WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:20:43

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Hello and welcome to Flight Your Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who's down there in the darkness in the pipeline.

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Wait.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm a pit of seaweed with hypnotic potential for this episode.

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I thought you'd done something.

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I hope you liked it, yeah. might catch on.

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And that means we are back with the last part of Season 5 and Doctor Who, talking about 2 classic stories, uh, fury from the deep and and the wheel in space.

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So we'll start off by the seaside with here from the deep.

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Bloody seagulls.

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At it again.

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So this is my one, I think.

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But it is.

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And can I just update us on the missing stories status?

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We have 9 recons to go, I think.

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This is the last completely missing story.

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Hooray.

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Doctor Who's history.

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There are little bits and pieces of it still left.

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It's a lot of violent excise, clips, excise from, you know, by the ABC sensors and then rediscovered by Damien.

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It's important to note that Damian Shanahan is obviously a schlock horror collector and that his entire vault at home must be all of the most horrendous thing.

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Exactly.

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He is the too many cooks or tour of...

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Australian television.

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We'll put that in showments, if you have no idea what we're talking about.

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So in our last episode, but one.

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I think I went on and on and on about how much I dislike the massacre.

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Yes, yeah.

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But also the base under siege is an idea.

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And early on this season, you know, I was pretty convinced that what we were essentially getting was, you know, a whole heap of pretty interchangeable concept.

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So you would have intransigent base commander, you would have a base somewhere, you would have people in stupid costumes, you know, menacing the base.

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A helicopter. helicopter, phone.

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The BBC phone machine.

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And so this is one where I had never seen it before, the podcast.

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I don't think I'd listen beyond episode one of the soundtrack.

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So this was quite a new experience and I was completely ready to absolutely hate it.

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You know, it had the foam machine and all of those sorts of things and I just thought it was going to be completely terrible.

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And it does start out like it might be terrible.

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And I guess, I guess the worst thing about it is Robson, where you now have, we've had a series of base commanders, haven't we, from General Cutler to leader claims to...

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So what's different about this one?

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So it's a base under siege, but where is it?

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What's happening with this?

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So we in, we're in the present day, although it looks nothing like the present day.

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We're back on earth, we turn up by the beach.

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There's oil refineries, a lot. strip off again and come and have a swim.

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I didn't have thought that would make up.

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Well, they don't land on the beach. in the western water, which thanks to the war games, we actually have that landing clip and it's a fantastic piece of water.

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So the TARDIS floats.

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What happens in the time, Medler?

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Do they all have to, do they all actually have to go and bungee out to see to get back into the TARDS in that case?

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I don't know, yeah, because the tide came in.

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Yeah, tide came in, but it's still there.

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Still where it was.

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He engaged the time anchor.

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I don't know if you just make that up, didn't you?

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I did.

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Yeah.

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Hey, Stephen Moffat.

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I could write for you.

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I'm going to quote Derek Sherwin a lot today on what he took of the 60s producer and what he says.

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I may not mention exactly what he says about the current era.

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But anyway.

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Because we can't have the explicit tag.

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Well, maybe we can just use acronyms.

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But this is, I really like this story.

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You've come to like it now.

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So it's kind of like an oil rig thing, isn't it?

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They're out on this before the Zygons.

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They're out on this rig thing. and there's something going on.

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They're refining.

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So there's obviously a mutant spooky ooh, don't drill under there because you know what will happen in Inferno.

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It's actually making the whole part where you look a little bit, you know, are you getting the point now?

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Brendan Nathan, at this point of the show that we didn't actually ever need colour, because every story has been, you might say, nausea, but every story has been analysed and promulgated before we even get to the 70s.

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Everything, even the war machines is giving us stuff that Tom and later Peter Davis and all the others are going to do really well.

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I had always thought there was like a massively bright line between the 60s and 70s and it was partly because the 60s are in black and white and partly because we don't have it all.

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And partly because, frankly, I was just not really particularly familiar with it.

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But now, and next year in season six, you can really, really see how this is sort of working towards the Pertuy era.

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And this could have been in season seven, quite honestly.

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It's very like Inferno.

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And a lot of that is Derek Sherman, who's now script editing and taking over from there's some amazing behind the scenes stories of what wasn't working out, which is why you get really interesting ideas with really what ideas is we've about to discover.

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No, I mean, he lasts into 1970, doesn't he?

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absolutely.

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He produces spearheads in space, Derek Sherwin.

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Yeah.

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BBC removed it.

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It's a terrible acting performance.

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He no lines.

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Okay, because he fires a bloke.

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Shockingly bad.

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So, um, we haven't we have another base command.

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He's called Robson, which is only really one letter different from the base commander in the moon base.

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And this base commander, he's going to be intransigent because we need the base commander to kind of delay the resolution, you know, normally the base commander doesn't recognise what's going on until the last possible moment.

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This guy's just horrible though.

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He's like really rude and mean to everyone.

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I don't know, like, you know, what passes for kind of management training in the in this sort of oil company, but he belittles people and yells at them.

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He refuses to slow down the machinery in the event of, you know, any kind of problem.

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He's really just angry and abusive for no reason at all.

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His character makes a very good point about capitalism in business because whenever anyone challenges, Not necessarily him directly, but when Ben Lutchins is talking to Harris and they're talking about, you know, can't we get him removed, get someone else in, the response is always, oh, but he's been on the rig for ages and he brings in results and that's why they haven't got rid of him.

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So, you know, it's a very good point of, you know, people need this gas for power and whatnot.

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So the people getting the gas, they don't really matter just so long as the little black rocks make the television work.

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Yeah, yeah, so he could be like a hideous, abusive halfway.

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And so by the end of episode two, I have to say that I wasn't, I wasn't hopeful.

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Like, I thought that this was essentially going to be what we've been having all year.

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But, I think that I think that I have to concede your point from a little while ago, uh, I think it was 2 episodes ago, or maybe even last episode where you, Brendan, said that although we had the bass under siege template and it was happening over and over again, what mattered was the sort of variations in in the different characters, uh, and even little details of the setting.

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But we had different characters in these base under siege stories.

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And here I think the characters are really terrifically successful.

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So you mentioned Harris, who is just lovely.

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He seems to be just a thoroughly nice man.

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You know, he's very mild manner.

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He contrasts really well with Robson.

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He has a wife, which is like a weird, rare sort of human charge.

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Yeah, we don't often see interpersonal relationships.

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Well, it was a deliberate thing in this one to try and make it more like Russell later did a 1000 years later.

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It's a soap within a show.

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You've got a real couple having real arguments.

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So all the rest of it.

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It's nicely done as a setup for what's going to happen with Victoria.

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Yeah, the whole kind of thing.

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Victoria's probably at her winiest in this one too, isn't she?

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You get the point when she keeps saying, you know, why do we always end up in these awful place of the terrible things?

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Do you think the TARDIS, the whole reason for this series and all these repetitions are based on procedure, there's a pattern.

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Do you think the TARDIS is trying to do her in?

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Yeah, it's trying to get rid of that.

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It really is.

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The thing is, I do find Victoria quite whining this one, but I feel that she earns it in this one because right from the very beginning, you know, she gets she gets knocked out.

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She holds it together.

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She's picking locks with bobby pins.

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She's something that has abilities of, you know, 70s spy girls who are like going to come up and she's, she's signed to him.

129
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She actually always was a little bit science.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, there's all these subtle references that she was getting up to things that her father didn't know about, you know, she knew how to make stink bombs, for instance.

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She knows how she knows how to pick a lot.

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And then when we look back at her 1st story, she gets along really well with all the servants.

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You have this wonderful image when you get to the end of Victoria that actually she's never been really the Victorian nest.

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She puts that she puts that on as a persona.

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But actually, you know, she, instead of going to school, she was running, running hooky with the with the servants.

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Yeah, I mean, I wonder whether she's quite as carefully characterised as that.

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But at least I think is the 1st time properly that you've had the departure of a companion seeded all the way through the story.

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Thankful, yeah.

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So, you know, normally what happens now is if someone's leaving in Doctor Who in modern Doctor Who, the story becomes about that to a large degree, or it's a giant event and then we get it sort of properly dealt with at the end.

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Hitherto, like in the 60s.

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We've just had terrible companion departures where they've just been sort of written out midstory or, you know, sort of wandered off and never seen again.

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And I guess the high point previously has been Ian and Barbra's, which wasn't seated.

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I mean, they were already in the present day in their own time earlier on in that story.

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But, um, it's it's so heartfelt and it's so beautifully done that it really is, and I think, um, uh, the best companion departure today.

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But this would have to be the 2nd best one.

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And it is because the way that her discontent with her way of life with the doctor is seated all the way through.

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There are a few conversations she has also with Jamie and all of that sort of thing about how scary and difficult all of these faces under siege are.

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Yes, and honestly, you'd think someone would have to.

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How about right at the end that you get the whole apotheosis for a reason she's there. scream, not to give anything away.

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The scream is the thing that makes it just the monster.

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It's not really a monstrous, but it's Adora, the Godzilla monster, isn't it?

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This is a Godzilla movie.

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If you look at the plotting and the way the whole thing's set up. bit by bit.

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Just watch any of the 60s Godzillas and you know where this is coming from.

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And especially with what Reginald just mentioned, I do recommend, even if you haven't seen a Godzilla film, watch Godzilla versus Hadora.

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Godzilla versus Sidora is so different from every other Godzilla film because it's got an environmental message.

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Like a lot of the Godzilla films at the time we were getting into the 70s now. just don't have any sort of message at all.

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They did originally.

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Oh, they did.

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They had an anti-war message.

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This was the 1st one with a with an anti-pollution message and people these days really quite love it.

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But at the time the director was told, do not darken the doors of Toho, again, you have ruined Godzilla forever.

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And, you know, this was after the giant lobster monster of the Byra horror from the deep.

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I think recruitment, like Doctor Who, you can't actually ruin the brand. always reboot itself.

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That brings me to the problem I have with fury from the deep.

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And that is that it doesn't feel like a Doctor Who story to me because of course it didn't start as a Doctor Who story.

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It was a radio play that Victor Pemberton called The Slide and it just feels like the Dr. Jamie and Victoria had been inserted into this plot, especially in the 1st 4 episodes.

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They're all doing their own thing away from the main pot.

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They're investigating the problem.

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But, um, the cliffhanger I referenced earlier.

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It's down there in the darkness in the pipeline waiting.

173
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The Dr. Victor Oratoria and Jamie are back in the TARDIS conducting experiments on the sea week, they're nowhere near the plot at that point.

