WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:28:32

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast, which doesn't exist.

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It doesn't exist.

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Doesn't exist.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm still here And we are back looking at the beginning of Patrick Troughton's 3rd year as the doctor, season 6 of Doctor Who, and the last Doctor Who season in black and white.

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Also the last top 2 season with any missing episodes.

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So we're going to go into a story, which, I think has the record for missing episodes for Doctor, because it has a missing episode even before it finished filming, the dominators.

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It's kind of the one we kind of wish there were slightly more missing episodes, actually.

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I've just had it for a long time, haven't we?

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Do you know, when we were kids, Richard?

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before he was born.

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Actually, soon after he was born, but his skull probably hadn't hardened.

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An interesting distinction?

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In about 1986.

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They showed St.

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Patrick Trouton, and it was the 1st time I remembered them doing it because they used to cycle through.

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They used to show you all the poetries without the master in, and then they would show you sort of Tom Baker up until the present day, and then it would be back to sort of spearhead from space and then, you know, skipping season 8 and all of that.

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Do you remember this?

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But they showed 2 trouts, I think, in 1986.

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Protons.

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Crotons and mind robbers.

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And they're both from this season and they're both ones that we'll be discussing in the next couple of podcasts.

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Yes, and they're also both ones that my father taped on VHS.

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They were part of the VHS collection.

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I had to watch.

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Oh, so you had early experiences with them as well.

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But mysteriously, like other ones that did exist at the time, like the dominators, did that exist in full at the time?

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I believe it did.

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Yeah, I think... has existed for a long time as well.

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Yeah, that had a very early VHS omnibus release.

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Right, right.

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So the dominators mysteriously, why wouldn't they have shown it then just because it's so terrible?

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No, they wouldn't have thought like that.

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It was probably just because it was a few episodes count out.

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Yeah, because they would have the other 2 was...

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Oh, my drop.

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Oh, no, mine robbers. as well.

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Yeah.

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Mine Robin was written as 4 though. produced us for it. got an extra episode because they cut one out of this story.

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Thank God, just squeeze it.

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This is the one where it's not written by a fellow called Norman Ashley.

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It's actually Merton Hazman of Henry Lincoln, who brought us the Yeti sitting on our loos in Tutum.

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And this is the story where the writers not only begged the BBC not to show the story.

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They threatened to sue the BBC, not to show the story, because they thought it was so changed from their initial video.

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Yeah, it's not exactly because it's a whole pile of yeti droppings, but...

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Well, yeah, they were also being, what have we got here?

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We've got look, this story is really interesting for what it's about and what it's reflecting.

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To understand this story.

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I mean, we've got a peaceful planet where old blokes get around in dresses and everyone, yeah, really awful high waisted skirty dresses and the TARDIS going on holidays, so they drop Patty off onto a beach again.

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And it's a nice little holiday, but then it turns out to have been an island that's a nuclear testing ground and then a really groovy woo-woo spaceship, which is actually a jelly mould and is admitted.

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My Jack Kite's department to be of jelly.

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Yeah, it was a jelly juicer.

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Yeah, it was a jelly moult because they ran out because they were...

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BBC effects boys.

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There were only a few of them and they were having to do every single thing, you know, getting a bit cross.

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But you will use a geling mould.

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It was almost to the point of that.

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But the interior said that the ship was really gorgeous.

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Well, it's very new breeders.

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Yes, and they're spectacular.

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Well, they're they're certainly they're very bondy and they're very kubricky and they're very kind of lattice-like and there's lots going on in there, which is really useful because you can look at the sets instead of paying attention to the to the plot, which is the same scripture, you know, each and every episode just rebooted.

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So that this journey mould lands on a deserted island, which turns out to be radioactive, and their 1st act of consciousness and kindness is actually to soak up all the radiation because their ships are driven by this stuff.

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So it's not really explicit in the story, is it?

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But that's what they do.

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And then they step out as Joan and Jackie Collins because they've both got the same race that cut their juice and shoulder pads that defy description unless you know the K1 giant robot from Tom Baker's 1st story and you go, oh, okay, that's what that's.

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Can we just go back to the beginning for a 2nd?

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Because it's a season opener.

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And so they start with this spectacular, spectacular special effect sequence, which is a fleet of flying sources that look just truly terrible.

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And then the flying saucer lands with Joan and Jack.

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And jacket teeth.

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They've got jacket teeth.

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Well, in fact, one of them is the guy who just, a year later, we'll play Professor Cornish.

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And he'll be spectacularly handsome in that.

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But he's also in Inferno as, as a reader on, there's one of the voices is the, yeah, the voice of the computer.

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He's sitting around just reading stuff out.

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Yeah, and he's, and he was later on, was it crossroads or one of the soaps?

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Crossroads, he was very bad.

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Yeah, and he's got a phone still a bit dashing and super smart.

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He's actually a really clever bloke.

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Here he just looks like he's had a few really seriously late nights and he's been...

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I think Selena Nemoy approach.

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The only way you can make it through the days to be completely inebriated.

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He said that on trek. his last season, he was drunk pretty much for every shooting.

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Well, that was just working with Shad.

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Kind of the same thing.

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They've also got, yeah, they've also got Jagged teeth.

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So I think there's a nice thing that I think that's the paint that's slightly jagged teeth.

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So I think they're actually all related to what's his face off darlic master plan.

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This is the one...

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Thank you.

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And they've got 2 hearts.

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They do have to. because they're really surprised that Jamie's only got one heart. and I think the Dolchians, however, he's used to that.

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So in fact, they're probably all just like the minions.

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They're probably all seeded from the early colonial days of time mordiness.

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Because the doctor actually has been here before and thinks they're going to have a nice holiday on the beach.

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So really, maybe this is all a bit of a payback and there's more, look, I'm desperately looking for things that are more interesting than it's actually going on on this.

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No, there's stuff underneath.

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We're going give me their radiation. you know, Oh, yeah, and we're going to drill out the world's core because that's what we've might maybe done before.

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They going to try and get at the magna and a radiator.

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Have you noticed that this shop called the Dominators, and I hope that that's actually the racial prescription of these guys, and that's what they do.

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They conquer 10 galaxies, which is are not bad.

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So a lot of jelly moles.

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I quite like that they seem to be bragging because in one episode, they talk about conquering 10 galaxies and then they say they're the master of a galaxy for next episode.

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And when they say 10 galaxies, they're talking to the Dolcians and when they say one galaxy, they're talking to each other.

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So it's like, obviously, yeah, we say this to impress people.

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In the 60s galaxy, because nation is Terry Nations notorious for this, but it seems that people were not so familiar with the correct terminology.

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And galaxy and solar system were kind of interchangeable.

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Or constellation.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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It's just, which is actually an arrangement seen from here of stars in space.

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Constellation is your interpretation.

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But yeah, these boys are kind of, well, you know, one in 10, it's just a decimal point, isn't it?

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between friends?

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What is it about the dominators that is slightly interesting?

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Yeah, okay.

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There's a race of blokes.

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Do they have wives?

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They never see any women.

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And what would they be called?

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Right, go.

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Yeah, dominaterixes.

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I think the 2 of them are married over and like...

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I don't think there's any females in their room.

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No, no, they think of like a married couple, you know, they fight over things and stuff, you know, I think...

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The women are either inside their robots that will get to, but I actually think the females are their species of the dramas. that's what's going on.

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They've got dominators and drafts going, hate you.

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No, I hate you.

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I hate you.

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Well, that would be why the Dragons kill their nails.

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Yeah, they're no use at all.

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And it's...

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It's totally proven in this story.

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And you see like all bitter and incriminating divorces.

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The driver's got the crap spaceships.

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And these boys got the whizzo.

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Even the doctor says, this is terribly advanced, really quite good, and it is. really, really super duper space set thing.

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They also have robots.

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And these robots do us that were going to be the bigo wacko money making thing after the Daleks that we don't know anymore.

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That's all these bite off.

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And what are they?

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Okay, they're meant to be terribly terrifying.

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Of course, like Chungli's, they're actually little schoolboys inside robot suits so they could be small, but their voices are also like small children and a Japanese ad.

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Sheila Dunn.

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I believe in Sheila Dunn. wife of Dr. Canfield provides them.

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Wow.

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Yeah, yeah, it was, it threw a Boko dot.

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So Sheila Dunn will do, um, She'll be the receptionist next story in the, uh, story after that.

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Invasion, which she'll be Petra.

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Again, directed by Dougie.

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And she's great in Inferno.

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She's fabulous.

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So she does the voices.

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But essentially, it's a toddler bane.

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Oh, really?

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Sheila Gill.

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Yeah, I didn't have thought it was because she didn't do it.

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But anyway, these things are 4 foot.

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They're painted green, metallic.

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Well, not metallic green, some British race and green.

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It's chocophane nail to a shoot.

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It is really.

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With green macaroni on their heads.

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Christmas decorator.

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They are actually Minecraft designed Christmas decorations.

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They've got sort of, they're meant to be like a battery box and they're unbelievably powerful, but they're also largely pants.

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Why don't they keep running out of power?

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It's like, oh, we mustn't use the quiet to do anything.

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I like the way they recharge by flapping their arms.

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But they're going to run out of battery so we can't use them for anything.

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I mean, it really is just, look, however, I still signed with the invaders because the dolkians, the dolkians.

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So bloody pants.

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Old blokes in frocks saying, you know what this is about?

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Okay.

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No, it is in this one.

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It's like old folk being ineffectual. why this story is so freaking embarrassing even at the time, is really interesting.

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This is the only probably interesting thing for me about this story.

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Do you remember appeasement?

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We've talked about Neville Chamberlain in the 30s who at this time was seen as, you know, if Britain hadn't gone to war, you know, the whole Europe would have fallen.

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Yeah, but that's not how people saw it.

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At the time, it was, if we have another war, we remember the last one, it will destroy everything.

183
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Now in 1938, when Chamberlain was still organising, was it the Munich agreement?

