WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:43:29

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor

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Who podcast with the most wonderful and marvellous fans ever to

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drop out of the skies.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan. a hovercraft full of eels.

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And we are back with Patrick Trouton's 2nd season as the doctor

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and today we are covering 2 very, very special stories.

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Gentlemen, why are they so special?

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Well, was it, uh, you said that it was something like 18 months

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ago, we didn't have, uh, we didn't have full stories.

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We had 2 out of 12 episodes we're going to discuss today.

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We had Enemy of the World Part 3 and we had the Web of Fear Part

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one and then in an amazing, amazing turn of events, what are we

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saying?

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Nine more episodes turned up?

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That's right.

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It's inconveniently of consecutive stories and 2 of the most

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wanted and most loved anticipated.

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Yeah, but I mean, which may suggest that maybe we'll be hearing

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something at a possible maybe future.

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We'll have to sit through the other episodes of the celestial toy

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maker one day.

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We will re-record a podcast for that.

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It'll be 5 hours long and you'll all have to listen to it.

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I bet we might need the explicit tag for that one.

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We didn't have this for a long time, but we did have Ridge lie.

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And of course, one of these special stories is the enemy of the

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world.

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Hooray.

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Yeah, so we had episode three, which is a strange and sort of

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uncharacteristic episode.

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So it did give, I think, a rather wrong impression of what the

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story is.

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You know why they kept it, don't you?

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No, I was the only one in the archive.

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Pamela Ashtipper, there Shelby Fire thing.

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It's the 1st episode of Doctor to go from 405 to 625 line, which

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was on the mark as, you know, this is a much denser.

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We have this on film, don't we?

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So is the copy that we've discovered is on film, so we get a

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cleaner.

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Yes, looking forward to the Blu-ray commentary coming up.

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Well, it's not all, they'll never be fine, some of it.

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So it is...

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But yeah, the 625 line is a huge, huge jump and going along with

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selling 2 overseas networks just keeps keeping the format up to

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date.

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Like weirdly, they do it in the middle of a story.

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Yeah, it just when it came online.

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So that's why this one was kept because it was as a technical

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piece.

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It's a line marker.

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So it's a little bit like going from standard definition to higher

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definition.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And changed a lot of how the production team would approach the

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show.

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I know we've got a lot to say about the rediscovered episodes and

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what this show's about.

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So, I do hope that we come back to the Victorian Security Kitchen

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and what an amazing comedy series that would have made if Griffin

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the Shep, at his own.

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I mean, not sure spectacular.

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Basically, uh, this is the only story this season, maybe apart

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from fury, from the deep, where it's not the doctor being menaced

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by people in stupid costumes, in a stupid monster costumes.

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Dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang.

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Do you know, everyone says that this is a bond.

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Do they really?

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No, they say that as well.

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And it sort of be, certainly the 1st episode is massively like

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that.

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So you've got the doctor, Jamie and some woman.

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Stop it, Victoria.

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Terrible woman.

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Arrive in Australia of all places at Cape Arrod, which is on the

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great Australian bike in Western Australia.

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Oh okay.

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And it's the year 2018, which we didn't actually know until the

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episodes were returned.

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Yeah, because there was nothing in the script about that, and it

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just appears in a cutaway of the doctor going, oh, when was this

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helicopter registered?

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right Yeah, there's actually a little taste disk on behind a

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picture's head.

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There's something else as well.

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There's a newspaper or something from last year.

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Oh, it's, oh, we can't spoil it, but it's later on when they see

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an old newspaper and it says 2017.

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So certain things go a bit bonkers, yeah?

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Crazy.

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So it's at 50s in the future. in 2018. uh in Australia.

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It's a very, very, very grim day when they arrive in Australian

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miserable, miserable.

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When I lived in Western Australia, the weather was just like...

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This is very southern. up to two. up to 2 in the afternoon.

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Maybe that's why there are so many English expats in Perth.

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No, they are anyway.

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It's all South Africans and expat English folk. very, very

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similitudinous to me.

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But we're absolutely in the middle of nowhere.

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The doctor decides to throw all of his clothes off except for his

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hilarious sort of long Johns comedy long Johns.

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And he goes jumping about in the sea.

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It's really, it's spectacularly running a man.

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Everyone's doing a comedy turn to someone else, aren't they?

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You've got even the TARDIS is doing its comedy term and swap

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swapping its doors for this episode.

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Oh, really?

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There's always got to be that nerd moment about the TARDIS.

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Yeah, the doors swap around.

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And it's Victoria's dressed as Jenny.

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Victoria's doing drag actors, pandomime peer drag actors, Jamie.

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And doing it better, actually.

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The Tamashan and the whole thing.

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Yeah, we know we were in for a romp right from the 1st moment

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Toby.

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The other big 1st is, of course, that this is Barry Letts for the

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1st time.

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Helicopters.

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He's going to be talking to the helicopters. exactly right It's

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going to be huge.

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It's going to be huge in the early 70s.

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But he was an actor and a director before he became a producer.

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And so this is him directing.

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And as Richard says, helicopters, hover crafts, we get... a giant

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chase.

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It's like Planet of the Spiners episode thing.

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Only entertaining.

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And that is the big bomb moment.

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It a little bit like bond being chased by the helicopter at the

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end of from Russia with love.

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Is that?

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I'm brushing up for when we abandoned it.

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You're right because...

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Well, we've got so far we're still up to underwater menace as far

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as bond references going, Doctor Who, because the last bond to be

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released was, oh, no, we were just on, you only live twice.

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Thunderball had been out for a couple of years.

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They came out in 65.

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You only live twice his 67 release.

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This one is broadcast right at the beginning.

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So yeah, they...

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They've seen volcanos hollowed out and men in Nehru suits with

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comedy, middle European accents and ballpates.

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And we've had we've had it all.

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I love that.

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We've had them so much.

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That's Roald Dahl.

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It is.

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Roald Dahl writing the same.

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You're talking about repeated plot.

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You only live twice as the same script 3 minutes after itself, 3

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minutes on, 3 minutes on.

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It's like an endless ad for Japanese cigarettes, Japanese cars, a

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Japanese whiskey.

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I'm just going to go on the record and say, I think it's one of

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the worst bond films.

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For that really?

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I love it because of, well, it's Thunderbirds with racist

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accents.

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This Doctor Who story improves on every Bond film we've seen, I

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think this is probably the most intelligent group we've seen in

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Doctor Who in the history of the show. so far.

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And so, of course, it's Whitaker.

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And it will stay up being clever until very recently in the show's

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history.

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For me, this is it may not be my full-time favourite, but it's

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soundingly smart.

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One of the great things about it.

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And we have mentioned before, I think.

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What is it?

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What does it do?

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Have you seen this show?

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What is it?

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It's not Doctor Who, is it?

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Well, no.

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I mean it's a political thriller.

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And Doctor Who will do political thrillers, most notably in a

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couple of years time.

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I think ambassadors in there has the same kind of field.

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Yeah, and from a story by David Whittaker again.

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Yeah, he was clearly a politically minded man.

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So, and it's a sort of slightly crummy political thriller in the

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sense that it is sort of Bondian, but the big conceit is, of

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course, that the big Bond villain, Scaramanga, the salamander is

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played by Trouton.

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And so Trouton does a comedy accent, not really a comedy accent

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actually.

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It's actually pretty accurate.

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It's...

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This is just one of the misconceptions about this story.

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Because it was missing, everyone thought that trouton's

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performance with salamander would have to be comic and pantomime

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ish when actually he's quite a scary...

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And very charismatic, you know.

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Stroke, yeah.

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Yeah, like a bomb villain.

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Just like a bomb villain.

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You hate him, but actually you quite like him as well.

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He allows the comedy to be the 2nd and 3rd bananas around him.

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There's a lot of expat time lords in this one, aren't there, as

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the people supporting it.

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We've got Milton Johns.

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Yeah, this is the...

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George Patrick as the lovely Dennis.

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Yes.

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Dennis, yeah.

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And we've got, can I just mention the greatest girl who should

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have been the companion, kick self, Ferrari.

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Yeah, so this is a bizarre one too, because we have actually got 2

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women in it and that happens very rarely.

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So you have Astros Feria, who is Mary Peach, who is sort of

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auditioning to be sort of on a black medal.

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She was actually up for the dino rig replacement part on the

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Avengers.

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She was going to be Tara King.

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She, well, the name hadn't been formed yet, which I could believe

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Brendan, she was on one of only 5 actors in the final row, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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She was very, very cool.

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Mary John Porter, Mary P.

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Anyway.

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Yeah, she's got the sort of pair.

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She's types of beach girl, isn't it?

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zip up, zip up and let it go.

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In the wonderful book, who and me, by the way, Barry Letts, where

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he talks about Enemy of the World, he does say that the

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characterisation of the Outstrinders, by Mary Beach, was a, quote

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direct pinch from on a Black man and Diana Ring.

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Right, quote.

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And does it beautifully, and it's really accurately and suitably

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because that's what this show is about for so much this year.

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This story is about what's going on in the world of media right

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now.

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The doctor is sort of initially, is sort of a bit suspicious of

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her, and you know, like her goons have been after him sort of

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firing at them.

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And firing her bizarrely.

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They have men, but they do fire...

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It is more like a spider, they're scripted in this 1st episode

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isn't that good?

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But he really, he likes it.

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He flirts with her outrageously, actually.

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The doctor does, doesn't he?

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This is the 1st time we've seen something of the actor. himself

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into the role.

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What's also amazing about that is several minutes later when he's

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being asked to impersonate Salamander.

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He turns to Jamie and says, don't you think he's rather good

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looking?

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You know, it's it's the doctor actually being flirty in that

254
00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:05.820
modern way that modern doctors are flirty with their male

255
00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:07.200
companions as well.

256
00:11:07.259 --> 00:11:09.840
We know our flirtatious time wards are actually able to be with

257
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.480
all their internal whipping wobby bits as well.

258
00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:15.539
Yes, well, as we're recording this, still, listener, death in

259
00:11:15.539 --> 00:11:18.240
heaven has actually gone out today. and Nathan and I have seen it

260
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:19.080
but Richard has...

261
00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:20.159
No.

262
00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:21.779
So, we're playing...

263
00:11:21.779 --> 00:11:23.700
You know they start ringing...

264
00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:25.679
Yeah, he knows who miss he is, but he doesn't know what happens

265
00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:25.980
next.

266
00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:26.700
No.

267
00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:30.299
I think she turns into Julie Andrews and flies away with talking

268
00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:30.960
umbrella.

269
00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:32.039
Ooh, it's fun, wait.

270
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:38.039
So, um, so that's that's the one woman is Astrid Ferrier.

271
00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:41.580
And then bizarrely, someone with almost an identical name, Fariah

272
00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:44.039
who is beautiful Carmen Monroe.

273
00:11:44.100 --> 00:11:44.759
She's wonderful.

274
00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:45.720
She's my favourite.

275
00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:48.000
I was going to say she's my favourite girl in Doctor Who so far.

276
00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.039
So she's love her.

