WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:58:09

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast, which doesn't exist.

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It doesn't exist.

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Doesn't exist.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm still here And we are back looking at the beginning of Patrick

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Troughton's 3rd year as the doctor, season 6 of Doctor Who, and

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the last Doctor Who season in black and white.

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Also the last top 2 season with any missing episodes.

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So we're going to go into a story, which, I think has the record

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for missing episodes for Doctor, because it has a missing episode

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even before it finished filming, the dominators.

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It's kind of the one we kind of wish there were slightly more

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missing episodes, actually.

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I've just had it for a long time, haven't we?

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Do you know, when we were kids, Richard?

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before he was born.

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Actually, soon after he was born, but his skull probably hadn't

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hardened.

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An interesting distinction?

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In about 1986.

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They showed St.

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Patrick Trouton, and it was the 1st time I remembered them doing

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it because they used to cycle through.

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They used to show you all the poetries without the master in, and

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then they would show you sort of Tom Baker up until the present

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day, and then it would be back to sort of spearhead from space and

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then, you know, skipping season 8 and all of that.

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Do you remember this?

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But they showed 2 trouts, I think, in 1986.

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Protons.

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Crotons and mind robbers.

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And they're both from this season and they're both ones that we'll

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be discussing in the next couple of podcasts.

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Yes, and they're also both ones that my father taped on VHS.

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They were part of the VHS collection.

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I had to watch.

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Oh, so you had early experiences with them as well.

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But mysteriously, like other ones that did exist at the time, like

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the dominators, did that exist in full at the time?

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I believe it did.

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Yeah, I think... has existed for a long time as well.

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Yeah, that had a very early VHS omnibus release.

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Right, right.

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So the dominators mysteriously, why wouldn't they have shown it

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then just because it's so terrible?

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No, they wouldn't have thought like that.

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It was probably just because it was a few episodes count out.

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Yeah, because they would have the other 2 was...

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Oh, my drop.

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Oh, no, mine robbers. as well.

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Yeah.

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Mine Robin was written as 4 though. produced us for it. got an

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extra episode because they cut one out of this story.

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Thank God, just squeeze it.

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This is the one where it's not written by a fellow called Norman

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Ashley.

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It's actually Merton Hazman of Henry Lincoln, who brought us the

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Yeti sitting on our loos in Tutum.

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And this is the story where the writers not only begged the BBC

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not to show the story.

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They threatened to sue the BBC, not to show the story, because

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they thought it was so changed from their initial video.

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Yeah, it's not exactly because it's a whole pile of yeti droppings

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but...

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Well, yeah, they were also being, what have we got here?

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We've got look, this story is really interesting for what it's

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about and what it's reflecting.

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To understand this story.

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I mean, we've got a peaceful planet where old blokes get around in

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dresses and everyone, yeah, really awful high waisted skirty

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dresses and the TARDIS going on holidays, so they drop Patty off

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onto a beach again.

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And it's a nice little holiday, but then it turns out to have been

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an island that's a nuclear testing ground and then a really groovy

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woo-woo spaceship, which is actually a jelly mould and is

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admitted.

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My Jack Kite's department to be of jelly.

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Yeah, it was a jelly juicer.

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Yeah, it was a jelly moult because they ran out because they

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were...

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BBC effects boys.

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There were only a few of them and they were having to do every

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single thing, you know, getting a bit cross.

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But you will use a geling mould.

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It was almost to the point of that.

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But the interior said that the ship was really gorgeous.

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Well, it's very new breeders.

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Yes, and they're spectacular.

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Well, they're they're certainly they're very bondy and they're

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very kubricky and they're very kind of lattice-like and there's

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lots going on in there, which is really useful because you can

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look at the sets instead of paying attention to the to the plot

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which is the same scripture, you know, each and every episode just

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rebooted.

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So that this journey mould lands on a deserted island, which turns

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out to be radioactive, and their 1st act of consciousness and

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kindness is actually to soak up all the radiation because their

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ships are driven by this stuff.

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So it's not really explicit in the story, is it?

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But that's what they do.

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And then they step out as Joan and Jackie Collins because they've

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both got the same race that cut their juice and shoulder pads that

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defy description unless you know the K1 giant robot from Tom

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Baker's 1st story and you go, oh, okay, that's what that's.

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Can we just go back to the beginning for a 2nd?

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Because it's a season opener.

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And so they start with this spectacular, spectacular special

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effect sequence, which is a fleet of flying sources that look just

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truly terrible.

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And then the flying saucer lands with Joan and Jack.

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And jacket teeth.

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They've got jacket teeth.

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Well, in fact, one of them is the guy who just, a year later, we'll

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play Professor Cornish.

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And he'll be spectacularly handsome in that.

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But he's also in Inferno as, as a reader on, there's one of the

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voices is the, yeah, the voice of the computer.

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He's sitting around just reading stuff out.

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Yeah, and he's, and he was later on, was it crossroads or one of

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the soaps?

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Crossroads, he was very bad.

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Yeah, and he's got a phone still a bit dashing and super smart.

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He's actually a really clever bloke.

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Here he just looks like he's had a few really seriously late

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nights and he's been...

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I think Selena Nemoy approach.

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The only way you can make it through the days to be completely

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inebriated.

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He said that on trek. his last season, he was drunk pretty much

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for every shooting.

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Well, that was just working with Shad.

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Kind of the same thing.

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They've also got, yeah, they've also got Jagged teeth.

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So I think there's a nice thing that I think that's the paint

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that's slightly jagged teeth.

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So I think they're actually all related to what's his face off

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darlic master plan.

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This is the one...

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Thank you.

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And they've got 2 hearts.

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They do have to. because they're really surprised that Jamie's

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only got one heart. and I think the Dolchians, however, he's used

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to that.

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So in fact, they're probably all just like the minions.

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They're probably all seeded from the early colonial days of time

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mordiness.

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Because the doctor actually has been here before and thinks

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they're going to have a nice holiday on the beach.

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So really, maybe this is all a bit of a payback and there's more

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look, I'm desperately looking for things that are more interesting

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than it's actually going on on this.

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No, there's stuff underneath.

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We're going give me their radiation. you know, Oh, yeah, and we're

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going to drill out the world's core because that's what we've

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might maybe done before.

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They going to try and get at the magna and a radiator.

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Have you noticed that this shop called the Dominators, and I hope

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that that's actually the racial prescription of these guys, and

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that's what they do.

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They conquer 10 galaxies, which is are not bad.

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So a lot of jelly moles.

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I quite like that they seem to be bragging because in one episode

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they talk about conquering 10 galaxies and then they say they're

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the master of a galaxy for next episode.

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And when they say 10 galaxies, they're talking to the Dolcians and

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when they say one galaxy, they're talking to each other.

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So it's like, obviously, yeah, we say this to impress people.

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In the 60s galaxy, because nation is Terry Nations notorious for

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this, but it seems that people were not so familiar with the

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correct terminology.

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And galaxy and solar system were kind of interchangeable.

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Or constellation.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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It's just, which is actually an arrangement seen from here of

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stars in space.

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Constellation is your interpretation.

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But yeah, these boys are kind of, well, you know, one in 10, it's

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just a decimal point, isn't it?

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between friends?

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What is it about the dominators that is slightly interesting?

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Yeah, okay.

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There's a race of blokes.

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Do they have wives?

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They never see any women.

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And what would they be called?

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Right, go.

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Yeah, dominaterixes.

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I think the 2 of them are married over and like...

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I don't think there's any females in their room.

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No, no, they think of like a married couple, you know, they fight

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over things and stuff, you know, I think...

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The women are either inside their robots that will get to, but I

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actually think the females are their species of the dramas. that's

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what's going on.

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They've got dominators and drafts going, hate you.

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No, I hate you.

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I hate you.

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Well, that would be why the Dragons kill their nails.

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Yeah, they're no use at all.

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And it's...

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It's totally proven in this story.

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And you see like all bitter and incriminating divorces.

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The driver's got the crap spaceships.

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And these boys got the whizzo.

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Even the doctor says, this is terribly advanced, really quite good

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and it is. really, really super duper space set thing.

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They also have robots.

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And these robots do us that were going to be the bigo wacko money

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making thing after the Daleks that we don't know anymore.

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That's all these bite off.

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And what are they?

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Okay, they're meant to be terribly terrifying.

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Of course, like Chungli's, they're actually little schoolboys

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inside robot suits so they could be small, but their voices are

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also like small children and a Japanese ad.

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Sheila Dunn.

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I believe in Sheila Dunn. wife of Dr. Canfield provides them.

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Wow.

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Yeah, yeah, it was, it threw a Boko dot.

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So Sheila Dunn will do, um, She'll be the receptionist next story

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in the, uh, story after that.

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Invasion, which she'll be Petra.

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Again, directed by Dougie.

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And she's great in Inferno.

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She's fabulous.

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So she does the voices.

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But essentially, it's a toddler bane.

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Oh, really?

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Sheila Gill.

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Yeah, I didn't have thought it was because she didn't do it.

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But anyway, these things are 4 foot.

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They're painted green, metallic.

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Well, not metallic green, some British race and green.

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It's chocophane nail to a shoot.

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It is really.

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With green macaroni on their heads.

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Christmas decorator.

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They are actually Minecraft designed Christmas decorations.

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They've got sort of, they're meant to be like a battery box and

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they're unbelievably powerful, but they're also largely pants.

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Why don't they keep running out of power?

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It's like, oh, we mustn't use the quiet to do anything.

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I like the way they recharge by flapping their arms.

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But they're going to run out of battery so we can't use them for

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anything.

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I mean, it really is just, look, however, I still signed with the

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invaders because the dolkians, the dolkians.

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So bloody pants.

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Old blokes in frocks saying, you know what this is about?

252
00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:44.700
Okay.

253
00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:46.259
No, it is in this one.

254
00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.879
It's like old folk being ineffectual. why this story is so

255
00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.179
freaking embarrassing even at the time, is really interesting.

256
00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:56.460
This is the only probably interesting thing for me about this

257
00:10:56.460 --> 00:10:56.820
story.

258
00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:58.200
Do you remember appeasement?

259
00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:02.700
We've talked about Neville Chamberlain in the 30s who at this time

260
00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:06.899
was seen as, you know, if Britain hadn't gone to war, you know, the

261
00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:08.220
whole Europe would have fallen.

262
00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:09.480
Yeah, but that's not how people saw it.

263
00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:12.899
At the time, it was, if we have another war, we remember the last

264
00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:14.159
one, it will destroy everything.

265
00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:19.200
Now in 1938, when Chamberlain was still organising, was it the

266
00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.039
Munich agreement?

267
00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:23.159
Yeah, that actually allowed British sea power to build up, if

268
00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.000
they'd gone to war a year before, when Germany was at its 1st

269
00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.059
stage of expansionism in 38, they would have lost the war, America

270
00:11:30.059 --> 00:11:34.200
would not have even noticed, and by 4041, Europe would have been a

271
00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:35.279
completely different map.

272
00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:37.320
So you're saying it's mocking appeasement.

273
00:11:37.379 --> 00:11:40.259
Well, I'm just going to get to that because at this point, we've

274
00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:42.840
got the same mirror with Vietnam.

275
00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:46.259
We've got the Vietnam War, and the only reason that people are

276
00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:49.379
opposing that, as we've discussed before, it's on the telly, you

277
00:11:49.379 --> 00:11:49.740
can see it.

278
00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:52.080
Now, Noman Hazman and Henry Lincoln.

279
00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:55.080
I am not stretching a boat because they've been interviewed in Dr

280
00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:56.340
Himanti back in the day.

281
00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:00.539
They were actually against appeasement and they were they were for

282
00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:03.480
the domino effect, which you remember is the Lyndon Bay Johnson

283
00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:08.100
thing of if one place, if one city, one country falls to communism

284
00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:11.159
the rest of the Pacific will fall, and then so shall we.