184
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Yeah, that actually allowed British sea power to build up, if they'd gone to war a year before, when Germany was at its 1st stage of expansionism in 38, they would have lost the war, America would not have even noticed, and by 4041, Europe would have been a completely different map.

185
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So you're saying it's mocking appeasement.

186
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Well, I'm just going to get to that because at this point, we've got the same mirror with Vietnam.

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We've got the Vietnam War, and the only reason that people are opposing that, as we've discussed before, it's on the telly, you can see it.

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Now, Noman Hazman and Henry Lincoln.

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I am not stretching a boat because they've been interviewed in Dr. Himanti back in the day.

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They were actually against appeasement and they were they were for the domino effect, which you remember is the Lyndon Bay Johnson thing of if one place, if one city, one country falls to communism, the rest of the Pacific will fall, and then so shall we.

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We've had the Bay of Pigs, we've got Cuba.

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This is just going to escalate.

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These boys were actually saying, haven't you noticed that the hippies are all just drugged out and wearing a hideous, terrible clothes?

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have mismatched fibres.

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Very lubiticum.

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So the whole point of this is to say that we should actually oppose what's happening in Europe is, you know, Czechoslovakia, you know, have fallen to Russia though.

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But then after that, between the writing of this story and the stuff that we were getting on the news, this just looked really embarrassing.

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Yeah, it's a viciously right wing and it's actually Vietnam thing.

199
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And it, fortunately...

200
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Yeah, yeah, anti-Vietnam.

201
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So 1968 is the absolute hide of like anti-Vietnam.

202
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Yeah, the term offensive, we'd see.

203
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And so there's a few ways they try and twist it.

204
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Firstly, like the Dulcians are pacifists and he presents them as being completely decadent and completely worthless.

205
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Their computers are designed so they don't even have to bother to press the buttons on it.

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They just sort of wave their hands effeatly about it.

207
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The Dulcins have them, not the Dulcins.

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The dominators have the Dulcians lifting Styrofoam rocks as part of the mining effort.

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It's going to be a major effect shop, that episode.

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They're too they're too weak and ineffective to do that properly and they all sort of collapse.

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So everyone's completely decadent and worthless and everyone's wearing a dress.

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And, you know, so the idea of a society that has advanced beyond the need for war or weapons.

213
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That's sort of viciously lampooned by the writers and seen it in a completely negative light.

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But it's just done so incompetently.

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And fortunately, it's been kind of eviscerated by the script editor, which is why they pull their names off it.

216
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.940
So it doesn't end up being quite as offensive as it should be and it's just sort of nearly bad.

217
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:27.000
But it is really nasty and mean-spirited, and it undermines itself because the dominators who managed to defeat the Dulcians by using violence are villains, you know, like it just stupidly fails to work as an allegory because they're villains, but it is just it's ridiculously nasty.

218
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:35.820
How it needed to be done. was we shouldn't have had a decadent peaceful culture.

219
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:42.360
We should have had a peaceful culture and had that established for a cool episode and actually been going, yeah, you know, we want to live here.

220
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:49.559
This place looks great and then have it attacked and it should have been about the morality of you must fight for what you believe in when it's directed.

221
00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:53.100
The Daleks has that scene where Ian goes the files into fighting.

222
00:14:53.159 --> 00:15:00.539
And it is sort of slightly problematic and, you know, like it is a little bit for worry, but, you know, the style's habiting them to fight.

223
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:04.620
But the Dolcians are just awfully, horribly west.

224
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:15.480
And you know, like maybe they thought they were being funny or subversive by having the hippies be old people and the rebellious young Cully, who is young.

225
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.039
Well, he's in perfect comments.

226
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:18.000
He's 34.

227
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:19.980
So is that your one?

228
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:23.039
Well, I would say yes, you might not say that.

229
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:30.480
He, actually, Kali, who's played by Arthur Cox, will actually appear 42 years later in the 11th hour.

230
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.759
Yes, and it will be... that Amy Pond slams the doctor's tie.

231
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:36.779
Adorable.

232
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.240
And so he does come back.

233
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:40.919
Interesting sort of point there.

234
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:44.700
Note that the doctor then goes for a bow tie, which can't be slightly different.

235
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:50.220
But he's sort of the fat and balding sort of rebel without a cause, but he thinks that they should be fighting.

236
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.379
Zoe thinks they should be fighting.

237
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:53.700
Jamie thinks they should be fighting.

238
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.259
The doctor thinks they should be fighting.

239
00:15:55.320 --> 00:16:13.620
Like, in every case, the Dulcians are being portrayed as as, you know, unrealistic and ineffectual and, you know, like no match, but instead of terrible, terrible threat posed by Mr. and Mrs. Rego, the 2 evil marinators.

240
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.139
Yeah, this is the one where Patty quit, don't you?

241
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:20.700
You remember the story, the huge blowup, the huge Barney on the set.

242
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:22.559
He wasn't really coping with it.

243
00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:28.080
And this is all from Derek Sherwin, who said that, you know, all Patty did was moan, mo, moan.

244
00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:29.340
This is Sherwin.

245
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:35.100
And he said, you know, I'm quoting directly, Sherman would say, you know, he'd make complaints about scripts and dialogue.

246
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:37.500
And I'd say to him, look, Patrick, I'm an actor, you're an actor.

247
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:39.600
If I don't like dialogue, I change it, change it.

248
00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:49.379
But, um, you know, that Patrick, you know, was exhausted, and as we were saying, 40, you just didn't have the time to go through the lovely rep experience of being able to have all of that rehearsal.

249
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:59.340
Anyway, Sherman adds it got to the state where there was a huge bus stop in the studio floor and they were recording when recording stopped, which he just never did in those days.

250
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:05.339
And Patrick called out, Peter, come down here, come down here now.

251
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:08.579
There was God awful confrontation between Bryant and Trouton.

252
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:13.200
Everybody in the studio could hear it and Patrick finally said, I'm resigning, I'm going.

253
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:16.019
And Peter Bryant said, no, you're not. firing you.

254
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:17.039
And that was it.

255
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:18.599
And that was it.

256
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:19.319
That was the end.

257
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:23.099
But he said, this is enough. 42 bloody half hour shows and you're killing me.

258
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:24.720
So that was it.

259
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:31.680
And they wrote off and it's this kind of, I can get why that would have happened to this.

260
00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:38.880
Look, I think I think by the end of it, it's it becomes fairly generic and it's about stopping the dominators blowing up their bomb and all of that.

261
00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:40.079
And that's all right.

262
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:40.980
Do you know what I mean?

263
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:41.819
That's kind of okay.

264
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.579
But gee whiz, it's just long up to land.

265
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:45.660
And you know what?

266
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:50.759
It undoes a lot of the very careful work from the previous season.

267
00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:57.779
You know, in the previous season, we slowly had women's parts being built up to be much, much stronger.

268
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.819
You know, you look at Betty Kaftan compared to and Travis...

269
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:15.180
But you compare her to Anne Travers or Tanya Lern of, who are sort of shaded characters with different motivations, whereas Betty Catan, as well as she was playing, was just written as an ethnic villain.

270
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:15.720
Yeah.

271
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:16.319
You know?

272
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:18.299
And you compare that to this.

273
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.500
You've got one guest female character, Kando, who's a bit wet.

274
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.720
Which is virtually an Eloy, isn't she?

275
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:26.279
And also...

276
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.960
The Dolcians are presented as wet and defeat.

277
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.880
And what's the visual shorthand for that?

278
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.259
They're wearing dresses.

279
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.059
Yeah, and they were the hippies.

280
00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:42.599
And the hippies were, you know, we've seen them as being all cute and car culture and all the rest of it at the time they were noisome and missing the point.

281
00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:44.279
And interestingly enough.

282
00:18:44.339 --> 00:18:47.400
As soon as Zoe needs to get changed into something.

283
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:51.000
Oh, well, you need to fit in so you must wear a dress as well.

284
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:53.099
You can't be wearing those space trousers.

285
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.980
This show's not just pro-colonial.

286
00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:57.180
It's pro-imperial.

287
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:58.019
Yeah, yeah.

288
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:59.819
And it's bloody awful.

289
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:01.920
I've never said that before.

290
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.240
I mean, that's the thing.

291
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:09.480
The production offers have forgotten that, yeah, okay, they're making really, they're making Doctor Who for the kids and they're making Doctor Who for family.

292
00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.779
But one of Doctor Whose biggest audiences was and remains.

293
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:15.900
You know, late teens, early 13 students.

294
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.579
Yeah, well, not in this one.

295
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.940
I think...

296
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.019
I didn't do all that well, do that?

297
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.980
I'm not surprised because, you know, all the students watching would have gone, hold on.

298
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:27.720
They're taking the nick out of us.

299
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:29.819
Yeah, it's such a shame it's still in the archives.

300
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.500
It really is.

301
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:31.980
Oh, hang on.

302
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:33.299
I was getting around 6 million.

303
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.779
And gosh, 7.500000 for the 2nd last episode.

304
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:39.119
Really?

305
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:40.259
Yeah, people loved it.

306
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.779
Yeah, and just before we.

307
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:46.740
It does feel very trick, though, for something that came out before you...

308
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.519
It's something like that.

309
00:19:47.579 --> 00:19:50.039
It was like the savages. hang on, that was the opening.

310
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:51.539
That was the working title of this one.

311
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.180
But there were all those awful...

312
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:55.980
The same season, Trek episodes.

313
00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:02.940
It is that thing where it's where the society or the whole situation is set up to deliver a moral lesson. in the way that the savages was.

314
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.160
And it did remind me of the savages accept it's not good.

315
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:06.839
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

316
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:08.819
The savages, everyone learns that important lesson.

317
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.799
The dominators, no one learns anything.

318
00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:15.059
Pretty much the doctor spends 3 or 4 episodes trying to convince the Dolcians.

319
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.180
You must fight for yourselves and then says, oh, bloody, I'll do it myself.

320
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.680
And then buckers off.

321
00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.680
Now, can I give a Latin lesson at this point?

322
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:24.119
Because I've been longing to do this.