277
00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:51.480
So straight, so real.

278
00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:53.879
So are we saying meta now instead of trips?

279
00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:54.779
So there.

280
00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:55.980
Isn't she?

281
00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:56.399
Really?

282
00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:57.899
She doesn't come from Doctor Who at all.

283
00:11:57.960 --> 00:11:58.799
She comes with a big screen.

284
00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.179
She's salamander's food taster and she has some history with him.

285
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:04.860
She hates him, but she works with him.

286
00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:08.639
Presumably he's got something on her because we see salamander in

287
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:12.360
later episodes, you know, doing blackmail and all of that sort of

288
00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:12.659
thing.

289
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.580
But she really dislikes him and she's just strong and fabulous.

290
00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.840
It a great performance and she's a black woman and, you know

291
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.379
that's a real rarity. 60s Doctor Who is strong and challenging

292
00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:26.159
educated like that.

293
00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:26.639
Yeah.

294
00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:30.659
She's the 1st black character played by a black actor who actually

295
00:12:30.659 --> 00:12:31.500
has a character.

296
00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:33.360
She's not a mute strong man.

297
00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:34.620
Not a mute, strong man.

298
00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.700
And even Jamaica, who I cited earlier, as being a positive step in

299
00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:41.220
terms of the representation of normal white races.

300
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.500
Even he didn't have much character.

301
00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:44.580
He was more of a function.

302
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:46.799
Now, Korea, this is 50 years in the future.

303
00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:49.259
So no one ever mentions her race inside the story.

304
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:53.759
It's never treated as an issue, but in a way, that makes it even

305
00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.039
more important for the 19th experience.

306
00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:00.419
We had the Chicago riots in the US just a year before fires, deaths

307
00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:02.820
the whole thing, the police getting turned upon.

308
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:03.960
This was a major thing.

309
00:13:04.019 --> 00:13:06.960
Britain was dealing with the influx of immigrants from the former

310
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:07.500
colonies.

311
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.399
Star Trek hadn't hit British TV screens, if you mentioned before

312
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:15.840
Jerry Anderson hadn't cast UFO live action for another 2 years

313
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.259
where you have black British actors in major, important and

314
00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:23.879
beautifully played roles, Dolores Mantes, who've been up for this

315
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.120
part as well, another Jamaican brilliant British actress.

316
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.200
Please keep going, this is I love this story.

317
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.039
Not for, and not for the obvious reasons that we, that we might

318
00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.139
actually say, because of the bond film that's clear in the sweet

319
00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:38.340
units, that we need a script.

320
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.399
The actors all nail innocent her performance.

321
00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:43.919
No one, no one's really lazy in this form.

322
00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:45.659
I mean, there are great people.

323
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.559
So the Cliffhanger to episode one has the sort of world-head chief

324
00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:56.879
security guy who is Reuben from Horror Fang Rock. and his name's

325
00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:57.299
Bruce.

326
00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:58.919
Come out old one.

327
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.279
And he, he had common Douglas.

328
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:03.720
Yeah. and isn't he good?

329
00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:05.700
I hadn't realised it was really good. really good.

330
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.000
And he's got a lovely gruffness and true British, you know

331
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.019
military thing, but you get the sensibility and the truth behind

332
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:13.740
the characters.

333
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:15.720
It's like Kreason last...

334
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.779
He talked about last episode of New Bong or Snowman, who gets an

335
00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:22.080
arc where initially you think he's sort of rigid and inflexible

336
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.620
and security-minded and paranoid and that kind of thing.

337
00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:29.639
And then you discover he has a real sort of sense of honour and

338
00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:30.720
loyalty and things.

339
00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:34.320
And Bruce, like it's slightly crumbly done, but Bruce is

340
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:38.399
eventually persuaded that it's worth investigating whether

341
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:39.720
Salamand is a bad guy.

342
00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:42.659
Yeah, but the cliffhanger logically and cleanly.

343
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.200
And people always say this about the cliffhangers in this story

344
00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.559
where it's very rarely, you know, if someone's tied to a volcano

345
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:54.539
or, you know, you have to answer an ice warriors question or we'll

346
00:14:54.539 --> 00:14:56.039
suck all the air out of the airlock.

347
00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:57.720
You know, they're very rarely stupid.

348
00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:02.460
Their characters discover something or the game changes slightly.

349
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:08.940
So the very 1st one of these is, um, Bruce comes in and Giles Kent

350
00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:13.200
kind of forces Giles Kent, who is sort of a bond character.

351
00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:15.120
He's like the previous set of security.

352
00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:20.879
And he's, he's, you know, wants to get the doctor to recruit the

353
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.559
doctor and just sort of finding salamander.

354
00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:26.940
He sends the doctor off, makes him dress a salamander, and then he

355
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:30.299
comes, the doctor comes in, pretending to be salamander, doing a

356
00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:34.919
crapper version of the accent, you know, when transplating

357
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:35.759
salamander.

358
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.519
In a turtle Mexican.

359
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:42.360
And, and, you know, the cliffhanger is wheel brews people, you

360
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.200
know, by this.

361
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:45.480
And there are lots of cliphangers like that.

362
00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:49.860
There's that cliffhanger where salamander begins to suspect that

363
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:51.059
there is an impersonator.

364
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.740
And that's with Bruce as well.

365
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.440
You know, Salamander and Bruce are discussing, you know, someone

366
00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:00.000
who looks like you, you know, that's terrifically good to, you

367
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.899
know, the cliffhanger where Mary Peach discovers Swan from the

368
00:16:03.899 --> 00:16:05.879
underground base, more of which in a minute.

369
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:09.600
Um, you know, Yeah, they're conceptual cliffhanger.

370
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.720
Rather than, as you say, someone tied to the railroad track.

371
00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:14.460
So why are these COVI so interesting?

372
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.220
What's happening in the story that's making all of these people

373
00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:17.940
come together?

374
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.100
Because it's kind of a complex plot.

375
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.100
But it's, I mean, I like a bot.

376
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.220
They blow all their money on the 1st episode, so everything else

377
00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:27.659
is kind of like indoors.

378
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:29.940
You know, you don't get any big action sequences.

379
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.980
So it's not quite like bond in that sense.

380
00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.220
It does just... crazy thing to have done. isn't it?

381
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:36.779
Well, but they've done it before.

382
00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:39.480
Certainly, you know, Dalek invasion of Earth blows a whole heap of

383
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:42.960
money in its 1st episode and then, you know, episode 2 is just in

384
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:43.740
various studios.

385
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:45.179
So there's a precedent.

386
00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.379
But, You know, basically it's a political thriller, salamander is

387
00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:51.059
trying to gain control of the world.

388
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.139
He comes to the world as a kind of um, Saviour, he's developed

389
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:59.039
some way of making food, uh, like making food crops and that sort

390
00:16:59.039 --> 00:16:59.399
of thing.

391
00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:02.460
But we discovered that he's using treachery and blackmail and all

392
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:06.480
sorts of things to kind of get his flunkeys into sort of positions

393
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:07.079
of power.

394
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.619
And so like Jamie and Victoria go to Hungary while the doctor

395
00:17:10.619 --> 00:17:11.579
stays in Australia.

396
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.160
The doctors in Australia the entire, the entire story.

397
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.660
And they got hungry to investigate him and he's blackmailing the

398
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:23.339
central European zone guy or something like that. and et cetera.

399
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.859
Yeah, trying to get him to replace Denesh, who is George Pro

400
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:26.339
after.

401
00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.519
And so it's all this sort of fun intrigue and things.

402
00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:30.960
You know, people are betraying people.

403
00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:34.259
He's a bond villain because he's really causing earthquakes and

404
00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:36.480
stuff like that in order to get what he wants.

405
00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:39.119
Um, That's sort of basically the thing.

406
00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:42.480
And the thriller thing is fun and it works and that some doctor

407
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.180
who will sort of turn to, you know, in later years.

408
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:46.019
Yeah.

409
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.700
You know, it's funny you mentioned that it sort of blew its money

410
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:53.759
in the 1st episode because Barry Letts really wanted that.

411
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:55.500
The original script was far more complex.

412
00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:59.940
He says in his autobiography that it called for a crowded beach

413
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.940
scene, and he actually picked up a pennant crossover, were crowded

414
00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:04.500
and wrote the word deserves, said.

415
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.559
Now, the thing is, though, the doctor was going to be humped

416
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:09.359
through the amusement arcades and what happened.

417
00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:10.200
So that was gone.

418
00:18:10.259 --> 00:18:11.519
So he had to figure out something else.

419
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:12.539
So he got the helicopter.

420
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.180
And it's like, yes, the helicopter will be more expensive, but

421
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.319
we'll get more bang for our buck.

422
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:19.319
And apparently the BBC said to him, well, that's okay, but you've

423
00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:21.839
got to figure out where the money's coming from somewhere else.

424
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.559
So reworking the script because apparently the scripts were a bit

425
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.440
hit on the ground. reworking the script they came up with.

426
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.579
Episode three, which for the longest time was the episode that

427
00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:34.140
existed, and I'll quote here.

428
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.680
The stuff in the kitchen, for instance, goes on far too long.

429
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.039
It's full of padding and padding shows up at its dullest and a

430
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:41.640
half hour show.

431
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:45.539
And isn't it ridiculous that the VIV prisoner, Danish, played by

432
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:48.359
George Bravta, is held in a corridor rather than in a room.

433
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.960
The whole episode, number 3, is lacking intention.

434
00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:55.440
Nobody is in any real danger except poor Denesh, and we don't know

435
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.000
him well enough to care very much.

436
00:18:57.059 --> 00:18:59.880
It's fine when you see it in isolation, but it actually works a

437
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:00.960
great relief in the story.

438
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.559
And it's really belittling to a man of his problems to put him in

439
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:05.220
a corridor.

440
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.279
It's actually quite serious when you see it.

441
00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:11.460
Well, what none of us has mentioned, is Griffin the Chef.

442
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:13.019
Oh, no, no.

443
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:13.680
Yeah, yeah.

444
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:17.279
Who is from Walloo, and perhaps he should never have left

445
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.299
Woolamaloo.

446
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.240
He says, and he's really funny.

447
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:22.680
So it's good.

448
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:24.480
It's not true that it's padding.

449
00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:26.460
It is kind of character stuff.

450
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:27.480
Yeah, absolutely.

451
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.779
And it's a variant of light relief after all the other stuff

452
00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:32.700
that's going on, which just increases the tension.

453
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:33.599
Yeah, yeah.

454
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:39.720
Whitaker's famous for kind of delaying, you know, where the Daleks

455
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.420
are coming, you know, sometime soon, you know, all of that sort of

456
00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:45.720
thing, we're used to him doing this delaying tactics.

457
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:50.640
And here, you know, I presume that what we all want is the face

458
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.380
off between the doctor and salamander.

459
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:53.160
Do you know what I mean?

460
00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:54.420
And that's what we're waiting for.

461
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.779
And the doctor's actually weirdly not doing anything.