285
00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:13.320
We've had the Bay of Pigs, we've got Cuba.

286
00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.120
This is just going to escalate.

287
00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:18.120
These boys were actually saying, haven't you noticed that the

288
00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.360
hippies are all just drugged out and wearing a hideous, terrible

289
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:21.779
clothes?

290
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.639
have mismatched fibres.

291
00:12:23.700 --> 00:12:25.080
Very lubiticum.

292
00:12:25.139 --> 00:12:28.259
So the whole point of this is to say that we should actually

293
00:12:28.259 --> 00:12:32.759
oppose what's happening in Europe is, you know, Czechoslovakia, you

294
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:34.799
know, have fallen to Russia though.

295
00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.279
But then after that, between the writing of this story and the

296
00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:40.559
stuff that we were getting on the news, this just looked really

297
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:41.220
embarrassing.

298
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:46.320
Yeah, it's a viciously right wing and it's actually Vietnam

299
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:46.799
thing.

300
00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.519
And it, fortunately...

301
00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:52.259
Yeah, yeah, anti-Vietnam.

302
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:56.580
So 1968 is the absolute hide of like anti-Vietnam.

303
00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.200
Yeah, the term offensive, we'd see.

304
00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:00.899
And so there's a few ways they try and twist it.

305
00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:06.480
Firstly, like the Dulcians are pacifists and he presents them as

306
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.179
being completely decadent and completely worthless.

307
00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:12.720
Their computers are designed so they don't even have to bother to

308
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:13.620
press the buttons on it.

309
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.320
They just sort of wave their hands effeatly about it.

310
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:18.960
The Dulcins have them, not the Dulcins.

311
00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:22.799
The dominators have the Dulcians lifting Styrofoam rocks as part

312
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:23.879
of the mining effort.

313
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:26.220
It's going to be a major effect shop, that episode.

314
00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.879
They're too they're too weak and ineffective to do that properly

315
00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:31.379
and they all sort of collapse.

316
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.879
So everyone's completely decadent and worthless and everyone's

317
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:36.720
wearing a dress.

318
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.279
And, you know, so the idea of a society that has advanced beyond

319
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:42.840
the need for war or weapons.

320
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:49.860
That's sort of viciously lampooned by the writers and seen it in a

321
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:50.940
completely negative light.

322
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.480
But it's just done so incompetently.

323
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.259
And fortunately, it's been kind of eviscerated by the script

324
00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:01.019
editor, which is why they pull their names off it.

325
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.379
So it doesn't end up being quite as offensive as it should be and

326
00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:05.940
it's just sort of nearly bad.

327
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.379
But it is really nasty and mean-spirited, and it undermines itself

328
00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:15.419
because the dominators who managed to defeat the Dulcians by using

329
00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:20.700
violence are villains, you know, like it just stupidly fails to

330
00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:25.379
work as an allegory because they're villains, but it is just it's

331
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:27.000
ridiculously nasty.

332
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:34.259
How it needed to be done. was we shouldn't have had a decadent

333
00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:35.820
peaceful culture.

334
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:38.700
We should have had a peaceful culture and had that established for

335
00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:41.820
a cool episode and actually been going, yeah, you know, we want to

336
00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:42.360
live here.

337
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:45.539
This place looks great and then have it attacked and it should

338
00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:48.299
have been about the morality of you must fight for what you

339
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:49.559
believe in when it's directed.

340
00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:53.100
The Daleks has that scene where Ian goes the files into fighting.

341
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:56.340
And it is sort of slightly problematic and, you know, like it is a

342
00:14:56.340 --> 00:15:00.120
little bit for worry, but, you know, the style's habiting them to

343
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:00.539
fight.

344
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:04.620
But the Dolcians are just awfully, horribly west.

345
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:07.200
And you know, like maybe they thought they were being funny or

346
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:12.539
subversive by having the hippies be old people and the rebellious

347
00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:15.480
young Cully, who is young.

348
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.039
Well, he's in perfect comments.

349
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:18.000
He's 34.

350
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:19.980
So is that your one?

351
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:23.039
Well, I would say yes, you might not say that.

352
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:27.120
He, actually, Kali, who's played by Arthur Cox, will actually

353
00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.480
appear 42 years later in the 11th hour.

354
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.759
Yes, and it will be... that Amy Pond slams the doctor's tie.

355
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:36.779
Adorable.

356
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.240
And so he does come back.

357
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:40.919
Interesting sort of point there.

358
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.960
Note that the doctor then goes for a bow tie, which can't be

359
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:44.700
slightly different.

360
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.000
But he's sort of the fat and balding sort of rebel without a cause

361
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.220
but he thinks that they should be fighting.

362
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.379
Zoe thinks they should be fighting.

363
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:53.700
Jamie thinks they should be fighting.

364
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.259
The doctor thinks they should be fighting.

365
00:15:55.320 --> 00:16:01.320
Like, in every case, the Dulcians are being portrayed as as, you

366
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:06.720
know, unrealistic and ineffectual and, you know, like no match, but

367
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:11.879
instead of terrible, terrible threat posed by Mr. and Mrs. Rego

368
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:13.620
the 2 evil marinators.

369
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.139
Yeah, this is the one where Patty quit, don't you?

370
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:20.460
You remember the story, the huge blowup, the huge Barney on the

371
00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:20.700
set.

372
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:22.559
He wasn't really coping with it.

373
00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:25.919
And this is all from Derek Sherwin, who said that, you know, all

374
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.080
Patty did was moan, mo, moan.

375
00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:29.340
This is Sherwin.

376
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.759
And he said, you know, I'm quoting directly, Sherman would say, you

377
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.100
know, he'd make complaints about scripts and dialogue.

378
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:37.500
And I'd say to him, look, Patrick, I'm an actor, you're an actor.

379
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:39.600
If I don't like dialogue, I change it, change it.

380
00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:43.139
But, um, you know, that Patrick, you know, was exhausted, and as

381
00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:45.840
we were saying, 40, you just didn't have the time to go through

382
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.779
the lovely rep experience of being able to have all of that

383
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:49.379
rehearsal.

384
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:53.399
Anyway, Sherman adds it got to the state where there was a huge

385
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:56.820
bus stop in the studio floor and they were recording when

386
00:16:56.820 --> 00:16:59.340
recording stopped, which he just never did in those days.

387
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:04.740
And Patrick called out, Peter, come down here, come down here

388
00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:05.339
now.

389
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:08.579
There was God awful confrontation between Bryant and Trouton.

390
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.180
Everybody in the studio could hear it and Patrick finally said, I'm

391
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:13.200
resigning, I'm going.

392
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:16.019
And Peter Bryant said, no, you're not. firing you.

393
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:17.039
And that was it.

394
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:18.599
And that was it.

395
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:19.319
That was the end.

396
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:22.740
But he said, this is enough. 42 bloody half hour shows and you're

397
00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:23.099
killing me.

398
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:24.720
So that was it.

399
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:29.279
And they wrote off and it's this kind of, I can get why that would

400
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.680
have happened to this.

401
00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:35.339
Look, I think I think by the end of it, it's it becomes fairly

402
00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:37.920
generic and it's about stopping the dominators blowing up their

403
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:38.880
bomb and all of that.

404
00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:40.079
And that's all right.

405
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:40.980
Do you know what I mean?

406
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:41.819
That's kind of okay.

407
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.579
But gee whiz, it's just long up to land.

408
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:45.660
And you know what?

409
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:50.039
It undoes a lot of the very careful work from the previous

410
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:50.759
season.

411
00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:54.779
You know, in the previous season, we slowly had women's parts

412
00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:57.779
being built up to be much, much stronger.

413
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.819
You know, you look at Betty Kaftan compared to and Travis...

414
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:07.559
But you compare her to Anne Travers or Tanya Lern of, who are sort

415
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.039
of shaded characters with different motivations, whereas Betty

416
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.700
Catan, as well as she was playing, was just written as an ethnic

417
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:15.180
villain.

418
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:15.720
Yeah.

419
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:16.319
You know?

420
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:18.299
And you compare that to this.

421
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.500
You've got one guest female character, Kando, who's a bit wet.

422
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.720
Which is virtually an Eloy, isn't she?

423
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:26.279
And also...

424
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.960
The Dolcians are presented as wet and defeat.

425
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.880
And what's the visual shorthand for that?

426
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.259
They're wearing dresses.

427
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.059
Yeah, and they were the hippies.

428
00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:38.880
And the hippies were, you know, we've seen them as being all cute

429
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.980
and car culture and all the rest of it at the time they were

430
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.599
noisome and missing the point.

431
00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:44.279
And interestingly enough.

432
00:18:44.339 --> 00:18:47.400
As soon as Zoe needs to get changed into something.

433
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:51.000
Oh, well, you need to fit in so you must wear a dress as well.

434
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:53.099
You can't be wearing those space trousers.

435
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.980
This show's not just pro-colonial.

436
00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:57.180
It's pro-imperial.

437
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:58.019
Yeah, yeah.

438
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:59.819
And it's bloody awful.

439
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:01.920
I've never said that before.

440
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.240
I mean, that's the thing.

441
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:06.420
The production offers have forgotten that, yeah, okay, they're

442
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.579
making really, they're making Doctor Who for the kids and they're

443
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:09.480
making Doctor Who for family.

444
00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.779
But one of Doctor Whose biggest audiences was and remains.

445
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:15.900
You know, late teens, early 13 students.

446
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.579
Yeah, well, not in this one.

447
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.940
I think...

448
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.019
I didn't do all that well, do that?

449
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.960
I'm not surprised because, you know, all the students watching

450
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:25.980
would have gone, hold on.

451
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:27.720
They're taking the nick out of us.

452
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:29.819
Yeah, it's such a shame it's still in the archives.

453
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.500
It really is.

454
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:31.980
Oh, hang on.

455
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:33.299
I was getting around 6 million.

456
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.779
And gosh, 7.500000 for the 2nd last episode.

457
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:39.119
Really?

458
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:40.259
Yeah, people loved it.

459
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.779
Yeah, and just before we.

460
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:44.700
It does feel very trick, though, for something that came out

461
00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:46.740
before you...

462
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.519
It's something like that.

463
00:19:47.579 --> 00:19:50.039
It was like the savages. hang on, that was the opening.

464
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:51.539
That was the working title of this one.

465
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.180
But there were all those awful...

466
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:55.980
The same season, Trek episodes.

467
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.740
It is that thing where it's where the society or the whole

468
00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:02.339
situation is set up to deliver a moral lesson. in the way that the

469
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:02.940
savages was.

470
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.160
And it did remind me of the savages accept it's not good.

471
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:06.839
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

472
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:08.819
The savages, everyone learns that important lesson.

473
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.799
The dominators, no one learns anything.

474
00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:14.339
Pretty much the doctor spends 3 or 4 episodes trying to convince

475
00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:15.059
the Dolcians.

476
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.519
You must fight for yourselves and then says, oh, bloody, I'll do

477
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:18.180
it myself.

478
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.680
And then buckers off.

479
00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.680
Now, can I give a Latin lesson at this point?

480
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:24.119
Because I've been longing to do this.

481
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:27.900
So the planet Dulcus, that's the word for sweet inland.

482
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.480
And so the yeah, like Dolshit in Italian.

483
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:33.599
And so the Dulcians, that's why it changes from a K's worth of C

484
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.599
because Latin didn't have K, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

485
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:40.619
And then the leader, Cully's father, is called Senex, which just

486
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:43.680
every schoolboy in the audience and schoolgirl would have known

487
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.880
men. old man.

488
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:48.779
And then his 2nd in command who's like sort of, you know, will do

489
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:50.819
anything that he's told and all of that sort of thing.

