WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:46:01

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that actually does have another 10

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miles of cable lying around, and you won't believe what we've been

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doing with it.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and I'm Peter.

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Promise I won't go mad.

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Well, after a week of sitting around waiting, nothing seems to be

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coming out of this big hole, and we've only got 55 minutes of

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oxygen left.

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So let's spend our last few moments on earth discussing the devil

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metaphysics and the Satan pit.

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So, Todd, what is the beast?

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Why are you asking me this question?

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Well, I know that you're a man of strong metaphysical

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convictions.

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What do you think it is?

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Fenrick.

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He is actually from before time.

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It's sort of weird that the doctor is so dogmatic about things not

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being from before the dawn of time where, presumably, the beast

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was hanging around on that spaceship in terminus or something, you

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know, like there's plenty of things from before the Grandfather of

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the Garm.

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Yeah that's right.

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That's right.

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Look, I don't know.

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Like, I mean, does they go through a litany of what he could be

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like, set and Satan.

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So there's a list of names.

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So as the oud sort of advance up the stairs, they talk about badon

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which is an old name for the devil and, you know, all of the names

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for the devil and things.

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And then the doctor speculates that every culture has a devil and

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he mentions the people of Demos and the people of Draconia.

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With horns.

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Yeah, with horns, a horned beast.

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They should have had a little shout back to Miss Hawthorne, who

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made much the same point, and maybe they could have pulled out the

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doctor's old sort of slide carrousel with horns.

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Thornhawk.

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See, that's one of the clever things about this script is that

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there are these little nods to classic who, in dialogue that, you

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know, if you're watching this for the 1st time, it's a piece of

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dialogue where you pick up some things and other things are just

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there.

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But for us as classic series fans, it's the last thing on the cake

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which I always love.

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Yeah, that bit of dialogue where he mentions all of those cultures

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that have the devil in them.

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There could have been any number of made up planets and it doesn't

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matter.

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So just sticking Draconia and Damos in there is really good.

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And it kind of addresses the question, you know, about the devil.

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There's a moment where Rose says to the doctor, you know, is there

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really a devil, tell me there's no devil, and he doesn't answer

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it.

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And all I could think about was pertwe telling Joe, like kind of

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telling Joe off for believing in a sort of mythical devil.

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It's nice because the Dr. Wayne doesn't dress it.

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He just goes very quiet and says, keep it together, Rose.

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It's a really nice moment.

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Yeah he doesn't answer it.

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And there is this feeling, I think, that the beast is in some ways

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just an idea that the devil is an idea that appears in sort of

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different cultures.

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And so the beast isn't sort of just a sort of big old monster or

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anything, but that he exists in the sort of space where ideas

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exist.

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That's the doctor's conclusion.

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Maybe the devil's an idea.

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And that's all he is in the end.

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And I like that the episode poses the questions and then talks

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about them, but doesn't provide any answers.

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See, I didn't like that when I originally watched it.

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Like, I just dislike it when things try to deal with, is there a

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devil or not?

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Like, let's give a definitive answer.

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Doctor Who doesn't generally go there?

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And I'm fine with it now, just like to say, like, I like the fact

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that we don't get a definitive answer and there is a discussion.

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I think it's really good.

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But initially I was, that was one of the things I didn't like

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about this particular episode.

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I was going, oh, really?

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We have to go there and sort of not answer it if we're going to

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pose the question, which, as you know, I'm pretty black and white

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with things and like my world to be in a nice little box.

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So.

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Well, I mean, I actually think that the weakest part of it is

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where they lampshade it in that final scene, where the doctor says

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I don't know, and that's okay.

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You know, like, I don't think we needed to be told that or needed

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to be reassured that we were deliberately not being told who the

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beast was.

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And I think that Doctor Who, being pinned down and having a very

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definite cosmology, I don't like that.

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It's a show that's been going for 50 years under the stewardship

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of, you know, many, many different creative teams.

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And so as a result, it's cosmology as a giant mess.

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And the show just, I think, should at this point just lean into

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that.

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Well, the doctor has that amazing line where he says, um, his take

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on religion is, I believe we haven't seen everything and that's

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why I keep travelling.

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I mean, that's a great idea of it.

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And so little of Doctor Who is about faith and religion.

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I mean, you know, unless you want to count the excellence or

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something like that.

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Well, I think I made this point before, that Russell gives

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religion back to Doctor Who, that he makes it a thing, whereas the

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only religious people who would appear in Doctor Who, in the

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classic era, were, you know, high priests who wanted to kill you

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the followers of Deimos, you know, there wasn't proper religion

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there.

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Yeah, some vicars who don't believe in God anymore.

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Or other master.

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Well, both.

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And so it is nice to have the doctor list a whole heap of

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religions, and then we hear about Ida's religion, and it's given a

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name, and the doctor asks her if there's a devil in her religion

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and she says, no, we just believe in the evil that men do.

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And in a religious context, men, you know, because sacred texts

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use old-fashioned language and stuff.

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Men is sometimes used to refer to people.

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But the way that she delivers that line.

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And the fact that it's her mother's religion and the fact that she

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has to run away from her father, we discover, from her backstory

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she says the line as if it's men, the evil that men, male adults

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do.

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Yeah.

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And and there is something here about human evil.

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The devil is an idea or a concept, but the real evil that we see

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in the world is the result of human action.

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And when Ida says the evil that men do is the devil in her

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religion, the doctor says, well, it's the same thing in the end

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that you can have a mystical representation of evil that's

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personified and part of your mythology, but talking about that is

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really a way of talking about, you know, the evil that people do.

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I think, um, as well, when she pauses, when she mentions her mum

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and just, just for a moment, reflects and says, my old mum, and

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you know that it's a really illuminating character moment, but it

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plays into that.

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Yeah, maybe let's move on and talk about that scene because we've

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had the doctor and Ida stranded down the pit.

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They can't get back now because the devil has somehow

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telekinetically broken the cable and there's no way for them to

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get back.

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And so they're stranded down in the pit for much of the episode

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the doctor and Rose are separated and the doctors left with Ida.

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And we talked a little bit about Ida last week, but she's one of

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those brilliant companions in waiting.

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Uh, so you think like Dr. Todd in Kinder or um, Amelia in The

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Stones of Blood, and she works so well as companion for this

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doctor.

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It's an extraordinary performance.

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Well, I'm just sitting here listening to what you're having to say

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about it.

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I don't know.

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I think whenever I watch this, and it happened again with this

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episode, is that when they're down there talking, I'm always

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looking at the visuals all around them, because when that ball

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goes up and it illuminates and when they're walking through and

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how cavernous it is, I just love this empty space.

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There's a beautiful shot, I think, where, you know, the doctor and

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Ida are quite small in the frame and we look off into the distance

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and there's these sort of rock bridges over a sort of giant

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chasm.

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It looks so beautiful and I think they do a great job.

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We should perhaps have mentioned this last week of integrating, you

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know, those giant dragon sculptures and that big temple.

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They integrate that, which is clearly a CG element into the

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footage of the quarry.

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And it looks incredible.

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Yeah, it's much like time in the Rani, really.

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It's very much like I was actually thinking how much like time.

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I mean, this story could only have been improved by melon a bubble

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trap going past.

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I mean, what beautiful location filming it is.

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They shoot at night.

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It's just a quarry wall.

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And yet they make it look like an underground cavern.

