Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor
Who podcast with the most wonderful and marvellous fans ever to
drop out of the skies.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Nathan. a hovercraft full of eels.
And we are back with Patrick Trouton's 2nd season as the doctor
and today we are covering 2 very, very special stories.
Gentlemen, why are they so special?
Well, was it, uh, you said that it was something like 18 months
ago, we didn't have, uh, we didn't have full stories.
We had 2 out of 12 episodes we're going to discuss today.
We had Enemy of the World Part 3 and we had the Web of Fear Part
one and then in an amazing, amazing turn of events, what are we
saying?
Nine more episodes turned up?
That's right.
It's inconveniently of consecutive stories and 2 of the most
wanted and most loved anticipated.
Yeah, but I mean, which may suggest that maybe we'll be hearing
something at a possible maybe future.
We'll have to sit through the other episodes of the celestial toy
maker one day.
We will re-record a podcast for that.
It'll be 5 hours long and you'll all have to listen to it.
I bet we might need the explicit tag for that one.
We didn't have this for a long time, but we did have Ridge lie.
And of course, one of these special stories is the enemy of the
world.
Hooray.
Yeah, so we had episode three, which is a strange and sort of
uncharacteristic episode.
So it did give, I think, a rather wrong impression of what the
story is.
You know why they kept it, don't you?
No, I was the only one in the archive.
Pamela Ashtipper, there Shelby Fire thing.
It's the 1st episode of Doctor to go from 405 to 625 line, which
was on the mark as, you know, this is a much denser.
We have this on film, don't we?
So is the copy that we've discovered is on film, so we get a
cleaner.
Yes, looking forward to the Blu-ray commentary coming up.
Well, it's not all, they'll never be fine, some of it.
So it is...
But yeah, the 625 line is a huge, huge jump and going along with
selling 2 overseas networks just keeps keeping the format up to
date.
Like weirdly, they do it in the middle of a story.
Yeah, it just when it came online.
So that's why this one was kept because it was as a technical
piece.
It's a line marker.
So it's a little bit like going from standard definition to higher
definition.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And changed a lot of how the production team would approach the
show.
I know we've got a lot to say about the rediscovered episodes and
what this show's about.
So, I do hope that we come back to the Victorian Security Kitchen
and what an amazing comedy series that would have made if Griffin
the Shep, at his own.
I mean, not sure spectacular.
Basically, uh, this is the only story this season, maybe apart
from fury, from the deep, where it's not the doctor being menaced
by people in stupid costumes, in a stupid monster costumes.
Dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang.
Do you know, everyone says that this is a bond.
Do they really?
No, they say that as well.
And it sort of be, certainly the 1st episode is massively like
that.
So you've got the doctor, Jamie and some woman.
Stop it, Victoria.
Terrible woman.
Arrive in Australia of all places at Cape Arrod, which is on the
great Australian bike in Western Australia.
Oh okay.
And it's the year 2018, which we didn't actually know until the
episodes were returned.
Yeah, because there was nothing in the script about that, and it
just appears in a cutaway of the doctor going, oh, when was this
helicopter registered?
right Yeah, there's actually a little taste disk on behind a
picture's head.
There's something else as well.
There's a newspaper or something from last year.
Oh, it's, oh, we can't spoil it, but it's later on when they see
an old newspaper and it says 2017.
So certain things go a bit bonkers, yeah?
Crazy.
So it's at 50s in the future. in 2018. uh in Australia.
It's a very, very, very grim day when they arrive in Australian
miserable, miserable.
When I lived in Western Australia, the weather was just like...
This is very southern. up to two. up to 2 in the afternoon.
Maybe that's why there are so many English expats in Perth.
No, they are anyway.
It's all South Africans and expat English folk. very, very
similitudinous to me.
But we're absolutely in the middle of nowhere.
The doctor decides to throw all of his clothes off except for his
hilarious sort of long Johns comedy long Johns.
And he goes jumping about in the sea.
It's really, it's spectacularly running a man.
Everyone's doing a comedy turn to someone else, aren't they?
You've got even the TARDIS is doing its comedy term and swap
swapping its doors for this episode.
Oh, really?
There's always got to be that nerd moment about the TARDIS.
Yeah, the doors swap around.
And it's Victoria's dressed as Jenny.
Victoria's doing drag actors, pandomime peer drag actors, Jamie.
And doing it better, actually.
The Tamashan and the whole thing.
Yeah, we know we were in for a romp right from the 1st moment
Toby.
The other big 1st is, of course, that this is Barry Letts for the
1st time.
Helicopters.
He's going to be talking to the helicopters. exactly right It's
going to be huge.
It's going to be huge in the early 70s.
But he was an actor and a director before he became a producer.
And so this is him directing.
And as Richard says, helicopters, hover crafts, we get... a giant
chase.
It's like Planet of the Spiners episode thing.
Only entertaining.
And that is the big bomb moment.
It a little bit like bond being chased by the helicopter at the
end of from Russia with love.
Is that?
I'm brushing up for when we abandoned it.
You're right because...
Well, we've got so far we're still up to underwater menace as far
as bond references going, Doctor Who, because the last bond to be
released was, oh, no, we were just on, you only live twice.
Thunderball had been out for a couple of years.
They came out in 65.
You only live twice his 67 release.
This one is broadcast right at the beginning.
So yeah, they...
They've seen volcanos hollowed out and men in Nehru suits with
comedy, middle European accents and ballpates.
And we've had we've had it all.
I love that.
We've had them so much.
That's Roald Dahl.
It is.
Roald Dahl writing the same.
You're talking about repeated plot.
You only live twice as the same script 3 minutes after itself, 3
minutes on, 3 minutes on.
It's like an endless ad for Japanese cigarettes, Japanese cars, a
Japanese whiskey.
I'm just going to go on the record and say, I think it's one of
the worst bond films.
For that really?
I love it because of, well, it's Thunderbirds with racist
accents.
This Doctor Who story improves on every Bond film we've seen, I
think this is probably the most intelligent group we've seen in
Doctor Who in the history of the show. so far.
And so, of course, it's Whitaker.
And it will stay up being clever until very recently in the show's
history.
For me, this is it may not be my full-time favourite, but it's
soundingly smart.
One of the great things about it.
And we have mentioned before, I think.
What is it?
What does it do?
Have you seen this show?
What is it?
It's not Doctor Who, is it?
Well, no.
I mean it's a political thriller.
And Doctor Who will do political thrillers, most notably in a
couple of years time.
I think ambassadors in there has the same kind of field.
Yeah, and from a story by David Whittaker again.
Yeah, he was clearly a politically minded man.
So, and it's a sort of slightly crummy political thriller in the
sense that it is sort of Bondian, but the big conceit is, of
course, that the big Bond villain, Scaramanga, the salamander is
played by Trouton.
And so Trouton does a comedy accent, not really a comedy accent
actually.
It's actually pretty accurate.
It's...
This is just one of the misconceptions about this story.
Because it was missing, everyone thought that trouton's
performance with salamander would have to be comic and pantomime
ish when actually he's quite a scary...
And very charismatic, you know.
Stroke, yeah.
