WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:45:00

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast, broadcast live from Battersea Power

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Station.

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And it smells like bacon in here for some reason.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brandon.

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Aren't we warm and delicious?

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And for this one, I would therefore be a, oh, Henry Hoover tubing

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Mr. Snuffleupagus oesophagus comfy armchair with interducting.

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I was sitting comfortably.

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Oh, so we've been cowering in a cupboard all week while the

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sidemen have been rampaging through this lovely house, but the

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champagne's run out now, so it must be time to emerge blinking

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into the sunlight to find out what Great Britain is like during

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the age of steel.

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So, what do we think of the Cliffhanger Resolution?

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It's very Disney, so it actually does kind of work when this

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Disney parallel universe thing, that it's a lovely chunky piece of

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jewellery that, you know, ends up being, I just felt like it was

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suddenly dunked into frozen.

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It's a little bit easy, but it is set up for people complain that

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Russell doesn't set things up properly and that they just get

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pulled out of thin air.

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What else are they going to bloody do?

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Yeah, well that's right.

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Pull out an eye patch.

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Do you want to meld a cyborg?

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Yeah, look, it's still the doctor killing them all with a big

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gun.

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You know, it's seeds of death again. a huge mood ring, isn't it?

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But that being said, it is the thing of the doctor gives them a

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chance to take them away to the factory where, you know, presumably

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he can then get away and this episode would only be about 10

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minutes long. without overtly being, I'm going to give you a

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chance here.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to get out of the cliffhanger and

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in a way, it's the same solution as the beginning of World War 3.

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But, you know, this time, this time it's more refined just because

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it's better shot and better directed.

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It is the same. you're absolutely right It is going down into the

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bales.

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In fact, it's actually the MOD where that room is.

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Do you know there is actually a room like that, but it's in the

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MOD, which we know from listening to the news quiz.

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And we know that Sherry Blair changed, you know, when Theresa May

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said, what do you think about all the furniture to the woman who's

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on the news?

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And she said, well, it's all right, I suppose. you know, she said

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bitch, John Lewis, she said, Cherry Blair made us get rid of all

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the nice 60s, mid-century modern, and go to John Lewis and get all

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this comfy furniture, which is exactly an illusion to Roger Lloyd

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Pax's comfy aunt.

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I think that this episode is vastly different from the previous

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one, and they've learned the lesson, that the 2 episodes of a

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single story have to be quite different.

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And this one doesn't revisit any of the places where we've been

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before, we never go back to the house.

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We do see Jackie sort of lurking in the like lurking in a cupboard

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just next to the one we were in.

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I was hoping Rose would become a cyber mat.

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Really disappointed.

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Little rose.

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That would be great.

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Just crawling around on Jackie's shoulder, cyber Jackie.

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The cybernization of Jackie is quite harrowing and, 1st of all

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forgot to mention last week, Camille gets a wonderful scream when

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she sees a cyberman, you know, recalling when she 1st sees an

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auton and Camille just has the most wonderful terrified scream.

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It's theatrical, it's loud.

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It is pleasing to the ear, like it's musically pleasing.

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It's the un Mariah Carey.

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All the time.

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Yes.

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I just think having the mother as a damsel in distress is great.

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You know, companions are getting more and more competent and less

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and less screamy because we find that irritating.

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And so instead you've got the mother who can be threatened by

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monsters and scream.

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And what is so horrible is that Pete is going to run back in to

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save her and the doctor says anyone in that house is dead.

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And she's wrong. not.

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He's wrong.

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Exactly.

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And in fact, a whole heap of survivors walk out of the house and

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head off to Battersea Power Station later.

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He's completely wrong.

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He's just leaving them, those rich guys.

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Yeah, you have to wonder...

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It's not actually about saving his own skin.

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It's about saving Pete.

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And that's that's very interesting.

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You know, he's been saying to Rose, no, no, no, you can't go near

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him. you't have anything to do with him.

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And yet he saves Pete.

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I think that's the whole pertly thing of once your, it actually

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goes back to Billy, doesn't it?

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I mean, Trout and did it all the time.

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Well, no, we mustn't get involved.

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Oh, we're involved now.

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Yes.

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Well, we talked last week about how a parallel universe is a honey

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pot.

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Like it's a trap.

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And it's a trap for the doctor as well because now there are

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monsters and he's desperate to investigate and that's what gets

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him involved.

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It's what gets him to go to the party.

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He's not going to the party to see Pete.

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He's going to the party because he's fascinated by what's going

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on.

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It is very AML, isn't it?

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Much like this recording.

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And so often here we've all removed everything, save our red t

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shirts and honey jones.

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So Jake and Ricky, they're totally gay, right?

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Or do they only do it on the cutting room floor?

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Yeah.

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Look, I think that Andrew Hayden Smith totally plays it that way.

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Noel does and he doesn't in a way.

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It's kind of codified as a Butch and Femme dynamic, really.

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Yeah.

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We all know who's the ostensible top.

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It's the actual bottom in the chair.

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It's always the femme, isn't it?

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No, I think they do really top, yes.

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They do play it that way.

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Jumping straight to the end.

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I'm glad they cut the line that confirms them.

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Me too.

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Why are you gleb?

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Just because it's too much of a gag about your boyfriend who's

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just died and I don't envy Andrew Hayden Smith, because how do you

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deliver that line?

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You know, if you deliver it really sadly, and it's the last or 2nd

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last season of the episode, then it's a downbeat ending.

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If you deliver it too lightly as kind of happens, you are

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demeaning the relationship.

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And for those of you who aren't aware, pretty much, there's a

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deleted scene where after Mickey says, I'm not replacing Ricky

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Jake responds, no, you're not, I'll never have another boyfriend

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like him.

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Right.

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It's too glib, and that Phil Collinson and Julie Gardiner, actually

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said, no, that's the reason we're cutting it, because it hasn't

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this is the 1st time it's made explicit. we're making it explicit

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as a joke.

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Is that actually the reason?

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Look, I'm impressed if that is the case?

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I am going back to my Peter Davison defence, Janet Fielding would

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probably back me up on this one, is that you remember why Peter

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left Twitter because he made a remark that the doctor needs to be

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we need more role models for little straight boys because there's

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actually not enough sensitive straight characters out there.

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And, you know, hello, Gillette had.

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He could actually be saying something that has pertinence here.

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And although I probably, you know, I get where Peter's coming

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from.

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And I'm surprised to find myself agreeing on this case.

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I like that this is still for children 12 and under when I fell in

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love with Doctor Who.

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It wasn't as an adult.

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It was at that very sensitive age.

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And I like that we, as little boys of whatever, you know, sexuality

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you're going to end up with can simply appreciate it on whatever

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level you choose to.

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Yeah.

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I certainly it's the intelligence and emotional intelligence to

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take this as we will.

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I certainly think that the deletion of that line, and I wasn't

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aware of that or I had forgotten it.

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The deletion of that line doesn't prevent us from reading it that

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way if we want to.

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As gay people, we used to reading ourselves into texts all the

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time, and it is kind of irresistible, and we get to imagine the

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story where, you know, your boyfriend is replaced by someone.

