WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:54:59 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.659 Hello, Delissa and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the only 2 00:00:39.659 --> 00:00:43.259 Doctor Who podcast that's armed with Dalek guns and ready to fall 3 00:00:43.259 --> 00:00:45.960 over and die whenever that's required by the plot. 4 00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:47.100 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:48.179 James. 6 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:49.200 I'm Peter. 7 00:00:49.259 --> 00:00:55.020 I am a human darling. for this episode. 8 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:57.179 Hi, and a little bit camped. 9 00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:58.920 Just a little. 10 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:00.840 Uncle Arthur. 11 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:03.539 It's Peter Laurie and a negligee. 12 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.620 Well, we've been standing here for an entire week admiring the 13 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:11.280 terrifying animatronic penises adorning Dalek sex face and 14 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.260 wondering what on earth is going to happen next. 15 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:16.920 Let's see if Dalek Set can accomplish something not even Eric 16 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:20.459 Seywood could manage, evolution of the Daleks. 17 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:45.120 So we didn't really get much of a chance to talk about this last 18 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.599 week, but that mask is shockingly bad. 19 00:01:48.659 --> 00:01:49.859 It's terrible. 20 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:50.700 Is it? 21 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:52.079 Well I kind of think so. 22 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:53.700 I think it's Gay Hilaire. 23 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:59.219 I think the problem with it is that the actor can't breathe 24 00:01:59.219 --> 00:01:59.819 through his nose. 25 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:04.799 And so every line of dialogue sounds like it's being delivered by 26 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.439 someone who has got their fingers up their nose. 27 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:12.240 So he sounds like this and it's very difficult to take anything 28 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:13.560 that he says seriously. 29 00:02:13.620 --> 00:02:18.840 And how would you feel if you've been shoved into a brass bolted 30 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.860 front tense caro loader and squished about, at least it dry 31 00:02:22.860 --> 00:02:24.180 cleaned your suit. lovely though, didn't it? 32 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:27.060 In fact, there's a bit of mucus on this. 33 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:31.139 It looks like that one of those Dalek anyway. 34 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.379 Dalek emoleans. product. 35 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:36.960 I think he's also sabotaged slightly by the accent. 36 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:39.000 Yeah, the accent doesn't help. 37 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:41.039 And the animatronics... 38 00:02:41.099 --> 00:02:41.699 Yeah, Willies. 39 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:43.979 Yeah, I mean, what we're skirting around is it's basically dalek 40 00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:45.539 bum with dalek penises attached. 41 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:46.439 Yeah, yeah. 42 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:46.860 Yeah. 43 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:48.360 And, you know, there's a lot of tradition. 44 00:02:48.419 --> 00:02:51.599 We have talked about this on the podcast before, but there is a 45 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:55.919 long tradition of Doctor Who monsters that in some way resemble 46 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:59.819 human genitalia, and it's an honourable tradition, which includes 47 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:03.960 the verboids and erato and obviously the draconians. 48 00:03:04.259 --> 00:03:06.780 Maybe I just need to see my doctor. 49 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:10.979 Everything was thrown at Captain Jack. 50 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:16.319 That's right And so, you know, I don't think we can complain about 51 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:21.419 that, but I do think he's got a really crucial role to sell here 52 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:25.199 because we move from the Daleks as a metaphor for capitalism, I 53 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:31.860 think, into that sort of Whitakarian idea about Daleks and humans 54 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:33.900 the Dalek factor and the human factor. 55 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.800 And we saw that play out incredibly well in evil of the Daleks. 56 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:40.800 It's perhaps the best thing about Evil of the Daleks. 57 00:03:40.860 --> 00:03:47.639 And here we've got to buy the idea that, you know, SEC has chosen 58 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.520 to merge with humanity because humanity is sort of violent and 59 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:54.479 warlike and survives at all cost and thrives and all of that. 60 00:03:54.539 --> 00:03:58.439 But he ends up adopting all of these sort of negative human 61 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.400 emotions like empathy and compassion and stuff. 62 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:09.659 Yeah, but he's got a big rubber thing on his head. 63 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:13.020 But what is it he actually wants to do? 64 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:16.439 I mean, he wants to progress the Dalek's evolution. 65 00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:16.920 Okay. 66 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:19.620 But by adding the human factor, that's going to make him more 67 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:21.180 empathetic and open to change. 68 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.319 Evil and Dalek's got it. 69 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:24.720 Why does he then need the doctor to help them? 70 00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:26.819 Why does it mean that he's no longer a Dalek? 71 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:28.139 Yeah. 72 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:33.360 There's that incredible speech by Hugh Korschi's character by 73 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:38.879 Solomon from Hooverville, where he, I think it's an extraordinary 74 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.220 speech, and I think he delivers it really, really well. 75 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:46.079 And he kind of says if you have compassion kind of spare us and 76 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:50.639 they kill immediately, but the way that sex stops the doctor from 77 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:54.180 being killed is meant to indicate that he's got compassion. 78 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:57.899 But it's more than that because he actually reacts to Solomon's 79 00:04:57.899 --> 00:04:59.459 death with shock. 80 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:01.680 That actually he plays quite well. 81 00:05:01.740 --> 00:05:02.759 He does. 82 00:05:02.819 --> 00:05:05.220 And that's one of the bits of the episode, I think, works very 83 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:08.579 well because also Dalek, whoever it is, by his side looks at him 84 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:11.759 when he does that and is going, oh, oh, that's the moment when 85 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.740 they go, we have to get rid of this bloke. 86 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:15.060 I mean, you can see it coming. 87 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:18.779 It is all sort of rather obvious and it's telegraphed. 88 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:22.620 The doctor gives that speech about music and what music's for. 89 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:29.040 And that scene ends with Dalek Sec picking up the broken radio and 90 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:30.300 just looking at it. 91 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.819 And so it's telegraphed, deliberately telegraphed. 92 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:34.139 We know where this is going. 93 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.620 Yeah, and even though, you know, Solomon's speech is all right. 94 00:05:37.740 --> 00:05:40.500 I don't know if it actually fulfils anything in the plot. 95 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.139 I mean, yes, I see what they're trying to do, but we know he's 96 00:05:43.139 --> 00:05:44.639 just going to get exterminated straight away. 97 00:05:44.699 --> 00:05:45.779 So what's the point of the speech? 98 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:50.699 I guess it is to kind of exhibit the human factor to show what 99 00:05:50.699 --> 00:05:52.560 humanity is like. 100 00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:56.459 And we've had humanity characterised as, you know, the face of 101 00:05:56.459 --> 00:06:00.540 capitalism, that humanity is all about, exploiting the weak in 102 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:02.279 order to make profit. 103 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:04.560 And that's not how Hooverville works. 104 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.579 So would it have not been nice for a Dalek sect to have stepped in 105 00:06:08.579 --> 00:06:11.579 and saved Solomon because of the speech that he'd given? 