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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:21:26

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that has always done its duty by Queen and Country.

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And look how well that's turned out.

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I'm Nathan.

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James.

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I'm Todd.

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And this is the last story I'll ever tell.

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The last story I'll ever tell about leaving FTE podcast.

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The last story I'll ever tell about leaving FTE podcast to go to the toilet between recording this episode in the last episode.

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So what's new with you, Richard?

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I'm Todd Shtick for this.

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Well, the surprise Daleks have taken a week to emerge from their sphere, but they're ready to join the cyberman in some trash talking and killing random people in bus cues.

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You still in there?

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But after 28 seasons of Doctor Who, we're confident that everything will be just fine.

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After all, this is an episode called Doomsday.

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He does go back to Round the Horn.

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We've been practising this story for something like 60 years now.

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It's all going to end, everything's falling apart, but no, we'll have a sing along and a bit of a panto at the end, and we'll all be fine, except someone has to die.

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I'm sorry, Todd, it's all time.

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I take it you don't particularly like this episode.

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No, no, we just I'm harking on from what we were saying last week about the parallels to the present, really.

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Go on.

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I don't know if I've told this story before, but we were watching the series in a bar at the Hilton Hotel in Sydney.

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Do you remember this, James?

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You were probably organising it.

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It wouldn't been to the Hilton.

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It would have been at...

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It was the Men's Hotel.

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It was the Menzies Hotel.

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You were quite right.

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The Men's Hotel.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, no, that would have been right, yeah.

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And I had a way of getting the episodes.

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I can't imagine what it was.

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And I had agreed to bring the episode with me.

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And I was expecting it to be a tear jerker, I think.

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And so I thought, well, I don't want to cry in front of all of these sweaty fan boys, so I'll watch it before and then bring it and watch it again in public with everyone.

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And of course, I balled my eyes out. when I watched it the 1st time and then again, you know, miaow hours later, I was like a giant snivelling mess in front of everyone at the at the bar.

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I think I was hiding behind the merchandise. to try trying to cover my shade.

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This time when I watched it, the moment that I really started crying was Jackie and Pete meeting up.

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You know, about halfway through the episode.

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There's about 20 minutes to go, and Jackie and Pete, both of whom have lost their parallel universe counterpart, husband and wife, meet up, and it's such a great scene because it's super rustly.

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It's so rustly.

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How rich.

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That's right.

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How very.

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I don't care about that.

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But there's also... anyone else.

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She says there was never anyone else, and you get a little shot of the doctor and Mikey kind of, they're not rolling their eyes.

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They do it a little bit more subtly than I remember.

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It's more subtle than I recall, too.

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Yeah, because I remember a panto boomtish.

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But it's lovely.

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It's so lovely.

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And, and, you know, Peter's already kind of rejected Rose as his daughter at the end of the age of steel, and he goes to reject Jackie as his wife, and he's already said to the doctor before in the episode, she's not my wife, and he starts to do it again, but he can't sustain it.

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They just run into each other's arms and kiss.

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And I think it is so beautiful.

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And I think this episode has, it's our 1st companion departure, you know, in the new series and they had to get it right.

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And I think they do.

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Well, in that moment, they do.

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You're not happy with the end?

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No, I'm talking about the fact that, dear Jackie, who is our companion?

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departing with a love story.

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Like Joe Grant?

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Yeah, right?

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So that's absolutely beautiful.

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And I think it's just amazing how it's not the real Pete and it's for him the real Jackie, but we accept it and it's all going to be fantastic for them and it's turned out really well after you think that she could be potentially under a lot of threat coming with the cybermen and having to, you know, I just love the fact when the doctor phones are aware, are you?

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Like a staircase and what do you see like a fire extinguisher?

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Like, it's so Jackie. a door Camille in this.

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And I just think it's a fantastic departure despite the fact that it's not, they don't have the history between them.

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There's a history between them in their own worlds, if you know what I mean.

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It's also wonderful that, yeah, like, who would have thought that she would have got that plot line and that that send off 2 seasons ago, that...

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No, James, you're quite right.

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You couldn't have seen it coming.

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From a joke character making, making comments about, oh, there's a strange man in my bedroom. anything could happen to, to, to this.

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This is fantastic. what they've done with that character.

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It's so beautiful.

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It's so beautiful.

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And I think I mentioned in one of the previous episodes that I just had a stone cold dead heart when it comes to the Sarah Jane Smith episode, if you record back to that.

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And in this, I can't recall if I really was crying when Rose was leaving.

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I can't remember if I was.

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And even now, I don't cry at that.

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It's this section with Jackie is the thing that gets me most upset.

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When I was a kid, we've talked about this before, Brandon said that he used to cry when the doctor regenerated, because you would never see the doctor again.

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But for me, it was kind of exciting and it was still the doctor.

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Oh, I did see the back of all of them, yeah.

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But I did...

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Richard, I agree with you.

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I didn't cry at any of those generations.

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I never had that because the 1st Doctor Who story I ever watched was the 5 Doctors.

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You knew that they'd be back.

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Especially the 1st doctor.

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Yeah.

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But in his various guys.

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Yes, wearing different faces.

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But I used to get upset when the companions left and I remember even, you know, in invasion of time being heartbroken that Leela was going.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, and my 1st companion departure, I think, was Sarah Jane Smith.

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Oh, absolutely heartbreaking.

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I remember going to bed and dreaming that it didn't happen and trying to come up with a new story that she'd come back in the next story.

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Like, that's how upset I was.

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I actually rage quit Doctor Who at the end of season 19 because the doctor had left Tegan behind at Heathrow Airport and I didn't tune in for Arc of Infinity because I was so cross.

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And it turned out she was back.

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What a stupid fool.

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You are.

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Well, I did miss Arc of Infinity.

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So there was a silver lining.

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Actually, no, I stand correct, Nathan, you were a very clever man.

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But here, what I think has to happen when the doctor leaves you.

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And we've said this before, that he has to leave you better than how he found you.

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So even though this is sort of the heartbreaking into a series long love story, he leaves Rose with her family now intact, that big missing piece of her family, her father's death when she was just a baby.

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The doctor kind of inadvertently fixes that.

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And Jackie, you know, in that little flat being lonely, not having much money.

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That gets fixed as well.

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And we get to see it too.

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Like the genius of having that scene, um, the Norway scene at the end, is we get to see that they're all together in a family.

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Even Mickey is living with them.

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And Jackie is still wearing sort of powder pink, but it's sort of glamorous powder pink rather than sort of powder pink active wear.

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It reminds me of Ramana's outfit from Destiny of the Daleks.

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It's lovely, isn't it?

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She looks great.

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And so the doctor leaves her in a parallel universe in a changed world where she has a role to play sort of fighting the forces of evil, but where she has an intact family.

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And I think that it's the best of the 3 companion departures.

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Oh, maybe it's the best of the 3 companion departures that Russell gets to do.

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Well, that's a big call because I would not have gone there with that at all.

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I think she's an ungrateful cow.

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She's got all of these things that you've just mentioned and all she can do is blub on about herself and her love life.

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Get over it, honey.

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You've got all these great things and you've had this time with the doctor move on.

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Oh, that's very Barbara Streisand.

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Sorry, I just got to, that just came to me.

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I didn't think I was going actually say it like that.

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Okay, I'm being overdramatic.

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Like, I think it actually is a really good departure in a sense that now when you are with the doctor.

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You never, ever want to leave and it's the best thing ever.

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And we're not going to kill you off.

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So how are we going to get around it?

