WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 12:59:28

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety

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Chan, the only Doctor Who podcast with Perfect Malcasarian manners

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though.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Adam.

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Chan and I'm a self-secreting double malted Frappuccino for this

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one, dough.

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Well, the stars have gone out.

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The galaxies have collapsed in humanity's only hope lies, as

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always, with Derek Jacoby.

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Will we go gentle into that good night, or will we find a way to

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reach utopia?

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It's amazing what you can double bank, isn't it?

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Because this, I, well, I don't think I'm being too controversial

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to say, is marvellous and visually great and a wonderful script

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and was double banked with 42.

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Ah, which, as we heard a few weeks ago.

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I enjoyed a great deal better than a lot of the other everyone

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else. in like 42 because it's very straightforward.

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That's one of my issues with everything since the reboot is the

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self-knowingness of them all.

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Like, that's my, that's one of the only problems I have with

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utopia is that, and it's with, you know, I think most of the Davis

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and and Moffat era is there's a moment where they're running and

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it's like, oh, I've missed this.

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It's like, don't draw attention to the boring bits.

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Like, no one runs for because they're enjoying it.

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You're running away from monster people.

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He's had a whole season of torture, though, you see, I think

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probably what he's missing.

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Yeah, just being in a cave, being depressed.

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Having to put up with Bern Gorman's grimacing.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Dodging the payloads from Mefanwi, the pterodactyl.

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But I think I think you're right, Brendan, in that, it does look

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amazing and it is, you know, Graham Harper again.

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How is he double banking it?

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Is he in 2 places at once?

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I believe they shot a little bit of stuff for 42.

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Then shot most of Utopia, then shot most of 42 and then...

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So they were just all in the same silo.

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Yeah, yeah, kind of thing.

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They could have shut a, like, because everyone, like, there's that

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very long scene where they're talking to John Barrowman through a

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door, and so that could all be done.

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Well, we're off making 42, yeah. tenants off yelling through

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another door.

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Well, Freeman's stuck in another door.

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There's a lot of looking through portholes.

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And the thing is, there's a lot of times where you have a close-up

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of someone's hands on a control.

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Oh, yeah.

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It is actually at the location for 42 because it was that old sort

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of factory works thing, particularly any close-up of freema.

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Any close-up of Martha's hand.

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He's a hand double because Freema was off shooting actual dialogue

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and things.

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Wow, they're so clever, aren't they?

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That's a 2nd ID who is insanely doing scheduling.

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That's hard work.

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Maybe the 3rd AD. I can't remember who does the schedule.

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But I used to hate them.

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I'd always be bringing them going, I have to go to work.

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I've gotta go to the radio.

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What are you doing, putting me on at this hour?

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I suppose we have to talk about the episode.

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I thought we were doing quite well.

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We don't have to.

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Do we talk about how none of the story makes any sense?

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Well, this is Doctor Who.

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I think we more or less kind of resigned to that.

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But like it feels like it's trying to do so many things with the

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stories that have come before that are leading up to it and the

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stories that it's about to spin off into, that this one in itself

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goes.

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Look, we're just going tread water for a little minute.

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This is why I stopped playing with my action figures.

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This is the entire dramatist person that you're talking about, the

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entire drama talking of this episode because they all stand about

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and it's a polished balloon.

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It looks gorgeous, but they just end up doing my dinner with Andre

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addressing each other in a circle. and yeah, look, I think there's

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the thing, it's actually a pyramid, isn't it?

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You've got Saint Derek Jacoby in the puffy pirate shirt and just

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oh, he's emoting now, so if you'll just stand back and admire it

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hearing the drums.

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He's hearing the drums.

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No one breathes for the entire week shoots.

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It all purple face.

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Jack wasn't acting.

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It was not apoplexy.

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Oh, I'm on the set with Dame Derek.

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But he had played the master before, had he not?

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Derek Checkerby in the cartoon.

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Yeah, in Scream of the Shark, which we never covered.

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Oh, we should do it now.

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Yeah.

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It's about all that buying a friend of the podcast, Paul Cornell

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so it's very good.

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It is very good.

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I would say Richard E. Grant has never heard of Doctor Who despite

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having been in it.

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Has no interest in it.

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And again, and it shows.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But everyone else is very good.

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I kind of like his disaffected.

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I really don't care what's going on performance, even as the great

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intelligence.

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It's like, yeah, I don't really care.

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It makes him more menacing.

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It reminds me of when I used to be obsessed with, if you're a

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terrible actor, You're very good at playing a villain because you

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can seem completely emotionless about things that you should have

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some kind of inkling about, which is why Heather Locklear was so

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good in Melrose Plan.

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But it's true.

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It's like really, like anyone who doesn't care about what they're

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doing.

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Heather bloody long.

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Heather Locklear.

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She has no idea.

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I have distinct memories of watching this.

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I watched it in Cardiff.

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Oh, wow.

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I was in, I went on holidays from a radio job and took myself off

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to Carter for a Doctor Who holiday and I got a Dalek in my hotel

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room.

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It was some special deal.

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It's like a remote control one.

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It's the Death to the Daleks one.

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Oh, right.

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It's awesome.

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And so, yeah, I was sitting there on the Saturday night going, oh

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my God, I'm finally going to see Doctor Who when it goes out.

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Like, because it was, you know, a couple of years before Ivy

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started doing that.

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I was like, 0 my god, I'm in.

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I'm in Cardiff.

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I watching Doctor Who.

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And I had suspected that Jacoby might be playing the master, but

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the way they kind of tease it down in the episode, I was like, is

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it going to be a future doctor?

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Yeah.

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Is it the valleyard or something?

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Puffy sleeves, yeah.

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Yeah, he sort of dresses like a classic series.

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Yes.

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He has the voice and the slightly camp.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think that I had been unable to avoid spoilers.

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So I was pretty sure that he was going to be the master.

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Yeah, with fans.

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But I remember watching it as well at the time.

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And for me, the big shock wasn't the master thing so much as the

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way that it ends up tying into what's been going on.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And I do think that one of the genius things about series 3 is

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that the arc is so simple, and it is just that the villain in

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episode 11 steals the TARDIS and travels back in time to kind of

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the beginning of series 2.

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And that's why he's been appearing ever since what Love and

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Monsters is our 1st reference to Harold Saxon.

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And I think the simplicity of that is really good.

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I also think that this does an amazing job of bringing a whole

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sort of heap of stuff in from earlier on in the season and

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things.

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And we talked in our human nature episode about the decision that

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Russell made to turn the cricket ball thing from the novel of

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human nature.

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Yeah, and that was a big surprise as well.

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And I love that moment.

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You know, we've talked a lot about David Tennant's acting, but I

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do really like that moment where he, you know, is kind of stunned

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and trying to deny that it's actually happening.

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And then he's shouting at Martha, you know, has he noticed it?

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Has he noticed it now?

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I think all of that sort of stuff is pretty good.

