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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:25:24

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Hello, Delissa and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that's armed with Dalek guns and ready to fall over and die whenever that's required by the plot.

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I'm Nathan.

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James.

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I'm Peter.

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I am a human darling. for this episode.

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Hi, and a little bit camped.

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Just a little.

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Uncle Arthur.

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It's Peter Laurie and a negligee.

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Well, we've been standing here for an entire week admiring the terrifying animatronic penises adorning Dalek sex face and wondering what on earth is going to happen next.

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Let's see if Dalek Set can accomplish something not even Eric Seywood could manage, evolution of the Daleks.

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So we didn't really get much of a chance to talk about this last week, but that mask is shockingly bad.

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It's terrible.

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Is it?

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Well I kind of think so.

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I think it's Gay Hilaire.

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I think the problem with it is that the actor can't breathe through his nose.

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And so every line of dialogue sounds like it's being delivered by someone who has got their fingers up their nose.

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So he sounds like this and it's very difficult to take anything that he says seriously.

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And how would you feel if you've been shoved into a brass bolted front tense caro loader and squished about, at least it dry cleaned your suit. lovely though, didn't it?

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In fact, there's a bit of mucus on this.

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It looks like that one of those Dalek anyway.

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Dalek emoleans. product.

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I think he's also sabotaged slightly by the accent.

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Yeah, the accent doesn't help.

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And the animatronics...

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Yeah, Willies.

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Yeah, I mean, what we're skirting around is it's basically dalek bum with dalek penises attached.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, there's a lot of tradition.

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We have talked about this on the podcast before, but there is a long tradition of Doctor Who monsters that in some way resemble human genitalia, and it's an honourable tradition, which includes the verboids and erato and obviously the draconians.

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Maybe I just need to see my doctor.

34
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Everything was thrown at Captain Jack.

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That's right And so, you know, I don't think we can complain about that, but I do think he's got a really crucial role to sell here because we move from the Daleks as a metaphor for capitalism, I think, into that sort of Whitakarian idea about Daleks and humans, the Dalek factor and the human factor.

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And we saw that play out incredibly well in evil of the Daleks.

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It's perhaps the best thing about Evil of the Daleks.

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And here we've got to buy the idea that, you know, SEC has chosen to merge with humanity because humanity is sort of violent and warlike and survives at all cost and thrives and all of that.

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But he ends up adopting all of these sort of negative human emotions like empathy and compassion and stuff.

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Yeah, but he's got a big rubber thing on his head.

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But what is it he actually wants to do?

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I mean, he wants to progress the Dalek's evolution.

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Okay.

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But by adding the human factor, that's going to make him more empathetic and open to change.

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Evil and Dalek's got it.

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Why does he then need the doctor to help them?

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Why does it mean that he's no longer a Dalek?

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Yeah.

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There's that incredible speech by Hugh Korschi's character by Solomon from Hooverville, where he, I think it's an extraordinary speech, and I think he delivers it really, really well.

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And he kind of says if you have compassion kind of spare us and they kill immediately, but the way that sex stops the doctor from being killed is meant to indicate that he's got compassion.

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But it's more than that because he actually reacts to Solomon's death with shock.

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That actually he plays quite well.

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He does.

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And that's one of the bits of the episode, I think, works very well because also Dalek, whoever it is, by his side looks at him when he does that and is going, oh, oh, that's the moment when they go, we have to get rid of this bloke.

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I mean, you can see it coming.

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It is all sort of rather obvious and it's telegraphed.

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The doctor gives that speech about music and what music's for.

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And that scene ends with Dalek Sec picking up the broken radio and just looking at it.

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And so it's telegraphed, deliberately telegraphed.

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We know where this is going.

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Yeah, and even though, you know, Solomon's speech is all right.

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I don't know if it actually fulfils anything in the plot.

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I mean, yes, I see what they're trying to do, but we know he's just going to get exterminated straight away.

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So what's the point of the speech?

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I guess it is to kind of exhibit the human factor to show what humanity is like.

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And we've had humanity characterised as, you know, the face of capitalism, that humanity is all about, exploiting the weak in order to make profit.

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And that's not how Hooverville works.

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So would it have not been nice for a Dalek sect to have stepped in and saved Solomon because of the speech that he'd given?

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Yeah.

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I actually think that scene where, and David Tenner does it twice in this episode where he stands up, spreads his arms and encourages the Daleks to kill him.

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And, you know, the 2nd one I was kind of slightly disappointed that they didn't.

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I mean, but that 1st scene, why is he even doing that?

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He doesn't seem to be drawing them out.

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In the 2nd one.

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He's confident that because, and we'll talk more about the science of this perhaps later, that because the human daleks.

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No, the Dalek humans have been infected by Timelord DNA.

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He's confident that they won't kill him So when he stands on top of the chairs and says, kill me, he's just giving them the opportunity to do what he already knows they're going to do.

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He also has 2 Daleks facing him who might not have the same points.

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I know.