462
00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:02.640
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's such, it's a contrivance, so they don't

463
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.299
have to do split screen is what I feel about it because the doctor

464
00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:09.240
sits there for about 4 episodes going, no, I refuse to get

465
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.339
involved unless you give me some actual proof that this man is

466
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:11.700
horrible.

467
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:12.539
It's like, when?

468
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:14.819
When do you ever wait for a fruit?

469
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.619
Like, you know, 2 months ago, it's like, I suspect that the

470
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:21.059
sidemen might still be alive.

471
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.579
I'm going to open up these tombs so 5 people die.

472
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.460
This man is causing famines and killing people.

473
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:28.380
Well, I, until I see a body?

474
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.720
No, I'm not doing anything, but so strange.

475
00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:33.599
Fortunately, though, while the doctor's sitting in that lovely

476
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.359
caravan, admiring...

477
00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:42.000
You do, you do get playing, playing salamander, and he's

478
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.299
compelling, and you actually kind of forget that, that he's a

479
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:46.740
doctor, everything is extraordinary.

480
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:47.400
It's very true.

481
00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:49.980
I was impressed by the strength of this performance of

482
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:50.700
salamander.

483
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:55.799
I kind of wish in a way that they'd done a little bit of the

484
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.279
massacre with it and actually just had salamander and had the

485
00:20:59.279 --> 00:20:59.940
doctor missing.

486
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.059
You know, salamander could have even kidnapped the doctor and that

487
00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:05.099
way you don't have to constantly be coming back to the doctor

488
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:08.279
resetting every 25 minutes to say, no, I must have more proof.

489
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:10.799
Yes, okay, you've showed me the blood stained knife, but I must

490
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:11.579
have more proof.

491
00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.119
I think that would have been some more interesting and far more

492
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.779
dramatic if Salamander had discovered the doctor earlier and kind

493
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.119
of went, you know, you could cause damage to me, so I'm going to

494
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:22.799
kidnap you, so you can't pretend to be me.

495
00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:28.859
Yeah, except except you do want to delay that confrontation, you

496
00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:31.980
know, and when the confrontation comes, it is massive and epic and

497
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:33.180
we'll talk more about it.

498
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.140
But should we move on to the really, truly weird twist?

499
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:38.400
Oh, God.

500
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.359
So salamander is Patrick Trouton is playing the doctor and he's

501
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.000
also playing salamander, but salamander is playing another

502
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:50.339
character as well, where he is a survivor of a nuclear war.

503
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:56.460
And he has a group of like terribly wet English people dressed in

504
00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:59.279
leader clan castles. 11 yellow jumps.

505
00:21:59.339 --> 00:22:00.839
Yeah, really.

506
00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:02.940
He's Rick from The Walking Dead.

507
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:05.700
I don't know anything about what that even means.

508
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.460
He, young person.

509
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.559
I'm scared of zombies.

510
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:15.180
He goes down this incredible lift shaft and they have great

511
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:16.799
miniatures to the lift.

512
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:17.880
You know, that works really well.

513
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.720
And he finds himself in his face and it turns out that they all

514
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:25.740
know him as salamander who goes up and scavenges food for them and

515
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:30.480
that the whole place is sort of full of radiation and they can't

516
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:30.900
go out.

517
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.400
There's been a giant nuclear war.

518
00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:34.380
Take a drink, David Wishing.

519
00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:41.039
And so they're busy creating the earthquakes and volcanos to

520
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.359
destroy the evil kind of mutant survivors of the human race.

521
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.180
And it's just completely strange and unexpected.

522
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.920
The English people.

523
00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:55.200
And remember we've been in Australia and Hungary.

524
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:57.720
We haven't been to England, and these people are presumably

525
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:59.339
underground in Australia, you know.

526
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:01.500
We haven't been to England at all.

527
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.660
So these are sort of very strange because people and you've got

528
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:05.880
Colin and Mary, do you know what I mean?

529
00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:09.420
with like these incredibly kind of Colin is amazing.

530
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.660
Colin does a lot of staring wistfully into the middle distance

531
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:15.660
acting, talking about how lovely it would be to see the surface.

532
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:17.819
It's like Logans are on 20 years old.

533
00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:20.759
That's all about the talent of Michael York.

534
00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:26.160
And then, and then, you know, um, is Salamander's found out by one

535
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.839
of the people, Swan, who, um, who discovers in one of the food

536
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:35.880
packages he's brought down at this, that there's a, a, a newspaper

537
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:40.079
with a story of a liner that's sunk, a holiday liner, and

538
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:43.019
Salamander explains to him, not everyone's dead.

539
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.799
They're just all evil, scary mutants who have holiday lives.

540
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.680
And the sword just called you guys.

541
00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:51.420
Oh, right, okay, yeah.

542
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.759
So we've just seen this in the Avengers episode The Living Dead

543
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:57.599
haven't we, Brandon?

544
00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:58.500
Yes, that's very true.

545
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.099
That's very true.

546
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.480
But without the mutants.

547
00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:04.200
Yeah, without the scary zombies, 6 people actually want to be

548
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:04.799
underground.

549
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:06.359
With Julian Bluff.

550
00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.079
Oh, let by.

551
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.259
Really?

552
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:12.660
Doctor Who, star and future Doctor Who villain, Julian Glover.

553
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:12.960
Yeah.

554
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.880
It's a good one, yeah.

555
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:17.039
So it is, it's strange.

556
00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:21.839
It's like a complete turnabout and it has him going into a

557
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.220
completely different kind of story.

558
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:27.299
So, and then, you know, everyone sort of defeats and things, but

559
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:31.200
it really has been like a very, very strange fun runaround that

560
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.380
goes to places and has a story structure completely different from

561
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:35.640
anything else in this season.

562
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:39.539
And it's just a massive relief from furry, scaling or metallic

563
00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:43.079
people attacking people on a base this month again.

564
00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:44.400
I don't know.

565
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:45.720
There could have been this on Tara.

566
00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:47.640
Yes, if only they'd beat us on Tara.

567
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:49.259
A terrelepts or perhaps.

568
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.460
Oh, it's much more than that because it's Whitaker.

569
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:54.839
We've got all these other layers.

570
00:24:54.900 --> 00:25:00.000
You know, Salamander is a, um, a villain, not just the bond

571
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.539
thing's obvious, but he's an imperial senator trying to take over

572
00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:04.920
the empire, isn't it?

573
00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:09.420
To me, he's the threat to Rome of and the Senate of a new empire

574
00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:11.759
is Augustus, isn't he?

575
00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:13.079
rising again.

576
00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:17.880
He's depicted as in the United Nations. isn't he?

577
00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:21.059
There's even a shot and have I am I dreaming this?

578
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.339
There's a shot at the United Nations building.

579
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:26.579
But it's like the zones, like the government zones and stuff and

580
00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:28.079
he's all over.

581
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:29.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

582
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:30.000
So I think you're right.

583
00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:33.480
It is that he's like, um, he's Senator Palpatine.

584
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:34.799
That's really my background.

585
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:37.799
He's Senator Palpatine, and they're getting to become the emperor

586
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:43.019
and take over from the benign Democratic government of the world's

587
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:43.859
own.

588
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:47.759
Yeah, except for the fact he's actually got some decent dialogue.

589
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.099
I'm like Senator Palpatine.

590
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.160
He's the only good thing about that entire prequel.

591
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:55.380
Oh, he's brilliant, but...

592
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.759
Yeah, it is.

593
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:57.779
But he's really...

594
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.660
And this, and this guy, and this, of course, because it's

595
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:04.740
Whittaker, and he's so interested in the history of British magic

596
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:06.779
and mediaeval folklore.

597
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:10.079
Salamandra was the creature that lived and was born afire and

598
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.059
could destroy and burn with its gaze.

599
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.519
So hence the volcano.

600
00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:17.880
Mm, mm, there's always layers with a little script.

601
00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:18.240
Yeah.

602
00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:21.779
I am Salamander, Stormborn, Father.

603
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:22.500
That's the one.

604
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.440
Is that another pop culture reference, I think, yeah.

605
00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:31.859
I was actually thinking with salamander's plans and with the

606
00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:32.759
underground culture.

607
00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:36.720
It almost feels like the production team have looked at the

608
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:39.480
underwater menace and given David Whittaker the same ingredients.

609
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:43.440
We have this underground culture being led by a mad despot who

610
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.140
actually wants to destroy the world, but unlike Zarov, who just

611
00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:48.299
wants to destroy the world for the scientific achievement.

612
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.119
Salamander wants to rebuild it along his own lines.

613
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:55.319
And so he has already gone into the business of food production

614
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.480
which is something Zarov was concerned with as well.

615
00:26:57.539 --> 00:26:58.140
Oh, yeah.

616
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.799
It's like he's taken a similar plan to Zarov.

617
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:04.619
But he would know about, but he's taken a similar plan to Zara, but

618
00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:06.720
thought it through to its logical conclusion.

619
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:12.359
It's much easier. to save a bunch of people and then say, I am

620
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:14.579
your leader, and they'll go, yeah, okay, you're our leader, then

621
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:15.960
try and conquer a bunch of people.

622
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:19.200
And say I am your leader. very clever, isn't it?

623
00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:20.519
Yeah, it's very clever.

624
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:22.619
And you know, it's not explicitly spelled out that way.

625
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.599
But when you think about it, it's very cool.

626
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:28.920
It was this Innis Lloyd's Christmas present, as it's his swan song

627
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:33.359
story, to Paddy, because Patrick had been saying for so long, if

628
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.720
I'm really getting ground down by this and the shooting schedule

629
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.480
the fact that even the audience is starting to get bored by the

630
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:40.440
repetition of the plots.

631
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:44.220
So they've given him, you know, it was talked about, was it not

632
00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:47.640
the beginning that this doctor would be based on Chaplin when they

633
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:48.960
looked at other archetypes.

634
00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:50.880
This is the great dictator, isn't it?

635
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:54.480
We've got Adenoid Hinkler playing up against the Wiley Tramp.

636
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:58.259
Adnoid Hinkler being his character that throws the, the, you know

637
00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:00.839
and Mill books, Brooks Spooks, that beautifully throws around the

638
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:01.980
globe of the world.

639
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is, this is up there with those big similar

640
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:07.559
ideas.

641
00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:11.099
And honestly, it is because I know we all sound a bit loving when

642
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:11.579
we say it.

643
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:16.380
We can cut it out if you like, but Pat is really, really good in

644
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:16.619
this.

645
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.000
He really is that level.

646
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:19.920
He's amazingly good in it.

647
00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:22.799
And this was one in particular when Rob and I were making our way

648
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:23.339
through and watching.

649
00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:26.339
It's one that neither of us really enjoyed.

650
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:28.680
You know, I think we both have it about 4 of them.

651
00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:29.220
Oh, overall.

652
00:28:29.819 --> 00:28:31.019
This is before it was recovered.

653
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:32.039
Oh, okay.

654
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:33.000
Yeah, it is.

655
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.420
So you was watching it on watching the reconscious.

656
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.640
And again, the recons are very good.