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And I'm actually on board for occasional Doctor Who story that is

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a little bit less of an adventure in itself.

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Oh, look, I love a base under siege. my favourite ones.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But I mean, this is as thin as possible, isn't it?

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I mean, it is super thin.

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But you know, for me, it's all kind of atmosphere. and then

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setting up for the 2 part finale.

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Now, I don't want to derail anything that you're going to be

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talking about in the next few weeks.

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But I believe still to this day that Davis had the finale of this

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in mind for Rose.

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Oh, because we're meant to be caring about these people who have

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been debased, like Martha's family, and we've barely gotten to

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know them.

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But if they were people we'd been with for the last 3 years, you'd

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be like, oh, how awful, how, you know, I don't want to see Jackie

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in that position.

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That's just the worst thing.

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Also, Jackie betraying Rose would have been much more powerful.

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You are so spot on with this because we forget what a dark little

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bugger how Russell can actually be.

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He loves doing horrible, horrible things to people he's creative.

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And also, like, it makes more sense for Rose to spend a year

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walking around the planet whispering the doctor's name.

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Instead of, instead of Martha, who really is just a bit jacked off

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because old mate was blonde.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think that, as well, you've got that, the hubris thing in series

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two, you know, that the doctor and Rose are sort of massively

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unlikeable, and you're waiting for the other shooter drop.

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And it sort of, I guess, drops in doomsday, but it's clear, I

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think, that he had more in mind.

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Yeah, it was kind of just blindsided by Billy's departure, I think

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and had to change it.

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I, yeah, I had never considered it, but I think you're really onto

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something.

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And this is the other shoe dropping for me because the face of

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Bo's message, you are not alone, was written for the end of New

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Earth. with a view to it paying off at the end of that series and

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then he pushed it back a year.

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So, yeah, I hadn't I had never considered that.

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Yeah, it just, there's, because when, you know, you see all of

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Martha's family and I was like, I don't really care that they've

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been turned into hideous monsters.

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Like, it's, you know, I don't like, let them clean the tables.

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Except I actually really love Francine.

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And I'm a massive fan of all 3 RTD mums.

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And my my dream convention is mom con.

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With all 3 of them.

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I, I once got an audiobook just because, uh, Joe, and I was

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reading it.

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She has the most beautiful, mellifluous voice.

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Like it is spectacular.

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And it is, it was a terrible book.

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It was one of those, you know, the African crime stories. detective

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ladies detective agencies.

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Number one ladies detectivate. reads those.

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Right.

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Oh, cool.

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Yeah, well, we'll see more of her next week, but I think that I

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think that does that sounds right, doesn't it?

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Like just from a, like from my, from my own writing, like I'm like

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ah, because this is, this is one thing that you kind of forget

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about TV production is that there are so many things that, that a

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writer has to just take on board.

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Like, you know, everyone complains about the last season of Game

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of Thrones.

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And everyone's like, well, they should they should do it with

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competent writers, like, these writers are very competent, but

251
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:51.240
they had the option of playing that story out over another 7

252
00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.019
seasons with different actors because Leonard Hetty was being paid

253
00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:57.480
a 1000000 and a half dollars to sit in a window, drink a glass of

254
00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:57.840
wine.

255
00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:01.679
Or you try and tie it all up while you can still afford these

256
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.220
people who are quite becoming more and more expensive.

257
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.519
I mean, I think that that's what makes serialised television so

258
00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:12.419
interesting because things are being thrown at the people who are

259
00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:14.879
riding and they're having to deal with production things.

260
00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:16.259
Oh, family tree.

261
00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:20.820
Yeah, and through this dreary problem.

262
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.100
Enterprise season 4, isn't it?

263
00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:27.360
But if you get the fans on board, I really did like that thing.

264
00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:30.000
It's one of the few bits of trick I actually liked because, oh

265
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.740
look, saliency and interlinking and plots and puzzles that ROCD

266
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:38.039
ish fan boy brains can follow and make fun with.

267
00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:44.940
And maybe in a way, Martha is designed to kind of fit that role in

268
00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.399
a different way because we've seen Martha.

269
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:53.159
In human nature, you know, spend a few months, um, serving the

270
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.620
doctor or helping him out or whatever.

271
00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.139
And so the idea that she would do that.

272
00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.480
And Martha has been set up as someone who is selfless and who

273
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:04.980
really loves her family.

274
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.059
And so he kind of shorthands all of that stuff to still kind of

275
00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:11.039
make it work, I think.

276
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:12.659
There is...

277
00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:14.639
I mean, we're talking about everything but utopia.

278
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:19.679
It is very problematic, the fact that the only black family he has

279
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.080
he puts all of them in servant positions.

280
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:25.080
I was just going to say...

281
00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:29.100
I would pay rubies and tips to have Francine as my waitress

282
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:32.100
because that would be Algonkin level, bitch.

283
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.559
She's out the back spitting in your food.

284
00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:36.419
Oh, yeah, no, she exactly.

285
00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:37.919
Nothing so prosaic.

286
00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:41.820
No, no, no, the poison would be very slow accent.

287
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:43.080
Very slow.

288
00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:45.960
Yeah, you would feel it only after your bank accounts had been

289
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:47.100
completely drowned.

290
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:48.179
I had draw her.

291
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:49.259
But yes, it's the big thing.

292
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:51.720
Because Russell is John Cimbwall in this case.

293
00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:54.779
He's, I think, in these nicest aspect.

294
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:56.100
He's Jacobi.

295
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.460
Have you heard Jacobi on the big finishes, by the way?

296
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:00.059
Yes.

297
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.860
Oh my god, the one, the master of...

298
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:05.279
Yes.

299
00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:08.700
Oh, that is probably the best thing, big finish. in about 5

300
00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:09.120
years.

301
00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:09.480
Thank you.

302
00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:11.340
And so is he playing Jana in that?

303
00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.059
No, he plays, like, it's, it doesn't quite make sense.

304
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.480
Look, it's very silly, but he's he's the war master.

305
00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:22.320
Basically, he's the master before he gets turned back into a

306
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:22.500
baby.

307
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:23.580
Right, okay.

308
00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:24.480
Okay.

309
00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:30.840
And he's malevolent and he's awful and he hates people and he's

310
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.000
manipulative and it's amazing.

311
00:15:33.059 --> 00:15:34.019
He's Russell.

312
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.220
He's Russell's Jungian Shadow.

313
00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.279
I think everything that Russell wants to do as in really what you

314
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.759
said about Martha's family, which is just no one will do it.

315
00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:46.559
I mean, Russell would be looking at Wing Chang.

316
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.539
I will just list appalling thing anyone could have ever done in a

317
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:49.139
Welsh accent.

318
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.840
And he'd be, you know, it's always this is really terrible, but

319
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:53.519
underneath he's going, oh, that's so evil.

320
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.279
Well, and Russell's naughty.

321
00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:57.120
I mean, look at this.