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I think I've seen that film. video.

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And certainly, when Mickey says at the very end in the van, it

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must be really hard for you me having the same face as him.

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Like, I think there's there's very good grounds for just assuming

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that that's what he's talking about.

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Yeah, like your friend is dead.

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Yeah, but I can be your friend is dead.

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It can be your boyfriend, is dead.

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Yeah, I think you have, you know, like I was fairly certain that

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that's what they were going for.

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I didn't know that there was a version where they make it

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explicit.

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Yes.

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Is it filmed or...

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It's filmed.

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It's on the it's on the DVD in the the blurry.

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Okay.

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It's there.

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It was cut out during editing.

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Right.

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So it was filmed.

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And also, you know, Knowles, rather Mickey's reaction to that.

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It's not gay panic, but it's okay, definitely not replacing it.

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Which, you know, is funny until you think, and your boyfriend's

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dead.

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Yeah, no, it's too harsh.

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It's too quick.

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Certainly he plays it that way too, doesn't he?

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Yeah, when he finds out that Ricky's dead, spoiler alert.

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Yeah, Andrew Hayden Smith in that moment.

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And what I love, what I love about Graham Harper's direction is he

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allows the guest actors.

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When it's their moment, it is their moment.

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They are front and centre at the shot, they are facing the camera

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you are seeing the emotion.

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Like when he tells Mickey to shut up and turn away, Mickey's the

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one talking, but Jake is the one in focus.

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We've all learnt from Mark Strickson, haven't we?

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That's it.

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Keep your face on screen, love.

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One of the things this series does, and one of the things that I

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miss about Doctor Who now is that it romanticises London, it

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enchants London.

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Really does, doesn't it?

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Yeah, so it puts things in secret places in London.

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So you've got unit in the Tower of London, when we think about

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number 10.

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It's a place where the Slovene, where the London Eye was used as a

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broadcaster for the autons, the Thames barrier, becomes a thing in

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the Runaway Bride.

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And here we've got Battersea Power Station.

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And maybe our Australian listeners aren't familiar with it.

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It does appear briefly on camera in Dalek Invasion of Earth.

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And it's a hugely striking visible building.

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And in this version of London, the entire population is marching

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towards Battersea Power Station to get sawn up and turned into

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cybermen.

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And I just think it's wonderful.

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I just used to, you know, every time I go to London and see the

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building, that's what I think of.

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Imagine living in London as a kid and seeing it on the train as

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you go past all the time.

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I used to see it every morning because I lived in North London, but

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I worked in North Kent.

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So I had to tube down to Victoria and catch the train from there.

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And yeah, yeah, it is such a striking building.

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And the romanticisation of London is interesting because years ago

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I was having a chat with a friend of mine who is a West End set

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designer and so lives in London.

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And he was complaining about usage of Cardiff and Newport and

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Swansea as streets in London.

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And Graham Harper, of the Coventry for this, points out that last

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scene on the embankment.

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If you are facing the TARDIS, you're in Cardiff, if you are facing

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00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:29.940
the river, you're in London.

251
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.659
He's like, I had to shoot the scene in both locations to do the

252
00:12:33.659 --> 00:12:34.320
cuts between.

253
00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:37.559
But this friend of mine was saying, oh, you know, I, that street

254
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.519
Donna walks down in, in turn left, I know that's not in London.

255
00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.639
And I said to him, Doctor Who is an international program.

256
00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:46.559
I don't know that's not London.

257
00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.580
The story tells me it's London, so I believe it's London.

258
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.120
And I said to him, it's the Avengers thing of a fantasy Britain.

259
00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:54.659
Yes.

260
00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:57.840
You know, Emma Peel's flat is nowhere in London.

261
00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:01.799
The exterior is a set. but it's London Because I've stood there

262
00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:03.659
called out for her.

263
00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:06.960
The one with the karyatids in the yeah, in the black and white

264
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:07.440
season.

265
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:09.000
It's a gorgeous building too.

266
00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:12.240
And I've done that to Pat McNee as well.

267
00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:15.480
Well, yeah, but the, you know, the 5 Westminster Muse thing too.

268
00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:17.340
And I wasn't escorted from the premises.

269
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.600
It is a TV version of London.

270
00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:24.539
You know, and that's what Doctor Who should do with locations.

271
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.639
It is a TV version of that location.

272
00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:30.299
And of course, we have an extra level of fictionalisation being in

273
00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:34.259
this alternative universe with Zeppelins flying about.

274
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:36.600
Actually, yeah, sorry, I'm back on the AirPod update.

275
00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:38.460
What are the Zeppelin pilots do?

276
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.500
How do they stop playing?

277
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.899
Because when we see them flying through the sky, they're all sort

278
00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:44.820
of higgledy-peldy, there's no skyways.

279
00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:46.259
I'm really cross.

280
00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.620
I really like the Zeppelins.

281
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:50.639
I think they look great.

282
00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:56.159
And so we've got that image of Battersea Power Station with Lumic

283
00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:00.179
Zeppelin kind of moored to the roof and it's a huge important

284
00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:01.860
image for the entire episode.

285
00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.879
And I just think it's superb.

286
00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.460
It's so imaginative and so wonderful.

287
00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.080
And so kind of terrifying.

288
00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:14.100
I mean, because we're in a parallel universe, you know, the last

289
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:16.919
parallel universe we're in, we destroyed by fire.

290
00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:21.299
This one we're allowed to just hoover up the population of London

291
00:14:21.299 --> 00:14:23.279
and turn them all into cyberman.

292
00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:25.500
And I think it's just terrific.

293
00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:26.220
It's so great.

294
00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:32.879
It does feel with British SF really, actually going back to HG

295
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:33.480
Wells.

296
00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:36.419
It's always been precient of its own downfall.

297
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.559
It's almost as if it wanted this that we're going through right

298
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:45.600
now, the B word, that would, Yeah, that there's this sense of self

299
00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:47.639
determination of dystopia.

300
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:49.799
British SF has always done this really well.

301
00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:52.860
You know, the nation that gave us all is Huxley and George

302
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:53.460
Orwell.

303
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.100
Yeah, and Wyndham as well, who destroys London too.

304
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.500
A couple of times, actually.

305
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:03.360
And the very, very 1st time the show goes back to London.

306
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:05.039
It's a destroyed London.

307
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:05.879
It is too.

308
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.679
With no elephants.

309
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.980
In terms of the massive cyber conversion.

310
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.820
Something that was made explicit in an earlier draft of the script

311
00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:21.840
but is reduced to sort of a one-line thing here.

312
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:24.419
It's actually last week, but I forgot to mention it.

313
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:29.519
Lumic and Cyrus Industries is referred to as working on

314
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.679
homelessness in New South America.

315
00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:36.600
The original draft script had reference to a quarter of a 1000000

316
00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:41.279
people going missing in New South America, and there's references

317
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.500
later here that there's other cybers factories around the world

318
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:44.580
processing people.

