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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:27:29

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast unexpectedly dropped from the television version of this story.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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And I'm Simon.

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Well, the doctors know where to be seen this week.

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Instead, it looks like BBC One have decided to screen an unseen prequel to serve them all my days, a prequel where there's no sign of Matthew Waterhouse, and where the plot seems strangely familiar for some reason.

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It's everyone's favourite episode 8 of series 3, human nature.

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So, this is slightly unusual, isn't it?

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We have had Doctor Who stories that have been roughly based on, or inspired by, sort of, big finish.

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I'm thinking Dalek.

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Yeah, and Age of steel.

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Yeah, right.

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They both get sort of credits, I think.

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You know, Mark Platt gets a credit in the closing credits because he's the inspiration for that.

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But this is just really a straight kind of retelling of Paul Cornell's 1995 New Adventures novel.

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Yeah, so in one fell swoop, they basically say the new adventures didn't happen.

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Yes, I did want to talk about Canon.

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I always do.

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I know it's all made up, but at the same time, it effectively is saying that the new adventures didn't happen by retelling the story.

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But hang on, like, in that novel, it's the 7th doctor in Benny, and this is not the 7th doctor in Benny. and there's some other differences too.

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Well, the doctors just decided to do it again.

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Yes.

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Why not, I suppose?

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Every time I become human, I end up falling in love with Joan Red. going back to 1913 or 14.

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Yes.

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They are set at slightly different times.

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Cornell's novel set in sort of April 1914.

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So what, five, 6 months after this one.

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So perhaps both of them happened or neither, who knows?

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I mean, the canon thing is really of no interest to me at all.

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No, exactly.

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And what Canon really is, is what can you refer to in Doctor Who?

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And so this is a bit of a big Easter egg for all of us who are following the new adventures. we all were, weren't we?

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Oh, yes.

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That was what Doctor Who was at the time.

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Yeah, 1995.

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We just didn't have anything and we hadn't had anything for a long time.

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And the new adventures, like when I look back on them, I feel a sort of strange reluctance ever to read any of them again.

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But my memory is that there was some extremely good Doctor Who there.

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Yes.

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I've actually got quite a nostalgia for them and I've just started reading them all from the beginning because there are several that I never read at the time. or some sort of they get halfway through.

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And um, I mean, I'm only up to sort of, what is it?

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Andrew Cartnell's one, Warhead, whatever it's called, the 2nd of the Times crucible ones, of the cat's cradle ones, rather.

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And I do have a great nostalgia for them because I, there are some of them that I think were very, very good, or at least spoke to me at the time, and human nature was certainly one of them.

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And we, as some people in this room may recall, when the series came back in 2005, my future husband and I were deliberately avoiding any spoilers at all, any spoilers at all, even we didn't want to know titles, we didn't want to know who was in them.

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We wanted to try and revisit our childhood where it was just the episode titles in TV week and you went, oh, what's this?

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and you watched it.

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I remember that because we had to avoid you.

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Yes, yes.

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Well we had to avoid you.

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And I know there was much consternation at the time that we'd chosen this route, but however, we all worked through that.

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But when at the end of 42, the next time comes on and shot by shot, it suddenly dawned on me.

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Oh my god, they're doing human nature.

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And I think it was the moment when you see him in academic garb and and Joan is the sort of the nurse and it really completely clicks.

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They're doing human nature and I was so over the moon because this one really, that novel really did mark a pinnacle, I think, of the new adventures books.

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I think, you know, 1995 was probably a pretty good year for the new adventures books sort of generally.

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And this one was actually re-released.

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You can actually still buy it on the Kindle.

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It was re-released as part of a thing called the history collection, which includes some new adventures and some BBC books and things.

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And Paul wrote another sort of intro.

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And he actually says that he was really fond of this novel because he thought his previous novel had been bad.

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So that was no future.

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Yeah that was terrible.

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Yeah, no, he said it was just sort of a tiresome collection of, you know, in-joke references to previous stories.

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And, you know, that was something that the new adventures could probably get away with better than the new series can because it's only being read by like 4000 people.

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Well, the print run was microscopically small.

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Yeah, that's right.

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That's right.

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With all due respect to our friends, you've written them.

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No, no.

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And it was being read by people who could pick up all of those references and things.

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But he had decided.

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And what he says is he wanted to get the doctor to fall in love and he couldn't really do that without kind of breaking the premise of the program.

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And so that was when the sort of Superman 2 idea hits him.

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He gives up his time lordiness.

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Yeah, to become human.

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Do you remember reading this song?

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No.

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By this time I was giving up on the new adventures.

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I read some of them, but then there were too many hit and misses.

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So then I just picked and choosed the authors and the ones that they said they were that were really good.

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And it was around this time that I decided not to continue buying them or reading them.

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I'd read Kate's and I knew that Paul's were good.

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So I can't remember if I even read this.

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I may have purchased it.

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Did you purchase all of them?

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I can't remember whether I think by then, Peter and I had consolidated our collection and were just buying one copy and I certainly don't own them now.

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I've got a box. reading Brian's copies.

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Yeah, I've got a box.

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They're not out on the shelf or anything like that.

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I have a box in the attic and this is the most embarrassing admission that I've made on the podcast, among many embarrassing admissions, but I actually got rid of all my target novelisations, but kept the new adventures inexplicably.

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And I can't, you know, they are upstairs in the attic and I can't imagine pulling them down again.

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And the only way that I was able to, you know, read this was by buying it again.

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I wasn't even going to explain. couldn't find it.

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Well, I just wasn't going to be bothered and, you know, my Kindle was in my hand.

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What are you going to do?

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Well, you see, I got rid of the target novelisations too, because as soon as it became apparent that, you know, everything was going to be based on that wonderful thing called VHS.

