WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:59:59

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Hello, Delissa and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast that provides insightful analysis of every

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single Doctor Who story in order.

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It's nonsense for deep people.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Liz.

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Well, the doctor and Martha have the week off, and so we have the

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chance for some quality time with Carrie Mulligan in an episode

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partly about the terrifying brevity of human life, but mostly

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about how clever Stephen Moffatt is, exhibit A, blink.

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So, Liz, this or the Time Monster?

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Oh, my goodness.

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Oh, you said it would be easy.

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That's a bit.

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You're a cruel man.

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That's been harsh.

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In terms of love?

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The Time Monster, obviously.

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You can't just chuck out childhood's beloved favourites for this

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newfangled nonsense of the 21st century.

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But I suppose technically, in a purely objectivish or subjectivish

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you can get sense, oh, which one is actually better written, I

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must reluctantly admit, it's probably blank, a little bit.

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Maybe.

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What might argue the show's a greater command of scriptwriting

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craft?

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Yeah.

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Little bit.

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It's still, the Time Monster is really fun and we really enjoyed

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it when we covered it, didn't we?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, it'd be like asking me, you know, bandrils or adipos, and

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it's like, you can, no, you can't get rid of the bandrils.

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I'm not saying we have to get rid of one.

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Oh, okay.

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This isn't Sophie's choice.

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It's not, you know, like it's, I'm not being sort of terribly

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cruel.

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I would the world would be a much worse place without the time

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monster to kind of relax in front of.

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It's wonderful.

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Yes, but it is a different pleasure from work.

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Yes, that makes sense.

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Though I would love to have someone new to Doctor Who be like, okay

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we're going to show you an example of the new series. sit down and

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watch blink.

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And now here's the best of the old series, such down, I watched

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The Time Monster.

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I just watched the expression on their face.

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Oh, dear.

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I have never shown the time monster at the Doctor Who Club at

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school and I really should.

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I need to find someone to do that too, Liz.

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That's genius.

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Very helpful. like that.

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I suggest some small people that you insulate from the world at

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large until they are ready to be exposed to Doctor Who and

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continue on in ordinary lives.

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That might be immoral.

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There might be some ethical considerations there, which is why I

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obviously don't do any sort of experiments like that.

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That'd be...

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I don't like talking.

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Shut up.

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No, no.

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It's like that friggin king who had those 2 children that no one

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was allowed to speak to or something.

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I can't even remember.

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Cut all that out.

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That nonsense.

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This is a bit of an uncontroversial one, isn't it?

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I mean, we're not going to be wrangling over the, you know, our

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opinions here.

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Does anyone not like this?

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I think it's great.

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I really enjoy it.

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I remember really enjoying it at the time and kind of being blown

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away at the time and going, wow, this is something new and

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different and exciting.

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How about you, Liz?

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But the time I was at university and I was watching this at my

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flat with a friend and we were steadily getting more and more

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scared as it went on to the point where the bit where the TARDIS

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is surrounded.

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I believe we may have been screaming in terror.

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Genuinely freaked out to that extent because it was, it was just

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so cool and new and it felt fresh and and and very, you know, it

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feels like a very classicy twilighty zone slash outer limits um

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style for yielding modern, yielding modern error, the modern error

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but it's none of the cheese of the the remakes in the the 90s of

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it's, it's like modern and cool science fiction.

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That's really, really scary.

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I forgot when I was watching Stems, just how good some of the

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direction is, like there's this gorgeous one where Sally, um, she's

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crouched over something.

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The angels there looking at her.

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She stands back up, and as her body moves across the face of angel

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it switches back, um, in the same shot, and it's just, I'd

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forgotten stuff like that.

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I'd forgotten just how creepy a lot of it is before you get to the

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actual bit where they're like screaming at you silently.

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Um, what watching it again.

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It's one of the ones that I try to watch very seldomly because uh

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like uh, the girl in the fireplace.

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I'm terrified that it will just become too well known.

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So I, it's, it's, yeah, and I love that feeling of, um, Not, like

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yes, I know what's going to happen, but I've forgotten enough of

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the details that it's interesting again.

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And this has definitely been, yes, I know it's really good.

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But watching it this morning, it was like, wow, this is really

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amazing.

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I'd forgotten all this stuff, which was very cool.

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Yeah, yeah, I just watched it today as well.

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You're so right about those, those moments where the transition

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over the angels is a person moving across them and all of a sudden

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they've moved or that bit where Sally's looking out the window at

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the police station and sees the angels across the way and then

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gets distracted and looks back and the angels are gone and they're

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right next to the window, she's staring out of.

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That's wonderful, isn't it?

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In fact, that's not an obvious decision.

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Like it didn't have to be like that, did it?

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The idea that we as the audience count as someone looking at the

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angels.

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And so that's why we never see the move.

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And they will move the next time that they appear.

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But that choice to just have them as completely motionless figures

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isn't something that had to happen.

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Was it Stephen Moffat's idea?

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Yes, yes, it was.

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He was recalling a, I believe, a trip he had as a child and he saw

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an old busted down church from far away behind a fence and he

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could just make out the statues in there and it really unnerved

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him.

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And he was trying to write this script in a hurry, basically

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because 1st of all, he says, well, you know, I still want to write

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for the 3rd season, but can I have something towards the back of

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the season and maybe just one episode and he sort of, he says he

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put Russell off so much that eventually he volunteered for the Dr

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Light episode because he thought no one wants to do that.

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Everyone wants to write the doctor.

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And that's also why the sort of plot of the episode is borrowed

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from the 2006 Doctor Who annual.

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Yeah, which has a story about it's like what I did on my holidays

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by Sally Sparrow.

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Yeah, but there's no weeping angels or anything in that.

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The doctor's just stuck in the past and is sending Sally messages

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from there and Sally's, I think, around a 12 year old character in

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that.

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But the decision was made to make her an adult for dramatic

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reasons because Stephen kind of quoted Sidney Newman to say that

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he felt that children were more interested in watching characters

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older than them rather than characters of their own age.

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Yes, I do recall that as a child.

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Doctor Who was more interesting than any children's tell, any just

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children's television that was available to me.

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Stephen Moffatt will put more children in Doctor Who when he takes

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over.

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But at this point, there aren't that many.

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And I still think that, you know, the way this works, because the

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other thing that it leans into, apart from Stephen Moffatt's

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really kind of careful plotting is how good he is at romantic

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comedy.

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And so, you know, having Sally's emotional arc, sort of.

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I mean, it is sort of fairly thinly sketched, but we get a meat

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cute with Larry, you know, leading up to her taking Larry's hand

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and just sort of very quietly kind of agreeing that they're kind

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of together now at the very end once everything's been resolved.

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I mean, Moffatt writes funny sitcom dialogue in a way that seems

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so incredibly effortless and I think that he always does really

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well when he's got that structure to work with.

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Yeah, I think the dialogue throughout.

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It was one of the things that I'd partly forgotten.

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And so, um, all the lines that are like, oh, yeah, that was like

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um, that was just really cool to see again.

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And it's, yeah, it's so annoying how good the dialogue is every

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single time and the way it works, the way it's like, yes, it's

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character stuff and it's funny and you enjoy it, but it's also

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pushing the plot forward.

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It has a point.

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It's just, it's desperately irritating how good.

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Almost all of it.

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Ive got one. there's one scene that I'm with a couple of dialogue

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that I'm like, eh, I don't like this, but that might be probably

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down to personal taste more than anything else.

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But so much of it, all of Sally's conversations are just an

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absolute delight.

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I take such joy in the way that they are so efficient and witty.

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I mean, the stuff with Detective Shipton and how just quick it was

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and yet how much it got to you was, 0 my god, I was like tears in

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my eyes with the, he's dying now and her, I'll stay with you.

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And it was like, did I cry this before?

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What?

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This is terrible.

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I think I cry every time I see it and I was definitely in tears

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and I think it is the Billy Shipton thing that gets to me.

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And it isn't just, like, he's so tremendously, fabulously sexually

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confident.

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And Stephen Moffatt writes women like River Song. who are also

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sort of just supremely confident.

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Like she, um, Sally definitely wins in sort of every interaction

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with, with Larry, um, but she's put on the back foot by Billy.

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But it's not just that, which I think is beautiful, that scene of

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two, you know, just attractive young people flirting wittily.

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But the payoff to it.

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And I guess what people maybe don't talk about quite so much is

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just the idea that it's about how quick life is, how quickly it

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goes.

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So Billy Shipton lives a long life.

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And Kathy Nightingale lives a long and full life.

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But to Sally, they're over like that.

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You blink and you miss it.

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And it's that line that Billy says about looking at his hands and

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seeing that they're old man's hands and asking when did that

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happen?

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You know, and it happened just instantly it happened on this day

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as well as happening, you know, sometime between 1969 and now.

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Just how quickly life is over.

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And so obviously weeping angels, which appear on tombstones.

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They're obviously the correct monster for that, for that theme.

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Something I really like about the Billy stuff is you've got

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Michael Obiora playing young Billy.

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You've got Lewis Mahoney previously of Planet of Evil and Frontier

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in Space as Old Billy.

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I imagine they would never have met the way that modern television

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has made the 2 actors.

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And yet they managed to capture the same mannerism.

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So I can only put that down to Hetty McDonald, the director.