106 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:12.480 Yeah. 107 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.600 I actually think that scene where, and David Tenner does it twice 108 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.019 in this episode where he stands up, spreads his arms and 109 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:21.420 encourages the Daleks to kill him. 110 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:25.680 And, you know, the 2nd one I was kind of slightly disappointed 111 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:26.459 that they didn't. 112 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:30.060 I mean, but that 1st scene, why is he even doing that? 113 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.120 He doesn't seem to be drawing them out. 114 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:34.079 In the 2nd one. 115 00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:38.220 He's confident that because, and we'll talk more about the science 116 00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:43.319 of this perhaps later, that because the human daleks. 117 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:47.100 No, the Dalek humans have been infected by Timelord DNA. 118 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:50.339 He's confident that they won't kill him So when he stands on top 119 00:06:50.339 --> 00:06:54.839 of the chairs and says, kill me, he's just giving them the 120 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.540 opportunity to do what he already knows they're going to do. 121 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.600 He also has 2 Daleks facing him who might not have the same 122 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:01.139 points. 123 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:01.980 I know. 124 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:04.019 Why don't they just shoot him? 125 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:05.459 You know, it is that. 126 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:07.680 It is that thing. 127 00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:09.300 And it is a little bit silly. 128 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:12.779 I don't know why he wants to kill himself in that in that 1st 129 00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:14.040 speech in Hooverville. 130 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:16.560 It's to give the doctor big moments, and the doctor is only ever 131 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:18.360 as good as the Rice of Ricing them. 132 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:21.420 And so, you know, if Russell or Stephen is giving the doctor a big 133 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:22.139 speech like that. 134 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:23.759 They give him something interesting to say. 135 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.279 Whereas I don't think, and again, I'm not getting at Helen Rainer 136 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:28.560 here because, you know, it's her 1st outing on the show. 137 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:32.279 It's just to give the doctor something to grandstand on, but it's 138 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:32.939 not particularly well done. 139 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.879 And so all you get is tenant grandstanding, which is something 140 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:38.160 that we are a little bit sick of, perhaps, by this point. 141 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:38.879 Exactly. 142 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:42.779 Well, that's all we have time. 143 00:07:47.339 --> 00:07:52.139 Yes, I think maybe the criticisms of this story all fall onto this 144 00:07:52.139 --> 00:07:55.860 2nd episode because we had so much hope and joy and wit in the 1st 145 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:58.740 one whereas this one is about, ooh, there's a lot of wool. 146 00:07:58.800 --> 00:07:59.759 What shall we knit? 147 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.519 And there's no begonia pope at hand, is there? 148 00:08:02.579 --> 00:08:03.720 So what do we make? 149 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.779 It's trying to make logic out of something that should be silly 150 00:08:06.779 --> 00:08:07.800 and fun in camp. 151 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.740 I think the problem is trying to search for a plot. 152 00:08:10.860 --> 00:08:11.879 Don't need one. 153 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:12.660 It's Doctor Who. 154 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:13.560 No. 155 00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:17.639 I mean, I think that the idea that the Daleks get infected with 156 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:22.379 humanity and that doesn't work and then seeing the Daleks roundly 157 00:08:22.379 --> 00:08:23.100 reject that. 158 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.319 I think that that's something interesting. 159 00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:30.660 And for a second, I think, because it's so early on, we actually 160 00:08:30.660 --> 00:08:33.779 don't know that Dalek sex is going to fail, or do we? 161 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:34.259 We do. 162 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.919 Um, I think we know from the fact that the other dialects are 163 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.440 going to turn on him that he's going to fail because he succeeds 164 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:41.279 the other dialects will fail. 165 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:42.539 Yeah, yeah. 166 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:45.600 And it does mean that we won't have Daleks to play with anymore 167 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.539 but I guess we don't know at this point that the Daleks are just 168 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:51.299 going to be sort of regular monsters who turn up every so often. 169 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:55.860 But also the script muddies the idea because it is about the human 170 00:08:55.860 --> 00:08:59.100 factor and the dialect factor, but then it sort of introduced the 171 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:01.860 weird McGuffin where the doctor gets electrocuted by the lightning 172 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:05.639 bolt and somehow his DNA gets passed by a lightning bolt into the 173 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.480 human dalek DNA and that's why they rebel, right? 174 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:12.000 That's good for their humans. lightning bolt, if it's coming from 175 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:12.240 the sun. 176 00:09:12.299 --> 00:09:16.320 Oh, but none of that matters. absolutely none of that matters. 177 00:09:16.379 --> 00:09:19.139 It's more the fact that they introduced the doctor's DNA as being 178 00:09:19.139 --> 00:09:21.240 part of it, whereas they should have just played with the concepts 179 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.000 that they had, which is human factor and dalek factor. 180 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:24.720 Yeah. 181 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:26.700 You say that muddies the waters a bit. 182 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.500 It would have been cleaner to have some kind of sort of parallel 183 00:09:31.500 --> 00:09:34.320 between what's happening to Dalek Sec and what happens to the 184 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.159 human Daleks. 185 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:39.899 Or make it the triumph of the human spirit, evil of the Daleks. 186 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:40.860 Yeah, 3 dogs. 187 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.440 Yeah, I would prefer to have seen the triumph of the Dalek 188 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:43.980 spirit. 189 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:50.039 But all of that magic, and it is absolutely openly magic, where 190 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.740 it's about humans and daleks and time lords having a particular 191 00:09:52.740 --> 00:09:58.620 essence, which is conveyed through various means, you know, various 192 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.080 McGuffins, like gamma radiation or whatever. 193 00:10:01.139 --> 00:10:04.440 That's not what DNA is and we all know that. 194 00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:08.940 And that, in a sense, doesn't matter because it is just the human 195 00:10:08.940 --> 00:10:12.840 factor and the dalek factor, they're kind of alchemical essences 196 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.360 that those races possess. 197 00:10:15.419 --> 00:10:19.559 And that's how Whittaker did it in evil of the Daleks. 198 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:22.259 And so in evolution of the Daleks. 199 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:23.279 We get the same thing. 200 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:27.000 And it absolutely doesn't worry me at all, that DNA doesn't work 201 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:27.299 like that. 202 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:28.200 I just don't care. 203 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:29.519 That's just a little bit silly. 204 00:10:29.580 --> 00:10:31.679 It's more the fact of, you know, let's do something with that 205 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:31.980 idea. 206 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:35.100 Let's do something with the fact that SEC is becoming more human 207 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:39.600 and the human dialects are obviously have dialect DNA in them. 208 00:10:39.659 --> 00:10:41.340 So you know, let's see that work. 209 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.659 Let's see the 2 chafing against each other. 210 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:56.340 This really is not a two parter, it's a two thirds plus a third 211 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:57.120 and that's being generous. 212 00:10:57.179 --> 00:11:01.259 Yeah, it does seem to run out of steam, like 15 minutes early. 213 00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:02.580 Much like this podcast. 214 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:07.019 The point is, you're coming back to everything you were all saying 215 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:09.480 is that it's how likeable are these characters? 216 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:12.960 For me, Miranda Raisin, if there were a pyramid structure, is the 217 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:17.220 most likeable, and Lazlo being reflected in her glory, is also 218 00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:17.639 there. 219 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:21.059 Mr. Diagalev, whatever. 220 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.220 Oh, where does he get that name from? 221 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:25.320 I don't know. 222 00:11:25.379 --> 00:11:28.799 He's either Diagoras, the poet, or Diagoras, the sportsman. 