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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:42:47

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast, which really enjoys eating its own

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oil, and we're doing it now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Todd, and I'm Stephen.

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It's 29th of April, 2006, and a daft little tea time science

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fiction program is about to emotionally devastate a whole

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generation of ageing fans.

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Kleenex is at the ready, everyone.

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It's time for a school reunion.

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So, um, Stephen, is this one of the many Doctor Who episodes that

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makes you cry?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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This one reduces me to tears every single time.

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I think I probably start crying 15 minutes in, you know, just in

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anticipation.

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Really?

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Well yeah.

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Really?

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I've got a stone cold dead heart because, you know, I don't cry at

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this anymore.

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Okay.

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You know, let's let's start off with this.

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I think the fact that, you know, Liz is gone.

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We don't have Liz anymore.

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Just seeing her.

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Without her knowing who the doctor is, he's trying to make you

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cry.

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I'm trying to make time cry.

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Yes, listeners, they're looking to react me.

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So yeah, so just for the 1st time that we see her.

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I just think about how wonderful she was.

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God, you fools.

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I'm tearing up as we speak.

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Okay.

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I well up from like the moment she comes on screen.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, I don't.

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It's always the end bit with that my Sarah goodbye, my Sarah Jane

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with the music, you know, that's where it gets me.

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But up to that point.

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The 1st time, obviously, when we 1st saw this, yes.

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Yeah, you know, it was like, oh, all the way through, but now I'm

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sort of, yeah, yeah.

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But I can't distinguish it from my childhood memories of watching

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Sarah Jane Smith and the 4th doctor.

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So that's what's immediately brought to mind.

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And I think that's probably intentionally in terms of the story

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too, but I just sort of get cast back to that.

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And there's a shedding of a tear, I guess, for the time in

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between.

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And obviously what's happened in the meantime as well.

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She was my 1st companion.

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Like I've said before, that my 1st Doctor Who story was Death to

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the Daleks.

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And really the only 2 possible people that they could have brought

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back would have been Joe and Sarah.

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And both of them are on the show for roughly the same time.

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You know, Sarah's there for a bit longer, but both of them are the

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ones that create that female companion dynamic that the new show

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is doing.

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Yes, I was thinking about this the other day.

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I was thinking, who else could they have brought back if they

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couldn't have got Elizabeth Slayton?

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And like you, I thought, you know, Katie Manning as Joe. And I

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just kind of went through everybody else and I thought, who else

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is there?

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I mean, the only other person I really thought of was Tegan, but I

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don't think that character would have worked in this context, it

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would have to be a completely different type of story.

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Yeah, you couldn't sell a story where Tegan was kind of the

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doctor's ex-girlfriend in any way.

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No not at all.

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It would have been a very rocky relationship.

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But also I think it's quite incredible too, the fact that David

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Tennant is like 3 episodes into his reign as the doctor.

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And suddenly here, you know, he's with this ex-companion.

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Like, I was thinking, like, if Eccleston had continued on, how

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would this have played out, you know?

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Would it be just the same thing?

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Like it's, you know, he's a bit older than Tenant, you know?

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and certainly more the age that Tom was when he was 1st the doctor

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with Sarah Jane?

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I don't think it would have had as much emotional depth and

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chemistry.

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Tenet?

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Yeah.

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I mean, Tenant, it's a huge fan.

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And that's obvious from his performance and the way he just smiles

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at her, you know, when she 1st turns up.

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I love the fact that she's just walking down some stairs talking

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to the headmaster.

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It's all quite subtle.

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New fans wouldn't have a clue who she is.

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And so she's just another character.

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For me, it's like I always think about what would new fans be

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thinking about having this old companion in?

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Would they get as emotional as what we get?

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Would they be moved at all?

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I think, though, for new fans, it does shed a light on the

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relationship between the doctor and Rose and the next episode's

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going to do that as well.

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Like it's going to start to interrogate that relationship because

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this is really the height of their relationship this season, isn't

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it?

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And, you know, last week we had them larking about and laughing

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and, you know, running hand in hand and all of that sort of

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thing.

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Like they were very, very close.

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And this kind of interrogates that or puts it in quite a different

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line.

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I think that's true, but also from an outsider's point of view, if

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you're not a YooHoo fan, if you're someone who maybe grew up

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watching Doctor Who decades ago, this sort of like taps into that

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childhood memory.

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And of course, you're going to remember Sarah Jane.

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I think, you know, it's one of the most iconic pairings of classic

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Doctor Who, along with Katie and John as well.

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And I think you're right, Todd, I don't think you can sort of pair

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it with any other old companion because there probably wasn't the

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connection, I guess.

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There's certainly pros in the ratings.

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You know, we're talking about the Hyder Doctor Who in this sort of

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mid 70s period.

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So it had to be, had to be Elizabeth Slayden.

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Both of these companions also investigate things, you know?

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Joe was with unit investigating, Sarah was investigative

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journalist.

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Whereas when you look at the background of so many others, they're

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not the same thing, you know, they don't gives you an in.

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Yeah, it gives you an in.

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I think also, I mean, I agree with you, Stephen, the, um, she's

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the right choice because she doesn't have an appeal just for a

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classic series fan.

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She has an appeal for a viewer of the 70s.

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Like she appeals to the general audience of the 70s.

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If you're going to remember a companion, you're going to remember

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Sarah James Smith.

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She is the Doctor Who companion.

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I think for Russell, probably the iconic pairing is the doctor and

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Joe. And I think it's telling that he cast Billy Piper, who looks

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a bit like Joe and uses the pertweet title sequence, you know, sort

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of revamped as his title sequence.

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I think that that's his pairing.

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And given that he's a little bit older, like he's got a few years

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on me, a couple of years on me.

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The show.

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Yeah.

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But it's very clear that when Russell was watching the show, he

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was imagining that he was Katie or he was Sarah.

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Like that was who he was identifying with, I think.

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Not in drag.

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No.

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I love all the intro stuff when they mention like John Smith

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like...

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Yeah, she says I used to have a friend who went by that name.

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It's so beautiful.

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Just the sheer enthusiasm on tenant's face when he sees her.

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It seems so real.

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I'll have lots of complaints about David Tennant's performance.

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But when he's genuine, when he's showing real emotion, and we'll

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talk more about that next week, probably.

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He's wonderful.

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He's so great.

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His little fanboy heart is exploding.

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Did you know this script was written in a really short time

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right?

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So this is Toby Widhouse's 1st episode, but he wasn't the original

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writer for the story.

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Okay.

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Initially, much like we discussed last week on Tooth and Claw

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Russell got a writer who was new to the show to write a script

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treatment for it with the shopping list, set in in a school, Sarah

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Jane Smith, K9.

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And the writer went to Ray and came back with a script set in an

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army base.

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And it didn't really gel.

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And then they admitted that Doctor Who probably wasn't for them

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and bowed out.

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And so Toby was asked to write this sort of very late stage and

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was delivered very quickly, but it's still kind of brilliant.

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Yeah, I think it's great It absolutely is because I don't think

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the plot really matters here.

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It's the emotional heartbeats of the story that are the most

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important.

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For me, and I think for most other viewers as well.

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And I've said this before, I think, but for me, I don't really

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care about the bliz-bloss pop mechanics and how it all sort of

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makes sense as long as it has that emotional reward and payoff.