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And there's something they do to the sound as well.

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There's a very distinctive echo to it, which makes it sound

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totally authentic.

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Except that it doesn't make much sense because there's no air

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outside.

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But it works because it makes it feel like they're in a cave.

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Yeah.

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Can we go back to the cliffhanger resolution?

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Yeah, it's a total cheat, isn't it?

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Yes It's another one of these fake outs, like, you know, the

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camera is riding out of the pit, but is it just the essence of the

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thing?

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it's just the camera.

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It's just the camera.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah, nothing's actually rising.

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And, you know, he gloats.

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Doesn't the beast gloat.

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Gabriel Wolf gloats about escaping at the end of the last

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episode.

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But then he doesn't and he's still trapped.

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I like to think that the tin vagabonds stepped in and say...

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Does he say the pit is open and I am free?

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Yeah, yeah, but he's not free.

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I mean, his mind is free and I guess he's already sort of free.

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And so maybe the opening of the pit is what allows him to

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completely possess the ood properly.

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I guess that's how we have to read it.

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He's free through Toby and the Ud.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Not free.

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No.

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And it's not really made clear until the end and deliberately not

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made clear that the mind of the beast and the body of the beast

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are different.

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So the beast itself is still sort of chained up fabulously

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downstairs while its mind is free to take over the Ude and start

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sort of killing people. 1st watch, that was something that I

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didn't really pick up on.

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Like, I couldn't work it out.

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Yeah, I don't think it's very clear.

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But it's perfectly fine.

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Like, you know, I really like the fact that that's the way it's

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done.

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And of course, also with that cliffhanger resolution.

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We also kill off the female guard very quickly as well.

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Then he stands by Gormlessly.

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Yeah, well, we talked about that last week and it is a horrible

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scene because the camera is straight on her face and we see her

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reaction and her scream and, you know, her kind of shaking and

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stuff.

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So it's it is kind of horrible.

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But no one stops from in it and sort of registers her name and has

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a little bit of a speech and says 2 K 5 X one or whatever and, you

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know, does a little tribute.

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Well, assume on the on the pecking order when Zach gives his list

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at the end and he goes through the crew and then they come after

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the end.

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Yeah, that's right.

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They're at the very end.

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After basic slave guards.

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The Beast is such a great malevolent villain.

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He's dripping with malevolence and everything that he says is

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designed to make people uneasy.

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Like when he has that little pep talk with everyone over the comms

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before the cable snapped.

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He says, this planet is your grave.

250
00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:44.879
And you think, ooh.

251
00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:48.600
Even the bit too, where he seems to know much more about our

252
00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:52.200
characters than we do, and he goes through and gives a secret to

253
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:52.799
each of them.

254
00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.639
So like Jefferson's wife must have died.

255
00:12:56.700 --> 00:12:58.440
Like the way that I read it.

256
00:12:58.559 --> 00:12:59.279
She never did.

257
00:12:59.340 --> 00:13:03.659
No, she never forgave you, which means that she's not going to do

258
00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:06.419
it in the future because she's lost the chance because she's

259
00:13:06.419 --> 00:13:07.259
dead.

260
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.919
But I also think too, there's a kind of sort of horror film trope

261
00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:15.179
where the devil actually knows that because his wife is down here

262
00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:19.320
in hell with her being tortured, you know, like, yeah, you know

263
00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:21.899
there's something kind of horrible about that, the reason that the

264
00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:26.100
devil knows is because the devil lives in the underworld and

265
00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:27.480
that's where dead people are.

266
00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:28.919
And so he knows that.

267
00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:30.720
But he knows about everyone.

268
00:13:30.779 --> 00:13:35.580
And the thing where Toby's the virgin.

269
00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:36.059
Yeah.

270
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:37.980
Do you know my theory about this?

271
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.700
I have no evidence to support this, but it feels like where Toby's

272
00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:45.240
the Virgin and Danny's the little boy who lied, it feels more

273
00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.059
naturally that it should have been reversed because Danny is a

274
00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:50.039
more authentic virgin than Toby is.

275
00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:51.539
Because he's a sort of nerd.

276
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:53.580
He's a nerd and he's jishery.

277
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.399
And Toby, because he's shifty, looks like the little boy who

278
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:56.759
lies.

279
00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.919
So it's very interesting that that's not the case.

280
00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:04.500
Although I think that it's sort of a rustly detail to do something

281
00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:06.120
surprising there.

282
00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:12.480
And because we do see Toby actually quite withdrawn and shy.

283
00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:16.500
Like Danny is much more sort of friendly and gregarious and

284
00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:20.519
confident than Toby, who is, you know, sort of classically

285
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.120
handsome and built and all of those sorts of things, but is super

286
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.679
kind of withdrawn.

287
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:29.340
It's interesting that the beast is basically listing character

288
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:33.480
flaws as they go with a little boy who, like, is being a virgin, a

289
00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:34.139
character floor.

290
00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.419
He's looking for something that shames the characters.

291
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.460
Yeah, it is a weird choice.

292
00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.299
I also think that we get something about Ida's father, like she

293
00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:45.960
runs away from, you know, the scientist who runs away from daddy

294
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.100
and we've already talked about that conversation that she has

295
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:51.120
about her mother.

296
00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:56.759
So it does sound like the father has perhaps abused her or

297
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.820
mistreated her mother, but he's no longer around.

298
00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:04.500
And the accusation that the beast makes is that she's still

299
00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:06.659
running away from that part of her childhood.

300
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.899
And she has the moment with the doctor in the lift where the

301
00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:12.179
doctor's trying to convince them that the beast is playing them

302
00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:15.600
and she looks utterly shocked and she says to the doctor, how did

303
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:16.379
it know about my father?

304
00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:21.480
That's really good too, because I think the doctor came into the

305
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:26.519
base in the 1st episode and was, you know, banging on about how

306
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.500
brave and wonderful and crazy and beautiful and indomitable they

307
00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:34.740
all are in that sort of usual sort of tendency way.

308
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:39.360
But here he uses that speech to counter what the beast says.

309
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.039
You people are brave.

310
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:43.019
You are friends with one another.

311
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.600
The beast is on its own, but we're not.

312
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:48.779
There's another story that can be told about you.

313
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.600
And that's the story that I want you to hang on to now.

314
00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:52.679
I think it's really good.

315
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:55.139
Yeah, it's superbly written.

316
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:59.039
And talking about Ida and the way that she reacts.

317
00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:03.360
She pleads later on, she says, I don't want to die on my own, which

318
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.120
is, you know, of course, we can all be on board with that.

319
00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:10.200
But that's kind of as good an explanation of having faith in a

320
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:11.940
higher being as I've heard.

321
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.019
You don't want to die alone.

322
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.100
You don't want to think there's nothing.

323
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.039
In fact, that scene is beautifully well played as well, because

324
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.240
she says that to try and persuade the doctor not to jump down the

325
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:26.279
pit, and his response is to say, I know, but he's going to do that

326
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:26.940
anyway.

327
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:31.799
There's a melancholy that infuses last week and particularly this

328
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:36.120
week because this week's episode narrows its focus down onto the

329
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:36.600
characters.

330
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.460
It's not all about the world building.

331
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.600
There's a morning, kind of a sense, I spoke last week about the

332
00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.480
fact that they're all alone, and these people really are alone

333
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:47.519
even though they're together, they're all struggling with their

334
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:48.179
own demons.