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So that was Streisand talking about leaving Netherland when she talked about the young people who had been brought up by Mr. Jackson. get over yourselves.

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You got everything.

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We're lampshading.

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However, however, in the episode.

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It's fine. true.

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However, Richard's just going diverting for a moment.

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To the beginning of the episode.

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Rose confronts the Daleks and she talks about how she put the time vortex into the emperor and how...

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And it goes...

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What a badass she is.

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But all I, every time I watch that scene, all I can see is Billy Piper's big teeth.

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And it just, I'm just thinking, oh, please.

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Why do you think it's so terrifying?

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And they aren't even her biggest teeth.

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They're not so bigger still.

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Well, spoiler alert people.

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Yeah, just come back for the end of series four.

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I think that's a really big call to say this is the best command departure because I would argue that that next season would have the best companion departure.

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It is a very good companion departure next season where we'll get onto that.

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There is a problem at the heart of the show, I think, now that the doctor can control the TARDIS and that we see him coming back to Earth all the time.

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And so there is no reason why she should ever leave.

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She wants to stay.

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We have that moment at the beginning of last week's episode where Jackie imagines rose on a planet somewhere.

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Some nameless woman.

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Yeah, in the market. completely changed.

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She's not Rose Tyler.

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Yeah.

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Some old bent.

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She does get to be Rose Tyler at the end.

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She gets to stay Rose Tyler.

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She sees her as Barbara wins it, doesn't it?

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Rose Tyler Earth defence.

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Well, she gets to be a better version of herself and having a better life and she doesn't get to travel with the doctor, but the payoff is, you know, like he doesn't leave her tragic and broken.

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He leaves her with a family who love her.

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And again, maybe at the end, the moment that I tear up his Camille running to her, you know, because she knows what Rose has lost.

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I just think that is so beautiful and so she's going to be okay.

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Agreed.

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Totally agree.

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Billy Piper over these 2 seasons is just phenomenal.

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And in all seriousness, I just think she's a tremendous actress and she sells all of that stuff at the end, leaving the doctor with the tears.

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It is, I think, an extraordinary performance in all serious.

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That's the reason it's still here.

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Yeah, I think so.

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I absolutely think so.

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She's the Barbara of our generation.

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No one's going to say she's Sarah Jane Smith, but yes, you're right.

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She is that glue at the beginning of the series that people really turned in full.

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I think it's extraordinary.

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And I do think that it was brave of Russell and Wright of Russell to give her more sort of personal characteristics than just shop girl who travels with the doctor.

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And we've been making fun of Rose for being a selfish cow. an ungrateful cow for quite a few episodes now, but that was great.

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You know, she's just a flawed person.

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And she's capable of great kindness.

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There are lots and lots of moments where she steps forward to comfort someone who is in distress.

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She is basically supposed to be a teenager.

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Yeah, in her early 20s.

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Yeah, and that's true to a character to the character of someone of that age that they do focus on themselves a lot more than, say, a character like Donna later who has a lot more going on.

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I think too, there is that the kind of love affair that you have in your 20s, you know, which is all consuming and nothing really exists outside it and she really has that with the doctor.

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We've had quite a bit of Shakespeare in this, haven't we, from Romeo and Juliet, which is the romance you're talking about to Ludic doing is Richard the 3rd stopping, but stuck in a bath chair.

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Yeah.

197
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There's quite some classical themes in this story too, aren't there?

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The grand parking.

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Yeah, in fact, you know, we've gone straight to This is our 1st topic without actually really discussing much of the plot and part of the reason is there isn't.

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There really is much of a plot.

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Because there's even less than there was last week and there doesn't need to be.

202
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Exactly.

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It is, in fact, a character driven piece.

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It's about interaction.

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And her reaction at Jackie and Pete.

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Their conversation is that one shot of rose in the middle of that conversation.

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She cross?

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No, no, no, where she's actually like, just the look that Billy gives and possibly the way it's been directed by Graham Harper.

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It's just a beautiful moment that she wants her parents to get back together.

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And you're quite right.

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Her departure, I think, is beautifully handled.

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Jackie's departure is beautifully handled, and the other person departing, of course, is Mickey, and it's just so telling the growth in that character.

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I just love the fact that when the Daleks say the female's heartbeat has increased and he just says, oh, yeah, telling me about it.

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It's just wickedly wonderful.

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Like he's just so good in this.

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She tells him too that he's the bravest man she's ever met and he's gone from being, you know, like pissing himself at being captured by the autons in the very 1st episode.

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It's it's wonderful.

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I really, really like that.

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And I sort of alluded to it last week where Rose and Mickey get the chance to reconcile and we see them.

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00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:04.620
I don't think they're a couple at the end at all.

221
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:06.480
No, then I don't feel that either.

222
00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.340
Eventually he ends up with Martha Jones.

223
00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:15.480
Yeah, but they're they're living in that big giant house with mum and dad, and I think that that is really lovely.

224
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:16.860
But they're equals.

225
00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.399
He's not the puppy dog or her little thing to look after.

226
00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:23.340
He is as good as she is.

227
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:32.580
And when he goes to get that gun, the whole dalek situation, and he's the one that pushes on the genesis.

228
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.799
I love the fact that he's the one rather than her.

229
00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:40.620
I mean, we get the flashback to her, but he's as much important as what she is because he's travelled through time as well.

230
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:48.480
And I just like that so much, even though the focus is obviously not on Mickey, but there's all these moments with him in the background.

231
00:16:48.539 --> 00:16:50.759
You still get a Mickey the idiot moment.

232
00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:55.620
We still have to remember who he is when he falls on the genital arc, whatever the thing is.

233
00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:58.320
Although the doctor does say the big rice maker.

234
00:16:58.379 --> 00:16:58.620
Yes.

235
00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:03.360
That's right I mean, the doctor does say, look, they would have blown up the sun in order to get in there.

236
00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:09.660
So, you know, it is him being clumsy again, but it's a sort of fortunate clumsiness.

237
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:11.700
No one berates him for being an idiot.

238
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:12.960
Yeah.

239
00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:17.279
Yeah, he is really, really terrific, I think.

240
00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:29.819
You know, the idea of having the Daleks and the same men bachelor each other is not, is not new.

241
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:31.500
Of course not.

242
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:32.940
Every fanboy.

243
00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:33.839
No, no, no, no.

244
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:37.500
Todd has exercise book's full of drawings of it.

245
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.220
What do you mean drawings?

246
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.440
I've written stories about that when I was.

247
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.279
Of course, of course.

248
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.920
The Daleks and the Siemens turned up at the end of episode one.

249
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:45.960
I mean, I mean, in an official sense.

250
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:51.599
The BBC actually made inquiries to the Terry Nation Estate in 1967.

251
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:52.500
Really?

252
00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:54.119
And they were told no.

253
00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:57.539
And Terry Nation to turn around and told them to go themselves.

254
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.079
There's only one Helen Lawson in this production.

255
00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:02.339
Very Valley of the Dolls, yes.

256
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:08.579
But every fanboy, going back to whenever, has always wanted the Daleks and the Simon in the one story.

257
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.039
And besides the 5 doctors would never really had it.

258
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.660
And to have them here, and to think coming into this, they're going to have an alliance and it's going to be impossible.

259
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:20.819
But then when it's that bitch scene from, I'm not going to say from hell, it's from heaven.

260
00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:23.940
Because the dialogue in that is just so...

261
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.339
It's so dynasty.

262
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.980
But, you know, in Dalek, we have a cyberhead.