319
00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:50.399
So the idea is that Lumic trial cyber conversion somewhere away

320
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:55.320
from Great Britain, and of course, remember, in the pre-title

321
00:15:55.320 --> 00:16:01.019
sequence last week, which was hurriedly added at a later stage.

322
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:01.980
It was a reshoot.

323
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.039
The original Cliffhanger was my dad's still alive, bang into

324
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:05.519
titles.

325
00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.580
But Russell's like, no, we need the cybermen up front and the

326
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:10.440
centre because it's called Rise of the Cybermen.

327
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:14.220
And clearly that said a lot earlier than the rest of the thing.

328
00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:16.740
And it has him going back to Great Britain.

329
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:20.700
Set course for Great Britain, but importantly, he only wants to

330
00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:24.059
proceed if Great Britain can be the centre of it, because Pete

331
00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:26.279
says there's other countries we can try it, we can try New

332
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:26.639
Germany.

333
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:27.899
No, Britain is the motherland.

334
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.960
You know, it must be here.

335
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.759
B word B word.

336
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:34.139
Um, yeah.

337
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:40.440
And that's enhanced here because he goes after London, you know, we

338
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.960
don't hear people are walking from Coventry to London.

339
00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:43.679
No.

340
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:48.179
Do you think it's trading on that sort of British fascism thing?

341
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:52.440
Well, the Oswald Mosley with a Mitford in the room.

342
00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:56.940
Yeah, you've always got the tichotomy of high and low and of

343
00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:03.299
received and formalised and certain in the old, you know, the

344
00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:05.819
charming old English country house, right in the middle of an ice

345
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.759
age where everyone's wearing zip up shower's jetsuits.

346
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.660
You've always got something frightening happening with it.

347
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.599
Yeah, yeah, fascism and fascism and the ruling class.

348
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.299
Look, we forget Britain's not that different from France.

349
00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:21.599
They had a civil war to the point that they dug up the

350
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.319
pretenders.

351
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:26.279
They dug up the skeleton of Cromwell and hung the bloody thing.

352
00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:28.500
So that they don't get over things well.

353
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:33.900
It has a long memory of supremacy, of having an empire.

354
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:39.299
Because you've got a very, very stratified society in this

355
00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:40.559
parallel world.

356
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:41.880
Because that's what I was trying to say.

357
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.200
If you want to, the perfect cocktail, get out your shakers, if you

358
00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:49.980
want delicious fascism in your own home, you start off with fond

359
00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:53.700
memories of an empire gone and a heavily stratified society that

360
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:55.259
isn't quite running as it used to.

361
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.559
And you know, Zeppelins are German, you know, funny though.

362
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.259
Yeah, so maybe there is some sort of fascism here.

363
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:06.299
It's not just about consumerism and isolating ourselves from our

364
00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:08.460
feelings through technology and things.

365
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:10.619
What is fascism?

366
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.500
I mean, this is why it's so pressing for this.

367
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:14.579
It's certainly fashionable.

368
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.680
It's true that it always looks swanky.

369
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.799
It's no surprise that Hugo Boss designed every single little

370
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:20.279
outfit.

371
00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:21.420
Yeah.

372
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:25.079
So if you look at how fascism becomes popular, it's because it's

373
00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.900
really one of the 1st exercises in successful branding.

374
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.160
We have a look, we have a spiel, funny that we would use that

375
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:32.519
word.

376
00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:38.039
We have nostalgia, we have the painful memory of loss of something

377
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:43.500
that was once and always a misaligned memory of greatness.

378
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:47.819
There's usually an empire that's fallen not that recently that

379
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:51.420
allows fascism to rise and that we want to regain, but it's always

380
00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:55.619
in the most perfect stratified and very manufactured in that it's

381
00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:56.339
a tooling thing.

382
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.900
It comes from a post-industrial state where we have very much

383
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:05.700
classification of people as consumers and what ability you have to

384
00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:09.059
consume, dictates what level you are in this new society.

385
00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:14.640
Yeah, and it's funny you should mention with sort of Hugo Bos, you

386
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:16.920
know, designing the Nazi uniforms.

387
00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:21.119
Of course, these are the most designed cybermen we have, and they

388
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.559
are designed to look beautiful and desirable and streamlined and

389
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:26.160
streamlined.

390
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.160
And they're branded with a corporate logo.

391
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.319
And they're branded with, like, even the doctor says, you know

392
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.519
cyber, it's a brand.

393
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.319
Something I love about the old cybermen is, of course, they had

394
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.259
bespoke pieces on them, but they looked slightly cobbled together

395
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:44.640
whereas no, these cybermen have their excretia together.

396
00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:46.920
You know, they...

397
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.779
This is how they look.

398
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.059
And this is how they will look worldwide.

399
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:56.339
You know, it's a bit like this Apple sell the same iPhone exterior

400
00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:57.960
wise in every country.

401
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.519
Samsung have the same design features, everywhere, everywhere you

402
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:02.759
go.

403
00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:06.000
So instead of having, you know, no one will have a locally

404
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.839
designed cybermen.

405
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:11.099
We'll all have the cybermen based on the great British cyber

406
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:11.519
empire.

407
00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:17.460
Russell T. Davis and Tom McRae wanted to explore the idea of

408
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:20.519
conformity, which is why we get lines from the doctor, like, oh

409
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.619
you know, you lost anything for the latest upgrade.

410
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.720
And Rose says, well, it's not exactly me.

411
00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:27.359
Well, dear, you do have a new phone in this one that we haven't

412
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.779
seen before.

413
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:32.579
And it's, it's purely based on plot expediency because our old

414
00:20:32.579 --> 00:20:34.200
Nokia could not have played video.

415
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.259
No, they would have superimposed it.

416
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:38.579
Everyone would have gone, I've got that.

417
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:39.480
It doesn't play video.

418
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.660
Can I talk about missing characters?

419
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.519
Oh, yes, please.

420
00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:55.140
So, um, 2 characters were drafted into the story who were pretty

421
00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.119
much sort of streamlined out of it.

422
00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:03.720
So the preachers originally had a 4th member called Ismay, who was

423
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:04.980
an ex-green beret.

424
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:09.240
Now, the audition process for this story, because this was being

425
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:13.380
double banked with Army of Ghosts and Doomsday, pretty much a lot

426
00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:15.599
of actors were seen for parts in each story.

427
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:20.759
So one of the actors to audition for the part of Esme, who got

428
00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:24.180
very far along in the auditions before the character was dropped

429
00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:25.740
was Freema Adjumen.

430
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.660
And the reason the character was dropped was when Mrs. Moore's

431
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:34.440
character was more fleshed out, being played by the late Helen

432
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.160
Griffiths, who we lost last year, when she was more fleshed out, it

433
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.420
was decided to make them a bunch of talented amateurs, and having

434
00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:46.559
an ex-green beret in there was seen as, oh, well, actually, no

435
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:46.920
hold on.

436
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:49.740
She's got a bit too much experience for this role.

437
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.819
And pretty much her character was folded into Mrs. Moore, which is

438
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:56.759
why, as well as being the tech expert, Mrs. Moore is handing out

439
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:58.799
weapons and guns and stuff, you know?

