WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:15:44 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.439 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast from a parallel universe where every beloved Doctor Who classic is in reality just terribly tiresome. 2 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:47.460 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:48.299 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:55.439 And I'm a complimentary tray of WD 40 centred spumanti for this one. since I'm in the kitchen again. 5 00:00:55.859 --> 00:00:57.780 Hi folks. 6 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:13.379 Well, the entire time vortex has collapsed, and we've landed in a dystopian version of Britain, where the bewildered populace are skulking in the streets, while the Toffs are sailing around in Zeppelins, drinking champagne and generally enjoying Brexit. 7 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:16.859 Thank God, really, for the rise of the cybermen. 8 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:34.140 So, uh, can we all agree that Roger Lloyd Pack is really terrible in this? 9 00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:35.340 No. 10 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:40.319 I can never decide whether I like him or not, but I think I fall on the side of liking him. 11 00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:44.879 I appreciate his aimoral disdain for the audience. 12 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:58.439 I appreciate that he is seeing us all as some panto hoopla, sticky children, and he's just throwing us a whole lot of really, look, it actually, it's Barnum and Bailey. 13 00:01:58.500 --> 00:02:02.819 It's just, or, you know, any vaudeville old act, and I think Doctor Who does vaudeville beautifully. 14 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.239 So really, he's the celestial toy maker. 15 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:22.139 It's really weird to go from sort of scenes where you've got Billy and Noll and David Tennant kind of doing sort of proper, you know, emotional acting and then you go to Roger Lloyd Pack and his little friend. 16 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:24.840 Well, this is something I was going to bring up later. 17 00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:25.560 Are they? 18 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:30.479 Or is it actually that Billy and Noel are really giving us Fabe? 19 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:32.520 Um, and this is no denigration? 20 00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:39.180 Because we all know how good these shows can actually be, Fabe, Corey realism, or whatever, whatever the Welsh equivalent is. 21 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:45.240 And then we've got Tenant doing his Dick Van Dyke Shtick, which is Canon because it's named in the actual program. 22 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:45.780 Yes. 23 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:58.319 And then, and I think, I'm wondering if Roger, who is a great funny bloke and a proper comedian and loved by everyone in the industry for being a genuine wit and dry and super smart on set. 24 00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:01.979 So I'm sure not having seen the um, yet. 25 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:07.500 I'm sure the gentle listener has watched the, you know, commentary, but I haven't seen Tenets one. 26 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.680 But I know that those 2 would have been sparring off each other. 27 00:03:10.740 --> 00:03:18.539 So I actually think Roger might be picking up on tenants, acting style, which I'll be talking about throughout the podcast. 28 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:27.659 Yes, a friend of the podcast, Fiona Tomney, was complaining about his general face pulling and sharp behaviour. 29 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:28.919 She works with horses. 30 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:31.620 So she knows what that's all about. 31 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:36.300 You could stick a bridle in that thing and it'll still be gurning away. 32 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:37.800 Yes, quite. 33 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:39.240 Ah, dear. 34 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:43.800 He does seem, you know, he is sort of a low rent version of Davros, isn't he? 35 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:45.360 Like he's disabled. 36 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:46.439 David Tennant, absolutely. 37 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:51.539 He's disabled, which is obviously unfortunate. 38 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.060 No one can be as camp as Deveraux. 39 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.539 No. 40 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.979 Well, I mean, you compare him to Davros and Davros has... 41 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.460 Well, he has Nider, but he has the range, doesn't he, darling? 42 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:03.419 He really has the range. 43 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:07.139 So he goes from shouty to being sort of quite quiet to being thoughtful. 44 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.560 It's a really impressive performance from Michael Wisher. 45 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:11.340 I agree. 46 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.580 No, look, Lloyd Pack is definitely pantoing this. 47 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.139 I think he's seeing it as a kiddie show. 48 00:04:16.259 --> 00:04:21.839 But I do honestly believe he's getting that from David's performance, which is quite hypertrophied and shticky. 49 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:24.480 It does feel quite Disney fight. 50 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:37.920 And watching the sensitive scenes, he, at least, well, I was going to say, he can't boldlerize those moments between Noel and Billy, that I'm still sticking with the 1st episode when they're realising they're going down because the camera's not on him. 51 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:45.420 When you look at it, the emotional moments work when tenants face isn't tenanting in the room. 52 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:50.939 I loved him at the time, but I'm getting a real sense of you're acting a lot here, aren't you? 53 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.779 Whereas the others are giving, I would say, a performance that I can feel. 54 00:04:54.839 --> 00:05:04.680 We actually talked about this at the end of last week's episode because he's devastated by the death of Renette at the end of the girl in the fireplace and he comes. 55 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:05.939 So much so that he dated her for a little while. 56 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:06.899 He did, yes. 57 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:17.699 He comes into the TARDIS and he's really sombre and he's absolutely not doing the Doctor Who acting thing that he does. 58 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:19.139 And it's wonderful. 59 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:21.540 It was nice change, wasn't it? 60 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:30.779 I think that Tennant does try to delineate between the, you know, Dick Van Dyke apples and pears, whatever. 61 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:42.720 And there's a scene where that really comes to the full in this episode where, you know, he's just done the bit with the crystal with Mickey, which is full-blown Dick Van Dyke, you know. 62 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:45.839 Just wasted 10 minutes, my life. 63 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:48.540 I like that every second. 64 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:49.500 I really like it as well. 65 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:51.600 And then he comes to Rose and say, oh, look, I fixed it. 66 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:53.339 We'll be going home soon, blah, blah, blah. 67 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:59.819 And, you know, Rose has just research Pete and Tenet's face falls and he's like, what is it? 68 00:06:00.180 --> 00:06:02.879 It's a total switch between grinning idiot too. 69 00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:04.319 Did you do the thing? 70 00:06:04.379 --> 00:06:05.639 I told you not to do this. 71 00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:06.420 Did you do the thing? 72 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:07.199 You did that thing. 73 00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:07.680 Okay. 74 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:12.660 And then you've got Mickey going off in one direction, Rose going off in the other. 75 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:18.660 Am I having am I having Salford withdrawal syndrome? 76 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:19.139 Am I? 77 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:20.939 Am I having Eccles withdrawal? 78 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:26.819 Um, oh, well, God, I'm still having echles because I'm measuring echles. 79 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:28.079 I'm watching these again. 80 00:06:28.139 --> 00:06:45.000 I'd love to know what the lovely Liz Miles and Stevens have said in earlier episodes of the podcast, which are available to Down there. from your choice of Nathanisms. that, you know, how how everyone else has been taking it because I'm still seeing what would asking myself, what would Eccles do? 81 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:46.680 He'd be amazing in this one. 82 00:06:46.740 --> 00:07:02.459 I'm pretty sure that the girl in the fireplace started development with Eccleston, and that was part of the dichotomy there that you had the rough Salford lad and the aristocratic mistress of the king of France. 83 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:03.899 I was Lady Penelope, you know. 84 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:06.000 Best thing about that. 85 00:07:06.060 --> 00:07:06.660 Just nobody. 