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And having Sarah Jane Smith meet the doctor again is like that's

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it as a sentence.

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That's all you need for a Doctor Who episode to work.

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Who cares about the plot?

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Exactly.

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No, I'm very much in agreement with you on that.

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I think I've always enjoyed storytelling, not just Doctor Who

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storytelling in general, which I feel an emotional connection or

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resonance with.

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And that's probably why I still, you know, 10, 15 years later

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enjoy Russell's Doctor Who more than anything that's come after

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it.

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I actually think it does a really deaf job of balancing the

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demands of being a Doctor Who episode with that emotional plot.

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And, you know, sometimes they think it would be nice to have a

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break from aliens and silly things and just do an episode like

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this without the subplot.

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And sometimes you have episodes like this with a very rudimentary

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subplot, like Boomtown or Power of 3.

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But this one, I think, gets it right.

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So you're talking about the acrylic.

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Yeah.

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Subplot.

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Yeah.

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It's interesting because I always felt that that was the weakest

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part of this story.

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And I've never considered this story better than a 7 out of 10

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which might shock some people.

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But coming back and watching this season, which I think I've

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commented already that this is my least favourite of the 1st 5

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years of Doctor Who.

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It's quite interesting because I actually liked this more.

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And the Critain was the weakness in this story.

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But like I've previously commented how I sort of edit out things

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in my head and can't remember things, there was certainly a lot

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more dialogue that I suddenly wasn't remembering going, okay, so

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they actually do explain this.

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So I actually enjoyed that a lot more.

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So actually this has gone up from a 7 to an 8 for me.

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I think Anthony Stewart head is just delicious in his role as the

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headmaster.

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I mean, you know, that 1st sequence where he takes that girl into

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that room and then eats devours her.

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I'm like, remember, because you're going, 0 my goodness.

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The little orphan girl.

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Oh, the little orphan girl.

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No one to miss you.

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I mean, the Krillatain, like, you know, they don't really care

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very much to keep everything sort of hush hush.

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I mean, Kenny walks in and looks down and like that one

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teacher...

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Under the desk and then he's not.

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It's sort of like we'll just go away.

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Like, it's like, you could have eaten him at this point.

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And then that exploding woman, like she does that, you know?

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Like, it's so funny.

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It is so funny, but it's sort of like, well, we're not really

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hushing it up and we're not going to do away with you, Rose.

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We're just going to say, oh, no, don't ring the Amos.

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She just does that, you know?

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It's so paper thin.

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Is that what I mean?

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00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:19.139
But it makes it hilarious.

254
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:23.279
Well, I think Kenny as well. who is the little kid who isn't

255
00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:26.519
eating the krillitain oil because he can't eat chips because he's

256
00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:27.659
on a special diet.

257
00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:30.840
Like you would think that he would be the 1st one that they would

258
00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:34.259
eat, you know, so that is that Russell Fatt shaming?

259
00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.379
constantly fat shaming, Russell.

260
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:38.279
There were things like that.

261
00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:41.220
But I mean, then you've got the counterbalance, which is the big

262
00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:46.379
confrontation between the doctor and the headmaster, the swimming

263
00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:46.679
pool.

264
00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.600
And again, that's just fantastic.

265
00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:54.240
And I love the fact that, again, David Tennant's doctor talks

266
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.799
about, you've got one chance.

267
00:12:55.860 --> 00:13:00.659
And yeah, and Anthony Stewart had just, if it wasn't for him, I

268
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:03.960
think that plot possibly would not hang together as, there

269
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:05.279
wouldn't be as much gravitas to it.

270
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:08.039
I always thought that he would have been a great doctor back in

271
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:08.340
the day.

272
00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:09.960
Like, you know, when he was on Buffy.

273
00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:12.960
I always thought he would be perfect as the doctor. did audition

274
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:13.620
for the TV movie.

275
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:14.580
Oh did he?

276
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.080
Everyone did, though.

277
00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:17.639
Well, he had said everybody, too.

278
00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:19.620
Including Beryl Reed.

279
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:21.840
She would have been amazing.

280
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:23.879
Winter's actually on the DVD.

281
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:24.720
Oh really?

282
00:13:24.779 --> 00:13:25.740
Yeah, I think so.

283
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:29.700
He's certainly having fun doing scenery chewing and being terribly

284
00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:30.539
camp and stuff.

285
00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:31.740
But it works.

286
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:33.840
And I also think the Krillitain actually worked.

287
00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:36.539
They look very cartoonish, but I actually really like them.

288
00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:37.980
Oh, I do too.

289
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:42.360
I think there's one shot of one flying in front of the moon, which

290
00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:43.379
I think is spectacular.

291
00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:47.940
And there's one where they're running down the corridors and the

292
00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:52.080
camera is kind of trying to keep up with them.

293
00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:55.139
You know, they're running down the corridors and they're moving

294
00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:58.559
from floor to ceiling and the camera's going around in a sort of

295
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.080
circular motion, but it's tracking them.

296
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:01.919
It's just behind them.

297
00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:02.700
It's good.

298
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:08.820
Yeah, so for me, that's the aspect of the episode that really did

299
00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:12.179
improve on this watch, which I was really pleased about.

300
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.360
I was never down on it in the 1st place, but what I, what I will

301
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.240
admit is that it is absolutely the subplot, and it's also a

302
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.120
subplot that maybe comes from young adult, or certainly rolled

303
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.480
dark kind of schoolyard, fairy tale, um, genre.

304
00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:26.399
You know, it felt like the witches in many regards.

305
00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:31.200
You know, you have that kind of fairy tale aspect that we see

306
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.120
throughout Doctor Who, but most explicitly here.

307
00:14:33.179 --> 00:14:36.779
This is something that should not exist or probably oughtn't exist

308
00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:40.799
in sort of like the general kind of mood of a Doctor Who story, but

309
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:45.299
it does, and it's great, and it kind of feels like a kid's fairy

310
00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:45.659
tale.

311
00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.480
And again, because that's the subplot.

312
00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:51.000
The real plot is about Sarah J.

313
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.519
Smith and the way in which the doctor companion relationship is

314
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.100
defined and redefined. particularly for a newhu era.

315
00:14:56.220 --> 00:15:00.539
You're totally right about redefining everything's been redefined

316
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:00.779
here.

317
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.019
The relationship between Rose and a doctor is put under a

318
00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:06.899
spotlight because of Sarah Jane Smith, like the missus and the

319
00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:07.259
ex.

320
00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:07.679
Yes.

321
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:13.559
And then working Mickey into the mix and his realisation of who he

322
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.019
is and what he wants and redefining all that.

323
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.500
I mean, you know, throughout the episode, realising like he's the

324
00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:22.740
tin dog, he doesn't want to be the tin dog, and then at the end

325
00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:24.360
you know, can I come on board?

326
00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:25.980
And the face that rose.

327
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:26.220
Yeah.

328
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:28.980
She's such a surly little cow.

329
00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:32.879
You know, he wasn't actually in the original draft of the script.

330
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:34.259
He wasn't in it at all.

331
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:34.799
Oh, really?

332
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:37.019
He was a late edition.

333
00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:38.460
I think he's brilliant in this.

334
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.580
And I think it does give closure to that plot. about him being

335
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:43.080
reluctant to come with a doctor.

336
00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:45.960
So he's not invited in Rose.

