WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:59:37

1
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.359
Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

2
00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:43.140
the only Doctor Who podcast that can smell David Tennant from the

3
00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:44.460
other side of the universe.

4
00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:46.079
I'm Nathan.

5
00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:47.039
I'm Todd.

6
00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:48.119
And I'm Simon.

7
00:00:48.179 --> 00:00:49.979
Well, the fruit cup has run out.

8
00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.619
The band is nowhere to be seen, and we've been sitting here

9
00:00:52.619 --> 00:00:55.799
awkwardly for an entire week waiting for Mr. Smith to make his

10
00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:56.579
terrible decision.

11
00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.920
Who will live and who will die?

12
00:00:58.979 --> 00:01:01.920
Let's find out as we discuss the family of blood.

13
00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:16.980
You didn't notice that there didn't seem to be any visible band of

14
00:01:16.980 --> 00:01:17.280
any kind.

15
00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:19.200
No, I did not.

16
00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:21.299
The music's just coming out of thin air.

17
00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:25.140
It is. did not notice that. you kidding me?

18
00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:27.599
Maybe they're the 1st ones to be vaporised, please.

19
00:01:27.659 --> 00:01:29.340
Oh, no way.

20
00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:30.299
Yep they're not visible.

21
00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:34.140
It's basically a pretty lavish looking production, I have to say

22
00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:38.519
but there are some obvious cheaping... funny.

23
00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:39.299
I disagree with that.

24
00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:42.120
No, I'm not saying it doesn't look good.

25
00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:45.959
I'm just saying it doesn't look like they need to spend a lot of

26
00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:47.099
money on it because it's all easy.

27
00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.739
Because it's all sort of locations.

28
00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:50.219
Yeah, yeah.

29
00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:51.719
The church hall and, you know.

30
00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:53.519
You know, they have a lot of background artists.

31
00:01:53.579 --> 00:01:55.859
They do. which is refreshing.

32
00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:57.959
Yeah, yeah, that is kind of nice.

33
00:01:58.019 --> 00:02:02.340
And particularly in this episode, because you've got the scene in

34
00:02:02.340 --> 00:02:07.019
the village hall and you've got, you know, a whole heap of boys at

35
00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:07.379
the school.

36
00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:08.280
Yeah, yeah.

37
00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:10.259
The place seems populated.

38
00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.439
And there are a lot of, they must be sort of digitally kind of

39
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:16.560
doubled or tripled or quadrupled or something.

40
00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:17.939
The scarecrow.

41
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.919
Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of them in the attack.

42
00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:21.599
How do they make them again?

43
00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:22.979
We don't know.

44
00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.680
But son of mine says that he created them.

45
00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:26.340
Yes.

46
00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:27.719
Very quickly.

47
00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:28.080
Yes.

48
00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:29.939
Oh, who cares?

49
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.479
But the thing is, though, that it's quite clear he's taken the

50
00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:35.400
template of one and somehow duplicated.

51
00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:37.979
It's not like every farmer in the area has the same looking

52
00:02:37.979 --> 00:02:39.000
scarecrow.

53
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.060
That's the implication is that he's also stitched them together.

54
00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:44.460
Anthony anally turns up.

55
00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:47.159
Dusting the dusting the hay off.

56
00:02:47.219 --> 00:02:48.960
What do we think of the scarecrows?

57
00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:51.960
I think they're brilliant and I think they're brilliant because of

58
00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:52.860
the way they move.

59
00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:59.039
The weird lumbering where you're not sure which bits are joined

60
00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.039
you know, where is the shoulder, where is the elbow and I think

61
00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:03.000
that's quite effective.

62
00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:05.759
They've got very sort of floppy limbs as if they have no.

63
00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:06.960
As if they're made of straw, yeah.

64
00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:10.979
And I think the face too, which is very kind of skull like.

65
00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:11.639
Yes.

66
00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.819
And the stitching over the lips and things.

67
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:16.680
It's quite grotesque actually.

68
00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:21.599
We have had scarecrows before, but they've always been sort of

69
00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:25.259
adjacent to Doctor Who, not really in the actual show.

70
00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:31.439
So you remember that the 2nd doctor meets his demise at the hands

71
00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:37.080
of some scarecrows in the comics in season 6B. And I think Doctor

72
00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:38.280
Who meets Scratch Man.

73
00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:40.620
Does that have some scarecrows in it?

74
00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:41.580
I think it probably does.

75
00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:43.620
So we've never had them before.

76
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:48.060
And this is a story that would otherwise completely lack non-human

77
00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:49.259
monsters, isn't it?

78
00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:50.699
Yes.

79
00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.419
So if you want merch or if you want things for the kids to be

80
00:03:54.419 --> 00:03:55.379
fine.

81
00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:57.960
Yeah, you need you need them, I think.

82
00:03:58.259 --> 00:04:01.439
Wasn't there a straw queen of the May in an episode?

83
00:04:01.500 --> 00:04:03.120
No, that was Tegan.

84
00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:09.479
But as usual, and I've said this before, and I'll say it again, if

85
00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:10.439
I'm given the opportunity.

86
00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:16.680
The best Doctor Who stories often have no, or the monster that is

87
00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.519
the sideline.

88
00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:21.180
The real villain is a human or humanoid type figure.

89
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.620
Well, I mean we do get that here.

90
00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:23.459
Exactly.

91
00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:23.819
Yeah.

92
00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:24.600
That's what I'm saying.

93
00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:25.379
It's a thing.

94
00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:27.060
The scarecrows are just window dressing.

95
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:27.480
Yeah.

96
00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:30.060
Well, it's a thing that Holmes does very often, isn't it?

97
00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.360
Where he's given some stupid monster and he's sort of fairly

98
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:35.279
confident that they're not going to be able to realise it

99
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:35.819
properly.

100
00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:40.019
And so he makes the humans the villains and he's doing it all the

101
00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:41.759
way back from...

102
00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.040
Whether it's Harrison Chase, whether it's at least, whether it's

103
00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.040
you know, the towns of Winchang, uh, periods of Mars even.

104
00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:48.959
You know, you've got Suttech. it's a voice.

105
00:04:49.019 --> 00:04:51.240
I mean, you know, he's a, for all all intents and purposes

106
00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:51.779
humanoid.

107
00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:55.259
The mummies are just window dressing.

108
00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:55.680
Yeah.

109
00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.060
Yeah, I think they're effective.

110
00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:57.959
I think they look really good.

111
00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.740
Those scenes where they attack Mr. Clark and Lucy Cartwright in

112
00:05:01.740 --> 00:05:02.579
last week's episode.

113
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.379
I thought they were really effective.

114
00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:08.519
Here they work really well kind of thematically.

115
00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.339
Because we get that attack on the school.

116
00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:13.980
And one of the things that we haven't really properly mentioned is

117
00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:19.319
that the spectre of World War one hangs over this.

118
00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:27.720
And the boys are training in a sort of army cadets unit, like sort

119
00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:32.279
of posh expensive schools in Sydney now have army cadets units

120
00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.399
still, you know, I don't think they have machine guns though.

121
00:05:35.459 --> 00:05:36.959
They tend not to, no.

122
00:05:37.019 --> 00:05:38.759
But we had a rifle range at school.

123
00:05:38.819 --> 00:05:40.139
Yes, but we didn't have a machine gun.

124
00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:44.399
I mean, you know, we had a, we had a, we shot 6 bullets or

125
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:45.000
something like that.

126
00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:46.379
Have you shot a gun?

127
00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:47.040
Yes.

128
00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:48.540
Yes, we did cadets at school?

129
00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:49.019
Wow.

130
00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:49.740
Okay.

131
00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:51.540
It wasn't compulsory at my school.

132
00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:58.620
So these are boys who will be being killed in a year's time.

133
00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:03.420
You know, like it's going to be 1914 and they're going to be

134
00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:05.639
fighting in France or whatever.

135
00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:09.120
I think they had originally intended to set this before World War

136
00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:14.579
II, but decided to set it before World War one, partly, I think

137
00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:19.800
because during production, the story got closer and closer to the

138
00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:20.879
original novel.

139
00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:23.399
Oh, it started further away, yeah.

140
00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:24.240
I think so.

141
00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:29.519
And Paul says that, you know, he would hand the script to Russell

142
00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:32.040
and Russell will say, but what about this bit in the novel?

143
00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:32.879
I really liked that.

144
00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:35.100
And so he would put it in?

145
00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:38.399
And so, you know, there are ways in which it's quite far away from

146
00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:40.800
the novel, but there are ways in which it is quite close

147
00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:43.560
particularly the ending, which we'll talk about a little bit

148
00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:43.860
later.

149
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:51.540
But that scene where the boys are being given the guns and that's

150
00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:52.379
when they're really young.

151
00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:55.980
You know, Hutchison and Baines are clearly adults, played by

152
00:06:55.980 --> 00:06:59.220
adults, but the background artists aren't.

153
00:06:59.339 --> 00:07:01.199
They're all very young.

154
00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:02.040
Yeah, yeah.

155
00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.939
But what, I don't know whether you're about to go there about the

156
00:07:05.939 --> 00:07:07.980
the way they mow the scarecrows down.

157
00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:11.939
You see, that is very World War one. the mowing down.

158
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.579
And they are, you know, and mowing down people as if they are just

159
00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:15.300
scarecrows.

160
00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:17.279
And the boys are crying.

161
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:21.120
Like while they're doing it, the boys are crying and even

162
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:26.040
Hutchison, who has been like horrible, like is a sort of horrible

163
00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:29.519
person in the 1st episode, is shaken as well.