86 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:16.019 Tenant's interesting because, yeah, actually, yeah, this is the 1st podcast I've done on a tenant story, isn't it? 87 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:27.779 Ten is interesting because when I look back on the era, I feel he's the weakest of the new series doctors, but then I actually go back and watch them as like, oh, actually it's really hard for me to fault you. 88 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.360 I also got the best stories. 89 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:32.579 I mean, I, yeah, I agree. 90 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.500 I feel the same way. 91 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:49.500 I always kind of expect to be slightly irritated by him, but you go back and watch an episode and you are slightly irritated by him, but it's very clear why he is one of the best remembered new series doctors because he had Graham Harper. 92 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.620 Well, Graham Harper and Russell T. Davies as well. 93 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:54.360 These are great seasons of Doctor Who. 94 00:07:54.420 --> 00:08:06.720 Which brings up my question, he does, is the, um, is his own 2IC Nider, actually Graham Harper in apotheosis in this episode, because the casting, the bloke, I know the actor. trying to think who he is. 95 00:08:06.779 --> 00:08:08.399 He looks just like Graham Harper. 96 00:08:08.459 --> 00:08:09.180 Colin Spald. 97 00:08:09.300 --> 00:08:10.199 That's it, Colin Spald. 98 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:10.860 Who is in? 99 00:08:10.860 --> 00:08:11.819 He sounds like Graham. 100 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:14.339 He is in Revelation of the Dialects. 101 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:15.540 He's Lil, type thing. 102 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:16.079 Yes. 103 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:16.319 Yeah. 104 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:18.839 Also, he and Graham went to school together. 105 00:08:18.899 --> 00:08:21.180 They've known each other since they were 10 or 11. 106 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:22.560 Yeah, he's doing it. 107 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:23.339 Yeah. 108 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.279 And so he's cast him as well. 109 00:08:26.339 --> 00:08:31.560 So we have Graham Harper and he does, I think, 4 episodes this season. 110 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:32.460 That's right. 111 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:37.679 He does these 2 and he does the finale, and these were all part of the one block. 112 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.000 It took me 3 days. 113 00:08:39.059 --> 00:08:41.220 They exhausted the elderly gentleman, didn't they? 114 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.980 to, I think, to the point that he said, I'm getting on bit for this. 115 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:51.779 Well, he was very famous, I think, in his 2 classic stories of being super, super active and kind of running around. 116 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.059 He was one of the people. 117 00:08:54.059 --> 00:08:55.740 Silicon suit, wasn't he? 118 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:57.059 He was doing the whole dance moves. 119 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.399 Sarah's Jack and everything. 120 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:01.799 But he would direct from the floor. 121 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:16.139 And we said, I think, at the time in our episode on Caves of Andrazani, that it was an astonishingly well-directed story and vastly, vastly better than everything that surrounded it and really, really stylish. 122 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.539 Now he's slightly older. 123 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:28.440 It's still, I think, very well directed, but not as markedly well directed because all the other directors in the era are very good as well. 124 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:32.159 And visual tropes of, did we, what did we just say? 125 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:35.159 Visual conceits have caught up as well. 126 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:40.379 But he, I actually get that this is a nice traditional way of directing a program. 127 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:41.639 There's those lovely vistas. 128 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:43.919 I actually felt it was a little bit Disney and rocketeer. 129 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:50.039 We'll get onto the cyberman designs in a bit, but the way it was shot was definitely filmic. 130 00:09:50.100 --> 00:10:05.159 And also it felt very much like some of my favourite World War 2 British films and his shooting of the of the dirigibles of the airships was very much like Sir Carol Reed's shooting in his war biopics, which might possibly pick of the week. 131 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.220 So, let's talk about the parallel universe. 132 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:25.080 The parallel universe is kind of stolen a bit from Philip Pullman's his dark materials. 133 00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:26.639 Thank you for bringing that up. 134 00:10:26.700 --> 00:10:28.019 It really is, isn't it? 135 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:35.639 And Philip Pullman actually, I think, writes the introduction to the writer's tale and talks about being ripped off. 136 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:52.919 And so, um, and, you know, in an, in an admiring way, you know, um, so the parallel universe where there are Zeppelins is the universe from uh, the Golden Compass, which is also called Northern Lights. 137 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:55.500 Yes, it's the his dark materials. 138 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.120 Yeah, Triptic. 139 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:58.559 And he's brought out another one. 140 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:00.960 I've got all 4 of them, another one. coming up. 141 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:03.299 Oh, there's so many pics of the week. 142 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:04.860 They're really great. 143 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:10.139 I mean, if they don't come up as peaks of the week in next week's episode, then you really astonished or forgetful. 144 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.120 Yeah, exactly. one of those. 145 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.399 It is incredible. 146 00:11:14.460 --> 00:11:22.860 And it's where that image of the 2 people trapped on either side of a barrier between parallel universes comes from. 147 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:35.700 So the 2 leads end up being split up and unable to get to each other's universe and they meet in Oxford and sit on the same park bench, but in different universes. 148 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:46.799 And we will talk about that at the end of the season because, you know, it's, it's a huge, a huge image and and one of the most memorable scenes, I think, in modern who. 149 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:50.700 That's a lovely presage because we get that moment with a wall, don't we? 150 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:51.419 I'm remembering. 151 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:56.340 A friend of mine's just had chemo, which didn't work. and he's now, because none of us are getting any younger. 152 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:57.779 It's all right, this is a light end to this. 153 00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:58.740 That didn't work. 154 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:06.539 So they now use this really super version of radiation therapy, which would be the sort of thing that Roger Lloyd Pax's character had been having here. 155 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:08.820 No, it's true, and the walking thing is all very difficult. 156 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:16.019 But there are amazing results now with people who we were losing even just last year on this fabulous trial. 157 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.480 But the nurse said to him after his 1st radiation treatment. 158 00:12:18.539 --> 00:12:20.100 Now I'll take a picky of you, look at this. 159 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:23.519 He had an aura and he glows and she said, no, you can get a cab home. 160 00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:30.720 You've got to sit in the back seat and you can't share a sensitive moment with anyone, not even through a hole in a wall. 161 00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:33.779 She was 23. 162 00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:34.919 How does she know? 163 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:39.600 I say, well, so I would actually note that to both Billy and David for the end of the year. 164 00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:41.340 So just be careful where you go with this. 165 00:12:43.139 --> 00:12:45.480 That's a plot for Star. 166 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:50.399 So we've had a parallel universe before. 167 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:53.100 And it was in Inferno. 168 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:55.980 Yeah, aren't we lucky we didn't accidentally end up in this one? 169 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.940 It's like, oh, we've fallen out of things and we've ended up on a radioactive cinder. floating around. 170 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.679 Oh, there's Liz's wig. 171 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:07.500 No, I guess I want 7 episodes and Billy and a Helen Shapiro black Motown wig. 172 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:07.919 I want that. 173 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:10.019 I mean, with a moustache. 174 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:18.299 I think I've said before that Inferno is a bit overrated. and it's extraordinary. 175 00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:19.379 I think. 176 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:20.700 Well, we can't all be right. 