323
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:27.900
So the planet Dulcus, that's the word for sweet inland.

324
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.480
And so the yeah, like Dolshit in Italian.

325
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:36.599
And so the Dulcians, that's why it changes from a K's worth of C because Latin didn't have K, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

326
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:44.880
And then the leader, Cully's father, is called Senex, which just every schoolboy in the audience and schoolgirl would have known men. old man.

327
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:50.819
And then his 2nd in command who's like sort of, you know, will do anything that he's told and all of that sort of thing.

328
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.279
It's called Bovem, which means ox.

329
00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:57.779
I hope that increases your enjoyment and appreciation of this story.

330
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.119
It doesn't, but it was a valiant episode.

331
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:03.779
Doesn't Cully also have a Latin?

332
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:10.440
can we Let's let's just take off from Dolphins.

333
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:18.960
The volcano's exploding around us, so it's time to have our brains drained as if they weren't already by this piece of drain, which are mind drama.

334
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:29.819
So that starts with, like, a kind of a phrase where the volcanos going off, and the most...

335
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:31.079
Which made of fun of it.

336
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.180
We have the BBC phone machine again.

337
00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:38.880
We had seen that in 1986, but we had no idea, like what had happened or anything like that?

338
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:39.599
Exactly.

339
00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:50.759
And that's why for an Australian fan, the dominators is doubly disappointing because it has this mythic status of how did we get to this volcanic eruption by the most dull and insulting men than possible.

340
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:51.779
That's the answer.

341
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.759
Richard, the mind robber.

342
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:58.019
Mind robbers, a whole other story in the whole other set of ways.

343
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.980
Well, okay.

344
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:10.680
We'll go back to Derek Sherman, who was saying, he hand chose Peter Ling for his other writing work, Peter Ling being the writing of the story, and said, and Peter said, look, I'm Ling said, I'm not a science fiction writer.

345
00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:11.880
I've seen Doctor Who.

346
00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:12.660
That's what I do.

347
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.759
And he said, no, no, you're a good writer.

348
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:17.160
You write about fables and narrative of people.

349
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:18.180
You write about stories.

350
00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:25.920
This Doctor Who is a children's show fundamentally and foremost, and we kind of forget that now, that's how it's still being pitched in the 60s.

351
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:30.900
He said, I want you to write a story that you would write if you were writing for children.

352
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.839
And I don't think about SF.

353
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:39.660
Think about Doctor Who as the opening up of children's imagination as much as they open up a book.

354
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.640
And he took it literally.

355
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:52.980
So we went and referenced lots of other children's books and children's characters and there's lots of Edith Nesty, the children in this are, you know, I keep going back to Edith Nest, but they're the 5 kids from 5 children indeed.

356
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.900
So they end up in this space.

357
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.400
But what's the best thing about this story?

358
00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:59.339
It was written for 4 episodes and produced for 4 episodes.

359
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.680
But you don't get that.

360
00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:10.380
You get a beautiful point of an extra episode of the top of it because they cut out one of the dominators because they just couldn't add it any further.

361
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:15.420
So we got an extra story with no budget, no script, and no supporting cast.

362
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:20.039
All you've got are the 3 leagues, the TARTA set, and whatever else you can scround around.

363
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:26.400
So Sherman went home and he said in the space of 48 hours wrote it, and you can kind of believe it.

364
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.660
I wonder if George Lucas saw this before he made THX 1138.

365
00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:35.160
Because what you end up with is something that's really hoopy and post-Dovid Bowie.

366
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:38.039
You end up with a white cyclor armour on a void set.

367
00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:42.180
Isn't really something, as far as I can tell that people did back then.

368
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:43.799
It was just a pretty bold thing.

369
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:51.359
You might have got it in pop video stuff, but even then you'd have something spangly hanging that, you know, dusty could swoon around in front of.

370
00:23:51.420 --> 00:24:09.359
You haven't, this is a super white set of a super void of, in the same way that we had a universe that should have been like this with celestial toy maker, the TARDIS has to jump outside of time and space, and it's the only time in this incarnation that you see the doctor really worried about doing something like this with the TARDIS.

371
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:16.440
He's actually quite disturbed about having to flick this switch and take us out of the known universe because he knows what monsters be there.

372
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:22.440
So this is part of what eventually becomes a sort of occasional tradition, isn't it, in Doctor Who.

373
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:25.980
And it does start with a celestial toy maker, but not very auspiciously.

374
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:35.519
And you can see celestial toy maker does the sort of iconography of the children's, like of Victorian children's games and Victorian children's literature.

375
00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:43.259
It has the, you know, the king and queen playing cards from Alice in Wonderland and that sort of thing, you know.

376
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.539
So it's kind of like a rehearsal for that.

377
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.579
There's something smarter about this.

378
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:50.339
Smarter. levels in this one, yeah.

379
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.039
Yeah, and it does have a, it does have a proper plot.

380
00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:56.700
Whereas celestial toymaker was sort of clearly marking time.

381
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.700
It is, you know, really remarkably similar.

382
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.000
And I guess, like, what would you say the analogues for it were?

383
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:05.099
It doesn't really come up again in per tweet.

384
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:06.839
But greater show in the galaxy.

385
00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:07.859
Yeah, very much.

386
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.380
Which is also about fictionality and stuff.

387
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.400
There is.

388
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.160
It's great showing the Galaxy was going to say the 3 doctors.

389
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:24.960
Oh okay. when you've got the whole idea of the void universe and that William Blaikian style of there being a fictional universe beyond our universe.

390
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:38.819
It's very much remembrance of the daleks when we finally get to the master of the land of fiction, who's actually turns that up, the bloke running this realm, turns out to be an old writer who himself wrote comics based on the real person, the master.

391
00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:45.539
It's lovely to think that if message is the real master, but Paddy's reactions aren't exactly what you would expect at first.

392
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.460
Although he says master, the new question.

393
00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:58.259
But no, it's an old bloke based on a man called Frank Richards, who was actually Charles Hamilton, who wrote the magnet comic Billy Buncher, who, of course, is...

394
00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:00.420
Cyril, the fact that he's in...

395
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:03.420
Terrible, which I can't say...

396
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:04.140
Do you know the thing?

397
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:05.519
Oh, look, this lovely thing.

398
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:06.180
This lovely thing.

399
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:07.259
Okay, you've got 3 doctors.

400
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.480
I think he's actually Jasmine Brokes.

401
00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:16.619
Justin, the same way, the remembrance of the Dalek, you've got little blonde kid under the industrial motorcycle hairdryer.

402
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.000
You've got the mask.

403
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.099
You've got the master and his little skull cap in this one.

404
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:35.519
It's also, if you're interested in the Frank Richards thing, he wrote, you remember the master says that he wrote like 5000 words a week for like 20 years or something or, you know, and it's some extraordinary announcement words that he wrote.

405
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:46.799
There is a really, really interesting and clever analysis of his writing by George Orwell, like in an...

406
00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:47.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

407
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:57.720
In an essay called Boys Weeklies from 1940, and Orwell assumes that because these stories about Greyfrock, I, it's called Grey Fries.

408
00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:59.220
It's the name of the school or something like that.

409
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:00.000
I can't remember.

410
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.980
But the Billy Bunger stories.

411
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:09.299
He just thinks that the there are so many and the style is so sort of generic and it's been going for so many decades.

412
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:15.240
He just assumes that it's a pseudonym for a whole bunch of different writers who are writing in a particular style.

413
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:21.119
And he actually corrects himself in a footnote to say, no, this guy just is just writing and writing and writing.

414
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:28.859
But like literally decades, he wrote in the magnet magazine from 1908 to 1940 and just a story every week.

415
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:31.440
And Peter Lee had a similar career.

416
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:36.420
And you can see this is a real little knot to how awful it is to have to be a hack writer.

417
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.339
So in the same way.

418
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:43.980
But I want to talk also about the universe where this occurs because this is actually interesting.

419
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:49.380
Have you noticed that it could actually be a construct either of the eternals or the cause of Ragnarok?

420
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:57.299
Or it could actually be a tharyl construct because you've got the same white void where imagination and ideas.

421
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:05.339
You've got the same white void where imagination and ideas. construct the world, just as you do in Warrior's Gate.

422
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:11.700
In fact, I think I think that there is something slightly 60s and disappointing about this in that.

423
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:18.420
It's revealed to be a megalomaniacal computer in charge of it, and the computer has control rooms.

424
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.839
It is, but it's like the great intelligence has to have a control room as well.

425
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:27.059
But the thing is, it's playing with the 60s idea.

426
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:30.119
Yes, it has to be a computer because this is 60.

427
00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.000
And because that's what 60s fiction is.

428
00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:34.140
And that's what James Bond does.

429
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.480
Yeah, that's what big films do, yeah.

430
00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:42.599
Yes, villains are German and muscle bound and have disintegrated rays and costumes are like skeletons.

431
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.660
Yes, Rapunzels are flirt because she's waiting for a prince.

432
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:49.680
Yes, robots are ill defined and based on childhood fears.

433
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.619
This is one I absolutely love.

434
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:54.539
Rod hates into.

435
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:55.079
Really?

436
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:57.539
I think this is the point.

437
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.119
I want to say metalipsis.

438
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.220
It's one of those things.

439
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:03.420
It's one of those stories.

440
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:04.500
It's not so much about itself.

441
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:05.460
It's about what it's about.

442
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.460
It's a thing about other things and it's interesting.

443
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:12.359
But if you look at it just straight on, Yeah, probably isn't that exciting or interesting.

444
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:14.640
But Doctor Who fans, it's really interesting.

445
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:19.920
I remember being shocked by how cheap it looked because it was the 1st 6 doctor who I ever saw.

446
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:20.279
Oh, really?

447
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:20.519
Yeah.

448
00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:22.619
I remember being horrified.

449
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:28.680
It was the 1st 60s, 1st black and white Doctor Who. because as a child, I didn't like watching black and white television.

450
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:30.599
No, no, well...

451
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.980
I thought it was fantastic when I 1st saw it in 86 and...