263
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:29.940
And it goes back.

264
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:36.779
There's about 5 stories going back where you've at least had an element of them, even if it's just flashbacks of they've been teasing us.

265
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.619
Yeah, they had been sprinkling it through the time stream, haven't they?

266
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:41.460
It is.

267
00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:42.180
It's Clara.

268
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.440
It's that bloody Clara.

269
00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:44.519
Yeah, she would have done that.

270
00:18:44.579 --> 00:18:45.359
Bugger off.

271
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:46.619
She can't leave it alone.

272
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:50.279
Would you have predicted that the Daleks were so much better than the sidemen?

273
00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:55.079
I mean, if I had asked you in 2005 Daleks versus Sidemen, who would have won?

274
00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:57.180
I think they would have been more Joan Collins.

275
00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:01.079
I think we always knew I always I always would have thought the Daleks.

276
00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:10.619
Like, when the Dalek says we would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek, and you get to see the soldiers battling Cybermen, and the only way they can destroy them is by having a bazooka.

277
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:17.400
But then the Dalek then just exterminates the 2 side of men like with one shot and they've been trying to destroy them.

278
00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:24.779
It's like this hierarchy of death. hierarchy of of England versus Europe.

279
00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:27.480
The humans are down the bottom.

280
00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:32.819
The cybermen are like a big threat, but then the Daleks are again twice.

281
00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:33.420
A Belgium.

282
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:33.660
Yeah.

283
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.559
I'm doing some hand gestures. works very well on radio.

284
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.240
Sorry.

285
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:40.859
You've got excellent hands for radio.

286
00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:54.299
You know that this rarely for Doctor Who, this story actually outrated most of the the football matches that week.

287
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.559
Okay, because I guess people knew Billy was leaving.

288
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.180
Oh, you had lost the week before.

289
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.140
And they put them on the radio times cover.

290
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:09.359
They had 2 radio times covers, one with the psyche men and one with the Daleks holding footballs.

291
00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:11.519
I seem to remember that actually.

292
00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:13.140
What was the actual rating?

293
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:14.039
Eight point something?

294
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:14.819
8.22.

295
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:20.519
It's still an appreciation index of 89, which is one of the highest of joint highest.

296
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:24.240
Yes, but people will like any old thing.

297
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:29.759
I just like to shout out to the listeners of FTE at this point.

298
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.220
But in all seriousness.

299
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.980
I really enjoyed watching this episode.

300
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.140
Again, it improved for me.

301
00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:39.539
And you might say there's not much plot.

302
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:45.240
But I love the way he sets up this genesis art thing as this special thing and you're kind of going, oh, what is this genesis art thing, you know?

303
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:47.759
It can't be anything major.

304
00:20:47.819 --> 00:20:49.559
And then it's, you know, it's time or technology.

305
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.079
And I'm there in my head going, what do you mean it's time?

306
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:53.759
Because they make it look like a dalek, don't they?

307
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:54.900
I mean, it's sort of Dalek shade.

308
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.299
Well, that was the question when I was...

309
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.779
Yeah, why would they make a TARDIS thing look like Idyllic?

310
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:01.980
Oh, to hold darling?

311
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:05.880
But never in a 1000000 years did I think that it was going to be like bigger on the inside.

312
00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:09.000
That was the most simplest time lord technology.

313
00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:15.059
I'm thinking, oh, it's some, you know, the matrix or goodness knows what, but then it's, it's staring you right in the face.

314
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:19.319
It's the one thing that normal people know about time, Lord, technology, isn't it?

315
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:22.740
You know, they travel in time and their thing is bigger on the inside than the outside.

316
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:30.779
So the matrix or the transduction barrier or any of that kind of thing would have just been sort of too tiresome, I think, as time or technology.

317
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:32.099
That is absolutely perfect.

318
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:41.460
And it is Russell's approach to science fiction, which is here's some science fiction concepts that a normal person can understand, like the sphere last week.

319
00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:43.259
It is hilarious.

320
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:59.759
There's one really, I think it's a sort of shockingly bad moment where dialect sec, I think, and the Genesis Arc are up in the air above sort of stock footage of Canary Wharf, you know, like right slap bang in the middle of the shot.

321
00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:06.299
But it is a great reveal when it starts sort of coughing dialects up at sort of massive rates.

322
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:07.920
It is pretty amazing.

323
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:10.619
What do you think of this cult of Skyro business?

324
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:15.119
Oh, you know, like it's obviously something that he'll pick up later.

325
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.900
And we have had Daleks with names before, remember?

326
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.819
Way, way back in the beginning.

327
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:25.019
We've also had cyberpersons with names, but it's from the TV21 dialect comics.

328
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.960
They all had names in that because David Whittaker said they had to.

329
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:39.900
Oh, I was thinking of the, again, sort of the evil of the Daleks, where the human Daleks are called sort of alphabetia and gamma or whatever, and they have names and they play games and stuff.

330
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:53.400
I think it's actually quite good for Russell to kind of add to the mythology, like to bring in something about the Daleks, that nerds who've been watching the show forever and ever didn't know yet.

331
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:59.880
Again, at the time, I was there going, oh, I'm a big nerd from the show and we've never heard of this.

332
00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:09.059
What, this has never been any, anything, and at any time, this is just a magic McGuffin thing that you've pulled out of wherever, but I now totally agree.

333
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:17.700
I think it's fantastic to add to the mythology and to expand it and things will come into play later on that we can't see.

334
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:23.220
You know, Duoss was saying the same thing about Dav Ross's introduction in 75, 76.

335
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:25.019
But how did you feel about Torchwood?

336
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:27.059
Because I had exactly that same reaction.

337
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.960
This is annoying.

338
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:30.359
This doesn't fit, this can't be made to retrofit.

339
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:31.920
Yeah, where were they in the 70s?

340
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.200
were unit really so hapless.

341
00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:36.359
Really, that we didn't know.

342
00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.460
And if there were anti-doctor, why were they not active?

343
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:44.940
Well, I mean, they're a secret organisation and they're pro-British, so they would be hiding themselves from the UN.

344
00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:48.059
Yeah, so come on.

345
00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:51.299
All the stuff that was falling down through devil's armpit.

346
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.119
Surely, where did that all end up?

347
00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:55.619
They're sneaking around the stink.

348
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:56.039
Yes.

349
00:23:56.099 --> 00:23:58.079
They're actually different devils.

350
00:23:58.200 --> 00:23:58.920
They're the travellers.

351
00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:01.259
They're the gypsies in the caravans.

352
00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:03.960
They're biding their time, right?

353
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:11.759
They're just gathering all of this stuff that this moment in time, their moment has come and their doomsdays upon them.

354
00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:19.079
I guess, I mean, as one viewer, I have to say, put me off the concept of torchwood before I'd seen torchwood.

355
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:20.339
Just didn't really fit for me.

356
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.539
And you saw Torch to it.

357
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.700
And that put you off the concept of torchwood.

358
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.980
When are we doing that podcast now?

359
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:26.700
We're doing it now.

360
00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:49.019
I love the fact that when the cyber leader is destroyed, we suddenly get a new cyber leader to download and the black handlebars on the cyberhead, which is just important, since I'm a classic Doctor 2 series fan and one must have that.

361
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:54.480
I don't particularly like the end when they all get sucked back through into the void.

362
00:24:54.539 --> 00:24:57.839
So there's all these Daleks being sucked.

363
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:02.220
So the cybermen go through the cracks that they arrived through.

364
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.799
So they don't go through the void thing, I guess.

