WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:49:24

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Hello and welcome to Flight Your Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast who's down there in the darkness in the pipeline.

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Wait.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm a pit of seaweed with hypnotic potential for this

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episode.

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I thought you'd done something.

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I hope you liked it, yeah. might catch on.

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And that means we are back with the last part of Season 5 and

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Doctor Who, talking about 2 classic stories, uh, fury from the

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deep and and the wheel in space.

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So we'll start off by the seaside with here from the deep.

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Bloody seagulls.

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At it again.

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So this is my one, I think.

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But it is.

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And can I just update us on the missing stories status?

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We have 9 recons to go, I think.

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This is the last completely missing story.

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Hooray.

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Doctor Who's history.

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There are little bits and pieces of it still left.

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It's a lot of violent excise, clips, excise from, you know, by the

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ABC sensors and then rediscovered by Damien.

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It's important to note that Damian Shanahan is obviously a schlock

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horror collector and that his entire vault at home must be all of

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the most horrendous thing.

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Exactly.

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He is the too many cooks or tour of...

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Australian television.

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We'll put that in showments, if you have no idea what we're

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talking about.

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So in our last episode, but one.

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I think I went on and on and on about how much I dislike the

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massacre.

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Yes, yeah.

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But also the base under siege is an idea.

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And early on this season, you know, I was pretty convinced that

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what we were essentially getting was, you know, a whole heap of

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pretty interchangeable concept.

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So you would have intransigent base commander, you would have a

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base somewhere, you would have people in stupid costumes, you know

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menacing the base.

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A helicopter. helicopter, phone.

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The BBC phone machine.

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And so this is one where I had never seen it before, the podcast.

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I don't think I'd listen beyond episode one of the soundtrack.

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So this was quite a new experience and I was completely ready to

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absolutely hate it.

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You know, it had the foam machine and all of those sorts of things

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and I just thought it was going to be completely terrible.

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And it does start out like it might be terrible.

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And I guess, I guess the worst thing about it is Robson, where you

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now have, we've had a series of base commanders, haven't we, from

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General Cutler to leader claims to...

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So what's different about this one?

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So it's a base under siege, but where is it?

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What's happening with this?

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So we in, we're in the present day, although it looks nothing like

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the present day.

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We're back on earth, we turn up by the beach.

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There's oil refineries, a lot. strip off again and come and have a

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swim.

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I didn't have thought that would make up.

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Well, they don't land on the beach. in the western water, which

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thanks to the war games, we actually have that landing clip and

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it's a fantastic piece of water.

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So the TARDIS floats.

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What happens in the time, Medler?

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Do they all have to, do they all actually have to go and bungee

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out to see to get back into the TARDS in that case?

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I don't know, yeah, because the tide came in.

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Yeah, tide came in, but it's still there.

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Still where it was.

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He engaged the time anchor.

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I don't know if you just make that up, didn't you?

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I did.

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Yeah.

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Hey, Stephen Moffat.

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I could write for you.

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I'm going to quote Derek Sherwin a lot today on what he took of

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the 60s producer and what he says.

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I may not mention exactly what he says about the current era.

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But anyway.

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Because we can't have the explicit tag.

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Well, maybe we can just use acronyms.

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But this is, I really like this story.

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You've come to like it now.

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So it's kind of like an oil rig thing, isn't it?

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They're out on this before the Zygons.

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They're out on this rig thing. and there's something going on.

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They're refining.

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So there's obviously a mutant spooky ooh, don't drill under there

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because you know what will happen in Inferno.

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It's actually making the whole part where you look a little bit

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you know, are you getting the point now?

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Brendan Nathan, at this point of the show that we didn't actually

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ever need colour, because every story has been, you might say

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nausea, but every story has been analysed and promulgated before

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we even get to the 70s.

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Everything, even the war machines is giving us stuff that Tom and

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later Peter Davis and all the others are going to do really well.

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I had always thought there was like a massively bright line

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between the 60s and 70s and it was partly because the 60s are in

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black and white and partly because we don't have it all.

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And partly because, frankly, I was just not really particularly

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familiar with it.

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But now, and next year in season six, you can really, really see

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how this is sort of working towards the Pertuy era.

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And this could have been in season seven, quite honestly.

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It's very like Inferno.

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And a lot of that is Derek Sherman, who's now script editing and

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taking over from there's some amazing behind the scenes stories of

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what wasn't working out, which is why you get really interesting

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ideas with really what ideas is we've about to discover.

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No, I mean, he lasts into 1970, doesn't he?

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absolutely.

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He produces spearheads in space, Derek Sherwin.

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Yeah.

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BBC removed it.

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It's a terrible acting performance.

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He no lines.

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Okay, because he fires a bloke.

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Shockingly bad.

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So, um, we haven't we have another base command.

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He's called Robson, which is only really one letter different from

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the base commander in the moon base.

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And this base commander, he's going to be intransigent because we

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need the base commander to kind of delay the resolution, you know

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normally the base commander doesn't recognise what's going on

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until the last possible moment.

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This guy's just horrible though.

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He's like really rude and mean to everyone.

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I don't know, like, you know, what passes for kind of management

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training in the in this sort of oil company, but he belittles

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people and yells at them.

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He refuses to slow down the machinery in the event of, you know

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any kind of problem.

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He's really just angry and abusive for no reason at all.

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His character makes a very good point about capitalism in business

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because whenever anyone challenges, Not necessarily him directly

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but when Ben Lutchins is talking to Harris and they're talking

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about, you know, can't we get him removed, get someone else in, the

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response is always, oh, but he's been on the rig for ages and he

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brings in results and that's why they haven't got rid of him.

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So, you know, it's a very good point of, you know, people need

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this gas for power and whatnot.

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So the people getting the gas, they don't really matter just so

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long as the little black rocks make the television work.

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Yeah, yeah, so he could be like a hideous, abusive halfway.

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And so by the end of episode two, I have to say that I wasn't, I

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wasn't hopeful.

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Like, I thought that this was essentially going to be what we've

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been having all year.

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But, I think that I think that I have to concede your point from a

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little while ago, uh, I think it was 2 episodes ago, or maybe even

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last episode where you, Brendan, said that although we had the

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bass under siege template and it was happening over and over again

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what mattered was the sort of variations in in the different

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characters, uh, and even little details of the setting.

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But we had different characters in these base under siege

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stories.

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And here I think the characters are really terrifically

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successful.

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So you mentioned Harris, who is just lovely.

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He seems to be just a thoroughly nice man.

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You know, he's very mild manner.

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He contrasts really well with Robson.

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He has a wife, which is like a weird, rare sort of human charge.

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Yeah, we don't often see interpersonal relationships.

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Well, it was a deliberate thing in this one to try and make it

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more like Russell later did a 1000 years later.

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It's a soap within a show.

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You've got a real couple having real arguments.

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So all the rest of it.

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It's nicely done as a setup for what's going to happen with

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Victoria.

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Yeah, the whole kind of thing.

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Victoria's probably at her winiest in this one too, isn't she?

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You get the point when she keeps saying, you know, why do we

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always end up in these awful place of the terrible things?

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Do you think the TARDIS, the whole reason for this series and all

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these repetitions are based on procedure, there's a pattern.

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Do you think the TARDIS is trying to do her in?

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Yeah, it's trying to get rid of that.

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It really is.

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The thing is, I do find Victoria quite whining this one, but I

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feel that she earns it in this one because right from the very

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beginning, you know, she gets she gets knocked out.

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She holds it together.

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She's picking locks with bobby pins.

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She's something that has abilities of, you know, 70s spy girls who

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are like going to come up and she's, she's signed to him.

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She actually always was a little bit science.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, there's all these subtle references that she was getting up

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to things that her father didn't know about, you know, she knew

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how to make stink bombs, for instance.

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She knows how she knows how to pick a lot.

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And then when we look back at her 1st story, she gets along really

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well with all the servants.

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You have this wonderful image when you get to the end of Victoria

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that actually she's never been really the Victorian nest.

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She puts that she puts that on as a persona.

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But actually, you know, she, instead of going to school, she was

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running, running hooky with the with the servants.

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Yeah, I mean, I wonder whether she's quite as carefully

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characterised as that.

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But at least I think is the 1st time properly that you've had the

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departure of a companion seeded all the way through the story.

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Thankful, yeah.

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So, you know, normally what happens now is if someone's leaving in

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Doctor Who in modern Doctor Who, the story becomes about that to a

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large degree, or it's a giant event and then we get it sort of

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properly dealt with at the end.

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Hitherto, like in the 60s.

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We've just had terrible companion departures where they've just

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been sort of written out midstory or, you know, sort of wandered

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off and never seen again.

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And I guess the high point previously has been Ian and Barbra's

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which wasn't seated.

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I mean, they were already in the present day in their own time

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earlier on in that story.

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But, um, it's it's so heartfelt and it's so beautifully done that

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it really is, and I think, um, uh, the best companion departure

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today.

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But this would have to be the 2nd best one.

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And it is because the way that her discontent with her way of life

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with the doctor is seated all the way through.

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There are a few conversations she has also with Jamie and all of

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that sort of thing about how scary and difficult all of these

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faces under siege are.

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Yes, and honestly, you'd think someone would have to.

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How about right at the end that you get the whole apotheosis for a

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reason she's there. scream, not to give anything away.

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The scream is the thing that makes it just the monster.

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It's not really a monstrous, but it's Adora, the Godzilla monster

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isn't it?

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This is a Godzilla movie.

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If you look at the plotting and the way the whole thing's set up

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bit by bit.

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Just watch any of the 60s Godzillas and you know where this is

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coming from.

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And especially with what Reginald just mentioned, I do recommend

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even if you haven't seen a Godzilla film, watch Godzilla versus

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Hadora.

248
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Godzilla versus Sidora is so different from every other Godzilla

249
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.820
film because it's got an environmental message.

250
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.059
Like a lot of the Godzilla films at the time we were getting into

251
00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:11.940
the 70s now. just don't have any sort of message at all.

252
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:12.840
They did originally.

253
00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:13.980
Oh, they did.

254
00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:15.000
They had an anti-war message.

255
00:12:15.059 --> 00:12:18.120
This was the 1st one with a with an anti-pollution message and

256
00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.279
people these days really quite love it.

257
00:12:20.340 --> 00:12:23.879
But at the time the director was told, do not darken the doors of

258
00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:26.340
Toho, again, you have ruined Godzilla forever.

259
00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:30.779
And, you know, this was after the giant lobster monster of the

260
00:12:30.779 --> 00:12:32.039
Byra horror from the deep.

261
00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:34.860
I think recruitment, like Doctor Who, you can't actually ruin the

262
00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:39.240
brand. always reboot itself.

263
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.019
That brings me to the problem I have with fury from the deep.

264
00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:48.240
And that is that it doesn't feel like a Doctor Who story to me

265
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.220
because of course it didn't start as a Doctor Who story.

266
00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.779
It was a radio play that Victor Pemberton called The Slide and it

267
00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:59.100
just feels like the Dr. Jamie and Victoria had been inserted into

268
00:12:59.100 --> 00:13:01.440
this plot, especially in the 1st 4 episodes.

269
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.759
They're all doing their own thing away from the main pot.

270
00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:07.080
They're investigating the problem.

271
00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:11.159
But, um, the cliffhanger I referenced earlier.

272
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:13.379
It's down there in the darkness in the pipeline waiting.

273
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.100
The Dr. Victor Oratoria and Jamie are back in the TARDIS

274
00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:20.100
conducting experiments on the sea week, they're nowhere near the

275
00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:20.940
plot at that point.

276
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.299
That's why they go back to the Tartars, they go to, do they?

277
00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:24.960
they...

278
00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:27.179
Well, they go to some sort of lab and there's hardest hum is in

279
00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:27.539
the background.

280
00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:30.480
It's hard to tell being that it's reconstruction that I've always

281
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.879
envisioned that scene as being in the times.

282
00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:36.120
I really like that they slide into it sideways.

283
00:13:36.179 --> 00:13:38.159
That's what a real story should be.

284
00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:39.480
They shouldn't be the centre of everything.

285
00:13:39.539 --> 00:13:41.879
They are supposed to be being into.

286
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:42.779
In fact, position.

287
00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.899
By episode 3 though, I think they should be perfectly entrenched

288
00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:47.100
in the whole team, right?

