WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:56:41 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.719 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:43.799 the only Doctor Who podcast that falls between the idea and the 3 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:46.320 reality, the motion and the act. 4 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:47.579 It's quite nice here. 5 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:48.899 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:52.320 I'm Brendan, and I'm squeezing all of the orange juice out of 7 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:53.640 maybe from Coronation Street. 8 00:00:53.939 --> 00:00:55.859 Hi, I'm Colin. 9 00:00:56.460 --> 00:01:00.359 Well, here at FDE, we love nothing more than a huge opening, and 10 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:04.079 so here we are in Southwark at Lazarus Laboratories with a canape 11 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.239 in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other. 12 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.560 Mark Gatis is about to change what it means to be human, so let's 13 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.739 take a look at the outcome of the Lazarus experiment. 14 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:34.920 This, I think, is one that tends to sort of fall between the 15 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:36.599 cracks in series three. 16 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:41.099 It's sort of wedged between the highly beloved Dalek 2 parter and 17 00:01:41.099 --> 00:01:44.280 the highly beloved human 2 parter. 18 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:46.140 What do you think of this one, Colin? 19 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:51.719 I think it's good, but it's not outstanding in any way. 20 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:56.400 I think it's got 3 elements to it that together, save it. 21 00:01:56.459 --> 00:02:01.019 Oh, I think there's kind of the main storyline of Lazarus being 22 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:04.200 the lecturer sort of old man and sort of the ledger hive in 23 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:05.519 reverse for about 10 minutes. 24 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:10.020 Um, and then you've got the, the Boris Saxon, I'm sorry, Harold 25 00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:15.000 Saxon, foreboding coming on, which I love. 26 00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:17.759 I loved all that season 3 buildup to the reveal. 27 00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:23.460 And I think the other part is, The Martha doctor, Martha family 28 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:25.680 doctor family relationship coming to life. 29 00:02:26.099 --> 00:02:29.819 All those 3 elements together carry the whole 45 minutes. 30 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:34.919 I think the challenge I have with it is the monster nurse is a 31 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:35.639 little bit too much. 32 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:37.500 It seems to go on forever. 33 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:42.659 Um, uh, but, you know, I, I think, I think the standout piece 34 00:02:42.659 --> 00:02:43.979 actually, is Mark Gatis. 35 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:45.780 He's very, very good in this. 36 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:48.120 So, um, I like it. 37 00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:50.460 I think he's really good, isn't he? 38 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.520 The old man acting that he does at the beginning is spectacular. 39 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:55.800 It's sensational and the prosthetics. 40 00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:57.300 Yeah, yeah. 41 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.539 Part of part of the reason why he was chosen for the part. 42 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.719 Russell had wanted to cast him as something since the series 43 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:07.319 started, but didn't want it to just be a cameo role. 44 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:11.879 He really wanted to give Mark a good dramatic role to sink his 45 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:12.599 teeth into. 46 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:17.759 And part of the reason he got this role. was, in fact, his work on 47 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.879 League of Gentlemen because they knew he'd be able to handle the 48 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.580 prosthetics and act through them. 49 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:28.979 And the old man face makeup was literally recreated every day. 50 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.259 There was a new prosthetic every day. 51 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.340 So as well as having a new face every day and it being modelled on 52 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.479 a bust of Mark Gatus. 53 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:41.159 They also used a bust they have of Vincent Price to add in 54 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:42.360 realistic wrinkles. 55 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:43.919 Brilliant. 56 00:03:43.979 --> 00:03:46.740 And it is fantastic ageing makeup. 57 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.180 We get a lot of ageing makeup this season. 58 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.080 Yeah, so I think we've said before, it's the BBC foam machine of 59 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:52.740 series 3. 60 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:55.979 Oh, I missed press on beards. 61 00:03:56.939 --> 00:04:02.400 The funny thing is, what I got watching Mark Gatus again in this 62 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:06.060 especially the scene where he's up on the roof with Tish, is I 63 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:08.460 feel like I'm watching Evil Peter Davis. 64 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:12.300 That's what that's what Mark Gatis says, isn't it? 65 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:14.699 He's like, when he, on the commentary, when he comes out of the 66 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:17.699 machine, it's like, 0 my god, look, I've turned into, uh, I've 67 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:18.720 turned into Peter Davidson. 68 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:22.379 Well, he had played Peter Davidson in League of Gentlemen, hadn't 69 00:04:22.379 --> 00:04:22.560 he? 70 00:04:22.620 --> 00:04:27.660 The that lovely vet who inadvertently kills all of the, um, he's 71 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:29.699 definitely doing a Peter Davidson voice for that. 72 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:32.100 Yeah, and it's the same wig. 73 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.139 It is literally the same wing. 74 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:35.459 It's a chinary, isn't it? 75 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.819 Yeah, yeah, Mr. Cinnery, Mr. Cinnery's wig when he's the young 76 00:04:38.819 --> 00:04:39.060 man. 77 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.639 That is canon that is confirmed. 78 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.040 Yeah, he is the standout for me in this episode as well. 79 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:49.199 And I do I do agree it falls short. 80 00:04:49.259 --> 00:04:54.060 I think part of the problem is, I call this episode a strange case 81 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:58.439 of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Fly, because it's basically Jekyll and Hyde 82 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:00.720 with a bit of the fly throw now. guess so. 83 00:05:00.779 --> 00:05:01.560 Yeah, that's good. 84 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:02.459 Which is fine. 85 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.420 If we didn't already have a tribute to James Wales Frankenstein 86 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:07.379 over the last 2 weeks. 87 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:08.879 Yeah, I guess so. 88 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:13.560 I have to say that the fact that that, like the monster stuff is 89 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.800 sort of massively Finn, I mean, you know, we discover the monsters 90 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.040 sort of eating people and then we have a bit of a chase around and 91 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.620 we sort of try and blow them up and stuff like that. 92 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:27.540 Like, I am absolutely on board with that because it does give more 93 00:05:27.540 --> 00:05:31.439 time for those other 2 elements to breathe. 94 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:37.680 And I think that Lazarus is an interesting character and the sort 95 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.079 of character that you might expect Gatus to play. 96 00:05:40.139 --> 00:05:43.319 I mean, the idea that he's old enough to have memories of the 97 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:47.040 blitz, that we're in Southwark, not very far from Southwark 98 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:50.519 Cathedral, which is where he hid, you know, he remembers 99 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.019 experiencing the blitz. 100 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:57.060 And just all of that kind of talk about mortality and stuff, like 101 00:05:57.060 --> 00:05:58.680 it's not particularly deep or anything. 102 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:03.720 But it does give him the chance to act and it gives him the chance 103 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.000 to kind of earn our sympathy in some ways. 104 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:08.339 As you say, he does it very, very well. 105 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.899 And I think the the sort of moral of the story, the, uh, it comes 106 00:06:12.899 --> 00:06:13.860 across very well. 107 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.220 I think the whole kind of comparing himself to the doctor and what 108 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:19.980 does the doctor know about living forever and he's like, oh 109 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:22.139 believe me, it isn't that, it isn't that awesome. 110 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.399 Um, and also the, I think Mark Gatis describes his character a 111 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.300 little bit as sort of, um, you know, not not a victim or anything 112 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:35.879 but sort of um, deluded or um, misguided, not necessarily evil. 113 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:38.220 But he is pretty horrific to people. 114 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:41.399 Every single person, especially the ones he trains. 115 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:46.079 Uh, but, um, You know, he, it is this kind of, when you look at it 116 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:51.959 now, it's, especially creepy with Tish with uh, Lady Thor, with 117 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:52.379 everyone. 118 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:56.100 It's just this horrible creepy. imagine if men could do this. 119 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.819 Well, you know, if people could do this, what the hell would the 120 00:06:59.819 --> 00:07:00.600 society be like? 121 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.540 And I think with, it reminds me a bit of the last season of 122 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:07.439 Torchwood, which I still can't be bothered to watch again, but 123 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.939 that it's the reverse of that. in the sense of what if they'd made 124 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:16.259 this a bit longer in terms of what Russell normally does, you know 125 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:20.160 with big epic episodes, is you kind of see the society, how it 126 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.160 develops as a result of this technology, and then you press the 127 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:24.120 recess switch or something. 