Yeah, like a bomb villain.
Just like a bomb villain.
You hate him, but actually you quite like him as well.
He allows the comedy to be the 2nd and 3rd bananas around him.
There's a lot of expat time lords in this one, aren't there, as
the people supporting it.
We've got Milton Johns.
Yeah, this is the...
George Patrick as the lovely Dennis.
Yes.
Dennis, yeah.
And we've got, can I just mention the greatest girl who should
have been the companion, kick self, Ferrari.
Yeah, so this is a bizarre one too, because we have actually got 2
women in it and that happens very rarely.
So you have Astros Feria, who is Mary Peach, who is sort of
auditioning to be sort of on a black medal.
She was actually up for the dino rig replacement part on the
Avengers.
She was going to be Tara King.
She, well, the name hadn't been formed yet, which I could believe
Brendan, she was on one of only 5 actors in the final row, right?
Yeah, yeah.
She was very, very cool.
Mary John Porter, Mary P.
Anyway.
Yeah, she's got the sort of pair.
She's types of beach girl, isn't it?
zip up, zip up and let it go.
In the wonderful book, who and me, by the way, Barry Letts, where
he talks about Enemy of the World, he does say that the
characterisation of the Outstrinders, by Mary Beach, was a, quote
direct pinch from on a Black man and Diana Ring.
Right, quote.
And does it beautifully, and it's really accurately and suitably
because that's what this show is about for so much this year.
This story is about what's going on in the world of media right
now.
The doctor is sort of initially, is sort of a bit suspicious of
her, and you know, like her goons have been after him sort of
firing at them.
And firing her bizarrely.
They have men, but they do fire...
It is more like a spider, they're scripted in this 1st episode
isn't that good?
But he really, he likes it.
He flirts with her outrageously, actually.
The doctor does, doesn't he?
This is the 1st time we've seen something of the actor. himself
into the role.
What's also amazing about that is several minutes later when he's
being asked to impersonate Salamander.
He turns to Jamie and says, don't you think he's rather good
looking?
You know, it's it's the doctor actually being flirty in that
modern way that modern doctors are flirty with their male
companions as well.
We know our flirtatious time wards are actually able to be with
all their internal whipping wobby bits as well.
Yes, well, as we're recording this, still, listener, death in
heaven has actually gone out today. and Nathan and I have seen it
but Richard has...
No.
So, we're playing...
You know they start ringing...
Yeah, he knows who miss he is, but he doesn't know what happens
next.
No.
I think she turns into Julie Andrews and flies away with talking
umbrella.
Ooh, it's fun, wait.
So, um, so that's that's the one woman is Astrid Ferrier.
And then bizarrely, someone with almost an identical name, Fariah
who is beautiful Carmen Monroe.
She's wonderful.
She's my favourite.
I was going to say she's my favourite girl in Doctor Who so far.
So she's love her.
So straight, so real.
So are we saying meta now instead of trips?
So there.
Isn't she?
Really?
She doesn't come from Doctor Who at all.
She comes with a big screen.
She's salamander's food taster and she has some history with him.
She hates him, but she works with him.
Presumably he's got something on her because we see salamander in
later episodes, you know, doing blackmail and all of that sort of
thing.
But she really dislikes him and she's just strong and fabulous.
It a great performance and she's a black woman and, you know
that's a real rarity. 60s Doctor Who is strong and challenging
educated like that.
Yeah.
She's the 1st black character played by a black actor who actually
has a character.
She's not a mute strong man.
Not a mute, strong man.
And even Jamaica, who I cited earlier, as being a positive step in
terms of the representation of normal white races.
Even he didn't have much character.
He was more of a function.
Now, Korea, this is 50 years in the future.
So no one ever mentions her race inside the story.
It's never treated as an issue, but in a way, that makes it even
more important for the 19th experience.
We had the Chicago riots in the US just a year before fires, deaths
the whole thing, the police getting turned upon.
This was a major thing.
Britain was dealing with the influx of immigrants from the former
colonies.
Star Trek hadn't hit British TV screens, if you mentioned before
Jerry Anderson hadn't cast UFO live action for another 2 years
where you have black British actors in major, important and
beautifully played roles, Dolores Mantes, who've been up for this
part as well, another Jamaican brilliant British actress.
Please keep going, this is I love this story.
Not for, and not for the obvious reasons that we, that we might
actually say, because of the bond film that's clear in the sweet
units, that we need a script.
The actors all nail innocent her performance.
No one, no one's really lazy in this form.
I mean, there are great people.
So the Cliffhanger to episode one has the sort of world-head chief
security guy who is Reuben from Horror Fang Rock. and his name's
Bruce.
Come out old one.
And he, he had common Douglas.
Yeah. and isn't he good?
I hadn't realised it was really good. really good.
And he's got a lovely gruffness and true British, you know
military thing, but you get the sensibility and the truth behind
the characters.
It's like Kreason last...
He talked about last episode of New Bong or Snowman, who gets an
arc where initially you think he's sort of rigid and inflexible
and security-minded and paranoid and that kind of thing.
And then you discover he has a real sort of sense of honour and
loyalty and things.
And Bruce, like it's slightly crumbly done, but Bruce is
eventually persuaded that it's worth investigating whether
Salamand is a bad guy.
Yeah, but the cliffhanger logically and cleanly.
And people always say this about the cliffhangers in this story
where it's very rarely, you know, if someone's tied to a volcano
or, you know, you have to answer an ice warriors question or we'll
suck all the air out of the airlock.
You know, they're very rarely stupid.
Their characters discover something or the game changes slightly.
So the very 1st one of these is, um, Bruce comes in and Giles Kent
kind of forces Giles Kent, who is sort of a bond character.
He's like the previous set of security.
And he's, he's, you know, wants to get the doctor to recruit the
doctor and just sort of finding salamander.
He sends the doctor off, makes him dress a salamander, and then he
comes, the doctor comes in, pretending to be salamander, doing a
crapper version of the accent, you know, when transplating
salamander.
In a turtle Mexican.
And, and, you know, the cliffhanger is wheel brews people, you
know, by this.
And there are lots of cliphangers like that.
There's that cliffhanger where salamander begins to suspect that
there is an impersonator.
And that's with Bruce as well.
You know, Salamander and Bruce are discussing, you know, someone
who looks like you, you know, that's terrifically good to, you
know, the cliffhanger where Mary Peach discovers Swan from the
underground base, more of which in a minute.
Um, you know, Yeah, they're conceptual cliffhanger.
Rather than, as you say, someone tied to the railroad track.
So why are these COVI so interesting?
What's happening in the story that's making all of these people
come together?
Because it's kind of a complex plot.
But it's, I mean, I like a bot.
They blow all their money on the 1st episode, so everything else
is kind of like indoors.
You know, you don't get any big action sequences.
So it's not quite like bond in that sense.
It does just... crazy thing to have done. isn't it?
Well, but they've done it before.
Certainly, you know, Dalek invasion of Earth blows a whole heap of
money in its 1st episode and then, you know, episode 2 is just in
various studios.
So there's a precedent.
But, You know, basically it's a political thriller, salamander is
trying to gain control of the world.