337
00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:50.580
He tells the doctor that he can't bear to go with him at the end

338
00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:56.340
of World War 3 and now finally he sort of proved himself by doing

339
00:15:56.340 --> 00:16:00.960
his rescue mission and helping Rose and the doctor here.

340
00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:03.960
And he decides, yeah, you know, like I'm ready to go with you.

341
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:07.799
There's so much growth in this episode for him, from finding all

342
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:13.019
the dead rats, rats, and then looking at the acryletane on the, on

343
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:16.440
the roof and running out of the school and and, you know, being

344
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.440
perhaps part of the character that was in season one.

345
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:24.120
And then, you know, pulling the plug at the end, you know, forming

346
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:28.799
a bond with canine or, you know, stepping up and then realising

347
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:29.759
that he can step up.

348
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:34.679
And I think over the course of this episode and the next two

349
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:37.019
Noel's performance is as good as ever.

350
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.980
Like it really, it really shows such a growth to his character and

351
00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:44.639
really puts a spotlight on the character, I think, of Rose and

352
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.820
perhaps the growth that she doesn't actually have compared to

353
00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:48.000
him.

354
00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:51.539
Although it does give Rose different things to do, you know, like

355
00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:54.960
I think that it helps Rose in that sense, even if it sort of

356
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:58.500
brings up how kind of self-involved chicken bee.

357
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.440
But there is a memo where she's not self-involved.

358
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.259
And this is one of my niggles with his episode is how quickly

359
00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:06.420
Sarah arcs up at Rose.

360
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.299
Like, literally straight away, she is a bitch to her.

361
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:10.319
And I really hate it.

362
00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:15.180
Like, I really hate, the 1st line, like the way in which the

363
00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:18.599
character delivers whatever, the hello or whatever she says to

364
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:19.680
her.

365
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:21.539
Well, there's something about, oh, I can tell you're getting

366
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:21.900
older.

367
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:23.039
Your companions are getting younger.

368
00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:24.960
And it's just like getting younger.

369
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:25.799
Yeah.

370
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.180
I'm not an assistant.

371
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:30.359
And it's like, well, thanks for that, Sarah.

372
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:32.579
But Sarah is always very prickly, fair enough.

373
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.119
But then we have to have this conflict between them, which is all

374
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.599
then just solved over a big name calling thing and lots of

375
00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:41.339
laughter that seems to go on far too long.

376
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:46.019
And failing the Bechdel test at the same time, like it really

377
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:49.500
really ostentatiously failing to do the Bechdel test.

378
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:55.440
I mean, Sarah is just jealous and so they're fighting over a man.

379
00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:59.279
So do you know how they got that laughter?

380
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:00.539
No.

381
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:06.960
Tenant walked in with a false moustache on. which is why Billy

382
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.200
kind of points at him as she's cracking up.

383
00:18:10.259 --> 00:18:11.700
Brilliant.

384
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:12.480
It's great.

385
00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:13.259
The laughter's great.

386
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:16.500
That's a great sequence But what's really good is that when Sarah

387
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.200
mentions the Loch Ness Monster, It's rose that diffuses that

388
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.819
entire situation and begins to laugh.

389
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.680
She could continue on being escalating that argument, but she

390
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:26.220
doesn't.

391
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:27.599
And it's a really great moment for her.

392
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:32.880
So it's just a little thing in the episode that it drags it down a

393
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.359
little bit for me.

394
00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:36.180
It's just a niggle that I kind of go, really, do we have to have

395
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:41.819
this artificial, I can see why, why we're going this way and we're

396
00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:45.900
looking at, you know, the relationship between the doctor and why

397
00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:48.119
he leaves companions behind and it's sort of a lot of

398
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.220
foreshadowing for what's going to come in the future.

399
00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:54.059
For Yoohoo fans, I think, anyway, to sort of, well, you need to

400
00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:54.779
think about this, guys.

401
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.660
They're not going to be around forever and why would that be?

402
00:18:57.720 --> 00:18:59.819
It could have been a lot darker, you know.

403
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:04.619
Apparently in one of the early drafts of the script, Sarah was

404
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.559
written as being a recovering alcoholic.

405
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:09.720
That wouldn't have worked.

406
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:11.759
But Liz said no.

407
00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:12.900
Thank God.

408
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:13.619
Exactly.

409
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.259
It's the wrong tone for Doctor Who.

410
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.240
Yeah, absolutely. too dark, far too dark.

411
00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:21.539
Yeah, but I also think like within the mechanics of the story as

412
00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:26.579
well, you needed to have that scene between Sarah Jane and Rose

413
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:29.339
not just obviously in terms of the exploration and the definition

414
00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:32.039
and the redefinition of the companion, but in the way in which

415
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.680
like there's 3 really nice pairings in this story.

416
00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:37.559
One of them is Elizabeth Slayton and Billy Piper.

417
00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:42.480
I think Noel Clark, as Mickey and K9 are kind of like the tin dog

418
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:42.960
if you like.

419
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:46.740
And then you have David Tennant with that, as you said, Todd

420
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:49.740
before that incredible scene, with Anthony Head.

421
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.619
So I think in terms of the way in which the story is constructed

422
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:55.319
as well, there's those lovely 3 pairings that work together too.

423
00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:59.759
I think that argument serves another really important purpose as

424
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:05.940
well, because we've had past Doctor Who episodes from the classic

425
00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:10.440
series hinted at, and last week we had a reference to Jamie

426
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:11.400
McCrimon.

427
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:15.839
But this is the 1st acknowledgement that the classic series

428
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.599
happened. in this continuity.

429
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:23.579
And so, yeah, you know, they've been very, very careful

430
00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:28.380
particularly in series one, not to make the show into a sort of

431
00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:33.180
train spotting show where you needed a knowledge of 26 seasons.

432
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.740
You know, you needed every Jean-Marc Leficier book and every Peter

433
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.880
Hayning book on your shelves in order to be allowed in to enjoy

434
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:42.660
this show.

435
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.240
They very, very definitely don't do that.

436
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:47.279
And here is the 1st time they do it.

437
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:52.440
And I think it's a renewed confidence after their success last

438
00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:52.859
year.

439
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.859
But I still think it's a little bit of a risk.

440
00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:00.480
And I think it's mitigated a bit by Tenant himself being such a

441
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:01.319
fan of the show.

442
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.839
I agree with you, Nathan.

443
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:07.980
I think that, um, like even in his conversation, his his initial

444
00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:11.279
conversation outside the Tartars with Sarah, she goes, you've

445
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:12.779
regenerated and he goes several times.

446
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:15.839
There's this acknowledgement of the history of the show without

447
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.779
necessarily getting too bogged down in it.

448
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.180
And by doing the fight sequence with a list of things.

449
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.960
Again, you're doing it in a funny enough way that we're not saying

450
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.680
well, I had an adventure with...

451
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:29.819
Yeah, I met Bella...

452
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:33.599
Beast of Aguador, and I met Bellau, and Bellau was my best friend

453
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.380
for 5 minutes.

454
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.519
Like, you know what I'm saying.

455
00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:37.440
And I told him to watch out.

456
00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:43.200
Well, in fact, the thing is that a new fan, particularly a young

457
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.259
new fan is going to enjoy Billy's references to previous

458
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:47.099
episodes.

459
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.559
So there's something in it for them.