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Everything that was extant.

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And then you had audios of the ones that weren't.

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The need for the novelisation sort of, for me, evaporated.

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And I'm a bit, you know, regretful about that because there is, in some respects, much more of a nostalgia about that than there is about the new adventures.

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But the new adventures are unique.

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So they in some respects are worth keeping.

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Yeah, because you can't buy them on DVD or anything.

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I belong to a group on Facebook, the Doctor Who Target novel people, and they are constantly hunting down sort of, you know, rare copies or library copies or hardback.

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It's usually the wheel in space or something.

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Yeah, yeah, Paradise Towers.

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And like I've got a lot of sympathy for that.

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Certainly, I have great memories of the target novelisations, including things like Doctor Who and the cave monsters, doomsday weapon, like all of these ones that were vastly superior to the frankly pertweet stories.

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Oh, what's up?

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I'm offended by it.

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No I love them.

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I do too.

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There's a whole lot of Twittery stuff going on at the moment where they're voting on the different covers of the different versions of the target covers.

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The original doesn't always win out, but sometimes it's like it's too much nostalgia. just go, I just love that cup.

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I'm sorry, let's have a confession here.

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The cover that you like is the one that you happen to buy.

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And with our age group, we would have been buying for some of those earlier ones, we'd have been buying the 2nd cover.

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Yeah, I had the 2nd cover of the Green Death and of...

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And we didn't have dinosaur invasion.

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Yeah, we didn't have the clack version of the dinosaur invasion, for instance.

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And so they're the covers that you think are the best.

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In fact, I even had a Pyramids of Mars with the neon logo on it, which was, didn't, you know, which I, of course, thought was much better than the, than this strange drawn one that was, I can't remember the original.

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But let's get back to this.

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So, the cold open.

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We're right into the adventure.

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There's things happening.

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The doctor and Martha are being pursued.

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We've got the watch, and then we cut to Mr. Smith and his dreams.

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It's actually a bit cleverer than you think because you think you're being thrown sort of in made arse rays at the very beginning, but it turns out that you're actually even further along.

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So you think you're starting in the middle of an adventure, but the adventure is actually, you know, it's months now after that.

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And how long have they been there?

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How long have Martha and the doctor been there?

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several months, several months.

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I know that she keeps saying there's only one month to go.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, I think it's supposed to be several months.

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It is mentioned, like it's 3 months or a term or something.

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Joan does mention how long they've been there for.

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But it sets up a lot of interesting questions because I was writing my notes going, well, how do they get the job and all this sort of stuff and then that, of course, is then revealed in the narrative as it goes along.

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This wouldn't work if the character of Joan wasn't so well written and performed.

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And I think Jessica Hines is just tremendous, giving the strength to the character of Joan, but also the vulnerability.

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And as viewers, we obviously have to accept that the doctoral this version of the doctor, Mr. Smith, can fall in love with this character.

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We've only seen it really once before in Stephen Moffat's episode with the girl in the fireplace, where there's sort of a love interest there.

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It's a love interest with the actual doctor as opposed to a simplified version of the doctor.

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So it does work so they are different in that regard, which is why it's quite beautiful, I think.

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I think too, that this, you know, the fact that this is being done with a 10th doctor, who is a romantic figure with a girl in every fireplace, who was in some sense in love with Rose during the series 2.

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So that makes this story very different from the novelisation where you've got Sylvester McCoy's doctor who is sort of silly and sort of sweet, but not at all a romantic hero, and where we haven't seen the doctor depicted in that way.

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Now we're used to it.

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You know, when Russell brings the doctor back, he's not the neutered public schoolboy of the classic series, which is how Russell actually puts it in the in the kind of series Bible.

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So we already have a romantic hero and we already, you know, we're travelling with a companion who is in love with a doctor who's attracted to him.

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So this isn't as series breaking an idea as it was when it was a novelisation.

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It wasn't a novelisation name.

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I keep saying novelisation.

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Let me I'll see whether to cut that out.

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No, don't cut that out.

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Yeah.

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But just can I add, sorry, just going back to the McCoy version, though.

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The McCoy doctor is older, quote unquote.

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You know, he's someone who presents as in their late 40s, maybe even older by the time you get to the new adventures, and the Joan character in the book is portrayed as older.

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So it's sort of a more of a sweet later in life, kind of coming together of like minds, rather than in this, where you've got this young, handsome, you know, 30 something person.

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And so there is a different tone anyway.

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Are we reading Jonah's older than the doctor?

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than Mr. Smith?

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In the in the television?

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absolutely.

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I think she's a little older, but not terribly older.

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But I think I think they are coming to this later in life.

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You know, they're in their 30s and they're both not married and I think for that time, that is older.

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Well, she was married.

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She her husband died, right?

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Yes, but she's not married if she doesn't have kids.

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Like, yes, she has that past, but they are both older.

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Yes.

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And I like the fact that it gives David Tennant the opportunity to be completely different to his doctor, who is always so confident and talks really quickly, and here he's tongue tidy, he forced downstairs, he's clumsy, he's very, he's not the man that we know.

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And I think it gives him that opportunity to show a different side to his ability as an actor.

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I think too, that that is a very moffety scene, that scene with Joan and John Smith just kind of blirting for the 1st time.

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And um, the doctor's often really super confident, you know, like even with women, Matt Smith's doctor won't be, you know, Capoldi's doctor won't be, but but David Tennant's doctor is sort of sexy.

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Matt Smith work is more awkward.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So this is a very moffity scene.

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Yeah, well, he's awkward.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Like that's Moffatt's sort of go-to sitcom thing. is men and women being awkward around each other.

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And Paul Cornell is obviously a friend of Stephen Moffat.

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And in fact, the novelisation includes a character called Mr. Moffat, who is named after...

