WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:26:55 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.320 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that falls between the idea and the reality, the motion and the act. 2 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:47.579 It's quite nice here. 3 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:48.899 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:53.640 I'm Brendan, and I'm squeezing all of the orange juice out of maybe from Coronation Street. 5 00:00:53.939 --> 00:00:55.859 Hi, I'm Colin. 6 00:00:56.460 --> 00:01:06.239 Well, here at FDE, we love nothing more than a huge opening, and so here we are in Southwark at Lazarus Laboratories with a canape in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other. 7 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:13.739 Mark Gatis is about to change what it means to be human, so let's take a look at the outcome of the Lazarus experiment. 8 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:36.599 This, I think, is one that tends to sort of fall between the cracks in series three. 9 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:44.280 It's sort of wedged between the highly beloved Dalek 2 parter and the highly beloved human 2 parter. 10 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:46.140 What do you think of this one, Colin? 11 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:51.719 I think it's good, but it's not outstanding in any way. 12 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:56.400 I think it's got 3 elements to it that together, save it. 13 00:01:56.459 --> 00:02:05.519 Oh, I think there's kind of the main storyline of Lazarus being the lecturer sort of old man and sort of the ledger hive in reverse for about 10 minutes. 14 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:15.000 Um, and then you've got the, the Boris Saxon, I'm sorry, Harold Saxon, foreboding coming on, which I love. 15 00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:17.759 I loved all that season 3 buildup to the reveal. 16 00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:25.680 And I think the other part is, The Martha doctor, Martha family, doctor family relationship coming to life. 17 00:02:26.099 --> 00:02:29.819 All those 3 elements together carry the whole 45 minutes. 18 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:35.639 I think the challenge I have with it is the monster nurse is a little bit too much. 19 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:37.500 It seems to go on forever. 20 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:43.979 Um, uh, but, you know, I, I think, I think the standout piece, actually, is Mark Gatis. 21 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:45.780 He's very, very good in this. 22 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:48.120 So, um, I like it. 23 00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:50.460 I think he's really good, isn't he? 24 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.520 The old man acting that he does at the beginning is spectacular. 25 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:55.800 It's sensational and the prosthetics. 26 00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:57.300 Yeah, yeah. 27 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.539 Part of part of the reason why he was chosen for the part. 28 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:07.319 Russell had wanted to cast him as something since the series started, but didn't want it to just be a cameo role. 29 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:12.599 He really wanted to give Mark a good dramatic role to sink his teeth into. 30 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:23.580 And part of the reason he got this role. was, in fact, his work on League of Gentlemen because they knew he'd be able to handle the prosthetics and act through them. 31 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:28.979 And the old man face makeup was literally recreated every day. 32 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.259 There was a new prosthetic every day. 33 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:36.479 So as well as having a new face every day and it being modelled on a bust of Mark Gatus. 34 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:42.360 They also used a bust they have of Vincent Price to add in realistic wrinkles. 35 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:43.919 Brilliant. 36 00:03:43.979 --> 00:03:46.740 And it is fantastic ageing makeup. 37 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.180 We get a lot of ageing makeup this season. 38 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.740 Yeah, so I think we've said before, it's the BBC foam machine of series 3. 39 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:55.979 Oh, I missed press on beards. 40 00:03:56.939 --> 00:04:08.460 The funny thing is, what I got watching Mark Gatus again in this, especially the scene where he's up on the roof with Tish, is I feel like I'm watching Evil Peter Davis. 41 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:12.300 That's what that's what Mark Gatis says, isn't it? 42 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:18.720 He's like, when he, on the commentary, when he comes out of the machine, it's like, 0 my god, look, I've turned into, uh, I've turned into Peter Davidson. 43 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:22.560 Well, he had played Peter Davidson in League of Gentlemen, hadn't he? 44 00:04:22.620 --> 00:04:29.699 The that lovely vet who inadvertently kills all of the, um, he's definitely doing a Peter Davidson voice for that. 45 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:32.100 Yeah, and it's the same wig. 46 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.139 It is literally the same wing. 47 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:35.459 It's a chinary, isn't it? 48 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:39.060 Yeah, yeah, Mr. Cinnery, Mr. Cinnery's wig when he's the young man. 49 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.639 That is canon that is confirmed. 50 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.040 Yeah, he is the standout for me in this episode as well. 51 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:49.199 And I do I do agree it falls short. 52 00:04:49.259 --> 00:05:00.720 I think part of the problem is, I call this episode a strange case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Fly, because it's basically Jekyll and Hyde with a bit of the fly throw now. guess so. 53 00:05:00.779 --> 00:05:01.560 Yeah, that's good. 54 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:02.459 Which is fine. 55 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:07.379 If we didn't already have a tribute to James Wales Frankenstein over the last 2 weeks. 56 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:08.879 Yeah, I guess so. 57 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:22.620 I have to say that the fact that that, like the monster stuff is sort of massively Finn, I mean, you know, we discover the monsters sort of eating people and then we have a bit of a chase around and we sort of try and blow them up and stuff like that. 58 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:31.439 Like, I am absolutely on board with that because it does give more time for those other 2 elements to breathe. 59 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:40.079 And I think that Lazarus is an interesting character and the sort of character that you might expect Gatus to play. 60 00:05:40.139 --> 00:05:52.019 I mean, the idea that he's old enough to have memories of the blitz, that we're in Southwark, not very far from Southwark Cathedral, which is where he hid, you know, he remembers experiencing the blitz. 61 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:58.680 And just all of that kind of talk about mortality and stuff, like it's not particularly deep or anything. 62 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:06.000 But it does give him the chance to act and it gives him the chance to kind of earn our sympathy in some ways. 63 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:08.339 As you say, he does it very, very well. 64 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:13.860 And I think the the sort of moral of the story, the, uh, it comes across very well. 65 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:22.139 I think the whole kind of comparing himself to the doctor and what does the doctor know about living forever and he's like, oh, believe me, it isn't that, it isn't that awesome. 66 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:35.879 Um, and also the, I think Mark Gatis describes his character a little bit as sort of, um, you know, not not a victim or anything, but sort of um, deluded or um, misguided, not necessarily evil. 67 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:38.220 But he is pretty horrific to people. 68 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:41.399 Every single person, especially the ones he trains. 69 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:52.379 Uh, but, um, You know, he, it is this kind of, when you look at it now, it's, especially creepy with Tish with uh, Lady Thor, with everyone. 70 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:56.100 It's just this horrible creepy. imagine if men could do this. 71 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.600 Well, you know, if people could do this, what the hell would the society be like? 72 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:24.120 And I think with, it reminds me a bit of the last season of Torchwood, which I still can't be bothered to watch again, but that it's the reverse of that. in the sense of what if they'd made this a bit longer in terms of what Russell normally does, you know, with big epic episodes, is you kind of see the society, how it develops as a result of this technology, and then you press the recess switch or something. 