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Why don't they just shoot him?

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You know, it is that.

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It is that thing.

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And it is a little bit silly.

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I don't know why he wants to kill himself in that in that 1st speech in Hooverville.

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It's to give the doctor big moments, and the doctor is only ever as good as the Rice of Ricing them.

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And so, you know, if Russell or Stephen is giving the doctor a big speech like that.

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They give him something interesting to say.

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Whereas I don't think, and again, I'm not getting at Helen Rainer here because, you know, it's her 1st outing on the show.

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It's just to give the doctor something to grandstand on, but it's not particularly well done.

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And so all you get is tenant grandstanding, which is something that we are a little bit sick of, perhaps, by this point.

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Exactly.

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Well, that's all we have time.

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Yes, I think maybe the criticisms of this story all fall onto this 2nd episode because we had so much hope and joy and wit in the 1st one whereas this one is about, ooh, there's a lot of wool.

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What shall we knit?

95
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And there's no begonia pope at hand, is there?

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So what do we make?

97
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It's trying to make logic out of something that should be silly and fun in camp.

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I think the problem is trying to search for a plot.

99
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Don't need one.

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It's Doctor Who.

101
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No.

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I mean, I think that the idea that the Daleks get infected with humanity and that doesn't work and then seeing the Daleks roundly reject that.

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I think that that's something interesting.

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And for a second, I think, because it's so early on, we actually don't know that Dalek sex is going to fail, or do we?

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We do.

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Um, I think we know from the fact that the other dialects are going to turn on him that he's going to fail because he succeeds, the other dialects will fail.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it does mean that we won't have Daleks to play with anymore, but I guess we don't know at this point that the Daleks are just going to be sort of regular monsters who turn up every so often.

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But also the script muddies the idea because it is about the human factor and the dialect factor, but then it sort of introduced the weird McGuffin where the doctor gets electrocuted by the lightning bolt and somehow his DNA gets passed by a lightning bolt into the human dalek DNA and that's why they rebel, right?

110
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That's good for their humans. lightning bolt, if it's coming from the sun.

111
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Oh, but none of that matters. absolutely none of that matters.

112
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It's more the fact that they introduced the doctor's DNA as being part of it, whereas they should have just played with the concepts that they had, which is human factor and dalek factor.

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Yeah.

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You say that muddies the waters a bit.

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It would have been cleaner to have some kind of sort of parallel between what's happening to Dalek Sec and what happens to the human Daleks.

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Or make it the triumph of the human spirit, evil of the Daleks.

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Yeah, 3 dogs.

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Yeah, I would prefer to have seen the triumph of the Dalek spirit.

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But all of that magic, and it is absolutely openly magic, where it's about humans and daleks and time lords having a particular essence, which is conveyed through various means, you know, various McGuffins, like gamma radiation or whatever.

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That's not what DNA is and we all know that.

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And that, in a sense, doesn't matter because it is just the human factor and the dalek factor, they're kind of alchemical essences that those races possess.

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And that's how Whittaker did it in evil of the Daleks.

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And so in evolution of the Daleks.

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We get the same thing.

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And it absolutely doesn't worry me at all, that DNA doesn't work like that.

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I just don't care.

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That's just a little bit silly.

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It's more the fact of, you know, let's do something with that idea.

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Let's do something with the fact that SEC is becoming more human and the human dialects are obviously have dialect DNA in them.

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So you know, let's see that work.

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Let's see the 2 chafing against each other.

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This really is not a two parter, it's a two thirds plus a third, and that's being generous.

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Yeah, it does seem to run out of steam, like 15 minutes early.

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Much like this podcast.

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The point is, you're coming back to everything you were all saying is that it's how likeable are these characters?

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For me, Miranda Raisin, if there were a pyramid structure, is the most likeable, and Lazlo being reflected in her glory, is also there.

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Mr. Diagalev, whatever.

138
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Oh, where does he get that name from?

139
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I don't know.

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He's either Diagoras, the poet, or Diagoras, the sportsman.

141
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No, so he's a philosopher.

142
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Rhodes, and one of them came from Milos.

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Elos?

144
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Yeah.

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Diagras is an Olympic winner or a wrestler or something like that.

146
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Kinder writes an ode about him.

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Whereas Milos is a Dalek penal colony and a terrination story in 19 blah.

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That's right.

149
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So the other Diagoras gets thrown out of Athens for being an atheist and lives in Corinth, I think, in exile.

150
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But it's hard to know what the point of...

151
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Well, actually, I can see a little bit of both.

152
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I mean, if they're also making the point that Mr. Diagros is now Dalek Sec and Dalek Sec is now an atheist, so that Sec does not believe anymore in the religion of the Dalek, which the emperor was imposing, then I can kind of see a little bit of that.

153
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That's a bit beautiful Yeah.

154
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I mean, it's not really a point which is made, but it's a point which is there. what we're here for.

