WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:16:49 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:43.920 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, broadcast live from Battersea Power Station. 2 00:00:43.979 --> 00:00:46.859 And it smells like bacon in here for some reason. 3 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:48.240 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:49.079 I'm Brandon. 5 00:00:49.140 --> 00:00:51.000 Aren't we warm and delicious? 6 00:00:51.060 --> 00:01:02.280 And for this one, I would therefore be a, oh, Henry Hoover tubing Mr. Snuffleupagus oesophagus comfy armchair with interducting. 7 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:04.439 I was sitting comfortably. 8 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:18.120 Oh, so we've been cowering in a cupboard all week while the sidemen have been rampaging through this lovely house, but the champagne's run out now, so it must be time to emerge blinking into the sunlight to find out what Great Britain is like during the age of steel. 9 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:33.180 So, what do we think of the Cliffhanger Resolution? 10 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:48.359 It's very Disney, so it actually does kind of work when this Disney parallel universe thing, that it's a lovely chunky piece of jewellery that, you know, ends up being, I just felt like it was suddenly dunked into frozen. 11 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:56.099 It's a little bit easy, but it is set up for people complain that Russell doesn't set things up properly and that they just get pulled out of thin air. 12 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:57.599 What else are they going to bloody do? 13 00:01:57.659 --> 00:01:58.379 Yeah, well that's right. 14 00:01:58.439 --> 00:01:59.640 Pull out an eye patch. 15 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.180 Do you want to meld a cyborg? 16 00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:11.159 Yeah, look, it's still the doctor killing them all with a big gun. 17 00:02:11.219 --> 00:02:14.879 You know, it's seeds of death again. a huge mood ring, isn't it? 18 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:30.300 But that being said, it is the thing of the doctor gives them a chance to take them away to the factory where, you know, presumably he can then get away and this episode would only be about 10 minutes long. without overtly being, I'm going to give you a chance here. 19 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:42.060 Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to get out of the cliffhanger and in a way, it's the same solution as the beginning of World War 3. 20 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:48.300 But, you know, this time, this time it's more refined just because it's better shot and better directed. 21 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:53.639 It is the same. you're absolutely right It is going down into the bales. 22 00:02:53.699 --> 00:02:57.000 In fact, it's actually the MOD where that room is. 23 00:02:57.060 --> 00:03:01.259 Do you know there is actually a room like that, but it's in the MOD, which we know from listening to the news quiz. 24 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:07.860 And we know that Sherry Blair changed, you know, when Theresa May said, what do you think about all the furniture to the woman who's on the news? 25 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:22.020 And she said, well, it's all right, I suppose. you know, she said, bitch, John Lewis, she said, Cherry Blair made us get rid of all the nice 60s, mid-century modern, and go to John Lewis and get all this comfy furniture, which is exactly an illusion to Roger Lloyd Pax's comfy aunt. 26 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:35.280 I think that this episode is vastly different from the previous one, and they've learned the lesson, that the 2 episodes of a single story have to be quite different. 27 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:40.919 And this one doesn't revisit any of the places where we've been before, we never go back to the house. 28 00:03:40.979 --> 00:03:48.120 We do see Jackie sort of lurking in the like lurking in a cupboard just next to the one we were in. 29 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:50.699 I was hoping Rose would become a cyber mat. 30 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:52.620 Really disappointed. 31 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:55.199 Little rose. 32 00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:57.300 That would be great. 33 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.560 Just crawling around on Jackie's shoulder, cyber Jackie. 34 00:04:01.740 --> 00:04:20.459 The cybernization of Jackie is quite harrowing and, 1st of all, forgot to mention last week, Camille gets a wonderful scream when she sees a cyberman, you know, recalling when she 1st sees an auton and Camille just has the most wonderful terrified scream. 35 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:22.560 It's theatrical, it's loud. 36 00:04:22.620 --> 00:04:26.220 It is pleasing to the ear, like it's musically pleasing. 37 00:04:26.339 --> 00:04:28.439 It's the un Mariah Carey. 38 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:29.759 All the time. 39 00:04:29.819 --> 00:04:30.360 Yes. 40 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:35.759 I just think having the mother as a damsel in distress is great. 41 00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:42.540 You know, companions are getting more and more competent and less and less screamy because we find that irritating. 42 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.319 And so instead you've got the mother who can be threatened by monsters and scream. 43 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:54.540 And what is so horrible is that Pete is going to run back in to save her and the doctor says anyone in that house is dead. 44 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.339 And she's wrong. not. 45 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:56.819 He's wrong. 46 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:57.300 Exactly. 47 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:02.220 And in fact, a whole heap of survivors walk out of the house and head off to Battersea Power Station later. 48 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:03.660 He's completely wrong. 49 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:05.759 He's just leaving them, those rich guys. 50 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:08.759 Yeah, you have to wonder... 51 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:12.060 It's not actually about saving his own skin. 52 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:13.560 It's about saving Pete. 53 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:15.839 And that's that's very interesting. 54 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:19.860 You know, he's been saying to Rose, no, no, no, you can't go near him. you't have anything to do with him. 55 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.079 And yet he saves Pete. 56 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:27.660 I think that's the whole pertly thing of once your, it actually goes back to Billy, doesn't it? 57 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:28.920 I mean, Trout and did it all the time. 58 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:29.939 Well, no, we mustn't get involved. 59 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:30.839 Oh, we're involved now. 60 00:05:30.899 --> 00:05:31.620 Yes. 61 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.220 Well, we talked last week about how a parallel universe is a honey pot. 62 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:36.480 Like it's a trap. 63 00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:43.740 And it's a trap for the doctor as well because now there are monsters and he's desperate to investigate and that's what gets him involved. 64 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:45.899 It's what gets him to go to the party. 65 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:47.579 He's not going to the party to see Pete. 66 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.939 He's going to the party because he's fascinated by what's going on. 67 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.100 It is very AML, isn't it? 68 00:05:53.220 --> 00:05:54.000 Much like this recording. 69 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:59.220 And so often here we've all removed everything, save our red t-shirts and honey jones. 70 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.339 So Jake and Ricky, they're totally gay, right? 71 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:13.740 Or do they only do it on the cutting room floor? 72 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:14.579 Yeah. 73 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:18.839 Look, I think that Andrew Hayden Smith totally plays it that way. 74 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.959 Noel does and he doesn't in a way. 75 00:06:22.019 --> 00:06:26.160 It's kind of codified as a Butch and Femme dynamic, really. 76 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:26.879 Yeah. 77 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.699 We all know who's the ostensible top. 78 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:32.160 It's the actual bottom in the chair. 79 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:33.779 It's always the femme, isn't it? 80 00:06:35.459 --> 00:06:38.639 No, I think they do really top, yes. 81 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:40.680 They do play it that way. 82 00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:41.759 Jumping straight to the end. 83 00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:46.199 I'm glad they cut the line that confirms them. 84 00:06:46.259 --> 00:06:46.800 Me too. 85 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:47.819 Why are you gleb? 86 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:57.839 Just because it's too much of a gag about your boyfriend who's just died and I don't envy Andrew Hayden Smith, because how do you deliver that line? 87 00:06:57.899 --> 00:07:06.839 You know, if you deliver it really sadly, and it's the last or 2nd last season of the episode, then it's a downbeat ending. 