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And this was her 1st Doctor Who.

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She's making the Dr. Light episode, which is double banked with

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other things.

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She will come back to the series in Peter Capaldi's time.

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But this is just so well directed.

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And then after Sally has sat with, with Billy, I don't think we

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even get a crossfade, which would be the usual thing to show that

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time has passed, we cut to the floor of the hospital and tilt up

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to find Sally staring out the window and the rain has stopped.

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I'm choking up now.

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But it's when you can see the floor.

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The floor is reflective.

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Yes.

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And so you would have seen the rain in it in the previous scene.

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So the moment you see that floor, with the lighting different, you

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know that enough time has passed and that rain is over.

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Yeah.

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Like I know I know for a fact I bawled the 1st time I watched that

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scene.

249
00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:15.539
I absolutely bore it.

250
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:17.580
Oh, sorry, I'm just going to get everyone.

251
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.299
Oh God, Italy is just, it's so, it's so good.

252
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.059
And it's not the only time she does stuff with reflections in the

253
00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:24.480
story.

254
00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:29.460
She does it in a very uncanny way in the house where Larry's

255
00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:33.240
staring at the Dooda, the angel, and Sally's trying to get out and

256
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:36.539
there's a mirror in the hallway and it uses the mirror to show her

257
00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:40.500
as much as it does actually looking at her, which is using

258
00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:42.120
reflections in a slightly creepier way.

259
00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:46.740
Um, but yeah, no, it was just, um, what was said about, um, about

260
00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:47.820
life being over so quickly.

261
00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:52.200
And one of the things that really made that work for me was that

262
00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:56.580
the people being sent back in time, Kathy and Billy, they didn't

263
00:13:56.580 --> 00:14:00.600
have like short, horrible, tragic, miserable lives in the times

264
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:01.379
they were in.

265
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.639
They're both shown to have happy fulfilling lives that they don't

266
00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:10.559
regret that, you know, they, they, um, found joy in.

267
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:15.480
And uh, and yet that's still layered with the sadness of it being

268
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:16.379
over.

269
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:21.179
And to me, that kind of, that makes it more relatable and more

270
00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:25.559
meaningful because we're not being asked to, 0 my god, it's so

271
00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.179
terrible, long life miserable.

272
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:31.139
But it's that, yeah, it cuts out that idea of it being a

273
00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.720
completely horrific thing that the angels are doing to you and

274
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.259
you're focussing on the fact that it's, yeah, it's about the

275
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:40.320
quickness of time passing instead.

276
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:41.820
It's really neat.

277
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:44.279
It's really beautiful, isn't it?

278
00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:44.879
There's that.

279
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:50.100
Do you remember young Billy says to Sally, life is short and you

280
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:50.879
are hard.

281
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:55.259
And then old Billy says life is long and you're hot.

282
00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:57.840
And just the idea that life is long.

283
00:14:57.899 --> 00:14:58.980
Like life is long.

284
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.860
He lived another 50 years.

285
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.820
But it's still tragic that it's over.

286
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.480
And, you know, Doctor Who Death is usually so stupid.

287
00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:11.220
Like you get shot.

288
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:15.240
You get shot in the in the throat, you clutch your stomach and

289
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.919
then fall over sort of thing.

290
00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:18.840
You know, there's a ray gun or something like that.

291
00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:21.840
You find a comfortable spot to land and move out of the way, so

292
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.220
canine can get down the corridor.

293
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

294
00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:26.639
You get hugged to death by robot mummies or something.

295
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:28.740
Like the whole thing is so sort of preposterous.

296
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.340
But having real proper death and here's what it means.

297
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.879
And the new series has done death sort of rather better than the

298
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.159
classic series often does.

299
00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:43.860
But this, I think, is its best treatment of death today.

300
00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:47.820
No, because it's, yeah, because as you say, it's just like kind of

301
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:51.720
often a sort of comedy window dressing.

302
00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:54.480
I mean, my favourite story for Death is a chair of the autons.

303
00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.059
And none of those, I actually feel particularly bad for the

304
00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:57.539
characters.

305
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.759
I think it's hilarious though, where they're dispatched, which

306
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.519
isn't necessarily the best thing when you're doing that every

307
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:03.240
single time.

308
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:06.659
But yeah, part of part of the reason Blink works so well.

309
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.679
I mean, I sometimes I feel like the weeping angels and the

310
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.620
brilliance of them overshadows everything else that's brilliant in

311
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:19.259
it, but that's such a, um, such a compassionate and kind way of

312
00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:24.600
looking at the end of life and not being um, sentimental or

313
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:29.519
softening it, but not being cruel about it, um, is is just, yeah

314
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:30.899
it's really moving.

315
00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:35.759
And both, um, Billy and Kathy's deaths are treated, treated in

316
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:39.059
that way that you really feel that these are real people.

317
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.960
There's a realism to the whole episode that is relatively unusual

318
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.379
in Doctor Who as a whole, um, which obviously benefits uh, partly

319
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:49.019
from the doctor being in it for a minimum amount of time.

320
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.080
But these, um, occasionally you get characters wandering into

321
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.440
Doctor Who that do feel realer than what we often have.

322
00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:59.460
There's a lot of them, I think, in season 7, uh, parties 1st

323
00:16:59.460 --> 00:16:59.700
season.

324
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:05.640
Um, and here we have another handful of them that, uh, they have

325
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.359
they have that extra feeling of, of, of depth and seriousness

326
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:14.160
that's um, often absent or is minimised because of the

327
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.779
extraordinariness of the situation.

328
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.079
Whereas this, it's very, it's very down low, it's very creepy.

329
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:24.180
Such, there are no real, there's like, I wouldn't say real, because

330
00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:26.759
that's not true, there's practical effects, but there's, there's

331
00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:29.160
nothing glitzy about the special effects here.

332
00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:33.539
It's all done in, oh, it's done such a nice sense.

333
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.019
It's a nice simplistic way that this could have been made anytime

334
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:40.019
in the past 50 years and still have been beautifully done.

335
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:45.839
Yeah, I think that is such a good point. sort of, there are

336
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.980
stories which, if they had been made for the classic series, the

337
00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:52.619
limitations of the special effects back then would have impacted

338
00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:57.000
the ability to tell the story, say the end of the world, which is

339
00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:01.319
still a very good script, but as you say, I was watching this this

340
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.299
afternoon thinking this is almost a stage play.

341
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:08.640
You know, you've got Kathy's flat, you've got the DVD shop, you've

342
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:10.740
got the house, and you've got the police station, really.

343
00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:15.180
You've got those 4 locations. hospital as well, I suppose.

344
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.740
It could be a stage by it. has that quality where they are simply

345
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:23.339
relying on the performances of the actors to tell the story.

346
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.099
And of course, the weeping angels don't have voice.

347
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.119
And even when they're given voice in later stories.

348
00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.599
There's a conceit around it that we're not quite really hearing

349
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.640
them speaking sort of thing.

350
00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:39.599
They are that alien, that they do not communicate through speech

351
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:43.259
or through telepathy or any other way that we have had aliens

352
00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:45.119
communicate indocto before.

353
00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:45.960
They don't communicate.

354
00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:50.279
We don't know how they communicate to one another because nothing

355
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:51.119
is known about them.

356
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:58.740
And that makes them even scarier and almost love crafty in their

357
00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:00.539
design and conception.

358
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.119
Yeah, there is, there is quite a lot of crafty vibe there, whereas

359
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:08.579
both the beginning of the universe thing and the, it's not a true

360
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:13.200
sort of weird existential horror thing, but it is, there is a

361
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.740
there is a horrific sort of stretch, human, but not quite

362
00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:20.700
humanness of them that really is quite freaky.

363
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:24.539
The unexpected sharp teeth on the inside as well. that um, yeah.

364
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.960
I think that's the moment where I jumped, like again.

365
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:28.859
And I knew it was coming.

366
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:30.000
Of course, I knew it was coming.

367
00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:32.400
But, you know, there's a musical sting.

368
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.339
It's the 1st time Larry, I think, sees the teeth.

369
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:35.759
Is that right?

370
00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:36.660
Yeah, yeah.

371
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:38.819
And he's really close.

372
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.000
That thing too, where he can't sort of stop himself from blinking

373
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:42.779
or whatever.

374
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.000
And then suddenly it's like right in his face.

375
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:49.079
Like it's it's really good and he sells that so well.

376
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.839
That scene where he's just absolutely frightened.

377
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:53.519
The camera is right in his face.

378
00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:55.799
He's looking straight at us.

379
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:59.039
We're watching his eyes for any sign that he's going to blink.

380
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:00.480
It's super tense.

381
00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:04.920
And he still manages to be kind of really funny and likeable as

382
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:05.160
well.

383
00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:10.140
It's funny how when he turns up, he says, you live in Scooby-Doo's

384
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.940
house and he's basically shaggy.

385
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:20.400
It's another one of, you know, Stephen Moffatt is a writer who

386
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:25.920
talks about masculinity like quite a lot and, you know, right from

387
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:30.480
coupling and even joking apart, I think it sort of interrogates

388
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.700
the smart man, the smart, smug man sort of thing.

389
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.640
And, you know, both of his doctors deal with that too.