490
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.279
It's called Bovem, which means ox.

491
00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:57.480
I hope that increases your enjoyment and appreciation of this

492
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:57.779
story.

493
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.119
It doesn't, but it was a valiant episode.

494
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:03.779
Doesn't Cully also have a Latin?

495
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:10.440
can we Let's let's just take off from Dolphins.

496
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:14.519
The volcano's exploding around us, so it's time to have our brains

497
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.819
drained as if they weren't already by this piece of drain, which

498
00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:18.960
are mind drama.

499
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:28.500
So that starts with, like, a kind of a phrase where the volcanos

500
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:29.819
going off, and the most...

501
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:31.079
Which made of fun of it.

502
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.180
We have the BBC phone machine again.

503
00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:38.039
We had seen that in 1986, but we had no idea, like what had

504
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:38.880
happened or anything like that?

505
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:39.599
Exactly.

506
00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:43.619
And that's why for an Australian fan, the dominators is doubly

507
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.259
disappointing because it has this mythic status of how did we get

508
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:50.400
to this volcanic eruption by the most dull and insulting men than

509
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:50.759
possible.

510
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:51.779
That's the answer.

511
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.759
Richard, the mind robber.

512
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:58.019
Mind robbers, a whole other story in the whole other set of ways.

513
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.980
Well, okay.

514
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:02.640
We'll go back to Derek Sherman, who was saying, he hand chose

515
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.460
Peter Ling for his other writing work, Peter Ling being the

516
00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:08.880
writing of the story, and said, and Peter said, look, I'm Ling

517
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.680
said, I'm not a science fiction writer.

518
00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:11.880
I've seen Doctor Who.

519
00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:12.660
That's what I do.

520
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.759
And he said, no, no, you're a good writer.

521
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:17.160
You write about fables and narrative of people.

522
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:18.180
You write about stories.

523
00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:22.799
This Doctor Who is a children's show fundamentally and foremost

524
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.960
and we kind of forget that now, that's how it's still being

525
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:25.920
pitched in the 60s.

526
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:29.819
He said, I want you to write a story that you would write if you

527
00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:30.900
were writing for children.

528
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.839
And I don't think about SF.

529
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:38.039
Think about Doctor Who as the opening up of children's imagination

530
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.660
as much as they open up a book.

531
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.640
And he took it literally.

532
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:45.240
So we went and referenced lots of other children's books and

533
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.759
children's characters and there's lots of Edith Nesty, the

534
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.579
children in this are, you know, I keep going back to Edith Nest

535
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:52.980
but they're the 5 kids from 5 children indeed.

536
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.900
So they end up in this space.

537
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.400
But what's the best thing about this story?

538
00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:59.339
It was written for 4 episodes and produced for 4 episodes.

539
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.680
But you don't get that.

540
00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:06.779
You get a beautiful point of an extra episode of the top of it

541
00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:09.240
because they cut out one of the dominators because they just

542
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:10.380
couldn't add it any further.

543
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.460
So we got an extra story with no budget, no script, and no

544
00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:15.420
supporting cast.

545
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.900
All you've got are the 3 leagues, the TARTA set, and whatever else

546
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:20.039
you can scround around.

547
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:25.500
So Sherman went home and he said in the space of 48 hours wrote it

548
00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:26.400
and you can kind of believe it.

549
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.660
I wonder if George Lucas saw this before he made THX 1138.

550
00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:33.599
Because what you end up with is something that's really hoopy and

551
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:35.160
post-Dovid Bowie.

552
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:38.039
You end up with a white cyclor armour on a void set.

553
00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:41.759
Isn't really something, as far as I can tell that people did back

554
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:42.180
then.

555
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:43.799
It was just a pretty bold thing.

556
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.460
You might have got it in pop video stuff, but even then you'd have

557
00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:50.759
something spangly hanging that, you know, dusty could swoon around

558
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:51.359
in front of.

559
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:56.039
You haven't, this is a super white set of a super void of, in the

560
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:58.619
same way that we had a universe that should have been like this

561
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:02.460
with celestial toy maker, the TARDIS has to jump outside of time

562
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:05.279
and space, and it's the only time in this incarnation that you see

563
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.759
the doctor really worried about doing something like this with the

564
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:09.359
TARDIS.

565
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.420
He's actually quite disturbed about having to flick this switch

566
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:15.599
and take us out of the known universe because he knows what

567
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:16.440
monsters be there.

568
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:20.579
So this is part of what eventually becomes a sort of occasional

569
00:24:20.579 --> 00:24:22.440
tradition, isn't it, in Doctor Who.

570
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:25.140
And it does start with a celestial toy maker, but not very

571
00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:25.980
auspiciously.

572
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.880
And you can see celestial toy maker does the sort of iconography

573
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.539
of the children's, like of Victorian children's games and

574
00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:35.519
Victorian children's literature.

575
00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:40.380
It has the, you know, the king and queen playing cards from Alice

576
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:43.259
in Wonderland and that sort of thing, you know.

577
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.539
So it's kind of like a rehearsal for that.

578
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.579
There's something smarter about this.

579
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:50.339
Smarter. levels in this one, yeah.

580
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.039
Yeah, and it does have a, it does have a proper plot.

581
00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:56.700
Whereas celestial toymaker was sort of clearly marking time.

582
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.700
It is, you know, really remarkably similar.

583
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.000
And I guess, like, what would you say the analogues for it were?

584
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:05.099
It doesn't really come up again in per tweet.

585
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:06.839
But greater show in the galaxy.

586
00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:07.859
Yeah, very much.

587
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.380
Which is also about fictionality and stuff.

588
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.400
There is.

589
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.160
It's great showing the Galaxy was going to say the 3 doctors.

590
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:19.859
Oh okay. when you've got the whole idea of the void universe and

591
00:25:19.859 --> 00:25:24.000
that William Blaikian style of there being a fictional universe

592
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:24.960
beyond our universe.

593
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:28.380
It's very much remembrance of the daleks when we finally get to

594
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.319
the master of the land of fiction, who's actually turns that up

595
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:34.920
the bloke running this realm, turns out to be an old writer who

596
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:38.819
himself wrote comics based on the real person, the master.

597
00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:42.059
It's lovely to think that if message is the real master, but

598
00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:45.539
Paddy's reactions aren't exactly what you would expect at first.

599
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.460
Although he says master, the new question.

600
00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:51.539
But no, it's an old bloke based on a man called Frank Richards, who

601
00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:54.960
was actually Charles Hamilton, who wrote the magnet comic Billy

602
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.259
Buncher, who, of course, is...

603
00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:00.420
Cyril, the fact that he's in...

604
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:03.420
Terrible, which I can't say...

605
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:04.140
Do you know the thing?

606
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:05.519
Oh, look, this lovely thing.

607
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:06.180
This lovely thing.

608
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:07.259
Okay, you've got 3 doctors.

609
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.480
I think he's actually Jasmine Brokes.

610
00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:12.660
Justin, the same way, the remembrance of the Dalek, you've got

611
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:16.619
little blonde kid under the industrial motorcycle hairdryer.

612
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.000
You've got the mask.

613
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.099
You've got the master and his little skull cap in this one.

614
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.599
It's also, if you're interested in the Frank Richards thing, he

615
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:28.740
wrote, you remember the master says that he wrote like 5000 words

616
00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:33.299
a week for like 20 years or something or, you know, and it's some

617
00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:35.519
extraordinary announcement words that he wrote.

618
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:41.640
There is a really, really interesting and clever analysis of his

619
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:46.799
writing by George Orwell, like in an...

620
00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:47.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

621
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:53.339
In an essay called Boys Weeklies from 1940, and Orwell assumes

622
00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:57.359
that because these stories about Greyfrock, I, it's called Grey

623
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:57.720
Fries.

624
00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:59.220
It's the name of the school or something like that.

625
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:00.000
I can't remember.

626
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.980
But the Billy Bunger stories.

627
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:06.900
He just thinks that the there are so many and the style is so sort

628
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:09.299
of generic and it's been going for so many decades.

629
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.900
He just assumes that it's a pseudonym for a whole bunch of

630
00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:15.240
different writers who are writing in a particular style.

631
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.420
And he actually corrects himself in a footnote to say, no, this

632
00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:21.119
guy just is just writing and writing and writing.

633
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:24.480
But like literally decades, he wrote in the magnet magazine from

634
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:28.859
1908 to 1940 and just a story every week.

635
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:31.440
And Peter Lee had a similar career.

636
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:35.220
And you can see this is a real little knot to how awful it is to

637
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:36.420
have to be a hack writer.

638
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.339
So in the same way.

639
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.839
But I want to talk also about the universe where this occurs

640
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:43.980
because this is actually interesting.

641
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.519
Have you noticed that it could actually be a construct either of

642
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.380
the eternals or the cause of Ragnarok?

643
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.980
Or it could actually be a tharyl construct because you've got the

644
00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:57.299
same white void where imagination and ideas.

645
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:01.799
You've got the same white void where imagination and ideas

646
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.339
construct the world, just as you do in Warrior's Gate.

647
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.660
In fact, I think I think that there is something slightly 60s and

648
00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:11.700
disappointing about this in that.

649
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.779
It's revealed to be a megalomaniacal computer in charge of it, and

650
00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:18.420
the computer has control rooms.

651
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.180
It is, but it's like the great intelligence has to have a control

652
00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:21.839
room as well.

653
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:27.059
But the thing is, it's playing with the 60s idea.

654
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:30.119
Yes, it has to be a computer because this is 60.

655
00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.000
And because that's what 60s fiction is.

656
00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:34.140
And that's what James Bond does.

657
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.480
Yeah, that's what big films do, yeah.

658
00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:40.500
Yes, villains are German and muscle bound and have disintegrated

659
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:42.599
rays and costumes are like skeletons.

660
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.660
Yes, Rapunzels are flirt because she's waiting for a prince.

661
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:49.680
Yes, robots are ill defined and based on childhood fears.

662
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.619
This is one I absolutely love.

663
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:54.539
Rod hates into.

664
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:55.079
Really?

665
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:57.539
I think this is the point.

666
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.119
I want to say metalipsis.

667
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.220
It's one of those things.

668
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:03.420
It's one of those stories.

669
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:04.500
It's not so much about itself.

670
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:05.460
It's about what it's about.

671
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.460
It's a thing about other things and it's interesting.

672
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.460
But if you look at it just straight on, Yeah, probably isn't that

673
00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:12.359
exciting or interesting.

674
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:14.640
But Doctor Who fans, it's really interesting.

675
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:17.880
I remember being shocked by how cheap it looked because it was the

676
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.920
1st 6 doctor who I ever saw.

677
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:20.279
Oh, really?

678
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:20.519
Yeah.

679
00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:22.619
I remember being horrified.

680
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.640
It was the 1st 60s, 1st black and white Doctor Who. because as a

681
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:28.680
child, I didn't like watching black and white television.

682
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:30.599
No, no, well...

683
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.980
I thought it was fantastic when I 1st saw it in 86 and...

684
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.039
And I liked it because it was tripping at all those other things.

685
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:40.440
Yeah, and it's got Christopher Robbie with his hands on his hips.

686
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.759
Absolutely.

687
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:42.480
Do you know what I'm saying?

688
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.799
Be outside the controller.

689
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:45.720
He's always doing the same kind of thing.

690
00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.960
I'm looking pretty, pretty well smashing any sort of tight season

691
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:53.039
Robert, rippy up. and he gets thrown around by Freddie Padre and

692
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.460
the deal later on, which is, again, lampooning a whole other

693
00:29:56.460 --> 00:29:56.819
thing.

694
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.619
It does every show and every story.

695
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.380
And Wendy actually does a really good job with it.