177 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:21.899 No, no, no, that's true. 178 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:23.220 I am wrong sometimes. 179 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:35.639 I think Elle Sander says that it's the most egregious padding in a Doctor Who episode because you have a bunch of episodes where they just redo the previous episodes again in a parallel universe. 180 00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:44.519 But the thing that the parallel universe does, is gives actors at the end of the season, the chance to camp it up and play different versions of themselves. 181 00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:47.519 And so here we've got Rose's family. 182 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:55.139 We get wonderful Sean Dingwell back with less hair, you know, as a successful version of himself. 183 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.899 And I think attending a few fitness classes in the meantime. 184 00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:01.919 He's looking well lickable in this one. 185 00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:02.460 Yes. 186 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:03.360 Yes. 187 00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:05.460 Well, you know, he does do his health drinks. 188 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:07.919 No, but they're just pop. 189 00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:08.820 They don't actually work. 190 00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:09.840 They just pop. 191 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:21.360 But the interesting thing about his health drinks is that Lumek has a line in his voiceover of how cybers works, that the brain will be suspended in a blend of patent chemicals. 192 00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:22.919 Oh, you think it's viting? 193 00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:24.899 I think this is why he's bought Vitex. 194 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.019 Because, you know, you consider you see all those videos. 195 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:36.299 Well, you know, here's what coke can do to a coin and it can clean things and it can preserve things and it can, you know, clean your loo and teach your children how to do algebra. 196 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:40.320 I think the brain is suspended in Vitex drinks. 197 00:14:40.379 --> 00:14:42.179 And I think that was the joke at the time. 198 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:46.860 And I remember laughing at that and my mum and dad going, what? 199 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:47.879 Nothing, nothing. 200 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.399 It's copyrighted chemicals, isn't it? 201 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:51.360 Exactly. 202 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:51.720 Yes. 203 00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:57.179 Yeah, it's there's a sort of darkness to this too, because the health drinks don't work. 204 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:58.320 They're a fake. 205 00:14:58.379 --> 00:15:01.200 And there's something about the world being sick. 206 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:05.399 And I think that... the Mark Platt... 207 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:05.639 Yeah. 208 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:13.559 So Mark Platt gets a with thanks to Mark Platt credit here, even though Spare Parts is not very much like this story. 209 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:22.019 Indeed, but the original concept was that it would be not exactly an adaptation of spare parts, but draw on it more heavily. 210 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.679 And the initial drafts by Tom McRae. who was kind of a protégé of Russell T. Davis. 211 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:30.779 Do we know how he got the job? 212 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.639 This isn't salacious. 213 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.179 I had to say that because of my face, Richard. 214 00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:37.799 Silent Muise in the room, yeah. 215 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:39.899 No, but in... 216 00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:40.799 Had a maleficent moment. 217 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:44.700 Shortly after queer as folk. 218 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.139 Russell Davies was doing a signing and Tom McRae turned up with a few spec scripts. 219 00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:51.179 And so I said, Russell, I think you're wonderful. 220 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:52.320 Could you give me some feedback? 221 00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.419 And Russell did and sort of nurtured him from then on. 222 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.419 And yeah, gave him this opportunity. 223 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:00.539 He was 25 when he wrote these scripts. 224 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:09.480 It was always a parallel universe, but it was going to be a parallel universe where there was a plague, and that's why people were going in for these upgrades. 225 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:18.360 And Russell kind of thought, well, hold on, back in the 60s, it was all about, oh, if you replace things with prosthetics and whatnot, you'll become a cyberman. 226 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:24.299 And Russell's like, well, we have people who are amputees now who are experimenting with this thing and it's enriching their lives. 227 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:25.440 It's not taking over them. 228 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:29.340 Let's go for a different angle and that's when they decided on the consumerism angle. 229 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:37.860 And even then it was going to be people going in and getting their arms replaced as a fashion statement and Russell went, oh, I think that's a bit far, but look at this new thing called an iPod. 230 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:45.600 And I think we were a few months away from the 1st iPhone or a few, a couple of years away from the 1st iPhone. 231 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.179 So they decided to go down that angle instead. 232 00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:51.360 And that's why it moves away from spare parts so much. 233 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:54.720 But Mark Platt did get a fee sort of for the ideas. 234 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:55.500 Right. 235 00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:56.279 Yeah. 236 00:16:56.340 --> 00:17:02.460 I also think that the world was going to be more dystopian that it ends up being. 237 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:11.519 And I gather that they pulled back on it because that was where Rose and Jackie were going to end up at the end of the season. 238 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:22.619 So it couldn't be a sort of terrible world where everyone was sick and where there was, because there's a huge demarkation between rich and poor, and they do talk about food cues. 239 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:25.980 And they do talk about, you know, the absence, the lack of employment. 240 00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:27.480 Yeah. 241 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:29.519 Perfuse, heaps of homelessness. 242 00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:33.180 It's a little bit April in 2019, isn't it? 243 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:34.259 rather than April in Paris. 244 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:36.299 Yeah, yeah. 245 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:44.759 And in fact, it is amazingly prescient because as you say, Brendan, the iPhone, I think, is announced in 2006 and comes out in 2007. 246 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:46.140 Is it that long ago? 247 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:47.640 I heard one in two, okay. 248 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:51.660 Yeah, yeah. it didn't come out here in Australia until a year later. 249 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:53.700 So you see the phones. 250 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.640 Like, Rose has a new phone for this story. 251 00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:59.220 She doesn't have her old little colourful Nokia. 252 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:11.940 She does have a sort of upgraded phone and it is funny seeing these people with what are called AirPods, but look and function like AirPods, which you see people wearing all the time now. 253 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:18.420 In fact, Apple does use the term AirPods for the wide headphones that I'm actually currently wearing. 254 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:19.920 They're called AirPods. 255 00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:28.500 And Joe. And the idea that we all sort of have this sort of similar experience. 256 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:38.279 There's that scene, which I'm not sure quite comes off, where all these extras stop moving in the morning and everything gets downloaded to them, the news and the weather and stuff. 257 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:50.279 And it just seems to me like Twitter, you know, like every day on Twitter, there's something that more or less everyone is talking about, something that there'll be, you know, a report in the newspaper a day later about. 258 00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:52.500 Here's what we're talking about on Twitter today. 259 00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:56.940 And so there is this kind of cyber world that we're all sort of plugged into. 260 00:18:56.940 --> 00:19:05.220 And we all isolate ourselves by creating our own soundscapes, by not interacting with each other. 261 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:07.200 Everyone on the bus is on their phone. 262 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:12.059 And this is the new thing that we're anxious about. 