
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.099
In fact, I had heard that the runaway bride.

515
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:00.299
It was episode six.

516
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.299
Yeah, and then he decided, well, that could be a Christmas special

517
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:04.619
if we get special.

518
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:09.119
Yeah, when the BBC commissioned the 2nd Christmas special, he went

519
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:12.779
well, this is a great idea. going to develop that into the

520
00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:15.359
Christmas special because it works so much better as a Christmas

521
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:15.960
special.

522
00:26:16.019 --> 00:26:17.940
And you end up with Catherine Tate.

523
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:18.779
Yeah.

524
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:20.640
And then you get series 4.

525
00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:21.839
So it's all good.

526
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:28.440
But when they got the Christmas special, he replaced Runaway Bride

527
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:31.440
with this script that he wrote as a replacement for the other

528
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:31.680
one.

529
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:35.279
And then it got moved on the running order because there were so

530
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:36.359
many delays on the other episodes.

531
00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:40.019
I'd heard too that there was a toss-up whether this was going to

532
00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:41.640
be the 1st episode or the 2nd episode.

533
00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:43.859
New Earth had been so plagued with delays.

534
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.839
And it would have been possible.

535
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:46.740
I think they worked it out.

536
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:51.839
So, you know, the pre-credits thing at the beginning of New Earth

537
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:57.599
that that could have led to the credits and then opened with the

538
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:02.099
beginning of tooth and claw, like there was every possibility that

539
00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:03.000
it could have been first.

540
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:05.160
And I think once they had finished it, they were pretty happy with

541
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:06.480
how it was going.

542
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:08.339
And so that was a consideration.

543
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.660
Wasn't New Earth practically only finished like the day before

544
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:13.859
broadcast or something.

545
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.180
Really?

546
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:20.579
There are a number of stories in the new series where they were

547
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:21.599
down to the wire.

548
00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:25.559
They were literally finishing off the special effects in the dub

549
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:30.359
and finally it's as they were prepping it for broadcast.

550
00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:31.079
Wow.

551
00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:31.559
Yeah.

552
00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:33.299
It's like the trout era.

553
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:35.339
Film for live.

554
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:44.460
I think, you know, the result is probably that the story is fairly

555
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:45.000
simple.

556
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:50.759
You know, you think sometimes with the 45 minute episodes, they're

557
00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:54.480
sort of trying to cram, like a 4 parter in there.

558
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.460
And I think that's always a mistake.

559
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:58.380
Bass under siege.

560
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.579
I read about time earlier today and they compared it to Horror

561
00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:05.940
Fang Rock. that essentially you have, yeah.

562
00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:07.740
It does very much feel like a modern.

563
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:10.920
I know horrifying oxscreen Williams, but it's a Hinchcliffe

564
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:11.339
hangover.

565
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.640
It does feel like the modern Hingecliffe taking out everything

566
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:18.240
that annoys me by Hingecliffe and keeping everything I love and

567
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:19.680
then adding the doctor.

568
00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:20.880
Actually having women.

569
00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:25.920
How could you possibly think, no, that was what I was referring

570
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.220
to.

571
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:27.059
Good Lord.

572
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:31.440
But yeah, but it's definitely got that kind of that Gothic

573
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.240
atmosphere, which I really love.

574
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:38.099
And it's relatively straightforward, but that it makes it, it

575
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:40.440
feels like it completely fits in its time slot.

576
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:45.599
But drawing sort of some themes from it is kind of.

577
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:47.339
It's kind of a bit difficult.

578
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:52.859
There is, there is stuff about religion and and the fear of

579
00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:56.460
there's a lot of stuff from Victoria about knowing what's beyond

580
00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:02.519
and sort of her, both her fascination with it and her distrust of

581
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:02.700
it.

582
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:07.500
Um, in that she, she hates the doctor in Rose's world, but also

583
00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:11.519
she's, she's really introspiritualism at this time as, as she says

584
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.259
herself, which is, which is pretty interesting.

585
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.200
She's lost her husband.

586
00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:17.579
She's grieving.

