Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast that falls between the idea and the
reality, the motion and the act.
It's quite nice here.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Brendan, and I'm squeezing all of the orange juice out of
maybe from Coronation Street.
Hi, I'm Colin.
Well, here at FDE, we love nothing more than a huge opening, and
so here we are in Southwark at Lazarus Laboratories with a canape
in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other.
Mark Gatis is about to change what it means to be human, so let's
take a look at the outcome of the Lazarus experiment.
This, I think, is one that tends to sort of fall between the
cracks in series three.
It's sort of wedged between the highly beloved Dalek 2 parter and
the highly beloved human 2 parter.
What do you think of this one, Colin?
I think it's good, but it's not outstanding in any way.
I think it's got 3 elements to it that together, save it.
Oh, I think there's kind of the main storyline of Lazarus being
the lecturer sort of old man and sort of the ledger hive in
reverse for about 10 minutes.
Um, and then you've got the, the Boris Saxon, I'm sorry, Harold
Saxon, foreboding coming on, which I love.
I loved all that season 3 buildup to the reveal.
And I think the other part is, The Martha doctor, Martha family
doctor family relationship coming to life.
All those 3 elements together carry the whole 45 minutes.
I think the challenge I have with it is the monster nurse is a
little bit too much.
It seems to go on forever.
Um, uh, but, you know, I, I think, I think the standout piece
actually, is Mark Gatis.
He's very, very good in this.
So, um, I like it.
I think he's really good, isn't he?
The old man acting that he does at the beginning is spectacular.
It's sensational and the prosthetics.
Yeah, yeah.
Part of part of the reason why he was chosen for the part.
Russell had wanted to cast him as something since the series
started, but didn't want it to just be a cameo role.
He really wanted to give Mark a good dramatic role to sink his
teeth into.
And part of the reason he got this role. was, in fact, his work on
League of Gentlemen because they knew he'd be able to handle the
prosthetics and act through them.
And the old man face makeup was literally recreated every day.
There was a new prosthetic every day.
So as well as having a new face every day and it being modelled on
a bust of Mark Gatus.
They also used a bust they have of Vincent Price to add in
realistic wrinkles.
Brilliant.
And it is fantastic ageing makeup.
We get a lot of ageing makeup this season.
Yeah, so I think we've said before, it's the BBC foam machine of
series 3.
Oh, I missed press on beards.
The funny thing is, what I got watching Mark Gatus again in this
especially the scene where he's up on the roof with Tish, is I
feel like I'm watching Evil Peter Davis.
That's what that's what Mark Gatis says, isn't it?
He's like, when he, on the commentary, when he comes out of the
machine, it's like, 0 my god, look, I've turned into, uh, I've
turned into Peter Davidson.
Well, he had played Peter Davidson in League of Gentlemen, hadn't
he?
The that lovely vet who inadvertently kills all of the, um, he's
definitely doing a Peter Davidson voice for that.
Yeah, and it's the same wig.
It is literally the same wing.
It's a chinary, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, Mr. Cinnery, Mr. Cinnery's wig when he's the young
man.
That is canon that is confirmed.
Yeah, he is the standout for me in this episode as well.
And I do I do agree it falls short.
I think part of the problem is, I call this episode a strange case
of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Fly, because it's basically Jekyll and Hyde
with a bit of the fly throw now. guess so.
Yeah, that's good.
Which is fine.
If we didn't already have a tribute to James Wales Frankenstein
over the last 2 weeks.
Yeah, I guess so.
I have to say that the fact that that, like the monster stuff is
sort of massively Finn, I mean, you know, we discover the monsters
sort of eating people and then we have a bit of a chase around and
we sort of try and blow them up and stuff like that.
Like, I am absolutely on board with that because it does give more
time for those other 2 elements to breathe.
And I think that Lazarus is an interesting character and the sort
of character that you might expect Gatus to play.
I mean, the idea that he's old enough to have memories of the
blitz, that we're in Southwark, not very far from Southwark
Cathedral, which is where he hid, you know, he remembers
experiencing the blitz.
And just all of that kind of talk about mortality and stuff, like
it's not particularly deep or anything.
But it does give him the chance to act and it gives him the chance
to kind of earn our sympathy in some ways.
As you say, he does it very, very well.
And I think the the sort of moral of the story, the, uh, it comes
across very well.
I think the whole kind of comparing himself to the doctor and what
does the doctor know about living forever and he's like, oh
believe me, it isn't that, it isn't that awesome.
Um, and also the, I think Mark Gatis describes his character a
little bit as sort of, um, you know, not not a victim or anything
but sort of um, deluded or um, misguided, not necessarily evil.
But he is pretty horrific to people.
Every single person, especially the ones he trains.