263 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:20.039 And we seem to be kind of, you know, anxious about it in anticipation because it hasn't quite hit yet in 2006, but it is going to hit. 264 00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:22.619 And that's the cyberman. 265 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:29.759 And, you know, keep Pedler's original idea doesn't work anymore as a conception of the cybermen. 266 00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:35.099 And so we have a new reinvention of the cybermen that works really well now. 267 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:42.779 We used the term cyber now in a way that wasn't really current in 1960. 268 00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:49.500 And we have a parallel Earth instead of an upside down Earth that sort of wandered back into our orbit. 269 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.539 I'm sure that's Malaysia. 270 00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:57.660 It's just a trick of the light, my dear, if I stand you the right way. 271 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:00.720 That's Norway. 272 00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:06.359 I do have a question, though, about the AirPods, right? 273 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.319 And the daily update. 274 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.480 What the hell happens to bus drivers? 275 00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:12.720 crane operators and crapees artists. 276 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.940 Bicyclists like myself. 277 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.359 I mean, and if it's a matter of, oh, you know when the daily update's going to come, you pull over, why is that person in the middle of the road? 278 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:23.880 I just, hmm. 279 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:24.420 Yes. 280 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:25.799 Yeah, it doesn't... 281 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:32.759 I mean, that doesn't really work, the all stopping thing, but it is a very sort of quick and handy kind of exposition scene. 282 00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:42.720 The AirPods were, obviously not for the extras, but for the lead actors, were specially fitted, which didn't work and they constantly kept falling out. 283 00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:48.900 And you can see it most in that scene towards the end where Pete is talking to Rose about his marriage. 284 00:20:48.960 --> 00:21:04.380 Sean Dingwall sort of tries to keep his left ear mostly on camera because if he turns, you see the giant fluoro earplug that the AirPods are based off halfway out of his ear and he's sort of angling his head and trying to will it back in. 285 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:10.259 And according to Noel Clark, is like, yeah, that's exactly what Sean Digwall was doing. is like, this is coming out. 286 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:11.339 Can we get through the scene? 287 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.920 Can we get, can we get, can we get, we did it? 288 00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:14.279 Okay. 289 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:16.680 It's the craft, my dear. 290 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:20.819 With sort of rigid plastic earphones, I don't know about anyone else. 291 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:35.279 But if I smile with them, yeah, I can feel them shifting within my ear, and I'm sure that's what they can't take into account with these things is, yeah, when you move your mouth, which you occasionally do as an actor, it's gonna make the AirPods. 292 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:36.900 Pounce up and down. 293 00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:38.460 Billy Piper manage. 294 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.180 She does wear them, but they're fake, you see. 295 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.140 Well, differently. 296 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.660 One grin from her and her ears. 297 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:48.839 And also they couldn't hear each other. 298 00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:51.180 The actor could hear each other. 299 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.759 It's the Gene Wilder thing in, speak no evil, here, no evil. 300 00:21:56.819 --> 00:21:57.839 Or hear no evil. 301 00:21:57.900 --> 00:21:59.640 Speak, no evil, whatever that film is called. 302 00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:03.480 You know, the actors just have to look at each other and, okay, have you finished? 303 00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:04.859 No, sorry, sorry, sorry. 304 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.339 You still going? 305 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:05.640 Okay. 306 00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:11.880 I love that scene at the party. 307 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:17.400 You know, with Rose so angry that she has to serve people food. 308 00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:20.339 Well, again, she's a 2 weeks later. 309 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.180 She needs a bath. 310 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:23.640 I absolutely adore that scene. 311 00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:25.380 It's absolutely one of my favourite things. 312 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:30.180 And it's when you hear Jackie calling for Rose. 313 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:35.160 And I think it's clear a little bit too early that Rose must be a dog from the way that she keeps calling her. 314 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.099 And then the little sort of horrible Yorkie comes in. 315 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.140 It was horrible Yorkie. 316 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:51.000 But the great thing is that Rose is about to go off on a sort of really soulful kind of angsty thing about how her mother in this universe doesn't love her or something. 317 00:22:51.000 --> 00:23:01.980 And then the dog turns up and Tenet just looks at her and herself laughing and completely kind of forestalls any sort of weepy nonsense that was about to take place. 318 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:10.259 I think the scene where Jackie is horrible to Rose is really, really. really hard to watch. 319 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.000 I think it's superb. 320 00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:13.259 This is a real levelling moment. 321 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:21.180 I was going to bring this up with the best thing about the Russell era is that we, you've said it many times, we care about the characters, and that's really what we've missed. 322 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:24.059 We only really got it in seasons 10 and 11. 323 00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:25.559 We've had to wait this long. 324 00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:27.420 Yeah, this long. 325 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:40.380 But the whole thing is that I really didn't care too much when when this Jackie, well, that Jackie disappeared into a rather fabulous rocketeer Art Deco hood ornament suit at the end of the end of the story. 326 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:41.339 Because she's horrible. 327 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:50.160 Well, it's just that I also really loved it and there's the subtleties and nuances of just this is a family and people are awful to each other just as much as they're not, just as much as they're loving. 328 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:53.579 But I really like seeing them both together with a turn again. 329 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:58.319 So I could see it's such a nice bookend to Father's Day. 330 00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:02.339 Well, we now have the roles kind of traversed and that we've got... 331 00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:18.359 I can really see roses, acumen and insight and subtlety as all Pete, but her emotional Sturman Drung and her wilful selfishness is a mother, of course, and they, and they, but we are all all things at once, depending on which we favour. 332 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.559 She's emotionally like parallel universe, Jackie, actually. 333 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:24.599 She looks bloody good too. 334 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:29.700 Yeah, she brings her breasts with her after this episode. full frontal and forward, yes. 335 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:34.140 And according to Camille, she was only 39 during filming. 336 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:40.980 But interestingly enough, Cuba Gooding Jr. who Jackie cites says, we've got the same birthday. 337 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:53.160 Cuba Gooding Jr. was born in 1968. and with Russell's Everything is one year forward in the Tenant era, 2007 would make Jackie 39. 338 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.160 That very cheeky of you Russell. 339 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:57.960 And of course, the cybermen are 40. 340 00:24:58.140 --> 00:24:59.099 Yes. 341 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:00.420 Yes, of course. 342 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:00.720 Yeah. 343 00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:01.859 That's true. 344 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.339 That's true. 345 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:12.779 Something I really love about Jackie and Pete in this episode is, you know, when we last saw Pete in Father's Day, Jackie's quite horrible to him. 346 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:16.980 Deservedly so, from the way he carries on. 347 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:37.920 But there's an implication that Pete's death and having to bring up Rose by herself softens her and not exactly makes her a better person because she was already that person, but gives her perspective she didn't already have, whereas Pete's survival in this universe, which isn't the divergent point because Rose had already been bored by that stage. 