73 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:30.360 But imagine a word where if they had taken it to an extreme and made everyone younger and what would be happening. 74 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:39.660 You know, it's like his, his, his tropes are on this stuff that he's, he's done in years and years as well where he takes technology and takes it to the extreme and sort of predicts the future. 75 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:41.819 But I feel that they could have done a bit of that. 76 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:46.139 They could have had more of that, more of the machines turning out more people and what would it be like? 77 00:07:46.259 --> 00:07:52.139 But you get a good glimpse into it, into him and his sort of horrible nature and what would it be? 78 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:55.800 What would it be like if people could the age and especially horrible men like this? 79 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:59.040 I mean, is it a thing that actually happens? 80 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:05.519 So we're told, I think, that the technology is, in fact, really only going to be available to the rich. 81 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:14.040 And the idea that you have rich people kind of feeding on less fortunate people in order to sustain themselves. 82 00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:17.459 It's a fairly kind of obvious metaphor, isn't it? 83 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:28.139 But also at the same time, with technology, as we've seen with iPhones and smartphones, when they 1st came out, they were, you know, the status symbol of the rich. 84 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:34.620 And now, most people have some kind of smartphone or tablet. 85 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:40.740 You know, it may not be every member of the family has one, but the technology becomes cheaper. 86 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:57.720 And I think if Russell had looked forward with that, as you're suggesting, Colin, we could have looked into, you know, the rich people, they go in once they come out, it's done, but for the poorer people, there's a model where they have to keep going back once a year and that could be the sting in the tale of the story of, no, they don't. 87 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.299 You don't have, they don't have to. 88 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.340 It's just that is how the machine's set up. 89 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.860 You know, Van Staten 2 years ago. 90 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.860 Why sell one cure when I can sell a 1000 palliatives? 91 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:14.220 But yeah, that's not the story that Stephen Greenhorn and Russell want to tell. 92 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:17.879 They want to tell the story about a scorpion monster draining people at a cocktail party. 93 00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:20.759 So what do we think of the scorpion monster? 94 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:22.320 I was just going to ask. 95 00:09:22.379 --> 00:09:26.759 I think the body's all right. but the face is just wrong. 96 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:29.220 Why doesn't it have Mark Gatis's face? 97 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:30.659 wouldn't that have been so great? 98 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:31.860 The funny. 99 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:34.320 Yeah, the funny thing is, it's got a face, which isn't Mark Gatus. 100 00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:36.179 Yeah, it's Matt. 101 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.580 Obviously, that's what they mean to do. 102 00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:39.659 Davidson's face on it. 103 00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:42.899 Coming out of the Starfield, yeah. 104 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:55.500 Look, when I rewatched this this week, The 1st time you really get a good look at the monster when it's chasing the doctor down the corridor and goes up on the roof and things, I thought this is really impressive. 105 00:09:55.559 --> 00:10:05.039 And the thing it reminded me of was the Scorpion King in the Mummy Returns, which was about 5 years before this and looks dreadful, which for a feature film. 106 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.539 And to get something that looks better than that, aside from the face. 107 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:12.360 And that's the thing, the face doesn't look bad to me. 108 00:10:12.419 --> 00:10:14.580 It just doesn't look like who it's meant to look like. 109 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:16.980 It should absolutely look like Mark Gatis. 110 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:18.000 It's Edmund Warwick. 111 00:10:18.059 --> 00:10:19.860 That's it. 112 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:27.960 But like the whole thing of it being like made out of, you know, a ribcage and stuff like that. 113 00:10:28.019 --> 00:10:31.080 Like he's he's sort of exploded and turned inside out. 114 00:10:31.139 --> 00:10:49.139 And the sort of noises that it makes because all of the transformation really is seen off screen or you see it happening in shadows on the wall or whatever, but it's all accompanied by these sort of gross popping noises as if, you know, he's kind of bursting open and turning inside out. 115 00:10:49.200 --> 00:11:01.559 But, you know, that scene you were talking about where he is running down the corridor, and it does the trick that they do in the Krillitain thing in school reunion, where it's as if the camera didn't know that it was going to do that. 116 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:04.500 So the camera move kind of lags a bit behind. 117 00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:08.580 Yeah, you know, the thing crawling up the walls and onto the roof. 118 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:10.679 And I think that works really well. 119 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:14.220 And I think it's a surprisingly frightening monster for Doctor Who. 120 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.360 Like it, you know, it's gross in the way that the aliens grows, you know. 121 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:22.019 It's a bit like that next generation episode. 122 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:22.799 I think you know the one. 123 00:11:22.860 --> 00:11:28.139 I mean, Genesis, where they all start to de-volve into like spiders and scorpions and whatever. 124 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:32.100 But my question is, why did someone not just karate chop it, like the merka? 125 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:38.519 Why does the doctor run into a room where there are like umpteen bunts and burners? 126 00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:42.419 He can just switch on and just basically show all children how to blow up their school. 127 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:48.539 I was actually a little bit worried about that scene as a school teacher. 128 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:52.139 Did you show it in Dr. Hoopla? 129 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.899 No, but that is exactly what I was thinking of. 130 00:11:56.220 --> 00:12:00.179 You know who should have karate chopped the monster, Olive Woman? 131 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.519 Yeah, that's actually how she's credited. 132 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:03.419 Olive Woman. 133 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:04.080 No, that's her name. 134 00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:05.159 Yeah, her 1st name's Olive. 135 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:06.360 Mrs Woman. 136 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:06.779 Yeah. 137 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:09.419 So much phenomena determinism. 138 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:16.080 But yeah, I mean, in the radio time, she's credited as party guest because obviously they didn't want to spoil the joke because that joke is not in the script. 139 00:12:16.139 --> 00:12:17.100 Oh really? 140 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:20.460 The Olive Joe. It was figured out during filming, and I don't know who suggested it. 141 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:28.620 But yeah, in the script, the line is the only risk here is you causing panic, which is just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 142 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:30.659 Oh, well, sorry. 143 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:37.559 So obviously someone saw the opportunity for a joke and decided, hey, you know, let's put in a joke. 144 00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:44.639 You do know that she's going to be killed the moment she opens her mouth. you know, like they're not just paying her to do one line, are they? 145 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:45.480 Yeah. 146 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.120 She has to do some being killed acting there as well. 147 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:49.860 Don't kill me, Mr. Ghostface. 148 00:12:49.919 --> 00:13:11.279 I want to be in the sequel Another one of my disappointments in that evacuation scene is, you know, when they come down to the doors and they can't get out and Martha figures out, there must be some override in security. 149 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:15.059 First of all, freemers jump across the reception desk is very leisurely. 