Uh, but, um, You know, he, it is this kind of, when you look at it
now, it's, especially creepy with Tish with uh, Lady Thor, with
everyone.
It's just this horrible creepy. imagine if men could do this.
Well, you know, if people could do this, what the hell would the
society be like?
And I think with, it reminds me a bit of the last season of
Torchwood, which I still can't be bothered to watch again, but
that it's the reverse of that. in the sense of what if they'd made
this a bit longer in terms of what Russell normally does, you know
with big epic episodes, is you kind of see the society, how it
develops as a result of this technology, and then you press the
recess switch or something.
But imagine a word where if they had taken it to an extreme and
made everyone younger and what would be happening.
You know, it's like his, his, his tropes are on this stuff that
he's, he's done in years and years as well where he takes
technology and takes it to the extreme and sort of predicts the
future.
But I feel that they could have done a bit of that.
They could have had more of that, more of the machines turning out
more people and what would it be like?
But you get a good glimpse into it, into him and his sort of
horrible nature and what would it be?
What would it be like if people could the age and especially
horrible men like this?
I mean, is it a thing that actually happens?
So we're told, I think, that the technology is, in fact, really
only going to be available to the rich.
And the idea that you have rich people kind of feeding on less
fortunate people in order to sustain themselves.
It's a fairly kind of obvious metaphor, isn't it?
But also at the same time, with technology, as we've seen with
iPhones and smartphones, when they 1st came out, they were, you
know, the status symbol of the rich.
And now, most people have some kind of smartphone or tablet.
You know, it may not be every member of the family has one, but
the technology becomes cheaper.
And I think if Russell had looked forward with that, as you're
suggesting, Colin, we could have looked into, you know, the rich
people, they go in once they come out, it's done, but for the
poorer people, there's a model where they have to keep going back
once a year and that could be the sting in the tale of the story
of, no, they don't.
You don't have, they don't have to.
It's just that is how the machine's set up.
You know, Van Staten 2 years ago.
Why sell one cure when I can sell a 1000 palliatives?
But yeah, that's not the story that Stephen Greenhorn and Russell
want to tell.
They want to tell the story about a scorpion monster draining
people at a cocktail party.
So what do we think of the scorpion monster?
I was just going to ask.
I think the body's all right. but the face is just wrong.
Why doesn't it have Mark Gatis's face?
wouldn't that have been so great?
The funny.
Yeah, the funny thing is, it's got a face, which isn't Mark
Gatus.
Yeah, it's Matt.
Obviously, that's what they mean to do.
Davidson's face on it.
Coming out of the Starfield, yeah.
Look, when I rewatched this this week, The 1st time you really get
a good look at the monster when it's chasing the doctor down the
corridor and goes up on the roof and things, I thought this is
really impressive.
And the thing it reminded me of was the Scorpion King in the Mummy
Returns, which was about 5 years before this and looks dreadful
which for a feature film.
And to get something that looks better than that, aside from the
face.
And that's the thing, the face doesn't look bad to me.
It just doesn't look like who it's meant to look like.
It should absolutely look like Mark Gatis.
It's Edmund Warwick.
That's it.
But like the whole thing of it being like made out of, you know, a
ribcage and stuff like that.
Like he's he's sort of exploded and turned inside out.
And the sort of noises that it makes because all of the
transformation really is seen off screen or you see it happening
in shadows on the wall or whatever, but it's all accompanied by
these sort of gross popping noises as if, you know, he's kind of
bursting open and turning inside out.
But, you know, that scene you were talking about where he is
running down the corridor, and it does the trick that they do in
the Krillitain thing in school reunion, where it's as if the
camera didn't know that it was going to do that.
So the camera move kind of lags a bit behind.
Yeah, you know, the thing crawling up the walls and onto the
roof.
And I think that works really well.
And I think it's a surprisingly frightening monster for Doctor
Who.
Like it, you know, it's gross in the way that the aliens grows, you
know.
It's a bit like that next generation episode.
I think you know the one.
I mean, Genesis, where they all start to de-volve into like
spiders and scorpions and whatever.
But my question is, why did someone not just karate chop it, like
the merka?
Why does the doctor run into a room where there are like umpteen
bunts and burners?
He can just switch on and just basically show all children how to
blow up their school.
I was actually a little bit worried about that scene as a school
teacher.
Did you show it in Dr. Hoopla?
No, but that is exactly what I was thinking of.
You know who should have karate chopped the monster, Olive Woman?
Yeah, that's actually how she's credited.
Olive Woman.
No, that's her name.
Yeah, her 1st name's Olive.
Mrs Woman.
Yeah.
So much phenomena determinism.