289
00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.879
I think they're always a bit sidelined. actually I actually, I

290
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.879
don't know whether it's me, but I watch these whole stories and

291
00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:57.480
then kind of forget what Jamie and Victoria were doing in them. of

292
00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:57.960
most of the time.

293
00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:00.840
So Victoria resolves the plot.

294
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.379
And I think it's a cruel sort of writerly gag about her

295
00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:05.039
character.

296
00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:08.700
She's not actually quite as screamy as she's portrayed here.

297
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.879
She tries to scream at the drop of the hat. you know, she's

298
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.820
screaming at the ventilation shafts and various other things.

299
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:16.860
She might have read the da Vinci code.

300
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:21.840
There's a page and a half in that where Dan Brown talks about the

301
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:25.379
narrative he's actually driven by his description of the air

302
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:26.519
conditioning in the gallery.

303
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.460
So you know what?

304
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.639
This is a really great story compared to popular interest.

305
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:38.580
Oh, God, I'm now imagining Victoria and Jamie in Fifty Shades of

306
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:39.539
Grey, naked.

307
00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:40.080
Why?

308
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:40.919
Why?

309
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:41.820
Why?

310
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:45.360
Who wears the skirting this couple?

311
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.720
And we haven't talked about oak and quill either.

312
00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:50.279
Like there's a whole...

313
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.440
That's actually the main reasons it's good.

314
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:55.980
I mean, and they're kind of a such a weird thing, isn't it?

315
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:56.820
One of them doesn't talk.

316
00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.860
The other ones, it's a lot of hearty kind of thing.

317
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:00.059
Superc.

318
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.080
Supercam.

319
00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:04.620
And they open down and breathe out gas and kill people.

320
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:05.759
So, Supergat.

321
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:08.399
Did you know that Pemberton wanted them to have a spinoff series?

322
00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:12.120
He'd actually written, yeah, he'd written a crazy, he'd written to

323
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:12.720
the BBC.

324
00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:14.759
He thought that they were that interesting.

325
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:15.960
You've got to remember that.

326
00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:18.659
You've got to remember that Batman was doing really well still on

327
00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:22.980
ITV right opposite, so that kind of villain was a cool thing.

328
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:24.779
Can you imagine what that would have been like?

329
00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:26.759
And well, just 3 years later.

330
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:30.120
Ah, Mr. Winston, Mr. Winston.

331
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:31.559
Yeah, actually, items are forever.

332
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:33.299
Yeah, pretty close.

333
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:34.860
Well, they're both sort of gay.

334
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:35.460
Are they a couple?

335
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.299
Well, Mr. Winter, Mr. can do walk up holding hands at one point.

336
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.399
It's hard to say with Mr. Oakman's quilt, but.

337
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:42.659
I don't think it's hard to say.

338
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.500
Of course, as we have discussed before, Victor Pemberton is gay.

339
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:51.299
Oh, okay, Supergate. is partner at the time and for the 40 years

340
00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:53.879
following Worlds David Spencer, which made Tomney.

341
00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:58.440
So it's quite possible that these 2 characters were envisioned as

342
00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:59.759
a gay couple.

343
00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:01.620
You know, they go everywhere together, they do everything

344
00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:02.100
together.

345
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.080
But with the parenthetic evil couple, because go couples in 60s

346
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:08.159
but always. evil.

347
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:08.879
Okay.

348
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:09.659
Oh, my God.

349
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:10.980
So, what's this?

350
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.299
Like Miss Rogen is a kid.

351
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:13.860
Oh, yeah, rogue.

352
00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:15.419
Marvellous film.

353
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.879
Leopold and Loeb, yeah, going back to the 20s.

354
00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:22.019
Oh, in Cold Blood was a huge hit just the year before and the

355
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:25.440
everybody that Truman Capote's groundbreaking number one selling

356
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:28.320
novel about, well, yeah, based on it.

357
00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:29.460
But anyway, hmm.

358
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:31.379
Gays like killing.

359
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.179
That's what I'm getting from this.

360
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.799
It's also the odd tension then that, okay, guys are like killing

361
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.500
but they're also the most interesting characters there.

362
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:42.659
The outsiders are always interesting.

363
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.720
Yeah, it's just Endora with a vengeance strategy, really.

364
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.559
That scene, though, I mean, and we should mention that, as we said

365
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.059
none of these episodes exist.

366
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.539
But one of the scenes that was cut from the Australian broadcast

367
00:16:54.539 --> 00:16:58.139
on the grounds that it was too scary is the scene where Mrs. Harris

368
00:16:58.139 --> 00:17:02.220
gets menaced by Mr. Oak and Mr. Quill, and it is, they're

369
00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:06.180
repairing the stove, like it's so ordinary and so down to earth.

370
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.539
And it is the sort of thing that pertry will looks like it's going

371
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:13.079
to do over the next few years, but doesn't in fact do.

372
00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:14.940
It's just a woman in her kitchen.

373
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.200
The repairmen come in. but then they open their mouths and it's

374
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.160
utterly terrifying.

375
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.740
Like the scene is really fantastic and they've got terrible

376
00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:25.799
English teeth and so they're even more terrifying.

377
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.740
And it's really terrifically good.

378
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:30.480
Can we talk about the weed?

379
00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:32.339
Oh, I knew we'd get to that.

380
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.400
Yes, yes, yes. 60s preferences.

381
00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.400
All of these people are under the control of the weeds, you know.

382
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:42.180
But so Doctor Who does reap the madness exactly.

383
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:46.019
And the other sort of aspects of the weed aren't quite so well

384
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:51.240
realised, and and the script looks like the weed is, you know

385
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.960
going to be sort of puppet tentacle things, but clearly they can't

386
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:56.099
really afford that.

387
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.799
And so they just wheel out the foam machine again.

388
00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:04.319
And they basically feel Mrs. Harris's entire kitchen and the patio

389
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.519
and stuff with phone.

390
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:07.619
Yeah, Jamie, that's the close skylight.

391
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:10.740
But they're all talking as if it's sort of full of weed and stuff

392
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:14.759
and it's really the climactic battle where we actually get like

393
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:20.339
weed creatures and they're clearly just some guy in a stupid

394
00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:24.960
outfit with tentacle arms flailing his arms around while he's up

395
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.599
to his sort of neck in BBC foam.

396
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:31.079
It really is a fabulously surreal thing if you haven't actually

397
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:31.619
seen it.

398
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:35.519
It is in the recons, but if you've only heard the audio, you won't

399
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.220
really quite get how amazingly weird it looks.

400
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.460
It's one of the ones I really want to have come back because you

401
00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:43.920
hear about, you know, people talking about it, who saw it at the

402
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.579
time and those that remember say that the camera and the dialogue

403
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:48.660
were completely at odds.

404
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.160
So what was going on that you saw was working against how the

405
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.619
dialogue is carrying the story and there was tension in that.

406
00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:59.339
Okay, this is memory, but who directed it?

407
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:00.240
Hugh David.

408
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:03.960
Oh, the story goes that he was completely, you know, cranky about

409
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.859
the scripts and the actors worked out a hell of a lot of it on in

410
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:10.980
rehearsal, but that's what Derek Schoen was now saying and was

411
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:15.779
having constant for cars with Paddy on the set about, you know, I'm

412
00:19:15.779 --> 00:19:18.119
an actor, you're an actor, just rewrite it if you don't like it.

413
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.900
It was very much a wreck way of working it through, but by this

414
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:25.079
stage, trout, it was apparently just so tight, and, you know, it

415
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.220
was supporting 2 families, and he was, oh, it was quite open.

416
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.039
And he's getting to the end of his 2nd production block.

417
00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.400
See, in the next episode of our podcast, they actually started

418
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:39.660
shortening the episodes. was so tired and he just said, I can't

419
00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:40.140
look, you.

420
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:41.099
Yeah, he was threatening to leave.

421
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.859
And, and, um, yeah, they're attractive to things about that.

422
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.140
But yeah, he just didn't have the patience for it anymore, who can

423
00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:47.460
blame him 42 epis a year?

424
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:48.839
It was crazy, wasn't it?

425
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:50.940
I mean, that really is extraordinary.

426
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.079
That tension sort of adds to something I do like about the story

427
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.440
which is the Lovecraft insolence.

428
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.299
Um, you know, and the whole, one of the whole things about

429
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:09.720
Lovecraft is being unable to pin down a specific description of

430
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:13.200
what the sailor saw in the city that night.

431
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.680
So, you know, for them to be saying, oh, you know, it's a weed

432
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:18.599
monster and it's 10 foot time, this, that, the other.

433
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:20.940
And then the visuals don't quite match up to that.

434
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.880
You do begin to doubt your quality of memory, as you were saying

435
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:24.299
Richard.

436
00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:27.720
And it's a weird tension for me for this story.

437
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.299
It's, yeah, it's good and it's scary, but I don't like it as a

438
00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:36.539
Doctor Who story and it's got weird things like that comedy

439
00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:38.759
helicopter chase in episode five.

440
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:39.599
So crazy.

441
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:40.980
Sorry, not even a chase.

442
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.680
It's just comedy helicopter flight. the doctor going, oh, I think

443
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.880
I can buy a helicopter.

444
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:46.920
Oh, oh, okay.

445
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:49.559
Oh, oh, there are lots of meta. 10 minutes.

446
00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:52.079
Yeah, there were lots of men of stand-ups of themselves.

447
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:54.720
And it was actually written into the script after Pemberton's

448
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.160
thing, but that victorious screams would be the weapon of

449
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.259
destruction.

450
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:02.400
No, they actually want to.

451
00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:06.059
And Patty called her old leather lungs because of it.

452
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.660
So yeah, she was, but I just like at the end of it, the final

453
00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:10.319
episode.

454
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:13.200
They defeat the beastie and instead of doing this big mass

455
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.539
destruction just goes back into the water as it should.

456
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.680
Everything returns to normal.

457
00:21:16.740 --> 00:21:22.319
And they have a lovely little sort of, um, to the manor born, good

458
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:24.480
life dinner party in Maggie's horrid kitchen.

459
00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.960
I actually read it.

460
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.759
I'm a huge fan of that, I have to say.

461
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:33.599
Normally Trouton won't stay to say goodbye and will actually speak

462
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.299
off with the other characters is still wondering, you know, where

463
00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:36.900
he's gone.

464
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:42.119
But here, and it's partly in order to sell Victoria's departure.

465
00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:46.380
We get like a really quite affecting scene between Jamie and

466
00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:46.859
Victoria.

467
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:47.640
I pride.

468
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:48.660
It's really nice.

469
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.680
And the 1st time I experienced this story, wasn't listening to the

470
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:52.920
audio.

471
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:53.700
Yeah.

472
00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:55.619
And yeah, I cry.

473
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.019
I was actually sitting on the tube train in London on the way home

474
00:21:58.019 --> 00:21:59.579
from work and I cried.

475
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:01.319
I really didn't.

476
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.980
And I wondered if that had something to do with the fact that you

477
00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:06.900
were on the tube in detail.

478
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.480
That's fairly stressing. anyway isn't it?

479
00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:12.900
So, and then we have the dinner and, you know, Victoria has to

480
00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:14.880
make her decision and things and the dinner is lovely.

481
00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:19.559
And they do a great thing with Robson as well, where he sort of

482
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.059
gets redeemed a little bit.

483
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.299
He's a little bit more relaxed and a little bit less of a sort of

484
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:25.740
an aggressive idiot.

485
00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:28.740
But he's not completely redeemed.

486
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.819
He is still, you know, sort of annoying and dictatorial and

487
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:33.119
things.

488
00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:37.500
So they sort of back away from, you know, making him the good

489
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:37.859
guy.

490
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.700
You know, it's a bit leisurely and things that works terrifically

491
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:42.059
well.

492
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:46.140
This, I think, at this point might be my favourite based under

493
00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:52.920
siege story from season five, but I may revise that assessment by

494
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:54.119
the end of this podcast.

495
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:58.619
For me, it just it doesn't quite work.

496
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.400
It's oozing with atmosphere and the atmosphere is wonderful.

497
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:04.500
It's foaming with atmosphere.

498
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:09.240
But generally I just find it 6 episodes of people are not terribly

499
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.240
interested in shouting at each other and trying to avoid saying

500
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:13.140
the word shaft.

501
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:18.059
Do you know what we've avoided completely is your namesake?

502
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:19.440
No, it was my namesake.

503
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.640
My sister's namesake.

504
00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:23.339
My sister was born Megan Jones, now Megan Regan.