150 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:15.960 Yeah, yeah. 151 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:17.279 Very leisurely. 152 00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:17.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 153 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:24.240 But also, the camera then goes into the booth and it starts on this desk with a big red button in the middle. 154 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:28.620 But Martha then runs over to the wall and waves the sonic screwdriver. 155 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.179 It should be the big red button. 156 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.779 She hasn't been in Doctor Who long enough to know about the big red button. 157 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:34.559 I think. 158 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:36.000 That's the in joke. 159 00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:40.019 I mean, you have a machine like that and then it just has to have a massive red button. 160 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:46.919 And then it just, there's all these like, it looks like servers or sound mixing machines or something, they're pressing random buttons on. 161 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.980 You need that big red button, didn't there? 162 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:53.940 But what do you guys think of the doctor meeting Martha's family? 163 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.639 This is my favourite thing about the episode. 164 00:13:56.700 --> 00:13:57.360 I think. 165 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:07.740 And we've talked before about, you know, just kind of wondering how Doctor Who can even go on now that Camille Kajuri's not in it. 166 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:20.820 And, you know, in previous years, we had sort of seen the family basically sort of every 3 episodes or whatever, we'd seen them sort of fairly frequently, and we haven't. 167 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:21.600 It's been a while. 168 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:33.299 In fact, we'll go back and talk about this later, but this is her 1st time back. after her kind of one trip, which kind of spirals out of control. 169 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.240 So we must make sure that we talk about what we think about that. 170 00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:41.519 But I loved Francine in the 1st episode. 171 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:45.960 I thought she was really terrific and it was, you know, what's Russell going to do? 172 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.600 He can't give us another sort of wonderful, loveable mother. 173 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:59.519 And so he gives us a rather sort of spiky and prickly one who is much, much more confident than Jackie and a bit more difficult than Jackie. 174 00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:00.840 And I just, I adore her. 175 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:02.159 I think she's really terrific. 176 00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:07.740 And, you know, giving her that relationship with her ex-husband and all of that sort of stuff. 177 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.440 I think just makes her so much more interesting. 178 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:20.759 And having her so central to this episode, like having a Doctor Who adventure where it's not, you know, Martha's in peril, but it's Martha's family as well. 179 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.159 So we've got Francine and she's been invited. 180 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:27.179 She's brought Leo with her and Leo's very sweet. 181 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:28.679 He's great. 182 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:32.580 I mean, I really enjoy Reggie Yates and his star was sort of on the rise here. 183 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:42.240 You know, he'd been on telly for a few years already at this point, but after this, he starts presenting documentaries and music shows and what have you, which will present a problem for this season later down the line. 184 00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:48.899 But here, we're told, even before he arrives, that him in a suit is not something that happens very often. 185 00:15:48.960 --> 00:16:07.799 And something I was keeping an eye out for because, uh, dear listener, as, um, you can you can probably trace the date we recorded this before we get to the credits because Nathan and I were at a wedding last night of, um, contributor to the podcast, Simon Moore, and there, it was a black tie function, so people were in bow ties. 186 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.539 And, you know, I know how to tie bow ties. 187 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.000 I was looking around at all the people wearing fake bow toes. 188 00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:23.100 And the doctor is wearing a proper typo tie, but Leo, of course, who is not comfortable in a suit, is wearing a pre-tied bowtie. is just a little character detail. 189 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:31.799 And also we get a subtle line from Leo, much like Martha's line a few weeks ago in the Shakespeare code of, you know, what do I do? 190 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:33.000 I'm not exactly why. 191 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:36.240 Leo seems to imply that people might mistake him for a waiter. 192 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:38.879 Oh yeah, but I mean, he's wearing a tongue as well. 193 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:40.860 But everyone else is. 194 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:44.159 Everyone's wearing tuxes and most of the other guests are white. 195 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:44.700 Right. 196 00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:45.059 You know? 197 00:16:45.120 --> 00:17:01.500 So it's just it's just a little line, but I think it's a very true thought for someone who is not in the position of going to these sorts of parties, not in the position of wearing a tox and is kind of a bit uncomfortable with that. 198 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.380 I just find Reggie Yates utterly charming. 199 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:05.880 And of course, utterly gorgeous. 200 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:15.839 The episode subverts expectations a little with him because, of course, when all hell breaks loose, he's the one who's incapacitating. 201 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:20.759 So Tish has to join in the action and Francine, as we've said is very strong. 202 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:28.019 And I do wonder with Francine, she immediately distrusts the doctor immediately. 203 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.400 He spilt her champagne. 204 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:29.700 Come on. 205 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.079 Oh, but even before that, like, you know, but yeah, true. 206 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:52.500 I mean, rude, but I'm watching it, and she has a few other lines here and there, and I get the impression that it's kind of, it's kind of a thing of because of what Clive has done to her, she's very protective of the men her daughters are getting involved with, she doesn't want them to go through what she's gone through. 207 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:55.500 And the doctor is utterly intimidated by her. 208 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.460 Yeah, yeah. 209 00:17:56.460 --> 00:17:59.279 Absolutely intimidated, like cannot cope at all. 210 00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:09.660 There's that wonderful thing where he says that he's heard so much, so much about from Martha and then he completely dries up. 211 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:16.079 It's almost like they it's basically implied that they've just had a one night stand and she's trying to get to the bottom of it. 212 00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:20.819 Yeah, and it's that comedy of errors thing where the doctor wouldn't pick up that that's what she thinks. 213 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.839 Yeah, yeah. 214 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:22.680 You know? 215 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:30.839 And it's an interesting contrast to when he meets Jackie after he brings Rose home and he tries to be as honest as he can. 216 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:36.839 He's like, I employed Rose as my travelling companion, you know, and he's trying to kind of smooth it over. 217 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:39.960 Like his 1st words to Jackie are basically, sorry. 218 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:40.680 Yeah. 219 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.059 You know, it's been a year. 220 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:42.420 Sorry. 221 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:49.380 And I kind of watched this scene and where the doctor dries, he's kind of like, no, no, no. 222 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.819 The last time I said something, I got hit. 223 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.200 Yeah, well. 224 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:53.039 Yeah, well. 225 00:18:53.039 --> 00:19:03.000 And I just love that, you know, what he's trying to switch on the charm that he knows he has in this incarnation and she's just, no, I am immune, sir. 226 00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:05.220 It's wonderful, isn't it? 227 00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:08.279 I like the way it's so different. 