WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:51:17

1
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.479
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

2
00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.020
the only Doctor Who podcast, walking through the marketplace on

3
00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:45.179
some planet a 1000000000 miles from Earth.

4
00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:48.780
But we're not flight through entirety, not anymore.

5
00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:50.640
We're not even human.

6
00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:52.679
I'm Nathan.

7
00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:53.579
I'm James.

8
00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:54.659
I'm Todd.

9
00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:57.840
Just a supernova getting sucked out of a black hole at the

10
00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:58.140
moment.

11
00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.240
Happy election day.

12
00:01:01.259 --> 00:01:05.459
It's been one hell of a rollicking ride over the last 13 weeks.

13
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:08.579
We've loved, we've lost, and we've been haunted by terrifying

14
00:01:08.579 --> 00:01:11.219
mental images of Elton Pope's love life.

15
00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.819
But we've recovered now and we're ready to summarise what we've

16
00:01:14.819 --> 00:01:15.120
learned.

17
00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:18.239
Welcome to our series 2 retrospective.

18
00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:40.680
So, a little while ago, Nathan and I guested on the Doctor Who

19
00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:45.780
Show, and David Kitchen came up with this method of different

20
00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:48.719
topics that he put them on little pieces of paper and we had to

21
00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:49.019
pick.

22
00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:54.900
So I've done this for today, and we've got 3 different topics that

23
00:01:54.900 --> 00:01:57.180
the gentlemen here are going to pick from.

24
00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:04.920
We've got the cast, Snog Mario Void, and a series 2 in 3 bowls.

25
00:02:04.980 --> 00:02:08.580
And we're going to be picking from those for the 1st 3 quarters of

26
00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:12.719
this retrospective and then we've got it's a wrap, which is

27
00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:16.979
obviously more about mummification.

28
00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.080
The end of the season.

29
00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:22.919
So as the most recent member of the podcast, James, I'd like you

30
00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:23.400
to pick first.

31
00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:27.240
And one, you just go into...

32
00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:27.780
Go for the filth.

33
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:30.780
Oh, you want to snob marry a boy, do you?

34
00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.159
Go straight for the filth.

35
00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:33.419
Well, you do know me.

36
00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:39.360
Okay, well, you can go with Snog Mario void is in that bowl, so

37
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.400
you need to just find something.

38
00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:45.060
They're like tiny fortune cookies, dear listener.

39
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.180
Delicious, crispy and full of foreboding.

40
00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:52.319
Snog Mario void.

41
00:02:52.379 --> 00:02:55.319
Mrs. Moore, Ada Scott or Maeve Griffiths.

42
00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:58.740
I don't know who Maeve Griffin is.

43
00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.180
Okay, Maeve Griffiths.

44
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.159
Oh, the children are disappearing.

45
00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:03.479
Oh no.

46
00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:05.819
From, uh, fear her.

47
00:03:05.819 --> 00:03:10.080
That was very good.

48
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.460
I think it'd have to be Mrs. Moore because she's just so

49
00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:14.939
fabulous.

50
00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:16.319
It's not her?

51
00:03:16.379 --> 00:03:17.699
You're snogging Mrs. Moore?

52
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:18.719
worried about the tea.

53
00:03:18.780 --> 00:03:19.199
Yes, yes.

54
00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:20.159
Who are you avoiding?

55
00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.280
And therefore you're marrying Ida Scott.

56
00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:27.120
Well, you would.

57
00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:27.960
Very good.

58
00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:30.000
And she has a lovely religion.

59
00:03:30.060 --> 00:03:32.159
Her sort of quantum Presbyterian religion.

60
00:03:32.219 --> 00:03:33.840
They I'm sure they have a lovely ceremony.

61
00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:39.960
I just see this as an exciting, you know, bar mini convention to

62
00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:41.340
your mother convention.

63
00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.500
Ah, the wives of series 2.

64
00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.159
The grannies of Doctor Who.

65
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.500
They're not far off, Tom.

66
00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:50.400
Richard.

67
00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:50.939
Richard.

68
00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:52.560
Why don't you pick from the black?

69
00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:54.000
The black pole.

70
00:03:54.060 --> 00:03:54.659
Yes.

71
00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:56.639
I'll put the black pigeon on my head.

72
00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.939
Stupid boy turtles.

73
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

74
00:04:01.259 --> 00:04:02.580
Twisted boy.

75
00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:06.659
Why didn't they play in like, hello, Colin Neal.

76
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.180
Why didn't they play Enlightenment, like an episode of Dad's

77
00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:09.479
Army?

78
00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:10.139
It was all there.

79
00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:13.740
It would have honestly. still podcasting about it.

80
00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:14.759
I'm really blind.

81
00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:16.740
No, it says here.

82
00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:18.720
Rosemary's baby, what does it say?

83
00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:20.339
Best adversary.

84
00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.980
Yes, best adversary of this season.

85
00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.759
Oh, well, I want to say Billy Piper's teeth, but they haven't

86
00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:28.259
reached apotheosis yet.

87
00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:32.160
That's such a good question, isn't it?

88
00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:34.800
As in the very, very best.

89
00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:36.360
Well, it depends on who you are.

90
00:04:36.420 --> 00:04:40.019
As a little child, I actually think the graphite squiggle monster

91
00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:44.279
was just such a genius concept for a tiny child.

92
00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:47.220
You're never going to forget that if you're under 10 and watching

93
00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:48.060
that episode.

94
00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.980
Um, but I think the best adversary of the year has to be bitchy

95
00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:54.000
dalek sick.

96
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:58.019
Just because I hadn't seen, I hadn't seen dynasty.

97
00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:02.339
I haven't seen Aaron spelling in wear cheese and shoulder pads

98
00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:06.240
before as the Scarovian in Promada.

99
00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:07.740
They're freaking bitches.

100
00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:08.399
God, I love them.

101
00:05:09.899 --> 00:05:13.139
I have to default to the obvious, of course, and she's all in

102
00:05:13.139 --> 00:05:14.699
black Matt, and Josh, she's gorgeous.

103
00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.839
I'm surprised that Maureen Lippman doesn't get a look in here.

104
00:05:18.899 --> 00:05:20.220
She should.

105
00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:22.980
If she, perhaps if she'd just done something more with it.

106
00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:25.560
I know, maybe someone else should have that.

107
00:05:25.620 --> 00:05:28.680
And but it's really, what I'm thinking is, who do you take away

108
00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:29.699
with you in memory?

109
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:30.899
What has really struck?

110
00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:32.399
So I'm thinking of point of difference.

111
00:05:32.459 --> 00:05:37.019
So again, doing the Dior little black, little black after 5 number

112
00:05:37.019 --> 00:05:40.199
and just changing expectations.

113
00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:43.199
We've seen Russell do this with everything.

114
00:05:43.259 --> 00:05:45.000
I love Mark Gatis's stories.

115
00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:48.480
I just wish that they actually got produced on screen as, you know

116
00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:49.740
in the full 4 hours that they need.

117
00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:53.339
It is this thing, though, where we spend our entire childhood

118
00:05:53.339 --> 00:05:56.699
wondering what would happen if the Daleks and Cyberman had a

119
00:05:56.699 --> 00:05:57.000
fight.

120
00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.879
And what we didn't realise would be that it would be just a sort

121
00:05:59.879 --> 00:06:01.560
of giant slapdown bitch fight.

122
00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.699
It's a dynasty end of season in the duck pond.

123
00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.980
So yeah, so I love Maureen.

124
00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:11.699
But no, I think as if I were a child watching this, it would have

125
00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:12.060
been that.

126
00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:13.500
But you're very right.

127
00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:15.240
But like, you're very true when you say that.

128
00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.360
What do you, what instantly comes to mind?

129
00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:22.319
And like for me, it's like the clockwork people from Girl on the

130
00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:25.560
Fireplace and the wolf from Tooth and Claw.

131
00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:29.639
But as an adversary for me, it has to be the beast and its various

132
00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.759
incarnations in that two-parter is the adversary of the year for

133
00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:33.899
me, right?

134
00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:35.819
When I sit down and really analyse and think about it.

135
00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:37.800
It's mainly for Gabriel Will's voice.

136
00:06:37.860 --> 00:06:39.480
Yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it?

137
00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:41.639
But the CG monster looks pretty good as well.

138
00:06:41.699 --> 00:06:44.819
What about you, James?

139
00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:46.620
Who's your adversary?

140
00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.800
I think the CG Monster looks good in this better than it did next

141
00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:51.300
season in our Torchwood.

142
00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:51.959
Yeah.

143
00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:53.160
Sorry.

144
00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:54.000
Unfortunate series one.

145
00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:54.600
Yeah.

146
00:06:54.660 --> 00:06:57.540
Like, ooh, we've got this CG monster leftover.

147
00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:58.439
Let's paint it great.

148
00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.519
Look, I would probably have to agree with you with Dalek Sec.

149
00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:07.680
Um, just...

150
00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:11.399
Yeah, it's the 1st memory, but because it's so tattooed on the

151
00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:12.120
frontal lobes.

152
00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:17.100
When I was rewatching the series 2 finale, like I was quoting

153
00:07:17.100 --> 00:07:20.220
those lines in my head. my husband.

154
00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:24.660
But anyway, like I said, I felt like I, you know, not that I was a

155
00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:26.879
kid when I was watching I was in my 20s.

156
00:07:26.939 --> 00:07:30.720
But the inner child, like the thing that sparks the inner child in

157
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.920
me is the thing that makes me remember a Doctor Who, Billy. used

158
00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:35.339
to watch it.

159
00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:35.819
Yeah.

160
00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:40.079
I felt like I was, you know, an 8 year old and that was just the

161
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:41.579
best thing in the world to me.

162
00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.600
Like the sort of SmackDown, you know, you are better at dying.

163
00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:48.660
Pest control.

164
00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:49.800
Yes, right too.

165
00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:50.399
Excellent.

166
00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:55.079
All right.

167
00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:58.079
Please pick from the far bowl.

168
00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.560
This one over here, which is this is about the cast.

169
00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:02.579
The cast.

170
00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:06.360
Oh, Sarah Jane Smith and K9.