505
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:24.960
Megan Regan Jones.

506
00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:26.279
So she goes by Meg.

507
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:29.640
She's wonderful.

508
00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:32.220
She is the best thing about story.

509
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:35.700
And so she comes in like sort of episode 3 and there's that weird

510
00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:40.140
spooky scene between Robson, who has been possessed by the weed.

511
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.759
He's under the influence of the weed.

512
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:47.579
So many people in the 60s. and Mrs. Harrison there, she walks out

513
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:50.220
to sea in a cliffhaniel that really goes nowhere at all.

514
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.599
Yes, original parent. before original parent. before Douglas Adams

515
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:55.259
in the mood.

516
00:23:55.380 --> 00:24:02.039
So Megan Jones comes along and she was the grandmother in the

517
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.440
Idiot's Lantern, the faceless grandmother.

518
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:06.599
Granny Connolly. much, much later.

519
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:11.519
And she also sentences Blake to exile on Cygnus Alpha.

520
00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:12.119
She does too.

521
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:14.160
Yeah. but she's terrific.

522
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.140
She's really competent and sort of fabulous.

523
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.539
And you've had this idiot based commander and suddenly she's

524
00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:22.799
replaced by a fantastically competent woman who, you know, is

525
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.160
incredulous initially, but fair enough, but yeah, you know, she's

526
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.059
not an obstacle.

527
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.299
She's quite sensible and it is so unusual again.

528
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.059
We've said this before, but maybe it is becoming normal from here

529
00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:38.460
on in that you, it's not just all men and the female companion.

530
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.440
Here we have 2 female guest stars.

531
00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:44.039
What you feed on with this is that it's not the concepts because

532
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.819
we've seen them all Romeo and many times over this season.

533
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.519
So what you do with them and how you interplay and put the stuff

534
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.880
into it and how you how you work out the pieces that work in

535
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:54.119
between.

536
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:57.539
And for all those reasons that you've said and characters and the

537
00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:00.720
way they develop them and just what's going on in the sitcom level

538
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.859
which is just human. underneath it or a parallel to it, works

539
00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:05.700
really well with this.

540
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.900
Uh, we didn't mention just parenthetically, no one dies.

541
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.539
All of those people come back and we're all okay.

542
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.720
Even Van Lutchins, who looks like he's going to die horribly, I

543
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:16.559
think, survives.

544
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.579
Yes, yes, yes.

545
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:18.420
He comes back.

546
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:19.799
That's John Abenarius.

547
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:20.940
Yes, it is.

548
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.880
Another thing I've noticed in how we're reviewing this.

549
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.000
We're actually reviewing 3 different versions of the same story.

550
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:30.000
That's the nice thing and the interesting thing about Doctor Who

551
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.440
up to mid 70s.

552
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:36.240
I'm probably reviewing, 1st of all, the audios, but before that

553
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:37.140
the target novels.

554
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.619
The target novel of this was written by Victor Pemberton.

555
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.079
It's a really thicky, I think it was the thickest one that they

556
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:43.440
ever did.

557
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:46.019
Yes, I think they blew out to 160.

558
00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:46.619
They did.

559
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.759
How do you know what?

560
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:48.359
War and peace.

561
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:49.019
They did.

562
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:49.859
And it's pretty good.

563
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.680
I haven't read it since it came out, but I liked it at the time.

564
00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:54.839
I thought this was interesting and the character development is

565
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:55.380
all there.

566
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.019
All the things you're talking about, Nathan Jones, are really

567
00:25:58.019 --> 00:25:59.339
prevalent in the narrative.

568
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.839
And it's a really thin, late 60s piece of politics stuff happening

569
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:05.519
here and it's good.

570
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:06.299
It's a good book.

571
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:09.779
That's my memory of it and that's why I like it.

572
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.480
So she's spectacular.

573
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:15.240
Isn't it lovely that we've got a text that can be viewed on

574
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.900
several different media and have a completely different take on

575
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:19.079
it.

576
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.500
How many other how many other programs can offer that?

577
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:23.220
Not many.

578
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:25.859
So is that, is this Hammerton's last one?

579
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.599
It's his only one.

580
00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:29.460
What about pescatons?

581
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.220
Well, his only TV, his only TV one.

582
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:34.500
He really recycles a lot of this, doesn't he?

583
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.859
I mean, I think it's the Tom Baker's inexplicable recorder that

584
00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:39.839
puts paid to the pescatons, probably.

585
00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:44.400
But this has also recycled itself many times, though, you know

586
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:50.220
you've got the, again, the zygons. ontological threat.

587
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:53.519
Yeah, I mean, in a way also this year's listen reminded me of a

588
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.880
little of this one because you don't really find out what the

589
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:57.599
monster was.

590
00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:01.500
And I know I know the point of listen is meant to be. monsters you

591
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:03.420
were just imagining it. what was under the blanket?

592
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.000
Ugly and ugly child.

593
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:11.579
Children usually give it away after a while, I say, that went on

594
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:14.220
far too long to me, just unless it's a very sin switch.

595
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:15.720
Yeah, exactly.

596
00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:27.960
So now for the first time in quite a while, we're back off

597
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:31.259
interspace onto a wheel of some kind.

598
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:32.279
The hubcap inspect.

599
00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:33.299
Oh, good space.

600
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.880
The hubcap in space is mine. mine.

601
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:37.019
Oh, mine.

602
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.619
And Nathan, I believe you've got a status report on the

603
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:41.819
functionality of the wheel.

604
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:42.480
Okay.

605
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:48.720
So we are, we have episodes 3 and 6 of this. and I watch the loose

606
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:51.720
cannon reconstructions and they're spectacularly good.

607
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:52.859
They are wonderful.

608
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.119
They do a really good job.

609
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:58.619
So there's a sort of stupid robot in episode one and they animate

610
00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:00.059
that just splendidly well.

611
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:05.700
They have CG cybermen and they have they have CG astronauts.

612
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:07.500
And CG Spears.

613
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:08.220
Yeah, yeah.

614
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.039
So it's really, it's really quite fun to watch.

615
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:18.900
And so this is, you know, our last story, but one with sort of

616
00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:22.200
substantial amounts, missing episodes.

617
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:25.920
So everything pretty much exists next year.

618
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:30.599
They've animated to episodes of the invasion, which we'll talk

619
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:34.259
about in our next episode, and we've got space pirates, which is

620
00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:36.240
sort of more or less completely missing.

621
00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:40.799
But the horrors of season 4 with its no complete stories at all.

622
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:42.660
They're long behind us now.

623
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.500
Indeed.

624
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:48.180
I should just mention the animator of these sequences.

625
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.920
Her name is is Skinner.

626
00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:55.259
And as well as animating these sequences, she has animated the

627
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:59.700
special web of fear trailer, the one with the doctor talking to

628
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.519
the camera and saying, you know, if mommy and daddy get scared

629
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:03.779
it's okay for you to hold their hand.

630
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:09.420
And she animated a trailer of the wheel in space in the style of

631
00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:10.859
the 1st alien film.

632
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.980
So we'll put up links for both of those because she does fantastic

633
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:14.400
work.

634
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:17.339
And especially the server robot in F1.

635
00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:23.759
And I do want to focus on E1 just for now because everyone is Pure

636
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:24.779
David Whittaker.

637
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.660
It's the isolationism of the edge of destruction.

638
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.299
The TARD is trying to communicate with the doctor and Jamie.

639
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.960
It's hard as being this mental force, having its own mentor

640
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:34.440
force.

641
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.000
That's very David Whittaker.

642
00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:38.880
They find a food machine that puts out things in little silver

643
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.500
cubes, that's David Whitaker.

644
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.019
It's the doctor and Jamie wandering about the ship just by

645
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:44.279
themselves for 20 minutes.

646
00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:46.980
You haven't mentioned mercury in the fluid list.

647
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.299
Oh, mercury in the fluid.

648
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:48.900
Of course.

649
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:50.640
Pure donate, winter.

650
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.380
And also just sort of playing for time.

651
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:54.359
David Whittaker.

652
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:55.799
It takes us a long while.

653
00:29:55.859 --> 00:29:59.039
We expect an episode one cliffhanger with Cybermen in it.

654
00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:00.660
Yes, but don't get that.

655
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:05.099
Well, I do I do have to wonder if the audience will read. was a

656
00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:07.440
side man story because the sidemen don't turn up until the end of

657
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:07.920
episode two.

658
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:10.740
And even then, sort of only in silhouette when you see a hand, but

659
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:11.220
that sort of thing.

660
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.099
What I found very interesting rewatching at one for the podcast

661
00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:18.660
was I thought, oh, you know, this is clearly an influence of 2001

662
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:22.319
a space Odyssey, but then I discovered that episode one was

663
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.339
broadcast a week before a space Odyssey was released in the UK.

664
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:32.519
And that shot of the of the Pan Am shuttle linking up with the

665
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.119
Hilton Space Station was really iconic at the time and everyone

666
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:39.720
was now obsessed with slow waltzing hardware. space.

667
00:30:39.779 --> 00:30:42.660
So you get this whole, but at the same time you get the frisson or

668
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:45.960
you get the duality of it being something that was feared because

669
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.259
it was already seen as information overload back then, even before

670
00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:52.980
they had apps and me pods and myself devices.

671
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:57.480
And people were genuinely concerned, you read the columns in the

672
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:01.259
press at the time of how much their children were going to be able

673
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:02.940
to cope with this kind of thing.

674
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.940
The robots were going to take their jobs and we're all going to

675
00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:06.480
have to.

676
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:10.500
It's not necessarily, you know, an optimistic or utopian view that

677
00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.539
they're all wearing groovy or part outfits.

678
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:14.819
Most of them get killed, especially if you're a bit slow and fat

679
00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:15.720
in this.

680
00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:17.039
You don't tend to survive very long.

681
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.220
Well, that was the other thing I thought was an obvious

682
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:20.940
influence.

683
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.019
Star Trek.

684
00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:26.579
But I then discovered Star Trek in the UK phrase. right.

685
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:27.720
It's not trick, yeah.

686
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:29.519
I did have to wonder though.

687
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:34.740
Because David Whittaker, I believe, as well as freelancing, was

688
00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:36.960
occasionally a Starfry for the BBC.

689
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:40.740
I do have to wonder if he maybe saw some screeners of some, but

690
00:31:40.740 --> 00:31:42.119
this is really not about Trek.

691
00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:44.940
Trek was actually not original in itself.

692
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:51.000
It stole a lot from Rompotrui Orion. from the Peter Thomas school

693
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:55.799
beautiful Bavarian TV, the go to 60s TV thing, 6465.

694
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.059
And it was also a lot more conquest space, the 1950 film.

695
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.019
This is Conquest in Space, a Willie Leigh, LEY book that came up

696
00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:04.319
then.

697
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.980
It's pretty much meant to event the same thing, but without, like

698
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.680
things but the same kind of stuff.

699
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:14.039
And there's this whole thing with the progression and the mark, the

700
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:15.180
long march forward.

701
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.960
And any villain is a commie and the whole thing of the long march

702
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:22.259
forward is, yeah, we're getting that, you know, the future is not

703
00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:24.900
altogether shiny and bright and new. that people weren't that

704
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:25.200
silly.

705
00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:29.400
But it does, I mean, it does also just copy lots of previous

706
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:30.240
Doctor Who.

707
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:33.599
So if you think about the moon base, the moon base has, or even

708
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:38.700
the 10th planet, actually, both of those have like a multicultural

709
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:42.480
crew, you know, from all sorts of different places and this has

710
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:47.400
that. an intransigent base commander and we've got that again in

711
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:48.599
Jarvis Bennett.

712
00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:51.539
But I think the thing that makes this stand out is that the

713
00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:55.680
characters are just really good and really interesting. really

714
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:56.039
well written.

715
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:59.339
And the other thing that makes it stand out is Gemma Corwin.

716
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:04.200
Well, Gemma Corwin, Tanya learn of, and we'll come back to her...

717
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:05.640
The Zoe Heron...

718
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.440
Duggan is great.

719
00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:08.640
Rico is great.

720
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:09.599
Leo is great.

721
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:10.740
Like all of those characters.

722
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.700
This is very much like Anderson's UFO, which wasn't out yet, but

723
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:18.420
the supporting cast, Anne Riddler, who plays Gemma Corman, is one

724
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.220
of my favourite actresses of this period.