But yeah, I mean, in the radio time, she's credited as party guest
because obviously they didn't want to spoil the joke because that
joke is not in the script.
Oh really?
The Olive Joe. It was figured out during filming, and I don't know
who suggested it.
But yeah, in the script, the line is the only risk here is you
causing panic, which is just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, well, sorry.
So obviously someone saw the opportunity for a joke and decided
hey, you know, let's put in a joke.
You do know that she's going to be killed the moment she opens her
mouth. you know, like they're not just paying her to do one line
are they?
Yeah.
She has to do some being killed acting there as well.
Don't kill me, Mr. Ghostface.
I want to be in the sequel Another one of my disappointments in
that evacuation scene is, you know, when they come down to the
doors and they can't get out and Martha figures out, there must be
some override in security.
First of all, freemers jump across the reception desk is very
leisurely.
Yeah, yeah.
Very leisurely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But also, the camera then goes into the booth and it starts on
this desk with a big red button in the middle.
But Martha then runs over to the wall and waves the sonic
screwdriver.
It should be the big red button.
She hasn't been in Doctor Who long enough to know about the big
red button.
I think.
That's the in joke.
I mean, you have a machine like that and then it just has to have
a massive red button.
And then it just, there's all these like, it looks like servers or
sound mixing machines or something, they're pressing random
buttons on.
You need that big red button, didn't there?
But what do you guys think of the doctor meeting Martha's family?
This is my favourite thing about the episode.
I think.
And we've talked before about, you know, just kind of wondering
how Doctor Who can even go on now that Camille Kajuri's not in
it.
And, you know, in previous years, we had sort of seen the family
basically sort of every 3 episodes or whatever, we'd seen them
sort of fairly frequently, and we haven't.
It's been a while.
In fact, we'll go back and talk about this later, but this is her
1st time back. after her kind of one trip, which kind of spirals
out of control.
So we must make sure that we talk about what we think about that.
But I loved Francine in the 1st episode.
I thought she was really terrific and it was, you know, what's
Russell going to do?
He can't give us another sort of wonderful, loveable mother.
And so he gives us a rather sort of spiky and prickly one who is
much, much more confident than Jackie and a bit more difficult
than Jackie.
And I just, I adore her.
I think she's really terrific.
And, you know, giving her that relationship with her ex-husband
and all of that sort of stuff.
I think just makes her so much more interesting.
And having her so central to this episode, like having a Doctor
Who adventure where it's not, you know, Martha's in peril, but
it's Martha's family as well.
So we've got Francine and she's been invited.
She's brought Leo with her and Leo's very sweet.
He's great.
I mean, I really enjoy Reggie Yates and his star was sort of on
the rise here.
You know, he'd been on telly for a few years already at this point
but after this, he starts presenting documentaries and music shows
and what have you, which will present a problem for this season
later down the line.
But here, we're told, even before he arrives, that him in a suit
is not something that happens very often.
And something I was keeping an eye out for because, uh, dear
listener, as, um, you can you can probably trace the date we
recorded this before we get to the credits because Nathan and I
were at a wedding last night of, um, contributor to the podcast
Simon Moore, and there, it was a black tie function, so people
were in bow ties.
And, you know, I know how to tie bow ties.
I was looking around at all the people wearing fake bow toes.
And the doctor is wearing a proper typo tie, but Leo, of course
who is not comfortable in a suit, is wearing a pre-tied bowtie. is
just a little character detail.
And also we get a subtle line from Leo, much like Martha's line a
few weeks ago in the Shakespeare code of, you know, what do I do?
I'm not exactly why.
Leo seems to imply that people might mistake him for a waiter.
Oh yeah, but I mean, he's wearing a tongue as well.
But everyone else is.
Everyone's wearing tuxes and most of the other guests are white.
Right.
You know?
So it's just it's just a little line, but I think it's a very true
thought for someone who is not in the position of going to these
sorts of parties, not in the position of wearing a tox and is kind
of a bit uncomfortable with that.
I just find Reggie Yates utterly charming.
And of course, utterly gorgeous.
The episode subverts expectations a little with him because, of
course, when all hell breaks loose, he's the one who's
incapacitating.
So Tish has to join in the action and Francine, as we've said is
very strong.
And I do wonder with Francine, she immediately distrusts the
doctor immediately.
He spilt her champagne.
Come on.
Oh, but even before that, like, you know, but yeah, true.
I mean, rude, but I'm watching it, and she has a few other lines
here and there, and I get the impression that it's kind of, it's
kind of a thing of because of what Clive has done to her, she's
very protective of the men her daughters are getting involved with
she doesn't want them to go through what she's gone through.
And the doctor is utterly intimidated by her.
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely intimidated, like cannot cope at all.