164
00:07:29.579 --> 00:07:33.300
So you see these shots of boys with tears in their eyes gunning

165
00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:33.660
people down.

166
00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.879
Isn't there to be a pilgrim?

167
00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:37.980
Song playing over the top of that?

168
00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:38.879
Yeah, yeah.

169
00:07:38.939 --> 00:07:44.819
Yeah, and again, that's, you know, World War one is big European

170
00:07:44.819 --> 00:07:52.500
Christian empires killing 1000000s of each other's citizens, you

171
00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:56.759
know, like the Christianity can't be kind of separated from it, I

172
00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:56.939
think.

173
00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:02.040
It's interesting in that whole sequence that the doctor, sorry

174
00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.100
John Smith doesn't appear to fire a gun.

175
00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:05.879
Yeah.

176
00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:07.199
And he puts the gun down.

177
00:08:07.259 --> 00:08:09.779
I think it's more explicit in the novel again where he doesn't

178
00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:14.279
shoot, but I don't think we could have tolerated seeing the doctor

179
00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:16.379
gunning people down.

180
00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:17.759
No.

181
00:08:17.819 --> 00:08:21.000
But the thing about the World War one thing, I mean, I can

182
00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.740
understand because no one in 1913 or even in April 1914 would have

183
00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:29.220
had any idea in terms of the people in charge, quote unquote, would

184
00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:30.779
have had any idea that there was about to be war.

185
00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:33.840
It was such a weird, stupid, peculiar series of events and

186
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.360
treaties activating and all this kind of other nonsense that got

187
00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:36.899
them into it.

188
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:41.460
Whereas I think if it was 1938, say, we would have known it was

189
00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:41.879
something.

190
00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.279
Because everyone's got that sense there is war coming, there is

191
00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.100
war coming because this is all going on in Europe.

192
00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:51.419
So I think it can work that they're gunning down all these

193
00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:55.919
scarecrows and that's kind of a premonition of World War I without

194
00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:58.679
them all thinking, a war is coming, war is coming because no one

195
00:08:58.679 --> 00:08:59.039
thought that.

196
00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:01.200
Well, Baines thinks it though.

197
00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:05.639
And so he sees himself as sort of, you know, prefiguring World War

198
00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.720
one in that scene by sending his soldiers to to be shot down by

199
00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:12.779
children whom he knows will be fighting.

200
00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.279
But that's just because he knows the future.

201
00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:16.559
Yeah, because he's, you know, a space guy or whatever.

202
00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:20.039
And, you know, his reason for knowing about the war is sort of

203
00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:22.740
fairly thin, but it does sort of need to be there.

204
00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:28.200
And the story is very positive about World War one.

205
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:29.820
I think in a sense.

206
00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.559
Not positive about World War I in the sense that it was a good

207
00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:36.480
thing and let's have more of them.

208
00:09:36.539 --> 00:09:44.820
But the only person who expresses reservations about the war isn't

209
00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:46.679
the doctor, it's Baines.

210
00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:53.220
Do you remember when he dresses down the headmaster and says, you

211
00:09:53.220 --> 00:09:56.100
know, what are they going to think of you when you've taught them

212
00:09:56.100 --> 00:09:58.620
to be in a war like this, what will they think of the man who

213
00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:02.580
taught them this was glorious as they're all being gunned down?

214
00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:08.340
And giving that, that idea that the 1st World War is in some sense

215
00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:15.120
sort of futile or pointless or some horrible cheat that sort of

216
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.480
perpetrated on the populations, the unwitting populations of all

217
00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.500
of these countries, that gets given to baits and no one else

218
00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:23.279
expresses that.

219
00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:29.639
For everyone else, we imagine that they see this as fighting the

220
00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:30.360
king's enemies.

221
00:10:30.419 --> 00:10:32.220
And certainly when the king and country.

222
00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:33.059
Yeah, yeah.

223
00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:38.879
And that's how that scene with the scarecrows is couched.

224
00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:40.019
It's couched in those terms.

225
00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:43.080
They speak about fighting the king's enemies and defending his

226
00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.679
properties and stuff when they're fighting off the scarecrows.

227
00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:54.059
Joan, of course, knows has read the doctor's diary and John

228
00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.799
Smith's diary, I should say, and he references 1914 and what is to

229
00:10:58.799 --> 00:10:58.980
come.

230
00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:01.799
So she's got in her talk with the doctor.

231
00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:05.580
She knows that it's wrong for the boys to fight or John Smith

232
00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:06.000
knows.

233
00:11:06.059 --> 00:11:07.500
Yeah, yeah.

234
00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:09.899
And she would like to think that John Smith thinks that too.

235
00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:15.659
Even though last week, she very nearly puts an end to the

236
00:11:15.659 --> 00:11:20.399
relationship, I think, when she sees him training the boys to

237
00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:20.940
shoot.

238
00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:26.399
It's just after John Smith says to Hutchison that he can beat

239
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:27.840
Latimer.

240
00:11:27.899 --> 00:11:28.200
Yeah.

241
00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:31.799
And she kind of walks away and says, look, I was remembering my

242
00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:32.519
husband who died.

243
00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:36.360
And so she is the one, I guess, expressing reservations, but

244
00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.480
everyone else thinks war is really quite glorious at this point.

245
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.399
Make a man of you.

246
00:11:41.460 --> 00:11:41.940
Yeah.

247
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.559
Well, I wish they'd make a man of Latimer, because he does resolve

248
00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.220
the cliffhanger resolution with opening the watch, and that gives

249
00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:59.639
Martha the opportunity to seize the gun and take control of that

250
00:11:59.639 --> 00:11:59.940
situation.

251
00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.100
It has to be Martha that doesn't.

252
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:05.159
You can't have the John Smith, the human John Smith, resolve the

253
00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:06.000
Cliffhanger.

254
00:12:06.059 --> 00:12:06.600
No, no.

255
00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:08.399
Because that's the point of the Cliffhanger.

256
00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:08.820
Yeah, yeah.

257
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:11.879
But it's another reason why she's so good in these episodes.

258
00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:16.019
She's got so many great moments and her Sass comes back in this

259
00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:16.440
episode.

260
00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:20.639
Like in her bits of dialogue, like, God, you're rubbish as a

261
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:20.940
human.

262
00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.139
I've got that written down here too.

263
00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:27.179
And then and then with Nurse Redfern, when she doesn't believe

264
00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:29.940
that she's training to be a doctor and she goes, oh, you think?

265
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.940
Like, I just love the fact that she's standing up.

266
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:36.659
In fact, those are my favourite sort of Martha Lyon readings, I

267
00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:41.159
think, where she's just a little bit kind of sassy and naughty.

268
00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:43.740
Like she tends to be quite a good girl.

269
00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:48.179
But every so often she hits back with a zinger and I think Freeman

270
00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:48.779
plays that really well.

271
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.340
It's something in my rewatch that, you know, she's under control

272
00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:56.460
most of the time she's handling situation, but every so often she

273
00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:58.919
lets that little bit of a fire out.

274
00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:00.659
I really, really love it.

275
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.539
And it's why she's my MVP for these episodes.

276
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.320
And of course, later on, in this episode, you know, is the doctor

277
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.899
sort of, I keep saying the doctor.

278
00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.440
But as John Smith keeps saying, like putting it down, what exactly

279
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:14.399
do you do for him?

280
00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:16.320
And she has to justify that.

281
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:19.440
And she says, he's everything to me and I love him to bits, but he

282
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:20.279
won't even look at me.

283
00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:22.080
That moment is glorious.

284
00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:25.200
Well, in fact, I quite like a bit of dialogue saying, I really

285
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.039
hope that he doesn't remember this because she's sort of genre

286
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:30.299
aware to some degree.

287
00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:31.019
Yes, yes.

288
00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:33.659
And it turns out he does remember it, and they do have an awkward

289
00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:35.879
moment discussing it at the end, which is kind of funny.

290
00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:36.899
That's kind of quite cute.

291
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.679
We did touch a little bit in last week's episode about Harry

292
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:42.120
Lloyd's performances, Baines.

293
00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:46.860
It is so good when he becomes possessed as son of mine or

294
00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:51.659
reanimated or whatever he is, but it's aided by the direction by

295
00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:56.340
the shot choices by the choice of lens, the way when they're doing

296
00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:57.419
the sniffing thing.

297
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:01.500
And it's really fast and sharp and it cuts to this.

298
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:05.220
I don't know whether it's a fish eye type lens almost, but it's

299
00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:09.120
really, it's from the side and it accentuates the shape of his

300
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.940
face in a way to make it look, because he's quite attractive

301
00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:12.120
right?

302
00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:15.899
He's a very attractive bloke, but they kind of defort, almost

303
00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:19.799
deform the shape of his face, to make it like unnatural, that, you

304
00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:20.940
know, this is not Baines anymore.

305
00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:22.679
This is not a human, this is an animated corpse.

306
00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:25.860
He's in the Merlin, isn't he?

307
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:27.240
Isn't he a regular in Merlin?

308
00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:31.139
Well, he's No, he's in the 1st in a 1st season of Game of Thrones

309
00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:34.259
is Janeris's brother and he meets a terrible fate there.

310
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.500
Because I remember, but again, upperclass twit in the same way.

311
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:39.899
But he's not like that in real life, actually.

312
00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:42.000
I think we had to eat it, I was reading.

313
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.460
But he doesn't look like that.

314
00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:45.480
Do you know what I mean?

315
00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:46.620
He looks much more relaxed.

316
00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.500
He was sort of bearded and stuff in the confidential, possibly.

