WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:15:38 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:45.299 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which always remembers to take at least one banana to every party. 2 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:46.679 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:47.759 I'm James. 4 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:48.600 I'm Todd. 5 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:49.500 And I'm Simon. 6 00:00:49.619 --> 00:00:56.039 It's the 51st century and Samsung has just released its 1st range of clockwork Android devices. 7 00:00:56.100 --> 00:01:01.320 Let's see how well that all turns out as we watch The Girl in the Fireplace. 8 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:19.980 So, Stephen Moffat's back. 9 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:39.299 He's already given us a two part story in season one, and here is his first single 45 minute episode, and I've avoided watching this for quite a long time since he's been a showrunner. because I thought coming back to it, I might see a lot more of his tropes, which, you know, he's using probably for the 1st time. 10 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:46.019 And so we've got a cold open, and I have to say, that he really does know how to hook you in. 11 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:46.620 Simon? 12 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.340 Yes, it's almost like we've started with the Cliffhanger to episode three. 13 00:01:50.519 --> 00:02:03.780 Because you've already got a character who we've never met before in the program, who obviously knows who the doctor is, but it's not done in that sort of rubbish way where, oh, yes, I remember meeting the doctor back on the planet Zog in the 52nd century. 14 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:06.959 It's as if we're already well into the story. 15 00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:11.639 And we sort of are because that's what actually happens at the sort of roughly the 3 quarter mark of the episode. 16 00:02:11.699 --> 00:02:16.379 But I too actually hadn't watched it for many, many years. 17 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:17.099 I don't know how long. 18 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:29.699 I sort of been only watching the new series as it's come out and then, you know, the Blu-ray box set, sort of like 12 months behind, kind of like it used to be back in the 70s in Britain where you just get like, you know, a repeat of Genesis of the Daleks or something at Christmas in between the seasons. 19 00:02:29.699 --> 00:02:42.000 But coming back to it after all these years, it really does actually remind me how brilliant Moffatt was and how much we really wanted Moffatt to be the showrunner at the time because, you know, his episodes, I feel it anyway. 20 00:02:42.060 --> 00:02:42.960 I think a lot of people do. 21 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:48.360 His episodes in the Russell T. Davies era are the best, I think, and this is no exception. 22 00:02:48.419 --> 00:02:49.620 In fact, it's probably the best of all of them. 23 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.020 It is really something, I think. 24 00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:56.699 I also hadn't watched it for about 10 years. 25 00:02:56.759 --> 00:03:00.960 And I can never quite work out why I avoid them. 26 00:03:01.020 --> 00:03:12.060 So last week we did school reunion, obviously, and that's one that I put on from time to time, but I really hadn't watched the girl in the fireplace for maybe a decade. 27 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:12.719 I still haven't. 28 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:16.439 James, that's why you're not allowed on the podcast. 29 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:19.259 So you haven't you haven't seen it. 30 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:20.400 I haven't rewatched it. 31 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:21.000 Right. 32 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.539 I noticed, Nathan, you just said you've avoided it. 33 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:27.719 You've avoided this particular episode or just the entire era. 34 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:31.139 No, I tend to avoid the Moffatt ones. 35 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:32.340 And I'm not quite sure why. 36 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:44.099 I think partly because their tone is different to the surrounding episodes and they're notable for not having been rewritten by Russell. 37 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:49.740 So I always imagine they're going to be a little bit less fun than an RTD episode. 38 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:56.219 You know, like I would put school reunion on or New Earth on before I put Girl in the Fireplace on. 39 00:03:56.280 --> 00:04:04.379 But I think there's also a kind of feeling that they're sort of special and I don't want to waste them either. 40 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:10.560 Certainly, I am quite wrong because Girl in the Fireplace is incredibly funny. 41 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:15.840 Like really, really, very clever and funny and super, super enjoyable. 42 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:17.519 But I don't know. 43 00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:21.480 There is a sort of there's a more sombre tone to Moffatt's episodes. 44 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:23.939 It's the same with the empty child and the doctor dancers. 45 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:30.959 You know, I would watch Aliens of London and World War 3 before I would watch those, even though rewatching them. 46 00:04:31.019 --> 00:04:34.079 I'm just astounded by how incredibly good they are. 47 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:42.420 I think the silliness level for me, and that's an argument we've had privately over many years. 48 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:50.040 And I think for me, it's because the silliness is more central to something like aliens of London, certainly something like aliens of London. 49 00:04:50.100 --> 00:05:00.720 Whereas with the Moffat stuff and with Girl in the Fireplace, you've got a lot of sort of silliness that goes on, which is more incidental. 50 00:05:00.779 --> 00:05:08.579 And I think that's perhaps what I like most about it, and it's the flavour of it, which I really, really love. 51 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:16.680 And it's because it is so much more serious, and I don't mean serious, as in deadly serious earnest. 52 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:23.040 I just mean there's more, it just feels like there's more gravity, there's more at stake, even though it's actually just the life of one woman. 53 00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:26.279 It's only the life of one woman who's that's at stake. 54 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:32.220 And there's no talk about, oh, it's going to change the course of history of Madame de Pompadour. just not blah, blah, blah. 55 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.279 That's all irrelevant. literally just the safety of this one person. 56 00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:45.899 But it sort of shows how important one person can be, even though, you know, like it's not, it's not universe shattering. 57 00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:47.819 Yes, but it's important because we like her. 58 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.480 It's not, it's not that old sort of thing that, oh, everyone's lives is important. 59 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:56.339 And that's an important message, an important sort of thing that's been happening in the new series. 60 00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:00.000 It doesn't have to be a king or a queen or an empress for their life to be important. 61 00:06:00.060 --> 00:06:01.379 It can just be an individual. 62 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:06.720 But it's just the scale of it, which is it feels both epic whilst still being intimate. 63 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:10.439 And I think that's an interesting combination, which I don't think there's a formula for. 64 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:12.540 I don't think you can't recreate that. 65 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:18.899 It just, to some extent, happened by accident, but I happen to sort of feel that a lot of the best of Doctor Who actually happens by accident. 66 00:06:19.379 --> 00:06:23.819 The emotional stakes in this episode are incredible. 67 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:29.939 And I think Sapphia Miles is just amazing as Renette, and she's got a great chemistry with David Tennant. 68 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.920 And it really makes me want to have a companion from the past with the doctor. 69 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:40.319 Like, you're not going to get it here, but it's something that the new series hasn't done, and I would love that. 70 00:06:40.379 --> 00:06:47.519 Interestingly though, an alternate version of the ending of this story written by Moffatt was that she would come with them. 71 00:06:47.819 --> 00:06:59.160 It's interesting to the contrast between 2 weeks ago where historical figures, you know, quite august and revered historical figures were kind of poked fun at. 72 00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:00.839 And that was critiqued. 73 00:07:00.899 --> 00:07:05.639 I mean, that wasn't just kind of left unaddressed. 74 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:17.819 It was a problem, but the doctor and Rose were like super dismissive of Queen Victoria, who showed a sort of dignity that sort of surpassed their kind of mockery. 75 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:27.000 Whereas here she is an incredibly impressive person, and not just because of a historical accomplishment, but just because of the way that she interacts with the doctor. 76 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:33.779 They don't make the mistake, which is frequently made, that an historical person is stupid. 77 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:39.060 You know, we're just as intelligent now as we were in the 3rd century BC. 78 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:45.360 It's just that we've got all this stuff to start us off that we know that we can then kind of learn all these other things. 79 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:58.139 And the beauty is that she comes across as a highly intelligent and perceptive person when she understands what Rose is saying about the fact that there's basically this place where all bits of her life are all joined together and it's not like magic. 80 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:00.480 She doesn't accuse it of doing just magic. 81 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:03.959 She sort of just tries to comprehend it and manages to. 82 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:05.100 And I think that's great. 83 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.319 She comes up with that book analogy, doesn't she? 84 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:11.160 Where all the days of her life are like pressed together, like pages in a book. 85 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:17.220 She clearly understands it and is even able to kind of explain it to the audience in a way. 86 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:21.420 And of course, there's the Vulcan mind meld that the doctor does. 87 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.720 Is this his 1st Vulcan mind meld? 88 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:26.160 Well, since the 3 doctors. 