There's that wonderful thing where he says that he's heard so much
so much about from Martha and then he completely dries up.
It's almost like they it's basically implied that they've just had
a one night stand and she's trying to get to the bottom of it.
Yeah, and it's that comedy of errors thing where the doctor
wouldn't pick up that that's what she thinks.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
And it's an interesting contrast to when he meets Jackie after he
brings Rose home and he tries to be as honest as he can.
He's like, I employed Rose as my travelling companion, you know
and he's trying to kind of smooth it over.
Like his 1st words to Jackie are basically, sorry.
Yeah.
You know, it's been a year.
Sorry.
And I kind of watched this scene and where the doctor dries, he's
kind of like, no, no, no.
The last time I said something, I got hit.
Yeah, well.
And I just love that, you know, what he's trying to switch on the
charm that he knows he has in this incarnation and she's just, no
I am immune, sir.
It's wonderful, isn't it?
I like the way it's so different.
I like the way it's they didn't.
I mean, the whole aliens of London where it is that one year gap
was such a brilliant, brilliant move.
I'm so glad they did not just not doing it again, but almost
subverting it and doing the opposite of it's only been a few hours
and where Martha's like, oh, my God.
You know, mom, I haven't seen you for ages.
She's like, what?
Okay, you know, nice to see you as well.
Yeah.
No, I love Martha's family.
I think they should have been in the season for much longer.
Certainly we will get a lot more of Francine later in the year and
one little brief look at Leo, unfortunately.
But, you know, Francine is terrific in it and it is established
here, just how protective.
She is of Martha and whether that's because Clive was so horrible
or whether that's what she's like or whether there's a giant
skeleton scorpion thing running around.
She's sort of naturally protective as a result of that, who
knows?
But she is really good.
And Russell just uses her again and again and again.
Yes, yeah.
And the great thing about Ojo Ando for we genre fans is she has
gone on to play Colonel Casey in the new Thunderbirds our go TV
series.
Oh, really?
Yeah, my goodness.
She's basically the brigadier in Thunderbirds.
Oh, awesome.
Yeah, she's really great.
Which, uh, I suppose, brings us to uh, Goo Goo and Bartha Raw.
MBE.
Well, CBE.
Yeah, she's huge, isn't she?
She is.
Yeah, so I think, you know, the 1st thing that I think of is Sanju
Nepero.
Of course.
Which if we had pics of the week, it would be that.
It's the Black Mirror episode that doesn't make you hate humanity
and, you know, and she's wonderful in it, like just incredibly
good in it.
I was lucky enough to see her as Ophelia.
Oh wow.
Opposite Jude Law as Hamlet.
Oh, Penelope Wilton as Gertrude.
Gosh.
Kevin McNally is the uncle.
Like it was a full-blown doctor.
I mean, that show is the show that made me realise, 1st of all
Jude Law can actually act because I hadn't rated him that highly
but I think I just seen him in a bunch of similar parts, but...
She was just amazing as Ophelia.
And at the other end of the spectrum, she's also done a film
called The Cloverfield Paradox.
Was that terrible?
Well, it's a sequel to the excellent movie Cloverfield.
And it's excellent.
Excellent follow-up 10 Cloverfield Lane.
And it started life as a completely unrelated sci-fi show, which
was then folded into the Cloverfield universe, very quietly taken
off cinema releases and was then dropped on Netflix with no pre
publicity.
Yeah, it's terrible.
But again, she's amazing in it.
I think I've seen that Hamlet.
You think you saw that happened?
I remember I remember Jude Law and they did this amazing snowing
indoors effect, but I don't remember much else about it.
At the Wyndham Theatre?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I have seen it maybe.
We were sick together.
Yeah, it was while I was living in the UK.
A friend of mine was the set designer, so he got me tickets for
the whole season, which was lovely of it.
That was an amazing set.
Absolutely amazing design.
Yeah, no, she is, she is terrific in it.
Again, someone I wish we could have coming back, doing more
because she's, you know, her and Martha together would have been
great companions and, you know, a sister sister relationship.
I entirely agree.
I remember at the time in 2007, I thought that's where we were
going with this.
I thought that the back half of the season would be Martha and
Tish bouncing around in the Tartars.
We do get her back for quite a bit in the last 2 episodes.
Oh, absolutely, which is wonderful.
She is really great.
And having the 2 of them together, having her be the one who kind
of needs rescuing a little bit as well.
And she's got one hell of a career, doesn't she?
Originally, I had thought that, you know, this whole season takes
place in a week that like election day.
Is election day only a few days after?
Yeah, I think it's like 3 days after this.
Can it possibly be, and she's got another job now with Harold
Jackson?
Well, I think the implication is because Saxon is funding
Lazarus.