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That's why they go back to the Tartars, they go to, do they?

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they...

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Well, they go to some sort of lab and there's hardest hum is in the background.

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It's hard to tell being that it's reconstruction that I've always envisioned that scene as being in the times.

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I really like that they slide into it sideways.

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That's what a real story should be.

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They shouldn't be the centre of everything.

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They are supposed to be being into.

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In fact, position.

183
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By episode 3 though, I think they should be perfectly entrenched in the whole team, right?

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I think they're always a bit sidelined. actually I actually, I don't know whether it's me, but I watch these whole stories and then kind of forget what Jamie and Victoria were doing in them. of most of the time.

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So Victoria resolves the plot.

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And I think it's a cruel sort of writerly gag about her character.

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She's not actually quite as screamy as she's portrayed here.

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She tries to scream at the drop of the hat. you know, she's screaming at the ventilation shafts and various other things.

189
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She might have read the da Vinci code.

190
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There's a page and a half in that where Dan Brown talks about the narrative he's actually driven by his description of the air conditioning in the gallery.

191
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So you know what?

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This is a really great story compared to popular interest.

193
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Oh, God, I'm now imagining Victoria and Jamie in Fifty Shades of Grey, naked.

194
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Why?

195
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Why?

196
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Why?

197
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Who wears the skirting this couple?

198
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And we haven't talked about oak and quill either.

199
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Like there's a whole...

200
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That's actually the main reasons it's good.

201
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I mean, and they're kind of a such a weird thing, isn't it?

202
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One of them doesn't talk.

203
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The other ones, it's a lot of hearty kind of thing.

204
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Superc.

205
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Supercam.

206
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And they open down and breathe out gas and kill people.

207
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So, Supergat.

208
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Did you know that Pemberton wanted them to have a spinoff series?

209
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He'd actually written, yeah, he'd written a crazy, he'd written to the BBC.

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He thought that they were that interesting.

211
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You've got to remember that.

212
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You've got to remember that Batman was doing really well still on ITV right opposite, so that kind of villain was a cool thing.

213
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:24.779
Can you imagine what that would have been like?

214
00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:26.759
And well, just 3 years later.

215
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:30.120
Ah, Mr. Winston, Mr. Winston.

216
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:31.559
Yeah, actually, items are forever.

217
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:33.299
Yeah, pretty close.

218
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:34.860
Well, they're both sort of gay.

219
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:35.460
Are they a couple?

220
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.299
Well, Mr. Winter, Mr. can do walk up holding hands at one point.

221
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.399
It's hard to say with Mr. Oakman's quilt, but.

222
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:42.659
I don't think it's hard to say.

223
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.500
Of course, as we have discussed before, Victor Pemberton is gay.

224
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:53.879
Oh, okay, Supergate. is partner at the time and for the 40 years following Worlds David Spencer, which made Tomney.

225
00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:59.759
So it's quite possible that these 2 characters were envisioned as a gay couple.

226
00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:02.100
You know, they go everywhere together, they do everything together.

227
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:08.159
But with the parenthetic evil couple, because go couples in 60s, but always. evil.

228
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:08.879
Okay.

229
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:09.659
Oh, my God.

230
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:10.980
So, what's this?

231
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.299
Like Miss Rogen is a kid.

232
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:13.860
Oh, yeah, rogue.

233
00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:15.419
Marvellous film.

234
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.879
Leopold and Loeb, yeah, going back to the 20s.

235
00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:28.320
Oh, in Cold Blood was a huge hit just the year before and the everybody that Truman Capote's groundbreaking number one selling novel about, well, yeah, based on it.

236
00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:29.460
But anyway, hmm.

237
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:31.379
Gays like killing.

238
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.179
That's what I'm getting from this.

239
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:40.500
It's also the odd tension then that, okay, guys are like killing, but they're also the most interesting characters there.

240
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:42.659
The outsiders are always interesting.

241
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.720
Yeah, it's just Endora with a vengeance strategy, really.

242
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.059
That scene, though, I mean, and we should mention that, as we said, none of these episodes exist.

243
00:16:51.120 --> 00:17:06.180
But one of the scenes that was cut from the Australian broadcast on the grounds that it was too scary is the scene where Mrs. Harris gets menaced by Mr. Oak and Mr. Quill, and it is, they're repairing the stove, like it's so ordinary and so down to earth.

244
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:13.079
And it is the sort of thing that pertry will looks like it's going to do over the next few years, but doesn't in fact do.

245
00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:14.940
It's just a woman in her kitchen.

246
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:20.160
The repairmen come in. but then they open their mouths and it's utterly terrifying.

247
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:25.799
Like the scene is really fantastic and they've got terrible English teeth and so they're even more terrifying.

248
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.740
And it's really terrifically good.

249
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:30.480
Can we talk about the weed?

250
00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:32.339
Oh, I knew we'd get to that.

251
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.400
Yes, yes, yes. 60s preferences.

252
00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.400
All of these people are under the control of the weeds, you know.

253
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:42.180
But so Doctor Who does reap the madness exactly.

254
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:56.099
And the other sort of aspects of the weed aren't quite so well realised, and and the script looks like the weed is, you know, going to be sort of puppet tentacle things, but clearly they can't really afford that.

255
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.799
And so they just wheel out the foam machine again.

256
00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:05.519
And they basically feel Mrs. Harris's entire kitchen and the patio and stuff with phone.

257
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:07.619
Yeah, Jamie, that's the close skylight.

258
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:27.599
But they're all talking as if it's sort of full of weed and stuff and it's really the climactic battle where we actually get like weed creatures and they're clearly just some guy in a stupid outfit with tentacle arms flailing his arms around while he's up to his sort of neck in BBC foam.

259
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:31.619
It really is a fabulously surreal thing if you haven't actually seen it.

260
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:38.220
It is in the recons, but if you've only heard the audio, you won't really quite get how amazingly weird it looks.

261
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:48.660
It's one of the ones I really want to have come back because you hear about, you know, people talking about it, who saw it at the time and those that remember say that the camera and the dialogue were completely at odds.

262
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:55.619
So what was going on that you saw was working against how the dialogue is carrying the story and there was tension in that.

263
00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:59.339
Okay, this is memory, but who directed it?

264
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:00.240
Hugh David.

265
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:18.119
Oh, the story goes that he was completely, you know, cranky about the scripts and the actors worked out a hell of a lot of it on in rehearsal, but that's what Derek Schoen was now saying and was having constant for cars with Paddy on the set about, you know, I'm an actor, you're an actor, just rewrite it if you don't like it.

266
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:29.220
It was very much a wreck way of working it through, but by this stage, trout, it was apparently just so tight, and, you know, it was supporting 2 families, and he was, oh, it was quite open.

267
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.039
And he's getting to the end of his 2nd production block.

268
00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:40.140
See, in the next episode of our podcast, they actually started shortening the episodes. was so tired and he just said, I can't, look, you.

269
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:41.099
Yeah, he was threatening to leave.

270
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.859
And, and, um, yeah, they're attractive to things about that.

271
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.460
But yeah, he just didn't have the patience for it anymore, who can blame him 42 epis a year?

272
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:48.839
It was crazy, wasn't it?

273
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:50.940
I mean, that really is extraordinary.

274
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:58.440
That tension sort of adds to something I do like about the story, which is the Lovecraft insolence.

275
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:13.200
Um, you know, and the whole, one of the whole things about Lovecraft is being unable to pin down a specific description of what the sailor saw in the city that night.

276
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:18.599
So, you know, for them to be saying, oh, you know, it's a weed monster and it's 10 foot time, this, that, the other.

277
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:20.940
And then the visuals don't quite match up to that.

278
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:24.299
You do begin to doubt your quality of memory, as you were saying, Richard.

279
00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:27.720
And it's a weird tension for me for this story.

280
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:38.759
It's, yeah, it's good and it's scary, but I don't like it as a Doctor Who story and it's got weird things like that comedy helicopter chase in episode five.

281
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:39.599
So crazy.

282
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:40.980
Sorry, not even a chase.

283
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.880
It's just comedy helicopter flight. the doctor going, oh, I think I can buy a helicopter.

284
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:46.920
Oh, oh, okay.

285
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:49.559
Oh, oh, there are lots of meta. 10 minutes.

286
00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:52.079
Yeah, there were lots of men of stand-ups of themselves.

287
00:20:52.140 --> 00:21:01.259
And it was actually written into the script after Pemberton's thing, but that victorious screams would be the weapon of destruction.

288
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:02.400
No, they actually want to.

289
00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:06.059
And Patty called her old leather lungs because of it.

290
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:10.319
So yeah, she was, but I just like at the end of it, the final episode.

291
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:15.539
They defeat the beastie and instead of doing this big mass destruction just goes back into the water as it should.

292
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.680
Everything returns to normal.

293
00:21:16.740 --> 00:21:24.480
And they have a lovely little sort of, um, to the manor born, good life dinner party in Maggie's horrid kitchen.

294
00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.960
I actually read it.

295
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.759
I'm a huge fan of that, I have to say.

296
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:36.900
Normally Trouton won't stay to say goodbye and will actually speak off with the other characters is still wondering, you know, where he's gone.

297
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:42.119
But here, and it's partly in order to sell Victoria's departure.

298
00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:46.859
We get like a really quite affecting scene between Jamie and Victoria.

299
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:47.640
I pride.

300
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:48.660
It's really nice.

301
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.920
And the 1st time I experienced this story, wasn't listening to the audio.

302
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:53.700
Yeah.

303
00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:55.619
And yeah, I cry.

304
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.579
I was actually sitting on the tube train in London on the way home from work and I cried.

305
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:01.319
I really didn't.

306
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:06.900
And I wondered if that had something to do with the fact that you were on the tube in detail.

307
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.480
That's fairly stressing. anyway isn't it?

308
00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:14.880
So, and then we have the dinner and, you know, Victoria has to make her decision and things and the dinner is lovely.

309
00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:21.059
And they do a great thing with Robson as well, where he sort of gets redeemed a little bit.

310
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.740
He's a little bit more relaxed and a little bit less of a sort of an aggressive idiot.

311
00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:28.740
But he's not completely redeemed.

312
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:33.119
He is still, you know, sort of annoying and dictatorial and things.

313
00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:37.859
So they sort of back away from, you know, making him the good guy.

314
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:42.059
You know, it's a bit leisurely and things that works terrifically well.