440
00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:03.539
The other character who was in early drafts was Lumic's son.

441
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:09.119
So originally you had Jacob Lumick, who becomes John Lumick, Lumick

442
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:10.799
Sr., who is dying.

443
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:14.339
And as well as him pushing for immortality, his son is pushing for

444
00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:17.819
it as well because he wants to save his dad as a parallel to

445
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:18.119
Rose.

446
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.519
Yeah, that's more the novel version, isn't it?

447
00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:21.420
at 600 pages.

448
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:22.500
Exactly.

449
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.759
And so instead they decided, they pretty much fold his character

450
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:31.259
into Mr. Crane, who was then offered to Colin Spall, Graham

451
00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:32.220
Harper's old mate.

452
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:36.480
Finally, we would have said goodbye to another character in this

453
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:36.720
story.

454
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:38.160
Do we know about this?

455
00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:42.420
In the early drafts at the end, instead of the doctor saying we've

456
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:44.039
only gotten off power to get back to our universe.

457
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:49.559
He's actually got power for one more trip and they take Jackie to

458
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:50.279
be with Pete.

459
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:55.200
Knowing that then, at the end of the year, Rose would be reunited

460
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:55.859
with her family.

461
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.980
And the idea was Rose would kind of spend the next half of the

462
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:01.500
season sort of thinking and being torn.

463
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:01.980
Hold on.

464
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.680
I can be with my family or I can be with the doctor instead of it

465
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.599
being a snap decision at the end.

466
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:10.259
The whole reason, though, that Russell decided to keep Jackie in

467
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:14.700
the prime universe was suddenly realising if I don't have the

468
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:18.480
Doctor and Rose so much in Love and Monsters, I can make it a

469
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:19.440
showcase for Camille.

470
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.039
Yeah.

471
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.440
And she is the best thing about Love and Monsters.

472
00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:23.819
She's wonderful. absolutely.

473
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.720
And, you know, she doesn't get a lot to do here, but then in that

474
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:29.759
oh, I know we're jumping around all over the place, but in that

475
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.140
last scene, she's so sweet because she hears the TARDIS landing

476
00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:37.200
and it's just utter sheer joy.

477
00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:43.140
I actually find that scene so affecting. because we've lost Jackie

478
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:47.880
in the parallel universe and we get to see that she's safe.

479
00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:51.599
So we absolutely had to see her at the end of this episode. was

480
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.559
completely necessary.

481
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:57.240
The TARDIS materialises in the flat for the 1st time.

482
00:23:57.299 --> 00:24:00.240
Breaks the bloody coffee table again.

483
00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:02.759
And she asks.

484
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.039
She's the one who asks, where's Mickey?

485
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.799
Because, you know, that's the sort of thing that the doctor and

486
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:09.960
Rose are too kind of selfish to worry about.

487
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:14.460
She's the 1st to say, where's Mickey and the doctor gets to say

488
00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:15.539
he's gone home.

489
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.099
And it's so beautiful because of the relationship that has

490
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:22.799
developed between Jackie and Mickey as well.

491
00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:24.420
Which is lovely.

492
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:27.359
You know, that's one of the greatest things about aliens of London

493
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:32.460
and World War 3 is the 2 of them go from antagonists to like close

494
00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:33.059
friends.

495
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.099
It's delightful.

496
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.200
That scene is just beautiful, I think.

497
00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:44.339
Can we talk about Mrs Moore?

498
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.619
She's a very rustly character, I think.

499
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:50.220
It's funny that you mention her because I see her as a cypher for

500
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:54.599
many exact characters, poems, it's of that with, you know, John

501
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.759
both in John Wyndham's novels.

502
00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:59.880
There's one in Midwich cuckoos and an elderly lady, but definitely

503
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:02.160
Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

504
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:02.940
Thank you, Nathan.

505
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:06.059
The elderly lady running the library.

506
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:10.559
She's, she's actually, Christy uses this character with Marple.

507
00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:15.480
It's all about being the quiet, resolute radio for listener who

508
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.680
will ultimately save the universe by being the symposium of all

509
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.619
not only find knowledge, but appropriate behaviour.

510
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.460
We will win our empire back through nice manners.

511
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.779
That is very windy, isn't it?

512
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:32.579
Very survivors, remember?

513
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.839
Survivors is all about mucking in and being British and middle

514
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:37.259
class.

515
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:42.480
I really like that she gets this family detail and that she gets a

516
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:42.779
name.

517
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:46.380
Like we, um, the doctor and her spend a lot of time together in

518
00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:49.740
this episode, everyone's sort of split up into teams, aren't

519
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:49.980
they?

520
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:54.359
And she gets to go with a doctor and talk about her life and how

521
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.859
she got to where she was.

522
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:02.940
And all of that sort of backstory is just Peak Russell, I think.

523
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.480
You know, in someone else's, in a lesser writer story, she would

524
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:07.500
just have been a man.

525
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:09.420
We wouldn't have learnt anything about her.

526
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:14.099
She picks the name Mrs. Moore from a passage to India, I think.

527
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.400
It's a character from Ian Forster's a passage to India.

528
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:23.519
And she gets to be there when we find out what the cybermen really

529
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:24.000
are.

530
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:28.559
And she wasn't meant to be, at least not in that sense.

531
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:34.859
That scene where they knock out a Cyberman and disable the

532
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:39.299
emotionally inhibitor was originally seen out on location.

533
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.720
It was on their way to the factory and the whole gang was going to

534
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:42.960
be there.

535
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.900
But what happened was overshoots.

536
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.059
It was decided, okay, we'll need to shoot this in one of the

537
00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:49.140
internal locations.

538
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.799
Mrs. Moore originally died in the tunnels.

539
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:54.660
She didn't get up the ladder fast enough.

540
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.559
But when they decided, oh, well, we still need this scene, they

541
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.960
thought, well, if we're going to remount it, minimum amount of act

542
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.380
as possible, we need to have someone to talk to.

543
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.359
Well, let's keep her alive for another scene.

544
00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:09.299
Now, this is the scene my mother had problems with.

545
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.579
So at that point, I was acquiring the episodes before they had on

546
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:15.180
the ABC.

547
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:19.740
And pretty much watching them every week with my parents.

548
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:26.579
And, um, dad was quite drunk, so he passed out before we watched

549
00:27:26.579 --> 00:27:32.099
the episode and mum and I sort of waited 2 hours for him to for

550
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:32.700
him to wake up.

551
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:33.839
Yeah, it was a Saturday.

552
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.039
And finally, Mum just said, oh, let's just watch it.

553
00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:41.940
And so we watched it and we get to that scene, and of course, Mrs

554
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:46.799
Moore is horribly murdered by the one Cyberman who has silences on

555
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.160
his legs.

556
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:50.819
Is that stamping diegetic?

557
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.500
You know, the doctor says, oh no, you didn't have to kill her.

558
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.660
And my mum started shouting at the screen.

559
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.720
You've just been talking about killing all of them, she shouted.