228 00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:09.900 I like the way it's they didn't. 229 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:17.160 I mean, the whole aliens of London where it is that one year gap was such a brilliant, brilliant move. 230 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:26.640 I'm so glad they did not just not doing it again, but almost subverting it and doing the opposite of it's only been a few hours and where Martha's like, oh, my God. 231 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.619 You know, mom, I haven't seen you for ages. 232 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.339 She's like, what? 233 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.259 Okay, you know, nice to see you as well. 234 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:31.680 Yeah. 235 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.420 No, I love Martha's family. 236 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.819 I think they should have been in the season for much longer. 237 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:45.059 Certainly we will get a lot more of Francine later in the year and one little brief look at Leo, unfortunately. 238 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:52.740 But, you know, Francine is terrific in it and it is established here, just how protective. 239 00:19:52.859 --> 00:20:04.380 She is of Martha and whether that's because Clive was so horrible or whether that's what she's like or whether there's a giant skeleton scorpion thing running around. 240 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.500 She's sort of naturally protective as a result of that, who knows? 241 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.500 But she is really good. 242 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:13.500 And Russell just uses her again and again and again. 243 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:14.339 Yes, yeah. 244 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:25.019 And the great thing about Ojo Ando for we genre fans is she has gone on to play Colonel Casey in the new Thunderbirds our go TV series. 245 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:25.619 Oh, really? 246 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:26.940 Yeah, my goodness. 247 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.819 She's basically the brigadier in Thunderbirds. 248 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:30.779 Oh, awesome. 249 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.460 Yeah, she's really great. 250 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:42.539 Which, uh, I suppose, brings us to uh, Goo Goo and Bartha Raw. 251 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:43.680 MBE. 252 00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:45.000 Well, CBE. 253 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.980 Yeah, she's huge, isn't she? 254 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:47.759 She is. 255 00:20:47.819 --> 00:20:53.640 Yeah, so I think, you know, the 1st thing that I think of is Sanju Nepero. 256 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:54.240 Of course. 257 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.940 Which if we had pics of the week, it would be that. 258 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:07.859 It's the Black Mirror episode that doesn't make you hate humanity and, you know, and she's wonderful in it, like just incredibly good in it. 259 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.019 I was lucky enough to see her as Ophelia. 260 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:14.220 Oh wow. 261 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.039 Opposite Jude Law as Hamlet. 262 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:19.920 Oh, Penelope Wilton as Gertrude. 263 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.640 Gosh. 264 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:22.740 Kevin McNally is the uncle. 265 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.259 Like it was a full-blown doctor. 266 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:35.460 I mean, that show is the show that made me realise, 1st of all, Jude Law can actually act because I hadn't rated him that highly, but I think I just seen him in a bunch of similar parts, but... 267 00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:39.960 She was just amazing as Ophelia. 268 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:45.660 And at the other end of the spectrum, she's also done a film called The Cloverfield Paradox. 269 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:46.559 Was that terrible? 270 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:50.759 Well, it's a sequel to the excellent movie Cloverfield. 271 00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.680 And it's excellent. 272 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:54.839 Excellent follow-up 10 Cloverfield Lane. 273 00:21:54.900 --> 00:22:09.180 And it started life as a completely unrelated sci-fi show, which was then folded into the Cloverfield universe, very quietly taken off cinema releases and was then dropped on Netflix with no pre-publicity. 274 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:10.019 Yeah, it's terrible. 275 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.259 But again, she's amazing in it. 276 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:15.299 I think I've seen that Hamlet. 277 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:17.700 You think you saw that happened? 278 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:24.779 I remember I remember Jude Law and they did this amazing snowing indoors effect, but I don't remember much else about it. 279 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:26.339 At the Wyndham Theatre? 280 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 281 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:28.319 Well, I have seen it maybe. 282 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:29.640 We were sick together. 283 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:32.519 Yeah, it was while I was living in the UK. 284 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:37.380 A friend of mine was the set designer, so he got me tickets for the whole season, which was lovely of it. 285 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:39.240 That was an amazing set. 286 00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:40.859 Absolutely amazing design. 287 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.140 Yeah, no, she is, she is terrific in it. 288 00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:54.119 Again, someone I wish we could have coming back, doing more because she's, you know, her and Martha together would have been great companions and, you know, a sister sister relationship. 289 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:56.099 I entirely agree. 290 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:01.200 I remember at the time in 2007, I thought that's where we were going with this. 291 00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:07.259 I thought that the back half of the season would be Martha and Tish bouncing around in the Tartars. 292 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.680 We do get her back for quite a bit in the last 2 episodes. 293 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:12.359 Oh, absolutely, which is wonderful. 294 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.099 She is really great. 295 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:20.759 And having the 2 of them together, having her be the one who kind of needs rescuing a little bit as well. 296 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:24.480 And she's got one hell of a career, doesn't she? 297 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:30.960 Originally, I had thought that, you know, this whole season takes place in a week that like election day. 298 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:32.940 Is election day only a few days after? 299 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:34.980 Yeah, I think it's like 3 days after this. 300 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.180 Can it possibly be, and she's got another job now with Harold Jackson? 301 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:45.359 Well, I think the implication is because Saxon is funding Lazarus. 302 00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:53.279 So the job she has with Lazarus is the same job she's on her way to in Smith and Jones because that's yesterday. 303 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:54.299 Right, right. 304 00:23:54.359 --> 00:24:00.720 And then after that dries up, the company she's working for is owned by Mr. Saxon. 305 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.940 So she just gets called into 10 Downing Street. 306 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:08.039 And the thing is, if you get if you get magically called into 10 Downing Street, you're just going to go, okay. 307 00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:12.000 And I suppose Mr. Saxon knows who she is. 308 00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:14.579 That's why she's got this job. 309 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.900 That's why she's got these jobs. 310 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.240 But it is it's an incredible career trajectory. 311 00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:27.059 I would love to go into 10 Downing Street around this time with some custard pies and a few harsh words at the moment. 