365
00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:06.599
I guess that's the reason.

366
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:12.960
But there may be budgetary reasons about not having their CG Cyberman models bouncing off the walls.

367
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:22.619
While they're in that room and they're hanging on to the magna clamps or whatever, and the Daleks sort of fly into the thing and they're bouncing off the walls.

368
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:25.559
I'm kind of thinking, like, what if one of them hits, Billy?

369
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:27.599
It didn't seem very dangerous.

370
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.559
Not even a scuff mark on the plaster board afterwards.

371
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:42.119
It's something that's never set well with me, the fact that the southern just sort of just go, we, and then they're gone, and then all the Daleks just go back through that particular point when they came out of the sphere.

372
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:43.619
I don't know.

373
00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:46.980
It makes for spectacle and I guess that's what you want.

374
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.319
You want something that you couldn't have seen before.

375
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:54.599
So I guess it's okay, but it is slightly, it's slightly odd, I think.

376
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:59.519
Well, I think if you had this album going through there, they'd be like rag dolls and it'd look really terrible.

377
00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:05.099
So all you can do is they go up and into their cracks. much easier to have lots of tiny little pepper pot shaped things.

378
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:07.079
This before HD.

379
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:10.380
They do have CG Cyberman, don't they?

380
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.000
I mean, when the ghosts turn into Cyberman, they're initially CG Cyberman.

381
00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:17.700
Yeah, I think they only had 10 costumes for the shoot.

382
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:19.259
So everything else you see in the street.

383
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:20.400
It's like doubled.

384
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:20.940
Yeah.

385
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:22.380
They do a great job of that.

386
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:33.119
Like they do an amazing job and that was always the thing with Doctor Who, you know, in terror of the Zygons, the doctor says to Broton, you know, isn't the planet a bit big for the 5 of you?

387
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:37.559
You know, there's only ever, there's only ever a small number of aliens.

388
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.019
And so the moment that we can have lots and lots of them.

389
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:50.819
Russell says that he wanted to recreate those big epic dalek battles that we imagined or read in the comics and stuff and now he can finally do it.

390
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.779
Thrill to witness Planet of the Daleks. as we shall soon.

391
00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:09.539
The other thing that perhaps doesn't sit particularly well with me in that scene, too, is is roses going to get sucked into that rift, and then Pete just magically appears at the right moment in the right spot to catch her.

392
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:14.579
And then he stands there for what seems like quite a bit of time without getting sucked in himself.

393
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.279
I just kind of think, how did you know to go to that point?

394
00:27:17.339 --> 00:27:19.380
Is that stupid of me or?

395
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:20.880
he's he's her dad.

396
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:25.799
He's her dad, of course, he's gonna know how to rescue her. 30 seconds earlier.

397
00:27:25.859 --> 00:27:28.500
He's saying she's your daughter, not mine.

398
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:29.579
Yeah, yeah.

399
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:34.259
But so he has to rescue her to make up for that so that he does become her dad.

400
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:35.519
Don't get me wrong.

401
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:49.380
No, it's an absolutely brilliant moment because those camera angles when from her point of view, from the doctor's point of view, when they're looking at each other and they're screaming and the camera's moving apart, like their points of view are moving apart as she goes into the void.

402
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:51.420
That's fantastic direction.

403
00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:54.480
And you actually think, 0 my goodness, she's actually going in there.

404
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.640
How are they going to get out of this?

405
00:27:56.700 --> 00:28:00.000
And they've said that she's going to die, you know, over and over again.

406
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:01.559
She said that she's going to die.

407
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:02.819
How she's saying she's going to die?

408
00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:03.599
She's dead.

409
00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:04.319
Well, yes.

410
00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:07.140
She only means her future acting computer.

411
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.299
And that's actually the saddest thing.

412
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:10.319
The most poignant thing for me.

413
00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:11.519
And yes, I had a little weep.

414
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:12.660
I hope you all did as well.

415
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.759
Yeah, omen here in this room.

416
00:28:14.819 --> 00:28:15.839
There was.

417
00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:17.099
There were 2 points.

418
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:23.519
Actually, the big one for me is the same with Todd when Camille and Sean had their moment together.

419
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:35.039
I thought, oh, if anyone who's lost a parent for one for reason or another is going to really be feeling that because this is about finding safety in an island that has been transgressed both from within and without.

420
00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:36.720
Have we mentioned Brexit this episode?

421
00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:38.460
I don't think we're about to.

422
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:39.900
I think we're about to.

423
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:48.119
But there is, again, that the cause of what is, that Russell does so well is what is our main defence.

424
00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:50.940
And he does it in a really nice way.

425
00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:03.660
It is still the primary family unit that you'll get every crypto fascist in every neoliberal right wing government saying, you know, we're fear for families first, but he says yes, many different shapes make up a family.

426
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.400
Well, and it's a weird family.

427
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:09.359
It's a family where the mother and father have both died at one point.

428
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:13.440
It's a strange lash up of a family.

429
00:29:13.500 --> 00:29:18.000
Cross-pollinating Mirror Universe Star Trek mashup family, isn't it?

430
00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:19.200
So it's wrong and bad.

431
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.599
And Mickey's part of that family as well.

432
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:23.099
So it's a created family.

433
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:30.420
I still feel badly for Mickey right at the end of this, the one I'm really, he is still the dog because, you know, he said, oh, you, oh, another member of the family.

434
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.380
Oh no, not me.

435
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:32.759
Not me.

436
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.839
And I thought, oh, oh, poor Mickey, he's still being sidelined.

437
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:38.759
It was the big as if moment.

438
00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:45.359
That is actually, she pranks him twice in that heartfelt final...

439
00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:47.160
Working in the shop.

440
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.619
I'm pregnant to Mickey.

441
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.759
It was honestly like the future of Sophie Aldred's career, wasn't it?

442
00:29:54.599 --> 00:30:00.779
In a lovely upper middle glass shot, folding scarves, with clean teeth.

443
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:07.920
So, Richard, you said that the Camille, Pete was one point that you cried.

444
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:08.700
What was that the time?

445
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:09.480
Got me.

446
00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:11.220
That just got me this time.

447
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:16.740
And the other one was, again, it's Billy just managing to make it happen.

448
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:27.900
Billy actually, no, it was standing on the beach waiting and then he appears and I thought, oh, no, I've never really cared for the doctor and rose coupling.

449
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:28.980
It never really worked for me.

450
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:35.039
It was always a little bit self-aggrandizing, if you like, or yeah, it was exclusionist.

451
00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:36.480
Yeah, not just being exclusive.

452
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:38.039
I was always Mickey in that relationship.

453
00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:42.660
I was, I was always there with an old thinking, actually, Noel's got, got the talent in this scene.

454
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.519
I'm really paying more attention to him.

455
00:30:44.579 --> 00:30:47.279
But yeah, it did work because they're both very, very good.

456
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:52.079
I'm just astonished at what a good director Graham Harper is.

457
00:30:52.140 --> 00:31:04.440
You don't tend to get those who can do terrific action and intimacy other than in really good cinema, which is why I mentioned Michael Powell last episode, who did Colonel Blimp, Deborah Carr.

458
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:13.259
We referenced Stark Materials, but does also reference the roles that Deborah Carr plays as the other women in Blimp's Light.

459
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:14.940
Anyway, you can see little nods to that.

460
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:21.960
When Russell writes these things, he always allows a little room for the quiet single fan person.

461
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:26.400
I won't say the lonely fan, but there probably is a reason that we all obsess over a TV show.