171
00:08:06.899 --> 00:08:13.139
I found myself absolutely touched by K9's return and bawling my

172
00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:16.680
eyes out at the end.

173
00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:17.399
Resurrection?

174
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:18.120
Yeah, yeah.

175
00:08:18.180 --> 00:08:22.139
But I do have some reservations about that episode and about Sarah

176
00:08:22.139 --> 00:08:23.639
Jane Smith's depiction.

177
00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:29.279
And um, I was chatting to Johnny Spandrel about this, who is not a

178
00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:30.540
fan of this episode.

179
00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:36.299
And he really dislikes the way that Sarah and Rose fight, the way

180
00:08:36.299 --> 00:08:39.360
that she's turned into sort of, you know, the doctor's

181
00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:39.840
girlfriend.

182
00:08:39.899 --> 00:08:42.960
And the way that she is a bit of a loser.

183
00:08:43.019 --> 00:08:44.700
And I think we talked about that in the episode.

184
00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:48.720
We did, and I had certain reservations too, because I always felt

185
00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.960
that she would go on to bigger and better things, but instead it's

186
00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.120
like she spent 20 years in a rut.

187
00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:54.840
Yeah, yeah.

188
00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:57.899
I mean, she does go on to bigger and better things at the end and

189
00:08:57.899 --> 00:08:59.220
we know that that's what happens.

190
00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:04.379
And her performance, you know, there are times where it's still

191
00:09:04.379 --> 00:09:08.220
that sort of performative 1970s performance which doesn't quite

192
00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:11.460
fit into 21st century Doctor Who.

193
00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:14.639
But there's times when it is really, really touching and

194
00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:15.299
affecting.

195
00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.720
And I remember at the time thinking that maybe they were cutting

196
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.500
around her a little bit, but, you know, her reaction to canine's

197
00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:26.580
death is so, so heartfelt and so wonderful.

198
00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:29.399
And, you know, like I tear up every time I see it.

199
00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:32.820
I mean, you know, she was my 1st companion.

200
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:38.700
I will always love her and, you know, I still was terribly excited

201
00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:39.720
to see her back.

202
00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:41.940
Look, I agree with everything that you just said.

203
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:46.019
One of the things that I had a problem with was the fact that from

204
00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:48.899
here on in, she's always Sarah Jane to everybody, and in my head, I

205
00:09:48.899 --> 00:09:49.980
don't know, in my head cannon.

206
00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.679
She always introduced herself as Sarah Jane Smith, right?

207
00:09:52.740 --> 00:09:55.500
And she was called Ms. Smith, but often when the doctor was

208
00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:58.200
talking to her, she'd just be Sarah, unless he was on death's door

209
00:09:58.200 --> 00:09:59.639
when he would call her Sarah Jane.

210
00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:02.159
So I actually really like in the episode, pretendant actually does

211
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:03.480
say Sarah at one point.

212
00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.019
And it always just grates, I mean, when everybody just calls us

213
00:10:07.019 --> 00:10:07.799
Sarah Jane all the time.

214
00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:10.200
Like it's just a minor thing, but it's just something from my

215
00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.600
childhood that I think is a bit of a rewrite.

216
00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:18.659
In fact, um, Gita, Rani's mother keeps calling her Sarah in uh, the

217
00:10:18.659 --> 00:10:22.620
Sarah Jane Adventures and Sarah keeps correcting her.

218
00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.980
So she's obviously decided to go with Sarah Jane at some point, but

219
00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:27.539
maybe I'm bringing that into it a bit.

220
00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:31.559
I wanted to talk about K9 because it's something that when we were

221
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.899
discussing this episode, I think we overlooked a lot more because

222
00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:37.500
we were talking very much about Liz and that dynamic.

223
00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:39.899
And it was really lovely to have him back.

224
00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:45.240
And I would have liked it if when the doctor had started him up

225
00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.519
you would have got halloo master.

226
00:10:47.580 --> 00:10:49.799
Like the David Brierly voiced by accident.

227
00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:52.679
And then and then he goes, oh, no, that's the wrong setting and

228
00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:55.259
then gone to John Leeson. would have been kind of nice.

229
00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:58.799
Sorry, I just thought I'd throw that in.

230
00:10:58.860 --> 00:10:59.879
Let's re-edit it.

231
00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:01.620
James?

232
00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:07.620
Yeah, I think we raised this at the time when we did school

233
00:11:07.620 --> 00:11:08.340
reunion.

234
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:14.580
Yeah, I think we all had a problem with the Sarah being bitter and

235
00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:19.919
heartbroken by her sort of parting from the doctor and mourning

236
00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:21.299
that relationship for 20 years.

237
00:11:21.419 --> 00:11:29.940
I think you can wreck on that because The parting of them in had a

238
00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:33.299
fear is not something she will, you know, she doesn't want to

239
00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:33.600
leave.

240
00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:37.019
They have a they have a bit of a hissy fit to each other.

241
00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.899
Well, she has a hissy fit at him because he's ignoring her and

242
00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:43.200
then and then he throws her out the Tartars, is, you know, like

243
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:44.639
you can kind of understand that.

244
00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:49.019
But I think I raised this at the time, the, the, you know, they

245
00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:50.519
wanted to make her an alcoholic.

246
00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:51.419
Yeah, yeah.

247
00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.580
I think what we got was so much better.

248
00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:57.179
I think that would have probably killed the character.

249
00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:00.659
You may not have actually got a spinoff series if you've gone with

250
00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:00.840
it.

251
00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:05.279
The 1st time I saw this was sitting next to, as I'm doing right

252
00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:06.899
now, to the lovely Todd.

253
00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.840
And we saw it at the group viewing it.

254
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.980
And, well, I mean, just it's very hard to see through a windscreen

255
00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:15.600
visor of tears, isn't it?

256
00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:20.580
But I remember we were talking about this and certainly I felt at

257
00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:21.779
the time watching this.

258
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.320
I love how Russell always writes himself into his into those he

259
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:25.740
most loves.

260
00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:28.559
So of course she was going to be an alcoholic and washed up and

261
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:29.580
embittered.

262
00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.340
No, I loved the embitteredness because again, as you say, none of

263
00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:34.620
us were happy as small children with the way she was left.

264
00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.559
And we all thought, of course she's bitter and angry, and of

265
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:39.480
course she had everything and she was dropped.

266
00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:41.340
She was booted out.

267
00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:43.860
And there was a more fraternal relationship between them.

268
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.580
They were never the, the, the relationship that Rose has.

269
00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:53.399
But then again, I really love Liz's take on the slightly Mary

270
00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.340
Poppins school mom, take that she takes.

271
00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.019
Oh, good for you, tiger.

272
00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:02.039
And she says to no, she really handles Billy Piper very, very

273
00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:05.279
nicely, as in, you know, both as an actress and as a character.

274
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:07.919
They have a lovely way of working off each other.

275
00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:11.159
It was really good to see for someone who hadn't worked on

276
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.000
television for so long, just how quickly Liz got to the pace and

277
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:15.960
picked it up.

278
00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:17.399
I was a bit worried for her.

279
00:13:17.460 --> 00:13:19.919
That 1st time when Todd and I was sitting there together watching

280
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.980
it, we just couldn't really see it because it was all just, oh

281
00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:24.000
this is just everything.

282
00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:26.460
It really was. was everything.

283
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.820
To have you, to have you such a big part of who you loved as a

284
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:32.159
little child to come back on screen is very powerful.

285
00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.820
It's you know, it's one of the biggest acting jobs she's had in 20

286
00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:36.299
years.

287
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:41.159
And you can you can see that, like you say, it's that sort of

288
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:42.899
presentational 70s acting style.

289
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.000
But she picks it up really quickly.

290
00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:45.779
Very quickly.

291
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.600
By the end of that story, I think she's kind of got the pace of

292
00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:48.840
it.

293
00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:51.419
And then when she gets her own series, she's amazing.

294
00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:54.480
Yeah, she's back in the swing, you can see that journey in that

295
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:54.840
episode.

296
00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:57.179
I think really on a personal level.

297
00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:01.320
It's more about the fact that, you know, in the end, she got her

298
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:01.679
reward.

299
00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:02.399
Yeah.

300
00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:04.860
And I think that's really it touches you.

301
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:05.580
You did, yeah.

302
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.899
Okay, it's my turn to choose.

303
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.620
And guess what?

304
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:15.120
It's up to snog, Barry, avoid.

305
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:16.679
I was trying to avoid this, needle.

306
00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:19.019
Just have to snuggle Marritt instead.

307
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.200
Okay, here we go.

308
00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:23.220
Snog barrier avoid.

309
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:27.480
Gareth, Matt, or Christian Arthur.

310
00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:29.700
Bracket, the guard from the Impossible Pianus.

311
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:31.919
He had a name?

312
00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:33.899
No, that's his real name, not.

313
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:35.100
I looked it up.

314
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:40.139
So I guess, come on, Todd, you're snogging.

315
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:41.460
I'm stogging.

316
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:42.299
Which one's Matt?

317
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.179
I even wrote this and I forgot which one's the dark-haired one?

318
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.419
I thought the dark-haired one was prettier than the other one, so

319
00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:50.220
I'm calling him Matt and the other one, Gareth.

320
00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:53.100
All right, so the less pretty one I'm avoiding.

321
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:53.639
Yep.

322
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:58.799
I shall obviously snore Gareth, and then, well, the guard in the

323
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:00.539
Boston Planet looks like I'm marrying him for all the right

324
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:00.899
reasons.

325
00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.679
Non-stop access to that, don't you, Todd?

326
00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:05.159
Yep.

327
00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:08.039
Gareth is Adiola's boyfriend.

328
00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:08.820
Right.

329
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.980
And Matt is the one that they lure in afterwards.

330
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:11.820
I think.

331
00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:14.159
Well, I've answered the question.

332
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:16.139
And I can't believe I cannot believe people.

333
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.299
I pulled this one out of them.

334
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.399
Two relatively pretty boys, lucky you.

335
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:22.980
Was the guard attractive?

336
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:23.820
Can't remember.

337
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:24.659
Yes.

338
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.100
Have another listen to that episode.

339
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:27.419
You need to...

340
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:28.679
Oh, is he the one with the package?

341
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:29.700
Apparently.