So the job she has with Lazarus is the same job she's on her way
to in Smith and Jones because that's yesterday.
Right, right.
And then after that dries up, the company she's working for is
owned by Mr. Saxon.
So she just gets called into 10 Downing Street.
And the thing is, if you get if you get magically called into 10
Downing Street, you're just going to go, okay.
And I suppose Mr. Saxon knows who she is.
That's why she's got this job.
That's why she's got these jobs.
But it is it's an incredible career trajectory.
I would love to go into 10 Downing Street around this time with
some custard pies and a few harsh words at the moment.
Yeah.
I absolutely love the, the, when you see, when, you know, the end
of utopia when all this stuff is revealed, spoiler alert, that it
all made sense, and there was all this buildup ever since the
absorbel off reading the telegraph.
And it all brilliantly built up.
And I went through this thought.
I was thinking yesterday.
Would it have been good to see a bit of Harold Saxon before the
reveal?
And I think on balance?
No, I think they got it right.
I think I would have kind of liked, well, him to appear on TV and
to have made some statements and then maybe maybe there is.
I haven't seen it rewatched the rest of the season, but I think
they got it right.
This distant power sort of that knows that the doctrine is trying
to manipulate and discredit him.
Um, I think it's very, very clever, and then it's just bang at the
end of the season.
Are there vote Saxon posters around yet?
When do they 1st start appearing?
Um, there was a, there were vote Saxon posters in Smith & Jones.
But I believe the 1st one, the 1st vote Saxon poster is in Captain
Jack Harkness at the end of Torchwood season one.
Wow, okay.
Yeah, just before Jack and Tosh go back in time in the alleyway.
There's a poster in the background.
Yes, I'm pretty sure it was that because that was around the end
of 2006.
And then in March 2007 when Smith and Jones comes on, people go
hold on, what's that poster in the back?
That poster, hold on, didn't Mr. Saxon order the tank to fire on
the wet?
We found the ark.
Yes.
And it's a really brilliant arc.
You know, it's pretty similar to Bad Wolf in that it's something
that happens at the end of the season that it has an effect on
everything previously, but that was all kind of a bit hand wavy
and sort of a little bit made up as it goes along.
Whereas this is at the end of episode 11, the master travels back
in time to sometime during season 2 and then becomes, you know, a
political figure and then eventually the prime minister.
It is it's amazingly simple, but it's super effective.
Yeah.
And as you were saying, Colin, I was wondering myself, at the end
when Francine makes her final call to Martha and says, this comes
from Mr. Saxon, you're not safe, et cetera, et cetera.
I thought, oh, you know, we could have seen him, but then I
thought, well, hold on, if we see him, if we see John Sim now.
When we see John Sim at the end of Utopia, we know he's Mr. Saxon
before the doctor does.
And before he knows he's Mr. Saxon, which means the pre-titled
cliffhanger of the sound of drums isn't a reveal.
Uh, so what?
Yeah.
But yes, I have a feeling next week in 42 when Martha calls her
mum that that's election day.
Yes it is.
So I think where the day before election day.
Elections happen on the weekend in the UK, don't they, Colin?
Uh, no, they happen on Thursdays and then you kind of get the
results coming in on Friday and by Saturday you know.
Oh, right.
Okay.
That's what I'm misremembering then from my time living there.
So, yeah, I suppose we're on a Wednesday then.
This is a Wednesday night.
It's an eventful week.
And Francine's meeting lots of new people.
So she meets the, is he called Sinister Man?
Sinister man.
Creepy man.
Is that his name as well?
Like Ollie's.
Olive woman and sinister man.
When he was mad, Mr. M-man.
Oh, God, here comes the next big finish set.
Olive, what but it's sinister bad.
What does he whisper to?
What do you think he whispers to Francine?
I wonder if it's this man was involved in the Battle of Canary
Wharf.
Where her niece was killed.
That could be.
That's a really good point.
I think he just whispers something in there that...
Yeah, that's right.
No, I think it's just something that Stephen Greenhorn didn't want
to ride.
I don't know, something.
Whisper whisper.
But it does mean that we get the doctor's face slapped, which is
quite good, and it is a bit more satisfying when it's David
Tennant than when it's Christopher Eckleston, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
It's kind of like the tenant sort of resigned reaction. is
actually better than Eccleston whinging about.
And with mothers, all these mothers.
What do we think of Freema in that?
And how Martha's developed.
We've expressed reservations already about just this whole plot
and how kind of horrible the doctor seems to her.
You know, he's kind of showboating and stuff for the 1st and 2nd
episodes of the trip.
And then she kind of makes him sit down and talk to her properly.
And that's kind of the 1st time that he expresses any concern for
her.