587
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:21.299
She is facing her own mortality.

588
00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:27.000
I think she's wonderful in at the dinner, you know, when they're

589
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.160
talking about her husband, and the doctor says to her, you must

590
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.660
really miss him, and she's kind of a little bit blindsided by that

591
00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:40.680
as if, you know, it's not the sort of question the queen would get

592
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.940
asked, you know, a question about, about her feelings.

593
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:48.480
It's an intimate question from someone that doesn't know her.

594
00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:52.859
She, yeah, as a member of the royal family.

595
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:54.480
She wouldn't be asked such a direct question.

596
00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:55.019
Yeah.

597
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:58.680
And I think the doctor in that scene is much less obnoxious

598
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:03.779
because, you know, Billy Piper has the day off that day and she's

599
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:05.220
you know, Rose isn't there.

600
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.819
And so he's not sort of showing off in front of her.

601
00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:12.299
You know, he's a lot more likeable in that scene.

602
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:17.220
And she, you know, she expresses how much she misses him, but then

603
00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:19.799
kind of pulls herself up and then there's the twinkle in her eye

604
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:21.059
again.

605
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.160
I think it's a good performance.

606
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:24.299
We haven't even said who it is.

607
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:29.099
It's Pauline Collins, of course, who was Shirley Valentine.

608
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:36.299
Um, but more importantly for us, um, she's, um, She's Sam breaks

609
00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:37.140
in the faceless ones.

610
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.579
Oh, sometimes wonder what it would have been like if she'd

611
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:43.740
actually been brought on as companion.

612
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:44.759
Really?

613
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:45.299
Yeah.

614
00:30:45.299 --> 00:30:47.220
I love Victoria.

615
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.380
Yeah, she could she could come along with Victoria.

616
00:30:50.460 --> 00:30:54.420
Yes, her playing an altar version of herself.

617
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:58.019
That would be, sorry, her original character and Victoria at the

618
00:30:58.019 --> 00:30:58.259
same time.

619
00:30:58.319 --> 00:30:59.220
That would be brilliant.

620
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.700
Oh, I meant, I meant waterfield. as well.

621
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:06.900
It could be Victoria Waterfield and Queen Victoria.

622
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.819
Oh, no, I love her performance in this.

623
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:17.279
I think it's just, it's so good and it manages to, you get the, oh

624
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:23.700
the sort of standoffishness and the imperialism and you're like, oh

625
00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:27.240
yes, this is definitely woman who's messing up the world with her

626
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:28.259
ridiculous empire.

627
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.420
Although by this point it's more parallel its fault.

628
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.420
Um, but she's also, she's also a real person.

629
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.400
We're also invited to have compassion for her.

630
00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:41.759
She's very personable. and interesting and she, it's, it's a

631
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:45.839
nuanced performance with with layers, but it doesn't, I don't feel

632
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.539
that it whitewashes her, uh, a lot, her, uh, her negative impact

633
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:52.380
on history.

634
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.539
We don't forget the imperialism here.

635
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:56.400
It's mentioned several times the empire.

636
00:31:56.460 --> 00:32:00.000
And I don't think it's mentioned with any sort of reverence.

637
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:01.680
You could argue it's a neutral mention.

638
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:07.920
But um, I think given what she starts at the end, given um, the

639
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.759
sense of, I don't know, um, we must protect the British Empire

640
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:16.440
from this stuff, it's, uh, it, it is a, gentle, gentle

641
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:17.160
condemnation.

642
00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:20.940
Um, but then there's, there's a fascinating contrast in what she

643
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:23.940
says, because, well, at least this is what made me think of, is

644
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:26.940
when she says, um, now, now leave my world.

645
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.880
The 1st thing I remember thinking when I heard that was, was the

646
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.680
brigadier in battlefield, get off my world.

647
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:35.099
And they're both saying, I'm human.

648
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:39.660
The earth is my planet, a new alien person that is just not here

649
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:41.099
or should be here. leave.

650
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.279
And to say it to the doctor is like, huh, interesting.