460
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:55.200
And this is just the ultimate episode for kids to watch with their

461
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.960
parents who remember Doctor Who from the 70s.

462
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:03.539
It's a way for them to bond over a shared love of this new show.

463
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.200
I think it's really, really well judged, but it's certainly not

464
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.420
something they would have attempted at all in the 1st year.

465
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:13.619
Which is the right thing. you know, to keep that continuity away.

466
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:14.759
Talking of which.

467
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:18.720
Of course, Sarah mentions, you know, I thought you died like when

468
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.119
you left me and like you didn't come back for me.

469
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:24.779
Like, I found it really interesting because, like, she got K9 and

470
00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:25.559
K9 and Company.

471
00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:26.759
She was in the 5 doctors.

472
00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:28.559
So she knew that the doctor lived.

473
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:29.579
Yeah.

474
00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:33.299
Like, I know it's a bit of a rewrite, but I'm such an anal

475
00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:37.200
returning fan, sort of like, it really, it's sort of like, well, I

476
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.319
then have to go back and say, well, when you meet a future doctor

477
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.519
and taken out of time, your memory sort of gets sort of muddied

478
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:48.240
you know, when future doctors meet past doctors, I, when they go

479
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.940
back into their time stream, it doesn't quite happen.

480
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.960
Well, let me change the chronology of the show itself.

481
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:57.359
But, you know, even when Sarah left the show.

482
00:22:57.420 --> 00:22:59.700
Like I just kind of accepted it as a fan.

483
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.700
Like, you know, that was it and her time is over and she

484
00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:04.319
recognises that and she moves on.

485
00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:06.779
Like I thought she'd moved on, you know?

486
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:11.339
So to sort of say, you didn't come back to me and I thought you

487
00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:11.880
died.

488
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.640
You know, the fact that she got canine and indicates that he

489
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.059
wasn't dead.

490
00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:15.900
Yeah.

491
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:20.339
I'm sorry, it's just this is why this is not like a 10 out of 10

492
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:24.240
for me. these little niggly things that get to me as a hardcore

493
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:25.799
fan, which I'm sorry, everybody.

494
00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:29.400
You know, I can brush over a lot of things, but, you know, my

495
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:33.240
absolute love for Sarah Jane Smith and Elizabeth Swaden means that

496
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.200
you've got to get it right.

497
00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:36.420
You got to get it you're going to get 101% right.

498
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:40.920
I feel you can read it as, you know, she's living the emotions of

499
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.000
what happened to her and she's saying, I thought you died.

500
00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:48.539
Doesn't really matter that she got canine later.

501
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:49.200
She thought he died.

502
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:50.099
Yeah.

503
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.900
That's that's all that matters.

504
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:55.200
It doesn't matter that she then found out that, you know, he left

505
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:56.039
her a dog.

506
00:23:56.099 --> 00:24:00.779
And then she met, you know, his rather attractive, you know

507
00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:06.900
younger blonder incarnation a few years later because he'd

508
00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:07.559
abandoned her.

509
00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:11.819
I think that he has just chosen to ignore the 5 doctors.

510
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.980
You know, I think that that's what's happened.

511
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.759
And I think that the reason that he's done that is Doctor Who's

512
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.539
attitude to continuity is that it has to be subordinate to the

513
00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:22.920
truth of the story.

514
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:25.559
And I think you can head cannonet.

515
00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:29.099
I think I thought you died probably means, you know, for the 1st

516
00:24:29.099 --> 00:24:32.339
couple of years, and that still works.

517
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:38.039
I think it does show up how kind of terrible the 5 doctors is.

518
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:42.900
Not really because it's doing something else, you know, but, 0 my

519
00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:45.660
god, you know, the doctor meets his granddaughter, what would that

520
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:46.259
be like?

521
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.640
I don't know, we're not interested.

522
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:52.859
You know, the doctor and Sarah meets again after all these years

523
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:57.240
have him like look lasciviously at her across the console room.

524
00:24:57.299 --> 00:24:58.980
It's a bit inappropriate.

525
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:00.539
No, I take both your points.

526
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:01.019
Yes, Jamie.

527
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:02.279
You make a good point about that.

528
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:05.759
I thought your diet can be just more general rather than at that

529
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:06.720
particular point in time.

530
00:25:06.779 --> 00:25:09.660
But there could have been a little throwaway line of, you know

531
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:12.180
then canine turned up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

532
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:13.380
But it gets in the way of the story.

533
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:17.640
I think that the weird and the sort of slightly disappointing

534
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:22.859
thing is, um, that her period of time travelling with the doctor

535
00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:27.660
has had a negative impact on her life that she hasn't been able to

536
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.339
move on that she's on her own.

537
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:34.740
Like, I'm not saying that being single and, you know, having a

538
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:40.079
career and doing exciting things is a failure, but she plays it in

539
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:43.740
this sort of pained way as if it is a bad thing.

540
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:48.480
And I think that it's important in Doctor Who, and I think Russell

541
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:54.660
sometimes gets this ride to have the doctor leave his companions

542
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:56.460
better than when he found them.

543
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:58.559
It's the campsite rule.

544
00:25:58.619 --> 00:25:58.859
Yeah.

545
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.859
Do you know, I think that's, you know, that line, yeah, the most

546
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.559
difficult thing is coping with what happens or rather what doesn't

547
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:05.039
happen next.

548
00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:09.359
I think that's another sort of, well, that's how Russell redefines

549
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.460
that relationship between the doctor and the companion.

550
00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:15.119
It is an allegory, although probably even more than an allegory in

551
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.359
this story are of, you know, the X, you know, the one that you

552
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.160
never sort of get over or whatever the case is.

553
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:25.019
And it's kind of a way that the, to a new audience, I go, I guess

554
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:27.480
you know, the question of, well, what will happen when Rose leaves

555
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.359
the doctor and, you know, what happens when any companion sort of

556
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.819
leaves the show, that's how it's framed initially.

557
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:35.519
But I think you're right, and it's much kinder and nicer to sort

558
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.819
of have the companions as we see later on with Russell for the

559
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:41.519
most part anyway, when they leave, they go on to better things.

560
00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:45.180
And that's only good and right, but you hear that sort of

561
00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:49.019
emotional devastation and heft that comes from seeing what

562
00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:52.200
happened to a character as beloved as Sarah Jane Smith, who was

563
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.799
never able to get on with her life, that's the emotional scarring

564
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.400
that happens to a companion when you leave the doctor and leave

565
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:03.539
the Tartars. that's one of the reasons why, I guess, I moisten up

566
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:06.420
if I can quote Dan, about this story.

567
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:12.119
Both Stephen and yourself, Nathan, have made a really good point.

568
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.180
Perhaps that's why it doesn't sit well with me because I actually

569
00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:17.460
always thought that Sarah would go on to greater and better

570
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:17.880
things.

571
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:22.319
So to see this particular take on it that she feels that she

572
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.099
hasn't, perhaps gets to me and I'm going to go, oh, I don't like

573
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:29.519
that because that's not what I had in my head cannon as to what

574
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:30.240
would have happened to her.

575
00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:34.619
And I think that the idea is that this meeting fixes that.

576
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:36.059
Don't you think?

577
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:40.200
That she goes off, you know, her own series.

578
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:43.680
So she goes off and has her own series, marries that lovely man

579
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.200
Nigel Havers, which is bound to turn out well.