128 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.959 But imagine a word where if they had taken it to an extreme and 129 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.360 made everyone younger and what would be happening. 130 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:33.839 You know, it's like his, his, his tropes are on this stuff that 131 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.060 he's, he's done in years and years as well where he takes 132 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:39.420 technology and takes it to the extreme and sort of predicts the 133 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:39.660 future. 134 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:41.819 But I feel that they could have done a bit of that. 135 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:44.879 They could have had more of that, more of the machines turning out 136 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:46.139 more people and what would it be like? 137 00:07:46.259 --> 00:07:50.579 But you get a good glimpse into it, into him and his sort of 138 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:52.139 horrible nature and what would it be? 139 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.839 What would it be like if people could the age and especially 140 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:55.800 horrible men like this? 141 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:59.040 I mean, is it a thing that actually happens? 142 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:03.420 So we're told, I think, that the technology is, in fact, really 143 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:05.519 only going to be available to the rich. 144 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:10.740 And the idea that you have rich people kind of feeding on less 145 00:08:10.740 --> 00:08:14.040 fortunate people in order to sustain themselves. 146 00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:17.459 It's a fairly kind of obvious metaphor, isn't it? 147 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:23.100 But also at the same time, with technology, as we've seen with 148 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:26.699 iPhones and smartphones, when they 1st came out, they were, you 149 00:08:26.699 --> 00:08:28.139 know, the status symbol of the rich. 150 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:34.620 And now, most people have some kind of smartphone or tablet. 151 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:38.639 You know, it may not be every member of the family has one, but 152 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.740 the technology becomes cheaper. 153 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.000 And I think if Russell had looked forward with that, as you're 154 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.059 suggesting, Colin, we could have looked into, you know, the rich 155 00:08:48.059 --> 00:08:51.720 people, they go in once they come out, it's done, but for the 156 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:54.179 poorer people, there's a model where they have to keep going back 157 00:08:54.179 --> 00:08:56.879 once a year and that could be the sting in the tale of the story 158 00:08:56.879 --> 00:08:57.720 of, no, they don't. 159 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.299 You don't have, they don't have to. 160 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.340 It's just that is how the machine's set up. 161 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.860 You know, Van Staten 2 years ago. 162 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.860 Why sell one cure when I can sell a 1000 palliatives? 163 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:13.559 But yeah, that's not the story that Stephen Greenhorn and Russell 164 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:14.220 want to tell. 165 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.679 They want to tell the story about a scorpion monster draining 166 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:17.879 people at a cocktail party. 167 00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:20.759 So what do we think of the scorpion monster? 168 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:22.320 I was just going to ask. 169 00:09:22.379 --> 00:09:26.759 I think the body's all right. but the face is just wrong. 170 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:29.220 Why doesn't it have Mark Gatis's face? 171 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:30.659 wouldn't that have been so great? 172 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:31.860 The funny. 173 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:33.720 Yeah, the funny thing is, it's got a face, which isn't Mark 174 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:34.320 Gatus. 175 00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:36.179 Yeah, it's Matt. 176 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.580 Obviously, that's what they mean to do. 177 00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:39.659 Davidson's face on it. 178 00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:42.899 Coming out of the Starfield, yeah. 179 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:48.000 Look, when I rewatched this this week, The 1st time you really get 180 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.399 a good look at the monster when it's chasing the doctor down the 181 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.299 corridor and goes up on the roof and things, I thought this is 182 00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:55.500 really impressive. 183 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:59.759 And the thing it reminded me of was the Scorpion King in the Mummy 184 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:03.360 Returns, which was about 5 years before this and looks dreadful 185 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.039 which for a feature film. 186 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.299 And to get something that looks better than that, aside from the 187 00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:09.539 face. 188 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:12.360 And that's the thing, the face doesn't look bad to me. 189 00:10:12.419 --> 00:10:14.580 It just doesn't look like who it's meant to look like. 190 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:16.980 It should absolutely look like Mark Gatis. 191 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:18.000 It's Edmund Warwick. 192 00:10:18.059 --> 00:10:19.860 That's it. 193 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:26.519 But like the whole thing of it being like made out of, you know, a 194 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:27.960 ribcage and stuff like that. 195 00:10:28.019 --> 00:10:31.080 Like he's he's sort of exploded and turned inside out. 196 00:10:31.139 --> 00:10:33.960 And the sort of noises that it makes because all of the 197 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:38.580 transformation really is seen off screen or you see it happening 198 00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:42.539 in shadows on the wall or whatever, but it's all accompanied by 199 00:10:42.539 --> 00:10:46.320 these sort of gross popping noises as if, you know, he's kind of 200 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.139 bursting open and turning inside out. 201 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.080 But, you know, that scene you were talking about where he is 202 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:55.379 running down the corridor, and it does the trick that they do in 203 00:10:55.379 --> 00:10:59.159 the Krillitain thing in school reunion, where it's as if the 204 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.559 camera didn't know that it was going to do that. 205 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:04.500 So the camera move kind of lags a bit behind. 206 00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:08.340 Yeah, you know, the thing crawling up the walls and onto the 207 00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:08.580 roof. 208 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:10.679 And I think that works really well. 209 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.679 And I think it's a surprisingly frightening monster for Doctor 210 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:14.220 Who. 211 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.120 Like it, you know, it's gross in the way that the aliens grows, you 212 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:18.360 know. 213 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:22.019 It's a bit like that next generation episode. 214 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:22.799 I think you know the one. 215 00:11:22.860 --> 00:11:26.340 I mean, Genesis, where they all start to de-volve into like 216 00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:28.139 spiders and scorpions and whatever. 217 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.559 But my question is, why did someone not just karate chop it, like 218 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:32.100 the merka? 219 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.080 Why does the doctor run into a room where there are like umpteen 220 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:38.519 bunts and burners? 221 00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:41.639 He can just switch on and just basically show all children how to 222 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:42.419 blow up their school. 223 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:48.000 I was actually a little bit worried about that scene as a school 224 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:48.539 teacher. 225 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:52.139 Did you show it in Dr. Hoopla? 226 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.899 No, but that is exactly what I was thinking of. 227 00:11:56.220 --> 00:12:00.179 You know who should have karate chopped the monster, Olive Woman? 228 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.519 Yeah, that's actually how she's credited. 229 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:03.419 Olive Woman. 230 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:04.080 No, that's her name. 231 00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:05.159 Yeah, her 1st name's Olive. 232 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:06.360 Mrs Woman. 233 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:06.779 Yeah. 234 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:09.419 So much phenomena determinism. 235 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.539 But yeah, I mean, in the radio time, she's credited as party guest 236 00:12:12.539 --> 00:12:14.940 because obviously they didn't want to spoil the joke because that 237 00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:16.080 joke is not in the script. 238 00:12:16.139 --> 00:12:17.100 Oh really? 239 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:19.740 The Olive Joe. It was figured out during filming, and I don't know 240 00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:20.460 who suggested it. 241 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:25.679 But yeah, in the script, the line is the only risk here is you 242 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.620 causing panic, which is just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 243 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:30.659 Oh, well, sorry. 244 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:35.580 So obviously someone saw the opportunity for a joke and decided 245 00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:37.559 hey, you know, let's put in a joke. 246 00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:41.100 You do know that she's going to be killed the moment she opens her 247 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:44.340 mouth. you know, like they're not just paying her to do one line 248 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:44.639 are they? 249 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:45.480 Yeah. 250 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.120 She has to do some being killed acting there as well. 251 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:49.860 Don't kill me, Mr. Ghostface. 