657
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:42.900
There's some CG in this recon for the whole going down in the tube

658
00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:43.440
sequence.

659
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:44.759
Really, really well done.

660
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.700
But you weren't getting the, you weren't getting the 5 with the

661
00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:48.839
subtle 2 people.

662
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:50.400
See, that's why I like records.

663
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:55.019
Yeah, but when we watched the real thing after it had been

664
00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:56.519
returned, we kind of discussed it.

665
00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:59.759
And yeah, for both of us, our estimation went up to like 7 or 8

666
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:00.359
out of 10.

667
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:02.099
It is by no means perfect.

668
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:04.440
It probably needs a bit of script tightening.

669
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:07.500
But that's quite, quite common with David Whisaker.

670
00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:10.740
He got such big ideas that how do you cram those into 25 minutes

671
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:11.519
of television.

672
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.000
But it's such a worthy story.

673
00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:18.839
And I know in these podcasts, I've been defending the fact that

674
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.640
the plots are repeated in this season, but that's okay because

675
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.460
they come with new ideas each time.

676
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.779
This is very, very refreshing and very interesting and very

677
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:32.220
different. was, yeah.

678
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.880
I'm not sure if I'd say it's my favourite of the season, but it's

679
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:37.079
definitely very high up there for me.

680
00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:41.339
Look, I mean, I haven't really properly seen Fury from the deep, so

681
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:45.000
there's every chance that that will take over as my favourite

682
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.920
Doctor Who story when I watch it early this week.

683
00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:49.140
Foreshadowing Deal. don't think it will.

684
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:49.740
Okay.

685
00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:54.480
But certainly, this is my favourite of the season and it might be

686
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.099
my favourite trout and it is really spectacularly fun.

687
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.859
I mean, it really is, it's something special.

688
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:06.180
Funny, great characters, you know, interesting plot, demented over

689
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.700
the top, something Doctor Who has never done before.

690
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:11.759
And Doctor Who has stopped at this point being a show that does

691
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:13.200
things that it's never done before.

692
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:16.200
And that's a great shame.

693
00:30:16.259 --> 00:30:21.240
And when you look at where we can only go from this. imagine how

694
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.680
good the dominators is going to be.

695
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:24.240
Oh, God.

696
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:27.180
The Dominators is the only fully excellent Doctor Who story that

697
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.279
I've never been volunteered to finish.

698
00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:32.160
I don't know how you can say that. in the future.

699
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:33.900
Yeah, yeah, it must be good.

700
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:35.880
I'm sure it'd be better if it had a fish person.

701
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:39.480
You know, I have been wondering if our listeners out there would

702
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:40.859
like us to do a commentary or something.

703
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.160
I think a commentary on the dominators, steadily drinking more

704
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.900
sparkling wine could be very interesting.

705
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.420
And then me leaving the room.

706
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.180
That's the reason we get some little feedback on the board.

707
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.480
Because you make threats like that.

708
00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:58.920
Just before we go on, I will say, you know, when you have seen so

709
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:01.259
much, Doctor Who, even when you're watching stories that you

710
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:03.599
haven't seen before, there's often very little that surprises you

711
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.779
because you can kind of extrapolate and know what's coming next

712
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.839
but there is something that really shocked me the 1st time

713
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.380
watching this story and that is the sudden tragic and quite

714
00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:16.019
meaningless death of Korea.

715
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:17.940
It's, that's why.

716
00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:20.160
So, yeah, horror is such a starter character.

717
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:21.059
It's so brutal.

718
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.740
Well, it doesn't belong, Doctor Who, does it?

719
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:23.700
It's Swifted Trump film.

720
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.000
But, you know, it just makes you you already dislike Bennick.

721
00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:30.359
He's or a sadistic little bully. great.

722
00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:33.420
But he's also, until that point, he's been quite comedic.

723
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:36.960
Like when he discovers Faria has betrayed salamander.

724
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.740
He sort of looks up in the middle of the distance and says, Maria.

725
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.319
And I expected him to go on with, I just met.

726
00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:48.839
And then like 5 minutes later, he guns her down, he shoots her in

727
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:52.559
the back and when we were watching the reason, I actually paused

728
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.859
it and I just, do you think she's, I said to Rob, do you think

729
00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:56.279
she's dead?

730
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:58.140
And he says, oh, no, no, she'll be all right.

731
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:00.960
And then, you know, the next bit of the recon is Bennett kicking

732
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:01.319
her over.

733
00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:04.859
It's like, oh, and it threatens to shoot her again.

734
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.740
She's already dead and he's sort of threatening to shoot her.

735
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.319
And she says something about, you know, only being able to die

736
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:11.160
once, I think.

737
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:12.240
And it's really hard.

738
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.480
And he whispers over her over to get the answer and that'd be a

739
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:16.799
switches, you can't frighten me anymore.

740
00:32:16.859 --> 00:32:20.640
It's really, it's really surprising to see a Doctor Who story.

741
00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:23.819
People blame Eric, same with that kind of thing, but...

742
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:26.640
Well, but Eric will do, he said, 20 of those in an episode.

743
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:31.259
No, I don't think it, you know, like it is, you know, I've spoken

744
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:35.039
negatively about violence and nastiness and stuff in Doctor Who

745
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.519
particularly in season three, but I don't mind it here because it

746
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.920
is it's appropriate to the genre that he's doing.

747
00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:44.220
It's appropriate to the genre and because we care about this

748
00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:45.539
person is actually meaningful.

749
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.299
Yeah, and because she's such a great performer.

750
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.940
I think the doctor's quite upset when he learns that too.

751
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.559
Well, he should be.

752
00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:53.339
She's the only one.

753
00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:58.200
We talk about, you know, this not being part of the Yoohoo realm

754
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.480
but she's also one of the few performers that isn't a little bit

755
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.299
pantomimey, and I don't mean that in a disparaging way.

756
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.660
Doctor Who's always been a little bit children's fiction.

757
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.480
It's been okay to see, you can see why there was so much rub with

758
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:13.740
Bill Hartmore and the production team, either how he saw the show

759
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:15.240
going to how they wanted to take it.

760
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:17.099
This is put each year.

761
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.500
I guess that's why it's interesting, even though it's being so

762
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:21.359
formulaic, it's still pushing against itself.

763
00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:25.559
This, these moments with this character fire and with Milton

764
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:28.200
John's and all the rest of it doesn't really belong in Doctor

765
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:28.680
Who.

766
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:31.619
But that makes it all the more interesting to watch and for a

767
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:34.019
modern audience, it's probably the freshest of the season.

768
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:35.519
Hard to get through.

769
00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:37.740
I think it's hard to get through all those episodes because yeah

770
00:33:37.740 --> 00:33:39.180
he's padded and we keep forgetting.

771
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.220
You're not really meant to watch it as a movie.

772
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:42.420
It was never made as a movie.

773
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:46.740
No, this is one of the most Saturday morning cereal.

774
00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:50.099
You meant to have time in between each other, are you?

775
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.700
Although there is a problem this season, which is that it's 4

776
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:56.519
episodes and then every subsequent one is six.

777
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.000
Yeah, the 6 parts are pretty terrible.

778
00:34:00.059 --> 00:34:02.579
They're pretty they're pretty much all 4 parties, which could be

779
00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:03.299
expanded out.

780
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:07.740
Because we lost those werewolves of Canfields, didn't we?

781
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:12.420
Yeah, well, the Duggee Canfields operation where?

782
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:13.199
Oh yeah, thank God.

783
00:34:13.260 --> 00:34:15.840
Well, I don't know, this was this is rumoured to be the one that

784
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:17.400
was put together.

785
00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:19.079
No, okay, no, no, no.

786
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:19.559
All right?

787
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:20.820
Speaking of Duddy Canfield.

788
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.940
Yeah, don't be careful just directing our next story.

789
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.400
The classic or is it weather?

790
00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:32.820
And...

791
00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:36.119
That's one last out.

792
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.559
Another production team, well.

793
00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:47.820
Yeah, say goodbye to Space Adventure. the last time we did.

794
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:49.019
That was it.

795
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:51.179
Maybe we should play it again.

796
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.219
Let's just have a whole lot of just that sound.

797
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:55.199
Just what we do discuss the story.

798
00:34:55.260 --> 00:35:00.659
Our 2nd baked good of the season, Rod has made us yeti pat

799
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:03.360
brownies. except we've already eaten them.

800
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:04.019
Yeti packs.

801
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:05.820
I didn't think they had a digestive trap.

802
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:10.559
You said that's why they were square because they're robots. fair

803
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:10.860
enough.

804
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.900
So the...

805
00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:15.179
It'd have the specific icing as well, didn't it?

806
00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:15.420
Yeah.

807
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:17.159
It tastes a lot better than that.

808
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.539
So they were they were chocolate brownies with cheesecake.

809
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.579
They were, is that why they were so easy?

810
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:25.260
That was, I think that's been the best so far.

811
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:27.659
Yeah, there we go.

812
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:31.380
There's a recommendation and the recipe will be up on the website

813
00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:32.280
at the time of this episode.

814
00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:34.500
Rich, I believe you're covering with a fear.

815
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:36.360
Well, I'm diving in there.

816
00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.239
Look, there's a lot to say about it, but there's also not much to

817
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.300
say because we're back to formula, but we're also finally getting

818
00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:44.880
to see how formula can be done beautifully.

819
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:49.800
You've got the double award of, um, Having Douglas Canfield.

820
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:54.719
So whatever you give him will just work because he's so he's so

821
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.420
smart and logical and yet creative within that.

822
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:58.619
And it's his favourite realm.

823
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:00.300
You've got army boys and shooting things.

824
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:02.340
Because he was in the army.

825
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.000
He was.

826
00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:07.980
He's more happy when he's got a whole lot of blokes in Green Surge

827
00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:10.920
with pointy things and something running at them from the other

828
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.219
end.

829
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.320
Yeah, that's the one.

830
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:16.619
But look, this is the reboot story.

831
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:17.820
We've got WCaprio.

832
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:20.219
We got Derek Sherman on now, a script editor.

833
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:20.699
This is it.

834
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:21.539
Goodbye, Ernest Lloyd.

835
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.320
He's left now.

836
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:25.260
We've got Terence Dix's assistant script editor.

837
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:27.900
It's his 1st it's our 1st Terence.

838
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:29.159
Our 1st Terence.

839
00:36:29.219 --> 00:36:32.460
And we've got Peter Bryant, who's in the role for as long as

840
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:34.619
anybody ever would be in this in this era.

841
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:36.659
But you've got some really good people working on this.

842
00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:40.920
This is maybe the best target novel of the year.

843
00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:44.280
I think Ian Marty's enemy of the world would have been the best

844
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.719
target novel, but WH Smith when they got it back in the day, which

845
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:50.400
was an early 80s, it was certainly along.

846
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.139
It went way overcome.

847
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.139
So if you, you know, normally we recommend reading the book, don't

848
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:57.059
read the enemy of the world paperback.

849
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.019
It makes no sense because of the injudicious cuts that they do to

850
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:02.579
any and I is such a good writer.