223 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:30.600 No, so he's a philosopher. 224 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.059 Rhodes, and one of them came from Milos. 225 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:33.480 Elos? 226 00:11:33.539 --> 00:11:33.899 Yeah. 227 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:38.100 Diagras is an Olympic winner or a wrestler or something like 228 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:38.340 that. 229 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:40.440 Kinder writes an ode about him. 230 00:11:40.500 --> 00:11:44.700 Whereas Milos is a Dalek penal colony and a terrination story in 231 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:45.600 19 blah. 232 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:46.799 That's right. 233 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.799 So the other Diagoras gets thrown out of Athens for being an 234 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:53.460 atheist and lives in Corinth, I think, in exile. 235 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.399 But it's hard to know what the point of... 236 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:58.620 Well, actually, I can see a little bit of both. 237 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:02.759 I mean, if they're also making the point that Mr. Diagros is now 238 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.899 Dalek Sec and Dalek Sec is now an atheist, so that Sec does not 239 00:12:06.899 --> 00:12:10.440 believe anymore in the religion of the Dalek, which the emperor 240 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.559 was imposing, then I can kind of see a little bit of that. 241 00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.360 That's a bit beautiful Yeah. 242 00:12:15.419 --> 00:12:18.059 I mean, it's not really a point which is made, but it's a point 243 00:12:18.059 --> 00:12:20.100 which is there. what we're here for. 244 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:25.080 If he's talking about Digress, the sportsman, I think he was a 245 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:29.700 boxer and then like achieved great things at the Olympic Games, but 246 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:34.620 then saw his children achieve more and become more successful and 247 00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:38.100 apparently died the happiest man that you can die because you've 248 00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:40.080 achieved great things and then your children have achieved great 249 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:40.440 things. 250 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:43.740 Then there's also something in that in that Dalek Sec wanted to 251 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:48.059 see the children of the Daleks go on and achieve more and could 252 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:48.659 then die happy. 253 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.960 But again, it's a point, which is sort of there, but not made. 254 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:57.480 It does start to get sort of one McGuffin too many, I think. 255 00:12:57.539 --> 00:13:03.299 And that scene, I mean, I do kind of like there's, there's 256 00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:06.059 references to Frankenstein aren't there. 257 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.940 I mean, there are these empty shells that are going to be 258 00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:11.159 reanimated by electrical power. 259 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:13.440 I think they're taking their piss out of Paul McGann. 260 00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:22.019 I mean, yes, Frankenstein and also Island of Lost Souls, which is 261 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:26.279 like a 30s adaptation of the island of Dr. Moreau. 262 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:26.940 Right, okay. 263 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:29.820 And also Phantom of the Opera. 264 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:30.840 Oh, okay. 265 00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:32.399 As always, as usual. 266 00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:33.240 As always. 267 00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:38.279 But then I also feel that the design may have fumbled here a 268 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.259 little bit because you've got all that beautiful stuff with the 269 00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:43.559 Empire State Building in the dialects being Deco, and it all seems 270 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:43.980 to fit. 271 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.799 But then you go down into the Daleks laboratory, and I think 272 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:51.179 that's meant to be a sort of universal horror movie Frankenstein 273 00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:52.980 ish style, and it's not really. 274 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:55.980 It's a bit of the millennium stadium or wherever with some things 275 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:56.820 attached to it. 276 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.720 They should have gone the full Morbius on it and added in some 277 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.840 deco and it would have looked wonderful and made the point for 278 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:04.139 them. 279 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:05.159 Yeah. 280 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:06.960 I think it was a disused power station. 281 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:07.799 Okay. 282 00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:11.639 So yeah, it feels like they've kind of fumbled that in the design 283 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:13.200 and haven't made the point. 284 00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:16.379 There was never a disused power station that Ed Thomas didn't 285 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:18.059 like. 286 00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:21.360 Or a backstreet in Cardiff. 287 00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:23.820 Let's not go there. 288 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.440 But yeah, I mean, that would have made the point better, I think 289 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.480 and it would have added some visual interest to the story because 290 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.519 it loses visual interest in the 2nd half. 291 00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:36.240 It all starts to be set in that kind of underground silo, which is 292 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:37.320 just not that interesting to look at. 293 00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:38.580 It's all just a bit earnest. 294 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:42.120 It's all just a bit season 11. 2nd episode. 295 00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.820 Yeah, maybe, maybe. 296 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.299 I do have a massive soft spot for the scene which we alluded to 297 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:51.240 last week, but didn't really discuss, which is the scene between 298 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:56.279 Tallula and Martha upstairs when she's going through the various 299 00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:00.539 versions of the architect's plans to work out what's been done to 300 00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:01.620 the big antenna on top. 301 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.600 Was that when Martha's about to make brunch? 302 00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:08.100 Oh, dead there. 303 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:10.440 That is kind of terrible, but we will get there. 304 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:16.019 But there is a really nice scene and we have objected to Martha 305 00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:17.820 and the doctor's relationship. 306 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:22.919 But having her talk about her relationship with the doctor and 307 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:28.019 then having to Lula, talk about Lazlo, who at this point has been 308 00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:30.779 abandoned sort of down in the cellar. 309 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.000 They don't know whether he's alive or dead. 310 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:34.200 And I think that's really nice. 311 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.059 And I think she does a tremendous job. 312 00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:37.379 Miranda Raisin? 313 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:38.700 She's just terrific. 314 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:39.360 Really like her. 315 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:42.899 They're both good characters, and you enjoy watching both of 316 00:15:42.899 --> 00:15:43.139 them. 317 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.080 I just wish that Martha propelled the plot a little bit more. 318 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:49.559 Yeah, so they send her upstairs to do that, don't they? 319 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:54.960 Also, I think there's a there's a missed beat there where she's a 320 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:59.759 doctrine training and she's just murdered a whole heap of people 321 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.519 and it's just like, oh, I killed them. 322 00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:05.100 I mean she does get to react to that, doesn't she? 323 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:07.860 But it's kind of against a Hippocratic goes. 324 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.100 The story helps itself to science fiction reasons not to care 325 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:12.299 about the deaths of people. 326 00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:14.399 So the pig slaves. 327 00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:18.240 You know, they were all going to die anyway for science fiction 328 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.279 reasons and they were no longer people. 