462
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:29.579
There might be something else missing from our lives as young people.

463
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.960
Oh, I do firmly believe that.

464
00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:42.599
It's no bad thing that, you know, we use things like this to replace that which is missing from our lives as children and I might just be not having the kind of friends that we want or living in a quiet life or having parents that are at work.

465
00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:46.619
But this show has been there for so many young people.

466
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:59.819
And when it does an emotional scene like this, it's not about what we're watching, it's about us as Russell and Mickey wanting to be a part of something lovely and big and warm and safe, never quite being there.

467
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:04.920
The doctor's alone in his little phone box, and so are we, and that's really why this works.

468
00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:07.200
And that's why I'm really grateful to Russell.

469
00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:17.039
And writers like him for understanding that small people, who are still inside all of us, need this connection to the bigger world and to find our own place in that world.

470
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:18.960
Quite right too.

471
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.839
I think she does say that, doesn't she?

472
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:23.279
He says that.

473
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.359
And she says that quite well.

474
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.559
Looking at my notes here.

475
00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:29.039
When she says, I love you, which I found quite affecting.

476
00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:35.640
And he says quite right to a line that I never really, at the time, liked, I kind of thought, because he's a narcissistic.

477
00:32:35.700 --> 00:32:38.640
It's a bit, it's been layout in Han.

478
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.680
Yeah, it's not.

479
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:41.279
It's yeah.

480
00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:45.240
But when he says that, and I suppose one last chance to say it, Rose Tyler.

481
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:48.359
And you don't get him saying, I love you.

482
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:50.039
But he was going to.

483
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:51.960
Yes, but I breathe a sigh of relief.

484
00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:57.960
Yeah, I think that might have been a little bit too much, but, I mean, it's definitely what he was going to say.

485
00:32:58.019 --> 00:32:59.940
I don't think that there's any question.

486
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.440
Have we seen him actually cry before?

487
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:03.240
Yeah Have we ever seen the doctor cry?

488
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:14.400
I don't think pertly cries when he leaves Joe. No, Eccleston sheds a tear when Jabe is no, before that, when Jabe is consoling him about...

489
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:20.880
Yeah, which I, again, at the time thought was absolutely incredible before she becomes a box of matches.

490
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:21.599
Yes exactly.

491
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:23.700
Oh, thank you, Richard.

492
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:30.900
But that is so great because it's a scene which is super, superhuman.

493
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.779
There's that wonderful moment where not wooden at all.

494
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.319
No, where Billy says, where Billy says she doesn't know what to say.

495
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:38.819
Like, after all this time, there they are.

496
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:39.900
They've got this limited time.

497
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:40.500
What am I going to say?

498
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:41.759
It's truthful, isn't it?

499
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:42.539
It's really truthful.

500
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.039
We would all be like that.

501
00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:47.700
There are jokes in the scene and all of that, but it is.

502
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:58.680
Can you imagine what if Olivia Coleman had played the rose character through all of this and she'd stood there for 2 years we'd had Olivia Coleman instead of Billy Piper and she'd stood there and she said, I've got nothing to say.

503
00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:00.299
We can reference her Oscar speech.

504
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.099
She would have found lost to say.

505
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:04.500
And it all would have been on the cutting room floor.

506
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:11.340
Such a shame he didn't put on his 3D glasses for that sake. would have added an extra level of gravitas to it.

507
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:12.840
You've nailed something there too.

508
00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:18.840
And maybe that's where we come back to the safety of how we live, is that there's always a wall. is always a shield.

509
00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:20.219
There's always a defence.

510
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:22.139
So when he says quite right too.

511
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:33.179
It's that very brittle, wildy and what Oscar Wilde uses it a lot in his plays as well to obviate true lachrymose emotionality, you know, to before it gets too sloppy.

512
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:34.320
They'll they'll throw that in.

513
00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:36.480
Yeah, I'm really uncomfortable with that line.

514
00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:42.780
It is sort of defensive as if the doctor's aware that he's not meant to say that sort of thing.

515
00:34:42.900 --> 00:34:45.659
It allows me to go back to my old life.

516
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:46.380
Yeah.

517
00:34:46.380 --> 00:34:47.699
So maybe that's okay.

518
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.099
But certainly he doesn't build.

519
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:51.599
He doesn't really learn, does he?

520
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:59.940
We talked earlier in this episode about crying at companion departures and now Russell has written one that's deliberately intended to make you do that.

521
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.019
And he's good at it.

522
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:01.920
He really is.

523
00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:10.739
I mean, I don't think that anyone writing terminus thought that we would care that he was leaving.

524
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:12.900
That was awful.

525
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:14.940
God, you had to bring our owl.

526
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.039
I'm just like, I'm still feeling I feel that ow.

527
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:18.659
Yeah, she's going to stay with the lepers.

528
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:20.699
Gee, that's going to end well isn't it?

529
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:26.280
But here, you know, he, Russell, watched the show the same way that we did.

530
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:29.400
And so he knew that that's what these scenes were for.

531
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:32.940
Don't leave her on a Blake 7 set with a lot of lepers.

532
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:34.679
That's not what you do.

533
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:36.960
You leave it with family.

534
00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:38.039
You leave it with family.

535
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:40.800
Yeah, better than how you found her.

536
00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:48.000
And that's why the I'm working in a shop joke works so well because if that had been true, that would have been absolutely shockingly terrible.

537
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:54.300
And so she pranks him by saying, actually, that my time with you had no effect at all.

538
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:55.500
And here I am working in a shop.

539
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:56.940
And he falls for it.

540
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:58.260
That's her bit of defence.

541
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.940
He falls with it because he's a snob.

542
00:36:00.059 --> 00:36:09.239
So if he'd actually been completely heart engaged, he'd go, oh, but, you know, you're so much more than that, but because he can't do that because he sees it as the same for things.

543
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:11.639
So, therefore, he has to be dissembling at all.

544
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:16.079
Patronising, that it's okay, instead of saying, as a normal person would or an engaged person.

545
00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:17.519
What the hell are you doing that for?

546
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:19.199
You've got so much more you can do now.

547
00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:20.699
You weren't happy then?

548
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:22.380
Why are you doing it to yourself now?

549
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:25.800
A normal person who engaged emotional person would say that.

550
00:36:25.860 --> 00:36:29.280
We know the doctor has a narcissistic thread to him.

551
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:39.300
Do you also think that he feels guilty because it's an accident that Rose ends up in the parallel universe, but it's not completely an accident because that's the doctor's plan.

552
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:45.360
And when he tells, yes, he allowed that going, I'm closing the wall and I'm staying here.

553
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.059
And he does it with no emotion at all.

554
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:52.739
Like, he absolutely can't bring himself to address what he's...

555
00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:53.400
Shields, Simpson.

556
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:53.940
Yeah, yeah.

557
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:59.280
Well, it's actually just 13 millimetres of plasterboard, but you know, it's enough to keep Billy's teeth out.

558
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:01.980
But what an affecting shot.

559
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:05.099
Like when they are on both sides of the ball.

560
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.079
Oh, it's absolutely brilliant.

561
00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:19.739
And the reason it's brilliant, and again, it's Russell taking a science fiction concept and making it comprehensible, they're just on 2 sides of a wall with no door between it, no way of interacting.

562
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:24.719
And Rose senses when the doctor is on the other side of the wall.

563
00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:26.460
Like she reacts.

564
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:37.739
She's up against the wall crying with her family behind her and the doctor goes up to the wall and listens and she reacts when he puts his ear to the wall.