560
00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:03.960
I said, yes, but they're, and she said, no, no, that one's getting

561
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:04.380
married.

562
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:05.759
They still know who they are.

563
00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:07.319
I'm like, that's a very interesting point.

564
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.819
But I think she knows who she is because they've broken the

565
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:13.680
inhibitor.

566
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:15.119
But they're definitely in there.

567
00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:18.059
I mean, Jackie knows that she was Jackie.

568
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:19.019
Interesting, yeah.

569
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:19.440
Yeah.

570
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:24.059
But I think that this is where we properly see what the cybermen

571
00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:25.680
are, where it's properly explained.

572
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.240
And it's never very clear.

573
00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:28.440
I think in the 10th planet.

574
00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:33.059
We assume that they're kind of people, you know, ensues.

575
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.539
But here it's clear that it's the brain and the nervous system

576
00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:39.660
that exists and everything else gets stripped away.

577
00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:44.579
And because what's happened to them is so horrifying.

578
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:47.279
They have to have an emotional inhibitor.

579
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:50.940
That's why side men have no feelings, not because they're robots

580
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:55.079
but because they've been so violated that they would go mad if

581
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:58.259
they didn't have the emotional inhibitor, and the doctor's

582
00:28:58.259 --> 00:28:59.640
solution is to switch it off.

583
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.099
And again, it's so rustly.

584
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:06.720
It's a little bit like in Boomtown where that young journalist is

585
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:11.759
pregnant and she talks to Margaret while Margaret's on the toilet

586
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.039
you know, having Sally.

587
00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:18.000
Like giving her a full name, Sally Phelan, she's got a name

588
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.380
Phelan.

589
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.900
She's not feeling when the emotional inhibitor is on.

590
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:23.400
Sorry.

591
00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:24.720
I'll cut that.

592
00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:26.700
No, please, no.

593
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:33.960
You deserve for everyone to hear that. and that she's going to get

594
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:34.380
married.

595
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:38.220
You know, it's so heartbreaking.

596
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:39.539
It's so terribly sad.

597
00:29:39.539 --> 00:29:43.440
And the doctor does like put her out of her misery.

598
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:44.579
He does kill her.

599
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:49.740
And in a way, with switching off the emotional inhibitor, you know

600
00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:52.380
it's it's horrible because it gives them back their feelings, but

601
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:54.839
it's also dying as a human.

602
00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:55.740
Yeah.

603
00:29:55.799 --> 00:30:00.119
You know, this terrible scene of one staring into a mirror.

604
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:04.619
You know, he's just looking at himself and what's been done to

605
00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:04.920
him.

606
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:09.960
And in terms of attention to detail, Nicholas Briggs and Graham

607
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.599
Harper said they had a lot of trouble with that scene because

608
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:17.519
Nicholas Briggs was providing the voices live and then dubbing

609
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:18.119
them in afterwards.

610
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:23.700
So Briggs had to give a performance of someone in torment that was

611
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:26.460
quiet enough that David Tennant could still be heard.

612
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:27.299
Right.

613
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.480
And, you know, David Tennant doesn't overperform that line.

614
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:32.700
Like, it's it's very, it's his catchphrase.

615
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:33.180
I'm sorry.

616
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:34.559
It's very effective.

617
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:36.660
I don't understand why some of them explode.

618
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.460
Well that just looks cool.

619
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:39.240
Yeah.

620
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.519
So we've all had our moments.

621
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:47.099
I do love that Russell forces, you can see his life and how he's

622
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:47.400
grown.

623
00:30:47.460 --> 00:30:49.980
And I'm just thinking back to queer as folk and what we've read as

624
00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:52.859
writers tell, but really you just need to watch queer as folk to

625
00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:54.119
see Russell's life.

626
00:30:54.180 --> 00:31:00.599
He's very much the character not, I don't think, Billy, but Rose, I

627
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:02.640
should say, but of Camille's character.

628
00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:07.259
He's very much, you are only the person you are because of the

629
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:09.839
terrible things that have happened to you, and they are actually

630
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.039
more just as worthwhile and possibly a bit more useful than all

631
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:14.519
the good stuff.

632
00:31:14.579 --> 00:31:18.839
You need both, but you're really only worthwhile because of the

633
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:19.500
awful thing.

634
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.400
So that's why that key moment, yes, we're jumping ahead.

635
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:28.259
But this story works because we see Jack at the end of this story

636
00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:34.859
and we realise that the loss of a mother, for both Mickey and Rose

637
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:39.359
could have completely defeated their lives and completely and

638
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:43.500
turned them into monsters, actually, cyber persons, unless they

639
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:49.200
own that and work through it and live through it and acknowledge

640
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:49.500
it.

641
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:53.519
And so Mickey only really becomes bigger than both Mickey and

642
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:58.680
Ricky when he takes care of his grandmother and realises that I

643
00:31:58.680 --> 00:31:59.700
have a 2nd chance.

644
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:02.160
And I think Rose will discover that as well.

645
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.559
Yeah, I mean, it's his home, isn't it?

646
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:07.680
The doctor says he's gone home and he's gone home to be with his

647
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:11.819
grandmother to look after her because he's got the chance now to

648
00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:12.539
keep her.

649
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:18.599
And especially considering the implication is that her death was

650
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:20.759
partially a fault of his inaction.

651
00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:21.480
Yeah.

652
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:26.640
And also, it's heavily implied that he has never told anyone that

653
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:27.900
because Rose doesn't comment.

654
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.599
You know, she fell down the stairs.

655
00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:33.240
She doesn't comment. like the carpet on the stairs had been ripped

656
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.920
for for years or anything like that.

657
00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:36.839
Mickey had been planning to fix it.

658
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:38.339
Yeah, I got around to it.

659
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.579
I don't think Mickey had ever told Rose that is the implication I

660
00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:42.059
get from there.

661
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.359
And also when he's saying goodbye to Rose at the end, when he

662
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:49.079
becomes emotional is when he's talking about how his gran is still

663
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:49.980
in this universe.

664
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:50.880
Yeah, yes.

665
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.940
Which is why I'm buggering off to a nurse that's honeymoon in

666
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:54.359
Paris.

667
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.619
Well, he'll pick her up on the way in the van.

668
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:01.859
Oh my God, she could be a preacher.

669
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.859
She could be blind out from Deadpool.

670
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:08.400
In the back with all the weapons.

671
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:11.940
Now, Graham, we need you to figure out how to make electromagnetic

672
00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:13.740
bombs because we just lost someone in the organisation.

673
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.000
It is really great, isn't it?

674
00:33:18.059 --> 00:33:22.079
It so pays off the beginning of the story where they're horrible

675
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:22.799
to Mickey.

676
00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:24.299
He's a 3rd wheel.

677
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:26.579
He's still the tin dog despite his efforts.

678
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:30.240
And he becomes a hero.

679
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:34.079
And the way this show shows that is by making him become the

680
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:39.900
doctor, and he actually says to Rose, something like, just hold on

681
00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:43.079
Rose, I'm coming to get you, which is what the doctor had said at

682
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:47.579
the end of episode 12 last year.