155
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If he's talking about Digress, the sportsman, I think he was a boxer and then like achieved great things at the Olympic Games, but then saw his children achieve more and become more successful and apparently died the happiest man that you can die because you've achieved great things and then your children have achieved great things.

156
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Then there's also something in that in that Dalek Sec wanted to see the children of the Daleks go on and achieve more and could then die happy.

157
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But again, it's a point, which is sort of there, but not made.

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It does start to get sort of one McGuffin too many, I think.

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And that scene, I mean, I do kind of like there's, there's references to Frankenstein aren't there.

160
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I mean, there are these empty shells that are going to be reanimated by electrical power.

161
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I think they're taking their piss out of Paul McGann.

162
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I mean, yes, Frankenstein and also Island of Lost Souls, which is like a 30s adaptation of the island of Dr. Moreau.

163
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Right, okay.

164
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And also Phantom of the Opera.

165
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Oh, okay.

166
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As always, as usual.

167
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As always.

168
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But then I also feel that the design may have fumbled here a little bit because you've got all that beautiful stuff with the Empire State Building in the dialects being Deco, and it all seems to fit.

169
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But then you go down into the Daleks laboratory, and I think that's meant to be a sort of universal horror movie Frankenstein-ish style, and it's not really.

170
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It's a bit of the millennium stadium or wherever with some things attached to it.

171
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They should have gone the full Morbius on it and added in some deco and it would have looked wonderful and made the point for them.

172
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Yeah.

173
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I think it was a disused power station.

174
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Okay.

175
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So yeah, it feels like they've kind of fumbled that in the design. and haven't made the point.

176
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There was never a disused power station that Ed Thomas didn't like.

177
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Or a backstreet in Cardiff.

178
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Let's not go there.

179
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But yeah, I mean, that would have made the point better, I think, and it would have added some visual interest to the story because it loses visual interest in the 2nd half.

180
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It all starts to be set in that kind of underground silo, which is just not that interesting to look at.

181
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It's all just a bit earnest.

182
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It's all just a bit season 11. 2nd episode.

183
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Yeah, maybe, maybe.

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I do have a massive soft spot for the scene which we alluded to last week, but didn't really discuss, which is the scene between Tallula and Martha upstairs when she's going through the various versions of the architect's plans to work out what's been done to the big antenna on top.

185
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Was that when Martha's about to make brunch?

186
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Oh, dead there.

187
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That is kind of terrible, but we will get there.

188
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But there is a really nice scene and we have objected to Martha and the doctor's relationship.

189
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But having her talk about her relationship with the doctor and then having to Lula, talk about Lazlo, who at this point has been abandoned sort of down in the cellar.

190
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They don't know whether he's alive or dead.

191
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And I think that's really nice.

192
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And I think she does a tremendous job.

193
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Miranda Raisin?

194
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She's just terrific.

195
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Really like her.

196
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They're both good characters, and you enjoy watching both of them.

197
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I just wish that Martha propelled the plot a little bit more.

198
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Yeah, so they send her upstairs to do that, don't they?

199
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Also, I think there's a there's a missed beat there where she's a doctrine training and she's just murdered a whole heap of people and it's just like, oh, I killed them.

200
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I mean she does get to react to that, doesn't she?

201
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But it's kind of against a Hippocratic goes.

202
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The story helps itself to science fiction reasons not to care about the deaths of people.

203
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So the pig slaves.

204
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You know, they were all going to die anyway for science fiction reasons and they were no longer people.

205
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Their minds had been taken away.

206
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So we don't have any moral obligation not to kill them.

207
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They're not part of our moral community.

208
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And the same with the human daleks or dalek humans.

209
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.100
They've been emptied out.

210
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:33.960
There's nothing left of what they once were.

211
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:36.240
And there's a whole heap of dialogue to establish that.

212
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:44.519
And that is, I think, so that we don't care when they're all killed. when 1000s of people are just, yeah, wiped out.

213
00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:49.019
Caring about dead people is a very recent thing in Doctor Who.

214
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:49.740
Yeah.

215
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:52.980
We didn't really used to give much of a toss, did we?

216
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:57.120
Well, the thing that I remember is how upset.

217
00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:01.080
I was about the bus exploding in Delta and the Bannerman.

218
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.019
Because all those lovely, wonderful, silly people all get killed.

219
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.240
And it does have a plot purpose.

220
00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:07.859
One of my favourite moments in the story.

221
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.380
I love that story.

222
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

223
00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:12.599
So why do you say that, though?

224
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.400
Because it's such a jolt.

225
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.940
Such a lovely, jolly story, and Mel was there going, goodbye, goodbye.

226
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.859
And then they kill them all and you think, oh, God.

227
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.259
And because the Bannermen are sort of rather silly.

228
00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:23.819
And so that makes them a proper threat.

229
00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:27.119
And I think they are reluctant.

230
00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:29.400
It's what Stephen Moffatt says about the master.

231
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:37.500
He wants the master to kill people from time to time just to remind us that the master is a bad person, that they're a villain.