725
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:22.619
She was in a show placed on a rumour golden book called The

726
00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:25.319
Didacoy that came out in the 70s and she plays the same kind of

727
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:27.420
part several times over in a very short career.

728
00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:29.400
And Riddler plays these.

729
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.079
And Whitaker loves doing this.

730
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:36.059
He throws the doctor in almost immediately with a mature and up

731
00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:40.440
intelligent and independent, highly motivated woman and they start

732
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:42.000
flirting almost immediately.

733
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.099
Oh, very peach.

734
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.700
Yeah, yeah.

735
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.480
It's just really, really don't like that she doesn't make it to

736
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:48.720
the end.

737
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:53.940
It seems that if you've got the grooviest Chelsea boots and you

738
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:56.339
look really good in the outfit, you survive in this story.

739
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.519
If you've been on the putty side, who's the bloke who ends up

740
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:03.000
doing a really ill-advised rumber with a cybermats and dies about

741
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:03.299
it?

742
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:04.859
Yeah, Dugan doesn't make it.

743
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:06.960
Yeah, you see, Duck.

744
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:10.199
And he stands up and he doesn't look as good in the suit. die.

745
00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:15.300
But I think I'm happy to report, Richard, that Andrew lived to the

746
00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:19.440
live to the very, very experienced age of 89 years.

747
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:20.579
Oh, I'm so glad.

748
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:24.239
But she just has such manifest glory and understated warmth and

749
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.699
charm and intelligence in everything I've seen her do.

750
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:30.900
Guest cast always get killed in Doctor Who and I actually, the

751
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:31.199
wrong ones.

752
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:34.559
Yeah, no, but I think here having a really sympathetic, really

753
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:38.340
likeable character get killed up to the stakes, it upsets the

754
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:40.920
doctor, you know, like he's visibly shaken by it.

755
00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:43.619
But couldn't we have had him go off with the woman who's obviously

756
00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:46.920
flirting with and haven't really interesting you with a mature

757
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:50.639
woman like Gemma Corwin and Zoe can just stay there being kind of

758
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:55.440
you know, Romeo, proto-companion, tippy type.

759
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:56.639
I love Wendy Paprio.

760
00:34:56.699 --> 00:34:58.980
I really love it, but I actually really like Zoe.

761
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:02.460
I mean, Zoe is a very high concept character when she's

762
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:02.820
introduced.

763
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.019
She's a pure SFI concept. back to Heinland now, yeah.

764
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.719
They do backpedal from that and she doesn't end up being like that

765
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:11.099
really particularly.

766
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:13.079
So she's never a screamer though, is she?

767
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:13.559
No.

768
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.260
She'll have a yell when she falls down at my shark.

769
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.139
A couple of screens, but she is not a screener.

770
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:19.619
No.

771
00:35:19.619 --> 00:35:20.099
Yeah.

772
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.400
No, in fact, she's a deliberate contrast with Victoria.

773
00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:25.079
So she's from the future instead of the past.

774
00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:28.500
She's, uh, because you might know you love that when they're on

775
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:29.460
contranged.

776
00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:32.039
Well, yeah, no, I just find that sort of slightly irritating, but

777
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:34.440
I think that I actually think that Zoe works really well.

778
00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:39.840
Because she's sort of perky and healthy and kind of likeable.

779
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:43.860
And although, although, you know, she's been brainwashed by the

780
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:46.920
parapsychology unit and she has a head full of facts and she's

781
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.619
like a human computer and stuff and everyone's kind of slightly

782
00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:51.000
rude to her for that reason.

783
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:52.679
And she's like, oh, aren't they?

784
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:53.699
There's a nice little fish on.

785
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.960
She's the Actually, you're right.

786
00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:57.659
She's the fan girl in the way that Susan was originally the fan

787
00:35:57.659 --> 00:35:58.079
girl.

788
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.719
She's too bright for the class and the kids will pick on it

789
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:03.599
because she's too, and that's where all the smart kids at home who

790
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.199
are watching this.

791
00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:04.920
And you're right.

792
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:08.039
I like that it's a female character because there were fang girls

793
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:08.699
in the 60s.

794
00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:10.139
We just didn't have names for ourselves.

795
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:12.780
And she's sitting there being a little fan and saying, I read

796
00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:15.179
science fiction and I'm the only one in the universe who does it.

797
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:18.900
Well, in fact, she expresses dissatisfaction and says that she

798
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:20.340
doesn't want to be emotionless.

799
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:23.820
And of course, that works quite well thematically, doesn't it, with

800
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:25.440
the idea that there are Spider-Man.

801
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:27.840
You know, the emotional cybermen are lurking outside.

802
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:31.800
And on the other hand, you've got the incredibly emotional, but

803
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.800
pretending he's logical jobs.

804
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:36.539
Now, this is crazy.

805
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.280
So we're in the 10th planet.

806
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:41.400
We had the cybermen contrasted with General Cutler, who was

807
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:45.840
massively emotional, and we put everyone's lives.

808
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:46.380
Yeah, yeah.

809
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:47.039
Here.

810
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:51.239
Santa suggests that maybe it's a sort of Whittakercarian kind of

811
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:52.139
joke.

812
00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:55.739
The base commander is just literally crazy.

813
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:58.739
Like he's intransigent, not because he can't accept reality or

814
00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:00.659
anything, but just because he's just certified.

815
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.420
Yes, he's actually completely paranoid.

816
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:06.420
He has a lot of symptoms of something called borderline

817
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:07.559
personality disorder.

818
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:08.940
That's Robson.

819
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:09.960
He had that in spades.

820
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:13.679
Well, what I personality disorder, um, one of the things there is

821
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.199
you are paranoid, you think that everything is out to get you.

822
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.079
And you personally.

823
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:20.280
It can't affect anyone else.

824
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:21.119
It's just affecting you.

825
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:26.099
So whenever something presents itself that can't be explained

826
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:31.559
Jarvis takes it very, very personally, like, no, I can't I can't

827
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:33.300
be serious right now, therefore it's not happening.

828
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:37.199
And there's just this there's this wonderful rising panic about

829
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:37.440
him.

830
00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:40.739
And I don't know, I do think, oh, you know, we've got another

831
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:44.699
We've got another mad, inflexible leader, but I think where this

832
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:49.260
succeeds where, say, General Cutler and Ted Planets didn't succeed

833
00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:52.679
as well, is actually in the crew because as you said, they're a

834
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:53.519
multinational crew.

835
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:55.980
And by multinational, yeah, pretty much they're still all coming

836
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.079
from Europe and the colonies.

837
00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:02.340
But at the same time, the grew is roughly half men and half

838
00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:02.880
women.

839
00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:07.139
And with the exception of Java's and possibly Bill Duggan, there

840
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:10.800
are all these bright young things whose eyes are open to new ideas

841
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:14.039
whereas Java's Bennett is the old guard.

842
00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:16.860
He's like, no, I will run this station, how I've always run this

843
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:19.559
station because it's been working perfectly well for 50 years and

844
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:20.519
why should I change it now?

845
00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:25.440
Whereas... very comfortable position with my arse really firmly

846
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:27.420
pressed into this rather cutting the leather red.

847
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.380
I'm just...

848
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.719
No, I just think he's an idiot.

849
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.820
Like, he's an idiot.

850
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.079
Yeah, and that's actually kind of boring.

851
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.000
Why do we still get 2D?

852
00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:37.679
Oh, you know, it's K mutiny.

853
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:40.380
It's, I don't know, all this stuff right back too.

854
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.079
Maybe Dick, your commanders, and lots of folks.

855
00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:45.599
Don't forget the mums and dads watching us, all the dads and

856
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.139
especially.

857
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.860
A lot of them are in the war at least in that effort when they

858
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:50.760
were young lads.

859
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:55.139
They all had controllers and commanders like this, they all had

860
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:57.539
you know, subalterns like this, and they remember that most things

861
00:38:57.539 --> 00:39:01.559
go wrong because of bad decisions by people in leadership.

862
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:05.159
So it's just something that people took for granted as a dumbass

863
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:05.519
thing.

864
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:08.400
For me, it's a very political point because when I used to be a

865
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:11.159
teacher in the UK, One of the things that greatly frustrated me

866
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:15.480
was the education minister there at the time kept coming out and

867
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:17.940
saying things like, well, you know, the system's not working and

868
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:21.659
it, you know, it can't possibly be working because this is

869
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:23.519
happening and I don't like what's happening here.

870
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:25.320
And it just always amazed me.

871
00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:28.679
It's not just him, but education medicine's the world over, say.

872
00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:29.880
The system isn't working.

873
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:32.760
The system that educated me to the point where I could become a

874
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:34.079
government minister isn't working.

875
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:35.760
Yeah, because he went too late.

876
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:36.360
Yeah.

877
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:41.159
So, you know, Jarvis is like, we must maintain the system the way

878
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.019
I maintained it, despite the fact there's been all these other

879
00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:45.179
advances and there's all these new people coming through, but they

880
00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:49.380
can't possibly have any good ideas. this year wouldn't you?

881
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:54.300
Well, it's a timeless, really, yeah, conservative in its politics

882
00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:54.539
yeah.

883
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:59.400
Good leaders, i.e. Gemma Cohen, who is in a position of power in

884
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:00.119
the station.

885
00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:06.539
Don't try to shoe horn facts to fit their worldview.

886
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:11.159
She goes, she, for instance, accepts, okay, there are these 2

887
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:12.659
people who are obviously lying.

888
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.559
She says, I believe Jamie was lying, but reluctantly, and she

889
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:18.059
lifts all the things he's lying about.

890
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:20.159
And she's like, I don't think he's dangerous, but there's some

891
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.119
reason that he's lying.

892
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:23.460
Whereas Jarvis immediately goes, right, well, they must be so

893
00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:25.079
always, and they must be here to sabotage us.

894
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:26.760
And Jenna's like, no, I don't think that's it.

895
00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:29.760
But that's his that's the only thing that fixes wellview rather

896
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.380
than actually looking at what's going on around him.

897
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.079
And I think that's why the characters in this is so successful

898
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.199
because they've each got their own worldview and it informs their

899
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:37.559
actions.

900
00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:41.039
I also think the pacing of it helps because you've got episode one

901
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.739
which is just, you know, 20 minutes of faffing about, as we said.

902
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:47.340
But then the doctor has a lovely holiday in episode 2 while he's

903
00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:50.760
unconscious and Jamie gets introduced to the bass characters and

904
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:51.420
they have to carry it.

905
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:54.599
And so, yeah, Fraser carries the episode really well on his own.

906
00:40:54.659 --> 00:40:58.320
But it's not really on his own because you have this strong

907
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.500
ensemble of characters that all get introduced.

908
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:04.559
And so by the time Gemma dies, we know her really well.

909
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.400
By the time Bill Duggan dies, we know him, he collects plants

910
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:12.300
everyone thinks he's slightly crazy, you know, like I think all of

911
00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:14.280
that stuff is terrifically effective.

912
00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:18.239
The worst person, though, and the most embarrassing moment is

913
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:18.960
Chang.

914
00:41:19.019 --> 00:41:20.340
You said everyone was from Europe.

915
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.920
And there's a man called Chang.

916
00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:27.000
There's a man called Peter Ladd, who plays Chang, and like the

917
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:33.059
accent is just absolutely like, oh, clenchingly, you know

918
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:33.659
embarrassing.

919
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:37.199
I think just, I think that's why I'd forgotten him. so bad.

920
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:41.219
It's so unbelievably awful, but fortunately he's killed quite

921
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:41.699
quickly.

922
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.239
So we don't have to put up with him for very, very long.

923
00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:48.659
Yeah, I mean, Donald Sumpter being browned up to kind of look a

924
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:51.780
bit Mediterranean wasn't that great to start with. but yeah.

925
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:52.440
Who was that?

926
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:53.219
Rico.

927
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:53.820
Rico.

928
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:54.239
Rico.

929
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:56.159
But Rico is such a sweet character.

930
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:59.639
Well, I mean, it helps that he is not played as a stereotype.

931
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:03.840
No, no, he's not like Tito, whatever his name. in the 10th part of

932
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:04.199
the 10th.

933
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:05.880
I'm not telling you.

934
00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:07.739
No, that was pretty bad.

935
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.179
He's lovely.

936
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.599
And the other thing we haven't mentioned is, is Leo and Tanya have

937
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:16.739
this sort of growing romance, which there are no scenes about the

938
00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:20.699
romance, but just gradually, oh, maybe. just all in the

939
00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:21.059
performance.