335
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.820
They're all desperately battling to get out of it.

336
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:54.659
There's something very dark and dismal about the feeling the

337
00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:54.960
episodes.

338
00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:58.379
Well, I mean, particularly since Ida and the doctor have the sort

339
00:16:58.379 --> 00:16:59.879
of clock running out.

340
00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:02.639
They've got, you know, less than an hour of oxygen.

341
00:17:02.700 --> 00:17:06.180
There's no way that they can be rescued, and for a long time

342
00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:09.180
they're out of communication with a base upstairs.

343
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:13.559
And the fact that they have the time to just have a quiet moment

344
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:18.000
and discuss what's going on is so nice and so rare.

345
00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:22.140
I think there's an instinct among classic Doctor Who fans to wish

346
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:27.240
that any given sort of 42 minute story was actually a 2 parter, you

347
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.019
know, wouldn't victory of the have been great if it was a two

348
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:31.019
parter.

349
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:33.779
Well, no, we'd have had to watch another 42 minutes of it.

350
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.119
We would have preferred a 0 parts.

351
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:42.599
But here I can see why people say that because there is a moment

352
00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.420
for sort of proper character stuff.

353
00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:48.779
And that observation about falling, you know, they're at the side

354
00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:52.619
of the pit and go on, go on, go over, go on.

355
00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:55.980
Yeah, yeah, that thing where you where you're standing at the edge

356
00:17:55.980 --> 00:18:02.460
of a cliff and you think I could just jump and all that's between

357
00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:05.640
me and jumping and falling is a decision that I could make.

358
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:07.920
You see it in your mind's eye, don't you?

359
00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:09.240
The fact of you doing that.

360
00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:10.079
Yeah.

361
00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:13.680
And that wonderful thing where the doctor's falling and that's the

362
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.920
moment where they reestablish communication with the base

363
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:18.299
upstairs.

364
00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:22.859
And, you know, Ida has to say he's fallen. couldn't stop him.

365
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:23.640
It's so good.

366
00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.039
There's something about the pacing of this story.

367
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:28.920
I think it's perfectly paced, maybe the most perfectly paced 2

368
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:30.059
parter of the series.

369
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.460
Um, there's, it rattles along.

370
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.680
It keeps moving from one action piece to the next.

371
00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:38.220
And yet it stops every time to have a discussion about the

372
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:39.660
important things that make you feel it.

373
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:43.319
And so that scene you were talking about standing on the edge of

374
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:45.599
the pit, that would never be in a single episode.

375
00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:48.180
It just, it's too long and too involved.

376
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:49.619
It holds up the story.

377
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.480
But here, it propels the story.

378
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:02.400
I just thought it was really interesting that our Beast identifies

379
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.500
the doctor as the killer of his own kind.

380
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:05.640
Oh, yeah.

381
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.740
And he talks, everybody's in the past.

382
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.279
It's all about their history, but for Rose, it's the lost girl.

383
00:19:11.339 --> 00:19:14.160
The valiant child who will die in battle very soon.

384
00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:18.839
She's only one that he makes a prediction of for the future, like

385
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:20.400
you know, foreshadowing a few weeks time.

386
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:24.059
I think that's partly an artefact of the fact that this is shot

387
00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:26.700
after Army of Ghosts and Doomsday.

388
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.700
So they decide to put a bit of a prophecy in there.

389
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.759
She's really rattled by it too.

390
00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:35.460
And the doctor twice has to reassure her that it's not going to

391
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:35.640
happen.

392
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:39.059
Yeah, there was that feint at the start of army of ghosts where

393
00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:41.220
Rose says in the teaser, this was the day that I died.

394
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:45.059
So I think that that might have been a promotional point, will she

395
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:45.720
won't she die?

396
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.200
We know she's leaving, don't we, at this point?

397
00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:49.559
Yes.

398
00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:49.859
Yeah.

399
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.779
When did they announce that?

400
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:56.640
Um, I think it might have been early in series 2 because Billy was

401
00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.460
always going to come back for the 1st 6 episodes.

402
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.940
And so I think she was going to depart on the age of steel.

403
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.180
But then early on, she decided that no, she'd do the entire

404
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:06.660
season.

405
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:08.460
And so they had the extra time to play with.

406
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.099
But I think she might have had Mickey's departure.

407
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:12.779
I said Mickey got hers.

408
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:13.440
Right.

409
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:13.859
Okay.

410
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:15.539
Does Rose swear in this episode?

411
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:16.920
You know when they have that static search?

412
00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:18.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's about to swear.

413
00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.500
And I think the doctor said, oh, you know, watch out.

414
00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:24.900
I like it when they do those sort of things.

415
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.019
Well, she's super angry at him and super, you know, I actually

416
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:31.680
really like the 2 of them when they're apart when they separated

417
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:36.720
like this, you know, her concern for him is really, is really

418
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:36.900
good.

419
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.720
And she's super massively competent in this one, isn't she?

420
00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:41.700
Well, she gets to inspire her crew.

421
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:48.240
Yeah. and work with our captain to go along all the little the

422
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.259
ventilation shafts.

423
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:49.680
Yes.

424
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:53.460
Can I just say of all the Hinchcliffeness of this story, and of

425
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:56.640
course, you know, Matt's a huge Philip Hinchcliffe fan, I think

426
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.599
he's more a Hinchcliffe Fearer fan than he is of Doctor Who, in a

427
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.900
wider sense, for all the kind of Hinchcliffe tropes of like the

428
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:07.980
ancient evil coming back for revenge or what's your thing, Nathan?

429
00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:09.599
Not sufficiently executed enough.

430
00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:14.339
So this is our 2nd story in a row where we have a villain who

431
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:19.079
whose people tried to kind of execute or imprison it. but didn't

432
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:20.220
do a very good job of it.

433
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:21.299
And so they've escaped.

434
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:25.980
And so it's like Eldrad or Su Tech or, you know, it's a very Hinge

435
00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:27.180
Cliff kind of trove.

436
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.700
And I mean, what are we to do if you've got 2 episodes?

437
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:30.720
And the 1st one, you set that up.

438
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:32.579
The 2nd one you've got to have ventilation charts.

439
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:33.480
You do, yeah.

440
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.180
I mean, and you know, possibly a rocket that provides an

441
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.319
independent power source.

442
00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:39.240
But, you know, it's all good, steel for the best.

443
00:21:39.299 --> 00:21:42.599
I love the fact that with these ventilation shafts, they actually

444
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.059
have to put the air into the ventilation shafts in different

445
00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:48.359
sections, normally, you know, the air's just already in there. and

446
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.339
the ud are suddenly after them.

447
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.359
And Danny gets so like, there's one sequence there where he's

448
00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.660
really just like losing it.

449
00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:58.200
Oh, yeah.

450
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.500
And I love the fact that they get to work in through the captain

451
00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:04.079
that, you know, he's talking about the torch with archive when

452
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:09.359
he's talking, you know, doing his little talking to them and yeah

453
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.240
and all the jokes about their butts and stuff.

454
00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:13.019
Yeah, yeah.

455
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:14.640
Why am I on that again?

456
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:16.740
Last week, this week.

457
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:17.819
Oh my goodness, I'll shut up now.