89 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:27.360 Yeah, I guess so. 90 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:31.139 And she finds out about him. 91 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.480 He is reading her mind. 92 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.460 Yes, but she wasn't supposed to, was she? 93 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.139 He was not expecting that to happen. 94 00:08:37.259 --> 00:08:37.799 No, that's right. 95 00:08:37.860 --> 00:08:38.820 And she's the one. 96 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:39.299 Yes. 97 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.799 Yes, which adds to her level of, I don't know. 98 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:44.879 Superpower. 99 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:45.960 Complexity. 100 00:08:46.019 --> 00:08:47.940 Intelligence, I should say. 101 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:53.820 And she talks about, you know, so lonely, you know, very lonely childhood. 102 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:56.639 And is this the 1st time that it's really talked about? 103 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:58.799 This is something that Moffat's going to touch on again and again. 104 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:10.379 Yeah, this is a place where he goes to, because this story, a little bit like the doctor dances is very much about who the doctor is and what he's like. 105 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:20.700 And you get the mythic doctor, you know, the doctor who comes with the monsters, the doctor who monsters have nightmares about. 106 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:25.500 You know, Moffat has said that Doctor Who takes place, you know, under your bed. 107 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:27.480 And behind the sofa. 108 00:09:27.539 --> 00:09:38.039 Yeah, yeah, just sort of very much about the role of the doctor and that's something that he will go on to address sort of ad nauseam in his era as showrunner. 109 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:40.980 But it's also about the doctor as a person. 110 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:42.840 Like, what was it like for him growing up? 111 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:47.940 And again, you know, look at listen and he'll do that again. 112 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.659 In fact, he'll make it much more explicit that the doctor is lonely. 113 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.639 Well, it's the fan thing. 114 00:09:53.700 --> 00:09:55.379 It's the fanboy. 115 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:08.039 It's trying to relate to the experience that I think many of us serious fans had as children, and that is that we may not have had very many friends or certainly not very many quote unquote normal friends. 116 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:15.539 And so where we're wanting, that's one of the reasons why I think we gravitated towards Doctor Who and the kind of person he is. 117 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:22.320 And I think Moffat's just remembering that from his own childhood and feeding it into the fact that the doctor had that sort of childhood as well. 118 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:27.360 It's a sort of meta commentary on, you know, the doctor as a character in a TV program. 119 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:30.000 The doctor as the script writer. 120 00:10:36.059 --> 00:10:41.460 So for one terrifying moment, I thought I'd accidentally put the 11th hour DVD in. 121 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:42.539 Why, Nathan? 122 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:48.000 Are you seeing all the different Stephen Moffat tropes in the writing? 123 00:10:48.059 --> 00:10:50.759 That's the biggest thing that I sort of was looking at at this, you know? 124 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:51.960 You know, straight up. 125 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:55.379 It's suddenly 3000 years later and you're on a spaceship. 126 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:56.220 He does that quite often. 127 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:00.960 Like there's some sort of time jump to where the doctor is compared to what's actually going on in things. 128 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:07.740 You've just hit on the fact that the doctor looks under the bed and there's a jump moment and a scare and he does that as well. 129 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:09.899 We've got bananas, we've got doctor dancers. 130 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:10.919 Can I get Simon? 131 00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:12.899 Can I just interrupt the 3000 years later thing? 132 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:24.659 But you notice how in the opening shot, which goes down to where Madame de Pompito is, it starts on the same sort of nebula or Starfield or whatever it is, and goes down to Earth, and then you go back to that after the credits and it goes up to the spaceship. 133 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:26.519 It's really clever, isn't it? 134 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:31.679 You think that it's an opening shot of space and it's the night sky over. 135 00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:33.299 Which of course doesn't actually look like that, but who cares? 136 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:33.779 No, no. 137 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:36.059 And I guess that's something I love. 138 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:43.740 I love the way in which, you know, how does this fireplace in 17th century connect to the 51st century? 139 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.799 Why is she screaming into a fireplace? 140 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:47.639 Yes, yes. 141 00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:48.179 Why is this? 142 00:11:48.240 --> 00:12:02.820 He hooks you in and then it's slowly, the story slowly unravels and you're putting it together at the same time as them, but you're slightly ahead, which is something that I think is very old school Doctor Who, like, Simon, when we were kids, watching the show. 143 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:03.899 Yes, but how fast? 144 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:06.120 Well, I'll come back to what's old school, Dr. Hun just a sec. 145 00:12:06.179 --> 00:12:11.879 But what is that thing about those 1st moments after the credits where the TARDIS arrives and they go out and they have a look? 146 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:14.700 It's so quick, the way everything is summarised. 147 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:15.419 Oh, here we are. 148 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:19.620 This is a fireplace, but there's nothing on the other side because I can see straight out the window and there's nothing there. 149 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:22.799 And then all those things are kind of set up so fast. 150 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:28.860 What makes it feel like a classic episode of Doctor Who is you have a scene with other people? 151 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.320 And then you have the TARDIS materialising. 152 00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:37.679 And I think that, and it happens at the end as well, when the Tatis leaves, where they actually all decide, okay, we're going now. 153 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:44.460 And that, that topping entailing of the episode with that really makes it feel like a classic episode because it's happened so infrequently in the modern era. 154 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:47.279 Because we start from the Tartar Cruise point of view. 155 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:53.700 Like either we're in the TARDIS at the beginning or the TARDIS materializers at the beginning and we start with our crew. 156 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.039 The 1st time we saw that was in the Unquiet Dead. 157 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:56.820 Yeah. 158 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:00.539 And that's when that episode came on when all this was new. 159 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:02.820 It was like, I went, oh, thank goodness. 160 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:04.679 This is the way it's supposed to be. 161 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.379 You start with a scene where there are other people, not the doctor. 162 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:10.080 Then drop the doctor in, then drop the doctor in. 163 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:10.320 Yeah. 164 00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:15.240 It's not a surprise that that's in a Stephen Moffatt episode. 165 00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:34.919 I think Moffatt, more than most writers understands the mechanics of Doctor Who in an obsessive, compulsive kind of way and, you know, revisits these tropes, not just his own tropes, but the tropes of the show and reimagines and reinvents them constantly, especially when he gets control of the show. 166 00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:45.720 And it's one of the things that I find joyous about watching that era of the show is that his grasp of the mechanics of the story. 167 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:49.320 But isn't it wonderful the way the timey whiminess? 168 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:56.580 which is the whole raison d'etre of the story, is actually not overly stupidly complicated. 169 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:00.539 It does actually make sense within the story. 170 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.120 Mere mortals can follow it, not just people like us. 171 00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:09.240 You know, so it's using those tropes, for want of a better word, but in a way that is kind of accessible. 172 00:14:09.299 --> 00:14:20.460 I think that what's interesting is what you said at the beginning, Simon, is that this is clearly someone who's had a relationship with a doctor over a long period of time. 173 00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:24.360 And we see that long-term relationship start. 174 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:36.240 And the fact that the doctor's a time traveller means that he can have this long relationship with someone over many, many years in one episode organically. 175 00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:48.360 It's not like disaster from the planet Tigella who met the doctor in an unseen episode. we actually see that relationship begin Yeah, yeah. 176 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:51.539 It's all it's all just terribly terribly clever. 177 00:14:51.600 --> 00:15:07.559 And I think the other thing that Moffatt does is we think of Doctor Who as a thing that does odd juxtapositions, you know, that makes the mummies into robots, loyalty on the loo in tooting bag. 178 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:08.159 Exactly. 