322
00:15:57.179 --> 00:16:00.720
You know, you have a setup here, utopia, which is kind of really

323
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.320
resonant and sort of, we talked about this in gridlock, where it

324
00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.019
creates a world that doesn't really work on its own terms, but the

325
00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:09.720
sort of comments on the human condition, you know, that you've got

326
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:15.539
people living their lives, sort of creating a community, suffering

327
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:18.360
you know, there's a material reality around that sort of refugee

328
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.179
camp thing, even though it's just in sort of some corridor in a

329
00:16:21.179 --> 00:16:21.960
glass section.

330
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:25.259
And it looks like it's been entirely made out of leftover sets

331
00:16:25.259 --> 00:16:26.220
from some blitz drama.

332
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:26.940
Yeah, yeah.

333
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.879
Well, I love the mid-20th century look of everyone's clothes.

334
00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:31.679
Yeah, it's nearly terrific.

335
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.740
And, you know, the doctor says, you always come back to their So

336
00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:37.799
it's like, you know, we have nothing, but we're going to make sure

337
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:39.120
it's the aesthetic we like.

338
00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:42.299
It is weird, though, because it does, like, they've gone.

339
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:46.860
Okay, it's what says refugees to us in the war, in the tube.

340
00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:49.379
Yeah, yeah, waiting for the bombs to drop.

341
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:50.039
There we go.

342
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:50.940
That's the look we're going.

343
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.740
I think that's perfectly reasonable.

344
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.620
I mean, they could have all been wearing sort of glittering space

345
00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:58.500
outfits or something, which would have been very bad.

346
00:16:58.559 --> 00:16:59.519
Oh, wouldn't it have been wonderful?

347
00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:02.159
Oh, Garrow beam.

348
00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:05.759
In his Davros wheelchair. the end.

349
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:09.779
But and then you've got them searching for utopia.

350
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.759
You know, they know that they're all about to die.

351
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.400
They know that they're all mortal and they're trying to find some

352
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.539
mythical way out of it.

353
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.259
And, you know, the doctor's wandering through the refugee camp

354
00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:22.019
going on about how indomitable they all are, you know, borrowing

355
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:23.339
Tom's lines.

356
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.579
But what he's going to do to those people next week.

357
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:27.420
Oh, yeah.

358
00:17:27.420 --> 00:17:31.980
You know, like it is so bleak and so brutal.

359
00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:35.339
And that's what Russell always does, you know, on the, you know, on

360
00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:38.279
confidential and on the commentaries, everything's lovely and

361
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.920
marvellous and, you know, isn't it great and wonderful?

362
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:47.579
But he's so cynical and kind of so horrible and I really like

363
00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:47.700
that.

364
00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:50.880
We've had years and years of it.

365
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:51.599
Yeah.

366
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.740
The fact that, you know, he gives you a character as delightful as

367
00:17:55.740 --> 00:18:00.059
Chen, though, who is, you know, you love just because she's forced

368
00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:03.900
to do this weird way of speaking, which she says is polite.

369
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.779
And the joy she takes in not doing it.

370
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:08.279
And you're like, oh, she's great.

371
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:09.299
Oh, she's dead.

372
00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:16.799
But even doing it with Yana as well, who has, he's got a couple of

373
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.799
really beautiful speeches, and there is that, the one where he's

374
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.559
tearing up and saying, you know, there were stories of time travel

375
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.819
in the old days and stuff, or when he's doing the exposition thing

376
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:31.259
about what utopia is, and it's, you know, it's the Derek Jacoby

377
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:32.579
voice and all of that.

378
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:35.160
And the doctor really likes him.

379
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:36.059
He's really smart.

380
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.779
He's he is like a version of the doctor.

381
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:41.940
And so we like him as well.

382
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:46.019
And so turning him into the master too, is, again, just a sort of

383
00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:46.680
bit of a gut.

384
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:50.400
There are so many like, there are so many great moments in this

385
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:55.200
show that the rest of the story is looking to accommodate.

386
00:18:55.259 --> 00:18:56.880
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

387
00:18:56.940 --> 00:19:00.059
Like the scene with Captain Jack and, you know, not turning into

388
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:01.859
ash, like the poor man in the spacesuit.

389
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:02.759
Yeah, yeah.

390
00:19:02.819 --> 00:19:04.500
Like that is a great scene.

391
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.759
Like they playing off each other amazingly well and it is and it's

392
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.339
one of those scenes where you're like, oh, I feel like that's the

393
00:19:11.339 --> 00:19:11.940
script.

394
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:13.980
Oh, no, no, this master thing is the script.

395
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:18.420
And it's almost like everything else has been just sort of weirdly

396
00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:19.440
stitched on.

397
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:21.119
It reminds future kind.

398
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:25.319
Well, they wandered in from the, wandered in from the planet

399
00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.900
Cephlon or whatever. or something.

400
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.279
It reminds me a little bit of, you know, Grim Wade's things like

401
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:36.779
Mordred on Dead or Planet of Fire in particular, which has really

402
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:39.059
kind of not much plot.

403
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.720
Yeah, there's nothing.

404
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.200
But it's all about Turlow and Chameleon and the master and getting

405
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.579
all of the characters where they need to be in order for Caves of

406
00:19:47.579 --> 00:19:48.539
Andrazani to happen.

407
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:52.380
And, you know, I think I would like Doctor Who to be occasionally

408
00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:53.160
a little bit more like that.

409
00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:57.720
I'm kind of, you know, over just series of self-contained

410
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.519
adventures that don't kind of, I like a self-contained adventure.

411
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.779
I was more tired of this kind of thing by the time we got to the

412
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:07.740
end of the Moffat era.

413
00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:10.259
Like, it was great when Davis was doing it because he would just

414
00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:10.980
pepper it through.

415
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.799
He'd have like, here's an individual adventure.

416
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:18.539
Like this episode, you know, can stand vaguely alone without all

417
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:19.500
the ongoing stuff.

418
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:23.940
But, you know, the, it's just, you know, towards the end of the

419
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:28.680
Moffat era, it was like the, the adventure seemed to be, you never

420
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:29.279
they never finished.

421
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:32.519
Like they kind of gone halfway through and it's like, oh, now

422
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.940
we're going on to the continuing story that's been going on for

423
00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:39.660
the last 4 episodes and we, I'm not going to explain how I got out

424
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:40.680
of that. why not?

425
00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:41.819
Oh, just because that's what I do.

426
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:49.259
But yeah, I kind of, I personally have been enjoying a story that

427
00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:49.859
finishes.

428
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.339
See, the structure of this one and the next 2 episodes coming up

429
00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:58.920
remind me of the Seeds of Doom.

430
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.599
Because you've got those 1st 2 episodes in Antarctica, which just

431
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:05.940
exists to show you how dangerous the monster is.

432
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:06.599
Yeah.

433
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:13.140
And what this episode does is it tells you that the master could

434
00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:15.180
be like the doctor if he wasn't evil.