348 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:45.660 Pete's survival in this universe makes him more sensitive and Jackie very much still in the Father's Day mode. 349 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:47.099 Is he sensitive though? 350 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.980 He's still whacking a whole lot of Fanta at the kids. 351 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:50.759 Is he? 352 00:25:50.819 --> 00:26:00.000 Yeah, he is dark, but I think we'll see next episode that he's redeemed a bit, you know, when it becomes clear what his actual deal is. 353 00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:00.720 Yeah. 354 00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:01.440 Yeah. 355 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:17.099 Part of the reason I love that scene with Jackie and Rose, where she tells her off, is it's a masterclass from Camille, because when Rose sits down next to her, She wants to open up to this girl. 356 00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:18.660 She doesn't quite know why. 357 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.920 That in itself annoys her and it all plays out on her face. 358 00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:33.119 So she's not just annoyed that this waitress wants to have a word, but she's annoyed at herself because why am I why am I talking to you about how I like my tea? 359 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:42.359 Because self-loathing will demonstrate itself in many different ways and the most is seeing oneself at a younger age, right next to you being sensitive and open. 360 00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:45.359 I don't want to be feeling these things right now. 361 00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:47.519 And how dare you make them? 362 00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:49.259 And also I come from nothing. 363 00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:51.059 And thank you for reminding me of that. 364 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.900 There's no greater snob than those who are self-made. 365 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.079 Yeah, I think that's absolutely right, isn't it? 366 00:26:58.140 --> 00:26:59.220 Oh, exactly. 367 00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:00.539 Jane. 368 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:05.519 Her disdain for staff is self-hatred. you know, in many ways. 369 00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:12.059 Let's talk about Mickey's family. 370 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.640 Oh, that scene. 371 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:16.319 God, Noel is brilliant. 372 00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:17.099 We don't deserve him. 373 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:18.539 It is so great, isn't he? 374 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:20.279 Takes a good slap and two, doesn't he? 375 00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:22.680 Is this the scene in the chair with the undies? 376 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:23.220 Where are we? 377 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:24.420 No, no, no. 378 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.700 So he goes back to visit his grandmother. 379 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:35.099 And it's really interesting because we've never thought to ask about Mickey's family. 380 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.500 He seems to live on the estate on his own. 381 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:42.420 It makes perfect sense that the other boys that we see even when he's in the workshop. 382 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.240 He's indefinitely the beta or the delta. 383 00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:47.220 He's never the alpha male. 384 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.680 And we sort of have to ask himself, well, why is that? 385 00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:55.440 And of course, he doesn't have the confidence that other children had growing up because he didn't have the examples of that. 386 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.339 Yeah. 387 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.400 And it turns out that he's living with just terrible guilt over an accident that happened to his grandmother. 388 00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:19.259 And in fact, I find myself really warming to Rose in that scene where she explains Mickey's background to the doctor and talks about what a great woman his grandmother was and, you know, about Mickey's loss. 389 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:26.880 And it's just one little moment where she's thinking of someone else, where she's not, where she's not being rose wrapped up in herself. 390 00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:28.440 It's nice. 391 00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:38.279 And the, it's actually a little bit horrible when the preachers kind of grab him and leave his grandmother kind of bereft not knowing what's happened to him. 392 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.019 It's great. 393 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:40.980 She's really good. 394 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:52.859 And, you know, all of that stuff early on where the doctor talks about a parallel universe being a honey trap and it's a bad thing for Rose to go and see her parents. 395 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:55.259 And you kind of think, well, why are you even saying that? 396 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:57.180 That's so that seems odd. 397 00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:04.740 And he's so easily defeated by Rose pulling a funny face and he just eventually goes, oh, all right, we'll go and do it. 398 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.680 But in fact, it turns out that he was right. 399 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:18.059 And they will see next week how it leads to the loss of Mickey, the parallel universe is so seductive that we actually lose someone to it. 400 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:26.460 Because it gives us the opportunity to see how we can ourselves be better. 401 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.259 And well, it gives us mindfulness. 402 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:32.160 It gives, it's the, it is the Buddhist uh, Maya. 403 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:36.539 It is the world of the 2nd opportunity or the observant world. 404 00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:45.660 And how often do we have esprit descaglia, do we have staircase, we can look back at what we just said a moment ago, an hour ago, years ago quite often? 405 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:56.279 Everything would have changed if I just hadn't said that in that moment or hadn't been a smart arse or just or had actually just listened to that friend or listened to that person, my whole life would be different. 406 00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:58.380 I can count so many times where that's happened. 407 00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:03.480 In this very podcast, episode after episode. 408 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:20.220 In discovery, the Federation decides to keep the Mirror Universe secret for precisely that reason because the Mirror Universe is presumably full of our friends and loved ones who haven't died. 409 00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.700 And for Mickey and Rose. 410 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:27.539 They have a dead relative that's still alive in this universe. 411 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:31.740 And if only things had gone a different way. 412 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:36.180 So that kind of over the top, you know, this is a terrible, dangerous place. 413 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:37.920 You don't know what you're doing messing with this. 414 00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:39.480 You can't meet your father. 415 00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:41.640 He's not your father, all of that sort of stuff. 416 00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:44.940 It seemed a bit over the top, but it does seem justified, I think. 417 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:57.420 Something I love about Noel in the 1st half of this episode, not just the meeting with his grandmother, which is tear jerking, and I think it's a very smart decision to have Mickey start crying. 418 00:30:58.019 --> 00:31:08.460 Because when we'd previously seen Mickey at the height of despair, it was in Boomtown and he's screaming and this is a very quiet moment instead. 419 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:13.440 But we get a counterpoint to that moment in Boomtown as well, because in Boomtown, he screams at Rose. 420 00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:14.880 It's always the doctor and it's never me. 421 00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:15.420 Yeah. 422 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:19.380 Here he says to the doctor, it's always going to be Rose and it's never me. 423 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.920 But again, it's very quiet when the doctor's deciding who to go after. 424 00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:25.619 Because it's acknowledged and they both admit it. 425 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.279 Yeah. 426 00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:28.019 Well, they're really horrible to him. 427 00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:29.819 Like the opening. 428 00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.720 The opening scene in the TARDIS, he's been standing there pressing a button for half an hour. 429 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:35.279 It's the Leila moment. 430 00:31:35.339 --> 00:31:36.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 431 00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:37.559 It's as nasty. 