179 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:09.539 That's how we think of Doctor Who. 180 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.039 And Doctor Who wasn't actually always so much like that. 181 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:16.679 But that's our memory of what Doctor Who is for. 182 00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:19.139 And that's what Moffat does here. 183 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:24.419 And it's the image of that horse. on the spaceship that absolutely sells it. 184 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:37.019 And that little bit of dialogue where, you know, Mickey's surprise there's a horse on a spaceship and the doctor comes back with, well, pre-revolutionary France is here on a spaceship, you know, get some perspective. 185 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:45.600 What he's done is crashed this sort of space show into a historical frock drama about Madame de Pompadour. 186 00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:47.940 And it just works incredibly well. 187 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:53.879 It seems like that's the sort of thing Doctor Who always did, even though it probably wasn't. 188 00:15:54.120 --> 00:16:01.799 Just occurred to me also that this is basically his 1st draft of River Song. 189 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.460 Yeah. 190 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:10.440 Like the whole doctor having a relationship with a with a woman over a long period of time, not necessarily in the right order. 191 00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:16.080 Yeah. which he's going to hang whole seasons on. the future. 192 00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:24.179 But this is the 1st time the doctor is someone's imaginary friend when they were a child and that's exactly what he does with Amy in the 11th hour as well. 193 00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:28.019 Yes, I was going to say, like, this explicitly says an imaginary friend. 194 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.399 The raggedy man. 195 00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:31.200 Another trope, you know? 196 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:33.779 And of course, you know, they get to have a snog. 197 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:36.419 This is our 1st proper snog for the doctor, I think. 198 00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:37.139 I think so. 199 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:46.379 Ah, that's an interesting comment, especially because I've just listened to the end of the 1st season podcast. 200 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.759 Yeah, so podcast when you're arguing, discussing the kiss. 201 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:53.580 So sucking the yellow goo out of it, whatever it was. 202 00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:54.179 Yeah. 203 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.580 So, like on one level, that was a science fiction kiss. 204 00:16:56.700 --> 00:17:00.240 But on the other level, what about the kisses in the telly movie? 205 00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:01.559 of which there are at least two? 206 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:03.720 Oh, yeah, but he there's proper snocking. 207 00:17:03.779 --> 00:17:04.920 I was watching David Tennant. 208 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.920 He's doing, he's getting properly into it in a way that former mechanics. 209 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.740 Is it only in the bedroom when she's an adult for the 1st time? 210 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.279 Yeah. 211 00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:12.240 She kisses him. 212 00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:13.799 No, but he's into it. 213 00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:14.880 He kisses back. 214 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:15.119 Yeah. 215 00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:16.920 I had it on freeze frame. 216 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.200 I was slow motioning my way through that, Simon. 217 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:20.160 That's not necessary. 218 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:21.359 No, I'm not... 219 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.579 You're saying that she's instigating the kiss. 220 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:24.359 Is that what you're saying? 221 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:24.839 Exactly. 222 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:29.160 And that's exactly when Rose is possessed by Cassandra in New Earth. 223 00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:33.839 She leans in and kisses him and he just lets it happen rather than recoiling. 224 00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:35.460 Yeah, he sort of kisses back a little bit. 225 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:36.660 But it's more the reaction. 226 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.700 He loves it as a sense of, yeah, still got it. 227 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:39.599 He knew it. 228 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:41.819 And he's kind of, it's kind of happened the same sort of deal here. 229 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:46.740 So I don't think the doctor is a character who goes off actively kissing people if I... 230 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:47.279 No, no, no. 231 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:49.440 I think that this is up another level for the doctor. 232 00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:52.440 But I think if we are accepting that this is going to happen in the program. 233 00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:59.099 I think it can work here in the same way that it can work later with River song and so on, because she's not actually the companion. 234 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.400 I think when it's a bit problematic is when it is the companion. 235 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.640 And I think that's why there was a bit of an issue with the rose moment. 236 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:07.200 Yeah, season one. 237 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:15.180 But it's because the character of Renette is so is a character that keeps recurring throughout the program. 238 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:21.359 Every now and again we get whether it's, you know, Dr. Todd in Kinder or even someone like Astrid Ferrier in Enemy of the World. 239 00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:22.799 It's Maker. 240 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:24.599 No, no, not, no, not gonna make it. 241 00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:26.519 But it doesn't really happen in the heart and all era. 242 00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:31.980 It's sort of more that sort of Davis era onwards, but it's a mature aged woman who's not a girl. 243 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.019 Most of the companions are girls. 244 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:42.539 We get it from time to time when they're not a girl, whether it's Barbara or Romana or Dr. Shaw, depending on how you define those people, but mainly they're kind of kids, right? 245 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:47.039 And we've always hankered for these characters, like the women in stones of blood. 246 00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:50.279 We love them and they're fantastic, but they're only there just for that one story. 247 00:18:50.339 --> 00:19:05.099 And in each case, the doctor seems like he forms a more mature relationship with that person that isn't on the same level as even Sarah and Harry or Lilo, certainly not Tegan and Nista and Andrik. 248 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:12.359 Certainly the companion as child analogy really is very evident in early Davidson. 249 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.700 I mean, Nyssa and Adrick. 250 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:35.640 I think Matthew Waterhouse brings this up in his autobiography, when he's recording a commentary, he talks about how he flashed back 30 years and he and Sarah Sutton were the kids and Davidson and Janet Fielding were the sort of important adults having a serious adult conversation. 251 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.940 It's explicitly in dialogue in Four to Doomsday. 252 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.180 Remember, the doctor says to Persuasion, you know what children are like. 253 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:48.779 And he says, I don't as it happens. but he's talking about Nissa and Adric. 254 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.460 They are definitely children. 255 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:51.539 And I know what you mean. 256 00:19:51.599 --> 00:20:00.119 There is, you know, Doctor Who's been reluctant to have a more mature female companion, arguably, I guess, Donna, who is. 257 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.019 Yes, Donna is, and it works terrifically well. 258 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:08.460 We know that Evelyn works very well on audio with... 259 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:09.059 Yeah, yeah. 260 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.500 They're a sort of person that he can have a proper relationship with. 261 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.200 And I think Renette at the time that they kiss is 23. 262 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.559 It's the 1st time that he meets her as an adult. 263 00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:29.400 But by the end of it, she's what, 37, like she's a similar age to how the doctor looks, and she's not in awe of him. 264 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:35.880 They're very much equals, and I think that makes the relationship seem more credible. 265 00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:37.319 And less groomy. 266 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:38.339 Yeah. 267 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.500 I mean, there are 3 occasions. 268 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:49.920 This is the 1st of 3 occasions where the doctor meets someone as a child who will become important to him in his later life. 269 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:54.059 And so that's Amy, like Amelia Pond. 270 00:20:54.119 --> 00:21:01.799 And there was, I think, around about season eight, I think, there was a Clara in the playground. 271 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:04.079 Clara in the playground when she was a little girl. 272 00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:08.700 And I think by the 3rd time I started to think actually... 273 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.099 Yes, I would very much like never to see this again. 274 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:17.640 Yes, but at least he doesn't form any kind of romantic relationship with him or anything that could be said to be a romantic relationship. 275 00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:26.640 The other thing is that in the context of being in the Tartars being the Tartars team, is the doctor is the one responsible for the more. 276 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:28.980 So it is a kind of a duty of care. 277 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:35.759 There is a, yes, there is a certain level of that which you could read into it, which makes it that little bit icky, if something like that. 278 00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:36.839 Yeah. 279 00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:38.700 It's an inappropriate workplace relationship. 