342
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:35.639
All right, James, you're up. and you are up to the black bowl here

343
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:38.279
on series.

344
00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:41.220
I'm reaching deep into the ball.

345
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.259
Inter Valentine dials, black bowl.

346
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:46.080
Why did we choose this bowl?

347
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.080
It's a big black ball.

348
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.799
I have picked out favourite moment from the season.

349
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:58.139
Look, I think my favourite moment from the season, just because it

350
00:15:58.139 --> 00:16:02.580
has so much emotional residence, because we've grown to love her

351
00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:07.440
and I'm probably stealing your favourite moment, Nathan. is the

352
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:14.220
moment when Jackie and alternate Pete.

353
00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:16.440
Oh, God. in the series finale.

354
00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:22.320
And, and there's that whole sort of comical interplay and then

355
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.139
they just end up sort of running and jumping into each other's

356
00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:27.360
arms and like, it's wonderful.

357
00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:29.159
It's just beautiful. such an amazing.

358
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.600
I was in tears the whole time. and they're both, they're both

359
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.419
saying to one another, no, you're not my real wife, you're not my

360
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:38.460
real husband. this isn't going to happen.

361
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.519
And you're kind of thinking that's such a stupid science fiction

362
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.620
concede who cares for God's sake.

363
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.379
And just while you're thinking that they run into one another's

364
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:46.799
arms.

365
00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:48.240
It's beautiful.

366
00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:50.159
And it fixes Rose's family.

367
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:53.279
You know, there's a wound at the heart of Rose's backstory, which

368
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.580
is her father died when she was little and the doctor fixes it

369
00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:00.539
inadvertently, but he does leave her better than he found her.

370
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.039
Nathan?

371
00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:05.339
Well, I might choose another Jackie moment then in that case.

372
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:11.339
And it is Jackie and Elton at the Laundret in Love and Monsters.

373
00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:15.839
And it's a wonderful scene because Elton's gone in with

374
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.980
instructions from Victor Kennedy about how to strike up a

375
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:22.680
conversation with a normal human being.

376
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:27.240
And as he's thinking about all of the instructions in his head

377
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.380
Jackie actually does it, each one of them 1st because Jackie is a

378
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:34.859
normal human being who knows how to have relationships with normal

379
00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:36.059
human beings.

380
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:40.079
And that whole scene and much of that episode was written in order

381
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.720
to give Jackie Moore to do.

382
00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:48.299
And I think Brendan may have said that the original plan was like

383
00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:52.380
not to have Jackie at the end of the season in our universe, that

384
00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:56.160
she wouldn't be there, but Russell definitely definitely wanted to

385
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.579
give her more to do in Love and Monsters, and she's wonderful in

386
00:17:59.579 --> 00:17:59.819
it.

387
00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.880
And that scene is so funny and just so wonderful.

388
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.099
And the 2 of them just spark off each other.

389
00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.319
And it's a showcase for Camille.

390
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:08.220
So I'll go with that.

391
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:09.000
Excellent.

392
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:09.420
Richard?

393
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.819
Well, there's never been anybody else, has there?

394
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:15.299
There's been a reason, Delphon eyebrow.

395
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.160
If we're talking about most memorable moment, yeah, I agree.

396
00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:24.180
It does have to be the supporting cast, he also gets, Russell gets

397
00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:28.680
in, it's a standard Broadway way of writing that your subcast, you

398
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:35.220
know, your, your Karen and Sean, Jack, yeah, Jack, from, you know

399
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:36.720
your Bcast is always more fun.

400
00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:41.640
You know, your Niles and Daphne are always more fun than Frasier

401
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:43.079
who's a scary man anyway.

402
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:44.819
And back this year, weirdly.

403
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.480
So, yes, anyone, any of the bees.

404
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:49.859
I love the arc of Mickey.

405
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:50.700
Yeah.

406
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:52.079
Really enjoyed that.

407
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:54.779
But yes, whenever Camille came on screen.

408
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.799
I feel like as if I've been kind of pontooned into this by

409
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.519
Nathan's constant glorification of, and rightly so.

410
00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:05.519
But no, it just, it highlights, you know, it makes us look at

411
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:05.940
this.

412
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:06.480
But yes, it is.

413
00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:07.200
It's probably.

414
00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.240
I mean, it's a lovely moments where they chuck over those

415
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:12.720
undeniably ostentatious urns in Satan Pitt. you think, well, they

416
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:13.380
had to go anyway.

417
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.539
It's dreadful.

418
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:21.900
But no, I do agree that Camille coming back in that little moment

419
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.880
you know, as I just said, well, hardly anyone else.

420
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:25.980
It really works, really works.

421
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.859
Again, for a lovely sense of he understands what people are

422
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:30.119
watching these things for.

423
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:33.660
It really does actually feel like an operetto, or maybe even

424
00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:35.940
elevate that, but it could work as a Broadway show.

425
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.099
Russell's Doctor Who under the tenet area.

426
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:39.420
It is.

427
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:41.819
Literally kinky boots out for heels.

428
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:47.940
These are all wonderful moments and I agree with all of them.

429
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:53.819
But I do feel that there are 2 moments that I really touch my

430
00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:54.299
heart.

431
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.539
One is goodbye, Sarah Jane Smith.

432
00:19:57.779 --> 00:20:00.599
And that whole sequence is just...

433
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:05.519
It just warms my heart when it appears from behind the...

434
00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:08.519
Yeah, but leading up to that and that way...

435
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:13.500
It's that thing where the doctor doesn't want to say goodbye.

436
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.839
He wants to brush it off and she won't let him.

437
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:19.200
She makes him say goodbye properly and it's so good.

438
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:20.579
She's great in it.

439
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:24.240
And it also works that she's older than him too, and she has some

440
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.619
kind of authority over him.

441
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.279
So she won't let him get away with that sort of the crap that he

442
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.619
got away with back when he was Tom Baker.

443
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:34.740
She makes him say a proper goodbye to her and it's wonderful.

444
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.980
And it's wonderful also because Dave Attendant's such a fan of the

445
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:41.759
series, you know, and there's a lot of subtexts there in all of

446
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:42.480
his scenes with her.

447
00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:44.220
That is just an amazing.

448
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.480
I don't think he's acting at all.

449
00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:53.519
The other moment is at the end of Army of Ghosts, when the Daleks

450
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.240
actually appear, just suddenly appear, because you know that it's

451
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:00.839
them or you're 99% certain, but then when it's confirmed, your

452
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.900
brain as a fan is going, oh, my God, they're doing Daleks in the

453
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:04.980
side in the one story.

454
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:05.940
Yeah.

455
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.819
I think the music queue, the Dalek music queue appears just

456
00:21:08.819 --> 00:21:10.380
seconds before the Daleks do.

457
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.400
How we didn't realise, I don't remember when I realised during the

458
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.599
episode that it was going to be them.

459
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:18.240
But it's a giant Dalek ball.

460
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.799
But I didn't make that connection.

461
00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:25.200
No, they 1st watched...

462
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.579
I've only just made the connection now.

463
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:31.319
I just kind of went, like rewatching it for the podcast.

464
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:32.640
I went, Benmark.

465
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.059
How did I not see that?

466
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:40.380
It's literally a Dalek fear coloured in the same way.

467
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.380
It's so it's so bloody.

468
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:44.160
So ballsy.

469
00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:47.160
But at the time, at the time, like, when the Simon's saying, it's

470
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.259
not our thing and that's the thing, and it's a big round ball

471
00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:53.099
thing, like, I remember going to myself, it's got to be the Daleks

472
00:21:53.099 --> 00:21:54.839
it's got to be the Daleks, wanting it to be the Daleks.

473
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:57.180
It's actually the same moment, isn't it?

474
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.779
Where in, um, is it parting of the ways where the Emperor Dalek

475
00:22:00.779 --> 00:22:02.759
says, no bad wolf has nothing to do with us?

476
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.819
And you kind of go, wait, there's a mystery we thought we had that

477
00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:07.619
sorted and now it's opened up again.

478
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.759
And the fact that the ball has nothing to do with the cyberman is

479
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:13.140
the same beat, isn't it?

480
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:17.220
Like Russell does that very well at the end of most of his seasons

481
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:20.220
that we've been leading you down this path.

482
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:20.640
Flip.

483
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:22.140
Yeah, he'll do it next year.

484
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:23.039
We'll talk about it then.

485
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.640
Yeah, probably in a much more successful way with series three.

486
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:31.019
I would have liked to have been a giant egg and a giant cybermat

487
00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:32.640
come out. fantastic.

488
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.920
All right, let's move on.

489
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:46.079
Richard, you're up next.

490
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.140
It's imagining how to go for the next.

491
00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:52.200
Maybe it's a giant yeti control scene.

492
00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:54.539
Oh, why can't I stop it.

493
00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:58.920
No amount of harpic or get rid of them, will it?

494
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:07.799
I'm really keen to have Jody menaced by the furry beasts from

495
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:08.700
below the rim.

496
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.220
There's an episode title.

497
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:12.779
Never needed one.

498
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:17.099
All right, now I have with my with my roomy old eyes.

499
00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:18.180
Oh, I'm happy.

500
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.519
It says Jackie and Mickey.

501
00:23:20.579 --> 00:23:25.259
I put the, well, we've just really discussed that, but if you

502
00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:26.339
want...

503
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:28.680
Well, just to very quickly, again, what I'm saying about the

504
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:33.480
Broadway simulancra of this, which is actually based on Jewish

505
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:38.099
musical traditions, our French Joseph Toltz has written on this

506
00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:41.759
that really the whole thing where we can see Doctor Who this

507
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.420
season is actually based very much from very old stories.

508
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.779
And in fact, really old stories the way over, here I go on my

509
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:50.759
trope, again, we get to ring a bell.

510
00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:54.240
I guess if you talk about social stories or mythologies that you

511
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.599
have cast of characters, I mean, Tolkien does it really well.

512
00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:00.359
We now know, we have to say Tolkien, not Tolkien.

513
00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:00.779
Oh, really?

514
00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:01.859
Yes, the new film coming up.

515
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:02.940
We say Tolkien.

516
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.059
But I really like the arcing of that.