435
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.539
You know, it's shorthand for that, but it also tells the younger

436
00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:23.700
audience where Captain Jack has been because Barriman really

437
00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:27.539
stressed at the time in interviews, he said, no, we explained

438
00:21:27.539 --> 00:21:30.839
where Jack's been, you don't have to go watch Torchwood, and if

439
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:33.779
and he's like, if you are a child, don't don't watch me and talk

440
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:34.259
to it.

441
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:38.279
And Barriman has always said Captain Jack is a different character

442
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.319
in Doctor Who than he is in Torture.

443
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.460
He like, I play him differently.

444
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.400
I put a different emphasis on because Doctor Who's for Children

445
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.339
Torchwood is for horny 15 year olds.

446
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.140
Sorry, adults.

447
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.400
That, that, that old.

448
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.339
He came and went.

449
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:58.319
You know, I actually remember being relieved when Jack turned up

450
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:03.480
in this and how lovely and fun he was because he just wasn't that

451
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:05.099
at all in Torchwood.

452
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:06.059
To be all feel the same way.

453
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:07.740
I only like Barrowman in doctor.

454
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.220
Yeah, and and all of those things, you know, what's, we forget

455
00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:14.519
that this actually clears up some of the things, the questions

456
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.039
about Jack raised in Tortwood series.

457
00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:18.420
Like, how did he even get there?

458
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.059
How come we have flashbacks to him in World War one?

459
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:21.960
How did that even happen?

460
00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:24.779
And it just explains it in a couple of throwaway lines.

461
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:25.740
It absolutely doesn't matter.

462
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.680
And then we get on with some running around and, you know, teeth

463
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:30.599
and having an adventure and stuff.

464
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:36.000
Also, the other thing about Captain Jack turning up is that, I

465
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.640
mean, they still try and shoehorn it in, but this ongoing

466
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:44.460
narrative of Martha feeling 2nd best to Rose, which sometimes I

467
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:47.579
feel like her character was written just to be her entire

468
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:49.019
character is not Rose.

469
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:51.960
Like there's nothing else to her, but not Rose.

470
00:22:52.019 --> 00:22:54.420
And it's frustrating.

471
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.940
It must have been frustrating for Freeman, the actor, because it's

472
00:22:56.940 --> 00:22:58.619
like, well, what am I, what am I playing?

473
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.160
I'm just playing someone who's, yeah, the underheader Locklear?

474
00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:05.700
Whoever whoever's in the mean cast cast right at the bottom just

475
00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:06.599
looking up at all the pink.

476
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:07.200
Yeah.

477
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:13.319
Yeah, like it, I hate it when, not just characters, but people in

478
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:16.559
life define themselves by what they're, what they're not or what

479
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:17.400
they don't like.

480
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:18.599
Because I do stuff for YouTube.

481
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:20.220
I don't do nearly enough stuff for YouTube.

482
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.500
No, you probably do too much.

483
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:25.559
But this is the thing.

484
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:28.559
The most viewed Doctor Who videos are the things that are like, you

485
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.339
know, Jodie Whitaker murdered my childhood.

486
00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:32.700
Oh, man.

487
00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:34.920
And they keep turning up and I'm like, I don't want to watch

488
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:35.160
these.

489
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:37.319
Why does YouTube think I care about this?

490
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:39.960
Yeah, and it's like, one day I was curious.

491
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:43.019
And I clicked through to one of these channels and thought, have

492
00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:45.059
you put up a single video about something you like?

493
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:45.960
No.

494
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.380
No.

495
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.900
No, it's all about something you don't like.

496
00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:52.380
You can't create something from a negative.

497
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:53.099
Yeah, yeah.

498
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.799
And Liz Miles was talking about this last week.

499
00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:58.259
It's like Martha has her own character, but it's constantly buried

500
00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:00.119
under this, not Rose.

501
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:02.700
Yeah, I think I think they're walking it back here a little bit

502
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:08.279
too, because they they give her, you know, like, like I think that

503
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.880
Freeman does the sort of sassy, exasperated comedy thing quite

504
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:12.119
well.

505
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:15.900
And so her reaction to discovering that Rose was blonde, you know

506
00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:16.500
that's kind of funny.

507
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:22.140
And and making Jack have the same experience with the doctor as

508
00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:22.500
she has.

509
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.259
So you are in love with him as well.

510
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.819
And I think that sort of makes it more fun and takes the sting out

511
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:30.900
of it a little bit.

512
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.799
But also, Martha, it works brilliantly when she's not with the

513
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:34.980
doctor.

514
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.460
Like when she's with Shakespeare, when she's with Chanto.

515
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:39.779
Like, these are great moments.

516
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.119
And I know...

517
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:42.839
Yes, from him.

518
00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:45.539
Yes, like when and when she's, you know, being shut off into the

519
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:45.779
sun.

520
00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:51.960
Like, she's great without the doctor, but when she's, I don't know

521
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.920
if it was a thing with her and tenant, or it was just Davis unable

522
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:00.599
to write those as a, as a pairing, which he got so right with uh

523
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:02.460
Catherine Tate's Donna.

524
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:07.019
But it was just, yeah, the unrequited love is just boring and

525
00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:07.500
annoying.

526
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:12.000
And it's one of the reasons I don't like Charlie in the in the

527
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:12.539
finish.

528
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:14.099
Because I'm like, just get over it.

529
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:16.680
Like, he's right there. either make a move or get out.

530
00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:20.400
But yeah, it is it is frustrating because she is a great character

531
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:24.720
and she's a great actor and she has great moments, but as soon as

532
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:28.140
you stick her next attendant, it's she becomes like part of the

533
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:28.680
wallpaper.

534
00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:41.279
I think that's why we've felt, what is the right term?

535
00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:43.619
I'm not going to even throw a value judgement into it, but why we

536
00:25:43.619 --> 00:25:47.400
haven't valued famous performance so much in this and accepted

537
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:48.299
wisdom has not.

538
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:51.720
And oh, she's not quite the level of an actor as...

539
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:52.500
She's a great actor.

540
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.359
Yeah, I just, yeah, actually.

541
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:56.880
Yeah, she's just pushing the chamber pot uphill.

542
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:57.599
Yes.

543
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.880
We're not going to let those handles go, are we?

544
00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:01.380
I hope not.

545
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:05.039
But like her performance in human nature is amazing because so

546
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:09.960
much of it is about, you know, being out of time being in a place

547
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:14.579
where she has had all of her power taken away from her as a her

548
00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:15.539
colour is forefront.

549
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:16.079
Yes.

550
00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:17.519
And, you know, she's a doctor.

551
00:26:17.579 --> 00:26:20.099
Like she's a trained doctor.

552
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.400
She's, yeah, she's not an idiot as a character.

553
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:27.839
So, yeah, I think I think Davis just ended up writing himself into

554
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:29.160
a hole with that character.

555
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:31.740
And she bore the brunt of that.

556
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:35.220
We'll certainly see some like on the screen back peddling at the

557
00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:36.119
beginning of next season.