432 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.759 I thought it was making the magic work. 433 00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:41.880 Yeah, and I know that's what they're harking back to. 434 00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:45.480 And that was just as, can I use the racist word? 435 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:57.119 That was just as you're a primitive person, you don't get where we come from, whether it be a person of colour or just a person of lacked opportunity or just hasn't had our generous experiences. 436 00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:59.339 You haven't been lucky enough to be as smart as we are. 437 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.460 Yeah, yeah, no, they're super horrible. 438 00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:03.299 I can't wait. 439 00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:04.140 I think they're awful. 440 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.539 I hope something genuinely wrong happens to both. 441 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.700 Well, I mean, they lose Mickey at the end of this. 442 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:10.079 You know, they lose. 443 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:11.279 Because they don't deserve to keep it. 444 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:12.839 Because they don't... 445 00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:13.500 Absolutely. 446 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:34.079 Because despite what Mickey goes through there and fun moment on the commentary, because the commentary for this episode is Camille Noel and Andrew Hayden Smith, Camille says, Clarkey, do you think that the doctor knew what he was doing there and you holding that button for half an hour would send you into the parallel universe where you needed to be? 447 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:37.559 Do you think maybe he was manipulating you into that? 448 00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:39.599 And Noel responds. 449 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:47.579 Well, that's entirely possible, of course, because the doctor can see through dimensions, and that's why he's been calling me Ricky since season one. 450 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.039 No one's a massive Doctor Who fan. 451 00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:51.240 That's his head cannon. 452 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:56.400 Because he also then says, because Camille says, how do they know that they're cyberman? 453 00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:03.299 And Noel says, well, Rose hasn't met them before, but in season one, episode six, she saw a cyberhead in Bad Statens Museum. 454 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:05.460 This is literally what he says in the commentary. 455 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:06.059 I love this man. 456 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.680 You shall be like us. 457 00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:33.960 But what I so love about him, and Mickey, in this 1st episode is despite how the doctor and rose treat him, when the doctor is mourning the TARDIS, Mickey actually comes in and sits with him and mimics his body language, which is a basic psychological technique for making someone feel comfortable with you and sort of tries to encourage him. 458 00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:36.539 Oh, but we can hop back between dimensions, that's easy. 459 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.579 We can hook that up to the national grid and get power. 460 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:39.180 We can do this. 461 00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:39.960 We can do this. 462 00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:42.119 And it's just this coaxing of the doctor. 463 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:49.920 So while Rose is off thinking about, oh, how can I meet my dad despite the fact my best friends told me it's a bad idea, and I'm arguing with my designated driver. 464 00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:54.180 Mickey's like, okay, no, you've had a massive loss here. 465 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.259 I get that. 466 00:33:55.319 --> 00:34:01.019 It's like the end of last week where Mickey gets, oh my god, someone he loved is dead. 467 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:03.119 Rose, just shut up and come off. 468 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:03.839 Yeah, yeah. 469 00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:11.579 Yeah, it's the sensitivity of the character and it's something that Russell wanted to explore after Chris persuaded him. 470 00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:12.480 No keep this guy on. 471 00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:17.820 Russell actually sat down with him and said, I am writing Mickey out next series, but here's how I'm going to do it. 472 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:18.480 What do you think? 473 00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:21.119 And I was like, yeah, I'm up for that. 474 00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:24.960 So this script was always envisioned as this is the moment Mickey becomes a hero. 475 00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:38.280 Actually, something Mickey, we haven't discussed, and Richard, I'll throw back to you for this one. 476 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:40.559 He does end up tied to a chair in his pants. 477 00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:46.980 And of course, it's only a few months since the premiere of Casino Royale Redocks. 478 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.719 When are we going to talk about that? 479 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:50.760 We should do a podcast. 480 00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:53.340 When are we doing the James Vaughan commentary podcast? 481 00:34:53.400 --> 00:35:08.940 But it is a lovely nod to, as you said, Russell really gets this zeitgeist, and you might even say he's a little bit premonitory about it, but there's, I actually think it's a take on the sadistic level of the general take on what is sauciness now. 482 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:16.500 And you can really look at this against, say, the carry-ons of the 60s, which we really ought to discuss at some point. 483 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:26.760 And how what was humourous and what was au current then is now salacious and darker. 484 00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:31.980 We're getting older, but and we've grown up, but not necessarily in the way that our parents had hoped. 485 00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:49.619 Do you think it's like, you know, in the 80s, Nissa drops a skirt when she leaves the program and Turlow sheds his trousers before leaving the program and so Mickey's about to go, so they strip him down to his undies, you know, because we've only got one more chance to have Noel in the show. 486 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:54.420 I think they have a lot to Kenny Everett and other Phillips hot gossip as well. 487 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.099 It's very British postcard humour. 488 00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:03.000 But yes, no, I definitely believe that again, as we've said many times, Doctor Who is at its best when it's reflecting what's going on around it. 489 00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.039 And this is definitely it. 490 00:36:05.099 --> 00:36:08.039 What do we think of Noel's performance as Ricky? 491 00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:16.559 It's pretty flawless in that it's, I feel, in that it's exactly what a homespun boy would be doing, is overcompensating. 492 00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:22.079 So yes, it's hyperbolic and over the top, but I think it's actually a very nice counterfoil for tenants. 493 00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:29.340 And I would like to think that Noel was actually taking a little of the mixture it against our 10 hour David. 494 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:33.480 With the sort of snarling and baring his teeth and things, possibly. 495 00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:41.340 Mickey is a character who's changed so much from his initial conception and Noel has always managed to keep a track of that and keep a handle on it. 496 00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:50.579 So he has this other character to create Ricky and he has one line to sell the facts that this is a different person. 497 00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.079 What am I doing here? 498 00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:53.039 What am I doing there? 499 00:36:53.099 --> 00:36:53.760 Yeah. 500 00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.460 So, yeah, I agree. 501 00:36:56.519 --> 00:37:00.840 In that moment, it's over the top, but it's over the top because, as you say, Richard, he's overcompensating. 502 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:04.860 We discover next week what he is London's most wanted for. 503 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.219 And you know, it's not for robbing banks or anything like that. 504 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:15.119 So yeah, it's a performance of bravado, but from someone who is genuinely brave anyway. 505 00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:23.039 You know, it's not, it's not a bravado born of cowardice, but it's a bravado born of, I need to own this room. 506 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:27.539 And also something really weird's just happened, and I still need to own this room. 507 00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:32.280 Um, We've got the other 2 members of the preachers as well. 508 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:37.739 We've got Jake played by Andrew Hayden Smith, who was 22. 509 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:39.239 No way. 510 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.820 And Mrs. Moore. 511 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:47.760 Oh, I think we'll talk about Mrs. Moore a lot more next week because that's when she really gets to shine. 512 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:49.559 She's really great. 