696
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:02.339
She had a weak strain.

697
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.720
Yeah, she said I was quite nervous, but Christopher threw himself

698
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:07.019
around.

699
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:07.980
It was wonderful.

700
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.259
So you it's so many stories in that one, aren't there?

701
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.720
Such a joyful experience after the dominators because even though

702
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:21.000
the plot may be scarce and repetitive, it's Doctor Who having

703
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:21.480
fun.

704
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:26.339
Yeah, and after the previous year. where it wasn't, it had stopped

705
00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:29.819
adventuring and it had stopped doing things that it hadn't tried

706
00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:30.299
before.

707
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.660
This is really an incredible breadth of fresh air.

708
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:35.099
We were weird.

709
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:36.000
Yeah.

710
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:36.599
Well, weird.

711
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:39.480
And the 1st story, you really don't know what's going on in the

712
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:39.779
title.

713
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.319
You know, it was originally shot as Jamie and Zoe and the console

714
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.740
just flicker out of existence from the console room and Patrick

715
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:50.279
was meant to be lying there in a comatose state, but they

716
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.559
considered that to be too frightening.

717
00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:54.779
I think apparently they shot it, but they thought it was too

718
00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:55.619
frightening for the children.

719
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.119
At home.

720
00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:58.559
I don't see why it would have been amazing.

721
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.059
It's pretty amazing what we have.

722
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:01.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

723
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:03.240
Did the TARDIS appears to disappear?

724
00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:06.660
What I like is that you can see this story is like an episode of

725
00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:10.440
the prisoner, really, which by now had been seen, of all of this

726
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.539
is actually happening in the character's imaginations.

727
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:16.920
And really, very rarely, it is because the cockwork soldiers, Jamie

728
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.740
doesn't contribute much, but they're obviously red coats.

729
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.440
And they're obviously in another playoff side and then he's

730
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:24.299
constantly having to revisit that notion.

731
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:28.079
Zoe, obviously, with the Crocus, that's from her childhood, from

732
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:28.740
the year 2000.

733
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:32.220
But it's fair enough to say that that was an old comic being read

734
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:33.660
broadcasts.

735
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.000
Patrick doesn't know.

736
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:38.880
Yeah, the doc, where does the doctor's fantasies things slip in?

737
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:42.059
Well, of course, he knows Gulliver backwards to Franchi.

738
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:43.019
So...

739
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:48.119
Yeah, but those are things that kids are going to be aware.

740
00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:49.380
Yeah, you know what I mean?

741
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.880
That like Gulliver.

742
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:57.539
Again, did I mention that Dean Swift is in my enemies list?

743
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:58.559
Yes, yes, you did.

744
00:31:58.559 --> 00:31:58.740
Yeah.

745
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:02.519
Like Gulliver, you know, was a perennial kid's favourite, you know

746
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:03.240
Rapunzel.

747
00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:06.599
So it's all, it's all, you know, there's reference to little

748
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:07.019
women.

749
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:11.339
Yes, yeah, there's an extract read from...

750
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:14.339
We've got all those stories, Greek mythology, stuff you do at

751
00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:17.640
school, you know, the 1st bit of stop motion, proper animation.

752
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:20.880
Oh, it's the 1st John Friedlander spot in this one.

753
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:24.599
The Medusa head and the movie Wavy Snakes, the by John Friedland

754
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.359
who later gave us Darth Ross a whole lot of other groovy draconian

755
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:27.599
things.

756
00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:28.200
Oh, really?

757
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:28.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

758
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:30.299
It's his 1st work.

759
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.519
And it looks great because, you know, Harry Howson was doing all

760
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:35.279
those super Voyage of Tom Baker stories.

761
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:36.599
So this thing.

762
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.359
It's great because it's what some of your toy maker should have

763
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:39.599
been.

764
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:43.980
And it's not, it doesn't totally get there, of course, but it's so

765
00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:46.259
much better than what it could have been.

766
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.140
It's also the 1st appearance of Sir Bernard Horseball.

767
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.339
Yes.

768
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:51.660
Yes.

769
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:52.920
He should be.

770
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:57.359
Well, he also points taken off for, um, he's in diamonds forever.

771
00:32:57.420 --> 00:32:59.700
Yeah, everyone, everything awful as diamonds are forever.

772
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:00.960
No, it storms up forever.

773
00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:02.640
Yeah, that's right.

774
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:04.859
It's friend of the podcast, Gary Russell, who's an octopus.

775
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:05.460
Yes, exactly.

776
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.680
No, he does get points off repearing in that.

777
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:11.400
But he is he's pretty good in this with his sort of northern

778
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.039
accent and he's weird way of saying it.

779
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:16.440
He's not...

780
00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:18.720
It's really fun. really like him.

781
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:20.099
He's terrific.

782
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:24.180
And he appears several time lords and I think next, well, later

783
00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:27.480
this year, in fact, well, he sentenced the doctors were exiled.

784
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:31.079
Spoiler alert. sentence you to be John Pertwee.

785
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:33.000
Yes, that is cruel, isn't it?

786
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.559
No, you should have something in their constitution.

787
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:36.660
John Kurt, where you can be chubby check.

788
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:38.640
Matt Smith.

789
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:40.680
We didn't see all the other drawers. they threw up, did we?

790
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.400
No, no.

791
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.220
Can we mention Hamish Wilson?

792
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:48.359
Oh, of course, yeah. those you don't know out there, dear

793
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:48.839
listeners.

794
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:54.599
Just before recording episode two, Fraser Hines on the Monday of

795
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:56.819
rehearsals was diagnosed with chicken pox.

796
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:58.019
Well, that's what he tells everyone.

797
00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:01.920
Well, that's, you know, that's what Derek Sherwin says as well.

798
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:03.240
Of course, I was with other people.

799
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.779
But yeah, his doctor said, no, you can't be near anyone.

800
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:08.400
You have to put yourself in quarantine.

801
00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:11.460
And this was getting towards the end of the production block.

802
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.980
This was actually the last thing recorded in the production block

803
00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:15.960
so they couldn't delay recording.

804
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.039
The decision was made.

805
00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:19.920
Hold on, we're in a story where things can just pop in and out of

806
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:20.400
existence.

807
00:34:20.460 --> 00:34:21.179
Brilliant.

808
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:22.800
So you got a whole other actor doing it.

809
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.840
We'll have a whole...

810
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.780
Yeah, actually got it.

811
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.800
He's from Gl asking.

812
00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:31.139
He's Glaswegian.

813
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.079
He describes on the making of, you know, one of the challenges was

814
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:39.300
I in Glaswegian, but Fraser does an Anbrax, and so I sounded

815
00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:41.579
nothing like him, and I felt very bad about that.

816
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.880
It's like a Scotsman saying, yeah, my accent wasn't good enough

817
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.980
for the Englishman pretending to be Scottish.

818
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:52.980
There is a scene actually where he calls out and the doctor just

819
00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:56.099
thinks it's Jamie, even though it sounds nothing.

820
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:57.119
Yeah, absolutely.

821
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:00.539
I'm also quite amused by the fact that every time Wendy Patbury

822
00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:02.940
talks about it, says, would have liked to keep Hamish, actually

823
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.679
you have to change him back.

824
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:06.059
We didn't need Fraser.

825
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.460
She's cruel, isn't she?

826
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.920
She also would have got to keep her pants.

827
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:14.159
They didn't pants Wendy.

828
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:16.139
I think I think this one...

829
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.960
I think this might have actually been the story where during

830
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:23.579
rehearsal, Wendy fell asleep and she was wearing a skirt that had

831
00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:26.820
clasps on the side and they undid the clasps and said, wake up

832
00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:27.179
patterns.

833
00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:28.139
It's time for your scene.

834
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:32.519
And she jumped up and ran out of the waiting room, wearing only

835
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:34.739
own knickers and who should walk in, but the vicar.

836
00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:38.340
Because they would rehearse in an old church hall and she

837
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:40.980
curtseyed and said, good morning, Vicar, and ran back to get her

838
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:41.400
skirt.

839
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:43.500
That's delightful.

840
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:48.840
That's why none of these people. 60s in a box, isn't it?

841
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:49.139
Really?

842
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:50.940
where it's always things.

843
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:54.780
It's worth watching for the things that it does.

844
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:59.280
I mean, even though it's playing with the, and it's the 1st time

845
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:02.159
I'm going to use this word, and I think about 5 podcasts, that's

846
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.400
playing with the trotes of Dr. Cat.

847
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:11.159
Even though it is, I do think, you know, at the end where it

848
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:13.619
suddenly and we're going to invade Earth.

849
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.019
Men will become like a string of sausages.

850
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:19.320
That was one of Rod's big problems and it is kind of a thing

851
00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:22.500
that's what pissed me off with otherwise amazing power of three.

852
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:28.619
And I love that story with, you know, with Matt Smith and with the

853
00:36:28.619 --> 00:36:29.519
father and son too.

854
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

855
00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:32.219
Rory and Rory and...

856
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.440
Brian Martin playing his dad Brian.

857
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.380
It was such a big story and they ended up like finishing up every

858
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:38.820
bloody story of Voyager.

859
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.820
We just end up on an alien bridge and it's an invasion or some

860
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:42.719
sort of other plan.

861
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:44.039
He's a real...

862
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:45.300
Voyage alien.

863
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:46.920
Yeah, well, that's what I was saying before.

864
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:51.480
Like, I still think, you know, when it comes to greatest show in

865
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:55.320
the galaxy, it will be caused by gods and magic stones and that

866
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:55.860
kind of thing.

867
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:56.820
Much more fun.

868
00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:00.179
Yeah, but here there has to be sort of some crummy science fiction

869
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:02.400
thing and there has to be some threat to earth.

870
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:07.320
And it's the same as the abominable snowman, which is abominable

871
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.280
snowman and the yesi, where it's a disembodied intelligence that

872
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.639
can possess people and do anything, but it feels compelled to make

873
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:18.360
them make sad 60s futuristic control rooms.

874
00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:23.400
And it is, there is a kind of only narrow range within which

875
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:25.920
Doctor Who operates in this era.

876
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:31.500
And the mind robber does a far, far better job than most of

877
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:34.860
escaping from that range, but just the dead weight of science

878
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:37.800
fiction kind of pulls it back to be a particular sort of thing

879
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:38.460
towards the end.

880
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:39.539
Absolutely.

881
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.800
And it feels so strange, simply because Earth has not really been

882
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.659
involved until this point.

883
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:48.900
Except, you know, all the fiction comes from Earth, which is

884
00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:49.739
understandable.

885
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.860
But, Yeah, Earth hasn't even been involved.

886
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:54.659
And then suddenly we're going to invade Earth.

887
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:56.340
So use the power of man's imagination.

888
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:59.460
It's like, well, that's completely in variance with what's

889
00:37:59.460 --> 00:37:59.940
happened before.

890
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.199
Rod described it as we have 5 episodes of padding, followed by

891
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:05.820
only going to invade Earth because why not?

892
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:06.840
Yeah, yeah.

893
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.900
Yeah, no, I can see how that would, you know, and that's that's

894
00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:13.739
pretty similar to my assessment of celestial toy maker, you know

895
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:16.199
that that is just wall to wall padding.

896
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:17.940
Yeah, even from the invasion of Earth.

897
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.579
But I think this one has a sort of structure and a quest structure

898
00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:20.880
and stuff.

899
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:23.159
It does seem to be better structure.

900
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:26.579
Oh, yeah, I think it's actually got a plot, and it's got a

901
00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:28.800
beginning, a middle, and an end, and it does repeat the sort of

902
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:29.280
constant.

903
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.539
Oh, a fictional character.

904
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:35.039
We have to say they don't exist, but it still has development.

905
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:35.940
Yeah.