232
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:44.519
And here the Daleks have to kind of kill people, and it's the only real chance that they get.

233
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:49.259
But like, I think Martha killing all the pig slaves is not a good choice.

234
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:54.539
Also, I think all of the human daleks dying at the end is not a good choice.

235
00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:58.200
It's sort of the Seywardian way out of like where we'll just kill them off.

236
00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:05.640
But it would have been much more interesting to have, again, you know, it's my problem with this story is that it's a mile wide and an inch deep.

237
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:09.240
There's nothing that's really kind of investigated or interrogated in the story.

238
00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:15.059
I want to know what's then going to happen to these people who have some of the dialect factor in them, but are still human.

239
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.940
Let's see them go off into Hooverville with Laszlo.

240
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.559
Let's see an aftermath for them.

241
00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:22.680
I think that that is exactly right.

242
00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:32.759
And it reminded me of the way that New Earth was originally going to end with all of those freed people being killed just to kind of get them out of the way so we didn't have to deal with them in the plot.

243
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:38.640
And it is very much like we don't want to talk about what happens to them, so we'll just have them all killed.

244
00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:42.119
And it does make the Daleks more evil, but I do think it's a missed opportunity.

245
00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:52.380
You could have killed some of them to have made a point, but I mean, just off the top of my head, and I know it's fool's errand sort of saying, well, you know, maybe this story could have done this, so my version's better than the original version.

246
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:54.839
But just to take one example.

247
00:18:54.900 --> 00:19:02.940
How about Dalek Sec has been killed, then Dalek Khan, the only remaining Dalek, realises that to keep the race going.

248
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:10.259
He's going to have to take some of these human daleks under his wing and turn them into proper daleks, teach them to be daleks, and they all time jump off together.

249
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.400
I mean, that's just one idea of, you know, let's do something interesting with this concept.

250
00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:16.559
Let's lay the groundwork for something in the future.

251
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:18.960
Because it is thrown away in one scene.

252
00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:23.640
I would have loved John Wyndham alternate universe, dialect child.

253
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.700
I mean, we've actually seen all of that before as well, haven't we?

254
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.700
It's really just called totally Doctor Who, isn't it?

255
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:31.559
The audience for that.

256
00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:38.279
But it's what Moffatt does, the way that Moffatt changes our earth so that it's full of zygons.

257
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:42.180
You know, and that's absolutely audacious and super interesting.

258
00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:48.059
And it would have been more interesting if they'd referred to it occasionally more often, and they do refer to it again, though, don't they?

259
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:49.920
beyond the Zygon.

260
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:51.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

261
00:19:51.720 --> 00:20:00.059
But that idea that there are zygons among us and it would be interesting because he's already equated human beings with daleks.

262
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.019
When human beings are warmongers and acquisitive and all of those things.

263
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.740
They're characteristics that Sek initially admires.

264
00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:13.500
So to have Daleks among us might have been a little bit more interesting, I think.

265
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:19.019
Or to have human dialects go off with Dalek Khan and be the new Dalek race.

266
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:19.859
What does this lead to?

267
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:21.480
I mean, I know that's not the way it pans out.

268
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:26.160
But you know, the point is that any number of ideas are more interesting than just having them all killed.

269
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:27.180
Yeah, yeah.

270
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:31.440
As for the pig slaves, you know, we're supposed to not care about them.

271
00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:32.460
Bit hammy.

272
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.019
But, oh, God, sorry.

273
00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:35.640
There is a wonderful scene.

274
00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:37.079
Gives me the trance.

275
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:48.539
You know, when they're going up in the lift. and one of them is looking at the, above the lift and they're kind of just sort of waiting there for the lift to open, all standing face.

276
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:50.640
You know, they're exactly like us. music.

277
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.059
It would have been awesome.

278
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:58.140
But it is a genuinely funny scene and it's over quite quickly.

279
00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:05.339
And, you know, again, making them just things that die anyway is like it's cheating a bit.

280
00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:06.480
It is.

281
00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:09.299
And I mean, can I just say, what are the pig slaves?

282
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.259
Who, what, and why?

283
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:11.339
Why are they pigs?

284
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:12.240
Why are they slaves?

285
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.279
Why do the Daleks do these things?

286
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:17.940
And then like, oh, they only last for a couple of weeks, then why bother?

287
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.740
Why not just keep the most?

288
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.960
Because equity the equity rights to Ogron.

289
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.579
They're just so difficult to work with.

290
00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.279
They should have been robo pigs.

291
00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:35.819
Well, you know, like, I think it kind of works in that Russell likes aliens that are people with animal heads. they do look quite good.

292
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:41.579
I think they look good and I guess the idea is that the Daleks are experimenting with hybrids, aren't they?

293
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:49.200
They're planning to hybridise humans and daleks and so they practice with humans and another earth animal, which is all they have access to.

294
00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:54.720
Are we getting a bit of All's Animal Farm and maybe Golding's Lord of the Flies as well?