390
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:43.859
And Larry is sort of, he's a little bit like Oliver, a little bit

391
00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:47.940
like Jeff from coupling, you know, like he's a super nerd and he's

392
00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:52.079
got the t-shirt and, you know, his mates are the internet and all

393
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:52.799
of that sort of thing.

394
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:59.160
And Sally, I think Sally seems a bit less typical.

395
00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:04.019
She's very smart and she does say apparently when she's annoyed.

396
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:05.460
Like Susan.

397
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:06.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

398
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:09.180
Yeah, I was thinking about coupling as well.

399
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:15.240
And I think what sets Sally apart is, you know, all the characters

400
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:17.460
in coupling have their fatal flaw, if you like.

401
00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:22.140
Sally doesn't really seem to have a fatal flaw that's based in

402
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:24.059
hubris, like the coupling characters do.

403
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:24.599
Yeah.

404
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.420
You know, she's a flawed character and she doesn't know everything

405
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:33.900
but she is a lot more of an ideal person without being hyper

406
00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:34.380
perfect.

407
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.640
So she's believable.

408
00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:36.779
Yeah.

409
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:38.339
I absolutely adore her.

410
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.660
It's a detective story and we get Sally and Kathy joking about

411
00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:47.400
being an ITV detective duo, but it's a detective story with an

412
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.660
amateur sleuth, but figuring things out in a way that we, the

413
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:53.940
audience, can figure out as well.

414
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.980
She's an expertly crafted character because she doesn't talk down

415
00:21:58.980 --> 00:21:59.759
to the audience.

416
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.579
She's on the same level as the audience.

417
00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:08.220
And when she figures out and we figure stuff out, we get that

418
00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:11.759
she's clever, we feel clever being brought along with her.

419
00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:15.059
I can see why Stephen Moffatt tried to bring her back several

420
00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:15.480
times.

421
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:18.420
Yeah, that is the brilliant thing.

422
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.720
Other than Carrie Milligan's performance, which is just, God, it's

423
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:22.319
amazing.

424
00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:25.319
We get her here in an early role being so brilliant, but that

425
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.579
sense that, yes, she's obviously clever, and that satisfaction is

426
00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:33.359
an audience of, yet absolutely figuring it out, she goes along

427
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.119
which is so rare, generally speaking, detective shows.

428
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:37.380
The detective knows more than us.

429
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.220
They're ahead of us.

430
00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:42.119
Sometimes they cheat, and it's not things that fall down to make

431
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.839
sense, but in a, in a, if anything, we have a slight advantage

432
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:47.819
here because we know it's Doctor Who.

433
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:53.279
We know there's time travel involved, but everything is at, we're

434
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.640
giving enough information to sort of be able to guess at it, but

435
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.700
the moment of confirmation is the same as when, when Sally is

436
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:03.299
getting it, and that sense of satisfaction as a viewer of having

437
00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:06.599
the mystery set up and then the reveal. is fantastic.

438
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:09.839
And that's the sort of sad thing about rewatches of this because

439
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.019
you're never going to get that 1st time watch back.

440
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:17.460
And this is a story where the 1st time watch is just glorious on

441
00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:18.359
so many levels.

442
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.980
But yeah, I miss, I miss having the delightful surprise and

443
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.579
satisfaction of the mystery reveals as we go along.

444
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:40.619
I do like the stages of it, but it is kind of funny, the way that

445
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:47.099
the way that it kind of works is because it's Doctor Who and

446
00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:48.660
because there's time travel.

447
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.220
You know, one of the things that a detective writer does is

448
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:58.799
carefully sets everything up and provides clues and red herrings

449
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:00.119
and all of those kinds of things.

450
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:02.579
A good detective writer.

451
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.960
Some of them cheat.

452
00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:09.660
But the doctor is kind of doing that here, isn't he?

453
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.359
Like the doctor is kind of setting things up.

454
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:18.059
So the doctor has the message under the wallpaper, but also tells

455
00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:23.220
tells Billy to tell Sally to read the list and that leads her to

456
00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:24.000
the next discovery.

457
00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:27.240
You know, there's something that the doctor's doing in the

458
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:27.720
background.

459
00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:31.200
And I couldn't help thinking all the time that I was watching it

460
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:35.519
that because Stephen Moffatt is sort of famous for these puzzle

461
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:37.079
box plots.

462
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.259
Which is basically the fault of this story.

463
00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:44.400
Because it's this one and it's like nothing else is quite like

464
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:44.759
this.

465
00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:47.400
And yet we expect them to do this every single time.

466
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:50.220
You have to be this good every single time or you have failed

467
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:51.299
Stephen Moffatt.

468
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.019
I think that, you know, next year when he does the 2 parter and

469
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:59.220
the 2 parter has lots of questions, you know, is a sort of very

470
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:03.059
weird puzzle box, it's impossible, the 1st time you watch it, to

471
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:06.000
know exactly what's going on and how it's going to resolve

472
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:06.299
itself.

473
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:10.259
And in true Stephen Moffatt fashion, It resolves itself perfectly

474
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:13.859
and all makes sense, even though I think by the cliffhanger, you're

475
00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:17.519
absolutely wondering how, you know, how can all of these things be

476
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:17.940
happening?

477
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:22.740
And so the doctor and Stephen Moffatt seem to be having a similar

478
00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:28.740
role here in the episode, that there's something here, which

479
00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:32.039
whether it's deliberately or inadvertently, has Moffatt sort of

480
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:36.420
commenting on his own craft as someone who devises plants.

481
00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:38.579
That's interesting.

482
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:39.359
I like that.

483
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:44.880
Well, that bit at the end, you know, where, where does Larry say

484
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:49.619
look, sometimes we just don't find out what happened and that's

485
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:49.920
okay.

486
00:25:49.980 --> 00:25:55.740
You know, there's a kind of a way of watching Doctor Who, where it

487
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:59.460
doesn't matter if everything's not resolved or if you get to the

488
00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:04.200
fridge afterwards and, you know, take out a milk bottle or

489
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:06.359
something and then you think, actually, how could that even

490
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.319
possibly have happened?

491
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.619
You know, there's a way in which that doesn't, that doesn't matter

492
00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:15.000
and plenty of fantastic Doctor Who doesn't tell you everything.

493
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:19.680
But that's not Moffatt's Doctor Who, you know.

494
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:23.940
And Sally, who is standing in 1st Stephen Moffatt here, says, no, I

495
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:24.779
have to know.

496
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:26.279
It has to resolve itself.

497
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:28.200
It has to make proper sense.

498
00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:32.460
And then within sort of 2 minutes, the thing happens that makes it

499
00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:34.259
all make proper sense and fit together.

500
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:35.339
Yeah, yeah.

501
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:37.680
I definitely think that as if you're watching the episode at that

502
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.740
point, you're like yelling at Larry going, no, we need the

503
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:41.339
answer.

504
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:42.059
We have to find out.

505
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:43.500
I just all resolve.

506
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.099
So I feel very onside of Sally Sparrow at that moment, and then as

507
00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:49.559
you're sort of inwardly yelling, if you're me.

508
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:52.079
Then the exhale is, ah, there we go.

509
00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:53.460
We now know everything.

510
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.240
It's all good.

511
00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:55.680
Yeah, yeah.

512
00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:58.680
And there's just a few little details around those scenes that I

513
00:26:58.680 --> 00:26:59.039
love.

514
00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:02.220
First of all, you know, this is one year later after the main

515
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:06.480
narrative, and there's an earlier point in the episode which says

516
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:10.440
that this episode is taking place in 2007, which, from the

517
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.319
perspective of the new series of Doctor Who is contemporaneous

518
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:18.359
with series 2, because each one of Russell's series is the year

519
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.299
ahead of production, because of that 12 months.

520
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:27.119
So that year means that the doctor and Martha are back on Earth

521
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.859
contemporaneous with her timeline.

522
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:29.640
Right.

523
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:33.779
So, you know, this is sort of Martha just popping home briefly

524
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:40.019
between 42 and the sound of drums, kind of to find a to find a 4

525
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:43.200
things and a lizard, 5 minutes to red hatching.

526
00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:48.240
And I also love because I was watching this in the knowledge that

527
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.019
they've often asked Kerry Mulligan to come back.

528
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:54.720
And of course, her star has risen and she's doing amazing things

529
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:56.039
in other productions now.

530
00:27:56.099 --> 00:28:01.259
But I watched that scene where she hands over the folder to the

531
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:04.740
doctor and as she takes Larry's hand, I'm like, you know what?

532
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:09.240
I'm actually glad that we haven't revisited Sally Sparrow and

533
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:13.920
Larry Nightingale, because with her conversation with Larry

534
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:19.019
beforehand, she can't, she can't get on with her life until she

535
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:21.240
has closed the loop with the doctor.

536
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.640
And when she closes it, she doesn't say the doctor, take me with

537
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:23.819
you.

538
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:25.079
She doesn't say I want to go travelling.

539
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:26.160
Let me see the TARDS again.

540
00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:28.380
It's like, actually, no, I'm good now.

541
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:29.700
I'm ready I'm ready to go on.

542
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.500
And yeah, I've often said that with Amy and Rory's story, I kind

543
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:37.380
of wish there were several earlier points where that could have

544
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:41.160
ended and I really like the ending of Sally and Larry's story

545
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.279
within the world of the doctor here and they go back into their

546
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:46.259
shop and Bantos nowhere to be seen.