906
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:39.960
You know, um, whereas the repetition of having to go through

907
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:43.380
various tasks as a less people toy maker just feels like we need

908
00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:44.219
to fill 3 episodes.

909
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.960
You know, they.

910
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:51.179
I just had a memory of like a flashback of that stupid story and

911
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:52.380
the rhymes and everything.

912
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.019
Goodness, that's awful. never recover.

913
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:56.940
Never, I tell you.

914
00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:00.480
Anything else on?

915
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:02.099
No, I've already passed on.

916
00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:07.500
All right, so you go and read Five Children indeed.

917
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:09.960
If you want to get this story, go and read, and don't listen to

918
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:11.820
him, because Gol of Us Travels actually has really interesting

919
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:14.340
satire and political comedy.

920
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.079
But he's on the...

921
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:17.039
I like his pro style.

922
00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:17.940
Yeah, look.

923
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:20.280
No, no, I enjoy the book enormously, but there's a middle bit

924
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.619
where it's a floating island full of scientists.

925
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:27.360
And Swift, who is a clergyman, mocks the scientists.

926
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:31.019
And, you know, all his satire is about science and you kind of

927
00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:35.159
think, sweetheart, you are massively on the losing side of this

928
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:35.579
battle.

929
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:39.539
But scientists at the time are also jumping in on the whole.

930
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:42.360
In fact, David Whittaker's an 18th century scientist because it's

931
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:43.739
all alchemy and woo-woo.

932
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:45.900
Oh, my stuff.

933
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:48.179
But he also, the Yahoos.

934
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.280
You know, these primitive, appalling.

935
00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:50.880
What's the quote?

936
00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:51.599
I've written it down.

937
00:39:51.659 --> 00:39:52.380
I looked it up.

938
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:56.820
The Yahoos were disgusting primitive criminals. ruled over by an

939
00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:58.260
equine governance of horses.

940
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.519
It's the British royal family.

941
00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:02.219
The youngest princess Anne.

942
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:05.219
No, no, no, they're terrible.

943
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.780
Okay, well, I mean, it's all one culture.

944
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:10.079
But we're the yahoos and the royal family are ruling us how

945
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:10.679
awful.

946
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:13.380
I think there's lots in Swift, just like there's lots in the story

947
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:14.460
but you've got to look.

948
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:15.960
So the way I like watching this show.

949
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:17.039
It's not what it is.

950
00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:19.380
It's what it references and what you can find in it.

951
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.579
It's not linked to itself.

952
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:21.780
It's once you go under the surface.

953
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.920
Oh, no, no.

954
00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:23.880
It's a good book.

955
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:25.500
I'll admit this show.

956
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:27.239
By my mind, Robert, it's been love.

957
00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:28.079
Bye, bye, bye, bye.

958
00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:29.940
And bug eye production block five.

959
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.500
We head on...

960
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:33.420
Let the door fit your arse on.

961
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:39.960
Into the last production block of the 1960s. with the baby.

962
00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:48.599
Now, this is really good.

963
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:50.519
Isn't that nice?

964
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:53.820
Truth, this is good. and I love, I love this.

965
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:55.019
I love the animated version.

966
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.960
I love, um, there's a thing in Martin who wrote the Target novel.

967
00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:58.800
Yes.

968
00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.199
That's a Ripper, Boys and Girls.

969
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:04.079
And this is a river, and the animation versions of, I love every

970
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:04.679
version of this.

971
00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:05.760
Yeah, absolutely.

972
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:08.280
I was so chuffed that I got this.

973
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.280
Yeah, I noticed that, yeah, you're going to talk over it.

974
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:12.360
Yeah, so...

975
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:14.519
He's getting a word in each word.

976
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:18.300
The weird thing is, of course, Doctor Who stories that go over 4

977
00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:22.619
parts more often than not are hideously padded.

978
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:25.920
No, tiresome. tires.

979
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:29.159
The invasion managers to escape that, really by being two, 4

980
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:30.420
parters that are put together.

981
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:35.039
So episodes one to 4 are all about setting up the mystery of

982
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:40.079
Tobias Vaughan, reestablishing the brigadier, introducing unit, and

983
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:48.059
giving us the 1st modern day story in a city environment since the

984
00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:48.840
baseless ones.

985
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:51.780
You know, we did have the modern day story of hearing from the

986
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:54.239
deep, but that could have been set a 100 years in the future.

987
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:55.500
I think it kind of was.

988
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:58.320
I mean, why do the oil guard people all have guns and sort of

989
00:41:58.320 --> 00:41:59.280
space helmets?

990
00:41:59.340 --> 00:41:59.579
Exactly.

991
00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:06.119
But yeah, we do have this possibly slightly future environment.

992
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:09.300
There's nothing in the script to specify, but they have video

993
00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:10.619
phones.

994
00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:12.300
Coala shirts are quite common.

995
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.960
You know, you've got a military base inside a Hercules jet.

996
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.800
And the BBC continuity now, so I said it was 1975.

997
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.039
So, no, I think it's later than that.

998
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:28.559
I think, don't they say it's 4 years after the yeti.

999
00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:32.699
And I think the yeti, and we aren't going to fight over this, is

1000
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:36.179
Saturday 1975. visually.

1001
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:38.940
Yeah, Well, as usual, it's always saving the actual year.

1002
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.360
But Jamie says that it's only been a few weeks for him since the

1003
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.179
yeti, but the brigandier says it's been 4 years.

1004
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.519
So it is near future.

1005
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:49.980
Like it's sort of 10 years in the future or something like that.

1006
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:50.639
Yeah.

1007
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:54.900
Now, the thing is, if you were to say that where the fear was set

1008
00:42:54.900 --> 00:43:02.340
in the year it was broadcast 1967, then 4 years later would be

1009
00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:03.179
1971.

1010
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:09.239
And the implication later on in Spearhead is that not much time

1011
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:13.380
certainly no longer than a year has passed since the invasion for

1012
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:14.340
the brigadier.

1013
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.619
So that's possible, but we're getting into unit dating later.

1014
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:17.699
No, let's not.

1015
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:20.760
I can't possibly put the energy into caring about that at all.

1016
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:25.019
When I say later, and remember, I'm coming back to unit dating

1017
00:43:25.019 --> 00:43:28.139
with a certain Tom Baker story, foreshadowing the team listener

1018
00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:28.980
foreshadowing.

1019
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:33.000
It's a game of 2 halves, very wisely because, you know, when

1020
00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:36.300
you've got this sort of huge 8 part iceberg in the middle of your

1021
00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:36.599
thing.

1022
00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:40.260
You can you can really sort of handle that in 2 ways.

1023
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.739
You can do what John Wiles did with the Doic master plan and say, I

1024
00:43:43.739 --> 00:43:46.380
don't want to make this anyway, so let's get on with it, do it by

1025
00:43:46.380 --> 00:43:49.920
the numbers, or you can do what Derek Sherwin did and say, right

1026
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:50.699
I'm developing an idea.

1027
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:54.059
I'm giving it to some very talented writers, and we are going to

1028
00:43:54.059 --> 00:43:55.320
go for broke.

1029
00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:58.559
And I think a big reason that they go for broke.

1030
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:02.579
Is this is the 5th anniversary special of Doctor.

1031
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:03.119
Oh, really?

1032
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:03.900
think so?

1033
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:08.579
Episode 4 was broadcast on the 23rd of November, 1968.

1034
00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:10.380
Wow. isn't that lovely?

1035
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.340
You know why, though?

1036
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.019
This is a doggie Campfield director.

1037
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:14.460
Oh, look at it.

1038
00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:16.679
It's Hysteric Sherwin writing it finally.

1039
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:19.679
So we get we get Doctor Who as it's meant to be by this production

1040
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:20.039
team.

1041
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:21.960
So they pull out...

1042
00:44:22.019 --> 00:44:24.780
You've got Derek Sherwin, you've got doggie camp.

1043
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:25.679
We've got a score.

1044
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:26.699
What about this score?

1045
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.239
You know, we've mentioned the 4 John Barry score for the Ipcris

1046
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:30.659
Files.

1047
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.280
Have you ever watched that movie again, great?

1048
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:33.119
It's the same music.

1049
00:44:33.179 --> 00:44:36.719
It's as close as you can get without getting, you know, super.

1050
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.579
It's, I love the sound of this thing.

1051
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.940
They bring back a returning monster in the form of the side and

1052
00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:43.559
men who don't appear until the anniversary.

1053
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:46.440
They're a little bit of rubbish, so they're staying boxes for the

1054
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:50.219
1st 4 episodes because they're just, yeah, they're unfurry yetis.

1055
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:55.320
They just cyphers for the real villain who is drumroll, the campus

1056
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.579
thing of the 60s we've ever had.

1057
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.320
It's magic, isn't it?

1058
00:44:58.380 --> 00:44:59.880
magic magic chair?

1059
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:03.119
Yeah, and, you know, the best villain actress, Doctor Who, assigned

1060
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.639
from Patrick Trouton, playing Tobias Vaughan.

1061
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:06.599
Yeah, he's really.

1062
00:45:06.659 --> 00:45:09.360
So he's back, the brigadier. who is this guy?

1063
00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:10.260
It's Tobias Spawn.

1064
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:10.920
What's his...

1065
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:12.179
Tobias' motivation.

1066
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:13.079
What's his motivation?

1067
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:14.579
His motivation?

1068
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:17.400
His family were killed in a car crash, just his initials are off.

1069
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:23.940
And of course, he has his wonderful henchman packed. to his names

1070
00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:24.119
yeah.

1071
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:25.980
He's actually...

1072
00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:27.599
He's actually...

1073
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.480
Tobias Vaughan's motivation is the whole Rupert Murdoch thing.

1074
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:32.280
He just wants power over media.

1075
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:33.840
That's why he's such a great villain.

1076
00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:37.559
It's really just the whole narrative thing of his own narcissistic

1077
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:38.760
will for control.

1078
00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:43.139
And he says, camp is a pair of others in a really crowded field

1079
00:45:43.139 --> 00:45:43.980
from episode one.

1080
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:46.199
Oh gosh, she's wonderful.

1081
00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:49.679
Importantly, his camp, but still manages to be menacing.

1082
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:51.659
He's saying not as menacing.

1083
00:45:51.780 --> 00:45:55.800
Well, the thing is, if you look at grown normally, if you look at

1084
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:59.760
60s Batman, you get camp, but you don't really get menacing.

1085
00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:02.760
Yeah, we might segue actually. because the Blu-ray box set of Adam

1086
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:04.019
West Batman's about to come out.

1087
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.199
I watched a few by the time I'm getting it.

1088
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:07.980
We'll watch a few.

1089
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:09.420
Probably when we get to the end of the season.

1090
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.880
Yeah, I'm actually, I've actually bought it for Rob for Christmas

1091
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:13.320
and he doesn't use the podcast.

1092
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:14.579
So, no, that's fine.

1093
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:19.559
It really is an extraordinary performance and it does look in a

1094
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:23.039
way like they're trying to remake Dalek master plan.

1095
00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:25.619
They don't have the daleks anymore, but they have the cybermen.

1096
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.920
And they bring Tobias Vaughn because he's done such a tribase.

1097
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.159
So on Kevin Stoney, as a great, because he's not escaped this

1098
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.400
character. villain, like such a spectacularly great villain.

1099
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.099
And the performance is really, really remarkable.

1100
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:42.059
So there are times where he just seems absolutely powerful and in

1101
00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:42.539
control.

1102
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:46.320
There's that fantastic scene early on where Isabel, who we just

1103
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:47.579
have to talk about in America.

1104
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:48.539
Because she's not out.

1105
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:49.139
She's wonderful.