317
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:51.480
And I think he was...

318
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.200
Everyone's bearded now.

319
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:52.799
Yeah, well.

320
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:57.059
No, but I think he was in a regular kind of genre program and did

321
00:14:57.059 --> 00:14:58.919
seem to be a little bit more relaxed.

322
00:14:58.980 --> 00:14:59.759
Not like that at all.

323
00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.940
But the performance is really, really fun.

324
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:08.639
And he's adopted all that sort of shouty military crap from the

325
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.399
headmaster. from his teachers and stuff.

326
00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:15.539
And so he comes back and brings that back to them.

327
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:19.200
I'm only surprised that he hasn't done more, like that I can

328
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.779
remember, like in terms of film and that sort of thing.

329
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.179
Like it's now been 11, 12 years.

330
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.100
I'm really surprised.

331
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:30.179
And it's a shame that in Game of Thrones, he gets killed because

332
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:33.659
in some respects, if he hadn't if that character hadn't have been

333
00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:36.000
killed a few episodes into the 1st season of Game of Thrones, he

334
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.820
probably would have gone on to great and glorious things.

335
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.120
As being catapulted from Game of Thrones, like it's done for so

336
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:42.720
many of the others.

337
00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:45.779
Yeah, I don't know why I'm not remembering what he's been in

338
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.899
because I just kind of think he has been in things, but I've just

339
00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:49.620
sort of missed them.

340
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.120
But there is a glorious shot.

341
00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:53.399
I don't know if it's him and mother of mine.

342
00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:56.519
It's a high shot, like, taken from the school or somewhere and

343
00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:57.000
they're standing.

344
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.379
And it doesn't look like him.

345
00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:59.399
It literally does.

346
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.279
I thought this is a stand-in actor and I had to pause the thing

347
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.940
and it is him, but just the way it's totally framed.

348
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:06.840
He's so alien.

349
00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:07.799
He is so good.

350
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.379
But she, I also think Jenny is also great.

351
00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:13.860
And there's a reason why those 2 are the central figures.

352
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:17.340
I think they cut around that little girl a bit and their father's

353
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:17.820
competent.

354
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:24.360
But if I can say too, they all, but particularly, veins and Jenny

355
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:28.980
too, they managed to chew the scenery without eating the entire

356
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:29.399
thing.

357
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.860
There is a there is a...

358
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.480
No, no, but that's the glory, the best Doctor Who villains, the

359
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.240
Harrison Chases, and like how I keep coming back to my note, they

360
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:40.679
are, it is a camp performance.

361
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:44.340
It's over the top, but it works in the context and there's a very

362
00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:48.480
very, very fine line that has to be walked to make it work and to

363
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.519
not make it look like it's hammy.

364
00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:55.679
And I think it's achieved by a director who maybe knows when to

365
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:59.039
say just dial it back a fraction there, darling, or something.

366
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.000
And also using the shots and editing in a way so that it doesn't

367
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:03.720
become dominant.

368
00:17:03.779 --> 00:17:06.119
You know, otherwise it does look like Paul Darrow in Timelash

369
00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:07.380
think they do a great job.

370
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.039
I think they all all of them do, but obviously they concentrate on

371
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.960
the 2 strongest ones.

372
00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:17.400
They're really, really terrific and absolutely kind of off-putting

373
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.880
because it's an off-putting performance. like quite a deliberately

374
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.319
of putting performance.

375
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:26.279
The director is, of course, Charles Palmer, who is the son of

376
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.180
Doctor Who alumnus Jeffrey Palmer.

377
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.599
He'll be turning up in one of his son's episodes.

378
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:34.920
Very, very soon.

379
00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:38.519
Yeah, so he directs Voyage of the Damned, where Jeffrey Palmer

380
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.420
drives the Titanic into an iceberg or...

381
00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:48.000
But he'd obviously been in the in the Doctor Who in the 70s, sort

382
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.119
of quite a lot and was a sort of terribly famous sitcom accurate.

383
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:52.079
Yes, wonderful.

384
00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:54.059
Yeah, so Charles Palmer is his son.

385
00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:55.019
And I think he's extremely good.

386
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:56.279
Like I think he does a great job.

387
00:17:56.339 --> 00:18:02.579
I like the choice of giving the family of blood, no visible alien

388
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.880
characteristics, but giving them a sort of a green colour because

389
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.380
the colour of aliens is green.

390
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.319
And so whenever they talk to one another telepathically, we just

391
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:11.819
get a green line on their face.

392
00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:13.799
And it's just a practical light.

393
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:16.019
It's not a post-production effect or anything.

394
00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:17.220
I'd forgotten all of that.

395
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.180
It's one of my, my, my mental black hats.

396
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.359
But no, honestly, I'd forgotten that that was the way in which

397
00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:25.200
they communicated.

398
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:27.299
I do have to say one thing at this point.

399
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.779
We've been praising this episode and we'll praise it the ending

400
00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:31.680
and we'll praise.

401
00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:34.799
I think I think you love the music, but I have to say this is the

402
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:38.460
1st episode of New Who that I actually was disappointed in.

403
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.579
I came in with an expectation, the first.

404
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.220
I came in with an expectation of what I was going to get.

405
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:50.039
And I guess I've had various expectations of other episodes, some

406
00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.859
very low and they've lived up to those expectations.

407
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.440
But with this one, I came in thinking, yeah, I'm going, this is

408
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.079
going to be knocking it out at the ballpark all throughout the

409
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:58.380
episode.

410
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:04.559
And about, I don't know, 10 minutes in, I was just beginning to

411
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:09.000
lose hope from 2 perspectives.

412
00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:16.319
One was John Smith and him going on and on and on about why can't

413
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:20.880
I stay and I just wanted it to stop and the other one was Latimer

414
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:21.539
with the watch.

415
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.059
How many times can you open that thing or run away to a different

416
00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:24.599
location?

417
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:28.019
And I just found that personally, I just thought the episode was

418
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:31.079
marking time for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, I'm going, I just want

419
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:32.220
this thing resolved.

420
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.099
I know that sounds slack because I actually like, I think this is

421
00:19:35.099 --> 00:19:35.880
a good episode.

422
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:38.640
I actually enjoy overall this episode in the last 10 minutes.

423
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:39.720
I think are extraordinary.

424
00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:44.160
But I did have a problem in this middle part of the episode.

425
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:49.200
I certainly think that Latimer keeping the watch is just spinning

426
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.819
the episode out.

427
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:55.259
You know, when he finally surrenders the watch.

428
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.039
And I think he's even asked why didn't you do it before?

429
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:02.759
And he says, oh, you know, the watch told me, the watch told me.

430
00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:06.000
And that does seem to be kind of artificially delaying things a

431
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.299
bit.

432
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:11.160
And I do think that scene where Nurse Redford takes them to that

433
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.539
house and then they just sit around talking for a very, very long

434
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:16.200
time.

435
00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:19.559
Like, I think that starts to wear out its welcome a little bit.

436
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:21.900
I do think that scene is really good.

437
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:26.279
I love the idea that it was little Lucy Cartwright's house and her

438
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:27.720
family have all been murdered.

439
00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:28.680
I have a little her father.

440
00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:31.799
Yes, that's it's very nicely done and very subtle and it's that

441
00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:33.119
thing of that there are consequences.

442
00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.400
I'm sorry, but I've forgotten.

443
00:20:35.460 --> 00:20:36.839
I didn't even remember.

444
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:38.160
I just thought this little girl's dead.

445
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:39.240
Her family are going to be devastated.

446
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.279
And then they said, 0 no, she's actually murdered them all.

447
00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:44.339
And I'm just there going, well, that's something new I

448
00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:44.700
discovered.

449
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.319
And the teapot's ice stone cold.

450
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:47.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

451
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.759
It's quite gruesome, actually, in a nice underplay sort of way.

452
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:51.960
It's very well known.

453
00:20:52.019 --> 00:20:54.539
And thanks to Jessica Hines, I think, because she's the one who

454
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:58.259
properly sells it because the idea is that she has already worked

455
00:20:58.259 --> 00:20:59.819
out that this has happened.

456
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.539
She goes to that house because she knows it will be deserted

457
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:07.980
because she knows that daughter of mine will have killed Lucy

458
00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:09.299
Cartwright's entire family.

459
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.740
And he's unlikely to return there.

460
00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:13.740
And I think she says, you know, how quickly we come to accept

461
00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:15.359
these things or something like that.

462
00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.339
And that will pay off.

463
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.660
And I think it matters that so much of the episode takes place

464
00:21:21.660 --> 00:21:25.019
there because it's just a reminder of what has happened.

465
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.519
And at the end of the episode where Jones gets to speak to the

466
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:33.119
doctor himself, it really pays off.

467
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:34.380
It does.

468
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.940
And in fact, it's interesting.

469
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.400
She's, well, because one imagines she has an apartment at the

470
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.039
school, so she hasn't have a house and yeah, so she's sort of

471
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:42.000
sitting in that house.

472
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:45.420
It's nice because it adds a different, extra location and I think

473
00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:47.940
that it's nice when you get that, you know, the new location

474
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:50.819
appears in, you know, episode 3 or something and takes you through

475
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:51.359
the end.

476
00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:54.660
It's like the new home base and it's somewhere where you think the

477
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:58.259
characters can feel safe when the world around them is totally

478
00:21:58.259 --> 00:21:59.279
going to hell.

479
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:08.400
If I can just sort of come to, and Todd, you touched on it with

480
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.079
Tenant's performances, John Smith.