329 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:21.840 Their minds had been taken away. 330 00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:25.980 So we don't have any moral obligation not to kill them. 331 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:27.840 They're not part of our moral community. 332 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:30.960 And the same with the human daleks or dalek humans. 333 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.100 They've been emptied out. 334 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:33.960 There's nothing left of what they once were. 335 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:36.240 And there's a whole heap of dialogue to establish that. 336 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:40.559 And that is, I think, so that we don't care when they're all 337 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.519 killed. when 1000s of people are just, yeah, wiped out. 338 00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:49.019 Caring about dead people is a very recent thing in Doctor Who. 339 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:49.740 Yeah. 340 00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:52.980 We didn't really used to give much of a toss, did we? 341 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:57.120 Well, the thing that I remember is how upset. 342 00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:01.080 I was about the bus exploding in Delta and the Bannerman. 343 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.019 Because all those lovely, wonderful, silly people all get killed. 344 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.240 And it does have a plot purpose. 345 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:07.859 One of my favourite moments in the story. 346 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.380 I love that story. 347 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.339 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 348 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:12.599 So why do you say that, though? 349 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.400 Because it's such a jolt. 350 00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.460 Such a lovely, jolly story, and Mel was there going, goodbye 351 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:17.940 goodbye. 352 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.859 And then they kill them all and you think, oh, God. 353 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.259 And because the Bannermen are sort of rather silly. 354 00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:23.819 And so that makes them a proper threat. 355 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:27.119 And I think they are reluctant. 356 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:29.400 It's what Stephen Moffatt says about the master. 357 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:32.279 He wants the master to kill people from time to time just to 358 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.019 remind us that the master is a bad person, that they're a 359 00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:37.500 villain. 360 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:43.200 And here the Daleks have to kind of kill people, and it's the only 361 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.519 real chance that they get. 362 00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:48.900 But like, I think Martha killing all the pig slaves is not a good 363 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:49.259 choice. 364 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:54.119 Also, I think all of the human daleks dying at the end is not a 365 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:54.539 good choice. 366 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.839 It's sort of the Seywardian way out of like where we'll just kill 367 00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:58.200 them off. 368 00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:00.839 But it would have been much more interesting to have, again, you 369 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:04.920 know, it's my problem with this story is that it's a mile wide and 370 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:05.640 an inch deep. 371 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.700 There's nothing that's really kind of investigated or interrogated 372 00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:09.240 in the story. 373 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:12.660 I want to know what's then going to happen to these people who 374 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.059 have some of the dialect factor in them, but are still human. 375 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.940 Let's see them go off into Hooverville with Laszlo. 376 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.559 Let's see an aftermath for them. 377 00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:22.680 I think that that is exactly right. 378 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.619 And it reminded me of the way that New Earth was originally going 379 00:18:25.619 --> 00:18:30.119 to end with all of those freed people being killed just to kind of 380 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.339 get them out of the way so we didn't have to deal with them in the 381 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:32.759 plot. 382 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.599 And it is very much like we don't want to talk about what happens 383 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.640 to them, so we'll just have them all killed. 384 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:41.519 And it does make the Daleks more evil, but I do think it's a 385 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:42.119 missed opportunity. 386 00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:45.299 You could have killed some of them to have made a point, but I 387 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:47.819 mean, just off the top of my head, and I know it's fool's errand 388 00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:49.980 sort of saying, well, you know, maybe this story could have done 389 00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.380 this, so my version's better than the original version. 390 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:54.839 But just to take one example. 391 00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:58.619 How about Dalek Sec has been killed, then Dalek Khan, the only 392 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:02.940 remaining Dalek, realises that to keep the race going. 393 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.339 He's going to have to take some of these human daleks under his 394 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.880 wing and turn them into proper daleks, teach them to be daleks, and 395 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.259 they all time jump off together. 396 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.079 I mean, that's just one idea of, you know, let's do something 397 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:14.400 interesting with this concept. 398 00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:16.559 Let's lay the groundwork for something in the future. 399 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:18.960 Because it is thrown away in one scene. 400 00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:22.980 I would have loved John Wyndham alternate universe, dialect 401 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:23.640 child. 402 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.460 I mean, we've actually seen all of that before as well, haven't 403 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:26.700 we? 404 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.700 It's really just called totally Doctor Who, isn't it? 405 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:31.559 The audience for that. 406 00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:35.640 But it's what Moffatt does, the way that Moffatt changes our earth 407 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.279 so that it's full of zygons. 408 00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:42.180 You know, and that's absolutely audacious and super interesting. 409 00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:45.000 And it would have been more interesting if they'd referred to it 410 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.519 occasionally more often, and they do refer to it again, though 411 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:48.059 don't they? 412 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:49.920 beyond the Zygon. 413 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:51.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 414 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.319 But that idea that there are zygons among us and it would be 415 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.339 interesting because he's already equated human beings with 416 00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:00.059 daleks. 417 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.420 When human beings are warmongers and acquisitive and all of those 418 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:04.019 things. 419 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.740 They're characteristics that Sek initially admires. 420 00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:12.299 So to have Daleks among us might have been a little bit more 421 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:13.500 interesting, I think. 422 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:18.299 Or to have human dialects go off with Dalek Khan and be the new 423 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.019 Dalek race. 424 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:19.859 What does this lead to? 425 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:21.480 I mean, I know that's not the way it pans out. 426 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:24.900 But you know, the point is that any number of ideas are more 427 00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:26.160 interesting than just having them all killed. 428 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:27.180 Yeah, yeah. 429 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:31.140 As for the pig slaves, you know, we're supposed to not care about 430 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:31.440 them. 431 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:32.460 Bit hammy. 432 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.019 But, oh, God, sorry. 433 00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:35.640 There is a wonderful scene. 434 00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:37.079 Gives me the trance. 