651
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:48.839
It is sort of surprising that she has this terrible experience

652
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:52.740
with this sort of awful monster, but her takeaway is that the

653
00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:54.660
doctor and rose are the problem.

654
00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:00.660
And I actually think, and I don't know whether it's just because

655
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:02.579
of when we're watching it now.

656
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:08.160
But that thing about defending our borders, you know, now, I think

657
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:09.900
has a sort of peculiar resonance.

658
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.319
It's gained a lot more meaning.

659
00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:15.420
Especially the last few years.

660
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.119
And it is that thing where she has a world.

661
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:21.480
I mean, we saw it with Charles Dickens as well last year, that

662
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:27.480
that sort of idea that, um, intellectually, the Victorian world

663
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:32.700
kinds of sees itself as having understood everything that there is

664
00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:36.960
to understand, having gone through a whole heap of sort of

665
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:40.920
scientific revolutions and quote from a ghost light.

666
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:45.539
Well, it is, it's like ghost like, she's like lies in ghost

667
00:33:45.539 --> 00:33:46.079
light.

668
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:50.220
You know, she wants a comprehensible world and the doctor is this

669
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:54.599
sort of chaotic sort of force who comes in in disrupt.

670
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

671
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:59.220
And so this thing about sort of slamming down the borders.

672
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:02.279
And then later in the year when we actually see what Torchwood has

673
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:08.579
ended up being, and it's, you know, like a little outpost of the

674
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:13.980
British Empire that still uses kind of imperial measurements and

675
00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:14.880
things.

676
00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:20.699
And I think just now that seems sort of particularly resonant.

677
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:26.400
I was actually a bit shocked by how much I disliked Victoria in

678
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:27.000
that last scene.

679
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.719
She's a Victoria that would have voted for Brexit.

680
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:31.920
That's right.

681
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:34.139
Breakfast.

682
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:38.760
She has, she has, she actually has the empire that good old Brexit

683
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.699
here. imagine that somehow we still have.

684
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:43.260
She did have it.

685
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:46.199
So, um, yeah, she she wouldn't have.

686
00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:50.400
Yeah, she's she's got the most bland on the planet at that point.

687
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:54.420
Yeah, no, I don't think she's about to be likeable now, I've seen

688
00:34:54.420 --> 00:34:58.500
but I think it's kind, it's, I think it's meant to be, it's not

689
00:34:58.500 --> 00:34:59.099
flat out.

690
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:02.159
Oh my god, you evil baddie, because she has just watched these

691
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:06.300
people laugh and dance about immediately after people who are

692
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:09.840
giving their lives for her, and that she's known some of them a

693
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:12.780
long time, are ripped to pieces by a werewolf.

694
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.199
It's a bit of an odd reaction from her perspective, bit bit

695
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:16.679
creepy.

696
00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:18.900
I wouldn't want them around either.

697
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.440
Um, but I don't have an empire to exile them from.

698
00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:25.079
She does knight them.

699
00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:28.559
You know immediately before that, which I think is odd as well.

700
00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:32.639
Like there is this recognition that, you know, that the doctor and

701
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.500
her saved them, and that they did do a good thing, and she gives

702
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:41.400
them an honour, and it is a sort of massive surprise.

703
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:45.960
And, I mean, how did Rose and the doctor look after she suddenly

704
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.300
change his tone and starts exiling them?

705
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:51.239
Well, like the wind's being taken out of their sails.

706
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:55.260
She may have had like a good grasp of this is the way to really

707
00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:56.099
get through to them.

708
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.340
You know, I'm gonna, you did save my life.

709
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:00.239
I'm very grateful.

710
00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:02.400
I will express my gratitude in the royal way.

711
00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:07.559
But I'm also going to use this opportunity to let you know just

712
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:11.280
how annoyed I am. put you in your place.

713
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:16.800
And she does it, of course, by saying the thing that Rose has very

714
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.019
obviously been trying to get her to say.

715
00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:22.739
And it's absolutely clear that she knows all along what's going on

716
00:36:22.739 --> 00:36:23.099
there.