280 00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:39.539 Exactly that. 281 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:40.019 Yeah, yeah. 282 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:49.500 I think it's really interesting that over the last 3 weeks, in particular, we've had this bond between the doctor and Rose, like their boyfriend and girlfriend very much so. 283 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:55.440 And last week, you know, they threw Sarah into the mix to sort of shake up this notion that is this the case. 284 00:21:55.500 --> 00:22:10.140 And because Moffatt's writing this week, like the doctor is with Renette, like a boyfriend, girlfriend thing, whereas Rose is much more, she doesn't seem as phased as what she has in the past, like she's with Mickey and they're off on their own little thing. 285 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.539 And she's got words to say to Renette. 286 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:21.119 But it's interesting just the way he writes it. as as intense a bond, like in tooth and claw, you know, how they're very much together. 287 00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:22.680 Whereas here, I don't get that. 288 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:24.660 You don't get a sense that she's jealous. 289 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:32.460 I think that that comes from Mickey's dialogue where he is kind of ribbing rose about what the doctors like. 290 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:39.539 You know, last week it was Sarah Jane, a Cleopatra, you know, it's something that the doctor seems to do. 291 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:47.759 But I don't think Moffatt is interested in pursuing that relationship between the doctor and Rose. 292 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.940 And Rose spends pretty much all of her time with Mickey. 293 00:22:51.000 --> 00:23:07.140 And I think that because Moffatt is a writer of such stature, RTD doesn't rewrite him, if there's something that is going on in the series as a whole, that Moffatt doesn't want to address, he just gets to leave it alone. 294 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.640 It doesn't need to go in that week. 295 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:17.940 So, you know, initially, in the early scripting stage of the season, this was planned to be episode two. 296 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.079 Oh, okay. 297 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:47.220 And so a lot of what we're talking about eventuated because of its place in the season, I think. when once you decide to put it in episode four, mainly for production reasons, because it's so complex, it makes sense because you've got them being flirty, then, you know, she meets Sarah Jane and it makes her rethink her relationship with him and then her boyfriend. 298 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:52.680 Well, the ex-boyfriend comes along and is there. 299 00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:55.559 So it sort of shows the relationship in flux. 300 00:23:55.619 --> 00:24:00.539 But isn't it so refreshing not to have her absolutely besotted by the doctor? 301 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:06.720 I think it would have been bad to have jealousy again this week after last week's episode. 302 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:26.519 And I do think whether it's deliberate or inadvertent, Like having an episode where the doctor basically abandons Rose and Mickey on a 51st century spaceship in order to ride a white horse off and rescue his new girlfriend, you know? 303 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.039 So you know that horse? 304 00:24:29.099 --> 00:24:30.299 Arthur. 305 00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:36.240 That's the same horse that turns into a zygon and day of the doctor. recurring actor. 306 00:24:36.299 --> 00:24:37.019 A horse with a career. 307 00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:41.039 Maybe it was already a zigon in that. 308 00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:49.319 I remember, because I think there's quite a good commentary on this episode with Noel Clark and Stephen Moffatt. 309 00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:52.380 They used to release commentary podcasts. 310 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:57.839 It must be where we got the idea from during early series of the new series. 311 00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:09.480 And Moffatt says that the scene where he bursts through the mirror on a white horse that Russell actually came to him and said, I think we have to lose that scene for budgetary reasons. 312 00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:19.019 And he described himself chucking the most epic hissy food. in Christendom or something along those lines. 313 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:20.940 And it had to be there. 314 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:25.740 It's the doctor is a romantic hero making a grand giant, romantic gesture. 315 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:30.779 The scene itself as realised is not very good. 316 00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:32.579 Do you think? 317 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.619 Yeah, I don't think it's the best that it can be. 318 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:38.579 I mean, there's a little bit of the CGI, you can sort of, is a bit visible, should we? 319 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.940 It's all composited together and he moves in a sort of slightly odd way. 320 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:51.660 It doesn't quite work, but certainly attempting to do it was much better than kind of writing around it or having him sort of roll back and mix into the ballroom or something. 321 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:54.059 I think the realisation that a frog on a chair is worse. 322 00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:55.920 Oh, no, that was a real puppet. 323 00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:58.619 That was like a metabolist. spider. 324 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.059 Do not criticise that. 325 00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:03.779 It would have only been better if it had been Kermit. 326 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:12.359 Well, let's just say the problem I have with the sequence of him leaping the horse jumping through the mirror is not the horse, the mirror, or the CGI, but the music. 327 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:19.859 So that's the thing that was the Murraygold is comparatively restrained throughout the episode, apart from that sequence. 328 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:21.660 But I mean, that is the hero moment. 329 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:30.119 I mean, part of Murray's brief, I think, is to, you know, leave no Aristea unturned in being absolutely kind of bombastic. 330 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:31.259 Oh, I have no doubt. 331 00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:32.220 I just don't like it. 332 00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:43.619 Mickey and Rose. 333 00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:44.160 Yep. 334 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:50.339 I really enjoy Noel Clark's performance in this, the growth in Mickey, the joy it. 335 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.259 I got a spaceship on the 1st time round. 336 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.400 It looks so realistic. 337 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:54.900 Oh, yes, that is hilarious. 338 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.700 But that's also there for all the people. 339 00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:58.920 It like the Dalek going up the stairs in remembrance of the Daleks. 340 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.380 It's saying, look, doctor's not crappy anymore. 341 00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:08.400 Yeah, and then they get, you know, they get their big guns and investigate the spaceship. 342 00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:14.700 Well, I mean, let's talk about that plot that they have together on the spaceship while the doctors off. 343 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.920 Matter de pompering. 344 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:17.519 Yeah, yeah. 345 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:18.599 So to speak. 346 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:30.779 Well, I think it's just great to see to see him investigating things and wanting to know what's going on and the dynamic between him and Billy Piper and how different it is from the 1st season. 347 00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:34.500 In fact, it's even different from the end of the last episode, isn't it? 348 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:43.019 Where she's visibly annoyed that he's been invited onto the TARDIS with them, but that's been completely dropped, I think, for this episode. 349 00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:45.960 And I think that's a good thing. 350 00:27:46.019 --> 00:28:04.380 I think it's also, it's indicative of Moffatt's approach to stories in Doctor Who, which is that he never wants one story to pick up where another one has left off and he deliberately does that so that you can slot big finish adventures in between them. 351 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.559 You know, that's his raison d'etre for that sort of thing. 352 00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:19.680 So he's, I think he said in the confidential in interviews around there, he deliberately head cannoned that as they're having been quite a lot of time had passed between the underschool reunion here. 353 00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:22.259 Despite the fact that he says that I got a spaceship on my 1st game. 354 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.759 Anyway, I'm glad that we didn't sort of pursue that because I think that would have been a bit. 355 00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:27.900 But also it's icky. 356 00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:31.740 I mean, it's the Doctor Who universe that we aspire to. 357 00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:33.240 It's supposed to be an inclusive place. 358 00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:35.460 People are welcome in the Tartars. 359 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:41.519 I know in practice you don't have like 50 people travelling with a doctor at a time because that's, you know, they... 360 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:43.859 Not travelling from story to story. 361 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.539 But I found all that. 362 00:28:45.539 --> 00:28:48.960 And, you know, you picked it up with Boomtown on this podcast. 363 00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:54.720 It's all a bit awful and they all look terrible and it's Mickey that's the one that you feel sorry for. 364 00:28:54.779 --> 00:29:03.119 And I think finally we're getting, we've moved through that and we're at a point where, no, no, Mickey is actually, you know, allowed to be called a companion, everyone. 