452
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.039
And I liked it because it was tripping at all those other things.

453
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:40.440
Yeah, and it's got Christopher Robbie with his hands on his hips.

454
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.759
Absolutely.

455
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:42.480
Do you know what I'm saying?

456
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.799
Be outside the controller.

457
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:45.720
He's always doing the same kind of thing.

458
00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:56.819
I'm looking pretty, pretty well smashing any sort of tight season, Robert, rippy up. and he gets thrown around by Freddie Padre and the deal later on, which is, again, lampooning a whole other thing.

459
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.619
It does every show and every story.

460
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.380
And Wendy actually does a really good job with it.

461
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:02.339
She had a weak strain.

462
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.019
Yeah, she said I was quite nervous, but Christopher threw himself around.

463
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:07.980
It was wonderful.

464
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.259
So you it's so many stories in that one, aren't there?

465
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:21.480
Such a joyful experience after the dominators because even though the plot may be scarce and repetitive, it's Doctor Who having fun.

466
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:30.299
Yeah, and after the previous year. where it wasn't, it had stopped adventuring and it had stopped doing things that it hadn't tried before.

467
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.660
This is really an incredible breadth of fresh air.

468
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:35.099
We were weird.

469
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:36.000
Yeah.

470
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:36.599
Well, weird.

471
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:39.779
And the 1st story, you really don't know what's going on in the title.

472
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:52.559
You know, it was originally shot as Jamie and Zoe and the console just flicker out of existence from the console room and Patrick was meant to be lying there in a comatose state, but they considered that to be too frightening.

473
00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:55.619
I think apparently they shot it, but they thought it was too frightening for the children.

474
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.119
At home.

475
00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:58.559
I don't see why it would have been amazing.

476
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.059
It's pretty amazing what we have.

477
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:01.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

478
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:03.240
Did the TARDIS appears to disappear?

479
00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:12.539
What I like is that you can see this story is like an episode of the prisoner, really, which by now had been seen, of all of this is actually happening in the character's imaginations.

480
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:19.740
And really, very rarely, it is because the cockwork soldiers, Jamie doesn't contribute much, but they're obviously red coats.

481
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:24.299
And they're obviously in another playoff side and then he's constantly having to revisit that notion.

482
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:28.740
Zoe, obviously, with the Crocus, that's from her childhood, from the year 2000.

483
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:33.660
But it's fair enough to say that that was an old comic being read broadcasts.

484
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.000
Patrick doesn't know.

485
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:38.880
Yeah, the doc, where does the doctor's fantasies things slip in?

486
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:42.059
Well, of course, he knows Gulliver backwards to Franchi.

487
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:43.019
So...

488
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:48.119
Yeah, but those are things that kids are going to be aware.

489
00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:49.380
Yeah, you know what I mean?

490
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.880
That like Gulliver.

491
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:57.539
Again, did I mention that Dean Swift is in my enemies list?

492
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:58.559
Yes, yes, you did.

493
00:31:58.559 --> 00:31:58.740
Yeah.

494
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:03.240
Like Gulliver, you know, was a perennial kid's favourite, you know, Rapunzel.

495
00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:07.019
So it's all, it's all, you know, there's reference to little women.

496
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:11.339
Yes, yeah, there's an extract read from...

497
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:17.640
We've got all those stories, Greek mythology, stuff you do at school, you know, the 1st bit of stop motion, proper animation.

498
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:20.880
Oh, it's the 1st John Friedlander spot in this one.

499
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:27.599
The Medusa head and the movie Wavy Snakes, the by John Friedland, who later gave us Darth Ross a whole lot of other groovy draconian things.

500
00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:28.200
Oh, really?

501
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:28.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

502
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:30.299
It's his 1st work.

503
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:35.279
And it looks great because, you know, Harry Howson was doing all those super Voyage of Tom Baker stories.

504
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:36.599
So this thing.

505
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.599
It's great because it's what some of your toy maker should have been.

506
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:46.259
And it's not, it doesn't totally get there, of course, but it's so much better than what it could have been.

507
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.140
It's also the 1st appearance of Sir Bernard Horseball.

508
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.339
Yes.

509
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:51.660
Yes.

510
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:52.920
He should be.

511
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:57.359
Well, he also points taken off for, um, he's in diamonds forever.

512
00:32:57.420 --> 00:32:59.700
Yeah, everyone, everything awful as diamonds are forever.

513
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:00.960
No, it storms up forever.

514
00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:02.640
Yeah, that's right.

515
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:04.859
It's friend of the podcast, Gary Russell, who's an octopus.

516
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:05.460
Yes, exactly.

517
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.680
No, he does get points off repearing in that.

518
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:14.039
But he is he's pretty good in this with his sort of northern accent and he's weird way of saying it.

519
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:16.440
He's not...

520
00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:18.720
It's really fun. really like him.

521
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:20.099
He's terrific.

522
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:27.480
And he appears several time lords and I think next, well, later this year, in fact, well, he sentenced the doctors were exiled.

523
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:31.079
Spoiler alert. sentence you to be John Pertwee.

524
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:33.000
Yes, that is cruel, isn't it?

525
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.559
No, you should have something in their constitution.

526
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:36.660
John Kurt, where you can be chubby check.

527
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:38.640
Matt Smith.

528
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:40.680
We didn't see all the other drawers. they threw up, did we?

529
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.400
No, no.

530
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.220
Can we mention Hamish Wilson?

531
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:48.839
Oh, of course, yeah. those you don't know out there, dear listeners.

532
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:56.819
Just before recording episode two, Fraser Hines on the Monday of rehearsals was diagnosed with chicken pox.

533
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:58.019
Well, that's what he tells everyone.

534
00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:01.920
Well, that's, you know, that's what Derek Sherwin says as well.

535
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:03.240
Of course, I was with other people.

536
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.779
But yeah, his doctor said, no, you can't be near anyone.

537
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:08.400
You have to put yourself in quarantine.

538
00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:11.460
And this was getting towards the end of the production block.

539
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:15.960
This was actually the last thing recorded in the production block, so they couldn't delay recording.

540
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.039
The decision was made.

541
00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:20.400
Hold on, we're in a story where things can just pop in and out of existence.

542
00:34:20.460 --> 00:34:21.179
Brilliant.

543
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:22.800
So you got a whole other actor doing it.

544
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.840
We'll have a whole...

545
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.780
Yeah, actually got it.

546
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.800
He's from Gl asking.

547
00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:31.139
He's Glaswegian.

548
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:41.579
He describes on the making of, you know, one of the challenges was I in Glaswegian, but Fraser does an Anbrax, and so I sounded nothing like him, and I felt very bad about that.

549
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:46.980
It's like a Scotsman saying, yeah, my accent wasn't good enough for the Englishman pretending to be Scottish.

550
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:56.099
There is a scene actually where he calls out and the doctor just thinks it's Jamie, even though it sounds nothing.

551
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:57.119
Yeah, absolutely.

552
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:04.679
I'm also quite amused by the fact that every time Wendy Patbury talks about it, says, would have liked to keep Hamish, actually. you have to change him back.

553
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:06.059
We didn't need Fraser.

554
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.460
She's cruel, isn't she?

555
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.920
She also would have got to keep her pants.

556
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:14.159
They didn't pants Wendy.

557
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:16.139
I think I think this one...

558
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:27.179
I think this might have actually been the story where during rehearsal, Wendy fell asleep and she was wearing a skirt that had clasps on the side and they undid the clasps and said, wake up, patterns.

559
00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:28.139
It's time for your scene.

560
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:34.739
And she jumped up and ran out of the waiting room, wearing only own knickers and who should walk in, but the vicar.

561
00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:41.400
Because they would rehearse in an old church hall and she curtseyed and said, good morning, Vicar, and ran back to get her skirt.

562
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:43.500
That's delightful.

563
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:48.840
That's why none of these people. 60s in a box, isn't it?

564
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:49.139
Really?

565
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:50.940
where it's always things.

566
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:54.780
It's worth watching for the things that it does.

567
00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:05.400
I mean, even though it's playing with the, and it's the 1st time I'm going to use this word, and I think about 5 podcasts, that's playing with the trotes of Dr. Cat.

568
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:13.619
Even though it is, I do think, you know, at the end where it suddenly and we're going to invade Earth.

569
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.019
Men will become like a string of sausages.

570
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:22.500
That was one of Rod's big problems and it is kind of a thing. that's what pissed me off with otherwise amazing power of three.

571
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:29.519
And I love that story with, you know, with Matt Smith and with the father and son too.

572
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

573
00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:32.219
Rory and Rory and...

574
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.440
Brian Martin playing his dad Brian.

575
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:38.820
It was such a big story and they ended up like finishing up every bloody story of Voyager.

576
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:42.719
We just end up on an alien bridge and it's an invasion or some sort of other plan.

577
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:44.039
He's a real...

578
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:45.300
Voyage alien.

579
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:46.920
Yeah, well, that's what I was saying before.

580
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:55.860
Like, I still think, you know, when it comes to greatest show in the galaxy, it will be caused by gods and magic stones and that kind of thing.

581
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:56.820
Much more fun.

582
00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:02.400
Yeah, but here there has to be sort of some crummy science fiction thing and there has to be some threat to earth.

583
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:18.360
And it's the same as the abominable snowman, which is abominable snowman and the yesi, where it's a disembodied intelligence that can possess people and do anything, but it feels compelled to make them make sad 60s futuristic control rooms.

584
00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:25.920
And it is, there is a kind of only narrow range within which Doctor Who operates in this era.

585
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:38.460
And the mind robber does a far, far better job than most of escaping from that range, but just the dead weight of science fiction kind of pulls it back to be a particular sort of thing towards the end.

586
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:39.539
Absolutely.

587
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:45.659
And it feels so strange, simply because Earth has not really been involved until this point.

588
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.739
Except, you know, all the fiction comes from Earth, which is understandable.

589
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.860
But, Yeah, Earth hasn't even been involved.

590
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:54.659
And then suddenly we're going to invade Earth.

591
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:56.340
So use the power of man's imagination.