315
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:54.119
This, I think, at this point might be my favourite based under siege story from season five, but I may revise that assessment by the end of this podcast.

316
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:58.619
For me, it just it doesn't quite work.

317
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.400
It's oozing with atmosphere and the atmosphere is wonderful.

318
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:04.500
It's foaming with atmosphere.

319
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:13.140
But generally I just find it 6 episodes of people are not terribly interested in shouting at each other and trying to avoid saying the word shaft.

320
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:18.059
Do you know what we've avoided completely is your namesake?

321
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:19.440
No, it was my namesake.

322
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.640
My sister's namesake.

323
00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:23.339
My sister was born Megan Jones, now Megan Regan.

324
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:24.960
Megan Regan Jones.

325
00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:26.279
So she goes by Meg.

326
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:29.640
She's wonderful.

327
00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:32.220
She is the best thing about story.

328
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:40.140
And so she comes in like sort of episode 3 and there's that weird spooky scene between Robson, who has been possessed by the weed.

329
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.759
He's under the influence of the weed.

330
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:50.220
So many people in the 60s. and Mrs. Harrison there, she walks out to sea in a cliffhaniel that really goes nowhere at all.

331
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:55.259
Yes, original parent. before original parent. before Douglas Adams in the mood.

332
00:23:55.380 --> 00:24:04.440
So Megan Jones comes along and she was the grandmother in the Idiot's Lantern, the faceless grandmother.

333
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:06.599
Granny Connolly. much, much later.

334
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:11.519
And she also sentences Blake to exile on Cygnus Alpha.

335
00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:12.119
She does too.

336
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:14.160
Yeah. but she's terrific.

337
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.140
She's really competent and sort of fabulous.

338
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:27.059
And you've had this idiot based commander and suddenly she's replaced by a fantastically competent woman who, you know, is incredulous initially, but fair enough, but yeah, you know, she's not an obstacle.

339
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.299
She's quite sensible and it is so unusual again.

340
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:38.460
We've said this before, but maybe it is becoming normal from here on in that you, it's not just all men and the female companion.

341
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.440
Here we have 2 female guest stars.

342
00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:47.819
What you feed on with this is that it's not the concepts because we've seen them all Romeo and many times over this season.

343
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:54.119
So what you do with them and how you interplay and put the stuff into it and how you how you work out the pieces that work in between.

344
00:24:54.180 --> 00:25:05.700
And for all those reasons that you've said and characters and the way they develop them and just what's going on in the sitcom level, which is just human. underneath it or a parallel to it, works really well with this.

345
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.900
Uh, we didn't mention just parenthetically, no one dies.

346
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.539
All of those people come back and we're all okay.

347
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.559
Even Van Lutchins, who looks like he's going to die horribly, I think, survives.

348
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.579
Yes, yes, yes.

349
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:18.420
He comes back.

350
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:19.799
That's John Abenarius.

351
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:20.940
Yes, it is.

352
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.880
Another thing I've noticed in how we're reviewing this.

353
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.000
We're actually reviewing 3 different versions of the same story.

354
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:31.440
That's the nice thing and the interesting thing about Doctor Who up to mid 70s.

355
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:37.140
I'm probably reviewing, 1st of all, the audios, but before that, the target novels.

356
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.619
The target novel of this was written by Victor Pemberton.

357
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.440
It's a really thicky, I think it was the thickest one that they ever did.

358
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:46.019
Yes, I think they blew out to 160.

359
00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:46.619
They did.

360
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.759
How do you know what?

361
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:48.359
War and peace.

362
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:49.019
They did.

363
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:49.859
And it's pretty good.

364
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.680
I haven't read it since it came out, but I liked it at the time.

365
00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:55.380
I thought this was interesting and the character development is all there.

366
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:59.339
All the things you're talking about, Nathan Jones, are really prevalent in the narrative.

367
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:05.519
And it's a really thin, late 60s piece of politics stuff happening here and it's good.

368
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:06.299
It's a good book.

369
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:09.779
That's my memory of it and that's why I like it.

370
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.480
So she's spectacular.

371
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:19.079
Isn't it lovely that we've got a text that can be viewed on several different media and have a completely different take on it.

372
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.500
How many other how many other programs can offer that?

373
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:23.220
Not many.

374
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:25.859
So is that, is this Hammerton's last one?

375
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.599
It's his only one.

376
00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:29.460
What about pescatons?

377
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.220
Well, his only TV, his only TV one.

378
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:34.500
He really recycles a lot of this, doesn't he?

379
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:39.839
I mean, I think it's the Tom Baker's inexplicable recorder that puts paid to the pescatons, probably.

380
00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:50.220
But this has also recycled itself many times, though, you know, you've got the, again, the zygons. ontological threat.

381
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:57.599
Yeah, I mean, in a way also this year's listen reminded me of a little of this one because you don't really find out what the monster was.

382
00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:03.420
And I know I know the point of listen is meant to be. monsters you were just imagining it. what was under the blanket?

383
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.000
Ugly and ugly child.

384
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:14.220
Children usually give it away after a while, I say, that went on far too long to me, just unless it's a very sin switch.

385
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:15.720
Yeah, exactly.

386
00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:31.259
So now for the first time in quite a while, we're back off interspace onto a wheel of some kind.

387
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:32.279
The hubcap inspect.

388
00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:33.299
Oh, good space.

389
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.880
The hubcap in space is mine. mine.

390
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:37.019
Oh, mine.

391
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.819
And Nathan, I believe you've got a status report on the functionality of the wheel.

392
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:42.480
Okay.

393
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:51.720
So we are, we have episodes 3 and 6 of this. and I watch the loose cannon reconstructions and they're spectacularly good.

394
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:52.859
They are wonderful.

395
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.119
They do a really good job.

396
00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:00.059
So there's a sort of stupid robot in episode one and they animate that just splendidly well.

397
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:05.700
They have CG cybermen and they have they have CG astronauts.

398
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:07.500
And CG Spears.

399
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:08.220
Yeah, yeah.

400
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.039
So it's really, it's really quite fun to watch.

401
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:22.200
And so this is, you know, our last story, but one with sort of substantial amounts, missing episodes.

402
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:25.920
So everything pretty much exists next year.

403
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:36.240
They've animated to episodes of the invasion, which we'll talk about in our next episode, and we've got space pirates, which is sort of more or less completely missing.

404
00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:40.799
But the horrors of season 4 with its no complete stories at all.

405
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:42.660
They're long behind us now.

406
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.500
Indeed.

407
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:48.180
I should just mention the animator of these sequences.

408
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.920
Her name is is Skinner.

409
00:28:49.980 --> 00:29:03.779
And as well as animating these sequences, she has animated the special web of fear trailer, the one with the doctor talking to the camera and saying, you know, if mommy and daddy get scared, it's okay for you to hold their hand.

410
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:10.859
And she animated a trailer of the wheel in space in the style of the 1st alien film.

411
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.400
So we'll put up links for both of those because she does fantastic work.

412
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:17.339
And especially the server robot in F1.

413
00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:24.779
And I do want to focus on E1 just for now because everyone is Pure David Whittaker.

414
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.660
It's the isolationism of the edge of destruction.

415
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.299
The TARD is trying to communicate with the doctor and Jamie.

416
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.440
It's hard as being this mental force, having its own mentor force.

417
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.000
That's very David Whittaker.

418
00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:40.500
They find a food machine that puts out things in little silver cubes, that's David Whitaker.

419
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:44.279
It's the doctor and Jamie wandering about the ship just by themselves for 20 minutes.

420
00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:46.980
You haven't mentioned mercury in the fluid list.

421
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.299
Oh, mercury in the fluid.

422
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:48.900
Of course.

423
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:50.640
Pure donate, winter.

424
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.380
And also just sort of playing for time.

425
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:54.359
David Whittaker.

426
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:55.799
It takes us a long while.

427
00:29:55.859 --> 00:29:59.039
We expect an episode one cliffhanger with Cybermen in it.

428
00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:00.660
Yes, but don't get that.

429
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:07.920
Well, I do I do have to wonder if the audience will read. was a side man story because the sidemen don't turn up until the end of episode two.

430
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:11.220
And even then, sort of only in silhouette when you see a hand, but that sort of thing.

431
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:26.339
What I found very interesting rewatching at one for the podcast was I thought, oh, you know, this is clearly an influence of 2001, a space Odyssey, but then I discovered that episode one was broadcast a week before a space Odyssey was released in the UK.

432
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:39.720
And that shot of the of the Pan Am shuttle linking up with the Hilton Space Station was really iconic at the time and everyone was now obsessed with slow waltzing hardware. space.

433
00:30:39.779 --> 00:30:52.980
So you get this whole, but at the same time you get the frisson or you get the duality of it being something that was feared because it was already seen as information overload back then, even before they had apps and me pods and myself devices.

434
00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:02.940
And people were genuinely concerned, you read the columns in the press at the time of how much their children were going to be able to cope with this kind of thing.

435
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.480
The robots were going to take their jobs and we're all going to have to.

436
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:12.539
It's not necessarily, you know, an optimistic or utopian view that they're all wearing groovy or part outfits.

437
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.720
Most of them get killed, especially if you're a bit slow and fat in this.

438
00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:17.039
You don't tend to survive very long.

439
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.940
Well, that was the other thing I thought was an obvious influence.

440
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.019
Star Trek.

441
00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:26.579
But I then discovered Star Trek in the UK phrase. right.

442
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:27.720
It's not trick, yeah.

443
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:29.519
I did have to wonder though.

444
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:36.960
Because David Whittaker, I believe, as well as freelancing, was occasionally a Starfry for the BBC.

445
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:42.119
I do have to wonder if he maybe saw some screeners of some, but this is really not about Trek.

446
00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:44.940
Trek was actually not original in itself.

447
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:55.799
It stole a lot from Rompotrui Orion. from the Peter Thomas school, beautiful Bavarian TV, the go to 60s TV thing, 6465.

448
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.059
And it was also a lot more conquest space, the 1950 film.

449
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.319
This is Conquest in Space, a Willie Leigh, LEY book that came up then.

450
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:10.680
It's pretty much meant to event the same thing, but without, like, things but the same kind of stuff.

451
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:15.180
And there's this whole thing with the progression and the mark, the long march forward.

452
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:25.200
And any villain is a commie and the whole thing of the long march forward is, yeah, we're getting that, you know, the future is not altogether shiny and bright and new. that people weren't that silly.

453
00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:30.240
But it does, I mean, it does also just copy lots of previous Doctor Who.