88 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:12.779 If you deliver it too lightly as kind of happens, you are demeaning the relationship. 89 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:23.519 And for those of you who aren't aware, pretty much, there's a deleted scene where after Mickey says, I'm not replacing Ricky, Jake responds, no, you're not, I'll never have another boyfriend like him. 90 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:24.420 Right. 91 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:34.800 It's too glib, and that Phil Collinson and Julie Gardiner, actually, said, no, that's the reason we're cutting it, because it hasn't, this is the 1st time it's made explicit. we're making it explicit as a joke. 92 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:37.199 Is that actually the reason? 93 00:07:37.259 --> 00:07:39.839 Look, I'm impressed if that is the case? 94 00:07:39.899 --> 00:07:59.759 I am going back to my Peter Davison defence, Janet Fielding would probably back me up on this one, is that you remember why Peter left Twitter because he made a remark that the doctor needs to be, we need more role models for little straight boys because there's actually not enough sensitive straight characters out there. 95 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:01.800 And, you know, hello, Gillette had. 96 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:04.500 He could actually be saying something that has pertinence here. 97 00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:08.519 And although I probably, you know, I get where Peter's coming from. 98 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:13.439 And I'm surprised to find myself agreeing on this case. 99 00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:19.259 I like that this is still for children 12 and under when I fell in love with Doctor Who. 100 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:20.639 It wasn't as an adult. 101 00:08:20.699 --> 00:08:22.199 It was at that very sensitive age. 102 00:08:22.259 --> 00:08:31.259 And I like that we, as little boys of whatever, you know, sexuality you're going to end up with can simply appreciate it on whatever level you choose to. 103 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:32.100 Yeah. 104 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:36.779 I certainly it's the intelligence and emotional intelligence to take this as we will. 105 00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:42.960 I certainly think that the deletion of that line, and I wasn't aware of that or I had forgotten it. 106 00:08:43.019 --> 00:08:47.460 The deletion of that line doesn't prevent us from reading it that way if we want to. 107 00:08:47.519 --> 00:09:02.519 As gay people, we used to reading ourselves into texts all the time, and it is kind of irresistible, and we get to imagine the story where, you know, your boyfriend is replaced by someone. 108 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:04.379 I think I've seen that film. video. 109 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:15.000 And certainly, when Mickey says at the very end in the van, it must be really hard for you me having the same face as him. 110 00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:21.299 Like, I think there's there's very good grounds for just assuming that that's what he's talking about. 111 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.519 Yeah, like your friend is dead. 112 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:25.799 Yeah, but I can be your friend is dead. 113 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:27.000 It can be your boyfriend, is dead. 114 00:09:27.059 --> 00:09:31.259 Yeah, I think you have, you know, like I was fairly certain that that's what they were going for. 115 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.019 I didn't know that there was a version where they make it explicit. 116 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:34.440 Yes. 117 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:35.940 Is it filmed or... 118 00:09:35.940 --> 00:09:36.419 It's filmed. 119 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.539 It's on the it's on the DVD in the the blurry. 120 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:40.200 Okay. 121 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:41.220 It's there. 122 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:42.840 It was cut out during editing. 123 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:43.679 Right. 124 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:45.299 So it was filmed. 125 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:49.200 And also, you know, Knowles, rather Mickey's reaction to that. 126 00:09:49.259 --> 00:09:54.360 It's not gay panic, but it's okay, definitely not replacing it. 127 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:58.740 Which, you know, is funny until you think, and your boyfriend's dead. 128 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:00.539 Yeah, no, it's too harsh. 129 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.379 It's too quick. 130 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.600 Certainly he plays it that way too, doesn't he? 131 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:08.340 Yeah, when he finds out that Ricky's dead, spoiler alert. 132 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.799 Yeah, Andrew Hayden Smith in that moment. 133 00:10:10.860 --> 00:10:17.220 And what I love, what I love about Graham Harper's direction is he allows the guest actors. 134 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:19.559 When it's their moment, it is their moment. 135 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:24.000 They are front and centre at the shot, they are facing the camera, you are seeing the emotion. 136 00:10:24.059 --> 00:10:31.379 Like when he tells Mickey to shut up and turn away, Mickey's the one talking, but Jake is the one in focus. 137 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:34.320 We've all learnt from Mark Strickson, haven't we? 138 00:10:34.379 --> 00:10:35.340 That's it. 139 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.080 Keep your face on screen, love. 140 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:50.100 One of the things this series does, and one of the things that I miss about Doctor Who now is that it romanticises London, it enchants London. 141 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:51.000 Really does, doesn't it? 142 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:55.139 Yeah, so it puts things in secret places in London. 143 00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:00.000 So you've got unit in the Tower of London, when we think about number 10. 144 00:11:00.299 --> 00:11:09.480 It's a place where the Slovene, where the London Eye was used as a broadcaster for the autons, the Thames barrier, becomes a thing in the Runaway Bride. 145 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:12.539 And here we've got Battersea Power Station. 146 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:16.679 And maybe our Australian listeners aren't familiar with it. 147 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:21.240 It does appear briefly on camera in Dalek Invasion of Earth. 148 00:11:21.299 --> 00:11:25.200 And it's a hugely striking visible building. 149 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:35.700 And in this version of London, the entire population is marching towards Battersea Power Station to get sawn up and turned into cybermen. 150 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.139 And I just think it's wonderful. 151 00:11:37.259 --> 00:11:43.019 I just used to, you know, every time I go to London and see the building, that's what I think of. 152 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:50.159 Imagine living in London as a kid and seeing it on the train as you go past all the time. 153 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.539 I used to see it every morning because I lived in North London, but I worked in North Kent. 154 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:59.279 So I had to tube down to Victoria and catch the train from there. 155 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:01.980 And yeah, yeah, it is such a striking building. 156 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:11.399 And the romanticisation of London is interesting because years ago I was having a chat with a friend of mine who is a West End set designer and so lives in London. 157 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:19.799 And he was complaining about usage of Cardiff and Newport and Swansea as streets in London. 158 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.879 And Graham Harper, of the Coventry for this, points out that last scene on the embankment. 159 00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:29.940 If you are facing the TARDIS, you're in Cardiff, if you are facing the river, you're in London. 160 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.320 He's like, I had to shoot the scene in both locations to do the cuts between. 161 00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:41.519 But this friend of mine was saying, oh, you know, I, that street Donna walks down in, in turn left, I know that's not in London. 162 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.639 And I said to him, Doctor Who is an international program. 163 00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:46.559 I don't know that's not London. 164 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.580 The story tells me it's London, so I believe it's London. 165 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.120 And I said to him, it's the Avengers thing of a fantasy Britain. 166 00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:54.659 Yes. 167 00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:57.840 You know, Emma Peel's flat is nowhere in London. 168 00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:03.659 The exterior is a set. but it's London Because I've stood there called out for her. 169 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.440 The one with the karyatids in the yeah, in the black and white season. 170 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:09.000 It's a gorgeous building too. 171 00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:12.240 And I've done that to Pat McNee as well. 172 00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:15.480 Well, yeah, but the, you know, the 5 Westminster Muse thing too. 173 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:17.340 And I wasn't escorted from the premises. 