458
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.480
In fact, the oud are properly scary in the ventilation shaft, just

459
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:23.339
the way that they walk with their forearms.

460
00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:24.299
Very quickly.

461
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:25.200
Yeah, yeah.

462
00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:27.599
It's not a sort of slow moving thing that you've got to get away

463
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:27.960
from.

464
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:31.859
And we get the death of Jefferson, which again is another death

465
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:35.519
that really properly lands, like Scooty last week.

466
00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:37.259
And we learn his 1st name, John.

467
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:38.519
John, yeah, yeah.

468
00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:40.019
It's really upsetting.

469
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:41.339
I actually find it really upsetting.

470
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.880
I think it's a great performance by Danny Webb as an older actor.

471
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:45.420
Yeah.

472
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:50.099
He's sort of like a forerunner to Graham, like in the current

473
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:50.519
series.

474
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:54.119
Like I really do think that he had the potential to be with the

475
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:55.680
doctor. in some way, you know?

476
00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:59.039
He's very good, and he does get to do that thing where he's going

477
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:02.099
to shoot Toby, and, you know, Rose has to interpose herself

478
00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:03.240
between the 2 of them.

479
00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:09.059
You know, he's grizzled and tough, but he dies saving them.

480
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:13.799
And there's a very nicely framed scene with Toby sat down, you

481
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:16.079
know, when he's recovering from all of that, and Rose and

482
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:18.299
Jefferson in the background, and Rose is doing things at the

483
00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:21.960
console, and Jefferson is just staring at Toby throughout the

484
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:22.500
entire thing.

485
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:23.819
It's really quite unsettling.

486
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:27.779
I just think it's so convenient that Toby is just accepted like

487
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:29.339
he's not possessed anymore.

488
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.660
Doesn't the doctor say something about that?

489
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.200
Oh, Rose says he's clean or whatever.

490
00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:35.400
It's not the doctor.

491
00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:38.220
And it's like one of those convenient things where it's like, oh

492
00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:41.039
yes, he's clean. you know he's never going to be possessed again

493
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:43.319
one of those convenient things where the TARDIS has fallen down

494
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.200
into the middle of the planet just for the doctor to lean back on

495
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:46.380
it.

496
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:49.619
There's a couple of convenient things in this.

497
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.980
I actually think it's sort of sold because because we do see that

498
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:56.400
special effect of all the all of the letters, you know, coming off

499
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:58.259
him into the Oude. absolutely.

500
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.980
And Doctor Who usually sets it up as a Doctor Who troop, you know

501
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:04.619
people are possessed, but then once they're no longer possessed

502
00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:05.099
that's fine.

503
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.279
I mean, I can't think of another story where someone is just

504
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.819
suddenly possessed again, usually it does pass out of them, whereas

505
00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:12.359
here it doesn't.

506
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:16.140
I actually think there's one fantastic moment, which is where

507
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:20.099
they're emerging from the ventilation shafts into the sort of oud

508
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:21.180
control area.

509
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:26.339
And the oud nearly catch up with Toby, who's doing a sort of giant

510
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:29.579
panic, and then he just turns to the oud, and he's got the red

511
00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:33.779
contact lenses in and he puts his finger to his lips and does the

512
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:35.640
most terrifying smile.

513
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:37.680
And it really is super wonderful.

514
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:40.559
And then later on, I think he gets a hug from Rose or something

515
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.460
and he kind of looks really, really uncomfortable and doesn't like

516
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:45.059
it at all.

517
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.059
And I think that is just wonderful.

518
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.279
And I don't think he's possessed again.

519
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:56.039
I think he's got Gabriel Wolfe in his head the entire time and

520
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:59.160
he's just pretending not to be under its influence anymore.

521
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:00.119
From that point.

522
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:02.400
Yeah, no, I agree with you from that point.

523
00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:06.839
He is totally taken over and he is just Toby is dead.

524
00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:08.519
Yeah, he's super fantastic.

525
00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:09.420
He's really really good.

526
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:14.039
I wish I had Gabriel Wolf in my head all the time. imagine Yeah, I

527
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:14.279
do.

528
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.799
So the other thing that I want to talk about is this is a very

529
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:24.000
standard base under siege at this point where you have monsters

530
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.759
running amok, killing people one by one and we have to do things

531
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:28.380
to kind of defeat them.

532
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:35.460
And I think that it's super interesting that what we actually have

533
00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:41.700
an oppressed race of people who are mistreated and disregarded by

534
00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:46.859
our main human characters, doing what perhaps they have every

535
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:52.980
right to do, which is to rise up and overthrow their oppressors.

536
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.859
That's the side the doctor normally is on.

537
00:25:56.099 --> 00:26:02.339
And they're inspired to do that by the devil, who himself is a

538
00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:04.140
rebel. you know, in Christian mythology.

539
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:05.460
He rebels against God.

540
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.000
He takes a 3rd of the angels with him and is thrown out of heaven

541
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.720
for his pride and his pride is sort of wanting to take God's

542
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:13.079
place.

543
00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:17.519
The devil has always been in rebellion against God.

544
00:26:17.579 --> 00:26:22.500
And here are these, here are these Oud, who are slaves, who are

545
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:27.660
just slaves, and they rise up, but the moment they do that, they're

546
00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:32.220
evil, and they're a threat, and we're on the side of the people

547
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:33.660
who are oppressing them.

548
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:38.819
And there is something uncomfortable about that, I think.

549
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.880
And I think it's something, I don't know whether it's conscious or

550
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.299
deliberate or not, but I think it works really, really well.

551
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.140
There's a kind of, there's a kind of moral indistinctness about

552
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.779
what's going on despite the fact that one of the characters is

553
00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:53.039
openly the devil.

554
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:54.839
So do you feel that when you watch it?

555
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.019
I don't normally, but I really felt it this time.

556
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:00.660
Like the 2nd time I watched it in preparation for this.

557
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:07.619
I thought that it was a really kind of interesting choice.

558
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.079
And I do think it's the same choice that we make in robots of

559
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:10.380
death.

560
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.920
So robots of death is another base under siege where the slaves

561
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.259
rise up and start killing their masters.

562
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:18.059
And so what do we do?

563
00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:20.700
Well, we have to protect the masters and make sure the slaves are

564
00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:23.579
all killed so that the rebellion stops.

565
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.880
And their leader is someone who's rebelling against this sort of

566
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:31.680
stratified society and is trying to free his brothers from their

567
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:32.759
oppression.

568
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:36.180
And I don't know whether it was because I 1st watched Robots of

569
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:38.700
Death when I was like 10 and didn't pick any of that up.

570
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:40.680
So it all sort of seems to make good sense.

571
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:48.059
Whereas here, I think, I think that in a story which is about

572
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:53.940
human evil and human ideas of evil that associating that evil with

573
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:58.140
rising up to throw off your oppressors is really interesting.

574
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:00.960
Some of the things that men do, maybe to have the basic slave

575
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:01.380
races.

576
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:04.980
Yeah, and I don't think, you know, like I don't think that it's

577
00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:07.619
unambiguously on the side of the oppressors.

578
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:11.579
I don't think that this is a right wing tale telling us that the

579
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:14.940
underclasses should continue to be mistreated and it would be

580
00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:16.259
wrong of them to expect otherwise.

581
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.920
I'm not saying that it has a right wing explicitly deals with this

582
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.420
but it is super interesting.