And I think that, you know, they kind of put that on hold, I think
for the Dalek 2 parter a bit.
They decide they're not really going to deal with that here
because there's lots of, you know, squid heads and zombies and
stuff to worry about.
So we come sort of back to it.
And I think that that seems really kind of awkward.
And I think the doctor's super unlikeable in it, like at the very
beginning.
Yeah, I mean, something I got out of it watching it, uh, again
this time was when she's saying in the title saying, where are
we?
Where are we?
It is obvious that he is talking about home. you know, no place
like it.
And I just kind of look at it going, Martha, why are you so
surprised?
But I realise she could interpret it as he is taking me to his
home because she's asked for that already.
And he said why that would be deeply personal and deeply painful
to him.
But then they have this adventure with the Daleks, who are old
enemies of his, and it kind of ends with her saying, oh, you know
yeah, one got away, but, you know, whatever, and trying to perk
him up.
So immediately afterwards.
Oh, we've gone, we've gone to his home and then steps out and oh
and now he's leaving me and tenant place is seen like he just
wants to say to her, get in and let's go to the Eye of Orion or
whatever, you know, you're my mate, let's have fun, but he's still
wounded and oh, no, I don't, I can't, I can't get attached again.
He is he is nice to her at the end.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it looked for a second.
Like he was just kind of going to dump her, but he really does
express some warmth and gratitude and things towards her.
And so had he left, like she would have been disappointed and
crushed, but he wasn't kind of dismissive of her.
No, no.
And, you know, he's, he, he acknowledged how important she's
been.
Look, I, I just think it's, she's just embarrassed because she's
left, the Nick is drying on the place when they get home, uh, and
it makes it hugely awkward.
I love the way it's been done.
I mean, to repeat everything that had been done with Rose
obviously would have been wrong, but this is, you know, this is
him on the rebound and I think even earlier in the season, she
references that.
Um, and she's pretty much the doctor's kind of therapist.
You know, when you've, you know, when you fancy someone and
they're perhaps in the friend zone and you're just, you know, and
they're going through a breakup and you, and you're like, um, I'm
here, you become their therapist and it's like, I don't want to be
their therapist anymore.
It's just too draining.
And so there's a, there's a bit of relief.
Perhaps from that where she's like saying, look, if we're going to
do this again, I'm in and you've got to make sure I'm in
properly.
Yeah.
And I can't really gauge whether or not he really thinks that or
he's just like, oh, okay, I've got nothing better to do.
But I just like the way it's different and I like the way at the
end she self-selects out. and she gets to come back in a brilliant
brilliant way.
It's a companion that's treated with a ton of thought and respect
and isn't like, you know, horribly murdered and then brought back
to life at the end and then comes back in a dream sequence and
whatever.
Yeah, do it really well.
And Freeman's just spectacular.
I've always had just such a soft spot for her.
She's she's a terrific actor.
In lots and lots of things, uh, and her career is really taking
off now.
I can't believe she's 40 and looks the same.
She's just doing brilliantly.
And so, you know, even though I would have liked to have seen more
of her own, I would love her to come back somehow.
It would be, uh, you know, they've done it the right way.
I think there's a real difficulty with, you know, the way that
they portrayed the doctor's relationship with Rose.
They have to be careful not to have him just sort of, and here's
the next one.
And so taking about half a season to kind of circle around that
before she actually boards.
And the doctor is very nice, that final line, you know, as they're
getting into the TARDIS at the end of the episode where he says, oh
you were never really a passenger anyway.
And then over the next couple of weeks, you know, we'll get the
phone, we'll get the TARDIS key.
They very definitely just say, nope, she's here.
She's the companion from here on in.
And so I think I think you're probably right.
I can't see how else they could have reasonably done it without
making the doctor seem super callous.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it is a gradual thing and I think it contributes
slightly to some of the negative reputation of the character in
that because of all that, we don't get to deal with the crush on
the doctor until towards the end of the season.
Yeah, which is unfortunate.
But for her part, I don't think Freema sets a foot wrong in her
performance.
And there's one particular thing she does that I love.
And I've mentioned before that, unlike Billy Piper, who has a
hugely expressive face.
Frem is a lot more reserved in the facial expressions, but
everything goes into the voice, you know, her voice is incredibly
variegrated.
But the one facial expression she has, which I adore is when she
sees something that surprises her and her eyes just seem to double
in size.
So this episode, it's when she sees Lady Thor's desiccated foot
sitting behind the desk in Smith and Jones.
It's when the Jadoon has given her the compensation paperwork.
I may put a mega cut together of this on Twitter to go out with
this episode.
Just all the time she's done, because I'm pretty sure she gets to
do it like once per episode and she sort of one eyebrow goes up
the eyes flare, sort of one corner of the mouth goes up and
doesn't like a, huh?