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Yes, that's hilarious, Stephen Moffat.

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So I think that that's a sort of very particularly moffity scene, and it is really genuinely very funny, and it ends with the sort of fabulous slapstick falling downstairs.

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Can I just go back to Jane's performance?

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You sort of say how sweet and sort of wonderful.

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She's, in some respects, she's the only actor and character in it that you feel could be dropped into Downton Abbey and work because, you know, Timothy Latimer is obviously supposed to be ahead of his time because he's obviously a bit psychic or whatever he is.

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And the other boys are a little bit, you know, differently played.

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They're not quite right.

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The headmaster is sort of a bit of a caricature.

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He's barely in it.

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And the doctors, well, the doctor, as John Smith, is a sort of style of performance, which I'll come to later.

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But Joan is the one that feels most like she is in a period drama.

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And I think that's why it works as well.

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The way she, the little tick she has, the way she doesn't quite look at the doctor, when she's talking to him and all that sort of thing, the modesty, the way she tells Martha off for, remember, you have to remember your place and so on.

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It's that sort of prim and proper, you know, the things are done a certain way, you know, and you should know that, and don't be so silly, dear, and all that sort of stuff.

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She grounds the entire performance in BBC period drama reality.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And let's talk a little bit about that because this is our 3rd story this season that's said in the past.

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And the last time you were here, Simon, you got what was sort of a period piece, once said in the 51st century.

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And this doesn't do.

208
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:54.179
I think what has been the sort of standard way of depicting the past in Doctor Who, which is the theme park past, you know, we talked about this a great deal in our Shakespeare code episode that all we get are sort of very standard shorthand signifiers of the year 1599 to kind of locate us there, but the basic messages people were basically the same back then.

209
00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:01.919
And you were saying something before we were recording, Todd, about the Dalek 2 parter. to do with Martha.

210
00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:09.779
Well, just, you know, the Hooverville thing, it's set in a world where racial attitudes are different.

211
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:26.160
Yeah, I mean, I was saying that this is the 1st time, right front and centre, that racism towards Martha is there from the boys and from the other characters, like the headmaster just dismisses her completely as a woman and whether or not that's a woman.

212
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.960
Well, as a woman, as a servant, as a person, yeah.

213
00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:28.859
Yes, all of those things.

214
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:40.559
The previous 2 times this season, we've dodged that in the Shakespeare code, sort of, you know, a bit of humour and then, you know, left behind and in the whole structure of the Dalek 2 parter.

215
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:41.759
It's not there to be addressed.

216
00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:51.539
You know, we've got Hooverville where we've got Solomon is in charge, but would we see other white characters reacting to that, the fact that there's a black man in charge?

217
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:52.380
They don't address that.

218
00:17:52.440 --> 00:18:03.359
But here, it is there and the frustration, We see the frustration and the resilience of Martha Jones in these episodes.

219
00:18:03.420 --> 00:18:12.720
And as it goes along, I feel her angst and her frustration and it's great that it's actually in there and they're not shying away from it.

220
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:27.539
Yes, I think in the earlier episodes, they're conflicted as to whether, whether we want to make a thing about her being a person of colour, or whether we're just trying to say, no, here she is, and it's all fine, it's all normal, because of course everyone's sophisticated and, you know, that's the past.

221
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:34.079
And despite the fact that we have gone back into the past before where it could have been addressed or it could have been noted, it wasn't.

222
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:36.359
Well, it is noted in the Shakespeare code.

223
00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:38.759
Like she says, you know, I'm not exactly why.

224
00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:40.440
Do I need to be worried?

225
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:46.799
And the doctor gives a very kind of white privileged response about, you know, don't be so silly, just walk around like you own the place.

226
00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:51.960
Yeah, you think, well, that's perhaps not an approach that... is available.

227
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:53.160
Compare that to Rosa.

228
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:58.619
Yeah, that's right. where both Towson and Mandeep's characters actually suffer from racism.

229
00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.220
Yes.

230
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:06.000
And thin ice, I think, as well, brings it up and addresses it in a better way.

231
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:17.039
But here, I think, you know, partly it's a kicking the puppy moment, like partly it's a characterisation of Bains and Hutchison as arrogant, horrible, you know, public schoolboy.

232
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:26.400
But it's good characterisation for Martha because, you know, one of the things about Martha is the, you know, the 1st time we see her.

233
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:28.500
She's looking after her family.

234
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:35.099
She's on the phone, making sure that everything's all right for kind of Leo's birthday that night.

235
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:40.079
And we know that she's patient and we know that she's caring and resilient.

236
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:45.359
And so I don't think this story works if Rose is in it at all.

237
00:19:45.420 --> 00:20:02.279
You know, like I don't think we've seen rows in the past just dressing in sort of normal clothes and stuff with Queen Victoria and being kind of arrogant and dismissive of people in the past where Martha's put in a position where she's subservient to them and kind of has to wear that.

238
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:03.660
It totally works.

239
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:14.819
And she doesn't get to the doctor and you see that frustration and and then Joan herself is also very of her time in terms of her attitudes, you know.

240
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.599
She asks about Martha and Martha says, I used to work for the family.

241
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:19.740
He sort of inherited me.

242
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.079
And Jane says, best remember your position.

243
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:23.099
Yeah, you know?

244
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:25.799
And all the way through, the headmaster just dismisses it all the time.

245
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:29.339
But as I said, it's not just because she's black.

246
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:30.420
It's because she's a servant.

247
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.519
The servants are seen and not heard. and a woman as well.

248
00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:36.359
I mean, they're outside.

249
00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:39.960
And a woman as well. pub You know, like, I imagine that's because they're women.

250
00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:42.000
Yes, it's because they're women.