583
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:25.740
And this is why I do FTE podcast because I never think of these

584
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:25.980
things.

585
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:27.900
I'm still the 10 year old child, everybody.

586
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.140
And Nathan or Peter or somebody else brings up this and it makes

587
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:32.579
me think about it for the 1st time.

588
00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:35.880
It's an extraordinary interesting point that you make and it's and

589
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:37.079
well observed.

590
00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:41.160
And when they're getting pursued by the oud at no point to

591
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.180
actually go, well, kill them because you're the slaves.

592
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:46.079
I never think about that.

593
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.839
And they're possessed, like they're red and they're horrible

594
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:51.900
monsters and stuff like that, you know, like, and that's how

595
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:52.500
they're shot.

596
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.940
That's how we're meant to read them.

597
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.359
But it's interesting, the kind of underlying thing.

598
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:58.500
And even at the very end.

599
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.099
You know, the doctor has one trip to make in the TARDIS, and he

600
00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:07.380
can rescue 50 Ude or one woman, and he rescues Ida and just leaves

601
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:09.180
the Ude to die and is apologetic about it.

602
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:13.680
And of course, we would have been horrified had he left Ida to die

603
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.619
and sort of heard it a whole heap of kind of squidhead guys into

604
00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:20.640
the Tartars, so that they could be happily reunited with sort of

605
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.680
Zach and Danny in the final scene.

606
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:25.259
Or squeezed into that conference. right.

607
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:26.400
That would have been terrible.

608
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.420
On Danny's lap.

609
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:35.880
But now once you think about it, that decision seems kind of dodgy

610
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:36.299
as well.

611
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:40.019
It does, but there's an unintended side effect to that, that the

612
00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:43.680
doctor doesn't know that Rose has gone with Zach and Danny.

613
00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:44.579
He's just assuming.

614
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.599
So it's implicit that he made the decision to save Ida over Rosa.

615
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:56.579
Isn't there some sort of continuity problem in some of the

616
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.519
dialogue at the end here, the doctor says something that he can't

617
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.059
possibly know.

618
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.400
I just kind of went, how does he know this?

619
00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:05.220
How does he know that the rocket loses protection and falls into

620
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.759
the black hole?

621
00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:06.539
How does he know this?

622
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:10.799
Maybe he picks it up, you know, while he's in the Tartar.

623
00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:17.819
I think that the resolution here is a little bit kind of a bit too

624
00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:18.359
easy.

625
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:22.200
But certainly, I think just sort of getting to the end and getting

626
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:25.079
the rescue happening and stuff is the right decision without a lot

627
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.920
of faffing about and seeing shots of the doctor looking at screens

628
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:30.359
or something in the TARDIS.

629
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:35.579
Like it needs to be a surprise and for it to be a surprise.

630
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.400
Rose and the audience need to learn about it at the same time.

631
00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:42.059
No, I think it's very clever, like working it out at the same time

632
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:46.259
but that rocket thing does strike me as a fault in the script that

633
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:47.819
he knows about it, how does he know about it?

634
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.000
It's just something that, you know, but I just love all the stuff

635
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:55.619
with Rose and Toby suddenly turning, like with all the lettering

636
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:59.039
and, you know, the seatbelt and the that one shot with the gun

637
00:30:59.039 --> 00:30:59.400
thing.

638
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:02.579
Yeah, so she's got the bolt gun that Zach had in the control

639
00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:04.740
centre and it's a joke.

640
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:06.599
It's actually quite well introduced.

641
00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:11.160
It's Chehov's bolt gun, but he makes some kind of hilarious remark

642
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.759
about how he could take out one ode, maybe, if he was lucky, and

643
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:16.859
that's all the armaments that he's got in the room.

644
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:18.779
And then they've got that with them.

645
00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:23.519
And obviously, we can't have Rose shooting Toby.

646
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:25.440
That would have been terrible.

647
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:27.960
Yeah, it would have been...

648
00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:29.160
Bring back Eric, say what I say.

649
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.720
Can you imagine?

650
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.319
So she shoots out the windscreen and lets Toby get sucked out into

651
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:34.559
space.

652
00:31:34.619 --> 00:31:37.559
It's really great and really lucky that they have those emergency

653
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.400
shields on this rocket.

654
00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:39.779
She didn't know that.

655
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:42.059
It's also lucky that Danny had his seatbelt on.

656
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:42.720
She didn't know that.

657
00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.839
And it's also extremely lucky that the doctor falls back on the

658
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.380
TARDIS, which just happened to fall into exactly the right. love

659
00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:49.619
that.

660
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:52.559
I don't just when all hope is lost.

661
00:31:52.619 --> 00:31:54.299
You've forgotten all about the TARDIS.

662
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.359
There it is, and the music sends you spirit soaring.

663
00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:00.779
The music is wonderful, but I just think it's such a...

664
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:01.440
Too convenient.

665
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.880
Amazingly convenient.

666
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:03.359
I love it.

667
00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:05.940
Do you think if there's a devil, there might be a god?

668
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:07.319
Who's done?

669
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:07.859
Yeah.

670
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.700
Thank you again for enlightening me on this.

671
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.599
I just want to say, you know, can you explain to me the 2 pots

672
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:16.619
like, what do they do?

673
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.259
Yeah, no, and again, that's another one.

674
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:23.400
You know, we, everyone raves about Pyramids of Mars, but Pyramids

675
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.539
of Mars is resolved by the doctor wiring up a console and pressing

676
00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:31.619
a few buttons and then sending Soutek off into the distant past or

677
00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:31.980
whatever.

678
00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:35.640
And it's super undramatic and massively uninteresting.

679
00:32:35.700 --> 00:32:40.680
And there is that scene, which just consists of a long speech by

680
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:42.599
David Tennant who has no one to talk to.

681
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.119
Just like the nesting consciousness in rose.

682
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.079
It's that again.

683
00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:47.220
Yeah, but he's not.

684
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:48.900
I mean, he's talking to the beast and the beast isn't really

685
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:52.440
listening and he's kind of working out what's going on, but he has

686
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:53.819
nothing to go on.

687
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.319
He just sort of comes up, or, you know, maybe I'm supposed to bust

688
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:02.759
these lovely vases or whatever, and they'll have whatever effect

689
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:05.400
I've just speechified about.

690
00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:09.180
And so I'm not convinced that that works very well.

691
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:11.579
We've got all this writing on the wall, like the twin dilemma

692
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.420
about the history of everything.

693
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.000
I was thinking about colony in space, actually.

694
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:18.000
Well, no, I was thinking about between dilemma, Nathan, because I

695
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.259
always think about the twin.

696
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:23.819
Yeah, well, your version does have slugs in it, so...

697
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:25.980
This story could have been improved with mess store.

698
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:26.700
It's all I say.

699
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:28.619
Oh, Mel in a bubble trap, Mestor.

700
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.119
Oh, Rose.

701
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:35.700
You know, can I just say, like, okay, it's very convenient that

702
00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:36.539
the cable snaps.

703
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.460
It's very convenient that they can get the cable out of that

704
00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:42.119
tangled mess and get him to go down and then it's very convenient

705
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:44.579
that, you know, there just happens to be an air cushion.

706
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:46.200
Like, where did the air cushion come from?

707
00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:46.980
Have I missed something?

708
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.200
No, so the dog just created the air cushion.