592
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:59.940
It's like, well, that's completely in variance with what's happened before.

593
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.820
Rod described it as we have 5 episodes of padding, followed by only going to invade Earth because why not?

594
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:06.840
Yeah, yeah.

595
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:16.199
Yeah, no, I can see how that would, you know, and that's that's pretty similar to my assessment of celestial toy maker, you know, that that is just wall to wall padding.

596
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:17.940
Yeah, even from the invasion of Earth.

597
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.880
But I think this one has a sort of structure and a quest structure and stuff.

598
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:23.159
It does seem to be better structure.

599
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:29.280
Oh, yeah, I think it's actually got a plot, and it's got a beginning, a middle, and an end, and it does repeat the sort of constant.

600
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.539
Oh, a fictional character.

601
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:35.039
We have to say they don't exist, but it still has development.

602
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:35.940
Yeah.

603
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:44.219
You know, um, whereas the repetition of having to go through various tasks as a less people toy maker just feels like we need to fill 3 episodes.

604
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.960
You know, they.

605
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:52.380
I just had a memory of like a flashback of that stupid story and the rhymes and everything.

606
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.019
Goodness, that's awful. never recover.

607
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:56.940
Never, I tell you.

608
00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:00.480
Anything else on?

609
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:02.099
No, I've already passed on.

610
00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:07.500
All right, so you go and read Five Children indeed.

611
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:14.340
If you want to get this story, go and read, and don't listen to him, because Gol of Us Travels actually has really interesting satire and political comedy.

612
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.079
But he's on the...

613
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:17.039
I like his pro style.

614
00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:17.940
Yeah, look.

615
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:22.619
No, no, I enjoy the book enormously, but there's a middle bit where it's a floating island full of scientists.

616
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:27.360
And Swift, who is a clergyman, mocks the scientists.

617
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:35.579
And, you know, all his satire is about science and you kind of think, sweetheart, you are massively on the losing side of this battle.

618
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:39.539
But scientists at the time are also jumping in on the whole.

619
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:43.739
In fact, David Whittaker's an 18th century scientist because it's all alchemy and woo-woo.

620
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:45.900
Oh, my stuff.

621
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:48.179
But he also, the Yahoos.

622
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.280
You know, these primitive, appalling.

623
00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:50.880
What's the quote?

624
00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:51.599
I've written it down.

625
00:39:51.659 --> 00:39:52.380
I looked it up.

626
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:58.260
The Yahoos were disgusting primitive criminals. ruled over by an equine governance of horses.

627
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.519
It's the British royal family.

628
00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:02.219
The youngest princess Anne.

629
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:05.219
No, no, no, they're terrible.

630
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.780
Okay, well, I mean, it's all one culture.

631
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:10.679
But we're the yahoos and the royal family are ruling us how awful.

632
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:14.460
I think there's lots in Swift, just like there's lots in the story, but you've got to look.

633
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:15.960
So the way I like watching this show.

634
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:17.039
It's not what it is.

635
00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:19.380
It's what it references and what you can find in it.

636
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.579
It's not linked to itself.

637
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:21.780
It's once you go under the surface.

638
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.920
Oh, no, no.

639
00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:23.880
It's a good book.

640
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:25.500
I'll admit this show.

641
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:27.239
By my mind, Robert, it's been love.

642
00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:28.079
Bye, bye, bye, bye.

643
00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:29.940
And bug eye production block five.

644
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.500
We head on...

645
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:33.420
Let the door fit your arse on.

646
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:39.960
Into the last production block of the 1960s. with the baby.

647
00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:48.599
Now, this is really good.

648
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:50.519
Isn't that nice?

649
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:53.820
Truth, this is good. and I love, I love this.

650
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:55.019
I love the animated version.

651
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.960
I love, um, there's a thing in Martin who wrote the Target novel.

652
00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:58.800
Yes.

653
00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.199
That's a Ripper, Boys and Girls.

654
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:04.679
And this is a river, and the animation versions of, I love every version of this.

655
00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:05.760
Yeah, absolutely.

656
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:08.280
I was so chuffed that I got this.

657
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.280
Yeah, I noticed that, yeah, you're going to talk over it.

658
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:12.360
Yeah, so...

659
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:14.519
He's getting a word in each word.

660
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:22.619
The weird thing is, of course, Doctor Who stories that go over 4 parts more often than not are hideously padded.

661
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:25.920
No, tiresome. tires.

662
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:30.420
The invasion managers to escape that, really by being two, 4 parters that are put together.

663
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:48.840
So episodes one to 4 are all about setting up the mystery of Tobias Vaughan, reestablishing the brigadier, introducing unit, and giving us the 1st modern day story in a city environment since the baseless ones.

664
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:54.239
You know, we did have the modern day story of hearing from the deep, but that could have been set a 100 years in the future.

665
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:55.500
I think it kind of was.

666
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.280
I mean, why do the oil guard people all have guns and sort of space helmets?

667
00:41:59.340 --> 00:41:59.579
Exactly.

668
00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:06.119
But yeah, we do have this possibly slightly future environment.

669
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:10.619
There's nothing in the script to specify, but they have video phones.

670
00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:12.300
Coala shirts are quite common.

671
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.960
You know, you've got a military base inside a Hercules jet.

672
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.800
And the BBC continuity now, so I said it was 1975.

673
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.039
So, no, I think it's later than that.

674
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:28.559
I think, don't they say it's 4 years after the yeti.

675
00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:36.179
And I think the yeti, and we aren't going to fight over this, is Saturday 1975. visually.

676
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:38.940
Yeah, Well, as usual, it's always saving the actual year.

677
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:45.179
But Jamie says that it's only been a few weeks for him since the yeti, but the brigandier says it's been 4 years.

678
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.519
So it is near future.

679
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:49.980
Like it's sort of 10 years in the future or something like that.

680
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:50.639
Yeah.

681
00:42:50.639 --> 00:43:03.179
Now, the thing is, if you were to say that where the fear was set in the year it was broadcast 1967, then 4 years later would be 1971.

682
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:14.340
And the implication later on in Spearhead is that not much time, certainly no longer than a year has passed since the invasion for the brigadier.

683
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.619
So that's possible, but we're getting into unit dating later.

684
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:17.699
No, let's not.

685
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:20.760
I can't possibly put the energy into caring about that at all.

686
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:28.980
When I say later, and remember, I'm coming back to unit dating with a certain Tom Baker story, foreshadowing the team listener, foreshadowing.

687
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:36.599
It's a game of 2 halves, very wisely because, you know, when you've got this sort of huge 8 part iceberg in the middle of your thing.

688
00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:40.260
You can you can really sort of handle that in 2 ways.

689
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:50.699
You can do what John Wiles did with the Doic master plan and say, I don't want to make this anyway, so let's get on with it, do it by the numbers, or you can do what Derek Sherwin did and say, right, I'm developing an idea.

690
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:55.320
I'm giving it to some very talented writers, and we are going to go for broke.

691
00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:58.559
And I think a big reason that they go for broke.

692
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:02.579
Is this is the 5th anniversary special of Doctor.

693
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:03.119
Oh, really?

694
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:03.900
think so?

695
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:08.579
Episode 4 was broadcast on the 23rd of November, 1968.

696
00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:10.380
Wow. isn't that lovely?

697
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.340
You know why, though?

698
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.019
This is a doggie Campfield director.

699
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:14.460
Oh, look at it.

700
00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:16.679
It's Hysteric Sherwin writing it finally.

701
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:20.039
So we get we get Doctor Who as it's meant to be by this production team.

702
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:21.960
So they pull out...

703
00:44:22.019 --> 00:44:24.780
You've got Derek Sherwin, you've got doggie camp.

704
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:25.679
We've got a score.

705
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:26.699
What about this score?

706
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.659
You know, we've mentioned the 4 John Barry score for the Ipcris Files.

707
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.280
Have you ever watched that movie again, great?

708
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:33.119
It's the same music.

709
00:44:33.179 --> 00:44:36.719
It's as close as you can get without getting, you know, super.

710
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.579
It's, I love the sound of this thing.

711
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:43.559
They bring back a returning monster in the form of the side and men who don't appear until the anniversary.

712
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:50.219
They're a little bit of rubbish, so they're staying boxes for the 1st 4 episodes because they're just, yeah, they're unfurry yetis.

713
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:56.579
They just cyphers for the real villain who is drumroll, the campus thing of the 60s we've ever had.

714
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.320
It's magic, isn't it?

715
00:44:58.380 --> 00:44:59.880
magic magic chair?

716
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:05.639
Yeah, and, you know, the best villain actress, Doctor Who, assigned from Patrick Trouton, playing Tobias Vaughan.

717
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:06.599
Yeah, he's really.

718
00:45:06.659 --> 00:45:09.360
So he's back, the brigadier. who is this guy?

719
00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:10.260
It's Tobias Spawn.

720
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:10.920
What's his...

721
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:12.179
Tobias' motivation.

722
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:13.079
What's his motivation?

723
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:14.579
His motivation?

724
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:17.400
His family were killed in a car crash, just his initials are off.

725
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:24.119
And of course, he has his wonderful henchman packed. to his names, yeah.

726
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:25.980
He's actually...

727
00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:27.599
He's actually...

728
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.480
Tobias Vaughan's motivation is the whole Rupert Murdoch thing.

729
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:32.280
He just wants power over media.

730
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:33.840
That's why he's such a great villain.

731
00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:38.760
It's really just the whole narrative thing of his own narcissistic will for control.

732
00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:43.980
And he says, camp is a pair of others in a really crowded field from episode one.

733
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:46.199
Oh gosh, she's wonderful.

734
00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:49.679
Importantly, his camp, but still manages to be menacing.

735
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:51.659
He's saying not as menacing.

736
00:45:51.780 --> 00:45:59.760
Well, the thing is, if you look at grown normally, if you look at 60s Batman, you get camp, but you don't really get menacing.

737
00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:04.019
Yeah, we might segue actually. because the Blu-ray box set of Adam West Batman's about to come out.