252 00:12:49.919 --> 00:13:02.580 I want to be in the sequel Another one of my disappointments in 253 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:06.960 that evacuation scene is, you know, when they come down to the 254 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:09.960 doors and they can't get out and Martha figures out, there must be 255 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:11.279 some override in security. 256 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:14.580 First of all, freemers jump across the reception desk is very 257 00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.059 leisurely. 258 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:15.960 Yeah, yeah. 259 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:17.279 Very leisurely. 260 00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:17.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 261 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:22.379 But also, the camera then goes into the booth and it starts on 262 00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:24.240 this desk with a big red button in the middle. 263 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:28.080 But Martha then runs over to the wall and waves the sonic 264 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.620 screwdriver. 265 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.179 It should be the big red button. 266 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.000 She hasn't been in Doctor Who long enough to know about the big 267 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:33.779 red button. 268 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:34.559 I think. 269 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:36.000 That's the in joke. 270 00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:38.879 I mean, you have a machine like that and then it just has to have 271 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.019 a massive red button. 272 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.559 And then it just, there's all these like, it looks like servers or 273 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.320 sound mixing machines or something, they're pressing random 274 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:46.919 buttons on. 275 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.980 You need that big red button, didn't there? 276 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:53.940 But what do you guys think of the doctor meeting Martha's family? 277 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.639 This is my favourite thing about the episode. 278 00:13:56.700 --> 00:13:57.360 I think. 279 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:03.659 And we've talked before about, you know, just kind of wondering 280 00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:07.559 how Doctor Who can even go on now that Camille Kajuri's not in 281 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:07.740 it. 282 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:13.740 And, you know, in previous years, we had sort of seen the family 283 00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:19.080 basically sort of every 3 episodes or whatever, we'd seen them 284 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.820 sort of fairly frequently, and we haven't. 285 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:21.600 It's been a while. 286 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:26.399 In fact, we'll go back and talk about this later, but this is her 287 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:32.519 1st time back. after her kind of one trip, which kind of spirals 288 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:33.299 out of control. 289 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.240 So we must make sure that we talk about what we think about that. 290 00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:41.519 But I loved Francine in the 1st episode. 291 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:45.179 I thought she was really terrific and it was, you know, what's 292 00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:45.960 Russell going to do? 293 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.600 He can't give us another sort of wonderful, loveable mother. 294 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:54.779 And so he gives us a rather sort of spiky and prickly one who is 295 00:14:54.779 --> 00:14:58.799 much, much more confident than Jackie and a bit more difficult 296 00:14:58.799 --> 00:14:59.519 than Jackie. 297 00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:00.840 And I just, I adore her. 298 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:02.159 I think she's really terrific. 299 00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:05.700 And, you know, giving her that relationship with her ex-husband 300 00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:07.740 and all of that sort of stuff. 301 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.440 I think just makes her so much more interesting. 302 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:15.539 And having her so central to this episode, like having a Doctor 303 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:19.320 Who adventure where it's not, you know, Martha's in peril, but 304 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:20.759 it's Martha's family as well. 305 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.159 So we've got Francine and she's been invited. 306 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:27.179 She's brought Leo with her and Leo's very sweet. 307 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:28.679 He's great. 308 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:31.980 I mean, I really enjoy Reggie Yates and his star was sort of on 309 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:32.580 the rise here. 310 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.220 You know, he'd been on telly for a few years already at this point 311 00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:38.639 but after this, he starts presenting documentaries and music shows 312 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.039 and what have you, which will present a problem for this season 313 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.240 later down the line. 314 00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:46.919 But here, we're told, even before he arrives, that him in a suit 315 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:48.899 is not something that happens very often. 316 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.980 And something I was keeping an eye out for because, uh, dear 317 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:56.879 listener, as, um, you can you can probably trace the date we 318 00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.039 recorded this before we get to the credits because Nathan and I 319 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.279 were at a wedding last night of, um, contributor to the podcast 320 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:06.899 Simon Moore, and there, it was a black tie function, so people 321 00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:07.799 were in bow ties. 322 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.539 And, you know, I know how to tie bow ties. 323 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.000 I was looking around at all the people wearing fake bow toes. 324 00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:16.980 And the doctor is wearing a proper typo tie, but Leo, of course 325 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:21.659 who is not comfortable in a suit, is wearing a pre-tied bowtie. is 326 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:23.100 just a little character detail. 327 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:28.860 And also we get a subtle line from Leo, much like Martha's line a 328 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:31.799 few weeks ago in the Shakespeare code of, you know, what do I do? 329 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:33.000 I'm not exactly why. 330 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:36.240 Leo seems to imply that people might mistake him for a waiter. 331 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:38.879 Oh yeah, but I mean, he's wearing a tongue as well. 332 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:40.860 But everyone else is. 333 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:44.159 Everyone's wearing tuxes and most of the other guests are white. 334 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:44.700 Right. 335 00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:45.059 You know? 336 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:50.220 So it's just it's just a little line, but I think it's a very true 337 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:55.500 thought for someone who is not in the position of going to these 338 00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.919 sorts of parties, not in the position of wearing a tox and is kind 339 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.500 of a bit uncomfortable with that. 340 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.380 I just find Reggie Yates utterly charming. 341 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:05.880 And of course, utterly gorgeous. 342 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:13.200 The episode subverts expectations a little with him because, of 343 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.119 course, when all hell breaks loose, he's the one who's 344 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:15.839 incapacitating. 345 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:20.279 So Tish has to join in the action and Francine, as we've said is 346 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:20.759 very strong. 347 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:26.579 And I do wonder with Francine, she immediately distrusts the 348 00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:28.019 doctor immediately. 349 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.400 He spilt her champagne. 350 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:29.700 Come on. 351 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.079 Oh, but even before that, like, you know, but yeah, true. 352 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:38.519 I mean, rude, but I'm watching it, and she has a few other lines 353 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.700 here and there, and I get the impression that it's kind of, it's 354 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:46.200 kind of a thing of because of what Clive has done to her, she's 355 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:49.619 very protective of the men her daughters are getting involved with 356 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:52.500 she doesn't want them to go through what she's gone through. 357 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:55.500 And the doctor is utterly intimidated by her. 358 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.460 Yeah, yeah. 359 00:17:56.460 --> 00:17:59.279 Absolutely intimidated, like cannot cope at all. 360 00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:03.839 There's that wonderful thing where he says that he's heard so much 361 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:09.660 so much about from Martha and then he completely dries up. 362 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:14.039 It's almost like they it's basically implied that they've just had 363 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.079 a one night stand and she's trying to get to the bottom of it. 364 00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:19.140 Yeah, and it's that comedy of errors thing where the doctor 365 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:20.819 wouldn't pick up that that's what she thinks. 366 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.839 Yeah, yeah. 367 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:22.680 You know? 368 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:27.420 And it's an interesting contrast to when he meets Jackie after he 369 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:30.839 brings Rose home and he tries to be as honest as he can. 370 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:34.859 He's like, I employed Rose as my travelling companion, you know 371 00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:36.839 and he's trying to kind of smooth it over. 372 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:39.960 Like his 1st words to Jackie are basically, sorry. 