454
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:48.599
So if you think about the moon base, the moon base has, or even the 10th planet, actually, both of those have like a multicultural crew, you know, from all sorts of different places and this has that. an intransigent base commander and we've got that again in Jarvis Bennett.

455
00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:56.039
But I think the thing that makes this stand out is that the characters are just really good and really interesting. really well written.

456
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:59.339
And the other thing that makes it stand out is Gemma Corwin.

457
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:04.200
Well, Gemma Corwin, Tanya learn of, and we'll come back to her...

458
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:05.640
The Zoe Heron...

459
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.440
Duggan is great.

460
00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:08.640
Rico is great.

461
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:09.599
Leo is great.

462
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:10.740
Like all of those characters.

463
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:20.220
This is very much like Anderson's UFO, which wasn't out yet, but the supporting cast, Anne Riddler, who plays Gemma Corman, is one of my favourite actresses of this period.

464
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:27.420
She was in a show placed on a rumour golden book called The Didacoy that came out in the 70s and she plays the same kind of part several times over in a very short career.

465
00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:29.400
And Riddler plays these.

466
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.079
And Whitaker loves doing this.

467
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:42.000
He throws the doctor in almost immediately with a mature and up intelligent and independent, highly motivated woman and they start flirting almost immediately.

468
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.099
Oh, very peach.

469
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.700
Yeah, yeah.

470
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.720
It's just really, really don't like that she doesn't make it to the end.

471
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:56.339
It seems that if you've got the grooviest Chelsea boots and you look really good in the outfit, you survive in this story.

472
00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:03.299
If you've been on the putty side, who's the bloke who ends up doing a really ill-advised rumber with a cybermats and dies about it?

473
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:04.859
Yeah, Dugan doesn't make it.

474
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:06.960
Yeah, you see, Duck.

475
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:10.199
And he stands up and he doesn't look as good in the suit. die.

476
00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:19.440
But I think I'm happy to report, Richard, that Andrew lived to the live to the very, very experienced age of 89 years.

477
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:20.579
Oh, I'm so glad.

478
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:26.699
But she just has such manifest glory and understated warmth and charm and intelligence in everything I've seen her do.

479
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:31.199
Guest cast always get killed in Doctor Who and I actually, the wrong ones.

480
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:40.920
Yeah, no, but I think here having a really sympathetic, really likeable character get killed up to the stakes, it upsets the doctor, you know, like he's visibly shaken by it.

481
00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:55.440
But couldn't we have had him go off with the woman who's obviously flirting with and haven't really interesting you with a mature woman like Gemma Corwin and Zoe can just stay there being kind of, you know, Romeo, proto-companion, tippy type.

482
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:56.639
I love Wendy Paprio.

483
00:34:56.699 --> 00:34:58.980
I really love it, but I actually really like Zoe.

484
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:02.820
I mean, Zoe is a very high concept character when she's introduced.

485
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.019
She's a pure SFI concept. back to Heinland now, yeah.

486
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:11.099
They do backpedal from that and she doesn't end up being like that really particularly.

487
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:13.079
So she's never a screamer though, is she?

488
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:13.559
No.

489
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.260
She'll have a yell when she falls down at my shark.

490
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.139
A couple of screens, but she is not a screener.

491
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:19.619
No.

492
00:35:19.619 --> 00:35:20.099
Yeah.

493
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.400
No, in fact, she's a deliberate contrast with Victoria.

494
00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:25.079
So she's from the future instead of the past.

495
00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:29.460
She's, uh, because you might know you love that when they're on contranged.

496
00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:34.440
Well, yeah, no, I just find that sort of slightly irritating, but I think that I actually think that Zoe works really well.

497
00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:39.840
Because she's sort of perky and healthy and kind of likeable.

498
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:51.000
And although, although, you know, she's been brainwashed by the parapsychology unit and she has a head full of facts and she's like a human computer and stuff and everyone's kind of slightly rude to her for that reason.

499
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:52.679
And she's like, oh, aren't they?

500
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:53.699
There's a nice little fish on.

501
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.960
She's the Actually, you're right.

502
00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:58.079
She's the fan girl in the way that Susan was originally the fan girl.

503
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:04.199
She's too bright for the class and the kids will pick on it because she's too, and that's where all the smart kids at home who are watching this.

504
00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:04.920
And you're right.

505
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:08.699
I like that it's a female character because there were fang girls in the 60s.

506
00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:10.139
We just didn't have names for ourselves.

507
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:15.179
And she's sitting there being a little fan and saying, I read science fiction and I'm the only one in the universe who does it.

508
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:20.340
Well, in fact, she expresses dissatisfaction and says that she doesn't want to be emotionless.

509
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:25.440
And of course, that works quite well thematically, doesn't it, with the idea that there are Spider-Man.

510
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:27.840
You know, the emotional cybermen are lurking outside.

511
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:34.800
And on the other hand, you've got the incredibly emotional, but pretending he's logical jobs.

512
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:36.539
Now, this is crazy.

513
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.280
So we're in the 10th planet.

514
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:45.840
We had the cybermen contrasted with General Cutler, who was massively emotional, and we put everyone's lives.

515
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:46.380
Yeah, yeah.

516
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:47.039
Here.

517
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:52.139
Santa suggests that maybe it's a sort of Whittakercarian kind of joke.

518
00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:55.739
The base commander is just literally crazy.

519
00:36:55.800 --> 00:37:00.659
Like he's intransigent, not because he can't accept reality or anything, but just because he's just certified.

520
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.420
Yes, he's actually completely paranoid.

521
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:07.559
He has a lot of symptoms of something called borderline personality disorder.

522
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:08.940
That's Robson.

523
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:09.960
He had that in spades.

524
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:16.199
Well, what I personality disorder, um, one of the things there is you are paranoid, you think that everything is out to get you.

525
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.079
And you personally.

526
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:20.280
It can't affect anyone else.

527
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:21.119
It's just affecting you.

528
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:33.300
So whenever something presents itself that can't be explained, Jarvis takes it very, very personally, like, no, I can't I can't be serious right now, therefore it's not happening.

529
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:37.440
And there's just this there's this wonderful rising panic about him.

530
00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:53.519
And I don't know, I do think, oh, you know, we've got another We've got another mad, inflexible leader, but I think where this succeeds where, say, General Cutler and Ted Planets didn't succeed as well, is actually in the crew because as you said, they're a multinational crew.

531
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:58.079
And by multinational, yeah, pretty much they're still all coming from Europe and the colonies.

532
00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:02.880
But at the same time, the grew is roughly half men and half women.

533
00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:14.039
And with the exception of Java's and possibly Bill Duggan, there are all these bright young things whose eyes are open to new ideas, whereas Java's Bennett is the old guard.

534
00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:20.519
He's like, no, I will run this station, how I've always run this station because it's been working perfectly well for 50 years and why should I change it now?

535
00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:27.420
Whereas... very comfortable position with my arse really firmly pressed into this rather cutting the leather red.

536
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.380
I'm just...

537
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.719
No, I just think he's an idiot.

538
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.820
Like, he's an idiot.

539
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.079
Yeah, and that's actually kind of boring.

540
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.000
Why do we still get 2D?

541
00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:37.679
Oh, you know, it's K mutiny.

542
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:40.380
It's, I don't know, all this stuff right back too.

543
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.079
Maybe Dick, your commanders, and lots of folks.

544
00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:46.139
Don't forget the mums and dads watching us, all the dads and especially.

545
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:50.760
A lot of them are in the war at least in that effort when they were young lads.

546
00:38:50.940 --> 00:39:01.559
They all had controllers and commanders like this, they all had, you know, subalterns like this, and they remember that most things go wrong because of bad decisions by people in leadership.

547
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:05.519
So it's just something that people took for granted as a dumbass thing.

548
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:23.519
For me, it's a very political point because when I used to be a teacher in the UK, One of the things that greatly frustrated me was the education minister there at the time kept coming out and saying things like, well, you know, the system's not working and it, you know, it can't possibly be working because this is happening and I don't like what's happening here.

549
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:25.320
And it just always amazed me.

550
00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:28.679
It's not just him, but education medicine's the world over, say.

551
00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:29.880
The system isn't working.

552
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:34.079
The system that educated me to the point where I could become a government minister isn't working.

553
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:35.760
Yeah, because he went too late.

554
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:36.360
Yeah.

555
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:49.380
So, you know, Jarvis is like, we must maintain the system the way I maintained it, despite the fact there's been all these other advances and there's all these new people coming through, but they can't possibly have any good ideas. this year wouldn't you?

556
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:54.539
Well, it's a timeless, really, yeah, conservative in its politics, yeah.

557
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.119
Good leaders, i.e. Gemma Cohen, who is in a position of power in the station.

558
00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:06.539
Don't try to shoe horn facts to fit their worldview.

559
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:12.659
She goes, she, for instance, accepts, okay, there are these 2 people who are obviously lying.

560
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:18.059
She says, I believe Jamie was lying, but reluctantly, and she lifts all the things he's lying about.

561
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:21.119
And she's like, I don't think he's dangerous, but there's some reason that he's lying.

562
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:25.079
Whereas Jarvis immediately goes, right, well, they must be so always, and they must be here to sabotage us.

563
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:26.760
And Jenna's like, no, I don't think that's it.

564
00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:31.380
But that's his that's the only thing that fixes wellview rather than actually looking at what's going on around him.

565
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:37.559
And I think that's why the characters in this is so successful. because they've each got their own worldview and it informs their actions.

566
00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:43.739
I also think the pacing of it helps because you've got episode one, which is just, you know, 20 minutes of faffing about, as we said.

567
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:51.420
But then the doctor has a lovely holiday in episode 2 while he's unconscious and Jamie gets introduced to the bass characters and they have to carry it.

568
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:54.599
And so, yeah, Fraser carries the episode really well on his own.

569
00:40:54.659 --> 00:41:01.500
But it's not really on his own because you have this strong ensemble of characters that all get introduced.

570
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:04.559
And so by the time Gemma dies, we know her really well.

571
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:14.280
By the time Bill Duggan dies, we know him, he collects plants, everyone thinks he's slightly crazy, you know, like I think all of that stuff is terrifically effective.

572
00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:18.960
The worst person, though, and the most embarrassing moment is Chang.

573
00:41:19.019 --> 00:41:20.340
You said everyone was from Europe.

574
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.920
And there's a man called Chang.

575
00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:33.659
There's a man called Peter Ladd, who plays Chang, and like the accent is just absolutely like, oh, clenchingly, you know, embarrassing.