547
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.359
They've bought him out.

548
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:49.440
They're free-named it.

549
00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:50.819
Yeah, that's the final shot.

550
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.400
It's Barrow and Nightingale.

551
00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:59.880
Um, I just, I just really like that, that because we've, we were

552
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.839
discussing earlier how, despite the tragedy of Billy and Kathy

553
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.619
being sent back in time, they did have their full lives and as, as

554
00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:10.440
Larry says, they're like, I think your obsession is getting in the

555
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:11.519
way of your life.

556
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.960
There certainly isn't a comment on any companions, I'm sure.

557
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:18.420
Or us.

558
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.460
But it's, Oh my goodness.

559
00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:22.319
No.

560
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:24.960
I don't need that.

561
00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:26.039
But exactly.

562
00:29:26.099 --> 00:29:27.180
Badlands.

563
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:28.920
I did hear that.

564
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:35.279
But Larry and Banto are a comment on fandom.

565
00:29:35.339 --> 00:29:38.579
You know, Larry's got the t-shirt and he's on the egg forums and

566
00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:41.819
the doctor says, look to your left and he says, I think that's a

567
00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:42.359
political statement.

568
00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:46.380
How many times have I argued with David from the Doctor Who show

569
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:49.799
about the politics of the Sunmakers for God's sake.

570
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:50.700
You know?

571
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:54.720
I couldn't pretend it's a comet on Meal Phantom.

572
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:57.960
I think you can, particularly Banto.

573
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:01.440
Bantos are particularly kind of horrible kind of male fan.

574
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:05.640
Yeah, well, the script refers to him, rather uncharitably, as all

575
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.960
gut and a tight T-shirt.

576
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:09.119
I feel really attacked, right?

577
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:14.519
Banto, you know, he's kind of presented as a bit useless because

578
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.279
Sally walks in and he's just like, oh, yeah, Larry's doing that

579
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:17.519
whatever.

580
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:21.000
But as she's leaving the shop, he's the one who says, why does no

581
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.059
one ever go to the police, like lamp shading this whole thing?

582
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:24.660
Yeah.

583
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:26.160
But does that give her the idea?

584
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:27.420
Like, that gives her the idea.

585
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.039
Isn't that why she goes for the toilet?

586
00:30:29.099 --> 00:30:30.240
That's what I mean.

587
00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:34.740
It's like he's set up to be a stereotypical, useless fanboy.

588
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:36.420
Bit harsh.

589
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.160
It a perfectly reasonable comment.

590
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:41.099
I have heard fanboys make before and I agree with them.

591
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:42.240
That's a good point.

592
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:43.140
Oh, absolutely.

593
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:43.859
Yeah, yeah.

594
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.440
It's an important comment and it speeds the plot along.

595
00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:49.680
In fact, the fandom thing with Larry.

596
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:51.839
Sally is very sweet about it.

597
00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:55.019
You know, like she doesn't make fun of him or anything.

598
00:30:55.319 --> 00:31:01.140
And, you know, sometimes you can imagine Stephen Moffatt writing

599
00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:05.160
someone being a little bit more dismissive, like some of the

600
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:06.599
characters in coupling.

601
00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:08.579
And she thinks it's funny.

602
00:31:08.700 --> 00:31:14.339
Like that smile that she gives when she decodes his reference to

603
00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:18.119
you know, his mates and she says, you know, that's the internet

604
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:18.720
isn't it?

605
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.099
It's very sweet.

606
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:21.779
Like she's she's lovely.

607
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.920
I think the 2 of them, they don't sort of get any scenes where

608
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.339
they're sort of growing, you know, warm and attached to one

609
00:31:29.339 --> 00:31:32.940
another in any overt way, but they go through this thing

610
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:33.420
together.

611
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.039
Then we get a year.

612
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:37.980
And like I think it's a credible ending.

613
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:40.200
Yeah, that's the other reason I don't want them to come back

614
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:42.539
because Stephen Ruffoot would just melt them or turn one of them

615
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:43.559
into a Zygon or something.

616
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:45.839
Yeah, or they'd be getting divorced or something.

617
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:46.740
Yeah, yeah.

618
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.240
Divorced for no readily apparently.

619
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:49.200
Yeah.

620
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:54.839
No, I do think it's a perfect kind of story that can be left alone

621
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:56.220
quite well.

622
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:59.339
And I suppose there are a lot of things that you could say about

623
00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:02.279
that in Doctor Who that did come back and I probably like most of

624
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.839
them, but I think seeing this in context of however many, 0 god

625
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:08.339
it's been like over 10 years, doesn't it?

626
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.220
10 years later, you're like, it does feel very nice that these, you

627
00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:15.000
have the complete thing.

628
00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:16.140
It has a happy ending.

629
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.420
People die, but not in horrible ways.

630
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:23.460
Um, and yeah, I think them coming through that kind of uh, trauma

631
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:26.940
terror together is definitely the sort of thing that, you know

632
00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:30.059
that uh, a new understanding of the other person for you have both

633
00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:33.420
survived, weird stuff that you can't talk to anyone else about

634
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:33.839
especially.

635
00:32:33.900 --> 00:32:38.819
And um, I think they do a really good job with the uh, makeup and

636
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:40.319
the acting of Larry.

637
00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:45.119
So you definitely get the sense that he has become a, a, I don't

638
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.140
necessarily grown up.

639
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:48.900
That seems harsh, but you do see if you get the feeling that he's

640
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:50.759
grown up in the interim in the year between.

641
00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:52.980
He does feel like a more put together person.

642
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.200
And in a very short space of screen time there.

643
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:56.460
So I really like how it's done.

644
00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:00.660
I'm glad you spotted that as well, because yeah, his hair looks a

645
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:04.619
bit neater, his beard looks a bit neater. clothes are ironed, you

646
00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.920
know, it's just, it's just little, those little clues.

647
00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:12.299
Yeah, even though he's standing, he's standing with a sense of

648
00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:15.359
self-assurance that he didn't, he didn't have before, he seems

649
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.900
like, yeah, he seems like I know who I am a lot more now, which

650
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:21.480
you know, again, could be partially due to the trauma as well as

651
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.119
Sally's friendship slash romantic thing.

652
00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:25.740
It's like, oh, look at me.

653
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:29.039
I have a person who can survive terrifying weird things and get on

654
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:29.460
with life.

655
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.059
Great.

656
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:34.140
In fact, maybe there's a little bit of a sort of crossover because

657
00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:39.299
you know, Sally's definitely the one who has hand in the, you know

658
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:43.500
in the relationship at the very beginning, like she wins in sort

659
00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:47.940
of any interaction between them, but she hasn't been able to let

660
00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:49.440
go and he has.

661
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:54.240
And so he's moved on and grown up and she's stayed where she is.

662
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:55.019
Yeah.

663
00:33:55.019 --> 00:33:59.279
So he's the one that's showing the emotional maturity, even though

664
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.559
we, the audience, in our immature famishness.

665
00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:03.359
What the gosh darn dancers.

666
00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:05.099
But yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

667
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:08.639
I think that isn't that is a nice, you know, an evening out.

668
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:12.599
I know it's, uh, yeah, I think that, yeah, I do, I do really like

669
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:13.139
that about it.

670
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.420
Even though it would be a bit weird if he was the one who hadn't

671
00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:16.320
moved on, that would make sense.

672
00:34:16.380 --> 00:34:20.460
But it's, uh, it's nice to see that he's the more emotionally well

673
00:34:20.460 --> 00:34:21.000
adjusted one.

674
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.579
Given that rule is normally given to the woman.

675
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:38.820
I really like the way that a whole bunch of mysteries are set up

676
00:34:38.820 --> 00:34:42.480
the start and that we get answers to them all in succession

677
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:42.780
things.

678
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.139
Like, the teaser is that, you know, tearing wallpaper off the wall

679
00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:48.360
and having someone speak to you like that.

680
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:49.860
That's an amazing teaser.

681
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:51.960
I don't know if there's ever been a better one than that.

682
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:57.119
And then to have the delivery of the letter, and the weirdness of

683
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:58.980
letter, 1st of all, it's to her.

684
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:01.980
And then you solely realise it's from the path.

685
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.500
Well, not solar is, but it's been a very long time coming.

686
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:09.360
And it's from his grandmother and you're suddenly like, 0 my

687
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:09.599
gosh.

688
00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:13.019
And then he confirms that he's the grandson and that was just the

689
00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:18.059
beats of that scene or series of scenes. series of scenes.

690
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.519
The beats of their, of the, the slow reveal.

691
00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:21.900
It's just it's so satisfying.

692
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.860
And they do it again with the DVD extras, setting it up.

693
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:28.860
And then when you finally get the conversation happening, it's

694
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:31.679
like, oh, the 1st time seeing that, it's like, this is, this is

695
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:32.219
brilliant.

696
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:33.000
This is genius.

697
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.420
How weird and bizarre and exciting is this to watch?

698
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.460
And it's a bloody conversation with the computer screen

699
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:39.360
effectively they're having.

700
00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:40.739
This is so good.

701
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.199
It's really incredible, isn't it?

702
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:45.480
I think that 1st scene that you mentioned.