709
00:33:49.259 --> 00:33:53.519
No, the doctor suggests that the Beast's jailer created the AK

710
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:53.819
Bush.

711
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:58.200
So originally, well, I'm not really sure because we wanted someone

712
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:03.299
to, if the mind of the beast ever escaped or something, we needed

713
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:07.079
someone to smash those vases for some reason, like I'm not

714
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.300
entirely sure that any of that really properly works.

715
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.119
Dear Matt Jones, I love these episodes.

716
00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:15.960
I'm sorry that I'm pointing out these little things right at the

717
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:20.159
end, but I just at this point, this is why, for me, this is not

718
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.000
the top of the season.

719
00:34:21.059 --> 00:34:26.340
I love this story and I love so much of it, but it's all these

720
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:27.119
we're lucky we've got this.

721
00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:30.000
Lucky we've got that, all these little things that, for me, are

722
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.219
just convenient or it feels very, we've got 5 minutes left rushed

723
00:34:35.219 --> 00:34:38.579
sort of bullet point, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

724
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:41.519
I don't think the confrontation with the beast is the strongest

725
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:42.059
part of the story.

726
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:42.659
No.

727
00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:43.079
Yeah.

728
00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:45.239
I think the beast looks incredible.

729
00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:45.960
Amazing.

730
00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:46.559
Yeah.

731
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.519
And you get that flash and last week's episode where Zach is

732
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.039
working on the controls, he just flashes up on the screen and it's

733
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:55.559
properly shocking. this horrid face showing up.

734
00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:57.119
It's super scary.

735
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:00.119
It's actually getting to the point where it probably is slightly

736
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:04.500
too scary for Doctor Who, which is a very sort of Hinchcliffe kind

737
00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:07.440
of approach as well, but it's slavering.

738
00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:11.760
And even though its mind's gone, it does things like laughing.

739
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:13.619
It's super menacing.

740
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.579
It's much more menacing than just a sort of dumb shell of a body

741
00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:20.760
with no one inhabiting it, sort of has any right to be.

742
00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:23.880
And the doctor does get to interact with it.

743
00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:30.239
But I just wonder whether having the big confrontation between the

744
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.420
doctor and the devil happen in such a way that the doctor doesn't

745
00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:35.099
even get to speak to him.

746
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.800
It needed a touch of the Gabriel Wolfs there, didn't it?

747
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:38.219
Yeah.

748
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:41.579
Well, I mean, think about that scene in Pyramids of Mars, where

749
00:35:41.579 --> 00:35:45.659
the doctor is in that room that Sutek is in.

750
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:49.980
And, I mean, you know, again, it's one of these things we all saw

751
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:51.179
Sutek when we were 10.

752
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:57.239
We completely accept it, but as has many times been observed

753
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:02.219
Zutech was exiled to that pyramid in Egypt, along with a whole

754
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:06.719
heap of robots and a bomb, and, you know, like all of these

755
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:07.019
things.

756
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.059
You were probably trying to avoid putting in the cell with him if

757
00:36:12.059 --> 00:36:13.920
you really wanted him never to escape.

758
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:19.320
And so here, you know, it's not exactly 100% certain what's going

759
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:19.559
on.

760
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:24.119
I think the doctor says, if it's mind ever escaped, it was

761
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.059
designed, or if the beast ever escaped.

762
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:32.699
The idea was that the jail would immediately fall into the black

763
00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:32.940
hole.

764
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:33.840
Yes, that's right.

765
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:34.619
Yeah.

766
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:39.360
And so, I guess smashing those things makes that happen.

767
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:44.280
Yeah, sort of a slightly magic version of, I guess, there's

768
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:44.940
science going on there.

769
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:48.360
I mean, I don't care about there being magic, particularly in a

770
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:49.139
story about the devil.

771
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:50.820
You know, there's magic all the way through.

772
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.699
I mean, how does the devil broadcast its image onto Zach's

773
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:55.739
hologram monitor?

774
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:57.659
Why do all those sort of weird things happen?

775
00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:03.960
I mean, the magic symbols flying off Toby's skin into the ode is

776
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:06.119
absolutely nothing but magic.

777
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:08.880
You can't say that that's sort of science fiction in any sort of

778
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:09.480
proper sense.

779
00:37:09.539 --> 00:37:11.280
And so that's okay.

780
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:15.659
I just kind of think that it requires just a lot of dialogue to

781
00:37:15.659 --> 00:37:20.400
explain what's going on here and it would be better if we saw it.

782
00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:23.880
I do miss there being a proper confrontation with a villain.

783
00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:25.139
I'd agree with that.

784
00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:34.260
Having criticised that part of it.

785
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.840
It's still extremely entertaining, like, as these things are

786
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:42.659
taking place at the same time and, you know, um, them all escaping

787
00:37:42.659 --> 00:37:45.900
and and then ultimately, of course, the doctor and Rose been

788
00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:50.699
reunited there at the end and and her just, what was the thing

789
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:51.179
that they said?

790
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:51.659
Sorry.

791
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:54.719
I think we beat it. and it's good enough for me, you know?

792
00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:56.579
And who are you?

793
00:37:56.639 --> 00:37:58.380
Well, the stuff of legend, which is, you know.

794
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.320
And you know, I do believe, I could be wrong on this. that that

795
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.039
last shot of the Dr. and Rose might have been the last shot of the

796
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:05.340
season.

797
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:06.780
I think that too.

798
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:09.480
I think I'd heard that as well Yeah, and I think if you look and

799
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:12.179
they're both looking up at sort of the roof and the cameras up

800
00:38:12.179 --> 00:38:13.739
high, I see tears.

801
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:15.960
I see Billy all misty-eyed.

802
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:16.679
I like to believe that.

803
00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:18.599
I think that's a beautifully framed shot.

804
00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:22.739
And it's definitely designed to just be an iconic shot of the 2 of

805
00:38:22.739 --> 00:38:23.820
them in the Tartars.

806
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:27.000
You know, it would make a great still to just sort of show what

807
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:27.900
they were about.

808
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.179
It is them being horrifically smug.

809
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:37.139
And I think possibly it's intentional because at this point

810
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:42.599
everyone knows exactly what sort of fall they're, you know, heading

811
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.699
towards over the next few episodes.

812
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.820
Not the audience, but everyone's sort of involved in the

813
00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:49.440
production we've already shot.

814
00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:51.599
You've ghosts and doomsday.

815
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:55.860
And I think we are kind of setting up this sort of smug hubristic

816
00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:59.519
kind of relationship that they have, which is about to go horribly

817
00:38:59.519 --> 00:38:59.699
wrong.

818
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:03.900
I think it's working on a metal level as well, because unless you

819
00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:07.980
were there, it's easy to undersell just how popular David Tennant

820
00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:10.440
and Billy Piper were with the general public.

821
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:12.000
And I think that's speaking to the audience.

822
00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:14.699
They are the stuff of legends when it comes to the audience.

823
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:16.619
I do love that line.

824
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:17.340
I do love it.

825
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:18.780
And I do like the way it's played.

826
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:23.460
And of course, when speaking of Ida being saved at the end there

827
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:26.639
you know, the original plan was her to come back in a very early

828
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:28.199
version of Planet of the Ude.

829
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:31.380
So they always had their eye on the fact that she might be a

830
00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:34.380
recurring character and you get the line where the doctor says, Ida

831
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:35.039
maybe see you again.