295
00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:57.180
Or Dr. Moreau, perhaps.

296
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:58.319
Oh, yes, Dr. Moreau, yeah.

297
00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:59.519
The best worst film of all time.

298
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:01.619
One shot out here.

299
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:10.200
It's slightly undone by the fact that they've already had space picky in aliens of London, who is an altogether better anthropomorphic pig.

300
00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:14.099
Yeah, although these, I mean, these do look sort of scary.

301
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.900
I think they, I think they work.

302
00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.480
And I want Daleks to have humanoid slaves.

303
00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:20.220
You know, there's only 4 of them.

304
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:29.279
And all they do is kind of like snarl in the background, although there is one moment where one of the Daleks gives pig slave an order and it winks back to it. is amazing.

305
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:41.460
What do we think of the climax with sort of Talek Sec on stage in chains in front of the Dallas?

306
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:43.079
I mean, if it was if it was a show.

307
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.880
I'd certainly pay to go and see.

308
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.400
It's very comic book.

309
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:48.900
It's only become Dalek sex.

310
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.500
That's the cash register.

311
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:57.240
It does actually sound when he 1st says his name after he's come out of the cloacre of doom.

312
00:22:57.299 --> 00:23:01.019
He does sound like he actually says, I am Dalek sex.

313
00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:06.420
Because, like you said earlier, Nathan, he can't breathe through his nose.

314
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.900
No.

315
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:14.160
I think that that scene is too talky and that it goes on too long.

316
00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.319
And doesn't have enough drama to it.

317
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:19.680
No, it's not saying, let, you know, come on, come at me.

318
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.740
And we already know that they're not going to do that.

319
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.039
So it's already, there's no sort of particular, you know.

320
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:35.759
It's got the whole cliche of sex throwing himself in front of the Dalek blast and popularised by Jacqueline Hill in Megloss, of course.

321
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.319
It looks great.

322
00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:50.759
I mean, I do like because there's a lot of explosions in that big assault on Hooverville, which does seem to be slightly pointless, but it at least gives us some much needed explosions.

323
00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:57.480
But they're not going to spend the money on the special effect of people being exterminated in that scene.

324
00:23:57.539 --> 00:23:58.440
So we never see that.

325
00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:04.619
We see lots of people kind of, you know, leaping away from explosions and stuff and sort of landing on their faces or whatever.

326
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.039
So we do get to see Dalek Sec being exterminated.

327
00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:11.640
We get to see his skull with the one eye in the middle of the forehead and stuff.

328
00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:12.720
And I think that's pretty fun.

329
00:24:12.779 --> 00:24:18.539
But it is sort of undramatic and I was starting to tire of it a little bit by then.

330
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:19.440
I think.

331
00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:26.460
I think that's why we're getting a negative sense then from the collective for this story.

332
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.819
But I certainly don't believe the overall story deserves that.

333
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.339
And a denouement is simply that.

334
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:33.839
It's meant to be a lessening done.

335
00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:40.440
And maybe the message is actually that none of us are buying that humans are really all that wonderful in the 1st place.

336
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:41.339
Really?

337
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:47.460
Dalek factor in the human factor pretty much interchangeable and this probably wouldn't work out this way.

338
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.940
Need to induce a bit of DNA from the time lords just to make things interesting.

339
00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:53.039
It's very cynical.

340
00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:55.740
That would be actually a little bit more interesting.

341
00:24:55.799 --> 00:25:07.019
Again, we're advancing our own versions that we would have been more interested in, but it does take a sort of fairly uncomplicated look at what the human factor is and what the Dalek factor is.

342
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.859
And the doctor kind of weighs in and says, no, that's not what humans are like.

343
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.559
It is about music and compassion and all sorts of things like that.

344
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.759
A well prepared meal.

345
00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:15.960
Yes, exactly.

346
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:19.740
I do wonder as well if some of the disappointment about the episode.

347
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:29.700
I think some of mine is, is the fact that we're being asked to invest in the story of the dialects and, you know, where they've come from, where they're going, what changes they're going through.

348
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:34.200
And so they use Dalek Sec as a cliffhanger to the 1st episode.

349
00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:39.900
You're meant to find, oh, wow, look, there's now a human dalek, which isn't actually that interesting or dramatic.

350
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.400
They then put Dalek sex big head on the cover of the radio times for the next week.

351
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.559
Again, like you're supposed to be interested in that.

352
00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:54.299
And it reminds me of the 80s where they would say, okay, we're going to bring back Omega because it's the 20th season.

353
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:57.420
Well, you think, well, does that actually mean a thing to the audience?

354
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:01.680
They're told that he was someone from the 10th season, the 10th anniversary.

355
00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.259
You think, okay, great, but that's the extent of it.

356
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:10.859
So is what we're seeing here, we're being told to be interested in what the Daleks are and what they become or actually not.

357
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.859
We're only interested in the fact that the Daleks are monsters and what's their latest plan.