703
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:49.920
Once you watch it for the 2nd time and you know who the letter's

704
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:55.739
from, seeing Kathy in the background of that scene as well, is

705
00:35:55.739 --> 00:36:01.199
really amazing because she's there listening and sort of trying to

706
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:04.920
work out how to leave and things and trying not to be seen.

707
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:09.480
And I think that just adds a sort of extra kind of Frisson to that

708
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:09.840
scene.

709
00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:10.920
Indeed.

710
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:13.260
And it's another use of that big mirror you were talking about

711
00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:17.280
earlier, Liz, because that's how Kathy is observing the

712
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:17.699
conversation.

713
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:23.280
I have to confess that in 2007, before we all had computers in our

714
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.280
pockets, when I 1st watched it and didn't immediately have access

715
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:28.980
to Wikipedia or things, I thought, is that Daniel Craig?

716
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:30.719
No.

717
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:36.599
It's a good choice to have him look weird and old-fashioned as

718
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:36.840
well.

719
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:38.699
Like he's out of time.

720
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:39.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.260
And then the DVD extras.

722
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.440
I mean, we've barely talked about the doctor and Martha and

723
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:50.400
obviously they're barely in it, but the DVD extras conversation is

724
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.420
incredible, isn't it?

725
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:55.980
And the way that Sally nearly starts to have that conversation

726
00:36:55.980 --> 00:37:00.900
with the doctor, when she's in the back room at Bantos, just

727
00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:03.900
listening to sort of one DVD extra.

728
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:07.320
And then when the conversation actually happens and we've already

729
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:08.280
heard that bit.

730
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:11.159
It's so incredibly well done.

731
00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:17.880
And even the fact that, um, you feel like that they could hear

732
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.099
each other, that surely they can hear each other.

733
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.219
And partly it is because David Tennant, even though the doctor is

734
00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:27.960
just reading from a transcript, Tennant is acting as if he can

735
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:28.679
hear her speak.

736
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.420
Yes, yeah.

737
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.960
Yeah, and that's that's another one of the business bets where you

738
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:36.840
get to feel clever because you're like, 0 my god, it's a

739
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:38.940
conversation, but they don't work it out till later.

740
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.400
So you're like, aha, I was told that earlier.

741
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:45.659
So I knew it before you, Sally Sparrow. which is very helpful.

742
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.679
There's some of the, some of the bits with, one of the reasons

743
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.920
that I really, really love this episode and I feel very chill

744
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.659
watching it is because there's no bits between Martha and the

745
00:37:57.659 --> 00:38:01.079
doctor that make me wince and go, why are you being so mean to

746
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:01.440
Martha?

747
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:02.940
Kind of dumb.

748
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.260
It's just Martha.

749
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.000
Martha's my RTD companion.

750
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:07.800
Martha's the one that I empathised with.

751
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:14.820
And to feel that your identification figure is just being mean to

752
00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:16.800
all the time or every other episode.

753
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:18.539
It doesn't make you feel good.

754
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.460
It was not, it was not very happy for me.

755
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:22.679
I have to ignore those bits from watching season 3, which is

756
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:25.139
really annoying because this is my favourite RTD season and yet I

757
00:38:25.139 --> 00:38:29.039
have to go, la la, la, it didn't happen. at some point in almost

758
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:29.639
every episode.

759
00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:34.079
Yeah, which is why it had terrible, terrible knock on effects

760
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:36.480
because I don't really care all much about Donna.

761
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.539
And the reason being, when we've got a new one, I was like, well, I

762
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.239
know not to get attached to you because I know what happened last

763
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:42.539
time.

764
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.599
And also, I don't want to get attached to you because you were

765
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:47.579
really mean to the one that I loved.

766
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:50.219
So I'm not going to have any feelings for this new one.

767
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:56.400
I was doing a doctor there because I had felt betrayed at the way

768
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:58.619
that my companion had been treated.

769
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.159
But we've got, it's okay, it's because she's in it for like a

770
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:03.059
minute here.

771
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:04.440
At least at least we have that.

772
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:06.420
She does have a bow and arrow, which is very cool.

773
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:09.599
And she does annoyingly have my favourite outfit of hers for that

774
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:14.039
one scene in 1969, which is like, god damn it, really?

775
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:14.880
One scene.

776
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:17.880
But yeah.

777
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:22.320
So that was quite pleasing in this, yeah. beloved Martha.

778
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:25.920
We've been talking a lot over the last few episodes about how mean

779
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.719
the doctor is to Martha and how unpleasant and difficult it is to

780
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:37.019
watch. and and even when he's not actively being mean to her.

781
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.019
Like when he kind of welcomes her on board at the end of the

782
00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:44.940
Lazarus experiment and he does seem to tone all of that sort of

783
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:50.340
stuff down, she ends up, you know, having to scrub floors or yeah

784
00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:51.719
she has to work in a shop.

785
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:57.059
And she just seems to have a really undeserved bad time of it.

786
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:01.980
And Freema is so charming, like just so charming.

787
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:05.760
I mean, I just think that Martha lights up the screen in every

788
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.659
scene she's in.

789
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.960
I think she's just wonderful, massively underappreciated.

790
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:13.380
Yep, I absolutely adore her.

791
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:17.039
And um, Liz, you may, you may have heard on the show before I

792
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:21.300
occasionally mentioned that I do, I do wrestling as a sport and

793
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:23.340
we've got a, um, we've got a club here in Sydney.

794
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:27.239
We've got a sister club in Melbourne and I'm fascinated to find

795
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:27.960
out where this is going.

796
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:33.539
Well, after the Melbourne Club got set up, some of them flew up

797
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:38.400
here for our Christmas party, and I met one of them, and I think I

798
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.880
must have been wearing a Doctor Who badge or something, and so I

799
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:43.440
weren't wearing your Bonnie Langford outfit.

800
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:44.519
I wasn't wearing my ballet.

801
00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:46.260
No, well, I only found that again recently.

802
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:47.400
It's been in the garage.

803
00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:53.579
Um, time of the Rani Bonnie Langford outfit.

804
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:56.400
I was going to ask, because it's like, is it the pink one or the

805
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.320
blue one because I assume it must be one of those two.

806
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:01.559
Yep, yeah, pink stripy shirt and white boots.

807
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:05.280
Anyway, um, so I'm I'm like 5 foot four.

808
00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:06.119
So I'm not very tall.

809
00:41:06.179 --> 00:41:11.219
One of the Melbourne wrestlers. is just shy of 6 foot.

810
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:12.719
Quite burly.

811
00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.900
Sees me wearing, I think Doctor Who shirt, Doctor Who badge.

812
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:16.440
I'm not sure.

813
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:18.539
He's just like, oh, are you a Doctor Who fan?

814
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:19.079
I said, yes.

815
00:41:19.139 --> 00:41:20.579
And he said, the old one or the new one?

816
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:21.300
I said, oh, both.

817
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:22.800
He's like, I really like the new one.

818
00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:24.059
I'm like, oh, okay.

819
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:25.500
He said, and you know what?

820
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:27.059
They need to bring back Martha.

821
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:32.579
Martha was, so I've got this, you know, 3 foot across. 6 foot tall

822
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:34.260
guy extolling how?

823
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.440
Martha was the companion the doctor needed.

824
00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:41.039
He didn't need someone else to just tell him how brilliant he

825
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:41.280
was.

826
00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:43.320
No, he needed someone to snap him out of it.

827
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:46.019
And, you know, be his friend no matter what.

828
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:47.400
And that's who Martha is.

829
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.579
She gets stuck in 1969 and works in a shop.

830
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:52.139
Now, she doesn't, she doesn't just take it.

831
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:54.360
She complains about it, but she sticks by him.

832
00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:57.360
And he said, I've got the leather jacket.

833
00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:59.099
I've got the red leather jacket.

834
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:00.960
I found it in a market in my size.

835
00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:04.019
It's a woman's leather jacket, but it looks good on me.

836
00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:09.059
I just thought because I always liked Martha, but that gave me an

837
00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:13.440
idea that, you know, of course, Doctor Who fans were in our sphere

838
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:18.539
and we hear people say, oh, you know, like no one likes the space

839
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:19.980
pirates kind of thing.

840
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:21.000
No one likes this.

841
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:24.960
The Time Monster gang you did at the beginning, Nathan, you know

842
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:26.699
people will say no one likes a Time Monster.

843
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.159
Well, I think it's pretty fair to say all 3 of us really like the

844
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.260
time monster and not in an ironic way.

845
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:32.280
I know.

846
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:35.699
Yeah, I do feel like there's there's quite a, if you admit to

847
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:38.880
liking the Time Monster, Then suddenly a lot of people come out of

848
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.820
the woodwork and are like, yeah, it's a good one.

849
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:47.460
I like, yes, yeah, I feel, yeah, admit the Doctor Who stories that

850
00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:51.300
you, you like, unless it's monster pelodon, in which case, you

851
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:52.019
should keep that to yourself.

852
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.400
That's terrible.

853
00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:55.019
Oh, God, I'm gatekeep.

854
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.179
I'm so sorry.

855
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:57.900
I'm sorry.

856
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.960
But I mean, Martha has that status, doesn't she?

857
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:04.440
Like, she's in series 2, which everyone, you know, really

858
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:08.940
remembers, and then series 4, which went incredibly well.

859
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:13.920
But Freemer is, you know, really something and I really love

860
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:14.760
series 3 as well.