373 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:40.680 Yeah. 374 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.059 You know, it's been a year. 375 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:42.420 Sorry. 376 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:47.339 And I kind of watched this scene and where the doctor dries, he's 377 00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:49.380 kind of like, no, no, no. 378 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.819 The last time I said something, I got hit. 379 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.200 Yeah, well. 380 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:53.039 Yeah, well. 381 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:57.720 And I just love that, you know, what he's trying to switch on the 382 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:01.799 charm that he knows he has in this incarnation and she's just, no 383 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:03.000 I am immune, sir. 384 00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:05.220 It's wonderful, isn't it? 385 00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:08.279 I like the way it's so different. 386 00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:09.900 I like the way it's they didn't. 387 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:14.819 I mean, the whole aliens of London where it is that one year gap 388 00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:17.160 was such a brilliant, brilliant move. 389 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:21.119 I'm so glad they did not just not doing it again, but almost 390 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.299 subverting it and doing the opposite of it's only been a few hours 391 00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:26.640 and where Martha's like, oh, my God. 392 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.619 You know, mom, I haven't seen you for ages. 393 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.339 She's like, what? 394 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.259 Okay, you know, nice to see you as well. 395 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:31.680 Yeah. 396 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.420 No, I love Martha's family. 397 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.819 I think they should have been in the season for much longer. 398 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:40.680 Certainly we will get a lot more of Francine later in the year and 399 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:45.059 one little brief look at Leo, unfortunately. 400 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.980 But, you know, Francine is terrific in it and it is established 401 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.740 here, just how protective. 402 00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:56.160 She is of Martha and whether that's because Clive was so horrible 403 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:01.319 or whether that's what she's like or whether there's a giant 404 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.380 skeleton scorpion thing running around. 405 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.140 She's sort of naturally protective as a result of that, who 406 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:07.500 knows? 407 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.500 But she is really good. 408 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:13.500 And Russell just uses her again and again and again. 409 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:14.339 Yes, yeah. 410 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:20.460 And the great thing about Ojo Ando for we genre fans is she has 411 00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:24.299 gone on to play Colonel Casey in the new Thunderbirds our go TV 412 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:25.019 series. 413 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:25.619 Oh, really? 414 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:26.940 Yeah, my goodness. 415 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.819 She's basically the brigadier in Thunderbirds. 416 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:30.779 Oh, awesome. 417 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.460 Yeah, she's really great. 418 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:42.539 Which, uh, I suppose, brings us to uh, Goo Goo and Bartha Raw. 419 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:43.680 MBE. 420 00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:45.000 Well, CBE. 421 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.980 Yeah, she's huge, isn't she? 422 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:47.759 She is. 423 00:20:47.819 --> 00:20:53.039 Yeah, so I think, you know, the 1st thing that I think of is Sanju 424 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:53.640 Nepero. 425 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:54.240 Of course. 426 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.940 Which if we had pics of the week, it would be that. 427 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:01.920 It's the Black Mirror episode that doesn't make you hate humanity 428 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:07.440 and, you know, and she's wonderful in it, like just incredibly 429 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:07.859 good in it. 430 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.019 I was lucky enough to see her as Ophelia. 431 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:14.220 Oh wow. 432 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.039 Opposite Jude Law as Hamlet. 433 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:19.920 Oh, Penelope Wilton as Gertrude. 434 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.640 Gosh. 435 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:22.740 Kevin McNally is the uncle. 436 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.259 Like it was a full-blown doctor. 437 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:29.759 I mean, that show is the show that made me realise, 1st of all 438 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.400 Jude Law can actually act because I hadn't rated him that highly 439 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.460 but I think I just seen him in a bunch of similar parts, but... 440 00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:39.960 She was just amazing as Ophelia. 441 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:43.500 And at the other end of the spectrum, she's also done a film 442 00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:45.660 called The Cloverfield Paradox. 443 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:46.559 Was that terrible? 444 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:50.759 Well, it's a sequel to the excellent movie Cloverfield. 445 00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.680 And it's excellent. 446 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:54.839 Excellent follow-up 10 Cloverfield Lane. 447 00:21:54.900 --> 00:22:01.079 And it started life as a completely unrelated sci-fi show, which 448 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:04.859 was then folded into the Cloverfield universe, very quietly taken 449 00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:09.180 off cinema releases and was then dropped on Netflix with no pre 450 00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:09.180 publicity. 451 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:10.019 Yeah, it's terrible. 452 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.259 But again, she's amazing in it. 453 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:15.299 I think I've seen that Hamlet. 454 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:17.700 You think you saw that happened? 455 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.839 I remember I remember Jude Law and they did this amazing snowing 456 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.779 indoors effect, but I don't remember much else about it. 457 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:26.339 At the Wyndham Theatre? 458 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 459 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:28.319 Well, I have seen it maybe. 460 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:29.640 We were sick together. 461 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:32.519 Yeah, it was while I was living in the UK. 462 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:35.940 A friend of mine was the set designer, so he got me tickets for 463 00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:37.380 the whole season, which was lovely of it. 464 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:39.240 That was an amazing set. 465 00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:40.859 Absolutely amazing design. 466 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.140 Yeah, no, she is, she is terrific in it. 467 00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:46.680 Again, someone I wish we could have coming back, doing more 468 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:50.519 because she's, you know, her and Martha together would have been 469 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:54.119 great companions and, you know, a sister sister relationship. 470 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:56.099 I entirely agree. 471 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.599 I remember at the time in 2007, I thought that's where we were 472 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:01.200 going with this. 473 00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:05.160 I thought that the back half of the season would be Martha and 474 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.259 Tish bouncing around in the Tartars. 475 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.680 We do get her back for quite a bit in the last 2 episodes. 476 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:12.359 Oh, absolutely, which is wonderful. 477 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.099 She is really great. 478 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.480 And having the 2 of them together, having her be the one who kind 479 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.759 of needs rescuing a little bit as well. 480 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:24.480 And she's got one hell of a career, doesn't she? 481 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:28.440 Originally, I had thought that, you know, this whole season takes 482 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.960 place in a week that like election day. 483 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:32.940 Is election day only a few days after? 484 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:34.980 Yeah, I think it's like 3 days after this. 485 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:38.700 Can it possibly be, and she's got another job now with Harold 486 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:39.180 Jackson? 487 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:43.799 Well, I think the implication is because Saxon is funding 488 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:45.359 Lazarus. 489 00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:50.039 So the job she has with Lazarus is the same job she's on her way 490 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.279 to in Smith and Jones because that's yesterday. 491 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:54.299 Right, right. 492 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:59.579 And then after that dries up, the company she's working for is 493 00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:00.720 owned by Mr. Saxon. 494 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.940 So she just gets called into 10 Downing Street. 495 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.000 And the thing is, if you get if you get magically called into 10 496 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.039 Downing Street, you're just going to go, okay. 497 00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:12.000 And I suppose Mr. Saxon knows who she is. 498 00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:14.579 That's why she's got this job. 499 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.900 That's why she's got these jobs. 500 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.240 But it is it's an incredible career trajectory. 501 00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:22.799 I would love to go into 10 Downing Street around this time with 502 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:27.059 some custard pies and a few harsh words at the moment. 