851
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.400
But this one, yeah, this one's worth doing because it's Terence

852
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.579
and it's Terence's 1st script editing job and you get a really

853
00:37:08.579 --> 00:37:09.960
nice little target hole out of it.

854
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:13.679
What's happened is, interestingly, and we refer to an abominable

855
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:18.900
snowman that, um, the great intelligence, Oh, Rupert, um, Richard

856
00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:19.920
E. Grant.

857
00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:20.280
Thank you.

858
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:22.679
I want to say Rupert Everett, because they kind of played as

859
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:23.880
camply as each other, aren't they?

860
00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:27.719
Yeah, yeah, around Richard E. Grant and covering cobwebs floating

861
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:28.320
around in space.

862
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:33.000
The TARNIS is is hauled out of the vortex or is it?

863
00:37:33.059 --> 00:37:36.719
So that it's actually in the vortex when it finds itself being

864
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.239
covered in it is. in spraying on cock with.

865
00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.579
Yeah, when we see it from outside, it just seems to be in space.

866
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:42.179
But you know.

867
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.659
Well, actually, but it's the place of the inhabitants of the great

868
00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:46.139
intelligence.

869
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:48.300
So it's the astral plane again.

870
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:49.079
Woo woo.

871
00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:50.159
We're up there.

872
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:52.320
We'd have a meditate and see if you can find the target.

873
00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:53.460
They'll be up there somewhere.

874
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:55.320
That's tomorrow.

875
00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:59.219
Um, this is great for all the little moments, the beautiful sets

876
00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:03.480
you know, the London um, London transport were ranging up BBC

877
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:07.920
furiously demanding their £200 an hour fee because they thought

878
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.659
that they're filmed in the underground.

879
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:10.800
The sets are so good.

880
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.519
You don't agree?

881
00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:15.599
Well, no, they're spectacular, but everyone is walking on wooden

882
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:17.039
floors and stuff.

883
00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:20.639
So it's fairly clear just from the quality of the sound.

884
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:23.219
You know, perhaps the line of transport people haven't watched

885
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:24.119
television before.

886
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:25.559
They're probably watching on old TV.

887
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:27.420
I'm going to say, I actually didn't pick that up.

888
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:28.800
I thought this was film quality.

889
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:29.639
67.

890
00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:30.420
It looks good.

891
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:31.440
It works really well.

892
00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:32.940
And all of that's great.

893
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.699
Oh, the sets, but it's the lighting and the scores.

894
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.320
Well, let's start the very beginning.

895
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:42.840
You see, um, Travis in, in a much aged makeup with mugging away in

896
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:46.380
lots of close-ups, some of this extraordinary kioskiro lighting

897
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:50.460
under Bartok's music, his piece of percussion.

898
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:55.079
And celeste, um, and strings, um, Sting Cooper Cuse.

899
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:58.079
It the same Georgia gramophone for the shining in 1980.

900
00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:01.440
So that beautiful piece of Bella Bartop.

901
00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:02.940
And we're on film, I think.

902
00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:05.519
We're on film, and can I just say it's probably for the last film

903
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.739
of the series, we have pure children, expressionism.

904
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:11.940
The way that's filmed, the close-ups, the right stage.

905
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.579
It's funny they talk about the 30s having been back because this

906
00:39:14.579 --> 00:39:18.239
bills looks like a 1920s 1920s way of shooting.

907
00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:21.239
And then we, before we move on, can't you have really gets where

908
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.460
he's going with this and he's setting it all up.

909
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.099
It's an amazing opening sequence.

910
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:29.400
It is a bit of a pity about Silverstein, though.

911
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:34.260
Oh, he's so straight out of the ghetto. a very lazy stereotype.

912
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:36.480
It's completely, completely.

913
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:40.019
And so, Travis, just to make it to you, Travis, is your Alan

914
00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:43.739
Quartermain adventurer from Abominable Snowman.

915
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:47.280
And now he's got ageing makeup because it's 40 years later.

916
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:48.719
Yeah.

917
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:52.019
Yeah, and now, you see, the fascinating thing with that is, as

918
00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:57.119
some, when I was younger, I watched, uh, the 1st episode of

919
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.719
Weather Fear more than I watched, Epso 2 Abominable Snowman.

920
00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:04.019
So in my mind, that's what Jack Watley looked like.

921
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:07.980
When I got around to watching the full reconstruction of the

922
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:11.159
Abominable Stoneman, There's a lot more of him visually in photos

923
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:13.860
and I, as I mentioned last week, actually found him quite

924
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:14.340
handsome.

925
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:19.559
I had a great new appreciation for the makeup job and the acting

926
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:20.699
job he does in this.

927
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.360
You think so?

928
00:40:21.420 --> 00:40:23.219
Actually, I think it's really theatre in this and it kind of

929
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:26.340
stands out as not being not necessarily worse or better.

930
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.219
It was just not being on the same level and acting in the same way

931
00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:32.820
that everybody else. in the studio is he's very stagey.

932
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.980
It works when you've got a lot of blokes dressed up as marks

933
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.559
because they're all kind of doing the same thing, but here you've

934
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.139
got a lot more of the, you know, the realism thing, the army

935
00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:40.440
boys.

936
00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:42.179
I think it kind of stands out as not fitting in.

937
00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:44.219
It's a great idea though, isn't it?

938
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.260
Like the doctor, they come back.

939
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.679
They come back 40 years later, you know, and there he is and he's

940
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:50.159
got a daughter.

941
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:54.119
So how, well, it's the 1st time he's come back and met someone.

942
00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:56.639
Yeah, yeah, aside from the monk who...

943
00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:58.559
He might have a bit of else on us because he certainly doesn't

944
00:40:58.559 --> 00:40:59.519
recognise Jamie.

945
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:00.480
Maybe that's how he's played.

946
00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:02.639
Well, no, no.

947
00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:03.480
I think it works.

948
00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:08.219
I remember thinking this at the time, but it is just that, you

949
00:41:08.219 --> 00:41:11.760
know, it's been 40 years since you've seen Jamie, so he sees a

950
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:12.239
young person.

951
00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:15.179
There's no way he's going to think it's Jamie because Jamie's now

952
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:16.139
60 something.

953
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:18.480
Yeah, I believe he does comment, you know, those 2 young people

954
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.719
look familiar, but I don't know who they are because, yeah, his

955
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:23.159
brain can't...

956
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:24.840
And he's never seen the tarts, he says.

957
00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:25.440
You know what I mean?

958
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:26.219
Like he'd heard about it.

959
00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:27.780
Sure. weirdly, yeah.

960
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:32.400
And it is, it's the episode where Pat's having a, a little lie

961
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.500
down as well because he's being exploded.

962
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.599
But you've also got some of the best support.

963
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:37.500
You talk about the young people.

964
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.019
You've got this some of their supporting cast.

965
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:42.659
In fact, you know, got the template for all future stories

966
00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:45.179
involving this kind of setup.

967
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:46.679
You've got Anne Travis.

968
00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:48.000
Oh, God, she's great.

969
00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:50.880
And Travis is an archetype, not just for the show.

970
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:52.500
Well, I mean, she's this sure.

971
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:56.519
You look at you look at episode 5 when they're pulling apart the

972
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:57.719
spear and chatting away.

973
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:01.079
It's almost like, I mean, it's not like, it's almost in the camera

974
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:04.019
angles, the same as episode 3 of Speed.

975
00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:07.019
Yeah, with Carolina and John.

976
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:10.260
Well, in fact, they're both they're working on a control device

977
00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:15.900
that has short range that can be used to neutralise the sort of

978
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:18.300
strange robotic villain thing.

979
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:22.320
Well, you know, coming up next year, there is one major character

980
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.539
that we're deliberately holding off in a Whittaker style.

981
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.000
I haven't mentioned who this story is famous for introducing.

982
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:28.860
Exactly.

983
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:34.320
It wasn't going to be Gene Marsh's brother coming back for

984
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:34.920
invasion.

985
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:36.480
It was written for Anne Travis.

986
00:42:36.539 --> 00:42:39.780
She was going to be the repeating character along with Jack

987
00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:40.500
Watley.

988
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:42.000
Yeah, and it wasn't available.

989
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:43.199
We'll get to the.

990
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:44.219
How amazing.

991
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:46.139
Is this support character woman?

992
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:51.719
I spent, it feels like 2 years now for moaning how Caroline Ford's

993
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:56.099
part of the doctor's granddaughter was so poorly served and poorly

994
00:42:56.099 --> 00:42:57.360
you know, is poorly addressed.

995
00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:00.119
But you've got in just the space of a couple of episodes.

996
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:05.039
You've got Anne Travis completely sounding off against the David

997
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.260
Frost character of the reporter Jawley.

998
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:08.400
They're all in a bunker.

999
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:10.019
They all stationed down in the underground.

1000
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:13.800
World War 2 was still a big deal 20 plus years later in the public

1001
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:14.219
mind.

1002
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:19.800
This went out on the 25th anniversary of the Bethnal Green

1003
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:24.360
disaster and over 130 people were killed trying to get out of one

1004
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.420
of the underground in a bomb raid.

1005
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:27.659
Right.

1006
00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:31.380
So it's, it was really poignant for for the viewers at home.

1007
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:34.679
And they said an claustrophobia of this and is amazing.

1008
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:37.380
Yeah, but I know there's a certain character called Lethbridge

1009
00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:39.539
Stewart who appears in this story, but he really doesn't have much

1010
00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:39.840
to do.

1011
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:41.820
It's actually the Antrovist, not it, isn't it?

1012
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.860
So Anne gets 2 great things.

1013
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.739
The one you mentioned where she completely owns surely and calls

1014
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:50.699
him a gutter journalist and talks about his comic strips, reducing

1015
00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:51.599
everything to a comic strip.

1016
00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:53.039
You know that's all about David Frost.

1017
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:54.960
Fantastic.

1018
00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:56.219
And he's terrific.

1019
00:43:56.219 --> 00:43:58.980
And he won us opposite of and then sort of comes back towards the

1020
00:43:58.980 --> 00:43:59.280
end.

1021
00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:02.039
But then the other one is that the well with night.

1022
00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:04.019
Yes, when night.

1023
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:08.159
Should we say that Nick Courtney was actually cast as Captain

1024
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:14.340
Knight and David Langdon, David Langdon with the, what else has he

1025
00:44:14.340 --> 00:44:14.760
been on?

1026
00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:18.480
He's been an Avengers, and he's a lovely sort of, he's the kind of

1027
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:22.139
Hugh, what's his spacey booze from?

1028
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:24.300
Hugh Monomill, his character.

1029
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.000
He played a similar part in soaps at the time back then.

1030
00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:33.239
But yeah, so Dave Langley was actually cast as Colonel Stewart, as

1031
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.699
Colonel Lethbridge, as he was, and the Stewart was added later.

1032
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:40.380
I think the Letterby Stewart, the Scott thing was added simply to

1033
00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:44.280
make sense of why Jamie is so sucky to English soldiers.