517
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:11.339
And if you like the raising of the holy fool character or the

518
00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:14.759
slightly simple character who becomes the hero at the end is very

519
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:19.259
much a part of musical tradition and Jewish storytelling.

520
00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:20.460
And now we have it in Doctor Who.

521
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.579
I like how Mickey becomes part of their family.

522
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.839
I can't believe that they're still boyfriend and girlfriend.

523
00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:30.420
They're virtually kind of brother-in-law.

524
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:31.440
Well, not, are they?

525
00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:33.420
And she says, I'm not up the duff.

526
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:34.920
I love that.

527
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:39.299
She's got this few precious moments to say goodbye to the doctor

528
00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:40.799
and she pranks him twice.

529
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:43.380
It's so wonderful.

530
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:48.539
But I just, it's that family and that relationship in particular

531
00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:52.740
over 2 years has been the most interesting one on the show because

532
00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:56.400
it's, it's not very well sketched when we 1st see them.

533
00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:00.660
I don't think Jackie and Mickey really interact in Rose, but then

534
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:04.380
in aliens of London, she's been, you know, sticking flaming bags

535
00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:10.079
of dog turds on his on his front doorstep for 18 months because

536
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.799
she thinks that he's murdered Rose and then they grow together

537
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:15.180
they fight the sabine together.

538
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.259
And then it's so touching in Love and Monsters again, which I'm

539
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:21.599
currently obsessed with because I'm in the middle of editing the

540
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:26.279
episode, where she talks about how she had a mate who used to come

541
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:28.140
around and help her out and he's gone.

542
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.299
And it's so beautiful.

543
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.279
Like, that relationship is so sweet.

544
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.059
And, you know, everything's about Rose and how, Rose feels and how

545
00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:37.500
am I going to cope with you gone?

546
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.880
She says to Mickey when he leaves at the end of the sidemen 2

547
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:42.480
parter.

548
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:43.920
But what about Jackie?

549
00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:49.079
You know, um, Rose isn't home, but Mickey was at home and she's

550
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.019
lost him and it's heartbreaking and just lovely.

551
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.559
It's my favourite relationship, maybe in the era.

552
00:25:55.859 --> 00:26:01.559
It is incredible. how these 2 supporting characters grow.

553
00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:06.779
And watching this season, I realised up until Love and Monsters.

554
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:08.819
We don't really have a lot of Jackie at all.

555
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:12.059
We've got fake Jackie, but her screen time is very minimal, but

556
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:15.960
her presence is there throughout, and it's testament to the

557
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.440
writing and it's testament to the performance, just how strong it

558
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:19.680
is.

559
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:22.680
And I'm just so pleased that that 2nd last episode in the season

560
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.380
she really gets to be the Doctor Who companion and she has her

561
00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:28.259
time to shine so brightly in it.

562
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:33.900
Camille is just the best mum in the show and has not been topped

563
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:37.680
by any, or even come close to anybody. since.

564
00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:40.920
I think Jackie King is very good but I still agree with you.

565
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:43.200
Oh, in fact, I like all 3 RTD.

566
00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:46.859
Mum's a great deal, but Camille is obviously just my 1st love and

567
00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:48.180
maybe my favourite character.

568
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:49.859
Ian Dr. Hooji.

569
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.619
Nathan, Snog marry a void.

570
00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:03.539
Um, all right.

571
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.319
Oh.

572
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:05.880
Oh my god.

573
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:09.119
Oh, and just loving monsters again.

574
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:16.500
So Snog Mary Avoid, Victor Kennedy, the Azorbilov, and the Ursula

575
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:16.859
Brick.

576
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.640
I originally had the hoics or whatever it was, but I thought, I

577
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.859
don't want to snog the hoics because those teeth are massive.

578
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:28.200
They're bigger than Billy Piper's, and that's really saying

579
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:28.500
something.

580
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.980
It does seem to be a competition this year for the monsters to

581
00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:33.119
outdo Billy's tea.

582
00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:35.400
No, would you want to marry it?

583
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:39.119
No, I think, I mean, you know, Elton's a nice man. and he

584
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.720
virtually marries the Ursula Brick, so I'm sure that that's

585
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:43.559
probably a good choice.

586
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:52.079
So, um, Well, I'd have to avoid Victor Kennedy because he's got

587
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:58.619
eczema and I'd get sucked into his backside, like poor old Bliss.

588
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:00.660
And so I'm afraid.

589
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.759
Very misnamed character, wasn't it?

590
00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:03.839
There ever was one.

591
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:06.539
So I'll have to snog the...

592
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:06.779
No.

593
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.700
Yes, I'll have to snog the absorblov.

594
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.839
Marry the Absorblov.

595
00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:11.160
Who are you marrying Ursula?

596
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:12.720
I'm snogging the absorber off.

597
00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:14.579
Marrying Ursula.

598
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.500
A lifetime of misery.

599
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:18.779
Well, no, she's very happy.

600
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:20.279
She's a brick.

601
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:22.319
All right.

602
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:23.519
Oh, it's me.

603
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:26.400
Okay, what is the series arc?

604
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:27.420
For you?

605
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:29.039
What do you think of it?

606
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:32.880
I was once on a podcast with J.R.

607
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.599
Southall, and he said that the difference between Moffatt's series

608
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:39.359
arcs and RTD series arcs.

609
00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:41.700
Is it RTD's ones are purely science fiction?

610
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:46.140
So it's like the parallel universe and the Cyberman and staff, as

611
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:49.440
opposed to, say, the hybrid, which involves the doctor and Clara

612
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:50.339
or whatever?

613
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.619
I can barely remember those arcs, to be honest.

614
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:56.339
But here, for me, the series arc is what we've talked about.

615
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.900
It's Rose, Mickey and Jackie and to some degree, Pete.

616
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.539
It's the restoration of Rose's family.

617
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.319
Like Rose is neglecting all of those people.

618
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:08.579
She's lost her father.

619
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.779
She's neglecting Mickey and Jackie. in order to run off and do

620
00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:15.059
something very inadvisable with the doctor.

621
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:17.759
And she doesn't make a choice.

622
00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:20.759
She doesn't get to make a choice, but she does end up, I think

623
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.359
probably in a better place than when she started.

624
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:26.640
So for me, that's the arc.

625
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:30.420
So it's interesting because you might think it's to do with

626
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:33.000
torture, with the fact that that's throughout everything and

627
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:36.000
torture, but it's coming, but really that's more of a device, not

628
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.740
what the undercurrents are.

629
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:40.740
And I remember we were talking to Stephen B from New to Who.

630
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:46.079
And for him, this series, from what I understand, is a love

631
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:46.559
story.

632
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:48.359
And that's his arc.

633
00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:50.940
But I think I would agree more with you that it's about the

634
00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:52.140
restoration, the family.

635
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.880
The love story arc is there for Rose for most of it, there's a few

636
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.940
episodes where it perhaps isn't, which is an inconsistency which

637
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:00.720
Doctor Who does.

638
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.079
And I can see that point of view, that it's her love story.

639
00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:07.019
The doctor can never quite, this is as close as the doctor ever

640
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:08.400
gets to love with anybody.

641
00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:11.460
Besides perhaps River, song, but she's not really a companion.

642
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.180
So, I think what you've said about the fact that it's the

643
00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:18.660
restoration of this family is, in fact, the ark, even though you

644
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:22.019
might on the surface think that it's about torchwood or it's about

645
00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:23.819
a love story with rose.

646
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:26.039
It's actually, I would agree with you.

647
00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:27.059
James, Richard.

648
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.339
I would agree with you on that.

649
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:34.440
I think the Torchwood Arc is more just a series long promotion for

650
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:35.339
a spinoff series.

651
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:40.019
If only we'd got the spinoff series based on Tortured One instead

652
00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:40.619
of Torture 3.

653
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.299
We might have enjoyed that a bit more.

654
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:43.740
That's a whole other topic.

655
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:45.660
When are we doing the tortured podcast?

656
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:46.920
We're not doing that.

657
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:50.880
But I would have loved Samantha Briggs to have shown up.

658
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:56.160
I think I gushed about this at the time, but the torture audio is

659
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:01.200
where they bring back Tracy and Cyberman are fantastic and it just

660
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:05.039
makes me wish that they'd actually just done a series based on the

661
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.440
torture in Doctor Who, not that tortured and tortured.

662
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:10.200
I just wonder whether there's that much there.

663
00:31:10.259 --> 00:31:10.920
Do you know what I mean?

664
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:14.700
Like it introduces torchwood, but torchwood is just a name that's

665
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:15.180
dropped.

666
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.900
And that's how the previous arc worked.

667
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.019
You know, we had bad wolf just as a thing that got mentioned.

668
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.279
And then we discover in the final episode that that's a thing that

669
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:28.619
Billy has sent backwards and seeded throughout the season

670
00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:29.460
herself.

671
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:31.859
I would have watched the hell out of that if that had been a

672
00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:37.140
spinoff with green, tight-suited, lycrid, tennis ball hat man.

673
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:43.559
Josh, the werewolf. poke your eye out with a tennis ball

674
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:44.220
werewolf.

675
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:46.559
Yeah, I would have watched it that every fricking week.

676
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.500
Oh, so let's talk about the things that were disappointing.

677
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.839
Oh, did you get the best one?

678
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:02.039
So the pit.

679
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:06.119
So the pit we talked about this a couple of weeks ago where the

680
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.900
pit opens at the cliffhanger and the camera climbs out of it as if

681
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:12.180
something's coming to get Ida and the doctor.

682
00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.119
And of course, it turns out that it was just the camera because

683
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.160
nothing actually comes out of the pit.

684
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.539
So sorry, just to clarify, you've picked things that disappoint.

685
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:22.799
And I called it the pit.

686
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:31.559
I think what disappoints Auros Lynn's 2 episodes, so that's the

687
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:34.980
Lantern and fear her, I think they're too similar.

688
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.880
You know, like I like Doctor Who does domestic.

689
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.500
I like a small scale thing.

690
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:41.700
I get the idea.

691
00:32:41.819 --> 00:32:43.799
You know, it's not a big Doctor Who adventure.

692
00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:46.200
Austin also did tooth and claw though.

693
00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:47.700
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

694
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:48.539
See, that's good.