513 00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:55.559 Jake is obviously there quite early on to see the homeless people getting hoovered up. 514 00:37:55.619 --> 00:38:01.679 And it's amazing watching this again, how much this story owes to the invasion. 515 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:13.800 So the invasion, uh, we get international electromatics mentioned here, they're on the side of the uh, big truck that the homeless people are going into. 516 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:28.440 But Tobias Vaughan's plan was to take over the world by giving everyone a small electronic device, a music player that would eventually make a noise that would, you know, take over everyone's mind. 517 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.260 And that's exactly the plan here. 518 00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:36.780 And it's a long story set on sort of a near future earth. 519 00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:38.159 It really is very similar. 520 00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:42.420 Yeah, and also Graham Harper, specifically sites. 521 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.880 His mentor, Douglas Canfield. 522 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:45.659 Right, okay. 523 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.400 As his influence here. 524 00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:49.139 And of course, Douglas Canfield directed the invasion. 525 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.420 It's a similar style too, they both have, yeah. 526 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:58.980 There are certain shots that Harper says, yep, that's because that's the kind of thing doggie did. 527 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:07.860 They work together specifically on the seeds of doom. and possibly other stories, but also that is why the cybermen march in time. 528 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.380 Harper said, I want that. 529 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:20.940 And in order to achieve that, The choreographer Alsa Burke, 1st of all, auditioned 20 actors and then whittled it down to 10 actors who could actually stomp and march. 530 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:26.699 But then she got to set and discovered how restrictive the vision in the costumes were. 531 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:32.639 So after Cybermen got into formation. they tied them together with rubber bands at the wrist. 532 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:34.079 Really? 533 00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:37.019 Because they couldn't see each other to stay in formation. 534 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.960 They could just use the sensation of their own. that's how tense it should be. 535 00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:44.340 And that's how they stayed in that sort of bowling pin formation that they have. 536 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:45.900 We're feeling it now. 537 00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:47.400 What do I think? 538 00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:49.199 What do we actually think of the Cyberman? 539 00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:53.460 I mean, he keeps them out of shot or like out of focus? 540 00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:58.199 Yeah, until the end of episode one reveal, really. 541 00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:00.179 Well, it's Will Eisnett design. 542 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.440 I mean, it is the rocketeer. 543 00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:05.579 It is those gorgeous deco things, which is never far away from our thoughts. 544 00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:16.139 And his style, as I was trying to say before, is very 30s, 40s, and the filming, especially with the big Vista pullback shots, and, you know, those grand sweeping, melodramatic, emotional shots. 545 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:17.880 Yeah, he's he's deaf. 546 00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:19.860 It really is flawless with the direction. 547 00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:24.300 That's what makes me happiest when editing direction design is there. 548 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.840 And then the actors are free to do exactly what they need to do and they're not. 549 00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:32.159 They're supported because I really probably care about the former more than the latter. 550 00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:40.559 I mean, they've gone away from that sort of 70s design, and from the invasion design, with a big bun head. 551 00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:47.579 Well, he did say he didn't, he, he's really tired of that whole Harley Berry wetsuit paints all the thing, isn't he? 552 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:52.199 Yeah, so they're very much, and they're very much steel rather than silver. 553 00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:55.260 He's very definite that they're... 554 00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:57.420 Oh yeah, that's right. fibreglass. 555 00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:58.739 I feel that heavy. 556 00:40:58.800 --> 00:40:59.280 No. 557 00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:03.119 But no, they clunk beautifully and how do we feel about the flares? 558 00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:07.440 speaking as nods to the 70s. think it's got an anime feel to it. 559 00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:10.980 Because the original design had the shin pieces turned the other way. 560 00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:11.639 Right. 561 00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:15.480 So, well, more so, so they had nice tapered mod ankles. 562 00:41:15.659 --> 00:41:18.360 Oh, God, yes, disco ankles. 563 00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:20.699 Yeah, it does sort of flare out. 564 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.500 And I'm on the fence about that. 565 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:28.980 Sometimes I think the overall design is a little bit too layered and sometimes I look at it and think, oh, that's just right. 566 00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:30.539 So I think it's all dependent on angles. 567 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:35.159 The faces, um, are based on the Chrysler building, uh, incidentally. 568 00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:40.679 And yeah, there is a bodysuit element underneath that looks like tubes, which I think is wonderful. 569 00:41:40.739 --> 00:41:43.739 Overall, I like the design. 570 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:52.079 I miss the wetsuit a bit because my favourite design is the invasion design, but I get why you can't have that today. 571 00:41:52.139 --> 00:42:02.760 It's a bit like if you look at Star Trek, even though the Borg are based on a full bodysuit, they then cover it with layers and layers and layers of like tubes, pieces. 572 00:42:02.820 --> 00:42:03.659 Yeah. 573 00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:09.059 And I'm glad we went with a uniformed look because as the doctor says next week, ooh, they're a brand. 574 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:18.780 And so, yes, of course, they look sleek and they, you know, they look like technology you could have in your home, like one of those shin pieces could be like an Alexa. 575 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:26.280 But I do like, I like the idea that they are hefty and invulnerable. 576 00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:30.719 And I think that that fits thematically with where we go next week. 577 00:42:30.780 --> 00:42:33.539 And one of the things that Russell said. 578 00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:37.920 I think Russell tended to give the designers real freedom to do what they wanted. 579 00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:43.860 And he said, we obviously need the head handles because that's, you know, what the cybermen are. 580 00:42:43.860 --> 00:42:50.039 And he wanted the teardrop, which I think appears 1st in wheel in space. 581 00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:51.900 I believe it does. 582 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:52.440 Yeah. 583 00:42:52.559 --> 00:43:00.059 And again, for that very reason of what's going to happen next week because the actors can't see out of the main eye. 584 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:06.900 No, but it's it's about, is that the reason that probably is the reason they're there in Wheeling Space? 585 00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:15.900 Because it's about the way that we isolate ourselves from each other through this technology. 586 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.739 And so the teardrop thing is, you know, about tears. 587 00:43:19.739 --> 00:43:26.099 And in the end of the year, we'll see a tear, a teardrop and oil teardrop coming out of Tracy Ann Cyberman's eye. 588 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:30.300 She didn't get picked up for that next season at EastEnders, did you? 589 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:31.320 tearing in. 590 00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:32.400 Well, that's a 2nd mortgage. 591 00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:39.719 So let's talk about the cliffhanger, okay? 592 00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:40.800 We're at the party. 593 00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:41.760 It's huge. 594 00:43:41.820 --> 00:43:44.219 We have the president of Great Britain. 595 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.320 Don Warrington. 596 00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:48.900 Yeah, big finishes wrestle on. 597 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:50.760 I was going to say, in an alternative universe. 598 00:43:50.820 --> 00:43:51.900 James Bond. 599 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:54.239 We really should talk about that one day. 600 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:55.920 And on a podcast. 601 00:43:56.340 --> 00:44:04.800 Also, he was the actor that Noel Clark saw as a little boy and thought, oh, maybe I can be on television. 