1034
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.320
And my boys got students.

1035
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:48.840
Oh, because you're part of the Scots.

1036
00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:52.019
Yeah, and he's wearing a Stuart Tartan on his side. and that's why

1037
00:44:52.019 --> 00:44:56.579
Jamie seems to accord him so much. so much of their civility so

1038
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:56.760
much.

1039
00:44:56.820 --> 00:45:00.539
It makes no sense to me that Germany is so sweet with the English

1040
00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:01.320
soldiers in this.

1041
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:02.460
He should be.

1042
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:03.300
Yes, what is it?

1043
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.260
That's right.

1044
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.079
Getting these jerk and stabbing them all.

1045
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.920
They're killing the lambs for being a bit rubbish.

1046
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:13.079
Anne is amazing.

1047
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:16.079
She was, as you were saying, she also gets that fantastic line of

1048
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:16.920
why are you a scientist?

1049
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:17.940
Why did why?

1050
00:45:18.059 --> 00:45:19.920
Yeah, what's a girl, like you're doing a place like this?

1051
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.440
Oh, when I was a little girl, I thought I'd be a scientist.

1052
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:24.659
Then I grew up and became a scientist.

1053
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:28.860
You've always got the Batman cows.

1054
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:30.420
I was just coming up.

1055
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.400
How amazing would it have been if we'd had her?

1056
00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:36.179
Yeah, she's and she's beautiful and she's like smart under

1057
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:39.480
pressure and stuff and she doesn't go hysterical or crazy when her

1058
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:42.239
father gets kidnapped, but yeah, she's in control.

1059
00:45:42.300 --> 00:45:43.380
Whereas Lethbridge Stewart.

1060
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.179
Her's a bit nuts and wet and pants.

1061
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:48.719
Well, he runs upstairs and gets that great location, common garden

1062
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:49.320
shooting.

1063
00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:51.179
This is the 1st and only time you don't like it?

1064
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:55.559
Oh, I think it's I think Canfield cuts it really well.

1065
00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:58.019
But the point of it is, it's a massacre.

1066
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:01.199
The only one that comes back, and this is the root future, bring

1067
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:01.559
it here.

1068
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:04.440
It goes and hides at the top of the skip.

1069
00:46:04.500 --> 00:46:06.000
That's the only one here.

1070
00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:09.059
And then he comes back down, loses it, gets a bit wet. mumbles.

1071
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.659
Well, I mean, it's that thing where they wipe out half of the cast

1072
00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:14.460
you know, in episode four.

1073
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.380
Yeah, but we don't need them anymore.

1074
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.079
But can we can we talk about, because the thing that I think

1075
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:24.059
spoils that location thing in episode four, which is clearly the

1076
00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:26.519
big set pieces and it's directed.

1077
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:28.019
And do you remember those photos?

1078
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.360
They appeared on Facebook, they were like discovered a year or so

1079
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:30.659
ago?

1080
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:34.440
Yeah, there's a the yeti gooping about it, copping down.

1081
00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:35.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1082
00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:37.800
And there's that one where the dog comes up to the yeti and kind

1083
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:38.940
of is scared and stuff.

1084
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:42.539
So anyway, so they're in Covent Garden, there's yeti, and they're

1085
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:45.300
redesigned yeti, and weirdly, the redesign is completely

1086
00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:47.280
telegraphed because in the 1st episode.

1087
00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:48.840
It transmogrifies.

1088
00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:51.000
Yeah, and they do a roll back and mix.

1089
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.579
The intelligence is able to transmute matter.

1090
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:54.179
Yeah.

1091
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:58.860
So so that's presumably why it makes all those of incredibly crap

1092
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:01.079
control rooms in both of its stories.

1093
00:47:01.139 --> 00:47:03.119
No, it gets months to do that.

1094
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:06.599
I think the new yeti look even more stupid than the previous

1095
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:07.440
yeti.

1096
00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:11.820
And they've got like, they've got nose beaks, they've got mandual

1097
00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:13.619
eyes.

1098
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:15.599
How good do they look in those tunnels?

1099
00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:16.800
And how good do they sound?

1100
00:47:16.860 --> 00:47:18.119
Yeah, they sound good.

1101
00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:19.500
Do you know what that sounds?

1102
00:47:19.500 --> 00:47:20.880
Slow down.

1103
00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:25.380
It's a Thomas crapper system. from Tooting Beth.

1104
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:25.920
It is.

1105
00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:28.199
It's the luminous sound.

1106
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:31.980
Well, I've never been terrified by them before, but...

1107
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:36.059
Yeah, no, they are scary sounding, but gosh, they look stupid and

1108
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:40.079
at this point, and it's the point that I've made before, at this

1109
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.820
point, they play space adventurer.

1110
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:45.239
Just in case you missed the point that they're lampooning

1111
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:45.480
themselves.

1112
00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:48.119
All of the monsters are interchangeable.

1113
00:47:48.179 --> 00:47:51.360
This week, the robots have shaggy things.

1114
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:57.179
You know, like in a few weeks time, they'll be weed, and then in a

1115
00:47:57.179 --> 00:48:01.440
couple of weeks time, they'll be back to wearing sort of plum

1116
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:04.500
soles and shiny silver.

1117
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:05.699
This is the one where...

1118
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.340
This is the moment they're plugged into your randomiser and just

1119
00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:10.559
come up with 4 random ideas.

1120
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:15.300
Yeah, robot, yeti, underground, webby stuff.

1121
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:17.519
Yeah, web shoes in you.

1122
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:19.739
Oh, yeah, we've got the BBC food machine back again.

1123
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:20.639
Hooray.

1124
00:48:20.699 --> 00:48:24.659
Yeah, it's it's still getting more of small script action than

1125
00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:25.619
Michael Crane's doing.

1126
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:30.059
Yeah, it was kind of cruel, but it's... not mindful.

1127
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:33.000
It's kind of, it's kind of cruel thing that you're right.

1128
00:48:33.059 --> 00:48:33.960
It's exactly what it is.

1129
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:35.519
And you think this is...

1130
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:40.500
This is where it's very strange because, I mean, once again, yes

1131
00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:45.000
it is the same kind of structure for the story, but I think it

1132
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.280
just proves my point that it's not so much the structure of the

1133
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:47.519
story.

1134
00:48:47.579 --> 00:48:48.119
It's important.

1135
00:48:48.179 --> 00:48:51.719
It is the extra decoration that the script comes with.

1136
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:55.079
We have a collection of interesting and well-developed

1137
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:55.739
characters.

1138
00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:00.059
We have, you know, Charlie...

1139
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:04.739
Imagine though, if you had different types of stories with

1140
00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:07.380
different types of well-developed characters.

1141
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:08.400
Do you know what I mean?

1142
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:10.739
We kind of get that next year.

1143
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:14.099
Yes, but we don't get it this year and that's really my point.

1144
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:15.960
But I don't think...

1145
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:21.360
Season 6 is as successful as being entertaining as season 5, but

1146
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:24.840
we'll get to that next year, but as I was saying, because we have

1147
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:27.840
these interesting characters, we have an interesting Houdina

1148
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:33.300
element, because in the 1st Yeti story, we knew who the conduit

1149
00:49:33.300 --> 00:49:33.659
was.

1150
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:36.599
We knew it would have the same...

1151
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:38.519
I just love saying that.

1152
00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:40.139
I spent a lot of time practising.

1153
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:40.679
Yeah.

1154
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.519
And we knew that... was controlling Songston.

1155
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:46.440
This time...

1156
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:48.239
This really cool little decor figures.

1157
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:52.079
Which Debbie Watley still has one?

1158
00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:53.099
Oh does she?

1159
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:57.300
I was co-hosting a convention last year that Deborah Walling was

1160
00:49:57.300 --> 00:49:59.880
at, and one of them was up for auction somewhere.

1161
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:02.219
I mentioned that to her and she said, oh my god, I got one of

1162
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:02.579
those.

1163
00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:06.780
So she was controlling the...

1164
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:10.079
And she asked me to look it up online and I did and I showed her

1165
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:10.739
how much it was working.

1166
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.019
She said, well, I don't want to sell it, but it's nice to know how

1167
00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:13.559
much was it?

1168
00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:15.480
Oh, God, that's £6000?

1169
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:16.380
£6000.

1170
00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:17.400
Maybe.

1171
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:19.739
Let's get wickling.

1172
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.679
You just stick it in the brigadier's pocket.

1173
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.480
But yeah, we just don't know who the conduit is.

1174
00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:31.019
And for those of you, this, you know, it's a possibility that for

1175
00:50:31.019 --> 00:50:33.780
the 1st time, I think, in this podcast, we can say for those of

1176
00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:37.679
you who haven't seen it, because you hadn't seen it, Nathan, until

1177
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.699
you were watching Boy's time.

1178
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:40.380
There's a possibility.

1179
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.019
The end listener, that you don't know who the traitor is.

1180
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:44.099
So I'm not going to mention it.

1181
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.980
But when it happened, when it was revealed.

1182
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:47.940
It was going to be rotten.

1183
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.860
That's what I think.

1184
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:52.920
I was surprised by who it was, but at the same time, I thought

1185
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.599
back over the plot and went, ah, yeah, it can be, it, and I'd also

1186
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.840
like to say, I really like John Rollerson in this. who plays

1187
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:01.860
Harold Trawley.

1188
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:05.820
And part of the reason I really like him in this is, dear listen

1189
00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:08.639
you may not know this, he was a very short-lived sidekick in the

1190
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:09.119
Avengers.

1191
00:51:09.179 --> 00:51:10.320
He is too.

1192
00:51:10.380 --> 00:51:10.860
Yeah.

1193
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:15.059
After the original Avengers lineup with Ian Hendry and Patrick

1194
00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:16.920
McNee is the co-star.

1195
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:18.000
Doctor Martin.

1196
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:21.960
John Rollerson came in to play Dr. Martin King for 3 leftover

1197
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:22.500
scripts.

1198
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:27.420
Tara to his mate. before they figured out, oh, actually, we can

1199
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:29.460
cast a woman and we don't need to change the script.

1200
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:32.880
And you've heard me say it before that on a Blackman's role was

1201
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:35.159
essentially just written for a man and they crossed it in.

1202
00:51:35.219 --> 00:51:37.500
Well, before they did that, they thought, let's have another man

1203
00:51:37.500 --> 00:51:37.920
in here.

1204
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:40.619
And it was quite difficult for him on the set because he was a

1205
00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:41.340
jobbing actor.

1206
00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:45.960
You know, he had had to accept work as the corpse of a dead king

1207
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:48.900
in Shakespeare, who's just dragged out and dropped on stage for

1208
00:51:48.900 --> 00:51:52.260
the 1st acts, and that's how he was that's how he was supporting

1209
00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:52.679
his family.

1210
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.739
So he took the Avengers job, knowing it was only a 3 week gig

1211
00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:58.380
knowing he was in this big thing because the Avengers were still

1212
00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:02.099
big already, but knowing that he wouldn't be a part of it for too

1213
00:52:02.099 --> 00:52:02.219
long.