695
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.359
But I do think the other two, which were in one block and for one

696
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:54.299
terrifying moment, were going to be aired consecutively.

697
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:59.339
And I just don't think either of them is as good as it should be.

698
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.339
And I think Idiot Scientists better than the other one, but

699
00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:06.000
Idiot's Lantern, we said in our episode, was marred by that

700
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.440
terrible performance from Eddie, who was just terrible.

701
00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:14.039
Yeah, I think I think those 2 episodes, to me, come across as the

702
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.880
cheapest of the year, especially Fear Herb, which I'll have more

703
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:19.019
to say a bit later.

704
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:23.220
That's interesting when I listened to your podcast on the Idiot's

705
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:25.440
Lantern, I came away liking the episode a little less.

706
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:30.960
And it's the only episode this year that I actually liked a little

707
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:31.319
less.

708
00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:34.680
Everything else was either the same or better.

709
00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:39.359
So, yeah. that's probably the most disappointing aspect Well, the

710
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.640
thing I pulled out of one of the bowls was moment you'd rather

711
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:42.900
forget, which...

712
00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:44.339
It's the same thing to that, doesn't it?

713
00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:51.960
I think it has to be the paving stone fellatio scene. worst album

714
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:52.740
cover.

715
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:59.460
It's just, it just doesn't fit into the show that you're making.

716
00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:01.019
It's a snide.

717
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:02.940
I'm almost an undergraduate humour.

718
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:07.859
Taking a stab at the show we love, yeah. and putting wrong humour

719
00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:08.280
tones.

720
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:11.940
And just cheapening the relationship that's built up between those

721
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:13.619
2 characters for the whole episode.

722
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.219
I actually don't I don't know what you're talking about, James.

723
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:18.119
They snog.

724
00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:19.559
They have a bit of a love life.

725
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:20.519
They still snog.

726
00:34:20.579 --> 00:34:22.739
I don't know what on earth you are thinking.

727
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:25.440
Doctor Who does not do Snide World.

728
00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:27.719
It shouldn't ever go down there.

729
00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:29.340
Richard.

730
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:33.719
Oh, I've got what your one was just, again, disappointed.

731
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:34.920
I've got a favourite guest star.

732
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.739
I could say most disappointing guest star, but maybe often.

733
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.719
Sometimes often that's the same thing.

734
00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:41.340
Isn't it?

735
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:43.679
I'm just saying no one's really disappointed me this season.

736
00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:47.519
Even Eddie was a blustering fallen in Idiot's Lantern.

737
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:49.980
It probably is my favourite story just because it's what I listen

738
00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:53.400
to all the time, you know, the 50s nonsense on the radio.

739
00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:57.539
Even he fits nicely because he's so...

740
00:34:57.539 --> 00:35:02.519
Again, it's looking in Doctor Who from maybe even a wider angle is

741
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:05.639
that when they don't give a resolved or fully realised

742
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:06.179
performance.

743
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.699
I look at it and I think, well, that's what a lot of people are

744
00:35:08.699 --> 00:35:12.300
actually like, completely undiscovered of their own internal

745
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:17.460
territories and completely unable to register any truths of

746
00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:19.800
themselves or anybody else because they just don't know who they

747
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:20.340
are themselves.

748
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:24.719
So I think that actually the inconsistencies in performance in

749
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:26.219
that story make it work really well.

750
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:28.380
And I love Ron Cook and I love Maureen Lippman.

751
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.900
So again, Maureen, mini is actually my favourite guest in this.

752
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:33.360
Because it's just what Nathan and I would have done, given 3

753
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:35.340
quarters of a chance and half a Lippy between us.

754
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.400
It's my turn to do the stare.

755
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:41.940
Favourite guess wise. agree with you.

756
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.320
More in Lippin.

757
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:47.760
And mainly because what I discovered after we did that podcast.

758
00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:48.960
What agony?

759
00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:49.619
Agony.

760
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:51.059
Wasn't that exciting?

761
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.679
I think delving into her back catalogue, that sounds a bit

762
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.119
more...

763
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:05.519
It makes me love her even more, having found her previous work and

764
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:10.019
like Nathan and I binge watched Agne at the same time.

765
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:10.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

766
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:13.980
We were texting each other and finishing episodes sort of minutes

767
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:14.400
apart.

768
00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:16.920
I've still got to get and watch it that I'm in now, thank you.

769
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:19.380
I wish I hadn't watched Agony again afterwards.

770
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:20.579
It's a bit terrible.

771
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:24.059
Though her gay son. should I have said that?

772
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:25.260
It's quite sweet.

773
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:25.739
Yeah.

774
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.300
She is certainly a standout. in that episode and something that

775
00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:31.019
sticks in your mind.

776
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:35.880
I just wish you'd done the Gabriel Wolf voice as well. hungry.

777
00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:38.880
My favourite guest star of the year is Elizabeth Slater.

778
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:39.539
Oh, yeah.

779
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:40.440
Fair enough.

780
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:41.460
Mine's Ida.

781
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.360
I think Ida Scott in the Satan Pitt is incredibly good.

782
00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:48.059
Yeah, I don't see Liz as guest.

783
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:49.079
I see her as core cast.

784
00:36:49.139 --> 00:36:50.099
Yeah, she's family.

785
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:53.159
Yeah, She's too terrible.

786
00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:54.179
She's a recurring character.

787
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.280
In fact, really, she's got more right to be there than any of the

788
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.519
others.

789
00:36:56.579 --> 00:36:58.440
Even David Tennant.

790
00:36:58.500 --> 00:36:59.039
Well, exactly.

791
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:01.619
The other one I would then choose is Queen Victoria.

792
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:02.699
Oh yeah, yeah.

793
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:03.960
Samantha Briggs.

794
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:21.119
Let's move on to It's a Wrap, which is about end of the season, so

795
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:24.059
I'll go with Nathan.

796
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:26.639
Okay, let's see what comes out of this.

797
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:27.780
I can't remember what I put in here.

798
00:37:28.380 --> 00:37:32.280
Oh, we need Jenny Ladd Award nominations.

799
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:35.099
We've been doing a few of those already, haven't we?

800
00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:37.260
Kind of, but I've neglected.

801
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:38.820
It's a Mayor Cooper for me.

802
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:41.699
I've completely forgotten about the Jenny Laird Award and I think

803
00:37:41.699 --> 00:37:44.340
I'm happy to see it reinstated from here on.

804
00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:51.480
I think the most puzzling creative choice was giving something

805
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:56.460
like Idiots Lantern and Fear Her, to our Oslin, who's not great

806
00:37:56.460 --> 00:38:00.300
with actors, who's very good with action and moving the camera

807
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:02.880
around and stuff like that, but isn't that great with actors, and

808
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.780
those are stories that absolutely live and die by the quality of

809
00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:09.659
the act, because because they're the cheapies, and because they're

810
00:38:09.659 --> 00:38:12.659
all about family interactions and stuff like that.

811
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.659
And I think the acting needed to be better in both of those.

812
00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:18.239
James?

813
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:22.380
Well, I was going to say the scribble monster from Fear Her, but

814
00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:23.519
we love that.

815
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:27.059
But you can actually say that, James. if you want to.

816
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:33.480
I'll draw all over Richard's point from earlier in the episode has

817
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:34.860
swayed my opinion on that.

818
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:37.139
I think you're right.

819
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.440
Like as a child, big scary dirty in the closet.

820
00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:42.300
I mean, there's a whole lot to take away from it.

821
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:45.900
Yeah, actually the big scary daddy in the closet is actually quite

822
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:46.440
horrific.

823
00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:47.280
It is.

824
00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:50.699
Any little child who fear to, you know, oh, let's not go there

825
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:52.679
because there's a whole lot in this story. yeah.

826
00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:56.820
It's a pity that fear her doesn't quite hold together direction

827
00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:57.420
wise.

828
00:38:58.019 --> 00:38:58.619
Is that what it is?

829
00:38:58.679 --> 00:38:59.219
It's the direction.

830
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:00.900
Because I feel it is a strong story.

831
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.480
And honestly, as a viewer, I don't get the connection between

832
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:05.579
idiots lantern and fear at all.

833
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:08.820
I can see it in construct and looking from, but when you're in

834
00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:11.039
there, it's just, oh, no, it's all, it's completely different.

835
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.019
Because, I mean, Doctor Who only has how many stories did we

836
00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:14.159
defined in the three?

837
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:18.360
There's 12 stories in the universe and 3 on Doctor Who.

838
00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:23.760
But no, I think I think you're right.

839
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:25.320
Like, it appeals to the child.

840
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:27.900
And that, that, so, so I'm not going to say that.

841
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:29.340
I'm going to say David Tennant's teeth.

842
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:30.059
Okay.

843
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:30.659
Thank you.

844
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:31.619
Richard.

845
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:38.039
Well, I'm going to take the Nathan stick and go for go for the

846
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:41.219
very wine view, the satellite view of the series.

847
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:44.940
I think my journey Laird award might be for production.

848
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:46.440
Oh, can I go this far?

849
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:49.380
Production arcing tone from season one to season two.

850
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.699
I feel we've actually gone from Ridley Scott to James Cameron.

851
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.360
And I know that that's the way the series will go forever on and

852
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.239
it guarantees bums onseatsuccess.com.

853
00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:06.119
But I really love the portmanteau talented amateur approach to

854
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.519
season one, though, what the hell are we doing running by the skin

855
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:10.260
of our pants, Heath Robertson?

856
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.260
Let's just bundle it all together and do something whimsical and

857
00:40:13.260 --> 00:40:13.679
magical.

858
00:40:13.739 --> 00:40:18.900
When Disney was actually still fun to corporate Disney, which we

859
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:21.780
now have with this season, that everything's been studied, and

860
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:26.099
it's all been looked at through the lens of a viewscreen rather

861
00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:28.860
than a monocle, and it's been it's suited.

862
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:31.079
It's suited and tied and it's proper.

863
00:40:31.139 --> 00:40:32.460
And I know what it's doing.

864
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:37.079
I can see where it's going and I don't like the sense of the

865
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:37.980
construct.

866
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:43.019
The form is lovely, but formulaic is not Doctor Who.

867
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:45.119
This is why I still love the Graham Williams era.