717
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:28.739
And so when she comes to do that and when Rose wins the bet and

718
00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:31.380
gets what she wants, there's just this shot of Rose looking

719
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:32.820
horrifically embarrassed.

720
00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:35.280
As she should.

721
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:52.619
So, did you know that, originally, whilst Russell was scripting

722
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:58.019
this story, he had actually planned to kill Victoria at the end of

723
00:36:58.019 --> 00:36:59.579
the episode?

724
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:03.780
And yes, and that was going to be the alteration to history that

725
00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:07.619
created the alternate universe that we end up in the Cybermen 2

726
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:12.360
parter and then revisit in Army of Ghosts and Doomsday.

727
00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:15.000
But then, what hamster real history?

728
00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:17.159
How do we get our universe?

729
00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:21.719
He decided it was too complex for the casual view.

730
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:23.280
Just drop it.

731
00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:28.019
I kind of like that because, you know, they created an alternate

732
00:37:28.019 --> 00:37:34.199
timeline, they don't end up living in it, but somehow, it sort of

733
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:35.400
spires off.

734
00:37:35.460 --> 00:37:39.420
Yeah, but you get the cybermen coming up out of that and invading

735
00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:41.460
our universe and killing lots of people.

736
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:45.659
Surely they would have had some reaction to going, oops, maybe we

737
00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:47.340
shouldn't have got Victoria killed.

738
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.139
This is bad.

739
00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:52.139
That would have been an amazing moment.

740
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:53.699
They were just like, is she dead?

741
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:54.360
Is she really dead?

742
00:37:54.420 --> 00:37:55.019
She coming back?

743
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.360
Oh my goodness, she's dead.

744
00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:01.079
It's a thing that Doctor Who has never done before, has it?

745
00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:03.420
Like it's got history wrong and it kind of does that sort of

746
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:04.260
fairly regularly.

747
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.300
And even here, the best new adventures.

748
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:11.460
But it always sort of tries to keep the shape of history kind of

749
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:11.940
happening.

750
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.300
And it's one of the problems, I think, with sort of historicals in

751
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:17.639
a way because...

752
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.400
You can't rewrite history and not one line, the doctor's kind of

753
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.760
stuck, you know, making sure things go along a sort of

754
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:24.840
predetermined path.

755
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:29.820
Um, whereas that would have been a big surprise.

756
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:33.360
But I think, like, one of the things that Russell has, I think, is

757
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:36.900
a real instinct for what, you know, what works for the audience

758
00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:40.139
and keeping a sort of broad audience appeal.

759
00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:42.179
I think you're right.

760
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:46.980
I think Russell more than any of the people that have come after

761
00:38:46.980 --> 00:38:56.880
him understand mainstream primetime drama and what will attract a

762
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.719
broad audience.

763
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:04.139
I loved most of the last 7 years of Doctor Who, but by the end of

764
00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:06.420
it, it had become made for the fans.

765
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:11.280
And I think they've course corrected quite a lot in the last

766
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:11.820
series.

767
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:17.820
But I still think that Russell's Doctor Who was the most

768
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:20.880
accessible era of the modern show.

769
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:25.320
Oh, I'd pick season 5 just because that's that's my favourite, but

770
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:29.099
also I think I think actually now the 11th hour is is the sort of

771
00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:31.320
one that I say that's what you should start with.

772
00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:34.860
And if you, there's, if there's nothing in that that you appeals

773
00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:39.900
to you at all, then this probably is not the show for you kind of

774
00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:40.139
thing.

775
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:42.360
I think I think that works better now as an entry point.

776
00:39:42.420 --> 00:39:45.480
I think season five, if we're going for the popular thing.

777
00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:48.059
I think that works very, very well in the same kind of way.

778
00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:53.639
But after that, you can definitely make that argument, even though

779
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:57.659
this is my favourite era of new and one of my favourite eras of

780
00:39:57.659 --> 00:39:57.960
who.

781
00:39:58.019 --> 00:40:02.460
So my inclination is to defend it against all criticisms and say

782
00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:05.579
that it's perfect in every way, even though that might be

783
00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:07.019
objectively incorrect.