251
00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:46.680
But the headmaster's attitude is, you know, you don't even address, like you don't even talk to me.

252
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:58.559
And I think that's why the racism of 1913 is a different sort of racism because, you know, if you look like that, you're only going to therefore be a servant and therefore it sort of goes hand in hand.

253
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:08.640
It's when, in some respects, racism becomes more aggressive, when there is an attempt to change the socioeconomic positions of people of colour.

254
00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:12.359
And that's where you get the aggressive racism of the 50s and 60s.

255
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.299
Because these people are getting ideas above their station.

256
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:16.140
Yeah.

257
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:18.119
So while ever Martha's sort of deferential.

258
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:18.720
Quote unquote.

259
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:19.500
She'll be okay.

260
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:20.400
Exactly.

261
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:26.339
Although she is the victim of racism or she gets particularly targeted by Hutchison.

262
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:27.660
Baines.

263
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:32.519
Yes, yes. with that sort of standard association of black people, with being dirty.

264
00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:33.960
Exactly, yes, yes.

265
00:21:34.019 --> 00:21:34.440
Yeah, yeah.

266
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:35.160
It's good.

267
00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:36.000
I think it's really good.

268
00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:38.460
And I don't think it overwhelms the show.

269
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:39.839
No, no, at all.

270
00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:41.160
It adds a texture to it.

271
00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:49.079
And I think if it wasn't there, you would have cause to say, well, you've sort of whitewashed history if you want to put it that way.

272
00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:54.720
I actually like the fact that we're not trying to present the people of 1913 as the same as us.

273
00:21:54.779 --> 00:22:01.920
And I think that they come off as somewhat incomprehensible and a bit repellent as well.

274
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:08.819
Well, apart from Tim, because he's the one that is from the present day who feels like he's been dropped into 1913.

275
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:09.539
Yeah, yeah.

276
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:16.140
But that works because that's supposed to, he's supposed to be, you know, a younger version of the doctor, you know, curious and, you know, so on.

277
00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:22.799
It never really properly gets explained why he can see things and guess things that are correct.

278
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:36.180
Oh, there's always been, um, the doctor's always met the odd human who's sort of slightly psychic, slightly psychic or slightly, obviously, you know, evolved to a to a higher form amongst all the other savages sort of thing, you know, that that's happened before.

279
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:40.619
I wonder whether it's the effect of his possession of the watch kind of echoing back in time.

280
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:41.700
Well, no.

281
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:42.599
Oh, echoing back in time.

282
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:43.140
Yes, I see.

283
00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:44.880
Because he does it before he gets the watch.

284
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:45.900
Yeah, yes, you're right.

285
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:46.740
No, quite possibly.

286
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.119
That's a satisfactory excuse.

287
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:49.140
Thank you.

288
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.279
Thomas Sangster, of course, plays Timothy Latimer.

289
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:56.579
I find him quite Gormless, really.

290
00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:03.000
It's a fine performance, like, but I don't, of the 3 younger males.

291
00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:11.579
Harry Lloyd is Baines, a son of mine, is by far the most captivating and standout for me, Tom Palmer, who plays Hutchinson.

292
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:12.900
He could be anybody.

293
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.220
Like he's competent.

294
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.519
I think he does get a good acting moment next week.

295
00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:21.240
We'll talk a little bit more about Baines's performances, son of mine next week.

296
00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:26.519
He does fabulous upperclass twit, though, when he encounters the space.

297
00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:27.119
I say hello.

298
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:28.500
Yes, no, he's brilliant.

299
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.339
He is superb.

300
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.180
Yeah, he superb.

301
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:30.900
Yeah, really terrible.

302
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.700
Because he walks the line between it being a caricature and it being a character.

303
00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:39.480
And I think, you know, you can get a, you can get away with a little bit of character.

304
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:46.680
You need a bit of caricature to tell people instantly who this person is and he does that without it just being hammy.

305
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:48.720
Just going back to Thomas Sangster.

306
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:49.920
He looks very young.

307
00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:52.920
I think he's afflicted with the fact that he looks like he's 12.

308
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:57.119
And even when you get to Game of Thrones, where he's quite possibly 23 or something.

309
00:23:57.180 --> 00:23:59.400
He still looks like he's like 13 years old.

310
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:05.400
And he's supposed to be, he's quite clearly, he's supposed to be the same age as the other 2 boys.

311
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:08.279
They're giving, no, they're giving him his Latin homework to do.

312
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:09.359
There is no way.

313
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:13.680
He is basically the trodden on junior member of the same former as them.

314
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:21.480
I just assumed that he was bullied by them and able to be beaten by them because he was younger than them.

315
00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:25.319
Like the sort of fagging system in an English public school.

316
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:32.339
Because, you know, the others are clearly being played by adults so that we can, you know, make them work for long periods of time during the day.

317
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:39.420
They do have some background tastes next week who are clearly very young and again, we'll talk about that.

318
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:43.619
But it does look like Thomas Angst is the only actual child playing a child here.

319
00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:50.339
But I just assumed that he was terribly bright and that the upperclass twits, Baines and Hutchison were terribly thick.

320
00:24:50.400 --> 00:25:01.799
So he could translate, because he's just been asked to translate Catullus, and, you know, a kid at an English public school before the war would have been doing Latin since they were very young, you know.

321
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:03.960
And so I imagine he could do their homework.

322
00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:04.920
Fair enough.

323
00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:25.200
But I still think that he is, um, maybe I'm just trying to I'm just projecting part of my childhood at school in that, you know, you are, even though you're in the same form as these people, you are the littlest, you are the youngest appearing and, you know, even you are the younger because there can be like, you know, 18 months between these kids and that's a long time when you're when you're that age.

324
00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:26.279
Anyway, look, it's detail.