868
00:40:45.179 --> 00:40:48.539
And anything that Douglas Adams did, it's still my go-to for

869
00:40:48.539 --> 00:40:51.539
viewing because it's dangerously untidy.

870
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.280
And I sort of miss that.

871
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:55.260
I absolutely agree with you.

872
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.280
And I don't know whether I've said this recently, but the thing

873
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.159
about series one is that they don't know that it's going to be

874
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:02.760
successful.

875
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:03.840
No, you really don't.

876
00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:07.019
But when they're making it, they've got no idea of what the

877
00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:10.679
reaction is, they go into series 2 knowing that this is going to

878
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:16.380
be the biggest show on TV and they know that fans will put up with

879
00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:21.179
a whole lot more fanboyness than they were prepared to do in

880
00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:22.019
series one.

881
00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:27.599
So series one seems to me to be super experimental in a way that

882
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:29.159
series 2 isn't.

883
00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:34.559
And I really feel that I think you've expressed that really well.

884
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.440
This is all very metal.

885
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.559
I was going to say that this week.

886
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:41.579
We not up to Moffat yet.

887
00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:44.460
Because I go for much more obvious things.

888
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:45.719
I've got multiple nominations.

889
00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:46.559
I'm just going to start.

890
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:49.320
The entire terrible London Olympics from fear her.

891
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:51.539
Well, yeah.

892
00:41:51.539 --> 00:41:53.099
The old grand from fear.

893
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:55.139
Oh, she was my favourite.

894
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.420
I was her, let's say.

895
00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:59.340
My name's Chloe Webber.

896
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:00.239
From Fear Her.

897
00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:02.280
The mother from Fear Herb for ruining.

898
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.199
Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree.

899
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:05.159
She did ruin it.

900
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:06.840
Mary, Mary King of the Bushes.

901
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.139
He.

902
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.000
Todd's going to give this story a three.

903
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:13.079
Eddie Connolly from Idiot Lantern.

904
00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:14.760
John Lumick.

905
00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:16.199
Oh yeah, he's bad.

906
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:23.639
From the 1st Simon and 2 Parter, and Ricky, from The Cyberman 2

907
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.360
Parter, played by Noel Clark, is also in my nominations, because

908
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:30.539
he just gives angry sex face the entire episode, and I hate that

909
00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:31.860
creative puzzling choice.

910
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:33.539
James and I are clutching each other.

911
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:34.139
Yes.

912
00:42:34.139 --> 00:42:37.800
Where is my Noel Clark angry sex face?

913
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:40.619
I had to say this, I think, Noel, it's Mickey.

914
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:42.960
I'm just ignoring. ignoring, I'm ignoring.

915
00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:45.900
Sorry, I'm just ignoring everything that you've just said.

916
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:48.420
You know, that whole thing when they growl when they, oh, I know, I

917
00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:49.500
love angry sex first.

918
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:50.760
I know that you're listening.

919
00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:53.159
Are we allowed to say angry sex face on the podcast?

920
00:42:53.219 --> 00:42:54.059
It's going to be the time.

921
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:54.480
Tag.

922
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:58.739
You always approach these with such professionalism and they

923
00:42:58.739 --> 00:43:01.739
always demount into blanc mange, don't they?

924
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:02.699
They do.

925
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:05.039
I'd like blame out...

926
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:09.599
Look, you had a really good discussion about why he was like that

927
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:11.460
in the bravado that he was putting on.

928
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:13.079
I'm not sold.

929
00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:17.039
And I think Noel's performance as Mickey is so nuanced in that

930
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.699
story.

931
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:21.480
As a contrast, I find that other performance one note.

932
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:23.579
So I'm putting it up for a nomination.

933
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:25.139
So they're all my nominations.

934
00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:28.500
But surprise, surprise, they're not the winner. that Jenny

935
00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:32.400
Eledwald goes to the end of Love and Monsters turning Ushua into

936
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.519
the brick, which I really dislike.

937
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:37.500
I don't know how you could get around it.

938
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.800
He's never going to be able to move on with his life.

939
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.639
And I just think that she should have had a moment with him and

940
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:45.000
died.

941
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.920
And I just think it was the wrong choice.

942
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:50.460
And that ruin, that ending ruins that story for me.

943
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.400
You have to remember that when I 1st saw this story, I gave it a

944
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:54.840
one out of 10, right?

945
00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:58.440
And over the years, I've actually grown to love so much of it.

946
00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:01.139
But when it gets to that, it just...

947
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:05.519
We actually are recording this on the weekend that I'm editing and

948
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:07.440
releasing the Love and Monsters episode.

949
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:11.340
So I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.

950
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:15.059
Everyone listening to this now or many of the people listening to

951
00:44:15.059 --> 00:44:18.900
this episode now will have heard that episode already and our take

952
00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:23.760
on what happens to Ursula and that very objection, that it would

953
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:25.139
have been better if she died.

954
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.340
So we do talk about that and have a listen to it because I was

955
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:33.659
surprised by where that episode of FTE ended up going.

956
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.800
See, to me, that story is the 6 out of 10 and that's because of

957
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:38.219
the ending.

958
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:40.019
You know, and I used to hate it.

959
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:43.260
But now I really love so much of it. all the Jackie Elton stuff

960
00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:43.920
and all that team.

961
00:44:43.980 --> 00:44:47.159
But it just, at the end, just is ruined.

962
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:49.800
And for me, that's my Jenny Letterboard.

963
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:51.239
Sorry, Russell, but you get it.

964
00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:54.000
Yeah, well, you've been wrong before.

965
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.900
Rarely, Nathan.

966
00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:58.980
Rarely.

967
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:05.099
Oh, Todd.

968
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:09.840
What do you think of series 2 now?

969
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:13.019
What do you think of series 2 now?

970
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:16.079
As opposed to back as opposed to back then. back then I just saw

971
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.099
it as a wonderful romp.

972
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.739
And we were terribly excited.

973
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:23.099
There's the thrill, the Elan of never having seen something

974
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:23.699
before.

975
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:27.239
And we watched a lot of these, if you recall, back at Nathan's

976
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.300
house with Todd in the room, so no one was allowed just...

977
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:33.539
We watched them very carefully.

978
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:38.039
We did, and which is not something we do anymore because we've got

979
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:41.880
laptops and flip tops and duck hair and everything else that we

980
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:44.460
all do, you know, it's all very post-David Tenet.

981
00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:47.940
I don't go back to these now.

982
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:49.139
It's interesting, isn't it?

983
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:51.900
But the thing that I really, really, that I have enjoyed watching

984
00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:55.800
again this season is the arcing of characterisations and the

985
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:58.559
musical comedy sense of it again.

986
00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:02.159
So, yes, I think we've touched on all of those people of import.

987
00:46:02.219 --> 00:46:03.659
I do like the variants in tone.

988
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.420
I do like that we jump from tooth and claw.

989
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:11.159
Then we get Satan Pitt, we get a whole lot of lovely things that

990
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:14.519
if we think back to our childhoods, we remember Doctor Who being

991
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.800
as good as this, if not a little bit better, but it really

992
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:17.400
wasn't.

993
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:20.760
You'd sort of have to wait 3 years to get everything that we've

994
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:24.179
had in one year, it does feel like 3 years worth of stories.

995
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:28.679
So, if I think of it, no, I see it as far more polished than I

996
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.139
would remember it because they've put more time into it.

997
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:36.719
But again, it doesn't quite have the sense of newly discovered joy

998
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:40.619
the freshly hatched feeling that the year before.

999
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:44.280
I'm interested to see what comes along for season 3 and how I feel

1000
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:44.579
about that.

1001
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:50.280
It's interesting because this of the 1st 5 seasons of Doctor Who's

1002
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.619
always been my least liked.

1003
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:57.539
And it came down to the cyberman stories, which I really rated

1004
00:46:57.539 --> 00:46:58.980
quite averagely.

1005
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:04.139
And all of those episodes, especially the 1st parts of both of the

1006
00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:04.980
2 partners.

1007
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:09.119
I've just really have enjoyed so much more, like 9 out of 10s

1008
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:10.980
whereas they were 7 before.

1009
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:14.039
And that's really impacted on my enjoyment of this season.

1010
00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:20.639
And all of the stories bar, fear her and Idiots Lantern, have in

1011
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:23.820
some way increased in my mind.

1012
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:27.900
So it's really been a rehabilitation of this entire season in the

1013
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:28.800
arc for me.

1014
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:31.980
I think I remain sort of more or less unchanged.

1015
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:35.400
I feel the way that Richard and I were talking about the

1016
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:39.539
relationships between series one and 2 that there's something a

1017
00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:42.179
bit less exciting about coming at it for the 2nd year.

1018
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:46.079
But I think I've also said this year that as well as writing it

1019
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:50.460
confident in the fact that it'll be well received, they are also

1020
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:53.760
writing it, having learned what worked and what didn't work last

1021
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:54.119
year.

1022
00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:58.559
And so Series one has a very, very special place in my heart.

1023
00:47:58.619 --> 00:48:01.619
But I think series 2 is is very good and I think I probably always

1024
00:48:01.619 --> 00:48:02.639
have thought that.

1025
00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:05.159
Do you have anything to add, James?

1026
00:48:05.219 --> 00:48:11.639
Look, I think that series 2 is not it doesn't have as much joy and

1027
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:13.739
spontaneity in it as series one.

1028
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:18.539
It is more polished and it is more consistent for the most part.

1029
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:23.340
I think they've worked out what works for them stylistically and

1030
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:27.360
what works with the way that the show is structured now.

1031
00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:35.579
Um, There are a few episodes that don't quite fit or um, don't

1032
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:40.559
quite gel in the, in the way that you'd like them to, but overall

1033
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:42.719
it's a much more level season.

1034
00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:47.699
It doesn't have the highs and lows that parts of series one had.

1035
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:53.280
But, um, I think it it lacks something because of the, the lack of

1036
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.940
sort of less throw everything and the kitchen sink at it, which

1037
00:48:56.940 --> 00:48:59.639
series one had. like we've got to make this a success.

1038
00:48:59.699 --> 00:49:03.719
We just have to, you know, let's give it an arrow.

1039
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:06.179
Whereas I think they're a bit more relaxed there.