He comes to the world as a kind of um, Saviour, he's developed
some way of making food, uh, like making food crops and that sort
of thing.
But we discovered that he's using treachery and blackmail and all
sorts of things to kind of get his flunkeys into sort of positions
of power.
And so like Jamie and Victoria go to Hungary while the doctor
stays in Australia.
The doctors in Australia the entire, the entire story.
And they got hungry to investigate him and he's blackmailing the
central European zone guy or something like that. and et cetera.
Yeah, trying to get him to replace Denesh, who is George Pro
after.
And so it's all this sort of fun intrigue and things.
You know, people are betraying people.
He's a bond villain because he's really causing earthquakes and
stuff like that in order to get what he wants.
Um, That's sort of basically the thing.
And the thriller thing is fun and it works and that some doctor
who will sort of turn to, you know, in later years.
Yeah.
You know, it's funny you mentioned that it sort of blew its money
in the 1st episode because Barry Letts really wanted that.
The original script was far more complex.
He says in his autobiography that it called for a crowded beach
scene, and he actually picked up a pennant crossover, were crowded
and wrote the word deserves, said.
Now, the thing is, though, the doctor was going to be humped
through the amusement arcades and what happened.
So that was gone.
So he had to figure out something else.
So he got the helicopter.
And it's like, yes, the helicopter will be more expensive, but
we'll get more bang for our buck.
And apparently the BBC said to him, well, that's okay, but you've
got to figure out where the money's coming from somewhere else.
So reworking the script because apparently the scripts were a bit
hit on the ground. reworking the script they came up with.
Episode three, which for the longest time was the episode that
existed, and I'll quote here.
The stuff in the kitchen, for instance, goes on far too long.
It's full of padding and padding shows up at its dullest and a
half hour show.
And isn't it ridiculous that the VIV prisoner, Danish, played by
George Bravta, is held in a corridor rather than in a room.
The whole episode, number 3, is lacking intention.
Nobody is in any real danger except poor Denesh, and we don't know
him well enough to care very much.
It's fine when you see it in isolation, but it actually works a
great relief in the story.
And it's really belittling to a man of his problems to put him in
a corridor.
It's actually quite serious when you see it.
Well, what none of us has mentioned, is Griffin the Chef.
Oh, no, no.
Yeah, yeah.
Who is from Walloo, and perhaps he should never have left
Woolamaloo.
He says, and he's really funny.
So it's good.
It's not true that it's padding.
It is kind of character stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's a variant of light relief after all the other stuff
that's going on, which just increases the tension.
Yeah, yeah.
Whitaker's famous for kind of delaying, you know, where the Daleks
are coming, you know, sometime soon, you know, all of that sort of
thing, we're used to him doing this delaying tactics.
And here, you know, I presume that what we all want is the face
off between the doctor and salamander.
Do you know what I mean?
And that's what we're waiting for.
And the doctor's actually weirdly not doing anything.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's such, it's a contrivance, so they don't
have to do split screen is what I feel about it because the doctor
sits there for about 4 episodes going, no, I refuse to get
involved unless you give me some actual proof that this man is
horrible.
It's like, when?
When do you ever wait for a fruit?
Like, you know, 2 months ago, it's like, I suspect that the
sidemen might still be alive.
I'm going to open up these tombs so 5 people die.
This man is causing famines and killing people.
Well, I, until I see a body?
No, I'm not doing anything, but so strange.
Fortunately, though, while the doctor's sitting in that lovely
caravan, admiring...
You do, you do get playing, playing salamander, and he's
compelling, and you actually kind of forget that, that he's a
doctor, everything is extraordinary.
It's very true.
I was impressed by the strength of this performance of
salamander.
I kind of wish in a way that they'd done a little bit of the
massacre with it and actually just had salamander and had the
doctor missing.
You know, salamander could have even kidnapped the doctor and that
way you don't have to constantly be coming back to the doctor
resetting every 25 minutes to say, no, I must have more proof.
Yes, okay, you've showed me the blood stained knife, but I must
have more proof.
I think that would have been some more interesting and far more
dramatic if Salamander had discovered the doctor earlier and kind
of went, you know, you could cause damage to me, so I'm going to
kidnap you, so you can't pretend to be me.
Yeah, except except you do want to delay that confrontation, you
know, and when the confrontation comes, it is massive and epic and
we'll talk more about it.
But should we move on to the really, truly weird twist?
Oh, God.
So salamander is Patrick Trouton is playing the doctor and he's
also playing salamander, but salamander is playing another
character as well, where he is a survivor of a nuclear war.
And he has a group of like terribly wet English people dressed in
leader clan castles. 11 yellow jumps.
Yeah, really.
He's Rick from The Walking Dead.
I don't know anything about what that even means.
He, young person.
I'm scared of zombies.
He goes down this incredible lift shaft and they have great
miniatures to the lift.
You know, that works really well.
And he finds himself in his face and it turns out that they all
know him as salamander who goes up and scavenges food for them and
that the whole place is sort of full of radiation and they can't
go out.
There's been a giant nuclear war.
Take a drink, David Wishing.
And so they're busy creating the earthquakes and volcanos to
destroy the evil kind of mutant survivors of the human race.
And it's just completely strange and unexpected.
The English people.
And remember we've been in Australia and Hungary.
We haven't been to England, and these people are presumably
underground in Australia, you know.
We haven't been to England at all.
So these are sort of very strange because people and you've got
Colin and Mary, do you know what I mean?
with like these incredibly kind of Colin is amazing.
Colin does a lot of staring wistfully into the middle distance
acting, talking about how lovely it would be to see the surface.
It's like Logans are on 20 years old.
That's all about the talent of Michael York.
And then, and then, you know, um, is Salamander's found out by one
of the people, Swan, who, um, who discovers in one of the food
packages he's brought down at this, that there's a, a, a newspaper
with a story of a liner that's sunk, a holiday liner, and
Salamander explains to him, not everyone's dead.
They're just all evil, scary mutants who have holiday lives.
And the sword just called you guys.
Oh, right, okay, yeah.
So we've just seen this in the Avengers episode The Living Dead
haven't we, Brandon?
Yes, that's very true.
That's very true.
But without the mutants.
Yeah, without the scary zombies, 6 people actually want to be
underground.
With Julian Bluff.
Oh, let by.
Really?
Doctor Who, star and future Doctor Who villain, Julian Glover.
Yeah.
It's a good one, yeah.
So it is, it's strange.
It's like a complete turnabout and it has him going into a
completely different kind of story.
So, and then, you know, everyone sort of defeats and things, but
it really has been like a very, very strange fun runaround that
goes to places and has a story structure completely different from
anything else in this season.
And it's just a massive relief from furry, scaling or metallic
people attacking people on a base this month again.
I don't know.
There could have been this on Tara.
Yes, if only they'd beat us on Tara.
A terrelepts or perhaps.
Oh, it's much more than that because it's Whitaker.
We've got all these other layers.
You know, Salamander is a, um, a villain, not just the bond
thing's obvious, but he's an imperial senator trying to take over
the empire, isn't it?