325
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.440
But he, I think it's just going back to the original point.

326
00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:33.779
I think the actor has that floor where he looks like he's just going to look like a child his entire life until he looks like he's 50.

327
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.359
I agree with you.

328
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:42.660
I think that's part of my problem with casting him is that he looks just so young compared to the others.

329
00:25:42.720 --> 00:26:04.140
In the novel, he is called Thomas Dean, and he is younger than the other boy, and they beat him in the very 1st scene in which he appears, is being beaten by a knotted rope, and then they eventually hang him and kill him, and he is revived because he's got enough kind of residual generation, blah, blah, blah, from the watch.

330
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:05.400
In fact, there's not a watch.

331
00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:06.059
No, it's not.

332
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:06.900
It's a cricket ball.

333
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:16.619
And Cornell says that it was Russell's idea to make it a watch and the reason that the watch works is because you can open it.

334
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:22.140
And so you make a decision, you do a physical action, it opens. special effect.

335
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.160
Yeah, and that's visible.

336
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:26.940
So the choice of what to do with it makes more sense.

337
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:49.140
But the cricket ball is retained in the moment where John Smith has to save the Yes, from the falling piano. the baby and a woman from the from the falling piano, very much shades of Peter Davidson, and I just think it's a bit of the doctor shining through the mask that is on John Smith at that point.

338
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.519
And just going back to what you were saying about those other differences about what happens to Tim.

339
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:57.059
I mean, that is a very dark thing to happen. tongue and so on.

340
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.539
I mean, you know, hanged, that it's no way in hell you'd be able to do that.

341
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:01.680
No, absolutely.

342
00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:02.400
Yeah.

343
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:06.539
I actually think I know why he's called Timothy Dean in the novelisation too.

344
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:20.940
Because Paul Cornell went to a day event that I was at before writing this, and there were 2 boys there, Dean and Unarmed, and he promised to name characters in his next book after.

345
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:22.619
Yeah, he did a lot of that.

346
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:31.259
And Arnand does turn up as a character. and so and then Timothy's last name is Dean, which they obviously change for this.

347
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.720
But I reread some of it last night.

348
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:39.839
Famously, there's a character called Nathan Bottomley in the novelisation of human nature.

349
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:40.980
You in human nature, right?

350
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:48.420
Inexplicably failed to turn up in the TV show, even though I thought he was probably the best thing I've ever seen in the book.

351
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:54.359
And our friend Sarah and our dear friend Lucy, who died last year.

352
00:27:54.420 --> 00:28:04.680
Both appear in the prologue that's written by Benny and, you know, Benny spends some time drinking with the 2 of them and arguing and stuff.

353
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:07.140
And so Paul does this a lot.

354
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:09.660
And it's very sweet.

355
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:14.339
And that's one of the things about those new adventures is we were kind of weirdly adjacent to them.

356
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:14.940
Yes, we were.

357
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:33.900
Yeah, in a way that we probably haven't talked about on the podcast before, but, you know, Kate Orman is someone that we've all known for decades and who was extremely good in all of her novelisations and then Paul, who creates some incredible Doctor Who, in that context, is someone who used to come out and visit and stuff like that.

358
00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:45.119
Martha is paired up with Jenny, the other servant in quite a bit of this episode.

359
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:46.200
I think she's great.

360
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:48.720
And so likeable.

361
00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:51.539
And when she meets her demise.

362
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:53.400
It's actually quite affecting.

363
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:55.019
Yeah, I think so too.

364
00:28:55.079 --> 00:29:04.500
And I think I maybe could have done without the scene of her cowering in the spaceship being menaced by Baines.

365
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:09.660
I think that that's just about at the edge of what I think Doctor Who can do.

366
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:11.700
It's nothing better than that nasty.

367
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.539
Oh come now.

368
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:14.819
Do you know what I mean?

369
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:25.799
Like, it's like an arrogant privileged white kid threatening a servant in this sort of super gross way. and she's really sort of properly terrified and she's a character that we've grown to like.

370
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:27.539
She's got this sort of lovely accent.

371
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:38.339
There's that gorgeous scene where the 2 of them are out the front at the pub and Martha's talking and, you know, they run off to see the invisible spaceship land and all of that.

372
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.539
She's terribly likeable.

373
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.599
But doesn't that make it better?

374
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:50.759
The advantage of having 90 minutes rather than 45 minutes to tell a story is that you can do those things with the characters.

375
00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:53.339
You can get to know them before they're taken from you.

376
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.160
So you will have more, it will affect you more.

377
00:29:56.220 --> 00:30:01.140
That means you can have a more a deeper emotional engagement with the with the plot.

378
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:15.960
You can do that and still have a fast-paced pre-credit sequence for the 1st episode because after that, it all the pacing then drops back into a sort of a more mellow sort of flavour before it then sort of ramps up again.

379
00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:21.599
It does exactly what you should be doing with a 90 minute story rather than a 45 minute story.

380
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:25.740
And the advantages of that are just, I think, cannot be overstated.

381
00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:30.839
Well, I always talk about Greg and Petra in this context, you know, by the time where you finished watching Inferno.

382
00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:31.980
You know Greg and Petra?

383
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:33.539
Yeah, you've spent a month and a half with them.

384
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:36.839
Three hours of yell about them. that's right.

385
00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:39.539
And you can't possibly get that in a 45 minute episode.

386
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:40.019
Yeah.

387
00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:42.720
So otherwise, if it was a 45 minute episode.

388
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:44.819
Jenny wouldn't have would have barely appeared.

389
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.160
She'd have been in half a scene with Martha scrubbing the floor.

390
00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:47.940
Yeah, yeah.

391
00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:59.700
But it's great that both Jenny and Baines take the central roles of son of mine and mother of mine heading into the next episode because the other 2 characters are much more thinly written, which is the girl with the balloon.