503 00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:28.799 Yeah. 504 00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:34.019 I absolutely love the, the, when you see, when, you know, the end 505 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:37.859 of utopia when all this stuff is revealed, spoiler alert, that it 506 00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:40.319 all made sense, and there was all this buildup ever since the 507 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:41.940 absorbel off reading the telegraph. 508 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.460 And it all brilliantly built up. 509 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.740 And I went through this thought. 510 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.640 I was thinking yesterday. 511 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:53.460 Would it have been good to see a bit of Harold Saxon before the 512 00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:54.119 reveal? 513 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.039 And I think on balance? 514 00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:57.119 No, I think they got it right. 515 00:24:57.180 --> 00:25:00.299 I think I would have kind of liked, well, him to appear on TV and 516 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:03.299 to have made some statements and then maybe maybe there is. 517 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.539 I haven't seen it rewatched the rest of the season, but I think 518 00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:07.200 they got it right. 519 00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:11.339 This distant power sort of that knows that the doctrine is trying 520 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:13.140 to manipulate and discredit him. 521 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.680 Um, I think it's very, very clever, and then it's just bang at the 522 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.099 end of the season. 523 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:20.700 Are there vote Saxon posters around yet? 524 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:21.720 When do they 1st start appearing? 525 00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:26.099 Um, there was a, there were vote Saxon posters in Smith & Jones. 526 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.680 But I believe the 1st one, the 1st vote Saxon poster is in Captain 527 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.500 Jack Harkness at the end of Torchwood season one. 528 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:35.400 Wow, okay. 529 00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:41.400 Yeah, just before Jack and Tosh go back in time in the alleyway. 530 00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:43.200 There's a poster in the background. 531 00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:48.480 Yes, I'm pretty sure it was that because that was around the end 532 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.279 of 2006. 533 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:56.819 And then in March 2007 when Smith and Jones comes on, people go 534 00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:58.559 hold on, what's that poster in the back? 535 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:03.420 That poster, hold on, didn't Mr. Saxon order the tank to fire on 536 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:03.900 the wet? 537 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.000 We found the ark. 538 00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:06.660 Yes. 539 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.460 And it's a really brilliant arc. 540 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:12.059 You know, it's pretty similar to Bad Wolf in that it's something 541 00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:14.519 that happens at the end of the season that it has an effect on 542 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.660 everything previously, but that was all kind of a bit hand wavy 543 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:21.900 and sort of a little bit made up as it goes along. 544 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:27.119 Whereas this is at the end of episode 11, the master travels back 545 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:33.720 in time to sometime during season 2 and then becomes, you know, a 546 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.700 political figure and then eventually the prime minister. 547 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.180 It is it's amazingly simple, but it's super effective. 548 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:39.900 Yeah. 549 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:44.339 And as you were saying, Colin, I was wondering myself, at the end 550 00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.640 when Francine makes her final call to Martha and says, this comes 551 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.279 from Mr. Saxon, you're not safe, et cetera, et cetera. 552 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.920 I thought, oh, you know, we could have seen him, but then I 553 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:55.920 thought, well, hold on, if we see him, if we see John Sim now. 554 00:26:55.980 --> 00:27:01.019 When we see John Sim at the end of Utopia, we know he's Mr. Saxon 555 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:02.460 before the doctor does. 556 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:08.940 And before he knows he's Mr. Saxon, which means the pre-titled 557 00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:12.359 cliffhanger of the sound of drums isn't a reveal. 558 00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:13.859 Uh, so what? 559 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:14.400 Yeah. 560 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.759 Yeah. 561 00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:19.500 But yes, I have a feeling next week in 42 when Martha calls her 562 00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:21.059 mum that that's election day. 563 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:22.319 Yes it is. 564 00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:24.359 So I think where the day before election day. 565 00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:27.779 Elections happen on the weekend in the UK, don't they, Colin? 566 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.619 Uh, no, they happen on Thursdays and then you kind of get the 567 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:33.839 results coming in on Friday and by Saturday you know. 568 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:34.980 Oh, right. 569 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:35.220 Okay. 570 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:35.819 Okay. 571 00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:39.180 That's what I'm misremembering then from my time living there. 572 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.539 So, yeah, I suppose we're on a Wednesday then. 573 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:43.980 This is a Wednesday night. 574 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:45.599 It's an eventful week. 575 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:46.799 It's an eventful week. 576 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:49.259 And Francine's meeting lots of new people. 577 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.619 So she meets the, is he called Sinister Man? 578 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:53.519 Sinister man. 579 00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.420 Creepy man. 580 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:55.799 Is that his name as well? 581 00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:57.180 Like Ollie's. 582 00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.599 Olive woman and sinister man. 583 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.119 When he was mad, Mr. M-man. 584 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:06.000 Oh, God, here comes the next big finish set. 585 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:09.660 Olive, what but it's sinister bad. 586 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.759 What does he whisper to? 587 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:13.799 What do you think he whispers to Francine? 588 00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:20.460 I wonder if it's this man was involved in the Battle of Canary 589 00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:21.119 Wharf. 590 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:24.480 Where her niece was killed. 591 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:26.039 That could be. 592 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:27.119 That's a really good point. 593 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:30.359 I think he just whispers something in there that... 594 00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:31.980 Yeah, that's right. 595 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:35.160 No, I think it's just something that Stephen Greenhorn didn't want 596 00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:35.460 to ride. 597 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.319 I don't know, something. 598 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:38.519 Whisper whisper. 599 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:41.519 But it does mean that we get the doctor's face slapped, which is 600 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.740 quite good, and it is a bit more satisfying when it's David 601 00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.019 Tennant than when it's Christopher Eckleston, I think. 602 00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:46.799 Yeah, yeah. 603 00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:51.900 It's kind of like the tenant sort of resigned reaction. is 604 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.720 actually better than Eccleston whinging about. 605 00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.920 And with mothers, all these mothers. 606 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:10.140 What do we think of Freema in that? 607 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.119 And how Martha's developed. 608 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:16.319 We've expressed reservations already about just this whole plot 609 00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:21.119 and how kind of horrible the doctor seems to her. 610 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:27.119 You know, he's kind of showboating and stuff for the 1st and 2nd 611 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:28.680 episodes of the trip. 612 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:34.380 And then she kind of makes him sit down and talk to her properly. 613 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:38.220 And that's kind of the 1st time that he expresses any concern for 614 00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:38.519 her. 615 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:42.539 And I think that, you know, they kind of put that on hold, I think 616 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:43.980 for the Dalek 2 parter a bit. 617 00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:47.220 They decide they're not really going to deal with that here 618 00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:51.660 because there's lots of, you know, squid heads and zombies and 619 00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:53.339 stuff to worry about. 620 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:55.140 So we come sort of back to it. 621 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.380 And I think that that seems really kind of awkward. 622 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:01.920 And I think the doctor's super unlikeable in it, like at the very 623 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:02.220 beginning. 624 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:07.799 Yeah, I mean, something I got out of it watching it, uh, again 625 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:13.200 this time was when she's saying in the title saying, where are 626 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:13.380 we? 627 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:13.859 Where are we? 628 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:18.420 It is obvious that he is talking about home. you know, no place 629 00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:18.900 like it. 630 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.200 And I just kind of look at it going, Martha, why are you so 631 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:22.740 surprised? 