580
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:53.460
And I mean, it does lay the ground for an incredibly successful

581
00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:54.359
spinoff.

582
00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:58.799
And that's the other thing that I love about this so much, that

583
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:05.099
JNT recognised how Sarah would be able to carry a spinoff series

584
00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:06.480
for kids really well.

585
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:11.640
Here it's a harder sell because she's much older and a bit

586
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:12.599
pricklier.

587
00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:17.339
But the Sarah Jane Adventures is spectacular.

588
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.259
Like, I just adore it.

589
00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:22.140
And it's wonderful how great she is in it.

590
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.460
You know what I want to say next.

591
00:28:23.579 --> 00:28:24.180
Sorry.

592
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:26.460
When we're doing the Sarah Jane Adventures, we're not doing the

593
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:28.319
Sarah Jane Adventures podcast.

594
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:30.299
Do it myself.

595
00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:32.819
Nathan, that's a really good point.

596
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:35.279
And again, again, it's sort of to frame it back in terms of the

597
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.160
real world relationship sort of analogy that's been used here.

598
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:39.660
It's that importance of closure.

599
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:41.759
How does Sarah Jane move on after decades?

600
00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:44.279
And we see her move on through the Sarah Jane adventures and, you

601
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:45.420
know, the wonderful life that she has.

602
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.720
It's through that closure that she has to have with the doctor

603
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:49.200
1st.

604
00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:52.140
And maybe that's just another way that Russell sort of frames it

605
00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:56.640
in terms of the companion being kind of like the X. Yeah, I mean

606
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.119
even when we meet her at the beginning, she's becoming the doctor

607
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:01.500
isn't she?

608
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.019
She's investigating strange things somewhere.

609
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.240
And that's clearly what she does.

610
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:10.319
She's doing sort of John Pertwe's doctor's job.

611
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:15.599
And when we next see her in Sarah Jane Adventures, she'll have the

612
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:16.619
Sonic Lipstick.

613
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.440
You know, she'll have a supercomputer and a bass.

614
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:24.299
She'll have her own set, you know, and she has pretty much become

615
00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:27.299
the doctor with her companions and things defending the earth.

616
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.980
And I think it's wonderful.

617
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.420
And I think the show is great.

618
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:33.960
And one of the things that irritates me about Doctor Who criticism

619
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:38.460
is when people dismiss a Doctor Who episode, like this one, perhaps

620
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:42.839
as a Sarah Jane Adventures episode, or that it's too much like

621
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:44.220
Sarah Jane Adventures.

622
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:47.279
And I think that's high praise.

623
00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:49.980
Yes, I think that's a good thing.

624
00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:51.059
It's a reason to watch it.

625
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:52.859
It's a soft pilot, really.

626
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.960
Yes, it does feel like that because one of the sequences I don't

627
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:00.539
particularly like is all the kids on the computers.

628
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:01.980
Like this school has so many computers.

629
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.079
Like even my school doesn't have that many computers.

630
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:06.720
And they just sort of type away at the things doing whatever and

631
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:10.019
it's all, you know, the graphics come up on the screen and I just

632
00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:13.259
don't, I actually don't buy it for one single 2nd as a computer

633
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:14.339
sciences teacher.

634
00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:15.599
That's a computer science teacher.

635
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.779
I don't buy it for a 2nd and I just sit there going, this is so

636
00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:20.940
like we've got no budget.

637
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.240
This is like the Sarah Jane Adventures, like not as not as a bad

638
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:24.480
thing.

639
00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:28.200
But then the director's trying to crossfade and we're trying to

640
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.339
have sweeping music and everything.

641
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:31.200
They're trying to build the tension and they're just sitting there

642
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:32.339
and I'm going, mm-hmm.

643
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:36.539
It looks like a particularly dull double period after lunch

644
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.079
doesn't it?

645
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:38.640
Yes, yes, Nathan.

646
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:43.500
Did you notice how the kids' headphones all miraculously come off

647
00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:46.859
their heads when Mickey pulls the plug?

648
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:48.000
Brilliant.

649
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:59.519
We might move on to the other big component of this episode, which

650
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:00.059
is K9.

651
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.220
I would love to talk about K9.

652
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:06.180
This is, again, another reason why I cry or every time I watch

653
00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:09.359
this episode, it's obviously the bringing back of the nostalgic

654
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.599
element from my childhood, but also just the fate and that loyalty

655
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:17.819
of canine is something that just will never fail to tear me up.

656
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.440
And it kind of stems from an old childhood memory that I have, the

657
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.859
there's 2 myths in the ancient Greek, you know, literature and

658
00:31:25.859 --> 00:31:28.380
myth that always, always bring me to tears.

659
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:32.940
Once Orpheus and Eurydice, but the other comes from the Odyssey

660
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:37.019
and it's the story of Argos, which is Odysseus's loyal hound, who

661
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:39.900
after 20 years waiting for his loyal master to come home.

662
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:44.339
Just holds on to dear life until he can see Odysseus one more time

663
00:31:44.339 --> 00:31:46.619
and at that point he finally gives in to death.

664
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:48.660
And that, oh, my God.

665
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.380
He's so wretched and so flea bitten at the time too.

666
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.500
Like, it's heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking.

667
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:58.259
And which is exactly how we see canine as well.

668
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.720
I mean, we see canine and he's rusted up.

669
00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:02.819
He looks a bit disco as the rose.

670
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:08.579
He looks, you know, he really reminds me of Argos, and I'm

671
00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:10.019
starting to tear up here, so I should stop.

672
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:15.720
But just that sacrifice at the end, it is meant to be a little bit

673
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:18.900
throwaway, I guess, you know, you know, Anthony has that

674
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:21.480
incredible line, forget the shooty dog thing.

675
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:26.700
But it's a show of unbelievable loyalty.

676
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:31.079
I love the bit where he says bad dog and canine counters with

677
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:31.799
affirmative.

678
00:32:31.859 --> 00:32:34.079
I just think it's so wonderful.

679
00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:35.940
He gets to sass the villain.

680
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:41.039
It's Sarah's reaction that sells it, you know, because the doctor

681
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:46.859
drags her out of the exploding building and she's in tears and she

682
00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:48.059
really, really sells it.

683
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.000
I remember a time where I thought, you know, that sort of very

684
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.000
presentational style of acting that you did in Doctor Who in the

685
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.299
70s, that Doctor Who acting, which Sarah was really big on.

686
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.359
And it was kind of like, how is that going to fit into modern

687
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:01.440
television?

688
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:02.940
But she's so great.

689
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.099
She's so great in this.

690
00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:07.559
And when she does, you know, it was just a daft metal dog and

691
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:09.480
she's crying and the doctor's holding her.

692
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:10.319
It's wonderful.

693
00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:13.799
She really, really sells that. as you've just said.

694
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:17.700
And Stephen, I've never knew about the story that you've just told

695
00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:22.140
but it certainly, I was tearing up, thinking about that, relating

696
00:33:22.140 --> 00:33:24.420
it to K9 for the 1st time ever.

697
00:33:24.539 --> 00:33:27.000
So maybe this is when I go back and watch this next time.

698
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.759
I'll be in tears all the way through.

699
00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:32.339
You've broken him.

700
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:36.480
My my cold stone heart is suddenly, you know.

701
00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:37.559
So scoring.

702
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:39.900
But you're right.