To me, he's the threat to Rome of and the Senate of a new empire
is Augustus, isn't he?
rising again.
He's depicted as in the United Nations. isn't he?
There's even a shot and have I am I dreaming this?
There's a shot at the United Nations building.
But it's like the zones, like the government zones and stuff and
he's all over.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think you're right.
It is that he's like, um, he's Senator Palpatine.
That's really my background.
He's Senator Palpatine, and they're getting to become the emperor
and take over from the benign Democratic government of the world's
own.
Yeah, except for the fact he's actually got some decent dialogue.
I'm like Senator Palpatine.
He's the only good thing about that entire prequel.
Oh, he's brilliant, but...
Yeah, it is.
But he's really...
And this, and this guy, and this, of course, because it's
Whittaker, and he's so interested in the history of British magic
and mediaeval folklore.
Salamandra was the creature that lived and was born afire and
could destroy and burn with its gaze.
So hence the volcano.
Mm, mm, there's always layers with a little script.
Yeah.
I am Salamander, Stormborn, Father.
That's the one.
Is that another pop culture reference, I think, yeah.
I was actually thinking with salamander's plans and with the
underground culture.
It almost feels like the production team have looked at the
underwater menace and given David Whittaker the same ingredients.
We have this underground culture being led by a mad despot who
actually wants to destroy the world, but unlike Zarov, who just
wants to destroy the world for the scientific achievement.
Salamander wants to rebuild it along his own lines.
And so he has already gone into the business of food production
which is something Zarov was concerned with as well.
Oh, yeah.
It's like he's taken a similar plan to Zarov.
But he would know about, but he's taken a similar plan to Zara, but
thought it through to its logical conclusion.
It's much easier. to save a bunch of people and then say, I am
your leader, and they'll go, yeah, okay, you're our leader, then
try and conquer a bunch of people.
And say I am your leader. very clever, isn't it?
Yeah, it's very clever.
And you know, it's not explicitly spelled out that way.
But when you think about it, it's very cool.
It was this Innis Lloyd's Christmas present, as it's his swan song
story, to Paddy, because Patrick had been saying for so long, if
I'm really getting ground down by this and the shooting schedule
the fact that even the audience is starting to get bored by the
repetition of the plots.
So they've given him, you know, it was talked about, was it not
the beginning that this doctor would be based on Chaplin when they
looked at other archetypes.
This is the great dictator, isn't it?
We've got Adenoid Hinkler playing up against the Wiley Tramp.
Adnoid Hinkler being his character that throws the, the, you know
and Mill books, Brooks Spooks, that beautifully throws around the
globe of the world.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is, this is up there with those big similar
ideas.
And honestly, it is because I know we all sound a bit loving when
we say it.
We can cut it out if you like, but Pat is really, really good in
this.
He really is that level.
He's amazingly good in it.
And this was one in particular when Rob and I were making our way
through and watching.
It's one that neither of us really enjoyed.
You know, I think we both have it about 4 of them.
Oh, overall.
This is before it was recovered.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, it is.
So you was watching it on watching the reconscious.
And again, the recons are very good.
There's some CG in this recon for the whole going down in the tube
sequence.
Really, really well done.
But you weren't getting the, you weren't getting the 5 with the
subtle 2 people.
See, that's why I like records.
Yeah, but when we watched the real thing after it had been
returned, we kind of discussed it.
And yeah, for both of us, our estimation went up to like 7 or 8
out of 10.
It is by no means perfect.
It probably needs a bit of script tightening.
But that's quite, quite common with David Whisaker.
He got such big ideas that how do you cram those into 25 minutes
of television.
But it's such a worthy story.
And I know in these podcasts, I've been defending the fact that
the plots are repeated in this season, but that's okay because
they come with new ideas each time.
This is very, very refreshing and very interesting and very
different. was, yeah.
I'm not sure if I'd say it's my favourite of the season, but it's
definitely very high up there for me.
Look, I mean, I haven't really properly seen Fury from the deep, so
there's every chance that that will take over as my favourite
Doctor Who story when I watch it early this week.
Foreshadowing Deal. don't think it will.
Okay.
But certainly, this is my favourite of the season and it might be
my favourite trout and it is really spectacularly fun.
I mean, it really is, it's something special.
Funny, great characters, you know, interesting plot, demented over
the top, something Doctor Who has never done before.
And Doctor Who has stopped at this point being a show that does
things that it's never done before.
And that's a great shame.
And when you look at where we can only go from this. imagine how
good the dominators is going to be.
Oh, God.
The Dominators is the only fully excellent Doctor Who story that
I've never been volunteered to finish.
I don't know how you can say that. in the future.
Yeah, yeah, it must be good.
I'm sure it'd be better if it had a fish person.
You know, I have been wondering if our listeners out there would
like us to do a commentary or something.
I think a commentary on the dominators, steadily drinking more
sparkling wine could be very interesting.
And then me leaving the room.
That's the reason we get some little feedback on the board.
Because you make threats like that.
Just before we go on, I will say, you know, when you have seen so
much, Doctor Who, even when you're watching stories that you
haven't seen before, there's often very little that surprises you
because you can kind of extrapolate and know what's coming next
but there is something that really shocked me the 1st time
watching this story and that is the sudden tragic and quite
meaningless death of Korea.
It's, that's why.
So, yeah, horror is such a starter character.
It's so brutal.
Well, it doesn't belong, Doctor Who, does it?
It's Swifted Trump film.
But, you know, it just makes you you already dislike Bennick.
He's or a sadistic little bully. great.
But he's also, until that point, he's been quite comedic.
Like when he discovers Faria has betrayed salamander.
He sort of looks up in the middle of the distance and says, Maria.
And I expected him to go on with, I just met.
And then like 5 minutes later, he guns her down, he shoots her in
the back and when we were watching the reason, I actually paused
it and I just, do you think she's, I said to Rob, do you think
she's dead?
And he says, oh, no, no, she'll be all right.
And then, you know, the next bit of the recon is Bennett kicking
her over.
It's like, oh, and it threatens to shoot her again.
She's already dead and he's sort of threatening to shoot her.
And she says something about, you know, only being able to die
once, I think.
And it's really hard.
And he whispers over her over to get the answer and that'd be a
switches, you can't frighten me anymore.
It's really, it's really surprising to see a Doctor Who story.
People blame Eric, same with that kind of thing, but...
Well, but Eric will do, he said, 20 of those in an episode.
No, I don't think it, you know, like it is, you know, I've spoken
negatively about violence and nastiness and stuff in Doctor Who
particularly in season three, but I don't mind it here because it
is it's appropriate to the genre that he's doing.
It's appropriate to the genre and because we care about this
person is actually meaningful.
Yeah, and because she's such a great performer.
I think the doctor's quite upset when he learns that too.
Well, he should be.
She's the only one.
We talk about, you know, this not being part of the Yoohoo realm
but she's also one of the few performers that isn't a little bit
pantomimey, and I don't mean that in a disparaging way.
Doctor Who's always been a little bit children's fiction.
It's been okay to see, you can see why there was so much rub with
Bill Hartmore and the production team, either how he saw the show
going to how they wanted to take it.