940
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.179
And when the actor's performance, by the end of it, he's sort of

941
00:42:24.179 --> 00:42:26.940
they're draped all over each other and things, but it's really

942
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:30.960
warm and a little bit grown up in the sense that, you know, it's

943
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:35.099
not just a whole bunch of men, you know, it's people with with

944
00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:38.460
relationships, like we saw in theory from the deep with Maggie and

945
00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:42.179
Mr. Harris, we must have a 1st name, but I don't know what it is.

946
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.639
Did we get any arrangement power of the dark?

947
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:49.980
with the old... with John Shanway and...

948
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:53.400
Yeah, well, I think Wisha tries to flesh out his characters.

949
00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:56.820
But I'm trying to think because Sherman was also really determined

950
00:42:56.820 --> 00:43:00.059
to get this show, get the ratings back and actually get this to be

951
00:43:00.059 --> 00:43:00.840
a popular thing again.

952
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:03.119
In Paradox, we also had Dr. Fane.

953
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:05.280
Because I was going to say the thing with generally what she's

954
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.820
painted as villainous because she uses her feminine wiles. to lure

955
00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:10.739
men into stupid plans.

956
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:15.780
But Dr. Fenn is a far more balanced character, she's still

957
00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:18.119
involved with the rebels, but she has a conscience about it.

958
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.739
And I did that.

959
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.019
Certainly, Whittaker has always been a master of

960
00:43:22.019 --> 00:43:22.679
characterisation.

961
00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:26.820
Korea, who we talked about last episode.

962
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.039
Well, all of those characters.

963
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:31.619
We should just have a whole podcast for Korea.

964
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.460
Let's just talk about it means the world, yeah.

965
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.280
And that's the good stuff.

966
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:39.659
Can we talk about the same?

967
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:41.039
I can see.

968
00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:43.679
I can see you segueing towards the cyber plan.

969
00:43:43.739 --> 00:43:50.039
So the cybermen, whether I really dislike wheel in space because

970
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:54.300
David Whittaker just suddenly has some contempt for astrophysical

971
00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:54.780
concepts.

972
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:58.739
Or if I really love it because it very aggressively goes, who

973
00:43:58.739 --> 00:43:59.460
needs science?

974
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:00.239
Screw that.

975
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:01.559
We're going to have fun.

976
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:04.320
We're going to blow up a star several light years away and it's

977
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.260
going to affect us instantly because screw you, that's why.

978
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:08.760
Yeah, no, it's crazy.

979
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:11.940
So the cybermen here, they don't actually get much dialogue and

980
00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:13.079
they aren't very many or something.

981
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.000
And, you know, we've had so many.

982
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.400
There's loads of them when they do their stagewalk into the

983
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:17.639
mirror.

984
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:20.039
But they don't talk to us.

985
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:22.800
It's not like they take over the base and start moralising at us

986
00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:23.400
is good.

987
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:23.880
Yeah.

988
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:27.119
So they lurk and they're sort of scary.

989
00:44:27.179 --> 00:44:29.940
And they're under the control of the kind of light bulb in an

990
00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:31.260
evening brock, aren't they?

991
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:32.699
The side of the controller.

992
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:34.920
So I look at the cyber planner, really?

993
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:35.519
Is that it?

994
00:44:35.579 --> 00:44:35.940
Yeah.

995
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.679
Real name Pam Pooby.

996
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:39.300
Yes.

997
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:40.980
Yeah, so I can see that happening.

998
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.739
It's a very bizarre looking thing and there just seems to be one

999
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.460
shot of it.

1000
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:45.840
Oh, it's a recon.

1001
00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:48.239
That's why I think that I'm sure it was directed very

1002
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:48.719
thrillingly.

1003
00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:49.920
Yes, yes, yeah.

1004
00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:54.059
As thrillingly as you can direct a light bald inside a metal

1005
00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:54.480
frame.

1006
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:57.840
Well, you know, it's it's an interesting idea because earlier this

1007
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.239
year we had the cyber controller for the 1st time.

1008
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:03.360
So that was a new concept. in tumour decipherment.

1009
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.239
Oh, do you mean Michael Kilgara with me?

1010
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:07.380
Transparent brain.

1011
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.159
Yes, that's right.

1012
00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:11.219
And, you know, obviously at that point, they couldn't bring him

1013
00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:14.699
back because they destroyed him and he never, ever, ever comes

1014
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:15.480
back again.

1015
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:16.500
1985.

1016
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.340
So instead, we have this new idea of the cyber planner.

1017
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:24.900
It's also a total new design for the size of that. new helmets, new

1018
00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:25.260
suits.

1019
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:27.360
They don't have the tape around there now.

1020
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:30.719
They don't have and they've got the little sort of tear ducts.

1021
00:45:30.780 --> 00:45:33.420
Well, the teardrop, which is, you know, was actually one thing

1022
00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:34.739
that Russell insisted.

1023
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:38.639
He said, look, you know, design the side, man, how you want, but

1024
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:40.079
they must have the teardrop.

1025
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:42.780
And in fact, I think it is the wheeling space Simon because

1026
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:46.019
they're going to get stupidly redesigned for the invasion.

1027
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.559
Yeah, we'll talk more about that next time.

1028
00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:53.880
But this is the version of the side amendment is familiar to us

1029
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:54.119
now.

1030
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:57.719
This is what the sidemen essentially look like in modern Doctor

1031
00:45:57.719 --> 00:45:58.079
Who.

1032
00:45:58.139 --> 00:46:01.920
And the 2nd redesign, starting with nightmare and silver, most

1033
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:06.059
recently seen in dark water death in heaven, is based heavily on

1034
00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:07.739
this wheel in space, very slick.

1035
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.679
So it's straight up and down, wetsuit.

1036
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:14.880
Instead of the big hoses they had in the moon base and 2 of the

1037
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.480
site, then it's now this little hydraulic tubes.

1038
00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:18.960
Yeah.

1039
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.000
But I mean, even the even Russell's ones.

1040
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:23.159
And rustling is good that the teardrop be there.

1041
00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:27.659
And that was because he wanted to emphasise that they were human

1042
00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:31.019
beings that had been sort of brutally robbed of their emotions and

1043
00:46:31.019 --> 00:46:31.320
things.

1044
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:33.539
So that teardrop thing stays.

1045
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.119
But their voices are almost incomprehensible.

1046
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:39.059
I think they have like 2 different kinds of voices depending on

1047
00:46:39.059 --> 00:46:42.599
whether they're on film or on videotape. none of that's very very

1048
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:43.260
good.

1049
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.019
And so their plan is to blow up stars.

1050
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:50.159
Many, many light years away to divert meteorites on...

1051
00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:52.500
In fact, their plan is just crazy, isn't it?

1052
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:57.420
So they send CyberMat Suite, the banalium, which they need for the

1053
00:46:57.420 --> 00:46:58.019
laser.

1054
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:02.460
And then they then they bring the silver carrier there and put

1055
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.420
banalium on it.

1056
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.960
Like I just, like, it's just...

1057
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.360
So the sidemen can attack them in mind control.

1058
00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:13.440
The side and then hide in the in the crates with banalium, which

1059
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:15.539
get brought across from the silver carrier.

1060
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:18.719
The whole thing is just mental and then they're diverting

1061
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:23.219
asteroids with explosions that wouldn't actually be visible from

1062
00:47:23.219 --> 00:47:24.360
Earth for several years.

1063
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:25.500
You know I mean?

1064
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.239
Yeah, you can get your calculator.

1065
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:29.099
Hang on, 25,000 light years away.

1066
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:30.059
Messio 13.

1067
00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:32.579
Yeah, yeah. 25,000, 30,000 light years away.

1068
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:34.860
She's got the bestest telescope.

1069
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.159
This is Carl and Zala, having it out and it exploded.

1070
00:47:38.219 --> 00:47:41.639
And I think we were saying he's put that light out.

1071
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:45.900
Yeah, yeah, so, you know, it's crazy.

1072
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:49.079
And, you know, then on top of that, the actual reason they're

1073
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:52.500
doing or since to destroy W3 or Cripple W3.

1074
00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:56.639
So that way they can go down to Earth and take a drink, plunder it

1075
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:57.840
for its mineral wealth.

1076
00:47:57.900 --> 00:47:58.500
W3.

1077
00:47:58.679 --> 00:47:59.880
The space wheel.

1078
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:01.500
It's wheel three.

1079
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:03.420
It's the 3rd wheel of I believe six.

1080
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:05.639
So she called us a 5th wheel.

1081
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:06.539
That would have been better.

1082
00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:11.639
But that just reminds me of 3W from Death in Heaven.

1083
00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:12.360
Is that coincidence?

1084
00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:14.039
Possibly.

1085
00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:16.679
I hadn't thought of that because...

1086
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.320
Sure, we sort of don't know what the 3W mentioned, definitely.

1087
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:21.059
Yes, you need 3 words.

1088
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:22.199
No, no.

1089
00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:23.639
You've seen it.

1090
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:24.719
It's been nice seeing the whole scene.

1091
00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:26.039
What about these people out here?

1092
00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:27.840
They've all seen it.

1093
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:28.980
It's been on television.

1094
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:29.940
By the time we're recording.

1095
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.059
Don't cremate me.

1096
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.940
Oh, yeah, the 3 words I don't create me.

1097
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.780
And yeah, I mean, that all turns out to be Bananas Scheme by Mary

1098
00:48:39.780 --> 00:48:40.440
Poppins.

1099
00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:44.579
But, uh, Space Man, another banana, another banana.

1100
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:45.239
Yeah.

1101
00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:46.500
But yeah, it's just...

1102
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:51.780
It's a Rube Goldberg machine. of the scheme from the cyber bed.

1103
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:54.239
You know, all these little bits have to work when, really, all

1104
00:48:54.239 --> 00:49:01.380
they had to do was go onto the window with their guns and kill a

1105
00:49:01.380 --> 00:49:01.860
bunch of people.

1106
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:03.900
Even if they wanted to do all the other stuff.

1107
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:07.980
They didn't need to explode the star and send the meteors in.

1108
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:11.280
All they needed to do was go, okay, we'll set the sidements over

1109
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:14.519
eat the banalion, then we'll ram the silver carrier into the space

1110
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:15.119
station.

1111
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:16.559
It's still just stupid.

1112
00:49:16.619 --> 00:49:19.019
It's still stupid, but at least that way it's less stupid.

1113
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:20.639
And that's the thing.

1114
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:22.980
You've got all this great characterisation, but you've got this

1115
00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:27.539
great characterisation, citing an utterly bizarre plot. is bonkers

1116
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:27.840
isn't it?

1117
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:30.659
But I think it's still, I think it still works. you know what I

1118
00:49:30.659 --> 00:49:30.840
mean?

1119
00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:33.239
I think it's still really entertaining and the characters are just

1120
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:34.980
great and all of that.

1121
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.980
I don't worry, you know, like I don't mind too much about how

1122
00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:40.320
silly the applaud is really.

1123
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:43.079
I mean, if you're worried about that, then you probably really

1124
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:44.340
want to watch another show.

1125
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.360
Yeah.

1126
00:49:45.420 --> 00:49:47.460
Yeah, I mean, it is highly enjoyable.

1127
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:50.280
And I like it far more than I like Fury from the Deep because it

1128
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:50.940
is enjoyable.

1129
00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:55.739
Um, I just feel it's just strange.

1130
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.059
It could have been it could have been better.

1131
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:02.940
I understand why people don't like this story.

1132
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:07.260
But at the same time, I am someone who will always take a thumb

1133
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:12.059
Doctor Who story with a stupid plot over a Doctor Who story with a

1134
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:13.139
good plot, but no charm.

1135
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:13.619
Yeah.

1136
00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:15.960
Yeah, that's weird.

1137
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:17.219
Lots of charm.

1138
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:18.780
Can I mention the massacre at this point?

1139
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:19.920
No, it's human must.

1140
00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:24.900
Yeah, well, you see, that's a good Doctor Who story with Charm.

1141
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:29.519
Richard, you were saying... thinking of the listener at this

1142
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:29.880
point.

1143
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.500
It's got expression, you know, it's got it's got character.

1144
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.679
What I say, don't read the title novel because it was sort of a

1145
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.159
later thing.

1146
00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:39.719
I don't think it really held up that well.