683
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:55.500
And so he gets to heroically save Rose, um, by, you know, steering

684
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:59.099
the Zeppelin and rescuing them from the exploding building.

685
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.019
And he becomes a doctor.

686
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:04.799
He has a life now where he goes across the world and fights

687
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:05.400
Cyberman.

688
00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:05.940
Yeah.

689
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:10.320
Now, of course, the moment in that scene, which catches my ear, is

690
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:14.460
when Mickey says that he learned to fly a Zeppelin on

691
00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:15.059
PlayStation.

692
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.559
Now, I've tried to do a little bit of research.

693
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:24.480
Mickey at this point is from the space year of 2007.

694
00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:30.480
So it's possible that he could have a PlayStation one, two, or

695
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:30.960
three.

696
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:36.179
And the novel winner takes all tells us that he has Grand Theft

697
00:34:36.179 --> 00:34:40.800
Auto, Grand Turismo, and one other game.

698
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.059
Now, Gran Turismo is exclusive to PlayStation, so that ties in

699
00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:45.420
with this.

700
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.619
Now, the Grand Theft Auto series has featured Zeppelin since Grand

701
00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:53.460
Theft Auto 3, which came out before this episode is set.

702
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.019
We live for this movie.

703
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:59.639
However, they were not flyable by the character until Grand Theft

704
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:00.900
Auto 5 in 2013.

705
00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:03.539
So I think this is just another example of how the Doctor Who

706
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:05.639
universe is slightly ahead of us, right?

707
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:10.440
In terms of piloting Zeppelins in video game technology.

708
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:15.239
Brilliant Now, um, You don't hear that on new to who, do you?

709
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:16.019
No, you don't.

710
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:19.199
And, you know, quite frankly, I think that's just as important as

711
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.920
any discussion about Rita Ann Smith, his grandmother.

712
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:36.960
Interestingly, Roger Lloyd Pack had very few scenes with the rest

713
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:37.739
of the cast.

714
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.300
He's actually got no scenes in person with the regulars.

715
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:43.079
Right.

716
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:46.619
You see, this is where his character falls apart a little bit for

717
00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:51.960
me in that when Mr. Crane attacks him, you know, makes his

718
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:56.039
wheelchair explode and presumably, you know, sneaks around the

719
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:57.840
back and disconnects his thermal lobes.

720
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:00.599
What a friend's fool.

721
00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:04.559
But, you know, then he's like, no, no, no, I don't want to

722
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:04.920
upgrade.

723
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:07.800
I don't want to, and I just kind of feel, mm.

724
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:13.800
The character up until this point, he hasn't almost religious

725
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.780
fervour for the idea of upgrading.

726
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:19.619
It isn't just about preserving his physical form.

727
00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:23.579
I feel it would have been far more chilling if he had seen it as

728
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:24.659
ascendency.

729
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:29.340
You know, if he had said to Mr. Crane before Mr. Crane dies, thank

730
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:29.639
you.

731
00:36:29.699 --> 00:36:31.860
Now I can ascend, kill him.

732
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.239
It would have just been the last removal of his humanity.

733
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:40.320
We haven't mentioned William Blake for this podcast, which is

734
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:44.280
unusual for this episode. you know, we usually do. in that we also

735
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:49.440
need to look at Britain's self-eulogizing and nods to

736
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.559
transcendence or it's aspirant nature.

737
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.260
And Blake is pretty much its voice for that.

738
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.500
But you see it through a lot of other fiction as well.

739
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:01.559
There's a whole lot, you know, we don't need to just look at the

740
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:06.119
US for evangelical senses of our future.

741
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.760
Yeah, manifest destiny.

742
00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:09.300
Exactly.

743
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.079
Her.

744
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.079
Please welcome to the stage.

745
00:37:13.139 --> 00:37:14.460
Manifest destiny.

746
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.420
I think Russell was terrified as a child watching Tomb of the

747
00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:27.119
Cyberman and seeing the brain inside the transparent cybercontrol

748
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:27.539
ahead.

749
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:29.880
And so he replicates it here.

750
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.039
Never been able to use a pressure cooker since.

751
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:39.659
On the commentary, Paul Casey. who was the lead cyberman and also

752
00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:41.579
inside the cybercontroller suit.

753
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.420
The lights that were in his eyes and brain.

754
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.119
He said, I couldn't see a thing.

755
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:52.679
I could see the white of David Tennant's collar and that's what I

756
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.059
used as my eyeline.

757
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.900
But yeah, you can't see a thing with Thor lights in front of your

758
00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:58.199
eyes.

759
00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:59.099
Graham.

760
00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.500
Gorgeous.

761
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:04.260
Oh, yes, he looks absolutely wonderful on the cyber throne of

762
00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:05.039
reasonable comfort.

763
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:07.980
It's ducted.

764
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:10.139
It is ducted.

765
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.380
And just like being able to sit on every good throw.

766
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.820
He couldn't keep his pants done up.

767
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.119
The cyberpants couldn't be done up at the front while he was

768
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:19.320
sitting on the throat.

769
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.780
That's what I said anyway.

770
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.139
You try relaxing into a comfy chair and keep your buttons all up.

771
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:31.920
I do, yeah, I do wonder what the nodules are about, but, you know

772
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:32.579
you've got to ask.

773
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:39.000
But as originally scripted, the Dr. Rose and Pete were going to

774
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.059
take a lift up to the roof to be rescued by the Zeppelin and the

775
00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:45.900
cybercontroller was meant to burst through the lift bottom so

776
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:46.320
close.

777
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:47.760
You could feel his fire.

778
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:53.699
They sort of cost it, okay, so we'll need to build a lift.

779
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.199
We need to build a collapsible floor.

780
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:56.699
The actors can also stand on.

781
00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:01.440
Or someone pointed out, you could do it on a ladder against black

782
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:02.039
drapes.

783
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.820
So it's like, oh, we'll do it on a ladder against black drapes

784
00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:06.119
then.

785
00:39:06.179 --> 00:39:09.059
It's another nice callback to the invasion, isn't it?

786
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:14.699
As is the fact that the cyberconversion facility, interior was

787
00:39:14.699 --> 00:39:19.260
meant to be a power station, but it was filmed during a very cold

788
00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:19.920
winter.

789
00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:22.500
So there was no downtime in the power station.

790
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:24.840
Pretty much the power station usually shut down and went to

791
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:26.820
automatic for 6 hours overnight.

792
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.280
But they couldn't do that.

793
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:35.280
So it was filmed in a brewery, just like the invasion, which was

794
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.639
directed by Douglas Canfield, which is a lovely bit of...

795
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:40.500
It looks amazing, doesn't it?

796
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:44.880
So those big tanks all become like cyber conversion units.

797
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:49.619
And that really nightmarish, and it's sort of very PG because

798
00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:52.380
there's no blood or no human beings in shot.

799
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.019
But that sort of thing that comes down from the ceiling, like a

800
00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:59.340
sort of shower rose with teeth that's covered in sort of, you know

801
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:01.440
chainsaws and things that chops you up.

802
00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:02.519
I think it's really cool.