632 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:29.039 But I realise she could interpret it as he is taking me to his 633 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.319 home because she's asked for that already. 634 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.460 And he said why that would be deeply personal and deeply painful 635 00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:35.940 to him. 636 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.640 But then they have this adventure with the Daleks, who are old 637 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:42.000 enemies of his, and it kind of ends with her saying, oh, you know 638 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.420 yeah, one got away, but, you know, whatever, and trying to perk 639 00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:45.779 him up. 640 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.220 So immediately afterwards. 641 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:51.240 Oh, we've gone, we've gone to his home and then steps out and oh 642 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:55.079 and now he's leaving me and tenant place is seen like he just 643 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:58.680 wants to say to her, get in and let's go to the Eye of Orion or 644 00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:01.500 whatever, you know, you're my mate, let's have fun, but he's still 645 00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:06.779 wounded and oh, no, I don't, I can't, I can't get attached again. 646 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.259 He is he is nice to her at the end. 647 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:11.640 Do you know what I mean? 648 00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:12.900 Like it looked for a second. 649 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.319 Like he was just kind of going to dump her, but he really does 650 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:20.220 express some warmth and gratitude and things towards her. 651 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:24.960 And so had he left, like she would have been disappointed and 652 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:31.259 crushed, but he wasn't kind of dismissive of her. 653 00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:31.859 No, no. 654 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.220 And, you know, he's, he, he acknowledged how important she's 655 00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:35.519 been. 656 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.119 Look, I, I just think it's, she's just embarrassed because she's 657 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:43.140 left, the Nick is drying on the place when they get home, uh, and 658 00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:44.700 it makes it hugely awkward. 659 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:46.799 I love the way it's been done. 660 00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:50.400 I mean, to repeat everything that had been done with Rose 661 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.400 obviously would have been wrong, but this is, you know, this is 662 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.339 him on the rebound and I think even earlier in the season, she 663 00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:57.720 references that. 664 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:02.099 Um, and she's pretty much the doctor's kind of therapist. 665 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.559 You know, when you've, you know, when you fancy someone and 666 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.259 they're perhaps in the friend zone and you're just, you know, and 667 00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:10.619 they're going through a breakup and you, and you're like, um, I'm 668 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:14.519 here, you become their therapist and it's like, I don't want to be 669 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:15.480 their therapist anymore. 670 00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:16.559 It's just too draining. 671 00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:18.539 And so there's a, there's a bit of relief. 672 00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:22.559 Perhaps from that where she's like saying, look, if we're going to 673 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.859 do this again, I'm in and you've got to make sure I'm in 674 00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:26.339 properly. 675 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:26.759 Yeah. 676 00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:31.500 And I can't really gauge whether or not he really thinks that or 677 00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.079 he's just like, oh, okay, I've got nothing better to do. 678 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:36.779 But I just like the way it's different and I like the way at the 679 00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:40.980 end she self-selects out. and she gets to come back in a brilliant 680 00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:41.579 brilliant way. 681 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.940 It's a companion that's treated with a ton of thought and respect 682 00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:48.000 and isn't like, you know, horribly murdered and then brought back 683 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.940 to life at the end and then comes back in a dream sequence and 684 00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:51.420 whatever. 685 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.160 Yeah, do it really well. 686 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:55.259 And Freeman's just spectacular. 687 00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.619 I've always had just such a soft spot for her. 688 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.960 She's she's a terrific actor. 689 00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:04.319 In lots and lots of things, uh, and her career is really taking 690 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:04.740 off now. 691 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.859 I can't believe she's 40 and looks the same. 692 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.259 She's just doing brilliantly. 693 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.220 And so, you know, even though I would have liked to have seen more 694 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:15.960 of her own, I would love her to come back somehow. 695 00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:21.240 It would be, uh, you know, they've done it the right way. 696 00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:26.039 I think there's a real difficulty with, you know, the way that 697 00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.220 they portrayed the doctor's relationship with Rose. 698 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.579 They have to be careful not to have him just sort of, and here's 699 00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:33.119 the next one. 700 00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:38.339 And so taking about half a season to kind of circle around that 701 00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:41.940 before she actually boards. 702 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:46.680 And the doctor is very nice, that final line, you know, as they're 703 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.200 getting into the TARDIS at the end of the episode where he says, oh 704 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:51.420 you were never really a passenger anyway. 705 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.500 And then over the next couple of weeks, you know, we'll get the 706 00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:57.119 phone, we'll get the TARDIS key. 707 00:33:57.180 --> 00:34:00.240 They very definitely just say, nope, she's here. 708 00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:02.940 She's the companion from here on in. 709 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.400 And so I think I think you're probably right. 710 00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:09.659 I can't see how else they could have reasonably done it without 711 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:12.000 making the doctor seem super callous. 712 00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:12.659 Yeah. 713 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:17.519 Yeah, it's, it is a gradual thing and I think it contributes 714 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:21.780 slightly to some of the negative reputation of the character in 715 00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:25.800 that because of all that, we don't get to deal with the crush on 716 00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:27.719 the doctor until towards the end of the season. 717 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:30.239 Yeah, which is unfortunate. 718 00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:35.579 But for her part, I don't think Freema sets a foot wrong in her 719 00:34:35.579 --> 00:34:36.239 performance. 720 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:40.860 And there's one particular thing she does that I love. 721 00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:46.800 And I've mentioned before that, unlike Billy Piper, who has a 722 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.019 hugely expressive face. 723 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.079 Frem is a lot more reserved in the facial expressions, but 724 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:57.539 everything goes into the voice, you know, her voice is incredibly 725 00:34:57.539 --> 00:34:58.440 variegrated. 726 00:34:58.500 --> 00:35:04.079 But the one facial expression she has, which I adore is when she 727 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.019 sees something that surprises her and her eyes just seem to double 728 00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:08.219 in size. 729 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:12.300 So this episode, it's when she sees Lady Thor's desiccated foot 730 00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:15.900 sitting behind the desk in Smith and Jones. 731 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.440 It's when the Jadoon has given her the compensation paperwork. 732 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:24.300 I may put a mega cut together of this on Twitter to go out with 733 00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:25.079 this episode. 734 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:27.960 Just all the time she's done, because I'm pretty sure she gets to 735 00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.039 do it like once per episode and she sort of one eyebrow goes up 736 00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.280 the eyes flare, sort of one corner of the mouth goes up and 737 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:36.360 doesn't like a, huh? 738 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.260 You should see if she does it insensate and new Amsterdam as well 739 00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:42.119 and then put that into the super edit. 740 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.699 Well, I've seen the 1st episode of Sensei, and I'll tell you what 741 00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:46.440 there's a couple of things I don't think I don't think my mother 742 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:48.659 would appreciate me putting up on Twitter, to be honest. 743 00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:52.559 But I have to say her 2nd scene in Sense 8 is a hell of an 744 00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:52.920 entrance. 745 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:54.300 It's good. 746 00:35:57.659 --> 00:36:03.420 Yeah, I think any problems with Martha as a character are down to 747 00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:08.519 the pacing of the arc rather than her performance or even David's 748 00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:08.940 performance. 