1214
00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:05.340
And I was really disappointed when I saw his revenge and stuff

1215
00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:06.599
because he's not really good in it.

1216
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:07.619
But in this, he's great.

1217
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:12.179
And he did have a nice change in luck because it was during this

1218
00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:15.059
time he had a 6 year stint on Coronation Street and that is what

1219
00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:15.780
he's remembered for.

1220
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:19.079
Nathan, I know we're butting heads on this again, but...

1221
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:24.480
I think this story is the whole based under siege thing in

1222
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.900
apopiosis is as good as based under siege gets.

1223
00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:33.480
And part of that is because great direction, great writing, great

1224
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:34.380
characterisation.

1225
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:36.239
Great characterisation.

1226
00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:37.739
We've got an epiphany in this.

1227
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:39.539
You don't get that very often, Doctor Who.

1228
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:43.019
The reason Letterbridge Stewart is brought back is because he has

1229
00:52:43.019 --> 00:52:45.719
a right of passage, he loses those troops, and he's a very

1230
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:48.179
different character in the fight, although he does suggest to the

1231
00:52:48.179 --> 00:52:49.559
doctor that he self-sacrifices.

1232
00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:51.780
I wish we'd seen a bit more of that in the pertly era.

1233
00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:55.199
But there was that moment of where he'd been completely different

1234
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:56.340
and quite manipulative.

1235
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:57.659
Well, he's the red hair and herring.

1236
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:00.599
We're supposed to believe that he's difficult for us to watch it

1237
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:00.900
now.

1238
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.820
He's not the villain.

1239
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:06.300
But you're meant to assume that he is, but at the time.

1240
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:08.039
Everyone's the red herring, though.

1241
00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:10.260
For a while, you think it's surely, for a while, you think it's

1242
00:53:10.260 --> 00:53:12.480
surely, for a while, you think it's true.

1243
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:14.159
Yeah, it's just hands under suspicion.

1244
00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:14.820
Yeah.

1245
00:53:14.820 --> 00:53:16.980
I don't think that stuff's all that strong.

1246
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.059
But I probably agree with you that of the base under siege stories

1247
00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:25.440
this year that this is the best one, but it did wear out as well

1248
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.739
and I think it's 6 episodes, and I think the yeti are stupid, and

1249
00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:30.300
that's a problem.

1250
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:32.099
It's like we said before, it would have made a great call

1251
00:53:32.099 --> 00:53:32.519
partner.

1252
00:53:32.579 --> 00:53:33.000
Yeah.

1253
00:53:33.059 --> 00:53:33.840
Yeah.

1254
00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:35.159
And I quite like the end.

1255
00:53:35.219 --> 00:53:39.000
You know, the doctor has a plan and Jamie has a plan and they try

1256
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.239
and execute them both and Jamie's plan ruins the doctor's plan.

1257
00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:46.800
The plan, he said, was to drain the great intelligence, but does

1258
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.500
that mean that he was going to absorb it and actually become

1259
00:53:49.500 --> 00:53:51.239
omnipotent?

1260
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:52.679
No, no, no.

1261
00:53:52.739 --> 00:53:54.059
Hello, carting of the weight.

1262
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:55.019
Yeah.

1263
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:58.019
And when you absorb a gin and tonic, you don't become a gin and

1264
00:53:58.019 --> 00:53:58.320
tonic.

1265
00:53:58.619 --> 00:53:59.340
We certainly do.

1266
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:02.820
It's depending on what you're doing at all.

1267
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:03.599
I don't know.

1268
00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:05.400
It's a curious thing.

1269
00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:06.300
It's not really explained.

1270
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.940
Isn't it possible that the doctor could have actually taken on

1271
00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:11.880
more powers and that's why he was so aggrieved because just

1272
00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:13.860
leaving a villain floating up in space.

1273
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:17.400
Well, we've mentioned before that this 2nd doctor is a lot darker

1274
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:20.639
than we might have casually viewed him previously, he's certainly

1275
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:21.840
been manipulative this season.

1276
00:54:21.900 --> 00:54:24.239
I think maybe there might have been something going on there.

1277
00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:26.699
Perhaps there was a plan to go back to Gallifrey one day.

1278
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:27.900
I shall go back.

1279
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:30.780
Something I have to say was back, but why not?

1280
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:35.880
It was at this point in America, the original X-Men comic series

1281
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:39.420
was still running, but it was very short B to be taken off.

1282
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:42.599
And a feature of that original X-Men comic series was that

1283
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:48.239
Professor Xavier and Magnus Magneto could actually communicate on

1284
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:49.019
the astral plane.

1285
00:54:49.380 --> 00:54:51.900
It's been crowded up there, isn't it?

1286
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:54.780
And they would often have discussions on the astral plane.

1287
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:58.320
And, you know, Billy Xavier is not a very nice man.

1288
00:54:58.380 --> 00:55:02.159
He actually attacked make this on the Astral plane at various

1289
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.619
points and tries to sort of burn out his brain and that kind of

1290
00:55:04.619 --> 00:55:04.800
thing.

1291
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:08.340
And, you know, I have to wonder if the writers were, at the very

1292
00:55:08.340 --> 00:55:12.599
least, aware of this comic tradition that was now coming out of

1293
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.000
the United States because Marvel was getting bigger and bigger in

1294
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:15.539
the states.

1295
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:18.360
But the Marvel stuff was actually picking up on the hippie stuff

1296
00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:20.579
that we've been talking about before with Leary.

1297
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:23.880
So that's not necessarily the primary source, although it's a big

1298
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:25.019
part of this whole story.

1299
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:26.880
Yeah, everyone was looking at it.

1300
00:55:26.940 --> 00:55:29.099
That's still playing with terms that George Harrison was using it

1301
00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:30.480
in conversations and interviews.

1302
00:55:30.539 --> 00:55:33.599
These were terms that were very new, but it was certainly peaking

1303
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:33.900
interest.

1304
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.500
I think the doctor was actually up to something a lot darker than

1305
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:38.219
any of us realised.

1306
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:40.320
Darker necessarily.

1307
00:55:40.380 --> 00:55:42.900
Well, Depends on what he would have done with it.

1308
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:46.079
You wouldn't expect someone to, like, him to actually be after

1309
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:48.900
power, but then again...

1310
00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:51.480
He still tend to work out for him surprisingly, maybe he isn't

1311
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:55.139
falling into everything in a way that we're about to discover at

1312
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:56.219
the end of next year.

1313
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:58.920
Perhaps things aren't quite as simple as we finish.

1314
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:04.019
Evans gets a chocolate bar from a vending machine, and it's

1315
00:56:04.019 --> 00:56:06.300
Camfields, chocolate bar.

1316
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:08.639
They take a tanner.

1317
00:56:08.699 --> 00:56:10.559
They take a 6pence piece.

1318
00:56:10.619 --> 00:56:12.300
That machine takes 6 piece.

1319
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:14.280
That's all phased out by now.

1320
00:56:14.340 --> 00:56:17.579
Oh, the whole 1975 thing now written.

1321
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:18.900
You were saying something again.

1322
00:56:18.900 --> 00:56:20.760
It's can't be 1970. can't be 1975.

1323
00:56:20.940 --> 00:56:22.500
The ads are Christmas 1967.

1324
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:24.119
We've got product placement in this one.

1325
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:28.800
Yeah, there's a film starring Sydney Poisier and something, which

1326
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.139
is there's... which is okay.

1327
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:34.440
It could be a revival, but there are other things that the actual

1328
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:35.579
London Underground.

1329
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:38.579
And Jamie weirdly now can read these maps even though I've never

1330
00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:39.900
seen it underground triangle before.

1331
00:56:40.019 --> 00:56:44.099
Yeah, it's no, there's a few things in here that it's definitely

1332
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:45.179
late 60s.

1333
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:46.380
There is not meant to be anything else.

1334
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.659
The 40 year thing, it could be vague.

1335
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:51.719
There's a suggestion that the abominable snowman could actually be

1336
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:53.280
in the 20s and not in the 30s.

1337
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:54.119
There's nothing to read.

1338
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:55.679
No one would know what a robot is.

1339
00:56:56.159 --> 00:57:00.900
Because the word robots like invented in like 1920, but... by

1340
00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:02.940
Taryn Capell, yeah. by Tari Capelle, yeah.

1341
00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:04.139
Yeah, it is famous playing.

1342
00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:05.460
That's the thing.

1343
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:09.900
Well, I've always been of the opinion that the whole 1975 thing is

1344
00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:13.199
easy to work out by the fact that the only person who says it was

1345
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:18.000
40 years ago in 1935 is Travers who's already been shown to be a

1346
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.679
bit eccentric and to have a faulty memory.

1347
00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:22.320
Well, he thinks he can lose a control sphere behind the sofa or

1348
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:24.960
just his daughter does. something as important as that.

1349
00:57:25.019 --> 00:57:25.980
No, no, no, no.

1350
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:27.719
It's the late 60s.

1351
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:28.860
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1352
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:32.400
That's the only way to explain the costume choices.

1353
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:33.900
That's when this really happened.

1354
00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:36.179
No, no, no, no, no.

1355
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:36.840
Yeah, visually.

1356
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:37.619
Yeah.

1357
00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:38.460
No, I get it.

1358
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:42.599
I also think too, Covent Garden is still a cost among this thing

1359
00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:43.980
that it stopped by 1970.

1360
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:47.940
They're still flogging fruit and beach when they go up on the...

1361
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:49.920
Again, that's stopped if I said this.

1362
00:57:49.980 --> 00:57:54.300
So I actually think that the unit dating controversy is just

1363
00:57:54.300 --> 00:57:57.539
ridiculous, really, because what you're arguing about is in what

1364
00:57:57.539 --> 00:58:05.219
year did yeti invade the underground and London get evacuated and

1365
00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:07.019
your only possible answer.

1366
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:10.380
That would be that never actually happened.

1367
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:14.760
Or it happened on television in 1968.

1368
00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:18.840
So the unit stories all happened in the year of transmission, but

1369
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:22.260
they only happened on television because they're not real.

1370
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.199
The common serious addresses that...

1371
00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:26.460
No, they make fun of it.

1372
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:29.820
Tenant says something about, you know, like he worked the unit as

1373
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:33.719
a scientific advisor in the 70s or was it the 80s, you know, or

1374
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:34.139
something like that.

1375
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:36.900
See, I actually have a theory about it.

1376
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:39.900
But I'm not going to express it now because it revolves around

1377
00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:43.860
something, a certain event that happens in certain Tom Baker

1378
00:58:43.860 --> 00:58:44.159
story.

1379
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:47.940
So I'm going to wait until we get to that story and then I'm going

1380
00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:51.539
to drop it because I've never seen I've never seen anyone else

1381
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:52.860
guessing it's seen to do.

1382
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:53.400
I might be wrong.

1383
00:58:53.460 --> 00:58:55.079
I'm going for pyramids of my arms.

1384
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:57.239
Okay, so you live in an envelope.