803
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:06.300
I do think that the charm bracelet of death, isn't it?

804
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.480
Really, or really just sitting in any dentist chair.

805
00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:14.400
I think you, when you do this Ironman, you have to be about where

806
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.539
they come from.

807
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:19.440
And the problem in the 80s, I think, is that we kind of forget

808
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:24.239
that the cybermen were people who are converted into something.

809
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.300
And here it very much.

810
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:33.840
It's another great reinvention of a classic era, idea, and even

811
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:38.699
better, I think, than Dalek, because the Dalek had such a kind of

812
00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:43.440
a strong mythic resonance already in the classic series.

813
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:47.099
Whereas the side men, I think, needed more rescuing because

814
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:50.519
they're a bit more crap. sort of generally speaking.

815
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:54.960
And I think he does a great job reimagining them, like saying what

816
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:59.880
they are, giving them some kind of thematic resonance, giving them

817
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.320
a new origin story.

818
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.260
All of that, I think, is wonderful.

819
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:06.780
I think this is super underrated.

820
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.820
It certainly made us think about their wishes when it's always at

821
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:14.820
its best made us think about things that are, you know, far beyond

822
00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:17.760
what might appear on the screen at the 1st viewing.

823
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:20.699
But that's what good drama is.

824
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.099
It doesn't have to yell at you to make its point.

825
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:24.719
It should just nicely suggest.

826
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:28.500
It is a recapitulation of the whole history of the show too.

827
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.940
I mean, the 1st doctor classically faces off against the Daleks.

828
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:38.159
The 2nd doctor faces off against Cyberman and the 3rd doctor faces

829
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:39.599
off against the master.

830
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:43.260
Jolly good brand, of course.

831
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.739
And he introduces each of them in turn, you know, in the

832
00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:47.579
respective season.

833
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:48.659
Yeah, yeah.

834
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:53.579
And I think he is so clever to do it in a parallel world because

835
00:41:53.579 --> 00:42:00.840
Dalek continuity was convoluted, but, you know, there is a way to

836
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:05.699
rectify sort of post-Davros, pre-Davros, survival, timelines.

837
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:10.199
But the Cybermen timeline, God, it took David Banks 200 pages to

838
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:12.000
try and make sense of it in the classic series.

839
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.099
And then just as he finishes, they go and make another one.

840
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:20.820
And Tom McRae and Graham Harper both read David Banks Cyberman

841
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:21.179
book.

842
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:22.559
I've got it.

843
00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:24.239
I really liked it when it came out.

844
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.699
It's such fanness.

845
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.380
I cleaned that up.

846
00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:33.960
But, you know, it quite deftly acknowledges the continuity

847
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.840
problems, comes up with a continuity and admits where it can't

848
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:37.679
rectify things.

849
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:43.679
I think Russell is so wise to create Cyberman that are true to the

850
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.760
original idea, but also saying, I respect this past continuity.

851
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:52.019
Here is a reason I will not be tied to it at this stage.

852
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.760
He leaves it intact too.

853
00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:57.480
Yes, he says there are cybermen in our universe, but in this

854
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:01.500
universe, they arise on earth rather than on silly, you know

855
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:03.539
wandering, identical twin earth.

856
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.860
Malaysia.

857
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:10.980
And Russell keeps a consistent continuity for the cybermen from

858
00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:13.380
then on throughout his era.

859
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.179
All of the sidemen stories make sense.

860
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:19.260
And it's not until, I think, closing time where suddenly, you know

861
00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:22.380
there are assignment entombed in a thing 1000s of years earlier

862
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:24.360
and it's kind of like, well, where did they come from?

863
00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.659
And the idea is that Stephen Moffatt actually doesn't care and it

864
00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:30.179
doesn't really matter all that much. you know.

865
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:36.239
But Russell is, I think, writing this with an eye to a smart, nerdy

866
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:40.679
science fiction fan like he himself was during the 70s and he

867
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:43.320
gives it a proper continuity as well.

868
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:47.159
We even get a call back to Dalek, where we saw the cyberhead in

869
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:48.119
Van Staten's music.

870
00:43:48.179 --> 00:43:50.159
Yeah, Noel Clark insisted on.

871
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.539
Okay, so let's do pics of the week.

872
00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:09.900
My pick of the week is, uh, because I was recently extolling the

873
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:14.519
virtues of this to someone on Twitter, big finishes Cyberman.

874
00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:16.559
Oh, miniseries.

875
00:44:16.619 --> 00:44:18.960
So it's um, 8 audio plays.

876
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:24.780
And um, whereas Big Finisher's Dalek Empire subseries is sort of

877
00:44:24.780 --> 00:44:26.219
this massive space epic.

878
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:30.239
This really examines what are the sidemen.

879
00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:32.940
It's far more of a sort of techno political thriller.

880
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:33.780
Oh okay.

881
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:38.699
And yeah, you can get the whole series of 8 adventures for $20

882
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:40.380
Australian.

883
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:44.940
Yeah, but yeah, so Big Finishes Cyberman series. is my pick of the

884
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:45.119
week.

885
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:47.579
I jolly love it too.

886
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:50.699
Well, I was going to go with Philip Pullman, but we've all

887
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:51.360
discussed that before.

888
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:54.599
And I'm thinking, why did I love this and the feel of it?

889
00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:58.920
and we talked about Carol Reed and wartime, Britain and parallel

890
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:02.880
universes, but my favourite thing really that keeps coming back

891
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:04.380
into my mind is Connie Willis.

892
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:05.639
Have you read any of hers?

893
00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:07.559
She's so good.

894
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:12.300
And she loves she's an American author, but who loves Edwardian

895
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:16.260
humour and PG Woodhouse and Jerome K. Jerome.

896
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.880
So 3 men in a boat is her 1st pastiche where she does a parallel

897
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.619
universe time travelling thing.

898
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.820
Cambridge in the late 21st century has a time travelling device.

899
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:27.539
Right?

900
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.360
When we're not in any fascist state.

901
00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:32.699
None of that, none of the trumpetisms have ever happened.

902
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:35.699
Everything's gone on in quite a lovely way, and yes, there's time

903
00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:38.699
travel, but it's entirely Douglas Adams, and it's based at

904
00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:40.559
Cambridge University.

905
00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:42.000
So academics run it.

906
00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:45.659
And so her 1st novel is called to say nothing of the dog.

907
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.900
So it's a take on that, and it's just sublime and delightful.

908
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:52.739
Then she jumps to the Doomsday book, which is, which has a

909
00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:55.739
character slightly younger than Rose, and it's absolutely

910
00:45:55.739 --> 00:46:02.639
heartbreaking because a young girl, finally a student, transports

911
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:05.519
to the late Middle Ages, and of course, or the period of the Black

912
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:07.800
Death, and her device fails.

913
00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:09.119
They can't scoop her out.

914
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:10.739
So that's an extraordinary book.

915
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:12.840
But the 3rd...