365 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.279 You know, he's travelled to the Tatars, you know, get stuffed. 366 00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:09.599 And in some respects, that's being said to Rose, or at least to the rose of Boomtown. 367 00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:11.640 Yeah, no, someone completely agree with you. 368 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.700 And through these episodes here in the middle of the season. 369 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:19.920 He just shows maturity in the character that I don't think is in always shown in Rose's character. 370 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.279 And, you know, Billy has said that she considers Rose to be fairly selfish. 371 00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:27.240 But even at the end of the episode, you know, when the doctor says he's all right. 372 00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:30.539 But Mickey knows, come on, you know, show me around this place. 373 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.380 He knows that they need to get out of that to give the doctor a moment. 374 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.599 I think that's actually really, really good. 375 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:41.700 That's one of my favourite moments in, I think it might be in Tenant's run. 376 00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:48.000 You know, tenants so mannered and so like sometimes a little bit irritating. 377 00:29:48.059 --> 00:29:55.079 And he comes in after losing Renette, like after seeing the hearse drive off. 378 00:29:55.140 --> 00:30:03.720 He comes into the Tartars and he's just normal, you know, like he's just someone who's been bereaved. 379 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.799 Rose asks him if he's all right and he says, yeah, I'm always all right. 380 00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:09.420 But the mask has dropped. 381 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.839 The doctor performance has stopped for a bit. 382 00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:15.059 But it is Mickey. 383 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.200 You're right, Todd. 384 00:30:16.259 --> 00:30:19.380 It's Mickey who's the one who realises that the doctor should be left alone. 385 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:21.059 On the Mickey thing. 386 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:22.680 Sorry, if I can just add one more thing to that. 387 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:26.640 The making fun of Mickey, though, there is still one remnant of it. 388 00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:30.539 And it's the when Rose says, you're not keeping the horse. 389 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:32.759 And he says, I let you keep Mickey. 390 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:40.920 And now that's kind of acceptable because it's just a bit of banter, but it's still that kind of leftover bit of, you know, oh, Mickey's just a piece of like an extraneous character. 391 00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:44.579 You know, he'll probably get killed by the end of the season because he doesn't really care. 392 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.359 He doesn't really matter. 393 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:47.400 Colour is his shirt. 394 00:30:47.460 --> 00:30:48.720 Yeah, exactly. 395 00:30:48.779 --> 00:31:04.619 But if I can also say that regret scene in the Tartars at the end with Tenets reading the note and everything, it starts when he spins the fireplace around, after Renette said, oh, actually, no, this is still here and he works it out. 396 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.720 And he goes, yeah, it's great. 397 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:12.180 And he clicks it and the thing starts spinning around and she says, no. wish me luck. 398 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:16.559 And then, and then the look on his face, and I'm not a fan of David Tennant as the doctor. 399 00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:20.759 But that look on his face, it is just so, oh my god, what have I just done? 400 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:26.700 Because we've already established at the beginning that years can pass in the same fireplace. 401 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.299 And it's that look on his face saying, am I just throwing this away? 402 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.700 It's disappearing as I turn around and I think that's beautiful. 403 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.019 And I think that's... 404 00:31:34.019 --> 00:31:37.259 That's when he realises that this could go terribly wrong. 405 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:40.200 And I think that's when he realises he's never going to see her again. 406 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:45.119 Yes, even though he shouts at her through the fireplace then and says, capacia things, you know. 407 00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:54.539 Look, that's almost like sort of out of place because by then he should have said, you know, don't move away from the fireplace or someone stay by the fireplace because if we don't, you know, 10 years will go past like they did last time. 408 00:31:54.599 --> 00:32:04.920 But it's this emotional gravitas and the cleverness of Stephen Moffatt's writing and the performances of the entire cast here at the end of this episode, that moves you to tears. 409 00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:10.440 I was mentioning last week that I've got a stone called Heart when it came to like the Sarah Jane. 410 00:32:10.500 --> 00:32:11.339 Yes apparently. 411 00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:14.400 When it came to the Sarah Jane episode. 412 00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:17.579 Now, I don't get anywhere near as emotional, right? 413 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.299 But on the 1st viewing of that episode of Sarah Jane, end of this. 414 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.099 Like I was in tears at the end of this. 415 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:30.299 Like, it's real testament to the writing and Stephen's ability to manipulate you in that way and the structure. 416 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.279 It's a structure of the whole script. 417 00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:35.160 But also actors work best when they've got good stuff to work with. 418 00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:40.019 I think he gives them Moffatt, gives them the lines to do those performances. 419 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:44.759 They don't just get conjured up, especially not in the modern era where, if I understand this, right, and I might not. 420 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:49.980 It's, you know, in the olden days, they used to have weeks of rehearsal in a room in Acton or wherever it was. 421 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:54.779 Whereas now isn't it more like sort of rehearse record, like modern television, quote unquote. 422 00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:58.500 So they don't have that time to think, oh, wait a minute, maybe the character of a net would say this, blah, blah, blah. 423 00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:59.519 So it's Moffat, yeah. 424 00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:14.400 And it's him writing to his strengths because, you know, he starts with witty screwball romantic comedy where you have 2 clever, wilful characters saying clever things to one another. very coupling. 425 00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:17.039 It's very coupling without the sexism. 426 00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.819 And it's something that he writes incredibly well. 427 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.420 I mean, you have someone who is brilliant at sitcom dialogue. 428 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:25.920 Sort of a bit love, actually, is what you say. 429 00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:27.240 I love actually. 430 00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:29.039 Yeah, it's love actually the Christmas one. 431 00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:35.460 He's just very, very funny and very, very clever and the dialogue just works incredibly well. 432 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:36.720 It's just sparkling. 433 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:39.059 And just the way he seeds everything. 434 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:44.039 Like, you know, how does this woman link to the 51st century and then keeps coming back to it? 435 00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:47.279 You know, the ship is 37 when she is 37 years complete. 436 00:33:47.339 --> 00:33:52.440 I just love all those little builds up building up to that point in the script. 437 00:33:52.559 --> 00:34:01.140 One of the complaints about RTDs era is that things aren't properly accounted for or things aren't always explained in dialogue. 438 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:09.780 And, you know, people make that complaint that, you know, the conclusion of an episode just seems to come out of nowhere and people think it's sort of careless plotting. 439 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.000 I actually don't think that's the case. 440 00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:18.300 I think that's the way Russell writes, and he chooses not to weigh things down with too much explanation. 441 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:25.079 Here, Moffatt is much, much more careful about providing explanations for things. 442 00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:38.760 And he creates this puzzle box plot and brings mysteries up, all of which get resolved until the very end when finally the Y Renette question gets answered. 443 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.860 Yes, but they don't know. 444 00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.179 And they never find out. 445 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:44.099 That's something that they never find out. 446 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:45.179 And isn't that great? 447 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:46.139 Yeah, that is awesome. 448 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:55.079 But he does cheat by making the shape of the world kind of preposterous. 449 00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:57.900 He does this with the weeping angels as well. 450 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:21.780 The fact that what we have here is a spaceship that is powerful enough to punch bunches of holes in one person's timeline that is populated by robots that, for some reason, decide to carve up the crew and then travel to various points in time in a particular person's timeline in order to chop off their head. 451 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:27.480 And the whole thing is just hugely, hugely high concept. 452 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:41.039 And it has the shape it has, not because that's a thing that might happen or, you know, like something that is thematically resonant or anything, but it enables the story to happen. 453 00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:43.320 And it's the same with the weeping angels. 454 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:45.659 Nothing like the weeping angels could ever possibly evolve. 