558
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:36.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

559
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:40.079
And, I mean, the rumour I heard at the time.

560
00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:43.559
And this has never been substantiated, was that Freema was signed

561
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:44.400
for a year and a half .

562
00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:47.880
And that's why we get here in 3 episodes of Torchwood.

563
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.819
And 3 episodes mid next season.

564
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.119
And in the finale next season as well, she does fine.

565
00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:54.720
Yes, of course.

566
00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:58.740
And one of those 3 episodes, mid next season is terrible.

567
00:26:58.799 --> 00:26:59.579
Terrible.

568
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.700
Well, it just fails in everything it sets out.

569
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:04.559
Poor Georgia Moffatt.

570
00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:05.640
She still has a career.

571
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:09.900
I'm not laying it at Georgia Moffat's feet at Georgia Tennant

572
00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:10.140
now.

573
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:11.220
Yes, that's true.

574
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:14.220
That's another one where she's acting with a character who can't

575
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:14.400
speak.

576
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:17.700
She's doing all the heavy lifting and she's great.

577
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:19.079
The compelling scenes.

578
00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:23.339
I mean, you know, at the end of this season, she says to the

579
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:24.119
doctor she'll be back.

580
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:28.619
You know, they already definitely intend for her to turn up a few

581
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.019
times in series four.

582
00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:35.220
What do we think about John Sims?

583
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.099
We'll talk more of him next week, obviously.

584
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.059
He's insane and I kind of love it.

585
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.759
So what we have, I think, is the lead actor from the other big

586
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:52.079
science fiction television program coming in and threatening to

587
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.420
take over as lead actor of this show.

588
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:57.660
And in 2 episodes time, he will, I think, have successfully done

589
00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:58.140
that.

590
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:03.180
And it's the 1st time I think that the master, since, you know

591
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:06.539
since his introduction in Tariff the Autons, has actually been

592
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.559
sort of properly rethought, and it's where they've worked out what

593
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:11.099
he's for.

594
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:16.319
And the job of the master is to threaten to be more fun than the

595
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:18.420
doctor and more interesting than the doctor.

596
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.539
And, you know, the doctors thing with villains normally is that

597
00:28:21.539 --> 00:28:22.559
he's more fun than them.

598
00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:28.380
And so, you know, the villains are hidebound or boring or limited

599
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:32.460
or have no sense of humour, and the doctor is, by contrast, someone

600
00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:33.720
that we want to spend time with.

601
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:36.539
And what the master has to do.

602
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.319
The master has to plausibly be someone who could be the star of

603
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:40.559
the show.

604
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:44.640
Yeah, I want to ask you, do you believe it's another Dark Russell

605
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.960
which I think is a title on itself, that he is performance coding

606
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:50.400
David Tennant's Stick.

607
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:53.279
Oh, yeah. actually ramping that up and said, quiet to John.

608
00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:55.799
Just take the piss out of danger.

609
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:56.339
Exactly.

610
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.859
Oh, no, absolutely.

611
00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:01.500
I feel that too, because I thought, you're being very naughty here

612
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:02.220
and I like it.

613
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:02.880
Yeah.

614
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:07.440
Yeah, because, I mean, look, all of John Sims appearances in the

615
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.759
role have been very, like, even when he comes back for the end of

616
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.599
the Capaldi thing and is spends most of it doing an insane accent

617
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:20.039
and it's like, yeah, take the Scottish and ramp it up to Eastern

618
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:20.339
Europe.

619
00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:24.059
Put on your eye, shadow, dear.

620
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:27.480
They take it to some like a hot level, don't they, with Tony

621
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:29.640
Curtis doing Greg or the Hungarian Bartler?

622
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:36.839
But it's also because he's usually such a, he doesn't play big

623
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:38.940
crazy parts normally.

624
00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:41.819
He's normally quite internal.

625
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:48.420
So seeing him be this physical and this, you know, vocal and and

626
00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:52.019
energetic is really peculiar, but amazing.

627
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:52.680
Yeah.

628
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:57.059
Something Russell said for the 1st 2 years of Doctor Who, when

629
00:29:57.059 --> 00:29:59.339
Evovery was asked about the master, he's like, no, no, the doctors

630
00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:00.119
have asked the time lies.

631
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:01.619
I've got no interest in bringing back Master.

632
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.779
Look, he wasn't very well handled in the past and da- da.

633
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.619
When on confidential with Simmy, he's like, of course, I was going

634
00:30:07.619 --> 00:30:08.819
to bring back the past.

635
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:13.980
But what he said was, I didn't know how to write for him until I

636
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.559
realised he's totally insane.

637
00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:18.839
Like, like you said, Adam, he's totally insane.

638
00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:21.180
He's a psychopath, possibly a sociopath.

639
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.680
Now I know how to write for him.

640
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:25.680
But also the conscious reflection.

641
00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:28.440
And we've talked about this before, that Delgado was a reflection

642
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:29.759
of pertwig.

643
00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:31.079
Yeah, he's Pertuy only foreign.

644
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:34.019
He's urbane, pretty.

645
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:34.200
Yeah.

646
00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:38.940
Claus of Axos, I think, is the story where the doctor is really

647
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.299
quite irritating and very dull and the master is actually really

648
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:45.240
rather lovely and, you know, he's working with unit and all of

649
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:45.480
that.

650
00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:48.420
And you actually kind of want to watch the master rather than

651
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:49.799
watching Pertu in that story.

652
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:52.140
And I think that Sim gets that.

653
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.160
Yeah.

654
00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:55.619
And another master actor who's gotten that in recent years is

655
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:59.160
Jeffrey Beavers acting on audio with Tom Baker.

656
00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:00.539
Oh, yeah, they're good.

657
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:03.059
Yeah, because they both have mellifluous voices.

658
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:05.880
Yeah, both all voice and very little else.

659
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:10.619
I just listened to Death Match.

660
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.500
I'm way behind on the Tom Baker audience.

661
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:16.799
But yeah, it's got Jeffrey Beaver's in it and he's running this

662
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:20.940
sort of death watch thing from Blake 7 kind of thing.

663
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.619
There's no one called Tarrant, unfortunately.

664
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:23.400
Well, sad.

665
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:26.220
But there's a bit where they're in the master's private box

666
00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:29.460
looking over the arena and there's already been established

667
00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:32.099
there's a bowl of figs and Tom just gives this big speech about

668
00:31:32.099 --> 00:31:33.119
how pointless it is.

669
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:34.380
Oh I give up.

670
00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:37.559
Can I have a fig or don't you give a fig?

671
00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:41.819
And Jeffrey Beaver's just, I don't give a thing.

672
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:47.220
I also loved Alex McQueen up against...

673
00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:49.799
McCoy.

674
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:50.220
Yes.

675
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.279
That is a spectacular pairing.

676
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:57.779
Also, when he's pretending to be the doctor for the 1st, you know

677
00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:00.900
4 or 5 episodes he's in the show is wonderful.

678
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:02.339
Hello you.