703
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:43.980
Elizabeth sells the destruction of canine and the loss of that.

704
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:49.980
But she also sells it when the TARDIS dematerialises and there he

705
00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:50.220
is.

706
00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:55.259
And she kneels down to him and talks about, like, he replaces you

707
00:33:55.259 --> 00:33:55.920
with a new model.

708
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:57.720
And you can see the tears in her eyes.

709
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.960
And at that point, I'm holding holding back tears.

710
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:04.559
She has so many moments in this story that she sells those moments

711
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:05.759
she sells really, really well.

712
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:08.519
There's one moment I don't think she sells at all, which is when

713
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:10.619
she 1st sees the TARDIS, she just looks like.

714
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:12.420
She's been stunned with a taser.

715
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:14.099
Oh, I love that.

716
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:14.820
I love that.

717
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:16.199
I just don't think she sells it.

718
00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:18.480
Normally, I would expect Sarah Jane to sort of look and then make

719
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.300
a reaction, but it's just they've cut to this point where she's

720
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:24.659
already got the reaction and every time I watch it, I just go

721
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:26.760
that's a direct draw fault.

722
00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:27.599
I don't like that shot.

723
00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:28.199
Right.

724
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.960
But Elizabeth just warms up so quickly.

725
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:33.000
Like, it's like she's hardly been away at all.

726
00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:35.940
Well, in fact, I think that that scene that you mentioned where

727
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:41.099
she says he replaces you with a new model is actually that's

728
00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:46.440
actually her properly accepting that he's left and met someone

729
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:47.159
new.

730
00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:51.059
You know, you get a bit of that in the Tartars afterwards, you

731
00:34:51.059 --> 00:34:54.719
know, at the very end where she kind of invites Mickey to join

732
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:55.320
them.

733
00:34:56.340 --> 00:35:01.260
But there's a little smile, a little kind of rueful smile on the

734
00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:02.639
words, you know, he'll do that.

735
00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:06.659
He will replace you with a new model, which I think is really very

736
00:35:06.659 --> 00:35:06.960
nice.

737
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:13.199
And of course, then her final lines are actually a reference to

738
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:13.619
survival.

739
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:14.340
Yes.

740
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:15.300
What does she say?

741
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.760
Come on, we've got work to do.

742
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.119
So that's her becoming the doctor.

743
00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:22.139
Yeah.

744
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:22.920
It really is.

745
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:23.699
It's going to be Russell.

746
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:24.539
Yeah.

747
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:27.900
So would you like to hear some working titles for this story?

748
00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:28.800
Yes.

749
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:34.320
So one of them, which is kind of obvious, was old friends.

750
00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:35.400
Oh yeah.

751
00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:37.860
And the other one was Black Ops.

752
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.179
Oh dear.

753
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:43.260
Obviously a hangover from when it was set in an army pain.

754
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.619
Don't you think it should be Old Friends of Death?

755
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:48.960
With the sting.

756
00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:52.019
I think it should be called the Kryletane conundrum.

757
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.179
Ah, the Krylic.

758
00:35:54.179 --> 00:35:57.480
Everything with a K?

759
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:05.340
I do need to say that Torchwood is also seen on screen, Torchwood

760
00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:07.679
access denied files just...

761
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:08.039
Oh, really?

762
00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:11.579
Yeah, yeah, when Mickey tries to access something early on when

763
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:12.420
he's talking to them.

764
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:16.860
Oh, so maybe Torch would have got in and changed the doctor's

765
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:17.880
buffalo password.

766
00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:22.260
Well, I think this is the Bad Wolf of series 2, right?

767
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.079
So we have continual references, which started in the last episode

768
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:28.920
in Tooth and Claw to Torchwood, which will pay off in the last

769
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:29.880
episode, spoilers.

770
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:33.539
And I think that's why it's occurred or showed up on screen just

771
00:36:33.539 --> 00:36:35.639
in the background there when Mickey is trying to hack the files.

772
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.960
Yes, yes.

773
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:37.679
No I agree with you.

774
00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:40.619
Like, I'm just mentioning that, you know, Torchwood is mentioned

775
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:45.300
just in case in future podcast episodes that I'm not in, that the

776
00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:50.099
team will remember to tell us if Torchwood is mentioned or not.

777
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.960
I'm sure it won't come up again.

778
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:06.420
Todd said that this was his least favourite season of the RTD era

779
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:11.099
but I think famously, Stephen, you think rather differently about

780
00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:11.280
it.

781
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:14.820
It's actually my favourite of all of new who, and it's at this

782
00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:17.519
point that I'll start cowering from the abuse that I'll get for

783
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:17.880
saying that.

784
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:25.860
I'm not commenting What is it that you like about it?

785
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:30.480
There's 2 reasons or main reasons why I think it is the best

786
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.000
series and series of the new series.

787
00:37:33.059 --> 00:37:36.480
First is there's a sort of personal aspect to it as well, and it's

788
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.139
deeply personal, but the more important is that this is what

789
00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:42.119
Doctor Who is in the public imagination.

790
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:43.139
It is David Tennant.

791
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:44.099
It is Billy Piper.

792
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:48.300
We have a number of stories, I guess, that are still remembered

793
00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:49.920
fondly by the general public.

794
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:54.360
It's kind of like the city of death or season 17 of Doctor Who for

795
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:55.679
the not we.

796
00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:58.619
Um, you know, when most people are watching or a lot of people at

797
00:37:58.619 --> 00:38:02.219
least are watching, but it's when Doctor Who penetrate the uh, sort

798
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:06.480
of postmodern post 2000 public consciousness and it sort of really

799
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.699
gets a grip of it and never lets go.

800
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.579
And even now, you know, you talk about Doctor Who with your

801
00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:13.920
colleagues who are not Doctor Who fans.

802
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.360
And they'll talk about David Tennant.

803
00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:16.619
They'll talk about Billy Piper.

804
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:19.500
This is the golden age of new who for me, and I think for many

805
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:21.300
others who are not Doctor Who fans.

806
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.000
I would tend to agree with you on that, Stephen.

807
00:38:24.059 --> 00:38:28.079
I think if you talk to any of your not wee friends.

808
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:29.940
Yeah, have not we friends?

809
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.159
There are only 2 doctors.

810
00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:34.559
There's there's David Tennant.

811
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:35.340
Tom Baker.

812
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:36.059
Yeah, that's it.

813
00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:37.440
And they always top the polls.

814
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:41.639
Like in all of those, what, like the you gov poll?

815
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:44.699
No, actually, Tom was quite low down, wasn't he?

816
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:46.079
I think it was third.

817
00:38:46.139 --> 00:38:52.380
But they make that imprint and it does, possibly to the detriment

818
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:54.719
of the, of the program going on.

819
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:58.440
It overwhelms what people expect it to be.

820
00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:01.079
And when it doesn't fit that mould.

821
00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:03.420
Say Peter Capaldi.

822
00:39:03.659 --> 00:39:08.699
It actually creates a lot of sort of tension and anxiety.

823
00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:11.039
Yes, yes, you're absolutely right.

824
00:39:11.099 --> 00:39:14.099
I mean, you think about the doctor's played by a handsome young

825
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:16.679
lead for the 1st time, I think, in David Tennant.

826
00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:20.760
Billy Piper is, oh, amazing, and obviously looks the part as

827
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:21.599
well.