312 00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:28.799 Yeah. 313 00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:41.940 I absolutely love the, the, when you see, when, you know, the end of utopia when all this stuff is revealed, spoiler alert, that it all made sense, and there was all this buildup ever since the absorbel off reading the telegraph. 314 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.460 And it all brilliantly built up. 315 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.740 And I went through this thought. 316 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.640 I was thinking yesterday. 317 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:54.119 Would it have been good to see a bit of Harold Saxon before the reveal? 318 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.039 And I think on balance? 319 00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:57.119 No, I think they got it right. 320 00:24:57.180 --> 00:25:03.299 I think I would have kind of liked, well, him to appear on TV and to have made some statements and then maybe maybe there is. 321 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:07.200 I haven't seen it rewatched the rest of the season, but I think they got it right. 322 00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:13.140 This distant power sort of that knows that the doctrine is trying to manipulate and discredit him. 323 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:17.099 Um, I think it's very, very clever, and then it's just bang at the end of the season. 324 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:20.700 Are there vote Saxon posters around yet? 325 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:21.720 When do they 1st start appearing? 326 00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:26.099 Um, there was a, there were vote Saxon posters in Smith & Jones. 327 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:34.500 But I believe the 1st one, the 1st vote Saxon poster is in Captain Jack Harkness at the end of Torchwood season one. 328 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:35.400 Wow, okay. 329 00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:41.400 Yeah, just before Jack and Tosh go back in time in the alleyway. 330 00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:43.200 There's a poster in the background. 331 00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:50.279 Yes, I'm pretty sure it was that because that was around the end of 2006. 332 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:58.559 And then in March 2007 when Smith and Jones comes on, people go, hold on, what's that poster in the back? 333 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:03.900 That poster, hold on, didn't Mr. Saxon order the tank to fire on the wet? 334 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.000 We found the ark. 335 00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:06.660 Yes. 336 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.460 And it's a really brilliant arc. 337 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:21.900 You know, it's pretty similar to Bad Wolf in that it's something that happens at the end of the season that it has an effect on everything previously, but that was all kind of a bit hand wavy and sort of a little bit made up as it goes along. 338 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:35.700 Whereas this is at the end of episode 11, the master travels back in time to sometime during season 2 and then becomes, you know, a political figure and then eventually the prime minister. 339 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.180 It is it's amazingly simple, but it's super effective. 340 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:39.900 Yeah. 341 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:50.279 And as you were saying, Colin, I was wondering myself, at the end, when Francine makes her final call to Martha and says, this comes from Mr. Saxon, you're not safe, et cetera, et cetera. 342 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:55.920 I thought, oh, you know, we could have seen him, but then I thought, well, hold on, if we see him, if we see John Sim now. 343 00:26:55.980 --> 00:27:02.460 When we see John Sim at the end of Utopia, we know he's Mr. Saxon before the doctor does. 344 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:12.359 And before he knows he's Mr. Saxon, which means the pre-titled cliffhanger of the sound of drums isn't a reveal. 345 00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:13.859 Uh, so what? 346 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:14.400 Yeah. 347 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.759 Yeah. 348 00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:21.059 But yes, I have a feeling next week in 42 when Martha calls her mum that that's election day. 349 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:22.319 Yes it is. 350 00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:24.359 So I think where the day before election day. 351 00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:27.779 Elections happen on the weekend in the UK, don't they, Colin? 352 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:33.839 Uh, no, they happen on Thursdays and then you kind of get the results coming in on Friday and by Saturday you know. 353 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:34.980 Oh, right. 354 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:35.220 Okay. 355 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:35.819 Okay. 356 00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:39.180 That's what I'm misremembering then from my time living there. 357 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.539 So, yeah, I suppose we're on a Wednesday then. 358 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:43.980 This is a Wednesday night. 359 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:45.599 It's an eventful week. 360 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:46.799 It's an eventful week. 361 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:49.259 And Francine's meeting lots of new people. 362 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.619 So she meets the, is he called Sinister Man? 363 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:53.519 Sinister man. 364 00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.420 Creepy man. 365 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:55.799 Is that his name as well? 366 00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:57.180 Like Ollie's. 367 00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.599 Olive woman and sinister man. 368 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.119 When he was mad, Mr. M-man. 369 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:06.000 Oh, God, here comes the next big finish set. 370 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:09.660 Olive, what but it's sinister bad. 371 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.759 What does he whisper to? 372 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:13.799 What do you think he whispers to Francine? 373 00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:21.119 I wonder if it's this man was involved in the Battle of Canary Wharf. 374 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:24.480 Where her niece was killed. 375 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:26.039 That could be. 376 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:27.119 That's a really good point. 377 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:30.359 I think he just whispers something in there that... 378 00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:31.980 Yeah, that's right. 379 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:35.460 No, I think it's just something that Stephen Greenhorn didn't want to ride. 380 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.319 I don't know, something. 381 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:38.519 Whisper whisper. 382 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:46.019 But it does mean that we get the doctor's face slapped, which is quite good, and it is a bit more satisfying when it's David Tennant than when it's Christopher Eckleston, I think. 383 00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:46.799 Yeah, yeah. 384 00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:54.720 It's kind of like the tenant sort of resigned reaction. is actually better than Eccleston whinging about. 385 00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.920 And with mothers, all these mothers. 386 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:10.140 What do we think of Freema in that? 387 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.119 And how Martha's developed. 388 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:21.119 We've expressed reservations already about just this whole plot and how kind of horrible the doctor seems to her. 389 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:28.680 You know, he's kind of showboating and stuff for the 1st and 2nd episodes of the trip. 390 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:34.380 And then she kind of makes him sit down and talk to her properly. 391 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:38.519 And that's kind of the 1st time that he expresses any concern for her. 392 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:43.980 And I think that, you know, they kind of put that on hold, I think, for the Dalek 2 parter a bit. 393 00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:53.339 They decide they're not really going to deal with that here because there's lots of, you know, squid heads and zombies and stuff to worry about. 394 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:55.140 So we come sort of back to it. 395 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.380 And I think that that seems really kind of awkward. 396 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:02.220 And I think the doctor's super unlikeable in it, like at the very beginning. 