481
00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:17.640
He starts last week's episode with a bit of 1913 acting in a

482
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.859
pretty minor tokenistic way.

483
00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:24.059
And I think, especially during the 2nd episode, it does descend

484
00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:28.319
into it just being the normal David Tennant performance of the

485
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:28.740
doctor.

486
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.319
I think it's...

487
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:32.819
Now, there could be reasons for this.

488
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.400
There's artistic choices and they're all valid and so on.

489
00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:40.500
But it was when I was watching the 2nd episode that I felt that

490
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:44.819
there was a missed opportunity for both the program and for tenant

491
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:45.720
himself as an actor.

492
00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:49.680
When you consider Patrick Trouton's performance as salamander in

493
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.460
enemy of the world.

494
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.880
Now, I know salamander is actually a different character, whereas

495
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.700
you know, this is actually supposed to just be, you know, a

496
00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:58.619
watered down version of the doctor.

497
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.519
But this could have been a beautiful way for him to get rid of the

498
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:07.559
stupid gelled hair and have a very kind of slick, 1913 Edwardian

499
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:12.119
early Georgian sort of hairstyle for him to speak much more poshly

500
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.819
than he does and much more kind of middle, in that very middle

501
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.640
class version of posh, particularly in the sort of the early 20th

502
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.059
century.

503
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:21.059
And also for his character at that moment where they've got to

504
00:23:21.059 --> 00:23:23.819
decide, are we going to open the watch, are we not?

505
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.119
You got to do this, and she's the one who has to convince him, and

506
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.119
I know that's part of it, that she's the one being strong.

507
00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:34.859
But surely the human John Smith would be very stoic and I've got

508
00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:36.059
to do this for kicking country.

509
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:39.779
I've got to sacrifice myself rather than going to pieces a little

510
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:39.960
bit.

511
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:43.740
I don't think I agree with you about Tennant's performance, but I

512
00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:47.640
do agree with you about, you know, like about that choice.

513
00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:52.500
Like, I think Tenet really, really differentiates John Smith from

514
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:55.619
his normal performance as the doctor.

515
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.799
And there's that moment, remember, when he's holding the watch, and

516
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:03.240
then he tells Tim why it is that he's got precognition.

517
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:04.980
And, oh my god, the doctor's back.

518
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.900
And we haven't really seen Tenant do that in that outfit at all.

519
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.019
And Tenant's outfit is a modified version of his normal outfit

520
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:15.660
with same colour scheme.

521
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

522
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.680
Like the tie looks like it's a version of one of his normal ties

523
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.759
that's kind of been chopped up and turned into a bow tie in this

524
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.980
sort of final episode.

525
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.480
So I think he does maintain a big distinction between the 2

526
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:35.579
characters, but I don't like the muleing, crying performance that

527
00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:37.259
John Smith does.

528
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:42.119
And I do think a bit more bravery would have been, or anger

529
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:42.720
perhaps.

530
00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:46.319
You know, if it had been anger, but it's blubbing.

531
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.180
And I just... right.

532
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.119
And I just find myself with very little sympathy for it

533
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:52.740
particularly as it goes on and on.

534
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.740
And, you know, we're getting to the point where, you know, they're

535
00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:59.460
raining down destruction on the entire village where there's, you

536
00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:04.859
know, space bombs raining down everywhere and he's still crying

537
00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:05.460
about it.

538
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:09.660
Because he should be, the distilled nature of who the doctor is

539
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:12.839
even if he's been turned into a human should be about what's the

540
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:13.619
right thing to do.

541
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.940
I will sacrifice myself.

542
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:15.779
He, you know, he does it.

543
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.000
The David Tennant doctor at the end of his reign does that.

544
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:19.140
He sacrificed himself.

545
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.079
The doctor's always sacrificing himself at the end mainly when it

546
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.700
comes to regenerations and stuff.

547
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:27.359
It's a shame that Joan has to convince him that that's the right

548
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:27.839
thing to do.

549
00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:30.779
I think that anger would have been appropriate as well.

550
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:37.380
But I guess what I do like is that Jones anger only really, really

551
00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:42.119
properly becomes apparent when she's faced with the doctor at the

552
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:42.359
end.

553
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:45.000
And I think that's so amazing.

554
00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:49.920
The bit where she says, would anyone have died if you just hadn't

555
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.599
decided to come here on a whim?

556
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:54.720
And that is, I think, perhaps the only time in the program, one of

557
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:57.299
the few times in the program, certainly, where they use those

558
00:25:57.299 --> 00:25:59.579
sorts of lines, and it's true.

559
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.359
Because the doctor has actually come to this village to escape, to

560
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:04.200
hide, right?

561
00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:08.039
He's not because the alien menaces dragged him there or he happens

562
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.380
to have arrived there and discovered the alien menace.

563
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.359
He has brought the alien menace to this place.

564
00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:15.779
Often when it's, you know, like the doctor turns up and, you know

565
00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:18.059
it's a thing in the program, isn't it?

566
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.640
The doctor's dangerous, the doctor turns up and... it's so

567
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:21.420
overdone and I hate it.

568
00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:23.160
And it's never his fault, really, or whatever.

569
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:26.339
But here, every single death.

570
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.099
Like, you know, we've spent so much time in a house where the

571
00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:31.440
entire family's dead, and that's the doctor's fault.

572
00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:33.539
And she just says, go away.

573
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.019
You know, like she's furious with him and doesn't overplay it at

574
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:37.500
all.

575
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.000
No, but it's just get out.

576
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:42.119
You know, like I'm not going to travel with you because you are a

577
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:46.259
monster who put me through this and put everyone else through it.

578
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:51.420
The fact that the doctor even asked her to travel with me, I think

579
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:52.259
is clueless.

580
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah, absolutely clue. and absolutely galling.

581
00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:56.400
And, you know, and she says that's not fair.

582
00:26:56.700 --> 00:26:57.240
Yes.

583
00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.640
She's already said she can't bear to look at it.

584
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:04.799
Jessica Hines' performance in this is just sublime.

585
00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:06.539
She is amazing.

586
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:09.779
The characterisation in the way that it's written as well and

587
00:27:09.779 --> 00:27:15.599
directed, but without her having that inner strength and that

588
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.279
insight throughout all these episodes.

589
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.119
It's a mark of a very good actor because what she's done is she's

590
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:22.019
looked at the script.

591
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:24.240
She's looked at the reasons why this character is saying the words

592
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.079
that they are and she's she's got the thought process of what is

593
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.319
this character thinking at this time and you can see it written on

594
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:31.559
her face.

595
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:46.140
So I was complaining about the middle part of the episode.

596
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.779
We're now talking about the back end of the episode.

597
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:54.240
All these wonderful scenes with Martha with Nurse Redfern.

598
00:27:54.299 --> 00:27:59.160
There's also just the brilliant montage of the life that could

599
00:27:59.160 --> 00:27:59.519
have been.

600
00:27:59.579 --> 00:28:02.759
That was the cheat that I was talking about because that's in the

601
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:07.140
next time trailer as if the doctor is going to have the rest of

602
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:07.500
his days.

603
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:08.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

604
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:09.000
Oh, that's all right.

605
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:09.839
But I love that.

606
00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:13.440
I adore that sequence and it pulls at your heartstrings.

607
00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:15.059
And notice that they both see it.

608
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:16.859
Like she sees it too.

609
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.740
So she sees what both of them are giving up.

610
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:27.960
Do you feel that they almost experience an entire life in those

611
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:28.980
few seconds.

612
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:29.880
It's the inner light.

613
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:31.559
It's, yes, the inner light, exactly.

614
00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:35.519
And like 50, 60 years pass in the blink of an eye.

615
00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:37.799
Or do you think it's just it's just flashes?

616
00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:39.660
I think we see what they see.

617
00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:43.680
Because if they get to experience that life, then having it taken

618
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:45.779
away from them doesn't happen.

619
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:51.960
You know, the thing is heartbreaking because they both know what

620
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.220
they could have and they don't get it, you know, and that's the

621
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:57.000
doctor's fault.

622
00:28:57.059 --> 00:28:59.640
That's entirely the doctor's fault that that doesn't happen.

623
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.940
So I think if they got it in some kind of science fiction sense

624
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:04.799
that would kind of undermine that a bit.

625
00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:06.299
I think it's terribly good.

626
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:12.779
It's well known that John Smith's final words, you know, is

627
00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:13.740
everyone okay?

628
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:18.599
or his sort of near final words, based on something that Paul's

629
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.019
father once said, when he was ill, the 1st thing, you know, that

630
00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:24.059
he says is everyone okay?

631
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:26.460
And so he remembers that.

632
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:31.140
There's some shocking, shockingly insightful things about grief, I

633
00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:32.460
think, in the novel.

634
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:33.299
Yeah.

635
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:35.099
And we'll get back to that later.

636
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:40.980
But I do think that it is the 1st hint of some horrifying

637
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:45.660
developments to come with the ageing makeup.

638
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:46.980
Oh, at the end of the season.

639
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

640
00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:51.240
Oh, that, I think the ageing makeup here is okay.

641
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:55.680
Well, yeah, I watched it on Blu-ray on a 60 inch television last

642
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.039
night.

643
00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:59.099
It didn't really hold up all that well.

644
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.539
But it is there quite briefly, I think, so we'll give it a pass.

645
00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:07.200
But it's going to be kind of the foam machine.

646
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:11.819
The BBC foam machine of series three.

647
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.460
It's going to get one series too.

648
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:15.839
It's gonna get more horrific.