861
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:19.199
Yeah, the problem is it's supposed to the one I most love of RTDs

862
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:21.000
and it's the one that makes me angry.

863
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.579
Because I want the season.

864
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:27.599
What I should really do is get is rip DVDs for all the episodes

865
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:30.659
and just cut out the little bits that I find that are just too

866
00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:31.260
much.

867
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.300
And then I will have a beautiful season.

868
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:36.900
It's just, 0 man, I get so teed off at the end of it, when the

869
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:40.440
sound of drums, she has some of the greatest companion scenes of

870
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.719
all time with her coming down to the earth.

871
00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:48.300
I'm coming back and walking away into this terrifying dystopia of

872
00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:51.659
little human balls that her entire world has become.

873
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:53.760
And she walks around the world for a year.

874
00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:56.699
Basically trying to convince people that the doctor's absurd plan

875
00:43:56.699 --> 00:43:58.860
is going to work and she does it.

876
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:00.780
And what does she get at the end?

877
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.519
She's like, you know what?

878
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:03.179
I was good.

879
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:04.800
Does the doctor agree with her?

880
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:06.539
Does the doctor say anything lovely to her?

881
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:10.920
No, he just sort of stands there like an utter chump and I want

882
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:11.760
to...

883
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.679
Bad things to happen to him at that moment?

884
00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:17.099
How dare you let Arthur walk away without telling her how

885
00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:17.940
brilliant she is?

886
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:22.980
Gosh, I, oh, I, Still, still not happy.

887
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:23.760
Still not happy.

888
00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:26.639
In fact, let me continue the strands a little further.

889
00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:30.599
Not 5 or 6 episodes into the next season.

890
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:34.800
We get the, some Taran 2 parter, where the doctor thinks for a

891
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:37.380
moment that Donna's, Donna's going to leave him when she actually

892
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:39.960
just wants to pop off home and see her dad and grandfather, and

893
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.659
he's into this big speech about, oh, you were brilliant.

894
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:43.260
I love you so much.

895
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:43.860
You're so great.

896
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.760
Oh, please don't go.

897
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:45.659
It going to be terrible without you.

898
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:48.300
It's like, you haven't even been with her for half a season.

899
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:50.519
She hasn't done very much at all.

900
00:44:50.579 --> 00:44:54.780
And Martha, Martha spent a year of her life with the world

901
00:44:54.780 --> 00:44:58.139
destroyed, her family could be murdered at any moment.

902
00:44:58.139 --> 00:44:59.820
And you say nothing to her.

903
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:02.940
I mean, seriously, geez, what's wrong with you, man?

904
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:04.619
What is wrong with you, doctor?

905
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:05.880
And this is why.

906
00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:08.880
I have some issues with the 10th doctor.

907
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:16.260
Some very well-balanced kept under the roof issues that I don't

908
00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:18.000
let out very often.

909
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.239
All of that sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

910
00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:22.199
Thank you.

911
00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:24.059
I like invalidated.

912
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:27.420
It makes me feel that my unreasonableness is, you know, is

913
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:29.579
reasonable really, quietly, quietly reasonable.

914
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:34.800
Yeah, we fans all have our one thing which a lot of other fans

915
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:37.440
don't get until we describe it as the way you've described it.

916
00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:40.380
I know people go, ah, for me, it's black org.

917
00:45:41.820 --> 00:45:45.480
But I shan't go into that again here, you know, we've got a time

918
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:45.840
limit.

919
00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:51.059
Yeah, it just sucks me it's been it's been 10 years and I still am

920
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:52.500
so pissed off.

921
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:54.480
It's like, what do you need?

922
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:55.679
I get over it.

923
00:45:56.099 --> 00:46:00.599
We need 17 box sets from Big Finish to rectify this, quite

924
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:01.199
frankly.

925
00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:02.699
I think that's what we need.

926
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.199
But my my thinking has always been, it would have been so good to

927
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:12.119
have the family of blood, human nature, 2 parter, as the 1st 2

928
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:15.059
parter, because that's kind of the emotional crescendo of their

929
00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:20.280
relationship, and it's kind of the, her feelings are acknowledged

930
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:23.579
and it's kind of like it's not going to happen, but we've reached

931
00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:25.139
a state of equilibrium with it.

932
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:27.900
But it takes us too long to get there.

933
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:28.380
Yeah.

934
00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:33.480
Yeah, and so as such, sort of the brilliance of Freemer's

935
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:38.099
performance has to get through this sort of pining that the script

936
00:46:38.099 --> 00:46:39.420
asks her to do.

937
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:46.559
I think by now, like by this point in the season, though, like the

938
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:47.880
doctor trusts her.

939
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:54.480
And we spoke last week about, there's just a couple of times where

940
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:59.159
the doctor properly thanks her for all that she's been through

941
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:05.400
during that two-parter, and it shouldn't come as as much of a

942
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:06.659
relief as it does.

943
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:07.320
Yeah.

944
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:11.820
But earlier in the season where he's being alternately sort of

945
00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:17.940
standoffish and showboating, he wouldn't have trusted her in quite

946
00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:21.659
the same way, not because she didn't deserve it, because obviously

947
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:27.179
you know, she saves his life in the 1st episode, but just for that

948
00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:31.260
sort of rather ill considered doctor art to work at all.

949
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:34.559
It does need, I think, to come later in the season.

950
00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:35.519
Yes.

951
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:40.199
I do love it in this one when she, when Billy is confused by the

952
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:43.559
doctor's explanation and Martha just says, oh, just nod when he

953
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:44.400
stops for breath.

954
00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:48.900
In fact, one of the things about Stephen Moffatt is he tends not

955
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:52.380
to participate in any of that sort of stuff and he didn't really

956
00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:56.820
do it in his season 2 episode, like that big kind of towering love

957
00:47:56.820 --> 00:48:00.719
affair that goes all the way through season 2 Moffatt really isn't

958
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:01.559
having a bar of it.

959
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:07.079
And here there's just much more sort of screwball comedy in the

960
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:11.159
way that the 2 of them interact, like the 2 the 2 scenes we get

961
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:11.880
with them together.

962
00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:13.019
Yeah, yeah.

963
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.019
And tenants on fire, he gets some really brilliant dialogue

964
00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:16.260
there.

965
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:17.340
That thing about hens.

966
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.500
I've learned to avoid ends.

967
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:23.519
I think he's just hilarious. funny and kind of horrible.

968
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:26.039
One of the things I'd forgotten.

969
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:28.860
Did he just suggest?

970
00:48:28.860 --> 00:48:32.699
I had to... a quicker you wait and pop subtitles.

971
00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:36.840
I was like, oh, my God, how can I not remember?

972
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:44.099
And in that last scene, I love the fact that it kind of harks back

973
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.199
to just not when he pauses for breath.

974
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:48.539
Martha's the one who has to keep him on task.

975
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:52.320
Well, and Martha's really enjoying travelling with a doctor at

976
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:53.159
this point too.

977
00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:58.079
That wonderful line about going to the moon landing 4 times.

978
00:48:58.139 --> 00:48:59.460
We went 4 times.

979
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:01.739
And I love her delivery.

980
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.039
Whenever she's not being a very good girl who's doing all the

981
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:06.599
emotional labour for everyone else.

982
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:09.900
When she gets to be funny or slightly naughty.

983
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:11.460
She's wonderful at it.

984
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:12.719
She's so terrific.

985
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:16.320
Yeah, and she was happy there, which is like, oh, yeah, so we get

986
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:18.719
to see why you travel with a doctor in one line and here.

987
00:49:18.780 --> 00:49:23.400
This is the reason why 42, not the greatest episode ever, but I

988
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.159
still really love it. because the doctor and Martha and their

989
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:29.820
relationship is perfect in it in every way.

990
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.059
There is no mention of putting Martha down.

991
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:35.579
There is no pining from Martha.

992
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:40.920
There is just this really gorgeous teamworky thing going on with a

993
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:44.039
little bit of snark, and the god, the level of trust is so

994
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:44.400
beautiful.

995
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.000
When Martha gets trapped away in the duda, and the doctor's saying

996
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.420
you know, I will get you and her yelling at him, and it's just, you

997
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:51.900
feel it there.

998
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:53.099
He cares about her.

999
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:57.599
He cares about her in a way that's not then undercut by him being

1000
00:49:57.599 --> 00:49:59.219
a bit of an ass 2 scenes later.

1001
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.920
And then when she tries to save him with the burning thing and

1002
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:02.940
it's like, why?

1003
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.840
I could have had a whole season with this relationship just or

1004
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:08.880
have resolved the thing as you suggested.

1005
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:09.719
That'd be brilliant.

1006
00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:10.860
That's a great solution.

1007
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:12.059
Why didn't they do that?

1008
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:14.400
I mean, it might have been because they didn't want to break up

1009
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:18.599
the pinnacle run of human nature through sound of drums or if

1010
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:21.239
you're being very generous last of the time lords, which I still

1011
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.579
see as peak, peak RTD.

1012
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:25.199
That's the that's the top bit.

1013
00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:28.679
Um, despite, as I said, cutting cutting out the lot of things.

1014
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:30.420
Oh, it's so frustrating.

1015
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:31.500
How dare they?

1016
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:33.119
How dare they felt?