397 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:13.380 Yeah, I mean, something I got out of it watching it, uh, again, this time was when she's saying in the title saying, where are we? 398 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:13.859 Where are we? 399 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:18.900 It is obvious that he is talking about home. you know, no place like it. 400 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.740 And I just kind of look at it going, Martha, why are you so surprised? 401 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:31.319 But I realise she could interpret it as he is taking me to his home because she's asked for that already. 402 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.940 And he said why that would be deeply personal and deeply painful to him. 403 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:45.779 But then they have this adventure with the Daleks, who are old enemies of his, and it kind of ends with her saying, oh, you know, yeah, one got away, but, you know, whatever, and trying to perk him up. 404 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.220 So immediately afterwards. 405 00:30:47.279 --> 00:31:06.779 Oh, we've gone, we've gone to his home and then steps out and oh, and now he's leaving me and tenant place is seen like he just wants to say to her, get in and let's go to the Eye of Orion or whatever, you know, you're my mate, let's have fun, but he's still wounded and oh, no, I don't, I can't, I can't get attached again. 406 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.259 He is he is nice to her at the end. 407 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:11.640 Do you know what I mean? 408 00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:12.900 Like it looked for a second. 409 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:20.220 Like he was just kind of going to dump her, but he really does express some warmth and gratitude and things towards her. 410 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:31.259 And so had he left, like she would have been disappointed and crushed, but he wasn't kind of dismissive of her. 411 00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:31.859 No, no. 412 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.519 And, you know, he's, he, he acknowledged how important she's been. 413 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:44.700 Look, I, I just think it's, she's just embarrassed because she's left, the Nick is drying on the place when they get home, uh, and it makes it hugely awkward. 414 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:46.799 I love the way it's been done. 415 00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:57.720 I mean, to repeat everything that had been done with Rose, obviously would have been wrong, but this is, you know, this is him on the rebound and I think even earlier in the season, she references that. 416 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:02.099 Um, and she's pretty much the doctor's kind of therapist. 417 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:15.480 You know, when you've, you know, when you fancy someone and they're perhaps in the friend zone and you're just, you know, and they're going through a breakup and you, and you're like, um, I'm here, you become their therapist and it's like, I don't want to be their therapist anymore. 418 00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:16.559 It's just too draining. 419 00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:18.539 And so there's a, there's a bit of relief. 420 00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:26.339 Perhaps from that where she's like saying, look, if we're going to do this again, I'm in and you've got to make sure I'm in properly. 421 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:26.759 Yeah. 422 00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:34.079 And I can't really gauge whether or not he really thinks that or he's just like, oh, okay, I've got nothing better to do. 423 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:41.579 But I just like the way it's different and I like the way at the end she self-selects out. and she gets to come back in a brilliant, brilliant way. 424 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:51.420 It's a companion that's treated with a ton of thought and respect and isn't like, you know, horribly murdered and then brought back to life at the end and then comes back in a dream sequence and whatever. 425 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.160 Yeah, do it really well. 426 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:55.259 And Freeman's just spectacular. 427 00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.619 I've always had just such a soft spot for her. 428 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.960 She's she's a terrific actor. 429 00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:04.740 In lots and lots of things, uh, and her career is really taking off now. 430 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.859 I can't believe she's 40 and looks the same. 431 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.259 She's just doing brilliantly. 432 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:15.960 And so, you know, even though I would have liked to have seen more of her own, I would love her to come back somehow. 433 00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:21.240 It would be, uh, you know, they've done it the right way. 434 00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:29.220 I think there's a real difficulty with, you know, the way that they portrayed the doctor's relationship with Rose. 435 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:33.119 They have to be careful not to have him just sort of, and here's the next one. 436 00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:41.940 And so taking about half a season to kind of circle around that before she actually boards. 437 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:51.420 And the doctor is very nice, that final line, you know, as they're getting into the TARDIS at the end of the episode where he says, oh, you were never really a passenger anyway. 438 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:57.119 And then over the next couple of weeks, you know, we'll get the phone, we'll get the TARDIS key. 439 00:33:57.180 --> 00:34:00.240 They very definitely just say, nope, she's here. 440 00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:02.940 She's the companion from here on in. 441 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.400 And so I think I think you're probably right. 442 00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:12.000 I can't see how else they could have reasonably done it without making the doctor seem super callous. 443 00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:12.659 Yeah. 444 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:27.719 Yeah, it's, it is a gradual thing and I think it contributes slightly to some of the negative reputation of the character in that because of all that, we don't get to deal with the crush on the doctor until towards the end of the season. 445 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:30.239 Yeah, which is unfortunate. 446 00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:36.239 But for her part, I don't think Freema sets a foot wrong in her performance. 447 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:40.860 And there's one particular thing she does that I love. 448 00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:49.019 And I've mentioned before that, unlike Billy Piper, who has a hugely expressive face. 449 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:58.440 Frem is a lot more reserved in the facial expressions, but everything goes into the voice, you know, her voice is incredibly variegrated. 450 00:34:58.500 --> 00:35:08.219 But the one facial expression she has, which I adore is when she sees something that surprises her and her eyes just seem to double in size. 451 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:15.900 So this episode, it's when she sees Lady Thor's desiccated foot sitting behind the desk in Smith and Jones. 452 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.440 It's when the Jadoon has given her the compensation paperwork. 453 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:25.079 I may put a mega cut together of this on Twitter to go out with this episode. 454 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:36.360 Just all the time she's done, because I'm pretty sure she gets to do it like once per episode and she sort of one eyebrow goes up, the eyes flare, sort of one corner of the mouth goes up and doesn't like a, huh? 455 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:42.119 You should see if she does it insensate and new Amsterdam as well and then put that into the super edit. 456 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:48.659 Well, I've seen the 1st episode of Sensei, and I'll tell you what, there's a couple of things I don't think I don't think my mother would appreciate me putting up on Twitter, to be honest. 457 00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:52.920 But I have to say her 2nd scene in Sense 8 is a hell of an entrance. 458 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:54.300 It's good. 459 00:35:57.659 --> 00:36:08.940 Yeah, I think any problems with Martha as a character are down to the pacing of the arc rather than her performance or even David's performance. 460 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.380 He's good in that. 461 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:11.039 Yeah. 462 00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:27.599 Sorry, when I say even David's performance, I mean, they're sort of rapport together because, look, I'm sure all of our listeners have heard rumours about perhaps Freema and David didn't get on so well, but I can see no evidence of that. 463 00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:30.059 Even in behind the scenes stuff. 464 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.199 I had not heard that. 465 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:35.099 I mean, these are just things I've heard online and through grapevines and whatnot. 