1040
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:11.340
And you end up with something which is probably a bit more...

1041
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:14.639
See, I think this has got a lower load in fear her.

1042
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:17.159
I don't think there's anything as close to that as the previous

1043
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:17.579
season.

1044
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:19.860
That's my only difference of opinion, perhaps there.

1045
00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:21.360
All right, here's here's a topic for you.

1046
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:24.119
Daleks or Cyberman.

1047
00:49:24.179 --> 00:49:28.800
I think this is an old age one where Doctor Who fans of classic

1048
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:29.820
Elk.

1049
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.179
Are you a Spider-Man person or are you a Dalek person?

1050
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:37.619
You could be both, but for me, I've always been a dialect person

1051
00:49:37.619 --> 00:49:41.699
which is why this season perhaps suffered a bit because it was the

1052
00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:42.480
cyberman.

1053
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:47.219
I really never really enjoyed a lot of the Sidemen stories in

1054
00:49:47.219 --> 00:49:49.500
Classic Who as much as I enjoyed the Dalek stories, although

1055
00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:52.079
Revenge of the Side of them, I really enjoyed.

1056
00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:54.420
But for the side of them, that's more than the side women.

1057
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.480
But it was really interesting discussions that you had during the

1058
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:00.719
year in the podcast talking about the fact that this year the

1059
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.719
cybermen have got back to actually being cybermen and converting

1060
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:07.019
people, which is something that never really happened from the 70s

1061
00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:08.099
onwards in Doctor Who.

1062
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:10.619
So I actually found them a lot more disturbing this time around.

1063
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:12.780
But I'm still a Dalek person over a cyberman person.

1064
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:17.159
Well, I mean, the sidemen are very much after the moon base, just

1065
00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:20.639
the monsters that come along when Terry Nation's in LA trying to

1066
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:21.900
flog the dialects.

1067
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:27.780
And so they always have that sort of 2nd rate sort of feel to

1068
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:27.960
them.

1069
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:35.940
And so I think that Russell does a tremendous job reinventing the

1070
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:38.880
Cybermen, and I think the stories, the Cybermen stories are great

1071
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:44.159
here and he really gives the Sidemen a shot in the arm, which then

1072
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:47.159
Moffatt will go on to do much later as well.

1073
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.099
But yeah, it's the Daleks.

1074
00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:57.539
Well, I refute your heteronormative binary condition. in this and

1075
00:50:57.539 --> 00:50:59.820
I think you can actually have everything at once.

1076
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:03.780
And again, I only, I don't really have a preference, but I like

1077
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:06.539
them when they're both together at the end.

1078
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:11.039
And then it proves to me there's sort of the, why that is such a

1079
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:12.059
special moment.

1080
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:16.380
Okay, I'm going to meta the hell out of this, is that, right at

1081
00:51:16.380 --> 00:51:22.260
the end with Doomsday, you see the antagonists, you see the threat

1082
00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:24.840
do we say ostensible threat from another bingo point to this?

1083
00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:27.179
I hope you've got your card there because we've covered a lot of

1084
00:51:27.179 --> 00:51:34.019
them today, is that they're both ineffectual, numbing and numbed

1085
00:51:34.019 --> 00:51:39.059
themselves and with such very small apertures to life.

1086
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:41.579
They are pretty much having just gone through an election that I

1087
00:51:41.579 --> 00:51:43.019
don't feel very comfortable about.

1088
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:46.380
Some of our listeners are still going through Brexit and we have

1089
00:51:46.380 --> 00:51:49.800
other listeners who are dealing with what's happening in the US

1090
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:53.579
and I feel wherever we are, we have to remember that those that

1091
00:51:53.579 --> 00:51:57.179
wish to threaten and control, when we look at them from a great

1092
00:51:57.179 --> 00:51:58.920
enough position standing back.

1093
00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:01.559
And I'm thinking about some of the camera angles they got with

1094
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:06.239
that crane in that massive loading dock hall, with the big Dalek

1095
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:07.139
ball, James.

1096
00:52:07.139 --> 00:52:10.559
And yes.

1097
00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:10.920
Thank you.

1098
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:14.219
All of that is that you could see actually how small and futile

1099
00:52:14.219 --> 00:52:17.340
and such hurt little 2 year olds.

1100
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:20.340
They all are, both the Daleks and the sidemen, and that it's

1101
00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:23.639
really just representing such a very small part of ourselves that

1102
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:25.380
is only large when we allow it to be.

1103
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:27.539
It's why they scream, isn't it?

1104
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.760
It's why the Dalek scream.

1105
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:32.219
Yeah.

1106
00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:37.860
Yeah, that really, these valuable lessons to try against

1107
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:43.380
microcontrol against trying to tell others what to do. isn't that

1108
00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:45.300
really what Russell's been telling us all the time?

1109
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:46.619
Enjoy your messiness.

1110
00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:47.639
Enjoy your rust.

1111
00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:52.380
You know, but Liz and I and K9 have quite a bit of rust on us and

1112
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:53.699
I'm celebrating it right now.

1113
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:56.760
James Heidman or Daleks or both or neither.

1114
00:52:56.820 --> 00:53:00.119
Well, I refuse both.

1115
00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:03.539
I choose I choose the axles.

1116
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:05.159
Axons.

1117
00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:06.000
I love the axel.

1118
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:07.440
Why hadn't they been brought back?

1119
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:09.719
Well, they were. painted green.

1120
00:53:09.780 --> 00:53:11.519
No, they were too.

1121
00:53:11.579 --> 00:53:14.159
Yeah, look, I mean, the Daleks in this happened.

1122
00:53:14.219 --> 00:53:17.280
Yes, look, there are all these fun stories, but there's so much

1123
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.880
more to this show than those 2 enemies.

1124
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:23.699
There's so many more stories that you can tell.

1125
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.000
I find those stories often very limiting.

1126
00:53:27.059 --> 00:53:27.780
I enjoy them.

1127
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:34.320
But what can you do after you've done the invasion plotline, the

1128
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:36.000
you know, loss of humanity plotline?

1129
00:53:36.059 --> 00:53:36.900
What else is there?

1130
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:46.019
Okay, we're heading towards our final 2 topics.

1131
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:50.280
The 1st one is David Tennant and Billy Piper.

1132
00:53:50.460 --> 00:53:52.440
Battle of the teeth.

1133
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.219
And that's our title.

1134
00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:58.920
It is like an Ultraman episode, isn't it?

1135
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:03.780
Do they work together as well as Eccles and Billy did?

1136
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:05.820
I think they work better.

1137
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:08.280
I think they do work very well together.

1138
00:54:08.340 --> 00:54:09.659
Different pictures. is, yeah.

1139
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:11.099
Because they're friends.

1140
00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:14.699
By the end of series one, nobody's a friend with Christopher

1141
00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:15.360
Eccleston.

1142
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:16.800
You do get that sense, don't you?

1143
00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:17.579
But I really like that.

1144
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:21.239
But watching it, I find that tension really interesting.

1145
00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:22.260
The doctor is a loner.

1146
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:24.360
He's a deeply unhappy, lonely person.

1147
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:24.960
I'm right here.

1148
00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:28.679
And I feel that I feel that that just lends so much grit and

1149
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.019
weight in my in past stories.

1150
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:36.000
The one where Tom says goodbye to Liz, the one where Pert says

1151
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:39.900
goodbye. without even looking them in the eye. without even

1152
00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:40.739
looking them in the eye.

1153
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:42.599
They're the precious moments for me, Todd.

1154
00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:43.980
But you're quite right, Richard.

1155
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:47.639
Like we've got the same situation with Sarah Jane Smith and the

1156
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:48.840
3rd doctor, that dynamic.

1157
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:50.460
I love that dynamic.

1158
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.099
But it's very different to the 4th doctor and Sarah Jane.

1159
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:56.159
It's the same with Clara and the 11 and Clara and 12.

1160
00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:01.199
And I think if one thing I can take away from this is that having

1161
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:06.300
a companion with 2 doctors and having like a year with each really

1162
00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:10.500
all these quick companion changeovers just before a doctor leaves

1163
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:12.480
or at the same time, I think you're robbed of something.

1164
00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:13.980
Yeah.

1165
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.739
I wish Janet had stayed for 10 years now.

1166
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:19.980
I mean, wouldn't Janet have been amazing with Colin, though?

1167
00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:21.119
Yeah, yeah, just for those.

1168
00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:22.500
Someone who couldn't bully.

1169
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.480
Well, it would have been great.

1170
00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:27.300
But we've all seen that interfix with sometimes.

1171
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:30.900
I think one of the things about David Tennant's performance this

1172
00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:34.260
year is that, and you've hit upon this a number of times, Nathan

1173
00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:37.559
is that when we're away from it, we go into the default of, yes

1174
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:40.500
it's all big hair and his shtick and everything, but you come back

1175
00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:44.280
to it and you watch these episodes and he, I'm totally entertained

1176
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:44.820
by him.

1177
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:47.159
Totally in the moment, right?

1178
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:49.980
And I'll rubbish him, you know, away from it.

1179
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:52.679
It's a bit like what happened with Pertwee in the 90s with fandom

1180
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:54.599
is that he got rubbished and then you come back to it and you

1181
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:57.239
actually realise this is so enjoyable and you're so good.

1182
00:55:57.300 --> 00:55:58.260
Yeah.

1183
00:55:58.320 --> 00:55:59.039
I think that's right.

1184
00:55:59.099 --> 00:56:01.679
I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing how I react to his

1185
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:04.079
performances in series 3 and four.

1186
00:56:04.139 --> 00:56:07.800
But he has some great moments all the way through.

1187
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:10.800
I think we're actually just seeing Mirror Universe.

1188
00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:12.000
Tom Zero.

1189
00:56:12.059 --> 00:56:14.880
So he'll be meeting Louise Jamieson next year, won't he?

1190
00:56:14.940 --> 00:56:16.860
We're counting it.

1191
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:18.059
Yes, I wonder how that will go.

1192
00:56:18.119 --> 00:56:19.800
Any thoughts, James?

1193
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:22.380
I think David Turner's a very good actor.