649
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:21.720
So the doctor goes to the spaceship, pretending to be John Smith

650
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.019
and fumbles around and accidentally pushes a lot of different

651
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:25.559
buttons.

652
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:30.539
And then by doing that, the spaceship's going to blow up.

653
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.980
And so the family of mine become utterly useless at that and just

654
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:37.680
have to run outside and let their spaceship blow up.

655
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:41.400
And then the doctor can just then become the most powerful being

656
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:46.740
in the universe and put people in unbreakable chains, put them in

657
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:49.500
the advent horizon of a collapsing galaxy, trapping one of them

658
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.680
inside a mirror and suspending son of mine in time in the fields

659
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:53.160
of England.

660
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:56.640
If he's that powerful, why doesn't he just do this all the time to

661
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.480
every single villain?

662
00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:01.920
I think that that scene is very strange.

663
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.420
I think it's extremely good.

664
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.359
You say the scene where he presses the buttons or the aftermath.

665
00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:07.200
So the aftermath.

666
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:09.119
So the scene where he presses the buttons, I think that that is

667
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:09.720
wonderful.

668
00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:14.940
Yeah, and it gives Tenet the chance to do some, you know, fun

669
00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:16.980
acting and you're relieved, I think.

670
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.400
Whatever you think about David Tennant's normal performance is the

671
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:20.700
doctor.

672
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:25.440
You do feel relieved when the doctor's back and he is sort of

673
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.559
funny and wonderful and that line.

674
00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:31.200
You shouldn't have let me press all those buttons, you know, when

675
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.519
he's fallen on a bunch of buttons.

676
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:34.380
I think that works really well.

677
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:38.339
But then after that, that scene where you get a voiceover from

678
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:44.400
Baines himself from Son of Mine explaining to us what ended up

679
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.660
happening to them.

680
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:51.059
But I don't know exactly why it's there.

681
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:57.839
And I think it exposes a kind of problem with the whole setup.

682
00:31:57.900 --> 00:31:59.339
And we've talked about this before.

683
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:03.000
And we'll talk about it next week because it's an important

684
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.440
feature of next week's episode.

685
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.779
The family of blood.

686
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:12.059
Have the characteristics they have because Paul Cornell wants to

687
00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:12.720
tell this story.

688
00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:17.099
And so the fact that they like Mayflies, that they'll just die in

689
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:19.319
a few months, 3 months.

690
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:19.920
Yeah, yeah.

691
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.880
I've got it written down here is just there to make this plot

692
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:24.299
work.

693
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:28.740
We have the doctor pursued by monsters who haven't seen him for

694
00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:33.900
some reason and who he just needs to prevent them from catching up

695
00:32:33.900 --> 00:32:36.900
with him for sort of 3 months and then...

696
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.579
Did they die after 3 months?

697
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:39.599
How do they build a spaceship?

698
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:41.099
Is it somebody else's spaceship?

699
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:43.319
I assume they've nicked the spaceship or something.

700
00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:44.099
Right.

701
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.440
And then when they inhabit somebody, do they last for 3 months or

702
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:47.519
is it the lifespan of that person?

703
00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:49.259
No, it's the lifespan of that.

704
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:53.460
I think the 3 months is the lifespan of their of their lifecycle

705
00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:56.039
they're gaseous, whatever it is, the green glowiness, whatever it

706
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.859
is, but look, I get what you're saying.

707
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:01.140
And you did sort of say that when we were doing girl in the

708
00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:04.559
fireplace, that the universe or the world is a contrivance, just

709
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.299
so you can tell the story that wants to be told.

710
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:07.079
Correct.

711
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:11.519
I don't think that that's a sort of fair thing because that's

712
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.140
exactly what they're, we're paying them.

713
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.220
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. is to tell us these stories and the whole of

714
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:19.259
Doctor Who is set up so that these stories can be told.

715
00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:21.839
Game of Thrones, anything we watch.

716
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.140
But there's a sort of fridge logic to this, you know, like it's

717
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:28.859
only after the episode's over and then you're at the fridge

718
00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:32.519
getting something and you think, wait, how do these people even

719
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.480
exist properly if they only have a 3 month lifespan or something

720
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:36.839
like that?

721
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:40.019
Like, I'm happy that they get to tell this story.

722
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:41.279
Well, and you have to.

723
00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:42.720
That's the thing.

724
00:33:42.779 --> 00:33:48.779
It's not the premise of human nature, the novel where...

725
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:52.619
No, what they have is they create families that are just 8

726
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:53.099
people.

727
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.640
There's 8 of them instead of 4 in this.

728
00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:00.720
And if they can assimilate a time lord, then each of them can

729
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.359
regenerate and create their own families and stuff and they'll

730
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.359
eventually take over the entire world.

731
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:10.980
And the doctor doesn't, I think, necessarily know that they're

732
00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:12.780
chasing him, although I might be wrong about that.

733
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:18.059
But here, you know, they have to set up a fairly fairly special

734
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:22.800
and complex reason why he chooses to, you know, go through the

735
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.639
transformation arch and I think that's the weakest, the weakest

736
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.639
part of it is why he actually needs to make this extraordinary

737
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:30.659
decision in the 1st place.

738
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:31.739
But I buy that.

739
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.139
That for me is the problem if there is a problem.

740
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:38.940
Yeah, I mean, I'll come, okay, if I can compare this to an offline

741
00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:40.619
discussion we've had about gridlock.

742
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:44.219
Why is this a kind of contrivance so that we can tell the story we

743
00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:44.760
want to tell?

744
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:46.980
But being caught in a traffic jam for 28 years or whatever it is

745
00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:49.139
in gridlock, why is that not a contrived?

746
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:50.219
Oh, no, I think they both are.

747
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.860
And I think that I think that, like, I'm not saying that those

748
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:54.719
contrivances are things that shouldn't happen.

749
00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:55.440
Right.

750
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.960
And I do think that whatever it takes to tell the Doctor Who as

751
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:06.719
Superman 2 story, whatever it takes, I'm happy for us to just go

752
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:07.320
through that.

753
00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:10.800
But it is sort of it's a bit thin, I think.

754
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:15.360
Well, it doesn't look to need to have these people live forever in

755
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:16.440
these situations.

756
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:20.159
Can't they just live out there, put them somewhere.

757
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:22.619
Well, I mean, but he could just, if he took them to the planet

758
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:27.840
Kolka Kron, you know, just to live out their last month, like a

759
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:28.739
tractator or something.

760
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

761
00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:33.659
You know, then, like that's a thing he could have done and it

762
00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:36.119
would have been sort of less interesting and obviously less poetic

763
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:40.920
and less effective, but why does he make them live forever?

764
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:42.659
Okay, that's the thing.

765
00:35:42.659 --> 00:35:45.780
Why can't we just have them live out their lives trapped in those

766
00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:48.179
things for the punishment for what they've done and that's

767
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:48.300
enough.

768
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:51.420
They're large as the humans that they've taken.

769
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.719
Yeah, so the doctor is initially we discover being kind.

770
00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:59.519
That's why he became human because his only way of dealing with

771
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:03.300
them was to make them immortal...

772
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:07.980
No, I think my interpretation, and this is from not me trying to

773
00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:09.659
retcon explain it all away.

774
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:13.320
This is just my impression, is that these are a form of immortal

775
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:18.840
being, but they only have existence in our universe or existence

776
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:24.239
as a sort of a sentient being for very short stretches of time, and

777
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.940
then maybe 1000000s of years might go past, and then they'll kind

778
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:29.579
of coalesce again and be able to have 3 months of life.

779
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.820
Kind of like, you know, those frogs that live at the bottom of dry

780
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:35.159
creek beds in the desert.

781
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.519
And they can hibernate there without water for like 3 or 4 years.

782
00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:41.699
And then there's a shower of rain and the pond fills up.

783
00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:44.519
And then they go through an entire lifecycle where they breed and

784
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:48.480
they have babies and then they all rot and die in the drying creek

785
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.159
bed and then their babies come back to life.

786
00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:52.920
The eggs hatch in 4 or 5 years time when the next rain comes.

787
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:57.119
I see them as that sort of entity where they're not necessarily

788
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.840
having children, but they are only having these moments, these

789
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:03.960
flashes of existence and they are trapped in a sort of

790
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:05.159
immortality.

791
00:37:05.219 --> 00:37:07.500
So I don't think the doctors are making them live forever at the

792
00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:07.679
end.

793
00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:11.880
I think he's dealing with the fact that he doesn't want them to

794
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.400
then come back again in another herald meet 1000s of years time

795
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:15.239
minions of years time.

796
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:16.380
So they already live forever.

797
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:17.340
They already live forever.

798
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:20.400
And this way to stop them from doing bad things, they are then

799
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:20.699
trapped.

800
00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:23.039
Yeah, they already live forever but they can't have more than a

801
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:23.760
few months at a time.

802
00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:26.159
But except that they were going to die.

803
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:28.679
They were going to die in another month and then the doctor could

804
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:30.900
have gone off and just said that the threat was over.

805
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:32.219
I don't think they said die.

806
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:35.099
I think they said that they will cease to be or cease to.

807
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:36.480
Yeah, but the threat goes away at that.

808
00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:38.760
Then the doctor can just go off.

809
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:39.179
Yeah.

810
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:40.739
But that still works with my theory.

811
00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:48.599
Yeah, I guess the fact that the episode itself just says that

812
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:52.079
they're going to stop and the doctor just has to wait out the end

813
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:53.460
of their lives.

814
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:55.619
And that's the solution.

815
00:37:56.039 --> 00:38:00.840
Like, I don't know why that still doesn't work once the doctor's

816
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:01.500
the doctor again.