1106
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:53.099
And we'll talk about this is another reason to hate Norman Ashby

1107
00:46:53.099 --> 00:46:56.880
like Hazman and Lincoln, who refused again to give the rights to

1108
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:58.860
the Travers character.

1109
00:46:58.920 --> 00:46:59.940
Oh, is that why we don't have them?

1110
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.139
So that's why they don't need it.

1111
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:03.900
I mean, they did look into it and Jack Watling wasn't available

1112
00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:04.320
anyway.

1113
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:09.239
But yeah, you're right that they couldn't use the characters even

1114
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:10.260
if they wanted to.

1115
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.119
They did manage to wrangle Lethbridge Stewart, though.

1116
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:13.199
Yeah, that's true.

1117
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:17.940
That's because Sherman actually, and maintains to this day, Derek

1118
00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:21.719
Sherman is quite vocal that is now resuming the BBC and has been

1119
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.019
doing so for over 20 years because he says he invented units.

1120
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:25.800
He's crazy.

1121
00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:28.559
Well, shoot.

1122
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.559
Yeah, but he was a freelance writer when he wrote...

1123
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.900
Hang on, was it Weather Fair?

1124
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.519
Miss Freelance, Freelancer working.

1125
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:36.780
I know he didn't like Webber Fear.

1126
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.639
But he's still home.

1127
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:39.599
He invented you.

1128
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:40.980
No, I mean, he did.

1129
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:43.139
He grabbed a unit on top of the original script.

1130
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:43.500
Yeah.

1131
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.920
Yeah, Vic Singerton isn't too happy about the fact that the Sonic

1132
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:48.719
Screwdriver is so heavily marketed.

1133
00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:53.579
That's true So anyway, when they break into international

1134
00:47:53.579 --> 00:47:57.539
electromastics, which is his company, when they break in in sort

1135
00:47:57.539 --> 00:48:01.619
of episode 2, because Zoe speaks to a computer in our goal and

1136
00:48:01.619 --> 00:48:03.300
makes its brain explorer.

1137
00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:05.639
And then you can enjoy doing that too, Mac.

1138
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:08.820
Yeah, yeah, but Mac isn't very good at our goal and neither am I

1139
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:11.699
But I do at least know how to pronounce the word integer. unlike

1140
00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:12.059
Zoe.

1141
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.420
And so he's laughing.

1142
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:18.239
And like it's not sort of evil villain mark.

1143
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:21.719
It's like genuinely abused and he does it quite a lot.

1144
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:26.820
And there's one, one easily terrifying scene where Isabel

1145
00:48:26.820 --> 00:48:27.840
Watkins.

1146
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:33.780
So Professor Watkins, um, who is being kept captive and he says

1147
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:36.360
you know, you're an evil man and all of that sort of thing and I

1148
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:40.380
would, you know, destroy you and and he gives him a gun.

1149
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:41.940
Give him a gun.

1150
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:42.900
Give him a gun.

1151
00:48:42.900 --> 00:48:45.539
And he's so amused and he's so...

1152
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:46.739
I mean it's so wonderful.

1153
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:50.579
And then he'll turn on a dime and he'll be screaming and stuff and

1154
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:55.860
he's really terrifying and like really... with too much power.

1155
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:57.000
He's wonderful though.

1156
00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:58.980
It is such an amazing performance.

1157
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:03.480
Yeah, it almost feels like in the new series, in the Sontarian

1158
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:06.480
strategm, they were kind to trying to go down a similar route with

1159
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:07.800
the Luke Ratagan character.

1160
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:09.599
You know, the smartest man in the room.

1161
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:13.139
He doesn't quite pull it off because he doesn't have, I mean, I

1162
00:49:13.139 --> 00:49:14.039
suppose it's a matter of age.

1163
00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:18.119
You know, you couldn't believe a young man playing the Kevin Stony

1164
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:19.619
part, playing Tobias Paul.

1165
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:20.820
Well, he wouldn't get away with that.

1166
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:21.900
No, I reckon you could.

1167
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:24.599
Like, it could be like a young, because he just needs to be like a

1168
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:26.460
tech startup kind of guy.

1169
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:27.480
Do you know what I mean?

1170
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:32.039
Like, but it is, it's just, it's just the variety of the

1171
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:33.000
performance and things.

1172
00:49:33.059 --> 00:49:37.260
It's so wonderful And what's so worries as well is Kevin Stoney is

1173
00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:39.059
he's a tall man.

1174
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:40.739
He's got that shock of white hair.

1175
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:45.840
He's immaculately dressed and they piss him against Troughton, who

1176
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:49.800
is small, clothe the 2 big forehead, dressed like a triumph, dark

1177
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.579
hair, and it becomes a battle of the mines.

1178
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:55.440
And right from the beginning.

1179
00:49:56.099 --> 00:49:59.699
At 1st Packer's like, 0 God, you know, who are those two?

1180
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.320
Who are those 2 scrappy looking parent?

1181
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.440
Bourne's just like, no, no, no, he's he's a danger.

1182
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:08.039
Our allies, no him, packer.

1183
00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:12.539
Also, he's one of the most fun villains to do the boys for.

1184
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:14.940
Oh, we're protected.

1185
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.699
What about what about the cyber thing?

1186
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:21.719
The side of thing behind the wall that has Peter Halliday doing

1187
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:26.639
sort of like a funny, ridiculous wrecking fact.

1188
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:28.380
What the hell is platform?

1189
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:29.219
Who knows?

1190
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.760
Well, according to Doctor Who magazine and their comic script

1191
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:34.260
Planet 14 is Marinus.

1192
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:36.599
Or the moon.

1193
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:41.460
Yeah, there's a whole 6th doctor segue. to try and get like...

1194
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.139
The board becomes cyber...

1195
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:44.219
That was the world shape.

1196
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:46.199
That was Scott Morrison of all people.

1197
00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:48.179
Oh, I think I feel like that Morrison.

1198
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:50.940
This is actually the moment where they stop caring about the

1199
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:52.860
Sidemen's origins in a way.

1200
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.079
Maybe they've done that before that.

1201
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:59.219
But, you know, like 1996, they arrive, 2070, it's the moon base

1202
00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:00.900
and everyone kind of remembers them.

1203
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.380
God knows when Wheel of Space is set, like, who knows?

1204
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.480
I believe it is the 21st century.

1205
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:09.420
People say that, but it's not actually said anywhere.

1206
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:12.539
And no one's heard its side and there.

1207
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.059
And then there's the tomb of Simon, which is sort of the far

1208
00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:17.219
future, but there's a sense in which the Simon are from the

1209
00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:17.460
future.

1210
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.260
They're from sort of...

1211
00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:21.599
Yeah, because chronologically, this is the earliest we've seen

1212
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:22.139
inside there.

1213
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:22.619
Yeah, yeah.

1214
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.280
So somehow they're back in like and they've heard of the doctor.

1215
00:51:26.340 --> 00:51:28.199
So you must have had an earlier.

1216
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.059
So I just don't think we care anymore.

1217
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.239
And there is a sense in which the show has done that again.

1218
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:37.500
When Russell reintroduces the sidemen, he does it in a great way

1219
00:51:37.500 --> 00:51:41.099
by having them from a parallel world rather than from like a

1220
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:44.820
parallel universe rather than a mysterious twin planet.

1221
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:50.039
And so they're invented in sort of 2006, essentially.

1222
00:51:50.099 --> 00:51:50.639
Yes.

1223
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:54.599
And every subsequent reappearance in Russell's era, there is an

1224
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:57.239
explanation for why they're there, even when they appear in the

1225
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.059
past in the next doctor.

1226
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:03.539
But since then we don't care and they can appear at any space or

1227
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:07.559
time and they landed their spaceship, you know, centuries ago in

1228
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:11.039
closing time and that shouldn't be possible, but we've stopped.

1229
00:52:11.099 --> 00:52:11.639
Yeah, exactly.

1230
00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:15.239
How they got there is less important than the fact they are

1231
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:15.599
there.

1232
00:52:15.659 --> 00:52:19.980
And I think the cyberman sort of being strong, silent, heavies in

1233
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:23.760
this is far more effective than it was in the wheel in space.

1234
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:28.440
And I think again, that's partially due to the use of Tobias

1235
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:32.219
Vaughan, because it gives them a human face, which means you can

1236
00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:35.579
put off seeing them in that great David Whitaker tradition of

1237
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:40.559
prevaricating, revealing your monster without having a nebulous

1238
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:40.980
threat.

1239
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:44.039
You've got a tangible threat in the form of Tobias Vaughan.

1240
00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:46.019
So it doesn't matter that we don't see side memorators.

1241
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:46.980
And then when we do see them.

1242
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:49.079
Yeah, they don't speak very much because they don't have to.

1243
00:52:49.139 --> 00:52:51.239
I think they've got 2 lines of dialogue.

1244
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.920
I don't use against Pete Halliday.

1245
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:55.260
But they are just blunt instruments in this.

1246
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:59.219
And there, despite the fact they don't speak, because you've got

1247
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:01.440
the sign of a plan of evil treacherous and saying, right, we've

1248
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:02.820
got what we want now, we can dispose of you.

1249
00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:08.579
The sidemen become terrifying, arguably for the 1st time since the

1250
00:53:08.579 --> 00:53:09.239
moveback.

1251
00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:12.239
Yeah, but in a sense, they're not really terrifying because

1252
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:15.300
they're just a fleet of spaceship firing missiles at us.

1253
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:16.980
And the whole end of it is all about that.

1254
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:20.699
But all of that is so funny out of the sewers.

1255
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:21.480
Oh, yeah.

1256
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.780
It's iconic, but it's difficult when we start talking about, you

1257
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:28.019
know, in terms of emotional reactions to this because we're not 5

1258
00:53:28.019 --> 00:53:31.440
and none of us listening to this are going to be 5 and we weren't

1259
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:32.400
5 when we saw it.

1260
00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:35.460
I think I wonder if we kind of wanting it to be terrifying just

1261
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:38.039
because we've got having an affair with this thing.

1262
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:39.480
Because we are really.

1263
00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:44.159
I mean, you do kind of elevate your partner to the point of being

1264
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.739
lovely, even for its sports that you don't really see.

1265
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.260
I like to think it's frightening, but I think what makes it work

1266
00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:53.519
is actually the artfulness of the construct of it, that the way

1267
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:56.639
they're articulated and the way they move and come out and the way

1268
00:53:56.639 --> 00:54:00.420
that they're held back for so long is and that, like all these

1269
00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:03.719
regulants, you could argue that maybe the Daleks really only reach

1270
00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:08.760
a popular core or get a 2nd loop when they've got Davros in front

1271
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:09.000
of them.

1272
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.639
Maybe the side of them only really work with because they've got

1273
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:12.900
Tobias born in front of them.

1274
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.659
You need someone to do the gestures to do the bases and do the

1275
00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:16.019
accent.

1276
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:19.079
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to background the most scenes in

1277
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:22.260
the moon base where the Simon go on and on in sort of episode

1278
00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:22.739
four.

1279
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:24.480
No one wants to see that again, I think.

1280
00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:28.139
Whereas Tobias Mawn. listening to a printer going wrong.

1281
00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:31.079
Where's my form?

1282
00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:35.760
But, you know, Tobias Mawn just is fabulous every time he's on

1283
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:35.940
screen.

1284
00:54:36.059 --> 00:54:39.960
You know, you said earlier that it was like a game of 2 parts.

1285
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:41.579
But I actually wonder whether that's the case.

1286
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:45.059
Like at the halfway point we get the cybermen, but they don't

1287
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:47.219
really change the focus of the story.

1288
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:51.900
And I was actually thinking, you know, other cybermen a mystery

1289
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:57.119
sort of thing because in fact, I discovered the radio time says at

1290
00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:59.760
episode one that this is a new cyberman story.