832
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:36.780
He has to say that to many people.

833
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:37.500
Yeah.

834
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:40.260
It's a shame that we didn't get to see her again because she was

835
00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:40.920
such a great character.

836
00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:41.820
She's fantastic.

837
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.820
You know, she was on the Doctor 2 weakest link, which came after

838
00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:45.960
season two.

839
00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:47.579
She was one of the contestants.

840
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:53.639
There was David Tennant, John Barriman, Camille and Noel Clark, and

841
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.559
Jake from Age of Steel, and Claire Rushbook.

842
00:39:58.619 --> 00:39:59.880
Ida was one of the contestants.

843
00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:01.800
So K 9 a contestant?

844
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:02.460
He was.

845
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:04.199
He got voted off first by everyone.

846
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:08.340
I think there might have been a pact amongst the contestants to

847
00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:12.420
allow the core characters who everyone knew to sort of get through

848
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:13.260
to the later rounds.

849
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:16.980
I think maybe too, you know, canines there as a kind of joke, but

850
00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:20.280
he's not really sustainable as a contestant on the weakest link.

851
00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:23.519
And so he's there because, you know, everyone loves canine and

852
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:25.860
stuff, but they just wanted to get on with the people doing the

853
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:26.940
weakest link.

854
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.500
I'm not going to spoil who wins because I live in hope that I can

855
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.860
find video of this and put a link in the show notes, but suffice

856
00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:37.019
it to say I'm very pleased with the outcome.

857
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:42.059
Look, I'm very pleased that I got to chat about this two-parter

858
00:40:42.059 --> 00:40:42.599
with you both.

859
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.860
It's been illuminating and it's a really solid story for me.

860
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.559
It's not my favourite of the season, I think, the points there at

861
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.019
the end, just take the show off it right at the end, but it really

862
00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:56.039
is one of the most underrated, 2 partters, often people talk about

863
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:59.699
other ones, but I think this is, you know, a really fantastic

864
00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:00.239
story.

865
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:03.960
And you know, it's an important story for the series as well, I

866
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:04.199
think.

867
00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:05.760
It does a lot for it.

868
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:08.880
It establishes a lot of what we think of as the aesthetic of the

869
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.360
series. you know, the Ud reoccur, the doctrine kind of as an

870
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.019
astronaut in that orange space suit and the grimy kind of space

871
00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:16.860
aesthetic.

872
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:20.699
They end up revisiting that again and again, right into Peter

873
00:41:20.699 --> 00:41:21.599
Cabaldi's era.

874
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:24.239
So it sets up a lot of that visual imagery.

875
00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:27.300
And we're going into space, really, for the 1st time, alien

876
00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:31.320
planets with alien creatures much more than we have in the 1st 18

877
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:31.739
months.

878
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:34.199
Yeah, and it works because, you know, it's a template that works.

879
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:37.320
It's a resounding success, this story, and so they just keep

880
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:37.920
feeding from it.

881
00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:42.360
I think that it does Hinchcliffe. well.

882
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:47.039
You know, there's a whole sort of cohort of fans roughly our age

883
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:51.539
for whom the Hinchcliffe era is the best era of Doctor Who.

884
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.260
I mean, I'm not one of them, but I like the era a lot.

885
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.260
And I think this improves on the Hinchcliffe era in lots of ways

886
00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:02.039
that we've already talked about by having better characters by

887
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.519
having better relationships between characters, by making us

888
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:07.500
properly care about the people who die.

889
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:15.780
By having something more to say about, you know, the long buried

890
00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:18.840
evil rising from the deep, which is more interesting, I think, than

891
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:20.039
we've normally had.

892
00:42:20.099 --> 00:42:23.519
I think this might have been the kind of story that fans were

893
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:26.760
hoping for when they heard that the series was coming back.

894
00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:30.059
And it's not exactly what you get, as Russell said, you know, dark

895
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:30.659
is easy.

896
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:33.659
It's not easy, not easy to do it this well, but they didn't

897
00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:36.239
realise that the series they got was the series that they would

898
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:36.599
want.

899
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:41.219
They wanted every episode to be dark and grim, would necessarily

900
00:42:41.219 --> 00:42:43.619
work, but on the occasional outing like this.

901
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:44.159
Fantastic.

902
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:56.820
All right, so it's part two of a two part story, which can only

903
00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:58.739
mean it's time for picks of the week.

904
00:42:58.800 --> 00:42:59.760
Todd.

905
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:02.940
Well, I've been debating about this in my head because originally

906
00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:07.079
I was going to go with something like the Philippines classic the

907
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.840
Pyramids of Mars because Gabriel Wolf is in that.

908
00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:13.320
And then we were talking through this episode about all of its

909
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.159
nods to the Planet of Evil and so I thought that would be a great

910
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:19.800
one for people to watch, but I'm not going to go for those

911
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:20.099
people.

912
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.199
I'm going to go with something a bit different.

913
00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:25.380
I'm going to go suggest that you should all go and watch another

914
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:30.420
pit and another creature, the creature from the pit, just to see

915
00:43:30.420 --> 00:43:34.320
how old school Doctor Who does it on a budget with a creature in a

916
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:38.519
pit that the doctor jumps down and hilarity ensures.

917
00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:38.940
Thank you.

918
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:42.360
That was never bad advice to watch creature from the pin.

919
00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:44.340
No, no, you have such a way with words, Todd.

920
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.920
Rarely, Nathan, rarely.

921
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:48.420
We call him the Todd.

922
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.280
So, Peter.

923
00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:54.599
I would like to recommend a new YouTube series called Weird City

924
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:58.199
which is set in A Future World.

925
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:01.619
I've only watched the 1st episode, but I think it's said in the

926
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:04.019
same world where there's people who live above the line and below

927
00:44:04.019 --> 00:44:08.340
the line, sort of in opulence or in more kind of a old style

928
00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:09.960
sissy.

929
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:11.579
And the 1st episode is amazing.

930
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:15.239
It's got an A-list cast with Ed O'Neill from Married with Children

931
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:20.400
and Dylan O'Brien from Teen Wolf, and he's a big movie star as

932
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.579
well, Maze Runner, and LeVar Burton from Star Trek Next

933
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:24.059
Generation.

934
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.480
And it's the 1st time in a while that I've watched something which

935
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:28.380
has surprised me.

936
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:34.079
It's a love story, and I won't go any further than that, but it's

937
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.980
not what you expect, and it's got a great sci-fi backdrop to it, so

938
00:44:37.980 --> 00:44:38.519
I'd recommend it.

939
00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:39.780
Is it a series?

940
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.199
Yes, it's a series, but I think it might be an anthology series, so

941
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:44.760
it's different characters in each episode.

942
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:46.739
So the whole thing's available now.

943
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:49.500
There's certainly more than one episode available, but they might

944
00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:50.280
be staggering it.

945
00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:51.420
Give it a go.

946
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:52.139
You'll enjoy it.

947
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:52.920
Nathan?

948
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.619
I'm going to recommend a TV series as well.

949
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:59.639
There was a long time when Flights of Entirety 1st started where

950
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:02.880
we had to watch, you know, 40 Doctor Who episodes a month or

951
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:06.239
something and I kind of lost touch with television.

952
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:09.840
But I've had the opportunity to watch a lot more things and

953
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:14.159
Netflix is just a giant fire hose of fantastic high quality

954
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:15.000
entertainment.