602 00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:06.659 Department of S? 603 00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:07.800 Rising Damp. 604 00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:08.340 Rising? 605 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:09.239 Oh, he was. 606 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.679 And he was a proper hottie in that. 607 00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:11.519 Yes, yes, he was. 608 00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:11.880 Yes. 609 00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:14.400 And he'd done some ITC stuff as well. 610 00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:15.900 But yeah, much like, yeah. 611 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.300 Yeah, for Koto, are you going to say? 612 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:25.920 Much like Yasmin Bannerman and Gisette Simon, seeing she's at Simon and thinking, oh, there's a black woman on television. 613 00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:27.119 I can be on television. 614 00:44:27.179 --> 00:44:32.579 Noel Clark saw Don Warrington and said, oh, there's a black man on television and he's a main character and he's sympathetic and likeable. 615 00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:35.460 He's really got the gravitas for the role as well. 616 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:41.280 He is terrific. when he when he dresses down Roger Lloyd Pax's character. 617 00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:42.719 He's so impressive. 618 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:43.860 He's really, really good. 619 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:51.900 And that's, of course, why he has to be killed at the party because he's standing in the way of the sort of his sort of cyber thing. 620 00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:57.179 He's actually the chunky beefy Obama we got before we got. 621 00:44:57.719 --> 00:44:59.460 Limlined Madmen version. 622 00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:06.239 It's funny, but every single year Russell kills the Prime Minister of Great Britain. 623 00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:08.460 Oh my Lord, he really does. 624 00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:08.940 Wow. 625 00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:12.300 Can we get him back chippers? 626 00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:18.420 Yeah, chippers could take a year off and we could get we could get him back to deal with the current mares. 627 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:25.500 And then in his last year, he replaces the president of America with the Prime Minister of Great Britain. 628 00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:26.760 Yeah, who gets killed again? 629 00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:27.420 Who gets killed again? 630 00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:27.840 Yeah. 631 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:38.039 So, yes, literally every year Russell kills the Prime Minister, which is a tradition that I'm sad has not been picked up by his successes. 632 00:45:38.099 --> 00:45:40.199 Who's the Prime Minister this week? 633 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:42.420 Charles Jones. 634 00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:43.619 That's it. 635 00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:45.179 I don't know. been gone 18 months. 636 00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:49.679 I have 2 questions about the Clefhanger. 637 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:55.679 First of all, why do the cybermen need consent exactly when they're going to control people with AirPods? 638 00:45:55.739 --> 00:45:57.420 Yeah, no, that's crazy. 639 00:45:57.480 --> 00:45:59.639 Well, because there's a terms of agreement. 640 00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:01.619 Oh, right. 641 00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:03.599 No one ever reads. 642 00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:06.300 The human senti pad still can't read. 643 00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:08.039 Yes, that's it. the Euler. 644 00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:19.260 And also, when we when we do get to the cliffhanger, which is beautifully directed by Graham Harper, although it suffers from the Prometheus thing of you know you can run sideways. 645 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.639 Title. 646 00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:28.260 What the hell is maximum deletion? 647 00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.980 Given that deleting involves electrocuting you to death anyway. 648 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:33.179 That's an auton line. 649 00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:34.139 Where... 650 00:46:34.139 --> 00:46:34.800 No, you remember. 651 00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:36.780 That's a... 652 00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:37.980 That's when you reverse that. 653 00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:38.400 Yes. 654 00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:39.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 655 00:46:39.059 --> 00:46:40.679 Destroy maximum destruction. 656 00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:41.460 Yeah, fair enough. 657 00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.579 Yeah, and I suppose as we don't see maximum deletion. 658 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:44.880 Yeah. 659 00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:45.420 Okay, good. 660 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:46.380 I'm satisfied now. 661 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.860 But what about that gallant man at the party who is being electrocuted? 662 00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:54.780 and so grabs his girlfriend so she gets electrocuted as well because both of them. 663 00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:01.980 That's not well till death do us part means love. kill a lot of people at that party. satisfying. 664 00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:02.519 It's great. 665 00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:03.780 There's no one there you want to talk to. 666 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:04.559 No, no. 667 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:14.460 Harper wanted 100 people at the party and the casting agent, not Andy Pryor, but Andy Pryor's assistant said, um, how about 20? 668 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.159 Which they make work brilliantly? 669 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.280 Keeping them all in the four, yeah. 670 00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:25.679 And according to Camille, the people who owned the house. 671 00:47:25.739 --> 00:47:27.179 It was their family home. 672 00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.519 And they were absolutely lovely. 673 00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:34.079 Like, she thought, oh, you know, better be on best behaviour because she made a bit of jewellery, didn't she? 674 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:36.599 whole stone lion. 675 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:47.880 But yeah, apparently they were so thrilled for Doctor Who to be filming there, how times will change for Amy Pond's house in a few years, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. 676 00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:16.320 Well, there was her at Flight through Entirety. 677 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:24.119 We love a good party, and so we'll be spending the next seven days hiding in the cupboard, drinking Pete Tyler's champagne and trying to avoid the cybermen. 678 00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:27.119 We'll be back next week for the age of steel. 679 00:48:27.300 --> 00:48:35.460 In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE Podcast on Twitter. 680 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:54.840 You can also find us at our series 11 flashcast, Jody Interterterra, which is at Jody Interterra.com, Jody Interterra on Apple Podcasts, and at Jody Interterra on Twitter, and at our James Bond Commentary podcast, Bondfinger, which is at bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. 681 00:48:54.900 --> 00:49:00.480 Until next time, remember that your brain is the most valuable thing in the universe. 682 00:49:00.539 --> 00:49:06.480 Apart from Spectrox and Jethric and Argonite and gravel. 683 00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:08.880 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 684 00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:10.800 I love my silly tone mug. 685 00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:11.219 Good night. 686 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:12.179 Good then. 687 00:49:16.619 --> 00:49:21.719 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 688 00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:25.380 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Allberg. 689 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:31.559 This episode, Horrible Yorkie, was recorded on the 2nd of February 2019 and released on the 14th of April. 690 00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:45.780 Fans of FDE will be delighted to learn that to commemorate this episode of the podcast, Star Wars 9, The Rise of Cider Man will be released in cinemas on 20th of December this year. 691 00:49:48.840 --> 00:50:03.480 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast from a parallel universe where every beloved Doctor Who classic is... racist. is actually really racist. 692 00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:08.579 Oh, well, the entire time vortex has collapsed. 693 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:11.159 Let me say that again, because I pronounce the word vortex wrong. 694 00:50:11.219 --> 00:50:13.679 The entire fuck. 695 00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:15.960 Oh, please let that keep that. 696 00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:18.000 Brandon's so good at this. 697 00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:21.780 Why can't we be from a parallel universe where Brendan still does the intro? 698 00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:25.031 The entire time vortex has collapsed and we...