679
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.700
I like I did not pick that twist.

680
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:06.599
No.

681
00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:09.599
And if before anyone out there complains about spoilers, this was

682
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.140
like 2011, we're out we're outside the statute of limitations.

683
00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:17.700
But playing the, you know, Carmen Miranda hat of free.

684
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:22.920
Jacoby, again, you're just talking about master of colours.

685
00:32:23.099 --> 00:32:25.079
And one of my favourite things of big finishes, the behind the

686
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:28.980
scenes when they've all been chortling the Sirah all afternoon and

687
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:30.000
sit down.

688
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.880
Jack Jack Billings, I just said, darling, is this the campus thing

689
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:34.140
any of us have ever done?

690
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:39.180
I mean, well, here's this if it wasn't, if it isn't just coming.

691
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:39.900
Look at us.

692
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.359
And he, as he said, he always loves it.

693
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:43.859
And he never pictures it below that.

694
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:44.700
Yeah.

695
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:48.660
That's the, the effective thing about him in this as well, is when

696
00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:51.839
he opens the watch, it is an immediate change.

697
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:56.880
And because he's been so dodtery and almost Peter Cushing in the

698
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:00.359
60s films up until that point, when he turns.

699
00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:05.640
And that kind of moment of fury when he's saying to Chanto, like

700
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:06.960
didn't you ever think?

701
00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:12.480
And then to top it all off, after Chentho kills him, he rails

702
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:13.799
against being killed by a girl.

703
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:16.440
So we're like, okay, not only are you evil, you're sexist.

704
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.339
But I mean, he is racist, an insect.

705
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:25.680
But he's old school, you know, like he reads like a classic series

706
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:27.839
doctor or like a classic series master.

707
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.440
And so, you know, the sexism thing is the same trick that Moffatt

708
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.160
pulls on the 1st doctor in that terrible twice upon a time.

709
00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:39.240
Yeah, it's like arguably more effective here because we're playing

710
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.460
with an archetype rather than playing with an established

711
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:41.940
character.

712
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:42.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

713
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.720
And of course, it's been sort of well rehearsed that when he opens

714
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:49.019
the watch or when he's listening to the watch, you hear.

715
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:55.319
Ainley's laugh and who's, I think it's from the demons, isn't it?

716
00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:56.039
Delgado.

717
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:58.559
Yeah, you speaking to us well. willing to give your power to me.

718
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:01.740
Yeah, which is really, I mean, that's really to mine something

719
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:02.880
cackling.

720
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.099
Teeth clacking.

721
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:09.000
And it is very sweet of them to include Ainley, who I think is

722
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.980
probably pretty terrible as the master.

723
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:15.719
Oh, no, he's great because he's, he is like the same as all the

724
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:16.260
masters.

725
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:21.420
He is the perfect foil. for Davison's doctor, who is a little bit

726
00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:22.559
useless.

727
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:26.099
And so as the master, he's a little bit useless.

728
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:31.440
Did you get the feeling with Ainley that he was playing it for

729
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.800
real, or at least attempting to, and nobody else on set was doing

730
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:35.039
that.

731
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:39.000
Yeah, because, I mean, John Nathan Turner turned it into dancing

732
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.199
with the stars with a plot.

733
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.480
I'm just saying outfits.

734
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:48.239
Yeah, I mean, the thing the thing with Ainley is Sylvester McCoy

735
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.360
has said, anything I only cared about 2 things, cricket and

736
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.019
playing the master.

737
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:52.860
Yeah.

738
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:55.380
And when he wasn't on set playing the master, he was off listening

739
00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:57.239
to his wireless, listening to the cricket.

740
00:34:57.300 --> 00:35:01.199
And so Silver's like, he was the most terrifying man I've ever

741
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:01.559
worked with.

742
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:02.280
It's wonderful.

743
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:04.800
Yeah, and Aldred said the same thing.

744
00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:07.320
He actually was disturbing to be close too because there was that

745
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.519
dissonance.

746
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:09.360
And the wig, obviously.

747
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:10.440
The well, the wig.

748
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:11.400
Who are we talking about now?

749
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:16.860
On one of the new Blu-ray sets. the season 18 set.

750
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:19.500
There's a little bit of convention footage of him.

751
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:24.480
And he's still got a bit of a sardonic edge to him, but it was

752
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:28.619
also clear how much he enjoyed being around fans.

753
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.719
Like he was telling this little anecdote about being a master and

754
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.219
then he slipped into the master boy.

755
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:38.519
I think I've said before that one of the great glories of the

756
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.840
Castra Valver audiobook is Peter Davison's Anthony Alien

757
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:49.139
impression, which had clearly been honed over years and years of

758
00:35:49.139 --> 00:35:50.159
working with him.

759
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.019
It's spectacular.

760
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:52.920
It's absolutely perfect.

761
00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:55.619
We're back onto gnashing of teeth, aren't we?

762
00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:59.760
Well, something I really appreciate about this is tenants gnashing

763
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:03.000
of teeth has actually worked into the narrative by having them

764
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.920
arrive at the gate and having to show their teeth.

765
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:09.239
It's a nice nod back to Billy Piper.

766
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.579
Yes, I mean, yeah, if she'd been in the scene, we wouldn't have

767
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:12.300
been able to see anything.

768
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.300
Those future kind.

769
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:16.920
And we were sort of wondering why they were here.

770
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:20.099
I think that they're borrowed pretty much directly from terminal

771
00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:20.639
aren't they?

772
00:36:20.699 --> 00:36:23.039
The final episode of Blake 7 series 3?

773
00:36:23.099 --> 00:36:26.460
Where they're what humanity evolves into?

774
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:31.199
And one of the, you know, the bleak thing about that episode, which

775
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:34.739
I think we all remember with great fondness.

776
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.440
I remember seeing it for the 1st time, I think when it was being

777
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:38.099
broadcast.

778
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.400
And so you have the liberator destroyed. you have them trapped.

779
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:47.340
We know now, or we're told at least that Blake is dead, um, that

780
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:48.719
Servoland saw him buried.

781
00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:51.900
So the whole thing's gone to hell, but we're now trapped on a

782
00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:55.320
planet where it's not just our heroes that have gone to hell, but

783
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:57.539
the entire human race is going to evolve into this.

784
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.239
And so at the end of the world.

785
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.579
And one of the things that I think this episode does really well

786
00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:07.619
is that sense of a universe that's winding down.

787
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.380
Um, and the sort of savagery that, that, you know, humanity kind

788
00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:14.460
of eventually...

789
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:18.000
It's very, um, end of the Roman Empire, barbarians at the gate

790
00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:20.099
kind of, you know, repeating itself again.

791
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:26.699
And the same with the humanity in the tube trying to, you know

792
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:28.380
survive against the Hun bombings.

793
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:33.599
It's very much like the end is coming and we are holding out hope

794
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:35.400
for who knows what.

795
00:37:35.460 --> 00:37:39.480
And I just found it weird that it seemed like they were being

796
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.440
attacked by an amateur dramatic society.