576
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:37.199
I think just, I think that's why I'd forgotten him. so bad.

577
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:41.699
It's so unbelievably awful, but fortunately he's killed quite quickly.

578
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.239
So we don't have to put up with him for very, very long.

579
00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:51.780
Yeah, I mean, Donald Sumpter being browned up to kind of look a bit Mediterranean wasn't that great to start with. but yeah.

580
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:52.440
Who was that?

581
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:53.219
Rico.

582
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:53.820
Rico.

583
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:54.239
Rico.

584
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:56.159
But Rico is such a sweet character.

585
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:59.639
Well, I mean, it helps that he is not played as a stereotype.

586
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:04.199
No, no, he's not like Tito, whatever his name. in the 10th part of the 10th.

587
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:05.880
I'm not telling you.

588
00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:07.739
No, that was pretty bad.

589
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.179
He's lovely.

590
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:21.059
And the other thing we haven't mentioned is, is Leo and Tanya have this sort of growing romance, which there are no scenes about the romance, but just gradually, oh, maybe. just all in the performance.

591
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:42.179
And when the actor's performance, by the end of it, he's sort of they're draped all over each other and things, but it's really warm and a little bit grown up in the sense that, you know, it's not just a whole bunch of men, you know, it's people with with relationships, like we saw in theory from the deep with Maggie and Mr. Harris, we must have a 1st name, but I don't know what it is.

592
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.639
Did we get any arrangement power of the dark?

593
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:49.980
with the old... with John Shanway and...

594
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:53.400
Yeah, well, I think Wisha tries to flesh out his characters.

595
00:42:53.460 --> 00:43:00.840
But I'm trying to think because Sherman was also really determined to get this show, get the ratings back and actually get this to be a popular thing again.

596
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:03.119
In Paradox, we also had Dr. Fane.

597
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:10.739
Because I was going to say the thing with generally what she's painted as villainous because she uses her feminine wiles. to lure men into stupid plans.

598
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:18.119
But Dr. Fenn is a far more balanced character, she's still involved with the rebels, but she has a conscience about it.

599
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.739
And I did that.

600
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.679
Certainly, Whittaker has always been a master of characterisation.

601
00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:26.820
Korea, who we talked about last episode.

602
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.039
Well, all of those characters.

603
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:31.619
We should just have a whole podcast for Korea.

604
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.460
Let's just talk about it means the world, yeah.

605
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.280
And that's the good stuff.

606
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:39.659
Can we talk about the same?

607
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:41.039
I can see.

608
00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:43.679
I can see you segueing towards the cyber plan.

609
00:43:43.739 --> 00:43:54.780
So the cybermen, whether I really dislike wheel in space because David Whittaker just suddenly has some contempt for astrophysical concepts.

610
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:59.460
Or if I really love it because it very aggressively goes, who needs science?

611
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:00.239
Screw that.

612
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:01.559
We're going to have fun.

613
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:07.260
We're going to blow up a star several light years away and it's going to affect us instantly because screw you, that's why.

614
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:08.760
Yeah, no, it's crazy.

615
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:13.079
So the cybermen here, they don't actually get much dialogue and they aren't very many or something.

616
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.000
And, you know, we've had so many.

617
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.639
There's loads of them when they do their stagewalk into the mirror.

618
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:20.039
But they don't talk to us.

619
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:23.400
It's not like they take over the base and start moralising at us. is good.

620
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:23.880
Yeah.

621
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:27.119
So they lurk and they're sort of scary.

622
00:44:27.179 --> 00:44:31.260
And they're under the control of the kind of light bulb in an evening brock, aren't they?

623
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:32.699
The side of the controller.

624
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:34.920
So I look at the cyber planner, really?

625
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:35.519
Is that it?

626
00:44:35.579 --> 00:44:35.940
Yeah.

627
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.679
Real name Pam Pooby.

628
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:39.300
Yes.

629
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:40.980
Yeah, so I can see that happening.

630
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.460
It's a very bizarre looking thing and there just seems to be one shot of it.

631
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:45.840
Oh, it's a recon.

632
00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:48.719
That's why I think that I'm sure it was directed very thrillingly.

633
00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:49.920
Yes, yes, yeah.

634
00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:54.480
As thrillingly as you can direct a light bald inside a metal frame.

635
00:44:54.539 --> 00:45:00.239
Well, you know, it's it's an interesting idea because earlier this year we had the cyber controller for the 1st time.

636
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:03.360
So that was a new concept. in tumour decipherment.

637
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.239
Oh, do you mean Michael Kilgara with me?

638
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:07.380
Transparent brain.

639
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.159
Yes, that's right.

640
00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:15.480
And, you know, obviously at that point, they couldn't bring him back because they destroyed him and he never, ever, ever comes back again.

641
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:16.500
1985.

642
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.340
So instead, we have this new idea of the cyber planner.

643
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:25.260
It's also a total new design for the size of that. new helmets, new suits.

644
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:27.360
They don't have the tape around there now.

645
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:30.719
They don't have and they've got the little sort of tear ducts.

646
00:45:30.780 --> 00:45:34.739
Well, the teardrop, which is, you know, was actually one thing that Russell insisted.

647
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:40.079
He said, look, you know, design the side, man, how you want, but they must have the teardrop.

648
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:46.019
And in fact, I think it is the wheeling space Simon because they're going to get stupidly redesigned for the invasion.

649
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.559
Yeah, we'll talk more about that next time.

650
00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:54.119
But this is the version of the side amendment is familiar to us now.

651
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:58.079
This is what the sidemen essentially look like in modern Doctor Who.

652
00:45:58.139 --> 00:46:07.739
And the 2nd redesign, starting with nightmare and silver, most recently seen in dark water death in heaven, is based heavily on this wheel in space, very slick.

653
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.679
So it's straight up and down, wetsuit.

654
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:18.480
Instead of the big hoses they had in the moon base and 2 of the site, then it's now this little hydraulic tubes.

655
00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:18.960
Yeah.

656
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.000
But I mean, even the even Russell's ones.

657
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:23.159
And rustling is good that the teardrop be there.

658
00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:31.320
And that was because he wanted to emphasise that they were human beings that had been sort of brutally robbed of their emotions and things.

659
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:33.539
So that teardrop thing stays.

660
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.119
But their voices are almost incomprehensible.

661
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:43.260
I think they have like 2 different kinds of voices depending on whether they're on film or on videotape. none of that's very very good.

662
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.019
And so their plan is to blow up stars.

663
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:50.159
Many, many light years away to divert meteorites on...

664
00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:52.500
In fact, their plan is just crazy, isn't it?

665
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:58.019
So they send CyberMat Suite, the banalium, which they need for the laser.

666
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:03.420
And then they then they bring the silver carrier there and put banalium on it.

667
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.960
Like I just, like, it's just...

668
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.360
So the sidemen can attack them in mind control.

669
00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:15.539
The side and then hide in the in the crates with banalium, which get brought across from the silver carrier.

670
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:24.360
The whole thing is just mental and then they're diverting asteroids with explosions that wouldn't actually be visible from Earth for several years.

671
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:25.500
You know I mean?

672
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.239
Yeah, you can get your calculator.

673
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:29.099
Hang on, 25,000 light years away.

674
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:30.059
Messio 13.

675
00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:32.579
Yeah, yeah. 25,000, 30,000 light years away.

676
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:34.860
She's got the bestest telescope.

677
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.159
This is Carl and Zala, having it out and it exploded.

678
00:47:38.219 --> 00:47:41.639
And I think we were saying he's put that light out.

679
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:45.900
Yeah, yeah, so, you know, it's crazy.

680
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:52.500
And, you know, then on top of that, the actual reason they're doing or since to destroy W3 or Cripple W3.

681
00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:57.840
So that way they can go down to Earth and take a drink, plunder it for its mineral wealth.

682
00:47:57.900 --> 00:47:58.500
W3.

683
00:47:58.679 --> 00:47:59.880
The space wheel.

684
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:01.500
It's wheel three.

685
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:03.420
It's the 3rd wheel of I believe six.

686
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:05.639
So she called us a 5th wheel.

687
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:06.539
That would have been better.

688
00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:11.639
But that just reminds me of 3W from Death in Heaven.

689
00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:12.360
Is that coincidence?

690
00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:14.039
Possibly.

691
00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:16.679
I hadn't thought of that because...

692
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.320
Sure, we sort of don't know what the 3W mentioned, definitely.

693
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:21.059
Yes, you need 3 words.

694
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:22.199
No, no.

695
00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:23.639
You've seen it.

696
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:24.719
It's been nice seeing the whole scene.

697
00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:26.039
What about these people out here?

698
00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:27.840
They've all seen it.

699
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:28.980
It's been on television.

700
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:29.940
By the time we're recording.

701
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.059
Don't cremate me.

702
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.940
Oh, yeah, the 3 words I don't create me.

703
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:40.440
And yeah, I mean, that all turns out to be Bananas Scheme by Mary Poppins.

704
00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:44.579
But, uh, Space Man, another banana, another banana.

705
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:45.239
Yeah.

706
00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:46.500
But yeah, it's just...

707
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:51.780
It's a Rube Goldberg machine. of the scheme from the cyber bed.

708
00:48:51.840 --> 00:49:01.860
You know, all these little bits have to work when, really, all they had to do was go onto the window with their guns and kill a bunch of people.

709
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:03.900
Even if they wanted to do all the other stuff.

710
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:07.980
They didn't need to explode the star and send the meteors in.

711
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:15.119
All they needed to do was go, okay, we'll set the sidements over, eat the banalion, then we'll ram the silver carrier into the space station.

712
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:16.559
It's still just stupid.

713
00:49:16.619 --> 00:49:19.019
It's still stupid, but at least that way it's less stupid.

714
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:20.639
And that's the thing.

715
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:27.840
You've got all this great characterisation, but you've got this great characterisation, citing an utterly bizarre plot. is bonkers, isn't it?

716
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:30.840
But I think it's still, I think it still works. you know what I mean?

717
00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:34.980
I think it's still really entertaining and the characters are just great and all of that.

718
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:40.320
I don't worry, you know, like I don't mind too much about how silly the applaud is really.

719
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:44.340
I mean, if you're worried about that, then you probably really want to watch another show.

720
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.360
Yeah.

721
00:49:45.420 --> 00:49:47.460
Yeah, I mean, it is highly enjoyable.

722
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:50.940
And I like it far more than I like Fury from the Deep because it is enjoyable.