738
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.199
I watched a few by the time I'm getting it.

739
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:07.980
We'll watch a few.

740
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:09.420
Probably when we get to the end of the season.

741
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:13.320
Yeah, I'm actually, I've actually bought it for Rob for Christmas and he doesn't use the podcast.

742
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:14.579
So, no, that's fine.

743
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:23.039
It really is an extraordinary performance and it does look in a way like they're trying to remake Dalek master plan.

744
00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:25.619
They don't have the daleks anymore, but they have the cybermen.

745
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.920
And they bring Tobias Vaughn because he's done such a tribase.

746
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:35.400
So on Kevin Stoney, as a great, because he's not escaped this character. villain, like such a spectacularly great villain.

747
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.099
And the performance is really, really remarkable.

748
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:42.539
So there are times where he just seems absolutely powerful and in control.

749
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:47.579
There's that fantastic scene early on where Isabel, who we just have to talk about in America.

750
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:48.539
Because she's not out.

751
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:49.139
She's wonderful.

752
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:58.860
And we'll talk about this is another reason to hate Norman Ashby, like Hazman and Lincoln, who refused again to give the rights to the Travers character.

753
00:46:58.920 --> 00:46:59.940
Oh, is that why we don't have them?

754
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.139
So that's why they don't need it.

755
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.320
I mean, they did look into it and Jack Watling wasn't available anyway.

756
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:10.260
But yeah, you're right that they couldn't use the characters even if they wanted to.

757
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.119
They did manage to wrangle Lethbridge Stewart, though.

758
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:13.199
Yeah, that's true.

759
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:25.019
That's because Sherman actually, and maintains to this day, Derek Sherman is quite vocal that is now resuming the BBC and has been doing so for over 20 years because he says he invented units.

760
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:25.800
He's crazy.

761
00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:28.559
Well, shoot.

762
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.559
Yeah, but he was a freelance writer when he wrote...

763
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.900
Hang on, was it Weather Fair?

764
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.519
Miss Freelance, Freelancer working.

765
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:36.780
I know he didn't like Webber Fear.

766
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.639
But he's still home.

767
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:39.599
He invented you.

768
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:40.980
No, I mean, he did.

769
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:43.139
He grabbed a unit on top of the original script.

770
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:43.500
Yeah.

771
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:48.719
Yeah, Vic Singerton isn't too happy about the fact that the Sonic Screwdriver is so heavily marketed.

772
00:47:48.780 --> 00:48:03.300
That's true So anyway, when they break into international electromastics, which is his company, when they break in in sort of episode 2, because Zoe speaks to a computer in our goal and makes its brain explorer.

773
00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:05.639
And then you can enjoy doing that too, Mac.

774
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:12.059
Yeah, yeah, but Mac isn't very good at our goal and neither am I. But I do at least know how to pronounce the word integer. unlike Zoe.

775
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.420
And so he's laughing.

776
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:18.239
And like it's not sort of evil villain mark.

777
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:21.719
It's like genuinely abused and he does it quite a lot.

778
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:27.840
And there's one, one easily terrifying scene where Isabel Watkins.

779
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:40.380
So Professor Watkins, um, who is being kept captive and he says, you know, you're an evil man and all of that sort of thing and I would, you know, destroy you and and he gives him a gun.

780
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:41.940
Give him a gun.

781
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:42.900
Give him a gun.

782
00:48:42.900 --> 00:48:45.539
And he's so amused and he's so...

783
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:46.739
I mean it's so wonderful.

784
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:55.860
And then he'll turn on a dime and he'll be screaming and stuff and he's really terrifying and like really... with too much power.

785
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:57.000
He's wonderful though.

786
00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:58.980
It is such an amazing performance.

787
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:07.800
Yeah, it almost feels like in the new series, in the Sontarian strategm, they were kind to trying to go down a similar route with the Luke Ratagan character.

788
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:09.599
You know, the smartest man in the room.

789
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:14.039
He doesn't quite pull it off because he doesn't have, I mean, I suppose it's a matter of age.

790
00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:19.619
You know, you couldn't believe a young man playing the Kevin Stony part, playing Tobias Paul.

791
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:20.820
Well, he wouldn't get away with that.

792
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:21.900
No, I reckon you could.

793
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:26.460
Like, it could be like a young, because he just needs to be like a tech startup kind of guy.

794
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:27.480
Do you know what I mean?

795
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:33.000
Like, but it is, it's just, it's just the variety of the performance and things.

796
00:49:33.059 --> 00:49:39.059
It's so wonderful And what's so worries as well is Kevin Stoney is he's a tall man.

797
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:40.739
He's got that shock of white hair.

798
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:53.579
He's immaculately dressed and they piss him against Troughton, who is small, clothe the 2 big forehead, dressed like a triumph, dark hair, and it becomes a battle of the mines.

799
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:55.440
And right from the beginning.

800
00:49:56.099 --> 00:49:59.699
At 1st Packer's like, 0 God, you know, who are those two?

801
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.320
Who are those 2 scrappy looking parent?

802
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.440
Bourne's just like, no, no, no, he's he's a danger.

803
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:08.039
Our allies, no him, packer.

804
00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:12.539
Also, he's one of the most fun villains to do the boys for.

805
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:14.940
Oh, we're protected.

806
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.699
What about what about the cyber thing?

807
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:26.639
The side of thing behind the wall that has Peter Halliday doing sort of like a funny, ridiculous wrecking fact.

808
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:28.380
What the hell is platform?

809
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:29.219
Who knows?

810
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:34.260
Well, according to Doctor Who magazine and their comic script, Planet 14 is Marinus.

811
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:36.599
Or the moon.

812
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:41.460
Yeah, there's a whole 6th doctor segue. to try and get like...

813
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.139
The board becomes cyber...

814
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:44.219
That was the world shape.

815
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:46.199
That was Scott Morrison of all people.

816
00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:48.179
Oh, I think I feel like that Morrison.

817
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:52.860
This is actually the moment where they stop caring about the Sidemen's origins in a way.

818
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.079
Maybe they've done that before that.

819
00:50:55.139 --> 00:51:00.900
But, you know, like 1996, they arrive, 2070, it's the moon base and everyone kind of remembers them.

820
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.380
God knows when Wheel of Space is set, like, who knows?

821
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.480
I believe it is the 21st century.

822
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:09.420
People say that, but it's not actually said anywhere.

823
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:12.539
And no one's heard its side and there.

824
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:17.460
And then there's the tomb of Simon, which is sort of the far future, but there's a sense in which the Simon are from the future.

825
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.260
They're from sort of...

826
00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:22.139
Yeah, because chronologically, this is the earliest we've seen inside there.

827
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:22.619
Yeah, yeah.

828
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.280
So somehow they're back in like and they've heard of the doctor.

829
00:51:26.340 --> 00:51:28.199
So you must have had an earlier.

830
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.059
So I just don't think we care anymore.

831
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.239
And there is a sense in which the show has done that again.

832
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:44.820
When Russell reintroduces the sidemen, he does it in a great way by having them from a parallel world rather than from like a parallel universe rather than a mysterious twin planet.

833
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:50.039
And so they're invented in sort of 2006, essentially.

834
00:51:50.099 --> 00:51:50.639
Yes.

835
00:51:50.639 --> 00:52:00.059
And every subsequent reappearance in Russell's era, there is an explanation for why they're there, even when they appear in the past in the next doctor.

836
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:11.039
But since then we don't care and they can appear at any space or time and they landed their spaceship, you know, centuries ago in closing time and that shouldn't be possible, but we've stopped.

837
00:52:11.099 --> 00:52:11.639
Yeah, exactly.

838
00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:15.599
How they got there is less important than the fact they are there.

839
00:52:15.659 --> 00:52:23.760
And I think the cyberman sort of being strong, silent, heavies in this is far more effective than it was in the wheel in space.

840
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:40.980
And I think again, that's partially due to the use of Tobias Vaughan, because it gives them a human face, which means you can put off seeing them in that great David Whitaker tradition of prevaricating, revealing your monster without having a nebulous threat.

841
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:44.039
You've got a tangible threat in the form of Tobias Vaughan.

842
00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:46.019
So it doesn't matter that we don't see side memorators.

843
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:46.980
And then when we do see them.

844
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:49.079
Yeah, they don't speak very much because they don't have to.

845
00:52:49.139 --> 00:52:51.239
I think they've got 2 lines of dialogue.

846
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.920
I don't use against Pete Halliday.

847
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:55.260
But they are just blunt instruments in this.

848
00:52:55.320 --> 00:53:02.820
And there, despite the fact they don't speak, because you've got the sign of a plan of evil treacherous and saying, right, we've got what we want now, we can dispose of you.

849
00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:09.239
The sidemen become terrifying, arguably for the 1st time since the moveback.

850
00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:15.300
Yeah, but in a sense, they're not really terrifying because they're just a fleet of spaceship firing missiles at us.

851
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:16.980
And the whole end of it is all about that.

852
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:20.699
But all of that is so funny out of the sewers.

853
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:21.480
Oh, yeah.

854
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:32.400
It's iconic, but it's difficult when we start talking about, you know, in terms of emotional reactions to this because we're not 5 and none of us listening to this are going to be 5 and we weren't 5 when we saw it.

855
00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:38.039
I think I wonder if we kind of wanting it to be terrifying just because we've got having an affair with this thing.

856
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:39.480
Because we are really.

857
00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:46.739
I mean, you do kind of elevate your partner to the point of being lovely, even for its sports that you don't really see.

858
00:53:46.800 --> 00:54:09.000
I like to think it's frightening, but I think what makes it work is actually the artfulness of the construct of it, that the way they're articulated and the way they move and come out and the way that they're held back for so long is and that, like all these regulants, you could argue that maybe the Daleks really only reach a popular core or get a 2nd loop when they've got Davros in front of them.

859
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:12.900
Maybe the side of them only really work with because they've got Tobias born in front of them.

860
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:16.019
You need someone to do the gestures to do the bases and do the accent.