358
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:20.579
I think that what we are interested in though, is the world that's created in episode one.

359
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:33.900
And I am not a big fan of people saying this just needed to be a two-parter because I think that that's almost certainly a recipe for just 42 additional minutes of something that's rather disappointing.

360
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.099
Episode 2 of 42.

361
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:36.119
Yeah, yeah.

362
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.039
Episode 2 of victory of the Daleks.

363
00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:42.119
Like, we've talked about this before, Nathan needs to be a 0 partner.

364
00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:49.980
But what you do get from Long Doctor Who stories is the chance to hang out with characters in a world that you like.

365
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.500
And I think that this story successfully does that.

366
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.240
I care about Hooverville.

367
00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:55.799
I care about Frank.

368
00:26:55.859 --> 00:27:02.400
And actually we made to care a little bit more about Frank in this episode because we see him grieving the loss of Solomon.

369
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:07.319
And I think that that's a really nice touch and it is something that I think matters.

370
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.140
I care about Tallula and Laslow.

371
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:19.380
I think that that's lovely and her kind of bravery and all of that. like I think is really, really something.

372
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:24.660
And even though Laslow is dying for a sort of science fiction reason.

373
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:33.059
I actually don't mind that either because I think the tidy thing to do would be to just have him die.

374
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:41.880
You know, that he dies and doesn't live on and we don't end up with a world in which there's a pig guy living in New York in 1930.

375
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.000
And, you know, that's the same instinct.

376
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:49.440
I think that makes people want Ursula to die in love and monsters.

377
00:27:49.500 --> 00:28:08.339
And what we get instead is that the doctor and the world of Doctor Who, and even just, you know, trauma changes people in weird ways and the consequences of that are something that has to be lived with.

378
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:10.140
And I think that's a really interesting thing.

379
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:19.619
I think the choice of having the doctor save Laslo, which I think is a great scene and then having Laslo live on in Hooverville, I think, is terrific.

380
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:25.799
But also having Tallula very definitely staying with him and in love with him because she's choosing that as well.

381
00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:28.980
She's choosing to live through whatever he's going to live through with him.

382
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.019
Yeah, I think that's really lovely.

383
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:31.799
It is nice.

384
00:28:31.859 --> 00:28:36.000
You know, she refuses initially, doesn't she, to recognise him.

385
00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:39.779
Like it takes a while before she can recognise that that's last...

386
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:49.680
Yeah, I think that's actually a choice on the character's behalf where, you know, anyone can see that it's actually Laszlo, but he's being changed, but she's refusing to recognise that it's him for a while.

387
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:54.059
But she never, you know, she's still physically affectionate with him.

388
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:55.140
She calls him sweetheart.

389
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:58.259
She touches his face and his tail and his tail.

390
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.019
And I look forward to Sunday brunch.

391
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:05.160
I wonder how much pig he is.

392
00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:10.440
Oh, yeah.

393
00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:12.000
I think that's I think that's fun.

394
00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:18.779
And I do love the fact that they have some accommodation in Hooverville, you know, that people will stare at him, but he's accepted.

395
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.000
And that's what Hooverville is, isn't it?

396
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:21.839
That's the human factor.

397
00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:26.160
I also love about Hooverville, the fact they can't afford bread, but they've got a nice stash of guns.

398
00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.539
It's America.

399
00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:29.579
Actually, that is true.

400
00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:32.339
It does set up a wonderful world.

401
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.859
I like the world of Daleks in Manhattan.

402
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:43.619
And for the same reason I was saying last week that I really enjoy all the plate shots of 1930s New York skylines and everything, which look amazing and really set the tone.

403
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:50.880
I want this world to be interesting, and it turns out to be a little bit less interesting than I wanted it to be, and that's the root of the disappointment.

404
00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:52.380
It's not massive disappointment.

405
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.700
It's disappointing anyway.

406
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:10.380
You know how last week we talked about the Dalek voices and how Nick Briggs does a Peter Hawkins Dalek voice.

407
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:17.279
There's actually a point in the episode where when Dalek Khan takes control of the cult of Skaro.

408
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:19.920
He changes the pitch of the voice.

409
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:24.359
And the in-world reason for that is that, you know, he's in charge.

410
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:33.779
He's now in charge, so he's changed his voice because Dalek's respect, a more sort of high pitched screechy voice.

411
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:45.299
But the real reason was because he'd given Dalek Khan this deep raspy tone and it was hell on his throat. throat.

412
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:51.480
So he changed it there so he could actually get through the recording without dying.

413
00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:58.200
So there's that big final scene, isn't there, with Dalek Khan and the doctor just sort of confronting one another.

414
00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:00.000
Facing off in the laboratory.

415
00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:14.099
People are playing against type here, and that's what Russell was going for, and that was his instruction to Helen Rayno, but I think we're also seeing, it doesn't necessarily work out for the narrative or for the audience or indeed for the play itself.

416
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:20.700
If you're really going to posit a vault face in your main villains.