455 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:47.460 You know, they're absolutely magic. 456 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:48.360 They're just magic. 457 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:53.219 Yes, but you can make that criticism about any episode, or virtually any episode. 458 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:59.880 I mean, I think you mentioned it in Boomtown, where Margaret's going to do whatever she's going to do to the nuclear power plant to do whatever it is so she can serve it home. 459 00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:00.539 I mean, really. 460 00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:02.519 I don't think that's a criticism. 461 00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:03.900 Oh, it's just an observation. 462 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:08.639 But Doctor Who has got so many of those and I think if you stop to worry about them. 463 00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:11.760 Like, you know, I've been watching the Blu-ray of Genesis of the Daleks. 464 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:18.960 And much as I absolutely adore that story from my childhood and everything, I was watching it and going, oh, but how does that work? 465 00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:21.900 I mean, if they've really been at war for a 1000 years and this and that and da da da. 466 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.480 And, you know, they create this world, which is just nonsense. 467 00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:25.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 468 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:26.760 They'd never end up there. 469 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:29.579 It's 2 cities, 2 dome cities within walking. 470 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:30.659 Walking distance on the entire. 471 00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:32.760 Yes, we've been walking just like an hour's walk. 472 00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:39.659 So what I'm saying is, yeah, I get what you're saying, but I think to criticise this or to observe it's particularly about this episode. 473 00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:48.059 I think Moffat in particular does these sort of strange high concept things that work as the episodes going along. 474 00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:54.179 But if you stop afterwards and sort of think actually what's happening here, it has a very strange shape. 475 00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:57.480 It's a world that has a very, very unusual world shape. 476 00:36:57.539 --> 00:37:00.300 The world fits the structural plot. not the other way around. 477 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.099 Yeah, it's the structure of the writing. 478 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:06.179 It requires this to tell that story to tell that particular story. 479 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:12.900 And that is not a criticism at all because when you're watching it, the performance is the sparkling dialogue, the whole structure of it just takes you away. 480 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:31.199 If you compare it to, say, gridlock where Russell creates a world and then drops the doctor in it and gives him something to do and the shape of the world isn't determined by the type of story that he wants to tell, it's determined by the themes that he wants to explore, here, I think it's the other way around. 481 00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:39.059 But I mean, in gridlock, you've got all these cars on a freeway for God knows how many years, which is just completely... 482 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:49.199 And that's, yes, but and that's what I was going to add, is that the problem with something like gridlock is it's perfectly fine until they happen to say that they've been in a traffic jam for 30 years or whatever it was. 483 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:51.360 I can't remember the number, but it's an absurd number of years. 484 00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:56.159 And that level of absurdity, for some reason, for me, makes me go, jolt. 485 00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:57.480 Oh, that's just stupid. 486 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:02.400 Whereas the fact that this spaceship can punish, you know, a dozen holes in this woman's timeline. 487 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:03.840 It doesn't phase me at all. 488 00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:05.400 Just to get a spare part. 489 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:06.539 Just to get a spare part. 490 00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:13.079 And I wonder and I make that not as a criticism of what you're saying, but just as an observation. 491 00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:18.420 Like, isn't that interesting that some things cross the silliness threshold and break you out of it. 492 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.320 But then other things. 493 00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:20.460 Oh no, that's perfectly fine. 494 00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:34.139 But I think, too, that Moffatt is more interested in Doctor Who as a storytelling vehicle than Doctor Who has a sort of coherent account of an individual person's adventures in time inspired. 495 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:35.460 I think that's as it should be. 496 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:36.360 Yeah, yeah. 497 00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:37.679 Oh, yes, absolutely. 498 00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:41.820 And I mean, I love the plot device that they just happen to move the original fireplace. 499 00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:42.539 She just moved it. 500 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.400 Yeah, both throwing brick brick. 501 00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:48.300 I actually found that convincing though, because she knew that that was where the doctor appeared. 502 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:49.260 Of course, she would do that. 503 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:54.960 Like I didn't think I thought that that just about hung together as a plot point. 504 00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:57.179 But again, just about, just about. 505 00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.099 Again, I didn't have any problem with that at all. 506 00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:02.699 But again, two, it's the only one that isn't blown out. 507 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:07.800 And again, you know, all of the windows are blown out. just making this up, you know. 508 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:16.019 All of the windows are blown out except the one in the fireplace, which we observed in the 1st scene is very well built. you know, because it's offline or something. 509 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.800 Yeah, and it's offline and all of that, like... 510 00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:20.699 It all works. 511 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:27.000 Like what you were saying, there's some things as individuals take you out of things. 512 00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:32.579 You know, we're all different and we all have to. different things that sort of go, oh, you know, that's okay, well that's not. 513 00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:45.780 For me, it sort of just indicates an approach that I approve of, which is that for him, plot and character are more important than world building. 514 00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:48.360 Well, no, but he can. 515 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:49.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 516 00:39:49.440 --> 00:40:01.500 I would actually suggest that all of the Shaverunners thus far have had that precise, same vision because they've handled it in different ways. even right up to Chipmill now. 517 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:07.380 They're much more interested in the story than they are with that sort of inconvenience. 518 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:20.519 Yeah, but I mean, if you think about 80s Doctor Who, it would be create a concept and then just have the Dr. Tegan and Turlow, you know, getting captured and escaping for 4 episodes, then explosion, and that's our story. 519 00:40:20.579 --> 00:40:28.260 Whereas we have actual proper plot, like proper story happening in a careful way. 520 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.760 And then the world tailored around that in order to make the story work. 521 00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:38.940 Doctor Who is in my DNA. 522 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.340 I've always loved it, even underworld. 523 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:52.260 But the thing that the new series I've always struggled with a little. is, and what makes it for me a different program, is the fact that they are 45 minute self-contained episodes. 524 00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:57.239 There's a sort of the fault is either one for me, one direction or another. 525 00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:02.219 Either they're trying to do a traditional four-part story, but squeezed into 45 minutes. 526 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:08.699 And yes, I know you get rid of the standing urgently in corridors thing, and all the padding in episode 3 being locked up, da da da da. 527 00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:25.920 But what you lose is the sense of the passage of time, the epic feel, you know, and the other possibility is that there's just not enough, which is like Boomtown, much as I keep mentioning Boomtown, because I've just listened to the podcast, but Boomtown is an example of an episode which I did not like at the time, but I like a lot more now because I can sort of see how it works. 528 00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:31.079 But it's just the exploration of an idea rather than a four-part story sort of squished in. 529 00:41:31.139 --> 00:41:39.900 The girl in the fireplace manages to, in 45 minutes, have that epic feel because of the way the pages of the book are squashed together. 530 00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:57.539 And when it finished, I sort of had the same feeling as when, you know, for instance, when I get to the end of, say, the Green Death, where you've gone through all of this period of time with these characters and they've changed, they've evolved, they think differently now to what they did at the beginning, and too often in modern Doctor Who, you just don't feel that. 531 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:11.159 I still think, though, that the story would work beautifully as a traditional four-part story, with adding in a few more subplots, you know, bringing in a few other things, having a bit more exploration of the 17th century or the 18th century, 17th century, isn't it? 532 00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:15.480 It would work so beautifully still, but it still works as a standalone 45. 533 00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:18.000 It's really interesting. what you're saying there. 534 00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:26.400 Like, I mean, because remember as kids, like we used to talk about the different characters in classic Doctor Who who aren't the companions, right? 