916
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:16.079
Oh, there's a few other ones, but the blackout series, it's a

917
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.440
diptych, a double novel set, set in the 2nd World War, same

918
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.739
universe, some, sorry, the same business with Cambridge time

919
00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:26.940
travellers, and again, a lovely young girl gets trapped during the

920
00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:30.900
2nd World War, and it's just so good and has the same feel of this

921
00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:34.380
with the parallelisms and lots of Russell feeling writing.

922
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.619
So I really, just look up Connie Willis, but you, I guarantee if

923
00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:41.519
you love this era of Doctor Who and British SF, you will really

924
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.760
love Connie Willis's take on time travel.

925
00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:45.599
Brilliant.

926
00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:48.659
I want to bring the tone down a bit.

927
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:53.159
I've been watching a show on Netflix starring Gillian Anderson and

928
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:54.360
Husky Young actors in chairs.

929
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:55.440
Yes, what's it called?

930
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.179
It's called sex education.

931
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:03.300
And Gillian Anderson, who turns out, does a mean English accent

932
00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:06.840
because she, I think she grew up in Great Britain.

933
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:12.539
She plays a sex therapist who has a son and the son is the main

934
00:47:12.539 --> 00:47:17.340
character and the son goes to school and starts a kind of sex

935
00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:21.659
therapy clinic for his classmates for money.

936
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.579
It's really funny.

937
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:27.239
It's really it's really, really funny and clever.

938
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.139
What's that on?

939
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:29.039
It's on Netflix.

940
00:47:29.099 --> 00:47:30.719
It's a Netflix original.

941
00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:33.360
And Julian Anderson is just spectacular in it.

942
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:34.199
She's so great.

943
00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:35.159
She's so good.

944
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:39.300
So it's well worth watching, really, really funny stuff.

945
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:43.199
And do you know what Gillian Anderson's next big role is?

946
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:44.699
Yes.

947
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:50.280
She's going to be Margaret Thatcher in the Crown. this podcast

948
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.420
very own Olivia Coleman.

949
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:52.980
Oh, yes.

950
00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:55.920
She's wonderful.

951
00:47:55.980 --> 00:47:57.840
I mean, she is just so funny in this.

952
00:47:57.900 --> 00:47:59.219
The show is really, really great.

953
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:26.099
Well, dear listener, it's time to return to the real world, or at

954
00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:27.659
least a rough approximation of it.

955
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:31.679
We'll be back next week, glued to the set for the idiot's

956
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:32.159
lantern.

957
00:48:32.219 --> 00:48:35.880
In the meantime, you can find us at flightsthroughentirety.com

958
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.940
flights through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FT

959
00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:40.079
podcast on Twitter.

960
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:44.340
You can also find us at our series 11 flashcast, Jodi Interterra

961
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:46.260
which is at Jodi Interterra.com.

962
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:49.440
Jodie Interterter on Apple Podcasts and at Jodie Interterter on

963
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.400
Twitter and at our James Bond Commentary Podcast Bondfinger, which

964
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.579
is at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and Apple Podcasts

965
00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:58.559
and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

966
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:03.119
Until next time, may you remember to put your phone down every now

967
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.780
and again, or it will kill you and everyone you care about.

968
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:09.539
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

969
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.099
I'm off on my pedalow home.

970
00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:12.539
Good night. then.

971
00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:18.960
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottleley, Brendan

972
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:20.039
Jones and Richard Stone.

973
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:23.280
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane

974
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.539
Orberg.

975
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:27.480
This episode, delicious fascism, was recorded on the 2nd of

976
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:30.480
February 2019 and released on the 21st of April.

977
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.920
As you all know, the worst thing about Flight Through Entirety is

978
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:40.440
that it doesn't make money for Swedish tech bros.

979
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:43.739
And so we've now made it available on Spotify.

980
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.800
If you must go to our website and follow the link to subscribe.

981
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:54.420
He fell so in love with remaking Star Trek that it stopped being

982
00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:58.500
it stopped being a comedy at all and is just basically, yeah.

983
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:03.000
I'm still convinced that he wanted to make a comedic drama rather

984
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.119
than a comedy, and that's why the 1st 2 episodes have such sort of

985
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:06.780
comedy in them.

986
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:08.519
Yeah, they're good.

987
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:11.460
So it's the age of steel, by the way. and it's the 2nd of

988
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:11.820
February.

989
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:12.480
Right.

990
00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:15.960
What was I going to say about Galaxy Quest?

991
00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:19.199
Yes, the American DVD and Blu-ray, which I have.

992
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:22.980
I haven't watched it, but one of the audio tracks is Thermian.

993
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:24.360
Oh, really?

994
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.739
It's entirely done.

995
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:28.860
The alien language.

996
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:29.940
I know.

997
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.940
I just didn't realise it was even better than I'd always known it

998
00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:33.360
to me.

999
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:36.420
Well, that's like you can have the Klingon subtitles option for

1000
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:37.739
the entirety of discovery.

1001
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.940
About halfway through episode four.

1002
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.739
It's just like, are you really reading this?

1003
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:45.420
That's it.

1004
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:48.119
My sister got bitten by a moose one.

1005
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:54.119
Oh, like you still need a galaxy quest too.

1006
00:50:54.179 --> 00:50:57.420
Well, unfortunately, it will never happen.

1007
00:50:57.480 --> 00:50:59.579
Well, Daryl Mitchell is now paraplegic.

1008
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:00.780
The young black man.

1009
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:02.940
Oh, he was in a car accident.

1010
00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:05.940
Actually, I think he may have passed on by now.

1011
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:06.539
Oh, no.

1012
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:07.079
Oh, wow.

1013
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:08.159
And of course, Alan Rickman.

1014
00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:08.760
Yeah.

1015
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:09.780
Yeah.

1016
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:10.920
Which is sad.

1017
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:12.840
And it made in series, maybe?

1018
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.559
There are comic books.

1019
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:17.400
We got Orville, so.

1020
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.980
There are comic books. did see one. are they any good?

1021
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:20.760
I don't know.

1022
00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:24.059
I mean, I don't know if they're from the fictional perspective of

1023
00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:26.400
episodes of the original?

1024
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:28.019
I've looked at one the other day, but I didn't.

1025
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:31.260
I mean, I didn't read it, but no, it looks entirely as if it's the

1026
00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:32.400
you know, like the trek ones.

1027
00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:34.559
It's alt universe trek.

1028
00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:37.559
No, Orville, I think, is one of the best things on TV right now.

1029
00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:39.960
It's just this whole season has just been extraordinary.

1030
00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:44.039
I think I remember like a Star Trek, the Next Generation fanfic or

1031
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:48.599
something where the actors and the characters swapped places like

1032
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:52.320
the Mirror Universe and like Jonathan Frakes is on the Enterprise

1033
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:56.280
worrying about what Will Riker is doing with his wife and stuff.

1034
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.059
It's like, oh dear.

1035
00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:02.400
Okay.

1036
00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:06.119
All right, let me see if I can do this.

1037
00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:12.599
Marina saying Louise Jamison didn't have to wear contact.

1038
00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:18.659
Oh God, I love Marina.

1039
00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:23.679
Hello, dear listener and welcome back to...