435 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.339 You know, when they're going up in the lift. and one of them is 436 00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:45.599 looking at the, above the lift and they're kind of just sort of 437 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.539 waiting there for the lift to open, all standing face. 438 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:50.640 You know, they're exactly like us. music. 439 00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.059 It would have been awesome. 440 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:58.140 But it is a genuinely funny scene and it's over quite quickly. 441 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:03.539 And, you know, again, making them just things that die anyway is 442 00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:05.339 like it's cheating a bit. 443 00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:06.480 It is. 444 00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:09.299 And I mean, can I just say, what are the pig slaves? 445 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.259 Who, what, and why? 446 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:11.339 Why are they pigs? 447 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:12.240 Why are they slaves? 448 00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.279 Why do the Daleks do these things? 449 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:17.339 And then like, oh, they only last for a couple of weeks, then why 450 00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:17.940 bother? 451 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.740 Why not just keep the most? 452 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.960 Because equity the equity rights to Ogron. 453 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.579 They're just so difficult to work with. 454 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.279 They should have been robo pigs. 455 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:30.539 Well, you know, like, I think it kind of works in that Russell 456 00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:35.579 likes aliens that are people with animal heads. they do look quite 457 00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:35.819 good. 458 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:39.240 I think they look good and I guess the idea is that the Daleks are 459 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.579 experimenting with hybrids, aren't they? 460 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.579 They're planning to hybridise humans and daleks and so they 461 00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:48.480 practice with humans and another earth animal, which is all they 462 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:49.200 have access to. 463 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:53.640 Are we getting a bit of All's Animal Farm and maybe Golding's Lord 464 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:54.720 of the Flies as well? 465 00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:57.180 Or Dr. Moreau, perhaps. 466 00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:58.319 Oh, yes, Dr. Moreau, yeah. 467 00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:59.519 The best worst film of all time. 468 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:01.619 One shot out here. 469 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.980 It's slightly undone by the fact that they've already had space 470 00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:08.700 picky in aliens of London, who is an altogether better 471 00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:10.200 anthropomorphic pig. 472 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:14.099 Yeah, although these, I mean, these do look sort of scary. 473 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.900 I think they, I think they work. 474 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.480 And I want Daleks to have humanoid slaves. 475 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:20.220 You know, there's only 4 of them. 476 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.160 And all they do is kind of like snarl in the background, although 477 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.160 there is one moment where one of the Daleks gives pig slave an 478 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.279 order and it winks back to it. is amazing. 479 00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:39.420 What do we think of the climax with sort of Talek Sec on stage in 480 00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:41.460 chains in front of the Dallas? 481 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:43.079 I mean, if it was if it was a show. 482 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.880 I'd certainly pay to go and see. 483 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.400 It's very comic book. 484 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:48.900 It's only become Dalek sex. 485 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.500 That's the cash register. 486 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.380 It does actually sound when he 1st says his name after he's come 487 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:57.240 out of the cloacre of doom. 488 00:22:57.299 --> 00:23:01.019 He does sound like he actually says, I am Dalek sex. 489 00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:05.940 Because, like you said earlier, Nathan, he can't breathe through 490 00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:06.420 his nose. 491 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.900 No. 492 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:13.980 I think that that scene is too talky and that it goes on too 493 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:14.160 long. 494 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.319 And doesn't have enough drama to it. 495 00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:19.680 No, it's not saying, let, you know, come on, come at me. 496 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.740 And we already know that they're not going to do that. 497 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.039 So it's already, there's no sort of particular, you know. 498 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.880 It's got the whole cliche of sex throwing himself in front of the 499 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:35.579 Dalek blast and popularised by Jacqueline Hill in Megloss, of 500 00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:35.759 course. 501 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.319 It looks great. 502 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:43.619 I mean, I do like because there's a lot of explosions in that big 503 00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:46.980 assault on Hooverville, which does seem to be slightly pointless 504 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:50.759 but it at least gives us some much needed explosions. 505 00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:54.960 But they're not going to spend the money on the special effect of 506 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.480 people being exterminated in that scene. 507 00:23:57.539 --> 00:23:58.440 So we never see that. 508 00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:01.319 We see lots of people kind of, you know, leaping away from 509 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:04.259 explosions and stuff and sort of landing on their faces or 510 00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:04.619 whatever. 511 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.039 So we do get to see Dalek Sec being exterminated. 512 00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:10.680 We get to see his skull with the one eye in the middle of the 513 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:11.640 forehead and stuff. 514 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:12.720 And I think that's pretty fun. 515 00:24:12.779 --> 00:24:17.759 But it is sort of undramatic and I was starting to tire of it a 516 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:18.539 little bit by then. 517 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:19.440 I think. 518 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:24.359 I think that's why we're getting a negative sense then from the 519 00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:26.460 collective for this story. 520 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.819 But I certainly don't believe the overall story deserves that. 521 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.339 And a denouement is simply that. 522 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:33.839 It's meant to be a lessening done. 523 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:37.079 And maybe the message is actually that none of us are buying that 524 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.440 humans are really all that wonderful in the 1st place. 525 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:41.339 Really? 526 00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:45.660 Dalek factor in the human factor pretty much interchangeable and 527 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:47.460 this probably wouldn't work out this way. 528 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.519 Need to induce a bit of DNA from the time lords just to make 529 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:50.940 things interesting. 530 00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:53.039 It's very cynical. 531 00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:55.740 That would be actually a little bit more interesting. 532 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.759 Again, we're advancing our own versions that we would have been 533 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.759 more interested in, but it does take a sort of fairly 534 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:06.420 uncomplicated look at what the human factor is and what the Dalek 535 00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:07.019 factor is. 536 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.140 And the doctor kind of weighs in and says, no, that's not what 537 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:10.859 humans are like. 538 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.380 It is about music and compassion and all sorts of things like 539 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:13.559 that. 540 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.759 A well prepared meal. 541 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:15.960 Yes, exactly. 542 00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:19.380 I do wonder as well if some of the disappointment about the 543 00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:19.740 episode. 