817
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:03.599
Like if he he's blown up their spaceship.

818
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:04.500
They can't go anywhere.

819
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:06.539
They're on the planet Golcocron with the gravis.

820
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:08.820
You think they should just keel over?

821
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:10.800
They die in a few months time.

822
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:16.079
And so he seems to be imposing immortality on them.

823
00:38:16.139 --> 00:38:20.400
And it seems to be a disproportionate reaction. like a

824
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:21.539
disproportionate response.

825
00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:29.400
And I don't know why exactly Paul wants to make the doctor so

826
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:32.460
vengeful and so godlike.

827
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:36.480
And I do think that Russell kind of wants to do this as well.

828
00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:39.900
Like that the new series seeks to problematize the doctor in

829
00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:43.079
various ways and different showrunners have different ways of

830
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:43.559
doing it.

831
00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:47.099
But this thing where he's a kind of vengeful monster.

832
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.340
A little bit like the way that Matt Smith's doctors described in

833
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:51.840
the Pandorica opens as well.

834
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:54.840
He'll drop out of the sky and tear down your world.

835
00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:59.519
See, does this tie in with like what Donner experienced in the

836
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.860
Christmas episode where he gets rid of all of the...

837
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:02.280
Yeah, yeah.

838
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:06.300
Brachnos's children, where he goes too far.

839
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.559
Like, he's got all, he actually has all this power and there are

840
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:13.980
moments where he makes the wrong decision.

841
00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:16.320
Which the companion holds him back.

842
00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

843
00:39:16.980 --> 00:39:22.079
Is this trying to demonstrate this to us when having a discussion

844
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:22.320
about it?

845
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:23.699
Yeah, I guess that's it.

846
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:26.219
I guess I guess that is the same thing, isn't it?

847
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:30.420
But it does seem, it does seem really extraordinary, like really

848
00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:31.440
really quite strange.

849
00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:35.760
And I certainly love the scenes and I love how that voiceover is

850
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.039
delivered and I love how it's written.

851
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:40.860
And, you know, like he is talking to the audience.

852
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:42.420
There's no other way of interpreting it.

853
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:46.800
You know, he tells you what happens when you look in a mirror and

854
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.239
you see a movement behind you that's his sister.

855
00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:52.920
And I think all of that's great.

856
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.559
And there's obviously a reference to Warriors Gate in there with a

857
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:58.679
dwarf star alloy and all of that sort of stuff.

858
00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:04.260
Like it's um, it's epic and it does make the doctor into a sort of

859
00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:08.400
scary godlike figure, but it just, which is very new adventures.

860
00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:10.199
It is very new adventures as well.

861
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:13.619
It is very new adventures, but it does seem like a fairly

862
00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:17.460
disproportionate response to just 4 people with lobster guns.

863
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.119
Yes.

864
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:21.719
No, I'm prepared to acknowledge that because that is the sort of

865
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.820
thing that I didn't like about the new adventures.

866
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.639
It's the sort of thing I don't like about the new series when they

867
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:30.119
do stray, they're, like you said, with the Pandora Opens. and the

868
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:33.300
doctor is golden, the doctor is this super powerful being, and

869
00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:35.820
also playing up the fact that, oh, the doctor's an alien, therefore

870
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:38.760
he has different morals to us, and therefore, blah, blah, blah.

871
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:41.579
But for some reason, I can just go with the flow.

872
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:44.579
In fact, if I'm going to be uncomfortable with one element of it

873
00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:47.219
it is the girl being trapped in the mirror because it's a bit like

874
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:50.219
I mean, I know that's probably just a poetic way of saying that

875
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:53.460
she's trapped between the dimensions or something like, you know.

876
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:54.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

877
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:55.019
It's magic.

878
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:56.099
Doctor Who's full of magic.

879
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.139
Well, that's another reference to Warriors game. one could I?

880
00:40:58.199 --> 00:40:58.920
Yeah, yeah.

881
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:01.679
I don't like it with a Doctor Who strays too much into magic

882
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:01.860
though.

883
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.820
I'd rather have a, you know, stupid explanation for why it

884
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:06.179
happens.

885
00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:07.260
Yeah, yeah.

886
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.320
Or I'd rather just have them all killed off in the spaceship.

887
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.619
Didn't you, did you see tear of the zygons in that?

888
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:18.300
I saw, I know it's completely different in so many ways, but maybe

889
00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:20.219
it's just the sort of the dull lighting of the spaceship and

890
00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:21.840
everything, the bleeps and the bloops and all the kind of the

891
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:24.420
knobbly bits that he presses, but it's when they're all running

892
00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:26.880
out and they're running from the spaceship and it blows up behind

893
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:27.119
them.

894
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:28.739
I just saw tear of the Zygons.

895
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:29.760
That's a great observation.

896
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:32.699
No, actually, I didn't see that, but now that you say it, I can

897
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:33.599
clearly see it.

898
00:41:33.659 --> 00:41:36.719
I think that the design of the spaceship owes something to it

899
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:37.139
don't you?

900
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.380
Yeah, it's a little bit less rude, but yeah, yes.

901
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:41.519
Especially the outside.

902
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:42.840
Yeah.

903
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:47.880
I had heard that that was a budget saving measure that ended up

904
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:48.960
being more expensive.

905
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:51.659
It would have been if it was visible.

906
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:57.300
But there is an invisible dome that the villains hang out in the

907
00:41:57.300 --> 00:41:58.079
novel as well.

908
00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:00.119
Oh, he's there, yeah.

909
00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.760
The endings?

910
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.739
Like after all of this.

911
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.300
Many endings.

912
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.079
Many engines.

913
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:13.679
No, all the endings rescue this episode for me.

914
00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:14.940
It's all the endings.

915
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.739
The fact that Joan keeps, you can see that she's going to keep the

916
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:20.340
diary.

917
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:23.940
Yeah, it's a subtle, lovely moment.

918
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:28.980
I love the doctor and Martha's awkward conversation, but the thank

919
00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:32.219
you is so, she's earned that, thank you.

920
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:33.239
Yeah, 0 yeah.

921
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:34.619
Above and beyond.

922
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:41.579
Um, and then when they look to, you'll love this bit to, to Tim, um

923
00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:44.820
so he gets to see the dematerialisation and then we, then, of

924
00:42:44.820 --> 00:42:47.760
course, we get the whole war sequence, which has been peppered

925
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:48.239
throughout.

926
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:54.239
And then the doctor and Martha turning up to what may not be

927
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:56.579
present day, but it might be, you know, 10 years ago or whatever

928
00:42:56.579 --> 00:43:00.599
always brings a tear to my eye with him in the wheelchair there.

929
00:43:00.659 --> 00:43:04.500
Well, that's actually the scene that I was, one of the scenes that

930
00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:09.119
I was referring to, which wasn't in Paul's original script, but

931
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:12.780
Russell remembered it from the novel.

932
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:14.579
And so it's back.

933
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.619
That's exactly how the novel ends.

934
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:21.719
And, you know, it's absolutely perfect in that you've got age

935
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:23.639
shall not weary them all of that kind of thing.

936
00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:26.219
You got this very old man who's got to be in his 90s.

937
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.800
It can't possibly be 2007.

938
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:30.059
It could be 105.

939
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:30.840
Yeah, I guess.

940
00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:32.820
I reckon it's 1990 something.

941
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:36.119
I don't think it really matters It doesn't matter.

942
00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:39.000
It's the end of the 20th century.

943
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:43.500
And we've been through in the last few years, the sort of

944
00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:50.280
centenary of World War one and a kind of renewed appreciation.

945
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.300
I think of what people went through.

946
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.760
And I think, you know, there's that British thing where people

947
00:43:56.760 --> 00:44:01.139
wear the poppy, you know, more than we do here and certainly sort

948
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:02.639
of... presenters.

949
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:03.539
Yeah, yeah.

950
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.480
But news presenters and stuff where the poppy politicians and

951
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:07.019
stuff like that.

952
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:15.599
And I think that that's a pretty good thing to do, but it is, it's

953
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:16.139
odd.

954
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:20.940
I do think it is slightly odd at the end of a story which has been

955
00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:26.099
mostly about gunning down scarecrows and, you know, David Tennant

956
00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:26.639
blubbing.

957
00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:31.800
But I guess it adds a sort of proper gravitas to the, to the

958
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:32.099
story.

959
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:35.219
I think it's a nice little coder.

960
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:40.559
It doesn't need to be there, but given so much of the, there are

961
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:42.840
so many references to the fact that, you know, what World War one

962
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:46.619
stars next year and all these young boys are going to be, you know

963
00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:50.639
horrifically gunned down and so that's not just a glancing theme.

964
00:44:50.820 --> 00:44:53.699
They keep coming back to it, particularly with Tim.

965
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.780
And I think it's nice to see that Tim's had a rich and full and

966
00:44:57.780 --> 00:44:58.199
long live.

967
00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:01.619
I mean, for me, the more annoying bit is the bit in the battle

968
00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:05.159
scene when the shell comes down and he dodges it, you know, that

969
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.500
for me is the most tedious bit. actually.

970
00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:11.579
Well, because it's just like, oh, do we actually need to do that?

971
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:15.360
I think we've seen it already in his little flashboard things

972
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.739
these little premonitions.

973
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:17.699
Doing it again.

974
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.739
It's just like everything has to be tied up with a little boat.

975
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.860
As I said in the last episode, I started rereading the new

976
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:23.340
adventures.