174 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.600 It is a TV version of London. 175 00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:24.539 You know, and that's what Doctor Who should do with locations. 176 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.639 It is a TV version of that location. 177 00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:34.259 And of course, we have an extra level of fictionalisation being in this alternative universe with Zeppelins flying about. 178 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:36.600 Actually, yeah, sorry, I'm back on the AirPod update. 179 00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:38.460 What are the Zeppelin pilots do? 180 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.500 How do they stop playing? 181 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:44.820 Because when we see them flying through the sky, they're all sort of higgledy-peldy, there's no skyways. 182 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:46.259 I'm really cross. 183 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.620 I really like the Zeppelins. 184 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:50.639 I think they look great. 185 00:13:50.700 --> 00:14:01.860 And so we've got that image of Battersea Power Station with Lumic Zeppelin kind of moored to the roof and it's a huge important image for the entire episode. 186 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.879 And I just think it's superb. 187 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.460 It's so imaginative and so wonderful. 188 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.080 And so kind of terrifying. 189 00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:16.919 I mean, because we're in a parallel universe, you know, the last parallel universe we're in, we destroyed by fire. 190 00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:23.279 This one we're allowed to just hoover up the population of London and turn them all into cyberman. 191 00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:25.500 And I think it's just terrific. 192 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:26.220 It's so great. 193 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:33.480 It does feel with British SF really, actually going back to HG Wells. 194 00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:36.419 It's always been precient of its own downfall. 195 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:47.639 It's almost as if it wanted this that we're going through right now, the B word, that would, Yeah, that there's this sense of self-determination of dystopia. 196 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:49.799 British SF has always done this really well. 197 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:53.460 You know, the nation that gave us all is Huxley and George Orwell. 198 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.100 Yeah, and Wyndham as well, who destroys London too. 199 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.500 A couple of times, actually. 200 00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:03.360 And the very, very 1st time the show goes back to London. 201 00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:05.039 It's a destroyed London. 202 00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:05.879 It is too. 203 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.679 With no elephants. 204 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.980 In terms of the massive cyber conversion. 205 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:21.840 Something that was made explicit in an earlier draft of the script, but is reduced to sort of a one-line thing here. 206 00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:24.419 It's actually last week, but I forgot to mention it. 207 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:31.679 Lumic and Cyrus Industries is referred to as working on homelessness in New South America. 208 00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:44.580 The original draft script had reference to a quarter of a 1000000 people going missing in New South America, and there's references later here that there's other cybers factories around the world processing people. 209 00:15:44.700 --> 00:16:01.019 So the idea is that Lumic trial cyber conversion somewhere away from Great Britain, and of course, remember, in the pre-title sequence last week, which was hurriedly added at a later stage. 210 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:01.980 It was a reshoot. 211 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.519 The original Cliffhanger was my dad's still alive, bang into titles. 212 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:10.440 But Russell's like, no, we need the cybermen up front and the centre because it's called Rise of the Cybermen. 213 00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:14.220 And clearly that said a lot earlier than the rest of the thing. 214 00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:16.740 And it has him going back to Great Britain. 215 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:26.639 Set course for Great Britain, but importantly, he only wants to proceed if Great Britain can be the centre of it, because Pete says there's other countries we can try it, we can try New Germany. 216 00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:27.899 No, Britain is the motherland. 217 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.960 You know, it must be here. 218 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.759 B word B word. 219 00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:34.139 Um, yeah. 220 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:42.960 And that's enhanced here because he goes after London, you know, we don't hear people are walking from Coventry to London. 221 00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:43.679 No. 222 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:48.179 Do you think it's trading on that sort of British fascism thing? 223 00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:52.440 Well, the Oswald Mosley with a Mitford in the room. 224 00:16:52.500 --> 00:17:08.759 Yeah, you've always got the tichotomy of high and low and of received and formalised and certain in the old, you know, the charming old English country house, right in the middle of an ice age where everyone's wearing zip up shower's jetsuits. 225 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.660 You've always got something frightening happening with it. 226 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.599 Yeah, yeah, fascism and fascism and the ruling class. 227 00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.299 Look, we forget Britain's not that different from France. 228 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:22.319 They had a civil war to the point that they dug up the pretenders. 229 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:26.279 They dug up the skeleton of Cromwell and hung the bloody thing. 230 00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:28.500 So that they don't get over things well. 231 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:33.900 It has a long memory of supremacy, of having an empire. 232 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:40.559 Because you've got a very, very stratified society in this parallel world. 233 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:41.880 Because that's what I was trying to say. 234 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:55.259 If you want to, the perfect cocktail, get out your shakers, if you want delicious fascism in your own home, you start off with fond memories of an empire gone and a heavily stratified society that isn't quite running as it used to. 235 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.559 And you know, Zeppelins are German, you know, funny though. 236 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.259 Yeah, so maybe there is some sort of fascism here. 237 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:08.460 It's not just about consumerism and isolating ourselves from our feelings through technology and things. 238 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:10.619 What is fascism? 239 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.500 I mean, this is why it's so pressing for this. 240 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:14.579 It's certainly fashionable. 241 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.680 It's true that it always looks swanky. 242 00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:20.279 It's no surprise that Hugo Boss designed every single little outfit. 243 00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:21.420 Yeah. 244 00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:27.900 So if you look at how fascism becomes popular, it's because it's really one of the 1st exercises in successful branding. 245 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.519 We have a look, we have a spiel, funny that we would use that word. 246 00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:43.500 We have nostalgia, we have the painful memory of loss of something that was once and always a misaligned memory of greatness. 247 00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:56.339 There's usually an empire that's fallen not that recently that allows fascism to rise and that we want to regain, but it's always in the most perfect stratified and very manufactured in that it's a tooling thing. 248 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:09.059 It comes from a post-industrial state where we have very much classification of people as consumers and what ability you have to consume, dictates what level you are in this new society. 249 00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:16.920 Yeah, and it's funny you should mention with sort of Hugo Bos, you know, designing the Nazi uniforms. 250 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:26.160 Of course, these are the most designed cybermen we have, and they are designed to look beautiful and desirable and streamlined and streamlined. 251 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.160 And they're branded with a corporate logo. 252 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:32.519 And they're branded with, like, even the doctor says, you know, cyber, it's a brand. 