565
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.719
So she can sense he's there.

566
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:43.559
And just having it 2 people on either side of a wall is perfect.

567
00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:45.900
That's what you need to see.

568
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:47.880
That's how you tell that story visually.

569
00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:53.280
We don't have to worry about science fiction nonsense about parallel universes.

570
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.460
We can see how completely separated they are from each other.

571
00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:58.320
I think it's absolutely extraordinary.

572
00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:03.539
And one of the most remarkable visual images of new who, I think, ever.

573
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.400
Just needs a crack in the wall.

574
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:07.079
Yeah, that'll come.

575
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.119
She'll be back.

576
00:38:09.539 --> 00:38:15.480
But the emotion of all of this throughout all these characters in this episode is what knits it all together.

577
00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:30.719
And even with Yvonne, you know, I did my duty for queen and country, her passionate and emotion overrides cyber control in that moment where she's up the top of the stairs as the cyberman and having that tear come out of the cyberman's tear hole.

578
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.219
It's now officially known.

579
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.500
Is that the weakest moment, though?

580
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:35.940
No, I like it.

581
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.519
I really didn't work for me then or now.

582
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.219
It's boldlerized, to my sense.

583
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:42.719
Also because the character herself.

584
00:38:42.780 --> 00:38:48.480
I know that we need to rescue the humanity in our human monsters and Russell's very good at doing that.

585
00:38:48.539 --> 00:39:01.139
But this is something new that we've never seen before with people, if you're cybertized, you're well and truly cybertized, and this manages to give a bit of, there's something in the human that can fight that.

586
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:02.099
I like that.

587
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:09.300
I think you have to give her some more interesting ending than just have her sawn up and turned into a cyberman.

588
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:19.559
Like, yes, she's a scary fascist imperialist, but there is that sympathy for the villain that I think the best Doctor Who often has.

589
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:25.679
And so giving her some role in defending the earth even after the Cyberman thing.

590
00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:33.539
And of course, she gets to be called Tracy Ann Cyberman from now, until forever, I think she's occasionally referred to herself that way on Twitter.

591
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:36.300
So it's a sort of enduring image.

592
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:54.179
And we said when we did Rise of the Cyberman that the one note that Russell said about how the Cyberman had to look was they had to have that teardrop hole because the whole point of the Cyberman is that they don't have emotions.

593
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:59.579
And so it was showing on their face that, well, they kind of do.

594
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:03.420
What about the shorter citizens that they put in the same size armour?

595
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:04.559
They need to peek out as well.

596
00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:06.300
That's what they...

597
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.699
Apparently that's what they were for back in too.

598
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:09.539
So, yeah.

599
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:22.440
I like to pay off with the doctor in the glasses.

600
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:24.239
Like, with all the void stuff.

601
00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:46.980
I like the fact that he's seeing all that as part of the plot and it's a subtle thing that, you know, people go on about Russell, not, uh, he just pulls elements out of nowhere to resolve things, but it's all, it's all in there, built up, worked in, and when it comes to the four, perhaps at the time when I was watching it, I was much more critical, but now I really, really like that.

602
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:48.960
Well, it's another mystery, isn't it?

603
00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:50.340
It's like what's in the sphere.

604
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.900
Like, why is he wearing these?

605
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:57.659
And none of the other characters seem to comment on why he's doing it, and then it becomes clear why he is.

606
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:05.340
And it is a marvellously sort of low tech kind of thing to do, but it pays into the sort of ultimate payoff.

607
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:17.880
When Russell talks about writing this, He says that he had this one image, which was a room with the 2 levers in it that open and close, the weight of the parallel universe.

608
00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:28.500
And that was the 1st thing that he kind of thought of, a little bit like the end of time where he's got those 2 chambers that someone has to be in at all times.

609
00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:33.000
And that was going to be central to the way that that story played out.

610
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:40.619
And I think that that is so simple and so well done.

611
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:44.219
And you know, he makes up the rules about the void.

612
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:49.139
You know, you get void stuff and it sucks you into the void for some reason and blah, blah, blah, whatever.

613
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:51.000
But it doesn't matter, I think.

614
00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:53.460
I think it is a good resolution.

615
00:41:53.639 --> 00:42:08.280
I think it's always interesting to hear about how a writer, what sparks the whole story, just those images suddenly from that, everything else hangs off that one set piece, which is really cool.

616
00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:08.820
I like that.

617
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:09.300
Yeah.

618
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:13.860
Well, you should mention Philip Pullman's his dark materials again.

619
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:27.840
We did talk about this before, but the 2 leads, spoiler alert. find themselves separated in parallel universes, and they can no longer cut through from one universe to another because of the damage that it will cause.

620
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:30.719
So it has, yes.

621
00:42:30.780 --> 00:42:33.840
So it has been completely lifted from that.

622
00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.340
But he was really pleased with that.

623
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:37.500
And he said, I nixed stuff all the time.

624
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:38.940
It's lovely that writers do that.

625
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:39.840
Writers have always done that.

626
00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:41.400
Robert Holmes, you know?

627
00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:43.260
Yeah, yeah, you know, Shakespearean's.

628
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:49.380
Didn't Philip Pullman write the forward to the writer's tale?

629
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.980
Peter Russell and basically said, thanks horrific.

630
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:53.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

631
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:55.019
Thieving, gypsy.

632
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.239
Like, I was really flattered.

633
00:42:57.300 --> 00:42:59.699
But this is basically his stock materials.

634
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:03.420
Like the basic concept of this story is that love story.

635
00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:23.579
So we also get the return of Drake in this episode and that is the moment where the doctor and Jackie are still upstairs with Yvonne and a whole bunch of Cyberman and the doctor says, you know, I prefer an emotion like hope.

636
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:26.219
He says that before Jake arrives.

637
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.699
So he's got a 6th sense that he's going to read the script.

638
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:36.960
But I like the fact that they're tying all the parallels world stuff in from earlier in the season.

639
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:40.559
It's great to see Jake back in that role.

640
00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:45.900
I love the fact that when they talk about who's the president, you know, a woman called Harriet Jones.

641
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:47.159
Watch out for her.

642
00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:48.420
Yeah, I love that.

643
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:48.960
I love that.

644
00:43:49.019 --> 00:43:54.300
But he does say something else, which is about the fact that it's been 3 years.

645
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:55.500
Yeah.

646
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:57.059
I'm not sure about that either.

647
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:58.199
That is sort of very strange.

648
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:05.099
So they sort of kidnap the doctor and take him to the parallel world where we see another version of Torchwood, which is all sort of broken down.

649
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:12.119
And the parallel world is under threat from global warming, which is going to sort of mean that they have to close the breach.

650
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:17.519
If there's a torchwood in the parallel world, then there is a doctor in the parallel world.

651
00:44:17.579 --> 00:44:18.719
Yes.

652
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.800
How about that?

653
00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:23.699
Because the doctor prompted the creation of torchwood.

654
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:28.860
And it was mentioned in Rise of the Cyberman at the party, someone.

655
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.440
I think Pete says to someone, how are things going on George World, yeah.

656
00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:47.639
We talked about this in our tooth and claw episode, that Russell's original plan for the season was that Queen Victoria would die at the hands of the werewolf in episode 2, and that it would create the alternate universe which created the side man world.

657
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:52.199
So it would have been the break, you know, the thing that broke the 2 universes off.

658
00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:53.519
I've never heard about this.

659
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:55.260
I never heard about that point.