749 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.380 He's good in that. 750 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:11.039 Yeah. 751 00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:14.400 Sorry, when I say even David's performance, I mean, they're sort 752 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:18.420 of rapport together because, look, I'm sure all of our listeners 753 00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:25.380 have heard rumours about perhaps Freema and David didn't get on so 754 00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:27.599 well, but I can see no evidence of that. 755 00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:30.059 Even in behind the scenes stuff. 756 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.199 I had not heard that. 757 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:33.900 I mean, these are just things I've heard online and through 758 00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:35.099 grapevines and whatnot. 759 00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:39.360 And if that is the case, they are 2 of the most professional 760 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.960 actors I have ever seen because there is a genuine warmth between 761 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:43.440 them. 762 00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:47.460 And of course, you know, Martha has her crush, her affection for 763 00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:48.239 the doctor. 764 00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:52.019 But Tennant brilliantly plays that he likes this person, but 765 00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:55.019 doesn't want to get in. 766 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:56.460 Okay, come on, come on. 767 00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:57.360 Adventure time. 768 00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:05.880 I'd like to have a word about tropes in this episode. 769 00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:06.599 Really? 770 00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:07.260 Yes. 771 00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:08.039 For want of a better word. 772 00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:09.119 For want of a better word. 773 00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:10.679 Simon's not here to hear me. 774 00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:14.340 So at 8 minutes 30. 775 00:37:14.699 --> 00:37:18.599 We have an unspecified overload Claxon is what I've written here. 776 00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:21.480 Because the machine goes wrong and the doctor just shouts, it's 777 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:21.900 overloading. 778 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:25.019 I absolutely adore that thing, can I say? 779 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:26.340 It's so good. 780 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:29.460 All of those people sort of standing around in sort of lovely 781 00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:33.539 suits with canapes and things and they sort of... let's talk about 782 00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:36.900 the fact that we have our mad scientist episode. 783 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.599 There's no aliens here apart from Mr. Saxon. 784 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:40.380 Yeah. 785 00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:44.460 Russell's forward brief to Stephen Greenhorn, who thought he was 786 00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:46.679 being called in for an interview, right? 787 00:37:46.739 --> 00:37:49.619 But he was called in Russell basically said, You writing us a 788 00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:49.980 script. 789 00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:51.659 Mad scientist, modern day. 790 00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:55.440 Go. It's so good. 791 00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:58.860 And just the scale of it seems to be perfectly right. 792 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.280 Maybe I've said that before this episode, but there seems to be 793 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:07.559 just the right amount of material for a 45 minute episode. 794 00:38:07.619 --> 00:38:09.659 Yeah I'd agree with that. 795 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:11.099 It's very simple. 796 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:12.659 I mean, it's very straightforward. 797 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.400 There's no twists or anything like that. 798 00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:16.860 It is just the monster rampages. 799 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:20.880 I guess the only twist, which is beautifully lampshaded. is 800 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:27.059 Lazarus surviving and reviving in the ambulance and killing the 2 801 00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:28.079 ambulance people. 802 00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:31.380 And then the doctor says that he should have realised that someone 803 00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:37.019 called Lazarus was going to rise from the dead. which is just 804 00:38:37.019 --> 00:38:37.559 awesome. 805 00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:38.400 Yeah. 806 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:40.679 Doctor Who and the massive giveaway, yeah. 807 00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:43.800 Fendleman. 808 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:45.300 Lazarus. 809 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.659 Yeah. 810 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.699 Tony Dalek agent. 811 00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:53.099 It's really, like, I think that that's really good, and the scale 812 00:38:53.099 --> 00:38:56.460 of it is great, that it's just happening in 2 buildings in Suffolk 813 00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:58.619 not very far away from one another. 814 00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.460 And the 2 locations are both really great, I think. 815 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:04.440 Yes, yeah, it looks wonderful. 816 00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:07.920 In terms of scale, however, I would like to point out that several 817 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:12.780 of the monitors that are displaying the sort of rotating Lazarus 818 00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:16.440 symbol or whatever it is, are the completely the wrong aspect 819 00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:16.980 ratio. 820 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:18.059 It's meant to be a circle. 821 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:22.079 Oh, I hate those people who can't get their anamorphic ratios 822 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:22.260 right? 823 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.699 They don't deserve televisions. 824 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.179 There seems to be a Windows start bar at the bottom of some of the 825 00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:27.480 screens. 826 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:34.440 Have you guys seen Prometheus, like a like a $100000000 movie, and 827 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:35.340 on the spaceship? 828 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:40.860 It has it has a Windows task bar in the year 2200 or something as 829 00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:41.039 well. 830 00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:43.739 It's just proves that Microsoft is here forever, guys. 831 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.440 I see you are being impregnated by an alien. 832 00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.699 Would you like to restart? 833 00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:51.420 That symbol. 834 00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:54.420 There's a scene where all these sort of panicky silhouettes of 835 00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:57.360 party goers are running past a sort of symbol on the wall. 836 00:39:57.420 --> 00:40:00.179 That symbols the symbol on the master's ring. 837 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.840 Yes, because he ends up using Lazarus' research. 838 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.920 And he's done what the silence do in that he has co-opted 839 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:09.179 Lazarus's research. 840 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:13.019 So there is a little bit of dialogue in the sound of drums, isn't 841 00:40:13.019 --> 00:40:16.079 there that sort of justifies why he was behind the Lazarus 842 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:16.559 experiment. 843 00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:17.639 Yeah, yeah. 844 00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.579 And the nice thing is it's never kind of referred to in dialogue. 845 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:22.019 Oh, yes, I recognise that symbol. 846 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.679 That was on the wall in this technological advancement and 847 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:27.000 research institute. 848 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.099 Gareth, isn't it? 849 00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:38.760 And then we have an attempted trope with shoving the doctor and 850 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:42.599 Martha into the cabinet of Dr. Lazarus. 851 00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.260 And that to me feels like something that's meant to be sort of 852 00:40:46.260 --> 00:40:47.820 screwball comedy and funny. 853 00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:53.039 And it's just mostly very unfunny except for one line from Freebow 854 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:54.659 that line of, well, in your own time. 855 00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.780 Oh, isn't there something where isn't there something where he has 856 00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:00.780 to kind of lower himself to the ground? 857 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:03.179 Yeah, and that would carry on moment. 858 00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:04.500 Yeah, yeah, that's it. 859 00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:06.179 Instead of while you're down there moment. 860 00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:08.579 I interpreted it as carry on, right? 861 00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:09.599 Oh, yeah, yeah. 862 00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:11.159 I mean, the thing is it's carry on. 863 00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:12.960 But it's carry on England. 864 00:41:13.019 --> 00:41:14.219 It's not carry on spying. 865 00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:17.699 It's not even carry on Columbus. 866 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.940 I love the way we've got 2 attempted tropes now. 867 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:36.059 There is some pretty ropey kind of rooftop shots. 868 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.460 Yes, and I figured out what it was this time. 869 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.420 The motion, the motion of the camera and the motion of the CG mat 870 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:43.739 of the skyline. 871 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.119 Don't quite match up. 872 00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:46.920 I think it's much worse than that. 873 00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:47.639 Really? 874 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:48.900 It just doesn't convince for a second. 875 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.059 Yeah, no, it's super terrible. 876 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.219 It's sort of underworld, level terrible. 877 00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:58.079 And we did comment on it a little bit in the Daleks in Manhattan. 878 00:41:58.139 --> 00:41:59.639 Oh yeah, that episodes. 