253 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:44.640 Something I love about the old cybermen is, of course, they had bespoke pieces on them, but they looked slightly cobbled together, whereas no, these cybermen have their excretia together. 254 00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:46.920 You know, they... 255 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.779 This is how they look. 256 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.059 And this is how they will look worldwide. 257 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:57.960 You know, it's a bit like this Apple sell the same iPhone exterior wise in every country. 258 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.759 Samsung have the same design features, everywhere, everywhere you go. 259 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:06.839 So instead of having, you know, no one will have a locally designed cybermen. 260 00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:11.519 We'll all have the cybermen based on the great British cyber empire. 261 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:22.619 Russell T. Davis and Tom McRae wanted to explore the idea of conformity, which is why we get lines from the doctor, like, oh, you know, you lost anything for the latest upgrade. 262 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.720 And Rose says, well, it's not exactly me. 263 00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:27.779 Well, dear, you do have a new phone in this one that we haven't seen before. 264 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:34.200 And it's, it's purely based on plot expediency because our old Nokia could not have played video. 265 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.259 No, they would have superimposed it. 266 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:38.579 Everyone would have gone, I've got that. 267 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:39.480 It doesn't play video. 268 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.660 Can I talk about missing characters? 269 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.519 Oh, yes, please. 270 00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:57.119 So, um, 2 characters were drafted into the story who were pretty much sort of streamlined out of it. 271 00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:04.980 So the preachers originally had a 4th member called Ismay, who was an ex-green beret. 272 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:15.599 Now, the audition process for this story, because this was being double banked with Army of Ghosts and Doomsday, pretty much a lot of actors were seen for parts in each story. 273 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:25.740 So one of the actors to audition for the part of Esme, who got very far along in the auditions before the character was dropped, was Freema Adjumen. 274 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:46.920 And the reason the character was dropped was when Mrs. Moore's character was more fleshed out, being played by the late Helen Griffiths, who we lost last year, when she was more fleshed out, it was decided to make them a bunch of talented amateurs, and having an ex-green beret in there was seen as, oh, well, actually, no, hold on. 275 00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:49.740 She's got a bit too much experience for this role. 276 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:58.799 And pretty much her character was folded into Mrs. Moore, which is why, as well as being the tech expert, Mrs. Moore is handing out weapons and guns and stuff, you know? 277 00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:03.539 The other character who was in early drafts was Lumic's son. 278 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:10.799 So originally you had Jacob Lumick, who becomes John Lumick, Lumick Sr., who is dying. 279 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:18.119 And as well as him pushing for immortality, his son is pushing for it as well because he wants to save his dad as a parallel to Rose. 280 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.519 Yeah, that's more the novel version, isn't it? 281 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:21.420 at 600 pages. 282 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:22.500 Exactly. 283 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:32.220 And so instead they decided, they pretty much fold his character into Mr. Crane, who was then offered to Colin Spall, Graham Harper's old mate. 284 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:36.720 Finally, we would have said goodbye to another character in this story. 285 00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:38.160 Do we know about this? 286 00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:44.039 In the early drafts at the end, instead of the doctor saying we've only gotten off power to get back to our universe. 287 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:50.279 He's actually got power for one more trip and they take Jackie to be with Pete. 288 00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:55.859 Knowing that then, at the end of the year, Rose would be reunited with her family. 289 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:01.500 And the idea was Rose would kind of spend the next half of the season sort of thinking and being torn. 290 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:01.980 Hold on. 291 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:06.599 I can be with my family or I can be with the doctor instead of it being a snap decision at the end. 292 00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:19.440 The whole reason, though, that Russell decided to keep Jackie in the prime universe was suddenly realising if I don't have the Doctor and Rose so much in Love and Monsters, I can make it a showcase for Camille. 293 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.039 Yeah. 294 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.440 And she is the best thing about Love and Monsters. 295 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:23.819 She's wonderful. absolutely. 296 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:37.200 And, you know, she doesn't get a lot to do here, but then in that, oh, I know we're jumping around all over the place, but in that last scene, she's so sweet because she hears the TARDIS landing and it's just utter sheer joy. 297 00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:47.880 I actually find that scene so affecting. because we've lost Jackie in the parallel universe and we get to see that she's safe. 298 00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:52.559 So we absolutely had to see her at the end of this episode. was completely necessary. 299 00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:57.240 The TARDIS materialises in the flat for the 1st time. 300 00:23:57.299 --> 00:24:00.240 Breaks the bloody coffee table again. 301 00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:02.759 And she asks. 302 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.039 She's the one who asks, where's Mickey? 303 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.960 Because, you know, that's the sort of thing that the doctor and Rose are too kind of selfish to worry about. 304 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:15.539 She's the 1st to say, where's Mickey and the doctor gets to say he's gone home. 305 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:22.799 And it's so beautiful because of the relationship that has developed between Jackie and Mickey as well. 306 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:24.420 Which is lovely. 307 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:33.059 You know, that's one of the greatest things about aliens of London and World War 3 is the 2 of them go from antagonists to like close friends. 308 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.099 It's delightful. 309 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.200 That scene is just beautiful, I think. 310 00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:44.339 Can we talk about Mrs Moore? 311 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.619 She's a very rustly character, I think. 312 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:56.759 It's funny that you mention her because I see her as a cypher for many exact characters, poems, it's of that with, you know, John both in John Wyndham's novels. 313 00:24:56.819 --> 00:25:02.160 There's one in Midwich cuckoos and an elderly lady, but definitely Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. 314 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:02.940 Thank you, Nathan. 315 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:06.059 The elderly lady running the library. 316 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:10.559 She's, she's actually, Christy uses this character with Marple. 317 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:22.619 It's all about being the quiet, resolute radio for listener who will ultimately save the universe by being the symposium of all, not only find knowledge, but appropriate behaviour. 318 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.460 We will win our empire back through nice manners. 319 00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.779 That is very windy, isn't it? 320 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:32.579 Very survivors, remember? 321 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.259 Survivors is all about mucking in and being British and middle class. 322 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:42.779 I really like that she gets this family detail and that she gets a name. 323 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:49.980 Like we, um, the doctor and her spend a lot of time together in this episode, everyone's sort of split up into teams, aren't they? 324 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:55.859 And she gets to go with a doctor and talk about her life and how she got to where she was. 325 00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:02.940 And all of that sort of backstory is just Peak Russell, I think. 326 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.500 You know, in someone else's, in a lesser writer story, she would just have been a man. 327 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:09.420 We wouldn't have learnt anything about her. 328 00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:14.099 She picks the name Mrs. Moore from a passage to India, I think. 