723
00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:55.739
Um, I just feel it's just strange.

724
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.059
It could have been it could have been better.

725
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:02.940
I understand why people don't like this story.

726
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:13.139
But at the same time, I am someone who will always take a thumb Doctor Who story with a stupid plot over a Doctor Who story with a good plot, but no charm.

727
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:13.619
Yeah.

728
00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:15.960
Yeah, that's weird.

729
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:17.219
Lots of charm.

730
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:18.780
Can I mention the massacre at this point?

731
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:19.920
No, it's human must.

732
00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:24.900
Yeah, well, you see, that's a good Doctor Who story with Charm.

733
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:29.880
Richard, you were saying... thinking of the listener at this point.

734
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.500
It's got expression, you know, it's got it's got character.

735
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:38.159
What I say, don't read the title novel because it was sort of a later thing.

736
00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:39.719
I don't think it really held up that well.

737
00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:50.400
It was one of those ones done at a rush at the time of the 80s when they were selling the show to the US and it was kind of, you know, it's not done with the density and purpose that some of the other target models were done.

738
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:51.659
Do we know who wrote it?

739
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:54.239
I think it was...

740
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:55.019
Yeah, it was Terrence.

741
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:56.460
Yeah, I don't remember a thing that looked great.

742
00:50:56.519 --> 00:50:58.019
Yeah, so it was written by Uncle Terence.

743
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:00.000
Yeah, but it was one of these ones done in a rush.

744
00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:01.380
It wasn't, it's nothing, it's not bad.

745
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:02.579
It just doesn't expand the story.

746
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:09.059
Only 23,000 copies of the paperbook edition was circulated reportedly due to stocks being destroyed in a warehouse.

747
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:10.860
Oh, so I'm doing quite well with my issue.

748
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:13.079
Is actually quite a rare book.

749
00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:13.800
Hurrah.

750
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:15.659
You know, so you can get...

751
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.980
You can get 10 bucks for it instead of 2 on...

752
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:26.760
I like the bit where the dogs have proposed us to give Jarvis Bennett, ECT.

753
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:27.599
Yeah.

754
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:30.719
Yeah, we haven't mentioned the sexualist.

755
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:32.219
Sexual...

756
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:35.820
Yeah, he was looking at Dr. Coleman when he said that.

757
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:45.599
Something I found about the servo robot, and specifically the animation done by his Skinner, it reminded me of Wally.

758
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:50.039
And not Wally in particular, the robot Wally from the film Wally.

759
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:58.980
The gopher robots of the ship have the little shoulder lights like the servo robot does and have the sort of awkward notion.

760
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:12.119
So I don't know if Pixar saw a picture of the servo robot or if his Skinner went, oh, I like Wally. bring some of that into there, but I do, I love any sort of intertextuality like that, even if it is just imagined.

761
00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:19.739
So, you know, folks, out there, if you like Wally, you will love is Skinner's animation of the servo robot.

762
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:21.179
It is very cool Yeah.

763
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:25.679
She's even got a little blemish on the back of its head where there's a blemish on the original prop.

764
00:52:25.739 --> 00:52:27.059
It's so well done.

765
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:32.699
Wendy Patbury was offered this role for a year or a film role.

766
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:42.480
Um, and she took this one because apparently Paddy had been a childhood hero of hers and the idea of working with him for a whole year was really exciting, probably a bit more money.

767
00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:48.300
The film would have been with Maggie Smith and it was the pride of Miss Jean Brody.

768
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.440
She just turned 20.

769
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:50.820
She was going to be one of the students.

770
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.679
Can you imagine her doing the accent?

771
00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:54.719
Are you doing it right now?

772
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:00.900
Well, she's just so charming from going to work with this, isn't she?

773
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.239
I know we're so positive about everything.

774
00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:22.739
And like I said, she was horrid and drunk all the time. just a wheelbarrow for coke and he used to slide it down the stoop down the white studio for the only reason the 1st episode of Mind Robbery is painted white is that it covers up all the fricking powder all the... when he's flaring mono nostril because she burnt the rest of her face off.

775
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:24.900
Actually, she's really sweet.

776
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:26.699
So I can't say any of that.

777
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:27.719
She's really lovely.

778
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:32.219
It's that right.

779
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:37.380
I just want, I've just, you know, put a bit of chios hero into this.

780
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.420
Yeah, actually everyone is bloody lovely.

781
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:40.800
Yeah, it makes you sick, doesn't it?

782
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:42.900
too much more icing off the Christmas cake.

783
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:45.539
But I mean, there's no one in this I dislike.

784
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.519
The cast is fantastic in this.

785
00:53:47.579 --> 00:53:47.760
Yeah.

786
00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:50.940
Do you think she's an improvement over over Victoria?

787
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:51.480
Not at all.

788
00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:53.340
I think she's just fresh and new and different.

789
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:54.420
I say nothing wrong.

790
00:53:54.480 --> 00:54:01.559
We should actually say cheers to Victoria and to Debbie and say, look, I actually don't think she's as bad as everybody likes to maintain.

791
00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:03.360
Repetition, repetition.

792
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:05.699
Lazy, lazy producers, lazy script editors.

793
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:16.800
She gets a great new rush when Derek Sherman comes in and she actually sits there and says, I've been whining all this year because it's been bloody awful and we keep getting dumped into the same awful situation.

794
00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:18.179
I'm only a little girl.

795
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:21.599
Still a little girl now, and it's nothing great's happening.

796
00:54:21.659 --> 00:54:25.559
And I'm like her to say, and you did this to your granddaughter and you're doing it to me and you know what?

797
00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:26.519
You can bugger off.

798
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:28.739
It's a great way to end it.

799
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:30.900
Yeah, she does act really well in that.

800
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:31.800
She's fine.

801
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:33.960
There's nothing wrong with Debbie's performances at all.

802
00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:39.780
She's a good little actress in all of these shows and she's been given a bad truth by fandom, you know, in the intervening years.

803
00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:43.920
And something that I think really becomes clear, in theory from the deep.

804
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:51.000
Well, we're sort of saying goodbye to Victoria is really all the way through all Victoria has been looking for has been a new family.

805
00:54:51.059 --> 00:54:51.480
Exactly.

806
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:57.480
And all the Dr. and Jamie did was to pull a bloody pants down before they left the TARDIS every damn story.

807
00:54:57.539 --> 00:54:59.579
That's outrageous, isn't it?

808
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:00.179
But they did.

809
00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:02.639
No, no, they really did.

810
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:03.360
They really did.

811
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:05.280
Diskirted the poor woman every time, you know.

812
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:06.719
And you said you can all pick her off.

813
00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:08.940
In most stories this season, she'd find...

814
00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:10.559
That's not what nice brothers and fathers do.

815
00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:11.519
No, no, no.

816
00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:14.280
She finds a familiar relationship with someone.

817
00:55:14.340 --> 00:55:16.800
Like, she's like a little sister with Tommy.

818
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:19.440
She will forget.

819
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:23.699
She watches the family relationship of the Travers in the weather failure.

820
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:28.800
And then in this, you know, she sees an opportunity to have that familiar relationship.

821
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:34.800
That was cruelly torn away from her when we 1st meet her and she's been incredibly strong the rest of the time.

822
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.840
You know, yes, she does scream when she gets scared.

823
00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:42.300
But it's a wonder she hasn't had a complete nervous breakdown by those points.

824
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:45.119
It's a great testament to the character.

825
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:55.980
And unlike, say, the character of Nissa much later on, where due to the nature of the program, they never really harped back to the fact that she'd been through this massive trauma.

826
00:55:56.039 --> 00:55:58.199
It's always just under the surface with Victoria.

827
00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:08.039
You can see in Debbie Watling's performance that she's kind of just holding it together, especially in enemy of the world, where, you know, she tries to be all happy and, oh, we had this pudding and it was lovely.

828
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:12.780
She's utterly crushed when Griffin turns around and tells her what a stupid idea that is.

829
00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:17.940
Because because she's looking for that familial relationship and you know, nice point.

830
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.280
She was friends with all the servants.

831
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:21.599
Griffin's a servant.

832
00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:24.599
She tries to set up a friendship with him and just gets totally rebuffed.

833
00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:29.699
And here she meets 2 wonderful people who are like, actually, yeah, we could do with a daughter figure.

834
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:30.780
Please come and live with us.

835
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:36.900
I actually think that they look somewhat surprised and horrified, but she's decided...

836
00:56:37.860 --> 00:56:42.239
It's like I'm pretty rudimentarily and horribly, horribly, isn't it?

837
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:43.860
It does kind of just, oh, okay.

838
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:53.280
No, I think Maggie Harris is going to have a quiet word with her husband later when Victoria leaves the room and says, you know, can't we put her out with a solo being this upcoming Wednesday?

839
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:57.059
I look, I think I think it's very nice of you.

840
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.820
It's very sweet if you say such nice things about Victoria.

841
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:07.980
I actually think that she's vastly thinner as a character than we've had before and she's a bit forgettable.

842
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:13.619
And she does have moments of charm, but I was a bit sick of her by the end.

843
00:57:13.619 --> 00:57:22.440
And I have to say she is redeemed by being given some good material in fury from the D, but it is a relief, I think, when Wendy comes along.

844
00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:27.719
I certainly think Wendy is far better cake and 4 months for it.

845
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:33.059
All this stuff I'm getting from Victoria's performance of Victoria's characterisation is coming from Deborah Watley.

846
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:43.739
And I think Deborah Watling, possibly more than anyone else in Doctor Who, takes a character who is very thin on paper and really tries to flesh her out.

847
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:45.900
The success of Victoria is not in the scripting.

848
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:47.579
It is in the performance.

849
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:53.099
It just seems to me that the writers overall are really interested in giving her a character very much.

850
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:53.820
Yeah.

851
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:54.059
Yeah.

852
00:57:54.119 --> 00:58:04.440
And, and, you know, putting her in that stupid frock into the sidemen, it tells you right away that we're only really very, very vaguely invested in the premise of what she is.

853
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:09.179
She really just serves a plot function and she's there to be menaced by monsters.

854
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:14.820
And she does that admirably well, but she's not very interesting as a person, I think.

855
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:16.440
However, nowadays...

856
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:19.139
Waddling is immensely interesting.

857
00:58:19.139 --> 00:58:22.320
Whenever you say you're recommended to talking because she's really out there.

858
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:24.480
She's really hilarious.