784
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:13.860
No, look, I mean, I I, as a fan, I totally, I totally get where

785
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:14.760
you're coming from with that.

786
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:19.079
I really loved Stephen Moffat's take on Doctor Who.

787
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:22.199
No, no, I completely get who coming on the popularity thing

788
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.500
because this is a show that was just remembered as, you know, it

789
00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:28.739
was in our pop culture, but it was kind of a joke, you know

790
00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:31.500
terrible special effects, wobbly sets and vertic commas because it

791
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:32.099
happened like twice.

792
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.179
Um, and it became the most biggest show on television.

793
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.940
Everyone absolutely adored and it just got bigger and bigger and

794
00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:43.380
bigger under Russell's rain as far as I remember.

795
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.199
I'm really not good with like viewing figures and stuff.

796
00:40:46.260 --> 00:40:49.260
It's one of my latest favourite topics.

797
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.300
I think it does get huge.

798
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.000
I think Stolen Earth and Journeys end up sort of massive in terms

799
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:54.599
of ratings.

800
00:40:54.659 --> 00:40:58.679
Like it's, uh, it's near nearly as big as the show ever got.

801
00:40:58.739 --> 00:41:02.880
But, I mean, this is a story that Moffat would never have done

802
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.199
simply because it is really very, very linear and simple.

803
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:11.159
And, you know, I think it's telling that we're talking about lots

804
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:16.320
of other things apart from the story itself. because you know, once

805
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:20.219
you get past what it looks like, the shape of it and the main

806
00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:23.219
characters and the sort of conflict between them, there's not

807
00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:25.139
really that much to it, is there?

808
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.440
Yeah, I don't think it's, I don't think it's completely flat and

809
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:34.260
shallow and meaningless, but there's, um, it would not be entirely

810
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:37.320
incorrect, so there's not great deal of depth to it.

811
00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:40.800
It's a very something wrong with very plot driven, quite action

812
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.719
adventure, great atmosphere.

813
00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:46.320
Um, but it'd be very difficult to, you know, if you want, if you

814
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.039
want, if you were writing about about the themes to get a lot of

815
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.739
words out of it, you probably could if you really tried.

816
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.940
You could get a lot in about, I guess, popular perceptions of

817
00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:04.739
Scotland and of what this says about English writers looking at

818
00:42:04.739 --> 00:42:08.099
the country and what they think they can get away with or

819
00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:08.460
something.

820
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.820
So actually, actually, I really...

821
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:13.199
Maybe.

822
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.440
Why do we think it is in Scotland?

823
00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:20.039
Because Scotland's, because Scotland hasn't had any Doctor Who

824
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:20.940
stories hardly.

825
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:22.800
We need what we're said in Scotland.

826
00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:24.179
Oh, I'm not objecting.

827
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.219
I'm just wondering whether there was anything particular.

828
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:29.219
Is it just the prevalence of Shaolin monks that...

829
00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:32.400
I think I think it was because Queen Victoria, if you're setting

830
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:36.059
Elite in her range, she spent a heck of a lot of it in Scotland in

831
00:42:36.059 --> 00:42:37.019
Balmoral.

832
00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:43.619
And if you want to have werewolves, the feeling is more, I don't

833
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:46.320
know, you could, I guess you could sit it somewhere in England, in

834
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:50.400
the north, there's like Moors or that, but if it feels more of a

835
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:51.000
Scottish thing.

836
00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:54.900
And the last wolf in the country was killed in Scotland.

837
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:56.699
We had wolves the longest.

838
00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:00.420
They were still, they were still wiped out in the 18th century.

839
00:43:00.539 --> 00:43:03.719
I think the last rule was like... well extinct by this point.

840
00:43:03.780 --> 00:43:07.500
Yeah, I want to say 1743 but I might be well out with that.

841
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:10.199
I think I think that's about right.

842
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:11.039
It was somewhere.

843
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.920
I crossed that in my reading.

844
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:15.900
The story.