329 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.400 It's a character from Ian Forster's a passage to India. 330 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:24.000 And she gets to be there when we find out what the cybermen really are. 331 00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:28.559 And she wasn't meant to be, at least not in that sense. 332 00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:39.299 That scene where they knock out a Cyberman and disable the emotionally inhibitor was originally seen out on location. 333 00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.960 It was on their way to the factory and the whole gang was going to be there. 334 00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.900 But what happened was overshoots. 335 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.140 It was decided, okay, we'll need to shoot this in one of the internal locations. 336 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.799 Mrs. Moore originally died in the tunnels. 337 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:54.660 She didn't get up the ladder fast enough. 338 00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:04.380 But when they decided, oh, well, we still need this scene, they thought, well, if we're going to remount it, minimum amount of act as possible, we need to have someone to talk to. 339 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.359 Well, let's keep her alive for another scene. 340 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:09.299 Now, this is the scene my mother had problems with. 341 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:15.180 So at that point, I was acquiring the episodes before they had on the ABC. 342 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:19.740 And pretty much watching them every week with my parents. 343 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:32.700 And, um, dad was quite drunk, so he passed out before we watched the episode and mum and I sort of waited 2 hours for him to for him to wake up. 344 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:33.839 Yeah, it was a Saturday. 345 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.039 And finally, Mum just said, oh, let's just watch it. 346 00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:47.160 And so we watched it and we get to that scene, and of course, Mrs. Moore is horribly murdered by the one Cyberman who has silences on his legs. 347 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:50.819 Is that stamping diegetic? 348 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.500 You know, the doctor says, oh no, you didn't have to kill her. 349 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.660 And my mum started shouting at the screen. 350 00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.720 You've just been talking about killing all of them, she shouted. 351 00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:04.380 I said, yes, but they're, and she said, no, no, that one's getting married. 352 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:05.759 They still know who they are. 353 00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:07.319 I'm like, that's a very interesting point. 354 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:13.680 But I think she knows who she is because they've broken the inhibitor. 355 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:15.119 But they're definitely in there. 356 00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:18.059 I mean, Jackie knows that she was Jackie. 357 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:19.019 Interesting, yeah. 358 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:19.440 Yeah. 359 00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:25.680 But I think that this is where we properly see what the cybermen are, where it's properly explained. 360 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.240 And it's never very clear. 361 00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:28.440 I think in the 10th planet. 362 00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:33.059 We assume that they're kind of people, you know, ensues. 363 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:39.660 But here it's clear that it's the brain and the nervous system that exists and everything else gets stripped away. 364 00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:44.579 And because what's happened to them is so horrifying. 365 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:47.279 They have to have an emotional inhibitor. 366 00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:59.640 That's why side men have no feelings, not because they're robots, but because they've been so violated that they would go mad if they didn't have the emotional inhibitor, and the doctor's solution is to switch it off. 367 00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.099 And again, it's so rustly. 368 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:14.039 It's a little bit like in Boomtown where that young journalist is pregnant and she talks to Margaret while Margaret's on the toilet, you know, having Sally. 369 00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:19.380 Like giving her a full name, Sally Phelan, she's got a name, Phelan. 370 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.900 She's not feeling when the emotional inhibitor is on. 371 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:23.400 Sorry. 372 00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:24.720 I'll cut that. 373 00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:26.700 No, please, no. 374 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:34.380 You deserve for everyone to hear that. and that she's going to get married. 375 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:38.220 You know, it's so heartbreaking. 376 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:39.539 It's so terribly sad. 377 00:29:39.539 --> 00:29:43.440 And the doctor does like put her out of her misery. 378 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:44.579 He does kill her. 379 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:54.839 And in a way, with switching off the emotional inhibitor, you know, it's it's horrible because it gives them back their feelings, but it's also dying as a human. 380 00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:55.740 Yeah. 381 00:29:55.799 --> 00:30:00.119 You know, this terrible scene of one staring into a mirror. 382 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:04.920 You know, he's just looking at himself and what's been done to him. 383 00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:18.119 And in terms of attention to detail, Nicholas Briggs and Graham Harper said they had a lot of trouble with that scene because Nicholas Briggs was providing the voices live and then dubbing them in afterwards. 384 00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:26.460 So Briggs had to give a performance of someone in torment that was quiet enough that David Tennant could still be heard. 385 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:27.299 Right. 386 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.480 And, you know, David Tennant doesn't overperform that line. 387 00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:32.700 Like, it's it's very, it's his catchphrase. 388 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:33.180 I'm sorry. 389 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:34.559 It's very effective. 390 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:36.660 I don't understand why some of them explode. 391 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.460 Well that just looks cool. 392 00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:39.240 Yeah. 393 00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.519 So we've all had our moments. 394 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:47.400 I do love that Russell forces, you can see his life and how he's grown. 395 00:30:47.460 --> 00:30:54.119 And I'm just thinking back to queer as folk and what we've read as writers tell, but really you just need to watch queer as folk to see Russell's life. 396 00:30:54.180 --> 00:31:02.640 He's very much the character not, I don't think, Billy, but Rose, I should say, but of Camille's character. 397 00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:14.519 He's very much, you are only the person you are because of the terrible things that have happened to you, and they are actually more just as worthwhile and possibly a bit more useful than all the good stuff. 398 00:31:14.579 --> 00:31:19.500 You need both, but you're really only worthwhile because of the awful thing. 399 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.400 So that's why that key moment, yes, we're jumping ahead. 400 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:49.500 But this story works because we see Jack at the end of this story and we realise that the loss of a mother, for both Mickey and Rose, could have completely defeated their lives and completely and turned them into monsters, actually, cyber persons, unless they own that and work through it and live through it and acknowledge it. 401 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:59.700 And so Mickey only really becomes bigger than both Mickey and Ricky when he takes care of his grandmother and realises that I have a 2nd chance. 402 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:02.160 And I think Rose will discover that as well. 403 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.559 Yeah, I mean, it's his home, isn't it? 404 00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:12.539 The doctor says he's gone home and he's gone home to be with his grandmother to look after her because he's got the chance now to keep her. 405 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:20.759 And especially considering the implication is that her death was partially a fault of his inaction. 406 00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:21.480 Yeah. 407 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:27.900 And also, it's heavily implied that he has never told anyone that because Rose doesn't comment. 408 00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.599 You know, she fell down the stairs. 