1291
00:54:59.820 --> 00:55:02.820
So everyone's waiting for the side of the mentor arrived.

1292
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:06.360
There's all this talk about emotions, you know, and Professor

1293
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:11.280
Watkins, who will later go on to have giant hair and invent

1294
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.260
Professor Kettlebell's robot.

1295
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:14.039
Yeah, yeah.

1296
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:18.239
Professor Watkins is inventing machine that creates emotions and

1297
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:22.380
Vaughan says that out and, you know, like our associates or

1298
00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:25.260
whatever he calls them, you know, are particularly vulnerable to

1299
00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:25.679
emotion.

1300
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:27.960
So I don't think it's a mystery that it's the cyberman.

1301
00:55:28.019 --> 00:55:30.059
So it's not a big game changer.

1302
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.860
And then you get the sidemen.

1303
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:34.980
Essentially, there's episode 5 when they're in the sewer, is that

1304
00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:35.219
right?

1305
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:37.019
And then episode six.

1306
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:40.500
I can't remember anymore, but it is very late in the game that we

1307
00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:42.360
get that very iconic cliffhanger.

1308
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:48.900
And so I don't think they're all that important. to the story.

1309
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:54.119
What I think is that this is told at a leisurely pace, but that's

1310
00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:57.119
tolerable because there's enough characters that we're interested

1311
00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:59.099
in to keep us going.

1312
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:03.900
And so we've got Isabel, who I think is a wonderful creation.

1313
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:05.579
Like Anne Travers was spectacular.

1314
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:09.480
We have to be sorry that she didn't get a 2nd run here.

1315
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:11.880
But Isabella is really funny.

1316
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.920
She sort of, she hasn't got that much money.

1317
00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:15.960
She's super mod real.

1318
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:19.320
Yeah, you can see her stepping out of any of the films that are

1319
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:20.099
going on at the time.

1320
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:24.179
She's kind of like a Junior Julie Christie, vulnerable, real.

1321
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:28.559
Yeah, she's really like Paul Street, even though she's been to a

1322
00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:28.980
nice school.

1323
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

1324
00:56:30.179 --> 00:56:34.079
But she falls in love with the very straight laced and sort of, you

1325
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:35.099
know, very nerdy.

1326
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:37.079
Not nerdy, but very concerned.

1327
00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:39.300
Jimmy.

1328
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:41.280
It's Jimmy. yeah, that's right. struggling there.

1329
00:56:41.340 --> 00:56:42.539
So there's a Jimmy in it.

1330
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.619
You always got a red shirt on that.

1331
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:46.440
Have you noticed how the brick goes through his captains with a

1332
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.179
line of regularity?

1333
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:51.239
Well, according to the novel face of the enemy, Jimmy gets

1334
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:52.260
syphilis and guy.

1335
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:52.860
Stop it.

1336
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:57.119
Sorry, according to the novel face of the enemy, Captain Jimmy

1337
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:00.420
Turner and Captain Jimmy Monroe from Spearhead from Space are both

1338
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:04.199
alive and well. in Doctor Who series 9 and the brigadier and that

1339
00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:05.400
goes out for drinks with them.

1340
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:05.880
Oh, good.

1341
00:57:05.940 --> 00:57:06.900
That's lovely.

1342
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.179
I just think that is really nice.

1343
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:11.940
That little budding romance, which is quite sweet.

1344
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.260
Hey, you stinking rich?

1345
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:15.599
Yes, isn't that great?

1346
00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:19.320
All of that is so terrific like a smack on the back of the head

1347
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:19.559
really.

1348
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:22.619
It was just so you're really trying to be lingo here.

1349
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:23.699
You're really trying to be street.

1350
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:26.400
But yeah, at the time, it would have been fresh and surprising.

1351
00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:29.039
I like the 2 girls jumping around trying to do their own version

1352
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:31.139
of Antonioni's blow up.

1353
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:32.940
They're just missing David Hammings.

1354
00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:36.840
They're both trying to be, you know, the film blow up the same

1355
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:37.079
year.

1356
00:57:37.139 --> 00:57:38.159
Oh, it's an amazing film.

1357
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:42.360
It's got David Hemmings. as a photographer, unwittingly witnesses

1358
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:42.960
a murderer.

1359
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:45.000
It's put together from these long takes.

1360
00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:45.780
But there's a scene.

1361
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:53.099
It's got an amazing soundtrack from the Yardbirds, and Herbie

1362
00:57:53.099 --> 00:57:56.579
Hancock, and it's, it's just the film of the year.

1363
00:57:56.639 --> 00:58:00.300
Vanessa Redgrave, David Hemmings, Penelope Tree, a whole lot of

1364
00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:04.559
groovy models of the 60s, and it's just this scene is meant to be

1365
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:05.219
David Bailey.

1366
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.920
But yeah, there's that there's that troping that thing where, ooh

1367
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.920
have a drink where the girls are dressing up and doing that all

1368
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:12.420
kind of lovely Modi 60s.

1369
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:14.280
I'll put a little into the film.

1370
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:17.219
I think you get an extra drink if trope becomes a verb, actually.

1371
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:18.539
Yeah, yeah.

1372
00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:19.260
It's a new rule.

1373
00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:24.059
Troping the... frustration now and happening, doesn't it?

1374
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:27.119
And of course it's got Dougie Campfield, so 8 episodes are still a

1375
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:27.780
pleasure cruise.

1376
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:31.320
Do you know, and I don't think we've talked that much about what

1377
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:34.320
it is about Canfield's direction that's so good, but I do remember

1378
00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:34.679
here.

1379
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:38.760
Yeah, all the shots are so well composed.

1380
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:42.059
And you compare it to the kind of hazard stuff that was happening

1381
00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:43.980
in the studio in the early 60s.

1382
00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:46.079
Everything's really nicely composed.

1383
00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:49.800
People like stand up into the frame or move into the frame.

1384
00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:54.599
There's a wonderful thing where Tobias Vaughn has 3 round screens

1385
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:59.340
on the wall of his office, and he'll go packer and packer will

1386
00:58:59.340 --> 00:59:02.639
like move into those screens from the left, like they'll move off

1387
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:03.119
camera.

1388
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:06.480
And then that's subverted at the very end when he calls a packer

1389
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:07.619
and a cyberman.

1390
00:59:07.619 --> 00:59:09.360
He does exactly the same move.

1391
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:14.460
We keep talking about how wonderful Kevin Stone is and how

1392
00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:15.900
wonderful Peter Halliday is.

1393
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.739
But as he was saying, Nathan, all of the costs are just so good in

1394
00:59:19.739 --> 00:59:20.039
this.

1395
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:21.780
Everyone is giving it their all.

1396
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:24.719
Everyone has their own little story throughout.

1397
00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:30.000
Um, So much so that it wasn't until about the 3rd or 4th time I

1398
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.079
watched this that I realised that Jamie and Professor Watkins just

1399
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.659
kind of disappear in episode seven.

1400
00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:39.960
Jamie gets shot when, you know, they're trying to capture

1401
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:41.099
Professor Walker.

1402
00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:41.940
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1403
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.260
So they adopt went into hospital. barely in the last 2 episodes at

1404
00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:46.440
all.

1405
00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:48.960
There's a filmed insert at the end where they're getting the

1406
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:51.059
Tartars and go, but essentially he's absent.

1407
00:59:51.179 --> 00:59:55.920
But because all of the past are so good. don't really notice until

1408
00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:56.940
you're made aware of it.

1409
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:00.599
I'm not saying that as a detriment to Fraser.

1410
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:06.300
I'm saying that as The conclusion to the story is so fast moving

1411
01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:10.739
and there's so many things going on in different places that it's

1412
01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:14.940
a way to kind of go, okay, we are missing someone.

1413
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.340
Let's make sure the audience doesn't notice.

1414
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:18.480
Yeah.

1415
01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:18.840
Yeah.

1416
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:22.500
It was this thing where at the end of it, I kind of felt like I

1417
01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:25.199
was glad that I'd spent that much time with these people.

1418
01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:30.119
And, you know, like it isn't, it's only a year, it's just over a

1419
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:35.400
year before spearhead from space and we're going to have 37

1420
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:36.719
partners in that season.

1421
01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:37.619
Yeah.

1422
01:00:37.619 --> 01:00:38.280
Yeah.

1423
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:43.619
And like, again, I'm not sure how successful all of those are, but

1424
01:00:43.619 --> 01:00:46.079
there was something kind of nice.

1425
01:00:46.139 --> 01:00:49.920
If there's enough action and enough people, uh, like enough

1426
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:53.519
worthwhile characters, staying with them for 8 episodes is

1427
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:56.519
actually not uh, is not arduous.

1428
01:00:56.579 --> 01:01:00.539
And certainly many of the 6 parties last season are much harder to

1429
01:01:00.539 --> 01:01:02.159
see it through than this.

1430
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:03.239
Yeah, absolutely.

1431
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:09.179
And amongst those characters who are really fun to watch, we have

1432
01:01:09.179 --> 01:01:14.519
2 who will soon become regular allies, I suppose, as you might

1433
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:17.039
call them, or regular supporting characters.

1434
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:19.679
We've, of course, got Nicholas Courtney back, now promoted to

1435
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:21.179
Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart.

1436
01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:23.159
That's a twist.

1437
01:01:23.219 --> 01:01:23.880
Did you see that note?

1438
01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:28.199
And yeah, it's rather wonderful. 1st time we, the 1st time we see

1439
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:30.539
him at the story, he's climbing out of the cockpit.

1440
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:33.300
So, you know, you get an eye full of Nicholas Court, his rear end

1441
01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:35.219
and then ta-da.

1442
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.360
I'm wearing a moustache.

1443
01:01:36.420 --> 01:01:41.880
And of course, sitting on the cons unit and getting people on the

1444
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:45.659
blow of the brigadier and spying on the doctor and Jamie in a

1445
01:01:45.659 --> 01:01:45.960
car.

1446
01:01:46.019 --> 01:01:49.500
Sergeant Benton, welcome John Levine in the flesh.

1447
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:53.280
Well, so John Levine had been a yeti in the web of fear and he had

1448
01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:56.940
been a cyberman in the moon base, apparently, uncredited and he

1449
01:01:56.940 --> 01:02:01.619
was going to be a cyberman in this, but Donny Canfield sacked the

1450
01:02:01.619 --> 01:02:05.219
original Benton and kept turning up later recording and putting

1451
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:10.380
their their schedule out and no one will tell us who the original

1452
01:02:10.380 --> 01:02:11.280
Benton was.

1453
01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:12.539
I don't think we know.

1454
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:14.760
But then Benson gets promoted.

1455
01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:20.519
And Benton is in it all the way through until the Android invasion

1456
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:23.760
is his last appearance last regular appearance and he gets

1457
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:28.380
mentions in both Morden Undead and Battlefield years later.

1458
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:31.559
So he does have a really long history of the pro with the program

1459
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:36.539
and he is, it's just him and the brigadier from 60s units are the

1460
01:02:36.539 --> 01:02:37.440
only ones who survive.

1461
01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:41.519
And it's rather likely, you know, considering this is effectively

1462
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:44.280
Doctor Who's 5th anniversary story, whether it was intended to be

1463
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:45.840
a, I don't think, is that important.

1464
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:50.940
It's rather lovely that this uses so much Doctor Who's past.

1465
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:52.679
You know, the earth is under attack.

1466
01:02:52.739 --> 01:02:53.940
It's got cybermen.

1467
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.400
They've brought back a villain from the art and era.

1468
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:57.300
They brought back W.

1469
01:02:57.300 --> 01:03:00.780
Canfield, who directed part of the stories as well, but it has

1470
01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:02.039
something for the future as well.

1471
01:03:02.099 --> 01:03:03.000
Setting up units.