This is put each year.
I guess that's why it's interesting, even though it's being so
formulaic, it's still pushing against itself.
This, these moments with this character fire and with Milton
John's and all the rest of it doesn't really belong in Doctor
Who.
But that makes it all the more interesting to watch and for a
modern audience, it's probably the freshest of the season.
Hard to get through.
I think it's hard to get through all those episodes because yeah
he's padded and we keep forgetting.
You're not really meant to watch it as a movie.
It was never made as a movie.
No, this is one of the most Saturday morning cereal.
You meant to have time in between each other, are you?
Although there is a problem this season, which is that it's 4
episodes and then every subsequent one is six.
Yeah, the 6 parts are pretty terrible.
They're pretty they're pretty much all 4 parties, which could be
expanded out.
Because we lost those werewolves of Canfields, didn't we?
Yeah, well, the Duggee Canfields operation where?
Oh yeah, thank God.
Well, I don't know, this was this is rumoured to be the one that
was put together.
No, okay, no, no, no.
All right?
Speaking of Duddy Canfield.
Yeah, don't be careful just directing our next story.
The classic or is it weather?
And...
That's one last out.
Another production team, well.
Yeah, say goodbye to Space Adventure. the last time we did.
That was it.
Maybe we should play it again.
Let's just have a whole lot of just that sound.
Just what we do discuss the story.
Our 2nd baked good of the season, Rod has made us yeti pat
brownies. except we've already eaten them.
Yeti packs.
I didn't think they had a digestive trap.
You said that's why they were square because they're robots. fair
enough.
So the...
It'd have the specific icing as well, didn't it?
Yeah.
It tastes a lot better than that.
So they were they were chocolate brownies with cheesecake.
They were, is that why they were so easy?
That was, I think that's been the best so far.
Yeah, there we go.
There's a recommendation and the recipe will be up on the website
at the time of this episode.
Rich, I believe you're covering with a fear.
Well, I'm diving in there.
Look, there's a lot to say about it, but there's also not much to
say because we're back to formula, but we're also finally getting
to see how formula can be done beautifully.
You've got the double award of, um, Having Douglas Canfield.
So whatever you give him will just work because he's so he's so
smart and logical and yet creative within that.
And it's his favourite realm.
You've got army boys and shooting things.
Because he was in the army.
He was.
He's more happy when he's got a whole lot of blokes in Green Surge
with pointy things and something running at them from the other
end.
Yeah, that's the one.
But look, this is the reboot story.
We've got WCaprio.
We got Derek Sherman on now, a script editor.
This is it.
Goodbye, Ernest Lloyd.
He's left now.
We've got Terence Dix's assistant script editor.
It's his 1st it's our 1st Terence.
Our 1st Terence.
And we've got Peter Bryant, who's in the role for as long as
anybody ever would be in this in this era.
But you've got some really good people working on this.
This is maybe the best target novel of the year.
I think Ian Marty's enemy of the world would have been the best
target novel, but WH Smith when they got it back in the day, which
was an early 80s, it was certainly along.
It went way overcome.
So if you, you know, normally we recommend reading the book, don't
read the enemy of the world paperback.
It makes no sense because of the injudicious cuts that they do to
any and I is such a good writer.
But this one, yeah, this one's worth doing because it's Terence
and it's Terence's 1st script editing job and you get a really
nice little target hole out of it.
What's happened is, interestingly, and we refer to an abominable
snowman that, um, the great intelligence, Oh, Rupert, um, Richard
E. Grant.
Thank you.
I want to say Rupert Everett, because they kind of played as
camply as each other, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah, around Richard E. Grant and covering cobwebs floating
around in space.
The TARNIS is is hauled out of the vortex or is it?
So that it's actually in the vortex when it finds itself being
covered in it is. in spraying on cock with.
Yeah, when we see it from outside, it just seems to be in space.
But you know.
Well, actually, but it's the place of the inhabitants of the great
intelligence.
So it's the astral plane again.
Woo woo.
We're up there.
We'd have a meditate and see if you can find the target.
They'll be up there somewhere.
That's tomorrow.
Um, this is great for all the little moments, the beautiful sets
you know, the London um, London transport were ranging up BBC
furiously demanding their £200 an hour fee because they thought
that they're filmed in the underground.
The sets are so good.
You don't agree?
Well, no, they're spectacular, but everyone is walking on wooden
floors and stuff.
So it's fairly clear just from the quality of the sound.
You know, perhaps the line of transport people haven't watched
television before.
They're probably watching on old TV.
I'm going to say, I actually didn't pick that up.
I thought this was film quality.
67.
It looks good.
It works really well.
And all of that's great.
Oh, the sets, but it's the lighting and the scores.
Well, let's start the very beginning.
You see, um, Travis in, in a much aged makeup with mugging away in
lots of close-ups, some of this extraordinary kioskiro lighting
under Bartok's music, his piece of percussion.
And celeste, um, and strings, um, Sting Cooper Cuse.
It the same Georgia gramophone for the shining in 1980.
So that beautiful piece of Bella Bartop.
And we're on film, I think.
We're on film, and can I just say it's probably for the last film
of the series, we have pure children, expressionism.
The way that's filmed, the close-ups, the right stage.
It's funny they talk about the 30s having been back because this
bills looks like a 1920s 1920s way of shooting.
And then we, before we move on, can't you have really gets where
he's going with this and he's setting it all up.
It's an amazing opening sequence.
It is a bit of a pity about Silverstein, though.
Oh, he's so straight out of the ghetto. a very lazy stereotype.
It's completely, completely.
And so, Travis, just to make it to you, Travis, is your Alan
Quartermain adventurer from Abominable Snowman.
And now he's got ageing makeup because it's 40 years later.
Yeah.
Yeah, and now, you see, the fascinating thing with that is, as
some, when I was younger, I watched, uh, the 1st episode of
Weather Fear more than I watched, Epso 2 Abominable Snowman.
So in my mind, that's what Jack Watley looked like.
When I got around to watching the full reconstruction of the
Abominable Stoneman, There's a lot more of him visually in photos
and I, as I mentioned last week, actually found him quite
handsome.
I had a great new appreciation for the makeup job and the acting
job he does in this.
You think so?
Actually, I think it's really theatre in this and it kind of
stands out as not being not necessarily worse or better.
It was just not being on the same level and acting in the same way
that everybody else. in the studio is he's very stagey.
It works when you've got a lot of blokes dressed up as marks
because they're all kind of doing the same thing, but here you've
got a lot more of the, you know, the realism thing, the army
boys.
I think it kind of stands out as not fitting in.
It's a great idea though, isn't it?
Like the doctor, they come back.
They come back 40 years later, you know, and there he is and he's
got a daughter.
So how, well, it's the 1st time he's come back and met someone.
Yeah, yeah, aside from the monk who...
He might have a bit of else on us because he certainly doesn't
recognise Jamie.
Maybe that's how he's played.
Well, no, no.
I think it works.
I remember thinking this at the time, but it is just that, you
know, it's been 40 years since you've seen Jamie, so he sees a
young person.
There's no way he's going to think it's Jamie because Jamie's now
60 something.