You should see if she does it insensate and new Amsterdam as well
and then put that into the super edit.
Well, I've seen the 1st episode of Sensei, and I'll tell you what
there's a couple of things I don't think I don't think my mother
would appreciate me putting up on Twitter, to be honest.
But I have to say her 2nd scene in Sense 8 is a hell of an
entrance.
It's good.
Yeah, I think any problems with Martha as a character are down to
the pacing of the arc rather than her performance or even David's
performance.
He's good in that.
Yeah.
Sorry, when I say even David's performance, I mean, they're sort
of rapport together because, look, I'm sure all of our listeners
have heard rumours about perhaps Freema and David didn't get on so
well, but I can see no evidence of that.
Even in behind the scenes stuff.
I had not heard that.
I mean, these are just things I've heard online and through
grapevines and whatnot.
And if that is the case, they are 2 of the most professional
actors I have ever seen because there is a genuine warmth between
them.
And of course, you know, Martha has her crush, her affection for
the doctor.
But Tennant brilliantly plays that he likes this person, but
doesn't want to get in.
Okay, come on, come on.
Adventure time.
I'd like to have a word about tropes in this episode.
Really?
Yes.
For want of a better word.
Simon's not here to hear me.
So at 8 minutes 30.
We have an unspecified overload Claxon is what I've written here.
Because the machine goes wrong and the doctor just shouts, it's
overloading.
I absolutely adore that thing, can I say?
It's so good.
All of those people sort of standing around in sort of lovely
suits with canapes and things and they sort of... let's talk about
the fact that we have our mad scientist episode.
There's no aliens here apart from Mr. Saxon.
Yeah.
Russell's forward brief to Stephen Greenhorn, who thought he was
being called in for an interview, right?
But he was called in Russell basically said, You writing us a
script.
Mad scientist, modern day.
Go. It's so good.
And just the scale of it seems to be perfectly right.
Maybe I've said that before this episode, but there seems to be
just the right amount of material for a 45 minute episode.
Yeah I'd agree with that.
It's very simple.
I mean, it's very straightforward.
There's no twists or anything like that.
It is just the monster rampages.
I guess the only twist, which is beautifully lampshaded. is
Lazarus surviving and reviving in the ambulance and killing the 2
ambulance people.
And then the doctor says that he should have realised that someone
called Lazarus was going to rise from the dead. which is just
awesome.
Yeah.
Doctor Who and the massive giveaway, yeah.
Fendleman.
Lazarus.
Yeah.
Tony Dalek agent.
It's really, like, I think that that's really good, and the scale
of it is great, that it's just happening in 2 buildings in Suffolk
not very far away from one another.
And the 2 locations are both really great, I think.
Yes, yeah, it looks wonderful.
In terms of scale, however, I would like to point out that several
of the monitors that are displaying the sort of rotating Lazarus
symbol or whatever it is, are the completely the wrong aspect
ratio.
It's meant to be a circle.
Oh, I hate those people who can't get their anamorphic ratios
right?
They don't deserve televisions.
There seems to be a Windows start bar at the bottom of some of the
screens.
Have you guys seen Prometheus, like a like a $100000000 movie, and
on the spaceship?
It has it has a Windows task bar in the year 2200 or something as
well.
It's just proves that Microsoft is here forever, guys.
I see you are being impregnated by an alien.
Would you like to restart?
That symbol.
There's a scene where all these sort of panicky silhouettes of
party goers are running past a sort of symbol on the wall.
That symbols the symbol on the master's ring.
Yes, because he ends up using Lazarus' research.
And he's done what the silence do in that he has co-opted
Lazarus's research.
So there is a little bit of dialogue in the sound of drums, isn't
there that sort of justifies why he was behind the Lazarus
experiment.
Yeah, yeah.
And the nice thing is it's never kind of referred to in dialogue.
Oh, yes, I recognise that symbol.
That was on the wall in this technological advancement and
research institute.
Gareth, isn't it?
And then we have an attempted trope with shoving the doctor and
Martha into the cabinet of Dr. Lazarus.
And that to me feels like something that's meant to be sort of
screwball comedy and funny.
And it's just mostly very unfunny except for one line from Freebow
that line of, well, in your own time.
Oh, isn't there something where isn't there something where he has
to kind of lower himself to the ground?
Yeah, and that would carry on moment.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Instead of while you're down there moment.
I interpreted it as carry on, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, the thing is it's carry on.
But it's carry on England.
It's not carry on spying.
It's not even carry on Columbus.
I love the way we've got 2 attempted tropes now.
There is some pretty ropey kind of rooftop shots.
Yes, and I figured out what it was this time.