409 00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:34.920 She doesn't comment. like the carpet on the stairs had been ripped for for years or anything like that. 410 00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:36.839 Mickey had been planning to fix it. 411 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:38.339 Yeah, I got around to it. 412 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:42.059 I don't think Mickey had ever told Rose that is the implication I get from there. 413 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:49.980 And also when he's saying goodbye to Rose at the end, when he becomes emotional is when he's talking about how his gran is still in this universe. 414 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:50.880 Yeah, yes. 415 00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:54.359 Which is why I'm buggering off to a nurse that's honeymoon in Paris. 416 00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.619 Well, he'll pick her up on the way in the van. 417 00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:01.859 Oh my God, she could be a preacher. 418 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.859 She could be blind out from Deadpool. 419 00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:08.400 In the back with all the weapons. 420 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:13.740 Now, Graham, we need you to figure out how to make electromagnetic bombs because we just lost someone in the organisation. 421 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.000 It is really great, isn't it? 422 00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:22.799 It so pays off the beginning of the story where they're horrible to Mickey. 423 00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:24.299 He's a 3rd wheel. 424 00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:26.579 He's still the tin dog despite his efforts. 425 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:30.240 And he becomes a hero. 426 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:47.579 And the way this show shows that is by making him become the doctor, and he actually says to Rose, something like, just hold on, Rose, I'm coming to get you, which is what the doctor had said at the end of episode 12 last year. 427 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:59.099 And so he gets to heroically save Rose, um, by, you know, steering the Zeppelin and rescuing them from the exploding building. 428 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.019 And he becomes a doctor. 429 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.400 He has a life now where he goes across the world and fights Cyberman. 430 00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:05.940 Yeah. 431 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:15.059 Now, of course, the moment in that scene, which catches my ear, is when Mickey says that he learned to fly a Zeppelin on PlayStation. 432 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.559 Now, I've tried to do a little bit of research. 433 00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:24.480 Mickey at this point is from the space year of 2007. 434 00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:30.960 So it's possible that he could have a PlayStation one, two, or three. 435 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:40.800 And the novel winner takes all tells us that he has Grand Theft Auto, Grand Turismo, and one other game. 436 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.420 Now, Gran Turismo is exclusive to PlayStation, so that ties in with this. 437 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:53.460 Now, the Grand Theft Auto series has featured Zeppelin since Grand Theft Auto 3, which came out before this episode is set. 438 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.019 We live for this movie. 439 00:34:55.500 --> 00:35:00.900 However, they were not flyable by the character until Grand Theft Auto 5 in 2013. 440 00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:05.639 So I think this is just another example of how the Doctor Who universe is slightly ahead of us, right? 441 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:10.440 In terms of piloting Zeppelins in video game technology. 442 00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:15.239 Brilliant Now, um, You don't hear that on new to who, do you? 443 00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:16.019 No, you don't. 444 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:22.920 And, you know, quite frankly, I think that's just as important as any discussion about Rita Ann Smith, his grandmother. 445 00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:37.739 Interestingly, Roger Lloyd Pack had very few scenes with the rest of the cast. 446 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.300 He's actually got no scenes in person with the regulars. 447 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:43.079 Right. 448 00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:57.840 You see, this is where his character falls apart a little bit for me in that when Mr. Crane attacks him, you know, makes his wheelchair explode and presumably, you know, sneaks around the back and disconnects his thermal lobes. 449 00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:00.599 What a friend's fool. 450 00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:04.920 But, you know, then he's like, no, no, no, I don't want to upgrade. 451 00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:07.800 I don't want to, and I just kind of feel, mm. 452 00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:15.780 The character up until this point, he hasn't almost religious fervour for the idea of upgrading. 453 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:19.619 It isn't just about preserving his physical form. 454 00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:24.659 I feel it would have been far more chilling if he had seen it as ascendency. 455 00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:29.639 You know, if he had said to Mr. Crane before Mr. Crane dies, thank you. 456 00:36:29.699 --> 00:36:31.860 Now I can ascend, kill him. 457 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.239 It would have just been the last removal of his humanity. 458 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:52.559 We haven't mentioned William Blake for this podcast, which is unusual for this episode. you know, we usually do. in that we also need to look at Britain's self-eulogizing and nods to transcendence or it's aspirant nature. 459 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.260 And Blake is pretty much its voice for that. 460 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.500 But you see it through a lot of other fiction as well. 461 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:06.119 There's a whole lot, you know, we don't need to just look at the US for evangelical senses of our future. 462 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.760 Yeah, manifest destiny. 463 00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:09.300 Exactly. 464 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.079 Her. 465 00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.079 Please welcome to the stage. 466 00:37:13.139 --> 00:37:14.460 Manifest destiny. 467 00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:27.539 I think Russell was terrified as a child watching Tomb of the Cyberman and seeing the brain inside the transparent cybercontrol ahead. 468 00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:29.880 And so he replicates it here. 469 00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.039 Never been able to use a pressure cooker since. 470 00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:41.579 On the commentary, Paul Casey. who was the lead cyberman and also inside the cybercontroller suit. 471 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.420 The lights that were in his eyes and brain. 472 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.119 He said, I couldn't see a thing. 473 00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:54.059 I could see the white of David Tennant's collar and that's what I used as my eyeline. 474 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:58.199 But yeah, you can't see a thing with Thor lights in front of your eyes. 475 00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:59.099 Graham. 476 00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.500 Gorgeous. 477 00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:05.039 Oh, yes, he looks absolutely wonderful on the cyber throne of reasonable comfort. 478 00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:07.980 It's ducted. 479 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:10.139 It is ducted. 480 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.380 And just like being able to sit on every good throw. 481 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.820 He couldn't keep his pants done up. 482 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.320 The cyberpants couldn't be done up at the front while he was sitting on the throat. 483 00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.780 That's what I said anyway. 484 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.139 You try relaxing into a comfy chair and keep your buttons all up. 485 00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:32.579 I do, yeah, I do wonder what the nodules are about, but, you know, you've got to ask. 486 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:46.320 But as originally scripted, the Dr. Rose and Pete were going to take a lift up to the roof to be rescued by the Zeppelin and the cybercontroller was meant to burst through the lift bottom so close. 487 00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:47.760 You could feel his fire. 488 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:53.699 They sort of cost it, okay, so we'll need to build a lift. 489 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.199 We need to build a collapsible floor. 490 00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:56.699 The actors can also stand on. 491 00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:02.039 Or someone pointed out, you could do it on a ladder against black drapes. 492 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.119 So it's like, oh, we'll do it on a ladder against black drapes then. 493 00:39:06.179 --> 00:39:09.059 It's another nice callback to the invasion, isn't it? 494 00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:19.920 As is the fact that the cyberconversion facility, interior was meant to be a power station, but it was filmed during a very cold winter. 