544 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:22.980 I think some of mine is, is the fact that we're being asked to 545 00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:27.000 invest in the story of the dialects and, you know, where they've 546 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.400 come from, where they're going, what changes they're going 547 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:29.700 through. 548 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:34.200 And so they use Dalek Sec as a cliffhanger to the 1st episode. 549 00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:37.079 You're meant to find, oh, wow, look, there's now a human dalek 550 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.900 which isn't actually that interesting or dramatic. 551 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.440 They then put Dalek sex big head on the cover of the radio times 552 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:44.400 for the next week. 553 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.559 Again, like you're supposed to be interested in that. 554 00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:51.839 And it reminds me of the 80s where they would say, okay, we're 555 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.299 going to bring back Omega because it's the 20th season. 556 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:57.059 Well, you think, well, does that actually mean a thing to the 557 00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:57.420 audience? 558 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:01.079 They're told that he was someone from the 10th season, the 10th 559 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:01.680 anniversary. 560 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.259 You think, okay, great, but that's the extent of it. 561 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:08.339 So is what we're seeing here, we're being told to be interested in 562 00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:10.859 what the Daleks are and what they become or actually not. 563 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.019 We're only interested in the fact that the Daleks are monsters and 564 00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:13.859 what's their latest plan. 565 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:18.900 I think that what we are interested in though, is the world that's 566 00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:20.579 created in episode one. 567 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:25.200 And I am not a big fan of people saying this just needed to be a 568 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:29.940 two-parter because I think that that's almost certainly a recipe 569 00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:33.000 for just 42 additional minutes of something that's rather 570 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.900 disappointing. 571 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.099 Episode 2 of 42. 572 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:36.119 Yeah, yeah. 573 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.039 Episode 2 of victory of the Daleks. 574 00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:41.400 Like, we've talked about this before, Nathan needs to be a 0 575 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:42.119 partner. 576 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:46.799 But what you do get from Long Doctor Who stories is the chance to 577 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.980 hang out with characters in a world that you like. 578 00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.500 And I think that this story successfully does that. 579 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.240 I care about Hooverville. 580 00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:55.799 I care about Frank. 581 00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.799 And actually we made to care a little bit more about Frank in this 582 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.400 episode because we see him grieving the loss of Solomon. 583 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.180 And I think that that's a really nice touch and it is something 584 00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:07.319 that I think matters. 585 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.140 I care about Tallula and Laslow. 586 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:16.740 I think that that's lovely and her kind of bravery and all of that 587 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.380 like I think is really, really something. 588 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:24.180 And even though Laslow is dying for a sort of science fiction 589 00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:24.660 reason. 590 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:30.059 I actually don't mind that either because I think the tidy thing 591 00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:33.059 to do would be to just have him die. 592 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.559 You know, that he dies and doesn't live on and we don't end up 593 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.980 with a world in which there's a pig guy living in New York in 594 00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:41.880 1930. 595 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.000 And, you know, that's the same instinct. 596 00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:48.900 I think that makes people want Ursula to die in love and 597 00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:49.440 monsters. 598 00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:55.380 And what we get instead is that the doctor and the world of Doctor 599 00:27:55.380 --> 00:28:02.220 Who, and even just, you know, trauma changes people in weird ways 600 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:07.980 and the consequences of that are something that has to be lived 601 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:08.339 with. 602 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:10.140 And I think that's a really interesting thing. 603 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:14.460 I think the choice of having the doctor save Laslo, which I think 604 00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:18.720 is a great scene and then having Laslo live on in Hooverville, I 605 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.619 think, is terrific. 606 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.759 But also having Tallula very definitely staying with him and in 607 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.799 love with him because she's choosing that as well. 608 00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:28.619 She's choosing to live through whatever he's going to live through 609 00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:28.980 with him. 610 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.019 Yeah, I think that's really lovely. 611 00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:31.799 It is nice. 612 00:28:31.859 --> 00:28:36.000 You know, she refuses initially, doesn't she, to recognise him. 613 00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:39.119 Like it takes a while before she can recognise that that's 614 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:39.779 last... 615 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.240 Yeah, I think that's actually a choice on the character's behalf 616 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.240 where, you know, anyone can see that it's actually Laszlo, but 617 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:49.200 he's being changed, but she's refusing to recognise that it's him 618 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:49.680 for a while. 619 00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:53.819 But she never, you know, she's still physically affectionate with 620 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:54.059 him. 621 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:55.140 She calls him sweetheart. 622 00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:58.259 She touches his face and his tail and his tail. 623 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.019 And I look forward to Sunday brunch. 624 00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:05.160 I wonder how much pig he is. 625 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:10.440 Oh, yeah. 626 00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:12.000 I think that's I think that's fun. 627 00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:14.400 And I do love the fact that they have some accommodation in 628 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.880 Hooverville, you know, that people will stare at him, but he's 629 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.779 accepted. 630 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.000 And that's what Hooverville is, isn't it? 631 00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:21.839 That's the human factor. 632 00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:24.779 I also love about Hooverville, the fact they can't afford bread 633 00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:26.160 but they've got a nice stash of guns. 634 00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.539 It's America. 635 00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:29.579 Actually, that is true. 636 00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:32.339 It does set up a wonderful world. 637 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.859 I like the world of Daleks in Manhattan. 638 00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.160 And for the same reason I was saying last week that I really enjoy 639 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.880 all the plate shots of 1930s New York skylines and everything 640 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:43.619 which look amazing and really set the tone. 641 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.920 I want this world to be interesting, and it turns out to be a 642 00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.920 little bit less interesting than I wanted it to be, and that's the 643 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:50.880 root of the disappointment. 644 00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:52.380 It's not massive disappointment. 645 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.700 It's disappointing anyway. 646 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:06.420 You know how last week we talked about the Dalek voices and how 647 00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:10.380 Nick Briggs does a Peter Hawkins Dalek voice. 648 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.220 There's actually a point in the episode where when Dalek Khan 649 00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:17.279 takes control of the cult of Skaro. 650 00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:19.920 He changes the pitch of the voice. 