466 00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:43.440 And if that is the case, they are 2 of the most professional actors I have ever seen because there is a genuine warmth between them. 467 00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:48.239 And of course, you know, Martha has her crush, her affection for the doctor. 468 00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:55.019 But Tennant brilliantly plays that he likes this person, but doesn't want to get in. 469 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:56.460 Okay, come on, come on. 470 00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:57.360 Adventure time. 471 00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:05.880 I'd like to have a word about tropes in this episode. 472 00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:06.599 Really? 473 00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:07.260 Yes. 474 00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:08.039 For want of a better word. 475 00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:09.119 For want of a better word. 476 00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:10.679 Simon's not here to hear me. 477 00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:14.340 So at 8 minutes 30. 478 00:37:14.699 --> 00:37:18.599 We have an unspecified overload Claxon is what I've written here. 479 00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:21.900 Because the machine goes wrong and the doctor just shouts, it's overloading. 480 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:25.019 I absolutely adore that thing, can I say? 481 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:26.340 It's so good. 482 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:36.900 All of those people sort of standing around in sort of lovely suits with canapes and things and they sort of... let's talk about the fact that we have our mad scientist episode. 483 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.599 There's no aliens here apart from Mr. Saxon. 484 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:40.380 Yeah. 485 00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:46.679 Russell's forward brief to Stephen Greenhorn, who thought he was being called in for an interview, right? 486 00:37:46.739 --> 00:37:49.980 But he was called in Russell basically said, You writing us a script. 487 00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:51.659 Mad scientist, modern day. 488 00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:55.440 Go. It's so good. 489 00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:58.860 And just the scale of it seems to be perfectly right. 490 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:07.559 Maybe I've said that before this episode, but there seems to be just the right amount of material for a 45 minute episode. 491 00:38:07.619 --> 00:38:09.659 Yeah I'd agree with that. 492 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:11.099 It's very simple. 493 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:12.659 I mean, it's very straightforward. 494 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.400 There's no twists or anything like that. 495 00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:16.860 It is just the monster rampages. 496 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:28.079 I guess the only twist, which is beautifully lampshaded. is Lazarus surviving and reviving in the ambulance and killing the 2 ambulance people. 497 00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:37.559 And then the doctor says that he should have realised that someone called Lazarus was going to rise from the dead. which is just awesome. 498 00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:38.400 Yeah. 499 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:40.679 Doctor Who and the massive giveaway, yeah. 500 00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:43.800 Fendleman. 501 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:45.300 Lazarus. 502 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.659 Yeah. 503 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.699 Tony Dalek agent. 504 00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:58.619 It's really, like, I think that that's really good, and the scale of it is great, that it's just happening in 2 buildings in Suffolk, not very far away from one another. 505 00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.460 And the 2 locations are both really great, I think. 506 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:04.440 Yes, yeah, it looks wonderful. 507 00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:16.980 In terms of scale, however, I would like to point out that several of the monitors that are displaying the sort of rotating Lazarus symbol or whatever it is, are the completely the wrong aspect ratio. 508 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:18.059 It's meant to be a circle. 509 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:22.260 Oh, I hate those people who can't get their anamorphic ratios, right? 510 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.699 They don't deserve televisions. 511 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.480 There seems to be a Windows start bar at the bottom of some of the screens. 512 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:35.340 Have you guys seen Prometheus, like a like a $100000000 movie, and on the spaceship? 513 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:41.039 It has it has a Windows task bar in the year 2200 or something as well. 514 00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:43.739 It's just proves that Microsoft is here forever, guys. 515 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.440 I see you are being impregnated by an alien. 516 00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.699 Would you like to restart? 517 00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:51.420 That symbol. 518 00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:57.360 There's a scene where all these sort of panicky silhouettes of party goers are running past a sort of symbol on the wall. 519 00:39:57.420 --> 00:40:00.179 That symbols the symbol on the master's ring. 520 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.840 Yes, because he ends up using Lazarus' research. 521 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:09.179 And he's done what the silence do in that he has co-opted Lazarus's research. 522 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:16.559 So there is a little bit of dialogue in the sound of drums, isn't there that sort of justifies why he was behind the Lazarus experiment. 523 00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:17.639 Yeah, yeah. 524 00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.579 And the nice thing is it's never kind of referred to in dialogue. 525 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:22.019 Oh, yes, I recognise that symbol. 526 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.000 That was on the wall in this technological advancement and research institute. 527 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.099 Gareth, isn't it? 528 00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:42.599 And then we have an attempted trope with shoving the doctor and Martha into the cabinet of Dr. Lazarus. 529 00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:47.820 And that to me feels like something that's meant to be sort of screwball comedy and funny. 530 00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:54.659 And it's just mostly very unfunny except for one line from Freebow, that line of, well, in your own time. 531 00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:00.780 Oh, isn't there something where isn't there something where he has to kind of lower himself to the ground? 532 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:03.179 Yeah, and that would carry on moment. 533 00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:04.500 Yeah, yeah, that's it. 534 00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:06.179 Instead of while you're down there moment. 535 00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:08.579 I interpreted it as carry on, right? 536 00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:09.599 Oh, yeah, yeah. 537 00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:11.159 I mean, the thing is it's carry on. 538 00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:12.960 But it's carry on England. 539 00:41:13.019 --> 00:41:14.219 It's not carry on spying. 540 00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:17.699 It's not even carry on Columbus. 541 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.940 I love the way we've got 2 attempted tropes now. 542 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:36.059 There is some pretty ropey kind of rooftop shots. 543 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.460 Yes, and I figured out what it was this time. 544 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:43.739 The motion, the motion of the camera and the motion of the CG mat of the skyline. 545 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.119 Don't quite match up. 546 00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:46.920 I think it's much worse than that. 547 00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:47.639 Really? 548 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:48.900 It just doesn't convince for a second. 549 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.059 Yeah, no, it's super terrible. 550 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.219 It's sort of underworld, level terrible. 551 00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:58.079 And we did comment on it a little bit in the Daleks in Manhattan. 552 00:41:58.139 --> 00:41:59.639 Oh yeah, that episodes. 