1385
00:58:57.300 --> 00:58:58.860
Well, Brendan is from 1980.

1386
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:00.539
He is not actually from 1983.

1387
00:59:00.659 --> 00:59:03.179
Oh, God. friend of the podcast.

1388
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:04.679
Jane Selwood is from 1980.

1389
00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:06.179
Yes, he has his often bitch.

1390
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:11.039
In those Andy Pandy pyjamas.

1391
00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:14.639
No, I just worked out why you waste those.

1392
00:59:23.699 --> 00:59:27.780
Yeah, so, um, it's coming to the end of another podcast.

1393
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:31.920
Just a reminder, Boats, we do now have a regular giveaway

1394
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:34.079
competition with the podcast.

1395
00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:40.079
Just like us on Facebook and share this episode, comment on the

1396
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:43.980
episode on the website to be in the running for a target book of

1397
00:59:43.980 --> 00:59:47.099
your choice from a selection that we have donated to us by a

1398
00:59:47.099 --> 00:59:48.780
friend of the podcast, Tony Galuzo.

1399
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:54.420
It does also count if you follow and retweet us on Twitter and

1400
00:59:54.420 --> 00:59:56.039
then comment on our website too.

1401
00:59:56.099 --> 00:59:58.800
We'll mention this on the show notes as well, of course.

1402
00:59:58.860 --> 01:00:02.760
And just before we go, gentlemen, I'd just like to hear a brief

1403
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:03.119
opinion.

1404
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:05.099
Do you think there's more missing episodes that are coming back

1405
01:00:05.099 --> 01:00:06.179
that we don't know about yet?

1406
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:09.659
Uh, we hear things that are being said.

1407
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:11.400
No, no, but yeah, look, there are.

1408
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:13.739
There are rivers, and I don't think you'll get to any trouble

1409
01:00:13.739 --> 01:00:15.780
because, you know, there's only 3 of you listening.

1410
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:20.280
There are some Queensland fans who have had Marco Polo for a long

1411
01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:20.519
time.

1412
01:00:20.579 --> 01:00:24.599
There, yeah, there are other sources and that there are internal

1413
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:26.519
frictions, you know, and the payment thing.

1414
01:00:26.579 --> 01:00:27.719
But yeah, look, they are out there.

1415
01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:28.559
It's too much.

1416
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.659
Let's just apply Occam's razor.

1417
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:35.039
It's too much of a coincidence that the 2 stories that, you know

1418
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:40.380
in the general astralness of fanniness, that the fans most wanted

1419
01:00:40.380 --> 01:00:42.719
were weather fear and enemy of the world from the season.

1420
01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:45.960
They let, you know, after on the convention set, but these are the

1421
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:46.619
ones they talk about.

1422
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:49.980
They both turn up, they come on, too much.

1423
01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:51.000
Of course they're out there.

1424
01:00:51.059 --> 01:00:54.179
We just have to hope they come out before we're on dialysis

1425
01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:55.860
machines having to watch them in a mirror.

1426
01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:56.880
What would you most like?

1427
01:00:56.940 --> 01:00:58.380
It's obviously a massacre.

1428
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:00.780
It's such a popular choice in this podcast.

1429
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:01.860
Does that not exist?

1430
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.159
It felt like the old 12 episodes of that.

1431
01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:08.699
Personally, what I would like to see are the ones that are the

1432
01:01:08.699 --> 01:01:12.539
hardest to come to on an audio and the ones that don't necessarily

1433
01:01:12.539 --> 01:01:15.599
like you were saying, Brendan, earlier with enemy of the world

1434
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:18.780
didn't really grab you so much as a reconstruction.

1435
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:21.239
But you enrolled, really got it when you watched it.

1436
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:24.960
I said, because you're seeing actors in real time doing doing

1437
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:28.199
stuff with the faces that actors do and voices and all the rest of

1438
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:30.659
it, pariah just blows me away on the screen.

1439
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:32.639
I always loved her as a character in the audio.

1440
01:01:32.699 --> 01:01:36.900
That's my 1st love, but there's an audio, but that, no, no, no

1441
01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:39.659
she's just Carmen Monroe's just it for me this year.

1442
01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:43.260
She's my go to choice if we have to give an award to this season.

1443
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:44.639
It's come on right.

1444
01:01:44.699 --> 01:01:45.659
What would I like to see?

1445
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:47.519
the ones that are the most actually the ones that are actually

1446
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:49.260
about the subjects of performance?

1447
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:50.519
So yeah, it's still a massacre.

1448
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:53.400
Anything with an M, actually, mythmakers as well.

1449
01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:54.900
Yeah, mythmakers would be something.

1450
01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:56.280
I powered the Daleks.

1451
01:01:56.280 --> 01:01:57.659
Oh, that's the other one.

1452
01:01:57.719 --> 01:01:58.199
Yeah, yeah.

1453
01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:59.519
So the one that I want back.

1454
01:01:59.579 --> 01:02:00.960
I've got no idea. you know what I mean?

1455
01:02:01.019 --> 01:02:03.360
Like there were all sorts of rumours and things, but everything

1456
01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:06.840
seems to have dried up and I think it's all closely associated

1457
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:10.739
with the, you know, demise of the classic DVD range.

1458
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:13.320
I don't know, like that probably didn't have to end.

1459
01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:16.800
You've got to think that, you know, maybe they had some releases

1460
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:19.320
schedule because they were expecting something and then had to

1461
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:20.039
drop them.

1462
01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:22.619
So rather than doing the thing which you would have expected them

1463
01:02:22.619 --> 01:02:24.960
to do, which is release special editions of things that had

1464
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:26.280
already been released or whatever.

1465
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:28.440
The thing has just gone away.

1466
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:33.780
So you think it has more to do with the comedy recasting by Cereon

1467
01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:36.960
McKellen and Derek Jack of the, in the hit show, Vicious, now

1468
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:40.679
starring Philip Morris and Ian Levine on their Twitter feed.

1469
01:02:40.739 --> 01:02:42.239
I think we only got that.

1470
01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:43.619
I don't think you need to.

1471
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:44.639
Because everybody knows it.

1472
01:02:44.699 --> 01:02:45.599
Yeah, seriously.

1473
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.039
He's sadly very public.

1474
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:49.139
Don't cut it, seriously, and keep this in.

1475
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:51.659
It's okay to put it up that everybody is saying this.

1476
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:52.559
It's on Facebook.

1477
01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:54.360
People are saying this on Facebook.

1478
01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:57.239
No, but on the Doctor Who page, you just say, Philip Morris and

1479
01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:00.000
Ian Levine are just a great comic that you are of all time.

1480
01:03:00.059 --> 01:03:03.239
I think you can see the kind of characters that are involved in

1481
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:06.000
this and the reason that for certain 12, you know, people might be

1482
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:06.900
holding stuff back.

1483
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:08.820
It's all out there on Facebook easy to read.

1484
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:12.360
Yeah, that's where I think there is something else going on

1485
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:17.099
because the way that the people involved are acting, and in this

1486
01:03:17.099 --> 01:03:19.860
case, Philip Morrison, Ian Levine, and their animosity with each

1487
01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:24.960
other, I'm really wanting that six-part show to be Rebecca Front

1488
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:25.920
could direct.

1489
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:33.239
No, I just think there has to be more than we know in order for

1490
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:37.019
there to be this croissant between them.

1491
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:39.119
In terms of...

1492
01:03:39.179 --> 01:03:42.719
Now, in terms of, in terms of what I'd like to see back, I would

1493
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:47.280
actually, If I could only get one more back, if I could only get

1494
01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:47.699
one more.

1495
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:49.800
It would be the macro terror.

1496
01:03:49.860 --> 01:03:51.480
Yeah, good choice.

1497
01:03:51.539 --> 01:03:53.219
One to have more Ben and Polly.

1498
01:03:53.280 --> 01:03:54.059
That's good.

1499
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:58.320
And 2 because as I said last podcast, I think it is the best story

1500
01:03:58.320 --> 01:03:59.159
of that season.

1501
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:00.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1502
01:04:00.900 --> 01:04:04.980
I quite like to see Zenia Merton's dance, though, in Marco Polo.

1503
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:06.119
Marco Polo would be amazing.

1504
01:04:06.179 --> 01:04:06.539
Yeah.

1505
01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:08.820
Let's just let's just...

1506
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:09.659
We want the whole lot.

1507
01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:11.699
I want everything for Christmas.

1508
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:13.860
I even want the space pirates back.

1509
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.199
I'd love to see the space pirates, actually.

1510
01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:17.099
To see it.

1511
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:18.000
It looks amazing.

1512
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:19.559
You could watch it with the sound down.

1513
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:21.719
Right.

1514
01:04:21.780 --> 01:04:25.199
Well, on that note, dear listener, we will be back next week

1515
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:30.360
finishing off, season 5 of Doctor Who, we are on the siege by

1516
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:36.719
Seaweed and Foam and Cybermen in uh Fury from the Beach and the

1517
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:37.559
Wheel in Space.

1518
01:04:37.679 --> 01:04:39.900
Another David Whittaker story.

1519
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:41.400
Another David Whitt story.

1520
01:04:41.460 --> 01:04:43.320
Is it as good as any of the world?

1521
01:04:43.380 --> 01:04:44.760
Yeah, maybe.

1522
01:04:45.659 --> 01:04:48.239
Come back next weekend by now.

1523
01:04:48.300 --> 01:04:49.139
Until then good night.

1524
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:50.039
Good night.

1525
01:04:50.099 --> 01:04:50.340
Thank you.

1526
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:58.619
You have been listening to Flight 2 Entirety with Nathan Bottomley

1527
01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:00.059
Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1528
01:05:00.059 --> 01:05:03.360
This episode, Internal Pink Wobbly Bits, was recorded on Sunday

1529
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:04.260
the 9th of November.

1530
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:06.719
The next episode will be released on December 7th.

1531
01:05:06.780 --> 01:05:09.659
You can find us online at flighttoentirety.com, collect your

1532
01:05:09.659 --> 01:05:13.139
entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1533
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:15.960
If the leader of our worlds are in published good summers for all

1534
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:17.159
we have eternal winter.

1535
01:05:20.219 --> 01:05:27.000
Uh, Yeah, so, uh, we've got one more episode for season five, which

1536
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:28.559
we will actually be recording.

1537
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:32.699
The day this episode comes out because today is Doctor Who's

1538
01:05:32.699 --> 01:05:37.619
Birthday, the day we release this episode in the 25th of November

1539
01:05:37.619 --> 01:05:39.059
which means it's Clara's birthday.

1540
01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:40.260
I hope she's still around.

1541
01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:42.179
I haven't seen the end.

1542
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:42.900
No.

1543
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:44.159
We do hope she's.

1544
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:45.300
Oh, I'm not going to say anything.

1545
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:48.659
Although living on the astral plane with the Great Intelligence

1546
01:05:48.659 --> 01:05:50.940
Richard E. Grant and Missy.

1547
01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:51.780
And actually, Emri.

1548
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:52.500
Absolutely.