392
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:01.500
So she's called Lucy, I think.

393
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.359
But she's daughter of mine, yeah.

394
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:03.839
Yeah, yeah.

395
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:09.240
And she skips along to some little music that reminds me of the girl from Remembrance.

396
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:10.140
Yes, I thought that too.

397
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:10.440
Yes.

398
00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:14.279
And then Mr. Clark, who owns a farm or...

399
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:15.119
Has a big moustache.

400
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.319
And that's about it.

401
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:17.099
You know?

402
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:22.140
And he sort of fobbed off to the side anyway, trying to find the Tartars.

403
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:24.539
But there's still more characters in this than there are.

404
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:30.599
Oh, yeah, but I'm just saying that those 2 are much more thinly drawn than Jenny and.

405
00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:37.980
I think for them, you know, Mr. Clarke, it's in the performance and the look and for Lucy, again, performance and look.

406
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:42.660
And we'll talk more about them next week, I think when we sort of see them properly.

407
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:49.380
One of the things I really love about this episode are all the little touches to the past or the future.

408
00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:54.779
Like I love all the little flashbacks when Timothy opens the watch to things that we've seen.

409
00:31:54.839 --> 00:32:03.900
I love the doctor's journal of impossible things with all the little sketches of rose, blue box, and obviously McCoy and McGann.

410
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:05.700
Yes, McGann becomes canon at that point.

411
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:07.440
Oh, he was always canon.

412
00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:13.619
Was that the 1st time we saw, we had reference to the original seer. proper reference beyond Daleks and Cyberman.

413
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.099
Yeah.

414
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:23.339
Well, so we decided that the 1st time there were real proper references to the old series was when Sarah Jane Smith comes back in school reunion.

415
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.420
Of course.

416
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:35.099
And we think, you know, there are hints at it, but the 1st sort of real proper statement that it's the same kind of continuity is there.

417
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:42.299
But we haven't seen original series doctors and we do see sketches of them here.

418
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:56.940
But we also get with Joan and the doctor when they're walking in the field and she's asking about his past. and Gallifrey and my mother was verity and my father was Sydney, of course, references to Veroti Lambert and Sydney Newman.

419
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:57.359
Yeah.

420
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:59.460
And so there's all those little touches.

421
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:03.539
But that's more of an in-joke for our benefit rather than here is a sketch of Paul McGann.

422
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:09.720
I think, too, that that is a lovely in joke and it's a very poor Cornell in joke as well.

423
00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:22.619
It is absolutely beautiful because it shows a real reverence for those 2 people who really did give birth to Doctor Who, and I love it a lot.

424
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:24.420
I think it's, yeah, it's just one.

425
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:47.880
One of the things in this story is the whole Martha visiting the TARDIS, and then she gets the whole, we get the whole explanation in flashback as to what's going on, and it all seems rather rushed and the family are after them.

426
00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:48.779
Did you see the face?

427
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.779
I've got to then put this thing on my head and become part of the watch.

428
00:33:51.839 --> 00:34:03.059
But then she gets to look at the 24 reasons, you know, if something happens to me, The doctor has sat down and obviously had several minutes to be able to explain to her what to do. her not there.

429
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:03.779
Correct.

430
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:09.000
And it's something in terms of the structure that doesn't necessarily...

431
00:34:09.059 --> 00:34:15.480
In the original, the doctor gives Benny a note, a handwritten note with all of that stuff, you know.

432
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:22.139
I really like that scene a great deal because I think Murray's music is amazingly atmospheric.

433
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:23.219
It's really, really good.

434
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.219
And there's a real kind of sense of dread.

435
00:34:26.219 --> 00:34:35.400
And it's partly those quick flashbacks to, you know, tenant gurning his face off in the chameleon arch, which why wasn't it called a transformation arch?

436
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:39.719
I think they really skipped a potential Delta and the Bannerman reference there.

437
00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:41.940
I think that's very well directed.

438
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.099
I think it's ominous.

439
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:49.380
You know, it's sort of frightening and it is the place where we really find out the premise.

440
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:54.719
It's impossible for us to watch this now without already knowing what's going on, but that's where we find out, isn't it?

441
00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:55.500
Oh, yeah.

442
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.940
I don't have a problem with that.

443
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:07.440
We come back to it, obviously, later in the episode because Martha needs to, is expressing her anxiety or her frustration with the doctor falling in love.

444
00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:09.119
You know, what about women?

445
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:11.039
Had to fall in love with a human.

446
00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:12.420
That wasn't me.

447
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:19.739
Oh, I literally went, well, I just literally did that when she actually said those lines.

448
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.099
She could have just said, you had to go and fall in love with a human.

449
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:24.420
Like it could have stopped.

450
00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:30.360
One of the problems I've got with this season is Martha in love with the doctor goes on and on and on.

451
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.400
I don't have a problem with it in the 1st 3 episodes.

452
00:35:32.519 --> 00:36:00.659
She has a real moment in episode 3 at the end where she sort of sits down with the doctor and, you know, I feel that there's some sort of moment where she might be letting it go of it a bit, in the Dalek 2 parter, because of the structure of that story, to deliver on her, have 2 conversations, about being in love with somebody who's unavailable, with that fantastic joke in episode 5 that is into musical theatre.

453
00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:04.800
But at that point, I kind of feel like, okay, she's having this conversation.

454
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:06.059
She's working it out of her system.

455
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:12.119
And in the last 2 episodes, it sort of made a bit of a joke of in the Lazarus experiment.

456
00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:16.920
And last week in 42, I mean, Martha has a love interest and it's sort of like, I feel like she's moved on.

457
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:24.300
And for me, at that point in this episode, just that line, just, you know, that wasn't me, just irritates me.