797
00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:50.519
I think they'd, they'd clearly cast people who brought their own

798
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:52.500
piercings.

799
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:55.860
Yeah, like if you look closely, a lot of people aren't wearing the

800
00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:58.980
prosthetic teeth, they just have really shockingly bad teeth.

801
00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:04.980
But yeah, Paul Mark Davies, who's the lead future kind, and we'll

802
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.380
be the trickster in Sarah James.

803
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.239
Yeah, he was a regular monster.

804
00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:11.280
Yeah, he had to have magnetic piercings or whatnot.

805
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:14.340
There's another guy who's part of the future kind, big bald bloke

806
00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:14.579
I think.

807
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:16.739
All the piercings are his own.

808
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.699
And he was cut specifically because he had piercing. had all these

809
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:21.239
piercings.

810
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:25.380
It was it's the it's the very tidy hair that the main guy has.

811
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:27.719
I'm just like, couldn't you have stuck some dreads on it?

812
00:38:27.780 --> 00:38:28.079
or something?

813
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:32.460
Like did the budget hair budget run out that week?

814
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:35.760
Or did he have to run down and be in the other episode?

815
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:40.559
They're kind of like the goth kids in South Park, aren't they?

816
00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:43.619
Like, you know, it does just feel like dress up.

817
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:48.059
It just, like, on a weird kind of level.

818
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:52.559
It feels like, you know, if the utopians or the people seeking

819
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:57.840
utopia, uh, in the blitz, they're they're boomers down in the

820
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.119
tunnels, and these are punks.

821
00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:04.260
This is the new generation coming to take television away from

822
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:04.739
it.

823
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:10.139
Like it's a weird kind of look that it has, but it's, it just

824
00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:12.480
feels very strange because it looks like there's, you know, here

825
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.800
we are in the 40s in, you know, in these tunnels and then we've

826
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:20.699
got the 70s coming to, Yeah, you know, rip it all away.

827
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:26.039
I don't know why those were chosen for the looks because that's

828
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:26.579
not in the script.

829
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:30.000
So it just ends up being weirdly kind of reactionary.

830
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:30.960
Yeah.

831
00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:35.460
It's obviously a weird production design decision that no one's

832
00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:39.659
made deliberately, but it feels very peculiar to look at.

833
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.800
Like it is a, because yeah, it's, they're obviously just cyphers

834
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:44.699
for both things.

835
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.579
Like they're just like, oh, yes, this is the end of humanity and

836
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:49.679
this is, you know, the teeth people.

837
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:53.460
And it's never really explained what happened to the

838
00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:54.360
conglomeration.

839
00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:55.139
Like that.

840
00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:57.300
Yeah, it just went...

841
00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:00.719
Well, but I think that that's a point too, where when the doctors

842
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.340
ask to explain, he just says, it's time, and the idea is that time

843
00:40:05.340 --> 00:40:08.460
eventually kills all of us, including the whole universe.

844
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:13.019
And so I think just it provides us a way of seeing that, where we

845
00:40:13.019 --> 00:40:15.840
get a, you know, an actual scene where they get to talk about.

846
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:18.599
As opposed to Lookopolis, where it's like, yeah, the entropy's

847
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:18.780
over there.

848
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:38.699
I was just gonna say, with the planet, Mel Casero, in the 1st year

849
00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:41.280
Russell said, we're not going to any alien planets because we

850
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:42.599
don't just want to use a quarry.

851
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.139
We've now had 3 alien planets.

852
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:46.980
And they're all quarries.

853
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:47.579
Yeah.

854
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.119
You know, there's a there's a field in New Earth, but then there's

855
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:53.280
crop tour, which is a quarry.

856
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:57.300
And then there's Malcasero, which is a quarry.

857
00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:00.239
I have to say that it's a really good quarry.

858
00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:03.300
I mean, they Welsh quarries are much better than Macquarry.

859
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:06.599
I don't have Gareth Thomas flouncing around in the first

860
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:07.199
starters.

861
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.260
Oh, well, although it looks like, you know, that Jana's wearing

862
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:11.099
one of his old shirts.

863
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.960
Although obviously they'd have to take it in a little.

864
00:41:19.019 --> 00:41:21.300
I think it's the night shoot.

865
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:23.699
I think it's the fact they can afford a night shoot in a way that

866
00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:26.280
they could rarely do on classic Doctor Who.

867
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:28.619
They're so tedious.

868
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.019
Like, whenever I, yeah.

869
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:33.960
Like, because you start work at sunset and then you finish at

870
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:38.760
sunrise and it is not for like a week to do a half hour episode

871
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.219
and this would be a fortnight probably.

872
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.599
But so yeah, it's...

873
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:43.440
It's not good for anyone.

874
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:46.380
And they've dressed it as well.

875
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:48.420
They just haven't done a quarry.

876
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:53.400
Like there's that very flimsy gate. keeping with a padlock.

877
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.559
Keeping...

878
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:58.139
To be fair, there are some other kinds of defences that do get

879
00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:01.199
switched off and then immediately the future kind break the

880
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:02.940
padlock and get in.

881
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.460
But the whole look of it, you know, in the big trucks and all of

882
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:06.119
that sort of thing.

883
00:42:06.179 --> 00:42:08.760
And I do like the idea that they don't really particularly sort of

884
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:13.440
code it as far future. that that's a decision that the show's been

885
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:18.300
making since it came back that it's going to look dated anyway.

886
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:20.460
So let's make it look recognisable.

887
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:21.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

888
00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:24.480
As opposed to, that's all, wear a silver jumpsuit.

889
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:25.079
Yeah, yeah.

890
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:30.119
Really miss the padded shoulders and wedgies.

891
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:30.360
I know.

892
00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:32.039
Stephen Moffatt will be along soon.

893
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.500
You'll be fine.

894
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:39.599
I want the nappy uniforms of the team that staff in seats of

895
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:39.840
death.

896
00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:41.460
Oh, now you're talking.

897
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.579
I was thinking of the space crew from the web, but what's that 1st

898
00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:47.699
season Blake 7 thing where they've just got these broom handles

899
00:42:47.699 --> 00:42:49.980
and they just poke the portal seaweed.

900
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.679
Yes, SVSV7 Yeah, yeah.

901
00:42:52.739 --> 00:42:53.760
That's SB 7.

902
00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:54.840
Miles Fothergill.

903
00:42:54.900 --> 00:42:57.360
And would, wouldn't he?

904
00:42:57.420 --> 00:42:59.880
And Wyatt Earp.

905
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:01.019
You know, attack.

906
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:06.360
But I kind of like, you know, Doctor Who hasn't always been crazy

907
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:10.800
silver jumpsuits, we had the robots of death, crazy, you know, over

908
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:14.880
the top lunacy. and the whatever they were wearing in the

909
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:15.659
vervoids.

910
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:20.940
That was very 80s active wares.

911
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.800
Civilisation, really.

912
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:24.119
That's right.