Yeah, I believe he does comment, you know, those 2 young people
look familiar, but I don't know who they are because, yeah, his
brain can't...
And he's never seen the tarts, he says.
You know what I mean?
Like he'd heard about it.
Sure. weirdly, yeah.
And it is, it's the episode where Pat's having a, a little lie
down as well because he's being exploded.
But you've also got some of the best support.
You talk about the young people.
You've got this some of their supporting cast.
In fact, you know, got the template for all future stories
involving this kind of setup.
You've got Anne Travis.
Oh, God, she's great.
And Travis is an archetype, not just for the show.
Well, I mean, she's this sure.
You look at you look at episode 5 when they're pulling apart the
spear and chatting away.
It's almost like, I mean, it's not like, it's almost in the camera
angles, the same as episode 3 of Speed.
Yeah, with Carolina and John.
Well, in fact, they're both they're working on a control device
that has short range that can be used to neutralise the sort of
strange robotic villain thing.
Well, you know, coming up next year, there is one major character
that we're deliberately holding off in a Whittaker style.
I haven't mentioned who this story is famous for introducing.
Exactly.
It wasn't going to be Gene Marsh's brother coming back for
invasion.
It was written for Anne Travis.
She was going to be the repeating character along with Jack
Watley.
Yeah, and it wasn't available.
We'll get to the.
How amazing.
Is this support character woman?
I spent, it feels like 2 years now for moaning how Caroline Ford's
part of the doctor's granddaughter was so poorly served and poorly
you know, is poorly addressed.
But you've got in just the space of a couple of episodes.
You've got Anne Travis completely sounding off against the David
Frost character of the reporter Jawley.
They're all in a bunker.
They all stationed down in the underground.
World War 2 was still a big deal 20 plus years later in the public
mind.
This went out on the 25th anniversary of the Bethnal Green
disaster and over 130 people were killed trying to get out of one
of the underground in a bomb raid.
Right.
So it's, it was really poignant for for the viewers at home.
And they said an claustrophobia of this and is amazing.
Yeah, but I know there's a certain character called Lethbridge
Stewart who appears in this story, but he really doesn't have much
to do.
It's actually the Antrovist, not it, isn't it?
So Anne gets 2 great things.
The one you mentioned where she completely owns surely and calls
him a gutter journalist and talks about his comic strips, reducing
everything to a comic strip.
You know that's all about David Frost.
Fantastic.
And he's terrific.
And he won us opposite of and then sort of comes back towards the
end.
But then the other one is that the well with night.
Yes, when night.
Should we say that Nick Courtney was actually cast as Captain
Knight and David Langdon, David Langdon with the, what else has he
been on?
He's been an Avengers, and he's a lovely sort of, he's the kind of
Hugh, what's his spacey booze from?
Hugh Monomill, his character.
He played a similar part in soaps at the time back then.
But yeah, so Dave Langley was actually cast as Colonel Stewart, as
Colonel Lethbridge, as he was, and the Stewart was added later.
I think the Letterby Stewart, the Scott thing was added simply to
make sense of why Jamie is so sucky to English soldiers.
And my boys got students.
Oh, because you're part of the Scots.
Yeah, and he's wearing a Stuart Tartan on his side. and that's why
Jamie seems to accord him so much. so much of their civility so
much.
It makes no sense to me that Germany is so sweet with the English
soldiers in this.
He should be.
Yes, what is it?
That's right.
Getting these jerk and stabbing them all.
They're killing the lambs for being a bit rubbish.
Anne is amazing.
She was, as you were saying, she also gets that fantastic line of
why are you a scientist?
Why did why?
Yeah, what's a girl, like you're doing a place like this?
Oh, when I was a little girl, I thought I'd be a scientist.
Then I grew up and became a scientist.
You've always got the Batman cows.
I was just coming up.
How amazing would it have been if we'd had her?
Yeah, she's and she's beautiful and she's like smart under
pressure and stuff and she doesn't go hysterical or crazy when her
father gets kidnapped, but yeah, she's in control.
Whereas Lethbridge Stewart.
Her's a bit nuts and wet and pants.
Well, he runs upstairs and gets that great location, common garden
shooting.
This is the 1st and only time you don't like it?
Oh, I think it's I think Canfield cuts it really well.
But the point of it is, it's a massacre.
The only one that comes back, and this is the root future, bring
it here.
It goes and hides at the top of the skip.
That's the only one here.
And then he comes back down, loses it, gets a bit wet. mumbles.
Well, I mean, it's that thing where they wipe out half of the cast
you know, in episode four.
Yeah, but we don't need them anymore.
But can we can we talk about, because the thing that I think
spoils that location thing in episode four, which is clearly the
big set pieces and it's directed.
And do you remember those photos?
They appeared on Facebook, they were like discovered a year or so
ago?
Yeah, there's a the yeti gooping about it, copping down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's that one where the dog comes up to the yeti and kind
of is scared and stuff.
So anyway, so they're in Covent Garden, there's yeti, and they're
redesigned yeti, and weirdly, the redesign is completely
telegraphed because in the 1st episode.
It transmogrifies.
Yeah, and they do a roll back and mix.
The intelligence is able to transmute matter.
Yeah.
So so that's presumably why it makes all those of incredibly crap
control rooms in both of its stories.
No, it gets months to do that.
I think the new yeti look even more stupid than the previous
yeti.
And they've got like, they've got nose beaks, they've got mandual
eyes.
How good do they look in those tunnels?
And how good do they sound?
Yeah, they sound good.
Do you know what that sounds?
Slow down.
It's a Thomas crapper system. from Tooting Beth.
It is.
It's the luminous sound.
Well, I've never been terrified by them before, but...
Yeah, no, they are scary sounding, but gosh, they look stupid and
at this point, and it's the point that I've made before, at this
point, they play space adventurer.
Just in case you missed the point that they're lampooning
themselves.
All of the monsters are interchangeable.
This week, the robots have shaggy things.
You know, like in a few weeks time, they'll be weed, and then in a
couple of weeks time, they'll be back to wearing sort of plum
soles and shiny silver.
This is the one where...
This is the moment they're plugged into your randomiser and just
come up with 4 random ideas.
Yeah, robot, yeti, underground, webby stuff.
Yeah, web shoes in you.
Oh, yeah, we've got the BBC food machine back again.
Hooray.
Yeah, it's it's still getting more of small script action than
Michael Crane's doing.
Yeah, it was kind of cruel, but it's... not mindful.
It's kind of, it's kind of cruel thing that you're right.
It's exactly what it is.
And you think this is...
This is where it's very strange because, I mean, once again, yes
it is the same kind of structure for the story, but I think it
just proves my point that it's not so much the structure of the
story.
It's important.
It is the extra decoration that the script comes with.
We have a collection of interesting and well-developed
characters.
We have, you know, Charlie...
Imagine though, if you had different types of stories with
different types of well-developed characters.
Do you know what I mean?
We kind of get that next year.
Yes, but we don't get it this year and that's really my point.
But I don't think...