651 00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:24.180 And the in-world reason for that is that, you know, he's in 652 00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:24.359 charge. 653 00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:29.220 He's now in charge, so he's changed his voice because Dalek's 654 00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:33.779 respect, a more sort of high pitched screechy voice. 655 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.400 But the real reason was because he'd given Dalek Khan this deep 656 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:45.299 raspy tone and it was hell on his throat. throat. 657 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:50.400 So he changed it there so he could actually get through the 658 00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:51.480 recording without dying. 659 00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:56.460 So there's that big final scene, isn't there, with Dalek Khan and 660 00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:58.200 the doctor just sort of confronting one another. 661 00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:00.000 Facing off in the laboratory. 662 00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:03.720 People are playing against type here, and that's what Russell was 663 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.779 going for, and that was his instruction to Helen Rayno, but I 664 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:10.680 think we're also seeing, it doesn't necessarily work out for the 665 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.099 narrative or for the audience or indeed for the play itself. 666 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:19.980 If you're really going to posit a vault face in your main 667 00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:20.700 villains. 668 00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:25.200 We kind of need a bit more happening behind us than building a 669 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.900 gorgeous skyscraper and you know how much I care about gorgeous 670 00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:30.240 skyscrapers and Art Deco motifs. 671 00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.220 And are you being served references? 672 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:32.759 Thank you, James. 673 00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:34.920 That's in there as well. 674 00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.720 And there's nods to Marilyn Monroe. 675 00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:39.059 I mean, it's everything's out of time and out of place, but it's 676 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:45.900 the fundament of it being that we survived the global recession in 677 00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:47.880 the 20s and we'll do it again. 678 00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:49.859 This is 2007 when this went out. 679 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:53.640 So we really did not think that the GFC would be survivable and 680 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.859 perhaps we're not actually over that yet. 681 00:31:55.859 --> 00:32:00.180 Maybe that's where October 31st, or if you've got your bingo card 682 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:01.859 Brexit, is coming from. 683 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:08.220 This is perhaps uncomfortable to perform and to stage as well as 684 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:12.240 to being in with as a viewers because it's a little bit too close 685 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.960 to the point that we can't really write about how this would work 686 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:16.140 out. 687 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:21.180 If you are going to tell this as a truthful, not even a metaphor 688 00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:24.420 as a truthful piece of what is our dark and what is the light 689 00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:25.440 aspects of humanity. 690 00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:28.200 There's just got to be a massacre at the end of it because that's 691 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.000 the best Doctor Who story of all time. 692 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.579 All right, so it's time for pix of the week, and James, we're 693 00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:45.180 gonna throw to you. 694 00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:52.200 Well, I picked the 1931 adaptation of Frankenstein, the classic 695 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.779 Boris Karlov black and white film. 696 00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:56.519 James Whale. 697 00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:02.940 Mainly because it was one of the main inspirations for the visuals 698 00:33:02.940 --> 00:33:06.779 and a lot of the storytelling in this 2 part. 699 00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:11.160 So when the Dalek army sort of heads off into Manhattan. 700 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:13.619 James Strong lifts. 701 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.460 He deliberately references the torch. 702 00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:20.880 It's basically it's the villagers carrying pitchforks and torches 703 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.240 kind of... those crossfades and things like that. 704 00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:28.859 Yeah, like that's very deliberately lifted from towards the end of 705 00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:29.819 Frankenstein. 706 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.220 The beds. 707 00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.019 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 708 00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:38.940 Human dalek shells are waiting, are waiting on are very 709 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:40.440 deliberate. 710 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:41.819 The ones that are kind of lowered from the ceiling. 711 00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:46.619 Yeah, in the same way that the bed that Frankenstein's monster is 712 00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:49.500 on that is all incredibly... 713 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.279 Yeah, and even, even, you know, waking them up with electricity 714 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.319 like it is a deliberate reference. 715 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.900 I mean, that's the that's the most obvious of the references there 716 00:33:57.900 --> 00:34:01.440 is that bringing something to life with a bolt of lightning. 717 00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:07.140 And also the Lemley, the Carl Lemley period at Universal, where it 718 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:10.320 was such a beautiful deco experience and the sets and the timing 719 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.699 of it, it's right on the mark. 720 00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:14.699 I rewatched it last night for the 1st time in years. 721 00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:19.559 It's beautiful in a way that I think Daleks, in Manhattan 722 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:21.539 evolution of the Daleks wants to be. 723 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:27.960 And visually, I think, is in places, but I really enjoy the film. 724 00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:31.440 And if you don't want to stop there, go on to brighter 725 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.099 Frankenstein. 726 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.199 In many ways, a better film. 727 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:35.400 Yeah, and it's gorgeous. 728 00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:37.860 It is just, it is such a wonderful film. 729 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:39.239 Oh, so Lancaster. 730 00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:40.079 Wow. 731 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:44.579 And if you haven't had enough there, then I would suggest Paul 732 00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:47.280 Mars's, Brenda and nephew mysteries. 733 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:48.239 Oh, they're fun. 734 00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:50.579 They start with Nefer the bride. 735 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.659 So Paul Mars wrote for Doctor Who Fic for a long time and also. 736 00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:59.760 Well, the Tom Baker audios before he was at Big Finish, but they 737 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.119 are set in Whitby from Dracula. 738 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:05.519 I've got Susan Jamison. 739 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:13.500 And they are basically the bride of Frankenstein, after she has 740 00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:19.500 retired to Whitby, as an elderly lady, and she's running a B&B 741 00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:21.059 That sounds great. 742 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:25.619 Paul Mars is, of course, the inventor of Iris Wild Time. 743 00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:26.039 Is that right? 744 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:26.820 Yeah. 745 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.699 The BBC have done radio adaptions of them. 746 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:30.239 Right. 747 00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:30.659 So, yeah. 748 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.679 Peter. 749 00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:36.300 My pick of the week is someone which I picked off my bookshelf 750 00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:39.179 about 2 months ago and had to read because I recently returned to 751 00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:42.239 the country to live and so I've been going back to my parents 752 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.599 house and just going through my old library and occasionally, you 753 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.280 know, plucking something out to have a read of. 754 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.880 And this was Terence Dick's blood harvest, his new adventure from 755 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:55.199 19, I don't know, 1994, 95, somewhere around there. 