458
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:33.599
I just think the line's a bit on the nose and I think that Freema is well and truly capable of conveying that she's still in love with the doctor without us having to hear her say that.

459
00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:36.539
I don't mind her being in love with the doctor.

460
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:46.260
I do think, though, that this does represent a real proper development in her relationship with a doctor, and it's certainly not a story that could have happened any earlier in the season.

461
00:36:46.320 --> 00:37:00.000
And I think the Lazarus experiment is really kind of the proper moment where the doctor stops being dismissive of her and is openly appreciative of her.

462
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:12.059
And here, the fact that he trusts her enough to look after him for all of these months, that he knows that she's reliable and responsible and caring, like that's good.

463
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.719
That makes her being in love with him a bit less.

464
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:22.619
Um, you know, a little bit more tolerable because if she's in love with him.

465
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:27.900
She's at least in love with someone who likes and appreciates her.

466
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:40.500
And that smile that Tenant gives at the end of the recording where he says, oh, and by the way, thanks, and we freeze frame on that smile, which is a lovely, you know, sort of genuine seeming tenant smile.

467
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:42.119
We don't see his teeth or anything.

468
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:44.639
I think that that helps a bit.

469
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:47.460
But I do agree that that bit of dialogue, I think is on the nose.

470
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:58.860
And, you know, when you're in production, you're not going to be able to see that you're too close to things, it's only from a distance, then, you know, I think the conversation she has next week works perfectly fine without having that better dialogue in there.

471
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:05.519
I just think it's, it was an unfortunate choice for the character and I just think it was tedious.

472
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:13.559
And so every time it happened, I would, you know, roll my eyes and and then, yeah, throw out it because I just thought it was doing rose again.

473
00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:17.460
Because Rose falls in love with the doctor, especially the tenant doctor.

474
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:24.059
I think it weighs the character down, but I've actually not minded. weighs the program down. fair enough.

475
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.760
I've not minded it as much this time round.

476
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:34.559
Like, I can see where they're coming from and what they're trying to do with it, but this is the 1st time that I'm quite irritated by that, but it's not a big deal.

477
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:35.579
No, it's not a big deal.

478
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.219
But you know, on the flip side, she does get to slap the doctor.

479
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:43.260
Like, in this episode, which I think is just hilarious, like mother-like daughter.

480
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.699
Although I think this time it's earned, whereas I think 2 weeks ago, I think it's not quite earned.

481
00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:55.199
Yeah, and it's just done for effect and I have a problem with that, but that's a conversation for another time.

482
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:07.260
So let's talk about the dance?

483
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.639
Yes, the climax.

484
00:39:08.699 --> 00:39:10.260
So the village dance?

485
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:11.760
On the 11th of November.

486
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:12.840
1913.

487
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:15.000
Yeah, so, I mean, obviously.

488
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

489
00:39:16.980 --> 00:39:19.380
So this takes place over 2 days.

490
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:30.119
I think it starts on the 10th of November. like he in, you know, I think the Joan and John Smith have that conversation about going to the dance, the initial one that ends up with him falling down the stairs.

491
00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:31.079
It's the day before.

492
00:39:31.139 --> 00:39:40.260
And I do like where he gets that little moment of doctor-ish sort of sexual confidence to invite her to the dance after rescuing the baby from the falling piano.

493
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:41.699
Yes, yes, yes.

494
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:43.739
That's the moment when he does it.

495
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:49.380
But it is very chaste and wholesome dance, which is entirely appropriate, I guess.

496
00:39:49.440 --> 00:40:02.340
Did you recognise the there's a veteran, presumably he's a Boer War veteran because there's a few references to people fighting in the Boer War, including the headmaster and Jones' 1st husband.

497
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:03.420
Well, husband.

498
00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:08.280
And he's the one who gets sort of vaporised by Baines.

499
00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:18.300
But he was evil mob boss Largo in the Blake 7 classic shadow from early integrity.

500
00:40:18.420 --> 00:40:19.739
Are you talking about the guy in the wheelchair?

501
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:20.579
No.

502
00:40:20.579 --> 00:40:22.440
Seeking the nation's?

503
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:24.000
Yeah, I don't think he's in a wheelchair though, is he?

504
00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:24.360
Is he?

505
00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:25.380
I think he's standing at the door.

506
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:26.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

507
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:27.780
I can't remember.

508
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:29.039
But yes, yeah.

509
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.260
Oh, in this episode, he's standing at the door.

510
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:32.280
Oh, standing at the door.

511
00:40:32.340 --> 00:40:33.360
Martha just walked straight past him.

512
00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:34.199
Yeah, forget it.

513
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:35.400
Yeah, this is the...

514
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.219
I've had enough of this... this is the 1913 crap.

515
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:38.579
Yeah.

516
00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:41.340
You know, I'm a woman from 2007.

517
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.079
I'm not going to do this anymore.

518
00:40:43.139 --> 00:40:44.280
I really like that.

519
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:47.219
Her and Jonah, my MVPs of this episode.

520
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.440
Even that the dialogue exchange.

521
00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:52.739
He says, you know, back entrance or servants entrance or something, I think.

522
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:55.260
And she says, yeah, no, I don't think so, mate.

523
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:56.400
I don't think so, mate.

524
00:40:56.460 --> 00:40:58.380
But the beautiful thing is she doesn't even slow down.

525
00:40:58.440 --> 00:40:59.039
No.

526
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:01.260
And it is.

527
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.619
She's had enough of all your 1913 crap at this.

528
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:05.460
Exactly.

529
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:06.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

530
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:18.000
And so we have, you know, all of the family, I think the little girl has been sitting there at the dance being bored and resentful for quite some time, which I think is sort of super hilarious.