495 00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:22.500 So there was no downtime in the power station. 496 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:26.820 Pretty much the power station usually shut down and went to automatic for 6 hours overnight. 497 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.280 But they couldn't do that. 498 00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:38.639 So it was filmed in a brewery, just like the invasion, which was directed by Douglas Canfield, which is a lovely bit of... 499 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:40.500 It looks amazing, doesn't it? 500 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:44.880 So those big tanks all become like cyber conversion units. 501 00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:52.380 And that really nightmarish, and it's sort of very PG because there's no blood or no human beings in shot. 502 00:39:52.440 --> 00:40:01.440 But that sort of thing that comes down from the ceiling, like a sort of shower rose with teeth that's covered in sort of, you know, chainsaws and things that chops you up. 503 00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:02.519 I think it's really cool. 504 00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:06.300 I do think that the charm bracelet of death, isn't it? 505 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.480 Really, or really just sitting in any dentist chair. 506 00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:15.539 I think you, when you do this Ironman, you have to be about where they come from. 507 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:24.239 And the problem in the 80s, I think, is that we kind of forget that the cybermen were people who are converted into something. 508 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.300 And here it very much. 509 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:43.440 It's another great reinvention of a classic era, idea, and even better, I think, than Dalek, because the Dalek had such a kind of a strong mythic resonance already in the classic series. 510 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:50.519 Whereas the side men, I think, needed more rescuing because they're a bit more crap. sort of generally speaking. 511 00:40:50.579 --> 00:41:01.320 And I think he does a great job reimagining them, like saying what they are, giving them some kind of thematic resonance, giving them a new origin story. 512 00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.260 All of that, I think, is wonderful. 513 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:06.780 I think this is super underrated. 514 00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:17.760 It certainly made us think about their wishes when it's always at its best made us think about things that are, you know, far beyond what might appear on the screen at the 1st viewing. 515 00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:20.699 But that's what good drama is. 516 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.099 It doesn't have to yell at you to make its point. 517 00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:24.719 It should just nicely suggest. 518 00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:28.500 It is a recapitulation of the whole history of the show too. 519 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.940 I mean, the 1st doctor classically faces off against the Daleks. 520 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:39.599 The 2nd doctor faces off against Cyberman and the 3rd doctor faces off against the master. 521 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:43.260 Jolly good brand, of course. 522 00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.579 And he introduces each of them in turn, you know, in the respective season. 523 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:48.659 Yeah, yeah. 524 00:41:48.719 --> 00:42:05.699 And I think he is so clever to do it in a parallel world because Dalek continuity was convoluted, but, you know, there is a way to rectify sort of post-Davros, pre-Davros, survival, timelines. 525 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:12.000 But the Cybermen timeline, God, it took David Banks 200 pages to try and make sense of it in the classic series. 526 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.099 And then just as he finishes, they go and make another one. 527 00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:21.179 And Tom McRae and Graham Harper both read David Banks Cyberman book. 528 00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:22.559 I've got it. 529 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:24.239 I really liked it when it came out. 530 00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.699 It's such fanness. 531 00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.380 I cleaned that up. 532 00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:37.679 But, you know, it quite deftly acknowledges the continuity problems, comes up with a continuity and admits where it can't rectify things. 533 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:47.760 I think Russell is so wise to create Cyberman that are true to the original idea, but also saying, I respect this past continuity. 534 00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:52.019 Here is a reason I will not be tied to it at this stage. 535 00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.760 He leaves it intact too. 536 00:42:53.820 --> 00:43:03.539 Yes, he says there are cybermen in our universe, but in this universe, they arise on earth rather than on silly, you know, wandering, identical twin earth. 537 00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.860 Malaysia. 538 00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:13.380 And Russell keeps a consistent continuity for the cybermen from then on throughout his era. 539 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.179 All of the sidemen stories make sense. 540 00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:24.360 And it's not until, I think, closing time where suddenly, you know, there are assignment entombed in a thing 1000s of years earlier and it's kind of like, well, where did they come from? 541 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:30.179 And the idea is that Stephen Moffatt actually doesn't care and it doesn't really matter all that much. you know. 542 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:43.320 But Russell is, I think, writing this with an eye to a smart, nerdy science fiction fan like he himself was during the 70s and he gives it a proper continuity as well. 543 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:48.119 We even get a call back to Dalek, where we saw the cyberhead in Van Staten's music. 544 00:43:48.179 --> 00:43:50.159 Yeah, Noel Clark insisted on. 545 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.539 Okay, so let's do pics of the week. 546 00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:14.519 My pick of the week is, uh, because I was recently extolling the virtues of this to someone on Twitter, big finishes Cyberman. 547 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:16.559 Oh, miniseries. 548 00:44:16.619 --> 00:44:18.960 So it's um, 8 audio plays. 549 00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:26.219 And um, whereas Big Finisher's Dalek Empire subseries is sort of this massive space epic. 550 00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:30.239 This really examines what are the sidemen. 551 00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:32.940 It's far more of a sort of techno political thriller. 552 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:33.780 Oh okay. 553 00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:40.380 And yeah, you can get the whole series of 8 adventures for $20 Australian. 554 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:45.119 Yeah, but yeah, so Big Finishes Cyberman series. is my pick of the week. 555 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:47.579 I jolly love it too. 556 00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:51.360 Well, I was going to go with Philip Pullman, but we've all discussed that before. 557 00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:54.599 And I'm thinking, why did I love this and the feel of it? 558 00:44:54.659 --> 00:45:04.380 and we talked about Carol Reed and wartime, Britain and parallel universes, but my favourite thing really that keeps coming back into my mind is Connie Willis. 559 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:05.639 Have you read any of hers? 560 00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:07.559 She's so good. 561 00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:16.260 And she loves she's an American author, but who loves Edwardian humour and PG Woodhouse and Jerome K. Jerome. 562 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:22.619 So 3 men in a boat is her 1st pastiche where she does a parallel universe time travelling thing. 563 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.820 Cambridge in the late 21st century has a time travelling device. 564 00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:27.539 Right? 565 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.360 When we're not in any fascist state. 566 00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:32.699 None of that, none of the trumpetisms have ever happened. 567 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:40.559 Everything's gone on in quite a lovely way, and yes, there's time travel, but it's entirely Douglas Adams, and it's based at Cambridge University. 568 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:42.000 So academics run it. 569 00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:45.659 And so her 1st novel is called to say nothing of the dog. 570 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.900 So it's a take on that, and it's just sublime and delightful. 571 00:45:48.960 --> 00:46:07.800 Then she jumps to the Doomsday book, which is, which has a character slightly younger than Rose, and it's absolutely heartbreaking because a young girl, finally a student, transports to the late Middle Ages, and of course, or the period of the Black Death, and her device fails. 