861
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:22.739
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to background the most scenes in the moon base where the Simon go on and on in sort of episode four.

862
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:24.480
No one wants to see that again, I think.

863
00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:28.139
Whereas Tobias Mawn. listening to a printer going wrong.

864
00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:31.079
Where's my form?

865
00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:35.940
But, you know, Tobias Mawn just is fabulous every time he's on screen.

866
00:54:36.059 --> 00:54:39.960
You know, you said earlier that it was like a game of 2 parts.

867
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:41.579
But I actually wonder whether that's the case.

868
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:47.219
Like at the halfway point we get the cybermen, but they don't really change the focus of the story.

869
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:59.760
And I was actually thinking, you know, other cybermen a mystery sort of thing because in fact, I discovered the radio time says at episode one that this is a new cyberman story.

870
00:54:59.820 --> 00:55:02.820
So everyone's waiting for the side of the mentor arrived.

871
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:13.260
There's all this talk about emotions, you know, and Professor Watkins, who will later go on to have giant hair and invent Professor Kettlebell's robot.

872
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:14.039
Yeah, yeah.

873
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:25.679
Professor Watkins is inventing machine that creates emotions and Vaughan says that out and, you know, like our associates or whatever he calls them, you know, are particularly vulnerable to emotion.

874
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:27.960
So I don't think it's a mystery that it's the cyberman.

875
00:55:28.019 --> 00:55:30.059
So it's not a big game changer.

876
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.860
And then you get the sidemen.

877
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:35.219
Essentially, there's episode 5 when they're in the sewer, is that right?

878
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:37.019
And then episode six.

879
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:42.360
I can't remember anymore, but it is very late in the game that we get that very iconic cliffhanger.

880
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:48.900
And so I don't think they're all that important. to the story.

881
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:59.099
What I think is that this is told at a leisurely pace, but that's tolerable because there's enough characters that we're interested in to keep us going.

882
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:03.900
And so we've got Isabel, who I think is a wonderful creation.

883
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:05.579
Like Anne Travers was spectacular.

884
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:09.480
We have to be sorry that she didn't get a 2nd run here.

885
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:11.880
But Isabella is really funny.

886
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.920
She sort of, she hasn't got that much money.

887
00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:15.960
She's super mod real.

888
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:20.099
Yeah, you can see her stepping out of any of the films that are going on at the time.

889
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:24.179
She's kind of like a Junior Julie Christie, vulnerable, real.

890
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:28.980
Yeah, she's really like Paul Street, even though she's been to a nice school.

891
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

892
00:56:30.179 --> 00:56:35.099
But she falls in love with the very straight laced and sort of, you know, very nerdy.

893
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:37.079
Not nerdy, but very concerned.

894
00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:39.300
Jimmy.

895
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:41.280
It's Jimmy. yeah, that's right. struggling there.

896
00:56:41.340 --> 00:56:42.539
So there's a Jimmy in it.

897
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.619
You always got a red shirt on that.

898
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:48.179
Have you noticed how the brick goes through his captains with a line of regularity?

899
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:52.260
Well, according to the novel face of the enemy, Jimmy gets syphilis and guy.

900
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:52.860
Stop it.

901
00:56:52.920 --> 00:57:05.400
Sorry, according to the novel face of the enemy, Captain Jimmy Turner and Captain Jimmy Monroe from Spearhead from Space are both alive and well. in Doctor Who series 9 and the brigadier and that goes out for drinks with them.

902
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:05.880
Oh, good.

903
00:57:05.940 --> 00:57:06.900
That's lovely.

904
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.179
I just think that is really nice.

905
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:11.940
That little budding romance, which is quite sweet.

906
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.260
Hey, you stinking rich?

907
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:15.599
Yes, isn't that great?

908
00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:19.559
All of that is so terrific like a smack on the back of the head, really.

909
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:22.619
It was just so you're really trying to be lingo here.

910
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:23.699
You're really trying to be street.

911
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:26.400
But yeah, at the time, it would have been fresh and surprising.

912
00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:31.139
I like the 2 girls jumping around trying to do their own version of Antonioni's blow up.

913
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:32.940
They're just missing David Hammings.

914
00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:37.079
They're both trying to be, you know, the film blow up the same year.

915
00:57:37.139 --> 00:57:38.159
Oh, it's an amazing film.

916
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:42.960
It's got David Hemmings. as a photographer, unwittingly witnesses a murderer.

917
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:45.000
It's put together from these long takes.

918
00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:45.780
But there's a scene.

919
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:56.579
It's got an amazing soundtrack from the Yardbirds, and Herbie Hancock, and it's, it's just the film of the year.

920
00:57:56.639 --> 00:58:05.219
Vanessa Redgrave, David Hemmings, Penelope Tree, a whole lot of groovy models of the 60s, and it's just this scene is meant to be David Bailey.

921
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:12.420
But yeah, there's that there's that troping that thing where, ooh, have a drink where the girls are dressing up and doing that all kind of lovely Modi 60s.

922
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:14.280
I'll put a little into the film.

923
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:17.219
I think you get an extra drink if trope becomes a verb, actually.

924
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:18.539
Yeah, yeah.

925
00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:19.260
It's a new rule.

926
00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:24.059
Troping the... frustration now and happening, doesn't it?

927
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:27.780
And of course it's got Dougie Campfield, so 8 episodes are still a pleasure cruise.

928
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:34.679
Do you know, and I don't think we've talked that much about what it is about Canfield's direction that's so good, but I do remember here.

929
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:38.760
Yeah, all the shots are so well composed.

930
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:43.980
And you compare it to the kind of hazard stuff that was happening in the studio in the early 60s.

931
00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:46.079
Everything's really nicely composed.

932
00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:49.800
People like stand up into the frame or move into the frame.

933
00:58:49.860 --> 00:59:03.119
There's a wonderful thing where Tobias Vaughn has 3 round screens on the wall of his office, and he'll go packer and packer will like move into those screens from the left, like they'll move off camera.

934
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:07.619
And then that's subverted at the very end when he calls a packer and a cyberman.

935
00:59:07.619 --> 00:59:09.360
He does exactly the same move.

936
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:15.900
We keep talking about how wonderful Kevin Stone is and how wonderful Peter Halliday is.

937
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:20.039
But as he was saying, Nathan, all of the costs are just so good in this.

938
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:21.780
Everyone is giving it their all.

939
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:24.719
Everyone has their own little story throughout.

940
00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:36.659
Um, So much so that it wasn't until about the 3rd or 4th time I watched this that I realised that Jamie and Professor Watkins just kind of disappear in episode seven.

941
00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:41.099
Jamie gets shot when, you know, they're trying to capture Professor Walker.

942
00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:41.940
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

943
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.440
So they adopt went into hospital. barely in the last 2 episodes at all.

944
00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:51.059
There's a filmed insert at the end where they're getting the Tartars and go, but essentially he's absent.

945
00:59:51.179 --> 00:59:56.940
But because all of the past are so good. don't really notice until you're made aware of it.

946
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:00.599
I'm not saying that as a detriment to Fraser.

947
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:14.940
I'm saying that as The conclusion to the story is so fast moving and there's so many things going on in different places that it's a way to kind of go, okay, we are missing someone.

948
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.340
Let's make sure the audience doesn't notice.

949
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:18.480
Yeah.

950
01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:18.840
Yeah.

951
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:25.199
It was this thing where at the end of it, I kind of felt like I was glad that I'd spent that much time with these people.

952
01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:36.719
And, you know, like it isn't, it's only a year, it's just over a year before spearhead from space and we're going to have 37 partners in that season.

953
01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:37.619
Yeah.

954
01:00:37.619 --> 01:00:38.280
Yeah.

955
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:46.079
And like, again, I'm not sure how successful all of those are, but there was something kind of nice.

956
01:00:46.139 --> 01:00:56.519
If there's enough action and enough people, uh, like enough worthwhile characters, staying with them for 8 episodes is actually not uh, is not arduous.

957
01:00:56.579 --> 01:01:02.159
And certainly many of the 6 parties last season are much harder to see it through than this.

958
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:03.239
Yeah, absolutely.

959
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:17.039
And amongst those characters who are really fun to watch, we have 2 who will soon become regular allies, I suppose, as you might call them, or regular supporting characters.

960
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:21.179
We've, of course, got Nicholas Courtney back, now promoted to Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart.

961
01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:23.159
That's a twist.

962
01:01:23.219 --> 01:01:23.880
Did you see that note?

963
01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:30.539
And yeah, it's rather wonderful. 1st time we, the 1st time we see him at the story, he's climbing out of the cockpit.

964
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:35.219
So, you know, you get an eye full of Nicholas Court, his rear end and then ta-da.

965
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.360
I'm wearing a moustache.

966
01:01:36.420 --> 01:01:45.960
And of course, sitting on the cons unit and getting people on the blow of the brigadier and spying on the doctor and Jamie in a car.

967
01:01:46.019 --> 01:01:49.500
Sergeant Benton, welcome John Levine in the flesh.

968
01:01:49.559 --> 01:02:11.280
Well, so John Levine had been a yeti in the web of fear and he had been a cyberman in the moon base, apparently, uncredited and he was going to be a cyberman in this, but Donny Canfield sacked the original Benton and kept turning up later recording and putting their their schedule out and no one will tell us who the original Benton was.

969
01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:12.539
I don't think we know.

970
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:14.760
But then Benson gets promoted.

971
01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:28.380
And Benton is in it all the way through until the Android invasion is his last appearance last regular appearance and he gets mentions in both Morden Undead and Battlefield years later.

972
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:37.440
So he does have a really long history of the pro with the program and he is, it's just him and the brigadier from 60s units are the only ones who survive.

973
01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:45.840
And it's rather likely, you know, considering this is effectively Doctor Who's 5th anniversary story, whether it was intended to be a, I don't think, is that important.

974
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:50.940
It's rather lovely that this uses so much Doctor Who's past.

975
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:52.679
You know, the earth is under attack.

976
01:02:52.739 --> 01:02:53.940
It's got cybermen.

977
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.400
They've brought back a villain from the art and era.