845
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.500
I think, yeah, it was mid mid 18th century.

846
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:21.239
That some serious research.

847
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:25.320
But yeah, I just it fits with the theme of it.

848
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:28.980
It fits with how you're feeling and, you know, Scotland's very far

849
00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:32.400
away and foreign, but not too foreign.

850
00:43:32.460 --> 00:43:34.500
They still almost speak English there.

851
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:38.820
So it's kind of thing.

852
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:42.420
Um, yeah, I, I, I'm just, I think it's because it's associated

853
00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:45.780
with Victoria and it's, it's more reasonable to think.

854
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.400
Maybe there is a wolf still out there because as Victoria says, you

855
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:51.000
know, there's story.

856
00:43:51.059 --> 00:43:52.500
She doesn't believe there's any wolves left.

857
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:54.480
But she's like, oh, stories scare the children.

858
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.760
And I bet Victorian's children are still like, oh, there's totally

859
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:57.480
rules out there.

860
00:43:57.539 --> 00:44:00.840
I've been suspicious about wolves in forests before, and I knew

861
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:04.860
perfectly well there weren't any out there, but maybe there were

862
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:09.179
and they're just really good at hiding for 200 years. less

863
00:44:09.179 --> 00:44:10.860
werewolf and more werewolf.

864
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.679
That's terrible. sorry.

865
00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:14.579
I'm sorry.

866
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:15.960
So good.

867
00:44:16.019 --> 00:44:17.159
Quality putting.

868
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:19.739
Sorry.

869
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:22.260
Do apologise. was quality.

870
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.300
For me, I guess the thing that stands out here is it's the 1st

871
00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:33.239
time that Doctor Who has been really sort of confident to just

872
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:39.420
base a whole story on essentially action, uh, that they find

873
00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:43.920
themselves in a position where they can do lots of proper running

874
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:50.639
around uh, in a sort of expansive location and set an episode

875
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:54.719
which largely consists of running away from the monster and then

876
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:57.780
sort of stopping and regr and then running away from the monster.

877
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:02.699
And I think that that's something that hasn't really properly been

878
00:45:02.699 --> 00:45:03.420
tried.

879
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:07.619
Um, simply because technically it wasn't a possibility.

880
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:09.059
Yeah.

881
00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:14.099
And generally, genuinely, you make them, you make them lumbering

882
00:45:14.099 --> 00:45:15.780
and slow menace, don't you?

883
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.019
Historically speaking, side men.

884
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:21.659
Ice warriors, Dalek.

885
00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:26.820
I could definitely see this being stretched out to like 6 parts in

886
00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:27.539
the 60s.

887
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.980
I could see how they do that.

888
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:33.059
It would not be as good, I don't think, even though I'm very much

889
00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:36.179
for give me all the padding that you like.

890
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:39.960
I don't mind, lovely 60s who, that's not padding, that's character

891
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:41.940
development sort of.

892
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:42.300
Yeah.

893
00:45:42.300 --> 00:45:45.300
It's meat on the bone.

894
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.300
Well, it varies from story to story, does it?

895
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:53.280
This one's in our fantasy world.

896
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:59.219
But yeah, this does have that that feel like they've gone.

897
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:03.539
Well, let's let's see how you like our base under stage with

898
00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:04.860
pacing in it.

899
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.079
And that is it, isn't it?

900
00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:09.780
It is a problem based under siege, too.

901
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:12.719
I mean, we haven't had one since, well, actually probably last

902
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:17.699
week, um, with New Earth, uh, which has a little base under siege

903
00:46:17.699 --> 00:46:20.519
moment where they all go into quarantine and sort of zombies start

904
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:21.599
long bringing around the place.

905
00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:25.800
But this is a little bit more of a trend base under siege and that

906
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:30.239
comparison with horror of fang rock complete with its, you know

907
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:35.039
mythical tales of a beast and and no one can get out and all of

908
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:35.760
that sort of thing.

909
00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:39.480
You know, that's that's a sort of classic base under siege.

910
00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:43.500
So, yeah, maybe that's they're doing a base under siege at speed.