828
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:25.079
It is the definition of that relationship of that sort of dynamic

829
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:30.119
between the new modern young doctor and the new, you know, up to

830
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.719
date, very sort of contemporary companion as well, and they're

831
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:34.800
both incredibly attractive.

832
00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:36.179
So that doesn't hurt either.

833
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:37.679
Bright young things.

834
00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:38.639
Yeah exactly.

835
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:42.300
And the family audience is tuning in.

836
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:47.400
It's very much, well, as Nathan has pointed out, RTD is a big fan

837
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:49.739
of the 3rd doctor and Joe, and it's the same sort of thing that

838
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:53.760
happened back in season 8, where suddenly the show's ratings went

839
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.000
up.

840
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:55.619
Excellent point.

841
00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:59.219
Because people knew what they were tuning into and their

842
00:39:59.219 --> 00:40:00.480
expectations of getting this.

843
00:40:00.539 --> 00:40:04.860
Well, back then, you know, a family show with regular characters

844
00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:06.840
and situations like invasion.

845
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:11.760
So there was a familiarity and a comfort and here they've got

846
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.139
these likeable leads.

847
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:17.099
They've got the stuff that people liked from the 1st series and

848
00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:20.039
they're tuning in and this is their expectation of Doctor Who has

849
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:20.400
been met.

850
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:22.079
But that's okay.

851
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:23.579
I think Doctor Who can do that.

852
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:27.360
And, you know, here most explicitly in series 2, Doctor Who does a

853
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.119
love story, and I think if there's any kind of genre that will get

854
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:33.059
the uncommitted audience to watch, it will definitely be that.

855
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:35.760
And it doesn't mean that the show is broken forever.

856
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:37.739
It just means that the show does something different for a little

857
00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:38.159
while.

858
00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:41.579
So, you know, with the sex doctor, Colin Baker's doctor, we have

859
00:40:41.579 --> 00:40:43.199
the doctor and the exploration of violence.

860
00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:45.780
I don't know how intentional it is sometimes, but that's very much

861
00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:50.099
a theme and that's what's explored the relationship between, you

862
00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:53.280
know, violence as, I guess, a preoccupation of 80s television and

863
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:54.659
where Doctor Who fits into that.

864
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:58.679
It moves into, you know, McCoy's representation of the doctor

865
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:01.739
being, you know, much more of a schemer and manipulator, and

866
00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:03.840
that's something that maybe we don't see again, and we certainly

867
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.739
didn't see before.

868
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.980
The ninth doctor clearly has PTSD and we sort of work through that

869
00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:10.860
season using that as a theme.

870
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:11.519
Here.

871
00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:15.059
It is the love story and I actually buy into it.

872
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:15.599
I love it.

873
00:41:15.659 --> 00:41:18.059
There's personal reasons for it as well, but I actually think

874
00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:22.440
again, to go back to my main point, people who are not fans will

875
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:26.159
watch this and also, yep, this is resonating, this is relatable

876
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:30.000
this isn't about space corridors and, you know, Zog monsters from

877
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:30.780
the planet Zog.

878
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:35.039
It's about, you know, a love story between 2 people who are, you

879
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:36.360
know, rather fun to watch.

880
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:41.219
And that's why series 2 is such a success, I believe, beyond

881
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:43.920
fandom. not so much within fandom.

882
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:48.059
And I am more than happy to accept that as part of that long, rich

883
00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:50.280
tradition and tapestry of Doctor Who.

884
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:54.179
It's got to be different and new it at each and I think this is

885
00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:57.659
what the new doctor and particularly in series 2 with Billy Piper

886
00:41:57.659 --> 00:41:58.019
delivers.

887
00:41:58.139 --> 00:41:59.940
It's that romantic lead.

888
00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:04.139
I think too, on top of that, and on top of the fact that the 2

889
00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:09.480
leads are just having a great deal of fun, I think that this is

890
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:13.199
the 1st season that goes out after they've seen the reaction to a

891
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.260
previous season and after they've tried to make a season.

892
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:22.380
And I think, for instance, they do a better job with the arc, um, I

893
00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:26.400
think that they have a clear idea of what their regular cast is

894
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:27.179
capable of.

895
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:32.219
They know how much Doctor Whoness, the regular audience is going

896
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:35.760
to tolerate, you know, hence this episode.

897
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:40.860
And so it has some advantages over the 1st series, I think.

898
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:44.340
The 1st series had the advantage of, you know, it's, I think I

899
00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:45.119
said this last week.

900
00:42:45.179 --> 00:42:48.239
It's the stories that all of the writers have been gestating for

901
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:49.980
like 15, 16 years.

902
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.000
Very true.

903
00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:55.559
But this has the advantage of, you know, our 2nd go at it.

904
00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:00.179
Russell had actually pitched this to the BBC.

905
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:03.840
When Jane Tranter approached him in 2003, one of the things he

906
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:08.519
pitched, had it got a 2nd season was then will bring back Sarah

907
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:10.019
Jean and canine.

908
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.280
It was one of his pictures and possibly something she actually

909
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:18.059
hooked onto because she could see he was looking forward that

910
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:20.039
further than series one.

911
00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:22.260
And it might not have happened.

912
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:30.119
Liz famously has said that she said no, initially, because she was

913
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:33.300
worried she was just going to be a throwaway kind of reference to

914
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:37.139
the past cameo character in the story and when she read the script

915
00:43:37.139 --> 00:43:44.340
and realised how much Russell loved her character and what a good

916
00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:46.860
job Toby had done with that.

917
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:50.219
That's when she agreed to come back.

918
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:51.840
That's lovely.

919
00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:53.219
He was beautiful.

920
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:56.159
That, that, that is making me voice.

921
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:05.940
So let's just talk about the plot.

922
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.460
What the Acryletine's grand plan.

923
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:10.380
Yeah, the Krylitain's grand plan.

924
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:15.719
So we're feeding Crillitain oil, explosive Crillitain oil to the

925
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.519
children, we've infiltrated a school disguise as dinner ladies, and

926
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.139
what's our plan, Todd?

927
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:23.219
What are we trying to achieve here?

928
00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:25.860
I don't know, Nathan.

929
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.139
No, no, no, I wrote it down, listeners.

930
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.199
I wrote it down because I never actually I actually never

931
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.340
remembered what it was.

932
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.059
And so that was one of my big bugbears, but they actually did say

933
00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:36.780
what it was.

934
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:39.420
What was, it was given some name, the, the, what?

935
00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:41.760
The scasis, the scasis paradigm.

936
00:44:41.820 --> 00:44:42.539
That's it, yeah.

937
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.519
Actually, I've forgotten what that is again.

938
00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:45.719
Can somebody explain it to me?

939
00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:47.340
Sounds like something from Dark Crystal.

940
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:49.860
No, changing the building blocks of the universe or something?

941
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:51.539
It's block transfer computation?

942
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:52.320
Basically.

943
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:52.860
That's it.

944
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.400
Yes.

945
00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:56.159
And I was so upset that they didn't use block transfer

946
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:56.940
computations.

947
00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:58.079
They should have called it that.

948
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:02.099
You know, it is throwaway, as we have said before.

949
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.460
Todd's looking at me as if he can't believe I've even brought it

950
00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.699
up.

951
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:07.320
Why are we talking about this stupid?