978
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:57.300
They brought back W.

979
01:02:57.300 --> 01:03:02.039
Canfield, who directed part of the stories as well, but it has something for the future as well.

980
01:03:02.099 --> 01:03:03.000
Setting up units.

981
01:03:03.059 --> 01:03:04.619
It's bringing in Sergeant Benton.

982
01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:06.360
How conscious is that?

983
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:10.320
According to Derek Sherwin, it's quite conscious that.

984
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:18.300
The writing was already on the wall, even for this 1st pile of production block, but the costs needed to be brought down for Doctor Who.

985
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:19.619
But he was told very late in the day.

986
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.920
So it's like, right, you can only turn a cruise liner so fast.

987
01:03:23.340 --> 01:03:31.440
We'll start turning around. the most expensive Dr. Moose story to date though, apparently. makes sense.

988
01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:34.980
You know, he also said he was sick of all this blundering about space.

989
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.019
He thought it was...

990
01:03:37.019 --> 01:03:44.099
So, yeah, he was pitching this idea of earthbound stories, political thrillers will have a regular cast.

991
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.760
So even though, you know, we'll have to spend money on us.

992
01:03:47.820 --> 01:03:51.000
Yeah, we'll have to spend money on yeah, it's troubleshooters.

993
01:03:51.059 --> 01:03:52.800
It's the concept that Sidney Newman rejected.

994
01:03:52.860 --> 01:03:59.519
Even though we'll have to spend money on battle sequences and whatnot will save money on standing sets and happy.

995
01:03:59.579 --> 01:04:03.719
So it's the celebration of the last 5 years in the beginning of something quite different.

996
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:09.480
Yeah, well, it is it could have fitted into season seven, I think.

997
01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:12.900
When the perjury era comes along quite soon.

998
01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:16.679
I do have many, many critical things to say about it.

999
01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:38.820
But one thing that I really like about it is an expanded regular cast, and it's one of the things that both Russell and Moffatt, to a lesser degree, have tried to do so that it's not just a story about 2 people and everyone else is new every month, that you get to know a bunch of people.

1000
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:44.820
And like in the pertry era, you know, I'm not saying that Benton and Yates are particularly well characterised or anything like that.

1001
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:49.739
But they are familiar faces and they do eventually become people that you're invested in.

1002
01:04:49.739 --> 01:04:52.619
And it does, I think it helps the show enormously.

1003
01:04:52.679 --> 01:05:05.760
And so here where you have, you know, Jimmy and Benton and and Isabel and, you know, Professor Watkins and, you know, like a whole bunch of people who are sort of who you're reasonably invested in, who are kind of interesting enough.

1004
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:09.360
I think it makes the show quite you know, quite fun to watch.

1005
01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:10.920
Absolutely. absolutely.

1006
01:05:10.980 --> 01:05:14.579
And it's got units based in a flying converted Hercules.

1007
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

1008
01:05:16.980 --> 01:05:17.519
Is that cool?

1009
01:05:17.579 --> 01:05:20.940
Well, they definitely haven't did have a good space on a plane.

1010
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.940
Yeah, then we get the valiant later on.

1011
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:26.039
Cloudface.

1012
01:05:26.099 --> 01:05:30.900
Well, I think that that is a, like, I think that Moffat must have done a deliberate invasion reference.

1013
01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:35.099
And that's the other thing that we haven't mentioned is this is the definitive Cyberman story.

1014
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:37.199
Yeah, certainly when there's Cyberman...

1015
01:05:37.260 --> 01:05:54.719
Yeah, we're in rise of the sidemen and age of steel, which I think are a bit underrated, having the cyberman a threat in contemporary London, you know, like I think, and in international electromatic, so I actually get a shout out, they're actually mentioned in it.

1016
01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:58.139
And this, the sidemen marching down the steps of St.

1017
01:05:58.139 --> 01:06:01.679
Paul's has been redone twice, once for more than 30 years in the TARDIS.

1018
01:06:01.739 --> 01:06:05.280
And then again, for Dark Water and Death in Heaven recently.

1019
01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:07.199
Well, you know where that comes from, though, don't you?

1020
01:06:07.260 --> 01:06:12.239
We've cited it before, and it's Canfield deliberately, you know, did it.

1021
01:06:12.300 --> 01:06:15.480
It's shot for shot, a tempkin, but ship the champion.

1022
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:20.699
It's the same shop used in Gilliam's Brazil, and it's used in Scorsese's Untouchables.

1023
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:22.980
The soldiers marching down the yeah.

1024
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:23.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1025
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:26.039
It's an iconic thing long before we got there.

1026
01:06:26.099 --> 01:06:30.059
And coming back to something you were saying earlier, Richard, about whether this is scary or not.

1027
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:36.960
The reason I find that cliffhanger to episode six, so scary, when they're all marching out, is you keep thinking the music's going to cut in now.

1028
01:06:37.019 --> 01:06:39.119
The episode's going to end and I'm going to be safe.

1029
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:43.440
But no, we cut to more cybermen and more cybermen and more cybermen.

1030
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:55.260
It's the equivalent of... the shot at the beginning of the 1st Star Wars film where the ship passes over you and it just goes on and on and on and on.

1031
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:59.340
And then there's more and more and more, and then finally the music cuts in and you're safe.

1032
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.079
Well, the credits actually scroll up them.

1033
01:07:01.139 --> 01:07:04.679
I mean, there's sidemen walking along past that pub, but they're, while they're closing credits.

1034
01:07:04.739 --> 01:07:07.320
But earlier on, you've seen that they haven't even stopped with the music.

1035
01:07:07.380 --> 01:07:07.619
Yeah.

1036
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:13.739
But earlier on, you've seen that they have to revive one at a time and I'm thinking, really, have they got the time to bring, you know, there's not probably only that 8 of them.

1037
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:15.360
They've got to do them by hand.

1038
01:07:15.420 --> 01:07:17.219
It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

1039
01:07:17.340 --> 01:07:20.099
That you could zip, zip, uh, Anyway.

1040
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:23.280
Well, they're controlling the whole world through their iPods anyway.

1041
01:07:23.340 --> 01:07:24.239
Yeah, that's right.

1042
01:07:24.300 --> 01:07:25.800
That's a nice thing.

1043
01:07:25.860 --> 01:07:26.400
I don't know.

1044
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:27.719
I don't know why they're picking on London.

1045
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:29.280
It would have been sort of more sensible.

1046
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:36.480
They're actually coming from the side, so quieter communities, but then you wouldn't have been able to do campfields, money shots.

1047
01:07:36.539 --> 01:07:39.119
So long as Vaughan is an egomaniac.

1048
01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:40.199
Yep, he really is.

1049
01:07:40.619 --> 01:07:42.780
To you, to buy us.

1050
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:43.559
You were fabulous.

1051
01:07:44.340 --> 01:07:49.079
I was going to say much like most podcasts out there, but not like ours, I'm sure.

1052
01:07:52.139 --> 01:07:55.679
I'm really glad we've ended this season, haven't we?

1053
01:07:55.739 --> 01:07:57.840
Yeah, because this just went out before Christmas, didn't it?

1054
01:07:57.900 --> 01:07:59.460
So it's nice that we're back at this point now.

1055
01:07:59.519 --> 01:08:01.500
I was really glad that the year ends on this high.

1056
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:02.099
Yeah.

1057
01:08:02.099 --> 01:08:03.539
Did they take a break?

1058
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:06.000
Like, are there a few weeks before the next story starts?

1059
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:06.780
don't think so.

1060
01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:09.360
I think they just went straight into the Crotons.

1061
01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:12.480
Yeah, I don't think they really did mean season breaks until the 70s.

1062
01:08:12.539 --> 01:08:13.199
Right.

1063
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.179
But they did do them in the 70s, didn't they?

1064
01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:16.560
Yes, they break over Christmas.

1065
01:08:16.619 --> 01:08:18.239
Yeah, they did.

1066
01:08:27.300 --> 01:08:33.300
Right, so before we go, remember, you can always enter our competition.

1067
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:41.699
Just comment on the page for this episode on the website and you'll be in the running to win a target novelisation of your choice from a selection we have available.

1068
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:49.859
Our next episode will be out next week discussing the crotons and the sea, top death.

1069
01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:53.100
Seeds of death, Seeds of Doom.

1070
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:54.119
I always get them mixed up.

1071
01:08:54.180 --> 01:08:55.020
No, it's seeds of death.

1072
01:08:55.079 --> 01:08:55.979
Don't look at me confused.

1073
01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:57.359
I was going to do that here.

1074
01:08:57.420 --> 01:08:59.579
No, no, I was trying to work out whether to go.

1075
01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:03.600
But then I realised that Bernard Breslaw is not in seeds of death.

1076
01:09:03.659 --> 01:09:04.199
No, that's right.

1077
01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:04.859
He doesn't do.

1078
01:09:04.859 --> 01:09:07.439
The phone machine is back.

1079
01:09:07.500 --> 01:09:09.239
The phone machine is back.

1080
01:09:09.300 --> 01:09:09.899
Hooray.

1081
01:09:09.960 --> 01:09:21.300
And also, the anniversary theme continues with one of the guest stars of the Crotons being quite famous for having played a role in a Hartnell story, but we'll talk about that more next time.

1082
01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:22.739
Goodbye.

1083
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:23.880
Oh, goodbye.

1084
01:09:23.939 --> 01:09:24.539
Why?

1085
01:09:24.539 --> 01:09:24.899
Thank you.

1086
01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:34.979
You have been listening to Flight Mentarity with Nathan Bottomley, Brennan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1087
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:39.359
This episode, Surprise, I've got a moustache, was reported on November the 30th.

1088
01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:42.119
The next episode will be released on December 21st.

1089
01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:48.659
You can find us online at Friday entirety.com, fly through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1090
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:52.739
This episode is dedicated to Ian Fairband, who played Gregory in the invasion.

1091
01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:01.680
I'm going to say the word tiresome over and over again.

1092
01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:02.939
Oh, we're recording.