859
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:29.579
Yeah, she's very she's open and funny about what happened during her time on the show.

860
00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:31.559
She's come back to do big finish.

861
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:32.699
Yes she does.

862
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:40.320
She's done an excellent big finish with Colin Baker, catching up with Victoria in the 80s where she's an anti-nuclear energy campaigner.

863
00:58:40.380 --> 00:58:41.699
Really?

864
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:45.420
And yeah, she and Colin Baker actually bounced really well off each other.

865
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.519
And of course, when she gets to meet Perry, Perry.

866
00:58:47.579 --> 00:58:49.559
He's like, oh, so did you know Jamie?

867
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:52.440
It's really well done.

868
00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:53.460
It's called Power Play.

869
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:54.000
Okay.

870
00:58:54.000 --> 00:59:01.619
And yeah, it's part of the big finish lost stories range because apparently they were going to bring her back in one of the proposed stories of season 23.

871
00:59:01.739 --> 00:59:03.000
Oh God.

872
00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:04.920
Good season 23 have been any worse.

873
00:59:04.980 --> 00:59:05.880
Stop that.

874
00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:06.179
Yes.

875
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:06.599
Sorry.

876
00:59:06.659 --> 00:59:08.460
Yes, it could.

877
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:10.199
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

878
00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:18.719
So back on Zoe, this is the shorter season of the show so far, I think it's like 40 episodes and am I right?

879
00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:20.159
I think, yes, yes.

880
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:23.760
No, it didn't feel that short. at all.

881
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:25.679
I think if more of them existed, it would feel longer.

882
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:26.579
Shorter.

883
00:59:26.579 --> 00:59:27.719
Shorter. one of those.

884
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.000
I mean, all these sort of patterns, 6 parters and things.

885
00:59:30.059 --> 00:59:37.559
But one of the things that they do to kind of make up the numbers is they have a repeat of evil of the Daleks at the end of the season.

886
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:47.340
So this season ends with the same story that the previous season had ended on and they actually just in the most amazingly bizarre twist.

887
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:50.460
They give it an inseason explanation.

888
00:59:50.519 --> 01:00:00.300
And so the doctor, Zoe stows aboard the TARDIS and before the doctor agrees to take her away, he says, well, I'll have to show you the kind of thing that you're in for.

889
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:04.380
And then he mentally projects onto the Tartar scanner.

890
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.340
The evil of the Daleks, the absence of evil of the Daleks.

891
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:14.099
And we'll find next episode of the podcast and the 1st episode of season six.

892
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:25.440
The doctor arrives on a Mysterious Planet, and he's exhausted from the, the, uh, the adverts thing, all those... very strange.

893
01:00:25.500 --> 01:00:31.380
Not only that, but when they showed episode one the following week over the 1st scene.

894
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.159
There was a little voiceover by Patrick and Wendy.

895
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:35.880
Oh, really?

896
01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:38.159
And sort of saying, oh, doctor, where are we?

897
01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:40.980
Well, so, this is London in 1966.

898
01:00:41.219 --> 01:00:43.380
And the tartness has just been stolen.

899
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:44.219
Let's watch.

900
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:44.880
Wow.

901
01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:46.320
That's spectacular.

902
01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:48.659
So it's not really a repeat, is it?

903
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:52.440
It actually does fit into the continuity at that point. diagetic.

904
01:00:52.500 --> 01:00:54.539
As Carol would say.

905
01:00:55.559 --> 01:01:03.179
Right, so I suppose it's time to get onto our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice.

906
01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:07.679
My genetic letter awards always sort of really fairly obvious.

907
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:13.320
And I think I've laboured this year, what I think the most puzzling creative choice is.

908
01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:28.500
Richard said over and over again that, you know, the show's being prepared for syndication in America and so everything gets sort of homogenised. us the 60s way of doing that. this couple of years for 60s, yeah.

909
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:39.000
Yeah, and but for me, it just, it really just makes a terrible television and I think they finally get it right towards the end and they, they do that by injecting more human elements.

910
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:44.760
But basically what I'm talking about is just the relentless parade of bases under siege.

911
01:01:44.820 --> 01:01:51.480
We've had one story that doesn't fit that mould this year and essentially everything else has been the same.

912
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:57.719
And just the incredible laziness with which the monsters are conceived.

913
01:01:57.780 --> 01:02:03.179
So there's not really anything beyond the monsters, then it's a different kind of outfit this week.

914
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:07.019
If you think about the way monsters work now, do you know what I mean?

915
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:12.599
They tend to have a hawk or a special ability or some kind of thematic resonance to them.

916
01:02:12.659 --> 01:02:18.420
Whereas these are just, you know, scales fur or, you know, silver vinyl.

917
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:24.119
And it is just incredibly lazy and I think it makes this season a bit of a slog.

918
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:26.639
There you go. fair enough.

919
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:34.019
I think my Jenny would the most puzzling creative choice. would be for Victor Pemberton.

920
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:49.079
Who I think is, he's a great asset to the show, but what it is for me is the doctor, Jamie and Victoria's lack of involvement in the plot of Fury from the Deep. and their reactionary nature in it.

921
01:02:49.139 --> 01:02:59.460
Now, I haven't heard the slide, but I think it is highly likely that it relates back to it was an external story brought in, but I just think they could have been more involved with the plot.

922
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:04.199
Oh, look, I just think this season has progressively got better.

923
01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:10.559
Oh, I'm putting it, but show and penitence feed equally. they've taken stock.

924
01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:15.719
They've looked at the things that there was nothing wrong with the with the premise that in this lawyer was doing.

925
01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:19.739
He was looking at marketing and trying to raise the ratings, but it ain't working.

926
01:03:19.739 --> 01:03:22.619
Because the ratings were not growing, whatever you want to say.

927
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:27.900
And it's only really now that you're getting shows that thank you for getting back to David Wichica.

928
01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:28.739
This was his last one.

929
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:29.880
He said, you can all bugger off.

930
01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:30.719
I'm disappearing somewhere.

931
01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:33.239
Well, except for essence of death.

932
01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:33.719
Iish.

933
01:03:33.780 --> 01:03:34.679
I-ish.

934
01:03:34.739 --> 01:03:35.460
He doesn't complete it.

935
01:03:35.579 --> 01:03:38.460
Yeah, because it was you on time, all the rest of it.

936
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:39.420
Hello, Mac Hulk.

937
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:40.679
Looking forward to you coming in.

938
01:03:40.739 --> 01:03:43.619
Yeah, kind of the inheritor of Whittaker.

939
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:49.920
But I mean, maybe maybe we're biased, but I think consensus, you know, how it goes along. goes along certain rails, doesn't it?

940
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:56.400
In the 80s, everyone thought that this was the season, the preceding season, the season, because they've got lots of monsters jumping about.

941
01:03:56.460 --> 01:03:58.260
Last season 19 was good.

942
01:03:58.260 --> 01:04:01.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah. was one of the greatest stories of all time.

943
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:03.000
So he's the one with the greatest story.

944
01:04:03.059 --> 01:04:04.079
They all tunnel.

945
01:04:04.139 --> 01:04:06.420
That'll be an interesting if you have anywhere.

946
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:08.340
I like to hear us say it.

947
01:04:08.579 --> 01:04:17.219
Yeah, so if you ask me, what do I think was a puzzling decision, I think it was simply to try and do what other shows have done before.

948
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:21.119
It's not really a thing Batman so much as I think it said it before.

949
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:23.219
It is trying to do the Avengers this year.

950
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:23.760
You go, what?

951
01:04:23.820 --> 01:04:28.860
It's totally different, but it's not in the way that it's formulaic and procedural land.

952
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:34.619
It's the Avengers and they're going, I think that that's a puzzling choice because the reason Doctor Who's great.

953
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:56.820
And I reckon we're kind of getting this now, the reason it's still sort of going and it has, Sorry, folks out there, but it's still getting publicity and still honoured by the press and by the public is because of what Russell did in the 1st few years. to quote Derek show and it's getting on my tips. the modern series.

954
01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:03.300
It is because it's indulgent and it's a little bit messy and it's a big vanglorious in the current writing.

955
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.599
And I think Doctor Who in this year is doing the same kind of thing for different reasons.

956
01:05:06.659 --> 01:05:16.860
It was amazing in the beginning because it had a gay Jewish 26 year old woman starting a show with a gay Asian.

957
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:19.019
Yeah, it already came out later in life.

958
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:19.619
Did she?

959
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:20.400
Yeah, yeah, she did.

960
01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:21.539
Why did no one tell me?

961
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.260
Did you know?

962
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.800
No, she was really quite open by the time she was doing rock follies in the 70s.

963
01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:26.579
She was she was out.

964
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:27.000
Yeah.

965
01:05:27.059 --> 01:05:27.480
Wow.

966
01:05:27.539 --> 01:05:28.019
Yeah.

967
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:33.480
So, and then you've got, and you had a gay Asian director and an Australian writer.

968
01:05:33.539 --> 01:05:34.739
Right, for the 1st one.

969
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.179
Thank you, Anthony Copen.

970
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:38.400
So, you know, it was really progressive right in the day.

971
01:05:38.460 --> 01:05:41.280
They've forgotten by this stage why it was amazing.

972
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:46.079
And Patty's going, come on, I liked it for the reasons that you were doing things that we didn't expect.

973
01:05:46.139 --> 01:05:51.480
BBC was inventive and seen as the go-to for new surprises.

974
01:05:51.539 --> 01:05:54.599
And now it's just trying to do what other people do for the sake of success.

975
01:05:54.659 --> 01:05:59.340
It's like the suits are coming, just the same thing that happened to Hollywood in the 70s and April 80s.

976
01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:02.099
As you know, the suits take over until you had to make a show.

977
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:03.360
No, no, no, no, no.

978
01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:04.260
You make a show.

979
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:08.099
It took someone of Sherwin's, you know.

980
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:10.800
I'm sure Sherman's guttural ability.

981
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:12.840
I wanted to go a little further down the anatomy there.

982
01:06:12.900 --> 01:06:25.980
But to say, you know, and he's really offensive to a lot of people, and he was at the time when he's even more so now, and I love him for it, but just saying, no, this is completely bollocks, you know, go with your gut instinct, have some taste and intelligence.

983
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:27.239
So it's getting there now.

984
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:32.639
So I'd say my my jinny leg was in as Lloyd's decisions back in the day.

985
01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:33.840
Don't, don't.

986
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.119
I think that's the same as mine, isn't it, really, essentially?