The motion, the motion of the camera and the motion of the CG mat
of the skyline.
Don't quite match up.
I think it's much worse than that.
Really?
It just doesn't convince for a second.
Yeah, no, it's super terrible.
It's sort of underworld, level terrible.
And we did comment on it a little bit in the Daleks in Manhattan.
Oh yeah, that episodes.
But, but, you know, those were ambitious, I think. and the episode
would have been much much poorer without them.
Here, though, it's, you know, the BBC unable to produce a sort of
convincing scene of people standing on a rooftop.
Which is bizarre.
When you've got a pretty decent 20 foot long scorpion.
Well, pretty decent.
Pretty decent.
They've never beaten the greatest show in the galaxy for the match
shot, I don't think.
Yeah.
The planet.
Yeah.
True.
The thing that also gets me about this sort of technically is the
music and the mixing.
I just find it so in your face now, compared to the new season 11
where it's so undertoned and so background and so atmospheric.
This is just blurting stuff at you. all the time.
And I honestly found it quite hard to hear sometimes.
Uh, so, so that, that's another technical thing that, that doesn't
quite work along with the, the monster's face and along with the
the skylines.
It could have just been, um, well, lots of things could be
slightly toned down to have made it clear.
There is one massive loud music queue that I actually really like
where we're focussing on Martha's reaction to the doctor leaving
for the 1st time before the opening credits.
Yeah, I think that's wonderful.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, and there's one music moment which I found really cute at
the time, but this afternoon when I was rewatching the episode
maybe laugh and say, really?
And that's when the doctor and Martha come out of the lift and the
string quartet at the party are playing Martha's theme.
I actually really love that.
Oh, really?
didn't notice that.
I saw them looking quite grumpy while they were doing it.
I was just like, this drink or that does not want to be.
Well, but yeah, the thing is, there's a missing scene where
Professor Lazarus has tried to sleaze onto all of them.
Oh, I see.
That's almost certainly what happened.
And well, the thing is, they're actually, they're actually really
rude and they deserve to die because they're anti-ginger.
And that's the real message of this episode.
Be nice to Gingers, or they will drain your life essence.
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.
We'll be back next week to find out what happens when that nerdy
kid from Points of View gets access to Michelle Collins and a
reasonable CGI budget.
We'll see you then for 42.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com, flight
through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter.
You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody Intoterra at
Jodyintoterra.com, and at Jody Intoterra on Twitter, and our James
Bond Commentary podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com, at
bondfinger on Facebook, and at bondfingercast on Twitter.
Until next time, may you remember to eat a square meal before your
next Botox session.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
That was Flight 3 entirety, starring Nathan Buttleby, Brendan
Jones, and Colin Neal.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane
Orberg.
This episode, some custard pies and a few harsh words, was
recorded on the 25th of August 2019 and released on the 20th of
October.
An even more terrifying product launch than the Lazarus experiment
was, of course, the launch of the original iPhone, during which
Steve Jobs unhinged his entire jaw, and ate three lead programmers
and a terrified David Pogue.
There we go.
Okay.
What do we need to do?
That might be it.
This can go on the tag, but everyone needs a shave.
Oh really?
Everyone has a 5 o'clock shadow.
And the only reason I can think of it is like every pretty much
everything was shot at like 3 AM.
But yeah, tenant needs a shave.
Gatus needs to shave.
The only person who doesn't need a shave is Reggie Yates.
The only guy who doesn't need a shave is Reggie Yates. very young
though.
He's very young and very pretty.
Did I mention he's pretty?
You might have.
He's very pretty All right.
Well, I think that might be it.
You think?
Yeah.
God, the Scorpion King thing is so shit.
As in in the movie, the Scorpion King.
Yeah, it's really bad. it's the denouement of the movie.
There was a video, there was some, there was a YouTube channel, you
know, where some effects guys analyse CG effects in movies, and
they actually set themselves the task of making that better.
And they get a, you know, less some proper footage of Dwayne
Johnson from somewhere. and they, you know, put some flames in and
stuff and they actually make it really good in sort of like 12
hours.
I mean, technology's advanced.
I mean, there's a, the land eel from Star Trek Voyager in 1996, I
want to say, looks better than the Scorpion King.
Wait, the Lando from Threshold.
No, no, from basics.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Nothing from threshold looks good.
4 1996.
It's like, let's not address the fact that Tom abduct the captain
has sex with her and they have babies against, you know, have sex
with her while she's unconscious and transformed into another
species and they have babies, which are then left behind.
At this point, I'm contractually obliged to ask on behalf of James
when are we doing the Voyager podcast?
And I'm contractually obliged because Richard is not here to say
tag.
Brilliant.
I reckon that's attacked.
Awesome.