1472
01:03:03.059 --> 01:03:04.619
It's bringing in Sergeant Benton.

1473
01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:06.360
How conscious is that?

1474
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:10.320
According to Derek Sherwin, it's quite conscious that.

1475
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:14.880
The writing was already on the wall, even for this 1st pile of

1476
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:17.820
production block, but the costs needed to be brought down for

1477
01:03:17.820 --> 01:03:18.300
Doctor Who.

1478
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:19.619
But he was told very late in the day.

1479
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.920
So it's like, right, you can only turn a cruise liner so fast.

1480
01:03:23.340 --> 01:03:28.619
We'll start turning around. the most expensive Dr. Moose story to

1481
01:03:28.619 --> 01:03:31.440
date though, apparently. makes sense.

1482
01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:34.440
You know, he also said he was sick of all this blundering about

1483
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:34.980
space.

1484
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.019
He thought it was...

1485
01:03:37.019 --> 01:03:40.920
So, yeah, he was pitching this idea of earthbound stories

1486
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:44.099
political thrillers will have a regular cast.

1487
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.760
So even though, you know, we'll have to spend money on us.

1488
01:03:47.820 --> 01:03:51.000
Yeah, we'll have to spend money on yeah, it's troubleshooters.

1489
01:03:51.059 --> 01:03:52.800
It's the concept that Sidney Newman rejected.

1490
01:03:52.860 --> 01:03:55.860
Even though we'll have to spend money on battle sequences and

1491
01:03:55.860 --> 01:03:59.519
whatnot will save money on standing sets and happy.

1492
01:03:59.579 --> 01:04:03.000
So it's the celebration of the last 5 years in the beginning of

1493
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:03.719
something quite different.

1494
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:09.300
Yeah, well, it is it could have fitted into season seven, I

1495
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:09.480
think.

1496
01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:12.900
When the perjury era comes along quite soon.

1497
01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:16.679
I do have many, many critical things to say about it.

1498
01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:22.199
But one thing that I really like about it is an expanded regular

1499
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:28.440
cast, and it's one of the things that both Russell and Moffatt, to

1500
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:32.760
a lesser degree, have tried to do so that it's not just a story

1501
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:37.559
about 2 people and everyone else is new every month, that you get

1502
01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:38.820
to know a bunch of people.

1503
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:41.820
And like in the pertry era, you know, I'm not saying that Benton

1504
01:04:41.820 --> 01:04:44.579
and Yates are particularly well characterised or anything like

1505
01:04:44.579 --> 01:04:44.820
that.

1506
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.420
But they are familiar faces and they do eventually become people

1507
01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:49.739
that you're invested in.

1508
01:04:49.739 --> 01:04:52.619
And it does, I think it helps the show enormously.

1509
01:04:52.679 --> 01:04:57.780
And so here where you have, you know, Jimmy and Benton and and

1510
01:04:57.780 --> 01:05:00.719
Isabel and, you know, Professor Watkins and, you know, like a

1511
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:03.539
whole bunch of people who are sort of who you're reasonably

1512
01:05:03.539 --> 01:05:05.760
invested in, who are kind of interesting enough.

1513
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:09.360
I think it makes the show quite you know, quite fun to watch.

1514
01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:10.920
Absolutely. absolutely.

1515
01:05:10.980 --> 01:05:14.579
And it's got units based in a flying converted Hercules.

1516
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

1517
01:05:16.980 --> 01:05:17.519
Is that cool?

1518
01:05:17.579 --> 01:05:20.940
Well, they definitely haven't did have a good space on a plane.

1519
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.940
Yeah, then we get the valiant later on.

1520
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:26.039
Cloudface.

1521
01:05:26.099 --> 01:05:29.039
Well, I think that that is a, like, I think that Moffat must have

1522
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:30.900
done a deliberate invasion reference.

1523
01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:33.480
And that's the other thing that we haven't mentioned is this is

1524
01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:35.099
the definitive Cyberman story.

1525
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:37.199
Yeah, certainly when there's Cyberman...

1526
01:05:37.260 --> 01:05:41.159
Yeah, we're in rise of the sidemen and age of steel, which I think

1527
01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:46.320
are a bit underrated, having the cyberman a threat in contemporary

1528
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:51.480
London, you know, like I think, and in international electromatic

1529
01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:54.719
so I actually get a shout out, they're actually mentioned in it.

1530
01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:58.139
And this, the sidemen marching down the steps of St.

1531
01:05:58.139 --> 01:06:01.139
Paul's has been redone twice, once for more than 30 years in the

1532
01:06:01.139 --> 01:06:01.679
TARDIS.

1533
01:06:01.739 --> 01:06:05.280
And then again, for Dark Water and Death in Heaven recently.

1534
01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:07.199
Well, you know where that comes from, though, don't you?

1535
01:06:07.260 --> 01:06:11.760
We've cited it before, and it's Canfield deliberately, you know

1536
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:12.239
did it.

1537
01:06:12.300 --> 01:06:15.480
It's shot for shot, a tempkin, but ship the champion.

1538
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:19.139
It's the same shop used in Gilliam's Brazil, and it's used in

1539
01:06:19.139 --> 01:06:20.699
Scorsese's Untouchables.

1540
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:22.980
The soldiers marching down the yeah.

1541
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:23.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1542
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:26.039
It's an iconic thing long before we got there.

1543
01:06:26.099 --> 01:06:28.739
And coming back to something you were saying earlier, Richard

1544
01:06:28.739 --> 01:06:30.059
about whether this is scary or not.

1545
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:32.880
The reason I find that cliffhanger to episode six, so scary, when

1546
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:36.420
they're all marching out, is you keep thinking the music's going

1547
01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:36.960
to cut in now.

1548
01:06:37.019 --> 01:06:39.119
The episode's going to end and I'm going to be safe.

1549
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:42.659
But no, we cut to more cybermen and more cybermen and more

1550
01:06:42.659 --> 01:06:43.440
cybermen.

1551
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:49.320
It's the equivalent of... the shot at the beginning of the 1st

1552
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:52.860
Star Wars film where the ship passes over you and it just goes on

1553
01:06:52.860 --> 01:06:55.260
and on and on and on.

1554
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:58.380
And then there's more and more and more, and then finally the

1555
01:06:58.380 --> 01:06:59.340
music cuts in and you're safe.

1556
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.079
Well, the credits actually scroll up them.

1557
01:07:01.139 --> 01:07:03.719
I mean, there's sidemen walking along past that pub, but they're

1558
01:07:03.719 --> 01:07:04.679
while they're closing credits.

1559
01:07:04.739 --> 01:07:07.019
But earlier on, you've seen that they haven't even stopped with

1560
01:07:07.019 --> 01:07:07.320
the music.

1561
01:07:07.380 --> 01:07:07.619
Yeah.

1562
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:10.079
But earlier on, you've seen that they have to revive one at a time

1563
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.239
and I'm thinking, really, have they got the time to bring, you

1564
01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:13.739
know, there's not probably only that 8 of them.

1565
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:15.360
They've got to do them by hand.

1566
01:07:15.420 --> 01:07:17.219
It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

1567
01:07:17.340 --> 01:07:20.099
That you could zip, zip, uh, Anyway.

1568
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:22.800
Well, they're controlling the whole world through their iPods

1569
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:23.280
anyway.

1570
01:07:23.340 --> 01:07:24.239
Yeah, that's right.

1571
01:07:24.300 --> 01:07:25.800
That's a nice thing.

1572
01:07:25.860 --> 01:07:26.400
I don't know.

1573
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:27.719
I don't know why they're picking on London.

1574
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:29.280
It would have been sort of more sensible.

1575
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:32.579
They're actually coming from the side, so quieter communities, but

1576
01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:36.480
then you wouldn't have been able to do campfields, money shots.

1577
01:07:36.539 --> 01:07:39.119
So long as Vaughan is an egomaniac.

1578
01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:40.199
Yep, he really is.

1579
01:07:40.619 --> 01:07:42.780
To you, to buy us.

1580
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:43.559
You were fabulous.

1581
01:07:44.340 --> 01:07:48.179
I was going to say much like most podcasts out there, but not like

1582
01:07:48.179 --> 01:07:49.079
ours, I'm sure.

1583
01:07:52.139 --> 01:07:55.679
I'm really glad we've ended this season, haven't we?

1584
01:07:55.739 --> 01:07:57.840
Yeah, because this just went out before Christmas, didn't it?

1585
01:07:57.900 --> 01:07:59.460
So it's nice that we're back at this point now.

1586
01:07:59.519 --> 01:08:01.500
I was really glad that the year ends on this high.

1587
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:02.099
Yeah.

1588
01:08:02.099 --> 01:08:03.539
Did they take a break?

1589
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:06.000
Like, are there a few weeks before the next story starts?

1590
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:06.780
don't think so.

1591
01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:09.360
I think they just went straight into the Crotons.

1592
01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:12.059
Yeah, I don't think they really did mean season breaks until the

1593
01:08:12.059 --> 01:08:12.480
70s.

1594
01:08:12.539 --> 01:08:13.199
Right.

1595
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.179
But they did do them in the 70s, didn't they?

1596
01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:16.560
Yes, they break over Christmas.

1597
01:08:16.619 --> 01:08:18.239
Yeah, they did.

1598
01:08:27.300 --> 01:08:32.699
Right, so before we go, remember, you can always enter our

1599
01:08:32.699 --> 01:08:33.300
competition.

1600
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:36.779
Just comment on the page for this episode on the website and

1601
01:08:36.779 --> 01:08:39.600
you'll be in the running to win a target novelisation of your

1602
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:41.699
choice from a selection we have available.

1603
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:48.180
Our next episode will be out next week discussing the crotons and

1604
01:08:48.180 --> 01:08:49.859
the sea, top death.

1605
01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:53.100
Seeds of death, Seeds of Doom.

1606
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:54.119
I always get them mixed up.

1607
01:08:54.180 --> 01:08:55.020
No, it's seeds of death.

1608
01:08:55.079 --> 01:08:55.979
Don't look at me confused.

1609
01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:57.359
I was going to do that here.

1610
01:08:57.420 --> 01:08:59.579
No, no, I was trying to work out whether to go.

1611
01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:03.300
But then I realised that Bernard Breslaw is not in seeds of

1612
01:09:03.300 --> 01:09:03.600
death.

1613
01:09:03.659 --> 01:09:04.199
No, that's right.

1614
01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:04.859
He doesn't do.

1615
01:09:04.859 --> 01:09:07.439
The phone machine is back.

1616
01:09:07.500 --> 01:09:09.239
The phone machine is back.

1617
01:09:09.300 --> 01:09:09.899
Hooray.

1618
01:09:09.960 --> 01:09:15.239
And also, the anniversary theme continues with one of the guest

1619
01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:18.000
stars of the Crotons being quite famous for having played a role

1620
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.300
in a Hartnell story, but we'll talk about that more next time.

1621
01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:22.739
Goodbye.

1622
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:23.880
Oh, goodbye.

1623
01:09:23.939 --> 01:09:24.539
Why?

1624
01:09:24.539 --> 01:09:24.899
Thank you.

1625
01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:33.600
You have been listening to Flight Mentarity with Nathan Bottomley

1626
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:34.979
Brennan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1627
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:38.159
This episode, Surprise, I've got a moustache, was reported on

1628
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:39.359
November the 30th.

1629
01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:42.119
The next episode will be released on December 21st.

1630
01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:45.300
You can find us online at Friday entirety.com, fly through

1631
01:09:45.300 --> 01:09:48.659
entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1632
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:52.079
This episode is dedicated to Ian Fairband, who played Gregory in

1633
01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:52.739
the invasion.

1634
01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:01.680
I'm going to say the word tiresome over and over again.

1635
01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:02.939
Oh, we're recording.