977
00:45:23.340 --> 00:45:26.639
And at the end of time, when Revelation by Paul Cornell, which

978
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:30.480
seemed very cool at the time, that he spends this last section of

979
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.880
the book where he goes back and puts in place all the little

980
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:35.219
newspaper ads and all these little things to make all of these

981
00:45:35.219 --> 00:45:38.340
little magical moments work in the early part of the book.

982
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.800
And in some respects, it's just an unnecessary.

983
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:43.380
Let's tie it all up in a little bow and make it all neat.

984
00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:44.820
And I don't think it's really necessary.

985
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.539
It's funny, I've just been watching on Friday night with Peter

986
00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:50.039
we've watched Death to the Daleks.

987
00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:53.340
And at the end of that, the doctor's just standing there with

988
00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:56.219
everybody else and it's a close-up on him and they haven't left.

989
00:45:56.280 --> 00:46:00.239
They haven't, you know, the Dalek, you know, it just ends, and you

990
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.880
know, okay, yes, well, they'll say their goodbyes and they'll go

991
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.880
we don't get all that neatly tying up, we don't get to see like, oh

992
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.699
Bel Al come with us, but, you know, he doesn't get that

993
00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:09.780
opportunity to...

994
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:11.039
Yeah, exactly.

995
00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:13.559
But what I'm saying is I'd rather have the scene at the memorial

996
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:18.360
in whatever year it is rather than the scene in the bunker or

997
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:19.380
whatever it is in the trench.

998
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:21.300
Look, I don't know.

999
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.420
Although it does show, sorry, it does show that Tim is more of a

1000
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:28.860
man than the other bloke is Hutchinson is just an idiot.

1001
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.159
But no, I like all those endings.

1002
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:35.940
For me, it rescues this episode and brings it back up to at least

1003
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:36.420
an eight.

1004
00:46:36.539 --> 00:46:38.880
Yeah, I don't know.

1005
00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:40.920
I mean, is this a weaker episode for you guys?

1006
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:44.340
Is it, is it, do you think you just see it as the one big thing?

1007
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.219
Like, you know, every week I kind of think the 1st part was

1008
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:50.039
stronger than the 2nd part, although the back end of it was quite

1009
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:50.639
glorious.

1010
00:46:50.699 --> 00:46:55.500
I think that generally speaking, unless the 2nd part decides to go

1011
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.679
in a completely different direction, which does happen, and it's

1012
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:03.420
something that Moffat in particular is very keen on Dewey, I think

1013
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:09.480
that just of necessity, the 2nd episode tends to be weakest in a

1014
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:10.500
two-part story.

1015
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:14.340
And I mean, even in four-part classic Doctor Who stories, episode

1016
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:16.679
one always tends to be a little bit more fun.

1017
00:47:16.739 --> 00:47:21.059
Here, I think the problem is that the plot runs out a little bit

1018
00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:27.000
too early and there is a little bit too much talking, but I think

1019
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:28.139
I agree with you, Todd.

1020
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.320
I think that those scenes at the end, my favourite of the of the

1021
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:35.099
final scenes is the one with the doctor and Joan.

1022
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:36.960
I think that's extremely good.

1023
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.400
But all of them are great.

1024
00:47:38.460 --> 00:47:42.420
And I do think, I mean, we've spent 90 minutes with these

1025
00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:42.960
characters.

1026
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:44.159
Let's say goodbye to them.

1027
00:47:44.219 --> 00:47:45.300
Exactly.

1028
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.119
The scene that you're talking about with Joan is definitely the

1029
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:48.840
best of them.

1030
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:52.260
And that is, I think, I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of those

1031
00:47:52.260 --> 00:47:55.860
ones that Russell told Paul to put back in the story because

1032
00:47:55.860 --> 00:47:58.500
whilst I don't remember much of the detail of the book.

1033
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:03.059
The one thing I that really stayed with me at the time, and upset

1034
00:48:03.059 --> 00:48:08.159
me a little, at the time, was when Joan says goodbye to the doctor

1035
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:09.119
not to John Smith.

1036
00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:11.760
And it's sort of more set at the door.

1037
00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:14.519
I think the impression is that he never actually gets over the

1038
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:16.860
threshold of the house because I think she's living in a cottage.

1039
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:20.940
And basically, she closes the door behind him.

1040
00:48:21.059 --> 00:48:23.880
And I should have looked this up before the podcast, but I think

1041
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:26.760
the line is something like it's a paragraph all by itself and it

1042
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:28.860
just says, and she stood there for a very long time.

1043
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.820
And that really affected me at the time.

1044
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.139
There is some of that in that in that final farewell sequence with

1045
00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:37.440
Joan.

1046
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:42.659
There is a change, which Paul remarks on in the forward to the

1047
00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:44.880
edition that I referred to last week.

1048
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:50.699
And in the original novel, she asks him if he can change back and

1049
00:48:50.699 --> 00:48:51.539
he says no.

1050
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:57.119
But here she asks if he can change back and he says, yes.

1051
00:48:57.179 --> 00:48:58.559
And then she says, will you?

1052
00:48:58.619 --> 00:48:59.340
And he says, no.

1053
00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:00.599
Without a moment.

1054
00:49:00.659 --> 00:49:03.420
I think that's so incredibly good.

1055
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:05.760
That's so amazingly good.

1056
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:06.840
I think.

1057
00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:10.920
And I like, I'm not even sure what it's saying about the doctor.

1058
00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:16.260
I guess it bespeaks a bit of callousness or something like that.

1059
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:19.860
Well, I don't know, because it's his, you know, he's being asked

1060
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:23.579
to give up his identity and his his cape and his underpants on the

1061
00:49:23.579 --> 00:49:25.500
outside. and all of that sort of thing, yeah.

1062
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:27.179
Who's going to do that?

1063
00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:28.380
It's so blunt.

1064
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:29.400
It's so blunt.

1065
00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:30.840
It's really blunt.

1066
00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:34.440
It's much better. than saying, no, you know, the technology only

1067
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:35.699
works once or some not.

1068
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:36.360
Exactly.

1069
00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.400
It's much better to say no.

1070
00:49:38.460 --> 00:49:39.059
No, I will not.

1071
00:49:39.059 --> 00:49:40.199
I choose not to do that.

1072
00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:42.000
Despite what we had, I choose not to.

1073
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:45.840
Picking up on your point, Todd, and well, both of your points

1074
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.159
about the strength of the episode.

1075
00:49:47.219 --> 00:49:49.440
It's almost like there's enough content there for an old style 3

1076
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:51.059
parts, like a McCoy 3 parter.

1077
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:54.599
I agree that maybe the 2nd episode is a little bit stretched.

1078
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:58.139
I agree, Nathan, with your point that the 2nd episodes generally

1079
00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:00.900
are going to be weaker because the 1st episodes, there's all that

1080
00:50:00.900 --> 00:50:01.320
promise.

1081
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:04.800
And, you know, the promise is never going to be lived up to.

1082
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:08.280
With the possible exception of case Avengersani, the promise is

1083
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:12.480
never really lived up to. you know, classic series stories, you

1084
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.760
know, the 2nd half is always a bit, oh, well, okay. then this

1085
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:17.460
happens and then now and then it's all over and bang explosion, the

1086
00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:17.639
end.

1087
00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:21.179
Um, I look at it as a whole.

1088
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.880
I like to see the whole both episodes as one story.

1089
00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:26.219
I know that's not the fashionable thing to do with the new

1090
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:26.579
series.

1091
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:28.860
You want to sort of treat them all episodes and yes, this just

1092
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:30.000
happens to be sort of a two-partter.

1093
00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:35.159
But I think the whole thing works as a 90 minute story, whether

1094
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:37.920
you break it down into 2 or whether you just watch it all in one

1095
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:38.219
hit.

1096
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.500
I think it works really nicely.

1097
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:46.619
Um, I think that, um, I don't know how Russell, how, why this kind

1098
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:49.559
of, it happened in the Russells, did Abe's era, but that thing

1099
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:53.400
where the 1st 2 part of the season is disposable and a bit stupid

1100
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:56.760
and, you know, is a runaround and lots of explosions and things

1101
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:59.280
like that. the word enjoyable is the word you're looking for.

1102
00:50:59.340 --> 00:51:04.559
And then the 2nd two-parter is, and then the silly is the word.

1103
00:51:04.619 --> 00:51:10.139
And then the 2nd two-parter is got a lot more emotional depth in

1104
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:10.380
it.

1105
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:13.739
There's a bit more adultness in it.

1106
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.780
And then when I say adult, I don't mean sex and stuff.

1107
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:17.579
I just mean, it's just more mature.

1108
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:20.280
The story, not only is the story more mature, but I think the

1109
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.980
emotional responses from the characters is more mature.

1110
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:25.980
There is nothing mature about aliens of London.

1111
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:30.000
No, I think it's got a serious political point to make, but it's a

1112
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:30.360
cartoon.

1113
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:34.199
And, you know, those ones are sort of Sarah Jane Adventure style

1114
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:34.800
runarounds.

1115
00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:35.820
Yes, exactly.

1116
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.059
And so I, and so it was like, this was sort of when human nature

1117
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:43.019
came on, it was like, yes, this is, now it's completely clear, set

1118
00:51:43.019 --> 00:51:45.539
in stone that this is the way and your modern Doctor Who series

1119
00:51:45.539 --> 00:51:46.019
works.

1120
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:50.159
And the more interesting episodes tend to be backloaded in the

1121
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.320
season, apart from when you get to the very end, which is again

1122
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:53.460
another sort of stupid runaround.

1123
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.800
But it's like the way he puts together a season.