1017
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:34.500
They're completely to my wishes.

1018
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:40.860
See, it's funny with Stephen Moffatt writing this one and, you

1019
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:45.599
know, not presenting that element of the unrequited love element

1020
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:48.239
because I do remember an interview with Stephen Moffatt.

1021
00:50:48.300 --> 00:50:49.800
And I think it was about coupling.

1022
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:53.519
And it was at the time when coupling was being labelled as the UK

1023
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:58.199
version of Friends because it was 3 men and 3 women and, you know

1024
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:00.059
they met in a pub instead of a coffee shop.

1025
00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:03.000
And he responded with the greatest of respect.

1026
00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:06.960
I don't like that comparison because he said at the centre of my

1027
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:07.739
show.

1028
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.800
There is a couple who gets together in episode one and the show is

1029
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:12.480
about their relationship and the people around their

1030
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:12.900
relationship.

1031
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:18.900
Friends seems to be about a will they won't they thing about a

1032
00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:21.539
couple who takes several years to get together and then are on the

1033
00:51:21.539 --> 00:51:24.300
rocks and he's like, I just find that so unrealistic.

1034
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:27.360
I do not think they would have had these feelings for each other

1035
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:30.539
without without the discussion coming up very early on.

1036
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.340
That doesn't happen in real life.

1037
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:34.980
And when that does happen, that's not a healthy situation.

1038
00:51:35.099 --> 00:51:36.420
Yeah, he's absolutely right.

1039
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:41.159
Yeah, and so, I mean, I don't want to put word in words in Stephen

1040
00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:43.440
Moffatt's mouth, but, you know, maybe he was uncomfortable with

1041
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:43.679
that.

1042
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:48.000
Maybe he could, maybe he felt he didn't want to just try and

1043
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.860
address that in 2 scenes of this episode.

1044
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:52.739
But then again, we've just had human nature, which was a

1045
00:51:52.739 --> 00:51:53.460
resolution.

1046
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.199
It goes on, but there's a resolution.

1047
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:59.820
But it does mean that when Larry says in that final scene, look, is

1048
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:01.019
it getting in the way of other things?

1049
00:52:01.139 --> 00:52:05.880
It's a very upfront thing to say, but it's a natural human thing

1050
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.219
to say of, I think no, I think we need to talk about this.

1051
00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.980
We're not we're not just going to sit at each other and make eyes

1052
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:11.579
across the room.

1053
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:12.840
We're 2 adults.

1054
00:52:12.900 --> 00:52:14.519
Let's talk about our feelings kind of thing.

1055
00:52:14.579 --> 00:52:16.139
And everyone in this episode.

1056
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:20.880
All the adults talk about their feelings like Kathy wants to tell

1057
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:23.519
Sally she's had a good life and she's been happy and...

1058
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.260
She wants to tell Larry that she hates him.

1059
00:52:26.820 --> 00:52:32.159
But, you know, it's these 4 adults being faced with the fact that

1060
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:35.099
if they're not honest about their emotions now, like time could

1061
00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:36.659
take away the opportunity, I suppose.

1062
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:07.559
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1063
00:53:07.619 --> 00:53:10.739
We'll be back next week to talk about Russell T. Davey's favourite

1064
00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:13.260
Blake 7 episode, Utopia.

1065
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:17.400
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcast and

1066
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:20.099
you can keep up with us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flights

1067
00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:23.219
through entirety on Facebook and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

1068
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:27.539
You can also find our series 11 flashcast, Jody IntoTara at

1069
00:53:27.539 --> 00:53:31.619
JodyintoTara.com and at Jody IntoTara on Twitter and our James

1070
00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:36.420
Bond Commentary Podcast Bondfinger at bondfinger.com at bondfinger

1071
00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:39.179
on Facebook and at bondfingercast on Twitter.

1072
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:41.280
Liz, where can people find you?

1073
00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:46.139
They can find me at Verge Podcast, which I can only remember for

1074
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:47.639
the Twitter for, Verge Podcast.

1075
00:53:47.699 --> 00:53:48.300
You could Google it.

1076
00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:50.880
Please Google all these things because I don't know the addresses

1077
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.219
or Twitter handles offhand.

1078
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:55.440
And you can find me on Hammerhouse, a podcast.

1079
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:57.420
Um, Verities Doctor Who.

1080
00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:03.000
Hammer is discussing all the Hammer Horror movies from Quick Mass

1081
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:06.179
Experiment through to the Devil Daughter with Paul Cornell.

1082
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:08.639
He's written for Doctor Who.

1083
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:10.980
I am just throwing that out there because, you know, we sometimes

1084
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:12.239
do a Doctor Who jokes.

1085
00:54:12.300 --> 00:54:12.900
Hey, hey.

1086
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:14.880
We try not to very often.

1087
00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:17.699
We try to remember that it's not a Doctor Who podcast.

1088
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.519
Even though Peter Gushing's in a lot of them.

1089
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:24.539
Yeah, we try to do that on Bond Finger as well.

1090
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:26.099
Never works, never ever works.

1091
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:26.820
Yay.

1092
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:27.179
Oh, glad.

1093
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:27.780
Oh, glad never.

1094
00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:28.920
Glad other people have that problem.

1095
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:30.420
All right.

1096
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:34.139
So until next time, may you have more meat cutes in your life than

1097
00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:36.539
Sally Sparrow has in a single episode.

1098
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.000
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1099
00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:39.719
Good night.

1100
00:54:39.780 --> 00:54:40.260
Good night.

1101
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:47.699
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Nathan Bodley, Brendan Jones

1102
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:48.599
and Elizabeth Miles.

1103
00:54:48.659 --> 00:54:51.900
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane or

1104
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:52.260
Berg.

1105
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:55.800
This episode, Flirting Wittily, was recorded on the 25th of August

1106
00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:58.739
2019 and released on the 17th of November.

1107
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:06.719
Don't tell Stephen, Dan, or Colin this, but we've hidden an Easter

1108
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.699
egg in a recent episode of New to Who.

1109
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:12.000
If you play it backwards, you can hear Richard and Todd having a

1110
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:14.579
lively disagreement about German expressionism.

1111
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:22.559
Well, we will talk more about this, I think, probably in our last

1112
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:27.960
of the Time Lords episode, because I feel strongly that Martha

1113
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:32.760
gets the chance to come and critique the way that she's been

1114
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:33.420
treated.

1115
00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:37.800
Like, she doesn't just sort of slink off into the night or

1116
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:38.280
anything.

1117
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:42.300
And it's that moment in the episode where she comes back into the

1118
00:55:42.300 --> 00:55:43.019
Tartars.

1119
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:44.760
And she tells him.

1120
00:55:44.820 --> 00:55:45.179
Yeah.

1121
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:45.719
Yeah.

1122
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:46.260
Yeah.

1123
00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.440
Yeah. still annoyed about it.

1124
00:55:49.500 --> 00:55:51.480
But yes, I'm glad she came back in and said that.

1125
00:55:51.539 --> 00:55:57.300
And I know that there are other fans with what I can, it's, God, a

1126
00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:01.980
perfectly reasonable perspective of they found that moment very

1127
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:04.500
empowering and that moment really spoke to them and how they felt

1128
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:09.420
and the sense of them being stuck in bad relationships and having

1129
00:56:09.420 --> 00:56:12.179
the strength to say what you felt and to walk away from it and

1130
00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:13.079
that really matters to them.

1131
00:56:13.139 --> 00:56:15.960
But obviously there's not my perspective.

1132
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:16.800
That's not what I want.

1133
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:19.559
I want my identification figure to be treated with love and joy.

1134
00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:23.940
But, you know, that's a perfectly a valid way of looking at it

1135
00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:24.179
too.

1136
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:29.460
It's just, um, it's just not pandering to my preferences, um, which

1137
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:30.179
means it's bad.

1138
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.119
No, no, that's how Doctor Who works.

1139
00:56:33.179 --> 00:56:34.320
Yes, yeah.

1140
00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.800
If it's not for me, then it's not for the fans.

1141
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:39.059
So it's not good.

1142
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:39.719
Yeah.

1143
00:56:39.780 --> 00:56:43.559
I am the representative of the majority of fandom, so damn well

1144
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:44.460
better people I want.

1145
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:47.880
But I actually had a point I was going to hear and I've completely

1146
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:48.840
forgotten what it is.

1147
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:51.000
So I shall I shall end it there.

1148
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:56.219
My continuing ranting at that, why is Martha not treated properly

1149
00:56:56.219 --> 00:56:56.760
by the doctor?

1150
00:56:56.820 --> 00:56:58.320
So cruel.

1151
00:56:58.380 --> 00:56:59.280
Cruel and harsh.

1152
00:56:59.340 --> 00:57:00.119
I have feelings.

1153
00:57:00.780 --> 00:57:02.400
Brilliant.

1154
00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:03.900
I'm sorry.

1155
00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:04.679
I'm sorry.

1156
00:57:04.739 --> 00:57:06.539
No, that's good.

1157
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.659
Particularly since, you know, you're here for one episode of the

1158
00:57:09.659 --> 00:57:12.780
season and the more people that we can hear about this because

1159
00:57:12.780 --> 00:57:13.800
it's super problematic.

1160
00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:15.420
I think it is super problematic.