1194
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:28.139
But he's limited by, and I think, Nathan, you've said this a

1195
00:56:28.139 --> 00:56:31.860
number of times before, he's limited by having to do the Cod

1196
00:56:31.860 --> 00:56:34.619
Cockney Dick Van Dyke accent.

1197
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:40.380
And when he's doing a quiet, considered scene, he's brilliant, but

1198
00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:43.019
when he's doing the doctor shtick.

1199
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:45.000
It can be grating.

1200
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:45.900
You still enjoy it.

1201
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:48.059
I still enjoy all of series two.

1202
00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:51.960
I think he gets better as he goes further on.

1203
00:56:52.019 --> 00:56:57.840
Series 4 is still my favourite season, I think, of the new series

1204
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:05.639
because of the fact that you end up with Catherine Tate and she's

1205
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:07.739
a bloody good actress.

1206
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:11.039
I mean, she's, she's, whatever you think of her comedy.

1207
00:57:11.099 --> 00:57:12.420
I enjoy her comedy.

1208
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:17.639
But she's a very good actress and I think, you know, not getting

1209
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:18.420
ahead of ourselves.

1210
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:24.900
When David Turn is given more to work with, he's very good.

1211
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:26.760
He rises to that performance?

1212
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:27.239
Yeah.

1213
00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:27.840
Yeah.

1214
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.179
He's okay in series two.

1215
00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:31.079
All right.

1216
00:57:31.139 --> 00:57:34.860
Well, let's talk about the departing cast member, Billy Piper.

1217
00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:38.519
I think she's been an absolute, amazing actress these 2 seasons.

1218
00:57:38.579 --> 00:57:41.519
She sells every scene that she's in, the tears that she can

1219
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:43.980
produce and the emotions.

1220
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:48.119
We've discussed so much about roses, immaturity and self

1221
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:48.119
centredness.

1222
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:50.760
But I just have to praise Billy Pipe.

1223
00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:55.440
But without her being the backbone of these 2 series, with her

1224
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:59.159
supporting cast members, the show would just not have survived

1225
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:00.239
would not have been a success.

1226
00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:01.019
That's my opinion.

1227
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:03.360
Yeah She's the new series Barbara.

1228
00:58:03.420 --> 00:58:05.579
No, in fact, Camille, also new series, Barbara.

1229
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:10.619
She is an incredible actor, and remember, at the time, it was that

1230
00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:12.539
sort of usual fan thing.

1231
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:18.360
We think it's a recent phenomenon, but fan anger about casting

1232
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:22.260
this pop starlers in our very important serious science fiction

1233
00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:22.860
program.

1234
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:26.880
But she ended up being extraordinary.

1235
00:58:26.940 --> 00:58:32.219
And the big question that the show has now is how does it survive

1236
00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:33.059
her departure.

1237
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.699
Because it starts with her.

1238
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:42.059
The show is about her and her family and she's about to go and

1239
00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:46.980
that's going to blow up the entire show and it's just, I remember

1240
00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:48.239
thinking at the time.

1241
00:58:48.300 --> 00:58:49.800
What do we do?

1242
00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:52.380
What can season 3 even be?

1243
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:56.039
You've got ESP again because my final question was about season

1244
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:56.519
three.

1245
00:58:56.579 --> 00:59:00.239
What are we hoping to discover and the questions that need to be

1246
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:00.719
asked.

1247
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:02.880
So you've just answered that.

1248
00:59:02.940 --> 00:59:04.139
You're right.

1249
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:07.079
Like the show doesn't recover until Russell leaves.

1250
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:12.059
From, from, from, from the fact he made her so integral to the

1251
00:59:12.059 --> 00:59:12.300
pot.

1252
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:12.719
I agree.

1253
00:59:12.780 --> 00:59:13.139
I agree.

1254
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:14.340
There's a loss.

1255
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:15.900
There's a loss that we all feel.

1256
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:16.920
Maybe we're meant to feel that.

1257
00:59:16.980 --> 00:59:18.659
He really is that dark.

1258
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:21.900
So you're saying that that sort of hangs over the series until

1259
00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:23.880
that's all wrapped up in series four?

1260
00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:28.139
I can serve this series, definitely, with series 3 suffers because

1261
00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:31.079
everybody's like, who is this Martha who cares?

1262
00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:32.880
Series 4 is great.

1263
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:35.579
But until you bring her back and then write her out completely

1264
00:59:35.579 --> 00:59:38.940
again with the spare doctor.

1265
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:40.679
We're getting ahead of ourselves.

1266
00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:45.000
No, but just to go on that line, then you get the durning war of

1267
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:50.039
this doctor losing his shtick and everything falling apart when

1268
00:59:50.039 --> 00:59:52.199
he's gnashing his teeth in waters of Mars.

1269
00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:56.880
I don't care, you know, that if, well, it's a great audition for

1270
00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:57.780
Hamlet, isn't it?

1271
00:59:57.840 --> 00:59:58.860
I guess so.

1272
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:00.960
Which he was doing at the time.

1273
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:02.219
Which he was doing at the time.

1274
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:05.460
Yeah, there is that sense of, yes, there's there's the teen

1275
01:00:05.460 --> 01:00:10.079
warrior, even though he's not a child, but he I definitely get the

1276
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:11.039
sense of Tina.

1277
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:15.900
Yeah, a Twinkie-Tink. having, having found love, lost it and

1278
01:00:15.900 --> 01:00:17.699
really never coming to terms with that.

1279
01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:21.900
And I'm quite serious on the Louise Jamison tone for next season

1280
01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:24.719
because I suspect I'll be getting someone who's lost what he loved

1281
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:28.860
and is going to not be taking it all too well and maybe taking it

1282
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:29.340
out on others.

1283
01:00:29.820 --> 01:00:34.440
You know, for me, it's going to be the rehabilitation of Martha

1284
01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:37.980
her mother, the master, the 3 M's. the 3 things I'm looking at for

1285
01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:40.619
next season, which I had problems with at the time.

1286
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:42.900
You'll love it, Todd.

1287
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:43.320
I know you.

1288
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:47.579
Nine out of 10. 9 out of 10 people, 9 out of 10.

1289
01:01:14.820 --> 01:01:18.119
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week, and

1290
01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:19.619
for this series of Doctor Who.

1291
01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:22.679
We'll be back for Christmas in July with a commentary podcast on

1292
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:23.699
the Runaway Bride.

1293
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:27.719
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1294
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:30.900
and you can keep up with us at FlightsRentirety.com, flight

1295
01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:34.380
through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1296
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:38.340
You can also find our series 11 flashcast Jody Interterterra at

1297
01:01:38.340 --> 01:01:42.300
Jody Interterra.com and at Jody Interterra on Twitter and our

1298
01:01:42.300 --> 01:01:46.320
James Bond commentary podcast Bondfinger at bondfinger.com at

1299
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:49.679
bondfinger on Facebook and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

1300
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:54.539
Until next time, may you always remember to keep a firm hold on

1301
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:56.820
the damn lever, for God's sake.

1302
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:58.980
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1303
01:01:59.039 --> 01:01:59.760
Good night.

1304
01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:00.539
See you soon.

1305
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:01.260
Good thing.

1306
01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:07.800
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan

1307
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:09.659
Bottomley, James Selwood, and Richard Stone.

1308
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:12.599
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane

1309
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:13.260
Orberg.

1310
01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:16.679
This episode, probably in a better place than when she started, was

1311
01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:20.340
recorded on the 19th of May 2019 and released on the 16th of

1312
01:02:20.340 --> 01:02:20.519
June.

1313
01:02:23.579 --> 01:02:27.300
We'd like to thank all of the people who joined us this series, Liz

1314
01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:30.960
Miles, Adam Richards, Stephen and Dan from New to Who, Max Gelbart

1315
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:32.579
Simon Moore, and Peter Griffiths.

1316
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:35.760
We'll be back soon, but in the meantime, keep watching the teeth.

1317
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:39.719
I had 3 more Snog Barrier Boys.

1318
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:42.900
We'll do it for the do it for the do it.

1319
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:43.800
No, no, tell us what they are.

1320
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:44.340
Tell us what they are.

1321
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:44.880
Okay.

1322
01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:47.099
The 1st one was Strong Mary avoid.

1323
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:49.860
Toby Z, Zachary Cross Splain, Danny Barton.

1324
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:51.480
All three, all of them.

1325
01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:52.019
Okay.

1326
01:02:52.019 --> 01:02:52.920
At the same time.

1327
01:02:52.980 --> 01:02:54.420
At the same time.

1328
01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:56.039
Nog, then marry, then avoid them.

1329
01:02:56.099 --> 01:02:56.460
Okay.

1330
01:02:56.699 --> 01:03:00.119
That's very clever because you may have the same answer to this.

1331
01:03:00.179 --> 01:03:01.320
Stock Mary avoid.

1332
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:03.300
King Louis, Captain Reynolds, Mr. Wagner.

1333
01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:05.820
Oh, wait, wait, who's Mr. Wagner?

1334
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:08.760
The teacher from the other teacher.

1335
01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:10.619
Oh, the hot teacher from...

1336
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:11.099
Yeah, yeah.

1337
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:12.000
Yeah, he is hot.

1338
01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:14.099
And my five, all of them at the one time.

1339
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:16.440
Yes, and then you snog and then you avoid them.

1340
01:03:16.500 --> 01:03:17.099
Thank you, James.

1341
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:18.059
And then the other one.

1342
01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:18.900
Just pass them on.

1343
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:19.800
No, I meant all six.

1344
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:24.719
Which he might want to make it 9 because here's my other one we

1345
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.340
didn't get 2 Snog Mary avoid.

1346
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:27.599
Mickey, Ricky, Jake.

1347
01:03:27.659 --> 01:03:30.119
Oh, oh, avoid Jake.

1348
01:03:31.380 --> 01:03:37.739
He's got some very good facial cleansing work done since he's

1349
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:38.940
actually looking quite pretty now.

1350
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:40.079
I hate the hair.

1351
01:03:40.139 --> 01:03:43.260
I hate it so much He was really struggling with his acne at the

1352
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:43.440
time.

1353
01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:46.679
No, but I'm talking about his kids' TV presenter here.

1354
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:49.800
H from Steps.

1355
01:03:51.659 --> 01:03:52.079
Here goes.