952
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:10.139
No, no, no, it's good. because this is one of the bugbears I had

953
00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:12.780
but then it actually got explained this time when I watched the

954
00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:14.940
episode as opposed to every other time where it was never

955
00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:16.500
explained for some unknown reason.

956
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.800
There's that big confrontation at the end in the computer room.

957
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:24.780
Um, and it's super, super thin, but there is at least an attempt

958
00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:31.800
to bring it into the main themes of the main plot and to even have

959
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:38.880
Sarah tell us what we can learn from their desire to, you know

960
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.320
control reality.

961
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:44.820
And like he offers it to the doctor and he offers it to Sarah, and

962
00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:47.519
she's the one that really tells him, well, no.

963
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:49.199
Well, remember what the offer is.

964
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:55.019
The offer is that you could bring back lots of lost races

965
00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:58.619
including the time lords, so you could reverse the one big great

966
00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:01.139
personal loss that you've had in your life.

967
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:06.059
And Sarah could reverse, you know, the ageing and her loss of the

968
00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:09.719
doctor and all of that sort of disappointment of the past few

969
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.440
years and she's the one who encourages the doctor to accept that

970
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.340
and not to try and get around it, but that's part of what living

971
00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:17.639
is.

972
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:19.380
Yeah, pain and loss to finest.

973
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.480
Everything has its time and everything ends.

974
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:22.019
Yeah.

975
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.579
I love that.

976
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.480
So, I mean, the way that I see it is that I'm not sure if it sort

977
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:30.179
of comes across 100% in David Tennant's performance, but the

978
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:32.400
doctor is meant to be utterly lured by this.

979
00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:36.480
It's, you know, Lucifer and tempting Christ in the desert for 40

980
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.119
days or nights and he's having this moment where it's like, I

981
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:40.440
could, I could undo all of that.

982
00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:45.480
But it's his, um, Okay, I need to stop because I'm tearing up.

983
00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:50.039
Um, But it's his friends, it's his companions who who get who

984
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:53.039
bring the better out of him and remind him that actually that's

985
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:53.519
not the way.

986
00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:56.699
You aren't the lonely god and you never have been because you've

987
00:46:56.699 --> 00:47:00.539
always got us and, you know, that speech that Sarah gives about

988
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:03.059
pain and loss defining us that you just mentioned, Todd, is

989
00:47:03.059 --> 00:47:03.900
glorious.

990
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:06.480
And that's what snaps the doctor back out of it.

991
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.840
I think it's a beautiful way to tie both of those plots together.

992
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:18.300
I've really enjoy discussing this with you all.

993
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.800
I think I'm going to be much more emotional the next time I

994
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:23.579
actually watch this.

995
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:26.940
It's actually going to pull up my heartstrings, all the stuff with

996
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:27.900
Sarah and K9.

997
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:31.739
It already does, but I think I'm going to need a box of tissues

998
00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:36.360
right next to me because I, you guys, one of the joys about doing

999
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.000
this podcast is the fact that I come in with certain opinions.

1000
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:43.139
Put them all out on the table and then you all come back with

1001
00:47:43.139 --> 00:47:45.840
different opinions and it changes, it changes me.

1002
00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:48.539
And so, um, thank you.

1003
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:50.400
And that's and I think that's what's going to happen.

1004
00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:55.079
That's how I feel about this, and this episode is so much better

1005
00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:58.320
already in my rewatch.

1006
00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:00.179
So good grief, it could go up even more.

1007
00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:01.860
Season 2 is rising.

1008
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:04.260
Series 2 is rising, looking.

1009
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:06.840
And it's just a joy to watch Elizabeth Slayton on screen.

1010
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:08.579
I mean, that's the biggest thing from this episode.

1011
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:11.699
I'm so thrilled to hear that, Todd, because in some way that goes

1012
00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:16.440
to maybe thank you and return the favour in the way that you've

1013
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:19.920
helped me to sort of reevaluate the Colin Baker era.

1014
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:23.760
And it was really your views and arguments on FTE that made me

1015
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.840
sort of stop and think to do that.

1016
00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:29.219
So if I'm able in some way to redeem series 2 in your eyes, then

1017
00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:30.840
I'm a very happy man.

1018
00:48:57.900 --> 00:49:00.900
Welder listener, that exploding school sounds like the end of the

1019
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:04.320
episode, so let's head off into the future to give a promising

1020
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.960
young writer the chance to see what he's capable of.

1021
00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:10.079
We'll see you next week for the girl in the fireplace.

1022
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:14.280
In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com

1023
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.880
flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FT

1024
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:18.960
podcast on Twitter.

1025
00:49:19.019 --> 00:49:23.280
You can also find us at our Series 11 Flashcast, Jody

1026
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.760
Interterterra, which is at Jody Interterra.com, Jody Interterra on

1027
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:30.000
Apple Podcasts, and at Jody Interterra on Twitter.

1028
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:33.960
And finally, we can also be heard on Bondfinger, our commentary

1029
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.679
podcast on the James Bond franchise and an increasingly irrelevant

1030
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:39.599
array of other spy films.

1031
00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:42.659
You can find that at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and

1032
00:49:42.659 --> 00:49:45.539
Apple Podcasts, and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

1033
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:47.760
Stephen, where can people find you?

1034
00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:51.900
You can find me on the new to who podcast on Twitter at new to who

1035
00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:53.280
podcast and on Facebook.

1036
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:54.780
Please check us out.

1037
00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:58.500
Until next time, may your systems be improved with new

1038
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:00.900
undetectable hyperlink facilities.

1039
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.179
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1040
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:04.320
See you soon.

1041
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:05.639
Ta-ta.

1042
00:50:05.699 --> 00:50:06.599
Be seeing you.

1043
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:12.960
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd B. Will be Nathan

1044
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:14.880
Bottomley, Stephen B. and James Hellwood.

1045
00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:17.400
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane

1046
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:18.300
Orberg.

1047
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.719
This episode, his little fanboy Hart, was recorded on the 26th of

1048
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:24.539
January 2019 and released on the 31st of March.

1049
00:50:29.099 --> 00:50:33.119
Although we all enjoyed the opening scene of school reunion here

1050
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:36.300
at FTE, we would like to assure you that we do not approve of the

1051
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:39.659
eating of small orphan children, except in cases of moderate to

1052
00:50:39.659 --> 00:50:40.320
extreme hunger.

1053
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:47.099
I was just thinking maybe, maybe the um, episode title for this

1054
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:53.699
for this, um, story should be moistening up to an electric dog or

1055
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:53.940
two.

1056
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:55.559
We're not doing.

1057
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.559
Sorry.

1058
00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:00.840
Yes, keep apologising.

1059
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:04.980
That's appalling.

1060
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:05.940
I'm sorry listeners.

1061
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.900
This episode will never end.

1062
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:15.719
Well, there's been at least one in there.

1063
00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:16.800
No, that's all right.

1064
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:17.519
We allowed to do that.

1065
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:18.719
We're allowed to sleep.

1066
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:21.780
I've been really avoiding that No, I don't care.

1067
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:23.880
All right.

1068
00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:27.599
Are there any, does anyone have a closing statement?

1069
00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:31.320
Well, my closing statement is that I...

1070
00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:33.659
Don't start with my closing statement because I'm going to start

1071
00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:38.940
closing. just want you to launch in with it.

1072
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:42.300
I've really enjoyed discussing this with you.