535 00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:27.059 Yes. 536 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.960 And very often in modern Doctor Who, who are they? 537 00:42:31.019 --> 00:42:31.739 Who are they? 538 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:35.519 But here, I always remember Madame de Pompadour from this season. 539 00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:38.760 Like she is like a character who stands out. 540 00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:42.480 She is pretty much the single guest star. 541 00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:46.920 I mean, you've got the handsome king, the very handsome kid. 542 00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:48.539 Is he Louis the 15th or 14th that guy? 543 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:50.039 Ben Turner, as King Louis. 544 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:51.239 What did he say that, people? 545 00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:51.960 Gorgeous. 546 00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:54.599 But so we can look him up. 547 00:42:54.659 --> 00:43:04.679 She's the Richard Mace, though, of the episode in that she's the one character with a name, not just a title, who actually gets an amount of dialogue, and so there is time to explore her. 548 00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:07.860 Unlike her little person she's strongly. 549 00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:12.360 In the garden. in the gardens, who is Angel Colby from Merlin. 550 00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:13.860 She was Guenevere, yeah. 551 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:14.099 Yeah. 552 00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:17.639 And last week we had Anthony Stewart Head, who was also in Merlin. 553 00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:19.980 So a few Merlin connections in these couple of episodes. 554 00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:21.960 So I think that character's called Catherine. 555 00:43:22.019 --> 00:43:24.719 And that's a great scene because it's outdoors. 556 00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:36.539 You know, we're in the studio for most of this, but that's actually quite a lovely scene and it is a romantic comedy scene with the doctor ducking down behind, you know, a stone railing in order to stay out of sight. 557 00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:39.599 It also manages not to whitewash history as well. 558 00:43:39.659 --> 00:43:40.260 Yeah. 559 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:46.139 I mean, not so much anymore, but certainly in classic costume drama made by the BBC or ITV. 560 00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:49.079 History was always white, like uniformly white. 561 00:43:49.139 --> 00:43:54.659 And television was uniformly white, and they actively made a choice there to get a black actress. 562 00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.599 And there are plenty of black extras as well in the scenes too. 563 00:43:57.659 --> 00:44:00.599 Yeah, no, like but I think they talked about that in confidential. 564 00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:01.199 Right. 565 00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:06.000 That they specifically made sure that they had a diverse cast. 566 00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:07.920 Has anyone seen Casanova? 567 00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:08.400 Yeah. 568 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:10.739 The Russell of D. Davies thing just before Doctor Who. 569 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:15.300 That's what it feels like to me, because that also, I think, had that sort of diverse casting. 570 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:21.539 It's definitely the kind of rehearsal, the audition piece, isn't it, for Doctor Who? 571 00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:30.239 And he does go on to cast some of the other people in Casanova and we'll get to that when we talk about fear her. 572 00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:31.739 Oh, yes. 573 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:36.539 Can I also observe, though, the other comparison I want to make with Casanova. 574 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:41.820 And one of the things I don't like about the episode is the makeup and hair. 575 00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:48.179 There's something about it, which feels, it's not, it doesn't feel authentic, and I know we have... 576 00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:48.539 Yes. 577 00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:55.679 It's like, you know, even, you know, King Louis's early 21st century stubble and the hair and the makeup of Renette and so on. 578 00:44:55.739 --> 00:45:01.800 It's kind of like a nod to historical, but it's and I know it's a production choice and it's a stylistic choice. 579 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:03.900 It's deliberate. a deliberate production. 580 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:04.440 I know. 581 00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:10.199 And I wonder why they do that sort of thing because for me, it's like, oh, it doesn't feel as authentic as it could feel. 582 00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:11.280 And even the lighting as well. 583 00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:15.059 I mean, yes, they've made a lot of effort to have shadows and, you know, as if the whole thing's being lit by candles. 584 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.099 But there's not that flickering. 585 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:27.059 There's something about it, which I don't think would have been difficult to achieve, which you see in plenty of other historical costume dramas of the modern era, whether it's Victoria or what have you. 586 00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:33.119 Look, I would tend to agree with you on that as somebody who, for a lot of their life, studied history. 587 00:45:33.179 --> 00:45:42.300 I get that quite often, you know, it's to make it accessible and it's an active production choice to make it understandable to the modern audience. 588 00:45:42.300 --> 00:45:44.760 Kind of very peculiar. 589 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:47.940 Like not the reason, but why this would make it inaccessible. 590 00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:53.639 I actually think authenticity in a historical thing is something that you're never going to get. 591 00:45:53.699 --> 00:45:57.179 And I don't know that it's something that you should be aiming for. 592 00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:03.900 In the opposite direction, do you have historical dramas which show how bad everyone's teeth were? 593 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:04.559 Yes. 594 00:46:04.619 --> 00:46:05.519 Yeah. 595 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.460 Or the, you know, the faeces. 596 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:09.659 Yeah, we need more lice. 597 00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:10.559 No, obviously. 598 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:11.280 No, no, no. 599 00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:21.480 But there is, I suppose, I mean, obviously historical productions are always, they make certain choices and it's going to be, I mean, the ones which are really gritty and grotty. 600 00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:28.199 And they're the ones which are a bit more romanticised where everyone's got good teeth and clean and they don't smell and so on. 601 00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:36.539 But there is, I think this is a choice which for me is just a little bit too far. trying to make contemporary. 602 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.119 And I think that if they are the excuses, and I don't know whether they are. 603 00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:42.239 But if they are the excuses or the rationale, I think it's a very poor one. 604 00:46:42.300 --> 00:46:46.139 They describe it as a rock and roll version of... 605 00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:51.900 Well, Casanova, see Casanova, tenants wandering around in Casanova, I seem to recall with like gelled early 21st century hair. 606 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.260 And, you know, it's kind of like, really. 607 00:46:55.320 --> 00:47:01.019 I mean, compare it to, and I was comparing it to, because of the scene at the end where the horse, you know, comes through the glass, the mirror. 608 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.920 Mask of Mandraga, it's like the mask scene in Mask of Mandraga. 609 00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:11.760 Now, maybe it's just because I saw that when I was like eight, but for me, and that's what, you know, Renaissance is. 610 00:47:14.820 --> 00:47:28.079 See, I don't have a problem with that aspect of it because I find the spaceship to be rather dark and metallic and it's falling apart and it's all highly robotic and, you know, with body parts and all that sort of thing. 611 00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:33.179 And then you can't to opposite where it's all romantic and brightly lit and love story. 612 00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:38.280 So, on that level, that's how I see it. to draw that contrast. 613 00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:38.639 Yes. 614 00:47:38.699 --> 00:47:57.780 And it's Doctor Who's aesthetic during this period, an aesthetic that it's only just shed of everything being kind of hyper real and oversaturated and that kind of thing, a slightly cartoonish aesthetic, which is what they're going for. then becomes fairy tale for a number of years. 615 00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:58.440 Yeah. 616 00:47:58.500 --> 00:48:00.179 But it's certainly consistent with that. 617 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:01.800 And this is a fairy tale. 618 00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:03.119 I mean, this is a fairy tale. 619 00:48:03.179 --> 00:48:12.599 The doctor makes up a technical term for the fireplace specifically so that he doesn't have to call it a magic door, which is just what it is. 620 00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:13.380 It's a magic door. 621 00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:19.800 This is really, it's Moffat cutting his teeth on how he will make Doctor Who. 622 00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:20.460 Yeah. 623 00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:28.559 Well, I think, I think the way that you go through the magic door as well, where there's no sort of silly, um, vortex. 624 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:32.400 It just, it just turns around like... 625 00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:33.300 Yeah, it's wonderful. 626 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:34.199 It's great. 627 00:48:34.260 --> 00:48:39.719 Listeners might be taking note of the times where I have memory lapses since last season. 628 00:48:39.780 --> 00:48:46.920 You know how I've been talking about the fact that I can't remember slabs of things for some reason with the new series. happened again here. 629 00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:48.360 I was watching it all the way through. 630 00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:53.099 I'm going, is Rose and Mickey ever really going to meet Madame de Pompadour? 