Season 6 is as successful as being entertaining as season 5, but
we'll get to that next year, but as I was saying, because we have
these interesting characters, we have an interesting Houdina
element, because in the 1st Yeti story, we knew who the conduit
was.
We knew it would have the same...
I just love saying that.
I spent a lot of time practising.
Yeah.
And we knew that... was controlling Songston.
This time...
This really cool little decor figures.
Which Debbie Watley still has one?
Oh does she?
I was co-hosting a convention last year that Deborah Walling was
at, and one of them was up for auction somewhere.
I mentioned that to her and she said, oh my god, I got one of
those.
So she was controlling the...
And she asked me to look it up online and I did and I showed her
how much it was working.
She said, well, I don't want to sell it, but it's nice to know how
much was it?
Oh, God, that's £6000?
£6000.
Maybe.
Let's get wickling.
You just stick it in the brigadier's pocket.
But yeah, we just don't know who the conduit is.
And for those of you, this, you know, it's a possibility that for
the 1st time, I think, in this podcast, we can say for those of
you who haven't seen it, because you hadn't seen it, Nathan, until
you were watching Boy's time.
There's a possibility.
The end listener, that you don't know who the traitor is.
So I'm not going to mention it.
But when it happened, when it was revealed.
It was going to be rotten.
That's what I think.
I was surprised by who it was, but at the same time, I thought
back over the plot and went, ah, yeah, it can be, it, and I'd also
like to say, I really like John Rollerson in this. who plays
Harold Trawley.
And part of the reason I really like him in this is, dear listen
you may not know this, he was a very short-lived sidekick in the
Avengers.
He is too.
Yeah.
After the original Avengers lineup with Ian Hendry and Patrick
McNee is the co-star.
Doctor Martin.
John Rollerson came in to play Dr. Martin King for 3 leftover
scripts.
Tara to his mate. before they figured out, oh, actually, we can
cast a woman and we don't need to change the script.
And you've heard me say it before that on a Blackman's role was
essentially just written for a man and they crossed it in.
Well, before they did that, they thought, let's have another man
in here.
And it was quite difficult for him on the set because he was a
jobbing actor.
You know, he had had to accept work as the corpse of a dead king
in Shakespeare, who's just dragged out and dropped on stage for
the 1st acts, and that's how he was that's how he was supporting
his family.
So he took the Avengers job, knowing it was only a 3 week gig
knowing he was in this big thing because the Avengers were still
big already, but knowing that he wouldn't be a part of it for too
long.
And I was really disappointed when I saw his revenge and stuff
because he's not really good in it.
But in this, he's great.
And he did have a nice change in luck because it was during this
time he had a 6 year stint on Coronation Street and that is what
he's remembered for.
Nathan, I know we're butting heads on this again, but...
I think this story is the whole based under siege thing in
apopiosis is as good as based under siege gets.
And part of that is because great direction, great writing, great
characterisation.
Great characterisation.
We've got an epiphany in this.
You don't get that very often, Doctor Who.
The reason Letterbridge Stewart is brought back is because he has
a right of passage, he loses those troops, and he's a very
different character in the fight, although he does suggest to the
doctor that he self-sacrifices.
I wish we'd seen a bit more of that in the pertly era.
But there was that moment of where he'd been completely different
and quite manipulative.
Well, he's the red hair and herring.
We're supposed to believe that he's difficult for us to watch it
now.
He's not the villain.
But you're meant to assume that he is, but at the time.
Everyone's the red herring, though.
For a while, you think it's surely, for a while, you think it's
surely, for a while, you think it's true.
Yeah, it's just hands under suspicion.
Yeah.
I don't think that stuff's all that strong.
But I probably agree with you that of the base under siege stories
this year that this is the best one, but it did wear out as well
and I think it's 6 episodes, and I think the yeti are stupid, and
that's a problem.
It's like we said before, it would have made a great call
partner.
Yeah.
And I quite like the end.
You know, the doctor has a plan and Jamie has a plan and they try
and execute them both and Jamie's plan ruins the doctor's plan.
The plan, he said, was to drain the great intelligence, but does
that mean that he was going to absorb it and actually become
omnipotent?
No, no, no.
Hello, carting of the weight.
Yeah.
And when you absorb a gin and tonic, you don't become a gin and
tonic.
We certainly do.
It's depending on what you're doing at all.
I don't know.
It's a curious thing.
It's not really explained.
Isn't it possible that the doctor could have actually taken on
more powers and that's why he was so aggrieved because just
leaving a villain floating up in space.
Well, we've mentioned before that this 2nd doctor is a lot darker
than we might have casually viewed him previously, he's certainly
been manipulative this season.
I think maybe there might have been something going on there.
Perhaps there was a plan to go back to Gallifrey one day.
I shall go back.
Something I have to say was back, but why not?
It was at this point in America, the original X-Men comic series
was still running, but it was very short B to be taken off.
And a feature of that original X-Men comic series was that
Professor Xavier and Magnus Magneto could actually communicate on
the astral plane.
It's been crowded up there, isn't it?
And they would often have discussions on the astral plane.
And, you know, Billy Xavier is not a very nice man.
He actually attacked make this on the Astral plane at various
points and tries to sort of burn out his brain and that kind of
thing.
And, you know, I have to wonder if the writers were, at the very
least, aware of this comic tradition that was now coming out of
the United States because Marvel was getting bigger and bigger in
the states.
But the Marvel stuff was actually picking up on the hippie stuff
that we've been talking about before with Leary.
So that's not necessarily the primary source, although it's a big
part of this whole story.
Yeah, everyone was looking at it.
That's still playing with terms that George Harrison was using it
in conversations and interviews.
These were terms that were very new, but it was certainly peaking
interest.
I think the doctor was actually up to something a lot darker than
any of us realised.
Darker necessarily.
Well, Depends on what he would have done with it.
You wouldn't expect someone to, like, him to actually be after
power, but then again...
He still tend to work out for him surprisingly, maybe he isn't
falling into everything in a way that we're about to discover at
the end of next year.
Perhaps things aren't quite as simple as we finish.
Evans gets a chocolate bar from a vending machine, and it's
Camfields, chocolate bar.
They take a tanner.
They take a 6pence piece.
That machine takes 6 piece.
That's all phased out by now.
Oh, the whole 1975 thing now written.
You were saying something again.
It's can't be 1970. can't be 1975.
The ads are Christmas 1967.
We've got product placement in this one.
Yeah, there's a film starring Sydney Poisier and something, which
is there's... which is okay.
It could be a revival, but there are other things that the actual
London Underground.
And Jamie weirdly now can read these maps even though I've never
seen it underground triangle before.
Yeah, it's no, there's a few things in here that it's definitely
late 60s.
There is not meant to be anything else.
The 40 year thing, it could be vague.
There's a suggestion that the abominable snowman could actually be
in the 20s and not in the 30s.
There's nothing to read.
No one would know what a robot is.
Because the word robots like invented in like 1920, but... by
Taryn Capell, yeah. by Tari Capelle, yeah.
Yeah, it is famous playing.
That's the thing.
Well, I've always been of the opinion that the whole 1975 thing is
easy to work out by the fact that the only person who says it was
40 years ago in 1935 is Travers who's already been shown to be a
bit eccentric and to have a faulty memory.