1147
00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:42.179
It was one of those ones done at a rush at the time of the 80s

1148
00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:45.900
when they were selling the show to the US and it was kind of, you

1149
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:49.139
know, it's not done with the density and purpose that some of the

1150
00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:50.400
other target models were done.

1151
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:51.659
Do we know who wrote it?

1152
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:54.239
I think it was...

1153
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:55.019
Yeah, it was Terrence.

1154
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:56.460
Yeah, I don't remember a thing that looked great.

1155
00:50:56.519 --> 00:50:58.019
Yeah, so it was written by Uncle Terence.

1156
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:00.000
Yeah, but it was one of these ones done in a rush.

1157
00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:01.380
It wasn't, it's nothing, it's not bad.

1158
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:02.579
It just doesn't expand the story.

1159
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.300
Only 23,000 copies of the paperbook edition was circulated

1160
00:51:06.300 --> 00:51:09.059
reportedly due to stocks being destroyed in a warehouse.

1161
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:10.860
Oh, so I'm doing quite well with my issue.

1162
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:13.079
Is actually quite a rare book.

1163
00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:13.800
Hurrah.

1164
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:15.659
You know, so you can get...

1165
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.980
You can get 10 bucks for it instead of 2 on...

1166
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:25.739
I like the bit where the dogs have proposed us to give Jarvis

1167
00:51:25.739 --> 00:51:26.760
Bennett, ECT.

1168
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:27.599
Yeah.

1169
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:30.719
Yeah, we haven't mentioned the sexualist.

1170
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:32.219
Sexual...

1171
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:35.820
Yeah, he was looking at Dr. Coleman when he said that.

1172
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:41.400
Something I found about the servo robot, and specifically the

1173
00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:45.599
animation done by his Skinner, it reminded me of Wally.

1174
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:50.039
And not Wally in particular, the robot Wally from the film Wally.

1175
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:55.260
The gopher robots of the ship have the little shoulder lights like

1176
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:58.980
the servo robot does and have the sort of awkward notion.

1177
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:03.900
So I don't know if Pixar saw a picture of the servo robot or if

1178
00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:07.139
his Skinner went, oh, I like Wally. bring some of that into there

1179
00:52:07.139 --> 00:52:11.219
but I do, I love any sort of intertextuality like that, even if it

1180
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:12.119
is just imagined.

1181
00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:16.559
So, you know, folks, out there, if you like Wally, you will love

1182
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:19.739
is Skinner's animation of the servo robot.

1183
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:21.179
It is very cool Yeah.

1184
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:24.059
She's even got a little blemish on the back of its head where

1185
00:52:24.059 --> 00:52:25.679
there's a blemish on the original prop.

1186
00:52:25.739 --> 00:52:27.059
It's so well done.

1187
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:32.699
Wendy Patbury was offered this role for a year or a film role.

1188
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:36.840
Um, and she took this one because apparently Paddy had been a

1189
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:40.079
childhood hero of hers and the idea of working with him for a

1190
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:42.480
whole year was really exciting, probably a bit more money.

1191
00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:46.920
The film would have been with Maggie Smith and it was the pride of

1192
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:48.300
Miss Jean Brody.

1193
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.440
She just turned 20.

1194
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:50.820
She was going to be one of the students.

1195
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.679
Can you imagine her doing the accent?

1196
00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:54.719
Are you doing it right now?

1197
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:00.719
Well, she's just so charming from going to work with this, isn't

1198
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:00.900
she?

1199
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.239
I know we're so positive about everything.

1200
00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:06.599
And like I said, she was horrid and drunk all the time. just a

1201
00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:09.420
wheelbarrow for coke and he used to slide it down the stoop down

1202
00:53:09.420 --> 00:53:12.539
the white studio for the only reason the 1st episode of Mind

1203
00:53:12.539 --> 00:53:16.019
Robbery is painted white is that it covers up all the fricking

1204
00:53:16.019 --> 00:53:21.659
powder all the... when he's flaring mono nostril because she burnt

1205
00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:22.739
the rest of her face off.

1206
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:24.900
Actually, she's really sweet.

1207
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:26.699
So I can't say any of that.

1208
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:27.719
She's really lovely.

1209
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:32.219
It's that right.

1210
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:37.139
I just want, I've just, you know, put a bit of chios hero into

1211
00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:37.380
this.

1212
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.420
Yeah, actually everyone is bloody lovely.

1213
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:40.800
Yeah, it makes you sick, doesn't it?

1214
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:42.900
too much more icing off the Christmas cake.

1215
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:45.539
But I mean, there's no one in this I dislike.

1216
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.519
The cast is fantastic in this.

1217
00:53:47.579 --> 00:53:47.760
Yeah.

1218
00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:50.940
Do you think she's an improvement over over Victoria?

1219
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:51.480
Not at all.

1220
00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:53.340
I think she's just fresh and new and different.

1221
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:54.420
I say nothing wrong.

1222
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.860
We should actually say cheers to Victoria and to Debbie and say

1223
00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:01.199
look, I actually don't think she's as bad as everybody likes to

1224
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:01.559
maintain.

1225
00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:03.360
Repetition, repetition.

1226
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:05.699
Lazy, lazy producers, lazy script editors.

1227
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.719
She gets a great new rush when Derek Sherman comes in and she

1228
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:12.179
actually sits there and says, I've been whining all this year

1229
00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:15.539
because it's been bloody awful and we keep getting dumped into the

1230
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:16.800
same awful situation.

1231
00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:18.179
I'm only a little girl.

1232
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:21.599
Still a little girl now, and it's nothing great's happening.

1233
00:54:21.659 --> 00:54:23.820
And I'm like her to say, and you did this to your granddaughter

1234
00:54:23.820 --> 00:54:25.559
and you're doing it to me and you know what?

1235
00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:26.519
You can bugger off.

1236
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:28.739
It's a great way to end it.

1237
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:30.900
Yeah, she does act really well in that.

1238
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:31.800
She's fine.

1239
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:33.960
There's nothing wrong with Debbie's performances at all.

1240
00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:36.599
She's a good little actress in all of these shows and she's been

1241
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.780
given a bad truth by fandom, you know, in the intervening years.

1242
00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:43.559
And something that I think really becomes clear, in theory from

1243
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:43.920
the deep.

1244
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:47.639
Well, we're sort of saying goodbye to Victoria is really all the

1245
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:50.460
way through all Victoria has been looking for has been a new

1246
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:51.000
family.

1247
00:54:51.059 --> 00:54:51.480
Exactly.

1248
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:55.019
And all the Dr. and Jamie did was to pull a bloody pants down

1249
00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:57.480
before they left the TARDIS every damn story.

1250
00:54:57.539 --> 00:54:59.579
That's outrageous, isn't it?

1251
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:00.179
But they did.

1252
00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:02.639
No, no, they really did.

1253
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:03.360
They really did.

1254
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:05.280
Diskirted the poor woman every time, you know.

1255
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:06.719
And you said you can all pick her off.

1256
00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:08.940
In most stories this season, she'd find...

1257
00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:10.559
That's not what nice brothers and fathers do.

1258
00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:11.519
No, no, no.

1259
00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:14.280
She finds a familiar relationship with someone.

1260
00:55:14.340 --> 00:55:16.800
Like, she's like a little sister with Tommy.

1261
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:19.440
She will forget.

1262
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:22.800
She watches the family relationship of the Travers in the weather

1263
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:23.699
failure.

1264
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:27.719
And then in this, you know, she sees an opportunity to have that

1265
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:28.800
familiar relationship.

1266
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:32.940
That was cruelly torn away from her when we 1st meet her and she's

1267
00:55:32.940 --> 00:55:34.800
been incredibly strong the rest of the time.

1268
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.840
You know, yes, she does scream when she gets scared.

1269
00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:41.880
But it's a wonder she hasn't had a complete nervous breakdown by

1270
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:42.300
those points.

1271
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:45.119
It's a great testament to the character.

1272
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:50.099
And unlike, say, the character of Nissa much later on, where due

1273
00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:53.880
to the nature of the program, they never really harped back to the

1274
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:55.980
fact that she'd been through this massive trauma.

1275
00:55:56.039 --> 00:55:58.199
It's always just under the surface with Victoria.

1276
00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:01.920
You can see in Debbie Watling's performance that she's kind of

1277
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:04.800
just holding it together, especially in enemy of the world, where

1278
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:07.199
you know, she tries to be all happy and, oh, we had this pudding

1279
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:08.039
and it was lovely.

1280
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:11.340
She's utterly crushed when Griffin turns around and tells her what

1281
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:12.780
a stupid idea that is.

1282
00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:17.219
Because because she's looking for that familial relationship and

1283
00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:17.940
you know, nice point.

1284
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.280
She was friends with all the servants.

1285
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:21.599
Griffin's a servant.

1286
00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:23.880
She tries to set up a friendship with him and just gets totally

1287
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:24.599
rebuffed.

1288
00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:28.320
And here she meets 2 wonderful people who are like, actually, yeah

1289
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:29.699
we could do with a daughter figure.

1290
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:30.780
Please come and live with us.

1291
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:34.739
I actually think that they look somewhat surprised and horrified

1292
00:56:34.739 --> 00:56:36.900
but she's decided...

1293
00:56:37.860 --> 00:56:42.059
It's like I'm pretty rudimentarily and horribly, horribly, isn't

1294
00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:42.239
it?

1295
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:43.860
It does kind of just, oh, okay.

1296
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:46.380
No, I think Maggie Harris is going to have a quiet word with her

1297
00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:50.280
husband later when Victoria leaves the room and says, you know

1298
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:53.280
can't we put her out with a solo being this upcoming Wednesday?

1299
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:57.059
I look, I think I think it's very nice of you.

1300
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.820
It's very sweet if you say such nice things about Victoria.

1301
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:03.480
I actually think that she's vastly thinner as a character than

1302
00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:07.980
we've had before and she's a bit forgettable.

1303
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:13.199
And she does have moments of charm, but I was a bit sick of her by

1304
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:13.619
the end.

1305
00:57:13.619 --> 00:57:17.159
And I have to say she is redeemed by being given some good

1306
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:21.360
material in fury from the D, but it is a relief, I think, when

1307
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.440
Wendy comes along.

1308
00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:27.719
I certainly think Wendy is far better cake and 4 months for it.

1309
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:30.719
All this stuff I'm getting from Victoria's performance of

1310
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:33.059
Victoria's characterisation is coming from Deborah Watley.

1311
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:36.719
And I think Deborah Watling, possibly more than anyone else in

1312
00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:41.820
Doctor Who, takes a character who is very thin on paper and really

1313
00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:43.739
tries to flesh her out.

1314
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:45.900
The success of Victoria is not in the scripting.

1315
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:47.579
It is in the performance.

1316
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:51.420
It just seems to me that the writers overall are really interested

1317
00:57:51.420 --> 00:57:53.099
in giving her a character very much.

1318
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:53.820
Yeah.

1319
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:54.059
Yeah.

1320
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:56.880
And, and, you know, putting her in that stupid frock into the

1321
00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:01.739
sidemen, it tells you right away that we're only really very, very

1322
00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:04.440
vaguely invested in the premise of what she is.

1323
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:08.039
She really just serves a plot function and she's there to be

1324
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:09.179
menaced by monsters.

1325
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:13.619
And she does that admirably well, but she's not very interesting

1326
00:58:13.619 --> 00:58:14.820
as a person, I think.

1327
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:16.440
However, nowadays...

1328
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:19.139
Waddling is immensely interesting.

1329
00:58:19.139 --> 00:58:21.599
Whenever you say you're recommended to talking because she's

1330
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:22.320
really out there.

1331
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:24.480
She's really hilarious.

1332
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:28.619
Yeah, she's very she's open and funny about what happened during

1333
00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:29.579
her time on the show.

1334
00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:31.559
She's come back to do big finish.

1335
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:32.699
Yes she does.

1336
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.480
She's done an excellent big finish with Colin Baker, catching up

1337
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:39.539
with Victoria in the 80s where she's an anti-nuclear energy

1338
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:40.320
campaigner.

1339
00:58:40.380 --> 00:58:41.699
Really?

1340
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.760
And yeah, she and Colin Baker actually bounced really well off

1341
00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:45.420
each other.

1342
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.519
And of course, when she gets to meet Perry, Perry.

1343
00:58:47.579 --> 00:58:49.559
He's like, oh, so did you know Jamie?

1344
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:52.440
It's really well done.