987
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:51.119
Well, that idea that Doctor Who went from being a show about exploration of a show that could do anything at all, and a show that, but missed, you know, nearly as frequently as it hit, you know, like the, there are turkeys in the heart and all era on the earth.

988
01:06:51.179 --> 01:07:00.780
But they're trying to do something that has real ambition, whereas this is settled into a groove and just a sort of depressing xenophobic kind of groove as well.

989
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:04.619
I hate the show.

990
01:07:05.460 --> 01:07:07.679
Let's do another podcast.

991
01:07:10.739 --> 01:07:14.519
Well, we've been moving hastily onto our recommendations.

992
01:07:14.579 --> 01:07:16.199
For me, I mentioned them earlier.

993
01:07:16.260 --> 01:07:27.420
I'm going to recommend, is Skinner's animations, revolving around the wheel in space and leather fear.

994
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:28.920
Yeah, she's done a few.

995
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:30.539
So we'll put those up on our website.

996
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.760
That's my recommendation related to this season.

997
01:07:32.820 --> 01:07:41.820
Well, people might not know this about me, but I'm actually a little bit of a Doctor Who geek and I know, you know, like I'm interested in the minutiae of Doctor Who.

998
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:44.639
I have the podcast where I talk to some of my friends about it.

999
01:07:44.699 --> 01:07:46.739
Shock and awe.

1000
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:47.639
It is a bit of thing.

1001
01:07:47.699 --> 01:07:54.960
And one of the resources that I've used and, you know, ranging from, oh, what else is that guy been in?

1002
01:07:55.019 --> 01:08:02.400
Or, you know, even, you know, preparing for the podcast, which it's hard to believe from the finished product, but I actually kind of do that.

1003
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:05.880
Um, is wikia.com.

1004
01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:06.420
Do you know that?

1005
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:15.119
It's like a, a group of websites that just sort of rapid fans create a little subdomain and this one's hardest.wikia.com.

1006
01:08:15.179 --> 01:08:17.520
I think I've heard about that on the electric internet.

1007
01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:19.140
Yes, and it has.

1008
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:21.960
It's a website on the internet.

1009
01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:33.840
And it has all of this sort of terrifying information about all of the sort of history of Doctor Who and things and audios and books and things that I'm just never going to bother to read.

1010
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:36.840
Um, and it's it's really interesting.

1011
01:08:36.899 --> 01:08:39.960
It's got lots and lots of information and they have an app as well.

1012
01:08:40.020 --> 01:08:49.020
There's an app for it, which is quite well designed and it will send the pictures and texts from the website, your electric telephone.

1013
01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:53.939
It's handy and can be used and all cerossover network device.

1014
01:08:54.119 --> 01:09:04.020
You can use it at the bus stop if you're, you know, uncertain of Mel's last name, for instance, or Palister, isn't it?

1015
01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:11.100
Or how many episodes in the Massacre in 28?

1016
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:15.060
So I can recommend that and I'll put links to it in the show notes.

1017
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:17.340
Yay.

1018
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:18.539
Do you have a recommendation?

1019
01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:23.460
Uh, Penderton's 2 from the D. I keep saying just go back to the target novels.

1020
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:31.319
I know, click, click, same record, but yeah, again, we're watching these things in these are different shows that we're actually interpreting on this podcast.

1021
01:09:31.380 --> 01:09:34.619
My go to is still the target models and then the audio.

1022
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:39.060
So my interpretation of the shows is actually radically different from yours from both of you.

1023
01:09:39.119 --> 01:09:39.720
Yes.

1024
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:42.840
So we are we're watching the same show in different ways.

1025
01:09:43.859 --> 01:09:47.640
I don't understand why they say that novels are not more widely available.

1026
01:09:47.699 --> 01:09:52.020
There are quite a lot of them as e-books on, um, yes, on...

1027
01:09:52.020 --> 01:09:54.359
Greed, children and adults.

1028
01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:55.619
Don't listen, read.

1029
01:09:55.680 --> 01:09:56.159
Yeah, yeah.

1030
01:09:56.220 --> 01:10:00.840
I mean, there are there are a lot of them available on Amazon. and a lot of those audios.

1031
01:10:00.899 --> 01:10:03.180
No, as e-books.

1032
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:07.439
And a lot as audios, but by no means all of them.

1033
01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:09.359
And I just don't understand why they're not up.

1034
01:10:09.420 --> 01:10:28.619
Thankfully, the audiobooks are getting a new start next year because audio go, the arm of the BBC that we're releasing them, which was a separate company and then the BBC bought them, but it went under and but there's a new arrangement and more Doctor Who target novelisation audiobooks will be being released from January.

1035
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:30.600
In fact, just this month.

1036
01:10:30.659 --> 01:10:34.020
They release Carnival of Monsters read by Katie Manning.

1037
01:10:34.020 --> 01:10:36.779
Oh, God.

1038
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:38.220
Does she do the chicken noises?

1039
01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:41.460
No, but she doesn't John impression, which is pretty good.

1040
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:42.300
It's good.

1041
01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:43.920
A Joe impression is amazing.

1042
01:10:44.039 --> 01:10:44.760
You should hear it.

1043
01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:46.800
Yeah, yeah, she's she's incredible.

1044
01:10:46.859 --> 01:10:48.119
Well, it is a different voice.

1045
01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:49.859
It is a different voice.

1046
01:10:49.859 --> 01:10:51.000
It's terrific.

1047
01:10:51.060 --> 01:10:52.500
Anyway, that's my other pickup.

1048
01:10:52.560 --> 01:10:53.520
Can I have two?

1049
01:10:53.579 --> 01:10:55.140
No, okay, forget I said.

1050
01:10:55.260 --> 01:10:58.260
So before we finish up.

1051
01:10:58.319 --> 01:10:59.579
We had a competition.

1052
01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:01.140
Hooray.

1053
01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:01.979
Oh, that's right.

1054
01:11:01.979 --> 01:11:06.180
We've been swamped with entry. entry.

1055
01:11:06.300 --> 01:11:06.899
So many.

1056
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:07.979
Yeah, okay, one.

1057
01:11:09.060 --> 01:11:14.039
And I take that on myself.

1058
01:11:14.100 --> 01:11:17.880
I take that as feedback that I made the entry process too complex.

1059
01:11:17.939 --> 01:11:20.579
So all you had to do to enter.

1060
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:30.300
We send some cyber mats to the wheel, to steal the banalium, and then, you know, inspire the wheel people to use their laser, which obviously relies on banana.

1061
01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:34.380
You had to blow up the star, credibly, preferably someone.

1062
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.300
And then you then you had to tweet about it.

1063
01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:41.760
Then post it on Facebook, then post it on Bebo and then post it on Tumblr.

1064
01:11:41.819 --> 01:11:43.079
Not forgetting Weebo.

1065
01:11:43.140 --> 01:11:43.800
Weebo.

1066
01:11:43.859 --> 01:11:46.319
So, you know, we wanted people to go to China.

1067
01:11:46.500 --> 01:11:55.619
So for our ongoing competition, all you have to do is comment on this episode on the website.

1068
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:57.600
Yep, flight to entirety.com.

1069
01:11:57.659 --> 01:11:58.140
That's all.

1070
01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:03.119
Just follow it through to the link, go down the bottom comment, even if you just say sponge, or splink.

1071
01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:05.939
And I mean, Splink is a very useful word.

1072
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:07.680
If Danny Pink could remember to blink.

1073
01:12:07.739 --> 01:12:09.060
We wouldn't be in this problem today.

1074
01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:09.779
Shelby with us.

1075
01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:15.659
But as it is, we should say the winner of our episode 14 competition goes by the handle of fear.

1076
01:12:15.779 --> 01:12:25.439
And so we'll hand, we'll be getting in touch with you about how you would like your target novel delivered, and which target novel you'd like from the selection we have available.

1077
01:12:25.500 --> 01:12:35.399
If you'd like to win a target novel of your very own, please comment on the website and we'll be giving up to a total of 3 away each podcast.

1078
01:12:35.460 --> 01:12:39.060
And that will be announced on episode thing.

1079
01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:41.220
Thing, N +one.

1080
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:46.140
That will be announced on the 2nd episode covering season 6 of Doctor Who.

1081
01:12:46.199 --> 01:12:49.439
Speaking of season 6, as we're about to be going into that.

1082
01:12:49.500 --> 01:12:51.180
Gentlemen, your story allocations.

1083
01:12:51.420 --> 01:12:58.859
So Nathan, your season 6 stories are the seeds of death and the space pirates.

1084
01:12:58.979 --> 01:13:00.479
I don't know what to think about that.

1085
01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:01.439
I've never seen it.

1086
01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:04.380
Now the only Doctor Who story that I have no idea.

1087
01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:05.699
Hooray.

1088
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:08.699
Richard, you get 2 in a row.

1089
01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:09.960
You get the dominators.

1090
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:13.380
And the mind robber.

1091
01:13:13.739 --> 01:13:18.359
Meanwhile, I will be discussing the invasion and the crotons.

1092
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:25.680
And for the final story of the war games, because it's so big and so influential, we're just going to have a massive free for all on that one.

1093
01:13:25.739 --> 01:13:29.279
There's so much variation goes on in that story.

1094
01:13:41.340 --> 01:13:52.560
So we will be back next week. with our discussion of the Dominators, the Mind Robber, and a story I can seem to be very important in Doctor Who's History, the invasion.

1095
01:13:52.619 --> 01:13:53.760
So until then, good night.

1096
01:13:53.819 --> 01:13:55.079
Good night.

1097
01:13:55.140 --> 01:13:55.800
Nice, good night.

1098
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:05.399
You've been listening to Flight 2 Entirety with Nathan Bottomill, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1099
01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:09.239
This episode, Tuningly Cooks, was recorded on Sunday, the 30th of May.

1100
01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:11.760
The next episode will be released on December the 14th.

1101
01:14:11.819 --> 01:14:13.020
You can find us online.

1102
01:14:13.020 --> 01:14:18.119
Flight to entirely.com, quite new entirely on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1103
01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:22.140
I tried activating the sexual rare supply once, but I was all out of love.

1104
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:29.819
Oh, wait, there's something we'll record up.

1105
01:14:29.819 --> 01:14:31.859
Now it's full of coke, as usual.

1106
01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:34.260
Cake plates.

1107
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:35.460
Thank you.

1108
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:37.020
No, it's just using that.

1109
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:39.119
A coaster, like an animal.

1110
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:42.659
That should be in the pot.