572 00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:09.119 They can't scoop her out. 573 00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:10.739 So that's an extraordinary book. 574 00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:12.840 But the 3rd... 575 00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:34.380 Oh, there's a few other ones, but the blackout series, it's a diptych, a double novel set, set in the 2nd World War, same universe, some, sorry, the same business with Cambridge time travellers, and again, a lovely young girl gets trapped during the 2nd World War, and it's just so good and has the same feel of this with the parallelisms and lots of Russell feeling writing. 576 00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:44.760 So I really, just look up Connie Willis, but you, I guarantee if you love this era of Doctor Who and British SF, you will really love Connie Willis's take on time travel. 577 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:45.599 Brilliant. 578 00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:48.659 I want to bring the tone down a bit. 579 00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:54.360 I've been watching a show on Netflix starring Gillian Anderson and Husky Young actors in chairs. 580 00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:55.440 Yes, what's it called? 581 00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.179 It's called sex education. 582 00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:06.840 And Gillian Anderson, who turns out, does a mean English accent because she, I think she grew up in Great Britain. 583 00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:21.659 She plays a sex therapist who has a son and the son is the main character and the son goes to school and starts a kind of sex therapy clinic for his classmates for money. 584 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.579 It's really funny. 585 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:27.239 It's really it's really, really funny and clever. 586 00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.139 What's that on? 587 00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:29.039 It's on Netflix. 588 00:47:29.099 --> 00:47:30.719 It's a Netflix original. 589 00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:33.360 And Julian Anderson is just spectacular in it. 590 00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:34.199 She's so great. 591 00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:35.159 She's so good. 592 00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:39.300 So it's well worth watching, really, really funny stuff. 593 00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:43.199 And do you know what Gillian Anderson's next big role is? 594 00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:44.699 Yes. 595 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:51.420 She's going to be Margaret Thatcher in the Crown. this podcast, very own Olivia Coleman. 596 00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:52.980 Oh, yes. 597 00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:55.920 She's wonderful. 598 00:47:55.980 --> 00:47:57.840 I mean, she is just so funny in this. 599 00:47:57.900 --> 00:47:59.219 The show is really, really great. 600 00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:27.659 Well, dear listener, it's time to return to the real world, or at least a rough approximation of it. 601 00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:32.159 We'll be back next week, glued to the set for the idiot's lantern. 602 00:48:32.219 --> 00:48:40.079 In the meantime, you can find us at flightsthroughentirety.com, flights through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FT podcast on Twitter. 603 00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:46.260 You can also find us at our series 11 flashcast, Jodi Interterra, which is at Jodi Interterra.com. 604 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:58.559 Jodie Interterter on Apple Podcasts and at Jodie Interterter on Twitter and at our James Bond Commentary Podcast Bondfinger, which is at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at Bondfingercast on Twitter. 605 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:06.780 Until next time, may you remember to put your phone down every now and again, or it will kill you and everyone you care about. 606 00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:09.539 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 607 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.099 I'm off on my pedalow home. 608 00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:12.539 Good night. then. 609 00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:20.039 That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottleley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. 610 00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:24.539 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane Orberg. 611 00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:30.480 This episode, delicious fascism, was recorded on the 2nd of February 2019 and released on the 21st of April. 612 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:40.440 As you all know, the worst thing about Flight Through Entirety is that it doesn't make money for Swedish tech bros. 613 00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:43.739 And so we've now made it available on Spotify. 614 00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.800 If you must go to our website and follow the link to subscribe. 615 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:58.500 He fell so in love with remaking Star Trek that it stopped being, it stopped being a comedy at all and is just basically, yeah. 616 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:06.780 I'm still convinced that he wanted to make a comedic drama rather than a comedy, and that's why the 1st 2 episodes have such sort of comedy in them. 617 00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:08.519 Yeah, they're good. 618 00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:11.820 So it's the age of steel, by the way. and it's the 2nd of February. 619 00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:12.480 Right. 620 00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:15.960 What was I going to say about Galaxy Quest? 621 00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:19.199 Yes, the American DVD and Blu-ray, which I have. 622 00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:22.980 I haven't watched it, but one of the audio tracks is Thermian. 623 00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:24.360 Oh, really? 624 00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.739 It's entirely done. 625 00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:28.860 The alien language. 626 00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:29.940 I know. 627 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.360 I just didn't realise it was even better than I'd always known it to me. 628 00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:37.739 Well, that's like you can have the Klingon subtitles option for the entirety of discovery. 629 00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.940 About halfway through episode four. 630 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.739 It's just like, are you really reading this? 631 00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:45.420 That's it. 632 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:48.119 My sister got bitten by a moose one. 633 00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:54.119 Oh, like you still need a galaxy quest too. 634 00:50:54.179 --> 00:50:57.420 Well, unfortunately, it will never happen. 635 00:50:57.480 --> 00:50:59.579 Well, Daryl Mitchell is now paraplegic. 636 00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:00.780 The young black man. 637 00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:02.940 Oh, he was in a car accident. 638 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:05.940 Actually, I think he may have passed on by now. 639 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:06.539 Oh, no. 640 00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:07.079 Oh, wow. 641 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:08.159 And of course, Alan Rickman. 642 00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:08.760 Yeah. 643 00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:09.780 Yeah. 644 00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:10.920 Which is sad. 645 00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:12.840 And it made in series, maybe? 646 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.559 There are comic books. 647 00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:17.400 We got Orville, so. 648 00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.980 There are comic books. did see one. are they any good? 649 00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:20.760 I don't know. 650 00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:26.400 I mean, I don't know if they're from the fictional perspective of episodes of the original? 651 00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:28.019 I've looked at one the other day, but I didn't. 652 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:32.400 I mean, I didn't read it, but no, it looks entirely as if it's the, you know, like the trek ones. 653 00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:34.559 It's alt universe trek. 654 00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:37.559 No, Orville, I think, is one of the best things on TV right now. 655 00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:39.960 It's just this whole season has just been extraordinary. 656 00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:56.280 I think I remember like a Star Trek, the Next Generation fanfic or something where the actors and the characters swapped places like the Mirror Universe and like Jonathan Frakes is on the Enterprise worrying about what Will Riker is doing with his wife and stuff. 657 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.059 It's like, oh dear. 658 00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:02.400 Okay. 659 00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:06.119 All right, let me see if I can do this. 660 00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:12.599 Marina saying Louise Jamison didn't have to wear contact. 661 00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:18.659 Oh God, I love Marina. 662 00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:23.679 Hello, dear listener and welcome back to...