631 00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:59.159 So that entire bedroom sequence where, you know, she talks about the slow path and all that, I completely erased it from my head. 632 00:48:59.219 --> 00:49:00.719 I really like that scene. 633 00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:01.380 Sounds great. 634 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:02.219 It's really good. 635 00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:04.320 The 2 of those women are excellent. 636 00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:16.860 And I think again, you know, for the 2nd time this season, they've had a sword of historical where they haven't put rose in a frock and she's just sort of standing there in the t-shirt opposite. 637 00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:22.260 Another intelligent young woman dressed in sort of 17th century gear. 638 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:23.400 I think it's wonderful. 639 00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:30.659 But no, coming back to this, I enjoyed this as much, as if not slightly more than ever. 640 00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:32.760 It's my joint favourite of this season for me. 641 00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:43.019 Yeah, I think that my habit of leaving the Moffatt stuff on the table really needs to be reevaluated because I thought this was, this was exceptionally good. 642 00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:46.739 It's the 1st early new series episode I've watched in many years. 643 00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:48.599 Usually I'm just watching where we're up to. 644 00:49:48.659 --> 00:49:51.420 And I came back to it, wondering what to expect. 645 00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:52.800 And I was actually blown away. 646 00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:55.800 I thought it was even better than I remember it to be. 647 00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:59.219 The concept behind it is mature and intelligent. 648 00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.099 It's timey-wimey without being over the top and stupid about it. 649 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.900 It doesn't dig itself holes that it can't then get out of later and just solves with a big explosion. 650 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:15.719 I think, as I've said before, the silliness is an aside rather than central, and it really is everything that Doctor Who should be for me. 651 00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:47.760 Well, dear listener, we've reached that part of the series where it's time for a controversial two part story set on the planet Earth or its nearest equivalent. 652 00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:52.860 We'll see you next week and just a little bit to the left for Rise of the Cybermen. 653 00:50:52.920 --> 00:51:00.780 In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 654 00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:10.500 You can also find us at our series 11 flashcast Jody Interterterra, which is at Jody Interterra.com, Jody Interterra on Apple Podcasts, and at Jody Interterra on Twitter. 655 00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:17.579 And we're also available on Bondfinger, our commentary podcast on the James Bond franchise and a bunch of other silly things. 656 00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:23.579 You can find that at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at bondfingercast on Twitter. 657 00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:25.440 Simon, where can people find you? 658 00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:30.059 You can hear me on FineMusic 102.5 FM in Sydney. 659 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.239 And if you're not in Sydney, you can stream it at findmusicfm.com. 660 00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:37.019 And I have been known to play the Doctor Who theme once or twice in my time. 661 00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:38.579 Brilliant. 662 00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:39.780 All right. 663 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:46.619 So until next time, may you remember to keep your vessel's auto repair system switched off at all times. 664 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:48.179 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 665 00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:49.440 See you soon. 666 00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:50.039 Good night. 667 00:51:50.099 --> 00:51:50.760 Bye for now. 668 00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:59.159 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd, we'll be Nathan Bottomley, Simon Moore and James Selwood. 669 00:51:59.219 --> 00:52:02.940 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane Orberg. 670 00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:10.139 This episode, tropes for want of a better word, was recorded on the 26th of January 2019 and released on the 7th of April. 671 00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:25.019 Of course, Moffat's original much more upsetting premise involved the SS Teresa May, which saw the entire population of Britain trapped on a spaceship, repeatedly reliving the events of the past three years. 672 00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:29.159 Don't do the story titles, yeah, just... 673 00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:29.820 Yeah, no, no. 674 00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:31.500 I'm just seeing if I forgot anything else. 675 00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:34.079 Um working titles. 676 00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:48.960 Um, You know, the Moffat lifted the whole description of the doctor being what monsters are scared of Paul Cornell. 677 00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:49.440 Yeah. 678 00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:51.480 It's a new adventuresism. 679 00:52:51.539 --> 00:52:52.980 Yeah, love and war. 680 00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.860 Doesn't he say I'm the lord of time at some point in this? 681 00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:57.059 Not in this, I don't think. 682 00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:01.679 Yeah, no, he's the king says I'm king of France and he says I'm... 683 00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:03.119 Oh, that, yes, no, that's beautiful. 684 00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:03.840 I love that. 685 00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:05.219 Yeah, that's a very that's a very good line. 686 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:11.940 There are a few other kind of cultural references in there, like with Camilla being referenced. 687 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:13.199 When did they get married? 688 00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:14.940 It wasn't that long before then. 689 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:17.579 Actually, well, maybe they're not married. 690 00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:18.659 Actually, after, I think you're right. 691 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:20.699 So she's still the girlfriend mistress at that point. 692 00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:28.920 And the, um, Mr. Thick, thickety, thick from Thickton, or whatever it was, that's, is that, is that sort of just specific? 693 00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:32.219 Yeah, is that sort of a sort of a black atism or is that? 694 00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:35.579 Because I mean, I wasn't sure whether it was a unique blackout or whether it was just a generic British thing. 695 00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:39.179 I think it's a specific blackadder thing because it's a frocks and wigs story. 696 00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:40.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 697 00:53:40.260 --> 00:53:40.500 Yeah. 698 00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:45.599 And it's got the sort of the, the, the, the, the feel of the black adder. 699 00:53:45.659 --> 00:53:47.400 Is that when he's drunk? 700 00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:57.900 Well, when he's playing drunk. to be fair, because I think I think that is actually quite good where he comes in pretending he's drunk and then so he can pull a swift one on the robots, which we haven't actually commented on yet, if I can. 701 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:03.539 They are so beautifully designed and the masks, which are almost reminiscent of the clowns from Greatest Show, I sort of thought. 702 00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:05.280 I don't think it's a homage to. 703 00:54:05.340 --> 00:54:07.019 I think it just happens to be because they're a painted face. 704 00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:09.059 And the doctor says, oh, you're so beautiful. 705 00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.539 And he's just said that 2 weeks prior to the werewolf as well. 706 00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.000 It was interesting. sort of... that's right. 707 00:54:15.059 --> 00:54:17.760 Now that you say that, that made it was a bit tedious at the time. 708 00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:19.260 It was like, are we just using the same kind of thing? 709 00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:20.519 Oh, you're beautiful, but after destroyed it. 710 00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:24.239 But also, I think you're about to say something similar. 711 00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:24.599 Sorry. 712 00:54:24.659 --> 00:54:26.519 It shows how he's different. 713 00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:28.860 Like his eth, not his ethics. 714 00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:32.699 His aesthetics are different from the average human. 715 00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:41.639 Like he's... being, you know, he's being menaced by a werewolf and he stops to admire its beauty and it... 716 00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:49.260 Here they're being menaced by these clockwork soldiers and he's saying, oh, he's so beautiful and everything when other people just run screaming from the room. 717 00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:52.380 I mean, they're ludicrously impractical again. 718 00:54:52.619 --> 00:55:08.219 But the clock thing, you know, in a story about the passage of time works terribly well and the broken clock thing is another sort of very clever Moffattism where they break the clock so that you don't notice them ticking. 719 00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:11.579 And of course, he'll revisit it at the beginning of series eight. 720 00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:12.420 Yeah. 721 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:23.280 Well, in fact, the villains in sort of exaggerated masks thing, that's a well that he'll go back to a few more times, I think, before he's done with the show. 722 00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:27.599 But that's only, I think, because it's a good idea. 723 00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:41.400 And when their masks are off, where it's that sort of glass ovoid with with actual proper moving clockwork in it, I just think looks incredible, just looks wonderful. 724 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:55.079 I think, um, like you and I have both said, yeah, had a conclusing, concluding thing, James, do you want to say something and then Simon say something or are you good?