1124
00:51:55.860 --> 00:52:00.059
And because, and I get that a story like this and a story maybe

1125
00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:03.780
like blink or something is going to maybe lose some elements of

1126
00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:06.539
the audience that are just wanting the silly runaround that you're

1127
00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:07.260
so fond of.

1128
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.500
But it's just that thing that this is what makes, you know, we

1129
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:12.179
needed more Doctor Who like this, not less.

1130
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:15.239
Even if they're a little bits that you, I'd say that, oh, this

1131
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.920
could have been better, if any, that have done this, and this is a

1132
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:18.239
bit dragged out, et cetera, et cetera.

1133
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:21.840
But overall, this is exactly what Doctor Who should have been

1134
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:23.340
doing and should continue to do.

1135
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:36.599
All right, so it's part two, and so that means it's time for picks

1136
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:36.960
of the week.

1137
00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:38.699
Do you want to start Todd?

1138
00:52:38.820 --> 00:52:43.500
Well, I decided, surprise, surprise, to choose a classic Doctor

1139
00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:46.860
Who story is my pick of the week, and I thought about this, and I

1140
00:52:46.860 --> 00:52:49.619
thought, I need something that's got a green glowing alien

1141
00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:54.000
spaceship that sort of crashes, and it's sort of a period piece

1142
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.159
and somebody slaps somebody else, and the women upcharacterized in

1143
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:03.539
a certain way, and there's former public schoolboys, obviously, you

1144
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:07.320
know, so I've decided to go with the horror of Fang Rock. from the

1145
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:08.340
Tom Bake era.

1146
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:09.840
Go and enjoy.

1147
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:12.179
I think that's very good advice.

1148
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:13.139
Simon.

1149
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:18.059
Well, if I was to choose a classic Doctor Who story is, pick of

1150
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:21.239
the week because it's got a link to this one, it has to be enemy

1151
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:25.199
of the world because of, you know, the main actor playing a

1152
00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:25.619
different role.

1153
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:26.519
But I'm not choosing that.

1154
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:31.679
I'm instead choosing W1A. Which features Joan, our very own Joan.

1155
00:53:31.739 --> 00:53:35.039
Jessica Hines is in it as sort of a marketing guru.

1156
00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:38.159
It didn't really get much of a run here in Australia.

1157
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:40.920
It's the kind of thing you really have to track down if there are

1158
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:43.619
any British listeners here, they'll be more familiar with it.

1159
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.099
But basically, Ian Fletcher, a chap called Ian Fletcher, who

1160
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:50.940
you'll recognise from Downton Abbey, who is formerly head of the

1161
00:53:50.940 --> 00:53:53.519
Olympic Deliverance Commission, has taken up a position of head of

1162
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:56.880
values at the BBC, and it's got a wonderful, yes, minister flavour

1163
00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:00.300
of the perils of bureaucracy and how everyone could walk around

1164
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:01.619
and nothing actually gets done.

1165
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:02.579
But she plays.

1166
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:06.420
It just shows how good an actress she is because she plays a

1167
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:09.000
totally different role to what she plays here.

1168
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.699
And is it like just a one series or?

1169
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:12.719
I think there are 3 series.

1170
00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:13.860
There are only a few episodes in each.

1171
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:14.219
Okay.

1172
00:54:14.219 --> 00:54:15.179
Yeah.

1173
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:16.079
Good.

1174
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:17.460
Look forward to watching it.

1175
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:18.780
Nathan.

1176
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:21.300
I'm going to choose the original novel.

1177
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:23.579
By Paul Cornell.

1178
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:26.039
We talked quite a lot about it last week.

1179
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:32.820
I, at the time, often found new adventures a bit tedious.

1180
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:36.119
One thing that they had a habit of doing was introducing a whole

1181
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.119
heap of characters and settings that wouldn't pay off until the

1182
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:39.780
very end.

1183
00:54:39.780 --> 00:54:46.559
And they didn't generally feel like works of fiction that merited

1184
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:48.900
quite so much effort on my part.

1185
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.639
And so, you know, occasionally they were tedious and eventually I

1186
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:54.780
did stop reading them.

1187
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:59.760
But they were what we had in 1995, and in fact, they were what we

1188
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:03.059
had from sort of 1990 to, you know, goodness knows when.

1189
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:08.760
And there was some extraordinary Doctor Who in that series.

1190
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:11.340
There was some bad Doctor Who as well.

1191
00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:15.420
But human nature, I think, as you said last week, Simon, was

1192
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:19.139
really kind of one of the pinnacles of the series.

1193
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:23.940
And I think it's well worth experiencing in that medium, if you've

1194
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:26.280
enjoyed this episode as much as we have, I think.

1195
00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:28.920
I look forward to reading it for the 1st time.

1196
00:55:28.980 --> 00:55:31.739
I'm sure it's in my box in the attic, but I bought it, but I don't

1197
00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:32.400
think I read it.

1198
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:33.179
No, definitely read it.

1199
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:33.960
It's really good for me.

1200
00:55:34.019 --> 00:55:34.380
It is great.

1201
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:36.780
I'm looking forward to getting up to it if I ever get that.

1202
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:04.980
Well, there is, now, that's all we have time for this week.

1203
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:08.159
We'll be back next week to find out what the school births of Mr

1204
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.980
Moffat has been up to during those illicit trips to the pub.

1205
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.820
So please join us as we discuss a Doctor Who's most savagely

1206
00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:17.400
underrated episode blink.

1207
00:56:17.460 --> 00:56:21.000
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1208
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:23.880
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety.com, flight

1209
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.239
through entirety on Facebook and at FDE podcast on Twitter.

1210
00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:31.739
You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody and Terra at Jody

1211
00:56:31.739 --> 00:56:35.400
Interterterra.com, and at Jody Interterra on Twitter, and our

1212
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:39.420
James Bond commentary podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com, at

1213
00:56:39.420 --> 00:56:42.659
bondfinger on Facebook, and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

1214
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.800
Until next time, may you fall in love with a charming

1215
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:50.519
schoolteacher who isn't secretly an alien from the constellation

1216
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:51.719
of Kosterberus.

1217
00:56:51.780 --> 00:56:53.039
There's a lot of us about.

1218
00:56:53.099 --> 00:56:55.679
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1219
00:56:55.739 --> 00:56:56.820
There is.

1220
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:57.659
See you soon.

1221
00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:58.440
Bye for now.

1222
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:06.059
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Beele, be Nathan

1223
00:57:06.059 --> 00:57:07.260
Bottomley, and Simon Moore.

1224
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:10.139
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1225
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:10.920
Orberg.

1226
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:15.000
This episode, 6 Bullets, was recorded on the 18th of August 2019

1227
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:16.980
and released on the 10th of November.

1228
00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:24.539
Fans of human nature will enjoy series 12's upcoming TV adaptation

1229
00:57:24.539 --> 00:57:27.840
of John Peel's War of the Daleks, which will remove every other

1230
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:31.440
Dalek story from Canon, except for the wheel in space, which

1231
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:33.239
doesn't even have any Daleks in it.

1232
00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:38.820
Nathan, I know that you really enjoyed the musical score for this

1233
00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:39.239
episode.

1234
00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:42.780
Did you want to, well, talk about what I expects that you...

1235
00:57:42.780 --> 00:57:48.420
Look, I think that this is where the all the strange, strange

1236
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:57.599
creatures track, really, sort of comes into its own, and there's

1237
00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:59.639
not really all that much more to say than that.

1238
00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:02.400
All right, well, do you have something to say about the music?

1239
00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:03.300
Absolutely not.

1240
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:04.980
Because, I mean, it's...

1241
00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:06.000
You're a musician, you might.

1242
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:07.019
I'm not a musician.

1243
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:09.960
But I will say that...

1244
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:11.219
You've got an ear for music, Simon.

1245
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:15.420
I will say that it's typical Murray Gold, in that there are

1246
00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:20.400
moments which are perfectly good, but then it, it, it, um, it gets

1247
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:25.980
too big into, um, showy, uh, in too many places.

1248
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:28.079
But that's just a general complaint, but and that's not

1249
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:29.820
necessarily my goals falls.

1250
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:32.039
It's the fault of the style that they're going for I think.

1251
00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:33.960
Have you seen years and years yet?

1252
00:58:34.019 --> 00:58:35.460
No, no.

1253
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:37.079
Murray does the score to it?

1254
00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:38.579
I think it's just tremendous.

1255
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:41.219
Well, I'll be looking forward.

1256
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:42.659
It's definitely on our list.

1257
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:44.699
Is it actually, it's not available here, though, isn't it?

1258
00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:46.260
Well, he did.

1259
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:48.539
I mean, he, you know, Russell brought him for queerest folk and

1260
00:58:48.539 --> 00:58:49.079
stuff as well.

1261
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:51.599
Well, the queer folk music is very good.

1262
00:58:51.659 --> 00:58:53.820
Yeah, I think that that seems like that.

1263
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:57.059
I think the Marigold music, you talk to, owes too much to Dudley

1264
00:58:57.059 --> 00:59:00.420
Simpson, and that's who I'm not a huge fan of either.

1265
00:59:01.139 --> 00:59:05.280
I guess I like that sort of sort of more operatic.

1266
00:59:05.340 --> 00:59:08.579
I mean, I think, well, that's what music's for, you know, tell me

1267
00:59:08.579 --> 00:59:09.420
how to feel, Murray.

1268
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:10.920
I'll cry, I promise.

1269
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:13.320
I think that's probably a tag actually.

1270
00:59:14.699 --> 00:59:18.480
The endings, like after all of this.