417
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:30.240
We kind of need a bit more happening behind us than building a gorgeous skyscraper and you know how much I care about gorgeous skyscrapers and Art Deco motifs.

418
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.220
And are you being served references?

419
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:32.759
Thank you, James.

420
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:34.920
That's in there as well.

421
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.720
And there's nods to Marilyn Monroe.

422
00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:47.880
I mean, it's everything's out of time and out of place, but it's the fundament of it being that we survived the global recession in the 20s and we'll do it again.

423
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:49.859
This is 2007 when this went out.

424
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:55.859
So we really did not think that the GFC would be survivable and perhaps we're not actually over that yet.

425
00:31:55.859 --> 00:32:01.859
Maybe that's where October 31st, or if you've got your bingo card, Brexit, is coming from.

426
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:16.140
This is perhaps uncomfortable to perform and to stage as well as to being in with as a viewers because it's a little bit too close to the point that we can't really write about how this would work out.

427
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:25.440
If you are going to tell this as a truthful, not even a metaphor, as a truthful piece of what is our dark and what is the light aspects of humanity.

428
00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:30.000
There's just got to be a massacre at the end of it because that's the best Doctor Who story of all time.

429
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:45.180
All right, so it's time for pix of the week, and James, we're gonna throw to you.

430
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:54.779
Well, I picked the 1931 adaptation of Frankenstein, the classic Boris Karlov black and white film.

431
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:56.519
James Whale.

432
00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:06.779
Mainly because it was one of the main inspirations for the visuals and a lot of the storytelling in this 2 part.

433
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:11.160
So when the Dalek army sort of heads off into Manhattan.

434
00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:13.619
James Strong lifts.

435
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.460
He deliberately references the torch.

436
00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:24.240
It's basically it's the villagers carrying pitchforks and torches kind of... those crossfades and things like that.

437
00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:29.819
Yeah, like that's very deliberately lifted from towards the end of Frankenstein.

438
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.220
The beds.

439
00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.019
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

440
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:40.440
Human dalek shells are waiting, are waiting on are very deliberate.

441
00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:41.819
The ones that are kind of lowered from the ceiling.

442
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:49.500
Yeah, in the same way that the bed that Frankenstein's monster is on that is all incredibly...

443
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:55.319
Yeah, and even, even, you know, waking them up with electricity, like it is a deliberate reference.

444
00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:01.440
I mean, that's the that's the most obvious of the references there is that bringing something to life with a bolt of lightning.

445
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:11.699
And also the Lemley, the Carl Lemley period at Universal, where it was such a beautiful deco experience and the sets and the timing of it, it's right on the mark.

446
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:14.699
I rewatched it last night for the 1st time in years.

447
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:21.539
It's beautiful in a way that I think Daleks, in Manhattan, evolution of the Daleks wants to be.

448
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:27.960
And visually, I think, is in places, but I really enjoy the film.

449
00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:32.099
And if you don't want to stop there, go on to brighter Frankenstein.

450
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.199
In many ways, a better film.

451
00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:35.400
Yeah, and it's gorgeous.

452
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:37.860
It is just, it is such a wonderful film.

453
00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:39.239
Oh, so Lancaster.

454
00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:40.079
Wow.

455
00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:47.280
And if you haven't had enough there, then I would suggest Paul Mars's, Brenda and nephew mysteries.

456
00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:48.239
Oh, they're fun.

457
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:50.579
They start with Nefer the bride.

458
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.659
So Paul Mars wrote for Doctor Who Fic for a long time and also.

459
00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:03.119
Well, the Tom Baker audios before he was at Big Finish, but they are set in Whitby from Dracula.

460
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:05.519
I've got Susan Jamison.

461
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:21.059
And they are basically the bride of Frankenstein, after she has retired to Whitby, as an elderly lady, and she's running a B&B. That sounds great.

462
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:25.619
Paul Mars is, of course, the inventor of Iris Wild Time.

463
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:26.039
Is that right?

464
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:26.820
Yeah.

465
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.699
The BBC have done radio adaptions of them.

466
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:30.239
Right.

467
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:30.659
So, yeah.

468
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.679
Peter.

469
00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:47.280
My pick of the week is someone which I picked off my bookshelf about 2 months ago and had to read because I recently returned to the country to live and so I've been going back to my parents' house and just going through my old library and occasionally, you know, plucking something out to have a read of.

470
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:55.199
And this was Terence Dick's blood harvest, his new adventure from 19, I don't know, 1994, 95, somewhere around there.

471
00:35:55.260 --> 00:36:08.760
So if you want to read something which is roughly contemporary with Daleks in Manhattan, and set in a similar city, Chicago, and a writer having enormous fun with their subjects matter, then go and give it a read.

472
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.940
I think his books were better than his TV.

473
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.739
Tories on the whole.

474
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.559
I loved his missing adventures or new adventures.

475
00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:17.639
Oh, me too.

476
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.579
Although I don't agree with you about his TV story.