1345
00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:53.460
It's called Power Play.

1346
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:54.000
Okay.

1347
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:57.780
And yeah, it's part of the big finish lost stories range because

1348
00:58:57.780 --> 00:59:00.179
apparently they were going to bring her back in one of the

1349
00:59:00.179 --> 00:59:01.619
proposed stories of season 23.

1350
00:59:01.739 --> 00:59:03.000
Oh God.

1351
00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:04.920
Good season 23 have been any worse.

1352
00:59:04.980 --> 00:59:05.880
Stop that.

1353
00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:06.179
Yes.

1354
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:06.599
Sorry.

1355
00:59:06.659 --> 00:59:08.460
Yes, it could.

1356
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:10.199
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

1357
00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:15.780
So back on Zoe, this is the shorter season of the show so far, I

1358
00:59:15.780 --> 00:59:18.719
think it's like 40 episodes and am I right?

1359
00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:20.159
I think, yes, yes.

1360
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:23.760
No, it didn't feel that short. at all.

1361
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:25.679
I think if more of them existed, it would feel longer.

1362
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:26.579
Shorter.

1363
00:59:26.579 --> 00:59:27.719
Shorter. one of those.

1364
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.000
I mean, all these sort of patterns, 6 parters and things.

1365
00:59:30.059 --> 00:59:32.760
But one of the things that they do to kind of make up the numbers

1366
00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.260
is they have a repeat of evil of the Daleks at the end of the

1367
00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:37.559
season.

1368
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:41.400
So this season ends with the same story that the previous season

1369
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:46.920
had ended on and they actually just in the most amazingly bizarre

1370
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:47.340
twist.

1371
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:50.460
They give it an inseason explanation.

1372
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:55.440
And so the doctor, Zoe stows aboard the TARDIS and before the

1373
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:58.679
doctor agrees to take her away, he says, well, I'll have to show

1374
00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:00.300
you the kind of thing that you're in for.

1375
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:04.380
And then he mentally projects onto the Tartar scanner.

1376
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.340
The evil of the Daleks, the absence of evil of the Daleks.

1377
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:13.199
And we'll find next episode of the podcast and the 1st episode of

1378
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:14.099
season six.

1379
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:19.380
The doctor arrives on a Mysterious Planet, and he's exhausted from

1380
01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:25.440
the, the, uh, the adverts thing, all those... very strange.

1381
01:00:25.500 --> 01:00:29.699
Not only that, but when they showed episode one the following week

1382
01:00:29.699 --> 01:00:31.380
over the 1st scene.

1383
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.159
There was a little voiceover by Patrick and Wendy.

1384
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:35.880
Oh, really?

1385
01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:38.159
And sort of saying, oh, doctor, where are we?

1386
01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:40.980
Well, so, this is London in 1966.

1387
01:00:41.219 --> 01:00:43.380
And the tartness has just been stolen.

1388
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:44.219
Let's watch.

1389
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:44.880
Wow.

1390
01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:46.320
That's spectacular.

1391
01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:48.659
So it's not really a repeat, is it?

1392
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:52.440
It actually does fit into the continuity at that point. diagetic.

1393
01:00:52.500 --> 01:00:54.539
As Carol would say.

1394
01:00:55.559 --> 01:01:01.019
Right, so I suppose it's time to get onto our Jenny Laird awards

1395
01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:03.179
for most puzzling creative choice.

1396
01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:07.679
My genetic letter awards always sort of really fairly obvious.

1397
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:11.639
And I think I've laboured this year, what I think the most

1398
01:01:11.639 --> 01:01:13.320
puzzling creative choice is.

1399
01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:17.340
Richard said over and over again that, you know, the show's being

1400
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:23.219
prepared for syndication in America and so everything gets sort of

1401
01:01:23.219 --> 01:01:27.599
homogenised. us the 60s way of doing that. this couple of years

1402
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:28.500
for 60s, yeah.

1403
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:32.340
Yeah, and but for me, it just, it really just makes a terrible

1404
01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:35.519
television and I think they finally get it right towards the end

1405
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:39.000
and they, they do that by injecting more human elements.

1406
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:43.380
But basically what I'm talking about is just the relentless parade

1407
01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:44.760
of bases under siege.

1408
01:01:44.820 --> 01:01:49.440
We've had one story that doesn't fit that mould this year and

1409
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.480
essentially everything else has been the same.

1410
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:57.179
And just the incredible laziness with which the monsters are

1411
01:01:57.179 --> 01:01:57.719
conceived.

1412
01:01:57.780 --> 01:02:01.679
So there's not really anything beyond the monsters, then it's a

1413
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:03.179
different kind of outfit this week.

1414
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.840
If you think about the way monsters work now, do you know what I

1415
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:07.019
mean?

1416
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:10.860
They tend to have a hawk or a special ability or some kind of

1417
01:02:10.860 --> 01:02:12.599
thematic resonance to them.

1418
01:02:12.659 --> 01:02:17.880
Whereas these are just, you know, scales fur or, you know, silver

1419
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:18.420
vinyl.

1420
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:22.980
And it is just incredibly lazy and I think it makes this season a

1421
01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:24.119
bit of a slog.

1422
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:26.639
There you go. fair enough.

1423
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:32.159
I think my Jenny would the most puzzling creative choice. would be

1424
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:34.019
for Victor Pemberton.

1425
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:38.579
Who I think is, he's a great asset to the show, but what it is for

1426
01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:44.579
me is the doctor, Jamie and Victoria's lack of involvement in the

1427
01:02:44.579 --> 01:02:49.079
plot of Fury from the Deep. and their reactionary nature in it.

1428
01:02:49.139 --> 01:02:52.920
Now, I haven't heard the slide, but I think it is highly likely

1429
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:57.480
that it relates back to it was an external story brought in, but I

1430
01:02:57.480 --> 01:02:59.460
just think they could have been more involved with the plot.

1431
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:04.199
Oh, look, I just think this season has progressively got better.

1432
01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:09.780
Oh, I'm putting it, but show and penitence feed equally. they've

1433
01:03:09.780 --> 01:03:10.559
taken stock.

1434
01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:13.559
They've looked at the things that there was nothing wrong with the

1435
01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.719
with the premise that in this lawyer was doing.

1436
01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:18.360
He was looking at marketing and trying to raise the ratings, but

1437
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:19.739
it ain't working.

1438
01:03:19.739 --> 01:03:22.619
Because the ratings were not growing, whatever you want to say.

1439
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.099
And it's only really now that you're getting shows that thank you

1440
01:03:26.099 --> 01:03:27.900
for getting back to David Wichica.

1441
01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:28.739
This was his last one.

1442
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:29.880
He said, you can all bugger off.

1443
01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:30.719
I'm disappearing somewhere.

1444
01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:33.239
Well, except for essence of death.

1445
01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:33.719
Iish.

1446
01:03:33.780 --> 01:03:34.679
I-ish.

1447
01:03:34.739 --> 01:03:35.460
He doesn't complete it.

1448
01:03:35.579 --> 01:03:38.460
Yeah, because it was you on time, all the rest of it.

1449
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:39.420
Hello, Mac Hulk.

1450
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:40.679
Looking forward to you coming in.

1451
01:03:40.739 --> 01:03:43.619
Yeah, kind of the inheritor of Whittaker.

1452
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:46.619
But I mean, maybe maybe we're biased, but I think consensus, you

1453
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:49.920
know, how it goes along. goes along certain rails, doesn't it?

1454
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:53.039
In the 80s, everyone thought that this was the season, the

1455
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:55.800
preceding season, the season, because they've got lots of monsters

1456
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:56.400
jumping about.

1457
01:03:56.460 --> 01:03:58.260
Last season 19 was good.

1458
01:03:58.260 --> 01:04:01.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah. was one of the greatest stories of all time.

1459
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:03.000
So he's the one with the greatest story.

1460
01:04:03.059 --> 01:04:04.079
They all tunnel.

1461
01:04:04.139 --> 01:04:06.420
That'll be an interesting if you have anywhere.

1462
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:08.340
I like to hear us say it.

1463
01:04:08.579 --> 01:04:14.280
Yeah, so if you ask me, what do I think was a puzzling decision, I

1464
01:04:14.280 --> 01:04:16.920
think it was simply to try and do what other shows have done

1465
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:17.219
before.

1466
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:20.880
It's not really a thing Batman so much as I think it said it

1467
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:21.119
before.

1468
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:23.219
It is trying to do the Avengers this year.

1469
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:23.760
You go, what?

1470
01:04:23.820 --> 01:04:26.639
It's totally different, but it's not in the way that it's

1471
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:28.860
formulaic and procedural land.

1472
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:31.679
It's the Avengers and they're going, I think that that's a

1473
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:34.619
puzzling choice because the reason Doctor Who's great.

1474
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:37.500
And I reckon we're kind of getting this now, the reason it's still

1475
01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:42.780
sort of going and it has, Sorry, folks out there, but it's still

1476
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:47.159
getting publicity and still honoured by the press and by the

1477
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:52.139
public is because of what Russell did in the 1st few years. to

1478
01:04:52.139 --> 01:04:56.820
quote Derek show and it's getting on my tips. the modern series.

1479
01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:01.440
It is because it's indulgent and it's a little bit messy and it's

1480
01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:03.300
a big vanglorious in the current writing.

1481
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:05.639
And I think Doctor Who in this year is doing the same kind of

1482
01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:06.599
thing for different reasons.

1483
01:05:06.659 --> 01:05:11.280
It was amazing in the beginning because it had a gay Jewish 26

1484
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:16.860
year old woman starting a show with a gay Asian.

1485
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:19.019
Yeah, it already came out later in life.

1486
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:19.619
Did she?

1487
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:20.400
Yeah, yeah, she did.

1488
01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:21.539
Why did no one tell me?

1489
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.260
Did you know?

1490
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.780
No, she was really quite open by the time she was doing rock

1491
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.800
follies in the 70s.

1492
01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:26.579
She was she was out.

1493
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:27.000
Yeah.

1494
01:05:27.059 --> 01:05:27.480
Wow.

1495
01:05:27.539 --> 01:05:28.019
Yeah.

1496
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:32.340
So, and then you've got, and you had a gay Asian director and an

1497
01:05:32.340 --> 01:05:33.480
Australian writer.

1498
01:05:33.539 --> 01:05:34.739
Right, for the 1st one.

1499
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.179
Thank you, Anthony Copen.

1500
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:38.400
So, you know, it was really progressive right in the day.

1501
01:05:38.460 --> 01:05:41.280
They've forgotten by this stage why it was amazing.

1502
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:44.579
And Patty's going, come on, I liked it for the reasons that you

1503
01:05:44.579 --> 01:05:46.079
were doing things that we didn't expect.

1504
01:05:46.139 --> 01:05:51.480
BBC was inventive and seen as the go-to for new surprises.

1505
01:05:51.539 --> 01:05:54.119
And now it's just trying to do what other people do for the sake

1506
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:54.599
of success.

1507
01:05:54.659 --> 01:05:57.119
It's like the suits are coming, just the same thing that happened

1508
01:05:57.119 --> 01:05:59.340
to Hollywood in the 70s and April 80s.

1509
01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:02.099
As you know, the suits take over until you had to make a show.

1510
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:03.360
No, no, no, no, no.

1511
01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:04.260
You make a show.

1512
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:08.099
It took someone of Sherwin's, you know.

1513
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:10.800
I'm sure Sherman's guttural ability.

1514
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:12.840
I wanted to go a little further down the anatomy there.

1515
01:06:12.900 --> 01:06:16.619
But to say, you know, and he's really offensive to a lot of people

1516
01:06:16.619 --> 01:06:19.320
and he was at the time when he's even more so now, and I love him

1517
01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:23.219
for it, but just saying, no, this is completely bollocks, you know

1518
01:06:23.219 --> 01:06:25.980
go with your gut instinct, have some taste and intelligence.

1519
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:27.239
So it's getting there now.

1520
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:32.460
So I'd say my my jinny leg was in as Lloyd's decisions back in the

1521
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:32.639
day.

1522
01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:33.840
Don't, don't.

1523
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.119
I think that's the same as mine, isn't it, really, essentially?

1524
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:40.500
Well, that idea that Doctor Who went from being a show about

1525
01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:43.440
exploration of a show that could do anything at all, and a show

1526
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:47.099
that, but missed, you know, nearly as frequently as it hit, you

1527
01:06:47.099 --> 01:06:50.880
know, like the, there are turkeys in the heart and all era on the

1528
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:51.119
earth.