913
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:25.500
It's what we've got now.

914
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.739
It is the future because we're all wearing crimpling jumpsuits.

915
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:30.900
It's not what I want.

916
00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:31.679
On a black man.

917
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:34.500
I wish.

918
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:37.800
I just think Janet looks like she's working at boots or

919
00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:38.099
something.

920
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:42.900
Well, that's how she got access to the drugs to kill everyone

921
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:44.639
because Janet is the killer.

922
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:57.360
I like Utopia in spite of itself.

923
00:43:57.420 --> 00:44:02.219
Like there's so much that just doesn't work, but I feel like

924
00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:06.239
there's so many good parts of it, that it, that the coat hanger of

925
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:09.239
a story has some nice clothes on it.

926
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:14.039
I think for me, it has that sort of sense of there's a kind of

927
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:19.019
melancholy about it and I think Graham Harper directs it really

928
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:19.260
well.

929
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:24.360
I think Murray's using sort of some pretty old music cues from

930
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.840
elsewhere in the season, but they are used pretty effectively.

931
00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:32.340
I do like the way that the master is conceived of in the way that

932
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:34.079
he's presented musically as well.

933
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:41.400
And I guess I'm sort of up for an episode that marks time while a

934
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.739
bunch of stuff happens for a while.

935
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:45.179
I don't mind that.

936
00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:16.800
Well, there, listener, that's all we have time for is wait.

937
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:19.679
The master is now Prime Minister of Great Britain, much to

938
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:20.820
everyone's relief, I imagine.

939
00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:24.840
So we'll check in on how he's getting one next week in the sound

940
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:25.559
of drums.

941
00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:29.880
The fun thing is, at this stage, we have no idea who the prime

942
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:31.860
minister of Great Britain is going to be when this goes out.

943
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.659
It's too unalumn.

944
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:36.539
It's Ruth Davidson.

945
00:45:36.539 --> 00:45:40.619
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

946
00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:43.500
and you can keep up with us at Flight 3 Entirety on Facebook at

947
00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:47.880
FDE podcast on Twitter and on our website, flight through Entirety

948
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:51.300
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and

949
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.559
Jody into Terror.

950
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.719
Adam, where can people find you?

951
00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:56.219
Adamricard.com.

952
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:57.300
Excellent.

953
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:57.960
That was easy.

954
00:45:58.019 --> 00:45:58.860
All right.

955
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:00.480
Until next time.

956
00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:03.780
May you find a utopia that hasn't been devised by Russell T

957
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:04.260
Davis.

958
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.360
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

959
00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:07.139
Good night.

960
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.800
Bye.

961
00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:08.760
Good then.

962
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:15.659
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley

963
00:46:15.659 --> 00:46:17.760
Brendan, Jones, Richard Stone, and Adam Richard.

964
00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:20.760
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strength performance by Jane

965
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:21.599
Alberg.

966
00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:24.960
This episode on the set with Dame Derek Jacoby, was recorded on

967
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.440
the 8th of September 2019 and released on the 24th of November.

968
00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:35.219
Here at FDE, we celebrated Doctor Who Day by nipping back in time

969
00:46:35.219 --> 00:46:38.099
50 years, and deleting the Celestial Toymaker part 4.

970
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:41.099
So, next time we catch up, drinks are on you.

971
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:48.119
I think he had made it known that it had been a longtime

972
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:48.599
ambition.

973
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:52.260
It used to appear on Doctor Who and Coronation Street. has he

974
00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:53.579
achieved the Coronation Street one?

975
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:54.300
He has not.

976
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:56.400
Has he come into Xena Sharples?

977
00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:58.079
Long lost it.

978
00:46:58.139 --> 00:46:59.280
Because I really want to.

979
00:46:59.340 --> 00:46:59.639
Oh, yeah.

980
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:02.760
Well, you know Maureen Lippman, who we talked about last time I

981
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:04.800
was on this show, is now in Coronation Street.

982
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:05.340
No.

983
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:09.000
So 3 times it's a big finish spinoff.

984
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:13.679
And isn't Phil Collinson now producing Coronation Street?

985
00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:14.639
Oh, he was for a while.

986
00:47:14.699 --> 00:47:15.300
Has he gone back?

987
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:16.019
don't know.

988
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:19.079
Because he was in charge of it during the 50th anniversary when

989
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:21.480
the tram fell off the aqueduct into the shop.

990
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.920
In a devastating live episode.

991
00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:28.800
It was honoured by Skyfall.

992
00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:33.780
Why does that make me think of that episode of South Park when a

993
00:47:33.780 --> 00:47:37.139
scriptwriting department gets their plots from a bunch of dew

994
00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:40.380
gongs in a pool with words written on balls?

995
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:46.139
like, Oh, they were mad. off the bridge. into the shop.

996
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:48.539
No, it was a live episode.

997
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:53.400
So they had to, it had to be all dramatic. the one before the tram

998
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:56.760
falls off the bridge into the shop and then it was a lot of is old

999
00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:58.739
mate going to be pulled out from under the tram in time.

1000
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:02.519
Everything's a Brexit metaphor.

1001
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:07.559
The 50th is a long, it was like, oh, it was the 50th anniversary.

1002
00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:08.699
Like it was ages ago.

1003
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:10.019
The Doctor Who one.

1004
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.900
It was like 2012, I think.

1005
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:13.619
Gosh.

1006
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.599
So yeah, Collinson might have gone back.

1007
00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:16.619
Maybe he's the EP now.

1008
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:17.099
Who knows?

1009
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:23.760
Well, on that topic, Derek Jacoby actually grabbed Phil Collins

1010
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:27.840
and while he was shooting on the TARTA set and said, what a

1011
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:28.559
fantastic set.

1012
00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:30.300
Do you watch Coronation Street?

1013
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:36.539
Because don't you reckon the TARDIS is like the knicker factory?

1014
00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:40.559
It's got gantries and everything and it never used to be that

1015
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:40.860
big.

1016
00:48:41.099 --> 00:48:43.920
What is a sauce pot, isn't it?

1017
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:47.880
The knicker factory has grown substantially over time.

1018
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:51.480
Underworld, it's called.

1019
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:52.500
Underworld.

1020
00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:58.380
Oh, God.

1021
00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.659
How did we get onto coronation?

1022
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.400
We all indoors.

1023
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:05.579
Diana Daws and Alan Lake used to hold naughty parties there and

1024
00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:06.300
there, didn't they?

1025
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:07.860
Oh, yes. in the underworld.

1026
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:10.260
Underwear world, yeah, underwear world.

1027
00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:13.079
It all comes back to Diana Dawes and Alan.

1028
00:49:13.139 --> 00:49:15.179
Like, they're going to be our arc words for next season.

1029
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:18.300
They're the Saxon.

1030
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.900
It actually means that our last episode next season can't be

1031
00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:22.619
broadcast.

1032
00:49:22.739 --> 00:49:26.340
So but he had played the master before, had he not?