879 00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:04.079 But, but, you know, those were ambitious, I think. and the episode 880 00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.780 would have been much much poorer without them. 881 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:11.039 Here, though, it's, you know, the BBC unable to produce a sort of 882 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.159 convincing scene of people standing on a rooftop. 883 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:15.539 Which is bizarre. 884 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.260 When you've got a pretty decent 20 foot long scorpion. 885 00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:21.659 Well, pretty decent. 886 00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:22.500 Pretty decent. 887 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:26.159 They've never beaten the greatest show in the galaxy for the match 888 00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.179 shot, I don't think. 889 00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:27.960 Yeah. 890 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:29.039 The planet. 891 00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:29.460 Yeah. 892 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:30.059 True. 893 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:33.659 The thing that also gets me about this sort of technically is the 894 00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:34.860 music and the mixing. 895 00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:41.699 I just find it so in your face now, compared to the new season 11 896 00:42:41.699 --> 00:42:46.380 where it's so undertoned and so background and so atmospheric. 897 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.039 This is just blurting stuff at you. all the time. 898 00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:52.800 And I honestly found it quite hard to hear sometimes. 899 00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:57.360 Uh, so, so that, that's another technical thing that, that doesn't 900 00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.300 quite work along with the, the monster's face and along with the 901 00:43:00.300 --> 00:43:01.260 the skylines. 902 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.780 It could have just been, um, well, lots of things could be 903 00:43:03.780 --> 00:43:05.699 slightly toned down to have made it clear. 904 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.780 There is one massive loud music queue that I actually really like 905 00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:14.099 where we're focussing on Martha's reaction to the doctor leaving 906 00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:16.679 for the 1st time before the opening credits. 907 00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:18.420 Yeah, I think that's wonderful. 908 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:19.199 Yeah. 909 00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:20.219 Yeah, you're right. 910 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.039 Yeah, and there's one music moment which I found really cute at 911 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.280 the time, but this afternoon when I was rewatching the episode 912 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.380 maybe laugh and say, really? 913 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:31.079 And that's when the doctor and Martha come out of the lift and the 914 00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:33.480 string quartet at the party are playing Martha's theme. 915 00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:34.920 I actually really love that. 916 00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:35.400 Oh, really? 917 00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.559 didn't notice that. 918 00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:40.440 I saw them looking quite grumpy while they were doing it. 919 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:43.380 I was just like, this drink or that does not want to be. 920 00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:49.079 Well, but yeah, the thing is, there's a missing scene where 921 00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.260 Professor Lazarus has tried to sleaze onto all of them. 922 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.179 Oh, I see. 923 00:43:54.179 --> 00:43:56.159 That's almost certainly what happened. 924 00:43:56.219 --> 00:44:00.179 And well, the thing is, they're actually, they're actually really 925 00:44:00.179 --> 00:44:02.699 rude and they deserve to die because they're anti-ginger. 926 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:05.039 And that's the real message of this episode. 927 00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:08.880 Be nice to Gingers, or they will drain your life essence. 928 00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:40.559 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 929 00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:43.800 We'll be back next week to find out what happens when that nerdy 930 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.860 kid from Points of View gets access to Michelle Collins and a 931 00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:48.480 reasonable CGI budget. 932 00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:50.639 We'll see you then for 42. 933 00:44:50.820 --> 00:44:54.360 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 934 00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:57.179 and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com, flight 935 00:44:57.179 --> 00:45:00.420 through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 936 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.380 You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody Intoterra at 937 00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:08.639 Jodyintoterra.com, and at Jody Intoterra on Twitter, and our James 938 00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:12.059 Bond Commentary podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com, at 939 00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:15.420 bondfinger on Facebook, and at bondfingercast on Twitter. 940 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:19.440 Until next time, may you remember to eat a square meal before your 941 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:20.820 next Botox session. 942 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.099 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 943 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:23.820 Good night. 944 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:24.599 Good night. 945 00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:31.440 That was Flight 3 entirety, starring Nathan Buttleby, Brendan 946 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:32.519 Jones, and Colin Neal. 947 00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:35.460 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane 948 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:36.179 Orberg. 949 00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:39.719 This episode, some custard pies and a few harsh words, was 950 00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:43.320 recorded on the 25th of August 2019 and released on the 20th of 951 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:43.679 October. 952 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:49.260 An even more terrifying product launch than the Lazarus experiment 953 00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:53.039 was, of course, the launch of the original iPhone, during which 954 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:57.539 Steve Jobs unhinged his entire jaw, and ate three lead programmers 955 00:45:57.539 --> 00:45:59.820 and a terrified David Pogue. 956 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:01.920 There we go. 957 00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:03.000 Okay. 958 00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:04.199 What do we need to do? 959 00:46:04.739 --> 00:46:06.420 That might be it. 960 00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:11.519 This can go on the tag, but everyone needs a shave. 961 00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:12.719 Oh really? 962 00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.780 Everyone has a 5 o'clock shadow. 963 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:20.280 And the only reason I can think of it is like every pretty much 964 00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:21.719 everything was shot at like 3 AM. 965 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:25.860 But yeah, tenant needs a shave. 966 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.059 Gatus needs to shave. 967 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:28.920 The only person who doesn't need a shave is Reggie Yates. 968 00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:32.039 The only guy who doesn't need a shave is Reggie Yates. very young 969 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:32.159 though. 970 00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.780 He's very young and very pretty. 971 00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:35.340 Did I mention he's pretty? 972 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:36.000 You might have. 973 00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:40.320 He's very pretty All right. 974 00:46:40.380 --> 00:46:41.280 Well, I think that might be it. 975 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:42.360 You think? 976 00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:43.199 Yeah. 977 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.860 God, the Scorpion King thing is so shit. 978 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:51.900 As in in the movie, the Scorpion King. 979 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:54.780 Yeah, it's really bad. it's the denouement of the movie. 980 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:59.400 There was a video, there was some, there was a YouTube channel, you 981 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:06.599 know, where some effects guys analyse CG effects in movies, and 982 00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.059 they actually set themselves the task of making that better. 983 00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:12.599 And they get a, you know, less some proper footage of Dwayne 984 00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:16.619 Johnson from somewhere. and they, you know, put some flames in and 985 00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:19.260 stuff and they actually make it really good in sort of like 12 986 00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:19.679 hours. 987 00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:22.079 I mean, technology's advanced. 988 00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:27.239 I mean, there's a, the land eel from Star Trek Voyager in 1996, I 989 00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:29.280 want to say, looks better than the Scorpion King. 990 00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:31.380 Wait, the Lando from Threshold. 991 00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:33.539 No, no, from basics. 992 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.460 Oh, yeah, okay. 993 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:37.320 Nothing from threshold looks good. 994 00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:38.340 4 1996. 995 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:44.820 It's like, let's not address the fact that Tom abduct the captain 996 00:47:44.820 --> 00:47:47.699 has sex with her and they have babies against, you know, have sex 997 00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:50.400 with her while she's unconscious and transformed into another 998 00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.699 species and they have babies, which are then left behind. 999 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:59.039 At this point, I'm contractually obliged to ask on behalf of James 1000 00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.440 when are we doing the Voyager podcast? 1001 00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:06.420 And I'm contractually obliged because Richard is not here to say 1002 00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:07.260 tag. 1003 00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:10.739 Brilliant. 1004 00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:12.239 I reckon that's attacked. 1005 00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:14.699 Awesome.