553 00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:06.780 But, but, you know, those were ambitious, I think. and the episode would have been much much poorer without them. 554 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:14.159 Here, though, it's, you know, the BBC unable to produce a sort of convincing scene of people standing on a rooftop. 555 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:15.539 Which is bizarre. 556 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.260 When you've got a pretty decent 20 foot long scorpion. 557 00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:21.659 Well, pretty decent. 558 00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:22.500 Pretty decent. 559 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:27.179 They've never beaten the greatest show in the galaxy for the match shot, I don't think. 560 00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:27.960 Yeah. 561 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:29.039 The planet. 562 00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:29.460 Yeah. 563 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:30.059 True. 564 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:34.860 The thing that also gets me about this sort of technically is the music and the mixing. 565 00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:46.380 I just find it so in your face now, compared to the new season 11, where it's so undertoned and so background and so atmospheric. 566 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.039 This is just blurting stuff at you. all the time. 567 00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:52.800 And I honestly found it quite hard to hear sometimes. 568 00:42:52.980 --> 00:43:01.260 Uh, so, so that, that's another technical thing that, that doesn't quite work along with the, the monster's face and along with the, the skylines. 569 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:05.699 It could have just been, um, well, lots of things could be slightly toned down to have made it clear. 570 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:16.679 There is one massive loud music queue that I actually really like where we're focussing on Martha's reaction to the doctor leaving for the 1st time before the opening credits. 571 00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:18.420 Yeah, I think that's wonderful. 572 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:19.199 Yeah. 573 00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:20.219 Yeah, you're right. 574 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:28.380 Yeah, and there's one music moment which I found really cute at the time, but this afternoon when I was rewatching the episode, maybe laugh and say, really? 575 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:33.480 And that's when the doctor and Martha come out of the lift and the string quartet at the party are playing Martha's theme. 576 00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:34.920 I actually really love that. 577 00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:35.400 Oh, really? 578 00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.559 didn't notice that. 579 00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:40.440 I saw them looking quite grumpy while they were doing it. 580 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:43.380 I was just like, this drink or that does not want to be. 581 00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:52.260 Well, but yeah, the thing is, there's a missing scene where Professor Lazarus has tried to sleaze onto all of them. 582 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.179 Oh, I see. 583 00:43:54.179 --> 00:43:56.159 That's almost certainly what happened. 584 00:43:56.219 --> 00:44:02.699 And well, the thing is, they're actually, they're actually really rude and they deserve to die because they're anti-ginger. 585 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:05.039 And that's the real message of this episode. 586 00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:08.880 Be nice to Gingers, or they will drain your life essence. 587 00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:40.559 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 588 00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:48.480 We'll be back next week to find out what happens when that nerdy kid from Points of View gets access to Michelle Collins and a reasonable CGI budget. 589 00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:50.639 We'll see you then for 42. 590 00:44:50.820 --> 00:45:00.420 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 591 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:15.420 You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody Intoterra at Jodyintoterra.com, and at Jody Intoterra on Twitter, and our James Bond Commentary podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com, at bondfinger on Facebook, and at bondfingercast on Twitter. 592 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:20.820 Until next time, may you remember to eat a square meal before your next Botox session. 593 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.099 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 594 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:23.820 Good night. 595 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:24.599 Good night. 596 00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:32.519 That was Flight 3 entirety, starring Nathan Buttleby, Brendan Jones, and Colin Neal. 597 00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:36.179 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Orberg. 598 00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:43.679 This episode, some custard pies and a few harsh words, was recorded on the 25th of August 2019 and released on the 20th of October. 599 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:59.820 An even more terrifying product launch than the Lazarus experiment was, of course, the launch of the original iPhone, during which Steve Jobs unhinged his entire jaw, and ate three lead programmers and a terrified David Pogue. 600 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:01.920 There we go. 601 00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:03.000 Okay. 602 00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:04.199 What do we need to do? 603 00:46:04.739 --> 00:46:06.420 That might be it. 604 00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:11.519 This can go on the tag, but everyone needs a shave. 605 00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:12.719 Oh really? 606 00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.780 Everyone has a 5 o'clock shadow. 607 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:21.719 And the only reason I can think of it is like every pretty much everything was shot at like 3 AM. 608 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:25.860 But yeah, tenant needs a shave. 609 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.059 Gatus needs to shave. 610 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:28.920 The only person who doesn't need a shave is Reggie Yates. 611 00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:32.159 The only guy who doesn't need a shave is Reggie Yates. very young, though. 612 00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.780 He's very young and very pretty. 613 00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:35.340 Did I mention he's pretty? 614 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:36.000 You might have. 615 00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:40.320 He's very pretty All right. 616 00:46:40.380 --> 00:46:41.280 Well, I think that might be it. 617 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:42.360 You think? 618 00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:43.199 Yeah. 619 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.860 God, the Scorpion King thing is so shit. 620 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:51.900 As in in the movie, the Scorpion King. 621 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:54.780 Yeah, it's really bad. it's the denouement of the movie. 622 00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:09.059 There was a video, there was some, there was a YouTube channel, you know, where some effects guys analyse CG effects in movies, and they actually set themselves the task of making that better. 623 00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:19.679 And they get a, you know, less some proper footage of Dwayne Johnson from somewhere. and they, you know, put some flames in and stuff and they actually make it really good in sort of like 12 hours. 624 00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:22.079 I mean, technology's advanced. 625 00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:29.280 I mean, there's a, the land eel from Star Trek Voyager in 1996, I want to say, looks better than the Scorpion King. 626 00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:31.380 Wait, the Lando from Threshold. 627 00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:33.539 No, no, from basics. 628 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.460 Oh, yeah, okay. 629 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:37.320 Nothing from threshold looks good. 630 00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:38.340 4 1996. 631 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:53.699 It's like, let's not address the fact that Tom abduct the captain has sex with her and they have babies against, you know, have sex with her while she's unconscious and transformed into another species and they have babies, which are then left behind. 632 00:47:53.880 --> 00:48:01.440 At this point, I'm contractually obliged to ask on behalf of James, when are we doing the Voyager podcast? 633 00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:07.260 And I'm contractually obliged because Richard is not here to say tag. 634 00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:10.739 Brilliant. 635 00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:12.239 I reckon that's attacked. 636 00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:14.699 Awesome.