756 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:59.219 So if you want to read something which is roughly contemporary 757 00:35:59.219 --> 00:36:03.719 with Daleks in Manhattan, and set in a similar city, Chicago, and 758 00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:08.159 a writer having enormous fun with their subjects matter, then go 759 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:08.760 and give it a read. 760 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.940 I think his books were better than his TV. 761 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.739 Tories on the whole. 762 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.559 I loved his missing adventures or new adventures. 763 00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:17.639 Oh, me too. 764 00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.579 Although I don't agree with you about his TV story. 765 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:21.539 Exodus is great. 766 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.159 Oh, Exetus is brilliant. 767 00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:25.559 But if you look at the TV stories that Terrence actually wrote. 768 00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:29.159 He's just a master, the war games, Breen of Morbius. 769 00:36:29.219 --> 00:36:30.300 Horror Fang Rock. 770 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:31.440 The 5 doctors. 771 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.539 Praying a Porpius wasn't written by Terrence Stewart. by Robin 772 00:36:36.539 --> 00:36:37.079 Bland. 773 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.440 Actually, if you look at the sensibility of that, It's all Terence 774 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:40.800 sticks. 775 00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:41.940 Like it feels like him. 776 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.739 But yes, read Blood Harvest. 777 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:44.579 You won't regret it. 778 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.539 Aside from sort of a late switch to Gallifrey, which doesn't work 779 00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:48.960 at all. 780 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:50.340 It never does. 781 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.119 It never does. 782 00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:53.159 With its beige sofas. 783 00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:54.539 Well, indeed. 784 00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:58.500 And the antithesis of beige is the soundscape of this story, and I 785 00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:02.219 think that's probably why I love these 2 episodes, because Murray 786 00:37:02.219 --> 00:37:03.900 Gold has really enjoyed himself here. 787 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:08.219 And even the little moments and the, the, almost to the point of 788 00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:12.239 Foley, just the, the sound points that he places in the score are 789 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:12.719 beautiful. 790 00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:15.420 But I would just go and listen to Gershman's Rhapsody in Blue 791 00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:19.260 because he notes it at the beginning when they're under the Statue 792 00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:21.300 of Liberty, and then the rifts keep going through it. 793 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.739 It's just a beautiful piece of music. 794 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.800 You don't have to take out a novel then or watch. 795 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:28.739 I did last night in preparation in this podcast. 796 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.059 Yeah, and it's really gorgeous. 797 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:30.420 Yeah. 798 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.480 Well, I'm tempted to pick years and years again. 799 00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:34.920 I can't remember the last time. 800 00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:35.760 I done that? 801 00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:36.659 I'm not allowed to do that. 802 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.519 Alright, absolutely allowed to do that. 803 00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:40.619 Well, you should all watch it anyway. 804 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:41.820 It is tremendous. 805 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.840 And it just reminds us that we don't deserve Russell T.D. Davies. 806 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:51.179 But failing that, someone we do deserve is Eric Sayward, and I'm 807 00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:54.900 going to recommend the novelisation of Resurrection of the 808 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:55.500 Daleks. 809 00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.619 I have started it and it is as terrible as you would imagine. 810 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:05.340 And I do want to thank friend of the podcast, Colin Neal, who 811 00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:10.440 actually sent me a copy of it signed by Eric Saywood. as Colin 812 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:10.860 Neal. 813 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:16.679 And no, I've seen a photo of Colin with Eric Saywood and a pile of 814 00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:18.059 the novelisations to hand. 815 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:21.420 So I'm assured that it really is Eric's signature, and I just hope 816 00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:23.639 that Colin didn't tell Eric Saywood. 817 00:38:23.699 --> 00:38:24.360 Exactly. 818 00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:27.239 Did Eric sign at Snog marry or a boy? 819 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.760 Oh, God. 820 00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:33.119 Because I did best, which I don't think is actually short for all 821 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:33.480 the best. 822 00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.400 It's short for I am the best. 823 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:37.559 Eric, say what. 824 00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:39.960 Why, oh, why, couldn't we have had the novelisation of 825 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.239 Resurrection of the Daleks by, oh, John Peel? 826 00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:11.400 Weldy listener, that's all we have time for this week. 827 00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:14.460 We will see you next week for what looks like a truly alarming 828 00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:18.539 product launch as we suit up to witness the Lazarus experiment. 829 00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:22.079 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 830 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:24.719 and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com. 831 00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:27.960 Flight through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on 832 00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:28.380 Twitter. 833 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:33.840 You can also find our series 11 flashcast Jody Interterterra.com 834 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:37.739 and at Jody Interterra on Twitter at our James Bond commentary 835 00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:41.639 podcast bondfinger at bondfinger.com at bondfinger on Facebook and 836 00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:43.320 at bondfingercast on Twitter. 837 00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:48.719 Until next time, may you find true love or bacon in the arms of a 838 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:49.920 man like Laslow. 839 00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:52.440 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 840 00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:53.219 Good night. 841 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.079 Good night. and get crackling. 842 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:03.059 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter 843 00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:05.039 Griffiths, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 844 00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:08.039 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane 845 00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:08.760 Orberg. 846 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.239 This episode, a long tradition of Doctor Who monsters that in some 847 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.420 way resemble human genitalia, was recorded on the 11th of August 848 00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:17.940 2019 and released on the 13th of October. 849 00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:23.699 Founder and beloved host of the podcast, Brendan Jones is really 850 00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:26.039 killing it with his YouTube channel right now. 851 00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:29.639 To see what he's been up to, search for brandy bongos on YouTube 852 00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:31.980 or follow the link in our show notes. 853 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:35.760 It doesn't really go anywhere, does it? 854 00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:38.219 This episode itself doesn't really go anywhere. 855 00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:39.539 I can talk about that. 856 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.059 So I feel like I've closed down to arguments in a row. 857 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:51.360 Yeah, see, we've gone through the 1st 5 things on my list. 858 00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.980 That's the thing. 859 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:57.059 My, my, my notes for the 1st episode are like 7 pages of hormones 860 00:40:57.059 --> 00:41:00.719 for the 2nd are... 861 00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:02.159 Because it's a story wrapup. 862 00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:03.300 Yeah, it really is. 863 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:03.599 Okay. 864 00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:05.639 As we were saying, this really is.