911
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:45.179
On speed.

912
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:50.519
Have there even been any quite fast monsters in Noohoo by this

913
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:50.940
point?

914
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.139
I was thinking through them.

915
00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:56.460
Except for those slithine in those Sichi shirts.

916
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:00.599
Yes, that's a bit difficult.

917
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:03.659
Well, they don't come across as that limber when we're seeing the

918
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:04.380
costumes.

919
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:08.579
So it's like, are they actually that fast or was that a trick of

920
00:47:08.579 --> 00:47:12.599
the light because I'm trying to, it's difficult for me to, for me

921
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.239
to get the kind of like head cannon in there that the yes were

922
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.099
actually that fast because I don't believe it.

923
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:21.119
I think they were lumbering rubber suits.

924
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:21.840
I love them.

925
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:24.480
I love those stories, but...

926
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:25.019
No, me too.

927
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:26.340
Absolutely adore them.

928
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:26.820
Fantastic.

929
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:28.079
Hugely underrated.

930
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:28.619
So much fun.

931
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:30.239
Oh, wonderful.

932
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:33.900
Isn't that your favourite 2 part of the new series?

933
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:35.219
No, it's not.

934
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.599
I still like, um, I still like, um, Bad Wolf and um, Parting of

935
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:42.840
the Way is an enormous amount, but certainly that 2 parter is

936
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:43.199
wonderful.

937
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:46.380
It's just where the hell's it going to go next, the scale of it

938
00:47:46.380 --> 00:47:48.659
you know, it's so great.

939
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:52.619
The 1st watch of it, but I just, I remember, oh, it was so good.

940
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:56.760
Even just at the start, we were like, 0 my gosh, they're a year

941
00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:57.840
later and they've come back.

942
00:47:57.900 --> 00:48:00.360
This was so new, a novel, exciting.

943
00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:03.059
Oh, such a long time ago now.

944
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:03.659
That's terrible.

945
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:06.780
Yeah, and it's got plenty of Camille Kaduri.

946
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.679
Well, that's right.

947
00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:08.760
That's it.

948
00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:10.380
She's so great.

949
00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:35.639
Well, dear listener, we've defeated the werewolf, and so we're

950
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.480
heading back home to do some offsted style school inspections, and

951
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:41.340
maybe to meet up with an old friend.

952
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:44.159
We'll see you next week for school reunion.

953
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:48.360
In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com

954
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:51.840
flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE

955
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:53.699
Podcast on Twitter.

956
00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:57.780
You can also find us at our series 11 Flashcast Jody into terra

957
00:48:57.780 --> 00:49:01.920
which is at Jodyintaterra.com, and over on Bondfinger, we've

958
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:04.260
completely run out of Bond films, and we've started making

959
00:49:04.260 --> 00:49:06.719
commentaries on a variety of other spy movies.

960
00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:10.619
You can find that at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and

961
00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:13.860
Apple podcasts and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

962
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.380
Liz, where can people find you?

963
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:18.599
They can find me on Twitter?

964
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:25.260
At LM Miles and at my website with my very regularly updated block

965
00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:28.860
at ww.lmiles.com.

966
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:31.619
Also, if I'm allowed to do a quick plug.

967
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:37.920
Also, there's the 1st 12th doctor adventure from Big Finish is

968
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.519
coming out in February and it's a short story called the Astria

969
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:43.679
Conspiracy and it's written by me.

970
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.440
If you'd like to pre-order it.

971
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:49.019
I'd be ever so grateful. already had.

972
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:50.460
Thank you bless you.

973
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:53.880
Brilliant.

974
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.300
Well, look, thank you so much for agreeing to join us.

975
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.099
It's been fantastic talking to you today.

976
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:00.659
Thank you for having me on your lovely show.

977
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:02.039
It's been a delight.

978
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:03.360
Thank you.

979
00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:06.900
Well, until next time, may you remember to bring plenty of

980
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:10.619
mistletoe the next time you're invited to the royal garden party.