531
00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:22.139
And then everyone else sort of converges on it with the lobster guns.

532
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:24.000
They're very strange guns.

533
00:41:24.059 --> 00:41:25.679
They are indeed, aren't they?

534
00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:28.559
Yeah, I've never thought of them as lobster.

535
00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:32.219
They do kind of, they do look like the kind of guns that would have turned up in, you know, mind warp or something.

536
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:45.239
I gather that there was some idea that they were actually an animal in in a sort of frame that finds the sort of disintegration thing, but perhaps that just didn't properly make it to screen.

537
00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:48.360
But yeah, like they look like sort of giant lobsters.

538
00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:48.960
Yes.

539
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.739
And we get all the scarecrows attacking...

540
00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:54.659
I'm sure the guns seemed like a good idea at the time.

541
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

542
00:41:55.800 --> 00:42:05.400
Well, you know, like Doctor Who at this time actually does quite a good job of trying to differentiate things like spaceships and guns and stuff, like to try and, this is the prop from last year that we've just spray painted.

543
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:06.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

544
00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:06.659
Exactly.

545
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:08.340
But I love the cliff.

546
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.940
I love this whole cliffhanger whereby the doctor isn't there to save the day.

547
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.460
John Smith is flailing.

548
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:16.860
Martha is the one that they know.

549
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:23.699
And there's dialogue that he has at the end there. like your friend or your lover.

550
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:25.980
Your choice.

551
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:28.800
I can't even do it half as good, but it's just...

552
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.179
He's really good.

553
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:31.019
Fantastic.

554
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:32.219
I do want to spend some time next week.

555
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:34.199
Yes, I'm saving it for next week.

556
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:35.519
He's really tripping.

557
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:39.539
All of that, it's sort of slightly low scale, isn't it?

558
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:50.699
But it is super interesting because the doctor's absent and because a decision is being given to someone who really has no idea and I don't think we could even be confident how he would decide.

559
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:53.579
No, how are we going to get out of this?

560
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:54.599
Yeah, yeah.

561
00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:55.500
Yes.

562
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:57.480
I think that's what that's what makes it strong.

563
00:42:57.539 --> 00:43:00.539
And it's so exciting that, you know, the universe isn't about to be destroyed or something.

564
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.460
You know, it's so much better than it's just about this.

565
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:11.039
I also love the fact that the next time on Doctor Who, when you watch it, actually doesn't give anything away for next week.

566
00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:12.659
The way it's cut together is very clever.

567
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:16.980
Yeah, it cheats horribly, but we'll talk more about that next week.

568
00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:19.980
Because it uses sequences from the end of the episode, right?

569
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:26.519
But I do like that because quite often next times give quite a bit away.

570
00:43:26.579 --> 00:43:33.119
Whereas, whereas I just felt watching and I'm going, yeah, I like the fact that it's a misdirection in the way it's cut together.

571
00:43:33.179 --> 00:43:47.400
I just think that the whole thing does have a classic series cliffhanger feel to it. a better classic series cliffhanger feel where you it builds up in the last few minutes to the cliffhanger itself.

572
00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:49.380
It's sort of a bit logical.

573
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:56.880
At the same time, it's it's delightful because it is a contrived moment.

574
00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:05.039
And when it's all resolved next week, you could cut out the three, 4 minutes surround it and the story would have just continued.

575
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:09.960
You know, without this contrivance in the middle of it, which also gives it a very comforting feel.

576
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:13.860
Comforting in a Doctor Who kind of work, comforting that this is how things are done.

577
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:33.539
There's a confidence in this production in terms of the performances in terms of the dialogue, the music, and the design that for me makes this episode up to this point in this season, along with Shakespeare code, my favourite 2 episodes up to this point in the season.

578
00:44:33.659 --> 00:44:34.980
I just think this is really strong.

579
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.139
It's not my favourite thing ever.

580
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:42.719
Like I'm going to give it 8.5 out of 10, but I think it's a really solid episode of Doctor Who.

581
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:18.900
Well, dear listener, this fruit cup isn't going to drink itself, so we're going to grab a paper cup and a chair while we wait a week for Mr. Smith to make his terrible decision.

582
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.679
We'll be back next week to check in on the family of blood.

583
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:28.679
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com.

584
00:45:28.739 --> 00:45:32.280
Flight through entirety on Facebook and at FDE podcast on Twitter.

585
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:47.579
You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody Interterterra at Jody Interterra.com and at Jody Interterra on Twitter and our James Bond Commentary Podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com, at bondfinger on Facebook, and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

586
00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:52.380
Until next time, remember not to let me eat pears.

587
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:53.820
I hate pears.

588
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:55.980
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

589
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:57.300
See you soon.

590
00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:58.019
Till next time.

591
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:05.639
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottleley, and Simon Moore.

592
00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:09.119
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

593
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:15.119
This episode, dropped into Downton Abbey, was recorded on the 18th of August 2019 and released on the 3rd of November.

594
00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:31.079
The Chameleon Arch was originally invented by Terence Deeks, who intended it to be used by John Pertwee's doctor, so he could become human and vote for Edward Heath in the 1974 general election.

595
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:36.480
It is very needed to mention that I was in it.

596
00:46:36.539 --> 00:46:37.260
That was really all.

597
00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:40.199
I'm in one and I can't remember which one I'm in.

598
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:41.639
I don't have a cold in one of them.

599
00:46:41.699 --> 00:46:43.019
You died of what?

600
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:43.619
A cold.

601
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:46.980
Not in that one, but in another one.

602
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:48.360
Is that because of Voltana or something?

603
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:49.679
I get Voltron.

604
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:50.340
I don't know.

605
00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:52.619
What a story.

606
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:55.559
Martha is paired up with.