660
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.760
Never heard about too complex.

661
00:44:56.820 --> 00:44:57.719
You probably tossed it.

662
00:44:57.840 --> 00:44:58.559
Oh, I think that's it.

663
00:44:58.619 --> 00:45:03.659
I think it is too complex and too science fiction-y, and I think you don't need to know that. literary.

664
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:05.039
So again, it works in a book.

665
00:45:05.099 --> 00:45:07.440
Moffatt would do and alienate the entire...

666
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:09.960
I don't necessarily think the entire audience.

667
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:13.440
I don't necessarily think the doctor has to be in the parallel universe at all.

668
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:19.559
I think that sometimes in the parallel universe, things something else has happened that has made that evolve.

669
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:27.420
And, you know, because her husband knew about that this threat was there and they had the, what's the diamond, the Colonel?

670
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:35.579
And so he may not have died back in whenever, he might have been travelling with her and there might have been able to defeat this thing and realising we need to stop these threats.

671
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.679
So I'm going to create torture because we defeated this here.

672
00:45:37.739 --> 00:45:40.079
I think there are other explanations rather than the doctor is here.

673
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:49.800
I'm not a big head cannon fan, but my head cannon about parallel universes generally is that adjacent parallel universes have similar content.

674
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:52.860
And so when we go to a parallel of universe.

675
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:56.159
There's always parallel versions of our characters doing the same thing.

676
00:45:56.219 --> 00:46:02.400
We still have Greg and Petra working at the Inferno project, even if it's a scientific labour camp in this reality.

677
00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:08.880
And the reason is that the universes are adjacent and distance between a parallel universe.

678
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:10.079
There's no document is how different they are.

679
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:11.519
There's no doctor in that universe.

680
00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:11.820
No.

681
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.579
It's just a coincidence that it's the same parallel universe.

682
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:21.840
Maybe it isn't because, you know, there's meant to be almost infinite ones depending on each small transgression of one truth to another.

683
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:30.659
You can still read this parallel universe with the sidemen in it as one, which is a republic because the queen died in the late 19th century.

684
00:46:30.780 --> 00:46:33.059
And so what's happened?

685
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:46.619
since, um, since episode six, Mickey and Jake have been, um, like they confine the cybermen to barracks, and then the sidemen all just vanish.

686
00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:49.800
And it takes them 3 years to come.

687
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:53.039
But is it is it 3 years from their creation by Lumic?

688
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:55.380
Like Lumic had already created them ages ago?

689
00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:03.179
It's unclear because, I mean, yes, you can read it that way and then, and then, you know, the timeline works.

690
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.840
But they'd already taken a torchwood.

691
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:14.400
They'd already initiated this plan before the doctor turns up and it starts...

692
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:15.480
Yeah, and defeats them.

693
00:47:15.539 --> 00:47:21.780
I guess this was the 1st time watching it that I'd ever noticed that 3 years thing at all.

694
00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:24.239
I had a todd moment.

695
00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:25.800
I didn't remember it.

696
00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:27.900
I had my own moment when I was going, what?

697
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:28.380
What?

698
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:32.579
But that line doesn't work because they're saying it's taken them.

699
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.000
They disappeared and it's been 3 years since they disappeared.

700
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:36.659
Isn't that it?

701
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:41.639
No, I think I think they say it's been a few months since they since they disappeared.

702
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:54.539
Look, I mean, the whole thing, you know, like I ragged on Moffat in our girl in the fireplace episode for creating a world that only exists in order to make that particular plot possible.

703
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:58.920
Here, I think all of the stuff about the void and the void rules and stuff.

704
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:10.980
Russell definitely puts dialogue in to justify pretty much everything that's going on, but I don't think it holds up to very sort of serious screw.

705
00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:11.579
Scrutiny.

706
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:14.940
So it still works as a TV show, so it still does its job.

707
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.460
I've just realised the difference between Moffat and our Russell.

708
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:25.800
It's the one writes for television and the other one writes in a literary manner.

709
00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:26.940
He writes for books.

710
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:30.840
Or you could say for film, but actually, no, it's a literary mind.

711
00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:37.199
All the conceits and concepts that you get that have to be truncated into 45 minutes for Moffat stories, which is why the public gets annoyed.

712
00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:43.139
Actually, belong in something that needs a full day to sit and read if you're going to sit down properly.

713
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:46.739
Have you read his novelisation of Day of the Doctor?

714
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:49.980
Not as yet you like. incredibly good.

715
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:51.179
I'm not surprised.

716
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:53.099
He's a good writer's writer.

717
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.840
Russell gets that he's writing for the medium of his 1st love, which is soap opera.

718
00:48:57.900 --> 00:48:58.679
Yeah.

719
00:48:58.739 --> 00:49:08.699
And that's why he keeps a science fiction comprehensible and tries not to kind of make anything sort of too demanding.

720
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:17.039
And I think that's okay because here, you know, parallel universes are not massively interesting, to be honest, except insofar as they give.

721
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:18.539
The actors.

722
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:19.559
Yeah, yeah.

723
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:22.860
Give us a chance to see Zeppelins and Jackie being mean to the staff.

724
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:29.760
But what is important is, of course, Billy's departure from the show.

725
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:43.199
And so we have what we need in order to strand really in a parallel universe, I think, and that's the main thing. going on here. and quite right too.

726
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.760
Should we talk about the final ending?

727
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:55.500
With the cliffhanger?

728
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.019
Oh, yes, I think we probably should.

729
00:49:58.079 --> 00:49:59.460
Yeah, no, no, we haven't done that.

730
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.219
I'm still sitting here in all this tule and no one's mentioned me.

731
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:03.659
That's right.

732
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.599
So this was a massive surprise.

733
00:50:06.659 --> 00:50:07.440
Thank you what?

734
00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:09.179
I always dress like this on the occasion.

735
00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:09.719
You know that?

736
00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:11.280
Do you, Richard?

737
00:50:11.340 --> 00:50:13.500
It's a bit flouncy, isn't it?

738
00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:16.019
Just when you've been put through the emotional ringer.

739
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:21.840
And you think it's all like it's like, okay, I just need a breather and take this all in.

740
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:26.219
All of a sudden the doctor looks up from the console and there's Catherine Tank?

741
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:30.719
There's a bride who's screaming and screeching at him.

742
00:50:30.780 --> 00:50:32.340
It's brilliant, isn't it?

743
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:39.480
Because you've got to give Billy Piper a final ending, but you mustn't make anyone think that the show is over.

744
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:40.860
That's the important thing.

745
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:43.260
This is such a final episode.

746
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:50.940
You have to show that there's some way forward to continue having Doctor Who after Billy Piper's gone.

747
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:56.460
And if this does it so well, Catherine Tate is massive at this point, isn't she?

748
00:50:56.519 --> 00:50:57.239
Yes.

749
00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:02.219
So that's huge and she's very Catherine Tatey sort of straight away.

750
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:10.500
We will later get to know what an incredibly subtle and gifted, dramatic performer she is.

751
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:12.239
She's really, really something.

752
00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:17.039
But here she's doing sort of screeching Catherine Tate stick.

753
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:22.139
And I imagine that there were any number of very, very serious Doctor Who fans who thought that that was terrible.

754
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:26.159
They're probably really angry and ready not to watch the next episode.

755
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:33.360
I didn't know who she was, but it was like, 0 my goodness, what, like, I've got to watch the next episode to see how has this event occurred.

756
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:39.300
Yeah, and we do get Doctor Who will return at Christmas in the Runaway Bride.