Well, he thinks he can lose a control sphere behind the sofa or
just his daughter does. something as important as that.
No, no, no, no.
It's the late 60s.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That's the only way to explain the costume choices.
That's when this really happened.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, visually.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
I also think too, Covent Garden is still a cost among this thing
that it stopped by 1970.
They're still flogging fruit and beach when they go up on the...
Again, that's stopped if I said this.
So I actually think that the unit dating controversy is just
ridiculous, really, because what you're arguing about is in what
year did yeti invade the underground and London get evacuated and
your only possible answer.
That would be that never actually happened.
Or it happened on television in 1968.
So the unit stories all happened in the year of transmission, but
they only happened on television because they're not real.
The common serious addresses that...
No, they make fun of it.
Tenant says something about, you know, like he worked the unit as
a scientific advisor in the 70s or was it the 80s, you know, or
something like that.
See, I actually have a theory about it.
But I'm not going to express it now because it revolves around
something, a certain event that happens in certain Tom Baker
story.
So I'm going to wait until we get to that story and then I'm going
to drop it because I've never seen I've never seen anyone else
guessing it's seen to do.
I might be wrong.
I'm going for pyramids of my arms.
Okay, so you live in an envelope.
Well, Brendan is from 1980.
He is not actually from 1983.
Oh, God. friend of the podcast.
Jane Selwood is from 1980.
Yes, he has his often bitch.
In those Andy Pandy pyjamas.
No, I just worked out why you waste those.
Yeah, so, um, it's coming to the end of another podcast.
Just a reminder, Boats, we do now have a regular giveaway
competition with the podcast.
Just like us on Facebook and share this episode, comment on the
episode on the website to be in the running for a target book of
your choice from a selection that we have donated to us by a
friend of the podcast, Tony Galuzo.
It does also count if you follow and retweet us on Twitter and
then comment on our website too.
We'll mention this on the show notes as well, of course.
And just before we go, gentlemen, I'd just like to hear a brief
opinion.
Do you think there's more missing episodes that are coming back
that we don't know about yet?
Uh, we hear things that are being said.
No, no, but yeah, look, there are.
There are rivers, and I don't think you'll get to any trouble
because, you know, there's only 3 of you listening.
There are some Queensland fans who have had Marco Polo for a long
time.
There, yeah, there are other sources and that there are internal
frictions, you know, and the payment thing.
But yeah, look, they are out there.
It's too much.
Let's just apply Occam's razor.
It's too much of a coincidence that the 2 stories that, you know
in the general astralness of fanniness, that the fans most wanted
were weather fear and enemy of the world from the season.
They let, you know, after on the convention set, but these are the
ones they talk about.
They both turn up, they come on, too much.
Of course they're out there.
We just have to hope they come out before we're on dialysis
machines having to watch them in a mirror.
What would you most like?
It's obviously a massacre.
It's such a popular choice in this podcast.
Does that not exist?
It felt like the old 12 episodes of that.
Personally, what I would like to see are the ones that are the
hardest to come to on an audio and the ones that don't necessarily
like you were saying, Brendan, earlier with enemy of the world
didn't really grab you so much as a reconstruction.
But you enrolled, really got it when you watched it.
I said, because you're seeing actors in real time doing doing
stuff with the faces that actors do and voices and all the rest of
it, pariah just blows me away on the screen.
I always loved her as a character in the audio.
That's my 1st love, but there's an audio, but that, no, no, no
she's just Carmen Monroe's just it for me this year.
She's my go to choice if we have to give an award to this season.
It's come on right.
What would I like to see?
the ones that are the most actually the ones that are actually
about the subjects of performance?
So yeah, it's still a massacre.
Anything with an M, actually, mythmakers as well.
Yeah, mythmakers would be something.
I powered the Daleks.
Oh, that's the other one.
Yeah, yeah.
So the one that I want back.
I've got no idea. you know what I mean?
Like there were all sorts of rumours and things, but everything
seems to have dried up and I think it's all closely associated
with the, you know, demise of the classic DVD range.
I don't know, like that probably didn't have to end.
You've got to think that, you know, maybe they had some releases
schedule because they were expecting something and then had to
drop them.
So rather than doing the thing which you would have expected them
to do, which is release special editions of things that had
already been released or whatever.
The thing has just gone away.
So you think it has more to do with the comedy recasting by Cereon
McKellen and Derek Jack of the, in the hit show, Vicious, now
starring Philip Morris and Ian Levine on their Twitter feed.
I think we only got that.
I don't think you need to.
Because everybody knows it.
Yeah, seriously.
He's sadly very public.
Don't cut it, seriously, and keep this in.
It's okay to put it up that everybody is saying this.
It's on Facebook.
People are saying this on Facebook.
No, but on the Doctor Who page, you just say, Philip Morris and
Ian Levine are just a great comic that you are of all time.
I think you can see the kind of characters that are involved in
this and the reason that for certain 12, you know, people might be
holding stuff back.
It's all out there on Facebook easy to read.
Yeah, that's where I think there is something else going on
because the way that the people involved are acting, and in this
case, Philip Morrison, Ian Levine, and their animosity with each
other, I'm really wanting that six-part show to be Rebecca Front
could direct.
No, I just think there has to be more than we know in order for
there to be this croissant between them.
In terms of...
Now, in terms of, in terms of what I'd like to see back, I would
actually, If I could only get one more back, if I could only get
one more.
It would be the macro terror.
Yeah, good choice.
One to have more Ben and Polly.
That's good.
And 2 because as I said last podcast, I think it is the best story
of that season.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I quite like to see Zenia Merton's dance, though, in Marco Polo.
Marco Polo would be amazing.
Yeah.
Let's just let's just...
We want the whole lot.
I want everything for Christmas.
I even want the space pirates back.
I'd love to see the space pirates, actually.
To see it.
It looks amazing.
You could watch it with the sound down.
Right.
Well, on that note, dear listener, we will be back next week
finishing off, season 5 of Doctor Who, we are on the siege by
Seaweed and Foam and Cybermen in uh Fury from the Beach and the
Wheel in Space.
Another David Whittaker story.
Another David Whitt story.
Is it as good as any of the world?
Yeah, maybe.
Come back next weekend by now.
Until then good night.
Good night.
Thank you.
You have been listening to Flight 2 Entirety with Nathan Bottomley
Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.
This episode, Internal Pink Wobbly Bits, was recorded on Sunday
the 9th of November.
The next episode will be released on December 7th.
You can find us online at flighttoentirety.com, collect your
entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.
If the leader of our worlds are in published good summers for all
we have eternal winter.
Uh, Yeah, so, uh, we've got one more episode for season five, which
we will actually be recording.
The day this episode comes out because today is Doctor Who's
Birthday, the day we release this episode in the 25th of November
which means it's Clara's birthday.
I hope she's still around.
I haven't seen the end.
No.
We do hope she's.
Oh, I'm not going to say anything.
Although living on the astral plane with the Great Intelligence
Richard E. Grant and Missy.
And actually, Emri.
Absolutely.