955
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.199
And I've just watched a thing called Russian Doll.

956
00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:22.260
A lot of people are probably talking about it now.

957
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.800
So it's probably, again, old hat by the time you get to hear this

958
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.239
but it's 8 parts.

959
00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:31.139
They're each about 25 to 30 minutes long.

960
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:33.780
So it's about as long as the invasion.

961
00:45:33.780 --> 00:45:38.400
And it really is extraordinarily well acted.

962
00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:40.800
It looks incredible and it's really surprising.

963
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:42.360
So you've seen it, Peter?

964
00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:45.719
No, but I've had so many recommendations to see it.

965
00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:46.619
People say that it's amazing.

966
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:48.119
Please tell me it makes sense.

967
00:45:48.420 --> 00:45:49.860
No.

968
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:55.619
So it's a woman, she's at her 36th birthday party.

969
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:56.940
We see her at the party.

970
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:02.159
She leaves the party and is hit by a car and dies, and then she

971
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:07.199
wakes up at the party again in a reprise of the very 1st scene of

972
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.739
the episode.

973
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:11.639
And so it's got a sort of groundhog day thing where she keeps

974
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:16.380
repeating a sort of sequence of events that end up somehow with

975
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.719
her dying and ending up back at the party.

976
00:46:18.780 --> 00:46:22.800
And it happens over and over again, but it ends up going in such

977
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:26.880
surprising directions, and it has such interesting things to say

978
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:31.260
about the characters, and it's just a really, really strong piece

979
00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:36.420
of writing, and it's beautifully performed by the lead actor whose

980
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:39.840
name I'll put in the show notes, but she's from Orange is the New

981
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.840
Black, and she's really, really incredibly good.

982
00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:49.019
And it's intriguing and it has a lot to say about sort of trauma

983
00:46:49.019 --> 00:46:52.500
and choice and it just has this incredible atmosphere.

984
00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:55.739
And it's the sort of thing that you could absolutely watch in a

985
00:46:55.739 --> 00:46:58.619
sort of long evening.

986
00:46:58.619 --> 00:47:00.300
And it's really well worth the effort.

987
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:01.260
I really enjoyed it a lot.

988
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.239
Goodness, that does sound like the invasion.

989
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:06.300
I hope 2 episodes are animated.

990
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:09.599
I was going to say it sounds better than Planet of the Daleks

991
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:11.039
because that feels like 8 episodes.

992
00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:15.000
It certainly feels like going through something over and over

993
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:15.300
again.

994
00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:51.480
Well, dear listener, we've smashed up the devil's entire

995
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:55.440
collection of priceless meat vases, so we better head off quickly

996
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:57.119
before he wakes up and comes after us.

997
00:47:57.179 --> 00:48:00.659
We'll be back next week to discuss your favourite Doctor Who

998
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:02.400
episode, Love and Monsters.

999
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:06.300
In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com

1000
00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:09.539
flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE

1001
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:10.619
podcast on Twitter.

1002
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:14.519
You can also find us on our other podcasts, our series 11

1003
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:18.000
flashcast Jody Intetera, and our James Bond and James Bond

1004
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.579
adjacent commentary podcast, Bondfinger.

1005
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:24.719
They're at JodyintoTara.com and bondfinger.com respectively, as

1006
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.420
well as on Twitter, Facebook, and Apple Podcasts.

1007
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:31.679
Until next time, may all your most cherished metaphysical beliefs

1008
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:34.440
turn out to have some basis in objective reality.

1009
00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:36.480
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1010
00:48:36.539 --> 00:48:37.980
Thank you for having me aboard.

1011
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:38.880
See you soon.

1012
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:45.659
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd B. will be Nate for

1013
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:46.980
Bottomley and Peter Griffiths.

1014
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:49.980
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1015
00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:50.699
Orberg.

1016
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.360
This episode, some Vickers was recorded on the 23rd of February

1017
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:57.059
2019 and released on the 12th of May.

1018
00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:05.639
Of course, to those of us who know him personally, The Beast is

1019
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:08.159
not just the rarefication of the entirety of human evil.

1020
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:12.300
He's also a great cook, a talented lounge singer, and a warm and

1021
00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:13.920
generous professional mentor.

1022
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:16.019
Quiz.

1023
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.420
Scooty, floating off into that black hole.

1024
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:19.139
That'd be it.

1025
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.480
Yeah, do you know what that is?

1026
00:49:21.539 --> 00:49:23.159
Yep, we're too.

1027
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.659
So we're just nominating something.

1028
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:27.539
Yeah, so I'll talk you through it and I'll just say, Peter, Todd

1029
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:29.340
you know, what am I going to talk about?

1030
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:32.699
Did we have we already picked David Tennant does a podcast with?

1031
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:34.920
You weren't here.

1032
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:35.760
None of that?

1033
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.900
No, I can't, I don't know.

1034
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:40.199
The only other pics of the week that we did were at the end of Age

1035
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:40.679
of Steel.

1036
00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:43.440
I suspect I probably did.

1037
00:49:43.619 --> 00:49:47.280
It's just something related to this that you want, you want it.

1038
00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:48.239
What did you say?

1039
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:50.099
Podcast with some Nonese.

1040
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:52.980
He did a podcast with some non-entity, someone no one would want

1041
00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:53.280
to watch.

1042
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.139
Ian McCallen.

1043
00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:56.280
No, not him.

1044
00:49:56.579 --> 00:49:58.619
Wasn't it the 3rd one?

1045
00:49:58.679 --> 00:49:59.340
anyway, whatever.

1046
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:00.719
Oh, she was good.

1047
00:50:00.780 --> 00:50:01.679
I loved her.

1048
00:50:01.739 --> 00:50:06.539
At the end of that, I kept imagining the director saying, no, Jody

1049
00:50:06.539 --> 00:50:08.219
love, that's too interesting.

1050
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:11.280
Give it more steel, Anthony.

1051
00:50:11.340 --> 00:50:12.360
More st land.

1052
00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:15.179
Yeah, sports deal.

1053
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.219
Yeah, she's so likeable in it.

1054
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:18.300
She's so likeable.

1055
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.599
Well, I'm going to listen to it because if she's so likeable.

1056
00:50:21.659 --> 00:50:22.199
What going wrong?

1057
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:23.099
Yeah, yeah.

1058
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.199
I think, like, I don't think she's unlikeable.

1059
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.099
Her doctor's not unlikeable, but she's not as interesting as Jodie

1060
00:50:29.099 --> 00:50:30.300
Whitaker herself is.

1061
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:32.099
It's kind of like, just let Jody go.

1062
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.360
It's like David Tennant.

1063
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:35.699
It's kind of like, no, don't make him do the accent.

1064
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:39.059
Just make him be kind of sexy, confident David Tennant.

1065
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:40.380
It's like Peter Capaldi.

1066
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:42.780
Yeah, you know, so hopefully maybe we'll get a change.

1067
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:45.960
I think if your life was being written by Chris Chibnall, you

1068
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:46.860
would be very interesting either.

1069
00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:49.559
No, I guess that'd be...

1070
00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:51.480
So you're right, Todd?

1071
00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:52.619
Can I throw to you first?

1072
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.199
Yes, you can.

1073
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:55.739
Okay.

1074
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:56.460
All right, here goes.