981
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:12.539
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

982
00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:13.320
Good night.

983
00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:14.579
Good morning.

984
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:21.179
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, James

985
00:50:21.179 --> 00:50:23.699
Selwood, and special guest star Elizabeth Miles.

986
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:26.820
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

987
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:27.599
Orberg.

988
00:50:27.659 --> 00:50:31.380
This episode, having a laugh about werewolves, was recorded on the

989
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:35.039
20th of January 2019 and released on the 24th of March.

990
00:50:38.099 --> 00:50:41.639
If anyone out there knows Josh the Werewolf, would you mind asking

991
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:42.300
him to get in touch?

992
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.679
No pressure or anything.

993
00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:44.699
Just for a drink.

994
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:45.780
We'll see how it goes from there.

995
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:53.159
Um, all right, I don't know.

996
00:50:53.219 --> 00:50:54.960
We should, I...

997
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:56.280
What do you think?

998
00:50:56.340 --> 00:50:56.940
Yes, please.

999
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:01.260
So, you know where the title comes from?

1000
00:51:01.380 --> 00:51:02.760
Tennyson.

1001
00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:03.179
Yes.

1002
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.119
Well, that was quick.

1003
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:08.940
Well, no, no, no.

1004
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.159
Like, so family, family history?

1005
00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:13.380
No.

1006
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:16.380
My...

1007
00:51:16.380 --> 00:51:23.099
Well, my father's great, great, great aunt married Lord Tennyson.

1008
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:23.760
Really?

1009
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:24.480
What?

1010
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.599
Maybe there aren't enough greats in there.

1011
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:29.159
God.

1012
00:51:29.219 --> 00:51:31.260
Yeah, no, Emily Selwood.

1013
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:32.820
Wow.

1014
00:51:33.539 --> 00:51:36.000
Do you have a Wikipedia page?

1015
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:37.559
Do I?

1016
00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:39.239
Yeah, I think I do.

1017
00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:39.900
You should.

1018
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:43.920
Is that, is that, okay.

1019
00:51:43.980 --> 00:51:44.400
Wow.

1020
00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:45.780
Yeah, that's amazing.

1021
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:52.559
Um, I don't have, I only discovered this in the last couple of

1022
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:52.800
years.

1023
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:53.579
Wow.

1024
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:54.659
Um, yeah.

1025
00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:56.639
It's very cool.

1026
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.199
It's kind of cool.

1027
00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:02.340
Not a direct descendant. or anything.

1028
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:04.079
I, you know, say, I mean...

1029
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:06.119
But you still feel that you could take a little bit of credit for

1030
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:06.539
this episode.

1031
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.460
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1032
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:09.000
Totally.

1033
00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:10.800
Repeat rights, I would think.

1034
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:15.239
So it is a strange choice for the title.

1035
00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:16.380
Do you think?

1036
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:19.980
Did we have Queen Victoria as a, that would have been just a sort

1037
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:21.239
of rough working time?

1038
00:52:21.300 --> 00:52:25.260
Well, yeah, so Queen Victoria, yeah, because it was the Queen

1039
00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:26.039
Victoria story.

1040
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:33.000
But I think, you know, choosing a line from a poem by her poet

1041
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:33.539
laureate.

1042
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.099
Yeah, yeah. is appropriate.

1043
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:35.519
Yep.

1044
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:40.860
It, it's, um, you know, it describes the monster.

1045
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:41.940
It does what it says on the tin.

1046
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:42.599
Yeah, yeah.

1047
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:43.139
Yeah.

1048
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:44.460
I guess that's fair enough.

1049
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:49.320
And keeping with the cane of, I don't want to say literalism

1050
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.380
that's extreme, but, you know, keeping going to street forwardness

1051
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:53.280
of the story.

1052
00:52:53.340 --> 00:52:57.179
You know, you don't want an out there title. to just accidentally

1053
00:52:57.179 --> 00:52:58.380
confuse you and think it might be deep.

1054
00:52:58.739 --> 00:53:01.739
It's not a Babylon 5 episode.

1055
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:02.400
That helps.