757
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:42.780
So we get the title and things in the closing credits.

758
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.239
So it is it is pretty great.

759
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:47.760
And I guess we'll...

760
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:50.760
I think it says with the runaway bride, because they don't work like me and James.

761
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:02.219
All right, we'll do our picks of the week.

762
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.139
Who'd like to start off?

763
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:05.699
Todd.

764
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.320
Okay, I guess I'll start off.

765
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:15.900
I'm going to pick the season 12 Blu-ray box set and you go and you watch the Doctor 2 Classic Revenge of the Cybermen when the Cybermen were really scary.

766
00:52:16.860 --> 00:52:20.159
I'm biting with armoured armadillos.

767
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:25.920
That went all necky over Sarah Jane, yes. was scary.

768
00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:30.539
It was scary. only because of Liz's fantastic response of, oh, mother.

769
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:31.920
Pure panic, yeah.

770
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:40.679
No, she was a bit like Graham Garden with, you know, like a little bowl, you know, like she's there making it kind of attack her neck because it's a sort of big puppet.

771
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:45.179
And there's also the Tracy and Cyberman of the Vogans as well.

772
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:46.199
Yes.

773
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:47.760
Yes.

774
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:52.139
Well, there aren't there aren't very many women in that story at all, are there?

775
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:53.579
All that season??

776
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:54.420
No.

777
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:56.639
Richard?

778
00:52:56.760 --> 00:53:06.300
Oh, well, again, I've cited him last time, but I like Michael Powell, and if I was going to look at something that reminds me of Graham Harper's direction, but gets people.

779
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:14.099
I can't go further than Deborah Carr and Roger Live Z and um, oh gosh, who was Anton Walbrook?

780
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:26.460
I had to look it up And it's actually a lovely film made in the middle of the wall, Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, and it has Deborah Carr playing 3 different female characters, kind of like kind hearts and coronets, but not tin drag.

781
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:28.380
And it's lovely.

782
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:31.019
Michael Powell made Peeping Tom.

783
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:35.579
He's a really expressionistic out there director, but it just has moments of this.

784
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:45.900
There's the military feel or the sidemen thing, and then there's that really emotional sense of, I'm definitely sure that this is one of the predicates for this for this story.

785
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.539
And, you know, and British film is worth looking at.

786
00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:53.039
And it also had cost the equivalent of £2000000, which was a lot in 1943.

787
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:54.119
So it's lovely to look at.

788
00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:55.139
And it's Deborah Carr.

789
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:55.800
Dip a car.

790
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:57.719
And we own her because she's in Casino Royale.

791
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:00.300
James.

792
00:54:00.539 --> 00:54:04.980
Look, I'd hate to break with tradition.

793
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:11.639
I tend to recommend big Finnish stories because unlike some of the people in this room, I actually quite enjoy them.

794
00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:14.159
I love them, yeah.

795
00:54:14.219 --> 00:54:22.320
But big finish have got Tracy and Openman back for a number of audio.

796
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:24.960
That's not fair.

797
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:30.059
But they got her back for 2 sort of miniseries.

798
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:34.920
One's called Before the Fall. and like they're called Tortured One before the fall.

799
00:54:35.099 --> 00:54:44.340
And they bring back Yanto, pre-torchwood, um, and...

800
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:45.659
Do they bring back his cyber girlfriend?

801
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:46.199
No.

802
00:54:46.260 --> 00:54:47.460
Oh, the shame.

803
00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:50.039
That's a continuity problem.

804
00:54:50.099 --> 00:54:51.239
Yeah.

805
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:52.380
Well maybe they do.

806
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:55.139
I'm not going to spoil that.

807
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:57.599
And do they bring back one after the fall?

808
00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:04.380
And the next one is called machines. and is take on the war machines.

809
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:05.159
Wow.

810
00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:08.880
So they bring them back in the 21st century.

811
00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:09.900
Really?

812
00:55:09.900 --> 00:55:12.360
Do they go, Yvonne Hartmann is required?

813
00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:13.260
Yes.

814
00:55:13.739 --> 00:55:16.739
Now I need to bloody go and listen to them.

815
00:55:16.739 --> 00:55:20.219
Don't redesign them to look like the cleaners.

816
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:23.099
Oh, this gets better and better.

817
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:24.960
Highly recommended.

818
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:26.280
This is highly recommended.

819
00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:27.900
Actually, no, I actually would go and listen to that.

820
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:29.760
But no, she's great in them.

821
00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:37.800
They've also done a couple of single episodes, ones where she's popped up and she just, she's fantastic.

822
00:55:37.860 --> 00:55:47.940
It makes you wish they'd actually maybe made a series based on Tortured one instead of Tortured three.

823
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:49.619
So Nathan, what's your pick of the week?

824
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:52.380
So I'm going to pick something that I've picked before.

825
00:55:52.440 --> 00:56:02.699
Friend of the podcast, Johnny Spandrel, has been doing a blog at randomhunus.com, and he has been watching Doctor Who stories in random order.

826
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:04.559
So that's the opposite of what we do.

827
00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:12.239
And he's been finding something completely new to say about each story as he does it, which is also really the complete opposite of what we do.

828
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:15.900
And he is a very clever writer.

829
00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:23.099
I'm constantly impressed by just new things that I've never thought of when I read his essays.

830
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:27.179
They're really fun and he's very, very close to the end.

831
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:28.679
He's been doing it for a while.

832
00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:31.260
He's about to run out of Doctor Who stories.

833
00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:34.980
And so I recommend everyone to check that out.

834
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:36.900
That's at randomhunus.com.

835
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:08.820
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

836
00:57:08.940 --> 00:57:15.659
It will give you a week to recover from all the emotional turmoil, and we'll be back after that for our Series 2 retrospective.

837
00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:26.219
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

838
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:41.760
You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody IntoTara, at JodyintoTara.com, and at Jody InterTara on Twitter, and our James Bond Commentary podcast, Bondfinger at Bondfinger.com, at Bondfinger on Facebook, and at Bondfingercast on Twitter.

839
00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:46.860
Until next time, remember that it's been an emotional week for all of us.

840
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:49.559
So make sure that you take good care of yourself.

841
00:57:49.619 --> 00:57:53.820
Have a bath or a massage or do a season 20 marathon.

842
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:55.019
You deserve it.

843
00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:57.360
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

844
00:57:57.420 --> 00:57:58.079
Good night.

845
00:57:58.139 --> 00:57:59.159
See you soon.

846
00:57:59.219 --> 00:57:59.760
Good then.

847
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:07.559
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd, but it'll be Nathan, probably James Selwood and Richard Stone.

848
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:11.340
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

849
00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:17.760
This episode, that which is missing, was recorded on the 28th of April 2019 and released on the 9th of June.

850
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:25.920
We would like to apologise for this week's single fleeting reference to Brexit.

851
00:58:25.980 --> 00:58:34.679
We know you love to tune in to our hot political takes, and we promise to make up for it next week with a hilariously prolonged bit about the size of Donald Trump's hands.

852
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:43.559
You can also find our series 11 flashcast Jody IntoTera at Jody IntoTera.com and at Jody Into...

853
00:58:43.559 --> 00:58:45.179
Me.

854
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:52.920
You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody into Tara at Jody into Tara.com and at Jody into Tara.

855
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:55.380
This is the tag.

856
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:58.980
This is the Turk..

857
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:02.699
I just cut out the recording from last week and drop it in.

858
00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:05.579
Like, good.

859
00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:09.466
You can also find out.