1161
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:21.000
Do you want a crappy relationship to be the lens through which

1162
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:23.099
like the 2 main characters in the show?

1163
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:24.420
Do you know what I mean?

1164
00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:29.699
And the thing is, it's depending on your perspective and who you

1165
00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:32.219
are as a viewer, it can jump the other way as well.

1166
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:34.800
Instead of being like me and like, why are you being so awful to

1167
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:37.199
the person that I really like and judging the doctor.

1168
00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:40.679
And this is why I often don't enjoy the 10th doctor because I'm so

1169
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:43.739
often reminded of, you are mean to someone I like.

1170
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:46.980
Um, you can jump the other way where you're more attached to the

1171
00:57:46.980 --> 00:57:50.039
10th doctor and are like, I don't like this pining person who's

1172
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:53.940
come along and is pining all the time and they should just get

1173
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:59.280
over it, which, um, yeah, which makes them dislike Martha, for

1174
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:02.280
terrible reasons, because obviously the doctor is in the wrong, but

1175
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:06.119
still, it's, um, it's, it's, it's not good either way, and I don't

1176
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:07.079
I don't, I, yeah.

1177
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:11.940
I really, I really am just very upset. that I'm still upset about

1178
00:58:11.940 --> 00:58:13.019
it this much.

1179
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.900
It's like, I keep them suppressed these feelings.

1180
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:19.500
I mean, I think you're absolutely right.

1181
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:23.940
And I think it's part of the reason that the 10th doctor and Donna

1182
00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:25.260
works so well together.

1183
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:31.019
Not just because I think the scripts are very good next year, but

1184
00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:35.099
you know, in David Tennant's 1st season, the Doctor and Rose's

1185
00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:39.840
relationship is deliberately written as uncomfortable for a

1186
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:40.199
viewer.

1187
00:58:40.260 --> 00:58:42.840
You know, we're meant to find them a bit arrogant and a bit

1188
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:43.260
cocky.

1189
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:43.860
Yeah.

1190
00:58:43.860 --> 00:58:47.820
And then this relationship is written in the way, the way you've

1191
00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:52.679
just described as well, which is a bit a bit, it's a bit tough to

1192
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:52.980
watch.

1193
00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:56.940
And then you get Catherine Tate coming along and there's the

1194
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:59.639
mission statement right up front that...

1195
00:58:59.699 --> 00:59:01.139
We're not doing any of that stuff.

1196
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:02.460
Yeah, we're not doing any of that.

1197
00:59:03.179 --> 00:59:06.659
I don't think he's ever said it, but I think there was an

1198
00:59:06.659 --> 00:59:11.760
understanding during the making of season 3 series 3 that they've

1199
00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:13.320
taken this in the wrong...

1200
00:59:13.380 --> 00:59:16.679
Not even, I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with

1201
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:21.480
the idea, but just the execution and the way they've done it and

1202
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:22.679
the pacing of it.

1203
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:24.179
It just goes wrong.

1204
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:24.960
Yeah.

1205
00:59:26.219 --> 00:59:29.400
But then by the time season 4 comes around, it's too late.

1206
00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:32.400
I will forgive you 10th doctor.

1207
00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:36.059
You're stuck in the judgy pale forever.

1208
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:41.280
And then the episode that's meant to be Martha in space just

1209
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:45.780
becomes about, you know, Freema Adjumen having to crawl around in

1210
00:59:45.780 --> 00:59:48.360
a muddy pit while Catherine Tate figures out some dates.

1211
00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:50.519
And a fish drown.

1212
00:59:50.579 --> 00:59:52.320
And the pounders, the fish drowns.

1213
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:54.840
I don't know.

1214
00:59:54.900 --> 00:59:56.519
I haven't seen it for so long.

1215
00:59:57.000 --> 00:59:59.699
Is that good or not still?

1216
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:01.739
I mean, like, see, Galaxy Prio again?

1217
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:02.519
That's nice.

1218
01:00:02.579 --> 01:00:04.739
And there's a really cute woman where they sort of surround her

1219
01:00:04.739 --> 01:00:08.760
and like poke her curiously, as an expression on her face is just

1220
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:09.300
adorable.

1221
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:13.800
Um, but yeah, that was uh, I love her turning torchwood, though

1222
01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:14.579
really enjoyed that.

1223
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:18.360
And the way that Captain Jack was like, the way Captain Jack and

1224
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:21.179
Martha were, that's more what I wanted.

1225
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:23.940
Their relationship in torture was perfect.

1226
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:27.480
This suddenly made me...

1227
01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:29.519
She really elevated torchwood for me.

1228
01:00:29.579 --> 01:00:31.139
So much so.

1229
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:32.699
I didn't finish season one of Torture.

1230
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:35.639
I started again with season 2 and I just stopped watching after

1231
01:00:35.639 --> 01:00:36.420
Martha left.

1232
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:40.800
Like I watched one episode after she left and just went, And then

1233
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:43.260
I did watch Children of Earth, but yeah, that's it.

1234
01:00:43.860 --> 01:00:47.099
Yeah, you made a wise decision.

1235
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:52.139
But yeah, she really brought a missing heart to the series.

1236
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:55.260
Yeah, everyone sort of hates each other.

1237
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:58.559
She really felt like she fitted in as well, surprisingly well.

1238
01:00:58.619 --> 01:01:00.840
And I think it really...

1239
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:04.679
And the vibe between her and Jack was just, 0 man, it was so

1240
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:05.280
relaxing.

1241
01:01:05.340 --> 01:01:07.619
It was just so gorgeous to have a character I love in an

1242
01:01:07.619 --> 01:01:10.920
environment where she was being treated with the respect that she

1243
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:11.400
deserved.

1244
01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:15.300
And yeah, I like to relax watching television shows.

1245
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:16.619
I don't like to feel tenseisted.

1246
01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:19.380
Whereas the next thing coming from that will hurt someone.

1247
01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:23.039
At this point, James would come in and say, when are we doing the

1248
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:23.940
torchwood podcast?

1249
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:24.659
Yes.

1250
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.719
Well, the thing is, we did the Torchwood podcast, but then we

1251
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:28.440
reconned him.

1252
01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:30.000
Okay, again, I remember it.

1253
01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:30.780
No, that's right.

1254
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:32.400
All right.

1255
01:01:32.460 --> 01:01:37.559
So I will do our closing thing and I will stop midway through it

1256
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:39.000
at some point to swear.

1257
01:01:42.059 --> 01:01:42.960
Okay.

1258
01:01:43.019 --> 01:01:45.239
Well, you're prepping that, something.

1259
01:01:45.300 --> 01:01:49.019
We we, um, Liz, we recorded the Lazarus experiment earlier this

1260
01:01:49.019 --> 01:01:49.500
evening.

1261
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:56.159
And I've just realised that this season has the 1st 2 parter by

1262
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:59.099
Helen Rainer, followed by a script by Stephen Greenhorn, neither

1263
01:01:59.099 --> 01:02:02.460
of which are very fondly remembered, and then next season has the

1264
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:05.159
1st 2 parter written by Helen Rainer, followed by a script by

1265
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:07.139
Stephen Greenhorn, neither of which are fondly remembered.

1266
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:08.099
What's greenhorns?

1267
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:09.300
The doctor's daughter.

1268
01:02:09.420 --> 01:02:12.300
Yeah, where the fish trap.

1269
01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:20.280
Fish traps. is bloody amazing in that scene, my dear, but the fish

1270
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:20.820
drowns.

1271
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:26.880
I know, but like she's having to do acting. opposite the fish. so

1272
01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:29.699
bad In a dirty, smelly, muddy quarry.

1273
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:33.659
We'll give David and Catherine some, we'll give them the things to

1274
01:02:33.659 --> 01:02:35.639
do, the Doctor Who things.

1275
01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:39.000
I want you to moan at a drowned fish.

1276
01:02:39.059 --> 01:02:40.199
Well, that's the thing.

1277
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:43.500
Russell T. Gap is in the writer's tale when he's planning this.

1278
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:46.380
He's like, this is going to be the Martha in, but this is going to

1279
01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:47.460
be the Martha in Space Story.

1280
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:50.699
Like I've promised Freema a lost in space thing where, you know

1281
01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:54.059
Martha has to be really reliable and the doctor and Donna have to

1282
01:02:54.059 --> 01:02:59.639
get her back and then 2 weeks later he says to he says to Ben Cook

1283
01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:02.820
oh no, I thought of the words the doctor's daughter and now we

1284
01:03:02.820 --> 01:03:03.239
have to do it.

1285
01:03:03.300 --> 01:03:05.760
And the only slot we've got is Martha in space, so I have to put

1286
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:06.420
them together.

1287
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:07.800
Freema, I'm so sorry.

1288
01:03:07.860 --> 01:03:09.119
Oh my god.

1289
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:11.519
That's appalling.

1290
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:15.719
It's like, yeah, yeah, Russell, you're not too sorry to put

1291
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:17.159
midnight on the shelf, are you?

1292
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.679
That was very good though.

1293
01:03:19.739 --> 01:03:21.360
Yes, that's true.

1294
01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:22.199
Okay.

1295
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.960
I was just about to read the intro again.

1296
01:03:25.019 --> 01:03:25.860
That's not do that.

1297
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:26.579
Okay.

1298
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:30.960
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.