477
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:21.539
Exodus is great.

478
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.159
Oh, Exetus is brilliant.

479
00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:25.559
But if you look at the TV stories that Terrence actually wrote.

480
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:29.159
He's just a master, the war games, Breen of Morbius.

481
00:36:29.219 --> 00:36:30.300
Horror Fang Rock.

482
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:31.440
The 5 doctors.

483
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:37.079
Praying a Porpius wasn't written by Terrence Stewart. by Robin Bland.

484
00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.800
Actually, if you look at the sensibility of that, It's all Terence sticks.

485
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:41.940
Like it feels like him.

486
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.739
But yes, read Blood Harvest.

487
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:44.579
You won't regret it.

488
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.960
Aside from sort of a late switch to Gallifrey, which doesn't work at all.

489
00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:50.340
It never does.

490
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.119
It never does.

491
00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:53.159
With its beige sofas.

492
00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:54.539
Well, indeed.

493
00:36:54.599 --> 00:37:03.900
And the antithesis of beige is the soundscape of this story, and I think that's probably why I love these 2 episodes, because Murray Gold has really enjoyed himself here.

494
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:12.719
And even the little moments and the, the, almost to the point of Foley, just the, the sound points that he places in the score are beautiful.

495
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:21.300
But I would just go and listen to Gershman's Rhapsody in Blue, because he notes it at the beginning when they're under the Statue of Liberty, and then the rifts keep going through it.

496
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.739
It's just a beautiful piece of music.

497
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.800
You don't have to take out a novel then or watch.

498
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:28.739
I did last night in preparation in this podcast.

499
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.059
Yeah, and it's really gorgeous.

500
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:30.420
Yeah.

501
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.480
Well, I'm tempted to pick years and years again.

502
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:34.920
I can't remember the last time.

503
00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:35.760
I done that?

504
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:36.659
I'm not allowed to do that.

505
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.519
Alright, absolutely allowed to do that.

506
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:40.619
Well, you should all watch it anyway.

507
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:41.820
It is tremendous.

508
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.840
And it just reminds us that we don't deserve Russell T.D. Davies.

509
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:55.500
But failing that, someone we do deserve is Eric Sayward, and I'm going to recommend the novelisation of Resurrection of the Daleks.

510
00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.619
I have started it and it is as terrible as you would imagine.

511
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:10.860
And I do want to thank friend of the podcast, Colin Neal, who actually sent me a copy of it signed by Eric Saywood. as Colin Neal.

512
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:18.059
And no, I've seen a photo of Colin with Eric Saywood and a pile of the novelisations to hand.

513
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:23.639
So I'm assured that it really is Eric's signature, and I just hope that Colin didn't tell Eric Saywood.

514
00:38:23.699 --> 00:38:24.360
Exactly.

515
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:27.239
Did Eric sign at Snog marry or a boy?

516
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.760
Oh, God.

517
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:33.480
Because I did best, which I don't think is actually short for all the best.

518
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.400
It's short for I am the best.

519
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:37.559
Eric, say what.

520
00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:42.239
Why, oh, why, couldn't we have had the novelisation of Resurrection of the Daleks by, oh, John Peel?

521
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:11.400
Weldy listener, that's all we have time for this week.

522
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:18.539
We will see you next week for what looks like a truly alarming product launch as we suit up to witness the Lazarus experiment.

523
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:24.719
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com.

524
00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:28.380
Flight through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

525
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:43.320
You can also find our series 11 flashcast Jody Interterterra.com and at Jody Interterra on Twitter at our James Bond commentary podcast bondfinger at bondfinger.com at bondfinger on Facebook and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

526
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:49.920
Until next time, may you find true love or bacon in the arms of a man like Laslow.

527
00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:52.440
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

528
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:53.219
Good night.

529
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.079
Good night. and get crackling.

530
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:05.039
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, James Selwood, and Richard Stone.

531
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:08.760
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

532
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:17.940
This episode, a long tradition of Doctor Who monsters that in some way resemble human genitalia, was recorded on the 11th of August 2019 and released on the 13th of October.

533
00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:26.039
Founder and beloved host of the podcast, Brendan Jones is really killing it with his YouTube channel right now.

534
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:31.980
To see what he's been up to, search for brandy bongos on YouTube or follow the link in our show notes.

535
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:35.760
It doesn't really go anywhere, does it?

536
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:38.219
This episode itself doesn't really go anywhere.

537
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:39.539
I can talk about that.

538
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.059
So I feel like I've closed down to arguments in a row.

539
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:51.360
Yeah, see, we've gone through the 1st 5 things on my list.

540
00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.980
That's the thing.

541
00:40:53.039 --> 00:41:00.719
My, my, my notes for the 1st episode are like 7 pages of hormones for the 2nd are...

542
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:02.159
Because it's a story wrapup.

543
00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:03.300
Yeah, it really is.

544
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:03.599
Okay.

545
00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:05.639
As we were saying, this really is.