1529
01:06:51.179 --> 01:06:55.800
But they're trying to do something that has real ambition, whereas

1530
01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:58.739
this is settled into a groove and just a sort of depressing

1531
01:06:58.739 --> 01:07:00.780
xenophobic kind of groove as well.

1532
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:04.619
I hate the show.

1533
01:07:05.460 --> 01:07:07.679
Let's do another podcast.

1534
01:07:10.739 --> 01:07:14.519
Well, we've been moving hastily onto our recommendations.

1535
01:07:14.579 --> 01:07:16.199
For me, I mentioned them earlier.

1536
01:07:16.260 --> 01:07:24.179
I'm going to recommend, is Skinner's animations, revolving around

1537
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:27.420
the wheel in space and leather fear.

1538
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:28.920
Yeah, she's done a few.

1539
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:30.539
So we'll put those up on our website.

1540
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.760
That's my recommendation related to this season.

1541
01:07:32.820 --> 01:07:36.239
Well, people might not know this about me, but I'm actually a

1542
01:07:36.239 --> 01:07:39.659
little bit of a Doctor Who geek and I know, you know, like I'm

1543
01:07:39.659 --> 01:07:41.820
interested in the minutiae of Doctor Who.

1544
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:44.639
I have the podcast where I talk to some of my friends about it.

1545
01:07:44.699 --> 01:07:46.739
Shock and awe.

1546
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:47.639
It is a bit of thing.

1547
01:07:47.699 --> 01:07:52.079
And one of the resources that I've used and, you know, ranging

1548
01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:54.960
from, oh, what else is that guy been in?

1549
01:07:55.019 --> 01:07:58.500
Or, you know, even, you know, preparing for the podcast, which

1550
01:07:58.500 --> 01:08:01.559
it's hard to believe from the finished product, but I actually

1551
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:02.400
kind of do that.

1552
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:05.880
Um, is wikia.com.

1553
01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:06.420
Do you know that?

1554
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:11.280
It's like a, a group of websites that just sort of rapid fans

1555
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:15.119
create a little subdomain and this one's hardest.wikia.com.

1556
01:08:15.179 --> 01:08:17.520
I think I've heard about that on the electric internet.

1557
01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:19.140
Yes, and it has.

1558
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:21.960
It's a website on the internet.

1559
01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:27.600
And it has all of this sort of terrifying information about all of

1560
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:31.619
the sort of history of Doctor Who and things and audios and books

1561
01:08:31.619 --> 01:08:33.840
and things that I'm just never going to bother to read.

1562
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:36.840
Um, and it's it's really interesting.

1563
01:08:36.899 --> 01:08:39.720
It's got lots and lots of information and they have an app as

1564
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:39.960
well.

1565
01:08:40.020 --> 01:08:43.319
There's an app for it, which is quite well designed and it will

1566
01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:48.359
send the pictures and texts from the website, your electric

1567
01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:49.020
telephone.

1568
01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:53.939
It's handy and can be used and all cerossover network device.

1569
01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:58.619
You can use it at the bus stop if you're, you know, uncertain of

1570
01:08:58.619 --> 01:09:04.020
Mel's last name, for instance, or Palister, isn't it?

1571
01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:11.100
Or how many episodes in the Massacre in 28?

1572
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:14.579
So I can recommend that and I'll put links to it in the show

1573
01:09:14.579 --> 01:09:15.060
notes.

1574
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:17.340
Yay.

1575
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:18.539
Do you have a recommendation?

1576
01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:22.680
Uh, Penderton's 2 from the D. I keep saying just go back to the

1577
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:23.460
target novels.

1578
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:27.899
I know, click, click, same record, but yeah, again, we're watching

1579
01:09:27.899 --> 01:09:30.060
these things in these are different shows that we're actually

1580
01:09:30.060 --> 01:09:31.319
interpreting on this podcast.

1581
01:09:31.380 --> 01:09:34.619
My go to is still the target models and then the audio.

1582
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:37.680
So my interpretation of the shows is actually radically different

1583
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:39.060
from yours from both of you.

1584
01:09:39.119 --> 01:09:39.720
Yes.

1585
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:42.840
So we are we're watching the same show in different ways.

1586
01:09:43.859 --> 01:09:47.100
I don't understand why they say that novels are not more widely

1587
01:09:47.100 --> 01:09:47.640
available.

1588
01:09:47.699 --> 01:09:52.020
There are quite a lot of them as e-books on, um, yes, on...

1589
01:09:52.020 --> 01:09:54.359
Greed, children and adults.

1590
01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:55.619
Don't listen, read.

1591
01:09:55.680 --> 01:09:56.159
Yeah, yeah.

1592
01:09:56.220 --> 01:09:59.939
I mean, there are there are a lot of them available on Amazon. and

1593
01:09:59.939 --> 01:10:00.840
a lot of those audios.

1594
01:10:00.899 --> 01:10:03.180
No, as e-books.

1595
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:07.439
And a lot as audios, but by no means all of them.

1596
01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:09.359
And I just don't understand why they're not up.

1597
01:10:09.420 --> 01:10:13.199
Thankfully, the audiobooks are getting a new start next year

1598
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:16.920
because audio go, the arm of the BBC that we're releasing them

1599
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:20.220
which was a separate company and then the BBC bought them, but it

1600
01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:24.960
went under and but there's a new arrangement and more Doctor Who

1601
01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:28.079
target novelisation audiobooks will be being released from

1602
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:28.619
January.

1603
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:30.600
In fact, just this month.

1604
01:10:30.659 --> 01:10:34.020
They release Carnival of Monsters read by Katie Manning.

1605
01:10:34.020 --> 01:10:36.779
Oh, God.

1606
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:38.220
Does she do the chicken noises?

1607
01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:41.460
No, but she doesn't John impression, which is pretty good.

1608
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:42.300
It's good.

1609
01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:43.920
A Joe impression is amazing.

1610
01:10:44.039 --> 01:10:44.760
You should hear it.

1611
01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:46.800
Yeah, yeah, she's she's incredible.

1612
01:10:46.859 --> 01:10:48.119
Well, it is a different voice.

1613
01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:49.859
It is a different voice.

1614
01:10:49.859 --> 01:10:51.000
It's terrific.

1615
01:10:51.060 --> 01:10:52.500
Anyway, that's my other pickup.

1616
01:10:52.560 --> 01:10:53.520
Can I have two?

1617
01:10:53.579 --> 01:10:55.140
No, okay, forget I said.

1618
01:10:55.260 --> 01:10:58.260
So before we finish up.

1619
01:10:58.319 --> 01:10:59.579
We had a competition.

1620
01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:01.140
Hooray.

1621
01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:01.979
Oh, that's right.

1622
01:11:01.979 --> 01:11:06.180
We've been swamped with entry. entry.

1623
01:11:06.300 --> 01:11:06.899
So many.

1624
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:07.979
Yeah, okay, one.

1625
01:11:09.060 --> 01:11:14.039
And I take that on myself.

1626
01:11:14.100 --> 01:11:17.100
I take that as feedback that I made the entry process too

1627
01:11:17.100 --> 01:11:17.880
complex.

1628
01:11:17.939 --> 01:11:20.579
So all you had to do to enter.

1629
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:26.220
We send some cyber mats to the wheel, to steal the banalium, and

1630
01:11:26.220 --> 01:11:29.100
then, you know, inspire the wheel people to use their laser, which

1631
01:11:29.100 --> 01:11:30.300
obviously relies on banana.

1632
01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:34.380
You had to blow up the star, credibly, preferably someone.

1633
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.300
And then you then you had to tweet about it.

1634
01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:41.340
Then post it on Facebook, then post it on Bebo and then post it on

1635
01:11:41.340 --> 01:11:41.760
Tumblr.

1636
01:11:41.819 --> 01:11:43.079
Not forgetting Weebo.

1637
01:11:43.140 --> 01:11:43.800
Weebo.

1638
01:11:43.859 --> 01:11:46.319
So, you know, we wanted people to go to China.

1639
01:11:46.500 --> 01:11:53.699
So for our ongoing competition, all you have to do is comment on

1640
01:11:53.699 --> 01:11:55.619
this episode on the website.

1641
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:57.600
Yep, flight to entirety.com.

1642
01:11:57.659 --> 01:11:58.140
That's all.

1643
01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:00.420
Just follow it through to the link, go down the bottom comment

1644
01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:03.119
even if you just say sponge, or splink.

1645
01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:05.939
And I mean, Splink is a very useful word.

1646
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:07.680
If Danny Pink could remember to blink.

1647
01:12:07.739 --> 01:12:09.060
We wouldn't be in this problem today.

1648
01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:09.779
Shelby with us.

1649
01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:12.539
But as it is, we should say the winner of our episode 14

1650
01:12:12.539 --> 01:12:15.659
competition goes by the handle of fear.

1651
01:12:15.779 --> 01:12:20.279
And so we'll hand, we'll be getting in touch with you about how

1652
01:12:20.279 --> 01:12:23.939
you would like your target novel delivered, and which target novel

1653
01:12:23.939 --> 01:12:25.439
you'd like from the selection we have available.

1654
01:12:25.500 --> 01:12:28.979
If you'd like to win a target novel of your very own, please

1655
01:12:28.979 --> 01:12:33.600
comment on the website and we'll be giving up to a total of 3 away

1656
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:35.399
each podcast.

1657
01:12:35.460 --> 01:12:39.060
And that will be announced on episode thing.

1658
01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:41.220
Thing, N +one.

1659
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:45.300
That will be announced on the 2nd episode covering season 6 of

1660
01:12:45.300 --> 01:12:46.140
Doctor Who.

1661
01:12:46.199 --> 01:12:49.439
Speaking of season 6, as we're about to be going into that.

1662
01:12:49.500 --> 01:12:51.180
Gentlemen, your story allocations.

1663
01:12:51.420 --> 01:12:58.020
So Nathan, your season 6 stories are the seeds of death and the

1664
01:12:58.020 --> 01:12:58.859
space pirates.

1665
01:12:58.979 --> 01:13:00.479
I don't know what to think about that.

1666
01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:01.439
I've never seen it.

1667
01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:04.380
Now the only Doctor Who story that I have no idea.

1668
01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:05.699
Hooray.

1669
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:08.699
Richard, you get 2 in a row.

1670
01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:09.960
You get the dominators.

1671
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:13.380
And the mind robber.

1672
01:13:13.739 --> 01:13:18.359
Meanwhile, I will be discussing the invasion and the crotons.

1673
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:22.560
And for the final story of the war games, because it's so big and

1674
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:25.319
so influential, we're just going to have a massive free for all on

1675
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:25.680
that one.

1676
01:13:25.739 --> 01:13:29.279
There's so much variation goes on in that story.

1677
01:13:41.340 --> 01:13:46.020
So we will be back next week. with our discussion of the

1678
01:13:46.020 --> 01:13:50.279
Dominators, the Mind Robber, and a story I can seem to be very

1679
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:52.560
important in Doctor Who's History, the invasion.

1680
01:13:52.619 --> 01:13:53.760
So until then, good night.

1681
01:13:53.819 --> 01:13:55.079
Good night.

1682
01:13:55.140 --> 01:13:55.800
Nice, good night.

1683
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:04.020
You've been listening to Flight 2 Entirety with Nathan Bottomill

1684
01:14:04.020 --> 01:14:05.399
Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1685
01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:08.699
This episode, Tuningly Cooks, was recorded on Sunday, the 30th of

1686
01:14:08.699 --> 01:14:09.239
May.

1687
01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:11.760
The next episode will be released on December the 14th.

1688
01:14:11.819 --> 01:14:13.020
You can find us online.

1689
01:14:13.020 --> 01:14:16.319
Flight to entirely.com, quite new entirely on Facebook and iTunes

1690
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:18.119
and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1691
01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:21.420
I tried activating the sexual rare supply once, but I was all out

1692
01:14:21.420 --> 01:14:22.140
of love.

1693
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:29.819
Oh, wait, there's something we'll record up.

1694
01:14:29.819 --> 01:14:31.859
Now it's full of coke, as usual.

1695
01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:34.260
Cake plates.

1696
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:35.460
Thank you.

1697
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:37.020
No, it's just using that.

1698
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:39.119
A coaster, like an animal.

1699
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:42.659
That should be in the pot.